American Idol Drummer RJ Kelly: Every Gig Is an Audition | Ep. 19

RJ Kelly: if you're playing, you know, a Latin song and you playing hip hop trap, you know, type pattern on a hi-hat, it's just like, we know what I'm saying? Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, what's going on?
RJ Kelly: just just just because, you know, you felt in a moment. this would probably be cool here. That's selfish. That's that's real selfish.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mmm. You g ask
RJ Kelly: I'm
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: whatever you want. What's up, man?
RJ Kelly: Why does it like and can I can I can I cuss at all?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: You can do whatever you want here. It's literally whatever you want, whatever you're comfortable with.
RJ Kelly: Okay, I just wanna I just I I just wanna make sure 'cause sometimes, you know, every once in a while it'll just just pop out, you know what I'm saying? But all right, yeah, go ahead.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: You'll be good to Here it's off script. Maybe you can do whatever you want, say whatever you want, whatever you're comfortable
RJ Kelly: Man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: with, man. This this platform is for people like yourself.
RJ Kelly: Look, man, glad to be here, man. I've been seeing a lot of your episodes, man, and it's it's it's it's really cool what you're doing, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Thank you. It's fun. It's it's cool to talk with my friends and get to see experiences and also to hear stories that I don't even know that, you know what I mean? Like we get to talk it frequently, but it's always like, what you've been up to, but we never get the the BTS of what's going on. So it's super fun.
RJ Kelly: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Where are you at in the world, RJ?
RJ Kelly: I am in Los Angeles, California.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Then this is home for you now.
RJ Kelly: this is home. Yep. This has been home for since like two thousand nine.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay, where are you originally from again?
RJ Kelly: Kansas City, Missouri. Kansas City, Missouri, man. Yep. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Kansas City. And then when'd you get out to you got out here in two thousand nine you said?
RJ Kelly: Yeah, got out here 2009. yeah, like September 2009. Yeah, actually, yeah, we're in September now too. Yeah, so yeah, it's been a minute. It's been a minute. Yeah. Yeah,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow. It's coming up on your anniversary of being out here.
RJ Kelly: man. Yeah, dude. It's it's crazy, man. I I honestly I spent my adult years in LA. So I feel like, you know, I pretty much grew up out here. Like I mean, I grew up in Kansas City, went to school in Kansas City and, you know, was on the scene in Kansas City, whether it was church or, you know, doing like some of the some of the clubs or whatever. But like for real, for real, like really like came into my own out here though.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So why the swap though, if you were already on the scene kind of making a a name for yourself there, why why was LA the choice versus like a New York or a Nashville or or any other place?
RJ Kelly: So I I actually thought about that. I actually was like, you know, just trying to figure out I I just I knew that it wasn't Kansas City though. Like, just because of what I wanted to do. So, you know, I always wanted to be on TV. I always wanted to do sessions. And I I was I I did a few sessions back home as well, but I knew that I wanted to do like, you know, tours and television and you know, just all the the the big, you know, quote unquote bigger tight gigs. And I felt like, you I needed to be in like a bigger city to do that. and so the first first time I was like, you know, maybe Nashville. I was gonna go to school there. Right after high school, I was gonna go to Belmont. and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: School.
RJ Kelly: yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna go there. And I actually I don't remember exactly why that didn't work out. Besides I just was like I wanted to like just hit the ground running. And I I felt like at the time that, you know, they would be teaching me things that I either already knew or things that I didn't feel like I needed at that time.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay, got you.
RJ Kelly: Yeah, and then I I thought about, you know, New York. actually did, you know, an audition in New York before I moved to to LA. I did a aud an audition like a couple of years before. and actually man, you remember that show Making His Band?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yeah, sir.
RJ Kelly: Yeah, dog. So yeah, I I I I I did that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Fire.
RJ Kelly: and you know, I mean I I didn't I didn't make it to like the the the final thing or whatever, but made it through a couple steps or whatever. But that was that was all in New York. My first time going to New York was for that. and got to you know, just kind of see how, you know, it would be moving around there 'cause I got out there and I was staying in like I was staying in Jersey. And then I had to figure out, you know, the the train system to get to the audition, make sure I was there on time. Had to take a train, take a bus, take another train, figure out. And I had never done any of that before. So I'm like, okay, this this could be something. and and you know, it then and then I was like, you know, I had I have a I had a couple friends that I gig with in Kansas City. that had already moved to LA. And so, you know, he was like, yo, won't you, you know, come visit LA, you know, see what, see what you think, you know, see what it's like, all that kind of stuff or whatever. And we were already doing gigs in Kansas City or whatever. So I'm like, all right, cool, let's let's try it. I move out there, well, sorry, not move out there. I go out there to visit and like even on the still on the plane as we're you know coming into the airport, I'm like, this is it. And it was
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: This is it. Wow.
RJ Kelly: it was it was just that feeling of like, man, this is different. This is a way bigger city, but I'm like, I think I think this is it. And I felt that before we even landed. and this is just off the first visit. And then
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know got there, met, you know, a couple people and it was just, you know, it ended up being a a pretty cool experienced and then, you know, came back to Kansas City, drugged my feet a little bit 'cause it was, you know, such a big move. And so, you know, I was just like I I I was real good with coming up with excuses of why it's not yet time. You know what I'm saying? Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: okay.
RJ Kelly: yeah, 'cause it was 'cause it was just like I mean, I didn't I didn't realize it for real, for real, but I was kind of nervous about the move and like, you know, moving to a bigger city and having to start over and meet new people and Get into these different circles and, you know, all this kind of stuff or whatever.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: but but I can honestly say, like at the time, it was just like, man, I gotta make sure I get a job and, you know, save up this amount of money. And, you know, what if I get out there and, you know, this ain't happening yet, or what if, you know, blah, blah, blah. Just all the all the thoughts or whatever.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: and then I I feel like it was maybe like a year later, year and a half later, some some something like that. I was just like, you know what? That's it. I had gotten fired from both of my jobs in Kansas City. Man, I was working at Best Buy. Yeah, and I I was working at Best Buy. Got fired from there. was working at the bank to save up, you know, got fired from there. And then it was just like, you know what? This ain't it. I gotta go.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: And so,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: So yeah, man. And so I packed my car up. My dad, you know, helped me drive out there. or out here rather. we did it
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: in twenty-four hours, man. Like we stopped maybe we stopped like one time overnight. And it wasn't even like a full overnight thing, 'cause I was like, yo, it's time, it's time to go. Like I I gotta go.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: And so I just wanted to help him get here. Ended up in North Hollywood, with a friend of mine, you know, so had a roommate and everything and Yeah, dog, and just kinda hit the ground running, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow. There's so much there. First, I want to go back to your choice of not going to school and your reasonings why. Cause that's a very interesting perspective. Of
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: a lot of people are going to have that conflicting thing. They're coming out of high school. They're like, okay, do I go to the big city? Do I just get straight in the workforce or do I go to school? You chose not to attend school because you felt as though you weren't going to get much out of it, right? You're saying, I think I know everything that they're going to do. So my First question is, do you still feel that way? Do you think if you went to school, you would be in the same place now? And then the second part of that would be any advice for someone who's choosing that? Because that's a very that's a very controversial topic, right?
RJ Kelly: Yeah, man. It is, it is, man. And I I can honestly say, going to school probably I I probably would have like benefited from come from from from going to school. just because, you know, like there there's a lot of things that I had to learn. Okay. Let me back up a bit. So I feel like school is important. Because there is, you know, a certain amount of of knowledge that you get in the classroom. But I also feel like just getting in the field is extremely important as well because there's so much that you get out of actually being, you know, in it.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: and and to and and to be honest with you, you know, if if you can figure out a way to, you know, marry the two. Like it's it's it's better, you know what mean? and what what what I didn't do, I was just like, you know what? I know how to play, I know how to hear, like I know, you know, how to, you know, talk to people or whatever. Like, I just need to get in the scene, you know what mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: but then later on in my career, I was like, man, I probably would have gotten a lot out of, you know, being in a classroom for, you know, like the the music theory, you know, part of things or even like just the the admin part of of, you know, what we do. You know what I mean? Like you know what
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. Yeah.
RJ Kelly: I'm saying? Like just just knowing how to I don't even like put a resume together or, you know, to put a a highlight reel together or to, you know, do invoices and you know, just like, you know, just like all all of those types
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: of things. And then even just, you know, also just the the the accountability of, you know, a teacher like grading you on things, you know, to make sure that you're, you know, steadily getting better, you know, with let's say, you know, reading music. That was something that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: I like I knew how to read music, but it was something that I needed to to touch up on. later on in my career because, you know, in my mind too, I was just like, the type of gig that I wanna do, I'm not gonna need to read music. Like it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: it's fine. I can just memorize it. You know what I'm saying? Like, which is what I had been
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: doing anyway. and then I also just felt like, you know, at that particular school, 'cause i I even thought about, you know, Berkeley as well, but like in my mind it was just like it was like jazz band type
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: yeah.
RJ Kelly: music. And but again, like I didn't I didn't really, you know, allow myself to, you know, to or I I I didn't let I didn't really allow myself to like be open minded enough to, you know, the possibility of it being more than just, you know, one type of music. because
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
RJ Kelly: I feel like I feel like there's so many people, like my network would be a little different had I went to to school and you know what I mean? 'Cause I
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: I f I feel like there's there's definitely, you know, some some there's some people that I know that, you know, went to school and they have so many friends like within the industry and they have so many connections and, you know, things like that that that they still use, you know, today. So I feel like it's it's both, man. Like I think I was just young. You know, I was just like I wanna just get to it and I felt like the best way to do that was to just start gigging, going to jam sessions
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: and, you know, literally like getting in front of people and like man, like I and I was going to everywhere. Like I was going to, you know, all kind of different jazz clubs, R and B clubs, like hip hop clubs. I was going to like everything, rock clubs, like just because I was just like, this is a new city. Don't nobody know who I am. Don't know if I know, you know, what I can do or anything like that. So I'm like, I guess I just gotta get in here. And,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know, so I I learned a lot of things the hard way because, you know, there was there's probably a a a better way to do it, but I also don't regret any of my journey though, because it literally made me who I am now. Like I feel like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know, even though I didn't go to college or I didn't go to school in in that way, I feel like I went to like school of hard knocks, which is I feel like, you know, that's a that's a thing too. You know what I mean? So,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Real too. Yeah.
RJ Kelly: yeah, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's a perfectly stated thing. I think you just gotta make a decision on what you want to do and how you want to go about it. But the journey that you chose still, you still gotta put the time in, and you you had to learn the lessons and X, Y, and Z once you got here. But my I got another question for you because there's a lot of people who will even let's say post-school, they're saying, Okay, where do I go next? And I oftentimes hear, I want to go to LA, I want the big gigs, I want X, Y, and Z, but then. For a person like yourself who had the same dreams, were you already was the work ethic already there when you were in Kansas and then you just transferred it to LA? Or did you have to learn how to get in the mix and kind of step outside the comfort zone to really get into the, you know, the working force? What what was that like for you?
RJ Kelly: So, okay, I'm gonna start at it's not Kansas, it's Kansas City on the Missouri side.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Kansas said, excuse me.
RJ Kelly: Yep. even though Kansas and Missouri, you know, is is is right there, but I I I couldn't let it go on like, you know, so yeah, back when I was back when I was in Kansas, you know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right. Ca c excuse excuse me.
RJ Kelly: yeah, yeah, yeah. But okay, so I felt like I had a good work ethic in Kansas City. for the level that I was on at the time. Again, now I can say that now in retrospect, but so in like back then, like I felt like, yeah, I I had great work ethic. Like I'm gonna learn the songs, I'm gonna be comfortable with it, like I'm gonna do what I gotta do, and I'll be ready for, you know, for the show. when I got to LA, I quickly learned that There's another level to this. And it was just like there there were songs that I just hadn't heard. There were songs I didn't know. And even in Kansas City, like what what also helped me was I used to do wedding bands and, you know, like different like corporate events and things like that. because, you know, like I I was able to learn so many songs and have to perform them all the time. You know what I mean? And I felt like it was in an environment where, you know, you didn't have to be perfect, but it was just like you're learning, you know, the vibe and learning how to perform and like, you know, all that kind of stuff or whatever. and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
RJ Kelly: I did that for for for a long time. Like it was it was a good time. Like it's it's fun and you know, you're it's you're you're having a good time, but you're also learning like literally, like, you know, all these different lessons and learning how to, you know, take cues from the from the from the MD or communicate with the rest of the people on stage and you know, all that kind of stuff or whatever. but yeah, when I when I got to LA like it was just a it was it was another level that I had to like step up into. and that's actually happened throughout my time in LA. Like I you know even though like I I had to learn certain songs from Going to the jam sessions, you know, out here and you know, it's like songs that are probably gonna get called that you should probably just know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: which that was kind of nerve-wracking, you know, as well, because I'm like, man, you know, if I I don't know who's in the room right now, I'm probably, you know, what if I mess up or I just play a groove differently than what's what what's on the record. But like this
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
RJ Kelly: groove that I'm doing, like, it still works, but It ain't what the record is. And what if somebody, you know, out here is like trying to, you know, find a drummer and they're like, man, he ain't played a record. You know what I'm saying? Or, you know,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow. Okay, yeah.
RJ Kelly: you you know what I'm saying? Like, so it was this it it was, you know, a lot to think about. but it was something that, you know, I had to decide, like, am I gonna step up to this or or am I not? You know what I'm saying? Like, if I'm
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: if I'm if I'm out here and this is what I want to do, like, Then this is what I gotta do. You know what I'm saying? So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: yeah, man, the the yes, I did have work ethic. but I'd learned that I I needed to step that work ethic up.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: For sure. I think you mentioned something
RJ Kelly: And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: yeah, go ahead.
RJ Kelly: no my my my bad. I I was gonna say and it's just like a a thing that really got me is that I wasn't the only one that moved to LA. Like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: everyone, every musician, drums, keys, bass, vocals, guitar, like every musician is thinking, I need to move to LA because I wanna do this, I wanna do that, and all that kind of stuff, whatever. So, and most of the time it's the musicians that were really good in the area that they came from and decided I need to come here. So everybody's good. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, you you you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
RJ Kelly: come out and you know, cause back back home, like But and actually, like, don't get me wrong, like hometown, lot of talented musicians as well. You know what I'm saying? Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, sure.
RJ Kelly: you know, it's it's it's a lot. But you know who's on the scene. You know what I'm saying? Like you know, you know, who's who's at, you know, these types of of gigs or who's you know, these other types of gigs or whatever. But in LA it's just like it it doesn't matter. Like every genre, every type of musician is here for the same thing. And they're trying to do all the same stuff. And so, you know, it's like you gotta be on top of your game. You know what I mean? And then sometimes it's like you can be on top of your game, but you don't know the right people.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm. We we'll definitely have to go there. Cause that that is a valuable thing
RJ Kelly: So Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: in this industry specifically. It's it's about who you know. But there's there's something you said I really want to ask you about because you you grazed over something that I think a lot of musicians miss. And it's the beginning phases in how you were approaching the opportunities when it wasn't the arena, when it wasn't the the TV shows, when you weren't doing American Night or when you weren't doing right.
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: It's when you were doing the wedding band stuff, you were thinking about the feel. You were thinking about the approach. You were thinking about the patterns. When you went to jams, you were like, dang, I'm I hope I know this song so I can approach it properly. That was always your mindset,
RJ Kelly: Right. Right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: right? So you're you're approaching every opportunity that you had to play as if it was the thing you were going to really try to go after. Do you think that played a
RJ Kelly: yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: ma a big role for you?
RJ Kelly: big role in like where I am now or
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, like in longevity, right? Because it
RJ Kelly: 100%. Yeah. Yeah it did. because Man. You can't you can't treat certain gigs like whatever. You know what I mean? Like, because if if you have that mindset going in, that's just how it's gonna come off. You know what I mean? Like you're you're you're gonna miss stuff. You're gonna like you're you're not taking it serious, you know what I mean? And to me, I'm just like, I felt like, especially like before I actually, you know, got to feel what that. you know, big stage felt like. I was like bringing like my full setup to like club joints and like, you know what I'm saying? And like bars and like, I'm imagining like I'm on this huge stage, you know what I'm saying? Like, even though, you know, it's it it could it could be 20 people out there dancing
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: or it could be 20 people out there sitting in their seat having dinner. You know what I'm saying? And I'm just like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know, trying to make sure that I'm on point. You know what I mean? Because it's it is a rep. Every time you get a chance to perform, like it is a rep. And so it's something that we talk about in my house now. so my son is in baseball, and you know, he can be silly sometimes, and it's like we we have to remind him, like, bruh. You have to take every rep serious because if you start taking these weird, you know, silly swings and you know, weird throws and all that kind of stuff or whatever, just because you want to be silly, you're training your body to do that. And it transfers,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know, when when it matters. And so it's just like we can be silly, but let's be silly in something else. You know what I'm saying? Like, because
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
RJ Kelly: you're you're training yourself. To be this way, whether you notice it or not, you're you're training yourself to be not on point. You're training yourself to just be lactatical, you know what I'm saying? And so,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know, I so yeah, so I I say all that to say, you know, I I treated, I I I did my best to treat every gig. I'm sure there was a few where, you know, I wouldn't fill on or whatever. I'm not gonna, you know, get up here and be like, no, every gig I ever did, you know what I'm saying? Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Still human, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
RJ Kelly: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, the the the goal is to, you know, to to treat it like this is an audition, basically. You know what I mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. I think that's a powerful tool, man. Cause you you have always had that, at least since I've met you, is that always
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: attention and detail. Even when I was sitting under your musical direction, it was, hey man, that's not the right pattern. The kick is in this place. Keys were in the wrong. It's like that attention and detail. And of course you were sitting in a seat that required that, but I could tell that wasn't that wasn't just because you were sitting in that seat. That's just who you are. You know, you you always were very
RJ Kelly: For sure. For sure.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: intuitive about music and how things were going about. So I would it's great to hear that that foundation was so early and you were always approaching it that way. The system just got refined as you kind of progressed
RJ Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: through the system.
RJ Kelly: man, yeah, man. And be and to be honest with you, like I it's funny that you say that that I'm like that and that's how, you know, I was, you know, even with you and and and I'm I'm gonna be honest with you. People that have been under me like if when when when I'm, you know, music director and whether I'm music director on stage or music director off stage, I have been told that I can be an asshole sometimes. So it's like but but
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Really?
RJ Kelly: but but it's because like the the the details matter and I I think that I think over time like when I think about it I had people like that with me like there were times
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: like starting from Kansas City man like there were people that I work with that you know I felt like yeah this this is the right groove Especially if it's an original song, I can do whatever I want to do. You know what I'm saying? But but it but it wasn't that. It was just like, you know, it it matters how you play the hi hat. It matters
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: the the the ghost notes if there should be any at all. You know what I'm saying? Like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: it it it all it all matters and something so slight can mess up the feel. You know what I'm saying? Like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Massively.
RJ Kelly: You know I'm saying? Like if something is supposed to be swung, why are you playing something straight? You know what I'm saying? Or vice versa. You know what I'm
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: saying? Like, or if if you're playing, you know, a Latin song and you playing a hip hop trap, you know, type pattern on a hi-hat, it's just like, where we at? You know what I'm saying? Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, what's going on?
RJ Kelly: just just just because, you know, you felt in a moment. Yeah, this would probably be cool here. That's selfish. That's that's real selfish.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mmm.
RJ Kelly: So, you know, but again, like I had people that were like that with me. Like every music director that I was under was hard on me. Like I I've and and there were times where I felt like, bruh, it is not that big a deal. Like, like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: chill, like re relax. But I think every single one of man, because they made me pay attention. even more than what I thought I did, you know what I'm saying, to to to what's going on and and then just how to serve the the the music and to serve the song and to make sure that you know you're having a conversation rather than a
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: yelling match. You know what I'm saying? Like, dude, I had
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: I had this this teacher back home man and it was Andy Ward like Everybody in Kennedy knows exactly who that is. But and and maybe, you know, other other other other people know who that everybody should know who Andy Ward is. But that dude, like by far, like everything that I learned up under him, like I still use to this day. And he he had this analogy of going to a party and going to like, you know, a potluck. Type get together. And your job was to bring the sweets. For example, let's say your job is the sweets. With a potluck, normally there's a list of things that is needed, and you know, everybody picks that thing. Or if you get somebody that's super organized, they're like, hey, I need you to bring this, I need you to bring like somebody's telling you exactly what they need. Okay, cool. So your job is to take the sweets, but then you decide while you're at the store, you know what? I'm gonna grab some chips. I'm gonna grab some more of these drinks. Yeah, they probably need a lot more drinks. Yeah, I'ma just go ahead and do that. That wasn't your job, but you're like, yeah, I'ma I'm gonna I'm gonna grab these drinks. man, they got this rotisserie chicken too. man, I'm definitely gonna grab that. And you just show up because you like, I'ma just, I I got everything. Like they gon' You know, be impressed with, you know, I'm I'm thinking about everybody. But then you get to the party now, now you're at the party, and there's too much of something. Because all you had to do was bring the sweets. It was already somebody's job to bring the main course. So they don't need that rotisserie chicken. It was already somebody's job to bring the drinks. So they don't, they don't need that. Extra ginger ale that you felt like, yeah, I think I I mean I like ginger ale, so I'm a I'ma I'ma bring this. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right.
RJ Kelly: like, so you know, you you gotta be aware of what's needed and do that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: and get there. And then just like a party, you know what I'm saying? Like you you get there, stuff starts running low, or you know, you start seeing, you know, like, man, we could probably use a little bit more of this. Okay, now you can adjust. Now you can be like, you know what? Here, let me go grab this or whatever. And then you can start adding. You know what I'm saying? But you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure, sure.
RJ Kelly: know what I mean? So he that that just stuck with me like for for years, man. Like, bring what you need first and then, you know, decide, okay, should I add this feel here? Should I like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: does does does this make sense? Do I need to put this little swell here? Do I need to do that? Do I need to add all these other things? You know what I mean? So Yeah man, that was I don't really know where I was going with that, but but but but but yeah. Yeah, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: It's a great analogy though because you really do serve. Yeah. I I think that was perfectly done. And I think that's another way for people to digest music because it is a conversation. It is about applying what's needed. And if everybody does what's needed, it typically gets the project to sound the best.
RJ Kelly: Bro, it it works. It works, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, that's that's great. I also need to go back to something because I need to clarify my really so it doesn't get clipped. I wasn't saying really as if RJ is an asshole. I was genuinely interested because I've actually never heard
RJ Kelly: You know what's funny? What was funny
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: that about you.
RJ Kelly: when so and I I mean I I don't I don't know if if you know it is said, you know, like broadly, but like I I feel the energy sometimes. Like I I feel like there's a couple musicians that's like, bruh, it don't matter. Like let's just, can we just play this? Like. If I if I if I wanna put this little, you know, this extra sound here, if I wanna put this extra feel here, or if I wanna put this chord here, or you know, if I add this little lick, like it's like, nah, bro, we still we we we in the first verse. We in the we we are
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right.
RJ Kelly: in the first verse, dog. Like it don't we don't even need that yet. We don't need that. You
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: know what I'm saying? First verse of the first song. We don't need everything.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: The show just started.
RJ Kelly: You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, like bro, we we we just now getting started. Like let us get in there. You know what I'm saying? Like before we just start
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: throwing a bunch of stuff in there. You know what I mean? Like and and a lot of it ti a lot of times, man, like it Man, now my mind is gone 'cause like there there's so much to that, but it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, go there.
RJ Kelly: it's just like The song needs to always sound like what the song is. So no matter what you add to it, it people should know like, this is the song we end. Because you gotta think too, man, like, you gotta consider your audience. If you are Playing with, you know, a major artist. forget that. If you're you're you're playing with an artist and they have fans, they know how that song goes. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: if you come in, first time this is being aired on TV or first time this is being heard live, they want to hear the song. You know what I'm saying? Now, it's gonna be live, so there's gonna be a know bigger energy to it. But like the groove needs to be the same.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: but like, you know, the the the cores need to be the same, the groove needs to be the same. the the overall energy of the song needs to still be what it is. And If you add, you know, a break here, a pause there, you know, a hit there, whatever, cool, as long as it doesn't take away from
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: what what it's supposed to feel like. You know what I'm saying? Like everything should enhance. Everything should should go up. You know what I mean? Like it should never feel like, man, what? What song is this? And then they start
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: singing the verse or start singing the chorus, like, that's what that song is. Like That's a problem. They
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: should've they should have knew what this song was when it started. You know what I'm saying? Like, so, yeah, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: No, that makes complete sense. And in and that definitely reflects with your playing. And that's definitely what something I want to talk about because to me, well, I I'm gonna say you're one of my favorite drummers and you're one of most musical directors favorites to call. And that's not an that's
RJ Kelly: man. Thank you, bro.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: not easy to no, it it's it's true. And it's it's it's evid eval evident, excuse me, in your resume, right? You've been able to play with the top artists. You've been able to play on award shows and TV all of the time. Right. And that means you've crossed genres at the highest level. That means you've come to a lot of the top musical directors and TV producers and all these types of things. They're now throwing your name out of who do we get to do this? RJ. I need somebody to cut this at the house who's going to give me clean files, clean stems, understand how things are going to go. Who do we call to do this perfectly? RJ. That's not easy to do, man.
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So first, your flowers need to go to you and respect to what you do. But that brings
RJ Kelly: Appreciate you, man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: me, of course, it brings me to my question of how does one go about doing that and meeting those types of people? And you mentioned the word earlier that I hope musicians digest is service. You
RJ Kelly: Mm-hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: serve the music, you're serving the musical director, you're serving the intentionality of what the artist's vision is. You're not imposing yourself into it until you figure out who brought what to the party, right? Until you figure
RJ Kelly: Right. Right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: out if I need to add this. How does someone do that, right? How does someone successfully be a valuable asset to multiple musical directors, award shows, being able to play a ton of genres? How what's what's the process like for someone like yourself of getting to this, this, this moment?
RJ Kelly: So I used to study, I mean I I still do, but I I used to study like concert DVDs back when they had DVDs. Damn it, I just aged myself.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: but I I used to study like concert DVDs and I used to look at the credits and I used to see like, you know. Who's playing this and you know, who arranged this and who did this and who did that or whatever. and so, you know, I I I always knew to a degree like who was doing what. and so when I moved to LA and I found out, you know, about these different spots and these different, you know, jam sessions or even just, you know, get togethers or whatever, I would try to just, you know, be there and You know, then you meet people and you network with those people, whatever. And man, this music industry is it's it's smaller than you think. But you start meeting people that know other people, that know other people, but because you know you're around and you're you're in these spaces, and then you I'm gonna take a pause real quick because there's something to knowing the people, right? There's something to going to going to these places and getting around where you know these people might see you. But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
RJ Kelly: something that somebody told me, man, is you gotta be cool too. Like you have to be just a cute a cool human being to be around. Because if you're great at what you do, but you suck as a person, you can meet all of the right people. You can meet all the right people, but then you rub them the wrong way and they never want to hire you. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: So, you know what I mean? Or, you know, you get hired on like special occasion, like if you ain't gotta be around nobody. You know what I'm saying? Like, which,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: okay.
RJ Kelly: you know what I'm saying? Like, like you don't You don't want that, you know what I mean? Like i i at least I wouldn't want that. But so I say that to say You gotta be cool. Like, so even going to these different people, whatever, like you gotta know how to hold a conversation. You know what I mean? Like you you you gotta know things about, you know, your crap and you gotta know how to, you know, talk about the history of certain things or talk about concerts or talk about, you know, the musicality and, you know, all these different things or whatever. But then you also gotta be able to talk about regular life stuff, like types of types of food or you know what type of you know activities you you I'm saying like little little things like that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: because what what what I learned real quick is that you know a lot a lot of people that I was trying to meet and get in front of or whatever, the last thing they wanted to hear was, man, dude, I you're great. Like you're this, you're that, you're that man. Like so so what did it feel like, you know, when you did this particular tour, like man, I was watching this DVD and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Ha ha.
RJ Kelly: man that that that solo you did, man, like what made you do that? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like Unless
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: it is a like unless it's an environment where it is a QA and I'm supposed to be asking you these questions, it's like some regular shit. You know what I'm saying? Like it's like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: yo, like what's what's going on? Like, you know, how you doing, blah, blah, blah. Like I'm from this place, you know, where you from? Like those type of things. And then if the vibe is cool, you get to, yeah, so how long you been out here, man? Like, what'd you come out here for? And it's natural, you know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, sure.
RJ Kelly: And and now it's organic. And now they're genuinely interested in, okay, like let me see what this dude is about. You know what I'm saying? Like, so this is kind of a long answer, but it's it's all necessary. You know what I mean? It's just like you gotta be cool and you gotta, you know, understand how to read a room and to even know if
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: I should approach this person right now. You know what I'm saying? Like, and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right.
RJ Kelly: is it is it the time to you know get in this person's face or whatever? Because sometimes it is. Sometimes it's like, okay, cool. Like it's the end of the gig, or you're on a break or whatever, and you see this person that you've been wanting to meet for a long time, get up, like, yo, I don't know, you know, I'm I'm going to bother you or whatever. I just want to introduce myself. I'm new to the town, and you know, blah blah blah. And most times they're cool, you know what I'm saying? Like they'll
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: dap you up, you know what I'm saying? Like, Have a quick little convo, and then be like, all right, cool. So yeah, like let's rap after the show. You know what I'm saying? Like, and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: then and and and then that happens, you know what I mean? Like, but or not but there there is that, but then there's also the times where you meet people based off of the other people that you've met. There's been a couple times that I've gotten just a cold email. Like, hey, I'm the music director for so and so, got your information from this person. We've never
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: met before, but because you've been, you know, a good person and because, you know, you know this other person, that person recommended you for something. And now
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you meet the you you you meet this person or whatever. And so so there's that too, which goes to just be just just be a a a a good person and a in a normal person. You know what I'm saying? Like just Be cool and, you know, treat everybody with, you know, respect and you know, and and it it it all it all kind of works together, you know what I mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. I I gotta add to this.
RJ Kelly: I hope that answered you.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: No, no, no. That was a that was a perfect explanation of any even with real life examples of how to have the conversation. And I think a lot of people
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: do miss that because you know, when you we typically know, right? If someone approaches us now, we know you want something, right? Some type of information, some resource you want to understand. We know, right? So it's not
RJ Kelly: For sure. For sure. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: taboo to to address the elephant in the room per se. However, Starting that way is not the best way to have that conversation with someone. It's start with the human standpoint first. Hey man, been a fan. If you want to start that way or great set, loves, you know, been a whatever. However, you want to start the the human standpoint. Cool. I'm new to the area. Y'all didn't want to interfere with anything. Great. That addresses the elephant in the room out the gate. And then we can start having the whole conversation. So your
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: examples are perfect. I think there's too many times where we do, especially on this platform, I hear from a lot of us when we're talking about be a good person. And I do hear to see the comments and be yeah, we know be a good person. Cool. So now I have to add this part about the playing because you aren't just a cool, reliable, dependable person. You are one of the best out there. Right. And and I could say it, your peers will say it, musical directors will say it, and your resume also says it. So when you're getting these cold emails, it's not just because you were a good person. It's also because when you did get the opportunity, gloves were on, game time. What are you seeing?
RJ Kelly: Yeah, you showed up. Yeah. You showed up.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, you you had to show up still. So when it comes down to the playing aspect, what would advice or if you have any advice from musicians on when it's time to show up, how do they show up? Right. Do they show up? On the showcase type of energy, or I gotta get all my licks off. Do they show up in the sense of serving them? Like what what advice would you say of how do you get to this RJ status of I got American Idol, I need somebody who can come in and knock this out?
RJ Kelly: So I I would say always bring your personality to an audition.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: in in in my experience They like nobody wants you to play exactly what is on the track or what is exactly, you know, already there. You know what I'm saying? Like, so while they they they want you to play the parts, of course, but they also want a little bit of personality, you know what I mean? Like, and again, like this
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sorry.
RJ Kelly: this it it it all depends on, you know, what what they ask for, but I would say like if if you're going to like an open call, you know, audition. And you're actually hearing and seeing what other people are doing, you know, as well. One, don't let that throw you off.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Hmm.
RJ Kelly: Like, like you, you will hear somebody do their audition, right? And they're doing their thing or whatever. And now you're thinking, like, damn, yeah, that was cool. You know what? I think I'm a I'm I'm gonna change this here, I'm gonna do this, cause now I gotta top that. And it's like, You don't have to do that. You know what I'm saying? Like you you don't have
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: to do that. Like prepare, you know, learn the music, you know, enough to where you're you're comfortable with being able to, you know, step outside of the groove and then come back to it. You know what I'm saying? But like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right.
RJ Kelly: all always bring your personality. Like it it it otherwise there's there's no point in calling this person or this person or that person. You know what I'm saying? Like all of that already exists. In the track. So I would say bring your personality and make sure that, you know, it's within the confines of the song and, you know, the situation. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sorry.
RJ Kelly: but I've I've I've learned that that always looks good to, you know, other MDs and you know, creative directors and and and things like that. so yeah, so that's that's for stars. Prepare the way that you prepare, don't let other people's audition, you know, make you start second guessing, you know, what you need to do.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: and then just bring your personality no matter what. Because the thing is if you go in there and you're playing something a way that you don't even normally play. And then let's say let's say you get the gig based off of, you know, however you decide to do it, you naturally are gonna get comfortable. At some point, and your gut your personality is gonna just show up. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
RJ Kelly: now it's just like, okay, this that's different than what I saw at the audition, but maybe let's try this or try that or whatever. And now you've gotten yourself into a problem because it's like this
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: isn't even how you play. And now,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yep.
RJ Kelly: you know what I mean? So always bring who you are to. Whatever situation you you're you're you're going into.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, that's perfect. So let me ask you this. So when you're getting calls now to do stuff and let's let's just give a hypothetical, right? A musical director that you've known for a while, but you may not have the privilege of working with yet calls and says, Hey, I got your name from such and such. Would love to have you on this project. What
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: is your approach going into this? Right. What how would how would you take this mentally? What's your approach? And let's just say you got a reasonable amount of time to prep this music. What What is that process like for you?
RJ Kelly: well I would say first of all, before I sit down, you know, to play any notes, I'm listening. I'm I'm listening through whether it's you know on a drive or you know just at home in the background, just because I just wanna, you know, just get all the nuances of whatever it is that I'm I'm I'm having to do. and then After that, you know, I might take a second to chart some things out just so that, you know, I kind of I'm sure about, you know, where certain sections are. and then I'll sit down on the drums or, you know, whatever it is that that I'm doing or whatever, and and actually just start feeling everything out and like feeling like how I would do it. but I start off just trying to learn whatever that groove is. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: then I'm like, all right, cool. This is the groove. And then I start thinking about just enhancing. am I gonna do like, or I call it like ear candy, you know what I'm saying? So instead
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: of you know what I mean? Like, so,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know, it could it could be whether like it's a it's a certain type of drum feel or you know, even within the groove, like am I am I gonna do, you know, like some quick hi-hat stuff or you know, some different, you know, rhythmic things or whatever, some splash stuff, you know what I'm saying? Like But that that's when I start, you know, really getting comfortable. After I've listened to it, after I've written down everything and I kinda know where everything is. Now I just start trying to find my spots to where I can be RJ. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Hmm. I think
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: that's a perfect way of explaining that. And approach, right? Because now you're not you're not overdoing it. You're confident on where you are in the groove, you know, in the song.
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And then now you know, okay, I can't take this part because there was a vocal ad lib and a BGV I can catch, or there might have been a synth or a bell line you can kind of accent that the Emmy's okay, you listen, or the artist, okay, I I see you caught my BGVs. That that's the ear candy. Okay.
RJ Kelly: Right. Yeah. Yep.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I think that's a a phenomenal approach. But now when you you do that, right, and they're you're killing, right? You feel like yo, I'm locked in and whatever, but then that MD is like, Hey man, can we try this? What's next for you?
RJ Kelly: On the spot.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, on the spot.
RJ Kelly: You gotta do it. You gotta like whatever that is, you better hope you have something like that in your repertoire. Like, that's the reason why it's so important to just like to listen to everything and to actually, you know, play your instrument outside of getting ready for a job or getting ready for a gig. Like, because you have to explore so many different things, or whatever, because you never know what an MD is gonna throw at you. And an MD might throw. Something at you that you would have never thought of. But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: but they it they they hear it in their head and that's what they want. So it doesn't really matter that you've never done it before. This is now what they want to hear done. And sometimes, you know, it's like you try it and they're like, okay, don't worry about that. Go back to this or whatever. Or you do it, even if you don't nail it, they're like, no. That's exactly what I want. Like, exactly what I was hearing in my head. Hearing you do even a little bit of that, like that, that's exactly what I wanted. Okay, so coming out of this second verse, do that. They're expecting you to do that pretty quick. You know what I'm saying? Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: so you know, you you just have to, you gotta be able to roll with the punches, man. Like, that's that's a a a big thing, I I will say, because You can prepare it, you can learn the all the right grooves or whatever. But especially like even working on American Idol, like you can learn the song, but maybe they want to do it in the style of this or in the style of this
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: other thing. And it's not the groove that you prepared because it's not what the record is. But they
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: they want to do. a a a jazz version or they want to do, you know, a you know a a real chill, you know, orchestral version of whatever that is. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: and now you have to figure that out. Or, you know, just I mean it it could be anything, like a a a Latin version of And Alicia Key song. You know what I'm saying? Like it just it it
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure, sure.
RJ Kelly: it really it it could be anything. So you gotta know how to how to move. Like it's and there there's really no other way to to really prepare for that other than just playing music, you know what I mean, and and being in different situations
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: or whatever. Cause man, American Idol definitely, you know, kinda like Taught me a lot. Like, I like you gotta stay on your toes. You know what I'm saying? Like, cause things happen so fast. And sometimes, like, you know, it'll be a change while you're on the way to rehearsal. So it's like you got a little bit of time to listen to something, you know what I mean? Put on your AirPods or, you know, whatever, listen to it, you know, on the way or, you know, whatever. And then sometimes it's like just before you're about to air and they're like, Hey, we're actually gonna this section right here, for eight bars, we're gonna go to, you know, this like a like a real churchy vibe, or we're gonna do like a, you know, like a a trappy vibe, or we're gonna do, you know, whatever it is, but it's gonna
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: be at this section. So you gotta make that note, and then you hear the countdown. Five, four, three, and and you gotta just be there. You know what I'm saying? Like it's it's what it is, but that music director. has to trust that you can do that though. You know what I'm saying? Like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: they they gotta trust that, you know, they can throw certain things at you and it's not gonna throw you off. And a lot of times, you know, mo most MDs know how much they can throw at you before you get frazzled or, you know,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: before before it's too much. Like they're like, yeah, yeah, he can do that. And sometimes it's it's uncomfortable because it's like, no, no, no, I I can't do that. But then they push they
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Ha ha.
RJ Kelly: they you know they they they pull something out of you that you didn't even know was there. Like there which that has happened too. Like there's been times where, you know, I work with an MD and they're they're like, no, this can be done. I'm like, bro, I only got two hands, two feet.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: I don't I don't see how this rhythm is gonna work. Like, no, it'll work. You got it though. Just take a second. We're we're we're gonna take a break.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Ha ha ha.
RJ Kelly: This is the rhythm that I wanna do. Just figure that out. And it's like, damn. And you gotta come back and and have it because you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: know, that's that's what it is. And nine times out of ten, like, it can be done. You just haven't thought about it like that. You know what I mean? So you gotta
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: you gotta constantly just be malleable. You know what I'm saying? Like that is another thing. Like you gotta just you can't go in there with a mindset of everything is one way, everything is this. Because
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: it like things change. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so you gotta be able to to do that, you know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. Yes. And I I'm glad you went there because I I was I was gonna force your hand indirectly, but
RJ Kelly: Ha ha ha.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I I I bring that part up because there's there's two people that have been monumental with that specific or specific process of don't think you're gonna get the music well in advance. And whatever you heard, you gotta be willing to unhear it. And it's you and John Witt. Y'all both taught me I remember when I was D
RJ Kelly: Well.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: or you were MD and something, you were like, you want the music now? Yeah, it's done, but nah. Just because I was so eager for it and I was like, bro, where's this music at? You're like, yeah,
RJ Kelly: I know. I know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: it's done, but I'm not sending it to you, bro. You're gonna get out this habit. And but that's that's massive because you trained it. And now when you get to a platform like American Idol, and I would love for you to talk about this process because I didn't know until I had the privilege of helping you build actually the kit that's behind you.
RJ Kelly: Yeah, yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: And
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I want the people to know how insane this is, but also how wild it is for you to be able to hear a note that says, Hey, these eight bars were going to a trap fill before the countdown, and you to be able to execute that under pressure of a song that you heard twice. That's crazy to
RJ Kelly: Right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: me.
RJ Kelly: It it is, man. It it is. And that's that's one of the things that I I had to learn because when I first got called to to even, you know, be in the band for American Auto, like I had a way that I thought things worked. You know what I'm saying? And so I went I went in preparing as if I was preparing for a tour or, you know, like some something like that. not realizing how fast this TV world moves and how fast, you know, just I mean, everything is so much faster, man. Like, so it was a little rough. I actually, I'll be honest with you, like, I wasn't sure I was gonna get called back, man. Like, it was
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
RJ Kelly: like, yeah, like it it was, it was, you know, like the the the the process was just like a Come in, you know, do this one episode, but this one episode includes these rehearsals and this particular taping. and we'll treat this like, you know, we're seeing if this works for you, you're seeing if this works, you know, for us, and you know, blah, blah, blah. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
RJ Kelly: like, I feel like I was just like, I was so in my head because there were things changing. I wasn't ready. Like, I didn't even have my iPad yet. So it was all paper charts. man, no, it was it was it was a lot. It was it was a lot, man. And I just I I wasn't sure, but that MD trusted me, Chris. Like he he he trusted that I could do it and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: called me and was like, Hey, so yeah, man, good job. And I'm like, bro, you have no idea. You have no idea.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: I was like, dude, this is this is crazy. Like, I mean, because
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: I I even I even met I I met a different version of him while we were in these rehearsals as as well, because he's under their pressure too. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: it's like they're expecting you to just be on. And they're expecting that if something changes, you can just adjust. The same way everybody else has to do. You know what I'm saying? Like it just it it is that. So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: it's like I didn't really have a choice, man. Like if if I wanted to do it, I just like you just gotta do it. You know what I mean? And it doesn't
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: always it it doesn't always work out, you know, perfectly. but I I I think that was one of the things that, you know, he gave grace for is like some stuff, all right, you know, you you might need a little bit of time for that or whatever. But some stuff is like, nah, I I actually Do expect you to do this now. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: Like, and he was like, he he told me from the beginning, he was like, look, don't try to memorize all of this. Because there's too many songs, there's too many moving parts. This is why we have charts. Just make a note. I went in there overconfident, like, no, I get it. I'll I I got it. We got
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Brian.
RJ Kelly: into this other, like the the the rehearsal the rehearsal right before the taping and I'm I was missing a couple things and he was like, yo, like, my bad. He was like, yo, like, don't what what are you doing? Like, why are you trying to memorize? Like, make
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: he's like, make the note and then let's move on. Like, but when I when I when I say this, like make a note of it. And then when we come back to it, it should just, it should just be there. So that kind of frazzled me a little bit because I'm like, damn, I'm I'm I'm missing stuff right now. And so I'm even more in my head because I've never done this before. There's a pressure of the lights and the cameras and you know what I'm saying? Like all this. There's judges out there. It's just, it's all of that, whatever. And I was just like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: let me just, let me just listen to exactly what he's telling me to do. Let me just do that. Whether I feel, you know, super comfortable with it, you know, or not, I'm just like, okay, let me take these notes. This is something I've I haven't had to do. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: yeah, it it it changed up, you know what mean? And even with the charts, it's like you look at the chart as like a roadmap, you know what I'm saying? Like you don't just stay glued to that chart. You know what I'm saying? Like you're you're you're looking at the chart, and it's like, you know, and the the the notes I write for myself are like, don't miss this or hit this, and I'll put like a I put it in like red, like and I'll point at the note, like, don't miss this thing,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: or you know, hit on three or you know, whatever. Like whatever is not actually in the chart and something that we may have changed in rehearsal, I'll write that down. And I'm just, you know, glancing back and forth because I'm also looking at him in case, you know, he signals for something else. You know what I mean? Like there's there's so many things that you gotta be
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: paying attention to, you know what I mean? Like, so if you're playing a you're playing a particular song. You're looking at the chart, you're looking at the MD, you're kind of, you know, looking at the rest of the band, but then you're also paying attention to the artist. Because if the artist is not really giving that energy, you don't need to to to be up that high. You know what I'm saying? Like if they're still
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: chill, then you you gotta you gotta read that. So there's there's so many things that you have to be able to do simultaneously. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: because if you get with an artist that, you know, you can start off like, okay, I'm just play this real chill, but then they start giving it more, then you gotta you got you gotta follow them. You know what I mean? Like because otherwise,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, game on.
RJ Kelly: yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like other and and that's everybody on stage. Like we're we're all like, she's going there, or you know, he's he's going there. Like if they're you know, they have like a bigger voice or you know what I mean, like just a bigger energy, then it's like, okay, yeah, we can we can push this a little bit. but you gotta be paying attention to like everything though, you know what I mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, that's that's that's a tough seat to sit in and in in any position on that show, by the way, that's not just the drummer, but you I think there's something to realizing too that yeah, you you might want music earlier, you might want to have the charts earlier, whatever, but your MD knows you didn't get it yet, right? They they're well aware and they also are aware
RJ Kelly: Right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: that if things have changed, every department now has to change. It's not just
RJ Kelly: That's it.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: The drums change. It's now lighting changes, video changes. You know, you might have
RJ Kelly: That's it.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: your playback engineer doing new LTC prints. Like there's a whole bigger picture here that is just beyond, hey, RJ, can you change this to this? It's like, no, no, no. Every department now is
RJ Kelly: that's real.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: game on.
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That that's huge. That's a huge realization of understanding that
RJ Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That's crazy though, but still sitting in that seat and recognizing that you do have a responsibility, right? You're sitting in and I'll I'll say it is like one of the arguably the the most difficult seats of a band because the groove
RJ Kelly: Right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: feel timing is really dependent on you. But
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: then now you have what's the max amount of songs you you've had before? Over sixty?
RJ Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. And then you might not even play some of those, but you but you have to know it in case you do. And sometimes there's different versions of a song. You know what I mean? Like you could do, you know, Ain't Nobody the original way.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: Or, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's so many other ways that you know somebody might want to do
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: So
RJ Kelly: it. You know what I'm saying? And and let's say it's on the same, you know, episode or you know, the same taping or whatever, and you gotta do four or five different versions. You gotta know which artist has which version and which little special parts are in that song. So,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Wow.
RJ Kelly: you know what I'm saying? And it and and it's gotta happen now, you know what I'm saying? So
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Like right now.
RJ Kelly: You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, there is there is no, you know what I mean? And and some episodes are a lot more chill than others. And, you know, it's not it it doesn't always feel like so much pressure. But then there's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: some episodes where it's like, yo, half of these contestants or artists have very high energy songs with
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: a bunch of special arrangements and a bunch of hits and a bunch of things or whatever, like Yeah, so you just gotta you gotta be ready. And I what I've had to do is just understand the situation. You know what I mean? And I would say use you gotta do that anyway. Like, but when once you understand what the situation is and what what you're walking into, you can't really be surprised. Like there's there's there's nothing that surprises me about American Idol. Because I have I feel like I've been in so many different positions. I've seen so many different scenarios. Like I'm
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: almost expecting something to be thrown at me last minute. You know what I mean? I'm almost expecting,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure. Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know, we got a new chart. All of a sudden. You know what I'm saying? Like, and it's not just a key change chart. Like, it's a new chart. We've we took out some bars here, we added them here. Did this here, now there's a special part, you know what I mean? Like, and you just kind of gotta be able to move fast with, you know, making those notes and and then you still gotta make it feel good on top of that. So, you know, it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
RJ Kelly: like, you know, it's it's a it is it is a job, you know what I mean? It's it's definitely, you know, a job that, you know, you gotta be very present for. You know what I mean? Like you you have to be there. And you know
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: what I mean? Like that's that's just what it is. Like you gotta you gotta be present.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: That yeah, how do you stay so calm though? Because when I when you and I first talked about the the workload, I was stressed out. I I was stressed out for you. I'm like, brother, you got how many songs and you ain't heard
RJ Kelly: Yeah. Right, right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: over half of them? But now
RJ Kelly: Yeah man.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: you you've been you've been grooved in, right? And I'm assuming it didn't just start you didn't just start where you are right now, right? You you probably started on some
RJ Kelly: Not at all.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I don't know kind of vibe, but
RJ Kelly: yeah, for sure.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: One thing about you and your temperament, at least that I've always seen, is that you've you've you're pretty chill, right? It's very relaxed person. And if I always know if RJ's frantic or something's going haywire, it's for good reason because he's a pretty melancholy person. But how how do
RJ Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: you how do you learn that, right? How do you stay poised and controlled and and not go off the rails of mentally, right? Because now it's like, okay, crap. I wanna go from we're in a country song, but I need to do a up tempo swing in this. And they just changed that. And then not even it's the show just started. We we just got here. How do you stay that poise, man?
RJ Kelly: Yeah, yeah. bro, because if if I don't i everything is gonna be off. Excuse me, like if if I don't stay chill, everything's gonna like everybody's gonna feel that I'm not sure. And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: As far as the the drums, like if if the the feel is off because I'm nervous or I'm frantic, like it's it's gonna throw everybody. It's gonna throw everything off. So it's like if if I'm calm, it now in in my mind it could be a thousand things happening, but I need to be
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: like I I need to be like here. in order to make
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: sure that, you know, I can process everything. You know what I'm saying? Like because if I'm just on edge, I'm like, okay, I gotta do this, gotta do gotta do that, gotta do that, like blah blah blah you know like you're you're gonna play like that. You know what I mean? And you're
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, okay.
RJ Kelly: you're you're you're gonna sound Stiff, you're gonna sound like you're thinking, you're gonna sound, you know, unsure, you're gonna, you know what I mean? It's gonna it's gonna be all that. So I yeah, like that, I've I feel like that's just that's the only way to be in really any situation because I feel like you make better decisions when you're calm and when, you know, you're you know, just in a in a in a in a calm space. I've found that. in a high stress situation, that is the only way to be. Because if if the if if the situation is already stressful, if the situation is already, you know, kind of uptight and you know whatever, like you meeting, you know, everybody with that same energy, that's no fun. You know
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: what I'm saying? Like, you know, so it you you you have to be you know, the calm. You have to be the the the chill. Even though, you know, stuff needs to move fast and all that kind of stuff. But if you're calm and you know you have a just a a a a level headed, you know, mindset about it, I've
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: found that just everything goes so much smoother. You know what I mean? And just, you know, like you everything doesn't have to be like everything doesn't have to be like that. You know what I mean? Like it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know what I'm saying? Like so I I often like even if somebody is telling me something and they're just very frantic in how they're explaining it, I'm like, Okay, okay, cool, got you. So you want this, this, and this. And they're like, Yeah, yeah, like, you know what I mean? I'm like, Yeah, got you.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, no problem.
RJ Kelly: You know what I'm saying? Like, because I I've
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: also noticed like it it calms them down.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
RJ Kelly: You know what saying? Like it it brings it all back and it's just like, hey, all this can get done. We just gotta take a step, take a second, breathe. You know what I'm saying? Like, and then this can be the smoothest thing ever. You know what I mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: but you know, if you you go into it, you know, just too uptight, like it it's it it's gonna sound like that. You know what I mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, so it's almost out of necessity. You you choose
RJ Kelly: It is.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: to keep your poise out of necessity to do the job well.
RJ Kelly: I have to, man. I I have to be,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: I yeah, I I have to be chill. I have to be calm because otherwise I'm just gonna start making mistakes. And I'm gonna start, you know, doing
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: and and and it's like silly mistakes. Like you know this song, you know where it's supposed to go. Like you know how
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: to do a generic feel to get you into the next section. But if you're thinking like, man, I gotta do this, I gotta make sure I you know, hit this note and make sure I do that, blah, blah, blah, blah, like just all this kind of stuff or whatever,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you start you start missing the easy stuff. You know what I mean? Like you you start, you know what I mean? Like, and so now and and now the the the feel is suffering. You know what I mean? And so
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: now it now it just doesn't even feel the way it needs to feel. You know what I mean? Like, so yeah, man, I've found that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. That's important.
RJ Kelly: there is no other way. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I think that's that's so important though that the people can understand that because they're it doesn't get easier the higher you want to go. It typically it's more difficult and a lot less prep time for some weird reason. But
RJ Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: that's that's a testimony to once again how excellent you are and how versatile to you are, not just as a player, but to a bunch of other people of service, right? You're able to pivot
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: for different musical directors, different genres, different styles, etc., and and perform well. And that's that's massive. And understanding the psyche behind it is also extremely valuable. It takes me to another question though, because I have to I have to ask the the drummer thing, otherwise people typically get a a little upset. But
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: let's talk endorsements for a second, and it's it'll probably very brief for you because my knowledge of your endorsements are are different than what the world probably knows. But you've been endorsed For a long time, right? And and fully endorsed
RJ Kelly: Hmm.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: and fully covered. And I haven't known you to swap. So why? Why the companies you chose? What what was the reasons for being where you are, indulging in the partnerships, staying loyal to the companies, etc.? W why? Why why those companies? Why why be endorsed?
RJ Kelly: that's a good question, man. so The high end of most of these companies normally sound good, right? They they they all have a character. They they all have something to them, right? But you would never say that, you know, a a Pearl Masters Customs sounds like trash. And you would never say, you know, a I don't know, like a a a a Yamaha. I don't even know what the what the highest they have, but but but you you you you wouldn't say that, you know, these the the the higher end of any of these drums sound bad. You know what mean? So it really just comes to This is gonna sound corny, but like you it it it really comes to like what helps you like speak the way that you need to speak. You know what mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: and you know, and and like for example, for for me, like I always played Yamaha. I love Yamaha. Still love Yamaha. But For what I wanted to do. Tamma is just it it embodies my personality. You know what I mean? Like, like you said, I'm I'm a very chill dude, right? Very chill dude. But when I'm on stage, I'm actually the opposite. I'm like aggressive. You know what I'm saying? Still chill,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Barry. Yep.
RJ Kelly: but like I'm I'm a lot more aggressive. And I feel like Tamma is just, it's, it is an aggressive sound. Like the drums. Punch, you know what I mean? Like there's there's a lot of body to the drums, you know what I'm saying? Like it's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: so so I I feel like that's just what works, you know, for me. Not to shade any of the other companies, because they all sound great, but
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: there's there's just there's something about Tama that has always resonated with me. not to mention, you know, even like the the the reps that I, you know, was dealing with at the time. Like when I when I first got signed, it this guy, Aaron Vishriya, and he's actually with Diodario now and still like great dude. You know what I mean? Like to to this day. But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Y'all still have a relationship.
RJ Kelly: yeah, but but you know, like to but to be honest with you, you know, between him and Sam, like they're just good dudes. Like I never feel like I am not taken care of. And I feel like that's important,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: you know, as well. Because, you know, in certain situations like you need, you know, w whether you need, you know, equipment or, you know, whatever, like it's a last minute thing. Like you always wanna feel like, you know, your your reps are gonna do whatever they can to make some things happen. You know what mean? and that's not to say that, you know, sometimes, you know, things happen and you know certain things are just unavailable. But you know that everything that could be done was done. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. Okay.
RJ Kelly: and so, so yeah, so as far as Tamma, like, yeah, I and and and and I guess really with with everybody, like even with my symbol company, Milo, Chris Brewer, man, like, he's just a he's just a good dude. He's like, he's very to the point, you know what I mean? But he's he's a good dude, has a good heart. And I honestly liked what they were doing at the time. This was, man, 10, I don't know, like maybe like 15 years ago, something like that. when I first
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah. You've been endorsed for a long time.
RJ Kelly: Yeah, man. And and and it's a blessing, you know what I mean? Like I'm I'm very grateful for that.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, sir.
RJ Kelly: but, you know, it's just there I I liked that they were just experimenting with sounds and just experimenting with ideas like what if we did this or what if we put this type of metal with this or what if we you know try this type of combination and all that kind of stuff but so I liked what they were doing just as a company and
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: I just I I I felt like you know I I want this to be a part of my sound you know what mean
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: yeah and then I just I I've I feel like If if you're taken care of There's there's not really a reason to switch it up. You know what I'm saying? Like
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: Sabian, great symbols. Zildjian, great symbols. You know, there's plenty of great symbols out there, but I don't know, man. Like, I feel like everything that I've been able to do, everything that I need to do, it can happen with Minel. And if it can't, or if if they don't have something, I can call them and be like, hey. Let's talk about this thing. Let's talk about this type of sound. Like, what would you recommend? Cause this is what I'm hearing. I was thinking, you know, this, this, and this, but like, what do you feel about this? If this is the sound that I'm trying to get to. You know what I mean? Like I can I can
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay. Yeah.
RJ Kelly: have a conversation, you know, with them. and I just I I I value that. I value that more than a free, you know, kit or, you know, a free set of symbols or, you know, whatever. Like I I value
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: the the care. Yeah, over over everything. You know what I mean? and so the fact that they're great products, like that is a perk, you know I mean? Like with Diodario, ProMark, Evans, you know, all of all of my companies, man. Like, I just I feel like I literally like the possibilities are endless with the combination of of all of my companies, man. So yeah, man, I just I just don't I don't I don't feel like I I need to change, you know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Respect. And I think that's important when people are trying to choose or when they're trying to think about do I want to get endorsed or X, Y, and Z. I think you're you're you first identified what your sound was and who could get get you there, right? And and get you to the product. And then then you're making a business decision on am I just another name on the artist's roster or am I going to have a relationship where my needs are met, but I can also service them as well, right? Because it's not just take, take, take. you also have to pour it back into the company to help them move product because that it's that's the whole point of the the endorsement. It's not it's that that's the point. There's no other
RJ Kelly: That's what it is. Yeah, Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: way of of shaping that. But
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I I love your intentionality behind it because I think a lot of people when we're younger and and I'll throw myself into this this mix of when you're younger, you're like, this this sound or this sound or I want to be with this company, this company. Yeah, that's cool. But you might end up number a a thousandth on their roster Is that helping you? Are you just repping a reputable company? That that's important.
RJ Kelly: Yeah. And and yeah, and and I I'll be honest with you, like didn't start out with Tama, like I started out with
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: Yamaha, like I I always played Yamaha drums. I didn't start out with Mino, like I always played, you know, Zildjian or Sabian, but mo mostly Zildjian.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: but you know, once I started gigging a lot more and I started, you know, doing a lot more just you know within the the industry, and started, you know, reaching out to to different, you know, companies, man. Like I keep it real, man. Like there was just there were there were some parts of it that I did that just didn't feel authentic.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: and like just certain, you know, interactions that were just like, yeah, I don't know about this. You know what I mean? Just kinda in again, like I know this sounds, you know It was a vibe thing, you know what I mean? That that
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: This is honest, yeah.
RJ Kelly: yeah, like it it was a vibe thing. And that and that's like again, like that there's there that's no shade to to anybody. But at the time that I was trying to figure out, you know, what my sound was gonna be, it took, you know, different conversations with different companies for me to be able to be like, you know what? This is what I'm gonna go with. And I and I I would tell people, you know, don't feel bad about that, you know what I mean? Like If you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: wanted, you know, this particular company, you know, for whatever reason, reach out to them. You know what I mean? Like try to try to do that. You know what I mean? Try to build a relationship. but also, you know, understand that sometimes things just don't work. You know what I mean? And that's not
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: a bad thing. That just means it just didn't work for no other reason than it just didn't work. You know what I mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: and so, you know, then you start opening your mind a little bit, like, you know what? Well, let me see what this sounds like. Let me see how this, you know, works and how, you know, how how I feel about this and how this records and how, you know, this cuts through, you know, certain mixes, or let me see, you know what I'm saying? Like all just all kinds of different things or whatever.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: And then you start realizing like, damn, I I thought I liked a particular thing. Now through experience, like there's things that I didn't even know to look for. There's things that I didn't
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: know that, you know, would be a factor in, you know, me making this decision. You know what I'm saying? So you just gotta you just gotta open yourself
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes. Yep.
RJ Kelly: up to, you know, it it all. You know what I mean? Like it's you you you can't be closed minded about really any of it. You know what I mean? Like it's you gotta be open. You gotta be open.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: think that's perfect. And yeah, I have one final question, and and this is the the the controversial one. And you can go into depth as much as you want to or as little as you want to. There's no there's no requirement
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: here. But there is a a thing here on off script where I I want to make sure that we're providing substance and help to the younger generation as well as our peers who want the information. They're yearning for the insight. They're yearning for the gems and you are a perfect person to ask in my opinion. In our industry, there is no set rate for our job description, right? We can't log onto like a state website and say, I'm a teacher with a bachelor's degree and I've been teaching for X amount of years. You should get paid this. It's
RJ Kelly: Right.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: kind of do whatever, right? So we oftentimes hear these mantras of you'll know your worth, or you'll hear things like, you guys are messing up the industry, or you shouldn't have done that. Okay. How does someone know what to take for an opportunity when they've never done it, it's never been outlined, and no one is really there saying you shouldn't go for that? Is there a metric?
RJ Kelly: And that's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Is
RJ Kelly: That's the thing, man. That that yeah, that that's the thing. Like, unless, you know, you're doing, you know, union jobs where it is stated, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is what it is, you know, at this skill, this is what it is for this skill, and then you know, it goes up from there. but I I I that's the that's another reason to, you know, be a part of the community, you know what I mean? Because I
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: think that Yes, you Ignorance is bliss, right? But for how long though? How long are you trying to be ignorant? You know what I mean? Like, so you know what I'm saying? Like, so like you, you,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
RJ Kelly: you, you, you get around, you, you know, start talking to different people and the the people that you know you trust and things like that. I always say, man, like, have those conversations and actually talk about numbers. you know, with with with within your circle, you know what I'm saying? Like, I know some people don't like to, you know, to just be like just online with it, like, yeah, you know, you should be getting this much and that like and that's fine. But like with people that you trust, you know, have those conversations because somebody within your circle does have an idea of what things should be close to. You know what I mean? Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know what I'm saying? Like, but but don't be afraid to To to have those conversations. because it, it, it varies, you know what I mean? Because you gotta think about everybody's situation is a little different. You know what I'm saying? Like everybody's rent is different. You know what I'm saying?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: People's bills are different, people's overhead is different. So, you know, it's hard to tell somebody, yo, you You shouldn't take this because it's you're only getting $500 or whatever for whatever it is. But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure. Right.
RJ Kelly: like if let's say that person that person needs that $500 and this opportunity is going to fulfill this obligation.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: You can't tell that person, nah, I don't do that. You know what I'm saying? Like and that's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes, sir.
RJ Kelly: why I say like it's not it's not black and white. You know what I mean? Like it's it's it's a conversation. You know what I mean? Let's talk about what is happening in it. Let's talk about the workload. Let's talk about how much time
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm-hmm.
RJ Kelly: you're gonna you're you're you're gonna have to spend on this thing. Let's talk about, you know, how long this job is gonna be. Let's talk about you know what I mean? Like there's certain There's certain things that we should probably go over to then decide is this $500 worth it? To then
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: decide, you know, is this something that I need to circle back and like, you know, ask them for more money on? Or is this like, or or does it make sense? You know what I mean? Does this $500
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: make sense for whatever it is that I'm needed, you know, to do? You know what I'm saying? Because you're you you're you you don't want to undercut yourself and you don't want to just, you know, take anything, but you also, you know, don't want to go the other way. You know what I mean? Like you don't want to
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: you know what I'm saying? Like if if you you you you just have to weigh it, you know what I mean? Like what is it that you're asking me to do? Okay, cool.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: This is this, this is this, and talk to people though. You know what I mean? Like Don't just say, like, don't then this this is the thing. Like, don't just accept whatever it is because that's what somebody offered. You know what I mean? Like, don't just say, if if somebody's like, yeah, I'll give you $500 to do this or whatever. First first of all, if if they said it like that nonchalantly, they probably got a little more.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: They probably got some more chicken, right. Yes, sir.
RJ Kelly: You know what I'm saying? Like if they they just kind of brush it off like, how's $500 sound? Sounds like you know you should probably give me more than that. You know what I'm saying? Like, you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, yeah.
RJ Kelly: know what I mean? So it it's it's it's situation by situation, you know what I mean? And a lot of times, you know, it's the it's the people that you're working with, it's you know, what else is coming from this, you know what I mean? Like, did you just start?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: You know what I mean? Like, are you at the very beginning of your career and, you know, your you know, taking you you're taking things to get the experience because I've gotten I mean, I've I've been in situations where Skill-wise, I was good, but I hadn't had the actual experience. Like,
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Mm.
RJ Kelly: I'll I'll never forget, man. One of one of the artists I was working with early in my in my career, she was like, yo, like, you you you sound good, but like you ain't never like been on tour, like you ain't never really been on the road, you haven't done, you know, shows back to back like that. Like, I mean, yeah, you can play these songs, but like. I don't really feel like you got the experience or whatever. And it's just like, well damn, like how I'm supposed to get the experience. Like, if you hire me, I'll get the experience. You know what I'm saying? But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right, right.
RJ Kelly: you know what I'm saying? Like, so you know, sometimes, you know, it like you'll you'll do things like you you you have to figure out what you gotta figure out what you're doing it for. You know what I mean? You gotta you gotta figure
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: out, you know, what what your situation is, you know what I'm saying? But but don't do it by yourself though. You know what I mean? Like definitely have it guided. Like you need to have these conversations though. You need to talk to people that you know are doing it at a high level. You know what I mean? And
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: figure out, okay, does this make sense? Okay, cool. This makes sense. I'll do it for this this time. Or nah, not gonna be able to not gonna able to do it for that. Like we're gonna have to do at least this and then we can talk about, you know, where we go. moving forward, you know what I'm saying? But it's never just a
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sure.
RJ Kelly: quick, yeah, I'll do that. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right.
RJ Kelly: it's not black and white like that. You know what I mean?
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah, I I think everyone is that I've been prompting this question to, you all have very similar approaches. It's number one, have mentorship or counsel. You know, you don't need to to make these decisions and and your reasonings are always you don't want to price yourself out, but you also might need the person like for you, you you were a massive person for me who were awesome. Hey man, you ain't done anything yet. So it sounds like you should go for this rate. Like no one knows you. No one can trust you yet, right? Yeah, I trust your abilities, but like I'm one person. Why don't you get the resume? Having both sides of that, where now it's like, yo, RJ, what do you think about this? Man, you've been doing this too long now. That you don't gotta go for that anymore. You get both.
RJ Kelly: Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: You get both honesty perspectives, but you didn't do it alone. And I I hope people really are understanding
RJ Kelly: That's it. That's it.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: that that counsel and mentorship.
RJ Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. That's real, man. That's real, man. People people I I hope people take away that. Nothing is black and white. One situation is not like this other situation. You can't go into every situation thinking that it's gonna be the same way because things change. You know what I mean? And you gotta be malleable and you gotta be able to, you know, sit with it and, you know, ask yourself, you know, well, ask yourself the the the right questions and then ask the person, you know, the right questions as well. Because yeah, every every situation is is is different and you have to approach it in that way.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I love that. RJ, for the the people listening, are you a person that is is reachable for these types of things? If someone wants to book a lesson or a consultation or just get some mentorship from you, are you are you open to that now at the your your point of your career? Are you doing that?
RJ Kelly: Yeah man, I I I am always down to talk to people and you know share, you know, any knowledge that that I have or you know, knowledge that that I've learned just kinda over the years, man, because I I feel like you know, we all, you know, wish that we could have had, you know, certain things along the way. You know what I mean? So I I'm I'm always
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yes.
RJ Kelly: I'm I'm always like look. Yeah, let's have a conversation. You know what I mean? Or and as far as the lesson thing too, man, like it's it's interesting with with the lessons, man, because you know, I always talk to people, you know, before I do, you know, a lesson or anything like that. I'm just like, okay, what is your goal? Like, what is it? Like, why do you feel like you want to take a lesson? You know what I'm saying? Okay, cool.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Sorry.
RJ Kelly: That's your reason. Okay. Then let's talk about that. Let's let's talk about how we can get to that point. You know what I mean? And and let's talk about, you know, why, you know, you feel like, you know, this needs to be a particular thing or whatever. and so, yeah, man, it's never it's never just a yeah, I'll show you how to do a paradoodle real quick. You know what I'm saying? Like it's like, you
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right.
RJ Kelly: know, it's like I I'm gonna show you how to apply that periodal. And maybe, you know, invert it or maybe do this or do that or think about it in a different way. You know what I'm saying? Like there's there's again, I feel like I've said this a bunch of times like within this conversation, but nothing is black and white. You know what I mean? Like let's
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: let's figure out, you know, what this is.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: I love that. Well, now people know you are a resource and and you're open for things like that. But we're gonna close with what's coming up for you, man? Where can people find what you got going on? Obviously on the stage, but also your own artistry, you know, you're at that's also out there and your your musical direction and and programming ring, where where can they keep figuring out what you got going on, man?
RJ Kelly: Yeah, man. You know, and th th this is something that, you know, I've been kinda off and on about, you know, for for years, man, but just, you know, keeping people up to date with with things. But I'm definitely, you know, working on my my own music and and actually, you know, putting it out there. I don't have a date, so don't ask me that. But
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Okay.
RJ Kelly: it it is in the process, you know what I'm saying, as far as
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: you know, the the the production of, you know, my own music. you know, and then as far as, you know, the just drums and, you know, things like I'm still on, you know, American Idol right now. there's a couple other things that, you know, I can't necessarily, you know, speak on now, but there's things coming up, you know.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Yeah.
RJ Kelly: and, you know, I will do my best to, you know, post something.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Right, right, right. Well, we'll definitely tag everything and we'll we'll include for all your socials as well as whatever you want people to be able to reach out to to connect on the lessons or consultations and mentorship. We just want to make sure we give people a resource to connect with you personally on obviously your artistry, but also off the court etiquette. You know, how can they do certain things and and move and groove in the industry to hopefully have a sustaining career like yourself? That that's that's massive, man. So Thank you again for just carving
RJ Kelly: a hundred percent. Yeah.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: out time to be on the show, bro. It it it means so much to me to have you on the show. So thank you, man.
RJ Kelly: Man, thanks. Thanks for having me, man. Like it's it's it's mutual, man. Like I I think this is a cool platform and yeah, man, I'm proud of what you're doing. Proud of how far, you know, like you you've come, you know, as well. Like, you know, it's it's it's cool, man. It's real cool to see.
Jarvis 'Jeb' Barnes: Thank you, bro. I appreciate it. Well, thanks everybody for listening. RJ Kelly.