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Hi everyone, thanks for next episode of McGeagan Times.
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On this episode, we have two world-class composers and producers.
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We have the multi-talented Mark Batsman and Chris Hambler, who are the powerhouse duo behind HBO's critic choice winning documentary, the Alabama Solution, which premiered at Sundance and is now streaming on HBO Max.
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Mark is a six-time Grammy winner with over 132 million albums sold, working with Eminem, Beyonce, Joe-Z, Nas 50 Cent, Alicia Kids, Yo-Yo Ma and Dave Matthew's band, with credits including American Hustle, I, Tonya, Spider-Man 2, Empire, and Godfather of Harlem.
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Chris is a composer, producer of Brian Wheat Sang and American Saga, The Equalizer 2, Shots Fired, David Makes Man, Infinite, and Rob Pete.
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Plus work with Mary J.
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Blige, Nipsey Hustle with Cleafa, and BJ the Chicago Kid.
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His song also on the come-up opens every power series.
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Together they have both scored Stars Power Book 4, Force, The LA Lore Reboot Pilot, and One Person One Vote.
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Welcome to both the Multitalented Mark and Chris, and thanks for coming on the podcast.
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Thanks for having us, Nate.
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Thanks for having us, Nathan.
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You're welcome.
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Alright, let's jump straight into it.
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Take us both back individually and tell us about your backgrounds, where you grew up, and I guess how you initially got started into it.
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My name is Mark Vassen.
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I'm from Brooklyn, New York.
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I grew up in Bushwick Projects.
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My dad was a classical uh opera singer who uh sang community opera on the weekends and also uh mainly worked at the post office.
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My mom's played uh classical guitar.
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Um I grew up at the beginning, at the birth of hip hop, uh in the early 70s in New York.
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Uh during that time taking piano lessons.
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Uh myself and my brothers and sisters, we had all had classical piano lessons, and uh uh we were playing at Carnegie Hall by the time we were 12 and 13 years old.
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Um but also I was in a rap group and uh um I loved hip-hop music at the birth of hip hop.
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Um I my we my brothers and sisters had jobs in Harlem, so I would travel up to Harlem to see um the early uh hip-hop culture being born, some of the first big rap groups um that became legendary.
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Uh got a scholarship to play uh jazz piano at Howard University.
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I was a jazz pianist for their big band.
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From there I went on to uh uh be the pianist for the African American Culture Department at Smithsonian Museum, uh, where I had an 18 piece big band uh that played Duke Ellison music and and music of the 30s and 40s.
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Uh got out of school, got my first uh job as a programmer for Airbnb Rock Him, um toured with a lot of bands, uh uh got signed as a rapper, uh then later on went to tour with a lot of bands and then started to produce records after that.
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The first record I was serious about producing was uh NDRE's Acoustic Soul, which was dominated for seven Grammys, including Album of the Year, and then from that point I've been producing records and uh since and and lately over the last five or six years or so, scoring film and television with Chris.
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Incredible.
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I don't even know how to follow that.
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I'll dry.
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Yeah, okay, yeah.
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Um my name's Chris Hannibuck.
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Uh born in Delaware, Dover, Delaware, grew up in South Carolina, um, and split my time back and forth.
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Um, I was always a music lover, but I mean the most of my stuff as a kid was I did barbershop quartet stuff with my dad got me into that as a kid.
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Um, but I didn't get into really heavily playing instruments until I was in college, I was 20, when I picked up the guitar for the first time and then just became completely obsessed with it.
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Um, like all day, every day.
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That's all I did.
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And then within a couple years, I was playing gigs and making a living off the guitar and within uh two years, and then um a year and a half or so after that, um after my regular college, um, got it, you know, got my degree, and then I got a scholarship to go to a music school here in LA.
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So I left South Carolina and moved out here, lived in Hollywood, did that whole thing, and then got my first gig uh scoring um a commercial for the NBA.
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I met somebody at a party, and the guy was like, can you make can you score?
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And I was like, sure.
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And so I uh I borrowed my roommate's laptop and I made the beat.
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Um it was like the first thing that I'd ever made on a laptop, and I I put it together, competed against all the other people, and I won the game.
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And so that was my first thing that I ever did.
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And then um then I worked on this, worked on some shows on NBC and things like that, and then um got back into performing for a while, and um, and then took a crack at doing artist stuff, you know, 15 years ago, working with other artists and and then um and different television shows for Fox and and things like that, and movies like Equalizer and all you know, all the things that you mentioned.
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And then met Mark through a mutual friend, and um, he put me on my first major release uh with um Anthony Hamilton.
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Um and you know, played guitar and mixed on that, and then that opened up a lot of doors for me.
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And you know, I was able to then use that um that Mark put me on for.
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And and another music supervisor friend named Jabari Ali put me on some, you know, because of that, I was then able to work with BJ the Chicago kid and signed a deal with Fox to write the theme song for Shots Fired and a bunch of other talks for that.
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And then, you know, it just kind of started rolling um with lots of ups and downs in between as the industry goes.
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But I mean, that's yeah, I'd say that's that's that's the gist of it.
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That's incredible.
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Thank you for both sharing that.
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It's it's remarkable.
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Um, tell me about how both your working relationship and how you collaborate is how how does that um, I guess how it's a dynamic?
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Well, myself and Chris, we we both have uh specialties that complement each other very well.
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Um, I'm a pianist first by nature, um, pianist and and and and and with a kind of hip hop background, also a string and horn arranger, uh, which is my forte.
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Um Chris can do all those things well.
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He's a fantastic guitarist, also engineer, um, and an amazing programmer and uh like a sonic wizard, a sonic genius uh with soundscapes.
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And uh um he together we compliment each other really well.
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Like what I whatever I feel like I'm stuck on, he can do.
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I I could play a little guitar, but I can't play guitar nowhere.
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It's it's uh it's as good as he does.
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And uh we we we we bounce back and forth on different things when we're working on a score.
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We watch a scene and we we talk about how you know the scene could be complimented, uh who could who could be the best person to lead that scene and who could be the first person to follow.
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And uh we come to work with no ego.
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Uh uh, we come just as to comp to to compliment each other, to compliment the scene, to compliment the director, and to get to be the best possible work.
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Um and uh we've been doing it for a while now.
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And uh we uh every project we've worked on, it's been uh a great collaboration.
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We've been successful with our projects.
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We just uh finished on three years of scoring uh uh the one of the top shows for black and light television in America uh called Power Force, uh, which is on stars.
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And our latest project is we scored the documentary uh uh Alabama Solution for HBO.
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Wonderful.
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Thank you for sharing.
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Tell me about the Alabama Solution, the background behind it, and I guess it's got a really strong narrative and you know, intense background behind it.
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Um, yeah, talk to me about that.
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So, Alabama Solution is a documentary um that focuses on the Department of Corrections in Alabama and um and the atrocities that are going on, the murders and the um enslavement and uh you know the like disappearing of individuals.
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Um it's made what what separates it from, you know, there's been other documentaries on the criminal justice system here in the US, but this one is uh mainly filmed by the incarcerated men on contraband cell phones, which makes it incredibly raw.
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The footage is undeniable, right?
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I mean, and to see it like that, as if you you know, like you are there with these men as they're um going through what what they're going through, um, is just it's heartbreaking and yet inspiring at the same time because the main characters, kinetic and melvin, are just their heroes and putting their lives on the line by telling these stories.
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Uh so it's uh it's a really incredible piece of piece of art, in my opinion.
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I mean, the like Andrew Jericho and and Charlotte Kaufman, the directors and producers, I mean, they they put together a really incredible um documentary, and we're really lucky to be a part of it.
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I mean, you know, it's the most meaningful project that I've been a part of.
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It's a legacy project.
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You know, and my you don't get to be a part of many things like that, I think, in your career.
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I mean, and and we've been lucky.
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Mark's been a part of many legacy projects that he can hang on the wall.
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And this one, you know, from it for me is one of is one of those projects.
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Yeah, thanks, Sarah.
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You should both be proud.
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Um, how emotional and confronting was it?
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This project was extremely emotional.
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I mean, from the first point, uh uh we work with a supervisor named Sue Jacobs.
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Um, I've done a lot of films with her, and when she sent over the footage, um, it was shocking um the atrocities um that bypassed Guantanamo Bay.
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What we know about Guantanamo Bay.
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I mean, what we've seen about Guantanamo Bay when we saw the documentary, that footage was worse.
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And this is going on right here in America where reporters are not allowed um to see.
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So um the fact that the men who were incarcerated were able to uh use the cameras to shoot, you know, the fact that you know these murders were going on in there and that you know people could be killed at will or disappeared at will for not following uh these uh horrible directives, that was an initial shock.
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Um so when I first watched the film, it it took a lot out of me.
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You know, I was stunned, but also angry.
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Um also angry at wanting to uh participate in uh whatever way we could lend our voices to uh uh make any kind of changes or at least let the story be heard.
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And I think that was the main thing uh from these heroes that emerged from the film, like Kinetic Justice and Melvin Ray.
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Um what we see from them is their desire to just be heard.
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It and my it's even how dangerous it is.
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Um in the film, you know, he's almost killed.
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Um, I guess really when you look at it more than once, uh, for speaking up and for fighting against the system.
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So it was a very emotional project.
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It was uh emotionally rewarding at the same time.
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Um I got to speak with uh Kinetic Justice directly and to see what kind of person he was amazed me to fill my body with energy.
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Uh he was so bright, so happy to be heard, so uh well-spoken, so uh um tapped into the good nature.
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He had fought so hard to remain his humanity, uh to keep his humanity under these inhumane conditions, that it was inspiring to me.
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So uh I was flooded with a series of emotions.
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And but now it's this this is action time, and uh I'm I'm glad to be pushing the ball forward, to be spreading this word all the way to Australia, uh, for people to see the Alabama Solution, watch the Alabama solution on HBO, to uh go on the Alabamasolution.com website and get involved and and and just to make sure that things don't happen, that these atrocities uh uh are ended once and for all, that uh you know America does not have the highest incarceration rates in the world, and uh we need less recidivism, and we we would like to see some rehabilitation uh um come out of this as well as just the punishment.
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Uh we we see other nations uh who have corrective systems uh where prisoners are being re rehabilitated, or in places like the Netherlands, with in the Netherlands, where they're actually closing prisons because they're doing so well at evolving uh uh people to get back into society.
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So, overall, uh my answer to you is that it was extremely emotional, uh, but emotionally rewarding at the same time.
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Significant, and you know, thank you for sharing that as well because um getting the message out there is half the battle, you know, and you're doing an incredible job, both of you doing that, so sensational.
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Um, all right, tell me about Starz Power Book and um the background behind that, and I guess that experience.
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We that is a so I have a friend that works at Lionsgate that um during covet that I met right before COVID, and uh through you know, through the whole shutdown, um we were talking more and more about this this project that stars at power.
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And when the opportunity came up for um for them to find new composers, um I took you know, I recommended Mark, um, because I you know honestly, I I didn't have the credits to to pull down uh you know a project like that.
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I'd done some work on the show and and you know on the theme, but um, and so I recommended Mark and Mark was like, oh, let's partner together.
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And so, you know, that and that it was that simple.
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It's like, okay.
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And so that's it.
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So, you know, we when we got the gig, um and you know, we it's been a lot of fun working on it.
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I mean, it's just action-packed.
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And to be a part of a brand like power is like really incredible because there's never a time in the world that like somebody's watching power all the time.
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Like there's never a time somebody's not watching it somewhere in the world.
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It's just that's it's like one point eight, 1.8 billion hours of stream time.
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You know, so it's a it's a really, really cool thing to be a part of.
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And you know, like they say, power never dies.
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So it's like spin-offs and you know, all of that.
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And you know, we're hoping to always be a part of it and always be in there, and and it's opened a lot of doors for us, and it, you know, and it birthed our scoring partnership, you know, as well.
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But you know, to be and to do it on something like that that's iconic, that is so culture, it's very culturally significant, you know.
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It's it's it's awesome.
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Tremendous.
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Um, tell me about both of you, obviously, being composers.
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What's something that the general public or people don't understand about being a composer?
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Um you want to answer that, Chris?
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Well, it's there's a couple things.
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One would be how team oriented it is.
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Like being a composer, in a lot of ways, it's like you have you're also a business owner.
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Like you have to run, you're a team runner.
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Like it's not just you're not just making music.
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It's like people don't hire you per se because of how great uh you are at making music.
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They're they're in a lot of ways, they're also hiring you, even more importantly, because they know you're gonna hit the deadlines, you're gonna make sure all the paperwork is done, you've got the team that can handle whatever needs to get handled, right?
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You're okay, you can collaborate with people.
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Um you take the phone calls on time and you show up to the meetings and you don't argue, you know, it's all of those types of things.
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Like if you could set the ego aside, I I think I think that's probably the biggest that that is the biggest thing that keeps you getting hired is being easy to work with.
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I think that's a lot of, I mean, unless you're John Williams, then I mean, you know, I mean John is just the genius, yeah.
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He's like the greatest ever.
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So like he and he's a nice guy.
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So it's uh but uh people don't also don't understand that um when we're working on television, when you see um uh a major motion picture, uh a movie is going to be you know hour, 30, 40 minutes to average movie, average hour and a half, 40 minutes to two hours.
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Uh when you're going in to do a score for a film, uh that might be a six-month process, uh uh or or even longer, depending on what the what the movie may be.
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Uh when you're working on television, you're kind of scoring uh a movie every 10 days.
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It's much faster.
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They do the workers coming at you faster.
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When they have a show, uh uh when you see a television series that has 10 episodes, it has a bunch of directors.
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It's not like one director making the whole thing because it has a lot of moving parts.
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They have to have different directors working all at the same time.
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So you have a bunch of directors making their own one-hour movie.
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Um so now you the pace is much quicker.
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Um, so that's with teams.
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That's why it's good for myself and Chris.
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It's teamwork, you know.
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Hey Chris, you take these scenes, you take that scene, he passes back.
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I take this scene, I take that scene, I'll take this meeting, you take that meeting.
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Um, and everything just runs like clockwork.
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I think it it for for myself, it's I love it um because it uh if it feeds into my own sense of meticulous nature of time, space, you know, getting things done on schedule.
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I I I enjoy that.
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You know, I'm actually an early riser, so I get up early, I'm working in odd hours in the morning.
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Um, but just the fact that we're delivering what is the equivalent of a movie, uh, a movie score every 10 days uh of original music um with a high level of efficiency.
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And uh and that maybe that's something that people don't don't know when they watch a series.
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And to put a number like a like 36, you we could do 36 minutes of music a week, like in five days, like 36 minutes of original music in five days, cut, recorded, mixed, bounced out, stems delivered.
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Right, it's it's it's a lot, and so that's yeah, so even when you see one person's name on a like a you know, music buy and it's one person, it's not one, it's not one person, yeah.
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Yeah, if you see music by Han Zemmer, if you go to Han Zemmer's building, there's this 10 or 15 composers sometimes working in the same building, uh where he's coming up with ideas and they're going and they they're passing the music around, and people are developing this, and this one's developing that, and it's a factory of music and not just like one person making all of the all of the music in the room by themselves.
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That's fascinating.
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Um tell me, what's the best compliment you've both individually received in your careers?
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I I have one from for myself personally working with Dr.
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Dre.
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The assistant who works for them, who's worked with him for many years, they've seen producers come and go of quality producers, you know, people who are different sense of organization certain times or whatever.
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And they they were they we were working with a producer, and that one of the producers missed the flight.
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And I don't think I've ever work-wise, I don't I've never missed a flight uh in my life, unless it was uh, you know, like an airline issue.
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But it's like I've never showed up late at the airport or whatever.
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And so I came in the room and somebody said uh uh the main guy who does all of the uh organization for everything, and they say, you know, the so-and-so didn't make it, so and then they make it.
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He said they and they said he should be like more like Mark.
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And he and he said to me, My favorite compliment, he said, Mark Batson, you can set your clock by that motherfucker.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:08.799
And that to me is one of my favorite compliments of all time.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:10.000
Awesome.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.680
I I mean, I don't even know because I don't like getting compliments.
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:22.240
So you're you're compounding uh already something that I have difficulty with.
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.759
I'm usually I just I deflect.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.519
I have no imposter syndrome now.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.240
I mean, I just literally have no idea.
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:33.599
I have no idea.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:40.799
I think it's I can't think of any big ones like that, like that, like really right off the top of my head.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.160
I think it's small ones that I get.
00:21:44.240 --> 00:22:15.680
I like to get I like to hear things from like last night I was at an event for the N HBO thing for for this movie, well, for all the documentaries, and a woman that I met waiting in line for the car for my car, we were talking, and she was like, Well, I Here and I was like, Oh, I'm one of the composers on um uh well, I was like, I worked on Alabama Solution, and she was like, Oh wow, that it's so such an incredible story, and and and then and she's like, What did you do on it?
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:26.480
And I was like, Well, I was one of the composers, and she just said, Wow, I mean, like, it was that simple, and that that you know what I mean?
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:40.480
That yeah, emotional of like, wow, like that was that's it, like that type of a reaction is like it like makes it, you know, make that's what makes me feel that made me feel really good because I was like, Oh, she got it.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:43.279
You know, like oh, she really appreciates it.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:45.039
Nice, yeah, amazing.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.240
So yeah, um, that's amazing.
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:54.000
Well, for both of you individually, who's the most talented artist you've ever worked with?
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:03.519
I I I I can't really answer that question because people are talented in different ways.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.000
And that's what we really can't answer.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:33.039
I mean, I I I I teach uh USC uh part-time right now, and I have a student that's in that's in my class now that is one of the most talented people that I've seen in a long time, as far as can do everything well, this who can sing, who can write, who's a great performer, who uh I feel like you know, who is a great keyboard, this great pianist, great songwriter, but also like a great viola player, you know, and a great guitarist.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:37.920
Who I see uh a future uh of the person scoring.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:44.640
So sometimes I see people that are well-rounded at everything uh um like that, and that that's been uh uh interesting.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:55.920
Um but each artist, like you know, I think Eminem as a rapper, I mean, like what he does is rap rap-wise, I don't think any human being has ever accomplished that.
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:04.960
So uh I would say he's most talented at what he does, but then what Nas is just as talented as Eminem, but in a totally different way.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:06.960
Um you know what I'm saying?
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:14.079
So um, you know, Beyonce is probably one of the most talented people on earth uh at what she does.
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:18.880
But Alicia Keys is just as talented as Beyoncé, but in a different way.
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:28.240
And Alicia Keyes is another one of those persons who can play instruments, who can sing, who can write, who can arrange and do all of those things.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:41.200
And but uh again, I might meet somebody who does something physical, you know, some foot physical with their bodies who uh um might be, you know, I I went to see this a group that dances in New York called the Urban Bushwomen.
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:48.240
And uh some of the dancers for them, or for the dancers for Alvinelli, are some of the most talented people I've ever seen in my life, you know.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:25:00.960
So I think the talent is uh relative uh to what whatever that situation is, and uh um so I wouldn't say most talented, I would say it's uh a bunch of people who are talented at different things.
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:05.519
Chris, I think I mean that was a perfect answer.
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:09.359
It was both complimentary and diplomatic.
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:20.720
Um I don't really have, I don't think yeah, I I can't say who is more talented, like who's the most talented.
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:29.440
I have my favorites uh artists that I've worked with over the years, and they they're and a lot of times they're not put in particularly like maybe the most famous.
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.839
Like I think my favorite rapper that I've ever worked with is definitely Faromanch.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:37.039
I just but you know, I he's a genius.
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.920
Also, I just love his, like I've always been a fan.
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:49.759
So I think a lot of times it's guys, it's it's artists that I've looked up to for a long time that then had the opportunity to maybe to finally work with them.
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.519
Um another I love Anthony Hamilton.
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:57.119
I grew up on like listening to Anthony Hamilton, I've been a fan of his forever.
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:00.240
So it's you know, it's a it's different artists like that.
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.119
Um, I mean, Mary's awesome too, right?
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:08.559
So um, but yeah, I think I have to kind of go with like what Mark's saying on that.
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:13.279
It's like everybody's different uh and and shines in different ways.
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:20.720
Yeah, so um, you know, and it's my I guess it's and it's my job to just stay out of the way of that, right?
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.359
Out of the way, try to stay in the room.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:27.359
Great answer.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:31.440
Um, what would you both want your legacy to be?
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:46.799
Well, Mike somebody asked recently, they said they asked Mike Tyson what you know something about his legacy, and then Mike Tyson said, uh, you know, what does it matter?
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:48.799
Because he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna be dead.
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:49.440
You know what I mean?
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:53.119
Like nobody's gonna remember me at all in X amount of years.
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:58.160
It's like we go, we look at now, we go, like, you know, what's the legacy of Joe Lewis?
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:03.200
You know, like I know who Joe Lewis is, but I can tell you a lot of people who don't.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:22.559
And then there was a time, you know, when he fought, you know, against Max Schmelling in World War II when you know he was the representative of America versus the Nazis' best boxer who had already beat him, and it's World War II is going on, and he fights Max Schmelling and destroys him in the ring.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:28.240
At that point, he's the most important boxer in history, and his legacy is the most important.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:34.160
Um, I think for me, it's more or less when I think of legacy, I think of what I'm doing now.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:41.279
Um, more or less how it will be remembered or or or or how it will be appreciated in the future.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:48.559
Um and I think legacy is more or less, as Chris described, this project, Alabama Solution, is a legacy project.
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.519
Uh it's something when I think of legacy, I think of things that are bigger than myself.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.000
I don't think of my own personal legacy.
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:10.880
I think of things that I've worked on or things that I've been a part of that have uh an accomplishment or importance to humanity or importance to the evolution of humanity, these these are the things that are of the most important to me.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.240
Yeah, and I'll add on to that.
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:22.079
I I'm exactly the same page when it comes to projects like Alabama Solutions, like just being a part of things that are much bigger than us.
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:27.039
That and that's a really rare thing where your output is not the final project, right?
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:31.759
You know, because like when we make a song, it's like the song that we make or the whatever, that's the final output.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:35.519
And here we're like this small part of this larger thing.
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:44.400
Um, that's not even just a piece of not even just the documentary, it's like men's lives, you know, are are attached and on the line.
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.759
And to be able to be a part of something that just tells that story is that's a legacy.
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:56.160
And that's something that you know you as a creative is like something, you know, that's everything that you could want as a creative.
00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.400
Personally, legacy.
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:05.839
I was watching this documentary uh that um about John Candy that's that just recently came out.
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:08.720
I can't remember what network is on, but it's great.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:28.319
And at the beginning of it, at his funeral, Dan Ackroyd um gives the eulogy, and the way that Dan Aykroyd eulogized John Candy was just like one of the most incredible things I think I've ever heard somebody say about somebody.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:36.160
And um I heard Cal Basie do the same thing in his book, um Um Music is My Mistress.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:39.680
He eulogizes somebody in a songwriter friend of his.
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:54.799
And I think that to all of that to be said, like I want the people that are closest to me to just I will I hope that like I'm remembered by the people closest to me as being kind and giving and forgiving and loving.
00:29:55.279 --> 00:30:00.160
Like if that I feel like that, and other than work, it's just like that.
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:07.920
If like the people closest to me feel that way about me, that I would just that that would I hope that's my my legacy.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.680
Impressive.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:16.160
If you were both eight and again, and you could change anything, could be personally or professionally, what would you change?
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:20.319
Change anything personally or professionally.
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:28.880
Um, I for me on a personal level, I think that uh a Chris is uh another inspiration to me, is a physical fitness fanatic.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.799
And um, I'm the opposite of a physical fitness fanatic.
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:50.799
So if I can change anything about myself, is to be uh more like Chris and more disciplined uh as far as exercise in the gym and not be as cerebral um because I'm I'm a studio, I could I could just be in my space and just create for X X amount of time.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:31:00.400
And uh and uh oh as time progresses, as you get older, uh you just want to spend more time outdoors, more time getting vitamin D.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:06.960
And uh um and uh and and more time just uh uh working out in the gym and enjoying that.
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:22.880
And that that's my um been one of the things that uh it's been a great inspiration with me with Chris is coming in with him and and and being inspired and talking about going to the gym and talking about working out and and talking about getting better on um and a person overall and a physical level.
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:28.480
How about a professional professionally?
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:29.039
Yeah.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:35.920
Um if I was to change something, um you know what?
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:49.200
I think as a creator, um just becoming more and I I hate to use this word, more corporate aware because um the finances pay for the creativity.
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.960
So I'm be over the years I've become better and better at that.
00:31:53.200 --> 00:32:05.519
Um better at better at forming my own company so that I could create the arts that I want to make on my on my own, or or you know, make the movies that I want to make, make the films.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:13.599
I'm learning no more now about uh uh how to get the actors and the directors that I need to work on the projects that I want.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:19.119
So it's more like learning the corporate side over the creative side and just getting better at that.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:26.319
Um I feel like I'm as all musicians are probably a little behind on that and uh and just catching up on that.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:27.599
Great.
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:28.400
Thanks for sharing.
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:38.319
I think professionally, I think I wish I I if I would change one thing, it would have been taking risks earlier on.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:47.359
Like there definitely were times that I I played it safe, maybe didn't make that phone call because I was worried that it wouldn't go through.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.200
Now in retrospect, now it's like if I'd have made the if I'd have made the phone call, it would have happened.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.559
You know, though I feel like that type of stuff professionally.
00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:09.759
I I just wasn't I just didn't have the confidence in my ability to at times when I and and now looking back going, I definitely could have done that.
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:12.319
I could I should have should have made that call.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:23.680
Yep.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:26.240
You know, so uh I I hear you on that.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:27.119
Right, yeah.
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.079
It's and being out and about and doing those types of things.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:34.559
Early on, I was early in my career, I was just wanted to be great at it.
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:38.640
I just wanted to be good, I wanted to get better at all the different types of crafts.
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:47.119
And one of the crafts that you have to be really great at is in is being out, like being around people, being with you know, because networking is so important in the industry.
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:51.119
And I early on, I was so just like, oh, if I'm great, people will notice.
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.000
But it's like, well, then you know, not if you're by yourself all the time.
00:33:54.160 --> 00:34:00.559
But you know, if nobody ever sees or hears, you can have a hard drive full of incredible music, and right what good does it do?
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.359
So and so I and I and and the piggyback on all of that, I wish I'd have released more music.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:11.760
Like I wish I would have just released more of my stuff and like things that I'd done with friends really early on.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:19.760
Um it would have been helpful, especially now as the as the uh industry has changed and it's so easy to put music out.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:21.360
It's like I should have been doing good.
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.199
I wish I'd have done that early on.
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.679
Personally, hmm.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:34.239
I mean, I'm I'm really happy with my life.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:48.719
I I like I think that one thing that I've done in my in my life is that I've probably the most honest answer to that would be I've probably drank too much, I've drank too much alcohol in my life.
00:34:49.440 --> 00:35:07.119
Like I just I that's the that has been at different times in my life a major brain and time just sucked life and time and energy when it when there when there's no need, there's never was no need for it.
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:18.000
So I think that personally that would be something that you know you can't change all you can't change that type of stuff, but I like you know, but I that's something that I would say.
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.039
Probably that's probably the most personal answer that I could get to that.
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:30.880
I I used to say it like that so sometimes, Chris Chris, but I think about records I made with like Dave Matthews in the woods of Virginia, yeah.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:39.199
Like, you know, they break out the you know, the blantons with the horse on the top, and then we start writing songs, you know.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:43.199
Yeah I I could never, you know, give that.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:44.239
You know what I mean?
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:48.960
Like it is if there's a social aspect to creativity, especially when you're writing songs.
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:53.280
Again, we're all older now, so we can't drink like we used to drink, right?
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.800
Um, but at those in those particular days, yes.
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:03.039
Um, I have my shared shots, and I I don't think I regret any of them during the creative process.
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:04.559
Yes, that's the thing.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:10.400
I separate those two things between the creative process and the non-creative drinking.
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:14.400
I get it.
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:19.599
Sometimes when you're in the studio every day, that that that that starts to blur together, right?
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:21.920
Like, yeah.
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:25.519
Great answers, great, great insights.
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:30.159
Um, and you know, thank you for sharing being so honest and vulnerable with the answers too and honest.
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.320
Um Mark and Chris, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:35.039
I do appreciate it.
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:35.920
I have an incredible time.
00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:03.680
Hi everyone, thanks for next episode of McGeagan Times.
00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:07.120
On this episode, we have two world-class composers and producers.
00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:20.640
We have the multi-talented Mark Batsman and Chris Hambler, who are the powerhouse duo behind HBO's critic choice winning documentary, the Alabama Solution, which premiered at Sundance and is now streaming on HBO Max.
00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:39.280
Mark is a six-time Grammy winner with over 132 million albums sold, working with Eminem, Beyonce, Joe-Z, Nas 50 Cent, Alicia Kids, Yo-Yo Ma and Dave Matthew's band, with credits including American Hustle, I, Tonya, Spider-Man 2, Empire, and Godfather of Harlem.
00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:50.079
Chris is a composer, producer of Brian Wheat Sang and American Saga, The Equalizer 2, Shots Fired, David Makes Man, Infinite, and Rob Pete.
00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:51.520
Plus work with Mary J.
00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:55.679
Blige, Nipsey Hustle with Cleafa, and BJ the Chicago Kid.
00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:59.759
His song also on the come-up opens every power series.
00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:07.920
Together they have both scored Stars Power Book 4, Force, The LA Lore Reboot Pilot, and One Person One Vote.
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:12.079
Welcome to both the Multitalented Mark and Chris, and thanks for coming on the podcast.
00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:13.599
Thanks for having us, Nate.
00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:14.560
Thanks for having us, Nathan.
00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:15.920
You're welcome.
00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:17.840
Alright, let's jump straight into it.
00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:25.680
Take us both back individually and tell us about your backgrounds, where you grew up, and I guess how you initially got started into it.
00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:28.719
My name is Mark Vassen.
00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:30.000
I'm from Brooklyn, New York.
00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:32.239
I grew up in Bushwick Projects.
00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:42.159
My dad was a classical uh opera singer who uh sang community opera on the weekends and also uh mainly worked at the post office.
00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.040
My mom's played uh classical guitar.
00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:51.519
Um I grew up at the beginning, at the birth of hip hop, uh in the early 70s in New York.
00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:54.400
Uh during that time taking piano lessons.
00:01:54.560 --> 00:02:02.959
Uh myself and my brothers and sisters, we had all had classical piano lessons, and uh uh we were playing at Carnegie Hall by the time we were 12 and 13 years old.
00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:09.520
Um but also I was in a rap group and uh um I loved hip-hop music at the birth of hip hop.
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:23.439
Um I my we my brothers and sisters had jobs in Harlem, so I would travel up to Harlem to see um the early uh hip-hop culture being born, some of the first big rap groups um that became legendary.
00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.400
Uh got a scholarship to play uh jazz piano at Howard University.
00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:30.479
I was a jazz pianist for their big band.
00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:46.560
From there I went on to uh uh be the pianist for the African American Culture Department at Smithsonian Museum, uh, where I had an 18 piece big band uh that played Duke Ellison music and and music of the 30s and 40s.
00:02:46.800 --> 00:03:05.680
Uh got out of school, got my first uh job as a programmer for Airbnb Rock Him, um toured with a lot of bands, uh uh got signed as a rapper, uh then later on went to tour with a lot of bands and then started to produce records after that.
00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:25.120
The first record I was serious about producing was uh NDRE's Acoustic Soul, which was dominated for seven Grammys, including Album of the Year, and then from that point I've been producing records and uh since and and lately over the last five or six years or so, scoring film and television with Chris.
00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:27.039
Incredible.
00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:29.759
I don't even know how to follow that.
00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:34.400
I'll dry.
00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:35.840
Yeah, okay, yeah.
00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.560
Um my name's Chris Hannibuck.
00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:45.680
Uh born in Delaware, Dover, Delaware, grew up in South Carolina, um, and split my time back and forth.
00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:55.280
Um, I was always a music lover, but I mean the most of my stuff as a kid was I did barbershop quartet stuff with my dad got me into that as a kid.
00:03:55.360 --> 00:04:05.439
Um, but I didn't get into really heavily playing instruments until I was in college, I was 20, when I picked up the guitar for the first time and then just became completely obsessed with it.
00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:07.680
Um, like all day, every day.
00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:08.400
That's all I did.
00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:25.600
And then within a couple years, I was playing gigs and making a living off the guitar and within uh two years, and then um a year and a half or so after that, um after my regular college, um, got it, you know, got my degree, and then I got a scholarship to go to a music school here in LA.
00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:36.480
So I left South Carolina and moved out here, lived in Hollywood, did that whole thing, and then got my first gig uh scoring um a commercial for the NBA.
00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:40.480
I met somebody at a party, and the guy was like, can you make can you score?
00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:41.600
And I was like, sure.
00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:49.920
And so I uh I borrowed my roommate's laptop and I made the beat.
00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:58.079
Um it was like the first thing that I'd ever made on a laptop, and I I put it together, competed against all the other people, and I won the game.
00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.800
And so that was my first thing that I ever did.
00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:27.920
And then um then I worked on this, worked on some shows on NBC and things like that, and then um got back into performing for a while, and um, and then took a crack at doing artist stuff, you know, 15 years ago, working with other artists and and then um and different television shows for Fox and and things like that, and movies like Equalizer and all you know, all the things that you mentioned.
00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:37.759
And then met Mark through a mutual friend, and um, he put me on my first major release uh with um Anthony Hamilton.
00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:43.199
Um and you know, played guitar and mixed on that, and then that opened up a lot of doors for me.
00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:48.800
And you know, I was able to then use that um that Mark put me on for.
00:05:48.879 --> 00:06:01.920
And and another music supervisor friend named Jabari Ali put me on some, you know, because of that, I was then able to work with BJ the Chicago kid and signed a deal with Fox to write the theme song for Shots Fired and a bunch of other talks for that.
00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:08.480
And then, you know, it just kind of started rolling um with lots of ups and downs in between as the industry goes.
00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:12.800
But I mean, that's yeah, I'd say that's that's that's the gist of it.
00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:13.920
That's incredible.
00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.120
Thank you for both sharing that.
00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:16.319
It's it's remarkable.
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:24.800
Um, tell me about how both your working relationship and how you collaborate is how how does that um, I guess how it's a dynamic?
00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:30.959
Well, myself and Chris, we we both have uh specialties that complement each other very well.
00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:42.959
Um, I'm a pianist first by nature, um, pianist and and and and and with a kind of hip hop background, also a string and horn arranger, uh, which is my forte.
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:45.439
Um Chris can do all those things well.
00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:56.000
He's a fantastic guitarist, also engineer, um, and an amazing programmer and uh like a sonic wizard, a sonic genius uh with soundscapes.
00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:00.800
And uh um he together we compliment each other really well.
00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.079
Like what I whatever I feel like I'm stuck on, he can do.
00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:07.600
I I could play a little guitar, but I can't play guitar nowhere.
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:10.079
It's it's uh it's as good as he does.
00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:15.439
And uh we we we we bounce back and forth on different things when we're working on a score.
00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:24.639
We watch a scene and we we talk about how you know the scene could be complimented, uh who could who could be the best person to lead that scene and who could be the first person to follow.
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:27.519
And uh we come to work with no ego.
00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:36.399
Uh uh, we come just as to comp to to compliment each other, to compliment the scene, to compliment the director, and to get to be the best possible work.
00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:39.439
Um and uh we've been doing it for a while now.
00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:44.399
And uh we uh every project we've worked on, it's been uh a great collaboration.
00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:46.319
We've been successful with our projects.
00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:57.839
We just uh finished on three years of scoring uh uh the one of the top shows for black and light television in America uh called Power Force, uh, which is on stars.
00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:04.879
And our latest project is we scored the documentary uh uh Alabama Solution for HBO.
00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:06.399
Wonderful.
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:07.279
Thank you for sharing.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:15.920
Tell me about the Alabama Solution, the background behind it, and I guess it's got a really strong narrative and you know, intense background behind it.
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:18.480
Um, yeah, talk to me about that.
00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:37.600
So, Alabama Solution is a documentary um that focuses on the Department of Corrections in Alabama and um and the atrocities that are going on, the murders and the um enslavement and uh you know the like disappearing of individuals.
00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:55.840
Um it's made what what separates it from, you know, there's been other documentaries on the criminal justice system here in the US, but this one is uh mainly filmed by the incarcerated men on contraband cell phones, which makes it incredibly raw.
00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:58.320
The footage is undeniable, right?
00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:21.840
I mean, and to see it like that, as if you you know, like you are there with these men as they're um going through what what they're going through, um, is just it's heartbreaking and yet inspiring at the same time because the main characters, kinetic and melvin, are just their heroes and putting their lives on the line by telling these stories.
00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.879
Uh so it's uh it's a really incredible piece of piece of art, in my opinion.
00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:39.360
I mean, the like Andrew Jericho and and Charlotte Kaufman, the directors and producers, I mean, they they put together a really incredible um documentary, and we're really lucky to be a part of it.
00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.879
I mean, you know, it's the most meaningful project that I've been a part of.
00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:44.240
It's a legacy project.
00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:50.000
You know, and my you don't get to be a part of many things like that, I think, in your career.
00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:51.840
I mean, and and we've been lucky.
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:55.840
Mark's been a part of many legacy projects that he can hang on the wall.
00:09:55.919 --> 00:10:00.399
And this one, you know, from it for me is one of is one of those projects.
00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:01.919
Yeah, thanks, Sarah.
00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:03.120
You should both be proud.
00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:06.159
Um, how emotional and confronting was it?
00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:10.960
This project was extremely emotional.
00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:16.720
I mean, from the first point, uh uh we work with a supervisor named Sue Jacobs.
00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:28.639
Um, I've done a lot of films with her, and when she sent over the footage, um, it was shocking um the atrocities um that bypassed Guantanamo Bay.
00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:30.559
What we know about Guantanamo Bay.
00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:37.840
I mean, what we've seen about Guantanamo Bay when we saw the documentary, that footage was worse.
00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:44.080
And this is going on right here in America where reporters are not allowed um to see.
00:10:44.240 --> 00:11:02.000
So um the fact that the men who were incarcerated were able to uh use the cameras to shoot, you know, the fact that you know these murders were going on in there and that you know people could be killed at will or disappeared at will for not following uh these uh horrible directives, that was an initial shock.
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:06.240
Um so when I first watched the film, it it took a lot out of me.
00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:08.879
You know, I was stunned, but also angry.
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:19.679
Um also angry at wanting to uh participate in uh whatever way we could lend our voices to uh uh make any kind of changes or at least let the story be heard.
00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:26.639
And I think that was the main thing uh from these heroes that emerged from the film, like Kinetic Justice and Melvin Ray.
00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:30.559
Um what we see from them is their desire to just be heard.
00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:32.799
It and my it's even how dangerous it is.
00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:35.759
Um in the film, you know, he's almost killed.
00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:42.639
Um, I guess really when you look at it more than once, uh, for speaking up and for fighting against the system.
00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:45.039
So it was a very emotional project.
00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:48.080
It was uh emotionally rewarding at the same time.
00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:57.120
Um I got to speak with uh Kinetic Justice directly and to see what kind of person he was amazed me to fill my body with energy.
00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:06.559
Uh he was so bright, so happy to be heard, so uh well-spoken, so uh um tapped into the good nature.
00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:15.600
He had fought so hard to remain his humanity, uh to keep his humanity under these inhumane conditions, that it was inspiring to me.
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.799
So uh I was flooded with a series of emotions.
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:59.200
And but now it's this this is action time, and uh I'm I'm glad to be pushing the ball forward, to be spreading this word all the way to Australia, uh, for people to see the Alabama Solution, watch the Alabama solution on HBO, to uh go on the Alabamasolution.com website and get involved and and and just to make sure that things don't happen, that these atrocities uh uh are ended once and for all, that uh you know America does not have the highest incarceration rates in the world, and uh we need less recidivism, and we we would like to see some rehabilitation uh um come out of this as well as just the punishment.
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:19.279
Uh we we see other nations uh who have corrective systems uh where prisoners are being re rehabilitated, or in places like the Netherlands, with in the Netherlands, where they're actually closing prisons because they're doing so well at evolving uh uh people to get back into society.
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:27.200
So, overall, uh my answer to you is that it was extremely emotional, uh, but emotionally rewarding at the same time.
00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:37.279
Significant, and you know, thank you for sharing that as well because um getting the message out there is half the battle, you know, and you're doing an incredible job, both of you doing that, so sensational.
00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:45.759
Um, all right, tell me about Starz Power Book and um the background behind that, and I guess that experience.
00:13:47.759 --> 00:14:08.639
We that is a so I have a friend that works at Lionsgate that um during covet that I met right before COVID, and uh through you know, through the whole shutdown, um we were talking more and more about this this project that stars at power.
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:25.679
And when the opportunity came up for um for them to find new composers, um I took you know, I recommended Mark, um, because I you know honestly, I I didn't have the credits to to pull down uh you know a project like that.
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:35.759
I'd done some work on the show and and you know on the theme, but um, and so I recommended Mark and Mark was like, oh, let's partner together.
00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:38.879
And so, you know, that and that it was that simple.
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:39.840
It's like, okay.
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:40.879
And so that's it.
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.960
So, you know, we when we got the gig, um and you know, we it's been a lot of fun working on it.
00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:48.639
I mean, it's just action-packed.
00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:56.960
And to be a part of a brand like power is like really incredible because there's never a time in the world that like somebody's watching power all the time.
00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.840
Like there's never a time somebody's not watching it somewhere in the world.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:05.919
It's just that's it's like one point eight, 1.8 billion hours of stream time.
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:10.080
You know, so it's a it's a really, really cool thing to be a part of.
00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:11.919
And you know, like they say, power never dies.
00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.399
So it's like spin-offs and you know, all of that.
00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:24.879
And you know, we're hoping to always be a part of it and always be in there, and and it's opened a lot of doors for us, and it, you know, and it birthed our scoring partnership, you know, as well.
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:31.600
But you know, to be and to do it on something like that that's iconic, that is so culture, it's very culturally significant, you know.
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:33.039
It's it's it's awesome.
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:34.720
Tremendous.
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.559
Um, tell me about both of you, obviously, being composers.
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:43.039
What's something that the general public or people don't understand about being a composer?
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.559
Um you want to answer that, Chris?
00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:50.799
Well, it's there's a couple things.
00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:55.919
One would be how team oriented it is.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:00.080
Like being a composer, in a lot of ways, it's like you have you're also a business owner.
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:02.240
Like you have to run, you're a team runner.
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:05.360
Like it's not just you're not just making music.
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:11.200
It's like people don't hire you per se because of how great uh you are at making music.
00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:23.360
They're they're in a lot of ways, they're also hiring you, even more importantly, because they know you're gonna hit the deadlines, you're gonna make sure all the paperwork is done, you've got the team that can handle whatever needs to get handled, right?
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.840
You're okay, you can collaborate with people.
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:35.279
Um you take the phone calls on time and you show up to the meetings and you don't argue, you know, it's all of those types of things.
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:46.240
Like if you could set the ego aside, I I think I think that's probably the biggest that that is the biggest thing that keeps you getting hired is being easy to work with.
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:50.720
I think that's a lot of, I mean, unless you're John Williams, then I mean, you know, I mean John is just the genius, yeah.
00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:51.840
He's like the greatest ever.
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.639
So like he and he's a nice guy.
00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:17.279
So it's uh but uh people don't also don't understand that um when we're working on television, when you see um uh a major motion picture, uh a movie is going to be you know hour, 30, 40 minutes to average movie, average hour and a half, 40 minutes to two hours.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:27.759
Uh when you're going in to do a score for a film, uh that might be a six-month process, uh uh or or even longer, depending on what the what the movie may be.
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:34.880
Uh when you're working on television, you're kind of scoring uh a movie every 10 days.
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:36.400
It's much faster.
00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:38.640
They do the workers coming at you faster.
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:46.079
When they have a show, uh uh when you see a television series that has 10 episodes, it has a bunch of directors.
00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:51.440
It's not like one director making the whole thing because it has a lot of moving parts.
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.640
They have to have different directors working all at the same time.
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.720
So you have a bunch of directors making their own one-hour movie.
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.640
Um so now you the pace is much quicker.
00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:04.160
Um, so that's with teams.
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.799
That's why it's good for myself and Chris.
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:08.319
It's teamwork, you know.
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.599
Hey Chris, you take these scenes, you take that scene, he passes back.
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.920
I take this scene, I take that scene, I'll take this meeting, you take that meeting.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.240
Um, and everything just runs like clockwork.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:32.880
I think it it for for myself, it's I love it um because it uh if it feeds into my own sense of meticulous nature of time, space, you know, getting things done on schedule.
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:34.400
I I I enjoy that.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:39.680
You know, I'm actually an early riser, so I get up early, I'm working in odd hours in the morning.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:52.240
Um, but just the fact that we're delivering what is the equivalent of a movie, uh, a movie score every 10 days uh of original music um with a high level of efficiency.
00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:57.119
And uh and that maybe that's something that people don't don't know when they watch a series.
00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:12.799
And to put a number like a like 36, you we could do 36 minutes of music a week, like in five days, like 36 minutes of original music in five days, cut, recorded, mixed, bounced out, stems delivered.
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:25.680
Right, it's it's it's a lot, and so that's yeah, so even when you see one person's name on a like a you know, music buy and it's one person, it's not one, it's not one person, yeah.
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:50.079
Yeah, if you see music by Han Zemmer, if you go to Han Zemmer's building, there's this 10 or 15 composers sometimes working in the same building, uh where he's coming up with ideas and they're going and they they're passing the music around, and people are developing this, and this one's developing that, and it's a factory of music and not just like one person making all of the all of the music in the room by themselves.
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:52.160
That's fascinating.
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:58.480
Um tell me, what's the best compliment you've both individually received in your careers?
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:05.359
I I have one from for myself personally working with Dr.
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:05.839
Dre.
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:22.000
The assistant who works for them, who's worked with him for many years, they've seen producers come and go of quality producers, you know, people who are different sense of organization certain times or whatever.
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:29.039
And they they were they we were working with a producer, and that one of the producers missed the flight.
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:39.200
And I don't think I've ever work-wise, I don't I've never missed a flight uh in my life, unless it was uh, you know, like an airline issue.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:43.119
But it's like I've never showed up late at the airport or whatever.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:56.000
And so I came in the room and somebody said uh uh the main guy who does all of the uh organization for everything, and they say, you know, the so-and-so didn't make it, so and then they make it.
00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:58.480
He said they and they said he should be like more like Mark.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:05.359
And he and he said to me, My favorite compliment, he said, Mark Batson, you can set your clock by that motherfucker.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:08.799
And that to me is one of my favorite compliments of all time.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:10.000
Awesome.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.680
I I mean, I don't even know because I don't like getting compliments.
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:22.240
So you're you're compounding uh already something that I have difficulty with.
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.759
I'm usually I just I deflect.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.519
I have no imposter syndrome now.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.240
I mean, I just literally have no idea.
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:33.599
I have no idea.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:40.799
I think it's I can't think of any big ones like that, like that, like really right off the top of my head.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.160
I think it's small ones that I get.
00:21:44.240 --> 00:22:15.680
I like to get I like to hear things from like last night I was at an event for the N HBO thing for for this movie, well, for all the documentaries, and a woman that I met waiting in line for the car for my car, we were talking, and she was like, Well, I Here and I was like, Oh, I'm one of the composers on um uh well, I was like, I worked on Alabama Solution, and she was like, Oh wow, that it's so such an incredible story, and and and then and she's like, What did you do on it?
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:26.480
And I was like, Well, I was one of the composers, and she just said, Wow, I mean, like, it was that simple, and that that you know what I mean?
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:40.480
That yeah, emotional of like, wow, like that was that's it, like that type of a reaction is like it like makes it, you know, make that's what makes me feel that made me feel really good because I was like, Oh, she got it.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:43.279
You know, like oh, she really appreciates it.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:45.039
Nice, yeah, amazing.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.240
So yeah, um, that's amazing.
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:54.000
Well, for both of you individually, who's the most talented artist you've ever worked with?
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:03.519
I I I I can't really answer that question because people are talented in different ways.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.000
And that's what we really can't answer.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:33.039
I mean, I I I I teach uh USC uh part-time right now, and I have a student that's in that's in my class now that is one of the most talented people that I've seen in a long time, as far as can do everything well, this who can sing, who can write, who's a great performer, who uh I feel like you know, who is a great keyboard, this great pianist, great songwriter, but also like a great viola player, you know, and a great guitarist.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:37.920
Who I see uh a future uh of the person scoring.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:44.640
So sometimes I see people that are well-rounded at everything uh um like that, and that that's been uh uh interesting.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:55.920
Um but each artist, like you know, I think Eminem as a rapper, I mean, like what he does is rap rap-wise, I don't think any human being has ever accomplished that.
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:04.960
So uh I would say he's most talented at what he does, but then what Nas is just as talented as Eminem, but in a totally different way.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:06.960
Um you know what I'm saying?
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:14.079
So um, you know, Beyonce is probably one of the most talented people on earth uh at what she does.
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:18.880
But Alicia Keys is just as talented as Beyoncé, but in a different way.
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:28.240
And Alicia Keyes is another one of those persons who can play instruments, who can sing, who can write, who can arrange and do all of those things.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:41.200
And but uh again, I might meet somebody who does something physical, you know, some foot physical with their bodies who uh um might be, you know, I I went to see this a group that dances in New York called the Urban Bushwomen.
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:48.240
And uh some of the dancers for them, or for the dancers for Alvinelli, are some of the most talented people I've ever seen in my life, you know.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:25:00.960
So I think the talent is uh relative uh to what whatever that situation is, and uh um so I wouldn't say most talented, I would say it's uh a bunch of people who are talented at different things.
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:05.519
Chris, I think I mean that was a perfect answer.
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:09.359
It was both complimentary and diplomatic.
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:20.720
Um I don't really have, I don't think yeah, I I can't say who is more talented, like who's the most talented.
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:29.440
I have my favorites uh artists that I've worked with over the years, and they they're and a lot of times they're not put in particularly like maybe the most famous.
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.839
Like I think my favorite rapper that I've ever worked with is definitely Faromanch.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:37.039
I just but you know, I he's a genius.
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.920
Also, I just love his, like I've always been a fan.
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:49.759
So I think a lot of times it's guys, it's it's artists that I've looked up to for a long time that then had the opportunity to maybe to finally work with them.
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.519
Um another I love Anthony Hamilton.
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:57.119
I grew up on like listening to Anthony Hamilton, I've been a fan of his forever.
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:00.240
So it's you know, it's a it's different artists like that.
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.119
Um, I mean, Mary's awesome too, right?
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:08.559
So um, but yeah, I think I have to kind of go with like what Mark's saying on that.
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:13.279
It's like everybody's different uh and and shines in different ways.
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:20.720
Yeah, so um, you know, and it's my I guess it's and it's my job to just stay out of the way of that, right?
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.359
Out of the way, try to stay in the room.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:27.359
Great answer.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:31.440
Um, what would you both want your legacy to be?
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:46.799
Well, Mike somebody asked recently, they said they asked Mike Tyson what you know something about his legacy, and then Mike Tyson said, uh, you know, what does it matter?
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:48.799
Because he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna be dead.
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:49.440
You know what I mean?
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:53.119
Like nobody's gonna remember me at all in X amount of years.
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:58.160
It's like we go, we look at now, we go, like, you know, what's the legacy of Joe Lewis?
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:03.200
You know, like I know who Joe Lewis is, but I can tell you a lot of people who don't.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:22.559
And then there was a time, you know, when he fought, you know, against Max Schmelling in World War II when you know he was the representative of America versus the Nazis' best boxer who had already beat him, and it's World War II is going on, and he fights Max Schmelling and destroys him in the ring.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:28.240
At that point, he's the most important boxer in history, and his legacy is the most important.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:34.160
Um, I think for me, it's more or less when I think of legacy, I think of what I'm doing now.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:41.279
Um, more or less how it will be remembered or or or or how it will be appreciated in the future.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:48.559
Um and I think legacy is more or less, as Chris described, this project, Alabama Solution, is a legacy project.
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.519
Uh it's something when I think of legacy, I think of things that are bigger than myself.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.000
I don't think of my own personal legacy.
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:10.880
I think of things that I've worked on or things that I've been a part of that have uh an accomplishment or importance to humanity or importance to the evolution of humanity, these these are the things that are of the most important to me.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.240
Yeah, and I'll add on to that.
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:22.079
I I'm exactly the same page when it comes to projects like Alabama Solutions, like just being a part of things that are much bigger than us.
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:27.039
That and that's a really rare thing where your output is not the final project, right?
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:31.759
You know, because like when we make a song, it's like the song that we make or the whatever, that's the final output.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:35.519
And here we're like this small part of this larger thing.
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:44.400
Um, that's not even just a piece of not even just the documentary, it's like men's lives, you know, are are attached and on the line.
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.759
And to be able to be a part of something that just tells that story is that's a legacy.
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:56.160
And that's something that you know you as a creative is like something, you know, that's everything that you could want as a creative.
00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.400
Personally, legacy.
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:05.839
I was watching this documentary uh that um about John Candy that's that just recently came out.
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:08.720
I can't remember what network is on, but it's great.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:28.319
And at the beginning of it, at his funeral, Dan Ackroyd um gives the eulogy, and the way that Dan Aykroyd eulogized John Candy was just like one of the most incredible things I think I've ever heard somebody say about somebody.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:36.160
And um I heard Cal Basie do the same thing in his book, um Um Music is My Mistress.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:39.680
He eulogizes somebody in a songwriter friend of his.
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:54.799
And I think that to all of that to be said, like I want the people that are closest to me to just I will I hope that like I'm remembered by the people closest to me as being kind and giving and forgiving and loving.
00:29:55.279 --> 00:30:00.160
Like if that I feel like that, and other than work, it's just like that.
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:07.920
If like the people closest to me feel that way about me, that I would just that that would I hope that's my my legacy.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.680
Impressive.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:16.160
If you were both eight and again, and you could change anything, could be personally or professionally, what would you change?
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:20.319
Change anything personally or professionally.
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:28.880
Um, I for me on a personal level, I think that uh a Chris is uh another inspiration to me, is a physical fitness fanatic.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.799
And um, I'm the opposite of a physical fitness fanatic.
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:50.799
So if I can change anything about myself, is to be uh more like Chris and more disciplined uh as far as exercise in the gym and not be as cerebral um because I'm I'm a studio, I could I could just be in my space and just create for X X amount of time.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:31:00.400
And uh and uh oh as time progresses, as you get older, uh you just want to spend more time outdoors, more time getting vitamin D.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:06.960
And uh um and uh and and more time just uh uh working out in the gym and enjoying that.
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:22.880
And that that's my um been one of the things that uh it's been a great inspiration with me with Chris is coming in with him and and and being inspired and talking about going to the gym and talking about working out and and talking about getting better on um and a person overall and a physical level.
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:28.480
How about a professional professionally?
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:29.039
Yeah.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:35.920
Um if I was to change something, um you know what?
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:49.200
I think as a creator, um just becoming more and I I hate to use this word, more corporate aware because um the finances pay for the creativity.
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.960
So I'm be over the years I've become better and better at that.
00:31:53.200 --> 00:32:05.519
Um better at better at forming my own company so that I could create the arts that I want to make on my on my own, or or you know, make the movies that I want to make, make the films.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:13.599
I'm learning no more now about uh uh how to get the actors and the directors that I need to work on the projects that I want.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:19.119
So it's more like learning the corporate side over the creative side and just getting better at that.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:26.319
Um I feel like I'm as all musicians are probably a little behind on that and uh and just catching up on that.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:27.599
Great.
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:28.400
Thanks for sharing.
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:38.319
I think professionally, I think I wish I I if I would change one thing, it would have been taking risks earlier on.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:47.359
Like there definitely were times that I I played it safe, maybe didn't make that phone call because I was worried that it wouldn't go through.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.200
Now in retrospect, now it's like if I'd have made the if I'd have made the phone call, it would have happened.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:56.559
You know, though I feel like that type of stuff professionally.
00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:09.759
I I just wasn't I just didn't have the confidence in my ability to at times when I and and now looking back going, I definitely could have done that.
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:12.319
I could I should have should have made that call.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:23.680
Yep.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:26.240
You know, so uh I I hear you on that.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:27.119
Right, yeah.
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.079
It's and being out and about and doing those types of things.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:34.559
Early on, I was early in my career, I was just wanted to be great at it.
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:38.640
I just wanted to be good, I wanted to get better at all the different types of crafts.
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:47.119
And one of the crafts that you have to be really great at is in is being out, like being around people, being with you know, because networking is so important in the industry.
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:51.119
And I early on, I was so just like, oh, if I'm great, people will notice.
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.000
But it's like, well, then you know, not if you're by yourself all the time.
00:33:54.160 --> 00:34:00.559
But you know, if nobody ever sees or hears, you can have a hard drive full of incredible music, and right what good does it do?
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.359
So and so I and I and and the piggyback on all of that, I wish I'd have released more music.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:11.760
Like I wish I would have just released more of my stuff and like things that I'd done with friends really early on.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:19.760
Um it would have been helpful, especially now as the as the uh industry has changed and it's so easy to put music out.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:21.360
It's like I should have been doing good.
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.199
I wish I'd have done that early on.
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.679
Personally, hmm.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:34.239
I mean, I'm I'm really happy with my life.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:48.719
I I like I think that one thing that I've done in my in my life is that I've probably the most honest answer to that would be I've probably drank too much, I've drank too much alcohol in my life.
00:34:49.440 --> 00:35:07.119
Like I just I that's the that has been at different times in my life a major brain and time just sucked life and time and energy when it when there when there's no need, there's never was no need for it.
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:18.000
So I think that personally that would be something that you know you can't change all you can't change that type of stuff, but I like you know, but I that's something that I would say.
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.039
Probably that's probably the most personal answer that I could get to that.
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:30.880
I I used to say it like that so sometimes, Chris Chris, but I think about records I made with like Dave Matthews in the woods of Virginia, yeah.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:39.199
Like, you know, they break out the you know, the blantons with the horse on the top, and then we start writing songs, you know.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:43.199
Yeah I I could never, you know, give that.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:44.239
You know what I mean?
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:48.960
Like it is if there's a social aspect to creativity, especially when you're writing songs.
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:53.280
Again, we're all older now, so we can't drink like we used to drink, right?
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.800
Um, but at those in those particular days, yes.
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:03.039
Um, I have my shared shots, and I I don't think I regret any of them during the creative process.
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:04.559
Yes, that's the thing.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:10.400
I separate those two things between the creative process and the non-creative drinking.
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:14.400
I get it.
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:19.599
Sometimes when you're in the studio every day, that that that that starts to blur together, right?
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:21.920
Like, yeah.
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:25.519
Great answers, great, great insights.
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:30.159
Um, and you know, thank you for sharing being so honest and vulnerable with the answers too and honest.
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.320
Um Mark and Chris, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:35.039
I do appreciate it.
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:35.920
I have an incredible time.
