WEBVTT
1
00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:16.359
Straw media. The rainbow flag has
been a symbol of pride since they flew
2
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:21.519
the original flag at the San Francisco
Gay Freedom Day Parade Celebration on June twenty
3
00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:24.920
five, one thousand nine hundred and
seventy eight. A rainbow is a spectrum
4
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:27.879
of light. But when you think
about a rainbow, do you think of
5
00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:32.359
a continuum or do you think of
a series of individual colors? Even though
6
00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:36.679
we know that a rainbow is a
range of light frequencies that blend smoothly into
7
00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:42.079
each other, we perceive bands of
color, we perceive categories. As humans,
8
00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:45.880
we put labels on everything we see. It helps us make sense of
9
00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:49.679
the world around us, and over
the years, researchers have found that when
10
00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:53.880
we struggle to put something into a
category, we like it less. A
11
00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:58.320
few years ago, the Journal P
os one publish the findings of a study
12
00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:02.880
in which the subjects were shown a
variety of images of men and women that
13
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:07.560
had been edited to make them appear
gender ambiguous. One group was asked to
14
00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:11.439
first identify the people in the photos
by gender and then rate them on attractiveness.
15
00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:17.560
The second group was asked to simply
evaluate the attractiveness without categorizing them into
16
00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:21.359
genders. The study found that the
first group, the ones who had to
17
00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:26.640
first assign a gender, found all
the faces relatively unattractive, while the other
18
00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.879
group had preferred certain faces. The
researchers found that the difficulty of the mental
19
00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:36.959
work of classifying something hard to classify
produced a negative effect that transferred to the
20
00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:42.000
face itself. The limitations of black
and white views of gender and sexuality are
21
00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:46.959
what caused that discomfort, and that
means the first step towards making the experiences
22
00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:52.280
of gender nonconforming people better is to
break the binary. My guest today,
23
00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:57.400
Addison Rose Vincent, identifies as Trans
Feminine Non Binary, and they started a
24
00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:01.400
consulting firm called just that break the
binary. At twenty seven years old,
25
00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:06.200
Addison has been living in La and
working as an advocate for the gender queer
26
00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:10.800
community since their time at Chapman University. Defining binary categorization, even in a
27
00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:15.879
progressive city like Los Angeles, isn't
easy, but Addison's views on education,
28
00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:22.000
strength and, above all, compassion
are inspiring. I'M LEA by Chambers,
29
00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:47.599
and this is pride. My name
is Addison Rose Vincent and I stay them
30
00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:52.599
pronounced. Born in Canada, and
raised in Michigan, Addison made their way
31
00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:58.240
into activism and community organizing while attending
Chapman University. Over the years they've taken
32
00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:02.080
on a lot of leadership roles work
for groups that protect and uplift lgbtq plus
33
00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:08.240
people. Now they're the executive director
of the intersects and Gender Queer Recognition Project,
34
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:13.599
the first and leading organization in the
US to address the right to identify
35
00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:16.759
as non binary on government issued documents. We go state by state and we
36
00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:22.400
push for legislation that allows for a
third gender option on state IDs. So
37
00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:27.120
in California we have x in addition
to male and female. They founded break
38
00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:32.840
the Binary LLC. We provide monthly
social events and life skill opportunities for nonbinary,
39
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:38.560
intersects, Gender Queer Journal conforming people
in Los Angeles. Addison is also
40
00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:43.919
the founder of NBULA, which stands
for the Nonbinary Union of Los Angeles,
41
00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:49.919
with focus on providing LGBTQ Consulting,
education, training strategic planning for businesses and
42
00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:54.400
organizations. And lastly, Addison is
the founder of history reimagined, which is
43
00:03:54.439 --> 00:04:00.280
a new concept that works to prevent
and break cycles of domestic violence and the
44
00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.919
school to prison pipeline that's through Blue
Shie of California. Needless to say,
45
00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:09.400
they stay very busy. When Addison
and I sat down together, we spent
46
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.120
a long time talking about pronouns,
gender fluidity and a lot more. So
47
00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:17.279
let's start with the basics. Pronouns. Pronouns are the words or terms that
48
00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:21.639
we use instead of a person's name. So for one person, maybe let's
49
00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:27.040
say their name is Joe. Maybe
Joe goes by he, him pronouns.
50
00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.199
So we would say I know Joe, he is a student, I know
51
00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:35.680
him, his favorite color is green. Right. For maybe someone named Sally,
52
00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:41.319
maybe Sally uses she her pronouns,
and maybe we would refer to her.
53
00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.720
As you know, I know Sally, she is a student, I
54
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.439
know her. Her favorite color is
green. For me, I'm someone that
55
00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:53.759
uses pronouns that are they, them, their gender neutral. There's something that
56
00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:59.439
I identify with and that make me
feel affirmed and seen. So when you
57
00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:02.439
talk about me, me would say
I know Addison, I know them,
58
00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:06.720
they are a student and their favorite
color is green. Right. So those
59
00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:11.160
are ways that you would use my
pronouns as well. Now there's more than
60
00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:15.759
just he, she and they pronouns. There might be Zen sor. There's
61
00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:18.800
some people that use no pronouns at
all. But pronouns ultimately are up to
62
00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:24.959
that person. SITICIDE, Zee and
Zer are actually German gender neutral pronouns.
63
00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:29.439
The most common gender neutral pronouns in
the US are they and them. They,
64
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:31.360
them. I think people have some
trouble understanding how to use it in
65
00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:35.000
a singular context. So I tell
them a few things. One is that
66
00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:41.480
they in them has been used in
a singular context to refer to one person
67
00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:46.319
for more than, I think,
four or five centuries. If you look
68
00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.000
back at Shakespearean plays, you can
see that they in them is used as
69
00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:54.519
a singular pronoun for a person.
Is Actually, I think, used in
70
00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:00.079
literature and documentation longer as a singular
pronoun than the singular you, which is
71
00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:04.000
interesting as well. So there's a
lot of history of using they them as
72
00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:11.279
a singular Pronoun and ultimately to I
know that the mirroring Webster Dictionary and the
73
00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:16.480
APA style formatting for citations has now
said that they and them should be used
74
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:25.319
and can be used in a singular
context to. So sometimes people get confused
75
00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:30.959
with the terms sex and gender.
Sex usually refers to one's physical biological makeup.
76
00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.439
Like their chromosomes, their hormones,
for their Gendertalia, and oftentimes we
77
00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.920
think about sex in male or female
forms. Male meaning that you have to
78
00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:45.000
have xx chromosomes, right, x, X Y chromosome. X Y chromosomes,
79
00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:47.399
right. I was get confused about
which one is which. Will Google
80
00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.480
it. So anyway, have to
have, you know, certain type of
81
00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:57.800
chromosomes. You have to have testosterone
penis tests. There's a certain type of
82
00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:01.160
checklist or male and the same thing
goes for females. Well, to write,
83
00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.839
having a vagina, having ovaries,
having high levels of estrogen, etc.
84
00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:11.360
Etc. But not everyone is going
to fall into those two categories.
85
00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:15.480
Right now, when it comes to
gender, gender refers to that social construct.
86
00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:19.279
It's refers to the roles that we
might adopt to based on our sex.
87
00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:26.199
It refers to a lot of different
characteristics, social characteristics that one person
88
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.639
has, and we know terms like
man and woman as general or terms as
89
00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:32.639
well. When the baby is born, we don't usually announce them by their
90
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.120
sex term of male or female.
We usually assign a gender to that baby
91
00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:41.600
based on their genitalia, of it's
a boy or it's a girl. So,
92
00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.360
depending on your culture, that could
also be the gender itself could be
93
00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.879
very different in the US than it
is somewhere else. Right. Yeah,
94
00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:55.519
culture absolutely does shape gender as well. What is defined as a man or
95
00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.600
woman here might be different in another, you know, part of the world
96
00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:03.480
or another another country too. I
also think too, about how in many
97
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:09.040
other cultures around the world, including
here and indigenous America before colonization, that
98
00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:16.800
third genders and fourth genders were not
only recognized but celebrated and revered. I
99
00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:22.079
think about in indigenous America there are
two spirit people in Hawaii, there's Mahoo
100
00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:28.519
folks in Saman Islands, there's the
FA fafine. In India there's Hesra folks,
101
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:33.480
and these are all people that were
seen as spiritual leaders, community healers,
102
00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:39.039
people that were worthy of celebration and
respect and after colonization to are now
103
00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:45.840
kind of deemed as lesser than as
people who are worthy of being stripped of
104
00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:50.600
their rights, being stripped of housing
or employment opportunities and so on and so
105
00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:56.159
forth. So it's interesting how,
over time, gender has changed and how
106
00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:01.480
our culture, or you know European
cultures, have imposed binary on other cultures
107
00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:05.039
around the world. There are actually
many, many cultures all over the world
108
00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:09.440
that recognize third and fourth genders.
There are the Webatho Cha and the Dominican
109
00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.200
Republic, the FEMINI yellow in Italy, the Bernesia and Albania, the Zanith
110
00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.399
and Oman and they are called in
mean Mar, just to name a few.
111
00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:22.320
So you know those third genders.
They can refer to, possibly intersects,
112
00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:24.480
folks, people who are on the
intersect spectrum, but maybe even people
113
00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:31.440
who have a binary sex but in
terms of their own gender identity, they
114
00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:35.639
transcended whatever they were assigned at birth
to that third gender, fourth gender,
115
00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.200
whatever it be. And when it
comes to intersects, to also just defind
116
00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:45.919
that we talked about sex earlier as
being that biological makeup and intersects refers to
117
00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:52.879
anyone who's biological makeup just doesn't match
that full checklist of male or female.
118
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.799
oftentimes we think of intersects, we
think about the term Hermaphrodite, which is
119
00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:00.600
outdated and we no longer use that
term. Instead we use intersects and it
120
00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:07.440
can refer to people with maybe a
mixture of Genitalia, maybe it's a maybe
121
00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:13.360
it's varying hormone levels or chromosomes.
Oftentimes people may have like xx x chromosomes,
122
00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:18.000
or x x. Why? Those
are common instances of intersect traits.
123
00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:22.120
When it comes to having a penis
and vagina at the same time. That's
124
00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:26.039
a pretty uncommon thing to happen for
intersex folks, but it does happen.
125
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.399
It's really small, small percentage within
the intersect community, which is also a
126
00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.720
very small percentage in itself. Research
into intersect statistics is complicated because there are
127
00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:39.840
so many different ways to be intersects. A common number given by people in
128
00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:45.639
the medical community is one in two
thousand, or zero five percent of the
129
00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:50.080
population, but that number only refers
to ambiguous genitalia at birth, and a
130
00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.799
more recent study done in Istanbul found
a rate of one point three percent for
131
00:10:54.879 --> 00:11:01.320
that same measurement. Still, these
studies rely exclusively on visual representation at birth.
132
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:07.559
Other more thorough research suggests that intersects
people make up about one point seven
133
00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:11.440
percent of the world population. It's
just as common as being redheaded, which
134
00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.840
is interesting to think about that.
If you know someone in your life that's
135
00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.360
that has red hair, that you
may know someone that's also intersects, or
136
00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.480
you yourself may be intersects, but
maybe that was something that you were told
137
00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.080
to be ashamed of. Or to
not talk about or was a race from
138
00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:31.519
you. Oftentimes, intersect people don't
know that their intersects for a long time.
139
00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.639
I met this one fifty year old
intersects woman when I was doing advocacy
140
00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.559
two years ago when we were doing
legislation here in California, and she didn't
141
00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:45.399
know that she was intersects until a
couple of years earlier when her husband asked
142
00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:50.000
her about her body and she learned
then, through talking to her family and
143
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.000
talking to doctors, that when she
was a child she had had various forms
144
00:11:54.039 --> 00:12:00.679
of surgeries and procedures done on her
as a child that she didn't understand.
145
00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:05.399
And that's something that's common in the
US right and around the world. So
146
00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:09.679
you could be born intersects and your
parents are a doctor is going to decide
147
00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:15.080
what they think you should look like. Is that like that? That's what
148
00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:20.759
happens. So then that person could
be more feminine and because of a doctor
149
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:24.159
they're decided nope, you are going
to be male, because I say so.
150
00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:28.639
You got it. I think that
we live in a culture where when
151
00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:35.120
a person is born with a body
that doesn't quite fit into the standard,
152
00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.759
that doesn't quite fit into what we
understand. We immediately see it as wrong.
153
00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.440
We immediately sign it as something that's
bad. We can't compute it as
154
00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.360
being this or that, right or
wrong, right. It doesn't make sense
155
00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.440
to us. So we automatically try
to fix it. And the truth is
156
00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.840
that a lot of intersects people don't
need to be fixed. A lot of
157
00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.879
these kids shouldn't be fixed and ultimately, if they do want to be fixed
158
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:03.759
or do want to be corrected on, or whatever that be, that should
159
00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:07.000
be their choice. It shouldn't be
up to the parents or up to the
160
00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:11.000
surgeons to operate on them or change
their bodies or assign them anything. When
161
00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:15.360
they're firstborn or as children, they
should be able to have the autonomy to
162
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:20.080
decide what to do with their own
bodies. And so those those what we're
163
00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.440
speaking kind of broadly. But those
kids, they're if these are not like
164
00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:30.799
life threatening conditions where it had it's
all based on esthetic, esthetic and misconception
165
00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.720
to around what it means to be
intersects and, of course, going back
166
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:39.679
to this stigma of being outside the
binary, not conforming to male or female,
167
00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.279
man or woman. It's something that
everyone's trying to change and correct and
168
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:48.039
fix and again like I said,
it's not necessarily needing of to being fixed.
169
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:54.399
It's perfectly healthy and natural and more
common than we know. When we
170
00:13:54.440 --> 00:14:01.559
come back how Addison broke the binary, plus on learning Transphobia, encountering transphobia
171
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:16.639
and healing. nonbinary refers to people
who just don't identify in the traditional binary
172
00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:22.159
of man or woman. So this
refers to gender. But sometimes people also
173
00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:28.240
like to extend the not the nonbinary
umbrella to include sex as well. So
174
00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:33.960
some intersects people will identify as nonbinary
because their intersects, and sometimes not.
175
00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.919
I am someone who's nonbinary. I
identify as nonbinary because I just don't feel
176
00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:43.600
like a man or woman. I
just don't identify as either. I've never
177
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:50.840
felt that the binary has suited me
and I've felt just so much more than
178
00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.240
that. Too many nonbinary people come
in different forms. We all look different
179
00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:01.360
and we might use different pronouns to
not every nonbinary person's going to use a
180
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:07.240
gender neutral pronoun or just use one
Pronoun. I know many nonbinary people who
181
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.320
go by she or go by he
or mix it up and use maybe all
182
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.679
different types of pronouns too, like
I know a lot of people who use
183
00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.320
I want to say it's he them, like that that they like like she
184
00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.080
them, he them, but as
like an incorporation of both. But they
185
00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.759
then pronouns and then the gendered pronouns. You got it. Yeah, so
186
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:31.279
it's really about preference. It's really
up to preference to when it comes to
187
00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:33.600
pronouns, because pronouns are just like
your name. You know, your name
188
00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:39.360
isn't always completely define you either too. It's just a nice little characteristic of
189
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.159
who you are, or Nice title
to the book that you are right,
190
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.279
but doesn't completely define who you are. Pronouns are kind of the same way
191
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.159
too. It's really important to use
pronouns because, just like someone's name,
192
00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:56.000
you should use their correct name and
you should use their correct pronouns, however
193
00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.919
they decide that you want them to
use. And then when people don't,
194
00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:03.120
that's when we start getting into like
misgendering. Yeah, so misgendering is when
195
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:08.399
we refer to a person with the
wrong gender identity or the wrong pronoun and
196
00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:12.399
so, for me, I'm someone
who is male signed up birth, but
197
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.679
I don't identify as a man,
I don't identify as a boy, I
198
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:21.320
don't identify as masculine, and so
when I'm walking down the street or I
199
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:25.879
see even a friendly face or a
stranger and they call me he and him
200
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.360
or call me referred to me as
a boy or a man and stuff.
201
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:33.600
That is this misgendering, because you're
not seeing me for who I am,
202
00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:37.159
and that's what it comes down to, is it's about seeing a person,
203
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:42.200
understanding that how we see a person
visually in front of us and that that
204
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:47.720
ability to look at a person doesn't
mean that you're really seeing us and understanding
205
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.879
us and supporting us too. So
that's why it's so important to never assume
206
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:57.240
anyone's gender, never assume someone's pronouns, and never assume someone's journey either too.
207
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:02.960
That's why it's really important for us
as people, as allies, as
208
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.720
community members, to sit down and
get to know each other's stories, to
209
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:08.640
learn more about how we can be
there for each other, but how to
210
00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:15.319
really see them too. When you're
consulting, how do you teach people to
211
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.880
because I would say it's probably not
as common when you meet someone. Maybe
212
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.400
it's not that it's not common,
but you're not taught, let's say that
213
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.559
in school, you don't learn like
when you walk up to whoever this person
214
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.359
is a kid, you don't say, Oh, what is your p that's
215
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:30.920
not the first thing you say.
Right, is like what's your Pronoun and
216
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.319
sometimes, like you said, someone
may be Sally, but then their pronouns
217
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:38.799
are they them? Yep, right. So how do you teat? How
218
00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.960
do you help people understand? How
do you teach them how to do that
219
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.839
without, you know, feeling awkward
or whatever? Yeah, I think that,
220
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.079
first of all, it's just letting
folks know that we're all on this
221
00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:55.799
journey together. Whether you are SIS
gender, and SISGENDER refers to people whose
222
00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:00.240
gender identity that they were assigned at
birth, that these still identify if I
223
00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:04.279
with it, and that's something that
most people identify as, which is totally
224
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:11.200
fine. So it whether your SIS
gender or transgender or non binary or whatever
225
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.559
that be, we are all conditioned
to Transphobia, we are all conditioned to
226
00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:22.240
homophobia and Queer Phobia and as all
on us as individuals to unlearn that and
227
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.559
unpack that too. So I try
to creep spaces where people don't feel shame
228
00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:32.319
around addressing their own is M's.
They don't feel shame around addressing their own
229
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:37.440
shame as well, and they know
that it's okay to unpack that, to
230
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:42.079
learn that and to unlearn a lot
of it too, when it comes to,
231
00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:47.039
you know, getting people to really
think too about how to relearn how
232
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:51.640
to use pronouns to I just think
about, you know, times when there
233
00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.440
have been celebrities or friends who have
changed their names or change the last names
234
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.920
even to when they get married,
or they have a new nickname right,
235
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.039
and these are all things that we
like to adjust to and we're okay with
236
00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:08.480
right, because we want to be
affirming and sensitive. So we need to
237
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:14.559
really extend that same idea and that
same mentality to Trans People, nonbinary people,
238
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:18.599
to about saying, okay, if
you use a different name or different
239
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.160
pronoun than I thought you did,
okay, it should be an easy switch
240
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.599
for me. All work on that
and I'll know to use that one for
241
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:30.279
you, right. And it's really
about being affirming to the individual rather than
242
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:34.440
assuming based on how they look and
how we interpret it to that's how can
243
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.839
I break it down for people?
Did you do you feel like you had
244
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.480
to unlearn all those things? Absolutely
and didn't take you time. Was it
245
00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:48.920
quick for you? Is it?
I have been out as non binary for
246
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.920
wow, it's been since two thousand
and thirteen. So it's a been about
247
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.880
six years, almo over six years, and I myself have still been on
248
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:03.839
a journey of unlearning and unpacking my
own transphobia and my own shame. And
249
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.359
when I look in the mirror as
a general conforming person, there are days
250
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:11.079
when I go wow, I look
amazing, I'm so happy with how I
251
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:17.799
look, I feel gender euphoric,
I feel so aligned with who I am,
252
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:21.839
and then there's some days where that
transphobia kind of creeps up still and
253
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:23.880
I look at myself when I go, what the hell are you doing?
254
00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:29.559
Shouldn't you look like a man or
woman? Shouldn't you conform to the binary?
255
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:33.039
So I know that on learning my
own transphobia, on learning my own
256
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:37.480
queer phobia, is it going to
be a lifelong process. When I walk
257
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:42.880
out into public spaces with my partner, who's a trench gender man and we
258
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:48.519
are together too, I still am
sometimes hesitant about holding hands in public or
259
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:56.359
having any other form of public you
know, PDA, and so it's something
260
00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.160
that I'm constantly on learning and getting
more comfortable with with myself, and that
261
00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.480
also translates was how with how I
see my own community. Sometimes too.
262
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.839
So it's a journey. It's a
journey for me, it's a journey for
263
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:17.000
our community and it's a journey for
everyone to unpack and and learned that I
264
00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:22.599
feel that it is a balance and
it's a dance sometimes too. I feel
265
00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:26.160
that, you know, we are
fortunate to live in a really progressive area.
266
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.039
I want to say, and I
say that hesitantly, because I feel
267
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:34.319
that, you know, there are
many places throughout the US that are deemed
268
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:40.279
as not progressive or unsafe, and
sometimes that's the places where there's the most
269
00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:44.759
radical activism happening and the communities is
strongest. I think about the south,
270
00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:48.319
I think about, you know,
Texas, I think about Atlanta, I
271
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.200
think about Georgia, I think about
so many different cities and states to throughout
272
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.200
the south that might be seen as
unsafe, but they truly are. But
273
00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.640
for me, I think walking out
in Los Angeles to I think there is
274
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.559
a as level of privilege and a
level of luxury that we have to with
275
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:11.000
knowing that there are a lot of
out and open lgbtq people nearby and around
276
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.400
and that we have a little bit
more freedom here to to be open about
277
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:18.160
who we are and to hold hands
and at the same time I still get
278
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.799
harassed, I still get treated sometimes
really horribly walking down the street too,
279
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:29.839
and I have to learn how to
reframe that violence as not being about me,
280
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.319
but it's about that person being hurt. It's about that person projecting their
281
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:38.119
own pain. Sometimes I think,
too, that the people who are trying
282
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:42.759
to hurt us the most are the
people who may be in the community themselves,
283
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:48.640
but have so much shame and so
much trauma and so much pain that
284
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.240
they just take it out on us. You just have to be strong enough
285
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:57.599
to know that and realize that that
it's not about you at all, mm
286
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:00.759
because you don't really affect their life
at all when you walk by. I
287
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.359
gotta the other day I was walking
down the street with my dog, Stevie,
288
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:11.079
and I take him out for walks
every morning and typically he has certain
289
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.599
spots where you likes to pee and, you know, to his thing and
290
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.519
in the morning. This was a
few weeks ago. I was walking out
291
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:21.799
and by this bus stop, this
guy was sitting there and as I was
292
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.839
walking next to him, he started
yelling at me and harassing me about my
293
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.400
pants in particular. I was wearing
these girls sweat pants he was saying.
294
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.559
He was saying that I can't be
wearing them, that I look like a
295
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:38.279
fagot and all these different things.
And in that very moment, stevie decided
296
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:44.240
that he needed to pee. Now, typically, as someone who has been
297
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:48.000
harassed on the street, I try
to keep walking, I try to keep
298
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:52.319
my head down, I try it
to escalate the situation because of that fear
299
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:57.039
of what could happen, fear of
what has happened to over twenty trench gender
300
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:02.359
women of Color in this country right
as just this year, just this year,
301
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:06.400
a well over three hundred around the
world too, in the past year.
302
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.799
I think about so many other queer
and Trans people who have been attacked
303
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.640
and killed just for being who they
are and being unapologetic. Right. So
304
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:18.720
typically keep my head down and it
is try not to say anything or do
305
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:22.200
anything, just get out of the
situation. But, like I said,
306
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.799
my dog in that moment decided that
he needed to pee right then and right
307
00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:30.319
there. So I stopped and the
guy still yelling at me and I did
308
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:36.000
something that I've never done before and
I looked him in the eyes and he
309
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:41.839
stopped yelling at me and we just
made eye contact for about five seconds and
310
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:45.839
in that five seconds I looked deep
into his eyes and I realized that this
311
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:52.880
was a person who was in deep
pain, this was a person who felt
312
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:59.960
powerless and he was trying to get
his power away from me. This was
313
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.440
someone who needed help. And at
at five seconds he broke eye contact.
314
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:10.119
He looked at the ground and all
I asked him was are you okay,
315
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:21.200
and immediately he said I'm sorry.
And for me it completely shifted how I
316
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:26.799
saw him, a completely shifted the
interaction and I no longer felt powerless,
317
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.000
as I often do when I'm harassed
down the street. Instead, I felt
318
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:36.160
powerful, and so I told him
that I wish him a good day and
319
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:42.000
I kept walking. It makes me
very sad that you did. You have
320
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:45.200
to endure that. That's really hard
and it takes a lot of strength.
321
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.200
But what you said when he averted
his eye contact from you, it be.
322
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:56.200
It means that he realized you knew
his truth, that he was upset
323
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:57.839
about something else. Wasn't you,
but he had to take it out on
324
00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:03.240
you. So it does. It
takes a lot that you endure that just
325
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.240
to walk the dog. When I
walk down the street to it's I'm constantly
326
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:12.519
hyper vigilant about interactions like that and
I know that I have the power to
327
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:19.519
act in a way that is proactive, that is beneficial, that won't create
328
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:25.160
or continue any more cycles of trauma
or shame or pain. But it's a
329
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.759
lot to carry, and it's a
lot for I mean, I'm someone who's
330
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:33.359
a white, non binary person.
You have to think about all the Trans
331
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.880
and nonbinary people of Color who are
navigating so many more obstacles and so many
332
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:44.079
more systems than me too, who
go through many more times that type of
333
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.640
violence than I do as well.
Right, but it's already hard enough just
334
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:52.599
being me walking down the street,
trying to get services, getting looks,
335
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:57.079
getting stairs and me constantly worried about, okay, what's going to happen next?
336
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:00.440
What are that was that person going
to say? Is that person going
337
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:06.599
to deny me a service or treat
me a certain way or call me something?
338
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:10.119
And what am I going to do
in that moment too? It's tough
339
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.920
to always think about and to be
constantly on guard about, and that's why
340
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:19.000
I understand to that within our own
trans and on binary communities that because of
341
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:25.200
all that trauma, because of all
of that hyper vigilance. It's sometimes really
342
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:29.559
hard for us to trust ourselves and
to trust each other, and so we
343
00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:33.839
see a lot of internal conflicts sometimes, and sometimes I even hear people outside
344
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:41.079
the community talk about us as being
manipulative or lazy or attention seeking or all
345
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:47.079
these things. But those are all
just signs of needing connection, being overwhelmed,
346
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.039
being tired of all the shit that
we go through and that we need
347
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:56.759
help. Right, you have a
tissue back there. Do I tell me
348
00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:59.960
a little bit about what's coming up
for you as well? I would,
349
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:02.400
I would, I would love to
hear about what's what else is coming up
350
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:06.200
for you. You are like looking
into my soul, which so when you
351
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.680
said that, I'm like you really, I'm sure that man felt very I
352
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.359
honestly, I'm sure he was so
taken aback that he was just like,
353
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:17.279
Oh, fuck, I don't know
what I did. I did something and
354
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:22.680
this person can see inside me.
Yeah, sorry, yeah, that never
355
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.119
happens. It's okay now, you're
good. I don't know why. It
356
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:36.079
was just a very powerful story.
Thank you. You know, it's one
357
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:41.119
thing to go to a business and
teach them how to how to teach their
358
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.640
employees how to treat people correctly that
are different right. How did you do
359
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:51.240
it with your own family? MMM, I'm very fortunate to have a family
360
00:28:51.400 --> 00:29:00.759
that is not only tolerating but accepting
and empowering, and they celebrate me like
361
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:11.880
there's no tomorrow. I was born
in Canada and raised in Michigan and I
362
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:17.759
actually moved out to California when I
was seventeen because I was so scared of
363
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:22.680
what my parents would say when I
did come out as gay back in this
364
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.039
is two thousand and ten. And
when I did move out here and I
365
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.680
started school and I created my whole
safety network of friends just in case something
366
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.720
bad word to happen if I came
out to them. What? Once they
367
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:37.319
came out to them, they were
super supportive and then, in fact,
368
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.240
they said like they're like Addison,
we knew. I was like, damn
369
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:48.359
it. But since, you know, coming out as gay and then Queer
370
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:53.440
and then transcend on binary and then
so many more things, they've still continued
371
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.720
to love me and support me and
everything too. But you know, it's
372
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.920
still a journey with them to trying
to get them to understand new terms and
373
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:04.920
how identify and why identify the way
that I do. So when it comes
374
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:11.039
to working with my family, it's
been all about patients, knowing that people
375
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:17.720
who are, you know, typically
older have therefore been conditioned to and have
376
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:23.519
been around using pronouns and using terms
and understanding ways of living a certain way
377
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:27.519
for a longer time. So when
I introduce, you know, my they
378
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:32.000
then pronouns. To someone maybe of
my age, they might be able to
379
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:34.720
get it a little bit faster than
maybe my parents. My parents. I
380
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:38.839
have been out to them as a
nonbinary using they then pronouns for, like
381
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:42.200
I said, six and a half, almost seven years, and they still
382
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.079
struggle with my they them pronouns,
and is all that. Patients with me
383
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:49.200
too, I know that they love
me, I know that they they see
384
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:55.799
me and that they're still on learning
and working through their own understandings of gender,
385
00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:00.400
their own transphobia, their own ways
of the world. So it's always
386
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.319
a journey with them too. But
I know that their intentions are good,
387
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.079
and that's what I always remind people
no matter where I go, is that
388
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:12.200
intentions are the most important aspect to
any type of allyship and any type of
389
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:15.400
work. So if you go in
with good intentions that you want to support,
390
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.240
you want to help. I know
that you're doing good work now.
391
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:23.200
I know that also to your carrying
your own is MS, carrying that history,
392
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.359
carrying those things, and that's a
journey in itself to unlearned. Like
393
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:32.480
I said earlier, to I'm constantly
on learning my own transphobia. I'm still
394
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:36.559
trying to understand how to see people, as you know, just to see
395
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:41.079
people, not just to assume who
they are. So even if I'm still
396
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.960
on learning that and I'm still working
through that at the age of twenty seven,
397
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.680
then I know that maybe folks that
are my parents age or older might
398
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:52.640
need a little bit more patients to
and, like you mentioned, you know,
399
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:56.440
in Los Angeles we are exposed to
a lot more diversity than maybe in
400
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:04.279
Michigan. Culture is constantly conditioning you
to like male, female, he her.
401
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.440
That's it, you know. So
I think that that's part of it.
402
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.000
is like you're on learning it while
also being taught it at the same
403
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:15.079
time through repetition. Essentially. I
think that from culture I'm just in a
404
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.000
place where I know that I may
never get like the the you know,
405
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.720
people my family or some as my
friends, even to to get the day
406
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.640
then pronouns correct every single time.
I've had a let go of that because
407
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:31.240
I think that it was frustrating me
for too long to expect them to just
408
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:35.279
get it every single time, and
I wish that that could be the world
409
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.200
that we live in, where people
just automatically understand pronouns and that's what the
410
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:43.960
world that's the type of world that
I think I'm working towards. But in
411
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.880
the meantime I just have to learn
to let some Sam some of those expectations
412
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:52.160
go, unfortunately, and just know
that the person's coming to me with a
413
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:55.759
good heart and with good intentions.
So maybe in lowering my standards a little
414
00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:00.119
bit too much, but I feel
like I just that have been disappointed every
415
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:05.839
time if I don't hold that patient. Sometimes it's tough. Like again,
416
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.640
it's a doubt as a dance,
it's balance and every person's going to react
417
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:16.000
differently and choose how to identify differently, and that's all. It's all valid,
418
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:21.200
it's all correct. Addison has been
out as non binary for about six
419
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.640
years. When we come back we'll
talk about growing up in Michigan and coming
420
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:30.759
out in California, plus the importance
of intersectionality in Gender Queer advocacy and what
421
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:50.839
happens when Your Role Model de Transitions? Because of growing mainstream representation, words
422
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:57.240
like Trans and transgender are much more
widely recognized than other gender nonconforming terms.
423
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.599
Addison self identifies as Trans Feminine,
Non Binary. Well, first of all,
424
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:06.319
trans and transgender. This refers to, you know, a person who
425
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:09.480
is does not identify with the gender
that they were assigned at birth. So
426
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:15.239
there are transgender women who may have
been assigned let's say, boy or male
427
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.960
at birth and they came out as
girls and women at some point. There
428
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.000
are maybe trans men who are,
we first assigned, you know, female
429
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:28.519
or girl at birth and came out
as Boyson, men, right, and
430
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.599
that journey will look different for every
single transperson to and you know, there's
431
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:37.360
also people beyond the binary who are
non binary, who were assigned male at
432
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.440
birth or female birth or whatever,
right, and came out at some point
433
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:46.519
as nonbinary. Trans Feminine in particular, this refers to again, use net
434
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:52.360
trans. So not identifying with gender
you assigned up birth. But Trans Feminine
435
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:57.760
for me encapsulates that I feel feminine
at my core. I don't feel like
436
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:00.320
a woman, I don't feel like
a trans woman, but I do feel
437
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:07.119
this femininity at my core and because
I wasn't when I was assigned at birth,
438
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.239
you know, as a male and
boy, because I was also assigned
439
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:15.199
to be masculine growing up, because
that's what boys and males are expected to
440
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:22.679
be. Because I don't identify as
masculine either. I identify as feminine.
441
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:28.440
I have adopted that term of Trans
Feminine because that's something that wasn't what was
442
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:32.159
assigned to me, but something that
I claim now. So I feel feminine
443
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:36.320
my core. I also feel nonbinary
because I just don't feel like a man
444
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:42.519
or woman. So I've embraced both
Trans Feminine and Non Binary. Did you
445
00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:46.440
have growing up? Did you have
the freedom to be gender nonconforming, or
446
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:51.199
do you feel like you did?
You, you know, had to conform?
447
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:53.719
Yeah, absolutely. Well, yes, I felt that I had to
448
00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:00.880
conform and I felt that it wasn't
really necessarily because of my parents, and
449
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:04.960
it wasn't necessarily because of the adults
around me either too. It was actually
450
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.199
because of the kids on the playground
and my peers, and it all really
451
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:14.440
started, I want to say,
when I was maybe like five or six.
452
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:16.760
That's when it goes back to the
bullying, the bullying on the playground
453
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:22.639
and calling me names and shaming me
for being feminine, shaming me for having,
454
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:30.679
quote unquote, like Queer homosexual traits, right for acting like a girl.
455
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.960
Those are all things that I was
shamed for for a long time,
456
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:38.960
and so I felt that I couldn't
express myself in a way that was fully
457
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:45.719
feminine or General Conforming. I found
ways to still be able to express myself.
458
00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:50.920
I danced a lot, into a
lot of art, but even then
459
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.039
I didn't feel free and I feel
like myself. I often looked at the
460
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:58.119
girls that I danced with and I
wish that I was them. You know,
461
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:01.920
I do remember back and call and
a college in high school. This
462
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:07.639
is back in Michigan. There was
in openly gender fluid person that which my
463
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:14.599
school and they were two years earlier
or two years older than me and going
464
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:20.400
to homecoming, going to prom.
They wore these beautiful oak tour like outfits
465
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:27.559
and were unapologetic about being general conforming
and gender fluid, and I saw all
466
00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:31.679
of the pain that they went through. I saw all of the bullying that
467
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:37.199
they faced. Two I saw I
saw all of it and because I saw
468
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:44.000
that, it registered with me that
that was something that I shouldn't do that.
469
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.960
I wasn't ready to do that.
I was I felt that if I
470
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:51.000
did express at that time and face
all of that, that I may not
471
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:54.480
make it out alive, you know. So I hid in my shame,
472
00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:02.960
I hid under the Queer Phobian Transphobia
to protect myself right from myself and from
473
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:09.559
others. And even though, you
know, they went on and had a
474
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:16.599
happy life and they could have been
a symbol of resilience for me and a
475
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:22.360
symbol of confidence or giving me that
that strength to be able to come out
476
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.599
at that time, it just wasn't
the same for me, which is why
477
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:30.760
I tell people to that folks who
are so out and open and that representation
478
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.559
that we need isn't going to automatically
register for someone as being okay, now
479
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:38.519
I can come out. Sometimes it's
that okay, you're doing that and I'm
480
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:42.760
going to see how that works for
you and if it works for you and
481
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:49.000
you get celebrated or rejected or shamed
or whatever that be, that's going to
482
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:51.840
determine whether or not I'm ready to
come out or not to you know,
483
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:58.679
everyone's coming out. Turnings going to
be different that person. Eventually, you
484
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:00.440
know, served as my role model. Eventually, when I did come out,
485
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:06.119
though, and even though I wasn't
ready the time to come out later
486
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:09.559
in life in college, when I
did come out as nonbineering trans, I
487
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:15.360
felt that I could reflect back on
that person and go, okay, they
488
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.199
did it and now I can do
it now, now that I'm ready,
489
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.679
now that I'm stronger, now that
I have a better community around me.
490
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:29.199
And unfortunately, a few years ago
that person actually detransitioned and now runs a
491
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:36.599
right wing video blog on Youtube,
and it hurt to learn about that.
492
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:45.599
It hurt to see someone who was
my inspiration, my role model in a
493
00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:52.360
way, to to now be posting
videos that are vehemently against Trans people and
494
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:59.559
against the community. And it again
goes back to me about shame and it
495
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:04.440
goes back to pain and trauma and
I think about all the things that they
496
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:08.079
went through when I was there with
them in high school. I think about
497
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:13.360
whether their family was accepting or not. I think about whether, being back
498
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.519
in Michigan, what type of community
that they had, and thinking to again,
499
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:22.639
like I said earlier, that our
own community can sometimes not be able
500
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:28.000
to trust each other or sometimes take
out our anger and trauma on each other.
501
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:31.320
Right. I think about all those
possibilities for this person and what could
502
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:36.880
have driven them to the point that
they needed to de Transition, they needed
503
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:43.400
to now post these horrible, violent
videos even and I just feel sad.
504
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:46.360
I feel sad for that person.
I feel sad for so many other trans
505
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:50.320
people who still can't come out or
feel that they need to go back to
506
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:58.039
the closet because of fear, because
of pain, because of trauma. Did
507
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:02.719
you have a low point that you
got to before you came out, because
508
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:08.639
it had to have been really hard
knowing, like even seeing that person living
509
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:12.880
the truth you wanted to be able
to live. was there a moment that
510
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.000
you remember where you were like,
I don't know, you look in the
511
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:20.079
mirror and you're like this is not
it, this is not the person,
512
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.599
this is not the life, this
isn't what's supposed to be happening. You
513
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:27.159
know, I think that it's it
would. For me it was less of
514
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:31.239
a moment of you know, I
can't do this anymore and it was more
515
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:36.840
of a moment. There was a
moment for me when I went Aha and
516
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:42.239
it clicked, and that was specifically
for me. I will always remember this.
517
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:46.960
It was two thousand and ten.
I was a freshman in college and
518
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:52.639
it was Halloween and that Halloween I
was like, you know what, I'm
519
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:55.599
going to dress up as a sexy
which because I had just come out as
520
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:59.239
gay and I was like I can
do a little drag now, you know,
521
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:01.599
I'm out as day, I can
do this whatever. So I had
522
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:05.840
all these girlfriends and they were you
know, we were in my dorm room
523
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:08.000
and we were getting dressed and I
put on the WIG and I put on
524
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:13.440
the stockings and this stress and the
little Foa or a feather boa whatever it
525
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:17.920
is, and I looked at myself
in the mirror and I saw myself in
526
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:25.519
this hyper feminine expression. It just
clicked for me and I was like this
527
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:32.039
feels right, and I couldn't explain
it and I didn't have the words for
528
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:37.159
it, but all that came to
mind was the laughter from behind me,
529
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:42.800
as my girlfriends were laughing about it
and they all thought it was this big
530
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.400
joke because, going in with it
too, it kind of was supposed to
531
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:50.360
be this joke, supposed to be
this fun Halloween drag kind of outfit.
532
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:54.239
was supposed to be serious, but
it felt serious in that moment and hearing
533
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:59.559
their laughter, it made me feel
like this was supposed to be a joke,
534
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.239
this isn't supposed to feel like this, and so I buried that feeling
535
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:09.639
and a year later I was studying
abroad. So I was no longer around
536
00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:15.719
those girl friends, I was no
longer around my Chapman University community, I
537
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:21.800
was around a whole new group of
people on semester at sea, and that's
538
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.360
a program that we're on a cruise
ship for a whole semester and we go
539
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:30.360
sit, you know, two different
countries and we explore and learn more and
540
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:35.840
engage with the community. It's a
beautiful experience and because I felt like I
541
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:38.920
had a whole new community around me, I tried it again for Halloween.
542
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:43.280
I was like, let's let's do
this again, and this time I dressed
543
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:46.280
up as Ursula, from a little
mermaid, but when she transforms to like
544
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:51.000
the beautiful, you know, so
eductress or whatever, right, and we
545
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.320
are in Vietnam at the time and
I had a custom ad dressed done for
546
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:57.840
me. I got a wig,
I got some shoes and when I dress
547
00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:00.639
up again, I had that same
feeling again, but this time I had
548
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:05.920
a different community around me. And
the community this time was like, you
549
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:12.599
look so beautiful, you look amazing, and they celebrated me instead of laughing.
550
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:16.960
And from that moment, on Halloween
two thousand and eleven, I not
551
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:21.880
only felt the Aha moment that I
did the year earlier, but I also
552
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:29.440
felt the celebration and that completely launched
me off into my gender journey. So
553
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:34.000
from then on I sorted, you
know, grow out my hair, more
554
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:37.960
as our wearing, more makeup,
I did more quote unquote, drag and
555
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:42.280
cross dressing, and I got to
the point two years later when I was
556
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:45.719
like you know what, I know
it's not just about how I look,
557
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.719
because it's about how I feel,
and I don't feel like a man,
558
00:44:51.079 --> 00:44:59.840
I don't feel like a woman,
I'm not pineer. The LGBTQ PLUS COM
559
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:05.400
unity encapsulates so many different spectrums of
identity, each with their own set of
560
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:10.639
struggles. So when I think about
spectrums of identity, they can include race,
561
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:20.440
class, nationality, ethnicity, abilities, so many different things go into
562
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:24.639
our spectrums right in our identities.
But for the LGBTQ community we're dealing with
563
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:31.719
sexual orientation, gender identity, sex
identity, gender expression, right, and
564
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:37.280
those are four things that each have
different issues in different needs as well.
565
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.440
To you, right. So we're
talking about Trans People. Trans people can
566
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:49.400
also be straight or queer or bisexual
or whatever. Be Right, and Queer
567
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:52.159
people could be trans, could be
sis, could be whatever, right,
568
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:58.119
could be intersects. Intersects people could
be queer, could be straight, could
569
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:01.400
be trans, could be not right, because sometimes intersects people, when they're
570
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:06.079
often assigned a gender at birth,
of being a boy or girl, even
571
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:10.480
though they're intersects. Right, most
intersect people actually grow up and they continue
572
00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:14.840
to identify with the gender that they
were as signed at birth. Right.
573
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:19.039
But the issue is around surgeries at
birth, right, not necessarily around coming
574
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.760
out as a certain gender identity.
What we're now we're getting into more transgender
575
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:28.559
issues. Right. So you see
how sometimes they're different issues and different needs.
576
00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:32.360
But it's interesting. What brings us
all together is that stigma that we
577
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:37.440
face is that we're supposed to fit
into a neat box, right, and
578
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:43.320
that we have certain roles that were
supposed to follow as men and women,
579
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:49.159
Male, female, Masklin Feminine,
Right, and our community just doesn't do
580
00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:52.960
that. So that's how we that's
how we all come together, is by
581
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:55.480
what we face and by what we
go through, not necessarily because of how
582
00:46:55.480 --> 00:47:00.320
we identify, but because the world
doesn't see US differently. You can be
583
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:06.719
a a gay man walking down the
street, a Trans Woman, an intersects
584
00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:09.559
person to and people see you because
you look different and they can call you
585
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:16.159
the same slur right, because they
see us all the same, unfortunately.
586
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:20.800
So, because we're seeing as all
the same, we have to unite together,
587
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:22.679
we have to be there for each
other and support each other and with
588
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:28.440
that recognized, to that under that, under that umbrella, some of us
589
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.719
have privilege, some of us don't, right, and so we really have
590
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:36.679
to recognize, okay, what do
I go through? That is a little
591
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:43.920
bit easier than my Trans Women of
Color Siblings or my intersect siblings, or
592
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:47.119
whoever it be, right, how
can I really step up and support them,
593
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:51.639
because we're all going through the same
shit, we're all going through these
594
00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:55.920
same systems. Right, makes sense? Yeah, definitely. You. You
595
00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:00.679
kind of hit something to where you
talked about your are I think you said
596
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:06.000
it was your white privilege m a
little bit ago. Yeah, your experience
597
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:09.159
can be really hard, just taking
the dog out. Do you feel like
598
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:14.360
your friends, people who are,
let's say, Trans Women of Color,
599
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:20.719
yeah, face even more animosity just
because they're not white. Absolutely, absolutely,
600
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:24.000
I think that Cutiepok, which is
Queer and Trans people of Color,
601
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:31.760
specially black and indigenous Queer and Trans
people, go through so many more obstacles
602
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:37.400
and hoops and loops and is m's
and I will ever have to. And
603
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:39.280
that's not something that I just know
from experience, as something that we see
604
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:44.639
in statistics and data to right and
in fact, to when we're thinking about
605
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:50.800
Trans Day of Remembrance, with which
just passed, most of the list are
606
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:55.320
transgender women of Color, specifically black, Latina and Indigenous Trans Women, and
607
00:48:55.320 --> 00:49:01.400
we also think too about how sixty
one percent of murders of transgender murders since
608
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:06.599
two thousand and eight have been of
sex workers. We also have to think
609
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:13.280
too that many of these Trans Women
of color are denied employment opportunities and economic
610
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.400
achievement and the ability to thrive that
they have to, you know, really
611
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:22.280
rely on survival, sex work in
order to live and to just survive,
612
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.239
not even thrive, just to survive. And there is something wrong with sex
613
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:30.920
work, of course, but when
that's your only option and and that option
614
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:36.599
comes with so many layers of stigma, and violence in itself, to from
615
00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:42.679
clients and from police officers, to
who are also racially motivated right and also
616
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:46.639
transphobic, and may even take aok
advantage of those situations to to sexually assault
617
00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:51.480
those Trans Women of color who are
engaging in sex work. You just have
618
00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:55.000
to think, too, about how
many more obstacles they go through. When
619
00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.760
I used to work at transiting a
coalition and Apai T and strength united here
620
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:07.559
in Los Angeles County, providing services
to survivors of violence or people who were
621
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:13.159
homeless or people who needed HIV care, most of my clients and most people
622
00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:19.719
that I see from my programs were
transgender women of color. So it's just
623
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:23.360
I didn't see a lot of white, non binary or Trans People like me.
624
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:30.800
I saw people who are at those
intersections of facing multiple layers of oppression,
625
00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:37.639
multiple forms of is m's right,
and navigating that in a way where
626
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:42.719
they're just trying to survive. And
for me, thankfully, I am not
627
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.559
at that point where I'm just trying
to survive. I can thrive, I
628
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.920
can be me. I'm in love, I have a good job, I
629
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:54.440
have my own business and I have
a loving, supportive community too, and
630
00:50:54.480 --> 00:51:00.039
I also have the tools in order
to be me and success, the successful,
631
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:05.400
and these are tools that I know
and a family and so many other
632
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.079
opportunities that I know have come to
me because of my white privilege, and
633
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:13.800
that's something that our own community has
to recognize too, that it's not just
634
00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:20.039
about being gay or trans. Will
mean that you're going to be susceptible or
635
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:23.519
vulnerable to all different types of hate. We might even be able to get
636
00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:30.559
into more rooms and more opportunities because
of our white privilege, right, and
637
00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:35.119
that's not something that's bad to talk
about. It's just a fact and once
638
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:37.719
we acknowledge it as a fact and
we can address that, we can really
639
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:43.760
leverage that in order to make more
significant change for the community and really step
640
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:47.320
up as allies, step up as
advocates, step up with our platforms and
641
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:52.920
privilege in order to make that change. To Circle back to the the role
642
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:58.599
model, you have their youtube channel. Have you spoken to that person since?
643
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:05.519
I tried, since they detransitioned.
Yeah, I've tried. I let
644
00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:07.760
that person know that you know that
I'm always here to talk, you know,
645
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:13.679
for them to talk to me they
ever want to, and that person
646
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:22.440
just ignored my messages and I don't
expect anything to come out of it necessarily,
647
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:24.840
but I do hope that they know
that if they do every want to
648
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:30.480
talk about it and, I don't
know, just open up a little bit
649
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:35.079
more to that, they can.
But again, I don't know the full
650
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:39.719
story and I don't know everything that
they've been through, but I hope that
651
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:46.400
one day or at some point they
have the tools and community and support that
652
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:52.840
they need. And this person is, you know, talking about race right.
653
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:58.760
This person was a openly general conforming
black person to write. So thinking
654
00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:02.320
to also about all the layers that
they're going through that I haven't had to
655
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:10.800
go through, right, and all
the pressure to to conform. Yeah,
656
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:17.320
it's tough. It's like I saying
earlier, there's a lot of there's a
657
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:22.119
lot of things that we go through
as community members to and at the same
658
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:27.519
time there's so much hope. I
mean just this year alone we've seen more
659
00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:31.159
trans in nonbinary people in media than
ever before. I'm I haven't seeing so
660
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:37.000
many more people not just writing books
about Trans and albinary people, but trans
661
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:43.559
and nonbinary artists and writers taking those
steps to share their own stories too.
662
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:47.280
I love seeing how much advocacy is
coming out of the world right now to
663
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:52.079
in, even though we're in a
chaotic and scary time with our own government
664
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:58.280
too. I feel that sometimes it's
under that type of pressure that the most
665
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:02.239
beautiful, organized thing and ideas come
out, and that's what I've been seeing.
666
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:08.079
is so much resilience, so much
strength, and I know that our
667
00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:15.320
future is only going to get brighter
and will have more opportunities to be not
668
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:25.320
only us but to thrive as nonbinary
intersects trans people, not only as Addison,
669
00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:30.519
doing amazing advocacy work within the LGBTQ
pus community, but they're also committed
670
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:36.679
to simply being a beacon of light
and hope. Addison is an activist you
671
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:38.840
want to keep up with. So
if you want to follow me on Instagram,
672
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:45.760
you can find me at at break, the binary, so break tche
673
00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:52.039
ban a ARY. Had to like
think about that for a second. You
674
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:55.199
can also find me on facebook,
which is Addison Rose Vincent. You can
675
00:54:55.320 --> 00:55:01.320
follow my business to on instagram or
on facebook at break the Binary LLC.
676
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:07.039
You can also follow nonbinary union of
Los Angeles if you'd like to join our
677
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:17.400
monthly social events. That is at
the Nebula so tche NBULA yeah, do
678
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:22.000
you have anything else you want to
talk about? Just want to let folks
679
00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:25.039
know that, you know, if
you're listening and you someone who's struggling with
680
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:31.000
your own gender identity or your sex
identity and you don't feel you have anyone
681
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:35.559
to talk to, please know that
you can always message me, that there
682
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:40.280
are so many people out there that
understand what you're going through and that you're
683
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:45.000
just not alone, that I'm here
for you, I support you and you'll
684
00:55:45.000 --> 00:56:12.960
get through anything. Thanks for listening. We want to take a minute now
685
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:16.320
to honor Trans Day of Remembrance,
which was on November. Twenty at least
686
00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:22.320
twenty two trans and non binary people
were killed this year in the US alone.
687
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:50.000
Pride is a production of Straw hut
media. If you like the show,
688
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:53.639
leave us a rating and a review
on Apple podcasts, spotify or wherever
689
00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:58.599
you're tuning in from. Share us
with your friends, subscribe and follow us
690
00:56:58.679 --> 00:57:02.519
on Instagram, facebook and twitter at
pride. You can follow me at Lea
691
00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:07.079
by chambers. Pride is produced by
me, Maggie Bowls and Ryan Tillotson,
692
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:38.480
edited by Sebastian all Colla. I
know I like it because it makes me
693
00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:42.039
feel like a pilot, oh my
God, right, like we should be
694
00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:45.920
like and we're coming into Chicago.
Thank you very much for flying. Please
695
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:50.800
stow your yeah, you're Michael Pilot. I love it. Okay,
1
00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:16.359
Straw media. The rainbow flag has
been a symbol of pride since they flew
2
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:21.519
the original flag at the San Francisco
Gay Freedom Day Parade Celebration on June twenty
3
00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:24.920
five, one thousand nine hundred and
seventy eight. A rainbow is a spectrum
4
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:27.879
of light. But when you think
about a rainbow, do you think of
5
00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:32.359
a continuum or do you think of
a series of individual colors? Even though
6
00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:36.679
we know that a rainbow is a
range of light frequencies that blend smoothly into
7
00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:42.079
each other, we perceive bands of
color, we perceive categories. As humans,
8
00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:45.880
we put labels on everything we see. It helps us make sense of
9
00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:49.679
the world around us, and over
the years, researchers have found that when
10
00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:53.880
we struggle to put something into a
category, we like it less. A
11
00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:58.320
few years ago, the Journal P
os one publish the findings of a study
12
00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:02.880
in which the subjects were shown a
variety of images of men and women that
13
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:07.560
had been edited to make them appear
gender ambiguous. One group was asked to
14
00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:11.439
first identify the people in the photos
by gender and then rate them on attractiveness.
15
00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:17.560
The second group was asked to simply
evaluate the attractiveness without categorizing them into
16
00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:21.359
genders. The study found that the
first group, the ones who had to
17
00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:26.640
first assign a gender, found all
the faces relatively unattractive, while the other
18
00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.879
group had preferred certain faces. The
researchers found that the difficulty of the mental
19
00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:36.959
work of classifying something hard to classify
produced a negative effect that transferred to the
20
00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:42.000
face itself. The limitations of black
and white views of gender and sexuality are
21
00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:46.959
what caused that discomfort, and that
means the first step towards making the experiences
22
00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:52.280
of gender nonconforming people better is to
break the binary. My guest today,
23
00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:57.400
Addison Rose Vincent, identifies as Trans
Feminine Non Binary, and they started a
24
00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:01.400
consulting firm called just that break the
binary. At twenty seven years old,
25
00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:06.200
Addison has been living in La and
working as an advocate for the gender queer
26
00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:10.800
community since their time at Chapman University. Defining binary categorization, even in a
27
00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:15.879
progressive city like Los Angeles, isn't
easy, but Addison's views on education,
28
00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:22.000
strength and, above all, compassion
are inspiring. I'M LEA by Chambers,
29
00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:47.599
and this is pride. My name
is Addison Rose Vincent and I stay them
30
00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:52.599
pronounced. Born in Canada, and
raised in Michigan, Addison made their way
31
00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:58.240
into activism and community organizing while attending
Chapman University. Over the years they've taken
32
00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:02.080
on a lot of leadership roles work
for groups that protect and uplift lgbtq plus
33
00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:08.240
people. Now they're the executive director
of the intersects and Gender Queer Recognition Project,
34
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:13.599
the first and leading organization in the
US to address the right to identify
35
00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:16.759
as non binary on government issued documents. We go state by state and we
36
00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:22.400
push for legislation that allows for a
third gender option on state IDs. So
37
00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:27.120
in California we have x in addition
to male and female. They founded break
38
00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:32.840
the Binary LLC. We provide monthly
social events and life skill opportunities for nonbinary,
39
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:38.560
intersects, Gender Queer Journal conforming people
in Los Angeles. Addison is also
40
00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:43.919
the founder of NBULA, which stands
for the Nonbinary Union of Los Angeles,
41
00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:49.919
with focus on providing LGBTQ Consulting,
education, training strategic planning for businesses and
42
00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:54.400
organizations. And lastly, Addison is
the founder of history reimagined, which is
43
00:03:54.439 --> 00:04:00.280
a new concept that works to prevent
and break cycles of domestic violence and the
44
00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.919
school to prison pipeline that's through Blue
Shie of California. Needless to say,
45
00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:09.400
they stay very busy. When Addison
and I sat down together, we spent
46
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.120
a long time talking about pronouns,
gender fluidity and a lot more. So
47
00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:17.279
let's start with the basics. Pronouns. Pronouns are the words or terms that
48
00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:21.639
we use instead of a person's name. So for one person, maybe let's
49
00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:27.040
say their name is Joe. Maybe
Joe goes by he, him pronouns.
50
00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.199
So we would say I know Joe, he is a student, I know
51
00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:35.680
him, his favorite color is green. Right. For maybe someone named Sally,
52
00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:41.319
maybe Sally uses she her pronouns,
and maybe we would refer to her.
53
00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.720
As you know, I know Sally, she is a student, I
54
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.439
know her. Her favorite color is
green. For me, I'm someone that
55
00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:53.759
uses pronouns that are they, them, their gender neutral. There's something that
56
00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:59.439
I identify with and that make me
feel affirmed and seen. So when you
57
00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:02.439
talk about me, me would say
I know Addison, I know them,
58
00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:06.720
they are a student and their favorite
color is green. Right. So those
59
00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:11.160
are ways that you would use my
pronouns as well. Now there's more than
60
00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:15.759
just he, she and they pronouns. There might be Zen sor. There's
61
00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:18.800
some people that use no pronouns at
all. But pronouns ultimately are up to
62
00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:24.959
that person. SITICIDE, Zee and
Zer are actually German gender neutral pronouns.
63
00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:29.439
The most common gender neutral pronouns in
the US are they and them. They,
64
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:31.360
them. I think people have some
trouble understanding how to use it in
65
00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:35.000
a singular context. So I tell
them a few things. One is that
66
00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:41.480
they in them has been used in
a singular context to refer to one person
67
00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:46.319
for more than, I think,
four or five centuries. If you look
68
00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.000
back at Shakespearean plays, you can
see that they in them is used as
69
00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:54.519
a singular pronoun for a person.
Is Actually, I think, used in
70
00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:00.079
literature and documentation longer as a singular
pronoun than the singular you, which is
71
00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:04.000
interesting as well. So there's a
lot of history of using they them as
72
00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:11.279
a singular Pronoun and ultimately to I
know that the mirroring Webster Dictionary and the
73
00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:16.480
APA style formatting for citations has now
said that they and them should be used
74
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:25.319
and can be used in a singular
context to. So sometimes people get confused
75
00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:30.959
with the terms sex and gender.
Sex usually refers to one's physical biological makeup.
76
00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.439
Like their chromosomes, their hormones,
for their Gendertalia, and oftentimes we
77
00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.920
think about sex in male or female
forms. Male meaning that you have to
78
00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:45.000
have xx chromosomes, right, x, X Y chromosome. X Y chromosomes,
79
00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:47.399
right. I was get confused about
which one is which. Will Google
80
00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.480
it. So anyway, have to
have, you know, certain type of
81
00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:57.800
chromosomes. You have to have testosterone
penis tests. There's a certain type of
82
00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:01.160
checklist or male and the same thing
goes for females. Well, to write,
83
00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.839
having a vagina, having ovaries,
having high levels of estrogen, etc.
84
00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:11.360
Etc. But not everyone is going
to fall into those two categories.
85
00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:15.480
Right now, when it comes to
gender, gender refers to that social construct.
86
00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:19.279
It's refers to the roles that we
might adopt to based on our sex.
87
00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:26.199
It refers to a lot of different
characteristics, social characteristics that one person
88
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.639
has, and we know terms like
man and woman as general or terms as
89
00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:32.639
well. When the baby is born, we don't usually announce them by their
90
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.120
sex term of male or female.
We usually assign a gender to that baby
91
00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:41.600
based on their genitalia, of it's
a boy or it's a girl. So,
92
00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.360
depending on your culture, that could
also be the gender itself could be
93
00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.879
very different in the US than it
is somewhere else. Right. Yeah,
94
00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:55.519
culture absolutely does shape gender as well. What is defined as a man or
95
00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.600
woman here might be different in another, you know, part of the world
96
00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:03.480
or another another country too. I
also think too, about how in many
97
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:09.040
other cultures around the world, including
here and indigenous America before colonization, that
98
00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:16.800
third genders and fourth genders were not
only recognized but celebrated and revered. I
99
00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:22.079
think about in indigenous America there are
two spirit people in Hawaii, there's Mahoo
100
00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:28.519
folks in Saman Islands, there's the
FA fafine. In India there's Hesra folks,
101
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:33.480
and these are all people that were
seen as spiritual leaders, community healers,
102
00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:39.039
people that were worthy of celebration and
respect and after colonization to are now
103
00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:45.840
kind of deemed as lesser than as
people who are worthy of being stripped of
104
00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:50.600
their rights, being stripped of housing
or employment opportunities and so on and so
105
00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:56.159
forth. So it's interesting how,
over time, gender has changed and how
106
00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:01.480
our culture, or you know European
cultures, have imposed binary on other cultures
107
00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:05.039
around the world. There are actually
many, many cultures all over the world
108
00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:09.440
that recognize third and fourth genders.
There are the Webatho Cha and the Dominican
109
00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.200
Republic, the FEMINI yellow in Italy, the Bernesia and Albania, the Zanith
110
00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.399
and Oman and they are called in
mean Mar, just to name a few.
111
00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:22.320
So you know those third genders.
They can refer to, possibly intersects,
112
00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:24.480
folks, people who are on the
intersect spectrum, but maybe even people
113
00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:31.440
who have a binary sex but in
terms of their own gender identity, they
114
00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:35.639
transcended whatever they were assigned at birth
to that third gender, fourth gender,
115
00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.200
whatever it be. And when it
comes to intersects, to also just defind
116
00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:45.919
that we talked about sex earlier as
being that biological makeup and intersects refers to
117
00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:52.879
anyone who's biological makeup just doesn't match
that full checklist of male or female.
118
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.799
oftentimes we think of intersects, we
think about the term Hermaphrodite, which is
119
00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:00.600
outdated and we no longer use that
term. Instead we use intersects and it
120
00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:07.440
can refer to people with maybe a
mixture of Genitalia, maybe it's a maybe
121
00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:13.360
it's varying hormone levels or chromosomes.
Oftentimes people may have like xx x chromosomes,
122
00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:18.000
or x x. Why? Those
are common instances of intersect traits.
123
00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:22.120
When it comes to having a penis
and vagina at the same time. That's
124
00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:26.039
a pretty uncommon thing to happen for
intersex folks, but it does happen.
125
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.399
It's really small, small percentage within
the intersect community, which is also a
126
00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.720
very small percentage in itself. Research
into intersect statistics is complicated because there are
127
00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:39.840
so many different ways to be intersects. A common number given by people in
128
00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:45.639
the medical community is one in two
thousand, or zero five percent of the
129
00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:50.080
population, but that number only refers
to ambiguous genitalia at birth, and a
130
00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.799
more recent study done in Istanbul found
a rate of one point three percent for
131
00:10:54.879 --> 00:11:01.320
that same measurement. Still, these
studies rely exclusively on visual representation at birth.
132
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:07.559
Other more thorough research suggests that intersects
people make up about one point seven
133
00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:11.440
percent of the world population. It's
just as common as being redheaded, which
134
00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.840
is interesting to think about that.
If you know someone in your life that's
135
00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.360
that has red hair, that you
may know someone that's also intersects, or
136
00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.480
you yourself may be intersects, but
maybe that was something that you were told
137
00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.080
to be ashamed of. Or to
not talk about or was a race from
138
00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:31.519
you. Oftentimes, intersect people don't
know that their intersects for a long time.
139
00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.639
I met this one fifty year old
intersects woman when I was doing advocacy
140
00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.559
two years ago when we were doing
legislation here in California, and she didn't
141
00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:45.399
know that she was intersects until a
couple of years earlier when her husband asked
142
00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:50.000
her about her body and she learned
then, through talking to her family and
143
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.000
talking to doctors, that when she
was a child she had had various forms
144
00:11:54.039 --> 00:12:00.679
of surgeries and procedures done on her
as a child that she didn't understand.
145
00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:05.399
And that's something that's common in the
US right and around the world. So
146
00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:09.679
you could be born intersects and your
parents are a doctor is going to decide
147
00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:15.080
what they think you should look like. Is that like that? That's what
148
00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:20.759
happens. So then that person could
be more feminine and because of a doctor
149
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:24.159
they're decided nope, you are going
to be male, because I say so.
150
00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:28.639
You got it. I think that
we live in a culture where when
151
00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:35.120
a person is born with a body
that doesn't quite fit into the standard,
152
00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.759
that doesn't quite fit into what we
understand. We immediately see it as wrong.
153
00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.440
We immediately sign it as something that's
bad. We can't compute it as
154
00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.360
being this or that, right or
wrong, right. It doesn't make sense
155
00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.440
to us. So we automatically try
to fix it. And the truth is
156
00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.840
that a lot of intersects people don't
need to be fixed. A lot of
157
00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.879
these kids shouldn't be fixed and ultimately, if they do want to be fixed
158
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:03.759
or do want to be corrected on, or whatever that be, that should
159
00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:07.000
be their choice. It shouldn't be
up to the parents or up to the
160
00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:11.000
surgeons to operate on them or change
their bodies or assign them anything. When
161
00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:15.360
they're firstborn or as children, they
should be able to have the autonomy to
162
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:20.080
decide what to do with their own
bodies. And so those those what we're
163
00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.440
speaking kind of broadly. But those
kids, they're if these are not like
164
00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:30.799
life threatening conditions where it had it's
all based on esthetic, esthetic and misconception
165
00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.720
to around what it means to be
intersects and, of course, going back
166
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:39.679
to this stigma of being outside the
binary, not conforming to male or female,
167
00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.279
man or woman. It's something that
everyone's trying to change and correct and
168
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:48.039
fix and again like I said,
it's not necessarily needing of to being fixed.
169
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:54.399
It's perfectly healthy and natural and more
common than we know. When we
170
00:13:54.440 --> 00:14:01.559
come back how Addison broke the binary, plus on learning Transphobia, encountering transphobia
171
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:16.639
and healing. nonbinary refers to people
who just don't identify in the traditional binary
172
00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:22.159
of man or woman. So this
refers to gender. But sometimes people also
173
00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:28.240
like to extend the not the nonbinary
umbrella to include sex as well. So
174
00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:33.960
some intersects people will identify as nonbinary
because their intersects, and sometimes not.
175
00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.919
I am someone who's nonbinary. I
identify as nonbinary because I just don't feel
176
00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:43.600
like a man or woman. I
just don't identify as either. I've never
177
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:50.840
felt that the binary has suited me
and I've felt just so much more than
178
00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.240
that. Too many nonbinary people come
in different forms. We all look different
179
00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:01.360
and we might use different pronouns to
not every nonbinary person's going to use a
180
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:07.240
gender neutral pronoun or just use one
Pronoun. I know many nonbinary people who
181
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.320
go by she or go by he
or mix it up and use maybe all
182
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.679
different types of pronouns too, like
I know a lot of people who use
183
00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.320
I want to say it's he them, like that that they like like she
184
00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.080
them, he them, but as
like an incorporation of both. But they
185
00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.759
then pronouns and then the gendered pronouns. You got it. Yeah, so
186
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:31.279
it's really about preference. It's really
up to preference to when it comes to
187
00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:33.600
pronouns, because pronouns are just like
your name. You know, your name
188
00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:39.360
isn't always completely define you either too. It's just a nice little characteristic of
189
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.159
who you are, or Nice title
to the book that you are right,
190
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.279
but doesn't completely define who you are. Pronouns are kind of the same way
191
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.159
too. It's really important to use
pronouns because, just like someone's name,
192
00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:56.000
you should use their correct name and
you should use their correct pronouns, however
193
00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.919
they decide that you want them to
use. And then when people don't,
194
00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:03.120
that's when we start getting into like
misgendering. Yeah, so misgendering is when
195
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:08.399
we refer to a person with the
wrong gender identity or the wrong pronoun and
196
00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:12.399
so, for me, I'm someone
who is male signed up birth, but
197
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.679
I don't identify as a man,
I don't identify as a boy, I
198
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:21.320
don't identify as masculine, and so
when I'm walking down the street or I
199
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:25.879
see even a friendly face or a
stranger and they call me he and him
200
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.360
or call me referred to me as
a boy or a man and stuff.
201
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:33.600
That is this misgendering, because you're
not seeing me for who I am,
202
00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:37.159
and that's what it comes down to, is it's about seeing a person,
203
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:42.200
understanding that how we see a person
visually in front of us and that that
204
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:47.720
ability to look at a person doesn't
mean that you're really seeing us and understanding
205
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.879
us and supporting us too. So
that's why it's so important to never assume
206
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:57.240
anyone's gender, never assume someone's pronouns, and never assume someone's journey either too.
207
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:02.960
That's why it's really important for us
as people, as allies, as
208
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.720
community members, to sit down and
get to know each other's stories, to
209
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:08.640
learn more about how we can be
there for each other, but how to
210
00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:15.319
really see them too. When you're
consulting, how do you teach people to
211
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.880
because I would say it's probably not
as common when you meet someone. Maybe
212
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.400
it's not that it's not common,
but you're not taught, let's say that
213
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.559
in school, you don't learn like
when you walk up to whoever this person
214
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.359
is a kid, you don't say, Oh, what is your p that's
215
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:30.920
not the first thing you say.
Right, is like what's your Pronoun and
216
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.319
sometimes, like you said, someone
may be Sally, but then their pronouns
217
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:38.799
are they them? Yep, right. So how do you teat? How
218
00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.960
do you help people understand? How
do you teach them how to do that
219
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.839
without, you know, feeling awkward
or whatever? Yeah, I think that,
220
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.079
first of all, it's just letting
folks know that we're all on this
221
00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:55.799
journey together. Whether you are SIS
gender, and SISGENDER refers to people whose
222
00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:00.240
gender identity that they were assigned at
birth, that these still identify if I
223
00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:04.279
with it, and that's something that
most people identify as, which is totally
224
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:11.200
fine. So it whether your SIS
gender or transgender or non binary or whatever
225
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.559
that be, we are all conditioned
to Transphobia, we are all conditioned to
226
00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:22.240
homophobia and Queer Phobia and as all
on us as individuals to unlearn that and
227
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.559
unpack that too. So I try
to creep spaces where people don't feel shame
228
00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:32.319
around addressing their own is M's.
They don't feel shame around addressing their own
229
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:37.440
shame as well, and they know
that it's okay to unpack that, to
230
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:42.079
learn that and to unlearn a lot
of it too, when it comes to,
231
00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:47.039
you know, getting people to really
think too about how to relearn how
232
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:51.640
to use pronouns to I just think
about, you know, times when there
233
00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.440
have been celebrities or friends who have
changed their names or change the last names
234
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.920
even to when they get married,
or they have a new nickname right,
235
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.039
and these are all things that we
like to adjust to and we're okay with
236
00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:08.480
right, because we want to be
affirming and sensitive. So we need to
237
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:14.559
really extend that same idea and that
same mentality to Trans People, nonbinary people,
238
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:18.599
to about saying, okay, if
you use a different name or different
239
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.160
pronoun than I thought you did,
okay, it should be an easy switch
240
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.599
for me. All work on that
and I'll know to use that one for
241
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:30.279
you, right. And it's really
about being affirming to the individual rather than
242
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:34.440
assuming based on how they look and
how we interpret it to that's how can
243
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.839
I break it down for people?
Did you do you feel like you had
244
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.480
to unlearn all those things? Absolutely
and didn't take you time. Was it
245
00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:48.920
quick for you? Is it?
I have been out as non binary for
246
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.920
wow, it's been since two thousand
and thirteen. So it's a been about
247
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.880
six years, almo over six years, and I myself have still been on
248
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:03.839
a journey of unlearning and unpacking my
own transphobia and my own shame. And
249
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.359
when I look in the mirror as
a general conforming person, there are days
250
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:11.079
when I go wow, I look
amazing, I'm so happy with how I
251
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:17.799
look, I feel gender euphoric,
I feel so aligned with who I am,
252
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:21.839
and then there's some days where that
transphobia kind of creeps up still and
253
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:23.880
I look at myself when I go, what the hell are you doing?
254
00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:29.559
Shouldn't you look like a man or
woman? Shouldn't you conform to the binary?
255
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:33.039
So I know that on learning my
own transphobia, on learning my own
256
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:37.480
queer phobia, is it going to
be a lifelong process. When I walk
257
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:42.880
out into public spaces with my partner, who's a trench gender man and we
258
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:48.519
are together too, I still am
sometimes hesitant about holding hands in public or
259
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:56.359
having any other form of public you
know, PDA, and so it's something
260
00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.160
that I'm constantly on learning and getting
more comfortable with with myself, and that
261
00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.480
also translates was how with how I
see my own community. Sometimes too.
262
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.839
So it's a journey. It's a
journey for me, it's a journey for
263
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:17.000
our community and it's a journey for
everyone to unpack and and learned that I
264
00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:22.599
feel that it is a balance and
it's a dance sometimes too. I feel
265
00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:26.160
that, you know, we are
fortunate to live in a really progressive area.
266
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.039
I want to say, and I
say that hesitantly, because I feel
267
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:34.319
that, you know, there are
many places throughout the US that are deemed
268
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:40.279
as not progressive or unsafe, and
sometimes that's the places where there's the most
269
00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:44.759
radical activism happening and the communities is
strongest. I think about the south,
270
00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:48.319
I think about, you know,
Texas, I think about Atlanta, I
271
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.200
think about Georgia, I think about
so many different cities and states to throughout
272
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.200
the south that might be seen as
unsafe, but they truly are. But
273
00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.640
for me, I think walking out
in Los Angeles to I think there is
274
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.559
a as level of privilege and a
level of luxury that we have to with
275
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:11.000
knowing that there are a lot of
out and open lgbtq people nearby and around
276
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.400
and that we have a little bit
more freedom here to to be open about
277
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:18.160
who we are and to hold hands
and at the same time I still get
278
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.799
harassed, I still get treated sometimes
really horribly walking down the street too,
279
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:29.839
and I have to learn how to
reframe that violence as not being about me,
280
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.319
but it's about that person being hurt. It's about that person projecting their
281
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:38.119
own pain. Sometimes I think,
too, that the people who are trying
282
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:42.759
to hurt us the most are the
people who may be in the community themselves,
283
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:48.640
but have so much shame and so
much trauma and so much pain that
284
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.240
they just take it out on us. You just have to be strong enough
285
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:57.599
to know that and realize that that
it's not about you at all, mm
286
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:00.759
because you don't really affect their life
at all when you walk by. I
287
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.359
gotta the other day I was walking
down the street with my dog, Stevie,
288
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:11.079
and I take him out for walks
every morning and typically he has certain
289
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.599
spots where you likes to pee and, you know, to his thing and
290
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.519
in the morning. This was a
few weeks ago. I was walking out
291
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:21.799
and by this bus stop, this
guy was sitting there and as I was
292
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.839
walking next to him, he started
yelling at me and harassing me about my
293
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.400
pants in particular. I was wearing
these girls sweat pants he was saying.
294
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.559
He was saying that I can't be
wearing them, that I look like a
295
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:38.279
fagot and all these different things.
And in that very moment, stevie decided
296
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:44.240
that he needed to pee. Now, typically, as someone who has been
297
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:48.000
harassed on the street, I try
to keep walking, I try to keep
298
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:52.319
my head down, I try it
to escalate the situation because of that fear
299
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:57.039
of what could happen, fear of
what has happened to over twenty trench gender
300
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:02.359
women of Color in this country right
as just this year, just this year,
301
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:06.400
a well over three hundred around the
world too, in the past year.
302
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.799
I think about so many other queer
and Trans people who have been attacked
303
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.640
and killed just for being who they
are and being unapologetic. Right. So
304
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:18.720
typically keep my head down and it
is try not to say anything or do
305
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:22.200
anything, just get out of the
situation. But, like I said,
306
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.799
my dog in that moment decided that
he needed to pee right then and right
307
00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:30.319
there. So I stopped and the
guy still yelling at me and I did
308
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:36.000
something that I've never done before and
I looked him in the eyes and he
309
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:41.839
stopped yelling at me and we just
made eye contact for about five seconds and
310
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:45.839
in that five seconds I looked deep
into his eyes and I realized that this
311
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:52.880
was a person who was in deep
pain, this was a person who felt
312
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:59.960
powerless and he was trying to get
his power away from me. This was
313
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.440
someone who needed help. And at
at five seconds he broke eye contact.
314
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:10.119
He looked at the ground and all
I asked him was are you okay,
315
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:21.200
and immediately he said I'm sorry.
And for me it completely shifted how I
316
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:26.799
saw him, a completely shifted the
interaction and I no longer felt powerless,
317
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.000
as I often do when I'm harassed
down the street. Instead, I felt
318
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:36.160
powerful, and so I told him
that I wish him a good day and
319
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:42.000
I kept walking. It makes me
very sad that you did. You have
320
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:45.200
to endure that. That's really hard
and it takes a lot of strength.
321
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.200
But what you said when he averted
his eye contact from you, it be.
322
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:56.200
It means that he realized you knew
his truth, that he was upset
323
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:57.839
about something else. Wasn't you,
but he had to take it out on
324
00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:03.240
you. So it does. It
takes a lot that you endure that just
325
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.240
to walk the dog. When I
walk down the street to it's I'm constantly
326
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:12.519
hyper vigilant about interactions like that and
I know that I have the power to
327
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:19.519
act in a way that is proactive, that is beneficial, that won't create
328
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:25.160
or continue any more cycles of trauma
or shame or pain. But it's a
329
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.759
lot to carry, and it's a
lot for I mean, I'm someone who's
330
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:33.359
a white, non binary person.
You have to think about all the Trans
331
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.880
and nonbinary people of Color who are
navigating so many more obstacles and so many
332
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:44.079
more systems than me too, who
go through many more times that type of
333
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.640
violence than I do as well.
Right, but it's already hard enough just
334
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:52.599
being me walking down the street,
trying to get services, getting looks,
335
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:57.079
getting stairs and me constantly worried about, okay, what's going to happen next?
336
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:00.440
What are that was that person going
to say? Is that person going
337
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:06.599
to deny me a service or treat
me a certain way or call me something?
338
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:10.119
And what am I going to do
in that moment too? It's tough
339
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.920
to always think about and to be
constantly on guard about, and that's why
340
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:19.000
I understand to that within our own
trans and on binary communities that because of
341
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:25.200
all that trauma, because of all
of that hyper vigilance. It's sometimes really
342
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:29.559
hard for us to trust ourselves and
to trust each other, and so we
343
00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:33.839
see a lot of internal conflicts sometimes, and sometimes I even hear people outside
344
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:41.079
the community talk about us as being
manipulative or lazy or attention seeking or all
345
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:47.079
these things. But those are all
just signs of needing connection, being overwhelmed,
346
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.039
being tired of all the shit that
we go through and that we need
347
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:56.759
help. Right, you have a
tissue back there. Do I tell me
348
00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:59.960
a little bit about what's coming up
for you as well? I would,
349
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:02.400
I would, I would love to
hear about what's what else is coming up
350
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:06.200
for you. You are like looking
into my soul, which so when you
351
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.680
said that, I'm like you really, I'm sure that man felt very I
352
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.359
honestly, I'm sure he was so
taken aback that he was just like,
353
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:17.279
Oh, fuck, I don't know
what I did. I did something and
354
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:22.680
this person can see inside me.
Yeah, sorry, yeah, that never
355
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.119
happens. It's okay now, you're
good. I don't know why. It
356
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:36.079
was just a very powerful story.
Thank you. You know, it's one
357
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:41.119
thing to go to a business and
teach them how to how to teach their
358
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.640
employees how to treat people correctly that
are different right. How did you do
359
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:51.240
it with your own family? MMM, I'm very fortunate to have a family
360
00:28:51.400 --> 00:29:00.759
that is not only tolerating but accepting
and empowering, and they celebrate me like
361
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:11.880
there's no tomorrow. I was born
in Canada and raised in Michigan and I
362
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:17.759
actually moved out to California when I
was seventeen because I was so scared of
363
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:22.680
what my parents would say when I
did come out as gay back in this
364
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.039
is two thousand and ten. And
when I did move out here and I
365
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.680
started school and I created my whole
safety network of friends just in case something
366
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.720
bad word to happen if I came
out to them. What? Once they
367
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:37.319
came out to them, they were
super supportive and then, in fact,
368
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.240
they said like they're like Addison,
we knew. I was like, damn
369
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:48.359
it. But since, you know, coming out as gay and then Queer
370
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:53.440
and then transcend on binary and then
so many more things, they've still continued
371
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.720
to love me and support me and
everything too. But you know, it's
372
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.920
still a journey with them to trying
to get them to understand new terms and
373
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:04.920
how identify and why identify the way
that I do. So when it comes
374
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:11.039
to working with my family, it's
been all about patients, knowing that people
375
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:17.720
who are, you know, typically
older have therefore been conditioned to and have
376
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:23.519
been around using pronouns and using terms
and understanding ways of living a certain way
377
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:27.519
for a longer time. So when
I introduce, you know, my they
378
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:32.000
then pronouns. To someone maybe of
my age, they might be able to
379
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:34.720
get it a little bit faster than
maybe my parents. My parents. I
380
00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:38.839
have been out to them as a
nonbinary using they then pronouns for, like
381
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:42.200
I said, six and a half, almost seven years, and they still
382
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.079
struggle with my they them pronouns,
and is all that. Patients with me
383
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:49.200
too, I know that they love
me, I know that they they see
384
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:55.799
me and that they're still on learning
and working through their own understandings of gender,
385
00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:00.400
their own transphobia, their own ways
of the world. So it's always
386
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.319
a journey with them too. But
I know that their intentions are good,
387
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.079
and that's what I always remind people
no matter where I go, is that
388
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:12.200
intentions are the most important aspect to
any type of allyship and any type of
389
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:15.400
work. So if you go in
with good intentions that you want to support,
390
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.240
you want to help. I know
that you're doing good work now.
391
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:23.200
I know that also to your carrying
your own is MS, carrying that history,
392
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.359
carrying those things, and that's a
journey in itself to unlearned. Like
393
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:32.480
I said earlier, to I'm constantly
on learning my own transphobia. I'm still
394
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:36.559
trying to understand how to see people, as you know, just to see
395
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:41.079
people, not just to assume who
they are. So even if I'm still
396
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.960
on learning that and I'm still working
through that at the age of twenty seven,
397
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.680
then I know that maybe folks that
are my parents age or older might
398
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:52.640
need a little bit more patients to
and, like you mentioned, you know,
399
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:56.440
in Los Angeles we are exposed to
a lot more diversity than maybe in
400
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:04.279
Michigan. Culture is constantly conditioning you
to like male, female, he her.
401
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.440
That's it, you know. So
I think that that's part of it.
402
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.000
is like you're on learning it while
also being taught it at the same
403
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:15.079
time through repetition. Essentially. I
think that from culture I'm just in a
404
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.000
place where I know that I may
never get like the the you know,
405
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.720
people my family or some as my
friends, even to to get the day
406
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.640
then pronouns correct every single time.
I've had a let go of that because
407
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:31.240
I think that it was frustrating me
for too long to expect them to just
408
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:35.279
get it every single time, and
I wish that that could be the world
409
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.200
that we live in, where people
just automatically understand pronouns and that's what the
410
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:43.960
world that's the type of world that
I think I'm working towards. But in
411
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.880
the meantime I just have to learn
to let some Sam some of those expectations
412
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:52.160
go, unfortunately, and just know
that the person's coming to me with a
413
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:55.759
good heart and with good intentions.
So maybe in lowering my standards a little
414
00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:00.119
bit too much, but I feel
like I just that have been disappointed every
415
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:05.839
time if I don't hold that patient. Sometimes it's tough. Like again,
416
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.640
it's a doubt as a dance,
it's balance and every person's going to react
417
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:16.000
differently and choose how to identify differently, and that's all. It's all valid,
418
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:21.200
it's all correct. Addison has been
out as non binary for about six
419
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.640
years. When we come back we'll
talk about growing up in Michigan and coming
420
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:30.759
out in California, plus the importance
of intersectionality in Gender Queer advocacy and what
421
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:50.839
happens when Your Role Model de Transitions? Because of growing mainstream representation, words
422
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:57.240
like Trans and transgender are much more
widely recognized than other gender nonconforming terms.
423
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.599
Addison self identifies as Trans Feminine,
Non Binary. Well, first of all,
424
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:06.319
trans and transgender. This refers to, you know, a person who
425
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:09.480
is does not identify with the gender
that they were assigned at birth. So
426
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:15.239
there are transgender women who may have
been assigned let's say, boy or male
427
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.960
at birth and they came out as
girls and women at some point. There
428
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.000
are maybe trans men who are,
we first assigned, you know, female
429
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:28.519
or girl at birth and came out
as Boyson, men, right, and
430
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.599
that journey will look different for every
single transperson to and you know, there's
431
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:37.360
also people beyond the binary who are
non binary, who were assigned male at
432
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.440
birth or female birth or whatever,
right, and came out at some point
433
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:46.519
as nonbinary. Trans Feminine in particular, this refers to again, use net
434
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:52.360
trans. So not identifying with gender
you assigned up birth. But Trans Feminine
435
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:57.760
for me encapsulates that I feel feminine
at my core. I don't feel like
436
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:00.320
a woman, I don't feel like
a trans woman, but I do feel
437
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:07.119
this femininity at my core and because
I wasn't when I was assigned at birth,
438
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.239
you know, as a male and
boy, because I was also assigned
439
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:15.199
to be masculine growing up, because
that's what boys and males are expected to
440
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:22.679
be. Because I don't identify as
masculine either. I identify as feminine.
441
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:28.440
I have adopted that term of Trans
Feminine because that's something that wasn't what was
442
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:32.159
assigned to me, but something that
I claim now. So I feel feminine
443
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:36.320
my core. I also feel nonbinary
because I just don't feel like a man
444
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:42.519
or woman. So I've embraced both
Trans Feminine and Non Binary. Did you
445
00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:46.440
have growing up? Did you have
the freedom to be gender nonconforming, or
446
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:51.199
do you feel like you did?
You, you know, had to conform?
447
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:53.719
Yeah, absolutely. Well, yes, I felt that I had to
448
00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:00.880
conform and I felt that it wasn't
really necessarily because of my parents, and
449
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:04.960
it wasn't necessarily because of the adults
around me either too. It was actually
450
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.199
because of the kids on the playground
and my peers, and it all really
451
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:14.440
started, I want to say,
when I was maybe like five or six.
452
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:16.760
That's when it goes back to the
bullying, the bullying on the playground
453
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:22.639
and calling me names and shaming me
for being feminine, shaming me for having,
454
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:30.679
quote unquote, like Queer homosexual traits, right for acting like a girl.
455
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.960
Those are all things that I was
shamed for for a long time,
456
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:38.960
and so I felt that I couldn't
express myself in a way that was fully
457
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:45.719
feminine or General Conforming. I found
ways to still be able to express myself.
458
00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:50.920
I danced a lot, into a
lot of art, but even then
459
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.039
I didn't feel free and I feel
like myself. I often looked at the
460
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:58.119
girls that I danced with and I
wish that I was them. You know,
461
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:01.920
I do remember back and call and
a college in high school. This
462
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:07.639
is back in Michigan. There was
in openly gender fluid person that which my
463
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:14.599
school and they were two years earlier
or two years older than me and going
464
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:20.400
to homecoming, going to prom.
They wore these beautiful oak tour like outfits
465
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:27.559
and were unapologetic about being general conforming
and gender fluid, and I saw all
466
00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:31.679
of the pain that they went through. I saw all of the bullying that
467
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:37.199
they faced. Two I saw I
saw all of it and because I saw
468
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:44.000
that, it registered with me that
that was something that I shouldn't do that.
469
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.960
I wasn't ready to do that.
I was I felt that if I
470
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:51.000
did express at that time and face
all of that, that I may not
471
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:54.480
make it out alive, you know. So I hid in my shame,
472
00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:02.960
I hid under the Queer Phobian Transphobia
to protect myself right from myself and from
473
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:09.559
others. And even though, you
know, they went on and had a
474
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:16.599
happy life and they could have been
a symbol of resilience for me and a
475
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:22.360
symbol of confidence or giving me that
that strength to be able to come out
476
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.599
at that time, it just wasn't
the same for me, which is why
477
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:30.760
I tell people to that folks who
are so out and open and that representation
478
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.559
that we need isn't going to automatically
register for someone as being okay, now
479
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:38.519
I can come out. Sometimes it's
that okay, you're doing that and I'm
480
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:42.760
going to see how that works for
you and if it works for you and
481
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:49.000
you get celebrated or rejected or shamed
or whatever that be, that's going to
482
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:51.840
determine whether or not I'm ready to
come out or not to you know,
483
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:58.679
everyone's coming out. Turnings going to
be different that person. Eventually, you
484
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:00.440
know, served as my role model. Eventually, when I did come out,
485
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:06.119
though, and even though I wasn't
ready the time to come out later
486
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:09.559
in life in college, when I
did come out as nonbineering trans, I
487
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:15.360
felt that I could reflect back on
that person and go, okay, they
488
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.199
did it and now I can do
it now, now that I'm ready,
489
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.679
now that I'm stronger, now that
I have a better community around me.
490
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:29.199
And unfortunately, a few years ago
that person actually detransitioned and now runs a
491
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:36.599
right wing video blog on Youtube,
and it hurt to learn about that.
492
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:45.599
It hurt to see someone who was
my inspiration, my role model in a
493
00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:52.360
way, to to now be posting
videos that are vehemently against Trans people and
494
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:59.559
against the community. And it again
goes back to me about shame and it
495
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:04.440
goes back to pain and trauma and
I think about all the things that they
496
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:08.079
went through when I was there with
them in high school. I think about
497
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:13.360
whether their family was accepting or not. I think about whether, being back
498
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.519
in Michigan, what type of community
that they had, and thinking to again,
499
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:22.639
like I said earlier, that our
own community can sometimes not be able
500
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:28.000
to trust each other or sometimes take
out our anger and trauma on each other.
501
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:31.320
Right. I think about all those
possibilities for this person and what could
502
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:36.880
have driven them to the point that
they needed to de Transition, they needed
503
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:43.400
to now post these horrible, violent
videos even and I just feel sad.
504
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:46.360
I feel sad for that person.
I feel sad for so many other trans
505
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:50.320
people who still can't come out or
feel that they need to go back to
506
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:58.039
the closet because of fear, because
of pain, because of trauma. Did
507
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:02.719
you have a low point that you
got to before you came out, because
508
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:08.639
it had to have been really hard
knowing, like even seeing that person living
509
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:12.880
the truth you wanted to be able
to live. was there a moment that
510
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.000
you remember where you were like,
I don't know, you look in the
511
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:20.079
mirror and you're like this is not
it, this is not the person,
512
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.599
this is not the life, this
isn't what's supposed to be happening. You
513
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:27.159
know, I think that it's it
would. For me it was less of
514
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:31.239
a moment of you know, I
can't do this anymore and it was more
515
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:36.840
of a moment. There was a
moment for me when I went Aha and
516
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:42.239
it clicked, and that was specifically
for me. I will always remember this.
517
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:46.960
It was two thousand and ten.
I was a freshman in college and
518
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:52.639
it was Halloween and that Halloween I
was like, you know what, I'm
519
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:55.599
going to dress up as a sexy
which because I had just come out as
520
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:59.239
gay and I was like I can
do a little drag now, you know,
521
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:01.599
I'm out as day, I can
do this whatever. So I had
522
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:05.840
all these girlfriends and they were you
know, we were in my dorm room
523
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:08.000
and we were getting dressed and I
put on the WIG and I put on
524
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:13.440
the stockings and this stress and the
little Foa or a feather boa whatever it
525
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:17.920
is, and I looked at myself
in the mirror and I saw myself in
526
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:25.519
this hyper feminine expression. It just
clicked for me and I was like this
527
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:32.039
feels right, and I couldn't explain
it and I didn't have the words for
528
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:37.159
it, but all that came to
mind was the laughter from behind me,
529
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:42.800
as my girlfriends were laughing about it
and they all thought it was this big
530
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.400
joke because, going in with it
too, it kind of was supposed to
531
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:50.360
be this joke, supposed to be
this fun Halloween drag kind of outfit.
532
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:54.239
was supposed to be serious, but
it felt serious in that moment and hearing
533
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:59.559
their laughter, it made me feel
like this was supposed to be a joke,
534
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.239
this isn't supposed to feel like this, and so I buried that feeling
535
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:09.639
and a year later I was studying
abroad. So I was no longer around
536
00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:15.719
those girl friends, I was no
longer around my Chapman University community, I
537
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:21.800
was around a whole new group of
people on semester at sea, and that's
538
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.360
a program that we're on a cruise
ship for a whole semester and we go
539
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:30.360
sit, you know, two different
countries and we explore and learn more and
540
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:35.840
engage with the community. It's a
beautiful experience and because I felt like I
541
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:38.920
had a whole new community around me, I tried it again for Halloween.
542
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:43.280
I was like, let's let's do
this again, and this time I dressed
543
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:46.280
up as Ursula, from a little
mermaid, but when she transforms to like
544
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:51.000
the beautiful, you know, so
eductress or whatever, right, and we
545
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.320
are in Vietnam at the time and
I had a custom ad dressed done for
546
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:57.840
me. I got a wig,
I got some shoes and when I dress
547
00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:00.639
up again, I had that same
feeling again, but this time I had
548
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:05.920
a different community around me. And
the community this time was like, you
549
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:12.599
look so beautiful, you look amazing, and they celebrated me instead of laughing.
550
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:16.960
And from that moment, on Halloween
two thousand and eleven, I not
551
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:21.880
only felt the Aha moment that I
did the year earlier, but I also
552
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:29.440
felt the celebration and that completely launched
me off into my gender journey. So
553
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:34.000
from then on I sorted, you
know, grow out my hair, more
554
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:37.960
as our wearing, more makeup,
I did more quote unquote, drag and
555
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:42.280
cross dressing, and I got to
the point two years later when I was
556
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:45.719
like you know what, I know
it's not just about how I look,
557
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.719
because it's about how I feel,
and I don't feel like a man,
558
00:44:51.079 --> 00:44:59.840
I don't feel like a woman,
I'm not pineer. The LGBTQ PLUS COM
559
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:05.400
unity encapsulates so many different spectrums of
identity, each with their own set of
560
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:10.639
struggles. So when I think about
spectrums of identity, they can include race,
561
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:20.440
class, nationality, ethnicity, abilities, so many different things go into
562
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:24.639
our spectrums right in our identities.
But for the LGBTQ community we're dealing with
563
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:31.719
sexual orientation, gender identity, sex
identity, gender expression, right, and
564
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:37.280
those are four things that each have
different issues in different needs as well.
565
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.440
To you, right. So we're
talking about Trans People. Trans people can
566
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:49.400
also be straight or queer or bisexual
or whatever. Be Right, and Queer
567
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:52.159
people could be trans, could be
sis, could be whatever, right,
568
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:58.119
could be intersects. Intersects people could
be queer, could be straight, could
569
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:01.400
be trans, could be not right, because sometimes intersects people, when they're
570
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:06.079
often assigned a gender at birth,
of being a boy or girl, even
571
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:10.480
though they're intersects. Right, most
intersect people actually grow up and they continue
572
00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:14.840
to identify with the gender that they
were as signed at birth. Right.
573
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:19.039
But the issue is around surgeries at
birth, right, not necessarily around coming
574
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.760
out as a certain gender identity.
What we're now we're getting into more transgender
575
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:28.559
issues. Right. So you see
how sometimes they're different issues and different needs.
576
00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:32.360
But it's interesting. What brings us
all together is that stigma that we
577
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:37.440
face is that we're supposed to fit
into a neat box, right, and
578
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:43.320
that we have certain roles that were
supposed to follow as men and women,
579
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:49.159
Male, female, Masklin Feminine,
Right, and our community just doesn't do
580
00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:52.960
that. So that's how we that's
how we all come together, is by
581
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:55.480
what we face and by what we
go through, not necessarily because of how
582
00:46:55.480 --> 00:47:00.320
we identify, but because the world
doesn't see US differently. You can be
583
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:06.719
a a gay man walking down the
street, a Trans Woman, an intersects
584
00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:09.559
person to and people see you because
you look different and they can call you
585
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:16.159
the same slur right, because they
see us all the same, unfortunately.
586
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:20.800
So, because we're seeing as all
the same, we have to unite together,
587
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:22.679
we have to be there for each
other and support each other and with
588
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:28.440
that recognized, to that under that, under that umbrella, some of us
589
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.719
have privilege, some of us don't, right, and so we really have
590
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:36.679
to recognize, okay, what do
I go through? That is a little
591
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:43.920
bit easier than my Trans Women of
Color Siblings or my intersect siblings, or
592
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:47.119
whoever it be, right, how
can I really step up and support them,
593
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:51.639
because we're all going through the same
shit, we're all going through these
594
00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:55.920
same systems. Right, makes sense? Yeah, definitely. You. You
595
00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:00.679
kind of hit something to where you
talked about your are I think you said
596
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:06.000
it was your white privilege m a
little bit ago. Yeah, your experience
597
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:09.159
can be really hard, just taking
the dog out. Do you feel like
598
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:14.360
your friends, people who are,
let's say, Trans Women of Color,
599
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:20.719
yeah, face even more animosity just
because they're not white. Absolutely, absolutely,
600
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:24.000
I think that Cutiepok, which is
Queer and Trans people of Color,
601
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:31.760
specially black and indigenous Queer and Trans
people, go through so many more obstacles
602
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:37.400
and hoops and loops and is m's
and I will ever have to. And
603
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:39.280
that's not something that I just know
from experience, as something that we see
604
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:44.639
in statistics and data to right and
in fact, to when we're thinking about
605
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:50.800
Trans Day of Remembrance, with which
just passed, most of the list are
606
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:55.320
transgender women of Color, specifically black, Latina and Indigenous Trans Women, and
607
00:48:55.320 --> 00:49:01.400
we also think too about how sixty
one percent of murders of transgender murders since
608
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:06.599
two thousand and eight have been of
sex workers. We also have to think
609
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:13.280
too that many of these Trans Women
of color are denied employment opportunities and economic
610
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.400
achievement and the ability to thrive that
they have to, you know, really
611
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:22.280
rely on survival, sex work in
order to live and to just survive,
612
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.239
not even thrive, just to survive. And there is something wrong with sex
613
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:30.920
work, of course, but when
that's your only option and and that option
614
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:36.599
comes with so many layers of stigma, and violence in itself, to from
615
00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:42.679
clients and from police officers, to
who are also racially motivated right and also
616
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:46.639
transphobic, and may even take aok
advantage of those situations to to sexually assault
617
00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:51.480
those Trans Women of color who are
engaging in sex work. You just have
618
00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:55.000
to think, too, about how
many more obstacles they go through. When
619
00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.760
I used to work at transiting a
coalition and Apai T and strength united here
620
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:07.559
in Los Angeles County, providing services
to survivors of violence or people who were
621
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:13.159
homeless or people who needed HIV care, most of my clients and most people
622
00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:19.719
that I see from my programs were
transgender women of color. So it's just
623
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:23.360
I didn't see a lot of white, non binary or Trans People like me.
624
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:30.800
I saw people who are at those
intersections of facing multiple layers of oppression,
625
00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:37.639
multiple forms of is m's right,
and navigating that in a way where
626
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:42.719
they're just trying to survive. And
for me, thankfully, I am not
627
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.559
at that point where I'm just trying
to survive. I can thrive, I
628
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.920
can be me. I'm in love, I have a good job, I
629
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:54.440
have my own business and I have
a loving, supportive community too, and
630
00:50:54.480 --> 00:51:00.039
I also have the tools in order
to be me and success, the successful,
631
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:05.400
and these are tools that I know
and a family and so many other
632
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.079
opportunities that I know have come to
me because of my white privilege, and
633
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:13.800
that's something that our own community has
to recognize too, that it's not just
634
00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:20.039
about being gay or trans. Will
mean that you're going to be susceptible or
635
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:23.519
vulnerable to all different types of hate. We might even be able to get
636
00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:30.559
into more rooms and more opportunities because
of our white privilege, right, and
637
00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:35.119
that's not something that's bad to talk
about. It's just a fact and once
638
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:37.719
we acknowledge it as a fact and
we can address that, we can really
639
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:43.760
leverage that in order to make more
significant change for the community and really step
640
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:47.320
up as allies, step up as
advocates, step up with our platforms and
641
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:52.920
privilege in order to make that change. To Circle back to the the role
642
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:58.599
model, you have their youtube channel. Have you spoken to that person since?
643
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:05.519
I tried, since they detransitioned.
Yeah, I've tried. I let
644
00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:07.760
that person know that you know that
I'm always here to talk, you know,
645
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:13.679
for them to talk to me they
ever want to, and that person
646
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:22.440
just ignored my messages and I don't
expect anything to come out of it necessarily,
647
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:24.840
but I do hope that they know
that if they do every want to
648
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:30.480
talk about it and, I don't
know, just open up a little bit
649
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:35.079
more to that, they can.
But again, I don't know the full
650
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:39.719
story and I don't know everything that
they've been through, but I hope that
651
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:46.400
one day or at some point they
have the tools and community and support that
652
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:52.840
they need. And this person is, you know, talking about race right.
653
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:58.760
This person was a openly general conforming
black person to write. So thinking
654
00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:02.320
to also about all the layers that
they're going through that I haven't had to
655
00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:10.800
go through, right, and all
the pressure to to conform. Yeah,
656
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:17.320
it's tough. It's like I saying
earlier, there's a lot of there's a
657
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:22.119
lot of things that we go through
as community members to and at the same
658
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:27.519
time there's so much hope. I
mean just this year alone we've seen more
659
00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:31.159
trans in nonbinary people in media than
ever before. I'm I haven't seeing so
660
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:37.000
many more people not just writing books
about Trans and albinary people, but trans
661
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:43.559
and nonbinary artists and writers taking those
steps to share their own stories too.
662
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:47.280
I love seeing how much advocacy is
coming out of the world right now to
663
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:52.079
in, even though we're in a
chaotic and scary time with our own government
664
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:58.280
too. I feel that sometimes it's
under that type of pressure that the most
665
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:02.239
beautiful, organized thing and ideas come
out, and that's what I've been seeing.
666
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:08.079
is so much resilience, so much
strength, and I know that our
667
00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:15.320
future is only going to get brighter
and will have more opportunities to be not
668
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:25.320
only us but to thrive as nonbinary
intersects trans people, not only as Addison,
669
00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:30.519
doing amazing advocacy work within the LGBTQ
pus community, but they're also committed
670
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:36.679
to simply being a beacon of light
and hope. Addison is an activist you
671
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:38.840
want to keep up with. So
if you want to follow me on Instagram,
672
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:45.760
you can find me at at break, the binary, so break tche
673
00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:52.039
ban a ARY. Had to like
think about that for a second. You
674
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:55.199
can also find me on facebook,
which is Addison Rose Vincent. You can
675
00:54:55.320 --> 00:55:01.320
follow my business to on instagram or
on facebook at break the Binary LLC.
676
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:07.039
You can also follow nonbinary union of
Los Angeles if you'd like to join our
677
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:17.400
monthly social events. That is at
the Nebula so tche NBULA yeah, do
678
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:22.000
you have anything else you want to
talk about? Just want to let folks
679
00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:25.039
know that, you know, if
you're listening and you someone who's struggling with
680
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:31.000
your own gender identity or your sex
identity and you don't feel you have anyone
681
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:35.559
to talk to, please know that
you can always message me, that there
682
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:40.280
are so many people out there that
understand what you're going through and that you're
683
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:45.000
just not alone, that I'm here
for you, I support you and you'll
684
00:55:45.000 --> 00:56:12.960
get through anything. Thanks for listening. We want to take a minute now
685
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:16.320
to honor Trans Day of Remembrance,
which was on November. Twenty at least
686
00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:22.320
twenty two trans and non binary people
were killed this year in the US alone.
687
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:50.000
Pride is a production of Straw hut
media. If you like the show,
688
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:53.639
leave us a rating and a review
on Apple podcasts, spotify or wherever
689
00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:58.599
you're tuning in from. Share us
with your friends, subscribe and follow us
690
00:56:58.679 --> 00:57:02.519
on Instagram, facebook and twitter at
pride. You can follow me at Lea
691
00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:07.079
by chambers. Pride is produced by
me, Maggie Bowls and Ryan Tillotson,
692
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:38.480
edited by Sebastian all Colla. I
know I like it because it makes me
693
00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:42.039
feel like a pilot, oh my
God, right, like we should be
694
00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:45.920
like and we're coming into Chicago.
Thank you very much for flying. Please
695
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:50.800
stow your yeah, you're Michael Pilot. I love it. Okay,
