WEBVTT
00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:02.160
Welcome, my friends.
00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:14.880
This is Ask Ashley, the segment of Planning and Beyond, where advisors send me, Ashley, questions that don't quite have a technical answer, but certainly a human component behind it.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:23.120
Okay, our first one today is how do I handle things when a couple is disagreeing about money in my office?
00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:27.199
Ooh, this is juicy and I don't want to waste any time here.
00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:29.440
So let's get into it.
00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:39.359
When advisors, when they ask me this question, what I really hear are actually three different questions that they're asking.
00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:46.960
And the three different questions are how do I stay in charge of this meeting without taking a side?
00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:52.399
How do I keep this from damaging my relationship with each of the clients?
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:54.719
And is this even my job?
00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:59.359
So I want to, I'll quickly just kind of speak to this last one here.
00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:18.159
When I talk to advisors about handling conflict, um, handling disagreements between uh partners within a coupleship, for many, there is a fear underneath, which is if I engage with this couple, if I engage with this conflict, am I stepping outside of my lane?
00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:21.599
Simultaneously, I think there's also this other question.
00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:28.400
And that is, if I don't engage with it, am I failing them somehow?
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:30.879
And here's maybe what I would like to say.
00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:37.680
If you are an advisor who feels that tug and pull between, am I stepping outside of my lane?
00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:40.560
Or if I don't do this, am I failing them?
00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:42.640
That you are completely normal.
00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:47.359
I think that this is an incredibly difficult space for advisors to be living in.
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:50.239
But it is definitely one that happens.
00:01:50.400 --> 00:02:01.359
And so from my perspective, I do not think that by stepping into conflict with a couple that you are playing the role of therapist.
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:03.920
I think that you are just doing your job.
00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:11.280
I think asking questions, I think navigating hard moments, um, guiding them through and to maybe a decision.
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:14.560
That's part of being a financial planner.
00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:16.719
It's part of being an advisor.
00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:22.319
And it's not whether you choose to engage in the conflict that matters.
00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.000
It's how you do it.
00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:36.400
And so today we're gonna get into a little bit deeper the how part, where hopefully you feel a little bit more confident when it comes to conflict showing up in your office or virtually in one of your meetings.
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:41.520
Okay, that first question I posed the how do I stay in charge of this meeting without taking a side?
00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:59.280
Taking sides is probably, well, I'm not gonna say it's the worst because that would be, you know, I'm not quite sure how true that is, but it would be really, really bad if you were to take sides with a partner when there is active conflict going on.
00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:08.560
The way that you stay in charge of a meeting when there's conflict is by changing what the conversation is about, right?
00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:16.719
Let's move away from deciding who is right and let's move towards what is actually going on here.
00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:28.000
I find that in couples get caught in this, but certainly as practitioners, um, financial advisors get get stuck in this place of focusing too much on the content, right?
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:32.639
They focus too much on, okay, what is the couple actually arguing about?
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:34.719
Are they arguing about the retirement?
00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:39.599
Are they arguing about spending the 529, the boat, the credit card, right?
00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.159
These are all content pieces that can keep us stuck.
00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.080
And it makes sense, right?
00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:48.639
Because it's the thing that couples are saying, right?
00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:50.560
It's the thing that they're talking about.
00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:52.639
But process, right?
00:03:52.879 --> 00:04:02.960
How they are arguing, the process in which they're arguing, who's pursuing who, who shuts down, who's name-calling, who's making weird sounds that really display contempt, right?
00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:05.599
You guys know the person that does the huh, right?
00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:09.919
The grunt, grunting Gary in the meetings, that's all part of process.
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:19.519
And so if we're gonna look at how do I stay in charge of this meeting without taking a side, we need to move away from content, what they are actually arguing about.
00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:24.079
And we need to focus more on how they are arguing.
00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:31.759
So, what I mean by that is if you have a couple and let's say they're they're there's conflict about spending, right?
00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:32.560
Classic.
00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:38.959
Okay, the partner that is getting animated, um, we'll say animated.
00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.720
The partner that's getting really animated, that's getting heated, right?
00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:44.319
How are they displaying that?
00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:45.680
Are they name-calling?
00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:47.839
Are they talking really quickly?
00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.199
Are they escalating the conversation, right?
00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.279
That's important to pay attention to.
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.279
The same on the same side, right?
00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:56.399
The other partner, right?
00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:57.279
Are they withdrawing?
00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:58.720
Are they going quiet, right?
00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.800
Those are all important pieces to to to pay attention to as well.
00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:08.639
And so if we're gonna not take sides in this moment, we need to change the conversation and what it's about.
00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:21.279
And one way of moving from content to process is by being an active participant in the meeting, interrupting what's happening and naming what is going on.
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.920
So here's kind of what I mean when I say it, when I say all of that.
00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:32.639
For those of you who have not maybe heard me talk before about being an active participant.
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:42.720
Um, when I say being active participant, I mean you can't just sit there and watch what is happening uh unfold in front of you.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.319
You have to be like in the meeting.
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:51.680
When I was doing supervision with pre-licensed clinicians, like I would demonstrate this like in my chair.
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.160
And I would sit kind of on the edge of my chair.
00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.319
I would lean forward, I would have like my hands out, just kind of like this.
00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:07.040
For those of you that are listening on audio, you can't see my hands, but I would have my hands kind of out as if um to kind of welcome, right?
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:09.680
But also balance um the partners.
00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:15.839
Like I was active in the meeting, not just in terms of what I was saying, but in my body language.
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.399
You have to be active as a planner.
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:26.480
And for those of you that are doing virtual meetings, there's a way that you can also do this um on the screen and being active with your body language.
00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.040
You have to also be active with your words.
00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:41.839
And if we're going to move and shift from content to process, if we're gonna move away from who's right, who's wrong, you've got to be willing to be actively engaged in the conversation.
00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:46.399
That might also mean that you need to interrupt.
00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:55.360
Now, this is probably the thing that I hear advisors say makes them so uncomfortable is interrupting a client.
00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:15.839
But I can assure you that once you practice it and learn how to do it correctly, then it can be a powerful, powerful way to change the conversation from content and conflict to process and connection.
00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:23.759
So here are a few maybe ways that I interrupt when I look at interrupting a couple.
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:31.360
First and foremost, I actually tell my couples that if conflict comes up, I am going to interrupt them.
00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.439
And I actually do this at the very beginning.
00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:46.160
So if I were to back up a little bit, one of the best things that you can do for yourself if you work with couples is to have some sort of a, you know, it can be brief.
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:52.800
It doesn't have to be long-winded, but you know, expectation setting up front early on in the relationship.
00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.759
Um, I used to do this in my very first meeting.
00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.079
And you can set the tone for how conflict is gonna be handled.
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:10.800
You could say something like, you know, one thing I want to say is that in these meetings, the two of you are probably gonna disagree about something at some point.
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:13.920
And I want you to know that that's completely normal.
00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:21.279
And sometimes it is incredibly useful because it usually means that we found the thing that actually matters most.
00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:25.759
When that happens, when you guys get a little hot, right?
00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:32.799
When things start to heat up, when there is tension, disagreement, or conflict, I am not going to referee it.
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:38.960
I am, however, going to slow us down to make sure that I understand both of you.
00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:44.000
And that may come across as me interrupting you in the moment.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:50.720
I want you to know this up front because for some people, it may come a bit of a surprise.
00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:59.519
But I want you to know that I am doing this from a place of really trying to make sure that we are staying focused on what truly matters.
00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.279
That was a little long-winded.
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:09.039
You can find your own script, but that is how I talk about how conflict will be handled from the get-go.
00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:17.679
Now, going back to, okay, how do we interrupt maybe the client when conflict starts to happen?
00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:27.600
Um, you can say something like, hey, I just want to pause us right here for a second because I think something important just happened.
00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:32.399
Or you could say something like, Can I stop us?
00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:38.720
Not because anything is wrong, but because I don't want to lose what just came up.
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.240
Would that be okay?
00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:50.720
Those are two fantastic ways to interrupt not just the people, but we're interrupting the content, right?
00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.320
Going back to we want to move away from content, right?
00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.000
We want to get out of that place.
00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:02.240
This is how we, you know, make sure that we're not picking sides right here, is we want to interrupt the content, right?
00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:10.720
And so interrupting in that way, it's interrupting the what is being talked about without telling someone, hey, can you be quiet for a second?
00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:14.399
Um, so that I can, you know, hear what this other person has to say.
00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.919
It's not making one client the problem, right?
00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:24.240
We've just shifted the conversation in such a way to reducing the tension.
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.559
Hopefully, it allows, you know, breath to kind of be taken.
00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:34.320
Um, but it also then allows you to get in and to really focus on what matters most.
00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:42.080
Okay, if we're going to also work on not taking sides, you know, I said we need to be an active participant.
00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.240
We need to move away from content.
00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:47.200
Um, that might include interrupting.
00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:56.399
The last piece that I'll say for this one is that I think it's also important that we make the covert overt.
00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:59.120
Sorry, I have to think about that every time that I say it.
00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.919
We have to make the covert overt.
00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:07.600
And what I mean by that is naming what you see, naming what you observe, right?
00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:09.679
Call it out, say it out loud.
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.240
Here's a way that you can do that.
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:18.799
I notice that every time we get to the retirement date, the energy in the room shifts.
00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:20.639
Am I reading that right?
00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:28.159
When you make something explicitly overt, like tension, right?
00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.440
Like when we say, hey, I'm noticing that this happens.
00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.600
Am I getting it right?
00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:39.679
You're giving permission for the couple to be able to talk about the thing, the problem.
00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.440
You're you're giving them that sense of, hey, it's okay.
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:44.960
I can handle this.
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.200
We can have this conversation.
00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:57.600
There's a real sense of relief that clients can feel knowing that, okay, my advisor, like we can talk about something that's hard and they can handle it.
00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:00.080
Like they're picking up on this, they're noticing that.
00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:04.960
There's a real sense of relief and connectedness that can come up in that place.
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:10.960
Clients actually will learn to trust you more by naming that out loud in a gentle way, right?
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:18.639
We don't want to call them out in a way that's rude and always asking, am I getting, am I getting this right?
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:30.720
Okay, so let's move on to that second question that I talked about, which was making sure that we are, you know, not um losing trust with the clients.
00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:33.200
How do we not damage the relationship there?
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:40.159
Now, a few of the things that I just shared are certainly ways that you can build relationship equity with them.
00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:46.080
That one that I just mentioned, I won't reiterate it, uh, but it's a way that you can build trust.
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:54.559
I think that it's important to remember when we look at how do we not damage the relationship with one or with both?
00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:08.879
The important thing to remember here is that when clients leave a meeting, especially if there is conflict, they want to know that at the end of the day they were understood and that they were heard.
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:14.320
And so, how can we structure for you conversationally?
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:23.279
How can we structure your position and what you say in such a way that both partners feel understood and they feel heard?
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.000
Now, there's a few things that come to mind here.
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:34.480
One is validation, making sure that you validate and say, hey, I completely understand where it is that you're coming from.
00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.120
That makes a lot of sense to me.
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.519
Being able to reflect back what it is that they say.
00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:55.759
Um, and so we talk about reflection, you know, as not just repeating back like word for word, but saying something like, so what I'm hearing is that this is not really about whether we spend$40,000.
00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:01.440
It's about wanting to know if something happened to you, she would be okay.
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:02.960
Do I have that right?
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:08.000
We want to make sure that when we're reflecting, we're also, you know, we're not just parroting, right?
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.159
We're reflecting back the meaning here.
00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:28.399
And so protecting the relationship, you know, not causing further damage if we're engaging in conflict, you know, validating each partner's position, reflecting back what it is that you're hearing is a way that you can ensure that the client feels seen, that they feel heard, and that they feel understood.
00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:40.960
Now, a caveat here is that I understand for some, when we validate, it might feel like you are agreeing with what the client is saying.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:54.240
Please hear me that just because you validate someone's position, just because you validate and say, I understand why it is that you think the way that you think or have come to make this decision does not mean that you agree with it.
00:14:54.399 --> 00:15:07.840
Trust me, there have been countless times that people, clients, couples, partners, they have told me things that I can understand why they have come to that place and feeling this way or making this decision.
00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.320
And also, that's not a great look for them.
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:11.519
It's not a great idea.
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:12.399
It's not healthy.
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:16.559
I can understand it, but I don't maybe agree with how they handled something.
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.519
So those two are not the same thing.
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:23.360
Okay, let's talk about is this really your job?
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:23.759
Right?
00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:25.679
Do I stay inside of this conflict?
00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:26.720
Do I engage with this?
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:28.159
Is this, do I handle this?
00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.240
Is this really actually even my job?
00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.559
Like, should I be doing this?
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:37.279
I think that that is a deeply personal question.
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.039
There are some obvious, right?
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.519
You know, in ways of like answering that of like, hey, is it your job?
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.879
Well, no, you shouldn't, your job isn't to resolve the relationship, right?
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.279
You should not be giving relationship advice.
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.279
Um, and that's obvious.
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:56.559
I don't think that most advisors go into that, into that lane, into that scope.
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.080
I don't think they want to.
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:14.000
But I do think that there are probably many advisors that could walk into those waters, maybe up to their ankles, and just ask questions or validate or reflect back what it is that they're hearing that could help to diffuse the conflict.
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.720
So is this even your job?
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.120
There are some aspects, no, right?
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:20.480
That are that are not.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:25.279
But there's probably more here that you could be doing that could be helpful.
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:37.279
Now, going back to the personal piece, if you are just somebody that is deeply uncomfortable with conflict, please know that by no means am I saying that you just have to deal with it.
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:39.600
You have to just learn how to navigate it.
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:46.080
It is okay if overt conflict tension makes you really uncomfortable.
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.000
There's nothing wrong with that.
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:59.519
You just need to have a plan for how you're gonna handle it when it shows up in your office, because I don't believe that it's a matter of if, especially if you're working with couples and families.
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.360
It's truly a matter of when.
00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:07.279
And conflict might not be yelling and screaming and carrying on and cursing, right?
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.920
It might be small, it might be subtle, but it still can be there.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.920
So if you are someone who is like, hey, I really, I just want to do planning.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:29.279
I really, I have an appreciation for this, but I'm just not quite there on being able to navigate conflict in a way that I feel good, that is okay.
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:40.559
Know then at what point or at what level are you going to, I'll say possibly if this was your plan, at what point are you gonna refer out to a specialist who can handle that?
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:56.240
With the firms that we work with, our firms, this is the point where they bring us into the client meeting and they will do a handoff and say, oh, this is an Ashley conversation, uh, or we need to bring Ashley Meg into this and have them navigate um this with us.
00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:03.119
This can be a great um place to bring in somebody else into the meeting if you don't want to necessarily refer them out.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:06.160
So if conflict isn't your jam, that's okay.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:21.279
It doesn't have to be, but you have to have some kind of a protocol, some kind of a process for how you're going to navigate it, what you're going to do when it does show off, uh, show up, even if that means referring out or bringing in a specialist with you.
00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:22.079
Okay.
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:27.440
We talked about several different ways here to navigate conflict.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:31.039
And unfortunately, we're not going to get to all of it.
00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:32.000
I'm sorry.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.039
Oh, I know time is running out, my friends.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:41.759
But if this was helpful for you, I'd love to know exactly maybe what was helpful.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.000
Or if this is something you struggle with, let me know.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.279
Send me a message and say, hey, yeah, this is actually something I struggle with.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.640
I'd like to know a little bit more uh about this.
00:18:51.359 --> 00:19:00.480
Try out one of these techniques in your next meeting or with your next couple uh where there is conflict and let me know how it goes.
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.039
I would love to stay in touch with you.
00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:15.359
All right, my friends, if you have an Ask Ashley question, if you have something that you'd like some feedback on, you'd like to hear my thoughts on that you would like me to answer, feel free to send me that question.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.960
You can send it to me by heading to our website and the contact me.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.720
You can shoot me an email, hello at beyondthefp.com.
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:27.599
You can also find me on LinkedIn where I hang out a lot and you can shoot me a DM with your question.
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:29.200
I would love to hear from you.
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:30.880
I'd love to be helpful.
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:41.119
If this resonated with you, make sure that you go on, subscribe to the Planning and Beyond podcast so that you never miss a future episode like this one.
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:46.400
And as always, my friends, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:51.200
Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:02.160
Welcome, my friends.
00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:14.880
This is Ask Ashley, the segment of Planning and Beyond, where advisors send me, Ashley, questions that don't quite have a technical answer, but certainly a human component behind it.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:23.120
Okay, our first one today is how do I handle things when a couple is disagreeing about money in my office?
00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:27.199
Ooh, this is juicy and I don't want to waste any time here.
00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:29.440
So let's get into it.
00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:39.359
When advisors, when they ask me this question, what I really hear are actually three different questions that they're asking.
00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:46.960
And the three different questions are how do I stay in charge of this meeting without taking a side?
00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:52.399
How do I keep this from damaging my relationship with each of the clients?
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:54.719
And is this even my job?
00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:59.359
So I want to, I'll quickly just kind of speak to this last one here.
00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:18.159
When I talk to advisors about handling conflict, um, handling disagreements between uh partners within a coupleship, for many, there is a fear underneath, which is if I engage with this couple, if I engage with this conflict, am I stepping outside of my lane?
00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:21.599
Simultaneously, I think there's also this other question.
00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:28.400
And that is, if I don't engage with it, am I failing them somehow?
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:30.879
And here's maybe what I would like to say.
00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:37.680
If you are an advisor who feels that tug and pull between, am I stepping outside of my lane?
00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:40.560
Or if I don't do this, am I failing them?
00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:42.640
That you are completely normal.
00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:47.359
I think that this is an incredibly difficult space for advisors to be living in.
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:50.239
But it is definitely one that happens.
00:01:50.400 --> 00:02:01.359
And so from my perspective, I do not think that by stepping into conflict with a couple that you are playing the role of therapist.
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:03.920
I think that you are just doing your job.
00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:11.280
I think asking questions, I think navigating hard moments, um, guiding them through and to maybe a decision.
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:14.560
That's part of being a financial planner.
00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:16.719
It's part of being an advisor.
00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:22.319
And it's not whether you choose to engage in the conflict that matters.
00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.000
It's how you do it.
00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:36.400
And so today we're gonna get into a little bit deeper the how part, where hopefully you feel a little bit more confident when it comes to conflict showing up in your office or virtually in one of your meetings.
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:41.520
Okay, that first question I posed the how do I stay in charge of this meeting without taking a side?
00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:59.280
Taking sides is probably, well, I'm not gonna say it's the worst because that would be, you know, I'm not quite sure how true that is, but it would be really, really bad if you were to take sides with a partner when there is active conflict going on.
00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:08.560
The way that you stay in charge of a meeting when there's conflict is by changing what the conversation is about, right?
00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:16.719
Let's move away from deciding who is right and let's move towards what is actually going on here.
00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:28.000
I find that in couples get caught in this, but certainly as practitioners, um, financial advisors get get stuck in this place of focusing too much on the content, right?
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:32.639
They focus too much on, okay, what is the couple actually arguing about?
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:34.719
Are they arguing about the retirement?
00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:39.599
Are they arguing about spending the 529, the boat, the credit card, right?
00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.159
These are all content pieces that can keep us stuck.
00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.080
And it makes sense, right?
00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:48.639
Because it's the thing that couples are saying, right?
00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:50.560
It's the thing that they're talking about.
00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:52.639
But process, right?
00:03:52.879 --> 00:04:02.960
How they are arguing, the process in which they're arguing, who's pursuing who, who shuts down, who's name-calling, who's making weird sounds that really display contempt, right?
00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:05.599
You guys know the person that does the huh, right?
00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:09.919
The grunt, grunting Gary in the meetings, that's all part of process.
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:19.519
And so if we're gonna look at how do I stay in charge of this meeting without taking a side, we need to move away from content, what they are actually arguing about.
00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:24.079
And we need to focus more on how they are arguing.
00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:31.759
So, what I mean by that is if you have a couple and let's say they're they're there's conflict about spending, right?
00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:32.560
Classic.
00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:38.959
Okay, the partner that is getting animated, um, we'll say animated.
00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.720
The partner that's getting really animated, that's getting heated, right?
00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:44.319
How are they displaying that?
00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:45.680
Are they name-calling?
00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:47.839
Are they talking really quickly?
00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.199
Are they escalating the conversation, right?
00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:53.279
That's important to pay attention to.
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.279
The same on the same side, right?
00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:56.399
The other partner, right?
00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:57.279
Are they withdrawing?
00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:58.720
Are they going quiet, right?
00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.800
Those are all important pieces to to to pay attention to as well.
00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:08.639
And so if we're gonna not take sides in this moment, we need to change the conversation and what it's about.
00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:21.279
And one way of moving from content to process is by being an active participant in the meeting, interrupting what's happening and naming what is going on.
00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.920
So here's kind of what I mean when I say it, when I say all of that.
00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:32.639
For those of you who have not maybe heard me talk before about being an active participant.
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:42.720
Um, when I say being active participant, I mean you can't just sit there and watch what is happening uh unfold in front of you.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.319
You have to be like in the meeting.
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:51.680
When I was doing supervision with pre-licensed clinicians, like I would demonstrate this like in my chair.
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.160
And I would sit kind of on the edge of my chair.
00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.319
I would lean forward, I would have like my hands out, just kind of like this.
00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:07.040
For those of you that are listening on audio, you can't see my hands, but I would have my hands kind of out as if um to kind of welcome, right?
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:09.680
But also balance um the partners.
00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:15.839
Like I was active in the meeting, not just in terms of what I was saying, but in my body language.
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.399
You have to be active as a planner.
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:26.480
And for those of you that are doing virtual meetings, there's a way that you can also do this um on the screen and being active with your body language.
00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:29.040
You have to also be active with your words.
00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:41.839
And if we're going to move and shift from content to process, if we're gonna move away from who's right, who's wrong, you've got to be willing to be actively engaged in the conversation.
00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:46.399
That might also mean that you need to interrupt.
00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:55.360
Now, this is probably the thing that I hear advisors say makes them so uncomfortable is interrupting a client.
00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:15.839
But I can assure you that once you practice it and learn how to do it correctly, then it can be a powerful, powerful way to change the conversation from content and conflict to process and connection.
00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:23.759
So here are a few maybe ways that I interrupt when I look at interrupting a couple.
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:31.360
First and foremost, I actually tell my couples that if conflict comes up, I am going to interrupt them.
00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.439
And I actually do this at the very beginning.
00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:46.160
So if I were to back up a little bit, one of the best things that you can do for yourself if you work with couples is to have some sort of a, you know, it can be brief.
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:52.800
It doesn't have to be long-winded, but you know, expectation setting up front early on in the relationship.
00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.759
Um, I used to do this in my very first meeting.
00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.079
And you can set the tone for how conflict is gonna be handled.
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:10.800
You could say something like, you know, one thing I want to say is that in these meetings, the two of you are probably gonna disagree about something at some point.
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:13.920
And I want you to know that that's completely normal.
00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:21.279
And sometimes it is incredibly useful because it usually means that we found the thing that actually matters most.
00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:25.759
When that happens, when you guys get a little hot, right?
00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:32.799
When things start to heat up, when there is tension, disagreement, or conflict, I am not going to referee it.
00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:38.960
I am, however, going to slow us down to make sure that I understand both of you.
00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:44.000
And that may come across as me interrupting you in the moment.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:50.720
I want you to know this up front because for some people, it may come a bit of a surprise.
00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:59.519
But I want you to know that I am doing this from a place of really trying to make sure that we are staying focused on what truly matters.
00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.279
That was a little long-winded.
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:09.039
You can find your own script, but that is how I talk about how conflict will be handled from the get-go.
00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:17.679
Now, going back to, okay, how do we interrupt maybe the client when conflict starts to happen?
00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:27.600
Um, you can say something like, hey, I just want to pause us right here for a second because I think something important just happened.
00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:32.399
Or you could say something like, Can I stop us?
00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:38.720
Not because anything is wrong, but because I don't want to lose what just came up.
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.240
Would that be okay?
00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:50.720
Those are two fantastic ways to interrupt not just the people, but we're interrupting the content, right?
00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.320
Going back to we want to move away from content, right?
00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.000
We want to get out of that place.
00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:02.240
This is how we, you know, make sure that we're not picking sides right here, is we want to interrupt the content, right?
00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:10.720
And so interrupting in that way, it's interrupting the what is being talked about without telling someone, hey, can you be quiet for a second?
00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:14.399
Um, so that I can, you know, hear what this other person has to say.
00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.919
It's not making one client the problem, right?
00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:24.240
We've just shifted the conversation in such a way to reducing the tension.
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.559
Hopefully, it allows, you know, breath to kind of be taken.
00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:34.320
Um, but it also then allows you to get in and to really focus on what matters most.
00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:42.080
Okay, if we're going to also work on not taking sides, you know, I said we need to be an active participant.
00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.240
We need to move away from content.
00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:47.200
Um, that might include interrupting.
00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:56.399
The last piece that I'll say for this one is that I think it's also important that we make the covert overt.
00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:59.120
Sorry, I have to think about that every time that I say it.
00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.919
We have to make the covert overt.
00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:07.600
And what I mean by that is naming what you see, naming what you observe, right?
00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:09.679
Call it out, say it out loud.
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.240
Here's a way that you can do that.
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:18.799
I notice that every time we get to the retirement date, the energy in the room shifts.
00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:20.639
Am I reading that right?
00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:28.159
When you make something explicitly overt, like tension, right?
00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.440
Like when we say, hey, I'm noticing that this happens.
00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.600
Am I getting it right?
00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:39.679
You're giving permission for the couple to be able to talk about the thing, the problem.
00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.440
You're you're giving them that sense of, hey, it's okay.
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:44.960
I can handle this.
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.200
We can have this conversation.
00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:57.600
There's a real sense of relief that clients can feel knowing that, okay, my advisor, like we can talk about something that's hard and they can handle it.
00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:00.080
Like they're picking up on this, they're noticing that.
00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:04.960
There's a real sense of relief and connectedness that can come up in that place.
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:10.960
Clients actually will learn to trust you more by naming that out loud in a gentle way, right?
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:18.639
We don't want to call them out in a way that's rude and always asking, am I getting, am I getting this right?
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:30.720
Okay, so let's move on to that second question that I talked about, which was making sure that we are, you know, not um losing trust with the clients.
00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:33.200
How do we not damage the relationship there?
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:40.159
Now, a few of the things that I just shared are certainly ways that you can build relationship equity with them.
00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:46.080
That one that I just mentioned, I won't reiterate it, uh, but it's a way that you can build trust.
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:54.559
I think that it's important to remember when we look at how do we not damage the relationship with one or with both?
00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:08.879
The important thing to remember here is that when clients leave a meeting, especially if there is conflict, they want to know that at the end of the day they were understood and that they were heard.
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:14.320
And so, how can we structure for you conversationally?
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:23.279
How can we structure your position and what you say in such a way that both partners feel understood and they feel heard?
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.000
Now, there's a few things that come to mind here.
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:34.480
One is validation, making sure that you validate and say, hey, I completely understand where it is that you're coming from.
00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.120
That makes a lot of sense to me.
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.519
Being able to reflect back what it is that they say.
00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:55.759
Um, and so we talk about reflection, you know, as not just repeating back like word for word, but saying something like, so what I'm hearing is that this is not really about whether we spend$40,000.
00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:01.440
It's about wanting to know if something happened to you, she would be okay.
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:02.960
Do I have that right?
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:08.000
We want to make sure that when we're reflecting, we're also, you know, we're not just parroting, right?
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.159
We're reflecting back the meaning here.
00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:28.399
And so protecting the relationship, you know, not causing further damage if we're engaging in conflict, you know, validating each partner's position, reflecting back what it is that you're hearing is a way that you can ensure that the client feels seen, that they feel heard, and that they feel understood.
00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:40.960
Now, a caveat here is that I understand for some, when we validate, it might feel like you are agreeing with what the client is saying.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:54.240
Please hear me that just because you validate someone's position, just because you validate and say, I understand why it is that you think the way that you think or have come to make this decision does not mean that you agree with it.
00:14:54.399 --> 00:15:07.840
Trust me, there have been countless times that people, clients, couples, partners, they have told me things that I can understand why they have come to that place and feeling this way or making this decision.
00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.320
And also, that's not a great look for them.
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:11.519
It's not a great idea.
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:12.399
It's not healthy.
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:16.559
I can understand it, but I don't maybe agree with how they handled something.
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.519
So those two are not the same thing.
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:23.360
Okay, let's talk about is this really your job?
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:23.759
Right?
00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:25.679
Do I stay inside of this conflict?
00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:26.720
Do I engage with this?
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:28.159
Is this, do I handle this?
00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.240
Is this really actually even my job?
00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.559
Like, should I be doing this?
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:37.279
I think that that is a deeply personal question.
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.039
There are some obvious, right?
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.519
You know, in ways of like answering that of like, hey, is it your job?
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.879
Well, no, you shouldn't, your job isn't to resolve the relationship, right?
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.279
You should not be giving relationship advice.
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.279
Um, and that's obvious.
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:56.559
I don't think that most advisors go into that, into that lane, into that scope.
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.080
I don't think they want to.
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:14.000
But I do think that there are probably many advisors that could walk into those waters, maybe up to their ankles, and just ask questions or validate or reflect back what it is that they're hearing that could help to diffuse the conflict.
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.720
So is this even your job?
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.120
There are some aspects, no, right?
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:20.480
That are that are not.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:25.279
But there's probably more here that you could be doing that could be helpful.
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:37.279
Now, going back to the personal piece, if you are just somebody that is deeply uncomfortable with conflict, please know that by no means am I saying that you just have to deal with it.
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:39.600
You have to just learn how to navigate it.
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:46.080
It is okay if overt conflict tension makes you really uncomfortable.
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.000
There's nothing wrong with that.
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:59.519
You just need to have a plan for how you're gonna handle it when it shows up in your office, because I don't believe that it's a matter of if, especially if you're working with couples and families.
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.360
It's truly a matter of when.
00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:07.279
And conflict might not be yelling and screaming and carrying on and cursing, right?
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.920
It might be small, it might be subtle, but it still can be there.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.920
So if you are someone who is like, hey, I really, I just want to do planning.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:29.279
I really, I have an appreciation for this, but I'm just not quite there on being able to navigate conflict in a way that I feel good, that is okay.
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:40.559
Know then at what point or at what level are you going to, I'll say possibly if this was your plan, at what point are you gonna refer out to a specialist who can handle that?
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:56.240
With the firms that we work with, our firms, this is the point where they bring us into the client meeting and they will do a handoff and say, oh, this is an Ashley conversation, uh, or we need to bring Ashley Meg into this and have them navigate um this with us.
00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:03.119
This can be a great um place to bring in somebody else into the meeting if you don't want to necessarily refer them out.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:06.160
So if conflict isn't your jam, that's okay.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:21.279
It doesn't have to be, but you have to have some kind of a protocol, some kind of a process for how you're going to navigate it, what you're going to do when it does show off, uh, show up, even if that means referring out or bringing in a specialist with you.
00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:22.079
Okay.
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:27.440
We talked about several different ways here to navigate conflict.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:31.039
And unfortunately, we're not going to get to all of it.
00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:32.000
I'm sorry.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.039
Oh, I know time is running out, my friends.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:41.759
But if this was helpful for you, I'd love to know exactly maybe what was helpful.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.000
Or if this is something you struggle with, let me know.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.279
Send me a message and say, hey, yeah, this is actually something I struggle with.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.640
I'd like to know a little bit more uh about this.
00:18:51.359 --> 00:19:00.480
Try out one of these techniques in your next meeting or with your next couple uh where there is conflict and let me know how it goes.
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.039
I would love to stay in touch with you.
00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:15.359
All right, my friends, if you have an Ask Ashley question, if you have something that you'd like some feedback on, you'd like to hear my thoughts on that you would like me to answer, feel free to send me that question.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.960
You can send it to me by heading to our website and the contact me.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.720
You can shoot me an email, hello at beyondthefp.com.
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:27.599
You can also find me on LinkedIn where I hang out a lot and you can shoot me a DM with your question.
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:29.200
I would love to hear from you.
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:30.880
I'd love to be helpful.
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:41.119
If this resonated with you, make sure that you go on, subscribe to the Planning and Beyond podcast so that you never miss a future episode like this one.
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:46.400
And as always, my friends, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:51.200
Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
