How to Reduce Phone Distractions and Build Healthy Family Tech Habits with Joey Odom

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I have a very special guest on with me today. Let's welcome Joey Odom.
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Joey had a wake-up call when he missed his son's first soccer goal because he was glued to his phone.
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This moment led him on a journey to transform his relationship with his phone
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and in turn improve his relationships with his family.
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So together with his friend and fellow dad, Heath Wilson, Joey co-founded ARO in October of 2022.
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ARO has since been embraced by thousands of families across the country helping
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parents model healthy tech habits and be more present with their loved ones.
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Hey there, parents. Welcome back to the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
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I'm your host, Jackie Finneman, the founder of No Problem Parenting and noproblemparents.com.
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I believe any parenting problem can be turned into a no problem,
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and it all begins with a shift in mindset. We tackle real parenting challenges,
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and we provide practical solutions at work.
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Welcome to the show, Joey. Jackie, it's so good to see you. Thanks for having me on today.
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I mean, this is a really fun way to embrace the fact that we're on technology
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and technology is just a part of our lives. It's part of our kids' lives.
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You've come up with a way to kind of gamify the phone and the devices.
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So just give us a little intro to how you got started with this and what sparked
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missing that first goal.
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Ouch. Being there, missing that first goal. I just had goosebumps hearing that.
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Well, and Jackie, it was, to make matters worse, right after Harrison,
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my son, who's now 16 years old.
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So when he was five, yeah, when he scored that goal, his very first goal,
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the very first thing he did was looked over to the sidelines.
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The very first thing he did was look just, I mean, Jackie, to see the smile and pride on my face.
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I mean, it gets me emotional thinking about it again.
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And all he saw was the top of my head because I was looking down at my phone
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and you would, you would ask and people ask all the time, oh, what were you doing?
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And I would love to say that I was, you know, freeing, you know,
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hostages from a domestic terrorist organization, but I was not,
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I was probably watching, you know, a silly video or I was probably responding
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to a group text. Who knows?
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All I know, it was so inconsequential. And it was one of those moments where
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I just, I said, something's wrong.
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And unfortunately, this was
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not the only time that I made this mistake where I missed these moments.
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And what's interesting about it is that's a moment that I was conscious that I missed.
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And who knows how many times, who knows how many times our kids look over to
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us, especially when they're young, look over to us.
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And we just don't know it because our heads are, you know, kind of absorbed in our phones.
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And so it was one of those in my business partner, Heath Wilson,
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who you mentioned, he'd had the same thing height of his career,
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sold a great business, but he realized that, Hey, he was so absorbed in work
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that he wasn't giving his family the time and he was on his phone and constantly reachable.
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And for the, for us, it was as we've looked at it, as we've thought about it,
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it comes down to this core relationship.
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It really does come down to relationship and this relationship that I have developed,
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that we have developed as a
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society in 16 years, this is a very short amount of time that the iPhone,
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I'm not picking on Apple, but you know, the iPhone being the more prominent one for most of us,
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we've developed this weird relationship with our phones and that's okay,
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except for the fact that it's damaging our other relationships truly.
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Like, and we see it in the stats, but more than just seeing the stats, we just feel it.
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You know, we'd like, we know. And in that moment, I knew that this relationship
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with my phone was damaging what I would say is a top three relationship in my
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existence, yet I still was glued to it and it was still kind of hard for us.
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And we just said, hey, what if we could do something about it?
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What if the world could look different?
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Absolutely love it. So tell us how you even came up with the idea.
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The RO is like a box that your phone goes inside.
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Parents will say, put your phone in this basket or put it in the drawer during dinner.
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And whatever, no screens at the table or at night in your room,
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just describe the box a little bit because we're an audio-only podcast,
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so they're not going to be able to see it until they click that link in the show notes.
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It's funny. I'm sure the listener was saying, oh, what a brilliant idea,
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a box for your phone, right? We get that, but we realized...
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Very quickly that the fact that our phones are with us all the time you know
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everything else in our life has a home you walk in what do you do you take your
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keys out of your keys in your wallet if you're you know if you put have them
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in your pockets and you put them in a little valet tray
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or we put our cars in the garage like we have a home for
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everything but for some reason we just haven't established that
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home for our phones yet and in the last 16 years that we've
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had them so as a result we have them with us all the time
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and so we did we developed we had this idea what
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if we just had a place for our phones and so
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we prototyped with shoe boxes and you know putting them
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there and that worked fine but then we
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realized that there was nothing really compelling that was
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drawing me to put my phone there except for
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just that just being aware of it remembering to do it
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and then having really kind of the self-discipline to
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do it and we all know that we need to not have our phones
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at the dinner table and so if you have the discipline sure let's go
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put it in a drawer let's put it in a box whatever you whatever you want
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but there's there are a couple flaws on the physical one
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one of them is it's almost like we like this almost
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like to a peloton like peloton made a bike right there
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have been bikes around forever yet it took off because a couple things one it
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was it was kind of a really pretty way of doing it and the results of it being
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pretty you put it in a prominent place so we knew when we developed our we need
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this needed to be a beautiful home decor piece i mean this is it's white fabric It has a bamboo lid.
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We like to say it's wife designed and wife approved.
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So if I were to design it, it would have not gone well if I would have done it.
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But we luckily had some smart females designing it.
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And so it's a beautiful place. And really what it does, it not only is a beautiful
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thing, but it kind of symbolizes.
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Your family's intentions. And this is for families. And it's for families to
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say like, hey, when you see that, you remember, hey, we're a present family.
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We want to be intentional with technology.
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But the place isn't quite enough, right? So we also said, well,
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what if we could design the box with really intelligent technology that would
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allow it when you drop your phone in it, it would automatically connect to an app.
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And what that app would do is begin to quantify the amount of time that you're
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away from your phone, that you're physically distant from your phone.
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Which is a real distinction from this, you know, the Sunday screen time report
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we get from Apple that says how much time you've been on your phone.
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So how much time have you been physically distant from your phone?
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So by quantifying that, then you can kind of gamify the experience of being away from your phone.
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So the RO app will send you nudges. Hey, it's six o'clock. How about,
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you know, how about some phone free dinner time?
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Or after you finish a session, you can tag what you've done.
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So then you can look back and this is really fun.
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I love seeing this, a roll up of how I've used my time physically distant from
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my phone. So I could pull up the app right now.
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And in the last 30 days, I've had 36 hours of phone-free family time and 22
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hours working and, and seven hours of morning devotion or whatever,
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whatever those numbers are.
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And then you have leaderboards within your home. You can kind of see,
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you know, how many streaks, how many days in a row you've had physical time
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distant from your phone, connect your rings and time goals, all that kind of stuff.
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But it's that connectivity between software and hardware
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that really that's where the magic really lies one or
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the other really probably leaves it slightly incomplete
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so that was our thesis was and by the
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way jackie we had no idea like we had no idea
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if other people were struggling with this turns out they are
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we had no idea if this would just work for us luckily it works for others too
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and it kind of trans not just kind of it actually transforms the culture of
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a home to have a thing physically present that says this is what our intentions
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are And then a gamified experience that everybody can join in on.
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And I know this is going to sound crazy, but have some fun apart from your phone.
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Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, there's so much goodness in this and to get the kids
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and teens, you know, actually excited to put their phone down.
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You know, they love a streak. They love a good snap streak. So,
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you know, this is another way that you can incorporate that, right?
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It's so true. And even to piggyback on that, one thing that we had a belief
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that this would be for families who kind of look like ours with teenage kids who had phones.
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What we found very quickly was families that were really adopting this were
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families with kids who did not yet have phones because we strongly believe this
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has to be modeled well by the parents.
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And we have four ways you can change your relationship with your phone.
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I'd love to talk about later, but it always begins with the parents.
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We have to model this well, but we model as parents, all of a sudden gets replicated
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by our kids, good and bad.
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And so we're at a moment in culture. And by the way, I'm very encouraged, really, truly.
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It's very easy to go down a rabbit hole of despair here when it comes to technology.
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I'm very encouraged by what people's awareness of this and waking up to like,
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Hey, this is doing some bad things. Kids don't like how it feels.
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I don't like how it feels apparent. I don't like the disconnect that I feel
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from it as a result. And so we have this belief and I'll say it probably,
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you know, one, 10 more times for anybody listening, who's struggling with it.
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The world can look different for anybody who wants to get ahead of it.
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The world can look different. This is not inevitable for your kids.
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This is not inevitable for your families.
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I really am so hopeful. And I believe this is the most hopeful opportunity we
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have in a relationship in 2024.
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And I know it and I know it because I've seen it in my own life.
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There was no one worse than me. I know because we've seen it in thousands of
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other people who have said, this has changed my life.
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Like this small little thing, this small little shift has changed everything
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about my family culture.
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So I get excited as you can tell about it because I'm so hopeful and we know
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the future can look different and it is not inevitable, the despair we feel right now.
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Let's lead. Let's be that confident leader. And let's lead by example.
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And so even when your kids don't have their own phones yet, this isn't just about the kids.
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This is about you taking ownership, responsibility, and taking care of yourself,
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really, and putting that phone down.
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What do you say to parents who say why there's no way i can that's our only
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source of you know that's only way my kids can get a hold of me is if my phone
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is on me we don't have a landline phone anymore so it's just a cell phone what
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happens if there's an emergency and my phone's in box.
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Well one i love the question and it is it that's that is indicative of the attachment
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we have to our phones that question alone because we begin to go to worst case
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scenarios and i would recommend to somebody, if you're, if your kid's away, don't put it in the box.
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That's probably a bad time to put it in the box. It's a pretty good time to
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be accessible whenever your kids are away.
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And so you're finding these moments and there's so much nuance in this,
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but let's, let's find these moments where we just don't need our phones.
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And I would argue when your kid is, my son's going to play a tennis match at
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two hours from us here today.
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I'm going to probably keep my phone with me because I want to be reachable when he's away.
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Right. And so, but when he's home, when everybody I love is at home and it's
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family dinner time, what a great time to disconnect from your phone.
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You know what I mean? So there's some nuance to it. And I completely agree.
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We're not necessarily advocating for a detox of devices.
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We're saying, okay, at this moment right now, is your phone necessary?
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And if the answer is no, probably a good time to not have your phone with you. Yeah.
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No, that's really good. And step two of no problem parenting is to prepare for the worst.
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So if you're in a situation where your kids are away and God,
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yeah, you're not going to use I think a lot of parents will go to the yeah buts,
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you know, yeah, but I can't this or yeah, but, you know, I need it for that or yeah.
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And again, like you say, that's our attachment that we've this,
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this connection we have to our phones that makes us, and that's very fear-based
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as well, which we're not about fear-based here at home parenting.
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Also, you'll find that the more you do it, just baby steps, putting it away,
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you'll realize, oh my gosh, I am more attached to that sucker than I ever thought I was. Right.
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This is 100% building a muscle.
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I believe it's building muscle. And I'll say something that you may disagree
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with me on, Jackie, and that would be totally fine.
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But as we talk about our phones, I found as a society, we talk about our phones
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and it sounds a little bit like this. You may have said this.
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I know I've said this. Other people may have heard this.
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We'll talk about our phones and we'll say like, oh, and almost laughing.
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I'm just so addicted to my phone and kind of.
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Which is one funny, because would we really ever talk like that about any real addiction?
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Like, you know me, I'm so hooked on heroin, you know, what can I do?
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You know, so it's not, it's not like we would talk about this,
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but I believe, and by the way, when someone laughs, the typical response to
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that is like, yeah, me too.
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Oh, I get it. And so we're using this term addiction, and you would know a lot
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about this, and addiction is a serious, serious thing.
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And there are absolutely things on our phones that have addictive characteristics to them.
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The dopamine rush and dopamine hits, totally get it. But in terms of an actual
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addiction to our phones, I would argue that,
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one, because clinically studies are showing that it doesn't quite show up as,
00:14:27.015 --> 00:14:30.395
for most of us, 98% of us, it doesn't quite share those characteristics.
00:14:30.415 --> 00:14:33.335
Those characteristics. It's a little bit more of compulsive behavior versus
00:14:33.335 --> 00:14:36.715
addictive behavior from what we see, what we've heard from smart people who
00:14:36.715 --> 00:14:38.995
aren't me. But that's what we hear from people.
00:14:39.595 --> 00:14:44.035
But even more than that, I think the label we put on it, on our relationship
00:14:44.035 --> 00:14:47.895
with our phone is very important because with the term addiction,
00:14:47.895 --> 00:14:50.595
what do people do when they go into 12-step program?
00:14:50.775 --> 00:14:55.155
The very first thing they say is, I'm completely powerless over this thing.
00:14:55.890 --> 00:14:59.130
And so what if we shifted this label when we talk about our relationship with
00:14:59.130 --> 00:15:04.530
our phone instead of I'm addicted to my phone, instead say, I have a bad habit with my phone.
00:15:05.170 --> 00:15:10.030
To me, mentally, that makes a huge shift from saying, one, I'm powerless into
00:15:10.030 --> 00:15:12.490
saying, oh, it's a habit. Okay, I can do something about a habit.
00:15:12.710 --> 00:15:16.190
Like I know what to do with habits. I'll just go read Atomic Habits by James
00:15:16.190 --> 00:15:21.130
Clear, which talks about, which is by the way, what our system is built on is
00:15:21.130 --> 00:15:24.090
cue a response reward, the habit loop.
00:15:24.690 --> 00:15:27.550
And so instead, if you say, I have agency over this thing, this means I can
00:15:27.550 --> 00:15:30.890
do something about it. And so I would encourage people as they're talking about
00:15:30.890 --> 00:15:32.210
it, watch that self-talk.
00:15:32.430 --> 00:15:35.890
Watch the way you talk about it to yourself. Watch the way you say it in front
00:15:35.890 --> 00:15:37.410
of your kids, saying that word addiction.
00:15:37.470 --> 00:15:41.410
I would argue that you don't have an addiction that you can't do anything about.
00:15:41.550 --> 00:15:45.190
I would argue you have a habit that you can absolutely do something about.
00:15:45.930 --> 00:15:47.950
Absolutely. What's the part I'm going to disagree with you on?
00:15:49.150 --> 00:15:53.010
You know when i talk to smart people like you i start sometimes people say no
00:15:53.010 --> 00:15:56.930
no it's no no it's absolutely addictive and dopamine and all that stuff again
00:15:56.930 --> 00:16:00.890
i i completely agree that i just think and i don't think there's no real data
00:16:00.890 --> 00:16:05.090
that would back up to say the vast majority of us are actually addicted to our
00:16:05.090 --> 00:16:08.210
phones so people may get into the nuance there and whether it's,
00:16:08.730 --> 00:16:12.310
whether maybe i'll lose credibility here whether that's clinically correct or
00:16:12.310 --> 00:16:16.850
not i do think the way that we label things, the way we talk about things has
00:16:16.850 --> 00:16:18.490
an extreme amount of power.
00:16:18.650 --> 00:16:23.330
Those words are so strong because we begin to identify ourselves.
00:16:23.510 --> 00:16:27.070
Because if you identify yourself as an addict to your phone,
00:16:27.430 --> 00:16:30.930
then what's going to happen? You're going to do things that a phone addict would do.
00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:34.330
If you identify yourself as that, you'll just start doing those things that
00:16:34.330 --> 00:16:36.730
somebody does. So it has to be an identity-based behavior.
00:16:36.990 --> 00:16:40.630
And if instead you say, no, I'm a present parent with a bad habit,
00:16:40.650 --> 00:16:45.050
I bet you're going to start doing something a present parent would do and work on that bad habit.
00:16:45.270 --> 00:16:48.370
Well, I wholeheartedly agree. And we don't have to be right.
00:16:49.040 --> 00:16:54.040
Just get to speak our truth and our experience supporting people in this way.
00:16:54.280 --> 00:16:57.700
And from your device, it's clearly working for a lot of people.
00:16:57.900 --> 00:17:02.760
So I love everything about that. Let's talk about those four ways to change.
00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:06.160
What did you say? Four ways to change your relationship with your phone.
00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:11.460
And I'll start real quick on the fact that we have a relationship with our phone.
00:17:11.820 --> 00:17:16.700
Let's take a step back here and recognize that's weird for an adult to have
00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:21.740
a relationship with an object, right? And it's so weird that it actually – you
00:17:21.740 --> 00:17:25.980
have to look to children to find other humans who have relationships with objects.
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:29.260
Children have relationships with objects. Those objects are called blankies
00:17:29.260 --> 00:17:31.640
and they're pacifiers and they're teddy bears.
00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:34.980
And you know this. Those objects are called transitional objects.
00:17:35.140 --> 00:17:38.680
Those are – another word for them are comfort objects. And they serve a really
00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:40.720
important purpose in a child's development.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.780
A comfort object, a transitional object, is something that a child clings to
00:17:44.780 --> 00:17:47.660
in the absence of their real security, in the absence of their parents.
00:17:47.660 --> 00:17:51.280
So it gives them a sense of security in the absence of their real security.
00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:57.140
And over time, a child realizes, oh, I don't need my blankie to do this. I can do this on my own.
00:17:57.320 --> 00:18:02.440
So it's an actual, it's a super helpful transition from kind of dependence to
00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.000
independence and believing they can do it on their own. It's really, really a great thing.
00:18:06.080 --> 00:18:10.320
But what's interesting about our phones is it's, we're clinging to this object
00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:11.860
for the first time since childhood.
00:18:12.360 --> 00:18:16.020
And it's actually devolving us back to adolescence. It's devolving us,
00:18:16.060 --> 00:18:17.520
it's making us all toddlers again.
00:18:17.660 --> 00:18:20.480
Right but what's interesting about it is that we're clinging to
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.300
this and it's not progressing us towards independence it's
00:18:23.300 --> 00:18:27.020
moving us backwards towards isolation we're doing this kids
00:18:27.020 --> 00:18:29.940
hold on to a blanket when their parents are gone when their real relationships
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:33.180
are gone we're clinging to a device when the our real relationships are in front
00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:36.280
of us we're doing this in the middle of conversations we're clinging to these
00:18:36.280 --> 00:18:40.640
at the dinner table so this relationship we have let's recognize this is weird
00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:44.780
and and it's a little weird we have a relationship with an object now it's because
00:18:44.780 --> 00:18:46.260
they're with us all the time.
00:18:46.600 --> 00:18:49.560
The three defining characteristics of a relationship are proximity,
00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:53.580
interaction, and dependence, PID, proximity, interaction, dependence.
00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:59.000
When we have something with us all the time, the proximity, we're going to use
00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:00.240
it more, the interaction.
00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:02.760
When we're around somebody more, we're going to interact with them more.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.360
And then you begin to get into a state of dependence, whether it's on a relationship.
00:19:06.460 --> 00:19:08.720
And I'm not saying dependence in necessarily a negative way.
00:19:08.820 --> 00:19:11.180
You need something or someone.
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:14.820
So the dependence is a really interesting one because our phones are really helpful.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.860
We like having them. They do great things for us. We're not going to get rid
00:19:17.860 --> 00:19:21.940
of them. But we start getting lulled into these false dependencies on our phones.
00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:26.220
And a false dependency, I'll give an example. The best one is the fact that
00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:29.800
people say, we all know we shouldn't have our phones with us overnight in our
00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:31.700
bedrooms. We know the blue light kills our sleep.
00:19:31.840 --> 00:19:34.020
We know it's not good to start the day off kind of scrolling the news.
00:19:34.120 --> 00:19:35.540
We know we shouldn't have our phones in us yet.
00:19:36.060 --> 00:19:39.320
A lot of us do because, well, it's my alarm clock.
00:19:40.020 --> 00:19:41.640
I use it for my alarm clock.
00:19:42.405 --> 00:19:47.005
Just email me, joey at goro.com. I'll send you $15 to go buy an alarm clock
00:19:47.005 --> 00:19:48.225
if that's really your problem, right?
00:19:48.405 --> 00:19:51.405
Like we don't really need that, but that's a false dependency.
00:19:51.665 --> 00:19:54.005
And because we have that false dependency, what does that do?
00:19:54.265 --> 00:19:58.065
That pushes us back towards proximity. So we're still going to have it with us more.
00:19:58.365 --> 00:20:03.305
So this PID loop, we call it the PID loop, P-I-D, PID loop, continues on proximity
00:20:03.305 --> 00:20:05.185
interaction dependence, and it keeps feeding on it.
00:20:05.265 --> 00:20:09.045
And we have to break the beginning point of that, which is proximity.
00:20:09.565 --> 00:20:13.165
So can we break that? Can we get our phones physically distant from us?
00:20:13.765 --> 00:20:17.925
This is a shocking stat to me every time I say it is that 91% of us have our
00:20:17.925 --> 00:20:19.805
phones with us 24 hours a day.
00:20:20.385 --> 00:20:23.805
91% of us don't have to move our feet. So they're just with us.
00:20:23.985 --> 00:20:25.365
And by the way, this is okay.
00:20:26.025 --> 00:20:29.445
What's okay about it is don't beat yourself up over it. Yes,
00:20:29.505 --> 00:20:31.465
make a change, but don't beat yourself up. We're still learning.
00:20:31.685 --> 00:20:35.365
This is so brand new to our brains. So that's a long way to,
00:20:35.505 --> 00:20:39.325
that's kind of a prologue into the four ways to change a relationship with your
00:20:39.325 --> 00:20:41.405
phone. And I'll make a definitive statement for everybody.
00:20:42.225 --> 00:20:46.465
I, you, society, we need to change our relationships with our phones.
00:20:46.665 --> 00:20:51.385
It is, we are in a dire circumstance where we have to, we are in a cultural
00:20:51.385 --> 00:20:56.645
intimacy crisis where I believe that our relationships are dying.
00:20:56.845 --> 00:21:00.185
The intimacy in our relationships are dying and it's death by a thousand glances,
00:21:00.505 --> 00:21:03.465
death by a thousand glances at our phone. It's not death by a thousand cuts,
00:21:03.605 --> 00:21:04.665
death by a thousand glances.
00:21:05.205 --> 00:21:08.505
And so we have to, we have to change this relationship with our phone.
00:21:08.505 --> 00:21:11.965
And when you do, the hopeful side of it is when you change your relationship
00:21:11.965 --> 00:21:16.005
with your phone, you change your relationship with everyone around you, including yourself.
00:21:16.305 --> 00:21:19.965
It's a beautiful thing that happens. So let's just, so, so as a,
00:21:19.985 --> 00:21:24.525
again, as an intro to the ways to change it, let's understand how important it is.
00:21:24.585 --> 00:21:28.025
We do have a relationship. We do need to change it. One interesting thing on
00:21:28.025 --> 00:21:32.425
the interaction side, 89% of our smartphone usage is self-initiated.
00:21:32.685 --> 00:21:36.345
It's not inbound notifications that are getting us.
00:21:36.565 --> 00:21:40.165
It's actually us having them with us, seeing and thinking, oh,
00:21:40.285 --> 00:21:43.465
yeah, gosh, how did the Timberwolves do last night?
00:21:43.765 --> 00:21:47.205
And then the Timberwolves score shifts into what's the weather tomorrow?
00:21:47.365 --> 00:21:48.425
Hey, you know what? I wonder what's happening.
00:21:48.725 --> 00:21:52.265
So then all of a sudden, we're gone. And so that's us that's doing that.
00:21:52.405 --> 00:21:54.465
So it's us self-initiating that behavior.
00:21:54.765 --> 00:21:58.265
And it's because it's with us all the time. make the most obvious statement
00:21:58.265 --> 00:22:01.865
and you'll probably kick me off the podcast after i say this because it's such a dumb statement.
00:22:02.706 --> 00:22:08.346
You can't use your phone if it's not with you. So let's go to the root of it.
00:22:08.486 --> 00:22:12.566
Let's remove the need. Let's remove the need for self-discipline.
00:22:12.746 --> 00:22:14.546
Let's change that environment.
00:22:14.826 --> 00:22:18.466
Again, back to James Clear. He says an environment is always stronger than willpower.
00:22:18.666 --> 00:22:21.446
If you're relying on your willpower for something and your environment's not
00:22:21.446 --> 00:22:23.426
conducive to it, you're going to fail every time.
00:22:23.966 --> 00:22:28.086
Environment eats self-discipline lunch every single day.
00:22:28.606 --> 00:22:33.066
Absolutely. That is step one of no problem parenting. seek first to understand
00:22:33.066 --> 00:22:35.066
why is my child behaving the way they are?
00:22:35.186 --> 00:22:40.046
Why am I responding or reacting to my child's behavior the way I am?
00:22:40.326 --> 00:22:44.626
And at the root of a lot of what parents come to me with, there's this fear-based
00:22:44.626 --> 00:22:47.286
or this, and we're doing it to ourselves, right?
00:22:47.526 --> 00:22:50.166
One of the first things I say when people are glued to their phones is,
00:22:50.226 --> 00:22:52.526
number one, put your notifications on the second page.
00:22:52.666 --> 00:22:55.386
Don't have that be the first thing when you pull up your phone if you need to
00:22:55.386 --> 00:22:56.726
make a phone call, right?
00:22:57.126 --> 00:23:00.766
Or something. But you're right. It's not just about notifications. Everything
00:23:00.766 --> 00:23:03.546
is on demand right now if we have a thought or a question or an
00:23:03.546 --> 00:23:06.706
idea about we can just we just pick it up and instead
00:23:06.706 --> 00:23:09.866
you know instead of delayed gratification it's just
00:23:09.866 --> 00:23:13.106
instant gratification all the time and so yeah
00:23:13.106 --> 00:23:16.026
so i could go all over the place but i don't get to these four ways there
00:23:16.026 --> 00:23:19.866
you go four with with you know like a drum roll now all that i do yeah exactly
00:23:19.866 --> 00:23:23.746
so and these we we've made these easy to remember they're alliterative so they
00:23:23.746 --> 00:23:27.666
all start with s so the four s's when it comes to changing a relationship with
00:23:27.666 --> 00:23:31.726
your phone the first one this is kind of a play on Simon Sinek's book several
00:23:31.726 --> 00:23:33.226
years ago, which was Start With Why.
00:23:33.566 --> 00:23:37.326
The first way to change your relationship with your phone is to start with I.
00:23:37.886 --> 00:23:41.886
Start with yourself. This is not as obvious as it might sound.
00:23:42.595 --> 00:23:46.915
There are, the Surgeon General says, you know, this is a national health crisis,
00:23:46.915 --> 00:23:49.155
you know, initiated largely by smartphones.
00:23:49.435 --> 00:23:51.875
There are a lot of people, smart people, Jonathan Haidt, who has a brilliant
00:23:51.875 --> 00:23:54.295
book called The Anxious Generation that everybody should read.
00:23:54.595 --> 00:23:57.995
He says that we need to ban phones in schools. Totally agree.
00:23:58.215 --> 00:24:01.575
I totally agree. We need to have legislation around this.
00:24:01.875 --> 00:24:05.935
Children should not get social media at a young age, and that needs to be actually
00:24:05.935 --> 00:24:07.435
legislated. No question.
00:24:08.535 --> 00:24:12.135
However, all that however, we can't wait on other people.
00:24:12.995 --> 00:24:17.695
I can't wait on lawmakers. I can't wait on the surgeon general.
00:24:18.015 --> 00:24:22.675
I can't wait on the schools to do the right thing. I have to start with myself.
00:24:23.075 --> 00:24:26.755
Am I modeling the right relationship? And we talk a lot about for our kids.
00:24:26.855 --> 00:24:28.735
Am I modeling the right relationship for my kids?
00:24:29.255 --> 00:24:32.215
We all have this opportunity to be thermostats, not thermometers.
00:24:32.495 --> 00:24:34.135
We're the ones that are setting the temperature.
00:24:34.435 --> 00:24:37.695
So we can do this for ourselves. And it begins with yourself. Right.
00:24:37.875 --> 00:24:40.515
Because the historical model, when it comes to raising kids with phones,
00:24:40.735 --> 00:24:44.615
talk about the three M's, the three M's. We model a bad relationship with our phones.
00:24:44.815 --> 00:24:48.215
Our kids mimic what we model. And then we do something crazy.
00:24:48.215 --> 00:24:51.735
We get mad at them for mimicking what we modeled to them. We're the ones,
00:24:51.855 --> 00:24:53.155
we're the ones who started it.
00:24:53.295 --> 00:24:55.995
So to quote Taylor Swift, it's me. I'm the problem. Right.
00:24:56.235 --> 00:25:00.195
So, so we have to start with ourselves. And Jackie, imagine,
00:25:00.375 --> 00:25:03.635
just imagine if all of us started with ourselves.
00:25:04.295 --> 00:25:07.515
This crisis would be over today it would
00:25:07.515 --> 00:25:10.355
be done if we all started with ourselves so the first one
00:25:10.355 --> 00:25:13.175
start with i always begin with yourself don't blame
00:25:13.175 --> 00:25:16.235
your spouse don't blame your kids the kids are not the problem we are
00:25:16.235 --> 00:25:18.975
the problems they learned it from us right got it
00:25:18.975 --> 00:25:22.895
so that's yes social media companies i know the algorithms i know i do get all
00:25:22.895 --> 00:25:27.295
that but let's start with ourselves so that's one start with i the second one
00:25:27.295 --> 00:25:31.875
and this is very very tactical it's very prescriptive and i want everybody to
00:25:31.875 --> 00:25:36.655
spend that's second s spend one hour a day physically distant from your phone.
00:25:37.320 --> 00:25:42.240
One hour per day. So I've given, we're using one hour because it's very,
00:25:42.360 --> 00:25:44.720
very specific. It's very, very achievable.
00:25:45.060 --> 00:25:49.620
But I understand back to the stat that 91% of us have not done that in a long time.
00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:51.940
In fact, when you spend any amount of time away from your phone,
00:25:52.080 --> 00:25:55.900
you join the 9% club, 9% who don't spend, you know, don't have their phone with them.
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.420
So if you've not done this, think of this as building a muscle.
00:25:59.520 --> 00:26:02.580
We said that earlier, start with five minutes today. Just start,
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:03.920
start a little bit. It's okay.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:06.580
Just, just begin understanding that you're running a marathon.
00:26:06.780 --> 00:26:10.200
This is a marathon, not a sprint. So start with five minutes today and then
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:12.140
maybe do six minutes tomorrow.
00:26:12.560 --> 00:26:18.800
And then the next day do seven minutes, do it every single day and progress up towards an hour.
00:26:19.020 --> 00:26:22.320
Now, if you're somebody who is doing, who has, does have an hour a day,
00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:26.060
but I'm going to say something, and this is not self-righteousness because again,
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:28.800
I'm the kid, I'm the guy who missed his sons for a soccer goal.
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:32.420
Like there was nobody worse than me. I spend about three and a half hours away
00:26:32.420 --> 00:26:36.700
from my phone every day, which is unheard of for me. I was absolutely leading
00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:41.360
the charge in the 91% crowd before, but it's because I've built up slowly in that.
00:26:41.500 --> 00:26:45.140
So if you are already doing about an hour, once you hit an hour and a half today,
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:49.820
what about an hour, 45, two hours, keep building up that time physically distant from your phone.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.220
So the second one, I'll say it again. Second one is spend one hour physically
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:54.080
distant from your phone.
00:26:54.739 --> 00:26:59.779
Third one, I want you to establish sacred times and sacred places,
00:27:00.219 --> 00:27:01.759
phone-free zones in your home.
00:27:02.059 --> 00:27:05.739
Sacred times, sacred places. And again, the concept of sacred,
00:27:05.879 --> 00:27:09.159
we all have the power to establish something as sacred. This is sacred.
00:27:09.579 --> 00:27:12.999
And so I'll give you a start with this. And this is really, really powerful.
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:14.899
And this just becomes the culture in your home.
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.939
A sacred time could be the first 30 minutes after you wake up in the morning.
00:27:19.439 --> 00:27:23.199
No phone time. The last 30 minutes of the day right before you go to sleep.
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:24.599
By the way, your sleep will thank you.
00:27:24.739 --> 00:27:28.039
Your body will thank you if you do that the last 30 minutes before you go to bed.
00:27:28.299 --> 00:27:31.279
Those are easy, sacred times, sacred places.
00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:36.779
The, the, the one that I would recommend for everybody is make the table a sacred place.
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.739
If all else fails, if everything goes wrong, the table is your sacred place.
00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:43.219
And that could be breakfast, lunch, or dinner.
00:27:43.399 --> 00:27:46.379
This, the, the table, because that's, and do people want to,
00:27:46.439 --> 00:27:48.259
what do I talk about? Do high lows with your families?
00:27:48.399 --> 00:27:50.499
What was your height of the day? What was the low today? High low Buffalo.
00:27:50.659 --> 00:27:52.259
What's the crazy thing that happened? That's the Buffalo.
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.659
So establish that sacred place. One that I love for young kids,
00:27:55.779 --> 00:28:01.419
if you have young kids, is their bedroom is a sacred place where you never bring your phone.
00:28:01.639 --> 00:28:03.899
Even just set it. If you have an RO box, put it in the RO box.
00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:09.139
Or just leave it right there in the hallway right outside of their door, and it never enters.
00:28:09.639 --> 00:28:14.239
That'll transform. That'll bestow value on a child, which is a pretty amazing thing.
00:28:14.459 --> 00:28:18.039
Yeah, I love that. So that's the third thing. Establish sacred times and sacred
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:19.919
places physically distant from your phone.
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:24.139
The fourth one is my favorite. The fourth one, because there's some,
00:28:24.259 --> 00:28:27.419
you know, the hour away from your phone, that's kind of science, that's tactical.
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:31.139
This is a little bit of art on this one, and it's a really cool opportunity
00:28:31.139 --> 00:28:34.159
for all of us, is to search for moments of connection.
00:28:34.899 --> 00:28:37.839
Now, this requires you to be on the lookout. So you have to,
00:28:37.919 --> 00:28:42.859
the term RO, RO means to notice. So this requires you to really be on the notice lookout.
00:28:43.910 --> 00:28:47.750
And these moments for connection are all around us. And it's just kind of us
00:28:47.750 --> 00:28:50.050
making the most of them. So I'll give a couple examples.
00:28:50.310 --> 00:28:54.130
If my 14-year-old daughter, Gianna, walked in from school and her shoulders
00:28:54.130 --> 00:28:57.530
were a little bit slumped, physical, and I noticed that, like,
00:28:57.650 --> 00:28:59.030
huh, something's off, right?
00:28:59.190 --> 00:29:03.130
Or if my son Harrison says, Dad, it was a rough day at tennis practice.
00:29:03.690 --> 00:29:06.770
Or if my wife says, you won't believe what happened in the grocery store.
00:29:07.250 --> 00:29:10.770
These are all moments. It's almost like the Gottman Institute calls these bids.
00:29:10.910 --> 00:29:14.870
These are bids that people around us are putting out. that's waiting for us to connect with them.
00:29:15.590 --> 00:29:19.130
And we have an opportunity in those moments to make something pretty magical happen.
00:29:20.030 --> 00:29:23.630
And what I want you to do when my son, if he were to say, hey,
00:29:23.630 --> 00:29:26.710
dad, you won't believe what happened at tennis practice, or it was a bad tennis
00:29:26.710 --> 00:29:31.910
practice, I can say what I believe are the six most powerful words in a relationship in 2024.
00:29:32.390 --> 00:29:35.870
And it's crazy and maybe a little bit sad that these are the six most powerful words.
00:29:36.390 --> 00:29:40.530
All I say to Harrison is, oh, buddy, I got to hear this. Let me put down my phone.
00:29:41.330 --> 00:29:46.110
And I go physically remove my phone from the situation. So what that's doing, that's six words.
00:29:46.230 --> 00:29:48.390
I'm not saying, oh, I'm going to be the most present dad ever.
00:29:48.490 --> 00:29:52.130
I'm making just a quick statement that he may not even hear. Let me put it on my phone.
00:29:52.330 --> 00:29:55.390
I go physically remove it from the situation. I go put it in my RO box.
00:29:55.410 --> 00:29:59.210
I go put it in a drawer, but I get it out of my visual field of sight and away from my body.
00:29:59.810 --> 00:30:02.630
And then I'm with him. And then I make eye contact with him.
00:30:03.050 --> 00:30:07.910
So let me ask you, what do you think that would do for a 16-year-old boy,
00:30:07.910 --> 00:30:10.450
a young man who wants to become a good man.
00:30:10.950 --> 00:30:14.070
What do you think that, what do you think that, again, I get emotional talking
00:30:14.070 --> 00:30:15.890
about this because of the power that's in this.
00:30:16.110 --> 00:30:19.870
What do you think that would do for a 14-year-old girl when she's then confronted,
00:30:20.590 --> 00:30:24.870
with body shaming or body comparison or when she's confronted with bullying
00:30:24.870 --> 00:30:28.150
when she knows, yeah, this doesn't feel good, but you know what?
00:30:28.630 --> 00:30:32.990
I know I have the security of my dad's love because I know my dad looks at me,
00:30:33.070 --> 00:30:34.310
that my dad's locked in with me.
00:30:34.410 --> 00:30:37.690
What do you think that does for my wife in intimacy and a marriage that she
00:30:37.690 --> 00:30:40.030
knows that her words are valuable to me.
00:30:40.170 --> 00:30:43.430
What you're doing when you physically remove that phone, you're saying to that,
00:30:43.470 --> 00:30:46.470
to them, to that person on the other side of the table, you're saying that 8
00:30:46.470 --> 00:30:50.550
billion people can theoretically reach me on my phone and you are more important
00:30:50.550 --> 00:30:52.070
than every single one of them.
00:30:52.795 --> 00:30:57.335
Jackie, this opportunity is available to everyone today. We all have this.
00:30:57.455 --> 00:30:58.935
You don't need an RO box for this.
00:30:59.135 --> 00:31:02.475
You don't need to have, you don't need anything magical. This is available to
00:31:02.475 --> 00:31:05.435
all of us. This is the greatest lever we have in a relationship.
00:31:05.575 --> 00:31:09.495
The lever is something that requires minimum input, that gives you maximum output.
00:31:09.735 --> 00:31:12.515
And this is available to us, to every one of us today.
00:31:12.675 --> 00:31:15.495
This is a game changer. It will absolutely change your life.
00:31:15.615 --> 00:31:18.655
It will absolutely change your relationships. It will absolutely change your family's culture.
00:31:18.815 --> 00:31:21.935
And it's available and accessible to every single one of us today.
00:31:21.935 --> 00:31:27.655
It makes so much sense, and it is so inspiring and hope-filled rather than fear-based.
00:31:27.775 --> 00:31:29.495
Yeah, absolutely. Right? And so practical.
00:31:29.955 --> 00:31:34.175
Noticing is one of the steps in No Problem Parenting. It's part of the change of the conversation.
00:31:34.675 --> 00:31:38.515
Noticing creates curiosity in our kids. And when we're creating curiosity,
00:31:38.515 --> 00:31:41.095
they're in the front part, the prefrontal cortex part of their brain,
00:31:41.175 --> 00:31:42.395
not in fight or flight, right?
00:31:42.695 --> 00:31:47.715
Noticing and curiosity, seeing our kids, making sure that they know they are
00:31:47.715 --> 00:31:52.195
seen and heard and validated and acknowledged. Not that we're lecturing them
00:31:52.195 --> 00:31:53.895
or we're teaching them everything, right?
00:31:53.995 --> 00:31:59.015
But we're just present for them and honoring and acknowledging what they are
00:31:59.015 --> 00:32:01.315
going through without feeling the need to fix it.
00:32:01.935 --> 00:32:04.995
I love how you say that 8 billion people in the world. And right now,
00:32:05.115 --> 00:32:09.655
you are the one I'm focusing on. You are the one that's important to me. That is brilliant.
00:32:09.875 --> 00:32:11.835
How do people get an RO?
00:32:12.075 --> 00:32:17.855
It's A-R-O. I also love the fact that that means to notice. Didn't know that. So that's brilliant.
00:32:18.355 --> 00:32:21.935
How do they get a hold of one of these ROs and tell us more about how they can
00:32:21.935 --> 00:32:22.895
get in contact with them?
00:32:23.430 --> 00:32:28.190
Yeah, everybody can go to GoAro.com, G-O-A-R-O.
00:32:28.350 --> 00:32:33.770
We think of that as a verb, GoAro. We want you to GoAro, go live a life of Aro. So GoAro.com.
00:32:34.250 --> 00:32:38.090
Aro is a membership, so you get access to the app, and then along with that,
00:32:38.250 --> 00:32:40.610
you get the Aro box that comes along with it.
00:32:40.890 --> 00:32:43.530
Depending on when this airs, we are going through a shift later in the year
00:32:43.530 --> 00:32:46.830
where you can subscribe to Aro just at the software portion of it,
00:32:46.890 --> 00:32:50.130
and then you can purchase a box alongside it. So that will be later this year,
00:32:50.210 --> 00:32:55.290
but for now, depending on when this airs, it will be, it's something you can get kind of all in one.
00:32:55.870 --> 00:32:59.370
So that's one way you can follow us on Instagram. Yes, we are on Instagram.
00:32:59.450 --> 00:33:02.350
It's at go R O now. That's a great community.
00:33:02.610 --> 00:33:05.250
It's, it's great content that will kind of help practically help you.
00:33:05.430 --> 00:33:09.510
We have our podcast, which is called the R O podcast that you can tune into as well.
00:33:09.630 --> 00:33:12.750
But yeah, if you're, this is for, this is for somebody Jack that I'll say also
00:33:12.750 --> 00:33:16.070
is this is for somebody who says, Hey, I'm struggling with this.
00:33:16.290 --> 00:33:19.470
Hey, I'm, I feel the tension. Hey, this is, I need some help.
00:33:19.550 --> 00:33:21.430
I may have tried this on my own. I've tried the basket.
00:33:21.650 --> 00:33:24.310
I've tried, you know, maybe some other apps. I've tried some other things.
00:33:24.470 --> 00:33:29.030
This is, this is for the person who says I could use a little bit of help and I can make a promise.
00:33:29.070 --> 00:33:32.170
And I feel great making this promise that it will change your life.
00:33:32.270 --> 00:33:37.090
If you use RO as we, you know, as we kind of guide direct, um,
00:33:37.130 --> 00:33:38.950
it will change your life. It will change your family.
00:33:39.090 --> 00:33:41.470
This is something that the people tell us all the time. Hey,
00:33:41.530 --> 00:33:44.590
I tried a bunch of other stuff and, and this is the one that's made the difference.
00:33:44.770 --> 00:33:47.710
So we'd love to have you. This is not a sales pitch in any way,
00:33:47.810 --> 00:33:50.610
but I do feel very confident in saying that if you are curious,
00:33:50.690 --> 00:33:52.890
if you are, if you have struggled, this, this will make a difference.
00:33:53.930 --> 00:33:58.650
So awesome. I really appreciate you coming on and introducing this to my audience
00:33:58.650 --> 00:34:02.750
and being a resource, another resource that's going to help parents become the
00:34:02.750 --> 00:34:04.970
confident leader I say our kids crave us to be.
00:34:05.110 --> 00:34:07.910
So thanks so much for being on the show today. Thanks, Jackie.
00:34:07.970 --> 00:34:09.010
I love the time. Thank you.
00:34:10.410 --> 00:34:13.390
All right, parents, that's it for today. Thanks for listening to the No Problem
00:34:13.390 --> 00:34:17.110
Parenting Podcast. remember with the right tools and a confident mindset,
00:34:17.450 --> 00:34:22.090
every parenting challenge, every parenting problem can be turned into a no problem.
00:34:22.310 --> 00:34:25.030
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00:34:25.370 --> 00:34:27.270
consider joining us in the nest.
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Kicking off in January of 2025, our power hour calls, our resource library and
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Early bird pricing is available now. So learn more at noproblemparents.com.
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And let's keep building that confident, no problem parenting mindset one step at a time.