Neil Forsyth

WEBVTT
1
00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:08.140
Another episode of Not Another Football Podcast with myself, Simon Donnelly.
2
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:09.240
And Jackie McNamara.
3
00:00:09.419 --> 00:00:13.519
And we're delighted that we have a writer, screenwriter, Neil
4
00:00:13.539 --> 00:00:15.109
Forsyth with us as our next guest.
5
00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:15.769
How are you doing, Neil?
6
00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:17.050
Good, thanks for having me.
7
00:00:17.129 --> 00:00:17.570
How's things?
8
00:00:18.050 --> 00:00:20.570
Very good, yeah. Love to see Dundee United win at
9
00:00:20.690 --> 00:00:21.949
Parkhead tonight.
10
00:00:22.390 --> 00:00:29.210
You hope. Dundee United t-shirt on. So, any projects in
11
00:00:29.230 --> 00:00:31.620
the offing at the moment? Are we in between or.
12
00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:35.119
I'm writing the second series of Legends, so I'm doing
13
00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:35.700
a second series.
14
00:00:35.740 --> 00:00:36.899
I'm a big fan of the first series.
15
00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:39.179
Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, so I flew up
16
00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:42.869
this morning, walking on it in the plane, and it's great.
17
00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:46.090
It's another great story. First series, which sounds like you watched,
18
00:00:46.109 --> 00:00:49.170
was sort of heroin in the early 90s, and this
19
00:00:49.229 --> 00:00:51.619
story takes place a little bit further into the 90s,
20
00:00:51.659 --> 00:00:55.969
so it's brilliant. So kind of, With these things there's usually,
21
00:00:55.990 --> 00:00:58.030
it's quite a long research period, so I work with
22
00:00:58.049 --> 00:01:00.609
a researcher and then interview the people that were involved
23
00:01:00.630 --> 00:01:02.670
that actually did it. So there's a few months of that,
24
00:01:03.630 --> 00:01:05.519
then it's taking all that research and trying to work
25
00:01:05.579 --> 00:01:09.060
out from all that story what kind of fit into
26
00:01:09.099 --> 00:01:11.560
six episodes really, so kind of at that stage.
27
00:01:11.859 --> 00:01:14.840
Excuse me, the same characters being the next one?
28
00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:18.870
Yeah, same legends if you like, and then new criminal cast.
29
00:01:19.810 --> 00:01:21.469
So how do you come about that at the beginning? Obviously,
30
00:01:21.489 --> 00:01:23.150
there's a wee bit of, well, there is a lot
31
00:01:23.170 --> 00:01:25.549
of reality to that story. Where did you stumble across
32
00:01:25.609 --> 00:01:26.670
that story initially?
33
00:01:26.689 --> 00:01:28.689
So I did a show called The Gold, which was
34
00:01:28.810 --> 00:01:33.519
about the Briggs-Matt robbery. And after that, I wasn't actually
35
00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:37.000
necessarily going to do another show based on true events.
36
00:01:37.299 --> 00:01:39.969
Certainly wasn't thinking I'd do another show in the 1990s,
37
00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:44.840
another British crime drama. But it's very hard to find
38
00:01:44.900 --> 00:01:48.099
stories like that. when you do what I do. You
39
00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:49.930
get offered a lot of stories that people say, oh,
40
00:01:49.939 --> 00:01:52.180
there's this amazing true story and there's some sort of connection.
41
00:01:53.269 --> 00:01:56.909
And when you look into it, often it's like a film, really,
42
00:01:56.930 --> 00:01:58.989
because just not enough happens. So you think that would
43
00:01:59.010 --> 00:02:00.750
be a great film. But for me, I like writing
44
00:02:00.950 --> 00:02:04.849
six episodes, ideally a second series. You need a lot
45
00:02:04.890 --> 00:02:07.230
to happen to keep the pace up. Otherwise, you run
46
00:02:07.250 --> 00:02:11.860
out of story, basically. So After the Gold... we'd spoke
47
00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:14.659
to people who'd, they'd actually tried to make Legends as
48
00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:17.409
a documentary series and hadn't managed to get it away
49
00:02:17.469 --> 00:02:21.449
as a documentary. So I just looked through the research
50
00:02:21.469 --> 00:02:23.449
that they'd done. They'd done a kind of initial burst
51
00:02:23.490 --> 00:02:27.270
of research. And I thought it sounded really interesting, but
52
00:02:27.530 --> 00:02:29.210
I wasn't sure I wanted to do another kind of
53
00:02:29.229 --> 00:02:31.490
true crime thing. And then I had lunch with Guy.
54
00:02:32.330 --> 00:02:35.069
So Tom Burke's character, the main legend, if you like,
55
00:02:35.090 --> 00:02:36.819
the one who goes really undercover in the first series.
56
00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:43.069
So he's still alive, lives, you know, completely anonymously. It
57
00:02:43.110 --> 00:02:46.669
still doesn't use his real name, still takes lots of precautions.
58
00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:51.689
So I had lunch with him and I was probably
59
00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:54.280
50-50 about doing it. And then when I sat and
60
00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:56.180
had lunch with him, I was sitting at the table
61
00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:57.379
and he came in. He said, do you mind if
62
00:02:57.400 --> 00:02:59.060
I sit there? He sits on his leg or whatever.
63
00:02:59.099 --> 00:03:01.379
So he sat down and then it was during the
64
00:03:01.419 --> 00:03:04.479
lunch where I realised that he'd actually sat there so
65
00:03:04.500 --> 00:03:07.210
he could see the door of the restaurant. And I
66
00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:10.710
thought it was really powerful. You know, he's 30 years later.
67
00:03:11.539 --> 00:03:12.840
And I said to him, is that why you sat there?
68
00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.060
And he said, yes. And I thought, God, when it's
69
00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.250
had that effect on someone, you realise just how significant
70
00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.189
it was and that kind of just got me really interested.
71
00:03:21.330 --> 00:03:22.870
And then he introduced me to a few of the
72
00:03:22.909 --> 00:03:26.830
others and I just drove around meeting these people that
73
00:03:26.870 --> 00:03:28.009
lived totally.
74
00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.479
What you see as normal lives, they're all retired, they're
75
00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:34.020
all basically retired. So the characters in that first series,
76
00:03:34.180 --> 00:03:35.039
you've met them?
77
00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:36.620
I met a lot of them, yeah, some of them
78
00:03:36.659 --> 00:03:38.599
are composite characters based on two or three, but I
79
00:03:38.620 --> 00:03:41.009
met half a dozen that did it, you know, they
80
00:03:41.030 --> 00:03:43.689
worked as a team, went undercover, very, very dangerous work,
81
00:03:44.650 --> 00:03:47.229
and I met the boss character as well, who's sort
82
00:03:47.250 --> 00:03:50.330
of retired, but yeah, it's crazy, you sit in these
83
00:03:50.349 --> 00:03:52.810
houses and, you know, they talk about playing golf and
84
00:03:53.099 --> 00:03:55.219
bowling or whatever and then they'd say oh yeah I
85
00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.280
also went undercover to Liverpool Drugs Gang in 1992.
86
00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:00.520
You must constantly live an edge though that you're saying
87
00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:02.159
about that guy having to see the door.
88
00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:04.979
Yeah well it affected them, it definitely affected them and
89
00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:06.919
that's something we tried to convey in the show and
90
00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:08.990
I think we'll probably get even further into in the
91
00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:14.530
second series is that it had real kind of integral
92
00:04:15.150 --> 00:04:17.529
shift within them as a result not all positive you
93
00:04:17.569 --> 00:04:22.490
know in some ways they never recovered because I think
94
00:04:22.509 --> 00:04:24.750
what was really interesting about the people in Legends, being
95
00:04:24.810 --> 00:04:27.839
customs officers, what I found exciting was that they're not
96
00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:31.139
police and they're not intelligence services. So they don't have
97
00:04:31.180 --> 00:04:34.339
this massive framework of support at all. And they don't
98
00:04:34.379 --> 00:04:36.959
have much money. They have a terrible budget. So they
99
00:04:36.980 --> 00:04:41.269
just go and do this stuff on the cheap, basically.
100
00:04:41.850 --> 00:04:44.129
And then they'd go home to their families and they'd
101
00:04:44.149 --> 00:04:46.990
have people checking in them here and there, but they very, very.
102
00:04:46.810 --> 00:04:47.970
Rarely had anyone watching.
103
00:04:48.050 --> 00:04:48.230
Yeah.
104
00:04:48.529 --> 00:04:50.709
They'd be going into these situations totally on their own,
105
00:04:50.810 --> 00:04:54.170
into like pubs to meet drug dealers and things. And
106
00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.480
minimal training, just living off their wits really. So it's
107
00:04:57.899 --> 00:04:59.959
a brilliant story. I was very glad to kind of
108
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:00.319
find it.
109
00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:03.259
How long does that take for you to write then, usually?
110
00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.759
It's kind of about, a rule of thumb is about
111
00:05:05.790 --> 00:05:10.810
a year's writing and a year's production. So two years cycle.
112
00:05:10.910 --> 00:05:12.889
And it's a long time. And it's kind of.
113
00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:15.300
we'll still get a wee bit of a wait for the.
114
00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:18.660
Series yeah yeah I think it'll be probably get on
115
00:05:18.740 --> 00:05:20.699
to TV in about 18 months probably by the time
116
00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:23.370
I've written it and made it but it's kind of
117
00:05:24.689 --> 00:05:27.050
as you get older I mean very lucky to have
118
00:05:27.069 --> 00:05:28.430
got to this point it's taken me a long time
119
00:05:28.470 --> 00:05:29.769
to get to this point in terms of writing and
120
00:05:29.790 --> 00:05:33.509
things but equally you do think because two years for
121
00:05:34.019 --> 00:05:36.550
six hours of television is that in that statistic as
122
00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.569
you get older you think god is this why we
123
00:05:38.589 --> 00:05:41.310
want to do the next decade that's only five series
124
00:05:41.850 --> 00:05:43.889
you start parceling your life out a little bit but
125
00:05:44.350 --> 00:05:46.509
yeah i can't complain and i think it just takes
126
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:48.319
a lot of work to get it right.
127
00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:50.959
And then the production you know it must be so
128
00:05:50.980 --> 00:05:54.220
rewarding though with the finish yeah you know how it's
129
00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:55.959
been perceived as well.
130
00:05:55.779 --> 00:05:58.060
Yeah definitely then when you get a nice reception to
131
00:05:58.139 --> 00:05:59.870
it just makes such a difference because you kind of
132
00:05:59.889 --> 00:06:03.459
think It's really a reward for hard work. People work
133
00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:07.170
so hard on it. Obviously, you're not going down the
134
00:06:07.209 --> 00:06:09.230
mines and everything else, and it's well rewarded and things,
135
00:06:09.269 --> 00:06:13.629
but it's proper hard graft when you're making shows and
136
00:06:14.009 --> 00:06:17.610
your long days. And then the weekends, I'm always working
137
00:06:17.649 --> 00:06:19.250
on the scripts in terms of things that are coming up.
138
00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:21.550
So it's seven days a week for a few months,
139
00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:26.949
and it becomes completely all consuming. So you're, it's, but
140
00:06:27.129 --> 00:06:28.569
you put in that work and then hopefully get the
141
00:06:28.589 --> 00:06:31.110
payoff of people enjoying it. And it's brilliant.
142
00:06:31.209 --> 00:06:33.370
And the people that actually done it.
143
00:06:33.829 --> 00:06:34.050
Yeah.
144
00:06:34.290 --> 00:06:36.629
You know, because they wouldn't have got recognition at the time.
145
00:06:37.089 --> 00:06:37.550
Well, definitely.
146
00:06:37.569 --> 00:06:40.189
So all the years later, they're like starting to go, wow,
147
00:06:40.550 --> 00:06:43.449
it's actually an incredible job that we've done. Yeah. You know,
148
00:06:43.490 --> 00:06:44.300
for a little reward.
149
00:06:44.829 --> 00:06:46.720
Yeah. And that's definitely been one of the nicest things
150
00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:50.279
for it is undercover, old undercover customs agents. Once I've
151
00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:52.220
not met, get in touch one way or another. Yeah.
152
00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:54.819
and say that they really enjoyed it and we got
153
00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:56.300
it right. And that kind of means a lot, I think.
154
00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:57.120
Right.
155
00:06:58.819 --> 00:07:01.699
So would you say that's your most noticeable piece of
156
00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:04.220
work just now? Is it just because it's been Netflix?
157
00:07:04.819 --> 00:07:07.889
Well, I mean, it's interesting. So, I mean, the most
158
00:07:07.930 --> 00:07:10.709
significant things in my career would have been I started
159
00:07:10.750 --> 00:07:13.029
off in kind of comedy. Well, I started off writing
160
00:07:13.069 --> 00:07:15.779
and journalism and things and then got into comedy. And
161
00:07:15.819 --> 00:07:17.779
then I made a show called Guilt, which was an
162
00:07:18.379 --> 00:07:20.879
Edinburgh-based Scottish drama. That made a huge difference to me
163
00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:25.139
because that got me into writing drama, one-hour drama. That
164
00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:27.899
was the BBC Scotland channel. Part of their launch, they
165
00:07:27.939 --> 00:07:30.600
commissioned Guilt and took a real chance on me. I'd
166
00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:35.139
never done drama before. So that was really significant for me,
167
00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:38.889
three series of that. And then The Gold was, they've
168
00:07:38.910 --> 00:07:41.990
all been significant in different ways. The Gold was BBC One, primetime,
169
00:07:42.189 --> 00:07:44.149
Sunday night, nine o'clock, the kind of big slot in.
170
00:07:44.889 --> 00:07:46.490
That got, you know, the first series of Gold ended
171
00:07:46.550 --> 00:07:49.220
up getting about 10 million viewers, which is one in
172
00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.980
five of the British adult population. I always think every
173
00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:56.220
five-a-side team, one of them watched it. And then, so that,
174
00:07:56.259 --> 00:07:59.350
you got that proper, you know, hard people talking about it.
175
00:07:59.379 --> 00:08:01.459
I heard people talking about it on Tube and things
176
00:08:01.490 --> 00:08:03.230
like that, so that was kind of mad, you know.
177
00:08:04.050 --> 00:08:06.129
And then the big thing with Netflix was, it's the
178
00:08:06.149 --> 00:08:09.769
international side of it, because that was just crazy, you know.
179
00:08:09.829 --> 00:08:12.689
Day one, it gets released in every single country at
180
00:08:12.730 --> 00:08:16.680
the same time, you know. So you get this, I
181
00:08:16.699 --> 00:08:18.500
get sent, I got sent every day these sort of
182
00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.560
top 10 charts from 63 countries and it's funny you're
183
00:08:21.579 --> 00:08:24.220
watching it go up and down. And no real rhyme
184
00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:26.430
or reason, you can't, you don't understand the countries it's
185
00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:30.329
done well in and, you know, and kind of drop down.
186
00:08:30.370 --> 00:08:33.269
So it was that feeling of like, God, around the world,
187
00:08:33.330 --> 00:08:35.629
and then you're up to, I don't know, probably internationally
188
00:08:35.870 --> 00:08:37.929
up to about 40, 50 million, I'd say, for legends
189
00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:39.519
in terms of, so it's hard to get your head
190
00:08:39.539 --> 00:08:43.029
around that really. But I think that, I think the,
191
00:08:43.889 --> 00:08:46.919
BBC and Netflix are kind of they both offer different
192
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.100
things Netflix gives you the international aspect you can't ignore
193
00:08:51.139 --> 00:08:55.679
that it's huge but then BBC I still really like
194
00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.519
that time slot because obviously Netflix it just all gets
195
00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.960
dropped but I always think with the BBC with the
196
00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:05.100
gold 9 o'clock on a Sunday I'm like right now
197
00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:08.600
however many people are watching that I still find it
198
00:09:08.620 --> 00:09:11.210
kind of mind blowing really So.
199
00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:14.009
When you left school, was that your career path of choice?
200
00:09:14.269 --> 00:09:15.789
It would have been, but I didn't really... I mean,
201
00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:19.570
a school... How did you come to where you are?
202
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.080
I read that you did a wee bit of sports journalism.
203
00:09:22.100 --> 00:09:23.879
Yeah, it was football writing and things. Well, when I
204
00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:26.320
was at school, you know, English was by far my
205
00:09:26.379 --> 00:09:28.580
better subject, my history as well, when you wrote essays
206
00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.000
and things. But it's definitely what I wanted to do,
207
00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:34.659
was be a writer. I wrote for... When I was
208
00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:36.559
a teenager, I wrote for Dundee United fanzine, so that
209
00:09:36.580 --> 00:09:38.360
was kind of what I started writing, and that was
210
00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:40.700
really exciting. I was 13.
211
00:09:40.700 --> 00:09:41.440
What year was that then?
212
00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:42.120
What team was that?
213
00:09:42.460 --> 00:09:47.700
Well, it would have been sort of 92-ish. So you're
214
00:09:47.740 --> 00:09:50.470
kind of building up to the 94 team that won
215
00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:54.429
the Scottish Cup. So 92, you would be, you know,
216
00:09:54.450 --> 00:09:57.049
when I started, yeah, when I started Sporting United, it
217
00:09:57.070 --> 00:09:59.929
was the sort of, just after the sort of championships.
218
00:10:00.029 --> 00:10:01.679
winning team really I was obviously very aware of them
219
00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:04.500
so you still had through the 80s you still had
220
00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:08.259
Hegarty and Nary and Luggy Holt Ralphie Mill and people
221
00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.779
like that and then you saw the team came a
222
00:10:11.820 --> 00:10:14.259
little bit after them into the UEFA Cup team the
223
00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.840
Gothenburg team which was sort of more like Davey Bowman
224
00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:19.940
Mack and Ali McKinley players like this who kind of
225
00:10:20.379 --> 00:10:21.559
sort of merge those two teams.
226
00:10:21.580 --> 00:10:25.299
I actually played before that game for a Dundee United
227
00:10:25.340 --> 00:10:28.159
select when I was a kid. Oh really?
228
00:10:28.179 --> 00:10:29.360
In the Gothenburg?
229
00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.700
Before the Gothenburg game at Tannadice, which is bizarre then
230
00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:34.840
you end up obviously years later being the manager, but
231
00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:37.750
I used to train with Dundee United at a training
232
00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:42.690
centre in Edinburgh at Rickerton, which is where Hart's trained now.
233
00:10:43.529 --> 00:10:45.529
And then I got asked up to play in that
234
00:10:45.570 --> 00:10:47.190
game before the Gothenburg game.
235
00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:50.629
You know just on the pitch there's a little.
236
00:10:50.450 --> 00:10:56.909
Pitch before it yeah yeah we lost that's yeah Gothenburg
237
00:10:57.740 --> 00:10:59.980
famously the pitch was so up-polling because there'd been a
238
00:11:00.019 --> 00:11:03.059
Bruce Springsteen concert a few days before David Bowman still
239
00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:06.700
talks about that and er But that run, so that's
240
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:07.360
where I kind of came in.
241
00:11:07.460 --> 00:11:09.070
You know, one of my first games at Talladega is
242
00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:10.710
we beat Barcelona in the UEFA Cup.
243
00:11:10.789 --> 00:11:10.990
Yeah.
244
00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:11.710
Kevin Gallagher won.
245
00:11:11.909 --> 00:11:12.450
John Clarke.
246
00:11:12.470 --> 00:11:13.169
Kevin Gallagher.
247
00:11:13.190 --> 00:11:15.830
Yeah, Gallagher. Clark scored over in Camp Nou, yeah. In
248
00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:17.990
Camp Nou, yeah. So, you know, I think that's... So
249
00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:19.049
that was one of your first games? I think my
250
00:11:19.090 --> 00:11:21.029
first game, we drew Neil and Neil Hamilton. Don't get
251
00:11:21.049 --> 00:11:22.169
any better than that. I think we drew Neil and
252
00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:27.019
Neil Hamilton in my first game and beat Barcelona. Wow. Yeah,
253
00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.820
and that Barcelona game, you know, my grandad got tickets
254
00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:33.259
for us all and my uncle came up from, England,
255
00:11:33.299 --> 00:11:34.759
he was a big United fan from when he was young.
256
00:11:34.820 --> 00:11:36.440
There was about 10 of us there as the family,
257
00:11:36.460 --> 00:11:38.879
my brother and my dad and everything. And it's just unbelievable.
258
00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:43.610
I still remember it so clearly, Gallagher's Gold. So that was, so,
259
00:11:43.669 --> 00:11:45.429
you know, writing for the fanzine was my big kind
260
00:11:45.470 --> 00:11:48.250
of start in writing. And that's what I wanted to do.
261
00:11:48.289 --> 00:11:50.070
And I used to write it and sell it outside Tannadice.
262
00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:54.690
It was brilliant fun. Largely taking like Roy of the
263
00:11:54.710 --> 00:11:57.129
Rovers comic strips and then I'd tip X out the
264
00:11:57.169 --> 00:11:59.679
speech bubbles and just write in something offensive about Jim
265
00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.460
Duffy or something like that. So it wasn't a tall story,
266
00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:05.500
but that was kind of my start in writing. And
267
00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:12.279
that was a big part of, you know, anything extra
268
00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:13.970
at school in a little media department, I'd go and
269
00:12:14.149 --> 00:12:15.830
do extra stuff there. I remember I went and interviewed
270
00:12:15.990 --> 00:12:18.009
wee Jim as part of that. Jim McLean.
271
00:12:18.029 --> 00:12:19.070
I had a minute experience.
272
00:12:19.269 --> 00:12:24.830
Yeah, exactly. Well, my uncle Bill, my grandfather Bill, played
273
00:12:24.850 --> 00:12:25.379
bowls with Jim.
274
00:12:25.409 --> 00:12:25.580
Right.
275
00:12:26.490 --> 00:12:29.210
In the bowling club on Albert Road, which Jim famously
276
00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:34.110
got banned from for abusing the referees. I remember my
277
00:12:34.149 --> 00:12:36.169
Uncle Bill said he was involved in, I think, the
278
00:12:36.190 --> 00:12:38.029
meeting where they had to tell Jim that he was banned.
279
00:12:38.289 --> 00:12:40.090
And my Uncle Bill said it was the scariest thing
280
00:12:40.129 --> 00:12:42.470
he'd ever done. And my Uncle Bill fought in Italy
281
00:12:42.490 --> 00:12:46.429
in the Second World War. He said that disciplinary meeting
282
00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:49.879
at the bowling club was far worse than the Italian campaign. So,
283
00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:52.860
you know, it went up and interviewed Jim for the
284
00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:56.009
school media thing and and I remember I went in
285
00:12:56.049 --> 00:12:58.330
and I was I was 14 and he said right
286
00:12:58.450 --> 00:13:00.149
and it was just a girl from my class with
287
00:13:00.190 --> 00:13:02.210
a video camera and me and he said right so
288
00:13:02.230 --> 00:13:04.110
take us in the boardroom I said show me your
289
00:13:04.149 --> 00:13:06.159
questions and I went oh right I gave him my
290
00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:10.659
questions scored like half of them I really said I
291
00:13:11.539 --> 00:13:13.019
asked I remember I asked him a question in an
292
00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.559
interview where I said um do you think United should
293
00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:19.070
spend a bit more on transfers? And he just went potty.
294
00:13:19.110 --> 00:13:20.909
And he said to me, I remember he called me
295
00:13:21.009 --> 00:13:25.009
hopelessly naive, and I was 14 at the time, because
296
00:13:25.029 --> 00:13:28.830
I didn't understand what United's transfer budget should be. So
297
00:13:29.009 --> 00:13:33.620
lots of little writing things, always around football. But I
298
00:13:33.649 --> 00:13:36.299
think it was difficult, because it was kind of like pre-internet.
299
00:13:37.220 --> 00:13:39.620
And same for you, I'm sure. Pre-internet, the world always
300
00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.039
seems much bigger and scarier, and you felt so far
301
00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:43.940
from all these things.
302
00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:44.120
Yes.
303
00:13:44.740 --> 00:13:47.679
Growing up in Dundee, didn't know anyone that had worked
304
00:13:47.779 --> 00:13:50.500
in creative arts. You're sometimes reading The Courier about maybe
305
00:13:51.059 --> 00:13:53.419
Brian Cox or Ricky Ross or someone like that. So
306
00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:57.120
you see that people had done these things. So I
307
00:13:57.139 --> 00:13:59.019
kind of drifted about a little bit. I went to university,
308
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:00.940
but I didn't quite have the guts to do writing.
309
00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.200
Went down to London for a couple of years. And
310
00:14:04.659 --> 00:14:07.100
then I thought, I want to be a writer. I
311
00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.919
think I've got a chance here. So I went back
312
00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.700
to Scotland, went back to Edinburgh. and just worked in
313
00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:14.059
a pub, worked for Kenny Waugh Jr.
314
00:14:14.059 --> 00:14:15.200
You probably know Kenny Waugh.
315
00:14:15.340 --> 00:14:18.200
Yeah, so Kenny had all the pubs around the Cowgate
316
00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:20.490
and things, so worked in the Three Sisters and places
317
00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:24.659
like that. Yeah, yeah, and so well into my 20s,
318
00:14:24.850 --> 00:14:29.789
worked for Kenny and around, he had a nightclub, Faith
319
00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:33.129
nightclub in Cowgate I worked at and I was just
320
00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:35.309
working every night and then during the day trying to
321
00:14:35.330 --> 00:14:38.409
write and trying to get work of some sort of nature.
322
00:14:39.549 --> 00:14:42.649
So it was things like football websites and Wednesday, Saturday
323
00:14:42.700 --> 00:14:45.299
comes little football magazines and then the Scotsman and the
324
00:14:45.340 --> 00:14:48.899
Herald started giving me a little bit of work doing
325
00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:50.000
match reports and things.
326
00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.340
Was it articles or more match reports?
327
00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:54.919
It started with match reports, which were brilliant. I mean,
328
00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:57.379
that was, first of all, I find it incredibly exciting
329
00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.539
as a big football fan to be in the press
330
00:14:59.570 --> 00:15:02.950
box and things. But equally, as a writing discipline, match
331
00:15:02.970 --> 00:15:06.529
reports are really, really good because you have X amount
332
00:15:06.549 --> 00:15:09.590
of words published you know, 300 words or something like
333
00:15:09.590 --> 00:15:12.529
400 words. So every single word has to count. So
334
00:15:12.710 --> 00:15:15.980
it teaches you to be so kind of interrogate yourself
335
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:17.879
with your choices and kind of tell this in a
336
00:15:17.899 --> 00:15:20.840
more succinct way. And then you obviously have to get
337
00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:23.139
the report in 15, 20 minutes after the final whistle.
338
00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:27.730
And this was just before, you know, everyone had Wi-Fi
339
00:15:27.789 --> 00:15:29.350
and you just emailed over. I was still phoning, you'd
340
00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:31.230
phone in, you'd phone in the match report.
341
00:15:31.389 --> 00:15:32.649
What year that would have been then?
342
00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:39.830
So that would have been, I would have been around 2003. 2003-ish, probably. 2003, maybe.
343
00:15:39.850 --> 00:15:45.769
Early noughties. Yeah, about then. So sort of starting to do...
344
00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:48.529
So yeah, 2003, 4, 5, 6, I'd be working in
345
00:15:48.549 --> 00:15:52.120
the pub, doing some match reports, doing some magazine things.
346
00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:55.159
I remember the first game I did was Motherwell Dundee,
347
00:15:55.299 --> 00:15:58.240
and then I did a lot of lower division games.
348
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:02.519
But I remember there was a game that I did,
349
00:16:03.100 --> 00:16:06.100
and I'd written the whole report, and one team were
350
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:07.320
very on top, I think it was like Ross, Kent,
351
00:16:07.340 --> 00:16:10.080
St Mirren, one team were totally on top, and I
352
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.240
was feeling pretty pleased with myself, pretty much written it,
353
00:16:12.289 --> 00:16:15.889
and the whole report was abdominal, it was too late goals,
354
00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:17.769
and I was completely fucked, and I was like, oh
355
00:16:17.789 --> 00:16:19.990
my god, so I'm frantically, 15 minutes to try and
356
00:16:20.009 --> 00:16:23.269
rewrite it, and this old school report was next to me,
357
00:16:23.450 --> 00:16:24.909
cool as you like, just having this cup of tea,
358
00:16:24.980 --> 00:16:26.980
and I phoned it in, and he said to me,
359
00:16:28.059 --> 00:16:30.379
listen sir, I'll give you a tip, you write the
360
00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.570
first paragraph last, right, So what you do is you
361
00:16:33.590 --> 00:16:35.840
write the story of the game quite kind of neutrally,
362
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.320
just what happened. And then the final whistle, you'd go
363
00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:42.080
and write the first paragraph and say, Ross County dominated today.
364
00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:44.940
And then you're covered, you know? And I'd also have
365
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.220
the ups and downs. And I remember the other one was,
366
00:16:49.230 --> 00:16:51.750
because I had no qualifications with these things. I just
367
00:16:51.789 --> 00:16:53.789
kept talking myself to the next stage of writing. And
368
00:16:53.809 --> 00:16:57.389
then I remember I did a Livingston game and they'd
369
00:16:57.549 --> 00:17:03.330
just signed... Fernandes so you'll know the punchline to this
370
00:17:03.389 --> 00:17:05.569
but I so I wrote this and I was like
371
00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:07.569
who the fuck is this guy and I thought someone
372
00:17:07.589 --> 00:17:10.910
said oh he's French right so anyway they won 1-0
373
00:17:11.190 --> 00:17:16.819
and I said won 1-0 the Gaelic typical Gaelic arrogance
374
00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:18.799
with the finish by the Frenchman or something like that
375
00:17:18.819 --> 00:17:22.119
anyway sent it in and really pleased myself I think
376
00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.940
it was Scotland Sunday hadn't really done anything for them
377
00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:26.940
before and they're this really tough sports sport that used
378
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.359
to edit the games very pleased myself, got the paper
379
00:17:29.380 --> 00:17:31.900
the next day, sub-editor obviously got in, and it said
380
00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:34.240
a neat finish from the Spaniards, and I was like, oh,
381
00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:37.140
this is fucking hell. So all week I'm thinking, that's it,
382
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.900
and it's over. How did you survive it? So you
383
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.240
had to phone up, I think you had to phone
384
00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:44.759
up on a Thursday to see if they'd give you
385
00:17:44.779 --> 00:17:46.680
a game at the weekend, so I phoned up, waited
386
00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:48.519
all week, so I phoned up on Thursday, could I
387
00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:50.789
speak to the guy who got put through, just ringing, ringing, ringing,
388
00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:53.329
and he picked up the phone and he just went, Bonjour!
389
00:17:55.690 --> 00:17:58.329
And then he said, you know, Reith Rove or whatever.
390
00:17:58.349 --> 00:17:59.470
So Reith Rove was in his second.
391
00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:02.150
Did you have to mark the players as well at 10?
392
00:18:02.150 --> 00:18:05.019
Because that used to be the thing back then.
393
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.619
Dressing rooms, you got into that.
394
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:07.960
I never quite did.
395
00:18:08.019 --> 00:18:09.380
I got a friend.
396
00:18:09.859 --> 00:18:13.940
Now everybody has a, you know, social media, everybody has
397
00:18:14.619 --> 00:18:15.400
a voice.
398
00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.309
To tell you you were cheating. I know, you must
399
00:18:18.329 --> 00:18:20.089
have hated that fives and sixes.
400
00:18:20.170 --> 00:18:23.920
I mean, it's like there, but then... and then you're
401
00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.539
playing in there going, I don't pay any attention to it,
402
00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:27.380
but you did. Yeah.
403
00:18:27.740 --> 00:18:28.980
You know what I mean?
404
00:18:29.019 --> 00:18:30.900
Yeah, you played, put me a five.
405
00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:32.579
That's the guy who watched the game.
406
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.559
No, you must have hated it. I don't, well, luckily,
407
00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:35.980
I don't think I ever did that, but it was,
408
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:38.400
but then, you know, and then they started to give
409
00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:41.450
me like more, go and interview people and things. I'll
410
00:18:41.470 --> 00:18:44.829
tell you, actually, one of my first interviews was Phil O'Donnell.
411
00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:46.390
You would have been with him down in Sheffield.
412
00:18:46.450 --> 00:18:46.650
Right.
413
00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:48.940
You came to Sheffield? You were there together, weren't you?
414
00:18:48.950 --> 00:18:49.089
Yeah.
415
00:18:49.170 --> 00:18:50.589
Yeah, so I came down for the day in the train.
416
00:18:50.609 --> 00:18:54.079
Did you? Surprised I wasn't there, we were joined to
417
00:18:54.099 --> 00:18:54.359
the hip.
418
00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:58.019
Yeah, well he picked me up, but this is incredible,
419
00:18:58.039 --> 00:18:59.599
so he picked me up, took me to somewhere, and
420
00:18:59.619 --> 00:19:04.309
I was so nervous, because I hadn't really done one-on-ones before.
421
00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:06.750
And it was like this, and I remember sitting there,
422
00:19:06.829 --> 00:19:10.529
and I remember recording everything, and chatting away, so filthy,
423
00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:13.410
and I was probably 23, 24 at the time, and
424
00:19:13.609 --> 00:19:15.430
just so nervous, you're such a nice guy, which you'll
425
00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:17.829
know better than me, and chatting away. Ten minutes in,
426
00:19:17.829 --> 00:19:20.150
I had that horrible thing, I was like, not press
427
00:19:20.170 --> 00:19:22.930
the record I'm not gonna and that horrible moment I
428
00:19:22.950 --> 00:19:26.109
said oh my god and it's building so anyway he
429
00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:28.910
sought he sought a guest right because I was going
430
00:19:29.069 --> 00:19:30.589
oh and he could see me play all the colours
431
00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:32.769
right from my face and I was going and he
432
00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.630
went have you forgotten to thing and what was so
433
00:19:35.710 --> 00:19:38.630
incredible he went just start again he said don't worry
434
00:19:38.650 --> 00:19:40.210
about it and I said well and he went no
435
00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:42.380
no ask exactly the same questions again and stuff and
436
00:19:42.390 --> 00:19:46.710
he just um what a good he's a good boy
437
00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:50.000
so yeah lots of things like that and um and
438
00:19:50.019 --> 00:19:51.819
then from there i got into the sort of um
439
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:56.259
men's magazines and sort of maximum fhm and stuff you
440
00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:58.180
know it was kind of they believe it or.
441
00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:00.559
Not breaks for you or was it just a natural.
442
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.000
Yeah well what you would do is you you know
443
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:04.160
once i've done a few things like that i would
444
00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:07.609
then send a little you know email, like, try and
445
00:20:07.690 --> 00:20:10.369
find out the email address for, like, a features editor
446
00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:11.970
at a magazine and say, look, I've done this and that.
447
00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:13.670
Can you give me a chance? I've got the story idea.
448
00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:15.130
And he'd say, well, go and do that. We'll give you...
449
00:20:15.049 --> 00:20:16.829
And I was always just trying to get to the
450
00:20:16.869 --> 00:20:20.509
next level, you know, and the next opportunity, if you like.
451
00:20:20.769 --> 00:20:23.910
And then when I was working with these, the magazines
452
00:20:23.930 --> 00:20:26.849
were great. And I did, you know, it's funny, Neil Lennon,
453
00:20:28.109 --> 00:20:29.589
because I saw you had him on there, which I
454
00:20:29.589 --> 00:20:32.099
really enjoyed, on here, sorry. And he was brilliant with
455
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:34.589
me as well, because I remember... What I used to
456
00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:36.599
do a lot of is just sell Scottish stories that
457
00:20:36.630 --> 00:20:39.359
we all knew, but to these English magazines. So I'd say, oh,
458
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.609
Neil Lennon's got this incredible story, everything that's happened to him.
459
00:20:41.619 --> 00:20:44.200
This one, he was captain at Celtic. And I remember
460
00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:47.200
I went and interviewed him for FHM at Parkhead. And
461
00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:49.339
then I think I went and interviewed for Maxi a
462
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:51.779
few months later. And he said, all right, that's the same.
463
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:53.839
And then I went back a few months later for
464
00:20:54.339 --> 00:20:56.680
Front Magazine or something, just trying to get another 500 quid.
465
00:20:56.980 --> 00:20:59.299
I remember when he came out to the reception part,
466
00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:03.480
he went, are you taking the fucking page? And he went,
467
00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:06.000
do you get paid every time? And I went, yeah.
468
00:21:06.019 --> 00:21:07.299
And he went, oh, come on then. And just told
469
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:10.079
me the same anecdotes again. So yeah, there's lots of
470
00:21:10.099 --> 00:21:13.309
things like that. And then when I was doing those magazines,
471
00:21:13.349 --> 00:21:15.119
I found my first story became my first book. So
472
00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:17.490
I wrote about seven books in the end, but half
473
00:21:17.539 --> 00:21:19.920
a dozen before I did television. A couple of novels.
474
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.460
A true story of a young Glaswegian credit card fraudster.
475
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.039
A really interesting story. A guy called Elliot Castro from
476
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.859
Battlefield in Glasgow. It was a bit like Catch Me
477
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:31.640
If You Can. I mean, he just basically came up
478
00:21:31.660 --> 00:21:33.460
with this credit card fraud and he went around the world.
479
00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:39.099
Went through a couple of million pounds. Incredible. And that
480
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:42.380
was a good example whereby... I was just walking down
481
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:44.990
Leith Walk in Edinburgh where I lived, and there was
482
00:21:45.029 --> 00:21:48.970
a tiny bit in a Scottish newspaper saying, teenage Scottish
483
00:21:49.029 --> 00:21:53.269
con man jail. And it just said this teenage kid
484
00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:55.869
had stolen quite a lot of money using credit card fraud.
485
00:21:56.130 --> 00:21:58.180
And I was thinking, this is mad. There's got to
486
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.640
be a lot more to it than this. And this
487
00:22:00.700 --> 00:22:02.119
is the thing at the time, because it was always
488
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.660
about finding stories, finding stories, and selling stories. So I
489
00:22:04.700 --> 00:22:07.119
was like, right, where did he get convicted? I think
490
00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:08.940
it was Isleworth, because he got caught.
491
00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:09.269
He threw.
492
00:22:10.269 --> 00:22:12.170
And then I worked out the local prison would have
493
00:22:12.190 --> 00:22:14.990
been Remand, probably Wormwood Scrubs. And I just wrote to
494
00:22:15.029 --> 00:22:18.319
Wormwood Scrubs, Elliot Castro, no prison number or anything. And
495
00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:20.619
about two weeks later, I got a reply. And he said,
496
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.180
you know, interesting, why would you like to tell my story?
497
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:24.700
I went back and forth. And then he got moved
498
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.039
to an open prison in Sussex. And I went down
499
00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:30.160
for the day, interviewed him. And that was an article
500
00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:32.569
in Maxim. And then I sent that article to publishers.
501
00:22:32.609 --> 00:22:35.190
And that became my first book deal, writing his story.
502
00:22:35.250 --> 00:22:37.619
So It's almost finding things.
503
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.509
You said you started with novels, and then you obviously
504
00:22:41.529 --> 00:22:44.789
got into that sort of stuff, finding stories, bringing them
505
00:22:44.829 --> 00:22:47.970
to the fore. Is that what you prefer to do?
506
00:22:48.029 --> 00:22:51.690
Yeah, so I've done two novels, which I find incredibly hard,
507
00:22:51.710 --> 00:22:56.769
to be honest. It's like you're making it. It sounds obvious,
508
00:22:56.789 --> 00:23:00.380
but it's the tyranny of possibility. If anything can happen,
509
00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:03.779
how do you decide what's going to happen? How do
510
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.079
you feel confident you've made the right best choice? And
511
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.140
Guilt was fictional drama on TV. We did three series
512
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:14.119
of that and again, found it very difficult. And actually
513
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.829
they're kind of inspired by true events, kind of shows
514
00:23:16.869 --> 00:23:19.430
I do now. I do find them easier to be honest.
515
00:23:19.690 --> 00:23:21.130
I do find, yeah. And I think maybe because I
516
00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:23.309
started as a journalist, I quite enjoy the research period.
517
00:23:23.329 --> 00:23:25.630
I don't find it daunting. I like doing interviews and
518
00:23:26.130 --> 00:23:28.750
pulling stories out of people. And then I quite like
519
00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:31.410
piecing that together. And then the creative license is all
520
00:23:31.450 --> 00:23:35.049
there in terms of making a television show. But knowing
521
00:23:35.069 --> 00:23:39.119
the stories there, I kind of relax a bit so
522
00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.299
like Legends 2 for example the researcher I'll have a
523
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.200
few meetings with him point in the right direction and
524
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.839
he'll give me this massive document of research.
525
00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:49.849
Alright guys we are here at the Drygate Brewery in
526
00:23:49.910 --> 00:23:53.089
Glasgow filming a couple of podcasts we'd just like to
527
00:23:53.130 --> 00:23:56.549
tell you about the 29th of November Drygate is throwing
528
00:23:56.589 --> 00:23:59.250
a massive St Andrew's Day party and trust us you
529
00:23:59.269 --> 00:24:01.849
don't want to miss this one we're talking proper Scottish
530
00:24:01.869 --> 00:24:04.630
celebrations brilliant entertainment 10.
531
00:24:04.410 --> 00:24:07.289
Inch stout have you tried that? Not yet.
532
00:24:07.930 --> 00:24:10.549
Sponsoring the day, charity involvement in an atmosphere that will
533
00:24:10.569 --> 00:24:11.210
be hard to beat.
534
00:24:11.230 --> 00:24:13.410
I think they've been giving St Paddy's Day one for
535
00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:14.890
their money, sir. They will be.
536
00:24:15.230 --> 00:24:17.759
So get your pals together, get your Scottish pride.
537
00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:19.640
Out and get yourselves down to the Drygate.
538
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:25.380
Email hello at drygate.co.uk on at drygate on Instagram as well.
539
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.059
So get yourselves down And it's quite daunting because you've
540
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:29.640
got to get six episodes of TV out of that.
541
00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:31.339
But at the same time, I know it's in there.
542
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:32.859
So I can look at that document and say, I
543
00:24:32.900 --> 00:24:35.180
know the show is in there, the story is in there.
544
00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:38.049
And it partly relaxes because I don't have to come
545
00:24:38.109 --> 00:24:40.309
up with it. I have to join it together and
546
00:24:40.549 --> 00:24:43.190
work out how to tell it. But with fiction, that
547
00:24:43.230 --> 00:24:45.589
thing starting with a blank page, I do find it
548
00:24:46.390 --> 00:24:48.990
quite daunting. I'm glad I did it. I feel really
549
00:24:49.029 --> 00:24:50.990
pleased I did it and I've done it, but I
550
00:24:51.029 --> 00:24:51.710
don't feel any need.
551
00:24:51.630 --> 00:24:54.910
To do it. what was the comedy.
552
00:24:54.470 --> 00:24:59.950
Bob Servant Brian Cox yeah so that was and that
553
00:24:59.970 --> 00:25:02.390
was you know I'd written a couple of basically humour
554
00:25:02.410 --> 00:25:05.359
books based in Dundee kind of to make my mates
555
00:25:05.410 --> 00:25:08.059
laugh really you know and then managed to get the
556
00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:11.559
book to Brian that was a united connection to that
557
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:14.920
actually that was I was in New York for a
558
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:20.410
period doing some journalism and studying screenwriting and I'd written
559
00:25:20.430 --> 00:25:22.779
this Bob Servant book and it kind of so well
560
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.049
basically in Dundee and they'd been and gone and I
561
00:25:26.069 --> 00:25:27.950
went to watch United play Rangers so there's a Celtic
562
00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:29.450
pub and a Rangers pub in New York you probably
563
00:25:29.470 --> 00:25:32.539
know this and er We were playing Rangers in the
564
00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:35.220
quarter-final of the Scottish Cup. So it's a game when...
565
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.640
I'm trying to think of you guys. It came off
566
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.180
Davey Robertson's arse, basically, and we won 1-0. I don't
567
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.160
think it was... The first one was... Yeah, your first game.
568
00:25:43.180 --> 00:25:44.250
That was 1-3-1.
569
00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:44.690
First game.
570
00:25:44.690 --> 00:25:47.309
19 seconds we scored. Yes. I remember that game. But
571
00:25:47.329 --> 00:26:02.829
just quickly, so this game in New York, one other
572
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.069
United fan in the bar and then Rangers fans and
573
00:26:05.130 --> 00:26:06.849
we United won so I had a couple of beers
574
00:26:06.869 --> 00:26:08.569
with this guy and we had kind of mutual friends
575
00:26:09.509 --> 00:26:12.849
and he anyway he'd been given this Bob Sutherland book
576
00:26:12.890 --> 00:26:14.690
by his mum for his Christmas so bizarrely he knew
577
00:26:14.710 --> 00:26:16.289
about it and knew about me and I said well
578
00:26:16.309 --> 00:26:17.569
we're maybe going to try and do it for radio
579
00:26:17.589 --> 00:26:19.950
or TV but I don't know it'll only work if
580
00:26:19.970 --> 00:26:22.089
you because I've never done anything and it'll only work
581
00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:25.490
if I get a decent actor and really and he
582
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:27.559
said well who would you what would your ideal choice
583
00:26:27.619 --> 00:26:29.440
be and I said well Brian Cox he said I
584
00:26:29.460 --> 00:26:33.230
know Brian And I was like, I thought this is ridiculous.
585
00:26:33.250 --> 00:26:35.549
But Brian did live in, you know, he lives in Brooklyn.
586
00:26:36.589 --> 00:26:38.190
So I kind of called this guy Smuff, gave him
587
00:26:38.210 --> 00:26:41.609
the book, and didn't hear anything. And then about three
588
00:26:41.630 --> 00:26:45.009
weeks later, Owen Bell, who was at BBC Scotland Comedy,
589
00:26:45.049 --> 00:26:46.450
called me up and said, I've just had the oddest
590
00:26:46.490 --> 00:26:48.950
phone call from Brian Cox's manager. He said, when do
591
00:26:48.970 --> 00:26:51.829
you want to make this podcast? And I was like,
592
00:26:51.849 --> 00:26:54.509
this is crazy. So he came and did it. And
593
00:26:54.529 --> 00:26:57.930
then Brian later told me that in his apartment in Brooklyn,
594
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:00.720
his son Alan, who's also an actor, he's actually in
595
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.799
The Gold, great guy, he was over visiting. And Brian
596
00:27:03.819 --> 00:27:06.440
had a big stack of scripts and books in his
597
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:08.329
thing that he'd been sent and he was never going
598
00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:11.930
to get round to looking at. And Alan grabbed the
599
00:27:11.950 --> 00:27:15.210
Bob Servant thing, basically got the toilet, right? So then
600
00:27:15.230 --> 00:27:19.289
he was in the bathroom reading, and Brian heard him laughing,
601
00:27:20.250 --> 00:27:21.630
and he came out and said, what are you up
602
00:27:21.670 --> 00:27:23.710
to in there? And he said, oh, you should do this,
603
00:27:23.730 --> 00:27:26.480
this looks funny, and gave him it, and that's how Brian...
604
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:29.630
So it was the choice of his son's bathroom reading
605
00:27:29.650 --> 00:27:32.829
material basically it's probably where it belongs but so that
606
00:27:32.849 --> 00:27:33.329
was that.
607
00:27:33.190 --> 00:27:35.029
Was your first thing it went to screen went to.
608
00:27:34.990 --> 00:27:37.430
Tv yeah so that made a big thing and then
609
00:27:38.210 --> 00:27:41.450
and then a few years of you know trying and
610
00:27:41.509 --> 00:27:45.299
failing to get another short way in comedy but really
611
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:47.960
kind of wanting to do drama and then it was
612
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.420
uh it was kind of guilt that kind of that
613
00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:52.000
kind of made that that difference really.
614
00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:54.500
It's a pinch yourself moment that in it really yeah
615
00:27:54.819 --> 00:27:58.349
you mentioned brian You mentioned Ricky Ross earlier on at
616
00:27:58.450 --> 00:28:00.490
Big United fans. You were going to the game with
617
00:28:00.529 --> 00:28:03.599
Ricky the night Brian was there. Would you ever think
618
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.640
of considering doing a football themed?
619
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:09.559
I don't know. I mean, I think it's hard with
620
00:28:09.579 --> 00:28:12.130
football because it's like... I tried it. You tried it.
621
00:28:12.329 --> 00:28:15.589
I had Gary Lewis as my manager.
622
00:28:15.609 --> 00:28:16.170
Yeah, brilliant.
623
00:28:16.589 --> 00:28:17.829
He was brilliant.
624
00:28:17.849 --> 00:28:20.430
I've never watched it. Was that a fun experience though?
625
00:28:20.609 --> 00:28:23.869
I absolutely loved it. Even though it was, you know,
626
00:28:24.089 --> 00:28:27.289
we had all these people came along and script, so
627
00:28:27.450 --> 00:28:32.339
we'd done a pilot and it was 30 minutes. It
628
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:36.440
was 30 minutes, like, being extras, all my pals, you know,
629
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:40.400
and I would say Gary Lewis was the main manager
630
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.400
and the main person. But then the whole concept was,
631
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:46.400
like the therapy room it was called, So it was
632
00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:50.579
like a video diary. So it would change every episode.
633
00:28:51.220 --> 00:28:53.039
You know, it would be one player, then it goes
634
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.609
to another player, and you're getting to... Basically, you see
635
00:28:57.109 --> 00:29:00.250
what really happened. Because when we go to the television,
636
00:29:00.630 --> 00:29:03.339
as a manager and a player, we speak to the journalist.
637
00:29:04.180 --> 00:29:06.180
You say, well, what happened in the dressing room? Eh, manager,
638
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:10.440
it was great. But then you actually, the camera goes in,
639
00:29:10.460 --> 00:29:12.950
it's like a fly on the wall. And you, you
640
00:29:13.029 --> 00:29:17.589
fucking useless bastard. It's the reality of what you see
641
00:29:17.630 --> 00:29:20.609
when you're watching the telly and what really happens behind,
642
00:29:21.130 --> 00:29:23.329
because everybody wants to know what the manager says. I
643
00:29:23.349 --> 00:29:27.529
know there's different TV, you know, sports channels. When I
644
00:29:27.549 --> 00:29:30.049
was managing Dundee United, they wanted to put the camera
645
00:29:30.069 --> 00:29:30.789
in the changing room.
646
00:29:31.069 --> 00:29:31.410
Did they?
647
00:29:31.589 --> 00:29:33.380
Without the sound, but then I was like.
648
00:29:33.380 --> 00:29:34.869
Not the club or the TV channel?
649
00:29:34.869 --> 00:29:35.730
No, the TV channel.
650
00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.450
They do it better now, don't they?
651
00:29:38.529 --> 00:29:40.150
Everything we do, we follow America.
652
00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:40.970
Right, yeah.
653
00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:44.440
You know, even doing the subs, we'll be talking about
654
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:48.440
earlier on, the VAR and commercial breaks, hydration breaks, everything
655
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:55.519
we do in football and substitutions, it's just getting so American. Refcams. Refcams.
656
00:29:56.809 --> 00:29:59.039
How did you two handle halftime? How were you divvied up?
657
00:29:59.309 --> 00:30:00.190
Did you go in first?
658
00:30:00.210 --> 00:30:02.130
Good cop, bad cop?
659
00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:06.940
I don't really... Good cop, bad cop. I think sometimes
660
00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:10.980
if you rant and rave, it hits the target once. See,
661
00:30:11.019 --> 00:30:14.180
if you do it over and over, it doesn't become effective.
662
00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:17.299
If you lose it all the time, it's the same
663
00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:19.720
on your side of the park. If you're shouting and
664
00:30:19.779 --> 00:30:23.279
screaming at every decision, whether it just be a throw-in
665
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.400
or it's a penalty... It's like the boy that cried wolf,
666
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.960
because you're the same the whole time. But when you
667
00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:36.049
do react, it's people's like, oh, it must be something there.
668
00:30:36.140 --> 00:30:38.750
I think we were quite calm on the side. I
669
00:30:38.789 --> 00:30:41.809
got sent off a couple of times, one against Tommy Wright,
670
00:30:43.109 --> 00:30:45.670
when they were kicking me goldie. Me and him, we
671
00:30:46.250 --> 00:30:49.619
were coming together, and he's like, is that what you're doing?
672
00:30:49.630 --> 00:30:52.480
You're teaching your guys to kick young players? Brilliant, well done.
673
00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:55.799
He's like, you're fucking Brazil. I said, no, I'm trying
674
00:30:55.819 --> 00:30:57.640
to get them to play football the right way, trying
675
00:30:57.660 --> 00:31:01.079
to make them better. You're a stopper. I'm trying to
676
00:31:01.099 --> 00:31:04.559
stop them and kick them. And he was just, the
677
00:31:04.579 --> 00:31:06.079
two of us got sent off. He was like, you
678
00:31:06.099 --> 00:31:08.099
wee prick. And I was like, you fat bastard. And
679
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.299
the two of us got sent off. And my dad,
680
00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:14.619
my dad's actually the side of the pitch in the
681
00:31:14.660 --> 00:31:17.549
boxes at Tanadise. My dad's like, you all right, son?
682
00:31:17.589 --> 00:31:21.450
He's coming down, he's going to fight Tommy Ride for me. Honest, honest.
683
00:31:22.130 --> 00:31:24.740
But then I said to Simon, you do the press
684
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:28.700
after it. Because I'll end up saying something about it.
685
00:31:29.140 --> 00:31:32.069
And he went in and just kind of diffused it.
686
00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:35.180
And then Tommy's like, I've never been so insulted in
687
00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:37.119
all my life. I was like, I can do a
688
00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:40.240
lot better than that. But it was just that wee
689
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:41.059
thing and that was the.
690
00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:42.359
Ah, quite right, yeah.
691
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:43.680
You know, you're trying to protect your voice.
692
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:44.720
They were so young, those lads.
693
00:31:44.859 --> 00:31:47.940
Yeah. And they were gifted, they were different. And you're,
694
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:51.440
I think... in football week the easiest thing to do
695
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:52.640
is stop.
696
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:54.319
You see the wee boy we were talking about it
697
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:56.859
last night Fleetwood played Arsenal last night and the wee
698
00:31:56.900 --> 00:32:00.079
boy Max Dowman gets sent off now he has a
699
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.750
little lash out after it probably shouldn't do it it's
700
00:32:02.789 --> 00:32:06.210
not much but the potential it's a leg breaking tackle
701
00:32:06.349 --> 00:32:08.500
you know the guy tries to take him out he's 15,
702
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:12.170
16 so there's a balance there but you know the
703
00:32:12.190 --> 00:32:13.289
wee guy ends up getting sent.
704
00:32:13.210 --> 00:32:16.450
Off that's bizarre it was like he's now the manager
705
00:32:16.490 --> 00:32:19.579
at Dundee United So when we were playing St Mirrage.
706
00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:21.900
Yeah, I remember that. It was a challenge on... Stuart Armstrong.
707
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:26.740
Stuart Armstrong. So, like, at the time, right, I actually
708
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:29.859
changed the start and 11 for the first... I said, see,
709
00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:31.420
for the first 10 minutes, because I knew he would
710
00:32:31.460 --> 00:32:33.680
do it to Goldie. I knew he would try and
711
00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:36.799
intimidate or kick me, Goldie, Jim Goodwin. So I put
712
00:32:36.819 --> 00:32:38.900
Goldie in the right to start with, and I put
713
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:41.400
Stuart in the middle and GMS on the left, and
714
00:32:41.529 --> 00:32:44.829
obviously Nads up front. And I said, just for 10 minutes,
715
00:32:44.890 --> 00:32:47.490
till the game settles, I says, then you'll go back
716
00:32:47.509 --> 00:32:50.740
to You know, GMS on the right, Goldie in the
717
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:54.549
middle and Stewart on the left. And what happens? Jim Goodwin, boof,
718
00:32:54.970 --> 00:32:58.650
elbows Stewart and he breaks his cheekbone. Red card and
719
00:32:58.690 --> 00:33:01.549
I'm driving back to Edinburgh after the game and Chick
720
00:33:01.589 --> 00:33:03.970
Young's on the radio, they're opening all mics, the BBC.
721
00:33:05.150 --> 00:33:09.930
Jackie McNamara targeted Jim Goodwin today. I was like, fuck.
722
00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:11.329
So I phoned them while they were on the show
723
00:33:11.349 --> 00:33:13.190
and I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?
724
00:33:13.900 --> 00:33:15.829
I said, you're making out to be the victim, you
725
00:33:15.849 --> 00:33:16.640
could have put.
726
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:18.150
The boy's cheekbone. I said, I actually moved, the young
727
00:33:18.170 --> 00:33:21.710
kid was meant to start there, I moved him there
728
00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:24.049
to start the game. I said, you're making him out
729
00:33:33.809 --> 00:33:36.069
And he came back on the radio check and said,
730
00:33:36.089 --> 00:33:39.710
I've just spoke to Jack, he didn't target Jim Goodwin.
731
00:33:41.490 --> 00:33:45.180
For that team, the players you had there are exciting,
732
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:46.140
isn't it, that crop?
733
00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:47.680
It's a good.
734
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:50.980
Team for a spell, but inevitably you can't keep them.
735
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:54.680
It's hard to get that level. When you were there,
736
00:33:54.700 --> 00:33:57.440
who was so... So we came in in the January.
737
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:03.140
We came in in January. My first game was the Rangers.
738
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:08.500
And then Johnny Russell and Don Dele went to the Rangers.
739
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:12.389
Johnny Russell went to Derby. Obviously with the debt, the
740
00:34:12.429 --> 00:34:15.730
bank took that. And Barry Douglas went to Poland.
741
00:34:15.750 --> 00:34:17.530
That's right. For decent money as well.
742
00:34:17.750 --> 00:34:23.610
So we brought in Robertson. Nadir was in trial. Shifty
743
00:34:23.630 --> 00:34:25.860
was in trial. All the wee boys were coming in.
744
00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:28.440
Then we brought the other ones through, but we had
745
00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:30.900
to slice it all down with the budget, getting everything
746
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.519
getting cut, which is why Peter Houston resigned, because he
747
00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:35.579
couldn't live with the budgets. The kids weren't ready, and
748
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.300
they weren't ready. So we had to live with that
749
00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:41.239
and then grow it. But just as you're getting somewhere,
750
00:34:41.260 --> 00:34:44.190
that first six months with Robertson, we thought he was
751
00:34:44.230 --> 00:34:46.969
going in desperate to try and keep him in the January,
752
00:34:47.469 --> 00:34:49.570
because everybody was coming up to watch him, everyone would
753
00:34:49.590 --> 00:34:51.909
come up to buy him. But we did well to
754
00:34:51.929 --> 00:34:54.610
keep him for the season. And then he went, obviously,
755
00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:57.300
to Hull at the end of that season. Then Goldie went.
756
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:00.699
So they too went. Spain.
757
00:35:00.739 --> 00:35:04.679
It was Portugal, wasn't it? And then the following year,
758
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:08.800
it was, sorry, following January. So you're building another team.
759
00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:10.929
So that was three teams in two and a half years.
760
00:35:10.949 --> 00:35:12.869
Take rid of a lot of debt.
761
00:35:13.510 --> 00:35:16.739
Yeah, difficult. It's a selling club, but it's, it's almost
762
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:18.579
your victim of your own success in terms of those
763
00:35:18.619 --> 00:35:20.940
players because it's so unusual to sell that many in
764
00:35:20.980 --> 00:35:23.280
such a short period it was five and twelve was
765
00:35:23.300 --> 00:35:25.409
it Stephen Thompson at that point was it yeah and
766
00:35:25.429 --> 00:35:27.809
he was just trying to pay down.
767
00:35:27.050 --> 00:35:30.750
But then it became the only bit of regret I've
768
00:35:30.769 --> 00:35:33.969
got personally is not leaving when my contract broke I
769
00:35:33.989 --> 00:35:37.179
should have just resigned and walked out but part of
770
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.360
me was because I thought I could do it again
771
00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:43.019
and I didn't obviously my staff you're looking after your
772
00:35:43.059 --> 00:35:45.840
staff and everything else I thought Because I'd done, that
773
00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:48.210
was my 13, two years, two and a half years.
774
00:35:48.230 --> 00:35:50.829
And I thought, I can do it again. It's going
775
00:35:50.849 --> 00:35:53.150
to take time. You know, like the ones I was
776
00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:55.650
bringing in, because you couldn't afford to buy it, so
777
00:35:55.670 --> 00:35:56.489
you've got to grow it.
778
00:35:56.769 --> 00:35:56.989
Yeah.
779
00:35:57.210 --> 00:35:58.869
And that was my point with Stephen. I was like,
780
00:35:59.510 --> 00:36:01.530
this is when I brought Andy Robertson in a year ago.
781
00:36:02.429 --> 00:36:04.920
We could afford him. 12 months on, we can't.
782
00:36:05.610 --> 00:36:08.619
Hi guys, as you probably well know by now, we
783
00:36:08.659 --> 00:36:13.800
have signed up for the London Marathon next April and
784
00:36:13.820 --> 00:36:17.139
we have some fantastic people supporting us, groups supporting us,
785
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:19.420
we're doing it for a fantastic cause, or two causes,
786
00:36:19.460 --> 00:36:20.059
who are we doing it for?
787
00:36:20.260 --> 00:36:24.460
We're doing it for Headway UK and the Concilium Sports Foundation.
788
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:28.679
Yep, so we're going to have some updated videos of
789
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.000
our progress and our training and everything else it takes
790
00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:35.130
to get us over the line. He's emphasised that time
791
00:36:35.150 --> 00:36:35.809
doesn't matter.
792
00:36:35.829 --> 00:36:38.889
I probably agree. As long as we complete it.
793
00:36:39.070 --> 00:36:44.650
There'll be a link in the bio for any charity donations.
794
00:36:44.969 --> 00:36:46.389
We're going to be raising as much money as we
795
00:36:46.429 --> 00:36:49.539
can over the next period of time. Our training starts
796
00:36:49.659 --> 00:36:53.619
very soon. And yeah, look forward to some updates on here.
797
00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:54.639
Hopefully no injuries.
798
00:36:55.219 --> 00:36:57.480
Right, because he went for £ 3 million. Yeah, yeah. And
799
00:36:57.559 --> 00:36:58.960
that's what you've got to do. You've got to teach
800
00:36:59.019 --> 00:37:01.800
and grow. Because we can't back... That's why the club
801
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.960
was in... the position it was in before because they've
802
00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:06.130
overspent and overdone it.
803
00:37:06.219 --> 00:37:07.590
Well, we bought a lot of players that were just
804
00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:09.690
towards the end of their careers and spent a lot
805
00:37:09.710 --> 00:37:10.630
of money on them.
806
00:37:11.010 --> 00:37:12.869
The cup final never helped things.
807
00:37:13.030 --> 00:37:16.610
St Johnson. St Johnson. One game can change everything. One game.
808
00:37:16.630 --> 00:37:17.929
They were our bogey team that year.
809
00:37:17.949 --> 00:37:18.610
We beat them, I think.
810
00:37:18.650 --> 00:37:20.230
We beat them in the first game of the season.
811
00:37:20.369 --> 00:37:22.010
And we weren't that great. We couldn't beat them again.
812
00:37:22.090 --> 00:37:24.730
They were our bogey team. When you look back at
813
00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:29.289
that final, the four or five superstars never really.
814
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:32.559
Yeah, it was a strange game that. It didn't really
815
00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:33.079
get going.
816
00:37:33.139 --> 00:37:34.219
Hit the underside of the bar.
817
00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:36.219
That's right. It was Dow.
818
00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:42.469
Who hit the inside of the post. But they were
819
00:37:42.530 --> 00:37:45.849
the better team of the day. But without, you know,
820
00:37:45.869 --> 00:37:48.050
the first goal comes from the corner just at half-time.
821
00:37:48.230 --> 00:37:50.750
Rado comes out and misses it and he's got the
822
00:37:50.769 --> 00:37:52.349
head at the back post and then they get the
823
00:37:52.369 --> 00:37:56.059
breakaway which kills the game. When we were playing them,
824
00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:58.929
you really had to get the first goal to make
825
00:37:58.949 --> 00:38:01.730
them come out because there were a lot of experienced
826
00:38:01.769 --> 00:38:03.809
players that was a big day.
827
00:38:04.469 --> 00:38:07.980
The Celtic semi-final that was a good Celtic team isn't it?
828
00:38:08.389 --> 00:38:11.610
It was but again when you go back to it
829
00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:13.860
when Dillow got sent off but he actually.
830
00:38:13.579 --> 00:38:15.559
He was off for ages getting his do you know
831
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.019
I remember screaming probably at you too.
832
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:20.539
What's going on? I still remember that he was off
833
00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:22.199
He was away for about 10 minutes or something and
834
00:38:22.219 --> 00:38:28.679
then he came back off Because he had stitches in
835
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:29.139
his shin.
836
00:38:29.179 --> 00:38:29.760
That's right.
837
00:38:30.070 --> 00:38:31.869
And then he comes in and he gets a red card.
838
00:38:31.889 --> 00:38:33.230
That's exactly what happened.
839
00:38:33.250 --> 00:38:35.889
Because I kept turning around the bench for the technical
840
00:38:35.929 --> 00:38:39.550
area because you're so far away. I went, fuck is he?
841
00:38:39.630 --> 00:38:41.070
I remember you doing that because I was in the,
842
00:38:41.110 --> 00:38:42.800
for some reason I was in the main stand bit down,
843
00:38:42.909 --> 00:38:44.860
I was just behind and I still remember going, this
844
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:46.659
is not mine. Because we're actually, there's nothing in the game.
845
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:48.440
And then he brought it back on and within a
846
00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:50.579
minute he's back down. I mean the guy must have
847
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:53.059
been putting away his stitches as he came back in
848
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:55.099
at the chain. I don't know. But that was, what
849
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:56.409
was the semi we had with Celtic?
850
00:38:56.469 --> 00:38:56.809
It was 4-3.
851
00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:01.800
That was the first season. That was an incredible game.
852
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:05.170
That was that lovely breakaway goal with Gold and Castiel
853
00:39:05.210 --> 00:39:08.210
and they just kept giving it to each other. I
854
00:39:08.230 --> 00:39:10.289
might watch that in New York actually.
855
00:39:10.610 --> 00:39:14.250
Who's your favourite United team then?
856
00:39:14.969 --> 00:39:18.750
Well, the 94 Cup final for me was a huge
857
00:39:18.809 --> 00:39:22.030
focus because we hadn't won the Cup before then. It
858
00:39:22.050 --> 00:39:25.269
was our seventh. I'd been to a number of the
859
00:39:25.329 --> 00:39:28.309
ones that were so miserable before. a really tough one
860
00:39:28.349 --> 00:39:30.510
was Motherwell 91 do you remember that? I was there
861
00:39:30.530 --> 00:39:35.099
you were there and Motherwell Phil scored.
862
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.679
Phil scored Darren Jackson scored went on to be my
863
00:39:37.699 --> 00:39:41.480
team mates Stevie Kirk Stevie Kirk but with a Motherwell
864
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:44.840
supporting friend who took me I was just a kid,
865
00:39:44.860 --> 00:39:46.960
it was a year before I signed for Celtic it
866
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.579
was a hell of a final obviously not for you guys.
867
00:39:50.380 --> 00:39:52.380
I went with my uncle Jimmy and I just couldn't
868
00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:54.900
believe it, it was swinging end to end 4-3, did
869
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:59.159
it finish 4-3? Yeah after extra time so that was
870
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:05.250
heartbreaking and then 94 you're like, strangers everything about that
871
00:40:05.289 --> 00:40:06.949
game was so mad the fact it was even goal
872
00:40:07.250 --> 00:40:09.889
actually we Jim had gone after all those years he
873
00:40:09.909 --> 00:40:14.619
had this kind of borderline lunatic, who was just like
874
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:17.590
night and day. David Bowman always says it was from
875
00:40:17.610 --> 00:40:20.030
McLean to Golatch was going like cold hits to Bucklands.
876
00:40:20.469 --> 00:40:22.489
Because it was like Golatch was just taking for walks
877
00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:25.090
in Camberdown Park and stuff, you know, and tell them
878
00:40:25.110 --> 00:40:29.539
to smell the flowers. And then we went through there.
879
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:32.420
So you went through, you know, with very little hope,
880
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:35.369
you know, hope rather than expectations. I remember going to
881
00:40:35.389 --> 00:40:37.530
the post office bar on the ferry, but you maybe know,
882
00:40:37.550 --> 00:40:39.250
like at eight in the morning and you knocked on
883
00:40:39.269 --> 00:40:41.030
the back door and you'd get a pint and the bus,
884
00:40:41.210 --> 00:40:45.969
bus three and 16 there would have been. And we
885
00:40:45.989 --> 00:40:49.250
just played so well. I watched the extended highlights of
886
00:40:49.269 --> 00:40:51.369
that recently and I was like, we're just brilliant. And
887
00:40:51.389 --> 00:40:55.110
that Rangers, they were up for double treble. They were
888
00:40:55.130 --> 00:40:58.449
up for it. And their team is unbelievable. And I
889
00:40:58.809 --> 00:41:00.730
think by the end of the game, I think they
890
00:41:00.750 --> 00:41:06.030
had up front... from memory, McCoy, Haley, Duncan Ferguson, and Mikhailochenko,
891
00:41:06.269 --> 00:41:09.110
you know, all just, they banged the floor up, and
892
00:41:09.329 --> 00:41:13.570
it was, and we just, just, just so composed, and confident,
893
00:41:13.610 --> 00:41:16.969
knocked it about, like, if you watch those highlights, and that,
894
00:41:17.090 --> 00:41:21.030
and also, Craig Brewster's scoring, as a childhood, childhood United fan,
895
00:41:21.829 --> 00:41:26.159
so that was a, the Barcelona game, that game, stand out,
896
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:28.469
you know, a lot for me, you know, in terms
897
00:41:28.510 --> 00:41:31.889
of just, brilliant, but then you have these, There was
898
00:41:31.909 --> 00:41:33.670
other games like when we were in the playoffs against
899
00:41:33.710 --> 00:41:35.780
Partick Thistle. Don't know if either of you, you wouldn't
900
00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:37.820
have been involved in that in any way, but it was,
901
00:41:38.179 --> 00:41:41.280
Dunfermline won the league. So we went down, Billy Kirkwood
902
00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:45.260
was the manager. Big Leash took Dunfermline up. and do
903
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:48.000
this aeroplane stuff and win the pitch and then we
904
00:41:48.019 --> 00:41:49.760
got because you weren't doing film you were.
905
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:51.500
Playing were you not playing that game was that the
906
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.699
game that we beat you that was what got you
907
00:41:54.739 --> 00:41:56.619
up we staved the elevation at Tanadar.
908
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:58.260
That was the aeroplane so you staved the elevation and
909
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.260
that was the aeroplane and then.
910
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:03.099
I set Gary Mason up in big leash.
911
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:06.860
That's right for the aeroplane celebrations and I think he
912
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:08.980
did a little callback of it anyway so they won
913
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.010
the league when we were in the first division so
914
00:42:11.610 --> 00:42:15.449
we were in the playoff with Thistle Won 1-0 through there.
915
00:42:16.909 --> 00:42:21.559
Tannis went down 1-0. Ian Cameron, was it, the full-back? Yeah,
916
00:42:22.099 --> 00:42:25.440
I think so. Anyway, Thistle went 1-0 up. And that was,
917
00:42:25.460 --> 00:42:34.409
you know... And then... Brian Welsh... Sorry, we drew it
918
00:42:34.429 --> 00:42:36.550
for a 1-0. Christian Daly scored. So when they went
919
00:42:36.570 --> 00:42:39.309
1-0 up at Tannis, they were winning. Deep, deep in
920
00:42:39.349 --> 00:42:43.429
injury time. Tannis packed... And that's like, God, if we
921
00:42:43.449 --> 00:42:45.030
don't go up here, we're in real trouble. That was
922
00:42:45.050 --> 00:42:46.769
the stage where a lot of clubs were hitting proper
923
00:42:46.829 --> 00:42:51.409
financial problems. And Andy McLaren kind of gets the ball
924
00:42:51.429 --> 00:42:53.909
in front of the executive boxers on that right wing.
925
00:42:54.389 --> 00:42:57.030
And only Andy McLaren would have done it. He could
926
00:42:57.070 --> 00:42:59.920
have gone back to the full-back, he was wide open,
927
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:03.980
and he's just spun the full-back, hit the thing, chipped
928
00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:07.829
over Brian Welsh... Big centre half, stayed forward, got on
929
00:43:07.869 --> 00:43:10.530
a diving header and that celebration I think was probably
930
00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:12.420
the best ever at Tannan. It's just the relief of
931
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.320
it and then Owen Coyle got the winner in extra time.
932
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:18.460
So I think those three games, Barcelona, 94 Cup final
933
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:20.300
and beating Parted this on the play-off to kind of
934
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:22.539
save ourselves a bit and get back up.
935
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.920
It's funny how you remember things. As you're talking about celebrations,
936
00:43:25.940 --> 00:43:29.239
remember to make top six that first season?
937
00:43:30.340 --> 00:43:34.940
United against Aberdeen yes yeah.
938
00:43:33.849 --> 00:43:36.090
Rory Bolden it was the only time I seen Stephen
939
00:43:36.130 --> 00:43:40.269
Thompson smile Rory Bolden that's right Rory Bolden scores and
940
00:43:41.130 --> 00:43:42.650
he cuddles me in the tunnel.
941
00:43:42.429 --> 00:43:45.570
Because it was a huge financial you get the money
942
00:43:45.610 --> 00:43:49.130
right away if you in the bottom six you don't
943
00:43:49.170 --> 00:43:51.329
get to the end of the season then the club.
944
00:43:51.179 --> 00:43:54.059
Was in trouble financially at that point.
945
00:43:53.900 --> 00:43:57.000
When we were there yeah and that was the only
946
00:43:57.019 --> 00:43:58.940
time it was the only time we had any emotion
947
00:43:58.980 --> 00:44:01.820
from him But it was relief, you know.
948
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:04.639
Those young lads you had, who do you think was
949
00:44:04.659 --> 00:44:07.219
the most exciting day in, day out at training?
950
00:44:08.099 --> 00:44:11.929
I would think, I mean, technically, I think wee Goldie.
951
00:44:12.250 --> 00:44:17.349
I loved watching him because he was three steps ahead.
952
00:44:17.369 --> 00:44:20.610
I think it was, for me, I was frustrated a
953
00:44:20.630 --> 00:44:23.239
wee bit with him because sometimes you want to shake him.
954
00:44:23.900 --> 00:44:24.519
You know, he was just.
955
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:29.079
Very laid back and if you look at his career
956
00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:34.840
he's had a good career for what he had he
957
00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:38.050
was three moves ahead on the pitch it's tough you
958
00:44:38.070 --> 00:44:42.429
can't teach it's why you try to build a team
959
00:44:42.469 --> 00:44:44.570
around him put him in the 10 and give him
960
00:44:44.610 --> 00:44:49.769
that freedom the game you're talking about at Hampden the
961
00:44:49.809 --> 00:44:53.739
semi-final with Mackay Steven. So we were in the dressing
962
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.239
room at half time and they had the goal up
963
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:58.699
on the telly. And I'm saying to him there, cause
964
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:02.179
it was Effie Ambrose who was playing centre half for Celtic.
965
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:03.840
And I said to him, I said, I thought you
966
00:45:03.860 --> 00:45:07.059
were going to just go and shoot yourself. Eh, me man.
967
00:45:07.179 --> 00:45:09.659
He went, he said, I seen Ambrose take a step there.
968
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:12.050
So I knew if I put it there, he couldn't
969
00:45:12.090 --> 00:45:14.750
get there. And that's, I went, aye, good, well done.
970
00:45:14.769 --> 00:45:17.849
See what I mean? But that was his wee football,
971
00:45:17.989 --> 00:45:21.019
you know, stuff you, they see things and they go
972
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:25.550
in that split second. But he'd wait a pass, his
973
00:45:25.570 --> 00:45:27.289
decision making for a young kid was.
974
00:45:27.710 --> 00:45:30.429
And Robertson obviously with the desire and hunger.
975
00:45:31.510 --> 00:45:33.769
For us, I'd rather... Every day. Right.
976
00:45:34.010 --> 00:45:36.469
Just every day. You knew he was going to... I
977
00:45:36.489 --> 00:45:39.869
didn't quite anticipate the levels he'd get to in European
978
00:45:40.710 --> 00:45:41.489
Champions League winner.
979
00:45:41.690 --> 00:45:41.809
Yeah.
980
00:45:42.110 --> 00:45:44.219
But you knew he was going to work hard.
981
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:46.019
Reminds me a bit of Christian Daly, you know, just
982
00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:49.420
the work, you know, an athlete, basically.
983
00:45:49.619 --> 00:45:51.800
Max and I is different than they've got, you know,
984
00:45:51.860 --> 00:45:55.449
and just be that determination, you know, maybe that was
985
00:45:56.250 --> 00:45:58.170
the kind of change for him was getting released from
986
00:45:58.210 --> 00:46:01.010
Celtic to just go, I'm going to prove you wrong.
987
00:46:01.409 --> 00:46:03.409
You know, you see it with so many kids, that's
988
00:46:03.429 --> 00:46:05.929
what I'd say to all the lads that have been
989
00:46:05.969 --> 00:46:09.280
released or there, and that's why in management, that's what
990
00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:13.590
I went after, because they were hungry. So all the
991
00:46:13.630 --> 00:46:16.989
kids that were released from other worlds, from Hearts, from Hibs,
992
00:46:17.780 --> 00:46:20.139
you're sort of giving them that second chance to go, right,
993
00:46:20.900 --> 00:46:22.860
here's your opportunity, go and prove them wrong.
994
00:46:23.260 --> 00:46:25.119
And they know it's their last chance as well, it
995
00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:27.139
makes a big difference. I think what's interesting with those
996
00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:30.559
players as well, that half dozen or so, almost all
997
00:46:30.579 --> 00:46:33.519
of them went on and achieved. You know, so many
998
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:35.840
of the times, teams like United, they'll go to Celtic
999
00:46:35.900 --> 00:46:37.619
or Rangers and it's the end of them, really. Yeah.
1000
00:46:38.150 --> 00:46:42.000
I think the biggest one that didn't for me was
1001
00:46:42.199 --> 00:46:43.320
Nads Nadir.
1002
00:46:43.340 --> 00:46:44.340
No, that's true, yeah.
1003
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:46.340
So Nads, if you look at Nads' career, it was
1004
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.130
only his best spell was that year with us.
1005
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:50.380
Yeah, definitely.
1006
00:46:50.380 --> 00:46:54.059
23 goals. But he was a maverick for us. You know,
1007
00:46:54.619 --> 00:46:56.900
he got treated differently. He got away with a lot.
1008
00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:57.920
He needed managed.
1009
00:46:57.940 --> 00:46:59.019
He needed managed.
1010
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:01.440
I mean, was he light off the pitch?
1011
00:47:01.460 --> 00:47:01.820
Good lad.
1012
00:47:02.019 --> 00:47:02.889
Yeah.
1013
00:47:03.139 --> 00:47:04.110
Respectful.
1014
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:05.869
Great lad. Just lost the plot.
1015
00:47:05.889 --> 00:47:06.730
But in the first.
1016
00:47:06.769 --> 00:47:09.300
He'd see red on the... It was hard to manage,
1017
00:47:09.380 --> 00:47:10.260
but it was worth it.
1018
00:47:10.429 --> 00:47:11.969
If you know what I mean. And we got, what,
1019
00:47:11.969 --> 00:47:14.230
20 plus goals at him?
1020
00:47:14.230 --> 00:47:14.369
23.
1021
00:47:14.369 --> 00:47:16.289
I actually thought he'd be a big success at Celtic,
1022
00:47:16.329 --> 00:47:19.250
but went there and just kind of got lost in
1023
00:47:19.269 --> 00:47:20.469
the size of the place a wee bit.
1024
00:47:20.889 --> 00:47:25.039
When he first signed pre-season, he had a thing in
1025
00:47:25.059 --> 00:47:28.119
the training ground with Andy Robertson. The two of them
1026
00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:31.639
were squaring up to fight, fighting with each other. And
1027
00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:35.300
I sent him in. I sent him off in training.
1028
00:47:35.860 --> 00:47:37.730
And then they carried on the training and I walked
1029
00:47:37.809 --> 00:47:41.230
in to the pavilion at St Andrews and he's sitting
1030
00:47:41.250 --> 00:47:42.869
there like that in the changing room and I says
1031
00:47:42.889 --> 00:47:48.050
right into my office and I was like what the
1032
00:47:48.190 --> 00:47:50.349
fuck are you doing and he's sitting in my office
1033
00:47:50.929 --> 00:47:53.090
and he's put his head down but I knew he
1034
00:47:53.130 --> 00:47:55.250
thought I was just going to come in from where
1035
00:47:55.269 --> 00:47:58.349
maybe he'd been before so I started laughing I went
1036
00:47:58.369 --> 00:48:01.130
what are you doing and he looked at me and
1037
00:48:01.190 --> 00:48:04.170
he went oh what am I like you know sorry
1038
00:48:04.190 --> 00:48:06.889
Gaffer and he went round to see Andy and apologised
1039
00:48:06.949 --> 00:48:10.599
but he'd just go to red so quickly, you know,
1040
00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:15.090
but then he realised it's like, you know, just calm down,
1041
00:48:15.690 --> 00:48:19.090
it's not worth fighting over your team mate.
1042
00:48:19.289 --> 00:48:22.230
I remember he used to just, at kick-offs, just dribble.
1043
00:48:22.250 --> 00:48:24.829
I remember he'd just go straight off. Down that slope.
1044
00:48:24.889 --> 00:48:25.639
He was good for us.
1045
00:48:25.690 --> 00:48:27.690
He was a really good boy, deep down, although he
1046
00:48:27.710 --> 00:48:37.829
had a lot of anger issues, shall we say, but
1047
00:48:38.010 --> 00:48:42.590
he was, even the, his last game for us, the derby,
1048
00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:48.059
the 3-0 one at Tenedyce against Dundee. So, it's the
1049
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:53.260
one where he's came out after the game and he's,
1050
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:57.230
that gaffer, they're saying I bit their player. I said, well,
1051
00:48:57.250 --> 00:49:00.070
did you? He went, no, no, I swear, I never,
1052
00:49:00.670 --> 00:49:02.730
I said, well, what you worried about then? He said, no, honestly,
1053
00:49:02.769 --> 00:49:04.710
I never bit him. So I went out to do
1054
00:49:04.730 --> 00:49:09.269
the press after the game And that's like, Nad's just
1055
00:49:09.309 --> 00:49:13.099
not done anything. My player's innocent. And I get a
1056
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.360
call later on, Nad's phone's me at night. I might
1057
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.130
have had a wee chunk of him. It's like.
1058
00:49:18.699 --> 00:49:19.719
you're a.
1059
00:49:19.739 --> 00:49:23.190
Fucking bastard I'm defending you you know what I mean
1060
00:49:23.269 --> 00:49:26.360
I said Gaffer I'm really sorry he's like right into
1061
00:49:26.380 --> 00:49:28.519
me and he caught me and then he's like I
1062
00:49:28.659 --> 00:49:34.349
had a wee nibble so obviously transpired the forensic stuff
1063
00:49:34.409 --> 00:49:37.090
on with the teeth marks and pushing it I think
1064
00:49:37.130 --> 00:49:39.389
he got and then we obviously sold him to Celtic
1065
00:49:39.409 --> 00:49:43.250
then because Stephen Thompson's like he'll not play he's suspended
1066
00:49:43.269 --> 00:49:45.090
we'll not get all the money and da da da
1067
00:49:45.110 --> 00:49:48.539
da and he got 8 games banned for Celtic yeah.
1068
00:49:48.619 --> 00:49:51.980
I remember that it's the lunatic great player though brilliant
1069
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.420
guy just exciting players he had then Well.
1070
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:55.940
Neil, you've been a great guest. I want to touch
1071
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:58.559
on one thing before we wrap it up.
1072
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:01.699
The soundtrack for Legends. Yeah. Your choice.
1073
00:50:01.820 --> 00:50:05.260
Yeah, yeah. And others, you know.
1074
00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.920
Obviously that timeline, but any of your favourites in there?
1075
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:11.119
What a great period of music. But no, it's a
1076
00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:15.619
conversation with directors and producers and story producers and everything else.
1077
00:50:16.659 --> 00:50:19.860
I tend to make a playlist up when I'm writing.
1078
00:50:21.590 --> 00:50:23.469
and some of them will make sometimes when I write
1079
00:50:23.510 --> 00:50:26.050
the script I think of a song then sometimes you
1080
00:50:26.110 --> 00:50:28.130
just wait and see what happens in the edit but
1081
00:50:28.710 --> 00:50:31.090
yeah great period for music The Gold as well was
1082
00:50:31.110 --> 00:50:32.909
good but getting into the 90s and then the second
1083
00:50:32.929 --> 00:50:35.940
series of Legends moving a bit more into the 90s
1084
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.039
that's when it gets even more exciting for me Can
1085
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:42.800
you walk on parts going for us? Leave me your
1086
00:50:42.820 --> 00:50:45.159
details Before.
1087
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:47.969
We let you go we normally get a recommendation off
1088
00:50:48.010 --> 00:50:51.300
our previous guest who was George Bowie and it's an
1089
00:50:51.409 --> 00:50:54.329
album a film and a song and funnily enough the
1090
00:50:54.369 --> 00:50:57.630
song features on legends set you free in.
1091
00:50:57.550 --> 00:50:59.690
Trance oh really yeah that was what he picked that's
1092
00:50:59.710 --> 00:51:01.929
how he picks this song is it good song do
1093
00:51:01.949 --> 00:51:05.230
you know it's funny with that song so that uh
1094
00:51:05.369 --> 00:51:07.489
i love that exactly it takes you back to probably
1095
00:51:07.510 --> 00:51:10.070
some nightclub clubs yeah yeah so for me the mardi
1096
00:51:10.090 --> 00:51:12.849
gras and dundee yeah been in it yeah yeah and
1097
00:51:12.989 --> 00:51:18.230
um yeah and uh uh just really liked it anyway
1098
00:51:18.510 --> 00:51:21.130
it was it i think they we still open legends
1099
00:51:21.170 --> 00:51:23.710
see this one as 91 and i think the song
1100
00:51:23.809 --> 00:51:25.929
was 93 or something came out and i'm going to
1101
00:51:25.989 --> 00:51:29.489
use it and it has i'll get i'll get messages
1102
00:51:29.530 --> 00:51:31.889
about this because it's amazing what people message about they
1103
00:51:31.909 --> 00:51:34.250
get angry about things being out of time or whatever
1104
00:51:35.230 --> 00:51:39.139
anyway sure enough came out great reception to legends and
1105
00:51:39.219 --> 00:51:42.820
i probably get contacted by maybe a dozen people you
1106
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:46.559
know strangers oh, that song didn't come out tonight. Three-week player,
1107
00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:48.219
and I'm really angry about it.
1108
00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:49.199
You got the years wrong.
1109
00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:51.500
But what I always reply to these people, I always say, yeah,
1110
00:51:52.139 --> 00:51:54.920
what it is, is the guy that had the party
1111
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:58.380
in the scene, his dad's a janny at a sound studio,
1112
00:51:58.460 --> 00:52:01.449
and he got a bootleg copy. I send this long story,
1113
00:52:01.550 --> 00:52:03.780
and they're obviously like, take it at best, but I'm
1114
00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:06.469
so serious about the song. It's like I've given this
1115
00:52:06.510 --> 00:52:11.730
guy a whole backstory. So anyway, that just fitted brilliantly.
1116
00:52:11.750 --> 00:52:12.389
It's a good tactic.
1117
00:52:12.510 --> 00:52:12.690
Yeah.
1118
00:52:13.650 --> 00:52:17.460
So that's his song. Film is Private Parts with Howard Stern.
1119
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:19.519
Right, okay, yeah, yeah. Have you seen it? Yeah, biopic
1120
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:20.179
of Howard Stern, yeah.
1121
00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:22.699
And his album was Kev and Perry Go Larch, the
1122
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.059
soundtrack for that, which I stuck on in the car
1123
00:52:25.099 --> 00:52:25.760
after he'd woken up.
1124
00:52:25.780 --> 00:52:26.739
It was the 90s as well.
1125
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:29.170
With some good tunes on. So we need a film
1126
00:52:29.250 --> 00:52:32.590
off you, a song and an album for our next guest.
1127
00:52:32.769 --> 00:52:35.510
Well, film, I think film I'll go Trainspotting, a very
1128
00:52:35.590 --> 00:52:39.050
obvious choice, but Trainspotting for me and Irvine in general,
1129
00:52:39.150 --> 00:52:42.179
Irvine's work, you know, like growing up in Dundee, it's like,
1130
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:44.360
it was just that voice of it and I read
1131
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.800
Trainspotting when I was very young and it was like
1132
00:52:46.820 --> 00:52:49.019
this is this is mad and the film just such
1133
00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:52.199
confidence and humour you know that's the big thing got
1134
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:54.900
humour within it you can have one scene where there's
1135
00:52:54.940 --> 00:52:58.079
a baby dying as a result of neglect and the
1136
00:52:58.099 --> 00:53:00.559
next scene is darkly humorous and getting that mix right
1137
00:53:00.820 --> 00:53:04.639
so hard so John Hodge writing Danny Boyle and Irvine
1138
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:06.619
you know masterpiece.
1139
00:53:06.099 --> 00:53:10.789
I think for me Trainspotting good one a song and
1140
00:53:11.690 --> 00:53:14.940
an album album I'll say Blonde on Blonde Bob Dylan
1141
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:17.559
so because I love that.
1142
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:20.380
Yeah my dad my influence from my dad oh right
1143
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.489
did he give you yeah the tapes and so that
1144
00:53:22.780 --> 00:53:25.690
I bought that from Groucho's record shop in Dundee Blonde
1145
00:53:25.710 --> 00:53:27.630
on Blonde it's got my favourite Bob Dylan song on
1146
00:53:27.670 --> 00:53:28.989
it Visions of Johanna which.
1147
00:53:29.090 --> 00:53:32.449
Is like six and a half minute epic so Blonde
1148
00:53:32.489 --> 00:53:37.050
on Blonde for me and then song because yeah Legends
1149
00:53:37.050 --> 00:53:39.400
2 I'm listening to creeping a bit more into the
1150
00:53:39.820 --> 00:53:42.579
90s and also it was such a huge band for
1151
00:53:42.619 --> 00:53:46.380
me I'll go for Oasis and I can't decide between
1152
00:53:46.420 --> 00:53:48.980
Champion Supernova or Don't Look Back in Anger so I
1153
00:53:48.980 --> 00:53:51.920
think I'll go Don't Look Back in Anger but those songs,
1154
00:53:51.980 --> 00:53:54.019
that album at the time was like for me I
1155
00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:58.239
was with my mates in Broughty Ferry in my pal's
1156
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:01.260
house you know drinking and waiting to get a taxi
1157
00:54:01.300 --> 00:54:03.139
up to the Mardi Gras and the excitement of it
1158
00:54:03.659 --> 00:54:07.130
but I've been I don't think it'll be I can
1159
00:54:07.170 --> 00:54:09.809
pretty confidently say there'll be some sort of oasis I'd
1160
00:54:09.829 --> 00:54:11.409
hope in Legends 2 and I've been listening to the
1161
00:54:11.429 --> 00:54:13.849
playing up today it's a lot of those tracks and
1162
00:54:13.869 --> 00:54:16.269
those areas as I write the script so great band
1163
00:54:16.329 --> 00:54:19.719
and such a kind of exciting exciting time
1164
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:23.320
Looking forward to even more now thanks for coming on
1165
00:54:23.340 --> 00:54:25.119
sorry again about the defeat tonight