Joseph Fordham: How you doing?
Domo Wells: I'm good, how are you? ⁓
Joseph Fordham: Very good, very good. Very grateful as well that you managed to shift this around a little bit. Thank you. How's your day going over there?
Domo Wells: No, no problem. So far so good, a little slow, but we're in the middle of rollout, so we had our second piece of content go up this morning, so I've just been watching that.
Joseph Fordham: All go, all go. I imagine you're wearing a lot of different hats whilst all this goes on,
Domo Wells: Always, always, always. I'm on the whole team some days.
Joseph Fordham: There's a famous sitcom over here called Little Britain, don't know if you've ever heard of it, but there's a sketch where the character writes the theme tune, sings the theme tune, what was I just going to think? That'll be you, yep.
Domo Wells: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You've seen that where it's like a team meeting and then it's just like clones of yourselves. Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: Okay, take one. Domo Wells is a creative director and founder of LA based sports apparel and design company, Dead Dirt. She shares her journey from childhood sketches and cutting up Barbie clothes to designing groundbreaking apparel for NWSL, revealing how self-confidence and a fearless desire to challenge the status quo fueled her evolution. Perfect, yeah I love that. Also very grateful that we've managed to get this in. I know that you've got a lot going on, especially since the Dead Dirt NWSL collaboration kicked off and yeah this is something I've been very keen to get in and I'm very grateful that we could do that so thank you.
Domo Wells: I appreciate the patience, I know this was a long time in the making so...
Joseph Fordham: ⁓ no, not so... and you're looking remarkably fresh for somebody that emailed me at 2 in the morning PT time, right? Drawing from her streetwear roots, experiences as a touring DJ, and a deep passion for regional culture, Domo developed a distinctive style that has helped craft authentic, impactful identities. There's also a mini skincare tutorial thrown in there. If you're an aspiring designer or entrepreneur, this episode is your blueprint for following your purpose and redefining what's possible. Enjoy.
Domo Wells: I'm a night owl and two of my editors are in Europe. So the combination of that and ⁓ one of my vendors is also in Asia. when we're, you know, by the time we're reaching the night, it's the beginning of their day. You know, I'm typically up pretty late at night. My husband hates it, but.
Joseph Fordham: Running on empty maybe, I don't know. I've got twins and I struggle to stay up past 9 o'clock. So fair play. Yeah, 18 months old, give or take. yeah, yeah. Being awake at 2am, that's just a dream. That's just a dream for me. Those were the days. Yeah, those were the days.
Domo Wells: ⁓ my gosh, how old are they? Are they like babies? Yeah, your life is changed. It's okay, I'm sure it's worth the sacrifice.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. We'll get on to the NWSL, I'm sure, at some point and all of the build up to that and where you are now. What I would love to do first, if you don't mind, is to kind of roll it right back and talk about what your creative output looked like. your formative years and then maybe in some sort of linear way we'll make it back to here who knows
Domo Wells: Nobody wants to hear about that. Oh man, formative years, mean, how far you wanna go, bro? Like, mm.
Joseph Fordham: What was your earliest creative leaning, I guess? What were you drawn to as a kid? Was it fashion immediately? Was it...
Domo Wells: It was pretty, I don't know if I even understood it as fashion. Like when I was a little girl, I used to have a hard time with my Barbie's clothes. So I was, which sounds funny. It sounds like a lot funnier right now just because I'm actually doing this, but I used to really hate. the Barbie clothes that were offered because I think when I was a little tiny girl, they were just super girly or just really, ⁓ the aesthetic was pretty statically pink flowers and, ⁓ you know, just shit I didn't like. And so I was typically cutting up like t-shirts and old fabric my mom might let me have to make them new clothes. ⁓ I remember like, I would put my Barbies in my roller skate. instead of in the Barbie card that my dad had bought me because it was pink and it like pissed me off. like, why can't we, you know, I think I want to paint it green or something. And my dad was like, no, it's too expensive. Like I'm not painting it green. So I just like refused to use it. I will put my Barbie in my roller skate cause it was black and white. Which I don't think I understood that back then. Yeah. Like I'm just like, I need something more neutral, bro. Like this hot pink is not doing it for me.
Joseph Fordham: It's like a Hell's Angel.
Domo Wells: So, you know.
Joseph Fordham: that was that was this what is it what does that look like inform some sort of study pathway for you as you kind of progress through your teens into adulthood or is this like a is it more of a
Domo Wells: You know, there was a time where I really wished that it had, you know, the interest had always been there, but I don't think that my family quite understood the pathways of a designer at the time. And so there weren't a lot of people around me who were equipped to kind of point me in a direction of that. And so I definitely didn't dive into it in a way that felt like, oh, this could be my job more than I would do it in ways that were. you know, that felt kind of, that's not really true. Actually in high school, I had like a streetwear brand that was called Click. I forget about it all the time, but it's also so embarrassing. was like, junior and senior year, I did have like a brand that I kind of had started. And it was like a breakout from these guys that I met in like 10th grade that worked at like a screen printing shop in Maryland and their brand was called Fatboy D.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah.
Domo Wells: And I think I had answered some call to like model or one of them had asked me to like model or something stupid. And then they were contemplating starting a women's like arm of their brand Fatboy D. And however it came up, like, you know, I got brought into that and I ultimately ended up designing the majority of that stuff and kind of working with them for a couple of years. it was fun. Like it was a fun kind of like, I think start into it, but it wasn't. something that I understood back then again, is something that I could do for real, just because there was nobody else really around to kind of propel me past that point. But I would dabble absolutely. Like I worked in retail as a teenager to just feed my clothes fashion addiction back then. Like I would literally just like work in that store so I could buy clothes again. Like they knew that half of the, I think half of the kids that worked there were doing that, were just working to buy clothes.
Joseph Fordham: Mm-hmm.
Domo Wells: So that probably was like my early days with it. I did want to go to design school. It was so expensive, you know, and here in the States, it's not like, you know, offered like it is in other countries where you could just like go to design school. So was like super expensive. I didn't come from a lot of privilege. And again, like people just didn't quite get it. So ⁓ I did not do that outright. It just became something I dabbled in. you know, in my twenties through like other ways. And then it kind of resurfaced once I started to DJ because I found myself in places like festivals and big stages where, you know, I appreciated a costume for those moments. So I would make a lot of my own stuff. And there's absolutely some ridiculous outfits in that era, a hundred percent, but it would find its way through. wherever I was, you know, whatever I was doing.
Joseph Fordham: Was it a little jarring to start making clothes in adult sizes when you worked with these fat boy D guys jumping from the Barbie dolls up to adult sizes? Just... Wait a minute, this doesn't fit!
Domo Wells: You know, I don't think that was considered, you know, considered it until now, like at all. But yeah, I don't know. It was, you know, I came up in the era of like streetwear that was like. LRG and obviously Stussy's always been relevant in that conversation. like, ⁓ and then there weren't that many women's brands, know, there's like, there were like a ton of men's brands. And I remember I used to work for this sneaker boutique. This is kind of at the cusp of streetwear before it kind of turned a mainstream corner. Cause I was like 17. ⁓ And In those boutiques, it would be mostly men's. There'd be these tiny little corners for women's, and then it would be these three or four brands, Hells Belles, Married to the Mob. occasionally maybe we would get a women's 10 deep drop. I don't know if you're familiar with 10 deep, but I was a 10 deep Hells Belles, babe girl. And I used to get frustrated that there weren't more women's options.
Joseph Fordham: No.
Domo Wells: And so I think that was part of when I was in high school, what kind of compelled me to work with a guy. Cause I was like, we need more options and things that kind of like relate to the group of girls that I'm from. So I don't know, it didn't feel, it didn't really feel connected. I don't think I ever put it together. You know, when I was a little girl until when I was in high school, I think I was just following, you know, the things that interest me at a given. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: Following the scent, yeah, following the scent so to speak. I'm finding this really interesting because going back to what you said, wasn't that kind of, through your background, wasn't that pathway laid out. So I'm assuming you mean like working class background. It's more like just kind of finish school, get a job. And that's the kind of the way you roll down. The creative of the arts is not necessarily something that is encouraged or pursued. That would be true of my background as well. but you're kind of ignoring that and following your nose. Yeah, but there was something even then when you're in high school that you felt that there was something missing that was available, that should be available to you. you've, I guess, heeded that call to make it, for it to be you that would fill that gap. So that speaks to me as some kind of... as level of self-confidence and maybe a knowing even though you didn't know that that was eventually the way that you would be going.
Domo Wells: Yeah, I mean.
Joseph Fordham: what was it that was keeping you from kind of turning your back on that kind of thing?
Domo Wells: Let's say confidence in this era came later. You know, there's more of a knowing or intuitiveness about it or just like a pull energetically to move towards the thing than there was confidence at the onset. I think even with my younger days, I don't remember. so much because I don't have to think about this stuff. It was just buried so far down in my brain because it feels so embarrassing now. But like I had that line as a teenager and then I want to say somewhere in my like early 20s I had another brand that I made but I did it in secret. And it was called, it was under the name or the moniker Cockrave, which the street I grew up on. And it was essentially a series of just really basic screen printed t-shirts that had like these colloquialism phrases that we used in the city I'm from. And that. brand also. remember I was ⁓ anonymous behind it for a while because women just get treated differently in fashion or anywhere, you know, but especially in streetwear, especially back then with such a male-led space. And I mean, it still is. ⁓ And so it's really a... difficult I think for sometimes a brand to cut through if there's a woman at the head of it. So even with that brand, I kind of forgot this too, but even with that brand, I stood behind it pretty quietly at first. And then I think I stepped in front of it like a while later after we had like some huge success moments, like a couple of like what felt viral back then in DC. And so. Yeah, I think it's just always been this knowing I can't quite get away from it. know, like I'll have an idea and I feel compelled to execute it. And so I just do it without necessarily a marriage to the concept of like, I have to do this forever or it is forever. It's just, this is my idea. I need to just do it, you know? And that's kind of how it's felt at every point, you know, whenever I'm making anything related to fashion. It's just like, no, I just feel really strong about executing this idea. So we have to do it.
Joseph Fordham: like an itch to scratch so to speak and then you can move on to the next the next idea.
Domo Wells: Yeah, I think now we're just in the sum of all of those experiences and approaching it with a different lens because I'm a big girl now and have experienced so many things. So I can shape it a lot differently and kind of have an understanding of the lay of the land a bit more than I did back then. I'm just knowing where my opportunities lie. So I think this time around with that dirt, ⁓ man, I didn't start with confidence. It was just a a knowing and a ⁓ compelling sense to execute and do. And then ⁓ the confidence absolutely came later, I think.
Joseph Fordham: I guess once the data is there that it's kind of, it's working, right? The confidence goes, yeah, yeah. ⁓
Domo Wells: Yeah, it's working. It's working and it's for somebody other than myself. Because I think it's like I think I feel more purposeful in the work in any work that I do when it's not just about me. Like, of course, it's fulfilling to me and I need it to be that. But it's also more fulfilling when it's not just about me. So I think the way women's sports has showed up has been so. purposeful and so aligned because it's for them. know, like they need it too. They need the stories told and they need better shit. So I'm like, you know, bet that's easy for me, you know, to, you know, I'm hitting multiple birds with one stone at that point. So it just made me feel good about what I was doing. And then I started to understand, was like, okay, and I can orient and build a foundation around a real business, you know, that can.
Joseph Fordham: You
Domo Wells: serve many different people. So it's been, it's been good.
Joseph Fordham: So with that in mind, how does the balance work between the taste and style that you've developed over the years? ⁓ How does it work aligning that with something so established as NWSL ⁓ and putting your stamp on that without diluting down what... NWSL is and what it means to people. Is there a lot of compromise that has to come from your artistic output in that?
Domo Wells: You know, that's a good question. think luckily the NWSL, you know, is, they're absolutely establishing like their own identity. I do think that they're early in that process of, you know, completely even, I think putting a fork in who they are. And there's a lot of ways to interact. iterate that because that umbrella is wide and just getting wider as they add more teams in regions. And I think it's really, to me, it's really important. Like when I work with these teams to come in with the intention of wanting to inject the nuance of those regional cultures into the work that we do. ⁓ And so as much as it's about like, yeah, I want to make it trendy and cool or not even trendy. I think I just want to make it cool. you know, like, just want to make it cool and low key, like something that feels timeless to this moment that even if the brand of these teams change their colors or their crests or whatever, the things that we make now will still matter to you or they'll still like hold significance years from now. Like I'm trying to help strengthen that heritage with the work that I do. So. I don't think it's an easy thing per se, more than there has to be just an innate understanding and want to do that each time. It doesn't mean that like we hit it 10 out of 10, but I think people completely understand like how we show up at this point and that we're not gonna slapstick a logo on a t-shirt and take, you know, $50 from you for some bullshit that's gonna turn into a wash rag a couple of weeks from now. I want it to be things that people enjoy no matter if they're fans or not, you know, to be honest. And so I've kind of designed from that scope of like trying to balance culture and heritage while also trying to appeal to this existing audience and a new one. So there's no science to it. You know, I can't give away at all because you know, you got to pay me for that Joseph, but.
Joseph Fordham: you Do you feel like, is there a weight that comes with that, know, designing for a space that hasn't necessarily had this kind of care and attention before? Do you feel like they're the sense of responsibility?
Domo Wells: ⁓ Yes, a little bit. There's like, there's like a, there feels like a sense of responsibility because I want to do it right. You know, I think if I'm doing it right, then people do naturally like see themselves in the work or will gravitate to it. And so I think as we've continued that has happened. And so it lets me know that we're on the right path. ⁓ But it, does. I think I only understand it when I'm like out in the world with people.
Joseph Fordham: Or freedom, it might be there's a freedom to it.
Domo Wells: and then they're telling me how something made them feel. And I have no concept of that. You know, I design in a bubble, in a vacuum, and I don't know how people feel until it comes out and it's done already. And half of the time I think I'm just... I'm not trying to absorb too much of the outside noise, but I do appreciate when somebody tells me how impactful something was. ⁓ And of course, like I see the Reddit thread sometimes when people are like complaining about something, but I also see when they're, you know, enjoying something too. So ⁓ it's tricky, you know, it's a tricky thing as far as like pressure is concerned or the weight, but I do feel like a responsibility maybe to like, to to do it right, to do it with good intentions and to try my best to like represent these teams and these players too. You know, like I think that's a huge part of it for me is like I want very much for this league, its teams and its players to be household names. And I don't think you do that through shallow, you know, marketing exercises and shit. I think you have to be trying to. tell a story that makes sense for this community that literally just makes them show up every time because they see themselves in it, not because they feel marketed to or sold to. Like I'm not really trying to sell you shit for real. I'm not really trying to do that. I'm trying to just welcome you into this world and you know, see who wants to be here or not and it's for them. You know, like it's not, I don't approach our rollouts from a standard like, ⁓ this is what the marketing. Strategy should be even though I know that's what it is and it's got to look like that for the business of those teams But for me like I'm I'm always trying to inject like the realness of it and like even like little side quests to it and things that don't feel like so dead center, you know, I Hope that answers your question
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah, absolutely does. Yeah, I'm just guessing we can backtrack slightly to the Reddit threads and I'm curious ⁓ as a creative how you, I guess, maintain the status quo or a positive mindset when you see some negative comments about something that you've put your heart into. Because the compliments are easy to...
Domo Wells: Okay. It's a bit of a smack on your ego when people are like upset about something but I'll say I'm glad that I was able to start with a team and work with a team and kind of learn and observe through that work first because sports is just like that in general. You know, it's probably one of like the few professions where Every time you show up, the people are going to give you a progress report, a performance review. They're going to tell you how shit you were or how good you played. And every time, you know, in real time, while the game is on, when the game is over, it's actually so stressful. I'm like to be an athlete is actually like very, very stressful because as much as the people will be right there with you when you're winning, they will be on your ass when you're losing too. And so for that,
Joseph Fordham: Yeah.
Domo Wells: I think I'm already thrown into that by way of this industry and the way it operates. So I can't really feel the way when it gets directed at me too, because that is what this is. I've also had to accept that what I make is not for everybody. And that's totally fine. That's not the point. If I made it for everyone, it would be shit probably, you know? And so.
Joseph Fordham: there.
Domo Wells: If it's not for you, that's totally fine. I think the only thing that kind of irks me a little bit is like, just because something isn't for you doesn't make it shit. And so I kind of see a lot of that sometimes where people are like really asserting how they personally hate a thing. listen, I live in a world of creativity and there's plenty of things that I personally enjoy. And there's also plenty of things that I will see and go, hmm, I don't like that personally. But I understand that that's for somebody. It's just not for me. So I don't feel. Yeah, yeah. It's like, if sometimes you can just tell like people just want to talk shit or maybe they're miserable, whatever. That's none of my business. Cause at the end of the day, if the thing is sold out, I don't care. I don't care. Now, if I'm getting a fury of those messages,
Joseph Fordham: Let me just tell them I don't like this. One second while I just take that. Yeah.
Domo Wells: about something, then maybe I'll care, I'll pay attention. It's like, ⁓ okay, maybe there's something wrong here. I do need to pay attention to it. But if it's just people, you know, kicking it on it, it's like, I don't care. I have to like let it roll off of me. And thankfully I've been through enough training in the city I'm from. I think we come out the womb, you know, cracking on people, making jokes and doing all that. So my skin is already pretty thick, I think. yeah.
Joseph Fordham: DC right? Is it DC? I spent two weeks in DC about 15 years ago in the midst of winter. So yeah, you're made of, it was freezing, you're made of stuff. I spent a couple of nights out in, Adams Morgan was it? Is that where the, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was drinking some sort of shot out of the ketchup squeezes, know, they just kept filling up these things. was a lost night.
Domo Wells: ⁓ yeah, you were having a time.
Joseph Fordham: maybe I lost a couple of nights. Yeah, I got a good intro to the town there.
Domo Wells: Yeah. Adam's Morgan. Yeah, did you go to the diner on Adam's Morgan? Or...
Joseph Fordham: It was some sort of dive bar, was some sort of dive bar there, like a wonky pool.
Domo Wells: The biggest one is Morgan's, is it Morgan's Organ? Something like that, I forget the name of it, but it had a fun little sign out front of it that looks kind of like a burlesque girl or something, I forget. But, okay.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah. I forget the name but I knew as soon as I walked in that it was going to end badly for me that night. It just had that smell in the air, you But you know, you're from there, you know. Little English boy like me walking in, I didn't stand a chance. I didn't stand a chance in there.
Domo Wells: HAHAHA Yeah, yeah. ⁓ my god. As long as there's no evidence, Joseph, you're good.
Joseph Fordham: No, it's just at the dawn of Instagram. think that account doesn't even exist anymore. This is fine. Back when everyone was really using filters, know, really putting that... Yeah.
Domo Wells: That's in all of our favor. None of us need to be from that.
Joseph Fordham: No, no I'm grateful for that. You touched on like the influence or the things that you enjoy outside of fashion that you appreciate or you don't appreciate but you understand the angles they come from and whatnot. What mediums do you enjoy I guess and where do you draw inspiration?
Domo Wells: ⁓ huh. Hmmmm You know, I obviously like love music. ⁓ And I think I appreciate the artists within that space that can world build around what they make. ⁓ You know, I spent years, 10 years as a DJ and... and working in music professionally. was a foundation of experience for everything that I do right now. So I think music is probably a huge part of that. Spending a lot of time touring, concerts, shows, festivals, all that. So I really, really do particularly love music, the crosshair of music. ⁓ Medium-wise, I mean... I really just like to observe things in real life. Like there's no specific thing. Like I like to just be out in the world and kind of observing people and things. Like those are what interests me the most probably. Learning about new cultures is probably really important for me, partially because of my music work. Like when you go to New Orleans, being able to connect with that audience because you know that they listen to bounce music. You know about bounce music, Joseph? What you know about bounce music?
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah, yeah. couldn't, I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I am aware of it.
Domo Wells: Okay. Okay. So like that, you know, and then the culture around bounce music. What does that look and feel like, you know, how do those people dress? You know, what does it, you know, what are the sub genres within that? And then you can do that in any place, you know, you can, then you can go to the Bay area and get into high fee music. And then there's a culture around. And so I think like, I really like to understand that, especially from like communities and music that are, that are innately rooted in like black culture and black community. Like that to me is... ⁓ really fulfilling to me to understand because they're all connected in my opinion and I think a lot of people is like there's overlap between all of those musical sub genres so whether it's like the Hi-fi and the Bay, New Orleans Bounce or DC's Go Go music or Chicago House music, Baltimore Jersey Club music like they're all kind of part of the same like you know I think I don't know if phenotype is the right word to describe it, but they're all to me like their cousins, their family. So I like to absorb things from that perspective of like intersectional, like creative things that kind of like surround each other because what is music without fashion? know, what's fashion without music? And then I think how does that fall in other places? It's usually like. where a lot of my inspiration is drawn. Because I grew up in DC, I grew up in GoGo music. I was at the GoGo every weekend. The culture has changed a lot, the experience of it is not quite the same as it was when we were kids, just because it was criminalized and moved out of DC. There was a lot of political, racist, gentrification bullshit with that. And I think how I exist adjacent to that, I'm a product of it. And it's one of those things that... doesn't get the credit it deserves. It doesn't get the visibility it deserves either because of the regionality of it all and the fact that it never quite went national. So the influence of DC doesn't. doesn't get the light it deserves. I think that was a big factor in like my DJ work as well as this one now. Like how I show it with Washington Spirit was driven largely by the fact that I want people to know that DC has its own culture that is not about the transplants that come into the city or the monuments or the stereotypical things. There's more to us. And I think that that exact notion exists for a lot of other cities and places that are considered like secondary markets. So a lot of my influence, a lot of like things that I draw from are really like rooted in that.
Joseph Fordham: How does that kind of experience shape you do you think? Like being a part of a scene like that that is essentially driven out? But I guess the experiences that happen within it are uniting with the people that you're there with, know, ⁓ they're bond building and yeah I'm just curious in how you think living through something like that as short-lived as it may be. influences you as a person down the line.
Domo Wells: think for me it just puts a fire under my ass a little bit more probably ⁓ because if I don't see us represented I don't... I'm not really of the mind to keep complaining about it. like, what are we gonna do? Who's gonna do something about it? I think it's so easy to just complain and then sit back and do nothing and then nothing changes. So what's the point of that? That's pretty cyclical. And so I think ⁓ it just really puts a fire under my ass. And as I realized that we're not the only ones that kind of don't get that shine, it just emboldens me to wanna do it for more people. So there's layers to that regional. cultural work that I think is always underlying in anything that I do because I typically care about like that secondary market or that underdog who I know is doing the work. Like there was a period of time like maybe like a couple years ago where we were seeing a huge uptick and I think we're still in it a bit like these remixes that you might see on TikTok of mainstream songs that are like a club remix but they're really Jersey Club a Baltimore Club remix and what we were starting to see was like, you know producers who are not from those cities You know sampling the sound and making similar beats But then the people who were from those places weren't getting any credit weren't being pulled in to those same moments or conversations and that matters, know, and I know that matters for the sake of like when you look at big DJs who are able to kind of have those big collaborations with the mainstream artists for whatever dance song they made but oftentimes like a genre that's rooted in a black community, they don't get the same moment. They might not get the same level of collaboration or respect. And it's really unfair. And it's part of this like systemic thing that's like, man, Joseph will be on the phone for another hour if I get into the politics of that. But it's a it puts a fire under your ass, you know, to like take control of how your story gets told and to own it and to have autonomy over it. I think that's what it did for me. Coming from DC, I've always felt like, you know, we were misunderstood. You go to New York and then people call us country or you go to different parts of the world and there wasn't always this like understanding or respect for us. And I think, you know, a lot of people are plagued by that. A lot of... regional cultures don't get the love that they deserve. And so I think for most of us, it puts a fire into your ass.
Joseph Fordham: It's like a touch of the activist about you I'm picking up. Like going back to the teens, yeah you know and you're like okay this isn't represented in fashion here so I'm just gonna make that and then there's this happening here and you're like okay yeah this is putting a fire up your arse to do something about that and yeah you assume the responsibility to make something happen or something change. I'm wondering which one of your parents is responsible for this edge.
Domo Wells: Look.
Joseph Fordham: that you're carrying here. It's one of them.
Domo Wells: I don't know. I might put it on the boys I grew up with more than my parents. I think I was definitely raised by a community with some specific ways of life that are probably still influencing me now.
Joseph Fordham: Right, yeah, yeah. Is that a way of life that's maybe, does that exist now do you think? Something I've been kind of just mulling around with lately is that, I don't know, that we live in such a, so social media is just omnipresent. know, I think... ⁓ I'm going to show my age a little bit now but I've been thinking back to a trip to Thailand 20 years ago, I was 21. I was the other side of the world. There was no smartphones, maybe a year or so down the line they were, no social media. It felt like I was on the other side of the world. It looked like I was on the other side of the world. you go to the other side of the world and it's just like avocados on toast as one basic example you can get that in this seaside town that I live in or can go to Bangkok and it'll be the same thing everything's kind of like you see on Instagram is the same thing everyone's having a kind of similar experience maybe now that's you know in generations down and I'm curious if you think that the the culture that shaped you if it does it exist now and could we see more people like you coming up or are those days done?
Domo Wells: You know, I think the generation I came up with, I won't say that it's completely non-existent, but the scene that I came from... might be just because it, as I was mentioning earlier about how GoGo Music got criminalized in DC in the early 2000s. And so that is significant because it changed the youth's experience with GoGo Music, ⁓ which means like they didn't have access to it in the same way that I did as a teenager or as a kid. ⁓ It was almost as if you think about your high school band, how every high school had maybe their own bands or whatever that might perform at dances or perform at school functions or things like that. That used to be ever-present. It's like go-go music and go-go bands where everybody kind of had their own generation of it because... you know, the youth were injecting their influences into it. And so like even within go-go music, there's sub genres. And so those sub genres are very much attached to the generational shift of whatever's influencing music at that time. And so I would say this current generation did not have the same relationship to it because it was banned from their schools. There were not youth like go-gos or dancers outside of their schools. anymore for that reason. And then even, you know, going into young adulthood. So that also means like, they're not making it. You feel me? They're not like, they're not, they're not seeing it and they're not making it. So that means like, their relationship to it is through their older, their, their parents or like their older family members who they were the last ones who were able to be as hands on with it. And so I would say like socially, that part of the culture in DC.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah.
Domo Wells: looks and feels very different. I do see people still iterating it, but they're definitely from that older generation. There's a handful, probably very small pool of young kids who are living in it or spending time with it. I do think people visit it. Like they will sample a sound and try to inject it. There's an artist right now, his name is Primo Rice. He is amazing in general. Like he's a rapper, but I have seen him recently, you know, try to inject. will not try but inject gogo music in a way that's very subtle. But I know it because I know the sounds, you know, but if you listen to it, you would, might not, it's not gonna register for you. You might just like it because it's a hip hop song, but, it's a good song, but I know the sample. I know the gogo song he's referencing. And so ⁓ the song is called TCB style and TCB is a gogo band. ⁓ And then he samples one of their records in that song. So I think like people are still, keeping it alive. Obviously, like the previous generations are still here. They're still living it and performing it, but they're getting older. And so my hope was even like people kind of, my hope is that there's this return to like a regional love of the things that are innately from your city in general, because the internet kind of flattened that. know, everybody got access to everything. And then there's kind of this generalization of a lot of things and there's not as much. you know, specific, especially as far as like that cultural element is concerned to an area anymore or even necessarily a respect. And so I do hope that there's a time where there's like a return to that in general, where there's just this innate love and, you know, innovation around like things that are innately like from a place. I feel like I got so far away from your question.
Joseph Fordham: Okay. No, that really struck a chord, didn't it? Something resonated with you there, you went in. And I think you really, yeah, I could tell that was really coming through. And I think you used the term, it flattened it, that's described it in a much better way than I could. Yeah, there's just a, everything's a little bit more generalized and the texture is taken out of local.
Domo Wells: Nah, I care about it. after.
Joseph Fordham: local communities and maybe the bottom falls out of it and we do see a return to that as an act of rebellion maybe of the kind of globalisation that we experience.
Domo Wells: I think what people forget, and this is again, like off on a tangent, but it's something I've been thinking a lot about recently just in my work in a general sense, but people, it's funny to me how much we, and I'm guilty of this, oftentimes will enjoy a thing, but then the moment it becomes a trend, we kind of hate it. However, trends are typically how we get like, innovation and spinoffs of like a sub subversion of anything. And so we kind of need that. You kind of need every era to recreate or or completely create a brand new trend so then they can have their relationship to the thing. And so it's really important because then out of that, you do get this handful of, you know, people who do elevate that thing or innovate it and that's like when you look at any like ⁓ I was reading this thing about ⁓ Donald Byrd once and he was like a classically trained musician I forget which instrument but or like a classically trained jazz musician and he was making jazz music for a long time but then he started experimenting with new sounds within jazz and he was calling it something else. I can't remember exactly what he was calling it, but it was like jazz, like hyphenated with something. And he got so much ridicule for it. And then he really was at the cusp of like disco and that funk kind of shift, but he was at the beginning of it. And so people weren't really understanding what he was doing. And because his original audience was jazz, they hated what he was making because they felt like he was disowning. you know, the genre he came on, but when in reality he was just part of a pioneer of a new genre. But you kind of like needed this influx of creators of people who were like experimenting in a trend where you actually get like real tight shit out of it based on this injection of like all of these people kind of creating in a new similar way. So I really been like spending time on that about how things really ⁓ innovate something brand new from something that was. And I don't think there's like a full understanding of how that happens for most people. So I actually do enjoy trends. I pay a lot of attention to them for that reason.
Joseph Fordham: There's a lot of bravery to that, do you think? Using Donald Byrd as an example. Yeah.
Domo Wells: Absolutely, have to be willing to abandon ship. You gotta abandon the thing you know or the thing that looks like it's working. Yeah, 100%.
Joseph Fordham: Where does that do, where do you think that kind of, I don't know if desire is the right word or even just the thought to do that, you know, because it is leaving the known to try something new that could completely fall on its face or it does change things forever and influences even more people than it could have done in your existing genre. Could that be something that's innate, is a calling that you respond to? or just a need for change, I don't know. Is that something that you feel yourself with your own work?
Domo Wells: Yeah, I think for a lot of creators it's just an innate feeling. There's just some compelling feeling to do something else more different your way, whatever the case may be. And I think it's all of our responsibilities in some shape or another to follow that until you figure out exactly how you're supposed to be existing in it. ⁓ And so yeah, for me, it absolutely was this internal knowing because I didn't want to do any of this shit. I don't want to any of it. I didn't want to start a brand. I didn't want to quit my job. I didn't want to do any of it because it just felt like a terrible idea. It's a bad idea. The economy is in the dumps.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah
Domo Wells: people are getting laid off everywhere. just felt like a bad idea. I this is a terrible idea, but I have to do it. Like, I don't know what's going to happen on the other side of this. And I think the last time I felt like this, it was when I had quit my job to start to DJ and then everything just kind of clicked and did well. So luckily I have been through this with myself to know that there's an, there's the other side and there's always more on the other side. So you kind of just do it anyway, despite like being scared or not being sure or. all of the things because there's more than what the people are offering to you. know, like there's more than what's being handed to you and you can absolutely like do what you want, make what you wanna make and figure out how to like build a life around that if you're determined to do that. And so I, yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: Are you familiar with The War of Art by Steven Pressfield? He's an American author and he's written some fiction related stuff but The War of Art is, I've only read it recently, it's regarded as one of best self-growth books going and he talks about resistance with a capital R.
Domo Wells: I'm not.
Joseph Fordham: that everybody feels it to some degree, but that everybody is born with something that they have to do. it's like kind of their responsibility to make that happen. And many people ⁓ live what he calls a shadow career. So it might be something that's just adjacent to what it is that your heart sings for, you know.
Domo Wells: Thank you.
Joseph Fordham: I'm just curious if that kind of taps into what you were feeling when you a DJ and you're doing this for a period of time and then you kind of, even though you're saying I shouldn't be doing this, I shouldn't be setting up a company and this is all a bad idea, but you're doing it anyway, do you subscribe to the fact that it could be something completely out of your control that is just... forcing you that way and you're just basically the vehicle that's basically driving it. ⁓ Do you believe in the divine and spiritual? ⁓ Before we go, Tomo, can I talk to you about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in five minutes?
Domo Wells: You're trying expose me right now. ⁓ Yeah ⁓ Great interview. Great interview. Great interview.
Joseph Fordham: Five months I've waited for this. Five months I've been waiting to get you into this corner, back you into this little...
Domo Wells: Okay, and then that was funny because like yeah, I do Yeah, I believe there's a Sky Daddy, you know?
Joseph Fordham: you Yeah, yeah, that's one of the best ways I've heard it described.
Domo Wells: ⁓ it's so funny. Like anytime it doesn't matter if it's like even when it's derogatory is still funny. It's funny. It's always funny. I yeah, it's yeah, it's fucking hilarious. It's always funny and I'm never offended because also like your relationship with like spirituality is your own. Like also, you know, watching people try to impress that shit on others is so weird. Like, bro, just like, you know,
Joseph Fordham: Yeah. Was that one of your t-shirts that you made with like the colloquialisms on it back in the days? Yeah.
Domo Wells: It's okay everybody. I definitely feel like, you know, honoring intuition, there's a spiritual frequency in relationship to that. And I'm gonna leave it there. You know, I don't think there's been any time where...
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're tuned into Sky Daddy FM, this is Dom Iwells cheering him from the Pacific coast.
Domo Wells: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, don't get me- don't get me struck down, Joseph, damn.
Joseph Fordham: Hey, should we talk about soccer for five minutes actually? Yeah, this is the way these sometimes go sometimes we don't even get onto it. It's the football podcast. It isn't about football at all. Do you like it?
Domo Wells: We're like, like two seconds. So this is your side job, you're a comedian. No, I like it, I love it. It's so fun. Yeah, you know, we're locked in at this point, it'd be crazy, we're like, fucking hate soccer, bro, this shit sucks.
Joseph Fordham: Hahaha That's a relief because you're kind of stuck with it now you've kind of... Yeah
Domo Wells: I think it's fun. I think it's fun. I think it's actually more fun than a lot of team sports because like the way people turn up in the stadiums is nuts. Like it's actually insane. I love how they like the fan sections were coordinate those huge banners or even like the teams that stand on their political messages and let their fans express that during the games. Like it's wild, you know, like there's like a real ⁓ familiarity there and like relationship there that I can understand. So I really appreciate like that level of community around the sport. ⁓ I think that I got pulled into it in two different ways. And I talked about this in one that was like kind of embarrassing because when I was a kid, my introduction to soccer was through Victoria Beckham. And it was largely because of the way she dressed. And obviously after she married David, like when she would wear like England's gear and stuff and she would get those shirts chopped up and be making them like hyper feminine, And so I was really into that aesthetic of it because I hadn't seen it done that way. And then I think, you know, when I was much older, because it wasn't necessarily something that was particularly prominent in my community, like.
Joseph Fordham: Hmm.
Domo Wells: As a young black kid growing up just outside of DC, PG County, ⁓ soccer wasn't that present. And I think in America in general, like it's an understated sport up until now, which is crazy because it's obviously popular everywhere else. But I probably got back into it in my early 20s because I used to be the culture ambassador for DC United, which is our men's team. And... That kind of like brought me back into it through the MLS originally because I would be spending a lot of time with them at their games and like just, ⁓ you know, trying to bring kind of awareness to that team and relatively through the community that I was part of into that team. ⁓ But coming into it now is like totally different, like a completely different relationship partially just because like the level of ⁓ how these women were so underserved, you know? And so I have like a different feeling about it all because I'm just determined to be part of what gets them where they need to go. But yeah, those are probably like my main points of reference.
Joseph Fordham: How does it feel to be a part of the wider story, I guess? You've got that goal, that's your mission, you're kind of, guess, you're going to unavoidably change the way the game is seen in some way and bring people into it because of your influence. How do you feel about that kind of impact on its legacy? I do serious questions too.
Domo Wells: I am just happy to be helping at the end of the day. I don't try to, I'm trying not to center myself in it too much, because it's not about me. And so I think I just am happy that these women see themselves in the work, the teams and leagues appreciate it, and the fans want to see it continue. think as long as those feelings are there, then my work should continue. If there ever were a time where that dissipated, then it would change maybe. But I think I'm just glad that it's serving. in multiple ways other than just like my own personal fulfillment and enjoyment because when I started Dead Dirt we weren't in relationship to sports yet and it felt like something was missing. Now it feels like ⁓ we're exactly where we're supposed to be. We're serving our purpose and how we need to be of service. So I think as long as it's doing that then we're doing a good job.
Joseph Fordham: How does that work? How has that kind of paid you back in terms of ⁓ well-being? guess would be the way to... But have you noticed that? Has there been any kind of... Not in monetary terms. I know you've got those bills to pay, but have you felt that kind of... Because you're...
Domo Wells: I don't work for free, Joseph!
Joseph Fordham: of service as you say and you see the impact it's having. Does that then in turn give you a sense of fulfilment or excitement of both?
Domo Wells: Yeah, I mean, I'm always happy when this stuff sells out. You know, that's always good news for me. So, I think...
Joseph Fordham: Yeah. Yeah.
Domo Wells: monetary-wise like we're at the point now where there's so much inbound that I have to say no to stuff, you know, like I can't do everything Which is I think a good place to be so I'm just super grateful from being honest. I'm super grateful It was not something I necessarily expected or was anticipating I absolutely thought at the beginning of last year that we were gonna have to keep like banging down doors and convincing people that You know, we are worthy of doing the work and to work with us. ⁓ but luckily Luckily, thankfully, you know, league, the National Women's Soccer League, was ready to, you know, take some risk on us. Like, I think our big exercise was doing Complex Con with them. Are you familiar with Complex Con?
Joseph Fordham: No.
Domo Wells: So it's kind of like a huge trade show of sorts, but also with the concert, you know, like they have big music performances. It's it's build pretty big. All the major brands show up there. Nike does a big exercise. And then there's like a bunch of other brands that essentially like do pop up boosts for a weekend. ⁓ The last this last year, maybe the last two years, they've been doing it in Vegas. ⁓ And so it's a huge exercise. It's very expensive. but there's a ton of people there. It's a great place to get some visibility, especially in the streetwear market because Complex Magazine, familiar with Complex Magazine though, right? So this is their thing. Like Complex Con is their thing. and they do them, yeah, they do them in different countries and all the time. it's a huge thing. And so even that was like a huge exercise of like faith and trust where I said like launch our...
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah. Right. ⁓ the clue was there all along.
Domo Wells: you know, all teams capsule with because it's not expensive to do. And they kind of came in like, yeah, we're going to sponsor this thing with you. And we really care about being positioned in this way. So wait, did I answer your question? I feel like I keep like veering off.
Joseph Fordham: No, yeah, absolutely. This is all pretty fresh, right? This is what this launched in January, was it? Ever got that right? Of this year?
Domo Wells: So technically we launched it in November, cause that's when we did the preview at ComplexCon last fall. That was right before the end of the season. And then we released the capsule in February, early Feb. Cause like we weren't, we weren't selling anything at the preview. We were just showing it. And then yeah, we followed up with the full release.
Joseph Fordham: All right, okay, yeah. So it's pretty early doors in that respect. Is it too soon to be thinking further ahead in how this evolves? Or are you just kind of basking in the...
Domo Wells: ⁓ yeah, mean there's plenty of teams and leagues all over the world so we're gonna see where it takes us, you know?
Joseph Fordham: That's true, yeah. Okay. Wink, wink. I like that little, this time next week on No Place Like Home. Here we go. Love that. I mean, it's a really fascinating collaboration to see play out, guess. mean, it does...
Domo Wells: Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: change things I guess and opens up lot of doors for other people, other brands I guess, ⁓ other different partnerships that you don't even think about yet. I this does really kind of move the needle in that way so I guess that brings us nicely back to Donald Byrd and how you are arguably an innovator in your own medium.
Domo Wells: If you say so, Joseph. Okay. Thank you.
Joseph Fordham: I'll say so. I'll put that on the record. I'll say so. Listen, I'm really conscious of time and I know you must have church soon because I know I have. So we should probably wrap this up. And I've got bed in 30 minutes. I'm going to bed in 30 minutes because I'm... No, that's fine. That's fine. It's absolutely fine. I can listen to...
Domo Wells: People are gonna think you're serious. You better edit this, okay? Gonna go over their heads. They're gonna think this is religious propaganda, Joseph
Joseph Fordham: Just working through the ear waves there. Just two compliments before I go. your skin is exceptional. I can tell through a pixelated screen that you've got some mad routine going on over there. I don't know what it is. It's like porcelain. Skin like porcelain over there, don't it? Yeah. ⁓
Domo Wells: Thanks so much. I've been working on it. Ew. Period. Thank you. My exhibition would love to hear that because she dragged me the last time I was there. Dragged me. This is a word to everyone. Don't overuse the retinol, people. Okay? That's my one warning to everyone. I was tearing my skin up. When skin was all dry, she was like, girl, your face look like the Sahara Desert. What is going on?
Joseph Fordham: Hehehehehe
Domo Wells: And so I to make some adjustments. So thank you so much. Appreciate that.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, I can see that all the way from over here. And finally that accent, arguably the coolest accent in 106 episodes. congratulations on that award as well. That's two awards, two unique awards to go with what...
Domo Wells: ⁓ my god, I didn't even know how to do that. You know, it's not the shittiest American accent, you know?
Joseph Fordham: No, it's a good one. I know you've got husband and I've got a partner. This is not an attempt at some kind of long distance relationship. Just credit where it's due.
Domo Wells: Yeah. No worries, no one's coming to beat you up, Joseph. It's okay.
Joseph Fordham: Thank you. Domo thanks so much for this. I really appreciate it. I'm really glad we got to do that. Yeah, I appreciate the flexibility. good. I'll keep that bit and that's my social clip right there.
Domo Wells: This is the best interview I have had. Wonderful. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: Take care, thanks again so much, I really enjoyed it. I knew I would, I had a feeling. care, bye bye.
Domo Wells: I'm good, how are you? ⁓
Joseph Fordham: Very good, very good. Very grateful as well that you managed to shift this around a little bit. Thank you. How's your day going over there?
Domo Wells: No, no problem. So far so good, a little slow, but we're in the middle of rollout, so we had our second piece of content go up this morning, so I've just been watching that.
Joseph Fordham: All go, all go. I imagine you're wearing a lot of different hats whilst all this goes on,
Domo Wells: Always, always, always. I'm on the whole team some days.
Joseph Fordham: There's a famous sitcom over here called Little Britain, don't know if you've ever heard of it, but there's a sketch where the character writes the theme tune, sings the theme tune, what was I just going to think? That'll be you, yep.
Domo Wells: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You've seen that where it's like a team meeting and then it's just like clones of yourselves. Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: Okay, take one. Domo Wells is a creative director and founder of LA based sports apparel and design company, Dead Dirt. She shares her journey from childhood sketches and cutting up Barbie clothes to designing groundbreaking apparel for NWSL, revealing how self-confidence and a fearless desire to challenge the status quo fueled her evolution. Perfect, yeah I love that. Also very grateful that we've managed to get this in. I know that you've got a lot going on, especially since the Dead Dirt NWSL collaboration kicked off and yeah this is something I've been very keen to get in and I'm very grateful that we could do that so thank you.
Domo Wells: I appreciate the patience, I know this was a long time in the making so...
Joseph Fordham: ⁓ no, not so... and you're looking remarkably fresh for somebody that emailed me at 2 in the morning PT time, right? Drawing from her streetwear roots, experiences as a touring DJ, and a deep passion for regional culture, Domo developed a distinctive style that has helped craft authentic, impactful identities. There's also a mini skincare tutorial thrown in there. If you're an aspiring designer or entrepreneur, this episode is your blueprint for following your purpose and redefining what's possible. Enjoy.
Domo Wells: I'm a night owl and two of my editors are in Europe. So the combination of that and ⁓ one of my vendors is also in Asia. when we're, you know, by the time we're reaching the night, it's the beginning of their day. You know, I'm typically up pretty late at night. My husband hates it, but.
Joseph Fordham: Running on empty maybe, I don't know. I've got twins and I struggle to stay up past 9 o'clock. So fair play. Yeah, 18 months old, give or take. yeah, yeah. Being awake at 2am, that's just a dream. That's just a dream for me. Those were the days. Yeah, those were the days.
Domo Wells: ⁓ my gosh, how old are they? Are they like babies? Yeah, your life is changed. It's okay, I'm sure it's worth the sacrifice.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. We'll get on to the NWSL, I'm sure, at some point and all of the build up to that and where you are now. What I would love to do first, if you don't mind, is to kind of roll it right back and talk about what your creative output looked like. your formative years and then maybe in some sort of linear way we'll make it back to here who knows
Domo Wells: Nobody wants to hear about that. Oh man, formative years, mean, how far you wanna go, bro? Like, mm.
Joseph Fordham: What was your earliest creative leaning, I guess? What were you drawn to as a kid? Was it fashion immediately? Was it...
Domo Wells: It was pretty, I don't know if I even understood it as fashion. Like when I was a little girl, I used to have a hard time with my Barbie's clothes. So I was, which sounds funny. It sounds like a lot funnier right now just because I'm actually doing this, but I used to really hate. the Barbie clothes that were offered because I think when I was a little tiny girl, they were just super girly or just really, ⁓ the aesthetic was pretty statically pink flowers and, ⁓ you know, just shit I didn't like. And so I was typically cutting up like t-shirts and old fabric my mom might let me have to make them new clothes. ⁓ I remember like, I would put my Barbies in my roller skate. instead of in the Barbie card that my dad had bought me because it was pink and it like pissed me off. like, why can't we, you know, I think I want to paint it green or something. And my dad was like, no, it's too expensive. Like I'm not painting it green. So I just like refused to use it. I will put my Barbie in my roller skate cause it was black and white. Which I don't think I understood that back then. Yeah. Like I'm just like, I need something more neutral, bro. Like this hot pink is not doing it for me.
Joseph Fordham: It's like a Hell's Angel.
Domo Wells: So, you know.
Joseph Fordham: that was that was this what is it what does that look like inform some sort of study pathway for you as you kind of progress through your teens into adulthood or is this like a is it more of a
Domo Wells: You know, there was a time where I really wished that it had, you know, the interest had always been there, but I don't think that my family quite understood the pathways of a designer at the time. And so there weren't a lot of people around me who were equipped to kind of point me in a direction of that. And so I definitely didn't dive into it in a way that felt like, oh, this could be my job more than I would do it in ways that were. you know, that felt kind of, that's not really true. Actually in high school, I had like a streetwear brand that was called Click. I forget about it all the time, but it's also so embarrassing. was like, junior and senior year, I did have like a brand that I kind of had started. And it was like a breakout from these guys that I met in like 10th grade that worked at like a screen printing shop in Maryland and their brand was called Fatboy D.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah.
Domo Wells: And I think I had answered some call to like model or one of them had asked me to like model or something stupid. And then they were contemplating starting a women's like arm of their brand Fatboy D. And however it came up, like, you know, I got brought into that and I ultimately ended up designing the majority of that stuff and kind of working with them for a couple of years. it was fun. Like it was a fun kind of like, I think start into it, but it wasn't. something that I understood back then again, is something that I could do for real, just because there was nobody else really around to kind of propel me past that point. But I would dabble absolutely. Like I worked in retail as a teenager to just feed my clothes fashion addiction back then. Like I would literally just like work in that store so I could buy clothes again. Like they knew that half of the, I think half of the kids that worked there were doing that, were just working to buy clothes.
Joseph Fordham: Mm-hmm.
Domo Wells: So that probably was like my early days with it. I did want to go to design school. It was so expensive, you know, and here in the States, it's not like, you know, offered like it is in other countries where you could just like go to design school. So was like super expensive. I didn't come from a lot of privilege. And again, like people just didn't quite get it. So ⁓ I did not do that outright. It just became something I dabbled in. you know, in my twenties through like other ways. And then it kind of resurfaced once I started to DJ because I found myself in places like festivals and big stages where, you know, I appreciated a costume for those moments. So I would make a lot of my own stuff. And there's absolutely some ridiculous outfits in that era, a hundred percent, but it would find its way through. wherever I was, you know, whatever I was doing.
Joseph Fordham: Was it a little jarring to start making clothes in adult sizes when you worked with these fat boy D guys jumping from the Barbie dolls up to adult sizes? Just... Wait a minute, this doesn't fit!
Domo Wells: You know, I don't think that was considered, you know, considered it until now, like at all. But yeah, I don't know. It was, you know, I came up in the era of like streetwear that was like. LRG and obviously Stussy's always been relevant in that conversation. like, ⁓ and then there weren't that many women's brands, know, there's like, there were like a ton of men's brands. And I remember I used to work for this sneaker boutique. This is kind of at the cusp of streetwear before it kind of turned a mainstream corner. Cause I was like 17. ⁓ And In those boutiques, it would be mostly men's. There'd be these tiny little corners for women's, and then it would be these three or four brands, Hells Belles, Married to the Mob. occasionally maybe we would get a women's 10 deep drop. I don't know if you're familiar with 10 deep, but I was a 10 deep Hells Belles, babe girl. And I used to get frustrated that there weren't more women's options.
Joseph Fordham: No.
Domo Wells: And so I think that was part of when I was in high school, what kind of compelled me to work with a guy. Cause I was like, we need more options and things that kind of like relate to the group of girls that I'm from. So I don't know, it didn't feel, it didn't really feel connected. I don't think I ever put it together. You know, when I was a little girl until when I was in high school, I think I was just following, you know, the things that interest me at a given. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: Following the scent, yeah, following the scent so to speak. I'm finding this really interesting because going back to what you said, wasn't that kind of, through your background, wasn't that pathway laid out. So I'm assuming you mean like working class background. It's more like just kind of finish school, get a job. And that's the kind of the way you roll down. The creative of the arts is not necessarily something that is encouraged or pursued. That would be true of my background as well. but you're kind of ignoring that and following your nose. Yeah, but there was something even then when you're in high school that you felt that there was something missing that was available, that should be available to you. you've, I guess, heeded that call to make it, for it to be you that would fill that gap. So that speaks to me as some kind of... as level of self-confidence and maybe a knowing even though you didn't know that that was eventually the way that you would be going.
Domo Wells: Yeah, I mean.
Joseph Fordham: what was it that was keeping you from kind of turning your back on that kind of thing?
Domo Wells: Let's say confidence in this era came later. You know, there's more of a knowing or intuitiveness about it or just like a pull energetically to move towards the thing than there was confidence at the onset. I think even with my younger days, I don't remember. so much because I don't have to think about this stuff. It was just buried so far down in my brain because it feels so embarrassing now. But like I had that line as a teenager and then I want to say somewhere in my like early 20s I had another brand that I made but I did it in secret. And it was called, it was under the name or the moniker Cockrave, which the street I grew up on. And it was essentially a series of just really basic screen printed t-shirts that had like these colloquialism phrases that we used in the city I'm from. And that. brand also. remember I was ⁓ anonymous behind it for a while because women just get treated differently in fashion or anywhere, you know, but especially in streetwear, especially back then with such a male-led space. And I mean, it still is. ⁓ And so it's really a... difficult I think for sometimes a brand to cut through if there's a woman at the head of it. So even with that brand, I kind of forgot this too, but even with that brand, I stood behind it pretty quietly at first. And then I think I stepped in front of it like a while later after we had like some huge success moments, like a couple of like what felt viral back then in DC. And so. Yeah, I think it's just always been this knowing I can't quite get away from it. know, like I'll have an idea and I feel compelled to execute it. And so I just do it without necessarily a marriage to the concept of like, I have to do this forever or it is forever. It's just, this is my idea. I need to just do it, you know? And that's kind of how it's felt at every point, you know, whenever I'm making anything related to fashion. It's just like, no, I just feel really strong about executing this idea. So we have to do it.
Joseph Fordham: like an itch to scratch so to speak and then you can move on to the next the next idea.
Domo Wells: Yeah, I think now we're just in the sum of all of those experiences and approaching it with a different lens because I'm a big girl now and have experienced so many things. So I can shape it a lot differently and kind of have an understanding of the lay of the land a bit more than I did back then. I'm just knowing where my opportunities lie. So I think this time around with that dirt, ⁓ man, I didn't start with confidence. It was just a a knowing and a ⁓ compelling sense to execute and do. And then ⁓ the confidence absolutely came later, I think.
Joseph Fordham: I guess once the data is there that it's kind of, it's working, right? The confidence goes, yeah, yeah. ⁓
Domo Wells: Yeah, it's working. It's working and it's for somebody other than myself. Because I think it's like I think I feel more purposeful in the work in any work that I do when it's not just about me. Like, of course, it's fulfilling to me and I need it to be that. But it's also more fulfilling when it's not just about me. So I think the way women's sports has showed up has been so. purposeful and so aligned because it's for them. know, like they need it too. They need the stories told and they need better shit. So I'm like, you know, bet that's easy for me, you know, to, you know, I'm hitting multiple birds with one stone at that point. So it just made me feel good about what I was doing. And then I started to understand, was like, okay, and I can orient and build a foundation around a real business, you know, that can.
Joseph Fordham: You
Domo Wells: serve many different people. So it's been, it's been good.
Joseph Fordham: So with that in mind, how does the balance work between the taste and style that you've developed over the years? ⁓ How does it work aligning that with something so established as NWSL ⁓ and putting your stamp on that without diluting down what... NWSL is and what it means to people. Is there a lot of compromise that has to come from your artistic output in that?
Domo Wells: You know, that's a good question. think luckily the NWSL, you know, is, they're absolutely establishing like their own identity. I do think that they're early in that process of, you know, completely even, I think putting a fork in who they are. And there's a lot of ways to interact. iterate that because that umbrella is wide and just getting wider as they add more teams in regions. And I think it's really, to me, it's really important. Like when I work with these teams to come in with the intention of wanting to inject the nuance of those regional cultures into the work that we do. ⁓ And so as much as it's about like, yeah, I want to make it trendy and cool or not even trendy. I think I just want to make it cool. you know, like, just want to make it cool and low key, like something that feels timeless to this moment that even if the brand of these teams change their colors or their crests or whatever, the things that we make now will still matter to you or they'll still like hold significance years from now. Like I'm trying to help strengthen that heritage with the work that I do. So. I don't think it's an easy thing per se, more than there has to be just an innate understanding and want to do that each time. It doesn't mean that like we hit it 10 out of 10, but I think people completely understand like how we show up at this point and that we're not gonna slapstick a logo on a t-shirt and take, you know, $50 from you for some bullshit that's gonna turn into a wash rag a couple of weeks from now. I want it to be things that people enjoy no matter if they're fans or not, you know, to be honest. And so I've kind of designed from that scope of like trying to balance culture and heritage while also trying to appeal to this existing audience and a new one. So there's no science to it. You know, I can't give away at all because you know, you got to pay me for that Joseph, but.
Joseph Fordham: you Do you feel like, is there a weight that comes with that, know, designing for a space that hasn't necessarily had this kind of care and attention before? Do you feel like they're the sense of responsibility?
Domo Wells: ⁓ Yes, a little bit. There's like, there's like a, there feels like a sense of responsibility because I want to do it right. You know, I think if I'm doing it right, then people do naturally like see themselves in the work or will gravitate to it. And so I think as we've continued that has happened. And so it lets me know that we're on the right path. ⁓ But it, does. I think I only understand it when I'm like out in the world with people.
Joseph Fordham: Or freedom, it might be there's a freedom to it.
Domo Wells: and then they're telling me how something made them feel. And I have no concept of that. You know, I design in a bubble, in a vacuum, and I don't know how people feel until it comes out and it's done already. And half of the time I think I'm just... I'm not trying to absorb too much of the outside noise, but I do appreciate when somebody tells me how impactful something was. ⁓ And of course, like I see the Reddit thread sometimes when people are like complaining about something, but I also see when they're, you know, enjoying something too. So ⁓ it's tricky, you know, it's a tricky thing as far as like pressure is concerned or the weight, but I do feel like a responsibility maybe to like, to to do it right, to do it with good intentions and to try my best to like represent these teams and these players too. You know, like I think that's a huge part of it for me is like I want very much for this league, its teams and its players to be household names. And I don't think you do that through shallow, you know, marketing exercises and shit. I think you have to be trying to. tell a story that makes sense for this community that literally just makes them show up every time because they see themselves in it, not because they feel marketed to or sold to. Like I'm not really trying to sell you shit for real. I'm not really trying to do that. I'm trying to just welcome you into this world and you know, see who wants to be here or not and it's for them. You know, like it's not, I don't approach our rollouts from a standard like, ⁓ this is what the marketing. Strategy should be even though I know that's what it is and it's got to look like that for the business of those teams But for me like I'm I'm always trying to inject like the realness of it and like even like little side quests to it and things that don't feel like so dead center, you know, I Hope that answers your question
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah, absolutely does. Yeah, I'm just guessing we can backtrack slightly to the Reddit threads and I'm curious ⁓ as a creative how you, I guess, maintain the status quo or a positive mindset when you see some negative comments about something that you've put your heart into. Because the compliments are easy to...
Domo Wells: Okay. It's a bit of a smack on your ego when people are like upset about something but I'll say I'm glad that I was able to start with a team and work with a team and kind of learn and observe through that work first because sports is just like that in general. You know, it's probably one of like the few professions where Every time you show up, the people are going to give you a progress report, a performance review. They're going to tell you how shit you were or how good you played. And every time, you know, in real time, while the game is on, when the game is over, it's actually so stressful. I'm like to be an athlete is actually like very, very stressful because as much as the people will be right there with you when you're winning, they will be on your ass when you're losing too. And so for that,
Joseph Fordham: Yeah.
Domo Wells: I think I'm already thrown into that by way of this industry and the way it operates. So I can't really feel the way when it gets directed at me too, because that is what this is. I've also had to accept that what I make is not for everybody. And that's totally fine. That's not the point. If I made it for everyone, it would be shit probably, you know? And so.
Joseph Fordham: there.
Domo Wells: If it's not for you, that's totally fine. I think the only thing that kind of irks me a little bit is like, just because something isn't for you doesn't make it shit. And so I kind of see a lot of that sometimes where people are like really asserting how they personally hate a thing. listen, I live in a world of creativity and there's plenty of things that I personally enjoy. And there's also plenty of things that I will see and go, hmm, I don't like that personally. But I understand that that's for somebody. It's just not for me. So I don't feel. Yeah, yeah. It's like, if sometimes you can just tell like people just want to talk shit or maybe they're miserable, whatever. That's none of my business. Cause at the end of the day, if the thing is sold out, I don't care. I don't care. Now, if I'm getting a fury of those messages,
Joseph Fordham: Let me just tell them I don't like this. One second while I just take that. Yeah.
Domo Wells: about something, then maybe I'll care, I'll pay attention. It's like, ⁓ okay, maybe there's something wrong here. I do need to pay attention to it. But if it's just people, you know, kicking it on it, it's like, I don't care. I have to like let it roll off of me. And thankfully I've been through enough training in the city I'm from. I think we come out the womb, you know, cracking on people, making jokes and doing all that. So my skin is already pretty thick, I think. yeah.
Joseph Fordham: DC right? Is it DC? I spent two weeks in DC about 15 years ago in the midst of winter. So yeah, you're made of, it was freezing, you're made of stuff. I spent a couple of nights out in, Adams Morgan was it? Is that where the, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was drinking some sort of shot out of the ketchup squeezes, know, they just kept filling up these things. was a lost night.
Domo Wells: ⁓ yeah, you were having a time.
Joseph Fordham: maybe I lost a couple of nights. Yeah, I got a good intro to the town there.
Domo Wells: Yeah. Adam's Morgan. Yeah, did you go to the diner on Adam's Morgan? Or...
Joseph Fordham: It was some sort of dive bar, was some sort of dive bar there, like a wonky pool.
Domo Wells: The biggest one is Morgan's, is it Morgan's Organ? Something like that, I forget the name of it, but it had a fun little sign out front of it that looks kind of like a burlesque girl or something, I forget. But, okay.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah. I forget the name but I knew as soon as I walked in that it was going to end badly for me that night. It just had that smell in the air, you But you know, you're from there, you know. Little English boy like me walking in, I didn't stand a chance. I didn't stand a chance in there.
Domo Wells: HAHAHA Yeah, yeah. ⁓ my god. As long as there's no evidence, Joseph, you're good.
Joseph Fordham: No, it's just at the dawn of Instagram. think that account doesn't even exist anymore. This is fine. Back when everyone was really using filters, know, really putting that... Yeah.
Domo Wells: That's in all of our favor. None of us need to be from that.
Joseph Fordham: No, no I'm grateful for that. You touched on like the influence or the things that you enjoy outside of fashion that you appreciate or you don't appreciate but you understand the angles they come from and whatnot. What mediums do you enjoy I guess and where do you draw inspiration?
Domo Wells: ⁓ huh. Hmmmm You know, I obviously like love music. ⁓ And I think I appreciate the artists within that space that can world build around what they make. ⁓ You know, I spent years, 10 years as a DJ and... and working in music professionally. was a foundation of experience for everything that I do right now. So I think music is probably a huge part of that. Spending a lot of time touring, concerts, shows, festivals, all that. So I really, really do particularly love music, the crosshair of music. ⁓ Medium-wise, I mean... I really just like to observe things in real life. Like there's no specific thing. Like I like to just be out in the world and kind of observing people and things. Like those are what interests me the most probably. Learning about new cultures is probably really important for me, partially because of my music work. Like when you go to New Orleans, being able to connect with that audience because you know that they listen to bounce music. You know about bounce music, Joseph? What you know about bounce music?
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah, yeah. couldn't, I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I am aware of it.
Domo Wells: Okay. Okay. So like that, you know, and then the culture around bounce music. What does that look and feel like, you know, how do those people dress? You know, what does it, you know, what are the sub genres within that? And then you can do that in any place, you know, you can, then you can go to the Bay area and get into high fee music. And then there's a culture around. And so I think like, I really like to understand that, especially from like communities and music that are, that are innately rooted in like black culture and black community. Like that to me is... ⁓ really fulfilling to me to understand because they're all connected in my opinion and I think a lot of people is like there's overlap between all of those musical sub genres so whether it's like the Hi-fi and the Bay, New Orleans Bounce or DC's Go Go music or Chicago House music, Baltimore Jersey Club music like they're all kind of part of the same like you know I think I don't know if phenotype is the right word to describe it, but they're all to me like their cousins, their family. So I like to absorb things from that perspective of like intersectional, like creative things that kind of like surround each other because what is music without fashion? know, what's fashion without music? And then I think how does that fall in other places? It's usually like. where a lot of my inspiration is drawn. Because I grew up in DC, I grew up in GoGo music. I was at the GoGo every weekend. The culture has changed a lot, the experience of it is not quite the same as it was when we were kids, just because it was criminalized and moved out of DC. There was a lot of political, racist, gentrification bullshit with that. And I think how I exist adjacent to that, I'm a product of it. And it's one of those things that... doesn't get the credit it deserves. It doesn't get the visibility it deserves either because of the regionality of it all and the fact that it never quite went national. So the influence of DC doesn't. doesn't get the light it deserves. I think that was a big factor in like my DJ work as well as this one now. Like how I show it with Washington Spirit was driven largely by the fact that I want people to know that DC has its own culture that is not about the transplants that come into the city or the monuments or the stereotypical things. There's more to us. And I think that that exact notion exists for a lot of other cities and places that are considered like secondary markets. So a lot of my influence, a lot of like things that I draw from are really like rooted in that.
Joseph Fordham: How does that kind of experience shape you do you think? Like being a part of a scene like that that is essentially driven out? But I guess the experiences that happen within it are uniting with the people that you're there with, know, ⁓ they're bond building and yeah I'm just curious in how you think living through something like that as short-lived as it may be. influences you as a person down the line.
Domo Wells: think for me it just puts a fire under my ass a little bit more probably ⁓ because if I don't see us represented I don't... I'm not really of the mind to keep complaining about it. like, what are we gonna do? Who's gonna do something about it? I think it's so easy to just complain and then sit back and do nothing and then nothing changes. So what's the point of that? That's pretty cyclical. And so I think ⁓ it just really puts a fire under my ass. And as I realized that we're not the only ones that kind of don't get that shine, it just emboldens me to wanna do it for more people. So there's layers to that regional. cultural work that I think is always underlying in anything that I do because I typically care about like that secondary market or that underdog who I know is doing the work. Like there was a period of time like maybe like a couple years ago where we were seeing a huge uptick and I think we're still in it a bit like these remixes that you might see on TikTok of mainstream songs that are like a club remix but they're really Jersey Club a Baltimore Club remix and what we were starting to see was like, you know producers who are not from those cities You know sampling the sound and making similar beats But then the people who were from those places weren't getting any credit weren't being pulled in to those same moments or conversations and that matters, know, and I know that matters for the sake of like when you look at big DJs who are able to kind of have those big collaborations with the mainstream artists for whatever dance song they made but oftentimes like a genre that's rooted in a black community, they don't get the same moment. They might not get the same level of collaboration or respect. And it's really unfair. And it's part of this like systemic thing that's like, man, Joseph will be on the phone for another hour if I get into the politics of that. But it's a it puts a fire under your ass, you know, to like take control of how your story gets told and to own it and to have autonomy over it. I think that's what it did for me. Coming from DC, I've always felt like, you know, we were misunderstood. You go to New York and then people call us country or you go to different parts of the world and there wasn't always this like understanding or respect for us. And I think, you know, a lot of people are plagued by that. A lot of... regional cultures don't get the love that they deserve. And so I think for most of us, it puts a fire into your ass.
Joseph Fordham: It's like a touch of the activist about you I'm picking up. Like going back to the teens, yeah you know and you're like okay this isn't represented in fashion here so I'm just gonna make that and then there's this happening here and you're like okay yeah this is putting a fire up your arse to do something about that and yeah you assume the responsibility to make something happen or something change. I'm wondering which one of your parents is responsible for this edge.
Domo Wells: Look.
Joseph Fordham: that you're carrying here. It's one of them.
Domo Wells: I don't know. I might put it on the boys I grew up with more than my parents. I think I was definitely raised by a community with some specific ways of life that are probably still influencing me now.
Joseph Fordham: Right, yeah, yeah. Is that a way of life that's maybe, does that exist now do you think? Something I've been kind of just mulling around with lately is that, I don't know, that we live in such a, so social media is just omnipresent. know, I think... ⁓ I'm going to show my age a little bit now but I've been thinking back to a trip to Thailand 20 years ago, I was 21. I was the other side of the world. There was no smartphones, maybe a year or so down the line they were, no social media. It felt like I was on the other side of the world. It looked like I was on the other side of the world. you go to the other side of the world and it's just like avocados on toast as one basic example you can get that in this seaside town that I live in or can go to Bangkok and it'll be the same thing everything's kind of like you see on Instagram is the same thing everyone's having a kind of similar experience maybe now that's you know in generations down and I'm curious if you think that the the culture that shaped you if it does it exist now and could we see more people like you coming up or are those days done?
Domo Wells: You know, I think the generation I came up with, I won't say that it's completely non-existent, but the scene that I came from... might be just because it, as I was mentioning earlier about how GoGo Music got criminalized in DC in the early 2000s. And so that is significant because it changed the youth's experience with GoGo Music, ⁓ which means like they didn't have access to it in the same way that I did as a teenager or as a kid. ⁓ It was almost as if you think about your high school band, how every high school had maybe their own bands or whatever that might perform at dances or perform at school functions or things like that. That used to be ever-present. It's like go-go music and go-go bands where everybody kind of had their own generation of it because... you know, the youth were injecting their influences into it. And so like even within go-go music, there's sub genres. And so those sub genres are very much attached to the generational shift of whatever's influencing music at that time. And so I would say this current generation did not have the same relationship to it because it was banned from their schools. There were not youth like go-gos or dancers outside of their schools. anymore for that reason. And then even, you know, going into young adulthood. So that also means like, they're not making it. You feel me? They're not like, they're not, they're not seeing it and they're not making it. So that means like, their relationship to it is through their older, their, their parents or like their older family members who they were the last ones who were able to be as hands on with it. And so I would say like socially, that part of the culture in DC.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah.
Domo Wells: looks and feels very different. I do see people still iterating it, but they're definitely from that older generation. There's a handful, probably very small pool of young kids who are living in it or spending time with it. I do think people visit it. Like they will sample a sound and try to inject it. There's an artist right now, his name is Primo Rice. He is amazing in general. Like he's a rapper, but I have seen him recently, you know, try to inject. will not try but inject gogo music in a way that's very subtle. But I know it because I know the sounds, you know, but if you listen to it, you would, might not, it's not gonna register for you. You might just like it because it's a hip hop song, but, it's a good song, but I know the sample. I know the gogo song he's referencing. And so ⁓ the song is called TCB style and TCB is a gogo band. ⁓ And then he samples one of their records in that song. So I think like people are still, keeping it alive. Obviously, like the previous generations are still here. They're still living it and performing it, but they're getting older. And so my hope was even like people kind of, my hope is that there's this return to like a regional love of the things that are innately from your city in general, because the internet kind of flattened that. know, everybody got access to everything. And then there's kind of this generalization of a lot of things and there's not as much. you know, specific, especially as far as like that cultural element is concerned to an area anymore or even necessarily a respect. And so I do hope that there's a time where there's like a return to that in general, where there's just this innate love and, you know, innovation around like things that are innately like from a place. I feel like I got so far away from your question.
Joseph Fordham: Okay. No, that really struck a chord, didn't it? Something resonated with you there, you went in. And I think you really, yeah, I could tell that was really coming through. And I think you used the term, it flattened it, that's described it in a much better way than I could. Yeah, there's just a, everything's a little bit more generalized and the texture is taken out of local.
Domo Wells: Nah, I care about it. after.
Joseph Fordham: local communities and maybe the bottom falls out of it and we do see a return to that as an act of rebellion maybe of the kind of globalisation that we experience.
Domo Wells: I think what people forget, and this is again, like off on a tangent, but it's something I've been thinking a lot about recently just in my work in a general sense, but people, it's funny to me how much we, and I'm guilty of this, oftentimes will enjoy a thing, but then the moment it becomes a trend, we kind of hate it. However, trends are typically how we get like, innovation and spinoffs of like a sub subversion of anything. And so we kind of need that. You kind of need every era to recreate or or completely create a brand new trend so then they can have their relationship to the thing. And so it's really important because then out of that, you do get this handful of, you know, people who do elevate that thing or innovate it and that's like when you look at any like ⁓ I was reading this thing about ⁓ Donald Byrd once and he was like a classically trained musician I forget which instrument but or like a classically trained jazz musician and he was making jazz music for a long time but then he started experimenting with new sounds within jazz and he was calling it something else. I can't remember exactly what he was calling it, but it was like jazz, like hyphenated with something. And he got so much ridicule for it. And then he really was at the cusp of like disco and that funk kind of shift, but he was at the beginning of it. And so people weren't really understanding what he was doing. And because his original audience was jazz, they hated what he was making because they felt like he was disowning. you know, the genre he came on, but when in reality he was just part of a pioneer of a new genre. But you kind of like needed this influx of creators of people who were like experimenting in a trend where you actually get like real tight shit out of it based on this injection of like all of these people kind of creating in a new similar way. So I really been like spending time on that about how things really ⁓ innovate something brand new from something that was. And I don't think there's like a full understanding of how that happens for most people. So I actually do enjoy trends. I pay a lot of attention to them for that reason.
Joseph Fordham: There's a lot of bravery to that, do you think? Using Donald Byrd as an example. Yeah.
Domo Wells: Absolutely, have to be willing to abandon ship. You gotta abandon the thing you know or the thing that looks like it's working. Yeah, 100%.
Joseph Fordham: Where does that do, where do you think that kind of, I don't know if desire is the right word or even just the thought to do that, you know, because it is leaving the known to try something new that could completely fall on its face or it does change things forever and influences even more people than it could have done in your existing genre. Could that be something that's innate, is a calling that you respond to? or just a need for change, I don't know. Is that something that you feel yourself with your own work?
Domo Wells: Yeah, I think for a lot of creators it's just an innate feeling. There's just some compelling feeling to do something else more different your way, whatever the case may be. And I think it's all of our responsibilities in some shape or another to follow that until you figure out exactly how you're supposed to be existing in it. ⁓ And so yeah, for me, it absolutely was this internal knowing because I didn't want to do any of this shit. I don't want to any of it. I didn't want to start a brand. I didn't want to quit my job. I didn't want to do any of it because it just felt like a terrible idea. It's a bad idea. The economy is in the dumps.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah
Domo Wells: people are getting laid off everywhere. just felt like a bad idea. I this is a terrible idea, but I have to do it. Like, I don't know what's going to happen on the other side of this. And I think the last time I felt like this, it was when I had quit my job to start to DJ and then everything just kind of clicked and did well. So luckily I have been through this with myself to know that there's an, there's the other side and there's always more on the other side. So you kind of just do it anyway, despite like being scared or not being sure or. all of the things because there's more than what the people are offering to you. know, like there's more than what's being handed to you and you can absolutely like do what you want, make what you wanna make and figure out how to like build a life around that if you're determined to do that. And so I, yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: Are you familiar with The War of Art by Steven Pressfield? He's an American author and he's written some fiction related stuff but The War of Art is, I've only read it recently, it's regarded as one of best self-growth books going and he talks about resistance with a capital R.
Domo Wells: I'm not.
Joseph Fordham: that everybody feels it to some degree, but that everybody is born with something that they have to do. it's like kind of their responsibility to make that happen. And many people ⁓ live what he calls a shadow career. So it might be something that's just adjacent to what it is that your heart sings for, you know.
Domo Wells: Thank you.
Joseph Fordham: I'm just curious if that kind of taps into what you were feeling when you a DJ and you're doing this for a period of time and then you kind of, even though you're saying I shouldn't be doing this, I shouldn't be setting up a company and this is all a bad idea, but you're doing it anyway, do you subscribe to the fact that it could be something completely out of your control that is just... forcing you that way and you're just basically the vehicle that's basically driving it. ⁓ Do you believe in the divine and spiritual? ⁓ Before we go, Tomo, can I talk to you about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in five minutes?
Domo Wells: You're trying expose me right now. ⁓ Yeah ⁓ Great interview. Great interview. Great interview.
Joseph Fordham: Five months I've waited for this. Five months I've been waiting to get you into this corner, back you into this little...
Domo Wells: Okay, and then that was funny because like yeah, I do Yeah, I believe there's a Sky Daddy, you know?
Joseph Fordham: you Yeah, yeah, that's one of the best ways I've heard it described.
Domo Wells: ⁓ it's so funny. Like anytime it doesn't matter if it's like even when it's derogatory is still funny. It's funny. It's always funny. I yeah, it's yeah, it's fucking hilarious. It's always funny and I'm never offended because also like your relationship with like spirituality is your own. Like also, you know, watching people try to impress that shit on others is so weird. Like, bro, just like, you know,
Joseph Fordham: Yeah. Was that one of your t-shirts that you made with like the colloquialisms on it back in the days? Yeah.
Domo Wells: It's okay everybody. I definitely feel like, you know, honoring intuition, there's a spiritual frequency in relationship to that. And I'm gonna leave it there. You know, I don't think there's been any time where...
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're tuned into Sky Daddy FM, this is Dom Iwells cheering him from the Pacific coast.
Domo Wells: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, don't get me- don't get me struck down, Joseph, damn.
Joseph Fordham: Hey, should we talk about soccer for five minutes actually? Yeah, this is the way these sometimes go sometimes we don't even get onto it. It's the football podcast. It isn't about football at all. Do you like it?
Domo Wells: We're like, like two seconds. So this is your side job, you're a comedian. No, I like it, I love it. It's so fun. Yeah, you know, we're locked in at this point, it'd be crazy, we're like, fucking hate soccer, bro, this shit sucks.
Joseph Fordham: Hahaha That's a relief because you're kind of stuck with it now you've kind of... Yeah
Domo Wells: I think it's fun. I think it's fun. I think it's actually more fun than a lot of team sports because like the way people turn up in the stadiums is nuts. Like it's actually insane. I love how they like the fan sections were coordinate those huge banners or even like the teams that stand on their political messages and let their fans express that during the games. Like it's wild, you know, like there's like a real ⁓ familiarity there and like relationship there that I can understand. So I really appreciate like that level of community around the sport. ⁓ I think that I got pulled into it in two different ways. And I talked about this in one that was like kind of embarrassing because when I was a kid, my introduction to soccer was through Victoria Beckham. And it was largely because of the way she dressed. And obviously after she married David, like when she would wear like England's gear and stuff and she would get those shirts chopped up and be making them like hyper feminine, And so I was really into that aesthetic of it because I hadn't seen it done that way. And then I think, you know, when I was much older, because it wasn't necessarily something that was particularly prominent in my community, like.
Joseph Fordham: Hmm.
Domo Wells: As a young black kid growing up just outside of DC, PG County, ⁓ soccer wasn't that present. And I think in America in general, like it's an understated sport up until now, which is crazy because it's obviously popular everywhere else. But I probably got back into it in my early 20s because I used to be the culture ambassador for DC United, which is our men's team. And... That kind of like brought me back into it through the MLS originally because I would be spending a lot of time with them at their games and like just, ⁓ you know, trying to bring kind of awareness to that team and relatively through the community that I was part of into that team. ⁓ But coming into it now is like totally different, like a completely different relationship partially just because like the level of ⁓ how these women were so underserved, you know? And so I have like a different feeling about it all because I'm just determined to be part of what gets them where they need to go. But yeah, those are probably like my main points of reference.
Joseph Fordham: How does it feel to be a part of the wider story, I guess? You've got that goal, that's your mission, you're kind of, guess, you're going to unavoidably change the way the game is seen in some way and bring people into it because of your influence. How do you feel about that kind of impact on its legacy? I do serious questions too.
Domo Wells: I am just happy to be helping at the end of the day. I don't try to, I'm trying not to center myself in it too much, because it's not about me. And so I think I just am happy that these women see themselves in the work, the teams and leagues appreciate it, and the fans want to see it continue. think as long as those feelings are there, then my work should continue. If there ever were a time where that dissipated, then it would change maybe. But I think I'm just glad that it's serving. in multiple ways other than just like my own personal fulfillment and enjoyment because when I started Dead Dirt we weren't in relationship to sports yet and it felt like something was missing. Now it feels like ⁓ we're exactly where we're supposed to be. We're serving our purpose and how we need to be of service. So I think as long as it's doing that then we're doing a good job.
Joseph Fordham: How does that work? How has that kind of paid you back in terms of ⁓ well-being? guess would be the way to... But have you noticed that? Has there been any kind of... Not in monetary terms. I know you've got those bills to pay, but have you felt that kind of... Because you're...
Domo Wells: I don't work for free, Joseph!
Joseph Fordham: of service as you say and you see the impact it's having. Does that then in turn give you a sense of fulfilment or excitement of both?
Domo Wells: Yeah, I mean, I'm always happy when this stuff sells out. You know, that's always good news for me. So, I think...
Joseph Fordham: Yeah. Yeah.
Domo Wells: monetary-wise like we're at the point now where there's so much inbound that I have to say no to stuff, you know, like I can't do everything Which is I think a good place to be so I'm just super grateful from being honest. I'm super grateful It was not something I necessarily expected or was anticipating I absolutely thought at the beginning of last year that we were gonna have to keep like banging down doors and convincing people that You know, we are worthy of doing the work and to work with us. ⁓ but luckily Luckily, thankfully, you know, league, the National Women's Soccer League, was ready to, you know, take some risk on us. Like, I think our big exercise was doing Complex Con with them. Are you familiar with Complex Con?
Joseph Fordham: No.
Domo Wells: So it's kind of like a huge trade show of sorts, but also with the concert, you know, like they have big music performances. It's it's build pretty big. All the major brands show up there. Nike does a big exercise. And then there's like a bunch of other brands that essentially like do pop up boosts for a weekend. ⁓ The last this last year, maybe the last two years, they've been doing it in Vegas. ⁓ And so it's a huge exercise. It's very expensive. but there's a ton of people there. It's a great place to get some visibility, especially in the streetwear market because Complex Magazine, familiar with Complex Magazine though, right? So this is their thing. Like Complex Con is their thing. and they do them, yeah, they do them in different countries and all the time. it's a huge thing. And so even that was like a huge exercise of like faith and trust where I said like launch our...
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, yeah. Right. ⁓ the clue was there all along.
Domo Wells: you know, all teams capsule with because it's not expensive to do. And they kind of came in like, yeah, we're going to sponsor this thing with you. And we really care about being positioned in this way. So wait, did I answer your question? I feel like I keep like veering off.
Joseph Fordham: No, yeah, absolutely. This is all pretty fresh, right? This is what this launched in January, was it? Ever got that right? Of this year?
Domo Wells: So technically we launched it in November, cause that's when we did the preview at ComplexCon last fall. That was right before the end of the season. And then we released the capsule in February, early Feb. Cause like we weren't, we weren't selling anything at the preview. We were just showing it. And then yeah, we followed up with the full release.
Joseph Fordham: All right, okay, yeah. So it's pretty early doors in that respect. Is it too soon to be thinking further ahead in how this evolves? Or are you just kind of basking in the...
Domo Wells: ⁓ yeah, mean there's plenty of teams and leagues all over the world so we're gonna see where it takes us, you know?
Joseph Fordham: That's true, yeah. Okay. Wink, wink. I like that little, this time next week on No Place Like Home. Here we go. Love that. I mean, it's a really fascinating collaboration to see play out, guess. mean, it does...
Domo Wells: Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: change things I guess and opens up lot of doors for other people, other brands I guess, ⁓ other different partnerships that you don't even think about yet. I this does really kind of move the needle in that way so I guess that brings us nicely back to Donald Byrd and how you are arguably an innovator in your own medium.
Domo Wells: If you say so, Joseph. Okay. Thank you.
Joseph Fordham: I'll say so. I'll put that on the record. I'll say so. Listen, I'm really conscious of time and I know you must have church soon because I know I have. So we should probably wrap this up. And I've got bed in 30 minutes. I'm going to bed in 30 minutes because I'm... No, that's fine. That's fine. It's absolutely fine. I can listen to...
Domo Wells: People are gonna think you're serious. You better edit this, okay? Gonna go over their heads. They're gonna think this is religious propaganda, Joseph
Joseph Fordham: Just working through the ear waves there. Just two compliments before I go. your skin is exceptional. I can tell through a pixelated screen that you've got some mad routine going on over there. I don't know what it is. It's like porcelain. Skin like porcelain over there, don't it? Yeah. ⁓
Domo Wells: Thanks so much. I've been working on it. Ew. Period. Thank you. My exhibition would love to hear that because she dragged me the last time I was there. Dragged me. This is a word to everyone. Don't overuse the retinol, people. Okay? That's my one warning to everyone. I was tearing my skin up. When skin was all dry, she was like, girl, your face look like the Sahara Desert. What is going on?
Joseph Fordham: Hehehehehe
Domo Wells: And so I to make some adjustments. So thank you so much. Appreciate that.
Joseph Fordham: Yeah, I can see that all the way from over here. And finally that accent, arguably the coolest accent in 106 episodes. congratulations on that award as well. That's two awards, two unique awards to go with what...
Domo Wells: ⁓ my god, I didn't even know how to do that. You know, it's not the shittiest American accent, you know?
Joseph Fordham: No, it's a good one. I know you've got husband and I've got a partner. This is not an attempt at some kind of long distance relationship. Just credit where it's due.
Domo Wells: Yeah. No worries, no one's coming to beat you up, Joseph. It's okay.
Joseph Fordham: Thank you. Domo thanks so much for this. I really appreciate it. I'm really glad we got to do that. Yeah, I appreciate the flexibility. good. I'll keep that bit and that's my social clip right there.
Domo Wells: This is the best interview I have had. Wonderful. Yeah.
Joseph Fordham: Take care, thanks again so much, I really enjoyed it. I knew I would, I had a feeling. care, bye bye.
