Solving the real problem: Lessons from Kurt Kandler

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We're on.
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Welcome to the Charlie Papa Show.
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Today's topic is seeing and fixing a well-intentioned, but broken system, an entrepreneur story.
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This show's focused on helping entrepreneurs build valuable businesses to this, and I interview entrepreneurs who stand apart both in the for-profit world and the non-profit world.
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Today's guest is Kurt Kaler.
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Kurt is the founder and executive director of Four 10 Bridge for the last 16 years he's been there.
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Kurt started four 10 Bridge shortly after taking him and his family on a mission trip to Uganda.
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I believe it was as far back as 2006.
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He learned something on this trip with his family to Uganda's Bush country.
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There are huge economic problems in these countries, and the do-gooders and other non-government organizations as we'll refer to them as NGOs are mostly not helping like they should.
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There has to be a solution here.
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Upon returning from this trip to Uganda, Kurt could not stop thinking of a better way for these people to leave poverty.
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Kurt is married to Erica for 33 years.
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They have four.
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They, are members of North Point Community Church.
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They are which is a church in Alpharetta, Georgia.
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They have four grown children and they have two grandchildren.
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Welcome, Kurt.
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I'm glad that you're joining me and you're here to help other entrepreneurs around the world.
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Thanks for being here.
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Thanks, Charlie.
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It's it's my pleasure to be here.
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Thanks for inviting.
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One, why don't we start here Is people don't know four 10 Bridge, so maybe you can just do a short overview of four 10
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Bridge.
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Yeah, sure.
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I appreciate that intro too.
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It's interesting to hear that from you.
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Why was I off a little bit?
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Oh, you were dead on.
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It was, I was I was, you was, it was perfect.
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Hey, so four 10 Bridge gets its name from one Peter four 10.
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That's the four 10 part.
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First Peter four 10 says that we should all use the gifts that we've received to serve others faithfully, administering God's grace in its various forms.
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We love that.
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That's our namesake scripture.
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And of course the bridge is this bridge between us and, communities in need around the world.
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And essentially we are a community development ministry.
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We adopt entire communities in the developing world currently in four countries, Kenya Uganda, Haiti, and Guatemala, and we walk with those communities over a very long period of time.
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We'd like to say that we're a mile deep and an inch wide.
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We walk with those communities for a long time with the indigenous leaders that live in that community.
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They lead the effort.
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And we're working these communities to a point where they ultimately graduate.
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They graduate from the four 10 Bridge partnership.
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And what that means is, that they've come to a place where they can continue their journey of development without us, and they're actually doing more in their C communities.
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Have you done, how many of those
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do you have?
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We'll graduate our 13th community this year.
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Wow,
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okay.
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I didn't know that.
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So I thought you were like the other NGOs.
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You're in it and you're there forever.
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Okay.
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This is good to hear that you're actually doing graduation.
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So when did, and I think this is gonna come out in, our discussion and I'm looking forward to it.
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So when did you start four 10 Bridge?
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Bring back to the, beginnings there.
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Yeah.
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September, 2006, we had my family and I the story there it's, in the book, but the story there is, that a friend of ours, a family that wa their children, went to the same school, small little Christian school here in Atlanta that we, actually started one of the first 12 families to start that did a little shoebox thing for a community a ministry in Uganda.
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They went and delivered these boxes of school supplies and toys and things from the kids in our school.
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They came back, found them in our living room, having a dessert and coffee, looking at photos of their trip to, in the middle, middle of nowhere, Uganda.
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And this was a time in my life that what I kinda refer to as our dark time, this was a very difficult time in our lives.
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We'll probably talk about that.
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But anyway he my buddy Dave showed a photo of this school.
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that was made outta mud and sticks and cow dung, and every time it rained, the walls would crumble.
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They'd have to repack the walls, dirt floor, no desk, kids sitting on rocks, no teachers, no supplies, all of that.
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And I was just puzzled by that last thing on my mind was that at that time.
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But I was really, why were you puzzled by it?
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Why not just build a brick building?
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I'm pretty easy.
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I can build things.
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Why don't you, why aren't, why not just go get some bricks and build a brick building?
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That's the classic kind of American perspective, right?
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I saw that as a problem to be solved.
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Just go solve that problem.
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And wait a second.
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Were you the only one that actually saw this?
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Or were there other parents that actually were exposed
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to this?
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There were some other some of their guests in our home that were celebrating their trip and they were just sharing their trip with us.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And yeah.
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So
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why, were you like this is stupid, we should fix this.
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Why wasn't there?
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Why wasn't the other six dads that were there, or the six moms, they're going like, oh man, I'm all in.
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This is what we need to do.
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We get
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a fix.
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Yeah.
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I think they were telling, talking about their whole trip, their whole experience, yeah.
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Cross.
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And I was what captured my heart was that school building.
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It just seemed, it seemed silly to me.
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Again, I can build things.
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I'm handy.
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It's just why don't we just go fix that problem?
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And so anyway I, left that little dessert and coffee and next morning I'm in my office and in my quiet time, and again, this was a very difficult time in our lives.
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It's what we call our dark times and our family.
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And that's the time when you're leaning heavily into God.
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What was that, when you say, you said it was dark times.
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What made'em dark
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times?
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Oh, my business had failed.
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I was out of work.
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I was working outta my basement trying to figure out how to make ends meet.
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Nothing was going well.
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It was my wilderness walk.
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How did your bi what, happened with your let's, roll back just a little bit.
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Okay.
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And what business were you
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in?
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So I had a direct marketing agency in Atlanta, Uhhuh here.
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At our peak, we had probably 45 or so employees.
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Did you start
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that too?
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I did.
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How long ago was that?
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What year was that?
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That you started that?
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I'm sorry, what year did you start that right outta college or?
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My kid my youngest son was 18 months old.
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So my, I like 93.
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And so we were 10 years into that, nine years into that.
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And nine 11 happened.
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Lot of our Was that right outta college that you started that?
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Oh gosh, thank you.
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Oh my.
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If I could give you a hug, I would.
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No I was in my early thirties at that point.
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But yeah, I just look younger than I guess, than I am.
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But no I was, are you from.
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Originally born and raised in Wisconsin, but Atlanta's been home for 40 plus years, since early Oh, so
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as you were an adult?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So you began your adulthood here, but your, all your childhood was back then?
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Yeah.
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Was your dad and was your dad a
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professional or he was in the insurance business for a while.
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He was a sales rep for a while.
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We lived in Wisconsin in my younger days, and then we moved to Florida and then they, landed in here in Atlanta when I was in college.
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I went to U S F university of South Florida for a couple years.
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And then my entire family was here in Atlanta, so I moved back to Atlanta and finished school here.
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And just was there
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a reason that you didn't finish in us F I'm just
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curious.
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I just wanted to move back to family.
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So I just moved from USF to Georgia State, finished to Georgia State, got a business degree and I've been a aware You were Christian
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back then too.
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Was that something that was indigenous to your family?
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That I think so.
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I think, but I would say that we were nominally Christian.
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Oh, okay.
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School, my younger days, my, as a kid, I went to a small little Christian school in Wisconsin through grade school.
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And then so I knew all the Bible stories.
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I was in chapel every week, that type of thing.
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But I don't think that and while I believe I was a, believer really that walk was with Erica in our early years of our marriage.
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It's not until that those dark times hit
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Sounds like with your parents, given the activities that you were involved in to, to say it was nominal, I think a lot of people would say you were devoted.
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As a family.
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So there was a pretty strong foundation that was put in place for you?
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There was, yeah.
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There was, but it wasn't strong enough for me not to leave my faith until my late twenties, early thirties.
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And the way that I say it is during those dark times I realized that my way was not working.
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And I literally got outta bed at two o'clock in the morning, one, one night having this anxiety attack outta work.
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No money going into debt like crazy.
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It, I know how old was, how old were you then?
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Times than we had.
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But this was a really difficult time.
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And I realized that there was a difference between declaring Jesus Lord and allowing him to Lord over my life.
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And I think when I crossed that chasm of allowing him to Lord over my life, that's when I really said, my testimony is I'm gonna do the next right thing in times of confusion, chaos, whatever.
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I'm gonna do the next right thing and trust him with the results.
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And when I turned, when did that happen?
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How old were you then?
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40, I dunno.
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Huh what was 42?
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Maybe?
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I don't know.
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Something like that.
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42?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I think it was
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And that would've been, what year was that?
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42.
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So
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this was this was 2000?
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No, so it was probably my ear.
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Yeah.
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Early forties.
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43, 44, something like that.
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So it's 2005, 2004.
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Oh, okay.
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Three, I'm trying to,
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years ago.
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But by then you, do have the, you are married, you do have kids.
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And you have a business that you say is failing and you just got to the.
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In effect end of your rope.
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I know, I'm, that's exact.
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Your story and my story sound a lot alike.
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Alright.
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It's like things seem to be going okay and then they weren't going okay and they didn't look like they were gonna go.
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Okay.
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So you finally suddenly say, I don't, I'm losing hope here.
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What's the deal?
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But I do have my, I come, I'm, I look around and I got a house, kids, cars, wife what's going on?
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What's
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going on?
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And what, was going on was my way was not working.
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And again, allowing him to de the difference between declaring him Lord and allowing him the Lord over your life is a big, leap.
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And but when, I did that, it
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changed.
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Did somebody make you aware of that?
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Back then?
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Yeah.
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I had a,
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I have a buddy.
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This,
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there's this
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delineation.
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Yeah.
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He said it was, I was at church one Sunday.
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It's tough times.
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Parking cars.
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I'm, volunteering in the church, I'm going, I'm doing my, just doing life.
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And my buddy Kent said that to me and I'm not even sure in what context.
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Okay.
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It, threw me back and thought, huh, am I doing that?
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And I clearly was not.
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I'm trying to control it.
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What did he say to
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you?
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Just to re repeat it one more time?
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There's
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a difference between declaring Jesus Lord and allowing him to Lord over your life, huh?
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Yeah.
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So, it just threw me back in my chair of, so tell me that moment
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when you were, where you, when you were there now, that 2004, 2005, that moment when it was like, okay, I'm stepping over the line.
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Yeah.
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I was I was laying in bed and having this anxiety attack around, I have no idea what to do next.
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I have no idea.
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After everything I've tried and I'm a doer, I'm a type A, I'm a driver.
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I I've been always, been very entrepreneurial.
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There's a problem.
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I'm gonna go fix the problem, heads down, I work hard.
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All of that.
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And nothing was working.
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It was a wilderness walk.
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It's, and when
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you say you had an anxiety attack, and I appreciate you sharing that.
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I think that's something that we skip over.
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That's, that shows the
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depth of it.
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Yeah.
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And so I got outta bed and I literally got on my knees and I said you promised the peace.
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That transcends all understanding.
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I need some of that.
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And I need a lot of that.
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And so you can have it you can have all of it cuz clearly my way is not working.
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And just, give me the next right thing to go do and I'll go do that and I'll trust you with the results.
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Just be clear.
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Please, just be clear.
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Don't to me.
00:13:10.429 --> 00:13:14.865
Just make it clear that this is the next right thing that you want me to go do, and I'll go do that.
00:13:16.274 --> 00:13:17.654
And so be careful what you pray for.
00:13:19.700 --> 00:13:20.264
I love that.
00:13:20.264 --> 00:13:31.184
Just be clear because what, struck me then is it's like, God I believe that clarity of communication is important to me and it was something that I always stand by.
00:13:31.815 --> 00:13:34.575
I want you, since you made me clear, you be clear.
00:13:35.565 --> 00:13:37.514
I need to not make sure it's not a Kurt idea,
00:13:37.965 --> 00:13:38.235
right?
00:13:39.674 --> 00:13:40.695
A cur idea.
00:13:40.934 --> 00:13:42.105
Oh, a Kurt idea.
00:13:42.225 --> 00:13:42.975
Oh, a Kurt idea.
00:13:42.975 --> 00:13:43.335
Okay.
00:13:43.514 --> 00:13:43.695
Yeah.
00:13:43.700 --> 00:13:45.195
I want it to be his idea.
00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:46.455
And I'll, go do that.
00:13:46.634 --> 00:13:49.904
And that serves me, that serves my family, my wife and my marriage.
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:51.720
My career.
00:13:51.809 --> 00:13:52.620
Four 10 Bridge.
00:13:52.620 --> 00:13:53.580
It served us really well.
00:13:54.570 --> 00:13:55.049
There are times
00:13:55.200 --> 00:14:03.840
Did you get to a point though, Kurt, where you said when you were in this D desert walk, like right after that, did some answer come peace
00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:05.460
came almost
00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:06.029
immediately.
00:14:06.450 --> 00:14:07.529
I was the next morning.
00:14:07.649 --> 00:14:08.100
Peace came
00:14:08.105 --> 00:14:08.610
upon you.
00:14:08.615 --> 00:14:08.990
Yeah.
00:14:09.269 --> 00:14:12.419
I woke up the next morning and I'm like, huh, this is weird.
00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:13.320
I don't,
00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.080
but you still don't have a business or the business is still troubled.
00:14:16.085 --> 00:14:17.399
You still have a wife and kids.
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:19.169
You still have all these responsibilities.
00:14:19.409 --> 00:14:23.639
I still have a dumpster fire of debt and okay.
00:14:23.914 --> 00:14:26.850
How to make a living and all, of that still swirling around.
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.070
But there was a confidence, a peace.
00:14:29.250 --> 00:14:34.169
It's, and again, I, it when, he says it transcends all understanding, it transcends my understanding.
00:14:34.169 --> 00:14:35.460
I'm just a guy trying to do, so
00:14:35.460 --> 00:14:35.970
where did it go with it?
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:40.139
This new peaceful, Kurt, where does this new
00:14:40.529 --> 00:14:41.070
peaceful Kurt go?
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.169
I got up went, back to work.
00:14:43.289 --> 00:14:46.559
Did not, much changed on your day-to-day basis, but then okay.
00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:52.649
Shortly after that my buddy Dave and his family came over to tell us about their trip to Uganda.
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.240
That's what it's on.
00:14:54.269 --> 00:14:54.659
Okay?
00:14:54.809 --> 00:14:57.960
So that next morning in my quiet house kinda push.
00:14:57.960 --> 00:14:58.200
That's
00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:01.679
helpful because what we've talked about puts the rest of this in perspective.
00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:03.629
Yeah, I understand.
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:15.179
So in our, my next, that next morning after that dessert and coffee and seeing that, those photos of that school building I was praying and God loves it when Charlie, when we negotiate with him.
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:18.299
never did that before.
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:19.320
Never did that before.
00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:20.490
So tell me how you did it.
00:15:20.490 --> 00:15:20.759
Okay.
00:15:20.764 --> 00:15:21.149
I said,
00:15:21.149 --> 00:15:31.889
listen, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do for you, I'm gonna as soon as I get my, career back on track, start making some money again, get my kids back in private school, get this debt paid off.
00:15:32.019 --> 00:15:38.759
As soon as I write this dumpster fire of a ship that is currently my life, I'm gonna go over there and I'm gonna build those kids a brick building.
00:15:40.110 --> 00:15:46.289
And I, immediately the heavens didn't open in voices and trumpets and note, it was just, it was a clear.
00:15:47.024 --> 00:15:56.684
Undeniable conviction that I had it backward, that I should go serve him and his kingdom first, and the rest of this stuff, he'll walk with me through that.
00:15:56.690 --> 00:15:59.325
Much of it is to my own making, but he'll walk with me through that.
00:15:59.325 --> 00:16:08.174
But I should serve him and his kingdom first, and and the rest will not necessarily take care of itself, but the rest is, secondary.
00:16:09.284 --> 00:16:11.355
And so that was an immediate conviction.
00:16:11.355 --> 00:16:14.894
One of those defining moments that I talk about in my book where, so
00:16:14.894 --> 00:16:15.434
what was this?
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:21.644
Is this where God actually said after you did the negotiation and tried to cut the deal, you heard that, oh, come on.
00:16:23.169 --> 00:16:23.721
Do you know who
00:16:23.725 --> 00:16:24.179
God is?
00:16:24.750 --> 00:16:26.120
I heard you got it Backward,
00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:26.820
pal.
00:16:26.970 --> 00:16:30.360
That's what Oh, he ended it with pal?
00:16:30.450 --> 00:16:30.870
I think so.
00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:34.019
I don't know if that's true, but that's, maybe that's a poetic license.
00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:36.879
But no, you got it backward.
00:16:36.940 --> 00:16:37.919
You got it backward.
00:16:37.950 --> 00:16:41.250
And I knew I had it backward and I was convicted that I had it backward.
00:16:41.254 --> 00:16:43.120
There was no denying that I had it attack.
00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:43.320
Yeah.
00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:44.100
But then it almost lays
00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:45.029
it all back on you.
00:16:45.029 --> 00:16:49.110
It seems like aren't you gonna drag me out of this thing?
00:16:49.769 --> 00:16:57.629
But see, that's the beauty for me, that's the beauty again, just for me of, my walk.
00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:05.400
Where, in, again, in times of confusion, times of chaos, times of conflict, whatever it might be.
00:17:05.549 --> 00:17:06.599
Just do the next right thing.
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:19.890
I had no idea how to go do the next right thing, but what's the next right thing to go if he's laying on my heart that I should go build a brick building in the middle of nowhere, Uganda for these kids, which sounds really weird even when I, say it out loud.
00:17:20.505 --> 00:17:27.434
Just take the next right step, which was I gotta go have a conversation with Erica about this.
00:17:27.605 --> 00:17:28.095
Yeah.
00:17:29.204 --> 00:17:30.765
which is a fascinating conversation.
00:17:30.765 --> 00:17:33.494
She's gonna listen to this and she goes, yeah, I'm gonna remember that conversation.
00:17:33.795 --> 00:17:35.295
Hey honey, I was in my prayer time this morning.
00:17:35.494 --> 00:17:36.105
Tell us about it.
00:17:36.555 --> 00:17:36.795
Yeah.
00:17:38.204 --> 00:17:41.204
It was very difficult time for her.
00:17:41.204 --> 00:17:41.695
What'd you say?
00:17:41.701 --> 00:17:41.924
What?
00:17:41.924 --> 00:17:42.105
Yeah.
00:17:42.105 --> 00:17:44.384
So you're in this difficult time economically, right?
00:17:44.654 --> 00:17:48.585
Like you say, it's a dumpster fire for the family, in effect you and the family.
00:17:49.444 --> 00:17:52.634
What, tell me how you approached her on this.
00:17:52.634 --> 00:17:55.365
Tell me what that convers we've,
00:17:55.365 --> 00:17:56.355
the details of it a bit.
00:17:56.355 --> 00:18:00.855
If you could, we've been talking for a few minutes, and so you can already know that I'm a very direct guy.
00:18:01.664 --> 00:18:03.434
I don't have a lot of words to share.
00:18:03.674 --> 00:18:06.464
I've guys say God's gifted me with a limited vocabulary.
00:18:07.244 --> 00:18:14.295
And I told her what happened and that I feel like I'm supposed to go do that.
00:18:14.295 --> 00:18:17.275
I think I'm supposed to go help those kids.
00:18:18.555 --> 00:18:20.474
Build a brick building for their school.
00:18:22.605 --> 00:18:28.634
And she processed that over a I don't know, hours, days, whatever.
00:18:28.904 --> 00:18:30.464
Cuz it just, it wouldn't go away.
00:18:30.464 --> 00:18:34.424
This isn't a you have this defining moment in your office.
00:18:34.424 --> 00:18:37.934
You run upstairs, grab a cup of coffee and tell your wife, Hey, this is what we're gonna go do.
00:18:37.964 --> 00:18:38.805
No, it wasn't that.
00:18:39.555 --> 00:18:40.575
It was a process.
00:18:41.174 --> 00:18:44.394
And I gotta tell you when you first told her, what was her reaction?
00:18:44.654 --> 00:18:55.605
I'm I'm, married to a woman who at that time was in her own faith, walk her own challenging time, and she has her own testimony and her own story through all of that.
00:18:56.654 --> 00:18:57.615
It's very interesting.
00:18:57.615 --> 00:19:07.365
One of the things that we always talk about let me intro interrupt you, because I see this now with my kids who are now turning 40 and haven't been through this.
00:19:07.724 --> 00:19:11.444
We, we often think of this midlife crisis as only for men.
00:19:12.525 --> 00:19:13.005
Yeah.
00:19:13.454 --> 00:19:19.664
And it's not I think she it's like you said, you're talking about Erica, she was going through the same, a lot of the
00:19:19.664 --> 00:19:20.535
same thing here.
00:19:20.805 --> 00:19:21.015
Yeah.
00:19:21.105 --> 00:19:24.224
I don't know if it was midlife crisis, but it was a crisis of faith.
00:19:24.255 --> 00:19:26.474
It was a not crisis of faith.
00:19:26.505 --> 00:19:30.015
It was a what are you, she's amazing.
00:19:30.765 --> 00:19:32.295
She's what are you teaching me here?
00:19:32.954 --> 00:19:42.555
And she would, in prayer in the word, she listens to a, she just listened to a lot of tapes at the time, videos at the time.
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:44.414
A lot of things were influencing her.
00:19:44.414 --> 00:19:47.924
And she was on her walk trying to figure out, what are you trying to teach me?
00:19:48.825 --> 00:19:57.375
Because we made a commitment very ear early on when we I would say, made this conscious decision to put God first in our marriage.
00:19:58.994 --> 00:20:00.045
It's the old triangle, right?
00:20:00.075 --> 00:20:01.755
The old pyramid God's on top.
00:20:01.755 --> 00:20:03.855
We're over here and we're gonna put hymns in the center.
00:20:04.785 --> 00:20:11.730
And I, would think her testimony was her walk of understanding that I wasn't, Responsible for her happiness.
00:20:11.730 --> 00:20:13.319
She would look to me for those kind of things.
00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:15.029
And we looked to God for that fulfillment.
00:20:15.029 --> 00:20:17.880
We looked for that God to be front and center in our marriage, in our family.
00:20:18.210 --> 00:20:18.220
That's,
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:19.349
how long ago was that?
00:20:20.789 --> 00:20:23.009
How old, how many years were you married at that time?
00:20:23.009 --> 00:20:23.220
Say
00:20:23.910 --> 00:20:25.589
first three or four years.
00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:26.339
Oh, early.
00:20:26.369 --> 00:20:26.730
Okay.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:27.809
Early, on.
00:20:27.869 --> 00:20:28.259
Okay.
00:20:28.829 --> 00:20:37.019
So she so she said when it came to the school I said I don't know, I don't know what I'm supposed to go do, but I'm supposed to go do that.
00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:37.859
I don't know how to go do that.
00:20:37.859 --> 00:20:40.049
She says, start raising a little bit of money.
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:44.190
How much does it cost to build a big really?
00:20:44.444 --> 00:20:44.880
I, don't know.
00:20:45.539 --> 00:20:49.559
And we started just, again, it gets, it's just doing the next right thing.
00:20:50.704 --> 00:20:55.380
Have you had to raise the money also for the airfare and hotels or whatever the heck else?
00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:57.660
You, in other words, your personal expenses to get
00:20:57.660 --> 00:20:58.049
over there?
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:03.509
We did and we had a bunch, we had a front bunch of frequent flyer miles at the time cuz I was coming outta my business.
00:21:03.509 --> 00:21:08.559
So I had a lot of those and, but we had to raise that and we had to raise money for the school and a water well and.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:15.059
Books and for the school we and so God was very faithful through that, but it took a long time to raise it.
00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:19.079
It cl took close to 18 months for us to raise$10,000 just for the school.
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:19.740
No kidding.
00:21:19.890 --> 00:21:20.009
Yeah.
00:21:20.009 --> 00:21:21.660
I should have prayed for more wealthy friends.
00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:23.190
What was your pitch?
00:21:25.170 --> 00:21:27.240
Because you're this direct marketing guy, right?
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:28.500
Yeah.
00:21:30.930 --> 00:21:34.740
Just the truth, just the reality of it.
00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:35.849
I think I'm need to go do this.
00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:37.079
Here's, the need.
00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:39.480
And it was very needs focused.
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:42.720
Here's the need, here's the, what we're trying to accomplish.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.250
I feel like I'm supposed to go do that.
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:44.819
Can you help?
00:21:45.390 --> 00:21:54.059
And did you ask people for a certain amount of money when you did the ask or did you just say anything would work and you wound up with$50 donations?
00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:54.900
I was completely
00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:56.309
out of my depth there.
00:21:56.315 --> 00:21:57.690
I had never done this before.
00:21:57.690 --> 00:21:59.160
I had never asked people for money.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.490
We had little events.
00:22:02.494 --> 00:22:07.150
We, some people had money trickled in when they saw my heart.
00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:09.480
But it took a long time.
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:20.039
And one of the stories that you'll find interesting here is I put it in the book, but it we had a little dinner at our house at the ti so I had to go get a job.
00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:24.599
And let's not forget that I don't feel like I make a very good employee.
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:26.819
That's why I've always wanted to be entrepreneurial in my life.
00:22:27.269 --> 00:22:28.529
So I had to go get a job at this point.
00:22:28.529 --> 00:22:36.269
And one of the ladies that worked for me at the time, her husband was a chef, and she says, Kurt, I'll and she was a believer and she says, Kurt I'll, talk to my husband.
00:22:36.269 --> 00:22:38.759
He'll come and cook your cook a really nice meal.
00:22:38.765 --> 00:22:44.250
You buy this stuff, he'll cook a really nice meal and you can invite people and you can do a little fundraiser in your home.
00:22:44.250 --> 00:22:45.329
And I thought that's a great idea.
00:22:45.329 --> 00:22:45.900
So we did that.
00:22:46.454 --> 00:22:49.125
Ah, and he came in and did a great meal.
00:22:49.125 --> 00:22:56.265
A bunch of friends came over, 20 or 30 friends came over in our home and we had this meal and gosh, people stayed really late.
00:22:56.269 --> 00:22:57.285
These are our friends of ours.
00:22:57.285 --> 00:23:03.825
And so I remember it was a Saturday night and one of the families didn't leave until two in the morning, one in the morning, something like that.
00:23:04.095 --> 00:23:04.365
Wow.
00:23:04.484 --> 00:23:09.734
And got up the next morning and I woke up and we were late for church and everybody sound asleep.
00:23:09.734 --> 00:23:10.394
The kids are asleep.
00:23:10.394 --> 00:23:11.325
Erica's exhausted.
00:23:11.474 --> 00:23:18.944
So I just let them sleep and I went downstairs and I was just curious how much, how wonder how much we raised?
00:23:19.664 --> 00:23:24.164
And I'm a, I'm an accountant by education finance guy, and so I'm a spreadsheet guy.
00:23:24.164 --> 00:23:25.664
And so I had two spreadsheets.
00:23:27.015 --> 00:23:34.575
One was of every person that had donated anything to this adventure that we were in because I wanted to thank them personally after we had completed.
00:23:35.384 --> 00:23:46.365
And so I went and looked at all the checks that we had gotten the night before and I added them, the spreadsheet and I added'em all up and it came out to like$27,183 or something like that from that one dinner.
00:23:46.994 --> 00:23:49.335
Over the course of time, over the last months, okay.
00:23:49.545 --> 00:23:52.934
Which was way more than we had originally targeted.
00:23:52.940 --> 00:24:03.045
So now we could do a water project, now we can do some textbooks, we can do all these things, but at another spree spreadsheet of all the costs that we were gonna need for a variety of things to go do this project.
00:24:03.795 --> 00:24:09.974
And it was all in Ugandan shillings So I had to go look for an exchange rate for an exa Ugandan shillings.
00:24:09.974 --> 00:24:14.994
So I was adding it up and there was an exchange rate at the time it's a eight decimals, right?
00:24:15.255 --> 00:24:20.805
And so I popped that in there and it came out to$27,183 and 35.
00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:28.049
it was thir literally 35 cents difference than what I needed versus what we had received.
00:24:28.529 --> 00:24:48.059
And so I did what any good Christian will do as I went and I reran the numbers, And when I realized that it was exactly the same, I went upstairs and woke up Eric, up as Eric up, and I said, honey you gotta see this cuz this is just affirmation that we are doing the next right thing.
00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:53.190
We're, on this path and we're just gonna continue on this path and trust him with the results.
00:24:53.194 --> 00:25:01.950
And so we that's a, one of those God's stories along the way that is hard for some people to believe, but it's it's not coincidence.
00:25:01.954 --> 00:25:02.519
It just isn't.
00:25:03.089 --> 00:25:06.029
And it's it's funny, we've all heard stories like that.
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:07.500
It was just the right amount.
00:25:07.529 --> 00:25:15.000
That's just incredible when you invited these people and this is just a learning, when you invited those 30 some odd friends to this dinner.
00:25:15.809 --> 00:25:19.019
did they did that include non-Christians as well as Christians?
00:25:19.049 --> 00:25:19.140
Oh, yeah.
00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:20.309
Or were they were, it did.
00:25:20.380 --> 00:25:20.890
Oh yeah.
00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:21.369
Oh yeah.
00:25:21.369 --> 00:25:21.750
And every,
00:25:21.750 --> 00:25:23.250
did everybody participate?
00:25:23.730 --> 00:25:24.029
Pretty much?
00:25:24.630 --> 00:25:25.349
Yeah, everybody did.
00:25:26.069 --> 00:25:26.700
So it wasn't a
00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:27.930
Christian meeting?
00:25:28.259 --> 00:25:34.950
No, this really was, this is, we're focused on helping build this school and this com and help develop this community.
00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:40.079
In my younger day, I was a pretty good tennis player, so I was in a tennis league and doubles leagues and all that.
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:42.750
And so these are just our neighborhood friends, our tennis friends.
00:25:42.869 --> 00:25:43.559
Oh, that's great.
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:44.099
School.
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:49.289
Just, we just gathered as many people as wanted to, come and hear what we were trying to go do.
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:50.880
And yeah.
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:51.119
So now
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:57.809
you got this$27,000 or what would be close to a billion Uganda shillings.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:25:58.170
Okay.
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:01.890
So whatever the number is, what is what was the next
00:26:01.890 --> 00:26:02.160
step?
00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:07.589
I decided that I was done raising money and I'm just gonna go do it.
00:26:08.674 --> 00:26:09.750
We needed to build this building.
00:26:09.750 --> 00:26:14.460
I set I, promised that I would go build the building and so we set out to do that.
00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:26.640
And so that was in the sep we had that dinner in September and we put dates on the books to go between Christmas, the Christmas break, Christmas, new Year break and started making the plans to go do all that.
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:33.420
And we got the airfares and we had to figure out what the ministry on the gown ground that we were helping.
00:26:33.424 --> 00:26:35.099
They could help us with hotels and all of that.
00:26:35.190 --> 00:26:37.529
And we just put all the things in place to go.
00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:53.039
And the day after Christmas in 2000, and I guess that was five through my three kids at the time, and Eric and I on a plane, my buddy Dave, who went on that first trip, he went with us and we traveled to Uganda.
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:55.829
And our family thinks we're crazy.
00:26:56.730 --> 00:27:00.059
Our generation, Charlie what do you think about when you think about Uganda?
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:01.260
You think about EDM e.
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:02.579
Absolutely.
00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:02.849
Yeah.
00:27:02.910 --> 00:27:06.410
And people listening, young people, yeah.
00:27:06.414 --> 00:27:10.470
You think about these Israelis surrounding the plane right.
00:27:10.470 --> 00:27:11.700
At Atten Bay, at
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:14.730
TE Airport, and back then, that's what we thought about.
00:27:14.730 --> 00:27:16.710
That's still what our generation thinks about.
00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:27.329
Anyway, so we went and got on the ground and after a few days of building this building, making really every mistake,
00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:30.569
and this is where your, is this where your book actually starts?
00:27:31.109 --> 00:27:31.859
Yeah, pretty much.
00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:37.170
This is where you enter and you're, I love it where you stay there's all these bucks flying around.
00:27:37.170 --> 00:27:38.279
We're in, TE airport.
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:44.190
This guys with AK 47 s around us, and I'm here with my wife and kids, and I'm like, what did I just do?
00:27:44.589 --> 00:27:44.910
Okay.
00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:45.720
I just love that.
00:27:46.289 --> 00:27:46.829
What have I done?
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:51.089
I've had that exact same feeling when I flew into that exact same airport.
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:51.390
Okay.
00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:53.009
Yeah.
00:27:53.099 --> 00:27:54.539
And my kids were 10.
00:27:55.615 --> 00:27:55.934
Whatever they were.
00:27:56.115 --> 00:27:56.535
Yeah.
00:27:57.194 --> 00:28:00.345
So what have I done and was what I was thinking.
00:28:00.345 --> 00:28:04.154
And but the people were were wonderful.
00:28:04.184 --> 00:28:10.904
And we arrived in the community and they had already laid the foundation for the building.
00:28:10.910 --> 00:28:11.684
We'd seen that.
00:28:11.684 --> 00:28:13.785
We're just trying to get our, get acclimated.
00:28:13.789 --> 00:28:19.785
But really the point is, that after just a few days I was sitting with Erica at night.
00:28:19.789 --> 00:28:24.315
The kids had gone to sleep and I said what we're doing here is of no moment.
00:28:24.914 --> 00:28:25.964
This, doesn't even matter.
00:28:25.970 --> 00:28:28.875
This is a small drop in a really big bucket.
00:28:28.875 --> 00:28:35.714
My first experience with extreme poverty environments, and I was really frustrated, I was disappointed.
00:28:35.714 --> 00:28:42.585
I thought we were going over there to make a difference for generations with a permanent school building and a water project.
00:28:43.410 --> 00:28:45.480
and the, problems were massive.
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:53.220
And I had all these questions and again, when you have that, you just do the next right thing, which is to finish the,
00:28:53.220 --> 00:28:55.140
but here's something that, that's different.
00:28:55.410 --> 00:28:57.930
You did something like what you call the next right thing.
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:03.390
And what most of us, including me in many cases is, was the next Right thing is.
00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:18.599
And when I see that this is the effort that I'm putting out and the time I'm putting in and the money that I'm putting towards this, cause isn't la literally, you call it a, drop in a bucket it's it's almost to me it became a drop in the ocean.
00:29:19.349 --> 00:29:19.500
Yeah.
00:29:19.714 --> 00:29:20.279
It's what?
00:29:21.269 --> 00:29:27.210
This is so big and such a big issue this poverty is so pervasive.
00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:30.150
There's we have cultural issues.
00:29:30.150 --> 00:29:38.250
You got the poverty, economic issues, you got education issues, you got because we're smart enough, we're business people, we think about all that stuff.
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:41.819
And I'm like, and I'm laying a brick.
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:54.630
Or I'm, teaching these people how to become entrepreneurs and of the 500'em standing in front of one of them's paying attention.
00:29:56.309 --> 00:29:57.150
What am I doing?
00:29:58.230 --> 00:30:00.240
Why don't I just go home and do what I do?
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:03.990
My market, the people I serve, they're Americans.
00:30:03.990 --> 00:30:05.160
I don't know how to do this.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:06.210
But you didn't do that?
00:30:06.509 --> 00:30:07.640
No, I didn't.
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:07.880
Why?
00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:33.210
I, think the, way I'd answer that, Charlie, is I'm not fooling anybody by just going home and continuing to do what I was, doing, because I was convinced that what I was supposed to do was that.
00:30:34.049 --> 00:30:39.960
That I was supposed to I, was where I was supposed to be when I was supposed to be there.
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:51.839
I had no answers to this problem, but I did have I, was compelled to ask the questions and and there there was no, turning back from it.
00:30:52.410 --> 00:30:54.539
What are you gonna do right when you have a how did
00:30:54.539 --> 00:30:56.160
you know you were supposed to do this?
00:30:56.190 --> 00:30:56.759
When you have a
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:58.950
defining moment, you're only, you're not, tell
00:30:59.250 --> 00:31:00.210
me about that defining moment.
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:00.660
That's, you're
00:31:01.009 --> 00:31:04.589
not fooling God in a defining moment and you're only fooling yourself.
00:31:04.595 --> 00:31:17.819
It's between him and and he knows the truth here, and that is that got this problem, I don't understand it, but I am, I cannot get out from inside of me.
00:31:19.829 --> 00:31:22.230
The what's the word?
00:31:22.950 --> 00:31:28.269
The, con I was con compelled the conviction con, conviction to con continue to try to figure it out.
00:31:29.464 --> 00:31:30.779
And so when I came
00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:40.440
back, didn't you have those thoughts though that said if I really start digging on this and trying to figure out this problem, that's like sitting in front of me.
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:45.480
That's just, it's almost like it has, its it's, nails into you.
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:46.380
It's gripped you.
00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:47.039
Okay.
00:31:47.069 --> 00:31:48.930
It's not a problem you can shake off.
00:31:48.930 --> 00:31:50.549
It's a tar baby, if you will.
00:31:51.299 --> 00:31:51.859
Didn't you?
00:31:52.470 --> 00:32:02.549
The rationale starts at that point, which is, yeah, but I got a wife and kids and I live in Atlanta, and this would mean that I'm gonna have to come over here a lot.
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.480
Because the problem, I can't solve it long distance.
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:11.039
I gotta actually get closer to it to understand it so that I can in fact solve it.
00:32:11.730 --> 00:32:12.089
Okay?
00:32:12.089 --> 00:32:13.380
And I can't do it alone.
00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:18.390
That means I'm gonna need money and I'm gonna need people, I'm gonna need cooperation from the people.
00:32:18.690 --> 00:32:22.410
You start, your mind starts going, and that's where, again, it's a second shot to say.
00:32:23.714 --> 00:32:25.184
I can unv now.
00:32:26.535 --> 00:32:26.865
yes.
00:32:26.865 --> 00:32:29.325
See because I rolled it up.
00:32:29.855 --> 00:32:30.375
I, can look ahead.
00:32:30.375 --> 00:32:34.424
I always say there's no such thing as a 40 year old entrepreneur because he knows too much.
00:32:34.845 --> 00:32:36.255
He knows how hard this is.
00:32:36.259 --> 00:32:36.315
Yeah.
00:32:36.555 --> 00:32:37.484
But here you are.
00:32:37.484 --> 00:32:37.875
So what
00:32:37.875 --> 00:32:38.325
happened?
00:32:38.484 --> 00:32:38.974
I don't know.
00:32:39.285 --> 00:32:41.775
I think it's like anything else.
00:32:42.214 --> 00:32:42.914
I, see.
00:32:43.934 --> 00:32:48.825
Not like anything else even when I've started some businesses in the past, I'm trying to solve a problem.
00:32:49.424 --> 00:32:49.845
Yeah.
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:52.785
I see a problem that's the beginning of entrepreneurship.
00:32:53.055 --> 00:32:55.845
I wanna create a business around that problem.
00:32:55.845 --> 00:32:59.115
If I see a need for that, I can solve.
00:32:59.115 --> 00:33:00.345
I want to go, I wanna go solve that.
00:33:01.694 --> 00:33:09.585
And then it was similar here, except there is this divine issue and I can't run from that.
00:33:11.025 --> 00:33:16.184
Look, you said that you were gonna do the next right thing, and trust me with the results if
00:33:16.184 --> 00:33:19.575
you don't comma, pal, pal.
00:33:19.845 --> 00:33:19.964
Right?
00:33:20.484 --> 00:33:21.174
Love that.
00:33:21.255 --> 00:33:23.335
If you don't, it's on you.
00:33:23.335 --> 00:33:39.914
And I think it's not like I sat here and was, laboring over it a lot because it was clear to me that this was something that had captured my heart and I got a job and I got a, family and I got this dumpster fire that's still raging and I gotta go handle all of that.
00:33:39.914 --> 00:33:47.174
But this is the thing that is really driving me to stay engaged.
00:33:47.204 --> 00:33:58.005
And when I came back became a little bit of a student on this problem because I had too many, I had way more questions but I'll, I would also say that I don't ask you this
00:33:58.005 --> 00:33:58.214
though.
00:33:58.335 --> 00:34:06.734
What was one of the things that struck me in read reading your book is, and I've been dying to ask you this question, when did you.
00:34:07.349 --> 00:34:26.550
You see what's happened is people have defined the problem, these NGOs or these missionary organizations that bring churches in with all their people and everything, just like you got eventually saw that, you saw that schoolhouse that was falling apart, right?
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:34.469
Those people, they, they've defined the problem and their solution to it is to just go and help.
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:39.239
And so build the schoolhouse or to do these things, they, that's the solution.
00:34:39.690 --> 00:34:48.360
You looked when you were over there and you said, I don't know that's the problem, and I don't think this is the solution, even if it was the problem,
00:34:49.710 --> 00:34:51.000
I think what I said was we're after, so when
00:34:51.250 --> 00:35:00.239
did you def my question in all that introduction is when did you actually, or how did you get to defining the real problem?
00:35:01.425 --> 00:35:12.465
I, think the questions I was asking over there I thought were the right questions and the world was asking the wrong questions.
00:35:14.715 --> 00:35:16.815
And the questions I was asking
00:35:16.815 --> 00:35:21.344
is why gimme the comparison between the world's questions and then we'll get to your questions.
00:35:22.485 --> 00:35:25.875
The world's, I need to know where we're coming from so that I see what you saw.
00:35:25.994 --> 00:35:26.295
Okay.
00:35:27.135 --> 00:35:30.525
The, world's questions is, are what can I do to go solve that need?
00:35:31.425 --> 00:35:31.454
Okay.
00:35:32.175 --> 00:35:33.315
What can I, go do to.
00:35:34.065 --> 00:35:35.235
Solve that problem.
00:35:35.295 --> 00:35:36.164
That's my question.
00:35:36.164 --> 00:35:40.184
I ans I ask, what can I go, do to solve that school building problem?
00:35:40.414 --> 00:35:45.094
Or that water problem or education problem or whatever the problem is when
00:35:45.094 --> 00:35:49.304
you fell into that, that says the house, the school building's fallen down.
00:35:49.335 --> 00:35:50.864
I know how to build a building.
00:35:51.284 --> 00:35:52.454
I'll go over there and build a building.
00:35:52.905 --> 00:35:54.914
There's a problem that I can go fix.
00:35:55.215 --> 00:35:55.664
Okay, good.
00:35:56.175 --> 00:35:57.974
And I'm gonna feel really good about myself to fix it.
00:35:57.974 --> 00:36:01.184
Don't get wrong, We feel good about ourselves.
00:36:01.784 --> 00:36:03.045
Nothing wrong with that, but
00:36:03.135 --> 00:36:03.525
that's right.
00:36:03.525 --> 00:36:06.914
You come back, you have a party, you show everybody what happened, the before and after.
00:36:07.034 --> 00:36:07.364
I think the
00:36:07.364 --> 00:36:10.875
question, the right question is, what problem are we solving?
00:36:12.795 --> 00:36:29.114
I should have asked what problem am I really looking to go solve and I'm not looking today as four 10 bridges evolved and we continued to probably get more wrong than we get, but we're we're evolving and learning and changing and is we are not looking to solve.
00:36:30.105 --> 00:36:33.974
A water problem, an education problem, an economic development problem, a health problem.
00:36:33.974 --> 00:36:35.414
We're trying to solve a poverty problem.
00:36:36.585 --> 00:36:47.235
And if you're like any business guy, if you're gonna go solve a problem, you better define it because if you don't define it you may be implementing a solution that's solving a completely different problem.
00:36:47.565 --> 00:36:52.485
So it came to me trying to understand what is the real definition of poverty?
00:36:53.054 --> 00:36:54.315
How do you define poverty?
00:36:55.164 --> 00:36:59.474
And if you ask anybody, average person out there, what is poverty?
00:36:59.474 --> 00:37:00.525
How would you define poverty?
00:37:01.034 --> 00:37:07.485
They would give a definition that's rooted in materiality, in finances, in money.
00:37:08.534 --> 00:37:10.695
And I just don't believe that's true.
00:37:11.534 --> 00:37:13.184
There's lots of different kinds of, not lots.
00:37:13.184 --> 00:37:14.625
There's a, there's different kinds of poverty.
00:37:14.625 --> 00:37:23.655
There's spiritual poverty, and there's physi there is material poverty, there's health, poverty, there's relative poverty, all of that.
00:37:24.090 --> 00:37:24.539
But at the end
00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:33.210
of the day, so what you're saying here though is I didn't start with how do I see a need, so how can I help?
00:37:33.510 --> 00:37:40.230
You're saying here you went, you brought it up 10,000 feet, 30,000 feet, saying this is a poverty issue.
00:37:40.710 --> 00:37:43.210
How do what is poverty first?
00:37:43.530 --> 00:37:47.489
And then how do I then address that if I wanna solve it?
00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:48.929
Exactly.
00:37:49.755 --> 00:37:50.054
Exactly.
00:37:51.099 --> 00:37:55.454
So, tell me, bring me along that path on how, you proceeded with that.
00:37:55.994 --> 00:37:56.835
I think it's, this is the
00:37:56.835 --> 00:37:58.125
heart of four 10 Bridge.
00:37:58.184 --> 00:37:58.514
It is.
00:37:58.514 --> 00:37:59.594
It's ab absolutely is.
00:37:59.775 --> 00:38:06.855
I think that it's important for everyone to understand that this has been a thought process has evolved over 16 years.
00:38:06.860 --> 00:38:12.675
And I'm just a I'm a child in this space compared to people that have been studying it for years and years.
00:38:12.675 --> 00:38:15.855
But I'm a blue collar, get it done kind of guy.
00:38:16.215 --> 00:38:16.574
I'm not, yeah.
00:38:17.744 --> 00:38:21.344
And I don't wanna, I don't wanna read or write a bunch of white papers on it.
00:38:21.344 --> 00:38:22.784
I'm wanna go, I'm gonna go, you're
00:38:23.135 --> 00:38:23.594
a pragmatist.
00:38:23.655 --> 00:38:23.925
There's
00:38:23.929 --> 00:38:24.764
no doubt about it.
00:38:26.204 --> 00:38:38.025
When I was over there the first time, I was, the way I would say it, I think I, I said it in my head and I was asking Erica these questions like, why do, why are, why do these people have the perspectives that they have?
00:38:38.054 --> 00:38:40.304
Why are the men sitting around doing nothing?
00:38:40.844 --> 00:38:42.465
Why are the women doing everything?
00:38:42.465 --> 00:38:47.775
Where are the, where's the community here and helping us build this building?
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:56.579
I don't understand why I don't understand which is a statement, but this is a big
00:38:56.579 --> 00:39:11.460
one for you because one of them was, and you show it in the early in the book, is you say, why am I working on putting these, laying all these bricks, and I have all these guys, these community guys, their community is sitting there
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:12.539
watching me, right?
00:39:13.364 --> 00:39:17.880
So again, it comes back to asking the wrong questions and start asking the right questions.
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:25.230
And I think that's the right question, but that's a question that I asked, which means that if I'm gonna go make a difference, I've gotta go solve that problem.
00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:31.289
How do I make the community to go solve their own problems as opposed to looking to outsiders to come in and solve them for them?
00:39:31.530 --> 00:39:31.679
So
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:36.000
the need then, in that case, I would say the need's, not the in the problem.
00:39:36.059 --> 00:39:38.909
The need isn't the, school building needs to be built.
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:39.269
Nope.
00:39:39.269 --> 00:39:45.599
The need is Why, are the men sitting on the wall and they're not doing anything right?
00:39:45.989 --> 00:39:46.320
Okay.
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.559
So had the need being, they need to be engaged.
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:52.289
They need to care about their community more than
00:39:52.289 --> 00:39:52.679
I do.
00:39:53.250 --> 00:39:54.000
And why don't they?
00:39:54.429 --> 00:39:58.440
Yeah, And why don't they, and they're living in poverty.
00:39:58.769 --> 00:39:59.369
What's the thing?
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:00.449
Isn't it obvious?
00:40:00.449 --> 00:40:01.469
Shouldn't they just do
00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:01.980
something?
00:40:02.250 --> 00:40:04.679
That's where it gets really messy because culture matters.
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:05.849
People matter.
00:40:05.849 --> 00:40:07.230
Communities are all different.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.199
They're,
00:40:10.230 --> 00:40:15.539
now you're starting to get to me about how big this is and how many threads it has when you start pulling
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:15.659
on
00:40:15.664 --> 00:40:15.780
it.
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:17.610
But it really only has one thread.
00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:18.809
Ah, okay.
00:40:18.809 --> 00:40:25.230
This is an oversimplification and there's gonna be some mythologist experts that may listen to me one day and go, that guy's all full of hot air.
00:40:25.230 --> 00:40:32.099
But in Kurt's humble opinion, there is one thread, and that one thread is worldview.
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:41.130
Worldview is the conversation we're having in our head, the story we're telling ourselves to be true.
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.940
The, our perspectives and our, we all have a worldview.
00:40:44.945 --> 00:40:49.679
You have, when I have one and every one of our worldviews drive the choices that we make.
00:40:51.215 --> 00:40:55.289
And those choices are gonna drive the actions we take or don't take.
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:09.809
And what I've seen and learned over the last, almost now 17 years, is that worldview shift, the choices that people make, have more to do with whether or not a group of people will thrive or live in deprivation than anything else.
00:41:10.619 --> 00:41:18.750
And so when, you, so that's, the thread, that's the thing that we are trying to impact and how you do that.
00:41:18.750 --> 00:41:23.309
Super complicated But at the end of the day, anything to change somebody's
00:41:23.460 --> 00:41:31.440
worldview, I'm sorry to change someone's worldview in the midst of a community.
00:41:32.429 --> 00:41:35.775
or even a nation that shares that worldview.
00:41:37.094 --> 00:41:39.434
That kind of puts it in perspective.
00:41:39.465 --> 00:41:49.664
You mean I was there in Uganda and I was in the minority on my worldview, and they were in the super majority.
00:41:50.385 --> 00:41:53.545
So how do you, how, what how do you
00:41:53.824 --> 00:41:54.135
approach this?
00:41:57.704 --> 00:42:01.664
First of all why did you, get convicted that was it?
00:42:03.230 --> 00:42:05.655
That was the thread that was the problem.
00:42:05.655 --> 00:42:11.835
This worldview, when I went all the way down to the very, very foundation of it all, that's what we
00:42:11.835 --> 00:42:12.554
gotta change.
00:42:12.735 --> 00:42:19.184
So it's the, progression of that Charlie was, is that over there I was saying at the time, feels like a lifetime ago.
00:42:19.190 --> 00:42:21.764
You know what, why do they have this perspective that they have?
00:42:21.945 --> 00:42:23.175
Why do they think this is okay?
00:42:24.255 --> 00:42:27.014
Why aren't they doing more to solve their own problems?
00:42:27.045 --> 00:42:36.179
And it's a, in a classic kind of arrogant, American way and American tone, which I'm not proud of, but it is our culture too, right?
00:42:36.809 --> 00:42:38.159
See a problem, solve a problem.
00:42:38.164 --> 00:42:52.050
And that evolved over time to reading and learning and listening to people who had, who were able to describe that more accurately.
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:58.860
And the thing, the book that really changed my view on it was a book by Daryl Miller called discipling Nations.
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:06.510
And I read Discipling Nations and the, words just jumped off the page to me and I quote a lot of it.
00:43:06.510 --> 00:43:08.940
And my book, Dar Darrell endorsed my book.
00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:12.539
He's anyway, so
00:43:12.989 --> 00:43:15.090
it was just, what's the author's name again, just to have it?
00:43:15.094 --> 00:43:15.809
Little Darrow.
00:43:16.019 --> 00:43:16.469
D a
00:43:16.710 --> 00:43:17.610
r o w.
00:43:18.150 --> 00:43:18.480
Darrow.
00:43:18.539 --> 00:43:19.889
Darrow Miller.
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:20.699
Miller.
00:43:20.730 --> 00:43:21.090
Okay.
00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:26.300
And that book just was the Bidens, how did you get that book?
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.510
I don't I don't even know who told me about it.
00:43:31.139 --> 00:43:31.559
I can't even
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:31.889
remember.
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:39.090
But I read, it's probably one of these, you were probably talking about what you're seeing and the difficulty, what you were wrestling with, and they said, oh, you should read what
00:43:39.420 --> 00:43:40.050
Miller's book.
00:43:41.429 --> 00:43:43.289
And it's, 30 years old at this point.
00:43:43.530 --> 00:43:44.219
It's not a new book.
00:43:44.219 --> 00:43:44.489
Okay.
00:43:44.579 --> 00:44:12.090
I think the difference is, I think the distinctive here for me, for Four 10 Bridge for all the, a lot of other organizations trying to work in this space is, that I, want I, I feel like the complexity in what we do after you define the problem properly, is in executing solutions and staying on track with discipline inside some strategic guardrails that keep you focused.
00:44:12.090 --> 00:44:17.219
Because in our space, it's highly emotional, especially when it comes to children.
00:44:17.730 --> 00:44:24.480
And there is this sense, there is this myth I, call it a myth, is that anything that we do for the poor must be a good thing.
00:44:25.769 --> 00:44:26.849
And I disagree with that.
00:44:27.630 --> 00:44:36.119
And so we are trying to put things in place that are highly disciplined, moving toward outcomes, not process.
00:44:36.300 --> 00:44:40.650
We're trying to achieve specific measurable outcomes in the communities where we work.
00:44:41.940 --> 00:44:44.190
Not measuring activity, but those outcomes.
00:44:44.190 --> 00:44:53.760
And those outcomes all have to be driving people toward a Christian biblical worldview that helps them understand that one, God loves them.
00:44:53.789 --> 00:44:55.679
They were created in his image.
00:44:56.099 --> 00:44:58.440
They have, they were created for a purpose.
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.989
They're forgiven, and therefore they should be forgivers.
00:45:01.469 --> 00:45:02.909
And they have responsibilities.
00:45:02.909 --> 00:45:03.989
They have responsibilities.
00:45:03.989 --> 00:45:11.579
God calls us to have responsibilities, to be godly parents and godly spouses, and godly school teachers, godly business owners, godly leaders, all of that.
00:45:11.585 --> 00:45:19.514
And when all of that happens in one place they will do more to solve their extreme poverty problem without us, than they will with us.
00:45:19.514 --> 00:45:34.454
And we can graduate them and move on knowing that they are and have put things in place where their mindset has changed, their worldview has shifted where they say before four 10 Bridge came in we had a, poverty of the mind.
00:45:34.815 --> 00:45:35.625
This is what they say to me.
00:45:35.684 --> 00:45:36.434
They have poverty.
00:45:36.465 --> 00:45:37.605
We have poverty of the mind.
00:45:38.474 --> 00:45:43.815
You taught us that God has given us everything that we need to change the quality of our lives.
00:45:44.144 --> 00:45:46.005
And we have to start with what we have.
00:45:46.034 --> 00:45:49.844
We have to stop looking to outsiders to solve our problems.
00:45:50.355 --> 00:45:51.914
We can solve our own problems here.
00:45:52.605 --> 00:45:55.635
And do they have the capacity to solve their own problems?
00:45:56.385 --> 00:45:58.244
They may and they may not.
00:45:58.275 --> 00:46:07.815
And so our job is to help lift their capacity, to help them go further, faster, and shift, help them shift their worldview from whatever it is today to a Christian biblical worldview.
00:46:07.815 --> 00:46:10.844
And when that happens, man, that's a beautiful thing, and that's what's happened in.
00:46:11.650 --> 00:46:16.019
13 communities so far, and on, its way and many others now.
00:46:16.019 --> 00:46:20.039
It doesn't work everywhere, but it, does work and it's a beautiful thing when it does.
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:21.090
So
00:46:21.449 --> 00:46:26.880
The, worldview it, came, it became clear to you.
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:37.559
I'm trying to tell you back what I heard is this worldview that you saw that they had was this, worldview of scarcity.
00:46:38.789 --> 00:46:43.530
I got put in a, I got, I'm born into a very awful situation.
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:46.019
This, poverty, if you will.
00:46:46.050 --> 00:46:47.880
And it's just where I am.
00:46:48.210 --> 00:46:51.659
If anybody comes in and they give me money or they help me out, great.
00:46:52.010 --> 00:46:54.179
But there's nothing I can do about it.
00:46:55.170 --> 00:46:55.349
Yeah.
00:46:55.349 --> 00:46:58.170
I would say on your side, you're saying if you only.
00:47:00.224 --> 00:47:01.304
Jesus Christ.
00:47:01.514 --> 00:47:02.175
Okay?
00:47:02.385 --> 00:47:03.704
The gospel of Jesus Christ.
00:47:03.704 --> 00:47:13.644
If he, which would give you this, direct line to understand God better and all the resources that are available, we have a God of tremendous capacity and resources.
00:47:16.215 --> 00:47:19.574
you would, your view of life, of your life would completely change.
00:47:19.784 --> 00:47:21.614
And if it did, everything
00:47:21.619 --> 00:47:22.184
would change.
00:47:22.635 --> 00:47:23.925
I might say it a little bit different.
00:47:24.434 --> 00:47:25.244
Say it different for me.
00:47:25.585 --> 00:47:30.255
Our, in our communities where we work, in the world, we're working in, reached areas of the world.
00:47:30.284 --> 00:47:33.704
They have heard the gospel, they know Jesus.
00:47:35.085 --> 00:47:41.775
But like me, I think they have declared Jesus Lord, but they haven't allowed him to Lord over their life.
00:47:41.775 --> 00:47:53.835
They're not looking to move to be more Christ-like in their, everyday life and how they interact with their neighbors and how they interact with their spouses and.
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:58.409
Where does tradition and culture collide with God's word?
00:47:58.829 --> 00:47:59.909
We have the same issue over here.
00:47:59.909 --> 00:48:01.050
It's everywhere in the world, right?
00:48:01.590 --> 00:48:08.519
But tradition culture, what we know to we or think to be true, what the world is telling us.
00:48:08.909 --> 00:48:11.250
Collides with God's word.
00:48:11.849 --> 00:48:13.949
And we always point to Romans 12 too.
00:48:13.949 --> 00:48:18.150
It's don't conform to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:22.800
That that's a critically important scripture.
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.469
And so what is the world telling you about marriage?
00:48:26.219 --> 00:48:28.559
What is your culture telling you about marriage?
00:48:28.829 --> 00:48:31.230
What is tradition telling you about marriage?
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:33.300
Now, what is God's word say about that?
00:48:34.380 --> 00:48:38.369
And that is very different for a Kenyan marriage, for example.
00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:42.000
Now this is a great philosophical.
00:48:43.230 --> 00:48:43.619
Okay.
00:48:43.619 --> 00:48:49.320
And I agree with you a hundred percent this whole concept of it's not just lead.
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:56.070
Not just seeing Jesus as Lord, but seeing him as truly Lord over your life.
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:56.550
Okay?
00:48:57.420 --> 00:49:05.789
So if this is the great aha, and I love the name of Dar Miller's book, discipling Nations, okay?
00:49:06.630 --> 00:49:13.380
Not helping the poor, more Effectively, not doing Right, discipling nations, which speaks directly to what you're saying here.
00:49:13.469 --> 00:49:13.889
Exactly.
00:49:13.949 --> 00:49:15.989
How do I go from this?
00:49:16.230 --> 00:49:23.190
And this has been an issue that I have trouble with, is how do I go from what I think is a philosophical or biblical truth?
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:32.519
In this particular sit situation putting together a methodology that sort of accomplishes that.
00:49:33.570 --> 00:49:35.760
So how do you, so help me out
00:49:35.764 --> 00:49:36.150
there.
00:49:36.269 --> 00:49:37.440
Okay, so that's what I was saying.
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:37.710
What did
00:49:37.710 --> 00:49:38.130
you do?
00:49:38.130 --> 00:49:39.329
Tell me your story on that.
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:39.900
It's really hard to
00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:43.710
execute on that Exactly what we do though.
00:49:44.114 --> 00:49:46.920
What, it ends up being is, oh, you just need to know Jesus.
00:49:46.949 --> 00:49:51.480
And if you do know Jesus, you need to come on, start following Jesus.
00:49:51.510 --> 00:49:54.090
Renew your mind so you have the mind of Christ.
00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:54.960
Oh, that helped.
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:55.619
Yeah.
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:56.369
I'm all over it.
00:49:56.820 --> 00:50:00.090
I think that's a classic way of helping the poor.
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:01.710
You just need to know Jesus, Kurt.
00:50:01.710 --> 00:50:02.820
They just need Jesus.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:03.599
No, they do.
00:50:03.690 --> 00:50:04.349
They absolutely do.
00:50:04.349 --> 00:50:08.369
But they're not bodies without souls and they're not souls without bodies.
00:50:08.369 --> 00:50:08.849
They're both.
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:12.300
So we can help them physically while we That's beautiful spiritually.
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:14.789
And how do we, how do you actually go do that?
00:50:14.789 --> 00:50:16.289
And I'll give you examples of how we do that.
00:50:17.699 --> 00:50:18.659
There, there are two.
00:50:19.739 --> 00:50:26.010
Programs that we run in our economic development kind of area of our cuz we're holistic development, right?
00:50:26.010 --> 00:50:28.829
So a big part of that is economic empowerment.
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:30.239
We run two programs.
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:32.429
One of those is called business Startup Training.
00:50:32.429 --> 00:50:33.449
It's entrepreneurship training.
00:50:33.449 --> 00:50:33.840
I love it.
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:39.690
And what they do is they learn how to start or better their existing business.
00:50:39.690 --> 00:50:42.239
They're all entrepreneurs over there because I I'd say
00:50:44.190 --> 00:50:47.190
they're all the poor, by and large are entrepreneurs.
00:50:47.190 --> 00:50:47.909
They have to be,
00:50:48.150 --> 00:50:49.079
they're self-employed.
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:49.710
I'll put it there.
00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:50.000
Yeah.
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:50.440
Yeah.
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:54.449
Some have an entrepreneurial spirit more than others, but that's another topic for another time.
00:50:55.769 --> 00:51:09.389
But we have a, curriculum that we we train community members on and it basically does the basic business training that we would almost think to be common sense.
00:51:09.510 --> 00:51:12.659
Hey the, money in your pocket is not yours.
00:51:12.659 --> 00:51:14.519
The money in your pocket is your businesses.
00:51:15.690 --> 00:51:18.210
You, can't steal from your business by spending that money.
00:51:18.210 --> 00:51:18.719
It's your business.
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:20.010
You gotta reinvest it in your business.
00:51:20.010 --> 00:51:24.329
You can't stop drinking or eating your profits if you're selling coke or food or whatever.
00:51:25.739 --> 00:51:29.039
You know all these, you know what it means to write a basic business plan.
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:35.519
Finding out what the community needs, what do they value, what would they be willing to pay for that you could provide a service for.
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:40.409
All of these things are in the basic, how to start a microenterprise, a small enterprise.
00:51:40.590 --> 00:51:41.969
All of that's really, helpful.
00:51:42.929 --> 00:51:48.750
But if we were only to do that, we would fail because within that, we need to teach.
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:51.809
Teach these entrepreneurs what God says about money.
00:51:52.739 --> 00:51:57.719
What God says about their relationships with their spouses are their spouses partners in this business.
00:51:58.289 --> 00:52:00.289
What's their relationship with their neighbors?
00:52:00.289 --> 00:52:04.380
If you want to have a successful business, you need customers, and your customers are your neighbors.
00:52:04.380 --> 00:52:09.960
And if everybody in your community hates you because you have broken relationships, you're not gonna have a successful business.
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:17.789
And God wants you in his word to repair broken relationships and be a godly citizen of your community.
00:52:17.789 --> 00:52:43.500
And we talk about generosity and all these biblical worldview kind of teachings that are relevant to business and what happens, the beautiful thing that happens here that I think a lot of western organizations miss is that while the church, the local church in that community, or churches in that community are the hero of this development effort, a lot of the people that are learning this business training aren't going to church.
00:52:44.324 --> 00:52:46.364
So they're never able to hear God's truth.
00:52:46.364 --> 00:52:50.324
But when we bring God's truth into a program that's relevant to them, they're gonna listen.
00:52:50.835 --> 00:53:00.014
And we have more people come to the Lord in our business startup training, our foundations for farming training, which is basically training farming God's way than we do in any other program.
00:53:00.135 --> 00:53:02.534
And then the church, the local church becomes attractive.
00:53:03.315 --> 00:53:11.835
It's no longer the house of no, that people see how God's word helps them in their daily life and how he has created them for a purpose.
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:14.445
And there is a right and a wrong way to do life.
00:53:14.505 --> 00:53:17.835
And tradition and culture is telling them lies.
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:20.114
The world is telling them lies of what to believe.
00:53:20.114 --> 00:53:24.614
Like we have to wait for outsiders to come in and solve this problem for us.
00:53:24.764 --> 00:53:26.744
No, we can solve this problem on our own.
00:53:26.744 --> 00:53:29.085
We're capable, we're smart.
00:53:30.195 --> 00:53:31.574
We can persevere, we can
00:53:31.574 --> 00:53:32.204
be honest.
00:53:32.210 --> 00:53:33.135
No, that is so true.
00:53:33.405 --> 00:53:42.195
This gets back to just talking about the gospel to people is if God makes sense when you apply his word.
00:53:42.885 --> 00:54:01.485
To your life situation right now, And if it's, I don't have money, or I don't have a job, or I don't or my marriage is off base or whatever, that application, learning what his word says about that, applic that's, where it all the rubber meets the road, if
00:54:01.485 --> 00:54:01.965
you will.
00:54:02.235 --> 00:54:02.534
Sure.
00:54:02.565 --> 00:54:07.244
And when we do that in our communities, we're doing it for business startup training.
00:54:07.244 --> 00:54:08.715
We're doing it for farmers.
00:54:09.375 --> 00:54:11.385
God made the soil to work this way.
00:54:11.684 --> 00:54:16.304
You need to do things on time at a standard without waste, with joy.
00:54:16.545 --> 00:54:18.465
Where is your family in this effort?
00:54:18.525 --> 00:54:21.284
Are you being honest with your community when you're reselling things?
00:54:21.284 --> 00:54:22.065
Are you being generous?
00:54:22.485 --> 00:54:23.655
Are you giving back to the church?
00:54:23.655 --> 00:54:25.724
All of these biblical teachings as it relates to.
00:54:27.030 --> 00:54:32.280
Draw people to God's truth they'll, listen to it because it's helpful to them.
00:54:32.835 --> 00:54:33.780
Help me with this though.
00:54:33.869 --> 00:54:34.619
Help me with this.
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:36.389
We skipped over something.
00:54:36.389 --> 00:54:49.260
You went right to an example, which was this business startup training that you were talking about is one of the issues that entrepreneurs have is they're very quick to do what in your case, okay.
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:59.760
Would be these NGOs or other people that want to do good, do they, they identify what appears to be the problem, only to find out later.
00:55:00.449 --> 00:55:02.519
That's not really the problem.
00:55:02.730 --> 00:55:03.119
Okay.
00:55:03.630 --> 00:55:11.039
So how did you talk about how, once you've discovered, which is this is the worldview is really the problem.
00:55:11.340 --> 00:55:23.730
Can you take me a little bit more slowly through how did you develop how did you come to the solution or how did you come to a, clearer definition so that you can come to a better solution?
00:55:24.885 --> 00:55:26.715
See, take a little bit of patience.
00:55:26.715 --> 00:55:29.264
You gotta roll back to way, when you started here.
00:55:29.534 --> 00:55:29.835
Yeah.
00:55:29.835 --> 00:55:38.655
It really wasn't all that difficult because once you determined that, or once we determined that worldview was the thread that we needed to pull, right?
00:55:38.775 --> 00:55:39.105
Yeah.
00:55:39.195 --> 00:55:40.545
We needed to go down that path.
00:55:41.985 --> 00:55:49.005
It became really clear that in everything that we did, there needed to be a biblical worldview.
00:55:49.474 --> 00:55:50.144
Teaching in what we do.
00:55:50.534 --> 00:55:57.405
We're helping people physically, we're helping them build capacity physically, both with infrastructure, human capacity training, all of that.
00:55:58.485 --> 00:56:04.155
But we don't need to, we didn't need to boil the ocean of God's word in everything.
00:56:04.155 --> 00:56:11.085
We needed to make God's word relevant to what they were learning so that they were drawn to it, and it became attractive to them.
00:56:11.864 --> 00:56:14.385
To me, how do we help the local church become at.
00:56:15.885 --> 00:56:18.704
The local churches in Kenya, for example.
00:56:19.755 --> 00:56:23.864
There's probably five to 10 churches in each one of our communities.
00:56:24.434 --> 00:56:26.175
One, how do we bring them together?
00:56:27.045 --> 00:56:29.565
How do we bring pastors who are competitive together?
00:56:29.804 --> 00:56:48.045
How do we talk to them about their culture, the realities of their community, and disseminate God's word relevant to whatever we're working on, even if it's water or education or business or health, everything that we do.
00:56:48.074 --> 00:56:54.945
If we're not helping people eternally and only helping them temporarily we're not accomplish what God's mission is for us.
00:56:54.945 --> 00:56:55.005
Yeah.
00:56:55.094 --> 00:56:55.545
But when you
00:56:55.545 --> 00:56:59.505
say helping them eternally that gets back up.
00:56:59.510 --> 00:57:01.545
That jumps me back to 30,000 feet.
00:57:01.605 --> 00:57:02.025
Okay.
00:57:02.204 --> 00:57:22.559
Whereas you say, I like what you said, which is whatever we teach, Whatever need we're addressing, if you will, major need, like you said, water, shelter, security, all those things is, it's, it starts by infusing God's word into that particular topic.
00:57:23.429 --> 00:57:23.880
That's, true.
00:57:24.389 --> 00:57:29.280
But, not, and I wanna be clear about this, but not using their need as a platform for the gospel.
00:57:30.034 --> 00:57:32.219
Cause the gospel is long enough to stand on its own.
00:57:32.610 --> 00:57:33.659
So we're not in a lot of
00:57:33.659 --> 00:57:34.110
organizations.
00:57:34.110 --> 00:57:38.849
And what you're saying is this is what God says about this activity that we're in.
00:57:38.909 --> 00:57:39.269
Yeah.
00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:43.019
This is God's truth about and how it relates to business or farming or whatever.
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:47.730
We're not saying, Hey, here, we're gonna go put water in, but we need to have you come here about Jesus before we give you one.
00:57:48.329 --> 00:57:51.659
That's the gospel doesn't need their needs to be a platform.
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:52.769
It can stand on its own.
00:57:53.099 --> 00:58:04.829
What we're doing is in everyday life, having relevant teaching of God's truth in the variety of programs that we run in schools, for example.
00:58:06.135 --> 00:58:08.235
We do a thing called Discovery Kids.
00:58:08.625 --> 00:58:16.094
And Discovery Kids is essentially biblical virtues taught to the kids in school in a very interactive, fun way.
00:58:18.014 --> 00:58:33.105
And we're teaching about perseverance and cooperation and trust and honesty and all these biblical virtues that what we find is as you do that, you know what the, their parents are hearing the same virtues as it relates to business, right?
00:58:33.164 --> 00:58:34.125
You need to be trustworthy.
00:58:34.125 --> 00:58:35.684
You need to persevere through difficult times.
00:58:35.684 --> 00:58:36.974
You need to cooperate with your neighbors.
00:58:36.974 --> 00:58:37.574
You need, right?
00:58:38.054 --> 00:58:55.815
So when all of these biblical virtues, this biblical teaching, the worldview shift is communicated and through the local churches, through programs that we run in the same place, the community and the entire community has, a higher likelihood of having an aha moment that said, you know what?
00:58:58.780 --> 00:59:02.909
We thought the wrong way before they really, truly say this to me.
00:59:03.269 --> 00:59:04.110
We, thought, how long?
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:05.219
How long?
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:09.239
And we don't we how long does, that take?
00:59:09.630 --> 00:59:10.800
That aha moment?
00:59:11.789 --> 00:59:12.480
Years.
00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:13.289
Years.
00:59:13.889 --> 00:59:14.250
Okay.
00:59:15.659 --> 00:59:17.070
Let me go back to something.
00:59:17.070 --> 00:59:20.579
I wanna switch us off we're giving, you're giving me examples.
00:59:20.579 --> 00:59:21.059
Okay.
00:59:21.059 --> 00:59:21.460
Okay.
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:29.639
You have a, I, I learned from your book, you have a very well defined methodology Okay.
00:59:29.699 --> 00:59:34.139
On how a community, how you find a community.
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:41.880
How do you qualify a community how you help them do in a, how you find their leaders, how you help them do an assessment.
00:59:42.784 --> 00:59:43.019
Okay.
00:59:43.380 --> 00:59:51.179
Of, so can you bring us through the, it was like when I was talking to my son David, who was with you in Central America.
00:59:51.719 --> 00:59:53.760
He goes his six seeds.
00:59:55.125 --> 00:59:57.735
That he applied, he said it was brilliant.
00:59:58.934 --> 01:00:01.994
And take us through some of this.
01:00:01.994 --> 01:00:13.394
I think this it's just, it's not oh yeah, here's what we do at schools and here's what we do with the pastors, and here's No you've really, you've tied this thing down, man.
01:00:13.394 --> 01:00:15.614
So why don't you bring us through this methodology.
01:00:15.795 --> 01:00:23.985
I think where we, immediately went to the one thing that we're trying to change, which is worldview and fast forwarded through a bunch of methodology to get there.
01:00:24.344 --> 01:00:24.675
Yeah.
01:00:25.394 --> 01:00:30.554
There are lots of books about how to how to engage the poor better.
01:00:31.275 --> 01:00:40.244
Where I feel like organizations are failing or have fallen short is they're not executing on those that those principles.
01:00:40.724 --> 01:00:42.554
And we want to execute well in those principles.
01:00:42.554 --> 01:00:46.335
So one of the, one of the principles, for example, it starts with being invited.
01:00:47.750 --> 01:00:49.335
We can't just show up in a community.
01:00:49.335 --> 01:00:58.304
Of course we just showed up in a community in the early days cuz what we, had to find people who knew leaders in a community who would invite us in to have a conversation.
01:00:58.514 --> 01:01:03.885
Today we get in, we are invited in many, places that we don't have the capacity to help yet.
01:01:04.454 --> 01:01:06.315
But we get invited.
01:01:06.315 --> 01:01:08.804
And when you get invited, it changes the dynamic.
01:01:08.804 --> 01:01:14.235
It changes from a dynamic from, hey, this organization is here to do projects.
01:01:14.534 --> 01:01:15.824
To, they are one of us.
01:01:15.855 --> 01:01:18.255
We're inviting them into our community.
01:01:18.704 --> 01:01:23.204
And so it takes a long time for us to one, be invited.
01:01:23.474 --> 01:01:31.215
Once we're invited, that first meeting happens and no Americans should be in that meeting.
01:01:31.219 --> 01:01:35.355
This needs to be our Kenyan, Guatemala staff having these meetings with leaders.
01:01:36.105 --> 01:01:36.255
So
01:01:36.260 --> 01:01:37.335
these are locals
01:01:37.364 --> 01:01:38.445
having these meetings.
01:01:38.534 --> 01:01:39.704
A hundred percent local staff.
01:01:39.704 --> 01:01:44.445
That's what's I'm firm believer of, that we don't need any expat Americans in our cultures where we work.
01:01:45.510 --> 01:01:48.420
Because that would just upset, that would upset the dynamic.
01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:51.960
We want Kenyans helping Kenyans, Guatemalans helping Guatemala's and so forth.
01:01:52.710 --> 01:01:57.059
So we come in, we explain what it means to be a four 10 bridge community.
01:01:57.570 --> 01:02:00.929
We're not here to do anything for you, but we're here to do with you.
01:02:01.949 --> 01:02:09.269
And we have a pretty involved methodology around examples, object lessons of how we illustrate that.
01:02:09.269 --> 01:02:10.559
I illustrate it with a rope.
01:02:10.565 --> 01:02:11.079
One of
01:02:11.079 --> 01:02:16.889
the things that's one of your principles that I thought was very, clear is the definition of development.
01:02:17.429 --> 01:02:17.820
Yeah.
01:02:18.539 --> 01:02:19.030
Yeah.
01:02:19.050 --> 01:02:23.820
Just hit that, hit on that principle, be and then we're gonna go back to,
01:02:24.389 --> 01:02:24.570
yeah.
01:02:24.570 --> 01:02:26.099
So we rise and fall in a definitions.
01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:27.809
And so how do you define development?
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:28.860
If we're a development industry?
01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:29.550
What is development?
01:02:29.550 --> 01:02:32.130
We define development by that, which people do for themselves.
01:02:32.429 --> 01:02:32.909
Ah.
01:02:33.480 --> 01:02:35.400
And so we don't measure our success by what we do.
01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:37.500
We measure our success by what they do on their own.
01:02:39.135 --> 01:02:39.885
They need to pull
01:02:39.885 --> 01:02:40.335
us.
01:02:40.545 --> 01:02:45.014
That's a 180 different view than the way that mission trips are thought of.
01:02:45.405 --> 01:02:46.905
I think everybody says that.
01:02:46.994 --> 01:02:53.835
I think they say the right things, but they don't, they really would rather come in and do what they wanna do when they wanna do it, cuz it's their money, their time.
01:02:53.925 --> 01:02:56.385
They should do it their way and, we know best.
01:02:56.594 --> 01:02:57.074
Yeah, they do.
01:02:57.585 --> 01:02:57.974
Yeah.
01:02:59.264 --> 01:03:00.824
Okay, so that's development.
01:03:00.824 --> 01:03:02.025
So you get invited in this.
01:03:02.025 --> 01:03:05.565
You got Guatemala's helping Guatemala, you got Kenyans Helping Kenyans.
01:03:05.594 --> 01:03:05.954
Okay.
01:03:06.434 --> 01:03:06.525
An
01:03:06.525 --> 01:03:07.215
initial meeting.
01:03:07.215 --> 01:03:17.324
And then we say, look, if this is of interest to you, we want you to formally invite us back and this is what it means to have a covenant kind of relationship partnership with four 10 Bridge.
01:03:17.355 --> 01:03:22.875
Again, we lay out all these kind of guardrails of we're not gonna do for you, we're gonna do with you.
01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:29.474
Which means as leaders in your community, you need to mobilize and unify your community around this development effort.
01:03:29.684 --> 01:03:32.625
The development being defined as what you do, not by what we do.
01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:34.409
For you.
01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:40.949
And if you're interested in that, invite us back formally in writing, and some do and not, all do.
01:03:40.949 --> 01:03:41.130
What are
01:03:41.409 --> 01:03:42.329
you expecting from that?
01:03:42.329 --> 01:03:44.789
When if you told me that I wouldn't know what that meant.
01:03:44.820 --> 01:03:47.010
Do I just write you notes, says please come back.
01:03:47.340 --> 01:03:51.179
Write us a letter that says, Hey, we understand what you've laid out for us.
01:03:51.184 --> 01:03:54.210
We're excited to enter into a relationship with four 10 Bridge.
01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:59.130
We wanna formally invite you to begin that, process with us, this development.
01:03:59.135 --> 01:03:59.250
Help
01:03:59.250 --> 01:03:59.670
me with this.
01:03:59.670 --> 01:04:05.130
Then when you go get invited, who's doing the inviting the first time?
01:04:05.135 --> 01:04:07.079
Who's inviting you into that community?
01:04:08.489 --> 01:04:13.079
The model works, the original vision was we wanted to go so deep in a place.
01:04:13.905 --> 01:04:15.824
That we would move the needle in that place.
01:04:15.824 --> 01:04:25.275
And we would no fool and move the needle to such a degree that places around the place that we worked took notice and invited us into their communities because of what they saw in their neighboring communities.
01:04:26.505 --> 01:04:27.465
And that's what
01:04:27.465 --> 01:04:27.675
happened.
01:04:27.675 --> 01:04:31.065
Who did the inviting if I got a community, let's say I have a village.
01:04:31.065 --> 01:04:38.864
How many people in a village, let's say there's 1500 people or 2000 people in a village, who invites the leaders there?
01:04:38.864 --> 01:04:39.195
Every
01:04:39.195 --> 01:04:40.184
village has a leader.
01:04:40.514 --> 01:04:43.695
Every leader, every village has multiple leaders.
01:04:44.025 --> 01:04:44.715
They have multiple leaders.
01:04:44.864 --> 01:04:49.394
I don't mean an a, an elected not a politician.
01:04:49.554 --> 01:04:50.045
Yeah.
01:04:50.474 --> 01:04:53.025
Who are the people that the people are following?
01:04:53.534 --> 01:04:54.014
I see.
01:04:54.045 --> 01:04:54.434
Okay.
01:04:55.364 --> 01:04:57.675
People always ask me how do you find leaders in the community?
01:04:57.860 --> 01:04:58.934
It's not all that difficult.
01:04:58.940 --> 01:05:00.284
You just look at how they're organized.
01:05:01.514 --> 01:05:04.844
They have associations, they have co-ops, they have schools, they have churches.
01:05:04.844 --> 01:05:07.125
Who's leading those, organizations,
01:05:07.125 --> 01:05:07.755
those associations.
01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:11.695
It might not be working well, but it's, it is doing something and working somewhat.
01:05:11.985 --> 01:05:13.934
And who's following who?
01:05:14.244 --> 01:05:14.735
Yeah.
01:05:15.195 --> 01:05:16.905
Are you a leader if no one's following you?
01:05:17.614 --> 01:05:17.815
Yeah.
01:05:19.304 --> 01:05:22.364
So people are following people in the communities and we gather.
01:05:22.364 --> 01:05:22.454
And
01:05:22.735 --> 01:05:23.775
that's who invites you?
01:05:23.925 --> 01:05:24.195
Yep.
01:05:24.585 --> 01:05:25.965
That's who you come and talk to.
01:05:26.355 --> 01:05:26.565
Yep.
01:05:26.565 --> 01:05:28.724
You don't talk to the whole 1500 people.
01:05:28.724 --> 01:05:31.755
You talk to that, those three to five people or whatever.
01:05:31.755 --> 01:05:33.494
It's Yeah, usually.
01:05:34.094 --> 01:05:34.244
Yeah.
01:05:34.250 --> 01:05:36.224
Then they come and they say, I get it.
01:05:36.764 --> 01:05:38.204
Development is up to us.
01:05:38.684 --> 01:05:45.284
They seem to have helped other people, other communities they've, seemed to been trans, trans.
01:05:46.275 --> 01:05:47.954
transformed and Right.
01:05:48.045 --> 01:05:50.175
That's what what we, would like that.
01:05:50.175 --> 01:05:52.184
So I write you a letter and say, I get it.
01:05:52.489 --> 01:05:53.355
We like you back.
01:05:53.355 --> 01:05:55.275
Come on let's, get started
01:05:55.275 --> 01:05:55.574
here.
01:05:55.934 --> 01:06:09.135
But help me there's a nuanced difference to that too, is that there is a group of leaders historically and there's a subset of communities where we've, worked where they're like, they'll say anything that they need to say to get us to come back and do projects.
01:06:09.704 --> 01:06:11.474
And that's why I can't show up.
01:06:11.505 --> 01:06:20.295
That's why our Kenyan staff, our Guatemala, Ken staff, they can see through that veil of culture and understand most of the time whether or not leaders are sincere or not.
01:06:20.775 --> 01:06:23.864
But the other thing that, the nuance here, that's really, fascinating.
01:06:23.925 --> 01:06:24.195
That's
01:06:24.195 --> 01:06:24.465
right.
01:06:24.554 --> 01:06:26.804
That is in and of itself a nuance.
01:06:26.835 --> 01:06:27.224
Okay.
01:06:27.434 --> 01:06:28.605
That's really good.
01:06:28.965 --> 01:06:33.795
The other thing is, and that took you a while to figure that out cause you didn't have locals at first Okay.
01:06:33.795 --> 01:06:34.355
That were in those
01:06:34.355 --> 01:06:34.514
things.
01:06:34.514 --> 01:06:36.465
Just a lot of frogs to find a few s for sure.
01:06:38.175 --> 01:06:43.065
But the other thing is, that they they are so grateful.
01:06:44.744 --> 01:06:47.264
In many cases to being asked.
01:06:48.405 --> 01:06:54.795
So when we walk into a community, Charlie, we're not saying, Hey, we could we can look around and in 10 minutes figure out what the needs are.
01:06:55.275 --> 01:06:57.284
They're not all that different from community to community.
01:06:58.125 --> 01:06:59.775
But the conversation doesn't start there.
01:06:59.775 --> 01:07:02.625
The conversation starts with, Hey, what do you love about your community?
01:07:02.630 --> 01:07:03.614
Why do you love living here?
01:07:03.614 --> 01:07:06.525
If I was gonna move to your community, tell me why I should wanna live here.
01:07:08.025 --> 01:07:15.405
And now they start talking about all the positive things and we ask them, Hey, what are the skills that your people do in your community really well?
01:07:15.405 --> 01:07:18.155
What do you do so well that you could teach others to go do it?
01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:28.199
What are the, assets, the giftings, the things inside your community that other communities don't have, that you have that are really beneficial to you?
01:07:29.070 --> 01:07:32.849
And then what are some assets that exist outside your community that you can access?
01:07:32.849 --> 01:07:36.960
They're not inside your community, they're outside your community that you can access that help your community.
01:07:37.380 --> 01:07:42.449
And when you do all of that I'm, taking hours of discussion and distilling it down to 30 seconds.
01:07:42.599 --> 01:07:42.659
Yeah.
01:07:42.659 --> 01:07:44.550
When you do that, you have an asset map.
01:07:45.449 --> 01:07:54.179
You understand what they love about their community, what they do really well, what giftings and skills and assets exist inside their community and just outside their community.
01:07:54.389 --> 01:08:00.599
And so when they come back to you with what their needs are, you can point back to all these positive things in the community.
01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:00.719
That's
01:08:01.090 --> 01:08:01.650
the next step.
01:08:01.739 --> 01:08:01.829
Yeah.
01:08:01.829 --> 01:08:02.369
It's interesting.
01:08:02.375 --> 01:08:04.769
You don't start with what does your community need?
01:08:04.949 --> 01:08:05.219
Never.
01:08:05.219 --> 01:08:07.440
You say first, why is your community great?
01:08:07.710 --> 01:08:11.969
And then what, assets are in this community?
01:08:12.179 --> 01:08:14.369
What can you do, what skills, whatever.
01:08:14.949 --> 01:08:17.310
And then you finally get to the next step, which is what are your
01:08:17.310 --> 01:08:17.760
needs?
01:08:18.149 --> 01:08:22.619
And then you say if, those what do they think their needs are, right?
01:08:22.859 --> 01:08:35.430
If you have these needs, but you have all of these great positive things going on in your community, how can both of these be true Because, so we then when, we do this assessment
01:08:35.435 --> 01:08:45.869
process, you kind looks, when you lay that out, you showed them, it's a lot of their assets and what they have these, all these assets and resources and then these needs.
01:08:45.869 --> 01:08:50.369
How do you say why is this, happening?
01:08:51.484 --> 01:08:52.229
What do they, do
01:08:55.109 --> 01:08:56.130
It, depends on the community.
01:08:56.130 --> 01:09:11.399
Of course, I'm painting with a kind of a broad brush here, but one of the things they do is they are thrown back in their chair and they sign and say, that's a good question, What do we need to tell this organization so that they'll come and work with us?
01:09:12.390 --> 01:09:17.970
So it's and another thing is, that they'll say where it really is great is where they come and go.
01:09:19.824 --> 01:09:21.659
We're, not sitting around doing nothing.
01:09:22.439 --> 01:09:29.609
We just don't have the capacity to do a lot quickly, but we've already done these things to go solve these problems.
01:09:29.699 --> 01:09:31.920
And oh, okay, our way, we're walking on our way.
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:34.050
Those are the communities that we wanna come alongside.
01:09:34.829 --> 01:09:39.210
But what we do is when we have this assessment process, if it's, 10, but there are some
01:09:39.210 --> 01:09:44.760
communities that you go to and you lay that out and they go the reason, yeah, we do have all this.
01:09:45.779 --> 01:09:46.109
Okay.
01:09:46.109 --> 01:09:52.920
These assets, as you call them, resources, but we do have these needs and we're just overwhelmed by the needs we really can't do nothing.
01:09:52.920 --> 01:09:54.449
We need somebody to come in and help us.
01:09:55.020 --> 01:09:55.380
Yeah.
01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:55.949
And so
01:09:55.949 --> 01:09:58.500
then, and that's one of those that you go, we're not gonna help you.
01:09:59.340 --> 01:10:02.729
No, We're gonna say, so that, that's what's called an empowerment analysis.
01:10:02.729 --> 01:10:03.909
That's the, okay.
01:10:03.909 --> 01:10:06.689
That's kinda the last step in our assessment process.
01:10:08.250 --> 01:10:13.829
When you think about empowerment, that's an overused, poorly defined word in as it relates to helping the poor.
01:10:13.829 --> 01:10:15.600
Everybody wants to empower the poor, but what does that
01:10:15.630 --> 01:10:15.750
mean?
01:10:15.750 --> 01:10:16.110
Lemme tell you.
01:10:16.115 --> 01:10:19.260
It's a marketing word and you marketing guys love words like that.
01:10:19.409 --> 01:10:19.800
Yeah.
01:10:20.100 --> 01:10:22.229
I don't wanna be characterized as a marketing guy anymore,
01:10:25.890 --> 01:10:28.319
you can't run from your resume, Kurt.
01:10:28.319 --> 01:10:28.439
That's
01:10:28.909 --> 01:10:29.069
true.
01:10:29.069 --> 01:10:29.609
That's true.
01:10:29.670 --> 01:10:30.720
Nor should I?
01:10:31.109 --> 01:10:35.550
But you can't empower somebody against their will.
01:10:36.869 --> 01:10:40.350
People need to claim, need to accept, need to embrace their empowerment.
01:10:40.350 --> 01:10:44.399
You can put'em in an empowering environment, but they need to claim it.
01:10:45.149 --> 01:10:55.560
And so what we go through is on our assessment process takes hours if not days to go through at the end of it, it ultimately comes down to they have things they want to go solve.
01:10:56.369 --> 01:11:01.979
And so we ask the leaders, look, we don't want you to answer this as a group, we want you to answer this question individually.
01:11:02.895 --> 01:11:10.095
And that is, if you could change one thing in your community today, what's the one thing that you would want to change?
01:11:10.574 --> 01:11:18.704
What is one thing that you don't want your children or your grandchildren to struggle with that you currently struggle with, but you only can choose one?
01:11:19.425 --> 01:11:19.664
Wow.
01:11:19.670 --> 01:11:21.015
We ask them to keep that quiet.
01:11:22.244 --> 01:11:25.005
And then when everyone's completed that we have them share it.
01:11:25.005 --> 01:11:29.414
And they may have five or six different one things they want to go do, but then it's incumbent upon them.
01:11:29.420 --> 01:11:33.585
We say, okay, when you guys, as the leaders of your community, you only can choose one.
01:11:33.585 --> 01:11:38.085
So you guys need to talk to each other for a bit and just choose one.
01:11:38.265 --> 01:11:39.045
And they choose one.
01:11:40.154 --> 01:11:41.145
And let's say it's water.
01:11:42.494 --> 01:11:45.494
And we'll say, okay what's the solution to your water problem?
01:11:45.765 --> 01:11:51.944
And they may say we have this river that runs through our community, but it's seasonal so it dries up.
01:11:52.005 --> 01:11:54.555
And when that dries up there is no water.
01:11:54.555 --> 01:11:56.444
So we need to go drill a borehole.
01:11:57.854 --> 01:12:02.354
With a pump and a tank to pull water out from underground and have water for our community.
01:12:02.385 --> 01:12:04.234
And so let's just say that's their solution.
01:12:04.239 --> 01:12:07.185
That's their view of their problem, their solution to their problem.
01:12:08.024 --> 01:12:14.385
We say, okay, and we draw three concentric circles on a big piece of paper.
01:12:15.404 --> 01:12:23.984
And in the center circle, center of this circle is the amount of the solution, the percentage of this solution that the community can do on its own.
01:12:24.045 --> 01:12:26.895
How much of this water problem can you solve on your own?
01:12:27.524 --> 01:12:31.904
The middle circle is how much of that problem do you need help from outsiders?
01:12:32.564 --> 01:12:39.194
And the outer band of this, these three concentric circles, is the percentage of the solution that's beyond anyone's control.
01:12:39.465 --> 01:12:49.005
If it doesn't rain, there's no water, the aquifers dry up, whatever it might be, and then we give them 10 seeds, 10 coffee beans, 10 stones, whatever it's called, a 10.
01:12:50.055 --> 01:12:52.545
And I didn't come up with that, by the way, a guy named Robbie Jaren.
01:12:52.545 --> 01:12:53.755
Did we?
01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:54.795
We used it for years.
01:12:55.335 --> 01:12:59.435
But then we say, Hey, these 10 seeds represent a hundred percent of this water solution.
01:13:00.225 --> 01:13:07.185
We need you to distribute these 10 seeds across these three bands to tell us what percentage of this problem can the community solve on its own?
01:13:07.189 --> 01:13:11.505
How much help do you need from outsiders and how much do you see as outside of anyone's control?
01:13:12.314 --> 01:13:24.675
And then the community has, the leaders have a problem, Charlie, because if they put too many, if they put too many seeds in the center circle, we may not help them because they can do too much on their own, right?
01:13:24.824 --> 01:13:32.024
If we put too many, if they put too many seeds in the middle band, they're gonna think that, oh, this organization might think that we're helpless and they're not gonna help us.
01:13:32.805 --> 01:13:36.404
And if we put too many on the outer band, they're gonna think we're hopeless and they're not gonna help us.
01:13:36.524 --> 01:13:38.744
So they're moving these seeds.
01:13:38.750 --> 01:13:39.885
It's a fascinating thing.
01:13:39.885 --> 01:13:45.524
It takes'em 20, 30 minutes to work through this until they are trying to find the right way, the right answer.
01:13:46.640 --> 01:13:47.130
and I get it.
01:13:47.670 --> 01:13:48.479
They need water.
01:13:48.569 --> 01:13:49.380
It's heartbreaking.
01:13:49.380 --> 01:13:50.220
They need water.
01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:53.579
They're walking hours every day for dirty water.
01:13:53.579 --> 01:13:54.239
They're getting sick.
01:13:54.449 --> 01:13:55.619
It's a heartbreaking thing.
01:13:57.029 --> 01:13:59.501
So finally, they land on Anw answer.
01:13:59.506 --> 01:14:12.359
And so the, for the cases of this, for the purposes of this kind of conversation, I'll say they put 30% say in the center circle, they put 60% on the, in the middle and, 10% in the one seed in the outer band.
01:14:13.229 --> 01:14:19.140
And then they step back and, they say okay, we think this is the right answer.
01:14:20.430 --> 01:14:23.939
But the answer, the next question isn't when do we start?
01:14:24.899 --> 01:14:38.970
The next question is, if you can do 30% of this solution on your own, what are you waiting for And are you looking for someone to come in with 60% from outside before you go do your 30%?
01:14:39.914 --> 01:14:43.454
And there's this old story that's been tried and true for years.
01:14:43.784 --> 01:14:58.274
If there are, if there're if I'm in a Kenyan community and I said if two people in your community are trying to make their way to Nairobi and they know that I'm going to Nairobi and one of'em is walking on the road to Nairobi and another one is sitting in their home waiting for me to pick them up, who am I gonna give a ride to?
01:14:59.024 --> 01:15:00.494
Why are you gonna give a ride to the guy walking?
01:15:00.765 --> 01:15:01.305
Exactly.
01:15:01.814 --> 01:15:04.935
So what are you doing to go solve this 30% on your own?
01:15:05.475 --> 01:15:07.994
And then they say, sometimes they say, oh, this is what we're doing.
01:15:07.994 --> 01:15:08.685
We're doing this.
01:15:08.685 --> 01:15:12.975
We did a hydrogeological survey, we're raising money, we're doing things great.
01:15:12.975 --> 01:15:13.994
That's what we want to hear.
01:15:14.744 --> 01:15:17.055
But then we ask them who are these outsiders
01:15:17.055 --> 01:15:19.335
that you, what a second, what else do you hear about that?
01:15:19.335 --> 01:15:20.774
Give me another answer that you hear.
01:15:23.805 --> 01:15:31.364
Another, answer is we don't this is a bad answer, but we don't have the resources to do the 30%.
01:15:31.395 --> 01:15:33.704
We need somebody to come in first with the 60 before.
01:15:33.854 --> 01:15:34.335
Ah, there you go.
01:15:34.364 --> 01:15:34.845
Okay.
01:15:34.935 --> 01:15:35.175
Yeah.
01:15:35.175 --> 01:15:46.845
People, they'll say, we can do soft contribution, unskilled labor, nothing material, but we need people to give us the materials to go solve this problem if it's a clinic or a school building or whatever.
01:15:47.354 --> 01:15:51.614
So there's, different answers, but the it's, not about solving the problem yet.
01:15:52.364 --> 01:15:56.744
It's about their perspectives on solving the problem, because who are the outsiders?
01:15:57.375 --> 01:16:02.475
Are we the outsider that you're waiting for us to come in and do this 60% before you do your 30?
01:16:03.494 --> 01:16:07.875
We know there are a bunch of older organizations in Kenya that are solving the water problem.
01:16:08.265 --> 01:16:12.194
What's your governance governor, your government's role in helping you solve this problem?
01:16:12.734 --> 01:16:22.994
And at the end of the day, as leaders in your community, what are you doing to find these outsiders that can come in and help you solve the resource problem that you currently have?
01:16:22.994 --> 01:16:26.564
And they ultimately realize that all the seeds are in the center.
01:16:27.045 --> 01:16:28.425
It's their responsibility.
01:16:29.114 --> 01:16:31.994
They can't be looking to outsiders to solve their problem.
01:16:33.074 --> 01:16:39.194
And when they get that, when they have that realization, we're happy to come along and help them go further faster.
01:16:40.185 --> 01:16:46.185
But when they come to us with a list of projects that we want, they want us to go do we just say, thank you.
01:16:46.185 --> 01:16:48.614
But that's just not, that's just not gonna solve it.
01:16:48.654 --> 01:16:49.034
How do they
01:16:49.784 --> 01:16:55.484
How, long does it take for them to realize, oh my God, all the seeds are in the center.
01:16:55.784 --> 01:16:58.484
There is 10% that's outside of our control.
01:16:59.055 --> 01:16:59.444
Okay.
01:16:59.444 --> 01:17:01.034
But the 90.
01:17:01.965 --> 01:17:04.935
All those seeds, those nine seeds are in the center.
01:17:05.175 --> 01:17:05.534
Yeah.
01:17:06.074 --> 01:17:07.215
How long does it take for
01:17:07.215 --> 01:17:09.795
them to some, communities never get that.
01:17:09.944 --> 01:17:10.515
Some leaders right.
01:17:10.545 --> 01:17:12.255
With your communities you won't work with.
01:17:12.675 --> 01:17:16.484
But communities that they get it at that point and when Right then
01:17:16.664 --> 01:17:17.595
in that discussion.
01:17:17.774 --> 01:17:17.895
Yeah.
01:17:17.899 --> 01:17:18.314
They get it.
01:17:18.765 --> 01:17:22.185
So here's a real life example that I have in the book.
01:17:22.755 --> 01:17:24.074
It, would happen in Honduras.
01:17:24.585 --> 01:17:32.175
We were invited into Honduras by another organization to try to help them understand how we did what we did so they could go and implement it on their own.
01:17:32.864 --> 01:17:51.375
And we were in this community at the top of a mountain and it was a 20 to 30 minute drive up these switchback mountains longer than it actually, but to back roads, really bad roads to the top of this mountain where they're growing coffee or they're growing, they're doing dairy, they're farmers, they're doing a lot of things up there.
01:17:51.645 --> 01:17:52.095
They got
01:17:52.095 --> 01:17:53.024
stuff to sell.
01:17:53.265 --> 01:17:53.654
Huh?
01:17:53.954 --> 01:17:54.854
They got stuff to
01:17:54.854 --> 01:17:55.215
sell.
01:17:55.234 --> 01:17:55.675
They do.
01:17:55.675 --> 01:17:56.715
And they can't get to market.
01:17:56.835 --> 01:18:03.885
And so when we went through this whole process with them, It came down to the empowerment analysis of how much they can do on their own and so forth.
01:18:05.085 --> 01:18:07.364
The problem that they identified were their roads.
01:18:07.425 --> 01:18:10.545
We need, our number one priority is to fix our roads.
01:18:11.414 --> 01:18:16.185
And we don't do roads, I just, we can't do, we don't have heavy equipment, whatever.
01:18:16.395 --> 01:18:17.505
But no you're
01:18:17.505 --> 01:18:18.645
a school specialist.
01:18:19.104 --> 01:18:19.524
The,
01:18:19.725 --> 01:18:22.574
point is that how much of this can you do on your own?
01:18:22.574 --> 01:18:23.864
How much do you need help from outsiders?
01:18:24.645 --> 01:18:30.614
And they came back with, I think 40% in the center, 60% in the middle, and nothing was beyond their control.
01:18:31.755 --> 01:18:33.885
And we gave'em the question of what are you waiting for?
01:18:34.784 --> 01:18:37.005
And who are these outsiders that you're looking for?
01:18:37.005 --> 01:18:38.354
Are you looking to us to do that?
01:18:38.354 --> 01:18:40.364
There are plenty of outsiders that can go help you to do that.
01:18:41.354 --> 01:18:45.314
And I revisited that community two months later and they had their roads fixed.
01:18:45.854 --> 01:18:46.335
Wow.
01:18:46.364 --> 01:18:49.545
And when I ask them guys, this road's amazing.
01:18:49.965 --> 01:18:50.835
How did this happen?
01:18:51.675 --> 01:18:54.885
They said it happened because you changed how we thought.
01:18:55.064 --> 01:18:56.854
We never thought.
01:18:57.750 --> 01:19:02.760
That we were in control of finding outsiders to come in and help, us with this road.
01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:06.869
And we realized that the outsider that needed to help us was the government, the mayor.
01:19:06.869 --> 01:19:13.439
So we went down the mountain, 200 of us, and we descended on the mayor's office and we said, we want our road fixed.
01:19:13.800 --> 01:19:24.300
If you hadn't, if you give us 60% heavy equipment, some fuel, we'll hire the drivers, we'll provide the skilled labor and we'll fix the road on our own if you can give us a bit of help.
01:19:24.510 --> 01:19:28.439
And in two months they had the road fixed, just cuz they started thinking different.
01:19:28.439 --> 01:19:33.630
So how were they thinking before we're waiting for the government to, our government is worthless.
01:19:33.630 --> 01:19:35.100
Our government does nothing for us.
01:19:35.100 --> 01:19:38.710
Our government we can't do this on, we don't have heavy equipment.
01:19:38.715 --> 01:19:40.710
We need somebody to come in and do this for us,
01:19:41.430 --> 01:19:41.819
it seems.
01:19:41.819 --> 01:19:48.720
So they were having the conversation and the conversation with the government in their head and, the government were saying no.
01:19:48.720 --> 01:19:49.859
So that was the end of it.
01:19:50.159 --> 01:19:50.220
They
01:19:50.500 --> 01:19:51.899
didn't do anything they're helpless.
01:19:52.199 --> 01:19:52.680
They were just, yeah.
01:19:52.680 --> 01:19:53.140
They didn't do it.
01:19:53.140 --> 01:19:53.500
But.
01:19:54.500 --> 01:19:58.380
It, makes it sound, when I say it this way, it sounds like it's it's just common sense and it's so easy.
01:19:58.649 --> 01:20:09.720
It takes time and it, you gotta build trust with the community so they listen and you gotta challenge them a bit, but they gotta understand that they can, that they're that, it's not hopeless.
01:20:10.170 --> 01:20:15.060
And that there are ways of you as leaders to be effective leaders for your community.
01:20:15.119 --> 01:20:20.609
Not being self-interested in your own wellbeing, but really having a vision for your community.
01:20:21.090 --> 01:20:25.409
Getting together as a group and figuring out, Hey, how are we gonna go solve this problem on our own Because this
01:20:25.779 --> 01:20:28.079
you make it sound, lemme hear what I'm hearing.
01:20:28.739 --> 01:20:31.680
Not you make it us, you make it sound like.
01:20:32.354 --> 01:20:38.145
Four 10 Bridge is a high level management consulting organization.
01:20:38.414 --> 01:20:38.864
Okay.
01:20:39.074 --> 01:20:39.194
Yeah.
01:20:39.194 --> 01:20:39.944
I'm not that smart.
01:20:40.215 --> 01:20:41.444
There's, four 10 Bridge.
01:20:41.505 --> 01:20:44.864
And who is in the second circle that you're talking about there?
01:20:44.895 --> 01:20:45.345
Okay.
01:20:45.375 --> 01:20:47.145
In other words, resources, who could help?
01:20:47.564 --> 01:20:55.725
How does beyond this methodology and beyond the most important thing, which is changing the way that they think, okay.
01:20:56.055 --> 01:20:58.814
That development is really something they do.
01:20:58.814 --> 01:21:00.585
Not everybody else does right?
01:21:01.064 --> 01:21:05.984
What do you, is there anything that you guys do besides what you just described?
01:21:07.755 --> 01:21:08.055
Yeah.
01:21:08.210 --> 01:21:15.404
You literally ever help, Are you one of those resources come with, come beside them and work with them in their development?
01:21:15.404 --> 01:21:15.944
Absolutely.
01:21:16.064 --> 01:21:16.635
Absolutely.
01:21:16.635 --> 01:21:25.395
We are, when we partner with the community, we're walking with that leadership council for eight to 13 years is the longest the long time.
01:21:25.784 --> 01:21:29.774
So you putting money into it or you into it when they come.
01:21:29.774 --> 01:21:37.904
Again, that empowerment analysis that I explained, This doesn't happen tactically, but basically it's the methodology for every project that we would do.
01:21:39.704 --> 01:21:55.305
Look, we have this dilapidated school building, and if I had gone to Bali with that first school building in Uganda and had this methodology, I would've asked how much I would've asked the community, how much of this school building could you do on your own?
01:21:55.335 --> 01:21:58.965
I never asked that I was coming in to save the day, I was coming in to build it on my own, right?
01:21:59.414 --> 01:22:05.305
So in everything we asked them what are you gonna do to contribute to this problem or this solution?
01:22:05.835 --> 01:22:16.364
And over time they should be contributing more and more to their solutions than we are to the point where ultimately they're doing more to solve their own problems than we are.
01:22:16.364 --> 01:22:18.074
We're just helping them go further, faster.
01:22:18.975 --> 01:22:33.104
But at the end of the day when we undermine their def their definition of development, which needs to be what they do, not what outsiders do, if we undermine that by coming in and doing for them, not with them.
01:22:33.524 --> 01:22:36.944
We'll erode the development model and will ultimately fail.
01:22:37.095 --> 01:22:40.154
So we're always, we're saying no way more than we say.
01:22:40.154 --> 01:22:40.694
Yes.
01:22:41.354 --> 01:22:49.904
We want to be encouraging to them and and we want to challenge them to mobilize their community to come out and, solve their own problems.
01:22:50.265 --> 01:22:50.895
And it's not just,
01:22:51.404 --> 01:22:57.074
you told me about, you told me about a success they need a what you told me about a success.
01:22:57.284 --> 01:22:57.404
Yeah.
01:22:57.404 --> 01:22:59.175
Which was these people at the top of the mountain.
01:22:59.175 --> 01:22:59.564
Where was that?
01:22:59.564 --> 01:23:00.255
In Guatemala.
01:23:00.375 --> 01:23:00.944
Honduras.
01:23:01.244 --> 01:23:01.904
Honduras, okay.
01:23:02.324 --> 01:23:11.414
And have you ever had what was a success or appeared to be on the road to success?
01:23:11.595 --> 01:23:12.045
Okay.
01:23:12.885 --> 01:23:13.095
Yet
01:23:13.095 --> 01:23:14.234
they didn't succeed.
01:23:14.505 --> 01:23:14.925
Oh yeah.
01:23:15.135 --> 01:23:15.944
More than I would like.
01:23:15.944 --> 01:23:16.505
How could,
01:23:16.635 --> 01:23:21.494
because in order to be on the road to success, I would think that You've changed my thinking.
01:23:22.154 --> 01:23:22.635
Okay.
01:23:23.175 --> 01:23:24.854
And you've come alongside me and all that.
01:23:24.859 --> 01:23:27.585
How does something like that not succeed?
01:23:32.255 --> 01:23:33.885
A couple reasons, few reasons.
01:23:34.875 --> 01:23:41.564
This falls in the category of it's good to graduate a community and it's bad to exit a community.
01:23:41.564 --> 01:23:57.164
So we call these exits and an exit happens when leaders become corrupt or there's a change in leadership and they, want, they're more interested in their personal benefit than the benefit to the community.
01:23:57.225 --> 01:24:06.045
That's one way, but really the biggest way that it fails and we have to exit is because of the west, where become a because of whom?
01:24:06.194 --> 01:24:08.204
Because of the west, because of us.
01:24:09.225 --> 01:24:24.465
So our greatest risk to our develop, our self-development model is is the west American churches, American other, organizations coming in and working in our community where they undermine the self-development effort.
01:24:24.465 --> 01:24:25.845
They come in and do four people.
01:24:26.265 --> 01:24:27.645
As opposed to with people.
01:24:28.005 --> 01:24:31.454
So they come in with the original model that you say doesn't
01:24:31.454 --> 01:24:39.135
work, and it undermines the community's desire to go solve their own problem because it's other organization's now, solving it for us.
01:24:39.914 --> 01:24:44.864
And so that's, or we've had some cases where church partners, how do they, how
01:24:44.895 --> 01:24:48.435
does a church, how does a church find one of your communities?
01:24:48.675 --> 01:24:55.725
Or how does the west find one of your communities or another ngo and then start applying their model?
01:24:55.755 --> 01:24:56.654
How do they find it?
01:24:56.654 --> 01:25:04.185
If you're so en, tightly embedded in in entwined in that solution, you follow me and have those relationships.
01:25:04.454 --> 01:25:05.324
You speak very much.
01:25:05.324 --> 01:25:07.725
You have a whole chapter on relationships in your book.
01:25:08.324 --> 01:25:08.835
Okay.
01:25:09.045 --> 01:25:10.875
So you have those relationships.
01:25:11.685 --> 01:25:14.774
And then yet you're saying someone can come in from the.
01:25:15.614 --> 01:25:19.005
And start eating away at again how
01:25:19.005 --> 01:25:20.234
I think, yeah.
01:25:20.625 --> 01:25:25.604
So there's no silver bullet here, but it's, a bunch of different ways that happens.
01:25:25.935 --> 01:25:43.095
One is, we work best in, we work in rural communities, and if we see other organizations already working in this community that we've been invited into, we're gonna go vet those organizations to see if we can be successful in this community with them already there.
01:25:44.895 --> 01:25:51.135
If they're already in an unhealthy development model we're, swimming upstream and they're,
01:25:51.140 --> 01:25:59.295
so that's evaluating the competition in effect, I'm using the word com using secular terms here, or I shouldn't say that I'm, using business terms.
01:26:00.284 --> 01:26:02.295
But if the competition, if the way.
01:26:02.954 --> 01:26:06.824
That things are being done in that area are by the old model.
01:26:07.904 --> 01:26:08.984
And there's some really, and you're,
01:26:08.984 --> 01:26:11.744
swimming upstream trying to put in a new way of thinking.
01:26:11.954 --> 01:26:16.994
And there's really large organizations that are working in communities that we haven't been able to be successful in.
01:26:17.104 --> 01:26:17.595
Yeah.
01:26:17.805 --> 01:26:20.310
Cause they, they talk a good game.
01:26:20.654 --> 01:26:26.954
They've all read the books, but they're not actually executing with discipline on not doing four people.
01:26:27.885 --> 01:26:29.864
Or they are doing four people not with people.
01:26:29.954 --> 01:26:31.034
So that's, one way.
01:26:31.034 --> 01:26:33.284
The other way is, that organizations just show up.
01:26:33.314 --> 01:26:35.625
I don't know how they find out about these communities.
01:26:35.625 --> 01:26:37.784
Somebody knows somebody in a church or something, I don't know.
01:26:37.784 --> 01:26:46.935
And all of a sudden they show up and they start they, want to have leaders come together, like we do, but they start paying the leaders together.
01:26:48.015 --> 01:26:51.074
So we'll pay leaders to come to a meeting.
01:26:52.034 --> 01:26:56.774
As soon as that happens, four 10 Bridge isn't paying anybody anything to come to a meeting.
01:26:56.774 --> 01:26:58.305
We're you're the leaders of your community.
01:26:59.505 --> 01:27:00.795
You should be leading your community.
01:27:00.795 --> 01:27:14.324
But when another organization comes in and all starts un and un, oftentimes unwittingly, but still they're not thinking very deeply about it, in my view, when they, start doing things that are unhealthy, it very quickly undermines what we're trying to do.
01:27:14.805 --> 01:27:35.414
And then the last one is, that we're sending we partner with organizations corporations, but mostly churches, and we're sending people on short-term trips to engage with people and maybe doing some training or there's just a short-term mission trip experience that is a very positive thing if done, right.
01:27:36.074 --> 01:27:48.524
But what happens is a church potentially, and we've had this happen in the past, it's had a longer relationship with a community or had a com relationship with a community sending their people for a number of years, and they start thinking they have a better idea of what's going on than we do.
01:27:49.395 --> 01:27:55.755
And they come in and have hired one of the leaders as their international missionary to represent their church in this community.
01:27:56.414 --> 01:28:02.595
And then there's jealousy that's created, and there's this division that's created and it very quickly becomes unraveled.
01:28:02.625 --> 01:28:06.795
So there's a, there's an assortment of reasons why it happens but it happens.
01:28:06.795 --> 01:28:10.755
And it's oftentimes because of the west, not necessarily because of what's happening in the community,
01:28:11.385 --> 01:28:19.604
but there is also the deal with some of these leaders, as these communities begin to develop and do well, they start to prosper.
01:28:20.265 --> 01:28:21.345
They become corrupt.
01:28:23.744 --> 01:28:34.154
They can, if there's a, if there's a change in leadership a leader passes away and other leaders come in there's, this is a long multi-year.
01:28:34.215 --> 01:28:35.295
Yeah, they get it.
01:28:35.354 --> 01:28:36.284
Leadership changes.
01:28:38.654 --> 01:28:43.274
Yeah and we see the corruption in the United States government, right?
01:28:43.670 --> 01:28:44.475
It's everywhere.
01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:45.024
Everywhere.
01:28:45.029 --> 01:28:46.005
I, it's everywhere.
01:28:46.154 --> 01:28:51.465
How do you do gimme an an, underground example is knowing what you know now.
01:28:53.310 --> 01:29:08.010
When you went to Uganda that first time and you're laying those bricks, watching those guys all sitting around and the community guys all sitting around not helping at all what would you do if you found yourself in that situation again?
01:29:08.250 --> 01:29:10.590
I'd leave just
01:29:10.590 --> 01:29:11.010
like that.
01:29:11.310 --> 01:29:11.819
I'd leave.
01:29:12.029 --> 01:29:13.409
You wouldn't say anything to them.
01:29:13.439 --> 01:29:14.430
You would just leave.
01:29:15.390 --> 01:29:17.984
First place I wouldn't just show up in a community anymore.
01:29:18.539 --> 01:29:19.680
Hey, I'm here to build a building.
01:29:21.149 --> 01:29:22.140
I know that's true.
01:29:22.265 --> 01:29:26.279
That's that being invited is a, big first step, right?
01:29:26.284 --> 01:29:28.050
So there's again, there's not just one thing.
01:29:28.079 --> 01:29:30.899
So there's this process, this methodology, you call it, that we go through.
01:29:31.604 --> 01:29:40.545
But if we have a team of people from a church partner call it on the ground, and they, and this has happened where they're coming in the community to go help the community with a project.
01:29:40.604 --> 01:29:46.425
Our teams four 10 bridge teams are engaging in what's already going on in the community.
01:29:47.055 --> 01:29:50.024
We're not creating things for them necessarily to go do.
01:29:50.385 --> 01:30:00.375
So there's a project underway, let's say, and the team shows up to go start building a school building and nobody from the community is there to build the commu, the school building with this team.
01:30:00.675 --> 01:30:03.255
We'll put'em on the bus and we'll go find them something else to go do.
01:30:04.185 --> 01:30:06.465
That's great because we can't do four people.
01:30:06.614 --> 01:30:07.095
How have you
01:30:07.095 --> 01:30:18.255
done, how have how, effective have you been with those leaders that you have chosen to represent you in those different countries?
01:30:18.944 --> 01:30:20.984
That must have been a whole different thing.
01:30:21.074 --> 01:30:22.574
A, a new learning there
01:30:22.579 --> 01:30:22.904
too.
01:30:23.354 --> 01:30:23.564
Yeah.
01:30:23.810 --> 01:30:24.494
I think the best
01:30:24.494 --> 01:30:27.045
thing because you're paying those people to do that work.
01:30:27.255 --> 01:30:28.335
Oh, you're talking about our staff?
01:30:28.965 --> 01:30:29.744
I'm talking about.
01:30:29.750 --> 01:30:29.984
Yeah.
01:30:29.984 --> 01:30:37.965
So I'm the representative for four 10 Bridge in Guatemala or in Honduras or Rwanda or wherever.
01:30:37.970 --> 01:30:38.444
It's right.
01:30:39.854 --> 01:30:40.185
Yeah.
01:30:41.595 --> 01:31:00.345
The way I say that is we hire Kenyans to help Kenyans and their, Kenyon worldview of way of the way an NGO works isn't the four 10 bridge way that we work, right?
01:31:00.345 --> 01:31:06.225
So we have to retrain and re orient them on what we will do, what we won't do.
01:31:06.225 --> 01:31:08.324
And so there's a lot of training and orientation and.
01:31:09.104 --> 01:31:15.614
And education that needs to happen and said, look but you, but again I think
01:31:15.635 --> 01:31:19.725
what's, and a lot of continuing court com communication and involvement,
01:31:20.314 --> 01:31:20.475
Yes.
01:31:20.534 --> 01:31:21.274
It's constant.
01:31:21.465 --> 01:31:22.194
It's constant.
01:31:23.414 --> 01:31:24.645
Of course I'm in the middle of that.
01:31:24.649 --> 01:31:29.744
In other words, if I'm if I'm hanging around in that culture, eventually I'll be converted
01:31:29.774 --> 01:31:30.404
to the culture.
01:31:30.675 --> 01:31:30.824
Yeah.
01:31:30.824 --> 01:31:38.595
But I think what's interesting to understand is, that, again, I'm painting with a broad brush here, but they don't like the old model either.
01:31:39.345 --> 01:31:39.494
Okay.
01:31:39.494 --> 01:31:42.015
Cause they don't like the west.
01:31:42.015 --> 01:31:42.074
So
01:31:42.324 --> 01:31:45.284
you're looking for, you're looking for people who are basically sold out.
01:31:46.215 --> 01:31:54.314
And so at the, I know this is right, I'm in, at the end of the book I, did a little thing which I thought was, I don't know, just an idea.
01:31:54.314 --> 01:32:00.885
But I said to all of our in-country staff, I didn't ask our US staff any of this, just all our in-country staff.
01:32:00.885 --> 01:32:06.524
I said, look if you were able to come over here and sit in a room full of.
01:32:07.574 --> 01:32:15.675
High capacity donors, people who had the capacity to help, they had the desire to help, and they really wanted to help.
01:32:16.064 --> 01:32:17.204
They really wanted to help.
01:32:17.234 --> 01:32:17.835
That's the title.
01:32:18.104 --> 01:32:25.515
If you really want to help and you could say anything to them that you wanted, how would you finish these two sentences?
01:32:25.904 --> 01:32:31.875
If you really want to help start doing this, and if you really want to help, stop doing this.
01:32:32.234 --> 01:32:33.465
And that's how I ended the book.
01:32:34.034 --> 01:32:37.845
I've listed them by name and I've a and I've actually put in what they sent me.
01:32:38.444 --> 01:32:39.404
Oh, how cool.
01:32:39.494 --> 01:32:51.164
They say things like, if you really want to help leave If you really want to help quit coming in and thinking that you have the answers to our problems.
01:32:52.789 --> 01:32:57.885
It's a highly convicting, I think, a beautiful, transparent, very honest, vulnerable.
01:32:59.024 --> 01:33:06.944
To the question to the West that says we are not, the poor are not a set of problems to be solved by you.
01:33:07.064 --> 01:33:09.675
We are the solution to our, so our poverty problem.
01:33:10.335 --> 01:33:13.935
Let us lead, you follow, let us solve our own problems.
01:33:13.935 --> 01:33:18.284
Help us with the capacity and the teaching and maybe the resources to go do that.
01:33:18.465 --> 01:33:31.965
But don't come in here and tell us what you need, what you think we need because you're not right And don't convey your Western broken really jacked up values on us But how many organizations do that, Charlie?
01:33:33.045 --> 01:33:36.465
We have the money and the idea and we think it should be our way.
01:33:36.465 --> 01:33:40.635
And I think that's why I get in trouble a lot with my directness and all that.
01:33:40.635 --> 01:33:44.564
But I feel like Four 10 Bridge, this methodology isn't news.
01:33:44.564 --> 01:33:48.555
Lots of things that, lots of writings on this, but we are a disruption to this.
01:33:50.175 --> 01:33:52.274
No, you are, I remember.
01:33:52.395 --> 01:33:59.685
And we have to separate, the west has to separate what we give and how we give it from our need to feel good about ourselves.
01:33:59.895 --> 01:34:00.074
We
01:34:00.074 --> 01:34:00.255
have.
01:34:00.255 --> 01:34:11.654
And how many people and how many communities have you started to, started with not started like from the beginning, but how many have you at least had to start with?
01:34:11.654 --> 01:34:17.354
And how many communities have, are you, have you, are you still with and how many have graduated?
01:34:17.359 --> 01:34:17.744
You follow
01:34:17.744 --> 01:34:17.925
me?
01:34:18.015 --> 01:34:18.164
Yeah.
01:34:18.225 --> 01:34:21.704
So we've graduated 13, we're gonna graduate our 13th, I think that's right.
01:34:21.734 --> 01:34:22.875
13th this year.
01:34:23.984 --> 01:34:32.534
We are currently working in probably I would say, call it 20 communities A now we're in Haiti.
01:34:33.015 --> 01:34:36.284
And so 13 graduated, 20 are active.
01:34:36.345 --> 01:34:37.515
And then you had some bigger
01:34:37.520 --> 01:34:38.114
number.
01:34:38.295 --> 01:34:43.694
We had some, we have, we've probably, I would say we've had, six to eight that we've had to exit.
01:34:44.295 --> 01:34:44.744
Oh, you did?
01:34:44.774 --> 01:34:45.164
Okay.
01:34:45.225 --> 01:34:46.725
And and then there's Haiti.
01:34:47.609 --> 01:34:48.659
which we had 20.
01:34:48.659 --> 01:34:49.439
What happened there?
01:34:49.805 --> 01:34:50.819
It's just a mess, man.
01:34:50.819 --> 01:35:00.869
It's just, it's a failed state and we're not, we're really unable to do our development work right now there, because of the trial, the because of the civil unrest and kidnappings and gangs.
01:35:00.869 --> 01:35:03.270
And it's just a, it's not conducive to development.
01:35:03.270 --> 01:35:03.479
Really.
01:35:03.484 --> 01:35:05.970
What it is a, relief environment.
01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:06.689
So basically
01:35:06.689 --> 01:35:09.060
you're saying it's an unstable society?
01:35:09.239 --> 01:35:11.250
It's an, it's a, I call it a failed state.
01:35:11.279 --> 01:35:11.609
Yeah.
01:35:11.880 --> 01:35:12.810
It's a failed state.
01:35:12.960 --> 01:35:16.949
Send people our, staff can't travel, so we're not able to work there.
01:35:16.949 --> 01:35:17.340
We were up.
01:35:17.430 --> 01:35:17.970
This doesn't
01:35:17.970 --> 01:35:19.199
go back to the two things.
01:35:19.229 --> 01:35:25.050
In other words, it's not that the leaders aren't cor, you said that you fail, had failures because the leaders are become corrupt.
01:35:25.260 --> 01:35:25.409
Yeah.
01:35:25.560 --> 01:35:26.729
Or the west comes in.
01:35:27.239 --> 01:35:30.329
This is just a, an unstable environment.
01:35:30.329 --> 01:35:31.170
You can't work in that.
01:35:31.439 --> 01:35:31.770
Correct.
01:35:32.010 --> 01:35:32.369
That's correct.
01:35:32.375 --> 01:35:32.609
I got
01:35:32.609 --> 01:35:32.670
it.
01:35:32.729 --> 01:35:33.060
Okay.
01:35:33.300 --> 01:35:33.569
Correct.
01:35:34.319 --> 01:35:38.729
Alright, so then, you've been doing this 16 years?
01:35:38.850 --> 01:35:39.630
Almost 17.
01:35:39.710 --> 01:35:39.949
Yeah.
01:35:39.949 --> 01:35:40.270
It's great.
01:35:40.274 --> 01:35:40.289
Almost
01:35:40.710 --> 01:35:40.979
17 years.
01:35:40.979 --> 01:35:41.250
Okay.
01:35:41.939 --> 01:35:53.369
You've you, so you had people come alongside with, when they look at the communities, the impact that you've had and everything, the people that you've graduated they said, man, Kurt, you need to write a book.
01:35:54.569 --> 01:35:54.840
Okay.
01:35:56.100 --> 01:36:01.500
So how long ago, I'm sure that they were asking you to write a book Long ago.
01:36:02.100 --> 01:36:02.460
Yeah.
01:36:02.699 --> 01:36:03.899
For many, years.
01:36:04.529 --> 01:36:04.859
Yeah, that's
01:36:04.859 --> 01:36:05.189
true.
01:36:05.939 --> 01:36:07.109
So why did you at
01:36:07.109 --> 01:36:11.939
this point say I bet I should write that book.
01:36:12.119 --> 01:36:12.359
Yeah.
01:36:12.810 --> 01:36:13.260
Tell me how
01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:14.189
That, happened.
01:36:14.189 --> 01:36:16.199
Started writing it about five or six years ago.
01:36:16.199 --> 01:36:21.539
I don't know how long it's been, and had some chapter summaries and what got you finally started.
01:36:21.869 --> 01:36:25.439
I'm sorry, the hard part is getting started.
01:36:25.439 --> 01:36:29.130
Like you said, God told me I should just do the next right thing.
01:36:29.520 --> 01:36:32.880
When did you finally get to that first right thing on the book?
01:36:34.199 --> 01:36:47.310
Again, five or six years ago, circulated kind of proposals, chapter summaries to publishers, and basically they were saying it was too close to when Helping Hurts, which is a pretty big book in our space of how to help the poor.
01:36:47.340 --> 01:36:49.949
Yeah, I think you told me once that was the Bible for the
01:36:49.949 --> 01:36:50.430
space.
01:36:50.435 --> 01:36:50.880
The Bible.
01:36:50.939 --> 01:36:56.789
Now I hope if you really wanna help becomes the next version of that Bible because theirs is, we really love it.
01:36:56.789 --> 01:37:04.409
It's I'm a big fan of it, but it's fairly academic and I feel like if you really want to help is when Helping Hurts meets boots on the ground.
01:37:04.439 --> 01:37:05.460
That's how I see it.
01:37:05.609 --> 01:37:07.229
How do we actually go and implement?
01:37:07.560 --> 01:37:08.039
So did
01:37:09.960 --> 01:37:13.170
When helping Hurts, did they have the same look?
01:37:13.529 --> 01:37:15.989
Oh, did they have the same philosophy that you had?
01:37:16.109 --> 01:37:16.199
Yes.
01:37:16.199 --> 01:37:18.779
Were they solving the same problem to identify it the way
01:37:18.779 --> 01:37:19.199
you do?
01:37:20.789 --> 01:37:23.189
I think they did, but not in the same words.
01:37:23.369 --> 01:37:24.300
They see poverty.
01:37:24.989 --> 01:37:31.680
An issue of broken relationships between us and God, us and our environment, us and our neighbors.
01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:33.539
And so they have just different ways of saying it.
01:37:34.020 --> 01:37:35.819
And and they did it really well.
01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:37.439
I came out in 2009.
01:37:37.529 --> 01:37:38.640
We've been doing it for a few years.
01:37:38.645 --> 01:37:39.029
We loved it.
01:37:39.539 --> 01:37:42.449
And it gives, and it's a biblical foundation to it, which we really love too.
01:37:42.449 --> 01:37:43.319
So I'm a big fan.
01:37:44.579 --> 01:37:50.279
I just feel like my book today, I, and so I started at actually in earnest, started in, so what did
01:37:50.279 --> 01:37:56.130
you tell, what did you tell these publishers when you floated this idea with them and they said, eh, it just seems like this one.
01:37:56.279 --> 01:37:56.760
Why, would I
01:37:56.760 --> 01:37:57.300
do yours?
01:37:57.420 --> 01:37:57.600
Yeah.
01:37:57.604 --> 01:37:59.039
There wasn't a whole lot of conversation.
01:38:00.119 --> 01:38:00.689
There was you what?
01:38:00.899 --> 01:38:02.310
There wasn't a whole lot of conversation.
01:38:02.310 --> 01:38:03.420
It was just like, no, thanks.
01:38:06.630 --> 01:38:07.649
So, what do you do then?
01:38:07.649 --> 01:38:08.819
You say, you're telling me to write.
01:38:08.819 --> 01:38:09.899
Everybody's telling me to write a book.
01:38:09.899 --> 01:38:11.369
I wrote I, wrote a few chapters.
01:38:11.369 --> 01:38:12.090
I floated it.
01:38:12.270 --> 01:38:13.109
There's no interest.
01:38:13.380 --> 01:38:15.720
I did the next, Right thing, which was, what's that?
01:38:15.720 --> 01:38:16.890
Just put it up on the shelf.
01:38:16.890 --> 01:38:20.640
And when God wanted to open the door to go write the book, he'd open that door and I'd walk through.
01:38:20.640 --> 01:38:20.939
Okay.
01:38:21.390 --> 01:38:24.989
And that's what happened at the beginning of 2021, really.
01:38:26.340 --> 01:38:37.409
And that's when I, in, in earnest, felt like we had now several more years under our belt, more graduated communities, more learning.
01:38:38.970 --> 01:38:46.140
And I felt like there was a different story that I wanted to tell from the first one that kind of coalesced in my head and.
01:38:47.595 --> 01:38:47.864
Yeah.
01:38:48.074 --> 01:38:54.614
And, I was able, I just my problem was getting from a blank piece of paper to something that I could expand on.
01:38:54.614 --> 01:39:02.475
So I, worked with a woman named Bethany Bratcher, who helped me take out of my head put into book format.
01:39:03.345 --> 01:39:12.104
And she gave, got me started on what I wanted to say and how I wanted to organize my thoughts and the points we were trying to make, and the stories that needed to be told.
01:39:12.104 --> 01:39:14.354
And then I took it from there and and, wrote it.
01:39:15.965 --> 01:39:16.314
To
01:39:16.515 --> 01:39:17.954
the end, that question, I did have a question.
01:39:17.954 --> 01:39:26.295
It says there, there aren't there a lot of books on developing these developing communi how to do this development?
01:39:26.324 --> 01:39:26.625
Okay.
01:39:26.625 --> 01:39:27.375
And you're saying, yeah.
01:39:27.375 --> 01:39:33.104
In fact, it was one when helping her to the is, the the Bible of it all.
01:39:33.109 --> 01:39:40.185
But you're, I see what you're saying is the, reason for your book is that was a very fairly academic sort of view of things.
01:39:40.725 --> 01:39:42.704
Which wasn't incorrect, but Correct.
01:39:42.704 --> 01:39:44.114
But yours is really boot.
01:39:44.114 --> 01:39:46.454
This is how you apply this.
01:39:46.965 --> 01:39:48.255
This is one of the ways to apply it.
01:39:48.255 --> 01:39:48.734
This is how we
01:39:48.734 --> 01:39:48.944
Yeah.
01:39:49.399 --> 01:39:50.685
And it's really worked for us.
01:39:50.685 --> 01:39:51.494
And I've got proof.
01:39:51.494 --> 01:39:52.845
I'm not academic anymore.
01:39:53.055 --> 01:39:57.465
I'm, telling you what we did and I think what worked and what didn't work that's a
01:39:57.470 --> 01:39:58.154
different view.
01:39:58.364 --> 01:40:04.185
The other significant difference is, or additional additive to it is, that there's this worldview focus.
01:40:04.755 --> 01:40:17.805
So it's like when helping hurts discipling nations, how do you actually go get people to start thinking about thinking differently so they can solve their own problems, they can continue their journey of development long after you leave.
01:40:18.225 --> 01:40:20.475
How do you redefine this war on poverty?
01:40:21.435 --> 01:40:27.375
What it means to win it, what it means for the people living in poverty and how do we redefine how we fight the battle together?
01:40:27.404 --> 01:40:28.484
That's what my book is.
01:40:30.284 --> 01:40:30.975
I love that.
01:40:30.975 --> 01:40:36.555
So you got Discipling Nations, the oldest book, then you get to when Helping Hurts.
01:40:37.649 --> 01:40:44.220
Which takes the discipling nation which, takes a view of, it doesn't embrace discipling nations.
01:40:44.250 --> 01:40:44.520
Okay.
01:40:44.520 --> 01:40:47.819
It has, its, it's a standalone sort of philosophy, if you will.
01:40:47.819 --> 01:40:51.899
And then you come over with, if you really want to help, you really wanna help.
01:40:51.899 --> 01:40:55.079
And you bring all of those together and make it work.
01:40:55.199 --> 01:40:55.979
Try to, yeah.
01:40:56.069 --> 01:40:57.029
Who's your audience for
01:40:57.029 --> 01:40:57.329
this?
01:40:58.829 --> 01:41:00.510
I think it's, who should read this book?
01:41:01.109 --> 01:41:21.750
I think it's the, quick answer is there's a kind of an insider group of any global missions pastor, anybody running a nonprofit, working in the, in, in poverty environments who are willing to step back from what they do and say, am I thinking about.
01:41:23.100 --> 01:41:26.489
Properly, am I incorporating this worldview shift idea?
01:41:26.489 --> 01:41:31.800
That is the only way, in my view, to sustain solutions for the poor over the long haul.
01:41:31.829 --> 01:41:32.550
Am I doing that?
01:41:32.550 --> 01:41:44.550
So that group of people, I think also we want, I want trip participants, people that are going and working with the poor to read it before they go so they have a better understanding of what they're facing.
01:41:44.550 --> 01:41:49.500
And that just because they have the money in their pocket that they think they can solve this problem.
01:41:49.500 --> 01:41:56.250
They really need to rethink how they define poverty, how they think about poverty, what those solutions are.
01:41:56.939 --> 01:42:13.560
Cuz I say more o I say so often that the greatest risk to our development model are short-term teams going into our communities because they get emotional, they see someone in need, they wanna solve that problem, and they don't think about, you can help, but if you really want to help, here's a way to help.
01:42:13.560 --> 01:42:15.779
The how we do it is critically important.
01:42:15.779 --> 01:42:16.710
So just pause.
01:42:17.220 --> 01:42:20.760
Don't get emotional and let's figure out how to make the local church the hero.
01:42:21.479 --> 01:42:26.039
How do we, do this in a proper way where you can still help, but you can do it in a healthy way?
01:42:26.699 --> 01:42:39.390
And then I think there's a, there's another audience that's a broader audience who I would love to just read my book and apply this idea of worldview driving choices.
01:42:39.390 --> 01:42:40.949
Choices, driving actions.
01:42:41.430 --> 01:42:44.220
Because on our side of the bridge, we have a worldview problem too.
01:42:44.699 --> 01:42:48.960
And it's not just as it relates to the poor, but we are being told lies every day.
01:42:48.960 --> 01:42:49.649
By the worldview you
01:42:49.649 --> 01:42:51.420
mean our side of the bridge being America?
01:42:51.425 --> 01:42:51.779
Yeah.
01:42:51.779 --> 01:42:52.100
Yeah.
01:42:52.100 --> 01:42:52.500
Yeah.
01:42:52.505 --> 01:42:52.680
Okay.
01:42:53.159 --> 01:42:54.720
That was something I was gonna get into.
01:42:54.720 --> 01:42:55.439
This is interesting.
01:42:55.439 --> 01:42:56.310
You're bringing this up.
01:42:56.430 --> 01:42:56.609
Yeah.
01:42:56.789 --> 01:42:58.079
I think we're being told you look
01:42:58.079 --> 01:43:05.789
at the poor communities, the uneducated communities the, indigent that we have here in America, the homelessness issues that we're dealing with.
01:43:06.630 --> 01:43:07.979
It's, very broad.
01:43:08.369 --> 01:43:08.789
It is.
01:43:09.359 --> 01:43:14.039
Because I came back from Uganda and I was sudden like, what can I do to help in Atlanta?
01:43:14.534 --> 01:43:14.984
Yeah.
01:43:15.225 --> 01:43:23.895
And I didn't even know where to start, and one of my sons was very engaged in one of those communities and he finally broke his pick.
01:43:23.895 --> 01:43:26.265
He said, I don't know what to do.
01:43:26.295 --> 01:43:34.364
There's a guy in our church who every Sunday goes through this, community, a very bad community here in Atlanta.
01:43:34.425 --> 01:43:39.284
And he rounds up 10, 12 kids, puts'em on a bus, brings'em to church.
01:43:39.765 --> 01:43:40.965
And I said, what are you doing?
01:43:40.965 --> 01:43:45.975
He says I came out of a real com bad community in la Hispanic community.
01:43:46.274 --> 01:43:47.654
I almost got killed.
01:43:47.659 --> 01:43:49.994
The guy that got killed was somebody looked like me.
01:43:49.994 --> 01:43:51.435
They thought they were going after me.
01:43:52.095 --> 01:43:54.494
So I always felt like I needed to do something.
01:43:54.795 --> 01:43:55.755
So I don't know what to do.
01:43:55.755 --> 01:43:57.975
So I just pick'em up and bring them to the church.
01:43:57.975 --> 01:44:06.194
And the reason is I want them to see what life might be To get a view.
01:44:07.845 --> 01:44:08.895
So, speak to this.
01:44:08.895 --> 01:44:12.015
So how does, how might this, your book help in.
01:44:12.449 --> 01:44:14.579
On this side of the bridge in our communities.
01:44:16.590 --> 01:44:16.859
So who
01:44:16.864 --> 01:44:17.430
should read it?
01:44:18.449 --> 01:44:22.289
Anybody running a, Anybody running a nonprofit?
01:44:22.319 --> 01:44:24.840
Working with the disadvantaged?
01:44:25.500 --> 01:44:25.560
Yeah.
01:44:25.564 --> 01:44:29.039
But even I can say disadvantaged, the poor, the homeless.
01:44:30.420 --> 01:44:35.939
I mean there's, a lot of systemic issues that we have on this side of the bridge that, that complicate that.
01:44:36.270 --> 01:44:36.899
Oh, baby.
01:44:36.930 --> 01:44:37.649
Politically.
01:44:37.649 --> 01:44:37.770
Yeah.
01:44:37.770 --> 01:44:40.770
You don't have the government over there in Uganda giving people money.
01:44:41.010 --> 01:44:41.520
Exactly.
01:44:42.720 --> 01:44:43.800
sorts of other issues.
01:44:44.079 --> 01:44:55.140
I, think I just want, I just, I hope that the book wides a platform for someone to sit back in their chair and think more critically about what they're doing.
01:44:56.130 --> 01:45:03.359
So in and of itself, this guy that's bringing these 10 or 12 kids out of that poor community and bringing the church in and of itself, that's not a bad thing.
01:45:04.439 --> 01:45:05.729
But where's the local church?
01:45:07.380 --> 01:45:08.279
With those kids.
01:45:08.310 --> 01:45:19.079
Why is D taking those kids to their church in their community, who can come alongside them inside their community and not take them outside where the, solution to their problem is this church outside their community?
01:45:19.289 --> 01:45:23.880
Again, it's really hard to be critical of that because it's not in and of itself a bad thing.
01:45:23.880 --> 01:45:29.340
But are we thinking critically about solutions that are really gonna help?
01:45:29.489 --> 01:45:30.600
That may be really
01:45:30.609 --> 01:45:30.850
difficult.
01:45:30.850 --> 01:45:37.649
I think you gotta ask yourself the question, if you are him, is to say, am I doing this because it really makes me feel good?
01:45:37.739 --> 01:45:41.220
Or am I doing this because it's really having an impact on their lives?
01:45:42.154 --> 01:45:47.279
And I would say it's probably having an impact on their lives, but is there a way to is there a better way?
01:45:47.579 --> 01:45:47.939
Is there a
01:45:47.939 --> 01:45:48.359
better way?
01:45:48.569 --> 01:45:48.649
Yeah.
01:45:49.050 --> 01:45:49.649
Maybe a little bit more.
01:45:49.649 --> 01:45:50.100
I get it.
01:45:50.130 --> 01:45:50.609
Okay.
01:45:50.760 --> 01:45:51.270
That's good.
01:45:51.274 --> 01:46:03.180
Again, I don't wanna be critical because there's a lot of people doing really great things, but stop and just, and think through, are you really helping or are you just doing the same things that you've been doing for decades?
01:46:03.810 --> 01:46:07.619
Without any outcome, without any proof that the outcomes are actually working.
01:46:07.619 --> 01:46:12.750
This is why I talk about our outcomes are what's important, not how many programs we run.
01:46:12.930 --> 01:46:13.619
No, that makes sense.
01:46:13.619 --> 01:46:14.520
Activities we undertake?
01:46:14.729 --> 01:46:16.859
Are we achieving the measurable outcomes that we want?
01:46:16.859 --> 01:46:17.819
I wish organization, one of the
01:46:17.819 --> 01:46:21.090
things that I would recommend and you brought up this.
01:46:21.090 --> 01:46:21.899
Who should read the book?
01:46:23.085 --> 01:46:35.534
You you brought up one group and you said that so many of the so many churches and particularly large churches are sending people sending kids out in a lot of cases on these mission trips.
01:46:36.265 --> 01:46:44.954
I just got somebody who's got a son who's gone on the mission trip and he said, my son needs to raise whatever the number was,$2,200 or whatever to go on this trip.
01:46:45.704 --> 01:46:53.055
The total trip is gonna cost$54,000 or something and I look at that and I go, wow that's a lot of money.
01:46:53.055 --> 01:47:01.454
But the guy said, who sent it to me, a friend, he said, when I want an admission trip it really changed my perspective on the world and on life.
01:47:01.515 --> 01:47:05.475
So it had that impact on him, and he's really excited that his son is going.
01:47:06.885 --> 01:47:16.484
I would recommend that your book be given to each one of those kids as they're getting back on the plane to come back to America.
01:47:17.295 --> 01:47:18.015
Not before.
01:47:20.024 --> 01:47:20.564
After.
01:47:21.284 --> 01:47:31.185
Maybe, in other words, I lived it, I'm sitting in it, look, you get this free book now you're saying, and it says, and it asks you, do you really wanna help?
01:47:32.114 --> 01:47:34.425
Because now I have something to compare it against.
01:47:34.430 --> 01:47:34.744
Yeah.
01:47:35.595 --> 01:47:42.074
And I think that it would have amazing impact and, develop some really great world
01:47:42.074 --> 01:47:42.494
leaders.
01:47:43.005 --> 01:47:43.215
Yeah.
01:47:43.425 --> 01:47:54.104
We're putting, I'm putting the, I'm writing a, small group curriculum attached to the book at this currently where it's on poverty and it's this group experiential small group curriculum.
01:47:54.104 --> 01:47:55.814
So that'll be coming out in the next few months.
01:47:57.074 --> 01:48:05.625
Study plans, you version reading plans discussion plans, all to get the dialogue for people who are going to stop.
01:48:05.625 --> 01:48:08.805
And again and just reflect on Yeah.
01:48:10.664 --> 01:48:18.765
But if you can get these people called Charlie to help the poor, We're, but we're not called to to support the poor.
01:48:19.479 --> 01:48:20.774
We're, here to help the poor.
01:48:20.774 --> 01:48:26.625
And as much time in my view, it's much of that has to do with how that impacts us as it does the poor.
01:48:27.225 --> 01:48:35.984
And so that's why when we send teams and we send lots of teams from lots of churches, partners to going into our communities, it's a very relational thing.
01:48:36.975 --> 01:48:38.984
It's not about what we're going off to do.
01:48:38.984 --> 01:48:49.965
It's about who we're doing it with and can we have this, can we create this experience, cross-cultural experience where both sides of the bridge see God at work in new and exciting ways.
01:48:50.625 --> 01:48:51.975
We develop our worldview.
01:48:53.895 --> 01:48:54.944
We, love on each other.
01:48:54.944 --> 01:48:58.664
We do things, but it's not about what we do, it's about who we do it with.
01:48:59.385 --> 01:48:59.564
Yeah.
01:48:59.654 --> 01:49:05.595
Instead of being a doer of going over there and wanting to be a doer, we want people to go over there and.
01:49:06.989 --> 01:49:10.289
And that's an amazing discipleship opportunity.
01:49:10.289 --> 01:49:14.819
A lot of people say to me all the time, where you were going, he said we're gonna spend$55,000 on this trip.
01:49:14.824 --> 01:49:16.409
Wouldn't it be better if we just sent the money over there?
01:49:16.409 --> 01:49:18.479
And I'm like, no it wouldn't be.
01:49:19.829 --> 01:49:30.989
Now, in some cases it would be because some organizations are doing it so poorly and perpetuating the problem and actually disempowering people that they're going to serve, that it probably would be better not to send their people.
01:49:31.140 --> 01:49:36.210
But if you do it right, the kingdom is an, is a much better place because of it.
01:49:36.510 --> 01:49:37.529
But you gotta do it right.
01:49:37.619 --> 01:49:40.050
And it, and then, and again it's, more difficult.
01:49:40.109 --> 01:49:41.880
It's requires more training.
01:49:41.880 --> 01:49:45.569
It requires more discussion and more preparation for the community.
01:49:45.960 --> 01:49:51.810
And I'm a big fan because if I didn't go for that first trip to Bali four 10 Bridge wouldn't have happened.
01:49:51.810 --> 01:49:56.579
And we've, impacted hundreds of thousands of people over the last 17 years.
01:49:56.579 --> 01:49:58.649
That's that's been really helpful.
01:49:58.649 --> 01:50:02.850
But if I hadn't gone and seen and experienced and made all those mistakes
01:50:05.625 --> 01:50:05.744
Yeah.
01:50:05.744 --> 01:50:10.125
But I love it that God got a hold of your heart and convicted you that you need to solve this problem.
01:50:11.055 --> 01:50:16.604
It's, a business, an entrepreneur's view is they see problems and we see problems.
01:50:16.604 --> 01:50:18.255
There's problems everywhere in our lives.
01:50:18.255 --> 01:50:24.944
They surround us, but every once in a while an entrepreneur goes, that's important that we should, I know how to solve that.
01:50:24.975 --> 01:50:26.295
And that's how it gets started.
01:50:26.354 --> 01:50:27.975
I'll get started one step at a time.
01:50:27.975 --> 01:50:29.505
So you're a heck of an entrepreneur.
01:50:29.534 --> 01:50:31.574
So what's the next decade look for four 10.
01:50:31.574 --> 01:50:34.904
What's the next decade look like for four 10 Bridge?
01:50:35.685 --> 01:50:36.465
That's a good question.
01:50:36.465 --> 01:50:38.505
I would say we
01:50:39.645 --> 01:50:40.994
this will bring you to your 25th
01:50:40.994 --> 01:50:41.744
anniversary.
01:50:42.494 --> 01:50:43.604
Yeah, Wow.
01:50:46.125 --> 01:50:47.715
It's not the years, it's the miles.
01:50:48.795 --> 01:50:57.135
But yeah, I would say that we'll, expand into some, we're already looking at expanding into some more, countries, but in, we've been invited into new, countries, so I'm excited about that.
01:50:57.944 --> 01:51:03.765
I think we'll continue to refine and grow our current methodology to get better at it.
01:51:04.185 --> 01:51:13.425
But at the end of the day, I think this isn't as much about us going and helping one or 10 or 12 more communities.
01:51:14.024 --> 01:51:29.774
To me, it really is about being a disruption to this poverty space and changing the paradigm of how the West engages the poor so that other organizations stop doing what's not helpful, start doing what really helps, and then we can have a bigger, broader kingdom impact.
01:51:30.194 --> 01:51:36.704
Because we, learned very early on that we can't be successful over there without support from the West.
01:51:36.824 --> 01:51:55.755
We, need money and resources to do what we do, but we also can't be successful in what we do until we change the paradigm of how the West engages the poor because how we define it, how we, the solutions that we put in place if we continue to define poverty as a financial problem, our solutions are gonna be all financial.
01:51:56.114 --> 01:51:59.324
And that is not gonna solve, in my view, the poverty problem.
01:51:59.864 --> 01:52:02.055
So I spent a lot of my time doing this.
01:52:02.085 --> 01:52:02.725
That's why I wrote this.
01:52:02.725 --> 01:52:05.475
I think this is, I think this is it's a good view.
01:52:05.479 --> 01:52:13.694
I'll give you a view that I give sometimes to entrepreneurs, and these are entrepreneurs that might build a 200 million company, okay?
01:52:14.055 --> 01:52:16.364
And they think wow, we're a really big company.
01:52:16.845 --> 01:52:23.835
And from a corporate viewpoint, they're basically a successful pilot.
01:52:25.784 --> 01:52:26.265
okay?
01:52:26.774 --> 01:52:33.164
That's how corporate looks at, I am a 260, about 200 billion company or something.
01:52:33.170 --> 01:52:35.444
And you tell me I got this 200 billion organization.
01:52:35.475 --> 01:52:37.034
And they go yeah, it's nice.
01:52:38.354 --> 01:52:51.119
and those are the companies they buy because they see now that product and that idea solving that problem works, now we can incorporate it into our bigger organization.
01:52:51.420 --> 01:53:02.340
And that's what you are trying to, you have a successful pilot on how to do development in how to serve the porn, developing comp countries.
01:53:02.489 --> 01:53:04.529
That's a now can, will they adopt it?
01:53:05.069 --> 01:53:08.369
It's amazing that you just said that because I met with a mutual friend this morning.
01:53:08.850 --> 01:53:09.630
Okay.
01:53:10.109 --> 01:53:12.810
That's the exact words that he used, was the word pilot.
01:53:13.020 --> 01:53:14.970
You have Oh, it was, oh my gosh.
01:53:15.029 --> 01:53:15.569
Okay.
01:53:15.569 --> 01:53:33.659
You've got these pilots and and he's, helping me work through again this, is about a movement and, it's about really, changing how the west approaches the poor with proof of these pilots that they work.
01:53:34.979 --> 01:53:35.850
Now go and scale it.
01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:40.079
I, can't, I'm not gonna scale four 10 to 200 million ministry.
01:53:40.079 --> 01:53:43.409
I just, that's not what I feel like I'm called to do.
01:53:43.414 --> 01:53:59.430
But I, do feel like we can do a much better job globally of engaging the poor if we just on this side, rethink how we do it, define it better, rethink our methodology, and again, separate what we give and how we give it from our need to feel good about ourselves.
01:53:59.645 --> 01:53:59.699
I
01:53:59.699 --> 01:54:03.329
got two more questions and we'll end this and I'll let you go.
01:54:04.289 --> 01:54:13.800
one is, so how I, wanna make sure that people understand or listen to this, how they might, what your need is financially for 10 Bridge and how they might
01:54:13.800 --> 01:54:14.250
help.
01:54:14.640 --> 01:54:17.609
Yeah we got needs, financial needs for sure.
01:54:17.609 --> 01:54:24.390
Everything that we have to do our work is sacrificially given by, people who are generous.
01:54:25.034 --> 01:54:25.845
And because
01:54:26.114 --> 01:54:27.524
you're not an organization that generates
01:54:27.524 --> 01:54:28.034
revenue.
01:54:28.125 --> 01:54:28.725
We do not.
01:54:28.994 --> 01:54:32.175
We, know we, have not, significant.
01:54:32.505 --> 01:54:34.215
We try to do some sustainability things.
01:54:34.215 --> 01:54:35.085
Mike, what's your budget?
01:54:36.104 --> 01:54:37.244
We're at about five and a half million,
01:54:37.875 --> 01:54:40.335
so you need to raise five and a half million dollars.
01:54:40.880 --> 01:54:41.385
Virtually.
01:54:42.079 --> 01:54:43.034
We need to, that's how much you need
01:54:43.034 --> 01:54:44.534
to get in Seven and a half, but,
01:54:44.534 --> 01:54:44.744
okay.
01:54:44.835 --> 01:54:45.595
Seven and a half.
01:54:45.600 --> 01:54:45.824
Okay.
01:54:46.034 --> 01:54:46.425
We're growing.
01:54:46.425 --> 01:54:46.904
Okay.
01:54:46.904 --> 01:54:57.645
We wanna go do more and we want to, there's so many more things we can go do, but so we we would love people to, one, to pray for our ministry would be is, just a great place to start.
01:54:58.454 --> 01:55:04.305
We need, we covered people's prayers for the people that we serve, for our staff, especially our staff on the ground.
01:55:04.305 --> 01:55:08.295
They're on the front lines, so prayer would be great to help us financially.
01:55:08.295 --> 01:55:09.765
We'd be really grateful for that.
01:55:09.765 --> 01:55:13.994
They can go to four 10 bridge.org and and, help us financially.
01:55:14.295 --> 01:55:20.625
Sponsoring a child is a great way to stay engaged with our ministry because we've redefined.
01:55:21.750 --> 01:55:37.800
That child sponsorship program and where you may have a one-to-one relationship with a child that you're walking with on their journey of development as they're going through school, but the resources go to lift the holistic development of that child and all of the children in that community.
01:55:39.095 --> 01:55:43.409
It's not an unhealthy one-to-one help to that child.
01:55:43.409 --> 01:55:44.579
So that's another thing they can go do.
01:55:44.579 --> 01:55:52.229
And I'd really, I think there's nothing better that somebody can do than to walk along the side, the life of a child as they're, yeah, growing up.
01:55:54.060 --> 01:55:55.229
And tell their friends about the book.
01:55:55.229 --> 01:55:57.359
Read the book see how you can engage.
01:55:57.364 --> 01:56:01.079
If your church is partnering with four 10, I think you need to go see it.
01:56:01.529 --> 01:56:04.500
You need to go serve people who can never serve you back.
01:56:06.359 --> 01:56:09.060
And that's another way to go do that or, to help.
01:56:10.800 --> 01:56:11.430
I love that.
01:56:12.090 --> 01:56:17.250
So as I, I had, my last question was is what about you what does your next decade look like?
01:56:17.939 --> 01:56:25.710
But sounds a bit like one of the answers that you gave me was, I need to be the evangelist for this pilot that we've created, the successful pilot.
01:56:26.164 --> 01:56:26.880
That's what I see.
01:56:28.319 --> 01:56:30.119
I, think we, do a really good job.
01:56:30.600 --> 01:56:33.510
We do, we, I think we do a really good job in on multiple fronts.
01:56:33.510 --> 01:56:38.729
We're not certainly far from perfect, but I think one of the things that we do well is our methodology for the poor.
01:56:38.729 --> 01:56:42.060
But the other one is on this side of the bridge, partnering with the North American Church.
01:56:43.619 --> 01:56:59.760
And I'm spending more and more of my time these days coaching, teaching, rebuking, encouraging the, North American, the global missions within the North American church to get better at mission.
01:57:00.899 --> 01:57:08.909
And and so I think that's probably over the next 10 years, I'll probably do less and less of the four 10 bridge.
01:57:09.284 --> 01:57:09.914
Operator.
01:57:10.215 --> 01:57:13.364
And more and more of being the op ambassador for if you really want to help.
01:57:13.604 --> 01:57:16.395
Cuz if you really want to help we gotta change some things.
01:57:17.234 --> 01:57:19.515
I think that's, that is where you are.
01:57:19.604 --> 01:57:27.194
I do think that this that you need to be that ambassador because you're onto something that has certainly proven to be successful.
01:57:27.734 --> 01:57:30.675
And I appreciate, I wish you the, best with the book.
01:57:30.734 --> 01:57:36.345
I love the advice that you finally give us which is serve people who can't serve themselves.
01:57:37.244 --> 01:57:38.234
no yet can't serve.
01:57:39.015 --> 01:57:40.244
Can't serve you back, rather.
01:57:40.635 --> 01:57:46.364
They can serve themselves because your philosophy or your principle is development starts with you.
01:57:47.175 --> 01:57:47.414
Exactly.
01:57:47.954 --> 01:57:48.314
Exactly.
01:57:48.590 --> 01:57:52.215
Not with somebody on the outside, boy, I learned so much.
01:57:52.220 --> 01:57:57.944
I learned a lot reading your book and, but this has been a, real joy, spending time with you and I know
01:57:58.034 --> 01:57:58.845
my pleasure, Charlie.
01:57:58.845 --> 01:57:59.805
I appreciate you.
01:57:59.805 --> 01:58:01.055
I appreciate you letting me on.
01:58:01.055 --> 01:58:01.215
Yeah.
01:58:01.484 --> 01:58:07.875
I'll tell you, I know the entrepreneurs that listen to this and I'll end with this, Kurt, if you just hang on for a second before we cut off.
01:58:07.880 --> 01:58:16.635
But to the entrepreneurs that listen to this this is there's so many lessons that can be learned for what Kurt has accomplished here.
01:58:17.835 --> 01:58:29.085
You're on to something as an entrepreneur when a problem, you see it and you just can't let go of it and you just have to chase it and people will start coming around you.
01:58:29.114 --> 01:58:35.475
It will start working, it will start growing, and all you have to do is what he said God wants him to do, which is the next.
01:58:36.284 --> 01:58:36.944
Right thing.
01:58:37.034 --> 01:58:40.814
So thanks for joining us and I hope to see you in a future interview.
01:58:41.024 --> 01:58:41.414
Thanks, Charles.