Quantum woo: how to avoid mystical nonsense when doing physics outreach

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Physics world.
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Hello and welcome to the Physics World weekly
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podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston.
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In this episode, I'm joined by a physicist
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and author to talk about quantum mystic,
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how heavy metal music can be used to
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teach quantum mechanics and about the physics of
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the Canadian
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rock band
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rush.
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The relationship between science and mystic
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is probably as old as humanity itself.
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Indeed, it's really only in the modern era
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of science and technology
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that a clear distinction between the 2 has
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emerged.
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Today, some branches of science are seen as
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more mystic than others, and quantum physics leads
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the way. When it comes to mystical
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interpretations, both by scientists
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and non scientists alike.
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This has led to the concept of quantum
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wu, a
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term for ideas that link quantum physics.
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And mystic.
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To talk about Quantum Wu, I'm joined down
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the line from the University of Nottingham by
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the physicist and author
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Philip Mori.
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Hi, Phil. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, Hamish.
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Thanks so much for the invitation. Absolute delight
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to be here.
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We're gonna have chat about my favorite subject
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on 1 of my favorite subjects.
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And add AAA spoiler towards the end, 1
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of your famous pro rock bands. So stick
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around for that if you're interested
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in the in the connections between physics and
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Pro rock. But first,
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let's talk about Quantum Wu. So do you
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have a definition fill about Quantum Wu because
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there... This is something that you've thought about.
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I thought that you did a very, very
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good job in the introduction there, hamish in
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summing up all the issues with Quantum Root.
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I guess it's a mis mash of... Quantum
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physics. I was about to say concepts,
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but it's not really even concepts. As quantum
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physics mains. So things that are right there
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in the public consciousness about how quantum is
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meant to work. Take that at a liberal
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dose of mystic and spirituality as you said,
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give it a bit of a mix and
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throw in some wish thinking, and that's pretty
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much quantum rue I would say.
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Okay. And could could can you give a
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few examples of Quantum woo? I mean, I'm
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guessing that
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the
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Sc cat. An entanglement and all that sort
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of stuff comes in to play? It's interesting.
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I would say that shooting his cat obviously,
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was was put forward as as as meant
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to be ridiculous
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aspects of quantum physics and particularly when we
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extend them to the the the big bad
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world around us, Similarly entanglement is a real
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thing, are very, very much of of a
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definitive,
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part of quantum physics, some would say the
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very essence of quantum physics. I guess when
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I hear Quantum Mu, I think of people
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like
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f off cap, back in the seventies, the
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tower physics, I think a people like Deep
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deepak Chop,
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I think of people like, Rhonda Byrne, who's
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near might be so familiar, but there's something
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called the secret,
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and Oprah Winfrey had Rhonda, burn on, at
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least once, maybe a number of times and
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really pushed
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burns burke which burn she says there's a
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secret out there and the secret really is,
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spoiler coming
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is because quantum physics,
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we're all interconnected. Therefore, we can change the
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universe with our minds. And if you think
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good thoughts,
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good things will come to you. That's essentially
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the secret with a lot of quantum
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wu on top to to to give it
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that sort of v near of scientific credibility.
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I think of people like
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gwyneth
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from a much more topical
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example and in in particular, somebody she works
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with, called John Am,
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who, again claims that using different aspects of
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quantum energy feels whatever they may be that
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he can tap into and connect with people
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in a myriad of ways and
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improve their lives immensely. So that's what I
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think of. It's not almost the physics side.
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It's really the
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the popular polarization of quantum ideas in a
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very spiritual mystical
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environment. That's that's really what I think about
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when I had the term quantum route. So
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so is it really just sort of randomly
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inserting the word quantum
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into
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a mystical concept or or
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have some people actually taken genuine
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quantum concepts like entanglement, for example, and sort
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of stretch them
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into mystic.
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They have, and we might talk about this
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a little bit later on, but
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I think we physicists have an off full,
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you know, got a really tech a lot
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of the blame here because we have not
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been careful when we've been defining
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concepts like entanglement
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or describing concepts like entanglement, showing us cat,
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sort of the the question you just the
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universal where function as a where. All these
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types of ideas, when you look through popular
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science books, when you look through things like
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new scientists
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or scientific American, and you look at some
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of the things that we businesses have said,
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it about how consciousness couples to the the
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physical world, for example, when there isn't a
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scrap of evidence
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for any of those claims,
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I have
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I think we are being unfair, if we
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then point the finger of people like Chop
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and Rhonda Byrne, and an Alm and Gwyneth
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pal and say, well look at these
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silly people. How could they ever get these
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ideas. The reason they've got these ideas is
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that we physicists have not being been careful
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enough I'm not Named names. I couldn't named
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names later on, but.
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There are some very very good physicists who
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have said some...
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Very striking things on the basis of absolutely
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no evidence at all. And, and Phil, why
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do you think people are attracted to a
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a sort of a mash up.
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Of science and mystic do... Does it rely
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AAA genuine
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interest in science
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that that's somehow gone off the rails or
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or gone wrong. It's an
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really interesting question in terms of psychology of
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what's going on here? There's obviously sort of
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religious element to this.
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And I guess, science,
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science really isn't about certainty, but a lot
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of people think it is. In fact science
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really is about dealing with uncertainty.
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But the popular
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idea is well, you know, science about proof
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science about this is the way the world
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is. And there's something very comforting about that
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and a, you know, particularly right now at
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this point in the 20 first century
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with so many
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existential and personal crises going on. It's it's
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very confident to think, well, I can have
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certainty.
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And if quantum physics tells me this if
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quantum physics tells me I can control and
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connect with the universe
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that's really comforting. And you can see as
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a
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as a replacement almost for a more traditional
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religion, you can see perhaps as we...
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At least in some areas of the globe
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as we grow a little bit more secular.
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You can see how something with a bit
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more of a scientific bias can come in
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and and so you serve traditional religion.
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But it's... I think there's many Phd thesis
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to be written on this subject.
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So Phil, do you encounter Quantum Wu in
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your capacity as a physics professor? Does it
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come up in the lecture hall or during
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professional interact? Sessions with the wider public.
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It doesn't come up in an electro lecture
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hall mer,
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couple of students a number of students are
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obviously interested in things like the many worlds
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interpretation and the broad or philosophical
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ramifications or quantum physics. And so we certainly
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discuss those type of things, but I've not
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come across somebody who's a fully paired up
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member of the Quantum Club. Let's put it
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like that. That's in electric theatre
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I've done things like skeptics in the pub,
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range of different
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public talks.
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And, yes,
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certainly been queries and questions at the at
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the end. I I not be too dismissive
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really. Do scientists don't know I've with and
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how do you know that it might be
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like there's some causes an infinite number of
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things that it might be like.
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So yes, it it comes up, I guess
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where it really
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took up quite a bit of my time
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was
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when we did a video for the 60
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symbols,
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channel.
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That's a collaboration between ourselves here at nottingham
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them and a guy called Brady Har,
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who's runs a number of popular Youtube channels,
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number file, computer file and some this 60
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symbols channel
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and we did a video where we...
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For 1 of a better word critique, an
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episode of Gwyneth Pal Goo lab,
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on the subject of energy. And as part
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at wow.
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Yeah. That... And you can imagine how fun
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that was
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And
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as as part of that, will actually major
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your part, a major element of that particular
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episode was... An energy healer or a quantum
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energy healer. A guy called John Alm.
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And
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he what guy I referred to earlier on,
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who claims that he can connect with quantum
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energy fears and really influence
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people, not just on a spiritual level, but
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on a physical level he was waving his
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hands over them connecting with these fields and
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they were moving and some of them described
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it as like having an ex.
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And
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So again, there's another example of where we
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scientists could point her finger and go or
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look at this foolish guy. He really... You
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know, is just... Snag all sales money at
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charlotte and all the types of of,
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remarks that are usually fired off of these
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people.
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So he emailed me after that video was
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uploaded,
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and we did a critique of him and
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and gwyneth.
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Goo lab stuff. He emailed me, and it
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was a really,
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very
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polite and very con constructive email, and then
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few weeks later,
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we had another exchange of emails, and then
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during the lockdown and 1 of the locked
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ends, we had a Zoom call, an hour
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where we we talked to each other. And
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I don't think
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He's a snake oil salesman at all. I.
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You know, he's obviously making a lucrative living,
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something like 5000 pound per. 5000 dollars per
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session.
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He's with all the air,
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Harry,
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of Meghan and Harry Fame, mel mentions him
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in his in that brook that what was
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it called spares? Spare Oh really. I didn't
277
00:11:02,682 --> 00:11:05,793
yeah. Didn't know quantum in spare. Well, so
278
00:11:06,112 --> 00:11:07,946
Sean Ama mentioned. I don't quite know away.
279
00:11:08,185 --> 00:11:09,711
Are you I'd regret to say I haven't
280
00:11:09,711 --> 00:11:11,538
read spare, I don't have it on my
281
00:11:11,538 --> 00:11:13,922
list of brooks that I would be reading
282
00:11:13,922 --> 00:11:15,750
anytime soon. So if you wanna read through
283
00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:17,593
it, If you want to take it For
284
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the rest of us here, mister Reed foods
285
00:11:19,184 --> 00:11:20,378
and try and find the link to John
286
00:11:20,537 --> 00:11:22,947
Am. But anyway, he's interacted with
287
00:11:23,641 --> 00:11:25,869
a range of A less celebrities. Let's put
288
00:11:25,869 --> 00:11:26,799
it that way. Hit
289
00:11:27,714 --> 00:11:29,941
But the feeling I get from him, and
290
00:11:29,941 --> 00:11:32,565
it maybe I'm just incredibly naive even gullible,
291
00:11:32,724 --> 00:11:34,792
but if I am, he's an incredibly good
292
00:11:34,792 --> 00:11:37,060
actor. But the feeling I get from him
293
00:11:37,437 --> 00:11:38,416
is that
294
00:11:39,192 --> 00:11:42,403
he genuinely believes there's something here. He genuinely
295
00:11:42,541 --> 00:11:44,636
believes he's helping people. And
296
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:47,582
he refers me back to statements that have
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been made by
298
00:11:49,177 --> 00:11:51,491
apparently authoritative of physics figures.
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00:11:52,303 --> 00:11:54,452
Well, they said this, they said the universe
300
00:11:54,452 --> 00:11:56,521
is affected by our consciousness. And if you
301
00:11:56,521 --> 00:11:59,067
go back through many different references, you find
302
00:11:59,067 --> 00:12:00,579
lots of suggestions of that.
303
00:12:01,709 --> 00:12:03,703
So if they're saying in it, and they're
304
00:12:03,703 --> 00:12:04,819
obviously very good physicists,
305
00:12:05,218 --> 00:12:07,234
why can't I see it? And
306
00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:08,350
the
307
00:12:08,727 --> 00:12:10,562
I think if we are really going to
308
00:12:10,562 --> 00:12:11,414
try and
309
00:12:11,772 --> 00:12:12,750
put across
310
00:12:13,125 --> 00:12:15,511
what's wrong with quantum you were and what's
311
00:12:15,511 --> 00:12:16,386
wrong with the
312
00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:19,169
the sort of more mystical elements of it?
313
00:12:19,328 --> 00:12:21,412
And why does no empirical evidence at all,
314
00:12:21,889 --> 00:12:22,389
then
315
00:12:22,843 --> 00:12:25,707
I think adopting an approach whereby we ridicule
316
00:12:25,707 --> 00:12:27,952
people is never the thing to do. I
317
00:12:27,952 --> 00:12:29,388
think we want to do something a little
318
00:12:29,388 --> 00:12:30,686
bit more constructive
319
00:12:31,622 --> 00:12:33,536
and and try and talk to them. I
320
00:12:33,536 --> 00:12:36,206
know this in these days of social media
321
00:12:36,345 --> 00:12:36,845
warfare
322
00:12:37,861 --> 00:12:40,256
that talking to people rather than shouting out
323
00:12:40,256 --> 00:12:41,933
them is not the dumb thing, but I
324
00:12:41,933 --> 00:12:42,970
think we really need to do that.
325
00:12:44,343 --> 00:12:47,140
And, Phil, you're not the only person who's
326
00:12:47,140 --> 00:12:48,259
interested in
327
00:12:48,738 --> 00:12:52,095
Quantum Wu. The Australian physicist Chris Ferry.
328
00:12:52,747 --> 00:12:55,076
Has has come out with a new book
329
00:12:55,132 --> 00:12:58,393
and and you reviewed that book for Physics
330
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world.
331
00:12:59,268 --> 00:12:59,768
And
332
00:13:00,540 --> 00:13:03,202
before we start talking about this book. The
333
00:13:03,496 --> 00:13:05,325
here's a bit of a warning for the
334
00:13:05,325 --> 00:13:06,914
audience. There is a lot of
335
00:13:07,789 --> 00:13:10,491
sort of very ripe language if I can
336
00:13:10,491 --> 00:13:11,206
put it that way.
337
00:13:12,096 --> 00:13:14,640
In this book, some some 4 letter words,
338
00:13:15,434 --> 00:13:15,934
etcetera.
339
00:13:17,024 --> 00:13:19,273
We're we're we're we're not going to be
340
00:13:19,823 --> 00:13:20,323
gratuitous
341
00:13:20,699 --> 00:13:21,097
about them,
342
00:13:22,053 --> 00:13:24,444
about using them, I hope, But just a
343
00:13:24,444 --> 00:13:24,944
warning
344
00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,268
to listeners. If if you're not comfortable with
345
00:13:28,268 --> 00:13:30,193
4 letter word you might want to
346
00:13:31,227 --> 00:13:33,932
turn your radio down or or or even
347
00:13:33,932 --> 00:13:36,022
stop listening. But the book is called
348
00:13:36,334 --> 00:13:39,924
quantum bullshit, how to ruin your life with
349
00:13:39,924 --> 00:13:41,838
advice from quantum physics.
350
00:13:42,477 --> 00:13:42,977
So
351
00:13:43,688 --> 00:13:46,078
phil, what what's the points of of Fe
352
00:13:46,078 --> 00:13:48,706
buck? Is he is he making fun of
353
00:13:49,025 --> 00:13:49,981
of Quantum Wu?
354
00:13:50,554 --> 00:13:53,685
Or is he perhaps doing what what you've
355
00:13:54,222 --> 00:13:55,338
suggested we should do,
356
00:13:56,295 --> 00:13:59,325
engaging. And is is there an educational element?
357
00:13:59,898 --> 00:14:03,166
There's definitely an educational element. I would say
358
00:14:03,166 --> 00:14:04,303
he's being
359
00:14:05,079 --> 00:14:07,390
discouraging. I wouldn't say he's attempting to reach...
360
00:14:07,644 --> 00:14:09,976
Across the aisle and connect with the quantum
361
00:14:10,034 --> 00:14:10,990
woo contingent.
362
00:14:11,547 --> 00:14:12,446
It's a very
363
00:14:13,618 --> 00:14:14,549
swear book
364
00:14:15,628 --> 00:14:17,946
and so b b irish, I can instead
365
00:14:17,946 --> 00:14:19,864
of using the bad f word, I can
366
00:14:19,864 --> 00:14:21,941
use the the the other f word that
367
00:14:21,941 --> 00:14:22,980
we come in to use.
368
00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:24,584
Over there.
369
00:14:25,218 --> 00:14:27,674
So for example, chapter 1 is called I've
370
00:14:27,674 --> 00:14:29,417
got it here. Actually, you can hear me
371
00:14:29,417 --> 00:14:30,551
flicking through the pages
372
00:14:30,939 --> 00:14:33,337
Quan chapter 1 is called quantum fracking energy.
373
00:14:34,136 --> 00:14:36,453
Chapter 2 it is called fracking matter waves.
374
00:14:37,812 --> 00:14:40,539
3 is called we have north fracking clue
375
00:14:40,539 --> 00:14:43,582
what is going on, etcetera, etcetera. And
376
00:14:44,036 --> 00:14:44,513
the
377
00:14:45,070 --> 00:14:47,613
the swearing is indeed gratuitous, but it's no
378
00:14:47,613 --> 00:14:50,885
less funny for being extremely gratuitous. And it's
379
00:14:50,885 --> 00:14:51,361
it's great.
380
00:14:52,473 --> 00:14:53,982
I really enjoyed this book. I give it
381
00:14:53,982 --> 00:14:55,808
a pretty positive review. I think it's fair
382
00:14:55,808 --> 00:14:57,635
to see enthusiastic review and physics world,
383
00:14:58,683 --> 00:14:59,183
he
384
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,468
really shoots down. As a physicist, it's... Of
385
00:15:03,468 --> 00:15:05,222
course, we get this warm fuzzy feeling when
386
00:15:05,222 --> 00:15:06,897
we see all this this war and pseudo
387
00:15:06,897 --> 00:15:09,221
science being shut down. So he shoots down
388
00:15:09,221 --> 00:15:11,130
on all the different aspects. Should be fair
389
00:15:11,130 --> 00:15:13,278
to him no 1 to take in line
390
00:15:13,278 --> 00:15:13,994
with what I said,
391
00:15:14,964 --> 00:15:16,561
just a couple of minutes ago. Let me
392
00:15:16,561 --> 00:15:19,355
read a, just a paragraph from the the
393
00:15:19,355 --> 00:15:21,192
right at the start of the book where
394
00:15:21,192 --> 00:15:23,028
which is titled what the fact is this
395
00:15:23,028 --> 00:15:24,225
book. Course, you mark,
396
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:25,860
And then
397
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,559
towards the end of that intro, there's a
398
00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:30,399
really good paragraph here. Again,
399
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,539
making sure that we physicists
400
00:15:34,811 --> 00:15:36,401
accept or a share of the blame here.
401
00:15:37,435 --> 00:15:39,104
I'll I'll quote from Barry. So now we
402
00:15:39,104 --> 00:15:42,308
are stuck with this perception endorsed by experts
403
00:15:42,459 --> 00:15:44,129
The quantum physics is mysterious.
404
00:15:45,084 --> 00:15:46,754
Wait a minute? You know what else is
405
00:15:46,754 --> 00:15:50,831
mysterious, love, success, look, health, who will win
406
00:15:50,831 --> 00:15:52,746
the Super Bowl enter the char.
407
00:15:53,225 --> 00:15:56,257
It's an easy argument Love is mysterious and
408
00:15:56,257 --> 00:15:58,660
so quantum physics, Therefore they are the same.
409
00:15:59,136 --> 00:16:01,122
And there is a big element of that.
410
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:04,300
For example, we don't understand quan consciousness. We
411
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:06,701
don't understand quantum physics. Ips so fact facto
412
00:16:06,701 --> 00:16:08,454
there must be a link between consciousness and
413
00:16:08,454 --> 00:16:11,083
quantum physics. Sometimes that's the level of of
414
00:16:11,083 --> 00:16:13,177
thought process we have. And
415
00:16:13,809 --> 00:16:15,350
Again, and I'm
416
00:16:16,049 --> 00:16:18,289
I'm as guilty as anyone else. If you
417
00:16:18,289 --> 00:16:20,129
want to talk about quantum physics in a
418
00:16:20,129 --> 00:16:20,850
in a public,
419
00:16:22,049 --> 00:16:22,450
arena,
420
00:16:23,183 --> 00:16:25,814
you tend to go to go down the
421
00:16:25,814 --> 00:16:29,582
oh, wow. Quantum physics wow route. It's like
422
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,488
it's weird. It's wacky, and he said Tar.
423
00:16:31,647 --> 00:16:33,079
We don't know what's going on.
424
00:16:34,511 --> 00:16:36,261
The are things are entangled, Things with me
425
00:16:36,261 --> 00:16:37,852
in multiple places at once.
426
00:16:38,504 --> 00:16:41,215
Isn't that amazing. And that's how we've tended
427
00:16:41,215 --> 00:16:42,890
to sell it. And there's a value in
428
00:16:42,890 --> 00:16:45,123
doing that there's of value and ent people
429
00:16:45,123 --> 00:16:46,877
about it, what we have to put in
430
00:16:46,877 --> 00:16:47,595
the proposals.
431
00:16:48,089 --> 00:16:48,829
The 1
432
00:16:49,287 --> 00:16:50,506
aspect of quantum
433
00:16:51,844 --> 00:16:54,800
mechanics and quantum physics that really wan me
434
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,672
up, is when the many worlds
435
00:16:57,289 --> 00:16:59,843
interpretation is presented as soul as, well, this
436
00:16:59,843 --> 00:17:02,178
is the interpretation. This is how the universe
437
00:17:02,237 --> 00:17:04,878
works so are these infinite realities out there,
438
00:17:05,275 --> 00:17:07,500
and that's how it works because experts say.
439
00:17:07,738 --> 00:17:09,668
When, of course, the many words
440
00:17:10,042 --> 00:17:11,711
interpretation is 1 of, I don't know what
441
00:17:11,711 --> 00:17:14,213
this time what what are the 50 different
442
00:17:14,747 --> 00:17:17,370
interpretations of quantum mechanics, and we have no
443
00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:20,406
way. We have no empirical evidence for to
444
00:17:20,406 --> 00:17:22,953
select 1 above the other. There's absolutely no
445
00:17:22,953 --> 00:17:25,658
empirical evidence for those, you know, alternate realities.
446
00:17:26,375 --> 00:17:26,875
So
447
00:17:27,503 --> 00:17:30,207
and often when physicists are presenting that, I
448
00:17:30,207 --> 00:17:31,480
want some physicists.
449
00:17:32,036 --> 00:17:33,547
I won't mention Names again.
450
00:17:34,263 --> 00:17:36,507
They presented us well, This is, you know,
451
00:17:36,667 --> 00:17:38,662
this is not controversial. This is the way
452
00:17:38,662 --> 00:17:41,636
the the universe works, and that's really frustrating
453
00:17:41,774 --> 00:17:43,210
and really damaging, I would say.
454
00:17:44,658 --> 00:17:47,464
And you you you mentioned the the many
455
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:48,020
universe
456
00:17:48,395 --> 00:17:48,792
theory.
457
00:17:49,349 --> 00:17:51,654
Could could could could you explain that, Phil
458
00:17:51,654 --> 00:17:53,658
actually? Because I I don't think some of
459
00:17:53,658 --> 00:17:55,888
our listeners will be familiar with it. Sure.
460
00:17:56,287 --> 00:17:58,278
So we need to distinguish between 2 things.
461
00:17:58,437 --> 00:18:01,384
There's there's multiverse theory and there's many worlds
462
00:18:01,384 --> 00:18:02,994
theory. The are many worlds there. Stems from
463
00:18:02,994 --> 00:18:05,234
a guy called Everett and is a quantum
464
00:18:05,234 --> 00:18:08,294
mechanical, an interpretation of quantum mechanics. The multiverse
465
00:18:08,355 --> 00:18:10,355
however is the idea that, you know, what
466
00:18:10,355 --> 00:18:12,115
the moment of creation there were lots and
467
00:18:12,115 --> 00:18:14,287
lobby of universe universes is created and we're
468
00:18:14,287 --> 00:18:16,605
1 bubble universe side of many, many, many,
469
00:18:16,764 --> 00:18:17,324
many others.
470
00:18:18,203 --> 00:18:20,974
That's distinct, I would say from many worlds
471
00:18:21,492 --> 00:18:23,564
interpretation. And after that distinction is lost as
472
00:18:23,564 --> 00:18:26,192
well. But the many worlds interpretation is that,
473
00:18:27,069 --> 00:18:29,379
1 of the key aspects of quantum mechanics
474
00:18:29,379 --> 00:18:30,390
of course that its
475
00:18:30,907 --> 00:18:32,920
probability driven. And
476
00:18:33,535 --> 00:18:34,035
when
477
00:18:34,649 --> 00:18:35,286
you have,
478
00:18:36,003 --> 00:18:36,981
couple of different
479
00:18:37,356 --> 00:18:39,443
options or a number of different options or
480
00:18:39,443 --> 00:18:41,277
indeed even an infinite a number of different
481
00:18:41,277 --> 00:18:42,256
options or possibilities
482
00:18:43,112 --> 00:18:45,265
that when we make a measurement,
483
00:18:45,744 --> 00:18:47,339
we say that the unit... That... We say
484
00:18:47,339 --> 00:18:49,988
that the wave function, which describes that mixture
485
00:18:49,988 --> 00:18:50,648
of probabilities
486
00:18:51,426 --> 00:18:52,965
collapses to a distinct
487
00:18:53,345 --> 00:18:54,164
distinct probability.
488
00:18:55,662 --> 00:18:56,881
The many worlds
489
00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:59,820
interpretation tries to get round the measurement problem
490
00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:02,942
by saying, well, actually, although in this universe,
491
00:19:03,236 --> 00:19:06,309
we see the the this particular outcome, tries
492
00:19:06,587 --> 00:19:09,203
at that moment of measurement, all these different
493
00:19:09,203 --> 00:19:10,234
other universes,
494
00:19:11,185 --> 00:19:13,429
it also exist in parallel,
495
00:19:14,293 --> 00:19:16,546
where there are different outcomes so that probabilities
496
00:19:16,683 --> 00:19:19,073
are spread across a wide range of different.
497
00:19:19,471 --> 00:19:22,259
In fact, technically, an infinite number of different
498
00:19:22,259 --> 00:19:23,215
different universes.
499
00:19:23,947 --> 00:19:25,061
That's ultimately them,
500
00:19:26,335 --> 00:19:27,870
my rather poor
501
00:19:28,962 --> 00:19:31,404
explanation in the many worlds interpretation, but
502
00:19:32,082 --> 00:19:35,054
for as an experimental physicist what really frustrate
503
00:19:35,112 --> 00:19:37,366
and indeed furious to me is that
504
00:19:38,062 --> 00:19:41,607
there's no empirical evidence indeed, those other universes
505
00:19:42,064 --> 00:19:43,977
that to use the technical term, d here
506
00:19:43,977 --> 00:19:45,491
from our own so rapidly,
507
00:19:46,129 --> 00:19:48,542
that the possibility of even
508
00:19:48,934 --> 00:19:50,875
having any evidence at all
509
00:19:51,494 --> 00:19:53,674
for those other the universes is
510
00:19:53,974 --> 00:19:54,214
slim,
511
00:19:54,855 --> 00:19:57,095
exceedingly slim to put it mildly lease. So
512
00:19:57,095 --> 00:20:00,083
then we really are in the realms of
513
00:20:00,381 --> 00:20:03,012
religion. If we've got no empirical evidence for
514
00:20:03,012 --> 00:20:05,963
something yet. We're seeing that it exists, and
515
00:20:05,963 --> 00:20:06,920
it has to exist.
516
00:20:07,572 --> 00:20:09,323
Because that's what our theories say.
517
00:20:10,198 --> 00:20:11,733
You know, you're not... If you're doing
518
00:20:12,108 --> 00:20:15,291
theories without empirical evidence, you're not really doing
519
00:20:15,291 --> 00:20:16,406
science, you're doing in mathematics.
520
00:20:17,057 --> 00:20:19,207
And so, Phil, you know, you... You're not
521
00:20:19,207 --> 00:20:20,640
a big fan of of Quantum,
522
00:20:21,277 --> 00:20:21,595
but
523
00:20:22,391 --> 00:20:24,461
I think you would agree in saying that,
524
00:20:25,034 --> 00:20:27,375
it's a good idea to get the public
525
00:20:27,434 --> 00:20:27,934
interested
526
00:20:28,315 --> 00:20:30,474
in quantum physics, and and to give the
527
00:20:30,474 --> 00:20:32,315
public a a sort of a general...
528
00:20:33,125 --> 00:20:33,625
Understanding
529
00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:36,543
of of how the quantum world works because,
530
00:20:37,099 --> 00:20:38,871
I suppose it's it's so important
531
00:20:39,563 --> 00:20:41,176
in in modern technology,
532
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,582
and and you've written a book that brings
533
00:20:44,582 --> 00:20:47,543
together the worlds of heavy metal music
534
00:20:47,916 --> 00:20:50,799
and quantum mechanics I suppose, I, I, as
535
00:20:50,799 --> 00:20:52,000
a way of doing that?
536
00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:56,720
So so did you avoid Quantum Wu in
537
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:57,220
your
538
00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:00,003
in your book about? Heavy metal music and
539
00:21:00,003 --> 00:21:02,782
and quantum mechanics. And how do you continue
540
00:21:02,782 --> 00:21:05,481
to avoid it in your outreach activities?
541
00:21:06,607 --> 00:21:08,515
I didn't. Actually I tackled it pretty much
542
00:21:08,515 --> 00:21:10,740
head on, a chop and a few others
543
00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:12,090
are mentioned in that,
544
00:21:12,965 --> 00:21:13,203
book.
545
00:21:14,012 --> 00:21:16,551
That you very health plugged. Thanks for thanks
546
00:21:16,551 --> 00:21:18,297
for that. Missus just called when the uncertainty
547
00:21:18,297 --> 00:21:19,408
principle goes to 11,
548
00:21:20,043 --> 00:21:20,543
and
549
00:21:21,805 --> 00:21:23,237
I think that's what we have to do.
550
00:21:23,396 --> 00:21:25,146
We have to acknowledge that it's out there.
551
00:21:25,464 --> 00:21:27,930
We have to be wary of rid people
552
00:21:27,930 --> 00:21:30,409
as I said for if that's... What they
553
00:21:30,409 --> 00:21:31,758
believe, and they say well a lot of
554
00:21:31,758 --> 00:21:33,742
physicists have said this, who are you to
555
00:21:33,742 --> 00:21:35,568
suggest Otherwise. I think we've gotta take that
556
00:21:35,568 --> 00:21:36,838
on board We gotta take that on the
557
00:21:36,838 --> 00:21:39,076
chin, but we've gotta try and it's explain
558
00:21:39,076 --> 00:21:41,087
just where the holes are
559
00:21:42,018 --> 00:21:42,916
without be
560
00:21:43,290 --> 00:21:45,517
people, and sometimes that's difficult.
561
00:21:46,153 --> 00:21:48,243
Moreover, we've also got to accept
562
00:21:49,347 --> 00:21:50,381
that, you know,
563
00:21:51,096 --> 00:21:53,958
I'm a physicist. I'm an educator I work
564
00:21:53,958 --> 00:21:54,696
in a university,
565
00:21:55,229 --> 00:21:57,216
the mantra for the the the teacher as
566
00:21:57,216 --> 00:21:57,509
always
567
00:21:58,106 --> 00:22:00,733
education, education, education as long as we educate
568
00:22:00,733 --> 00:22:03,917
people, then we can make sure that, you
569
00:22:03,917 --> 00:22:06,960
know, the we can just bell ignorance and
570
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:07,917
ever would be great.
571
00:22:08,715 --> 00:22:10,310
It's not how it works. You know, some
572
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:13,761
of the most... Some really, really smart people
573
00:22:14,218 --> 00:22:14,458
are,
574
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:18,067
very much skeptical to put it mildly of
575
00:22:18,067 --> 00:22:20,544
the evidence for climate change, for example. How
576
00:22:20,544 --> 00:22:22,941
do you convince those people just telling will
577
00:22:22,941 --> 00:22:25,111
you need to be educated it's not gonna
578
00:22:25,111 --> 00:22:28,374
work. They are educated. So again, it's a
579
00:22:28,374 --> 00:22:31,319
question of trying to reach across the eyes
580
00:22:31,319 --> 00:22:33,173
a little bit more and think
581
00:22:33,707 --> 00:22:34,207
about
582
00:22:34,679 --> 00:22:36,920
If we can't connect at the scientific level,
583
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,319
what other level can we connect with on
584
00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:41,740
a musical level on sports level, whatever?
585
00:22:42,853 --> 00:22:44,851
And that's... And hence that's 1 of them
586
00:22:45,090 --> 00:22:46,869
Rationale behind Doug Burke
587
00:22:47,247 --> 00:22:47,567
is,
588
00:22:50,295 --> 00:22:52,922
some piece. So lots of people out there
589
00:22:52,922 --> 00:22:54,594
think that physics is not for them and
590
00:22:54,594 --> 00:22:56,288
maths isn't for them, and that's
591
00:22:57,954 --> 00:23:00,050
for for a range of different reasons, sometimes,
592
00:23:00,508 --> 00:23:01,167
and it's
593
00:23:01,545 --> 00:23:03,939
depressing to hear this so often it's because
594
00:23:03,939 --> 00:23:05,990
at school, they had a really curve month
595
00:23:06,188 --> 00:23:07,857
teacher, are really poor physics teacher and they
596
00:23:07,857 --> 00:23:08,357
just,
597
00:23:08,810 --> 00:23:09,128
you know,
598
00:23:10,081 --> 00:23:11,829
just didn't connect with it. I've got to
599
00:23:11,829 --> 00:23:13,657
point out. That however, there are many, many
600
00:23:13,657 --> 00:23:15,583
great physics and mass teachers are they're some
601
00:23:15,583 --> 00:23:17,599
of my best friends or physics and dance
602
00:23:17,817 --> 00:23:18,317
teachers
603
00:23:18,775 --> 00:23:21,409
and it's it's a tough tough job. But
604
00:23:22,846 --> 00:23:23,346
then,
605
00:23:24,139 --> 00:23:26,376
the the interesting thing is that it will,
606
00:23:26,536 --> 00:23:27,655
how do you connect with those people? How
607
00:23:27,655 --> 00:23:29,273
do you bring them in and make them
608
00:23:29,972 --> 00:23:31,810
get them to see that the science really
609
00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:34,054
is... Saying. Well, connect was something that we're
610
00:23:34,054 --> 00:23:36,998
into. And in my case, I terms of
611
00:23:36,998 --> 00:23:38,828
reaching across the aisle in terms of not
612
00:23:38,828 --> 00:23:40,738
preaching into the converted and reaching a wider
613
00:23:40,738 --> 00:23:42,747
audience by For me, I'm a big music
614
00:23:42,747 --> 00:23:44,663
fan. That's the way to do it. We
615
00:23:44,663 --> 00:23:47,297
look for links between music and and Quantum
616
00:23:47,297 --> 00:23:50,170
physics, and we sell the package that way.
617
00:23:50,824 --> 00:23:51,143
And
618
00:23:51,861 --> 00:23:53,617
yeah. That that I think that's worked out
619
00:23:53,617 --> 00:23:55,692
reasonably well with that Brook. I've I've had
620
00:23:55,692 --> 00:23:56,591
quite a few
621
00:23:57,846 --> 00:23:58,086
emails.
622
00:23:58,899 --> 00:24:01,294
From people who've read it and got in
623
00:24:01,294 --> 00:24:02,891
touch and said, well I just... I never
624
00:24:02,891 --> 00:24:05,126
thought quantum physics would be for me, but
625
00:24:05,285 --> 00:24:07,941
I've really enjoyed seeing those links with music
626
00:24:08,413 --> 00:24:10,640
and, it's made sense of some of the
627
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,310
aspects of quantum visits that I thought I'd
628
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:12,708
never,
629
00:24:13,503 --> 00:24:15,427
never get to grips with. Soap Yeah.
630
00:24:16,143 --> 00:24:17,892
So so what do you look at in
631
00:24:17,892 --> 00:24:19,403
in in the book phil? I mean,
632
00:24:20,436 --> 00:24:22,503
is is sort of a at a basic
633
00:24:22,503 --> 00:24:25,224
level? You, you know, for example, music? Sound
634
00:24:25,224 --> 00:24:25,942
is a wave,
635
00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:27,299
and
636
00:24:28,337 --> 00:24:32,009
people perhaps understand how sound waves work, and
637
00:24:32,009 --> 00:24:33,765
then you can use that to
638
00:24:34,259 --> 00:24:37,036
to teach people something about quantum physics? Is
639
00:24:37,036 --> 00:24:38,544
that? I mean, is that something that you
640
00:24:38,544 --> 00:24:41,401
look at? That's exactly it for the slightly
641
00:24:41,401 --> 00:24:44,037
more technically mind the. To remember their physics
642
00:24:44,037 --> 00:24:46,501
degrees if they've done a physics degree, it's
643
00:24:46,501 --> 00:24:47,001
largely
644
00:24:47,773 --> 00:24:50,396
lots and lots of free analysis in disguise.
645
00:24:50,635 --> 00:24:52,950
To So it's... Yeah. As you said,
646
00:24:53,743 --> 00:24:56,441
sound music is all about waves, and I
647
00:24:56,441 --> 00:24:59,640
waves interact, and different frequency ranges and how
648
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,353
we modify those different frequencies. Quantum mechanics are
649
00:25:02,353 --> 00:25:05,305
core is a theory of waves, wave mechanics,
650
00:25:05,957 --> 00:25:06,457
And,
651
00:25:07,072 --> 00:25:08,528
particularly for my
652
00:25:09,063 --> 00:25:10,656
research in terms of the edge of my
653
00:25:10,656 --> 00:25:11,873
research involves using
654
00:25:12,408 --> 00:25:14,815
an instrument called a scanning probe microscope. That
655
00:25:14,815 --> 00:25:15,694
allows us to probe,
656
00:25:16,894 --> 00:25:19,154
right down to the single atom, and actually
657
00:25:19,454 --> 00:25:21,295
right down to the single molecule on sub
658
00:25:21,295 --> 00:25:22,355
molecular level
659
00:25:22,748 --> 00:25:26,006
and we see, for example, electron waves at
660
00:25:26,006 --> 00:25:26,506
surfaces
661
00:25:27,198 --> 00:25:29,844
scattered off steps and defects at the surfaces
662
00:25:29,979 --> 00:25:31,171
on a day to day basis.
663
00:25:31,663 --> 00:25:33,334
When you see those waves sort of on
664
00:25:33,334 --> 00:25:36,117
a screen in front of you, it's very
665
00:25:36,117 --> 00:25:38,685
hard not to be drawn towards the wave
666
00:25:38,822 --> 00:25:39,935
sort of wave mechanics.
667
00:25:40,585 --> 00:25:42,013
Side of the fence when it comes to
668
00:25:42,013 --> 00:25:44,630
quantum mechanics. So there's 2 broad churches of
669
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:45,130
thinking
670
00:25:45,503 --> 00:25:47,407
in terms of quantum mechanics. There's wave mechanics
671
00:25:47,407 --> 00:25:49,246
and something called mitt mechanics. And all the
672
00:25:49,246 --> 00:25:51,705
quantum information of quantum computing people love the
673
00:25:51,705 --> 00:25:53,768
matrix mechanics side of things. And, you know,
674
00:25:53,926 --> 00:25:54,799
the the equivalent,
675
00:25:55,927 --> 00:25:58,397
they're all... In terms of their interpretation, they're
676
00:25:58,397 --> 00:26:00,570
pretty much equivalent, but it's just
677
00:26:00,947 --> 00:26:02,939
different ways of looking at exactly the same
678
00:26:02,939 --> 00:26:05,192
physics. For me, it's always the wave
679
00:26:05,502 --> 00:26:08,228
side of the the quantum physics coin
680
00:26:08,999 --> 00:26:10,850
that draws me in. And,
681
00:26:11,303 --> 00:26:13,387
yeah, that's what the brooks all about is
682
00:26:13,387 --> 00:26:16,256
about drawing those links between wave mechanics and
683
00:26:16,256 --> 00:26:18,009
and the physics of sound waves.
684
00:26:18,807 --> 00:26:21,452
Phil, you mentioned quantum computing. It's I mean,
685
00:26:21,691 --> 00:26:23,705
I think it's safe to say that that
686
00:26:23,923 --> 00:26:27,987
that quantum mechanics is enjoying a a Renaissance
687
00:26:27,987 --> 00:26:28,625
at the moment.
688
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:30,420
I suppose it's
689
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,940
technologically driven in the sense that that physicists
690
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,599
have created some amazing.
691
00:26:36,334 --> 00:26:39,951
Devices, quantum devices that they can really put
692
00:26:40,090 --> 00:26:42,807
quantum theory to the test in ways that
693
00:26:42,807 --> 00:26:45,615
that hasn't been possible before, and people are
694
00:26:45,615 --> 00:26:48,421
developing quantum computers, quantum sensors
695
00:26:48,795 --> 00:26:50,544
and other quantum technologies.
696
00:26:51,021 --> 00:26:53,168
Do do you think that that is that
697
00:26:53,168 --> 00:26:56,714
sort of driving when an interest in quantum,
698
00:26:57,414 --> 00:26:59,654
or is it possible that it it's having
699
00:26:59,654 --> 00:27:02,294
the opposite effect that that quantum is sort
700
00:27:02,294 --> 00:27:03,595
of becoming a mainstream
701
00:27:04,548 --> 00:27:05,048
technology
702
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:08,619
and maybe some of the mystery and mystic
703
00:27:09,309 --> 00:27:11,238
is is is sort of eva
704
00:27:11,928 --> 00:27:13,934
now that we can you know, sort of
705
00:27:13,934 --> 00:27:16,734
build a a cube bet and and play
706
00:27:16,734 --> 00:27:17,375
around with it.
707
00:27:18,734 --> 00:27:20,095
That's a great question.
708
00:27:21,069 --> 00:27:22,987
Hamish. I'm just mu that over.
709
00:27:24,265 --> 00:27:26,902
I don't think it's the... I don't think
710
00:27:26,902 --> 00:27:29,815
it's yet the case that we're at. That
711
00:27:29,954 --> 00:27:32,674
particular point in time. III hope that day
712
00:27:32,674 --> 00:27:33,494
is coming
713
00:27:33,954 --> 00:27:34,454
when
714
00:27:34,755 --> 00:27:36,194
we get to a point where sort of
715
00:27:36,194 --> 00:27:36,694
quantum
716
00:27:37,154 --> 00:27:37,654
compute
717
00:27:38,285 --> 00:27:38,785
quantum
718
00:27:39,239 --> 00:27:41,010
information is so
719
00:27:42,099 --> 00:27:45,039
prevalent that that really all the sort of
720
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:47,683
mystical sheen is watching stuff the quantum physics.
721
00:27:48,322 --> 00:27:50,000
I don't think we're there yet. And actually
722
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,438
a very good example of why we're not
723
00:27:51,438 --> 00:27:54,395
there yet is there's somebody called Mit ka,
724
00:27:54,809 --> 00:27:56,484
who you might be familiar with. His most
725
00:27:56,484 --> 00:27:58,318
recent book is called quantum supremacy.
726
00:27:58,877 --> 00:27:59,754
There is
727
00:28:00,153 --> 00:28:02,067
wonderful guy who's been at the heart of
728
00:28:02,067 --> 00:28:04,540
a lot of quantum information developments and is
729
00:28:04,540 --> 00:28:06,808
on really great public
730
00:28:07,185 --> 00:28:08,221
communicator, a really great,
731
00:28:09,097 --> 00:28:11,510
communicator of the aspects of of of quantum
732
00:28:11,568 --> 00:28:14,208
information Quantum community, guy called Scott Ar. Go.
733
00:28:14,446 --> 00:28:17,228
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So Scott is is it's
734
00:28:17,228 --> 00:28:19,874
well worth visiting his blog. So I
735
00:28:20,248 --> 00:28:20,748
yesterday,
736
00:28:22,014 --> 00:28:24,411
I read the most recent blog post from
737
00:28:24,571 --> 00:28:28,028
Scott Ar, which is an absolute maul
738
00:28:28,567 --> 00:28:31,858
of Ka book book. And is the the
739
00:28:31,858 --> 00:28:34,435
title of the post is something like Tl
740
00:28:34,735 --> 00:28:35,853
do not buy this book.
741
00:28:36,972 --> 00:28:40,501
And cat ka does have form when it
742
00:28:40,501 --> 00:28:42,653
comes to quantum woe. And that's...
743
00:28:43,849 --> 00:28:45,364
I've I said I wasn't gonna name names,
744
00:28:45,523 --> 00:28:47,197
but he... I'm gonna make an exception for
745
00:28:47,197 --> 00:28:47,697
him
746
00:28:48,408 --> 00:28:50,664
that he does come out with the most
747
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:52,717
incredible nonsense.
748
00:28:53,275 --> 00:28:54,732
And I think
749
00:28:56,003 --> 00:28:58,076
it Sells Perks. It really does sell Perks.
750
00:28:58,236 --> 00:28:59,353
And if, you know,
751
00:29:01,107 --> 00:29:04,218
understanding quantum information. Understanding quantum computing is really
752
00:29:04,218 --> 00:29:06,301
takes a lot of effort. It's much easier
753
00:29:06,301 --> 00:29:08,443
to read something which goes, why why why
754
00:29:08,443 --> 00:29:10,663
isn't this amazing. Why why we can, you
755
00:29:10,663 --> 00:29:14,015
know, have multiple universes we and in parallel
756
00:29:14,015 --> 00:29:16,414
real realities, We can all those science fiction
757
00:29:16,414 --> 00:29:18,494
elements in there. You can see what's is
758
00:29:18,494 --> 00:29:19,315
gonna sell
759
00:29:19,615 --> 00:29:21,054
more. But I think you're right,
760
00:29:21,694 --> 00:29:24,046
the more that this technology
761
00:29:24,419 --> 00:29:26,484
develops and becomes part of people's lives,
762
00:29:27,198 --> 00:29:29,580
and they realized, you know, it's is as
763
00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:31,906
big use as as ubiquitous
764
00:29:32,453 --> 00:29:34,284
in the future, hopefully, as, you know, a
765
00:29:34,284 --> 00:29:36,296
mobile phone or a microwave.
766
00:29:36,990 --> 00:29:39,059
Once it's embedded in our lives like that,
767
00:29:39,298 --> 00:29:41,861
then, yes, I would agree and hope that
768
00:29:41,861 --> 00:29:43,374
the mystic system will,
769
00:29:44,091 --> 00:29:45,923
tended to decay off a little bit. Thanks
770
00:29:45,923 --> 00:29:47,834
for mentioning Scott Aaron, because
771
00:29:49,044 --> 00:29:51,462
know, I think my very limited
772
00:29:51,921 --> 00:29:53,780
understanding of of quantum
773
00:29:54,239 --> 00:29:54,638
computing,
774
00:29:55,517 --> 00:29:57,755
comes from, you know, reading his blog.
775
00:29:58,488 --> 00:30:00,881
He's he he has a great way of
776
00:30:00,881 --> 00:30:02,577
explaining things and and tackling
777
00:30:03,513 --> 00:30:05,427
topics. So, yeah, Scott Aaron, and is it
778
00:30:05,427 --> 00:30:08,233
you... University of Texas. It is Scott where
779
00:30:08,233 --> 00:30:10,383
does at at the moment. Yeah. So I'd...
780
00:30:10,701 --> 00:30:12,953
You know, if you're interested in quantum technologies
781
00:30:13,010 --> 00:30:15,717
and and and have a sort of AAA
782
00:30:15,717 --> 00:30:16,217
sane
783
00:30:16,845 --> 00:30:18,667
explanation of what's going on in a in
784
00:30:18,667 --> 00:30:20,887
a field. I think that's very over hyped.
785
00:30:21,362 --> 00:30:23,344
Scott Arr is is your person.
786
00:30:24,153 --> 00:30:27,257
Absolutely. So finally Phil as a Canadian who
787
00:30:27,257 --> 00:30:28,848
grew up in the 19 seventies.
788
00:30:29,405 --> 00:30:32,270
I I think I'm compelled or maybe even
789
00:30:32,270 --> 00:30:36,296
required by... Federal Canadian law to end this
790
00:30:36,355 --> 00:30:36,915
interview with
791
00:30:37,794 --> 00:30:40,371
discussion of the physics of the rock band
792
00:30:40,510 --> 00:30:40,884
rush
793
00:30:41,484 --> 00:30:44,200
who, I think you're AAA big fan of.
794
00:30:45,239 --> 00:30:45,878
Russia, of course,
795
00:30:46,597 --> 00:30:47,097
emerged
796
00:30:47,875 --> 00:30:49,109
in Toronto
797
00:30:49,728 --> 00:30:51,566
in the 19 seventies. And,
798
00:30:52,525 --> 00:30:55,243
sadly, the drummer Neil Per died a few
799
00:30:55,243 --> 00:30:58,140
years ago. So I'm guessing that the band
800
00:30:58,454 --> 00:31:01,878
is no more. But. So can can you
801
00:31:01,878 --> 00:31:04,188
tell us something about the physics of Russia?
802
00:31:05,224 --> 00:31:06,816
Thank you so much for raising Russia from
803
00:31:06,976 --> 00:31:09,230
Royce? Of, I'm on my favorite bond, In
804
00:31:09,230 --> 00:31:11,070
fact, 1 of the very first rock albums
805
00:31:11,230 --> 00:31:12,990
I heard was something called all the world's
806
00:31:12,990 --> 00:31:15,309
stage, which is our live Album from 19
807
00:31:15,309 --> 00:31:15,950
76.
808
00:31:16,601 --> 00:31:17,101
And
809
00:31:17,634 --> 00:31:18,827
the singers vocals,
810
00:31:19,224 --> 00:31:21,950
Getty Lee's, vocals are absolutely in the stratosphere.
811
00:31:22,244 --> 00:31:24,708
It's no... It's incredible. He sings no higher
812
00:31:24,708 --> 00:31:25,208
than
813
00:31:25,518 --> 00:31:27,608
any human ever could. And
814
00:31:28,301 --> 00:31:30,368
it's always been a source of disappointment to
815
00:31:30,368 --> 00:31:32,435
me that there aren't more people like Ged
816
00:31:32,435 --> 00:31:34,446
lee in terms of the the the vocal
817
00:31:34,503 --> 00:31:34,900
gymnastics.
818
00:31:35,392 --> 00:31:35,710
But
819
00:31:36,504 --> 00:31:38,490
yeah. I'm a Master fan, Rush was saying
820
00:31:38,490 --> 00:31:41,191
before we started recording, there was a conference
821
00:31:41,191 --> 00:31:43,336
in Toronto a number of years back.
822
00:31:43,987 --> 00:31:46,615
And I'm such a massive ro nerd that
823
00:31:46,774 --> 00:31:49,481
I held on to the luggage tag because
824
00:31:49,481 --> 00:31:51,631
it has the letters YYZ
825
00:31:51,631 --> 00:31:52,995
on it. Which is the name of a
826
00:31:53,153 --> 00:31:53,629
Ross song,
827
00:31:54,738 --> 00:31:57,036
and they based on the call sign Toronto
828
00:31:57,273 --> 00:31:57,986
Toronto Airport.
829
00:31:58,858 --> 00:32:02,531
Ru, feature not infrequently in that Burke you
830
00:32:02,531 --> 00:32:04,463
mentioned there the inside. Goes to.
831
00:32:05,236 --> 00:32:07,304
Not surprising. They even have a song called
832
00:32:07,304 --> 00:32:07,861
natural science.
833
00:32:08,353 --> 00:32:09,647
So rush really
834
00:32:10,259 --> 00:32:10,974
have very...
835
00:32:12,484 --> 00:32:13,834
How can I put it sync period?
836
00:32:14,708 --> 00:32:17,500
Almost martin mathematical rhythms. They're they're they're very
837
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:20,118
famous for being off k. I've met an
838
00:32:20,118 --> 00:32:21,411
awful lot of science
839
00:32:22,656 --> 00:32:23,156
scientists,
840
00:32:23,703 --> 00:32:27,040
science fans, physicists who are heavily into roche.
841
00:32:27,199 --> 00:32:30,219
There's something very intriguing about pro rock,
842
00:32:31,109 --> 00:32:33,820
the patterns in pro and what do all
843
00:32:33,820 --> 00:32:36,532
scientists do where we search for patterns? I
844
00:32:36,532 --> 00:32:38,686
guess if we're broadly defining what, you know,
845
00:32:39,005 --> 00:32:40,201
what does the scientists do?
846
00:32:41,014 --> 00:32:42,049
As I used to say when I go
847
00:32:42,049 --> 00:32:44,281
out to to sort of primary schools. And
848
00:32:44,281 --> 00:32:45,556
so what does the scientists used to search
849
00:32:45,556 --> 00:32:47,388
for patterns. And I think there's something about
850
00:32:47,388 --> 00:32:49,475
those patterns and those... Sink of patients in
851
00:32:49,475 --> 00:32:52,763
pro and bonds like Roche, king crimson and
852
00:32:53,538 --> 00:32:55,051
early genesis, etcetera, etcetera.
853
00:32:55,784 --> 00:32:58,038
That really connects to the the the scientists
854
00:32:59,213 --> 00:33:01,127
way of thinking I would say. So... Yeah.
855
00:33:01,366 --> 00:33:04,237
Russia is always has been a huge influence
856
00:33:04,237 --> 00:33:04,795
in my life.
857
00:33:05,769 --> 00:33:08,329
So natural science is 1 aspect Of having
858
00:33:08,329 --> 00:33:09,609
a song called natural science.
859
00:33:10,809 --> 00:33:13,289
It there's clearly links directly there are physics.
860
00:33:13,865 --> 00:33:16,424
They also play around with harmonic, a great
861
00:33:16,424 --> 00:33:17,625
deal. I make a great deal of this
862
00:33:17,625 --> 00:33:18,825
in the Burke. So Rush,
863
00:33:19,704 --> 00:33:22,038
play a natural a number of songs, are
864
00:33:22,038 --> 00:33:24,742
based around, and a number of risks, are
865
00:33:24,742 --> 00:33:25,560
based around
866
00:33:26,094 --> 00:33:29,394
natural harmonic on a guitar, and harmonic linked
867
00:33:29,534 --> 00:33:32,095
directly to the particle in a box model
868
00:33:32,095 --> 00:33:34,414
that we cover in first year quantum mechanics.
869
00:33:34,575 --> 00:33:35,554
So there's a really
870
00:33:35,855 --> 00:33:37,234
direct link there from
871
00:33:37,709 --> 00:33:39,865
First year quantum mechanics to Red bar.
872
00:33:41,861 --> 00:33:44,894
Song 2, Sr 2, side 1, and that
873
00:33:44,894 --> 00:33:47,049
really did me of moving pictures Russia's best.
874
00:33:47,224 --> 00:33:48,420
Album. And
875
00:33:49,058 --> 00:33:51,710
yeah. So also that way zed thing, they
876
00:33:52,247 --> 00:33:54,719
they use morse coal for Huawei z and
877
00:33:54,719 --> 00:33:56,648
the rhythm at the start The sort of
878
00:33:56,648 --> 00:33:59,682
introduced the song that comes from an interpretation
879
00:33:59,682 --> 00:34:01,699
in the morse cold. So I've just very
880
00:34:02,396 --> 00:34:02,896
recently
881
00:34:03,274 --> 00:34:06,478
lifted that idea. We did and hopefully, the
882
00:34:06,478 --> 00:34:08,387
video will be uploaded within the next week
883
00:34:08,387 --> 00:34:08,943
group. So,
884
00:34:09,897 --> 00:34:12,680
we did a quantum song called shot up
885
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:13,396
and calculate,
886
00:34:14,050 --> 00:34:14,550
and
887
00:34:15,170 --> 00:34:16,070
there are certain
888
00:34:17,329 --> 00:34:19,410
inspiration from Russian in there. The idea with
889
00:34:19,410 --> 00:34:21,329
this 1 is that will put the song
890
00:34:21,329 --> 00:34:24,132
out there. And the idea hopefully is that
891
00:34:24,132 --> 00:34:26,859
the 60 symbols audience will find the links
892
00:34:27,393 --> 00:34:27,893
between
893
00:34:28,268 --> 00:34:28,825
the rhythms.
894
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,199
The the rift, the lyrics and the underpinning
895
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,519
quantum physics for themselves. So we'll see how
896
00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:34,839
that goes.
897
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,079
Thank you for raising Ro hu.
898
00:34:38,373 --> 00:34:40,042
Oh, that's great, Phil. I mean, I...
899
00:34:41,075 --> 00:34:43,061
You know, as as a Canadian growing up
900
00:34:43,061 --> 00:34:44,967
in the seventies. I did listen to Rush.
901
00:34:46,095 --> 00:34:48,319
Quite a bit. And, I have to say
902
00:34:48,319 --> 00:34:51,441
that the the the the 1 connection between
903
00:34:51,656 --> 00:34:55,012
Russian science, that I'm aware of is is
904
00:34:55,012 --> 00:34:57,878
is is actually rather disappointing. It's an example
905
00:34:57,878 --> 00:35:00,505
of where of, where where Neil Pierce, I
906
00:35:00,505 --> 00:35:02,583
think he's he's the Lyric. Isn't he? Yes
907
00:35:02,742 --> 00:35:05,837
I got has got the science completely wrong.
908
00:35:06,075 --> 00:35:07,583
Now it has nothing to do with physics.
909
00:35:07,821 --> 00:35:10,305
It's actually bot me. And there's a song.
910
00:35:10,625 --> 00:35:12,885
I'm sure you'll be familiar with it called
911
00:35:12,945 --> 00:35:16,224
the trees. Oh, of course. The trees. Yeah.
912
00:35:16,465 --> 00:35:16,945
And
913
00:35:17,744 --> 00:35:17,905
it...
914
00:35:18,557 --> 00:35:21,186
It's very problematic because the the idea behind
915
00:35:21,186 --> 00:35:23,496
the trees is that some the the... There's
916
00:35:23,496 --> 00:35:26,625
a forest. Let's assume it's in Southern Ontario
917
00:35:27,001 --> 00:35:29,478
where you know, I and Rush grew up.
918
00:35:30,668 --> 00:35:32,914
And it's about maple trees
919
00:35:33,286 --> 00:35:35,923
complaining to the oak tree. Mh that they're
920
00:35:35,923 --> 00:35:37,594
not getting enough sunlight.
921
00:35:38,628 --> 00:35:41,015
And you know, I'm sure there's that there's
922
00:35:41,015 --> 00:35:43,561
some trouble in the forest, there is unrest
923
00:35:43,561 --> 00:35:46,695
with that 3. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But
924
00:35:46,695 --> 00:35:49,195
but but the problem, the problem with this
925
00:35:49,255 --> 00:35:50,054
is that
926
00:35:51,494 --> 00:35:51,974
Maple...
927
00:35:53,108 --> 00:35:54,566
Especially young maple trees
928
00:35:55,263 --> 00:35:57,658
are incredibly shade tolerant.
929
00:35:58,376 --> 00:35:59,994
Right? They're basically
930
00:36:00,372 --> 00:36:02,642
designed to grow. In the shade
931
00:36:03,018 --> 00:36:03,974
of oak trees.
932
00:36:04,690 --> 00:36:07,159
And so the maple trees wouldn't be complaining.
933
00:36:07,717 --> 00:36:10,287
They would be basically glowing like crazy
934
00:36:10,758 --> 00:36:14,740
how shady first thing. And they would actually,
935
00:36:14,979 --> 00:36:17,310
at some point, shade out the oaks
936
00:36:18,085 --> 00:36:18,323
because,
937
00:36:19,294 --> 00:36:21,278
you know, in the the the the the
938
00:36:21,278 --> 00:36:24,613
the forest that once grew where Toronto is
939
00:36:24,613 --> 00:36:27,550
today. The the Maple are what is called
940
00:36:27,550 --> 00:36:28,106
the climax.
941
00:36:28,918 --> 00:36:31,255
Species. They're the species that shade
942
00:36:31,713 --> 00:36:34,667
everything else out. So I'm afraid that that
943
00:36:34,827 --> 00:36:37,541
Russia got oh, this should gone out because
944
00:36:37,541 --> 00:36:39,865
the truth the Maple formed a union and
945
00:36:39,865 --> 00:36:41,535
demanded equal rates, and then they were all
946
00:36:41,535 --> 00:36:43,126
hacked down and that's how the equal rates
947
00:36:43,126 --> 00:36:45,609
were. It's interesting because I've always... So I've
948
00:36:45,609 --> 00:36:47,447
always interpret that as an allegory for the
949
00:36:47,686 --> 00:36:48,725
Us versus Canada.
950
00:36:49,364 --> 00:36:51,921
I'm sorry the oak trees where the Us.
951
00:36:52,241 --> 00:36:52,481
Now,
952
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,612
pitched claims otherwise. He claims that it was
953
00:36:55,612 --> 00:36:58,250
just a story about trees, but he's... He
954
00:36:58,250 --> 00:37:00,668
usually builds metaphor for an allegory agree and
955
00:37:00,807 --> 00:37:02,405
illusion into his his lyrics quite a bit.
956
00:37:02,565 --> 00:37:02,860
So
957
00:37:03,379 --> 00:37:05,537
I don't know. I'm a nobody you have
958
00:37:05,537 --> 00:37:07,375
to go there. But then it was able
959
00:37:07,375 --> 00:37:09,613
challenged him on the on... Because, you know,
960
00:37:09,693 --> 00:37:11,531
he's... I mean, I think he's probably more
961
00:37:11,531 --> 00:37:13,778
than 10 years older than me. But, you
962
00:37:13,778 --> 00:37:15,846
know, the the the the fact that Maple
963
00:37:15,846 --> 00:37:17,061
are shade tolerant
964
00:37:17,595 --> 00:37:19,582
is something that we learned in high school.
965
00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:21,729
You know, We learned it in in physical
966
00:37:21,729 --> 00:37:22,229
geography.
967
00:37:22,858 --> 00:37:24,530
In high school. So I'm... You know, I'm
968
00:37:24,530 --> 00:37:26,702
guessing did... Did he study the same curriculum
969
00:37:27,476 --> 00:37:27,954
he didn't.
970
00:37:28,512 --> 00:37:28,910
He didn't.
971
00:37:29,865 --> 00:37:32,033
No. I've never interpreted it but that wouldn't
972
00:37:32,033 --> 00:37:33,629
it be great if he'd to actually built
973
00:37:33,629 --> 00:37:35,943
that in because then the mailbox went out.
974
00:37:36,183 --> 00:37:36,683
That's.
975
00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:39,376
Yeah. Well, they do. Yeah. Yeah. They do.
976
00:37:40,029 --> 00:37:40,188
Yeah.
977
00:37:41,782 --> 00:37:42,282
But
978
00:37:42,818 --> 00:37:44,172
I've been educated. Thank you.
979
00:37:45,447 --> 00:37:47,041
Well steve... I mean, it's still a great
980
00:37:47,041 --> 00:37:50,731
sign. And it's always. A fantastic band. Yeah.
981
00:37:51,050 --> 00:37:52,489
That you, you know, you're you're talking about
982
00:37:52,489 --> 00:37:55,686
the connection between physics and rush. I've only...
983
00:37:56,977 --> 00:37:58,723
Incredibly. I've only seen rush once,
984
00:37:59,279 --> 00:38:00,947
and that was when I was living in
985
00:38:00,947 --> 00:38:02,534
the Uk. It was a few years ago,
986
00:38:02,614 --> 00:38:04,916
and they're they played in in Birmingham, maybe
987
00:38:04,916 --> 00:38:06,998
you were there phil. What year was it?
988
00:38:07,794 --> 00:38:08,829
I certainly was.
989
00:38:10,262 --> 00:38:12,252
I can't remember. But but the thing is
990
00:38:12,411 --> 00:38:13,548
I went with 2
991
00:38:14,179 --> 00:38:16,972
colleagues from institute of Physics publishing. So,
992
00:38:17,611 --> 00:38:20,085
there is a definitely a a physics contingent
993
00:38:20,085 --> 00:38:23,609
fabric. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. Well,
994
00:38:23,768 --> 00:38:25,911
that's great, Phil. Thanks so much for coming
995
00:38:25,911 --> 00:38:28,476
on the podcast. You can read Phil review
996
00:38:28,612 --> 00:38:31,867
of quantum bullshit on the Physics world website.
997
00:38:32,518 --> 00:38:33,733
Just look for the headline
998
00:38:34,345 --> 00:38:36,355
beyond the quantum universe,
999
00:38:37,205 --> 00:38:39,135
getting to grips with the fundamentals
1000
00:38:39,668 --> 00:38:40,860
of quantum mechanics.
1001
00:38:41,830 --> 00:38:45,195
And phil book on the connections between music
1002
00:38:45,252 --> 00:38:46,070
and physics
1003
00:38:46,445 --> 00:38:50,121
is called when the ent... Certainty principal goes
1004
00:38:50,121 --> 00:38:50,757
to 11.
1005
00:38:51,314 --> 00:38:53,144
And is that published by is it Ben
1006
00:38:53,382 --> 00:38:55,155
Bella books? It is.
1007
00:38:55,864 --> 00:38:57,776
I'm also writing another book for Bam at
1008
00:38:57,776 --> 00:39:00,007
the moment or meant to be writing another
1009
00:39:00,007 --> 00:39:02,078
book for Bam at the moment. On,
1010
00:39:03,049 --> 00:39:05,042
Do magnets work. In fact, I wanted it.
1011
00:39:05,361 --> 00:39:07,035
That's exactly the title I wanted you... Let's
1012
00:39:07,035 --> 00:39:08,789
get back to the swearing thing. I wanted
1013
00:39:08,789 --> 00:39:09,666
to call the burke,
1014
00:39:10,861 --> 00:39:13,344
magnets, How do they effing work, which is
1015
00:39:13,344 --> 00:39:15,650
a meme and also a song lyric, but
1016
00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:17,798
unfortunately, I wasn't allowed to go with that.
1017
00:39:19,170 --> 00:39:20,849
Well, good... I mean, good good luck with
1018
00:39:20,849 --> 00:39:22,210
that 1, phil. I mean, I I did
1019
00:39:22,210 --> 00:39:25,650
my Phd on magnetic materials, then I... I
1020
00:39:25,650 --> 00:39:27,843
still don't know how they work. Yeah So
1021
00:39:28,219 --> 00:39:29,333
what street me too.
1022
00:39:31,085 --> 00:39:33,394
Good luck, good good luck explaining that. Yeah.
1023
00:39:33,554 --> 00:39:34,827
Look we look forward to.
1024
00:39:35,559 --> 00:39:37,386
To when that's published and get you back
1025
00:39:37,386 --> 00:39:39,690
on the podcast to talk about it. Thanks,
1026
00:39:39,849 --> 00:39:42,152
Phil. Thanks Hamish. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
1027
00:39:49,504 --> 00:39:51,599
Last week, I had the pleasure of moderating
1028
00:39:51,737 --> 00:39:54,961
a webinar panel session that looked at the
1029
00:39:55,019 --> 00:39:56,475
future of computer technology
1030
00:39:57,249 --> 00:40:00,856
beyond the current era of ever shrinking silicon
1031
00:40:00,913 --> 00:40:01,413
transistors,
1032
00:40:02,043 --> 00:40:03,955
as defined by Moore's law.
1033
00:40:04,831 --> 00:40:08,337
Called More than Moo, the webinar featured 3
1034
00:40:08,337 --> 00:40:08,837
panel
1035
00:40:09,307 --> 00:40:10,682
working in neuro
1036
00:40:11,295 --> 00:40:11,693
computing,
1037
00:40:12,170 --> 00:40:14,420
a field that seeks to create
1038
00:40:14,795 --> 00:40:18,469
information processing systems that are lights the human
1039
00:40:18,469 --> 00:40:18,788
brain.
1040
00:40:19,504 --> 00:40:22,130
We were also joined by a physicist who
1041
00:40:22,130 --> 00:40:24,996
believes that quantum computing will play a role,
1042
00:40:25,329 --> 00:40:27,889
in the information processing of the future.
1043
00:40:28,690 --> 00:40:30,710
It was a lively and fascinating
1044
00:40:31,089 --> 00:40:33,902
discussion, and I learned a lot about both
1045
00:40:33,902 --> 00:40:36,372
neuro morph and quantum computing.
1046
00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:39,320
You can watch the webinar free of charge,
1047
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:41,710
and you can find it on the physics
1048
00:40:41,710 --> 00:40:42,587
world website.
1049
00:40:43,318 --> 00:40:45,704
The easiest way to get there is to
1050
00:40:45,704 --> 00:40:49,599
put more than more physics world in your
1051
00:40:49,599 --> 00:40:52,816
favorite search engine. And it should pop up
1052
00:40:53,032 --> 00:40:53,532
immediately.
1053
00:40:54,303 --> 00:40:56,449
I'm afraid that's all the time we have
1054
00:40:56,449 --> 00:40:57,641
for this week's podcast.
1055
00:40:58,276 --> 00:40:59,730
Thanks to Phil Mori
1056
00:41:00,199 --> 00:41:03,143
for joining me today, and a special thanks
1057
00:41:03,143 --> 00:41:04,894
to our producer Fred Isles.
1058
00:41:06,485 --> 00:41:08,634
We'll be back again next week when we'll
1059
00:41:08,634 --> 00:41:09,372
be celebrated
1060
00:41:10,003 --> 00:41:11,996
women in engineering day.
1061
00:41:17,340 --> 00:41:18,376
Physics world.