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Announcer: This is a Getty
podcast.
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[Rising, meditative music]
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Lilit Sadoyan: Hello, I’m
Lilit Sadoyan, the host of
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00:00:08,210 --> 00:00:11,350
OMMM, Our Museum Mindfulness
Meditation podcast,
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00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:13,439
Getty’s first video podcast.
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00:00:14,570 --> 00:00:18,209
Welcome to the Deeper Dive,
where we explore the themes
8
00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:21,119
of our weekly episodes
with experts in everything
9
00:00:21,119 --> 00:00:23,989
from paintings conservation
to mountain climbing.
10
00:00:24,359 --> 00:00:27,390
Aroussiak Gabrielian: All of
these lenses were attempts at
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00:00:27,420 --> 00:00:31,769
getting us to really see not
only the intelligence and the
12
00:00:31,769 --> 00:00:36,319
agency, but really to see the
tree as another living being.
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00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:39,220
Sadoyan: This week, we did
a grounding tree meditation
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00:00:39,259 --> 00:00:43,620
inspired by Théodore Rousseau’s
Forest of Fontainebleau, Cluster
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00:00:43,649 --> 00:00:46,799
of Tall Trees Overlooking
the Plain of Clair-Bois
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00:00:46,879 --> 00:00:49,450
at the Edge of Bas-Bréau.
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I spoke with landscape
architect and artist, Aroussiak
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00:00:53,199 --> 00:00:57,219
Gabrielian, to understand more
about how we as humans can build
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00:00:57,230 --> 00:01:01,140
personal relationships to trees
and the landscapes around us.
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Now, let’s dive in.
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[on video call] Aroussiak,
thank you so much
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for joining me today.
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Gabrielian: Of course.
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Thank you for having me.
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Sadoyan: So the reason why I
thought of you in connection
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with this episode was because
you designed a happening
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at the Getty Center in
connection with Earth Month.
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So can you start off by telling
us more about that work?
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Gabrielian: So the piece that
I staged at the Getty Garden
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for Earth Day activation was a
meditation, a guided meditation
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with a tree, of a particular
tree, a Peruvian pepper tree
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that’s in the garden at the
Getty, and it was about a
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20-minute guided meditation.
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And one of the things I was
responding to is this notion
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of plant blindness, which
is a cognitive bias that we
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humans have in relation to
the biophysical world, and
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particularly plant matter,
where we do not necessarily
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see the intelligence and the
agency of species, um, of
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particular and specific species.
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00:02:05,559 --> 00:02:08,879
Everything kind of blends
into a background condition
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for us, a background noise.
42
00:02:11,539 --> 00:02:16,349
And as a piece within a larger
body of work that stages
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encounters, very intimate
encounters with biophysical
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matter, the piece for me was
about attuning ourselves to
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the intelligence of this tree.
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And intelligence here I was
looking through multiple lenses.
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Um, there was a kind of
scientific angle that the
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meditation took us through to
really understand the—what we
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were hearing in terms of the
internal sounds of the tree.
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It was speaking about a kind
of spiritual angle by looking
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at what the tree has meant to
the indigenous cultures, where
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the tree has originated from
and how it was used for them.
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It went through also
philosophical questions, and all
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00:03:05,460 --> 00:03:11,220
of these lenses were attempts
at getting us to really see not
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only the intelligence and the
agency, but really to see the
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tree as another living being,
and to connect with it on a
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really bodily, um, bodily level.
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Bodily level, but
also intellectual level.
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It was trying to fire at
all, kind of—trying to do
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multiple things at once.
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But the goal was to
really attune ourselves
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to the intelligence and
to the agency of this as
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a living, sensing being.
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Sadoyan: That’s incredible,
and actually something that
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really resonated with me about
your work is that kinship
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that we have with trees, that
they’re, you know, sensorily
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alive co-beings and not just
objects in a landscape to
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be perceived, but that, you
know, we have this reciprocal
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embodied relationship with them.
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Which is also what reminded
me of this—the painting
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for this week’s episode,
Théodore Rousseau’s Forest
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of Fontainebleau, and how
he just immersed himself
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in nature and incessantly
sketched from the landscape
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in which he found himself.
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Um, so I’m wondering then
how it is that you came to
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do this work and what informs
your—both your academic work
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and your artistic practice?
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Gabrielian: Great question.
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I think… in retrospect,
reflecting back on the
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influences that brought me
to, um, having an interest
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in the biophysical world and
landscape in particular, I think
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there’s been multiple places
and sources of inspiration
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on an intellectual level.
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But on a personal level,
I, you know, I was born in
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Armenia, in the capital, in
Yerevan, and I grew up
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with my grandparents and my
grandfather in particular, who
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spent most of his youth in the
southernmost town of Armenia
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bordering Iran, actually.
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It’s the last town
before the Araks River,
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across which is Iran.
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It’s a completely
different ecological and
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climactic context there.
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But the people there
are very land-oriented.
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Um, there’s a lot of land-based
practices that he grew up with.
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And wanting us to experience
both ways of life, we...you
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know, we spent half the year
living in the city of Yerevan
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where we went to school, where
they worked, and then half
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the year in the mountains
and forests of Dilijan, where
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we grew everything we ate.
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And it was really
remarkable on two levels.
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One was observing the elders
in my household tending to
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the land, which was very
ritualistic, very embodied,
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and it was, you know, also very
precise in terms of the science
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required for particular species
to grow and to sustain us.
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And on the other hand, being
able to, and allowed to, wander
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in nature, in the forest, in the
density of the thicket of the
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forests in Dilijan, which if you
know the geography, it’s a kind
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of a really mystical part of the
country, usually covered in fog.
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There’s a lot of swamps,
a lot of wild mushrooms.
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There’s a lot of
mushroom foraging.
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And, you know, I just spent
hours kind of in my own world,
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immersed in the forest, and I
think both of those, uh, were
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very formative experiences in
shaping not only my worldview
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and understanding of me
and the world, but also my
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interest towards nature and
natural systems and ecologies.
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So those would be the
original, probably, seeds
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that brought me to where I am.
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Sadoyan: Sounds awe-inspiring
and I can imagine how
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influential that was for you.
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Um, funnily enough, Rousseau
also, before moving permanently
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and settling permanently in
Barvazan, summered near the
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forest of Fontainebleau and
then retreated to the city,
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to Paris, during the winter.
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So he, too, was
splitting his time.
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Gabrielian: Interesting.
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Sadoyan: Finally, I’m
wondering if you could leave
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us with an exercise, perhaps
something you do yourself,
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as a means to connect
with trees or with nature.
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Gabrielian: Probably not
something specifically
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tree-oriented, but one of
the things I have my students
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do as they are tasked
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with representing the dynamism
of the natural world, the
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fact that it’s changeable,
the fact that, that there’s
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seasonalities, um, is
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to really—and they have
to, you know, document and
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represent that in multiple ways.
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But one of the things I ask them
to do is really to slow down
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and change the temporality that
we’re used to functioning and
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moving through the world with.
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And I don’t know if
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you remember this, but during
the COVID lockdown where
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life slowed down, because we
were forced to, there were so
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many people who were finally
noticing things that were
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always in their surroundings
but that they had never slowed
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down to actually notice.
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And there’s, I think, a real
power to shifting the lens
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through which we look at the
world and operate in the world.
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So changing the temporality that
we typically move through the
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world with, slowing down, and
really observing and witnessing
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that which is in front of
us, does so much in terms of
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perceptual, kind of, sharpening
and attunement, to really
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notice how light is hitting a
particular leaf, the angle of
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a particular branch, the insect
that might land there for a
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split second and then fly off.
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These things are, I think, so
valuable in understanding not
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only, uh, the kind of ecosystems
that surround us, but how
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everything is interconnected
and how everything kind of works
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together and in support of each
other in the biophysical world.
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Sadoyan: Yeah, and really
allowing ourselves to
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be moved by it, right?
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Gabrielian: Yes, exactly.
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Sadoyan: Yeah.
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Well, thank you so much
for sharing your insights.
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I hope that our visitors
will come and slow down
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with Rousseau’s painting.
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But thank you so much
again, Aroussiak, for
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joining us for this episode.
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Gabrielian: Of course.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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[Theme music plays]
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Sadoyan: To find the related
meditation and see images,
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00:10:05,419 --> 00:10:08,869
transcripts, and additional
resources, visit our website
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00:10:08,909 --> 00:10:11,310
at Getty dot edu slash OMMM.
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That’s O-M-M-M.
00:00:00,830 --> 00:00:02,190
Announcer: This is a Getty
podcast.
2
0:00:02,191 --> 0:00:02,191
3
0:00:02,191 --> 00:00:06,240
[Rising, meditative music]
4
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:07,670
Lilit Sadoyan: Hello, I’m
Lilit Sadoyan, the host of
5
00:00:08,210 --> 00:00:11,350
OMMM, Our Museum Mindfulness
Meditation podcast,
6
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:13,439
Getty’s first video podcast.
7
00:00:14,570 --> 00:00:18,209
Welcome to the Deeper Dive,
where we explore the themes
8
00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:21,119
of our weekly episodes
with experts in everything
9
00:00:21,119 --> 00:00:23,989
from paintings conservation
to mountain climbing.
10
00:00:24,359 --> 00:00:27,390
Aroussiak Gabrielian: All of
these lenses were attempts at
11
00:00:27,420 --> 00:00:31,769
getting us to really see not
only the intelligence and the
12
00:00:31,769 --> 00:00:36,319
agency, but really to see the
tree as another living being.
13
00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:39,220
Sadoyan: This week, we did
a grounding tree meditation
14
00:00:39,259 --> 00:00:43,620
inspired by Théodore Rousseau’s
Forest of Fontainebleau, Cluster
15
00:00:43,649 --> 00:00:46,799
of Tall Trees Overlooking
the Plain of Clair-Bois
16
00:00:46,879 --> 00:00:49,450
at the Edge of Bas-Bréau.
17
00:00:49,450 --> 00:00:52,570
I spoke with landscape
architect and artist, Aroussiak
18
00:00:53,199 --> 00:00:57,219
Gabrielian, to understand more
about how we as humans can build
19
00:00:57,230 --> 00:01:01,140
personal relationships to trees
and the landscapes around us.
20
00:01:01,879 --> 00:01:03,059
Now, let’s dive in.
21
00:01:03,859 --> 00:01:05,019
[on video call] Aroussiak,
thank you so much
22
00:01:05,019 --> 00:01:06,069
for joining me today.
23
00:01:06,439 --> 00:01:06,819
Gabrielian: Of course.
24
00:01:06,820 --> 00:01:07,709
Thank you for having me.
25
00:01:09,559 --> 00:01:12,130
Sadoyan: So the reason why I
thought of you in connection
26
00:01:12,130 --> 00:01:15,900
with this episode was because
you designed a happening
27
00:01:15,930 --> 00:01:19,390
at the Getty Center in
connection with Earth Month.
28
00:01:19,739 --> 00:01:23,829
So can you start off by telling
us more about that work?
29
00:01:24,159 --> 00:01:27,829
Gabrielian: So the piece that
I staged at the Getty Garden
30
00:01:27,979 --> 00:01:33,259
for Earth Day activation was a
meditation, a guided meditation
31
00:01:33,269 --> 00:01:36,289
with a tree, of a particular
tree, a Peruvian pepper tree
32
00:01:37,029 --> 00:01:39,689
that’s in the garden at the
Getty, and it was about a
33
00:01:39,689 --> 00:01:41,509
20-minute guided meditation.
34
00:01:41,589 --> 00:01:46,009
And one of the things I was
responding to is this notion
35
00:01:46,019 --> 00:01:49,590
of plant blindness, which
is a cognitive bias that we
36
00:01:49,590 --> 00:01:52,709
humans have in relation to
the biophysical world, and
37
00:01:52,709 --> 00:01:56,570
particularly plant matter,
where we do not necessarily
38
00:01:56,709 --> 00:02:03,099
see the intelligence and the
agency of species, um, of
39
00:02:03,119 --> 00:02:05,309
particular and specific species.
40
00:02:05,559 --> 00:02:08,879
Everything kind of blends
into a background condition
41
00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:10,569
for us, a background noise.
42
00:02:11,539 --> 00:02:16,349
And as a piece within a larger
body of work that stages
43
00:02:16,349 --> 00:02:19,779
encounters, very intimate
encounters with biophysical
44
00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:25,139
matter, the piece for me was
about attuning ourselves to
45
00:02:25,139 --> 00:02:26,909
the intelligence of this tree.
46
00:02:27,399 --> 00:02:31,270
And intelligence here I was
looking through multiple lenses.
47
00:02:31,339 --> 00:02:34,870
Um, there was a kind of
scientific angle that the
48
00:02:34,879 --> 00:02:38,749
meditation took us through to
really understand the—what we
49
00:02:38,750 --> 00:02:41,940
were hearing in terms of the
internal sounds of the tree.
50
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:50,359
It was speaking about a kind
of spiritual angle by looking
51
00:02:50,410 --> 00:02:54,929
at what the tree has meant to
the indigenous cultures, where
52
00:02:54,929 --> 00:02:59,130
the tree has originated from
and how it was used for them.
53
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:05,460
It went through also
philosophical questions, and all
54
00:03:05,460 --> 00:03:11,220
of these lenses were attempts
at getting us to really see not
55
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,600
only the intelligence and the
agency, but really to see the
56
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,109
tree as another living being,
and to connect with it on a
57
00:03:19,109 --> 00:03:23,510
really bodily, um, bodily level.
58
00:03:23,609 --> 00:03:26,149
Bodily level, but
also intellectual level.
59
00:03:26,149 --> 00:03:30,169
It was trying to fire at
all, kind of—trying to do
60
00:03:30,169 --> 00:03:32,220
multiple things at once.
61
00:03:32,570 --> 00:03:36,309
But the goal was to
really attune ourselves
62
00:03:37,009 --> 00:03:40,630
to the intelligence and
to the agency of this as
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a living, sensing being.
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Sadoyan: That’s incredible,
and actually something that
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really resonated with me about
your work is that kinship
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that we have with trees, that
they’re, you know, sensorily
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alive co-beings and not just
objects in a landscape to
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be perceived, but that, you
know, we have this reciprocal
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embodied relationship with them.
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Which is also what reminded
me of this—the painting
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for this week’s episode,
Théodore Rousseau’s Forest
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of Fontainebleau, and how
he just immersed himself
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in nature and incessantly
sketched from the landscape
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in which he found himself.
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Um, so I’m wondering then
how it is that you came to
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do this work and what informs
your—both your academic work
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and your artistic practice?
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Gabrielian: Great question.
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I think… in retrospect,
reflecting back on the
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influences that brought me
to, um, having an interest
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in the biophysical world and
landscape in particular, I think
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there’s been multiple places
and sources of inspiration
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on an intellectual level.
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But on a personal level,
I, you know, I was born in
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Armenia, in the capital, in
Yerevan, and I grew up
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with my grandparents and my
grandfather in particular, who
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spent most of his youth in the
southernmost town of Armenia
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bordering Iran, actually.
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It’s the last town
before the Araks River,
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across which is Iran.
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It’s a completely
different ecological and
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climactic context there.
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But the people there
are very land-oriented.
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Um, there’s a lot of land-based
practices that he grew up with.
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And wanting us to experience
both ways of life, we...you
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know, we spent half the year
living in the city of Yerevan
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where we went to school, where
they worked, and then half
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the year in the mountains
and forests of Dilijan, where
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we grew everything we ate.
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And it was really
remarkable on two levels.
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One was observing the elders
in my household tending to
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the land, which was very
ritualistic, very embodied,
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and it was, you know, also very
precise in terms of the science
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required for particular species
to grow and to sustain us.
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And on the other hand, being
able to, and allowed to, wander
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in nature, in the forest, in the
density of the thicket of the
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forests in Dilijan, which if you
know the geography, it’s a kind
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of a really mystical part of the
country, usually covered in fog.
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There’s a lot of swamps,
a lot of wild mushrooms.
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There’s a lot of
mushroom foraging.
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And, you know, I just spent
hours kind of in my own world,
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immersed in the forest, and I
think both of those, uh, were
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very formative experiences in
shaping not only my worldview
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and understanding of me
and the world, but also my
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interest towards nature and
natural systems and ecologies.
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So those would be the
original, probably, seeds
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that brought me to where I am.
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Sadoyan: Sounds awe-inspiring
and I can imagine how
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influential that was for you.
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Um, funnily enough, Rousseau
also, before moving permanently
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and settling permanently in
Barvazan, summered near the
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forest of Fontainebleau and
then retreated to the city,
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to Paris, during the winter.
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So he, too, was
splitting his time.
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Gabrielian: Interesting.
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Sadoyan: Finally, I’m
wondering if you could leave
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us with an exercise, perhaps
something you do yourself,
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as a means to connect
with trees or with nature.
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Gabrielian: Probably not
something specifically
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tree-oriented, but one of
the things I have my students
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do as they are tasked
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with representing the dynamism
of the natural world, the
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fact that it’s changeable,
the fact that, that there’s
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seasonalities, um, is
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to really—and they have
to, you know, document and
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represent that in multiple ways.
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But one of the things I ask them
to do is really to slow down
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and change the temporality that
we’re used to functioning and
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moving through the world with.
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And I don’t know if
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you remember this, but during
the COVID lockdown where
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life slowed down, because we
were forced to, there were so
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many people who were finally
noticing things that were
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always in their surroundings
but that they had never slowed
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down to actually notice.
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And there’s, I think, a real
power to shifting the lens
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through which we look at the
world and operate in the world.
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So changing the temporality that
we typically move through the
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world with, slowing down, and
really observing and witnessing
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that which is in front of
us, does so much in terms of
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00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:09,650
perceptual, kind of, sharpening
and attunement, to really
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notice how light is hitting a
particular leaf, the angle of
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a particular branch, the insect
that might land there for a
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split second and then fly off.
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These things are, I think, so
valuable in understanding not
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only, uh, the kind of ecosystems
that surround us, but how
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everything is interconnected
and how everything kind of works
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together and in support of each
other in the biophysical world.
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Sadoyan: Yeah, and really
allowing ourselves to
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be moved by it, right?
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Gabrielian: Yes, exactly.
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Sadoyan: Yeah.
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Well, thank you so much
for sharing your insights.
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I hope that our visitors
will come and slow down
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with Rousseau’s painting.
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But thank you so much
again, Aroussiak, for
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joining us for this episode.
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Gabrielian: Of course.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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[Theme music plays]
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Sadoyan: To find the related
meditation and see images,
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00:10:05,419 --> 00:10:08,869
transcripts, and additional
resources, visit our website
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00:10:08,909 --> 00:10:11,310
at Getty dot edu slash OMMM.
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That’s O-M-M-M.
