Finding Identity, Belonging, and Healing as a Transracial Adoptee with Michael Gaither

Parenting Different: Welcome to the Parenting Different podcast. My name is Anna Bernacki we have a fellow adoptee here with us today, Michael Gaither. I'm so excited to have you with us.
Michael Gaither: it. Thank you very much. Happy ⁓ to be here
Parenting Different: have a really interesting story. I think you are just a fantastic person. You're coming into this space and really wanting to give back to the adoption community through your learned experience. So introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about who you are ⁓ and what you're doing today the adoption space.
Michael Gaither: Yeah, thank you. appreciate it. Again, my name is Michael Gaither and ⁓ yeah, I am a former educator. So I spent 30 years in the education arena as a teacher, ⁓ former principal and executive coach. ⁓ And I retired from that less than a year ago. And I started thinking about, you know, what I wanted to do moving forward, quickly learned that just sitting around wasn't going to get it done. I still have something that I feel like I be giving to somebody out there in this space. And so for me, it just kind of came a couple of months in after the retirement that, you know, I think it's time to really tell my story as a transracial adoptee. And this is something that I had never done before. You know, I have, I'm 54 years old, so for 54 years I have kept a lot of things just to myself, even though at 49 years old I was...
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: Reunited with my biological family. So that was actually the first time that I really feel like I became Michael Gaither for the first time really understanding who I am So I know we'll probably get into that later But but you know, that's why I do so I would consider myself an educator always Always about serving people everything that I've done in my life. It really isn't been about serving others And so, know here I am Reinvented myself and who I am and really just enjoying all the contacts that I've made so far in this adoption space. And I'm looking forward to continuing to learn from others who have been there, such as yourself, really on both sides of the coin. I know as we were talking earlier, you being an adoptee, but also being an adoptive mom as well.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm so excited that you did decide to jump back into the space because I think you do have something so unique. mean, we're hearing more and more transracial adoption stories come and they're talking about the struggles and some of that identity stuff that happens with them. But I think so many are either open adoptions, they're younger when they're meeting in their biological family. And so you have a really unique story of being that other in a family for a lifetime before really meeting your biological family. So tell us about like go back to the beginning. Tell us about your family growing up. And I know you told me some very, very funny and heartwarming stories of your childhood. I would love to hear you know that those beginning years and what they were like for you as a transracial adoptee.
Michael Gaither: Yes. Yeah, sure. So I was ⁓ adopted out of Syracuse, New York when I was 18 months old and ⁓ my adoptive parents were living in Lincoln, Nebraska at the time. So from Syracuse, New York to Lincoln, Nebraska ⁓ being ⁓ black ⁓ child in a white family in 1972 in all white Lincoln, Nebraska, should probably kind of tell you a little bit how it started for me. So when I say white spaces, I'm talking about white spaces. ⁓ But as far back as I can remember to being adopted, mean, the first, I mean, I was 18 months. So the first early years, maybe I don't remember, but I do remember some stories prior to...
Parenting Different: lot.
Michael Gaither: ⁓ kindergarten, right? So I kind of kind of remember the house we were living in at that time. But I did know when I was from kindergarten up through elementary school, I was very aware of how uncomfortable I was in this adopting. adoptive family. ⁓ And I didn't I know it, of course, I know a whole lot more now sitting here at 54 than I did when I was six. ⁓ But at six years old, what I realized is I couldn't define what I was going through. I can now do that just because I have lived experience of being the adoptee in a white family for that long. But some of the problems that I had as a younger, you know, child, I mean, I had a temper. I was always getting in trouble at school for something and was usually in
Parenting Different: sugar.
Michael Gaither: response to somebody teasing me. I talked with you a little bit about I, you know, my, didn't want to tell my story. I didn't want people to necessarily know that I was living with white people, right? And I'm just one of those people that keeps it real. in my talking today, I just keep it real. I'm not using clinical language here. I'm not doing any of that. I'm just giving you, this is, this is just how I talk.
Parenting Different: Yeah, no I...
Michael Gaither: Right? ⁓ was trying to make sure that ⁓ ⁓ did not know where I live, who I going home to, because I felt like I was going to have to explain my story. And I didn't really know how to explain my story. I don't know. My life just started and it started with white people. Right? Like I don't have anything else that I can really tell you when I'm six Right? I'm six So I don't have the whole background on how I got here.
Parenting Different: Yes. Mm-hmm. I hate.
Michael Gaither: And that's part of the reason why adoption, right? I mean, it can be tricky to explain because it's not saying we didn't ask for it. We started here. That's the, that's, we were dealing with a hand we were dealt, so to speak. And so, so, so, so here we are. And so in elementary school, those were some of the things that I was really struggling with was trying to hide.
Parenting Different: ⁓ yeah.
Michael Gaither: not being able to hide because you have to go to school every day, but I didn't want you to know where I was coming from for fear that I'd have to explain it and I had no words to explain it if that makes sense.
Parenting Different: Yeah. So did your family talk about adoption at all? mean, obviously you're a different race, you know, like, there's an elephant in the room there, right? So was it kind of like, you're adopted end of story? Or did you ever discuss what that meant in your house?
Michael Gaither: See, that's the thing. Not really. When I would get mad, and this may have been upper elementary school into maybe middle school, I would get in trouble about something and I'd start saying, you know what mean, you're not my parents anyway. Right? Because I'm thinking, you know, one, was thinking, you know, I need to like, I have to say something to you because what you're saying is getting on my nerves. So, I kind of knew where to hit home. You know what mean? You're not even my real parents. You know? And so, I remember, I remember saying those things and But no one really ever talked about the adoption. think when I would say, you you're not my real parents, you know, this or that, I mean, was trying to kind of lead them into saying something maybe about my real parents, but I didn't. So it was kind of this push and pull, right? Like I wanted to annoy you, you know I mean? When you annoyed me. I mean, but I'm also trying to pull. Yeah. You know those. Yeah, you know.
Parenting Different: Oh yeah. Oh, I said it too. I know. I think every adoptee has said that. Right, we play on it.
Michael Gaither: We have group meetings about that sometimes, right? And we talk about how we're get them, how we're gonna get them. So, but they didn't really talk about it. Every night, I remember my adoptive mom saying one time, know, she thought my birth mother was young and that's why I was adopted because she was young. It turns out she was 23. I mean, not that young. I mean, you know, she wasn't, right?
Parenting Different: You Right, youngish.
Michael Gaither: But he was, yeah, so she was 23 years old, you know, but they didn't have much. That's the only thing that I can remember them being able to tell me outside of, I came from Syracuse, you know, New York. And so, you know, my adoptive father used to have, you know, he would always have an office and in that office there was this silver box and it had all this important information and it had my birth certificate. I used to go in there and just stare at that birth certificate, hoping that maybe the names on the birth certificate would change because it was my adoptive parents, not my real parents. And that was real to me, right? I just, I used to keep going back there. I knew exactly where that box was and I open it up and I look and then I
Parenting Different: Yeah. No!
Michael Gaither: And then I'm thinking, maybe there's something else in here that will tell me something. And the box wasn't even that big, right? It wasn't a huge silver box, but I was hoping new information would land there because that's where my mom and dad kept the important paperwork. So I go back to that periodically looking like, somewhere in this silver box has to be my story. Nobody's telling me. and somewhere this has to be my story. So, but I never found anything else till later in life.
Parenting Different: Yeah, I think that's so interesting you say that because I had a similar experience and I've heard so many adoptee stories. When we're doing well and we're getting good grades, people think, or we don't discuss it. We're not asking questions. The assumption is, ⁓ well, they're fine with their adoption. They're well adjusted. They're good. And the truth is, we may not be saying it out loud, but there are always questions and we... always want to know our story. Because I mean, there's just DNA. They always talk about nurture over nature, right? And I think in the adoptee community, and I think this is changing as you know, research has progressed and things. But I know growing up, it was expected that while you were a baby when you came to us so clean slate,
Michael Gaither: Yes.
Parenting Different: and nurture versus nature. Like, nurture was going to, you were going to be like your adoptive parents. You were going to act like them, talk like them. And that was just expected. And I think it was shocking for them when I wasn't, I mean, yes, I have mannerisms, of course, sure. Because you grow up with somebody, you're going to do things that are like them. It's just part of growing up with them. But there are also things that are
Michael Gaither: Thank
Parenting Different: deep in my DNA that are not like them at all. And no matter what, they couldn't get it out of me. And it was like that for my brother too. My brother's also adopted and we were ⁓ different, like different biological families. we were, but we both had fire in our veins that they couldn't get out of us. That was, it was just DNA. And so I think that when we see that difference, we feel that deeply.
Michael Gaither: Right. Yeah, yeah.
Parenting Different: And maybe a parent can sit there, and I've seen that with my kids, be like, ⁓ that's their mom. ⁓ that's dad coming through. And we kind of brush it off. But for them, that difference is like boiling over. Where is it coming from and why? And I think it's so important for adopted parents to realize that, that just because they are not asking, just because they are not questioning you, they still want to know. where this is coming from and those differences, whether it's race or just simply a personality trait, they want to know where that came from. They want to be able to assign it to something.
Michael Gaither: ⁓ absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, and I looking back, I think to my experience. mean, you talked about earlier about feeling, you know, your adoptive parents may look at you like everything is okay, right? You're not making waves. I went through this experience, you know, during somewhere in middle school where probably everything seemed like I had settled down and everything was smooth. I mean, I was in seventh grade and I went off on my adoptive mom. She asked me something about chores and I remember coming home. I can't remember if it was the summertime, but whatever it was, I was coming from being a around the city on my bike doing whatever I wanted to do. I'll have a set and I come home. She's going off on me something about my chores. And I remember and I had to have been like 12 or 13. And I remember I just lost it. I mean, I lost it. I tore up the entire house. I tore up the living room. I'm flipping over furniture and breaking tables. I went in the kitchen and I just destroyed everything in the kitchen. All the plates broke them on the floor. Everything I threw out of the refrigerator. And I just lost it. She ran outside. I remember pushing her in the bushes. I remember my neighbor calling and saying, hey, Michael, leave your mom alone. I ran down the street. And next thing you know, the police are picking me up in the neighborhood. I ended up at a mental, I mean, well, I ended up at the hospital. And then the next thing I remember, they were putting a shot in my behind. And I woke up in another city in Omaha, Nebraska with a nurse standing over me. And now I realize I've been dropped off here at this mental health facility with other kids that had various issues, other teenagers, so on and so forth. And now I'm just really angry, right? I'm like, ⁓ this is crazy. I'm here. You left me here. And so I was there for a few months. ⁓ At least I was going to take school at the facility. And I was late long enough to make
Parenting Different: Right.
Michael Gaither: friends you know inside this facility and so I mean that was a rough time I think for me because my temper was just I was just out of control right and I didn't really understand where the anger was coming from at that time I do now but but that's this is a long time coming but back then I did not know and so
Parenting Different: Yeah. Right.
Michael Gaither: It came, so after I was there for a few months and I came out, I went back to school, ⁓ know, all of a sudden there was this period where, you know, I had met my first ⁓ black male teacher. Right. And all of a sudden, you know, life changed for me in that moment. And I didn't know it. Now, mind you, I was still coming off of this mental health experience, right, where I was confused on and so forth. But luckily, here was this black male teacher. It was my teacher. Shout out to Timothy Carroll. ⁓ But but he was such a great ⁓ influence on my life. And I kept going to school every day, pushing through some of the other things that were uncomfortable and looking at him. saying, but this guy, there's something about him. Look, he looks like me, right? You know, he likes sports just like me, right? He understands who I am, you know, that sort of thing. And so, ⁓ you know, so but there came a period where I think I kind of settled down. Out of a sudden, I wanted to get great, good, good grades. I wanted to play on Mr. Carroll's basketball team. I wanted him to know that I was doing well. So, there came a time period in there where I think they felt like everything is going fine. But it wasn't going fine I just learned now how to hide.
Parenting Different: Mm. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: my real feelings and what's going on. And so at that time in the summer times, you know, I mean, I may be 12, 13 years old, but I'm already, you know, with my brother and his friends and we're smoking weed and we're drinking and all these sorts of things. But what I'm doing is trying to find some sort of calm to my life because my world is spinning around and nobody seems to understand what I live through every day. And I need something to calm that down. What I now know that I've struggled with my whole life. is anxiety, right? And and still today, you know, there are times when it's almost unbearable. ⁓ but where does that come from? I realized when I was a kid, I didn't know what it was but I've always had that, right? You know what I mean?
Parenting Different: great.
Michael Gaither: always felt a little uneasy, you know what mean? Just out of nowhere, all of a sudden heart racing and nothing's going on, you know, type of thing, right? And where does that come from? So I think, you know, for me, I wanted to go back to your point about when people think things are okay. You got to ask, you know, deeper questions sometimes, right? And I remember the questions at my parents' table, my adoptive parents' table, you know, is, you know, tell me three things you learned at school today, right? And I'm thinking three things I learned at school today. Well, I was so busy just trying to navigate the school environment and run from the people who are going to be teasing me or making me feel uncomfortable. Learning was never the priority when I was young, right? Learning really, I'm going to be honest, learning really didn't start for me until college.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: Right? Because I was always in those years, elementary, I'm angry in middle school, I'm trying to find myself, but I'm also getting involved in some other things, you know what mean, that weren't good for me, you know what that age in high school, I'm playing basketball and running track at that time. So then I had, I could hide behind. being the athlete, you know what mean? The athleticism, you know what mean? That drew people in because I was, ⁓ yeah, you're good, you know, this and that. So that drew people in where I had this sense of, I can do something well, but it wasn't about validation, right? But then when I wasn't doing those things.
Parenting Different: Right. Right. Yeah, you have that validation and.
Michael Gaither: you know, just walking around school, there's still people that I'm trying to avoid. There's still people that I don't want to talk to. I don't want anything to start up. There's still the white kids, right? And there's still the black kids and anybody who's been a part of transracial adoption. think sometimes this is what parents sometimes can miss, not all do, but some, I think the most powerful visual for somebody is here you are. I'm black, I'm raised in a white family, so I live in a white space every time I go inside my house. Every time.
Parenting Different: Right. You're different every single moment of every day.
Michael Gaither: Everywhere you go, are different, right? And you feel it. When we go out to eat, that's just one of those things where our family, our normal family just says, hey, we're going out to eat. You kind of go, you don't even think about it, everybody's served. Every time we said that, right? Every time we go out to eat and we're standing there and I'm with the rest of my family, I'm the black kid, you feel the stares, right? You feel it.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: And you you feel it when people are kind of, you know, looking across the way, what's going on here? Who's that little black kid? You feel it even at a young age. So you're already in an uncomfortable space. But also when you go and you're in spaces like when I went to high school, there were more black kids there. So when I go to high school now, I'm not that comfortable with you because I've never really been around you in large groups. I may have met, you know, I met my first probably. best friend now. I'm a black friend that I met him in seventh grade and then there was Mr. Carroll that I told you about but I really didn't you know there were a few of us in classes maybe in junior high but not nothing major so I went to high school. Now there's more black kids. I went to the most diverse high school in Lincoln at that time and so but now I still don't feel that comfortable. You know what mean with y'all? Y'all got kind of a different language. Y'all talking about things that I've never really heard that terminology before. and so forth. So
Parenting Different: Bye.
Michael Gaither: I don't want to look stupid in front of them, but I'm also don't want to walk around and just be hanging with the white people either, because you know how we do. Then there's going to be, oh, man, he ain't black. He ain't really black. He ain't a little boy. know, and that's the kids aren't always nice about how they say things. Right. So so so I'm trying to like, you know, you're trying to avoid any issues coming up. And so you spend your entire school day
Parenting Different: Right. No.
Michael Gaither: trying to figure out how to survive. So when you asked me about what did I learn, what I learned to do was to survive today. I made it back to home base and that home base was somewhat uncomfortable because now I'm here. I want to tell you what I'm going through about trying to survive the day. But because you don't talk about race, we don't talk about these things. I don't have any models in my house or anybody that I was hanging out with that I can point to to say, ⁓ yeah, I get it now. And we're never talking about it. So now when I'm coming home, instead of coming home and wanting to say something, I retreated to my room. Right? You shut the door. You turn on the music. You're alone with your thoughts. Right? And so to this day at 54 years old, I'm more than comfortable. being by myself, being alone, right? You know, that's still the most peaceful place for me is when probably, you know, I am, I'm sitting here and I'm not talking about my family, my rec family, anything like that. We're all fine and good, but I don't have an issue with. sitting in my garage, for example, you know what mean? For hours on end if I want to because it's just peaceful. I'm not bored. I'm not anything. So, and I learned that from when I go back in time. I was always doing that as a kid because I was getting away from the noise that just seemed to always be around me. If that makes sense. ⁓
Parenting Different: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, that does make sense. And I think that it's so. It's one of those things like your parents were actually trying to connect with you at the table, they were just completely missing the mark. And I think that happens so often with adoptees. And then when we say that, then, ⁓ well, they're angry. ⁓ well, we weren't good enough. It's like, no, this is an opportunity for you to learn. Like, I'm not angry about it. My parents didn't know what they didn't know. But. I can educate other parents and say, hey, this is what was happening. Yes, your parents were being intentional and trying to connect with you. They were just asking all the wrong questions and starting the wrong conversations. And that impacted you in such a profound way. And I think that it's so important to remember. And so talk us through what would have been, like I can talk from my perspective, but as a transracial adoptee.
Michael Gaither: Right.
Parenting Different: What would have been the helpful questions at the dinner table? The helpful ways for them to connect with you? Because I think, yes, we have good parents who are trying, they just don't know what to do.
Michael Gaither: Yeah, yeah. And I think one jumps out at me right away. And that is, you know, a lot of times we ask, you know, what are three things, you know, I mean, you liked about school today, right? And we try to go with the positive, you know, many things to keep things positive. So, you know, what do you what do you what did you like about it today? What what what's fun for you today? You know, those sorts of things. I would have liked kind of the reverse, you know, there's anything going on that was bothering you, you know, I mean, today, right? Because, you know, we know
Parenting Different: rate. you. was harder today. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: Yeah, you know, we know in life that there's sometimes, you know, many experiences where we can be uncomfortable, right? Is there anything that's making you uncomfortable? You know what mean? Today. And I'm not saying that you have to ask that every day. What I'm saying is I would have liked to have more of these check-ins to see how I'm doing because to me now, even though that's 1972 on, for me now, it just seems like...
Parenting Different: Sure.
Michael Gaither: But I'm still, for me, I'm still Black, right? And you still know that I'm in all these white spaces, right? And I'm, you know, and there were signs that something's not going right with him, right? Because the teachers are saying he has a temper, he doesn't want to do his work, you know, so on and so forth. So ⁓ something wasn't right, but I just never felt like that the questioning that was provided to me allowed me to speak as openly as I could at whatever age I was at, right? But sometimes it has, things have to be done through questioning. And so, you know, and I say this all the time, listen, my adopted family, I know they love me. You know what mean? My, you know, that was never in question, right? But they didn't know what they didn't know. I'm saying this now. I wish that maybe they could have been in contact with a Michael Gaither or an Anna, you know what mean? Then, right? ⁓ then. So they would have had those resources. Things, of course, have changed over time. There's more resources now. There's people that are talking about transracial adoption. I mean, you can get it in two seconds, right? And you find somebody who's talking about the subject. And you can find transracial adoptees that are willing to speak out and say, hey, this is what it was like. You know, and I didn't learn this by studying books. I learned this by living through this experience. Right. And so now I'm
Parenting Different: Absolutely.
Michael Gaither: passionate about, you know, ⁓ this, I'm passionate about telling my story, I'm passionate about speaking out so that you will have parents of these kids understand that I don't want them to have to wait 49 years, right, before they recognize who they are. And that doesn't mean everyone's gonna have a reunion like I had. That doesn't mean that. It means, you but to feel comfortable.
Parenting Different: Right.
Michael Gaither: in your own skin with who you are, who you've been exposed to, people who look like you, people who talk like you, people who understand your experiences. That's the thing. I don't want them to have to wait that long. And so now it's about, you know, getting out here and interacting with people like myself, like you and others that have lived experience on what this adoption is all about.
Parenting Different: you Yes. And I think it's, like you said, that lived experience, because even the researchers, I am so thankful that there are researchers, that there are people doing the research and that they are getting this information. However, there is nothing that compares to that lived experience. And I think that is so important to really like be able to have stories like yours and be able to talk through like this is what would have been beneficial to me.
Michael Gaither: Right.
Parenting Different: This is what didn't work. And obviously every single kid is unique and every story is unique. But something you said too, this was when you were talking about high school and I was listening to, ⁓ it was Isaac Eder. He has a documentary. And one of the things he said was because he was ⁓ raised in a white family, he didn't feel like he was black enough to be with the black kid.
Michael Gaither: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓
Parenting Different: And I asked my oldest daughter about that. I was like, I have a question for you. Do you feel like having white parents makes you less black? I mean, without a beat, she was like, yeah, it absolutely does. 100%. And I was like, oh man. Like I'm sitting here trying to do everything right. And even then it's not, it's not ever going to fulfill all of those needs. it just, there are pieces of transracial adoption that are hard, but acknowledging it, talking about it and saying, I'm sorry, I wish, I wish it was different. I wish society was different. I think that almost gave it, was like a weight off of her shoulders. Just having me ask that question. I can't fix it. I can't do anything about that.
Michael Gaither: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.
Parenting Different: but we can openly talk about it. And I think that's something too that parents are so afraid to not bring something up if it's something that you can't fix. Just acknowledging it is so important and being able to say, hey, I'm really sorry. Like, I know that that sucks that when you go to school, you feel obviously you're not white and you feel less black than the other kids. That sucks. And just, you know, have those open conversations. You don't have to fix everything.
Michael Gaither: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.
Parenting Different: to be able to talk about it.
Michael Gaither: Right? Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, just think about that question, right? You know, do you feel less black by having white parents? It's just a question, right? All that is is a question. what you're, what you're, what, you didn't know what the answer was gonna be. That's what you just did right there, is take a risk, right? And that's gonna be one of my messages to parents is,
Parenting Different: Yeah. No.
Michael Gaither: Be willing to take the risk. You don't know what your kid is going to say back, whether you're adopted or not. You never know. I'm telling you, I learned that from being a middle school principal. Be careful with the questions you ask, because they just might answer with truth. And you might be shocked what some of those middle school kids will tell you if you ask the questions. It's the same thing by going home with your kid as a parent. At the end of the day, ask questions.
Parenting Different: Right. Yeah. Yes.
Michael Gaither: what does it hurt you to try to ⁓ learn what your kid is going through, right? What does that hurt? And, you know, oftentimes we talk about, ⁓ you know, kids have to have a certain sense of discipline, right? There's discipline that must be, you know, seen in your home and felt in your home. When discipline is not there, right, you got another problem on your hands, right? You get the ones that you get teachers.
Parenting Different: Yeah
Michael Gaither: You get teachers who sometimes you make the mistake of not going all in on discipline in the beginning of the school year, right? Instead you wanted to be friends with everybody, right? But those are the teachers that struggle, you know, over and over again because you're busy trying to be friends and you forgot about, you know, I mean the fact that you need to be providing that discipline. But if you, you were mentioning asking the questions, right? And, and, and parents, if I could say anything to parents, right? The most important thing you can do is ask questions. You already know they're adopted. You already know that they look different in your family. A lot of times we talk about in the transracial adoption space, we talk about how love, right, isn't enough. And I agree with that, right? Because I didn't have to want for anything, right? I had a roof over my head. My parents were well known in the community for the work they did and the service to others, right? So I'm not talking about that at all. They love me and they provided for me. But I was living in a whole different world when I left the house, right? I mean, you're still living in different world within the house because you're still the Black one there.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Right.
Michael Gaither: Right? If you had a big Thanksgiving dinner and all your family comes, I'm still there might be 25 people here in this house, but I'm only black one. Right. And so, you know, so that's when I when I when I I think about that, I think about there's this whole world outside of the house that you have to remember. And while you're going to work for those eight, nine hours a day, you're sending me off to school and all parents. need to have a good understanding of what their child went through during those eight, nine hours they were away from. And in this space that we're talking about, ⁓ man, I just wanted you to ask. I wanted to have more conversations about my discomfort, what made me uncomfortable on a daily. But I gotta say, I'm not blaming my adoptive parents because I got really good.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yeah. RAIN!
Michael Gaither: at hiding everything, right? I got really good. And the reason why I and why did I hide it, right? I hid it because one, there's this, I don't want to make my adoptive parents feel uncomfortable, right? So we sometimes try to be the protectors of their feelings, right? Right?
Parenting Different: Still we have. Absolutely. Adoptees carry such a tremendous weight to protect ⁓ our adoptive parents' feelings. And if it's an open adoption, we're protecting our biological parents' feelings as well. It's a tremendous weight that's put on adoptees. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, so I didn't want to go there necessarily. Two, if you ever bring up something and that you feel like it's dismissed. Right? You bring up something where you took a risk as the adoptee and you brought it home to your parents and they say, hey, listen, this is what happened to me. Right? And I took that risk and then it was kind of like, ⁓ they were probably just joking around. ⁓ they were just, you know, people do that. And so it seems like you dismissed how I really am feeling about this situation that made me uncomfortable. I remember that. And the next time I have something to bring.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yes.
Michael Gaither: I learned that, know what, I probably just need to shut it down because they're not going to understand, right? We've been here before, so I'm just going to keep it to myself. And so I got, I practiced that over and over again and I got really good at it. And so now you think everything's okay. Everything's good. He must be fine, right? You know what mean? He's going to school every day. It seems like things are kind of, you know, settling down for him and this and that, but you have to be cautious. Because just because things get silent doesn't mean there's not something raging on the inside.
Parenting Different: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think too, it's so important as a parent, you you made the comment, said, what do you have to lose to ask those questions? And I think as an adoptive parent and as an adoptee, I have a unique perspective because I know what I wish I had been asked and what had been said. I know what I wish. And then being the adoptive parent, I know how it feels to also love a child so much and want them, you want to be their everything. You want to be the only parent that they are going to come to. You want that, you want to be that for them. And so then I end up having this war inside of me of, okay, I know I have to ask the questions
Michael Gaither: Right. You could doing everything ⁓ right. ⁓ When say ⁓ you love your you're being mindful about those topics that affect race, you're asking questions, you understand the situation, you understand that they might be dealing with something that they're not sharing with you.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: Right? Because it may be because it's not because they don't want to, maybe it's because they're trying to protect you. You get all that. when, you know, totally get where you're going with this. And I just think that parents, and this is what got me into this work, was wanting to help.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: parents understand what it feels like from this perspective. I read a lot of stuff, right, on adoption, right? I've been to a lot of groups and talked to a lot of people about adoption, been doing it in education, all those things. But I think there are times when I sit back and I just say, you know what, people just need to keep it 100 % real, right? This is hard. It's hard.
Parenting Different: Yes, it is.
Michael Gaither: be an adoptee, right? And it was hard to have been raised in a white family. There are still things that I live with today that I know. I don't know what my life would have been if I wasn't adopted, right? I only know the adopted life, but I know that there are a lot of things that I went through that were tough that I struggle with, and it was all based on me living in a white family. ⁓ You know, and that's like I said, ⁓ I I think it's about providing resources. in providing, you know, and kids obviously need exposure, right? But I got into this work now to provide resources for, you know, white parents that are adopting black children. That's my passion. ⁓ And that's why I'm on here today. But I just wanted to go on your point about it's not going to be perfect. But what in life really is, right? What are we really perfect at? So I don't know why we're getting our feelings that we're not perfect.
Parenting Different: Absolutely.
Michael Gaither: parents. We're not, right? I mean, I gotta say, I got a 26-year-old. I'm not perfect. ⁓ you know, a great relationship but at the end of the day, I'm not perfect either, right? Make mistakes and we'll continue to make more. ⁓ but just because you're adopted or you because you adopted kids doesn't say, ⁓ well, you know what? You can't you you you you don't get to make mistakes, right? You get to make mistakes. ⁓ but it's about how you talk those things through and I wish I could've
Parenting Different: Right. Right.
Michael Gaither: had the vocabulary and the words to help my parents understand what I was going through. But there are certain things you learn in education about age appropriate behavior. I don't have the words. I don't know what this is. All I know is, yeah, I'm angry. I don't feel well. I don't feel uncomfortable around them. I think of times in high school, even when I was, you know, in basketball, I do the senior nights.
Parenting Different: Right. and kids don't.
Michael Gaither: the senior night. So we're celebrating our seniors. It's the last game this senior will ever play in front of the home crowd. And I can remember even as a senior in high school, everybody knew me by then, probably knew who my parents were, that. But at halftime when they call your parents down to the basketball floor there and I'm standing in the middle, I still feel this sickness about it all. Because everybody now, 2,000 some people, eyes are on me. Here's the black kid with his white pants. And I remember thinking that then, hurry up. Let's get this over with. I just don't want this attention right now because you train yourself and you're trained over time to think that everybody's looking at you, right? Everybody, everybody. Yeah.
Parenting Different: Right. Especially as a teenager. really, teenagers really think that they are the center of it. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: Yeah, what are you looking at? What are you looking at? What are you looking at? Everyone's looking at us. You know mean? Yes, I'm black and they're white. What are you looking at, right? So I carry that with me, right? And so now all of a sudden, the whole gym, it's just been like, and whether this was true or not, you feel like when people called my parents down, I felt like there was this hush that went throughout the gym, right? And I'm just like, see, this is why.
Parenting Different: I'm I don't know. Thank you.
Michael Gaither: This is why. Same thing when I was in first grade and they said that it's grandparents day and my white grandmother was going to have to come up to the school and you wouldn't have to talk about your grandmother and I didn't want her to come. Not because I didn't love my grandmother because I don't want to have to explain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So but no, you know, nothing's going to be perfect. And I would say, yes, this is hard. But at the same time, I also know
Parenting Different: Right. It adds too much. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: that sit in here today, there are certain things that I have benefited from, from going throughout this experience. ⁓ You know, and it doesn't necessarily to do with my parents, but it's that I've been put in a position where I'm very comfortable communicating with anybody.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: right? No matter what you look like and who you are and so on and so forth because I've been forced to communicate my entire life with people that I didn't share that many experiences with. Um and so you get good at that. and so you know and so I think part of me going into education um and looking back on it I probably went into education because I just became very passionate about kids.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: right, and wanting to help kids. And I think provide, you know, I've always remembered probably what I didn't get as a child, because as kids, we have dreams about we can look at another kid and be like, man, you know, I want to be in your family. You look like you got it real good. I'm looking over there. Look at you. want to be in your family, right? Yeah.
Parenting Different: think it's especially as adoptees because in a way we have this mindset that we can like shop for families. I remember doing that too and my kids do it. My kids will be like, I want to be in that family. I'm like, okay, well that's not quite how it works, but yeah.
Michael Gaither: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm saying. So I mean, you kind of remember ⁓ those times. And I don't know. I'm just worried that at the end of the day. I realize how difficult this has been ⁓ for me. ⁓ But the goal now is to ensure that others don't have to walk the same line or go on the same journey I did because we have more resources now. And I think there's people are just more comfortable talking about it, right? I've met people on both sides of the coin. Some people who say, you know what, that it shouldn't be allowed to happen, right? know, white parents shouldn't be allowed to adopt black kids and they're angry about it.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: I don't fall on that side. I believe it is possible because like I said, it's not like I didn't survive the experience. I'm here today, right? You know, I am. But I think you can give back to those that haven't been all the way through it yet to understand, listen, there are people out here that your story resonates with us.
Parenting Different: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Michael Gaither: And I'm passionate about those that are going through it right now. It resonates with me. And if you talk to a lot of adoptees, you will, and you know this, but ⁓ you'll be surprised what they describe as therapy, right? And sometimes the therapy is us talking to each other, us hearing experiences. Yeah, man, I wasn't crazy. You know what mean? Back in the day, we thought I was. I'm hearing other people talk about that, and they've got the issues too. And so it does become therapy in a sense.
Parenting Different: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. It really does. It really does. So fast forward to you ended up meeting your biological family much later in life. This is like a big subject change here. But I want to get to it before we get to the end, because I think this is so fascinating. What was it that made you decide, I need to figure out where I came from? This like enough is enough. I need to figure this out.
Michael Gaither: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, never really left me as a kid. And I just felt like, you know, somebody's out there. At some time, I'm going to meet them. But in New York at the time, adoptions were closed. And so I didn't really have high hopes that I was going to be able to crack the code. Because was like, where would I go with this? And so at some point, ⁓ through research that was done through the I
Parenting Different: Right.
Michael Gaither: family services, Lutheran family services back in Nebraska that was played a role in the adoption. Somewhere along the line, we were able to get some information for them. I felt like I had my my birth mother's name. and then doing some research on her phone number. And so I don't know. I'm probably was in the late 20s, early 30s when that happened and probably about 33, 34 years old. After carrying around that number for a couple of years, I worked up the courage on one night after work to come home and just give her a call. Right. And that's that. And that was when I was probably like 34 years old. So it's probably 20 years ago. And that night when I called her, I was mentally prepared for her reaction, so on and so forth. And I believe that I said something along the lines. She said, hello. I said, hello. And I just kind of went in and said, listen, does February 1, 1972 have anything to do with you? That was my birthday, whatever. And so she got quiet on the phone. And I said, mom, this is Michael. right? And I know that I was adopted, you know what mean? I had Syracuse 19, 18, and she said, well, how did you get this note? And I knew right then, this is you, right? Because you wouldn't be me. How did I get this note? Yeah, you know what mean? So I knew then I did it. So after about another few seconds, she's like, I can't do this. I can't do this. And she hung up the phone. OK? And then that was it. So then I called back. And when I called back,
Parenting Different: Yeah, you just admitted it without admitting it.
Michael Gaither: somebody else answered the phone. I left my number with them and just said, listen, if she ever changes her mind, my number is not gonna change. I still have that same number to this day by the way. So, it never has changed. ⁓ but I didn't push it any farther until ⁓ another probably 15 years. ⁓ and something inside me when I got to be in my late forties and you start doing the math, I said, man, our life's man such as long and then you know, man, she probably in her 70s at this point. I gotta try this again, right? So then I went on to Facebook and II was able to find like a DNA Angel site and I told them my mom's name where she lived and then they did this little search about an hour later. came back said we think we found your brother and so then I was able to you know go on messenger and send him a message and then he confirmed that he found out about me about nine ten years earlier right but that he was my brother okay and so then yeah yeah so one of my brothers on my mom's side did know I guess he spent a lot of time in the early
Parenting Different: So he didn't know until...
Michael Gaither: know, days really trying to find me and what happened to him and so on and so forth. We got to find him. I need to find my brother. And then eventually, you know, he kind of feels it out. He gave up yummy on the surface. I don't remember how old he was, but he was also telling me this story. And so, you know, I after, you know, meeting after understanding that was my brother, he gave me the name of my other brother. We were able to reach out, contact him. But at the same time, I was also doing ancestry DNA. So my industry DNA results came in and then I had, you know, 12,000 matches or whatever. And so you're looking on there and I'm going, here are the close matches. But my maternal grandmother was on there. I had some first cousins on there. So I started messaging everybody and long story short, people started messaging, messaging me back. I was coming off vacation and now I'm talking to my maternal grandmother. I'm talking to first cousins. I'm talking to some great aunts.
Parenting Different: Okay. Bye.
Michael Gaither: and they're inviting me back to a reunion that was gonna happen in about six weeks. And now at this point, my mom's not in the picture yet, but they invited me. So I said, well, I'm coming back to Syracuse, New York, which is where I was born. I'll be there, right? So at that point, I'm like, ⁓ this is great. So now I'm talking to my brothers again and they're telling me, one of my brothers is saying, I don't know if... she's ever going to be ready to talk to you. My mom kind of a private person keeps to herself. So they don't know if she'll. You're to come around and do want to talk to me or not. But over the coming days and weeks, you know, they had one of my brothers had talked to her and said, hey, she's getting curious. She's asking some questions about you, ⁓ you know, and whatever. I said, well, that's good sign. Just I'm not going to like push. I don't want to, you know, put myself in a situation where if she's not comfortable, I'm fine. I'll just talk to whatever family members are willing to talk to me. So that's how I left it. And then all of a sudden, one day in June, I'm sitting out back.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: and of my house and I'm actually working on some DNA stuff trying to figure out the family tree and my phone rings and it's my birth mom. You know, and there it is. Here comes the number. I'm running in the house. I'm like, oh man, this is it. This is it. And I'm hearing her voice and we talked, I don't know, for maybe a couple hours that day. And then from then on, over those six weeks up until that reunion, we talked probably, I was keeping track, probably up to almost another 65, 70 hours of talk time on the phone. the, hey, hey, hey.
Parenting Different: Waaaa
Michael Gaither: I mean, we talked so long that you have one of those cordless phones, and of a the battery runs out. Well, that was five hours of talk time. You know what mean? So we talked and talked and talked. And then when it came time for the reunion, know, there was going to be on a Saturday, there was going to be all these family members in the park. But on that Friday before the actual barbecue, you know, in the park, you know, we met my mom and I, met
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: for the first time and I couldn't believe it. I mean, I was, I called her and said, listen, we're outside of your apartment. She came to the door. ⁓ let us in and I, I, I was, as soon as she opened the door for the first time, it was like looking in a mirror, right? So, I'm forty-nine now but I'm looking at my mom. And I'm like, ⁓ there is just no question. And so what I was always What I always wanted to experience growing up is when I think about my friends and say, y'all just don't understand. When y'all come down the stairs every morning, you know where you came from. You know who you look like, right? And you might be thinking, for granted, you don't have to think about it because you think that's just how things go. No, I've never known who I look like, where I came from, but I believe there's somebody out there. Right? And I know they're living right now. I'm just going to say, I'm thinking that in my mind, it feels like they're living. Right? And I need to know who they are. So this was a big moment then that I could share with my mom just kind of what I had been experiencing, how I've been living, that a fact that I never thought, ⁓ I never blamed her.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: for anything. She made the decision she needed to make at that particular time. So there was never blame on anybody's side. What I just needed to turn to understand is that, you know, hey, one, thank you for making the decision that you did. You see, I'm fine. ⁓ But but I wanted her to know what I would been through that it hadn't been easy, but that she never left my mind because I got a mom out there somewhere. So it was nice to be able to, I think, that with her. And then it kind of went from there. And then I met that that same day, we met my maternal grandmother, we went over to her house, had a blast. I mean, she probably was about 91 or two at the time, right? And then the next day we had the picnic, you know, out there in the park. And I'm just seeing family members, right? That all of a sudden they look like me. And I see in temple,
Parenting Different: Yeah, that's beautiful. Was that overwhelming to you? I feel like that would be so overwhelming to have that all.
Michael Gaither: ⁓ my God. Hey, hey, I will tell you what. I've always been asked my whole life, where did you get your green eyes? Right? How can you be black and have green eyes? Right? And I'm thinking, I don't know. Right? I mean, I do. I do. And so.
Parenting Different: Thank you. Right. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: So people assume that because I have lighter skin and all that, you must be mixed. You know, one of your parents must be white, black. I kept trying to tell people, I don't think so. I don't think that's the way it works, right? You just kind of know speaking of black hair. Right? You know, listen, I got, I got, can't tell you can only see on my beard now, but I got real curly, you know what mean? Hair, you know, it kind of nappy. Like I said, nah, I'm not feeling that. Right. So I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Come to find out it's not the case. My mom was black. My dad was black. But when I go out there and I'm looking, they're asking about the green eyes. I start seeing black people now with green eyes and hazel eyes. So light colored eyes in this park. I'm scanning around the room.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: And, you know, and one of the family members told me, she said, yeah, she's like, she said it runs in the family. So now I have the answer to my question where I got the green eyes. I got it from being in the family with all these other folks that got nice colored eyes. Right. So, know, it's just something that you you learn. And so the being over, I guess, more what I was overwhelmed by was how smooth it was to be welcomed back. Right. And, you know, and just
Parenting Different: down. That's incredible.
Michael Gaither: people are asking me questions and telling stories and talking about, you know, just the past and how they found out about the adoption and just they always wondered where I was and all these days and then be able to tell them the story. Like this is what my life has been like. And it was just like a full circle moment. to this day, I mean, after that, I found out who my dad was. I found out he's no longer living, but I found out who he was. have siblings on my dad side as well. So I've met my dad's side, a lot of people, my dad's side of the family. And my dad was one of, think, maybe 17 siblings. And so when you think about the size of these families, like I have a whole big black family, black world out here that I never knew about. But I've been to other family reunions since.
Parenting Different: Yeah, that's you!
Michael Gaither: right on my dad's side and my mom's side. So it really just has been full circle. I'm here and I talk to my mom on a regular basis, other family members and brothers and sister, you know, as well, that I found out about on my dad's side. So it's just been a lot, but it's been a great experience. And that's how I describe it the most is that.
Parenting Different: That's amazing.
Michael Gaither: through the journey, through all the things, through all the growing up feeling uncomfortable, right? The navigating between Black spaces and White spaces and never really knowing where you fit. It's the always trying to, I think, be fake, you know what I mean? At certain times, right? Because you have to be in order to survive in that space. So there's that piece of it. There's when you start coming into your own. And when I went to college, I could start researching
Parenting Different: I know, yeah.
Michael Gaither: what it meant to be black on my own, right? So it really, was, I had my college courses, but I'm also going in pretty deep, just trying to figure out who I am so that I know what I wanna do moving forward in life. And so there was that piece. And then you get into being an adult and you're successful, right? And you want somebody to know. I used to always remember thinking, I wanted my birth family to know.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: Listen, man, I am somebody though. I became somebody through all of this. And I'm not going to lie. I had this burning desire that they needed to know that I'm okay. Right. And I don't know how many people talk about that other adoptees, but for me, that was huge. I cannot die before my biological family knows that, know what? I'm still here and I'm okay. You always wonder on your birthday, are they thinking about you?
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: right on these special holidays. Right, right. I didn't like my birthday and probably tell you like 40 years old, right? You know what mean? Why it's just how it's like coming with. Yeah, birthdays are hard, right? And I'm thinking to myself, you want to celebrate. I'm not feeling any of this right now, right? Because it just brings up that day because that would have been the day somebody came in there and said, hey, I take you from here.
Parenting Different: ⁓ my goodness, yes. Yep. Yeah. My birthday is so hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: And now you go here, right? And so that's the thing. And I think that that lives within you, that separation, right? You feel it. And it's hard to explain, but you feel it. And I felt it deeply throughout my life. Something's missing. And so to come full circle and now know, I could call my biological mom right now. You know what mean? But to know.
Parenting Different: ⁓ absolutely.
Michael Gaither: I've answered that question. ⁓ You know, we got a great relationship and it's just, you know, like a full circle moment and ⁓ glad to have had that. But now I think what that reunion did was springboard me into this work. I mean, it took a few years after this and all this, but now it's just like. I know that man, the power of this might be the most impactful thing that I ever do in my life.
Parenting Different: Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: And it started when I was 54. And the reason why is because this isn't work. You and I were talking a lot. This is work. This is who we are. This is who we are. Right. And so I'm excited about that. I'm excited about hearing people's stories. I'm excited about jumping on a podcast like this. I'm excited about coaching parents that they want support. You know what mean? As they're raising their black child. I mean, I am. This is been.
Parenting Different: Yes. It's not. Right. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: something that just kind of came out of nowhere one day. And I thought, you know what? I can do this.
Parenting Different: Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: because there's nothing I think I'm more passionate about at this stage in the game ⁓ for me, because it's a different type of education, right? I know what school education is about, right? Been there, done that. But this education is, you you're educating parents, having an opportunity to do that about what it feels like, and not to assume that because that Black child looks okay when they're at home, I'm telling you they're going through stuff. And even if they're,
Parenting Different: It is.
Michael Gaither: may not be going through it this year. It's coming, right? Even though you may not be going through it, maybe you get through, you've just been at a great school and it just happened for you, but somewhere it's coming. It's coming in the community. It's gonna come one day when the police pull you over. Because the one thing, the police don't care whether I grew up in a white family or not, right? You know what I mean? They don't ask those types of questions. know what mean? What they know is I could be...
Parenting Different: this.
Michael Gaither: could be targeted. I could be racially profiled or whatever maybe because of how I look, but they don't care about my upbringing, right? So how do you, so if we know I had this conversation with my black son about, know, listen, if you get stopped, we got to do the two hands on the wheel thing. Here's the conversation. You don't make a sudden movements because I know I wouldn't be being a good dad not to have the conversation for him to be prepared when he was in that situation. And guess what? He got into that situation. Right. And so there you go. And so, you know, my thing is, is for parents just to understand this is something that, ⁓ you know, you've got to make sure that you're exposing your kids, right, to what's out there. and there are dangers out there. And if you're not talking about those things, you know, or if your kid isn't recognizing even for example, that they're black. I mean, if we really talking, some folks in my situation, right. They don't identify, you know what mean, as being Black. They may be younger than me, but they don't identify as being Black because they're in those white spaces all day long. They're going to white schools. They're going to white churches. You go home to white family. You don't have to be in those spaces now. But somewhere along the line, right, you're going to be communicating and probably talking with, you know, me, people of color, you know what I mean, other Black people, this and that, and what happens. When we start talking, people start saying, where are from? You know what mean? you don't, because we say when you don't sound black, right? Well, I understand that. ⁓ And I think there is some, you know, when people talk, like I get what they mean when they say that, right? ⁓ But I, ⁓ but I also am careful because when you say that, you can be saying something like, well,
Parenting Different: Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: you don't sound educated, right? And that there's a way to talk, right? Because you're using correct vocabulary or you're doing this. you're Exactly, exactly. But it's just something, if we were having this conversation, right, these would be conversations you could also have with your kid, right? You and I are having this.
Parenting Different: Right, there's other implications to that too. Yeah. Right.
Michael Gaither: But again, if I know that you're going to this school and you're one of a few black kids in that school, like talk to me about the conversations, right? And where does your kid interact with people that look like them? I'm a believer that kids need mirrors, right? You you gotta be able to look in them. You gotta be able to see somebody, know who you are. You gotta be able to have parents that puts you in front of people who look like you.
Parenting Different: Yes.
Michael Gaither: I never had a black person that I can think of outside of my best friend that ever came to my house, sat in my living room, talking to my parents. I don't remember my parents interacting with black people. If they did, it didn't stick out to me, right? So I didn't know how to communicate in a lot of places because why would I? I never talked to y'all. You know what I mean? I mean... I don't know what collard greens taste like unless I have some, right? So, I mean, wow, right? So, yeah, that's another thing I found out from my best friends. started hanging around the black people. The cooking got a little bit back, okay?
Parenting Different: Right? Yes. I was gonna say, my daughter and I are going to do, I don't know when we're gonna do it, but we're gonna do a podcast and basically just roast having white parents and like all the hilarious things. Cause she was 10 before she came to live with us. So she lived in a black home and then came to a white home. And so it like, this could be hilarious. Like we just are gonna talk about all the things like her culture shock coming into a white home and how funny it was.
Michael Gaither: Weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah! Yes.
Parenting Different: the different, like some of those stereotypes. We always talk about the black stereotypes. Let's talk about the white ones and let's make fun of the white ones. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right. ⁓ I would I would tune into that. would. I promise you I would tune in. That would be great. That would be fantastic. Because, know, and that brings up another point, though. Have fun with your kids. Right. I mean, what's I mean, what is this? You listen and adoption is one of those things that I think sometimes
Parenting Different: Exactly! It doesn't have to be all serious!
Michael Gaither: You know, people think that, well, once you're adopted, the good deed is done, right? You've adopted the kid and you're good, right? But when you adopt, you're signing up for a lifetime of DNA cameras to that kid, right? A lifetime. So now we got to understand that, you know what mean? Even for Black kids, right? I don't know how this is different, but once you figure out how to do their hair, right?
Parenting Different: Right, that's what the word is.
Michael Gaither: And there are hair differences, right? You can't do everything to your hair that you can do to your kids' right? So sometimes people think once they figure that out, now we're good, because the hair is what people see, right? But now it's not. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's true. That's true. That's true. But even with it, yeah.
Parenting Different: Right, exactly. Right, but even then have you really figured it out or are you just managing? Because there's a difference there. Because I've learned to manage, I haven't figured out how to like, succeed.
Michael Gaither: So even if you've managed, if you've done a good job managing that hair, right? There's a lot more that you're going to experience as that child grows and as that child matures. But you gotta keep talking and you gotta also be willing to be uncomfortable in your world for the sake of them, right? Because they're uncomfortable maybe every day.
Parenting Different: Yes! Yes. Yes, 100%. 100%, yes.
Michael Gaither: But if you're not asking questions, you're not communicating with them and asking the real questions, they find out whether they truly are okay or to make it, make your household a comfortable place where they know, hey, we talk about these things here. Come on, come on, come on to the table and give them, you know, you know, sometimes when you're talking, if they don't feel like talking right then, let it breathe. Come back to it later.
Parenting Different: Right.
Michael Gaither: Right? Because don't force it, because in the immediate moment when you ask me the question, I may not feel like talking of it, because I'm thinking, I just got through it. I survived. I made it back to home base. Now you want to talk about it right now, because you see something on my face or you're feeling something. Well, if I don't feel like saying anything then, let me not say anything then, and then come back to it.
Parenting Different: Right.
Michael Gaither: Right? You know me because sometimes just like anything, you need to let things breathe for a moment. It's not everything is an instant as we think it is today. Right? Because now, you know, we can get on this podcast instantly. You know what mean? You can send out messages to the world instantly. But I think, you know, sometimes we need to let things breathe. And I think that that would be one of the things that parents that have.
Parenting Different: Yeah.
Michael Gaither: you know, that have adopted kids and kids are in some of these uncomfortable situations. It's not about, you know, interrogating them. I don't mean to say that, but every now and again, those check-ins, if you asked me one thing, I would have wanted way more check-ins on this experience and how I'm feeling in the environments that I had no choice to be in. Right?
Parenting Different: Yeah. Yeah. And I always say, I think the best place to do this, and this is what I've discovered as a parent, is instead of serious sit down conversations, you know, when you go sit in the living room and you're face to face, it's serious and it's intense and it's intimidating. Riding in the car, going somewhere, you're not face to face, you're sitting next to each other, you can be looking at other things.
Michael Gaither: Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Parenting Different: And that is when I have discovered to ask or bring up some of those deeper things. Because it lowers the pressure. And I know somebody else talked about slouching. She parents from a slouch. And she was like, I literally will slouch and throw my hands on my knees and kind of almost slouch like a teenager. And it just lowers the pressure because when you're, okay, we need to talk, that's very intimidating and they're going to shut up.
Michael Gaither: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Parenting Different: changing your posture or location can really open up the door to having more honest and open conversations when topics are hard like that.
Michael Gaither: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up about the car ride because I told you my son's a teacher and just last week I was visiting him out in Kansas and I was speaking at a father-son banquet and my mate and as I was talking about being his father because this was for
Parenting Different: Yeah. ⁓ wow.
Michael Gaither: fifth grade students, the band quotes were fifth grade students at his school. So he was there as a teacher, not my son. But again, I was asked to speak in a band, give some words of encouragement, whatever. But I was talking about how when he was growing up, we never wasted a car ride, right? Because in the car, that's where deep conversations happen. You some people get there and I told the dads that were there, I said, you know, turn down the radio.
Parenting Different: Hmm. It is.
Michael Gaither: Right? Sometimes we're just listening to the music, but there are opportunities right there when your kid is right there, that you can find out things in that car and you're absolutely right. It's not a face to face sit down. Hey, we need to talk, come into a living room. You're thinking, what are we in here for? We never sit in here. Right. So, yeah. Right. Right. Right. So, so when you can put them in situations where they feel comfortable, right. And then to let it, let things, you know, let them drive.
Parenting Different: Right, you think you're in trouble and the fence goes up immediately. Yeah.
Michael Gaither: the conversation sometimes because somehow you might have the question, but then sometimes I think, you know, we also need to be able to stop and listen deeply to their response. Right. And if you don't know an answer to one of those questions, don't make it up. Right. But make sure that they feel like that's worthy of a discussion. Right. But maybe you've got to do some more research. Maybe, you know, I you got to get back to them. Maybe you got whatever you have to do.
Parenting Different: you Yeah. Yes.
Michael Gaither: It's worthy of a discussion, but you don't want the child to think, you know, hey, you didn't care about that, right? Or you were making excuses about whatever it might be.
Parenting Different: Great. Right, because I think, and just like you were digging through a box of papers when you were younger, adoptees are sleuths when it comes to information. We're going to find out. We are going to find the answer. And so you need to tell the truth. And if you don't know, then say you don't know. Don't try and be a hero or protect the story. I can handle hard.
Michael Gaither: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
Parenting Different: if it's the truth. Don't sugarcoat it to make me feel better in the moment because then later I'm going to find out the truth. And so, and that's across the board, all adoptees are information sleuth. They will find out. Don't think you can pull it over on them. Age appropriate honesty. Answer honestly. And even if that is an I don't know, that sucks. I'm sorry that I don't know that.
Michael Gaither: Right. Yeah. Right. Right, right. Yeah. Yes. Yes, yes. Right. Right.
Parenting Different: That's better than making something up or sugarcoating to protect them from the real truth. Because they'll find out. Yes. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and hearing about your story and you're just a wealth of wisdom. Where can people find you? I'll put your website in our show notes too, but tell us where we need you for listening. Where?
Michael Gaither: Absolutely, 100 % agree. 100 % agree. Thank Yeah
Parenting Different: Can they find you?
Michael Gaither: Yeah, so a couple of places. ⁓ beyondthemomentadoptionstudio.com is my website. I also have plenty of resources that are on payhip.com. Backslash payhip.com, P-A-Y dot H-I-I-I mean, I'm sorry, P-A-Y-H-I-P dot com, payhip.com.
Parenting Different: Okay?
Michael Gaither: Backslash Beyond the Moment ⁓ Adoption Studio. So there's plenty of resources on there as well. ⁓ And so, but one of the things that is a free resource is a free guide. It's called Severing Conversations Every White Parent Must Have with Their Black Child. That's a free guide that can be found by going to my website on beyondthemomentadoptionstudio.com and just sign up for the free guide and that'll lead you to some deeper work along the way as well. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me very much. It's been a pleasure and I look forward to continue to work here with you down the line.
Parenting Different: Okay. Fantastic. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being here. Yes, for sure.