WEBVTT
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Someone saying, This is important to me, this sense of clarity and control, and I'm not feeling that way.
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That's an opportunity for the advisor.
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I mean, it's all good news for the advisor.
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We'd be better off teasing out those feelings and addressing them and giving clients a way to deal with them than saying, let's have another workflow and meet one more time.
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You know what I mean?
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It's all important.
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Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding.
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As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers.
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It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most.
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Which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind.
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You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships.
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You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more.
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Whether it's mastering discovery meetings, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so.
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Oh yeah, hi.
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I should probably introduce myself.
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I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay.
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My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding.
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Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
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Let's dive in.
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Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding.
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I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey, and today I am thrilled, selfishly really thrilled.
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I was sharing with this person before that one of the reasons I like having a podcast is so that I can meet really cool people or people that I've admired from afar.
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And today is that day I have on the show, we have on the show, Julie Littlechild with us, uh CEO, founder of Absolute Engagement.
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And I am really excited for this conversation.
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Julie, thank you so much for being willing to come on and to share all of your wisdom, all of your greatness here today.
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Oh no, I'm excited.
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This is look, you're right in the space that interests me.
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So I'm right there with you.
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Yeah, I love being in the trenches, especially with other great women.
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So it has definitely been a space that has continued to grow near and dear to my heart.
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Well, before we start having a really awesome conversation, can we take maybe just a few minutes?
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And I'd love to hear a little bit about your story and how you came into founding Absolute Engagement, a little bit about Absolute Engagement.
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Maybe give us some context there.
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Sure.
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I always say, you know, it was an emergent strategy.
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If you'd asked me a long time ago if I would what I would be doing, I couldn't have told you, but it evolved.
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I after I finished business school, I worked with a small company and we were doing practice management coaching and consulting and research with financial advisors.
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That's when I first got into the industry.
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And what became really apparent was every time we were in these engagements, and I'd say, well, but what do your clients want?
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Nobody had an actual answer to that question.
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There was this just this deep assumption that, you know, this is how it's done.
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And we began at that point to say, well, why don't we ask them a few questions and why don't we do a quick survey or what have you?
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And and you know, and then you fast forward, and that became the effectively the basis of the entire business was just this idea that we've got to involve the client somehow, we've got to co-create.
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And so that was really the starting point.
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And then we started primarily as a business with capturing feedback and helping firms to measure the experience, to understand needs and expectations.
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And we've been doing that for many years.
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And then the evolution of the business alongside that was a couple of years ago, we actually leaned heavily into technology and created engagement technology that said, yeah, it's great to get feedback.
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We need that, keep doing that.
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But really, what advisors need is to be able to accelerate growth and drive engagement is to get relevant data at key touch points all the way across the journey and to integrate that into how they work.
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And so that is the platform that we focus on today.
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Oh, I love that.
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Like I get a little giddy hearing you talk about that.
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And you said something there that just really, I think, speaks to me and where my passion also lies in co-creating an experience.
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And so coming from, you know, for myself, coming from the mental health space, we would use a term called a treatment team approach.
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And it was about, it includes like the client and it includes a psychiatrist or a nutritionist, a therapist.
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But it was really, as you just, you know, kind of shared, it was about let's co-create a plan together, right?
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It can't just be these experts saying what it should or might be, right?
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And nor the other side either.
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Like we have to really work together.
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And so I love just that idea of and using technology too, but you know, engaging the client, asking the client, and then let's co-create an experience together to help drive better engagement, better results there.
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And and healthcare is interesting because there's so much research on the level of adherence to the plan when patients are involved in some of that, even taking meds and different things.
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It's so I know I I read a fair bit about that over the years, and it's it's quite fascinating to see.
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Yeah, it is.
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It definitely is.
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Well, there's a lot that you and I could talk about, a lot, a lot, Julie, that we could that we could probably talk about and nerd out about.
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But I would love to learn a little bit more about this framework that you have, the experience innovation framework.
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And there's three, I don't know if you would call them pillars.
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I I think I should just be quiet right now and just let you just kind of take over.
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But share with us a little bit about just kind of this idea, this framework.
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It's a core concept of absolute engagement.
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Can we dive into that a little bit?
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Yeah, for sure.
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And and like I love a good framework.
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There's just my brain works in a certain way.
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I need frameworks, I need to see how everything connects together.
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And so I do people laugh at me all the time because I try to make everything a framework, but um, but that's okay.
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I'm comfortable with that.
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You know, we've been hyper focused on the prospect and client experience.
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And, you know, if I if I started from the day I got into this industry, what we think about would look very different from today.
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It's evolving.
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And so the evolution of that experience has been a real interest and passion of ours at absolute engagement.
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And the framework also has evolved in a sense.
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So we've talked, it feels like forever, about creating an engaging experience, like creating a more personalized, human-centered experience, not just the advice that's being delivered.
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I mean, that's critical.
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It's the pillar, the core concept, but the entire experience from the events and the communications and the process.
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And yet we found that a lot of advisors would talk about experience and talk about engagement, but really the implementation was about creating a more efficient experience.
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And again, it's important.
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I'm not going to say it's not, but you know, get our CRM in place, create workflows, you know, a lot of this.
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And so over time, and with the input of some great advisors, we do a lot of research with top-producing advisors, and we talk to them about their pain points around experience.
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I'm getting to the framework in a second, but the pain points tended to be about efficiency, right?
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And so I thought, oh, that's interesting.
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So we're creating experiences because we're responding to our pain points every day.
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Like it feels inefficient.
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But then we said, looking forward, you know, how do you see experience going?
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And they talked about culture and team and training and personalization.
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And so that, okay, so we're just on a path.
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They just have to get out of it.
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So the framework really just shows the evolution from an efficient experience, which is where we start.
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And efficiency is about, you know, creating a frictionless, consistent service, good, just good service, what you'd expect.
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And then once that's in place, the evolution is really to an engaging experience.
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So layer onto that now more personalization around the needs and concerns and the challenges of clients in what's delivered.
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And then the final piece, we actually only added recently, and it just came out of work with advisors, and it's an enduring experience.
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And what we came to realize is particularly with larger firms, that the next stage was really more structural internal.
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So, how is the team structured?
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What is the culture?
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How do they collaborate and communicate around experience?
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Who has accountability for it?
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You know, so, and when you do that, it's almost like adding fuel to the fire.
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But you don't start there.
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And rarely do you have the luxury because you probably don't have a team at the at the beginning.
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But that's really the path, efficient in uh engaging and then enduring.
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I loved that path as you as you just shared.
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And, you know, one, it just makes a lot of sense in my mind from a model of change when I think about just how change happens.
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And so, you know, when I was reading like on LinkedIn, like somebody you're saying, and I was like, this, yeah, this totally connects.
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This makes a lot of sense.
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And from where I'm just kind of understanding you, please correct me if I'm wrong.
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It sounds like where a lot of the focus or emphasis, yeah, focus or emphasis has previously just been on this like friction, creating like less friction.
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Can you just share maybe like why do advisors just focus on that?
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Like, what are they?
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It sounds easy.
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Like, let's just focus on the pain and solving the pain.
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But like, maybe are there, is there other stuff there that advisors, if they're thinking, like, oh yeah, I kind of do that, like, but isn't that, shouldn't I be focused on just that?
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And won't that solve, you know, a lot of this?
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Can we stay maybe just there in that place for a little bit and share a little bit more?
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Yeah, well, I think you're right, first off, that it's not easy, but it's easier to focus on efficiency, right?
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None of this is easy when you're trying to lay the foundation, especially with technology evolving the way it is.
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But if you talk to all the employees and the and the advisors and you ask what's wrong, they're probably going to tell you something related to a process or and it and it's almost like you're dragged back to this.
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We get how to deliver good service, right?
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That is a well-worn concept.
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The concept of engagement is still something that we're getting our heads around a little.
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I think people have a definition of it in their own head.
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They want to deliver it, but we don't have the same sort of common standards for that.
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The and then I think the other piece of it that might stop us is that there's this assumption that we can apply technology to efficiency, right?
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It's all uh there's an answer, but engagement, that's a human thing.
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Well, it's true.
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But as soon as we say that, it's almost like we're leaving it up to the advisor to just use their superpowers.
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They're going to engage during conversation, they're going to engage in a meeting, but we tend not to think about it broadly in terms of, well, how are the needs of clients reflected in the entire experience?
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It's a newer concept.
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And it's, it's, you know, it's we talk about personalization a lot in this industry.
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It goes hand in hand with engagement and how we can respond.
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So I think the white space is almost where that human side of things meets technology.
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How can technology help advisors actually connect and, you know, have the insights that they need to connect and so on and so forth?
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Well, and as I've kind of heard you share too, but like engagement and satisfaction are two different things.
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And like I'm like thinking just through where I hear a lot of advisors they share that there might be a false belief that their client is engaged because they're satisfied, you know, and that's not that's not the same thing.
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Satisfaction and engagement like are not the same thing.
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And I hadn't thought about it until I just heard you say this, but that definition of what does engagement actually look like, there's a lot of ambiguity, a lot of ambiguity there.
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We when we do research, we have to define it.
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But it's our definition.
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Like we define the outcome of it to measure it.
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And in what we've used is, you know, when you're a five out of five on satisfaction and you've provided a referral, that's kind of it puts you in a different state.
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Not net promoter score, would you refer, but like have you referred?
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And then what we were able to do in the data is sort of reverse engineer from there and say, well, when people are in that engaged category, what's different about the relationship?
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And what you began to realize is, you know, a much deeper understanding of my needs.
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They focus on the family.
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It's not just about we meet often enough and they have good technology.
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It's this sense of, like we always say, is like being seen, heard, and understood, right?
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Like so many.
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When that happens, you have engaged.
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How do we do that at scale?
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That starts to become, I think, the challenge that we think about.
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Yeah, and part of that framework, right, is is then moving in order to be able to do that.
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If I'm understanding this framework too, you have to move away from or beyond just efficiency.
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Engagement has to, if we're, if that's what we're working towards, we have to then go beyond efficient, right?
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Like that's important.
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Efficiency is important, it does matter, but we can't just stop there, right?
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We have to then move, move beyond that.
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But then you said too, as part of this framework, like you guys have now kind of taken a next level, Julie, like this enduring um kind of concept and as like a team and use the word like team culture there too.
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Tell me a little bit, I guess, maybe about that piece.
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What's the connection there between that enduring part?
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Like, how does that help then from just an overall client engagement?
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Yeah.
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I think it it sort of almost democratizes the whole idea of engagement across the firm.
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It creates a shared vision and value, and that starts to permeate every interaction almost naturally.
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So, like to give you a quick example, when when we talk about engagement, and you know, that often if I'm speaking, I'll use this example of Joshi the giraffe and Ritz Carlton.
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Like every, I don't know if you've heard this in presentation, but it's like everybody's heard about this stuff.
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I won't bore you with the details.
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But, you know, at the end of the day, the staff at Ritz Carlton did something extraordinary for a family.
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And that keeps getting touted as an example of experience.
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I think that's an example of culture because their staff are so sensitized to needs that they see an opportunity and they step into it.
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Experience to me is more the stuff you can standardize and still create something great and extraordinary.
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But it's so, yeah, that's creating a culture of who we are, what our clients expect, what we'll do for our clients becomes um, and then collaborating on ideas with the team, getting their buy-in creates this incredible.
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You know, Gallup for years has talked about team engagement or employee engagement and client engagement, and two plus two kind of equals five.
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When you get all of those things pulling in the same direction.
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The other part of enduring, though, and this is again more for larger firms, is the structure.
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It's interesting to me because we work with a lot of very large RIAs, and rarely do we see anyone with the title chief client experience officer as a sole role.
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Until you're into the 15, sometimes$20 billion range, it's always I'm an advisor plus the chief client experience officer.
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And that's fine.
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Like, but what we're seeing again is this evolution of almost professionalizing how we think about this.
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And it's not an easy role.
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So kudos to anybody who does that.
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But that's also part of that enduring nature.
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Have you found just from like that research, are there any you mentioned maybe a dedicated role and sometimes that's easier for you know larger firms?
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But I guess uh using the Ritz Carlton uh story, uh, which I love.
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Um and I I agree with you actually that it is not that is more of a it's a reflection on the culture.
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But are there specifics that advisors, even if they're smaller firms, you know, maybe they're not large, but are there any specific examples of like from that enduring place?
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Like what do they do?
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What do they do differently?
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Well, I think, you know, if they're they're smaller, they're the they're still collaborating with the team, even if it's a small team, they're looking for ideas.
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And I think the ways that they are really bringing engagement to the fore are many.
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So engagement could be, again, this is just an example I might use a lot because we see it a lot, is is how you run a meeting with a client.
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Let's assume a good standardized process is you use Calendly or something, or however, you get the meeting booked, you meet X number of times a year, you send an agenda in advance with the top line blank that says tell us what you want to talk about.
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You know, you've got a process in place, very efficient.
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And then some advisors are just great at digging deep once they're in there.
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Like you guys are great at talking about the kind of questions that can draw that out.
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To make a more that make that process engaging, A, you need the right questions, you need to have the right conversations.
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And we believe you need to draw out what's peop on people's minds before the meeting.
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So what's keeping them up at night?
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Where are the differences between the couple?
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Are there differences between the family?
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And really co-create back to that word, the agenda based on what they're experiencing.
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Now you've gone from an efficient experience to an engaging experience.
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Well, uh that can be a small firm, but it could move from sending content once a month because it looks good and interesting to everyone, to segmenting and sending personalized content based on stated needs or interests or concerns.
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.880
Like these are just all ways that I f think firms are are moving in that direction of deeper engagement.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:21.200
Yeah, the kind of phrase or concept of client experience, I'm seeing it a lot more.
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:27.200
I was at feature proof earlier this year, and it was talked about a lot uh everywhere.
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:27.680
Yes.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:36.880
And and understandably, like it was, you know, it I don't mean to say everywhere is in like, oh my gosh, I'm like, but like it's just it's right now it's top of mind.
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:45.599
And some of that I understand is because client ex in this age of technology with AI, like client experience is going to matter.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:47.359
And I do believe it will start to matter.
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.759
Clients will look at it, you know, pretty strongly.
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:50.480
Absolutely.
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:56.240
And it's it's like the, you know, it's been talked about for years, this idea of an experience economy, right?
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.599
Moving from delivering a product to delivering an experience.
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:13.200
And yet, in a way, I think our industry is coming to realize that this can be a true differentiator, but it can also deliver a much better experience for the client, which, you know, we all care about deeply.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:31.839
Well, and I think this is where you guys come into play too, because sometimes what I'll say we on like the professional side, what we might think is a great experience uh or is a great idea, it just may not land as well, or it might just kind of miss the mark.
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:40.160
And so going back to that co-creating, I think that's where having that feedback from the client end around what is working and what is what is not.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:45.039
I I would imagine there have been gaps there around what advisors think and what clients think.
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:52.559
Are there any, I don't know, any insights there that you guys have found from that gap around what clients think versus what advisors think?
00:20:52.880 --> 00:21:04.400
Yeah, I mean, I think to me the the biggest gap is almost this perception that we have in the industry and as advisors that we're going to find the gaps on service.
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:05.599
So, right?
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:11.359
And it's not like this satisfaction is very high in this industry.
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.279
And it's because we're delivering on core service expectations.
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:16.799
That is the correlation.
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:21.519
Deliverer exceeds on core service expectations, people are satisfied.
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:25.759
The bigger gaps tend to come from how people are feeling.
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.720
And so, you know, we have a confidence index.
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:39.119
It looks at, you know, a sense of control and clarity, and that's the biggest satisfaction gap is someone saying, This is important to me, this sense of clarity and control.
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:42.079
And I'm not feeling that way.
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:44.319
That's an opportunity for the advisor.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.880
I mean, it's all good news for the advisor.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:59.759
We'd be better off teasing out those feelings and addressing them and giving clients a way to deal with them than saying, let's have another workflow and meet one more time.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.960
You know what I mean?
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.400
It's it's all it's all important.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.559
And I always feel like I'm bashing that.
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.680
It's gotta be if you don't have any workflow, don't even bother.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:10.880
Like you're not getting anywhere.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.920
So it's interesting to me that of consistently now we do the satisfaction gap.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:16.720
What's important?
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:18.160
How satisfied are you?
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:20.240
And it's always how the client is feeling.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.519
Biggest gaps right now for the last several years.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:25.119
So let's focus on that.
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.599
Oh yeah, that's so that's so interesting.
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.480
And I I laugh just because like I know.
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:32.160
So is the answer, right?
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:43.039
So my husband, he's a CFP, and you know, he the technical stuff, like he's brilliant at, and I do he doesn't give himself enough credit.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:47.920
I think that he does a great job with clients on the more emotional side, maybe than what he gives himself credit for.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:54.079
But I also know that what you just said, like the pausing and stuff, and let's tease out some of the, let's just take a moment.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:23:00.240
Like, can we just pause the agenda and take a moment and just tease out some of these feelings?
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:04.559
It doesn't have to be an entire 52-minute long therapy session.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:07.200
Right.
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.200
Yeah, but it can just be a moment.
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:14.480
And and I would imagine that that might go a long way in closing that gap there.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:15.759
It's huge.
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:24.960
I mean, what emerges just from a set of simple questions and the differences in couples is the other thing that I just find.
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.519
Like, it's not that it's been ignored.
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:30.160
It just hasn't been tackled in the right way, I think.
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:45.039
So any advisor I talk to worth worth his or her salt is gonna say, I try to get couples there, I pause, I look in the other one's direction, if if likely she, but maybe he or she is not the most engaged.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.680
I, you know, check for understanding.
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:55.680
I always think it's like when somebody talks to somebody who doesn't speak the same language and they talk louder and slower as if somehow that'll I don't make it.
00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:58.240
It's it's still a different language.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:07.440
It's literally like my family, like and when they go to Europe, it's like hello.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:13.039
Or to the Mexican restaurant, or truly, to the Mexican restaurant.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:16.799
And I'm so I'm just so embarrassed.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:24.480
Like now that we've got that visual in our head, that's hysterical.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:36.960
But it's yeah, I like I think what's not striking people is they actually need to change the agenda and what they talk about, not try to convince the other person that what they're talking about is the right thing.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:45.200
And and and again, we found just by asking both of them questions in advance of a meeting and separately, this emerges.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:47.599
But you have to be very intentional about that.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:54.720
And so hence, you know, changing the experience and that other person has thoughts and feelings, you're just not hearing them.
00:24:54.960 --> 00:25:01.279
Oh man, we could sit here and talk couples all day, Julie, because they are they are my they are my jam.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:11.119
Okay, one of the things that you've mentioned a few times about having clients fill out or answer questions prior to the meeting.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:17.839
So sometimes I hear from advisors a worry of I don't want to ask too much of my clients.
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.519
They're busy already.
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:24.079
Uh, or what do I do if they just don't fill it out or if they don't like do it?
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:25.920
There's this worry like in concern.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:30.720
And I know it comes from a good place of I don't want to ask too much of my clients.
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:37.759
And so I'm just curious, like, what would you say maybe to advisors who are worried about ask?
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:39.039
Because I think that's brilliant.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.359
Ask those questions, send them out like ahead of time.
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.440
But what would you say to advisors who might be worried or concerned about uh doing that?
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.519
Yeah, and look, I'm completely biased because our technology does this.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.200
So I've I I see it a lot.
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.720
I I I watch it and there's a couple of big differences here.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.000
I think one is that there's ways to do it well.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:12.079
Doing it well means maybe asking for two or three minutes of someone's time and asking three or four questions that aren't complex, but really just kind of hit at how they're feeling in the moment.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:17.200
And then, you know, because where we go wrong is you see advisors going, I'm gonna do that.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.920
And then they start asking a lot of financial questions or so this isn't the time for that.
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:23.359
That's your job in the meeting.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.599
Let's let's focus on how people are feeling.
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:34.480
And then rather than it be, you know, feel like a survey or something, which nobody wants to do in advance of a meeting, it's just part of booking a meeting.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:36.559
I want to see you at Thursday at 10.
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:42.319
And then the positioning is really to ensure that we're focused on exactly what matters to you.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.480
Can you just answer a few questions?
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:49.519
So now it's taken me three minutes to book a meeting instead of one minute to book a meeting.
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:57.599
And we actually see incredibly high response rates on that front because of the positioning and the immediate impact.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:00.799
Now you sit down and you address what they said.
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:05.200
Well, next time 100%, they're doing that right because it drove the conversation.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:06.640
Yeah, I love that.
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:16.319
And I'm glad to hear you say that because it's validating to at least maybe some of where I come from is just like just ask and just just do it.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:19.200
It doesn't have to be this big grand thing.
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:24.160
It doesn't have to be a 20 question like survey with large text box.
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:31.440
Like it can just be, as you said, like a few just like simple questions that maybe get plugged into the calendar, like booking.
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:36.640
But having that information, I think it it's helpful just from an engagement standpoint.
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:51.839
But in my mind, too, it also communicates to the client that the advisor cares, that they they are interested, they value, you know, you client more than just like the numbers, like part.
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.079
Like they they're concerned with the whole being.
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:59.440
And so I think there's also a communication piece, but you know, both ways, but it's it does send a mess.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:05.839
I think it can send a message to clients that might help with their engagement.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:11.119
So I think most advisors, if they don't do this, sit down and say, look, is there anything that you want to talk about?
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:11.359
Right?
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:12.640
Like it's just polite.
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:13.839
That's where we start.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.920
The problem, I think, with human beings is that's a hard question to answer in the moment.
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:18.720
So hard.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:19.119
Right?
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.559
So it's like, I don't like, don't you know what we're supposed to talk about?
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.279
Or I'm here to talk about my portfolio.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:29.279
So obviously I'm gonna say that's most important because that's why I'm sitting here.
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:38.079
But again, just some well-crafted, simple questions draws out things that they wouldn't have even thought about sharing in that moment.
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:44.960
I think that's the key is how can we draw it out of people and understand the context for great advice?
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:47.039
Because that's what this is at the end of the day.
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:54.000
You know, a lot of people dismiss engagement strategies because it feels too soft or it's just a nice thing.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:56.240
It actually helps you deliver better advice.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.759
And at the, you know, the end of the day, that's what we're trying to do here.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.240
So I don't see it as that soft at all.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:03.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:13.599
So we're kind of in this vein of asking about, you know, from a meeting standpoint, asking a few questions on like the front and prior to the meeting, getting some feedback there.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:28.799
But I know there's other ways that advisors and you guys like seek to get client satisfaction and feedback and some of where, you know, conversations that I've been a part of, it's how often do we get feedback from clients?
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:34.079
Like how often like should we be asking, where does this, where does this fit into our workflow?
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.279
Um it does have to ultimately.
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:38.400
It does, right?
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.119
You know, but where should we put it like into our process?
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.720
It makes me laugh just our the beginnings of our conversation there.
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.880
But I would be curious to know like your answer there.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:56.319
Like, how often should advisors be seeking out feedback, whether it's satisfaction or what have you?
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:56.880
Yeah.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:01.440
So I mean, the first thing I would think about is differentiating feedback and input.
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.920
So feedback is about the advisor.
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:04.880
How am I doing?
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:05.200
Right?
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:06.960
Input is more about the client.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:07.759
How are you doing?
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:08.480
What are you feeling?
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:09.279
What are you thinking?
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:09.519
Right.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:14.160
And though it sounds nuanced, but it does change the cadence a little bit.
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:24.720
So if we're thinking feedback, and I would include in that, like you said, net promoter score, satisfaction, maybe expectations and preferences, you know, how do you want to digest content?
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:25.920
What topics are of interest?
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.559
Like there's a set of questions that you can ask.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:34.000
I would say the vast majority of advisors that we work with are doing something once a year on that.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:50.880
The difference is they're doing a deep dive every two to three years and more of a quick check-in in intervening years, so that they're not, you know, the worst mistake we see is people asking the same questions of their clients every year when it's not a fluid data point.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:54.400
So if I said to you, Ashley, how often do you want to meet?
00:30:54.480 --> 00:31:03.279
And, you know, this year you said twice a year, there's a really good chance next year it's going to be twice a year, like unless something's changed in your life, right?
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.079
So we don't need to ask all those questions every year.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:07.920
Every two to three years, you're good.
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.000
So that's the feedback part of it.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:13.839
The input is more at those points in time.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:23.440
So it could be before a meeting, it could be right after they're onboarded, it could be after an event, you know, it's just that one-to-one point in time.
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.200
You know, you should get it that way if it's fluid data.
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:28.880
So feelings.
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:35.200
That the other big mistake we see is people will do their annual survey and they'll ask about, you know, what are you concerned about?
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:36.720
For example, it's a good question.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:38.079
We get some great data.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:42.319
That data could be stale a week from now because we're human, right?
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:48.960
So we've got to match the type of data we're trying to get with the cadence and when it's when it's asked.
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:55.359
But that feedback process, you know, again, you know, every two to three years takes seven, eight minutes to complete.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:59.599
In the intervening years, something that maybe takes five max.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:05.599
It's not a lot to ask for clients, but my goodness, do you get good data on, you know?
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:13.279
I'm curious from like a starting out point, if there are advisors that are like, oh, like Julie just blew my mind.
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.240
Feedback like versus input, right?
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:17.680
What?
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:18.799
What?
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:22.240
Like that is a I've not thought about it in that way.
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:31.039
I'm curious, maybe some starting points, easy just starting points for let's just say in on the input side.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.599
Yeah, what are one to two maybe just starting points?
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:38.319
Well, I think on the true input side, it's it's more about that point in time.
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.920
So it would probably go to before a meeting or something like that.
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:43.279
Like we just talked about.
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:45.279
So what are your concerns?
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.039
What is what's your level of confidence?
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:51.039
I mean, there are ways to actually ask these questions, but that's what you're trying to understand.
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:53.759
And sometimes you can mix the two in a survey.
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:54.480
That's okay.
00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:00.240
But if I took the starting point, so most advisors I talk to say they don't have anything in place right now.
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:03.759
And they're like, I feel like I should be getting something more from my clients.
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:08.079
The majority do start with some sort of point-in-time survey of all clients.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:12.559
Doesn't have to be long, but let's understand satisfaction.
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:17.599
Let's understand confidence of our clients, like how are you doing on that front?
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.359
Let's understand what they're interested in learning about and talking about.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:30.079
And maybe, and for most, I'd say there are ways to tease out referral opportunities as part of that, still within a, you know, five, six questions, maybe.
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:35.680
It's it's an easy place to start, but you you really get incredible data back.
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:41.200
So now you've got, you know, what they care about, so you can, you know, create some content around that.
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:48.720
You know what they're interested in, so you can focus on that in the in the conversation, and you know how you're doing and what you can improve on.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:50.799
Quick, easy place to start.
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:51.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.960
I would I know that sometimes, and I'm guilty of this too.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:34:00.960
We hear something and then we think we have to do a complete overhaul or we have to do all the things.
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:01.920
I get it.
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:06.400
Sometimes that comes from a place of excitement, sometimes it's from a place of panic.
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:17.119
Um, but I think having those points that you mentioned, just kind of one or two places, like let's just focus there and then kind of build and grow.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:25.280
On the on the feedback side, would there be anything different then that you would share as far as some kind of easy, simple starting places?
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:25.760
Yeah.
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:32.320
And I think those, you know, again, typical feedback is going to be satisfaction, net promoter score, that that sort of thing.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.320
So you could do that together.
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:53.840
Like you could not as much as I separated them, if I was just starting out and wanted to do one simple thing and not create a whole big process around it, I would do that five, six question survey of clients that mixed a little of the two just to dip your toe in the water, not have to create more process around that.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:59.760
And it's gonna it's gonna feed um some really, you know, powerful, powerful insights.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:05.920
You know, and then just you know, you position it in terms of what what's in it for the client and why this matters.
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:08.559
And it can be just doing it can be a benefit.
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:14.960
Like there's interesting connections between asking for feedback and more referrals, just asking for it, which is kind of crazy.
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.840
Yeah, I like that part, just do it part, right?
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.239
Sometimes we just have to get in there and just do it.
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:27.440
This interesting fear, you may be able to answer this um better than I, but I've often asked people why they don't ask for feedback.
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.320
And sometimes they'll say, Well, people are over surveyed.
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.480
And I have lots of, I can explain that away.
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:40.639
It's often fear like what if somebody actually tells me I'm doing a bad job, which has never been borne out in our data, by the way, ever.
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:46.320
But this there's a funny sense of fear, I think, that we have around this.
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:48.559
Oh, yeah, it's risky, right?
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:53.119
And I I think it, you know, it for my, I'm like, well, it's a risk.
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:58.719
And from a place of vulnerability or emotional risk, we're not great as humans.
00:35:59.039 --> 00:35:59.440
Yeah, right.
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:00.559
We're not quite built that way.
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.079
We're not built that way, right?
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:06.639
I'm maybe oversimplifying it there, but I'm like, yeah, feedback is scary.
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:08.159
It's risky, it's vulnerable.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:14.639
So that would make sense to me, but still, it still can be helpful and and even even great.
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:20.800
I often remind people that if someone is dissatisfied, they're still dissatisfied whether you asked them or not.
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:25.280
Like you didn't actually change anything about that, right?
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:31.840
And I've been asked this question could it cause somebody to like almost go, oh yeah, they're not doing a great job.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.199
No, don't worry about that.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:37.280
Like, that's somebody trying to overcomplicate and and excuse it away.
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.719
But oh gosh, I that is so brilliant, Julie.
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:42.880
They are gonna be, they are still dissatisfied.
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:44.880
Whether you ask or not, they're still dissatisfied.
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:45.360
Yeah.
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:46.719
Oh, that is so brilliant.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:57.760
Well, sadly, our time is wrapping up, but I want to connect some of what we've just been talking about to, you know, I'd love for you to do a little bit of self-promotion here with absolute engagement.
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:04.960
Tell us like where people can find you, tell us all of those things and how you guys can be helpful for advisors and firms.
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:12.480
Yeah, so look, we live our lives around this core concept of delivering a deeply engaging experience.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:16.079
The piece in that process, because there's many ways to do that.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:22.239
Piece that we play, and the thing we've always believed is that advisors don't have the right data to do this.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:28.400
Like in some ways, they're drowning in data, in some ways they don't have the right data on how people are thinking and feeling.
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:38.559
So, what we do and how we position what we do is accelerating growth and engagement using the data, real-time data on the true needs of prospects and clients.
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:43.039
So, we've built out tools to make that easy to do.
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:46.159
And that's called the Absolute Engagement Engine.
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:49.360
You can learn about that at absoluteengagement.com.
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:59.840
But we don't try to solve all the world's problems, but we do try to really lean in on the fact that most advisors are just missing opportunities because they don't have this data.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:01.119
Yeah, I love that.
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.519
We'll make sure that we include that link in the show notes.
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:12.400
And Julie, if people want to just hang out with you, um read a little bit more about you, other than heading over to the website, where else can they find you?
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:13.519
I'm on LinkedIn.
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.159
We try to share everything on LinkedIn.
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.280
And uh on the site, we also have our blog.
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:21.519
So uh there's no commitment there.
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:22.719
You don't have to book a meeting.
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:26.320
You can just subscribe and we'll send out all the new research there.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:26.960
Wonderful.
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:31.760
Well, thank you so much, Julie, for coming on and sharing all of your insights, all of your wisdom.
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:41.760
And thank you for tuning in today and allowing Julie and I into your mind, into your ears, and being a little bit of part of your week here.
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:46.880
If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love to keep the connection going.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:52.800
You can find me on LinkedIn at Ashley Kwame, where I share weekly insights on the human side of planning.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:39:03.039
And if you want even more Ashley Kwame or even more Julie, you can head over to the show notes to find all of the links where you can connect and stay with us.
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:10.159
Make sure, though, that most importantly, you follow the show so that you never miss a future conversation like this one.
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:15.039
And as always, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:20.400
Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.519
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond.
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:31.519
I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth.
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:37.119
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:42.559
Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference.
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:50.719
For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyondthefp.com.
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:57.760
You'll find articles, tools, and information about upcoming episodes designed to support your journey and practice.
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:01.360
Stay connected with us on social media and never miss an update.
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:03.760
Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn.
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.159
And remember, the best way to grow is to keep learning and sharing.
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:14.000
Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:08.800
Someone saying, This is important to me, this sense of clarity and control, and I'm not feeling that way.
00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:10.960
That's an opportunity for the advisor.
00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:13.519
I mean, it's all good news for the advisor.
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:26.559
We'd be better off teasing out those feelings and addressing them and giving clients a way to deal with them than saying, let's have another workflow and meet one more time.
00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:27.679
You know what I mean?
00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:30.960
It's all important.
00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:38.000
Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding.
00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:44.479
As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers.
00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:50.159
It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most.
00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.560
Which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind.
00:00:54.719 --> 00:01:04.480
You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships.
00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:15.840
You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more.
00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:31.599
Whether it's mastering discovery meetings, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so.
00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:32.799
Oh yeah, hi.
00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:34.560
I should probably introduce myself.
00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:42.799
I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay.
00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:48.879
My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding.
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.640
Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:54.159
Let's dive in.
00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:05.680
Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding.
00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:10.080
I'm your host, Ashley Kwamey, and today I am thrilled, selfishly really thrilled.
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:18.479
I was sharing with this person before that one of the reasons I like having a podcast is so that I can meet really cool people or people that I've admired from afar.
00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:27.280
And today is that day I have on the show, we have on the show, Julie Littlechild with us, uh CEO, founder of Absolute Engagement.
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.319
And I am really excited for this conversation.
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Julie, thank you so much for being willing to come on and to share all of your wisdom, all of your greatness here today.
00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:38.080
Oh no, I'm excited.
00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:40.719
This is look, you're right in the space that interests me.
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So I'm right there with you.
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Yeah, I love being in the trenches, especially with other great women.
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So it has definitely been a space that has continued to grow near and dear to my heart.
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:55.840
Well, before we start having a really awesome conversation, can we take maybe just a few minutes?
00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:04.719
And I'd love to hear a little bit about your story and how you came into founding Absolute Engagement, a little bit about Absolute Engagement.
00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:06.960
Maybe give us some context there.
00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:07.680
Sure.
00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:10.800
I always say, you know, it was an emergent strategy.
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:16.560
If you'd asked me a long time ago if I would what I would be doing, I couldn't have told you, but it evolved.
00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:27.120
I after I finished business school, I worked with a small company and we were doing practice management coaching and consulting and research with financial advisors.
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That's when I first got into the industry.
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And what became really apparent was every time we were in these engagements, and I'd say, well, but what do your clients want?
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Nobody had an actual answer to that question.
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There was this just this deep assumption that, you know, this is how it's done.
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And we began at that point to say, well, why don't we ask them a few questions and why don't we do a quick survey or what have you?
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And and you know, and then you fast forward, and that became the effectively the basis of the entire business was just this idea that we've got to involve the client somehow, we've got to co-create.
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And so that was really the starting point.
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And then we started primarily as a business with capturing feedback and helping firms to measure the experience, to understand needs and expectations.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:14.400
And we've been doing that for many years.
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And then the evolution of the business alongside that was a couple of years ago, we actually leaned heavily into technology and created engagement technology that said, yeah, it's great to get feedback.
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We need that, keep doing that.
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But really, what advisors need is to be able to accelerate growth and drive engagement is to get relevant data at key touch points all the way across the journey and to integrate that into how they work.
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And so that is the platform that we focus on today.
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Oh, I love that.
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Like I get a little giddy hearing you talk about that.
00:04:51.279 --> 00:05:00.079
And you said something there that just really, I think, speaks to me and where my passion also lies in co-creating an experience.
00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:07.759
And so coming from, you know, for myself, coming from the mental health space, we would use a term called a treatment team approach.
00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:14.720
And it was about, it includes like the client and it includes a psychiatrist or a nutritionist, a therapist.
00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:21.439
But it was really, as you just, you know, kind of shared, it was about let's co-create a plan together, right?
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It can't just be these experts saying what it should or might be, right?
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And nor the other side either.
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Like we have to really work together.
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And so I love just that idea of and using technology too, but you know, engaging the client, asking the client, and then let's co-create an experience together to help drive better engagement, better results there.
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And and healthcare is interesting because there's so much research on the level of adherence to the plan when patients are involved in some of that, even taking meds and different things.
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It's so I know I I read a fair bit about that over the years, and it's it's quite fascinating to see.
00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:02.639
Yeah, it is.
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It definitely is.
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Well, there's a lot that you and I could talk about, a lot, a lot, Julie, that we could that we could probably talk about and nerd out about.
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But I would love to learn a little bit more about this framework that you have, the experience innovation framework.
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And there's three, I don't know if you would call them pillars.
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I I think I should just be quiet right now and just let you just kind of take over.
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But share with us a little bit about just kind of this idea, this framework.
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It's a core concept of absolute engagement.
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Can we dive into that a little bit?
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Yeah, for sure.
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And and like I love a good framework.
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There's just my brain works in a certain way.
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I need frameworks, I need to see how everything connects together.
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And so I do people laugh at me all the time because I try to make everything a framework, but um, but that's okay.
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I'm comfortable with that.
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You know, we've been hyper focused on the prospect and client experience.
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And, you know, if I if I started from the day I got into this industry, what we think about would look very different from today.
00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:07.120
It's evolving.
00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:13.759
And so the evolution of that experience has been a real interest and passion of ours at absolute engagement.
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And the framework also has evolved in a sense.
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So we've talked, it feels like forever, about creating an engaging experience, like creating a more personalized, human-centered experience, not just the advice that's being delivered.
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I mean, that's critical.
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It's the pillar, the core concept, but the entire experience from the events and the communications and the process.
00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:50.319
And yet we found that a lot of advisors would talk about experience and talk about engagement, but really the implementation was about creating a more efficient experience.
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And again, it's important.
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I'm not going to say it's not, but you know, get our CRM in place, create workflows, you know, a lot of this.
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And so over time, and with the input of some great advisors, we do a lot of research with top-producing advisors, and we talk to them about their pain points around experience.
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I'm getting to the framework in a second, but the pain points tended to be about efficiency, right?
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And so I thought, oh, that's interesting.
00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.639
So we're creating experiences because we're responding to our pain points every day.
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Like it feels inefficient.
00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:28.800
But then we said, looking forward, you know, how do you see experience going?
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And they talked about culture and team and training and personalization.
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And so that, okay, so we're just on a path.
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They just have to get out of it.
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So the framework really just shows the evolution from an efficient experience, which is where we start.
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And efficiency is about, you know, creating a frictionless, consistent service, good, just good service, what you'd expect.
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And then once that's in place, the evolution is really to an engaging experience.
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So layer onto that now more personalization around the needs and concerns and the challenges of clients in what's delivered.
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And then the final piece, we actually only added recently, and it just came out of work with advisors, and it's an enduring experience.
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And what we came to realize is particularly with larger firms, that the next stage was really more structural internal.
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So, how is the team structured?
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What is the culture?
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How do they collaborate and communicate around experience?
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Who has accountability for it?
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You know, so, and when you do that, it's almost like adding fuel to the fire.
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But you don't start there.
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And rarely do you have the luxury because you probably don't have a team at the at the beginning.
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:47.519
But that's really the path, efficient in uh engaging and then enduring.
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I loved that path as you as you just shared.
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And, you know, one, it just makes a lot of sense in my mind from a model of change when I think about just how change happens.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:06.240
And so, you know, when I was reading like on LinkedIn, like somebody you're saying, and I was like, this, yeah, this totally connects.
00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:07.519
This makes a lot of sense.
00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:11.759
And from where I'm just kind of understanding you, please correct me if I'm wrong.
00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:21.039
It sounds like where a lot of the focus or emphasis, yeah, focus or emphasis has previously just been on this like friction, creating like less friction.
00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:24.639
Can you just share maybe like why do advisors just focus on that?
00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:25.519
Like, what are they?
00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:26.559
It sounds easy.
00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.519
Like, let's just focus on the pain and solving the pain.
00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:39.120
But like, maybe are there, is there other stuff there that advisors, if they're thinking, like, oh yeah, I kind of do that, like, but isn't that, shouldn't I be focused on just that?
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And won't that solve, you know, a lot of this?
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Can we stay maybe just there in that place for a little bit and share a little bit more?
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Yeah, well, I think you're right, first off, that it's not easy, but it's easier to focus on efficiency, right?
00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:59.360
None of this is easy when you're trying to lay the foundation, especially with technology evolving the way it is.
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But if you talk to all the employees and the and the advisors and you ask what's wrong, they're probably going to tell you something related to a process or and it and it's almost like you're dragged back to this.
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We get how to deliver good service, right?
00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:18.639
That is a well-worn concept.
00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:24.559
The concept of engagement is still something that we're getting our heads around a little.
00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.600
I think people have a definition of it in their own head.
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They want to deliver it, but we don't have the same sort of common standards for that.
00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:44.159
The and then I think the other piece of it that might stop us is that there's this assumption that we can apply technology to efficiency, right?
00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.679
It's all uh there's an answer, but engagement, that's a human thing.
00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:48.639
Well, it's true.
00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:54.399
But as soon as we say that, it's almost like we're leaving it up to the advisor to just use their superpowers.
00:11:54.559 --> 00:12:06.159
They're going to engage during conversation, they're going to engage in a meeting, but we tend not to think about it broadly in terms of, well, how are the needs of clients reflected in the entire experience?
00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:07.919
It's a newer concept.
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.840
And it's, it's, you know, it's we talk about personalization a lot in this industry.
00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.240
It goes hand in hand with engagement and how we can respond.
00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:22.240
So I think the white space is almost where that human side of things meets technology.
00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:30.639
How can technology help advisors actually connect and, you know, have the insights that they need to connect and so on and so forth?
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:36.480
Well, and as I've kind of heard you share too, but like engagement and satisfaction are two different things.
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:52.159
And like I'm like thinking just through where I hear a lot of advisors they share that there might be a false belief that their client is engaged because they're satisfied, you know, and that's not that's not the same thing.
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.519
Satisfaction and engagement like are not the same thing.
00:12:55.679 --> 00:13:05.759
And I hadn't thought about it until I just heard you say this, but that definition of what does engagement actually look like, there's a lot of ambiguity, a lot of ambiguity there.
00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:08.960
We when we do research, we have to define it.
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:10.320
But it's our definition.
00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:14.399
Like we define the outcome of it to measure it.
00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:24.480
And in what we've used is, you know, when you're a five out of five on satisfaction and you've provided a referral, that's kind of it puts you in a different state.
00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.799
Not net promoter score, would you refer, but like have you referred?
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:38.240
And then what we were able to do in the data is sort of reverse engineer from there and say, well, when people are in that engaged category, what's different about the relationship?
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:44.000
And what you began to realize is, you know, a much deeper understanding of my needs.
00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:45.679
They focus on the family.
00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:49.840
It's not just about we meet often enough and they have good technology.
00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:54.320
It's this sense of, like we always say, is like being seen, heard, and understood, right?
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:55.279
Like so many.
00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.399
When that happens, you have engaged.
00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:00.080
How do we do that at scale?
00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.360
That starts to become, I think, the challenge that we think about.
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:08.639
Yeah, and part of that framework, right, is is then moving in order to be able to do that.
00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:13.679
If I'm understanding this framework too, you have to move away from or beyond just efficiency.
00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:19.440
Engagement has to, if we're, if that's what we're working towards, we have to then go beyond efficient, right?
00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:20.240
Like that's important.
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:26.080
Efficiency is important, it does matter, but we can't just stop there, right?
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.879
We have to then move, move beyond that.
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:42.480
But then you said too, as part of this framework, like you guys have now kind of taken a next level, Julie, like this enduring um kind of concept and as like a team and use the word like team culture there too.
00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:46.240
Tell me a little bit, I guess, maybe about that piece.
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.759
What's the connection there between that enduring part?
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:54.559
Like, how does that help then from just an overall client engagement?
00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:55.120
Yeah.
00:14:55.360 --> 00:15:00.960
I think it it sort of almost democratizes the whole idea of engagement across the firm.
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:09.039
It creates a shared vision and value, and that starts to permeate every interaction almost naturally.
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:20.559
So, like to give you a quick example, when when we talk about engagement, and you know, that often if I'm speaking, I'll use this example of Joshi the giraffe and Ritz Carlton.
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:25.360
Like every, I don't know if you've heard this in presentation, but it's like everybody's heard about this stuff.
00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.120
I won't bore you with the details.
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:32.480
But, you know, at the end of the day, the staff at Ritz Carlton did something extraordinary for a family.
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:36.240
And that keeps getting touted as an example of experience.
00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:48.240
I think that's an example of culture because their staff are so sensitized to needs that they see an opportunity and they step into it.
00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:54.559
Experience to me is more the stuff you can standardize and still create something great and extraordinary.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:16:10.080
But it's so, yeah, that's creating a culture of who we are, what our clients expect, what we'll do for our clients becomes um, and then collaborating on ideas with the team, getting their buy-in creates this incredible.
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:17.679
You know, Gallup for years has talked about team engagement or employee engagement and client engagement, and two plus two kind of equals five.
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.879
When you get all of those things pulling in the same direction.
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.679
The other part of enduring, though, and this is again more for larger firms, is the structure.
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:37.840
It's interesting to me because we work with a lot of very large RIAs, and rarely do we see anyone with the title chief client experience officer as a sole role.
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:45.759
Until you're into the 15, sometimes$20 billion range, it's always I'm an advisor plus the chief client experience officer.
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:46.320
And that's fine.
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:52.720
Like, but what we're seeing again is this evolution of almost professionalizing how we think about this.
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:54.240
And it's not an easy role.
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.720
So kudos to anybody who does that.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.519
But that's also part of that enduring nature.
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:10.480
Have you found just from like that research, are there any you mentioned maybe a dedicated role and sometimes that's easier for you know larger firms?
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:16.079
But I guess uh using the Ritz Carlton uh story, uh, which I love.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:22.640
Um and I I agree with you actually that it is not that is more of a it's a reflection on the culture.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:32.000
But are there specifics that advisors, even if they're smaller firms, you know, maybe they're not large, but are there any specific examples of like from that enduring place?
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:32.880
Like what do they do?
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:34.079
What do they do differently?
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:42.400
Well, I think, you know, if they're they're smaller, they're the they're still collaborating with the team, even if it's a small team, they're looking for ideas.
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:48.400
And I think the ways that they are really bringing engagement to the fore are many.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:59.200
So engagement could be, again, this is just an example I might use a lot because we see it a lot, is is how you run a meeting with a client.
00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:14.079
Let's assume a good standardized process is you use Calendly or something, or however, you get the meeting booked, you meet X number of times a year, you send an agenda in advance with the top line blank that says tell us what you want to talk about.
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.680
You know, you've got a process in place, very efficient.
00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.759
And then some advisors are just great at digging deep once they're in there.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:25.680
Like you guys are great at talking about the kind of questions that can draw that out.
00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:32.079
To make a more that make that process engaging, A, you need the right questions, you need to have the right conversations.
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.880
And we believe you need to draw out what's peop on people's minds before the meeting.
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:38.880
So what's keeping them up at night?
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:41.200
Where are the differences between the couple?
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:43.599
Are there differences between the family?
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:49.039
And really co-create back to that word, the agenda based on what they're experiencing.
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.559
Now you've gone from an efficient experience to an engaging experience.
00:18:53.039 --> 00:19:08.559
Well, uh that can be a small firm, but it could move from sending content once a month because it looks good and interesting to everyone, to segmenting and sending personalized content based on stated needs or interests or concerns.
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.880
Like these are just all ways that I f think firms are are moving in that direction of deeper engagement.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:21.200
Yeah, the kind of phrase or concept of client experience, I'm seeing it a lot more.
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:27.200
I was at feature proof earlier this year, and it was talked about a lot uh everywhere.
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:27.680
Yes.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:36.880
And and understandably, like it was, you know, it I don't mean to say everywhere is in like, oh my gosh, I'm like, but like it's just it's right now it's top of mind.
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:45.599
And some of that I understand is because client ex in this age of technology with AI, like client experience is going to matter.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:47.359
And I do believe it will start to matter.
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.759
Clients will look at it, you know, pretty strongly.
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:50.480
Absolutely.
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:56.240
And it's it's like the, you know, it's been talked about for years, this idea of an experience economy, right?
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.599
Moving from delivering a product to delivering an experience.
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:13.200
And yet, in a way, I think our industry is coming to realize that this can be a true differentiator, but it can also deliver a much better experience for the client, which, you know, we all care about deeply.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:31.839
Well, and I think this is where you guys come into play too, because sometimes what I'll say we on like the professional side, what we might think is a great experience uh or is a great idea, it just may not land as well, or it might just kind of miss the mark.
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:40.160
And so going back to that co-creating, I think that's where having that feedback from the client end around what is working and what is what is not.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:45.039
I I would imagine there have been gaps there around what advisors think and what clients think.
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:52.559
Are there any, I don't know, any insights there that you guys have found from that gap around what clients think versus what advisors think?
00:20:52.880 --> 00:21:04.400
Yeah, I mean, I think to me the the biggest gap is almost this perception that we have in the industry and as advisors that we're going to find the gaps on service.
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:05.599
So, right?
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:11.359
And it's not like this satisfaction is very high in this industry.
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.279
And it's because we're delivering on core service expectations.
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:16.799
That is the correlation.
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:21.519
Deliverer exceeds on core service expectations, people are satisfied.
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:25.759
The bigger gaps tend to come from how people are feeling.
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.720
And so, you know, we have a confidence index.
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:39.119
It looks at, you know, a sense of control and clarity, and that's the biggest satisfaction gap is someone saying, This is important to me, this sense of clarity and control.
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:42.079
And I'm not feeling that way.
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:44.319
That's an opportunity for the advisor.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.880
I mean, it's all good news for the advisor.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:59.759
We'd be better off teasing out those feelings and addressing them and giving clients a way to deal with them than saying, let's have another workflow and meet one more time.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.960
You know what I mean?
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.400
It's it's all it's all important.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.559
And I always feel like I'm bashing that.
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.680
It's gotta be if you don't have any workflow, don't even bother.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:10.880
Like you're not getting anywhere.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.920
So it's interesting to me that of consistently now we do the satisfaction gap.
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:16.720
What's important?
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:18.160
How satisfied are you?
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:20.240
And it's always how the client is feeling.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.519
Biggest gaps right now for the last several years.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:25.119
So let's focus on that.
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.599
Oh yeah, that's so that's so interesting.
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.480
And I I laugh just because like I know.
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:32.160
So is the answer, right?
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:43.039
So my husband, he's a CFP, and you know, he the technical stuff, like he's brilliant at, and I do he doesn't give himself enough credit.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:47.920
I think that he does a great job with clients on the more emotional side, maybe than what he gives himself credit for.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:54.079
But I also know that what you just said, like the pausing and stuff, and let's tease out some of the, let's just take a moment.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:23:00.240
Like, can we just pause the agenda and take a moment and just tease out some of these feelings?
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:04.559
It doesn't have to be an entire 52-minute long therapy session.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:07.200
Right.
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.200
Yeah, but it can just be a moment.
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:14.480
And and I would imagine that that might go a long way in closing that gap there.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:15.759
It's huge.
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:24.960
I mean, what emerges just from a set of simple questions and the differences in couples is the other thing that I just find.
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.519
Like, it's not that it's been ignored.
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:30.160
It just hasn't been tackled in the right way, I think.
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:45.039
So any advisor I talk to worth worth his or her salt is gonna say, I try to get couples there, I pause, I look in the other one's direction, if if likely she, but maybe he or she is not the most engaged.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.680
I, you know, check for understanding.
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:55.680
I always think it's like when somebody talks to somebody who doesn't speak the same language and they talk louder and slower as if somehow that'll I don't make it.
00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:58.240
It's it's still a different language.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:07.440
It's literally like my family, like and when they go to Europe, it's like hello.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:13.039
Or to the Mexican restaurant, or truly, to the Mexican restaurant.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:16.799
And I'm so I'm just so embarrassed.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:24.480
Like now that we've got that visual in our head, that's hysterical.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:36.960
But it's yeah, I like I think what's not striking people is they actually need to change the agenda and what they talk about, not try to convince the other person that what they're talking about is the right thing.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:45.200
And and and again, we found just by asking both of them questions in advance of a meeting and separately, this emerges.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:47.599
But you have to be very intentional about that.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:54.720
And so hence, you know, changing the experience and that other person has thoughts and feelings, you're just not hearing them.
00:24:54.960 --> 00:25:01.279
Oh man, we could sit here and talk couples all day, Julie, because they are they are my they are my jam.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:11.119
Okay, one of the things that you've mentioned a few times about having clients fill out or answer questions prior to the meeting.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:17.839
So sometimes I hear from advisors a worry of I don't want to ask too much of my clients.
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.519
They're busy already.
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:24.079
Uh, or what do I do if they just don't fill it out or if they don't like do it?
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:25.920
There's this worry like in concern.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:30.720
And I know it comes from a good place of I don't want to ask too much of my clients.
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:37.759
And so I'm just curious, like, what would you say maybe to advisors who are worried about ask?
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:39.039
Because I think that's brilliant.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.359
Ask those questions, send them out like ahead of time.
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.440
But what would you say to advisors who might be worried or concerned about uh doing that?
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.519
Yeah, and look, I'm completely biased because our technology does this.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.200
So I've I I see it a lot.
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.720
I I I watch it and there's a couple of big differences here.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.000
I think one is that there's ways to do it well.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:12.079
Doing it well means maybe asking for two or three minutes of someone's time and asking three or four questions that aren't complex, but really just kind of hit at how they're feeling in the moment.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:17.200
And then, you know, because where we go wrong is you see advisors going, I'm gonna do that.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.920
And then they start asking a lot of financial questions or so this isn't the time for that.
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:23.359
That's your job in the meeting.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.599
Let's let's focus on how people are feeling.
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:34.480
And then rather than it be, you know, feel like a survey or something, which nobody wants to do in advance of a meeting, it's just part of booking a meeting.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:36.559
I want to see you at Thursday at 10.
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:42.319
And then the positioning is really to ensure that we're focused on exactly what matters to you.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.480
Can you just answer a few questions?
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:49.519
So now it's taken me three minutes to book a meeting instead of one minute to book a meeting.
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:57.599
And we actually see incredibly high response rates on that front because of the positioning and the immediate impact.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:00.799
Now you sit down and you address what they said.
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:05.200
Well, next time 100%, they're doing that right because it drove the conversation.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:06.640
Yeah, I love that.
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:16.319
And I'm glad to hear you say that because it's validating to at least maybe some of where I come from is just like just ask and just just do it.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:19.200
It doesn't have to be this big grand thing.
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:24.160
It doesn't have to be a 20 question like survey with large text box.
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:31.440
Like it can just be, as you said, like a few just like simple questions that maybe get plugged into the calendar, like booking.
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:36.640
But having that information, I think it it's helpful just from an engagement standpoint.
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:51.839
But in my mind, too, it also communicates to the client that the advisor cares, that they they are interested, they value, you know, you client more than just like the numbers, like part.
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.079
Like they they're concerned with the whole being.
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:59.440
And so I think there's also a communication piece, but you know, both ways, but it's it does send a mess.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:05.839
I think it can send a message to clients that might help with their engagement.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:11.119
So I think most advisors, if they don't do this, sit down and say, look, is there anything that you want to talk about?
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:11.359
Right?
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:12.640
Like it's just polite.
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:13.839
That's where we start.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.920
The problem, I think, with human beings is that's a hard question to answer in the moment.
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:18.720
So hard.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:19.119
Right?
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.559
So it's like, I don't like, don't you know what we're supposed to talk about?
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.279
Or I'm here to talk about my portfolio.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:29.279
So obviously I'm gonna say that's most important because that's why I'm sitting here.
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:38.079
But again, just some well-crafted, simple questions draws out things that they wouldn't have even thought about sharing in that moment.
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:44.960
I think that's the key is how can we draw it out of people and understand the context for great advice?
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:47.039
Because that's what this is at the end of the day.
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:54.000
You know, a lot of people dismiss engagement strategies because it feels too soft or it's just a nice thing.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:56.240
It actually helps you deliver better advice.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.759
And at the, you know, the end of the day, that's what we're trying to do here.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.240
So I don't see it as that soft at all.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:03.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:13.599
So we're kind of in this vein of asking about, you know, from a meeting standpoint, asking a few questions on like the front and prior to the meeting, getting some feedback there.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:28.799
But I know there's other ways that advisors and you guys like seek to get client satisfaction and feedback and some of where, you know, conversations that I've been a part of, it's how often do we get feedback from clients?
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:34.079
Like how often like should we be asking, where does this, where does this fit into our workflow?
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.279
Um it does have to ultimately.
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:38.400
It does, right?
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.119
You know, but where should we put it like into our process?
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.720
It makes me laugh just our the beginnings of our conversation there.
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.880
But I would be curious to know like your answer there.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:56.319
Like, how often should advisors be seeking out feedback, whether it's satisfaction or what have you?
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:56.880
Yeah.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:01.440
So I mean, the first thing I would think about is differentiating feedback and input.
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.920
So feedback is about the advisor.
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:04.880
How am I doing?
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:05.200
Right?
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:06.960
Input is more about the client.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:07.759
How are you doing?
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:08.480
What are you feeling?
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:09.279
What are you thinking?
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:09.519
Right.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:14.160
And though it sounds nuanced, but it does change the cadence a little bit.
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:24.720
So if we're thinking feedback, and I would include in that, like you said, net promoter score, satisfaction, maybe expectations and preferences, you know, how do you want to digest content?
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:25.920
What topics are of interest?
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.559
Like there's a set of questions that you can ask.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:34.000
I would say the vast majority of advisors that we work with are doing something once a year on that.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:50.880
The difference is they're doing a deep dive every two to three years and more of a quick check-in in intervening years, so that they're not, you know, the worst mistake we see is people asking the same questions of their clients every year when it's not a fluid data point.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:54.400
So if I said to you, Ashley, how often do you want to meet?
00:30:54.480 --> 00:31:03.279
And, you know, this year you said twice a year, there's a really good chance next year it's going to be twice a year, like unless something's changed in your life, right?
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.079
So we don't need to ask all those questions every year.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:07.920
Every two to three years, you're good.
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.000
So that's the feedback part of it.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:13.839
The input is more at those points in time.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:23.440
So it could be before a meeting, it could be right after they're onboarded, it could be after an event, you know, it's just that one-to-one point in time.
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.200
You know, you should get it that way if it's fluid data.
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:28.880
So feelings.
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:35.200
That the other big mistake we see is people will do their annual survey and they'll ask about, you know, what are you concerned about?
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:36.720
For example, it's a good question.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:38.079
We get some great data.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:42.319
That data could be stale a week from now because we're human, right?
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:48.960
So we've got to match the type of data we're trying to get with the cadence and when it's when it's asked.
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:55.359
But that feedback process, you know, again, you know, every two to three years takes seven, eight minutes to complete.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:59.599
In the intervening years, something that maybe takes five max.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:05.599
It's not a lot to ask for clients, but my goodness, do you get good data on, you know?
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:13.279
I'm curious from like a starting out point, if there are advisors that are like, oh, like Julie just blew my mind.
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.240
Feedback like versus input, right?
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:17.680
What?
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:18.799
What?
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:22.240
Like that is a I've not thought about it in that way.
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:31.039
I'm curious, maybe some starting points, easy just starting points for let's just say in on the input side.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.599
Yeah, what are one to two maybe just starting points?
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:38.319
Well, I think on the true input side, it's it's more about that point in time.
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.920
So it would probably go to before a meeting or something like that.
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:43.279
Like we just talked about.
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:45.279
So what are your concerns?
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.039
What is what's your level of confidence?
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:51.039
I mean, there are ways to actually ask these questions, but that's what you're trying to understand.
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:53.759
And sometimes you can mix the two in a survey.
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:54.480
That's okay.
00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:00.240
But if I took the starting point, so most advisors I talk to say they don't have anything in place right now.
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:03.759
And they're like, I feel like I should be getting something more from my clients.
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:08.079
The majority do start with some sort of point-in-time survey of all clients.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:12.559
Doesn't have to be long, but let's understand satisfaction.
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:17.599
Let's understand confidence of our clients, like how are you doing on that front?
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.359
Let's understand what they're interested in learning about and talking about.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:30.079
And maybe, and for most, I'd say there are ways to tease out referral opportunities as part of that, still within a, you know, five, six questions, maybe.
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:35.680
It's it's an easy place to start, but you you really get incredible data back.
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:41.200
So now you've got, you know, what they care about, so you can, you know, create some content around that.
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:48.720
You know what they're interested in, so you can focus on that in the in the conversation, and you know how you're doing and what you can improve on.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:50.799
Quick, easy place to start.
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:51.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.960
I would I know that sometimes, and I'm guilty of this too.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:34:00.960
We hear something and then we think we have to do a complete overhaul or we have to do all the things.
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:01.920
I get it.
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:06.400
Sometimes that comes from a place of excitement, sometimes it's from a place of panic.
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:17.119
Um, but I think having those points that you mentioned, just kind of one or two places, like let's just focus there and then kind of build and grow.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:25.280
On the on the feedback side, would there be anything different then that you would share as far as some kind of easy, simple starting places?
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:25.760
Yeah.
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:32.320
And I think those, you know, again, typical feedback is going to be satisfaction, net promoter score, that that sort of thing.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.320
So you could do that together.
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:53.840
Like you could not as much as I separated them, if I was just starting out and wanted to do one simple thing and not create a whole big process around it, I would do that five, six question survey of clients that mixed a little of the two just to dip your toe in the water, not have to create more process around that.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:59.760
And it's gonna it's gonna feed um some really, you know, powerful, powerful insights.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:05.920
You know, and then just you know, you position it in terms of what what's in it for the client and why this matters.
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:08.559
And it can be just doing it can be a benefit.
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:14.960
Like there's interesting connections between asking for feedback and more referrals, just asking for it, which is kind of crazy.
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.840
Yeah, I like that part, just do it part, right?
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.239
Sometimes we just have to get in there and just do it.
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:27.440
This interesting fear, you may be able to answer this um better than I, but I've often asked people why they don't ask for feedback.
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.320
And sometimes they'll say, Well, people are over surveyed.
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.480
And I have lots of, I can explain that away.
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:40.639
It's often fear like what if somebody actually tells me I'm doing a bad job, which has never been borne out in our data, by the way, ever.
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:46.320
But this there's a funny sense of fear, I think, that we have around this.
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:48.559
Oh, yeah, it's risky, right?
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:53.119
And I I think it, you know, it for my, I'm like, well, it's a risk.
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:58.719
And from a place of vulnerability or emotional risk, we're not great as humans.
00:35:59.039 --> 00:35:59.440
Yeah, right.
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:00.559
We're not quite built that way.
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.079
We're not built that way, right?
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:06.639
I'm maybe oversimplifying it there, but I'm like, yeah, feedback is scary.
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:08.159
It's risky, it's vulnerable.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:14.639
So that would make sense to me, but still, it still can be helpful and and even even great.
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:20.800
I often remind people that if someone is dissatisfied, they're still dissatisfied whether you asked them or not.
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:25.280
Like you didn't actually change anything about that, right?
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:31.840
And I've been asked this question could it cause somebody to like almost go, oh yeah, they're not doing a great job.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.199
No, don't worry about that.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:37.280
Like, that's somebody trying to overcomplicate and and excuse it away.
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.719
But oh gosh, I that is so brilliant, Julie.
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:42.880
They are gonna be, they are still dissatisfied.
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:44.880
Whether you ask or not, they're still dissatisfied.
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:45.360
Yeah.
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:46.719
Oh, that is so brilliant.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:57.760
Well, sadly, our time is wrapping up, but I want to connect some of what we've just been talking about to, you know, I'd love for you to do a little bit of self-promotion here with absolute engagement.
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:04.960
Tell us like where people can find you, tell us all of those things and how you guys can be helpful for advisors and firms.
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:12.480
Yeah, so look, we live our lives around this core concept of delivering a deeply engaging experience.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:16.079
The piece in that process, because there's many ways to do that.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:22.239
Piece that we play, and the thing we've always believed is that advisors don't have the right data to do this.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:28.400
Like in some ways, they're drowning in data, in some ways they don't have the right data on how people are thinking and feeling.
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:38.559
So, what we do and how we position what we do is accelerating growth and engagement using the data, real-time data on the true needs of prospects and clients.
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:43.039
So, we've built out tools to make that easy to do.
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:46.159
And that's called the Absolute Engagement Engine.
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:49.360
You can learn about that at absoluteengagement.com.
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:59.840
But we don't try to solve all the world's problems, but we do try to really lean in on the fact that most advisors are just missing opportunities because they don't have this data.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:01.119
Yeah, I love that.
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.519
We'll make sure that we include that link in the show notes.
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:12.400
And Julie, if people want to just hang out with you, um read a little bit more about you, other than heading over to the website, where else can they find you?
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:13.519
I'm on LinkedIn.
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.159
We try to share everything on LinkedIn.
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.280
And uh on the site, we also have our blog.
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:21.519
So uh there's no commitment there.
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:22.719
You don't have to book a meeting.
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:26.320
You can just subscribe and we'll send out all the new research there.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:26.960
Wonderful.
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:31.760
Well, thank you so much, Julie, for coming on and sharing all of your insights, all of your wisdom.
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:41.760
And thank you for tuning in today and allowing Julie and I into your mind, into your ears, and being a little bit of part of your week here.
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:46.880
If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love to keep the connection going.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:52.800
You can find me on LinkedIn at Ashley Kwame, where I share weekly insights on the human side of planning.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:39:03.039
And if you want even more Ashley Kwame or even more Julie, you can head over to the show notes to find all of the links where you can connect and stay with us.
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:10.159
Make sure, though, that most importantly, you follow the show so that you never miss a future conversation like this one.
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:15.039
And as always, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:20.400
Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.519
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond.
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:31.519
I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth.
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:37.119
If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:42.559
Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference.
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:50.719
For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyondthefp.com.
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:57.760
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00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:01.360
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00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:03.760
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00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.159
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00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:14.000
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