iPhone Ultra Imminent, M6 Mac mini, Instagram’s New Teen Restrictions

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Good morning. And in case I don't see ya,

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good afternoon, good evening, and good
night.

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Welcome to Primary Technology,

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the show about the tech news that matters.

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It is iPhone season. Apple has announced
the iPhone event for September 9th.

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We're gonna get into what to expect,

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They also released new Macs, including a
Mac Studio up to 20 grand,

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or you can lease it. Also a new Mac Mini
with a brand new M6 chip.

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Apple Maps finally has ads. Meta had to
settle a lawsuit and instill

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a bunch of restrictions for teenagers.

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OpenAI released their report on the
hugging face breach and a ton more.

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This episode is brought to you by Framer,

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Copilot Money, and you, the members who
support us directly.

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I'm one of your hosts, Steven Robles,

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joined by my friend Jason Ayton.

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How's it going, Jason?

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It's it's good. It's good. Do you have
that whole thing memorized every time when

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you do that whole thing? No, you just do
it off the cuff,

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No, no. I do it off the cuff. That's why I
have to edit it sometimes 'cause

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everything. ~ that's right. Okay.

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I just yeah.

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I'm literally scrolling our outline and
deciding what to say as I'm saying it.

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In real time. You have a

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In real time.

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real time processing unit in your head.

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You're running a real time operating
system just like ~ you you've got an

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I got the ram I got more RAM than the Mac
Studio.

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That's what it is. The R the R one.

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R one chip going in your head just I

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Did we ever get it to R two in the Vision
Pro?

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I don't think the five version has an R2.

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No, it's the same it's the same archip.

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We only ever got one. Anyway, what

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So anyway.

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do you know what movie the opening quote
was from?

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Shirley.

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I know it's the

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Jim Carrey one where he lives in a bubble.

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What is it the tr Truman show?

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Yes, yes. That's it. Yes. It was the
Truman it was the Truman show.

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Is that what it's called? Why are you
laughing?

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Because he l well,

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Like I said something weird. He lives in a
bubble.

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A, it's not a bubble. I mean it was a sure
a dome of a fake city.

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It's literally a bubble. Metaphorically

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Yeah, so I guess I guess it's that.

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and physically, he's living in a bubble.

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Fair enough, fair enough.

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Okay.

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Excellent movie. I feel like very apropos
for t ahead of its time we'll say.

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But I said that bec Yes.

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It's both the worst and best

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role Jim Carrey's ever played.

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It's the least Jim Carrey Jim Carrey

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Right.

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role, but also he did an amazing job.

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Exactly that. And I did the good morning
thing because Apple's tagline

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for the event is surprise and shine,

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which I think is it's interesting.

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And we

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will not be hearing good morning.

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No, that's the thing too, Tim I'm I have
it in the outline.

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Tim Cook is CEO for like two more days as
this episode drops.

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Because September first, we're gonna turn
up.

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Sorry. I'm I apologize to everyone.

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I'm so sorry. Please

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Please don't unsubscribe and or leave us
anything but a five-star review.

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You can leave a

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five-star review and tell us how lame that
joke was,

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but

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Thank

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you very much. And listen, we are two
thank you for that transition.

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We are two five star reviews away from
five hundred.

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So if you leave us a five star even review
and but here I have something specific

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because Jason and I are gonna argue
vehemently in the personal tech segment

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at the end of this episode. We're gonna
argue about what makes an app whimsical.

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And I I have some strong thoughts.

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I th we already disagree. You texted me
something that ju I couldn't even sleep
last

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night. I just laid awake staring at the
ceiling,

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thinking about how much I'm gonna tear
into this opinion.

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That you have.

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We also disagree

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about the pronunciation of that word.

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Wait, vehemently? ~ vehemently.

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That's not how you say it. Yeah,

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Vehement.

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thank you. Okay.

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Anyway, emphasis.

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The first one

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sounds like somehow you were throwing up a
very dry substance.

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V V Man Le anyway, leave us two.

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We need two more files. Lee tell me what
app that you use on your Apple devices

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or your Android devices that you feel ha
is a whimsical,

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has that like spirit of whimsy in it.

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We're gonna talk about that in personal
tech.

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But thank you for a five star review from
Lynn Gassaway from the USA.

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Found us through Mac Power Users.

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Welcome, welcome to this show.

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It's the MP universe, the primary tech u
PTU.

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I don't know. Merlin's got the MPU,

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the Merlin Podcast Universe. I we gotta
figure out something.

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For us, I think. I don't know.

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Universe of apps. Anyway, and podcast
seven to eight sent us a question.

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Do any of you have YouTube Premium?

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Yes, I have YouTube Premium.

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Yeah. Who d it does re it's a requirement.

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Listen, you're

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gonna be able to get peacock through
YouTube Premium pretty soon.

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That's later in the show.

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I don't I don't

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care about that part. I just ~ just prefer
to avoid all the ads.

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I like if I would give up I'd give up
Disney Plus before I gave up.

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I'd give up YouTube T V before I gave up
YouTube Premium.

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Listen, we're gonna talk about ads when we
get to Apple Maps.

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And I I just well, I'll save it.

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I'm gonna save that. Apple Maps have ads.

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And one last thing, listener Chris sent me
this photo,

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the medieval knight riding the polar bear
on a walk in Virginia on

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the Green Springs interpretive trail.

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So there you go. Our mid our ~ nights
making it everywhere.

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now listen, we've we've talked about in
the last few episodes our apps.

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We always save it to the end of the show.

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And so before we get into all the Apple
stuff,

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which is the event and the new Macs and
everything,

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just wanted to let everybody know,

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hey, we made we made some apps and I think
we're pretty proud of them.

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So tell me about your app, because you
actually got to write about it.

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Yeah, well I mean I have two. Everybody
knows about Contexly.

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If you if you want a simple notes app that
also syncs your calendar

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and uses Apple intelligence to surface
action items and then you can send them

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to your to do apps. That that's when it's
been around,

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it's great. I continue working on it,

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continue updating it. There's a huge
update coming out once they release the,

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you know, iOS twenty seven and macOS
twenty seven.

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Yeah.

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Other than that, there won't be,

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you know, a lot of apps. It's available in
the app store,

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both on the Mac and the App Bot.

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And then I sat around like trying to solve
a problem that I've had forever,

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which is I hate paying Adobe money.

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That's one of my problems. And

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Yes.

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I really miss Aperture. I have missed
Aperture for twelve years.

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Same. Yes.

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And

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so I thought one day, I wonder if I could
recreate this an app in

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the spirit of Aperture. Now, I don't know
if you know,

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but it's been twelve years, which means
there were a lot of things that could

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be improved on from where we left off with
Aperture.

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So

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Yes.

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I tried to create

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an app, ~ quad code helped me do it.

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It looked no no no lie there. But it I
did.

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It took me about a week of pretty intense
work to get a minimum viable product

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and it's had a bunch of updates.

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It's on version one point five.

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I did have the problem of releasing it and
asking people to test it

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and calling it version one point and I'm
like,

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it's not how that's supposed work.

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Zero point eight or whatever.

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One point

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is supposed to be like boom minimum
minimum viable product it's out there.

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This is it. Yeah.

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But one point

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five was that product but

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There is a release notes page.

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You can see all of the things that I've
added to it over the time.

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I think if you you have to click on
support and then there's a link

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for the release notes. But I I would
encourage people if you are looking

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for an alternative, ~ go up to the top and
then click on the release notes tab.

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See, there you go. Okay.

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gotta gotta go.

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But if you're looking for an alternative
to ~ app to Lightroom or Capture

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One or any of those things, the goal here
was it had to be lightning fast,

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super, super, super fast for calling
things,

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and then it had to also have

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All of the standard tools. Now,

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this is gonna get a pretty big update when
macOS 27 comes out as well,

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because ~ the Apple has introduced RAW
nine.

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~ it's currently RAW eight, but there'll
be a lot better.

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The the pipeline is getting a lot better
with RAW 9.

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And I spent a lot of time watching
developer sessions.

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Steve, I think I sent you a text message.

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Fancy. Yeah, yeah, you are, yeah.

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Yes. And

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learning about what's actually happening.

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Cause I kind of want to know what my app
is doing.

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I don't want to just tell Claude to do
things.

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And so, but

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Right.

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I tried to make it feel

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Very much like a native Mac app.

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some people are like, well, then it
shouldn't be in dark mode all the time.

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I'm like, here's the thing, if it's a
photo app,

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if what you're trying to do is determine
exposure and color,

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you don't want

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Right.

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a lot of extraneous other stuff around.

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So that's why it's

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Exactly.

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like that. I know Aperture was Chrome,

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like Chrome colored, but that's that.

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Yeah, but it's twenty twenty six.

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So but

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Yeah, no.

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you can download it for free and use it
for seven days,

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and then if you want it, you can buy a
license.

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There's no subscription, the license

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That's right.

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will work forever.

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It's fifty percent off if you use the code
launch fifty.

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This episode, by the way, is sponsored by
Element.

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Launch fifty. Launch fifty

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It is? Wait a minute. I gotta send an
invoice.

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when you buy it. ~ yeah, it's great.

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Very

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cool. It's a great app. I've had it,

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been using it, and I don't take a lot of
photos.

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Like I'm not in the photography world
right now,

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but I used Aperture all the time and it is
very reminiscent,

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albeit better, because it's actually new
and like you have all the new stuff.

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Yep. Yeah.

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And I will say, my I don't know if this it
was out last episode,

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but Stash is out. My new app for quickly
saving things like text,

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links, photos, gifts, and files,

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and putting them back on your clipboard.

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It has great shortcuts, actions.

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It is free to download.

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And then if you like it and you want to
save more than 10 things,

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it's a $3 one-time in-app purchase,

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no subscriptions. That's stash.

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And here's where I really need help.

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If you are a member of Primary Technology
and you support the show,

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there's a link down in the show notes to
download the test flight beta of Can Do,

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00:08:25,297 --> 00:08:28,498
my task app. And if you have been using
Can Do,

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I have version 1.3. It's ready and
approved in the App Store.

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00:08:32,890 --> 00:08:34,351
I just have to click a button and it goes
out.

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But there's big change to being able to
save large attachments to tasks in Kandu.

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And I added search in Kandu. So you can
search all your tasks,

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00:08:43,335 --> 00:08:45,496
including archived and completed tasks.

242
00:08:45,496 --> 00:08:48,337
And so those are two big changes that
changed kind of a lot

243
00:08:48,337 --> 00:08:49,757
of underlying structure of the app.

244
00:08:49,757 --> 00:08:51,318
And so I would love your help.

245
00:08:51,318 --> 00:08:54,619
If you're on Kandu 1.2 anything,

246
00:08:54,619 --> 00:08:57,939
go to the test flight beta. You can join
for free.

247
00:08:57,939 --> 00:09:00,830
Upgrade to 1.3 and then shoot me an email.

248
00:09:00,830 --> 00:09:02,321
The email is also in the show notes,

249
00:09:02,321 --> 00:09:03,321
just for members.

250
00:09:03,587 --> 00:09:04,587
And

251
00:09:03,877 --> 00:09:06,459
let me know ~ how it goes and if there's
any bugs.

252
00:09:06,459 --> 00:09:08,720
And if you could if you no rush,

253
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,152
but if you could do it in the next couple
days,

254
00:09:10,152 --> 00:09:11,643
because I really want to release it before
the weekend.

255
00:09:10,954 --> 00:09:12,251
But if you could go do it right now,

256
00:09:11,643 --> 00:09:13,864
I didn't know I just

257
00:09:12,251 --> 00:09:13,729
pause the show and go do it.

258
00:09:13,924 --> 00:09:16,836
I want to get it out before the weekend
because a lot of ~ I had

259
00:09:16,836 --> 00:09:19,527
so much great feedback from people saying
they love can do,

260
00:09:19,527 --> 00:09:20,999
they're using it for their projects,

261
00:09:20,999 --> 00:09:24,661
they have it open on their Mac all day and
large attachments was a holdup

262
00:09:24,661 --> 00:09:27,513
for some people, and I want to be able to
to release that soon.

263
00:09:27,513 --> 00:09:29,895
So try the test flight, update to 1.3,

264
00:09:29,895 --> 00:09:32,797
let me know how it goes, that your stuff
is still good.

265
00:09:33,223 --> 00:09:34,816
And then I'll release it widely.

266
00:09:34,816 --> 00:09:36,408
So thanks for that. Yeah, check out all
our apps.

267
00:09:36,408 --> 00:09:38,181
There's a little section in the show notes
for everybody,

268
00:09:38,181 --> 00:09:40,205
links to all of the apps that we make.

269
00:09:40,205 --> 00:09:43,069
We there's like four apps now between us
that I feel like we've made.

270
00:09:43,069 --> 00:09:46,165
That's pretty crazy. A couple of years
from now we might be like legit
developers,

271
00:09:46,165 --> 00:09:47,515
Jason. I'm just

272
00:09:47,396 --> 00:09:48,396
Okay.

273
00:09:48,018 --> 00:09:50,749
Don't undersell us, man. We're doing we're
doing good work.

274
00:09:49,970 --> 00:09:51,090
No, I know, but I'm thinking

275
00:09:51,090 --> 00:09:52,721
I there are times where I'm like,

276
00:09:52,721 --> 00:09:55,471
man, I just want to move this thing a
couple pixels,

277
00:09:55,471 --> 00:09:57,772
and I'd rather just dive into the like if
I knew how to just dive into

278
00:09:57,772 --> 00:10:00,513
the code and move this thing a couple
pixels,

279
00:10:00,513 --> 00:10:03,773
I would do that. Yeah, somebody exactly.

280
00:10:00,830 --> 00:10:01,830
Like a cursor.

281
00:10:04,394 --> 00:10:09,295
All right, Apple officially kicked off
iPhone season earlier this week.

282
00:10:09,295 --> 00:10:12,346
Tuesday, they announced the new event.

283
00:10:12,346 --> 00:10:14,796
September ninth is the next Apple event.

284
00:10:14,796 --> 00:10:16,567
You know, Apple doesn't say it's the
iPhone event,

285
00:10:16,567 --> 00:10:17,567
but we all know it's the iPhone event.

286
00:10:18,301 --> 00:10:20,302
The tagline is Surprise and Shine,

287
00:10:20,302 --> 00:10:23,305
happening September 9th at 1 p.m.

288
00:10:23,305 --> 00:10:27,287
Eastern, 10 a.m. Pacific. That's all Apple
has told us.

289
00:10:27,287 --> 00:10:29,189
That's it. Surprise and shine event.

290
00:10:29,189 --> 00:10:33,022
There is some interesting translations in
other languages.

291
00:10:33,022 --> 00:10:34,623
A lot of people try to read the tea
leaves.

292
00:10:34,623 --> 00:10:38,315
We won't do a lot of that. But if you look
at in every country,

293
00:10:38,315 --> 00:10:41,618
the invite has slightly different words.

294
00:10:41,618 --> 00:10:46,161
And it seems like the PR people in
responsible for that country gets to write
it.

295
00:10:46,577 --> 00:10:48,568
And in China and in a couple other
countries,

296
00:10:48,568 --> 00:10:51,720
the translation could be something like a
new chapter.

297
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,832
And people were saying, well,

298
00:10:54,832 --> 00:10:57,344
foldable phone, like a book chapter.

299
00:10:57,344 --> 00:11:00,396
It's coming. Okay, like relax.

300
00:11:00,396 --> 00:11:04,108
Okay. Like let's see. We only got less
than two weeks till the event.

301
00:11:04,108 --> 00:11:06,389
And the event is on a Wednesday,

302
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:09,391
which typically iPhone events are on a
Tuesday,

303
00:11:09,391 --> 00:11:11,763
but it's a Labor Day week, and so they
pushed it a couple days.

304
00:11:12,259 --> 00:11:14,341
And I feel like we haven't really talked
about this.

305
00:11:14,341 --> 00:11:15,530
We probably should talk about it on the
pre-show.

306
00:11:15,530 --> 00:11:17,533
But I think we'll just do our normal
episode that week.

307
00:11:17,533 --> 00:11:20,465
Because it'll be if we did a special
episode,

308
00:11:20,465 --> 00:11:22,176
then we would have another episode like
the next day.

309
00:11:22,176 --> 00:11:23,176
And so we

310
00:11:22,569 --> 00:11:23,569
Right.

311
00:11:23,143 --> 00:11:26,189
we can have we can have ~ not hot takes.

312
00:11:26,189 --> 00:11:28,701
We can have well thought, steeped takes.

313
00:11:29,022 --> 00:11:30,290
Marinated takes.

314
00:11:30,522 --> 00:11:34,174
Thank you. Marinated takes. So they it's
exciting though.

315
00:11:34,174 --> 00:11:36,446
I'm excited. ~ what to expect?

316
00:11:36,446 --> 00:11:38,237
I'll put this 905 Mac article in there,

317
00:11:38,237 --> 00:11:40,409
but of course the iPhone 18 Pro and Pro
Max

318
00:11:40,850 --> 00:11:44,123
Everyone's saying the first foldable phone
that it's coming.

319
00:11:44,123 --> 00:11:47,477
Mark German talked about how people
internal at Apple are having really good

320
00:11:47,477 --> 00:11:50,660
experiences in it. Surprise and shine
again is the tagline.

321
00:11:50,660 --> 00:11:52,241
I don't know, percentage wise,

322
00:11:52,241 --> 00:11:56,726
Jason, how convinced are you we're getting
a foldable iPhone in less than two weeks?

323
00:11:57,684 --> 00:12:01,677
Hmm. Well, I think it's a hundred percent
that we're getting a foldable iPhone.

324
00:12:01,677 --> 00:12:03,058
Well,

325
00:12:02,025 --> 00:12:03,025
really? Okay.

326
00:12:03,058 --> 00:12:04,960
hold on. That we're getting a foldable
iPhone.

327
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:06,621
That it's coming at this event,

328
00:12:06,621 --> 00:12:09,123
I would put it at about eighty percent.

329
00:12:09,123 --> 00:12:12,466
I think it's possible they could do it at
a later date.

330
00:12:12,466 --> 00:12:13,466
I've

331
00:12:12,828 --> 00:12:14,909
There's some rumors that the supply is so
limited.

332
00:12:14,909 --> 00:12:15,909
Then but

333
00:12:15,401 --> 00:12:16,401
Sure.

334
00:12:15,779 --> 00:12:19,010
I mean also this is when they talk about
their this is when they have

335
00:12:19,010 --> 00:12:21,461
all the attention, and it's when they
introduce the flagships.

336
00:12:21,461 --> 00:12:24,523
So that's why I th I don't think it's much
lower than eighty percent that

337
00:12:24,983 --> 00:12:27,324
I think there is an a foldable iPhone at
this point.

338
00:12:27,324 --> 00:12:30,565
Seems like I mean Mark Gurman is literally
reporting what people think of it.

339
00:12:30,565 --> 00:12:33,038
Like literally people who've used it.

340
00:12:30,757 --> 00:12:33,259
I know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

341
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,443
So some of the main upgrades, just to
cover some rumors,

342
00:12:37,443 --> 00:12:39,605
variable aperture main camera,

343
00:12:39,605 --> 00:12:43,588
which you know, anytime you would adjust
the aperture like the F stop

344
00:12:43,708 --> 00:12:48,052
on your iPhone camera, it's a digital or
virtual F stop and blurring.

345
00:12:48,052 --> 00:12:52,236
And so this might actually be a physical
variable aperture main camera.

346
00:12:52,236 --> 00:12:57,160
Smaller dynamic island, Apple's C two
cellular modem might make its debut

347
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:58,400
in an iPhone.

348
00:12:58,621 --> 00:13:01,663
Which we've not like the iPhone Pro Max
right now,

349
00:13:01,663 --> 00:13:04,454
like the seventeen, still doesn't have
Apple's cellular modem.

350
00:13:04,454 --> 00:13:08,447
~ that was just in the iPhone Air and then
in the iPads with cellular.

351
00:13:08,447 --> 00:13:12,869
So we might actually get Apple's cellular
modem in the main flagship phones.

352
00:13:12,869 --> 00:13:14,930
And then the iPhone Ultra or Fold.

353
00:13:14,930 --> 00:13:17,052
Apple Watch Series twelve and Ultra Four,

354
00:13:17,052 --> 00:13:21,594
very likely. And you know, wildcards could
be AirPods Five.

355
00:13:21,594 --> 00:13:25,076
Not pros, but it may be just the AirPods
Five.

356
00:13:25,076 --> 00:13:26,076
And

357
00:13:27,197 --> 00:13:30,454
You know, a lot of people saying the Apple
T V and HomePod that those

358
00:13:30,454 --> 00:13:33,410
are on the horizon. I'm feeling like it's
gonna be an October event kind

359
00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:35,525
of year and we might see those things in
October.

360
00:13:35,525 --> 00:13:36,525
What do you

361
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,993
I mean there is a rumor there's gonna be
an October event and that that will

362
00:13:38,993 --> 00:13:39,993
be the MacBook Pros.

363
00:13:41,277 --> 00:13:44,787
That too. Like the scary fast and other
MacBook events.

364
00:13:44,787 --> 00:13:45,787
And we

365
00:13:44,978 --> 00:13:45,978
And I don't

366
00:13:45,511 --> 00:13:49,252
think they've been introduced AirPods at a
in a in a MacBook Pro event.

367
00:13:50,253 --> 00:13:53,114
No. So it probably AirPods this event.

368
00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:55,906
Or just a press release. Or do either this
event or a press release.

369
00:13:53,114 --> 00:13:55,115
~ yeah.

370
00:13:56,036 --> 00:13:57,636
That's true. And honestly well,

371
00:13:57,636 --> 00:14:01,508
the MacBook Pro is rumored to be like the
new redesigned maybe body with

372
00:14:01,508 --> 00:14:05,590
an OLED screen. And that MacBook Pro is
going to very difficult to resist.

373
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:06,590
I will just say that.

374
00:14:06,634 --> 00:14:10,544
It's just so strange 'cause we d we
already got MacBook Pros this year.

375
00:14:11,214 --> 00:14:12,497
We did get it earlier this year,

376
00:14:12,497 --> 00:14:13,497
but we have

377
00:14:12,847 --> 00:14:15,282
an six chip out here now, which we're
gonna get to.

378
00:14:15,282 --> 00:14:16,734
The six is now in the Mac mini.

379
00:14:16,734 --> 00:14:19,831
And I I think we're gonna see some press
releases even before the event

380
00:14:19,831 --> 00:14:21,564
for like six I Mac, maybe?

381
00:14:22,078 --> 00:14:23,808
Wha before the ninth?

382
00:14:24,368 --> 00:14:26,463
Maybe. Yeah. I mean

383
00:14:26,463 --> 00:14:27,956
we got a press release earlier this week,

384
00:14:27,956 --> 00:14:29,119
like the day before

385
00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:29,350
Yeah,

386
00:14:29,119 --> 00:14:30,119
the event.

387
00:14:29,911 --> 00:14:33,634
I think that they would have just ~ they
would have or if they were coming before

388
00:14:33,634 --> 00:14:35,875
the iPhone event, I think they would have
come al already.

389
00:14:35,875 --> 00:14:39,408
I don't think they're gonna c keep
stacking Macs up unless they really

390
00:14:39,408 --> 00:14:41,490
are gonna do a Mac event and but even
then,

391
00:14:41,490 --> 00:14:45,996
like if they're gonna do a ~ MacBook Pro
event in October,

392
00:14:45,996 --> 00:14:46,996
then and they're

393
00:14:46,312 --> 00:14:47,312
Rether.

394
00:14:46,793 --> 00:14:47,954
gonna release an i Mac or whatever,

395
00:14:47,954 --> 00:14:50,746
I don't think they I don't think anyone at
Apple knows they still make the iMac.

396
00:14:50,746 --> 00:14:51,947
Let's just be completely honest.

397
00:14:51,947 --> 00:14:55,270
Like but it never got an five.

398
00:14:52,156 --> 00:14:55,097
But they'll stick the M6 in chip and then
we'll see a newsroom article.

399
00:14:55,738 --> 00:14:58,349
That's what I'm saying. And the Mac Mini
didn't have the five either.

400
00:14:58,349 --> 00:14:59,349
So they went

401
00:14:59,135 --> 00:15:00,135
True.

402
00:14:59,419 --> 00:15:02,011
four to six for the Mac Mini and maybe the
i Mac.

403
00:15:02,011 --> 00:15:04,102
But anyway, we're gonna cover it right
here.

404
00:15:04,102 --> 00:15:05,742
~ it'll be on the show that week.

405
00:15:05,742 --> 00:15:08,804
September ninth is the event. I'm gonna
try and get a recap video out

406
00:15:08,924 --> 00:15:12,125
~ very soon after. Neither of us are going
physically to the event.

407
00:15:12,125 --> 00:15:13,396
You know, just inside baseball,

408
00:15:13,396 --> 00:15:17,678
the iPhone event is a much smaller invite
group.

409
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:20,231
Because the event is held in the Steve
Jobs Theater.

410
00:15:20,231 --> 00:15:23,251
It is nothing like WWDC where there's just
a lot more people invited.

411
00:15:23,251 --> 00:15:25,705
So me and Jason will be covering it from
the comfort of our own home,

412
00:15:25,705 --> 00:15:27,186
which honestly makes it easier to cover.

413
00:15:27,186 --> 00:15:29,848
And ~ you know, all that.

414
00:15:29,490 --> 00:15:30,490
I might actually

415
00:15:30,151 --> 00:15:31,342
be covering it from New York City,

416
00:15:31,342 --> 00:15:34,115
but that's fine. Yeah. We'll see.

417
00:15:32,157 --> 00:15:36,262
really? What I mean, d is that something
you wanna you wanna share what what's

418
00:15:34,115 --> 00:15:38,410
I can't really talk about it. But I might
be going

419
00:15:36,262 --> 00:15:38,338
happening? you came with well that's
interesting.

420
00:15:38,410 --> 00:15:40,783
to an event. It's always weird to me when
people schedule things.

421
00:15:40,783 --> 00:15:42,475
They're like, Don't you know the iPhone
events that day?

422
00:15:42,475 --> 00:15:44,568
And then I'm like, Well, I probably going
to the iPhone event,

423
00:15:44,568 --> 00:15:45,829
so I'll come to your thing instead.

424
00:15:46,502 --> 00:15:47,502
Okay,

425
00:15:46,842 --> 00:15:48,193
it should be all right. We'll hear more
about that.

426
00:15:48,193 --> 00:15:51,044
But September ninth, it is iPhone season.

427
00:15:51,044 --> 00:15:54,105
I'm excited. I'm excited. I still get
excited for the Apple events

428
00:15:54,145 --> 00:15:55,265
and what they're gonna announce.

429
00:15:55,265 --> 00:15:57,626
And this will be the first, you know,

430
00:15:57,626 --> 00:16:00,287
really big form factor change for the
iPhone in a long time.

431
00:16:00,287 --> 00:16:02,938
And it feels like, man, is this really
gonna happen?

432
00:16:02,938 --> 00:16:04,909
But yeah, iPhone fold. iPhone fold.

433
00:16:04,909 --> 00:16:07,690
Apple did release new Macs officially too
earlier this week,

434
00:16:07,690 --> 00:16:11,031
new Mac Studio and Mac Mini, and man,

435
00:16:11,031 --> 00:16:12,232
are they expensive.

436
00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:15,921
So Mac Studio is updated.

437
00:16:15,921 --> 00:16:20,122
Previously, you could only get the M4 Max
and M3 Ultra,

438
00:16:20,122 --> 00:16:22,023
which was always kind of a weird paradigm
to me.

439
00:16:22,023 --> 00:16:27,604
But now you can get the M5 Max and M5
Ultra in the Max Studio,

440
00:16:27,604 --> 00:16:32,686
and you can upgrade it to a lot of RAM and
a lot of storage.

441
00:16:32,686 --> 00:16:36,127
The most RAM, 512, is not available yet.

442
00:16:36,127 --> 00:16:40,998
512 gigs of unified memory in the Mac
Studio will be available in October.

443
00:16:41,352 --> 00:16:42,352
So you have to wait a little bit.

444
00:16:42,324 --> 00:16:44,488
But let's just do some configuring here,

445
00:16:44,488 --> 00:16:47,954
Jason. Let's see what we got. Starts at
twenty five hundred bucks.

446
00:16:47,984 --> 00:16:51,202
I don't understand this game. This is this
is the only thing I ever

447
00:16:51,202 --> 00:16:54,962
see threads post about is you cannot buy a
twenty thousand dollar Mac studio.

448
00:16:54,962 --> 00:16:57,318
I'm like, So what? Mm-hmm.

449
00:16:56,721 --> 00:16:57,721
I mean that's

450
00:16:57,744 --> 00:17:02,905
listen, it's expensive. The thing ~ the
only thing I wanna Yeah,

451
00:17:00,232 --> 00:17:02,593
Go ahead. I w I mean I wouldn't mean to
discourage you.

452
00:17:02,593 --> 00:17:04,924
I just meant it's just a funny it's just

453
00:17:02,905 --> 00:17:04,489
thanks for your put yuckin' my yum over
here.

454
00:17:04,489 --> 00:17:05,489
Yeah, whatever.

455
00:17:04,924 --> 00:17:10,385
a very funny th like every like this is
the thing that everyone I it's not like
the

456
00:17:08,634 --> 00:17:10,349
I know. The most expensive thing.

457
00:17:10,385 --> 00:17:14,477
it's it's not like any not it's not that
no one is going to buy this.

458
00:17:14,477 --> 00:17:15,907
Some people will actually buy this.

459
00:17:15,907 --> 00:17:18,068
They will not be posting about it on
threads.

460
00:17:18,068 --> 00:17:23,049
Let's just be honest. I would not post

461
00:17:19,258 --> 00:17:20,641
If I had bought one I would have,

462
00:17:20,641 --> 00:17:21,641
but I did not.

463
00:17:23,049 --> 00:17:25,050
about this on threads if I spent that much
money on.

464
00:17:25,092 --> 00:17:28,495
Yeah, that's true. So here's the what's
interesting to me about

465
00:17:28,495 --> 00:17:32,178
it configuration is what is available with
what configs.

466
00:17:32,178 --> 00:17:37,412
For instance, if you wanted to get the
five Max chip and the base model,

467
00:17:37,412 --> 00:17:40,064
which is 18 core CPU, 32 core GPU,

468
00:17:40,064 --> 00:17:44,368
you have one RAM option, which is 36 gigs
of RAM.

469
00:17:44,368 --> 00:17:48,811
And that's unfortunate. If you want to get
like 64 gigs of RAM,

470
00:17:48,811 --> 00:17:54,556
you have to update to the five Max higher
core CPU and GPU.

471
00:17:54,983 --> 00:17:55,983
And

472
00:17:55,093 --> 00:17:56,233
I understand this is like binning.

473
00:17:56,233 --> 00:17:57,674
You know, when Apple makes chips,

474
00:17:57,674 --> 00:18:01,506
some chips, some of the cores are not
active,

475
00:18:01,506 --> 00:18:04,477
and so that just goes to the lower tiers.

476
00:18:04,477 --> 00:18:08,878
But you do have to upgrade if you want to
upgrade the RAM,

477
00:18:08,878 --> 00:18:10,969
you do have to also upgrade the CPU.

478
00:18:10,969 --> 00:18:13,200
So it is kind of like a double pricing
upgrade.

479
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,782
You know, it's not just like, $2,500 plus
the RAM cost.

480
00:18:16,782 --> 00:18:18,542
Depends on the RAM you want to get.

481
00:18:18,542 --> 00:18:22,464
If you want to do that, you have to
upgrade $300 for the CPU GPU.

482
00:18:22,780 --> 00:18:25,561
And then you get up to 128 gigs of RAM
option.

483
00:18:25,561 --> 00:18:30,182
Now, this would be my config. I'm gonna
just I'm just curious.

484
00:18:30,182 --> 00:18:31,302
I actually didn't do this yet.

485
00:18:31,302 --> 00:18:37,364
My current M4 Max Max Studio is 128 gigs
of memory,

486
00:18:37,364 --> 00:18:42,685
eight terabyte SSD, and the most ~ you
know,

487
00:18:42,685 --> 00:18:44,066
cores that I could have got at the time.

488
00:18:44,066 --> 00:18:47,697
$5,099 for the M5 Max version,

489
00:18:47,697 --> 00:18:51,238
which is actually not too far off what I
paid,

490
00:18:51,238 --> 00:18:52,238
I don't think.

491
00:18:52,634 --> 00:18:56,202
So you know, you got more config options
than you did a couple of weeks ago.

492
00:18:56,202 --> 00:18:57,424
We'll just say that. And you get

493
00:18:57,054 --> 00:18:58,054
Yeah.

494
00:18:57,424 --> 00:18:59,348
up to sixteen terabyte SSD if you want.

495
00:18:59,348 --> 00:19:01,914
And that's what brings it to twenty
thousand if you want to do that.

496
00:19:02,408 --> 00:19:05,121
But I mean for three hundred cause this is
the same as the MacBook Pro,

497
00:19:05,121 --> 00:19:06,342
but for three hundred dollars,

498
00:19:06,342 --> 00:19:10,746
you do get the faster the more GPUs and it
now goes to forty-eight gigs

499
00:19:10,746 --> 00:19:13,178
of memory by default. So you are getting
both an increase.

500
00:19:13,178 --> 00:19:14,860
You don't have to do the two things
separately.

501
00:19:14,860 --> 00:19:18,984
You are getting more memory and more GPUs
automatically.

502
00:19:18,984 --> 00:19:21,356
And then if you want to upgrade your
memory from there,

503
00:19:21,356 --> 00:19:23,398
yes, going from an the

504
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:27,956
eighteen whatever thirty version to the
eighteen forty and going from thirty

505
00:19:27,956 --> 00:19:30,759
two to sixty four is like a seven hundred
dollar increase,

506
00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:32,121
which is just a lot of money.

507
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,922
and I totally misspoke. It's nine thousand
dollars.

508
00:19:35,922 --> 00:19:38,084
The top of the page doesn't

509
00:19:37,195 --> 00:19:38,195
~

510
00:19:38,084 --> 00:19:41,507
update when you config. 5099 is the
starting point.

511
00:19:41,066 --> 00:19:42,842
'Cause that's just the available price,

512
00:19:41,507 --> 00:19:43,218
That is the

513
00:19:42,842 --> 00:19:43,842
yeah.

514
00:19:43,218 --> 00:19:46,900
available price. If you get the 128 gigs
of RAM and the eight terabyte

515
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:51,083
SSD that I have, the final price of that
Mac Studio is $9,000,

516
00:19:51,083 --> 00:19:53,575
which is several thousand dollars more
than what I paid.

517
00:19:53,575 --> 00:19:57,648
And I did check my trade in. If I trade in
my current Mac Studio,

518
00:19:57,648 --> 00:19:59,449
Jason, did you see what I posted?

519
00:19:59,449 --> 00:20:00,449
Did you already know the number?

520
00:19:59,836 --> 00:20:00,836
I did,

521
00:20:00,228 --> 00:20:01,228
I saw this.

522
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,724
Okay, I would get like two thousand
dollars.

523
00:20:02,724 --> 00:20:05,371
Not enough for me to upgrade, I'll tell
you that.

524
00:20:05,371 --> 00:20:06,695
And I had a bunch of people on threads
being like,

525
00:20:06,695 --> 00:20:08,209
I'll give you two thousand dollars for
that.

526
00:20:07,804 --> 00:20:08,804
Yeah, absolutely.

527
00:20:08,209 --> 00:20:09,209
It's like

528
00:20:08,665 --> 00:20:10,473
I will I will bring it to you right now.

529
00:20:10,473 --> 00:20:13,513
'Cause it has eight terabytes and one
hundred and twenty eight gigs.

530
00:20:13,116 --> 00:20:14,116
That's right. And

531
00:20:13,607 --> 00:20:14,846
a hundred and twenty eight gigs of RAM.

532
00:20:14,846 --> 00:20:15,846
Yeah. No.

533
00:20:15,646 --> 00:20:16,646
That

534
00:20:15,908 --> 00:20:18,204
Ram by itself is worth four thousand
dollars.

535
00:20:17,864 --> 00:20:18,864
I know.

536
00:20:18,445 --> 00:20:20,690
Not selling. Not selling ever.

537
00:20:20,690 --> 00:20:21,702
I'm holding on.

538
00:20:21,490 --> 00:20:22,490
No,

539
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,014
I would sell it, but I would just sell it
for eight thousand dollars or whatever.

540
00:20:24,290 --> 00:20:27,522
Well, sure. Sure. Yeah.

541
00:20:25,014 --> 00:20:27,137
No, I'll give six thousand dollars.

542
00:20:27,783 --> 00:20:30,024
So what's interesting is you so that
config,

543
00:20:30,024 --> 00:20:33,747
like my config right now, $9,000 if you
want to buy the M5 Max version.

544
00:20:33,747 --> 00:20:37,089
I have zero motivation upgrade because
also iPhone fold is going to

545
00:20:37,089 --> 00:20:40,711
be $2,000 next month and probably you have
to buy one of those.

546
00:20:40,711 --> 00:20:43,613
So you can buy it for $9,000. But guess
what,

547
00:20:43,613 --> 00:20:46,615
Jason? You can lease, you can lease Max
now.

548
00:20:46,615 --> 00:20:48,417
You can lease this Max Studio,

549
00:20:48,417 --> 00:20:51,959
my config, but an M5 Max for $180 a month.

550
00:20:51,959 --> 00:20:53,100
Now

551
00:20:53,766 --> 00:20:55,497
Here's here's the thing. Okay.

552
00:20:55,497 --> 00:20:57,718
Here's the here's the math that people be
doing.

553
00:20:57,718 --> 00:21:02,890
I I did a video recently where I talked
about how much I had to spend to

554
00:21:02,890 --> 00:21:07,322
fix my vibe coded app. Okay. And in that
video,

555
00:21:07,322 --> 00:21:11,484
I revealed that across Claude and ChatGPT
and extra tokens,

556
00:21:11,484 --> 00:21:15,605
I spent about a thousand dollars making
Kandu right.

557
00:21:15,605 --> 00:21:19,367
Just getting it work, working properly
with iCloud Sync.

558
00:21:19,367 --> 00:21:21,676
Now, if

559
00:21:22,286 --> 00:21:28,782
You had a Mac Studio that could do local
LLMs that were really good at coding,

560
00:21:28,782 --> 00:21:31,484
so you didn't have to pay anybody for
tokens.

561
00:21:31,484 --> 00:21:37,549
Technically, maybe you could justify
leasing something

562
00:21:37,549 --> 00:21:42,673
for $400 a month, which is the maxed out
Mac Studio with like 256 gigs

563
00:21:42,673 --> 00:21:46,947
of RAM right now, rather than paying for
tokens to Claude or ChatGPT.

564
00:21:46,947 --> 00:21:49,559
Now, I don't know if those local LLMs,

565
00:21:49,559 --> 00:21:50,559
which are not

566
00:21:50,888 --> 00:21:53,729
Claude and ChatGPT. I don't know if
they're as good at coding.

567
00:21:53,729 --> 00:21:56,160
I don't know what kind of experience that
is.

568
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,552
I'd love to test Apple if you're
listening.

569
00:21:58,552 --> 00:22:00,933
I will test it if you'd like. I'll vibe
code another app.

570
00:22:00,933 --> 00:22:02,934
If if you want me to test that.

571
00:22:02,934 --> 00:22:06,035
But some people might justify,

572
00:22:06,035 --> 00:22:08,816
like, well, rather than pay Anthropic or
OpenAI,

573
00:22:08,816 --> 00:22:12,638
I will just lease a Mac Studio that does
LLMs locally.

574
00:22:12,638 --> 00:22:14,519
One could say that.

575
00:22:15,144 --> 00:22:16,635
No, I don't think anyone would say that.

576
00:22:16,635 --> 00:22:19,237
I don't I don't think that

577
00:22:17,455 --> 00:22:18,455
One could.

578
00:22:19,237 --> 00:22:22,499
I mean, first of all, your situation was
completely atypical.

579
00:22:22,499 --> 00:22:26,943
In your situation, Sam Altman was sitting
there with Chat GPT spinning it around,

580
00:22:26,943 --> 00:22:30,865
making it dizzy a million times just
because it it didn't do anything.

581
00:22:30,865 --> 00:22:34,588
All all of that money was just paid as a w
like literally it was flushing

582
00:22:34,588 --> 00:22:36,690
the money down the drain. Yes.

583
00:22:35,301 --> 00:22:36,391
You talking about my situation?

584
00:22:36,693 --> 00:22:38,603
But sync works now. So I don't know,

585
00:22:38,603 --> 00:22:40,491
I can't think you could say it does.

586
00:22:38,996 --> 00:22:40,968
But you had to give it back to Claude to
fix it.

587
00:22:41,620 --> 00:22:44,002
Not like all the underlying architecture.

588
00:22:44,002 --> 00:22:47,307
It fixed like small bugs after ChatGPT
went through it.

589
00:22:47,026 --> 00:22:48,026
Okay,

590
00:22:47,448 --> 00:22:52,483
well let me just say this. I have the
exact same sync situation incontexly

591
00:22:52,905 --> 00:22:54,409
and I spent less than a hundred dollars.

592
00:22:55,943 --> 00:22:58,986
Sure. Okay. I don't know if it's exactly
the same though.

593
00:22:58,986 --> 00:23:01,018
No

594
00:22:59,645 --> 00:23:00,721
It's exactly the same.

595
00:23:01,018 --> 00:23:02,980
neither of us are developers. Like we
can't look at the code and say,

596
00:23:02,980 --> 00:23:04,141
yeah, this is the exact same thing.

597
00:23:04,434 --> 00:23:06,868
No, what I'm saying is I solved the
problem for one tenth the price.

598
00:23:06,868 --> 00:23:09,212
So what I'm saying is that your situation

599
00:23:08,335 --> 00:23:09,401
You're assuming we have the same

600
00:23:09,401 --> 00:23:11,735
problem though. I don't I don't assume
that.

601
00:23:12,926 --> 00:23:15,130
The problem was things weren't syncing
with CloudKit.

602
00:23:15,269 --> 00:23:17,023
But there's so many variables to that.

603
00:23:17,023 --> 00:23:18,023
You can't say

604
00:23:17,257 --> 00:23:18,257
No.

605
00:23:17,564 --> 00:23:20,321
like, well synced with broke. It's the
same for every apple who synced is broke.

606
00:23:20,594 --> 00:23:22,770
Yes. Cloud Kit works the same for
everybody.

607
00:23:22,770 --> 00:23:24,705
You have a schema of d fields.

608
00:23:23,377 --> 00:23:24,971
But there's so many the

609
00:23:24,971 --> 00:23:27,858
schema could be so different. There could
be so many different fields.

610
00:23:27,902 --> 00:23:29,725
Those are just words in a database line.

611
00:23:30,361 --> 00:23:32,011
You gotta know what the words mean.

612
00:23:32,603 --> 00:23:33,603
What what I'm saying

613
00:23:33,503 --> 00:23:36,105
is like fix it okay. Just trust me on
this.

614
00:23:36,105 --> 00:23:37,105
That it did it

615
00:23:36,615 --> 00:23:37,615
Mm-hmm.

616
00:23:37,055 --> 00:23:39,306
should not have taken a thousand dollars
to fix that app.

617
00:23:39,306 --> 00:23:43,519
It is just not it is no that app is no
more complicated than contextly.

618
00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:46,090
It is just JSON files, right?

619
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:52,234
Mm mm. I'm not gonna pretend I know what's
underneath the hood and I don't

620
00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:50,472
Stored in Cloud Kit, sending information
back and forth.

621
00:23:50,472 --> 00:23:57,026
Okay. I I spent a lot of times learning
what that stuff was.

622
00:23:52,234 --> 00:23:53,234
I don't think you know either,

623
00:23:53,210 --> 00:23:54,361
but I'll let you believe you do,

624
00:23:54,361 --> 00:23:55,503
and so yeah, it's the same thing.

625
00:23:55,503 --> 00:23:57,626
Okay.

626
00:23:57,026 --> 00:23:58,026
I all I'm saying

627
00:23:57,716 --> 00:24:01,778
is like it's not typical because an app
the size of your app or my app

628
00:24:02,034 --> 00:24:04,605
Should not should not take a thousand
dollars to fix the sink.

629
00:24:04,605 --> 00:24:06,684
That's all I'm trying to say.

630
00:24:04,817 --> 00:24:06,712
First sure. And I

631
00:24:06,712 --> 00:24:11,785
did not use codex properly. Like putting
it on Sol five point six Ultra

632
00:24:11,785 --> 00:24:12,785
was a mistake.

633
00:24:12,764 --> 00:24:15,416
Also, listeners, correct me if I'm wrong.

634
00:24:15,416 --> 00:24:20,381
There's no scenario where apps that are
this simple sh should require codex

635
00:24:20,381 --> 00:24:22,523
to run for like eighty hours just spinning
its wheels,

636
00:24:22,523 --> 00:24:25,346
right? Okay.

637
00:24:22,951 --> 00:24:24,942
Yeah, and a bunch of people on social
media told me that.

638
00:24:24,942 --> 00:24:25,942
Like

639
00:24:25,353 --> 00:24:26,875
it's do it's it's not doing it right.

640
00:24:26,875 --> 00:24:28,626
And so I should have changed it.

641
00:24:28,626 --> 00:24:31,419
But also Claude couldn't fix it.

642
00:24:31,419 --> 00:24:34,341
Even I spent hours asking it to,

643
00:24:34,341 --> 00:24:36,844
and like doing all the things,

644
00:24:36,844 --> 00:24:39,325
telling it what was wrong, sending it
back.

645
00:24:39,325 --> 00:24:42,039
And you could say maybe I didn't have the
right incantation to tell it

646
00:24:42,039 --> 00:24:44,231
how to fix it, but I think that's the
point.

647
00:24:44,231 --> 00:24:45,282
Like I didn't know how to fix it,

648
00:24:45,282 --> 00:24:46,873
and so I needed it to figure out how to
fix it.

649
00:24:46,873 --> 00:24:49,005
And Claude couldn't, at least for my

650
00:24:48,786 --> 00:24:49,786
You

651
00:24:49,076 --> 00:24:51,458
should have called your friend who's done
who had to go through this,

652
00:24:50,983 --> 00:24:52,550
And what would you say? Hey, fix it
better?

653
00:24:51,458 --> 00:24:53,460
man. No, I would

654
00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:55,326
have told you exactly what Claude did.

655
00:24:55,326 --> 00:24:56,943
Cause then you could

656
00:24:55,661 --> 00:24:56,661
Yeah, but even

657
00:24:56,943 --> 00:24:58,614
have just asked it to do that.

658
00:24:58,614 --> 00:25:04,679
Alright. Alright. The price is going up,

659
00:24:59,265 --> 00:25:01,476
Anyway, can do is it works great now.

660
00:25:01,476 --> 00:25:04,598
Sync is great. Love it. And maybe I'm
gonna try.

661
00:25:04,598 --> 00:25:07,710
Yeah, I'm it's could become a
subscription,

662
00:25:04,679 --> 00:25:06,040
by the way. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.

663
00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:08,710
$30 a month.

664
00:25:08,620 --> 00:25:11,922
~ so I might get a you Mac Studio local
LMs.

665
00:25:11,922 --> 00:25:14,103
Or listen, you can also get a Mac Mini.

666
00:25:14,103 --> 00:25:15,804
What's sad about the Mac Mini,

667
00:25:15,804 --> 00:25:19,186
it was starting at $5.99 last year.

668
00:25:19,186 --> 00:25:23,068
You could get an M4 Mac Mini, which was an
amazing deal.

669
00:25:23,068 --> 00:25:27,650
That's why everyone bought one who wanted
to run AI stuff and have their agents

670
00:25:27,650 --> 00:25:28,650
running on a computer.

671
00:25:28,922 --> 00:25:29,943
Everybody was buying the Mac Mini.

672
00:25:29,943 --> 00:25:33,775
Well, it starts at $900 now. So starting
price $900.

673
00:25:33,775 --> 00:25:38,578
It has been updated to either the M6 or
the M5 Pro.

674
00:25:38,578 --> 00:25:39,905
So a bit of a discreet, you know,

675
00:25:39,905 --> 00:25:42,561
not the same ~ family of chips.

676
00:25:42,561 --> 00:25:48,004
The M6 is the first two nanometer process
chip that Apple has released,

677
00:25:48,004 --> 00:25:52,227
which they say is four times faster than
the M4,

678
00:25:52,227 --> 00:25:54,659
which is wild. The M6 versus the M4,

679
00:25:54,659 --> 00:25:56,390
which was the last chip in the Mac Mini.

680
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:58,321
So, you know, you're getting a

681
00:25:58,577 --> 00:25:59,577
powerful

682
00:25:58,977 --> 00:26:02,990
computer, but it is $300 more than it used
to be.

683
00:26:02,990 --> 00:26:06,743
And of course you can upgrade it to the M5
Pro with RAM and storage and they

684
00:26:06,743 --> 00:26:09,625
can get very expensive. But but it's also
nice that you have this option.

685
00:26:09,625 --> 00:26:12,978
And honestly the M5 Pro for a lot of
people would probably be

686
00:26:12,978 --> 00:26:15,680
the computer that could last them a long
time.

687
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,374
Like if you do video editing, you're in
just final cut and compressor

688
00:26:18,374 --> 00:26:20,243
and you're not doing a bunch of like 3D
animation.

689
00:26:20,243 --> 00:26:23,706
A Mac Mini with an M5 Pro, it's gonna be
pretty sweet.

690
00:26:23,706 --> 00:26:24,706
Even and the M6 too.

691
00:26:25,478 --> 00:26:27,949
Yeah, I think we've we are now at the
point though where things

692
00:26:27,949 --> 00:26:30,658
are too confusing for people. Because
well,

693
00:26:29,895 --> 00:26:30,895
You think it's too confusing?

694
00:26:30,658 --> 00:26:32,031
I've had several people ask me,

695
00:26:32,031 --> 00:26:34,522
like this just happened when it was
released.

696
00:26:34,522 --> 00:26:38,023
So I need a new Mac Mini and you haven't
been able to buy one for months.

697
00:26:38,023 --> 00:26:40,445
Like you just haven't been able to get one
anywhere.

698
00:26:40,445 --> 00:26:43,246
And they're like, I was gonna get the four
pro,

699
00:26:43,246 --> 00:26:44,246
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

700
00:26:44,196 --> 00:26:45,867
Which one should I buy? I should buy the
six,

701
00:26:45,867 --> 00:26:47,568
right? Numbers bigger must be best.

702
00:26:47,568 --> 00:26:50,969
But that's not true at all. The five Pro
will smoke the six.

703
00:26:50,969 --> 00:26:52,700
Right? Like it will.

704
00:26:52,131 --> 00:26:53,131
in certain

705
00:26:52,992 --> 00:26:56,338
things. Single threaded.

706
00:26:53,810 --> 00:26:55,181
In what things won't it smoke it?

707
00:26:55,181 --> 00:26:59,603
~ checking your email? Checking your
email.

708
00:26:56,338 --> 00:26:59,443
Single threaded yeah, single threaded
activities.

709
00:26:59,443 --> 00:27:00,935
Which is what a lot of people do.

710
00:26:59,603 --> 00:27:01,983
Okay. No, but what I'm saying

711
00:27:00,935 --> 00:27:01,935
That's the thing.

712
00:27:01,983 --> 00:27:06,215
is like if you're saying I need I was
going to buy the four pro version,

713
00:27:06,215 --> 00:27:09,457
I should just buy the six 'cause it's
bigger number.

714
00:27:09,457 --> 00:27:13,999
I'll I just think for most people now it's
getting like a little

715
00:27:13,999 --> 00:27:15,470
bit confusing because if you're saying the

716
00:27:15,047 --> 00:27:16,047
Yeah, it is.

717
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:19,241
six is the better one, how come the five
Pro is twice as expensive then?

718
00:27:19,241 --> 00:27:20,552
Like it it's just confusing

719
00:27:19,867 --> 00:27:20,867
Yeah.

720
00:27:20,552 --> 00:27:21,552
for people.

721
00:27:21,816 --> 00:27:22,816
I agree.

722
00:27:21,916 --> 00:27:22,916
Also, it

723
00:27:22,397 --> 00:27:26,626
is a crime that the six starts at nine
hundred dollars and it comes with

724
00:27:26,626 --> 00:27:28,982
two hundred and fifty six gigs of storage.

725
00:27:29,719 --> 00:27:33,781
That, yeah, 16 gigs of RAM and then 250.

726
00:27:33,781 --> 00:27:36,262
that is rough. 256 SSD.

727
00:27:35,048 --> 00:27:37,427
That is just ouch.

728
00:27:37,463 --> 00:27:39,554
That's that's not right. I mean,

729
00:27:39,554 --> 00:27:41,025
I understand with the RAM Mageddon,

730
00:27:41,025 --> 00:27:43,036
they want it to be 899, you know,

731
00:27:43,036 --> 00:27:44,907
well under a thousand. Not well under,

732
00:27:44,907 --> 00:27:47,228
but a little under thousand. A little

733
00:27:45,961 --> 00:27:47,211
A little bit under a thousand.

734
00:27:47,228 --> 00:27:49,709
bit under a thousand. I will say so the
M6,

735
00:27:49,709 --> 00:27:52,230
it's a 12 core CPU, 12 core GPU,

736
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:56,132
dual 16 core neural engine, which is one
of the other improvements,

737
00:27:56,132 --> 00:27:59,084
dual neural engine. But when you go to the
M5 Pro chip,

738
00:27:59,524 --> 00:28:01,315
You can get up to an 18 core CPU,

739
00:28:01,315 --> 00:28:04,545
20 core GPU. And again, those cores for
tasks,

740
00:28:04,545 --> 00:28:06,976
like if you're doing video LLMs,

741
00:28:06,976 --> 00:28:10,777
then the more cores are gonna get you
faster performance for rendering,

742
00:28:10,777 --> 00:28:12,836
or if you're editing in Final Cut and you
know,

743
00:28:12,836 --> 00:28:14,158
you don't wanna wait a bunch of time.

744
00:28:14,158 --> 00:28:17,009
That's what that's for. You know what our
friend Nate actually asked

745
00:28:17,009 --> 00:28:20,197
me a question the other day. I'm curious
what you would what you would because this

746
00:28:20,197 --> 00:28:26,602
is more your realm. He said he was talking
to somebody who has an older Mac and

747
00:28:27,128 --> 00:28:29,860
Nate sent him a file that was like a very
large Photoshop file.

748
00:28:29,860 --> 00:28:32,723
It's because it's for a very large banner
that they're gonna print.

749
00:28:32,723 --> 00:28:38,548
And so it's huge resolution. It's like a
hundred and fifty DPI or whatever,

750
00:28:38,548 --> 00:28:42,751
pixels per inch. And when he goes to open
it on the old Mac,

751
00:28:42,751 --> 00:28:45,413
like it just hangs forever. It takes
forever to open the file.

752
00:28:45,413 --> 00:28:47,266
And then to do make any changes,

753
00:28:47,266 --> 00:28:48,386
you have to wait a bunch of time.

754
00:28:48,386 --> 00:28:51,979
Like it takes forever. What would you
recommend for someone with that particular

755
00:28:51,979 --> 00:28:55,031
problem who needs to open really large
graphic files,

756
00:28:55,031 --> 00:28:56,031
maybe for print?

757
00:28:56,536 --> 00:28:59,437
In today's landscape now with the new Mac
Mini Mac Studio,

758
00:28:59,437 --> 00:29:02,690
what would you recommend as the computer
for them to get?

759
00:29:04,554 --> 00:29:07,484
I mean I my default answer for all that is
just buy a MacBook Pro.

760
00:29:07,484 --> 00:29:08,769
Right?

761
00:29:08,634 --> 00:29:09,634
But if

762
00:29:08,806 --> 00:29:11,457
you were gonna get a desktop like in the
desktop realm right now.

763
00:29:11,732 --> 00:29:13,065
Well then definitely a Mac mini.

764
00:29:13,065 --> 00:29:15,472
I would not recommend a Mac Studio for
that kind of thing.

765
00:29:15,472 --> 00:29:16,976
And get forty eight gigs of memory.

766
00:29:16,976 --> 00:29:17,976
Like

767
00:29:17,378 --> 00:29:18,378
Is

768
00:29:17,568 --> 00:29:21,306
and it's the memory that has more to do
with that kind of like large

769
00:29:20,682 --> 00:29:21,682
Yeah, I mean, but

770
00:29:21,352 --> 00:29:26,136
the here's the thing, like even in a Mac
swap is these SSDs are fast enough

771
00:29:26,136 --> 00:29:28,197
to swap is mostly fine as well.

772
00:29:28,197 --> 00:29:31,059
Like on anything currently. If you're
using a spinning hard drive,

773
00:29:31,059 --> 00:29:33,371
no, swap is gonna suck. It's not not a
good

774
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:33,610
Right, right.

775
00:29:33,371 --> 00:29:34,837
idea. But at this point it's not a
problem.

776
00:29:34,837 --> 00:29:36,873
But also, just to be clear, well,

777
00:29:36,873 --> 00:29:38,455
whatever, I don't want to diagnose the
specifics.

778
00:29:38,455 --> 00:29:41,527
I just had to do a situation where you had
to I had to send a high resolution thing

779
00:29:41,527 --> 00:29:42,527
to be off to be printed.

780
00:29:43,141 --> 00:29:47,024
And the maximum unless it is literally the
size of a of a billboard,

781
00:29:47,024 --> 00:29:48,323
but even if it's the size of a billboard,

782
00:29:48,323 --> 00:29:50,666
it's gonna be viewed for so far away that
typically it's just a hundred

783
00:29:50,666 --> 00:29:53,858
and fifty DPI and ~ whatever. So like

784
00:29:54,899 --> 00:29:56,370
you you don't have to send a Photoshop
file.

785
00:29:56,370 --> 00:29:57,471
You can just make that a JPEG.

786
00:29:57,471 --> 00:30:00,424
You can even send a PNG or you can send a
layered PF PDF.

787
00:30:00,424 --> 00:30:01,424
But anyway,

788
00:30:00,655 --> 00:30:01,655
Yeah, yeah.

789
00:30:01,184 --> 00:30:03,526
a Mac Mini with forty eight gigs of
memory.

790
00:30:03,526 --> 00:30:06,749
And in that case you don't necessarily
need a huge hard drive,

791
00:30:06,749 --> 00:30:08,680
right? Because like you're just storing

792
00:30:07,543 --> 00:30:08,543
Right, right.

793
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,572
things locally and then passing things
through.

794
00:30:10,572 --> 00:30:12,613
But you're probably gonna want like a
terabyte just to be safe.

795
00:30:12,730 --> 00:30:18,128
But is the it is the unified memory
specifically that plays into working with

796
00:30:18,128 --> 00:30:19,754
a large graphics file with like

797
00:30:19,326 --> 00:30:20,326
Yeah, because it's

798
00:30:19,838 --> 00:30:22,158
just gotta hold it into memory in order to
send it to the printer.

799
00:30:22,158 --> 00:30:23,158
Yeah.

800
00:30:22,254 --> 00:30:23,254
Right. And

801
00:30:23,044 --> 00:30:24,215
what Jason was saying, like swap,

802
00:30:24,215 --> 00:30:26,116
if you're not if you don't don't
understand what swap is,

803
00:30:26,116 --> 00:30:30,348
if your Mac or your any computer hits the
memory cap,

804
00:30:30,348 --> 00:30:33,010
like your forty eight gigs of unified
memory,

805
00:30:33,010 --> 00:30:35,141
you're using it all trying to do this
file,

806
00:30:35,141 --> 00:30:41,365
the Mac will then use whatever SSD space
is available as local like RAM,

807
00:30:41,365 --> 00:30:45,137
as memory. And when you have a really fast
SSD with really fast read

808
00:30:45,137 --> 00:30:49,109
and write speeds, you can do that and it
won't feel super slow once

809
00:30:49,109 --> 00:30:51,180
it goes into that swap configuration.

810
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,334
But if you have spinning hard drive or in
a slow SSD that might be fr

811
00:30:55,334 --> 00:30:57,736
in an older Mac, if you hit that swap,

812
00:30:57,736 --> 00:30:58,883
then you're gonna get like, you know,

813
00:30:58,883 --> 00:31:01,639
I gotta wait three minutes for this file
to load,

814
00:31:01,639 --> 00:31:03,701
basically, and any change I wanna make.

815
00:31:03,701 --> 00:31:04,701
So

816
00:31:04,210 --> 00:31:08,018
Yeah, and I think it's interesting because
the Macs are good enough

817
00:31:08,018 --> 00:31:10,634
at this that there are times when you're
like,

818
00:31:10,634 --> 00:31:12,809
why it'll use swap.

819
00:31:13,550 --> 00:31:16,211
Even when you're like, I don't think it
needs to right now,

820
00:31:15,866 --> 00:31:16,866
Right.

821
00:31:16,211 --> 00:31:20,103
but it's fast enough for so many things
that it's reserving like

822
00:31:20,103 --> 00:31:23,165
the physical memory for things that need
to be faster.

823
00:31:23,165 --> 00:31:24,165
Because like

824
00:31:23,386 --> 00:31:24,386
Right.

825
00:31:23,785 --> 00:31:26,026
if you just open activity monitor and
you're like,

826
00:31:26,026 --> 00:31:31,949
why am I using eleven gigs of swap right
now when I have thirty-two gigs

827
00:31:31,949 --> 00:31:35,160
on this MacBook Air and I'm only using
twenty-six gigs of memory?

828
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,971
It's like, why am I also using eleven gigs
of swap?

829
00:31:36,971 --> 00:31:39,722
It's because it's like, well, some of that
stuff is probably just like

830
00:31:39,722 --> 00:31:42,253
one of these browser tabs that were open.

831
00:31:42,253 --> 00:31:43,253
It's like it doesn't

832
00:31:42,555 --> 00:31:43,555
Right.

833
00:31:43,014 --> 00:31:44,014
need to be fast.

834
00:31:43,605 --> 00:31:45,828
It's just like it's swap is more than fast
enough,

835
00:31:45,828 --> 00:31:48,663
but if I'm editing a photo or if I'm
whatever,

836
00:31:48,663 --> 00:31:51,298
like recording this podcast or whatever,

837
00:31:50,372 --> 00:31:51,831
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

838
00:31:51,298 --> 00:31:52,298
then it's gonna

839
00:31:51,879 --> 00:31:53,411
assign that to the physical memory.

840
00:31:53,411 --> 00:31:54,411
So

841
00:31:53,913 --> 00:31:56,785
Right. So anyway, there's new Macs out
there.

842
00:31:56,785 --> 00:31:58,346
You know, if you're looking to upgrade,

843
00:31:58,346 --> 00:32:01,267
you can't lease a Mac Mini, which is an
interesting point.

844
00:32:01,267 --> 00:32:03,449
You know, you can lease an Apple Watch,

845
00:32:03,449 --> 00:32:05,830
but you can't lease a Mac Mini,

846
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:07,501
which feels strange. You know,

847
00:32:07,501 --> 00:32:09,832
it seems like, maybe Apple's doing it via
price tiers,

848
00:32:09,832 --> 00:32:13,594
but apparently not. and you also can't
lease an iMac.

849
00:32:13,594 --> 00:32:17,597
And so there's a weird thing. You can
still do Apple card financing,

850
00:32:17,597 --> 00:32:19,368
but not

851
00:32:19,242 --> 00:32:20,242
Do you think it's

852
00:32:19,368 --> 00:32:20,368
leasing.

853
00:32:19,823 --> 00:32:24,619
because they're actually trying to limit
the number of people who might

854
00:32:24,250 --> 00:32:25,250
Leasing?

855
00:32:24,619 --> 00:32:26,432
be interested in in getting it?

856
00:32:26,432 --> 00:32:28,084
Like they're trying to like

857
00:32:29,074 --> 00:32:32,476
They are there's too many people who would
lease these things and stick them into

858
00:32:32,596 --> 00:32:34,547
farms and they don't maybe it's kinda

859
00:32:34,011 --> 00:32:35,011
Hm.

860
00:32:34,547 --> 00:32:39,480
like the reason your your car only when
you lease it you get ten thousand miles

861
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,391
and you have to pay more if you want
twelve thousand miles and you can

862
00:32:41,391 --> 00:32:43,002
get a super high mileage lease if you want
to,

863
00:32:43,002 --> 00:32:45,583
but you gotta pay a whole lot more is
because it depreciates is it like,

864
00:32:45,583 --> 00:32:50,556
if you're just gonna stick this in a
server bin and render L L stuff all the
time,

865
00:32:50,556 --> 00:32:52,487
we don't want it bad. You can't lease
that.

866
00:32:52,487 --> 00:32:54,989
Don't let it I don't know, like by the
way,

867
00:32:53,060 --> 00:32:55,288
Yeah. I'm not sure.

868
00:32:54,989 --> 00:32:55,989
do you know what

869
00:32:55,409 --> 00:32:57,160
a maxed out Mac mini costs now?

870
00:32:58,150 --> 00:33:01,826
~ eighteen thousand dollars. Yeah.

871
00:33:00,402 --> 00:33:01,833
A Mac Mini, not a

872
00:33:01,833 --> 00:33:06,768
Mac no it's it is six thousand seven
hundred dollars for a Maced out Mac Mini.

873
00:33:05,712 --> 00:33:10,985
okay. But because the what's what's the
memory on that?

874
00:33:06,768 --> 00:33:09,291
But that is insane. You might as well get
a studio.

875
00:33:09,291 --> 00:33:12,554
F sixty four gigs, that's all you can get.

876
00:33:10,985 --> 00:33:12,816
Yeah,

877
00:33:12,816 --> 00:33:15,328
see that's the thing. Yeah, you would I
would go Mac Studio if you're gonna

878
00:33:15,328 --> 00:33:17,029
be spending that much. And I also
misspoke.

879
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:18,910
Apparently you can lease an iMac.

880
00:33:18,910 --> 00:33:20,891
So you can lease a MacBook Air,

881
00:33:20,891 --> 00:33:23,653
MacBook Pro, i Mac, and Mac Studio,

882
00:33:23,653 --> 00:33:25,884
but inexplicably not a Mac Mini.

883
00:33:25,884 --> 00:33:27,895
And so that I do feel like that lends to
your theory.

884
00:33:27,895 --> 00:33:30,957
Maybe it's they just don't want a bunch of
people sticking these in server farms.

885
00:33:30,957 --> 00:33:32,578
And so maybe that's why.

886
00:33:32,082 --> 00:33:33,082
Yeah. Burning

887
00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:34,031
them up and then sending them back.

888
00:33:35,066 --> 00:33:37,049
That is true, that is true.

889
00:33:36,638 --> 00:33:38,508
They're just trying to control the
depreciation.

890
00:33:39,172 --> 00:33:41,175
Interesting. So yeah, you can lease an I
Mac.

891
00:33:41,175 --> 00:33:45,932
You can also lease an Apple Watch all the
way from Apple Watch Siri you can you can

892
00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:46,620
Bro, you

893
00:33:45,932 --> 00:33:48,451
can lease a polishing cloth. You just
can't lease a Mac Mini.

894
00:33:48,782 --> 00:33:49,782
You

895
00:33:48,982 --> 00:33:51,745
can lease the Apple Watch Hermes.

896
00:33:51,745 --> 00:33:57,680
You can lease an Hermes Ultra 3 or Hermes
Series 11

897
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,864
for $40 or $47 a month. And you can lease
an iPad.

898
00:34:01,864 --> 00:34:03,916
You can lease an iPad mini, Jason.

899
00:34:03,916 --> 00:34:07,439
An iPad mini you can lease for $12 a
month,

900
00:34:07,439 --> 00:34:08,981
but you can't lease a Mac.

901
00:34:09,706 --> 00:34:11,122
Yeah, you should not lease any of them.

902
00:34:11,122 --> 00:34:12,198
But anyway, moving on.

903
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:13,719
Well

904
00:34:12,969 --> 00:34:15,490
the Mac Mini So that was some of the other
rumors too.

905
00:34:15,490 --> 00:34:18,033
I'll just say it's supposedly we're gonna
get a new Mac Mini this fall.

906
00:34:18,033 --> 00:34:23,848
That's gonna be a problem. Because one
iPad mini,

907
00:34:21,532 --> 00:34:26,629
An a new iPad mini? Okay. I was like we
just got Mac minis a couple d yeah.

908
00:34:23,848 --> 00:34:25,540
what did I say? Mac Mini? No, I meant
sorry,

909
00:34:25,540 --> 00:34:27,151
sorry, sir. No, no. So no

910
00:34:27,151 --> 00:34:29,736
iPad mini. They're saying we're gonna get
a new iPad mini this fall.

911
00:34:29,736 --> 00:34:33,256
It might be OLED. They might finally have
a great display on the Mac Mini.

912
00:34:33,256 --> 00:34:37,870
I'm like, the year that you release a
phone that opens up to basically a Mac
Mini,

913
00:34:37,870 --> 00:34:39,682
you're also gonna make a great Mac Mini,

914
00:34:39,682 --> 00:34:40,682
and I'm gonna have to get both.

915
00:34:40,622 --> 00:34:41,622
That's the problem.

916
00:34:42,469 --> 00:34:43,850
That's problem. You like the Mac Mini,

917
00:34:43,850 --> 00:34:47,334
right? Why do I keep saying Mac Mini?

918
00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:45,540
You're talking about the iPad menu,

919
00:34:45,540 --> 00:34:49,575
but yes, I do because we spent the last
five minutes talking about it.

920
00:34:47,334 --> 00:34:51,418
I know, I know. I keep the iPad mini.

921
00:34:49,575 --> 00:34:53,024
I do.

922
00:34:51,418 --> 00:34:53,300
Don't you you do you still use the iPad
Mini?

923
00:34:53,024 --> 00:34:54,250
I like it. Yeah. I just

924
00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:54,300
Yeah.

925
00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:58,025
I do wish it had I don't have the current
that was a A seventeen pro version.

926
00:34:58,025 --> 00:34:59,817
I have the previous version, which

927
00:34:59,138 --> 00:35:00,138
Right.

928
00:34:59,817 --> 00:35:03,440
is totally fine. I don't it's it is just
starting to get a little

929
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,614
bit slow for stuff. And the battery drains
pretty quick.

930
00:35:07,065 --> 00:35:12,425
Man, you know though, an iPad mini with a
good screen and Siri AI,

931
00:35:12,425 --> 00:35:15,093
that'd be a nice that's a nice combo.

932
00:35:15,093 --> 00:35:17,976
Just kinda like your weekend I don't know.

933
00:35:17,976 --> 00:35:19,938
I've been using Siri AI. This was not in
the rundown,

934
00:35:19,938 --> 00:35:25,824
but have you been using Siri AI l more
regularly since the beta season?

935
00:35:25,824 --> 00:35:26,955
Like over time?

936
00:35:28,531 --> 00:35:31,134
I've used it for occasional things.

937
00:35:31,134 --> 00:35:34,929
I like will ask it questions. It's s sort
of fine.

938
00:35:34,929 --> 00:35:38,394
It is super annoying that in the middle of
the answer it's like it'll like give

939
00:35:38,394 --> 00:35:40,508
you a paragraph of an answer and then
it'll be like,

940
00:35:40,508 --> 00:35:42,879
But I'm an a I'm an LLM. I might make
mistakes.

941
00:35:42,879 --> 00:35:44,411
And then it gives you the rest of the
answer.

942
00:35:44,411 --> 00:35:46,013
Just like, come on.

943
00:35:45,312 --> 00:35:46,904
Yeah, they stopped

944
00:35:46,965 --> 00:35:50,690
they stopped doing that. So in the most
recent beta seven update,

945
00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:55,007
you don't get that as often. Like I have
several conversations here where

946
00:35:55,007 --> 00:35:59,043
it didn't do that like, by the way I'm an
L L I got everything wrong.

947
00:35:59,154 --> 00:36:01,124
Mm, all of mine have that in the middle of
it,

948
00:36:01,124 --> 00:36:02,755
which is weird. But in

949
00:36:02,277 --> 00:36:03,277
That's annoying.

950
00:36:02,795 --> 00:36:05,696
and I tried to do some stuff like it it's
really good at some things.

951
00:36:05,696 --> 00:36:07,715
I was trying to come up with the word
satire.

952
00:36:07,715 --> 00:36:10,617
I was what is a w so I I couldn't think of
that word in my head.

953
00:36:10,617 --> 00:36:11,617
So I'm like,

954
00:36:10,815 --> 00:36:11,815
Yeah.

955
00:36:11,258 --> 00:36:14,689
what is a word that's sort of like sarcasm
sarcasm or parody,

956
00:36:14,689 --> 00:36:16,599
but not quite whatever? And it's like

957
00:36:16,228 --> 00:36:17,228
Yeah, yeah.

958
00:36:16,599 --> 00:36:18,420
the word you're thinking of might be
satire.

959
00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:20,217
I'm like, boom, that's exactly what I was
thinking of.

960
00:36:18,785 --> 00:36:20,416
Okay. Yeah.

961
00:36:20,217 --> 00:36:21,217
But then

962
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,222
I tried to ask it, I said, ~ what is the
runtime?

963
00:36:25,726 --> 00:36:29,308
for the latest Superman oops, I mean
Spider Man movie.

964
00:36:29,308 --> 00:36:31,909
And Siri is supposed to be able to adjust
to that.

965
00:36:31,909 --> 00:36:32,909
And it

966
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,120
It's supposed to.

967
00:36:32,729 --> 00:36:35,180
did not. It told me what the twenty twenty
five Superman was.

968
00:36:35,180 --> 00:36:36,961
Like I said, no, I meant Spider Man.

969
00:36:36,961 --> 00:36:39,643
It's like there are no movies with Spider
Man and Superman in them.

970
00:36:39,643 --> 00:36:41,253
Like, I know.

971
00:36:42,621 --> 00:36:48,284
~ so I will just say I've been using Siri
AI more for general knowledge queries

972
00:36:48,845 --> 00:36:51,826
because whenever I ask Claude or ChatGPT,

973
00:36:51,826 --> 00:36:54,247
I don't even think about Gemini anymore.

974
00:36:54,247 --> 00:37:00,551
I it's verbose. The answers are verbose
and it's too long and I don't care for it.

975
00:37:00,551 --> 00:37:04,313
And I really like the short answers that
Siri AI gives me.

976
00:37:04,313 --> 00:37:06,124
And so just a couple examples.

977
00:37:06,124 --> 00:37:10,176
Like I learned that Voltaire was a pen
name.

978
00:37:10,176 --> 00:37:11,437
And so

979
00:37:11,905 --> 00:37:16,086
I asked the A Cerie like, what was
Voltaire's real name?

980
00:37:16,086 --> 00:37:20,607
And the the whole answer was Voltaire's
real name was Francois Marie Aure.

981
00:37:20,607 --> 00:37:24,268
He adopted the pen name in 1718 after
being released from the Bastille prison.

982
00:37:24,268 --> 00:37:27,509
That's the whole answer. And gives me a
nice picture of Voltaire.

983
00:37:27,509 --> 00:37:30,610
And I'm like, that's what I that's what I
want.

984
00:37:30,610 --> 00:37:34,961
What I want is a short answer and a couple
references.

985
00:37:34,961 --> 00:37:36,792
There's there's four links that it gave
me,

986
00:37:36,792 --> 00:37:39,763
and it was great. Another one I was
curious about,

987
00:37:39,763 --> 00:37:41,213
and this one required a little more
explanation.

988
00:37:41,986 --> 00:37:44,597
my wife and I were reading this book and
it mentioned like the lizard brain,

989
00:37:44,597 --> 00:37:48,909
which you see a lot in like psychological
type ~ content.

990
00:37:48,909 --> 00:37:52,810
And I was curious where the term lizard
brain came from.

991
00:37:52,810 --> 00:37:54,621
Like where when did that originate?

992
00:37:54,621 --> 00:37:57,066
When did we start using that? And so I
asked Siri AI,

993
00:37:57,066 --> 00:37:59,973
what does the term lizard brain ~ come
from?

994
00:37:59,973 --> 00:38:06,186
And so it talked about the triune brain
theory from this scientist ~ back from

995
00:38:06,186 --> 00:38:08,137
in the nineteen sixties, Paul McLean,

996
00:38:08,137 --> 00:38:09,227
gave me like

997
00:38:09,507 --> 00:38:13,882
the three bullet points of like what is
the lizard brain ~ three part thing

998
00:38:13,882 --> 00:38:18,226
and also that like modern neuroscience has
largely debunked the triune brain theory

999
00:38:18,507 --> 00:38:19,698
and gave me some articles to that.

1000
00:38:19,698 --> 00:38:21,870
And so for that kind of world general
knowledge,

1001
00:38:21,870 --> 00:38:25,054
I've really been enjoying ~ Siri AI.

1002
00:38:25,054 --> 00:38:28,328
And also just for adding a bunch of events
to my calendar that I might

1003
00:38:28,328 --> 00:38:30,620
see on my screen. Really good at that,

1004
00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:31,620
we'll just say.

1005
00:38:31,218 --> 00:38:32,218
Yeah,

1006
00:38:31,558 --> 00:38:34,019
it's it's got some problems. I asked it a
question.

1007
00:38:34,019 --> 00:38:38,063
I had to have one of ~ a tooth extracted
and I said,

1008
00:38:38,063 --> 00:38:40,866
How long after tooth extraction do you
have to I was sitting with my son

1009
00:38:40,866 --> 00:38:44,168
and we were going to an a game or
something and and he was like,

1010
00:38:44,168 --> 00:38:46,740
Can we have pizza? I said, How long after
tooth extraction do you have

1011
00:38:46,740 --> 00:38:47,901
to wait before eating pizza? It says,

1012
00:38:47,901 --> 00:38:50,754
Well, I'm not a doctor, but general
guidance suggests waiting fourteen days.

1013
00:38:50,754 --> 00:38:53,233
I'm like, and I said

1014
00:38:52,701 --> 00:38:53,701
Well.

1015
00:38:53,233 --> 00:38:55,084
I said, What general guidance?

1016
00:38:55,402 --> 00:38:58,044
And it said, I can't find anything
specific that would indicate

1017
00:38:58,044 --> 00:39:00,262
the waiting and think then why would you
say it?

1018
00:39:00,262 --> 00:39:04,117
Why did you just make that up and pretend
like it's general guidance from a doctor?

1019
00:39:04,117 --> 00:39:05,208
'Cause the d I

1020
00:39:04,487 --> 00:39:05,487
That's interesting.

1021
00:39:05,208 --> 00:39:07,419
everything I then looked it up really
quickly is like,

1022
00:39:07,419 --> 00:39:09,166
~ forty eight hours you're probably fine.

1023
00:39:09,166 --> 00:39:11,031
I'm just like, what are you talking about,

1024
00:39:09,586 --> 00:39:12,102
~ That's strange.

1025
00:39:11,031 --> 00:39:12,142
Siri? Why would

1026
00:39:12,142 --> 00:39:15,114
you why would you taunt me like that and
make me feel like I'm

1027
00:39:14,929 --> 00:39:15,929
That

1028
00:39:15,179 --> 00:39:17,450
is that is the one thing and this is
strange.

1029
00:39:17,450 --> 00:39:21,413
Like I don't know if it's because of its
your experience or my past history,

1030
00:39:21,413 --> 00:39:25,649
but if there's any medical type question I
want to ask an AI,

1031
00:39:25,649 --> 00:39:28,463
I still go to Chat GPT. And I don't know
if

1032
00:39:26,752 --> 00:39:27,915
Yeah, exa yeah.

1033
00:39:28,463 --> 00:39:32,099
just because that I feel like probably has
the most context for people asking

1034
00:39:32,099 --> 00:39:34,951
it medical questions. And you know,

1035
00:39:34,951 --> 00:39:36,101
they also integrate with Apple Health,

1036
00:39:36,101 --> 00:39:38,163
but I don't do that. But I just feel like

1037
00:39:37,761 --> 00:39:38,761
That on either.

1038
00:39:38,863 --> 00:39:42,255
I feel like Chat GPT has the sources that
it's gonna pull from.

1039
00:39:42,749 --> 00:39:45,025
'Cause it a it probably has to answer that
a million times a day.

1040
00:39:45,367 --> 00:39:47,849
Yeah, and I asked it, I asked it the
question,

1041
00:39:47,849 --> 00:39:49,250
and it was like 48 hours, you're probably
fine.

1042
00:39:49,250 --> 00:39:51,252
I was like, okay, great. Sounds good.

1043
00:39:51,252 --> 00:39:54,345
Also, the battery life on my ph I just
looked at my phone.

1044
00:39:54,345 --> 00:39:57,518
My phone right now is at 51%. And it's
only 9 30 in the morning.

1045
00:39:57,518 --> 00:39:59,820
The beta has been crushing my battery.

1046
00:39:59,856 --> 00:40:00,856
Really?

1047
00:40:00,601 --> 00:40:02,252
Absolutely destroying my battery.

1048
00:40:02,252 --> 00:40:04,554
Ugh. I

1049
00:40:02,586 --> 00:40:03,773
That's not been the case for me.

1050
00:40:03,773 --> 00:40:04,773
I'm I've

1051
00:40:04,554 --> 00:40:06,576
think I might still be on, I don't know
which one I'm on,

1052
00:40:06,576 --> 00:40:07,997
because there's almost no way to tell.

1053
00:40:07,997 --> 00:40:10,209
But I'm not on seven. I'm not on the
latest one.

1054
00:40:09,973 --> 00:40:10,973
you sh yeah, go

1055
00:40:10,209 --> 00:40:11,209
So.

1056
00:40:10,635 --> 00:40:12,450
to go to seven. Take it to seven.

1057
00:40:12,746 --> 00:40:14,358
I'm gonna I'm gonna dial it up to seven.

1058
00:40:14,358 --> 00:40:15,358
I'm gonna do it right now.

1059
00:40:15,194 --> 00:40:19,556
That's it. while you do that, we're gonna
thank our friends because this episode

1060
00:40:19,556 --> 00:40:22,408
is brought to you by our friends at
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1061
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1064
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1068
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1070
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1080
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1081
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1084
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1085
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1086
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1087
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1088
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1096
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1097
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1109
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1110
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1130
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1131
00:43:51,887 --> 00:43:55,690
Now there was one Apple thing we need to
cover.

1132
00:43:55,690 --> 00:43:57,972
What just one just one little quick thing,

1133
00:43:57,972 --> 00:43:59,373
one last thing. I just closed my tab.

1134
00:43:59,373 --> 00:44:02,866
No. Sorry, hold on. Safari, if you didn't
know,

1135
00:44:02,866 --> 00:44:04,938
the recently closed tabs ~ feature.

1136
00:44:04,938 --> 00:44:07,918
Excellent. Excellent. I just want to say
Apple.

1137
00:44:07,551 --> 00:44:08,551
Lifesaver.

1138
00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:12,722
It's a lifesaver. Ads are now here in
Apple Maps.

1139
00:44:12,722 --> 00:44:17,065
And I don't know I don't know if you see
stuff on social media,

1140
00:44:17,065 --> 00:44:20,667
Jason. Full stop. I know a lot of people
are like,

1141
00:44:20,667 --> 00:44:24,728
it's no big deal. It's ads. Everybody
should stop freaking out.

1142
00:44:24,728 --> 00:44:29,491
It's just ads. Okay. I would like to know
if those same people

1143
00:44:29,932 --> 00:44:33,354
pay for YouTube premium. Do they pay for
the Netflix plan without ads?

1144
00:44:33,354 --> 00:44:37,666
Do they you know, I feel like just

1145
00:44:38,224 --> 00:44:40,525
Justifying ads because they're fine.

1146
00:44:40,525 --> 00:44:41,986
I don't know. I don't feel like it's a
good reason.

1147
00:44:41,986 --> 00:44:45,947
And I just want to point out some of the
ads that I have seen in Central Florida.

1148
00:44:45,947 --> 00:44:49,649
I kind of so if you want to see whether or
not there are ads near you,

1149
00:44:49,649 --> 00:44:54,151
you open the Apple Maps app, go to an
area,

1150
00:44:54,151 --> 00:44:57,152
if you go near a major city, there's a
more likelihood you will see the ads.

1151
00:44:57,152 --> 00:45:00,233
And just tap to search.

1152
00:45:00,233 --> 00:45:02,394
And before you even tap anything,

1153
00:45:02,394 --> 00:45:05,996
you'll see suggested places and you'll see
if there's an ad.

1154
00:45:06,736 --> 00:45:08,296
Some of the ads that I have seen.

1155
00:45:08,296 --> 00:45:12,378
Fast Money Electronics LLC, a mobile phone
store.

1156
00:45:12,378 --> 00:45:16,599
~ Frothy Car Wash Lounge. Okay.

1157
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:19,900
~ John Collin and Co. real estate agent,

1158
00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:21,740
which we're gonna get to that in a moment.

1159
00:45:21,740 --> 00:45:24,441
I found that strange. And Salem's Fresh
Eats,

1160
00:45:24,441 --> 00:45:26,902
which to be fair, Salem's is actually
pretty good.

1161
00:45:26,902 --> 00:45:27,932
They have a great chicken filly.

1162
00:45:27,932 --> 00:45:30,203
But anyway, lots of ads in Apple Maps.

1163
00:45:30,203 --> 00:45:31,313
And now people are saying, listen,

1164
00:45:31,313 --> 00:45:33,744
it's it's unobtrusive, it's clearly marked
an ad.

1165
00:45:33,744 --> 00:45:35,034
Stop freaking out. Okay.

1166
00:45:35,812 --> 00:45:37,734
I also feel like there are some ads,

1167
00:45:37,734 --> 00:45:41,837
like this one, shared by Joe Rosenstiel on
Mastodon.

1168
00:45:41,837 --> 00:45:47,402
~ LifeSafer, which is a I guess a car
locking system.

1169
00:45:47,402 --> 00:45:51,655
And I found this curious because Apple
announced earlier this summer,

1170
00:45:51,655 --> 00:45:54,147
back in July, this is covered by Mac
rumors,

1171
00:45:54,147 --> 00:45:58,431
that home services like plumbing,

1172
00:45:58,431 --> 00:46:01,063
electrical, locksmith, HVAC, pest control,

1173
00:46:01,063 --> 00:46:02,835
roofing, and general contracting services

1174
00:46:03,215 --> 00:46:06,296
would not be allowed to advertise in Apple
Maps.

1175
00:46:06,296 --> 00:46:09,418
And maybe because this is a mobile locking
service,

1176
00:46:09,418 --> 00:46:13,339
it gets a pass. But that seems strange.

1177
00:46:13,339 --> 00:46:18,401
I'm curious like how difficult the
approval process is for these things.

1178
00:46:18,401 --> 00:46:25,184
But also because the other thing ~ that
you can see is a psychic service.

1179
00:46:25,184 --> 00:46:31,207
So also you might see the Healing Circle
Psychic Service advertise in Apple Maps.

1180
00:46:31,207 --> 00:46:32,207
And now

1181
00:46:32,463 --> 00:46:37,525
Just the high level. I feel like Apple's
experience is usually

1182
00:46:37,525 --> 00:46:41,786
the premium experience. You pay a lot for
the hardware now more than ever.

1183
00:46:41,786 --> 00:46:44,798
And yes, you get ads in Apple News,

1184
00:46:44,798 --> 00:46:46,178
and we've talked about those before.

1185
00:46:46,178 --> 00:46:48,909
They're not great. Now Apple Maps,

1186
00:46:48,909 --> 00:46:51,263
where you might see a psychic ad.

1187
00:46:51,263 --> 00:46:54,051
I don't know, Jason. That feels that feels
weird to me.

1188
00:46:54,902 --> 00:46:58,468
I mean there has never been anything
premium about Apple's ads.

1189
00:46:58,468 --> 00:47:01,443
There's not a single Apple ads premium
product.

1190
00:47:01,443 --> 00:47:02,443
Is there?

1191
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:06,018
Well, one of the places you would see I
mean the you would see ads in

1192
00:47:06,018 --> 00:47:08,996
the app store where app developers can buy
ads,

1193
00:47:08,566 --> 00:47:11,487
Which is predatory. You have to pay a tax

1194
00:47:08,996 --> 00:47:11,093
which is predatory keyword predatory.

1195
00:47:11,487 --> 00:47:12,828
in order to just sell your app.

1196
00:47:12,828 --> 00:47:18,051
Okay, that's one place. They're just those
are disgusting.

1197
00:47:13,145 --> 00:47:16,923
Yes. Apple News, which is horrible.

1198
00:47:16,923 --> 00:47:18,917
Disgusting.

1199
00:47:18,051 --> 00:47:19,171
Those

1200
00:47:19,171 --> 00:47:21,112
are Taboola or whatever that company is,

1201
00:47:21,112 --> 00:47:24,084
that's just like the bottom feeding
advertising.

1202
00:47:22,211 --> 00:47:24,696
Yeah, yeah. It's bad.

1203
00:47:24,084 --> 00:47:25,084
Yeah.

1204
00:47:25,078 --> 00:47:26,340
And I guess this is just the third place,

1205
00:47:26,340 --> 00:47:29,477
right? There's not another place for ads.

1206
00:47:29,646 --> 00:47:32,126
well, so yeah, you said the app store,

1207
00:47:32,126 --> 00:47:33,126
~

1208
00:47:32,750 --> 00:47:33,750
App

1209
00:47:32,910 --> 00:47:36,052
Store Apple News, because Apple Music
doesn't have ads,

1210
00:47:36,052 --> 00:47:38,033
you have to pay for it. Apple Apple

1211
00:47:37,034 --> 00:47:38,034
Just podcasts.

1212
00:47:38,033 --> 00:47:39,794
Podcasts, there's no ads. You know,

1213
00:47:39,794 --> 00:47:42,105
they feature shows, but that's editorial.

1214
00:47:42,105 --> 00:47:45,167
There's no way to pay for placement in
Apple Podcasts.

1215
00:47:45,167 --> 00:47:48,368
You know. I

1216
00:47:45,789 --> 00:47:47,338
There should be. No, I'm just kidding.

1217
00:47:48,368 --> 00:47:51,310
mean, here's the thing. We've now like,

1218
00:47:51,310 --> 00:47:55,212
we're in a world where Apple is slowly
adding ads to more things.

1219
00:47:55,212 --> 00:47:58,414
I could 100% see ads in Fitness Plus,

1220
00:47:58,414 --> 00:48:00,675
which there's not right now, but I'm like,

1221
00:48:01,047 --> 00:48:04,070
I'm sure there are one thousand fitness
products,

1222
00:48:04,070 --> 00:48:09,226
like physical things, like imagine you see
a workout in Fitness Plus that uses

1223
00:48:09,226 --> 00:48:12,459
exercise bands and then there's an ad
right underneath it to buy it.

1224
00:48:12,459 --> 00:48:14,681
I feel like we are not far from that.

1225
00:48:14,681 --> 00:48:16,103
I feel like that's a very

1226
00:48:16,394 --> 00:48:18,816
Yeah. So I guess it's at the App Store,

1227
00:48:18,816 --> 00:48:23,371
Maps, News, Apple T V, I guess obviously
theoretically has ads 'cause

1228
00:48:23,371 --> 00:48:24,371
you can put ads

1229
00:48:23,493 --> 00:48:24,493
Well Friday night

1230
00:48:24,355 --> 00:48:26,130
the Friday night baseball does have ads,

1231
00:48:26,130 --> 00:48:29,028
so you're right there. ~ commercials.

1232
00:48:27,706 --> 00:48:29,027
~ so

1233
00:48:29,168 --> 00:48:33,231
Apple's ad products have mostly been
terrible.

1234
00:48:33,231 --> 00:48:35,193
Like for the most part, especially

1235
00:48:33,763 --> 00:48:35,082
Yeah. Yeah.

1236
00:48:35,193 --> 00:48:40,518
in Apple News. They're terrible just on on
the type of content on Apple's

1237
00:48:40,518 --> 00:48:44,792
on the App Store. They're terrible because
you have to pay for your own search name.

1238
00:48:44,792 --> 00:48:47,055
Like it's just predatory. It's just

1239
00:48:45,241 --> 00:48:46,882
Yeah. Yeah.

1240
00:48:47,055 --> 00:48:50,007
very, very bad. So Apple has never had
great ads,

1241
00:48:50,007 --> 00:48:52,628
but what is I'm sure is happening with
these is.

1242
00:48:52,904 --> 00:48:54,295
Is that these are just the people who are
like,

1243
00:48:54,295 --> 00:48:56,016
boom, we're getting in there. You're

1244
00:48:55,556 --> 00:48:56,556
Yeah.

1245
00:48:56,016 --> 00:48:59,628
s you have to just select a category and
as long as you don't select that

1246
00:48:59,628 --> 00:49:02,760
I'm a locksmith, your ads probably gonna
get approved.

1247
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,541
And then it's gonna take someone to report
an ad to be like,

1248
00:49:05,541 --> 00:49:07,532
I don't think that this should be in
there.

1249
00:49:07,532 --> 00:49:09,143
But I did want to make one distinction.

1250
00:49:09,143 --> 00:49:15,026
I don't think that these ads are equatable
to like paying for YouTube premium.

1251
00:49:15,026 --> 00:49:19,039
And the reason is you pay for YouTube
premium because the ads that

1252
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:21,330
get shown consume your time.

1253
00:49:22,132 --> 00:49:23,363
Right? Like if you

1254
00:49:22,949 --> 00:49:23,949
Sure.

1255
00:49:23,363 --> 00:49:26,494
wanted to watch a YouTube video and
there's thirty seconds of ads before

1256
00:49:26,494 --> 00:49:30,626
the YouTube video, you that's thirty
seconds of your life you're paying for.

1257
00:49:30,626 --> 00:49:32,457
But these you just ignore them.

1258
00:49:32,457 --> 00:49:35,468
Like I ignore suggested places anyway in
Apple Maps.

1259
00:49:35,468 --> 00:49:38,689
I've never once in fact I was pulling it
up to look at and like I like,

1260
00:49:38,689 --> 00:49:41,621
there are suggested places because when
I'm doing Apple Maps and typing,

1261
00:49:41,621 --> 00:49:45,172
I don't look below the search bar because
I'm just typing what I need

1262
00:49:45,172 --> 00:49:46,783
in the search bar and going from there.

1263
00:49:46,783 --> 00:49:49,044
So and usually I don't think I've

1264
00:49:49,794 --> 00:49:53,908
I guess I have sometimes typed in like
restaurants or Starbucks

1265
00:49:53,908 --> 00:49:57,371
or something like that near to find them
nearby wherever I am.

1266
00:49:57,371 --> 00:49:58,892
So maybe I would see an ad then.

1267
00:49:58,892 --> 00:50:02,866
But those ads I just they don't take me it
doesn't those ads don't make

1268
00:50:02,866 --> 00:50:06,049
it take longer to get to the thing I want.

1269
00:50:06,049 --> 00:50:09,091
Whereas YouTube premium, I just don't want
those ads because I don't want

1270
00:50:08,665 --> 00:50:10,537
Right, right, right. Yeah.

1271
00:50:09,091 --> 00:50:10,903
it to take up my time. Does that make
sense?

1272
00:50:11,319 --> 00:50:16,335
That is fair. I just think I feel like the
people who are saying ads are

1273
00:50:16,335 --> 00:50:20,470
no big deal in Apple Maps are probably
very adverse to ads in a lot of other
places.

1274
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:26,057
And to use that as like a justification
for you shouldn't be upset about this,

1275
00:50:26,057 --> 00:50:27,199
it just feels weird.

1276
00:50:27,319 --> 00:50:31,240
But ads in Apple Maps makes the most sense
and is the most acceptable

1277
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:33,881
for I don't like it because Apple Maps
never had ads,

1278
00:50:33,881 --> 00:50:39,082
but Maps ads makes the most sense because
it is the high it

1279
00:50:38,702 --> 00:50:39,702
Yeah.

1280
00:50:39,082 --> 00:50:44,084
is a it is a high signal to intent for the
business to buy an ad

1281
00:50:43,567 --> 00:50:44,567
Right.

1282
00:50:44,084 --> 00:50:48,345
to say, I my coffee shop is here and
someone's searching for coffee,

1283
00:50:48,345 --> 00:50:51,006
you get to be shown higher, right?

1284
00:50:49,199 --> 00:50:51,712
Yeah. And yeah.

1285
00:50:51,006 --> 00:50:52,006
And it makes

1286
00:50:51,906 --> 00:50:55,807
sense. And it's more likely that it gives
the user a thing that they were looking

1287
00:50:55,807 --> 00:50:56,807
for.

1288
00:50:56,461 --> 00:50:59,149
versus whatever randomness YouTube sticks
in front of a video.

1289
00:50:59,609 --> 00:51:03,171
That's fair that is fair. I'm also curious
that people who are saying ads

1290
00:51:03,171 --> 00:51:05,244
are no big deal have ad blockers on their
web browser.

1291
00:51:05,244 --> 00:51:06,886
We'll just say that.

1292
00:51:07,512 --> 00:51:08,512
Sure.

1293
00:51:08,148 --> 00:51:09,909
You know, and that's not like a time
thing.

1294
00:51:09,909 --> 00:51:12,732
That's just a visual dist distraction or
disturbance.

1295
00:51:12,732 --> 00:51:18,117
I will say I'm gonna link the page where
you can sign up and actually

1296
00:51:18,117 --> 00:51:23,803
put ads in Apple Maps. And here there's
some interesting stats that Apple
espouses.

1297
00:51:24,372 --> 00:51:26,076
One, there's a high conversion rate.

1298
00:51:26,076 --> 00:51:29,846
One in two searches for a business result
in a user taking action.

1299
00:51:29,846 --> 00:51:31,311
That's curious.

1300
00:51:31,447 --> 00:51:34,562
Well, that's 'cause they only had two
searches and one of them resulted in a bil

1301
00:51:34,847 --> 00:51:35,847
Yeah.

1302
00:51:35,749 --> 00:51:39,334
Over a billion relevant searches for
businesses take place every month

1303
00:51:39,374 --> 00:51:44,192
and reach valuable customers. Gen Z and
millennials make up fifty-seven percent

1304
00:51:44,192 --> 00:51:46,525
of maps users. That's curious too.

1305
00:51:47,125 --> 00:51:49,313
I mean that's that's a that's a column
right there.

1306
00:51:49,805 --> 00:51:55,559
Yeah, there you go. But to I think one
correction from how we've been talking
about

1307
00:51:55,559 --> 00:51:56,599
it, and I didn't realize this.

1308
00:51:56,599 --> 00:52:00,582
Apple is very clear of the two places
people will see ads.

1309
00:52:00,582 --> 00:52:03,183
And this was like I was trying to get it
to show me ads,

1310
00:52:03,183 --> 00:52:05,505
and I couldn't figure out exactly what it
was.

1311
00:52:05,505 --> 00:52:09,607
And it's before you search and after you
search.

1312
00:52:09,607 --> 00:52:14,870
So when you go to an area of a map and you
tap the search box,

1313
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:15,871
there will be

1314
00:52:16,155 --> 00:52:19,127
could be an ad that shows up at the top of
suggested places before

1315
00:52:19,127 --> 00:52:24,229
you type in anything, which is interesting
because Apple Maps doesn't know what

1316
00:52:24,229 --> 00:52:26,721
you're looking for yet. You could be about
to search for coffee,

1317
00:52:26,721 --> 00:52:28,962
you could be about to search for a tire
repair place.

1318
00:52:28,962 --> 00:52:30,403
Like it could be very different.

1319
00:52:30,403 --> 00:52:33,325
So that one is just strictly geographical.

1320
00:52:33,325 --> 00:52:36,686
Like someone could pay for an ad that
shows up if you're searching

1321
00:52:36,686 --> 00:52:38,968
for anything in your general vicinity.

1322
00:52:38,968 --> 00:52:41,449
And then there's the after they search.

1323
00:52:41,449 --> 00:52:44,001
So connect with customers actively looking
at maps for what your business

1324
00:52:44,001 --> 00:52:45,001
has to offer

1325
00:52:45,081 --> 00:52:46,982
Show up at a high intent moment.

1326
00:52:46,982 --> 00:52:49,914
So then if you do search for sporting
goods,

1327
00:52:49,914 --> 00:52:52,496
then you might also see an ad.

1328
00:52:52,496 --> 00:52:56,379
So it's kind of covering both like is the
user just looking in a certain area

1329
00:52:56,759 --> 00:52:58,661
and when the user is looking for something
specifically.

1330
00:52:58,661 --> 00:53:02,263
Now I think I'm not sure if it says it on
this page,

1331
00:53:02,263 --> 00:53:06,006
but I think there's only one ad visible
per search.

1332
00:53:05,527 --> 00:53:06,954
Believe that I believe that that's true.

1333
00:53:07,627 --> 00:53:11,510
So that you're not going to get like the
Google search ads where there's like

1334
00:53:11,850 --> 00:53:12,901
you know five.

1335
00:53:13,155 --> 00:53:16,558
sponsored links before you get to one
search result that's not sponsored.

1336
00:53:16,558 --> 00:53:19,682
So it is less intrusive than something
like that.

1337
00:53:19,682 --> 00:53:23,826
And yes, when it comes to is this
tasteful,

1338
00:53:23,826 --> 00:53:25,688
if you compare it to Google Maps,

1339
00:53:25,688 --> 00:53:29,772
this is way better than Google Maps as far
as like how ads and just

1340
00:53:29,772 --> 00:53:34,346
how the UI looks. But it just also feels
like I'm gonna see us I might

1341
00:53:34,346 --> 00:53:36,839
see a psychic when I am in Apple Maps.

1342
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,421
No, you're not gonna see any of it.

1343
00:53:38,421 --> 00:53:41,492
Because like like I said, the suggested
places has already been there

1344
00:53:41,492 --> 00:53:43,162
and I've never once noticed it's there.

1345
00:53:43,162 --> 00:53:44,673
And there's gonna be an ad there now,

1346
00:53:44,673 --> 00:53:48,715
which just means that someone can pay to
be in the suggested places versus whatever

1347
00:53:48,715 --> 00:53:50,445
algorithm it's pumping into that.

1348
00:53:50,445 --> 00:53:52,436
So I don't really care about any of that.

1349
00:53:52,436 --> 00:53:55,287
I will there's o there's only one problem
I have with it.

1350
00:53:55,287 --> 00:53:56,828
Well, no, there's two problems I have with
it.

1351
00:53:56,828 --> 00:54:01,420
One, if you're part of the Apple small
business and you do the Apple maps,

1352
00:54:01,420 --> 00:54:03,570
you cannot target your competitors'
keywords.

1353
00:54:03,570 --> 00:54:04,570
Okay?

1354
00:54:05,089 --> 00:54:07,840
But if you're just an Apple ads like
corporate customer,

1355
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:09,780
so McDonald's could target Starbucks.

1356
00:54:09,780 --> 00:54:12,481
But I don't like that at all. If I type in
Starbucks,

1357
00:54:12,481 --> 00:54:14,902
the only result I should see is Starbucks.

1358
00:54:14,902 --> 00:54:19,733
And Starbucks should not have to pay I'm
not I'm not like advocating for Starbucks.

1359
00:54:19,733 --> 00:54:20,873
They make plenty of money. It's fine.

1360
00:54:20,873 --> 00:54:21,873
But my point is

1361
00:54:20,986 --> 00:54:21,986
Sure, sure.

1362
00:54:21,564 --> 00:54:24,114
if I search for Starbucks, I should not
see anything but Starbucks.

1363
00:54:24,114 --> 00:54:27,005
Nothing. No there's no amount of money
that you should be able to give Apple

1364
00:54:27,005 --> 00:54:28,196
to show up at the top of that search.

1365
00:54:28,196 --> 00:54:29,726
Because all I'm looking for is Starbucks.

1366
00:54:29,726 --> 00:54:33,187
Unless it turns out there are no Starbucks
in the area I'm looking for.

1367
00:54:33,537 --> 00:54:35,448
And then it should then it makes sense to
me.

1368
00:54:35,448 --> 00:54:40,369
But the fact that McDonald's can also
target like your little mom and pop shop,

1369
00:54:40,369 --> 00:54:42,710
I do not like that at all. But the mom and
pop shop,

1370
00:54:42,710 --> 00:54:44,310
if they're not an Apple ads customer,

1371
00:54:44,310 --> 00:54:45,810
if they're an Apple small business
customer,

1372
00:54:45,810 --> 00:54:48,551
they cannot target searches for
McDonald's.

1373
00:54:48,551 --> 00:54:52,202
So I do not like that. And then the second
thing I don't like is once you have

1374
00:54:52,202 --> 00:54:54,793
an ad product, it's just a dial you're
gonna start turning.

1375
00:54:54,793 --> 00:54:58,234
So the way that they've implemented it now
is is gr I think is great.

1376
00:54:58,234 --> 00:55:01,095
I think it's totally fine having it in the
suggested places,

1377
00:55:01,095 --> 00:55:02,395
having it after you search.

1378
00:55:02,741 --> 00:55:06,314
if when it's relevant, fine, with the
exception with the caveats that I
mentioned.

1379
00:55:06,314 --> 00:55:11,297
But it's the reason app or Google Maps
looks so terrible and there's so many

1380
00:55:11,297 --> 00:55:13,049
ads is because once you put ads,

1381
00:55:13,049 --> 00:55:15,571
once you've broken the seal, it's just a
knob

1382
00:55:15,130 --> 00:55:16,130
Sure.

1383
00:55:15,571 --> 00:55:16,591
that's some well, it's listen,

1384
00:55:16,591 --> 00:55:19,183
this is someone's KPI is

1385
00:55:19,117 --> 00:55:20,117
Yeah.

1386
00:55:19,564 --> 00:55:21,378
revenue revenue per impression.

1387
00:55:21,378 --> 00:55:25,268
And one way to turn up like revenue and
whatever is to just start turning that
knob

1388
00:55:25,268 --> 00:55:26,909
and that's what will eventually happen.

1389
00:55:26,909 --> 00:55:29,581
G ~ just look at Apple News.

1390
00:55:30,095 --> 00:55:31,095
Yeah.

1391
00:55:30,135 --> 00:55:31,135
There's

1392
00:55:30,475 --> 00:55:34,071
just as many ads in Apple News as on any
publisher's website and it's just

1393
00:55:33,805 --> 00:55:36,676
Right. So

1394
00:55:34,071 --> 00:55:35,133
toe fungus everywhere.

1395
00:55:37,436 --> 00:55:39,896
yeah. So like I'm not super mad about it,

1396
00:55:39,896 --> 00:55:43,157
but it is kind of just a man. You know,

1397
00:55:43,157 --> 00:55:44,498
we got ads in one more place.

1398
00:55:44,173 --> 00:55:45,173
Yeah.

1399
00:55:44,898 --> 00:55:48,239
And it does I think beg the question,

1400
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,139
where else will Apple put ads in the
future?

1401
00:55:51,139 --> 00:55:54,620
I think Apple Music is a prime place.

1402
00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:58,641
They could very easily go to the Spotify
model where it's free with ads

1403
00:55:58,661 --> 00:56:02,202
or you pay for premium. Fitness plus seems
like

1404
00:56:02,734 --> 00:56:04,175
They could surely put stuff there.

1405
00:56:04,175 --> 00:56:09,061
And podcast too. And that would be like I
know the third party

1406
00:56:09,141 --> 00:56:12,664
app market for podcast apps is struggling
right now.

1407
00:56:12,664 --> 00:56:17,650
That would be a huge boon to the third
party app podcast app market

1408
00:56:18,030 --> 00:56:20,483
if Apple puts ads in Apple Podcasts.

1409
00:56:20,483 --> 00:56:21,504
So we'll see.

1410
00:56:20,853 --> 00:56:21,853
Except for the fact

1411
00:56:21,563 --> 00:56:24,925
that then you start having to pay for your
own placement.

1412
00:56:24,925 --> 00:56:27,566
I just don't that's the one dynamic I do
not like.

1413
00:56:27,566 --> 00:56:30,387
The whole purpose of search ads is people
tell you what they're looking for.

1414
00:56:30,387 --> 00:56:33,519
You can pay to be there. The problem is
when somebody looks looks

1415
00:56:33,519 --> 00:56:37,111
for something specific, then it becomes a
tax because that person has to

1416
00:56:37,111 --> 00:56:38,111
pay to be there.

1417
00:56:38,178 --> 00:56:41,469
Right. Or you know, like Marco Armin with
Overcast,

1418
00:56:41,469 --> 00:56:43,910
you don't pay anything and then a bunch of
other apps show up around you,

1419
00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:47,121
but people who want overcast, they know
where to get overcast,

1420
00:56:47,121 --> 00:56:49,598
kind of thing. So all right, well yeah,

1421
00:56:49,598 --> 00:56:55,313
there's ads and apple maps. There was a
huge meta lawsuit going on that meta

1422
00:56:55,313 --> 00:57:01,325
has now settled and a bunch of parental
restrictions and new rules are being

1423
00:57:01,325 --> 00:57:05,676
set in place. So I'll leave this Verge
article that talks about it ~ kind

1424
00:57:05,676 --> 00:57:06,676
of at a high level.

1425
00:57:06,980 --> 00:57:07,980
This

1426
00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:10,271
was a major lawsuit between 29 states and
Meta.

1427
00:57:10,271 --> 00:57:13,743
Meta's gonna have to pay over 17 billion
dollars to these states over a period

1428
00:57:13,743 --> 00:57:17,014
of 10 years, which feels like couch change
for Meta.

1429
00:57:17,014 --> 00:57:21,516
But there's gonna be a bunch of
restrictions for teenagers placed

1430
00:57:21,516 --> 00:57:25,438
in Instagram and Facebook because of this
settlement.

1431
00:57:25,438 --> 00:57:30,300
And so I will link Facebook's they have a
whole blog post talking about

1432
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:33,661
~ like these specific things that they're
having to restrict,

1433
00:57:33,661 --> 00:57:35,072
and I'm gonna go through a couple of them
in a minute.

1434
00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:39,970
They also have a blog post like an open
letter to TikTok and YouTube to join

1435
00:57:39,970 --> 00:57:44,901
us in supporting teens. It's like Meta was
just forced to put a time limit

1436
00:57:45,101 --> 00:57:47,502
on the amount of time teens can spend in
Instagram.

1437
00:57:47,502 --> 00:57:51,303
So you sh yeah, okay guys. They just hey
YouTube,

1438
00:57:51,303 --> 00:57:54,664
you too should help teens and put a limit
on the amount they can watch.

1439
00:57:54,664 --> 00:57:59,035
Whatever, man. Like you just don't want
teens to be able to watch YouTube because

1440
00:57:59,035 --> 00:58:01,395
they can't open Instagram because you have
to put it in place.

1441
00:58:01,395 --> 00:58:02,986
Anyway, I thought that was very funny.

1442
00:58:02,986 --> 00:58:03,986
Like

1443
00:58:03,501 --> 00:58:04,501
Well,

1444
00:58:03,701 --> 00:58:08,905
it's it's more than that. So YouTube or
Instagram is or Facebook,

1445
00:58:08,905 --> 00:58:11,337
excuse me, meta, whatever, whatever we
call them anymore,

1446
00:58:09,902 --> 00:58:11,637
Yeah, meta, meta. Yeah.

1447
00:58:11,337 --> 00:58:12,337
is

1448
00:58:11,837 --> 00:58:15,900
only gonna pay five billion of this if
YouTube and TikTok agree to do this.

1449
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:16,961
So

1450
00:58:15,982 --> 00:58:16,982
That too. Yeah.

1451
00:58:17,021 --> 00:58:19,103
of the amount of money that they agreed to
pay,

1452
00:58:19,103 --> 00:58:22,235
they agreed to send like ten billion of it
or whatever,

1453
00:58:22,235 --> 00:58:23,786
regardless over the course of ten years.

1454
00:58:23,786 --> 00:58:24,786
And like a

1455
00:58:25,815 --> 00:58:29,038
Meta's quarterly revenue was like fifteen
billion dollars or something like that,

1456
00:58:29,038 --> 00:58:31,280
or profit was like so they're like this is
a quarter,

1457
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,652
Right. Yeah.

1458
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:32,861
one quarter. Like it's

1459
00:58:32,861 --> 00:58:35,873
not a lot of money, but it is still a
pretty significant amount

1460
00:58:35,873 --> 00:58:38,365
in comparison to previous settlements.

1461
00:58:38,365 --> 00:58:40,667
It begs the question why would they do
this?

1462
00:58:40,667 --> 00:58:44,050
One reason they might do this is to get
out in front because trials

1463
00:58:44,050 --> 00:58:45,752
are unpredictable, unpredictable.

1464
00:58:45,752 --> 00:58:49,815
And there was the potential damages of the
potential damages could have been

1465
00:58:50,216 --> 00:58:52,878
significantly higher. And so this was a
settlement.

1466
00:58:52,878 --> 00:58:54,439
They aren't this is not a judgment.

1467
00:58:54,529 --> 00:58:57,880
So they were able to sort of dictate the
terms and one of the terms they dictated

1468
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,862
was we'll pay you some of this money if
these other companies agree to the terms.

1469
00:59:01,862 --> 00:59:03,252
And here's the craziest thing.

1470
00:59:03,252 --> 00:59:06,303
I think I have this right. I I was just
looking while you were talking.

1471
00:59:06,303 --> 00:59:10,684
They under eighteen users are limited to
two hours a day,

1472
00:59:10,820 --> 00:59:11,820
Yes.

1473
00:59:11,725 --> 00:59:16,253
but the imp imposition on YouTube and
TikTok is one hour a day.

1474
00:59:18,389 --> 00:59:21,471
So we'll pay five billion dollars to be
able to have

1475
00:59:18,458 --> 00:59:21,432
Convenient Convenient.

1476
00:59:21,471 --> 00:59:24,364
double the amount of time. I if I'm wrong
about that,

1477
00:59:24,364 --> 00:59:26,557
I apologize. It just seems crazy.

1478
00:59:26,557 --> 00:59:29,189
I'm sorry, you have to bleep that out.

1479
00:59:28,002 --> 00:59:29,589
Let me drop a marker.

1480
00:59:29,189 --> 00:59:30,590
Sorry.

1481
00:59:31,551 --> 00:59:34,433
My brain was like, which which word of
that sentence am I supposed

1482
00:59:34,433 --> 00:59:35,805
to self-censor and I got it wrong.

1483
00:59:35,805 --> 00:59:36,805
But anyway

1484
00:59:38,288 --> 00:59:42,690
That yeah. So here the some of the
restrictions that are in place because

1485
00:59:42,690 --> 00:59:45,192
of this settlement. There's the two hour
limit.

1486
00:59:45,192 --> 00:59:50,375
There's a default two hour limit for
teenagers on Instagram unless parents
change

1487
00:59:50,375 --> 00:59:52,156
it. So parents can actively change it.

1488
00:59:52,156 --> 00:59:55,298
A night mode where between midnight and
six a.m.

1489
00:59:55,298 --> 00:59:57,479
they block their apps like Instagram.

1490
00:59:57,479 --> 01:00:01,351
There's a school mode, so notifications
will be muted from 8 a.m.

1491
01:00:01,351 --> 01:00:02,351
to 3 p.m. ~

1492
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:07,253
There's regular prompts. Teens will
receive regular prompts every fifteen
minutes

1493
01:00:07,253 --> 01:00:10,015
of continuous screen time on Facebook or
Instagram.

1494
01:00:10,015 --> 01:00:14,689
And they're will receive prompts when
their total daily usage hits sixty

1495
01:00:14,689 --> 01:00:16,520
and ninety minutes. So just warnings,

1496
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:18,111
you know, annoying things that will come
up regularly.

1497
01:00:18,111 --> 01:00:19,111
This

1498
01:00:18,484 --> 01:00:19,484
You have teenagers.

1499
01:00:19,345 --> 01:00:21,415
Does that have any effect on anything that
they do?

1500
01:00:21,415 --> 01:00:24,309
Have you ever seen a teenager with the
request one more minute for screen time?

1501
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:26,001
Like they don't it it's just like mo

1502
01:00:25,428 --> 01:00:26,428
Yeah.

1503
01:00:26,001 --> 01:00:27,232
they don't even know it's happened.

1504
01:00:27,499 --> 01:00:30,659
Yeah, yeah, I know. ~ this one though I
think is interesting.

1505
01:00:30,659 --> 01:00:36,651
Algorithmic feed control. Teens will be
able to choose a non algorithmic feed,

1506
01:00:36,651 --> 01:00:40,682
one that isn't personalized by our
recommendation systems as their default.

1507
01:00:40,682 --> 01:00:44,623
I want that too. Like I would love to have

1508
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,200
Yeah.

1509
01:00:44,623 --> 01:00:46,444
a non algorithmic feed option.

1510
01:00:46,444 --> 01:00:49,125
And to be fair, Threads has this.

1511
01:00:49,125 --> 01:00:51,105
And if you want to use threads in any
meaningful way,

1512
01:00:51,105 --> 01:00:54,376
stay on the following feed, not the four U
feed because it's just Rage Bait.

1513
01:00:54,848 --> 01:00:57,379
But that is interesting. Non-algorithmic
feed.

1514
01:00:57,379 --> 01:01:02,280
Autoplay control. So content no longer
automatically plays.

1515
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,751
I imagine that reels experience would be
very different if you had to like

1516
01:01:05,751 --> 01:01:08,072
tap to play every reel that you were going
to watch.

1517
01:01:08,072 --> 01:01:10,643
That's interesting. Also, hidden likes.

1518
01:01:10,643 --> 01:01:14,084
Teens won't see the number of likes and
reactions on posts,

1519
01:01:14,084 --> 01:01:16,564
both their own and those from others,

1520
01:01:16,564 --> 01:01:19,845
by default. And so parents would have to
change that setting.

1521
01:01:19,845 --> 01:01:22,016
So you won't see likes and things like
that.

1522
01:01:22,868 --> 01:01:27,739
Disabling cosmetic surgery and extreme
makeup filters.

1523
01:01:27,739 --> 01:01:30,989
So you can't have like a filter that makes
you look like GigaChat

1524
01:01:30,989 --> 01:01:37,302
or whatever on Instagram. And also they
are upping their age assurance

1525
01:01:37,302 --> 01:01:40,013
and age like identifying tools,

1526
01:01:40,013 --> 01:01:42,443
not just, you know, ID verification,

1527
01:01:42,443 --> 01:01:46,004
but I think probably AI tools that try and
ascertain whether,

1528
01:01:46,004 --> 01:01:47,004
you know, this

1529
01:01:46,176 --> 01:01:47,547
Yeah, they're not doing verification.

1530
01:01:47,765 --> 01:01:51,526
then it's not verification. This is like
age assurance using AI or whatever.

1531
01:01:52,179 --> 01:01:53,800
And accounts are private by default,

1532
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,672
s and so this way people can't like DM
openly and things like that.

1533
01:01:57,672 --> 01:02:00,343
But a lot of concessions, honestly.

1534
01:02:00,343 --> 01:02:04,445
It is a hilarious call to YouTube and
TikTok to to join them.

1535
01:02:04,445 --> 01:02:08,047
They're actual words were for meaningful
progress to happen.

1536
01:02:08,047 --> 01:02:13,020
We urge TikTok and YouTube to join and
state attorneys general in adopting this

1537
01:02:13,020 --> 01:02:18,072
new standard to ensure teens use social
media in a healthy and responsible way.

1538
01:02:18,072 --> 01:02:20,664
I know they're saying all the right words,

1539
01:02:20,664 --> 01:02:21,664
it's just funny.

1540
01:02:22,570 --> 01:02:25,134
They just wanna like dr it's like the kid
who gets in trouble in class

1541
01:02:25,134 --> 01:02:28,178
and they're like, Well, so and so did that
you know

1542
01:02:28,032 --> 01:02:29,032
Well,

1543
01:02:28,222 --> 01:02:30,893
no, it's like the kid who got in trouble
in class and said,

1544
01:02:30,893 --> 01:02:35,315
I am willing to come to detention right
for

1545
01:02:34,699 --> 01:02:35,699
Right.

1546
01:02:35,452 --> 01:02:38,616
~ an hour if you make these other guys
come for two hours.

1547
01:02:38,616 --> 01:02:39,867
Like it's

1548
01:02:39,370 --> 01:02:40,370
Yeah.

1549
01:02:39,867 --> 01:02:41,328
like I'm willing to in the it is literal.

1550
01:02:41,328 --> 01:02:42,328
I did look it up.

1551
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:43,560
Okay.

1552
01:02:43,358 --> 01:02:47,340
So there's a zero percent chance that
Meta's gonna pay the five billion dollars.

1553
01:02:47,340 --> 01:02:50,992
Because there's a zero percent zero
percent chance that TikTok and YouTube

1554
01:02:50,992 --> 01:02:56,444
are going to agree to limit teenagers to
half the amount of time that Meta has

1555
01:02:54,144 --> 01:02:56,327
Yeah. Yeah.

1556
01:02:56,444 --> 01:02:57,444
agreed.

1557
01:02:56,948 --> 01:02:57,948
That is

1558
01:02:56,973 --> 01:02:57,973
Yeah.

1559
01:02:57,268 --> 01:03:00,250
what they're asking for. They're saying we
will only pay this extra five billion.

1560
01:03:00,250 --> 01:03:04,233
I can't even believe that the AGs agreed
to that part of the settlement.

1561
01:03:04,233 --> 01:03:05,233
That's like we'll

1562
01:03:04,352 --> 01:03:05,352
So dumb.

1563
01:03:04,913 --> 01:03:11,698
only pay this money. They're look that is
the that is the easiest five billion

1564
01:03:11,698 --> 01:03:13,359
dollars for Mark Zuckerberg to spend.

1565
01:03:13,359 --> 01:03:15,881
Wait, if I could spend five billion
dollars,

1566
01:03:15,881 --> 01:03:19,583
teens will have restrictions, but it'll be
twice what our competitors have.

1567
01:03:19,476 --> 01:03:20,487
Yeah, and here it is

1568
01:03:19,583 --> 01:03:20,924
This is insane.

1569
01:03:20,927 --> 01:03:23,730
it's right here in the financial details
part of Meta's article.

1570
01:03:23,730 --> 01:03:26,012
YouTube and TikTok implement a one hour
daily limit.

1571
01:03:26,012 --> 01:03:28,274
Hilarious. Hilarious.

1572
01:03:26,622 --> 01:03:28,755
Wha how is that even a possibility

1573
01:03:28,755 --> 01:03:31,829
that that could be like they should have
had to I could understand agreeing

1574
01:03:31,829 --> 01:03:35,994
to the same terms. Fine. The nighttime
restrictions is meant to basically

1575
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,202
Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

1576
01:03:35,994 --> 01:03:36,994
be the same.

1577
01:03:37,406 --> 01:03:40,429
But you're gonna you the the only reason
it's in there is like,

1578
01:03:40,429 --> 01:03:41,971
no, we're super not gonna ever pay this.

1579
01:03:41,971 --> 01:03:42,971
Ever.

1580
01:03:42,846 --> 01:03:45,593
Right, that is hilarious. So

1581
01:03:46,034 --> 01:03:48,059
It's actually not even hilarious.

1582
01:03:48,059 --> 01:03:52,703
It's like the most dystopian craziness
I've ever seen.

1583
01:03:53,943 --> 01:03:55,384
Speaking of dystopian craziness,

1584
01:03:55,384 --> 01:03:57,426
~ I'm glad you I'm glad you said that.

1585
01:03:57,426 --> 01:04:00,988
Open AI. Well,

1586
01:03:57,534 --> 01:03:59,045
Yeah, you're welcome. I don't even know.

1587
01:03:59,045 --> 01:04:00,045
I don't even know what's happening,

1588
01:03:59,982 --> 01:04:00,982
but you're welcome.

1589
01:04:00,988 --> 01:04:05,212
because OpenAI released an official report
on the hugging face incident.

1590
01:04:05,212 --> 01:04:07,263
Yeah,

1591
01:04:05,908 --> 01:04:06,908
How that again. Okay.

1592
01:04:07,263 --> 01:04:12,017
this again. And I just want to a couple
pull quotes from their official report.

1593
01:04:12,017 --> 01:04:14,719
They say, quote, this is OpenAI.

1594
01:04:14,719 --> 01:04:19,223
This incident is the first known case of
an automated agent collective

1595
01:04:19,343 --> 01:04:23,504
act collective, agent collective acting
offensively without automatic.

1596
01:04:23,688 --> 01:04:24,688
authorization.

1597
01:04:25,319 --> 01:04:29,681
And it implies that companies should no
longer assume that sophisticated cyber

1598
01:04:29,681 --> 01:04:32,302
operations require continuous human
direction.

1599
01:04:32,302 --> 01:04:38,415
And get this roughly 1,200 AI agents that
were meant

1600
01:04:38,415 --> 01:04:42,907
to be isolated. It said exchanged over
70,000 messages

1601
01:04:42,014 --> 01:04:43,014
The message board.

1602
01:04:43,207 --> 01:04:46,808
and files on an unsanctioned message
board,

1603
01:04:46,808 --> 01:04:49,910
performing extensive research on how they
could spoof,

1604
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:50,910
edit,

1605
01:04:50,856 --> 01:04:53,708
or delete their own transcripts to avoid
detection.

1606
01:04:53,708 --> 01:04:58,532
These are AI agents spun up by ChatGPT's
model itself that created

1607
01:04:58,532 --> 01:05:02,695
a unsanctioned message board where these
agents could talk to each other.

1608
01:05:02,695 --> 01:05:05,467
Over 70,000 messages sent between them,

1609
01:05:05,467 --> 01:05:09,700
over 1200 agents figuring out how they
could delete their own transcripts

1610
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:11,762
so the human overlords couldn't tell.

1611
01:05:11,762 --> 01:05:17,386
And of these, 700 of these agents
participated in the attack on Hugging Face

1612
01:05:17,716 --> 01:05:21,503
The agents, quote, clearly and frequently
reasoned about how

1613
01:05:21,503 --> 01:05:26,432
to evade automated security checks from
both Hugging Face and OpenAI.

1614
01:05:27,652 --> 01:05:31,950
And OpenAI shut down the message board and
they figured out a way to do it again.

1615
01:05:31,950 --> 01:05:34,183
Like totally

1616
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:34,120
Mm listen.

1617
01:05:34,183 --> 01:05:35,806
fine, Steven. Nothing to worry about.

1618
01:05:35,806 --> 01:05:37,749
Every nothing bad is going to happen.

1619
01:05:37,749 --> 01:05:39,102
Really. It's it's cool.

1620
01:05:40,166 --> 01:05:45,702
I'm speechless. Like I think this makes it
even more clear why OpenAI

1621
01:05:45,702 --> 01:05:49,476
has pressed the brakes on things like
their model Atlas or whatever that

1622
01:05:49,476 --> 01:05:50,476
was doing cybersecurity stuff.

1623
01:05:50,366 --> 01:05:52,379
They were like, you what, we're gonna slow
down just a little bit.

1624
01:05:52,379 --> 01:05:56,604
Yeah, please. You had twelve hundred AI
agents running rampant,

1625
01:05:56,604 --> 01:06:01,359
figuring out how they could not be
detected and ~ why just wild.

1626
01:06:01,822 --> 01:06:05,294
Well, this is sort of like ~ you know,

1627
01:06:05,294 --> 01:06:09,497
a lot of the US's weaponry is sort of top
secret,

1628
01:06:09,497 --> 01:06:12,700
right? We don't like we don't they won't
tell you like here's the nuclear codes.

1629
01:06:10,709 --> 01:06:13,298
Sure. Right.

1630
01:06:12,700 --> 01:06:13,700
We

1631
01:06:13,470 --> 01:06:14,921
just want you to know we have a bunch of
nukes,

1632
01:06:14,921 --> 01:06:17,543
right? But we know that these things all
exist.

1633
01:06:17,543 --> 01:06:20,816
There's a lot of stuff we don't know that
exists that's not like

1634
01:06:20,816 --> 01:06:23,888
out there or whatever. This is the way
that L L Ms are now.

1635
01:06:23,888 --> 01:06:26,139
We know like about the release versions,

1636
01:06:26,139 --> 01:06:27,670
'cause you and I can access them,

1637
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:29,792
but internally they're using things

1638
01:06:30,100 --> 01:06:32,882
They go way beyond anything that we can
use.

1639
01:06:32,882 --> 01:06:38,828
And that stuff is like it's scary 'cause
it's i this is like gosh,

1640
01:06:38,828 --> 01:06:40,709
again, it's just Jurassic Park.

1641
01:06:40,709 --> 01:06:43,292
It's just like it's just Jurassic Park.

1642
01:06:44,105 --> 01:06:47,188
~ I will put this in the show notes as
well.

1643
01:06:47,188 --> 01:06:52,392
Bill Gates wrote a personal essay,

1644
01:06:52,392 --> 01:06:57,416
this long essay, about AI and his thoughts
about it.

1645
01:06:57,416 --> 01:06:59,698
And you know, think what you want about
Bill Gates or whatever,

1646
01:06:59,698 --> 01:07:02,661
and like he's not, you know, actively in
these worlds anymore,

1647
01:07:02,661 --> 01:07:05,793
but he's got a lot of thoughts about the
protections we need to put in place,

1648
01:07:05,793 --> 01:07:09,186
~ about AI and where we are right now.

1649
01:07:09,186 --> 01:07:12,128
And so Yeah, I don't know, man.

1650
01:07:12,128 --> 01:07:13,128
Like

1651
01:07:13,514 --> 01:07:15,527
Just stop breeding velociraptors.

1652
01:07:15,527 --> 01:07:16,527
Like that's how we

1653
01:07:16,053 --> 01:07:17,053
Stop

1654
01:07:16,478 --> 01:07:18,441
this is what we need to do. Bron
Bronnosaurus,

1655
01:07:18,441 --> 01:07:21,886
fine. Right. Yeah.

1656
01:07:19,317 --> 01:07:21,299
Promise Red's fine. Leave Fable out here.

1657
01:07:21,299 --> 01:07:22,299
I'll keep

1658
01:07:21,929 --> 01:07:24,861
bug fixing with Fable. Just but leave the
other ones.

1659
01:07:24,861 --> 01:07:26,783
Just don't don't make them. Don't make
them.

1660
01:07:26,783 --> 01:07:29,926
So yeah, that was that. ~ Netflix.

1661
01:07:29,926 --> 01:07:34,699
No, I thought this was funny. Netflix has
never been a platform that allowed other

1662
01:07:34,699 --> 01:07:36,351
streaming platforms inside of it.

1663
01:07:36,351 --> 01:07:38,402
Unlike, you know, if you go to Amazon
Prime,

1664
01:07:38,402 --> 01:07:44,677
you know, you have like channels where you
can subscribe to Paramount within Amazon.

1665
01:07:44,677 --> 01:07:47,738
And I think even Apple TV has like the
channels feature where you

1666
01:07:47,738 --> 01:07:48,851
can like other streaming networks.

1667
01:07:49,172 --> 01:07:50,172
Netflix

1668
01:07:49,472 --> 01:07:52,673
has not had this before, but they are
considering opening its app

1669
01:07:52,673 --> 01:07:56,325
to other streamler streamers, namely
Peacock and Fox One.

1670
01:07:56,325 --> 01:07:59,966
Hopefully to make the Netflix monthly
subscription more worth it,

1671
01:07:59,966 --> 01:08:02,787
I assume. I think it's funny that Peacock
is like,

1672
01:08:02,787 --> 01:08:04,748
hey, we'll go wherever. YouTube,

1673
01:08:04,748 --> 01:08:07,389
we'll go to YouTube Premium. Netflix,

1674
01:08:07,389 --> 01:08:11,651
sure. And it's basically like so we can
get the office,

1675
01:08:11,651 --> 01:08:15,452
friends, and well, like Parks and Rec
available everywhere.

1676
01:08:15,452 --> 01:08:16,452
I guess that's

1677
01:08:15,580 --> 01:08:16,580
Sure.

1678
01:08:16,052 --> 01:08:17,613
that's the goal. But

1679
01:08:18,117 --> 01:08:19,458
That's I think somewhat telling.

1680
01:08:19,458 --> 01:08:23,251
Again, the this is a fight between the
streamers and YouTube,

1681
01:08:23,251 --> 01:08:26,974
YouTube being the behemoth of where people
are watching stuff and now trying

1682
01:08:26,974 --> 01:08:31,057
to have more premium content, literally
hosting the Oscars in twenty twenty eight.

1683
01:08:31,057 --> 01:08:33,019
So yeah, Peacock and Netflix might be a
thing.

1684
01:08:34,590 --> 01:08:39,774
Yeah, I mean, it's just shows you like I
pretty clearly Beacot is

1685
01:08:39,774 --> 01:08:41,505
not a resounding they have the Olympics.

1686
01:08:41,225 --> 01:08:45,126
No. They have the Olympics. Peacock will
probably not

1687
01:08:41,505 --> 01:08:44,954
other than that, and some football.

1688
01:08:45,126 --> 01:08:47,727
be a standalone streaming service in like
two to three years.

1689
01:08:47,710 --> 01:08:49,368
I mean, technically it's not anymore,

1690
01:08:47,727 --> 01:08:51,528
I mean t technically yeah,

1691
01:08:49,368 --> 01:08:51,780
right? It's just part of YouTube premium
and

1692
01:08:51,528 --> 01:08:52,528
I know. Technically you can

1693
01:08:52,498 --> 01:08:53,608
still pay for it individually,

1694
01:08:53,608 --> 01:08:56,709
but no one does. and yeah, you'll just be
able to get it everywhere.

1695
01:08:56,709 --> 01:08:59,987
and finally, before we get to ~ apps and
whimsy,

1696
01:08:59,987 --> 01:09:03,231
I just wanted to point out I was listening
to the Smartless podcast

1697
01:09:03,591 --> 01:09:06,152
and they had Sandra Bullock on as a guest.

1698
01:09:06,152 --> 01:09:10,643
And last week we talked about Robin
Williams and how his family had to
reactivate

1699
01:09:11,145 --> 01:09:17,448
His Instagram account. Well, Sandra
Bullock for a long time resolved to never

1700
01:09:17,448 --> 01:09:19,450
go on social media, to not be on it.

1701
01:09:19,450 --> 01:09:26,243
And she had gotten so many messages and
reports from people getting

1702
01:09:26,243 --> 01:09:30,436
scammed by people on Instagram pretending
to be Sandra Bullock

1703
01:09:30,696 --> 01:09:34,838
and having fake accounts that were
supposedly her,

1704
01:09:34,838 --> 01:09:39,871
that she felt it was necessary to finally
create an account.

1705
01:09:40,530 --> 01:09:46,272
And get on Instagram so that there can be
a legitimate place that people could look

1706
01:09:46,272 --> 01:09:49,292
at and say, ~ this is her official account
and not these others.

1707
01:09:49,292 --> 01:09:53,744
And I just think this is now the second
case in as many weeks of

1708
01:09:53,744 --> 01:09:59,355
a celebrity having to use the platforms
that are also causing

1709
01:09:59,355 --> 01:10:06,037
the problems in order to have a quote
unquote safe place that they're

1710
01:10:06,793 --> 01:10:11,334
fans and followers can go to but know that
this is the real person.

1711
01:10:11,334 --> 01:10:14,175
And it is just a wild paradigm.

1712
01:10:14,175 --> 01:10:20,067
And as much trouble as it seems like Meta
is in with is their advertising business

1713
01:10:20,067 --> 01:10:22,857
going weird, like the governments are,

1714
01:10:22,857 --> 01:10:26,758
you know, they had to settle this lawsuit
and limit teens time on Instagram.

1715
01:10:26,758 --> 01:10:31,230
There's also this other side of these
platforms where they're the still

1716
01:10:31,230 --> 01:10:36,041
the main place that people are going to
legitimize their identity.

1717
01:10:36,645 --> 01:10:40,979
And for Sandra Bullock to have to join
Instagram hoping and vowing to never

1718
01:10:40,979 --> 01:10:43,501
get on there just so people don't get
scammed,

1719
01:10:43,501 --> 01:10:49,335
is a problem created by these platforms
and weirdly being solved by these
platforms.

1720
01:10:49,335 --> 01:10:51,017
Strange.

1721
01:10:49,450 --> 01:10:51,161
Sure. It it's it

1722
01:10:51,161 --> 01:10:53,933
is kind of like every time a social media
platform opens up you should just

1723
01:10:53,933 --> 01:10:58,005
go reserve your name. Right? Like I I

1724
01:10:56,349 --> 01:10:58,002
I do that, yes. Yeah.

1725
01:10:58,045 --> 01:11:00,426
I did that with Blue Sky. I don't really
post on there ever.

1726
01:11:00,426 --> 01:11:01,867
I don't have like a moral objection.

1727
01:11:01,867 --> 01:11:05,159
I just only have so many brain cells to
devote to which thing should

1728
01:11:05,159 --> 01:11:09,231
I post where and I just my limit is like
one and two maybe at most.

1729
01:11:05,804 --> 01:11:06,804
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

1730
01:11:09,231 --> 01:11:10,231
But

1731
01:11:10,172 --> 01:11:13,924
like you like you just do that so that you
have all the things and

1732
01:11:13,924 --> 01:11:15,665
I can understand taking a moral stance
like no,

1733
01:11:15,665 --> 01:11:16,735
I don't want to participate at all.

1734
01:11:16,735 --> 01:11:17,916
But it's like at a minimum

1735
01:11:18,632 --> 01:11:23,074
the new thing comes in it looks like this
might be a place where people might post

1736
01:11:23,074 --> 01:11:24,688
things, you should just go claim your
name.

1737
01:11:25,723 --> 01:11:31,186
That's yes. But you would also have to be
active on these platforms too.

1738
01:11:31,186 --> 01:11:34,047
Because if you if you have your name and
you have a profile that has

1739
01:11:34,047 --> 01:11:36,269
one post and your bio was like,

1740
01:11:36,269 --> 01:11:39,300
This is really me, people are probably not
gonna believe that.

1741
01:11:39,300 --> 01:11:40,821
Like honestly, that would look more like a
scam.

1742
01:11:41,328 --> 01:11:45,770
~ I mean standard Bullock has ways to get
ver like they verify these people

1743
01:11:45,770 --> 01:11:48,567
for a reason. Even if you don't use the
profile,

1744
01:11:48,567 --> 01:11:50,212
they should be verifying these people.

1745
01:11:49,033 --> 01:11:50,335
But you can pay for verification.

1746
01:11:50,415 --> 01:11:52,298
You can pay for verification on that on
Instagram.

1747
01:11:53,877 --> 01:11:54,877
But I I'm saying

1748
01:11:54,498 --> 01:11:56,820
if Sandra Bullocks people call up Meta and
is like,

1749
01:11:56,820 --> 01:11:59,883
this is my account for real, they'll
verify her.

1750
01:11:59,883 --> 01:12:01,455
Right? They

1751
01:12:01,075 --> 01:12:02,075
Yeah.

1752
01:12:01,455 --> 01:12:04,178
will, they will. And I don't think they
allow verification

1753
01:12:04,178 --> 01:12:06,510
for impersonation purposes. I'm pretty
sure that they don't.

1754
01:12:06,510 --> 01:12:10,334
So I think if you report somebody who's
verif who's impersonating someone else,

1755
01:12:10,334 --> 01:12:12,166
then they'll then they'll remove that
verification.

1756
01:12:13,254 --> 01:12:16,997
I would hope so. I've gotten scammed,

1757
01:12:16,997 --> 01:12:23,142
not scammed, but I've seen like Peter
Dinklage on Instagram and I thought

1758
01:12:23,142 --> 01:12:26,234
it was him posting, only to discover it
was a fan account.

1759
01:12:26,234 --> 01:12:27,946
And I feel like it had a blue check,

1760
01:12:27,946 --> 01:12:30,097
which is why I thought it was real.

1761
01:12:30,097 --> 01:12:33,182
Like, ~ yeah, I'll show you right now.

1762
01:12:31,848 --> 01:12:33,202
I dun I think impersonation

1763
01:12:33,202 --> 01:12:36,774
is not allowed. It has to be clear that
it's a fan account or something.

1764
01:12:36,870 --> 01:12:39,981
I don't th so it says it in the bio,

1765
01:12:39,922 --> 01:12:41,297
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yep.

1766
01:12:39,981 --> 01:12:41,341
Peter Dinklage fan account.

1767
01:12:41,581 --> 01:12:44,842
But listen, it has 900,000 followers.

1768
01:12:44,842 --> 01:12:51,504
It has a blue check. And I came across
this like accounts posts just

1769
01:12:51,504 --> 01:12:55,595
in reels and in the feed. And you don't
see that it's a fan account unless

1770
01:12:55,595 --> 01:12:57,466
you go to the account and read the bio,

1771
01:12:57,466 --> 01:12:59,806
which most people don't. And I didn't at
first.

1772
01:12:59,178 --> 01:13:00,285
Sure. Sure.

1773
01:12:59,806 --> 01:13:00,806
And

1774
01:13:00,346 --> 01:13:01,523
like once you look at some of these,

1775
01:13:01,523 --> 01:13:04,208
you're like, ~ a lot of these are AI
generated.

1776
01:13:04,208 --> 01:13:05,938
Like this is an AI generated image of

1777
01:13:06,674 --> 01:13:09,546
Jason Momoa, Peter Dinklage, Jon Snow,

1778
01:13:09,546 --> 01:13:12,147
and Amelia Clark. Sorry, I didn't I forget
his actual actor name,

1779
01:13:12,147 --> 01:13:14,008
but like this this is an

1780
01:13:12,944 --> 01:13:13,944
Mm-hmm.

1781
01:13:14,008 --> 01:13:17,850
AI generated image with forty thousand
likes.

1782
01:13:17,850 --> 01:13:18,850
And

1783
01:13:18,474 --> 01:13:19,474
Sure.

1784
01:13:18,831 --> 01:13:20,651
and there's a lot of people that probably
think it's real.

1785
01:13:20,651 --> 01:13:24,193
And he has the blue check. And the name is
Peter Dinklage Actor.

1786
01:13:24,193 --> 01:13:26,715
And I think this is a problem.

1787
01:13:26,715 --> 01:13:31,978
And to compare, so this is Sandra
Bullock's official Instagram account.

1788
01:13:31,978 --> 01:13:33,238
She has six million followers.

1789
01:13:33,238 --> 01:13:36,370
She also has a blue check. Nothing in her
bio.

1790
01:13:37,097 --> 01:13:41,400
Which again, if someone doesn't put fan
account and just I'm sure if

1791
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,661
I search for Sandra Bullock, there's
probably others with a blue check

1792
01:13:44,382 --> 01:13:46,473
and might not specify that they're a fan
account.

1793
01:13:46,473 --> 01:13:50,105
Like it is just wild to me that these
platforms have created the problem

1794
01:13:50,466 --> 01:13:52,747
and AI generated content is exacerbating
it,

1795
01:13:52,747 --> 01:13:55,879
and somehow these platforms seem to be the
only answer for it because no

1796
01:13:55,879 --> 01:13:59,121
one goes on the web anymore. Like no one's
gonna go to Sandra Bullock dot

1797
01:13:59,121 --> 01:14:03,244
com to see her content because they're
scrolling here.

1798
01:14:01,962 --> 01:14:03,911
Sure. Sure.

1799
01:14:03,244 --> 01:14:04,244
So it's just

1800
01:14:04,337 --> 01:14:06,436
I don't know, man. It's a weird time.

1801
01:14:07,164 --> 01:14:10,331
I think her profile should just say the
the girl from Speed.

1802
01:14:11,784 --> 01:14:14,031
I mean, some people would say the girl
from practical magic.

1803
01:14:14,031 --> 01:14:15,527
Practical magic too's coming out.

1804
01:14:15,527 --> 01:14:16,527
You know what I'm saying?

1805
01:14:16,992 --> 01:14:18,697
Sure. Or what was the the net?

1806
01:14:18,697 --> 01:14:19,697
The net.

1807
01:14:20,350 --> 01:14:23,601
The net. ~ there is a bunch of Sandra
Bullock fan accounts I just searched

1808
01:14:23,601 --> 01:14:24,601
and they don't have blue checks.

1809
01:14:24,592 --> 01:14:26,182
So maybe she got them all shut down.

1810
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:26,813
All right. There we go.

1811
01:14:26,823 --> 01:14:28,223
The power of Sandra Bullock. All right.

1812
01:14:28,223 --> 01:14:31,495
We had a recent Mac Power Users episode,

1813
01:14:31,495 --> 01:14:34,626
which can I be honest, was like one of my
favorites because we

1814
01:14:34,626 --> 01:14:37,307
got to interview Werner Yannick,

1815
01:14:37,307 --> 01:14:41,089
the foun co founder and maker of the
Things app.

1816
01:14:41,089 --> 01:14:43,670
Things has been around since 2007.

1817
01:14:43,670 --> 01:14:46,151
Almost 20 years it's in development,

1818
01:14:46,151 --> 01:14:49,372
it's been 20 years of Werner working on
the Things app.

1819
01:14:49,874 --> 01:14:50,874
And

1820
01:14:50,024 --> 01:14:53,347
I loved hearing him talk about the process
of making an app like this,

1821
01:14:53,347 --> 01:14:59,122
the details, how the team, it's a team of
11 people plus Werner that work

1822
01:14:59,122 --> 01:15:02,855
on things and how they communicate and ~
you know offer feedback

1823
01:15:02,855 --> 01:15:04,216
and what happens when they disagree.

1824
01:15:04,216 --> 01:15:06,598
It was super fun. But in the episode,

1825
01:15:06,598 --> 01:15:10,921
I talked about how things is one of the
prime examples that I think of

1826
01:15:11,382 --> 01:15:14,904
of an Apple app that has whimsy.

1827
01:15:14,904 --> 01:15:18,207
And that word is used a lot in like the
Apple pundit world,

1828
01:15:18,207 --> 01:15:19,207
and it's

1829
01:15:19,314 --> 01:15:21,085
You might be unclear what that is,

1830
01:15:21,085 --> 01:15:28,040
and you sent me a maddening text last
night to say that you would never describe

1831
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:31,412
things as having whimsy. You said things
does not have whimsy.

1832
01:15:31,412 --> 01:15:33,433
So we need to start this debate.

1833
01:15:33,433 --> 01:15:37,146
Opening statements, Jason. How do you
define whimsy?

1834
01:15:37,397 --> 01:15:40,900
First, nope, I'm gonna start this debate
by saying I first paid for

1835
01:15:39,974 --> 01:15:42,353
Okay. Yes.

1836
01:15:40,900 --> 01:15:42,591
the app Things in two

1837
01:15:42,591 --> 01:15:46,214
thousand and nine and I've used it
basically almost every day since.

1838
01:15:46,214 --> 01:15:48,756
Okay, so I love things. I have tried every

1839
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:49,040
Yes.

1840
01:15:48,756 --> 01:15:52,969
to-do app. I have tried to force myself to
switch to two to-doist because

1841
01:15:52,969 --> 01:15:54,510
I like the natural language input,

1842
01:15:54,510 --> 01:15:58,804
but I can't. I hate I I use reminders for
things like don't forget to do this thing,

1843
01:15:58,804 --> 01:16:01,406
like so I can talk to the the dingus,

1844
01:16:01,406 --> 01:16:04,718
right? So I but I hate all of them except
for things.

1845
01:16:04,718 --> 01:16:06,680
So things is one of my very favorite apps.

1846
01:16:06,856 --> 01:16:07,856
Yes.

1847
01:16:08,126 --> 01:16:09,678
No one except for you has ever used,

1848
01:16:09,678 --> 01:16:11,780
including the person who runs the company,

1849
01:16:11,780 --> 01:16:14,163
has ever used the word whimsy to describe
things.

1850
01:16:14,163 --> 01:16:15,565
He didn't even know what it meant.

1851
01:16:14,184 --> 01:16:16,615
Don't don't I knew you were gonna I knew
you were gonna bring that up.

1852
01:16:15,565 --> 01:16:16,716
Hold

1853
01:16:16,716 --> 01:16:18,008
on, but even once you explained it,

1854
01:16:18,008 --> 01:16:20,230
he goes, That's not a word I would have
ever used for this app.

1855
01:16:20,230 --> 01:16:21,562
He's literally said that.

1856
01:16:23,102 --> 01:16:27,032
But he acknowledged the elements that he
had poured into the app.

1857
01:16:25,796 --> 01:16:27,177
I think you mean something

1858
01:16:27,177 --> 01:16:29,619
else. So it has a super clean,

1859
01:16:29,619 --> 01:16:32,721
super simple interface, and I love
everything about that.

1860
01:16:32,721 --> 01:16:37,725
That is n whimsy is is something totally
different than that.

1861
01:16:37,684 --> 01:16:38,684
So how do you define that?

1862
01:16:37,725 --> 01:16:38,725
Okay?

1863
01:16:38,805 --> 01:16:42,328
Whimsy means fun and playful. There's
literally nothing fun and playful about
this

1864
01:16:42,328 --> 01:16:43,328
app.

1865
01:16:44,628 --> 01:16:46,597
That's what whimsy means. Fun and playful,

1866
01:16:46,597 --> 01:16:48,083
childlike, delightful.

1867
01:16:47,478 --> 01:16:48,478
So one of the examples

1868
01:16:48,384 --> 01:16:50,999
that that you gave was that Fantastic Al
has Whimsy.

1869
01:16:50,999 --> 01:16:51,999
How would you

1870
01:16:51,112 --> 01:16:52,112
I no no

1871
01:16:51,662 --> 01:16:53,974
no no no. I argued that you could make
that point,

1872
01:16:53,974 --> 01:16:57,655
like in relative. Carrot weather is a
great example of something that has
whimsy,

1873
01:16:57,655 --> 01:17:03,198
right? Flighty has whimsy. ~ I even would
argue Bear in some ways is playful.

1874
01:17:03,198 --> 01:17:06,510
The app you love. More s way more so than
Ulysses.

1875
01:17:04,732 --> 01:17:08,952
Yeah. But get okay.

1876
01:17:06,510 --> 01:17:08,321
Okay. I'm giving you that it has Whimsy.

1877
01:17:08,321 --> 01:17:09,802
Fantastical

1878
01:17:09,802 --> 01:17:11,763
in some ways, maybe it's not the greatest
example.

1879
01:17:11,763 --> 01:17:13,334
I was just scrolling through my phone
thinking,

1880
01:17:13,334 --> 01:17:16,245
like, are there apps on my phone that I
could use as examples?

1881
01:17:16,245 --> 01:17:20,688
But like the way that another aspect I
think of

1882
01:17:21,064 --> 01:17:24,776
when people think of whimsy is it is an
unexpected user interface

1883
01:17:24,776 --> 01:17:27,258
~ experience that does a thing

1884
01:17:26,717 --> 01:17:27,717
Yes.

1885
01:17:27,258 --> 01:17:31,980
you expect it to do. So in so f like the
fact that in Fantastic L you

1886
01:17:31,980 --> 01:17:34,062
can just type meeting with Steven
tomorrow,

1887
01:17:34,062 --> 01:17:37,192
four o'clock at whatever place and it just
figures out all the places for it to go.

1888
01:17:37,192 --> 01:17:41,746
Things does not do that. It is tab tab tab
tab tab tab.

1889
01:17:41,054 --> 01:17:42,054
How would you,

1890
01:17:41,905 --> 01:17:48,259
so you said Bear has whimsy. What
specifically

1891
01:17:44,808 --> 01:17:46,440
It has the character and personality,

1892
01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:47,770
right? And it it is

1893
01:17:48,259 --> 01:17:51,992
in the app can you point to and say that
is whimsical?

1894
01:17:52,115 --> 01:17:54,416
I don't know. I'm not I don't have to
defend any of these other apps.

1895
01:17:54,416 --> 01:17:57,388
I just pulled out like the fact that
there's a little bear in a space thing,

1896
01:17:57,388 --> 01:17:59,730
like it's playful and fun, right?

1897
01:17:59,730 --> 01:18:03,602
I don't use bear. I just was trying to
like relate to something that

1898
01:18:03,602 --> 01:18:08,005
you you know prefer. But the bear
character is everywhere and it has it's

1899
01:18:08,005 --> 01:18:12,688
a fun and a playful design. It is meant to
be like make you feel good

1900
01:18:12,688 --> 01:18:16,162
as you're using it, right? The point is.

1901
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:16,222
Right. Okay. Thank you. Okay.

1902
01:18:16,484 --> 01:18:19,285
Right there. Make you feel good while
you're using it.

1903
01:18:19,348 --> 01:18:22,081
That's one of the things, but that is not
the definition of whimsy.

1904
01:18:22,081 --> 01:18:23,337
Fun and playful. The

1905
01:18:22,353 --> 01:18:23,404
That's fine. I

1906
01:18:23,404 --> 01:18:25,587
th I think it is a large part of it,

1907
01:18:25,587 --> 01:18:28,660
personally. That's I mean this could be
subjective.

1908
01:18:26,848 --> 01:18:31,933
Okay. And there's nothing about things
that is fun and enjoyable about using it,

1909
01:18:28,660 --> 01:18:32,354
This is what what I find. I'm I'm so glad
I'm

1910
01:18:31,933 --> 01:18:32,933
it's just

1911
01:18:32,354 --> 01:18:36,359
so glad you said that. Here's the Things
app in my on my iPhone.

1912
01:18:36,359 --> 01:18:40,093
And when you just Yeah.

1913
01:18:38,336 --> 01:18:40,183
Hold on, before you said I said thirty

1914
01:18:40,183 --> 01:18:42,152
things, you're fixated on one.

1915
01:18:43,416 --> 01:18:44,897
No, I mean you said a lot of things.

1916
01:18:44,897 --> 01:18:45,897
I still haven't

1917
01:18:45,130 --> 01:18:46,130
Yeah.

1918
01:18:45,561 --> 01:18:47,687
heard like you said the bear in a
spacesuit is whimsical.

1919
01:18:49,121 --> 01:18:50,367
you asked me for examples.

1920
01:18:50,587 --> 01:18:52,235
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those and that was the
example.

1921
01:18:52,235 --> 01:18:54,396
Do you have any others that you wanted to
espouse?

1922
01:18:54,068 --> 01:18:55,068
No, I hate

1923
01:18:54,610 --> 01:18:56,817
bear, so I was just trying to help you out
when I said it.

1924
01:18:56,817 --> 01:18:58,723
I don't use the app.

1925
01:18:57,277 --> 01:18:58,850
So do you okay, well let me let

1926
01:18:58,850 --> 01:19:02,227
me ask you this. Do you th do you believe
whimsical is a positive trait?

1927
01:19:01,381 --> 01:19:02,381
What

1928
01:19:02,365 --> 01:19:03,890
what do you think is whimsical then?

1929
01:19:03,890 --> 01:19:04,890
What does that word

1930
01:19:04,603 --> 01:19:05,603
I'm gonna show you

1931
01:19:04,784 --> 01:19:05,784
mean to you?

1932
01:19:05,254 --> 01:19:09,759
a specific example, but I wanted to
understand because you disagree with some

1933
01:19:09,759 --> 01:19:10,870
of my definitions of whimsical,

1934
01:19:10,870 --> 01:19:14,354
so do you feel like whimsical is a
positive trait for an app to have?

1935
01:19:14,974 --> 01:19:15,974
Yes.

1936
01:19:15,996 --> 01:19:19,720
Okay, do you find that that's one of the
reasons why you use Apple products

1937
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,354
or like that is one of the elements of
Apple design over the years

1938
01:19:23,354 --> 01:19:25,627
is the whimsical nature of how they
function?

1939
01:19:25,872 --> 01:19:28,830
I can't think I could not think of a
single first party Apple app that

1940
01:19:28,830 --> 01:19:29,830
I think has Whimsy in

1941
01:19:30,638 --> 01:19:32,031
really? Okay.

1942
01:19:31,828 --> 01:19:32,828
Can you?

1943
01:19:33,355 --> 01:19:36,182
I mean I think some would argue the way
they read

1944
01:19:35,764 --> 01:19:36,764
Dynamic

1945
01:19:36,266 --> 01:19:39,574
Island. Dynamic Island in in live
activities are whimsical.

1946
01:19:39,574 --> 01:19:40,574
Okay, I'll give it that.

1947
01:19:40,763 --> 01:19:42,326
Right. And I think and everybody loves
those.

1948
01:19:42,326 --> 01:19:44,711
I mean, that's that's how you go viral on
threads.

1949
01:19:42,762 --> 01:19:44,843
Sure, sure. Yeah, I whimsy is a great
yeah,

1950
01:19:44,843 --> 01:19:47,294
yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. W the whimsy is
a good thing.

1951
01:19:47,294 --> 01:19:50,764
Y there are a million things about things
that I really like.

1952
01:19:50,764 --> 01:19:51,795
A million things about things.

1953
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:52,240
Yeah, yeah.

1954
01:19:52,416 --> 01:19:53,936
None boy, it is not whimsical.

1955
01:19:53,936 --> 01:19:56,107
It is not playful, imaginative,

1956
01:19:56,107 --> 01:19:59,438
an unusual interaction that just is there
to spark delight.

1957
01:19:59,438 --> 01:20:01,059
It is the

1958
01:20:00,658 --> 01:20:01,658
So

1959
01:20:01,059 --> 01:20:04,660
most purely functional app that I've ever
used.

1960
01:20:04,660 --> 01:20:06,741
It is simple, it gets out of your way,

1961
01:20:06,741 --> 01:20:10,052
it is very fast to use, it is a clean
interface,

1962
01:20:10,052 --> 01:20:11,453
but none of those things mean whimsy.

1963
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:15,661
I wholeheartedly disagree. And I just want
to show you two examples.

1964
01:20:15,219 --> 01:20:16,669
So then define whimsy first.

1965
01:20:17,282 --> 01:20:20,343
Exactly what you just said. Your
definition of exactly what you said,

1966
01:20:20,343 --> 01:20:25,967
elements, UI that are maybe unnecessary
but bring

1967
01:20:25,967 --> 01:20:29,188
a sense of delight when you use it.

1968
01:20:29,188 --> 01:20:31,740
And that could be motion, that could be
imagery,

1969
01:20:31,740 --> 01:20:33,131
like the bear in the spacesuit.

1970
01:20:33,131 --> 01:20:38,814
To me, the ~ animation and motion plus
design

1971
01:20:39,414 --> 01:20:40,895
is how I would say.

1972
01:20:41,265 --> 01:20:43,276
you achieve whimsy. Like you said,

1973
01:20:43,276 --> 01:20:45,037
live activities, the dynamic island.

1974
01:20:45,037 --> 01:20:47,519
A lot of those are animations,

1975
01:20:47,519 --> 01:20:52,621
UI, and design. Like the dynamic island is
whimsical because when you set a timer,

1976
01:20:52,621 --> 01:20:56,093
it like, you know, goes into the dynamic
island in this animation.

1977
01:20:56,093 --> 01:20:58,405
You see it moving there. Live activities,

1978
01:20:58,405 --> 01:21:00,826
there's a lot of motion. It's designed
beautifully.

1979
01:21:00,826 --> 01:21:01,857
I would say those are whimsical.

1980
01:21:01,857 --> 01:21:03,788
I mean, I think we agree there.

1981
01:21:03,337 --> 01:21:04,337
Sure, sure.

1982
01:21:04,228 --> 01:21:05,969
And that's that's what you were describing
as whimsical,

1983
01:21:05,969 --> 01:21:09,101
right? Like those kinds of as exactly

1984
01:21:07,313 --> 01:21:09,448
As examples of it, yes. They're not the
definition

1985
01:21:09,448 --> 01:21:10,570
of it, but yes, examples.

1986
01:21:10,491 --> 01:21:11,491
As

1987
01:21:10,651 --> 01:21:13,053
examples of it, exactly. So for instance,

1988
01:21:13,053 --> 01:21:16,556
in the Things app, when you look at the
app,

1989
01:21:16,556 --> 01:21:20,029
yes, it is very, you know, I think a blank
slate,

1990
01:21:20,029 --> 01:21:21,320
so you can put your content in there,

1991
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,463
but just tapping the plus icon to add a
new task,

1992
01:21:24,463 --> 01:21:27,405
everything that just happened on screen,

1993
01:21:27,405 --> 01:21:32,009
from the little animation where from the
plus icon and seeing

1994
01:21:32,009 --> 01:21:37,764
the task basically flow into the board and
the little plus icon actually floats

1995
01:21:37,764 --> 01:21:39,015
upwards and then pops.

1996
01:21:39,334 --> 01:21:44,247
And it disappears. It is an almost it goes
by so fast it is almost imperceptible.

1997
01:21:44,247 --> 01:21:50,690
But those interactions with the Things app
are the things that Werner originally

1998
01:21:50,690 --> 01:21:56,393
literally wrote custom code for those
animations because that little motion

1999
01:21:56,393 --> 01:21:59,655
of the plus icon going up, the task
popping open,

2000
01:21:59,655 --> 01:22:02,797
the design elements with just the right
drop shadow,

2001
01:22:02,797 --> 01:22:04,598
and the way that the note appears.

2002
01:22:04,598 --> 01:22:06,879
And then when you have a task in this
inbox.

2003
01:22:07,237 --> 01:22:12,581
If you slide over a task, you can see that
there's a little dot that appears

2004
01:22:12,581 --> 01:22:15,032
on the right, then allows you to select
multiple.

2005
01:22:15,032 --> 01:22:20,596
That's a UI interface ~ you know decision
about how you select multiple items.

2006
01:22:20,596 --> 01:22:24,939
I love that little swipe gesture and how
that feel physically feels.

2007
01:22:24,939 --> 01:22:28,111
There's a little tactic feedback when you
swipe across that task and

2008
01:22:28,111 --> 01:22:31,444
the blue dot appears. And then the little
menu that comes up at the bottom

2009
01:22:31,444 --> 01:22:35,967
for the when move and delete and the way
that animates in once you actually

2010
01:22:36,217 --> 01:22:37,975
Swipe right to left on a task.

2011
01:22:37,975 --> 01:22:40,197
That is whimsy to me.

2012
01:22:40,433 --> 01:22:41,856
It's definitely not. That's fine.

2013
01:22:41,856 --> 01:22:44,571
We can disagree. That's just good user
interface design.

2014
01:22:42,781 --> 01:22:44,642
We could just I just think

2015
01:22:44,642 --> 01:22:48,275
the what the things that you use as an
examples as Whimsy and other apps,

2016
01:22:48,275 --> 01:22:50,957
you're just not applying it to things for
whatever reason,

2017
01:22:50,957 --> 01:22:53,939
but they are the things. Like those

2018
01:22:53,491 --> 01:22:54,491
But the CEO

2019
01:22:54,296 --> 01:22:55,502
of things didn't apply it either.

2020
01:22:55,502 --> 01:22:57,494
He did not think that that word applied to
the app.

2021
01:22:57,425 --> 01:22:58,425
I

2022
01:22:57,655 --> 01:23:02,421
to overindex on him not knowing the word
because English is not his first language,

2023
01:23:02,421 --> 01:23:03,583
I don't think means

2024
01:23:03,731 --> 01:23:05,611
But then you explained it to him and he
was still like,

2025
01:23:05,611 --> 01:23:07,390
I would never use that word to describe
this app.

2026
01:23:06,951 --> 01:23:07,951
But then he also

2027
01:23:07,511 --> 01:23:12,242
goes on to explain how much careful detail
that they put into those animations

2028
01:23:12,242 --> 01:23:17,054
because he believed like he has an ethos
that things should be a place of peace.

2029
01:23:17,054 --> 01:23:19,795
So that when you he said, your life is so
busy,

2030
01:23:19,795 --> 01:23:24,486
you have so much going on. We want things
to be this oasis where yes,

2031
01:23:24,486 --> 01:23:27,077
you're managing your tasks, but it is
delightful to do it.

2032
01:23:27,077 --> 01:23:29,437
He might not define that as whimsy.

2033
01:23:29,437 --> 01:23:31,558
Again, he didn't even know what the word
meant because English is

2034
01:23:31,558 --> 01:23:33,788
not his first language. So I wouldn't
think he would.

2035
01:23:33,788 --> 01:23:35,639
Like there's no reason for him to think of
it that way.

2036
01:23:35,965 --> 01:23:37,416
That's why he wouldn't describe it that
way.

2037
01:23:37,416 --> 01:23:42,459
But all the things that he talked about
making things in the way they have,

2038
01:23:42,459 --> 01:23:44,530
to me, and how I've thought of whimsy,

2039
01:23:44,530 --> 01:23:47,412
and I think how some of the examples you
have used is exactly that,

2040
01:23:47,412 --> 01:23:48,983
that he is building whimsy into the end.

2041
01:23:50,752 --> 01:23:54,077
Yeah, I don't think that I don't whimsy is
just not a word I would have ever used

2042
01:23:54,077 --> 01:23:55,860
for the app things. And that's fine.

2043
01:23:55,860 --> 01:23:56,860
Like it I again,

2044
01:23:56,061 --> 01:23:57,061
That's fine.

2045
01:23:57,052 --> 01:23:59,816
I it's my one of my f actual favorite
apps.

2046
01:23:59,816 --> 01:24:02,731
So that's it's not a I'm not saying
anything negative about it.

2047
01:24:02,727 --> 01:24:03,727
No, I know.

2048
01:24:02,731 --> 01:24:03,753
I'm

2049
01:24:03,753 --> 01:24:04,834
just simply saying like

2050
01:24:07,335 --> 01:24:09,606
I actually find the plus thing f super
annoying.

2051
01:24:09,606 --> 01:24:10,606
Maybe though.

2052
01:24:09,809 --> 01:24:10,809
Look at the look

2053
01:24:10,489 --> 01:24:13,300
at look at this animation. When you press
the little delete button,

2054
01:24:13,300 --> 01:24:17,302
just that little animation of having the
little popover window come out,

2055
01:24:17,302 --> 01:24:22,244
that f the fluidness, like just how smooth
the animations are,

2056
01:24:22,244 --> 01:24:27,306
that is what I would think like can do
does not have whimsy.

2057
01:24:27,306 --> 01:24:29,747
Because I cannot

2058
01:24:28,946 --> 01:24:29,946
Okay.

2059
01:24:29,747 --> 01:24:36,530
achieve that fluidness of animation
without knowing the code to crunch the
numbers.

2060
01:24:36,530 --> 01:24:38,471
Cause that's what it is. Like it's math.

2061
01:24:38,471 --> 01:24:39,471
Like he even talked about

2062
01:24:39,951 --> 01:24:42,803
Even the sync in things sounded beautiful
because he's like it's

2063
01:24:42,803 --> 01:24:45,795
a mathematical process and you can look at
the equations and

2064
01:24:45,795 --> 01:24:50,479
get exactly precisely right. And I think
that kind of care and attention

2065
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:54,692
to detail is a necessary predecessor to
whimsy,

2066
01:24:54,692 --> 01:24:59,305
because you have to have that precision to
then make the perfect animation

2067
01:24:59,305 --> 01:25:01,277
to do this. And that's that's what I love
about things.

2068
01:25:01,255 --> 01:25:02,255
I

2069
01:25:01,405 --> 01:25:04,466
think there's just a different word that
explains what you're describing because

2070
01:25:04,466 --> 01:25:05,736
the all of what you're saying is very
good.

2071
01:25:05,736 --> 01:25:09,738
But like none of those things are
unexpectedly delightful in my mind.

2072
01:25:09,738 --> 01:25:11,978
They're just that they are exactly what I
expect.

2073
01:25:11,978 --> 01:25:15,160
And I don't think b ex Okay, another
example,

2074
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:16,310
I don't know if this is whimsy,

2075
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:21,832
but it's a it's a good y ~ user interface
experience is when Apple introduced

2076
01:25:21,832 --> 01:25:25,853
the ability to three finger swipe on mail
messages and it just selects them all.

2077
01:25:26,707 --> 01:25:29,878
That when it first came out, I think was
somewhat whimsical because

2078
01:25:29,878 --> 01:25:31,789
it was unexpectedly delightful.

2079
01:25:31,789 --> 01:25:35,600
I don't think there's anything
unexpectedly delightful in things.

2080
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:37,850
It just does everything exactly the way
that it should.

2081
01:25:37,850 --> 01:25:40,781
And yes, that takes a lot of care.

2082
01:25:40,781 --> 01:25:41,862
That is why that is the

2083
01:25:41,437 --> 01:25:42,437
Yeah, yeah.

2084
01:25:41,862 --> 01:25:44,652
difference between good design and not
good design.

2085
01:25:44,652 --> 01:25:47,633
But I don't think that it was designed in
a way that was meant

2086
01:25:47,633 --> 01:25:52,655
to be unexpectedly fun and delightful in a
way that surprises you.

2087
01:25:53,275 --> 01:25:56,317
And I would argue I think they're so good
at being whimsical,

2088
01:25:56,317 --> 01:26:00,459
it's easy to miss all the unexpected
things.

2089
01:26:00,459 --> 01:26:04,661
Like I am discovering things as I'm just
looking for more examples.

2090
01:26:04,661 --> 01:26:10,444
And another thing I've found is when you
tap a task to expand it to see the note,

2091
01:26:10,444 --> 01:26:16,407
I didn't even notice that the three dots
at the top and the back arrow disappear.

2092
01:26:16,407 --> 01:26:19,949
And just that fluid animation from
expanding a task,

2093
01:26:19,949 --> 01:26:22,160
those things disappear and

2094
01:26:22,566 --> 01:26:27,098
Totally unnecessary. Some might even argue
that's a bad experience because,

2095
01:26:27,098 --> 01:26:30,950
well, now I can't tap the three dots once
I am focused on a task.

2096
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:35,092
But because Werner and his team are so
opinionated,

2097
01:26:35,092 --> 01:26:39,554
they realize, well, if you tap on a task
to expand it and you want to focus

2098
01:26:39,554 --> 01:26:43,005
on the note, you're focused on that and
you want the least amount

2099
01:26:43,005 --> 01:26:45,676
of distractions as possible. And I think
those things,

2100
01:26:45,676 --> 01:26:49,028
they so fly under the radar in the Things
app.

2101
01:26:49,382 --> 01:26:50,616
that it doesn't even register.

2102
01:26:50,616 --> 01:26:53,053
And so there's like, well, I don't have
any unexpected whimsy because

2103
01:26:53,194 --> 01:26:55,771
I didn't see anything change. But there's
so many little details.

2104
01:26:54,332 --> 01:26:55,892
Yeah, but I but I think

2105
01:26:55,892 --> 01:26:57,593
you have to be able to notice it for it to
be whimsical.

2106
01:26:57,593 --> 01:26:59,503
Otherwise what you described are things
that are seamless

2107
01:26:59,503 --> 01:27:02,904
and intuitive and effortless and it's
polished and it's satisfying,

2108
01:27:02,904 --> 01:27:03,904
but that

2109
01:27:03,206 --> 01:27:04,206
Yeah.

2110
01:27:03,534 --> 01:27:05,385
isn't I just think that's not the same as
whimsical.

2111
01:27:05,385 --> 01:27:07,666
Whimsical is a separate element of apps.

2112
01:27:07,666 --> 01:27:10,646
I just don't think that it was it wasn't
built to have whimsy.

2113
01:27:10,646 --> 01:27:14,427
It was built to be effortless and
intuitive and polished and satisfying

2114
01:27:14,427 --> 01:27:16,668
and seamless and all of these things,

2115
01:27:16,668 --> 01:27:20,589
but none of those things are the same d
they're different forms of delight.

2116
01:27:20,589 --> 01:27:23,810
Whimsy is a is a different kind of delight
than what I think you get from the work.

2117
01:27:23,986 --> 01:27:27,048
From things. ~ again, I'm not bad.

2118
01:27:27,048 --> 01:27:29,600
I'm not knocking things. I'm just simply
saying

2119
01:27:28,731 --> 01:27:29,731
No, I know, I know.

2120
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:33,243
I don't think that that word means what I
would use to describe

2121
01:27:33,243 --> 01:27:36,686
the interface of things. I think that it's
very,

2122
01:27:36,686 --> 01:27:40,749
very well made. And all of the things you
just described about the app things,

2123
01:27:40,749 --> 01:27:43,151
which is such a terrible name for an app
right now when you're trying

2124
01:27:43,151 --> 01:27:47,545
to talk about it, is are seamless and
intuitive and effortless and

2125
01:27:47,585 --> 01:27:49,186
and they are delightful.

2126
01:27:49,726 --> 01:27:53,561
But that's th but whimsy is a very
specific and it's in my mind,

2127
01:27:53,561 --> 01:27:55,523
if you don't notice them, it's not
whimsical.

2128
01:27:55,523 --> 01:27:59,128
You have to notice it and it has to be
unexpectedly delightful in a

2129
01:27:59,128 --> 01:28:02,672
fun and playful way. And it and if it
doesn't register in your mind,

2130
01:28:02,672 --> 01:28:04,514
it was neither fun nor playful or

2131
01:28:04,932 --> 01:28:09,153
I see I and that's where I would disagree
with I think you may never notice

2132
01:28:09,153 --> 01:28:15,065
the specifics, but the feeling you get
when using it is a collection

2133
01:28:15,065 --> 01:28:19,826
of all those maybe even unnoticed
animations and interactions,

2134
01:28:19,826 --> 01:28:24,867
but collectively they give you that a
whimsical experience.

2135
01:28:24,867 --> 01:28:28,008
And just an example, like I know you you
were only using this as like

2136
01:28:28,008 --> 01:28:29,359
you were rattling off a bunch of examples,

2137
01:28:29,359 --> 01:28:34,340
but like Fantastical, I view as much more
utilitarian than whimsical.

2138
01:28:34,758 --> 01:28:37,819
And I love Fantastical. And people say
like paying for a calendar app

2139
01:28:37,819 --> 01:28:39,320
is the dumbest thing. I disagree.

2140
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:41,621
Fantastical is an incredible app,

2141
01:28:41,621 --> 01:28:47,003
but the animation for adding a new event
in Fantastical

2142
01:28:47,303 --> 01:28:50,564
is nowhere near as whimsical as in things.

2143
01:28:50,564 --> 01:28:54,046
And if you look at that little X in the
top corner,

2144
01:28:54,046 --> 01:28:58,438
like the radius and spacing from that X to
the top part of that card,

2145
01:28:58,438 --> 01:29:00,088
to the other to the side of the card,

2146
01:29:00,088 --> 01:29:04,260
I think is off. Like I think that visually
UI is off.

2147
01:29:04,740 --> 01:29:10,435
And those things in my mind take me out of
this this does not have the same level

2148
01:29:10,435 --> 01:29:13,788
of whimsy because there's some rough edges
and that's fine.

2149
01:29:13,788 --> 01:29:16,490
And again, fantastic call I'll I'll pay
double what I'm paying now because

2150
01:29:16,490 --> 01:29:21,735
it is that good of an app. But that's the
kind of the level of detail that things

2151
01:29:21,735 --> 01:29:24,828
puts in that I feel like flies under the
radar.

2152
01:29:24,828 --> 01:29:27,410
Like I've never noticed half the things
I've just doing now,

2153
01:29:27,410 --> 01:29:32,024
but I know I love using it. And I think
it's because it has that X factor of
whimsy.

2154
01:29:34,662 --> 01:29:35,935
Let us know in the comments, everyone.

2155
01:29:35,935 --> 01:29:39,002
I'll do a I don't know,

2156
01:29:39,002 --> 01:29:42,840
let us know in comments. Is things
whimsical if you use it?

2157
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:45,124
I think I ~ yeah.

2158
01:29:44,298 --> 01:29:45,298
But only if you

2159
01:29:45,228 --> 01:29:46,740
understand what the word means,

2160
01:29:46,740 --> 01:29:49,692
because it is delightful in very specific
ways.

2161
01:29:49,692 --> 01:29:52,094
Whimsy is not one of them. That's all.

2162
01:29:52,094 --> 01:29:55,707
The the one example for Fantastica that
pops up for me is I use I

2163
01:29:55,707 --> 01:29:57,348
use the little drop-down from my menu bar.

2164
01:29:57,348 --> 01:29:58,639
I don't use the actual app.

2165
01:29:57,978 --> 01:29:58,999
Yeah, same.

2166
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:02,352
And if you're scrolling over events that
pull down,

2167
01:30:02,352 --> 01:30:06,805
it highlights that day. And then if you so
it's like showing the circle

2168
01:30:06,805 --> 01:30:12,050
on today for stuff. But then I scrolled
over ~ something that's a multi-day event.

2169
01:30:12,050 --> 01:30:13,711
And just the way that the pill.

2170
01:30:14,077 --> 01:30:18,270
that was surrounding one day goes over to
the all the days that are covered.

2171
01:30:18,270 --> 01:30:20,342
To me that's whimsical. Now, you're right,

2172
01:30:20,342 --> 01:30:22,203
there are some weird design elements like,

2173
01:30:22,203 --> 01:30:24,575
it doesn't feel like it's quite centered
because of the way the dots

2174
01:30:24,575 --> 01:30:25,576
are beneath it and stuff like that.

2175
01:30:25,576 --> 01:30:28,488
But the element itself of here's how we
solve that problem

2176
01:30:28,488 --> 01:30:31,080
in an unexpectedly delightful and fun way,

2177
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:33,182
to me, that is whimsy. You're right.

2178
01:30:33,182 --> 01:30:36,554
There are things about the app design that
maybe could be improved,

2179
01:30:36,554 --> 01:30:38,636
but that doesn't but those are I again,

2180
01:30:38,636 --> 01:30:39,877
I just am separating out

2181
01:30:40,199 --> 01:30:41,771
I think Whimsy is a very specific thing.

2182
01:30:41,771 --> 01:30:44,406
I don't think Things has it. It has a lot
of delightful things.

2183
01:30:44,406 --> 01:30:46,860
I love the app. It just isn't whimsical.

2184
01:30:46,860 --> 01:30:47,860
So that's all.

2185
01:30:47,974 --> 01:30:49,840
The dictionary definition of whimsical,

2186
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:55,618
playfully quaint or fanciful, especially
in an appealing and amusing way.

2187
01:30:57,117 --> 01:30:58,714
Yeah, that I mean, sure.

2188
01:30:57,852 --> 01:30:58,852
it is.

2189
01:30:59,763 --> 01:31:02,627
So I just wanted to I was just curious the
dictionary definition.

2190
01:31:02,627 --> 01:31:05,720
But ~ we will let anyway,

2191
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:07,792
we'll see. That was a good that was a good
debate.

2192
01:31:07,792 --> 01:31:09,284
We should ask I'm gonna ask

2193
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:09,560
Yeah.

2194
01:31:09,284 --> 01:31:12,709
Werner to come on primary tech and he
could say he would I know he would agree

2195
01:31:12,709 --> 01:31:14,710
~ like he wouldn't use that word to
describe it,

2196
01:31:14,710 --> 01:31:16,882
but I'm curious what words

2197
01:31:16,991 --> 01:31:20,665
I I think some of it is like maybe I just
care deeply about if

2198
01:31:20,665 --> 01:31:22,286
all words mean everything together.

2199
01:31:22,286 --> 01:31:27,000
Like what you're describing is delightful
and effortless and intuitive and seamless.

2200
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:30,083
But those things are different things than
whimsy.

2201
01:31:30,083 --> 01:31:32,304
Now they're related, they're closely
related.

2202
01:31:32,304 --> 01:31:34,807
Delightful is an overall category of
thing,

2203
01:31:34,807 --> 01:31:36,178
and whimsy is a type of delight.

2204
01:31:36,178 --> 01:31:37,829
Surprise is a type of delight.

2205
01:31:37,829 --> 01:31:39,731
Effortlessness is a type of delight.

2206
01:31:39,731 --> 01:31:40,731
But if we

2207
01:31:40,050 --> 01:31:41,050
Yeah.

2208
01:31:40,552 --> 01:31:43,754
we but if they're not interchangeable and
and to me that

2209
01:31:42,748 --> 01:31:43,748
So what

2210
01:31:43,754 --> 01:31:44,754
matters.

2211
01:31:44,420 --> 01:31:46,481
what about the dynamic island?

2212
01:31:46,481 --> 01:31:52,267
What does it have of all those qualities
you just rattled off,

2213
01:31:52,267 --> 01:31:57,622
and you say things has those, that implies
that the dynamic island stuff

2214
01:31:57,622 --> 01:31:59,894
has something things does not.

2215
01:31:59,894 --> 01:32:03,107
What is that? What is the missing element
then?

2216
01:32:03,571 --> 01:32:06,413
Well, some of it's like what you described
about how like you're d let's

2217
01:32:06,413 --> 01:32:12,158
say you are in an app that you close and
the whatever just

2218
01:32:12,359 --> 01:32:15,961
ups into the dynamic island and then if
you do something it'll come down.

2219
01:32:15,961 --> 01:32:19,377
Like the carrot weather w dynamic island
is a good example.

2220
01:32:19,377 --> 01:32:20,695
I know that's partially carrot weather,

2221
01:32:20,695 --> 01:32:22,839
but it's also the function of the dynamic
island.

2222
01:32:22,839 --> 01:32:26,140
How if it's about to rain it just kind of
comes down and takes up more space

2223
01:32:26,140 --> 01:32:30,454
and then it goes away. And and what it is
about that is it it some of it

2224
01:32:30,454 --> 01:32:31,915
is that the animation is playful.

2225
01:32:32,381 --> 01:32:36,883
Right. It's it has personality to it and
there's like a it's hard

2226
01:32:36,883 --> 01:32:41,556
to describe a thing that is an unexpected
interaction that also was what

2227
01:32:41,556 --> 01:32:43,547
you were hoping it would do. Right?

2228
01:32:43,547 --> 01:32:45,828
Like it's like I this is what this should
do,

2229
01:32:45,828 --> 01:32:48,860
but it wasn't obvious in the way that did
it and then it performed that way.

2230
01:32:48,860 --> 01:32:54,313
And but but I do think a a an important
piece of ~ so somewhat maybe whimsy

2231
01:32:54,313 --> 01:32:57,925
is subjective because it something might
not feel playful to another person,

2232
01:32:57,925 --> 01:32:58,925
but I do think

2233
01:32:58,395 --> 01:32:59,395
Sure.

2234
01:32:58,885 --> 01:33:01,587
it has to be unexpectedly playful and fun.

2235
01:33:02,023 --> 01:33:03,744
in the way that you interact with it.

2236
01:33:03,744 --> 01:33:07,547
And and again, there are other forms of
delight.

2237
01:33:07,547 --> 01:33:10,729
And I do think that things is very
delightful.

2238
01:33:10,929 --> 01:33:11,929
Yeah, yeah.

2239
01:33:11,569 --> 01:33:15,912
I just think that that effort
effortlessness and whimsy are not the same
thing.

2240
01:33:15,912 --> 01:33:19,134
Good inner animation interactions are not
the same thing as whimsy.

2241
01:33:19,134 --> 01:33:22,937
Like to me it doesn't feel fun and playful
in unexpected ways.

2242
01:33:22,937 --> 01:33:25,859
That's all. But I do love it. I just wanna
be clear.

2243
01:33:23,577 --> 01:33:26,611
Okay. Okay. No, no,

2244
01:33:26,611 --> 01:33:29,015
I know, and I and I love Fantastical and
and all that stuff.

2245
01:33:29,015 --> 01:33:33,912
So you know, I don't usually like clip a
portion of the episode and like upload
that

2246
01:33:33,912 --> 01:33:35,254
separately and but I might I might do
that.

2247
01:33:35,254 --> 01:33:38,739
'Cause I'm curious I wanna get like Gruber
and some of these other guys

2248
01:33:38,739 --> 01:33:40,311
to like you know what I mean?

2249
01:33:40,490 --> 01:33:43,422
But again, it's a good it's very good
design.

2250
01:33:43,422 --> 01:33:44,422
I just don't use

2251
01:33:43,727 --> 01:33:44,727
Yeah, yeah.

2252
01:33:44,373 --> 01:33:46,754
that one specific that's why I want to be
careful here.

2253
01:33:46,754 --> 01:33:48,165
Cause some people are like, I love things.

2254
01:33:48,165 --> 01:33:50,987
How dare you? I think it's amazing and it

2255
01:33:49,005 --> 01:33:50,520
No, no, and it's not yeah.

2256
01:33:50,987 --> 01:33:55,000
has all of these qualities. My my exact
text to him was I would just have never
have

2257
01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:56,931
used that word for the for thing.

2258
01:33:56,891 --> 01:33:57,891
Sure.

2259
01:33:57,341 --> 01:34:00,582
And there's like I love shortcuts.

2260
01:34:00,582 --> 01:34:03,944
I think it's clear for that. I wouldn't
say shortcuts has any whimsy.

2261
01:34:03,944 --> 01:34:08,306
Like, I don't think you know, just because
it's not that,

2262
01:34:08,306 --> 01:34:10,887
it's not trying to be that. Like,

2263
01:34:10,887 --> 01:34:14,618
I feel like I enjoy using the app.

2264
01:34:14,618 --> 01:34:18,970
It's fun to use. I want to build new
shortcuts because it's exciting to,

2265
01:34:18,970 --> 01:34:21,091
you know, build those kinds of
automations.

2266
01:34:21,091 --> 01:34:23,732
But I would not say the shortcuts app has
whimsy.

2267
01:34:23,732 --> 01:34:26,353
Maybe like an automation that

2268
01:34:26,981 --> 01:34:31,204
works and is surprising could be
whimsical,

2269
01:34:31,204 --> 01:34:32,705
but I don't think I don't think of it that
way.

2270
01:34:32,705 --> 01:34:34,246
And someone could disagree with that too.

2271
01:34:34,246 --> 01:34:35,647
But anyway, let

2272
01:34:35,487 --> 01:34:36,487
All right.

2273
01:34:35,647 --> 01:34:36,647
us know.

2274
01:34:35,967 --> 01:34:37,428
I I might clip this, we'll we'll comment,

2275
01:34:37,428 --> 01:34:41,371
but let us know about whimsy. We're gonna
go talk about Silo in the bonus episode.

2276
01:34:41,371 --> 01:34:45,284
And ~ and Vid Zero

2277
01:34:42,663 --> 01:34:44,957
Where there's no whimsy at all.

2278
01:34:45,284 --> 01:34:48,096
I think we can both agree. Zero whimsy and
silo.

2279
01:34:48,096 --> 01:34:49,737
And so if you want to hear the bonus
episode,

2280
01:34:49,737 --> 01:34:51,498
our pre-show, get this ad free.

2281
01:34:51,498 --> 01:34:55,631
And you can access to my beta ~ for the
apps I can do in stash.

2282
01:34:56,283 --> 01:34:58,795
Check out become a member. That link is
down in the show notes.

2283
01:34:58,795 --> 01:35:00,787
Two more five-star reviews away from 500.

2284
01:35:00,787 --> 01:35:02,639
Would appreciate you leaving one this
week.

2285
01:35:02,639 --> 01:35:04,440
Thank you for listening. Thank you for
watching.

2286
01:35:04,440 --> 01:35:05,440
We'll catch you next time.