Building Higher Education's "Trust Infrastructure" with Bobbie Laur

WEBVTT
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Community engagement is relational. Like it is not an AI bot.
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Community engagement is not done without people at the center of it,
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both in terms of the community and the institution.
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So I do think like in many ways, like rebuilding a trust infrastructure,
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I think community engagement is at its core.
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And I think in many ways, community engagement can be that trust infrastructure for higher education.
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Hey, welcome to Partnership Work. I'm Paul Kuttner.
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Higher education has been in turmoil since Trump took office,
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with colleges and universities struggling to respond to waves of attacks on
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research funding, DEI, campus protests. You've seen the headlines.
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The administration was able to do this partly because so many people have lost
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confidence in higher education.
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They see it as too expensive, too inaccessible, a contributor to the deep inequalities
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in our country rather than part of the solution.
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My guest today argues that community engagement is key to rebuilding public
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confidence in higher education.
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Bobby Laur is president of Campus Compact, a national coalition of over 300
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colleges and universities.
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Since the mid-80s, Campus Compact
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has been working to advance the public mission of higher education.
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They empower campuses to partner with communities and address real-world issues together.
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I invited Bobby on to discuss what this political moment means for the work
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of community campus partnerships.
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In this episode, Bobby dissects the loss of confidence in higher education and
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describes how community engagement can serve as a trust infrastructure for campuses.
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She shares her own journey into partnership work and points to examples of campuses
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where engagement is not just an add-on, but instead is integrated across the
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institution. And she offers a peek into some of the federal advocacy work that
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Campus Compact is building towards.
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If you enjoy the podcast, please rate and review us on your podcast platform,
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or just share it with someone you know.
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You can also sign up for the free Partnership Work Substack newsletter at partnershipwork.substack.com,
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and all our episodes, transcripts, show notes, and more can be found at partnershipwork.org.
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And now, Bobby.
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Bobbi Laur, thank you for joining me on Partnership Work.
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Oh, thrilled to be here, Paul. I know we've been trying to get this scheduled for some time.
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Yes, it was worth the wait, I'm sure. So I'm just going to jump right into it.
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2025 was obviously a hectic, one-of-a-kind year for higher ed,
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with the administration in particular coming in real strong with attacks on higher ed.
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First, you know, really focused on elite institutions, but then also kind of
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focus more broadly as time went on around, you know, DEI, around research funding,
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even threatening the nonprofit status of universities.
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I want to kind of just get your perspective. If you can put yourself back in
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that, how did that hit you when it first started coming down?
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What were you seeing in higher ed, particularly around the community engagement
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part of higher ed, as all of that was starting back in, you know,
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January, February, March last year.
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My honest answer, Paul, is that not all things are created equal in that.
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So I think the early executive order around diversity, equity,
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inclusion wasn't a surprise to me.
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I mean, I think the broad sweep of it was, but we saw a lot of that in Trump 1.0.
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And we definitely, for those of us that have been in this policy space for,
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and I've been at Compact four years this month.
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And so, you know, prior to this role, I really wasn't very involved in more
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of the federal policy space at a pretty significant level. So it's been a quick introduction.
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And really, it came in parallel with when we have seen a lot of anti-DEI efforts across this country.
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So really, that executive order that was January 2025, for me,
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was not the surprising piece of the puzzle. I mean, the reason that that was
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able and not able because we actually there was a big win in court two weeks ago.
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I don't know if you followed around that executive order where where,
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you know, in essence, there's no you know, they're not going to appeal the decision,
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the administration around the lack of constitutionality around it.
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I don't think there's a lot of understanding around what does that actually
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get us because the executive order itself was it created so much compromise
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and so many institutional and so many choices,
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both in institutions and in individual campuses.
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Where they people were not being required to do things but were
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doing things because they felt like they had to and i don't
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know that just because we now have you
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know an answer in the courts that says that you know
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that executive order doesn't have the weight i don't know that that's really
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going to change the kind of the decisions that have been made so i think we'll
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have we're going to have to wait and see what happens but there have been so
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much work there have been so much um work and um threats and loss around dei
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over the past several years really beginning with Florida,
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but then really escalating quickly with things like SB-17 in Texas.
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And then we saw an Ohio SB-1. And so we have been, those of us that have been
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in this work, and I myself have been pretty immersed in it through coalitions,
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like the Freedom to Learn Coalition with Penn America and others to try to really
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talk about how we hold true to these values that,
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education needs to be accessible to everyone and that diversity,
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equity, and inclusion are not bad words and that they have real meaningfulness
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in terms of purpose and impact and real danger when we weaponize them.
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So that wasn't as much of a surprise. However, I remember being shocked in January
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2025 when we saw the federal funding freeze.
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I think the swiftness and the
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kind of just carelessness that was that federal funding freeze and when that
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happened i think that said i would say safe to say everyone on everyone was
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on their toes of like this feels like we've gone from what could be possible to worst case scenario,
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quicker than I think anybody thought would be possible. So I think since then,
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it has been, particularly when you look at like that January to September,
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October standpoint, when the compact, you know, when the compact from the administration
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hit the streets, you know, in September and October, I think it was just a churn.
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Like you said, you know, it started with the federal funding freeze.
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And then it was like, there was a little bit of give on that.
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And then And it wasn't an attack on accreditation. It was an attack on student status.
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I mean, what we saw happening around immigration and international students,
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and then it was an attack on a continued attack around research dollars and
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direct institutional, you know, attacks and deals being made.
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Like it's just been a lot to keep up with.
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So I think some of that, to be honest, I have been surprised by it.
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Higher education writ large has been something that republicans and democrats
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have long understood the value of it's a you know it's one of the greatest strengths
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of our country it's something we are regarded about around the world and i think
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in the sector we thought we were a lot safer,
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than we have turned out to be um in terms of like people particularly the research enterprise,
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i i think we all felt you know this is where the most innovative and scientific
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discovery happens in the world
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that like no one in their right mind would be coming to destroy them.
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And I think we've all been pretty shocked at like that even something like that is at risk.
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For sure. Now, you mentioned the compact. So that's the compact for academic
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excellence in higher education, which the administration put out.
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It brought together a bunch of different priorities. The administration have
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a bunch of critiques of higher ed into kind of a list of priorities that universities
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and colleges would be asked to align with in order to get kind of preferential treatment for funding.
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I think you, I know you mentioned last time we talked that having it called
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a compact was a bit problematic for you all over at Campus Compact.
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Yeah, yeah, not ideal wording, not ideal wording at all.
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There was a ton of pushback on it, obviously, from higher ed,
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people raising issues of free speech, academic independence, autonomy.
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And I think at this point, Like, none of the original institutions signed it,
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and there's like a couple small conservative colleges that have signed on to
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it, like the one Ron DeSantis overhauled in Florida.
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But it's still evolving. It's still kind of out in the world there and potentially
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could come back in another form once they get feedback on it.
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I wanted to ask you, though, you wrote a really interesting piece right after
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it came out talking about the work of Campus Compact.
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It was called A Higher Education Compact in Action. You put it out on the
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Campus Compact website.
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And I was intrigued by your take on it because you kind of reframed things.
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You sort of, you know, you shared that you agreed with many of the concerns
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about government overreach, but you argued that we sort of can't be in defensive mode around this.
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And I specifically want to quote you here. And I ask you sort of how your thinking may have evolved.
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So you said, the value of higher education is under question.
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While it is tempting to dismiss the loss of public confidence as partisan,
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narrow-minded, short-sighted, or just a messaging issue, we need to take it seriously.
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It's a trend that has been building over years and is based on valid and wide-ranging concerns.
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So before we get to the kind of the solutions you pointed towards,
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I wanted to ask you, what do you see as the valid and wide ranging concerns
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at higher ed that we need to be really paying attention to?
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Yeah. And, you know, I would stand by that quote still today,
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right? Which isn't always the case, these moments where sometimes you make,
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you say something in the best, you know, in the context that you're in,
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and then you look back and you say, I don't, I would shift there.
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I think those, those feelings really still ring true for me.
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And I would say, I think, Paul, you know, I've spent a career in community engagement, as have you.
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I think that positionality and the people that do this work day and day out
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in community engagement, I think that that probably resonates a lot with those
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of us in community engagement.
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And what I mean by that is we are often the people who are sitting on our campuses
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really trying to walk a line of saying, like, there is harm.
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There is potential harm. The universities are not getting everything right.
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We are, like, the problem solvers.
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So I think the confidence numbers, and that is just a statistic that's factual,
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you know, we have seen the confidence numbers in higher education falling for years.
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You know, that's part of where I think created this really challenging landscape
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for us. while we were being attacked, we necessarily weren't in a time where
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broadly across the country, we had everybody coming to our defense.
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And I think some of the reasons for that, like you said, like,
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what are those reasons where I'm saying, like, we have to look in the mirror,
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you know, there's real financial ones, you know, we have higher education in
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terms of its affordability is always the, it's like the number one reasons that
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people have questions about confidence in higher education.
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You know, we have a student loan debt crisis in this country.
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Many people are priced out of getting a college education. And there's lots
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of interesting, innovative solutions, particularly around community colleges in that.
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But the price of higher education, by and large, has skyrocketed.
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At the same time, we have massive increases in just wealth equity gaps across this country.
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So like we are experiencing a time just as Americans where, you know,
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the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.
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And when you have a higher education system that's talking about economic and
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social mobility a lot, I think we need to kind of look in the mirror and talk
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about, like, yes, there are campuses
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that are doing, that are excellent at economic and social mobility.
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But writ large, what's the responsibility of the sector in the broader distribution
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of wealth in this country?
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And I think that has caused, you know,
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a lot of middle America and folks that aren't pursuing degrees in higher education
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to begin to feel very separate from this institution that feels like this elitist
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kind of continuing to contribute to something that they don't feel is accessible to them.
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You know, when you look in rural America, that is increasingly true.
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Like so the demographics of these confidence questions both
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along political lines are stark and
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then also around geography are stark around the urban
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world divide um i also think that i actually was just on a panel two weeks ago
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at aacnu around advancing public trust and i was asked a question about this
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and i i don't have and i i talked about this a little bit in that um compact and action statement.
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And I don't have this really well tuned, but there's something for me.
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That I'm sitting with that higher education and the work that I have spent my
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career doing and you, Paul, has really been about making the case that higher
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education is essential to our communities.
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We are drivers of not just economic development, but community well-being and
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health equity and what it means to create thriving communities for all,
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because there's so much that we do as colleges and universities that is beyond
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the students that walk through our doors and get degrees.
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And I think there we have to take stock in the fact that so many people are suffering.
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They don't have access to healthy food. They aren't finding ways to find affordable housing.
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They're not able to find jobs that provide living wages. You know,
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we have climate change, climate change crisis is creating just systemic issues.
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We have a mental health crisis across this country that's the worst it's ever been.
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I think the fact that we have so much, so many challenges broadly in society
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and at the same time we have spent decades talking about the critical importance
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of higher education in our communities,
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like those two things for me are also sitting there of like,
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why would we expect broad society to be super confident about something when
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writ large, all the things that are sitting at the kitchen table are really tough.
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And so if we're yelling from the rooftop that like college universities are
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essential anchors in our communities,
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they are drivers of all these things, Like they are like critical to how our
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society functions and society is not functioning very well for the average person like that.
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I don't have the exact data points on, but I also think that is playing in to
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the confidence and it's not as clear cut when you look at the reasons,
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because I don't think that we understand how to ask that question.
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Yeah.
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But I think that that's, that's a piece of this. And, and that's how,
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that's how higher education is getting.
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We're seeing similar data points around confidence on
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just you know trust in government and that's a lot of why so those numbers and
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trust in government have been falling for years again way before this current
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administration and we know that that's why people no longer feel like government
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is serving them and i think there's something there about just the health of our community society,
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and people,
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And then the connection, because I feel like we've been effective in making
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the case that higher education is essential.
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And so I feel like that's a piece of also what's happening that is harder to
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put your exact finger on.
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Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I think one of the complicated things,
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you know, when you're doing partnership work between communities and universities
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at the local level, You're often sort of in these in-between spaces where you're
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sort of arguing for higher ed in community,
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like why community partners should consider working with and collaborating with
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higher ed despite past harm, despite distrust.
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And then you're also in higher ed arguing for how they need to change.
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Now, it almost seems like we've now projected that onto the national level.
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And it puts us in a funny position because, as you said, people in community
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engagement are many of the people who have been pointing out flaws in higher
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education and things that we need to change over time.
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But now with these attacks that are not necessarily always in good faith,
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there is an urge, I think, for many people to sort of hunker down and be defensive
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and not engage in those conversations because they're not necessarily good faith,
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productive conversations.
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And so it's just hard to figure out kind of how to navigate these larger debates
00:16:35.324 --> 00:16:39.844
without without falling back into kind of total defensiveness and higher ed
00:16:39.844 --> 00:16:44.044
is great and why are you, which I think you're trying to navigate.
00:16:44.184 --> 00:16:47.884
So I'm wondering how you see, how do you picture yourself navigating that?
00:16:47.984 --> 00:16:51.404
How do you think we collectively should be thinking about that tension?
00:16:52.632 --> 00:16:56.852
Yeah. So I'm definitely not on the side of that. We don't need to be defending ourselves.
00:16:57.152 --> 00:17:00.292
And frankly, I don't know that a lot of people think we've effectively defended
00:17:00.292 --> 00:17:04.552
ourselves and ourselves being higher education as a sector this year.
00:17:05.812 --> 00:17:11.452
So I think that what's important, you know, there's like a typology that I've
00:17:11.452 --> 00:17:15.092
heard of, like you need builders, bridges, bridgers and blockers.
00:17:15.252 --> 00:17:19.132
Like when you're talking about trying to address a moment like this and in a
00:17:19.132 --> 00:17:22.432
set of attacks like this, you know, there's multiple roles that need to be played.
00:17:22.632 --> 00:17:26.072
So you need bridgers, you need builders, and you need blockers.
00:17:26.192 --> 00:17:29.932
And the blockers are you need, particularly in this case, the biggest strength
00:17:29.932 --> 00:17:31.412
we have had has been the legal community.
00:17:31.672 --> 00:17:36.452
So organizations like Democracy Forward, that I don't think most folks had heard
00:17:36.452 --> 00:17:40.292
of a year ago today, have been essential.
00:17:40.292 --> 00:17:44.832
I mean, you know, holding, you know, utilizing our justice system to be able
00:17:44.832 --> 00:17:46.992
to call out, is this constitutional or not?
00:17:47.192 --> 00:17:51.572
Is it fair to be, you know, attacking whether it's endowment taxes or whether
00:17:51.572 --> 00:17:53.972
it's federal funding freezes or whether it's a tax on, you know,
00:17:54.072 --> 00:17:55.592
using executive orders in certain ways?
00:17:56.172 --> 00:17:58.512
So you need people that are doing the blocking work.
00:17:59.172 --> 00:18:02.652
I think what I'm trying to argue is that we also have to be,
00:18:02.832 --> 00:18:05.832
we can't just be defending a status quo.
00:18:06.452 --> 00:18:06.892
Right.
00:18:07.132 --> 00:18:11.372
I do not think that that is essential. I think there are real things that need
00:18:11.372 --> 00:18:16.092
to shift in higher ed and We need folks who can also help build for the next
00:18:16.092 --> 00:18:19.212
what is what comes next and build for like how do we actually?
00:18:20.521 --> 00:18:25.481
How do we actually build a more inclusive, more accessible, more thriving higher education system?
00:18:25.761 --> 00:18:28.221
And then you need bridgers, people that can connect the dots,
00:18:28.401 --> 00:18:32.701
people that can do a better job, I mean, of making sure higher gets out of being such a siloed sector.
00:18:33.041 --> 00:18:37.761
I actually believe that higher education institutions, particularly those who
00:18:37.761 --> 00:18:43.501
are deeply civic and community engagement, are well positioned to be really builders and bridgers.
00:18:43.661 --> 00:18:47.581
And then I think organizations and coalitions like Compact and others that are
00:18:47.581 --> 00:18:52.961
in this space, we're also particularly attuned to do that within the broader ecosystem of higher ed.
00:18:53.101 --> 00:18:58.421
So, you know, I sit in a lot of tables and a lot of rooms with other organizations in higher ed.
00:18:58.761 --> 00:19:04.301
And a really big one just launched two weeks ago or, yeah, I think it was two weeks ago.
00:19:04.341 --> 00:19:08.601
It's a new organization that people should lock up. It's called the Alliance for Higher Education.
00:19:09.610 --> 00:19:13.730
And it has emerged really as a response to what's been happening in the past couple of years.
00:19:13.910 --> 00:19:17.610
It's led by Mike Gavin, who used to be the president of Delta College.
00:19:17.810 --> 00:19:21.290
And I've been working with Mike along with lots of others over the past couple
00:19:21.290 --> 00:19:23.350
of years to kind of get to this launch point for the alliance.
00:19:23.550 --> 00:19:28.210
And the alliance, to me, is such an important recognition of what we didn't
00:19:28.210 --> 00:19:33.030
have before, which is, you know, a defense-structured organization.
00:19:33.030 --> 00:19:36.790
It's not a membership organization that's not beholden to, you know,
00:19:36.930 --> 00:19:40.830
serving our institutions, which can create real challenge for some of our higher
00:19:40.830 --> 00:19:44.150
ed associations because, you know, are they focused on the research?
00:19:44.330 --> 00:19:46.630
Like, or are they focused on the diversity, equity, inclusion agenda?
00:19:46.890 --> 00:19:51.150
So the Alliance is sitting alongside all of the other membership organizations
00:19:51.150 --> 00:19:53.950
and others, but they are going to be a defense engine.
00:19:54.290 --> 00:19:57.310
And they're going to help, I think, drive kind of visions for the future.
00:19:57.930 --> 00:20:01.530
But there also, I think, if we'd had an organization like the Alliance maybe
00:20:01.530 --> 00:20:05.850
in place a year ago, I think we may have been able to navigate differently.
00:20:06.090 --> 00:20:09.530
Do I think that we would have, you know, stopped the bleeding? I'm not sure.
00:20:10.010 --> 00:20:14.710
But I am excited about something like the Alliance coming online and what it
00:20:14.710 --> 00:20:18.930
might bring in terms of our future ability to, like, work more cohesively as a sector.
00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:22.370
But, yeah, I mean, that's where I mean, I think there's a multitude of roles to play.
00:20:22.370 --> 00:20:27.130
And my main argument I made here that I definitely make anytime I have a conversation
00:20:27.130 --> 00:20:31.070
is it's really about not settling for the status quo of making the assumption
00:20:31.070 --> 00:20:34.770
that higher ed today is working in all the ways it has.
00:20:34.930 --> 00:20:38.150
It's also definitely not a throw the baby out with the bathwater moment.
00:20:38.150 --> 00:20:45.010
Like, you know, this is not a moment where I'm by any means advocating that we just start over.
00:20:45.210 --> 00:20:50.970
I mean, higher ed continues to be the primary pathway for people to get opportunity,
00:20:51.190 --> 00:20:54.690
for economic and social mobility, to develop the critical thinking skills,
00:20:54.810 --> 00:20:55.890
to meet the needs of workforce.
00:20:56.330 --> 00:21:00.330
We just have to think about what does that social contract look like with the
00:21:00.330 --> 00:21:01.850
public, I think, in a more meaningful way.
00:21:01.990 --> 00:21:05.050
And that's what I think you said, Paul. You said this, like.
00:21:05.676 --> 00:21:10.756
Well, I don't know that, I don't believe there's really a future for the Trump compact.
00:21:11.076 --> 00:21:15.536
And I think the thing that ended up creating real alignment across a diverse
00:21:15.536 --> 00:21:20.896
set of institutions that receive the initial opportunity is this very clear
00:21:20.896 --> 00:21:22.196
consensus around merit.
00:21:22.656 --> 00:21:25.916
That there's a real value on merit when it comes to research funding.
00:21:25.916 --> 00:21:29.696
That research funding at its core, higher education wants to say,
00:21:29.816 --> 00:21:33.036
like, this should, awards should be given to the most competitive,
00:21:33.036 --> 00:21:35.596
most competitive and right solutions.
00:21:35.856 --> 00:21:38.396
And that they don't want to do anything that is saying, like,
00:21:38.456 --> 00:21:40.776
if I sign this, I'm going to get preferential treatment.
00:21:41.116 --> 00:21:45.376
That there's a real value in the merit system of federal research dollars.
00:21:45.596 --> 00:21:50.336
And that that's what has created the best, you know, best global,
00:21:50.336 --> 00:21:51.936
you know, discoveries of our time.
00:21:51.936 --> 00:21:57.076
You saw every president really that said no, who some of them were places like
00:21:57.076 --> 00:22:00.296
UVA that had experienced a presidential turnover and put in place,
00:22:00.476 --> 00:22:03.436
you know, there would have been leadership changes at many of the institutions
00:22:03.436 --> 00:22:09.196
that I think thought made the administration feel like they would be more likely to say yes.
00:22:09.316 --> 00:22:12.856
But all of them ultimately said, even if we agree with some components of this,
00:22:13.056 --> 00:22:15.156
we disagree on the basis of merit.
00:22:15.716 --> 00:22:18.316
And I think that kind of stopped the whole thing in its tracks.
00:22:18.316 --> 00:22:23.276
And that's something that every, I mean, I think we conservatives and liberals agree with.
00:22:23.536 --> 00:22:28.016
And we have, you know, we have a lot of those conversations happening across the field.
00:22:28.196 --> 00:22:34.296
So the compact may have inadvertently created a moment of consensus among institutions
00:22:34.296 --> 00:22:37.836
that they were really struggling with in their individual responses to Trump.
00:22:39.216 --> 00:22:42.896
These are obviously big, complicated issues, but what do you see as the role
00:22:42.896 --> 00:22:49.056
of community engagement in the building role that you just described?
00:22:51.516 --> 00:22:57.056
I think this question around if the problem that we're talking about is a lack
00:22:57.056 --> 00:23:01.236
of confidence in higher education, and we're like, well, what are the pathways
00:23:01.236 --> 00:23:03.056
to rebuilding that confidence?
00:23:04.176 --> 00:23:10.956
I think that sometimes we conflate that around confidence and trust are the same thing.
00:23:11.476 --> 00:23:14.976
Because some of the metrics even we look at, there's some Pew data that's a
00:23:14.976 --> 00:23:17.216
little bit more on the trust side, the Gallup data.
00:23:17.296 --> 00:23:19.196
What's the difference between confidence and trust?
00:23:19.196 --> 00:23:23.396
So to me, and I don't think this is actually just my personal opinion.
00:23:23.556 --> 00:23:28.096
I think generally this is the way we think of them that confidence is about competency.
00:23:29.096 --> 00:23:33.756
Confidence is like, I'm expecting this thing to happen and I'm confident that
00:23:33.756 --> 00:23:37.516
it is going to happen because there was a promise or I'm paying someone to do something.
00:23:37.616 --> 00:23:39.996
I'm confident it's going to happen on the other end. And, you know,
00:23:40.216 --> 00:23:42.376
trust is a belief in something.
00:23:42.536 --> 00:23:45.776
Like trust is like, I think that this person is honest. I think that,
00:23:45.836 --> 00:23:49.136
you know, I have trust that when they say they're going to do something, they're going to do it.
00:23:49.236 --> 00:23:54.056
Like trust is often about people where to me, confidence is more about you can
00:23:54.056 --> 00:23:56.636
have confidence in institutions and you can have confidence in a product.
00:23:57.036 --> 00:23:59.976
You know, I don't think most of us trust products, right? Like we're confident
00:23:59.976 --> 00:24:03.436
that a product or something is going to deliver us for it. But you have trust in people.
00:24:03.576 --> 00:24:07.236
You have trust in, you know, an elected official or you have trust in your pastor.
00:24:07.236 --> 00:24:10.096
Or you have trust in, you know, and the trust can be broken.
00:24:10.756 --> 00:24:15.256
And so one, I think community engagement is relational.
00:24:15.796 --> 00:24:21.396
Like it is not an AI bot. Community engagement is not done without people at
00:24:21.396 --> 00:24:24.496
the center of it, both in terms of the community and the institution.
00:24:24.716 --> 00:24:30.456
And so I do think like in many ways, like rebuilding a trust infrastructure,
00:24:30.456 --> 00:24:33.176
I think community engagement is at its core.
00:24:33.316 --> 00:24:37.116
And I think in many ways, community engagement can be that trust infrastructure for higher education.
00:24:37.416 --> 00:24:41.876
And I think it's because it's where we connect institutions to the people in
00:24:41.876 --> 00:24:44.636
places whose confidence they need to regain.
00:24:45.944 --> 00:24:51.304
And so I do think community engagement, while we know is not a new idea,
00:24:51.924 --> 00:24:55.524
you know, many of our, you know, our institutions, hundreds and I believe thousands
00:24:55.524 --> 00:24:58.004
of institutions are, you know, thinking about this work.
00:24:58.144 --> 00:25:03.684
There's a difference between doing it in very transactional ways and really
00:25:03.684 --> 00:25:06.324
saying this is at the center of what we do as an institution.
00:25:07.524 --> 00:25:11.364
And that's where I think we need to move. We need to move from community and
00:25:11.364 --> 00:25:14.784
civic engagement. And sometimes campuses use those terminologies,
00:25:14.784 --> 00:25:16.124
like, kind of interchangeably.
00:25:16.284 --> 00:25:21.524
And we could have a whole other podcast, Paul, on just definitions and terms in the field.
00:25:21.944 --> 00:25:25.264
But in the resisting that urge today, I'm going to broadly talk about civic
00:25:25.264 --> 00:25:30.884
engagement as, like, a combined kind of body of work that I think have both
00:25:30.884 --> 00:25:32.604
of them criticality in this moment.
00:25:32.604 --> 00:25:36.984
And I think the moment calls for us to say,
00:25:37.224 --> 00:25:41.784
this civic and community engagement work needs to be sitting at the very top,
00:25:41.964 --> 00:25:44.504
just like we talk about preparing students for the workforce,
00:25:44.724 --> 00:25:47.524
just like we talk about the economic impact of our institution,
00:25:47.524 --> 00:25:49.824
we need to be talking about the civic and community engagement work.
00:25:50.944 --> 00:25:53.764
And that's what I think when I think about the building moment.
00:25:53.944 --> 00:25:57.584
It's moving beyond, oh, great, well, I have a center that's doing some great
00:25:57.584 --> 00:25:58.544
community partnership work.
00:25:58.644 --> 00:26:02.644
Awesome. Or, hey, we have a minor in civic engagement that we have,
00:26:02.664 --> 00:26:04.504
you know, 30 students enrolled in.
00:26:04.704 --> 00:26:09.244
To moving to, we have an expectation that every single student who walks through,
00:26:09.404 --> 00:26:13.524
walks through our doors is going to have, you know, an experience of civic engaged
00:26:13.524 --> 00:26:14.884
and community-based teaching and learning.
00:26:14.984 --> 00:26:17.744
That this is something we are whole, we are embedding in the curriculum.
00:26:17.864 --> 00:26:21.984
It looks like promotion and tenure guidelines being rewritten to really value
00:26:21.984 --> 00:26:27.724
community-based research and scholarship. It looks like having a chief community
00:26:27.724 --> 00:26:29.224
engagement officer at the cabinet level.
00:26:29.504 --> 00:26:32.564
You know, it looks like saying when critical decisions are being made about
00:26:32.564 --> 00:26:36.164
the institution, we are considering community and civic engagement in that room.
00:26:37.257 --> 00:26:40.837
You know, and you know, those are the things that I think are going to make the difference.
00:26:41.077 --> 00:26:44.317
And I think, you know, at Compact, that's what we're focused on helping institutions
00:26:44.317 --> 00:26:49.917
think about in this moment is how do we address, you know, how we're going to
00:26:49.917 --> 00:26:53.597
move forward and how do we rebuild that trust and confidence with putting civic
00:26:53.597 --> 00:26:54.697
and community engagement at the center.
00:27:07.397 --> 00:27:11.657
So I want to pause, actually, on the sort of big picture and talk about you for a minute.
00:27:11.977 --> 00:27:15.917
What were the early experiences that convinced you that community engagement,
00:27:16.257 --> 00:27:21.297
civic engagement, higher ed was something powerful, something important?
00:27:22.857 --> 00:27:26.977
Yeah, I mean, I think for me, if I really go back, and it's interesting,
00:27:27.097 --> 00:27:28.937
Paul, and I'd be curious about your story.
00:27:29.837 --> 00:27:33.537
For many of the people that I work with at Campus Compact, a good example is
00:27:33.537 --> 00:27:37.737
I am one of the few Campus Compact employees that did not have AmeriCorps service.
00:27:38.697 --> 00:27:44.197
So the vast majority of our team at Campus Compact served, whether they were
00:27:44.197 --> 00:27:46.857
a VISTA, they had some sort of AmeriCorps experience.
00:27:47.097 --> 00:27:51.017
That wasn't a part of kind of my experience. I was a finance major.
00:27:51.737 --> 00:27:56.337
I did not come up through my, whether it was high school or collegiate experience,
00:27:56.517 --> 00:27:59.917
kind of grounded in community service. I think, you know, to be honest,
00:28:00.077 --> 00:28:01.537
I, you know, I, I love my upbringing.
00:28:01.697 --> 00:28:03.757
I have no, I'm from the rural Eastern shore.
00:28:04.157 --> 00:28:07.577
It just wasn't a part of kind of what was in the water for me.
00:28:08.417 --> 00:28:13.297
And so I think where I initially found such passion in higher ed,
00:28:13.437 --> 00:28:16.837
not necessarily civic and community engagement, but definitely civic engagement
00:28:16.837 --> 00:28:21.037
was here was I was just really involved in student leadership as an undergrad.
00:28:21.557 --> 00:28:25.717
And I ended up being the student government president my senior year of college.
00:28:25.717 --> 00:28:31.717
And I was on a campus, Towson University, and that really took serious what
00:28:31.717 --> 00:28:33.497
student voice and shared governance look like.
00:28:33.957 --> 00:28:38.277
And so I had experiences like serving on the university senate and advancing
00:28:38.277 --> 00:28:39.777
things like plus or minus grading.
00:28:40.357 --> 00:28:45.437
I built a coalition along with other student leaders to advocate for tuition
00:28:45.437 --> 00:28:47.397
freezes at the system level.
00:28:47.577 --> 00:28:52.617
I had a rich amount of times to realize that my voice had agency.
00:28:53.443 --> 00:28:56.163
And that, you know, I could make an impact. And at the same time,
00:28:56.283 --> 00:28:58.683
I learned a lot about the power of higher ed.
00:28:58.803 --> 00:29:02.243
Like, I was, you know, a student leader who spent most of my time in the student
00:29:02.243 --> 00:29:03.923
government office and working with the president.
00:29:04.103 --> 00:29:07.243
And I just fell in love with higher education. Like, I just,
00:29:07.423 --> 00:29:11.583
I was a finance major and was like, I can't go out and work for Morgan Stanley.
00:29:11.723 --> 00:29:15.263
Like, I'm passionate about this institution of higher education.
00:29:15.663 --> 00:29:18.923
And I didn't have any of the language around community engagement at that time.
00:29:18.923 --> 00:29:23.663
And then my first job, I found myself at San Diego State University,
00:29:23.883 --> 00:29:26.183
working in the president's office at 22.
00:29:26.943 --> 00:29:30.323
And I had a chief of staff who I was working with.
00:29:30.763 --> 00:29:34.863
And she was beginning to get to know, what does this community engagement work
00:29:34.863 --> 00:29:36.463
look like? This is 20 plus years ago.
00:29:36.743 --> 00:29:40.643
And she asked if I wanted to help build a community partners database for the university.
00:29:41.143 --> 00:29:44.803
And so that was really it. Like, it was a trial by fire.
00:29:44.803 --> 00:29:49.563
You know, I learned right there and I got to be a part of a team that was trying
00:29:49.563 --> 00:29:53.083
to understand, like, what are all the relationships that exist across San Diego
00:29:53.083 --> 00:29:57.623
State and which of these are working with K-12 and are we tripping over ourselves?
00:29:57.843 --> 00:30:01.463
Are we like our partners actually understanding how to navigate the front door?
00:30:01.643 --> 00:30:05.623
Like some of the same conversations that I think are still really resonant.
00:30:05.743 --> 00:30:08.903
Like those were the ones that I got to know.
00:30:08.963 --> 00:30:13.743
And I just really loved it. And so I spent a couple years at San Diego State
00:30:13.743 --> 00:30:18.243
just full-on kind of immersing myself in this whole new world that I'd never
00:30:18.243 --> 00:30:19.923
heard of around community engagement.
00:30:21.163 --> 00:30:25.543
And then ended up finding an opportunity to come back and work at Towson University
00:30:25.543 --> 00:30:30.063
as they were just getting off the ground a new division of economic and community outreach.
00:30:31.463 --> 00:30:35.803
And in that space, I was able to get involved with organizations like Kumu,
00:30:35.983 --> 00:30:41.903
but then also to really, from the ground up, build ultimately what became kind
00:30:41.903 --> 00:30:44.183
of the community engagement infrastructure at the university.
00:30:44.423 --> 00:30:49.223
And so, you know, a lot's changed in the 20 years I've been doing this,
00:30:49.423 --> 00:30:50.503
you know, I mean, back then.
00:30:51.346 --> 00:30:54.066
There weren't that many centers or institutes, particularly like,
00:30:54.066 --> 00:30:55.826
you know, less resourced campuses.
00:30:56.086 --> 00:31:00.466
You know, we saw student-facing institutes and centers, you know,
00:31:00.526 --> 00:31:04.526
that had been, I think, coming up really at the time Compact was created with
00:31:04.526 --> 00:31:05.846
across those institutions.
00:31:05.846 --> 00:31:10.186
But when I look now, you know, the Centers for Community Engagement and Partnerships
00:31:10.186 --> 00:31:13.926
that exist at so many of our colleges and universities, most of those have come
00:31:13.926 --> 00:31:15.086
about in the past couple decades.
00:31:15.926 --> 00:31:20.966
So I think some of it's just you kind of are there at the right time, right place.
00:31:20.966 --> 00:31:26.306
So for me, like I've had the chance to build a lot, like most of my career has
00:31:26.306 --> 00:31:31.106
been spent building things from the ground up and, you know,
00:31:31.206 --> 00:31:34.946
being and that required early on learning from others,
00:31:35.386 --> 00:31:38.486
like getting to know, well, what was working at this institution?
00:31:38.486 --> 00:31:41.166
And like, how can that impact and influence what we're doing here?
00:31:41.246 --> 00:31:43.846
Like, we don't need to we don't need to reinvent every wheel.
00:31:44.066 --> 00:31:48.126
And I was involved with networks from the very beginning when I went to Tassel
00:31:48.126 --> 00:31:53.686
because of Kumu. And so I always had this blessing from at least that time,
00:31:53.786 --> 00:31:57.306
which was 2006 when I came back to Towson. So 20 years ago, that's crazy.
00:31:57.786 --> 00:32:02.886
So 20 years ago, when I returned to the university, I started working with Kumu in 2006.
00:32:03.086 --> 00:32:07.706
And so from that time, I was always carrying this kind of duality of like doing
00:32:07.706 --> 00:32:11.606
the work on campus, but then getting to be in this space of kind of national
00:32:11.606 --> 00:32:13.246
network where it was like,
00:32:13.346 --> 00:32:16.146
I just always felt like it was just this beautiful thing of like,
00:32:16.206 --> 00:32:18.926
I get to see what's working other places and what's not working.
00:32:19.046 --> 00:32:23.266
And then I also have responsibility of making this happen in all my campus and
00:32:23.266 --> 00:32:25.786
in the community I live and love.
00:32:26.126 --> 00:32:30.366
And so that's really and then I care and then I stayed for 15 years,
00:32:30.546 --> 00:32:33.626
which was, I think, longer than I know. I know I expected in 2006.
00:32:33.926 --> 00:32:36.746
But, you know, this work takes time. I think we all know that,
00:32:36.766 --> 00:32:40.046
too. You can't do this work quick. You have to.
00:32:40.046 --> 00:32:44.246
Share a couple of the projects that you built and just kind of the just a little
00:32:44.246 --> 00:32:46.846
bit of the the life of them that really.
00:32:48.447 --> 00:32:52.347
I guess like the spark of those partnerships that really drove you
00:32:52.347 --> 00:32:57.467
You know um so a
00:32:57.467 --> 00:33:01.367
couple some of them are structural but since some of them are just the things
00:33:01.367 --> 00:33:06.607
that were kind of very specific partnerships like you said and honestly like
00:33:06.607 --> 00:33:10.607
when folks ask like do you really miss being on a campus like it's definitely
00:33:10.607 --> 00:33:14.307
what i miss like i you know this work keeps me very busy i'm,
00:33:15.687 --> 00:33:18.067
I'm so passionate about the work we're doing at Campus Compact,
00:33:18.147 --> 00:33:21.047
but I do miss, like, the direct work with community partners.
00:33:21.187 --> 00:33:23.147
I still get a chance to work with faculty and staff all the time,
00:33:23.167 --> 00:33:26.167
but I no longer work with the community partners. And, you know,
00:33:26.207 --> 00:33:28.107
I still live here. I live in greater Baltimore.
00:33:28.267 --> 00:33:33.267
And so that's an odd thing of, like, I felt so entrenched in the community with my work.
00:33:33.527 --> 00:33:38.607
So that has been a definitely a, you know, it's been a pivot and,
00:33:38.747 --> 00:33:39.827
you know, it was something I had to fall into.
00:33:39.987 --> 00:33:44.147
So, you know, a couple of the things that I feel like I look back on and I'm
00:33:44.147 --> 00:33:46.387
most like just proud and, um.
00:33:47.358 --> 00:33:51.858
I feel so strong about. Some of them are the small sort of connections that
00:33:51.858 --> 00:33:54.938
I made that ultimately led to like incredible partnerships.
00:33:55.238 --> 00:34:01.218
Like, you know, just like when just recently I ran into at a kid birthday party,
00:34:01.518 --> 00:34:04.418
like at some Chuck E. Cheese. Oh my God. It was Chuck E. Cheese, Paul.
00:34:04.818 --> 00:34:08.498
It was two weeks ago. My nephew who was turning five was having his birthday party.
00:34:08.758 --> 00:34:13.818
And there was another guy there with a five-year-old and he's a professor at Towson in biology.
00:34:14.658 --> 00:34:17.658
And I didn't know him. And I said, you know, oh, what kind of work do you do?
00:34:17.738 --> 00:34:20.218
And he goes, I said, he said, where did you used to work? And I said,
00:34:20.438 --> 00:34:22.358
oh, I used to work in the community engagement space.
00:34:22.538 --> 00:34:28.178
And he goes, oh, I work with them because I am the research director for this
00:34:28.178 --> 00:34:31.358
project up in Port Deposit that you probably haven't heard of.
00:34:31.418 --> 00:34:34.498
And I go, oh my God, you're doing the work with the turtles?
00:34:34.578 --> 00:34:37.218
And he was like, yes, you've heard of it. And I was like, yes,
00:34:37.278 --> 00:34:41.498
I was the person who facilitated that whole early project, you know,
00:34:41.618 --> 00:34:44.378
10 plus years ago with a biology professor named Richard Siegel.
00:34:44.518 --> 00:34:48.578
And this was a Project Paul where it was like we had this engaged biology faculty
00:34:48.578 --> 00:34:54.558
member who had figured out that the northern map turtles were essential to addressing
00:34:54.558 --> 00:34:59.978
these sediment concerns along a dam that were like really need to be treated.
00:35:00.118 --> 00:35:05.678
But like there was this recognition that this town had become obsessed with these turtles.
00:35:06.058 --> 00:35:10.158
And so there was this moment of like, could we do something around ecotourism.
00:35:10.598 --> 00:35:15.098
Like, could this be a thing in this small little rural, not necessarily thriving
00:35:15.098 --> 00:35:16.438
town called Port Deposit?
00:35:16.678 --> 00:35:19.898
And this is about 45 minutes an hour north of Towson University.
00:35:20.278 --> 00:35:23.218
But that was, to me, that's what it means to be a metropolitan university.
00:35:23.358 --> 00:35:26.178
Like, you know, it's not just about right here. It's this broader regional thing.
00:35:26.358 --> 00:35:29.038
And we built this amazing partnership with the town of Port Deposit.
00:35:29.178 --> 00:35:32.538
We went out, there's a whole facility now, this ecotourism facility,
00:35:32.718 --> 00:35:34.678
student schools come and do field trips.
00:35:34.698 --> 00:35:39.738
And it's like a living, learning lab that's up there now and like that's i mean
00:35:39.738 --> 00:35:44.378
i just like was beaming for days after that conversation at chuck e cheese because
00:35:44.378 --> 00:35:48.438
you know richard's not leading that work anymore i'm not leading that work anymore
00:35:48.438 --> 00:35:51.818
at the university and there's a whole new generation of people that are doing that and.
00:35:52.661 --> 00:35:55.641
It's kind of centers the best of community engagement. So this Northern Map
00:35:55.641 --> 00:35:59.841
Turtle project, it's like a very like, you know, I think in this work,
00:35:59.881 --> 00:36:03.641
sometimes it's about a relationship that you start or an introduction that you can make.
00:36:05.061 --> 00:36:10.021
But then also like I had a chance to work with one of my biggest mentors and
00:36:10.021 --> 00:36:11.461
influences in my life ever.
00:36:11.621 --> 00:36:16.381
Her name is Nancy Grasmick. She was the state superintendent of schools for
00:36:16.381 --> 00:36:19.601
30 years in the state of Maryland. When I was a kid, she was the superintendent.
00:36:20.381 --> 00:36:26.361
And Nancy was a presidential scholar at Towson, and I had built a program around
00:36:26.361 --> 00:36:28.581
women's leadership, and she loved that program.
00:36:28.741 --> 00:36:32.701
And we ended up having conversations of, like, the deficit of leadership in
00:36:32.701 --> 00:36:35.701
our communities and just in our business community and our public communities
00:36:35.701 --> 00:36:39.041
and what would it look like for the university to do something really bold.
00:36:39.941 --> 00:36:44.701
And we ended up, I ended up getting kind of tasked with building what is now the Dr.
00:36:44.841 --> 00:36:48.381
Nancy Grasmick Leadership Institute. and this institute
00:36:48.381 --> 00:36:51.181
I mean you know it has a staff of its own it's doing
00:36:51.181 --> 00:36:54.061
the most incredible work to like prepare and
00:36:54.061 --> 00:36:57.241
cultivate and support leaders across the region um in
00:36:57.241 --> 00:37:01.821
all kinds of industries and like so I look at that and I like again like just
00:37:01.821 --> 00:37:05.581
being with pride that that came from like just early conversations and so many
00:37:05.581 --> 00:37:09.021
people I'm by far no means deserve the credit for that like there's so many
00:37:09.021 --> 00:37:14.501
people that involved that made that happen but that feels like so um just so
00:37:14.501 --> 00:37:16.421
important and relevant and just I feel.
00:37:17.669 --> 00:37:21.469
I have, when I do get asked of like staying in this work or,
00:37:21.709 --> 00:37:25.029
you know, what drives you, I've always like, I think it may,
00:37:25.149 --> 00:37:29.729
and Towson's a big part of the story, but I've had a chance to like make things happen.
00:37:30.009 --> 00:37:32.809
And I think that's a lot of what community engagement is. like when
00:37:32.809 --> 00:37:35.569
i talk about like big bureaucracies exist in
00:37:35.569 --> 00:37:38.389
higher ed but community engagement i think generally is
00:37:38.389 --> 00:37:42.669
this special little area where you can because you're working with community
00:37:42.669 --> 00:37:47.789
partners who are so resource savvy and like you know and a different set of
00:37:47.789 --> 00:37:53.549
players and i definitely have had a chance to do things like we're dream up
00:37:53.549 --> 00:37:57.149
an idea get the right people around on the table and make it happen.
00:37:57.609 --> 00:38:04.269
And today I can see a bunch of that work that has happened and that doesn't exist everywhere.
00:38:04.769 --> 00:38:08.629
And I think community engagement provides people, and I talk about that with
00:38:08.629 --> 00:38:11.769
our young kind of, we're trying to support people coming up through the field
00:38:11.769 --> 00:38:14.169
now, a lot of compact, and how do we build a pipeline into it?
00:38:14.489 --> 00:38:17.649
I say like, man, this work is really rewarding because you're gonna get to try
00:38:17.649 --> 00:38:19.669
things. Like you're gonna get to be a part of building stuff.
00:38:20.049 --> 00:38:24.809
I love that. My cat is trying to climb up onto my computer from behind.
00:38:24.809 --> 00:38:27.449
Get out of here. Get out of here.
00:38:28.589 --> 00:38:31.529
No, that's beautiful. That resonates with me too.
00:38:31.909 --> 00:38:36.909
I want to follow up on what you said about the future needing to be a different
00:38:36.909 --> 00:38:42.369
approach to community engagement that's really about a core commitment of the entire institution.
00:38:43.509 --> 00:38:47.229
Can you give me one or two examples of who's really doing that well?
00:38:48.209 --> 00:38:55.309
Yeah. So compact, I want to say, I already mentioned this, but this is going
00:38:55.309 --> 00:38:57.069
to be a heavy amount of our work going forward. I think,
00:38:57.775 --> 00:39:01.855
The kind of core commitments, the institutional-wide commitments look different in different places.
00:39:01.995 --> 00:39:06.655
So context does really matter here. And I think we have a new grant from the
00:39:06.655 --> 00:39:09.015
Luce Foundation around campus action planning.
00:39:09.155 --> 00:39:11.815
And that's exactly like what this is going to be about. About how do we help
00:39:11.815 --> 00:39:12.915
campuses meet this moment?
00:39:13.175 --> 00:39:16.775
But understanding this is not like a silver bullet. There's not like this one, this structure.
00:39:17.195 --> 00:39:19.595
Like this is what you just implemented and check these boxes.
00:39:20.395 --> 00:39:23.175
I think there's essential pieces like I talked about. There's leadership,
00:39:23.335 --> 00:39:26.095
there's resources, there's process that matter.
00:39:26.095 --> 00:39:30.795
A couple of places that come to mind for me, Paul, that I think are kind of
00:39:30.795 --> 00:39:33.675
showing the diversity of what this can look like, you know, there's places like
00:39:33.675 --> 00:39:36.875
Weber State University. I don't know if you know Weber State. What do you do?
00:39:37.235 --> 00:39:39.395
Yeah, it's been a decade out of Utah. I know them.
00:39:40.395 --> 00:39:44.835
So, and the reason I say Weber State is, you know, they just have all the pieces there.
00:39:45.055 --> 00:39:49.875
You know, they're doing the work that they've been doing for a couple decades with Ogden.
00:39:49.875 --> 00:39:54.375
You know, they have this Ogden Action Collaborative where they're looking at
00:39:54.375 --> 00:39:57.155
anchor work in real lockstep with the community.
00:39:57.155 --> 00:40:01.455
And it's more like Weber State is the facilitator and convener of this community-led
00:40:01.455 --> 00:40:05.015
effort that is about economic development and workforce development and housing
00:40:05.015 --> 00:40:09.335
and just really thinking about how they can create a thriving Ogden,
00:40:09.475 --> 00:40:11.315
which is the city where Weber State is located.
00:40:11.655 --> 00:40:15.095
But they also have deep commitments to what this looks like in the curriculum.
00:40:15.095 --> 00:40:19.635
They have a long time been leaders with the American Democracy Project at ASCU
00:40:19.635 --> 00:40:23.695
and really thinking about what civic and political engagement looks like across
00:40:23.695 --> 00:40:25.715
the curriculum and across teaching and learning.
00:40:26.035 --> 00:40:29.775
And then they have such a rich office of community partnerships that is doing
00:40:29.775 --> 00:40:33.955
work around community engaged scholarship and understanding what it takes to
00:40:33.955 --> 00:40:38.515
do faculty development, but then also to validate and be responsive to partners.
00:40:38.795 --> 00:40:42.675
They're one of those campuses that for Campus Compact, for example,
00:40:42.795 --> 00:40:46.235
they always have their hand up. Like when we're like, hey, who wants to think
00:40:46.235 --> 00:40:49.435
about this new project we have that we're doing right now around environmental
00:40:49.435 --> 00:40:50.515
stewardship and justice?
00:40:50.715 --> 00:40:53.775
And they're like, we'll try it. You know, so they're also a campus that I think.
00:40:54.516 --> 00:40:59.356
Recognizes that this work has to constantly be supported with innovation and like pushing yourself.
00:40:59.556 --> 00:41:03.356
So like Weber State for sure comes to mind and it's not about a single person.
00:41:03.776 --> 00:41:06.696
And I think that's important. There's not one leader at Weber State that I'm
00:41:06.696 --> 00:41:09.376
like, that's why it's so important. They've had a presidential transition recently.
00:41:10.396 --> 00:41:12.816
That's a place where there's not a part of me that thinks they're going to lose
00:41:12.816 --> 00:41:15.156
this in their DNA. And that's the real test.
00:41:15.696 --> 00:41:19.456
The real test is like, does this survive dynamic, sustained,
00:41:19.856 --> 00:41:25.036
you know, really like transformational leaders? because we have seen other situations
00:41:25.036 --> 00:41:28.796
where you've got a transformational leader who's out there headlining every major association.
00:41:28.936 --> 00:41:32.956
They really believe in this work. And when they leave, so do the commitments.
00:41:33.216 --> 00:41:37.956
And that's what we need to protect ourselves against in many ways.
00:41:38.376 --> 00:41:46.316
You know, another one that's a private institution that I would call out is Colby College in Maine.
00:41:47.016 --> 00:41:50.736
And that's an institution, again, that I think, you know, this is a,
00:41:50.816 --> 00:41:54.356
you know, a more expensive a private institution, but is really focused on what
00:41:54.356 --> 00:41:55.976
it means to be there for the public good.
00:41:56.196 --> 00:41:59.756
They have an incredible amount of partnerships with the city of Waterville,
00:41:59.896 --> 00:42:04.936
which is a little bit farther away, but not far from them, but down the road.
00:42:05.076 --> 00:42:08.316
And they're looking at big-time economic development issues in Waterville.
00:42:08.516 --> 00:42:12.016
And I must say, I think we often face this question of do private institutions
00:42:12.016 --> 00:42:15.836
have the same public responsibility? And I think Colby is a great emblematic
00:42:15.836 --> 00:42:19.876
example of yes, and here's how that can look and what it can look like.
00:42:20.336 --> 00:42:22.876
And they have it there, but they're also doing incredible work,
00:42:22.896 --> 00:42:26.636
again, across the student learning of looking at how community-based teaching
00:42:26.636 --> 00:42:30.256
and learning and civic engagement is not a nice-to-have, it's not something
00:42:30.256 --> 00:42:32.816
only accessible to this small group of students who can,
00:42:33.036 --> 00:42:36.596
but really what does it look like to put it across for every student, every degree.
00:42:38.216 --> 00:42:41.736
And those two things really make sense to me. They also have really strong leadership
00:42:41.736 --> 00:42:45.816
at the top, who's definitely helping to drive this and I think institutionalize it in the culture.
00:42:46.846 --> 00:42:50.186
Those are two, but I could name community colleges. You know,
00:42:50.286 --> 00:42:51.826
it's tougher to do at R1s.
00:42:53.086 --> 00:42:57.286
I think there's some examples, but, you know, I mean, I would say Penn has been
00:42:57.286 --> 00:43:00.266
an example that has really, you know, been able to show that.
00:43:00.346 --> 00:43:03.366
But this is a, you know, Penn is working through its own challenges right now.
00:43:03.506 --> 00:43:08.406
I mean, it's been a tough couple years, and I think we'll have to see,
00:43:08.606 --> 00:43:11.326
right, are they able to sustain those commitments that they've had?
00:43:11.326 --> 00:43:14.986
But Penn is, you know, Penn is definitely an institution that has shown what
00:43:14.986 --> 00:43:17.286
does it look like to do this. That's an institution wide level.
00:43:17.706 --> 00:43:21.126
In some ways, it gets harder. The larger the institution, the more complex the
00:43:21.126 --> 00:43:22.906
bureaucracy, the harder it is to move it forward.
00:43:23.306 --> 00:43:27.046
Brown is one that I would say in the more elite institution,
00:43:27.326 --> 00:43:29.806
our one category, I think is getting a lot of things right.
00:43:30.106 --> 00:43:32.206
You know, they have a vice president for community engagement.
00:43:32.406 --> 00:43:35.046
They have deep work around community scholarship with the Swearer Center.
00:43:35.626 --> 00:43:38.146
But they're doing a lot on workforce development these days.
00:43:38.346 --> 00:43:42.186
And they were already doing it. And now, even with their deal and agreement
00:43:42.186 --> 00:43:43.886
with the administration, they're doing more of it.
00:43:44.406 --> 00:43:49.186
So I think Brown's another one that really has the right structures in place
00:43:49.186 --> 00:43:54.066
to make sure that this isn't just siloed in one area, but is really prolific across the campus.
00:43:55.206 --> 00:43:59.226
Yeah, those are great. I appreciate that. I know there's others you could name,
00:43:59.366 --> 00:44:03.406
and I'm holding you to just a few, which is probably hard for a national organization.
00:44:03.406 --> 00:44:06.466
But well, and I will say, too, because I want to be clear that I didn't name
00:44:06.466 --> 00:44:10.206
Towson or some of my other longtime favorite partners.
00:44:10.386 --> 00:44:13.386
But it's because I am with with that question. I was trying to name a couple
00:44:13.386 --> 00:44:16.466
that might not be the ones that jump to everybody's kind of mind.
00:44:16.506 --> 00:44:20.206
But we all know these these couple are the same ones we lift up every time.
00:44:20.886 --> 00:44:21.966
No, I appreciate that, too.
00:44:35.261 --> 00:44:39.321
So I'm intrigued by the language that you used in the article you wrote back
00:44:39.321 --> 00:44:44.581
in October about a new compact, a different kind of compact with the country.
00:44:44.841 --> 00:44:48.501
And I think recently you said a new social contract.
00:44:49.641 --> 00:44:55.341
What does that mean? What might it look like for higher ed through community
00:44:55.341 --> 00:44:59.701
engagement work to have a different kind of compact with America?
00:45:01.481 --> 00:45:04.381
Man i wish i had like the like answer on
00:45:04.381 --> 00:45:07.801
the tip of my tongue for that paul um i do
00:45:07.801 --> 00:45:11.041
think that there are interesting conversations taking place around what that
00:45:11.041 --> 00:45:14.761
could look like and i i don't think i you know would do anybody justice to say
00:45:14.761 --> 00:45:18.961
like i have the draft sitting like let me just send it over to you i and i i
00:45:18.961 --> 00:45:24.761
also want to say i think it would be almost easier to put really good words
00:45:24.761 --> 00:45:27.081
to paper and try to circulate, for example,
00:45:27.241 --> 00:45:30.421
like a sign-on that's like, everybody sign on to these commitments.
00:45:30.421 --> 00:45:32.481
I don't think that's what this actually looks like.
00:45:32.581 --> 00:45:36.121
And that's how we've operated as a field for a long time of like,
00:45:36.281 --> 00:45:39.261
look, hey, there's three things that you can say you're going to do.
00:45:39.381 --> 00:45:43.381
And if you sign it, then great, we can talk about a thousand institutions that sign this thing.
00:45:43.501 --> 00:45:52.581
I think it is about kind of making deep commitments to sustained, holistic, all-in work.
00:45:53.521 --> 00:45:59.481
And so I think the practice matters more than like the presence in this situation. Um.
00:46:01.115 --> 00:46:03.895
But that doesn't necessarily get the headlines, right?
00:46:04.095 --> 00:46:07.395
Like the headlines that we see in kind of higher ed are driven by these kind
00:46:07.395 --> 00:46:12.275
of broader scale initiatives often that are like, can we get a thousand campuses to sign on to XYZ?
00:46:12.515 --> 00:46:15.815
You know, and those things can carry weight. They can be galvanizers, right?
00:46:15.915 --> 00:46:18.895
But like, I think when I use a frame, like we need a social contract,
00:46:19.055 --> 00:46:23.095
in many ways, this work is so local that like, that's the tension point.
00:46:23.275 --> 00:46:26.575
Like to do this well, like it's always been hard to talk about it nationally
00:46:26.575 --> 00:46:30.915
because it really requires like such a heavy focus on context.
00:46:32.115 --> 00:46:36.875
But I think we do have to solve for it. So I do think that this moment has opened
00:46:36.875 --> 00:46:42.915
up all kinds of questions and real challenges of recognition that even at an association level,
00:46:43.095 --> 00:46:47.355
as in a sector level, like, are we really working as well together as we should be?
00:46:48.275 --> 00:46:51.295
So next week, I'm really excited.
00:46:51.535 --> 00:46:55.155
I almost, it'd be interesting to come back and talk to you after we get through next week.
00:46:55.235 --> 00:47:00.015
So next week, we're going to be in D.C. We're hosting a policy and impact summit
00:47:00.015 --> 00:47:05.475
on Wednesday night and Thursday with about 30 campus teams.
00:47:05.955 --> 00:47:10.535
And so the teams are made up of the president, the senior government relations
00:47:10.535 --> 00:47:14.255
official, and then the chief civic or community engagement leader on the campus.
00:47:15.042 --> 00:47:19.882
And this is focused on, we're hosting it in partnership with George Washington University,
00:47:19.882 --> 00:47:26.342
and we're looking at using it as a kind of jumping off space for a new approach
00:47:26.342 --> 00:47:31.102
of how Campus Compact is going to think about federal advocacy and strategy going forward.
00:47:31.102 --> 00:47:36.542
And so we're really centering a series of conversations around the role of higher
00:47:36.542 --> 00:47:39.482
education, both in community-based problem solving and, you know,
00:47:39.582 --> 00:47:43.702
addressing the most wicked issues, but also like really critically in this moment,
00:47:43.922 --> 00:47:46.842
the preparation of students for their lives.
00:47:46.842 --> 00:47:51.482
And what does it mean to really ensure that our students are getting through
00:47:51.482 --> 00:47:55.242
their experience, not just with skills that they need for their for job and career,
00:47:55.402 --> 00:47:59.022
but also making sure that we're talking actively about the critical role of
00:47:59.022 --> 00:48:02.122
civic engagement and supporting pathways into public service.
00:48:02.122 --> 00:48:05.802
To do that we're actually going to bring in a couple congressional leaders
00:48:05.802 --> 00:48:08.502
who are going to be talking about their personal story to start that's how
00:48:08.502 --> 00:48:11.222
we're kicking it off um from across both
00:48:11.222 --> 00:48:15.442
sides of the aisle to talk about the role of civic engagement and how that played
00:48:15.442 --> 00:48:18.702
and kind of getting them to where they are and the importance of that work and
00:48:18.702 --> 00:48:23.602
creating opportunities and access and you know opening people's eyes to like
00:48:23.602 --> 00:48:28.402
the opportunities to make a difference and then we have a series of really exciting
00:48:28.402 --> 00:48:29.722
conversations on Thursday.
00:48:30.022 --> 00:48:34.982
So I very much have that on my mind. That's a big deal for us next week and
00:48:34.982 --> 00:48:38.142
is really going to set a stage for where we're going to go.
00:48:38.422 --> 00:48:42.782
So we're planning to come out of that with a roadmap that we'll be able to share with the fields.
00:48:43.062 --> 00:48:46.262
So kind of check back in, I would say, like, I think we'll probably go public
00:48:46.262 --> 00:48:50.142
with it more like late April, early May, but it's going to hopefully have a
00:48:50.142 --> 00:48:53.142
variety of opportunities for campuses and individuals to get involved.
00:48:53.762 --> 00:48:57.462
Particularly in this moment where things feel like they're not moving.
00:48:57.762 --> 00:49:02.462
And I think we're all frustrated with the lack of response from our leaders,
00:49:02.462 --> 00:49:04.182
you know, both locally and nationally.
00:49:04.382 --> 00:49:08.062
So we're going to try to cut through some of that next week.
00:49:08.812 --> 00:49:12.432
Could you give us at all a preview about how you're hoping that goes or what
00:49:12.432 --> 00:49:14.812
kind of ideas are floating around in that conversation?
00:49:16.592 --> 00:49:19.492
Yeah, I mean, so it is. This is going to take being together.
00:49:19.652 --> 00:49:22.612
And I will say, like, it's also going to talk about how do we build different
00:49:22.612 --> 00:49:23.912
kinds of coalitions, you know?
00:49:25.352 --> 00:49:30.132
I at Compact, and I think like most of I read, I am really taking stock in the
00:49:30.132 --> 00:49:31.512
real criticisms around...
00:49:32.452 --> 00:49:36.052
You know, even around political diversity and ideology in our conversations
00:49:36.052 --> 00:49:40.272
and really ensuring that we are figuring out how to create bigger tents.
00:49:40.592 --> 00:49:44.952
And anybody who, you know, is in this work knows that this has not been historically
00:49:44.952 --> 00:49:46.972
necessarily at a higher ed level,
00:49:47.172 --> 00:49:52.872
the intentionality behind saying like, we need more diverse viewpoints at the
00:49:52.872 --> 00:49:55.952
table to talk about how we build this going forward. So I think that is important.
00:49:56.132 --> 00:49:59.772
So into that light, like for example, one of the conversations we're slated
00:49:59.772 --> 00:50:04.492
to have next week is with a first-term Republican congressman and a first-term
00:50:04.492 --> 00:50:06.932
Democratic congresswoman.
00:50:07.152 --> 00:50:10.172
And I think those conversations are attracted to people, right?
00:50:10.272 --> 00:50:15.772
Because it begins also, not we all, but there's a lot of common ground around
00:50:15.772 --> 00:50:19.852
democracy and commitment to civic values and commitment to thinking about how
00:50:19.852 --> 00:50:21.412
we create opportunity and access for all.
00:50:21.492 --> 00:50:25.452
And so I think that's one of the things that we're prioritizing for next week,
00:50:25.652 --> 00:50:30.132
particularly as we think about Congress as an institution, is how do we help
00:50:30.132 --> 00:50:35.332
bring about conversations across both sides of the aisle around some of these issues?
00:50:36.492 --> 00:50:39.692
We're hoping, and we've been having early conversations, but I think there's
00:50:39.692 --> 00:50:43.972
real promise to engage with a group called the Problem Solvers Caucus that's
00:50:43.972 --> 00:50:49.252
in Congress that is co-chaired by a Republican and a Democrat, and to me, like,
00:50:49.392 --> 00:50:52.692
represents exactly the kind of match made in heaven around community engagement.
00:50:52.832 --> 00:50:57.552
These are the people in Congress who are like, look, problems exist,
00:50:57.652 --> 00:50:59.252
and they don't have political identities.
00:51:00.612 --> 00:51:06.292
Access to food and affordable housing is not a political problem.
00:51:06.572 --> 00:51:10.712
The people who are dealing with these issues are not there wearing the I'm a
00:51:10.712 --> 00:51:12.012
Republican or Democrat on their sleeve.
00:51:12.112 --> 00:51:15.252
They just want the problem solved, and they want better solutions for their
00:51:15.252 --> 00:51:17.512
communities. And I think that's what community engagement is too.
00:51:18.052 --> 00:51:21.932
So I think that's, that's kind of there of like, what does it look like,
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:25.479
If higher education begins to work more effectively with groups like the Problem
00:51:25.479 --> 00:51:29.939
Solvers Caucus, I mean, that's something we're trying to bring that I think is different.
00:51:30.219 --> 00:51:33.299
I also see, you know, so much of our work in higher education when it comes
00:51:33.299 --> 00:51:37.039
to advocacy, you know, it's about federal financial aid. It's about,
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:38.599
you know, federal research dollars.
00:51:38.999 --> 00:51:43.759
There are such good people fighting those fights and focusing on those agendas.
00:51:43.759 --> 00:51:46.079
I think we're really trying to be clear at Compact.
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:49.819
We're trying to talk about an agenda that is about how do we advance higher
00:51:49.819 --> 00:51:52.039
education's capacity to solve problems in our communities?
00:51:52.219 --> 00:51:56.639
How do we address, how do we prioritize higher education's responsibility around
00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:59.699
civic engagement and preparing the next generation of leaders?
00:52:00.379 --> 00:52:04.079
And I think there's a lot of common ground on that. And I think that's,
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:07.879
again, why community and civic engagement is a path forward,
00:52:07.999 --> 00:52:13.659
because that actually, we know that there is shared interest among both political
00:52:13.659 --> 00:52:15.019
parties to think about those things.
00:52:15.899 --> 00:52:19.779
And, you know, there's a lot of places to start from of people understanding,
00:52:19.779 --> 00:52:22.939
like, we want people in our communities to have access to good jobs.
00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:28.179
And we want hospitals that are being able to serve in rural areas.
00:52:28.619 --> 00:52:31.759
And being able to have conversations around what is the role of higher ed in
00:52:31.759 --> 00:52:36.199
that, like, can I think open up what right now feels like a really polarized,
00:52:36.419 --> 00:52:37.639
tough environment to function in.
00:52:38.059 --> 00:52:42.399
So that's part of what we're going to start a conversation about next week.
00:52:42.399 --> 00:52:44.819
By no means hold me to like us solving the problems.
00:52:44.999 --> 00:52:48.579
But there's also, you know, some big votes on immigration next week.
00:52:48.699 --> 00:52:52.039
So we'll see who actually we're able to get come, right? Because,
00:52:52.219 --> 00:52:54.859
you know, there's a lot of stuff that's on the plates for everybody.
00:52:55.159 --> 00:52:57.619
Yeah, I know we could talk about these things for a lot longer,
00:52:57.639 --> 00:52:59.519
but I want to keep to our time here.
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:02.319
So I just want to say thank you for joining me on the podcast.
00:53:02.479 --> 00:53:04.439
It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
00:53:05.499 --> 00:53:08.439
Paul, I really loved the conversation. I feel like we had like a couple nuggets
00:53:08.439 --> 00:53:13.299
where we could have like conversations, B, C, D, E, F. So I'm here for them if you want them.
00:53:13.819 --> 00:53:14.519
All right. Sounds good.
00:53:20.561 --> 00:53:24.701
Thank you all for listening. For transcripts, show notes, and links to subscribe
00:53:24.701 --> 00:53:28.821
to the podcast and our Substack newsletter, go to partnershipwork.org.
00:53:29.401 --> 00:53:33.081
Partnership Work is an independent podcast produced with the support of Urban
00:53:33.081 --> 00:53:36.261
Media Arts here in my hometown of Malden, Massachusetts.
00:53:36.881 --> 00:53:41.921
Visit them at urbanmediaarts.org. Until next time, take care.