“Kamala!”

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Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
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I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
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And I'm Alyssa Mastromonaco.
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Woo!
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She's back!
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Here's the question. Let's just get this out of the
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way before we get to the housekeeping. Is this an
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episode of Pod Save America on which Alyssa is a
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guest host, or is this an episode of That's the Ticket?
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I'm just a guest on That's the Ticket right now.
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Okay, good. I wanted to establish that early on, just
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for the power dynamics.
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My favorite Pod Save America miniseries since Tommy's Iowa series.
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Smart, smart, smart.
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So... There's been two of them on today's pod. I
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talked to our friend Latasha Brown of Black Voters Matter
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about the history Kamala Harris has made as the Democratic
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Party's vice presidential nominee. Before that, Alyssa, Dan and I
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will talk about Joe Biden's decision to put Kamala on
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the ticket, the rollout over the last few days and
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how Trump has responded. But first, we've got a few
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quick housekeeping notes. Check out this week's pod. Save the
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world where Tommy and Ben talk about Kamala's foreign policy views.
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foreign election interference, and the massive explosion in Lebanon with
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Washington Post Beirut Bureau Chief Liz Sly. Also, if you
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haven't checked out Ben Rhodes' new pod, Missing America, highly
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suggest you take a listen. It's rocketing up the iTunes charts.
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I think it was number five in news and politics yesterday.
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The first episode is out now and it was all
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about Trumpism. So listen and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
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and wherever you listen to pods. It's fantastic. Take a listen. Finally,
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The Democratic National Convention is next week, and we at
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Crooked Media have some big plans. We're not going to Milwaukee.
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That's not one of the plans. We will be streaming
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the convention live every night on crooked.com slash convention. We're
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going to bring back our group threads like we used
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to have during the debates to cover the speeches at
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the convention. We'll have three episodes of Pod Save America
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next week, Monday, Thursday, and a bonus on Friday. And
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the big one, we'll be doing a live one-hour Pod
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Save America pre-show to kick off the final night of
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the convention on Thursday, starting at 5 p.m., 8 p.m.
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Eastern.
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Tune in at cricket.com slash convention. It's going to be fun.
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That was a good reminder that I should A, check
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my schedule and B, read my emails because I got
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a lot of news in that.
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Okay, yeah. That's great. We're going to need you next week.
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Also, do I get honorary inclusion in the group thread
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this time?
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Fuck yes, you do.
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Thank you very much. I've learned how to use things, okay?
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I got tutored on Slack.
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My view on the group thread is more the merrier because,
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you know, it's just boring listening to us four fuckers
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just go on about these speeches.
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I completely agree.
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I'm just kidding. No.
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No, I just want to be included. I'm so lonely
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up here.
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I'm so excited. Great. No, you're on. You're in. All right.
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Let's get to the news. I got my two That's
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the Ticket co-hosts with me to talk about Joe Biden's
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selection of California Senator Kamala Harris, the first woman of color,
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black woman and Asian-American woman to run on a major
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party ticket. She's also the first graduate of a historically
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black college and university and the first Democrat from California.
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to run on a major party ticket. Biden announced the
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pick via text on Tuesday, and the two running mates
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held a joint event in Wilmington, Delaware on Wednesday. Let's
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listen to a clip from their remarks.
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As a child of immigrants, she knows personally how immigrant
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families enrich our country, as well as the challenges of
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what it means to grow up black and Indian American
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in the United States of America. Her story is America's story.
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Different from mine and many particulars, but also not so
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different in the essentials. She's worked hard. She's never backed
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down from a challenge. And she has earned each and
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every of the accolades and achievements that she has gained,
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many of them often in the face of obstacles that
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others put in her way, but never quit. And this morning,
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all across the nation, little girls woke up, especially little
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black and brown girls who so often feel overlooked and
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undervalued in their communities. But today, today, just maybe they're
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seeing themselves for the first time in a new way
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as the stuff of president and vice presidents.
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And, you know, my mother and father, they came from
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opposite sides of the world to arrive in America, one
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from India and the other from Jamaica. in search of
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a world-class education. But what brought them together was the
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civil rights movement of the 1960s. And that's how they met,
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as students in the streets of Oakland, marching and shouting
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for this thing called justice in a struggle that continues today.
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And I was part of it. My parents would bring
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me to protests, strapped tightly in my stroller. And my mother, Shamala,
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raised my sister Maya and me to believe that it
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was up to us and every generation of Americans to
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keep on marching. She'd tell us, don't sit around and
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complain about things, do something. So I did something.
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I devoted my.
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Life to making real the words carved in the United
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States Supreme Court, equal justice under law. And 30 years ago,
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I stood before a judge for the first time, breathed deep,
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and uttered the phrase that would truly guide my career
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and the rest of my career. Kamala Harris for the people.
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Alyssa, tell us exactly when and how you found out
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about the pick and what was your immediate reaction?
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I found out about the pick on CNN. And I mean,
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I think the two... To put it in the words
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of Elizabeth Warren, let's fucking go. Like, it was great.
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It's exciting. You know, it's great.
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It's wonderful. It's a woman.
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Dan, it's a woman. Dan, what did you think? What
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was your initial reaction?
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I found out about it in the Crooked Media Slack channel,
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which is where I discovered it. There you go.
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That's where you find all your breaking news.
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Yes. Look, I agree with Alyssa.
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I think.
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When something is expected, it's easy to, in the run-up
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to it, not fully recognize how exciting it can be.
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If you had asked anyone a year ago and you
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were to say, Joe Biden is going to be the
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Democratic nominee, who is his vice president going to be?
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I would say most people in politics probably would have
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guessed Kamala Harris. But the theoretical is very different than
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the actual. And it was incredibly exciting when the news
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came out. The excitement of people all across the country
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in the party was palpable. Just even talking to people
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in my life who were not engaged in politics full-time
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like us, they were very, very excited about it. I
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am as pumped up about this election as I have
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been in many, many months.
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I was surprised by how much it meant to me.
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I think you guys... will probably agree one of the
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downsides of being a political junkies like us is that
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sometimes you're so caught up in the daily bullshit that
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you can miss the larger significance of certain moments. And
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I was, I was thinking back to that night that
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Barack Obama made history as the first black candidate to
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win the Iowa caucuses and how one of the people
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celebrating in the office when they called the race was
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then San Francisco district attorney, Kamala Harris, who had been
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out knocking on doors for him. A decade later, Donald
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Trump wins, in part because of a racial backlash to
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the election of Barack Obama. And now, to beat him,
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Joe Biden, the older white guy Obama selected as his
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running mate, turns around and chooses Kamala, whose parents, like Obama's,
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came from opposite sides of the world to be the
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first black woman to run on a major party ticket.
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And it sort of reminded me of what our old
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boss said Um, I think shortly after Trump won, which
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is that history doesn't always move in a straight line,
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but it moves. Um, and I don't know, it was a,
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it's a big deal. It's a big deal.
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And I thought the video was charming of Joe Biden
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calling Kamala. Oh my God. You know, sometimes that's not
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done well. It can seem very inauthentic and hokey. I
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loved it. She's like, I'm sorry to keep you waiting.
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She looked like a normal person. I'm wearing my Kamala
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shirt because I think this is what she was wearing
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in her video. I thought it was great. And you
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know what else? Really, this is so nerd. This is
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music nerd of me. But I was like, fucking Bob
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Marley is up in heaven smiling right now. A person
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of Jamaican descent is the vice president of the United States.
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So anyway, Bob Marley.
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I hadn't thought about that. That's awesome.
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Not everyone thinks of Bob Marley.
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You do. Dan, why do you think in the end
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that Joe Biden chose her?
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I think he... believed. I've always believed that Joe Biden
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was looking for his Joe Biden in this process. And
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by that, I mean someone that he could have a
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real relationship of trust with. Because I really believe that
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you can make political cases for all of the people
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who are on that shortlist. And certainly, the political case
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for Kamala Harris is incredibly strong. She's a very, very
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talented campaigner, which I think we'll talk about. But he
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came to the conclusion, and I think very much influenced
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by Beau's relationship with Senator Harris, He believed that they
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could have the same relationship of trust that he had
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with Barack Obama. And that was going to be key
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to a governing partnership.
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Alyssa, the New York Times wrote that Kamala was, quote,
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seen throughout the vice presidential search as among the safest
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choices available to Mr.
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Biden.
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I thought that was a sentiment that was echoed throughout
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a lot of the coverage in Punditry. What did you
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think about that? Was she the safe choice?
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Fucking ask any black woman in America if they agree
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with that statement. Like first of all, picking a woman,
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this was something that we talked about a lot on
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That's the Ticket. At no point has putting a woman
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on the ticket, like that ticket's not won.
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Okay.
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So there is no way that any of this is
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like a safe choice. Now it was never the vice
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presidential female's fault because except this time, last two times
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women were added when the candidate was way, way behind.
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So no, this was not a safe choice. That's just,
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it's fucking crazy to say that. This was like, this
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was an inspired choice. It was a good choice. And
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it was not, I can't imagine that any woman who
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heard the news the other day was like, fucking low
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hanging fruit. Like, that's just not what happened.
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I mean, reading those stories in preparation for this podcast
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from all the various papers that, you know, it was
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all couch, right? It was like safe but exciting choice.
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Biden goes the safe route. And like what has happened
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in American politics, not just in our– the last four
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has been our history that suggests that the safe thing
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to do is to put a woman of color on
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the ticket. And it really feels like the punditry confused
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expected and safe.
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That's what I was going to ask. Do you think
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she was the obvious choice?
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Yes.
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I mean, she– at any point in time, if you
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had asked anyone to place their life on the line
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to pick who Joe Biden would pick, you would pick
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Kamala Harris because she passes every single test. She has
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all of the readiness and experience you need to do
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the job, tremendously talented campaigner. You know that there is
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a foundation of a relationship between her and Joe Biden
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because of her relationship with Beau. And so– The whole
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way the coverage played out speaks to how the press
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overvalues surprise, right? It's exciting if they haven't thought about it.
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But what they forget is they live in the same
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Twitter echo chamber bubble that we do, where many people
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were quite surprised by this choice because they recognized in
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the long history of America, there has never been a
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black woman on a major party ticket. So it is
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exciting and it is unexpected because it goes against the
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history of this country.
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Yeah, I don't think it was a safe choice. I
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felt personally for maybe the last three, four weeks that
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it was either going to be Kamala Harris or Susan Rice.
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I mean, I guess I thought since the protests following
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George Floyd's murder, I began to strongly believe that the
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Biden campaign would select a woman of color for the
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ticket because I do think we're in a moment of
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racial reckoning. And I think- that the Biden campaign and
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Joe Biden himself has proved himself to be someone who
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is willing to listen and grow and make sure that
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the campaign he's running is reflective of the party that
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he now leads and the country that he wants to lead.
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Even if he himself and his own identity is not
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quite reflective of that party, he has been very open
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to that. And so I thought since the protest that
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he would ultimately select a woman of color. And I
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think because we are in a moment where the next
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president will inherit a worst recession than Obama did, the
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greatest public health crisis in a century, and the fact
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that Joe Biden is 78 years old, he was going
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to select someone who had extensive governing and political and
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legislative experience. And Kamala Harris has all of those things.
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And I think Susan also has tremendous governing experience as well.
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I think in the end, another part of the calculation was,
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has this person been vetted and tested on the national
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scene in the midst of a brutal political campaign? And
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Kamala had because of the primary. And probably that in
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the end is what weighed against Susan, in my view.
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Yeah.
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I just have to say, because we all know on
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That's the Ticket, I predicted he'd pick Susan. And Pfeiffer
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predicted Kamala. So I want to say, yay, Pfeiffer. But
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same thing. I kind of thought that because it did
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seem for so long like Kamala was the obvious choice,
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that because, and I say this, let me finish my
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sentence before you disagree with me. It feels like it
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took such a long time And I know it's because
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we're not doing campaign events. There's nothing else to look at.
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This timing is very historical for when he announced her,
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but because there was nothing else to think about and
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you have to wonder like how much else was there
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going on. It seemed like this was their singular focus.
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So because they weren't announcing right away, I thought maybe
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there was, I thought maybe Susan had like, you know,
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eclipsed Kamala, but I was wrong. So I just want
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to say that I was wrong.
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I'm going to agree with you. Because it was longer, right? Historically,
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as we talked about on That's the Ticket, the VP
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announcement generally comes about seven to 10 days before the convention.
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And in recent years, in almost every occasion except Paul
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Ryan in 2012, it's come about essentially this exact timing,
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which is right before the weekend before the convention. But
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what was different this time is the convention was later
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and Joe Biden got the nomination much earlier. So in
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addition to the absolute monotonous life that we have stuck
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in our homes, the actual period of time was much longer.
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And so it felt more painful and, you know, and
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led to, you know, some dynamics that a lot of
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people very rightfully called out as being pretty toxic about
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how a lot of these women and women of color
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were being pitted against each other in media and by,
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you know, sort of political people on all sides.
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Yeah, there were, I will say there were moments over
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the last couple of weeks where I thought it definitely
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could be Susan. Partly because Joe Biden so values personal
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relationships and he is close to Susan and is not
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as close to Kamala, though certainly close to her as well. But,
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you know, our old boss says this all the time
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and has had this sort of, at least in reports
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through the process, that when he was selecting a running
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mate or when you select a running mate, it is
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very important to select someone who has been through the
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ringer of a political campaign. And look, you know, I've
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seen some people be like, well, Kamala didn't do as
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well in the primary or this or that or she like.
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She went through some incredibly tough campaigns in California where
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being in a Democratic primary in California is very rough.
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And you have to be a very fucking good campaigner
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to get through Democratic primaries in the state of California.
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And Kamala Harris succeeded at doing that multiple times. And
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then she went through a presidential campaign and came out
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of that campaign, even though she didn't make it, incredibly
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well-liked by most of the Democratic Party and most of
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the country. And that's like, that's no small feat. Um,
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so what specifically does Kamala Harris bring to the ticket? Alyssa?
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I think she's very comfortable on social media.
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No, this is the thing.
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This is the thing because how are people communicating right now?
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So one, it's obviously not the biggest thing, but I've
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just noticed it in the past couple of days. Like
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she's She's great. She can communicate in ways that you
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guys would advocate in the White House for how do
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you communicate to all the people who aren't on Twitter
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and who don't want to watch cable news. I think
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that she is a great person that they will be
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able to engage. Also, she is like one of the
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greatest things to do is go back in time and
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watch her grill, Bill Barr, and especially Brett Kavanaugh, and
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know that that so many Republicans will face that fate now.
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Like the idea of Kamala sort of prosecuting the case,
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I think against the Trump administration, like she said in
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her announcement speech, I just think that she is a
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wonderful speaker. She's a great speaker. She's a great debater.
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I mean, she's one of the people in the primaries.
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If you sort of, if I had to break down
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who came to the debate, all 500 of them, with
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a plan and like executed on that plan, it would
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probably be she and Amy Klobuchar. Those were the two
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people who I thought always came not to play. So
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I just think that she's, and she's, you know, for
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the first, I think that we talk so much about
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how people don't vote for a VP. And I do
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think that in this case, people are going to be very,
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very motivated to vote early, vote by mail, vote period
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because of her.
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Alyssa, can I ask you a question?
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Yeah.
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In Biden's announcement of her, he talked about how tough
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she was, what a fighter she was. And I recognize
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that the fighting language is how she described herself. It
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was a big argument of herself in the primary. What
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was your reaction to that? Like, it just feel like
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we still live in this world where, you know, in
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order to succeed as a woman in politics, you have
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to pass this, you know, toughness threshold that, you know,
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I don't know whether it exists with voters or not,
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but it was just the language struck me.
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So here's interesting. So his speech coupled with Kamala's speech
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was the perfect circle, right? It encapsulated everything. He talked
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about how tough she was. She talked about her bio
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and how she's Mamala and all that stuff. So I
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think that if you wanted to paint a complete picture
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of Kamala, it happened at the event. His speech on
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its own, if he had said it without her giving
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her remarks after it, I think it might have been
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a little like, really? You know, like we got to
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be so fucking tough all the time. And I think
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that this was a better representation of her as a
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whole person, the two speeches put together.
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That's interesting.
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Yeah.
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My test on this is always, like, could you imagine
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it being said about a male politician? I think fighter
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is said about male politicians. Tough is not. It's just
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like you don't hear people calling male politicians tough. You
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just don't hear that.
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Because you assume they're tough.
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Because there's an assumption built in.
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Yeah.
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Dan, what else do you think that she brings to
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the ticket?
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I think Alyssa hits on what is a very important one,
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which is she is a very good campaigner in the
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age of the internet. She has a real palpable authenticity
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about her that was like a great asset of hers
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in the primary. She was always great on late night
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talk shows or Other formats, like when she was on
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The Breakfast Club and things like that, I think she
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was always– she's just very good. And there's like a
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balance between her and Biden. And I think the best
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tickets are ones where when they're together, it sort of
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creates a– it improves both of them, right? And I
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think that happened with Obama and Biden. And you could
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see that with Kamala Harris and Biden yesterday, even though
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they– by together, I mean six feet apart wearing masks,
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which is such is our life. But, you know, the
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moment that I just, like, I think sort of sent
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chills down my spine and I thought embodied a lot
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of what makes Kamala Harris such a endearing and compelling
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politician and person was, you know, here it is, the
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biggest moment of her life. She is a, you know,
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she's making history. And when Joe Biden says, let me
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introduce the next vice president of the United States, you
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can see her literally react with joy to it. Like
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she sort of like shrugged her shoulders in excitement and
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it was just very authentic. And Like that is a
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huge part of what I think she will bring to
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this ticket. And it's so much more important in a
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situation where you are campaigning on the internet over Zoom
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or whatever it is, instead of being actually in person,
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where Joe Biden is a phenomenal campaigner in person. You know,
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less so in sort of the digital space, but I
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think Kamala can fill some of those gaps.
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You know what else just is also in terms of
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her authenticity is just really interesting. I think that for
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however many years we've been talking about this, that the
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media has decided what women want to see, you know,
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that like a woman should be tough, but she should
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also make a pie and like she should have coiffed
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hair and like good suit. And the thing about Kamala
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is that like one of the greatest things that you
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can one of the greatest stories is that she called
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Cory Booker on his birthday, Senator Cory Booker on his birthday,
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but she decided that he needed to learn how to
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make lentils. He told her that he was making lentils.
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So she made him go to FaceTime and she had
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rollers in her hair and she's just like explaining him
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how to fucking get it done. That's like what women
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relate to. And I feel like she represents that in
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a way that it took us this long to get
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comfortable with.
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I mean, one of the all-time great internet moments is
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her teaching Mark Warner.
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So good. So good.
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No, I mean, I totally agree with all that. I
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think three things, you know, her brilliance, which is evidenced
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every time she's been on the Judiciary Committee, besting all
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of her colleagues in questioning whatever witness is up. I
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think her charisma. I think she's you know, the best
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speaker on a Democratic Party major ticket since Barack Obama.
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Anyone else I can remember? And she and the charisma
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is both something we see in public. And for those
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of us who have met her privately, it's the same. Like,
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you know, all the candidates came to the office. And
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I think like hanging out with Elizabeth Warren and Kamala
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Harris were like two of the great joys that I
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had with all of those candidates. They're just They're just
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really fun and warm and just great people to hang
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out with and funny too. Kamala's very funny.
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We saw that in person. Remember, she was the guest
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at the second ever Positive America live show in San Francisco.
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It was only like four or five months after she
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got to the Senate. And I mean, she brought the
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house down. I mean, it was a house full of
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very inebriated San Franciscans, but she brought it down. And
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one other thing about what Kamala brings to the ticket
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that I should have brought up earlier is Kamala is
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a gamer. When the game is on the line, she delivers.
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In every one of those debates, like the expectations for
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her going in to the Kavanaugh hearing, and she just
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came and brought it. In the debates when her campaign
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was on the line, she had her best performances. And
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so when the pressure is greatest, she has delivered in
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really big ways. And that's something you absolutely need in
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the candidate part of a vice presidential campaign. candidacy, like
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the debate, the convention speech, she's got these huge moments.
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And if she can continue that pattern of delivering, that's huge.
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I also think the last point on this is, you know,
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Joe Biden has talked about his candidacy as sort of
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a bridge to the future of the party. And she
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represents the future of the Democratic Party and sort of
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the future of where the demographics are shifting in the
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country itself. Ron Brownstein always talks about, and we talked
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about this in the wilderness a lot, the coalition of
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restoration as sort of the Republican coalition and the Democratic
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party represents the coalition of transformation. You know, 30% of
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our voters in the Democratic party are non-college educated white voters, right?
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30% are college educated white voters and 40% are voters
485
00:26:08.690 --> 00:26:12.609
of color. And, you know, we, despite the fact that
486
00:26:12.630 --> 00:26:14.029
we have Joe Biden on the top of the ticket,
487
00:26:14.109 --> 00:26:20.759
we now have A 55-year-old black woman, immigrant story, comes
488
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:24.720
from San Francisco, comes from California, who is representing the
489
00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:27.900
future of the party. And I do think that is
490
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.319
incredibly important as we head into this election and as,
491
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.269
you know, if Democrats are going to win, it's going
492
00:26:34.289 --> 00:26:38.549
to be because they rack up these margins in increasingly
493
00:26:38.990 --> 00:26:46.509
diverse suburbs circling these major cities. Um, so let's talk
494
00:26:46.529 --> 00:26:49.890
about the reaction to Kamala's selection, which was overwhelmingly positive.
495
00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:51.710
Just about every elected Democrat from all wings of the
496
00:26:51.750 --> 00:26:54.509
party praised the pick as well as activists and organizers
497
00:26:54.529 --> 00:26:57.029
who'd criticized Harris in the past. Of course, there has
498
00:26:57.049 --> 00:26:59.670
been some criticism from progressives that Kamala is too moderate
499
00:26:59.710 --> 00:27:03.369
or cautious, particularly her record on criminal justice from when
500
00:27:03.410 --> 00:27:07.319
she was San Francisco's DA and California attorney general. Um, Alyssa,
501
00:27:07.339 --> 00:27:08.319
what do you make of that criticism?
502
00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:13.759
Uh, what I think is as our as our colleague
503
00:27:13.779 --> 00:27:17.240
Dennis McDonough used to say, new broom sweeps clean. Let's
504
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:20.819
get on with it, progressives. Let's, like, you guys know,
505
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:22.720
I got a Bernie bumper sticker on my car. I
506
00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:24.900
got an EW sticker on my car, and I'm waiting
507
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:29.069
for my Biden-Harris sticker for my car. But come the
508
00:27:29.089 --> 00:27:32.549
fuck on. Like, Jesus Christ, the president of the United
509
00:27:32.589 --> 00:27:36.049
States is dismantling the United States Postal Service. And we
510
00:27:36.109 --> 00:27:38.910
all know, too, that we have to get them elected.
511
00:27:38.930 --> 00:27:41.960
But we were in the White House when people who
512
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.160
supported Barack Obama protested outside because they were holding his
513
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.970
feet to the fire on promises he made and changes
514
00:27:49.009 --> 00:27:51.950
that they wanted to see. So like, let's just get
515
00:27:52.009 --> 00:27:55.029
elected and then like, let's go ahead and protest or
516
00:27:55.049 --> 00:27:56.849
do whatever you want to do. But like, let's just
517
00:27:56.869 --> 00:27:57.930
keep our eye on the ball here.
518
00:27:58.369 --> 00:27:58.670
Dan?
519
00:27:59.690 --> 00:28:02.329
You know, you know, I agree with everything Alyssa said there.
520
00:28:02.369 --> 00:28:05.980
I think it's hard to When you are disappointed about something,
521
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.470
it is hard to be told, don't be disappointed about
522
00:28:08.509 --> 00:28:11.049
it or you're wrong to be unhappy about it. And
523
00:28:11.130 --> 00:28:13.390
so I don't really know what the right thing to
524
00:28:13.450 --> 00:28:15.119
say is to some of those people other than to
525
00:28:15.220 --> 00:28:21.460
encourage them to look at. the movement that Biden has
526
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.579
made on a whole host of issues. He's really the
527
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:25.779
first candidate that I can ever think of who wins
528
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:27.880
a primary and moves left as opposed to, you know,
529
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:29.839
the standard way of thinking about it is you move,
530
00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:33.809
you go left in the primary and to the center
531
00:28:33.829 --> 00:28:36.670
in the general. And Biden has, you know, he's made real,
532
00:28:37.490 --> 00:28:40.829
real fundamental substantive shifts on issues like climate and student
533
00:28:40.869 --> 00:28:44.450
debt and taxes and other issues. And that should be seen,
534
00:28:44.490 --> 00:28:47.730
I think, as a sign that even if this is
535
00:28:47.789 --> 00:28:51.759
not the vice presidential pick you would have chosen, that
536
00:28:51.990 --> 00:28:54.200
the progressive wing, the progressive activists are going to have
537
00:28:54.220 --> 00:28:57.359
an opportunity to have a real influence on the agenda
538
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:00.539
in a Biden-Harris administration? Yeah.
539
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:05.779
I mean, look, I interviewed Kamala when she came to Crooked,
540
00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:08.619
and I pushed her on a lot of her past
541
00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:12.500
policies and record when she was DA and AG. I
542
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:16.880
talked to her about her truancy policies, and she said,
543
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:18.839
if I was to do it over again, I wouldn't
544
00:29:18.859 --> 00:29:21.119
have done the same thing. I think we have to
545
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:26.279
understand that public officials, elected officials are products of the
546
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:29.690
time that they're from, that they're in. As a DA
547
00:29:29.710 --> 00:29:32.829
in 2004, she refused to seek the death penalty for
548
00:29:32.849 --> 00:29:36.430
a man who killed a police officer. She was attacked
549
00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:39.789
by police officers and police officer associations. She was attacked
550
00:29:39.829 --> 00:29:43.940
for it by Dianne Feinstein. She almost lost her race
551
00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:47.640
for attorney general because of that. And that's sort of
552
00:29:47.779 --> 00:29:51.059
in your mind when you're trying to run for office
553
00:29:51.099 --> 00:29:55.230
back then. I think I mean, it was hilarious to
554
00:29:55.250 --> 00:29:57.349
me that she is being called in all this coverage
555
00:29:57.490 --> 00:29:59.869
a moderate, like Joe Biden has found a fellow moderate
556
00:29:59.910 --> 00:30:03.980
or centrist. She supports something extremely close to Medicare for all,
557
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.500
which Bernie Sanders acknowledged in his statement supporting her. She's
558
00:30:07.539 --> 00:30:09.359
for the Green New Deal. She has one of the
559
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:13.440
most liberal records in the U.S. Senate. If you want
560
00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:16.750
to call Kamala Harris's record in the Senate and her
561
00:30:16.789 --> 00:30:20.009
policies that she's supporting now, centrist or moderate, great. If
562
00:30:20.069 --> 00:30:23.650
that's where the Overton window has moved, then congratulations to
563
00:30:23.750 --> 00:30:26.029
all the progressive activists because you have fucking moved the
564
00:30:26.130 --> 00:30:28.640
shit out of that window that is supporting the Green
565
00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:32.700
New Deal. And basically, Medicare for All is now moderate
566
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.900
and centrist. Fantastic. I'll take it.
567
00:30:35.579 --> 00:30:38.420
I also would encourage people to read and look at
568
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:41.690
what some of the activists on criminal justice matters have
569
00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:45.569
said about this. And they've talked about how, you know,
570
00:30:45.609 --> 00:30:48.250
while they have very real concerns about her record when
571
00:30:48.309 --> 00:30:50.869
she was attorney general or in the city of San Francisco,
572
00:30:51.529 --> 00:30:54.119
that she has made movement on some or maybe even
573
00:30:54.140 --> 00:30:57.380
a lot of those issues in recent years. And so, like,
574
00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.559
you know, I think those are the, for people who,
575
00:30:59.779 --> 00:31:01.619
if your concern is what her record was in the past,
576
00:31:02.019 --> 00:31:03.960
there are some people who are real subject matter experts
577
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:06.589
in that stuff who are talking about how it intersects
578
00:31:06.670 --> 00:31:09.390
with her policy positions now. And I just want to
579
00:31:09.410 --> 00:31:11.049
encourage people to look at what a lot of those
580
00:31:11.109 --> 00:31:12.569
activists have had to say on Twitter and elsewhere.
581
00:31:13.420 --> 00:31:15.480
Well, and I would say to everyone, too, like and
582
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:18.279
don't take her word for it and Joe Biden's word
583
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.000
for it now. If you're still disappointed, like hold their
584
00:31:21.019 --> 00:31:23.960
feet to the fire. If they're elected and they start
585
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.640
backtracking and they and, you know, they do something you
586
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:28.549
don't like on criminal justice reform or they don't go
587
00:31:28.609 --> 00:31:33.170
far enough, then then fight it. Fight it hard. But
588
00:31:33.210 --> 00:31:35.769
that's you know, that's I think that's the best way forward.
589
00:31:37.869 --> 00:31:39.470
So I do want to talk briefly about the other
590
00:31:39.509 --> 00:31:41.990
candidates who made the shortlist and went through the very
591
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.490
intense vetting process today. We talked about Susan Rice, Congresswoman
592
00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:49.470
Karen Bass, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Senator
593
00:31:49.509 --> 00:31:52.670
Tammy Duckworth. Alyssa, what, if anything, do you think this
594
00:31:52.730 --> 00:31:54.990
process has done for these women?
595
00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:59.000
You know, I think everybody, all of the women minus
596
00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:02.190
Elizabeth Warren, whose profile is I think was quite high
597
00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:06.529
before this process. I think that the process was done
598
00:32:06.589 --> 00:32:10.829
respectfully and these women have bigger platforms now that they
599
00:32:10.869 --> 00:32:14.549
can use going forward for their states, for their districts,
600
00:32:14.869 --> 00:32:17.670
and to run for even higher office. So I think
601
00:32:17.690 --> 00:32:18.079
it's all good.
602
00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:20.759
Dan?
603
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.200
Can I say something about our friend Susan Rice for
604
00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:28.059
a second? Sure. Now, as everyone knows, we have been
605
00:32:28.099 --> 00:32:30.079
friends and colleagues of Susan's for a very long time.
606
00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:33.079
And as someone who was known to work with her,
607
00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:35.380
the idea for the vice president was quite exciting to
608
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:38.740
us because she would do a fucking great job at it.
609
00:32:38.789 --> 00:32:41.069
She is about as qualified to do that job as
610
00:32:41.130 --> 00:32:45.009
anyone in the world. But it was painful as someone
611
00:32:45.150 --> 00:32:49.490
who likes and cares about her to watch this process
612
00:32:49.509 --> 00:32:54.269
play itself out. And nothing pissed me off more. than
613
00:32:54.410 --> 00:32:58.450
the never Trumpers who were trying to shore up their
614
00:32:58.470 --> 00:33:02.349
conservative credentials by saying, look, I'll vote for Joe Biden
615
00:33:02.410 --> 00:33:03.950
if he picks Susan Rice, because here's what I have
616
00:33:03.970 --> 00:33:07.000
to say. Your argument against Susan Rice is based on
617
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.779
a right wing fucking conspiracy theory about Benghazi.
618
00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:14.859
And if you think that many of them acknowledge that
619
00:33:14.900 --> 00:33:17.630
many of them acknowledge is a conspiracy theory and then
620
00:33:17.809 --> 00:33:21.089
go on to say, I know it's bullshit, but it's
621
00:33:21.150 --> 00:33:23.470
out there. So I'm just going to say it's bad
622
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:24.119
for her anyway.
623
00:33:24.579 --> 00:33:30.279
If you are so proudly this evolved Republican who is
624
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:33.359
against Trump, but you don't have the fucking guts to
625
00:33:33.420 --> 00:33:38.019
stand up to Benghazi trutherism, then your party is doomed
626
00:33:38.059 --> 00:33:40.960
to repeat itself. Then you have missed every fucking lesson
627
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:45.039
about it. It is just absolute disgusting way in order
628
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.259
to ensure that even if you're against Trump, you can
629
00:33:47.299 --> 00:33:51.359
still get invited to the weekly standard Christmas party. Bingo.
630
00:33:51.940 --> 00:33:55.220
Here's my dream. Here's my dream. I let myself think
631
00:33:55.299 --> 00:33:59.359
just for a moment that perhaps Joe Biden would announce
632
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:02.730
Kamala Harris as vice president and then out would walk
633
00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:04.490
Susan Rice and he would say, this is going to
634
00:34:04.509 --> 00:34:07.589
be my secretary of state. And then out would walk
635
00:34:07.650 --> 00:34:09.489
Elizabeth Warren and he would say, and this is going
636
00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:10.730
to be my secretary of treasury.
637
00:34:11.690 --> 00:34:14.440
That was just- I feel great about all those.
638
00:34:14.500 --> 00:34:15.219
Maybe it still will.
639
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.000
I'm very opposed to the cabinet before the election idea.
640
00:34:18.019 --> 00:34:18.099
Yeah.
641
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:19.659
No, I know.
642
00:34:19.739 --> 00:34:20.570
I guess there might be some.
643
00:34:20.610 --> 00:34:21.179
Eye on the ball.
644
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:21.840
Eye on the ball.
645
00:34:21.860 --> 00:34:23.880
Before Twitter tells me there are... I know. I know
646
00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:27.400
there are legal issues, perhaps. But I still think he
647
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:31.000
would be wise to select Susan as... Look, I also
648
00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:32.800
just want to scoop Pod Save the World on this.
649
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:34.920
You know they're going to start Susan for Secretary of State.
650
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.460
Wouldn't it be great that we got to it first here?
651
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.519
I mean, I'm having shirts made on Etsy.
652
00:34:38.900 --> 00:34:39.380
Is that weird?
653
00:34:41.780 --> 00:34:43.019
Susan for State.
654
00:34:43.059 --> 00:34:43.920
Susan for Sec State.
655
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:44.619
Let's do it.
656
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:44.699
Or.
657
00:34:44.980 --> 00:34:48.940
Ann Warren at Treasury, wielding tremendous power at the Treasury Department.
658
00:34:49.619 --> 00:34:52.139
Just making Wall Street fucking lose their shit.
659
00:34:52.420 --> 00:34:56.739
Never Trumper heads exploding left and right. I was for
660
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.139
Biden until he decided to put someone in place to
661
00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:00.739
fix the economy my party broke.
662
00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:05.920
Make a supportive ad about that one, Lincoln Project. Warranted Treasury.
663
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.079
Let's see. You want in?
664
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:08.840
Do that.
665
00:35:11.659 --> 00:35:22.510
That's our price of admission. Alyssa, I want to talk
666
00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:25.429
to you about the rollout because you are the expert
667
00:35:26.170 --> 00:35:29.639
on all things rollouts. You've been involved in many of these.
668
00:35:30.099 --> 00:35:31.760
So on the announcement side, the campaign was able to
669
00:35:31.780 --> 00:35:34.380
break its own news via text to its supporters on Tuesday.
670
00:35:34.780 --> 00:35:37.340
On Wednesday morning, you spoke about this. Harris's team posted
671
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.159
a video of Biden asking Harris to be his running
672
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:42.110
mate over Zoom. I assume it was Zoom. And then
673
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:44.909
on Wednesday, there was the joint event in Wilmington with
674
00:35:44.949 --> 00:35:48.889
two speeches, plenty of masks, no crowd. What did you
675
00:35:48.909 --> 00:35:50.269
think of how this all went down? What did you
676
00:35:50.289 --> 00:35:50.789
think of the rollout?
677
00:35:51.500 --> 00:35:54.300
So I need to say I never got my text message,
678
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.480
even though I signed up, which I was sad about.
679
00:35:56.619 --> 00:35:57.519
I didn't either. I know.
680
00:35:57.639 --> 00:35:59.730
I was like, wait, I wasn't supposed to find out
681
00:35:59.769 --> 00:36:04.030
on CNN. So here is what I'd like to say.
682
00:36:04.710 --> 00:36:07.679
You guys remember when we got to the White House
683
00:36:08.030 --> 00:36:11.260
and a lot of old school political people who had
684
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:15.900
been the last Democrats in office– would criticize us often
685
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:19.920
on TV for saying that we weren't being creative enough,
686
00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:22.599
that we weren't taking Barack Obama to the Grand Canyon
687
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.820
to sign legislation and all this stuff. And the problem was,
688
00:36:25.900 --> 00:36:27.920
is that they had not lived in a post 9-11
689
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:31.940
world and 9-11 changed everything. So I feel like for
690
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:34.969
people who were talking about yesterday, you have to remember
691
00:36:35.010 --> 00:36:37.489
that none of us understand what it is to go
692
00:36:37.550 --> 00:36:41.909
through this right now. So while I would have loved
693
00:36:42.369 --> 00:36:47.099
to see something super picture-esque, just like a real Time
694
00:36:47.139 --> 00:36:50.360
magazine cover. I thought they did a very good job.
695
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:55.429
You know, they both, they gave their speeches. Presumably nobody
696
00:36:55.469 --> 00:36:57.090
got sick. I mean, you know, it's like when you
697
00:36:57.130 --> 00:36:58.909
look at what the options are, I mean, Trump did
698
00:36:58.929 --> 00:37:02.150
his rallies and people have died. So I think that
699
00:37:02.289 --> 00:37:04.909
in the era of COVID, they did a really, a
700
00:37:05.829 --> 00:37:08.510
really good job. And the perfect was not the enemy
701
00:37:08.530 --> 00:37:11.670
of the good. And we got what we needed, which
702
00:37:11.710 --> 00:37:12.679
was to see them together.
703
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:16.969
Alyssa, what did you think of the lack of any
704
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:19.909
crowd whatsoever, the lack of any applause during the speeches?
705
00:37:21.070 --> 00:37:25.650
My view was fine for that event, which was middle
706
00:37:25.670 --> 00:37:27.210
of the day, most of the clips are going to
707
00:37:27.250 --> 00:37:28.949
run on the news at night, and so it's not
708
00:37:28.989 --> 00:37:31.570
like a lot of people sat through, except us junkies,
709
00:37:31.630 --> 00:37:35.409
sat through the whole both speeches. I'm a little concerned
710
00:37:35.469 --> 00:37:40.349
about the convention speeches, if we have a week of
711
00:37:40.449 --> 00:37:42.590
convention speeches like that. And I think... They might be
712
00:37:42.650 --> 00:37:44.639
planning something with sound, but I'm not sure.
713
00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:48.739
So I thought about this yesterday. One, I actually thought
714
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:53.280
Kamala was exceptional at delivering a very emotive speech without
715
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:54.980
a crowd. I thought that that was like a real
716
00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:00.360
plus for her. For Joe Biden, I would say that
717
00:38:00.429 --> 00:38:03.710
the shorter is the better when it comes to a
718
00:38:03.750 --> 00:38:07.530
world without crowds where you don't get any feedback because
719
00:38:07.570 --> 00:38:09.550
he was not as good. And I'm not being mean,
720
00:38:09.610 --> 00:38:12.090
but I mean, Kamala was exceptional at it. So I
721
00:38:12.130 --> 00:38:17.630
think that going forward, I would probably just Zoom as
722
00:38:17.690 --> 00:38:23.269
much as you possibly can because the in-person events, while
723
00:38:23.289 --> 00:38:27.469
they demonstrate what can be done in a time of
724
00:38:27.530 --> 00:38:30.610
social distancing and wearing masks and everything and they're modeling
725
00:38:30.650 --> 00:38:35.550
really good behavior, it's not that compelling. So I think
726
00:38:35.590 --> 00:38:39.110
unless there's something really compelling about doing a live event,
727
00:38:39.590 --> 00:38:41.440
that Zoom's probably just fine.
728
00:38:42.889 --> 00:38:43.409
Dan, what do you think?
729
00:38:43.969 --> 00:38:46.130
I agree with Alyssa that the rollout wouldn't as well
730
00:38:46.170 --> 00:38:50.030
as could possibly be hoped for in this environment. What
731
00:38:50.050 --> 00:38:52.150
I think says a lot about their process is, although
732
00:38:52.170 --> 00:38:53.909
you guys did not get the text message, I did
733
00:38:53.949 --> 00:38:56.030
get it. I got it after I learned the news,
734
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.940
but the Biden campaign announced it. That's a pretty amazing thing.
735
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:04.320
In 2008, we were not the ones to announce Joe Biden.
736
00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:07.239
John King from CNN broke it before we were able
737
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:09.590
to even hit send on our texts. And so, If
738
00:39:09.670 --> 00:39:12.130
you are the ones who make the actual announcement of
739
00:39:12.150 --> 00:39:14.539
your vice presidential pick before a reporter figures it out,
740
00:39:14.579 --> 00:39:16.699
that's a sign of a very successful and well-run process.
741
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:19.420
Yes, that's very true.
742
00:39:19.460 --> 00:39:22.619
I 100% agree on the applause as it relates to
743
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:25.429
the convention. And I'm sure they are already working on this.
744
00:39:25.510 --> 00:39:28.090
But both the NBA and Major League Baseball have figured
745
00:39:28.130 --> 00:39:32.139
out some ways to make this seem less weird on television,
746
00:39:32.380 --> 00:39:35.599
because you can hear applause in empty arenas. And the
747
00:39:35.659 --> 00:39:37.389
NBA also has a very cool thing where they're having
748
00:39:37.409 --> 00:39:39.269
fans zoom in. So when you're watching it on TV,
749
00:39:39.289 --> 00:39:41.829
you can see sort of like a digital wall of people.
750
00:39:41.889 --> 00:39:46.309
And so there are some opportunities for that. It's not perfect,
751
00:39:46.349 --> 00:39:48.989
don't get me wrong. I do think in the context
752
00:39:49.010 --> 00:39:54.360
of this event, there is something that is worthwhile, even
753
00:39:54.380 --> 00:39:56.760
if you're not getting enthusiasm, but the whole thing where
754
00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:59.909
they come in with masks, they wear masks, there are
755
00:39:59.929 --> 00:40:03.409
the spots where they stand apart. In addition to it
756
00:40:03.449 --> 00:40:05.550
being the right thing to do, it is also a
757
00:40:05.630 --> 00:40:09.280
reminder of the situation that Donald Trump put us in
758
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.320
and how irresponsible he is being about it. And I
759
00:40:12.380 --> 00:40:15.360
think When you look at all the polling around coronavirus,
760
00:40:15.460 --> 00:40:17.949
I think there is value in showing that we take
761
00:40:17.989 --> 00:40:20.630
this seriously and are doing it in the right way.
762
00:40:20.869 --> 00:40:24.190
And in that sense, the lack of applause can be
763
00:40:24.230 --> 00:40:27.449
a feature, not a bug, because it once again highlights
764
00:40:27.550 --> 00:40:30.610
that Donald Trump has so royally screwed this up that
765
00:40:30.889 --> 00:40:33.130
you were doing these political events, which would otherwise be
766
00:40:33.170 --> 00:40:38.050
these raucous rallies, in these ways that are very understandable
767
00:40:38.090 --> 00:40:40.909
to Americans who are stuck in their home. Yeah.
768
00:40:41.429 --> 00:40:43.679
I do agree with Alyssa that I thought I think
769
00:40:43.699 --> 00:40:45.659
Biden has been, he's done a few of these events
770
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:48.639
without applause, and he does a pretty good job in
771
00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:51.300
what I think is a very tough circumstance, delivering a
772
00:40:51.340 --> 00:40:54.480
speech with no crowd, delivering it. But I thought that
773
00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:59.599
Kamala was excelled at delivering a speech to no applause.
774
00:40:59.619 --> 00:41:04.480
And I thought her speech itself was excellent. It was excellent, yeah.
775
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:06.940
One of her best speeches. So let's talk about the
776
00:41:06.980 --> 00:41:10.579
reaction from Donald Trump, who... Welcome to Kamala Harris to
777
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:13.099
the Race with a combination of grace and shrewdness. Here's
778
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:13.480
a clip.
779
00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:18.369
She did very, very poorly in the primaries, as you know.
780
00:41:18.610 --> 00:41:23.489
She was expected to do well. And she was, she
781
00:41:23.550 --> 00:41:27.429
ended up at right around 2% and spent a lot
782
00:41:27.449 --> 00:41:30.159
of money. She had a lot of things happening. And
783
00:41:30.469 --> 00:41:32.260
so I was a little surprised that he picked her.
784
00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:35.119
I've been watching her for a long time and I
785
00:41:35.139 --> 00:41:39.619
was a little surprised. She was extraordinarily nasty to Kavanaugh,
786
00:41:40.219 --> 00:41:43.360
Judge Kavanaugh then, now Justice Kavanaugh. She was nasty to
787
00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:47.389
a level that was just a horrible thing the way
788
00:41:47.429 --> 00:41:52.429
she was, the way she treated now Justice Kavanaugh. And
789
00:41:52.670 --> 00:41:55.769
I won't forget that soon. So she did very poorly
790
00:41:55.809 --> 00:41:58.380
in the primaries and now she's chosen. So let's see
791
00:41:58.420 --> 00:41:58.820
how that.
792
00:41:58.739 --> 00:41:59.400
All works out.
793
00:42:01.179 --> 00:42:05.710
So we're used to Trump's freewheeling style. But we've also
794
00:42:05.769 --> 00:42:09.590
seen a completely incoherent reaction from his campaign, the Republican Party,
795
00:42:09.650 --> 00:42:12.989
the right-wing media. They're selling Kamala as a cop t-shirts
796
00:42:13.269 --> 00:42:17.239
and also calling her anti-police. Republican Senator Josh Hawley called
797
00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:19.699
her a darling of Wall Street, while the RNC chair
798
00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:22.420
said she's a radical socialist. Katrina Pearson of the Trump
799
00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:24.920
campaign put out a rambling statement with a bunch of lies.
800
00:42:25.659 --> 00:42:28.849
What's wrong with these people? Why can't they settle on
801
00:42:28.889 --> 00:42:30.309
a line of attack here, Dan?
802
00:42:30.789 --> 00:42:34.789
Because they're stupid. I mean, it's just like, we should
803
00:42:34.809 --> 00:42:35.170
just be very clear.
804
00:42:35.190 --> 00:42:38.489
They had time. They had so much time to prepare.
805
00:42:38.510 --> 00:42:42.039
Yeah. I mean, this is not like we were caught
806
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:44.219
off guard when John McCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008
807
00:42:44.219 --> 00:42:48.659
because she was on no one short list. And Kamala
808
00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:53.079
Harris has been the leading contender for this position since
809
00:42:53.179 --> 00:42:55.679
the day Joe Biden became nominee. How they're unprepared for
810
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:59.570
it is so it's both mind boggling in one sense.
811
00:42:59.610 --> 00:43:02.519
It makes complete sense. When you look at how the
812
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:04.260
rest of the campaign runs. And I think part of
813
00:43:04.340 --> 00:43:10.050
it is that trolling is not a coherent political strategy.
814
00:43:10.289 --> 00:43:13.050
And so you're just constantly looking to get some sort
815
00:43:13.070 --> 00:43:17.869
of reaction without any regard for a coherent message. And so, yeah,
816
00:43:17.929 --> 00:43:20.880
will people retweet the Kamala is a cop t-shirts? Absolutely.
817
00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:23.059
Will that give something for Tucker Carlson to yell about?
818
00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:23.239
Yes.
819
00:43:23.619 --> 00:43:25.300
Will we also try to do the other thing and
820
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:27.500
pretend like she and Joe Biden are Antifa super soldiers? Yes,
821
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:30.030
we'll do that. Will we default to just dumb racism
822
00:43:30.050 --> 00:43:32.150
because we're dumb racists? Yes, we'll do that. But that's
823
00:43:32.190 --> 00:43:35.429
not how political campaigns work. And they have the same
824
00:43:35.449 --> 00:43:38.010
problem with Joe Biden that they have with Kamala Harris,
825
00:43:38.030 --> 00:43:41.809
which is they can't figure out one coherent, specific narrative,
826
00:43:41.849 --> 00:43:44.690
which Donald Trump, for all of his idiocy and flaws,
827
00:43:44.849 --> 00:43:47.530
actually had in 2016 when he was running against Hillary Clinton.
828
00:43:48.570 --> 00:43:52.179
Yeah, he at least landed there. Alyssa, Trump's calling Kamala
829
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:56.269
a nasty, mad woman. Tucker Carlson is purposely mispronouncing her name.
830
00:43:56.289 --> 00:43:59.730
We've got a few white right-wing whack jobs who are
831
00:43:59.789 --> 00:44:02.570
floating conspiracy that she's not American. We've got the return
832
00:44:02.590 --> 00:44:03.690
of birtherism here.
833
00:44:04.070 --> 00:44:09.690
Trump campaign officials, not like some fucking weird Reddit person.
834
00:44:09.710 --> 00:44:12.179
Whatever her name is, some fake lawyer that's his lawyer.
835
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:12.820
Jenna Ellis.
836
00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:16.539
Jenna Ellis, yeah. She said she's not American. Alyssa, how
837
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:19.039
should the Biden-Harris campaign, and the rest of us for
838
00:44:19.059 --> 00:44:22.849
that matter, handle this? the racism and sexism, some overt
839
00:44:22.949 --> 00:44:25.949
like this, some less so, some more subtle, that will
840
00:44:26.010 --> 00:44:28.829
obviously accompany this pick and already is accompanying this pick.
841
00:44:28.849 --> 00:44:31.469
First of all, he is no longer Tucker Carlson. He's
842
00:44:31.550 --> 00:44:34.570
Tooker Carlson until he learns how to pronounce her name.
843
00:44:35.659 --> 00:44:40.800
That's a rule on hysteria. That's not acceptable. Look, this
844
00:44:40.900 --> 00:44:44.199
is their game. This is all they have. Like Trump's,
845
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:47.840
I have to say, I was disappointed in Trump. I
846
00:44:47.860 --> 00:44:50.380
thought he was going to do better out the gate. Instead,
847
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:53.900
he was some basic bitch, had nothing good to offer,
848
00:44:54.030 --> 00:44:56.429
nothing colorful. Like I thought he would have had some
849
00:44:56.510 --> 00:45:01.889
good attacks, but like slow Joe and phony Kamala, like
850
00:45:02.289 --> 00:45:07.070
do better. And I think that this is their playbook.
851
00:45:07.110 --> 00:45:08.889
This is what they know to do. Since Donald Trump
852
00:45:09.170 --> 00:45:12.550
was the OG birther back in the day, this is,
853
00:45:13.050 --> 00:45:15.570
this is it. And it's just, you know, I really,
854
00:45:15.690 --> 00:45:17.829
I really do think, I know that everybody goes back
855
00:45:17.869 --> 00:45:20.449
and forth on like how you're supposed to reach out
856
00:45:20.469 --> 00:45:23.159
to voters. I just really think that Democrats shouldn't do
857
00:45:23.179 --> 00:45:26.579
the shows of racists on Fox News. Like there are
858
00:45:26.619 --> 00:45:28.340
some people who maybe aren't, but I mean, I just,
859
00:45:29.139 --> 00:45:30.840
everyone's got to stop. They have to be put in
860
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:33.039
a box because fuck that.
861
00:45:34.780 --> 00:45:35.340
Fuck Tuker.
862
00:45:35.380 --> 00:45:42.119
Fuck Tuker. And Sean Hannity. It's Tuker Carlson, Sean Hannity,
863
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:43.340
and Judge Pyro.
864
00:45:47.420 --> 00:45:50.320
So let's end by talking about what's next for Kamala.
865
00:45:50.340 --> 00:45:52.599
We got 82 days until the election. She's got a
866
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:55.440
convention speech next week. She's got a debate with Mike
867
00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:58.800
Pence in October. Dan, how important are those moments to
868
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:01.440
the overall campaign? What can she do to succeed? And
869
00:46:01.460 --> 00:46:02.840
what does she have to watch out for?
870
00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:05.829
Well, we talk all the time about how Joe Biden
871
00:46:05.929 --> 00:46:09.630
is relatively undefined to large segments of the voters who
872
00:46:09.690 --> 00:46:13.619
are going to decide this election. And that is exponentially
873
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:16.699
more true for Kamala Harris. So the speech on Wednesday
874
00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:20.820
night will be her last best opportunity, at least before
875
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:22.860
the debate, to define herself and tell her story to
876
00:46:22.889 --> 00:46:24.789
the American people. I imagine that speech is going to
877
00:46:24.849 --> 00:46:27.349
get a tremendous number of eyeballs, in part because people
878
00:46:27.989 --> 00:46:31.190
cannot leave their homes in most states. So I think
879
00:46:31.210 --> 00:46:35.909
it's a huge, huge, huge opportunity for her. The debate
880
00:46:35.949 --> 00:46:38.309
is something we should talk about, which is it has
881
00:46:38.349 --> 00:46:44.139
become sort of a favorite Twitter messaging strategy of Democrats
882
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:47.440
to raise expectations through the roof for Kamala Harris and
883
00:46:47.460 --> 00:46:51.840
the debate. And I think it's much more complex than that.
884
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:54.380
And so I think we should probably have that conversation
885
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:54.800
at some point.
886
00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:57.469
Alyssa, what do you think?
887
00:46:58.030 --> 00:47:01.329
No, I think that's true. I mean, my first text was,
888
00:47:01.409 --> 00:47:03.829
I couldn't wait to watch the debate. So I'm very
889
00:47:03.909 --> 00:47:05.510
much at fault on that one.
890
00:47:06.630 --> 00:47:07.929
But it's true. I mean, that's fine.
891
00:47:09.349 --> 00:47:12.329
Alyssa, that's fine for you to text someone in private.
892
00:47:12.389 --> 00:47:13.389
No, no, I tweeted it.
893
00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:17.179
I tweeted it.
894
00:47:17.619 --> 00:47:18.400
I know.
895
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:21.719
It was my initial reaction. I know it's so much
896
00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:24.269
more than that. But we can tell by when Mike
897
00:47:24.329 --> 00:47:26.570
Pence was asked the question and had to answer and
898
00:47:26.590 --> 00:47:29.280
nearly pooed his pants that he too was concerned about it.
899
00:47:30.510 --> 00:47:33.230
He did nearly poo his pants right on Tucker's show,
900
00:47:33.349 --> 00:47:35.349
or I think it was Sian's show. It was Sian.
901
00:47:35.530 --> 00:47:38.429
When he was asked that question about the debate. So, no, look,
902
00:47:38.530 --> 00:47:41.110
I get it. I totally understand it as the natural reaction.
903
00:47:41.429 --> 00:47:45.940
Kamala Harris, when you have seen her on the Judiciary Committee,
904
00:47:46.139 --> 00:47:49.480
in the Senate, grilling witnesses, you think, this is a
905
00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:52.239
person who's going to kick ass. She's just, she's great.
906
00:47:52.260 --> 00:47:56.329
She's a good debater. She's excellent at set pieces. But
907
00:47:56.389 --> 00:47:59.210
I do think, you know, there's obviously the silly expectation
908
00:47:59.269 --> 00:48:01.289
game that everyone plays in the press where you say
909
00:48:01.309 --> 00:48:03.329
that your candidate is terrible at debates and the other
910
00:48:03.349 --> 00:48:06.000
candidate is amazing, right? Like that's, that's what you do.
911
00:48:06.059 --> 00:48:08.960
But I think Mike Pence, I would not, I would
912
00:48:08.980 --> 00:48:12.940
not be surprised if Mike Pence walked into that debate
913
00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:17.070
and was very gracious to her when the debate started
914
00:48:17.239 --> 00:48:21.179
and said something about her history-making candidacy, right? And then
915
00:48:21.219 --> 00:48:24.420
sort of tore into her about, you know, the liberal
916
00:48:24.460 --> 00:48:27.480
policies of Biden and Harris and all that kind of stuff.
917
00:48:27.500 --> 00:48:30.260
Like he is not, he has, but the only thing
918
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:32.380
you can say about Mike Pence is he has slightly
919
00:48:32.420 --> 00:48:36.929
more discipline than Donald Trump. And he will have handlers
920
00:48:37.030 --> 00:48:39.309
and consultants who tell him like, you have to be
921
00:48:39.349 --> 00:48:42.260
very careful about debating Kamala Harris, and this is what
922
00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:44.780
you will need to do. And he will probably execute
923
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:46.719
on some of that. And so I just think that
924
00:48:46.780 --> 00:48:49.010
is something for people to be aware of as we
925
00:48:49.050 --> 00:48:49.590
think about that.
926
00:48:49.690 --> 00:48:52.670
And I'm sure that Donald Trump is whispering in Mike
927
00:48:52.690 --> 00:48:55.630
Pence's ear that unless he fucking gets COVID back under control,
928
00:48:55.929 --> 00:48:57.050
he may not make it to the debate.
929
00:48:59.329 --> 00:49:01.960
I mean, I think that is right about Pence. And
930
00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:04.940
I think people should go back and watch Pence's debate
931
00:49:04.980 --> 00:49:08.219
performance against Tim Kaine, where he was declared the winner
932
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:09.690
of You have to go back and watch it because
933
00:49:10.090 --> 00:49:11.889
no one remembers that it ever happened, but it did.
934
00:49:12.500 --> 00:49:15.139
And what Pence did was Tim Kaine, I think, was
935
00:49:15.380 --> 00:49:17.750
overcoached going into that debate that he had to be
936
00:49:17.889 --> 00:49:20.670
an attack dog. And it was not a position that
937
00:49:20.690 --> 00:49:23.590
was particularly comfortable for Tim Kaine. And Pence did not
938
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:30.699
take the bait. And that was seen by the figure
939
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:33.860
skating judges that decide these things as a victory. My
940
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:36.800
concern about the debate is not necessarily Pence's performance or
941
00:49:36.889 --> 00:49:39.889
Kamala Harris's performance. I have great confidence in Kamala Harris's performance.
942
00:49:41.070 --> 00:49:45.909
It is how it will be covered with a Black
943
00:49:45.949 --> 00:49:49.630
woman doing those things. And we know this from, you know,
944
00:49:49.670 --> 00:49:52.210
you were involved with Barack Obama's debate preps. There are
945
00:49:52.289 --> 00:49:56.869
certain tactics and moves that are treated one way when
946
00:49:56.909 --> 00:49:59.920
done by a white man that indifferent when done by
947
00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:00.989
a black man and doubly so.
948
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:03.739
Can't be angry. Can't be angry if you're a black person.
949
00:50:04.019 --> 00:50:06.460
Like some of the great moments in debate history, like
950
00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:10.639
if Barack Obama had done the, I know Jack Kennedy,
951
00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:13.079
he was a friend of mine, you know Jack Kennedy,
952
00:50:13.099 --> 00:50:14.820
would have been treated very differently than if Floyd Benson
953
00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:17.159
did it, right? If the, you know, the where's the
954
00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:19.440
beef line from Ronald Reagan be treated very differently if
955
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:22.869
Hillary Clinton had done it in 2016 or Kamala Harris
956
00:50:22.889 --> 00:50:24.150
were to do it right now. And so I think
957
00:50:24.710 --> 00:50:27.469
we know from within the context of a Democratic debate
958
00:50:27.769 --> 00:50:32.920
that the way women and candidates of color were covered
959
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:36.539
was very problematic. So that's going to be quadruply so
960
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:40.400
in a general election debate. And I think she will
961
00:50:40.420 --> 00:50:44.179
do incredibly well. I think it is incumbent upon everyone
962
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:48.869
to try to recognize the additional hurdles that the political
963
00:50:48.889 --> 00:50:51.960
conversation will put in the place of um, a black
964
00:50:52.019 --> 00:50:54.840
woman in that position and find the, and I don't
965
00:50:54.860 --> 00:50:56.409
have the right answers for this necessarily, but find ways
966
00:50:56.429 --> 00:50:59.750
to push back on that language and those tropes. And
967
00:50:59.769 --> 00:51:00.750
that's those stereotypes.
968
00:51:01.789 --> 00:51:05.889
No, I remember feeling very frustrated, uh, on behalf of
969
00:51:06.570 --> 00:51:09.820
Obama during a debate prep session. I think it was
970
00:51:10.199 --> 00:51:12.619
when he was preparing to debate Romney, when he was
971
00:51:12.659 --> 00:51:14.980
told to like, be more passionate, be more, you know,
972
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:17.500
show that you're, that you care that you're into this
973
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:21.420
and get angry, you know, and, He was reluctant to
974
00:51:21.460 --> 00:51:25.469
do that because as a black man, he believed that
975
00:51:25.510 --> 00:51:28.369
he couldn't show that kind of anger without a bunch
976
00:51:28.429 --> 00:51:32.809
of fucking racists out there sort of on Tugger Carlson's
977
00:51:32.849 --> 00:51:38.079
show saying that, you know, making stereotypes about this and
978
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:42.099
saying that he fits some stereotype. So no, it's something
979
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:44.199
that she has to navigate both as a woman and
980
00:51:44.219 --> 00:51:51.280
a woman of color, which is very tough. But I'm
981
00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:52.260
still excited for the debate, Alyssa.
982
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:52.760
Thank you.
983
00:51:52.780 --> 00:51:53.420
I want to see it too.
984
00:51:53.460 --> 00:51:55.920
I mean, honestly, it's like just the one thing to
985
00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:58.019
look forward to that we know is going to happen
986
00:51:58.059 --> 00:51:59.960
between now and Election Day, which I also think is
987
00:51:59.980 --> 00:52:03.679
why people gravitated towards it. It's like people aren't necessarily
988
00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:06.130
excited for the speech because they don't understand what's going
989
00:52:06.150 --> 00:52:08.690
to happen. We know kind of what could happen at
990
00:52:08.710 --> 00:52:11.329
the debate. I say defending myself as maybe the first
991
00:52:11.409 --> 00:52:13.849
person who actually tweeted the thing about the debate.
992
00:52:14.699 --> 00:52:17.840
Well, I mean, like to be like, yes, even though
993
00:52:17.860 --> 00:52:19.659
I said all the things, I'm still looking forward to it.
994
00:52:20.199 --> 00:52:23.820
This has been a dark few years in America. And
995
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:27.489
some of the rare moments of joy have been Kamala
996
00:52:27.510 --> 00:52:34.650
Harris destroying Bill Barr, Jeff Sessions, Brett Kavanaugh. Like those
997
00:52:34.690 --> 00:52:36.969
have been moments of light in a dark time. And
998
00:52:37.010 --> 00:52:40.659
so it is very understandable to be looking forward to
999
00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:43.579
it with Mike Pence, who is terrible.
1000
00:52:44.690 --> 00:52:50.559
Terrible. Boo. All right. Well, that's that. When we come back,
1001
00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:53.579
I will be joined by organizer and a co-founder of
1002
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:56.699
the Black Voters Matter Fund, friend of the pod, Latasha Brown.
1003
00:53:06.190 --> 00:53:09.230
I'm now joined by organizer and a co-founder of the
1004
00:53:09.269 --> 00:53:13.570
Black Voters Matter Fund, friend of the pod, LaTosha Brown. LaTosha,
1005
00:53:13.590 --> 00:53:14.750
thanks for coming back on the show.
1006
00:53:15.190 --> 00:53:17.119
Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.
1007
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:20.539
So you've been part of a coalition pushing Joe Biden
1008
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:22.820
to select a black woman as his running mate for months.
1009
00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:25.300
How did you find out that it would be Kamala
1010
00:53:25.340 --> 00:53:29.030
Harris and what was your initial reaction when the announcement
1011
00:53:29.050 --> 00:53:29.369
was made?
1012
00:53:29.909 --> 00:53:33.550
So I was actually, honestly, in my bathroom trying on
1013
00:53:33.610 --> 00:53:34.210
new makeup.
1014
00:53:34.349 --> 00:53:36.110
I know that's like I really was.
1015
00:53:36.130 --> 00:53:41.570
I was in my bathroom and I heard, and my
1016
00:53:41.610 --> 00:53:44.449
phone kept blowing up. And then I got this call
1017
00:53:44.929 --> 00:53:46.389
and it was like, we won. And I was like,
1018
00:53:46.409 --> 00:53:48.750
what does that mean? I don't know what that means, right?
1019
00:53:49.489 --> 00:53:52.010
And then I could hear my TV in my bedroom.
1020
00:53:52.929 --> 00:53:54.989
I could hear my TV said that he was selected.
1021
00:53:55.010 --> 00:53:56.610
It was like he selected Kamala Harris.
1022
00:53:56.650 --> 00:53:58.969
I was like, what? And so it was interesting.
1023
00:53:58.989 --> 00:54:01.090
At first, I got the call. I hung up and
1024
00:54:01.110 --> 00:54:02.690
I was like, oh, that's great. I was real calm
1025
00:54:02.730 --> 00:54:06.380
about it. And maybe in a matter of minutes, I
1026
00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:11.099
started crying. Like I did not anticipate on having that
1027
00:54:11.139 --> 00:54:14.920
kind of reaction. And I started crying and I and
1028
00:54:15.019 --> 00:54:19.019
I could only think about. At that moment, my grandmother,
1029
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:21.579
and it's so interesting because while my grandmother was a voter,
1030
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:26.300
she wasn't particularly like an activist. But I know this
1031
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:29.900
is a woman, and I share her story because she,
1032
00:54:30.099 --> 00:54:33.500
both of my grandmothers, one of my grandmothers was born
1033
00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:37.179
and grew up and grew a family in Mississippi, in Macomb, Mississippi,
1034
00:54:37.219 --> 00:54:43.380
was extremely active. Racist community, lived outside of Macomb and Summit, Mississippi.
1035
00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:46.559
And then my other grandmother grew up in Alabama, was
1036
00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:50.079
born in Alabama, and both of them were disenfranchised. That
1037
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:54.039
their families, that they themselves. And so it dawned on
1038
00:54:54.079 --> 00:55:00.179
me that I was the first woman in my family. Like,
1039
00:55:00.219 --> 00:55:02.699
here we are in 2020. I am the first woman
1040
00:55:02.969 --> 00:55:05.289
who was born where I had the right to vote,
1041
00:55:05.329 --> 00:55:07.929
that it was like I was enfranchised, right?
1042
00:55:08.250 --> 00:55:08.409
And.
1043
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:11.900
You know, I think it just stuck with me. It
1044
00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:15.300
really just kind of, it just took me a.
1045
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:15.920
Certain kind of way.
1046
00:55:15.940 --> 00:55:18.579
And so while I was excited about Kamala, I was
1047
00:55:18.739 --> 00:55:24.139
actually excited that we had, that there was a response
1048
00:55:24.179 --> 00:55:28.170
to what our request was made by Vice President Joe Biden.
1049
00:55:28.829 --> 00:55:33.309
More importantly, I felt such an overwhelming.
1050
00:55:34.170 --> 00:55:37.909
Sense of gratefulness to all the women who who had
1051
00:55:37.969 --> 00:55:41.909
been disenfranchised, who have been marginalized, who have been overlooked,
1052
00:55:42.389 --> 00:55:46.409
yet they still persisted that this moment was their moment,
1053
00:55:46.510 --> 00:55:49.730
that this moment wasn't the Democratic Party's moment, this moment
1054
00:55:49.769 --> 00:55:52.829
just wasn't the candidate's moment, but this was our collective moment.
1055
00:55:52.869 --> 00:55:56.340
And so I think I'm still working through that. I'm
1056
00:55:56.360 --> 00:55:59.199
feeling every emotion that you can feel I've felt in
1057
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:00.900
the course of this past week.
1058
00:56:02.199 --> 00:56:02.559
I bet.
1059
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:05.639
I mean, before we talk about what his selection means
1060
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:08.170
for the campaign- I just wanted to ask, and, you know,
1061
00:56:08.190 --> 00:56:10.230
you've talked about what it meant sort of in a
1062
00:56:10.269 --> 00:56:13.369
historical sense, but, you know, what does this mean to
1063
00:56:13.409 --> 00:56:14.849
you personally as a Black woman?
1064
00:56:15.429 --> 00:56:16.150
You know, just as a.
1065
00:56:16.150 --> 00:56:19.369
Black woman, I think it is disheartening that we are
1066
00:56:19.570 --> 00:56:20.250
always on the front.
1067
00:56:20.670 --> 00:56:25.550
I am working, John, with other women. Like, we are grinding.
1068
00:56:25.889 --> 00:56:28.769
So we're grinding on and on. Like, every year, year
1069
00:56:28.889 --> 00:56:31.949
in and year out, we grind because we know that
1070
00:56:31.989 --> 00:56:34.960
democracy is at stake. And we know that our families
1071
00:56:35.019 --> 00:56:37.590
are at stake. We know that America is in this
1072
00:56:37.849 --> 00:56:42.489
this precarious moment. And so, you know, in light of that,
1073
00:56:42.989 --> 00:56:45.849
to really be able. But year after year to see
1074
00:56:45.929 --> 00:56:49.730
black women get stepped over for congressional seats, to see
1075
00:56:49.789 --> 00:56:51.130
black women who run.
1076
00:56:50.969 --> 00:56:53.510
For office, including myself, I've run for office.
1077
00:56:53.570 --> 00:56:53.840
Right.
1078
00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:55.260
You know, and and.
1079
00:56:55.670 --> 00:56:58.159
To literally not get the kind of support that we
1080
00:56:58.179 --> 00:57:00.900
would see from our white counterparts, but oftentimes from our
1081
00:57:00.940 --> 00:57:05.329
male counterparts, right? To see us grossly underrepresented when it
1082
00:57:05.369 --> 00:57:08.719
comes to positions of power, But then when it comes
1083
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:10.539
to doing the work, you know who the majority of
1084
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:11.539
people I see doing the work?
1085
00:57:11.639 --> 00:57:12.389
I see women.
1086
00:57:12.860 --> 00:57:15.150
And so I think what this means for me and
1087
00:57:15.170 --> 00:57:18.769
I think what it means for me as an activist,
1088
00:57:18.869 --> 00:57:22.030
as an organizer, as a woman who has dedicated a
1089
00:57:22.050 --> 00:57:25.349
significant amount of my life doing work on terms of
1090
00:57:25.389 --> 00:57:29.480
building democracy, any time that I see that there is
1091
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:32.829
a new break, a ceiling break, It opens up the
1092
00:57:32.929 --> 00:57:37.400
just unlimited possibilities for those behind us. And so for me,
1093
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:40.440
I think that it was a great move by Vice
1094
00:57:40.460 --> 00:57:41.900
President Joe Biden.
1095
00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:43.300
You know, I really want to commend him and I
1096
00:57:43.340 --> 00:57:43.650
want to.
1097
00:57:43.610 --> 00:57:46.909
Lift him up on making that choice because I think
1098
00:57:46.949 --> 00:57:49.170
it sends a certain kind of message. I think it
1099
00:57:49.210 --> 00:57:54.510
sends a message around being a transformative leader. That ultimately
1100
00:57:54.570 --> 00:57:57.650
we have to have the courage to really recognize what
1101
00:57:57.690 --> 00:58:00.340
people are saying and really be able to respond to that.
1102
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:02.599
And so I think that he heard us. I think
1103
00:58:02.619 --> 00:58:04.780
he responded to us. You know, I think he made
1104
00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:07.000
the right choice. And I just want to lift that
1105
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:09.579
up because oftentimes our leaders don't listen to us.
1106
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:10.199
Right.
1107
00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:12.239
And don't really take into account what we're asking. The
1108
00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:13.880
second thing, though, is I think that he made a
1109
00:58:13.940 --> 00:58:16.699
good power move that nobody's going to work on the
1110
00:58:16.739 --> 00:58:18.760
ground for him like black women.
1111
00:58:18.820 --> 00:58:20.420
We are going we are grinding.
1112
00:58:20.460 --> 00:58:23.309
We the moment here, the moment that he announced it,
1113
00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:24.639
I was like, OK, I think I'm gonna get a
1114
00:58:24.699 --> 00:58:25.659
thousand tomorrow.
1115
00:58:26.059 --> 00:58:26.800
You know, like that.
1116
00:58:26.969 --> 00:58:31.030
Ultimately, you know, he I think ultimately that decision is
1117
00:58:31.409 --> 00:58:33.610
you know, really kind of inspired those of us that
1118
00:58:33.650 --> 00:58:36.889
are doing this work on the ground that literally around
1119
00:58:36.949 --> 00:58:39.760
lets us know that there is something different that is happening,
1120
00:58:40.010 --> 00:58:43.079
that there are new possibilities and new ground.
1121
00:58:43.179 --> 00:58:44.860
I think that's the second thing. And the third thing
1122
00:58:45.099 --> 00:58:46.639
is I think.
1123
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:51.400
America is, needs this right now. We need a ticket
1124
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:56.440
that is more representative, more reflective of the totality of America,
1125
00:58:56.820 --> 00:58:59.449
that we have not seen ourselves not in the office
1126
00:58:59.489 --> 00:59:02.050
of president or vice president. They've all been white men
1127
00:59:02.070 --> 00:59:05.750
with the exception of Barack Obama, right, who is still,
1128
00:59:06.090 --> 00:59:08.630
you know, a man. And when you look at the majority,
1129
00:59:08.710 --> 00:59:11.940
being that the majority of the country are 53% women,
1130
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.250
women have not been in any of those positions, although
1131
00:59:15.269 --> 00:59:15.989
we're the majority.
1132
00:59:17.010 --> 00:59:20.269
So over at FiveThirtyEight, the journalist Perry Bacon looked at
1133
00:59:20.289 --> 00:59:22.849
the data and wrote that while it's not crazy to
1134
00:59:23.239 --> 00:59:25.710
The idea that, you know, Harris might boost the ticket
1135
00:59:25.730 --> 00:59:28.030
with black voters. He thinks the stronger case is that
1136
00:59:28.070 --> 00:59:30.199
she won't have much of an effect on black turnout.
1137
00:59:30.500 --> 00:59:31.400
What do you think about that?
1138
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:32.940
I disagree with that.
1139
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:35.559
I disagree with that because I and I and I
1140
00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:38.199
also think that that inherent in that, too, we have
1141
00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:41.500
to unpack that because I think sometimes there's a racist
1142
00:59:41.980 --> 00:59:46.260
context around thinking that black people can only pull black voters.
1143
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:47.880
You know, at the end of the day, I think
1144
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:50.920
what Obama showed is that he was able to pull
1145
00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:55.960
a broad based, multiracial, multigenerational generation. coalition that supported him.
1146
00:59:56.039 --> 00:59:58.039
If we look at the Black Lives Matter for folks
1147
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:01.679
who had all this criticism about Black Lives Matter saying, oh,
1148
01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:04.090
that was divisive. The truth of the matter is that
1149
01:00:04.190 --> 01:00:08.190
movement gave birth to uprisings in all 50 states in
1150
01:00:08.230 --> 01:00:14.170
this country. The most diverse, multiracial, multigenerational, multicultural movement that
1151
01:00:14.190 --> 01:00:16.550
we've ever seen in this country. That because they are
1152
01:00:16.670 --> 01:00:19.840
leading from a place of truth, from their authentic voices,
1153
01:00:20.139 --> 01:00:23.880
that we recognize that when you break open oppression.
1154
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:25.909
For some of us, it opens it for all of us.
1155
01:00:25.940 --> 01:00:28.679
So I actually think that not only she's going to
1156
01:00:28.760 --> 01:00:31.909
energize and bring some Black voters together, to the ticket.
1157
01:00:31.929 --> 01:00:34.449
But I also think that she is going to energize women.
1158
01:00:34.809 --> 01:00:37.670
I also think that she's going to energize immigrants coming
1159
01:00:37.710 --> 01:00:40.420
that she has that, that her mother was an immigrant
1160
01:00:40.699 --> 01:00:43.340
and her parents were immigrants. I also think that she
1161
01:00:43.400 --> 01:00:46.719
is going to energize the Asian community that is often
1162
01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:49.389
also looked over as well. And I think that she's
1163
01:00:49.409 --> 01:00:53.530
going to energize smart people, smart, that literally want something
1164
01:00:53.610 --> 01:00:57.010
different and know that democracy is at stake. So I
1165
01:00:57.030 --> 01:01:01.550
don't relegate her that the only voters that she can
1166
01:01:01.590 --> 01:01:05.119
pull are Black voters. I certainly believe that there would
1167
01:01:05.139 --> 01:01:07.260
be a particular kind of level of excitement that I
1168
01:01:07.820 --> 01:01:11.400
myself personally feel and others that I'm talking to. But
1169
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:16.380
I also think that oftentimes women and Black candidates are
1170
01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:21.179
able to build these multicultural coalitions that can make the
1171
01:01:21.260 --> 01:01:23.079
difference in an election cycle.
1172
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:25.519
What do you think, if you were to advise them,
1173
01:01:26.179 --> 01:01:28.780
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris need to do going forward
1174
01:01:29.079 --> 01:01:31.579
to further energize voters to turn out this fall?
1175
01:01:31.860 --> 01:01:32.949
You know, I think a couple of things.
1176
01:01:32.989 --> 01:01:34.530
The first thing is I think that we need to
1177
01:01:34.570 --> 01:01:38.269
center the conversation of the election, not necessarily around the candidates.
1178
01:01:38.349 --> 01:01:42.110
I know that sounds counterintuitive, but I.
1179
01:01:42.070 --> 01:01:44.590
Do think that part of what has happened is that
1180
01:01:44.699 --> 01:01:47.820
we have created almost like this You know, in some ways,
1181
01:01:47.860 --> 01:01:49.800
I think like the savior syndrome that we're going to
1182
01:01:49.840 --> 01:01:52.699
find the absolute perfect candidate, you know, and the perfect
1183
01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:55.159
candidate is going to save us and take us on
1184
01:01:55.179 --> 01:01:56.900
to glory when that doesn't exist.
1185
01:01:57.000 --> 01:01:57.199
Right.
1186
01:01:57.239 --> 01:01:59.199
Let's just be honest. It doesn't exist. And I think
1187
01:01:59.659 --> 01:02:03.030
part of that has actually led to the erosion of democracy.
1188
01:02:03.349 --> 01:02:06.550
Where people don't see themselves empowered in the process because
1189
01:02:06.590 --> 01:02:09.010
it's all centered around the candidate. I think what we
1190
01:02:09.050 --> 01:02:11.769
have to do is actually center this around people's power,
1191
01:02:12.090 --> 01:02:16.960
that ultimately this is about us protecting democracy, that ultimately
1192
01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:19.860
that this is actually bigger than just the candidates. This
1193
01:02:19.900 --> 01:02:22.820
is even bigger than Trump, that ultimately this is really
1194
01:02:22.900 --> 01:02:25.400
about saving the soul of America and that all of
1195
01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:27.900
us have a responsibility in that. And so I think
1196
01:02:27.940 --> 01:02:32.010
that the message should not just be around taking Trump down.
1197
01:02:32.110 --> 01:02:35.289
I think the message has to be around one centering
1198
01:02:35.329 --> 01:02:38.969
that we are recentering and repositioning people in this country
1199
01:02:39.269 --> 01:02:41.989
so that the value of this country is actually her people.
1200
01:02:42.070 --> 01:02:44.449
The second thing is, I think we've got to center
1201
01:02:44.550 --> 01:02:47.579
on a message of the possibilities that not less like the,
1202
01:02:47.719 --> 01:02:50.500
like you can't stop at, we got to beat Trump, right?
1203
01:02:50.539 --> 01:02:53.159
Because it's not like we were in utopia before Trump
1204
01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:56.380
was in office, right? I think that what excites people is,
1205
01:02:56.699 --> 01:02:58.860
And I think that what folks are looking for, particularly
1206
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:01.300
young people that I'm talking to, they're looking for something
1207
01:03:01.579 --> 01:03:04.670
very different, right? And so I often say, what is
1208
01:03:04.690 --> 01:03:09.110
your radical reimagining of America? That we actually have to
1209
01:03:09.210 --> 01:03:12.070
push that there is a vision to go beyond where
1210
01:03:12.110 --> 01:03:15.389
we've been to address with some of the damage that
1211
01:03:15.409 --> 01:03:15.889
has happened.
1212
01:03:16.110 --> 01:03:18.230
But to actually take things forward. I think the other
1213
01:03:18.389 --> 01:03:19.369
two points that I.
1214
01:03:19.349 --> 01:03:22.590
Would make is, One, we are in a we cannot
1215
01:03:22.659 --> 01:03:26.039
continue to step over race. And it is not enough
1216
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:29.099
that there's just a there's a black woman that is
1217
01:03:29.380 --> 01:03:32.659
on the ticket. I think I certainly I think representation matters.
1218
01:03:32.929 --> 01:03:35.889
But we've got to we've got to lean in and
1219
01:03:36.010 --> 01:03:38.489
deal with structural racism in this country.
1220
01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:40.510
And every aspect of it.
1221
01:03:40.539 --> 01:03:42.699
And so I think that the campaign should not shy
1222
01:03:42.739 --> 01:03:45.380
away from that, right? Even though we know Trump is
1223
01:03:45.699 --> 01:03:49.230
doing the white racist nationalist rally cry, right?
1224
01:03:49.329 --> 01:03:51.590
I think it is more of us. And I mean,
1225
01:03:51.610 --> 01:03:54.190
when I mean us, I mean there are more people of.
1226
01:03:54.150 --> 01:03:57.989
Goodwill who want to see America that we all imagine
1227
01:03:58.030 --> 01:04:01.920
that is inclusive, that is just, and is democratic. And
1228
01:04:01.980 --> 01:04:04.260
so I think they need to lean into that and
1229
01:04:04.380 --> 01:04:08.380
speak to the challenges and to speak to the need
1230
01:04:08.420 --> 01:04:11.949
for us to deal with uproot structural racism. And then
1231
01:04:11.969 --> 01:04:15.389
the fourth thing that I think is really important is
1232
01:04:15.429 --> 01:04:18.469
that we have got to really be able to not
1233
01:04:18.489 --> 01:04:21.730
just step over what is happening with COVID-19. And we've
1234
01:04:21.769 --> 01:04:25.400
got to deal with issues of poverty and working class folks.
1235
01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:29.340
that oftentimes when these conversations get on the national level,
1236
01:04:29.820 --> 01:04:31.719
what you hear is you hear a lot of conversation
1237
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:33.909
about protecting and saving the middle class.
1238
01:04:34.510 --> 01:04:37.610
And while I support that and find myself.
1239
01:04:37.349 --> 01:04:41.500
As one person among them, Among that group that ultimately
1240
01:04:41.820 --> 01:04:45.679
we have to recognize that all of us make America right.
1241
01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:48.360
All of us deserve to really be able to get
1242
01:04:48.380 --> 01:04:51.099
the opportunities that the purpose of most of us that
1243
01:04:51.139 --> 01:04:54.639
were that are now attach ourselves better black or white
1244
01:04:54.730 --> 01:04:57.489
or Asian in the middle class that many of our
1245
01:04:57.570 --> 01:05:00.570
families were not in the middle class, but there were programs.
1246
01:05:00.980 --> 01:05:03.800
from the New Deal on that actually focused on how
1247
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:07.400
to lift poor people that created the middle class. And
1248
01:05:07.460 --> 01:05:10.059
somehow we've forgotten that. And so I think we still
1249
01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:13.099
need that kind of level of conversation too, that this
1250
01:05:13.139 --> 01:05:16.909
conversation just doesn't get stuck in the middle class and
1251
01:05:16.929 --> 01:05:19.469
the upper class, but that we actually have a message
1252
01:05:19.510 --> 01:05:23.230
specifically for the working poor and poor people who have
1253
01:05:23.329 --> 01:05:25.550
not benefited from the wealth of this country.
1254
01:05:26.929 --> 01:05:29.710
So you spend most of your time On the ground
1255
01:05:29.750 --> 01:05:33.530
talking to voters. As you know, because you've graciously participated
1256
01:05:33.570 --> 01:05:36.469
in our Vote Save America trainings, we have thousands of
1257
01:05:36.530 --> 01:05:38.400
organizers who will be talking to voters over the next
1258
01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:38.699
few months.
1259
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:40.500
Which, John, I just want to tell you is amazing.
1260
01:05:40.659 --> 01:05:42.099
I just, I hate to cut you off.
1261
01:05:42.139 --> 01:05:43.420
You were amazing.
1262
01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:46.400
I'm like, y'all got 17,000 people on here organizing.
1263
01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:49.940
I'm like, this is like organizers goldmine. This is like,
1264
01:05:50.139 --> 01:05:52.659
I'm not going to organize a heaven. But anyway.
1265
01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:55.849
Well, you were the biggest hit of all the trainings.
1266
01:05:55.929 --> 01:05:58.480
People were going crazy. So you really pumped everyone up.
1267
01:05:59.340 --> 01:06:03.440
What's your advice to organizers when they encounter voters, particularly
1268
01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:06.260
maybe young voters or voters who haven't been involved in
1269
01:06:06.280 --> 01:06:08.000
the process a lot or maybe haven't voted in a
1270
01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:10.659
few elections who say, I don't know that Joe Biden
1271
01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:13.510
is progressive enough or I have a problem with Kamala
1272
01:06:13.530 --> 01:06:16.130
Harris's record as a prosecutor and they're just not sure.
1273
01:06:16.349 --> 01:06:17.630
What's your message to those voters?
1274
01:06:18.130 --> 01:06:22.489
To listen. And I'm serious. To listen.
1275
01:06:23.090 --> 01:06:26.289
That oftentimes what I have found is that we're so
1276
01:06:26.329 --> 01:06:29.960
busy trying to evangelize people that we're not hearing them.
1277
01:06:30.579 --> 01:06:33.219
That oftentimes when people come up to us, we tell
1278
01:06:33.300 --> 01:06:36.099
folks that we don't meet people that's apathetic. I've never
1279
01:06:36.159 --> 01:06:38.679
met a person that just didn't care about anything.
1280
01:06:39.099 --> 01:06:39.380
Right.
1281
01:06:39.559 --> 01:06:40.059
I didn't.
1282
01:06:40.940 --> 01:06:44.610
I've met people who are frustrated with the process, don't
1283
01:06:44.670 --> 01:06:48.829
see themselves in the process, don't feel recognized, valued or
1284
01:06:48.969 --> 01:06:51.510
listened to. And so part of what we do when
1285
01:06:51.590 --> 01:06:54.750
people say that, when we run across a voter, a person,
1286
01:06:54.769 --> 01:06:55.989
they say, well, I don't want to vote because I
1287
01:06:56.010 --> 01:06:58.849
don't think that it matters. And we actually acknowledge them. Well,
1288
01:06:58.889 --> 01:06:59.769
why do you feel that way?
1289
01:07:00.219 --> 01:07:00.400
Right.
1290
01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:02.420
And they start to tell us and we ask, well,
1291
01:07:02.460 --> 01:07:04.849
what do you care about? We don't start talking about
1292
01:07:04.889 --> 01:07:06.750
voting or, well, you need to vote because X, Y, Z.
1293
01:07:06.769 --> 01:07:07.590
What do you care about?
1294
01:07:07.969 --> 01:07:10.570
And then once you engage in that conversation and they
1295
01:07:10.590 --> 01:07:13.170
start sharing what they care about, then you can start
1296
01:07:13.210 --> 01:07:15.769
helping them to make the connection of how voting could
1297
01:07:15.809 --> 01:07:18.739
possibly be one of the tools to actually impact that
1298
01:07:18.780 --> 01:07:21.500
what they care about. And so it becomes a conversation
1299
01:07:21.519 --> 01:07:24.820
that's really being informed and. that it centers them, what
1300
01:07:24.900 --> 01:07:27.679
they desire, what they need, and it comes from, and
1301
01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:30.300
they know that you are listening to them. And so
1302
01:07:30.429 --> 01:07:32.250
even in the process when they say, well, I voted
1303
01:07:32.269 --> 01:07:33.869
and I haven't seen any change, I don't argue.
1304
01:07:33.889 --> 01:07:35.849
I was like, you know what? I feel that way too.
1305
01:07:36.170 --> 01:07:38.789
There's oftentimes I feel that way. You're right. You're not crazy.
1306
01:07:39.150 --> 01:07:42.150
Like I affirm you that yes, not only have I
1307
01:07:42.190 --> 01:07:43.360
felt that way, but I've seen that.
1308
01:07:43.909 --> 01:07:45.989
But I don't want it to continue to be that way.
1309
01:07:46.050 --> 01:07:49.670
And so this is what I do to actually make
1310
01:07:49.710 --> 01:07:52.340
it change. And so I think that part of what
1311
01:07:52.380 --> 01:07:54.099
we have to do, if we want to see a
1312
01:07:54.199 --> 01:07:58.000
robust democracy, we have to have the orientation and shift
1313
01:07:58.019 --> 01:08:01.880
the paradigm of how we're engaging people in the conversation.
1314
01:08:02.260 --> 01:08:05.610
We engage people in the conversation like the only thing
1315
01:08:05.639 --> 01:08:08.369
that matters and the only time they matter is if
1316
01:08:08.409 --> 01:08:11.199
they participate in this system. The truth of the matter
1317
01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:14.119
is we should start with the conversation is that you
1318
01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:17.590
matter regardless. You matter because God created you that you
1319
01:08:17.670 --> 01:08:20.930
are a living human being and you have value. And
1320
01:08:20.970 --> 01:08:23.390
to the extent that we see that and recognize and
1321
01:08:23.449 --> 01:08:26.069
hear that, let's talk about what it is that your
1322
01:08:26.130 --> 01:08:27.310
vision is for your life.
1323
01:08:27.390 --> 01:08:28.449
What is it that you want to see?
1324
01:08:29.050 --> 01:08:32.289
And then we back into voting could possibly be a
1325
01:08:32.369 --> 01:08:36.130
tool that can actually help you. If someone says, well,
1326
01:08:36.170 --> 01:08:38.470
I'm tired of police and I don't want to see
1327
01:08:38.510 --> 01:08:41.840
police brutality, do you know how a police chief is elected,
1328
01:08:42.100 --> 01:08:46.079
is in power? And then we talk through the process. Oftentimes,
1329
01:08:46.380 --> 01:08:48.899
nine times out of ten, I always tell people I've
1330
01:08:48.939 --> 01:08:51.630
never lost a voter. I'm just like, at the end
1331
01:08:51.670 --> 01:08:56.109
of the day, right, but I've also never forced an
1332
01:08:56.670 --> 01:09:00.039
untrue and a false frame on people. That when people
1333
01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:03.539
are saying they don't trust the system, I understand because
1334
01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:05.880
there are times that I don't trust the system either.
1335
01:09:06.199 --> 01:09:09.760
That when people are saying that they feel like there
1336
01:09:09.779 --> 01:09:12.920
are things that don't matter when they vote, I felt
1337
01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:15.039
like that. And if we're all honest, we've all felt
1338
01:09:15.060 --> 01:09:17.880
that way. So we have to actually help people have
1339
01:09:17.939 --> 01:09:21.670
an authentic conversation for people to really understand that we
1340
01:09:21.750 --> 01:09:26.289
recognize the limitations of voting, but we also recognize its power.
1341
01:09:27.590 --> 01:09:30.939
So Donald Trump this morning openly admitted that he's sabotaging
1342
01:09:30.949 --> 01:09:34.100
the mail in order to stop us from voting. And
1343
01:09:34.140 --> 01:09:35.960
I saw a lot of folks on Twitter, people were
1344
01:09:36.300 --> 01:09:40.100
coming to me and saying, I'm terrified. I'm feeling pretty
1345
01:09:40.140 --> 01:09:43.300
helpless and powerless right now. What's the use of all
1346
01:09:43.340 --> 01:09:45.260
this hard work if he's just going to cheat? And
1347
01:09:45.539 --> 01:09:47.560
how do we fight this? He's going to steal the election.
1348
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:50.829
What's your advice to these people who you know, watch
1349
01:09:50.850 --> 01:09:52.609
Donald Trump doing this kind of stuff and are just
1350
01:09:52.750 --> 01:09:55.810
terrified about what's going to happen in November.
1351
01:09:56.390 --> 01:09:59.510
Well, the first thing I did right was the day
1352
01:09:59.670 --> 01:10:01.109
I started to fight.
1353
01:10:01.489 --> 01:10:06.880
Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on, hold on.
1354
01:10:07.319 --> 01:10:08.920
I just wanted to start with that because at the
1355
01:10:09.060 --> 01:10:11.560
end of the day, I love it that you.
1356
01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:15.550
Have to really get centered around keeping your eyes on
1357
01:10:15.569 --> 01:10:18.789
the prize. That Black people in this country, we have
1358
01:10:18.850 --> 01:10:21.310
never been given the time or the space to be tired.
1359
01:10:21.609 --> 01:10:24.470
That we have fought for our very existence from the
1360
01:10:24.510 --> 01:10:26.489
time that we were brought over here in slave ships.
1361
01:10:26.810 --> 01:10:29.720
That there are folks in my family that literally are
1362
01:10:29.779 --> 01:10:33.520
living right now that were sharecroppers picking cotton, yet they
1363
01:10:33.560 --> 01:10:37.460
still persisted. That ultimately, if this nation is going to change,
1364
01:10:37.840 --> 01:10:40.359
we've got to change it. And this is a moment,
1365
01:10:40.380 --> 01:10:42.039
we have to know what moment we're in. And so
1366
01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:45.109
I understand when they're saying they're tired. Lord knows I understand.
1367
01:10:45.350 --> 01:10:47.930
Do you think I want to talk about racism? Imagine
1368
01:10:48.029 --> 01:10:50.229
I'm tired of talking about racism. Imagine how I feel
1369
01:10:50.270 --> 01:10:51.090
about dealing with it.
1370
01:10:51.550 --> 01:10:52.090
I don't, right?
1371
01:10:52.109 --> 01:10:55.439
And so at the end of the day, like, But
1372
01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:59.899
I have no choice because ultimately I believe that I
1373
01:10:59.939 --> 01:11:03.520
can co-create the kind of environment, the kind of nation
1374
01:11:03.539 --> 01:11:04.520
that we deserve.
1375
01:11:04.899 --> 01:11:06.640
And that's what I have to tap into.
1376
01:11:06.979 --> 01:11:09.119
When my body is tired, I have to tap into
1377
01:11:09.159 --> 01:11:12.310
that spirit that led to like those folks singing, those
1378
01:11:12.390 --> 01:11:15.430
people like John, Representative John Lewis and C.T.
1379
01:11:15.449 --> 01:11:17.689
Vivian, Amelia Boynton on that.
1380
01:11:17.609 --> 01:11:19.930
Bridge that did not have government. You talk about Trump.
1381
01:11:20.869 --> 01:11:23.069
Trump is one thing. These are people that didn't have
1382
01:11:23.130 --> 01:11:27.270
government on their side, that were actually beaten in front
1383
01:11:27.310 --> 01:11:29.739
of us and marginalized.
1384
01:11:30.020 --> 01:11:33.819
And for the most part, racism, that was the flavor
1385
01:11:33.859 --> 01:11:35.520
of the day, openly.
1386
01:11:35.819 --> 01:11:39.569
And so my point is, we don't have the privilege—
1387
01:11:40.159 --> 01:11:43.520
to say that I am tired and I don't work. That, yes,
1388
01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:45.939
we will acknowledge that this is a pretty tough time.
1389
01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:47.859
But the only thing that I can say, and I
1390
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:50.640
often use this example, is that, you know, the way
1391
01:11:50.659 --> 01:11:53.819
that diamonds are made, John? Diamonds are made, all a
1392
01:11:53.859 --> 01:11:56.270
diamond is is a piece of coal. It is a
1393
01:11:56.319 --> 01:12:00.250
piece of coal that under extreme pressure over a period
1394
01:12:00.289 --> 01:12:03.539
of time became a diamond. And how do we know
1395
01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:06.899
a diamond between the cold? A diamond creates clarity. The
1396
01:12:06.979 --> 01:12:10.609
value of a diamond increases with the amount of clarity
1397
01:12:10.630 --> 01:12:11.170
that it has.
1398
01:12:11.609 --> 01:12:13.210
And so what I am saying is in.
1399
01:12:13.189 --> 01:12:16.329
This moment of extreme pressure, what we need to be
1400
01:12:16.770 --> 01:12:18.859
focused on is getting clarity.
1401
01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:19.739
We got to get clear.
1402
01:12:20.140 --> 01:12:22.319
We got to get clarity around why we've got to
1403
01:12:22.460 --> 01:12:26.579
eliminate sexism and racism and homophobia and all those forms
1404
01:12:26.640 --> 01:12:29.800
of oppression that keep us from being our greatest selves.
1405
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:30.359
Right.
1406
01:12:30.539 --> 01:12:33.680
We have to literally find a way to do this
1407
01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:36.930
a more excellent way. that we are actually centering the
1408
01:12:37.010 --> 01:12:40.789
value of human life over every single system. And to
1409
01:12:40.829 --> 01:12:44.130
the extent that systems are not honoring that, those systems
1410
01:12:44.170 --> 01:12:46.649
must be replaced, reformed, or abolished.
1411
01:12:46.949 --> 01:12:49.609
And I got that from the U.S. Constitution.
1412
01:12:51.260 --> 01:12:55.180
Latasha Brown, you are incredible. You are incredible. Please come
1413
01:12:55.220 --> 01:12:56.579
back like every week and give us.
1414
01:12:56.539 --> 01:12:57.300
A pep talk here.
1415
01:12:57.619 --> 01:13:00.359
I think we'll all do a lot better. Thank you
1416
01:13:00.510 --> 01:13:02.319
so much for joining. Thank you for all the work
1417
01:13:02.359 --> 01:13:05.550
you're doing. You were fantastic. I appreciate your time.
1418
01:13:05.750 --> 01:13:07.029
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
1419
01:13:12.970 --> 01:13:14.430
Alyssa, thanks for joining us today.
1420
01:13:14.449 --> 01:13:15.170
That was fun.
1421
01:13:15.390 --> 01:13:17.649
Thank you. Thank you both for having me today.
1422
01:13:17.689 --> 01:13:18.109
You're welcome.
1423
01:13:18.470 --> 01:13:21.090
On this final episode. If that's the ticket.
1424
01:13:21.569 --> 01:13:24.029
Maybe we can have you on again before the election, John.
1425
01:13:25.409 --> 01:13:26.899
That would be lovely.
1426
01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:28.039
I'm available.
1427
01:13:28.640 --> 01:13:29.479
Talk to everyone.
1428
01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:30.479
Bye.
1429
01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:39.479
Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
1430
01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:43.180
producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller.
1431
01:13:43.699 --> 01:13:46.899
It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
1432
01:13:46.939 --> 01:13:51.800
our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
1433
01:13:52.119 --> 01:13:55.340
Caroline Reston, and Elisa Gutierrez for production support. And to
1434
01:13:55.380 --> 01:13:59.140
our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed, and
1435
01:13:59.180 --> 01:14:02.310
Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
1436
01:14:02.510 --> 01:14:02.869
every week.