speaker-0: So I had a great conversation, me and Dolores did with Greg at Sun's Backyard Barbecue. He does some competition cooks and is going to talk a little bit about some of the ⁓ things that goes into competition barbecue among just some other backyard things as well. Excellent guy, excellent conversation. So stick around, hang tight. If you want to check him out, I'll have all of his info in the show notes below. So welcome to episode number. Sixty seven.
speaker-1: The the the terrace major. ⁓ I wish I could speak French right now because I would be just doing ⁓ you know. ⁓ the the the terrace major is by far the poor man's filet mignon. It's fun. Yeah, just put a little like like even if even if you just put a little rub on if you just put a little sprinkle really high up of white pepper on whatever you're cooking, with whatever rub you use, add a little white pepper to it. ⁓ yeah. I use it in Texas a lot. Time to fire up that grill. From smoked pork to smash burgers, outdoor cooking just tastes better. This is the Okie Smokin' Podcast. And here's your host, John Barry.
speaker-0: Welcome back into the Okie Smoking Podcast. Today we have a very special guest on today, Greg from Sons, a Backyard Barbecue, ⁓ who is ⁓ won many different competitions in the ⁓ state competition. He's gonna go into some details on that today, ⁓ right here in Oklahoma. He also ⁓ is ⁓ likes to go ahead and help those in the backyard be able to create. Isn't that kind of how you got into this? You kind of want to ⁓ help the average backyard cook understand how to make competition barbecue and ⁓ improve their own cooking skills, you know, for their friends, for their family and ⁓ that type of thing. And and go ahead and kick us off there, Greg. How exactly did you get ⁓ get get get started in this? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah well
speaker-1: First, Nashville, I wanna I want to thank you and Dolores for having me on the Okie Smoking Podcast. ⁓ it's just huge to, you know, be able to come and talk about what we do in parking lots and fields in the middle of nowhere. But ⁓ yeah, no, so I honestly I started out doing ⁓ son's backyard barbecue, ⁓ just cooking for myself, and then I got into competition steak cook-offs with the SCA Steak Cookoff Association, and ⁓ I discovered that. Competition barbecue for me isn't about, you know, teaching backyard cooks different way, you know, you know, how to do things differently. It's just how to improve the things they are currently doing in the backyard. I I would say that doing one makes you better at the other. ⁓ I cook better steaks, I cook better ribs, I cook better brisket, ⁓ I cook better chicken. ⁓ all of it because of just techniques I've learned that I want to just help and and just show others. In the backyard to just up their game. You know, because you truly have not been judged on your food and your barbecue, your grilling, your smoking, until you've been judged by complete strangers that don't have to look you in the eye and see you the next day, your friends and your family. And people don't realize that. It's been
speaker-0: And when they don't know who you are, 'cause it's a blind judging competition. Yeah. So there there's no eye they don't have any clue who you are, and it's a lot easier to judge when that's the case. Yep. Do you find that when you do ask those of your friends and family, you get kind of different answers?
speaker-1: Yeah, sure is. Sure, they still. But I mean, I mean, hey, when's the last time one of your friends went, hey, yeah, John? So, ⁓ wait, too much smoke, too much, you know, you know what they just they're not going to be that honest with you. They're friends with you. You know, Johnny Trigg told ⁓ one of my mentors when he went to class, Johnny the great Johnny Trigg, the godfather of of barbecue, of competition barbecue. He said, you know, all your friends tell you that, you know, you need to go and open a restaurant because your food is the best barbecue they've ever had before in their lives. Yeah, well guess what? You know why they tell you that? It's free. And they didn't have to cook it. That's harsh. When's the last time your best friend and everything went, Yeah, man, dude, d this just this sucks. Yeah. People don't realize it. They don't think about it. And it's true. I've tasted food and had my friends taste it and they're like, ⁓ dude, that's like the best I've ever tasted. I'm thinking, dude, it's oversalted and I burned the bottom. I know, I've had your steak and it tastes pretty damn good. Yeah, that's because I hit it that day. It was really good. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, that steak was just outside of the top twenty. Now the top I came in like around eighteenth or nineteenth out of about a hundred and something that day. Nice. Yeah. That was a world championship where you get to taste my steak.
speaker-0: So how long have you when did you start doing the ⁓ your competition? How long have you actually been doing that?
speaker-1: This is my third year of competition. ⁓ I started with the SCA State Cookoff Association. and then quickly thereafter, Dirk Mullins and Jody Harris created the Rib Cookoff Association, where we just cook ribs ⁓ and do categories of ribs, ⁓ A and a B rib, baby backs, spare ribs, and that kind of thing. And now I'm currently now they added chicken wings as a points category along with ribs and they've added the category of stake this year. And Denton was the first
speaker-0: What is your so you and you have like a point system, don't you? And you're close to the top right now in the R C O A. So
speaker-1: I am I I am currently the points leader out of about I don't remember exactly how many, but there's over twenty that are in the top twenty ⁓ in points. And ⁓ I have taken two first place, second place, a third place, and a fifth place, and eighth place to put me at the points leader currently, which is a huge honor 'cause I'm here to tell you there are a lot of great state cooks out there that are better than me. But I've learned a lot from them.
speaker-0: Yeah, and in your last three competitions you've ⁓ made a lot first place in two of the last three, is that right?
speaker-1: I've made ⁓ yes, I made a first place in Jones, an eighth place in Blanchard. That was a big mistake, and I know exactly what I did, and I corrected it, and I took a first place two weeks later in Elk City, Oklahoma. So what do you get when you win first place? ⁓ you get ⁓ you know, like this little one up here, this leather bound award right here. Yeah, first place, ⁓
speaker-0: You say you know.
speaker-1: You get money. I've ⁓ got a good money out of it. And then you get, you know, you know, little things like this, you know, and stuff of that nature. So yeah, you get hardware and money. Right. And bragging rights and you get to, you know, try and be top man on the totem pole for a little bit until somebody knocks you down, I guess. I don't know. I've never I'm not very competitive. I show up because I really enjoy the environment. ⁓ Ribcoff Association, their motto is, you know, have fun. You know, it's cooks for cooks and it's going to a parking lot and hang out with your buddies and grilling and turning food in and then seeing, you know, who who did better than who, I guess. I mean, that's really all it is.
speaker-0: there on that ⁓ second one that you knew exactly what you did wrong. Now do you did you know what you did wrong during the cook? Is there a time to where when you're doing something you're like instantly like I I done messed up, but I'm gonna go through with it. ⁓ you you kind of feel something during the cook that you may have ⁓ felt you could have done differently. Yeah.
speaker-1: I knew exactly what I'd done wrong because I cooked. So a lot of times we'll prepare two steaks. ⁓ and that process alone is ⁓ so detailed. ⁓ but I did a ⁓ I I do a particular type of brining process with kosher salt. And ⁓ I did my process, but I was too heavy-handed on the kosher salt. And so the practice steak I cooked and cut and was serving around and it was too salty. And I was like, there's no way to unsalt these two pieces of meat. It's d I'm done. And so I was like, I just had to do the best I can. And so I ⁓ cooked the other one during the you know prepped prepped and cooked for the for the ⁓ judges and turned it in and hoped for the best. And out of all the cooks that cooked, I was still in the top ten. I was in eighth place, but it knocked me down probably three to four at least. Probably taught me it probably took me out of the top five, I would argue, I guess. You don't know. The judges, it's all subjective guys. They're not trained judges, which I love. Love untra I like you and Dolores, y'all can judge these competitions. Those are the kind of competitions I want to cook in.
speaker-0: Right, instead of the K C B S ⁓ certification that are that are told how to judge that they this is more opinionated. It's just the person off the street with their own exact opinion for sure. They're not trained or coerced or told anything like that, you know. This is how you budget your your competition. Now if there was there's ⁓ people listening here, if there was one or two techniques, is there anything you could give the listeners out there that could make them a better steak cook today? ⁓ what's one thing that you would say everybody, even me, myself, the lures all could do to up our game right now?
speaker-1: Give him some tips. Absolutely. ⁓ the the the the the first thing I would say is ⁓ the cut of meat. ⁓ get a thick cut. Whenever you're gonna get a steak, you need to get a thicker cut. And I'm talking between an inch and a quarter and an inch and a half. ⁓ that's or is it inch yeah, it's yeah, it's inch and a quarter to inch and inch and a half to inch and just over an inch and a half. But brining your steak with a little kosher salt for a couple hours prior, a little salt on both sides, and then flip it every thirty minutes. When it's time to cook your steak, take it out of the refrigerator and never put it back in the refrigerator. You want that steak to start coming up to not room temperature. Well, it might even go past room temperature, but you want it to get to around 80 to 85 degrees. ⁓ that's not necessary, but what it does is It allows you to better time your cook because I cook mine basically one minute and twenty seconds or one minute and twenty-five seconds twice on each side, adjusting and moving for the ⁓ the grilled rate marks that we make for competition steak. So bitter cut of steak a a thicker cut of steak, ⁓ and then the ⁓ the the salt ⁓ kosher salt brine light brining for two hours. And then know your temperatures and use a temperature probe to find out when your steak is at the right temperature for what you like. So a temp probe is paramount.
speaker-0: Excellent. Yeah, I gotta get a temp pro and and continuously moving it. I know someone, I can't I don't know, I don't think it was you, ⁓ maybe it was that told me that they have a ⁓ timer that just they set it for they said like two minutes and then when the two minute timer goes off, it's just can it just restarts automatically. So ⁓ whenever it they don't have to hit anything and it just kinda is on a recycle, they can set it to whatever time they want and then it instantly just keeps on doing. Do you do anything like that? I
speaker-1: wear a timer around my neck and ⁓ I have three sets of timers on this particular it's a thermal pro ⁓ or thermal works is a thermal works ⁓ thermal works ⁓ competition timer ⁓ it's like a stopwatch around your neck and I'll set it dependent on weather conditions I'll set it for anywhere from one fifth a minute fifteen to a minute twenty five and it's based on the temperature the humidity of the area where we are and also ⁓ I'll probe my steak to see where it is temperature wise when I begin my cook. And yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause all those things, you know, can can factor if it starts, you know, raining or gets too hot or cold, all that can affect ⁓ how you're gonna perform or what what you're gonna do, aren't isn't it?
speaker-1: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Now and one of the other techniques that ⁓ people need to use I would recommend using is shakarding your steak. for the most people, honestly just taking a fork and taking it and just using that fork, you know, to punch a bunch of holes in both sides and learn the anatomy of a ribeye. Learn what the spinalis is, what the longisimus is, and you know, what the ⁓ what's the other one called? There's another the trihart. Of a steak. It's three different muscles at one end. At the head of the cow. you have a bigger you have three pieces of meat. And as it goes towards the tail of the cow through the chuck and the ribeye, from the chuck to the ribeye to the back of the cow, you lose the third piece, which is the beef tenderloin that we all know, which is turning into flee mignon. That disappears. And you have two pieces of meat now on a ribeye. So the next time you're in the and you're in the grocery store and you're looking at meat, look at the ribeyes and You'll see that long spinalis part on the bottom that looks much more, you know, fat laden, right, with marbling. And then you'll see this big piece of meat, which is a longisimus, longisimus. I hate saying that word. ⁓ but there's longisimus, and then there's the triheart, which is right down here. And when the trihart is present, it's a circular piece of meat right between the spinalis and the longisimus up here. And what happens is it makes the spinalis, which is the cap. larger and it makes the longism smaller so it makes a better ribeye. That's the one you want. It's called the tryhard. Or at least that's what we call it. Butchers don't call it that. We call it a try heart. I learned that. Way.
speaker-0: Hard. I know this isn't ⁓ what you use in competition, but one of your favorite stakes, why don't you talk about that a minute, is also the terrace major. ⁓
speaker-1: The the the terrace major. ⁓ I wish I could speak French right now because I would be just doing you know. ⁓ the the the terrace major is by far the poor man's filet mignon. It is second to none. A cow has two of them, ⁓ and they're located real close to the flat iron, which is part of the chuck roll, which is on the front of the cow. Again, it doesn't do a lot of work, so ⁓ it's very, very beefy. And it's also known as the poor man's steak, ⁓ the poor man's tenderloin, it's a petite steak, it's the butcher's cut. ⁓ you don't see them a lot because there's just not a lot of them. It's a really small, about one pound, and it's a very cylindery kind of it think of a pork tinderloin, but on a cow. That's really what it is. And yes, I ⁓ I cook them several different ways. I just love to smoke them. I don't even see I just smoke ⁓ and and yeah, with seasonings on them, take ⁓ to about a one thirty four and then they will do what's known as a thermal ⁓ they'll they'll have thermal momentum and they'll just basically go a little bit longer and get about one thirty eight, one thirty nine, slice and serve. Yeah. And you can buy ⁓ in bulk from US chef stores. Yeah, we saw the when we went up there. Yeah, I know. He saw hasn't bought you a bag home yet. No, he hasn't. ⁓ All you do is I'm waiting. If you if you buy a bag of them, you'll get about twelve to fifteen in total. And out of that bag, when you trim silver skin, you will honestly get around a pound of waste, which means you have a hundred almost ninety ninety nine percent ⁓ you know, dollar for you know, dollar, you know, bang for your buck. And you'll have about twelve or fifteen that you can vacuum seal one or two, 'cause if it's a family of three, you know, you you can cook two of ⁓ at a time. They're fabulous. Highly recommend. Yeah. Once you
speaker-0: The reason I've held off at the moment is I gotta get it back. Well, I was waiting. I need to get a new vacuum sealer. So before I get ⁓ I didn't w I was like if we could ziplock ⁓ but I I just need to get a vacuum seal. That way when I get ⁓ we can do it right, have ⁓ sealed, throw ⁓ in the freezer. So I'm gonna be getting me a new sealer, and then once I get one, we'll definitely be made. Because you made a believer out of us because Greg here actually let us try one. Yeah. And ⁓ we we brought I brought it home and me and Dolores had it. ⁓ I marinated it for about I didn't know exactly how to cook it, but we marinated it for about thirty or forty five minutes in some marinade and went ahead and cooked that up and she thought it was fabulous. And she's not a big fan of ⁓ the what is it, the filet mignon. Is that the same? Yeah. I think she says it's too thick. Well or ⁓ or maybe it's the way I cook it, but that's her least.
speaker-1: I just don't like the way it tastes. You do not like the buttery consistency of it. There's something about it. I just don't like the way it tastes. It's like a slippery maybe. Cause 'cause the the thing about a Flemignon is that it is the most buttery piece of beef there is. It's it's just it's slippery. It's weird. We for my wife, Lori, ⁓ for our anniversary, maybe? Or her birthday for her birthday, I think. ⁓ for a birthday. ⁓ I made fleton and I did bacon wrapped and I seared both sides, took it to about a hundred and thirty-four, hundred and thirty-five, and let it cook to one thirty-nine thermal mo thermal momentum. I had forgotten how amazing the consistency is of the beef in a flet mignon. But I understand. Maybe terrorist means you like more. It's a little bit more consistent. Yeah, he ate it. He likes He likes it, but I just I don't know, there's something about it that just doesn't taste right to me. Maybe you're more of a sirloin gal. Maybe you like a a nice, you know, New York strip. I like it. How do you like your steak prepared as far as T bones? well hang on. Well, medium rare is wait so he like you like rare, John? He likes rare.
speaker-0: I can I can yeah, I can definitely do do rare. So yeah. One twenty five to w you know, what right around one twenty five to one thirty max, somewhere in there.
speaker-1: Sure. Hers you need to pull at one thirty five. Yeah. Your target temper Dolores is one thirty five.
speaker-0: Maybe I'll redo it and and
speaker-1: Yeah, no, no. You're you're right. One thirty five with a carryover to what one twenty eight, one thirty for you, but for her, you want one thirty five with a carryover to what one forty one, one forty two.
speaker-0: And it will be due. Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah. And don't please Okay, so Meathead Godwin, who is a meatologist person and ⁓ you know, he has a book out where he talks about doing the rest, you know, doing fifteen, twenty, thirty minute rest for your steak. No, you're just gonna be eating a cold steak. Okay. The rest period is when you bring it in and you start plating up and doing your sides and prepping to get to the table to cut and serve and eat. So don't add in a ten minute window where you're just you're gonna be eating cold steak. It's not worth it.
speaker-0: Use the rest time wisely by prepping and plating and w whatever else you need to finalize. Yes. So that by the time you're ready to eat it's just it's ready to go. Absolutely.
speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. There's no need, guys. There's no need to eat cold steak. You paid a lot of money for it. Enjoy it. It's is it gonna lose any any more liquid than it already has or whatever? No. It really isn't. Yeah. See, what if I ate mine cooked? Yeah, eat your cooked. Yeah. Well, you know, no, medium medium to medium rare is fine. I mean that's that's why we pull it one thirty four, one thirty five. is because we're we're we're looking for that just barely inside of what's considered medium. Yeah. You know, 'cause one thirty yeah, one thirty eight to one forty five I think is medium, isn't it? Something like that? Or one forty five to one fifty or something.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think what you get almost to one forty five, one fifty, aren't you almost well done at that point or is it a little higher than that?
speaker-1: No, I think it's higher than that. I don't know. There's there's a thing on the there's a magnet on the says something. I always forget. I
speaker-0: back ⁓ to the ⁓ competition. A lot of people think, you know, do you make your own seasonings, your own sauces and everything, you know, ⁓ that goes is it a a a chore on any of that? Not at all.
speaker-1: We don't we don't we don't make our own seasonings. There are guys that do. I'm not gonna say there aren't, 'cause there are plenty that do. I mean, obviously Heath Riles was doing something at some point. but no, typically the seasons I use are a combination of seasons that exist already. And some of them are ones that are my are my sponsors and those sponsors I use their rubs, ⁓ you know.
speaker-0: Yeah, I just wanted to get into that too. ⁓ so you you've been doing this and you have developed some sponsors that you want to go over some of those? Yeah.
speaker-1: No, thank you. Thank you for asking about my sponsors. ⁓ so yeah, my sponsors, ⁓ starting with my first sponsor ever was Champion Barbecue Champion Barbecue Supply of Oklahoma City. ⁓ there's one in Amarill, and there's one in ⁓ the Oklahoma City one. And ⁓ they're all things barbecue, of course. You've been there, John. We've done a live from there, which is it's a lot of fun going and test rubs before you buy them. ⁓ Tennessee Cooking Wood.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: has taken me on as a sponsor. I'm super excited because they make great, they produce the most wonderful wood that is the exact right percentage of moisture for smoking. Perfect for smoking, clean wood comes out of ⁓ Leapers Holler in ⁓ Tennessee. So it's kind of cool. ⁓ they're they're a great company. ⁓ the good charcoal company just picked me up. ⁓ so they're my fuel sponsor. I use their lump charcoal and I use their ⁓ briquettes and they use a they source what's known the wood is called ⁓ acacia wood from Nambia, South Africa. And the cool thing is that it's fully s ⁓ environmentally friendly because they're clearing off groundbrush so that cheetahs and other wildlife can track their game and stay alive. And I'm all for cats taking down big game. And ⁓ 'cause it's about the kitties and I'm a cat person. Dolores knows that because I follow her and her white cat. And as a matter of fact, he's right there.
speaker-2: There he is.
speaker-1: So yeah.
speaker-0: That's ⁓ the ⁓ that's that's the mascot of the podcast, that cat.
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, exactly. And ⁓ so yeah, and then ⁓ Bobby Oliver, beep ⁓ Bobby Oliver, Bobby Oliver, Twisted Oliver Seasoning. ⁓ I'm an ambassador for his product, BPOS and Inspector's Choice, ⁓ barbecue sauces out of Lubbock, Texas. So yeah. They're great. Anyways, I greatly appreciate them too, because truly I am just new into barbecue and they took a chance and everything in sponsoring me.
speaker-0: So yeah, thanks for asking. Excellent. Yep. Yep. Excellent. Excellent products. Glad ⁓ glad you got some great sponsors there and ⁓ that support you during the journey for sure. Yeah, it helps you out.
speaker-1: Yes. Makes a difference. It's a validation thing too, it really is. It's a validation of all of your efforts.
speaker-0: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And when is you you got some upti upcoming competitions here soon? ⁓ anything? How often do you do these?
speaker-1: ⁓ you can have one to three a month. In MDM three. And if yeah, and if you're chasing points, ⁓ so we call it chasing points. ⁓ I'm in the top ten obviously. I'm first place and I'm gonna try and stay there as much as possible. And so the next one is in Larnad, Kansas on the twenty fifth of July. I might go this weekend and do a rib competition with no steak category, but I might just go cook some ribs with some friends of mine.
speaker-0: Well me.
speaker-1: For the fun of it on July fourth. Although I do have a Weber twenty two kettle that I just built that is American that I need to maybe cook on that too. I don't know. I saw that. I mean it's it's it's awesome, but Dolores, I don't know what to do with it. I really don't. I I already have two Weber twenty twos and a Weber eighteen. Yeah. Apparently not. You know what I'm yeah, I was thought about, you know, maybe raffle it off and make some money. I don't know.
speaker-2: Did you see it?
speaker-0: Can't have too many.
speaker-1: The capitalist in me. Right? I figured ten dollars a hole, you know, thirty holes or something. I don't think people go for that?
speaker-0: Yeah. He thinks they'd be on board. Yep.
speaker-1: I'll put ten. There you go, see. Huh? Ooh, if I ooh, if I get enough money, if I c if I could actually generate enough money, I was thinking that the next one of the grills I've been looking at is the new hasty bake ranger that has pinwheels instead of the current system on the current ventilation system. So yeah. I don't know.
speaker-0: Already got an entry.
speaker-1: You know how it is, John. We have one grill and we want more.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You'll always have one you prefer, ⁓ you know, most of the time, or maybe depending on what you cook, which also brings me, is there a particular what do you normally cook your steaks on? Do you want to go into any of that?
speaker-1: Yeah, no, absolutely. ⁓ all of my steak competition ⁓ no, I can't say that. My steak competitions, I typically use a hasty bake ranger set up with ⁓ grill grates, which are a brand of aluminum extruded plates that we use to cook on for to make our ⁓ make those grill marks.
speaker-0: Yeah. You can r lower and raise that to kind of get right where you want it to get the exact sear you want to ⁓ on the firebox.
speaker-1: Yeah, the the the fire box actually has is on an elevator so you can pull it up and down to bring that hot you bring that temperature up because my grill grates, ⁓ I use an IR gun to ⁓ judge heat, you know, and I will be between five eighty five and six fifteen, five hundred and eighty five and six hundred and fifteen degrees when I go to put that steak on.
speaker-0: Five eighty five to six fifteen. Yeah. That's
speaker-1: Yep. With charcoal is
speaker-0: Is that what you recommend ⁓ most people do? ⁓ cook ⁓ up that high?
speaker-1: I recommend you cook around five hundred over five hundred and fifty degrees. ⁓ and then w okay, here's here's something that people don't realize. You don't get so so the effect of the crust that you get from cooking at high temperature, ⁓ you people think that it needs to be moist to do that. And that's the absolute opposite of what it truly needs to be. To get them what's called the mallard effect, which is that crust that we all like on a steak. That mallard effect only takes place with the absence of liquid, the absence of moisture. So you don't want to, you know, take oil and put it on there and then drop your steak. You want to put it on a dry heat, a dry heated surface, i.e. a cast iron skillet.
speaker-0: You were making me think right then of ⁓ something else totally off stake, smashed burgers. And ⁓ you want that it's the same you put it on a cast iron skillet, you don't want no oil, you wanna smash it, and if you do it right, you wanna build when you lift it, you don't have to worry about anything in between the smasher or the s or the meat because it's stuck. It's stuck to it. It'll pull up and then you wanna get under it to get the crust and that crust is the flavor, that crust is the good stuff. And that would be the same way you'd want to do your steak in as in essence. Is that is that pretty accurate? Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, exactly, because the mallard effect basically the the steak adheres to the pan because the pan is hot and the meat is cold. However, when the steak when whenever the meat starts to reach the same temperature as the actual surface it's on, it will neutralize and it'll release. And when it releases, then you pull it and then you will have that crust that you like and not leave.
speaker-0: So you kinda want it to release on its own.
speaker-1: Yeah, you want to release on your own. Think about ⁓ pancakes, right? When you see the little bubbles, right, on top of the pancake mix, you know that it's starting to basically release itself from
speaker-0: Pan. See in ⁓ the bubbles.
speaker-1: Bubbles tell us. In steak it doesn't do that, but you just time it right and you just check it by kind of popping on the edges a little bit.
speaker-0: Yeah, and that's another thing about Greg here is you're kind of a teacher at heart, aren't you? Absolutely. And and everything when when everything that ⁓ he is speaking, it's kind of like in an educ educational style. ⁓ because and that's what's great about podcasts or whatever you're doing is to give someone some value, make them learn something else. ⁓ you go into a lot of history and science into into your cooking as to the where and why. ⁓ something is affected and and that kind of thing. And I think that's really cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, no, I'm I I am an educator and because I'm an educator, everything I I just want people to have the best experience they can in the backyard, and if I can help contribute to that, I I find that just fabulous and and fun. You know. And I've had a lot of people say, Thank you for just helping me, you know, learn more about it and not criticizing me for the way I do it. It's like, no, there's more than one way to get good food on the plate from the grill.
speaker-0: Yeah, you were mentioning wings. Is that something you you say you wanted to kinda get more into, is the wing competition? So
speaker-1: ⁓ two years ago, ⁓ at the World Championship, I took fifth place in wings. And ⁓ I've had a love hate relationship with the little turds ever since. But yeah, I ⁓ I like cooking wings. I never ate wings before I got into backyard barbecue. Do you do like the whole wing? Or just or do you like what is it? Like the the drum and the flat. Yeah, we buy it. We yeah, well, we buy them with a wing tip. ⁓ and the drummy all attached. Okay and we'll we'll separ well yeah we'll butcher ⁓ ourselves. But ⁓ in competition we turn in w wings what's called flaps and drums.
speaker-0: You do that's what I was gonna say. Do you do flats and dramats or you both of them? You do five five of each one?
speaker-1: Five. Type it. And of course, to my consternation, because honestly, flats are beautiful and they eat great. Why do we need those little drum drumettes? They're just ⁓ you look like a rabbit or something. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, I know. So I I learned how to cook those and I do love cooking them. And the best way to cook them, of course, John, I've told you, is the Vortex on a Weber twenty two. Can't beat it. Or you can z ⁓ well on a pellet grill you do zero to four hundred. I've done the zero four zero to four hundred several have you done that?
speaker-0: Absolutely. I learned that from a buddy of mine that's ⁓ that I learned ⁓ that I follow and and he showed that and it was zero to four hundred. He puts everything on those things ⁓ before he turns it on. ⁓ I I don't know exactly, but like forty five minutes, say. Yeah, and it works. And you're good. And you might flip ⁓ part of the way through.
speaker-1: Flip ⁓ about once, yes sir. Same thing. You got that pit boss, I got that camp chef. Yeah, I do it on my camp chef all the time.
speaker-0: Yeah, it it's it's it's like magic. Someone else ⁓ that ⁓ that I follow that that does cooks, I don't think he does competition. He swears by ⁓ chicken wings or chickens is boiling hot water and pouring it on the skin and that causes it to tighten up before you cook it too crisp. But have you ever done any of that or ⁓ would you try that?
speaker-1: So actually when I took fifth place in wings and ⁓ in at the World Championship, ⁓ I boiled them for seven minutes prior to doing anything else. After they were boiled seven minutes, which by the way, the boiling process, it gets it hot enough to basically render out the fat in the skin. That's what you're doing. You're drying the skin out. And then I injected them. Yes, we inject wings, we inject everything other than steak. Steak's different. ⁓ I injected them before I cooked them.
speaker-0: So everything. Even the wings you inject, those little guys.
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. Wings and drumets we inject the heck out of them too. Think about taking a bite.
speaker-0: Put it in there till no ⁓ till it just comes out. How much
speaker-1: Well we just we just we just y we just pump a little bit into each each piece of there's two pieces of meat on a wing and there's ⁓ on a on a flat and there's ⁓ three little pieces of meat on a drumette and you just basically get a little shot into each.
speaker-0: A flavor and make them a little juicy.
speaker-1: Yep, little flavor. white pepper works great inside of meat for a little beat, a little h a little heat.
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. You say black pepper? No. ⁓ white pepper. Yeah. White pepper.
speaker-1: White pepper. Much more intense flavor. I'll have to try that. It's fun. Yeah, just put a little like like even if even if you just put a little rub on if you just put a little sprinkle really high up of white pepper on whatever you're cooking, with whatever rub you use, add a little white pepper to it. ⁓ yeah. It it it very intense. I use it in Texas a lot.
speaker-0: I think we got some. Give that a try. And do you also do a little that little salt brine on those wings first, you know, an hour, two hours?
speaker-1: ⁓ I don't do them. I usually like to leave them out ⁓ for a couple of days prior to competition. I'll leave in the refrigerator for like three days. Because what do refrigerators do but basically wick moisture out of the chamber? That's all you know how air conditioning works, right? Our our refrigerators work. Yeah, so all it's doing is drying that stuff out. Think about when you leave something uncovered in a refrigerator and you're like, ooh. Right? And that's all you're doing.
speaker-0: You like to dry ⁓ out, sir. Yeah.
speaker-1: is using it to you know, to dry stuff out. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yep. Yeah. And then I hear a lot of people say that or they put their chicken out the night before, whatever, just in the fridge to kinda dry it out.
speaker-1: Yeah, that's ⁓ yeah, you're just using that refrigerator for doing doing what it does best and that's drive stuff out.
speaker-0: And what else do you ⁓ is that pretty much ⁓ you do wing or not wings, ⁓ rib competition. You do enter some ribs as well, don't you? Yeah, I
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I I I am a rib competition cook. ⁓ I'm basically doing a little bit less this year when it comes to that, as far as every category, every time, two ribs, three ribs. I'm not doing that. I'm just doing singular and I'm focusing on steak right now because of my position. but no, I love I love cooking spare ribs and I I toil and suffer at doing baby back ribs, but
speaker-0: It works out. What's what's what's so ⁓ bad about baby back ribs?
speaker-1: They're just so annoying because they don't just lay there like they're supposed to. You know, they they're all curled up and I've cut I've actually taken to a butcher and you know you know that curvature, you know, that that that curve that they have, you know, like that? I've had ⁓ actually cut part of it off to make them actually lay flatter. So and they're not as meaty. They're they're tender and all, and we do amazing things. Yeah. We do but we we do amazing things with ⁓ and they are delicious. But they're only more popular than spare ribs because of outback steakhouse. I want my baby back baby back ribs. Yeah. Yeah. Spare road is keen. ⁓
speaker-0: And you can enter can you enter any ribs you want, or is it pretty much I tell you baby backs, I tell you spare?
speaker-1: Yeah, you'll have cat yeah, you'll have a you'll have a spare category and a baby bat car category, or you'll have a double spare, or you'll have a spare and a double baby, or you'll have the the the most one of the most fun things to do is have two spare categories, one wet, one dry. One wet, one dry, which means no sauce on one of them. Yeah. They call it no sauce, I guess. They call it no sauce. So one one sauce, one no sauce.
speaker-0: Wet one dry. One messy, one not messy, really. Pretty much. But the sau the sauce is ⁓ it i it's kinda all messy, you know. And you're the home cook, you don't always c sauce ⁓ up quite like that as ⁓ you're doing in competitions. But I mean you've got to get that sauce all over ⁓ make ⁓ look all pretty and everything else like that. So
speaker-1: Like little mahogany ⁓ sticks or something, yeah. the the thing about it too is that I never I never ate sauce on my ribs until I got into backyard barbecue because honestly from coming from Texas, we don't do sauce on ribs, brisket, anything. You know, it's on the table, we just don't use it that much. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, and a and for me we usually just well would add a little bit on your plate and you can dip the brisket or you can dip the ribs. You know.
speaker-1: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-0: Well it it you allow like Dolores over here, she does a lot of low carb and keto, so she can choose the sauce she wants. I can choose the sauce I want and
speaker-1: Normally I don't put any sauce on it. I just eat it. Yeah, yeah. If there's enough smoke on it and all that, I mean y you've got plenty of flavor the way it is. You know. Yeah. I was just at a barbecue ⁓ joint. I stopped at a barbecue joint in Noble, Oklahoma, ⁓ the other day just to try their ribs and brisket. And they made their brisket and it was really smoky and it was great with their barbecue sauce on it. It was good by itself, but They actually put no seasoning on their brisket. And I was like, That's different. It works, but it was different.
speaker-0: So it's pretty much strictly the s the smoke and the sauce then, huh? Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-1: It's it's because the pit is because the owner, the pit master, that's how he likes brisket. With no seasoning whatsoever on it. That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard of. But it was good. I got no complaints.
speaker-0: Yeah, we talk about seasoning and ⁓ you know, what you season it with and sauce it with. But one ⁓ I don't know, controversial or occasional people are for or against a binder. Do you use binder on on your ribs of any sort? Do you add mustard, wash your shirt sauce, just let it sweat?
speaker-1: ⁓ after after you inject, ⁓ and then you're basically using paper towels to kind of dry it off a little bit because the injection is everywhere in the pan. ⁓ I don't use a binder on my ribs. If they're s if I pull them out and if I'm cooking at home and I'm cooking a rack of ribs and I feel like they're a little dry, sure. I'll slather them with little mustard. Yeah. ⁓ my ⁓
speaker-0: It might affect your ⁓ smoke ring. Is you think there's any truth to that?
speaker-1: No, I d I don't I really don't subscribe to that belief. ⁓ because it's just vinegar. I mean it's really that's all it is, right? Vinegar and water. The water's gonna evaporate. The vinegar is just gonna stay behind. There's little bit of a flavoring, but you're not gonna taste it if your rubs are, you know, on there. ⁓ my brisket Yeah, my brisket, I ⁓ cut a little bit of pickle juice with mustard for a binder if I need it, you know, but I don't always use it. Just depends on how wet the meat is.
speaker-0: Heck yeah, 'cause if as long as it sticks to it, that's really all that matters.
speaker-1: Yeah, that that's all you're doing, guys. You're just basically sticking the rubs to it until it gets to the fire. And water does that just fine. Take your hand, you know, get a little water in your hand and just slather it around on the meat. You know? Yeah. People get very elaborate when it comes to binders and stuff and people want to complicate it. And barbecue, grilling barbecue, grilling and barbecuing is you know, you you talked about how to do history. And the fact that as a historian, you know, I look at the history of barbecue and it is truly the first American fusion cuisine that involves Native Americans, you know, the indigenous peoples, ⁓ the s the the the ⁓ African Americans that were enslaved during the, you know, ⁓ that the you know pre-Civil War antebellum period and post antebellum, honestly, they Some of the first jobs that they ever did was cook barbecue for the people that were their former masters. And ⁓ the Scottish influence, the Jewish influence, the European influence, all of it melded together, gave us the first American fusion cuisine, which is barbecue.
speaker-0: That's awesome. Yeah, it all basically came through history. Yeah.
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, just yeah. People been cooking with fire for thousands of years. Your buff your your big green egg. The history of your big green egg, the ceramic cooker, the kamado as the actual term is, you know, is i is is thousands of years old. Tandouris from Turkey. ⁓ no India, excuse me, India, not Turkey or Turkey or whatever they're calling themselves now.
speaker-0: Also, yeah, we talk ⁓ a little coffee here and there. Tell the story about the where the Americano came from. ⁓ Wow.
speaker-1: ⁓ the story of the Americano. Yeah. Okay, that's a fun one. Yeah. So one of the first things whenever I was hanging out with John on his breakfast mornings, ⁓ I'm trying to spur on conversation and stuff as I do in the chat windows. The chat window. ⁓ I asked about the history of the Americano, knowing full well that I knew the story. ⁓ the legend goes that American Allied forces that were in Italy were exposed to a way of brewing coffee that we had never seen before. We drank coffee in America, and that's a whole nother story that involves the revolution. However, the the American soldier is over there and at that time, if you wanted a coffee in Italy, say you're in Rome, you would go up to a a ⁓ cafe vendor and he would have a cart, like a push cart, like you think a hot dog cart in New York City. Well he would go up to this cart And they would take a small little cup that looked like a little coffee cup with a little bitty finger handle on on the side of it called a demitas. And they would take that demitas and they would spray hot steam into it to clean it. And then they would basically do a draw, right? Or do a pull, right? A pull of an espresso. Then you would drink the espresso and you would give the demitas back to the individual, and then he would clean it and then serve it to the next. Guest. This is how they drank coffee. Well, Americans come along and you give them this little cup with this little bit of coffee in it, and they're like, I've been ripped off. I need more. Well, the Italians got smart and went, okay, fine. They got a bigger cup, put two shots of espresso in it, put a bunch of hot water on top of it, and went, here. The Americana was born. And they named it the Americano. It's a slight against us. We take perfectly fine good espresso and destroy it with hot water.
speaker-0: We c yeah, we water ours down a little bit. Yep. Yeah. Yep. ⁓ but it it is also what I do drink regularly, so that's that's where he gave me the lesson on that too. So I I I enjoy
speaker-1: A good Americano, but I usually do a dopio Americano. I like a double shot in mine.
speaker-0: The double shot's good. Strengthen it up. Mm-hmm.
speaker-1: Double shot Americano. And and just real quick, truly, the backstory as we come up on the 250th anniversary of America, the backstory of coffee in America. ⁓ and and these are told tales and legends, and we have documentation of ⁓ first ⁓ of of people ⁓ during the revolutionary period that did this. And this was ⁓ coffee, the introduction to coffee to ⁓ the colonists and everything was honestly driven by the women. Of the colony of the revolution, the Patriots, actually, the Patriot women. ⁓ little known fact. Women would have tea socials. We are the the 13 colonies were all separate, but they all were English colonies. So they all drank tea, i.e., the big party in Boston Harbor. Right? You know, party. Anyways, they their silent protest against the crown. was they had discovered this new thing from the new world, South America, that was called coffee. So instead of having tea social gatherings, they had coffee gatherings and they started serving coffee instead of tea. And this was a protest by the patriot women of America during the colonial during during the colon colonial times.
speaker-0: How they switch from tea to coffee. Yeah.
speaker-1: And we became coffee drinkers because we associated tea with England, who we had just kicked off the continent. Shout out to my boy General Nathaniel Green. I'm just saying Yorktown. Yeah.
speaker-0: Right on. Right on.
speaker-1: I got an I got I got a General Washington's favorite general, the man who was pegged to be the next ⁓ commander of the colonial of the ⁓ continental army if if ⁓ President Washington General Washington went down in battle.
speaker-0: Well, I mean we've had a great, great time with you on here. Where can people find you? If they what what what what would you like someone to do ⁓ right now? Is there any particular place? I know you're on ⁓ you do you're on the TikTok. ⁓ do you have ⁓ anything you'd like to put out there?
speaker-1: No, no, absolutely. Yeah, thank you. No, I I am Sun's Backyard Barbecue on pretty much all the platforms. I don't really do Insta that much or X. ⁓ I am truly on TikTok the most, but I also love being on Facebook and I'm trying to branch out with John's help, Okie smoking here, ⁓ to YouTube to do more longer content.
speaker-0: Yeah. And we'd like I'm gonna ⁓ get s ⁓ like to get up with maybe get some lives and get some content with you over there as well. And be sure and I'll put all the links to everything, it'll be in the show notes of this episode. So if you wanna just email those, make sure we got all those accurate and everything, and you people can go down there and go ahead and look you up. And be sure and check him out, follow him, competition ⁓ guru in here.
speaker-1: Yeah, thanks. Appreciate it.
speaker-0: How ⁓ so how many competitions would you say you've done so far if you were to count ⁓ all? Do you have any ideal? ⁓
speaker-1: Somewhere around I mean, probably about anywhere from twelve a year to about fifteen a year, and I've done about six, seven this year. So roughly close to maybe about forty five, fifty. I I'm very young into this. Yeah, very young into this. Very, very new to this.
speaker-0: 'Cause there's people you're going up against that's in the hundreds or even probably thousands.
speaker-1: Absolutely. Absolutely. I I am Yeah, I'm surrounded by amazing competition cooks and I'm learning so much and I'm so grateful for it.
speaker-0: I am surrounded by lions. That's a absolutely sounds awesome. Anything else you'd like to ⁓ shout out? ⁓ go ahead and mention ⁓ out there you miss anything?
speaker-1: You know what my my biggest thing is, John, when people get on my TikTok, ask me questions. Keep me talking and and answering questions. Cause I love talking and and just talking about what we do and why we do it. Thank you for listening to the Okie Smoking Podcast. Episodes drop every Monday. Don't forget to follow this podcast, or you might miss out on some delicious creations. You can also find us on our website, OkieSmoking.com, and on YouTube and other social media platforms. Until next time, keep firing up that grill.
speaker-1: The the the terrace major. ⁓ I wish I could speak French right now because I would be just doing ⁓ you know. ⁓ the the the terrace major is by far the poor man's filet mignon. It's fun. Yeah, just put a little like like even if even if you just put a little rub on if you just put a little sprinkle really high up of white pepper on whatever you're cooking, with whatever rub you use, add a little white pepper to it. ⁓ yeah. I use it in Texas a lot. Time to fire up that grill. From smoked pork to smash burgers, outdoor cooking just tastes better. This is the Okie Smokin' Podcast. And here's your host, John Barry.
speaker-0: Welcome back into the Okie Smoking Podcast. Today we have a very special guest on today, Greg from Sons, a Backyard Barbecue, ⁓ who is ⁓ won many different competitions in the ⁓ state competition. He's gonna go into some details on that today, ⁓ right here in Oklahoma. He also ⁓ is ⁓ likes to go ahead and help those in the backyard be able to create. Isn't that kind of how you got into this? You kind of want to ⁓ help the average backyard cook understand how to make competition barbecue and ⁓ improve their own cooking skills, you know, for their friends, for their family and ⁓ that type of thing. And and go ahead and kick us off there, Greg. How exactly did you get ⁓ get get get started in this? Just tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah well
speaker-1: First, Nashville, I wanna I want to thank you and Dolores for having me on the Okie Smoking Podcast. ⁓ it's just huge to, you know, be able to come and talk about what we do in parking lots and fields in the middle of nowhere. But ⁓ yeah, no, so I honestly I started out doing ⁓ son's backyard barbecue, ⁓ just cooking for myself, and then I got into competition steak cook-offs with the SCA Steak Cookoff Association, and ⁓ I discovered that. Competition barbecue for me isn't about, you know, teaching backyard cooks different way, you know, you know, how to do things differently. It's just how to improve the things they are currently doing in the backyard. I I would say that doing one makes you better at the other. ⁓ I cook better steaks, I cook better ribs, I cook better brisket, ⁓ I cook better chicken. ⁓ all of it because of just techniques I've learned that I want to just help and and just show others. In the backyard to just up their game. You know, because you truly have not been judged on your food and your barbecue, your grilling, your smoking, until you've been judged by complete strangers that don't have to look you in the eye and see you the next day, your friends and your family. And people don't realize that. It's been
speaker-0: And when they don't know who you are, 'cause it's a blind judging competition. Yeah. So there there's no eye they don't have any clue who you are, and it's a lot easier to judge when that's the case. Yep. Do you find that when you do ask those of your friends and family, you get kind of different answers?
speaker-1: Yeah, sure is. Sure, they still. But I mean, I mean, hey, when's the last time one of your friends went, hey, yeah, John? So, ⁓ wait, too much smoke, too much, you know, you know what they just they're not going to be that honest with you. They're friends with you. You know, Johnny Trigg told ⁓ one of my mentors when he went to class, Johnny the great Johnny Trigg, the godfather of of barbecue, of competition barbecue. He said, you know, all your friends tell you that, you know, you need to go and open a restaurant because your food is the best barbecue they've ever had before in their lives. Yeah, well guess what? You know why they tell you that? It's free. And they didn't have to cook it. That's harsh. When's the last time your best friend and everything went, Yeah, man, dude, d this just this sucks. Yeah. People don't realize it. They don't think about it. And it's true. I've tasted food and had my friends taste it and they're like, ⁓ dude, that's like the best I've ever tasted. I'm thinking, dude, it's oversalted and I burned the bottom. I know, I've had your steak and it tastes pretty damn good. Yeah, that's because I hit it that day. It was really good. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, that steak was just outside of the top twenty. Now the top I came in like around eighteenth or nineteenth out of about a hundred and something that day. Nice. Yeah. That was a world championship where you get to taste my steak.
speaker-0: So how long have you when did you start doing the ⁓ your competition? How long have you actually been doing that?
speaker-1: This is my third year of competition. ⁓ I started with the SCA State Cookoff Association. and then quickly thereafter, Dirk Mullins and Jody Harris created the Rib Cookoff Association, where we just cook ribs ⁓ and do categories of ribs, ⁓ A and a B rib, baby backs, spare ribs, and that kind of thing. And now I'm currently now they added chicken wings as a points category along with ribs and they've added the category of stake this year. And Denton was the first
speaker-0: What is your so you and you have like a point system, don't you? And you're close to the top right now in the R C O A. So
speaker-1: I am I I am currently the points leader out of about I don't remember exactly how many, but there's over twenty that are in the top twenty ⁓ in points. And ⁓ I have taken two first place, second place, a third place, and a fifth place, and eighth place to put me at the points leader currently, which is a huge honor 'cause I'm here to tell you there are a lot of great state cooks out there that are better than me. But I've learned a lot from them.
speaker-0: Yeah, and in your last three competitions you've ⁓ made a lot first place in two of the last three, is that right?
speaker-1: I've made ⁓ yes, I made a first place in Jones, an eighth place in Blanchard. That was a big mistake, and I know exactly what I did, and I corrected it, and I took a first place two weeks later in Elk City, Oklahoma. So what do you get when you win first place? ⁓ you get ⁓ you know, like this little one up here, this leather bound award right here. Yeah, first place, ⁓
speaker-0: You say you know.
speaker-1: You get money. I've ⁓ got a good money out of it. And then you get, you know, you know, little things like this, you know, and stuff of that nature. So yeah, you get hardware and money. Right. And bragging rights and you get to, you know, try and be top man on the totem pole for a little bit until somebody knocks you down, I guess. I don't know. I've never I'm not very competitive. I show up because I really enjoy the environment. ⁓ Ribcoff Association, their motto is, you know, have fun. You know, it's cooks for cooks and it's going to a parking lot and hang out with your buddies and grilling and turning food in and then seeing, you know, who who did better than who, I guess. I mean, that's really all it is.
speaker-0: there on that ⁓ second one that you knew exactly what you did wrong. Now do you did you know what you did wrong during the cook? Is there a time to where when you're doing something you're like instantly like I I done messed up, but I'm gonna go through with it. ⁓ you you kind of feel something during the cook that you may have ⁓ felt you could have done differently. Yeah.
speaker-1: I knew exactly what I'd done wrong because I cooked. So a lot of times we'll prepare two steaks. ⁓ and that process alone is ⁓ so detailed. ⁓ but I did a ⁓ I I do a particular type of brining process with kosher salt. And ⁓ I did my process, but I was too heavy-handed on the kosher salt. And so the practice steak I cooked and cut and was serving around and it was too salty. And I was like, there's no way to unsalt these two pieces of meat. It's d I'm done. And so I was like, I just had to do the best I can. And so I ⁓ cooked the other one during the you know prepped prepped and cooked for the for the ⁓ judges and turned it in and hoped for the best. And out of all the cooks that cooked, I was still in the top ten. I was in eighth place, but it knocked me down probably three to four at least. Probably taught me it probably took me out of the top five, I would argue, I guess. You don't know. The judges, it's all subjective guys. They're not trained judges, which I love. Love untra I like you and Dolores, y'all can judge these competitions. Those are the kind of competitions I want to cook in.
speaker-0: Right, instead of the K C B S ⁓ certification that are that are told how to judge that they this is more opinionated. It's just the person off the street with their own exact opinion for sure. They're not trained or coerced or told anything like that, you know. This is how you budget your your competition. Now if there was there's ⁓ people listening here, if there was one or two techniques, is there anything you could give the listeners out there that could make them a better steak cook today? ⁓ what's one thing that you would say everybody, even me, myself, the lures all could do to up our game right now?
speaker-1: Give him some tips. Absolutely. ⁓ the the the the the first thing I would say is ⁓ the cut of meat. ⁓ get a thick cut. Whenever you're gonna get a steak, you need to get a thicker cut. And I'm talking between an inch and a quarter and an inch and a half. ⁓ that's or is it inch yeah, it's yeah, it's inch and a quarter to inch and inch and a half to inch and just over an inch and a half. But brining your steak with a little kosher salt for a couple hours prior, a little salt on both sides, and then flip it every thirty minutes. When it's time to cook your steak, take it out of the refrigerator and never put it back in the refrigerator. You want that steak to start coming up to not room temperature. Well, it might even go past room temperature, but you want it to get to around 80 to 85 degrees. ⁓ that's not necessary, but what it does is It allows you to better time your cook because I cook mine basically one minute and twenty seconds or one minute and twenty-five seconds twice on each side, adjusting and moving for the ⁓ the grilled rate marks that we make for competition steak. So bitter cut of steak a a thicker cut of steak, ⁓ and then the ⁓ the the salt ⁓ kosher salt brine light brining for two hours. And then know your temperatures and use a temperature probe to find out when your steak is at the right temperature for what you like. So a temp probe is paramount.
speaker-0: Excellent. Yeah, I gotta get a temp pro and and continuously moving it. I know someone, I can't I don't know, I don't think it was you, ⁓ maybe it was that told me that they have a ⁓ timer that just they set it for they said like two minutes and then when the two minute timer goes off, it's just can it just restarts automatically. So ⁓ whenever it they don't have to hit anything and it just kinda is on a recycle, they can set it to whatever time they want and then it instantly just keeps on doing. Do you do anything like that? I
speaker-1: wear a timer around my neck and ⁓ I have three sets of timers on this particular it's a thermal pro ⁓ or thermal works is a thermal works ⁓ thermal works ⁓ competition timer ⁓ it's like a stopwatch around your neck and I'll set it dependent on weather conditions I'll set it for anywhere from one fifth a minute fifteen to a minute twenty five and it's based on the temperature the humidity of the area where we are and also ⁓ I'll probe my steak to see where it is temperature wise when I begin my cook. And yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause all those things, you know, can can factor if it starts, you know, raining or gets too hot or cold, all that can affect ⁓ how you're gonna perform or what what you're gonna do, aren't isn't it?
speaker-1: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Now and one of the other techniques that ⁓ people need to use I would recommend using is shakarding your steak. for the most people, honestly just taking a fork and taking it and just using that fork, you know, to punch a bunch of holes in both sides and learn the anatomy of a ribeye. Learn what the spinalis is, what the longisimus is, and you know, what the ⁓ what's the other one called? There's another the trihart. Of a steak. It's three different muscles at one end. At the head of the cow. you have a bigger you have three pieces of meat. And as it goes towards the tail of the cow through the chuck and the ribeye, from the chuck to the ribeye to the back of the cow, you lose the third piece, which is the beef tenderloin that we all know, which is turning into flee mignon. That disappears. And you have two pieces of meat now on a ribeye. So the next time you're in the and you're in the grocery store and you're looking at meat, look at the ribeyes and You'll see that long spinalis part on the bottom that looks much more, you know, fat laden, right, with marbling. And then you'll see this big piece of meat, which is a longisimus, longisimus. I hate saying that word. ⁓ but there's longisimus, and then there's the triheart, which is right down here. And when the trihart is present, it's a circular piece of meat right between the spinalis and the longisimus up here. And what happens is it makes the spinalis, which is the cap. larger and it makes the longism smaller so it makes a better ribeye. That's the one you want. It's called the tryhard. Or at least that's what we call it. Butchers don't call it that. We call it a try heart. I learned that. Way.
speaker-0: Hard. I know this isn't ⁓ what you use in competition, but one of your favorite stakes, why don't you talk about that a minute, is also the terrace major. ⁓
speaker-1: The the the terrace major. ⁓ I wish I could speak French right now because I would be just doing you know. ⁓ the the the terrace major is by far the poor man's filet mignon. It is second to none. A cow has two of them, ⁓ and they're located real close to the flat iron, which is part of the chuck roll, which is on the front of the cow. Again, it doesn't do a lot of work, so ⁓ it's very, very beefy. And it's also known as the poor man's steak, ⁓ the poor man's tenderloin, it's a petite steak, it's the butcher's cut. ⁓ you don't see them a lot because there's just not a lot of them. It's a really small, about one pound, and it's a very cylindery kind of it think of a pork tinderloin, but on a cow. That's really what it is. And yes, I ⁓ I cook them several different ways. I just love to smoke them. I don't even see I just smoke ⁓ and and yeah, with seasonings on them, take ⁓ to about a one thirty four and then they will do what's known as a thermal ⁓ they'll they'll have thermal momentum and they'll just basically go a little bit longer and get about one thirty eight, one thirty nine, slice and serve. Yeah. And you can buy ⁓ in bulk from US chef stores. Yeah, we saw the when we went up there. Yeah, I know. He saw hasn't bought you a bag home yet. No, he hasn't. ⁓ All you do is I'm waiting. If you if you buy a bag of them, you'll get about twelve to fifteen in total. And out of that bag, when you trim silver skin, you will honestly get around a pound of waste, which means you have a hundred almost ninety ninety nine percent ⁓ you know, dollar for you know, dollar, you know, bang for your buck. And you'll have about twelve or fifteen that you can vacuum seal one or two, 'cause if it's a family of three, you know, you you can cook two of ⁓ at a time. They're fabulous. Highly recommend. Yeah. Once you
speaker-0: The reason I've held off at the moment is I gotta get it back. Well, I was waiting. I need to get a new vacuum sealer. So before I get ⁓ I didn't w I was like if we could ziplock ⁓ but I I just need to get a vacuum seal. That way when I get ⁓ we can do it right, have ⁓ sealed, throw ⁓ in the freezer. So I'm gonna be getting me a new sealer, and then once I get one, we'll definitely be made. Because you made a believer out of us because Greg here actually let us try one. Yeah. And ⁓ we we brought I brought it home and me and Dolores had it. ⁓ I marinated it for about I didn't know exactly how to cook it, but we marinated it for about thirty or forty five minutes in some marinade and went ahead and cooked that up and she thought it was fabulous. And she's not a big fan of ⁓ the what is it, the filet mignon. Is that the same? Yeah. I think she says it's too thick. Well or ⁓ or maybe it's the way I cook it, but that's her least.
speaker-1: I just don't like the way it tastes. You do not like the buttery consistency of it. There's something about it. I just don't like the way it tastes. It's like a slippery maybe. Cause 'cause the the thing about a Flemignon is that it is the most buttery piece of beef there is. It's it's just it's slippery. It's weird. We for my wife, Lori, ⁓ for our anniversary, maybe? Or her birthday for her birthday, I think. ⁓ for a birthday. ⁓ I made fleton and I did bacon wrapped and I seared both sides, took it to about a hundred and thirty-four, hundred and thirty-five, and let it cook to one thirty-nine thermal mo thermal momentum. I had forgotten how amazing the consistency is of the beef in a flet mignon. But I understand. Maybe terrorist means you like more. It's a little bit more consistent. Yeah, he ate it. He likes He likes it, but I just I don't know, there's something about it that just doesn't taste right to me. Maybe you're more of a sirloin gal. Maybe you like a a nice, you know, New York strip. I like it. How do you like your steak prepared as far as T bones? well hang on. Well, medium rare is wait so he like you like rare, John? He likes rare.
speaker-0: I can I can yeah, I can definitely do do rare. So yeah. One twenty five to w you know, what right around one twenty five to one thirty max, somewhere in there.
speaker-1: Sure. Hers you need to pull at one thirty five. Yeah. Your target temper Dolores is one thirty five.
speaker-0: Maybe I'll redo it and and
speaker-1: Yeah, no, no. You're you're right. One thirty five with a carryover to what one twenty eight, one thirty for you, but for her, you want one thirty five with a carryover to what one forty one, one forty two.
speaker-0: And it will be due. Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah. And don't please Okay, so Meathead Godwin, who is a meatologist person and ⁓ you know, he has a book out where he talks about doing the rest, you know, doing fifteen, twenty, thirty minute rest for your steak. No, you're just gonna be eating a cold steak. Okay. The rest period is when you bring it in and you start plating up and doing your sides and prepping to get to the table to cut and serve and eat. So don't add in a ten minute window where you're just you're gonna be eating cold steak. It's not worth it.
speaker-0: Use the rest time wisely by prepping and plating and w whatever else you need to finalize. Yes. So that by the time you're ready to eat it's just it's ready to go. Absolutely.
speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. There's no need, guys. There's no need to eat cold steak. You paid a lot of money for it. Enjoy it. It's is it gonna lose any any more liquid than it already has or whatever? No. It really isn't. Yeah. See, what if I ate mine cooked? Yeah, eat your cooked. Yeah. Well, you know, no, medium medium to medium rare is fine. I mean that's that's why we pull it one thirty four, one thirty five. is because we're we're we're looking for that just barely inside of what's considered medium. Yeah. You know, 'cause one thirty yeah, one thirty eight to one forty five I think is medium, isn't it? Something like that? Or one forty five to one fifty or something.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think what you get almost to one forty five, one fifty, aren't you almost well done at that point or is it a little higher than that?
speaker-1: No, I think it's higher than that. I don't know. There's there's a thing on the there's a magnet on the says something. I always forget. I
speaker-0: back ⁓ to the ⁓ competition. A lot of people think, you know, do you make your own seasonings, your own sauces and everything, you know, ⁓ that goes is it a a a chore on any of that? Not at all.
speaker-1: We don't we don't we don't make our own seasonings. There are guys that do. I'm not gonna say there aren't, 'cause there are plenty that do. I mean, obviously Heath Riles was doing something at some point. but no, typically the seasons I use are a combination of seasons that exist already. And some of them are ones that are my are my sponsors and those sponsors I use their rubs, ⁓ you know.
speaker-0: Yeah, I just wanted to get into that too. ⁓ so you you've been doing this and you have developed some sponsors that you want to go over some of those? Yeah.
speaker-1: No, thank you. Thank you for asking about my sponsors. ⁓ so yeah, my sponsors, ⁓ starting with my first sponsor ever was Champion Barbecue Champion Barbecue Supply of Oklahoma City. ⁓ there's one in Amarill, and there's one in ⁓ the Oklahoma City one. And ⁓ they're all things barbecue, of course. You've been there, John. We've done a live from there, which is it's a lot of fun going and test rubs before you buy them. ⁓ Tennessee Cooking Wood.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: has taken me on as a sponsor. I'm super excited because they make great, they produce the most wonderful wood that is the exact right percentage of moisture for smoking. Perfect for smoking, clean wood comes out of ⁓ Leapers Holler in ⁓ Tennessee. So it's kind of cool. ⁓ they're they're a great company. ⁓ the good charcoal company just picked me up. ⁓ so they're my fuel sponsor. I use their lump charcoal and I use their ⁓ briquettes and they use a they source what's known the wood is called ⁓ acacia wood from Nambia, South Africa. And the cool thing is that it's fully s ⁓ environmentally friendly because they're clearing off groundbrush so that cheetahs and other wildlife can track their game and stay alive. And I'm all for cats taking down big game. And ⁓ 'cause it's about the kitties and I'm a cat person. Dolores knows that because I follow her and her white cat. And as a matter of fact, he's right there.
speaker-2: There he is.
speaker-1: So yeah.
speaker-0: That's ⁓ the ⁓ that's that's the mascot of the podcast, that cat.
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, exactly. And ⁓ so yeah, and then ⁓ Bobby Oliver, beep ⁓ Bobby Oliver, Bobby Oliver, Twisted Oliver Seasoning. ⁓ I'm an ambassador for his product, BPOS and Inspector's Choice, ⁓ barbecue sauces out of Lubbock, Texas. So yeah. They're great. Anyways, I greatly appreciate them too, because truly I am just new into barbecue and they took a chance and everything in sponsoring me.
speaker-0: So yeah, thanks for asking. Excellent. Yep. Yep. Excellent. Excellent products. Glad ⁓ glad you got some great sponsors there and ⁓ that support you during the journey for sure. Yeah, it helps you out.
speaker-1: Yes. Makes a difference. It's a validation thing too, it really is. It's a validation of all of your efforts.
speaker-0: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And when is you you got some upti upcoming competitions here soon? ⁓ anything? How often do you do these?
speaker-1: ⁓ you can have one to three a month. In MDM three. And if yeah, and if you're chasing points, ⁓ so we call it chasing points. ⁓ I'm in the top ten obviously. I'm first place and I'm gonna try and stay there as much as possible. And so the next one is in Larnad, Kansas on the twenty fifth of July. I might go this weekend and do a rib competition with no steak category, but I might just go cook some ribs with some friends of mine.
speaker-0: Well me.
speaker-1: For the fun of it on July fourth. Although I do have a Weber twenty two kettle that I just built that is American that I need to maybe cook on that too. I don't know. I saw that. I mean it's it's it's awesome, but Dolores, I don't know what to do with it. I really don't. I I already have two Weber twenty twos and a Weber eighteen. Yeah. Apparently not. You know what I'm yeah, I was thought about, you know, maybe raffle it off and make some money. I don't know.
speaker-2: Did you see it?
speaker-0: Can't have too many.
speaker-1: The capitalist in me. Right? I figured ten dollars a hole, you know, thirty holes or something. I don't think people go for that?
speaker-0: Yeah. He thinks they'd be on board. Yep.
speaker-1: I'll put ten. There you go, see. Huh? Ooh, if I ooh, if I get enough money, if I c if I could actually generate enough money, I was thinking that the next one of the grills I've been looking at is the new hasty bake ranger that has pinwheels instead of the current system on the current ventilation system. So yeah. I don't know.
speaker-0: Already got an entry.
speaker-1: You know how it is, John. We have one grill and we want more.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You'll always have one you prefer, ⁓ you know, most of the time, or maybe depending on what you cook, which also brings me, is there a particular what do you normally cook your steaks on? Do you want to go into any of that?
speaker-1: Yeah, no, absolutely. ⁓ all of my steak competition ⁓ no, I can't say that. My steak competitions, I typically use a hasty bake ranger set up with ⁓ grill grates, which are a brand of aluminum extruded plates that we use to cook on for to make our ⁓ make those grill marks.
speaker-0: Yeah. You can r lower and raise that to kind of get right where you want it to get the exact sear you want to ⁓ on the firebox.
speaker-1: Yeah, the the the fire box actually has is on an elevator so you can pull it up and down to bring that hot you bring that temperature up because my grill grates, ⁓ I use an IR gun to ⁓ judge heat, you know, and I will be between five eighty five and six fifteen, five hundred and eighty five and six hundred and fifteen degrees when I go to put that steak on.
speaker-0: Five eighty five to six fifteen. Yeah. That's
speaker-1: Yep. With charcoal is
speaker-0: Is that what you recommend ⁓ most people do? ⁓ cook ⁓ up that high?
speaker-1: I recommend you cook around five hundred over five hundred and fifty degrees. ⁓ and then w okay, here's here's something that people don't realize. You don't get so so the effect of the crust that you get from cooking at high temperature, ⁓ you people think that it needs to be moist to do that. And that's the absolute opposite of what it truly needs to be. To get them what's called the mallard effect, which is that crust that we all like on a steak. That mallard effect only takes place with the absence of liquid, the absence of moisture. So you don't want to, you know, take oil and put it on there and then drop your steak. You want to put it on a dry heat, a dry heated surface, i.e. a cast iron skillet.
speaker-0: You were making me think right then of ⁓ something else totally off stake, smashed burgers. And ⁓ you want that it's the same you put it on a cast iron skillet, you don't want no oil, you wanna smash it, and if you do it right, you wanna build when you lift it, you don't have to worry about anything in between the smasher or the s or the meat because it's stuck. It's stuck to it. It'll pull up and then you wanna get under it to get the crust and that crust is the flavor, that crust is the good stuff. And that would be the same way you'd want to do your steak in as in essence. Is that is that pretty accurate? Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, exactly, because the mallard effect basically the the steak adheres to the pan because the pan is hot and the meat is cold. However, when the steak when whenever the meat starts to reach the same temperature as the actual surface it's on, it will neutralize and it'll release. And when it releases, then you pull it and then you will have that crust that you like and not leave.
speaker-0: So you kinda want it to release on its own.
speaker-1: Yeah, you want to release on your own. Think about ⁓ pancakes, right? When you see the little bubbles, right, on top of the pancake mix, you know that it's starting to basically release itself from
speaker-0: Pan. See in ⁓ the bubbles.
speaker-1: Bubbles tell us. In steak it doesn't do that, but you just time it right and you just check it by kind of popping on the edges a little bit.
speaker-0: Yeah, and that's another thing about Greg here is you're kind of a teacher at heart, aren't you? Absolutely. And and everything when when everything that ⁓ he is speaking, it's kind of like in an educ educational style. ⁓ because and that's what's great about podcasts or whatever you're doing is to give someone some value, make them learn something else. ⁓ you go into a lot of history and science into into your cooking as to the where and why. ⁓ something is affected and and that kind of thing. And I think that's really cool.
speaker-1: Yeah, no, I'm I I am an educator and because I'm an educator, everything I I just want people to have the best experience they can in the backyard, and if I can help contribute to that, I I find that just fabulous and and fun. You know. And I've had a lot of people say, Thank you for just helping me, you know, learn more about it and not criticizing me for the way I do it. It's like, no, there's more than one way to get good food on the plate from the grill.
speaker-0: Yeah, you were mentioning wings. Is that something you you say you wanted to kinda get more into, is the wing competition? So
speaker-1: ⁓ two years ago, ⁓ at the World Championship, I took fifth place in wings. And ⁓ I've had a love hate relationship with the little turds ever since. But yeah, I ⁓ I like cooking wings. I never ate wings before I got into backyard barbecue. Do you do like the whole wing? Or just or do you like what is it? Like the the drum and the flat. Yeah, we buy it. We yeah, well, we buy them with a wing tip. ⁓ and the drummy all attached. Okay and we'll we'll separ well yeah we'll butcher ⁓ ourselves. But ⁓ in competition we turn in w wings what's called flaps and drums.
speaker-0: You do that's what I was gonna say. Do you do flats and dramats or you both of them? You do five five of each one?
speaker-1: Five. Type it. And of course, to my consternation, because honestly, flats are beautiful and they eat great. Why do we need those little drum drumettes? They're just ⁓ you look like a rabbit or something. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, I know. So I I learned how to cook those and I do love cooking them. And the best way to cook them, of course, John, I've told you, is the Vortex on a Weber twenty two. Can't beat it. Or you can z ⁓ well on a pellet grill you do zero to four hundred. I've done the zero four zero to four hundred several have you done that?
speaker-0: Absolutely. I learned that from a buddy of mine that's ⁓ that I learned ⁓ that I follow and and he showed that and it was zero to four hundred. He puts everything on those things ⁓ before he turns it on. ⁓ I I don't know exactly, but like forty five minutes, say. Yeah, and it works. And you're good. And you might flip ⁓ part of the way through.
speaker-1: Flip ⁓ about once, yes sir. Same thing. You got that pit boss, I got that camp chef. Yeah, I do it on my camp chef all the time.
speaker-0: Yeah, it it's it's it's like magic. Someone else ⁓ that ⁓ that I follow that that does cooks, I don't think he does competition. He swears by ⁓ chicken wings or chickens is boiling hot water and pouring it on the skin and that causes it to tighten up before you cook it too crisp. But have you ever done any of that or ⁓ would you try that?
speaker-1: So actually when I took fifth place in wings and ⁓ in at the World Championship, ⁓ I boiled them for seven minutes prior to doing anything else. After they were boiled seven minutes, which by the way, the boiling process, it gets it hot enough to basically render out the fat in the skin. That's what you're doing. You're drying the skin out. And then I injected them. Yes, we inject wings, we inject everything other than steak. Steak's different. ⁓ I injected them before I cooked them.
speaker-0: So everything. Even the wings you inject, those little guys.
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. Wings and drumets we inject the heck out of them too. Think about taking a bite.
speaker-0: Put it in there till no ⁓ till it just comes out. How much
speaker-1: Well we just we just we just y we just pump a little bit into each each piece of there's two pieces of meat on a wing and there's ⁓ on a on a flat and there's ⁓ three little pieces of meat on a drumette and you just basically get a little shot into each.
speaker-0: A flavor and make them a little juicy.
speaker-1: Yep, little flavor. white pepper works great inside of meat for a little beat, a little h a little heat.
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. You say black pepper? No. ⁓ white pepper. Yeah. White pepper.
speaker-1: White pepper. Much more intense flavor. I'll have to try that. It's fun. Yeah, just put a little like like even if even if you just put a little rub on if you just put a little sprinkle really high up of white pepper on whatever you're cooking, with whatever rub you use, add a little white pepper to it. ⁓ yeah. It it it very intense. I use it in Texas a lot.
speaker-0: I think we got some. Give that a try. And do you also do a little that little salt brine on those wings first, you know, an hour, two hours?
speaker-1: ⁓ I don't do them. I usually like to leave them out ⁓ for a couple of days prior to competition. I'll leave in the refrigerator for like three days. Because what do refrigerators do but basically wick moisture out of the chamber? That's all you know how air conditioning works, right? Our our refrigerators work. Yeah, so all it's doing is drying that stuff out. Think about when you leave something uncovered in a refrigerator and you're like, ooh. Right? And that's all you're doing.
speaker-0: You like to dry ⁓ out, sir. Yeah.
speaker-1: is using it to you know, to dry stuff out. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yep. Yeah. And then I hear a lot of people say that or they put their chicken out the night before, whatever, just in the fridge to kinda dry it out.
speaker-1: Yeah, that's ⁓ yeah, you're just using that refrigerator for doing doing what it does best and that's drive stuff out.
speaker-0: And what else do you ⁓ is that pretty much ⁓ you do wing or not wings, ⁓ rib competition. You do enter some ribs as well, don't you? Yeah, I
speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I I I am a rib competition cook. ⁓ I'm basically doing a little bit less this year when it comes to that, as far as every category, every time, two ribs, three ribs. I'm not doing that. I'm just doing singular and I'm focusing on steak right now because of my position. but no, I love I love cooking spare ribs and I I toil and suffer at doing baby back ribs, but
speaker-0: It works out. What's what's what's so ⁓ bad about baby back ribs?
speaker-1: They're just so annoying because they don't just lay there like they're supposed to. You know, they they're all curled up and I've cut I've actually taken to a butcher and you know you know that curvature, you know, that that that curve that they have, you know, like that? I've had ⁓ actually cut part of it off to make them actually lay flatter. So and they're not as meaty. They're they're tender and all, and we do amazing things. Yeah. We do but we we do amazing things with ⁓ and they are delicious. But they're only more popular than spare ribs because of outback steakhouse. I want my baby back baby back ribs. Yeah. Yeah. Spare road is keen. ⁓
speaker-0: And you can enter can you enter any ribs you want, or is it pretty much I tell you baby backs, I tell you spare?
speaker-1: Yeah, you'll have cat yeah, you'll have a you'll have a spare category and a baby bat car category, or you'll have a double spare, or you'll have a spare and a double baby, or you'll have the the the most one of the most fun things to do is have two spare categories, one wet, one dry. One wet, one dry, which means no sauce on one of them. Yeah. They call it no sauce, I guess. They call it no sauce. So one one sauce, one no sauce.
speaker-0: Wet one dry. One messy, one not messy, really. Pretty much. But the sau the sauce is ⁓ it i it's kinda all messy, you know. And you're the home cook, you don't always c sauce ⁓ up quite like that as ⁓ you're doing in competitions. But I mean you've got to get that sauce all over ⁓ make ⁓ look all pretty and everything else like that. So
speaker-1: Like little mahogany ⁓ sticks or something, yeah. the the thing about it too is that I never I never ate sauce on my ribs until I got into backyard barbecue because honestly from coming from Texas, we don't do sauce on ribs, brisket, anything. You know, it's on the table, we just don't use it that much. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah, and a and for me we usually just well would add a little bit on your plate and you can dip the brisket or you can dip the ribs. You know.
speaker-1: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-0: Well it it you allow like Dolores over here, she does a lot of low carb and keto, so she can choose the sauce she wants. I can choose the sauce I want and
speaker-1: Normally I don't put any sauce on it. I just eat it. Yeah, yeah. If there's enough smoke on it and all that, I mean y you've got plenty of flavor the way it is. You know. Yeah. I was just at a barbecue ⁓ joint. I stopped at a barbecue joint in Noble, Oklahoma, ⁓ the other day just to try their ribs and brisket. And they made their brisket and it was really smoky and it was great with their barbecue sauce on it. It was good by itself, but They actually put no seasoning on their brisket. And I was like, That's different. It works, but it was different.
speaker-0: So it's pretty much strictly the s the smoke and the sauce then, huh? Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-1: It's it's because the pit is because the owner, the pit master, that's how he likes brisket. With no seasoning whatsoever on it. That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard of. But it was good. I got no complaints.
speaker-0: Yeah, we talk about seasoning and ⁓ you know, what you season it with and sauce it with. But one ⁓ I don't know, controversial or occasional people are for or against a binder. Do you use binder on on your ribs of any sort? Do you add mustard, wash your shirt sauce, just let it sweat?
speaker-1: ⁓ after after you inject, ⁓ and then you're basically using paper towels to kind of dry it off a little bit because the injection is everywhere in the pan. ⁓ I don't use a binder on my ribs. If they're s if I pull them out and if I'm cooking at home and I'm cooking a rack of ribs and I feel like they're a little dry, sure. I'll slather them with little mustard. Yeah. ⁓ my ⁓
speaker-0: It might affect your ⁓ smoke ring. Is you think there's any truth to that?
speaker-1: No, I d I don't I really don't subscribe to that belief. ⁓ because it's just vinegar. I mean it's really that's all it is, right? Vinegar and water. The water's gonna evaporate. The vinegar is just gonna stay behind. There's little bit of a flavoring, but you're not gonna taste it if your rubs are, you know, on there. ⁓ my brisket Yeah, my brisket, I ⁓ cut a little bit of pickle juice with mustard for a binder if I need it, you know, but I don't always use it. Just depends on how wet the meat is.
speaker-0: Heck yeah, 'cause if as long as it sticks to it, that's really all that matters.
speaker-1: Yeah, that that's all you're doing, guys. You're just basically sticking the rubs to it until it gets to the fire. And water does that just fine. Take your hand, you know, get a little water in your hand and just slather it around on the meat. You know? Yeah. People get very elaborate when it comes to binders and stuff and people want to complicate it. And barbecue, grilling barbecue, grilling and barbecuing is you know, you you talked about how to do history. And the fact that as a historian, you know, I look at the history of barbecue and it is truly the first American fusion cuisine that involves Native Americans, you know, the indigenous peoples, ⁓ the s the the the ⁓ African Americans that were enslaved during the, you know, ⁓ that the you know pre-Civil War antebellum period and post antebellum, honestly, they Some of the first jobs that they ever did was cook barbecue for the people that were their former masters. And ⁓ the Scottish influence, the Jewish influence, the European influence, all of it melded together, gave us the first American fusion cuisine, which is barbecue.
speaker-0: That's awesome. Yeah, it all basically came through history. Yeah.
speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, just yeah. People been cooking with fire for thousands of years. Your buff your your big green egg. The history of your big green egg, the ceramic cooker, the kamado as the actual term is, you know, is i is is thousands of years old. Tandouris from Turkey. ⁓ no India, excuse me, India, not Turkey or Turkey or whatever they're calling themselves now.
speaker-0: Also, yeah, we talk ⁓ a little coffee here and there. Tell the story about the where the Americano came from. ⁓ Wow.
speaker-1: ⁓ the story of the Americano. Yeah. Okay, that's a fun one. Yeah. So one of the first things whenever I was hanging out with John on his breakfast mornings, ⁓ I'm trying to spur on conversation and stuff as I do in the chat windows. The chat window. ⁓ I asked about the history of the Americano, knowing full well that I knew the story. ⁓ the legend goes that American Allied forces that were in Italy were exposed to a way of brewing coffee that we had never seen before. We drank coffee in America, and that's a whole nother story that involves the revolution. However, the the American soldier is over there and at that time, if you wanted a coffee in Italy, say you're in Rome, you would go up to a a ⁓ cafe vendor and he would have a cart, like a push cart, like you think a hot dog cart in New York City. Well he would go up to this cart And they would take a small little cup that looked like a little coffee cup with a little bitty finger handle on on the side of it called a demitas. And they would take that demitas and they would spray hot steam into it to clean it. And then they would basically do a draw, right? Or do a pull, right? A pull of an espresso. Then you would drink the espresso and you would give the demitas back to the individual, and then he would clean it and then serve it to the next. Guest. This is how they drank coffee. Well, Americans come along and you give them this little cup with this little bit of coffee in it, and they're like, I've been ripped off. I need more. Well, the Italians got smart and went, okay, fine. They got a bigger cup, put two shots of espresso in it, put a bunch of hot water on top of it, and went, here. The Americana was born. And they named it the Americano. It's a slight against us. We take perfectly fine good espresso and destroy it with hot water.
speaker-0: We c yeah, we water ours down a little bit. Yep. Yeah. Yep. ⁓ but it it is also what I do drink regularly, so that's that's where he gave me the lesson on that too. So I I I enjoy
speaker-1: A good Americano, but I usually do a dopio Americano. I like a double shot in mine.
speaker-0: The double shot's good. Strengthen it up. Mm-hmm.
speaker-1: Double shot Americano. And and just real quick, truly, the backstory as we come up on the 250th anniversary of America, the backstory of coffee in America. ⁓ and and these are told tales and legends, and we have documentation of ⁓ first ⁓ of of people ⁓ during the revolutionary period that did this. And this was ⁓ coffee, the introduction to coffee to ⁓ the colonists and everything was honestly driven by the women. Of the colony of the revolution, the Patriots, actually, the Patriot women. ⁓ little known fact. Women would have tea socials. We are the the 13 colonies were all separate, but they all were English colonies. So they all drank tea, i.e., the big party in Boston Harbor. Right? You know, party. Anyways, they their silent protest against the crown. was they had discovered this new thing from the new world, South America, that was called coffee. So instead of having tea social gatherings, they had coffee gatherings and they started serving coffee instead of tea. And this was a protest by the patriot women of America during the colonial during during the colon colonial times.
speaker-0: How they switch from tea to coffee. Yeah.
speaker-1: And we became coffee drinkers because we associated tea with England, who we had just kicked off the continent. Shout out to my boy General Nathaniel Green. I'm just saying Yorktown. Yeah.
speaker-0: Right on. Right on.
speaker-1: I got an I got I got a General Washington's favorite general, the man who was pegged to be the next ⁓ commander of the colonial of the ⁓ continental army if if ⁓ President Washington General Washington went down in battle.
speaker-0: Well, I mean we've had a great, great time with you on here. Where can people find you? If they what what what what would you like someone to do ⁓ right now? Is there any particular place? I know you're on ⁓ you do you're on the TikTok. ⁓ do you have ⁓ anything you'd like to put out there?
speaker-1: No, no, absolutely. Yeah, thank you. No, I I am Sun's Backyard Barbecue on pretty much all the platforms. I don't really do Insta that much or X. ⁓ I am truly on TikTok the most, but I also love being on Facebook and I'm trying to branch out with John's help, Okie smoking here, ⁓ to YouTube to do more longer content.
speaker-0: Yeah. And we'd like I'm gonna ⁓ get s ⁓ like to get up with maybe get some lives and get some content with you over there as well. And be sure and I'll put all the links to everything, it'll be in the show notes of this episode. So if you wanna just email those, make sure we got all those accurate and everything, and you people can go down there and go ahead and look you up. And be sure and check him out, follow him, competition ⁓ guru in here.
speaker-1: Yeah, thanks. Appreciate it.
speaker-0: How ⁓ so how many competitions would you say you've done so far if you were to count ⁓ all? Do you have any ideal? ⁓
speaker-1: Somewhere around I mean, probably about anywhere from twelve a year to about fifteen a year, and I've done about six, seven this year. So roughly close to maybe about forty five, fifty. I I'm very young into this. Yeah, very young into this. Very, very new to this.
speaker-0: 'Cause there's people you're going up against that's in the hundreds or even probably thousands.
speaker-1: Absolutely. Absolutely. I I am Yeah, I'm surrounded by amazing competition cooks and I'm learning so much and I'm so grateful for it.
speaker-0: I am surrounded by lions. That's a absolutely sounds awesome. Anything else you'd like to ⁓ shout out? ⁓ go ahead and mention ⁓ out there you miss anything?
speaker-1: You know what my my biggest thing is, John, when people get on my TikTok, ask me questions. Keep me talking and and answering questions. Cause I love talking and and just talking about what we do and why we do it. Thank you for listening to the Okie Smoking Podcast. Episodes drop every Monday. Don't forget to follow this podcast, or you might miss out on some delicious creations. You can also find us on our website, OkieSmoking.com, and on YouTube and other social media platforms. Until next time, keep firing up that grill.
