Conscience, Cosmos, and the Cross: Answering the Internet’s Toughest Moral Challenges

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Welcome in, pull up close,
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you're hearing Pilgrim's Gray
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Chronicles. All right, ladies and
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gentlemen, welcome to the Pilgrim's Gray Inn. Robert Clark, your host.
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If you enjoy this program, please, uh, take the time to
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subscribe, Leave a comment, share one someplace,
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or, you know, leave a 5-star review at one of our streaming platform
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shows, whether you listen to Apple or Spotify
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or iHeartRadio, any one of them. Uh, and we greatly
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appreciate all of your support anytime any of you do these things. It's just,
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I only mention it because, uh, there's some
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statistic that says that less than 10% of people do it.
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So it's just a reminder, a friendly reminder. So today,
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um, I've had a lot of people sending me things,
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questions from the internet, so I wanted to address some
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of them. What I'm going to do is I've
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got 4 quick videos that I'm going to go over dealing
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with subjects of morality.
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They're just basically— people sometimes see things
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on the internet and it challenges them and they're not
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sure how best to address it. So I thought,
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well, instead of just typing a bunch of answers to individual
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things, I would just do it here and speak out in
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sort of a, I guess, sort of a, a Charlie Kirk type
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of situation where people are asking questions and then responding to the
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videos that they send. Uh,
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sometimes I might pause the video, other short
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videos that people have sent. And I chose 4 of the
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most common ones. A lot of them cover the same subject,
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but I just chose these because they
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seem to be the ones that come up the most often. And so
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I don't get long-winded, I will, I will just jump into this and
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we'll get started. First one is Christopher Hitchens here.
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Let me swap views here. So you can see,
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well, that's not, that's Frank Turek, obviously. But there's
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this, there was obviously a debate between the two of them.
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And here we have Frank Turek
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and Christopher Hitchens in this one,
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because it's obviously somebody who supports Christopher Hitchens who posted this
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short reel. It basically is just
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his point in addressing what Frank Turek had to say
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to him. And I would like to respond to that. And so I might pause
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it here and there if you don't mind. So let's,
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let's go ahead and jump into this. If God
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does not exist, why do all people have a fixed moral obligation to love and
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not murder? How do molecules in motion have any authority to tell you
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how to behave? When you do something wrong, whose standard are you breaking?
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Who are you displeasing? The carbon atom? The benzene molecule?
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Who? Question is being asked. Okay, so right there,
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um, I know Hitchens hasn't spoken yet, but that is
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exactly the right real question to ask,
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because we're not asking whether atheists can be moral,
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right? Which oftentimes that's the tack they take.
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What we're asking is what makes morality objectively
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binding, right? What assigns it moral
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value and duty? So, because if we're only
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matter in motion, then we may have
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moral feelings, but feelings do not create this
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ought to do something about it, right?
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So let's continue. Sorry. Socrates answered it
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like this when he was on trial for his life, uh,
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accused of blasphemy, by the way.
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He said that he had an inner daemon, was the way he put it.
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Not demon, a daemon, a spirit, an inner critic, a conscience
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would be one way of putting it. And that he knew enough to know,
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even when he was making the best speech of his life,
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that if he was making a point that was somehow dishonest or incomplete
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or shady, the daemon would tell him, yeah, that was clever, but you shouldn't
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have tried it. Okay. So That
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is just silliness to me. But okay, so naming conscience
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a daemon does not explain conscience. Um,
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an inner warning, uh, can tell us that we have moral
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awareness. Uh, it does not tell us where the authority behind
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that awareness comes from, and that's the difference. So this—
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a sensation of guilt is not itself a foundation for objective guilt.
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Is what I'm saying. Plus, we know that God's laws are written on our hearts.
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So this, in a sense, is Hitchens admitting that without realizing
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it, though he would never say that it was God's laws written on our
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heart. He's just calling it an inner daemon, which is just bizarre
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to me. So let's continue. He knew any,
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any person of average moral equipment has the same
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knowledge. I hope you'll— if you don't, I'm very sorry for you.
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Um, Adam Smith called it— okay,
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any person of average moral equipment has the same knowledge.
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Look, I agree, most people know basic moral truths,
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but knowledge of morality and an explanation for morality
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are totally different. He keeps confusing it, as most atheists
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do. So the Christian claim is not that atheists
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can't recognize good and evil, right? It is that they
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are borrowing from a moral reality their
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worldview cannot ground. From their point
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of view, things should just be as they are. There is just is.
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There is no ought.
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All right. So let's go. The internal witness who
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we all have to have a conversation with all the time.
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Um, it's been— C.S. Lewis decided
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to call it conscience and to attribute it to the, to the divine, but he
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didn't improve on what Adam Smith said in Theory of Moral Sentiments or what Socrates
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said when— Okay, so first of all, C.S. Lewis is correct.
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Look, um, Lewis did not just give Adam Smith's
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idea a religious label of conscience. He argued
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that conscience points beyond instinct
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and social custom because it judges Both.
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Sometimes instinct says protect yourself, society says go
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along, but conscience says no, you ought
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to do what is right. See the difference? And that is moral
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law, not just an impulse or an animalistic feeling
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developed through evolution. I hope you see
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the difference. Let's go. When standing trial for his own,
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for his own life, it's been sometimes colloquially defined as why do
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people behave well when nobody's looking. I don't believe there's anyone
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in this hall who doesn't know what I mean by that. Why,
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when it won't do you any good, will you decide, I could have
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kept that wallet I found on the back of the cab seat, but I'm not
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going to, I'm going to turn it in, I'm going to see if— find its
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real possessor. There are people— Okay,
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all right, so that example actually strengthens,
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in my opinion, the Christian case. If morality is survival, pleasure, or social
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advantage, keeping the wallet may be the rational choice when you can
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get away with it, But we know you still ought—
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O-U-G-H-T— ought to return it. And that
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ought makes sense if there is a moral
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lawgiver to whom we are accountable.
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Otherwise, it's just a matter of opinion and the strong survive.
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There really is no ought in evolution.
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Okay. To whom those thoughts do not occur,
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who are deaf to that idea, who only think of themselves, who wouldn't worry about
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the internal daemon or censor or companion.
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And there are, of course, people who only get pleasure from being unpleasant
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to other people and inflicting cruelty on them. The first group
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we call the sociopathic and the second group we call the psychopathic. My only—
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and they occur in nature and in society. My only problem
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is with those who— Okay, uh, the problem
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is on atheism, what makes them morally defective rather than merely
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different, right? If morality arose— excuse
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me— through nature and evolution, then they are also products of nature
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and evolution. You can say their behavior is dangerous or socially harmful, but you
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have not shown why it is objectively evil.
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And in a different evolutionary world, maybe this evil
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thing would be called good. See, there's no
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objective basis for what he's saying.
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In fact, he's really scooting all around God.
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He's basically admitting that God and the idea of it is
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correct. I just don't want to recognize God because I don't like
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him. All right, let's wrap this one up. You think that they're
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all made in the image of God? If God does not— well, because they
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are. So again, sorry, I kind of
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cut off that last 3 seconds, but what he said is his problem is with
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people who think psychopaths are made in God's image.
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Well, here's the thing. Christianity does not say every human
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reflects God's image morally without distortion, right?
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It says every human retains human dignity because he bears
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God's image, while every human being is fallen
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and morally broken. Catholic— sorry, if God does not exist— so
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sorry. Um, so morally broken.
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So psychopathy is not evidence against the image of God.
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All it is is a tragic example of how deeply this
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fall has damaged us, right? We may all be God's creation, but we're not all
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God's children, and many of us choose to live
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apart from him and his laws, right?
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So I would say Hitchens rightly recognizes conscience,
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self-sacrifice, guilt, and real evil. The problem
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is, um, those are not an answer to the moral argument.
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They're the very things the moral argument is trying to
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ontologically explain. Christianity says God's moral law
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is written on the human heart, which is exactly why even
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the atheists cannot live as though cruelty and murder
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are just personal preferences. But without God,
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that's all they are, whether they want to admit it or not. They cannot
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ground them objectively, though I know many have tried to.
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Anyway, so let's move on
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to this next one. This is a video. I've seen this guy
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before. I don't remember what his name is, but I've seen him on
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TikTok where he challenges Christians apparently to debate
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him that, you know, if God is real, he's a jerk
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or there is no God and so on. And Christians get intimidated
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because many of them don't know why they believe what they believe. And so they
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send me emails to respond to this, which is great
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because now after listening to what I
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say or going and reading your Bible afterwards or whatever, hopefully you'll
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hear what they're saying and challenging and be able to respond to it properly.
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Right. We should be able to give an answer A loving answer for
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why we believe what we believe, the hope that lies within us. Correct.
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So let's give this a go, shall we, and see what
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these gentlemen have to say. I'm sure it
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will be absolutely fascinating. Oh, am I getting the spin of death
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here? I mean, people don't— people don't
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die for a lie. Yes, they do. They die for lies all
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the time. Some of them die for things that they know are lies. And some
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people die for things that they believe are true. But okay,
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so I just want to say real quick, that's correct.
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People die for false beliefs all the time, but that is not
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the Christian claim here. The question is whether the
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original eyewitnesses would die for a resurrection account
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that they personally knew they were lying about
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or had invented to fool people.
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Okay, so keep that in mind as you listen to him shovel out the
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rest of his Barbra Streisand, but ultimately aren't
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true. In order for you to say that, you would have to denounce every
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martyr from every religion and anybody who willingly
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sacrificed their life for someone else or something else.
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It is cartoonishly ridiculous to say that people don't die for a lie unless you
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think that somehow all religions are true.
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You, sir, know that it's a lie. You believe
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that it's a lie, but no, sir, people believe that it was true. Reuben,
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no, sir, I don't necessarily believe that it's
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a lie. I just know that people have in fact died for a lie.
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People have stated they've died, that they are going to die for a lie.
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There were people who advocated lying. I'm not saying it's a lie.
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I'm asking you to demonstrate that it is in fact true. And if you'd have
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listened, I acknowledge that people die for things that they believe to be true,
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even if they are wrong. I mean, okay,
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well, well,
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Okay, so this response is arguing against something Christians are
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not claiming, including Reuben, although he's not articulating
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it well. And I think that's what these people count on on
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their TikTok videos. So of course people die for false beliefs.
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Muslims, Mormons, cult members, political radicals,
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and soldiers. We've all died believing something that
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was false. Right? We may have been lied
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to, but that proves only that people can die for what they sincerely believe,
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right? But the Christian argument about the apostles is
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a different fruit altogether. It's completely different because the apostles
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were not later converts who inherited a religious
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claim from someone else, right? They were the men claiming something entirely
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new, to have personally seen the risen Jesus,
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spoken with him, eaten with him, and received their message
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directly from him. So the question is not, well, can a person die
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for a false belief? Of course they can. They do it all the time,
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like he said. The question is, would the original eyewitnesses knowingly
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endure painful death,
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persecution, martyrdom, imprisonment, and death for
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a resurrection story they themselves had fabricated? That is
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an entirely different category, and these guys know it.
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It's very disingenuous to argue the way they
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did in this video. And I think Rubin was trying to make exactly that
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distinction, though he did not get the chance to articulate
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it fully before he was interrupted, and he wasn't doing it very well. But the
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atheist keeps treating 2 very different categories
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as though they're the same thing. Right? A later follower
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dying for something he believes versus the original eyewitnesses
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dying for a scam or a claim they would personally know was a
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lie and invented and false if
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it were false. So it's just a rhetorical switch.
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You know, think of a used car salesman,
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you know, changing the terms of the deal while insisting he answered
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your question. You know, of course people die for false beliefs,
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you know, and that was never the point. The issue is whether the
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men who proclaimed we saw the risen Christ would suffer and die rather
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than admit, you know, we made it up. You know,
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if Christianity began with a deliberate lie, the apostles would not merely be
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mistaken, right? They would be the people who knew it was false.
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They would know there was no empty tomb. They, you know, no appearances,
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no risen Christ, yet their message did not change under threat
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or torture. They said in Acts 4:20, we cannot but
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speak of what we have seen and heard.
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And Paul puts the issue plainly in 1 Corinthians 15:14-15,
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if Christ was not raised, the apostles were false witnesses about God.
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Christianity does not ask you to die for a story you receive centuries later.
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It rests on the testimony of people who claimed firsthand knowledge and
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had every worldly reason to recant if they
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were just inventing a scam. So yes, people die for falsehoods
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they think are true, but people do not ordinarily
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suffer and die when they are,
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uh, completing or engaging
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in a fraud they personally created and know is false.
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That is the distinction that these 2 guys avoided,
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and they know it. So pretty lame. Pretty lame, guys.
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And Reuben, if you ever listen to this video,
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hopefully you will do better next time.
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All right. So I don't remember what
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this guy's name is. I just know he's a British talk show host who doesn't
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approve of our Second Amendment, but he's about to interview
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Neil deGrasse Tyson. And this is an interesting one.
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Because I think Neil is an imposter scientist put out there by
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the powers that be to, uh, just be a popular guy.
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Um, he's supported financially by that, and so he gets
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a lot of exposure and so on. It just— it
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works with the human condition. If you see something with a lot of exposure,
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we have a tendency to herd think and think it's correct or follow it or
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think it's awesome. It's why bots exist on on the internet.
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You see, oh well, he's got so many views, or he has
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all these people that suddenly seem to be liking him.
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So that's Neil deGrasse in a nutshell, I believe.
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So let's listen to what they have to say here.
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I'll try not to pause it too much here. What was there before
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nothing? We don't know. That's the whole point of science. No, but the whole point
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of science— that's why you don't know the answer. That's why I believe in God.
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There has to be a superior thing out there which can answer that
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question. That's not an invocation of logic. That's an invocation of what philosophers
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have historically called the God of the gaps. Okay,
19:12.601 --> 19:15.909
I'm so sick of that one. Um, no,
19:16.696 --> 19:19.828
this is not a gap in our knowledge of a natural process.
19:20.406 --> 19:23.827
It is a question about why there is a natural world with time, matter,
19:24.181 --> 19:26.799
energy, and laws for science to study in the first place.
19:28.044 --> 19:33.735
They love to use this God of the gaps theory because they discount creation
19:34.235 --> 19:37.658
and God right from the get-go. So even if
19:37.674 --> 19:40.872
things were pointing to it, they wouldn't acknowledge it.
19:40.952 --> 19:44.342
They would just have their faith that science will eventually produce an answer,
19:44.406 --> 19:47.717
right? Pretty disingenuous. Let's continue. The God of
19:48.217 --> 19:51.301
the gaps is you look at where science has yet to tread, where science has
19:51.478 --> 19:54.692
yet to figure out, and you say, wow, that's mysterious. I don't know how that
19:55.192 --> 19:59.057
works. God must have done it. There's a long, storied history of people thinking
19:59.105 --> 20:02.378
this way. Let's go back to AD 150. Claudius Ptolemy,
20:02.555 --> 20:06.181
Alexandrian mathematician polymath, he said after looking at
20:06.681 --> 20:10.224
the planets going back and forth, not fully understanding why they did this,
20:10.497 --> 20:14.139
when I trace at my pleasure the windings to and fro of
20:14.639 --> 20:18.037
the heavenly bodies, I no longer touch Earth with my feet. I stand
20:18.537 --> 20:22.308
in the presence of Zeus himself and take my fill of ambrosia.
20:22.469 --> 20:26.217
What was— oh, okay. All right,
20:26.250 --> 20:30.453
so that's the actor at work, right? Very articulate,
20:31.331 --> 20:34.589
uh, and apparently persuasive or convincing to people who send me this.
20:35.089 --> 20:37.297
So look, um,
20:39.199 --> 20:42.214
first, what was there before nothing then?
20:43.196 --> 20:46.677
You know, and it's not really the question that should
20:47.177 --> 20:51.189
be asked, but Nothing has no properties. It has no power or
20:51.689 --> 20:54.787
potential and no ability to produce anything. So the question is really,
20:56.173 --> 21:00.409
why is there something rather than nothing? So asking what
21:00.441 --> 21:03.746
was there before nothing is just kind
21:04.246 --> 21:07.027
of a bad way of asking things. But that being said,
21:08.611 --> 21:12.166
saying God is the best explanation is not God of the gaps.
21:13.056 --> 21:16.813
God of the gaps means that, oh well, we don't understand a natural
21:16.845 --> 21:20.843
process, therefore God did it. But the argument here is not about
21:20.859 --> 21:24.487
an unexplained process inside the universe. It's about the existence
21:24.987 --> 21:28.453
of the universe, space, time, matter, energy, and the laws
21:28.983 --> 21:32.643
science itself must assume in order to operate. So science can
21:33.143 --> 21:36.529
investigate events and causes within space and time. But if space and time had a
21:37.029 --> 21:40.300
beginning, which I— everything points to it, being correct,
21:43.774 --> 21:46.926
then the cause cannot itself be a
21:46.974 --> 21:50.528
part of the universe. It can't be material or spatial or temporal. It has to
21:51.028 --> 21:54.932
be timeless, spaceless, immaterial, enormously powerful,
21:54.948 --> 21:57.140
and capable of causing the universe to exist.
21:58.347 --> 22:01.373
And by that, what I mean is it has to be personal. And why personal?
22:01.422 --> 22:05.433
Well, because an impersonal, eternal set of conditions would
22:05.497 --> 22:09.207
produce its effect eternally. The conditions would either
22:09.272 --> 22:12.468
be there or they would not. You see what I'm saying?
22:13.399 --> 22:16.885
If it's just a set of conditions, but the universe is not eternal,
22:17.302 --> 22:21.013
it has a finite past. And we can show this both from science
22:21.157 --> 22:24.353
and philosophy. So a timeless cause producing
22:24.466 --> 22:27.244
a temporal effect points to a free act of will,
22:27.694 --> 22:30.923
something personal with a mind that can choose to begin it all.
22:31.472 --> 22:35.035
A personal creator choosing to create from a
22:35.535 --> 22:37.248
timeless state. So this is not,
22:39.100 --> 22:43.295
you know, we don't know, therefore God. It is the universe had to begin
22:43.650 --> 22:47.249
to exist, and whatever begins to exist requires an adequate cause.
22:48.330 --> 22:52.093
And the biblical answer is not, in my opinion, anti-science. It is the foundation
22:52.432 --> 22:56.131
beneath science, right? In the beginning, God created the heavens
22:56.324 --> 22:59.892
and the earth. Genesis 1:1. And John 1:3 says,
23:00.715 --> 23:03.765
all things were made through him, by him, through him,
23:03.894 --> 23:08.046
for him. And look, bringing up Ptolemy really
23:08.483 --> 23:12.078
doesn't change anything. It's just rhetoric. A man
23:12.127 --> 23:14.119
being wrong about planetary motion,
23:15.850 --> 23:19.633
or right, whether he's right or wrong, it doesn't disprove God. It only proves that
23:19.649 --> 23:22.161
human models of planetary motion can be corrected, right?
23:23.359 --> 23:27.141
Explaining how creation works never removes the need to explain
23:27.255 --> 23:29.333
why anything at all exists.
23:30.840 --> 23:34.139
You see, but people like Neil deGrasse Tyson are
23:34.996 --> 23:39.054
experts on using rhetorical flourish
23:39.102 --> 23:42.250
to make
23:42.750 --> 23:45.947
you feel stupid because you don't believe what he says.
23:46.745 --> 23:50.614
Does that make sense? They're just masters at verbal manipulation.
23:50.807 --> 23:53.843
Just look beyond it and just think it through and you'll see.
23:54.742 --> 23:58.324
And so this last video is
23:58.581 --> 24:02.259
Hitchens again, and this one is about—
24:03.736 --> 24:06.371
well, I'll tell you what, I will just play it through.
24:06.611 --> 24:10.530
And when he says something particularly interesting
24:10.563 --> 24:13.518
or stupid, I'll respond. Here we go.
24:14.000 --> 24:16.393
People have the nerve to ask me, well, if you don't believe in heaven and
24:16.425 --> 24:20.598
hell, what gives your life meaning? Do you not detect a slight insult
24:21.098 --> 24:24.385
as well as a slight irrationality to that question? Uh, maybe.
24:25.171 --> 24:28.075
I mean, I guess if I were an atheist, I would be insulted by it.
24:28.845 --> 24:33.049
Um, but the thing is, it would only be insulting if Christians meant
24:33.257 --> 24:36.370
atheists cannot experience love, purpose, beauty, or sacrifice.
24:36.883 --> 24:40.220
I mean, they clearly can. The real question is whether in an
24:40.397 --> 24:42.547
atheistic universe, like they claim it is,
24:43.622 --> 24:46.734
those things have objective and lasting meaning of any sort,
24:46.830 --> 24:50.443
or If they are just ultimately temporary preferences produced
24:50.943 --> 24:54.666
by accidental banging together of molecules,
24:54.714 --> 24:58.503
matter in motion, right? Because that's
24:58.552 --> 25:02.421
what they believe. Why would any of that even matter to them? And by
25:02.921 --> 25:06.387
the way, at some point, the heat death of the universe, nobody will remember any
25:06.403 --> 25:10.193
of it anyway. And there's nothing to be accountable to and you'll be forgotten.
25:10.995 --> 25:15.131
Life is meaningless ultimately. In an objective sense with atheism.
25:16.094 --> 25:20.123
All right, let's continue. You mean I'd have much
25:20.220 --> 25:23.461
more meaning in my life if I thought that I would die and I'd
25:23.542 --> 25:24.751
be given one chance,
25:27.133 --> 25:29.846
uh, would have been given while I was alive one chance, if I'd made a
25:29.894 --> 25:32.298
mistake I'd be condemned eternally?
25:33.554 --> 25:37.285
Well, that is not the Christian gospel, right? No one is condemned because he made
25:37.317 --> 25:41.776
one isolated mistake. Right. So scripture
25:42.547 --> 25:46.142
says all have sinned, right? Romans 3:23. And salvation
25:46.190 --> 25:50.234
is not earned by flawless performance anyway, that he always
25:50.266 --> 25:53.925
seems to bring up. Christ came precisely because none
25:54.102 --> 25:57.617
of us can save ourselves by moral record,
25:58.034 --> 26:01.966
what we do, right? He loved us enough to— and realized
26:02.466 --> 26:04.903
our condition. Hitchens ignores that.
26:08.307 --> 26:12.226
So, you know, having myopic blind
26:12.242 --> 26:15.968
thinking and choosing to focus on
26:16.468 --> 26:19.742
slanderous versions of God probably helps him to stick
26:19.822 --> 26:23.564
to his self-imposed limitations
26:24.064 --> 26:27.274
on belief. Anyway, let's continue. That, that was the kind of judge I'd be
26:27.774 --> 26:31.176
facing. And in the meantime, it would be advisable to live my life in
26:31.208 --> 26:34.451
propitiation of this supernatural dictator. That would
26:34.499 --> 26:36.216
lend more meaning to my life.
26:37.548 --> 26:40.437
Supernatural dictator. Okay, again, uh,
26:41.159 --> 26:44.899
it just reverses Christianity. We, we don't propitiate
26:44.931 --> 26:47.708
God by religious performance in hopes he might accept us.
26:49.008 --> 26:52.394
He misses the point. God himself provided the
26:52.894 --> 26:56.888
propitiation for sin in Christ, right? God shows his love for us in
26:57.388 --> 27:00.584
that while we were Still sinners, Christ died for us.
27:01.005 --> 27:05.181
Romans 5:8. The cross is not man trying to calm
27:05.375 --> 27:09.192
an angry tyrant. It is the holy God making a way
27:09.804 --> 27:14.103
to forgive rebels without pretending evil doesn't
27:14.119 --> 27:16.583
matter. He's a God of love and justice.
27:18.400 --> 27:21.966
Hitchens apparently doesn't understand that either, or doesn't want to.
27:22.609 --> 27:26.690
Let's continue. Then my view, counter to Pascal, contra Pascal,
27:27.108 --> 27:30.637
that if there's any such judge, I'll be able to say, at least I never
27:31.137 --> 27:35.834
faked belief in you in order to win your approbation, sir or
27:36.334 --> 27:39.729
ma'am, as the case might be. And if you are as reported,
27:39.778 --> 27:43.524
you'll have detected that those were my thoughts, and at least I wasn't a hypocrite.
27:44.352 --> 27:46.482
Um, okay, well,
27:47.967 --> 27:51.034
um, God doesn't ask anyone to fake belief.
27:51.357 --> 27:53.439
He commands repentance and faith because truth matters.
27:55.441 --> 27:58.982
And by the way, sincerity is not the same as innocence. So a man can
27:59.482 --> 28:02.829
sincerely reject a diagnosis. That doesn't make the diagnosis
28:03.329 --> 28:07.082
false. And God sees not only whether a person is hypocritical, but whether
28:07.195 --> 28:11.103
he responded honestly to the truth and light that he was given,
28:11.425 --> 28:15.208
right? I mean, I know
28:15.708 --> 28:19.393
he's primarily responding to Pascal's wager, which I'm
28:19.893 --> 28:23.852
not a big fan of that argument anyway. But it's still a very short-sighted
28:24.352 --> 28:26.920
response to Pascal's wager. Anyway, let's continue.
28:27.226 --> 28:30.968
Pascal says no, at least pretend you believe. How can you? It's win-win.
28:31.386 --> 28:35.224
This is corrupt reasoning. It's the, it's the reasoning of a huckster,
28:35.803 --> 28:39.144
and it lends no meaning to life at all. Still,
28:39.593 --> 28:42.244
okay, I would sort of agree with that, uh,
28:42.565 --> 28:46.147
but the point is Pascal's wager is not the foundation of Christianity,
28:46.323 --> 28:50.482
and It is often in most discussions completely oversimplified,
28:50.514 --> 28:54.336
just like Hitchens is doing here. Christianity does not tell people
28:54.368 --> 28:58.125
to pretend, obviously. It calls them to examine the evidence, count the cost,
28:58.205 --> 29:02.123
and trust Christ, which was Pascal's point. A God who knows
29:02.155 --> 29:05.848
the heart can't be tricked by someone performing belief
29:06.089 --> 29:08.626
merely as some sort of insurance policy.
29:09.124 --> 29:11.484
Pascal knew this. He was trying to make a point.
29:14.148 --> 29:17.636
Um, and I think Hitchens misses it because
29:17.652 --> 29:21.123
he just has this giant chip on his shoulder. He views everything through that
29:21.623 --> 29:25.220
lens. And so every Christian doing such things is a huckster,
29:25.317 --> 29:28.389
used car salesman, or some piece of trash. Let's continue.
29:28.745 --> 29:32.270
Still, why do I care? For example, why do I care? Why do I care
29:32.770 --> 29:36.908
about Rwanda? Why do I care about my Iranian friends fighting theocracy?
29:36.973 --> 29:40.074
Why do I give up my own time to them? Well, I'll tell you why,
29:40.779 --> 29:43.439
um, and I hope it— and I say it, I suppose, at the risk of
29:43.939 --> 29:46.339
embarrassment. It gives me great pleasure to do so.
29:47.589 --> 29:50.810
I like to feel that I'm— since we only have one life to— okay,
29:50.954 --> 29:54.079
I like to feel— sorry, I got a phone call and that threw me off.
29:54.960 --> 29:57.011
Um, what he was saying here,
29:58.325 --> 30:01.674
um, why does he care about Rwanda or
30:01.786 --> 30:06.050
oppressed people? Um, it gives him great pleasure. So Um,
30:06.584 --> 30:09.706
but does it really matter from his
30:11.517 --> 30:15.042
ontological foundation of atheism? Uh, look, I'm glad he cares,
30:15.219 --> 30:17.699
but if you notice, he answers,
30:18.761 --> 30:22.449
um, or he's answered a question about his personal motivation,
30:22.920 --> 30:25.431
not a question about moral obligation,
30:26.046 --> 30:30.048
right? He says it gives me pleasure to help and
30:30.583 --> 30:33.328
explains you know, why he helped, right?
30:33.681 --> 30:37.825
But it does not establish why he ought to do it, or why
30:37.857 --> 30:41.326
a person who enjoys cruelty is objectively wrong, right?
30:41.615 --> 30:44.249
It's just his personal preference is the point.
30:44.940 --> 30:48.056
So he is no more right in what he's doing, other than it
30:48.556 --> 30:51.814
gives him pleasure to do it, than a cruel person who might help a Rwandan
30:51.911 --> 30:55.444
die by starving them further because he enjoys it. That's his personal
30:55.944 --> 31:00.135
preference. Do you see the point? And neither one of them has any objective reason,
31:00.344 --> 31:03.526
if they are an atheist, for why they're doing what they're doing. They're just going
31:03.879 --> 31:07.575
with whatever their personal preference and what gives
31:07.800 --> 31:11.592
them pleasure in any particular given circumstance. Great way
31:12.092 --> 31:15.754
to live. It gives me great pleasure to do so. I like to feel that
31:16.254 --> 31:19.723
I'm— since we only have one life to live, that I can help people make
31:19.788 --> 31:22.905
it free as best I can.
31:23.571 --> 31:27.125
And assist them in their real struggle for liberty, which in
31:27.223 --> 31:30.208
its most essential form is the struggle for life.
31:30.548 --> 31:32.424
Okay. Excuse me.
31:34.591 --> 31:38.229
Look, what he's saying right there about,
31:38.245 --> 31:41.733
you know, having one life, helping people be free,
31:41.959 --> 31:46.348
and it gives life meaning or whatever. It can give a person subjective
31:46.413 --> 31:50.057
meaning, right? And Christians can honor the
31:50.557 --> 31:54.119
compassion in it, of course. But if this life is all there is,
31:54.472 --> 31:58.133
both the liberator and the tyrant end in the same extinction.
31:59.032 --> 32:03.111
Justice for the victim is never finally achieved, and their competing ideas
32:03.159 --> 32:06.595
of freedom have no authority beyond human opinion or power.
32:07.302 --> 32:10.738
And history leaves them in the dust, and there's
32:10.834 --> 32:13.435
no objective meaning to it whatsoever.
32:14.607 --> 32:18.393
All is dust in the wind. None of it is more significant than
32:18.893 --> 32:22.211
a swarm of gnats hitting a windshield in the grand scheme of things, unfortunately.
32:23.590 --> 32:27.023
Ah, let's wrap this one up. Struggle against theocracy,
32:27.039 --> 32:30.376
which is the original form that dictatorship and violation of human rights
32:31.050 --> 32:34.675
actually takes. People have— okay, what a
32:34.900 --> 32:38.349
weird way for him to end it. Look, Christianity does not defend coercive
32:38.849 --> 32:41.567
religious rule or using the state to force faith. Right?
32:42.212 --> 32:46.017
Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world, in John 18:36.
32:46.808 --> 32:50.759
But Hitchens also assumes that human rights are real,
32:51.098 --> 32:54.700
universal, and binding. On what basis does
32:54.732 --> 32:58.568
he do that? I would love to know. Christianity grounds
32:58.600 --> 33:01.542
them in the image of God, right? Every person has inherent dignity,
33:02.297 --> 33:05.563
whether powerful or weak, useful or unwanted. But in
33:05.677 --> 33:08.913
Hitchens' world, there's really no reason outside a subjective
33:08.929 --> 33:12.293
personal preference. You know, I like vanilla ice
33:12.793 --> 33:16.051
cream, so is the same as him wanting to
33:16.551 --> 33:20.468
help Rwandans because it gives him pleasure. I like chocolate ice cream is
33:20.565 --> 33:24.227
the same as me saying I want to hurt Rwandans because that gives
33:24.275 --> 33:28.435
me pleasure. But ultimately it's flavors of ice cream, no moral
33:28.935 --> 33:32.178
component to it really at all, just personal preference and feelings.
33:32.933 --> 33:36.548
So Hitchens He might present Christianity
33:37.048 --> 33:40.952
as fear and hypocrisy and slavery, but that is not the
33:41.452 --> 33:44.395
reality of the gospel. The gospel says we are guilty,
33:44.737 --> 33:48.179
loved, and unable to save ourselves. God entered history in
33:48.679 --> 33:52.431
Jesus Christ, bore the cost of mercy at the cross, and offers forgiveness and new
33:53.009 --> 33:56.126
life freely to those who trust him.
33:57.364 --> 34:01.124
And Hitchens' compassion for the oppressed, you know, great.
34:01.300 --> 34:04.428
I think it's admirable. It's better than the person who wants to hate and suffer.
34:05.419 --> 34:08.721
Uh, but it quietly depends on the very things Christianity
34:08.737 --> 34:12.218
explains, right? Real human dignity, real moral
34:12.267 --> 34:15.461
evil, and real justice. And he borrows from it.
34:17.434 --> 34:20.567
And we have a moral obligation to defend the weak from the Christian
34:21.067 --> 34:25.210
perspective. In a universe without God, he can say he personally enjoys helping people,
34:25.693 --> 34:29.798
but he can't make human rights objectively true for everyone
34:29.847 --> 34:33.512
so that it becomes an ought. And that includes
34:33.529 --> 34:34.745
the tyrant who disagrees.
34:37.301 --> 34:41.942
And so anyway, to wrap this up, since apparently I'm getting overwhelmed
34:42.442 --> 34:46.282
with messages here, I want to move
34:46.411 --> 34:51.178
on to a lengthy letter I received about
34:51.678 --> 34:54.806
the subject of Calvinism, Molinism, and free will. Somebody was wanting to know what
34:55.306 --> 34:58.738
my belief system is on it. Am I a Calvinist? How do I feel about
34:59.238 --> 35:01.732
free will? Does it exist? And so on. So here's what I'm going to say.
35:04.585 --> 35:07.138
I want to first say that I respect Calvinists, because I used to be one,
35:07.655 --> 35:10.935
who are trying to defend the sovereignty of God, because God is sovereign
35:10.968 --> 35:13.388
and God knows all things. He is omnipotent,
35:13.855 --> 35:17.592
omniscient, omnipresent, right? Salvation is
35:17.640 --> 35:21.848
by grace through Christ alone, right? No man saves himself.
35:22.794 --> 35:25.508
God initiates. God draws, God convicts,
35:26.054 --> 35:29.875
God saves. So the disagreement I might have with the Calvinists is not
35:29.988 --> 35:34.066
whether God is sovereign. The question is, how does
35:34.098 --> 35:37.036
God's sovereignty relate to real human responsibility, right?
35:37.936 --> 35:40.938
Uh, let me switch screens so you don't have to look at Hitchens. He usually
35:41.438 --> 35:44.920
sweats way too much in his videos, um, which is kind
35:45.420 --> 35:47.875
of, kind of gross anyway. Um,
35:50.459 --> 35:53.925
human responsibility, right? The genuine offer of salvation and the
35:54.425 --> 35:57.038
problem of evil is all brought up in this, right?
35:58.338 --> 36:01.114
So we're not really disagreeing about the sovereignty of God.
36:01.933 --> 36:05.286
Um, we would ask, I guess, does God's sovereignty—
36:05.559 --> 36:08.961
or does God sovereignly govern a world in which creatures
36:09.330 --> 36:12.957
make meaningful choices, right? Or does sovereignty require
36:13.021 --> 36:16.519
that every human choice, including every evil one, be determined by God?
36:17.178 --> 36:21.451
So I believe Molinism gives a more biblical and coherent answer.
36:21.772 --> 36:26.158
It teaches that God knows not only everything that will happen, but everything
36:26.271 --> 36:29.644
that free creatures would do in any possible circumstance.
36:30.432 --> 36:33.869
And to make it easier, we just refer to it as
36:34.303 --> 36:37.725
middle knowledge. God knows what I will freely
36:37.757 --> 36:41.179
choose tomorrow, but he also knows what I would freely choose
36:41.436 --> 36:45.353
if I were placed in a different city, born in a different century,
36:45.385 --> 36:49.123
confronted with different evidence, given different opportunities, or faced
36:49.155 --> 36:52.667
with different temptations. So that means that God is never
36:53.167 --> 36:56.661
caught off guard. He is not reacting. He is not gambling
36:56.693 --> 37:00.815
with history. Before creating, God knows every possible
37:01.489 --> 37:04.825
world, every feasible world, every choice
37:05.049 --> 37:08.402
every free creature would make in every single circumstance.
37:09.268 --> 37:12.379
He then sovereignly chooses which world to actualize
37:12.801 --> 37:16.491
get it started, and providentially orders history towards his purposes.
37:18.636 --> 37:22.335
And we see this, right? We see this shape of this knowledge in scripture.
37:22.835 --> 37:25.371
A couple of examples. In 1 Samuel 23,
37:26.188 --> 37:29.261
David asked the Lord whether Saul will come down to Keilah, right?
37:30.887 --> 37:34.860
I guess that's how it's pronounced. And whether the people of Keilah will hand David
37:34.989 --> 37:38.342
over. And God says they will. But David leaves
37:38.553 --> 37:42.416
and neither event occurs. So God was not
37:42.465 --> 37:46.037
wrong. He knew what Saul and Caleb would do if David remained there.
37:46.768 --> 37:50.301
He would have been handed over. So then in Matthew 11,
37:51.140 --> 37:54.946
we have Jesus saying, and I spoke with Taco Talks about this
37:55.494 --> 37:56.381
on our interview,
37:59.162 --> 38:01.815
because this one's kind of a tough one for me, but I get it.
38:02.217 --> 38:05.739
So Jesus says that if the miracles done in Chorazin and Bethsaida
38:06.239 --> 38:09.354
had been done in Tyre, Sidon, and even Sodom, they would have repented.
38:10.221 --> 38:13.735
Those are events that never happened, right? And yet Christ
38:14.235 --> 38:17.009
knows what those people would have freely done under different circumstances,
38:17.779 --> 38:20.876
right? And so anyway,
38:20.909 --> 38:23.781
if you want to see what I brought up, you can watch the other— the
38:24.281 --> 38:28.226
interview, because I don't have time to go into it here. But it made me
38:28.274 --> 38:31.259
want to ask some questions and work that out in my own mind.
38:31.885 --> 38:35.223
So it is very close to the heart of Molinism, right? God knows
38:35.255 --> 38:39.237
not only the actual history of the world, but the true counterfactuals,
38:39.815 --> 38:43.366
which is what free creatures would do in circumstances that never come to pass,
38:43.671 --> 38:47.495
right? So people often say in response
38:47.995 --> 38:51.178
to that, but does that not limit God? Does free will make
38:51.564 --> 38:54.716
man sovereign? And I would say no, the opposite is true.
38:55.330 --> 38:58.546
Molinism gives God an extraordinary exhaustive sovereignty.
38:59.206 --> 39:02.905
He knows every possible circumstance and every possible free response.
39:03.397 --> 39:07.254
Then he sovereignly chooses to create this world and
39:07.754 --> 39:11.094
governs its history without ever being surprised, defeated,
39:11.608 --> 39:14.050
or forced into any sort of contingency plan.
39:15.159 --> 39:18.405
All right? He put a world of free choices into motion.
39:18.935 --> 39:23.097
Human freedom does not overpower God. God knows every choice
39:23.597 --> 39:27.532
before he creates the world in which that choice is made. And that matters
39:28.303 --> 39:31.563
a lot. When we talk about the subject of evil,
39:32.173 --> 39:36.074
because the Christian answer is not that evil is good. Obviously, it is
39:36.090 --> 39:40.409
not that rape, murder, cruelty, betrayal, or rebellion are somehow secretly
39:40.441 --> 39:44.134
righteous because God ordained them. Evil is really evil
39:44.634 --> 39:48.726
and God hates it. He says he does. He judges it. And in Christ,
39:48.790 --> 39:51.536
God entered the world suffering and bore its cost himself.
39:52.322 --> 39:55.903
But if love, obedience, faith, repentance, and loyalty
39:56.095 --> 40:00.866
are to be morally meaningful, then they cannot be merely programmed
40:01.540 --> 40:05.075
marionette-like robot behavior. A world in which creature can
40:05.155 --> 40:08.754
genuinely love God and one another is also a world in which
40:08.851 --> 40:12.385
creatures can genuinely freely rebel, hate,
40:12.401 --> 40:16.209
deceive, and harm within their nature. So that
40:16.709 --> 40:19.872
does not mean God is helpless before evil. It means he sovereignly
40:20.372 --> 40:23.455
permits real creaturely rebellion while knowing
40:23.567 --> 40:27.038
every consequence and weaving even the wickedness of men into
40:27.102 --> 40:30.284
his ultimate purpose without himself becoming the
40:30.300 --> 40:34.011
author of their sin. So the cross would be
40:34.511 --> 40:38.527
the greatest example, right? Jesus was delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge
40:39.027 --> 40:42.206
of God, right? Acts 2:23 says this.
40:43.010 --> 40:46.625
And yet the men who crucified him were still called wicked
40:47.125 --> 40:50.353
and morally responsible for doing so, even though God's will was carried out.
40:50.738 --> 40:54.861
So God sovereignly accomplished redemption through their freely
40:54.974 --> 40:59.402
intended evil. He did not make their evil into some righteous
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thing they carried out, and he did— nor did he excuse
41:04.218 --> 41:07.584
them for it. They're responsible for it. And that is the pattern.
41:07.648 --> 41:10.247
Same with Joseph and his brothers. They meant it for evil.
41:10.841 --> 41:14.210
God brought it out for good. So God reigns over evil without
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being morally blameworthy for it.
41:18.656 --> 41:22.542
Scripture repeatedly treats human choices as real and morally
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weighty, right? God says, I have set before you life and death,
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therefore choose life. Well, you can't do that unless you can
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freely do it. God forcing you to choose it is not a
41:34.234 --> 41:37.716
choice, right? Deuteronomy 30:19. Joshua says,
41:38.213 --> 41:41.071
choose you this day whom you will serve, right?
41:43.490 --> 41:46.862
It's meaningless if there's no free will. Jesus weeps over Jerusalem and
41:47.362 --> 41:50.878
says, how often would I have gathered thy children together and
41:50.894 --> 41:54.177
you would not? His will was resisted.
41:54.773 --> 41:57.849
The issue is not whether God knows the choice beforehand. Of course he does.
41:57.897 --> 42:00.458
The issue is whether the refusal is really theirs.
42:01.362 --> 42:05.314
Jesus says it is when he says, ye would
42:05.814 --> 42:09.332
not. So they are responsible for it. It is their
42:09.380 --> 42:13.143
freely engaged-in choice. He just knows that they'll
42:13.643 --> 42:17.077
choose it. And so this protects the sincerity of the gospel offer,
42:17.093 --> 42:20.577
right? John 3:16 says, whosoever believeth in him
42:20.626 --> 42:24.286
should not perish, right? Acts 17:30 says
42:24.640 --> 42:27.980
that God commands all men, all of them everywhere,
42:28.092 --> 42:32.588
to repent. And Romans 10 says, whosoever shall
42:33.088 --> 42:35.928
call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. He just knows who's going
42:36.024 --> 42:39.903
to. So the
42:40.064 --> 42:42.335
offer is made truly to everyone.
42:44.390 --> 42:48.161
God's grace is absolutely necessary from beginning to end. Man doesn't
42:48.661 --> 42:51.787
save himself. A sinner cannot boast that he has earned salvation in any way.
42:52.549 --> 42:56.623
The Father draws, the Spirit convicts, Christ atones,
42:56.737 --> 42:59.814
and grace opens the way. But receiving grace
43:00.314 --> 43:03.653
is not the same thing as meriting it, right? So a drowning man does
43:04.153 --> 43:07.644
not save himself by accepting the lifeline, right? The rescuer
43:07.676 --> 43:10.786
is the one saving him, but the man can still refuse to take hold of
43:11.286 --> 43:14.794
it and drown, right? And I know often when this
43:15.294 --> 43:18.818
comes up, people bring up Romans 9. I know Taco Talks brings it
43:19.318 --> 43:22.649
up, and rightfully so. As a Calvinist, I would do the same thing, and you
43:23.149 --> 43:27.570
shouldn't dismiss it. Romans 9 is inspired scripture, first of all, and it teaches God's
43:27.682 --> 43:31.218
absolute right to show mercy to judge, to elect, and to
43:31.235 --> 43:34.436
use nations and individuals in his redemptive plan, right?
43:35.216 --> 43:38.883
I say amen to that, right? But we should not isolate
43:39.173 --> 43:42.411
9 from 10 and 11, because Romans 10 gives the open
43:42.443 --> 43:45.617
invitation, right? Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall
43:46.117 --> 43:50.050
be saved. Romans 11 warns Gentile believers not to become proud
43:51.689 --> 43:55.568
and says that unbelieving Israel can be grafted in again if they do not
43:56.068 --> 43:59.118
continue in unbelief. And I believe that they will,
44:00.049 --> 44:03.244
at least a third of them. But that's just me. I think that's what
44:03.744 --> 44:07.868
scripture teaches. So Paul can affirm divine election, human responsibility,
44:07.997 --> 44:10.582
a real offer of salvation, judgment for unbelief,
44:11.111 --> 44:14.371
and hope for restoration all in the same argument without God being
44:14.467 --> 44:17.309
responsible for the evil deeds people engage in.
44:18.417 --> 44:21.869
Molinism does not deny election. It asks how
44:22.350 --> 44:25.739
God elects. God can sovereignly elect
44:25.868 --> 44:29.225
a world and a people according to his perfect knowledge
44:29.659 --> 44:33.128
without reducing every human decision to divine determination.
44:34.076 --> 44:37.160
And that is where the problem of evil
44:37.529 --> 44:41.224
matters the most. If every evil act is specifically determined in advance
44:41.724 --> 44:45.047
by God in the same way that good is determined by God,
44:45.464 --> 44:49.061
then it becomes very difficult to explain how God is not the author of sin.
44:49.894 --> 44:53.387
But if God creates and governs a world in which creatures genuinely act
44:53.419 --> 44:57.537
freely, then creatures are truly responsible for the evil they
44:57.585 --> 45:01.398
freely intend while God remains sovereign over the whole of history.
45:02.328 --> 45:06.542
So we may not know God's reason for permitting every particular
45:07.042 --> 45:10.932
tragedy. Sometimes we're given a glimpse of it, other times we're not.
45:11.445 --> 45:15.130
But scripture does not give us permission to speak lightly over
45:15.630 --> 45:18.064
suffering either. Or ignorantly,
45:18.642 --> 45:22.138
but we do know this: God is not indifferent to evil. He entered
45:22.638 --> 45:26.100
our grief in Christ. He is not defeated by evil. He will judge
45:26.600 --> 45:29.468
it, and he does not leave evil as the final word.
45:30.671 --> 45:33.013
He will make all things new.
45:34.072 --> 45:37.921
So I'm definitely not trying to take
45:38.421 --> 45:42.380
sovereignty away from God. I'm trying to preserve everything scripture says at
45:42.880 --> 45:46.084
once, which is that God reigns, God knows all things.
45:46.421 --> 45:50.380
Salvation is by grace alone. The gospel offer is
45:50.716 --> 45:54.467
genuine and real and to everyone. Man is
45:54.563 --> 45:58.426
responsible. Evil is truly evil, and God
45:58.926 --> 46:02.401
is not the author of it. That to me is why Molinism is worth taking
46:02.417 --> 46:06.841
seriously. And I hope
46:07.341 --> 46:10.928
that addresses everybody who emailed me this past— it's actually
46:11.428 --> 46:14.950
been about 2 or 3 weeks now because I've done some back-to-back interviews, um,
46:15.319 --> 46:18.908
which are always fun because then I don't lose my voice. The person being interviewed
46:18.940 --> 46:20.222
generally does, not me.
46:21.665 --> 46:25.046
Anyway, um, again, if you guys enjoy
46:25.094 --> 46:29.533
the show, please take the time to subscribe or write me an email or comment.
46:29.917 --> 46:32.994
I appreciate every one of them that comes in. I'm— it doesn't even have to
46:33.026 --> 46:36.808
be anything you think is important. Uh, I get people all the time that
46:36.872 --> 46:40.846
enjoy the photos of my skies over my house,
46:41.039 --> 46:44.117
or just comments I make, or some of the Tolkien stuff I put out.
46:44.165 --> 46:48.301
And lately I've been putting out concept art on
46:48.801 --> 46:51.667
my book. In fact, if you want to hear— and one of the things I
46:51.715 --> 46:55.579
put out on our Instagram and Facebook page, and I think
46:56.079 --> 46:58.929
I put it out on our YouTube platform, and it'll come out as a reel
46:59.429 --> 47:02.616
or a short because it's only like maybe 30 seconds long, but it's a part
47:03.116 --> 47:05.309
of the book where one of the characters has just buried a friend.
47:06.449 --> 47:10.080
And he's singing this dirge that is
47:10.580 --> 47:13.984
a part of a prophecy poem that is regarding the situation.
47:14.096 --> 47:17.679
So he's singing it deep underground in a cavern,
47:18.354 --> 47:22.370
and it sounds very melancholy and forlorn
47:22.870 --> 47:25.952
because, you know, he's been through a lot, and it's kind of a dirge
47:26.129 --> 47:29.824
for his friend and brother. And so if
47:30.324 --> 47:33.856
you get a chance, listen to it, and I'm really hoping that the book,
47:34.161 --> 47:36.313
if editorial process goes properly,
47:37.453 --> 47:41.402
will release by this fall and be available for
47:41.902 --> 47:45.240
you to purchase and read for Christmas, because it's going to be a great book
47:45.740 --> 47:49.254
and I hope you love it. In the meantime, I hope everybody has a great
47:49.754 --> 47:53.734
work week and Godspeed to every one of you. And till
47:53.766 --> 47:57.122
next time, I'll see you at the pilgrim's way next week.
47:57.539 --> 48:02.609
See you. Pull up close, you're hearing Pilgrim's
48:02.947 --> 48:05.474
Grey Chronicles.
48:13.160 --> 48:20.394
We come
48:20.894 --> 48:24.805
with open hands and Honest questions
48:24.902 --> 48:29.036
too. Somewhere between the doubt
48:30.468 --> 48:32.173
and what we know is true.
48:34.100 --> 48:36.835
If you've been burned by church doors,
48:37.591 --> 48:41.597
if you got scars to show, you're not
48:42.097 --> 48:46.065
outside the circle. You're exactly where we
48:46.565 --> 48:50.897
go. We won't flinch. We won't hide,
48:51.555 --> 48:53.837
we bring the light into the fight.
48:53.901 --> 48:56.681
Pilgrims,
48:56.906 --> 48:59.144
Great Chronicles, come and see.
49:03.010 --> 49:05.919
Pilgrims, Great Chronicles, ask,
49:05.935 --> 49:07.767
we'll lead.
49:08.989 --> 49:12.340
Big doubts, old walls, we speak truth
49:12.471 --> 49:14.056
clear. Pilgrims,
49:14.285 --> 49:20.082
Great Faith is here.
49:20.162 --> 49:23.939
When the skeptic leans in hard, we answer
49:24.020 --> 49:27.609
one by one with scripture
49:28.109 --> 49:31.522
and with reason till the shadows come
49:31.732 --> 49:36.856
undone. For every sharp objection,
49:37.452 --> 49:41.596
for every shaken breath, We listen
49:42.096 --> 49:45.607
first, then speak life, and we leave the rest
49:45.639 --> 49:49.014
to him. We won't flinch,
49:49.046 --> 49:53.406
we won't hide, we bring the light
49:53.454 --> 49:58.423
into the fight. Pilgrim's Great
49:58.923 --> 50:02.276
Chronicles, come and
50:02.388 --> 50:05.338
see. Pilgrim's Great Chronicles.
50:05.817 --> 50:06.716
Ask with me.
50:09.597 --> 50:12.440
Big doubts, old walls, we speak truth clear.
50:13.025 --> 50:18.050
Pilgrims, great chronicles,
50:18.083 --> 50:19.490
faith is here.
50:24.300 --> 50:26.776
Not every road is straight,
50:26.938 --> 50:29.448
not every wound is small.
50:31.330 --> 50:35.094
Grace can meet the question and hold
50:35.594 --> 50:39.310
the weight of all. So if your
50:39.810 --> 50:42.993
search is day, if you're weary,
50:43.752 --> 50:47.772
lead. The King who made the morning
50:47.805 --> 50:50.399
still answers everything.
50:53.970 --> 50:57.304
Pilgrims, great chronicles come Let them see.
51:01.200 --> 51:04.342
Pilgrims, great chronicles. Ask with me.
51:07.480 --> 51:10.512
Big doubts, bold walls. We speak truth clear.
51:10.998 --> 51:13.966
Pilgrims, great chronicles.
51:14.160 --> 51:15.360
Faith is here.
51:18.560 --> 51:21.228
Pilgrims, great chronicles. Let it ring.
51:24.840 --> 51:28.387
Pilgrims, great chronicles,
51:28.581 --> 51:32.629
listen, pray. Hey, your hardest
51:32.693 --> 51:35.709
question, your trembling heart.
51:36.402 --> 51:40.677
Pilgrims, great chronicles, right from the start.