Ch 51: Receipts from the Bookshop Author Katie Clapham on Bookshop Life, Odd Customers & Substack

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Look how cute my shirt is.
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And it's so cute.
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You know, normally I like you without a shirt.
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Oh, thank you.
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But I do like this shirt.
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This one's super cute.
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I had to wear it for the show.
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Well, you took it from me.
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Let's let's not forget that part.
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That I almost purchased it.
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That is revisionist history, right?
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Almost purchased it.
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I wasn't told that you almost purchased it until after I purchased it.
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I was about to purchase it.
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Oh, that was the one I was like, you sent me on the podcast mission to go play the game of what are you reading?
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And then I come back and you're like, oh my god.
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I haven't heard a word.
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Look at me.
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You have not mentioned it.
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Look at my shirt.
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You just wanted to rain on my joy.
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At least.
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Okay, so as I was listening, my shirt says Unreliable Narrator.
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I wanted to shout out.
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So I got it at the Getlet Girl Up Book Fair that we went to in Dallas.
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Um, and so the vendor is on Instagram.
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It's shop underscore max M-A-C-S.
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Her name is Stephanie.
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She makes like bookish themed teas and crewnicks, and oh my gosh, I could have spent a whole paycheck there.
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She had so many cute things.
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She has some new stuff that's launching.
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But I was so excited.
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It was so perfect for this episode because we're interviewing Katie Clapham, who owns a bookshop.
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I know.
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Uh, and so we're gonna be talking about that.
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Um, we're gonna be talking about her new book, but an unreliable narrator.
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I'm like, Maybe you could whip it.
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Maybe you should freak it out.
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What do you mean, me?
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No, I'm thinking maybe you should have gotten this shirt because even just in this story, you've been an unreliable narrator.
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Have I ever about the order of events and have I ever in our life been an unreliable narrator?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Okay.
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Um but super cute.
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All her stuff is precious.
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She go check it out.
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Tell me more about the shirt though, and and like how I can borrow it though.
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I don't think you can, but you could go find yourself something else and get that.
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She does have a really cute one right now that it's like a ghost sitting on a bench with a book and it says, I just want to read my silly little book.
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Oh, that was so bad too.
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I think she sold out.
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She was actually relaunching another.
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I'm glad we had to leave early.
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I know.
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We would have spent so much money.
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That whole event was amazing.
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Like just I mean, I feel like the theme of today is supporting this month or something like that.
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Yeah, the end of September, yeah, supporting bookstores, supporting small businesses, book vendors, bookish vendors, all the things.
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I know that's like the theme of the show today.
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So we're I'm a bookish person, and you can uh support me in some very specific ways.
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Yes, what a surprise.
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I'll let you turn my pages.
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I'll let you uh check out my table of contents.
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How about uh we do a little dual POV if you know what I'm talking about?
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You know what I mean?
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Okay, thanks.
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I'm working on it.
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I'm Andrea.
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Um I'm Matt.
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Yes, welcome.
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We're a married couple.
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Uh, we've been together over 25 years and married for over 20.
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We've got two grown-ish boys and uh started reading romance novels together as a way to spend time.
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And Matt, who has a background in writing as in uh his advertising career, said, Why don't we try writing one and uh start a podcast to document the process?
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And that is what this is.
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So thank you for joining.
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It has grown and expanded over time.
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We started playing games and talking about authors we love, and then we started interviewing authors we love.
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You're interviewing somebody that I am so excited about.
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I know.
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You want to tell about what a fun book.
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So she has a great Substack where she runs a small bookstore, independent bookstore, little seaside town in England, an England coast, and she kind of just blurbs all of her daily interactions with folks and then puts it out every week.
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Um, and so they're quick little bite-sized interactions, some longer, some shorter, but they're always fun, and she has the best books.
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And now she's turned it into a book, or it's basically a year.
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It's called Receipts from the Bookshop, a bookseller's year in an English Seaside Town.
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And so the whole book is basically like January to December, her uh, you know, experience.
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So there's just these little blurbs and short interactions and observances of the clientele.
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It's a lot of fun.
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You know, on our theme, and we're gonna be talking to Katie here in a minute.
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I thought, what if my wife owned a bookstore?
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It sounds like a dream.
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Okay.
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And so I think you need practice, like Katie does, selling books, you know, to to get to guests that come in.
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So I'm gonna play a couple guests.
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Oh goodness.
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So, um, congratulations, you own a bookshop.
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Oh, the lighting is great.
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Oh my gosh.
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I want to decorate it all.
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Oh gosh, it's not man Mike.
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It's gonna be yeah, it's gonna be like whimsical.
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And um you need to sell books to these different characters, okay?
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Okay.
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Oh, somebody came in.
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Hi, welcome to Ana Whimsy.
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Hey, hashtag my books.
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It's called Ana Whimsy.
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I like your store.
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Where's the Welcome?
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Thank you for welcoming me.
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I'm looking for a hammer.
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Do you have any hammers?
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Like an actual hammer?
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Like I'm looking for a hammer.
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Is there or maybe a are you working on something?
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Yes.
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I'm building a bookshelf.
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Okay.
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So I figured.
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I mean, we have bookshelves here, but they're not really for sale.
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I just need I think you could go to the hardware shop a few doors down.
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I bet they'll have what you need.
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But I can sell you books to go on your bookshelf once you build it.
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You seem like a very capable man.
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I'm very excited to see your creation.
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Never mind.
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Well, it was great meeting you.
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Come back to find some books for your bookshelf.
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Good luck.
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Hi.
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Welcome.
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How are you doing?
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I'm doing well.
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How are you?
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What's up?
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What's up, girl?
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How are you living?
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Living large, living the dream.
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How's this bookstore treating you?
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Uh, it's great.
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It's my favorite.
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You know, maybe I want to peruse your shelves.
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Okay.
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Let me uh show you where they are.
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What what and let me point out the security cameras that I have in every corner.
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What is this one called?
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The Kama Sutra?
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What's this one about?
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I don't know.
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You should take it home and read it.
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Would you like to buy it?
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Uh, can I get a discount?
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For what?
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What qualifies you for a discount?
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Maybe we can do a trade.
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Maybe we can do some kind of trade girl.
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Okay.
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You know, services.
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Oh, I don't I don't do trades.
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Okay, well.
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You don't seem to be selling too many books today.
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I gotta go.
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I'm not sad that you're leaving, she thinks in her head.
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I'm looking for a book.
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Okay.
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It's a library.
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It's a bookstore.
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It's not a library.
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It's mine.
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I'm looking for a book.
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It's a special book.
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It's about.
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It's about.
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I can't even tell you, it's so good.
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You're just gonna have to guess.
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I'm just on the edge of my seat waiting to find out.
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Tell people about this book.
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It's so good.
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Okay.
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It has a pop in it.
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Okay.
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A pop.
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And then there's the kids who jump on that pop.
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Oh, okay.
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Do they hop on the pop?
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Why?
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Deep into tell.
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Uh-huh.
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You don't want people finding out about this thing?
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It's by like a Mr.
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or um.
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Sir, I'm so excited to help you find this book.
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So trust me in my own store one more time.
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It's a secret book.
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You're gonna be unable to shh.
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That's not very kind.
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Customer servicing.
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We reserve the right to deny service to anyone, and you're getting real close to finding out what that feels like.
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So uh that's uh great.
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Thanks for your help today.
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I may uh go find my pops and ops somewhere else.
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Best of luck.
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Okay.
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That's all I got.
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See, there you go.
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You don't seem to be selling a lot of books.
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No, but I did have some interesting customers.
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I think it would be a lot of material for KD Clapham.
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You didn't sell too many books.
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Like now we're poor.
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You see.
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And but I'm alive and I didn't take crap from no one.
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That's yeah.
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That's true.
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I mean I'm rich in the world.
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You basically just experience retail work, I think.
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Yeah, and that's why I'm in education, because we're just revered in that space.
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So that's true.
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We're never treated poorly.
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Maybe Katie can give us some tips.
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I know.
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She'll tell us how to do it right, how to find the way.
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Everyone, please enjoy our interview with receipts from the bookshop, a bookseller's year and an English inside town author, Katie Clapham.
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Today we are welcoming Katie Clapham, writer, bookseller, and co-owner of Storytellers Inc., the independent bookshop she opened with her mom in Lytham St.
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Anne's in 2010.
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Katie was named a bookseller Rising Star in 2011 and a young bookseller of the year in 2012.
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And Storytellers Inc.
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has been nominated for Industry Award seven times.
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She's also the author of several books for children and young adults.
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Her newest book turns the lens on the shop itself.
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Receipts from the bookshop follows one year behind the counter: the customers, the dogs, the weather, the deliveries, the mysterious book requests, and the small sales that can decide whether a quiet day feels hopeful or slightly ridiculous.
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The book grew from her weekly Substack dispatch, now more than 150 installments deep, with over 12,000 subscribers.
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And Katie, we talked to a lot of people who write books, and I'm so happy to talk to someone who actually puts them in people's hands.
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Welcome to our next chapter.
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Thank you.
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Welcome to the show.
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Thanks so much for having me.
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Yes, I do have one quick question to start us off.
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I know you like to, in your Substack uh dispatches, give the weather report.
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And as Texans living in a place where it is just hot, like that is the entire weather report.
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That's the season.
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That is the season.
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I want to know from a place that has seasons.
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What is the weather report today where you are?
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Well, today is a bank holiday Monday, which means everyone is off work and it means everyone plans to do something nice, like go for a walk outside or have a barbecue.
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So of course it is tipping it down with rain today.
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Absolutely.
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Chucking it down.
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It's really windy, um, and it's just getting darker by the second, so I'm expecting this to be warm any minute now because I am actually going to a barbecue after the we would take the rain.
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Uh yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, we'll take some rain now.
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It's been rough around here.
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Over a hundred degrees Fahrenheit every day for weeks.
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And there's no end in sight.
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So yeah.
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A little cloudiness in rain sounds amazing.
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Oh, maybe a bit hungry.
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I would love it.
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Yeah.
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I would love it if you could tell us a little bit about your journey.
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I know uh you know, maybe it's just starting with university and and that sort of thing, and and walk us through just how you started there and your love for books, where that started.
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Okay.
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So at university I was doing creative writing and English literature, and then I spent a further two years doing um a poetry, like a practical poetry um masters, um, and I was doing some editorial work for an orthopaedic journal at that time, which was a bit of a strange combination of jobs, but that's that's what I was doing.
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And then I got to the end of my master's degree, and it was time to make a change, you know, new job, new place or new something.
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Um, and I decided to um just quit my job and leave my flat in London and go for a bit of a soul searching adventure.
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Um, but I I didn't go that far.
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I went to the Isle of Skye, which is in Scotland, um, a little um island in Scotland, and I stayed there from January through till April, um, which is the coldest, darkest time.
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Um, and um and I just spent a lot of time writing and reading and seeing what it was like to try and be a full-time writer without actually being an earning full-time writer.
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I was just sort of living on some savings that I had.
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Um, and and just sort of getting that sense of whether I could get up and write every day and what that would feel like.
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Um, but it was uh it was a lovely kind of experience, but it was it did feel a bit holiday-ish, you know.
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.320
I'd rented a sort of a holiday cabin.
00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:59.519
It didn't really feel like being a working writer, it felt like being on a an extended holiday, but I enjoyed it.
00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:11.679
Um and it helped me decide that I didn't want to go back to London, I didn't want to go back to my editorial job, and I I I'd made the decision that I was gonna move back to um St.
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:28.000
Anne's where my parents live, and try and get a job that would be a better balance of things with whilst also pursuing writing, something that wasn't gonna take up my, you know, all of my time and all of my life and sort of mental capacity.
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:33.919
Um so I had a couple of little part-time jobs that were very nice, um, and I did some more freelance editorial work.
00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:49.039
And then my mum, um, who'd taken voluntary redundancy from many decades of corporate management jobs that she hated, uh, said she would like to have a shop um and she would quite like to have a kind of kitchenware shop.
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.480
And I said, Um, okay, I I'm not that involved.
00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:53.600
Okay, alright.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:59.279
That that's that sounds like a nice project for you, but I don't think I would be interested in doing that with you.
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.320
Um and she said, Well, really, the shop's the thing I want.
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.639
Um, what kind of shop would you be interested in?
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:09.039
And I said, Well, if we if we're talking books, then maybe I'll stay and do that with you.
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.840
Um, and then it sounds a bit reckless, but it was about nine months later we opened a bookshop.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:24.159
Having never worked in a bookshop or worked in a shop between us, really, that um it was all a bit um it was just kind of everything fell into place.
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:29.360
You know, we found a a premises near our house that felt like it could be a bookshop.
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:39.200
So we had a conversation with landlord there, and he turned out to be a good guy, and it was it every each next step just kind of made just enough sense for us to keep going.
00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:47.679
Um so uh we did it, and then the plan was that I would be in the shop but but be writing.
00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.879
And for the first five years of being a bookseller, I didn't write anything at all.
00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:56.399
I'm like, yeah, you uh exactly thought you let me get some space to write, let me open a business.
00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:01.759
Yeah, it was it it didn't quite work out as I imagined it in my head.
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:11.919
Turned out being a bookseller was really a full-time occupation and also something that you go home and think about and wake up, think about, and in in the middle of the night you wake up and think about it too.
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:13.039
So yeah, absolutely.
00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:20.480
Yeah, we and we really connected with that when we were reading a little bit about the story in your bio of the journey to the bookshop.
00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:23.919
Um of the podcast, we kind of started it the same thinking.
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.320
We wanted to write a romance novel together.
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:31.679
And so um, you know, my background was in scientific writing when you talked about writing for the orthopedic journal.
00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:33.200
I was like, oh, science writing.
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:36.080
It's very, very different from the narrative writing.
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:41.519
Um, you know, he's in advertising as a copywriter, creative writer, you know, creative director.
00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:51.279
And so he's been like trying to teach me a little bit about the writing, but then the podcast became so much of what we've done, and it's evolved and grown, and you know, getting us connected with authors.
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:57.360
And so I was curious, you know, like you said, you had the idea of, oh, I'm I'm gonna start this so that I can write.
00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:03.279
And then the bookstore kind of became the distraction, but then the distraction funneled you back to writing.
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:04.639
Yeah.
00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.240
What was that that journey like?
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:29.679
Aaron Ross Powell It was definitely a um decision I had to make um because I'd thrown myself into bookselling and you know I'd joined um like committees with the booksellers' association and got involved in all different parts of the industry that was so new and exciting to me because it was such a good way of connecting with all these interesting people, and I was enjoying all that so much that I really forgot that I was writing.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:39.200
Um and then after kind of it was around it all uh all a few things happened all around the same time that made me kind of reassess what we were doing.
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:59.360
You know, we decided to um we were a children's bookshop when we opened, and then five years in we decided to expand into adult fiction and we also uh well adult, you know, um become a general independent bookshop, which meant we would have adult fiction and non-fiction and and really have uh a range of everything rather than just children's books.
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:10.480
Um that also gave us kind of permission to stop um kind of half we we were sort of half an an activity centre for children as well.
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:22.480
You know, we were putting on lots of free events for children, free story times, all these things that were taking a lot of our time, costing us a lot of money and not actually being rewarded with many sales.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:36.880
So by sort of getting rid of our activity space in the shop that we had and and moving everything around, opening the adult section, it meant that we could become a regular bookshop rather than trying to be this hybrid sort of thing.
00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:47.359
Um I could stop kind of uh sending myself out on missions to schools and giving out free all this free time that I was giving up.
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:54.960
I also you know, I also got a dog, I had a baby, we had some family medical stuff happening, you know, very busy.
00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:03.839
Things all happened that just make you reassess, and I thought this is the time when I have to make a decision about what what I'm intending to do.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:04.240
Yeah.
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:10.559
Um so I I settled myself back into writing for some other part of the week.
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:35.839
I mean, I was at home with a baby, I couldn't go anywhere, but um I was uh it was a good it was a good full sort of pause in me being at the bookshop full time and that was a a nice moment to to reassess and then I I I you know knuckled down on the writing and I got an agent and started publishing children's books and yeah, it's it was a good but it but it did it was a made.
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:38.160
It had it I did have to it's a real decision.
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:39.039
Yeah.
00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:49.839
It sounds like a lot of change and a lot of you know learnings over the the last 15 years and then just starting something with your your family, you know.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:19:00.240
I would love to know as a person who I don't know if I could start a business with my family, um you know, what has you know, mother and daughter learned about each other over the last 15 years?
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:02.640
Grown and changed, yeah.
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:07.920
Well, I'm an only child, so we've always been quite a close family anyway.
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:20.480
Um but then I did, you know, I did leave home to go to university in London uh at 18 and I was away for the best part of three years and I'd moved out and I hadn't really intended to ever move back home.
00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:26.480
Um I thought I was gonna be staying in London, so I'd sort of made the decision to leave.
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:32.559
Um, but not because there was anything wrong with here, it just felt like more exciting opportunities to be in London.
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:33.759
It's natural, yeah.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:40.640
And actually, if you when it when it came down to it, if I wanted the space to write, you can't live in London.
00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.599
If you want to work less, you have to move out.
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:44.480
Absolutely.
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.079
Um that was one of the decisions um that I had to make.
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:55.039
Um but m when we opened the bookshop, me and Mum were there full-time together all the time.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:05.599
Um and we were open kind of well, six days a week when we first opened the shop just to sort of find our footing and how to see what how what was sort of working.
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:09.759
And then we cut back and we we worked out that we could have a bit more time off.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:21.680
Um and as the years have sort of gone on, and with me having my daughter and my mum's mum has now moved to the area and needs some caring, we now work separately completely.
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:29.440
We are hardly ever in the bookshop together because we've realized that the point of working for ourselves is to have time to do the rest of our lives.
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:30.079
Absolutely.
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:36.480
So only one of us needs uh the other person can be available to do what else that they want to prioritize.
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.960
So we're at a very nice place now where um we we don't we're not there.
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:43.759
I mean, there are the odd days or event where we'll both be there.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:44.079
Yeah.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.240
And because it's such a small town and we both live very close to the bookshop, yeah.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:55.680
We will see each other in the bookshop anyway, because we'll be going into the hospital and you can't really walk past the door and not say hello.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.480
So we will in and see each other.
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:03.200
But no, we're not often actually working in the shop together anymore.
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:14.000
Um that's so nice, like you said, to be able to as time uh goes on and needs change to be able to evolve and and yeah, just make it what you need um for for the time.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:14.880
That's beautiful.
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:20.000
No one is gonna be as generous with the time off to be with your daughter from her grandmother.
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:24.240
Like she absolutely of course spend time with my grandmaby.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:25.680
Yes, no, I love it.
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:26.240
I love it.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:28.079
That's what drew me to your story.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:39.839
Something we talk about a lot on the podcast is that um a curvy path is still a path, and that we are all doing our best to make our way and you know, try to follow our dreams and like follow the things that make us happy.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:42.880
And I think you've done that in a way that's inspirational, really.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:48.720
And you've turned it both into something you know you can do and love as a business, but also you can keep your writing going.
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.000
And I guess you let's do that, let's talk about the book a little bit.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:54.640
So uh receipts from the bookshop.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.519
Um I would love to just hear you talk about it.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:01.039
Like just tell me, you know, tell me about the book and your own words.
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:09.359
Yeah, so it's the the book as it stands as a book in a bookshop is um a a calendar year of my diaries.
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:15.759
Um so it's January to December um and it's I tend to only write one day a week.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:19.519
So it's kind of a it's the the the diaries are one day of a week.
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:23.119
It's always a Friday because that's the day that I'm in the bookshop and I write the diary.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:25.920
But it started on Substack.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:36.640
I was writing these live diaries of my day in the bookshop every Friday and I really do just open the draft on my computer when I open the bookshop.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:38.400
I type it in as it happens.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:44.400
So if someone's in the shop and they're browsing I'm probably writing about that they are walking around the shop browsing.
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:51.119
And then I get to the end of the day and I cash up the till and I just send out the newsletter with everything that's happened that day.
00:22:51.200 --> 00:23:02.559
I mean obviously sometimes I am I'm careful about what what what I say and I anonymise people and it's you know it's a it's a kind and generous window onto my day.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:07.839
And I'm it's not really about my personal life, it's about the people that are in the bookshop.
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:32.559
And I'd been doing that for a few well really it was only a couple of months that I've been doing it and my agent who represents me for children's books has said we need to talk about this as a book because it's so readable and I really like the format and I think we could put a proposal together for a nonfiction book which is not something that had occurred to me at all.
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:36.079
It definitely wasn't something that I was secretly plotting.
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.960
It really was not in my mind.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:52.559
So I was quite surprised that she said that because I thought I'm not sure how interesting this is beyond you know it's going to be a bit samey the same sort of things happen every week it's very local it's very small it's very quiet.
00:23:52.720 --> 00:24:01.039
I only had a couple of I think I had 2,000 subscribers at the time that she said that this is something we should think about.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:05.759
So it certainly wasn't that it had already had a huge audience or anything like that.
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:13.279
But I trust her I trust her on on everything and I knew that if she thought there was something in it then I should think about it too.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.839
I did leave her hanging for a few months because I thought this isn't really a serious thing.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:41.200
Take you some time yeah but she did chase me on it and eventually um we uh we we talked about it and yeah I put together the proposal for my first nonfiction book and we had um a UK um it went to auction in the UK and there was uh three publishers that that that wanted it which was all completely surprising to me.
00:24:41.519 --> 00:25:03.200
Wow and and then I thought that that was the end of the story to then have this now this US publication is considering I had I had never thought about it being a book I certainly had never thought that it would be published in the well let me let me jump in here and tell everybody listening and watching Katie's being so humble.
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:04.720
This book is amazing.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:13.279
The stories are so fun and I think you talked about it being small and quaint like that's the thing that draws people into me is like you're there with you.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:17.119
You get to see what it's like to be in the community in the culture.
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:23.200
And I just it's the thing that hooked me and you know as continuing to read your Substack and that sort of thing.
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:27.920
So I appreciate you playing it down but everybody out there you've got to read it it's so fun.
00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:30.960
Yes it's out September 8th in the States.
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:31.599
Yeah.
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:43.920
I'm curious too as the the notoriety of the Substack has grown do you find people coming in with hopes to be characters of the day or of the week it is it's become very funny now.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:52.319
People have visited me from so far away I can't believe I mean that this when I say far away this is very different when we're talking about the UK to the U.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:57.519
When people have traveled you know a couple of hours to me that's that seems like a really big deal to me.
00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:57.920
Yeah.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:07.599
But um the yeah people have come to visit me people have um organised trips you know they've they've detoured trips so that they can come via St.
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:30.079
Anne's to see me which really makes me laugh I've had letters um I've had I mean just last week I had a letter from Tasmania I had um wow I had a letter from California um people are sending me you know proper posts to say that they've they're reading about me and they're they they want to sort of say hello in the bookshop.
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:50.480
And yeah lots of people have been incredibly um supportive and interested and you know even when I sometimes think oh I've not done a very good newsletter this week not not much has happened you know people send me the nicest notes to say we're just happy to be here and we'd enjoy it.
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:52.000
Yes just checking in with you.
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:59.039
So I do feel a bit like I'm kind of a bit of a I'm in like my own little sitcom now and I just have to people choose.
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:16.880
And I feel like with the the evolution of social media and this these very curated lives and content I think people crave the mundane and the daily just the beauty of daily life and just you know the community that you've built and created.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:22.480
I think that we all crave definitely a you know a romantic view of it.
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:31.039
I would I would love to hear you talk a little bit about like what's true what's the romantic view of the book store like versus the reality sometimes.
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:40.480
I mean that's the thing I am dispelling the myth a bit on sometimes I know people love to imagine so many people would say that that's their dream job to have a bookshop.
00:27:40.640 --> 00:28:09.759
And I can't sometimes if I feel myself get a bit cynical and start saying oh well you know sometimes it's very boring and sometimes it's very quiet and you're not going to make very much money and you might lose money and sometimes you might meet some you know a few unpleasant people but that's just public retail any but every time I find myself getting sort of hearing if I hear myself say too many of those things I have to stop myself and say no come on.
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:13.359
It is actually one of the nicest things that you can do.
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:17.279
It's one of the books are one of the nicest things that you can be surrounded by.
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:21.039
A bookshop is a beautiful place to spend any amount of time.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:25.440
So I I am incredibly lucky to go there to work.
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:30.559
I'm incredibly lucky to be a person who works with books and talks to people about books.
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:42.240
And yeah even if it's damp and cold and can feel a bit miserable in the middle of January it's still not you know it's I we can't compare it to something that is genuinely terrible.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:46.480
Because it it's just it's well and I think two things can be true.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:29:11.839
You know I mean it can have it I mean every job, every career it's like you're gonna have your still business is still you still have to have its ups and downs and the things you love and the things you don't but yeah there is so much person who's also started his own business, you know there are ups and downs and fun parts and things that are my strength and not and I'm wondering too has it changed as a writer how you describe your characters?
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:24.079
Like now when you go back to your fictional stories and things like that or if you're writing children's books, you know, does it change the way that you capture people and the way that you describe these insights that you're getting when you're writing your your dispatch?
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:37.039
It's a good question but I don't think it has because I think and I think the reason that the this has worked the the way that it has anyway is that I am quite charmed by real people anyway.
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:48.640
So I've always been I mean it's not always the best uh thing for a children's writer to be constantly kind of rejecting fantasy and magic over the real world.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:51.599
It's it's that's been problematic as a children's writer.
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:57.759
But I am I'm quite um passionate about real people and the real world.
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:10.559
I'm not really interested in fantasy situations because I like real life and I like the quaint I like I like the quirkiness of real life and I like the unpredictability of real people.
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:22.640
So no if anything it's just made me more determined to kind of be true to that because it's it's real world is even stranger you know than you think it is.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:23.519
It's even funnier.
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:24.559
It's even sillier.
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:39.039
Yeah absolutely yeah and I guess you know as people I was I was thinking about this like as readers close the book, they finish the book and they walk by a the bookshop in their town like what do you what what do you want them left thinking?
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:40.960
Like what do you want them thinking about?
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:54.640
I mean I it was a really fine line to tread when writing the book that I was not telling people how to live their lives and t not telling people not telling people how they have to spend their money and things like that.
00:30:54.880 --> 00:31:17.200
But it is a very important message that I understand people can easily forget and it is my job if it you know while I have this platform to gently remind people that if they love bookshops as much as they say they do, because people love to tell you how much they love bookshops, they want to tell you uh over and over again that they adore them.
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:30.960
But that's wonderful but you do have to then follow through with the action because bookshops cannot survive on you know love as much as we would l like to be able to it does not keep the lights on.
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:50.960
So if you're going to sort of be evangelical about bookshop please then also buy from a bookshop because I meet a lot of people who come in the bookshop to tell me very emphatically that they love bookshops and they will do this you know on a fairly regular basis but I know for a fact that they aren't buying their books from us.
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:56.880
So it's it's sort it's a bookshop is kind of always on a countdown.
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:04.799
I if you don't port it, it will go, it will close and it won't be a you know it won't be a surprise to the people on the inside.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:06.160
It will be a surprise to people on the street.
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.119
They'll say oh that bookshop it always looked so beautiful.
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:15.599
I won't understand why it didn't stay open in business but because you have to sell books to s to stay in business.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:22.559
So I hope people who read the book don't feel you know in any way scolded or preached to or anything like that.
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:36.480
But I hope that they do remember that um the bookshops do uh bookshops everywhere do need absolutely and I I think you being so transparent and vulnerable about that and sharing that is so powerful.
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:58.000
Um one of the the stories we'd come across is the day that you guys hit the uh you were named uh the seventh best bookshop in the country and then that same day financially wasn't such a winning pounds the 16 pounds that I mean it was a misunderstanding that we were called the seventh best bookshop in the in the w in the country anyway which is very funny.
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:03.519
But no takings were I mean it's takings can be absolutely pitiful.
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:08.400
And it's luckily it's all part of a bigger picture.
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:20.319
You're gonna have some good days and some bad days but we are a small business um so it's it's not um that we are employing hundreds of people and a day like this would absolutely crush us as a business.
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:30.000
But it's it does mean that too many of those days you have to start thinking about how you're going to afford the rent for the next year and things like that.
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:35.920
And that's when it becomes unviable and as soon as the business isn't viable it can't be there anymore.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.960
So it's it's it's just it's just reality.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:43.119
You know we're not too romantic about that side of things.
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:51.039
If if if the bookshop gets to a point where it can't stay open it's because there isn't enough call for a bookshop in in the town.
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:57.920
So it's it it's it's got to be a mutual agreement between the the bookshop and the people who live around it.
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:20.880
And I think it's so important that you've brought attention to that for readers so that that's something that they they think about when they go to order that next book or you know m put that pre pre-sale in the same vein I know we've seen it's always very easy to read isn't it's not like a terrible character failing if you forget that.
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:22.800
It's not it doesn't mean you're a terrible person.
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:26.960
It can be a genuine you know people are busy they have busy lives.
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:36.159
If they forget and they just they remember that book and they tap pre-order on Amazon and they because they're in that moment that's that's not you know you're not a terrible person for doing that.
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:47.920
But if you have the time and the headspace to remember you could just do that at the bookshop then that that is the difference between the bookshops being there and not being there.
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:51.440
So absolutely and that awareness is is critical.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:52.559
Yeah no I love it.
00:34:52.880 --> 00:35:05.840
Yeah I mean we're seeing a rise in you know people in on book talk we're seeing the rise of more social media and people really getting involved and I think you're kind of at the forefront of a lot of these trends and being able to see and see what's going on.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:19.199
And you know we've been talk we talk a lot about romance here and so I would love to kind of get your POV really quick on what you've seen in the romance genre over the last X years that you've been, you know, selling books and and how that's been how that's changed.
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:26.639
Well um well as I say we are a very small bookshop so in we don't have categories in our shop.
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:30.719
The fiction is not divided into categories like romance or fantasy and crime and things like that.
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:43.360
It's all bundled into just fiction which makes it um it's sort of it's because it's a very personal curation um and books are kind of there because I want them to be there.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:47.199
It's my my shop and I stock it the way that I want it to be.
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:56.960
So I like that um sort of I like a bookshop to be discoverable, you know, and and get there and find things.
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:12.079
But certainly you know there's been some huge romance trends um and um they the the what's interesting is the romance customers that we have they are very specific about what they want.
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:27.920
So we in a way don't need to fill a shelf with gambles of things that people might want because the customers who want those things come in and order those books and they order all of them by you know by title and they tell you specifically the ones they want.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:33.199
And they're not actually looking to discover anything else because they already have their shopping list.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:45.440
And I think that's quite um that's quite familiar with kind of um genre readers people who are very um sort of well read in their area they they know what they want.
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:56.719
So they come in with their list and they want to order the next five books in their series and that seems to happen with the romance um and the fantasy series and um you know detective crime fiction and things like that.
00:36:56.880 --> 00:37:02.800
So you we don't kind of dedicate a lot of space to me taking up on on things in in that way.
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:08.480
I mean the ones that have been on the big TV series did we sell loads of heated rivalry?
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:44.800
We didn't actually it was not something that related hugely to book sales whereas a series um there's some been some romanticy series that have come in in those um much more uh sort of uh beautiful editions you know hardbacks with oh yeah oh yeah ribbon bookmarks foiled covers sometimes they come with nice bits of POS things like that is when people will seek out a bookshop to buy to buy the book um or they'll be so taken with it when they have it in their hands that they then can't leave it.
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:53.840
Something like a paperback like you know heated a heated rivalry paperback chances are they thought about it in the middle of the night and they ordered it and they had it the next morning.
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:54.239
Right.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:38:18.400
So it's it's it's funny what's um what sort of moves in the in the bookshop and I think particularly in an independent bookshop like ours where we are selling full price the RRP um that's the that is going to be the cost to the customer it's can be a bit of a it can be sometimes where we lose out on those mass market paperbacks because we cannot compete on the prices for those things.
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:25.360
People have them in their hands and then they can't put them down.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:34.639
Have you seen changes in the the readers themselves like with with the book talk, Bookstigram, things like that?
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:45.440
Have you seen like more young readers or you know um just any changes I guess in the way the actual demographics like the demographics and like who who this this movement is reaching.
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:57.679
I feel like just from my perspective I'm in education I was a teacher and now I'm a counselor and so um I've just seen um I guess more books in kids' hands than uh in previous years.
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:28.800
I'm so thankful to see it growing I'm wondering are you seeing the same thing yeah on your side of the counter well because we started as a children's bookshop we've had customers you know who've moved with us from being a children's bookshop and they were there because they were children and now they're buying adult books from us because they're not adults which is such a lovely thing to see and you know you get to see that generational change in their reading um which is such a privilege and so um it's so nice to have been part of their lives in that way.
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:56.000
But we have the the the things the shelves that have been that have changed over the um the lifetime of the bookshop for example are we we have a shelf that is those the books that sort of bridge the gap between children's picture books and children's fiction it the you know those colour readers that have maybe have a few stories in or they're a they're a bit longer um but they are a small format book.
00:39:56.079 --> 00:40:25.840
I mean we have a whole shelf that is dedicated to those and that was a shelf that didn't really exist when we first opened the bookshop and now is one of the most kind of um visited shelves in the children's department um we have the graphic novels and the comic strip books which again is the US we're already much better at this this has not been a sort of more recent development for you but in the UK they've been a kind of the last it's growing it's it's become a huge area of the shop.
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:53.679
So we now have it in the main shop floor you know it's in one of the really prominent shelves and it's really um regularly visited um shelf and also the translated Asian fiction is now got oh yes where it's even though I talked about we don't pull out certain genres right we have a permanent translated Asian fiction display in the shop because that is now an area that some customers um only shop from.
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.719
You know we have customers who only go back to that shelf.
00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:10.159
So it's it's less sort of I have I have less of a kind of view on the how the customers have changed um but I know what I am now stocking as kind of a regular as a regular thing.
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:16.079
Yeah absolutely I want to take our younger son as so many of the things you're talking about.
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:24.239
Like these are all the books he loves and he's just been in that like you said kind of that transition from the picture books to the chapters and the in-between and the graphic novels.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:34.159
Aaron Ross Powell I mean it just makes me think there's definitely an arc there of like starting as a genre reader of some kind that you're really into X and then starting to read things that challenge you beyond that.
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:48.880
You know and I I think it's reading is a gateway drug, you know however you can get in and find your next big read and that is so cool to see the generations like you said to see them grow up and stay in the shop and I love it.
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:53.920
Yes yeah do you mind if we play a quick game with you?
00:41:54.719 --> 00:42:08.480
Pick my brain a little bit pick your brain just a little bit um basically the thought here is what if I could give you something like a place, a time and situation and then you can give me the right book for that moment.
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:09.599
What would you recommend?
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:10.559
What would you recommend?
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:25.679
You know of course there's no wrong right answers um just anything that pops to your mind you know as the uh uh institutional knowledge comes forth here so I've got a couple situations here and um and just whatever comes to your head.
00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:26.159
Okay.
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:40.159
So if we had a place of let's say an airport gate and a time of a three hour delay and then the situation would be a book that takes over quickly enough to make you forget you're still in an airport.
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.079
So something might grab you quickly.
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.000
Okay suck you in a little bit.
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:48.800
I would definitely be reaching for um a good thriller in this situation.
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:55.519
Um I like I like you know as something that's gonna be jumped in from the first page.
00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:21.840
So I have a couple of my sort of favorite thriller writers that I always turn to one of them is an Irish writer Catherine Ryan Howard I always look out for her books because she writes really great um she always has a good heroine um at the centre of her story and she writes really sensible heroines you know they're not gonna walk into the dark house and not turn the lights on the run upstairs when the killer is on the first floor.
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:26.480
No she's she they don't do silly things so you really get on their side quickly.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:48.239
And also Peter Swanson a Boston writer um who writes great thrillers perfect um you know aeroplane uh ride sort of pace and and yeah definitely you could read one of those in a departure lines you might start looking at people around you quite suspiciously if you're reading one yeah you might feel like you're in the hopefully not miss your flight if you can't do it into it.
00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:49.920
You're like, no I have to finish this book.
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:50.480
Yeah.
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:51.360
I love it.
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:52.159
I love it.
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:53.840
I've got another one for you here.
00:43:54.320 --> 00:44:03.360
What if we were uh a cabin in the rain, a weekend alone and you want the Atmosphere and a little unease, but you still need to sleep.
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:09.280
Yeah, so this is like my this is like me in Sky when I was uh uh in by myself.
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:14.079
Dark and rainy, yeah, and it was so dark and cold and rainy, and I wanted to read something.
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:18.079
I mean, I don't think I would want anything that would make me feel uneasy.
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:25.039
I mean, I do like things that I do like things that make me feel a bit frightened, but I like to read those in the safety of you know my own house.
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:25.679
Yes.
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:31.199
I think if I was in a cabin um in the woods, I would want something deeply comforting.
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:39.840
Um so I might go for some Anpatchet, some someone who's gonna just feel really um just a w a warm hug.
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:47.679
Yeah, I'm gonna feel reassured, I'm gonna feel in well taken care of, and and I'm gonna have some nice dreams.
00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:49.280
I love it.
00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:50.639
Yeah, that's perfect.
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.599
Okay, I've got uh two more quick ones for you here.
00:44:54.159 --> 00:45:06.400
How about a neighborhood book club and the timing is next month's meeting, and the situation is the group has grown bored with agreeing, they want a book book worth arguing about and maybe ending some friendships.
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:07.440
We need something contentious.
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:09.440
What are they gonna uh discuss?
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:15.360
I run I run a big book club um and we have such interesting meetings.
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:20.000
It is absolutely incredible how differently people can feel about the same book.
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:26.320
You know, for some people it is the one of the best books they've ever read, and for other people they did not get on with it at all.
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:34.480
Um a really divisive one that we read recently was Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaughey McConaughey.
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:44.880
Um there was some good opposing opinions on that, even though everyone agreed that you know we'd appreciate the writing, we loved the setting, it was a really interesting setup.
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:47.599
People had different opinions about the ending specifically.
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:50.320
So that is a really good one to have a discussion about.
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:51.199
Oh, I like that.
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:52.800
I like a good ending to argue.
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:53.840
I was gonna say, yeah.
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:58.480
Oh man, that's especially if there's ambiguity in the ending, I feel like with uh Verity.
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:05.760
Um like yesteryear has been a huge topic of discussion recently.
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:07.440
Yeah, no, that's amazing.
00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:09.679
I've got one more quick one for you.
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:18.159
What if you're in the school pickup line and you've got 20 minutes every weekday, but you want to become a reader again after a year, after years away from books.
00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:19.360
What gets you back into it?
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:20.480
What gets you back into it?
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:25.440
See, this is one I'm struggling with a bit more.
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:29.519
Um, because I think, I mean, I love short stories.
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:33.679
I really love reading short stories, but I know that they're kind of the nature of them.
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:41.360
Sometimes they have those kind of ambiguous endings that can frustrate people and they can they don't feel that they get that satisfying ending to a story.
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:42.960
I personally really like that.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:48.800
So I would always short stories for any kind of situation where I'm gonna have a short amount of time.
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:49.199
Yeah.
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:50.480
Um brilliant.
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:57.920
Maybe if I'm you still feel accomplished too, because if you're like finishing it, that's brilliant.
00:46:58.400 --> 00:46:59.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:07.679
So I mean, and the the other thing you can do, especially in this playground where maybe you don't always want to make conversation, is listen to a short story podcast, which you know.
00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:18.320
Short story podcast is m sometimes my best friend, and you've got to if you can just like let yourself um go with whatever it is.
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:28.079
Don't look at the don't look at the notes, don't look who's coming up or how long it is, because you taught yourself out of every single one and you go, Oh, this one's 45 minutes, and I only have 43 minutes, I can't listen to it.
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:34.800
Um just have to accept that you're gonna go on the journey of whatever story is next in the list.
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:41.679
You discover the most interesting writers that you would not perhaps think was your, you know, your type.
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:49.599
So you're saying it's it's yeah, that's one of my recommendations to people who think I don't know how to I don't know what I will like.
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:51.920
Yeah, we'll just try lots of stuff and see.
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:54.320
There's two brilliant recommendations there, actually.
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:55.599
It's like she's a pro.
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.639
It's almost like this is what you've done for almost two decades.
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:04.000
But yeah, we have a there's a short story podcast that I listened to called Earbud Theater, and it's the same thing.
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:07.519
And it I as you as you talk about it, that's one of the things that got us back into reading.
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:13.760
She started reading, we started reading books together, but it was around the same time that I was listening to that podcast, and I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it.
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:14.639
Getting to the stories.
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:15.440
Interesting.
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:16.480
Very interesting.
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:17.280
Thank you so much.
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:18.159
Okay, well you did it.
00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:18.800
Thank you for sharing.
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:20.159
Hopefully that wasn't too stressful.
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:21.840
I'm so excited.
00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:23.519
I've got great new recommendations.
00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:31.119
Uh we're curious, though, about on the the writing side of you as an author, you know, now thinking about these stories and getting into them.
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:33.920
You know, what what is the writing process look for you?
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:36.960
I know you've written a variety of types of books and things.
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:38.480
What what does that look like for you?
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:47.199
Oh, it's a lot of walking around with my dog, not being anywhere near a computer or a pen or a paper.
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:51.599
It's a lot of going, oh God, when will I have an idea?
00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:52.639
I would love to have an idea.
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:54.639
I hope I have an idea tomorrow.
00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:57.440
Um, please, please, please.
00:48:58.159 --> 00:48:59.199
No idea today.
00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:00.800
Um No idea today.
00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:01.280
Yeah.
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:05.679
And then and then thinking, how should I kill the time until I have an idea?
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:11.519
Maybe I'll read lots of great books that will make me feel so inferior and depressed that I won't ever write ever again.
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:14.000
Yeah, there's there is something there too.
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:16.400
They've already done it.
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:17.519
What am I gonna do?
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:30.960
And I'm wondering as an educator and as someone now as like an academic counselor, I make schedules for new students when they come in, and so a lot of times I'll find a first day friend for them when they when they're new to the school, and I I call in a kid.
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:35.599
So I was so excited to see that you wrote this book called The Tour at School because you're the new kid.
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:37.280
Can you talk a little bit about that?
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:42.159
Like where the idea came, how how that came about, and and the the writing process that got you there.
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:43.599
Yes, so beautiful.
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:56.079
Um it's it uh uh that's that is a picture book that I'm really proud of, and it came from the funniest um origins because the inspiration is um Do you know Fran Liebowitz?
00:49:56.239 --> 00:50:02.880
The um she's like American, American writer, uh Lady of Letters, glasses, iconic look.
00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:03.599
Oh yes.
00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:08.719
Um and I watched a great documentary, um, it was in during lockdown.
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:16.320
Um she did this great documentary with Martin Scorsese where she talked about New New York City and her kind of life in New York City.
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:26.239
And it I loved the way she was telling sort of all of her anecdotes were so interesting to me, but they were, you know, just anecdotes about her life.
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:45.440
And it it really reminded me of when I talked to my young daughter about her sort of her day, it was never really about what had kind of the the actual kind of building blocks of what happened at school, but it was very much about who said what and and what we ate and what that looked like.
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:52.559
And she had this very sort of literal way of having memories about place that were actually more about how she felt.
00:50:52.639 --> 00:51:25.519
You know, we I would say like, we're gonna go to the garden centre this weekend, and she would say, Oh, well, I I had a Tommy A cross time I was there, so I don't know if and it just uh this sort of this narrator came to me who was this child who would talk about a place but only in terms of feelings and stories of things that had happened, which isn't exactly relevant to a person who needs to know information about the place, but it also is relevant because it gives you a sense of the person and what it's gonna be like to spend time with them there.
00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:38.400
And I thought this is a really um this is a really fun narrator that I could have a good time with, and she would show someone around the school, but she would completely steamroll them with all of her stories about her sort of life.
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:39.760
Um I love that.
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:42.320
Yeah, that's so interesting.
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:49.360
And I think in the times that I've like invited students, like I don't always pick the you know, the straight A top student or whatever.
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:54.480
A lot of times I pick the kid with like a little charisma, like you know, they keep things interesting, you know.
00:51:54.639 --> 00:52:05.440
Maybe sometimes they show up on our behavior logs, but when you give them that that that responsibility of welcoming this new person, and I always tell them when I call them in, will you be their first day friend?
00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:10.480
Will you make sure that they find their way to their classes and get lunch and have somebody to eat with and things like that?
00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:20.400
They just, it's such a responsibility to them and just seeing the way that that they describe our school and the culture of our school, and like you said, just those things of like the way places make you feel.
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:25.039
Um, and it's just it's been so successful also for our new kids.
00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:28.719
They usually stay um and they really get connected quickly.
00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:35.519
I think it's so it's so much faster than having a teacher walk them to class or talk about, and this is this club or whatever.
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:40.239
I mean, getting that inside perspective from a kid is just priceless.
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:40.960
Yeah, it does.
00:52:41.199 --> 00:52:44.639
It just and building those those friendships and that ability to communicate.
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:45.840
I was so excited that you did.
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:49.199
I thought that was such a creative, you know, just storytelling.
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:51.039
Yeah, it was beautiful.
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:51.760
Oh, thank you.
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:56.639
School is a place where the children really do feel like they know, don't they?
00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:02.320
It's a place that they when you go in as a parent to your child's school, they know it better than you do.
00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:04.000
So they can show you around.
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:08.239
And I think they love that feeling of having the kind of Empowering them.
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:09.039
You know, they do.
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:12.800
It's very they do step up to that challenge, don't they?
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:18.320
So before we hit the final five, I want to ask, what do you have going on next?
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:19.119
What's next?
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:20.800
We're gonna continue the Substack.
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:21.920
What else is on the agenda?
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:28.719
So well, yeah, I do have to keep going with the Substack, and I'm afraid I am now fully committed to do sharing that every week.
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:30.559
And I can't get away from it.
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:31.440
We're all grateful, yes.
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:32.960
So I do keep doing that.
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:42.480
Um I mean, people have keep asking me when there's gonna be a next book, and I just kind of hoping that my publishers will let me do that because obviously I already have all the material because I've been writing it for three years.
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:43.039
Exactly.
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:51.119
So that would be um I do have another picture book um that I'm currently working on with my same publishers.
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:55.519
Um I just had a young fiction book just come out in the UK.
00:53:55.599 --> 00:54:02.320
It came out last month, but it unfortunately doesn't have a US release, but I'm told that you can get it um from Blackwells uh online.
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:10.719
Find it in disguise, and it's about a little girl who plays dress up at home um and adopts like different jobs um in her dress up at home.
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:16.559
Um so I've been having fun with that, and I have a second book in that series coming out next year.
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:20.159
Um and yeah, the US release of receipts next week.
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:24.159
So um calendar.
00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:27.199
Um yeah, it's very exciting to think of it.
00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:28.079
It's exciting.
00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:28.480
I know.
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.559
We were like, okay, how do we find a way to come visit?
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:32.960
We want to be the people who came from far away.
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:34.159
Yeah, we'll be here for this.
00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:37.280
We'll definitely be yeah, sending mail and things.
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:42.559
I think you should be expecting a lot more mail from around the world as this book hits the shelves.
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:47.519
Um but then also we are gonna keep an eye out and hoping that you come here and visit too.
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:49.679
That's our that's our next goal in hope.
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:51.920
So we're gonna keep an eye out for that too.
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:53.199
But um All right.
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:57.119
Well, I will close this out with the final five or our lightning round.
00:54:57.199 --> 00:55:00.000
Again, no wrong answers, just whatever comes to mind first.
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:02.320
Um hardcover or paperback?
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:06.400
Paperback, please, but I like the ones with the flaps on the covers.
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:06.960
Oh, yeah.
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:08.639
Yes, I love that.
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:11.599
Uh the one book you'll hand sell to literally anyone.
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:30.480
Um it's called Kick the Latch by Catherine Scamlin, and it's kind of an experimental, very short, under 200 pages novel about a horse trainer um who was a female horse trainer, and it was written through um interviews with a real horse trainer um called Sonia.
00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:32.159
Um, and it's such a beautiful book.
00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:37.599
It's like a whole life in a very short novella, and it's one of my absolute favourite books.
00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:42.400
And you don't need to care about horse racing or anything like that to enjoy it.
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:43.599
I love it.
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:44.000
Thank you.
00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:45.840
Um Favourite Beverage while writing.
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:47.199
What's your go-to?
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:49.440
Tea with milk, no sugar.
00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:52.960
Favorite punctuation mark.
00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:55.119
Ooh, I really like a semicolon.
00:55:56.159 --> 00:55:57.440
Semi-good one.
00:55:57.679 --> 00:55:58.079
Good one.
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:01.199
And one word you always overuse in a first draft.
00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:02.239
Do you know?
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:19.920
I have only recently someone else asked me recently my favorite word, and it turned out to be the word that I overuse, and it's relentless, um, which is not a word that many people have an affliction for, but I um have a real tendency to use the word relentless, relentlessly, it turns out.
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:30.000
Um I don't I don't sort of actively do it, but I will find that most meats in my substack I have used the word relentless at some point.
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:30.400
So I can't.
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:32.239
Now I'm gonna giggle when I read it.
00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:33.840
Yeah, if we read it, we're gonna see it.
00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:34.159
I love it.
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:35.440
I'll be like, oh, she loves this word.
00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:36.880
Yeah.
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:37.840
Thank you so much.
00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:39.280
Thank you so much for joining us, Kate.
00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:40.400
It's been amazing.
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:41.440
Thank you for your time.
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:43.119
We're so excited for the U.S.
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.039
launch of Receipts from the Bookshop.
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:49.039
Um we just can't can't wait to keep continue following along on the Substack.
00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:50.719
Um but thank you so much for it.
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:51.679
Thanks so much, Matt Andrea.
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:52.719
I've had a lovely time.
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:53.280
Thank you.
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:55.599
What an interesting journey.
00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:56.880
Great conversation.
00:56:57.199 --> 00:57:08.639
What an interesting journey to go from wanting to be a writer, taking us time to then opening a shop and and then realizing I don't have time.
00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:10.079
Oh my gosh, I've got too much going on.
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:12.079
I gotta be a shop person and do my shop thing.
00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:12.320
Yeah.
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:16.800
And then finally setting aside a little bit of time to kind of write.
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:17.280
Yeah.
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:22.239
And so she's done children's books and now teen and now the latest book, Receipts.
00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:23.679
Um amazing.
00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:24.559
What an inspiration.
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:31.840
Well, and it just made me think about with us that like I think we kind of touched on it of like, you know, we set out to write a book.
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:32.559
That was our goal.
00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:33.280
That was a goal.
00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:38.079
But then starting the podcast, it grew and changed and evolved, it changed and evolved so much.
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:42.719
And, you know, in a way, sometimes I think like, is that distracting us from our original goal?
00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:48.000
But I think of like how much more our lives have been enriched, our minds, like we've learned so many.
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:50.880
So many incredible people.
00:57:51.039 --> 00:58:03.199
And so I just think like it is similar to Katie that I was kind of inspired by her of like the thing that she thought was the distraction of like the pivot from her original plan, brought her back to that original love of wanting to write and wanting to be an author.
00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:05.039
So distraction's not always a bad thing.
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:15.360
No, I mean it's like we always say a curvy path is still a path, and um, and it's just like the the curves are where the interesting stuff happens, the curves is where the growth happens and the good stories.
00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:17.199
And I'm so thankful that she wrote them all down.
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:18.239
She wrote them all down for us.
00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:19.760
Receipts from the bookshop.
00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:21.760
Um but you can find her online.
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:25.280
So she's on Instagram at Katie Clapham Writing.
00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:28.159
Um, but she says in her bio there, like, I'm on Substack.
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:28.880
That's where you can find me.
00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:30.559
That's where this is Substack.
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:30.800
Yeah.
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:32.159
Go and subscribe.
00:58:32.320 --> 00:58:32.960
Yes, please.
00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:35.840
That's katyclapham.substack.com.
00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:41.760
But you also can follow the bookshop on Instagram, and that's at storytellers.inc on Instagram.
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:45.679
Um, so you can go and keep up with some of the things going on at the bookstore.
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:57.920
Um, but one thing I just wanted to highlight, because we said it's kind of a theme of the show, is just how important supporting independent bookstores, small businesses, indie authors, you know, all these things is so important.
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:01.920
Um, and I love this quote that she put on her uh Instagram.
00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:06.880
It says the survival of independent bookshops relies on the collective will of their customers.
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:10.960
And while some are passionate to the point of romance, others can get complacent.
00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:17.360
And so it's like, please think of your independent bookstore next time you're going to pre-order something or you're looking for something specific.
00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:18.239
Reach out to them.
00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:21.440
I mean, we've just enjoyed the relationships that we've made with the people.
00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:24.239
Um recently finished the North Texas kind of in-book crawl.
00:59:24.559 --> 00:59:27.119
The in-book crawl, getting to go see some of these stores.
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:29.280
We still have so many we still need to get to see.
00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:32.000
But you know, these are people and families, uh, you know, behind.
00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:37.119
And they keep different books and their own personality and vibe.
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:39.119
And uh it's so fun and so special.
00:59:39.199 --> 00:59:51.440
And so I just I wanted to, you know, kind of amplify, you know, what she said in that about just taking care of your indie indie book stores, you know, and and go and visit and spend your time and your money and all the things.
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:53.440
So thank you to Katie for joining us.
00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:54.960
You can find us on Instagram.
00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:01.199
Where can you find us at our next chapter podcast on our website at our next chapterpodcast.com.
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:01.760
Yes.
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:03.360
No, unnecessary.
01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:06.239
That is so 2025, and it's almost 2027.
01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:08.159
It is so time to let that go.
01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:16.880
Um, also go support support at shop underscore max mac s on Instagram too with her bookish tees and crew necks and things.
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:19.280
Um dash.org out there.
01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:21.679
All the things, yes, go save the m-dash.
01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:22.880
Drop us a note.
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.960
Let us know what's going on in your world.
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:32.000
We hear a lot from you guys, and it's always it makes us happy to hear from you and hear that you're sharing the show or you're telling somebody else about it.
01:00:32.079 --> 01:00:35.679
Or a lot of the note we get is like, you know, I just feel like I talked to you guys already.
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:37.840
Yeah, I've feel like I've been hanging back with you.
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:39.360
Yeah.
01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:44.559
Um or if you read the books that we're talking about too, we we love to be reading the same books with you.
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.760
Um but until next time, thank you so much for being here.
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:48.719
I love you.
01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:50.159
I love you.
01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:52.400
That's so nice to be told first.
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:53.119
Thanks.
01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:55.519
Look at me go.
01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:56.719
Were you thinking it this time?
01:00:57.039 --> 01:00:58.159
I was thinking it was thinking about it.
01:00:58.239 --> 01:00:59.199
I was thinking about loving you.
01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:00.159
Oh, that's I did it.
01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:01.519
Just me, not Stella.
01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:05.199
You have something to talk about?
01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:07.440
Let me r ring the bell.
01:01:08.239 --> 01:01:09.679
Welcome to Anna Whimsy.
01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:11.679
You didn't even acknowledge that was a good name.
01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:12.960
Anna Whimsy?
01:01:14.239 --> 01:01:15.519
I just came up with that off the cuff.
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:16.960
I thought that was pretty good.