Nathan: Well, we are back, back, back again for another episode of the Nobody Puts Markets In The Corner podcast. I'm delighted today to be joined by Anna Murphy from ARC. Anna, before we get into kind of the nitty gritty of what we're going to chat about today, do you mind just give us a brief introduction, tell us a about you, a about ARC, just so anyone listening can get a bit more of an understanding.
Anna: So hi, I'm Anna. I'm Head of Marketing at Arc, and we are a IT MSP with customers all across the UK. We service over around 1,000 businesses. We started in 1992, so we've been around for a while. And over the last few years, we've grown from around 60 person head count to, think, our current one is around 175. And as part of that as well, Sorry, can we start again? This is fucking awful. Sorry. No, no,
Nathan: Have a good time, but you can't do it.
Anna: no, no. I was like, this is, I'm just going into like marketing field. Can we start? I'm so sorry. And then that's my last, that's my last one.
Nathan: Go for it, yeah. So, like, if you could
Anna: John, okay. Right.
Nathan: tell us a little bit our activity, we'll just cut from where I started to kind of you
Anna: Okay.
Nathan: coming in now,
Anna: So hi, I'm Anna and I am head of marketing at Arc. We are a UK based IT MSP. We've got around a thousand customers. across a variety of sectors. And in terms of our core service offering, whilst we have a traditional IT help desk, we also have a lot of capability across all of the Microsoft stack, but also in cyber security and through merger and acquisitions, we were growing that capability as well. So it's quite an exciting time to be part of Arc and I'm sure I'll tell you more about it in a moment.
Nathan: nice thank you i think it's always good just give a brief overview yeah obviously this is a channel podcast just to give people a flavor of you know kind of teeing up the episode i suppose who is this person what sort of business they're from i think it's always good to try and understand how people got to this this and it's a bit cliche at this point now because all the episodes predating this i call it the weird and wonderful place but i think it's just really interesting to understand people's perspectives their journeys up to here so you started working for arc just kind of like just give us a bit of an overview a bit of a brief CV of kind of your previous market experience up to this point.
Anna: Well, I totally fell into marketing by accident. I did English at uni and then went straight into journalism. So I was working at women's magazines and national newspapers in London for the first five years of my career. Left there, curve ball, left there to then go into secondary school teaching. I taught English in inner city
Nathan: Okay.
Anna: Nottingham schools. And then teaching is a brilliant career, but it was not for me. And when I left, there, I tried to think about what transferable skills I had, and I applied for a job at a Nottingham based IT MSP. And they gave me a job, they took a total chance on me, and I went and handled their communications and from there went into marketing agencies, and then onto Arc. So it's been a bit of a mixed bag,
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: but it also I think has led me to a point where all of those skills have really come into play over this last year. yeah, I'm not a marketer by, I was about to say by trade, but by background.
Nathan: was gonna say, definitely a marketer. If there's a salary hit in the bank at the end of the month, you are a marketer, I
Anna: Hahaha
Nathan: pray. I mean, I thought it'd quite interesting. It's a of a boomerang, isn't it? You've gone really off track to begin with in terms of kind of the channels. Basically, you know, I did very much the same. I did a law degree. Realized it wasn't for me. Then ended up kind of in marketing and kind of the last probably almost two decades, kind of I've been on that marketing trajectory. But in very different guises, in-house agency, non-channel, channel. kind of talk us through what it was like transitioning from, I mean let's do each of the stages because they're very very different you know you've gone into journalism, you've written for some women's magazines on a national level as you've just said, then you've gone into teaching, then you've gone into channel in-house, then you've gone agency, then you've come back into channel, I mean they are some serious transitions, what was it like throughout each of those stages?
Anna: know that transferable skills is something that people talk about and it almost, you when people say, but you can present or you can, I don't know, like manage a meeting or something like that. But actually, when I look at the sort of the common threads throughout my career, when I was at women's magazines, a lot of the stories that I was writing in terms of features were people's. real life stories. really, and through that, you really get a sense of people about not only different walks of life, but also people's motivations. And then going into teaching again, you are essentially, so I taught English and you're, and for me being secondary school and I often taught in nine years, 10 years, 11, so obviously GCSE years. And you're basically selling to a room of people that don't want to buy from you. And
Nathan: Thank
Anna: taking that into marketing. So both the background in terms of almost an insight into human behavior, very light touch psychology, and then into teaching where you're kind of living that. And also, like I said, selling essentially, and trying to get people on side has moving into a role that has got obviously marketing, but also a lot of communications across multiple levels of stakeholders. actually has been so many things I've been having to pull on this last year so it might seem random but actually it's kind of, yeah, seven differences, it's all turned out quite well.
Nathan: think that's a very good point. I think that selling to kids and trying to get them to buy investments in their own education, I think is something that I've never really considered. I think everything is ultimately, whether you call it manipulation, whether you call enticing, selling to, everything is the same. I think marketing is just the one discipline, the one profession where that is the bread and butter of what you do. It's not the way you make it happen. It's ultimately what we are here for. Let's talk about the channel experience and obviously you've done some time in Nottingham, then you've taken a break out from channel gardening agency, then you've come back into channel. How has that channel experience been? we maybe, you can maybe focus on more on the arc last kind of 12, 18 months, I know how long you've been in post now, but kind of what's that been like? And I suppose it'd be really good to understand how different was it back then versus now.
Anna: I guess, sort of two things. On the one hand, when I first joined, moving from teaching to an MSP was, I... It's not that I was arrogant to think there wouldn't be things to learn. It's just that I had no idea how much I would have to learn. And especially when you are in a comms role where it is your job to communicate to the external world and sound like you know what you're doing. That was a baptism of fire. And I was really lucky to be very well supported. we, my previous company, there were a lot of people that were happy to help with thought leadership. And I had a boss who was quite invested in that as well. so all of that was great. But then coming out of those few years, and whilst I was at agency, I did have a few clients that I worked with that were still in the channel. So I kind of kept my hand in a little bit. then coming out and then like, sorry, back, so out of agency, back into the IT landscape. It's funny, isn't it? Because there were certain buzzwords at the time of my... the last MSP and I remember it was almost like everyone was talking about blockchain. People were obsessed with blockchain.
Nathan: Ha
Anna: There would be like SaaS products being launched. like, they've got blockchain principles and you're sort of thing. I was
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: actually mean, that's just marketing spin and it was, and then like I said, I had a few years out and then coming back in and that's kind of gone, but then different buzzwords have come in. And I would even say from a marketing perspective, I would say there's even certain phrases that I don't really recall people using in the same way and I'm almost reticent to say what they are in case anyone's like no you're just being daft we all used to say that but but I guess I like even for for like for those sort of things even though I I know what I'm doing but you're almost sort of thinking I don't think I understand what this phrase means in this context so but again getting quickly back back to speed I've loved being back as well
Nathan: I mean, the Microsoft ecosystem, more so than any other ecosystem in the history of ecosystems I would bet my mortgage on, the most acronyms by far. And I think there are multiple acronyms that have different meanings, but they're the same acronym. It doesn't make any sense. But we love them and everyone just kind of shoots them on a call and you're like, okay, what does that acronym mean in this context? So, you know, I think we all have a second screen. We all Google or we all...
Anna: Hahaha
Nathan: What does this mean? yeah, no, think acronyms are here to stay, think, unfortunately, but it is what it is. So kind of coming back to Arthur, obviously you mentioned earlier on you've grown to quite a transformative journey over the last, well certainly since you've been there, which remind me how long?
Anna: So I've been here around 18 months now.
Nathan: And as I say, it's been quite transformative journey during that time. Obviously, a lot of that was probably planned before you came. I'm sure the work you've done has definitely contributed to that. of what has caused that transformation?
Anna: I guess a key moment for us as a business was we received private equity backing in 2023 and through that, just both from, I guess, as a... from a financial perspective, but also from a board level in terms of strategy that's put us on an &A journey. And also I think just bringing other perspectives from our particular PE house have a interest in tech. So they're not coming in. Some PE houses will almost pick and choose across variety of sectors.
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: That's not the case for us at all. So you've got all of that expertise joining as well. That again, from a marketing perspective is always really useful to get lots of different perspectives. So from that, that's obviously put us, like I said, on this &A journey. It's also maybe changed expectations from a marketing perspective and what good looks like. And as part of that as well, the other, the sort of the third angle of what's changed is you've got lots of new people joining. So Arc traditionally has a really fantastic staff tenure rate, which is brilliant. But also as we've then grown, you've got lots of people who've worked at different parts of the channel and beyond who again are joining and bringing their own ways of doing things. That means that we're then evolving even more as a company.
Nathan: and you joined an interesting time didn't you because you joined mid rebrands is correct?
Anna: yes, it was, we had had, so the agency I was at was, was the agency that was doing ARCs rebrand. So I wasn't as, as a head of marketing, obviously, as if anyone has worked, in-house at an agency, you are marketing the marketers. I, at this point, you're not doing the work for clients, although I had done those roles as well. So I was aware of Arc and I worked very closely with the teams that were doing the rebrand and a lot of the work that happened at that point was strategy. So in terms of positioning, in terms of how you want to show up in the market. So it was really interesting sort of hearing about this and being having this exciting project. And then when the role at Arc came up and I was able to join, We then had about six weeks of getting that live, which was a highly aging, prematurely aging process. And I had done rebrands before, so I'd done a sort of a brand refresh, but a new web, a totally new behemoth website project at the agency. And then at the previous MSP, we'd done a total rebrand. So I had, this wasn't my first radio, but at the same time, I I've never done a rebrand in that timeframe. And I would also not necessarily recommend it either because it just means that we just had to get it live, which does give you a drive. But it also means that it's really easy to overlook small details because you're just trying to get the website live, which is obviously a huge project. Anyone who's ever been involved in those projects knows. So yeah, I still feel like there's a few things now that I keep finding that I'm like, passed on, I didn't find this, or think about it at the time.
Nathan: Thank
Anna: yeah, no, it was a crazy time, but it was really exciting.
Nathan: Yeah, I can imagine. obviously you've just joined. mean, obviously you had a bit of prior knowledge of Arc before joining. You've just joined to yourself, trying to find actually what it's really like on the other side of the fence, because what a client wants you to see and what you actually see can be very different things. And, you know, in good or bad ways, really. So obviously you've just joined the business. You're trying to understand probably in a lot more detail, kind of product services, how that all works, how everything works. kind of how co-op funding and stuff like that works because you're new to this ecosystem, be on the inside. You've then got a rebrand, you're trying to learn personalities. How did you manage and how did you juggle all of that?
Anna: I'll be honest, I don't think I did a particularly great job of it. It was just, I think when you are in that mindset, it's just got to be done. So I think there's things that you do because you have to, well, it's prioritization, isn't it? So you say, right, we need to get this live. We need to, I'm a perfectionist. Not because I think I'm perfect, but then my sister was like, but that is what a perfectionist would say. So, but I think I want to, everything that we put out, I want it to be the best of ourselves. And certainly with the rebrand, because there was a lot in terms of internal stakeholder buy-in as well. It was a real shift for us as a company and a real sort of like big moment. And I was aware of how big it was and also being so new to the role of what the weight of that. was and I didn't want let anyone down. So yeah, it was and then as well, so not just getting around products and services, which obviously there's a lot to absorb and sort of coming back into the channel as you said earlier, but even about being just more strategic about what we're doing, why we're doing it. And for us, one of the things was shifting from a... historically heavily localized Southeast position. So even in terms of like our SEO activity and saying, well, we've got these like well over a thousand customers nationwide. Why are all of our SEO searches based around the South? You know, just kind of, so it was every part of the strategy, both digital and in terms of physical assets as well needed to change. So yeah, like I said, I think I'm. just about over the grey hairs from that situation, it was a lot to do.
Nathan: I mean, what you're talking about there isn't a rebrand really. It's a rebrand with a complete repositioning of the business. know, a rebrand typically is, we need a new logo. I've grown this, we've had this for five years. We need to have a refresh. What you've done is you've completely changed what the public see and how they perceive you. You've completely changed the logo. You've got a new logo, you've got brand new website, but also you've changed your complete go-to-market approach. You're still delivering a lot of the same services, but you are doing it in very, very different positions way. So I mean, that's exciting. Probably not what you'd want to do six weeks or kind of for the first six weeks of your job. You probably want to six to 12 months to do that because, know, especially when the business is gone, transformation, there's a lot of people to bring on that journey. There's a of people who want to have a say, especially when you've got a long tenure. You've probably got instances where it's not just the board who want to have an input. It's someone who's been there 20 years and has kind of been one of the first employees and has a real invested interest in, I think this is good and this is great. So I mean, yeah, hats off to you for delivering that in six weeks. I think that is a challenge in itself.
Anna: Well, and it's always going to be a team effort. And I'm not just saying this to sound like some Miss America contestant,
Nathan: Hahaha
Anna: but it is and it has to be, partly from a buy-in perspective. But also, I want to do something that the board were proud of. And I also wanted something that every level of the business felt connected to. And a lot of that is also just making sure that the way that we're again talking about province services in a way that is authentic and is actually in alignment with what we do. So it was the work of a lot of people and yeah, I'm very lucky to work with brilliant colleagues.
Nathan: that's lovely. I hope you listened to that comment. that's a one,
Anna: Hahaha!
Nathan: we'll edit that out for you just so can share it with them.
Anna: Thanks.
Nathan: So four acquisitions down then in the last 18 months, kind of how has our change of business, obviously you joined probably during the beginning of this huge transformation piece, of how has the business changed and how has that affected kind of like the team makeup and what's that look like now?
Anna: So yeah, in terms of &A, so on top of the massive rebrand that we had to deliver, there had been two acquisitions that had happened in the, I'm saying 12 months, but sort of the latter part of that, but those brands hadn't been collapsed or they'd been part collapsed, part, like it was just a bit all over the place. We then had our rebrand and then we had these two other acquisition businesses. Again, one that was a brand refresh, one that was again, total brand collapse. And that's all been in the last 12 months. So we almost came off the back of one rebrand and then the challenge was great. Well, now you've got these other ones to do. So after saying like, we're not the good news is we don't have to do that again. And then it was the board were like, yes. So, and each. Each one has taught so much. in terms of, again, like from each, I'm saying rebrand, but obviously they've all looked quite different, has been just so entirely different in terms of what the, obviously some businesses had far more mature marketing presence. Others didn't really have as much. So you're focusing a lot on physical assets, signage. fleeces. and that's also been something that I've, I think so much of my experience was based in digital, that that's not to say that you don't consider physical assets, but when you are on a call and you're thinking, right, okay, so I need to be working out what the organic website value is. And I'm also trying to think of making sure that we've now got, there was say, say if there was a change in capabilities, I need to make sure that that's now reflected onto our website as well. And you're sort of thinking of all of these things. And then one acquisition, I remember them saying like, where are fleeces? And I was like, what do mean you fleeces? And they were like, well, what do we wear when we show up to, know, if you've obviously got site visits and it's the winter, so what fleece do we wear? And there's some, As much as each rebrand from &A has taught me so much, and they're obviously then things that you go into the next one thinking about, there are such quirks with each company of what matters to people. And until you're sat down and having these conversations, you can't always second guess what those are. Everyone has their fleeces now. that was,
Nathan: I'm going go over.
Anna: yeah, don't worry.
Nathan: I mean, that's probably the one thing that in the next &A, if another one happens in the future, whatever that is, that's probably the first thing that you probably think of. Okay, well, how have got the fleece sorted? Because it's these experiences, it? Where you've got so many people that in the grand scheme of things, more important things to be thinking about, at least from a kind of, here's our list of 10 million things that we need to make sure are in place. Unfortunately, our fleece is not the top of that list, but actually, to the people who've been in a business for five, 10, 15, 20 years. That is what matters to them, isn't it? And it's because it's really, I would never have kind of thought for a second, okay, well, fleeces, you get pens because pens are naturally there. We have a box of pens in the store cupboard. If we go to an event, we give someone a pen. If he comes to the office, give them a pen and a mug. But yeah, the fleece is think is quite an interesting one. How do you ensure consistency then across, you know, you've got... teams who have always worked a certain way and maybe have worked in a business fair again, know, a similar kind of tenure as to what arc as you mentioned 1992 before, how do you ensure consistency across those teams who are used to work in a certain way and whether they are collapsed into the arc brand now or whether they are still standalone kind of sister, brother, parent, child brands? How do you ensure that everyone just talks on the same hinge sheet and champions then this new arc proposition?
Anna: I whilst we're of joking about fleeces aside, actually working out what the things that matter to people are in terms of getting them to buy in, not just from a rebrand perspective, but also having a certain pride in how you show up means that it's other people start to spot inconsistencies because they care. And I think actually sort of like meeting people part of that way rather than turning up and saying like, drilling them on what power points they use, although sometimes comes with the job as well, means that I now, I'll get people coming to me going, have you seen that this is a problem or, or I noticed that. So people are now searching for the inconsistencies themselves. And also when, when you are in such a growing business, I can't see everything. It's just not possible. So you want people to be. snitching and like bringing stuff to you to sort or even better when they've just said, just so you know, I saw that this document was out in the new old branding. So I've just updated it. So I think empowering people to do that and also building the relationships where they not only can spot it and notice the difference, but also want to. Everyone's busy and often a lot of marketing can get. de-prioritized, especially if you've got client work to do, because that's just how it works. yeah, I found other people's help with that consistency is a huge, huge, huge part.
Nathan: Yeah, I mean, ultimately what you're talking about there is creating a working environment that people people obviously feel empowered, feel passionate and become ambassadors. It's not snitches. It's people that become proud of where they work and they
Anna: Yeah, I know.
Nathan: are ambassadors. What would you do differently if you had six months, not six weeks and you knew of these &A's at the beginning of that or maybe even before that six month period? Is there anything you might think, you know what? I would have prioritised that, would have done that, would have done less of that. Actually that wasn't that important. What would you do differently?
Anna: this isn't necessarily something that I would... The challenge that we had was that we had to get this brand live really around sort of financial year and I had joined towards the end of February. that was... That wasn't an option for us, but what it meant was that I almost spent those first six weeks, like you said, trying to almost get my head around a number of things. And then most people, when they join, you're obviously trying to get to know people across the business, get your head around the numbers, and then obviously build out a plan from that. And what we did was almost kind of like the other way around. So if I did have six months, it would be getting... the data secure. So because there hadn't been anyone looking after marketing from a consistent perspective previously, we weren't tracking SQLs. We didn't have a firm understanding of what our biggest lead sources were. And whilst that doesn't necessarily help you with a rebrand, obviously a rebrand is only for me was that six week project. I've actually come into the role to do this whole other job
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: that then meant that it was by that point of trying to build that out. And a lot of that was through education as well and getting the sales team on side and seeing why it was important that we're tracking these things. So getting the data secure to obviously make better decisions would have been hugely helpful. It was just that for us, it wasn't possible to do that in an ideal world rather than taking this backwards approach. Because then that also meant that I knew I had to get the data sorted. And then you're almost, so like I said, normally relationship building data plan, plan and action. had to do plan and action data relationship build. So that almost came in later. taking a more logical approach, would also probably have been better if I had had longer.
Nathan: That may, I mean, it sounds like you've had a quite a turbulent, exciting, interesting, 18 months. Kind of what's it like working day to day in Arc now in this new Arc with everything settled 18 months has passed or maybe 15, 16 months since the website's been live. So I've checked kind of what's it like in the day to day now.
Anna: Well, it's from a, I guess, like a personal perspective, it's amazing to see all of that work paying off, which is our leads increased 30 % over last year. And we're also seeing a much bigger deal size come through the door as well, which again, as a marketer, like you can't. asked for more really. And I think as well because there wasn't again sort of consistent marketing effort, it's quite rare to go into a business where they'd almost been a bit of a flat line and then you can sort of see when the rebrand happens and then you can see the improvements afterwards. That's quite unusual really in today's age. In terms of the day-to-day, we're a small team. So we've got two SDRs, a Marketing Exec, a SEO Freelancer, and we also work with partner agencies as well. So I'm really lucky that I get to keep a lot of the doing, and I genuinely mean that. I love rolling my sleeves up. I don't really sort of enjoy sitting above it. At the same time, over this last year, I've been fortunate to be... Firstly promoted, so I originally joined to look after marketing. I'm now marketing and communications for to do full title. And then I was also asked to join the senior leadership team back in February. So whilst I had already started reporting to the board and had active discussions through the communications role, especially important over &A, but also with role working on the senior leadership team where we work really closely with the exec. lucky to speak to lot of levels of the business and I love that about my role. I'm really fortunate to have that.
Nathan: Nice, I mean that's a really nice trajectory, isn't it? You coming in, having a role expansion. mean, it's always good. I think when you, marketing comms are obviously really closely linked. And I think, you know, kind of being able to oversee both of those in a business with a small marketing and comms team, I think probably really helps. We've covered some really quite interesting things there to end. If you could give kind of yourself one bit of advice that you've learned, that you might do differently across any part of your career. We've talked a lot about the reband tool, we can park that one because we've kind of touched that but what would you do differently?
Anna: I think in terms of this isn't necessarily something that I would do differently, but it is something that has, I think I've held true and I would still say to this day, and that is within, within marketing, we are all magpies. There's always something new and something shiny. And,
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: and that is one of the fun things about working in this particular part of the business. At the same time, you can't do every shiny thing. And I think especially when you're in a small team and when you're in a growing business when there's so much to do. So just really keeping that question of why are we doing what we're doing. because also other people bring you shiny things. So, we'd love to do this webinar on this. OK, cool. Why? And I think that
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: is actually something that in journalism, if you couldn't answer, if you were, pitching a story to your editor and if you couldn't answer, so what? like why should people care? Then you were, it was always quite embarrassing when you sort of couldn't really
Nathan: Thank
Anna: give an answer for that. And I think marketing is quite similar. So there's probably been times in my career, especially when I was starting out, where it's easy to get pulled in different directions because other people are enthusiastic. And I think just bringing it back to the numbers and that's not being constricted by the numbers, but just using that to sort of guide you and to guide other people and just to really be really solid on why we're doing something sounds really obvious, but my God, do people get distracted and pulled off in different directions. So that for me, both in terms of building a decent team and a decent strategy is integral.
Nathan: Yeah. No, I mean, that's a really, really interesting point. And, I hold my hands up. I am the worst magpie. I am so distracted
Anna: Hahaha
Nathan: by an idea or this, you know, my team will just, we'll just laugh it off at this point. But yeah, I'm the worst for, I've, I've just had this, this, idea walk in the dog and I'm like, okay, well, how can we this happen? the podcast many, moons ago was one of those ideas. Obviously we've got that live, but I'm the worst. I think, good on you for sticking to your guns and challenging some of those. we'd like to do this event. We'd like to get these drinks, maths printed. We'd like to get like, okay, fine. What's it actually gonna contribute? No more questions for you. You'll be pleased to know. And I think that your interrogation is over. And
Anna: You
Nathan: from really, really interesting things that the police will travel with you.
Anna: once in the post, it's on its way to you, Nathan.
Nathan: I will wear that on the next episode. thank you so much
Anna: You
Nathan: for time. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yeah, I hope people will join us for the next episode.
Anna: So hi, I'm Anna. I'm Head of Marketing at Arc, and we are a IT MSP with customers all across the UK. We service over around 1,000 businesses. We started in 1992, so we've been around for a while. And over the last few years, we've grown from around 60 person head count to, think, our current one is around 175. And as part of that as well, Sorry, can we start again? This is fucking awful. Sorry. No, no,
Nathan: Have a good time, but you can't do it.
Anna: no, no. I was like, this is, I'm just going into like marketing field. Can we start? I'm so sorry. And then that's my last, that's my last one.
Nathan: Go for it, yeah. So, like, if you could
Anna: John, okay. Right.
Nathan: tell us a little bit our activity, we'll just cut from where I started to kind of you
Anna: Okay.
Nathan: coming in now,
Anna: So hi, I'm Anna and I am head of marketing at Arc. We are a UK based IT MSP. We've got around a thousand customers. across a variety of sectors. And in terms of our core service offering, whilst we have a traditional IT help desk, we also have a lot of capability across all of the Microsoft stack, but also in cyber security and through merger and acquisitions, we were growing that capability as well. So it's quite an exciting time to be part of Arc and I'm sure I'll tell you more about it in a moment.
Nathan: nice thank you i think it's always good just give a brief overview yeah obviously this is a channel podcast just to give people a flavor of you know kind of teeing up the episode i suppose who is this person what sort of business they're from i think it's always good to try and understand how people got to this this and it's a bit cliche at this point now because all the episodes predating this i call it the weird and wonderful place but i think it's just really interesting to understand people's perspectives their journeys up to here so you started working for arc just kind of like just give us a bit of an overview a bit of a brief CV of kind of your previous market experience up to this point.
Anna: Well, I totally fell into marketing by accident. I did English at uni and then went straight into journalism. So I was working at women's magazines and national newspapers in London for the first five years of my career. Left there, curve ball, left there to then go into secondary school teaching. I taught English in inner city
Nathan: Okay.
Anna: Nottingham schools. And then teaching is a brilliant career, but it was not for me. And when I left, there, I tried to think about what transferable skills I had, and I applied for a job at a Nottingham based IT MSP. And they gave me a job, they took a total chance on me, and I went and handled their communications and from there went into marketing agencies, and then onto Arc. So it's been a bit of a mixed bag,
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: but it also I think has led me to a point where all of those skills have really come into play over this last year. yeah, I'm not a marketer by, I was about to say by trade, but by background.
Nathan: was gonna say, definitely a marketer. If there's a salary hit in the bank at the end of the month, you are a marketer, I
Anna: Hahaha
Nathan: pray. I mean, I thought it'd quite interesting. It's a of a boomerang, isn't it? You've gone really off track to begin with in terms of kind of the channels. Basically, you know, I did very much the same. I did a law degree. Realized it wasn't for me. Then ended up kind of in marketing and kind of the last probably almost two decades, kind of I've been on that marketing trajectory. But in very different guises, in-house agency, non-channel, channel. kind of talk us through what it was like transitioning from, I mean let's do each of the stages because they're very very different you know you've gone into journalism, you've written for some women's magazines on a national level as you've just said, then you've gone into teaching, then you've gone into channel in-house, then you've gone agency, then you've come back into channel, I mean they are some serious transitions, what was it like throughout each of those stages?
Anna: know that transferable skills is something that people talk about and it almost, you when people say, but you can present or you can, I don't know, like manage a meeting or something like that. But actually, when I look at the sort of the common threads throughout my career, when I was at women's magazines, a lot of the stories that I was writing in terms of features were people's. real life stories. really, and through that, you really get a sense of people about not only different walks of life, but also people's motivations. And then going into teaching again, you are essentially, so I taught English and you're, and for me being secondary school and I often taught in nine years, 10 years, 11, so obviously GCSE years. And you're basically selling to a room of people that don't want to buy from you. And
Nathan: Thank
Anna: taking that into marketing. So both the background in terms of almost an insight into human behavior, very light touch psychology, and then into teaching where you're kind of living that. And also, like I said, selling essentially, and trying to get people on side has moving into a role that has got obviously marketing, but also a lot of communications across multiple levels of stakeholders. actually has been so many things I've been having to pull on this last year so it might seem random but actually it's kind of, yeah, seven differences, it's all turned out quite well.
Nathan: think that's a very good point. I think that selling to kids and trying to get them to buy investments in their own education, I think is something that I've never really considered. I think everything is ultimately, whether you call it manipulation, whether you call enticing, selling to, everything is the same. I think marketing is just the one discipline, the one profession where that is the bread and butter of what you do. It's not the way you make it happen. It's ultimately what we are here for. Let's talk about the channel experience and obviously you've done some time in Nottingham, then you've taken a break out from channel gardening agency, then you've come back into channel. How has that channel experience been? we maybe, you can maybe focus on more on the arc last kind of 12, 18 months, I know how long you've been in post now, but kind of what's that been like? And I suppose it'd be really good to understand how different was it back then versus now.
Anna: I guess, sort of two things. On the one hand, when I first joined, moving from teaching to an MSP was, I... It's not that I was arrogant to think there wouldn't be things to learn. It's just that I had no idea how much I would have to learn. And especially when you are in a comms role where it is your job to communicate to the external world and sound like you know what you're doing. That was a baptism of fire. And I was really lucky to be very well supported. we, my previous company, there were a lot of people that were happy to help with thought leadership. And I had a boss who was quite invested in that as well. so all of that was great. But then coming out of those few years, and whilst I was at agency, I did have a few clients that I worked with that were still in the channel. So I kind of kept my hand in a little bit. then coming out and then like, sorry, back, so out of agency, back into the IT landscape. It's funny, isn't it? Because there were certain buzzwords at the time of my... the last MSP and I remember it was almost like everyone was talking about blockchain. People were obsessed with blockchain.
Nathan: Ha
Anna: There would be like SaaS products being launched. like, they've got blockchain principles and you're sort of thing. I was
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: actually mean, that's just marketing spin and it was, and then like I said, I had a few years out and then coming back in and that's kind of gone, but then different buzzwords have come in. And I would even say from a marketing perspective, I would say there's even certain phrases that I don't really recall people using in the same way and I'm almost reticent to say what they are in case anyone's like no you're just being daft we all used to say that but but I guess I like even for for like for those sort of things even though I I know what I'm doing but you're almost sort of thinking I don't think I understand what this phrase means in this context so but again getting quickly back back to speed I've loved being back as well
Nathan: I mean, the Microsoft ecosystem, more so than any other ecosystem in the history of ecosystems I would bet my mortgage on, the most acronyms by far. And I think there are multiple acronyms that have different meanings, but they're the same acronym. It doesn't make any sense. But we love them and everyone just kind of shoots them on a call and you're like, okay, what does that acronym mean in this context? So, you know, I think we all have a second screen. We all Google or we all...
Anna: Hahaha
Nathan: What does this mean? yeah, no, think acronyms are here to stay, think, unfortunately, but it is what it is. So kind of coming back to Arthur, obviously you mentioned earlier on you've grown to quite a transformative journey over the last, well certainly since you've been there, which remind me how long?
Anna: So I've been here around 18 months now.
Nathan: And as I say, it's been quite transformative journey during that time. Obviously, a lot of that was probably planned before you came. I'm sure the work you've done has definitely contributed to that. of what has caused that transformation?
Anna: I guess a key moment for us as a business was we received private equity backing in 2023 and through that, just both from, I guess, as a... from a financial perspective, but also from a board level in terms of strategy that's put us on an &A journey. And also I think just bringing other perspectives from our particular PE house have a interest in tech. So they're not coming in. Some PE houses will almost pick and choose across variety of sectors.
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: That's not the case for us at all. So you've got all of that expertise joining as well. That again, from a marketing perspective is always really useful to get lots of different perspectives. So from that, that's obviously put us, like I said, on this &A journey. It's also maybe changed expectations from a marketing perspective and what good looks like. And as part of that as well, the other, the sort of the third angle of what's changed is you've got lots of new people joining. So Arc traditionally has a really fantastic staff tenure rate, which is brilliant. But also as we've then grown, you've got lots of people who've worked at different parts of the channel and beyond who again are joining and bringing their own ways of doing things. That means that we're then evolving even more as a company.
Nathan: and you joined an interesting time didn't you because you joined mid rebrands is correct?
Anna: yes, it was, we had had, so the agency I was at was, was the agency that was doing ARCs rebrand. So I wasn't as, as a head of marketing, obviously, as if anyone has worked, in-house at an agency, you are marketing the marketers. I, at this point, you're not doing the work for clients, although I had done those roles as well. So I was aware of Arc and I worked very closely with the teams that were doing the rebrand and a lot of the work that happened at that point was strategy. So in terms of positioning, in terms of how you want to show up in the market. So it was really interesting sort of hearing about this and being having this exciting project. And then when the role at Arc came up and I was able to join, We then had about six weeks of getting that live, which was a highly aging, prematurely aging process. And I had done rebrands before, so I'd done a sort of a brand refresh, but a new web, a totally new behemoth website project at the agency. And then at the previous MSP, we'd done a total rebrand. So I had, this wasn't my first radio, but at the same time, I I've never done a rebrand in that timeframe. And I would also not necessarily recommend it either because it just means that we just had to get it live, which does give you a drive. But it also means that it's really easy to overlook small details because you're just trying to get the website live, which is obviously a huge project. Anyone who's ever been involved in those projects knows. So yeah, I still feel like there's a few things now that I keep finding that I'm like, passed on, I didn't find this, or think about it at the time.
Nathan: Thank
Anna: yeah, no, it was a crazy time, but it was really exciting.
Nathan: Yeah, I can imagine. obviously you've just joined. mean, obviously you had a bit of prior knowledge of Arc before joining. You've just joined to yourself, trying to find actually what it's really like on the other side of the fence, because what a client wants you to see and what you actually see can be very different things. And, you know, in good or bad ways, really. So obviously you've just joined the business. You're trying to understand probably in a lot more detail, kind of product services, how that all works, how everything works. kind of how co-op funding and stuff like that works because you're new to this ecosystem, be on the inside. You've then got a rebrand, you're trying to learn personalities. How did you manage and how did you juggle all of that?
Anna: I'll be honest, I don't think I did a particularly great job of it. It was just, I think when you are in that mindset, it's just got to be done. So I think there's things that you do because you have to, well, it's prioritization, isn't it? So you say, right, we need to get this live. We need to, I'm a perfectionist. Not because I think I'm perfect, but then my sister was like, but that is what a perfectionist would say. So, but I think I want to, everything that we put out, I want it to be the best of ourselves. And certainly with the rebrand, because there was a lot in terms of internal stakeholder buy-in as well. It was a real shift for us as a company and a real sort of like big moment. And I was aware of how big it was and also being so new to the role of what the weight of that. was and I didn't want let anyone down. So yeah, it was and then as well, so not just getting around products and services, which obviously there's a lot to absorb and sort of coming back into the channel as you said earlier, but even about being just more strategic about what we're doing, why we're doing it. And for us, one of the things was shifting from a... historically heavily localized Southeast position. So even in terms of like our SEO activity and saying, well, we've got these like well over a thousand customers nationwide. Why are all of our SEO searches based around the South? You know, just kind of, so it was every part of the strategy, both digital and in terms of physical assets as well needed to change. So yeah, like I said, I think I'm. just about over the grey hairs from that situation, it was a lot to do.
Nathan: I mean, what you're talking about there isn't a rebrand really. It's a rebrand with a complete repositioning of the business. know, a rebrand typically is, we need a new logo. I've grown this, we've had this for five years. We need to have a refresh. What you've done is you've completely changed what the public see and how they perceive you. You've completely changed the logo. You've got a new logo, you've got brand new website, but also you've changed your complete go-to-market approach. You're still delivering a lot of the same services, but you are doing it in very, very different positions way. So I mean, that's exciting. Probably not what you'd want to do six weeks or kind of for the first six weeks of your job. You probably want to six to 12 months to do that because, know, especially when the business is gone, transformation, there's a lot of people to bring on that journey. There's a of people who want to have a say, especially when you've got a long tenure. You've probably got instances where it's not just the board who want to have an input. It's someone who's been there 20 years and has kind of been one of the first employees and has a real invested interest in, I think this is good and this is great. So I mean, yeah, hats off to you for delivering that in six weeks. I think that is a challenge in itself.
Anna: Well, and it's always going to be a team effort. And I'm not just saying this to sound like some Miss America contestant,
Nathan: Hahaha
Anna: but it is and it has to be, partly from a buy-in perspective. But also, I want to do something that the board were proud of. And I also wanted something that every level of the business felt connected to. And a lot of that is also just making sure that the way that we're again talking about province services in a way that is authentic and is actually in alignment with what we do. So it was the work of a lot of people and yeah, I'm very lucky to work with brilliant colleagues.
Nathan: that's lovely. I hope you listened to that comment. that's a one,
Anna: Hahaha!
Nathan: we'll edit that out for you just so can share it with them.
Anna: Thanks.
Nathan: So four acquisitions down then in the last 18 months, kind of how has our change of business, obviously you joined probably during the beginning of this huge transformation piece, of how has the business changed and how has that affected kind of like the team makeup and what's that look like now?
Anna: So yeah, in terms of &A, so on top of the massive rebrand that we had to deliver, there had been two acquisitions that had happened in the, I'm saying 12 months, but sort of the latter part of that, but those brands hadn't been collapsed or they'd been part collapsed, part, like it was just a bit all over the place. We then had our rebrand and then we had these two other acquisition businesses. Again, one that was a brand refresh, one that was again, total brand collapse. And that's all been in the last 12 months. So we almost came off the back of one rebrand and then the challenge was great. Well, now you've got these other ones to do. So after saying like, we're not the good news is we don't have to do that again. And then it was the board were like, yes. So, and each. Each one has taught so much. in terms of, again, like from each, I'm saying rebrand, but obviously they've all looked quite different, has been just so entirely different in terms of what the, obviously some businesses had far more mature marketing presence. Others didn't really have as much. So you're focusing a lot on physical assets, signage. fleeces. and that's also been something that I've, I think so much of my experience was based in digital, that that's not to say that you don't consider physical assets, but when you are on a call and you're thinking, right, okay, so I need to be working out what the organic website value is. And I'm also trying to think of making sure that we've now got, there was say, say if there was a change in capabilities, I need to make sure that that's now reflected onto our website as well. And you're sort of thinking of all of these things. And then one acquisition, I remember them saying like, where are fleeces? And I was like, what do mean you fleeces? And they were like, well, what do we wear when we show up to, know, if you've obviously got site visits and it's the winter, so what fleece do we wear? And there's some, As much as each rebrand from &A has taught me so much, and they're obviously then things that you go into the next one thinking about, there are such quirks with each company of what matters to people. And until you're sat down and having these conversations, you can't always second guess what those are. Everyone has their fleeces now. that was,
Nathan: I'm going go over.
Anna: yeah, don't worry.
Nathan: I mean, that's probably the one thing that in the next &A, if another one happens in the future, whatever that is, that's probably the first thing that you probably think of. Okay, well, how have got the fleece sorted? Because it's these experiences, it? Where you've got so many people that in the grand scheme of things, more important things to be thinking about, at least from a kind of, here's our list of 10 million things that we need to make sure are in place. Unfortunately, our fleece is not the top of that list, but actually, to the people who've been in a business for five, 10, 15, 20 years. That is what matters to them, isn't it? And it's because it's really, I would never have kind of thought for a second, okay, well, fleeces, you get pens because pens are naturally there. We have a box of pens in the store cupboard. If we go to an event, we give someone a pen. If he comes to the office, give them a pen and a mug. But yeah, the fleece is think is quite an interesting one. How do you ensure consistency then across, you know, you've got... teams who have always worked a certain way and maybe have worked in a business fair again, know, a similar kind of tenure as to what arc as you mentioned 1992 before, how do you ensure consistency across those teams who are used to work in a certain way and whether they are collapsed into the arc brand now or whether they are still standalone kind of sister, brother, parent, child brands? How do you ensure that everyone just talks on the same hinge sheet and champions then this new arc proposition?
Anna: I whilst we're of joking about fleeces aside, actually working out what the things that matter to people are in terms of getting them to buy in, not just from a rebrand perspective, but also having a certain pride in how you show up means that it's other people start to spot inconsistencies because they care. And I think actually sort of like meeting people part of that way rather than turning up and saying like, drilling them on what power points they use, although sometimes comes with the job as well, means that I now, I'll get people coming to me going, have you seen that this is a problem or, or I noticed that. So people are now searching for the inconsistencies themselves. And also when, when you are in such a growing business, I can't see everything. It's just not possible. So you want people to be. snitching and like bringing stuff to you to sort or even better when they've just said, just so you know, I saw that this document was out in the new old branding. So I've just updated it. So I think empowering people to do that and also building the relationships where they not only can spot it and notice the difference, but also want to. Everyone's busy and often a lot of marketing can get. de-prioritized, especially if you've got client work to do, because that's just how it works. yeah, I found other people's help with that consistency is a huge, huge, huge part.
Nathan: Yeah, I mean, ultimately what you're talking about there is creating a working environment that people people obviously feel empowered, feel passionate and become ambassadors. It's not snitches. It's people that become proud of where they work and they
Anna: Yeah, I know.
Nathan: are ambassadors. What would you do differently if you had six months, not six weeks and you knew of these &A's at the beginning of that or maybe even before that six month period? Is there anything you might think, you know what? I would have prioritised that, would have done that, would have done less of that. Actually that wasn't that important. What would you do differently?
Anna: this isn't necessarily something that I would... The challenge that we had was that we had to get this brand live really around sort of financial year and I had joined towards the end of February. that was... That wasn't an option for us, but what it meant was that I almost spent those first six weeks, like you said, trying to almost get my head around a number of things. And then most people, when they join, you're obviously trying to get to know people across the business, get your head around the numbers, and then obviously build out a plan from that. And what we did was almost kind of like the other way around. So if I did have six months, it would be getting... the data secure. So because there hadn't been anyone looking after marketing from a consistent perspective previously, we weren't tracking SQLs. We didn't have a firm understanding of what our biggest lead sources were. And whilst that doesn't necessarily help you with a rebrand, obviously a rebrand is only for me was that six week project. I've actually come into the role to do this whole other job
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: that then meant that it was by that point of trying to build that out. And a lot of that was through education as well and getting the sales team on side and seeing why it was important that we're tracking these things. So getting the data secure to obviously make better decisions would have been hugely helpful. It was just that for us, it wasn't possible to do that in an ideal world rather than taking this backwards approach. Because then that also meant that I knew I had to get the data sorted. And then you're almost, so like I said, normally relationship building data plan, plan and action. had to do plan and action data relationship build. So that almost came in later. taking a more logical approach, would also probably have been better if I had had longer.
Nathan: That may, I mean, it sounds like you've had a quite a turbulent, exciting, interesting, 18 months. Kind of what's it like working day to day in Arc now in this new Arc with everything settled 18 months has passed or maybe 15, 16 months since the website's been live. So I've checked kind of what's it like in the day to day now.
Anna: Well, it's from a, I guess, like a personal perspective, it's amazing to see all of that work paying off, which is our leads increased 30 % over last year. And we're also seeing a much bigger deal size come through the door as well, which again, as a marketer, like you can't. asked for more really. And I think as well because there wasn't again sort of consistent marketing effort, it's quite rare to go into a business where they'd almost been a bit of a flat line and then you can sort of see when the rebrand happens and then you can see the improvements afterwards. That's quite unusual really in today's age. In terms of the day-to-day, we're a small team. So we've got two SDRs, a Marketing Exec, a SEO Freelancer, and we also work with partner agencies as well. So I'm really lucky that I get to keep a lot of the doing, and I genuinely mean that. I love rolling my sleeves up. I don't really sort of enjoy sitting above it. At the same time, over this last year, I've been fortunate to be... Firstly promoted, so I originally joined to look after marketing. I'm now marketing and communications for to do full title. And then I was also asked to join the senior leadership team back in February. So whilst I had already started reporting to the board and had active discussions through the communications role, especially important over &A, but also with role working on the senior leadership team where we work really closely with the exec. lucky to speak to lot of levels of the business and I love that about my role. I'm really fortunate to have that.
Nathan: Nice, I mean that's a really nice trajectory, isn't it? You coming in, having a role expansion. mean, it's always good. I think when you, marketing comms are obviously really closely linked. And I think, you know, kind of being able to oversee both of those in a business with a small marketing and comms team, I think probably really helps. We've covered some really quite interesting things there to end. If you could give kind of yourself one bit of advice that you've learned, that you might do differently across any part of your career. We've talked a lot about the reband tool, we can park that one because we've kind of touched that but what would you do differently?
Anna: I think in terms of this isn't necessarily something that I would do differently, but it is something that has, I think I've held true and I would still say to this day, and that is within, within marketing, we are all magpies. There's always something new and something shiny. And,
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: and that is one of the fun things about working in this particular part of the business. At the same time, you can't do every shiny thing. And I think especially when you're in a small team and when you're in a growing business when there's so much to do. So just really keeping that question of why are we doing what we're doing. because also other people bring you shiny things. So, we'd love to do this webinar on this. OK, cool. Why? And I think that
Nathan: Yeah.
Anna: is actually something that in journalism, if you couldn't answer, if you were, pitching a story to your editor and if you couldn't answer, so what? like why should people care? Then you were, it was always quite embarrassing when you sort of couldn't really
Nathan: Thank
Anna: give an answer for that. And I think marketing is quite similar. So there's probably been times in my career, especially when I was starting out, where it's easy to get pulled in different directions because other people are enthusiastic. And I think just bringing it back to the numbers and that's not being constricted by the numbers, but just using that to sort of guide you and to guide other people and just to really be really solid on why we're doing something sounds really obvious, but my God, do people get distracted and pulled off in different directions. So that for me, both in terms of building a decent team and a decent strategy is integral.
Nathan: Yeah. No, I mean, that's a really, really interesting point. And, I hold my hands up. I am the worst magpie. I am so distracted
Anna: Hahaha
Nathan: by an idea or this, you know, my team will just, we'll just laugh it off at this point. But yeah, I'm the worst for, I've, I've just had this, this, idea walk in the dog and I'm like, okay, well, how can we this happen? the podcast many, moons ago was one of those ideas. Obviously we've got that live, but I'm the worst. I think, good on you for sticking to your guns and challenging some of those. we'd like to do this event. We'd like to get these drinks, maths printed. We'd like to get like, okay, fine. What's it actually gonna contribute? No more questions for you. You'll be pleased to know. And I think that your interrogation is over. And
Anna: You
Nathan: from really, really interesting things that the police will travel with you.
Anna: once in the post, it's on its way to you, Nathan.
Nathan: I will wear that on the next episode. thank you so much
Anna: You
Nathan: for time. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yeah, I hope people will join us for the next episode.
