00:00:00
Speaker 1: I actually had co-founded Tinder and wanted nothing to do with dating apps, but this is life.
00:00:07
Speaker 2: In this moment where.
00:00:08
Speaker 1: AI is quite literally automating everything, I firmly believe the one thing that will be left is relationships and connection with each other.
00:00:17
Speaker 3: What was the turning point for you? Actually get people using Bumble? Was there a specific campaign that you guys ran?
00:00:23
Speaker 2: It was just.
00:00:28
Speaker 4: Hey guys, we have an interesting episode on tap for you today with the Bumble founder, Whitney Wolf Hurd. This was actually a walking interview that was just too good not to share as a podcast as well on here. And a quick disclaimer, guys, I have a little bit of a raspy voice today because I was at the Chicago Marathon this past weekend, cheering on my family and friends, and I was screaming into a megaphone.
00:00:47
Speaker 5: You guys know how it goes. But for those of you who might be.
00:00:49
Speaker 4: New here, I host a running interview show where I go outside with some of the most interesting people in the world and interview them while we're running or walking together. And something you might not realize is that while the videos you see on Instagram are typically around three minutes long, our actual conversations are much longer. We're usually out there for 30 minutes to an hour covering everything from people's careers and biggest accomplishments to the experiences and decisions that shaped who they are. So we end up having these incredible conversations and it's A, always so hard to figure out what to cut, but B, so sad not to share more of it with you. So I thought, why not start bringing some of those longer conversations over here to the podcast? There's so many interesting stories, insights, and moments that don't always get to make it into those three-minute videos, and I just want you guys to be able to hear them. So we're going to start doing that every once in a while over here, and I hope you guys enjoy it. Which brings me to today's guest, Whitney Wolf-Herd. So Whitney is the founder of Bumble, and she's one of the most recognizable female entrepreneurs in tech. She launched Bumble at just 25 years old. She took the company public in 2021 and has spent the last decade helping reshape the way people connect and date. And Whitney has actually been making headlines again this week. Just yesterday, Bumble announced that it had agreed to be acquired by Ithaca Holdings in a $ 1. 3 billion deal that would take the company private five years after its public market debut. It's a major new chapter for Bumble and for Whitney, who returned as a CEO in 2025 and is expected to remain involved with the business as it moves forward under new leadership. So I think what makes her story so fascinating is that she's experienced so many different stages of entrepreneurship, from building a company at 25 years old to taking it public, evolving as a leader, and now helping shape what comes next. Now, of course, we've recorded this conversation before that news broke, but I think it makes hearing her perspective on building a business and navigating change even more interesting. During our walk, we got into her journey as an entrepreneur, what it takes to build and lead a company, the lessons she learned along the way, and her perspective on the future of dating. I really enjoyed this conversation and I'm excited that you guys get to hear more of it. So without further ado, here is my walk and talk with Whitney Wolford.
00:02:58
Speaker 1: Hey, what's up guys? I'm Whitney Wolford. I am the founder and CEO of Bumble. I am coming in from Texas and we are in glorious central park for a nice walk because not much of a runner.
00:03:19
Speaker 5: But you and I are currently walking in central park.
00:03:21
Speaker 1: I literally crave this walk. I think this is one of the most glorious walks on planet earth. You've got, You know, kids over here on skateboards and then you've got people sitting on park benches writing novels.
00:03:32
Speaker 2: It's just such a special place.
00:03:34
Speaker 3: I'm really excited to get to know your story because I feel like I haven't really heard it before.
00:03:37
Speaker 5: Who were you before Bumble and how did this all come to be?
00:03:40
Speaker 1: So the funny thing is, is like I never woke up dreaming of being a dating app founder as.
00:03:46
Speaker 2: A child, obviously. But I did always.
00:03:49
Speaker 1: Love to connect to people. And I never knew how that would manifest into the world. But my true passion and just who I am as a person since I was little was just fostering and cultivating relationships and then bringing great people.
00:04:05
Speaker 2: That I had met together.
00:04:07
Speaker 1: So for example, you know, most of my friends that I spend time with, these are people that have like all met through each other. And so I love this notion of people connecting with other great people and forming community. This is so important to me. And so I think that's just like been my essence. And what's so phenomenal about technology is you can take the things that are just innately special to you or these things that you embody as a person and kind of dream up ways for it to come into a product form or a business form. And so kind of that part of me, I think, has been just kind of the through line of my career. It's just so innately what I care about. And so that's kind of like who I am as a person. I just love the idea of community connection. I don't think there's anything better than the relationships we have in our life. And so for me to now be leading a relationship platform where you can find love, you can find obviously romantic connections, but also we foster so much more than just that because we have BFF where you can come together around any shared joy, any common interests, and also a lot of pain points. We have over 10,000 monthly active groups on BFF and they're growing and some of these groups are phenomenal. So the groups range from You know, people going through shared struggles. So maybe someone, you know, has a new diagnosis of something very confusing and makes them feel isolated and lonely. They're finding community with other people going through that on BFF or new moms that are trying to integrate into their community as their life changes dramatically. We are seeing people navigate being new to a city, like these young women that moved to New York, for example, and know nobody. Now they're forming huge community through this. So I feel like who I was before all of this is quite literally now just manifested into these products. And so I think that's pretty fun and cool to be able to live your purpose and passion and have that be your work as well.
00:06:24
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's interesting. And I talk about this with a lot of founders.
00:06:26
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot that shows up as like who we are as children that then manifests itself into what we do today and the companies that we build. And it's cool knowing that the purpose of Bumble was kind of always there with you as you were growing up. You've always loved connecting people. And it's cool to see what that's now turned into with your business. And maybe you never knew that you would build a company like Bumble, but I love knowing that you're living your purpose.
00:06:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that is what we... we're meant to do. We are meant to do what we love. And there's these sayings that we've all heard since we were young, which is like, do what you love and find what you love. And people struggle with that. They don't really understand what that means. They don't know how to identify that. And so the way I would look at it and what I believe I've done in my career is I actually say, find what.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: Breaks your heart.
00:07:12
Speaker 1: Find what feels missing in the world or unfair in the world or something that you just don't understand why it has to be that way, where you wish something could be improved or better. And if you actually think about some of the greatest innovations, frankly, all of them, it stems from a place of wanting to improve something. And so when you look at Bumble, yes, that undercurrent of connection is absolutely there. And that's the through line. That's the foundation. But when you look at how I started Bumble, I started Bumble with this idea of really building a platform and a brand and a company that put women first and improved how women were treated in relationships, how they felt about themselves in relationships. Because in my mind, everything was kind of about, you know, women having equal this or equal that, but no one ever talked about us feeling or being equal in our relationships. It was still very much a topic. Yeah, it was so one-sided. And when I was starting Bumble, I really wanted to find a way to formalize this pain point of women not feeling like an equal in their relationship into a product that could scale across the globe. And that was why, you know, I took that founding wish and vision and mission of trying to improve things for women and the way it manifested originally in the product, our first iteration of this was women making the first move and always sending the first message. And we've now evolved beyond that because the ethos, the spirit, the philosophy and like the mindset is so much bigger than one feature. And so now we've started kind of finding ways to build that beyond just that one founding principle.
00:08:59
Speaker 2: Or product feature.
00:09:00
Speaker 1: I really do believe that like the greatest entrepreneurs which could be literally any of you watching right now maybe you haven't even seen yourself as a potential entrepreneur they're just essentially passionate problem solvers at the core that's really what.
00:09:16
Speaker 5: It's about.
00:09:26
Speaker 3: Also The cool thing about what you've built is you are fostering in real life relationships.
00:09:31
Speaker 5: I'm a big fan of IRL.
00:09:33
Speaker 3: Everything that I do is in person meeting people. So I'm curious, what is your view.
00:09:37
Speaker 5: On in real life versus online?
00:09:40
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
00:09:41
Speaker 1: I am all about being together in the real world, looking each other in the eyes because we belong together. We're better together and technology has isolated us.
00:09:52
Speaker 2: It has pulled us apart.
00:09:53
Speaker 1: And I think people get confused about what Bumble is trying to do in the world because they're like, yeah, but you run an app. and you guys use AI.
00:10:01
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
00:10:02
Speaker 1: It is all in service of getting you off your phone as quickly as possible into real community, into real life with friends, with dates. with people, people to laugh with, people to walk with, people to cry with, people to potentially marry and have children with, which has happened to millions of people because of our brand.
00:10:23
Speaker 2: And I just, everything's about the real world.
00:10:26
Speaker 1: And I think in this moment where AI is quite literally automating everything, I firmly believe the one thing that will be left is relationships and connection with each other. And so I feel proud that we get to be in service of that.
00:10:40
Speaker 3: First came out with your first iteration of Bumble. I remember thinking, oh my God, this app is so intimidating. Because obviously I'm somebody that's like, oh, well, I would never want to be the one to reach out first. Like I want the man to be interested in me first, right? If I'm in a heterosexual relationship. So I'm curious, did you have people come up to you and say anything along the lines of like, well, this is breaking the rules?
00:11:00
Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
00:11:01
Speaker 1: I was told I was breaking the rules by everybody. And that was the point because... It is absolutely okay to want someone to make the first move. That is your choice. That is absolutely an amazing choice. If that's how you feel, I don't disagree with it. I don't contest it. I was never trying to take away this like, well, I want to be courted or I want to feel like they're making effort. What I was trying to do was solve the pain point of then.
00:11:32
Speaker 2: And the pain point.
00:11:33
Speaker 1: That I realized existed at that time in 2014 was women were frankly getting inundated by people they didn't want to be inundated by. So I completely agree with you. Like if you're interested in someone or potentially interested, them expressing interest first is awesome.
00:11:50
Speaker 5: That's fine.
00:11:51
Speaker 2: But what's not okay is.
00:11:53
Speaker 1: A woman feeling inundated with unwanted attention and unwanted behavior. And in 2014, women were just getting bombarded every day on the internet from apps, social media, and also just in the streets, frankly. And it was just causing women so much discomfort, harm.
00:12:17
Speaker 2: And so I said, you know what?
00:12:19
Speaker 3: Why?
00:12:20
Speaker 2: Why can't a woman be in control?
00:12:22
Speaker 1: Why can't a woman have barriers to access, like who can access her? And then frankly, on the flip side of that, what you just said, absolutely respect it and don't disagree with it. There's a contrary approach there that I struggled with, which was if I did think someone was cute, like why am I not allowed to just walk over and say hi without feeling bad about myself? Like, why has society created shame around that, right? And so I really just wanted to normalize a woman not feeling like she had to wait to be chosen. Like she should choose who she's interested in and not feel like, It's just one-sided.
00:13:02
Speaker 3: I know when you first came up with the idea for Bumble, you were kind of like pondering around this idea of like, what is a female empowering thing that I can build?
00:13:10
Speaker 5: When did you decide that, okay, it's going.
00:13:12
Speaker 2: To be in the form of a dating app?
00:13:13
Speaker 1: I actually had co-founded Tinder and wanted nothing to do with dating apps. When I left Tinder, I was like, that is the end of that. I will never work in any field that involves dating, but this is life. You think you know what's going to happen and you have no idea what comes next. I originally just wanted to build female first technology and products that would solve pain points for women. And originally that kind of founding principle was going to come to life in a woman to woman social networking app where they could find friendships and connect and have like an open, safe space. And which is funny now BFF is a big product. And so I love that this original vision did in fact come to fruition. And it's, you know, it's definitely part of that like original essence of Bumble, but it was actually my former business partner and original investor and, and kind of early, um, you know, kind of partner that we launched this, you know, together in 2014. He had a dating app in Europe at the time that was very, very, very popular around the world, just not super well known in the States. And he basically was like, absolutely, we need to do this, but it must be in dating. And I was like, you're crazy, lose my number. And he was persistent that it should be in dating. And then when I really went back and reflected on it, it's like, I think the guy has a point.
00:14:40
Speaker 2: Like maybe there is white space.
00:14:42
Speaker 1: In dating and he wasn't as interested in like the female first stuff. He was just kind of like, I want to run another day. I just want another dating app. He was so enamored with our growth at Tinder that he was like, just do that again.
00:14:52
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:14:53
Speaker 5: The white space concept.
00:14:54
Speaker 3: That you just said, like it has my wheels turning because it gives you chills thinking about how you come from a co-founding an app like Tinder, which is huge, right?
00:15:03
Speaker 5: It's one of the biggest dating apps.
00:15:05
Speaker 3: And then you find that white space and create Bumble, which has now become... so massive, synonymous in a lot of ways with Tinder. What was it like for you when you were like, oh my God, we found the white space and we're about to break into a market that I know like the back of my hand?
00:15:22
Speaker 1: I look back on the last decade plus and think how lucky I was to be somewhat young and naive because when you look at it in hindsight, it's so big. It's so daunting. It feels so impossible. Like the fact that I just went for it And went after this founding principle of improve women's lives with technology and fix this big problem in society where women just don't feel safe in dating. They don't feel seen and connecting like they struggle. And the fact that I actually went and did it, I'm like, oh.
00:16:01
Speaker 2: That was kind of badass. Like, I can't believe I did it.
00:16:03
Speaker 1: Because it is a daunting like big thing. And the fact that, you know, we started with zero downloads. We started with nothing. We started with just an idea and a lot of passion and a lot of fear, which I think everyone should know is like fear is not absent for entrepreneurs. Being a great entrepreneur is just like, Waking up every day and being scared out of your mind, but doing it anyway. So, you know, it's fascinating. Now I look back on it and I was like, has anyone ever gone skiing? Or like you conquer some crazy hike and you look down and you're like, whoa.
00:16:37
Speaker 2: Or you look up and you're like, that was steep.
00:16:40
Speaker 5: That was brave.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: That was scary.
00:16:41
Speaker 1: Like that's kind of how this journey feels and it's not over yet. So it's kind of, it's all.
00:16:45
Speaker 2: Part of it.
00:16:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to have, and we talk about this a lot with athletes, you hear it a lot with Olympians, professional athletes.
00:16:51
Speaker 5: We were talking about Lindsey Vonn before, I'm sure she would believe this too.
00:16:54
Speaker 3: But you have to have a lot of delusional optimism to become the best or to make the best product and, or to succeed as an entrepreneur, right?
00:17:03
Speaker 1: The odds are stacked against you. So you have to be slightly delusional for it to even become possible because the world will tell you it's impossible. The world doesn't understand things that haven't been done yet, right?
00:17:14
Speaker 2: That's the reality.
00:17:15
Speaker 1: Vision requires being able to see things that others cannot see. And if you were navigating a road and only you could see it, but everyone in the back of the car was screaming, saying you're going the wrong way, it's very disorienting. There's a part of you that wants to listen to the naysayers and say, maybe I... Maybe I am going the wrong way, but it requires you to tap into that internal GPS and say, I know I'm going the right way.
00:17:41
Speaker 2: I know it.
00:17:42
Speaker 1: I feel it. And I'm going to just keep driving no matter what anybody says. Like that is ultimately what is required to change anything in the world, to break through, to be the best at anything. People have to trust their instinct and their vision and they just can't get distracted.
00:18:08
Speaker 3: What I think is the most impressive with software companies that require signups and users is it's really hard to get your first user, your first 100 user, first 1,000 users.
00:18:16
Speaker 5: My husband has a software company.
00:18:18
Speaker 3: We talk about every day how many people are using the app on a monthly basis, right? What was the turning point for you to actually get people using Bumble? Was there a specific campaign that you guys ran? What was the big moment for you?
00:18:29
Speaker 2: It was just grinding away every day. You know what? It's funny.
00:18:33
Speaker 1: I think it's not dissimilar from any.
00:18:36
Speaker 2: Other type of.
00:18:38
Speaker 1: perceived success. Like you could talk to athletes and it's not like one day they woke up with big biceps.
00:18:44
Speaker 2: It's the day-to-day grind. It's the consistency.
00:18:47
Speaker 1: It's just trying a little bit harder every hour of every day and just being so, so, so committed to the cause. It compounds and it's the compounding effect that ultimately brings success. It's never just this like one day win where it's like, you know, you rolled the dice and you got lucky and like, Life was easy. Let's order a pina colada. Like that is not how it went. It's just a compounding effort. And so sure, there were certain activities or moments or stars aligning, whatever you want to call it, where we had big days and we had big upticks, but it's about the persistent, like what comes next? And I would say like, that's how we have sustained our, you know, our base and we continue to grow and we have an international brand and, you know, we've had... There were five, five and a half billion first moves made by women the last time I checked. And so, you know, this is just a compounding effort of a lot of blood, sweat and tears and a lot of committed, hardworking people.
00:19:48
Speaker 3: Is there any specific public relationship that was formed through Bumble that gave you guys a little bit of an uptick that you can think of?
00:19:54
Speaker 1: There have been a few like public relationships that really have helped us over the years. Like I remember we ended up on SNL one day, like early on. We got like name dropped on SNL. And I was like, we made it. Like we were on SNL and like, You can't buy your way into SNL. You can't write your way into SNL. There's nothing you can do. Like they want to talk about you. They talk about you. And for me, that just felt like this moment of like cultural resonance. And then we did this really, really profound special Super Bowl commercial with the greatest of all time, Serena Williams. And it was iconic. And it was all about like making your move and getting out there. And what was crazy about it was when we first started the company, I'll never forget it. We had like just a few employees and I grabbed some tennis balls and put Bumble stickers on them in an effort to try to get downloads at some tennis court.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: Because yes, you got to hustle at all times. There's the hat.
00:20:53
Speaker 1: I'm still wearing it around. You're never too big to promote your stuff. You got to hustle till the end. So basically early on with these tennis balls, I was like, you know, girls, ladies, team members, whatever. whoever it was around me, like one day, if we work hard enough and we try hard enough, we're going to get Serena Williams to do a Super Bowl ad for us. And it's all going to be about, you know, making your move and getting out there. Fast forward years later. Lo and behold, we did work really hard. And that dream did come true. And we were able to get Serena Williams to do a really cool Super Bowl ad for us.
00:21:27
Speaker 5: Guys, visualization.
00:21:29
Speaker 2: It's a big deal.
00:21:29
Speaker 5: It's a big deal.
00:21:30
Speaker 2: And it works. And I mean.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: Speak it.
00:21:32
Speaker 2: Speak it into existence.
00:21:33
Speaker 5: I'm a huge tennis fan. I'm obsessed with the Williams sisters. I love Serena.
00:21:37
Speaker 2: I love Venus.
00:21:38
Speaker 1: And one of my besties is Lindsey Vonn, which is like maybe my biggest flex on earth.
00:21:42
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I know Lindsey Vonn. So love you, Linz. Shout out to you. We need to get you on the show.
00:21:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need to get you on the show.
00:21:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, and whether it's in a relationship or just your social life, make the first move and get somebody else out in public in real life with you.
00:21:59
Speaker 2: That's right. Making moves in the real world.
00:22:01
Speaker 3: In order to put in those hours and the blood, sweat, and tears and not knowing if you're going to make it because nothing's guaranteed when you're an entrepreneur. Is there a specific thing for you that you've always held on to that's.
00:22:11
Speaker 2: Kept you going? Yeah, definitely.
00:22:13
Speaker 1: I had a bad relationship when I was really young with a romantic.
00:22:17
Speaker 2: Like with a boyfriend.
00:22:19
Speaker 1: It was my first real relationship and it was really hard. And I thought it was going to literally break me. I thought it was going to break my spirit. And I just found myself in this pattern of toxic relationships when I was younger. And then I started noticing all the women around me, maybe they weren't directly dealing with it, but maybe their mothers were or their sisters, someone they loved. And the chip on my shoulder was, why is this happening? Like, I want to fix this. I want to make relationships better. Connection should feel great. Also, when I was young in school, you know, I did feel like there was this like mean girl culture as a little girl. And so I always love this idea of like friendship and community and like people just having each other's backs and being sweet to each other.
00:23:09
Speaker 2: And I just crave goodness.
00:23:10
Speaker 1: Like I just want relationships to be good and kind and uplifting. And so, you know, my chip is like not so much of like a chip where I'm like, I want to show someone or I don't have any like vengeful feelings. I don't, I have no like revenge envy or any of that stuff in me.
00:23:28
Speaker 5: You've got a mission.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: I've got a mission. I just want to.
00:23:31
Speaker 1: Make things better so that the 17 year old version of of myself is like the end. Like I don't want anybody else to ever go through that.
00:23:40
Speaker 2: And you've got daughters now. I have a daughter now.
00:23:43
Speaker 3: So nothing better to want to build stuff that empowers women. Like there's no better motivator than having a daughter yourself that's going to live through, you know, different experiences.
00:23:52
Speaker 5: On the topic of motherhood.
00:23:53
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:23:53
Speaker 3: So Whitney, you're a mom of three. I just had a daughter three months ago. So I'm a new mom.
00:23:57
Speaker 2: So happy for you.
00:23:58
Speaker 3: A new mom and a new working mom. So I'm curious, like, what is your advice to working moms out there? How do we juggle it all? Because you're doing a lot.
00:24:06
Speaker 1: You know, we just do the best we can with what we got all day, every day. No, truly, you're a superhero. I mean, it's so hard to wear all the hats and be everything to everyone. I think the answer is day by day. Give yourself grace. you're not doing anything outside of what you're meant to be doing. Like if you need a pause from work or if you're working too much and you feel guilty, but like no mom guilt, like no mom guilt. I think that was something I really, really, really struggled with and still do sometimes. But I think giving yourself grace and just saying, you know what, I'm doing a good job. I'm trying my best and my children are loved. My business is getting enough of me. Like I think just telling yourself and reminding yourself like you are enough and you're giving it your all because us moms, like we want to just be the best at being a mom and we don't want to drop any balls in the.
00:25:01
Speaker 2: Other areas of our life. But the reality is.
00:25:04
Speaker 1: Like we are all doing great. Like moms are rock stars. Let's just be honest. And the fact that this one is running three months postpartum.
00:25:14
Speaker 5: Final question. What is a quote or motto that you live by? Be here now.
00:25:19
Speaker 2: Just be in the moment.
00:25:20
Speaker 1: I spend so much time planning for the future, making sure things go well in the future for my children, for my family, for my business, for our employees, for everyone and the world and our mission. Like I am so focused on making sure the future goes well. And then sometimes I find myself like drifting into the past and saying like, Oh, I shouldn't have done it this way. Or maybe I should have done it that way. And so I just have to remind myself, like be here now. And it is like, if someone forced me to tattoo something on my wrist, like a mantra on my wrist, it would be be here now, which is just be in this present moment.
00:25:55
Speaker 2: And enjoy it.
00:25:56
Speaker 1: Because so many of us, if you're anything like me, like life is, life is planning, life is reflecting, but like life is happening right this second. And so I just, the way I do that is like, I like to just get in touch with all of the senses.
00:26:09
Speaker 2: Like, what does it smell like outside? What am I hearing? What am I feeling? Is it cold?
00:26:13
Speaker 1: Is it hot? Like who's around me and taking stock in like this moment in Central Park? Like We're right here right now, and that's kind of what it's all about.
00:26:20
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for walking with me.
Speaker 1: I actually had co-founded Tinder and wanted nothing to do with dating apps, but this is life.
00:00:07
Speaker 2: In this moment where.
00:00:08
Speaker 1: AI is quite literally automating everything, I firmly believe the one thing that will be left is relationships and connection with each other.
00:00:17
Speaker 3: What was the turning point for you? Actually get people using Bumble? Was there a specific campaign that you guys ran?
00:00:23
Speaker 2: It was just.
00:00:28
Speaker 4: Hey guys, we have an interesting episode on tap for you today with the Bumble founder, Whitney Wolf Hurd. This was actually a walking interview that was just too good not to share as a podcast as well on here. And a quick disclaimer, guys, I have a little bit of a raspy voice today because I was at the Chicago Marathon this past weekend, cheering on my family and friends, and I was screaming into a megaphone.
00:00:47
Speaker 5: You guys know how it goes. But for those of you who might be.
00:00:49
Speaker 4: New here, I host a running interview show where I go outside with some of the most interesting people in the world and interview them while we're running or walking together. And something you might not realize is that while the videos you see on Instagram are typically around three minutes long, our actual conversations are much longer. We're usually out there for 30 minutes to an hour covering everything from people's careers and biggest accomplishments to the experiences and decisions that shaped who they are. So we end up having these incredible conversations and it's A, always so hard to figure out what to cut, but B, so sad not to share more of it with you. So I thought, why not start bringing some of those longer conversations over here to the podcast? There's so many interesting stories, insights, and moments that don't always get to make it into those three-minute videos, and I just want you guys to be able to hear them. So we're going to start doing that every once in a while over here, and I hope you guys enjoy it. Which brings me to today's guest, Whitney Wolf-Herd. So Whitney is the founder of Bumble, and she's one of the most recognizable female entrepreneurs in tech. She launched Bumble at just 25 years old. She took the company public in 2021 and has spent the last decade helping reshape the way people connect and date. And Whitney has actually been making headlines again this week. Just yesterday, Bumble announced that it had agreed to be acquired by Ithaca Holdings in a $ 1. 3 billion deal that would take the company private five years after its public market debut. It's a major new chapter for Bumble and for Whitney, who returned as a CEO in 2025 and is expected to remain involved with the business as it moves forward under new leadership. So I think what makes her story so fascinating is that she's experienced so many different stages of entrepreneurship, from building a company at 25 years old to taking it public, evolving as a leader, and now helping shape what comes next. Now, of course, we've recorded this conversation before that news broke, but I think it makes hearing her perspective on building a business and navigating change even more interesting. During our walk, we got into her journey as an entrepreneur, what it takes to build and lead a company, the lessons she learned along the way, and her perspective on the future of dating. I really enjoyed this conversation and I'm excited that you guys get to hear more of it. So without further ado, here is my walk and talk with Whitney Wolford.
00:02:58
Speaker 1: Hey, what's up guys? I'm Whitney Wolford. I am the founder and CEO of Bumble. I am coming in from Texas and we are in glorious central park for a nice walk because not much of a runner.
00:03:19
Speaker 5: But you and I are currently walking in central park.
00:03:21
Speaker 1: I literally crave this walk. I think this is one of the most glorious walks on planet earth. You've got, You know, kids over here on skateboards and then you've got people sitting on park benches writing novels.
00:03:32
Speaker 2: It's just such a special place.
00:03:34
Speaker 3: I'm really excited to get to know your story because I feel like I haven't really heard it before.
00:03:37
Speaker 5: Who were you before Bumble and how did this all come to be?
00:03:40
Speaker 1: So the funny thing is, is like I never woke up dreaming of being a dating app founder as.
00:03:46
Speaker 2: A child, obviously. But I did always.
00:03:49
Speaker 1: Love to connect to people. And I never knew how that would manifest into the world. But my true passion and just who I am as a person since I was little was just fostering and cultivating relationships and then bringing great people.
00:04:05
Speaker 2: That I had met together.
00:04:07
Speaker 1: So for example, you know, most of my friends that I spend time with, these are people that have like all met through each other. And so I love this notion of people connecting with other great people and forming community. This is so important to me. And so I think that's just like been my essence. And what's so phenomenal about technology is you can take the things that are just innately special to you or these things that you embody as a person and kind of dream up ways for it to come into a product form or a business form. And so kind of that part of me, I think, has been just kind of the through line of my career. It's just so innately what I care about. And so that's kind of like who I am as a person. I just love the idea of community connection. I don't think there's anything better than the relationships we have in our life. And so for me to now be leading a relationship platform where you can find love, you can find obviously romantic connections, but also we foster so much more than just that because we have BFF where you can come together around any shared joy, any common interests, and also a lot of pain points. We have over 10,000 monthly active groups on BFF and they're growing and some of these groups are phenomenal. So the groups range from You know, people going through shared struggles. So maybe someone, you know, has a new diagnosis of something very confusing and makes them feel isolated and lonely. They're finding community with other people going through that on BFF or new moms that are trying to integrate into their community as their life changes dramatically. We are seeing people navigate being new to a city, like these young women that moved to New York, for example, and know nobody. Now they're forming huge community through this. So I feel like who I was before all of this is quite literally now just manifested into these products. And so I think that's pretty fun and cool to be able to live your purpose and passion and have that be your work as well.
00:06:24
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's interesting. And I talk about this with a lot of founders.
00:06:26
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot that shows up as like who we are as children that then manifests itself into what we do today and the companies that we build. And it's cool knowing that the purpose of Bumble was kind of always there with you as you were growing up. You've always loved connecting people. And it's cool to see what that's now turned into with your business. And maybe you never knew that you would build a company like Bumble, but I love knowing that you're living your purpose.
00:06:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that is what we... we're meant to do. We are meant to do what we love. And there's these sayings that we've all heard since we were young, which is like, do what you love and find what you love. And people struggle with that. They don't really understand what that means. They don't know how to identify that. And so the way I would look at it and what I believe I've done in my career is I actually say, find what.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: Breaks your heart.
00:07:12
Speaker 1: Find what feels missing in the world or unfair in the world or something that you just don't understand why it has to be that way, where you wish something could be improved or better. And if you actually think about some of the greatest innovations, frankly, all of them, it stems from a place of wanting to improve something. And so when you look at Bumble, yes, that undercurrent of connection is absolutely there. And that's the through line. That's the foundation. But when you look at how I started Bumble, I started Bumble with this idea of really building a platform and a brand and a company that put women first and improved how women were treated in relationships, how they felt about themselves in relationships. Because in my mind, everything was kind of about, you know, women having equal this or equal that, but no one ever talked about us feeling or being equal in our relationships. It was still very much a topic. Yeah, it was so one-sided. And when I was starting Bumble, I really wanted to find a way to formalize this pain point of women not feeling like an equal in their relationship into a product that could scale across the globe. And that was why, you know, I took that founding wish and vision and mission of trying to improve things for women and the way it manifested originally in the product, our first iteration of this was women making the first move and always sending the first message. And we've now evolved beyond that because the ethos, the spirit, the philosophy and like the mindset is so much bigger than one feature. And so now we've started kind of finding ways to build that beyond just that one founding principle.
00:08:59
Speaker 2: Or product feature.
00:09:00
Speaker 1: I really do believe that like the greatest entrepreneurs which could be literally any of you watching right now maybe you haven't even seen yourself as a potential entrepreneur they're just essentially passionate problem solvers at the core that's really what.
00:09:16
Speaker 5: It's about.
00:09:26
Speaker 3: Also The cool thing about what you've built is you are fostering in real life relationships.
00:09:31
Speaker 5: I'm a big fan of IRL.
00:09:33
Speaker 3: Everything that I do is in person meeting people. So I'm curious, what is your view.
00:09:37
Speaker 5: On in real life versus online?
00:09:40
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
00:09:41
Speaker 1: I am all about being together in the real world, looking each other in the eyes because we belong together. We're better together and technology has isolated us.
00:09:52
Speaker 2: It has pulled us apart.
00:09:53
Speaker 1: And I think people get confused about what Bumble is trying to do in the world because they're like, yeah, but you run an app. and you guys use AI.
00:10:01
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
00:10:02
Speaker 1: It is all in service of getting you off your phone as quickly as possible into real community, into real life with friends, with dates. with people, people to laugh with, people to walk with, people to cry with, people to potentially marry and have children with, which has happened to millions of people because of our brand.
00:10:23
Speaker 2: And I just, everything's about the real world.
00:10:26
Speaker 1: And I think in this moment where AI is quite literally automating everything, I firmly believe the one thing that will be left is relationships and connection with each other. And so I feel proud that we get to be in service of that.
00:10:40
Speaker 3: First came out with your first iteration of Bumble. I remember thinking, oh my God, this app is so intimidating. Because obviously I'm somebody that's like, oh, well, I would never want to be the one to reach out first. Like I want the man to be interested in me first, right? If I'm in a heterosexual relationship. So I'm curious, did you have people come up to you and say anything along the lines of like, well, this is breaking the rules?
00:11:00
Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
00:11:01
Speaker 1: I was told I was breaking the rules by everybody. And that was the point because... It is absolutely okay to want someone to make the first move. That is your choice. That is absolutely an amazing choice. If that's how you feel, I don't disagree with it. I don't contest it. I was never trying to take away this like, well, I want to be courted or I want to feel like they're making effort. What I was trying to do was solve the pain point of then.
00:11:32
Speaker 2: And the pain point.
00:11:33
Speaker 1: That I realized existed at that time in 2014 was women were frankly getting inundated by people they didn't want to be inundated by. So I completely agree with you. Like if you're interested in someone or potentially interested, them expressing interest first is awesome.
00:11:50
Speaker 5: That's fine.
00:11:51
Speaker 2: But what's not okay is.
00:11:53
Speaker 1: A woman feeling inundated with unwanted attention and unwanted behavior. And in 2014, women were just getting bombarded every day on the internet from apps, social media, and also just in the streets, frankly. And it was just causing women so much discomfort, harm.
00:12:17
Speaker 2: And so I said, you know what?
00:12:19
Speaker 3: Why?
00:12:20
Speaker 2: Why can't a woman be in control?
00:12:22
Speaker 1: Why can't a woman have barriers to access, like who can access her? And then frankly, on the flip side of that, what you just said, absolutely respect it and don't disagree with it. There's a contrary approach there that I struggled with, which was if I did think someone was cute, like why am I not allowed to just walk over and say hi without feeling bad about myself? Like, why has society created shame around that, right? And so I really just wanted to normalize a woman not feeling like she had to wait to be chosen. Like she should choose who she's interested in and not feel like, It's just one-sided.
00:13:02
Speaker 3: I know when you first came up with the idea for Bumble, you were kind of like pondering around this idea of like, what is a female empowering thing that I can build?
00:13:10
Speaker 5: When did you decide that, okay, it's going.
00:13:12
Speaker 2: To be in the form of a dating app?
00:13:13
Speaker 1: I actually had co-founded Tinder and wanted nothing to do with dating apps. When I left Tinder, I was like, that is the end of that. I will never work in any field that involves dating, but this is life. You think you know what's going to happen and you have no idea what comes next. I originally just wanted to build female first technology and products that would solve pain points for women. And originally that kind of founding principle was going to come to life in a woman to woman social networking app where they could find friendships and connect and have like an open, safe space. And which is funny now BFF is a big product. And so I love that this original vision did in fact come to fruition. And it's, you know, it's definitely part of that like original essence of Bumble, but it was actually my former business partner and original investor and, and kind of early, um, you know, kind of partner that we launched this, you know, together in 2014. He had a dating app in Europe at the time that was very, very, very popular around the world, just not super well known in the States. And he basically was like, absolutely, we need to do this, but it must be in dating. And I was like, you're crazy, lose my number. And he was persistent that it should be in dating. And then when I really went back and reflected on it, it's like, I think the guy has a point.
00:14:40
Speaker 2: Like maybe there is white space.
00:14:42
Speaker 1: In dating and he wasn't as interested in like the female first stuff. He was just kind of like, I want to run another day. I just want another dating app. He was so enamored with our growth at Tinder that he was like, just do that again.
00:14:52
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:14:53
Speaker 5: The white space concept.
00:14:54
Speaker 3: That you just said, like it has my wheels turning because it gives you chills thinking about how you come from a co-founding an app like Tinder, which is huge, right?
00:15:03
Speaker 5: It's one of the biggest dating apps.
00:15:05
Speaker 3: And then you find that white space and create Bumble, which has now become... so massive, synonymous in a lot of ways with Tinder. What was it like for you when you were like, oh my God, we found the white space and we're about to break into a market that I know like the back of my hand?
00:15:22
Speaker 1: I look back on the last decade plus and think how lucky I was to be somewhat young and naive because when you look at it in hindsight, it's so big. It's so daunting. It feels so impossible. Like the fact that I just went for it And went after this founding principle of improve women's lives with technology and fix this big problem in society where women just don't feel safe in dating. They don't feel seen and connecting like they struggle. And the fact that I actually went and did it, I'm like, oh.
00:16:01
Speaker 2: That was kind of badass. Like, I can't believe I did it.
00:16:03
Speaker 1: Because it is a daunting like big thing. And the fact that, you know, we started with zero downloads. We started with nothing. We started with just an idea and a lot of passion and a lot of fear, which I think everyone should know is like fear is not absent for entrepreneurs. Being a great entrepreneur is just like, Waking up every day and being scared out of your mind, but doing it anyway. So, you know, it's fascinating. Now I look back on it and I was like, has anyone ever gone skiing? Or like you conquer some crazy hike and you look down and you're like, whoa.
00:16:37
Speaker 2: Or you look up and you're like, that was steep.
00:16:40
Speaker 5: That was brave.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: That was scary.
00:16:41
Speaker 1: Like that's kind of how this journey feels and it's not over yet. So it's kind of, it's all.
00:16:45
Speaker 2: Part of it.
00:16:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to have, and we talk about this a lot with athletes, you hear it a lot with Olympians, professional athletes.
00:16:51
Speaker 5: We were talking about Lindsey Vonn before, I'm sure she would believe this too.
00:16:54
Speaker 3: But you have to have a lot of delusional optimism to become the best or to make the best product and, or to succeed as an entrepreneur, right?
00:17:03
Speaker 1: The odds are stacked against you. So you have to be slightly delusional for it to even become possible because the world will tell you it's impossible. The world doesn't understand things that haven't been done yet, right?
00:17:14
Speaker 2: That's the reality.
00:17:15
Speaker 1: Vision requires being able to see things that others cannot see. And if you were navigating a road and only you could see it, but everyone in the back of the car was screaming, saying you're going the wrong way, it's very disorienting. There's a part of you that wants to listen to the naysayers and say, maybe I... Maybe I am going the wrong way, but it requires you to tap into that internal GPS and say, I know I'm going the right way.
00:17:41
Speaker 2: I know it.
00:17:42
Speaker 1: I feel it. And I'm going to just keep driving no matter what anybody says. Like that is ultimately what is required to change anything in the world, to break through, to be the best at anything. People have to trust their instinct and their vision and they just can't get distracted.
00:18:08
Speaker 3: What I think is the most impressive with software companies that require signups and users is it's really hard to get your first user, your first 100 user, first 1,000 users.
00:18:16
Speaker 5: My husband has a software company.
00:18:18
Speaker 3: We talk about every day how many people are using the app on a monthly basis, right? What was the turning point for you to actually get people using Bumble? Was there a specific campaign that you guys ran? What was the big moment for you?
00:18:29
Speaker 2: It was just grinding away every day. You know what? It's funny.
00:18:33
Speaker 1: I think it's not dissimilar from any.
00:18:36
Speaker 2: Other type of.
00:18:38
Speaker 1: perceived success. Like you could talk to athletes and it's not like one day they woke up with big biceps.
00:18:44
Speaker 2: It's the day-to-day grind. It's the consistency.
00:18:47
Speaker 1: It's just trying a little bit harder every hour of every day and just being so, so, so committed to the cause. It compounds and it's the compounding effect that ultimately brings success. It's never just this like one day win where it's like, you know, you rolled the dice and you got lucky and like, Life was easy. Let's order a pina colada. Like that is not how it went. It's just a compounding effort. And so sure, there were certain activities or moments or stars aligning, whatever you want to call it, where we had big days and we had big upticks, but it's about the persistent, like what comes next? And I would say like, that's how we have sustained our, you know, our base and we continue to grow and we have an international brand and, you know, we've had... There were five, five and a half billion first moves made by women the last time I checked. And so, you know, this is just a compounding effort of a lot of blood, sweat and tears and a lot of committed, hardworking people.
00:19:48
Speaker 3: Is there any specific public relationship that was formed through Bumble that gave you guys a little bit of an uptick that you can think of?
00:19:54
Speaker 1: There have been a few like public relationships that really have helped us over the years. Like I remember we ended up on SNL one day, like early on. We got like name dropped on SNL. And I was like, we made it. Like we were on SNL and like, You can't buy your way into SNL. You can't write your way into SNL. There's nothing you can do. Like they want to talk about you. They talk about you. And for me, that just felt like this moment of like cultural resonance. And then we did this really, really profound special Super Bowl commercial with the greatest of all time, Serena Williams. And it was iconic. And it was all about like making your move and getting out there. And what was crazy about it was when we first started the company, I'll never forget it. We had like just a few employees and I grabbed some tennis balls and put Bumble stickers on them in an effort to try to get downloads at some tennis court.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: Because yes, you got to hustle at all times. There's the hat.
00:20:53
Speaker 1: I'm still wearing it around. You're never too big to promote your stuff. You got to hustle till the end. So basically early on with these tennis balls, I was like, you know, girls, ladies, team members, whatever. whoever it was around me, like one day, if we work hard enough and we try hard enough, we're going to get Serena Williams to do a Super Bowl ad for us. And it's all going to be about, you know, making your move and getting out there. Fast forward years later. Lo and behold, we did work really hard. And that dream did come true. And we were able to get Serena Williams to do a really cool Super Bowl ad for us.
00:21:27
Speaker 5: Guys, visualization.
00:21:29
Speaker 2: It's a big deal.
00:21:29
Speaker 5: It's a big deal.
00:21:30
Speaker 2: And it works. And I mean.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: Speak it.
00:21:32
Speaker 2: Speak it into existence.
00:21:33
Speaker 5: I'm a huge tennis fan. I'm obsessed with the Williams sisters. I love Serena.
00:21:37
Speaker 2: I love Venus.
00:21:38
Speaker 1: And one of my besties is Lindsey Vonn, which is like maybe my biggest flex on earth.
00:21:42
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I know Lindsey Vonn. So love you, Linz. Shout out to you. We need to get you on the show.
00:21:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need to get you on the show.
00:21:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, and whether it's in a relationship or just your social life, make the first move and get somebody else out in public in real life with you.
00:21:59
Speaker 2: That's right. Making moves in the real world.
00:22:01
Speaker 3: In order to put in those hours and the blood, sweat, and tears and not knowing if you're going to make it because nothing's guaranteed when you're an entrepreneur. Is there a specific thing for you that you've always held on to that's.
00:22:11
Speaker 2: Kept you going? Yeah, definitely.
00:22:13
Speaker 1: I had a bad relationship when I was really young with a romantic.
00:22:17
Speaker 2: Like with a boyfriend.
00:22:19
Speaker 1: It was my first real relationship and it was really hard. And I thought it was going to literally break me. I thought it was going to break my spirit. And I just found myself in this pattern of toxic relationships when I was younger. And then I started noticing all the women around me, maybe they weren't directly dealing with it, but maybe their mothers were or their sisters, someone they loved. And the chip on my shoulder was, why is this happening? Like, I want to fix this. I want to make relationships better. Connection should feel great. Also, when I was young in school, you know, I did feel like there was this like mean girl culture as a little girl. And so I always love this idea of like friendship and community and like people just having each other's backs and being sweet to each other.
00:23:09
Speaker 2: And I just crave goodness.
00:23:10
Speaker 1: Like I just want relationships to be good and kind and uplifting. And so, you know, my chip is like not so much of like a chip where I'm like, I want to show someone or I don't have any like vengeful feelings. I don't, I have no like revenge envy or any of that stuff in me.
00:23:28
Speaker 5: You've got a mission.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: I've got a mission. I just want to.
00:23:31
Speaker 1: Make things better so that the 17 year old version of of myself is like the end. Like I don't want anybody else to ever go through that.
00:23:40
Speaker 2: And you've got daughters now. I have a daughter now.
00:23:43
Speaker 3: So nothing better to want to build stuff that empowers women. Like there's no better motivator than having a daughter yourself that's going to live through, you know, different experiences.
00:23:52
Speaker 5: On the topic of motherhood.
00:23:53
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:23:53
Speaker 3: So Whitney, you're a mom of three. I just had a daughter three months ago. So I'm a new mom.
00:23:57
Speaker 2: So happy for you.
00:23:58
Speaker 3: A new mom and a new working mom. So I'm curious, like, what is your advice to working moms out there? How do we juggle it all? Because you're doing a lot.
00:24:06
Speaker 1: You know, we just do the best we can with what we got all day, every day. No, truly, you're a superhero. I mean, it's so hard to wear all the hats and be everything to everyone. I think the answer is day by day. Give yourself grace. you're not doing anything outside of what you're meant to be doing. Like if you need a pause from work or if you're working too much and you feel guilty, but like no mom guilt, like no mom guilt. I think that was something I really, really, really struggled with and still do sometimes. But I think giving yourself grace and just saying, you know what, I'm doing a good job. I'm trying my best and my children are loved. My business is getting enough of me. Like I think just telling yourself and reminding yourself like you are enough and you're giving it your all because us moms, like we want to just be the best at being a mom and we don't want to drop any balls in the.
00:25:01
Speaker 2: Other areas of our life. But the reality is.
00:25:04
Speaker 1: Like we are all doing great. Like moms are rock stars. Let's just be honest. And the fact that this one is running three months postpartum.
00:25:14
Speaker 5: Final question. What is a quote or motto that you live by? Be here now.
00:25:19
Speaker 2: Just be in the moment.
00:25:20
Speaker 1: I spend so much time planning for the future, making sure things go well in the future for my children, for my family, for my business, for our employees, for everyone and the world and our mission. Like I am so focused on making sure the future goes well. And then sometimes I find myself like drifting into the past and saying like, Oh, I shouldn't have done it this way. Or maybe I should have done it that way. And so I just have to remind myself, like be here now. And it is like, if someone forced me to tattoo something on my wrist, like a mantra on my wrist, it would be be here now, which is just be in this present moment.
00:25:55
Speaker 2: And enjoy it.
00:25:56
Speaker 1: Because so many of us, if you're anything like me, like life is, life is planning, life is reflecting, but like life is happening right this second. And so I just, the way I do that is like, I like to just get in touch with all of the senses.
00:26:09
Speaker 2: Like, what does it smell like outside? What am I hearing? What am I feeling? Is it cold?
00:26:13
Speaker 1: Is it hot? Like who's around me and taking stock in like this moment in Central Park? Like We're right here right now, and that's kind of what it's all about.
00:26:20
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for walking with me.
