E24 : Power Time Predictions: Invisible CRMs, Personal AI & the Robot Rise

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Let's get into it.
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Hi, everyone. Welcome to Power Time. This is the long-awaited predictions episode.
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And we couldn't have a predictions episode if we didn't bring back to the show
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Nathan Backers and Brent O'Toole, who did our predictions show,
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if everyone remembers, 12 months ago now. And I'm joined here with Matt, my co-host as well.
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Nathan, Brent, probably not everyone knows who you are, so I'm a quick intro
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on who you are, and then we'll get into what we think our predictions are for next year.
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And more importantly, have a bit of fun covering off the ones just briefly that
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we predicted last year that probably didn't work or come out. That's true.
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So anyway, Nathan, over to you.
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Who are you? What do you do? Yeah.
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Nice to meet everybody if I haven't met you before.
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My name is Nathan Bucket.
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Maybe we start that one again.
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Just keep rolling, mate. Just keep rolling. Yeah, my name is Nathan Bucket.
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I'm a Power Platform Solution Engineer. I work in Scott's team.
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Really hard bloke to work for.
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We'll unpack that later, Nathan, don't worry.
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No, but I work in Scott's team. So, yeah, look across Copilot Studio and Power
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Platform specifically.
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But, yeah, solution engineer and I end over to Brent. Yeah, thanks, Nathan.
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And, yeah, g'day to everyone listening at home, I guess, is probably what you
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wanted to say there, Nathan.
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But, yeah, Brent O'Toole, I'm a solution engineer. Also in Scottie's team,
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can confirm he's pretty hard to work for, but he fogs us pretty hard.
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Nah, it's going to turn into the roast of Scott on this episode, I think.
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But yeah, I look after everything from Dynamics 365, like CRM side of applications,
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so sales, customer insights,
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service, and the contact center, as well as Copilot Studio and all things kind
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of AI, which is probably where we're going to focus a lot of our predictions today.
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All right, awesome. So, Matt, you've had a pretty busy couple of weeks.
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Any highlights you want to share with the team and our listeners who always
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get a good laugh over your… Me, my antics. Okay.
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I went and saw my friend fight on the Tim Zucar. That was a bit of a highlight,
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so he won, which was good.
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That was the first of the four-day quadrilla, I called it.
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So I had a few Christmas parties on and a lot of that kind of stuff,
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A bit of a celebration to the festive season, which was good.
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Took our team out at Get.A.R., which was really good fun as well on the Thursday.
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And then Friday, I caught up with my good friend, Uncle Johnny,
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Uncle JK. So that was good to catch up with him and then had the boxing Christmas party on Saturday.
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So yeah, well and truly over it.
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Ready to get back to my health kick that I'm on at the moment.
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So I'm actually off to Colorado in January for a client meeting,
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which will be pretty cool. So I'm going to hit the slopes for that one.
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And then I'm New York in May as well next year. So we can delve on those as
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part of the predictions, but it has been a busy time to the year. It's been a crazy year.
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Every time I look at the clock, I can't believe we're so close to Christmas.
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But yeah, it's been a bit of a whirlwind from a year, but really exciting.
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A lot of momentum for Get.AI. So I was super excited about that.
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But what about yourself, mate? What have you been up to over the last sort of
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couple of weeks? It's been, yeah, been super busy.
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Again, we'll probably air this first couple of weeks into Jan.
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So, you know, in a couple of weeks time, it's right on the end of the year now. but
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yeah just uh i can't believe how fast everything's
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moving right now and and you know it seems like only
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yesterday we were doing these predictions so yeah next
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year is going to be no different i think as we kind of move into
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it but yeah just catching up with people has been
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kind of the theme over the last few weeks and and just tying off some loose
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ends because i'm coming into a few weeks leave which is great so i'm looking
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forward to taking a few weeks off and just relaxing and taking the kids up to
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Bucking Caves which is near a lake centre of its way so yeah really looking
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forward to that over the break.
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Nice. Awesome. So last year when we did the predictions, the way we worked,
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it was two predictions and one fringe prediction that we think might come true, right?
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So let's do the year that was in review.
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So, Matt, your top prediction was, I'm going to read it now,
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I'm looking at the run sheet, was something big will drop that nobody predicts.
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So i'm keen to hear what you're
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gonna say the last time about this drop that we wouldn't have
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predicted or no one no one in the world has predicted give
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it to us what is it either agent 365
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is new and something that i don't
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know but i guess we kind of could predict it that an agent would have their own unique
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identifier and stuff like that so i think that's a bit of a fail i think
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there's a vibe dot power ups that they'll love will compete within power
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us but i think Nathan's kind of stolen my thunder with that one with his
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potential prediction so I don't think that one's really
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come off I think the rate of
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which AI has evolved probably hasn't got to where we
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kind of expected it to as well over the last sort of year I think you know this
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time last year we didn't know obviously that was my prediction but yeah I think
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it's still an evolving beast about where it's going to end up and stuff like
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that so I'll probably mark that one as a bit of a fail unless someone can answer
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that question for me and I'll slip them a 50 so I'm fine for that,
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That's like saying, I think big's going to drop in AI is like saying the sun's
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hot or rain's going to be wet.
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It's pretty generic. I could put on my Trump voice and say, with the beautiful
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AI. This guy has stuff like Trump voice.
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My big prediction was I thought we'd see a big shift in quantum this year,
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like something dropping.
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Clearly we didn't. There's been progress in that space, Scott,
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but there's been a few quantum announcements and different evolutions of it, but yeah,
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I think nothing major in terms of we are going through encryption,
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everyone's encryption using quantum just yet.
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Yeah, and I think probably last year we had the most amount of quantum movement,
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I think, if you want to call it that.
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So definitely that one is probably our
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earlier brent you're you
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were predicting you didn't have it out there you you just had
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a big lifting customer experience yeah i think we've seen
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that like and i think like in the last 12 months
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we've probably like the the adoption of the
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ai in the customer experience like it's probably been the
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hardest kind of egg to crack in terms of like getting customers comfortable
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with allowing that ambiguity of AI or that kind of not directive or not distinctive
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responses that we've seen in the past with chatbots and very scripted responses.
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I think that's kind of been the hardest hurdle to get through with customers,
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but there's definitely been kind of an uplift, I would say, in appetite to explore it.
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There's still obviously deterministic processes that need to happen within any
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customer experience because it's your voice, your brand, your everything.
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It's how you engage with your customers, but yeah, I think there's been some progress there.
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I think, you know, something that's been really interesting this year is when
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we kind of opened the gates and let the horses out, you know,
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this time last year, there was a lot of upside around what we thought AI could do.
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And I think all of us have really tried really hard to kind of get it out in front of our customers.
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And at the end of this year, the stat is 95% of AI proof of concepts have failed.
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So that's really, really interesting, right?
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Because it means that we're building some really good prototypes,
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but customers haven't been able to adopt them in production.
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And I think your prediction around customer experience would have accelerated
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a lot more if we had had more success at being able to crack that nut of how
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we get it into a customer environment for that, because a lot of it is really
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just strong governance.
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So, you know, I think at the end of the day, you know,
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it's about working with customers to make sure that they feel really secure
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rolling out the AI and that we have governance control so it
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can really help with that so I think it's also this year been like AI literacy
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thing with customers as well like man how many times have you gone into a customer
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and said AI can't do that like or what you're trying to do may not be AI it
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may actually just be traditional nation that you're looking for in that role in that regard.
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Oh, mate, literally 75% of the use cases have power automate workflows.
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And Nathan's been on a few calls recently as well, like this is power automate.
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But yeah, it's been a bit wild about that. So I think we'll identify more of
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those AI-specific use cases next year once the customers actually understand
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where they can push that technology.
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It's really about where a human is making a deterministic decision about if
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X do this or all that kind of stuff.
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So I think this year has been a bit of an educational piece to the customers as well.
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You know, AI is not this silver bullet that's going to solve all your problems.
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You know, the core is still solving that business process or business pain point.
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So I'm assuming there's a lot of conversations that everyone on this podcast
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at the moment has had as well.
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But yeah, literally 75% of it, 80% of it, it's still just an automation at the moment. So...
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Yeah yeah and so nathan your your highlight for your prediction was well your
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fringe you're out there one with more wearables because i think we were kind
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of expecting sam altman to drop some,
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you know some more ai kind of wearables out into market that didn't happen so,
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it did hire the right guy to do that but didn't he so yeah he did right so i
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thought we thought he'd move fast on that but i guess it's when you think about
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it it's probably a prediction for next year because you've got it will probably
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take them a year to spin up around you know design,
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you know being able to get the thing produced work
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with your supply chains and get it out to market like it probably takes a little
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bit a year to do that so so yeah maybe that was just a little earlier and the
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other ones you've got were really power platform specific around intelligent
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apps and plan design are starting to come together um i'll back him on that one i'll back him on that,
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He got a Hail Mary at the end of the year with Vibe got power out.
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On the face, Brad read it.
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Sam Altman didn't come to the party, but Mark Zuckerberg did.
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He released the Meta Wayfarers, which I've seen a few people wear around the office.
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So if people went around the office, chalk that one up as a win. So cha-ching.
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I'll give you that. I'll back you. The other one was more around Vibe coding
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experiences and Power Platform sort of transitioning more towards,
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you know, plan designer being the focal point of how people develop.
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And I think, yeah, the announcement a couple of weeks ago at Ignite around Vibe.PowerApps.com.
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Yeah, it's really exciting stuff happening that space you can see
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power platform as it's being pitched as being reborn into
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something else to generate full code full stack applications yeah
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i think there's some exciting stuff to come in
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that space just on the just on the open
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ai device maybe you can have a bit of a sub prediction about what that device
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is actually going to be that they're building so maybe that's for the show yeah
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if there was an ai device that was just solely based off chat gpt for instance
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or Procord or pick any of the models,
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what device would be the one you'd wear, right?
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I'm kind of stuck on a watch, right? Yeah.
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I'd probably ditch the Apple watch to go with an open AI maybe,
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that's the least user interface kind of device that I use.
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I think the phone, I'm still wedded to banking apps and all these kind of stuff,
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I can't see voice or device in that.
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So maybe some headphones, I think maybe glasses, I don't know.
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I think it's a hard one because you still want something that you can access with your eyes, right?
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Like it's the medium and the senses that you're engaging with.
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So like voice is great, but like I don't want to walk out in the street and
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just start talking to my headphones all the time.
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It will look like I'm on the phone all the time. And if that's the only interaction
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I have with whatever the device is, that's really like one medium instead of,
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you know, like, I don't know, maybe we'd be able to spell it, who knows.
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There's also like a societal point of view. Like, would you have the same conversation
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with somebody that's wearing glasses that are recording that you would if they
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weren't? I particularly wouldn't. Yeah, it's the old lens bit.
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Like, when you see the lens, you go, oh, I can freeze.
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So I think there's an impact on how we just interact as humans that need to be taken into account.
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And I think that's, we'll talk about that when we get to our next predictions,
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but I think some of the, I think there's kind of going to be a bit of a turning
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back of AI in society point of view.
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Like I think that people are going to get a bit of fatigue in this space.
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Nobody wants to feel like big brothers watching all the time,
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so to speak. So yeah, I think there's good and bad to it.
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I don't think we've got the language models operating on the edge yet,
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really. So I think there's a fair bit of work to do there before we get to that
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true AI-driven kind of hardware.
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So anyway, good prediction. Solid, Nathan. I will call out one of my predictions
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last year was that Gen AI-built applications become normal.
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SaaS apps get interrupted or disrupted.
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And I think we've seen that, right? Like I think that's a win.
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And shift from AI experiments to ROI.
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We definitely saw a lot of that. So they were pretty solid.
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I thought so then we kind of get 50-50 on our predictions last year on not saying
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that the ones that we predicted were not going to come true that might very
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well come true next year so,
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depends on on how the industry goes so
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awesome well that's our looking back hang on
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before we go on wasn't there a bet of a steak dinner for
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whoever was the most accurate i vaguely remember this happening last year so
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oh i think we'll have to the third the third i'm recording all right i vaguely
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remember being some form of wager i'm pretty sure it was a steak hang on a minute
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how How many steak dinners have you been most? Anyway, yeah.
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A stecker? Matt, lock in a stecker next year. All right, let's do it anyway. We'll go to a stecker.
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Those listening that don't know, that's an awesome restaurant.
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We all love to go and dine at.
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So a really unique restaurant because you have to hand in your mobile phone
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when you get there. To no AI.
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Got to be comfortable with that. Your father ain't watching.
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You have to hand in your glasses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have to do a watch.
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15 minutes to get in in five years you're taking off all your devices time in
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the box so yeah yeah all right well let's kick into let's kick into the predictions
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for the next 12 months you've had a year to think about it and digest where
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we're at who wants to go first.
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Right yeah i can i can go first i think
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like like my predictions i do have a think and then i used a bit of ai to come
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up with them because obviously we don't know what's happening tomorrow with
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open ai and they released a new you know image model this week you know and
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they release new codex versions look like this week as well their christmas
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litmus or whatever they call it shipmas.
00:15:38.592 --> 00:15:41.412
That they've been going through at the moment so it's pretty hard to do any kind
00:15:41.412 --> 00:15:44.192
of predictions at the moment but like one of the ones that i'm seeing a
00:15:44.192 --> 00:15:47.672
lot in customers at the moment starting baby steps
00:15:47.672 --> 00:15:51.372
but getting pretty mature in this space is that your customer
00:15:51.372 --> 00:15:54.572
relationship system stops becoming the traditional
00:15:54.572 --> 00:15:59.632
crm and it becomes invisible so the concept of you know what we're seeing in
00:15:59.632 --> 00:16:04.292
market with some of our products around m365 surfacing you know meetings to
00:16:04.292 --> 00:16:09.672
me so the core data itself as an intelligence layer and being behavioral memory
00:16:09.672 --> 00:16:13.172
is kind of the next evolution I see that coming in our products already,
00:16:13.292 --> 00:16:17.272
but that's probably a surefire prediction for next year's state dinner ticket
00:16:17.272 --> 00:16:23.352
is CRMs becoming that behaviourable memory database layer and then the user
00:16:23.352 --> 00:16:27.332
interface kind of augmenting around that, whatever that is in the flow of work.
00:16:27.432 --> 00:16:30.052
I think that's kind of a key one that we're seeing at the moment.
00:16:30.252 --> 00:16:34.432
You see it with like Copilot for Sales is now in M365 Copilot.
00:16:34.632 --> 00:16:38.972
So you're seeing it already coming into like the world work ecosystem.
00:16:38.972 --> 00:16:42.772
And I think that's kind of a key one. And that feeds sales, marketing,
00:16:43.052 --> 00:16:45.132
service, like they all read from the same memory.
00:16:45.212 --> 00:16:48.372
I think there's a lot of other vendors out there at the moment that have a hard
00:16:48.372 --> 00:16:52.932
time with that because of the way that they've got legacy issues with their
00:16:52.932 --> 00:16:54.672
SaaS platforms that they've architected.
00:16:54.792 --> 00:16:59.152
So I think Microsoft's probably the best place to be for that in playing in
00:16:59.152 --> 00:17:00.872
that space in the work enterprise context.
00:17:01.904 --> 00:17:04.724
I don't think SaaS is dead. I feel like... SaaS is not dead.
00:17:05.284 --> 00:17:09.044
Yeah, I feel like SaaS was really pulling the trigger early on that.
00:17:09.224 --> 00:17:14.864
I get what he's saying, that the UI is changing, but I don't feel like...
00:17:14.864 --> 00:17:18.984
Like when we talk to customers, I still heavily feel like they still want a
00:17:18.984 --> 00:17:23.924
CRM and they still want a structured UI for their teams, but they want to use
00:17:23.924 --> 00:17:26.004
AI to kind of augment that experience.
00:17:26.584 --> 00:17:30.304
We haven't really seen that, hey, here's the autonomous agent that's going to
00:17:30.304 --> 00:17:31.684
take out hundreds of jobs.
00:17:31.904 --> 00:17:36.044
That was also, I think, a lot of people were predicting that that was going
00:17:36.044 --> 00:17:37.924
to kind of take place this year. It hasn't.
00:17:38.344 --> 00:17:41.304
I think that's pretty much, we can say, myth busted.
00:17:41.824 --> 00:17:45.164
AI said, support humans. It's not there to replace humans, I think.
00:17:46.064 --> 00:17:50.624
That's, you know, what I feel. But, Matt, actually, first, Brent,
00:17:50.764 --> 00:17:55.744
before you go, who do you think is going to be the leader in large language at the end of next year?
00:17:56.665 --> 00:18:02.125
That's such a hard one because all of them are just like smidgens above each
00:18:02.125 --> 00:18:03.765
other as soon as they show a new model.
00:18:04.085 --> 00:18:09.025
I still like, you know, I want to back the OG and go OpenAI with like what they're doing.
00:18:09.165 --> 00:18:13.805
But again, you know, we've seen Gemini come out recently with pretty much vengeance
00:18:13.805 --> 00:18:19.165
and put a big, you know, a big scare at OpenAI with Altman calling like a code
00:18:19.165 --> 00:18:21.565
red to focus come back in.
00:18:21.625 --> 00:18:24.665
So I don't know if your wearable for OpenAI is going to come out next year either
00:18:24.665 --> 00:18:31.465
because of the code red, but I think they're still placed well to lead in this space.
00:18:31.685 --> 00:18:37.605
But again, I don't think the future is like which model's the best in terms of generalization.
00:18:37.705 --> 00:18:42.945
I think it's what's best in the specialized use case that you're using it for.
00:18:43.225 --> 00:18:47.065
So, for example, like I'm not going to use OpenAI to go and generate songs,
00:18:47.285 --> 00:18:51.565
but I'll use Suno to go and generate songs because that product has AI in it.
00:18:51.565 --> 00:18:55.105
But it's like open ai will never do that
00:18:55.105 --> 00:18:57.905
part of the ai tool or task or
00:18:57.905 --> 00:19:00.945
thing that i want to do so i think there's probably going to be a lot more players
00:19:00.945 --> 00:19:03.885
in this space like i'm really keen to see personally like
00:19:03.885 --> 00:19:07.525
where video goes and like real-time video analysis
00:19:07.525 --> 00:19:10.825
like i'm working on a little side project at the moment around
00:19:10.825 --> 00:19:14.085
race cars and motorsports and live
00:19:14.085 --> 00:19:16.865
you know video being taken how can i
00:19:16.865 --> 00:19:19.825
use ai to kind of do image processing on that
00:19:19.825 --> 00:19:22.585
to get certain frames or certain shots of
00:19:22.585 --> 00:19:25.525
the car i think there's a lot more to come in that space but
00:19:25.525 --> 00:19:28.545
again i don't think it's going to be a world-leading model that
00:19:28.545 --> 00:19:31.445
kind of wins it's going to be the holistic everyone gets
00:19:31.445 --> 00:19:34.725
lifted up together and then each all the independent vendors
00:19:34.725 --> 00:19:37.625
and users will go and use the models that they want
00:19:37.625 --> 00:19:40.365
to and it's like an iphone android conversation at
00:19:40.365 --> 00:19:43.385
this point like some people are going to use gemini because they're in the google
00:19:43.385 --> 00:19:47.865
ecosystem and i'm going to use apple and open ai now they've gone with google
00:19:47.865 --> 00:19:51.305
again so i don't know who they're going to go with in the end but like i'll
00:19:51.305 --> 00:19:55.525
use whatever device ecosystem i've already bought into amazon's going to do
00:19:55.525 --> 00:19:58.405
their own with anthropic like yeah okay.
00:19:59.204 --> 00:20:02.324
Yeah, I think it's really interesting. I think Elon was talking about obviously
00:20:02.324 --> 00:20:03.964
moving a lot of this stuff to space as well.
00:20:04.084 --> 00:20:09.624
So SpaceX is obviously going to be huge when it comes to actually able to generate that power as well.
00:20:09.784 --> 00:20:12.304
So that's a future state prediction as well.
00:20:12.484 --> 00:20:16.604
But yeah, Elon's obviously the right person to be doing that.
00:20:17.544 --> 00:20:29.044
If we pull the thread on power being the limiting factor for really sophisticated language models,
00:20:29.724 --> 00:20:32.704
you would have to say that China will take the lead next year.
00:20:33.124 --> 00:20:36.764
Yeah. Because they have the most amount of nuclear power in the world right now.
00:20:36.964 --> 00:20:41.624
So if they don't have that as a limiting factor, then, yeah,
00:20:42.384 --> 00:20:46.824
we should see some pretty amazing things come out of DeepSeq. Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:47.724 --> 00:20:49.984
That's kind of the way. Well, it would be interesting to see.
00:20:50.204 --> 00:20:54.664
But, you know, there's another really big pivot this year which we kind of didn't
00:20:54.664 --> 00:20:59.024
see coming, which was kind of that separation between Microsoft and OpenAI and
00:20:59.024 --> 00:21:01.144
Microsoft is now the platform, right?
00:21:01.464 --> 00:21:06.984
Yeah, we've been called in Power Platform now. Oh, yeah. And that M365 code pilot.
00:21:07.824 --> 00:21:11.604
That happens very quickly. Even in the new Kua has the latest Anthropic visual
00:21:11.604 --> 00:21:13.684
model as well that just got dropped in last week.
00:21:13.784 --> 00:21:16.164
We're one of the first partners globally to be using it. Yeah,
00:21:16.264 --> 00:21:18.944
we're actually testing it directly with the product team at the moment. Yeah, wow.
00:21:19.424 --> 00:21:22.604
So Kua, for those listening in, you know what it is, is computer use.
00:21:23.664 --> 00:21:28.684
So it's the ability to be able to, you know, screen grab, screen record it and
00:21:28.684 --> 00:21:30.684
do AR actions off the back of it in our company.
00:21:32.143 --> 00:21:36.063
It's a good segue to my prediction as well, Scott. So, should we just drop it in like this?
00:21:36.203 --> 00:21:40.783
Before we go to you, Brent has to drop. What is the out there prediction?
00:21:41.043 --> 00:21:42.283
You know, what's… Out there.
00:21:44.203 --> 00:21:48.583
It's not really out there, but I think what I'm noticing at the moment,
00:21:48.763 --> 00:21:51.703
and we're kind of talking about this before with AI literacy,
00:21:52.063 --> 00:21:54.723
like I think we're going to notice the customers.
00:21:55.023 --> 00:21:58.883
Like it's the old car example. Everyone that's going to buy a car already walks
00:21:58.883 --> 00:22:02.703
into the dealership and knows what they want already when they walk in.
00:22:02.803 --> 00:22:05.643
They know they want the Honda Civic and they know they want it in this colour
00:22:05.643 --> 00:22:09.383
and they know it's just a formality to go in and talk to the car salesman.
00:22:09.503 --> 00:22:14.423
I think that's going to be what AI becomes for us as technical leaders in this
00:22:14.423 --> 00:22:17.703
space, in solution engineers, like is going talking to the customer.
00:22:17.803 --> 00:22:19.183
The customer will know a lot more.
00:22:19.363 --> 00:22:22.303
And even today, some conversations I'm having with customers,
00:22:22.343 --> 00:22:24.963
they know a lot more about me and we can't be expected to know everything,
00:22:25.183 --> 00:22:28.503
but we try to in terms of like living and breathing in the industry.
00:22:28.503 --> 00:22:32.923
But I think that's going to get a lot deeper and a lot higher,
00:22:33.103 --> 00:22:34.563
that literacy bar with customers.
00:22:34.563 --> 00:22:39.143
And I think that will help us in terms of them already knowing and Matt,
00:22:39.263 --> 00:22:44.663
you're not needing to have those 75% conversations around what are the limiting bounds of AI.
00:22:45.283 --> 00:22:48.163
I think that's kind of where we're going to see the next 12 months.
00:22:48.543 --> 00:22:52.663
The last 12 has been what is AI, how does it work, what does it do?
00:22:52.803 --> 00:22:56.303
And then the next 12 months is finding the limits and then where do we allow
00:22:56.303 --> 00:22:58.163
it to kind of step into that process.
00:22:58.503 --> 00:23:04.603
And allow it to do that task, that activity, that process in the background. I think that's kind of.
00:23:05.253 --> 00:23:08.853
Where businesses are going to start to like do their risk profiles really,
00:23:09.033 --> 00:23:12.173
like is what I talk to my customers about, is like what are you risk comfortable
00:23:12.173 --> 00:23:17.073
with in terms of, you know, allowing that process to be fully autonomous,
00:23:17.273 --> 00:23:21.513
semi-autonomous or requires human in the loop at stage A and stage C,
00:23:21.753 --> 00:23:24.293
like and B does automation through AI.
00:23:24.573 --> 00:23:28.453
So I think that's kind of not out there, but I think like it's something that
00:23:28.453 --> 00:23:31.893
I'm going to probably say is going to happen over the next 12 months.
00:23:31.893 --> 00:23:34.553
And when we come back next year, we'll have the same discussion.
00:23:34.553 --> 00:23:36.033
And I'll say, we should have baselined it.
00:23:36.333 --> 00:23:39.613
They're a lot smarter and their literacy has gone up a lot.
00:23:39.733 --> 00:23:44.453
And I've even had customers like teams, IT teams in organizations in my customers
00:23:44.453 --> 00:23:48.973
come to me and go, how can I get up to speed fast? We already feel like we're behind.
00:23:49.133 --> 00:23:52.453
And I'm like, well, that's good. Everyone in the space feels like that at the moment.
00:23:52.813 --> 00:23:56.313
Everyone is behind at the moment. Everyone's still trying to work out what is
00:23:56.313 --> 00:23:59.333
an agent? What can I let it do? How does it work? How does it integrate?
00:23:59.593 --> 00:24:04.033
What's an MCP? like all these different new words that we weren't talking about
00:24:04.033 --> 00:24:08.353
12 months I think that's kind of where where we're going in that space so as
00:24:08.353 --> 00:24:12.553
long as we can help our customers do that I think that's key as well yeah all
00:24:12.553 --> 00:24:17.293
right Matt over to you what what do you think uh 12 months.
00:24:18.109 --> 00:24:22.509
The rise of the personal AI assistant. And what I mean by that is you talk to
00:24:22.509 --> 00:24:25.449
your AI and be like, hey, I'm going out with a group of my mates tonight.
00:24:25.649 --> 00:24:26.829
This is what we're thinking for dinner.
00:24:27.129 --> 00:24:30.249
Suggest some options, then ultimately go book the dinner and stuff like that.
00:24:30.389 --> 00:24:34.289
So we'll have more of these AI assistants that will be using some of these visual
00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:36.789
models to actually complete the task as well.
00:24:36.869 --> 00:24:39.029
I've been working really closely with some of these visual models.
00:24:39.029 --> 00:24:41.409
They're actually pretty good and pretty decent.
00:24:41.429 --> 00:24:46.709
But I think now that we kind of understand a bit more what AI can do for us
00:24:46.709 --> 00:24:51.249
from a day-to-day basis, that rise of that really powerful personal assistant
00:24:51.249 --> 00:24:53.669
from a day-to-day standpoint, not just in work context.
00:24:53.809 --> 00:24:56.929
Obviously, we co-pilot and stuff like that, all those types of things.
00:24:56.969 --> 00:25:01.589
But I think we'll start to leverage AI a bit more to actually complete some
00:25:01.589 --> 00:25:04.149
of these tasks for us from a personal assistant standpoint.
00:25:04.429 --> 00:25:06.589
But that's kind of my safe prediction.
00:25:07.549 --> 00:25:10.369
I'm building one for myself at the moment. That's kind of what I've been playing
00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:12.149
around with as well about how I can do that.
00:25:12.309 --> 00:25:15.029
But that would be my prediction that I just thought about at the start of
00:25:15.029 --> 00:25:18.249
the show because so i've got the perfect perfect
00:25:18.249 --> 00:25:21.549
like uh hi ai uh nathan
00:25:21.549 --> 00:25:24.369
brent scott matt we're all going out for stakes at
00:25:24.369 --> 00:25:27.429
praseca can you book it in and also we want to go to the ufc next
00:25:27.429 --> 00:25:30.489
month book the tickets like that sort of correct that that
00:25:30.489 --> 00:25:33.729
will start to become a bit more prevalent yeah yeah yeah couple of interesting
00:25:33.729 --> 00:25:37.849
things on that right because we know like our product is roadmap to have open
00:25:37.849 --> 00:25:43.089
ai advanced voice contact center in it so that's a game changer next year but
00:25:43.089 --> 00:25:47.849
if you think about it But for the scenario that you're talking about, Matt,
00:25:48.049 --> 00:25:53.109
if you operate an e-commerce site or operate a,
00:25:53.329 --> 00:25:56.149
you know, even just simple bookings, you're a hairdresser, you book people in,
00:25:56.309 --> 00:26:02.569
and you're not thinking about enabling some kind of agent for MCP or A to A
00:26:02.569 --> 00:26:08.569
kind of protocol to work, you're crazy because it just leaves the only option as being co-op, right?
00:26:08.569 --> 00:26:11.709
Some kind of screen grab, go click on here to go book something.
00:26:11.709 --> 00:26:19.729
But I think the future is this API to API chatbot to chatbot handshake of.
00:26:20.270 --> 00:26:23.150
Communication i just think it's going to take five years for
00:26:23.150 --> 00:26:26.310
that to come out into the world yeah i think there's a complexity with
00:26:26.310 --> 00:26:28.970
like letting the ai use my credit card like i
00:26:28.970 --> 00:26:32.350
think that's the thing that humans are going to be a bit you know cautious
00:26:32.350 --> 00:26:35.490
of like even the concept itself is convenient
00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:38.330
but the security implications and like
00:26:38.330 --> 00:26:41.230
even banks turning up you know now an mfa is
00:26:41.230 --> 00:26:44.170
like a requirement for nearly every bank now to log.
00:26:44.170 --> 00:26:47.490
In and use apps and devices with their products.
00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:50.390
Like i think that's kind of going to be a delicate
00:26:50.390 --> 00:26:53.550
balancing act as we move towards that kind of e-commerce
00:26:53.550 --> 00:26:56.530
purchasing framework you're letting ai do
00:26:56.530 --> 00:26:59.610
you know purchasing for us but i mean the similar concept exists
00:26:59.610 --> 00:27:02.630
for amazon like you can ask i can't
00:27:02.630 --> 00:27:06.690
say the word because it'll probably turn on but you can ask your um
00:27:06.690 --> 00:27:09.870
to you know go and order me pizza or
00:27:09.870 --> 00:27:12.550
order me you know more toilet paper it'll go and do it
00:27:12.550 --> 00:27:15.450
automatically but i think that that's still a
00:27:15.450 --> 00:27:18.170
deterministic process and you know that it's in that
00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:21.130
ecosystem i think the openness of book me
00:27:21.130 --> 00:27:24.090
a hairdresser appointment or buy ufc tickets on ticker
00:27:24.090 --> 00:27:27.150
tech or like there's a lot of you know flexibility in terms
00:27:27.150 --> 00:27:30.090
of that i think we'll move away from apis in
00:27:30.090 --> 00:27:33.070
general and just mcp to mcp everything will be an mcp
00:27:33.070 --> 00:27:36.150
server in the future and then just agents orchestrating interacting
00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:39.150
with one another so yeah not really a bold prediction because
00:27:39.150 --> 00:27:42.790
you start to see that with a lot of the announcements that we already announced over
00:27:42.790 --> 00:27:45.750
the last couple of weeks with you know copilot studio agents you
00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:48.610
can now turn into its own mcp server and power apps
00:27:48.610 --> 00:27:51.690
that you've built can you can now turn into an mcp server for example but
00:27:51.690 --> 00:27:55.010
every consumable service will effectively have
00:27:55.010 --> 00:27:58.430
an mcp that you can just call on and that's where the personal assistant
00:27:58.430 --> 00:28:02.790
can interact with i'd like to see it go to advanced voice though rather than
00:28:02.790 --> 00:28:10.210
chat if we can um i think it's maybe right like yeah like i think the compute's
00:28:10.210 --> 00:28:14.670
probably the issue there yeah yeah probably well again it comes down to power.
00:28:14.810 --> 00:28:16.190
Right? Like, he's the power, right?
00:28:17.245 --> 00:28:21.785
Yeah, what's your bold one, Matt? What have you got? We will see something that
00:28:21.785 --> 00:28:23.585
we haven't seen or spoken about.
00:28:24.465 --> 00:28:28.025
We're not doing that two years of the run, right? Why not?
00:28:29.405 --> 00:28:34.505
It's a good prediction. We'll see something soon. A stake in the ground for a stake.
00:28:35.025 --> 00:28:38.385
A stake in the – well, Brett went really safe, all right? Your predictions,
00:28:38.605 --> 00:28:39.785
come on. He had the eyes on the stake.
00:28:40.585 --> 00:28:44.305
He played it safe here. There will be something come out, whether it's an open
00:28:44.305 --> 00:28:47.165
AI device or all this kind of stuff, we'll just see these.
00:28:47.925 --> 00:28:52.185
Mic drop open next year we've had four months of kind of you know revolving
00:28:52.185 --> 00:28:55.945
all this kind of stuff we're going to see something just go bang next year getting
00:28:55.945 --> 00:28:57.665
a picture of some description,
00:28:58.605 --> 00:29:04.685
potentially yeah potentially I don't know what it is I think if we don't see
00:29:04.685 --> 00:29:06.185
something go bang next year we
00:29:06.185 --> 00:29:10.645
could very well end up in a bubble and the stock price is dropping on it.
00:29:10.665 --> 00:29:14.625
I agree with you on that one as well yeah yeah we just might have to build it ourselves.
00:29:15.661 --> 00:29:21.461
Yeah that's it or us right let's just go the power time wearable yeah that's all right so yeah,
00:29:22.141 --> 00:29:24.881
let me get power studio up and running first so
00:29:24.881 --> 00:29:27.541
then what that's actually a pretty good job by you on
00:29:27.541 --> 00:29:30.721
that one so yeah you did well nathan over to
00:29:30.721 --> 00:29:34.201
you what do you got all right so my safe prediction so yeah
00:29:34.201 --> 00:29:36.861
actually you heard about this concept from one of the guests that you've had on your
00:29:36.861 --> 00:29:41.801
podcast before david walker which is this concept around world models so um
00:29:41.801 --> 00:29:44.281
i hadn't heard of it until i heard him speak about it but i've done a bit of
00:29:44.281 --> 00:29:48.081
research in the background and for from a real layman's point of view effectively
00:29:48.081 --> 00:29:52.281
what it is it's not an llm but it's an ai that can build a rough simulation
00:29:52.281 --> 00:29:55.541
of the world it takes into account things like cause and effects.
00:29:56.221 --> 00:29:59.261
Basically like reasoning on steroids if you think about today's
00:29:59.261 --> 00:30:02.081
ai models and compare it to something like
00:30:02.081 --> 00:30:05.141
autocomplete it's a world models effectively can be
00:30:05.141 --> 00:30:08.141
used in conjunction with llms that make it effectively a
00:30:08.141 --> 00:30:11.281
chess player so i can think you know five ten steps
00:30:11.281 --> 00:30:14.301
ahead so i think that because that concept
00:30:14.301 --> 00:30:17.461
already exists i think you'll start to see agents with world
00:30:17.461 --> 00:30:20.261
model capability start to really enhance and become more
00:30:20.261 --> 00:30:23.021
humanistic next year or yeah next year
00:30:23.021 --> 00:30:26.221
so yeah when we talk about that level three of transformation
00:30:26.221 --> 00:30:29.061
where we're doing you know agents are doing the stuff in the in
00:30:29.061 --> 00:30:32.041
the background and us as humans are just kind of like the agent
00:30:32.041 --> 00:30:35.061
boss so to speak i think um yeah world models are
00:30:35.061 --> 00:30:37.901
really going to accelerate that so some might consider that
00:30:37.901 --> 00:30:41.161
to be out there some might say that that's safe but my out
00:30:41.161 --> 00:30:44.501
there one is that power platform will become
00:30:44.501 --> 00:30:48.681
the enterprise standard for enterprise development
00:30:48.681 --> 00:30:51.561
inside internal organizations so if you have a solution that
00:30:51.561 --> 00:30:54.461
you want to build power is the default you start
00:30:54.461 --> 00:30:57.621
to see the shift with you know by powerapps.com being
00:30:57.621 --> 00:31:00.401
able to generate full stack applications you can
00:31:00.401 --> 00:31:06.061
round trip it in ides developing a vs code if you want to whatever yeah bring
00:31:06.061 --> 00:31:09.821
code from other platforms as well and deploy it to power so you can get all
00:31:09.821 --> 00:31:13.241
the benefits of the governance and integration capabilities i just think it
00:31:13.241 --> 00:31:17.721
will become the standard in the future irrespective of if you're a business
00:31:17.721 --> 00:31:19.581
maker or a professional developer.
00:31:20.621 --> 00:31:24.401
Obviously, we're not there now. Everybody has a tool of choice,
00:31:24.441 --> 00:31:27.881
but I think that given how strong the governance is in this space,
00:31:28.001 --> 00:31:31.501
and that's probably one of the key concerns around deployment and time to value.
00:31:31.781 --> 00:31:33.781
So, yeah, that's kind of my bold prediction.
00:31:34.641 --> 00:31:38.821
It kind of has to move in that direction, doesn't it? Like otherwise… Well,
00:31:38.841 --> 00:31:41.461
there's a shift, wasn't there, about 6, 12 months ago. We were like,
00:31:41.541 --> 00:31:43.101
oh, where's Canvas apps going to go?
00:31:43.241 --> 00:31:45.961
We can kind of develop all this stuff in ProCode, but now they've just gone
00:31:45.961 --> 00:31:47.701
bang and dropped this stuff at the end of the year.
00:31:47.821 --> 00:31:50.621
You can kind of see that. But, yeah, they've got that stranglehold on it now
00:31:50.621 --> 00:31:52.241
as well, which is really good. So, yeah.
00:31:52.881 --> 00:31:56.081
Well, I mean, it's just UI design, right? Like how you design the app's going
00:31:56.081 --> 00:32:00.521
to change over the next 12 months. And it's an interesting play, Nathan.
00:32:00.561 --> 00:32:06.481
I think I definitely have said for a long time that PowerPlat should have ability
00:32:06.481 --> 00:32:10.741
to be able to, you know, have ProCode on the platform and even host it as a
00:32:10.741 --> 00:32:12.841
web app inside of Azure and all this kind of stuff.
00:32:13.021 --> 00:32:16.081
So I think they're missing a trick there.
00:32:16.301 --> 00:32:20.501
So, yeah, interesting. Probably plays into like what we see in customers a lot as well.
00:32:20.861 --> 00:32:23.521
And, you know, there's a lot of hype around agents at the moment.
00:32:23.741 --> 00:32:27.901
And I think all of our predictions are like personal assistants and moving away
00:32:27.901 --> 00:32:29.321
from even having an application.
00:32:29.381 --> 00:32:32.501
But at the end of the day, if you drill down on a lot of these scenarios,
00:32:32.541 --> 00:32:35.881
like Matt said, you know, 75% of them stuff that you probably could have done
00:32:35.881 --> 00:32:39.801
for the last five years, but, you know, you slap an agent in front of it and it makes it sexy.
00:32:40.552 --> 00:32:43.412
For organizations and budget there to go let's get more
00:32:43.412 --> 00:32:47.312
budget there yeah i think um
00:32:47.312 --> 00:32:50.052
if you actually have a look at these processes and think about what the
00:32:50.052 --> 00:32:52.812
user experience needs to be how they're actually going to manage it get into
00:32:52.812 --> 00:32:56.052
the day of the life of the actual end user it
00:32:56.052 --> 00:32:58.992
still absolutely is a place for applications and having
00:32:58.992 --> 00:33:02.132
that rich user experience it doesn't need to be the entire
00:33:02.132 --> 00:33:05.312
end-to-end process like i think that sort
00:33:05.312 --> 00:33:08.332
of plays into the mcp server for power apps being released
00:33:08.332 --> 00:33:11.332
which means that you can build an application and expose it at mcp
00:33:11.332 --> 00:33:14.452
server and consume that in a agentic experience
00:33:14.452 --> 00:33:17.192
or a chat experience as well you don't want to go to the full
00:33:17.192 --> 00:33:20.352
experience but in some cases if you're manipulating bulk
00:33:20.352 --> 00:33:23.112
amounts of data and you need to go and validate what the agent's doing
00:33:23.112 --> 00:33:26.252
is correct then you know sometimes my personal
00:33:26.252 --> 00:33:29.252
preference anyway is that you know sometimes an application is better for certain
00:33:29.252 --> 00:33:33.792
parts of that process so yeah i feel like there's absolutely a place for apps
00:33:33.792 --> 00:33:37.852
in the future until some of this stuff you know it needs to make a whole bunch
00:33:37.852 --> 00:33:40.972
more of advancements until we really get to that space where you just say a
00:33:40.972 --> 00:33:43.332
sentence and it understands everything and.
00:33:44.135 --> 00:33:47.595
Can solve everything. I think we're a fair way away from there,
00:33:47.635 --> 00:33:50.075
yeah. I think it's kind of what Bill Gates says, right?
00:33:50.235 --> 00:33:54.435
You know, when he was saying that we kind of over-restorate what we could do
00:33:54.435 --> 00:33:57.575
in two years and underestimate what we can get done in 10 years.
00:33:57.935 --> 00:34:01.215
I kind of see that with the platform, Nathan, right now.
00:34:01.775 --> 00:34:06.735
It's definitely a platform played with our customers for governance, AI, and capability.
00:34:07.535 --> 00:34:11.295
But I don't think our customers are really ready for full autonomous yet.
00:34:11.475 --> 00:34:16.355
And I think having the human in the loop, I really like these orchestrated apps where, you know,
00:34:16.475 --> 00:34:21.975
it's using intelligence from automation to surface, even a brand new kind of
00:34:21.975 --> 00:34:27.535
sub UI within the UI, just all through prompting. So I think we're getting a lot better.
00:34:27.895 --> 00:34:31.455
It's something I've definitely noticed with customers as well is they don't
00:34:31.455 --> 00:34:35.635
want that ambiguity of chat just being an open text field.
00:34:35.795 --> 00:34:39.195
They want the structure. I think I had a customer the other day literally say,
00:34:39.335 --> 00:34:41.835
I don't want my sellers to waffle. Yeah.
00:34:42.785 --> 00:34:45.545
A chat agent over voice because they will
00:34:45.545 --> 00:34:48.165
waffle or they will just keep talking and talking i want it
00:34:48.165 --> 00:34:50.905
to have more structure these are the
00:34:50.905 --> 00:34:54.365
fields that i need to put into the database so have
00:34:54.365 --> 00:34:57.245
a call response method to get them out of the person
00:34:57.245 --> 00:35:00.545
instead of letting them just dribble essentially so
00:35:00.545 --> 00:35:04.185
i think there's going to be more structure required around that and more you
00:35:04.185 --> 00:35:07.905
know human psychology elements coming into it around like what's the most efficient
00:35:07.905 --> 00:35:11.685
way to do it talking to AI for 20 minutes and getting three lines out of it
00:35:11.685 --> 00:35:15.745
is not as effective as having a two-minute conversation and getting 30 lines.
00:35:15.745 --> 00:35:20.285
Of content out of it to put into a database. Like, I think that's kind of going to be the flip.
00:35:20.785 --> 00:35:25.985
Well, we're kind of saying now that they think that, you know,
00:35:26.085 --> 00:35:30.705
we're going to have 50% less screen time on a CRM app in the next two to three years.
00:35:30.925 --> 00:35:34.485
And I think that's probably the evolution. It's like, I still use a sales app
00:35:34.485 --> 00:35:38.385
for CRM and customer service and things, but I've got an agent running around
00:35:38.385 --> 00:35:41.405
going, hey, Scott, you mentioned about this, do you want me to commit it to your database?
00:35:41.765 --> 00:35:44.325
Yeah. You know, hey, do you want me to update your comments on this?
00:35:44.465 --> 00:35:46.405
Or do you want me to go chase this lead for you?
00:35:46.465 --> 00:35:49.765
And I'll call the customer and ask a question, you know, and then I'll go back
00:35:49.765 --> 00:35:52.525
and update, you know, the database, which is the database for us.
00:35:52.645 --> 00:35:56.285
So I think that kind of interaction will reduce screen time.
00:35:56.525 --> 00:36:00.525
And also deep integration to Office as well will make a big impact there too.
00:36:00.805 --> 00:36:04.545
So, you know, it's a good thing, right? Like, you don't want your sellers stuck
00:36:04.545 --> 00:36:07.265
in, you don't want to talk to customers, you don't when I'm stuck in an admin
00:36:07.265 --> 00:36:10.285
screen, so. You know what, I'm probably an AI agent like.
00:36:11.745 --> 00:36:16.865
We make this, we kind of put this line in the sand about what is a pro code
00:36:16.865 --> 00:36:20.245
tool versus what is a low code tool and there's fit for certain audiences,
00:36:20.265 --> 00:36:24.565
but I don't know if you've ever sort of gone in and used like Microsoft Foundry.
00:36:25.186 --> 00:36:30.126
There's not too much stuff in what's technically classified as a ProCode tool
00:36:30.126 --> 00:36:31.306
that you actually need to code anymore.
00:36:31.886 --> 00:36:34.706
Everything's mostly click configurable. It's pretty easy to use.
00:36:34.886 --> 00:36:39.426
Yes, you do need to understand some data principles and some fundamental sort
00:36:39.426 --> 00:36:42.766
of development principles to understand what certain functions are.
00:36:42.946 --> 00:36:46.646
But there's not too many products out there at all now that you need to go and
00:36:46.646 --> 00:36:47.906
fully code everything anyway.
00:36:48.106 --> 00:36:52.226
I think it's just more of an education thing about enterprise scalability.
00:36:52.626 --> 00:36:56.006
And yeah, I think that you'll start to see that the lines
00:36:56.006 --> 00:36:58.646
blur a lot more about this hard line in
00:36:58.646 --> 00:37:01.766
the sand that this is for pro developers and this is for local developers
00:37:01.766 --> 00:37:05.626
and you must use this if you're this persona i think that that'll just become
00:37:05.626 --> 00:37:10.026
grayer and grayer as all these products do you not think nathan it just moves
00:37:10.026 --> 00:37:14.546
up the stack so now you know it's all about no code versus low code because
00:37:14.546 --> 00:37:19.026
pro code becomes low code effectively yeah yeah pretty much i think that's kind
00:37:19.026 --> 00:37:20.126
of the evolution of it yeah
00:37:20.526 --> 00:37:23.606
yeah it's a lovable base 44
00:37:23.606 --> 00:37:26.686
versus building right like yeah
00:37:26.686 --> 00:37:29.866
and if you can like i guess it's the extensibility part
00:37:29.866 --> 00:37:32.646
as well so there's you know strictly no code tools like app builder
00:37:32.646 --> 00:37:36.006
that released in m365 code pilot which is personal
00:37:36.006 --> 00:37:39.046
productivity but you know you can start building
00:37:39.046 --> 00:37:41.806
in say power and if you don't need to go and extend it and there
00:37:41.806 --> 00:37:44.526
are parts of that process that you do need to then go and
00:37:44.526 --> 00:37:47.506
actually you know do a code snippet for or whatever then you
00:37:47.506 --> 00:37:50.186
can absolutely go and do that but for the most part it's still going to be
00:37:50.186 --> 00:37:53.026
low code anyway i just feel like there's that sort
00:37:53.026 --> 00:37:55.826
of because we classified power platform as a low code tool
00:37:55.826 --> 00:37:58.666
for many years now i think that there's this sort of
00:37:58.666 --> 00:38:01.706
stigma around what it actually is and what it means but realistically a
00:38:01.706 --> 00:38:05.506
lot of the tools that even professional developers now use are low code yeah
00:38:05.506 --> 00:38:08.426
i think that's when you hear like the commentary from charles and so on and
00:38:08.426 --> 00:38:11.986
so forth that low code is dead i think it's probably pretty accurate in the
00:38:11.986 --> 00:38:16.346
sense that the the way that we think about it traditionally is that and we need
00:38:16.346 --> 00:38:18.986
to kind of rethink about what it actually means because pretty much everything's.
00:38:19.614 --> 00:38:23.074
Low code now. And for those listening in who don't know who Charles is,
00:38:23.174 --> 00:38:27.454
Charles is our president for engineering across our business solutions.
00:38:27.834 --> 00:38:30.814
So, but I'll just add that snippet in there, Nathan. Yeah.
00:38:31.954 --> 00:38:35.354
Should give some context, yeah. So, you know, look, I think they've got all
00:38:35.354 --> 00:38:40.534
valid points and you'd have to say that next year will be the rise of a lot more applications,
00:38:41.634 --> 00:38:47.554
if it's so easy to build apps now, then I think we'll see that rise of a lot
00:38:47.554 --> 00:38:49.214
more apps being built. side,
00:38:50.221 --> 00:38:50.781
Interesting.
00:38:53.021 --> 00:38:58.001
Have you done your big prediction or was that it? Yeah, no, Power Platformers,
00:38:58.061 --> 00:39:00.921
I think that's pretty bold to say that's the default for an enterprise.
00:39:02.941 --> 00:39:07.841
We'll lock that in for the sake, yeah? Very safe, guys, very safe.
00:39:09.221 --> 00:39:13.781
It looks like I'm buying dinner next year. So anyway, all good. And this year.
00:39:15.461 --> 00:39:19.861
My turn to have a crack at the steak dinner and a steak courtesy of Get Over.
00:39:26.961 --> 00:39:29.981
I think at the end of the day i think
00:39:29.981 --> 00:39:33.281
next year's all about china like i said it earlier i really
00:39:33.281 --> 00:39:36.161
think it is i think they're going to release a deep seek
00:39:36.161 --> 00:39:39.641
model which is going to be crazy because they're going to access you know i
00:39:39.641 --> 00:39:44.121
think they'll have their supply chain around gpu sorted i think they'll be they've
00:39:44.121 --> 00:39:47.801
definitely got access to power and i you know i think that we're going to see
00:39:47.801 --> 00:39:53.621
a lot more come from China into kind of Western countries,
00:39:53.841 --> 00:39:55.841
might even see us adopting those kind of models.
00:39:56.101 --> 00:40:00.101
It'd be interesting to see if OpenAI can kind of chase it down.
00:40:00.661 --> 00:40:04.041
You know, you would say, if you look at the prediction,
00:40:04.481 --> 00:40:09.381
I guess, or the predictions that we've had, you know, last year I said that
00:40:09.381 --> 00:40:13.381
Elon Musk would overtake with his Colossus kind of data center,
00:40:13.661 --> 00:40:15.721
OpenAI by March. I think he did it in July.
00:40:16.321 --> 00:40:20.621
It's really interesting, right? Because OpenAI had a two-year head start on
00:40:20.621 --> 00:40:26.901
the market, and then you got Gemini last year and Elon catching Sam and overtaking
00:40:26.901 --> 00:40:28.661
within about six months.
00:40:29.161 --> 00:40:32.741
So I definitely think we'll see something big out of Elon as well.
00:40:32.901 --> 00:40:36.301
I think he's probably sitting on the next kind of iteration.
00:40:36.721 --> 00:40:42.141
But also, having a look at where Google is right now, I dare say,
00:40:43.209 --> 00:40:47.709
You know, maybe that's a bold statement is maybe Gemini will run on Azure.
00:40:47.929 --> 00:40:50.889
Maybe we're going to see Google. That's a bold statement.
00:40:53.169 --> 00:40:57.289
That's the out there one. That'd be very, very interesting to see that happen.
00:40:57.469 --> 00:41:01.029
But, you know, you think about it. Like, I mean, if you're the clear market
00:41:01.029 --> 00:41:04.109
leader in AI, you can do a lot of things, right?
00:41:04.249 --> 00:41:09.049
So I think, you know, that's going to be really interesting more next year to see what goes on.
00:41:09.409 --> 00:41:12.589
For my big and bold prediction, though, it's got to be robotics,
00:41:12.829 --> 00:41:16.809
right? Like, I don't know if you all saw the K-pop dancing from the robots on
00:41:16.809 --> 00:41:19.369
stage last week over in China.
00:41:19.609 --> 00:41:25.169
One of their bands had all these droids, like, dancing as dancers.
00:41:25.429 --> 00:41:28.849
It just looked amazing, right? Like, and I just think we're,
00:41:28.969 --> 00:41:33.889
I think you add another couple of versions. We get to GPT-6 next year and 7
00:41:33.889 --> 00:41:38.409
even, you know, we're going to see, like, amazing capabilities out of robots.
00:41:38.809 --> 00:41:43.569
And I think that's coming. The droid wars are coming, and I think we've got
00:41:43.569 --> 00:41:46.609
to get ready for it because they're going to be able to roll into our homes
00:41:46.609 --> 00:41:50.389
and do some amazing things, particularly in health care and all this kind of stuff.
00:41:50.489 --> 00:41:52.829
I think NVIDIA is doing a fair bit in that space as well.
00:41:53.169 --> 00:41:59.029
Jensen's last big press event was like, oh, here's the H100 Blackwells,
00:41:59.049 --> 00:42:02.189
and then also here's what we're doing in robotics and factory automation and
00:42:02.189 --> 00:42:05.069
all this other cool stuff that we use to pre-train and simulate.
00:42:05.729 --> 00:42:10.669
And to Nathan's point, those world models of them being able to compute and train.
00:42:11.809 --> 00:42:14.709
Robots without building the robot itself it's
00:42:14.709 --> 00:42:17.509
all just code and software and machine learning in
00:42:17.509 --> 00:42:21.249
the background to like learn how to walk for example like it's
00:42:21.249 --> 00:42:24.129
pretty was interesting yeah well the world map
00:42:24.129 --> 00:42:27.089
stuff that nathan was talking about i was listening to sorcery another podcast
00:42:27.089 --> 00:42:32.849
the other day and bay that interviewed a couple of ai you know lecturers that
00:42:32.849 --> 00:42:36.989
have just released a new model kind of app that they're just taking to model
00:42:36.989 --> 00:42:42.289
now uh to out to the world now a world model And that looks really, really interesting.
00:42:42.429 --> 00:42:44.509
It's a simulated world over and over and over again.
00:42:44.689 --> 00:42:47.389
I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but I'll put it in the show notes.
00:42:47.889 --> 00:42:51.829
But, yeah, that space, it's not something that I've ever been involved in,
00:42:51.849 --> 00:42:55.849
but this ability to be able to simulate an entire world and train a robot or
00:42:55.849 --> 00:42:59.509
train AI, I think next year is really going to take off, Nathan.
00:42:59.649 --> 00:43:00.989
I think it's a really solid prediction.
00:43:01.209 --> 00:43:05.229
But we'll see a lot more of that. Do you reckon reality will come back?
00:43:06.269 --> 00:43:09.209
Well, I don't think meta. Is meta coming back? I don't know.
00:43:10.889 --> 00:43:13.669
That would be super interesting if that
00:43:13.669 --> 00:43:16.429
did so i don't i'm not quite sure like
00:43:16.429 --> 00:43:19.849
if i talk to five people three people get sick using vr
00:43:19.849 --> 00:43:25.449
and two people don't so have you ever seen the movie changing is it sliding
00:43:25.449 --> 00:43:28.689
doors or changing doors or on the one of paltrow where she wishes as a sliding
00:43:28.689 --> 00:43:33.289
doors sliding sliding doors imagine if a world model you could use like an automated
00:43:33.289 --> 00:43:37.629
reality sort of experience that if i'd done this particular path or i went to
00:43:37.629 --> 00:43:39.049
this job interview or I've done this,
00:43:39.149 --> 00:43:41.909
this is what my life's going to be like. I don't know if that's possible.
00:43:44.249 --> 00:43:47.409
Interesting. Playing on the psychology of humans and, you know,
00:43:47.489 --> 00:43:51.089
there'll be a lot of issues after that, like, which you're not playing.
00:43:52.329 --> 00:43:56.829
Maybe those folk in San Fran are accurate. Like, maybe we are in the world model right now.
00:43:57.629 --> 00:44:01.129
This is the world model. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. Here we go.
00:44:01.989 --> 00:44:03.629
Here we go. We got him here. It's too late.
00:44:04.749 --> 00:44:09.249
So you're saying robotics will be out by next year in households or something like that.
00:44:09.509 --> 00:44:12.769
What's your figure out there? I'm saying I think it'll still be for the wealthy,
00:44:12.769 --> 00:44:15.549
but I think we'll see some really useful.
00:44:18.642 --> 00:44:23.122
I think it'll take a while. Remember that, like, kitchen that could cook for you, like, as a robot?
00:44:23.302 --> 00:44:26.062
Does anyone remember that? It was, like, four years ago this company tried to
00:44:26.062 --> 00:44:30.162
release this, like, 400 grand, like, kitchen that cooks for you.
00:44:32.082 --> 00:44:35.842
There's, like, four startups now that have under 20 grand kind of robots.
00:44:36.562 --> 00:44:39.602
Obviously, there's that fake one that, you know, there's remote control in the
00:44:39.602 --> 00:44:41.822
robot. The guy that's in it.
00:44:42.702 --> 00:44:47.142
I think what I think is the hardware is really sorted now. Like,
00:44:47.162 --> 00:44:51.762
if you look at what China's producing, like, they've got arms and legs and things
00:44:51.762 --> 00:44:55.742
like this that they just produce that can lift a huge amount of kilos now.
00:44:56.222 --> 00:44:59.282
And there was just, there was a release of a new droid a couple of weeks ago
00:44:59.282 --> 00:45:02.942
doing martial arts, and they had to turn it down because it was kicking too hard.
00:45:03.102 --> 00:45:06.202
And the CEO was complaining when it kicked him, right? So, you know,
00:45:06.202 --> 00:45:08.522
I think we've got quite of the scale. Let me add him.
00:45:09.222 --> 00:45:11.942
Yeah so now if you think robots should now
00:45:11.942 --> 00:45:14.982
scale with scaling lots so they should you
00:45:14.982 --> 00:45:17.702
know go go five to ten x or five to six x
00:45:17.702 --> 00:45:20.642
each year in advancements because it's
00:45:20.642 --> 00:45:24.122
really the software that's a limiting factor so with these world models are
00:45:24.122 --> 00:45:28.202
getting dropped right now to nathan's point training them and with the ability
00:45:28.202 --> 00:45:32.942
to be able to scale out very large data centers we could very well see you know
00:45:32.942 --> 00:45:37.142
something some really intelligent kind of robots robots could be the best use
00:45:37.142 --> 00:45:40.082
for AI that exists today, right? Probably, yeah.
00:45:40.982 --> 00:45:44.642
Back to the point, this is kind of another prediction. I kind of mentioned it earlier, but.
00:45:45.883 --> 00:45:50.223
Like a bit of a fatigue around AI. I don't think so much for business because
00:45:50.223 --> 00:45:52.863
I think there's plenty of benefit from a business perspective that,
00:45:52.863 --> 00:45:54.023
you know, AI is going to transform.
00:45:54.283 --> 00:45:57.563
But from a personal perspective, like you look at social media these days,
00:45:57.683 --> 00:45:59.423
nobody knows what's real and what's fake anymore.
00:46:00.523 --> 00:46:03.583
I just got to a point at the end of the day, I'm just like, I need to switch
00:46:03.583 --> 00:46:05.323
off from technology and get away from it.
00:46:05.423 --> 00:46:09.003
I don't want a robot to cook me dinner because personally I find it relaxing
00:46:09.003 --> 00:46:11.283
to do it at the end of the day and it kind of winds down.
00:46:11.883 --> 00:46:15.263
So there's all these things that, you know, I like to just go out in the boat
00:46:15.263 --> 00:46:20.303
and not have my phone on me and go back to their basics.
00:46:20.563 --> 00:46:24.603
So I kind of feel like as a society, we might get a little bit more fatigued,
00:46:24.723 --> 00:46:29.363
particularly from a personal point of view or a consumer point of view and just
00:46:29.363 --> 00:46:30.903
go back to some more basic stuff.
00:46:31.103 --> 00:46:35.483
Like I want to go away one weekend and just go to an island where I have no
00:46:35.483 --> 00:46:38.783
reception and no power and just live like a caveman type thing.
00:46:39.903 --> 00:46:43.043
That's like that type. But I think, yeah, just as a society,
00:46:43.043 --> 00:46:46.263
we might have a little bit of fatigue when it comes to AI.
00:46:46.463 --> 00:46:48.903
But from a business perspective, I think it's probably the opposite.
00:46:49.523 --> 00:46:54.763
Yeah. Isn't that what Star Wars has been telling us all these years,
00:46:54.863 --> 00:46:56.763
that robots are just there to do all those reminiscences?
00:46:57.663 --> 00:47:01.383
You've got to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's up to do? Yeah.
00:47:03.363 --> 00:47:06.403
Probably should watch it first and then I'll let you know. Yeah.
00:47:07.123 --> 00:47:10.723
For those, there's a bombshell, right? Here's a prediction. and Nathan Backers
00:47:10.723 --> 00:47:13.843
will watch Star Wars next year because he's never seen it. So...
00:47:15.503 --> 00:47:18.223
It shouldn't be in tech if you haven't watched Star Wars. Yeah,
00:47:18.623 --> 00:47:19.863
yeah. A lot of references I'm going to get.
00:47:20.483 --> 00:47:25.003
Yeah, yeah. Well, I just think, you know, those droids on that show are there to kind of help.
00:47:25.143 --> 00:47:28.963
It's like if you watch Star Trek as well, you'll see the AI is there as an assistant
00:47:28.963 --> 00:47:33.263
to control stuff that we don't have the intelligence to do, you know,
00:47:33.363 --> 00:47:35.123
like warp speed, all this kind of stuff.
00:47:35.283 --> 00:47:39.343
So, you know, I think that's... I think we're moving forward into that, but...
00:47:40.068 --> 00:47:44.648
But not at the rate we'd like. It's back to Bill Gates' philosophy around in
00:47:44.648 --> 00:47:47.488
10 years. We probably will, but not in the next two to three.
00:47:47.828 --> 00:47:49.948
So, yeah, interesting stuff.
00:47:50.308 --> 00:47:53.428
All right, gentlemen. Well, that's been a fantastic conversation.
00:47:54.488 --> 00:48:00.308
Any last-minute predictions before we call it and enter today and go and have
00:48:00.308 --> 00:48:02.208
a break for the year and come back next year?
00:48:02.428 --> 00:48:04.848
We've got a great guest lineup for next year. We'll probably,
00:48:04.868 --> 00:48:09.648
like I said, air this in January anyway, but any last-minute thoughts?
00:48:09.648 --> 00:48:12.608
I predict me and Brent might have a few beers this afternoon.
00:48:13.288 --> 00:48:16.808
We're at a Newcastle Christmas party, Newcastle Microsoft Christmas party.
00:48:18.068 --> 00:48:22.068
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I predict that you guys will be hungover the next day.
00:48:23.568 --> 00:48:26.648
It can't be too hard at all. My family Christmas is tomorrow,
00:48:26.848 --> 00:48:28.848
so I've got to behave tonight.
00:48:29.748 --> 00:48:32.988
Yeah, you can't get hungover if you don't get sober.
00:48:34.048 --> 00:48:38.848
What are you getting to Christmas, Brent? Oh, I'm getting a new keyboard for
00:48:38.848 --> 00:48:41.448
my Mac. So that's kind of my big one.
00:48:41.688 --> 00:48:43.868
We've kind of tried to keep it pretty low-key this year.
00:48:45.523 --> 00:48:49.723
Nathan? I asked for a battery-powered whippersnapper because I've just kept
00:48:49.723 --> 00:48:51.623
getting the shits with the petrol-powered one.
00:48:52.283 --> 00:48:55.323
It will save your life. Yeah, electrical, right?
00:48:55.883 --> 00:48:58.683
I'm going to tell you, when I bought my DeWalt Electrics whippersnapper,
00:48:58.863 --> 00:49:01.463
it was the best thing in life. I got a DeWalt one, that's what I got.
00:49:02.423 --> 00:49:05.503
Just go do it. So good. Yeah, that's what I asked Katie for.
00:49:05.623 --> 00:49:10.703
So I think hopefully she got me the DeWalt one so we can compare notes about what's good about it.
00:49:11.103 --> 00:49:16.063
Yeah, awesome whippersnapper. And I've got two guys to take a petrol one. Matt? What about you?
00:49:17.563 --> 00:49:20.623
I'm getting a Ninja Creamy. I don't know if you've seen those on Instagram.
00:49:20.623 --> 00:49:24.603
You can build your own protein ice cream like that. Oh, that's sweet too.
00:49:25.743 --> 00:49:28.563
I'm about to sort the rig out next year. I'm doing a bit more training.
00:49:28.743 --> 00:49:32.503
So I'm going to start making Ninja Creamy ice cream, healthier protein ice cream.
00:49:32.643 --> 00:49:33.583
Protein ice cream, yeah.
00:49:34.263 --> 00:49:37.903
Similar to Nathan, I enjoy that stuff. I enjoy making my own steaks.
00:49:38.003 --> 00:49:42.423
I enjoy making my own food, all this kind of stuff. We have to have ice cream after our steaks, Matt.
00:49:43.183 --> 00:49:47.023
Just have some protein. I'm back to Carthel de la Roseberry, mate.
00:49:47.563 --> 00:49:51.203
That's an interesting one. I want to stay healthy, so I bought an ice cream machine.
00:49:52.103 --> 00:49:55.203
I was looking at the macros. They look pretty good. So I was like, here we go.
00:49:55.983 --> 00:49:59.183
It'll stop my Messina addiction. Messina is literally across the road,
00:49:59.243 --> 00:50:03.903
which is way too close for Messina to be to anyone. Yeah, that's me. What about you, Scott?
00:50:04.523 --> 00:50:09.063
Yeah, so I put an order in for – I wanted a new leather bag for work.
00:50:09.223 --> 00:50:11.843
It's just something – backpacks get a bit bulky to day-to-day,
00:50:11.943 --> 00:50:15.143
but I ended up with a new car. So I don't know how that ended up.
00:50:16.843 --> 00:50:22.263
That's a pretty big, you know, simple prediction to a bold prediction, man.
00:50:23.783 --> 00:50:29.643
What'd you get? I got an Audi RS3, so it's really nice. Oh, nice. Yeah, really nice.
00:50:30.183 --> 00:50:33.923
Take me for a spin, mate. Very quick. Very quick. Any car that has a drift button
00:50:33.923 --> 00:50:35.643
on it, to me, it's a great car.
00:50:36.683 --> 00:50:42.263
Nice. You have to take it to the track, Scott. Ah, yes, yes. On the car. On the car.
00:50:42.483 --> 00:50:46.163
So, cool. Alright, gents, have a fantastic.