Dark Rooms, Black Bodies

Mustapha Hassan: Guys, hi babe. You okay? I'm good. Welcome back to Pigmented Taboo. So today we have a very special guest. We're very excited for this guest. And I actually have the first question for him. So we're gonna call him Am I telling am I saying that before? The plug, yeah. We're gonna call him the plug for ⁓ privacy and to maintain his yeah. A nominated. Discussion. You know? Discretion. Yeah, for this question. But yeah, so hey plug, you are about to sit here with your face covered. Yes. with a ballet. And your voice is going to be altered. So why do you feel as one of the most successful black queer businessmen in London that you still need to do this? F sorry to cut in. This is the owner of DR Plug. I am exactly applause. AKA Danny with the D. So Danny with the D, owner of DR Plug. Exactly. So yeah, like you're one of the biggest events, like sex positive events in London, not only in London, actually in the UK, 'cause you are we were talking about you have branches in Birmingham and Minds. So why in twenty twenty six do you feel the need to still maintain an anonymous ⁓ persona? Because outside of the community I'm down low. So despite you having such a big well, does b download still count when so this goes into our next question actually. Okay, come on, gatekeeper. So you've chosen to remain on the download while building one of London's biggest like ⁓ queer brands, right? Has living a double life become exhausting or do you think it's just the price you have to pay? ⁓ it's definitely not exhausting. it's not the price I have to pay. I c I mean I could be open about who I am in ⁓ all different circles. But I like having multiple facets to my life. And I don't feel like each element of my life has to kind of cross paths. I agree with that. Absolutely. I can kind of relate to that in certain aspects. Yeah. The people from my Bible studies group don't doesn't have to know like what goes on in my personal life. Absolutely agreed. Do you still go to Bible study? Only on Sundays. So you're coming straight from Bible studies? I'm on the pair. I want to go to Bible studies because I feel like the questions are making it feel kind of rigid. Should we just fuck the questions? No, no, no. Sorry, we never do questions. No, but I'm gonna check I'm I'm gonna keep in mind. For those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because it's not flowing the way we usually flow. We're just we're just we're just a little bit scared. This is the first time we've interviewed and you're not a bad man. Yeah. Literally Flow, flow, mama, flow. I I I mean, what what made you what made you start DR Plug? Did you see like a gap in the Yeah, it was kinda it was a gap in the market. It was multiple things. There was a gap in the market for sure. I remember going to a sex positive event and generally in LGBTQ spaces, as a black guy, you're the minority, right? So I remember going to a sex positive event and sometimes I'd go and I'd be in high demand and then other times I'd go, I wouldn't be in such high demand. the attitudes generally towards me were it w they weren't they weren't the most welcoming at all times, right? So that's one aspect of it. I've been an entrepreneur for the past two decades, yeah. So I married that up being an entrepreneur with the fact that I said, well, I can probably do this myself. Like going to those events, seeing I was running, I could probably do this myself. And if I did it myself, then we would we'd be in charge. And everything would be on our terms. So let's give this a go. So we gave it a go, we flipped the script and When when you say when you say you weren't in demand, do you mean like people were moving to you? You weren't getting a pro? When you go to those events there's a there's an obvious hierarchy in any sex positive space, right? for lack of better term, it's a market. So you got buyers and you got sellers, you know? And you can see what people are what where the demand is. You can see what people are like moving towards, you can see who's getting moved to and you can see why they're getting moved to, you know. Or you can at least make assumptions as to why they're getting moved to. So you weren't in demand, it's like people are not coming here to buy what you're selling. Do you feel like when you were in demand people were looking for a particular thing? that the thing we're known for is our penises. Yeah. So like was it when you were in demand was it like, ⁓ yeah shit, BBC? ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. But I mean that wasn't problematic to me. You know that that wasn't problematic to me because this a is it was a sex positive event and I'm going there to have sex as a top so fair enough. You know, I I I'd I'll I'd be a bit in trouble if everybody wanted to ⁓ top me. You know what I As a as a top I'd be in trouble. So also like Dioplug has done a great job at marketing itself as black only, even though it's not black only. I've personally had men, had people ⁓ message me asking me, ⁓ have you heard of this event? ⁓ am I allowed to go? And it was mainly from other ethnicities. Many times where they've said, ⁓ am I welcome there? And I always have to explain to them, Well, it's not actually black only, like it's actually Everyone everyone is welcome. So how have you managed to kinda have s this strong ⁓ image of it being black only to the point where people are scared to not c to come if they're not black? In marketing, what's understood doesn't need to be said. Right? So we make it explicit who our target audience is. However, at the same time we always want to be an i inclusive event, right? So our target audience is mainly black guys. Right? Black guys who maybe have an alternative culture to the mainstream LGBTQ culture. So maybe more masculine black guys. That's the target audience. But that doesn't mean that ⁓ other people are not welcome to come. So what we tend to do in majority of our marketing assets we tend to kind of ⁓ represent who our target audience is. And we keep the language we keep the language f kind of literal. Literal. We keep the language literal, we keep it simple and we keep it ⁓ the tone like relatable to that audience. You know, you know, but you know, you know, right? And so people who are not that target audience, they then second guess and question whether or not this is for them. Because what's understood doesn't need to be said. You can see who our target audience is. But at the same time, we're an inclusive event and everybody's welcome. Yeah. I can I think 'cause every time we've been there, if we've seen other races, like it hasn't just been Black Men, so it's always been Yeah, and that is literally the only event that is like that in London. Like mostly Batman and then Of course. Only that actually managed to have that. So while still being inclusive. While still being inclusive. Yeah, while still being inclusive. Because even like when you go to Bootlishes, even though Bullish is I I feel like it is marketed towards black people, it's also very ⁓ POC. Like there's a lot of different ethnicities of different yeah, so it's very yeah. But like Diaplug is the only one I know like is mostly black people and then you have a few other races. And then I say if when I say the only event, I mean the only sex positive event as well. Because obviously there are normal events that are like cater towards mainly black people but the only sex positive events that you can kinda compare to, you know, like roast, ⁓ you know, if it's it is JL Plug. What and w what what what helps with that is authenticity as well. So you can go to ⁓ other events, and it's maybe it's it's marketed towards PLC as you say, people of colour. But when you go there, maybe the people in charge of curating the event they don't really understand the nuances of ⁓ black people specifically so it's not as authentic. When you come to plug, if you're gonna hear I'm a piano and Afrobeats, it's authentic. Do you know? The Mike's man is a South African. You know, the DJ is a Jamaican. The person running the event is a is a black guy. So the authenticity can't lie, you know? What do you think has been like your biggest ⁓ pushback when starting the event? Because ⁓ of course it's a sex positive event, ⁓ but again also it being majority majority black have you had issues like how did you get like a permanent venue for example? 'Cause I think you're the only event that has like a permanent venue, apart from Buddy, of course, a permanent venue in London as a black ⁓ event. Like how did you manage to get that space? Was it was it difficult? Was it easy? Like what was process like? networking's really important, right? First and foremost. You have to understand the society that we live in. And in the society that we live in, unfortunately, we're the minority, right? So therefore you have to be able to network with the majority, right? So the person that owns our space is a white gay guy. Right? And they are kind enough, the team at the bunker, to welcome us and to help they they helped us to grow. So if you're not willing to kind of network, socialise and understand other people, then i it wouldn't be possible for us as ⁓ DL plug to have a permanent venue. Like if I was just like, okay, I wanna do a segregated event just for just for black people and I want it to be in a black owned space. Majority of the black owned venues in in the UK, unfortunately, they're run by people who who just wouldn't condone Homophobic. They're homophobic, yeah. Let's let's call the spirit of the spirit, they're homophobic. Yeah, yeah. So at the same time you have to be willing to work with people in your community and people who may be of a different culture to you, yeah. ⁓ b our biggest challenge has been Our own people. ⁓ we've had challenges with our own people. ⁓ we'll go into that. And an another challenge that we have is with ⁓ people that own the venues. So our own people, the biggest challenge that we have for our own people is that they they tend to be quite cheap. Sorry when you say our own people like black people? Yeah, but not necessarily just black people. because the as I said, the event is not just for black people. Like there's there's there's many different kind of ⁓ There's many different races in our ethnicity and our culture, you know, not just black people, right? So that's why I don't like to say just black people or white people, you know. Our own people, so in in in terms of the target audience. they they they tend to be they tend to be quite cheap, even though we are grateful for the the support that we've received over the years and some of our some of our following they're they're they're formidable. No matter what happens, they support Dio Plug and they and they they spread the the word about Dioplug, so you I can't fault them. But On the flip side of that, people don't like to spend money. And if you don't like to spend money, you can't sustain a business. Do you know what I mean? ⁓ so in terms of getting other venues, if if our if our following is not willing to pay higher prices, then it's it's not possible for us to get exp new venues and stuff like that. And then as I said, on the flip side of that, some venues they they don't want to work with us, it seems evident. And how they get around that, they just price us out. Yeah, I've heard ⁓ Think I had ⁓ a friend that said to me that he was a business partner with someone else. But do you think your race came into place in that? Because ⁓ they shared with me that basically they went in for a specific venue. I'm not gonna say the name, and they so a black person went in for a specific venue, they said that that day was not available. ⁓ because the venue the event that they presented to them was R and B. And then when the his business partner went, who happened to be white. He was like, ⁓ he gave him a great great quote and that was actually cheaper than what the quote would have been if ⁓ there was an availability for the black person. So is that like ⁓ Do I think what the race plays a part potentially? I think culture plays a part and ethnicity plays a part, right? So I feel like some venues, especially the venues that allow LGBTQ plus events, they don't want some cultures in their in their in their venue because they don't want their venue to get labeled. as a venue that holds these ⁓ particular type of event, right? So you go in there and you say, ⁓ listen, we're gonna play dance hall, we're gonna play we're gonna play Afrobeats and we're gonna play hip hop. Automatically it conjures up ideas of, I don't know, what for them. And then, you know, they come up with a smart way to kind of tell you no, because they're not gonna tell you no if the bat is because of your your your ethnicity or whatever case may be. ⁓ but you know if you go in there and you say, Alright, listen, I wanna play pop music. As a a as as a black guy, let's say that if I go in there say I wanna play pop music and I wanna play disco, I'm gonna hold an event. They say, ⁓ it conjures up majority of the crowd's gonna be, you know, of s a particular demographic. And that doesn't necessarily mean white. I'm not saying a particular demographic is white, it just says like okay, this ethnicity of people, this type of person's gonna be ⁓ coming to the event, so okay, yes, yes to that, you know. It it's interesting you mentioned the price thing because ⁓ the last time we went for Rose, we didn't pay like forty pounds for our tickets. So it's like do you think I know you say when you said like our people, you're talking you're talking about like all cultures, all ethnicities, like gay people in general. But like why do you think people are willing to pay forty pounds for roast but they're not willing to pay forty pounds for deal plug? That's that's that's interesting. ⁓ 'cause it's like the same kind of People people people pay ⁓ fifty pounds for Deal Plug exclusive. So, you know, ⁓ people do pay fifty fifty plus pounds for that. But that's not the majority of people who attend ⁓ Deal Plug. I think that Dio Plug is kind of seen as an afters. Do you know what I by afters? It's it's it's kind of not for a lot of people not seen as the the main event. It's not s is it's not seen as a mainstream thing for a lot of people. and also Deal Plug is Like a dirty little secret. Yes. So it's like Is that how you like it though? Do you want it to be like people's kind of like, you know Yeah, quiet on the creek kind of thing? Percent. You know, it's it's it's it's it's within it's within the name, you know. You know, and that might be counterintuitive because we're on podcast talking about it. But it's within the name, you know. DL plug. We want to keep things on the down low. Yeah, and you are done to stay synonymous anyway, so nothing really goes against that. Exactly. You know, you can pay cash out the door by the way. So Mr. DR Plug, let's get to the juice. ⁓ let me fix my chair. Actually did you find out that you were interested in the same sex? When did I find you kind of when did you start expressing? Yeah, because that's that's there's probably two different parts to that question. When did I start to be become curious? Mm-hmm And when did I actually act on those kind of ⁓ you know, impulses, right? Like that curiosity. So I became curious more than likely around the age of eighteen, nineteen. I started to watch some gay one. That's the first time I could potentially like say note that, okay, mmm, this is turn this is turning me on. You know what I mean? I like this. This is hot. And then ⁓ the first time I acted on the any any impulse. in terms of meeting somebody, that would have been at the age of about twenty, twenty one. Wow. Probably like two, three years after the fact. Research. But I mean I mean At that time ⁓ at the time I was I was still just like dabbling. I w I I wasn't out you know, I was just getting head. And then you know, that way I could reconcile to start with the head. Because I'm not gay if I get head. It doesn't count. You know. Like if a guy sucks your dick, you're not gay. Yeah, don't kiss him, you're not gay. That always starts with a head, interesting. And then ⁓ yeah, that let's say shit escalated quickly. Pun intended? Indeed, A few encounters in and then head moves to do you wanna try this? Was it the same person? ⁓ no, no, no, no, no, no. Different different people, different people. Was this on grind out or in in in you know, you go football and the next thing? Let's ⁓ let's let's backtrack actually. So it started off with gay porn and then I think I started to explore on online chatrooms. Yes, this is before my time, but I know it was really big. Yeah, yeah, we started started to explore online chatrooms, you know what I mean? That's that's the first time the Danny with a D first like, you know, showed himself to Hello World. Wait, Danny with a D? Yeah, 'cause you can't spell Danny without D. Okay. So is this like a double and channel, like with the D? Well, I don't get it. Hundred and ten percent. With the D. Danny with a D. ⁓ with the Okay. Okay, Daddy. That's Himbo, Himbo, sorry. Okay. So, ⁓ we log on to an online ch ⁓ chatroom and then we type the name Danny Blue. There we go. And the character's born like how many years ago now? A few years ago. We're not gonna give away your age. A few a few years ago, good, a few years ago. and then speaking in those online chatrooms, so you've got like video cam, so you're doing like cammin, right? Live play. And then somebody says to me, ⁓ they're just gonna meet ⁓ They grind a link or something like that. And I said, What what's grinder? Like like you know, we're we're playing together like we're wanking together online and he says to me, like, We're just gonna meet my grinder link. And these are others that are like you, like down low? No, I th I I d we didn't care to kind of delve into all of that. We're just playing online. I don't know if the person was down low, they was outly gay, didn't interest me at the time, right? I'm gonna meet 'cause you we're speaking, you know, speaking online, what's hot and you know he Sometimes you log into those chatrooms and you t you end up speaking to like the same people. Mm-hmm. So I'm gonna meet my grinder link. I What's that? What's Grinder? And they quickly said it's an app and but they left me. They ghosted me after that. And then they came back the next day and I said thanks and I ghosted them after that 'cause I found Grinder and that was like ⁓ that was that Pandora's box for me. Wow. So you so you like did you did you meet anyone that was like super, super like not down low but someone that like rejected the whole of like being gay, super like straight and then the next thing they were in your house like you're dick. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I've met multiple people like that, you know? Yeah, I've met multiple people like that. But that within itself is not oxymor like it's not an oxymoron that someone can be super deal and and like sucking dick or like getting fucked, you know. So that that to me is like yeah, that's that's standard, that's the whole concept of being closeted ⁓ closeted homosexual. It kinda even ties in into like another question. It's like I know you see a lot of black men that come into the doors with DL Plug. Has there been anyone that you've seen and you were surprised they were there? Like has anything like like that? I wouldn't expect you to be here. Like a pastor. Like a pastor. He loves pastors. I do. They love me back. I told you. Well but Bible studies is very sad. That's a joke. That is a joke. Let's let's let's let's let's clear that up. That's a joke. Nah, there's n there's been nobody that's ⁓ surprised me. maybe because of my own journey and before DL Plug, you know, I was meeting up with a lot of DL people. So there's been nobody that's really surprised me at all. Any celebs? Yeah, we we've had we've had quite a few celebrities. ⁓ footballers. You can't touch Discretion discretion is my business, you know. We've had a f quite a few celebrities. ⁓ get it for like the exclusive events. No, yeah, you you get people coming to the regular one that that that are you know celebrities in their own right. ⁓ the exclusive events of course you get more people with like a a following online. But even the regular events you get people that we need to get a ticket to the exclusive one. Yeah, maybe we we can maybe we can work out a deal. You know, work our way up. There's we're open up positions of you know, you got fluffer positions. ⁓ when you what's that? You gotta make it hard. There we go. You've done you've done that before. I can do that. I can volunteer. ⁓ but I had a question. So do you believe that only masculine guys entire DL guys? Or do you believe feminine guys entire DL guys more? Like do they find more curiosity in like a femme guy or like more like you personally as a DL guy? What do you think? Like you're talking about generally, right? So I have seen the trend change ⁓ over the past decade. Like when I was first, you know, starting out in kind of like the DL lifestyle. there was a huge trend in mass for mask. Do you know what I mean? Most DL guys wanted other masculine acting men. but I would say in the past five years or so, even on Grindr, you know, I can't tell you the last time I've I've entertained Grinder, but even on Grindr, a lot of the DL and mass guys are Femme Boys they're into like fanboys. Twinks, just more feminine energy in general. So, it's changed. I can't tell you that more DL guys are into mass guys or femme guys. I'm saying the trend has definitely changed. I think now it will be skewed towards ⁓ more feminine, they're attracted to more feminine energy. Do you do you think they kinda use that to kind of like themselves even more? Like, okay, I'm DL, I'm fucking a a femme boy, so maybe I'm not actually that gay. Do you get what I mean? 'cause I guess A hundred percent for some people they they'll be able to reconcile it in their brain like that, you know? Like ⁓ or the or you can go as far as to say cross dressers, you know. You know. Like ⁓ it's it's still it's still somebody identifies as a male but they're a cross dresser. And because they're dressed as as a like a woman it's not it's not that gay. You know, because there's still feminine energy present in the interaction. Why do you think a lot of ⁓ black men that have sex with They don't label themselves as like bisexual or gay. Like they don't put a label. It's just like I'm just like you said, just getting heard. Why do you think that is? Like for you, for example, first realized ⁓ what you were into. Did you put a label on it? Or was it just like ⁓ definitely not, definitely not. because the moment you put a label on it is the moment that you have to yeah, you have to accept who you are, you know what I mean? And nobody wants to accept being a homo. No homo. Do you understand what I'm trying to say to you? That homo shit needs to stop. No homo. We're gonna speak to them, don't worry. I'll s I'll speak, I'll speak to them. ⁓ I'll go a direct line with the deal guys, so I'll speak to them for you. Yes, but that that's one thing that I really like about your event is it it seems it seems like a safe space for everyone. And I think that's really unique 'cause there's a lot of we were even talking about in the last episode and me, you know, someone had an issue with that, but ⁓ that your event does open up to everyone. DL opens up to also gay guys, femme guys. Like people come there like really dressed up and make it like an actual motive. And I think that's really unique in London where everyone just feels really safe in the space and everyone respects ⁓ everyone respects everyone's decision to come as they are. And otherwise the most successful sex positive business Cold, Cold Jo, Kojo, we we we we thank you. I would go as far as to say Deal plug is one of, if not the most successful black owned LGBTQ event in Europe. Yes, absolutely. No, it's true. It's true. you have to understand that we're the most consistent and most frequent black owned LGBTQ event. Right? Every Thursday of the beginning of the month, by the way. Cold Kojo knows the schedule. He's a regular Love culture. But yeah, like so we're we're the most consistent. Regardless if it's a holiday, regardless if there's a big event going on or whatever, you can always rely on Dioplug to be to be holding an event. And that's it's been the case for the past seven years, right? ⁓ sometimes multiple events in a month. And deal plug's always packed. Because like you said, it's the afters, isn't it? It's the afters. And I like that kind of end. So it's not just ⁓ yes, it's we're a sex positive event. But as I said, I'd go as far as to say we're the most successful LGBTQ black owned event in Europe. Because we're the most frequent, most consistent for the past seven years. It's the truth. But we're more than an event, you know, we're we're a cultural brand. One thing I never when I first ⁓ heard about Dio Plug, it was because when I I I was speaking to a friend ⁓ when I first went and it was like there's a bit of a it's not a stigma, but like with I feel like come when I moved to London I realized a lot of black London men, ⁓ gay men, they look at sex from a different lens. Like people get fucked, everyone is fucking, but they want to pretend like they don't everyone is an auntie. Everyone like you you go to clubs, you don't want like so how it is moving station. Exactly. But then you hear stuff and you experience stuff. You're like, okay, wait, wasn't you just You know what I mean? And I think people even sorry to cut you, people even used to use DL Plug as a kinda got you moment or like we're gonna catch you in DL plug, like kind of ridicule the event, but then you do go to DL Plug. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I would say DL Plug's had huge cultural impact in that sense, in terms of a lot of the discourse online, Dio Plug is the butt of the joke. Do you get what I'm trying to say? But it's cool. I mean we we we're we're do like I I don't I don't. Like I feel like we need to move past, especially as black gay men, we need to realise that we're able to be saturally free. You know, it's it's cool because th things start off as a joke in it and the truth is hidden and just do you know what I Go go there, but and and duck in, 'cause you saw them. The thing is, it's kinda like when when you are the most popular and the most known, people are gonna reference you in whatever term. So And we and we've and we've and we've grown to accept that, you know. Initially that could have been somewhat infuriating, but now we've grown to accept it and and we embrace it. You know, as long as we're still influencing some of the discourse online, ⁓ we're happy, we're happy, we're happy to be mentioned. Just make in ensure that you at us at Deal Plug London on all socials when you're referencing us or inferring any joke about us. You know? We're here for it though. We're here for it. I love that. Yeah. ⁓ a lot of the success of Deal Plug has stemmed from the fact that people can come in a mask. So people can live out their fantasies with with some anonymity, you know what I mean? They can they can their identity is kind of hidden, if you will. So yes, people have a double standard where they try to uphold a certain ⁓ image of themselves in in certain circles and then when they come to deal plug they do on a mask and then they can get their freak on. But that's what we're here for. It's so funny because yes the mask But like if you know someone, you know someone. Like I've seen people in mass, I'm like, girl, but like, what are you doing? I know who you are, but I get it. Like, it's it's not he he's not obviously there, not for there for me, he's there for people that don't know who he is. Absolutely. And yeah, and there's also this misconception that you because ⁓ I was just talking about your event to someone because again, I don't know how I became a spokesperson for your event. People I feel like we all are. We we appreciate always ask how the event is, and there's a misconception that they must be naked to come to the plug. And I was that, ⁓ you'll be surprised there's hardly anyone naked. I even said I I go as far as saying I'm probably the only one that's in a thong in there. Like there's like you can just chill at the bar. So and you know I'm gonna get I go against my business model now. Code I'm gonna not have discretion and to Kojo's business. Kojo's always skin out. And we love that. We we we love that for Kojo because Kojo encourages other people to be more positive. Yeah absolutely No, absolutely listen, my business is out there. But yeah, but you can literally be fully clothed in a puffer jacket and still get your free con. And you can fall in love as well. Yeah, I've seen it happen. You fall in love? No. I was like, girl win. Someone fell in love with me. ⁓ yeah, that happens all the time. Yeah, so I think I think I mean, like, listen, I feel like it's it's a space where You just feel so like liberating and I think it's really nice as well because Yeah, like we we find we didn't find a lot of But you even brought that up 'cause I met someone. ⁓ I met someone there. Even in her bonding time with your friends. Yeah, period. I met someone at Dioplug once and let me finish my story. Okay. I met so I met someone at Dioplug and then he made a comment and he was like, ⁓ ⁓ you're trying to fall in love in the club. And I like, where else am I supposed to meet you? Do you get what I mean? And I feel like DL Plug is really good because as you said, it's a space for black men to to come and be safe. But then it's also like where else do you meet people? 'Cause like if I see a fine guy on the street, it's hard for me to I've ex I've walked up to guys before, but like most times you don't know, especially with my type. Like you can't tell my type is straight or gay. Do you get what mean? So like it's harder for me. But like in DL Plug I know. But you are, do you get what I This is this is the important thing about Deal Plug, right? Let's first of let's get across that. Deal plug is you don't have to come to Deal Plug and and have adult fun. You can come to Deal Plug and a lot of people, a l a high proportion of people come to Deal Plug, just the vibe, as Wendy says. They come to come on the dance floor, shake their ass, or they come to the bar area to chill, or even voyeurism. They just come to just watch what other people are doing. And all of the above are ⁓ that's okay at Deal Plug, you know. Deal plug is has created a third space for our community. You know what I mean? Which is important. That's what that's what we that's what we need, you know. We need spaces where people can come and socialise and be the ⁓ unapologetic self, you know, uninhibited. And that's what Deal Plug has created. So that's important. Secondly, what we're trying to do is create some type of way to solve the problem what you just highlighted that people can identify each other on the street. You know, and that's gonna be through like deal plug branded merch. ⁓ cute. So you're gonna have like a logo We have a logo, so everybody knows the logo. So what are you guys gonna do? Like, is it gonna be T shirts? Gonna be intimate stuff? Is it gonna be balies? Bali makes sense the L plug. No, but what what what it is? It's ⁓ similar to what Mustafa was just saying, is that you're in the gym, right? And it's hard for us as black gay guys, especially if you're more masculine presenting, to work out who else is on the same shit that I'm on. You know what I mean? So we started off with ⁓ like wristbands. You know, like the wristbands you would get like what would Jesus do? But you don't you're not looking for that wristband, you're looking for the wristband with the deal plug logo on If you look and you see somebody with that deal plug logo on on the wristband, then you know that they're part of the community. ⁓ So in terms of in terms of merchandise and stuff, we'll start off with simple things like socks. Ain't nobody necessarily want a whole t shirt advertising deal plug on it. And see the insignia on the the the the the kind of the waistband of the boxes or the top of the or the top of the socks. See? It's like a subtle cue in public spaces that okay, yeah, this person's a part of my community. I I like the socks one because you could be like in the office and then you just like and you just look at them and be like, You see it? Like ⁓ what is it, friends of Dorothy, they used to have that little code language back in the day. A hundred percent we we're trying to we're trying to create a code, subtle calls. like, ⁓ socks ⁓ I'm in the gym. Waistband be kind of like a little if you know you know type of thing, like secret secret society and ⁓ It it maintains some type of discretion, you know. So, you know, because for some people that's important. So do you ⁓ do you think that because I view BDL as a face that you eventually the goal is to eventually live your life as your true self. But obviously all these you know things that you're doing to progress the brand are kinda like suggesting that This is a forever lifestyle. So do you think that it should be not that it should be, but how do you feel about it being a forever lifestyle? 'Cause that's very honestly. I think, yeah, that ⁓ and I think I think I think even that topic is pointed. I think we have to understand that everybody is not gonna have the same experience and everybody doesn't wanna have the same experience, right? So some people wanna be out and out openly proud to be gay, let's say. For example. And there's some people that have accepted that they're gay, but for whatever reason, ⁓ cultural, where w w whatever's going on with them, they want to be more discreet about their sexuality. Right? So they're not necessarily l lying to everybody at home. But they don't want everybody that meets them on the street, their first interaction with them is that okay, you're you're you're you're you're a gay person, you know? Because that That also kind of ⁓ dictates how people deal with you. Because as as ⁓ you you gotta understand as black men, we're already minority. And as a gay black guy, you're a double minority. Yes. And so people people start to deal with you a certain way if they say, ⁓ you're gay and you're black, okay, now I'm d I've already I've already got an idea in my head of how to deal with you, how to take you. So it's not so much a case of not ⁓ continuing the ⁓ DL or DL lifestyle. It's more of case of allowing some people to continue to be discreet about their sexuality while still being a part of the community. 'Cause I always wondered like how do you but then the same way probably they wonder how do we live so freely, like are you not and you guys and you guys should be able to live freely, you know what mean? And and people who are discreet about their sexuality should also be able to and us as a community should just support and understand even each other. Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. I think what really frustrates me the most about ⁓ the DL community is that I believe that if more people were to openly come out, there'll be less stigma. 'Cause I've I I'm from Nigeria and I know a lot of Nigerian celebrities who are DL. ⁓ and in my head I'm like if all of you came out, not all of you are gonna get packlash. Like it's it just shows like there's more of us in the world. So I feel like even with athletes, like we know like there's thousands of athletes. You're trying to tell me all the athletes are are straight, all the footballers during the World Cup, there's someone there who likes men. And I feel like if you stand up and you decide to be that voice, it would help. The cause. Rep representation is important. And you have a lot of openly gay people who are representing for the the minorities and the double minorities. But also what we have to do as a community is create kind of a pipeline for those people who have not quite yet accepted who they are or or are able to ⁓ be the unapologetic self, to ⁓ to have spaces or systems in place where they can still ⁓ Kind of ⁓ explore expl explore themselves and and be st still be a part of the community. Because I've seen a pipeline at The O Plug where people and the first time they enter they come in a balaclava, hooded up, ⁓ pay cash only. And then and then they start to come to a few events, eventually they're paying on card. You know, eventually they're not coming of a balaclava. Eventually they stop coming to plug. I don't see them for a couple of months and then I see them eight months later and they're like ⁓ I made I made so man so much friends that plug and you I've I've I've I've now been introduced to different events in the community and that's beautiful because it was like kind of their first contact with the community, the first place they could come and explore without feeling ⁓ feeling as though their their their discretion is gonna be compromised. So ⁓ yes, representation is important, but also safe spaces for people who are closeted because we as black men understand the cultural nuances about ⁓ around being ⁓ homosexual, do you know what I So, ⁓ we have to support our brothers that are still kind of potentially struggling with ⁓ their sexuality and accepting themselves. Why do you think, ⁓ I mean I know the answer, but I wanna hear well, I think I know the answer, but I wanna hear from you. Why do you think it's easier for other races, ⁓ especially white men, to live in their truth compared to us black men? Because there's not I don't think there's an event for causative white men. Like I've not heard of any freak parties for causing white men. We get we get a lot of closeted white men. ⁓ not all not all DL guys are are We get we get we get a lot of ⁓ so you have to you have to you have to understand ⁓ when you're speaking about ⁓ i it being easier for some white guys to come out as being gay, that's white guys that live in western cultures in the first world or come from ⁓ Western cultures. When you're talking about white guys that come from the second world, i. e. Eastern Europe, ⁓ they they they go through the same struggles and hardships as ⁓ people let's say from the Caribbean or ⁓ or or or Africa and stuff like that. He's still not out, it's extremely religious and it you can't come out. A lot of it stems from ⁓ in in the third world it stems from colonialism, ⁓ and a lot of it in the second world, i.e. Eastern Europe or what have you, stems from ⁓ religion it all comes down to religion and ideology, you know? ⁓ whether it's the whether it's the third world or the second world. So it's not just ⁓ white guys have has it have it easier coming out, you know, that you got deal white guys. You've got a lot of deal Russians, deal Eastern Europeans. ⁓ so it's easier if your family are ⁓ or or your loved ones, it doesn't necessarily have to be your family, are more Western minded because there's been a huge push in Western society to accept ⁓ different sexualities and stuff like that. And there hasn't been such a big push in other societies. Which is ironic because the West is the one that kind of told us not to. Yeah. And like now they're like Thank you. Well, thank you guys. We are literally so honored for having you here today. Like, honestly, thank you for taking the time out to come and join us for this very needed conversation 'cause I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions when it comes to DL culture and that DL men. Especially what you just said about not all DL men are black men. Yeah. And I think and I think it's nice as well that you say like you you open the space for people to eventually start to come to terms with their sexuality to the point where in the real world they'll eventually be like, you know what, maybe I can At this but at the same time we're still providing the guide roles for those people who do not necessarily wanna be wan wanna be openly up and outgoing. I think it's nice to have that space where people can sh start to actually grow into their skin, which is really nice. Okay. So as this episode's coming to an end, I just I'm gonna read this guy because I'm not gonna remember all of it, right? So as a walk is clearly now dead, black Pride has lost all his sponsors and not only Black Pride but other just LGBT events in general. ⁓ you know, ⁓ so there was no Black Pride this year. ⁓ but I still need I still think that we need to build for ourselves. therefore, as Pigmented Taboo, we have joined in forces with DL Plug and Juice London to create our own Black Circuit Party in London. And ⁓ if you made it this far in the video, you're we're gonna put it in the screen, but you're gonna get a ten pound ⁓ discount code that's gonna be ten pound off the ticket. and yeah, so pigmented juice is coming in September as a end of summer. The darker berry. Yes, the dark of the berry, the sweeter the juice. Get your dicks up, people. yeah, the dress code is sneaky link quiet on a creek. Leather kink, sporty sleek. So bring Well if you wanna come like whatever you wanna come in, but just make sure it's yeah. We're gonna have some flyers. We're gonna have some flyers too. So you have like a a vibe. We are going to have a zone for the freakums that wanna, you 100%. Definitely definitely won't be caught quite on that creek. Yeah. And for the people that wanna watch or just wanna in that space. But if you wanna just dance, listen, just bring yourself and dance. Please don't come into the into the space trying to watch. If you're gonna come into space, get like Either you dance in or you fucking Yeah or you fucking like don't stand on the wall. Many more phone you slide just you know get get to know like ⁓ like the plug said like he built this community where there's people that now made friends, la long life friends that now expanded like you know, to go to different events and stuff. So use like whenever there's these events, I feel like people should use them more. To socialise because then you go home and you're like, ⁓ I don't have no friends, but what you went to an event, you didn't speak to anyone. That's a very good point because you go to these events and people are like clicky. It's really clicky. Yeah. So people can't But I'm looking forward to it. I think I think the collaboration is gonna inspire people to mix with different groups. Hundred percent. And our fan base has bring different vibes. Juices has got like a mainstream vibe, the deal plug's obviously got the deal plug vibe and Pignet too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's got kind of like an alternative wherever. And to the to anyone that's coming, you don't do not feel like you need to be in a group to come to an event. You can come by yourself and make friends. I've done that so many times. Yeah, come on the one man's man, it's always always good. Yeah. Make friends or make a man. Literally, get yourself a man. So yeah, thank you guys for tuning in. And this is Big Mente Taboo where we speak your thoughts. Thank you.