Question & Answer #188: from Induced Mysticism to the Most Underrated Buddhist Text

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Kind: captions
Language: en
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Okay then.
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Hello and welcome to episode
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188 of the best show on YouTube that has
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zero production values. I am your host
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Pony Bosa and this is my beverage
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and 188 of course is not prime. It is in
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fact 2 * 2 * 47. Pretty sure 47 is
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prime.
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Uh and before I weigh into these
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questions, I suppose I should announce
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again
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that my fourth book, Memoirs from
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Myanmar, which is uh primarily
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autobiographical,
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philosophical reflections on the monk's
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life, mainly in Burma, but also
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including Indonesia and the United
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States.
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So that's available on Amazon and you
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can find it in the URL links below if
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you're interested in that kind of stuff.
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And if you are interested then I would
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appreciate a review if you do purchase
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and read the book especially if it's a
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good review.
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And I would also like to announce just
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for the hell of it that I started a new
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job just last week and I'm back working
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in a metal shop again.
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It turns out that working in a metal
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shop is less unpleasant than being a
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professional forklift operator, which is
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kind of surprising, but that's the way
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it turned out.
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and my employment situation is still a
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little bit up in the air because after
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I've been working at this new place for
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three days,
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I get this email from some company I
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applied to probably more than a month
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ago saying, "Would you be willing to
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accept $8 an hour more than I mean, they
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didn't know how much I was making at
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this new place, but they were offering
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$8 an hour more." And I did the math and
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it turns out that adds up to like on a
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based on a 40hour week that adds up to
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more than $16,000 a year.
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So I'm kind of like hoping that they
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don't follow through and like once and
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for all offer me this job because I just
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feel like I'm already kind of committed
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to this other job. But I mean 16,000
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bucks a year plus is nothing to sneeze
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your nose at. So, I mean it has to be
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considered if they do offer it
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just the way it goes.
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So, let's see here. I guess uh as with
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that as a kind of intro,
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did I mention this this uh this show has
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zero production values
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at least? I mean, these these little
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paper umbrellas aren't they're not free,
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you know.
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Anyways, let's just start answering
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questions.
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And the first question is from Gordon.
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And Gordon says, 'You mentioned the
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Catholic explanation for the lack of
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progress you were experiencing. Is there
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a Terravada explanation? If so, what was
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it? And Gordon is referring to me in the
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previous Q&A, I think, talking about how
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um I was kind of like God in the God
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Suta where he would get Janna and lose
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it and get it and lose it and get it and
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lose it until he was at wit's end.
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And I was kind of like that with my
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meditation too. It's like I would get
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into deep meditative states and then
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lose it and then gain it and lose it and
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gain it and lose it. And St. John of the
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Cross, the mystical doctor of the
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Catholic Church
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said based on his own experience with
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what the Catholics called contemplation,
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which is essentially anything higher
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than first Janna from a Buddhist point
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of view. It seems to me now you're not
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thinking anymore. there is no longer um
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any kind of perceptual object, no
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labeling, no thinking.
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And he said that if you gain it and lose
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it and gain it and lose it and gain it
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and lose it, that just means that God
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has other plans for you than for you to
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be an adept, which would be kind of the
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Catholic equivalent of what a terra
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Buddhist would call an arya.
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So
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um Gordon here is asking if uh there's a
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terra explanation and the reason why I
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gave the Catholic explanation is because
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I am unaware of any official terravada
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explanation other than just you've got
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like karmic complications.
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You've got these latent tendencies that
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are standing in the way. you're not, you
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know, fully established in in the root
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virtues necessary to completely master
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like deep meditative states.
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So, I mean, a lot of people try for
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years and years and years and never even
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get in deep meditative state. So, at
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least I was able to get them. It's just
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that I never fully mastered it. So that
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um I mean once you've mastered it it's
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like pretty much any time you want to
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you can just sit down and go into these
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deep meditative states and in my case it
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didn't work out that way.
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So
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yeah I mean the terod explanation would
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just be
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karmic complications
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I guess. And I'm just going to move on
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to Gordon's second question. He says,
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"Regarding the Terrence McKenna
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quotation about drugs being an instant
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spiritual experience, it doesn't seem
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like you really disagreed with it. Is
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doing LSD the same thing as an actual
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spiritual experience?" Well, it depends
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on the experiencer and the experience
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itself.
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But yeah, I mean, most of the monks of
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my generation started off with like
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psychedelic drugs like Rahm Doss,
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formerly known as Dr. Richard Albert of
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Harvard University also started off with
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psychedelic drugs and then they started
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I mean first it like opens your eyes to
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to these new possibilities
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that you know the the version of reality
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that you've been living in your whole
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life isn't necessarily the best or
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truest version of reality. So it kind of
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like at least makes you aware of that.
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And in a case like that, I mean, all
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sorts of things could be uh a genuine
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spiritual experience. Getting hit over
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the head if it causes you to have a
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near-death experience, which then causes
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you to see the world differently.
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That's an actual or genuine spiritual
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experience.
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I mean, you can have a genuine spiritual
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experience from looking at a dog licking
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its own balls.
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So, yeah, sure. I think for some people,
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for a lot of people, taking LSD would be
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a genuine spiritual experience if it is
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inducing
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like mystical states or like profound
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insights. And just because you think
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it's a profound insight at the time
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doesn't mean that when you like are back
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into their ordinary waking
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consciousness, it's going to still seem
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like a profound insight. But just the
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very fact that you can have these
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experiences which is like giving you
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firsthand experience just firsthand
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empirical facts that
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the way that you've been living your
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life like the ordinary waking state of
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conscious consciousness is not the only
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possible state that I mean
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let's see I mean it's not necessarily
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even the truest date.
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So, let's see. Let's get back to the
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actual question here, though. Is doing
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LSD the same thing as an actual
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spiritual experience? It can be, and in
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many cases it is. I mean, if it's like
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inducing mystical states, which was the
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case like with me the first many times I
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took it as a teenager. I mean, it was it
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was largely that sort of thing that
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eventually got me on the path to
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becoming a monk. And that's that was the
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case with many monks of my generation. I
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don't know what it's like now.
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A lot of old hippies became monks
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because of that sort of thing. So, I
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mean,
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sure, and I I discussed this in the
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previous Q&A also to some degree, so I'm
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not going to just rehash the same the
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same arguments and so forth,
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but yeah, I mean, the Terrace Terrence
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McKenna quotation that I was responding
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to in the previous Q&A, you know, he he
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seemed to have this idea of like, you
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know, it's kind of a cheat. It's like
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you're cheating God or something by
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attaining just in a matter of half an
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hour after taking a tab of LSD what a
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lot of like renuncients are striving for
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for years and decades. And some of them
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never succeed in getting into as
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profound of a mental state as some some
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person can get from taking 500
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micrograms of LSD.
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So, it's it seems almost like a cheat or
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it seems like unfair somehow,
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but it still it still works.
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So, that was what really struck me. I
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mean, I wasn't going along the lines of
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Terrence McKenna saying that, you know,
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it's like using
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psychedelics is sort of like forcing God
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to do your bidding. You know, I
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addressed that in the previous Q&A, but
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it does seem like it's just almost
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cheating that it's so easy this way.
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Whereas following the traditional
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spiritual techniques, fasting and
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praying and meditating and renunciation
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and all that is not as reliable as just
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taking this little square of paper.
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It's just the way it turned out. But
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don't look a gift horse in the mouth, I
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guess.
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So, I'm just going to move on to
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Gordon's next question. Not that I am
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advising anyone to take illegal drugs.
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That's a disclaimer.
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Gordon's third question.
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And judging from this third question, he
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seems to be rather skeptical of the
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whole idea. He says, "If you went back
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in time and showed the Buddha LSD, would
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he say, "Ah, yeah, that's what I was
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trying to do the whole time, just
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better." and then ditch all his teaching
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and spend the rest of his life sitting
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on the coach the couch eating Cheetos
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and getting blasted. I have a hard time
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believing he would do this. Yeah. I
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mean, that's just ridiculous. That's
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just such an obvious false dichotomy,
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you know? It's just sophistry at best to
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frame it this way. But I mean like Nee
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Curly Baba up there notoriously
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took first it was 900 micrograms of very
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pure pharmaceutical grade LSD and then
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after that he took 1,200 micrograms
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which is enough to just blow the top off
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of somebody's head and it had no obvious
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discernable effect on him because he was
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such a master of of of his mind I guess
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such a swami
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that I mean it just didn't really have
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that much effect on him if any. But he
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did say that under certain circumstances
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this kind of thing can be useful if you
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take it in a place that isn't very hot
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and you take it like alone in a quiet
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place this kind of thing. He did give
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advice with regard to it. Well, let's
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see if the L if the Buddha took LSD. I
00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:00.470
mean, second-guessing a fully aligned
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being as it's a it's a common theme in
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.790
questions I receive, but still it's it's
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just an exercise in futility.
00:12:09.680 --> 00:12:13.269
But let's see. Uh if you if you went
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back in time and showed the Buddha LSD,
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would he say, "Oh, yeah, that's what I
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was trying to do the whole time, but
00:12:18.079 --> 00:12:21.030
better." But no, it's not better. I
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mean, it's better if you can do it
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without having to rely on the chemical.
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And also you get into purer states
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because the chemical is going to have
00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.190
weird side effects like the psychedelic
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visuals and that kind of stuff that is
00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.389
unnecessary that can be a distraction
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that just the euphoric rush and all this
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kind of thing. I mean that just kind of
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gets in the way or at least it can. So
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if you're doing it through meditation or
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contemplation as the Catholics call it,
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you get into if you're if you master or
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just get really good at it, you get into
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deeper better states. Like I got into
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deeper better states through meditation
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as a monk alone in a cave in Burma than
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:05.990
I got from LSD. I wouldn't have been in
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.550
that cave in Burma if I hadn't taken the
00:13:08.560 --> 00:13:10.710
LSD probably.
00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:12.470
But that's that's a different that's a
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.310
different matter. And LSD, like I say,
00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:18.069
it's got these sort of impurities in the
00:13:18.079 --> 00:13:20.949
state or just distractions added like,
00:13:20.959 --> 00:13:23.190
you know, psychedelic visuals and and
00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.350
kind of the weird distortions of
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:27.990
perception. And that's that may be one
00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:29.910
of the ways that psychedelics work is it
00:13:29.920 --> 00:13:33.110
just kind of interferes with perception,
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:35.350
distorts it to such an extent that
00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:36.790
you're kind of like seeing through the
00:13:36.800 --> 00:13:41.030
cracks. you know, it's making like
00:13:41.040 --> 00:13:44.150
deformities in normal the normal process
00:13:44.160 --> 00:13:47.350
of perception in a sense, you know, so
00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:49.910
to speak, so that you're kind of able to
00:13:49.920 --> 00:13:53.190
see through it.
00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:55.509
But I mean, it's just kind of like
00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.870
training wheels or something. I mean, if
00:13:58.880 --> 00:14:02.470
if really LSD was better than living the
00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:04.790
holy life, it wouldn't have caused all
00:14:04.800 --> 00:14:07.509
these people to just become monks as a
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:09.990
result of taking the LSD. The LSD is
00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.310
just kind of like a, you know, a peak
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.949
into what is possible
00:14:14.959 --> 00:14:17.670
and then have the Buddha spend the rest,
00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:19.189
ditch all of his teachings, which he
00:14:19.199 --> 00:14:20.310
wouldn't do. I mean, the four noble
00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:22.470
truths remain true regardless of whether
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.829
LSD exists or not and spend the rest of
00:14:25.839 --> 00:14:27.189
his life sitting on the couch eating
00:14:27.199 --> 00:14:28.790
Cheetos and getting blasted. Well, they
00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:30.790
didn't have Cheetos
00:14:30.800 --> 00:14:33.670
in the Buddha's time. But I mean I mean
00:14:33.680 --> 00:14:35.750
it just doesn't make any sense why the
00:14:35.760 --> 00:14:38.870
Buddha would do that. I mean the
00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:40.710
the the teachings of the Buddha are true
00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:45.189
regardless of whether LSD can inspire a
00:14:45.199 --> 00:14:46.870
genuine spiritual experience or a
00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:52.150
genuine mystical state.
00:14:52.160 --> 00:14:53.750
So yeah, I have a hard time believing he
00:14:53.760 --> 00:14:54.710
would do that too. I don't think he
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:56.069
would do that at all any more than Neim
00:14:56.079 --> 00:14:59.030
Crowley Baba up there after taking 900
00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:00.710
micrograms and then on a different
00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.829
occasion 1,200 micrograms of LSD. He
00:15:03.839 --> 00:15:07.990
didn't just renounce being a holy man
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:10.150
partly because what he had experienced
00:15:10.160 --> 00:15:13.750
was superior to the effects of the LSD.
00:15:13.760 --> 00:15:16.949
But still he did point out that it can
00:15:16.959 --> 00:15:19.509
be useful. It can be a genuine spiritual
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.030
tool. Not that I am promoting the taking
00:15:23.040 --> 00:15:26.629
of illegal drugs.
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.470
So let's just move on to the next
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.590
question here. This is from Crash Meta
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.230
Religion.
00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.430
And Crash Meta Religion says, "I
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:40.470
consider myself a neoplatanist religious
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.189
synratist. I often wonder what the
00:15:43.199 --> 00:15:45.269
future of the West will be from a
00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.470
religious standpoint point.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:51.590
That's what he says. Standpoint point.
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:54.389
Assuming the West isn't destroyed, what
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.710
do you think it will look like? I think
00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.350
a society where evangelical Christianity
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.269
is replaced by Hindu, Buddhist, and
00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:03.829
neopagan religions alongside of a more
00:16:03.839 --> 00:16:06.150
tolerant Christian mystical tradition
00:16:06.160 --> 00:16:08.150
would be a good thing. I don't see
00:16:08.160 --> 00:16:11.110
western man ditching Christianity, but I
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.350
hope they embrace more mystical and less
00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:16.629
dogmatic versions of it. And yeah, I've
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:18.949
been asked, you know, what I think the
00:16:18.959 --> 00:16:22.069
future of religion and spirituality will
00:16:22.079 --> 00:16:24.870
be in America or in Western civilization
00:16:24.880 --> 00:16:27.590
or in global civilization.
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:29.990
Um, and it's really hard to say. It's
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.710
sort of like a butterfly effect. It's
00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.189
you can't really predict or at least I
00:16:35.199 --> 00:16:37.110
can't really predict partly because it's
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.269
going to depend a lot like if there is a
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:43.430
new religion founded by some charismatic
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.910
enlightened founder or someone who is
00:16:45.920 --> 00:16:48.470
charismatic enough to compensate for the
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.550
fact that he isn't really enlightened
00:16:50.560 --> 00:16:54.230
which has happened then I mean there's
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:56.230
no telling who where he's going to be
00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:58.470
born he could be born in New York City
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:03.189
or or Uganda or China or who knows and
00:17:03.199 --> 00:17:05.029
what his cultural conditioning is going
00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:07.029
to be that he's going to grow up in is
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.909
going to very much influence like what
00:17:09.919 --> 00:17:12.309
his teachings are going to be like and
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:16.150
so I can't predict what culture the next
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:17.990
you know enlightened founder of a
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:20.789
religion or semi-enlightened charismatic
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:22.949
founder of religion what culture he's
00:17:22.959 --> 00:17:26.230
going to be born into
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:28.950
and I mean one thing that immediately
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:30.390
came to mind when I when I saw this
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:31.990
question when I read this question the
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.430
first time is a relatively common theme
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.150
in the writings of Brian Aldis who was a
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:40.710
science fiction author back in like the
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:44.150
60s and 70s especially and one of his
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.750
favorite themes was in a future age a
00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:50.789
new religion will be based on omnisient
00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:53.029
computers that everybody's going to
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:54.470
carry around this little computer with
00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:55.669
them that's going to be sort of like
00:17:55.679 --> 00:17:57.830
their their idol and they're just going
00:17:57.840 --> 00:18:00.630
to consult the AI and the AI AI is going
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:02.310
to be much more advanced than now. It's
00:18:02.320 --> 00:18:05.110
going to be as effectively omnisient.
00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:06.710
And so that's you're just going to have
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.430
this altar with an omnisient computer on
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:11.750
it and you're going to be consulting
00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:14.390
that computer as for guidance in your
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.350
life. And
00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:20.070
that wouldn't be completely surprising
00:18:20.080 --> 00:18:23.669
to me that AI gets advanced enough that
00:18:23.679 --> 00:18:25.350
it's going to become like an oracle. I
00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:27.990
mean already I consult Grock a lot with
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.590
regard to all sorts of things with
00:18:29.600 --> 00:18:32.390
regard to aquarium keeping or like
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.830
ancient history or just like recent
00:18:35.840 --> 00:18:39.190
politics that kind of stuff.
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:40.789
So, I mean, if it gets way more
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.310
advanced,
00:18:42.320 --> 00:18:45.270
you know, you get into like super AI
00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:48.150
that I mean, it becomes effectively
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:51.510
omnisient, at least in certain respects,
00:18:51.520 --> 00:18:53.590
then it could be that the next world
00:18:53.600 --> 00:18:57.430
religion is just going to be having like
00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:59.830
effectively practically omnisient
00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:02.630
computers serving as oracles instead of
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.909
going all the way to the oracle of Deli,
00:19:05.919 --> 00:19:09.270
having the Pythonist Jabber in a in a
00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:12.390
druginduced state with priests kind of
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:14.230
deciphering the jabbering and then
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.990
presenting you with some enigmatic
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.830
statement.
00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:19.669
After you've purified yourself and made
00:19:19.679 --> 00:19:22.230
the sacrifices and all that, you just go
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.830
to your your
00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:29.510
altar, consult the oracle, and you
00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:33.430
probably get more reliable information.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:35.909
But let's say that omnisient computers
00:19:35.919 --> 00:19:37.350
aren't going to be the the religion of
00:19:37.360 --> 00:19:39.110
the future. It's really hard to say. I
00:19:39.120 --> 00:19:41.909
mean, already especially on the left. I
00:19:41.919 --> 00:19:43.350
mean, you gota you got to give the devil
00:19:43.360 --> 00:19:47.029
its due that like the the liberals of
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:48.870
the especially starting with like the
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.430
boomer generation,
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.950
they became more eclectic, you know,
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.029
they didn't want to be stuffy
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:56.549
conservative Christians like their
00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.630
parents. So, they started investigating
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.430
Buddhism, Hinduism,
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:06.870
Daoism, Paganism, Wikah, that kind of
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:08.390
stuff.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.190
partly just in order not to be the
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:14.710
similar to their parents
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.270
and also just taking the like the
00:20:17.280 --> 00:20:19.350
psychedelic drugs that the hippies were
00:20:19.360 --> 00:20:21.750
notorious for might have helped them to
00:20:21.760 --> 00:20:23.430
go in that kind of direction. There's
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:27.590
still a lot of Christianity. Um but
00:20:27.600 --> 00:20:29.909
generally Christianity is more of a
00:20:29.919 --> 00:20:34.390
conservative thing and
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:36.630
yeah so
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.310
I'm not exactly sure where to go with
00:20:38.320 --> 00:20:39.990
this.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:43.590
Christianity I mean it seems to me that
00:20:43.600 --> 00:20:46.789
as a legitimate spiritual
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:50.470
force in world culture it has pretty
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.029
much exhausted itself. I mean, it's
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.350
there there are still a lot of devout,
00:20:55.360 --> 00:20:57.110
serious Christians out there, but it's
00:20:57.120 --> 00:20:59.590
just a pale shadow compared with just a
00:20:59.600 --> 00:21:03.590
few hundred years ago.
00:21:03.600 --> 00:21:05.430
So, it wouldn't surprise me if
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:07.669
Christianity is
00:21:07.679 --> 00:21:11.190
largely replaced by some new system,
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:14.070
preferably not Islam.
00:21:14.080 --> 00:21:15.830
I mean, you'd have to have something
00:21:15.840 --> 00:21:19.350
that would have sophistication, assuming
00:21:19.360 --> 00:21:21.270
that people just don't get so dumbed
00:21:21.280 --> 00:21:24.070
down that they can just revert to like a
00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:26.230
really primitive superstitious kind of
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.669
religions.
00:21:29.679 --> 00:21:31.510
But it it's this question is hard to
00:21:31.520 --> 00:21:33.190
answer because again there's like the
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.270
butterfly effect. Who knows where the
00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:37.909
next like enlightened or just
00:21:37.919 --> 00:21:39.830
charismatic spiritual leader will be
00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:41.990
born? What culture? What? So like what
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.270
culture is going to be pervading what he
00:21:45.280 --> 00:21:46.390
is teaching? You know what kind of
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.149
cultural conditioning? If he's born in
00:21:48.159 --> 00:21:49.190
the west, he could be like an
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.510
echarttolah type. But people like
00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:53.590
echartollah
00:21:53.600 --> 00:21:56.149
um they're just too eclectic and in a
00:21:56.159 --> 00:21:58.470
way kind of too lukewarm
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.029
to really get the ball rolling with like
00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:03.909
a new religious movement.
00:22:03.919 --> 00:22:07.110
And it's it's going to take certain
00:22:07.120 --> 00:22:12.149
characteristics I think in society to
00:22:12.159 --> 00:22:15.190
allow a new religion a new religion to
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.750
arise because it's like there has to be
00:22:17.760 --> 00:22:21.029
a kind of crisis point where people are
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:23.510
they cannot accept their old cultural
00:22:23.520 --> 00:22:25.830
conditioning as much anymore. They're
00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:28.310
looking for something different and that
00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:31.190
is when you know the the charismatic
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:33.510
leader has to arise that then just
00:22:33.520 --> 00:22:35.190
starts this whole new religious movement
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:37.669
going and it's of course it's almost
00:22:37.679 --> 00:22:40.549
impossible to predict with any kind of
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.270
certainty exactly how that's going to
00:22:43.280 --> 00:22:45.510
happen.
00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:47.990
Like Christianity, it was like classical
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:49.750
paganism had just kind of run its
00:22:49.760 --> 00:22:51.270
course. People didn't really believe in
00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:52.710
it anymore. they're just kind of going
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.789
through the motions with it or at least
00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:57.750
enough of them were that you know they
00:22:57.760 --> 00:23:01.750
just it had lost its its soul so to
00:23:01.760 --> 00:23:03.990
speak and Christianity seems to be doing
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.830
that also although of course there are
00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:08.710
still devout Christians just as when
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:12.710
Christianity was arising like 3rd 4th
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.350
century Roman Empire you still had a lot
00:23:15.360 --> 00:23:17.909
of devout pagans too and I don't think
00:23:17.919 --> 00:23:19.590
Christianity will ever be completely
00:23:19.600 --> 00:23:22.470
replaced maybe it Well, but I don't
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.789
know, you know, science has largely
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:27.990
replaced Christianity as the explanation
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.710
of reality.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.870
Christian, even devout Christians
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.190
generally have more faith in science
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.789
than they have in like interpreting the
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.110
Bible to explain
00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:43.110
why things are as they are as they are
00:23:43.120 --> 00:23:45.750
other than just God made it, but he made
00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:47.830
it according to like scientific rules,
00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:50.549
this kind of thing.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.149
So where's the actual question mark
00:23:52.159 --> 00:23:54.950
here? Assuming the west isn't destroyed,
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:57.350
what do you think it will look like?
00:23:57.360 --> 00:23:59.750
Which is the future of the west from a
00:23:59.760 --> 00:24:02.549
religious standpoint? The future of the
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:04.070
rest the west from a religious
00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:06.470
standpoint. What will it look like? I
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:07.830
mean there has to be some kind of
00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:11.350
unifying belief system. Any society that
00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:14.310
does not have a unifying belief system
00:24:14.320 --> 00:24:18.950
is it's just going to disintegrate.
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:21.909
And America kind of moved away from from
00:24:21.919 --> 00:24:24.230
religion and adopted a kind of civic
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:25.909
nationalism. I mean was everyone had the
00:24:25.919 --> 00:24:28.310
shared values of freedom and equality
00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:31.669
and so forth.
00:24:31.679 --> 00:24:33.430
But
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:35.430
I'm not exactly. I mean it could be some
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:38.470
kind of spiritual scientific kind of
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.870
mysticism even.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.350
But if I had to make a guess, it's
00:24:43.360 --> 00:24:45.430
either going to be some charismatic
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:49.669
leader who hopefully is wise
00:24:49.679 --> 00:24:51.830
or it's going to be like the Brian Aldis
00:24:51.840 --> 00:24:54.870
scenario of people consulting
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:57.190
practically omnisient computers as
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:00.070
oracles.
00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:02.149
But I mean again it's there's s such
00:25:02.159 --> 00:25:04.230
chaos theory involved in this such a
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.870
butterfly effect depending on where the
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:08.789
next religious
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:10.870
guru is going to arise. You know the
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.390
charismatic leader who's going to start
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:15.430
a world religion
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.870
who can say
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:20.149
so I'm just going to move on next
00:25:20.159 --> 00:25:22.870
question this is from Romeo and I'm just
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:24.149
checking to make sure we're recording.
00:25:24.159 --> 00:25:27.990
Yeah we are. We are recording. Romeo
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.950
says, "I see so many similar
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.630
tendencies."
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.750
Okay. I see so many similar tendencies
00:25:35.760 --> 00:25:37.430
both physically and emotionally in
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.830
members of my family. I understand this
00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:42.149
from a scientific, genetic, hereditary
00:25:42.159 --> 00:25:43.990
perspective, but I was wondering if
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:46.950
there is a spiritual component as well.
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:48.870
Do you think there is such a thing as
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.549
inherited collective karma in families?
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:54.390
How about more broadly in nations,
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:57.029
races, cultures, etc. Aside from your
00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:58.549
opinion, what is the Buddhist
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:00.390
perspective on inherited collective
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:01.590
karma? Okay, let's start with the
00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:04.310
Buddhist perspective. Buddhism just
00:26:04.320 --> 00:26:07.190
rejects the idea of group karma. You
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:09.190
know, it's it's kind of like the
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:12.470
controversy in evolutionary biology
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:14.950
where you've got some evolutionary
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.149
biologists saying that is only at the
00:26:18.159 --> 00:26:20.630
individual level that evolution occurs.
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.710
You know, that the the individual is
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:24.710
successful in reproducing his genes or
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.590
not. And so like a population this kind
00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:29.430
of thing, you know, it's it's just kind
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.830
of like an illusion that populations
00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:34.950
evolve aside from just at the individual
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.870
level, the individual organism
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:38.789
reproduces or fails to reproduce or
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:41.510
reproduces more or reproduces less or
00:26:41.520 --> 00:26:44.789
not at all etc. But then there are some
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:47.110
evolutionary biologists and I can I can
00:26:47.120 --> 00:26:49.029
relate to this. I really do do not fully
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:50.870
comprehend the argument that you cannot
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.789
have group evolution like the evolution
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.230
of a of a population. I mean obviously
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.710
um societies evolve and a society is
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.390
like a group of individuals. It's a
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:04.710
population.
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:06.950
So culture obviously can can have a
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.269
group effect like an alphabet or a
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:12.230
language can evolve that isn't just at
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.630
the individual level like the individual
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.149
speaks that language or doesn't speak
00:27:16.159 --> 00:27:19.269
that language.
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:20.870
But
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.430
I can kind of appreciate the Terra
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:27.269
Buddhist explanation of how there seems
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:29.510
to be group karma without there really
00:27:29.520 --> 00:27:31.830
being group karma. And that is for
00:27:31.840 --> 00:27:33.750
example
00:27:33.760 --> 00:27:36.950
um individuals uh just using the term
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:38.950
individual even though in Buddhism there
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.350
is no self no soul that reincarnates
00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:43.430
anything like that but you've got like
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:47.110
these these sort of currents of karmic
00:27:47.120 --> 00:27:49.590
momentum
00:27:49.600 --> 00:27:53.669
and in order to be born into a family
00:27:53.679 --> 00:27:56.310
you have to have like similar karma to
00:27:56.320 --> 00:27:59.190
them in order to be experiencing the
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.990
same kind of things and also it may be
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.310
that at least some of your family
00:28:04.320 --> 00:28:06.630
members I mean you've have like a
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:08.310
multi-life
00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:13.110
relationship going like um Edgar Casey
00:28:13.120 --> 00:28:14.789
used to say that we tend to have a
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:17.350
strong karmic relation to one of our
00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:20.470
parents but usually not both. So in that
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:22.630
case I was more had more of a karmic
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:24.710
relationship with my father than with my
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:28.389
mother. But still you can't wind up in a
00:28:28.399 --> 00:28:30.950
family unless your karma is compatible
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.510
with that. Similar with a culture you
00:28:33.520 --> 00:28:37.830
know it's like um lately you know I mean
00:28:37.840 --> 00:28:39.669
during the course of my lifetime people
00:28:39.679 --> 00:28:42.549
have referred to like the Middle East is
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:44.950
just a hotbed of violence and war you
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.590
know it's just been a battlefield since
00:28:47.600 --> 00:28:51.350
prehistoric times literally. And so they
00:28:51.360 --> 00:28:53.430
will use that as an example of like
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.710
group karma or regional karma. But I
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.430
mean you can just interpret that from
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.750
the more Buddhistic more orthodox
00:29:01.760 --> 00:29:03.990
terravada Buddhist point of view and
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.110
that if you have that kind of karma then
00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:08.630
you're just going to be reborn in that
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:10.470
kind of society
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:13.190
in in that kind of in that part of the
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:18.149
world. So, it's just more of um certain
00:29:18.159 --> 00:29:21.029
cultures attract certain people with
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:24.149
certain karmic dispositions and needs
00:29:24.159 --> 00:29:26.710
and requirements and so forth um more
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:29.669
than other cultures.
00:29:29.679 --> 00:29:32.789
So I mean it's not necessary to have
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.149
group karma in order to explain like the
00:29:36.159 --> 00:29:38.870
karmic similarities of members of a
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:41.029
family or the karmic similarities of
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.430
members of a nation or a society. It's
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.029
just that if you have this kind of
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.350
karma, you're going to be reborn into
00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:51.190
this kind of family or you're going to
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:55.590
be born into this kind of society.
00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:57.350
So
00:29:57.360 --> 00:29:59.269
I mean
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:01.909
I can kind of accept the the Buddhist
00:30:01.919 --> 00:30:03.590
explanation that there is no such thing
00:30:03.600 --> 00:30:06.149
as group karma
00:30:06.159 --> 00:30:07.830
with regard to evolution. I think that
00:30:07.840 --> 00:30:10.310
there might be group evolution in a
00:30:10.320 --> 00:30:13.909
sense but I can accept that you know
00:30:13.919 --> 00:30:16.070
it's subjective. You know morality is
00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:18.389
subjective and your karma is subjective
00:30:18.399 --> 00:30:20.149
even though ultimately there's no
00:30:20.159 --> 00:30:23.990
subject. That's just kind of a
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:27.029
gosh a virtual reality because because
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:34.549
this whole world is a virtual reality.
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.350
So let's see here.
00:30:37.360 --> 00:30:39.110
Yeah, I mean I'm I'm willing to go with
00:30:39.120 --> 00:30:42.149
the idea that just beings or you know
00:30:42.159 --> 00:30:44.549
karmic streams that have similar
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:46.950
requirements with regard to their karma
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:49.669
just wind up together. that it's not the
00:30:49.679 --> 00:30:52.870
group karma. It's just that my my
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.350
individual karma fits in with this other
00:30:55.360 --> 00:30:58.230
individual's karma that it's or karma is
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.710
going to be reach fruition more
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.990
effectively by us being together and so
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:09.750
it just happens that way naturally.
00:31:09.760 --> 00:31:11.990
That would be the official terra
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.990
Buddhist explanation and I am inclined
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:16.789
to go along with that.
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:17.830
And so I'm just going to move on to the
00:31:17.840 --> 00:31:19.830
next question. This is from Cioction Cad
00:31:19.840 --> 00:31:21.430
Zedena.
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:26.710
And COVID cadet specializes in sending
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:29.750
me like a a screenshot of this big block
00:31:29.760 --> 00:31:32.070
of text and asking me to respond to that
00:31:32.080 --> 00:31:33.909
or sending me a video, you know,
00:31:33.919 --> 00:31:36.870
thoughts, this kind of stuff. So he's
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.070
he's kind of done that this in this
00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:42.310
episode.
00:31:42.320 --> 00:31:44.870
He says if enlightenment doesn't require
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:47.110
the ending of desire so someone like
00:31:47.120 --> 00:31:48.950
Krishna Murdy can have sex with his
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.470
friend's wife and be considered
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:52.710
enlightened but just going with the flow
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:55.509
of karma then wouldn't someone like this
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:57.750
be the ultimate enlightened being living
00:31:57.760 --> 00:31:59.909
only in the present moment with no past
00:31:59.919 --> 00:32:01.909
or future but just going with the flow
00:32:01.919 --> 00:32:04.389
of karma and then parenthesis he says
00:32:04.399 --> 00:32:06.789
you can replace the racial words with
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:10.470
people for the video I didn't mean it in
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.789
a racist way but rather just the idea
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.350
behind it. And he he sends me it's like
00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:18.870
four paragraphs that contain well I mean
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:20.549
I won't even say what the racial slur
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:22.549
is. I mean it's an extremely derogatory
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.350
racial slur that is found probably 50
00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:28.870
times many times in this this little
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:30.789
block of language. And he's talking
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:33.110
about certain people
00:32:33.120 --> 00:32:36.149
who I mean they really do not identify
00:32:36.159 --> 00:32:38.230
with their future self or presumably
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:39.750
their past self. You know they're just
00:32:39.760 --> 00:32:41.669
living in the moment.
00:32:41.679 --> 00:32:44.310
And so they have no con regard for
00:32:44.320 --> 00:32:47.430
consequences. You know, it's like I I've
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:48.789
thought about this with regard to like
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.350
devil worshippers where they're they're
00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:53.110
willing to sell their soul. Just going
00:32:53.120 --> 00:32:55.509
with the stereotype. They sell their
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:57.269
soul
00:32:57.279 --> 00:32:59.430
um to the devil. you know, they're
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.509
willing to burn in hell forever and ever
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:05.430
in exchange for, say, 10 years of fame
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:08.549
and wealth and pleasure, which is just
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:12.149
like an absurd bad deal. But a lot of
00:33:12.159 --> 00:33:14.549
people are willing to go with that. So,
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.710
it's like they don't even have sympathy
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:19.509
or empathy for their own future self,
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.230
much less anybody else. But they it's
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:23.750
like
00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:26.630
in a in a way it's just like the extreme
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:29.990
of just sort of selfishness where you
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.070
don't even care about your future self.
00:33:32.080 --> 00:33:35.430
It's just me now,
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:37.909
which strikes me as particularly
00:33:37.919 --> 00:33:41.110
foolish.
00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:43.029
But anyways, you got a person who's just
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:44.710
living in the present moment like an
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.549
animal. I mean, why not just say
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.190
animals? You know, why bring certain
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:51.029
groups of people into this when you
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.110
could just say animals and animals, you
00:33:53.120 --> 00:33:55.750
know, like a dog or like there's a dog
00:33:55.760 --> 00:33:59.350
that just came in,
00:33:59.360 --> 00:34:00.789
you know, they just live in the present
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:03.509
moment. And Ekhart Tollah says that
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:05.990
animals are in a way enlightened except
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.470
for a few domesticated animals that have
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:11.190
become neurotic through too much
00:34:11.200 --> 00:34:13.430
intimate contact with the neurosis of
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.510
human beings. But for the most part,
00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:17.669
according to Echart Tullah in his famous
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:20.310
book, the power of now, most animals are
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.310
enlightened. But it's a different kind
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.310
of enlightenment
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:25.990
from
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.950
like the enlightenment of God Buddha for
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:30.470
example.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:34.389
It's like God Buddha is like this more
00:34:34.399 --> 00:34:36.149
comprehensive kind of enlightenment
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:37.829
whereas the enlightenment of an animal
00:34:37.839 --> 00:34:40.389
is just sort of limited within the the
00:34:40.399 --> 00:34:42.550
context. you know, it's it's still, you
00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:43.669
know, from the Buddhist point of view,
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:45.589
animals are in a lower realm. They're
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:49.030
not enlightened at all, but at least
00:34:49.040 --> 00:34:51.270
they're they're in the present moment.
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:53.589
They're they're not creating a bunch of
00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:56.389
unnecessary suffering for themselves by
00:34:56.399 --> 00:34:58.550
worrying about the future or feeling
00:34:58.560 --> 00:35:00.630
regrets about the past or wondering
00:35:00.640 --> 00:35:02.230
what's going on like what the neighbors
00:35:02.240 --> 00:35:05.030
are thinking, that kind of stuff. So in
00:35:05.040 --> 00:35:08.950
a way animals they have less delusion
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:11.349
and foolishness than we do. Partly just
00:35:11.359 --> 00:35:12.790
because we have bigger minds that can
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.829
hold more of it.
00:35:15.839 --> 00:35:18.790
Like a cow is just keeps five precepts
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:20.470
pretty much effortlessly and just seems
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.030
pretty placid and serene most of the
00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:24.630
time. And from the Buddhist point of
00:35:24.640 --> 00:35:28.390
view cow is not fully enlightened.
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.190
But seal of action cipad zerite here
00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:32.950
really isn't talking about a Buddhist
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:34.710
conception of enlightenment unless
00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:36.470
you're getting into like the tantric
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:39.829
stuff or some of those Zen masters you
00:35:39.839 --> 00:35:42.710
know some of those Zen masters they you
00:35:42.720 --> 00:35:44.150
know they were kind of getting into the
00:35:44.160 --> 00:35:47.910
realm of of Krishna Murdy
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:51.670
so let's see says the enlightenment
00:35:51.680 --> 00:35:54.950
doesn't require the ending of desire
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:57.750
um I mean it there's different ways of
00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:59.430
ending ending desire. One way of ending
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:02.790
it is just to transcend it and in a way
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:05.109
sort of transmute it, denature it, which
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:07.190
is what I keep talking about and people
00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:10.150
just do not get it that you can
00:36:10.160 --> 00:36:12.710
transcend it. It's like you're watching
00:36:12.720 --> 00:36:15.990
a movie. It's it's like a suspenseful
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.630
scary kind of movie and I mean your
00:36:18.640 --> 00:36:20.150
heart's beating faster. You know, you're
00:36:20.160 --> 00:36:21.270
kind of on the edge of your seat
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.670
because, you know, the person in the
00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:26.230
movie might get killed in some horrible
00:36:26.240 --> 00:36:29.030
way. And then you just remind yourself
00:36:29.040 --> 00:36:31.829
it's just a movie. That doesn't stop the
00:36:31.839 --> 00:36:33.829
stuff from happening. It's just that you
00:36:33.839 --> 00:36:36.710
have just kind of risen to a higher
00:36:36.720 --> 00:36:41.190
level. You know, King Lear raging at the
00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:44.310
storm, going mad with grief. I mean, at
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:47.750
one level it's King Lear going mad with
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.390
grief out on the heath in the storm, but
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:53.670
at another level it's this actor who's
00:36:53.680 --> 00:36:57.109
just saying his lines,
00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:59.910
you know, and
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.790
I mean, enlightenment can work that way
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:05.910
where you're still apparently like
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.310
wallowing in samsara, but your
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:10.790
consciousness has just risen above that
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:15.190
level.
00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:18.950
So, I mean, some people just do not and
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:20.790
cannot get this kind of stuff where
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:21.910
you're talking about two different
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.230
levels of reality simultaneously.
00:37:24.240 --> 00:37:29.910
It just does not work.
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:32.230
So, let's see here.
00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:34.310
Yeah, in a case of like Krishna Mie,
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.550
just going for the sake of argument,
00:37:36.560 --> 00:37:39.910
let's just say Jidu Krishna Murdy was
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:41.990
really an enlightened being. Even though
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.589
he messed around with his personal
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:47.910
secretary's wife, he wore a toupe.
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.150
You know, he he did stuff that a fully
00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:52.630
enlightened being stereotypically
00:37:52.640 --> 00:37:55.910
traditionally isn't supposed to do.
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:58.390
But if you just assume
00:37:58.400 --> 00:37:59.910
that
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:02.630
he just was at a higher level of
00:38:02.640 --> 00:38:04.069
consciousness, the [ __ ] that's
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:06.310
supposedly happening in samsara is still
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:08.390
happening, but he's not identifying with
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:10.390
it anymore.
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:14.150
So the desire, you know, at at like a
00:38:14.160 --> 00:38:16.310
subjective level maybe, but he's not
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:17.910
being subjective anymore, just going
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:20.790
with the argument.
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:23.109
So, you know, there's there's still
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.470
desire, but he's just not identified
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:28.630
with that anymore. And even like a fully
00:38:28.640 --> 00:38:30.230
enlightened being like the Buddha, I
00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:33.030
mean, he still had apparently, if we can
00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:35.270
if we can believe the texts, he still
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.349
had like preferences,
00:38:37.359 --> 00:38:39.430
you know, he still had to have motives
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:42.150
for his behavior, which could be
00:38:42.160 --> 00:38:44.470
considered a kind of desire. And it's
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:46.390
just that
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:48.310
I mean when you're enlightened being
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:49.990
you're just not identified with this
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.710
stuff anymore.
00:38:52.720 --> 00:38:54.870
And it's it's like this two-dimensional
00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:58.310
thinking that just cannot comprehend the
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:01.510
idea that you're just going to transcend
00:39:01.520 --> 00:39:03.430
samsara
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.790
with samsara still being here without
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:08.870
being stuck in it and by identifying
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:11.430
with it anymore.
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:16.470
So it's a matter of perspective.
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.270
So let's see here.
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:21.990
Where's the question? Okay. Wouldn't
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.510
someone like this, you know, or like
00:39:23.520 --> 00:39:26.150
let's just say an animal be the ultimate
00:39:26.160 --> 00:39:28.310
enlightened being living only in the
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:29.990
present moment with no past or future
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.069
but just going with the flow of karma?
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:33.670
Well, I mean because they're still
00:39:33.680 --> 00:39:36.310
deluded, they're still creating new
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:37.670
karma, which an enlightened being
00:39:37.680 --> 00:39:39.829
doesn't do. So that would be like one
00:39:39.839 --> 00:39:42.870
technical difference between like say an
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:44.470
animal who's totally in the present
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.390
moment. They're still creating karma.
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:48.470
They still have desires and attachments
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:50.870
and so forth. Um they haven't really
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:53.109
risen above it. Supposedly a fully
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:54.950
enlightened being is not creating new
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:57.589
karma. There's still the old karma
00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:59.589
that's working itself out until the
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:01.990
enlightened being dies.
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:03.829
But they're not creating new karma by
00:40:03.839 --> 00:40:05.430
what they're doing. Even though there
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:07.589
may still be some kind of vestigial
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:09.670
desires and stuff going on, it's just
00:40:09.680 --> 00:40:11.349
that they have risen above that, they're
00:40:11.359 --> 00:40:14.150
not identifying with it anymore.
00:40:14.160 --> 00:40:16.470
I mean, if they had totally
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:19.349
like risen above karma to the extent of
00:40:19.359 --> 00:40:21.030
just eliminating it, they wouldn't have
00:40:21.040 --> 00:40:25.270
anything even happening to them.
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:26.870
Which gets into a whole different kind
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.109
of argument. I mean it's you're you're
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:30.710
straying from the realm of terravada
00:40:30.720 --> 00:40:33.750
Buddhism by giving the idea that you
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:34.950
know a fully enlightened being isn't
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:38.310
even really here. They're just you know
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:41.109
our our our own karma is like projecting
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:43.670
the semblance of some enlightened being
00:40:43.680 --> 00:40:45.589
out there
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:47.910
but they don't have any karma sustaining
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.470
themselves. It's all just generated by
00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:53.349
the karma of unenlightened beings who
00:40:53.359 --> 00:40:55.990
who need this kind of enlightened
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:58.470
teacher, you know, to fulfill their own
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:00.470
karma.
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:01.829
But that's getting kind of complicated
00:41:01.839 --> 00:41:06.550
and confusing, isn't it?
00:41:06.560 --> 00:41:09.589
But you say a baby or an animal, they're
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:11.670
not the ultimate enlightened being. Even
00:41:11.680 --> 00:41:12.790
though they may be in the present
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:14.630
moment, they might not be thinking in
00:41:14.640 --> 00:41:17.910
words.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:21.270
They still have latent tendencies that
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.670
really they haven't freed themselves
00:41:23.680 --> 00:41:27.750
from,
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:31.829
not even through transcendence.
00:41:31.839 --> 00:41:33.430
But it's hard to explain, which is
00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:35.910
probably one reason why so few people
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:38.550
really understand it.
00:41:38.560 --> 00:41:40.230
But you get into like the Zen masters
00:41:40.240 --> 00:41:43.349
and some of the the tantric Tibetan
00:41:43.359 --> 00:41:45.510
teachers and so forth, it's the same
00:41:45.520 --> 00:41:47.510
kind of a deal. I mean, it's getting
00:41:47.520 --> 00:41:53.430
closer to Buddhism, but it's uh
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:55.829
I mean, it's just a matter of
00:41:55.839 --> 00:41:58.550
transcending samsara. You you don't just
00:41:58.560 --> 00:42:00.309
eliminate samsara when you become
00:42:00.319 --> 00:42:03.190
enlightened. You rise above samsara in a
00:42:03.200 --> 00:42:05.430
sense. You stop identifying with it. You
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:07.990
are I mean, you're operating at a higher
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.870
level of consciousness that still might
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:14.390
include this samsaric stuff, but it's
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:18.230
just not you anymore.
00:42:18.240 --> 00:42:19.990
And it's hard to understand which is why
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.270
so many people don't understand it.
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:24.390
And I'm just going to move on to the
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:26.069
next question. This is from also from
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:29.190
sea of action sepatna.
00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:33.430
He says and I quote, "There are jotaka
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:35.430
tales of the Buddha giving his wife and
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:37.990
kids away, letting animals eat him when
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.390
he was a rabbit, and many other tales of
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:43.030
extreme charity. I can't tell how the
00:42:43.040 --> 00:42:45.829
bodhic sattva ideal is any different
00:42:45.839 --> 00:42:48.550
than being a suicidal empathyridden
00:42:48.560 --> 00:42:50.870
leftist because all three of the above
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:52.870
situations are mocking the attitudes of
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.349
leftist if taken to its ultimate
00:42:55.359 --> 00:42:57.510
conclusion and it looks less extreme
00:42:57.520 --> 00:42:59.430
than bodhicattva activities. Please
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:01.030
explain.
00:43:01.040 --> 00:43:03.510
Well, I will say the jotaka story of the
00:43:03.520 --> 00:43:06.550
the Buddha who was in a previous life a
00:43:06.560 --> 00:43:10.150
wise hair the sasa jotaka it's called.
00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:13.270
He wasn't he wasn't throwing himself
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.829
into the fire to cook himself for the
00:43:15.839 --> 00:43:18.550
sake of other animals. It was just that
00:43:18.560 --> 00:43:21.190
Saka, king of gods, disguised himself as
00:43:21.200 --> 00:43:24.309
a Brahman holy man. And so the rabbit or
00:43:24.319 --> 00:43:27.750
the the hair had decided in advance that
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:31.349
day that if any kind of wandering holy
00:43:31.359 --> 00:43:33.750
man came by, he was going to offer him
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.309
food. And then he realized wandering
00:43:36.319 --> 00:43:39.030
holy men don't eat clover or whatever
00:43:39.040 --> 00:43:41.670
like rabbits do. So he was going to just
00:43:41.680 --> 00:43:45.349
emulate himself, cook his own meat to
00:43:45.359 --> 00:43:47.829
offer to this Brahman holy man. And it
00:43:47.839 --> 00:43:49.270
turned out that it was Saka, king of
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:51.030
gods, disguised as a holy man, just
00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:54.550
testing this hair. And as a result of
00:43:54.560 --> 00:43:57.510
that, the the rabbit really did fling
00:43:57.520 --> 00:43:59.670
himself into the fire to cook himself so
00:43:59.680 --> 00:44:01.510
that this holy man could eat the rabbit
00:44:01.520 --> 00:44:05.750
meat. And because it was really Saka,
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:09.910
king of gods or formerly known as Indra,
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:12.870
he uh caused the rabbit not to be burned
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:16.470
by the fire and then rewarded that hair
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:20.069
by taking the the juice of a mountain,
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:22.470
squeezing the juice out of a mountain
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:25.510
and making the image of a rabbit the
00:44:25.520 --> 00:44:29.190
hair on the surface of the moon. So in
00:44:29.200 --> 00:44:32.150
uh like ancient Indian Buddhism, there
00:44:32.160 --> 00:44:34.710
was no man in the moon. It was the hair
00:44:34.720 --> 00:44:36.230
in the moon. And if you look, it does
00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:39.349
seem like it really is a rabbit. It's
00:44:39.359 --> 00:44:41.030
just kind of turned sideways, but it's
00:44:41.040 --> 00:44:42.390
like the man in the moon, like one of
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.030
his eyes has like these two streaks
00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:46.550
coming out. Those are the ears of the
00:44:46.560 --> 00:44:48.630
rabbit.
00:44:48.640 --> 00:44:50.950
So some people have used that to argue
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:54.150
that the Buddha is the man in the moon.
00:44:54.160 --> 00:44:57.109
But I digress.
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:00.390
Um, some of these tales of like the the
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:03.349
Buddha in a previous life or some arant
00:45:03.359 --> 00:45:06.390
or some other wise being just like
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:08.150
complet just giving away their own wife
00:45:08.160 --> 00:45:10.390
and children for example like there's
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:12.870
that completely Monty Pythonesque
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:16.309
biography of Mongala Buddha that's found
00:45:16.319 --> 00:45:19.589
in the the Buddha in its commentaries
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:22.150
where
00:45:22.160 --> 00:45:24.230
Mangala Buddha in a previous life before
00:45:24.240 --> 00:45:26.710
he was the Buddha he was a Buddhist Saut
00:45:26.720 --> 00:45:30.150
he he gave away his kids to an ogre
00:45:30.160 --> 00:45:32.470
disguised as a Brahman. And then the
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:35.670
ogre just starts eating his kids, the
00:45:35.680 --> 00:45:37.750
kids of the bodhicatta. And the bodhic
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:41.990
sata instead of being alarmed by an ogre
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.670
eating his children, he was rejoicing.
00:45:45.680 --> 00:45:49.510
He was delighted at his his superhuman
00:45:49.520 --> 00:45:52.069
act of charity, giving away his own kids
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:55.430
to be devoured by an ogre.
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.589
And it's that kind of stuff. I mean,
00:45:57.599 --> 00:45:59.589
it's just completely leaving reality
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:01.190
behind,
00:46:01.200 --> 00:46:03.190
you know, it's just making like a
00:46:03.200 --> 00:46:07.589
complete extreme case for I mean, partly
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:09.670
it's glorification of the founder of a
00:46:09.680 --> 00:46:12.470
religion like he is capable of this
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:15.430
level of generosity or virtue or
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:17.349
whatever that leaves ordinary human
00:46:17.359 --> 00:46:19.750
beings far behind. It's just as a way of
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:22.950
glorifying this person, but it just
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.670
makes them a kind of monster in a
00:46:25.680 --> 00:46:27.670
certain way.
00:46:27.680 --> 00:46:29.829
I mean, there is one story of the Buddha
00:46:29.839 --> 00:46:31.670
in a previous life. I don't remember if
00:46:31.680 --> 00:46:34.150
it's a Jotica story or if it's just in
00:46:34.160 --> 00:46:37.190
the commentary somewhere where he was a
00:46:37.200 --> 00:46:40.390
farmer and he had his little boy come
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:42.470
with him out into the fields. and his
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:43.990
little boy was just playing in the shade
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.550
of a tree while the father, the bodhic
00:46:46.560 --> 00:46:49.829
sata, was plowing the fields. And so the
00:46:49.839 --> 00:46:51.829
father, you know, he's glancing over at
00:46:51.839 --> 00:46:53.910
his kid to make sure the kid's okay
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:56.230
because, you know, he's he's a father.
00:46:56.240 --> 00:46:58.630
And then he at one point he notices the
00:46:58.640 --> 00:47:00.390
little kid is just lying motionless on
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:02.790
the ground. So he he hurries over and
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:04.230
finds out that the little kid has been
00:47:04.240 --> 00:47:06.630
bitten by a snake and is no longer
00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:08.309
alive.
00:47:08.319 --> 00:47:11.990
So what the bodhicatta does,
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.870
I mean he can't save the kid. The field
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:17.750
still needs to be plowed. So he just
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.550
finishes his plowing before taking the
00:47:20.560 --> 00:47:23.589
body of his child back to the village.
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:26.950
And I mean that maybe is kind of
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:28.470
believable. I mean that could be
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:35.109
indicative of some kind of wisdom maybe.
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:37.109
But I mean, giving your own kids away
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:41.109
and rejoicing as an ogre devour them, I
00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:43.589
mean, that is just not human at all. I I
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:46.790
that's just like a a madeup silly story.
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.829
And you can find lots of those in the
00:47:49.839 --> 00:47:51.030
text, especially like in the
00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:53.349
commentarial tradition.
00:47:53.359 --> 00:47:55.589
It's like people get so caught up in the
00:47:55.599 --> 00:47:58.390
religious mindset, the devotionalistic
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:00.309
religious mindset, that they just kind
00:48:00.319 --> 00:48:05.430
of leave common sense reality behind.
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:07.750
So what's the actual question here?
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:09.109
Let's see. I can't tell how the
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:12.390
bodhicattva ideal or bodhicatta ideal
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:15.109
going with terra is any different than
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:17.750
being a suicidal empathyridden leftist.
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:19.190
You're not supposed to say that s word
00:48:19.200 --> 00:48:21.750
on YouTube I'm pretty sure because all
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:23.270
three of the above situations are
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.990
mocking the attitudes of leftists. Yeah.
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:27.910
It's like the what is it? The reductio
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:29.829
adabsurdum.
00:48:29.839 --> 00:48:32.710
if taken to its ultimate conclusion and
00:48:32.720 --> 00:48:35.190
it looks less extreme than bodhicatta
00:48:35.200 --> 00:48:38.950
activities. I mean yeah the I guess the
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:43.109
one kind of saving grace of Buddhism is
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:44.309
that you're supposed to completely
00:48:44.319 --> 00:48:46.710
renounce society to do this kind of
00:48:46.720 --> 00:48:49.030
stuff that I mean you cannot really be a
00:48:49.040 --> 00:48:51.430
functioning member of society and then
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:53.270
just like give your kids away to ogres
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:56.309
to be eaten that kind of thing. I mean,
00:48:56.319 --> 00:48:58.549
kind of it says it was that way in the
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:00.549
texts or in the in the commentary or
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:04.069
whatever, but yeah, a society is not
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:05.990
going to work if that that kind of stuff
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:10.230
goes mainstream.
00:49:10.240 --> 00:49:13.109
So yeah, I mean both of these are just a
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.910
case of like
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:19.510
like virtueoriented idealism just going
00:49:19.520 --> 00:49:21.990
to its logical extreme until you have
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.630
left practical reality far behind in the
00:49:24.640 --> 00:49:29.589
dust.
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:31.510
So, I mean, I don't know if there's
00:49:31.520 --> 00:49:33.270
really all that much more I can say
00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:35.190
about this,
00:49:35.200 --> 00:49:37.990
but it's I mean, it's just silly stories
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:39.589
that you're going to find in ancient
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.589
poly texts or medieval poly
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:43.510
commentaries.
00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:45.349
And there's quite a lot of silly stuff
00:49:45.359 --> 00:49:49.349
in there if you look for it.
00:49:49.359 --> 00:49:51.589
But I mean
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.750
maybe if you are a fully enlightened
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:56.309
being or very close you're you're a very
00:49:56.319 --> 00:50:00.150
advanced saint you may be able to get
00:50:00.160 --> 00:50:04.390
away with some of this stuff. Um like
00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:06.790
one example that's a famous Zen story.
00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.230
You've got this Zen monk who's living in
00:50:10.240 --> 00:50:13.109
some hut out in the woods and a robber
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:15.670
comes in and the robber's going to
00:50:15.680 --> 00:50:18.549
steal, you know, this monk's stuff. And
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:21.030
the monk asks him to to leave a little
00:50:21.040 --> 00:50:22.710
bit of money because it's okay for Zen
00:50:22.720 --> 00:50:24.630
monks to handle money because he needs
00:50:24.640 --> 00:50:27.109
it for something. And then the robber
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:29.670
just for whatever reason, I think most
00:50:29.680 --> 00:50:31.670
robbers wouldn't do it, but this robber,
00:50:31.680 --> 00:50:33.109
you know, just leaves a little bit of
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:34.950
money like the monk asked and takes the
00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:37.190
rest. And then as he's leaving, the monk
00:50:37.200 --> 00:50:38.549
is like looking out the window at the
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.030
full moon and thinking it's it's a pity
00:50:41.040 --> 00:50:42.790
I couldn't give him this beautiful full
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:44.870
moon. You know, this kind of question,
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:46.549
which might also be just like some
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:48.549
madeup legend,
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:51.190
but like a saint can maybe do that kind
00:50:51.200 --> 00:50:53.349
of stuff, but a society cannot run on
00:50:53.359 --> 00:50:55.990
principles like this.
00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:57.990
People are selfish because there is
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:01.270
survival value, evolutionary survival
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:04.870
value in being selfish.
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:09.670
for example.
00:51:09.680 --> 00:51:11.670
H
00:51:11.680 --> 00:51:14.309
So I mean if you're a saint maybe you
00:51:14.319 --> 00:51:15.990
can indulge in a certain amount of
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:18.230
virtuous extremism
00:51:18.240 --> 00:51:20.150
but a society just isn't going to work
00:51:20.160 --> 00:51:21.829
on principles like that not for very
00:51:21.839 --> 00:51:24.069
long anyhow.
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:25.670
So I'm just going to move on to see of
00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:29.589
action ci's next question.
00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:34.230
He says, "I was watching this video and
00:51:34.240 --> 00:51:36.549
u the video is about men being more
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:38.549
likely to die of a broken heart than
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:41.430
women are." And then he continues, "I'm
00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:43.190
guessing he's speaking about American
00:51:43.200 --> 00:51:45.190
culture and maybe his Indian culture
00:51:45.200 --> 00:51:48.150
since he mentioned biology. I want to
00:51:48.160 --> 00:51:50.549
know whether you think this is a genetic
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:53.670
flaw in males or if it is a kind of
00:51:53.680 --> 00:51:56.230
cultural sickness and not present in
00:51:56.240 --> 00:51:58.870
places like Burma or maybe it is a
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:00.790
modern trend. I want to know your
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:02.790
thoughts on the subject cuz it seems
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:04.710
clearly maladaptive and kind of pathetic
00:52:04.720 --> 00:52:06.950
I have to say and section and cadena is
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:09.190
just blackpilled and sees everything
00:52:09.200 --> 00:52:13.109
through a lens of negativity.
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:16.230
Anyways, so yeah, it's uh there's this
00:52:16.240 --> 00:52:18.470
little video where some person maybe a
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:21.190
doctor is talking about how men are more
00:52:21.200 --> 00:52:23.510
likely literally to die of a broken
00:52:23.520 --> 00:52:25.670
heart. Like to die of heart failure
00:52:25.680 --> 00:52:28.549
after a divorce or just lose the will to
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.950
live and just give up after your mate
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:32.870
dies when when you're both very old.
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:34.390
Like Jimmy Stewart was like that. The
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:37.030
famous actor Jimmy Stewart, his I mean
00:52:37.040 --> 00:52:38.710
he loved his wife very much. They were
00:52:38.720 --> 00:52:40.790
very happy together apparently. And
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.950
after she passed away, you know, it was
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:46.549
sort of like a a male swan or a crane or
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:49.270
a stork or something that mate for life.
00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:51.670
And once he lost his mate, I mean, he
00:52:51.680 --> 00:52:54.390
just kind of moped and just kind of went
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.069
downhill and died just a few weeks
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:58.710
later.
00:52:58.720 --> 00:53:01.589
And I mean, it's it's this way in Burma
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:03.829
also, like I've probably mentioned this
00:53:03.839 --> 00:53:06.549
before, the stereotypical tearjerker
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:09.349
romance movie in Burma that you see when
00:53:09.359 --> 00:53:13.430
riding the the bus between Manderlay and
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:15.990
and Rangon. You know, you got to watch
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:19.030
these cheesy Burmese movies
00:53:19.040 --> 00:53:23.510
and just the st just the standard theme
00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:26.150
of some Burmese romance movie. I mean,
00:53:26.160 --> 00:53:28.470
there's no telling how many dozens of
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:29.910
these movies have been made following
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:33.589
the same template. You've got a young
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:37.030
man of lower social status, falls in
00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:40.309
love with the rich girl, and they they
00:53:40.319 --> 00:53:42.710
love each other just deliriously,
00:53:42.720 --> 00:53:45.190
and then they kind of run off together.
00:53:45.200 --> 00:53:47.910
But the father of the girl absolutely
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:50.630
will not stand for his daughter marrying
00:53:50.640 --> 00:53:52.630
this, you know, he's like some street
00:53:52.640 --> 00:53:55.109
vendor or something, some bike shaw
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:58.549
driver. So like the girl's elder
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.190
brothers or just some goons hired by the
00:54:01.200 --> 00:54:03.990
father seek them out, beat the [ __ ] out
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:06.230
of the guy, and drag the girl home
00:54:06.240 --> 00:54:09.430
again. And the father requires her to
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:11.670
marry some rich guy who's a complete
00:54:11.680 --> 00:54:13.270
[ __ ]
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:16.870
So what happens is the guy who you know
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:18.870
the the man the the man and the woman
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:20.470
they they loved each other. They get
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:23.670
separated. The man drinks himself to
00:54:23.680 --> 00:54:26.470
death usually drinking Johnny Walker Red
00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:28.630
Label which probably helps to account
00:54:28.640 --> 00:54:30.549
for the for the early decease of this
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:34.470
fellow whereas the girl boohoos for a
00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:36.309
few days and then winds up marrying the
00:54:36.319 --> 00:54:38.549
rich guy that her father required her to
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:40.549
marry.
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:43.589
And I do think it's just I mean it's not
00:54:43.599 --> 00:54:49.030
a genetic flaw in males that males take
00:54:49.040 --> 00:54:52.710
commitments more seriously than women.
00:54:52.720 --> 00:54:56.069
You know, like in in America, most
00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:59.109
divorces, you know, something like 70%
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:01.349
most divorces is it's the woman who
00:55:01.359 --> 00:55:03.430
files. And in a lot of cases, she's just
00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:05.430
vaguely dissatisfied and thinks she can
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:08.069
do better.
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:12.069
But I remember one of the first
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:14.390
important books I ever read. I was about
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:17.190
14 years old. I read The Naked Ape by
00:55:17.200 --> 00:55:21.109
Desmond Morris. And Desmond Morris
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:24.390
points out that men, for example, tend
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:27.670
to have more lifelong friends than women
00:55:27.680 --> 00:55:30.790
do. You know, it's like men form a like
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:35.030
stronger bonds with other people. Even
00:55:35.040 --> 00:55:36.790
though women are more sort of
00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:39.109
interpersonal interactionoriented than
00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:41.670
men are, men tend to take it more
00:55:41.680 --> 00:55:44.069
seriously. And according to Desmond
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:46.630
Morris, one of the reasons for this is
00:55:46.640 --> 00:55:48.710
that men would be forming, you know,
00:55:48.720 --> 00:55:50.870
like men back in a huntergatherer
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:53.829
society, every able-bodied young man is
00:55:53.839 --> 00:55:55.910
a warrior for the tribe with few
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:58.230
exceptions. And so they're relying on
00:55:58.240 --> 00:56:00.870
each other to to have each other's back
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:02.870
in intertribal warfare and when they're
00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:05.589
out hunting mammoths and cave bears and
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:07.670
this kind of stuff. So it's just you
00:56:07.680 --> 00:56:09.990
need a stronger cohesive group where
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:11.750
everybody sticks up for everybody else.
00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:13.670
Whereas women, you know, they're more
00:56:13.680 --> 00:56:15.270
likely to get traded off to another
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:17.990
tribe for for mating purposes. You know,
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:20.549
there's like a swap of new young women
00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:22.710
between these two tribes. Or it may be
00:56:22.720 --> 00:56:24.710
there's intertribal warfare. the woman
00:56:24.720 --> 00:56:26.950
just gets snatched out of her tribe and
00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:28.630
taken to some other tribe where she's
00:56:28.640 --> 00:56:29.990
got to have a whole different set of
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:31.990
friends worshiping a whole different set
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:33.589
of gods maybe speaking a different
00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:36.470
language and all this. So women are just
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:38.230
more adaptable
00:56:38.240 --> 00:56:40.710
whereas men are more likely to form
00:56:40.720 --> 00:56:45.109
these like strong lasting bonds between
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:46.789
each other and apparently also with
00:56:46.799 --> 00:56:50.549
their mate.
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:52.630
So I would guess that that is like the
00:56:52.640 --> 00:56:55.430
main evolutionary genetic component of
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:57.270
this
00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.950
that women are just more likely to just
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.950
be removed from one like tribal group
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:07.270
and and like transplanted into another
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:09.030
one. So they have to like be more
00:57:09.040 --> 00:57:11.030
flexible with regard to this thing. And
00:57:11.040 --> 00:57:12.950
there wasn't as much need for them
00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:14.390
except with regard to like their own
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.109
children that they have like these
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:20.630
lifelong commitments where you know it's
00:57:20.640 --> 00:57:23.910
like they wouldn't dream of breaking it.
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:26.309
With men apparently there is a
00:57:26.319 --> 00:57:28.870
statistically significant
00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:32.950
higher level of this kind of commitment
00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:35.910
than in in the female of the species.
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:39.510
just going with
00:57:39.520 --> 00:57:45.270
Desmond Morris.
00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:47.270
So, I don't consider it to be a genetic
00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:49.750
flaw in males and I don't consider it to
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:51.510
be a kind of cultural sickness because
00:57:51.520 --> 00:57:53.190
both of those are just black pill
00:57:53.200 --> 00:57:55.990
negativity.
00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:57.349
And I don't think it's really a modern
00:57:57.359 --> 00:57:59.109
trend either because I think it go
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:01.430
probably goes back to the stone age that
00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:03.589
this kind of stuff evolved if not before
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:06.630
the stone age.
00:58:06.640 --> 00:58:08.390
So, I'm just going to move on. Next
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.789
question. This is from Jeffrey.
00:58:10.799 --> 00:58:13.510
And Jeffrey says, "I was telling someone
00:58:13.520 --> 00:58:16.309
that if I got cancer, I would not use
00:58:16.319 --> 00:58:19.349
conventional medicine to heal. First, I
00:58:19.359 --> 00:58:22.150
would rub hydrogen peroxide all over me
00:58:22.160 --> 00:58:24.950
and then hire monks to pray over me. Is
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:26.950
that something that is possible? Can
00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:29.750
monks be hired to pray for healing?"
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:31.910
Well, you shouldn't hire monks because
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:33.190
monks aren't supposed to handle money.
00:58:33.200 --> 00:58:34.789
They're not supposed to do anything for
00:58:34.799 --> 00:58:37.270
pay. At least not Terraata Buddhist
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:39.910
monks. I'm not exactly sure where the
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:43.109
hydrogen peroxide comes in. I mean, you
00:58:43.119 --> 00:58:44.309
know, according to the Bible, you're
00:58:44.319 --> 00:58:46.230
supposed to be anointed with oil before
00:58:46.240 --> 00:58:48.230
the elders lay their hands on you and
00:58:48.240 --> 00:58:50.069
pray over you to heal you of your
00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:52.950
sicknesses. So, I'm not sure where
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:56.309
hydrogen peroxide um would necessarily
00:58:56.319 --> 00:59:00.230
be replacing some kind of ointment or
00:59:00.240 --> 00:59:03.190
oil for anointing. I guess that's why
00:59:03.200 --> 00:59:04.630
it's called ointment, right? Cuz you
00:59:04.640 --> 00:59:08.069
anoint it onto yourself.
00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:09.829
Um
00:59:09.839 --> 00:59:14.230
but the there are like paras like chants
00:59:14.240 --> 00:59:18.309
that monks do for helping people to to
00:59:18.319 --> 00:59:20.470
recover from illness. The main one in
00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:24.549
terra Buddhism is the bojanga suta. So
00:59:24.559 --> 00:59:28.230
different paras or protective chants
00:59:28.240 --> 00:59:30.390
have different purposes. There are a few
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:32.069
allpurpose protective chants. I think
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:35.349
the ratana suta and I think it's the uh
00:59:35.359 --> 00:59:37.349
the mangala suta are just kind of like
00:59:37.359 --> 00:59:40.950
general blessings. But the bojanga suta
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:44.309
in particular is supposed to have
00:59:44.319 --> 00:59:46.630
special efficacy with regard to healing
00:59:46.640 --> 00:59:49.270
the sick. Although I have to admit that
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:51.829
every sick animal I ever chanted the
00:59:51.839 --> 00:59:55.829
bojanga suta over wound up dying. So it
00:59:55.839 --> 00:59:58.069
didn't really work so much in my case.
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:01.190
And I think with regard to any kind of
01:00:01.200 --> 01:00:03.910
like healing powers
01:00:03.920 --> 01:00:07.589
resulting from like rituals or chanting
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:09.190
that kind of stuff there's going to have
01:00:09.200 --> 01:00:12.309
to be the faith of the person and the
01:00:12.319 --> 01:00:14.470
faith of the monks or priests or whoever
01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:17.030
it is who are doing the chanting. And if
01:00:17.040 --> 01:00:19.190
you've got one person with just like
01:00:19.200 --> 01:00:21.510
absolute unquestioning faith, that can
01:00:21.520 --> 01:00:24.390
kind of drown out some of the doubts of
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:27.030
other people involved. But still, there
01:00:27.040 --> 01:00:30.069
has to be some kind of strong belief
01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:32.630
or confidence that it's going to work on
01:00:32.640 --> 01:00:34.950
the part of somebody involved in order
01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:38.470
for it to work. Because it's not just
01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:41.589
that the the magic blah blah blah of the
01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:44.230
chant has any kind of power to heal
01:00:44.240 --> 01:00:47.750
anybody or to exercise malevolent
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:49.349
spirits from a house or anything like
01:00:49.359 --> 01:00:51.190
that. You know, it's the beliefs, the
01:00:51.200 --> 01:00:54.549
perceptions of the people involved that
01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:56.870
have the power. So, it's like a placebo
01:00:56.880 --> 01:01:00.789
effect.
01:01:00.799 --> 01:01:02.870
So, it may be I mean you might want to
01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:05.510
try like a Christian science
01:01:05.520 --> 01:01:07.190
practitioner. I assume they still have
01:01:07.200 --> 01:01:08.870
those
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:13.349
um or seek out like a monk or a priest
01:01:13.359 --> 01:01:15.829
who specializes in this and actually has
01:01:15.839 --> 01:01:17.430
a track record. I mean, you don't want
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:19.910
to just go to the local Cambodian temple
01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:22.390
or Thai temple and ask the monks there
01:01:22.400 --> 01:01:24.150
to pray over you, unless you just have
01:01:24.160 --> 01:01:26.870
unquestioning faith or confidence that
01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:29.109
it's going to work. Because a lot of
01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:31.349
these Asian monks, you know, they're
01:01:31.359 --> 01:01:33.430
kind of missionaries in the West, but
01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:35.030
more likely they're just sort of like
01:01:35.040 --> 01:01:37.990
the masters of ceremonies at a cultural
01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:40.069
center for the immigrants of their own
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:44.069
nationality who live there. And
01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:47.270
you know they're they really are not
01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:51.270
some kind of master with healing powers.
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.270
So I mean if you are going to have
01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:55.270
somebody chant over you to heal you of
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:58.870
some you know some ailment then you
01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:00.309
should try to find someone who
01:02:00.319 --> 01:02:03.190
specializes in it and not just you know
01:02:03.200 --> 01:02:05.030
just go knocking on the door of the
01:02:05.040 --> 01:02:07.670
local Cambodian temple and asking them
01:02:07.680 --> 01:02:10.150
to do it because they're not going to
01:02:10.160 --> 01:02:11.670
have the confidence or the faith
01:02:11.680 --> 01:02:14.230
probably to really do it in a way that
01:02:14.240 --> 01:02:17.750
works.
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:21.430
So, but I mean if you the standard um
01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:24.789
terravada Buddhist like poly uh parita
01:02:24.799 --> 01:02:26.789
or protective chant that is used for
01:02:26.799 --> 01:02:28.549
healing the sick would be the bojanga
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:30.230
suta. So you might want to just try
01:02:30.240 --> 01:02:32.710
chanting it yourself.
01:02:32.720 --> 01:02:34.150
It's out there. You can find it. I'm
01:02:34.160 --> 01:02:35.670
sure.
01:02:35.680 --> 01:02:36.870
And so I'm just going to move on to
01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:39.670
Jeffrey's next question.
01:02:39.680 --> 01:02:41.910
He says, "Also,
01:02:41.920 --> 01:02:44.150
I have heard that sexual energy is
01:02:44.160 --> 01:02:47.349
healing energy. Are they related?" Well,
01:02:47.359 --> 01:02:49.910
sexual energy and healing energy both
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:52.950
would require a certain vitality.
01:02:52.960 --> 01:02:56.230
You know, like a a brightness of spirit,
01:02:56.240 --> 01:03:00.870
I guess. You know, the the more vitality
01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:02.390
you've got, the more sexual energy
01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:03.910
you've got, the more healing energy
01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:08.789
you've got. So, I mean, to that extent,
01:03:08.799 --> 01:03:13.030
I would say, yeah, sexual energy can be
01:03:13.040 --> 01:03:16.710
healing energy to a certain degree.
01:03:16.720 --> 01:03:18.870
But I mean from the Buddhist point of
01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:20.950
view, there is no special energy that's
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:22.950
just sexual energy. You know, you've
01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:25.029
just got like
01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:26.950
energy
01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:29.270
that, you know, some of it is siphoned
01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:31.589
off for sexual purposes or, you know,
01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:34.950
sexual directions and then your body
01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:38.710
naturally heals um using some more of
01:03:38.720 --> 01:03:40.230
this kind of just sort of natural
01:03:40.240 --> 01:03:41.750
vitality.
01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:43.910
But so there is a connection I think
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:45.589
between sexual energy and healing
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:47.829
energy. Both of them require just you
01:03:47.839 --> 01:03:54.230
know the the vital essence of of life.
01:03:54.240 --> 01:03:56.309
I mean you're you're less likely to be
01:03:56.319 --> 01:03:58.950
sexually energetic if you're not well
01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:04.789
and you're less likely to be well if you
01:04:04.799 --> 01:04:08.870
just low low sexual energy I guess. So
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:10.710
yeah, there is a kind of relation, but
01:04:10.720 --> 01:04:12.789
it's really not a kind of Buddhist
01:04:12.799 --> 01:04:15.029
concept. Maybe in yoga or something like
01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:17.270
that, they would have more of a some
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:19.190
kind of system worked out on how it all
01:04:19.200 --> 01:04:23.349
works, but I think it's from I mean just
01:04:23.359 --> 01:04:27.029
using my own understanding of biology
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:29.589
and so forth. It would just be the just
01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:33.270
the same kind of vitality that would be
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:35.029
used could be used for either or for
01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:39.510
entirely something else.
01:04:39.520 --> 01:04:41.029
So
01:04:41.039 --> 01:04:42.710
yeah, I mean Freud might have something
01:04:42.720 --> 01:04:45.029
to say about that, but I'm really not an
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:47.990
expert on Freud. You know, he he turned
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.150
everything into sex.
01:04:50.160 --> 01:04:53.029
Freud was just sort of a master of
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:58.309
second chakra.
01:04:58.319 --> 01:05:00.630
So yeah, I guess I I got about as far
01:05:00.640 --> 01:05:03.029
with that as I'm liable to get. So I'm
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:03.910
just going to move on to the next
01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:06.390
question. This is from Quistor.
01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:09.589
And Quistor says, "I've heard you tell
01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:11.910
the story about the monk who selfdeed
01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:13.589
because he couldn't always get into
01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:16.549
Janna and then became an Araant. I find
01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:18.470
it difficult to understand since the
01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:20.549
story would indicate that he has
01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:22.870
attachment to Janna and that the craving
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:25.349
for it is the barrier to achieving it.
01:05:25.359 --> 01:05:27.670
Is there more background to the story?
01:05:27.680 --> 01:05:29.829
Could it be that the craving wasn't
01:05:29.839 --> 01:05:31.910
specifically for the johnic bliss or
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:33.829
equinimity itself, but for what the
01:05:33.839 --> 01:05:36.069
Jonas lead to? And once he put that
01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:37.670
craving aside, there was no craving
01:05:37.680 --> 01:05:40.309
left. Or maybe he realized that Janna is
01:05:40.319 --> 01:05:43.510
not an Ibana and not having Janna
01:05:43.520 --> 01:05:45.670
brought suffering. So he dropped craving
01:05:45.680 --> 01:05:47.349
for Janna and that was the last
01:05:47.359 --> 01:05:50.470
attachment he needed to let go of. Well,
01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:52.870
he's referring to the God Suta. I did
01:05:52.880 --> 01:05:54.710
warn you in advance that I was going to
01:05:54.720 --> 01:05:57.829
come back to God. And he was the monk
01:05:57.839 --> 01:06:00.390
who got Janna and lost it and got it and
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.309
lost it and got it and lost it until
01:06:02.319 --> 01:06:04.789
finally after like seven times this
01:06:04.799 --> 01:06:07.750
happened. He was thinking, this is like
01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:10.630
the context that Quistor was asking for.
01:06:10.640 --> 01:06:14.630
He was thinking if I die with Janna, I'm
01:06:14.640 --> 01:06:17.510
guaranteed at least a Brahma realm. I
01:06:17.520 --> 01:06:20.150
mean that's that is the belief in in
01:06:20.160 --> 01:06:23.109
Terravada Buddhism that the Brahma
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:25.029
realms correspond to Jonic realms and
01:06:25.039 --> 01:06:27.349
you you've mastered you know first Janna
01:06:27.359 --> 01:06:29.109
you can get into like the lower Brahma
01:06:29.119 --> 01:06:31.109
realms you master second Janna you get
01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:34.150
into higher Brahma realms etc
01:06:34.160 --> 01:06:35.430
and you have to get into like the
01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:38.309
formless Janna in order to get into like
01:06:38.319 --> 01:06:41.190
the highest heaven realms
01:06:41.200 --> 01:06:44.630
and so anyways Godo is thinking you know
01:06:44.640 --> 01:06:48.069
if he dies with this mastery of Janna.
01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:50.069
While he has it temporarily, he's
01:06:50.079 --> 01:06:51.829
guaranteed of a heaven of like a really
01:06:51.839 --> 01:06:53.910
advanced heaven realm. But if he dies
01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:55.910
without Janna, there's no guarantees at
01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:57.589
all. He could be reborn as an animal or
01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:00.950
in hell or anything. So he it was just
01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:04.309
sort of like this kind of
01:07:04.319 --> 01:07:06.870
I don't know what
01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:09.029
it was like Pascal I think had this
01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:10.710
deal, you know, where you to believe in
01:07:10.720 --> 01:07:13.270
God and be wrong is better than um not
01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:16.150
to believe in God and be wrong. So, you
01:07:16.160 --> 01:07:18.549
know, it's just kind of like this game
01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:21.910
theory or something where it's like if I
01:07:21.920 --> 01:07:24.870
die with with Janna,
01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:27.029
guaranteed of a of of like a very high
01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:29.510
heaven realm. If I die without it, no
01:07:29.520 --> 01:07:31.510
guarantee at all. So, he just made the
01:07:31.520 --> 01:07:34.390
decision that the next time he was
01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:36.789
really in the groove with his meditation
01:07:36.799 --> 01:07:39.029
and had Janna that he was just going to
01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:41.510
end it before he fell back out of it
01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:44.230
again. That was that's the explanation
01:07:44.240 --> 01:07:46.470
in the text in the in the suta itself in
01:07:46.480 --> 01:07:50.230
the goda suta of the samutinikaya.
01:07:50.240 --> 01:07:53.029
So that's that's the way it is described
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:56.069
in the suta itself that it was just kind
01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:59.910
of this this idea that you know if he
01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:03.829
died while he had Janna he was
01:08:03.839 --> 01:08:06.309
guaranteed of at least a Brahma realm.
01:08:06.319 --> 01:08:09.270
So he went for it because he knew that
01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:10.870
just based on his past experience, it
01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:12.150
was likely he was just going to wind up
01:08:12.160 --> 01:08:14.950
losing it again. And then all bets are
01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:16.309
off with regard to how he was going to
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:18.709
be reborn. And then just through just
01:08:18.719 --> 01:08:20.470
the momentum of practice that he had
01:08:20.480 --> 01:08:22.950
going and the parmesated,
01:08:22.960 --> 01:08:24.950
you know, just the the virtue and just
01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:28.390
the the momentum of his his holy life.
01:08:28.400 --> 01:08:30.550
It was sufficient through whatever way
01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:32.550
it's not fully described exactly how it
01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:34.870
happened in the in the suta that he
01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:36.550
became enlightened instead of going to a
01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:39.430
Brahma realm he just attain par nibbana
01:08:39.440 --> 01:08:44.309
at the moment of death.
01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:45.990
So did I answer the question? Is there
01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:47.590
more background to the story? Yeah, it
01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:50.709
was it was just this idea. If he dies
01:08:50.719 --> 01:08:52.950
with Janna, he's guaranteed of a high
01:08:52.960 --> 01:08:54.789
heaven realm and if he dies without it,
01:08:54.799 --> 01:08:57.269
there's no guarantee at all. So he just
01:08:57.279 --> 01:09:00.070
made the decision that he's next time he
01:09:00.080 --> 01:09:02.709
he had Janna real good he was just gonna
01:09:02.719 --> 01:09:05.749
end it
01:09:05.759 --> 01:09:07.030
and I'm just gonna move on next
01:09:07.040 --> 01:09:09.829
question. This is from the protose monk
01:09:09.839 --> 01:09:13.430
formerly known as cool whip
01:09:13.440 --> 01:09:15.990
and uh and the protose monk he has sort
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:17.990
of a preliminary question that turns out
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:20.470
not to be one of his allotted three
01:09:20.480 --> 01:09:22.229
questions.
01:09:22.239 --> 01:09:25.269
So the first question we can kind of
01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:27.349
skip over and then we will address that
01:09:27.359 --> 01:09:29.590
in the subsequent questions. He says,
01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:31.749
"Have you heard about or seen the ex
01:09:31.759 --> 01:09:34.229
monk Varapano
01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:37.430
in this video?" And then he has uh he he
01:09:37.440 --> 01:09:40.630
has some video link with regard to this
01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:42.550
person who used to go by the name of
01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:44.390
Varapo.
01:09:44.400 --> 01:09:46.709
I don't remember what his name is now.
01:09:46.719 --> 01:09:49.110
He technically might not even be ex monk
01:09:49.120 --> 01:09:51.030
as he was never a monk in the first
01:09:51.040 --> 01:09:53.510
place. He claims to have been a Buddhist
01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:56.390
monk for seven years and since disroing
01:09:56.400 --> 01:09:58.709
does daily live streams with some dude
01:09:58.719 --> 01:10:01.910
that legally changed his name to Shiva
01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:06.149
at Shiva Kyash Shambo where all these
01:10:06.159 --> 01:10:08.550
spiritual begers
01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:11.350
seem to do where all these spiritual
01:10:11.360 --> 01:10:13.270
baggackers seem to do is ask for
01:10:13.280 --> 01:10:16.070
donations. His channel appears on my
01:10:16.080 --> 01:10:19.270
very dharmic feed no matter what, and I
01:10:19.280 --> 01:10:21.750
usually ignore it. The algorithm loves
01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:24.550
his trolling rage bait, but clicked on
01:10:24.560 --> 01:10:27.110
his latest stream as it really caught my
01:10:27.120 --> 01:10:29.590
attention and couldn't believe it when
01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:31.990
he heard this. Please listen to his
01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:34.229
confession here. And this is where the
01:10:34.239 --> 01:10:36.310
exvaropho
01:10:36.320 --> 01:10:39.270
uh admitted that he was never a real
01:10:39.280 --> 01:10:41.270
monk to begin with and he was just
01:10:41.280 --> 01:10:43.750
pretending to be a monk in order to get
01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:46.470
donations and then he was investing that
01:10:46.480 --> 01:10:48.950
in Bitcoin or something and once he got
01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:49.990
enough that he could just be
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:52.470
independently wealthy then he just
01:10:52.480 --> 01:10:55.830
dropped out and he he looked like he was
01:10:55.840 --> 01:10:58.390
kind of drunk in the video. some
01:10:58.400 --> 01:10:59.910
somebody in the comments saying now he's
01:10:59.920 --> 01:11:01.830
just sleepd deprived. But I mean, he was
01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:03.510
just kind of like slouched over on his
01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:05.910
side with kind of like this sleepy smile
01:11:05.920 --> 01:11:08.950
on his face while he's singing like a
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:11.270
canary and admitting to being a total
01:11:11.280 --> 01:11:13.350
fraud.
01:11:13.360 --> 01:11:16.790
See, on fake monks using Okay, so then
01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:19.750
there's like the the the what's the
01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:24.630
word? the rubric, the uh the heading of
01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:26.550
three three questions here, the three
01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:28.870
following questions on fake monks using
01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:32.709
Donna or generosity to invest in Bitcoin
01:11:32.719 --> 01:11:36.470
for financial independence.
01:11:36.480 --> 01:11:38.149
So
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:40.310
the first question
01:11:40.320 --> 01:11:44.229
from Protose Pudom,
01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:46.709
formerly known as Kwip, what do you
01:11:46.719 --> 01:11:48.870
think of this man's plan for being a
01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:51.830
monk? And are you shocked? From the
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:53.910
beginning, asking for donations to
01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:56.550
invest in Bitcoin and exiting when he
01:11:56.560 --> 01:11:58.790
had enough profits to retire. He
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:01.110
couldn't even believe he was in robes
01:12:01.120 --> 01:12:04.149
for seven years. People giving him money
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:06.470
as a donation thinking he was a monk.
01:12:06.480 --> 01:12:08.709
Well, I remember coming across this
01:12:08.719 --> 01:12:11.430
person and I I before I I get into the
01:12:11.440 --> 01:12:13.510
question, get into the answer of the
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:16.229
question, I mean I mean you can block
01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:19.510
this person from your YouTube feed. You
01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:20.950
know, there's some channel that keeps
01:12:20.960 --> 01:12:22.950
coming up and you want to avoid it. You
01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:25.669
just kind of click on something around
01:12:25.679 --> 01:12:27.830
it and say you're not interested and
01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:30.149
don't show anything from this channel
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:34.550
ever again or else and the the algorithm
01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:35.910
will cooperate with that. I'm pretty
01:12:35.920 --> 01:12:39.350
sure at least on YouTube.
01:12:39.360 --> 01:12:42.310
But let's get back to this question. Um,
01:12:42.320 --> 01:12:45.669
yeah, I I came across him just I saw him
01:12:45.679 --> 01:12:49.350
on some videos and my woman especially,
01:12:49.360 --> 01:12:51.590
she called him the sleepy weepy monk
01:12:51.600 --> 01:12:53.910
because he'd always talk in like this
01:12:53.920 --> 01:12:55.830
sleepy monotone and never looked like he
01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:57.990
was fully awake, which could have just
01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:00.790
been part of the act to look like a
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:03.510
serene meditative monk.
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:06.390
And she would kind of she took more
01:13:06.400 --> 01:13:08.709
interest in him than I did. And she was
01:13:08.719 --> 01:13:10.550
scandalized cuz I mean she could see
01:13:10.560 --> 01:13:13.189
from practically from the very beginning
01:13:13.199 --> 01:13:16.470
that he was some kind of fraud, you
01:13:16.480 --> 01:13:18.390
know, probably just doing it for
01:13:18.400 --> 01:13:20.470
donations.
01:13:20.480 --> 01:13:24.070
And I really I mean, first of all, I
01:13:24.080 --> 01:13:25.590
tend to give people the benefit of the
01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.229
doubt. So, I mean, it was kind of
01:13:28.239 --> 01:13:29.510
obvious to me, too, there was a
01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:33.110
possibility that he was a scammer, but
01:13:33.120 --> 01:13:36.310
I'm less likely to jump to conclusions
01:13:36.320 --> 01:13:39.750
than my woman. And also, um, I have come
01:13:39.760 --> 01:13:42.310
across so many monks that are like this,
01:13:42.320 --> 01:13:45.350
like in Burma that I mean, some of the
01:13:45.360 --> 01:13:47.590
most famous monks in Burma. I won't name
01:13:47.600 --> 01:13:49.830
any names because they're kind of have
01:13:49.840 --> 01:13:52.149
at least one of them is very well
01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:54.790
respected among like certain Buddhist
01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:56.870
communities in the United States and
01:13:56.880 --> 01:13:59.350
he's got at least one monastery in the
01:13:59.360 --> 01:14:00.950
United States that's you know kind of a
01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:04.709
branch monastery that I mean he just he
01:14:04.719 --> 01:14:06.870
is like a wealthy businessman who wears
01:14:06.880 --> 01:14:09.110
monks robes in order to make more money
01:14:09.120 --> 01:14:11.669
you know he just charges exorbitant fees
01:14:11.679 --> 01:14:14.070
even in fourth world Burma for his
01:14:14.080 --> 01:14:16.149
dharmat talks
01:14:16.159 --> 01:14:18.630
and I I
01:14:18.640 --> 01:14:21.990
I I just did not approve of him at all.
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.149
You know, I somebody would donate some
01:14:24.159 --> 01:14:26.390
calendar from his monastery. I just take
01:14:26.400 --> 01:14:28.310
it down. It's like, "No, we're not we're
01:14:28.320 --> 01:14:30.630
not advertising this monk because he's
01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:32.790
just a rich businessman wearing monk's
01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:35.110
robes."
01:14:35.120 --> 01:14:37.590
And I mean, I've come across monks like
01:14:37.600 --> 01:14:39.590
this that I mean, they're just trying to
01:14:39.600 --> 01:14:43.350
get rich, rich and famous. And wearing
01:14:43.360 --> 01:14:44.870
monks robes helps them to be that way.
01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:48.390
So in in Burma it's it's it's common
01:14:48.400 --> 01:14:50.149
much more common than in the west I
01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:51.669
think at least with regard to terra
01:14:51.679 --> 01:14:53.669
Buddhist monks.
01:14:53.679 --> 01:14:56.310
Most monks handle money anyway. Most
01:14:56.320 --> 01:14:58.229
monks are receiving donations and just
01:14:58.239 --> 01:15:01.350
going out and and buying you know
01:15:01.360 --> 01:15:03.830
whatever they want.
01:15:03.840 --> 01:15:06.070
So I was exposed to more of So I was I
01:15:06.080 --> 01:15:08.790
was less scandalized by the whole thing
01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:11.030
than my woman who I mean she's
01:15:11.040 --> 01:15:13.110
relatively naive and hadn't come across
01:15:13.120 --> 01:15:15.830
a lot of that before whereas there's
01:15:15.840 --> 01:15:18.709
lots of it. I remember there was one
01:15:18.719 --> 01:15:20.950
monk who came to stay at my monastery
01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:23.189
back when I was the abbot of onebo
01:15:23.199 --> 01:15:24.950
wildlife refuge monastery in
01:15:24.960 --> 01:15:27.110
northwestern Burma.
01:15:27.120 --> 01:15:30.310
this young monk, like a village monk,
01:15:30.320 --> 01:15:32.550
came and he wanted to stay at my place
01:15:32.560 --> 01:15:35.910
and most monks in that entire area, the
01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:38.470
overwhelming majority of them just did
01:15:38.480 --> 01:15:40.149
not follow the rules of monastic
01:15:40.159 --> 01:15:42.070
discipline. So, I just pretty much flat
01:15:42.080 --> 01:15:43.510
out told him, I really don't think it's
01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:45.750
likely to work because if you're from
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:48.390
around here, chances are you don't
01:15:48.400 --> 01:15:50.870
follow the rules like is required at
01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:54.790
this monastery. And then it was like he
01:15:54.800 --> 01:15:57.189
just kind of unbburdened his heart to me
01:15:57.199 --> 01:16:00.870
this this young monk saying I know it's
01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:03.110
like this and it bothers me too and I
01:16:03.120 --> 01:16:04.709
just want to be a good monk and that's
01:16:04.719 --> 01:16:07.110
why I came here cuz I want to follow the
01:16:07.120 --> 01:16:08.709
rules and be a good monk just like in
01:16:08.719 --> 01:16:11.350
the text as well as I can. You know it
01:16:11.360 --> 01:16:13.510
was like he really did appear to be
01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:16.149
emotionally moved when he's giving me
01:16:16.159 --> 01:16:20.070
this speech. And so again I am willing
01:16:20.080 --> 01:16:21.430
to give people the benefit of the doubt.
01:16:21.440 --> 01:16:23.350
So I said, "All right, you can stay.
01:16:23.360 --> 01:16:26.390
We'll see how it goes." And then he
01:16:26.400 --> 01:16:29.669
stayed for maybe a month or two. I don't
01:16:29.679 --> 01:16:31.189
remember exactly how long he stayed. It
01:16:31.199 --> 01:16:33.270
wasn't for very long. And then one day
01:16:33.280 --> 01:16:36.310
he just suddenly took off and there was
01:16:36.320 --> 01:16:38.229
some stuff missing like there was like a
01:16:38.239 --> 01:16:40.790
human anatomy chart in the congregation
01:16:40.800 --> 01:16:42.390
hall, you know, showing the bones and
01:16:42.400 --> 01:16:45.590
everything just help monks to look upon
01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:47.910
what the human body is really made of. I
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:49.750
mean, that was gone. He just took took
01:16:49.760 --> 01:16:52.310
some stuff and just disappeared. And
01:16:52.320 --> 01:16:54.390
then after he left, I was told he was
01:16:54.400 --> 01:16:56.149
scamming the villagers for money, saying
01:16:56.159 --> 01:16:59.270
that he was like collecting funds
01:16:59.280 --> 01:17:01.270
because his father needed an eye
01:17:01.280 --> 01:17:03.830
operation or something or it was his
01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:06.470
some Seattle needed an eye operation. I
01:17:06.480 --> 01:17:07.669
can't remember the details. I remember
01:17:07.679 --> 01:17:09.270
there was somebody needing an eye
01:17:09.280 --> 01:17:11.590
operation involved and then after he
01:17:11.600 --> 01:17:12.950
figured he had enough money, he just
01:17:12.960 --> 01:17:15.110
took off.
01:17:15.120 --> 01:17:17.350
So, I mean, it just it's just a
01:17:17.360 --> 01:17:20.149
relatively common occurrence in places
01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:22.630
like Burma where you've got monks,
01:17:22.640 --> 01:17:24.870
including one of the most famous monks
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:27.830
in the whole country, that are just
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:31.830
they're in it for the money.
01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:34.870
So, this Varapo, I would assume that he
01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:37.669
really was ordained. when he's like
01:17:37.679 --> 01:17:40.229
admitting that he was never never a
01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:42.790
really a monk, he probably means that he
01:17:42.800 --> 01:17:44.310
even though he was officially
01:17:44.320 --> 01:17:46.630
technically ordained as a monk, he just
01:17:46.640 --> 01:17:48.310
never really believed in it and was
01:17:48.320 --> 01:17:50.550
never really trying to be a monk. You
01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:52.470
know, it's like you can you can get
01:17:52.480 --> 01:17:54.950
ordained fairly easily. It doesn't take
01:17:54.960 --> 01:17:57.590
any herculean effort to get some Asian
01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:00.390
monks to ordain you. You don't even have
01:18:00.400 --> 01:18:01.910
to be a Buddhist for some of them to
01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:03.750
ordain you.
01:18:03.760 --> 01:18:06.550
So he probably really was ordained. It's
01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:09.590
just that he he just adopted this
01:18:09.600 --> 01:18:12.390
persona of always speaking in a in a
01:18:12.400 --> 01:18:15.510
like a low quiet monotone.
01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:18.310
Maybe that's just the way he was anyway.
01:18:18.320 --> 01:18:20.310
Never opening his eyes all the way just
01:18:20.320 --> 01:18:22.229
so that he seemed like he was like a
01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:24.870
blissed out meditator. And I remember he
01:18:24.880 --> 01:18:26.470
he dropped out of the monkhood for a
01:18:26.480 --> 01:18:28.950
while and then he just appeared on
01:18:28.960 --> 01:18:30.790
videos again. My my woman was showing me
01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:32.390
this stuff. She she was keeping up with
01:18:32.400 --> 01:18:34.070
it. I really didn't have much interest
01:18:34.080 --> 01:18:36.550
in him, but for a while he was like a
01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:38.709
monastery attendant in Thailand or
01:18:38.719 --> 01:18:41.430
something and
01:18:41.440 --> 01:18:44.070
maybe he he became a monk again or
01:18:44.080 --> 01:18:46.550
something. And
01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:48.790
yeah, it's I really don't know exactly
01:18:48.800 --> 01:18:50.550
what to make of it. I mean, he could
01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:54.709
just be trolling and just exaggerating
01:18:54.719 --> 01:18:58.390
what a fraudulent [ __ ] he was just for
01:18:58.400 --> 01:19:01.430
the hell of it. But to some degree, he
01:19:01.440 --> 01:19:05.270
apparently really was a fraudulent [ __ ]
01:19:05.280 --> 01:19:09.510
Just just praying upon the gullibility
01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:14.630
and faith of simplehearted people.
01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:17.990
So, let's see here. I guess I answer
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:19.910
that kind of question. What do you think
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:21.590
of this man's plan for being a monk? And
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:23.669
are you shocked? No, I wasn't shocked
01:19:23.679 --> 01:19:25.830
because I've been exposed to plenty of
01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:28.149
that when I was a monk in Burma. And
01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:31.030
just 98%
01:19:31.040 --> 01:19:34.310
of the SA in Burma handles money. I
01:19:34.320 --> 01:19:36.870
mean, most of them aren't scamming, you
01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:39.030
know. You know, they're just like there
01:19:39.040 --> 01:19:40.229
was an old monk that used to live with
01:19:40.239 --> 01:19:41.830
me, the one that was bitten by a cobra
01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:44.470
and eventually died. Um, he handled
01:19:44.480 --> 01:19:47.830
money, too. And what he was doing was he
01:19:47.840 --> 01:19:50.070
would actually make brooms out of like
01:19:50.080 --> 01:19:53.030
palm frrons and a bamboo pole. And he
01:19:53.040 --> 01:19:54.550
made good brooms. We were using the
01:19:54.560 --> 01:19:56.229
brooms he made around the monastery.
01:19:56.239 --> 01:19:58.950
They're relatively good brooms, but he
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:00.709
was having his niece who lived in a
01:20:00.719 --> 01:20:03.189
nearby village sell some of them in the
01:20:03.199 --> 01:20:05.270
market. And then he was using, you know,
01:20:05.280 --> 01:20:07.430
the the relatively small amount of money
01:20:07.440 --> 01:20:10.630
he was getting from that to buy like
01:20:10.640 --> 01:20:14.390
beetle quids and maybe cigars.
01:20:14.400 --> 01:20:16.070
And I don't know how he chewed beetle.
01:20:16.080 --> 01:20:18.149
He had like four teeth left in his head.
01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:19.750
But still, he was able to chew beetle
01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:21.430
for some reason. And I'm not talking
01:20:21.440 --> 01:20:24.470
about the bugs, the insects, colopter
01:20:24.480 --> 01:20:27.350
insects. There's a a drug, a mild drug
01:20:27.360 --> 01:20:32.470
called beetle, bee t- lure nut,
01:20:32.480 --> 01:20:34.950
that is chewed in South Asia and
01:20:34.960 --> 01:20:37.590
Southeast Asia. It's relatively
01:20:37.600 --> 01:20:39.430
disgusting. It turns your slobber into
01:20:39.440 --> 01:20:41.430
something like ketchup,
01:20:41.440 --> 01:20:44.390
just red and thick. It's relatively
01:20:44.400 --> 01:20:45.910
gross.
01:20:45.920 --> 01:20:47.510
But he was handling money. I mean, he he
01:20:47.520 --> 01:20:50.790
wasn't like deliberately scamming people
01:20:50.800 --> 01:20:54.149
to I mean, he was just making brooms and
01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:55.910
having his niece sell them in the
01:20:55.920 --> 01:20:57.510
village so that he could afford his
01:20:57.520 --> 01:21:00.310
beetlenut and and who knows what else,
01:21:00.320 --> 01:21:05.030
tea or whatever.
01:21:05.040 --> 01:21:06.470
I used to think that that monk would
01:21:06.480 --> 01:21:08.310
have been more venerable if he has
01:21:08.320 --> 01:21:11.350
hadn't been a monk because he did live
01:21:11.360 --> 01:21:14.390
just a very simple, austere,
01:21:14.400 --> 01:21:16.390
humble kind of existence. He just didn't
01:21:16.400 --> 01:21:19.030
follow the rules very well
01:21:19.040 --> 01:21:20.709
and that just handling money wasn't the
01:21:20.719 --> 01:21:22.229
only rule he broke. I think he he cooked
01:21:22.239 --> 01:21:23.830
dinner for himself sometimes. I really
01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:25.430
didn't want to know. I was like I wasn't
01:21:25.440 --> 01:21:27.830
looking for trouble.
01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:29.350
And then sometimes he'd go for alms
01:21:29.360 --> 01:21:31.669
round with like wearing a sweatshirt and
01:21:31.679 --> 01:21:33.350
just like a blanket wrapped around him
01:21:33.360 --> 01:21:36.149
instead of his robes, but he was like 80
01:21:36.159 --> 01:21:40.390
years old and just very simple man.
01:21:40.400 --> 01:21:41.910
I really didn't didn't want to fight
01:21:41.920 --> 01:21:44.310
with him.
01:21:44.320 --> 01:21:47.510
So yeah, I guess I answered that. I was
01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:49.270
not shocked.
01:21:49.280 --> 01:21:52.550
So I'm going to move on to the protose
01:21:52.560 --> 01:21:54.229
monk's second question which I might
01:21:54.239 --> 01:21:56.070
have already answered here. Is this
01:21:56.080 --> 01:21:58.310
shocking behavior common in the Buddhist
01:21:58.320 --> 01:22:00.709
world generally and specifically
01:22:00.719 --> 01:22:03.189
terraada? And why are people giving so
01:22:03.199 --> 01:22:06.149
much money to monks to renuncience? That
01:22:06.159 --> 01:22:08.070
makes no sense. Well, the first part of
01:22:08.080 --> 01:22:10.550
this is the shocking behavior common in
01:22:10.560 --> 01:22:12.310
the Buddhist world. As I've already
01:22:12.320 --> 01:22:16.310
said, it's it's really fairly common. In
01:22:16.320 --> 01:22:19.669
fact, one of the most famous monks in
01:22:19.679 --> 01:22:23.669
all of Burma is like this.
01:22:23.679 --> 01:22:28.070
So, that part it's relatively common,
01:22:28.080 --> 01:22:30.790
certainly not unheard of. But with
01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:32.390
regard to this question, why are people
01:22:32.400 --> 01:22:33.750
giving so much money to monks to
01:22:33.760 --> 01:22:36.470
renuncience? It makes no sense. Well,
01:22:36.480 --> 01:22:40.390
most people in Burma probably don't even
01:22:40.400 --> 01:22:41.750
know that it's against the rules for
01:22:41.760 --> 01:22:44.070
monks to handle money. I remember the
01:22:44.080 --> 01:22:46.790
the the Burmese equivalent of the Thai
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:50.310
Raja. Um I met him once. He came to the
01:22:50.320 --> 01:22:53.030
monastery where I was staying at. He was
01:22:53.040 --> 01:22:56.070
in Burmese it's the SA Mahanayaka
01:22:56.080 --> 01:22:57.669
Seattle, you know, the great leader of
01:22:57.679 --> 01:22:59.590
the SA.
01:22:59.600 --> 01:23:02.550
And he was just he gave gave this little
01:23:02.560 --> 01:23:04.870
talk to the people who came to to listen
01:23:04.880 --> 01:23:06.470
to his talk and he was talking about you
01:23:06.480 --> 01:23:09.430
know the great merit you get by donating
01:23:09.440 --> 01:23:12.470
to the SA donating to monks he handled
01:23:12.480 --> 01:23:14.470
he handled money himself he was the
01:23:14.480 --> 01:23:17.990
supreme leader of the Burmese terra
01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:20.070
Buddhist SA
01:23:20.080 --> 01:23:22.229
and he's just willingly accepting
01:23:22.239 --> 01:23:24.310
donations of money and and telling
01:23:24.320 --> 01:23:27.110
people the merit that they will get by
01:23:27.120 --> 01:23:29.350
donating money to monks.
01:23:29.360 --> 01:23:32.629
And so I mean if even this monk the
01:23:32.639 --> 01:23:34.629
highest ranking monk in the entire
01:23:34.639 --> 01:23:37.590
country is saying it's it's not only
01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:39.590
okay to offer money to monks but it's
01:23:39.600 --> 01:23:42.229
good and you ought to do it. Then what
01:23:42.239 --> 01:23:44.629
are what are the devout gullible
01:23:44.639 --> 01:23:46.550
faithoriented Buddhists going to going
01:23:46.560 --> 01:23:49.030
to believe?
01:23:49.040 --> 01:23:51.590
A lot of Burmese lay people don't even
01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:53.110
know it's against the rules for a monk
01:23:53.120 --> 01:23:55.910
to touch women
01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:58.790
cuz so many monks be like rubbing up
01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:02.390
against girls on the buses and stuff.
01:24:02.400 --> 01:24:03.990
So, I mean, I'm not shocked at all.
01:24:04.000 --> 01:24:06.229
There's a I was pretty naive and a lot
01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:10.709
of Western Buddhists are really naive to
01:24:10.719 --> 01:24:13.430
the amount of just decadence and
01:24:13.440 --> 01:24:14.950
degeneracy
01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:19.910
that prevails in in the song. And it's
01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:21.830
too bad really. I mean like I've said
01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:24.950
before it's like 2% of Burmese monks
01:24:24.960 --> 01:24:27.590
will go so far as not to handle money
01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:29.830
whereas among Western monks it's like
01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:31.750
50%.
01:24:31.760 --> 01:24:33.830
Because in the west, I mean, first of
01:24:33.840 --> 01:24:36.149
all, you're not just blindly following
01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:37.910
along sheeplike with what everyone else
01:24:37.920 --> 01:24:40.070
is doing. You're having to break away
01:24:40.080 --> 01:24:42.229
from your own culture, maybe your own
01:24:42.239 --> 01:24:44.709
family and friends in order to do this
01:24:44.719 --> 01:24:46.390
that you feel very strongly about, and
01:24:46.400 --> 01:24:47.990
you're doing it for idealistic reasons.
01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:49.669
You want to become enlightened. But in
01:24:49.679 --> 01:24:52.070
Burma or other traditional Buddhist
01:24:52.080 --> 01:24:53.830
countries,
01:24:53.840 --> 01:24:55.350
a lot of people just become monks
01:24:55.360 --> 01:24:57.430
because, you know, they're like the the
01:24:57.440 --> 01:25:00.149
seventh child of a poor subsistence
01:25:00.159 --> 01:25:02.149
farmer. Maybe they just get sent to the
01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:04.229
monastery by their parents because
01:25:04.239 --> 01:25:05.910
there's just too many mouths to feed and
01:25:05.920 --> 01:25:08.470
they want the like the prestige of
01:25:08.480 --> 01:25:10.709
having a monk in the family and he might
01:25:10.719 --> 01:25:13.910
have no spiritual calling whatsoever.
01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:15.510
Some of them are just lazy. They want to
01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:18.070
live an easy life. Some of them want get
01:25:18.080 --> 01:25:19.990
like a free education at the monastic
01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:21.830
universities. You know, they want upward
01:25:21.840 --> 01:25:23.910
social mobility. Some of them want
01:25:23.920 --> 01:25:26.070
money. You're not going to make much
01:25:26.080 --> 01:25:28.870
money as a subsistence farmer or a toddy
01:25:28.880 --> 01:25:31.669
tree climber and make more money as a
01:25:31.679 --> 01:25:34.229
monk. So, I mean, it's just really
01:25:34.239 --> 01:25:36.310
common in Asia. And it's too bad. I I
01:25:36.320 --> 01:25:37.990
really am sorry about it. It's sort of
01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:41.189
like I've said before the position of
01:25:41.199 --> 01:25:44.229
terra Buddhism in Burma is similar to
01:25:44.239 --> 01:25:47.510
the position of Roman Catholicism in
01:25:47.520 --> 01:25:50.790
Western Europe like in the 14th century
01:25:50.800 --> 01:25:53.350
where the people have unquestioning
01:25:53.360 --> 01:25:55.030
faith in their religion. Their religion
01:25:55.040 --> 01:25:57.189
is true. All of it's true. Every word in
01:25:57.199 --> 01:25:59.590
the text is true.
01:25:59.600 --> 01:26:03.270
And you do have some very saintly monks
01:26:03.280 --> 01:26:07.270
and nuns, very advanced saintly ones,
01:26:07.280 --> 01:26:09.750
but they are of course a small minority.
01:26:09.760 --> 01:26:12.310
And for the most part, the clergy is
01:26:12.320 --> 01:26:15.110
just corrupt as hell, which doesn't mean
01:26:15.120 --> 01:26:18.790
that they're bad people. Most monks are
01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:21.669
are actually good people. I mean they're
01:26:21.679 --> 01:26:24.629
like morally and just with regard to
01:26:24.639 --> 01:26:27.510
just inherent virtue at a somewhat
01:26:27.520 --> 01:26:29.189
higher level than the average lay
01:26:29.199 --> 01:26:31.750
person. You know it's something got them
01:26:31.760 --> 01:26:36.629
to become a monk but it's like the whole
01:26:36.639 --> 01:26:38.310
tradition
01:26:38.320 --> 01:26:41.669
has become so corrupt with like I said
01:26:41.679 --> 01:26:44.950
even the Sa Raja of Burma the Sa Maha
01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:47.990
Nayaka seat of Burma is handling money
01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:49.910
and encouraging lay people to donate
01:26:49.920 --> 01:26:51.669
money to monks telling them how much
01:26:51.679 --> 01:26:53.030
merit they're going to make. And there
01:26:53.040 --> 01:26:54.870
are a lot of wise guy seats out there
01:26:54.880 --> 01:26:56.470
doing the same thing at their their
01:26:56.480 --> 01:26:59.189
their sermons. You know, they'll be
01:26:59.199 --> 01:27:02.310
encouraging people to donate money to
01:27:02.320 --> 01:27:05.189
monks.
01:27:05.199 --> 01:27:07.030
I remember one time I had been staying
01:27:07.040 --> 01:27:10.390
at Alando Kathab National Park and I was
01:27:10.400 --> 01:27:12.229
leaving the the monsoon season had
01:27:12.239 --> 01:27:15.270
started so I was clearing out.
01:27:15.280 --> 01:27:16.790
usually just spent the hot seasons
01:27:16.800 --> 01:27:20.950
there. And we stopped at this monastery
01:27:20.960 --> 01:27:22.629
where, you know, everyone wanted to meet
01:27:22.639 --> 01:27:24.709
the strange western monk who was
01:27:24.719 --> 01:27:26.550
famously living in a cave out in the
01:27:26.560 --> 01:27:30.870
woods. So, um, I'm I'm led into like the
01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:32.550
congregation hall at this village
01:27:32.560 --> 01:27:35.830
monastery and the Seattle has a plate
01:27:35.840 --> 01:27:38.070
put right in front of me on the stage
01:27:38.080 --> 01:27:39.189
and then he's telling everybody,
01:27:39.199 --> 01:27:41.590
"Donate, donate to the Western Monk so
01:27:41.600 --> 01:27:43.030
he can pay for his boat fair and
01:27:43.040 --> 01:27:45.430
everything." And I'm just I'm just like,
01:27:45.440 --> 01:27:47.830
"No, this is not cool." And the monk
01:27:47.840 --> 01:27:50.070
that was with me who knew me, he went to
01:27:50.080 --> 01:27:51.990
the seat and said, you know, he does not
01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:54.709
like this at all. And so the monk the
01:27:54.719 --> 01:27:56.550
the seat, you know, the abbott of the
01:27:56.560 --> 01:27:57.910
monastery there comes up to me and says,
01:27:57.920 --> 01:27:59.750
"Just be patient. We're just getting you
01:27:59.760 --> 01:28:02.629
some money for your for your boat fair."
01:28:02.639 --> 01:28:06.310
And then I just like got up and walked
01:28:06.320 --> 01:28:08.870
like, "Fuck this." And I just refused to
01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:10.390
go to his monastery ever again after
01:28:10.400 --> 01:28:12.390
that. I was that was more than enough
01:28:12.400 --> 01:28:14.229
for me. But that's often the way it
01:28:14.239 --> 01:28:17.030
goes. I remember uh another time when I
01:28:17.040 --> 01:28:19.910
left that that area in at Londono Kazapa
01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:23.430
National Park. Um I was I made this
01:28:23.440 --> 01:28:26.310
raft. I was going to try and try and be
01:28:26.320 --> 01:28:30.550
clever and just ride a raft that I made
01:28:30.560 --> 01:28:33.669
down to the Chinduin River and then down
01:28:33.679 --> 01:28:36.790
to this town of Monua. Uh but it it just
01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:39.350
wasn't working because this raft did not
01:28:39.360 --> 01:28:43.030
have good hydrodnamics like a canoe. As
01:28:43.040 --> 01:28:44.709
soon as you stop paddling, it would just
01:28:44.719 --> 01:28:47.030
stop. You know, there was there was no
01:28:47.040 --> 01:28:50.709
streamlining at all. And also, you had
01:28:50.719 --> 01:28:52.310
to be out in the middle of the river
01:28:52.320 --> 01:28:54.229
where the current was going, like near
01:28:54.239 --> 01:28:56.149
the banks of the river where the water's
01:28:56.159 --> 01:28:58.629
relatively shallow and safe. Then
01:28:58.639 --> 01:29:00.310
sometimes the current's actually going
01:29:00.320 --> 01:29:02.709
backwards. It took a while for me to
01:29:02.719 --> 01:29:05.430
realize that. So, I wind up stopping at
01:29:05.440 --> 01:29:07.830
this monastery by the side of the river
01:29:07.840 --> 01:29:09.990
and I asked where the the monastery was.
01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:11.750
I was going to just ask for permission
01:29:11.760 --> 01:29:13.910
to spend the night at their monastery.
01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:17.430
And I get to the congregation hall and
01:29:17.440 --> 01:29:19.910
there's this shady looking monk, his
01:29:19.920 --> 01:29:22.070
teeth all red from Chew and Beetle,
01:29:22.080 --> 01:29:24.149
sitting there on a stool with a handful
01:29:24.159 --> 01:29:26.550
of money. And the villagers who wanted
01:29:26.560 --> 01:29:29.350
to go into the the the monastery
01:29:29.360 --> 01:29:31.430
congregation hall to watch TV on the
01:29:31.440 --> 01:29:34.470
monastery's TV set had to pay to get in.
01:29:34.480 --> 01:29:37.350
And you had this this monk chew and
01:29:37.360 --> 01:29:39.669
beetle with a handful of money just
01:29:39.679 --> 01:29:42.310
collecting collecting the money. I mean
01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:43.910
it wasn't even really donations. It's
01:29:43.920 --> 01:29:45.590
like you want to watch our TV you got to
01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:48.310
pay. And that kind of [ __ ] is just all
01:29:48.320 --> 01:29:51.110
over the country. In Mon state in the
01:29:51.120 --> 01:29:53.510
south there's a little stricter monastic
01:29:53.520 --> 01:29:55.830
discipline. certain areas like Shan
01:29:55.840 --> 01:29:57.350
State and like the the area of
01:29:57.360 --> 01:30:04.149
Mandandalay is just notoriously bad.
01:30:04.159 --> 01:30:07.270
School monasteries are like snake pits.
01:30:07.280 --> 01:30:08.950
I stayed at a school monastery for over
01:30:08.960 --> 01:30:10.470
a year in Mahag Gandhi which had a
01:30:10.480 --> 01:30:11.750
reputation for being one of the stricter
01:30:11.760 --> 01:30:14.870
ones and it was maybe 10% of the SA
01:30:14.880 --> 01:30:16.950
didn't handle money there but still you
01:30:16.960 --> 01:30:19.590
got these signs up outside the the
01:30:19.600 --> 01:30:22.870
outhouse you know where you know Winnia
01:30:22.880 --> 01:30:24.310
a book for sale you know book on
01:30:24.320 --> 01:30:27.030
monastic discipline for sale this kind
01:30:27.040 --> 01:30:28.709
of stuff
01:30:28.719 --> 01:30:33.270
so yeah this varapo he's just a western
01:30:33.280 --> 01:30:37.270
version of a kind of fake monk that is
01:30:37.280 --> 01:30:42.390
not a rare species in Asian Buddhism.
01:30:42.400 --> 01:30:44.310
And like I said, in answer to the
01:30:44.320 --> 01:30:47.350
question, the uh the lay people, a lot
01:30:47.360 --> 01:30:48.709
of lay people don't even know it's
01:30:48.719 --> 01:30:49.910
against the rules. I mean, when you've
01:30:49.920 --> 01:30:53.110
got the the leader of the the the SA in
01:30:53.120 --> 01:30:55.669
the entire country telling you that
01:30:55.679 --> 01:30:57.590
you're going to get all this merit for
01:30:57.600 --> 01:30:59.189
donating money to monks, I mean, what
01:30:59.199 --> 01:31:03.910
are they supposed to believe?
01:31:03.920 --> 01:31:07.110
So after that herang, which has probably
01:31:07.120 --> 01:31:09.030
just destroyed the faith of everybody
01:31:09.040 --> 01:31:11.590
watching this video,
01:31:11.600 --> 01:31:14.470
I'm going to go back to protoseud's
01:31:14.480 --> 01:31:16.790
third question.
01:31:16.800 --> 01:31:18.790
What are the karmic results for such
01:31:18.800 --> 01:31:22.950
behavior? Straight to hell? Well,
01:31:22.960 --> 01:31:24.790
I would guess that you're probably not
01:31:24.800 --> 01:31:26.229
going to go straight to hell unless it's
01:31:26.239 --> 01:31:28.629
really an egregious case of ripping
01:31:28.639 --> 01:31:31.430
people off as a monk. I mean if we can
01:31:31.440 --> 01:31:34.709
if we can go by the texts themselves
01:31:34.719 --> 01:31:38.070
then um you know there's a number of
01:31:38.080 --> 01:31:42.550
sutas or uh also scenes in in the books
01:31:42.560 --> 01:31:44.709
of monastic discipline where
01:31:44.719 --> 01:31:47.590
Mahamogalana I think would be walking
01:31:47.600 --> 01:31:49.430
along with some other monk and he'd
01:31:49.440 --> 01:31:51.350
start smiling and then the other monk
01:31:51.360 --> 01:31:52.870
would ask him why are you smiling? He
01:31:52.880 --> 01:31:54.310
says wait till we get back to the
01:31:54.320 --> 01:31:56.390
monastery and I'll tell you. So then
01:31:56.400 --> 01:31:58.310
they get back to the monastery. The the
01:31:58.320 --> 01:32:00.310
monk asks the venerable one, you know,
01:32:00.320 --> 01:32:02.310
why were you smiling? And he would give
01:32:02.320 --> 01:32:05.750
this this account of some ghost that he
01:32:05.760 --> 01:32:09.270
had seen like hungry ghosts where, you
01:32:09.280 --> 01:32:11.910
know, you've got some ghost that's on
01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:13.910
fire just flying through the air
01:32:13.920 --> 01:32:16.390
screaming. Or you've got some ghost that
01:32:16.400 --> 01:32:19.430
has elephantasis of the scrotum. and
01:32:19.440 --> 01:32:21.669
you've got like hawks and crows all
01:32:21.679 --> 01:32:24.229
pecking at his balls where he's, you
01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:27.030
know, obviously in great distress, this
01:32:27.040 --> 01:32:30.390
kind of thing. And it was always a case
01:32:30.400 --> 01:32:34.229
of somebody in a like a position of high
01:32:34.239 --> 01:32:37.830
trust and authority like
01:32:37.840 --> 01:32:40.870
abusing that trust. So like a corrupt
01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:43.990
judge that would take bribes or monks
01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:46.870
and nuns who just were not keeping their
01:32:46.880 --> 01:32:48.790
vows at all and were just taking
01:32:48.800 --> 01:32:52.790
advantage of the faith and like credul
01:32:52.800 --> 01:32:55.030
of the lay people. So going with
01:32:55.040 --> 01:32:57.270
Orthodox Terravada
01:32:57.280 --> 01:32:59.669
just a shameless corrupt monk who's
01:32:59.679 --> 01:33:02.470
ripping people off under the guise of
01:33:02.480 --> 01:33:04.950
being a holy man. I mean, there's a good
01:33:04.960 --> 01:33:07.350
chance they'd wind up in the PA realm
01:33:07.360 --> 01:33:10.470
being tormented with crows pecking at
01:33:10.480 --> 01:33:13.669
their balls or some such, possibly go to
01:33:13.679 --> 01:33:17.510
hell, you know, if it's bad enough. Um
01:33:17.520 --> 01:33:20.229
but to some degree this is sort of a
01:33:20.239 --> 01:33:21.830
glorification
01:33:21.840 --> 01:33:23.830
of dharma which is understandable in a
01:33:23.840 --> 01:33:26.790
dhhamma text but I think a lot of these
01:33:26.800 --> 01:33:29.750
monks who are handling money I don't
01:33:29.760 --> 01:33:32.229
think every monk who handles money or
01:33:32.239 --> 01:33:35.030
every monk who's even asking for money
01:33:35.040 --> 01:33:39.669
is necessarily going to wind up in some
01:33:39.679 --> 01:33:41.830
gruesome lower realm that they're
01:33:41.840 --> 01:33:43.430
definitely going to be getting some kind
01:33:43.440 --> 01:33:45.510
of bad comma for. especially the ones
01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:48.629
that are just knowingly deceiving people
01:33:48.639 --> 01:33:52.550
like this varo admitted to doing that
01:33:52.560 --> 01:33:54.310
it's going to come back on them somehow.
01:33:54.320 --> 01:33:56.790
You don't know exactly how karma is
01:33:56.800 --> 01:33:59.110
going to come back to somebody. How what
01:33:59.120 --> 01:34:01.910
goes around comes around. I mean at the
01:34:01.920 --> 01:34:03.350
very least it's going to be something
01:34:03.360 --> 01:34:04.950
similar to what he perpetrated on
01:34:04.960 --> 01:34:07.669
others. He's going to have some kind of
01:34:07.679 --> 01:34:10.149
deep religious faith and he's going to
01:34:10.159 --> 01:34:12.709
wind up just getting like taken
01:34:12.719 --> 01:34:15.030
advantage of and exploited by some fake
01:34:15.040 --> 01:34:18.070
holy man himself,
01:34:18.080 --> 01:34:20.229
you know? Or he's just going to just
01:34:20.239 --> 01:34:23.430
have like deep faith in a charlatan
01:34:23.440 --> 01:34:25.350
who's just going to lead him astray
01:34:25.360 --> 01:34:27.350
maybe lifetime after lifetime because
01:34:27.360 --> 01:34:31.350
he's done it to so many other people.
01:34:31.360 --> 01:34:33.990
It is true. and what few videos of his
01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:36.070
that I have seen generally over my
01:34:36.080 --> 01:34:38.149
woman's shoulder as she watches because
01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:39.510
I mean she didn't believe in him from
01:34:39.520 --> 01:34:43.750
the very beginning that I mean he knows
01:34:43.760 --> 01:34:46.390
you know the words to say you know what
01:34:46.400 --> 01:34:49.430
he was saying wasn't like just flatout
01:34:49.440 --> 01:34:52.470
heresy or anything it reminds me of
01:34:52.480 --> 01:34:55.030
there's a certain documentary
01:34:55.040 --> 01:34:59.189
uh Kumar Kumari no I can't remember now
01:34:59.199 --> 01:35:02.310
but it was he was this Indian guy in
01:35:02.320 --> 01:35:03.590
living in America. I think he was born
01:35:03.600 --> 01:35:06.470
in New Jersey or something. And he
01:35:06.480 --> 01:35:08.390
decided to impersonate a holy man just
01:35:08.400 --> 01:35:10.229
to see what kind of results he would
01:35:10.239 --> 01:35:12.390
get. And he wound up having like a cult
01:35:12.400 --> 01:35:15.830
following. And then finally, I mean, it
01:35:15.840 --> 01:35:17.590
was like sometimes it would be really
01:35:17.600 --> 01:35:18.950
rough stuff. People would come up to
01:35:18.960 --> 01:35:20.310
him, you know, talking about how they
01:35:20.320 --> 01:35:22.790
were like incestuously abused as a
01:35:22.800 --> 01:35:25.030
child, this kind of stuff. And he's on
01:35:25.040 --> 01:35:26.629
the spot. I mean, he has to try and help
01:35:26.639 --> 01:35:28.709
them. and he's deliberately, you know,
01:35:28.719 --> 01:35:31.350
he's he's tr deliberately trying to [ __ ]
01:35:31.360 --> 01:35:33.270
them over or anything. He's just seeing
01:35:33.280 --> 01:35:35.669
how well he can, you know, just sort of
01:35:35.679 --> 01:35:37.350
throw himself into the role of a holy
01:35:37.360 --> 01:35:39.510
man. And I'm sorry, I can't remember the
01:35:39.520 --> 01:35:41.350
name of the documentary. It was it's
01:35:41.360 --> 01:35:43.750
it's worth watching.
01:35:43.760 --> 01:35:46.790
H yeah, I keep wanting to say Kumara or
01:35:46.800 --> 01:35:50.149
something like that, but at the end he's
01:35:50.159 --> 01:35:52.390
having he's going to like come clean and
01:35:52.400 --> 01:35:54.950
admit to his followers that he's just
01:35:54.960 --> 01:35:58.149
like this producer of documentaries born
01:35:58.159 --> 01:36:01.990
in New Jersey. And I mean he's like in
01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:03.990
the bathroom just like holding his head.
01:36:04.000 --> 01:36:05.990
I mean he is in this state of just panic
01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:09.830
and fear at at the result. And the only
01:36:09.840 --> 01:36:12.550
person who really behaved negatively was
01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:14.709
this yoga instructor who had started
01:36:14.719 --> 01:36:17.030
teaching his methods visualizing the
01:36:17.040 --> 01:36:18.550
blue light and all this stuff that he
01:36:18.560 --> 01:36:20.709
was just making up. You know, she was
01:36:20.719 --> 01:36:23.350
like ashamed of herself and pissed off
01:36:23.360 --> 01:36:25.110
because she actually bought into it and
01:36:25.120 --> 01:36:27.270
was like teaching his techniques. But
01:36:27.280 --> 01:36:29.110
most of the other people being kind of
01:36:29.120 --> 01:36:31.430
lukewarm westerners anyway, they just uh
01:36:31.440 --> 01:36:34.709
forgave him and you know shook his hand
01:36:34.719 --> 01:36:37.830
or whatever.
01:36:37.840 --> 01:36:42.310
So, the karmic results for monks that uh
01:36:42.320 --> 01:36:44.470
just exploit
01:36:44.480 --> 01:36:46.790
the the faith
01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:49.830
of their followers in order to get rich
01:36:49.840 --> 01:36:52.790
or whatever. Yeah. I mean, it's it's
01:36:52.800 --> 01:36:54.550
probably subtle. I mean, it's not like
01:36:54.560 --> 01:36:57.109
they're necessarily, you know, killing
01:36:57.119 --> 01:36:59.030
anybody,
01:36:59.040 --> 01:37:01.430
but it's uh yeah, it's it's really hard
01:37:01.440 --> 01:37:02.950
to say and it's going to it would depend
01:37:02.960 --> 01:37:05.270
on the individual. Like from the
01:37:05.280 --> 01:37:07.669
Buddhist point of view, the one thing
01:37:07.679 --> 01:37:10.470
that is worse than murder for a monk,
01:37:10.480 --> 01:37:12.629
you know, of of the four parajikas,
01:37:12.639 --> 01:37:15.030
they're they're like in in ascending
01:37:15.040 --> 01:37:16.790
order of severity, you know, you start
01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:19.990
with just having sex, which is for a
01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:22.149
monk bad enough. Then after that is
01:37:22.159 --> 01:37:25.189
stealing. Then after that is murder.
01:37:25.199 --> 01:37:28.229
Then what's even worse than that is
01:37:28.239 --> 01:37:31.590
deliberately lying to lay people about
01:37:31.600 --> 01:37:33.270
having attained superhuman mental
01:37:33.280 --> 01:37:35.030
states.
01:37:35.040 --> 01:37:38.310
So I don't know if this varapo guy I
01:37:38.320 --> 01:37:40.310
don't remember what his real name is. I
01:37:40.320 --> 01:37:42.070
don't know if he was actually going that
01:37:42.080 --> 01:37:44.870
far. I don't think he was like claiming
01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:46.870
to be enlightened or any such thing. So
01:37:46.880 --> 01:37:49.590
there there's at least that
01:37:49.600 --> 01:37:51.590
I mean that from the terab Buddhist
01:37:51.600 --> 01:37:55.830
point of view could land you in hell
01:37:55.840 --> 01:37:57.109
because that's even worse than murder
01:37:57.119 --> 01:38:00.229
for a monk to do.
01:38:00.239 --> 01:38:02.470
But just uh you know having the hand out
01:38:02.480 --> 01:38:05.109
for donations and I mean in his case he
01:38:05.119 --> 01:38:07.030
was having the hand out a lot because he
01:38:07.040 --> 01:38:08.790
was trying to become independently
01:38:08.800 --> 01:38:12.310
wealthy through doing this stuff that
01:38:12.320 --> 01:38:13.590
yeah there's going to be some kind of
01:38:13.600 --> 01:38:17.189
negative results possibly like I already
01:38:17.199 --> 01:38:19.030
said it may be that he's just going to
01:38:19.040 --> 01:38:21.830
get taken advantage of and exploited and
01:38:21.840 --> 01:38:24.950
disillusioned and just kind of have his
01:38:24.960 --> 01:38:29.030
faith [ __ ] over by somebody else
01:38:29.040 --> 01:38:31.910
maybe repeatedly.
01:38:31.920 --> 01:38:33.910
But it's really hard to say for
01:38:33.920 --> 01:38:35.510
different people. It's it's it's
01:38:35.520 --> 01:38:38.070
subjective. Karma is a subjective thing
01:38:38.080 --> 01:38:40.470
depending on your own vitions and so
01:38:40.480 --> 01:38:42.390
forth. So it's really hard for an
01:38:42.400 --> 01:38:45.189
external observer to really say what's
01:38:45.199 --> 01:38:48.390
going to happen.
01:38:48.400 --> 01:38:49.910
So I'm just going to move on to the next
01:38:49.920 --> 01:38:53.030
question. This is from Tzas is
01:38:53.040 --> 01:38:56.470
in a kind of humorous vein. He says, "If
01:38:56.480 --> 01:38:58.629
Earth is the third planet from the sun,
01:38:58.639 --> 01:39:00.390
does that mean all countries are third
01:39:00.400 --> 01:39:03.669
world countries?" No.
01:39:03.679 --> 01:39:07.109
Trescus is a second question. I managed
01:39:07.119 --> 01:39:08.709
to get through the first week following
01:39:08.719 --> 01:39:12.070
the fifth precept.
01:39:12.080 --> 01:39:15.510
Okay. What do you say? Well, Tresasquez
01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:20.229
is he uh admits to to being an alcoholic
01:39:20.239 --> 01:39:24.709
and recently he uh has gone cold turkey
01:39:24.719 --> 01:39:27.270
and has gone a week without drinking
01:39:27.280 --> 01:39:28.709
anything. He went through the withdrawal
01:39:28.719 --> 01:39:30.950
symptoms and everything and so I mean
01:39:30.960 --> 01:39:34.070
all I can say is saw saw sadu good work.
01:39:34.080 --> 01:39:37.910
Congratulations and uh stick with it.
01:39:37.920 --> 01:39:39.669
Don't just start getting complacent and
01:39:39.679 --> 01:39:42.229
fall off the wagon.
01:39:42.239 --> 01:39:45.430
And with regard to this, I assume it's
01:39:45.440 --> 01:39:48.149
it's getable, but the letters of
01:39:48.159 --> 01:39:51.910
venerable Nana Vera, who wrote Clearing
01:39:51.920 --> 01:39:54.390
the Path, I think is his famous book.
01:39:54.400 --> 01:39:57.189
He's he's this notorious eccentric,
01:39:57.199 --> 01:39:59.590
intellectual, existentialist British
01:39:59.600 --> 01:40:03.990
monk who lived in son from like 1950 to
01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:07.109
1965 and considered himself to have
01:40:07.119 --> 01:40:12.070
become a sodapono. He went to son also
01:40:12.080 --> 01:40:14.229
known as Sri Lanka with the first famous
01:40:14.239 --> 01:40:18.550
nyanamole Osbert Moore and he eventually
01:40:18.560 --> 01:40:21.990
selfdeleted in 1965 but he has quite the
01:40:22.000 --> 01:40:23.510
following now he has much more of a
01:40:23.520 --> 01:40:24.950
following now than he did when he was
01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:27.830
alive especially among um like
01:40:27.840 --> 01:40:32.149
intellectual western monks and um some
01:40:32.159 --> 01:40:34.390
Sri Lankan monks like intellectual ones
01:40:34.400 --> 01:40:36.149
because he's he's very intellectual he
01:40:36.159 --> 01:40:38.470
was really into existentialism before he
01:40:38.480 --> 01:40:40.149
became a monk monk and he was converted
01:40:40.159 --> 01:40:44.070
to Buddhism by reading Julius Ivola,
01:40:44.080 --> 01:40:46.870
Julius Ivola's uh famous book on
01:40:46.880 --> 01:40:48.709
Buddhism
01:40:48.719 --> 01:40:51.830
when he was like in a hospital in Italy
01:40:51.840 --> 01:40:53.590
during World War II, I think he was in
01:40:53.600 --> 01:40:55.109
the military, the like the British
01:40:55.119 --> 01:40:57.430
military in World War II.
01:40:57.440 --> 01:41:01.669
So in his letters that are often like
01:41:01.679 --> 01:41:03.510
connected to his clearing the path and
01:41:03.520 --> 01:41:04.870
which I consider to be much more
01:41:04.880 --> 01:41:06.709
interesting, you know, it's just letters
01:41:06.719 --> 01:41:08.550
where he's talking about, you know, the
01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:11.750
monk's life and existentialism, this
01:41:11.760 --> 01:41:14.149
kind of stuff,
01:41:14.159 --> 01:41:16.709
FH Bradley, you know, his favorite
01:41:16.719 --> 01:41:18.149
philosophers, you know, he's mentioning
01:41:18.159 --> 01:41:20.470
those in his letter sometimes that he
01:41:20.480 --> 01:41:22.790
talks about like the psychology of
01:41:22.800 --> 01:41:25.910
addiction. And I read it a long time ago
01:41:25.920 --> 01:41:27.510
and I'm not going to try and repeat it
01:41:27.520 --> 01:41:29.350
because I'm not sure I'm not at all
01:41:29.360 --> 01:41:31.109
confident that I get it right. But what
01:41:31.119 --> 01:41:33.510
he said about addiction and what it
01:41:33.520 --> 01:41:36.470
takes to really overcome addiction is on
01:41:36.480 --> 01:41:39.990
point. And if if Tzasquez is can find
01:41:40.000 --> 01:41:43.270
the letters of venerable Nyanaviraa
01:41:43.280 --> 01:41:45.430
and and find, you know, what he was
01:41:45.440 --> 01:41:47.430
saying about addiction, it could be
01:41:47.440 --> 01:41:49.669
available from Path Press, which I
01:41:49.679 --> 01:41:52.310
recently found out also has free copies
01:41:52.320 --> 01:41:54.790
of my Antakawaga translation. I think
01:41:54.800 --> 01:41:57.590
they're free. So if you look up Path
01:41:57.600 --> 01:42:01.669
Press, um Path Press was originally
01:42:01.679 --> 01:42:04.550
founded by followers of this same
01:42:04.560 --> 01:42:06.709
Yanova. So probably they would have his
01:42:06.719 --> 01:42:08.310
clearing the path and his letters
01:42:08.320 --> 01:42:11.510
available in addition to my translation
01:42:11.520 --> 01:42:13.590
of the atikawaga which is big you know
01:42:13.600 --> 01:42:18.149
it's it's a goodly sized book but um on
01:42:18.159 --> 01:42:20.229
on the better side it's it's got the
01:42:20.239 --> 01:42:21.830
English and poly just completely
01:42:21.840 --> 01:42:24.550
opposite each other unlike my new
01:42:24.560 --> 01:42:27.510
translation where they're not facing the
01:42:27.520 --> 01:42:29.430
corresponding verses poly and English
01:42:29.440 --> 01:42:32.629
are not necessarily facing on opposite
01:42:32.639 --> 01:42:36.470
sides of the book. So yeah, maybe you
01:42:36.480 --> 01:42:38.950
could find the writings of venerable
01:42:38.960 --> 01:42:43.030
Nano Vera uh from Path Press, which
01:42:43.040 --> 01:42:45.189
should be easily findable online. And
01:42:45.199 --> 01:42:47.030
what he does say about addiction, it's
01:42:47.040 --> 01:42:49.830
like you have to be like 100% to
01:42:49.840 --> 01:42:51.750
overcome addiction. You know, it's it's
01:42:51.760 --> 01:42:54.709
like part of your mind likes the
01:42:54.719 --> 01:42:56.709
addiction. So that's the hard part cuz
01:42:56.719 --> 01:42:58.310
when that part of your mind that likes
01:42:58.320 --> 01:43:01.750
the addiction is allowed to take over,
01:43:01.760 --> 01:43:03.669
then of course you fall off the wagon.
01:43:03.679 --> 01:43:06.550
So there has to be like a well I'm not
01:43:06.560 --> 01:43:09.030
even going to try and repeat whatever
01:43:09.040 --> 01:43:10.390
said about it but what he said was
01:43:10.400 --> 01:43:13.109
insightful and intelligent and largely
01:43:13.119 --> 01:43:15.350
correct I think. So that's something you
01:43:15.360 --> 01:43:19.510
could look up if you're into that.
01:43:19.520 --> 01:43:22.709
But congratulations on
01:43:22.719 --> 01:43:25.109
like not drinking. My father was a
01:43:25.119 --> 01:43:27.189
hardcore alcoholic. He was like an
01:43:27.199 --> 01:43:29.189
Eastern European type alcoholic. He
01:43:29.199 --> 01:43:31.750
drank about a fifth of vodka a day. And
01:43:31.760 --> 01:43:34.470
when he cold turkeyed, I mean, he was
01:43:34.480 --> 01:43:37.910
like having serious delirium tremens,
01:43:37.920 --> 01:43:39.590
you know, he was hallucinating and all
01:43:39.600 --> 01:43:42.950
kinds of stuff. It was it was difficult.
01:43:42.960 --> 01:43:46.390
So, good luck with that.
01:43:46.400 --> 01:43:47.669
And I'm just going to move on. Next
01:43:47.679 --> 01:43:51.270
question. This is from Cyrus Frame.
01:43:51.280 --> 01:43:53.990
Let's see. Okay, this is from Cyrus
01:43:54.000 --> 01:43:56.790
Frame as I just said. And Cyrus Frame
01:43:56.800 --> 01:43:59.590
says,"I really liked your idea of there
01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:03.270
being only one scand or polyconda
01:44:03.280 --> 01:44:04.950
uh perception and valition or
01:44:04.960 --> 01:44:07.030
perception/volition
01:44:07.040 --> 01:44:09.750
both being just one aggregate.
01:44:09.760 --> 01:44:12.390
It seems to me that it is a byproduct of
01:44:12.400 --> 01:44:14.709
natural selection. For example, you hear
01:44:14.719 --> 01:44:17.990
a tiger roar and you run or freeze. The
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:19.910
perception of the sound and the urge to
01:44:19.920 --> 01:44:22.070
move are a single unified biological
01:44:22.080 --> 01:44:25.510
event. It is language that makes a
01:44:25.520 --> 01:44:28.390
distinction but that is a map of the
01:44:28.400 --> 01:44:31.510
process not the thing itself. The map
01:44:31.520 --> 01:44:34.229
can be useful but it is important not to
01:44:34.239 --> 01:44:36.950
mistake the map for the territory. Is
01:44:36.960 --> 01:44:38.870
this what you have in mind when you say
01:44:38.880 --> 01:44:41.669
there is only one scand? Okay. I got to
01:44:41.679 --> 01:44:43.109
look back at the bookcase to see if I
01:44:43.119 --> 01:44:49.189
have the book still.
01:44:49.199 --> 01:44:51.990
Okay.
01:44:52.000 --> 01:44:58.790
apparently. Oh, here it is.
01:44:58.800 --> 01:45:02.390
I still have the book. Okay.
01:45:02.400 --> 01:45:05.830
So, the very first philosophical essay
01:45:05.840 --> 01:45:09.189
on Buddhism I ever wrote was on the
01:45:09.199 --> 01:45:11.430
mainly trying to explain the five
01:45:11.440 --> 01:45:14.629
condas, especially the four mental ones.
01:45:14.639 --> 01:45:17.750
And it was caused by reading this book.
01:45:17.760 --> 01:45:19.830
I found this book at a used bookstore in
01:45:19.840 --> 01:45:21.430
Mandandalay
01:45:21.440 --> 01:45:24.629
long ago. Buddhist logic volume two. I
01:45:24.639 --> 01:45:26.709
never I never had volume one. I think I
01:45:26.719 --> 01:45:28.629
eventually found it and read it. And
01:45:28.639 --> 01:45:31.990
it's by Theodore Cherbatski who was a
01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:36.390
Russian like a a Buddhistic scholar
01:45:36.400 --> 01:45:38.390
back before the Soviet Union, like well
01:45:38.400 --> 01:45:40.790
over a hundred years ago. And there's
01:45:40.800 --> 01:45:42.550
one statement in here. I don't I'm not
01:45:42.560 --> 01:45:44.149
going to try and find it. Well,
01:45:44.159 --> 01:45:45.590
actually, I am kind of, but I'm not
01:45:45.600 --> 01:45:49.350
going to find it. But there's this one
01:45:49.360 --> 01:45:51.910
statement he makes in here about how
01:45:51.920 --> 01:45:54.390
there's like an artificial distinction
01:45:54.400 --> 01:45:58.550
between like the spatial aspect and the
01:45:58.560 --> 01:46:01.510
temporal aspect of the same thing. And
01:46:01.520 --> 01:46:03.669
that caused me to to really start
01:46:03.679 --> 01:46:06.790
thinking especially with regard to like
01:46:06.800 --> 01:46:09.430
perception and volition. I mean really
01:46:09.440 --> 01:46:12.310
the thought experiment that really got
01:46:12.320 --> 01:46:15.830
me going on this whole idea that Cyrus
01:46:15.840 --> 01:46:18.709
frame is referring to was just the idea
01:46:18.719 --> 01:46:21.350
of what is it that comes first is it
01:46:21.360 --> 01:46:24.229
perception or volition because I mean
01:46:24.239 --> 01:46:25.590
how are you going to direct your
01:46:25.600 --> 01:46:27.669
attention to something
01:46:27.679 --> 01:46:29.750
I mean you can't direct your attention
01:46:29.760 --> 01:46:31.910
to something before you perceive its
01:46:31.920 --> 01:46:35.510
existence but then how do you become
01:46:35.520 --> 01:46:38.390
aware of it direct your I mean attention
01:46:38.400 --> 01:46:41.590
of it without I mean it's like how can
01:46:41.600 --> 01:46:44.310
one come before the other either you
01:46:44.320 --> 01:46:45.990
have to have the volition to direct your
01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:48.470
attention at something without having
01:46:48.480 --> 01:46:51.030
perceived it yet or you have to perceive
01:46:51.040 --> 01:46:52.390
it without having directed your
01:46:52.400 --> 01:46:54.950
attention to it. So it seems like the
01:46:54.960 --> 01:46:56.390
perception and the volition involved
01:46:56.400 --> 01:46:58.390
would have to be simultaneous which
01:46:58.400 --> 01:47:01.350
ultimately Buddhism does teach
01:47:01.360 --> 01:47:04.790
and it's like if if they have to arise
01:47:04.800 --> 01:47:07.030
together they can't possibly be
01:47:07.040 --> 01:47:09.830
separated they always necessarily arise
01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:13.030
in the same place at the same time and
01:47:13.040 --> 01:47:14.629
can't be separate they can't exist
01:47:14.639 --> 01:47:16.629
independently of each other which terra
01:47:16.639 --> 01:47:18.550
Buddhism teaches then really it's just
01:47:18.560 --> 01:47:19.830
two different ways of looking at the
01:47:19.840 --> 01:47:22.870
same thing that's what that's what
01:47:22.880 --> 01:47:25.750
occurred to me.
01:47:25.760 --> 01:47:29.590
So that was just sort of like a a kind
01:47:29.600 --> 01:47:31.830
of capernic revolution in my mind with
01:47:31.840 --> 01:47:33.990
regard to understanding
01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:36.950
Buddhist philosophy. I think
01:47:36.960 --> 01:47:38.790
um
01:47:38.800 --> 01:47:41.669
you know it's just like there's just one
01:47:41.679 --> 01:47:44.149
mental because I mean you've got these
01:47:44.159 --> 01:47:47.430
two other mentalas that are waiting or
01:47:47.440 --> 01:47:49.189
feeling plus consciousness. So
01:47:49.199 --> 01:47:51.590
perception and volition it seems to me
01:47:51.600 --> 01:47:53.430
that they're the same. It's just the
01:47:53.440 --> 01:47:55.750
temporal aspect and the the spatial
01:47:55.760 --> 01:47:57.590
aspect or the the static and the
01:47:57.600 --> 01:48:00.709
kinetic, the the noun and the verb, noun
01:48:00.719 --> 01:48:03.430
and predicate that are just artificially
01:48:03.440 --> 01:48:05.270
separated when really it's just two
01:48:05.280 --> 01:48:07.270
aspects of the same thing like light and
01:48:07.280 --> 01:48:10.070
shining or wind and blowing. You can't
01:48:10.080 --> 01:48:11.350
have one without the other. You can't
01:48:11.360 --> 01:48:13.189
have light without shining. You cannot
01:48:13.199 --> 01:48:15.669
have shining without light. It's just a
01:48:15.679 --> 01:48:17.510
noun and a verb that are referring to
01:48:17.520 --> 01:48:21.030
exactly the same thing. And so I came up
01:48:21.040 --> 01:48:25.510
with this idea back around 1996 or so
01:48:25.520 --> 01:48:27.750
that
01:48:27.760 --> 01:48:31.030
it's like perception is like the static
01:48:31.040 --> 01:48:35.590
or noun aspect and volition is just sort
01:48:35.600 --> 01:48:37.990
of like the active kinetic aspect of the
01:48:38.000 --> 01:48:41.830
same thing the very same phenomenon.
01:48:41.840 --> 01:48:44.870
And then I went further with feeling. I
01:48:44.880 --> 01:48:46.629
mean this wasn't in my first essay. This
01:48:46.639 --> 01:48:48.229
is sort of a later development. But
01:48:48.239 --> 01:48:49.590
feeling really is just another kind of
01:48:49.600 --> 01:48:51.669
perception. At first in this essay that
01:48:51.679 --> 01:48:53.430
I wrote, feeling was just bare
01:48:53.440 --> 01:48:59.350
sensation, unprocessed sensory data. But
01:48:59.360 --> 01:49:01.910
um I think it's in this book also with
01:49:01.920 --> 01:49:04.070
in a like a different section. It's
01:49:04.080 --> 01:49:07.109
talking about the the Dignaga school of
01:49:07.119 --> 01:49:11.350
of Buddhism which was like a a medieval
01:49:11.360 --> 01:49:14.950
Mahayana logical school of Buddhism in
01:49:14.960 --> 01:49:18.550
India. And there was uh venerable Dharma
01:49:18.560 --> 01:49:20.310
is one of the leading philosophers in
01:49:20.320 --> 01:49:22.390
that group and he pointed out that bare
01:49:22.400 --> 01:49:24.950
sensation without any kind of like
01:49:24.960 --> 01:49:28.070
perceptual interpretation at all. I mean
01:49:28.080 --> 01:49:30.870
it's the same as it not even being there
01:49:30.880 --> 01:49:34.390
you know to to exist is to be perceived.
01:49:34.400 --> 01:49:40.229
So the whole thing of of void being um
01:49:40.239 --> 01:49:43.669
just bare unprocessed sensory data, it
01:49:43.679 --> 01:49:45.030
just kind of falls through because it's
01:49:45.040 --> 01:49:47.750
like a non non-existent thing until it
01:49:47.760 --> 01:49:49.030
gets perceived and then all you're
01:49:49.040 --> 01:49:52.950
really aware of is the perception.
01:49:52.960 --> 01:49:55.030
And consciousness is just kind of the
01:49:55.040 --> 01:49:57.590
the substance of the perception and the
01:49:57.600 --> 01:49:59.590
valition. You know, the perception and
01:49:59.600 --> 01:50:02.070
valition are like the the form that the
01:50:02.080 --> 01:50:04.390
consciousness takes.
01:50:04.400 --> 01:50:07.990
So ultimately it's all just one. If you
01:50:08.000 --> 01:50:11.270
include feeling like pleasure and pain
01:50:11.280 --> 01:50:13.430
as just perceptions, which is what I'm
01:50:13.440 --> 01:50:15.669
inclined to do now,
01:50:15.679 --> 01:50:18.470
there's no need to to separate feeling
01:50:18.480 --> 01:50:22.070
from perception. If it's just like
01:50:22.080 --> 01:50:25.510
feeling is just sort of like a a less
01:50:25.520 --> 01:50:28.070
intellectual kind of perception, you
01:50:28.080 --> 01:50:29.510
know, it's just kind of a sensory
01:50:29.520 --> 01:50:31.910
perception, but it's all perception.
01:50:31.920 --> 01:50:33.270
It's just sort of like an arbitrary
01:50:33.280 --> 01:50:35.430
distinction. You got verbal perception
01:50:35.440 --> 01:50:37.669
and nonverbal perception, that kind of
01:50:37.679 --> 01:50:39.910
thing or like, you know, pictorial would
01:50:39.920 --> 01:50:43.189
be kind of along with verbal.
01:50:43.199 --> 01:50:44.790
But I don't I don't even see that
01:50:44.800 --> 01:50:46.310
there's necessarily a qualitative
01:50:46.320 --> 01:50:47.830
difference. You know, it's all just
01:50:47.840 --> 01:50:49.990
symbols that are a kind of
01:50:50.000 --> 01:50:52.870
interpretation of what supposedly is is
01:50:52.880 --> 01:50:54.470
happening,
01:50:54.480 --> 01:50:59.189
but that's all you're really exposed to.
01:50:59.199 --> 01:51:01.189
Gosh, I don't know if if I'm just
01:51:01.199 --> 01:51:03.189
conmystifying everybody and and boring
01:51:03.199 --> 01:51:04.790
everybody by talking about this kind of
01:51:04.800 --> 01:51:06.310
stuff.
01:51:06.320 --> 01:51:09.350
So, let's see.
01:51:09.360 --> 01:51:11.430
Oh, perception of the sound and the urge
01:51:11.440 --> 01:51:13.109
to move or single unified biological
01:51:13.119 --> 01:51:15.830
event. Well, not necessarily. I mean,
01:51:15.840 --> 01:51:17.350
the perception of the sound and the urge
01:51:17.360 --> 01:51:19.430
to move are not necessarily the same,
01:51:19.440 --> 01:51:22.149
unless maybe it's just like this reflex
01:51:22.159 --> 01:51:23.910
where you just jump when you hear a loud
01:51:23.920 --> 01:51:26.629
noise, but you hear like a rustling in
01:51:26.639 --> 01:51:28.790
the bushes. That's not going to be the
01:51:28.800 --> 01:51:33.270
the exact same as the urge to move
01:51:33.280 --> 01:51:35.270
cuz sometimes you just stop and, you
01:51:35.280 --> 01:51:37.830
know, just freeze, you know, and then
01:51:37.840 --> 01:51:40.870
try and understand what it is. But we
01:51:40.880 --> 01:51:42.310
don't need to get into that. So, let's
01:51:42.320 --> 01:51:44.149
see. The map can be useful is important.
01:51:44.159 --> 01:51:45.910
So where's the actual question? Oh, is
01:51:45.920 --> 01:51:47.589
this what you have in mind when you say
01:51:47.599 --> 01:51:50.310
there is only one cond?
01:51:50.320 --> 01:51:51.910
Um
01:51:51.920 --> 01:51:53.669
yeah, I mean I already explained what I
01:51:53.679 --> 01:51:56.229
what I had in mind is that you know it's
01:51:56.239 --> 01:51:59.430
all our world is will and perception.
01:51:59.440 --> 01:52:02.070
It's like schopenhau the world as will
01:52:02.080 --> 01:52:05.750
and representation. Will is chidina
01:52:05.760 --> 01:52:09.510
representation is sya. So it's samsara
01:52:09.520 --> 01:52:12.550
as chedana and sya. That's how you would
01:52:12.560 --> 01:52:14.790
translate schopenhau into more
01:52:14.800 --> 01:52:17.669
Buddhistic language. And the vdana, the
01:52:17.679 --> 01:52:19.189
feeling is just another kind of
01:52:19.199 --> 01:52:20.470
perception. It's just sort of a
01:52:20.480 --> 01:52:22.870
non-verbal kind of perception. And
01:52:22.880 --> 01:52:25.030
consciousness itself
01:52:25.040 --> 01:52:28.550
is just sort of like the formless
01:52:28.560 --> 01:52:31.030
essence of it all.
01:52:31.040 --> 01:52:32.870
So that's how I get down to one cond. I
01:52:32.880 --> 01:52:35.589
mean physical I mean the rupaconda I
01:52:35.599 --> 01:52:36.870
mean you can't prove that that even
01:52:36.880 --> 01:52:39.910
exists at all. I mean the only way you
01:52:39.920 --> 01:52:41.990
know of physical matter is through
01:52:42.000 --> 01:52:43.990
perception.
01:52:44.000 --> 01:52:48.149
So that's perception too.
01:52:48.159 --> 01:52:50.229
So that's that's how I did it. I mean
01:52:50.239 --> 01:52:52.709
the the first step was from reading
01:52:52.719 --> 01:52:55.669
Cherbatsk's Buddhist logic that I got in
01:52:55.679 --> 01:52:59.510
Burma from a used bookstore.
01:52:59.520 --> 01:53:02.470
Um, which kind of got me thinking about
01:53:02.480 --> 01:53:05.430
how, you know, perception and valition
01:53:05.440 --> 01:53:08.390
have to be simultaneous and really it's
01:53:08.400 --> 01:53:10.950
just two ways of looking at the same
01:53:10.960 --> 01:53:12.790
phenomenon.
01:53:12.800 --> 01:53:14.870
One more as a noun and the other more as
01:53:14.880 --> 01:53:17.109
a verb.
01:53:17.119 --> 01:53:21.830
One static and one kinetic.
01:53:21.840 --> 01:53:24.229
So, let's see here.
01:53:24.239 --> 01:53:25.510
That's that's essentially what I had in
01:53:25.520 --> 01:53:27.510
mind. Although it's hard to explain
01:53:27.520 --> 01:53:31.109
stuff like this clearly, which is
01:53:31.119 --> 01:53:32.870
probably why most of you have already
01:53:32.880 --> 01:53:36.070
moved on to cat videos or something.
01:53:36.080 --> 01:53:39.030
Anyways, Cyrus Frame second question is
01:53:39.040 --> 01:53:41.030
the followup on the first one. He says,
01:53:41.040 --> 01:53:42.709
"Also, in coming up with this idea, were
01:53:42.719 --> 01:53:45.510
you influenced by FH Bradley?" And no,
01:53:45.520 --> 01:53:47.510
this was I came up with this idea before
01:53:47.520 --> 01:53:50.390
I ever heard of FH Bradley that I came
01:53:50.400 --> 01:53:55.109
up with this from from Cherbatski
01:53:55.119 --> 01:54:00.950
volume two. the FH Bradley. I um I first
01:54:00.960 --> 01:54:03.189
heard about FH Bradley from reading the
01:54:03.199 --> 01:54:06.229
the letters of Nyanova that I was
01:54:06.239 --> 01:54:08.709
discussing just a few minutes before
01:54:08.719 --> 01:54:10.870
that he was reading FH Bradley's
01:54:10.880 --> 01:54:14.070
principles of logic and so it sounded
01:54:14.080 --> 01:54:16.550
good because FH Bradley was a kind of
01:54:16.560 --> 01:54:19.750
idealist and he he followed the
01:54:19.760 --> 01:54:23.189
coherence theory of truth which is a
01:54:23.199 --> 01:54:25.430
statement is true if and only if it is
01:54:25.440 --> 01:54:28.709
compatible with all the other beliefs.
01:54:28.719 --> 01:54:33.030
of what you consider to be true.
01:54:33.040 --> 01:54:36.550
So yeah, it is not influenced by a phase
01:54:36.560 --> 01:54:38.629
broadly. And I'm just going to move on
01:54:38.639 --> 01:54:43.589
to the next question. This is from Cole.
01:54:43.599 --> 01:54:45.830
And Cole says,
01:54:45.840 --> 01:54:47.750
"I've been watching your archaic
01:54:47.760 --> 01:54:50.070
Buddhism series and something has really
01:54:50.080 --> 01:54:52.229
struck me that I would love to hear you
01:54:52.239 --> 01:54:55.990
elaborate on. The atakawaga suta or
01:54:56.000 --> 01:54:59.030
atkawaga has a very zen quality to it
01:54:59.040 --> 01:55:01.350
especially in regards to the emphasis on
01:55:01.360 --> 01:55:03.589
abandoning the conceptual thinking mode
01:55:03.599 --> 01:55:07.109
of the mind. Furthermore the chan or zen
01:55:07.119 --> 01:55:10.229
approach to meditation seems similar the
01:55:10.239 --> 01:55:13.430
jannaas I've even heard ajan sona
01:55:13.440 --> 01:55:16.790
mention that chan also zen is actually
01:55:16.800 --> 01:55:19.109
the Chinese word or Japanese word for
01:55:19.119 --> 01:55:21.430
janna. Do you have any thoughts about
01:55:21.440 --> 01:55:23.830
the parallel here between the various
01:55:23.840 --> 01:55:26.629
form and formless Janna's described and
01:55:26.639 --> 01:55:28.629
the Chan Zen teachings of meditative
01:55:28.639 --> 01:55:31.910
states regarding direct experience of
01:55:31.920 --> 01:55:35.030
the non-conceptual mind? Well, it is
01:55:35.040 --> 01:55:38.950
true that Chan and Zen are both derived
01:55:38.960 --> 01:55:42.070
from the Sanskrit word Janna, which
01:55:42.080 --> 01:55:44.310
isn't so much referring to the four
01:55:44.320 --> 01:55:47.189
Janna or the eight jas Buddhism, but it
01:55:47.199 --> 01:55:49.910
just means meditation. So Zen is the
01:55:49.920 --> 01:55:54.070
meditation school of Mahayana Buddhism.
01:55:54.080 --> 01:55:56.470
That's what it means. Essentially Janna
01:55:56.480 --> 01:55:59.030
literally means meditation. And even in
01:55:59.040 --> 01:56:02.870
poly it probably like the four Jas were
01:56:02.880 --> 01:56:05.910
just the four levels of meditation.
01:56:05.920 --> 01:56:08.790
Not like superhuman states. First Janna
01:56:08.800 --> 01:56:12.470
would just be elementary meditation done
01:56:12.480 --> 01:56:17.750
correctly in my opinion.
01:56:17.760 --> 01:56:19.750
So
01:56:19.760 --> 01:56:21.189
let's see what is the actual question
01:56:21.199 --> 01:56:23.510
here.
01:56:23.520 --> 01:56:25.910
See do you have any thoughts about the
01:56:25.920 --> 01:56:28.229
parallel here between the various form
01:56:28.239 --> 01:56:31.830
and formless genres described in the
01:56:31.840 --> 01:56:34.070
chen or zen teachings of meditation
01:56:34.080 --> 01:56:36.229
states regarding direct experience of
01:56:36.239 --> 01:56:40.229
the non-conceptual mind. Well I mean
01:56:40.239 --> 01:56:42.070
formless genres I consider to be an
01:56:42.080 --> 01:56:44.390
anacronism. I think the formless Jonas
01:56:44.400 --> 01:56:46.709
were added later, which is why they're
01:56:46.719 --> 01:56:48.790
just kind of tacked on to fourth Janna.
01:56:48.800 --> 01:56:50.709
They're seen as kind of annexes to
01:56:50.719 --> 01:56:53.510
fourth Janna. Originally, it was four
01:56:53.520 --> 01:56:55.830
Jonas.
01:56:55.840 --> 01:56:58.390
Abidama made a fifth Janna, which didn't
01:56:58.400 --> 01:57:00.229
really take didn't really strike
01:57:00.239 --> 01:57:03.270
traction. And then the formless realms.
01:57:03.280 --> 01:57:05.750
Um yeah that I pretty sure that was
01:57:05.760 --> 01:57:09.189
added later as the systematizers of
01:57:09.199 --> 01:57:11.750
Indian philosophy just kept running with
01:57:11.760 --> 01:57:14.390
the ball and adding more and more stuff
01:57:14.400 --> 01:57:16.790
making stuff more and more complicated
01:57:16.800 --> 01:57:20.470
and hopefully comprehensive but they
01:57:20.480 --> 01:57:22.070
didn't really succeed at that in my
01:57:22.080 --> 01:57:23.589
opinion.
01:57:23.599 --> 01:57:28.149
But the atikawaga of the sutini pata um
01:57:28.159 --> 01:57:29.910
yeah it has been called like proto
01:57:29.920 --> 01:57:33.189
majamaka that like puggya paramita and
01:57:33.199 --> 01:57:36.229
majamaka really were a kind of reform
01:57:36.239 --> 01:57:38.629
movement getting back to the earliest
01:57:38.639 --> 01:57:40.390
teachings or attempting to get back to
01:57:40.400 --> 01:57:43.189
the earliest teachings uh and get away
01:57:43.199 --> 01:57:46.310
from this scholastic hyper complicated
01:57:46.320 --> 01:57:48.310
gobbleygook like the abidama
01:57:48.320 --> 01:57:50.629
philosophies.
01:57:50.639 --> 01:57:52.390
So yeah, it's like the Buddha probably
01:57:52.400 --> 01:57:55.350
was originally teaching that you're not
01:57:55.360 --> 01:57:57.510
going to become enlightened by having
01:57:57.520 --> 01:57:59.189
views. You're not going to become
01:57:59.199 --> 01:58:02.790
enlightened by figuring anything out, by
01:58:02.800 --> 01:58:04.629
thinking about anything because all of
01:58:04.639 --> 01:58:09.589
that is just perception.
01:58:09.599 --> 01:58:11.350
That if you want to know ultimate
01:58:11.360 --> 01:58:14.950
reality, you have to stop perceiving,
01:58:14.960 --> 01:58:16.709
stop trying to understand it through
01:58:16.719 --> 01:58:19.430
perception and just get straight to it.
01:58:19.440 --> 01:58:21.350
in the scene only the scene in the herd
01:58:21.360 --> 01:58:24.070
only the herd etc and not cling even to
01:58:24.080 --> 01:58:27.430
that.
01:58:27.440 --> 01:58:30.229
So yeah, Zen Buddhism in certain ways
01:58:30.239 --> 01:58:33.109
may come closer to the original spirit
01:58:33.119 --> 01:58:36.310
of archaic Buddhism than later
01:58:36.320 --> 01:58:39.189
developments of Terravada, for example,
01:58:39.199 --> 01:58:42.070
Abidama and the the commentarial
01:58:42.080 --> 01:58:43.750
tradition and a lot of the devotional
01:58:43.760 --> 01:58:46.149
stuff. Although Zen itself is very
01:58:46.159 --> 01:58:48.550
corrupt with a lot of pure land stuff, a
01:58:48.560 --> 01:58:50.550
lot of mythology and so forth thrown
01:58:50.560 --> 01:58:52.709
into that. Also,
01:58:52.719 --> 01:58:54.709
I was somewhat disillusioned when I
01:58:54.719 --> 01:58:57.030
first went to a Zen monastery because
01:58:57.040 --> 01:58:59.910
when you read books about Zen, it's it's
01:58:59.920 --> 01:59:03.750
all these men dressed in black standing
01:59:03.760 --> 01:59:06.070
around speaking in riddles and hitting
01:59:06.080 --> 01:59:08.470
each other with sticks. And then you go
01:59:08.480 --> 01:59:11.510
to an actual Zen monastery in say
01:59:11.520 --> 01:59:14.310
California and nobody hits anybody with
01:59:14.320 --> 01:59:16.070
sticks and nobody talks in riddles
01:59:16.080 --> 01:59:18.550
really, you know, it's just it's just
01:59:18.560 --> 01:59:21.669
rather mundane, which didn't really
01:59:21.679 --> 01:59:23.669
attract me much at all. I mean, at least
01:59:23.679 --> 01:59:25.350
there should be one person hitting
01:59:25.360 --> 01:59:27.750
people with sticks.
01:59:27.760 --> 01:59:30.790
But no, I mean, every story I've ever
01:59:30.800 --> 01:59:33.750
read about the the Zen master Renzai,
01:59:33.760 --> 01:59:36.149
the founder of the Renzai School of Zen
01:59:36.159 --> 01:59:38.470
in Japan, every single story I've ever
01:59:38.480 --> 01:59:41.109
read about him, he's hitting somebody
01:59:41.119 --> 01:59:46.550
with a stick or just punching them.
01:59:46.560 --> 01:59:50.470
But I'm digressing wildly at this point.
01:59:50.480 --> 01:59:52.070
So, do I have any thoughts about the
01:59:52.080 --> 01:59:54.310
parallel between the various form and
01:59:54.320 --> 01:59:57.669
formless Jon as well? not so much that
01:59:57.679 --> 01:59:59.510
described in the Chanzen teachings of
01:59:59.520 --> 02:00:01.109
meditative states regarding direct
02:00:01.119 --> 02:00:04.070
experience of the non-conceptual mind.
02:00:04.080 --> 02:00:06.310
Well, it'd be better to compare Zen
02:00:06.320 --> 02:00:09.430
teachings with like the atika waga. Just
02:00:09.440 --> 02:00:13.430
leave aside any kind of schematic
02:00:13.440 --> 02:00:16.470
list of different levels. I mean that in
02:00:16.480 --> 02:00:19.430
it that's already samsara. If you got
02:00:19.440 --> 02:00:21.030
levels
02:00:21.040 --> 02:00:25.030
different levels, it's it's samsaric.
02:00:25.040 --> 02:00:26.950
So I mean you want to get past all the
02:00:26.960 --> 02:00:30.550
the like division and systematization
02:00:30.560 --> 02:00:33.030
classification and just get straight to
02:00:33.040 --> 02:00:35.830
unadulterated reality.
02:00:35.840 --> 02:00:38.950
And the atakawaga really was oriented
02:00:38.960 --> 02:00:42.229
towards that. And
02:00:42.239 --> 02:00:45.990
Zen Buddhism also is in in its own way.
02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:48.310
It's it's a more Chinese kind of take,
02:00:48.320 --> 02:00:50.709
more intuitive
02:00:50.719 --> 02:00:55.910
um less like systematically mystical and
02:00:55.920 --> 02:00:57.910
more of a kind of intuitive wisdom
02:00:57.920 --> 02:01:01.990
approach to essentially the same thing.
02:01:02.000 --> 02:01:03.510
So,
02:01:03.520 --> 02:01:05.510
um, yeah, I really don't think that
02:01:05.520 --> 02:01:08.629
various form and formless genres really
02:01:08.639 --> 02:01:12.070
would would be the issue here seems to
02:01:12.080 --> 02:01:13.830
me.
02:01:13.840 --> 02:01:15.270
And I'm just going to move on to Cole's
02:01:15.280 --> 02:01:18.070
next question, which is a follow-up. He
02:01:18.080 --> 02:01:19.830
says, "A follow-up question would be
02:01:19.840 --> 02:01:21.830
regarding the intermingling of Buddhism
02:01:21.840 --> 02:01:24.709
and Daoism after Bodhi Dharma introduced
02:01:24.719 --> 02:01:28.149
Buddhism into China. I have seen in many
02:01:28.159 --> 02:01:31.189
writings how the Chan patriarchs seem to
02:01:31.199 --> 02:01:33.750
view samsara and nirvana as two aspects
02:01:33.760 --> 02:01:36.390
of the great void which seems counter to
02:01:36.400 --> 02:01:38.709
what the Buddha taught. Descriptions of
02:01:38.719 --> 02:01:41.669
nibbana by the Buddha seem to imply that
02:01:41.679 --> 02:01:45.030
there isn't a reality beyond that.
02:01:45.040 --> 02:01:47.430
Nibbana or some and samsara emerging
02:01:47.440 --> 02:01:51.030
from the void as a concept seems exactly
02:01:51.040 --> 02:01:53.510
the same as the dowist yinyang
02:01:53.520 --> 02:01:56.229
differentiation from wuji emptiness
02:01:56.239 --> 02:01:59.270
concept. Any thoughts on that? Yeah, I
02:01:59.280 --> 02:02:00.950
do not think that the original teachings
02:02:00.960 --> 02:02:02.870
of the Buddha were implying that there
02:02:02.880 --> 02:02:05.910
was anything beyond nibbana. That in my
02:02:05.920 --> 02:02:10.070
opinion nibbana is reality.
02:02:10.080 --> 02:02:12.390
You can quote me on that. Nibbana or
02:02:12.400 --> 02:02:15.270
Nirvana is reality
02:02:15.280 --> 02:02:22.070
and samsara is like a delusional take
02:02:22.080 --> 02:02:25.109
kind of fevered dream. It's perception
02:02:25.119 --> 02:02:27.669
essentially especially if you believe
02:02:27.679 --> 02:02:31.270
the perception and um are not detached
02:02:31.280 --> 02:02:32.950
from it that you're identifying with the
02:02:32.960 --> 02:02:37.750
perceptions.
02:02:37.760 --> 02:02:40.229
So let's see here. These these long
02:02:40.239 --> 02:02:42.870
questions kind of are a little bit
02:02:42.880 --> 02:02:44.950
difficult to to handle sometimes because
02:02:44.960 --> 02:02:46.870
I got to like search for the the
02:02:46.880 --> 02:02:49.350
question mark. And the question here is
02:02:49.360 --> 02:02:51.910
any thoughts on that.
02:02:51.920 --> 02:02:54.950
So yeah, I mean Indian philosophy
02:02:54.960 --> 02:02:57.510
especially they're always trying to up
02:02:57.520 --> 02:03:00.390
one. It's like oneupmanship, you know,
02:03:00.400 --> 02:03:03.350
like in the upupanachads or other kinds
02:03:03.360 --> 02:03:06.390
of just Indian philosophy in general.
02:03:06.400 --> 02:03:07.990
You've got some school saying this is
02:03:08.000 --> 02:03:09.750
the highest truth. This is ultimate
02:03:09.760 --> 02:03:11.750
reality. And then you've got some other
02:03:11.760 --> 02:03:15.109
school of philosophy saying nope you
02:03:15.119 --> 02:03:16.950
guys are just limited because we we
02:03:16.960 --> 02:03:19.189
found and we know of a reality that's
02:03:19.199 --> 02:03:21.510
even higher than that.
02:03:21.520 --> 02:03:24.390
So I mean a standard example a really
02:03:24.400 --> 02:03:28.629
obvious example is Brahma in Buddhism in
02:03:28.639 --> 02:03:30.709
in like
02:03:30.719 --> 02:03:32.310
vanta
02:03:32.320 --> 02:03:35.109
Brahma is the personification of
02:03:35.119 --> 02:03:37.589
ultimate reality. Brahman is essentially
02:03:37.599 --> 02:03:40.550
what Nirvana is to the Buddhists and
02:03:40.560 --> 02:03:44.070
Brahman is ultimate reality.
02:03:44.080 --> 02:03:45.189
Then the Buddhists come along and say,
02:03:45.199 --> 02:03:48.550
"Nope, that's Brahma is he's like a
02:03:48.560 --> 02:03:51.270
mediocre level deity. There's all these
02:03:51.280 --> 02:03:54.070
levels above Brahma and some of them are
02:03:54.080 --> 02:03:58.550
attainable only to Buddhists
02:03:58.560 --> 02:04:00.709
or it's like in in the Upanishads. I
02:04:00.719 --> 02:04:03.109
mean you've got Brahman is is considered
02:04:03.119 --> 02:04:04.390
to be the ultimate reality and then
02:04:04.400 --> 02:04:08.229
you've got like one or two other upanes
02:04:08.239 --> 02:04:10.470
that's referring to the fourth which is
02:04:10.480 --> 02:04:12.149
supposedly even higher than Brahman.
02:04:12.159 --> 02:04:14.229
It's like uh I can't remember what it's
02:04:14.239 --> 02:04:16.470
called up Brahman something like that
02:04:16.480 --> 02:04:19.030
you know it's like even higher than
02:04:19.040 --> 02:04:21.669
ultimate reality somehow or like some of
02:04:21.679 --> 02:04:24.310
these charlatans who have come come
02:04:24.320 --> 02:04:26.310
along over the centuries saying you know
02:04:26.320 --> 02:04:30.550
I'm even higher than a Buddha
02:04:30.560 --> 02:04:35.030
but I do think that nibbana I mean it
02:04:35.040 --> 02:04:36.550
has like two aspects you've got the
02:04:36.560 --> 02:04:38.310
ethical aspect which is this the
02:04:38.320 --> 02:04:40.790
attainment of enlightenment and then
02:04:40.800 --> 02:04:42.470
you've got more of the metaphysical
02:04:42.480 --> 02:04:46.709
aspect of just reality. You know what is
02:04:46.719 --> 02:04:48.709
there when you are no longer deluded?
02:04:48.719 --> 02:04:50.870
You're still conscious and you're not
02:04:50.880 --> 02:04:55.830
delusional anymore.
02:04:55.840 --> 02:04:58.070
So
02:04:58.080 --> 02:04:59.750
let's see what's the actual question. So
02:04:59.760 --> 02:05:01.589
it'd be kind of similar to Dao. You know
02:05:01.599 --> 02:05:04.229
there's that chapter that little part of
02:05:04.239 --> 02:05:06.070
the Dao teaching. You know from the Dao
02:05:06.080 --> 02:05:08.629
came the one from the one came the two
02:05:08.639 --> 02:05:11.589
from the two came the 10,000 things. But
02:05:11.599 --> 02:05:16.950
Dao is like you know the original source
02:05:16.960 --> 02:05:20.629
and nibbana especially from a Mahayana
02:05:20.639 --> 02:05:22.310
point of view. I mean Terravada really
02:05:22.320 --> 02:05:23.589
doesn't get that metaphysical with
02:05:23.599 --> 02:05:26.310
regard to this stuff that wisely I think
02:05:26.320 --> 02:05:28.629
the Buddha just did not want to reify
02:05:28.639 --> 02:05:31.030
the absolute. You know he talked about
02:05:31.040 --> 02:05:33.270
nibbana as little as possible. In the
02:05:33.280 --> 02:05:35.510
atawaga I can't remember the word
02:05:35.520 --> 02:05:38.229
nibbana actually appearing in the entire
02:05:38.239 --> 02:05:41.589
atawaga. There's like nibbiadi and
02:05:41.599 --> 02:05:44.390
nibbuti which are like verbs and and
02:05:44.400 --> 02:05:47.189
like a past participle blowing out and
02:05:47.199 --> 02:05:51.830
having blown out or being blown out.
02:05:51.840 --> 02:05:53.589
But that's that's that's emphasizing
02:05:53.599 --> 02:05:55.430
like the ethical like the practice
02:05:55.440 --> 02:05:58.070
aspect of attaining the goal and not
02:05:58.080 --> 02:06:00.790
trying to explain or describe the goal
02:06:00.800 --> 02:06:02.709
because it's just an exercise in
02:06:02.719 --> 02:06:05.350
futility.
02:06:05.360 --> 02:06:07.830
But it's it's hard to have a goal
02:06:07.840 --> 02:06:11.030
without thinking about the goal. And so
02:06:11.040 --> 02:06:12.709
especially
02:06:12.719 --> 02:06:15.030
um like some Mahayana philosophers
02:06:15.040 --> 02:06:17.189
really took the ball and ran with it and
02:06:17.199 --> 02:06:20.709
uh just really were trying to explain
02:06:20.719 --> 02:06:23.030
sometimes very sophisticated subtle
02:06:23.040 --> 02:06:25.589
philosophical language, you know, trying
02:06:25.599 --> 02:06:27.990
to kind of explain it, but ultimately
02:06:28.000 --> 02:06:32.149
it's it just doesn't work.
02:06:32.159 --> 02:06:34.310
So let's see what is descriptions of
02:06:34.320 --> 02:06:35.990
nibbana by the Buddha seem to imply that
02:06:36.000 --> 02:06:38.229
there isn't a reality beyond that. Yeah,
02:06:38.239 --> 02:06:40.629
it's like nibbana is the essence and
02:06:40.639 --> 02:06:43.990
samsara is just perceived forms made up
02:06:44.000 --> 02:06:46.390
of that essence but we're not aware of
02:06:46.400 --> 02:06:48.149
the essence because we're just stuck at
02:06:48.159 --> 02:06:51.669
the level of form.
02:06:51.679 --> 02:06:54.310
Okay, so let's see. Nibbana or samsara
02:06:54.320 --> 02:06:57.350
emerging from the void as a concept
02:06:57.360 --> 02:06:59.510
seems exactly the same as the dowist
02:06:59.520 --> 02:07:01.669
yin-yang differentiation from Wuji
02:07:01.679 --> 02:07:03.350
emptiness concept you or from the dao
02:07:03.360 --> 02:07:05.189
came the one from the one came the two
02:07:05.199 --> 02:07:07.189
from the two came the 10,000 things of
02:07:07.199 --> 02:07:10.069
samsara
02:07:10.079 --> 02:07:13.270
and I guess uh see the question is any
02:07:13.280 --> 02:07:16.550
thoughts on that and the answer is yeah
02:07:16.560 --> 02:07:19.270
which I I did uh I did kind of spew some
02:07:19.280 --> 02:07:21.990
of those thoughts just now and I'm just
02:07:22.000 --> 02:07:24.229
going to move on to Cyrus Frame's third
02:07:24.239 --> 02:07:27.669
question. And I commend all the people
02:07:27.679 --> 02:07:30.149
who have asked questions by not asking a
02:07:30.159 --> 02:07:32.390
transgressive fourth one except possibly
02:07:32.400 --> 02:07:34.470
the protoseud who just kind of had like
02:07:34.480 --> 02:07:37.589
a rhetorical question mark towards the
02:07:37.599 --> 02:07:39.350
beginning.
02:07:39.360 --> 02:07:41.750
So Cyrus Frame says I'm very interested
02:07:41.760 --> 02:07:45.350
in Wedina or feeling tone as an object
02:07:45.360 --> 02:07:47.430
of mindfulness particularly regarding
02:07:47.440 --> 02:07:50.310
the altering of one's perceptions. To
02:07:50.320 --> 02:07:53.109
me, perception would seem to sit between
02:07:53.119 --> 02:07:54.790
feeling and craving independent
02:07:54.800 --> 02:07:57.669
origination. There seems to be major
02:07:57.679 --> 02:08:01.109
implications here for arresting craving.
02:08:01.119 --> 02:08:02.790
Do you have any practical advice in
02:08:02.800 --> 02:08:04.229
regards to working with this in
02:08:04.239 --> 02:08:07.669
meditation? Well, I mean feeling like I
02:08:07.679 --> 02:08:11.430
like I said half hour ago maybe is
02:08:11.440 --> 02:08:12.870
strikes me as just another kind of
02:08:12.880 --> 02:08:16.069
perception. I think it wound up as one
02:08:16.079 --> 02:08:17.910
of the links in dependent core
02:08:17.920 --> 02:08:20.390
origination. dependent core rising from
02:08:20.400 --> 02:08:23.189
vaydana you've got it goes straight from
02:08:23.199 --> 02:08:26.310
feeling to craving and I agree I used as
02:08:26.320 --> 02:08:27.750
a monk I used to think there ought to be
02:08:27.760 --> 02:08:29.990
perception or something right in between
02:08:30.000 --> 02:08:32.310
feeling and craving especially back when
02:08:32.320 --> 02:08:36.149
I was interpreting feeling as just bare
02:08:36.159 --> 02:08:38.870
sensory data you know just bare
02:08:38.880 --> 02:08:41.669
sensation with with no perception added
02:08:41.679 --> 02:08:45.510
to it yet but if you look at like
02:08:45.520 --> 02:08:50.229
prototypes of the 12 link theory in that
02:08:50.239 --> 02:08:53.109
can be found in various places like um
02:08:53.119 --> 02:08:55.430
the saka panya suta of the diggan kaya
02:08:55.440 --> 02:08:59.350
has a kind of protoependent coising also
02:08:59.360 --> 02:09:01.830
the kalaha wiwara suta of the atakawaga
02:09:01.840 --> 02:09:05.189
of the sudinata has like this prototype
02:09:05.199 --> 02:09:09.350
of the 12 links theory and sometimes
02:09:09.360 --> 02:09:11.270
instead of waiting it just says pleasant
02:09:11.280 --> 02:09:14.790
and unpleasant. So craving comes from
02:09:14.800 --> 02:09:17.270
pleasant and unpleasant. And according
02:09:17.280 --> 02:09:19.430
to Buddhist philosophy, you've got
02:09:19.440 --> 02:09:20.950
pleasant feeling and unpleasant feeling.
02:09:20.960 --> 02:09:22.790
So that's probably the meaning of
02:09:22.800 --> 02:09:25.669
feeling in the the 12 links of dependent
02:09:25.679 --> 02:09:27.830
core rising in the official formula. It
02:09:27.840 --> 02:09:30.470
just means like pleasure and pain or
02:09:30.480 --> 02:09:32.629
pleasantness and unpleasantness.
02:09:32.639 --> 02:09:35.270
And that leads to craving because you've
02:09:35.280 --> 02:09:37.430
got like this preference. I want I want
02:09:37.440 --> 02:09:38.950
the pleasant and I don't want the
02:09:38.960 --> 02:09:41.430
unpleasant. And so I start like
02:09:41.440 --> 02:09:45.589
struggling with the way things are.
02:09:45.599 --> 02:09:47.910
And that that's [ __ ] [ __ ] up is what
02:09:47.920 --> 02:09:50.790
that does.
02:09:50.800 --> 02:09:53.830
So yeah, I think that is why it goes
02:09:53.840 --> 02:09:57.109
directly from feeling to craving.
02:09:57.119 --> 02:09:58.629
Especially if you look at some of the
02:09:58.639 --> 02:10:00.950
prototypes that can be found in the text
02:10:00.960 --> 02:10:03.430
where instead of feeling it has pleasant
02:10:03.440 --> 02:10:06.709
unpleasant or loved and unloved and
02:10:06.719 --> 02:10:08.629
that's what leads to the craving and the
02:10:08.639 --> 02:10:11.589
suffering.
02:10:11.599 --> 02:10:14.709
So it was it's kind of a a manner of
02:10:14.719 --> 02:10:17.510
speaking that the meaning of which kind
02:10:17.520 --> 02:10:20.069
of got lost to a lot of dogmatic
02:10:20.079 --> 02:10:23.430
Buddhist philosophical types.
02:10:23.440 --> 02:10:27.270
So yeah, if perception would seem to to
02:10:27.280 --> 02:10:30.709
sit between feeling and craving um if
02:10:30.719 --> 02:10:33.430
you consider feeling to just be like
02:10:33.440 --> 02:10:37.109
bare bare sensual data, unprocessed c
02:10:37.119 --> 02:10:39.750
sensory data,
02:10:39.760 --> 02:10:41.910
but if feeling is like pleasure and
02:10:41.920 --> 02:10:44.550
pain, pleasantness and unpleasantness,
02:10:44.560 --> 02:10:46.870
then you can see more of an obvious
02:10:46.880 --> 02:10:49.030
connection between that and subsequent
02:10:49.040 --> 02:10:52.790
subsequent craving.
02:10:52.800 --> 02:10:55.750
So let's see here.
02:10:55.760 --> 02:10:57.830
There seems to be a major implications
02:10:57.840 --> 02:11:00.790
here for arresting craving. Do you have
02:11:00.800 --> 02:11:02.390
any practical advice in regards to
02:11:02.400 --> 02:11:04.870
working with this in meditation? Well, I
02:11:04.880 --> 02:11:07.350
mean the way you do it is mainly through
02:11:07.360 --> 02:11:09.270
mindfulness. Like if you're feeling
02:11:09.280 --> 02:11:12.229
pleasure and pain, I mean you you
02:11:12.239 --> 02:11:14.390
observe the pleasure and pain with
02:11:14.400 --> 02:11:16.629
equinimity. You like philosophical
02:11:16.639 --> 02:11:19.109
attachment or the detachment that comes
02:11:19.119 --> 02:11:22.310
from mindfulness. Mindful observation.
02:11:22.320 --> 02:11:25.109
So you feel pain in your arm or let's
02:11:25.119 --> 02:11:26.629
say you're meditating. So you feel pain
02:11:26.639 --> 02:11:31.589
in your knee. Well, I mean the natural
02:11:31.599 --> 02:11:34.870
response to pain is aversion. You know,
02:11:34.880 --> 02:11:36.950
you want to change position or you're
02:11:36.960 --> 02:11:38.950
just like not liking that and being
02:11:38.960 --> 02:11:40.950
unhappy because you want the pain to
02:11:40.960 --> 02:11:43.910
stop. The pain in your knee is not the
02:11:43.920 --> 02:11:47.350
same as suffering.
02:11:47.360 --> 02:11:49.510
Pain and suffering are not the same. The
02:11:49.520 --> 02:11:52.870
suffering comes from desiring or craving
02:11:52.880 --> 02:11:56.470
that pain to be otherwise, wanting it to
02:11:56.480 --> 02:11:58.629
stop.
02:11:58.639 --> 02:12:00.390
So the pain in your knee is just sort of
02:12:00.400 --> 02:12:02.709
like a red light that instinctively or
02:12:02.719 --> 02:12:06.149
reflexively we want to stop. We want to
02:12:06.159 --> 02:12:08.229
push it away. But it's not exactly the
02:12:08.239 --> 02:12:11.990
same. Pain in your knee is just like
02:12:12.000 --> 02:12:15.030
it's it's a feeling that instinctively
02:12:15.040 --> 02:12:17.669
we automatically have a version for.
02:12:17.679 --> 02:12:19.830
Through mindful observance and
02:12:19.840 --> 02:12:23.589
equinimity, you can sort of cause a
02:12:23.599 --> 02:12:27.350
detachment between the the stimulus and
02:12:27.360 --> 02:12:30.629
the automatic knee-jerk response
02:12:30.639 --> 02:12:32.950
that through like intensive mindfulness.
02:12:32.960 --> 02:12:35.189
You just observe as it as it truly is.
02:12:35.199 --> 02:12:38.069
You just like observe that pain. You
02:12:38.079 --> 02:12:39.750
know, what does it feel like? You do an
02:12:39.760 --> 02:12:41.510
intensive meditation retreat where
02:12:41.520 --> 02:12:43.589
you're all of a sudden, you know,
02:12:43.599 --> 02:12:45.350
sitting, walking, sitting, walking, an
02:12:45.360 --> 02:12:47.109
hour, you know, hour sitting, hour
02:12:47.119 --> 02:12:49.270
walking, hour sitting, hour walking all
02:12:49.280 --> 02:12:51.589
day long. You're going to have all kinds
02:12:51.599 --> 02:12:54.149
of just excruciating pains. Your knee,
02:12:54.159 --> 02:12:56.950
your ankle, like a certain tiny muscle
02:12:56.960 --> 02:12:59.990
in your back that only anatomists would
02:13:00.000 --> 02:13:02.229
know the name of. And it's it's just
02:13:02.239 --> 02:13:04.550
like this searing, jabbing pain that
02:13:04.560 --> 02:13:06.470
you're going through, maybe for a few
02:13:06.480 --> 02:13:09.030
days until your your muscle system
02:13:09.040 --> 02:13:12.069
restructures enough to accommodate you
02:13:12.079 --> 02:13:13.910
sitting like straight up and down for
02:13:13.920 --> 02:13:15.830
hours every day, which you usually don't
02:13:15.840 --> 02:13:18.709
do. So you got like the the dull
02:13:18.719 --> 02:13:21.109
throbbing pain. You've got the sharp
02:13:21.119 --> 02:13:23.109
jabbing pain. You've got like the
02:13:23.119 --> 02:13:25.910
twinging pulsing pain. All these
02:13:25.920 --> 02:13:27.910
different kinds of pain and you can just
02:13:27.920 --> 02:13:29.990
observe them like an ichthyologist
02:13:30.000 --> 02:13:32.950
observes a dead fish
02:13:32.960 --> 02:13:35.589
ideally.
02:13:35.599 --> 02:13:37.270
And then when you get good at that, I
02:13:37.280 --> 02:13:39.030
mean when you're doing that as just a
02:13:39.040 --> 02:13:41.350
full-time practice as like a monk,
02:13:41.360 --> 02:13:42.870
you're you're just living in a cave.
02:13:42.880 --> 02:13:45.270
You've just completely simplified your
02:13:45.280 --> 02:13:47.510
life to the extent where you can really
02:13:47.520 --> 02:13:50.870
be paying more attention to to these
02:13:50.880 --> 02:13:53.350
just minute things that are happening
02:13:53.360 --> 02:13:55.430
instead of having to like pay bills and
02:13:55.440 --> 02:13:57.270
deal with people demanding your
02:13:57.280 --> 02:13:59.510
attention and all that.
02:13:59.520 --> 02:14:01.430
You just become a professional meditator
02:14:01.440 --> 02:14:02.709
even when you're not sitting
02:14:02.719 --> 02:14:04.550
cross-legged with your eyes closed. You
02:14:04.560 --> 02:14:05.589
know, when you're reaching for
02:14:05.599 --> 02:14:07.189
something, you're aware of the intention
02:14:07.199 --> 02:14:09.669
to reach and like the the oily feeling
02:14:09.679 --> 02:14:11.669
in the joints and the feelings of your
02:14:11.679 --> 02:14:13.910
muscles and, you know, the con the
02:14:13.920 --> 02:14:15.830
pressure of your fingers against what it
02:14:15.840 --> 02:14:18.310
is and you know, just the the urge to
02:14:18.320 --> 02:14:20.149
like close your fingers to pick it up.
02:14:20.159 --> 02:14:22.790
And it's all these all this stuff is
02:14:22.800 --> 02:14:25.510
going on. And when you're aware of that,
02:14:25.520 --> 02:14:27.910
it makes it a lot easier to detach
02:14:27.920 --> 02:14:29.109
because you're not really identifying
02:14:29.119 --> 02:14:31.990
with. That's I mean, it's just stuff
02:14:32.000 --> 02:14:33.350
that's happening that you're just
02:14:33.360 --> 02:14:35.830
observing without clinging to it or
02:14:35.840 --> 02:14:37.750
identifying with it or forming any kind
02:14:37.760 --> 02:14:40.629
of commentarial interpretation of it.
02:14:40.639 --> 02:14:43.030
It's just nature taking its course and
02:14:43.040 --> 02:14:46.069
you are just the observer.
02:14:46.079 --> 02:14:47.910
And even if you have to make a decision,
02:14:47.920 --> 02:14:50.069
you still observe the decision being
02:14:50.079 --> 02:14:52.550
made.
02:14:52.560 --> 02:14:54.229
And sometimes that decision may be
02:14:54.239 --> 02:14:56.790
aversion for pain or attraction to
02:14:56.800 --> 02:14:59.910
pleasure. You just observe that and do
02:14:59.920 --> 02:15:04.310
not react.
02:15:04.320 --> 02:15:07.030
So I mean that's going with dependent
02:15:07.040 --> 02:15:09.430
core origination the the 12 links you
02:15:09.440 --> 02:15:11.589
know it's pleasant pleasure and pain
02:15:11.599 --> 02:15:13.830
lead to craving. I mean that's the main
02:15:13.840 --> 02:15:15.990
interpretation of it. seems to me that
02:15:16.000 --> 02:15:18.629
it's not really referring to um let's
02:15:18.639 --> 02:15:21.510
see feeling tone unless it's in the
02:15:21.520 --> 02:15:23.430
sense of positive feeling tone and
02:15:23.440 --> 02:15:25.350
negative feeling tone that you're going
02:15:25.360 --> 02:15:28.229
to have attraction or aversion for and
02:15:28.239 --> 02:15:31.430
and like consequent cravings one way or
02:15:31.440 --> 02:15:33.990
the other.
02:15:34.000 --> 02:15:37.030
Uh but um interested in waiting or
02:15:37.040 --> 02:15:38.390
feeling tone as an object of
02:15:38.400 --> 02:15:39.910
mindfulness.
02:15:39.920 --> 02:15:41.430
Um yeah I mean whatever it is you're
02:15:41.440 --> 02:15:44.149
feeling like um the way I was doing
02:15:44.159 --> 02:15:46.149
anapana meditation mindfulness of
02:15:46.159 --> 02:15:48.470
breathing as a monk was essentially kind
02:15:48.480 --> 02:15:50.950
of waiting nanupasa where it's just the
02:15:50.960 --> 02:15:53.910
the sensation of touch at the nostrils
02:15:53.920 --> 02:15:58.310
or upper lip
02:15:58.320 --> 02:16:00.069
but it will get you a long ways. It is a
02:16:00.079 --> 02:16:03.350
relatively advanced practice way. It's
02:16:03.360 --> 02:16:05.350
one of my favorites of like the four sip
02:16:05.360 --> 02:16:07.109
patanas
02:16:07.119 --> 02:16:09.189
that really I'm skeptical of even the
02:16:09.199 --> 02:16:11.189
existence of mindfulness of the body
02:16:11.199 --> 02:16:12.629
because the only way you're aware of the
02:16:12.639 --> 02:16:15.669
body is through feeling and mental
02:16:15.679 --> 02:16:19.669
states.
02:16:19.679 --> 02:16:22.149
So I guess I answered that question. I
02:16:22.159 --> 02:16:24.709
hope I did. And so now for something
02:16:24.719 --> 02:16:26.950
completely different.
02:16:26.960 --> 02:16:31.430
Raja Kumar says, "Why is Georgiani so
02:16:31.440 --> 02:16:33.750
pro-Israel?"
02:16:33.760 --> 02:16:35.110
That's just right out of left field,
02:16:35.120 --> 02:16:38.469
isn't it? So Jason Georgiani,
02:16:38.479 --> 02:16:41.509
he's some Iranian guy who lives in the
02:16:41.519 --> 02:16:44.870
West and some of the members of the
02:16:44.880 --> 02:16:47.030
Discord server
02:16:47.040 --> 02:16:49.429
are like watch his videos all the time.
02:16:49.439 --> 02:16:52.230
I've never seen a single Jason Georg
02:16:52.240 --> 02:16:54.549
Johnny video. I don't even know if
02:16:54.559 --> 02:16:56.230
that's the correct pronunciation of his
02:16:56.240 --> 02:16:57.830
name,
02:16:57.840 --> 02:16:59.910
but apparently Georgian Johnny is
02:16:59.920 --> 02:17:01.990
pro-Israel at present, even though he's
02:17:02.000 --> 02:17:05.509
Iranian because apparently he's like a
02:17:05.519 --> 02:17:08.549
secular Iranian living in the West. He's
02:17:08.559 --> 02:17:11.750
not a fundamentalist Shiite Muslim. And
02:17:11.760 --> 02:17:14.469
so he probably is in favor of the idea
02:17:14.479 --> 02:17:18.150
of Israel just bombing the current
02:17:18.160 --> 02:17:20.150
Ayatollah regime of Iran out of
02:17:20.160 --> 02:17:22.150
existence so that it can go back to a
02:17:22.160 --> 02:17:24.790
more secular culture like existed under
02:17:24.800 --> 02:17:29.110
the sha. So I assume Jason Georgiani is
02:17:29.120 --> 02:17:31.830
pro-Israel because the enemy of my enemy
02:17:31.840 --> 02:17:34.389
is my friend.
02:17:34.399 --> 02:17:36.230
So, Georgian Johnny probably does not
02:17:36.240 --> 02:17:38.389
like the Ayatollas, you know, the
02:17:38.399 --> 02:17:40.389
fundamentalist Shiite government of
02:17:40.399 --> 02:17:43.509
Iran. And since Israel is the enemy of
02:17:43.519 --> 02:17:47.349
Iran, Israel is Georgiani's friend. And
02:17:47.359 --> 02:17:50.230
then uh on Twitter, he was talking about
02:17:50.240 --> 02:17:52.950
or ex Georgian Georgiani was talking
02:17:52.960 --> 02:17:55.669
about how Iran and Israel could become
02:17:55.679 --> 02:17:59.349
like powerful allies if the current
02:17:59.359 --> 02:18:01.990
regime can be toppled and you know,
02:18:02.000 --> 02:18:03.589
etc., etc. We don't need to get into all
02:18:03.599 --> 02:18:05.509
the political stuff, but just that would
02:18:05.519 --> 02:18:08.309
be my best guess as to why Georgiani,
02:18:08.319 --> 02:18:11.030
someone that I know very little about,
02:18:11.040 --> 02:18:13.830
is pro-Israel because he is a secular
02:18:13.840 --> 02:18:19.429
Iranian who is against the Ayatollah le
02:18:19.439 --> 02:18:23.990
regime in current Iran.
02:18:24.000 --> 02:18:25.110
And I'm just going to move on to the
02:18:25.120 --> 02:18:26.549
next question. That's what I'm going to
02:18:26.559 --> 02:18:28.549
do. And we are kind of getting down
02:18:28.559 --> 02:18:31.030
towards the bottom, so it'll be less
02:18:31.040 --> 02:18:33.190
than three hours.
02:18:33.200 --> 02:18:35.349
I'm being a little more long- winded, a
02:18:35.359 --> 02:18:40.070
little more verbose than usual, I think.
02:18:40.080 --> 02:18:41.830
Robert says, "What is your opinion of
02:18:41.840 --> 02:18:44.790
using a mala for spiritual practice?
02:18:44.800 --> 02:18:46.629
Have you ever found it useful?" And a
02:18:46.639 --> 02:18:48.870
mala is like the Buddhist equivalent or
02:18:48.880 --> 02:18:52.549
the Hindu equivalent of a rosary. You
02:18:52.559 --> 02:18:55.830
know, it's like a a string of beads, a
02:18:55.840 --> 02:18:59.030
garland of beads with 108 beads,
02:18:59.040 --> 02:19:01.030
including like the big the big one. So
02:19:01.040 --> 02:19:02.469
that when you go all the way through,
02:19:02.479 --> 02:19:03.669
you hit the big one, you know you've
02:19:03.679 --> 02:19:07.030
done the full 108.
02:19:07.040 --> 02:19:09.910
And it's very commonly used among
02:19:09.920 --> 02:19:11.830
Burmese lay people especially or Burmese
02:19:11.840 --> 02:19:13.270
monks too. Sometimes you'll just see an
02:19:13.280 --> 02:19:15.190
old monk sitting there with his mala,
02:19:15.200 --> 02:19:17.349
you know, he'll be just sitting there
02:19:17.359 --> 02:19:23.190
fingering the mala. And I tried it once.
02:19:23.200 --> 02:19:27.030
Um, and mainly it was like I was
02:19:27.040 --> 02:19:28.790
experimenting with seeing if it would be
02:19:28.800 --> 02:19:32.389
useful for combating sleepiness because
02:19:32.399 --> 02:19:35.190
if you have to keep your thumb moving
02:19:35.200 --> 02:19:37.349
then that in itself is going to keep you
02:19:37.359 --> 02:19:39.589
awake because you it'd be difficult to
02:19:39.599 --> 02:19:42.469
sleep with your thumb still moving.
02:19:42.479 --> 02:19:44.389
But it just it never really appealed to
02:19:44.399 --> 02:19:46.389
me too much. It's it was just too busy
02:19:46.399 --> 02:19:49.750
of a meditation technique that um as a
02:19:49.760 --> 02:19:51.910
monk I preferred more subtle kinds of
02:19:51.920 --> 02:19:54.070
meditation where your mind is doing as
02:19:54.080 --> 02:19:56.389
little as possible you know as still and
02:19:56.399 --> 02:20:00.469
silent as possible and using a mala is
02:20:00.479 --> 02:20:02.790
it's more suitable for lay people I
02:20:02.800 --> 02:20:04.550
think or sort of beginning level
02:20:04.560 --> 02:20:06.309
meditation.
02:20:06.319 --> 02:20:08.550
It could be that there's some advanced
02:20:08.560 --> 02:20:10.389
mala meditation technique but I don't
02:20:10.399 --> 02:20:13.830
know what it would be. So, personally, I
02:20:13.840 --> 02:20:15.750
never really found it useful, although a
02:20:15.760 --> 02:20:17.510
lot of people do. So, I'm not going to
02:20:17.520 --> 02:20:21.110
badmouth Mollas here.
02:20:21.120 --> 02:20:22.150
And I'm just going to move on to
02:20:22.160 --> 02:20:23.830
Robert's next question. I suppose I
02:20:23.840 --> 02:20:27.110
should step it up a little bit and not
02:20:27.120 --> 02:20:29.590
just digress wildly all over the place
02:20:29.600 --> 02:20:32.630
with every question. So, Robert's second
02:20:32.640 --> 02:20:34.870
question is, do you have any opinions on
02:20:34.880 --> 02:20:38.150
Tibetan Buddhism, specifically the Kagu
02:20:38.160 --> 02:20:40.790
school? Do you think it is a profound
02:20:40.800 --> 02:20:42.309
system that can lead one to ultimate
02:20:42.319 --> 02:20:43.990
reality? Well, I'm no authority on
02:20:44.000 --> 02:20:45.590
Tibetan Buddhism and I'm not exactly
02:20:45.600 --> 02:20:48.790
sure what the Kaguyu school even is.
02:20:48.800 --> 02:20:50.630
Those
02:20:50.640 --> 02:20:52.309
I mean that wouldn't apply to red hats
02:20:52.319 --> 02:20:54.309
or yellow hats or anything like that. I
02:20:54.319 --> 02:20:55.990
assume,
02:20:56.000 --> 02:20:59.030
but I mean this question reminds me of
02:20:59.040 --> 02:21:01.270
uh a cartoon I saw in a Buddhist
02:21:01.280 --> 02:21:05.910
magazine many years ago and it had three
02:21:05.920 --> 02:21:09.270
meditators. It was a a terra weasna
02:21:09.280 --> 02:21:11.910
meditator, a Zen meditator, and a
02:21:11.920 --> 02:21:15.349
Tibetan meditator. And the terravada
02:21:15.359 --> 02:21:19.110
weasna meditator of course is like a
02:21:19.120 --> 02:21:21.830
blonde white woman with like a shawl.
02:21:21.840 --> 02:21:24.150
She's sitting in it's like Berry,
02:21:24.160 --> 02:21:26.230
Massachusetts or something. And she just
02:21:26.240 --> 02:21:28.389
has like this thought balloon and like
02:21:28.399 --> 02:21:30.309
an empty thought. She's sitting there in
02:21:30.319 --> 02:21:32.630
meditation with the standard empty
02:21:32.640 --> 02:21:34.870
thought balloon. Then next to her, you
02:21:34.880 --> 02:21:37.910
got the Zen meditator who is wearing
02:21:37.920 --> 02:21:40.790
like the gray Zen pajamas. And he's got
02:21:40.800 --> 02:21:42.469
a thought balloon, too. But it's it's
02:21:42.479 --> 02:21:44.630
drawn sort of like the Zen circles like
02:21:44.640 --> 02:21:47.990
paint like a brush brush and ink like
02:21:48.000 --> 02:21:50.389
India ink or China ink, I guess. And so
02:21:50.399 --> 02:21:54.469
you got like the the the calligraphic
02:21:54.479 --> 02:21:56.630
thought balloon coming out and it also
02:21:56.640 --> 02:21:59.750
is empty. And then finally, you've got
02:21:59.760 --> 02:22:01.910
the Tibetan meditator who's like a guy
02:22:01.920 --> 02:22:04.469
in a business suit with like a briefcase
02:22:04.479 --> 02:22:06.309
sitting next to him. And he's doing
02:22:06.319 --> 02:22:09.030
Tibetan meditation. And it's all these
02:22:09.040 --> 02:22:11.990
it's sort of like paisley type curly ue
02:22:12.000 --> 02:22:13.830
shaped thought balloon. You know, first
02:22:13.840 --> 02:22:15.270
you got the little bubbles that lead up
02:22:15.280 --> 02:22:16.790
to the big balloon. You know, it's all
02:22:16.800 --> 02:22:18.630
like these paisley curly cue kind of
02:22:18.640 --> 02:22:20.630
things. And then the main thought
02:22:20.640 --> 02:22:23.429
balloon has all this, you know, arabes
02:22:23.439 --> 02:22:25.349
all around it, but it also in the middle
02:22:25.359 --> 02:22:27.510
is empty.
02:22:27.520 --> 02:22:29.349
So it's just three empty thought
02:22:29.359 --> 02:22:31.990
balloons of three meditators in three
02:22:32.000 --> 02:22:34.710
different traditions um all doing
02:22:34.720 --> 02:22:37.190
essentially the same kind of no
02:22:37.200 --> 02:22:39.429
thinking.
02:22:39.439 --> 02:22:41.830
So Tibetan Buddhism definitely you know
02:22:41.840 --> 02:22:44.309
like Zogchen for example you know it's
02:22:44.319 --> 02:22:46.150
it's a profound meditation technique
02:22:46.160 --> 02:22:50.630
that leads you to like going beyond
02:22:50.640 --> 02:22:54.550
perception not relying on perception.
02:22:54.560 --> 02:22:57.830
That's that's mainly what Buddhism or
02:22:57.840 --> 02:22:59.590
it's mainly what meditation is supposed
02:22:59.600 --> 02:23:01.110
to do, at least from a Buddhist point of
02:23:01.120 --> 02:23:04.150
view in my opinion, is you're calming
02:23:04.160 --> 02:23:06.870
the waves of perception
02:23:06.880 --> 02:23:09.270
until you can see through the waves of
02:23:09.280 --> 02:23:11.270
perception, not be distracted by them
02:23:11.280 --> 02:23:12.870
anymore. You know, it's like
02:23:12.880 --> 02:23:16.790
consciousness is water and perception is
02:23:16.800 --> 02:23:18.630
the waves. Mental states are the waves
02:23:18.640 --> 02:23:20.469
on the surface of the water. And most
02:23:20.479 --> 02:23:22.230
people, unenlightened people are just
02:23:22.240 --> 02:23:24.150
stuck at the level of waves, the level
02:23:24.160 --> 02:23:27.429
of form. They have no concept at all of
02:23:27.439 --> 02:23:30.070
just water. You know, it's just I like
02:23:30.080 --> 02:23:31.910
this wave, I don't like that wave. This
02:23:31.920 --> 02:23:33.830
wave is better than the other wave over
02:23:33.840 --> 02:23:36.070
there. You know, it's just all waves.
02:23:36.080 --> 02:23:38.070
It's all mental states. And the
02:23:38.080 --> 02:23:40.150
underlying consciousness, the substance,
02:23:40.160 --> 02:23:41.990
the essence of it all, they have no
02:23:42.000 --> 02:23:44.070
concept of it any more than a fish has a
02:23:44.080 --> 02:23:46.790
concept that it's wet.
02:23:46.800 --> 02:23:49.429
So what you do in meditation is you you
02:23:49.439 --> 02:23:51.750
calm the waves. You try to get as close
02:23:51.760 --> 02:23:54.309
to a flat calm as you can so that
02:23:54.319 --> 02:23:56.710
there's no waves to distract you and all
02:23:56.720 --> 02:23:59.030
there is left to be aware of is just the
02:23:59.040 --> 02:24:01.510
water itself.
02:24:01.520 --> 02:24:03.510
And then if you're really good then
02:24:03.520 --> 02:24:05.750
after the waves come back you can still
02:24:05.760 --> 02:24:10.230
just be operating at the level of water.
02:24:10.240 --> 02:24:13.110
So that's getting back to sea cpad zed's
02:24:13.120 --> 02:24:15.110
question of the enlightened being you
02:24:15.120 --> 02:24:17.349
know you don't have to eliminate the
02:24:17.359 --> 02:24:19.750
form of desire to be enlightened it's
02:24:19.760 --> 02:24:22.389
just that the form is just irrelevant at
02:24:22.399 --> 02:24:26.309
that point.
02:24:26.319 --> 02:24:29.510
So if Tibetan Buddhism leads to being
02:24:29.520 --> 02:24:31.990
wide awake and not thinking anything in
02:24:32.000 --> 02:24:34.630
its meditation and then even better yet
02:24:34.640 --> 02:24:36.070
after you start thinking and making
02:24:36.080 --> 02:24:38.389
noise again that you're still at that
02:24:38.399 --> 02:24:42.550
same kind of seeing through it all then
02:24:42.560 --> 02:24:44.389
it's fine. Although I've never really
02:24:44.399 --> 02:24:47.510
practiced Tibetan Buddhism to speak of
02:24:47.520 --> 02:24:49.990
and I can't really vouch for how far it
02:24:50.000 --> 02:24:51.590
gets you, but I would assume there have
02:24:51.600 --> 02:24:56.309
been enlightened Tibetan Buddhists.
02:24:56.319 --> 02:24:58.710
So I think it's possible that it is a
02:24:58.720 --> 02:25:00.550
profound system that possibly can lead
02:25:00.560 --> 02:25:02.469
one to ultimate reality. Like uh the
02:25:02.479 --> 02:25:04.309
Tibetan book of the great liberation,
02:25:04.319 --> 02:25:06.150
also known as the yoga of seeing the
02:25:06.160 --> 02:25:08.150
mind in its nakedness, is one of the
02:25:08.160 --> 02:25:09.910
most profound Buddhist texts I've ever
02:25:09.920 --> 02:25:13.670
read. Even though it's it's Tibetan,
02:25:13.680 --> 02:25:16.790
it's attributed to Padma Sambava, but
02:25:16.800 --> 02:25:18.870
whether it really was composed by Padma
02:25:18.880 --> 02:25:21.750
Sambava or not, I don't know.
02:25:21.760 --> 02:25:22.710
And I'm just going to move on to
02:25:22.720 --> 02:25:25.590
Robert's next question.
02:25:25.600 --> 02:25:28.309
He says, "A philosopher named Bernardo
02:25:28.319 --> 02:25:31.830
Castrop has proposed a version of
02:25:31.840 --> 02:25:35.670
idealism, analytic idealism, where there
02:25:35.680 --> 02:25:38.469
is only one mind at large, and we are
02:25:38.479 --> 02:25:41.110
basically dissociations of the mind at
02:25:41.120 --> 02:25:43.910
large. Everything is fundamentally mind,
02:25:43.920 --> 02:25:46.710
but it is not a subjective idealism like
02:25:46.720 --> 02:25:49.110
Barkley, which I have heard you critique
02:25:49.120 --> 02:25:51.590
before. What are your opinions on this?"
02:25:51.600 --> 02:25:52.950
Yeah, I think it would probably come
02:25:52.960 --> 02:25:55.429
closer than Barkley to the truth. is it
02:25:55.439 --> 02:25:59.030
it's kind of like my theory my uh simile
02:25:59.040 --> 02:26:01.830
of the block of marble which I mean I'
02:26:01.840 --> 02:26:04.309
I've beaten this one to death where
02:26:04.319 --> 02:26:06.550
you've got this block of marble and
02:26:06.560 --> 02:26:09.190
contained within that block of marble
02:26:09.200 --> 02:26:12.630
are every possible statue and some of
02:26:12.640 --> 02:26:15.510
those statues are so intricate that they
02:26:15.520 --> 02:26:18.070
become self-referential and start
02:26:18.080 --> 02:26:19.670
thinking that they are separate from
02:26:19.680 --> 02:26:21.110
everything else. they start thinking
02:26:21.120 --> 02:26:23.190
that they're real even though they're
02:26:23.200 --> 02:26:26.070
just virtually contained in that block
02:26:26.080 --> 02:26:28.150
of marble, but the entire statue is
02:26:28.160 --> 02:26:31.510
already in there. It's really in there
02:26:31.520 --> 02:26:33.990
at least in conditional or potential or
02:26:34.000 --> 02:26:36.070
virtual form.
02:26:36.080 --> 02:26:38.309
So I mean if you want to call the block
02:26:38.319 --> 02:26:41.349
of marble like pure like infinite
02:26:41.359 --> 02:26:44.469
formless consciousness
02:26:44.479 --> 02:26:48.150
you know it's kind of what uh vdanta
02:26:48.160 --> 02:26:51.990
teaches even some obscure Buddhist texts
02:26:52.000 --> 02:26:55.110
like even terra or pre-terra Buddhist
02:26:55.120 --> 02:26:56.630
texts and then they hint at that
02:26:56.640 --> 02:26:58.389
sometimes
02:26:58.399 --> 02:27:00.790
then sure you've got infinite formless
02:27:00.800 --> 02:27:03.270
consciousness which contains within it
02:27:03.280 --> 02:27:05.510
every possible form of consciousness.
02:27:05.520 --> 02:27:07.510
because it's like statues inside this
02:27:07.520 --> 02:27:10.870
uncarved block. And some of those forms
02:27:10.880 --> 02:27:13.030
of consciousness are recursive,
02:27:13.040 --> 02:27:14.630
self-referential,
02:27:14.640 --> 02:27:16.790
and they just become delusional and just
02:27:16.800 --> 02:27:19.429
kind of dissociate
02:27:19.439 --> 02:27:20.870
from the rest of the infinite
02:27:20.880 --> 02:27:24.790
consciousness. So yeah, what my
02:27:24.800 --> 02:27:26.710
understanding of the case is not so
02:27:26.720 --> 02:27:28.950
different from what Bernardo Castro
02:27:28.960 --> 02:27:31.190
seems to think.
02:27:31.200 --> 02:27:33.270
But that's one way of looking at it. But
02:27:33.280 --> 02:27:36.630
any kind of model is ultimately invalid
02:27:36.640 --> 02:27:38.469
because it's all perception in samsara.
02:27:38.479 --> 02:27:42.070
You're never going to use ideas
02:27:42.080 --> 02:27:45.590
to get past samsara into reality because
02:27:45.600 --> 02:27:47.910
any kind of idea is of necessity
02:27:47.920 --> 02:27:51.110
samsaric.
02:27:51.120 --> 02:27:53.429
There is no highest truth that can be
02:27:53.439 --> 02:27:55.270
told. You know the tr the name that can
02:27:55.280 --> 02:27:59.429
be named is not the eternal name.
02:27:59.439 --> 02:28:00.630
And I'm just going to move on to the
02:28:00.640 --> 02:28:04.150
next question. This is from PSA.
02:28:04.160 --> 02:28:06.230
And PSA says, "What do you think of the
02:28:06.240 --> 02:28:10.550
monks marching for peace to Washington?"
02:28:10.560 --> 02:28:12.389
And yeah, I got asked this one like a
02:28:12.399 --> 02:28:13.750
month or so ago back when they were
02:28:13.760 --> 02:28:15.670
actually marching. To some degree, it's
02:28:15.680 --> 02:28:17.830
kind of a publicity stunt. I think it's
02:28:17.840 --> 02:28:20.550
harmless. It's just a way of drawing
02:28:20.560 --> 02:28:23.830
attention to monks walking for peace,
02:28:23.840 --> 02:28:26.469
which is kind of a nice idea. I don't
02:28:26.479 --> 02:28:29.030
think it ended any wars. I don't think
02:28:29.040 --> 02:28:30.710
it necessarily made the world more
02:28:30.720 --> 02:28:33.830
peaceful, but I mean it's monks making a
02:28:33.840 --> 02:28:35.910
statement of, you know, we're peaceful
02:28:35.920 --> 02:28:40.070
monks. We're in favor of peace. Um, so
02:28:40.080 --> 02:28:42.230
this is what we're doing.
02:28:42.240 --> 02:28:44.469
And it got like a positive response. At
02:28:44.479 --> 02:28:46.950
least people got to see monks walking
02:28:46.960 --> 02:28:49.429
around. I mean, one of the 38 blessings
02:28:49.439 --> 02:28:51.429
of the Mongalas Suta is seeing
02:28:51.439 --> 02:28:53.670
renuncience. And that was like the the
02:28:53.680 --> 02:28:57.429
the thing that uh Prince Sedata Godma
02:28:57.439 --> 02:28:59.510
saw that inspired him to renounce the
02:28:59.520 --> 02:29:01.270
world and eventually become the Buddhas.
02:29:01.280 --> 02:29:04.870
He saw a wandering holy man.
02:29:04.880 --> 02:29:08.710
So I mean it's it's a blessing to people
02:29:08.720 --> 02:29:11.110
so long as they're receptive to it to
02:29:11.120 --> 02:29:14.550
see wandering holy men or wandering Thai
02:29:14.560 --> 02:29:16.309
monks
02:29:16.319 --> 02:29:18.389
that it's it's actually a good thing. So
02:29:18.399 --> 02:29:19.990
in a way they're putting themselves out
02:29:20.000 --> 02:29:21.990
there. You know, it's sort of like the
02:29:22.000 --> 02:29:25.670
rule that monks are required to accept
02:29:25.680 --> 02:29:27.429
alms food. They can't grow their own
02:29:27.439 --> 02:29:29.510
food. They can't provide their own food.
02:29:29.520 --> 02:29:31.590
They have to be fed by lay people. And
02:29:31.600 --> 02:29:33.910
one of the reasons for that is so that
02:29:33.920 --> 02:29:36.150
lay people will be exposed to monks and
02:29:36.160 --> 02:29:37.830
just sort of get an idea of what it's
02:29:37.840 --> 02:29:40.790
all about. And in the west, you don't
02:29:40.800 --> 02:29:42.870
have a lot of monks just going for alms
02:29:42.880 --> 02:29:44.950
in the morning. So just seeing these
02:29:44.960 --> 02:29:47.830
monks walking for peace to Washington is
02:29:47.840 --> 02:29:50.469
is an opportunity for people to be
02:29:50.479 --> 02:29:55.750
exposed to these wandering renuncients.
02:29:55.760 --> 02:29:58.230
So I mean all in all it's harmless at
02:29:58.240 --> 02:29:59.830
worst.
02:29:59.840 --> 02:30:01.110
I don't think that they're trying to
02:30:01.120 --> 02:30:04.870
scam anybody like Varapa was doing.
02:30:04.880 --> 02:30:07.590
Maybe just a teensy bit, you know, just
02:30:07.600 --> 02:30:09.190
getting a few donations. Maybe some of
02:30:09.200 --> 02:30:11.910
them handle money. I don't know.
02:30:11.920 --> 02:30:14.469
Well, yeah, it's I think it's more good
02:30:14.479 --> 02:30:17.590
than bad. I mean, it probably didn't
02:30:17.600 --> 02:30:19.510
really promote world peace all that much
02:30:19.520 --> 02:30:21.670
other than just kind of latent subtle
02:30:21.680 --> 02:30:24.469
seeds planted in the hearts of hundreds
02:30:24.479 --> 02:30:27.349
or thousands of people, which may have
02:30:27.359 --> 02:30:32.550
some vague subtle influence.
02:30:32.560 --> 02:30:34.630
But all in all, I've got nothing bad to
02:30:34.640 --> 02:30:36.710
say about it. And I'm going to move on
02:30:36.720 --> 02:30:39.429
to PSA's next question,
02:30:39.439 --> 02:30:42.309
which is what's the most overrated
02:30:42.319 --> 02:30:44.950
Buddhist text you've ever read? It could
02:30:44.960 --> 02:30:47.190
be scripture from Terravada, Mahayana,
02:30:47.200 --> 02:30:49.270
Vajriana, other traditions or modern
02:30:49.280 --> 02:30:52.070
books written by either monastics or lay
02:30:52.080 --> 02:30:55.110
people. Well, I mean, there's a number
02:30:55.120 --> 02:30:58.710
of Mahayana texts that I really consider
02:30:58.720 --> 02:31:00.070
I mean, the world would be a better
02:31:00.080 --> 02:31:02.469
place if they had never been composed
02:31:02.479 --> 02:31:05.590
like um the Oh, what is it? There's one
02:31:05.600 --> 02:31:08.070
called the Nirvana Sutra that is just
02:31:08.080 --> 02:31:11.190
like a cardinal text for like some pure
02:31:11.200 --> 02:31:12.950
land Buddhist some other Mahayana
02:31:12.960 --> 02:31:15.110
Buddhist and if you read it I mean it's
02:31:15.120 --> 02:31:18.469
obviously just a madeup fairy tale I
02:31:18.479 --> 02:31:20.150
mean and it's teaching what is
02:31:20.160 --> 02:31:21.830
essentially something the historical
02:31:21.840 --> 02:31:25.190
Buddha himself would have just denounced
02:31:25.200 --> 02:31:29.349
or was weaki nardisha sutra where you've
02:31:29.359 --> 02:31:33.910
got this bodhic sattva a layman named we
02:31:33.920 --> 02:31:38.070
malakerti who is just making fools of
02:31:38.080 --> 02:31:40.790
the Ara disciples of the Buddha and he's
02:31:40.800 --> 02:31:42.790
going to like taverns and whouses and
02:31:42.800 --> 02:31:45.510
this kind of thing. So I mean the
02:31:45.520 --> 02:31:47.830
Wimalakerti near Desha Sutra is one of
02:31:47.840 --> 02:31:51.349
the better known Mahayana Sutras.
02:31:51.359 --> 02:31:53.750
So texts like that I mean it's they do
02:31:53.760 --> 02:31:56.469
more harm than good in my opinion
02:31:56.479 --> 02:31:58.630
it's it's slandering the Buddhist
02:31:58.640 --> 02:32:02.070
teachings in my opinion
02:32:02.080 --> 02:32:04.790
with regard to like terravada Buddhist
02:32:04.800 --> 02:32:08.790
texts the most overrated
02:32:08.800 --> 02:32:11.190
well I mean some of the devotional stuff
02:32:11.200 --> 02:32:13.270
like the Ratana Suta it's one of the 12
02:32:13.280 --> 02:32:16.230
paras it's relatively wellknown if if
02:32:16.240 --> 02:32:19.750
anybody has memorized by heart six
02:32:19.760 --> 02:32:21.990
polyutas the Rata Nasutas, there's a
02:32:22.000 --> 02:32:24.469
good chance that's that's among the six.
02:32:24.479 --> 02:32:25.910
If they've only memorized one, it's
02:32:25.920 --> 02:32:27.270
probably like the metasuta or the
02:32:27.280 --> 02:32:31.670
mangalasut or the damachaka puatanasuta,
02:32:31.680 --> 02:32:34.230
you know, those cardinal basic ones. But
02:32:34.240 --> 02:32:37.429
the ratasuta is wellknown and it never
02:32:37.439 --> 02:32:38.710
really spoke to me. It's just
02:32:38.720 --> 02:32:40.790
devotionalism. you know, there's almost
02:32:40.800 --> 02:32:44.870
no actual dharma in it even though it's
02:32:44.880 --> 02:32:47.910
it's just a basic text because it's it's
02:32:47.920 --> 02:32:50.870
just praising Buddha Dhama and Sa and I
02:32:50.880 --> 02:32:52.870
mean there's nothing necessarily wrong
02:32:52.880 --> 02:32:54.950
with praising Buddha Dama and song but
02:32:54.960 --> 02:32:56.550
when that's all there is to it when
02:32:56.560 --> 02:32:58.070
you're not even getting into any kind of
02:32:58.080 --> 02:33:00.790
philosophy to be praised
02:33:00.800 --> 02:33:02.550
then you know it's just devotionalism
02:33:02.560 --> 02:33:06.309
it's just kind of worshipy and I would
02:33:06.319 --> 02:33:09.030
consider it to be overrated um with
02:33:09.040 --> 02:33:11.429
regard to larger text like the Jotica
02:33:11.439 --> 02:33:14.070
stories. I mean there's there's a lot of
02:33:14.080 --> 02:33:16.150
silliness just flatout silliness in the
02:33:16.160 --> 02:33:19.590
Jotica stories. Um
02:33:19.600 --> 02:33:21.110
and again it's just getting into
02:33:21.120 --> 02:33:23.750
devotionalism. The probably the best use
02:33:23.760 --> 02:33:26.309
of Jotica stories is it's sort of like
02:33:26.319 --> 02:33:29.750
Asup's fables for Buddhists where you
02:33:29.760 --> 02:33:32.790
learn at least about I mean it's kind of
02:33:32.800 --> 02:33:34.790
entertaining stories and you learn about
02:33:34.800 --> 02:33:37.110
ancient India you know what it was like
02:33:37.120 --> 02:33:38.870
living in ancient India that kind of
02:33:38.880 --> 02:33:43.110
thing. Um the Wizudi manga in my opinion
02:33:43.120 --> 02:33:47.590
is overrated. It's it's like um the
02:33:47.600 --> 02:33:51.190
central text in the terravada
02:33:51.200 --> 02:33:54.950
commentarial tradition and
02:33:54.960 --> 02:33:58.150
it seems to me that it's mainly a manual
02:33:58.160 --> 02:34:00.950
on self-hypnosis.
02:34:00.960 --> 02:34:02.710
There is some interesting stuff like
02:34:02.720 --> 02:34:04.230
there's one chapter one of the early
02:34:04.240 --> 02:34:06.150
chapters is just going over the 13
02:34:06.160 --> 02:34:08.150
dutongas the optional aesthetic
02:34:08.160 --> 02:34:10.469
practices. the very the chapter before
02:34:10.479 --> 02:34:12.230
that if I remember correctly is just the
02:34:12.240 --> 02:34:15.270
value of morality you know basic stuff
02:34:15.280 --> 02:34:18.389
like that is is interesting the 32 parts
02:34:18.399 --> 02:34:19.830
of the body there's a chapter going over
02:34:19.840 --> 02:34:22.150
the 32 parts of the body you just see
02:34:22.160 --> 02:34:24.550
plainly enough that they really were
02:34:24.560 --> 02:34:26.790
ignorant of human anatomy and physiology
02:34:26.800 --> 02:34:29.590
in those days you know they had no
02:34:29.600 --> 02:34:32.710
concept of what the brain was for
02:34:32.720 --> 02:34:35.590
example
02:34:35.600 --> 02:34:37.190
so
02:34:37.200 --> 02:34:40.710
yeah Um the most overrated Terravada
02:34:40.720 --> 02:34:44.550
Buddhist text maybe the Wizudi Maga. I
02:34:44.560 --> 02:34:45.990
mean it does have some valuable
02:34:46.000 --> 02:34:48.150
information and you can learn stuff from
02:34:48.160 --> 02:34:52.469
it but uh it is kind of unfortunate to
02:34:52.479 --> 02:34:56.950
me that it is like the central text that
02:34:56.960 --> 02:35:01.190
defines terra Buddhism
02:35:01.200 --> 02:35:03.270
or the Ratana Suta you know I mean
02:35:03.280 --> 02:35:05.190
there's there's quite a few kind of
02:35:05.200 --> 02:35:08.150
famous sutas that don't really have much
02:35:08.160 --> 02:35:10.469
substance to them and so I don't
02:35:10.479 --> 02:35:13.110
consider their cardinal status to be
02:35:13.120 --> 02:35:15.990
really wellought oriented.
02:35:16.000 --> 02:35:17.590
But it's not like I'm I'm saying they're
02:35:17.600 --> 02:35:18.950
bad or anything. I'm just saying that
02:35:18.960 --> 02:35:21.590
they're overrated.
02:35:21.600 --> 02:35:24.150
And so I move on to PSA's third
02:35:24.160 --> 02:35:26.550
question, which is the last question of
02:35:26.560 --> 02:35:30.070
this Q&A finally for the two of you that
02:35:30.080 --> 02:35:32.070
are still watching.
02:35:32.080 --> 02:35:34.389
And he says, "Same question as question
02:35:34.399 --> 02:35:36.630
two, but underrated instead of
02:35:36.640 --> 02:35:38.550
overrated."
02:35:38.560 --> 02:35:41.110
Well, with regard to Tibetan Buddhism, I
02:35:41.120 --> 02:35:42.950
mean, the the Tibetan book of the great
02:35:42.960 --> 02:35:45.510
liberation, the the yoga of knowing the
02:35:45.520 --> 02:35:47.030
mind and its nakedness, I mean, that's
02:35:47.040 --> 02:35:49.110
well worth reading, even though probably
02:35:49.120 --> 02:35:51.910
most Buddhists have never heard of it.
02:35:51.920 --> 02:35:54.230
with regard to
02:35:54.240 --> 02:35:56.630
Mahayana Buddhism, like non- Tibetan
02:35:56.640 --> 02:35:58.469
Mahayana Buddhism. I don't know what the
02:35:58.479 --> 02:36:00.630
most underrated I mean, probably there's
02:36:00.640 --> 02:36:03.670
some real gems in the the zillion
02:36:03.680 --> 02:36:06.469
gajillion volumes of the the Mahayana
02:36:06.479 --> 02:36:10.309
Tropidica, but I'm not exactly sure what
02:36:10.319 --> 02:36:12.870
what they would be because I'm not an
02:36:12.880 --> 02:36:14.710
authority and I've probably never heard
02:36:14.720 --> 02:36:17.510
of them. But with regard to terra I mean
02:36:17.520 --> 02:36:19.349
that's pretty obvious of an answer for
02:36:19.359 --> 02:36:21.190
me would be the atikawaga of the sutin
02:36:21.200 --> 02:36:25.670
pata just the sutin pata in general is I
02:36:25.680 --> 02:36:29.030
mean it used to be this cardinal basic
02:36:29.040 --> 02:36:33.270
texts that just gradually faded into
02:36:33.280 --> 02:36:35.030
obscurity
02:36:35.040 --> 02:36:38.469
like a number of the sutas that Ashoka
02:36:38.479 --> 02:36:39.990
recommended
02:36:40.000 --> 02:36:43.030
for study in his his edicts were from
02:36:43.040 --> 02:36:47.750
the sutin pata Um the but the atakawaga
02:36:47.760 --> 02:36:49.910
of the suchini pata I mean a lot of
02:36:49.920 --> 02:36:52.070
Buddhists have never heard of it which
02:36:52.080 --> 02:36:53.990
is and a lot of terraata Buddhists like
02:36:54.000 --> 02:36:56.710
in in Burma you know they just know the
02:36:56.720 --> 02:36:59.110
the basic ones that are wellknown you
02:36:59.120 --> 02:37:01.750
know kind of like the mainstream texts
02:37:01.760 --> 02:37:03.750
but something like the atagawaga it's
02:37:03.760 --> 02:37:05.429
kind of an embarrassment to orthodox
02:37:05.439 --> 02:37:08.389
terraada because it's not orthodox it's
02:37:08.399 --> 02:37:12.150
like pre-orthodox
02:37:12.160 --> 02:37:14.710
so you know it's just kind of awkward It
02:37:14.720 --> 02:37:17.030
doesn't really fit in to the the
02:37:17.040 --> 02:37:19.190
wellestablished
02:37:19.200 --> 02:37:22.070
system of orthodoxy in Terravada, but in
02:37:22.080 --> 02:37:24.469
my opinion, it is potentially at least
02:37:24.479 --> 02:37:27.990
the most important document in existence
02:37:28.000 --> 02:37:30.790
on this planet that we know of. Who
02:37:30.800 --> 02:37:32.389
knows, they might dig up something in
02:37:32.399 --> 02:37:36.469
Central Asia that's even more just
02:37:36.479 --> 02:37:38.550
groundbreaking or something. But the
02:37:38.560 --> 02:37:41.429
atagawaga is probably the largest
02:37:41.439 --> 02:37:45.110
fragment of archaic pre-terravara
02:37:45.120 --> 02:37:49.830
Buddhism still in existence
02:37:49.840 --> 02:37:51.670
which is one reason why I translated. At
02:37:51.680 --> 02:37:53.270
the time I really didn't have access to
02:37:53.280 --> 02:37:55.830
a good translation. Ajan Tenisero and
02:37:55.840 --> 02:37:57.670
Bikubodi hadn't translated it yet. At
02:37:57.680 --> 02:38:00.950
least it wasn't published by them yet.
02:38:00.960 --> 02:38:05.110
So I made my own translation
02:38:05.120 --> 02:38:06.630
just because I consider it to be so
02:38:06.640 --> 02:38:08.870
important. I mean, it's just like, like
02:38:08.880 --> 02:38:13.670
I say, the largest extent fragment of
02:38:13.680 --> 02:38:16.550
like primitive archaic Buddhism still in
02:38:16.560 --> 02:38:18.790
existence.
02:38:18.800 --> 02:38:21.670
And it's it's grotesqually underrated
02:38:21.680 --> 02:38:24.870
just based on that assessment of mine.
02:38:24.880 --> 02:38:27.830
And so that's it. I'm done. I answered
02:38:27.840 --> 02:38:30.389
all the questions. I hope at least tried
02:38:30.399 --> 02:38:33.110
to answer all the questions.
02:38:33.120 --> 02:38:35.190
So, like I should always say at the
02:38:35.200 --> 02:38:37.510
beginning and pretty much never do, do
02:38:37.520 --> 02:38:39.830
you think I could answer a question of
02:38:39.840 --> 02:38:43.429
yours, you know, mainly about dharma,
02:38:43.439 --> 02:38:45.429
you know, philosophical stuff? Anything
02:38:45.439 --> 02:38:47.190
that you think I can answer? You can
02:38:47.200 --> 02:38:49.429
even ask about evolutionary biology if
02:38:49.439 --> 02:38:52.309
you want, I guess.
02:38:52.319 --> 02:38:54.469
Just uh feel free to leave them in the
02:38:54.479 --> 02:38:57.590
comments below this video. Um, no more
02:38:57.600 --> 02:39:00.469
than three questions per person per
02:39:00.479 --> 02:39:04.469
episode, please. And feel free to check
02:39:04.479 --> 02:39:07.590
out the URL links below, which includes
02:39:07.600 --> 02:39:11.030
the Amazon link to my new book. And uh
02:39:11.040 --> 02:39:13.830
what else? Like and subscribe if you
02:39:13.840 --> 02:39:16.790
haven't done so already. And uh be
02:39:16.800 --> 02:39:19.110
happy. And now I'm going to push this
02:39:19.120 --> 02:39:21.910
button which is going to make me stop
02:39:21.920 --> 02:39:24.920
talking.