Why Great Opticians Think Like Detectives, Not Salespeople Why it works

WEBVTT
00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:06.959
Welcome to another episode of Optimetry Prophets Revealed.
00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:08.480
I'm your host, Peter Precht.
00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:13.119
And today we are blessed to be with Pablo Mercado.
00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:20.800
He's a veteran, a military veteran, 25 years, uh 26 in eye care after that.
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:23.679
And without any further ado, I'm not going to tell your story.
00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:25.440
Tell me your story.
00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:27.199
Thanks for being here, Pablo.
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:28.160
Thank you.
00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:30.559
First of all, thank you very much for having me.
00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:37.280
I, as you mentioned, I've been doing this for slightly over a quarter century.
00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:44.240
I started in a an optical lab with a big box store.
00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:50.960
And I've been also doing the uh uh private practice also.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:59.280
Um this career started with in a very kind of weird way, if you would say that.
00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:18.000
Uh, because I was at the time I was selling TV sets and transistors and cell phones at a radio shack, and at that time I was um high myope and with some good astigmatism to to throw into the mix just to make it interesting.
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:33.920
And one day I'm off from work and I'm walking uh on the local mall here in the North Metro Atlanta area, and the big buck store is asking for uh to hire uh people for their uh uh in-store lab.
00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:40.560
And me wearing my glasses at that time, uh I'm thinking, you know what?
00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:46.480
Um I don't know what it takes to make a pair of glasses, so I'll just ask.
00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:54.239
No intention of applying or anything because that's I'm selling TVs and cell phones and transistors and batteries.
00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:55.920
That's that's my thing.
00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:57.519
Boy, was I wrong.
00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:13.840
They they gave me the grand tour from the second that they received the order in the lab until the moment they dispensed the finished pair of glasses to the patients, and I was hooked and I applied immediately.
00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:22.400
Um, and uh when I got home, I spoke to my late wife and said, You know what, I I've applied to this optical position.
00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:28.000
And and she said, I hope you know what you're doing, and I said, Yeah, me too.
00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:38.400
But uh almost 30 years later, this um this career has been very good to me.
00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:41.599
Um, I am licensed in the state of Georgia.
00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:56.159
Um I have been blessed to have a number of opportunities that uh um I don't want to sound uh kind of self-serving here, but but it kind of goes with the conversation.
00:02:56.639 --> 00:03:02.639
I of course I am I am a master optician.
00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:07.439
I have served in the board of directors of the National Academy of Optichery.
00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:17.360
I have been a commissioner in the Commission of Optionary Accreditation, which is the organization that accredits opticianry schools in the United States.
00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:29.199
I have been a member of the board of directors of the American Board of Opticionary, and I am also currently the chair of the education committee.
00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:36.479
Um, and most recently, um, I was a former member of the board of directors of the United Opticians Association.
00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:45.360
Not a board member anymore, but I am still involved with them in the marketing education committee and leadership conference committees.
00:03:45.599 --> 00:04:01.199
Um this this this that afternoon walking on the mall, seeing a sign say, hey, we want someone in the lab has turned into some amazing opportunities.
00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:14.080
I've met some great people, and I've learned so much, and I still learning, and I wherever I go, I say this, and I say this wholeheartedly.
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.439
I love being an optician.
00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:27.439
I to me you know that journey, like you said, it how it instantly grabs you.
00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.480
I I talked about that on my last podcast.
00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:39.360
It's there's no question that there's an energy that comes uh through almost immediately.
00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:44.319
It really it resonates really quickly with people, and they get it.
00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:45.439
It's life-changing.
00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:54.399
It's life-changing when something begins to fascinate you, you begin to grip what is happening with light and how things are changing behind the eye.
00:04:54.639 --> 00:05:12.079
So so your five years at a Lenscrafters, which is exactly how I started my career as well, and then and then in and out of private practice, um, but your education journey is is really the the most uh amazing part.
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:17.600
And and and the people that you've met, but I want to I want to talk about a few things that you said.
00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:29.839
We we talked extensively before the interview began, and you know, we talked about energy in rooms behind doors, um uh corporate versus um private.
00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:36.160
And and and when we were talking about corporate versus a private environment, you you mentioned uh a temperament for eye care.
00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:45.600
And I thought that was a really good term because it takes a certain temperament to figure things out that aren't making sense.
00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:46.959
Absolutely.
00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:54.639
You know, I I I think that uh a good optician has to have this curiosity about things.
00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:00.399
It's um the numbers are here when you're troubleshooting a pair of eyeglasses.
00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:11.199
The numbers are here, the numbers seem to be correct, but the patient is coming to you saying, I picked up this pair of glasses, but I can't see well out of them.
00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:20.319
So, you know, the easy, the lazy ways to do it is, oh, we'll remake them and come back in two weeks.
00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:38.319
But the question is, if if you don't start thinking if everything seems right, but the result is wrong, there's something that it's not happening the way it should, or there's a factor that we may have not considered.
00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:43.279
And then you have to start thinking and start putting the pieces together.
00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.079
And sometimes some things are very obvious.
00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:59.600
Okay, the PD is off, okay, the seg height is off, um the lenses of access, which all of these should have been caught on final inspection, but that's another story for another day.
00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:06.319
But then there's some things that are not as obvious, and then you, as an optician, you have to start thinking about this.
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:12.639
Is the patient sensitive to a particular material over others?
00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:18.160
Is the base curve of the lens affecting how that patient can see?
00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:29.439
Has there been a change in the actual patient in terms of a malady, a condition that is affecting his or her vision?
00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:53.279
And when you have the curiosity, and one of the things that I love about being an optician is when you put on your detective hat and you start troubleshooting, and and the great thing about it is when you figure out what it is and you present the solution to the patient, and the patient starts smiling and says, Yes, I can see now, right?
00:07:53.839 --> 00:08:00.480
That that is something that just feels great, and I and I love that feeling when that happens.
00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:10.079
Yeah, even if you're well, and I'm gonna I'm gonna get you to tell that story in a few moments, the one that we were just talking about before we were uh recording.
00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:29.439
Uh but in a situation like that, even you know, even if it might take a moment or a day or you know, whatever, uh sometimes just changing the mindset because you've explained what's happening with the light as it's entering the eye, that's you know, it can be explained pretty simple to people.
00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:35.519
They they understand the nuts and bolts of how glasses work a lot of times, not every time.
00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:36.879
You know, we do deal with that.
00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:40.399
Uh put the glasses down, the medicine came out of them and and whatnot.
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:48.879
But most people you can talk to in a way, uh, and I think that's another skill that we really didn't even get into.
00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:54.399
You know, how to explain something that can be complicated in a simple way to a patient.
00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:59.279
That's an art that uh opticians don't really get enough credence for that skill, I should say.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:13.679
Yeah, you know, the communication and you can boil down complicated concepts into simpler, more approachable terms for a patient.
00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:19.120
But that also comes apart as what we were talking about, the temperament of an optician.
00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:24.720
We as opticians need to be ready to meet the patient where he or she is.
00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:40.639
You have a patient that is concerned and upset that they paid good money for a pair of glasses that is not working, or for a set of contact lenses.
00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:44.080
Well, let's talk about contact lenses also, and they're not working.
00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:48.799
Well, there's a level of frustration and there's a level of anxiety.
00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:53.840
We need to stop as opticians looking at here comes a problem.
00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:58.320
We need to turn that conversation into here comes an opportunity.
00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:00.720
That Mr.
00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:01.759
Jones, Mrs.
00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:06.399
Smith, I'm here to help you make sure that we're going to.
00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:13.519
One of the things I like to tell uh some of our patients is I'm not going to be happy until you are.
00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:19.600
And uh you hear another, I hear a number of people say, I am so sorry to bother you.
00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.320
It's like, no, no, you don't understand.
00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:23.679
I live for this.
00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:27.600
Would you believe that they pay me to do this all day?
00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:45.360
And don't tell anyone, because I don't want to see and that brings out a chuckle, but but that opens that line of communication where the patient says, Okay, this guy is on my side, I can trust him, and he's going to come up with a solution to my problem.
00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:57.440
And that solves 99.9% of the problems that you have most times with with a patient that is having issues with uh with the eyewear.
00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:05.039
You there's a quote that I'm gonna quote you here uh from from from when we were talking earlier.
00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.120
It what speaks to what you just said.
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:11.120
Uh we are the servants of the opticians.
00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:25.679
Now, that was in reference to a board discussion, which we'll get to later, but that it totally connects into what you're saying right there, because you you know, it's it's not a problem, it's an unsolved answer.
00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.399
And you know, here's here's the thing.
00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:43.600
You know, I have been many times helping people that have purchased eyewear someplace else, and they bring them to me because they can't see, and sometimes the solution is very simple, right?
00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:58.480
And they don't want to go back to that place because they feel that the person helping them or not helping them doesn't really want to be bothered with them, and it's like, no, come bother me all the time, anytime.
00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:01.759
I again I will not be happy until you are.
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:09.840
I'm going to I'm going to do whatever I can, and if I don't have the answer, I will find it for you.
00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:10.720
Right.
00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:20.000
It's it's the one because you know, just because I I have earned the master's designation doesn't mean that I know everything and anything that there is.
00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:30.240
As a matter of fact, in some of the places I go as a master optician, I'm the most stupid and dumb of all the people in the room.
00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:45.120
And I just stayed, I I shut my mouth and I listen to these uh colleagues saying things on me furiously taking notes of oh, that oh okay, that's a good one.
00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:46.000
Right.
00:12:46.799 --> 00:13:05.360
Yeah, I forget uh eons ago I was listening to a podcast, and it was this someone talking about this this person they were told to follow, and he was quite old, and he had this book, and he would always pull out this little book, and he'd be like citing things.
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.279
And and the person was like, What are you writing still in this book?
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.759
He's like, This is is this your little Bible?
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:13.039
And he's like, Yeah, it is.
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:19.279
This is where all my you know, this is where all my rules that aren't written down are written down.
00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:28.399
And and you know, these are gems that come uh from seeing your opticians in that working environment.
00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:32.720
It's like a built-in apprenticeship uh as you go.
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:39.519
You know, the one of the most amazing things about being an optician is you can do it for so long and go in one day and go, oh my gosh, I've never seen that before.
00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:40.639
What the heck is that?
00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:42.320
True to do that, you know.
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:43.519
Um very true.
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:44.480
And you know what?
00:13:44.720 --> 00:14:02.720
To this day, I'm still taking notes, and when I go to um continued education uh meetings to get my credits for my license renewal here in Georgia, and uh I hear speakers and I hear a number of things, and I always get something out of it.
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:08.879
Always, always, and I have a little as a matter of fact, bear with me here.
00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:30.559
I'm really glad that you are a book and I take notes and I put uh I sometimes that when I encounter a situation that I haven't seen before, I I think about it and think about it, and when we get to the solution, it goes, it goes in the book.
00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:32.559
I love that.
00:14:32.799 --> 00:15:06.080
I mean it's it I think that it's too often, and and and and I know uh I deal with this with ADHD, too often there'll be fantastic ideas that if that I don't get them down some way, somewhere, record them in one way or another, I feel like they just waft away in the breeze, and you know, that's a it's one of those, you know, you you live with it, but you know, sometimes you wish you had that book like you just talked about, where it's like, oh, I need to jot this down, that would really make my life a little bit easier.
00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:20.639
Um you uh one of the things that we that we talked about pretty early on as we began to to talk uh earlier was about uh some of the undertones uh that it do exist in in opticianry.
00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:26.399
And one of the things you you said, which I also found fascinating, was opticians can be their own worst enemy.
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.639
And um, you know, that it that it can border on tragic.
00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:43.519
And and you and I are deeply passionate about the future of opticianry, and and we're gonna dig into the channels to uh create uh you know, not just your own branding, but your own business opportunity, anything like that.
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:49.039
It's very open and very real and very live for opticians in in darn near every market.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:51.120
But talk about that if you can.
00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:57.600
You know, you've been involved directly with education, you you're right now you're the chair, you know, of that with the ABO.
00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.039
Uh got a long history with it, with what you've learned.
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:09.840
Talk talk if you can about that, you know, in the best way that you can, based on how you and I really feel.
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.840
Um, I'll give you the floor there.
00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:12.879
Uh say it the best way you can.
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:13.840
Thank you, thank you.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:26.080
Um well, one of the things that we have discovered, and this is a conversation that has been had in all the boards that I've uh that I've been have the honor of serving.
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:36.559
Um sometimes a number of opticians will try to to take shortcuts to things that you have to learn the hard way.
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:48.559
And by hard way doesn't mean necessarily that it's difficult or or that it's onerous, but it just requires the dedication and the time to say, hey, I'm going to learn this.
00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:57.200
Uh, I see with a level of sadness every year online people saying, Hey, I need to get some credits.
00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:59.519
Where can I find free credits?
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:05.119
And this is what we do for a living.
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:15.200
You we should spend the money that it takes for us to become and remain competent in what we do.
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:26.960
I will say this: I have spent thousands of dollars in books, and I have spent thousands of dollars in tools.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.960
I have my own lens meter, I have a keratometer.
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.559
I have a keratometer, but I do have a lens on it.
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:46.799
I could open a dispensary out of the back of my Jeep because I want to know my tools.
00:17:47.039 --> 00:18:00.720
I I want to I I want to be so intimately knowledgeable about the tools of my trade that I have spent the money to purchase those tools, not just keep the ones at the office.
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:17.359
And uh the other thing is I I pay out of my own pocket to go to a number of events to get the continued education in person.
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:25.920
Nothing wrong about uh getting credits online, and that's not what I'm saying.
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:56.799
All I'm saying is sometimes what you get out of an in-person meeting where you see the speaker and you see his or her way of explaining or covering a topic gives you that much more knowledge and more understanding on the topic, and sometimes you know it also goes to show you know, some people see these as just a job.
00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:28.319
I'm just paying my bills with this, as opposed to this is who I am, this is what I do, and and I think uh particularly uh in in uh I I suspect that in some schools out there and in some places when they hire people from the street, I don't think they are made aware of hey, this is not just a job, this is something else.
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:33.279
And you get to change lives on a daily basis.
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:36.559
Completely.
00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:40.480
And you know, let's take that three steps further.
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:46.640
Uh when you're on a video forum, you're you're learning the information with others that are learning the information.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:20:06.000
When you're face to face, there's a moment where there's coffee in a lobby, and there's people that two opticians that just met each other from different places, and they're having a discussion about two different patients that had a similar problem, and they're figuring things out, and then they're smiling, and they're getting back on an elevator, and that doesn't happen online.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:15.279
And there's something about face-to-face commuting and gathering, and I'm gonna extend this out to optometry.
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:35.359
That I I'm a big believer that, and it doesn't it doesn't have to be yearly, you know, opticians on Facebook get upset with me for merging optometry and opticians, but very seriously, I think at an education level, if if we're never ever coming together for educational gatherings, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:37.039
We work together all the time.
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:42.960
We really ought to kind of come together and talk about some of these things to have better resolutions in my mind.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:54.559
But again, like you're talking about, there's a temperament, there's an understanding that uh is part of being, you know, an optician.
00:20:54.640 --> 00:21:11.359
And and and when we see certain attitudes that change in certain places, you know, it it can be sad to see anything that is self-righteous that ends up hurting the larger group.
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:14.319
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:22.640
You know you know you talked about being a servant to, you know, it that's where the tragedy ends up being.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:31.279
There's a disconnect inside the industry between that genuine feeling of serving the patient, resolving a problem, having that moment.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:35.440
You know, there's no price tag on that moment other than a set of glasses.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:37.920
But we just talked about it.
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:43.359
It's not something that can be completely quantified in that moment.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:51.839
You don't realize the people that you just impacted when that person left and saw clearly all the way to that meeting and voted in that meeting and changed the vote of the meeting.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:52.799
You don't know.
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.160
Went and picked their child up sick, you know, whatever.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.359
Whatever happened, you were part of that.
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.960
And bringing it into their lives after that moment.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:10.480
So let's talk about the UOA for a few moments, if you don't mind.
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:12.799
I so far I'm a big fan.
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:18.480
I think highly of the conversations that I've had with Gwen and what we are doing in PA.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:28.319
From a certification standpoint and from moving into licensure, there's no state where we've seen that happen.
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:32.640
But something like that may end up happening on a rapid level in Pennsylvania.
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.359
How would you suggest that take place?
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:39.759
And I don't I don't mean for you to speak strongly about legislation unless you feel comfortable doing it.
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:47.039
But talk about it in terms of licensure with opticians in places where you know it is in places where you know it's not.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:23:13.759
Well, you know, one of the one of the things that we have discovered, and we've had the United Opticians Association has has put a lot of time, effort, and money into trying to to create the organization that definitely is going to help the profession move forward.
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:42.640
And um so far uh we have had a a number of successes in this, and um it all has started by understanding that who the optician is, what an optician should be, and what is the best way uh to help that change forward, particularly on unlicensed states.
00:23:43.039 --> 00:24:03.759
Now, um the UOA with uh vision council commissioned a study, and the immense majority of the public in the United States, in both uh licensed and unlicensed state, believe in the minds that an optician is a licensed professional.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:06.559
So that's the first disconnect there.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:25.680
So in that uh, and I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but a lot of those respondents would feel very uncomfortable if they were to find that the person that is helping them with the eyewear is not licensed or certified.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:43.279
So also, the immense majority of the people that responded to that uh survey say that they would strongly support a minimum set of competency by way of certification for opticians.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:48.000
So that pretty much has our work cut out for us.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:25:18.480
So, so what we need to do is we need to start having the conversations where you have opticians in unlicensed states that do not really understand the value of being certified, staying certified, and the protections under the law that are provided by being licensed.
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:35.200
So we have to change the minds of some opticians, we have to change the mind of legislators so we can pretty much match the perception of the purchasing public.
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:56.720
Because I have seen a number of times what can happen when a person purchases a pair of glasses in an unlicensed state versus what happens when you uh buy a pair of glasses in in a licensed state?
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.400
Are you gonna have great eyewear for unlicensed states?
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:00.960
Yes.
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:07.599
Are you gonna have crappy eyewear coming out of a practice in a licensed state?
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:08.799
Yes, it happens.
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:09.599
It does.
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:21.279
But the thing is, on the average, the level of quality in licensed states, particularly those who whose standards are higher.
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:35.359
I'm talking about the Nevadas, the New Yorks, the New Jerseys, the Floridas, the quality of the eyewear that the purchasing public receives in those those states is higher.
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:40.799
All we're trying to do here is raise everybody up to that level.
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:47.680
I firmly believe in in what you're saying.
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.799
And there's no question that the numbers show that.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:57.359
The numbers support uh what what you're saying in in terms of optician work.
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:06.640
Like you said, the data is is pretty clear that the the policeman part of it.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:15.200
You know, you just mentioned that it very briefly, you know, that the lag segment, the la glasses are fabricated, and now that they go back through the optician.
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.039
That's where you want a skilled optician involved.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:29.680
That's where you want the seasoned optician who can, you know, problem solve in the right sequence, who can help ask the right questions.
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:35.920
And if they're stumbled or stopped somewhere, nowhere to get answers, that's the other thing.
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.839
Um that I think is not talked about a whole lot.
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:55.359
Um you know, from an education uh from an education standpoint, uh, you know, speak if you can, speak to technology, you know, because you just talked about having courses online.
00:27:55.759 --> 00:28:05.680
Speak to other ways that you've seen technology in education with opticians that you know that can connect or maybe bridge some of that gap.
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:16.160
Because we you and I hit deeply on practical is absolutely immense, but how can it be implemented in places where there maybe there isn't a school or something like that?
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:20.079
Um how do you follow up with that?
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:31.119
Well, uh, you know, uh technology has been sometimes a great help and sometimes a hindrance.
00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:31.759
Right.
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:45.920
And um, as a newscaster from years and years and years ago in my native Puerto Rico used to say uh technology is neither good or bad, is the way that it's used.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:59.599
And there's some there's some uh technologies out there, and there's some tools out there that opticians can use um uh to improve their skills.
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:31.680
You know, there's a number of really, really good videos on on YouTube that you can go to see about things related to optics, things related to frames, things related to to lenses, that if you don't have the opportunity to go every year, every twice a year, to or every once in a two-year period, or something like that, to go get that information here firsthand.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:51.519
You you can go and and see and and um I I'm subscribed to several um YouTube channels uh that deal with optics and things like that, because there's some things that you know what, and again, I I think I've said this before, but but I think it bears repeating.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:28.480
Just because I'm a master optician doesn't mean that I know everything, and sometimes I again I go to places in some of the meetings that I go that I am the dumbest in the bunch, and I go one of the reasons is to do the job that I do on those boards, but the other thing is to go and learn more from these people like the Fernel Walkers, the the Sarah Collins, uh the the I know it could be the Tombo Ricados, the uh um yeah, gosh, names are um are escaping me, you know.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:32.079
Uh no, there's a lot of them.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:33.759
There's a whole lot right now, you know.
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:44.240
Yeah, you know, and and and the board, the ABO and the NCLE board are full with amazing people, extremely knowledgeable.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:31:00.880
Uh that that definitely I I I think that I've I've been blessed to be first, that I have been allowed in that room, and the other thing is that they think that I have something to provide and to contribute.
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.759
That that be it just blows my mind.
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:15.200
Well you you bring in you're bringing an ethic, a tone, and an attitude that can change rooms, and we're gonna talk about that.
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:19.279
Um let's uh I'll stick my face right into the mud here.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:34.720
You know, we we talked about the route to being master opticians, and we talked about master opticians being unapproachable, you know, as if they're some uh rock star celebrity kind of thing or whatnot, and you know, you you should be, you know, to be in the room with me.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:39.759
And then you told a story that connected back into someone you just mentioned, which Sira.
00:31:40.000 --> 00:32:01.519
So talk about that if you can, and talk about how you've seen some of that tone change in boardrooms, too, if you have a chance, because that's it's definitely that to to um you mentioned Sira, um, again, an amazing lady, she's smart off the charts.
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:29.359
Um, a couple of years ago at Vision Expo, um the ABO NCLE, the Opticon uh booth, had a um a forum with master opticians explaining the road and how being a master optician has changed their life and and how how that has changed their outlook on their profession.
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:48.240
And um of course Cyril Collins was there, and I I if I remember correctly, Fernell Walker was there, and uh Bob Alexander was there, and uh, and they're talking about getting to master and and what they do, how they do it, and all that good stuff.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:33:11.680
And after that presentation, this lady from Massachusetts came to me and say, She's like, I I cannot believe how how approachable these people are because I used to work with this master optician that treated me like dirt because I wasn't a master optician.
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.480
And I said, Would you like to meet Sarah?
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:19.759
And I called Sarah over, and they put them the two together.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:42.240
She talked with this lady, and uh she had this great conversation with uh her, and uh eventually she left, decided that she wanted to become a master just because of that conversation that she had with Sira, and she saw how approachable the masters on that panel were.
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:45.119
Way to go, Sira.
00:33:45.680 --> 00:34:00.319
I mean, that's that's the essence of what it but I've had conversations with her, and she holds accountability really very you know if you're working alongside her, you're not gonna pass garbage.
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:03.119
And I love that.
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:12.400
I really like the fact that she is very on boots on the ground with accountability in terms of her life and her career.
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:30.000
But just to talk about that personal break and the awfulness of the beginning of that, the the bizarre, arrogant undertones that I don't want to say they're pervasive, but gee, they should keep coming up when I talk to people.
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:31.679
Hmm.
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:47.360
And I talk people that have been doing it in 60 some years, so it's like wow, there's a bizarre common theme here of this bizarre, arrogant uh undertone of the the optician who phew, I know better than you.
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:51.280
And I just we need some more Sierras, you know.
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:57.760
Let's like dupe that and take it and stick it in as many rooms as we can, you know.
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:08.800
Um I don't know how to change that, but I do know that ignoring it and not talking about it isn't going to make it go away.
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:17.440
Definitely, you know, uh the the the the first the first step to solving a problem is recognizing that there is a problem.
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:29.039
And I will say this, and I'm very happy to report, you know, I've been involved with all of these boards for in one way or another for what over 15 years now, right?
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:30.480
Perhaps a bit longer.
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:31.199
Yeah, probably.
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:48.719
And I have seen the shift in many of these boards from the uh well, no, you know, we we we are who we are and we'll do what we do, and whoever comes by, they they need to respond to us.
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:59.039
And uh I'm gonna speak now directly about the ABO and CLE board and the UOA board.
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:04.400
The mentality is how do we help the optician?
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:32.639
We are the servants of the opticians, we are very, very painfully aware that we are in a very privileged position that allows us to make changes and to point to directions that affect thousands upon thousands of opticians and millions of people that receive the services of an optician.
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:59.760
So we certainly have a very clear understanding of what we have to do, and and how and we have a lot of discussions when we are considering a change in policy or a change in requirements for courses and things like that.
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:13.199
Is does this help, and talking about ABO and NCLE in this case, does this help the holders of certificates?
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:27.599
Is this effective to provide a better service, better education, better knowledge for those opticians that hold a certificate from ABO and NCLE?
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:34.159
Uh are we allowing only the very best courses to be approved?
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:42.559
Is there a better and and I will say this, uh um not to toot my own horn because I'm I'm the dumbest one and the bunch.
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:48.000
And I will say this and I'll repeat it till the cows come home.
00:37:48.800 --> 00:38:06.960
In the last five years, we have made some changes to the way that we receive and uh approach and approve courses in a way that the quality of the courses have it has improved.
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:12.639
Does the course go through a different litmus test than it used to a few years ago?
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:19.440
Definitely, because um years ago, and I'm talking decades ago, right?
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:25.119
Um the approval of a course was very subjective.
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:26.000
Right.
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:28.000
Very subjective.
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:42.960
As a matter of fact, you know, if a board member saw a course from someone that they did not particularly care for, they would reject the course outright without any rhyme or reason.
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:50.800
Which again, which leaves technology, you know, floating down some other lane because it didn't suit someone's yaya, you know.
00:38:51.119 --> 00:39:02.320
Well, and here's the other thing nowadays, we don't even want to see the name of the speaker on the submitted course to eliminate that bias.
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:03.840
That's a good idea.
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:05.119
We don't want to see it.
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:05.840
That's really good.
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:12.800
I mean, because somebody loves Peter Prect, and Peter Prect uh submits a course approved automatically.
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:19.519
That's or somebody hates Pablo Mercado, Pablo Mercado submits a course, I hate him, course is denied.
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:33.440
Now we have a number of uh criteria for all courses, and depending on whether those courses meet the criteria, then the course is approved.
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:34.960
That's really cool.
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:39.360
Hey, let's talk a little bit about the the route to being a master optician.
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:41.840
You had explained that that changed as well.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:43.599
Um yes, definitely.
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:49.599
Um, in years past, um, you have to be an advanced certified optician.
00:39:49.760 --> 00:40:14.159
That has not changed, and then you have to prepare uh a dissertation that you had to present to the master's committee, and then the master committee would evaluate that dissertation, and uh if you were if the dissertation was considered to be good enough for you to attain the the designation of master, you would get it.
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:36.480
Now, nowadays, what you have to do is you have to be, of course, a advanced certified optician, but you have to submit three level three courses, be by live course or an online course or a printed course.
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:54.880
Now, there's three levels of of courses: the basic, the intermediate, which is the level two, and the advanced level three, and the non-ophthalmics, which are not necessarily referring to optics, but that are helpful for opticians.
00:40:55.119 --> 00:41:04.400
Um, non-ophthalmic courses are not uh eligible for master's designation, so you have to present it.
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:22.239
You have to have two level three um courses approved, and having presented that, oh, by the way, which necessitates that you are also an ABO and or NCLE speaker approved by ABO and NCLE.
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:44.800
So to be a master, you have to be a speaker, you have to have at least uh at least one cycle being an advance, and of course, you have to be a level three approved speaker because you cannot submit a level three uh course if you're not if you're not level three um approved.
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:49.920
Right, which can makes complete sense.
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:57.199
It sounds like the the new direction is almost a little bit more friendly towards uh the industry.
00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:06.800
Um it in a way, I guess if you're scared to death of speaking, it's not cool, but me, I'll talk anywhere.
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:46.000
But yeah, but you know, we have we have people that I have submitted the courses uh for being published, and as long as you can type a coherent uh course, see the big difference between uh uh courses for approval and the courses that are going to be considered for uh master's designation is that in a course that is just submitted for approval, you have to, if if it's a live presentation or an online presentation, you only present the outline of the course.
00:42:47.119 --> 00:43:05.039
When you do the level three for approval for masters, you have to present both the outline and the slides that accompany that course or the actual uh article.
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:13.119
Okay, so it goes, and of course, you're gonna have masters looking at those courses.
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:17.280
You don't get Joe from the street, hey, look at this course, see what you think.
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:28.239
Uh the master, as a matter of fact, the master's committee, which is comprised, of course, of all masters, they are the ones who take a look at those courses.
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:30.239
That's cool.
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.719
Uh I I I did not know that.
00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:34.559
They've earned that right.
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:39.920
You know, that's you've certainly put in the hours and the expertise to understand.
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:56.719
Um, I would as long as the boots on the ground are connected somewhat in some way directly to the sale of eyewear on a daily basis, you know, I don't want to see that disconnect ever happen.
00:43:56.880 --> 00:44:14.639
But again, you know, even if a super Supervisory level doesn't matter, you know, but I but I can't tell you how often I hear uh the optician stories, you know, and how people people are happy to get back to some face-to-face so that it can be, you know, relatable in any way.
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:21.760
One of the one of the things that we like to do on this podcast is talk about a technology plus and then a technology down.
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:32.559
So over your 26 years, do you have some scenarios or references to either of those, like technology that you've seen that you really loved, or maybe technology that you did not like at all?
00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:34.480
Well, yeah, sure.
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:39.280
Um, but I I tell you what, you know, I I love lab work.
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:47.599
I started on the lab, I I love getting my hands dirty and wet with lenses and frames and things like that, right?
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:49.679
And doing repairs and all that good.
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:51.199
I I love doing that.
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:59.119
And you know, the technology available now, the first generator that I used was a manual one.
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:22.480
You had to glide the lens against the wheel manually with two hands, yeah, and then they changed it into a generator that uh uh that occupied about a tenth of the space, and not only generated the lens, but also generated the laps for finding and polishing.
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:33.760
So, and the improvement on the quality of that lens coming out of these new generators were incredible.
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:43.840
Absolutely, yeah, and a technology minus some of the EHR products out there are absolutely atrocious.
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:51.920
And um, yes, you need to have those computers to enter the order for a patient and all that good stuff.
00:45:52.159 --> 00:46:00.239
Some of them you can tell that they had the input of opticians because they are very intuitive and very easy to work with.
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:44.800
Some they had a bunch of computer geeks working on that, and they thought this was going to work this way, and then you have to take the scenic route to get to where you want to, and and it takes time first because the learning curve on these things are some somewhat high, and and you know, it gets frustrating because you're trying to do you have 20, 25, 30 jobs that you have to enter, so you can send them to the lab and and get this going, but you have to be fighting a computer to enter something that should be almost a no-brainer.
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:45.920
Yeah.
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:47.519
Right.
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:51.119
Well, the EHR disconnect is a massive problem.
00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:57.199
And AI's efforts to plug into it often leave optometry scratching their heads.
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:01.039
Um, analysis paralysis is very real in that lane.
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:06.960
If they could just build it in their garage and plug it in, they would trust it more, even though it would suck and break.
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:11.199
That is an ugly undertone in the entire industry.
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:12.639
That's not just opticians.
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:21.519
That is a problem where rather than embrace new technology, they just want to go to Vision Expo and gather as much information and build their own.
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:24.320
And it never gets done, by the way.
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:25.679
Oh, it never happens.
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:37.360
By the time our books are empty and out in July into August, all of a sudden they're flip-filled again with school and insurance, and there's just not enough time to tackle some of those what I consider to be real problems.
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:47.360
So that was a technology glass forward that you said worked really well, going from that old 113 coburn to seeing the awesome Gerber stuff that made the tool with it.
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:49.840
Um, talk about technology that stunk.
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:51.760
I'm sure you've seen a few of them.
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:57.360
Well, again, you know, but most is on the EHR.
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:01.119
Uh one thing that I don't like, I see the use.
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:03.119
I I'm gonna say this up front.
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:11.360
I see the use that they have, but digital lens meters I I cannot stand.
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:19.199
I have to be dialing it in, and and you know, it makes it more difficult to read a compensated lens.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:20.079
Well, right.
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:48.239
But at the same time, when you're doing it with your own hands and you're dialing that power so you can read it, and then you can, if you're verifying prism, wanted, prescribed, or unwanted, if you know your way around the lens meter, then you can you can look at the patient and the doctor in the eye and say, these are correct, or these need to be remade.
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:49.119
Right.
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:55.440
Right, but uh I can certainly see that window where you'd not be so confident saying that, and that's a problem.
00:48:55.679 --> 00:49:07.199
Well, one of the things I was just saying to you before we were recording that relatively recently in my career, I got a grip of that compensation was the difference between the digital that you're reading and what the doctor was prescribing.
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:23.280
And you know, I while it made sense, it didn't really make sense, it's not really a number you're using, but that it made sense in terms of lens technology that was helping to try and maybe bridge that gap or whatever, if that makes sense.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:35.199
And and you know, here's here's the other thing which goes back into the loop of this conversation, which is basically how we need to be educated and stay educated.
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:44.880
It's it's right, the technologies and lenses and equipment and and and tools and everything keeps evolving.
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:53.199
Every year you're gonna see a new gizmo, a new Doohiki, a new gunculator, call it what you want to call it.
00:49:53.440 --> 00:50:05.039
Uh, that if you are just content of it in, and you don't have to sell every product in the market because that is almost impossible.
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:12.320
But you need to know that those products are out there, that those tools are out there, that those systems are out there.
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:23.840
So then you, when you're facing a patient, and that patient is asking you for your professional opinion, you can say, Mr.
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:24.880
Jones, Mrs.
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.079
Smith, I do not have here what you need.
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:30.159
What you need is this.
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:34.559
By the way, you can get it that place or the other place.
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:39.599
I will refer you to the to them so they can provide it to you.
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:49.360
That earns you the respect of that patient that says, you know, this guy knows what he's doing.
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:58.800
And uh he knows that he doesn't have what I need, but he knows what I need and where to get it.
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:10.239
And we say less patients, he's more than willing to send you there, knowing that five years later or within the next five years, he's gonna get extra patience from you just because you've told the story.
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:11.280
Absolutely.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:18.079
And the fact that you are probably gonna bring other people in with you uh because of that experience.
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:20.880
You know, that's that's old school opticianry.
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:36.880
And and we we talked briefly uh earlier about how, you know, just this week there's been a story on opticians on Facebook about an older practice getting bashed by a new one, they're bad mouthing us, and it's you know, it's so 13-year-old crap.
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:38.239
I can't stand it.
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:40.880
It's like, can we just get past this?
00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:47.679
You know, I'm not belittling the situation, but it shouldn't have you shouldn't change any course because of it.
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:57.599
Again, the the this goes back to 13-year-old middle school behaviors, Susie's always talking about Bobby and oh my god, and what you know.
00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.159
Please, can we be professionals?
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:01.840
Can we elevate the game?
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:15.440
If you're in an environment where you happen to have experience with a Zeiss product and you know that it's great, but you're working in a product that's working exclusively with Shamir or whatever, and you, you know, of course you're gonna get in trouble, you send them down a damn block or whatever.
00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:17.039
It's not you're not your call.
00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:23.360
But the reality is there was a time in optician work where that was accepted and okay, and it worked.
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:31.280
And like you said, we need to be able to put our big pants on and still be that way and still stay in that lane and still help one another.
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:36.159
And you know, to connect this in a weird way, and we talked a little bit about this.
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:42.880
Education hits, you know, there's the grind and resistance is relatable to what I just said.
00:52:43.039 --> 00:53:03.199
If if you know we have a corporate monopoly, if the monopoly, you know, isn't being used somewhere, they certainly don't want the the upset of the Apple cart by some optician going to uh state you know education forum and coming back going, hey, what's with this lens?
00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:04.559
I can't get this lens.
00:53:04.639 --> 00:53:05.519
Why can't I get this lens?
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:11.840
So we have this weird disconnect behind doors that stops some tech from getting to certain places.
00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:15.280
And you just talked about this perfect scenario go to so-and-so.
00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:18.880
I know that he'll have what you need, and I'll I'll see you again.
00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:20.079
I know I will.
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:24.079
And it's a and here's the other thing, though.
00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:35.199
You know, we want to be professionals, we want to be paid as professionals, but sometimes we refuse to do the things that professionals do.
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:37.679
See, I I will tell you this.
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:43.360
Not I again, I don't think I'm the smart the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:44.800
I certainly am not.
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:56.880
But here's the thing: I will wear a tie and a dress shirt and dress pants and a waistcoat or a waistcoat or a vest to work.
00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:05.599
I will have my uh name tag with my certifications, as a matter of fact.
00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:06.960
There it is.
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:17.199
Love it, and as a matter of fact, when I'm in some other uh that's nice, that's really nice.
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:18.320
I like that.
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:22.480
No one can tell your story better than you can.
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:34.719
And when you walk around, see, but here's the thing the law in Georgia requires that uh licensed opticians have a nameplate or some way of identifying that they're licensed.
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:44.800
So I wear these, and I when I'm in the big shows and things like that, I wear this one, and that opens conversations.
00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:56.639
And what I tell particularly, and I see a lot of students in optician from opticianary schools, I tell them, you're already ahead of the curve because you're in an opticianary school.
00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:09.599
But what you want to do, first of all, find yourself an old dog like me, woof woof, that has been there, done that, has the battle scars, right?
00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:13.119
And just ask the questions.
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:21.840
Ask what what is how do I do how what should I what should I not and all these things.
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:27.039
And the other thing is present yourself as a professional.
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:39.440
See, jeans and a t-shirt may be fine, but if you're expecting$30,$40,$50 an hour, you need to look$30,$40,$50 an hour.
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:45.199
And again, I'm not saying that jeans there, there's some practices that that is the vibe.
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:46.079
Fine.
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:47.679
Perfect, right?
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:49.760
And I don't have a problem with it.
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:53.840
Uh, or if you're wearing scrubs in your practice, fine.
00:55:54.320 --> 00:56:05.440
And again, I don't have a problem with this, but that t-shirt has to be clean, those jeans have to look clean and not ripped apart, clean, nice shoes.
00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:25.519
You uh either clean shaven for the gentleman or trimmed appropriately, ladies with a nice uh hair dude that that looks good, uh, clean dress, clean pants, uh clothes that are not wrinkled, that look that you just pull them out of a bottle.
00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:26.719
Yeah, look the part.
00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:28.559
See, absolutely.
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:47.360
I mean, so we want to be professionals, we want to be treated like professionals, we want to be paid like professionals, but sometimes we don't want to do the things that professionals do, and that's why sometimes I've said this before, and I'll say it again sometimes we opticians are our own worst enemies.
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:58.239
Yeah, I see what you're saying, and I think the interesting thing about your role is because of how many you know, forums and places you've been in front of and people that you've been able to talk to.
00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:06.400
And like you said, it's it's one thing when it's an identity of a place and there's scrubs or something, or maybe if you're near a beach and everyone wears sandals, or whatever.
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:13.519
You know, whatever the case may be, you know, every place is going to be different and the tone's gonna be different and it's gonna fit in a certain way.
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:19.679
But carry yourself the right way, look the right way, be professional, be in that moment.
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:22.960
Uh it's it's part of how it comes across.
00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:28.400
You know, you don't get the luxury of being that half-pass or professor because that's not you.
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:33.920
You don't get to look like that guy who just crawled out of bed and is teaching in front of a class.
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:37.760
And I don't know about you, but I've had a few of those in my day.
00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:42.480
Um you have to get an online ordering story from you.
00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:48.480
That's the other new segment that I like to add to these conversations is a good or a bad or an ugly.
00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:53.920
I'm sure you have an online ordering story to reference from from your experience.
00:57:54.480 --> 00:58:11.360
I've I've had a number of people that ask me uh how why online ordering is so cheap compared to uh to what we offer in office, and I tell them, you know, there is a place for everything.
00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:37.360
And you know, uh online does provide some some service to a segment, but I also say this in the years that I've been doing this, I have only seen one of all the pairs that I've checked from online, I've only seen one pair that would pass the C87 uh C80.1 standard.
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:52.239
I once saw a progressive that was tilted 45 degrees, PDs way off, optical centers non-existent, progressive with with a seg way too high, way too low.
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:59.280
Uh, you know, find pick a defect, any defect from the C80.1 standard.
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:00.639
I've seen them all.
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:07.519
As a matter of fact, that one pair stuck with me because it's like these pass.
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:09.440
By golly, these pass.
00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:14.559
I was I was flabbergasted.
00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:26.320
And again, you know, and the other thing that I tell people is that you have in those places a lot of worker bees, and they're trying to do God's work.
00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:35.119
I get it, they're trying to do things, but they know the mechanics without understanding the optics behind a pair of glasses.
00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:42.800
And I would love to think that I'm all that because I know how to generate and grind and edge and all that good stuff.
00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:45.760
You can teach a child to edge.
00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:56.239
Anyone can edge, you put them in front of a machine with a little training, they'll be able to mount any kind of lens on any kind of frame.
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:58.239
Well, it's not that difficult.
00:59:58.639 --> 01:00:01.599
If I can do it, anyone can do it.
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:03.360
That's a downside.
01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:12.880
Well, however, having said that, and that's the other thing, sometimes the technology has been taking the thinking out of the process.
01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:14.079
Right.
01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:18.079
And I think that that is a big minus for new technologies.
01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:27.599
When they make it so easy that you don't have to think about what you're doing, you just have to press a button here, a button there.
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:41.599
Just make sure that the lens is inside of the machine when you're going to edge, as opposed to how do I need to place the bevel so it looks better on this particular frame?
01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:46.480
Or am I understanding the curvatures of the lens?
01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:53.119
So this frame that the patient wants is not definitely the best option.
01:00:53.679 --> 01:01:02.000
Like this lady once that came to me, she was a plus nine, and she wanted a drill mount in a butterfly shape.
01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:10.719
It's like lady, I I I I hate to break your heart, but I don't want to disappoint you.
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:16.320
And I took a piece of paper and made a picture of how that pair of glasses would look.
01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:18.559
And she said, you know what?
01:01:18.639 --> 01:01:22.800
You're the first one who ever took the time to explain this to me.
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:53.360
It's like, it's not that I don't want to do it for you because I would love to give you exactly what you want, but me as a professional, I sometimes have to say no, because I'm the one who knows that that's not gonna work, and then as a professional, I have to explain to the patient why that is not going to work, and again, you know, professionals doing what professionals do now.
01:01:53.599 --> 01:02:05.599
And again, in some places, they tell you just sell whatever without any regard of whether that's gonna look bad, ugly, hideous, or it's gonna look great.
01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:13.599
It's you know, you put a minus a pair of minus ones on almost any frame is gonna look great.
01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:20.719
But when you're talking a minus seven, a plus nine, let's with four diopters of cylinder.
01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:23.360
Well, now you have to start thinking.
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:39.440
And again, you know, we as opticians, we need to do the thinking right from when the doctor hands you the chart, and you see, okay, so on this one, there's no problems.
01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:46.320
Let's pick a frame, whatever frame you want, and let's let's now start talking about lifestyle questions.
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:47.760
What's your aesthetic?
01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:49.599
What are you the cool colors?
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:50.719
Are you the warm colors?
01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:51.440
Are you an autumn?
01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:52.320
Are you a spring?
01:02:52.480 --> 01:03:01.840
Are you a uh you know, as opposed to okay, drill mount is out of the question for this prescription, right?
01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:02.480
Mr.
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:06.079
Smith, let me show you this frames over here.
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:08.079
How about those?
01:03:08.239 --> 01:03:11.920
Well, with your prescription, that's not going to be the best result.
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:19.760
And and again, you know, uh sometimes we as opticians are afraid to say no.
01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:26.639
And it's it's not having to say no, it's the way that you say no.
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:30.159
Then you have the people say, you know what?
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:32.239
Nobody ever explained that to me.
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:33.199
Thank you.
01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:36.000
What would you think it worked best for me?
01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:37.360
Well, let me show you.
01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:40.639
I have just the thing that would work great.
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:47.840
When you have a patient that is a minus 12, that you find a frame that you can hide all that thickness within the eye wire.
01:03:48.239 --> 01:03:57.599
And when the patient comes, pick up the glasses, and holds it to the side and cannot see anything protruding from the eye wire, and he's just like, wow.
01:03:58.000 --> 01:03:58.639
Right.
01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:00.639
Yeah.
01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:05.119
And then, of course, you go, Yes, we we that's what we do here.
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:06.639
We take care of people.
01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:09.920
It it comes down to that.
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:13.440
I mean, it ultimately that's what it ends up shifting back to.
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:22.719
Yeah, while you were talking, I was thinking of several instances where technology can literally assist as opposed to pulling away.
01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:27.760
Um I I envision an optician working with a patient and insurance.
01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:39.199
And, you know, quite honestly, to pull away from that dialogue to calculate, you know, is just kind of a disservice to the work the optician's actually doing.
01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:42.079
The optician should be able to go, you know, hey, blah, blah, blah.
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:42.800
So Mrs.
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:47.199
So-and-so has this, she's getting this AR, she's got this index and this frame.
01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:48.159
What's your bill?
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:49.840
And you're right back to her.
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:53.920
Now, you know, as long as everything's up a compliant, this works well.
01:04:54.079 --> 01:05:00.960
These are technologies that are going to be immersive, they're going to be used effectively, they're being rolled out.
01:05:01.039 --> 01:05:08.079
Um, there'll be pilots, I'll predict, this fall, uh, for product that is exactly like that.
01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:10.400
Uh highly useful.
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:17.599
I don't know about you, but I've been in independent dispensaries recently where I'm like, oh my gosh, like we're not even going to have this meeting.
01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:21.039
There's four people standing there with brains, and there's one optician over there.
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:25.599
It's like, you're not, we're not gonna have our meeting today, and blah, blah, blah.
01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:32.400
But the reality is there's ways of speeding this up that aren't threatening to the industry, but they need to see them in action.
01:05:32.480 --> 01:05:40.400
So I think pilots are a little bit easier way to introduce some of the new technologies that that don't really make a lot of sense or are a little disconnected.
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:59.760
It is and and good that you should mention that because I think some of the disconnect happens when those people that create these technologies, smart as they are, don't have the frame of reference or having an optician put out.
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:10.800
Eyes on what they're working on to tell them that's cool, that makes sense, and okay, this is not as good.
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:17.280
You could do it this way, so it works better with all the cool parts here.
01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:25.840
Uh, and again, I've I've worked with some EHR products that are good that that that they take into consideration.
01:06:26.079 --> 01:06:38.639
I'm pretty sure that they sat down with a couple of opticians and asked how the process goes, so it makes it easier for you to go from point A to point B without taking too many detours.
01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:40.559
And there's a couple of them.
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:50.239
Um that definitely it's it's just uh medical.
01:06:51.679 --> 01:06:53.280
They're just medical, you know.
01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:58.559
I don't want to call any names out, but the one of the biggest, most popular ones right now is perfect for medical belly.
01:06:58.719 --> 01:07:07.599
But if you want an optician and just look for a slot to enter the current in an old, old and a new prescription, it's like good luck, you know, you gotta throw it in a note somewhere.
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:09.119
You know, it's it doesn't make sense.
01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:12.559
You know, there's there's definitely disconnects you like you nailed it.
01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:15.599
You can tell the EHRs where they actually talk to an optician.
01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.239
Wow, that's that's look at those fields.
01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:20.159
You got that because you talked to an optician.
01:07:20.239 --> 01:07:23.679
Not you're not not because you're billing for some code, you know.
01:07:23.920 --> 01:07:33.920
But that's a whole that's a whole other hour, to be quite honest, uh, with you to get into the insurance mayhem and and whatnot.
01:07:34.079 --> 01:07:36.239
Uh this has been a fantastic discussion.
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:39.039
And I really actually, you know, we talked about this before.
01:07:39.199 --> 01:07:50.480
There's we could go on for at least another 40 minutes uh about the steps of education and how it's being implemented on the ground, certification, how certification moves into licensure.
01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:53.679
We talked a little bit about it, but there's no real roadmap.
01:07:53.840 --> 01:08:07.519
So we don't really know how uh as these state societies and associations form uh how is the UOA going to be a central access point to show how this works?
01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:10.079
Does the UOA want to be friendly with ODs?
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:10.719
Do they care?
01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:14.320
You know, there's a lot of things that are in these gray areas that we just don't know.
01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:20.720
Good that you should ask, because actually the UOA is working on that right now.
01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:35.119
Uh the pathway to certification, uh the pathway to certification, the pathways to education, because we've recognized that not every single person that to begin with me.
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:43.279
I did not go to an opticianary school, and I had to learn by making things wrong what right looks like.
01:08:44.159 --> 01:09:25.760
So the UOA is working right now on paths to certification, pathways to education, both in the formal in school and the um informal, the apprenticeship, and we are putting a lot of time and resources, and this is going to take some time, but I think that at the end of the process, I am very confident that we're gonna have, for lack of a better term, a national model that any state can come and say, All right, so we want to do this, how do we do it?
01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:30.720
And then we can look at them and say, Well, it depends.
01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:34.239
You can do this, this, this, and this.
01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:42.239
If we are opening a an opticianary school in your state or schools, the more the merrier.
01:09:42.720 --> 01:10:02.800
Or if you don't have those resources right now, these are the things that we think are at least the very minimal for you to get a quality apprenticeship and education so you end up with a competent, knowledgeable optician.
01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:06.960
So, yes, we are working on that right now.
01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:21.199
Do we do you the UOA do is there an uh is are they mutually exclusive, uh apprenticeship versus school, or are they if do they both work together in school?
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:27.199
Well, again, and again, they cannot be mutually exclusive.
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:28.800
Um I don't think they should be.
01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:35.680
But I hear but I hear the pull either way sometimes for well, if we can't affirm a ship, we'll give you as many hours in school.
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:39.760
But well, here's here's here's the situation here.
01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:45.680
The truth is there's not enough schools to go around.
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:48.399
Okay, and that is a two-year degree.
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:55.359
Now, a lot of people in our industry they learn on the job.
01:10:55.760 --> 01:11:07.760
Now, in the state of Georgia, the law recognizes apprenticeship a minimum of 3,000 hours under the direct supervision of a doctor or another licensed optician.
01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:12.159
There are some states that require 8,000 hours.
01:11:12.640 --> 01:11:29.680
So, what we're trying to work here is a model that we can go to both licensed and unlicensed state and say, hey, we've been studying this, we've been seeing what seems to work on other states.
01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:49.199
Because the other thing that the UOA wants to create is the environment for opticians to be able to move from state to state to state to state without having to jump through hoops after hoop after hoop after hoop to be able to practice as opticians.
01:11:49.520 --> 01:12:12.000
So we're looking at a very broad, holistic approach of what is it that needs to happen to end up with an optician or contact lens practitioner that is competent and educated enough that they can face a patient and provide quality care.
01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:35.680
So uh we're the education committee uh in the UOA has a now a subcommittee that is dealing exclusively with apprenticeship, and and that that subcommittee is going to be working on all right, so what exactly is an apprenticeship?
01:12:36.079 --> 01:12:37.359
Who is an apprentice?
01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:40.800
Who is the one who is going to be supervising the apprentice?
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:41.520
Right.
01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:44.000
How does that work on a licensed state?
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:46.960
How does that work in an unlicensed state?
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:51.600
Are those going those two going to be equivalent?
01:12:52.960 --> 01:13:15.439
So there's we have identified a number of questions that we need to answer ourselves before we put pen to paper and say this is what needs to happen, or this is what should happen, but we need to and we're at this point we're in the process of uh research.
01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:33.680
We're researching a lot of information to make sure that when we say something, we can uh we because we're looking at uh national federal definitions of uh jobs descriptions.
01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:41.600
So we're pulling from that and we're looking at what uh license states are saying.
01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:51.920
See the the big advantage in unlicensed states since they don't have any standard, you put a standard and it works.
01:13:52.640 --> 01:14:06.560
They may tweak it a little down the road, but you can suggest a standard for apprenticeship or education by going to school or doing object job training and all that good stuff.
01:14:06.880 --> 01:14:17.760
You throw that into there in a state that has no legal framework to constrain or guide the process, right?
01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:18.640
It's easy.
01:14:18.800 --> 01:14:22.720
You say, Oh, they they look at it and say, Oh, that's worked, let's do this.
01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:42.800
In a licensed state, first we have to see what the law says, how do they apply that law, and how the framework that we create will play, or if there are going to be any law changes for it to work.
01:14:44.319 --> 01:14:54.319
So this is going to take some work and some time, but we have some really brilliant minds on on uh it does sound involved.
01:14:54.960 --> 01:15:00.479
It sounds a little bit more involved than it's not as easy as a stroke of a pen or pushing stuff over from A to B.
01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:01.920
Absolutely, absolutely.
01:15:02.079 --> 01:15:06.079
I mean, it's going to require we're meeting every two weeks.
01:15:06.399 --> 01:15:21.359
Well, you know, and and I think something that you and I have kind of established in this dialogue is that we were kind of kicking the tires of those opticians that, you know, are like, I know my stuff, and uh a little bit of an elitist attitude.
01:15:21.520 --> 01:15:42.640
But let's take that on the ground if you're in a state that higher that that that implements uh a licensure and a higher standard and a measure of what an optician is, and then there's a border nearby where they don't take that seriously, even though there could be a fantastic seasoned optician in that geography, you know, that doesn't have the backing for that.
01:15:42.800 --> 01:15:45.840
I'm describing a scenario that makes a whole lot of sense.
01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:56.800
You mentioned Florida, New Jersey, these states that have very strong, you know, optician cultures, demands, ECEs, all of that, uh others, other states, you said too as well.
01:15:56.880 --> 01:16:06.880
But you know, so if you're bordering that, I I don't know, I kind of have an understanding of we've laid the foreground where look, I've done my just desserts.
01:16:07.119 --> 01:16:15.920
I'm, you know, because of the state I'm in, you know, it's it's it shows the work that I've done, and I'm licensed and I've jumped through these loops.
01:16:16.079 --> 01:16:23.600
But because this person didn't overhear, you know, how I see the problem.
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:26.640
I see the disconnect between those two opticians.
01:16:26.720 --> 01:16:27.199
You know, I see it.
01:16:27.279 --> 01:16:29.439
They could both be in an independent environment.
01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:32.640
They're not gonna relate or agree with one's particular bullet.
01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:36.960
So it's just these are all the foreground is already divided.
01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:40.880
You know, the foundation we're trying to build on is a little bit fractured.
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:49.600
So we've got to figure out a way to kind of level that out in a way so that we build on top of something that's got a solid foundation.
01:16:49.680 --> 01:17:02.319
And if it's rocky, the attitudes are just, they don't serve anything other than the individual, but if it's real, and I kind of understand why.
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:11.840
Uh through talking to you, you know, I would say that that's something that the beginning of this conversation that I didn't necessarily I was highly against the arrogant optician.
01:17:11.920 --> 01:17:18.000
But as you've explained some of what you've just been explaining, it's like the condition could exist to piss them off.
01:17:18.159 --> 01:17:20.319
And I completely understand that.
01:17:20.560 --> 01:17:21.520
Does that make sense?
01:17:21.680 --> 01:17:31.760
I mean, and yeah, but and and the other thing is, you know, uh and again, going back to to the sad reality that sometimes we opticians are our worst enemies, right?
01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:38.560
You have opticians that have been doing this for years and years and years in an unlicensed state.
01:17:38.720 --> 01:17:41.600
It's like I don't need a license, I know how to do my job.
01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:42.479
Right.
01:17:42.800 --> 01:18:01.279
And without understanding what the what protections a a title protection and the protections that it affords the the buying public against malpractice, malfeasance, or other illegal conducts?
01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:17.039
And again, you know, starting with the fact that some opticians, quote unquote, opticians only know how to take a PD and sell a frame, and they consider themselves opticians.
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:22.239
Uh and why do I have to pay for a license?
01:18:22.399 --> 01:18:26.720
Why do I have to pay for continued education process uh courses?
01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:28.720
Why do I have to spend money on this?
01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:31.359
I just want to work and get my paycheck, right?
01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:35.039
As opposed to, you know what?
01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:37.199
I I don't know all of it.
01:18:37.439 --> 01:18:38.960
I I need to learn.
01:18:39.279 --> 01:18:42.640
Oh Fernell Walker's speaking over there.
01:18:42.720 --> 01:18:44.319
Oh, Sierra Colleagues is speaking.
01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:46.000
Carrie Wilson is speaking.
01:18:46.479 --> 01:18:49.920
This Pablo Mercado guy, I don't know him, but he seems he seems all right.
01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:51.920
I mean, let me let me check him out.
01:18:52.159 --> 01:19:05.520
Uh and and again, you know what what we are also trying to do in the UOA is is trying to change some of the perceptions within our own industry.
01:19:06.479 --> 01:19:57.840
I am very happy to report that some of the largest employers of opticians, and I'm referring to big boxes, and I'm not gonna mention names to protect the guilty, they're starting to realize the value of having a certified, educated, competent optician as opposed to having a worker be in their money they're not losing to remakes and in customer dissatisfaction, and they're approaching us to say, hey, how can we get our people certified andor licensed, whatever the case may be, which is a huge step forward.
01:19:58.159 --> 01:20:02.079
Yeah, I think that they oh I don't care.
01:20:02.319 --> 01:20:31.199
Hopefully, I'm not offending you you by saying it, but I am highly aware of at least in the instance of what you're describing, and I will gladly say the term Walmart, is phenomenally investing in the reality that they know well, they're a very unique situation because of how huge they are, and how a chunk of them they own themselves, and how they can instantaneously relay education.
01:20:31.279 --> 01:20:36.079
And their smartest clientele often gravitate into the optical.
01:20:36.319 --> 01:20:43.279
And they they know, so they see that, but then they also know who the monopoly is.
01:20:44.079 --> 01:20:51.279
And they're choosing their partnerships in a very interesting way, and their top investment plan is education.
01:20:51.439 --> 01:21:02.399
I believe that you're if you're gonna be an optician inside of Walmart, uh, you're either studying for to be certified or it's going to be on your calendar, you're not gonna be working there.
01:21:02.560 --> 01:21:04.640
And here in Georgia, great.
01:21:04.720 --> 01:21:05.760
I think that's fantastic.
01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:07.920
I really, really believe in that.
01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:11.680
Here in Georgia, they're not hiring non-licensed.
01:21:11.760 --> 01:21:23.600
I I I've I see a lot of uh ads from Walmart asking for people, and they the first and foremost they require is the state license.
01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:35.199
And uh again, and and to their credit, I have walked past my local several, I have several Walmarts that are kind of local to me.
01:21:35.359 --> 01:21:48.239
And I've seen people when they have people that are not licensed, and they have a sign prominently displayed that say they are not going to dispense glasses because there's not a license optician on duty.
01:21:48.479 --> 01:21:51.359
And I that's props to them.
01:21:51.439 --> 01:21:56.720
I I think that's that's I I think that's a really great step forward.
01:21:56.880 --> 01:22:17.680
Uh, if others and again, they are starting to realize how much money they have lost over time for having people that just have a very, very, very, very basic understanding of just the sales part.
01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:28.319
They know the sales part, but they don't understand the optics, which creates a level of dissatisfaction that costs them money, plus the remakes.
01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:30.960
Yeah, they clearly know it.
01:22:31.119 --> 01:22:37.600
They clearly know, like when because there's no certification, there's no requirements in Pennsylvania at all where I am.
01:22:37.920 --> 01:22:51.279
And they are making it a full-on requirement everywhere, it's not just one place, it's they're investing in the education of optician iCare because they know it's profitable.
01:22:51.520 --> 01:22:51.920
Absolutely.
01:22:52.239 --> 01:22:55.199
If Walmart's investing in it, it's gonna make them money.
01:22:55.520 --> 01:23:05.520
But I think that it's amazing to look at that entity that went from shaving pennies on whatever, you know, maximize the profit of whatever we're putting on our shelves.
01:23:05.840 --> 01:23:17.199
They took that model to a flip side where they're investing and they can see the fiscal benefit of their business model to have educated outficials.
01:23:17.439 --> 01:23:23.119
If that doesn't tell every state to wait the up and get your stuff going, I don't know what does.
01:23:23.279 --> 01:23:26.319
If Walmart knows it, you need to know it.
01:23:27.039 --> 01:23:45.520
Well, you know, and there's there's a number of states uh that they don't think any kind of license is is particularly necessary, and then of course that goes with uh the UOA and other entities talking to them and saying, listen, this is the why.
01:23:45.680 --> 01:23:50.800
This is not because we think that we are hoity-toity and all that good stuff.
01:23:50.960 --> 01:23:57.359
I mean, it's nice to have the title and the what I like to call the alphabet soup behind my name.
01:23:57.600 --> 01:23:58.880
Yeah, that's cool.
01:23:58.960 --> 01:24:00.079
That's that's that's cool.
01:24:00.159 --> 01:24:03.760
I having the certificates hanging in there, cool.
01:24:03.920 --> 01:24:05.279
That's the cool factor.
01:24:05.439 --> 01:24:16.640
But the the truth of the matter is, is in a licensed state, both the licensed optician and the public has have protections under the law, right?
01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:32.399
So uh it's it's a matter of educating, see, and and lawmakers in general, they they are looking at the way that the wind is blowing and they move.
01:24:32.560 --> 01:24:35.119
Uh isn't that the truth?
01:24:35.840 --> 01:24:39.520
You know, but that is a great way for dealing with that.
01:24:40.239 --> 01:25:21.279
But and and that's why sometimes passing law takes so long, and and and again, you know, one of the things that we've been doing is we're trying to educate lawmakers, we're trying to educate some opticians, we're trying to educate some of the employers because you have an employer, you have both an independent and until recently, many of the big bosses to say, I just pick Joe from the street and tell him how to teach him how to take a PD and how to sell, and they're my optician, and that's that, and they they're running under my license.
01:25:21.600 --> 01:25:23.520
That's what happened during COVID.
01:25:24.079 --> 01:25:30.079
So whole bunch of opticians in their 50s were not invited back uh after COVID.
01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:39.760
And it was a massive displacement there that I wonder, you know, sometime in the future we'll talk about it, but right now it's it's a sore topic, so you we don't really go too deep into it.
01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:45.920
I I certainly do the best I can to put them behind a computer, verification level, any any level that we can.
01:25:46.239 --> 01:25:48.159
Some more city wolves going by.
01:25:48.479 --> 01:26:04.960
Um I I I do want to give you a chance to um, you know, if there's anything that that that that you want to speak to, uh by all means, you know, let's let's wrap this up with some, you know, if there's something that we haven't hit on that that you want to uh you know say, by all means uh do that.
01:26:05.199 --> 01:26:18.880
Um to me the the thing that the thing that keeps ringing through these conversations regarding opticians is how can education plug in seamlessly?
01:26:19.039 --> 01:26:33.359
How can a place um that has fragmented representation of opticians, you know, Delaware, Maryland, how can they galvanize uh into state societies that are really easy to do through the UOA?
01:26:33.760 --> 01:26:42.159
And and and I think that you know as you get the work you guys are doing is spectacular, but as you move forward, try to think of you know all the cookie-cutter ways.
01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:55.279
And I know you are, it's kind of sounds like sounds like the work that you guys, the the legal groups are doing, but you know, how this can be done and how certification can move towards licensure with schools.
01:26:55.520 --> 01:27:01.439
Um, as any information that we can see with that, we know that hasn't happened.
01:27:01.680 --> 01:27:07.199
Um how resistant is it to move quickly through that?
01:27:07.359 --> 01:27:13.199
You know, to use certification as a stepping stone and become a licensed state with a school or two or three.
01:27:13.359 --> 01:27:15.760
Pennsylvania has the ability to do this, by the way.
01:27:17.439 --> 01:27:27.600
Here's a number of things that we're working on at the same time to try to gras the to to get the uh the effect that we're trying to to get.
01:27:29.680 --> 01:27:38.000
Again, in a perfect world, we would have at least one opticianary school uh in every state.
01:27:40.079 --> 01:27:53.279
That the first thing that presents is uh where are we going to get the professors that are capable of preparing those opticians to go to that school?
01:27:54.479 --> 01:28:01.359
And then is a school going to be successful if it's an online Licensed state.
01:28:02.479 --> 01:28:17.039
What we're trying to do to make the long story short is move the needle to the point that more states than not are licensed because then the dominoes start falling.
01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:41.439
That's why we have our our efforts that we're trying to help in Pennsylvania and we're trying to uh uh we're trying to help um each state that is not licensed and some states that are licensed to build or to reinforce their uh opticians association.
01:28:41.760 --> 01:29:23.279
We're trying to explain to them why that state association gives them power to go to the representatives in their state and say, hey, we as opticians need this for whatever reason, and then of course, you know, gives them the tools, and and that's one of the things that the UOA is helping a number, gives them the tool and the information so they can go in form to talk to a a lawmaker and to be able to present a case for certification first and eventually licensure.
01:29:23.840 --> 01:29:33.600
Uh and again, you know, you have a number of interests that would love to have a minimum wage worker selling glasses.
01:29:34.720 --> 01:29:48.399
And when you have an educated, highly trained, highly professional, that is going to elevate the pay scale dramatically.
01:29:49.520 --> 01:30:00.239
So I again, you know, we as opticians, and I will say this I am well paid when I'm work.
01:30:01.119 --> 01:30:10.079
Thank God, I'm I'm well paid, and I am well paid, not because of my dashing good looks, my sexy laughing accent, and my mustache.
01:30:10.319 --> 01:30:29.119
Maybe it's it's because when the doctor asks me a question regarding a pair of glasses, I can tell look him in the eye or her and say, This is what happened with this pair of glasses, and and what he comes or she comes with a question, what can we do for this patient?
01:30:29.439 --> 01:30:30.960
We have an answer.
01:30:32.159 --> 01:30:39.920
I can edge, I can mount, I can prepare, I can tap dance too, if the case requires.
01:30:41.119 --> 01:30:42.000
Sometimes.
01:30:43.039 --> 01:30:44.960
We've certainly been on the hot floor or two.
01:30:45.680 --> 01:30:59.199
And the other, and the other thing, you know, sometimes you have to be the listening ear and the psychologist, and the and you have to go, and and sometimes you have to provide tough love.
01:30:59.439 --> 01:30:59.680
Mr.
01:30:59.760 --> 01:31:03.920
Jones, I am not going to do that for you because that is not going to work.
01:31:04.720 --> 01:31:10.800
And if you want to go someplace else that they're going to do that to you, be my guest.
01:31:11.039 --> 01:31:14.319
I am not going to put my license in danger.
01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:17.840
And I say it with a smile, too.
01:31:18.479 --> 01:31:35.680
Well, again, it's there when you take what you do very, very seriously, uh, when you know you're filling a prescribed item, it's, you know, it should just be a natural extension of who you are and what you do, how how you handle that, you know.
01:31:35.840 --> 01:31:37.840
That's it's a medical device.
01:31:38.239 --> 01:31:38.800
Right.
01:31:39.119 --> 01:31:39.840
Exactly.
01:31:40.079 --> 01:31:41.359
That is exactly right.
01:31:41.520 --> 01:32:10.560
You know, and and that sometimes the medical device aspect gets used the wrong way, but I think at the end of the day, uh the the optician, you know, the optician portion of getting any set of glasses, you know, there isn't there isn't a single place where where it ends up being okay to, you know, go and fill your prescription yourself.
01:32:10.800 --> 01:32:17.680
You know, you it's not like walking into bulk foods and scooping out however many pills you need, dumping them in your bag and going and buying them.
01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:20.720
You know, it's not nowhere else does that.
01:32:21.039 --> 01:32:30.880
You know, and and yet, you know, and and I've heard I've heard people with the Vision Council talk about this, and I've heard, you know, many, many uh uh dialogues.
01:32:31.039 --> 01:32:36.479
Gwen on her podcast, she's had several people she's talked very straightforward about that.
01:32:36.720 --> 01:32:49.840
Look, you know, this is uh the way to be, this is the seat to take, this is a level of pride, like you talked about earlier, how you carry yourself, the the way you handle things, uh a temperament.
01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:52.560
Um I know we're cool ties too.
01:32:54.319 --> 01:33:05.520
You know, there's a temperament to figuring out a problem tenaciously, and then looking straight into a patient's face and saying, we know this, we got this, we figured this out, this we're not sure of.
01:33:05.680 --> 01:33:06.800
You know, how are we gonna go?
01:33:06.880 --> 01:33:08.479
How are we gonna go about the next step?
01:33:08.720 --> 01:33:11.199
Because, you know, it's okay.
01:33:11.600 --> 01:33:13.279
You've hit on it so many times.
01:33:13.439 --> 01:33:18.159
You know a lot, but you're more than happy to say that there's stuff you don't know.
01:33:18.479 --> 01:33:24.000
And I think that there's just a genuine essence there that is a massive takeaway.
01:33:24.159 --> 01:33:25.279
It's okay.
01:33:25.520 --> 01:33:28.399
It's okay to be a master optician and not know something.
01:33:28.560 --> 01:33:30.239
It's perfectly okay.
01:33:30.399 --> 01:33:35.199
Um, if all you've ever seen is lousy to this crutch, you don't know what a good one looks like.
01:33:35.520 --> 01:33:38.319
I mean, it's let's be real, you know.
01:33:38.880 --> 01:33:49.760
If you've never taken apart a set of Franklins and watched two lenses fall on the table and you thought it was an executive, you how could you how you've not experienced that?
01:33:49.840 --> 01:33:50.800
It's okay.
01:33:50.960 --> 01:33:52.319
There's nothing wrong with you.
01:33:52.479 --> 01:33:55.600
We don't need to gatekeep, we don't need to bash or beat down.
01:33:55.680 --> 01:34:01.680
And I think that the biggest thing that's happening with the UOA is the coming together of this to destigmatize some of it.
01:34:01.920 --> 01:34:05.039
Let's make this a friendlier environment going forward.
01:34:05.199 --> 01:34:08.640
We talk about friendly, we talk about being open to knowing.
01:34:08.880 --> 01:34:22.720
And, you know, I don't know about you, uh or anyone else listening, but it's very refreshing to hear the head of education with the ABO open very clearly and say, I'm not the brightest, but I'm learning every day.
01:34:22.800 --> 01:34:25.600
And I'm here to learn, and I know I want to learn.
01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:28.960
And that's the core of opticians, it really is.
01:34:29.199 --> 01:34:30.720
I think it's awesome.
01:34:31.199 --> 01:34:48.720
I tell you what, you know, I each each day I I talk with a number of opticians of varying degrees of knowledge and experience, and and you know, I I am happy to to share whatever little I know, uh and I listen to what they have to say.
01:34:49.119 --> 01:35:16.800
And sometimes they say things that are like, that's going in my book, and sometimes they say, Well, yeah, you say this, but let's let's look at this in a different way, and and then you can guide that misconception into something that they can use productively and dispel the misconception while feeling at the same time that you're not trying to beat them to a pulp.
01:35:17.279 --> 01:35:24.720
You're saying, hey, I I'm trying to bring you to my level, I want you you to be strong in the optical force.
01:35:27.199 --> 01:35:42.000
Well, uh, and even like you talked about the the levels and uh the pathway to becoming a master, I learned a tremendous amount just talking to you this morning uh about how that has shifted in a really good way.
01:35:42.479 --> 01:35:49.439
Um, the education, the courses, uh how that impacts uh the rest of the industry.
01:35:49.680 --> 01:35:53.039
I mean, to me, the master should be reaching in that way.
01:35:53.119 --> 01:35:58.720
It shouldn't be that they they get to the top of the hill and put their crown on and they're king of the hill.
01:35:58.960 --> 01:36:06.399
Um, I'm not suggesting that, like you said, it's okay to wear those bars and to have that acknowledgement and it strikes conversations, which is wonderful.
01:36:06.479 --> 01:36:07.840
All those things are wonderful.
01:36:08.079 --> 01:36:13.279
But you know, boots on the ground, uh eyes behind glasses.
01:36:13.520 --> 01:36:15.840
And you know, it's and I'll tell you this.
01:36:16.159 --> 01:36:17.039
I'll tell you this.
01:36:17.199 --> 01:36:20.800
There's only 84 masters of ABO in the world.
01:36:21.039 --> 01:36:22.319
That's really cool.
01:36:22.640 --> 01:36:23.760
And you know what?
01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:28.720
If I could make it, I'm pretty sure a lot of people out there can.
01:36:29.199 --> 01:36:43.039
And I'm saying I I use my position as a master optician to bring people and say, hey, listen, I'm not the bright bulb and the chandelier, and I made it.
01:36:43.199 --> 01:36:52.000
You can do it if you apply yourself and you and you put in the time and the uh and the effort, you can do it.
01:36:52.159 --> 01:37:00.880
Right you can walk around with the pin and the alphabet soup behind your name, and and that gives you the gravitas.
01:37:01.199 --> 01:37:09.439
Because when uh again, when you're talking to a patient that has an idea that he was told by Dr.
01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:14.239
Google, and then you say, Well, that Dr.
01:37:14.319 --> 01:37:24.159
Google may have said that, but I am a master optician, and and I can assure you, ma'am, sir, uh, that does not apply in your case.
01:37:24.399 --> 01:37:24.800
Right.
01:37:24.960 --> 01:37:27.279
And this is the reason why.
01:37:27.840 --> 01:37:30.079
And that's what they're looking for very often.
01:37:30.239 --> 01:37:38.319
Very often, people that come in armed with data and things like that, they're looking for a conversation that most of them aren't always up to one up you.
01:37:38.720 --> 01:37:43.359
There are, they do exist, and we know they exist, but most of them are just looking for data.
01:37:43.600 --> 01:37:47.760
So, you know, I think that we need to flip a little bit of our mindset with that too.
01:37:47.840 --> 01:37:50.640
And I think people, opticians have done a pretty good job with that.
01:37:50.800 --> 01:37:59.279
The other thing I think that we're trying to break down and move through right now is the repair or the diagnosis, like we mentioned, of online orders that have gone wrong.
01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:08.079
Obviously, it's a sore spot, it's a spot of contention, but you know, at the end of the day, there could be 6,001 reasons why the patient in front of you did it.
01:38:08.479 --> 01:38:14.239
Um our job is to diagnose why and what the course of action is to make sure they can see clearly.
01:38:14.560 --> 01:38:16.800
What they do after that is on them.
01:38:16.960 --> 01:38:26.640
Um, but I do think that it can be a nuisance and it can pull away from productivity of a practice, and there are tools to there are companies like ours to get away from that.
01:38:26.800 --> 01:38:30.399
Have other opticians handle it remotely, have a course of action be laid out for you.
01:38:30.560 --> 01:38:35.279
If it's pervasive and you don't have a way of connecting online, there are ways to handle it.
01:38:35.680 --> 01:38:38.000
Pablo, this has been a fantastic conversation.
01:38:38.239 --> 01:38:43.520
To me, uh the future is bright, you know, and no doubt.
01:38:44.079 --> 01:39:00.399
I think that the that the industry as a whole is starting to realize some things that that we collectively have been doing wrong, not willfully, right, just wrong because we didn't know any better.
01:39:00.720 --> 01:39:16.079
And at some point we have had this moment of of uh collective realization that there's some things that we're doing that are just not serving our ourselves and the people that depend on us for their visual care.
01:39:16.560 --> 01:39:28.239
And I think that uh within the span of 20 years, I I truly believe that opticianry is going to be so much better.
01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:30.960
And and I'm excited.
01:39:31.039 --> 01:39:40.720
I don't know how much time I'm going to be around, and maybe if I'll if the good Lord allows me to be around to see all the changes that are coming.
01:39:42.000 --> 01:39:46.800
I I would say the time to become an optician if you're not an optician is now.
01:39:47.359 --> 01:39:55.520
So you can see and experience the progression and the changes for the better that are coming down the pipeline.
01:39:56.880 --> 01:40:01.439
Uh couldn't have wrapped this interview up any better than what you just said there.
01:40:01.520 --> 01:40:03.119
And I completely agree with you.
01:40:03.199 --> 01:40:08.960
You know, this is it's a game-changing time, and it's a really amazing time to be involved in optical.
01:40:09.039 --> 01:40:14.720
But an optician seat, you know, there's there's you know, 20 some odd licensed states.
01:40:14.800 --> 01:40:20.159
You know, we we've got work to do, but you're right, we're in the fast lane, and we do have the right people in the right seats.
01:40:20.399 --> 01:40:23.920
So it's it's an absolutely awesome time.
01:40:24.159 --> 01:40:25.840
Well, thank you so much, everybody.
01:40:25.920 --> 01:40:28.560
This has been another episode of Optimetry Profits Reveal.
01:40:28.640 --> 01:40:44.640
Please take our practice growth quiz if you wouldn't uh if you'd like to get a clue of where your practice ranks technology wise, and we connect in with Conversion Ops, which is uh our version of Web Ups Website Updates and Data Analysis.
01:40:44.880 --> 01:40:46.640
Thank you so much, Pablo.
01:40:46.800 --> 01:40:47.760
Take care, everybody.