Parenting Different: Welcome to the Parenting Different podcast. My name is Anna Bernacki and today we have with us Dr. Adam Anthony. I am so excited to get to hear your story and get to know you a little bit better. we talked a little bit last week and you have such an interesting story, a lot of similarities to my story actually, And it was really fun to kind of hear, almost hear my story through a different voice, which felt strange in a way, but it was really cool. connected on a lot of things. So I'm really excited to have you here. You have such a heart and passion for the adoption space. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do today.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah, thank you, Anna. This is a great space to be and I just appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit about my story and what I do. I am the same race Black adoptee and what that means is I grew up in a same race household, the same race as myself, identify as Black African-American. I was adopted a little over the year of one, born in Knoxville, Tennessee, currently live in Nashville, Tennessee. And, you know, I grew up with that journey of always knowing I was adopted. Yes, that fact was very clear, but it didn't have any depth. didn't have any meaning as far as where I came from or, you know, what does that actually mean in terms of my identity, my belonging, how I it in with all of this, right? Like that story was never really there because it was a closed adoption and there wasn't a lot of information at that time.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: But, you know, thankfully for me, I always had this persistence and drive to, you know, quest for more. This is called that. ⁓ Where, you know, I wasn't really satisfied with that. And I struggle. I struggle with just, you know, wondering, you know, can I pursue this kind of journey and what does that even look like and what kind of support or resources are even out there for me to go do this? ⁓ Because immediately around me, I don't see that.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Like there's no one who has that same lived experience as me that's talking about any of this. And so ⁓ as an adult later on is when I actually began the process of searching through my adoption records, requesting that and making different connections ⁓ with biological family members and whatnot. And then ⁓ that time inspired me also through education to go after my doctorate. which I did, and create empowerment because my life has been focused on mentorship and leadership development and belonging for people like myself who have similar experiences, but also wanting to pour back into the community to support ⁓ the future generations and help make sure that they can feel supported and seen.
Parenting Different: Yeah, and kind of give that support that maybe you and I didn't have when we were going through that journey, because it was very lonely going through that search and trying to find our identity and who we were. yeah, very similar in my situation of just growing up. I always knew I was adopted, but that it was just a fact. so now we hear
Dr. Adam Anthony: Exactly.
Parenting Different: Adoption is not a one-time event. It's a lifelong journey. And I didn't understand that. And that's not how adoption was treated. It happened, and then it was done. And so a lot of wondering, these strange feelings and thoughts and not sure where I fit in, all of those things, thinking, do other people feel this too? Am I strange? Am I not being great?
Dr. Adam Anthony: Mm. Hmm Exactly.
Parenting Different: Am I not being grateful enough? ⁓ I? You know, all of the questions that we have, because it truly is a lifelong event. It is not just a sign in the paper and once the ink is dry, everything's happily ever after.
Dr. Adam Anthony: It's just the beginning. Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of parents, lot of caregivers, a lot of people who are connected to adopt these, at least my experience growing up, that's their understanding. That's where it begins and ends as far as, okay, there's an adopted child now in the mix and you're now just our brother, you're our cousin, you're our nephew, you're our friend, and that's it.
Parenting Different: Yes, yes, truly. Yes.
Dr. Adam Anthony: There's really nothing else to talk about because, you know, you're just now one of us. And it's like, well, actually, I have a whole, you know, origin and backstory that I don't even know, you know, but now I'm just here.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Right? Right? Yeah, and I mean, it's tough because yes, we want that connection. We want our adoptive family to embrace us and we want to be just, we don't necessarily want to be othered, right? We want to be one of the family, but I think there's also this added layer that has to be acknowledged too. Like yes, accept us wholly, but also we brought a story with us that we don't even know, but it's there and it's in the room.
Dr. Adam Anthony: No. Yes, and making the space for that as it naturally develops is something too that's really, really important because, I remember thinking that, yes, the belonging, the cultural shared, you know, values of all these things that I had growing up, you know, I lived a life that I'm very proud of, you know, I enjoyed, you know, for the most part. And, you know, I appreciate that, you know, I've had different things that have gotten me to where I'm at. However, the space to unpack and to talk about how my experience is different from those around me is something that I think was a missed opportunity because again, the language wasn't there. And I don't even necessarily assign fall to that. I just think at that time period, who we were, how we thought, how we felt, how we moved.
Parenting Different: Yeah, I don't either.
Dr. Adam Anthony: That's what it was. don't need, we didn't nearly have as much language and opportunity to do what we can do now. I mean, you can attest to this as you know an adopted parent now.
Parenting Different: Yeah, yeah. mean, even just the last five years, I've been an adoptive parent for eight years now, but just in the last five years even, the language has exploded and the conversations have changed. And while, yeah, I'm an adoptee and so a lot of it was understood, I didn't have the language for it until very recently. And now we're talking about it and changing that narrative. And I think that's so important. But also, like you said, not placing blame because you don't know what you don't know, right? Like it's not, it's not our parents fault because they didn't know. I think, but once you do know, you do better. And so now we can equip this next generation of adoptive parents to really parent, not to be corny, but like parent differently. Like they truly can come at it and approach it a different way.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You Hey.
Parenting Different: and not have some of those same struggles that we went through in our childhood. They don't have to be repeated.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes. That's so true. And I think, you know, any adoptive parent now has an added bonus of being able to refer to lived experience from other adoptees who walked that path before. You know, we have that insight. have, you know, I say it all the time, lived experience is not a limitation. It's a lens that gives you information about where to go forward, you know, how to navigate this. If you're not...
Parenting Different: Yes.
Dr. Adam Anthony: talking to someone who was adopted, who has had an experience, you're missing out on a potential opportunity to get some information, get some insights about, you know, what that journey's been like. Because now they're an adult, so you have to think about that child that you are adopting, they're going to grow up to become an adult. And you want them to hopefully be able to see other adults who have walked a path similar to theirs that are now
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You know, we're doing the best that we can, you know, in our respective spaces. But many of us are willing to partner with you to be able to support your child to give you, you know, support in that journey.
Parenting Different: Absolutely. And I think it's so important too, there's such a wide variety of adaptive voices in this space. And sometimes it gets a little noisy and it's hard to sometimes know where to look. And I always, when parents have asked me, I always advise, go down the middle, not the ones who are super angry, not the ones who think everything was great and wonderful and it didn't affect them at all because they're not living in reality.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Thank
Parenting Different: And so really, like, are there horrible adoption stories? Absolutely. And I don't want to gloss over that fact. But I think there's also power in overcoming and moving forward and not allowing that to debilitate you and hold you captive throughout your life. And so, yeah, there were times that maybe
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Parenting Different: something happened to me that I should be angry at. And I'm sure same thing for you. There are situations that you could be very angry over, but really finding that voice where, and the voices I should say, because there's a large group of us who say, adoption didn't destroy me, but it did hurt. so there are finding that balance voice is so important too.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes. Oh, that was spot on. And that was really spot on because I think that's where that empowerment comes from. You know, like when I needed empowerment and I was thinking about the name of this organization and what it stands for. That's the journey that I've lived, know, things that circumstantially, you know, on paper look like that's chaotic and that is really messed up. But
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: I believe and also as a person of faith, I share that. think that because of who I am, because of everything that's in me, that's allowed me to navigate those things differently. Not everybody has that, I understand, but I think that I try to use that as real inspiration. I don't cookie-cut anything. I don't sugar-cook or any of that, but I do try to share.
Parenting Different: Yes, true, yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: what I've learned and what I've been through to help chart that pathway forward ⁓ in a positive direction that can keep you just still moving forward and through all of that because it's a very layered complex journey for sure. It just is.
Parenting Different: Absolutely. It is, yeah. And it goes through cycles too. I don't think there's ever a time where you arrive at healed, right? Where you don't get there. And there are different life circumstances throughout our journeys that are going to be those bumps in the road and really kind of take us back. And maybe we feel like we're taking a step backwards, but just continually getting back up.
Dr. Adam Anthony: now.
Parenting Different: going forward and moving forward I think is so important because who wants to be stagnant and just sitting there in the pain and misery of some of our life circumstances that were out of our control? And I think that's just it. It was out of our control.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah. Adopted parents, know, their adopted children need those where someone, like you said, is down the middle that is providing that, you know,
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: real perspective, authenticity, but also understands the weight of their words and their actions about something that's very complex and layered at times when we're talking about it. And it's hard to do, it's not perfect.
Parenting Different: Yes, that is very true. Right, it is. I want to go back to the word empowerment. we talk about healing, we talk about ⁓ overcoming, but empowerment is ⁓ that's such a powerful ⁓ What drew you to word originally?
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah, you know, in thinking about everything that I've been through to get to where I am when it comes to my adoption journey, yes, but also just like, you know, I'm married, you know, I've completed three degrees, you know, I've been through the pandemic like everyone else, like there's just different things that in my personal journey, I've experienced where In the moment, it felt like, okay, it's just me and I have to navigate this and figure this out. But after, you know, I was able to think back and it's like, I empowered myself. Like I gave myself, you know, the way forward, you know, something in me, you know, something in me has been placed in me that says, okay, even if you don't see it around you, go create it, go make it, go be it, go do it.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: especially when it's really hard to do because I'm like you and I don't want to stay in stagnancy. I don't want to be, you know, in a place that it's really tough, it's really hard, but I don't see a light at the end of tunnel. I don't see a way to like make meaning out of any of this. And so empowerment speaks to that. It speaks to giving yourself that win, you know, giving yourself that hope. to move forward and believe in yourself with a level of trust that, hey, I am the person that's made for this. I am the person that can do this. I'm the person that's been through it. I've seen it and I'm going. I'm gonna keep going.
Parenting Different: Yeah, exactly. And I think you have now really poured that into the work that you do now. Tell us a little bit about what you currently do and what you have built your business around because I think it is so unique. You have found a niche in the adoption space that is so needed and you're doing it well. So tell us a little bit about that.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Thank you so much. ⁓ Yeah, so when I was in my doctorate program, my dissertation research was on mentorship programs for African-American black male college students who attend PWIs, which are known as predominantly white institutions and historically black colleges and universities, HBCUs. And as a three-time PWI institution graduated, I realized how there wasn't really any kind of formal mentorship program that met the needs of me as a black male college student. You know, when it comes to identity, belonging, just career development, know, academic performance, there was nothing that was really speaking to me or my peers that helped us meet that unique need to where it felt like, okay, you really do care about us. not only getting into this college, but graduating with a degree. And so after that research and speaking to like all these young men between these different schools, there was a couple of themes that I heard with them who did participate in the mentorship programs that they can identify and connect with and have some success in where they said, hey, identity affirming mentorship is everything. know, having someone who's been through this, who cares about me, who's willing to walk alongside the journey with me and is not too busy. You know, they're not giving me a bunch of fluff or, you know, they're not, they're, grounded in relatable, you know, and understanding like where I'm currently at, at this journey and they're willing to meet me at this level. And I'm like, that's powerful. What if I could do that with Adopted Voice? You know, what if I could do that with, you know, communities, organizations, parents, schools to support a demographic that often is misrepresented, misunderstood, mislabeled, and just doesn't really get the support and, ⁓ you know, depth in that relationship that they deserve? Because a lot of times people are focused on support system as far as support services, you know, they're focused on the mental services are focused on the financial the housing all that stuff, which is great. That's important. But what I care about most importantly is their well-being, you know, how are they whole? How are they trusting and healing their identity? How are they navigating life with transitions, you know going from high school to college or the workforce like
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: who's in their corner, like who's helping them make sense of their story, you know, and what are they telling them about their story? What do they believe about their story? What do they know? Those are questions that not enough people were asking. ⁓ And so I wanted to build a platform for that. I wanted to be able to speak to them and share about my story and you know, what I care about and what I've been through, the things I've learned and just how much I care about.
Parenting Different: Yes.
Dr. Adam Anthony: young men, especially those of color, but just any young adopted boy who, you know, deserves that space.
Parenting Different: Yeah, that's so powerful. And I think within adoption, and this is something that I think when we're transracial adoptive parents, so I'm going to put my parent hat on, take off my adoptee. ⁓ I'm to put on my parent hat here. ⁓ I a transracial adoptive parent and my eyes have been ⁓ wide to the realities ⁓ of the Like I knew it existed, but I didn't know. until I had children of color. But it's still, I'm still white. It's still easy for me to walk into those spaces. Like yes, I am way more aware of what my kids are experiencing. I have not experienced it. I also have older girls and there have been several times, like my son is only five, but the... my teenagers are girls. And there have been so many times I've sat there and been like, I'm so thankful that I have girls first because black boys have a target on their back that as white people, we cannot comprehend. So I don't know how even necessarily to word this question, but What is it like going, to a predominantly school and you're going through these programs that are predominantly white. What was that like to be one of few
Dr. Adam Anthony: I Yeah, so, you know, I did a few things. ⁓ You know, the first thing that I did, which, ⁓ and again, I think my parents developed this in me and that's something that I am very appreciative just because I love that about myself, where I wanna find, you know, my interests. I wanna find, you know, aspects of community to where I can be me. You know, I can be me.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: And, know, it's not just that self belief of, I'm going to succeed, but I can succeed here. You know, that's really, really important for, especially as a, you know, person of color, but as a black male in a community and at a institution and school that I didn't necessarily see a bunch of me doing that. I didn't see a bunch of, you know, people who look like me, who I saw as successful and aligned with my interests. until I started to connect with several peers who I've always connected to different aspects of diversity based off my interests. People of color, different black, male and female peers, but also just different ethnicities and races and ⁓ sexual orientation, religious beliefs, because that helps kind of put that colorful life vision for me in terms of,
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: There's all these different people that I'm connected to who I resonate with, you know, for different ways. And they're helping affirm me. They're helping affirm, you know, like me as a black down this college campus, I'm not alone because there's different aspects of diversity that I can, you know, tap into to make sure that I'm not just the only person walking around here to feel other. But then also having mentors and having people who, you know, were
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: some, some who were not, but were positive allies helped me continue to tap into what it looks like to be a successful black male student in the school. Because they saw it as important to make sure that I continue to pursue those opportunities to make sure that I can go forward and, you know, do everything that I came here to do and not get caught up in worrying about, I don't see another black male. I don't see another person like me doing that over there. I don't know if that's for me. No, go do it. Go be it. Be the person that other people feel they can be invited into because they see you there. And I don't think we put enough value in that anymore. I don't think we see how much of an impact that can have. Not necessarily immediately, but over time.
Parenting Different: That's huge.
Dr. Adam Anthony: with people seeing different things that I do, even for me, if I see different things that others that I looked up to are doing, I'm like, hey, that's really cool. They're in that space. They represent that. Even when there's not a lot of people that look like them or sound like them in that space, and that's what we have to do. We have to, I guess I would also encourage caregivers and parents to see the value in that. the value of what the child represents, know, what you also represent for your child. you know, celebrating those aspects of them, not, you know, just appropriating, but just really seeing, you know, the value of, okay, hey, my young black male son is interested in playing the violin, or I want to make sure he is the best dang black male violinist that this country has ever seen.
Parenting Different: Yes.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You know, and what does that represent? What does that do? It gives him that confidence. It gives him, you know, that trust and that visibility of, I'm excellent. I am amazing. And I am doing something, you know, just makes me feel good. You know, other people love to see that in me and it can just be some really good stuff.
Parenting Different: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. How did you find mentors along the way? I think that is such a huge challenge for parents sometimes. We're like, where do we find somebody to invest in my child? And how do we find somebody who's going to really partner with us? Obviously, it's a little different when you're in college and transitioning to adulthood. But when they're younger, grade school, high school, how do we go about finding these mentors because I absolutely see the value in it and I would love to have someone come alongside and really invest in our kids and especially like culturally where I can't just really pour into them and let them even though home we're ⁓ open both still are white. And our culture is different no matter what we try and do. So it will never be enough. And I know that. And I know that I can never be enough for them no matter how much I try. finding those people is really challenging though.
Dr. Adam Anthony: I it comes down to the shared interest, though. You know, like, I think if you really look in the community or school,
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: or just where you socialize and spend your time or where your kids spend their time. Where are there people of color or any kind of cultural similarities there where that interest is already common? For example, ⁓ you know, I was in Scouts, like I was in Scouting America as a kid. And, you know, for me, I actually was in an all-Black troop and that was rare. Like we actually were one of the few troops who produced the largest amount of Eagle Scouts in the country. But what I remember is that, yeah, what I remember is that that was such a rare opportunity to be a part of that. But it wasn't just because we were all Black. Well, what was it about was because we cared about leadership and community and they cared about
Parenting Different: ⁓ wow.
Dr. Adam Anthony: supporting voice and making sure that boys were, you know, in a program that was positive and educational and, you know, informative so they weren't getting into trouble, you know, and their parents could trust that they were going to be somewhere. So my encouragement to you or anyone else in that scenario is to start with the shared interest and start to really find those pathways through, you know, things that your child is good at that they have a
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: slight interest in or, you know, any kind of programs that are in the community or school that you can work with those leaders to find positive ambassadors to support your kid over time at those different stages of development. Because when they get any kind of exposure before they go off potentially to college or start working, they will at least have the benefit of having
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: an introductory and mentor relationship. So then, you know, when they go off and they become young adults, there are more people now who are willing to, you know, create these programs for young adults. Like there's so much effort towards youth development now where, you know, through big brothers and sisters, through boys and girls clubs, through all these different places where ⁓ they care about that. They want to make sure that youth feel that support.
Parenting Different: Yeah. I know that you said you had a closed adoption. And as you went your search, where did you come from and who are you? Did you ever wish that it had been an open adoption?
Dr. Adam Anthony: Mm. So I guess, you know, like now did I ever wish or like back then did I wish?
Parenting Different: ⁓ I guess both. ⁓ and the reason I say that is because like for me, I didn't know open adoption was a thing growing up. Literally did not know that that was a thing. but longed to know where I came from. And it was, I mean, ⁓ when you about a ghost kingdom, ⁓ I had ghost kingdom. Like it was very elaborate.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Okay. Okay.
Parenting Different: And so I had my birth parents up on these pedestals that literally no one could have ever lived up to. Nobody could have. And then when I met them and I was met with mental illness and addiction and I was so unprepared for it that it just slapped me in the face. So I guess looking back, I wish that I had had an open adoption because one, I wouldn't have struggled with my identity as much. And I, when I did become an adult and start navigating those relationships on my own, I would have already had an idea of what was, who they were and what was coming. It wasn't so, it wouldn't have been so shocking. So that's why I asked. I'm just curious if you had a similar experience or ⁓ how you feel about, cause there's such a push right now for open adoption.
Dr. Adam Anthony: you
Parenting Different: So growing up in a closed one, how do you feel about open adoptions now?
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah, of course. So I was just like you. I didn't know that an open adoption existed. You know, I didn't actually know really what closed adoption meant even as a kid. All I knew, I didn't have much information to go off of and that my parents didn't have much information to go off of as far as, you know, my origin, my birth family or anything like that. So
Parenting Different: Yeah. Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You know, as it started, quickly ended as far as like, you know, okay, you're adopted. ⁓ and this is where you come from. So now after going through this journey, yeah, I. I think even as a kid, I wouldn't have said that I wanted an open adoption, but what I did want is I wanted an explanation. I wanted an understanding of, okay, you made this decision or somebody made this decision. thought this was the right decision to make ⁓ based off of whatever circumstances and reasons, but why? Like what led them to that? You know, what was going on? Like I've always wanted to know. I've always been that curious person and just, you know, an analytical person that thought, okay, yeah, I need more than that, you know, because this is my life. Like this is my life. And now I'm going through it. I'm having to read or, you know, read all this information and meet these people and having to piece it together and, you know, kind of discern what is true, what is not.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: And if I was a child, I'm not saying that I would have fully grasped, you know, the information, but I think I would have been able to, hopefully with my parents at the time, along the way each development start to understand a little bit more, because we would have been able to openly talk about it. We would have been able to have the conversation about, okay, this is the information that we have. So what do you think? What do you feel? You know, let's talk that through. versus becoming an adult, having to do it at a much different stage in life where I've already grown up, I've already lived like a lot of life at this point. And so, you know, I think that is interesting because you can't go back then and, you know, be in that space of, okay, when I was born or even before I was born.
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You know, this is what's happening. This is why these circumstances, you know, blah, blah. You can't do that, you know. That ghost kingdom, yeah. Like, you know, you can create a fantasy. You can create a lot of different possibilities like I did as far as who my birth parents were, you know, searching them on Facebook and social media and trying to see if, you know, I might get lucky and find somebody that happens to live in Knoxville, Tennessee. Sure.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: But that wasn't real. That wasn't tangible. That didn't ground me in anything. just further created the fantasy.
Parenting Different: Yeah, yeah, and I think it's so complicated and so complex. All of it, right? All of adoption is so complex and society tries to simplify it. And the reality is it's not simple. And I think I look at it now and I'm like, I am so thankful. that I didn't grow up with my birth parents, yet at the same time, I wish there was never a need for me to be adopted, if that makes sense. Like that sounds like an axiomoron, but I wish that it hadn't been a need, but I'm also thankful that I wasn't raised by them because my life is drastically different than it would have been if...
Dr. Adam Anthony: It does. Now I get it.
Parenting Different: I mean, adoption allowed me to break cycles without even knowing I was breaking cycles.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes, and that's a reality that I think we can try to normalize better, I think, because there is a lot of opinions, there are a lot of stances on this, and I give respect to them, ⁓ especially the ones that don't cause harm. But I think that the reality of what you just said is powerful, because I remember thinking that while I wanted to know and while I wish that
Parenting Different: Yeah. Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: I could know who these people were and how I wanted them to be in my life. And I wanted to be in their lives. And I'm like, why? Why did this happen? Where are they? Are they alive? All these questions as a kid, when I'm faced with the reality and actually see and meet and connect with all of that, it does something because it grounds you, or at least it grounded me in
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Okay, well now we have to live in equality. Now we have to actually, know, what was, what could have been, now it's here. And what do we know now? The life that I've lived? Yes, I've loved living it. You know, the friends, the people that I've been connected to, the things that I've been able to do. Yes. Would it have been good to integrate the loss and the grief and the complexity? Yes.
Parenting Different: 100 % for me.
Dr. Adam Anthony: But I don't even fully know how that would have actually been possible. But I do think with what you just said, that would have been good to have because it makes you think. It just makes you honor and respect, like you said, the complexity of this and that, you know, that's a reality that many of us have faced. And we just want to shed some light on that, not just because, but because that's what we've had to do.
Parenting Different: down.
Dr. Adam Anthony: And if you can hear and learn from us, that helps you see us and understand us better.
Parenting Different: Right. And it helps you see your children better too. As you, you know, for adoptive parents, if you're listening to all these voices and really taking it to heart, that's going to help you see like, again, there wasn't a name for a ghost kingdom when I was growing up. That wasn't a phrase that was coined. But I know one of, and you kind of touched on this, one of my biggest fears was that by the time I found my birth mom, she would be dead.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes.
Parenting Different: Like that was such a big fear of mine. And so I think that's part, all of these things play into who we are, and I think is such it's a tough concept for adoptive parents to understand, but an adoptive parent will never be enough for us. They can be the best adoptive parent in the world and it's not enough. And that's okay. that's okay to not be enough. Instead of allowing that to intimidate, embrace that, that you will not be enough. And so really open and listen to other voices so that you can empower your kids to be better and healthier and emotionally stable and not have to live in the unknown like we did.
Dr. Adam Anthony: And you know, something that someone said to me, ⁓ a fellow adopted mom, she told me that, you know, ⁓ she had the opportunity to introduce her son to ⁓ an adoptive friend of hers. That's an adult, you know. But that friend came over and she told her son, like, hey, I'm adopted too. And her son, this little kid, looks at that adopted and is like, what? Really? And you could just see them light up in what that actually meant to actually see somebody else who is like them. And so I think that sometimes maybe ⁓ there needs to be more effort put into that.
Parenting Different: Mmm. Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Not where it's like, okay, hey, I need to have someone who's adopted. could just pair up with my kids. My kid feels like, okay, hey, you and you, you're adopted, connect. But you can introduce over time, ease into that kind of mirroring potentially, after metting that kind of relationship with that person to see, okay, I think this person might be a good mentor or role model.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: for them to help them navigate what it's like being adopted ⁓ as they just grow up. And it doesn't necessarily have to be similar color, but I just think having that can also allow them to be okay with the different aspects of their identity and their life. Yeah.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, just having other people like you in any capacity, I think is so helpful. I think the first adopted people that I really met, I'm sure I met others along the way and I just didn't know it, but the first people that adopted people that I met were my kids. And that's crazy. Like I had heard of others like, they're adopted, ⁓ that, know, and like you hear about it, but like actually knowing other adoptees were my kids.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah. Wow.
Parenting Different: that shouldn't have been the case. Like that absolutely should not have been the case. I should have had other people. But again it goes back to the time period of it just wasn't talked about and it wasn't discussed. So yeah I probably was around adaptive people all the time and just never knew it.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah. No, no, no. Right. And also I think, you know, if you were like me, ⁓ how, even if you were around them, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that you would have the kind of conversations that you would want to have because some people have, you know, adopted children at least back then, but I think, you know, had differing experiences and different ways of, you know, navigating that than me that I internalized.
Parenting Different: True.
Dr. Adam Anthony: because I remember thinking, well, I'm different in how I think and feel about this for just at least what I'm interested in. So I don't necessarily feel comfortable talking to you about this because I know that you have a potentially harmful viewpoint than I do about this. I don't want that to mix. I don't want to get discouraged from what I'm.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: trying to pursue because it's important to me. It's my livelihood. It's my origin, story, it's all of that. So respectfully, I'm just gonna keep that to myself because I think that's something that you have to discern. We have to discern what we can share, what we're able to connect with, but also be aware that there's always opportunities and ways for connection. But how you facilitate that,
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: is really, really important and ⁓ you have to treat that with care. You have to.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I feel like we could talk about a million other things, because as you're talking, I keep thinking of more questions. We can probably talk for hours. But I really appreciate you being joining me in this conversation. This has been so fantastic. Definitely ⁓ check
Dr. Adam Anthony: We could. Thank you. Thank you.
Parenting Different: him out. on Instagram you are,
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah, it's @Empowermentby_dradam
Parenting Different: Okay, perfect. I really appreciate that. ⁓ I'll tag it in the notes here too, so they can go find you and see your work. And maybe if they have ⁓ a adopted boy that could use mentorship, would be the right for them. So thank you so much again for joining me today.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Of thank you.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah, thank you, Anna. This is a great space to be and I just appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit about my story and what I do. I am the same race Black adoptee and what that means is I grew up in a same race household, the same race as myself, identify as Black African-American. I was adopted a little over the year of one, born in Knoxville, Tennessee, currently live in Nashville, Tennessee. And, you know, I grew up with that journey of always knowing I was adopted. Yes, that fact was very clear, but it didn't have any depth. didn't have any meaning as far as where I came from or, you know, what does that actually mean in terms of my identity, my belonging, how I it in with all of this, right? Like that story was never really there because it was a closed adoption and there wasn't a lot of information at that time.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: But, you know, thankfully for me, I always had this persistence and drive to, you know, quest for more. This is called that. ⁓ Where, you know, I wasn't really satisfied with that. And I struggle. I struggle with just, you know, wondering, you know, can I pursue this kind of journey and what does that even look like and what kind of support or resources are even out there for me to go do this? ⁓ Because immediately around me, I don't see that.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Like there's no one who has that same lived experience as me that's talking about any of this. And so ⁓ as an adult later on is when I actually began the process of searching through my adoption records, requesting that and making different connections ⁓ with biological family members and whatnot. And then ⁓ that time inspired me also through education to go after my doctorate. which I did, and create empowerment because my life has been focused on mentorship and leadership development and belonging for people like myself who have similar experiences, but also wanting to pour back into the community to support ⁓ the future generations and help make sure that they can feel supported and seen.
Parenting Different: Yeah, and kind of give that support that maybe you and I didn't have when we were going through that journey, because it was very lonely going through that search and trying to find our identity and who we were. yeah, very similar in my situation of just growing up. I always knew I was adopted, but that it was just a fact. so now we hear
Dr. Adam Anthony: Exactly.
Parenting Different: Adoption is not a one-time event. It's a lifelong journey. And I didn't understand that. And that's not how adoption was treated. It happened, and then it was done. And so a lot of wondering, these strange feelings and thoughts and not sure where I fit in, all of those things, thinking, do other people feel this too? Am I strange? Am I not being great?
Dr. Adam Anthony: Mm. Hmm Exactly.
Parenting Different: Am I not being grateful enough? ⁓ I? You know, all of the questions that we have, because it truly is a lifelong event. It is not just a sign in the paper and once the ink is dry, everything's happily ever after.
Dr. Adam Anthony: It's just the beginning. Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of parents, lot of caregivers, a lot of people who are connected to adopt these, at least my experience growing up, that's their understanding. That's where it begins and ends as far as, okay, there's an adopted child now in the mix and you're now just our brother, you're our cousin, you're our nephew, you're our friend, and that's it.
Parenting Different: Yes, yes, truly. Yes.
Dr. Adam Anthony: There's really nothing else to talk about because, you know, you're just now one of us. And it's like, well, actually, I have a whole, you know, origin and backstory that I don't even know, you know, but now I'm just here.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Right? Right? Yeah, and I mean, it's tough because yes, we want that connection. We want our adoptive family to embrace us and we want to be just, we don't necessarily want to be othered, right? We want to be one of the family, but I think there's also this added layer that has to be acknowledged too. Like yes, accept us wholly, but also we brought a story with us that we don't even know, but it's there and it's in the room.
Dr. Adam Anthony: No. Yes, and making the space for that as it naturally develops is something too that's really, really important because, I remember thinking that, yes, the belonging, the cultural shared, you know, values of all these things that I had growing up, you know, I lived a life that I'm very proud of, you know, I enjoyed, you know, for the most part. And, you know, I appreciate that, you know, I've had different things that have gotten me to where I'm at. However, the space to unpack and to talk about how my experience is different from those around me is something that I think was a missed opportunity because again, the language wasn't there. And I don't even necessarily assign fall to that. I just think at that time period, who we were, how we thought, how we felt, how we moved.
Parenting Different: Yeah, I don't either.
Dr. Adam Anthony: That's what it was. don't need, we didn't nearly have as much language and opportunity to do what we can do now. I mean, you can attest to this as you know an adopted parent now.
Parenting Different: Yeah, yeah. mean, even just the last five years, I've been an adoptive parent for eight years now, but just in the last five years even, the language has exploded and the conversations have changed. And while, yeah, I'm an adoptee and so a lot of it was understood, I didn't have the language for it until very recently. And now we're talking about it and changing that narrative. And I think that's so important. But also, like you said, not placing blame because you don't know what you don't know, right? Like it's not, it's not our parents fault because they didn't know. I think, but once you do know, you do better. And so now we can equip this next generation of adoptive parents to really parent, not to be corny, but like parent differently. Like they truly can come at it and approach it a different way.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You Hey.
Parenting Different: and not have some of those same struggles that we went through in our childhood. They don't have to be repeated.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes. That's so true. And I think, you know, any adoptive parent now has an added bonus of being able to refer to lived experience from other adoptees who walked that path before. You know, we have that insight. have, you know, I say it all the time, lived experience is not a limitation. It's a lens that gives you information about where to go forward, you know, how to navigate this. If you're not...
Parenting Different: Yes.
Dr. Adam Anthony: talking to someone who was adopted, who has had an experience, you're missing out on a potential opportunity to get some information, get some insights about, you know, what that journey's been like. Because now they're an adult, so you have to think about that child that you are adopting, they're going to grow up to become an adult. And you want them to hopefully be able to see other adults who have walked a path similar to theirs that are now
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You know, we're doing the best that we can, you know, in our respective spaces. But many of us are willing to partner with you to be able to support your child to give you, you know, support in that journey.
Parenting Different: Absolutely. And I think it's so important too, there's such a wide variety of adaptive voices in this space. And sometimes it gets a little noisy and it's hard to sometimes know where to look. And I always, when parents have asked me, I always advise, go down the middle, not the ones who are super angry, not the ones who think everything was great and wonderful and it didn't affect them at all because they're not living in reality.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Thank
Parenting Different: And so really, like, are there horrible adoption stories? Absolutely. And I don't want to gloss over that fact. But I think there's also power in overcoming and moving forward and not allowing that to debilitate you and hold you captive throughout your life. And so, yeah, there were times that maybe
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Parenting Different: something happened to me that I should be angry at. And I'm sure same thing for you. There are situations that you could be very angry over, but really finding that voice where, and the voices I should say, because there's a large group of us who say, adoption didn't destroy me, but it did hurt. so there are finding that balance voice is so important too.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes. Oh, that was spot on. And that was really spot on because I think that's where that empowerment comes from. You know, like when I needed empowerment and I was thinking about the name of this organization and what it stands for. That's the journey that I've lived, know, things that circumstantially, you know, on paper look like that's chaotic and that is really messed up. But
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: I believe and also as a person of faith, I share that. think that because of who I am, because of everything that's in me, that's allowed me to navigate those things differently. Not everybody has that, I understand, but I think that I try to use that as real inspiration. I don't cookie-cut anything. I don't sugar-cook or any of that, but I do try to share.
Parenting Different: Yes, true, yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: what I've learned and what I've been through to help chart that pathway forward ⁓ in a positive direction that can keep you just still moving forward and through all of that because it's a very layered complex journey for sure. It just is.
Parenting Different: Absolutely. It is, yeah. And it goes through cycles too. I don't think there's ever a time where you arrive at healed, right? Where you don't get there. And there are different life circumstances throughout our journeys that are going to be those bumps in the road and really kind of take us back. And maybe we feel like we're taking a step backwards, but just continually getting back up.
Dr. Adam Anthony: now.
Parenting Different: going forward and moving forward I think is so important because who wants to be stagnant and just sitting there in the pain and misery of some of our life circumstances that were out of our control? And I think that's just it. It was out of our control.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah. Adopted parents, know, their adopted children need those where someone, like you said, is down the middle that is providing that, you know,
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: real perspective, authenticity, but also understands the weight of their words and their actions about something that's very complex and layered at times when we're talking about it. And it's hard to do, it's not perfect.
Parenting Different: Yes, that is very true. Right, it is. I want to go back to the word empowerment. we talk about healing, we talk about ⁓ overcoming, but empowerment is ⁓ that's such a powerful ⁓ What drew you to word originally?
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah, you know, in thinking about everything that I've been through to get to where I am when it comes to my adoption journey, yes, but also just like, you know, I'm married, you know, I've completed three degrees, you know, I've been through the pandemic like everyone else, like there's just different things that in my personal journey, I've experienced where In the moment, it felt like, okay, it's just me and I have to navigate this and figure this out. But after, you know, I was able to think back and it's like, I empowered myself. Like I gave myself, you know, the way forward, you know, something in me, you know, something in me has been placed in me that says, okay, even if you don't see it around you, go create it, go make it, go be it, go do it.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: especially when it's really hard to do because I'm like you and I don't want to stay in stagnancy. I don't want to be, you know, in a place that it's really tough, it's really hard, but I don't see a light at the end of tunnel. I don't see a way to like make meaning out of any of this. And so empowerment speaks to that. It speaks to giving yourself that win, you know, giving yourself that hope. to move forward and believe in yourself with a level of trust that, hey, I am the person that's made for this. I am the person that can do this. I'm the person that's been through it. I've seen it and I'm going. I'm gonna keep going.
Parenting Different: Yeah, exactly. And I think you have now really poured that into the work that you do now. Tell us a little bit about what you currently do and what you have built your business around because I think it is so unique. You have found a niche in the adoption space that is so needed and you're doing it well. So tell us a little bit about that.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Thank you so much. ⁓ Yeah, so when I was in my doctorate program, my dissertation research was on mentorship programs for African-American black male college students who attend PWIs, which are known as predominantly white institutions and historically black colleges and universities, HBCUs. And as a three-time PWI institution graduated, I realized how there wasn't really any kind of formal mentorship program that met the needs of me as a black male college student. You know, when it comes to identity, belonging, just career development, know, academic performance, there was nothing that was really speaking to me or my peers that helped us meet that unique need to where it felt like, okay, you really do care about us. not only getting into this college, but graduating with a degree. And so after that research and speaking to like all these young men between these different schools, there was a couple of themes that I heard with them who did participate in the mentorship programs that they can identify and connect with and have some success in where they said, hey, identity affirming mentorship is everything. know, having someone who's been through this, who cares about me, who's willing to walk alongside the journey with me and is not too busy. You know, they're not giving me a bunch of fluff or, you know, they're not, they're, grounded in relatable, you know, and understanding like where I'm currently at, at this journey and they're willing to meet me at this level. And I'm like, that's powerful. What if I could do that with Adopted Voice? You know, what if I could do that with, you know, communities, organizations, parents, schools to support a demographic that often is misrepresented, misunderstood, mislabeled, and just doesn't really get the support and, ⁓ you know, depth in that relationship that they deserve? Because a lot of times people are focused on support system as far as support services, you know, they're focused on the mental services are focused on the financial the housing all that stuff, which is great. That's important. But what I care about most importantly is their well-being, you know, how are they whole? How are they trusting and healing their identity? How are they navigating life with transitions, you know going from high school to college or the workforce like
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: who's in their corner, like who's helping them make sense of their story, you know, and what are they telling them about their story? What do they believe about their story? What do they know? Those are questions that not enough people were asking. ⁓ And so I wanted to build a platform for that. I wanted to be able to speak to them and share about my story and you know, what I care about and what I've been through, the things I've learned and just how much I care about.
Parenting Different: Yes.
Dr. Adam Anthony: young men, especially those of color, but just any young adopted boy who, you know, deserves that space.
Parenting Different: Yeah, that's so powerful. And I think within adoption, and this is something that I think when we're transracial adoptive parents, so I'm going to put my parent hat on, take off my adoptee. ⁓ I'm to put on my parent hat here. ⁓ I a transracial adoptive parent and my eyes have been ⁓ wide to the realities ⁓ of the Like I knew it existed, but I didn't know. until I had children of color. But it's still, I'm still white. It's still easy for me to walk into those spaces. Like yes, I am way more aware of what my kids are experiencing. I have not experienced it. I also have older girls and there have been several times, like my son is only five, but the... my teenagers are girls. And there have been so many times I've sat there and been like, I'm so thankful that I have girls first because black boys have a target on their back that as white people, we cannot comprehend. So I don't know how even necessarily to word this question, but What is it like going, to a predominantly school and you're going through these programs that are predominantly white. What was that like to be one of few
Dr. Adam Anthony: I Yeah, so, you know, I did a few things. ⁓ You know, the first thing that I did, which, ⁓ and again, I think my parents developed this in me and that's something that I am very appreciative just because I love that about myself, where I wanna find, you know, my interests. I wanna find, you know, aspects of community to where I can be me. You know, I can be me.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: And, know, it's not just that self belief of, I'm going to succeed, but I can succeed here. You know, that's really, really important for, especially as a, you know, person of color, but as a black male in a community and at a institution and school that I didn't necessarily see a bunch of me doing that. I didn't see a bunch of, you know, people who look like me, who I saw as successful and aligned with my interests. until I started to connect with several peers who I've always connected to different aspects of diversity based off my interests. People of color, different black, male and female peers, but also just different ethnicities and races and ⁓ sexual orientation, religious beliefs, because that helps kind of put that colorful life vision for me in terms of,
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: There's all these different people that I'm connected to who I resonate with, you know, for different ways. And they're helping affirm me. They're helping affirm, you know, like me as a black down this college campus, I'm not alone because there's different aspects of diversity that I can, you know, tap into to make sure that I'm not just the only person walking around here to feel other. But then also having mentors and having people who, you know, were
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: some, some who were not, but were positive allies helped me continue to tap into what it looks like to be a successful black male student in the school. Because they saw it as important to make sure that I continue to pursue those opportunities to make sure that I can go forward and, you know, do everything that I came here to do and not get caught up in worrying about, I don't see another black male. I don't see another person like me doing that over there. I don't know if that's for me. No, go do it. Go be it. Be the person that other people feel they can be invited into because they see you there. And I don't think we put enough value in that anymore. I don't think we see how much of an impact that can have. Not necessarily immediately, but over time.
Parenting Different: That's huge.
Dr. Adam Anthony: with people seeing different things that I do, even for me, if I see different things that others that I looked up to are doing, I'm like, hey, that's really cool. They're in that space. They represent that. Even when there's not a lot of people that look like them or sound like them in that space, and that's what we have to do. We have to, I guess I would also encourage caregivers and parents to see the value in that. the value of what the child represents, know, what you also represent for your child. you know, celebrating those aspects of them, not, you know, just appropriating, but just really seeing, you know, the value of, okay, hey, my young black male son is interested in playing the violin, or I want to make sure he is the best dang black male violinist that this country has ever seen.
Parenting Different: Yes.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You know, and what does that represent? What does that do? It gives him that confidence. It gives him, you know, that trust and that visibility of, I'm excellent. I am amazing. And I am doing something, you know, just makes me feel good. You know, other people love to see that in me and it can just be some really good stuff.
Parenting Different: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. How did you find mentors along the way? I think that is such a huge challenge for parents sometimes. We're like, where do we find somebody to invest in my child? And how do we find somebody who's going to really partner with us? Obviously, it's a little different when you're in college and transitioning to adulthood. But when they're younger, grade school, high school, how do we go about finding these mentors because I absolutely see the value in it and I would love to have someone come alongside and really invest in our kids and especially like culturally where I can't just really pour into them and let them even though home we're ⁓ open both still are white. And our culture is different no matter what we try and do. So it will never be enough. And I know that. And I know that I can never be enough for them no matter how much I try. finding those people is really challenging though.
Dr. Adam Anthony: I it comes down to the shared interest, though. You know, like, I think if you really look in the community or school,
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: or just where you socialize and spend your time or where your kids spend their time. Where are there people of color or any kind of cultural similarities there where that interest is already common? For example, ⁓ you know, I was in Scouts, like I was in Scouting America as a kid. And, you know, for me, I actually was in an all-Black troop and that was rare. Like we actually were one of the few troops who produced the largest amount of Eagle Scouts in the country. But what I remember is that, yeah, what I remember is that that was such a rare opportunity to be a part of that. But it wasn't just because we were all Black. Well, what was it about was because we cared about leadership and community and they cared about
Parenting Different: ⁓ wow.
Dr. Adam Anthony: supporting voice and making sure that boys were, you know, in a program that was positive and educational and, you know, informative so they weren't getting into trouble, you know, and their parents could trust that they were going to be somewhere. So my encouragement to you or anyone else in that scenario is to start with the shared interest and start to really find those pathways through, you know, things that your child is good at that they have a
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: slight interest in or, you know, any kind of programs that are in the community or school that you can work with those leaders to find positive ambassadors to support your kid over time at those different stages of development. Because when they get any kind of exposure before they go off potentially to college or start working, they will at least have the benefit of having
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: an introductory and mentor relationship. So then, you know, when they go off and they become young adults, there are more people now who are willing to, you know, create these programs for young adults. Like there's so much effort towards youth development now where, you know, through big brothers and sisters, through boys and girls clubs, through all these different places where ⁓ they care about that. They want to make sure that youth feel that support.
Parenting Different: Yeah. I know that you said you had a closed adoption. And as you went your search, where did you come from and who are you? Did you ever wish that it had been an open adoption?
Dr. Adam Anthony: Mm. So I guess, you know, like now did I ever wish or like back then did I wish?
Parenting Different: ⁓ I guess both. ⁓ and the reason I say that is because like for me, I didn't know open adoption was a thing growing up. Literally did not know that that was a thing. but longed to know where I came from. And it was, I mean, ⁓ when you about a ghost kingdom, ⁓ I had ghost kingdom. Like it was very elaborate.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Okay. Okay.
Parenting Different: And so I had my birth parents up on these pedestals that literally no one could have ever lived up to. Nobody could have. And then when I met them and I was met with mental illness and addiction and I was so unprepared for it that it just slapped me in the face. So I guess looking back, I wish that I had had an open adoption because one, I wouldn't have struggled with my identity as much. And I, when I did become an adult and start navigating those relationships on my own, I would have already had an idea of what was, who they were and what was coming. It wasn't so, it wouldn't have been so shocking. So that's why I asked. I'm just curious if you had a similar experience or ⁓ how you feel about, cause there's such a push right now for open adoption.
Dr. Adam Anthony: you
Parenting Different: So growing up in a closed one, how do you feel about open adoptions now?
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah, of course. So I was just like you. I didn't know that an open adoption existed. You know, I didn't actually know really what closed adoption meant even as a kid. All I knew, I didn't have much information to go off of and that my parents didn't have much information to go off of as far as, you know, my origin, my birth family or anything like that. So
Parenting Different: Yeah. Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You know, as it started, quickly ended as far as like, you know, okay, you're adopted. ⁓ and this is where you come from. So now after going through this journey, yeah, I. I think even as a kid, I wouldn't have said that I wanted an open adoption, but what I did want is I wanted an explanation. I wanted an understanding of, okay, you made this decision or somebody made this decision. thought this was the right decision to make ⁓ based off of whatever circumstances and reasons, but why? Like what led them to that? You know, what was going on? Like I've always wanted to know. I've always been that curious person and just, you know, an analytical person that thought, okay, yeah, I need more than that, you know, because this is my life. Like this is my life. And now I'm going through it. I'm having to read or, you know, read all this information and meet these people and having to piece it together and, you know, kind of discern what is true, what is not.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: And if I was a child, I'm not saying that I would have fully grasped, you know, the information, but I think I would have been able to, hopefully with my parents at the time, along the way each development start to understand a little bit more, because we would have been able to openly talk about it. We would have been able to have the conversation about, okay, this is the information that we have. So what do you think? What do you feel? You know, let's talk that through. versus becoming an adult, having to do it at a much different stage in life where I've already grown up, I've already lived like a lot of life at this point. And so, you know, I think that is interesting because you can't go back then and, you know, be in that space of, okay, when I was born or even before I was born.
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: You know, this is what's happening. This is why these circumstances, you know, blah, blah. You can't do that, you know. That ghost kingdom, yeah. Like, you know, you can create a fantasy. You can create a lot of different possibilities like I did as far as who my birth parents were, you know, searching them on Facebook and social media and trying to see if, you know, I might get lucky and find somebody that happens to live in Knoxville, Tennessee. Sure.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: But that wasn't real. That wasn't tangible. That didn't ground me in anything. just further created the fantasy.
Parenting Different: Yeah, yeah, and I think it's so complicated and so complex. All of it, right? All of adoption is so complex and society tries to simplify it. And the reality is it's not simple. And I think I look at it now and I'm like, I am so thankful. that I didn't grow up with my birth parents, yet at the same time, I wish there was never a need for me to be adopted, if that makes sense. Like that sounds like an axiomoron, but I wish that it hadn't been a need, but I'm also thankful that I wasn't raised by them because my life is drastically different than it would have been if...
Dr. Adam Anthony: It does. Now I get it.
Parenting Different: I mean, adoption allowed me to break cycles without even knowing I was breaking cycles.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes, and that's a reality that I think we can try to normalize better, I think, because there is a lot of opinions, there are a lot of stances on this, and I give respect to them, ⁓ especially the ones that don't cause harm. But I think that the reality of what you just said is powerful, because I remember thinking that while I wanted to know and while I wish that
Parenting Different: Yeah. Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: I could know who these people were and how I wanted them to be in my life. And I wanted to be in their lives. And I'm like, why? Why did this happen? Where are they? Are they alive? All these questions as a kid, when I'm faced with the reality and actually see and meet and connect with all of that, it does something because it grounds you, or at least it grounded me in
Parenting Different: Right.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Okay, well now we have to live in equality. Now we have to actually, know, what was, what could have been, now it's here. And what do we know now? The life that I've lived? Yes, I've loved living it. You know, the friends, the people that I've been connected to, the things that I've been able to do. Yes. Would it have been good to integrate the loss and the grief and the complexity? Yes.
Parenting Different: 100 % for me.
Dr. Adam Anthony: But I don't even fully know how that would have actually been possible. But I do think with what you just said, that would have been good to have because it makes you think. It just makes you honor and respect, like you said, the complexity of this and that, you know, that's a reality that many of us have faced. And we just want to shed some light on that, not just because, but because that's what we've had to do.
Parenting Different: down.
Dr. Adam Anthony: And if you can hear and learn from us, that helps you see us and understand us better.
Parenting Different: Right. And it helps you see your children better too. As you, you know, for adoptive parents, if you're listening to all these voices and really taking it to heart, that's going to help you see like, again, there wasn't a name for a ghost kingdom when I was growing up. That wasn't a phrase that was coined. But I know one of, and you kind of touched on this, one of my biggest fears was that by the time I found my birth mom, she would be dead.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yes.
Parenting Different: Like that was such a big fear of mine. And so I think that's part, all of these things play into who we are, and I think is such it's a tough concept for adoptive parents to understand, but an adoptive parent will never be enough for us. They can be the best adoptive parent in the world and it's not enough. And that's okay. that's okay to not be enough. Instead of allowing that to intimidate, embrace that, that you will not be enough. And so really open and listen to other voices so that you can empower your kids to be better and healthier and emotionally stable and not have to live in the unknown like we did.
Dr. Adam Anthony: And you know, something that someone said to me, ⁓ a fellow adopted mom, she told me that, you know, ⁓ she had the opportunity to introduce her son to ⁓ an adoptive friend of hers. That's an adult, you know. But that friend came over and she told her son, like, hey, I'm adopted too. And her son, this little kid, looks at that adopted and is like, what? Really? And you could just see them light up in what that actually meant to actually see somebody else who is like them. And so I think that sometimes maybe ⁓ there needs to be more effort put into that.
Parenting Different: Mmm. Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Not where it's like, okay, hey, I need to have someone who's adopted. could just pair up with my kids. My kid feels like, okay, hey, you and you, you're adopted, connect. But you can introduce over time, ease into that kind of mirroring potentially, after metting that kind of relationship with that person to see, okay, I think this person might be a good mentor or role model.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: for them to help them navigate what it's like being adopted ⁓ as they just grow up. And it doesn't necessarily have to be similar color, but I just think having that can also allow them to be okay with the different aspects of their identity and their life. Yeah.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, just having other people like you in any capacity, I think is so helpful. I think the first adopted people that I really met, I'm sure I met others along the way and I just didn't know it, but the first people that adopted people that I met were my kids. And that's crazy. Like I had heard of others like, they're adopted, ⁓ that, know, and like you hear about it, but like actually knowing other adoptees were my kids.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah. Wow.
Parenting Different: that shouldn't have been the case. Like that absolutely should not have been the case. I should have had other people. But again it goes back to the time period of it just wasn't talked about and it wasn't discussed. So yeah I probably was around adaptive people all the time and just never knew it.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah. No, no, no. Right. And also I think, you know, if you were like me, ⁓ how, even if you were around them, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that you would have the kind of conversations that you would want to have because some people have, you know, adopted children at least back then, but I think, you know, had differing experiences and different ways of, you know, navigating that than me that I internalized.
Parenting Different: True.
Dr. Adam Anthony: because I remember thinking, well, I'm different in how I think and feel about this for just at least what I'm interested in. So I don't necessarily feel comfortable talking to you about this because I know that you have a potentially harmful viewpoint than I do about this. I don't want that to mix. I don't want to get discouraged from what I'm.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: trying to pursue because it's important to me. It's my livelihood. It's my origin, story, it's all of that. So respectfully, I'm just gonna keep that to myself because I think that's something that you have to discern. We have to discern what we can share, what we're able to connect with, but also be aware that there's always opportunities and ways for connection. But how you facilitate that,
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Dr. Adam Anthony: is really, really important and ⁓ you have to treat that with care. You have to.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I feel like we could talk about a million other things, because as you're talking, I keep thinking of more questions. We can probably talk for hours. But I really appreciate you being joining me in this conversation. This has been so fantastic. Definitely ⁓ check
Dr. Adam Anthony: We could. Thank you. Thank you.
Parenting Different: him out. on Instagram you are,
Dr. Adam Anthony: Yeah, it's @Empowermentby_dradam
Parenting Different: Okay, perfect. I really appreciate that. ⁓ I'll tag it in the notes here too, so they can go find you and see your work. And maybe if they have ⁓ a adopted boy that could use mentorship, would be the right for them. So thank you so much again for joining me today.
Dr. Adam Anthony: Of thank you.
