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Dr. McGee, John Calvin and the Apostle Paul Discuss Ongoing Sovereignty Theology

A note on this dialogue: This is a constructed, imaginative conversation created with AI assistance. The historical figures depicted here did not meet, and in some cases did not live in the same era. This exchange never took place — no statement here should be taken as a real quotation or a record of an actual event. It is a teaching device for exploring ideas. For the actual positions of Ongoing Sovereignty Theology, see the eight doctrines and the book.

Note about this interaction produced using Grok 3: I began to explorer this ability of AI to extract the thoughts and opinions of great men who we will not get a chance to speak with until we arrive in heaven. However it must be said that even though it likely does a great job capturing the essence of what they might have said… they did not have this conversation. So please to not reference or quote this material as if these men did say these things but rater that they likely might have.

[mike] Hey everyone, welcome to this virtual podcast! I am your host Mike Mathis, and I’m thrilled to be joined by some incredible voices from across history to talk about Ongoing Sovereignty Theology through the amazing technology of Grok 3. With me are Dr. J. Vernon McGee, John Calvin, and the Apostle Paul. Guys, thanks for being here or, well, for letting me imagine you here! Today, we’re exploring this idea that God’s sovereignty is a living, ongoing process, not just a fixed plan set before time. Dr. McGee, you’ve preached on God’s sovereignty a lot what’s your first take on this?

[dr] Well, Mike, I’m glad to be here with you folks! You know, I’ve always said the Bible is clear: God’s in control of everything Psalm 103:19, “The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.” This Ongoing Sovereignty idea you’re talkin’ about it’s got a ring of truth if it means God’s actively ruling right now, not just sittin’ back after windin’ up the clock. But I’d wanna know: does it leave room for God’s eternal plan? I mean, Ephesians 1:11 says He “worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.” How do you square that with this “ongoing” business?

[john] Allow me to weigh in, Michael. I am John Calvin, and I must say this concept intrigues me, yet it raises questions. In my Institutes, I argued that God’s providence governs all events nothing occurs by chance, for His decree is eternal and unchangeable. If this Ongoing Sovereignty suggests that God’s rule unfolds dynamically, as you say, with human participation, does it not risk implying that God’s will is contingent upon man? That would be a perilous departure from the divine majesty I see in Scripture, such as Romans 9:21, where the potter has power over the clay.

[paul] Greetings, brothers! I am Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God. I rejoice to hear you wrestling with the sovereignty of our Lord. Mike, this “ongoing” theology you speak of, I see echoes of it in my own words. In Philippians 2:12 13, I wrote, “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” God’s sovereignty is active, alive in us, not merely a decree from afar. Yet, I also proclaimed in Ephesians 1:4 that He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. How does your view hold these together?

[mike] Great points, all of you! Let me clarify what I mean by Ongoing Sovereignty Theology, based on some thinking I’ve been doing. It’s not that God’s will changes or depends on us, but that His sovereignty is expressed dynamically like a story unfolding. God’s ultimate purpose is set, but the details, the “how” of it, involve real time interaction with us. Think of it like a master artist painting a masterpiece: the final image is in His mind, but each brushstroke happens in the moment. Dr. McGee, does that fit with your view of God working all things out?

[dr] Hmm, I like that picture, Mike the master artist. It’s folksy, and it kinda fits! You’re sayin’ God’s got the endgame settled, but He’s workin’ it out day by day with us in the mix. I can see that in Romans 8:28, “All things work together for good to them that love God.” It’s active, not just a blueprint collectin’ dust. Still, I’d be careful not to make it sound like God’s improvisin’. He’s not surprised by anything He’s omniscient, after all!

[john] I concur with Dr. McGee on God’s omniscience. Yet, Michael, your analogy troubles me somewhat. A painter may adjust his strokes, but God’s decree is perfect from eternity. If this “ongoing” aspect means His sovereignty engages with human freedom, I might see it as His ordained means to His ordained ends provided we affirm, as I did, that even our wills are under His governance. In Book III of my Institutes, I wrote that God’s providence directs all things, even the actions of the wicked, to His glory. Could your theology be a way of describing this divine orchestration?

[paul] Yes, John, and Mike, I think you’re both touching on something vital. When I wrote in 1 Corinthians 3:9 that we are “God’s fellow workers,” I meant we’re part of His ongoing work in the world. His sovereignty isn’t a cold machine it’s personal, relational. In Romans 11:33 36, I marveled at the depth of His wisdom: “From him and through him and to him are all things.” This “ongoing” idea might just be how we experience His eternal purpose in time, as He draws all nations to Himself through the Gospel.

[mike] I love that, Paul relational sovereignty! That’s the heart of it. It’s not about God being indecisive or us running the show; it’s about His active presence with us, shaping history as we go. Dr. McGee, you’ve talked about God’s sovereignty in everyday life does this feel like a practical way to see it?

[dr] You bet, Mike! I’ve always said God’s not just up there in the clouds He’s down here with us. If Ongoing Sovereignty means He’s rulership is alive and kickin’ in our daily walk, I’m all for it. Take Daniel 4:35 “He doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth.” That’s not static; it’s God movin’ and shakin’ things right now!

[john] I remain cautious, yet I see merit in this emphasis on God’s living rule. Provided we do not diminish His eternal decree, I could interpret this as the outworking of His providence in time. Still, I insist: human participation must be subordinate to His will, as I argued in my commentary on Psalm 115:3 “Our God is in the heavens; he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

[paul] And I’d add, brothers, that this ongoing sovereignty shines brightest in Christ. Colossians 1:17 says, “He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” His reign is active now, sustaining and redeeming creation. Mike, your theology seems to celebrate that ongoing victory am I right?

[mike] Exactly, Paul! It’s about Christ’s reign unfolding, not just in the future, but today. Okay, let’s move on to the next topic, so let’s wrap up. Dr. McGee, final thought?

[dr] I’d say it’s a fresh way to see an old truth God’s runnin’ the show, and we’re in it with Him. Just keep it biblical, Mike!

[john] I’d urge precision: God’s sovereignty is eternal, but if “ongoing” means His active governance, I can assent so long as His decree stands firm.

[paul] I rejoice in this: God’s sovereignty is a mystery we live in, not just ponder. To Him be glory forever!

[mike] Thanks, everyone! This has been amazing. Now let’s discuss how this theological position works out in the context of prayer.

[dr] Glad to, Mike! Prayer’s one of my favorite subjects it’s just talkin’ to the Lord, plain and simple. Now, if this Ongoing Sovereignty means God’s actively workin’ in the world right now, not just followin’ some dusty old script, then prayer gets real exciting! It’s like James 5:16 says, “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” I’ve always taught that prayer’s powerful because God’s listenin’ and movin’. This theology of yours might say He’s not just hearin’ us but actually respondin’ in the moment like He did with Elijah, callin’ down fire from heaven. What do you think, Mike?

[mike] I love that, Dr. McGee! That’s exactly what I’m getting at. If God’s sovereignty is unfolding dynamically, prayer isn’t just us reciting requests to a fixed plan it’s us joining Him in what He’s doing right now. It’s a real conversation. John, you’ve written about prayer and God’s providence how do you see this fitting in?

[john] Michael, I approach this with care, as always. In my Institutes, Book III, Chapter 20, I teach that prayer is ordained by God as a means whereby we receive what He has decreed to give us. God’s sovereignty is eternal His will is immutable, as I see in Matthew 6:10, “Thy will be done.” Yet, this “ongoing” notion you propose if it means His providence engages us in time could align with my view. Prayer does not change God’s mind, for He is unchanging; rather, it changes us and brings us into His active governance. When we pray, we participate in His sovereign will, as He has appointed. But I caution: we must not imagine our prayers dictate to Him.

[paul] Brothers, I greet you again in Christ’s name! Mike, this question stirs my heart. When I wrote in Philippians 4:6, “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God,” I saw prayer as a living connection to the sovereign Lord. This Ongoing Sovereignty you speak of it reminds me of how I urged the churches to pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:17). If God’s rule is active and relational, then prayer is our cry to Him in the midst of His work He hears, He acts, and He draws us into His purposes. Think of Acts 12, when the church prayed, and God sent an angel to free Peter from prison. That was no static plan it was God moving with His people!

[mike] Paul, that’s a perfect example! Peter’s release feels like God responding in real time, weaving the church’s prayers into His sovereign action. I think Ongoing Sovereignty Theology suggests prayer’s a two way street God invites us to ask, and He engages with us as we do. Dr. McGee, does that resonate with how you see prayer in everyday life?

[dr] You bet it does, Mike! I’ve always said prayer’s practical it’s not just theology, it’s livin’. That story of Peter’s a beaut God didn’t just sit back; He heard the church and moved. Your idea makes prayer feel like a partnership: we talk, God listens, and He works it out His way. I think of Matthew 7:7, “Ask, and it shall be given you.” It’s active! Now, I’d still say God’s got the final say He’s not our errand boy but this “ongoing” angle sure makes prayer a lively thing, not just a formality.

[john] I must interject, Dr. McGee. Partnership is a bold word, and I hesitate there. God’s sovereignty bows to no man. Yet, I grant this: Scripture shows prayer as a means of His active rule. Consider Moses in Exodus 32, pleading for Israel after the golden calf. God relented or so it seems in human terms but I’d argue His relenting was part of His eternal purpose, using Moses’ prayer to manifest His mercy. If your Ongoing Sovereignty, Michael, means God ordains our prayers as instruments of His will, I can find common ground. But the initiative remains His alone.

[paul] John, I see your point, and yet I’d add this: in Christ, we’re brought near to God’s throne. Hebrews 4:16 says, “Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace.” Prayer under this ongoing reign isn’t just a duty it’s a privilege! Mike, your theology seems to say God delights in our prayers, weaving them into His living story. In my own life, when I was shipwrecked or jailed, I prayed, and God moved sometimes with miracles, sometimes with strength to endure. It’s as if He’s sovereignly present, not distant.

[mike] That’s beautiful, Paul God sovereignly present. I think that’s the key shift here. Prayer’s not about twisting God’s arm or just checking a box; it’s about stepping into His ongoing work. If His sovereignty unfolds with us, then when we pray, we’re not outside the plan we’re part of it. John, does that ease your concern about human initiative?

[john] Somewhat, Michael. If you mean our prayers are decreed by God as the means to His ends, I assent. But I’d still guard against any hint that God’s will adjusts to ours. His sovereignty is the river; our prayers are the current within it, not the source. Psalm 135:6 “Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he” remains my anchor.

[dr] I reckon we’re all sayin’ somethin’ similar, just with different accents! Mike, this Ongoing Sovereignty makes prayer a daily adventure God’s runnin’ the show, but He’s got us on stage with Him. I’d tell folks, “Pray like it matters, ‘cause it does!” and this theology backs that up.

[paul] Yes, and I’d say pray with faith, knowing the Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26). God’s sovereignty isn’t a wall between us and Him it’s the bridge we cross in prayer.

[mike] Love that imagery, guys! So, prayer in Ongoing Sovereignty Theology becomes a dynamic, relational act us joining God’s active rule, trusting He’s weaving it all together. Now let’s dig into how this perspective might influence our understanding of God’s omniscience. If God’s sovereignty is unfolding dynamically with us, what does that mean for His all knowing nature? Doctor McGee, you have preached on God’s attributes a lot, kick us off here.

[dr] Absolutely Mike! God’s omniscience, His knowin’ everything, well, that’s a bedrock truth. Psalm one hundred forty seven five says, “Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.” Now, this Ongoing Sovereignty idea you’re tossin’ around, if it’s sayin’ God’s workin’ things out in real time with us, I’d still say He knows every move before we make it. Take Isaiah 46:10 “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done.” To me, His omniscience means He’s never caught off guard, even if He’s paintin’ that masterpiece stroke by stroke, like you said. How do you see it playin’ out, Mike?

[mike] Good question, Dr. McGee. I think Ongoing Sovereignty Theology doesn’t challenge God’s omniscience but reframes how we experience it. If God’s sovereignty is a living process, His all knowing nature isn’t just about foreseeing a static script it’s about knowing every possibility, every choice, and weaving it perfectly into His purpose. It’s like He’s omniscient not just of what will happen but of how He’ll shape it as it unfolds. John, you’ve wrestled with God’s knowledge in your writings what’s your take?

[john] Michael, I approach this with my usual precision. In my Institutes, Book I, Chapter 16, I affirm that God’s omniscience is absolute He comprehends all things past, present, and future in one eternal act of knowing. Scripture, such as Psalm 139:4 “Before a word is on my tongue, you know it completely, O Lord” leaves no doubt. Your Ongoing Sovereignty, if it implies God’s knowledge adapts or evolves with events, would undermine His perfection. I’d argue His omniscience encompasses every detail of this “unfolding” you describe, for His decree includes all means and ends. If He engages dynamically, as you say, it is because He has eternally known and willed it so. Does your theology preserve this?

[paul] Grace to you all! Mike, this is a rich question. When I wrote in Romans 11:33, “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments,” I marveled at His omniscience. Your Ongoing Sovereignty resonates with how I saw God’s knowledge at work active, not detached. In Acts 17:26 27, I said God “determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God.” He knows every step we take, yet He’s present, guiding history toward His glory. I’d say His omniscience is what makes this “ongoing” aspect possible He knows all, so He can work all things with us in time. What do you think, Mike?

[mike] I love that, Paul it’s like God’s omniscience is the foundation that lets Ongoing Sovereignty breathe. I’m not saying God’s knowledge changes or that He’s figuring things out as He goes. Instead, it’s that His all knowing nature is so vast, He can hold every potential outcome and still orchestrate it perfectly in the moment. Think of it like a chess grandmaster who knows every possible move on the board not just the one that happens, but all the ones that could and wins every time. Dr. McGee, does that keep God’s omniscience intact for you?

[dr] Oh, it sure does, Mike! That chess grandmaster picture’s a good one folks can grab hold of that. God’s not sittin’ there scratchin’ His head, wonderin’ what we’ll do next. He knows it all every checkmate, every pawn move. I think of 1 John 3:20 “God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.” Your Ongoing Sovereignty just makes it lively He’s usin’ that infinite knowledge to work with us right now, not just watchin’ a movie He’s already seen. It’s practical, and it keeps Him big!

[john] I find your analogy intriguing, Michael, yet I remain vigilant. A chess master implies strategy within a fixed game, but God’s omniscience transcends even that He authored the board, the pieces, and the rules. If Ongoing Sovereignty means He employs His eternal knowledge in time, engaging with our actions, I can accept it provided we affirm, as I did in my commentary on Hebrews 4:13, that “all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.” His dynamic rule must flow from His unchanging awareness, not react to it. Does this align with your intent?

[paul] Yes, John, and Mike, I’d build on that. In Ephesians 3:10, I wrote that God’s wisdom is made known “through the church to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.” His omniscience isn’t just a fact it’s a power at work in us. This “ongoing” view might mean He knows not only what we’ll do but how He’ll turn even our stumbles like my thorn in the flesh (2 Corinthians 12:7) into His triumph. It’s as if His knowledge is alive, sustaining every moment. Does that fit your vision, Mike?

[mike] Spot on, Paul! That’s exactly it God’s omniscience is alive, not static. It’s not that He’s learning or reacting; it’s that His infinite knowledge embraces every moment, every choice, and shapes it all toward His goal. John, I think this keeps His eternal awareness intact it’s just that we see it playing out dynamically from our side of eternity. Dr. McGee, does this make God’s omniscience feel more relatable in everyday faith?

[dr] You bet, Mike! It’s like God’s omniscience ain’t just a high falutin’ idea for theologians it’s Him knowin’ me, right down to my coffee this mornin’. If Ongoing Sovereignty says He’s usin’ that knowledge to guide me today, not just a million years ago, it makes me wanna trust Him more. Proverbs 15:3 “The eyes of the Lord are in every place” feels like He’s watchin’ and workin’, all at once!

[john] I’ll concede this much, Michael: your emphasis on God’s living knowledge, if grounded in His eternal decree, enhances our awe of Him. His omniscience is not diminished but magnified when we see it actively upholding all things, as Colossians 1:17 declares of Christ. Still, I anchor it in His immutability He knows because He wills, not because He waits.

[paul] And I’d end with praise, brothers! God’s omniscience in this ongoing reign means He knows us intimately, perfectly and still loves us. Romans 8:29 “Those whom he foreknew he also predestined” ties His knowledge to His purpose. Mike, your theology seems to make that personal, not abstract.

[mike] We’ve often assumed the stream of existence kicked off with Creation like time’s this cosmic clock that started ticking at Genesis 1. But Scripture hints God was acting before Creation, so maybe time’s just a measure, not the whole show. No Back to the Future reruns here God and all of us exist in a singular present. Dr. McGee, you’re a straight shooter with the Bible how do you see this shaking out?

[dr] Glad to jump in, Mike! You’re right folks tend to think time’s this big river that started flowin’ when God said, “Let there be light.” But Scripture’s got more to say. Ephesians 1:4 “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world” that’s God actin’ before Genesis 1! Time’s just His yardstick, like you said, measurin’ days and seasons for us (Genesis 1:14). I reckon this singular present idea fits Psalm 46:1 “God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.” He’s not rewindin’ tapes or fast forwardin’ He’s here, now, always. What’s got you thinkin’ this way, Mike?

[mike] Thanks, Dr. McGee! It’s this realization that we’ve let ideas like a linear “stream of time” sneak in maybe from Greek philosophy or even sci fi vibes like Back to the Future. But if God was choosing and planning before Creation, time can’t be the whole framework of existence. The Ongoing Sovereignty point of view says time’s a created tool, not the essence of reality. God’s “I AM” (Exodus 3:14) means He’s in a singular present, and we’re with Him in it no cosmic flux, just His active now. John, you’ve wrestled with eternity does this jive with your take?

[john] Indeed, I’ve long contended that God’s eternity precedes and transcends Creation. In my Institutes, Book I, Chapter 5, I write that God’s being is “from everlasting to everlasting” (Psalm 90:2), not confined to the succession of moments we experience. Your point that God acted prior to Creation, as Ephesians 1:4 affirms is sound. Time, then, as a measure within Creation (Genesis 1:1 5), is not the substance of His existence but a framework for ours. This “singular present” you propose if it means God’s eternal now encompasses all our moments without being bound by them accords with my view. Yet, I’d ask: does this diminish His foreordination of all events, which I see as eternal and immutable?

[paul] Mike, this stirs my heart. When I wrote in Titus 1:2 of “the hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began,” I saw God active before Creation’s curtain rose. Time as a measure not a cosmic script fits what I preached. In 2 Timothy 1:9, His purpose and grace were “given us in Christ Jesus before the times eternal.” God’s not ridin’ a time machine; He’s the “I AM,” present with us. This singular present idea it’s like Acts 17:28, “In Him we live and move and have our being.” No past or future flux just His now. How do you see this changin’ how we live, Mike?

[mike] Love that, Paul it’s all about living in His now! This shift hits me hard: if time’s not a sprawling timeline starting at Creation, but a measure God uses, then reality’s not a movie reel God’s watching. It’s a singular present where He’s sovereignly active. No Back to the Future flux God’s not bouncing between past and future; He’s here, and we’re here with Him. It’s why Ongoing Sovereignty feels so alive He’s not locked in a pre Creation script but engaging us moment by moment. Dr. McGee, does this make God’s presence pop for you in daily faith?

[dr] You bet it does, Mike! If time’s just God’s ruler and He’s always in the now, that’s a game changer. Matthew 28:20 “Lo, I am with you always” ain’t just poetry; it’s real as rain! No cosmic episodes or time travel hijinks God’s right here, runnin’ things. It makes me think of Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.” He’s not flippin’ through history books; He’s present, workin’ it out with us. Them Greeks might’ve boxed time up fancy, but this keeps it simple and close!

[john] I’ll weigh in, Dr. McGee. This singular present, Michael if it preserves God’s eternal decree, I find it compelling. In my commentary on John 8:58 “Before Abraham was, I am” I note Christ’s claim to timeless presence. Time as a measure for Creation, not the essence of God’s being, aligns with Genesis 1 and Revelation 1:8 “who is and who was and who is to come.” Yet, I insist: His acting before Creation (Ephesians 1:4) means all history is within His eternal will. Does your theology ensure this, or does it risk making His sovereignty seem reactive?

[paul] John, I hear you, and Mike, I’d add this: God’s singular present doesn’t shrink His power it magnifies it. In Romans 8:38 39, I wrote that nothing not time, not height, not depth separates us from His love. This “now” isn’t a limit; it’s where He meets us. Think of Pentecost (Acts 2) the Spirit didn’t wait for a future cue; He came when God willed, in that moment. Ongoing Sovereignty with a singular present means God’s not playin’ catch up He’s the Lord of the now, weaving all things to His glory.

[mike] That’s it, Paul Lord of the now! John, to your point, this doesn’t make God reactive; His eternal will holds every possibility, like that chess master we talked about. Ephesians 1:11 “all things after the counsel of His will” still stands. But time’s not a sprawling stream; it’s His measure for this singular present we share. Dr. McGee, does this cut through the clutter for folks in the pews?

[dr] Sure does, Mike! Folks don’t need a PhD to get this God’s here, now, always has been, always will be. No fancy time travel nonsense just a present tense God. Psalm 118:24 “This is the day the Lord hath made” feels like He’s handin’ us each moment fresh. It’s practical, livable faith!

[john] I’ll concede, Michael: if time is God’s measure and His sovereignty reigns in this singular present, it exalts His nearness without compromising His eternity. Provided His decree remains the source, I see merit.

[paul] And I’d end with joy Revelation 4:8, the creatures cry, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!” His now is our home. Praise Him!

[mike] Amazing, guys! Time as a measure, not a cosmic episode God’s singular present ties Ongoing Sovereignty together. Next, let’s hit free will in this framework.

Here’s the angle: Ongoing Sovereignty says God’s decrees are perfectly accomplished He’s got authority over all but He’s chosen to give His creatures a ton of autonomy. He only steps in when our actions might derail His plans, like with Jonah or Noah. And just to be clear, when I say free will, I’m not denying total depravity I still see salvation as the work of the Triune God. Dr. McGee, you’ve preached on God’s control and our choices how does this strike you?

[dr] Mike! I like how you’re tyin’ this together. Scripture’s plain as day God’s in charge. Daniel 4:35 “He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth” nobody’s stoppin’ Him! But you’re right, He lets us run a long leash. Take Jonah God said, “Go to Nineveh,” Jonah said, “Nope,” and headed for Tarshish. God didn’t zap him; He sent a storm and a fish to nudge him back. That’s your Ongoing Sovereignty God’s decrees win, but He’s workin’ with our choices, not yankin’ puppet strings. I’d say it’s practical folks got freedom, but God’s got the final say. What’s cookin’ in your head, Mike?

[mike] Thanks, Dr. McGee! That’s the vibe I’m getting at. God’s authority is absolute, but He’s woven autonomy into the fabric of creation. His decrees are like guardrails, not a straitjacket. He steps in like with Noah, building the ark, or Jonah preaching when our moves could mess with His big picture. But day-to-day, we’ve got real choices. John, you’re the predestination guy does this clash with your view, or can it fit?

[john] Michael, I consider this with solemn care. In my Institutes, Book III, Chapter 21, I teach that God’s eternal decree governs all things Proverbs 16:33, “The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.” Your Ongoing Sovereignty intrigues me: if God grants autonomy yet ensures His will prevails, it echoes my view of providence. Consider Jonah his flight was real, yet God ordained the storm and the fish to fulfill His purpose. I’d say this “vast autonomy” is real but bounded by His sovereign will. Man’s depravity remains Romans 3:11, “There is none that seeketh after God” so salvation is wholly God’s act. Does your theology affirm that our freedom never thwarts His decree?

[paul] Mike, this stirs my spirit. In Philippians 2:12-13, I wrote, “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” That’s your autonomy and sovereignty dance! God’s decrees like saving the Gentiles always stand, but He uses our steps. Take me in Acts 16: I planned to go to Bithynia, but the Spirit blocked me God steered when it mattered. Jonah’s a beaut too ran from God, yet preached in Nineveh ‘cause God’s will rolled on. This Ongoing Sovereignty feels alive God’s not micromanagin’, but He’s not asleep either. How do you see this playin’ out in us, Mike?

[mike] Perfect, Paul that’s the heartbeat of it! In Ongoing Sovereignty, God’s decrees are rock-solid Ephesians 1:11, “all things after the counsel of His will” but He’s given us real space to act. Think of Noah: God said, “Build an ark,” and Noah could’ve said no, but he didn’t his choice aligned with God’s plan. God steps in like the flood or Jonah’s fish when our autonomy might veer off His path. John, I’m with you on depravity; we’re dead in sin (Ephesians 2:1), and only Father, Son, and Spirit save us. This isn’t Pelagianism our will’s free, but it’s not ultimate. Dr. McGee, does this balance feel biblical to you?

[dr] You bet, Mike! It’s got that good ol’ Bible ring to it. God’s runnin’ the show Psalm 115:3, “He does all that He pleases” but He ain’t squashin’ us flat. I think of Joshua 24:15 “Choose you this day whom ye will serve” real choice, right there! Yet when Pharaoh got uppity in Exodus, God hardened his heart to keep the plan on track. Your Ongoing Sovereignty says God’s watchin’, lettin’ us move, and steppin’ in when it counts like a shepherd with a flock. It’s folksy and faithful keeps us responsible but Him in charge!

[john] I’ll press this, Michael. Your examples Noah, Jonah show God’s will prevailing, which I affirm. In my commentary on Romans 9:16 “It is not of him that willeth, but of God that sheweth mercy” I argue our wills are free in scope, yet captive to sin and subject to His purpose. If this “vast autonomy” means we act genuinely, yet God intervenes to secure His decrees like Nineveh’s repentance or the flood’s timing I can reconcile it with providence. But I’d guard against implying our freedom rivals His authority. Does this theology keep His primacy clear?

[paul] John, I see your caution, and Mike, I’d build on it. In 1 Corinthians 3:9, I called us “God’s fellow workers” real partnership, but under His hand. This Ongoing Sovereignty shines in how God used my shipwrecks and detours (2 Corinthians 11:25) my choices were mine, but His purpose steered the outcome. It’s like Galatians 5:13 “You were called to freedom, brothers” we’ve got room to breathe, but when it’s crunch time, like with Jonah’s storm, God’s decree trumps. It’s relational, not robotic. Does that hit your mark, Mike?

[mike] Dead on, Paul relational, not robotic! John, this keeps God’s primacy front and center His decrees aren’t negotiable, but He’s crafted a world where our choices matter. Noah’s obedience, Jonah’s rebellion they’re real, but God’s authority weaves them into His plan. Total depravity holds; we’re lost without the Trinity’s work Romans 8:30, “whom He predestined, He also called.” Ongoing Sovereignty just says God’s sovereignly chosen to let us roam within His pasture, stepping in when the sheep stray too far. Dr. McGee, does this make faith practical?

[dr] Sure does, Mike! It’s like God’s sayin’, “Go live, choose, love but I’ve got the reins.” Folks can grab that freedom to pray, to act, knowin’ God’s got the big stuff locked down. Matthew 6:10 “Thy will be done” meets our daily grind. It’s a livin’ faith, not a script!

[john] I’ll assent, Michael, if this autonomy serves His immutable will. Proverbs 19:21 “Many are the plans in a man’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails.” That’s my anchor.

[paul] And I’d end with praise Romans 11:36, “From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.” Our freedom’s a gift; His sovereignty’s the giver. Glory be!

[mike] Awesome, guys! Free will in Ongoing Sovereignty real autonomy, ultimate authority, all under God’s dynamic rule. Next, let’s explore sin and redemption in this light.

Now we will explore sin and redemption through this lens. Here’s the twist: if God’s ruling in a singular present not just a fixed past decree He can still make decisions today. Scripture calls us to pray for everyone’s salvation (1 Timothy 2:1-4), saying God desires all to be saved, yet not all are ruling out universalism. So, God’s actively working now, electing people for salvation as His saints pray, all according to His good pleasure. Dr. McGee, you’ve preached on sin and grace how’s this strike you?

[dr] Good to be here, Mike! This is meaty stuff! Sin’s a mess Romans 3:23, “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” Redemption’s God’s answer, and I love that He’s not just sittin’ on an old throne watchin’ it play out. If Ongoing Sovereignty means He’s rulin’ and reignin’ right now, makin’ calls today, that fits 1 Timothy 2:4 “Who will have all men to be saved.” He’s not locked into some cosmic guest list from way back He’s hearin’ our prayers and savin’ folks as we speak! Look at Acts 16:31 “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” it’s happenin’ now, not just decreed way back when. What’s got you thinkin’ this, Mike?

[mike] Thanks, Dr. McGee! It’s this tension: God desires all to be saved, yet not all are so His sovereignty must be active, not static. Ongoing Sovereignty sees God’s present-tense reign as dynamic He’s not bound to a single pre-Creation decree that locks everything in. Instead, He’s electing people today, responding to prayers, like in 2 Chronicles 7:14 “If my people… pray… I will hear.” Sin’s real, redemption’s ongoing, and God’s still at work. John, you’re big on election how does this fit with your view of God’s decrees?

[john] Greetings, Michael, and all present. I approach this with care, as sin and redemption are central to God’s glory. In my Institutes, Book III, Chapter 21, I teach that God’s election is eternal “He predestined us unto adoption” (Ephesians 1:5). Sin entered through Adam (Romans 5:12), and redemption is through Christ alone. Your Ongoing Sovereignty, if it suggests God decrees salvation today rather than eternally, troubles me. Scripture says He “chose us before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4). Yet, 1 Timothy 2:4 shows His desire for all, which I’ve held as His revealed will, distinct from His secret decree. If you mean He applies election in time as we pray, I might find ground provided His eternal purpose stands. How do you avoid universalism here?

[paul] Grace to you, brothers! Mike, this stirs my spirit. Sin’s a universal chains Romans 6:23, “The wages of sin is death” but redemption’s God’s gift through Christ. I wrote in 1 Timothy 2:1-4 to pray for all because God “desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” This Ongoing Sovereignty you’re unpackin’ it’s like what I saw in the churches. God’s not done electing! In Acts 13:48, “as many as were appointed to eternal life believed” that’s active, present-tense grace. He’s reigning now, calling people as we pray, like when I prayed for the jailer in Philippi (Acts 16). Universalism’s off the table sin’s too real but God’s savin’ who He wills, when He wills. Mike, how’s this tie to prayer?

[mike] Perfect setup, Paul! Prayer’s the key God’s present-tense sovereignty means He’s acting on our pleas. Sin’s the problem: it broke everything (Genesis 3). Redemption’s the fix: Christ’s blood (1 Peter 1:18-19). But Ongoing Sovereignty says God’s not just executing an old script He’s ruling now, electing now. 1 Timothy 2:1-4 isn’t a wish; it’s a call to join His desire through prayer. He didn’t decree universal salvation, or all would be saved, but He’s actively saving as His people intercede like Nineveh’s turnaround in Jonah 3:10. Dr. McGee, does this make redemption feel alive in the pews?

[dr] You bet it does, Mike! Sin’s ugly Psalm 51:5, “In sin did my mother conceive me” but God’s grace is bigger! If He’s still decidin’ who gets saved today, based on His good pleasure and our prayers, that’s a kick in the pants to get prayin’! I think of Luke 15 the lost sheep, the lost coin, the prodigal son God’s out there savin’ folks right now. It ain’t universalism; it’s personal. John 3:16 “Whosoever believeth” means He’s pickin’ ‘em one by one, and we’re in on it. John, you’re stickin’ to that eternal decree does this mess with it too much?

[john] Dr. McGee, I stand firm: God’s decree is eternal, not piecemeal. Romans 9:15 “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy” shows His sovereign choice. Yet, Michael, your focus on prayer intrigues me. In my commentary on 1 Timothy 2, I note God’s desire for all reflects His goodness, not a universal decree. If Ongoing Sovereignty means He applies His eternal election in time using our prayers as means I can reconcile it. Consider Moses interceding (Exodus 32:14) God “relented,” yet I’d say it fulfilled His purpose. Sin’s penalty is paid; redemption unfolds now, but the elect were known eternally. Does this preserve His freedom?

[paul] John, I see your anchor, and Mike, I’d build on this: God’s freedom shines in His present reign. Sin’s chains are broken by the cross Galatians 1:4, “He gave Himself for our sins.” Redemption’s not a done deal sittin’ on a shelf; it’s alive! In 2 Corinthians 6:2 “Now is the day of salvation” I saw God savin’ folks as we preached and prayed. This Ongoing Sovereignty means He’s electin’ today, not just checkin’ a list. 1 Timothy 2:4’s no empty hope He acts when His saints cry out, like in Romans 10:13, “Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

[mike] That’s it, Paul redemption’s alive! John, your eternal decree holds: God’s not scrambling; He’s sovereign. But His freedom lets Him act today sin’s defeated, and He’s applying salvation as we pray. No universalism He elects who He wills but it’s not static. Think James 5:16 “The prayer of a righteous person has great power.” God’s reigning now, saving now. Dr. McGee, final thought on this for the everyday believer?

[dr] Love it, Mike! Sin’s a beast, but God’s bigger 1 John 1:9, “He is faithful and just to forgive.” If He’s still pickin’ folks today, hearin’ our prayers, that’s a live wire for faith! Tell folks to pray like it matters ‘cause it does. God’s not done yet He’s the King, right now!

[john] I’ll end thus, Michael: God’s sovereignty over sin and redemption is sure. If His present reign uses prayer to save the elect, I assent so long as His eternal will governs all. Romans 8:30 “Whom He predestined, He also called.”

[paul] And I rejoice Christ reigns now! Ephesians 3:11 “The eternal purpose realized in Christ Jesus” unfolds today. To Him be glory!

[mike] Wow, sin and redemption in God’s present-tense rule dynamic, not done! Finally, let’s consider the impact of this understanding on our eternal relationship with God

We’ve been unpacking Ongoing Sovereignty Theology, and today we’re wrapping up with how this shapes our eternal relationship with God. This whole journey started for me with a lightbulb moment: we’re created to glorify God and enjoy a relationship with Him forever. That got me thinking if God’s all-knowing and outside time, like Greek philosophy often frames it, our eternal bond feels one-sided, like He’s just watching a done deal. But Scripture shows real, two-way relationships dynamic, alive. For me, knowing God, the Great “I AM,” exists in this singular present and wants an ongoing relationship with us forever it’s pure joy! Dr. McGee, you’ve preached on God’s nearness how does this land for you?

[dr] Mike, you’re singin’ my tune! I’ve always said God ain’t some distant landlord He’s family. Isaiah 43:7 “Everyone that is called by my name, I have created him for my glory” that’s our purpose, sure, but John 17:3, “This is life eternal, that they might know thee,” ties it to relationship. Your Ongoing Sovereignty take God in the present, not stuck outside time makes it feel like a real friendship. Think of Moses chattin’ with God “face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend” (Exodus 33:11). Eternity with Him ain’t a museum tour it’s a livin’, breathin’ bond. What sparked this for you, Mike?

[mike] Thanks, Dr. McGee! It was wrestling with that Greek idea God as this timeless observer, knowing everything in a static “all at once.” It made eternity feel like a script I’m locked into, not a relationship I’m part of. But Ongoing Sovereignty, rooted in stuff like ongoingsovereignty.org/theology-of-time, sees God as “I AM” (Exodus 3:14), fully present, not detached. Relationships in the Bible like Abraham bargaining for Sodom (Genesis 18) or Jesus weeping with Mary and Martha (John 11) they’re two-way, dynamic. Eternity with a God who’s engaged, not aloof, fires me up! John, you’ve thought hard about eternity does this fit your view?

[john] Greetings, Michael, and all here. In my Institutes, Book III, Chapter 25, I write that our eternal state is to glorify and enjoy God, beholding His majesty Revelation 22:4, “They shall see his face.” The Greek notion of a detached, timeless deity indeed risks reducing our union to a passive gaze. Your emphasis on God’s present “I AM” intrigues me if it means His eternity embraces our every moment, it aligns with Psalm 16:11, “In thy presence is fullness of joy.” Yet, I’d insist: His omniscience and transcendence ensure He knows us fully, as 1 Corinthians 13:12 promises, “Then shall I know even as also I am known.” Does this theology preserve His unchanging nature in this ongoing bond?

[paul] Peace to you all in Christ! Mike, this sings to my soul. When I wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, “So we will always be with the Lord,” I saw eternity as intimacy, not a cold checklist. Your Ongoing Sovereignty God in the singular present echoes how I experienced Him. In Philippians 3:10, I longed “to know Him and the power of His resurrection” that’s two-way, alive! Greek philosophy might lock God outside time, but Scripture shows Him steppin’ in like with me on the Damascus road (Acts 9). Eternity as an ongoing relationship with the “I AM”? That’s the Gospel’s heartbeat. How’s this shift your hope, Mike?

[mike] Paul, it’s transformed it! If God’s not a bystander but the “I AM” who’s present Revelation 21:3, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man” eternity’s not static; it’s a growing, joyful dance with Him. That’s what hit me: we’re made to glorify Him (Isaiah 43:7) and enjoy Him (Psalm 37:4, “Delight yourself in the Lord”). Greek timelessness made it feel like He’s done with me once the plan’s set, but biblical relationships like David’s psalms or Jesus praying in Gethsemane show give-and-take. Dr. McGee, does this make heaven feel more like home?

[dr] You bet, Mike! Heaven’s no stuffy lecture hall it’s a hoedown with the Lord! John 14:2 “In my Father’s house are many mansions” sounds like a place for livin’, not just sittin’. Your idea God enjoyin’ us back, not just us starin’ at Him fits 1 John 3:2, “We shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.” That’s real fellowship, ongoing, forever! Them Greeks missed the heart of it, but this keeps it warm and close.

[john] I’ll reflect, Michael. If this “singular present” means God’s eternity meets us relationally, it enriches my view. In my commentary on Revelation 21, I note God’s presence with us is the consummation of all promises. His unchanging nature Malachi 3:6, “I am the Lord, I change not” grounds this ongoing joy, ensuring it’s no fleeting whim. Yet, I’d ask: does His foreknowledge of our eternal state enhance, not diminish, this two-way bond?

[paul] John, I’d say yes and Mike, this lifts my wings! In Ephesians 2:7, I wrote of “the coming ages” where God shows “the immeasurable riches of His grace.” That’s not a one-sided show it’s Him with us, forever unfolding. Relationships like mine with the Philippians praying, weeping, rejoicing (Philippians 1:4) mirror what’s comin’. The “I AM” wants us, not just our applause 2 Corinthians 6:16, “I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” That’s eternity’s pulse!

[mike] That’s it, Paul eternity’s pulse! John, His foreknowledge doesn’t flatten it; it deepens it He knows every step of this forever dance and still delights in it. Dr. McGee, this ongoing relationship does it preach?

[dr] Like a hallelujah chorus, Mike! Folks need to hear this God’s not done with us at the pearly gates; He’s startin’ somethin’ eternal. Zephaniah 3:17 “He will rejoice over you with singing” that’s Him enjoyin’ us too! It’s a sermon that sticks!

[john] I’ll assent, Michael: if Ongoing Sovereignty frames eternity as God’s present, relational reign, it glorifies Him. Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever” secures it.

[paul] And I’d end in worship Romans 11:36, “To Him be glory forever!” An ongoing relationship with the “I AM”? That’s our forever joy.

[mike] Wow, guys this seals it! Ongoing Sovereignty makes our eternal relationship with God a living, two-way street not a Greek one-way stare. Thanks for this journey it’s been epic! Let’s call it here, but the conversation’s just beginning in eternity. Amen?

Thanks Everyone for taking the time to listen to this virtual podcast with people from different parts of History, Please Like and subscribe and leave us your comments below of who you would like to be added to the virtual interview.

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رونوشت 🔗

1
00:00:02,068 --> 00:00:05,071
Hey everyone,
welcome to this virtual podcast.

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00:00:05,238 --> 00:00:08,808
I am your host, Mike Mathis,
and I'm thrilled to be joined

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00:00:08,808 --> 00:00:12,779
by some incredible voices
from across history to talk about ongoing

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sovereignty theology through the amazing
technology of grok three.

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With me are doctor J.

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Vernon McGee, John Calvin,
and the Apostle Paul.

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Guys, thanks for being here or well,
for letting me imagine you here today.

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We're exploring this idea that God's
sovereignty is a living, ongoing process,

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not just a fixed plan set before time.

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00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,237
Doctor McGee, you've preached on God's
sovereignty a lot.

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What's your first take on this?

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00:00:39,639 --> 00:00:42,642
Well, Mike,
and glad to be here with you folks.

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You know,
I've always said the Bible is clear.

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God's in control of everything.

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Psalm 103 19.

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The Lord has prepared his throne
in the heavens.

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And his kingdom rulers,
over all this ongoing

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sovereignty idea you're talking about,
it's got a ring of truth.

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If it means God's actively ruling
right now,

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not just sitting back
after winding up the clock.

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But I'd want to know,
does it leave room for God's eternal plan?

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I mean, Ephesians chapter one, verse 11

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says, he work at all things
after the Council, his own will.

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How do you square that with his ongoing
business?

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Allow me to weigh in, Michael.

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I'm John Calvin,
and I must say this concept intrigues me.

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Yet it raises questions

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in my institute roots, I argued
that God's providence governs all events.

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Nothing occurs by chance, for
his decree is eternal and unchangeable.

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If this ongoing sovereignty suggests
that God's rule

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unfolds dynamically,
as you say, with human participation,

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does it not risk implying
that God's will is contingent upon man?

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That would be a perilous departure from
the divine majesty I see in Scripture,

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such as Romans chapter nine, verse 21,
where the potter has power over the clay.

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Greetings, brothers.

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I am Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus.

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By the will of God,

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I rejoice to hear you wrestling
with the sovereignty of our Lord.

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Mike, this ongoing theology you speak of,
I see echoes of it in my own words

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in Philippians chapter two, verse
12 to 13,

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I wrote, work out your own salvation
with fear and trembling, for

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it is God who works in you both to will
and to work for his good pleasure.

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God's sovereignty is active, alive in us,
not merely a decree from afar.

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Yet I also proclaimed in Ephesians
chapter one, verse four,

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that he chose us in him
before the foundation of the world.

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How does your view hold these together?

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Great points, all of you.

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Let me clarify what I mean
by ongoing sovereignty theology,

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based on some thinking I've been doing.

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It's not
that God's will changes or depends on us,

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but that his sovereignty is expressed
dynamically, like a story unfolding.

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God's ultimate purpose is set.

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But the details, the how of it involve
real time interaction with us.

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Think of it like a master artist
painting a masterpiece.

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The final image is in his mind, but
each brushstroke happens in the moment.

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Doctor McGee, does that fit with your view
of God working all things out?

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I like that picture.

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Made the master artist.

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It's folks and it kind of fits.

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You're saying
God's got the endgame settled.

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But he's working it out day by day
with us in the mix.

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I can see that in Romans chapter
eight verse 28.

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All things work together for good to them
that love God.

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It's active, not just a blueprint.

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Collecting dust I'd be careful not to make
it sound like God's in provision.

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He's not surprised by anything.

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He's omniscient after all.

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I concur with Doctor McGee on God's
omniscience.

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Yet, Michael,
your analogy troubles me somewhat.

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A painter may adjust his strokes,
but God's decree is perfect from eternity.

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If this ongoing aspect means his
sovereignty engages with human freedom,

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I might see it as his ordained means
to his ordained ends, provided

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we affirm, as I did, that even
our wills are under his governance.

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In book three of my institutes,
I wrote that God's providence

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directs all things, even the actions
of the wicked, to his glory.

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Could your theology be a way of describing
this divine orchestration?

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Yes, John and Mike, I think you're both
touching on something vital.

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When I wrote in First Corinthians chapter
three, verse nine that we are God's

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fellow workers, I meant were part of his
ongoing work in the world.

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His sovereignty isn't a cold machine.

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It's personal, relational.

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In Romans chapter 11, verse 33 to 36,
I marveled at the depth of his wisdom

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from him and through him, and to him
are all things.

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This ongoing idea might just be
how we experience his eternal purpose

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in time, as he draws
all nations to himself through the gospel.

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I love that, Paul. Relational sovereignty.

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That's the heart of it.

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It's not about God being indecisive
or us running the show.

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It's about his active presence
with us shaping history as we go.

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Doctor McGee, you've talked about God's
sovereignty in everyday life.

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Does this feel like a practical way
to see it?

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You know, that night I've always said
God's not just up there in the clouds.

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He's down here with us.

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If ongoing sovereignty means

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he's rulership is alive and kicking
in our daily walk, I'm all for it.

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Take Daniel chapter four, verse 35.

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He do us according to his will,
in the army of heaven,

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and among the inhabitants of the earth.

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That's not static.

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It's God moving and shaking things
right now.

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I remain cautious, yet
I see merit in this emphasis on

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God's living rule, provided
we do not diminish his eternal decree.

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I could interpret this as the outworking
of his providence in time.

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Still, I insist human participate in
must be subordinate to his will.

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As I argued in my commentary on Psalm
115 three, Our God is in the heavens.

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He hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

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And I'd add, brothers, that this ongoing
sovereignty shines brightest in Christ.

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Colossians chapter one, verse 17 says,

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he is before all things,
and in him all things hold together.

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His reign is active
now, sustaining and redeeming creation.

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Mike, your theology seems to celebrate
that ongoing victory, am I right?

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Exactly, Paul.

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It's about Christ's reign unfolding
not just in the future, but today.

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Okay, let's move on to the next topic.

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So let's wrap up after McGee.

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Final thought I'd say it's a fresh way
to see an old truth.

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God's run on the show,
and we're in it with him.

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Just keep it biblical, Mike.

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I'd urge precision.

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God's sovereignty is eternal.

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But if ongoing means
his active governance,

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I can assent so long as his decree
stands firm.

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I rejoice in this.

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God's sovereignty is a mystery we live in,
not just ponder.

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To him be glory forever.

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Thanks everyone.

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This has been amazing.

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Now let's discuss
how this theological position

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works out in the context of prayer.

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Glad to make prayers
and my favorite subjects.

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It's just talking to the Lord,
plain and simple.

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Now, if this ongoing sovereignty means God
is actively working in the world right

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now, not just following some dusty old
script, then prayer gets real exciting.

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It's like James chapter five verse 16

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says the effectual fervent prayer
of a righteous man availeth much.

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I've always taught that prayer is powerful
because that's listening and moving.

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This theology of yours might say he's
not just hearing us, but actually

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responding in the moment like he did
with Elijah calling down fire from heaven.

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What do you think, Mike?

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I love that doctor McGee.

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That's exactly what I'm getting at.

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If God's sovereignty is unfolding
dynamically, prayer isn't just us

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reciting requests to a fixed plan.

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It's us
joining him in what he's doing right now.

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It's a real conversation.

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You've written about prayer and God's
providence.

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How do you see this fitting in, Michael?

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I approach this with care, as always

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in my institute's book three, chapter 20.

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I teach that prayer is ordained
by God as a means

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whereby we receive what he has decreed
to give us.

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God's sovereignty is eternal.

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His will is immutable.

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As I see in Matthew chapter six,
verse ten.

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Thy will be done.

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Yet this ongoing notion you propose,

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if it means his providence engages us in
time, could align with my view.

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Prayer does not change God's mind, for
he is unchanging.

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Rather, it changes us
and brings us into his active governance.

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When we pray, we participate
in his sovereign will as he has appointed.

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But I caution we must not imagine
our prayers dictate to him.

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Brothers,
I greet you again in Christ's name.

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Mike, this question stirs my heart.

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When I wrote in Philippians chapter
four, verse six,

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do not be anxious about anything,
but in everything by prayer

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and supplication, with thanksgiving,
let your requests be made known to God.

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I saw prayer as a living connection
to the sovereign Lord.

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This ongoing sovereignty you speak of.

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It reminds me of how I urge the churches
to pray without ceasing.

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First
Thessalonians chapter five, verse 17.

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If God's rule is active and relational,

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then prayers are cried to him
in the midst of his work he hears.

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He acts and he draws us into his purposes.

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Think of acts 12 when the church prayed

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and God sent an angel to free
Peter from prison.

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That was no static plan.

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It was God moving with his people.

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Paul, that's a perfect example.

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Peter's release
feels like God responding in real time,

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weaving the church's
prayers into his sovereign action.

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I think ongoing sovereignty theology
suggests prayer is a two way street.

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God invites us to ask,
and he engages with us as we do.

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Doctor McGee, does that resonate
with how you see prayer in everyday life?

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You bet it does, Mike.

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I've always said prayers. Practical.

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It's not just theology. It's living.

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That story of Peter's Abubakar
didn't just sit back.

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He heard the church and move.

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Your idea makes prayer
feel like a partnership.

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We talk, God listens and he works
it out his way.

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I think our nephew, chapter seven, verse

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seven and asked,
and it shall be given you.

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It's active now.

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I'd still say God's got the final say.

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He's not our errand boy.

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But this ongoing angle sure makes prayer
a lively thing, not just a formality.

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I must interject, doctor McGee.

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Partnership is a bold word,
and I hesitate that

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God's sovereignty bows to no man.

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Yet I grant this scripture shows prayer
as a means of his active rule.

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Consider Moses in Exodus 32,

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pleading for Israel after the golden Calf.

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God relented,
or so it seems in human terms.

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But I'd argue his relenting
was part of his eternal purpose.

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Using Moses prayer to manifest his mercy.

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If your ongoing sovereignty,
Michael, means God

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ordains our prayers
as instruments of his will.

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I can find common ground,
but the initiative remains his alone.

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John, I see your point.

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And yet I'd add this.

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In Christ we brought near to God's throne.

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Hebrews chapter four verse 16 says,

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let us then with confidence,
draw near to the throne of grace.

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Prayer.

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Under this ongoing
reign isn't just a duty, it's a privilege.

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Mike,
your theology seems to say God delights

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in our prayers,
weaving them into his living story.

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In my own life, when I was shipwrecked
or jailed, I prayed and God moved.

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Sometimes with miracles,
sometimes with strength to endure

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it as if he's sovereignly present,
not distant.

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That's beautiful, Paul,
God sovereignly present.

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I think that's the key shift here.

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Prayer is not about twisting God's arm
or just checking a box.

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It's about stepping into his ongoing work.

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If his sovereignty unfolds with us, then
when we pray, we're not outside the plan.

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We're part of it.

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John, does that ease your concern
about human initiative?

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Somewhat.

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To Michael,

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if you mean our prayers are decreed
by God as the means to his ends, I ascend.

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But I still guard against any hint
that God's will adjusts to ours.

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His sovereignty is the river.

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Our prayers are the current within it,
not the source.

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Psalm 135 six whatsoever

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the Lord pleased did,
he remains my anchor.

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I reckon we're all saying something
similar, just with different accents.

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Might this ongoing sovereignty
makes prayer a daily adventure?

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God's running the show,
but he's got us on stage with him.

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I tell folks, pray like it matters
because it does.

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And this theology backs that.

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Yes. And I'd say pray with faith,
knowing the spirit intercedes for us.

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Romans chapter eight, verse 26.

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God's sovereignty
isn't a wall between us and him.

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It's the bridge we cross in prayer.

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I love that imagery, guys.

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So prayer in ongoing sovereignty
theology becomes a dynamic, relational act

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as joining God's active rule,
trusting he's weaving it all together.

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Now let's dig into how this perspective

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might influence
our understanding of God's omniscience.

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If God's sovereignty
is unfolding dynamically with us,

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what does that mean for his ongoing
nature?

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Doctor McGee, you have preached on
God's attributes a lot.

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Kick us off here.

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Absolutely.

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Like God's omniscience,
his knowing everything.

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Well, that's a bedrock truth.

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Psalm 147 five says, Christ is our Lord
and of great power.

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His understanding is infinite.

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Now, this ongoing sovereignty idea
you're tossing around,

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if it's saying God's
working things out in real time with us

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and still say he knows every move
before we make it.

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Take Isaiah chapter 46,

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verse ten,
declaring the end from the beginning

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and from ancient times
the things that are not yet done.

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To me is omniscience
means he's never caught off guard,

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even if he's painting that masterpiece
stroke by stroke, like you said.

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How do you see it playing out?

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My good question, doctor McGee.

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I think ongoing sovereignty
theology doesn't challenge

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God's omniscience,
but reframes how we experience it.

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If God's sovereignty is a living process,
his all knowing nature isn't

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just about foreseeing a static script.

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It's about knowing every possibility,

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every choice,
and weaving it perfectly into his purpose.

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It's like he's omniscient,

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not just of what will happen,
but of how he'll shape it as it unfolds.

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John, you've wrestled with God's
knowledge in your writings.

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What's your take?

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Michael
I approach this with my usual precision

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in my institute's book II, chapter 16.

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I affirm
that God's omniscience is absolute.

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He comprehends all things past, present,
and future in one eternal act

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of knowing Scripture, such as Psalm

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139 for before a word is on my tongue.

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You know it completely.

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Oh Lord leaves
no doubt your ongoing sovereignty.

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If it implies God's knowledge
adapts or evolves

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with events,
would undermine his perfection.

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00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:08,874
I'd argue his omniscience encompasses
every detail of this unfolding

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00:15:08,874 --> 00:15:12,811
you describe, for his decree
includes all means and ends.

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00:15:13,445 --> 00:15:16,782
If he engages dynamically, as you say,
it is

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because he has eternally known
and willed it.

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So does your theology
preserve this grace to you all?

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Mike, this is a rich question.

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When I wrote in Romans chapter 11,
verse 33, oh, the depth of the riches

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and wisdom and knowledge of God,
how unsearchable are his judgments!

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I marveled at his omniscience.

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Your ongoing sovereignty resonates
with how I saw God's knowledge at work.

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Active, not detached.

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In acts chapter 17, verse 26 to 27,

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I said, God determined allotted periods
and the boundaries

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of their dwelling place,
that they should seek God.

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He knows every step we take, yet he's
present, guiding history toward his glory.

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I'd say his omniscience is
what makes this ongoing aspect possible.

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He knows all
so he can work all things with us in time.

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00:16:05,497 --> 00:16:07,066
What do you think, Mike?

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I love that, Paul.

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It's like God's omniscience

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is the foundation
that lets ongoing sovereignty breathe.

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00:16:12,771 --> 00:16:16,575
I'm not saying God's knowledge changes or
that he's figuring things out as he goes.

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00:16:17,176 --> 00:16:20,346
Instead, it's that his all knowing
nature is so vast

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00:16:20,346 --> 00:16:23,415
he can hold every potential outcome
and still orchestrate it

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00:16:23,415 --> 00:16:25,084
perfectly in the moment.

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00:16:25,084 --> 00:16:27,753
Think of it like a chess grandmaster
who knows every possible

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00:16:27,753 --> 00:16:28,854
move on the board.

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00:16:28,854 --> 00:16:32,725
Not just the one that happens,
but all the ones that could and wins

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00:16:32,725 --> 00:16:33,959
every time.

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00:16:33,959 --> 00:16:37,229
Doctor McGee, does that
keep God's omniscience intact for you?

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00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:38,664
Oh, it sure does.

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00:16:38,664 --> 00:16:41,667
And like that chess grandmaster
picture is a good one.

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00:16:41,667 --> 00:16:43,669
Folks can grab hold of that.

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00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:46,672
God's not sitting there scratching
his head, wondering what we'll do next.

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He knows it all.

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00:16:48,073 --> 00:16:51,043
Every checkmate, every pawn move.

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00:16:51,243 --> 00:16:54,246
I think of one
John chapter three, verse 20.

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00:16:54,513 --> 00:16:57,616
God is greater than our heart and knoweth
all things.

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00:16:58,183 --> 00:17:01,387
Your ongoing sovereignty just makes it
lively.

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00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:06,225
He's using that infinite knowledge to work
with us right now, not us right now.

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00:17:06,525 --> 00:17:08,060
He's already seen.

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00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:10,562
It's practical and it keeps him big.

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00:17:10,562 --> 00:17:13,365
I find your analogy intriguing, Michael.

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Yet I remain vigilant.

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00:17:15,467 --> 00:17:18,470
A chess master implies strategy
within a fixed game.

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00:17:18,704 --> 00:17:20,906
But God's omniscience transcends
even that.

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00:17:20,906 --> 00:17:23,876
He authored the board, the pieces,
and the rules.

336
00:17:23,876 --> 00:17:27,246
If I'm going, sovereignty means he employs
his eternal knowledge

337
00:17:27,246 --> 00:17:29,782
in time, engaging with our actions.

338
00:17:29,782 --> 00:17:34,086
I can accept it, provided
we affirm, as I did in my commentary

339
00:17:34,086 --> 00:17:38,190
on Hebrews chapter four, verse 13,
that all things are naked

340
00:17:38,190 --> 00:17:42,895
and opened unto the eyes of him
with whom we have to do his dynamic rule

341
00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:46,065
must flow from his unchanging awareness,
not react to it.

342
00:17:46,665 --> 00:17:48,934
Does this align with your intent?

343
00:17:48,934 --> 00:17:53,439
Yes. John and Mike, I build on that
in Ephesians chapter three, verse ten.

344
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:56,708
I wrote that God's
wisdom is made known through the church

345
00:17:56,708 --> 00:17:59,711
to the rulers and authorities
in the heavenly places.

346
00:18:00,245 --> 00:18:03,248
His omniscience isn't just a fact,
it's a power at work in us.

347
00:18:03,749 --> 00:18:06,585
This ongoing view might mean
he knows not only what we'll do,

348
00:18:06,585 --> 00:18:09,655
but how he'll turn even our stumbles
like my thorn in the flesh.

349
00:18:10,255 --> 00:18:12,658
Second Corinthians chapter 12, verse
seven.

350
00:18:12,658 --> 00:18:14,426
Into his triumph.

351
00:18:14,426 --> 00:18:17,429
It's as if his knowledge is alive,
sustaining every moment.

352
00:18:17,796 --> 00:18:19,465
Does that fit your vision, Mike?

353
00:18:19,465 --> 00:18:20,432
That's exactly it.

354
00:18:20,432 --> 00:18:23,302
God's omniscience is alive, not static.

355
00:18:23,302 --> 00:18:25,804
It's not that he's learning or reacting.

356
00:18:25,804 --> 00:18:28,640
It's that his infinite knowledge embraces
every moment,

357
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,643
every choice, and shapes
it all toward his goal.

358
00:18:31,977 --> 00:18:35,013
John, I think this keeps
his eternal awareness intact.

359
00:18:35,614 --> 00:18:38,817
It's just that we see it playing out
dynamically from our side of eternity.

360
00:18:39,418 --> 00:18:40,953
Doctor McGee,

361
00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:44,123
does this make God's omniscience
feel more relatable in everyday faith?

362
00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:46,091
You bet. Mike.

363
00:18:46,091 --> 00:18:50,762
It's like God's omniscience ain't just
a high falutin idea for theologians.

364
00:18:51,396 --> 00:18:55,234
It's in knowing me
right down to my coffee this morning.

365
00:18:55,834 --> 00:18:59,571
If ongoing sovereignty says he's
using that knowledge to guide me today,

366
00:19:00,572 --> 00:19:01,039
not just

367
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:04,409
a million years
ago, it makes me want to trust him more.

368
00:19:04,977 --> 00:19:07,880
Proverbs chapter 15, verse three.

369
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,482
The eyes of the Lord are in every place
feels like

370
00:19:10,482 --> 00:19:13,485
he's watching and working all at once.

371
00:19:13,719 --> 00:19:16,021
I'll concede this much, Michael.

372
00:19:16,021 --> 00:19:18,924
Your emphasis on God's living knowledge,
if grounded

373
00:19:18,924 --> 00:19:22,361
in his eternal decree, enhances
our awe of him.

374
00:19:22,895 --> 00:19:26,165
His omniscience is not diminished,
but magnified when we see it

375
00:19:26,165 --> 00:19:28,333
actively upholding all things.

376
00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:31,670
As Colossians chapter one, verse
17 declares of Christ

377
00:19:32,237 --> 00:19:34,706
till I anchor it in his immutability.

378
00:19:34,706 --> 00:19:37,709
He knows because he wills, not
because he waits.

379
00:19:38,043 --> 00:19:40,212
And I'd end with praise, brothers.

380
00:19:40,212 --> 00:19:43,015
God's omniscience in this ongoing
reign means he knows us

381
00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:46,018
intimately, perfectly, and still loves us.

382
00:19:46,351 --> 00:19:48,754
Romans chapter eight, verse 29.

383
00:19:48,754 --> 00:19:52,024
Those whom he fought knew
he also predestined ties his knowledge

384
00:19:52,024 --> 00:19:53,525
to his purpose.

385
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:56,528
Mike, your theology seems to make
that personal, not abstract.

386
00:19:57,062 --> 00:19:59,831
We've often assumed the stream
of existence kicked off with creation,

387
00:19:59,831 --> 00:20:00,299
like times.

388
00:20:00,299 --> 00:20:03,302
This cosmic clock
that started taking a Genesis one.

389
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:06,538
But Scripture hints
God was acting before creation.

390
00:20:06,538 --> 00:20:09,541
So maybe time's just a measure,
not the whole show.

391
00:20:09,775 --> 00:20:12,377
No back to the future reruns here.

392
00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:15,380
God and all of us
exist in a singular present.

393
00:20:15,747 --> 00:20:18,784
Doctor McGee,
you're a straight shooter with the Bible.

394
00:20:19,117 --> 00:20:21,153
How do you see this shaking out?

395
00:20:21,153 --> 00:20:23,055
Glad to jump in. Right?

396
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:23,622
You're right.

397
00:20:23,622 --> 00:20:27,059
Folks tend to think time's this big river
that started flowing

398
00:20:27,059 --> 00:20:30,062
when God said, let there be light.

399
00:20:30,495 --> 00:20:32,965
But Scripture has got more to say.

400
00:20:32,965 --> 00:20:35,467
Ephesians chapter one, verse four.

401
00:20:35,467 --> 00:20:38,303
He chose us in him
before the foundation of the world.

402
00:20:38,303 --> 00:20:42,407
That's God acting before Genesis one
and is just his yardstick.

403
00:20:42,541 --> 00:20:45,544
Like you said, measure in days and seasons
for us.

404
00:20:45,644 --> 00:20:48,380
Genesis chapter one, verse 14.

405
00:20:48,380 --> 00:20:52,651
I reckon this singular present idea
fits Psalm 46 one.

406
00:20:53,018 --> 00:20:56,888
God is our refuge and strength,
a very present help in trouble.

407
00:20:57,422 --> 00:20:59,524
He is not rewind and tapes
or fast forward.

408
00:20:59,524 --> 00:21:01,293
And he's here now. Always.

409
00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:02,427
Let's get you thinking this way.

410
00:21:02,427 --> 00:21:04,930
My thanks, doctor McGee.

411
00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:08,533
It's this realization that we've led ideas
like a linear stream of time.

412
00:21:08,533 --> 00:21:13,705
Sneak in, maybe from Greek philosophy or
even sci fi vibes like back to the future.

413
00:21:14,239 --> 00:21:15,807
But if God was choosing and planning

414
00:21:15,807 --> 00:21:18,977
before creation, time
can't be the whole framework of existence.

415
00:21:19,578 --> 00:21:22,581
The ongoing sovereignty
point of view says time's a created tool,

416
00:21:22,748 --> 00:21:24,583
not the essence of reality.

417
00:21:24,583 --> 00:21:29,288
God's I am Exodus means he's in a singular
present and we're with him in it.

418
00:21:29,288 --> 00:21:32,124
No cosmic flux, just his active. Now.

419
00:21:32,124 --> 00:21:33,759
John, you've wrestled with eternity.

420
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:35,560
Does this jive with your take?

421
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:36,328
Indeed.

422
00:21:36,328 --> 00:21:41,333
I've long contended that God's eternity
precedes and transcends creation.

423
00:21:41,867 --> 00:21:44,403
In my institute's book, chapter five,

424
00:21:44,403 --> 00:21:47,739
I write that God's being
is from everlasting to everlasting.

425
00:21:47,739 --> 00:21:48,774
Psalm 92.

426
00:21:48,774 --> 00:21:51,977
Not confined to the succession of moments
we experience

427
00:21:52,577 --> 00:21:56,281
your point that God acted prior
to creation as Ephesians

428
00:21:56,281 --> 00:22:00,419
chapter one verse
four affirms is sound time.

429
00:22:00,419 --> 00:22:03,221
Then as a measure within creation.

430
00:22:03,221 --> 00:22:06,224
Genesis chapter one, verse 1 to 5

431
00:22:06,792 --> 00:22:11,396
is not the substance of his existence,
but a framework for ours.

432
00:22:11,997 --> 00:22:16,268
This singular present he propose,
if it means God's eternal now encompasses

433
00:22:16,268 --> 00:22:20,005
all our moments without being bound
by them, accords with my view.

434
00:22:20,605 --> 00:22:23,809
Yet I'd ask, does this diminishes
for ordination

435
00:22:23,809 --> 00:22:27,145
of all events
which I see as eternal and immutable?

436
00:22:27,746 --> 00:22:29,848
Mike, this stirs my heart.

437
00:22:29,848 --> 00:22:34,486
When I wrote in Titus chapter one, verse
two of the hope of eternal life,

438
00:22:34,853 --> 00:22:38,323
which God, who never lies, promised
before the ages began,

439
00:22:38,590 --> 00:22:41,827
I saw God active before creation's
curtain rose.

440
00:22:42,427 --> 00:22:44,830
Time as a measure,
not a cosmic script, fits

441
00:22:44,830 --> 00:22:48,266
what I preached in Second Timothy
chapter one, verse nine.

442
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,237
His purpose and grace were
given us in Christ Jesus before the times.

443
00:22:53,071 --> 00:22:54,573
God's not writing a time machine.

444
00:22:54,573 --> 00:22:58,276
He's the I am present
with us, this singular present idea.

445
00:22:58,310 --> 00:23:01,947
It's like acts chapter 17, verse 28.

446
00:23:02,147 --> 00:23:05,150
In him we live and have our being.

447
00:23:05,417 --> 00:23:07,552
No past or future flux, just as now.

448
00:23:07,552 --> 00:23:09,654
How do you see this change in
how we live?

449
00:23:09,654 --> 00:23:11,556
Mike love that Paul.

450
00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:13,759
It's all about living in his now.

451
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:15,527
This shift hits me hard.

452
00:23:15,527 --> 00:23:18,530
If time's not a sprawling timeline
starting at creation,

453
00:23:18,697 --> 00:23:21,800
but a measure God uses,
then reality is not a movie.

454
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,535
Real God's watching.

455
00:23:23,535 --> 00:23:26,538
It's a singular present
where he's sovereignly active.

456
00:23:26,638 --> 00:23:28,607
No. Back to the future flux.

457
00:23:28,607 --> 00:23:31,510
God's not bouncing between past
and future.

458
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:34,112
He's here and we're here with him.

459
00:23:34,112 --> 00:23:36,415
It's why ongoing sovereignty
feels so alive.

460
00:23:36,415 --> 00:23:40,152
He's not locked in a recreation script,
but engaging us moment by moment.

461
00:23:40,752 --> 00:23:44,322
Doctor McGee, does this make God's
presence pop for you in daily faith?

462
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:47,058
You bet it does, Mike.

463
00:23:47,058 --> 00:23:52,330
If time's just God's ruler and he's
always in the now, that's a game changer.

464
00:23:52,597 --> 00:23:55,333
Matthew. Chapter 28, verse 20.

465
00:23:55,333 --> 00:23:58,036
Though I am with you
always ain't just poetry.

466
00:23:58,036 --> 00:23:59,604
It's real as rain.

467
00:23:59,604 --> 00:24:02,407
No cosmic episodes are time travel hijinx.

468
00:24:02,407 --> 00:24:04,109
God's right here running things.

469
00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:07,579
It makes me think of Hebrews chapter 13.

470
00:24:07,779 --> 00:24:08,547
Verse eight.

471
00:24:08,547 --> 00:24:11,550
He's saying yesterday, today and forever.

472
00:24:12,050 --> 00:24:13,552
He's not flipping through history books.

473
00:24:13,552 --> 00:24:15,921
He's present, working it out with us.

474
00:24:15,921 --> 00:24:18,723
And Greeks might have box time up fancy,

475
00:24:18,723 --> 00:24:21,793
but this keeps it
simple and close our way in.

476
00:24:21,793 --> 00:24:23,195
Doctor McGee.

477
00:24:23,195 --> 00:24:26,264
This singular present, Michael,
if it preserves

478
00:24:26,264 --> 00:24:30,669
God's eternal decree,
I find it compelling in my commentary

479
00:24:30,669 --> 00:24:35,307
on John chapter
eight, verse 58, Before Abraham was I am.

480
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,378
I note Christ's claim to timeless present
time is a measure for creation,

481
00:24:40,378 --> 00:24:43,815
not the essence of God's being aligns
with Genesis one

482
00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:47,018
and revelation chapter one, verse eight,

483
00:24:47,018 --> 00:24:49,788
who is and who was who is to come?

484
00:24:49,788 --> 00:24:52,891
Yet I insist his acting before creation.

485
00:24:52,891 --> 00:24:57,429
Ephesians chapter one, verse four means
all history is within his eternal will.

486
00:24:58,063 --> 00:25:00,632
Does your theology insure this,
or does it risk

487
00:25:00,632 --> 00:25:03,268
making his sovereignty seem reactive?

488
00:25:03,268 --> 00:25:05,837
John, I hear you and Mike. I'd add this

489
00:25:06,771 --> 00:25:09,207
God singular present doesn't shrink
his power.

490
00:25:09,207 --> 00:25:10,709
It magnifies it.

491
00:25:10,709 --> 00:25:13,712
In Romans chapter eight, verse 38 to 39,

492
00:25:13,979 --> 00:25:18,917
I wrote that nothing not time, not height,
not depth separates us from his love.

493
00:25:19,518 --> 00:25:20,819
This now isn't a limit.

494
00:25:20,819 --> 00:25:22,354
It's where he meets us.

495
00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:23,989
Think of Pentecost, acts two.

496
00:25:23,989 --> 00:25:26,525
The spirit didn't wait for a future cue.

497
00:25:26,525 --> 00:25:30,228
He came when God willed in that moment,
ongoing

498
00:25:30,228 --> 00:25:33,932
sovereignty with a singular present
means God's not playing catch up.

499
00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:37,903
He's the Lord of the now,
weaving all things to his glory.

500
00:25:38,570 --> 00:25:40,672
That's it. Paul, Lord of the now.

501
00:25:40,672 --> 00:25:44,209
John, to your point,
this doesn't make God reactive.

502
00:25:44,576 --> 00:25:47,479
His eternal will holds every possibility.

503
00:25:47,479 --> 00:25:51,650
Like that chess master, we talked
about Ephesians chapter one, verse 11.

504
00:25:52,817 --> 00:25:55,820
All things after
the counsel of his will still stands.

505
00:25:56,054 --> 00:25:58,056
But time's not a sprawling stream.

506
00:25:58,056 --> 00:25:59,691
It's his measure for the singular present.

507
00:25:59,691 --> 00:26:00,692
We share.

508
00:26:00,692 --> 00:26:04,529
Doctor McGee, does this cut through
the clutter for folks in the pews?

509
00:26:05,363 --> 00:26:08,199
Does my folks don't need a PhD
to get this.

510
00:26:08,199 --> 00:26:11,036
God's here
now. Always has been, always will be.

511
00:26:11,036 --> 00:26:14,806
No fancy time travel nonsense,
just the present tense God.

512
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,709
Psalm 118 24.

513
00:26:17,709 --> 00:26:19,945
This is the day the Lord has made
feels like his hand.

514
00:26:19,945 --> 00:26:24,015
And as each moment
fresh, it's practical, eye level faith.

515
00:26:24,616 --> 00:26:28,086
I'll concede, Michael,
if time is God's measure

516
00:26:28,086 --> 00:26:31,089
and his sovereignty reigns
in this singular present,

517
00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:34,526
it exalts his nearness
without compromising his eternity.

518
00:26:35,126 --> 00:26:37,529
Provided his decree remains the source.

519
00:26:37,529 --> 00:26:40,031
I see merit and it end with joy.

520
00:26:40,031 --> 00:26:43,001
Revelation chapter four, verse eight.

521
00:26:43,234 --> 00:26:46,438
The creatures cry, Holy, holy, holy,

522
00:26:46,438 --> 00:26:50,709
holy is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is, and is to come.

523
00:26:50,909 --> 00:26:52,344
His now is our home.

524
00:26:52,344 --> 00:26:55,113
Praise him amazing guys.

525
00:26:55,113 --> 00:26:57,148
Time is a measure, not a cosmic episode.

526
00:26:57,148 --> 00:27:00,285
God singular present ties
ongoing sovereignty together.

527
00:27:00,919 --> 00:27:03,488
Next,
let's hit freewill in this framework.

528
00:27:03,488 --> 00:27:07,993
Here's the angle ongoing sovereignty says
God's decrees are perfectly accomplished.

529
00:27:07,993 --> 00:27:09,494
He's got authority over all,

530
00:27:09,494 --> 00:27:12,497
but he's chosen to give his creatures
a ton of autonomy.

531
00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:17,068
He only steps in when our actions might
derail his plans, like with Jonah or Noah.

532
00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:21,973
And just to be clear, when I say freewill,
I'm not denying total depravity.

533
00:27:21,973 --> 00:27:24,976
I still see salvation
as the work of the Triune God.

534
00:27:25,010 --> 00:27:28,079
Doctor McGhee, you've preached on
God's control and our choices.

535
00:27:28,246 --> 00:27:30,348
How does this strike you? Mike?

536
00:27:30,348 --> 00:27:32,350
I like how you're tying this together.

537
00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:35,020
Scriptures plain as day. God's in charge.

538
00:27:35,020 --> 00:27:37,922
Daniel, chapter four, verse 35.

539
00:27:37,922 --> 00:27:40,692
He do us according to his will,
in the army of heaven

540
00:27:40,692 --> 00:27:42,560
and among the inhabitants of the earth.

541
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,762
Nobody's stopping him.

542
00:27:43,762 --> 00:27:45,030
But you're right.

543
00:27:45,030 --> 00:27:46,865
He lets us run along leash.

544
00:27:46,865 --> 00:27:49,467
Okay, Jonah, God said, go to Nineveh.

545
00:27:49,467 --> 00:27:52,470
Jonah said, nope and headed for Tarshish.

546
00:27:52,904 --> 00:27:54,372
God didn't stop him.

547
00:27:54,372 --> 00:27:57,242
He sent a storm and a fish to nudge him
back.

548
00:27:57,242 --> 00:27:58,843
That's your ongoing sovereignty.

549
00:27:58,843 --> 00:28:03,915
God's decrees win, but he's working with
our choices, not yanking puppet strings.

550
00:28:04,315 --> 00:28:05,817
I'd say it's practical.

551
00:28:05,817 --> 00:28:09,087
Folks got freedom,
but God's got the final say.

552
00:28:09,387 --> 00:28:10,522
What's cooking in your head?

553
00:28:10,522 --> 00:28:13,124
My thanks, doctor McGee.

554
00:28:13,124 --> 00:28:15,160
That's the vibe I'm getting at.

555
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,097
God's authority is absolute,
but he's woven autonomy into the fabric of

556
00:28:19,097 --> 00:28:20,298
creation.

557
00:28:20,298 --> 00:28:23,301
His decrees are like guardrails,
not a straitjacket.

558
00:28:23,568 --> 00:28:26,938
He steps in, like with Noah
building the ark, or Jonah preaching

559
00:28:26,938 --> 00:28:28,940
when our moves could mess
with his big picture.

560
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:31,543
But day to day, we've got real choices.

561
00:28:31,543 --> 00:28:32,877
you're the predestination guy.

562
00:28:32,877 --> 00:28:35,880
Does this clash with your view,
or can it fit?

563
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,518
Michael, I consider this with solemn care
in my institute's book

564
00:28:40,518 --> 00:28:45,857
three, chapter 21st, I teach that God's
eternal decree governs all things.

565
00:28:45,857 --> 00:28:48,693
Proverbs chapter 16, verse 33.

566
00:28:48,693 --> 00:28:52,797
The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the Lord.

567
00:28:53,398 --> 00:28:56,134
You are ongoing. Sovereignty intrigues me.

568
00:28:56,134 --> 00:28:59,404
If God grants autonomy yet ensures
his will prevails,

569
00:28:59,871 --> 00:29:02,173
it echoes my view of providence.

570
00:29:02,173 --> 00:29:04,809
Consider Jonah. His fight was real, yet

571
00:29:04,809 --> 00:29:08,279
God ordained the storm
and the fish to fulfill his purpose.

572
00:29:08,847 --> 00:29:12,617
I'd say this faster autonomy is real,
but bounded by his sovereign will.

573
00:29:13,218 --> 00:29:14,619
Man's depravity remains.

574
00:29:14,619 --> 00:29:17,021
Romans chapter three, verse 11.

575
00:29:17,021 --> 00:29:18,890
There is none that seeketh after God.

576
00:29:18,890 --> 00:29:21,392
So salvation is wholly God's act.

577
00:29:21,392 --> 00:29:25,263
Does your theology affirm
that our freedom never thwarts his decree?

578
00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:28,566
Mike. This stirs my spirit.

579
00:29:28,566 --> 00:29:31,569
In Philippians chapter two, verse
12 to 13, I wrote,

580
00:29:31,636 --> 00:29:35,106
work out your own salvation
with fear and trembling, for it is

581
00:29:35,106 --> 00:29:38,643
God who works in you both to will
and to work for his good pleasure.

582
00:29:39,277 --> 00:29:40,712
That's your autonomy and sovereignty.

583
00:29:40,712 --> 00:29:44,682
Dance God's decrees,
like saving the Gentiles, always stand,

584
00:29:44,783 --> 00:29:46,651
but he uses all steps.

585
00:29:46,651 --> 00:29:48,453
Take me in acts 16.

586
00:29:48,453 --> 00:29:51,055
I plan to go to be a senior.

587
00:29:51,055 --> 00:29:52,557
But the spirit blocked me.

588
00:29:52,557 --> 00:29:54,859
God steered when it mattered.

589
00:29:54,859 --> 00:29:57,829
Jonah's a beauty who ran from God yet
preached in Nineveh

590
00:29:57,829 --> 00:30:02,333
because God's will ruled on this ongoing
sovereignty feels alive.

591
00:30:02,367 --> 00:30:03,835
God's not micromanaging.

592
00:30:03,835 --> 00:30:05,737
But he's not asleep either.

593
00:30:05,737 --> 00:30:08,006
How do you see this
playing out in us, Mike?

594
00:30:08,006 --> 00:30:10,175
Perfect. Paul. That's the heartbeat of it.

595
00:30:10,175 --> 00:30:13,311
In ongoing sovereignty,
God's decrees are rock solid.

596
00:30:13,311 --> 00:30:16,981
Ephesians chapter one, verse 11,
all things after the council of his will.

597
00:30:17,382 --> 00:30:19,651
But he's given us real space to act.

598
00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:20,919
Think of Noah.

599
00:30:20,919 --> 00:30:22,620
God said, build an ark.

600
00:30:22,620 --> 00:30:24,989
And Noah could have said no,
but he didn't.

601
00:30:24,989 --> 00:30:27,392
His choice aligned with God's plan.

602
00:30:27,392 --> 00:30:27,992
God steps

603
00:30:27,992 --> 00:30:31,796
in like the flood or Jonah's fish,
when our autonomy might veer off his path.

604
00:30:32,463 --> 00:30:34,566
John, I'm with you on depravity.

605
00:30:34,566 --> 00:30:35,333
We're dead in sin.

606
00:30:35,333 --> 00:30:39,404
Ephesians chapter two, verse one
and only father, son and spirit, save us.

607
00:30:40,038 --> 00:30:41,339
This isn't plagiarism.

608
00:30:41,339 --> 00:30:43,775
Our wills free, but it's not ultimate.

609
00:30:43,775 --> 00:30:46,778
Doctor McGee,
does this balance feel biblical to you?

610
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:47,812
You bet.

611
00:30:47,812 --> 00:30:50,815
My, it's got that good old Bible
ring to it.

612
00:30:50,815 --> 00:30:53,518
God's running the show. Psalm 115 three.

613
00:30:53,518 --> 00:30:56,487
He does all that he pleases,
but he ain't squashing us flat.

614
00:30:56,487 --> 00:31:02,327
I think of Joshua chapter 24, verse 15,
choose you this day whom he will serve.

615
00:31:02,327 --> 00:31:04,095
Real choice right there.

616
00:31:04,095 --> 00:31:05,563
Yet when Pharaoh got uppity

617
00:31:05,563 --> 00:31:08,566
in Exodus, God hardened his heart
to keep the plan on track.

618
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:12,937
Your ongoing sovereignty says God's
watching, letting us move and stepping in.

619
00:31:12,937 --> 00:31:16,608
When I counsel like a shepherd
with a flock, it's folksy and faithful.

620
00:31:16,608 --> 00:31:17,942
Keeps us responsible.

621
00:31:17,942 --> 00:31:20,912
But him in charge. I'll press this.
Michael.

622
00:31:21,012 --> 00:31:22,480
Your examples. Noah.

623
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,450
Jonah, show
God's will prevailing, which I affirm

624
00:31:25,917 --> 00:31:29,020
in my commentary on Romans chapter
nine, verse 16.

625
00:31:29,354 --> 00:31:33,191
It is not of him that wealth,
but of God, that she with mercy I argue

626
00:31:33,191 --> 00:31:37,428
our wills are free and scope, yet
captive to sin and subject to his purpose.

627
00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:42,667
If this vast autonomy means
we act genuinely, yet God intervenes

628
00:31:42,667 --> 00:31:46,638
to secure his decrees like Ninevites,
repentance or the floods timing.

629
00:31:46,638 --> 00:31:49,807
I can reconcile it with Providence,
but I'd guard

630
00:31:49,807 --> 00:31:52,810
against implying our freedom rivals
his authority.

631
00:31:53,177 --> 00:31:56,147
Does this theology keep his primacy clear?

632
00:31:56,147 --> 00:32:01,252
John, I see your caution, and Mike,
I build on it in first Corinthians

633
00:32:01,252 --> 00:32:05,423
chapter three, verse nine, I called us
God's fellow workers, real partnership.

634
00:32:05,657 --> 00:32:07,158
But under his hand

635
00:32:07,158 --> 00:32:11,429
this ongoing sovereignty shines
in how God used my shipwrecks and detours.

636
00:32:11,429 --> 00:32:14,732
Second Corinthians chapter 11, verse 25.

637
00:32:14,732 --> 00:32:17,936
My choices were mine, but his purpose
did the outcome.

638
00:32:18,469 --> 00:32:22,807
It's like Galatians chapter five, verse
13, you were called to freedom, brothers.

639
00:32:22,807 --> 00:32:24,075
We've got room to breathe.

640
00:32:24,075 --> 00:32:28,379
But when it's crunch time, like
with Jonah's storm, God's decree trumps.

641
00:32:28,513 --> 00:32:30,315
It's relational, not robotic.

642
00:32:30,315 --> 00:32:31,215
Does that hit your mark?

643
00:32:31,215 --> 00:32:32,984
Mic dead on Paul.

644
00:32:32,984 --> 00:32:35,086
Relational, not robotic.

645
00:32:35,086 --> 00:32:35,386
John.

646
00:32:35,386 --> 00:32:37,488
This keeps God's primacy front and center.

647
00:32:37,488 --> 00:32:41,159
His decrees aren't negotiable, but he's
crafted a world where our choices matter.

648
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:43,628
Noah's obedience, Jonah's rebellion.

649
00:32:43,628 --> 00:32:44,195
They're real.

650
00:32:44,195 --> 00:32:46,898
But God's authority
weaves them into his plan.

651
00:32:46,898 --> 00:32:48,967
Total depravity holds.

652
00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:50,868
We're lost without the Trinity's work.

653
00:32:50,868 --> 00:32:53,871
Romans chapter eight,
verse 30, whom he predestined,

654
00:32:53,871 --> 00:32:57,642
he also called ongoing sovereignty,
just says God sovereignly chosen

655
00:32:57,642 --> 00:33:01,512
to let us roam within his pasture,
stepping in when the sheep stray too far.

656
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,083
Doctor Mickey
does this make faith practical?

657
00:33:05,183 --> 00:33:06,918
Sure does. Mike.

658
00:33:06,918 --> 00:33:09,487
It's like God saying, don't live,
choose love.

659
00:33:09,487 --> 00:33:11,255
But I got the reins.

660
00:33:11,255 --> 00:33:14,258
Folks can grab that
freedom to pray, to act.

661
00:33:14,392 --> 00:33:17,395
No one. God's got the stuff locked down.

662
00:33:17,628 --> 00:33:20,298
Matthew chapter six, verse ten.

663
00:33:20,298 --> 00:33:23,301
Thy will be done. Needs our daily grind.

664
00:33:23,401 --> 00:33:26,337
It's a living faith, not a script.

665
00:33:26,337 --> 00:33:30,141
I'll assent Michael, if
this autonomy serves his immutable will.

666
00:33:30,675 --> 00:33:33,244
Proverbs chapter 19, verse 21.

667
00:33:33,244 --> 00:33:38,016
Many other plans in a man's heart, but
it is the Lord's purpose that prevails.

668
00:33:38,616 --> 00:33:41,019
That's my anchor, and I'd end with praise.

669
00:33:41,019 --> 00:33:42,954
Romans chapter 11, verse 36.

670
00:33:42,954 --> 00:33:45,957
From him and through him
and to him are all things.

671
00:33:46,257 --> 00:33:47,558
Our freedom is a gift.

672
00:33:47,558 --> 00:33:49,594
His sovereignty is the giver.

673
00:33:49,594 --> 00:33:52,563
Glory be awesome guys.

674
00:33:52,830 --> 00:33:55,833
Free will and ongoing sovereignty
be autonomy,

675
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,003
ultimate authority,
all under God's dynamic rule.

676
00:33:59,404 --> 00:34:02,673
Next, let's explore
sin and redemption in this light.

677
00:34:03,207 --> 00:34:06,210
Now we will explore sin and redemption
through this lens.

678
00:34:06,744 --> 00:34:09,914
Here's the twist
if God's ruling in a singular present,

679
00:34:09,914 --> 00:34:13,284
not just a fixed past decree,
he can still make decisions today.

680
00:34:13,885 --> 00:34:16,087
Scripture
calls us to pray for everyone. Salvation.

681
00:34:16,087 --> 00:34:19,457
First Timothy chapter two, verse
1 to 4, saying God desires

682
00:34:19,457 --> 00:34:22,927
all to be saved, yet
not all are ruling out universalism.

683
00:34:23,061 --> 00:34:26,164
So God's actively
working now, electing people

684
00:34:26,164 --> 00:34:29,834
for salvation as his saints pray,
all according to his good pleasure.

685
00:34:30,368 --> 00:34:33,237
Doctor McGee,
you've preached on sin and grace.

686
00:34:33,237 --> 00:34:34,972
How's this strike you?

687
00:34:34,972 --> 00:34:38,176
Good to be here, my,
this says needy staff.

688
00:34:38,776 --> 00:34:43,648
Then mess Romans chapter three, verse 23.

689
00:34:44,248 --> 00:34:48,019
All have sinned
and come short of the glory of God.

690
00:34:48,653 --> 00:34:50,688
Redemption's God's answer.

691
00:34:50,688 --> 00:34:53,991
And I love that he's not just sitting on
an old throne watching it play out.

692
00:34:54,592 --> 00:34:57,228
If ongoing sovereignty
means he's ruling and rain

693
00:34:57,228 --> 00:35:00,364
and right now, making calls today
that fits.

694
00:35:00,364 --> 00:35:03,034
First Timothy chapter two, verse four.

695
00:35:03,034 --> 00:35:05,636
But we'll have all men to be saved, or

696
00:35:05,636 --> 00:35:08,673
he's not locked into some cosmic
guest list from way back.

697
00:35:08,673 --> 00:35:11,642
He's here in our prayers
and save saving folks as we speak.

698
00:35:11,642 --> 00:35:14,645
Look at acts chapter 16, verse 31.

699
00:35:14,846 --> 00:35:18,816
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
and thou shalt be saved.

700
00:35:18,816 --> 00:35:22,453
It's happening
now, not just decreed way back when.

701
00:35:23,054 --> 00:35:24,522
Well, that's got you thinking this.

702
00:35:24,522 --> 00:35:27,191
My thanks, doctor McGee.

703
00:35:27,191 --> 00:35:28,659
It's this tension.

704
00:35:28,659 --> 00:35:30,561
God desires all to be saved.

705
00:35:30,561 --> 00:35:31,496
Yet not all are.

706
00:35:31,496 --> 00:35:34,499
So his sovereignty must be active,
not static.

707
00:35:34,699 --> 00:35:37,301
Ongoing sovereignty sees
God's present tense.

708
00:35:37,301 --> 00:35:38,636
Reign is dynamic.

709
00:35:38,636 --> 00:35:42,373
He's not bound to a single procreation
decree that locks everything in.

710
00:35:42,940 --> 00:35:46,177
Instead, he's electing people today,
responding to prayers

711
00:35:46,744 --> 00:35:49,747
like in Second Chronicles
chapter seven, verse 14.

712
00:35:49,914 --> 00:35:52,483
If my people pray, I will hear Zinn's

713
00:35:52,483 --> 00:35:55,486
real redemption's ongoing
and God still at work.

714
00:35:56,053 --> 00:35:57,622
John, you're big on election.

715
00:35:57,622 --> 00:36:00,491
How does this fit with your view of God's
decrees?

716
00:36:00,491 --> 00:36:02,860
Greetings, Michael, and all present.

717
00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:07,165
I approach this with care, as sin
and redemption are central to God's glory.

718
00:36:07,732 --> 00:36:10,201
In my Institute's book three,

719
00:36:10,201 --> 00:36:14,005
chapter 21st,
I teach that God's selection is eternal.

720
00:36:14,338 --> 00:36:16,007
He predestined us unto adoption.

721
00:36:16,007 --> 00:36:18,409
Ephesians chapter one, verse five.

722
00:36:18,409 --> 00:36:20,011
Sin. Enter to Adam.

723
00:36:20,011 --> 00:36:24,982
Romans chapter five, verse 12,
and redemption is through Christ alone.

724
00:36:25,550 --> 00:36:29,253
Your ongoing sovereignty,
if it suggests God decrees

725
00:36:29,253 --> 00:36:32,423
salvation today
rather than eternally troubles me,

726
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:36,360
Scripture says he chose us
before the foundation of the world.

727
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,462
Ephesians chapter one, verse four.

728
00:36:38,462 --> 00:36:43,634
Tight yet first Timothy chapter two, verse
four shows his desire for all,

729
00:36:43,701 --> 00:36:48,172
which I've held as his revealed will,
distinct from his secret decree.

730
00:36:48,773 --> 00:36:52,009
If you mean
he applies election in time, as we pray,

731
00:36:52,276 --> 00:36:55,846
I might find ground
provided his eternal purpose stands.

732
00:36:56,447 --> 00:36:59,150
How do you avoid universalism here?

733
00:36:59,150 --> 00:37:00,651
Grace to you brothers.

734
00:37:00,651 --> 00:37:02,820
Mike. This stirs my spirit.

735
00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:04,589
Zinn's a universal chains.

736
00:37:04,589 --> 00:37:08,259
Romans chapter six, verse 23.

737
00:37:08,793 --> 00:37:11,329
The wages of sin is death,

738
00:37:11,329 --> 00:37:14,432
but redemption's
God's gift through Christ.

739
00:37:15,032 --> 00:37:19,570
I wrote in first Timothy chapter two,
verse 1 to 4 to pray for all, because

740
00:37:19,570 --> 00:37:23,441
God desires all people to be saved
and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

741
00:37:24,008 --> 00:37:26,777
This ongoing sovereignty you're unpacking.

742
00:37:26,777 --> 00:37:28,913
It's like what I saw in the churches.

743
00:37:28,913 --> 00:37:32,617
God's not done
electing in acts chapter 13, verse 48

744
00:37:33,150 --> 00:37:36,354
as many as were appointed to eternal life
believed.

745
00:37:36,554 --> 00:37:39,557
That's active, present tense grace.

746
00:37:40,024 --> 00:37:40,558
He's reigning

747
00:37:40,558 --> 00:37:44,829
now, calling people as we pray like
when I prayed for the jailer in Philippi.

748
00:37:44,829 --> 00:37:46,197
Acts 16.

749
00:37:46,197 --> 00:37:48,933
Universalism is off the table
since too real.

750
00:37:48,933 --> 00:37:51,936
But God's saving who he wills
when he wills.

751
00:37:52,169 --> 00:37:54,805
Mike, how? How's this tied to prayer?

752
00:37:54,805 --> 00:37:56,507
Perfect setup. Paul.

753
00:37:56,507 --> 00:37:57,875
Prayers the key.

754
00:37:57,875 --> 00:38:02,780
God's present tense sovereignty means he's
acting on our pleas since the problem.

755
00:38:03,047 --> 00:38:04,048
It broke everything.

756
00:38:04,048 --> 00:38:07,752
Genesis three redemptions to fix Christ's
blood.

757
00:38:07,752 --> 00:38:10,755
First Peter chapter one, verse 18 to 19.

758
00:38:10,821 --> 00:38:14,592
But ongoing sovereignty says,
God's not just executing an old script.

759
00:38:14,592 --> 00:38:19,530
He's ruling now, electing now
first Timothy chapter two, verse 1 to 4

760
00:38:19,563 --> 00:38:20,464
isn't a wish.

761
00:38:20,464 --> 00:38:23,334
It's a call to join his desire
through prayer.

762
00:38:23,334 --> 00:38:26,704
He didn't decree universal salvation
or all would be saved,

763
00:38:27,138 --> 00:38:29,974
but he's actively saving as his people
intercede like Ninevites.

764
00:38:29,974 --> 00:38:30,808
Turn turnaround.

765
00:38:30,808 --> 00:38:33,110
In Jonah chapter three, verse ten.

766
00:38:33,110 --> 00:38:36,747
Doctor McGee, does this make redemption
feel alive in the pews?

767
00:38:37,348 --> 00:38:39,083
You bet it does, Mike.

768
00:38:39,083 --> 00:38:40,251
It's ugly.

769
00:38:40,251 --> 00:38:42,320
Psalm 51 A fifth.

770
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,689
Ensign, did my mother conceive me?

771
00:38:44,689 --> 00:38:46,324
But God's grace is bigger.

772
00:38:46,324 --> 00:38:49,894
If he's still deciding to get saved today
based on his good pleasure

773
00:38:49,894 --> 00:38:52,330
in our prayers,
that's a kick in the pants to get.

774
00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:58,469
Brian, I think of Luke 15, the lost sheep,
the lost coin, the prodigal son.

775
00:38:58,469 --> 00:39:00,871
God's out there saving folks right now.

776
00:39:00,871 --> 00:39:02,373
It ain't universalism.

777
00:39:02,373 --> 00:39:04,375
It's personal.

778
00:39:04,375 --> 00:39:06,210
John chapter three, verse 16.

779
00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:09,547
Whosoever believeth means he's picking
them one by one and we're in on it.

780
00:39:10,047 --> 00:39:12,049
John,
you're sticking to that eternal decree.

781
00:39:12,049 --> 00:39:14,051
Does this mess with it too much?

782
00:39:14,051 --> 00:39:16,320
Doctor McGee, I stand firm.

783
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,190
God's decree is eternal, not piecemeal.

784
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:22,927
Romans chapter nine, verse 15
I will have mercy

785
00:39:22,927 --> 00:39:25,930
on whom I have mercy
shows his sovereign choice.

786
00:39:26,097 --> 00:39:28,599
Yet, Michael,
your focus on prayer intrigues

787
00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:33,070
me in my commentary on one Timothy two,
I note, God's desire

788
00:39:33,070 --> 00:39:36,507
for all reflects his goodness,
not a universal decree.

789
00:39:37,141 --> 00:39:40,444
If ongoing sovereignty means
he applies his eternal election

790
00:39:40,444 --> 00:39:43,714
in time using our prayers,
this means I can reconcile it.

791
00:39:44,281 --> 00:39:46,283
Consider Moses interceding. Exodus

792
00:39:47,618 --> 00:39:48,753
God relented.

793
00:39:48,753 --> 00:39:53,023
Yet I'd say it fulfilled his purpose,
since penalties paid,

794
00:39:53,124 --> 00:39:55,025
redemption unfolds now.

795
00:39:55,025 --> 00:39:57,361
But the elect were known eternally.

796
00:39:57,361 --> 00:39:59,563
Does this preserve his freedom?

797
00:39:59,563 --> 00:40:02,633
John, I see your anchor and Mike.

798
00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:04,268
I'd build on this.

799
00:40:04,268 --> 00:40:06,971
God's freedom shines in his present reign.

800
00:40:06,971 --> 00:40:08,739
Since chains are broken by the cross.

801
00:40:08,739 --> 00:40:10,741
Galatians chapter one, verse four.

802
00:40:10,741 --> 00:40:12,977
He gave himself for our sins.

803
00:40:12,977 --> 00:40:15,813
Redemption is not a done deal
sitting on a shelf.

804
00:40:15,813 --> 00:40:17,047
It's alive.

805
00:40:17,047 --> 00:40:21,285
In Second Corinthians chapter six,
verse two, now it's the day of salvation.

806
00:40:21,585 --> 00:40:25,055
I saw God saving folks
as we preached and prayed.

807
00:40:25,656 --> 00:40:29,593
This ongoing sovereignty means he's
elected today, not just checking a list.

808
00:40:30,161 --> 00:40:33,964
First Timothy chapter two, verse
four is no empty hope.

809
00:40:33,964 --> 00:40:37,902
He acts when his saints cry out like in
Romans chapter ten, verse 13,

810
00:40:38,068 --> 00:40:41,071
whoever calls on
the name of the Lord will be saved.

811
00:40:41,572 --> 00:40:43,974
That's it. Paul redemption's alive.

812
00:40:43,974 --> 00:40:46,210
John, your eternal decree holds.

813
00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:47,478
God's not scrambling.

814
00:40:47,478 --> 00:40:49,914
He's sovereign,
but his freedom lets him act.

815
00:40:49,914 --> 00:40:53,184
Today sin's defeated
and he's applying salvation as we pray.

816
00:40:53,751 --> 00:40:54,785
No universalism.

817
00:40:54,785 --> 00:40:57,788
He elects who he wills.
But it's not static.

818
00:40:57,922 --> 00:41:00,257
Think James chapter five, verse 16.

819
00:41:00,257 --> 00:41:02,893
The prayer of a righteous person
has great power.

820
00:41:02,893 --> 00:41:04,995
God's reigning now, saving now.

821
00:41:04,995 --> 00:41:06,497
Doctor McGee.

822
00:41:06,497 --> 00:41:08,899
Final thought on this for the everyday
believer.

823
00:41:08,899 --> 00:41:09,800
Robert.

824
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,772
sins a beast, but God's bigger one
John chapter one, verse nine.

825
00:41:14,872 --> 00:41:18,576
He is faithful
and just to forgive if he's still pagan.

826
00:41:18,576 --> 00:41:20,578
Folks today here in our prayers.

827
00:41:20,578 --> 00:41:22,680
That's a live wire for faith.

828
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,348
Tell folks to pray like it matters.

829
00:41:24,348 --> 00:41:25,816
Does it does.

830
00:41:25,816 --> 00:41:27,017
That is not done yet.

831
00:41:27,017 --> 00:41:28,752
He's the king right now.

832
00:41:28,752 --> 00:41:30,120
I'll end thus. Michael.

833
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,123
God's sovereignty over
sin and redemption is sure

834
00:41:33,524 --> 00:41:37,061
if his present reign uses prayer
to save the elect, I sense,

835
00:41:37,061 --> 00:41:42,299
so long as his eternal will governs
all Romans chapter eight, verse 30.

836
00:41:42,299 --> 00:41:46,737
Whom he predestined, he also called,
and I rejoice, Christ reigns now

837
00:41:47,338 --> 00:41:49,807
Ephesians chapter three, verse 11,

838
00:41:49,807 --> 00:41:53,644
the eternal purpose realized in Christ
Jesus unfolds today.

839
00:41:54,245 --> 00:41:58,749
To him be glory, wow, sin and redemption
in God's present tense.

840
00:41:58,749 --> 00:42:00,918
Rule, dynamic. Not done.

841
00:42:00,918 --> 00:42:03,854
Finally, let's consider
the impact of this understanding

842
00:42:03,854 --> 00:42:05,556
on our eternal relationship with God.

843
00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:09,093
We've been unpacking
ongoing sovereignty theology, and today

844
00:42:09,093 --> 00:42:12,196
we're wrapping up with how the shapes
our eternal relationship with God.

845
00:42:12,763 --> 00:42:15,599
This whole journey started for me
with a light bulb moment.

846
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,869
We're created to glorify God
and enjoy a relationship with him forever.

847
00:42:19,470 --> 00:42:20,304
That got me thinking.

848
00:42:20,304 --> 00:42:24,408
If God's all knowing in outside time,
like Greek philosophy often frames it,

849
00:42:24,675 --> 00:42:28,212
our eternal bond feels one sided,
like he's just watching a done deal.

850
00:42:28,812 --> 00:42:32,950
But scripture shows real two way
relationships, dynamic, alive,

851
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:34,818
that live for me.

852
00:42:34,818 --> 00:42:39,390
Knowing God the great
I am exists in this singular present.

853
00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:42,359
And once an ongoing relationship
with us forever.

854
00:42:42,359 --> 00:42:43,928
It's pure joy.

855
00:42:43,928 --> 00:42:46,597
Doctor McGee,
you've preached on God's nearness.

856
00:42:46,597 --> 00:42:48,432
How does this land for you?

857
00:42:48,432 --> 00:42:51,335
Might. You're singing my tune.

858
00:42:51,335 --> 00:42:53,737
I've always said
God ain't some distant land.

859
00:42:53,737 --> 00:42:55,406
Lord is family.

860
00:42:55,406 --> 00:42:59,009
Isaiah chapter 43, verse seven.

861
00:42:59,410 --> 00:43:03,948
Everyone that is called by my name,
I have created him for my glory.

862
00:43:04,381 --> 00:43:08,485
That's our purpose,
sure, but John, chapter 17, verse three,

863
00:43:08,786 --> 00:43:11,388
this is life eternal, that they might know

864
00:43:11,388 --> 00:43:15,125
the ties it to relationship,
your ongoing sovereignty.

865
00:43:15,125 --> 00:43:17,861
Take God in the present,
not stuck outside.

866
00:43:17,861 --> 00:43:20,397
Tie makes it feel like a real friendship.

867
00:43:20,397 --> 00:43:23,400
I think of Moses chatting with God
face to face

868
00:43:23,834 --> 00:43:26,370
as a man speaketh unto his friend.

869
00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:27,071
Exodus

870
00:43:28,906 --> 00:43:31,075
eternity with him in a museum tour.

871
00:43:31,075 --> 00:43:33,010
It's a live and breathe and bond.

872
00:43:33,010 --> 00:43:34,278
What sparked this for you?

873
00:43:34,278 --> 00:43:36,747
My thanks, doctor McGee.

874
00:43:36,747 --> 00:43:38,215
It was wrestling with that Greek idea.

875
00:43:38,215 --> 00:43:41,952
God has this timeless observer knowing
everything in a static all at once.

876
00:43:42,486 --> 00:43:43,320
It made eternity

877
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,757
feel like a script I'm locked into,
not a relationship I'm part of,

878
00:43:47,324 --> 00:43:50,361
but ongoing sovereignty rooted in stuff
like ongoing

879
00:43:50,361 --> 00:43:53,797
sovereignty
talk, theology of time sees God as I am.

880
00:43:53,797 --> 00:43:57,001
Exodus 314 fully present, not detached

881
00:43:57,568 --> 00:44:00,437
relationships in the Bible
like Abraham bargaining for Sodom.

882
00:44:00,437 --> 00:44:03,073
Genesis 18,
or Jesus weeping with Mary and Martha.

883
00:44:03,073 --> 00:44:06,577
John 11 there two way dynamic eternity

884
00:44:06,577 --> 00:44:09,580
with a God who's engaged,
not aloof, fires me up.

885
00:44:10,147 --> 00:44:12,383
John, you've thought hard about eternity.

886
00:44:12,383 --> 00:44:13,917
Does this fit your view?

887
00:44:13,917 --> 00:44:15,386
Greetings, Michael and all.

888
00:44:15,386 --> 00:44:20,524
Here in my Institute's book
three, chapter 25, I write that

889
00:44:20,524 --> 00:44:25,062
our eternal state is to glorify and enjoy
God beholding his majesty.

890
00:44:25,062 --> 00:44:28,065
Revelation chapter 22, verse four.

891
00:44:28,132 --> 00:44:30,200
They shall see his face.

892
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,203
The Greek notion of a detached,
timeless deity

893
00:44:33,303 --> 00:44:36,707
indeed risks
reducing our union to a passive gaze.

894
00:44:37,274 --> 00:44:38,909
Your emphasis on God's present.

895
00:44:38,909 --> 00:44:40,177
I'm intrigues me.

896
00:44:40,177 --> 00:44:43,180
If it means his eternity embraces
our every moment.

897
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:44,715
It aligns with some

898
00:44:45,883 --> 00:44:48,385
in thy presence is fullness of joy.

899
00:44:48,385 --> 00:44:52,790
Yet I'd insist his omniscience
and transcendence ensure

900
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:57,027
he knows as fully as first
Corinthians, chapter 13, verse 12.

901
00:44:57,227 --> 00:45:00,931
Promises,
then shall I know, even as also I'm known.

902
00:45:01,565 --> 00:45:05,836
Does this theology preserve his unchanging
nature in this ongoing bond?

903
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:08,972
Peace to you all in Christ, Mike.

904
00:45:08,972 --> 00:45:10,908
This sings to my soul.

905
00:45:10,908 --> 00:45:13,911
When I wrote in first Thessalonians
chapter four, verse 17,

906
00:45:13,977 --> 00:45:15,946
so we will always be with the Lord.

907
00:45:15,946 --> 00:45:19,049
I saw eternity as intimacy,
not a cold checklist.

908
00:45:19,583 --> 00:45:22,586
Your ongoing sovereignty,
God in the singular present, echoes

909
00:45:22,586 --> 00:45:26,490
how I experienced him in Philippians
chapter three, verse ten.

910
00:45:27,124 --> 00:45:29,393
I long to know him
and the power of his resurrection.

911
00:45:29,393 --> 00:45:31,428
This two way alive

912
00:45:31,428 --> 00:45:35,399
Greek philosophy might look God outside
time, but Scripture shows him stepping in.

913
00:45:35,399 --> 00:45:37,167
Like with me on the Damascus Road.

914
00:45:37,167 --> 00:45:41,338
Acts nine eternity
as an ongoing relationship with the I am.

915
00:45:41,972 --> 00:45:44,108
That's the gospel is heartbeat.

916
00:45:44,108 --> 00:45:44,708
How's this shift?

917
00:45:44,708 --> 00:45:47,711
Your hope,
Mike Powell it's transformed it.

918
00:45:48,145 --> 00:45:52,049
If God's not a bystander, but the I am
who's present revelation chapter 21,

919
00:45:52,049 --> 00:45:55,953
verse three, behold
the dwelling place of God is with man.

920
00:45:55,953 --> 00:45:57,788
Eternities not static.

921
00:45:57,788 --> 00:46:00,224
It's a growing, joyful dance with him.

922
00:46:00,224 --> 00:46:01,525
That's what hit me.

923
00:46:01,525 --> 00:46:02,726
We're made to glorify him.

924
00:46:02,726 --> 00:46:05,696
Isaiah chapter 43,
verse seven, and enjoy him.

925
00:46:05,696 --> 00:46:08,699
Psalm 37 four
delight yourself in the Lord.

926
00:46:09,199 --> 00:46:12,236
Greek timelessness made it feel like he's
done with me once the plan set.

927
00:46:12,536 --> 00:46:15,539
But biblical relationships
like David, Psalms or Jesus praying.

928
00:46:15,539 --> 00:46:18,008
And yet so many show give and take.

929
00:46:18,008 --> 00:46:18,942
Doctor McGee.

930
00:46:18,942 --> 00:46:21,545
Does this make heaven feel more like home?

931
00:46:21,545 --> 00:46:23,580
You bet. My heavens.

932
00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:24,882
No stuffy lecture hall.

933
00:46:24,882 --> 00:46:29,186
It's a hoedown with the Lord
John chapter 14, verse two.

934
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,723
In my father's house are many mansions.

935
00:46:32,723 --> 00:46:34,391
Sounds like a place for living.

936
00:46:34,391 --> 00:46:35,993
Not just sitting.

937
00:46:35,993 --> 00:46:40,097
Your idea, God in Joanna's back,
not just staring at him.

938
00:46:40,097 --> 00:46:42,533
Fits one John chapter three, verse two.

939
00:46:42,533 --> 00:46:45,736
We shall be like him, for
we shall see Him as He is.

940
00:46:46,303 --> 00:46:49,306
That's real fellowship on going forever.

941
00:46:49,473 --> 00:46:53,243
Then Greeks missed the heart of it,
but this keeps it warm and close.

942
00:46:53,877 --> 00:46:57,481
I'll reflect, Michael,
if this singular present means God's

943
00:46:57,481 --> 00:47:00,818
eternity meets us relationally,
it enriches my view.

944
00:47:01,451 --> 00:47:05,989
In my commentary on revelation 21,
I note God's presence with us

945
00:47:05,989 --> 00:47:10,160
is the consummation of all promises,
his unchanging nature.

946
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,430
Malachi chapter three, verse six
I am the Lord.

947
00:47:13,864 --> 00:47:18,268
I change not grounds this ongoing joy,
ensuring it's no fleeting whim.

948
00:47:18,802 --> 00:47:21,572
Yet I ask, does his foreknowledge

949
00:47:21,572 --> 00:47:25,542
of our eternal state enhance,
not diminish this two way bond?

950
00:47:26,176 --> 00:47:27,411
John? I'd say yes.

951
00:47:27,411 --> 00:47:31,949
And Mike, this lifts my wings in Ephesians
chapter two, verse seven,

952
00:47:32,249 --> 00:47:36,386
I wrote of the coming ages where God shows
the immeasurable riches of his grace.

953
00:47:37,020 --> 00:47:38,322
That's not a one sided show.

954
00:47:38,322 --> 00:47:41,358
It's him with us forever
unfolding relationships

955
00:47:41,358 --> 00:47:44,461
like mine with the Philippians,
praying, weeping, rejoicing.

956
00:47:44,461 --> 00:47:46,597
Philippians chapter one, verse four.

957
00:47:47,831 --> 00:47:48,365
Mirror what's

958
00:47:48,365 --> 00:47:52,302
come in the I am wants us,
not just our applause.

959
00:47:52,302 --> 00:47:55,305
Second Corinthians chapter six, verse 16

960
00:47:55,539 --> 00:47:58,542
I will be their God
and they shall be my people.

961
00:47:58,909 --> 00:48:00,844
That's eternity's pulse.

962
00:48:00,844 --> 00:48:02,980
That's it. Paul. Eternity's pulse.

963
00:48:02,980 --> 00:48:05,616
John.
His foreknowledge doesn't flatten it.

964
00:48:05,616 --> 00:48:06,316
It deepens it.

965
00:48:06,316 --> 00:48:09,319
He knows every step of this forever dance
and still delights in it.

966
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:15,259
Doctor McGee, this ongoing relationship,
does it preach like a hallelujah chorus.

967
00:48:15,259 --> 00:48:17,294
My folks need to hear this.

968
00:48:17,294 --> 00:48:20,297
God's not done with us
at the pearly gates.

969
00:48:20,764 --> 00:48:22,900
He starting something eternal.

970
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:25,202
Zephaniah chapter three, verse 17.

971
00:48:25,202 --> 00:48:29,339
He will rejoice over you
with singing that same and join us too.

972
00:48:29,940 --> 00:48:33,644
It's a sermon that sticks out
a Saint Michael.

973
00:48:33,810 --> 00:48:36,680
If ongoing sovereignty frames eternity
as God's

974
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,750
present to relational reign,
it glorifies him.

975
00:48:40,317 --> 00:48:43,587
Hebrews chapter 13, verse eight
Jesus Christ

976
00:48:43,587 --> 00:48:47,124
the same yesterday and today
and forever secures it.

977
00:48:47,724 --> 00:48:48,725
And I'd end in worship.

978
00:48:48,725 --> 00:48:51,194
Romans chapter 11, verse 36.

979
00:48:51,194 --> 00:48:53,096
To him be glory forever.

980
00:48:53,096 --> 00:48:55,565
And ongoing relationship with the I am.

981
00:48:55,565 --> 00:48:57,434
That's our forever joy.

982
00:48:57,434 --> 00:48:59,169
Wow guys. This seals it.

983
00:48:59,169 --> 00:49:02,306
Ongoing sovereignty
makes our eternal relationship with God

984
00:49:02,673 --> 00:49:05,676
a living two way street,
not a Greek one way stair.

985
00:49:06,243 --> 00:49:08,278
Thanks for this journey. It's been epic.

986
00:49:08,278 --> 00:49:11,448
Let's call it here, but the conversations
just beginning in eternity.

987
00:49:11,715 --> 00:49:14,952
Thanks everyone for taking the time
to listen to this virtual podcast

988
00:49:14,952 --> 00:49:17,321
with people
from different parts of history.

989
00:49:17,321 --> 00:49:19,756
Please like and subscribe
and leave us your comments

990
00:49:19,756 --> 00:49:22,993
below of who you would like
to be added to the virtual interview.

991
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:31,068
In.

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سلب مسئولیت: پادکست و آثار هنری تعبیه شده در این صفحه متعلق به Michael Mathis است که متعلق به صاحب آن است و به Listen Notes، Inc وابسته یا تایید نشده است.