Telepathy, Autism & the Science of Consciousness | OuterLimits of InnerScience Ep 6

Media Team: Hello and welcome to the Outer Limits of Inner Science, where we explore human transformation, consciousness, and the science of meditation in order to empower people to heal and thrive. And my psychic knowingness. I think there's a guest joining me today. Dr. Hilary Hamilton is here. ⁓ my goodness. ⁓ my goodness, you did it, Andrew. You're so telepathic. You tuned into me, and here I am. That's amazing. That drew you to me. ⁓ this is gonna be such a great conversation. And you just use those words being telepathic to call me in. What what what is being t telepathic? I don't know. I don't know if anybody knows, but I do feel like the information is available to us in the field, right? Like there we can tap into anything. And I think we we tend to get in our own ways. We have these programs that we run over and over and we've filtered out all of this information. That's right there, that's available to us. Yeah, I think we're we're moving to a time where we are gonna be able to be more telepathic. In fact, when we were just at the event recently, I was in line passing out our words. You know, Inner Science has these words that we pass out, and I was about 50 people in, and this woman reaching reaches into my bag, pulls out a word, and then she goes, Can I have one for my my husband? And I said, No, he's gotta come to the booth to get a word. And a flash of this name came to me and it it said Pam. And for some reason I just it just came out of my mouth. I go, is your name Pam? And she goes, It is. And I was like ready to fall on the floor that I could figure out her name. It didn't even dawn on her that it was strange that I knew her name. But that allowed me to have this knowingness and it just kept going throughout the week. I just think being telepathic can be like an energy that you're tapping into. Right? That you can Connect. Yeah. The information is in the field. And we've seen it at events where people, you know, have their blindfolds on during a meditation and yet they can see. I've had multiple people who have done things like point to me and they point as I walk by during the meditation. I'm like, Are you pointing to me? And they nod their head like this. I'm like, How are they doing this? But I remember Dr. Joe used to tell a story about somebody who waved behind him when he was standing behind them and he wa they waved to him. So We see those kinds of things all the time. And and of course, Hemel Patel talks us about talks about the evolution of the species. And he's the one doing the research at Dr. Joseph Spenz's retreats. Yeah. And think this is an evolution. We're we're learning, we're growing into our abilities. And it's just a matter of kind of quieting down those programs and all those other noises that we have and tuning into the information that's available. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, you know, when we're at these events, we're having such heart and brain coherence. And everyone is having heart and brain coherence. If the energy in the room is just elevated and everybody's like, I had this synchronicity, I had this synchronicity, I had this healing, I had that healing. I think that we're creating this buoyant field with 2,000 plus people. So these things can happen that are supernatural. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the world is opening up to these ideas. There's topics, this topic of telepathy. ⁓ has been on podcasts, it's been in books, it's been on telepathy tapes, that podcast. Yes. Reaching so many people and opening their eyes to possibility, which I think is amazing. Yes, and that that brings us to our our guest that's on the show today. She's a neuropsychologist, she's a neuroscientist, she's a trained psychologist. ⁓ she's retired now from traditional psychology, but she does some amazing research. Yes, you've probably heard her before and we're so glad to have her on the podcast today. Please welcome Dr. Diane Hennessy. Thank you so much for joining us. ⁓ thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. We would love it if you would actually introduce yourself so we could ⁓ learn a little bit about you. Sure. so first of all, I'm someone who trained in neuroscience. And I mean when I say that I mean that I worked in laboratories where I was doing traditional neuroscience and with electron microscopy and ⁓ you know measuring ion flow across neurons and crayfish axons and you you know measuring you know that with a oscilloscope. and was really interested in human consciousness, so went on to be become a neuropsychiatrist, which means I studied both neurology and psychiatry, and then became an expert on autism after working with Sir Michael Rutter in the UK. ⁓ so my all of my training was either at Johns Hopkins or at the Institute of Psychiatry in the UK. Then I went on to be faculty at Harvard, ⁓ at Cambridge Hospital. And after that was at UCSD and now ⁓ I'm recently retired from private practice and it's my work that was the ⁓ basis behind the telepathy tapes. Wow, amazing. And it sounds like you were doing thing work in autism before autism was really known to most people at that time. You know, back then, right? Yeah, yeah. We're talking about I went to I went to England in nineteen eighty six and I mean, even my colleagues at Johns Hopkins, where autism was first ⁓ know the term autism, you know, and the condition was first identified by Leo Canner, who was the head of child psychiatry back in the ⁓ in the forties. ⁓ so even though that's the institution I was at, most people hadn't heard of heard of autism back then. Now everybody has. Yes, because it's so ⁓ predominant in especially in the United States. So a lot of people know who you are because of the telepathy tapes. And ⁓ I'm super excited to dive deep into that because how did you get from looking at autism to knowing that these kids were telepathic? Well, so first of all, I mean it's ⁓ let me back up in terms of understanding why I was interested in autism in the first place. And it was as a result of meeting Oliver Sachs, who was a famous neurologist, who would write these books that ⁓ I hope to, you know, I aspire to be, you know, writing like Oliver Sachs. Let me just say that. He would he would write about these fascinating case stories of people that would have these perky syndromes where there was something that would some glitch in their brain. And and then that would give you some kind of isolated you know difference in the way that you you know perceive things or or ⁓ think. And so you know like somebody who suddenly loses ⁓ has a stroke in their visual cortex in the layer that's involved in color and then boom now they see their world in black and white like you do with the black and white. TV, you know, that kind of thing. And so I thought this is what I want to do. I want to study these kind of cases. And ⁓ but then when I saw this case study in his book about these autistic twins who were institutionalized because they couldn't take care of themselves back in the 60s, and the fact that they were able to not generate but perceive prime numbers. And it was a game they played where one of them would say one prime number of six digits and the other one would say the other prime number. And then, you know, they were able to do that up to twelve digits and it was validated by Oliver Sachs, who was going to prime number tables because, you know, prime numbers, there's no algorithm for generating them and they're just an they're a number that's only divisible by itself and one. And so you've got to just go through a lot of different computations before you you you determine that, ⁓ it's not d visible by anything but itself. And so anyway, so but the these these twins weren't generating them. They were preceding them out there in physical space. And they were able to generate them in or, you I say generate, but they were able to, you know, articulate them in twenty digits and the computers could only calculate up to twelve digits at the time. And when I saw that, I was mesmerized as somebody whose background was ⁓ you know, as a kid I was gifted in math. And I so I had I already had an understanding of the implications of that. And I and I have a brother who's a theoretical physicist, an expert on ⁓ quantum mechanics and AI. And ⁓ and I and I just was like, This is what I want to study. And so so that's why I became interested in autism. And so I was really trying to figure out Savant syndrome. 'Cause to me, I mean, that's just as remarkable as anything that parapsychologists were. And yet, you know, it was something that was, you know, mainstream ⁓ you know, medicine was not balking against. You know, they just didn't have a model for understanding. So I said, well, that's what I'm gonna understand. And and it seemed to me that a lot of these savant abilities were very similar to what people who ha report to have psychic abilities report, you know, that it's a per pr perception. ⁓ you know, I saw a vision or you know I heard a voice say or you know my my guide you know taught me you know and and so I started thinking about well you know why you know why why that be? And because my my whole point of you know doing this has been to try to really understand the brain and consciousness and how it works. and I thought about how there are people in dreams who oftentimes receive information that is very similar to what the savants are able to experience just in their waking life. And I thought, well that's interesting because in dreams, in dreaming sleep, the left hemisphere is dominant. I mean, the left hemisphere is no longer dominant over the right hemisphere. You know, in our waking life, the left hemisphere is dominant. That's the analytical, logical, language based one. But when we're in our dreaming sleep, you know, all kinds of impossible things can happen and and it and it's it's it's very different world than it than the you know the other. It's more it's more creative, more intuitive. And I thought, well, now that's interesting that that is the functional that there's this difference in brain functionality between these two very r radically different ⁓ states of consciousness. And so I wanted to know, well, what do we know but from, you know, functional imaging on dreaming state? And I saw that also the frontal lobes are less active. And so I thought, I did a sort of a thought experiment. I was like, okay, well, you know, who is it that because now you have to realize that with my background, even without doing a CT scan on somebody, I can have a sense of what's going on in their brain functionally without having to do it because I understand how the brain operates from that standpoint. And so I'm like, well, who is it in their waking state would be like that? And I'm like, well, first of I'd be a child. You know, they you their frontal lobes are, you know, they're not as ⁓ they're not fully myelinated, you know, with the rest of the brain. So ⁓ they're having less of an influence over it. And then I thought, and that's gonna be somebody who is right hemisphere dominant. And and that's really, you know, individuals who are ⁓ neurodivergent, you know, what we call Autistic because, you know, one of the criteria for being diagnosed autistic is you have something wrong with your language. Okay, that's that means something's going on with the left hemisphere that's not ⁓ you know, up to par, you know, and and and then you look at their their skills, ⁓ visual spatial pattern recognition, ⁓ you know, just very intuitive, you should all kind of get get the whole picture at once kind of thing. Well, you know, I I thought Wow, that you know, the autistic individual brain is is more like that of dreaming sleep in terms of the operating system, if you know, for lack of a better word. And so I put it out there that if, you know, because we have very little brain imaging on ⁓ savants even. And so I just put it out there and I said, well, if anybody, and I said this back in 2005 at the Science of Consciousness conference when I was in Copenhagen, ⁓ I presented ⁓ a theory about savant syndrome. And ⁓ and and one of the things I said was this is what I would anticipate is that if you had that that autistic individuals, you know, maybe why they have savant abilities is because of having reduced ⁓ frontal lobe activity and and increased right hemisphere over left hemisphere activity. And ⁓ and then I said, you know, that I thought that that you know that could be the case for, you know, that That if anybody could prove ESP, it would be an autistic savant because I thought that the that it was really a similar phenomenon. And it was after that, and after writing my book, The ESP Enigma, that was first published in 2008, ⁓ in hard copy, ⁓ it was after writing that, which I also proposed that, that I was invited to go to India to meet these savants and to start doing some experiments with them and assessing. There's some vulnerabilities. And it was when I was over there that the people said, ⁓ you know, by the way, they're they're also very telepathic. I said, ⁓ okay, well, I guess you know it's like ⁓ you know, a two for one thing here. I guess I've got to, you know, s study that too. Wow. Well, there's so much to unpack there. Going back to what you said w where you started with the idea of ⁓ the the twins and and having access to these prime numbers. It it made me think about the fact that the information, any information is available in the field, that we it's just a matter of how do we tap into it. And then you started talking about left brain, left hemisphere, right hemisphere. Is is there a part, have you done research, has someone done research where there's a part of the brain that we know or we believe might be more responsible for either telepathy or being able to download information that's available to us? Well, I mean, I have some theories about it. ⁓ it you know, it's really hard to do brain imaging studies on these children. And it and a lot of that has to do with the fact that you get so much artifact if there's any movement. Right. And if you've ever spent any time around these individuals, you see that they're kind of like this, and they're just very, very fidgety. And and so So it's it's problematic. And especially when you think about how expensive it is to rent the room where you've got the MRI scanner. You've got the, you know, this kid that's, you know, not gonna cooperate. So ⁓ so anyway, so we really don't have much imaging. ⁓ but at the same time, as I think about how the brain works, ⁓ one of the things that, you know, I thought, well, If you were to reduce left frontal lobe activity. Okay. You know, if you had you know, so think of it in terms of instead of it being what do we need to turn on, think of it as what do we need to turn off? You know, you know, if if you h if you see that like a lot of little children know things, you know, they're Remember past lives, they have little imaginary friends, you know, whatever those you know, maybe they're not so imaginary after all. Exactly. Right. I I agree with you. And and so so you think, you know, and then something gets turned off. And and and and so one of the things that we know is that during the first seven years of development, the major pathway in the brain that is happening that enables for the expression of language. is the you know it it's one of the names for is the dorsal language pathway. You know, there's a ventral language pathway and there's a ⁓ a dorsal one. And the dorsal language pathway is the one that connects Wernicke's area, which is involved in the understanding of language with Broca's area, which is in the front level frontal lobe, you know, left lobe lobe. That's what's involved in the expression of language. And that's expression of language, whether you're talking about ⁓ typing with your hands, writing, or speaking. Interesting. ⁓ they're they're they're linked together in that area. If if I see that somebody has trouble with speaking, but they can express themselves through typing, then that then that makes me question whether it's the brocus area. It makes me think it's another it's another process going on. So that's the the process of, you know, kind of you know, deduction that I would go through. ⁓ And so anyway, ⁓ you know, and it's like, well, okay, well, that area is developing during the first seven years of life. And ⁓ guess what? In the non-speakers, this sort of like the focus of the telepathy tapes. That's the area of the brain that that that that ⁓ you know doesn't get fully developed. They they go into an arrested development. Something happens, you know, they're developing normally, starting to speak, and then something happens and you know, ⁓ that doesn't happen. So then it So I thought, well, maybe, you know, that the shutoffs didn't happen. And so then I learned of this research that after saying that, I learned of this research by the head of neurology at the University of Toronto named Morris Friedman. And what he did was is he started using he noticed the people with the stroke in the left frontal lobe were more gifted that way. And so then he used transcranial magnetic stimulation to reduce the activity in that part of the brain than normal people and saw that yes indeed it it it gave them you know they they scored statistically much higher on things for telepathy and then and also studied them for their effect on random number generators. So So so that's one way that I think about it. Okay. But then another part of the brain that's been of interest to me is the angular gyrus. And the re and tell me if I'm talking over people's heads. No, this is great. Even if you are, they'll go and look it up. I think it's so great because our our audience loves the brain and is very familiar with a lot of different parts. So I'm even as you're saying this, I'm thinking, okay, we need a meditation where we anesthetize the left frontal lobe. Through meditation. And then we get more psychic. So no, please keep going. Yeah. ⁓ so so what's interesting about the angular gyrus, and the reason why I became interested in it is it's first of all, it's location. Okay. You know, it's located right about here. And so it's right at the crossroads of all of these sensory cortices. You know, you know, audition, you know, and you know, and then vision, right? And then sensory motor. Okay. And Most if not all of the savants that I work with and ones I haven't worked with that ha you know that are famous like Daniel Tammit, okay, who can recite Pi, you know, the the non-repeating ⁓ constant pi to over twenty two thousand digits. And and he can do that because he sees all of the numbers ⁓ as they each have their own color and shape and he sees them like a ticker tape parade in front of him. Yeah. Okay. And and so the fact that that's how, you know, he experiences it is due to something called synesthesia. And that I you know, people have s suspected might be related to the angular gyrus because of where it's located. Well, another thing is is that The angular gyrus is also involved in the manipulation of symbols. So it, you know, and once again, you know, getting into, you know, what these autistic savants do, you know, they've got this fascination with numbers, you know, like, you know, like Pi or, you know, Tibanaji, you know. ⁓ And ⁓ and so I'm like, ⁓ well, that's really interesting. ⁓ because you know, you know, if you have a stroke there, you get ⁓ something called Gerstmann syndrome and Gerzman syndrome you don't know which finger is which okay which could explain you know any issues with that area which could explain some of what you're seeing with these autistic savans because they really have difficulty with with that but also it causes dyscalculia what's that it means you have trouble calculating You know, calculation is in the arithmetic that we learn in school. Right. And and a lot of these mathematical savants, they can't do calculation. They get their answers some other way. Right. It's not from calculation. And and then the other thing about the angular gyrus is that it's the area of the brain that the Swedish neurosurgeon, when he stimulated it, it it induced a partial out of body experience. Interesting. That's fascinating. Here you're having all of these things that I see with these kids, you know, from they they're they they're out of their bodies a lot of the time. They've got synesthesia, they've got, you know, difficulty with knowing w you know, left from right. You know, that's another part of Schirtman syndrome. ⁓ so So they've got and and we know that there are alterations in the angular gyrus and autistic individuals. I mean, there's a lot of differences in the brain of people that are autistic, but but the angular gyrus is definitely one of them. And the angular gyrus is one of the things that, you know, differentiates us from, you know, other species, you know, that we're we're we're more symbol based and other species are not. And so so I I suspect that it has something to do with you know, the ⁓ so and that's located ⁓ you know, ⁓ you know, right at the temporal parietal junction, you know. And, you know, and so I was particularly interested in the one on the right hemisphere, you know, because of this left hemisphere, right hemisphere thing. And so when I told ⁓ when I told Jeff Tarrant that, ⁓ and he had he one of these God helmets, you know, just particularly to stimulate that, ⁓ using ⁓ you know, magnetic stimulation, ⁓ And it did bring on greater psychic abilities and this individually did it in. And so ⁓ so I think I think, you know, so those were two series I came up with just based on what I knew. And then lo and behold, you know, they both ⁓ at least there's preliminary data that they bear fruit, you know. So ⁓ amazing. Yeah, we do a lot of studies with EEGs, ⁓ with people at Dr. Joe's events, and it would be interesting if we could focus. Like I know your wheels were spinning, Andrew, on that. Absolutely. And and we have we bring in a lot of children with autism on on the spectrum. And some of them, yes, they're moving and jumping. Others will just settle in like they're being held in a nest. That they're during the healing perceived that they're so aware of frequency and energy that when they walk into a room with a lot of chaos that They're like, get me out of here. Like they're they're just very aware of those things. But when you walk into a room at an event where people have been meditating for hours and hours and days, the energy in that room is really kind of sublime. And they they just they drift off to sleep. And I was thinking literally, I I think we could do E E G or E E G on these children because they're often they're with their mother or their father and they just lay down and drift away. And I remember. coming out of meditations and the audience is up and moving and the child is still just out and the mother's saying, like, he never sleeps like this. I've never seen him so peaceful. Yeah, but their hands behind their head. Like it's all relaxed. Yeah, but the problem problem with that is is that then you're getting their E E G while they're sleeping and you're not getting their E G without smoking the telepathy. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. You know, ⁓ Yeah, but but it is it it is true. They're very, very sensitive to the energy. And I've had a lot of times when I was a ⁓ when I was a practicing psychiatrist where you know a parent might bring a kid in and say that kid yeah, and the k kid would always be calm in my presence. You know, the parent would be saying, Well, believe it or not, this is what the kid does all the time. Right? Yeah. Have to say, well, I believe you. I d because I know that, you know, it's different when people come here and ⁓ sure it just has a calming effect. And and we think about that, one of the things that we talk about is brain and heart coherence. It's kind of getting getting aligned. Like when when your thoughts match your emotions, match what your physical body's doing, I think they perceive all of that information. And when they look at you and see that you're aligned and calm and saying what you're thinking and those things are aligned. Otherwise, if they're looking at Whoever, their parent or somebody else who's kind of misaligned, they're thinking one thing, they're saying something else, and they're showing something else. And I think those kids see all of those things just like animals in nature and why why are animals drawn to some people and not others? And I think it has to do with that that alignment that they're they're perceiving. Right. Yeah. I mean they they I think that they can definitely perceive the misalignment and they don't even need to know the specifics of. You know, they don't need to know that you you know, the the reason why you don't have a heart brain coherence is because you're you're you're not happy with, you know, your current life situation and yet you you're you're rationalize why you need to stay and ⁓ you know they don't need to know the specifics of why, although, you know, I mean they they may. I mean they know they may but they don't need You know, I see it as very similar to how cats are. Mm-hmm. And I've heard people say that. I've heard people say that autistic individuals are a lot like cats. And there's some there's some truth to that and that a cat reads the energy of the room. Yeah. Yeah. I I think there's also a bridge, and I'm I'm sure you would agree with people who are psychotic and or schizophrenic, where there's a bridge there too. Like there's some awareness of something. I've I've talked to them many times where wow, I feel like they know a lot more than they should, and yet they just don't function really well in 3D society, this world that we've set up. And so they've g they they seem to have access to something or maybe even be perceiving things that we're not seeing. And and as a result, they just don't really fit in society. And so we end up having to medicate them or hospitalize them for their own protection. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's it's interesting because it's like if you think of you know, I as a neuropsychiatrist tend to think of kind of like ⁓ you know, cognitive function, for example, as like hierarchical. Okay. And and so and what I mean by that is that you know, you have to realize that I, you know, I've I've studied neurodevelopmental and neurodegenerative disorders. So I'm, you know, I'm looking at, you know, what people, you know, where they get arrested in their development. And then I'm also looking at what people are losing as they you know, as they suffer, you know, different insults to their brains. And and so there's sort of this hierarchy of, you know, well, if you lose this, then you ⁓ that if you can't do that, then you definitely can't do this, right? And And so one of the things that's intriguing with with these autistic savants is that the usual hierarchy for most of us doesn't seem to apply for them. Interesting. I mean you're not going to sign the kid up for calculus. Right, right. You know. So well, you know, what's going on there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. And how did you get to using the spelling boards where ⁓ they were spelling things out? Is that how you kind of came to the conclusion that they could communicate with their parents or with other individuals? Like how did that come about? Well, so the the first so the the children that I studied over in India actually had access to computers and so you know, so I didn't run into letterboards over there. ⁓ ironically, because the letterboard was actually first introduced by an Indian woman who here in the US who had a non-speaking son named Tito. This is a woman named Soma, whose last name nobody can pronounce, unfortunately. But she she developed this communication method, you know, for her son. And so so how I learned about it was that ⁓ when I came back from India and I was like, ⁓ I really wanna, you know, if there's anybody who's telepathic, I'd love to study them and and then literally within six months I had ⁓ this parent contact me saying that they had he had a daughter who who he he and his wife and these two therapists had discovered was very telepathic and who you know and and ⁓ he thought it would be important for science and so I went and studied her. And she was typing into one of those what's called a talker where it's like an iPad with an electronic voice. But then what happened was is that when I said, you know, I need to do the telepathy experiment with a visual barrier between you and the therapist, what happened was is she regressed. And when children regress, they go back and they they want they they they they go back to an earlier stage of development and And you know, in some cases, you know, what that is is they, you know, they if they were potty trained, they stopped being potty trained. Or it may be that, you know, ⁓ they didn't need their their doll anymore, their teddy bear anymore, to go to bed, but now all of a sudden they need it. So there's you know, something that causes them to just kind of regress in their behavior. ⁓ well, in her case, ⁓ how she regressed was she w she needed to go back to the letter board for communication. And so all of a sudden now I've got this person saying, well, we got to go back to the letterboard. And I'm like, ⁓ what what's what's that? And I was like trying to understand, you know, why is it that, you know, she needs to, you know, point to this thing that she trained with when it wasn't a motor coordination thing, you know, because y you know, initially they start out with the letterboard because the letters are big enough that you don't need to ha be as accurate, you know, 'cause they have a lot of problem with proprioception or their ability to know where their where their finger is in space. And so so, you know, and and you you're you're doing what's almost like occupational therapy with them when you're ⁓ you know, having them y you know, ⁓ practice, practice, practice pointing to letters that get more and more accurate. Then you can move them to the smaller and smaller screen, you know, or smaller and smaller. device. And so anyway, so she so I knew that it that wasn't the problem. It was psychological. And it so it was really much more, much more like a crutch. ⁓ because it made her anxious to have something new introduced. And so then, you know, when you now you have somebody holding something and they're moving it, some, you know, they're having to move it. And then I needed to understand, well, what's the process behind that? Why is the therapist moving this board? And what they explained to me, and and knowing what I know about autism, it made sense to me, is that they tend to get fixated. And and so unless you give them a, you know, kind of like with the movies where you, you know, you have that, you know, we're starting from you know, you know, they need some kind of signal that ⁓ okay, you know, next frame. Next and so so what I would see is the therapist would just be doing this. But unfortunately, you know, the skeptics who for whom this is just so mind blowing to think that this stuff is possible, they they think, ⁓ you know, she's cueing with the letterboard, she's you know, th it's gotta be in, you know, this position when it's this letter, that position, when it's that letter when it it it really I mean, I I was I saw how this whole thing evolved. It wasn't like they'd been practicing with the letterboard whole all h all the time and then and then I you know, enter in and and ⁓ and and a stooge believing it. ⁓ but ⁓ and and we've gone back since then. I had ⁓ other scientists and I have gone back and we've looked at all you know that video footage and shown that no there's no pattern where, you know, board is in this position versus that position. ⁓ so anyway, so that's but I but I and then I trained, you know, on it. You know, I mean I I went to a couple of workshops and and, you know, I never became you know, somebody who uses it, but I d I went through the training workshop just so that I'd understand it because I I want I really felt that as a scientist I needed to understand this communication method that they're using. And and from the speech you know therapist perspective, why you know, why does this work? Why can't you do that? Et cetera. Do you do you think the board or spelling is a a bridge or is it kind of what exposed the telepathy or Or is that kind of what they're somehow seeing is the information from the board or something like that? Like w would would we have gotten to the same point without using the spelling, I guess, is the question. Well, yeah, I mean, I th and I think it's a legitimate question. ⁓ and my answer is really ⁓ it depends upon the child. Okay. So there were cases of individuals who are autistic, who ⁓ were demonstrating telepathy and there was no letterboard ever involved. Okay. Yeah, you know, I mean, ⁓ you know, they ⁓ they they type on a keyboard. It was discovered when they were typing on a keyboard. Okay. Yeah. And yeah, you know, so it's it's not an artifact of that. Right. ⁓ I yeah, I had one boy I did research with who could speak the answers. I'm a another boy who can write the answers. ⁓ the thing is, is that those individuals are rare. There are more individuals that are the non speakers who use spelling boards now than there are that that do those other things. ⁓ and even they are a small percentage of the non speaker population. I mean, you know, I've I've heard that there's like 30 million of these non-speakers in the world ⁓ and only about 10,000 of them ⁓ have been taught spelling. And do you have do you know what percentage of them based on your research ⁓ make may have the telepathy or psychic abilities? It's really hard for me to say. Yeah. It is really hard for me to say because you know, and I mean, there's so many things about this that are fascinating. Yeah. You know, because you can have ⁓ a real major cluster in you know that's those kids working with a specific speech therapist. Okay. Right. And you know, and that's what I see. And so one could say, ⁓ well that, you know, that that raises alarm bells because y you know, y you know, this this person is probably doing subtle cueing and they just don't know it. ⁓ but I don't think that that's what it is because Some of the most profound ⁓ evidence for telepathy that has occurred between them had nothing to do with the with the letter board. It's just that it it's just not that which we have in a controlled laboratory setting. It's those spontaneous things where the the the child knows something about the therapist. Right. That you know, there's no way they should know. Yeah. And it it wasn't it wasn't something that ⁓ yeah. Yeah, it was something that they bring up spontaneously. Yeah, one of one of my friends who's a Dr. Joe student, she has an autistic grandson. And after watching the telepathy tapes, she went, she was visiting her her daughter and and son in law, and she telepathically told The child, ⁓ if you can understand me, come touch my face. And the child got up and touched her face, and she was just completely blown away. I think the research that you've brought forward is just going to open up so many doors for parents and children to have that knowingness of being able to communicate. It's just a whole nother level of understanding, gosh, you know, how connected we really are and how intelligence. How intelligent these kids really are. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And and so so many of them, that's how they did the things like that is how they discovered the telepathy. It was them thinking, you know, boy, you know, you know, how did how did the kid know this? And then and then they just doing their own experiment. They're just like thinking, okay, I'm gonna think, you know, hey, can you bring me a, you know, a glass of water? And then the kid goes and brings him a glass of water. The kid doesn't ever do that. It's just like, okay, yeah, you know, it it's like, pretty com you know, it's pretty interesting. And I've seen them I've seen them do things, you know, as well where they they've been able to read some of them been able to read somebody who is not holding the letterboard. You know, and ⁓ but I'd say that's the minority, you know, but ⁓ yeah, so but yeah at the same so you've got that going on, yet at the same time you have these individuals for whom they're They they absolutely need the person they're telepathic with to hold the letterboard. Sure. They for some reason they they need that to be the way it's set up. Yeah. And and and and why wouldn't there be all those differences? Just like there is in the rest of humanity where some of us are maybe a little bit more entangled with others and have some more knowingness or see things and know things. And then there's others that just are like, nope. Not not interested, don't even know that it's that's a possibility. But I I think as a as a whole, as humanity puts more attention on these things and and opens up to the possibility, then I think it becomes more real. And I think it used to be more real and more accepted until we o started overlaying so many programs and getting distracted by so many things. So I think we're at a at a really important turning point where it's going to become more commonplace because we're seeing it demonstrated and we're proving it scientifically. Yeah, yeah. Well, I I agree with that. and ⁓ and what's interesting is that, and this gets to kind of the the work that ⁓ like Joe Dispenza does, you know, about coherence, okay, is that I mean, one of the things that I hear from these Children is that they can't work with somebody ⁓ telepathically unless that person matches their own frequency. So so so it may be, you know, something to do with a coherence of frequency. that that they need in the individual they're working with. So that might be what you you know, that may be why you see these clusters. Nothing nothing to do with subtle, you know, cueing or anything, but but really more a a matter of coherence and and that they are ⁓ you know better broadcasters of their thought. They're more coherent, you know, or that this the child you know is has more of a desire to merge with them because they talk about it being rather than it being a signal going from one to the other, they talk about it more like it's that they now are sharing consciousness. It's more like there's kind of a merging that's going on. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're headed there. Yeah. There's a ⁓ there's actually only one case that I know of of an induced savantism. And ⁓ His name is Jason Podja. He he was attacked coming out of a bar. Yeah, I know this case. Yeah. ⁓ he's savant and synestesia. He's the only case that where he he got both of them. And I met him many years ago. He came and did a TED talks in Tacoma, Washington, where he lives. And ⁓ he had to go back to school in order to try to explain what he was seeing. So he went and studied math in order to then explain it. And he could draw it and he could talk about it in all these different frames, but One of the things that I always found fascinating as as a as a video producer, filmmaker, I understand the idea of seeing frames, how we blur everything together. And he's seen every individual frame. So he could see the the speed of light coming off of a car and know exactly how fast the car is going, for example. But one of the things you've talked about is like the the speed or the time that the their time perception. And I'm really interested in that because we we've also recently talked to Ellen Langer, who did a study where wound healing was based on perceived time, not actual time. So I'm wondering like, has anyone ever looked at these children who are perhaps perceiving time differently? And are their wounds healing faster or slower than normal? Because their perception of time might be different. That's interesting. Yeah, I'm curious about that. That that's a very interesting observation that ⁓ about you know perception of time. I mean, because ⁓ you know, you have to ask really, ⁓ is is that the causal effect or is that more like, you know, an outcome of the same underlying ⁓ process? In other in other words, ⁓ You know, that one of the theories about the differences in how we perceive time's passage has to do with dopamine. Mm-hmm. Right. So, you know, one of the that's one of the, you know, theories about it. And and and certainly, you know, different states of consciousness ⁓ you know are related to you know you can evoke different states of consciousness with certain chemicals. Okay. Well So so, you know, is it related to that or is it related to the psychological component of it? It it can be a little bit ⁓ harder to to to tease out ⁓ you know, what it's due to. what I'm most interested in are those sayings that could in terms of experiment, ⁓ it are things that take it out of the physical realm. Because because the physical realm keeps us kind of ⁓ in the in a paradigm that hasn't really moved that much from you know the the paradigm that we currently have in mainstream you know mainstream. True, true. And and I I I some of the things that I have seen suggest that it that it that the that materialism is is is fundamentally incorrect. Let's go there. Yeah. Yeah. This is one of we're we're just touching on one of our favorite topics. The non-physical, non-material. when we start talking about spirituality, death and dying, near-death experiences, there's so much to unpack here. And let's let's dive into that. Sure. I mean, I wouldn't even know where to start. ⁓ Well, what's more than the non physical? And I know you've done some research and you've done some keynote speaking on near death experiences. Yeah. I mean, you know, well, so, you know, one of the things that intrigues me, I mean, and I've had my own, you know, two versions of a near death experience. and ⁓ in one of them it was when I was ⁓ around thirteen, fourteen years old and I was in a ⁓ canoe that was ⁓ flipped over in a river and I ⁓ went under and ⁓ basically had a life review. I mean I was dying and somebody saw what happened and and went s who who had been a lifeguard in the summer and and saved my life. and and then I had another ⁓ this wasn't a near death, but this was one in where I was hit by somebody when I was crossing a street. I was unconscious for several hours. This is when I was in my early twenties before going to medical school. And ⁓ and so something changed in me during that period of being unconscious. And ⁓ and when I went to a lecture by PMH Atwater, where she was talking about all of her research she's done on near death experiences. I recognized myself in the list. I was like, ⁓ my and I went up to her afterwards and I said, Well, I had you know, I all of these things happened to me after, you know, an accident in which I was not conscious for several hours. And she goes, ⁓ that counts, you know. And so, you know, I she thought, you know, same same thing. And and so, you know, and it it is sort of similar to to me, it's sort of similar to acquired savant syndrome. You know, I I mean I was I mean, I I was gifted beforehand, but I was but afterwards I w you know, I somehow yeah, I you know, I started having more synchronicities, you know, heightened intuition, stuff like that. and so ⁓ so you know, what I wonder about is ⁓ you know, why is it, you know, what is it about a near death experience that ⁓ brings about those changes. Yeah. What what is it about, you know, like what why did Jason Padgett, you know, get acquired Savant syndrome after, you know, his concussion? Right. Yeah. You know. and you know what I thought about was that, you know, having an out-of-body experience ⁓ seems to be a connecting bridging principle. Between all of these different really heightened psychic abilities that the people have. You know, whether you're talking about the people that ⁓ were some of the best remote viewers, they they were the ones who could astral project. They weren't just sitting there going, well, it kind of looks like this. You know, they just would project over there over there. They're just like, give me the coordinates and all of a sudden my my consciousness over there, right? ⁓ unbelievable. And yeah, you know, but I mean it was being paid for by, you know, ⁓ by our taxpayer dollars, right? Military funding, you know, intelligence funding. So anyway, ⁓ and and so, you know, that or you know, you have near death experience, you know, there's an out of body component to it. and and so and and people who've had severe trauma such that they disassociate on a regular basis, those I found that those people oftentimes have these abilities. So I think that out-of-body experience is a common ⁓ thing. And the way I think of it is it's it's almost like there's ⁓ there's now like a split in the seam. Right. The veil is very thin. Yeah, yeah. I mean you've got you've got you've got a tear there now. Yeah, you know, you've you've got a portal in in whatever that is, right? That is the veil between. Between your sense of, you know, you know, you know, only the embodied perspective. Yeah versus, you know, everything else that's out there that's not being filtered by the brain. Yeah. Because I really do believe that the brain operates more as a filter. Yeah, and I I think you're you're Right on, also I would bridge to that mystical experience. Someone in a meditation comes out and they are a different person. They've had such a profound experience because I think they've dipped their toe in the quantum field or source or God or the mind of God or consciousness, whatever you want to call it. And and those same people are doing out-of-body astral project projection are accessing the field. That that same thing, that same all information available to everyone. I think it's it's amazing and that that that is a very common experience. And I I love that we there's so many different ways of accessing it. Hopefully we don't all have to have a near death experience. We can actually do it in meditation. Some people probably do it with psychedelics. But I'm sure there's a lot of different ways to as you said like tear that little seam that makes it possible to go back and forth because sometimes once that door is open, now it's accessible. to to you more easily because you're not just believing in something now you know it because you've had the experience. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I mean ideally it is something that you have control over. Yeah. Yeah, that that's that's the ideal situation. Yeah. We we were actually meeting with some youth recently who said, wait a minute, if if everybody gets, if we're evolving to this state of being, everyone's telepathic, that means there's no secrets. And I said, Yeah, exactly. They said, But you could tell they were like, But I wanna have some secrets. Like, well, maybe look at that. Why do you want to have secrets? And or it'll be a different world. If we all know everything, we have access to everything, then there yeah, there won't be secrets, but no one will care. Like you if your parents are watching you, if your grandparents are watching you right now and you're doing something you're ashamed of, they're not judging you. Well they're they're beyond that. Yeah, I mean, you know, another way that I would put it, 'cause I mean it's tr you know, 'cause a lot of people a lot of people like when they first heard about the telepathy taste, they thought, ⁓ you know, these mothers or whatever, they're just trying to get glory for themselves and yeah, you know, I mean you know, there was a you know, like no, when these parents first contact me, most of them, I mean, yeah, you know, the ones that are out in the media all the time, I mean, you know, that you know, they you know, some of them do enjoy, you know, do ⁓ enjoy being out there in the media, but Most of the people who contact me that they're terrified. They're like, Well, I can't carry my freaking mind. I get you know, do I have any privacy? You know, I mean they're like, How do I live with this? You know, they're they're not contacting me saying, ⁓ isn't this wonderful? You know, kumbaya, you know. They're like, No, what do I do? So that's the reality of it. ⁓ but you see, the thing is is that You know, the the if we live in a world in which there's no secrets, yet you know, you nobody can keep secrets. It's like what you have to realize is that whoever's afraid that someone else might know their secrets, it's like w what I'd say to them is, you know, everybody you're afraid has would know your secrets probably have even worse secrets than you. That's right. And and once once you find that out, you're just coming like, ⁓ shit. Yeah. Everybody's dead off the hook all at the same time. You're not gonna have to put so much attention into, you know, whatever, because you know, whatever we're trying to hide about ourselves, that is exactly what gets in the way of our own evolution. Absolutely. Our own transformation. And so you y you know, and so there's always this protective, you know, instinct to ⁓ no, I don't wanna, you know, let go of that. But it's just like You know, sometimes you just gotta rip it away, you know, and just say, Hey, you know, ⁓ and then you say, ⁓ it's not it's not so bad after all. I mean Exactly. I a lot of people feel better after s the thing that they've been hiding for all these years is finally out because it's Right. It's just let go of that. It's it's icky, you know, it doesn't belong to you. ⁓ what do you think about these ⁓ nonverbal autistic children? Do you think they're here to To teach humanity something? Are are we uncovering ⁓ something with your work that's that we're supposed to learn from them? Well, they definitely will tell you that's the case. And then I, you know, and I certainly think, you know, ⁓ So they actually verbalize that? Or not verbalize it, but they what do they say? Absolutely, 100%. it's funny because some of them really put down, you know, normies. They both say things like, you know, ⁓ y you know, you you know, you you think, you know, and they're not referring to me, but you know, they're they're just like, you know, you know, you know, ⁓ those normies, you know, they they talk about such petty things, you know. You know, that I mean they see they see the human species as very superficial. They're they're like, you know what, you know, you guys, you know, you're all you gossip, you care about this, you care about that. I mean, they're really looking at humanity from a very, very elevated lens. I mean and ⁓ it and and so yeah, they're right, you know. I mean you you can't argue with them on a lot of that, you know. Yeah, and and so they some of them, I mean, are really, really really committed to and say it's their mission and it's why they're here. It's why they chose to come here is because they they see themselves as being part of a a group that's here to evolve humanity. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And we yeah, yeah. We we use words. We we're using words to describe concepts and they're just symbols that we've all agreed to. And yet the the the telepathy idea Of holding an image of an apple versus trying to describe it with the word apple. Like it's such a more complete way of of having a conversation, of describing something, because our words are so limited. And when we have an ⁓ an experience, like a mystical experience, words just don't do it. And and I've I see it happen at our events all the time. And there's just there's just nothing to say. You just hug and love on each other. And like words aren't going to describe what just happened to that person. So I'm wondering what. What is it that keeps you up at night? What what do you want to know? And you just love to either do research or just to download something and know it. ⁓ well, I mean, I ⁓ I would say that's I mean, you're describing the arc of my life. The chronic insomniac, you know. But I get I get a lot of my ⁓ best ideas in the middle of the night. And that's part of why. It's not that I'm, you know, worrying about things. Yeah, you know, it it's more I get an insight and and my mind wants to track tra you know, take it where it will go. Yes. You know, and that's not conducive to sleep at two in the morning. ⁓ it y you know, but it but it is ⁓ it is what happens, you know, and and so I ⁓ I sort of honor that process. and ⁓ and you know, and I really I I'd say, you know, that boy, I there's so many things that are fascinating, but y you know, I think I think at this stage in, you know, my career, ⁓ at this critical juncture, you know, in terms of, you know, for humanity, I I I I what I try to do is think about what are the experiments that I could do. Yes. ⁓ that if I can pull them off and then also combine that with theory, okay, then that it really it just finally kicks us out of this paradigm. Okay. You know, because I I see our current paradigm as ⁓ you know very, very problematic. I mean, not only is it you know, incomplete and incorrect, but it it's problematic and And it's it it it's it's hurting humanity rather than helping at this point. I mean, there may be a lot of great discoveries that came out of science because of the, you know, scientific ⁓ you know, method and ⁓ you know, and the this materialist paradigm. But it w we're ready, we are ready, more than ready to have something new come along because ⁓ you know the problems that I you know, we all thought when we were younger would be solved with today's methodology. It's it's, you know, yeah, we've got a lot more technology, but look, y you know, everything as a result of that technology has just gotten more and more out of control. I mean, we've got we've got I don't know how many I mean, I trained before Prozac. We we we have, you know, so many more medications for psychiatric conditions now that than we did when I was in training and yet all of the condition psychiatrist treat have skyrocketed. Mm-hmm. And and and they're not even being that well managed. Yeah. And and and so it's like, you know, at a certain point you have to say, you know, you know, ⁓ it it's insanity to keep thinking you're gonna find a solution to, you know, these problems, you know you know, the way that we've been trying to find a solution to these problems. We need a totally different way. And and so, you know, I've become very, very interested in ⁓ you know, sound and light and the the way that sound and light work with you know, we're basically just, you know, ⁓ you know, sacks of water. Okay. And, you know, it that, you know, compartmentalized into all of these little multicellular compartments, you know, but we're basically, you know, ⁓ sacks of water. and ⁓ and so understanding how light and and and and sound vibration interact with water and understanding the role that you know what what the true role of information. Okay. Yeah, you know, we you know finding out, you know, where is the information? that you need you know the DNA and you know whether you're talking about junk DNA or you know which is not junk DNA or you're talking about you know gene coding DNA. I mean all of that is really the most visible, concrete form of information, but that's that's not you know that that's not the level at which ⁓ I I think that we should be trying to bring about change. Right. it it's it's it's like it's like trying to do surgery with a sledgehammer. Yeah. Yeah. And y you know, and and so so I'm interested in things that are really more about ⁓ restoring balance and harmony and and allowing the the wisdom of the the body to then engage in its own healing processes. Yeah, you know, it's it's and so So that's one thing I'm interested in. But the other thing I'm interested in is, I mean, some of these kids have these abilities that I've ⁓ heard about anecdotally. And if I could if I could capture that, spend enough time to sp with them to actually get some experimental protocol down to prove, you know, a whole different paradigm. then that's what that's that's what I want to do. ⁓ it'll ru it'll revolutionize it will revolutionize things the same way that Einstein revolutionized things a hundred years ago. My goodness. And that's exciting too because that's what inner science is all about is ⁓ changing the paradigm of what healthcare is all about and bringing forward this evolutionary perspective and to study the non material. That's what we have to study. And consciousness is is changing and you're a pioneer for it. And, you know, we fund it. So please look into some funding. And that's what our our whole community is all about, this type of stuff being ⁓ widespread through humanity. Yeah. Well that I would really love to yeah, I would really love to know more about getting funding because because really, you know, to say ⁓ One of the things that's fascinating to me is if you think about ⁓ what I just said, okay, you know, about information. Okay. So there's information in words. Mm-hmm. And and so so you have these traditions like the Hindus have of saying mantras. So what they're doing is they're combining the information contained within that word with the vibration that you know the voice creates, which is, you know, you know, so you're you're sending that vibration throughout your body. Right. And you're delivering that information, and that becomes a ⁓ an anecdote to you know, whatever it is that mantra is specifically ⁓ designed to do. And to me, I mean, that is fascinating. Yeah, you know, it goes along with, you know, like Omoto's work with, you know, you know Yeah. And, you know, I you know, the effect on water of Yes. ⁓ and and so then you you you have to realize it it's it's ⁓ You we have to really think about then, you know, the implications too beyond all of that in terms of like how are you what information are you taking in? Exactly. And because we're living in this information age where you have information at your fingertips, you know, twenty four seven unless the internet goes down. and and and a lot of it is very toxic information. Yeah. And that it's our genes that are receiving this information. The epigenetics are affected by the environment. And the environment in our body are our thoughts and the information that we consume and the information we bring in. And really, the best pharmacy is right here. We we have it all. So programming that information as to what we want to happen and to be able to study that and to prove it. I mean, as we know, science is kind of behind it, it can only measure things. It's not very good at measuring things like gravity and consciousness and things like that, but it's gonna get there. And in the meantime, I think having examples, even the N of one, figuring out how we can show enough evidence to to let people know to open their minds to believe in possibility. And that's exactly what Inner Science Research Fund is doing. So we would love to work with you more in the future. We would love to fund some of your research, and we would love to have you back on the podcast again. Because I'm sure there's so much more that we didn't put. I think we're just scratching the surface of where we can go with all of this. And, you know, it's it's it really is just the beginning because ⁓ I think the world is so ready for this. I we published a paper or Dr. Joe published a paper with UC San Diego in Nature in ⁓ communication biology, and it's over a hundred and fifty thousand accesses to this paper. So the world is ready. And like the telepathy tapes being on Joe Rogan, I mean. The world is just begging for this to to come to fruition, and the research needs to be there to quantify that it what's possible, I think. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Diane Hennessy. I don't think you have to be psychic to know that that was a great interview. ⁓ my goodness. She's so knowledgeable. She has so much information in there. And we've just scratched the the surface of where we can go. Absolutely. I so want to have her back and and dive into so many of those different topics. Yeah. And I love what she talked about as far as near death experiences. And she's had a couple near death experiences herself. That's so cool. Yep. I I love the part where she talked about that that it's not something like psychic abilities isn't a part of the brain that we need to turn on, but it's more about that part that we actually need to turn off. Yeah, and how she went into the right angular gyrus, which is that part of the brain, from what she's saying, that that's how these kids and how you can have outer body experiences is you turn that off. That might be something. that we can do in Dr. Joe's events is like put our attention on turning that off, see if we go out of body. That would be amazing. Without having to do the transcranial, you know, the stimulation with the magnets, just be able to do it by putting our attention elsewhere and quieting down that part of our brain would be amazing. Yeah. If we can do other things by thought alone, I'm sure we can do this one. Yeah. I also loved the part where she talked about like telepathy being kind of Bidirectional. It's not just a send and a receive. And I remember hearing some research being done with dolphins where they were listening or trying to understand dolphin communication and that in the information that's being sent in sonar from one dolphin to another, they're responding. And researchers are actually thinking that the patterns of information of where that those they they interfere with each other is actually where the communication's taking place. So I think that'd be really cool if we could discover that that's How telepathy works, and it isn't just a send and a receive, but this tying together of information, I think that'd be amazing. ⁓ I love that. I love that. And how she talked about, you know, parents when they find out that their kids are telepathic, them being like, ⁓ no, now my kids can, you know, tune into what I'm thinking whenever. But that also allows those parents to become more aware of their thoughts and their feelings. And these kids can't be around people that are incoherent. Or in chaos. They they can sit with people and also observe them when they have heart and brain coherence, from what I understand from what she was saying. Yeah. And I the idea of there being no secrets. I mean, I think that it would be an evolution for humanity is to be in a place where we don't have secrets, but no one cares. Like everybody thinks, ⁓ what if what if they could read my mind? Well, but if we all have an open mind or this ability to communicate in that way, not only would our communication be greater and more effective and faster, but we wouldn't really care. We'd we would understand, ⁓ we're all not that different, it turns out. Yeah, it's so true. And then she talked about the brain being a filter. So if that is the case and if the brain is a filter, then we truly are all connected consciously. So it's really that we're getting in the way of you know, trying to keep our secrets in rather than being able to just connect in the field because the brain is just filtering all that information. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it sounds so beautiful that idea of coherence and being able to get to that state. And I loved how she spoke about that, the the balance and the harmony, like so much effort and so much money and so much energy going into pharmaceuticals and all these drugs to treat various mental disorders when When really, if we can just find a way to do this, our own internal pharmacy through heart and brain coherence, as Dr. Joe teaches, ⁓ or balance and harmony as she talked about. Yeah, and you know what? We're at a place where neuroscience has not been around for very long. And can you imagine where it's gonna go in the next 20 years? What discoveries are gonna happen, not only from people like Diane Hennessy out there, but Joe Dispenza. Inner science that supports all of this. I mean, I think we're just on this amazing trajectory to really understand how powerful we truly are. Absolutely. And for those of you who don't know what inner science is, we fund research on meditation, consciousness, the groundbreaking scientific studies on the physiological and biological effects of these things, meditation and consciousness on the human body. Yeah. And we're our a mission-driven community shifting the paradigm. Of healthcare together. So if you'd like to learn more about us, you can go to our website, inner sciencesearch.org. We call the people who donate to us their catalysts. You can be part of the catalyst community. We would welcome you to join us. If you want to learn more about Dr. Diane Hennessy, you can go to her website, drdianhennessey.com, and check out her book, The ESP Enigma: The Scientific Case for Psychic Phenomenon. And if you order directly from her website, She'll actually sign it for you so you'll get an autographed copy, which I think is super cool. And you know we talked a lot about Dr. Joe Dispenza. So if you want to join us at a future retreat, go to drjo dispensa.com. And if you like this episode and you want to see more of Dr. Diane Hennessy or any of our other guests that are so intriguing, please subscribe to our channel. Yep. We'd love it if you'd leave comments, share with your friends, your family, your colleagues. And we so appreciate you being here today. And we hope you join us on the next podcast. Thanks for being here and we look forward to seeing you in the field. See you there.