IDL IS ON ESPN2… DANCE GOES MAINSTREAM | URBAN OUTFITTERS x DANCE TEAM | NCG 73

Kyle Rush: What is going on, everybody, and welcome back to No Counts Given. I'm your host, Kyle Rush, and what an episode I have planned for you today. From urban outfitters to car to ESPN to IDL. Some hot topics circulating around the dance industry right now. Have you been tuning in to No Counts Given Live every Tuesday and Thursday for this month? I have been going live and we are talking about IDL. We have been talking about The Soul Stop, we talked about round one, we talked about round two, and now we're getting into each team and breaking down their journey at the IDL so far. This past Tuesday I did quick style. If you tuned into that live, thank you so much for bearing with me. I was recovering from a three day choreography trip. And today's Wednesday that I'm filming this. And today's the first day that I actually feel back to normal. I feel back to normal today. My body feels healthy today. I don't feel sore. It was easy to get out of bed this morning. And what's so funny about that is that I literally leave Friday for another choreography trip. This evening, we're going to be looking at Jam Republic and their journey at the IDL so far. So if you want to hop in, join in on the conversation, watch some IDL videos of Jam Republic, come and join me this evening, Thursday, August 13th at 5:30 p.m. Pacific Time, that's California. You do the math and wherever you are located at. Now, if you don't tune into the live and you're not able to tune into the live, and I understand because we are all busy, I get it, ⁓ you could tune in after. The lives are saved. However, I do have to say if you do tune into the lives afterwards, I do make cuts and edits to save the video from any copyright claims. So if you are hopping in and you're seeing weird cuts and edits and you're not actually seeing the full performances. You gotta tune into the lives for that. I'm sorry, you have to tune into the lives for that. All right, before we get into all of the conversation on today's episode, I could not do this without my sponsors, Dance Team Union, Sharpen Up Dance Team Training, and Dance Team Supply. The College Classic has officially launched their annual Road to Nationals contest to provide an opportunity to earn funding towards your nationals experience. DTU's motto, We're Here for You, continues to drive their commitment to supporting teams. This is the first of many opportunities DTU has set in place to make your journey to nationals smoother in the DTU for you initiative. So check out how you can enter by visiting thecollegeclassic.com. ⁓ did anyone else see this? This is ⁓ pretty major. And we did talk about this ever so briefly on Tuesdays Live. This is the All Together Now campaign by Urban Outfitters, and it is featuring some Actually, many names that we have talked about here on the podcast: San Diego State University, GRV, which we cover on the IDL. We also have UNLV, which we have talked about quite a few times here on the podcast, as well as Rutgers, some iconic names in the dance team industry and dance industry alone. If you think about GRV, were involved in this movement is the moment, bringing together 76 different dancers, marching bands, athletes, creators, and students. From more than 10 universities to celebrate connection, shared experiences, the joy of joining and coming all together now. Now, this is not a sponsorship. However, I will say this is an endorsement. This is an endorsement, ⁓ because I am here for this. I like to see these college athletes on this kind of platform and these campaigns surrounding these college athletes. And I already know there's gonna be so many people that are like, ⁓ well, what's in it for the athletes? Do the athletes get paid? What do they give? What are they just being used ⁓ for their name and likeness? And Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think this is major. And I think this pushed this pushes dance and dance team in the dance industry to be in main media like this. And this is pretty incredible. I mean, right here you see you have Elijah from UNLV right here on the cover. That's crazy. This is so crazy. So congratulations to all the dancers that were able to be. In this video and celebrate with Urban Outfitters and be a part of this movement. I feel like we kind of saw something like this coming. I think we saw some of the UNLV boys at like an Urban Outfitters event a few months ago. I didn't think it was going to be to this extent of the partnership or what whatever the sponsorship, the campaign. ⁓ but this is major. So I love seeing this. We're gonna celebrate it. We're gonna watch it. Let's hit play. Insane congratulations to all the dancers that were represented in that video. Amazing, amazing stuff. ⁓ I'm excited to just see. I know I saw some pictures too. Like, so I know that there was some kind of photo shoot. I want to see these photos. This is amazing. I just so happy for all of these dancers. So congratulations to each of these dancers that were represented in that video. All right, did anyone else see? We gotta talk about it. Anyone else see? man, let's let's just flip over. Did anyone else see this from car? Now I I have to talk about this because I find this very interesting. When you look at this for face value, great, great marketing, right? Like it's easy clickbait. You're gonna get people to comment. It's easy to engage with a post like this, right? Now, where the first issue that a lot of people started to have was that this was AI generated content. Now, this is not a real trophy. If you even zoom in here, not existent in what's being said in the words right there. Like this is all AI generated content, which is very interesting because you would think a competition would have content that they could use instead of generating dancers doing leaps. And however, when I was reading through the comments, I was able to read that the reason why they were using AI generated content is because. For a post that says this, studio 404 Dance Academy, you left without paying. You've we've been trying to contact you. This is your final warning. They're not going to want to plaster an actual dancer from an actual studio right here. If it's like a call out ⁓ post, right? Now, there's ways that you can do this, obviously, without having AI generated content. And I know that the AI conversation and dance has been circulating quite a bit in the past, I would say maybe year or two, because it really does take away creative freedom from a lot of creatives. And that's that's going beyond just choreographers now. Like that's going to marketing directors, that's going to any kind of editors that you have. Who's making this post right here? Was this requested from like a marketing director to make it? AI. And is it actually taking away from your creatives that you have working for you? Now that's not for me to say. I'm not here to say that. Now, what my issue was, not my issue, not my issue, because I don't compete at car to be honest with you. I could care less. I find this a little funny. I'm scrolling on the comments, okay? And why and We're gonna get into Neo's post here in a little bit, but the responses back that Carr had blew my mind. Okay. ⁓ let's actually get into Neo's post because Neo here, she is a colleague of mine. We've had our fair share of conversations now and again surrounding the dance team world, the dance industry, sharing our own opinions. And there is not a lot of things I disagree with when it comes to Neo. And if there are, I know that we could have healthy conversations surrounding it. However, let's get into Neo's post because I love what she had to say. I think it's very spot on, it's very direct, and I'm here for it. I told her, listen, Neo, and I said this to you last time. You we were talking about a post that you had up, and you were getting a lot of backlash. And I I kept telling you, use your voice, continue use your using your voice. It is very much so needed. So I'm happy to see that you are always pushing to have your voice out there. And trust me. We're we're we're we're we're hearing you girl. We're hearing ya. Before we continue on with the show, make no counts given your go-to summer dance podcast. We're talking industry interviews, routine highlights, hot topics, blind items, and all the dance news you need to know. Whether you're on your way to practice, headed to camp, driving to your next choreography job, or just need to hear a relatable voice in the dance world, we've got you covered all summer long. So do me a favor. Subscribe, like, leave us a five-star rating, and turn on those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. Dance Team Union is a proud sponsor of No Counts Given. Dance Team Union was established in 2016 and since year one, DTU has grown to host one of the most elite Dance Team Nationals in the country. With nearly 300 teams from more than 35 states, the atmosphere of DTU Nationals is unlike any other. Teams push boundaries in nine different styles of dance and set the bar high in the battle competitions, creating a crowd you have never seen before. At DTU, there is no limit on the number of dancers and no limit on your creativity and vision. Their mission is to ensure you are the main event. Your voice matters, your artistry is just as important as your athleticism. You're celebrated for the work you have done to create what you bring to the floor. Join the movement at DTU Nationals on March 4th to the 7th, 2027, in Orlando, Florida for an experience that is all about you. For those that might be watching that don't know Carr, Carr is one of the largest dance competitions in the United States. Like if you're thinking of Dance Studio, I mean, even if you think about Dance Team, Carr probably surpasses so many events. They will have. Like I know San Jose location in California. There's like six different weekends or something. Los Angeles and Anaheim and all of these different events. So like they go to these hotels several times. I'm sure the partnerships that they have with these hotels is they you know, they're rolling in some money. They will pro they probably host over 300 competitions easily in a season. Which means they got the money. Which means they got the money. Do not use AI generated content. About a fake dance studio. The entire purpose seemed to be getting people to click, to argue, and to engage with the post. All right, we clicked on it because it seems so out of character. Like, look at this. Why would you be calling out a studio? That doesn't even make sense. Now you can debate whether that's clever marketing. But what concerned me even more is what happened afterward. Okay, so when dance teachers, studio owners, and parents, and some kids, ⁓ expressed concerns in the comments about them using AI when you have a whole marketing team. The official competition account responded with popcorn emojis. Popcorn emojis. I agree with this, car our sweet car. I hope the AI was because of the joke. Popcorn. So when customers are having an issue. You reply with popcorn. This is where I start scratching my head. I'm like, Ooh, who's running this social? We need to have a chat. Not a great look for car. Not a great look. They got the engagement, but not a great look. Laughing emojis, sarcastic remarks. ⁓ and it seemed as if the tot This person this person down here said, I could have made this post for you instead of AI. They said, Let's see your version, send in send in DM. Hmm. I don't know. Someone's losing their job. The total goal was to create more drama rather than have a professional conversation. Mm-hmm. And that's the part that bothers me. ⁓ my God. When did youth dance organizations become comfortable with So extra, Neo. So extra. I love it. So extra. Responding to educators and customers this way. Like you're not a meme page. You're not a gossip account. We're an organization that serves thousands of children children and parents and studios and dance educators and c and mind you people that spend I don't even know if I could put a dollar amount. Like you do the math. Okay. If you do five, six competitions in a season, let's say six competitions in a season, your dancer competes six routines, and each of those routines costs sixty dollars. You do the math. Like the amount of money that is poured into these studios, this is what I usually have an issue with is that. When you could see that there is a lack of care for people who invest so much money into your business. And that lack of transparency is what makes me scratch my head in some cases. And the sad part is the sad part is people will not care. They will not care. So it's just a lack of care for people that are pouring thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. You would not be able to be car if it wasn't for your customers and to your business. So to have that lack of care in your responses to your customers or to just people that support you. I hate to see it. I hate to see it. Choreographers every weekend, but it's in the spirit of kids. Kids dance. So here's the tea ha ha. Whether we realize it or not, organizations teach culture. And every interaction communicates what's acceptable. So if national competitions are publicly modeling dismissive sarcasm and grab the boot ⁓ grab the popcorn responses to criticism, what messages are we sending to not only the next generation of dancers, but who are we trying to attract to show up to these competitions and compete against each other? I don't think it's the friendly studios. And if you're signaling to potential clients that we're going to shame you or mock you, Publicly like who who who's gonna come? Who's gonna come? Who wants to come and participate in that? That's crazy 'cause that is not this brand at all. What's really interesting and I'm quite surprised at is that there's been no public acknowledgement or accountability so far. Like whoever was and I am still we're gonna let the video finish, but as of I'm gonna tell you now as of Wednesday, August twelfth at four seventeen PM ⁓ we're gonna go and look to see if there's been any public acknowledgement from car at all. But I'm pretty sure there has not been. I would have heard about it. I'm pretty sure there has not been. Running the account. I I need for the organization to say something. If you're not gonna say anything, then that means that you're so okay with that behavior and that's how you want your customers to be treated. Gross. I digress because the focus isn't about just one Instagram post. It's about leadership. So what kind of culture are we building in youth dance? Are we building one rooted in professionalism and accountability and education? Or are we rewarding outrage, engagement at any cost, and drama because it gets more clicks? Those are very different visions for the future of our dance industry. And I'd love to hear what other dance educators think. It's very bad business practices, that's for sure. All right, let's see if car has had any responses yet. Let's look at their most recent post. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. No public response yet from carr. And I guarantee you, this is exactly how they're going to do it. They're going to include it at the very bottom of a newsletter that only a bulk of their clientele read. And it's going to be an apology of some sort. So then when those bulk of their clients talk to their other clients and they say, ⁓ but did you see that thing that car said? What did you think about that? ⁓ no, girl, they apologize. ⁓ they did. ⁓ okay. I know how it goes. I know how it goes. I know how it goes. Anyways, I'm curious if you guys' thoughts. What do we think about Car's response? What do we think about this whole situation? Is this something that we care too much about that we don't care enough about? leave what you gotta say in the comments down below. Let's talk about it because this has sparked a huge conversation around IDL and around just dance in general. And while I think A lot of conversations are healthy to have surrounding the sportification of dance and removing the art of dance. I think there are very healthy conversations to have. I think there are some conversations that are being presented in this day and age that are very toxic and very unhealthy. Dance team union regional competitions are unlike any other. DTU has created an atmosphere that is not only friendly and competitive, but brings your community together to support one another in a sport you all share and love. DTU values innovation and the determination to create. Your teams spend hours perfecting material and pushing the boundaries for choreography. It does not go unnoticed at Dance Team Union. At DTU, you do not go home empty-handed. They award placements in every division for every routine, select specialty awards to standout routines, and offer partial paid bids to our national championships and all-star worlds with their partners at the Open Championship Series. So what are you waiting for? Find out when they will be heading to a city near you and visit www.daneteamunion.com. This was July 27th. The International Dance League, IDL, and ESBN announced a global rights agreement for the 2026 season. The series will be presented in the US bi-weekly on ESBN 2 at 7 p.m. Eastern Time, starting on July 28th. Now, here's the schedule. This is not a sponsorship. This is an endorsement. I have talked very widely on IDL. I have covered every single IDL stop so far. ⁓ New York. July twenty eighth, which was when this was first posted. August 10th, which was Vancouver. That was just for me three, two, two days ago. ⁓ I was not able to catch it. First things first, I want to watch it mainly because I would like to support and watch it on ESPN two and show my support by giving them a view. But I wanted to see the creative side of it and if it has stuck close to the same vision that they have been presenting us with on YouTube. ⁓ now I talked about this on Instagram very briefly. IDL being on ESPN. I don't know about ESPN too, but IDL being on ESPN is not the first time we've seen dance on ESPN. Actually, UDA College of Nationals is ⁓ premiered on ESPN every year. There's like, I don't know, it's like two months afterwards. So it's not the first time that we've seen dance on ESPN. However, I will say I think it might be one of the first times that we're actually seeing dance platformed as a true sport on ESPN. This is just a personal opinion. For me, it's hard for me to say that UDA actually platforms dance on ESPN. One, not only as a sport, but two, still allowing the creative integrity from all parties involved. As soon as it is handed over to ESPN, it just kind of feels like the whole creative side that makes dance special is removed. And it's very interesting because one thing that Connor Lim, who's the commissioner of IDL, spoke about is that they're they have all creative rights to it. There is nothing that ESPN is taking over and they're going to ESPN fy it, right? They're they have all creative rights on how it is being published. And that I feel like is one very important. As long as the commissioner, Connor Lim, and all parties involved in creating IDL to be on ESPN are still allowing it to have the creatum freedom, like crediting your choreographers, allowing choreographers to credit ESPN to on their resumes, because that is huge. Using the same music that each team originally performed with, keeping that creative integrity. And set with not just the choreography, but the music, ⁓ the idea, the narrative. I just want it to stay in the hands of the people who created each piece. And I worry that because we see this with UDA on ESPN, I worry that that's going to happen where we're going to lose all of that creative sauce. Because if you watch UDA, On varsity TV. Now, this is not a sponsorship. This is not an endorsement either. If you watch UDA on varsity TV, it is very exciting to watch. It's very exciting to watch the creative, the creative ideas from each choreographer, the teams, watch the wide angles, watch, you know, all of that fun stuff. Then as soon as it gets onto ESPN, we lose the music. They are not announcing choreographers who are choreographing each routine. And there's just, you know, wider conversations that should be had around that. And I find it very interesting that. It's IDL that is surfacing this conversation, but this has been going on for years with UDA and no one has talked about it and no one wants to talk about it because you can't just be selective on who you're calling out. Don't just call out one. This has been a conversation for years. Call them all out at this point. Since May in 2026, season opener IDL has generated more than 650 million views and impressions, highlighting the league's rapid global growth. With three sold out events in New York, Vancouver and Sydney already completed, IDL enters the second half of the season with teams preparing for the final regular season events and championship finale. Dance already has one of the most passionate fan bases in the world, said Connor Lim, CEO and co-founder of IDL. They watch, they share, they show up, and the engagement on social proves that. This agreement provides a chance to show a broader sports audience that dance is both an art form and a legitimate sport on a global scale. Before we get into ⁓ Connor Lim's post, ⁓ Let's listen to this post from Jason. Now, Jason is also another person that is very vocal on social media. And ⁓ someone who has, I guess I would say, speaking up against IDL. I'm not sure. I don't know. It's hard to read. ⁓ but here's a posting, and I think this is very valid. And I don't I know that there is a larger community that has these same thoughts surrounding it. And again, I just want to say by me sharing this and listening to this, this is not me endorsing what Jason is saying. This is not me saying I agree with what he has to say. This is me saying I know that what he is about to say is a wider conversation that many people are having that listening to him is going to be easier than me yapping about it for another seven minutes and fifty-eight seconds. If you're not familiar with Kalchi and Polymarkets, you should be because there's a lot of fraudulent things going on here. That's besides the point. But ⁓ Now, listen, if you've been listening to me cover IDL, you know I brought up sports betting and I said I would do it. I would do it. I would do it. I would do it. Right? Like some people's sports bet on the Cowboys and ⁓ the Raiders. I want a sports bet and make my hundred bucks from Brotherhood. No, I'm just kidding. ⁓ now that is something that I did bring up because I was in the conversation about I think it was like Love Island and people were betting. And I was like, I was thinking about doing it for Love Island. Thank God I didn't. I would have lost so much money. But then I was like, maybe IDL should do some sports betting. I feel like that would be pretty fun. I think with sports betting, especially with IDL, I will say, I think that there would be more money made from people's sports betting than the athletes would receive. I hate to say it, but I also don't know what a contract looks like from an IDL athlete. So that's another thing that We are just waiting to hear about. ⁓ but I feel like there would be people making more money than the athletes by sports betting, people who are not even involved in IDL, and that is a scary thought. Does this now open the door for dance to become a part of this sort of polymarket sports betting ecosystem that is not going to benefit the dancers at all? but that's a whole nother thing. Will the community component of these events slowly fade out. If you're not familiar with IDL, they have a community component to the competition where community This is a very interesting conversation about the community component because if we've already noticed that the community component has already faded out from YouTube. They only, I believe they stream it on Twitch now. I'm pretty sure. Please correct me if I'm wrong in the comments, but we've already seen the community component fade out from YouTube. So that's an interesting point if we would see the community component fade out. I don't think we will. And here's what I will say. Reason why I don't think we will see the community component fade out, because the community component is what is going to draw in a lot of spectators to watch the event. There is going to be more people. If I have 10 community teams, and each of those community teams has 30 plus athletes, that's 300 people. At least one person is going to show up to support. So for that reason, I don't see that community component fading out unless there becomes a point where the fan base is big enough where they can make a stop in Seoul or they can make a stop in Vancouver. And people just want to watch the pro teams. Unfortunately, I don't think we're there yet. I don't think they would be having sold out shows if we were. I don't think we'll see the community component fade out anytime soon. That's just my own opinion. Again, it's just going to draw on spectators to buy tickets for the event. As this continues to grow and become more commercialized, will that community component fade out? ⁓ I don't know. The plot lines are going to now get plottier. If if you don't already suspect that there's plot. I don't understand this point. So hopefully someone's Where you know they they are trying to get views and the way that you do that is by partially having a sort of plot line to go off of, is my suspicion. How will What kind of plot lines? I feel like the biggest plot lines that we would see that people would probably want to that anyone would probably want to engage with is like Athlete trades. Like I feel like that would be very interesting to see. But I don't quite understand what that means. But then that means like if you want athlete trades, an athlete has to be offered much more money. And I don't think it's Brotherhood offering the money. I think it's IDL offering the money. So I don't know. That's just an interesting point. I think this is really, really key. I had somebody message me about this that ESPN has not always had the most favorable coverage when it comes to certain things that have happened inside of the sports that they're underneath their umbrella. So, you know, they're gonna want to get as many views as possible. So they may not cover dance in the most favorable way. Point blank, period. Limited Another thing to remember about this conversation as we're having it is that this is ESPN too. This is not ESPN yet. So this is not like ESPN, right? This is ESPN two. Someone please explain to me how to get ESPN two so I could watch this. I went to go sign up. I was on Hulu. I signed up for the Disney Plus package. I signed up for the the ESPN Plus package. I signed up for the ⁓ 10 extra sports package. I signed up I signed up for four different packages. My IDL ⁓ stream that was supposed to be yesterday still wasn't working or two days ago. Still wasn't working. So Can someone please explain it to me? I'm like, does it only go live once? Is there no playback? You know, we don't want to blow this out of proportion too too much. This is very limited coverage, the media rights, on ESPN too. In my mind, this is a trial run or a test run ⁓ to see if you know the IDL will, you know, do well on a larger platform, but it gives ESPN the first mover advantage if they decide to scale even further. So if it does really well. And people start watching it on these different platforms, then ESPN is going to be able to go to IDL and say, hey, look, we already have this initial contract. What if we expand it to be a little bit more broad? So again, just some thoughts. Let me know in the comment section what you think. I think the one thing that would just throw me for a loop is if ⁓ ESPN gets any creative control at all in the process of this partnership. That's something that really worries me. So ⁓ interesting. Conversations to have. I think all of these points are ones that I have read very widely across many ⁓ platforms. Let's listen to Connor Lim. Now, Connor Lim shares his ⁓ thoughts about ESBN, the contract, and what that means for IDL. ⁓ personally, ⁓ you know, as a dancer myself, you know, starting when I was thirteen, this was something that we have always wanted to see, which is dance on such a large scale network, ⁓ on our terms. And that's an extremely important distinction because obviously dance has been on reality TV shows for a very long time, but not presented as a sport. And this is a huge deal because we are controlling all of the creative. I don't like that line. Dance has been put on reality TV many, many times, but not as a sport. So I I worry that it's gonna get too entertainment, not sports enough for me. All of the ⁓ sporting aspects and the way that the dancers are represented so we can actually represent each of the teams the way that they want to be represented and the way that we ⁓ believe dance should be represented as a sport on a global scale. So not only is this on national television in the US but internationally as well as you guys have here. ⁓ so we're very happy with this deal and are looking forward to how we expand this ⁓ into twenty twenty seven beyond. I wanna see some details of that deal. I'm not gonna lie. I would love to see some details Of that deal. Wow. So what do you guys think about this ESPN IDL contract? Do we feel like it's gonna be good for the sport and for the art of dance? Do we feel like it's gonna completely remove the creative integrity from all of these dancers and artists that are putting themselves out there in such a vulnerable space? So I'm very curious of what your guys' thoughts are. Let me know down in the comments. ⁓ join me tonight. It's gonna be No Counts Given Live. We're gonna be talking about Jam Republic. And then join me every Tuesday and Thursday for the month of August after that as we are looking more into these teams at the IDL and kind of ⁓ seeing what we're going to expect here in the LA stop. So hope you guys have a great rest of your Thursday. I'll see you guys this evening for No Counts Given Live. And that is our show for today. Before you go, make sure you head over to www.nocountsgiven.com. For all things dance-related news, updates, interviews, and industry conversations. While you're there, subscribe to our newsletter so you can be the first to know what's happening in the dance world. From new episodes to hot topics, routine highlights, and everything No Counts Given is covering next. Thank you so much for listening, for watching, and for being part of this community. We'll see you next week for another episode of the No Counts Given podcast with Kyle Rush.