Richard Porter

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I'm Richard Porter and this is Neutral Zone.
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Hi Richard, welcome to Neutral Zone.
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Hi.
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Thanks for giving up your lunchtime on a Wednesday.
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It's my pleasure.
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In your beautiful new clinic.
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I'm glad you like it.
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It's your second time here.
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It is.
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We've only we've only met briefly, maybe twice.
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Yeah, at Manchester for the charity event.
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Yes, a lecture.
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And then your lecture was excellent.
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Thank you.
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I really enjoyed it.
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Thank you.
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Don't take it the wrong way.
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No, no.
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You never know if you what you're going to learn when you go to any sort of conference.
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I remember sitting there thinking, I I wish I had a pen and paper to take notes of what you were talking about.
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Really?
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Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
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Oh, thank you.
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Yeah.
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Big compliment.
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I think I was talking about habit stacking.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: You were talking about habit starting and and you know you had your stones and the bondability hierarchy, stuff we teach as well.
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But just the way you presented it was so nice and linear.
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Thank you.
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And and when you're doing education, I you know you've got to try and take away anxiety.
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I think the the flip side of education is when people try and give you anxiety, they try and give you FOMO, like look at what I can do, look at what I've got, look at what you haven't.
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And I thought your lecture was very much this is what I do, and this is where you can buy it from.
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And you could if you like this idea, you can take away and use it.
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Yeah.
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It's giving value.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.
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Oh, thank you.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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The clinic is gorgeous.
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Aaron Ross Powell The number of details.
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The living clay on the walls.
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Trevor Burrus Do you know again I can I and the circadian lighting.
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I there are a few things that I contributed to that.
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The architectural team and my business partner heel are the kings of detail.
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So I'm I'm swept along on the majesty of their the architectural design.
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Ying and Nick, who designed it, are architects are that's right.
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Last time I was here, you were choosing pebbles, or they were choosing pebbles.
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I would be pebble-free in my opinions.
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But they have chosen beautiful pebbles.
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Well, go and have a look at them.
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Yeah, it is lovely.
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It's a nice place to be.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.
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Yeah.
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Richard, one of the first questions I ask everyone is how much of your identity do you think is tied to being a dentist?
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I mean the answer is a lot.
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And but within within that role as a dentist, you've got different roles.
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So it might be patient provider, it might be practice principal, it might be educator, it might be staff mentor.
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And within that role as a dentist, I think you will have different bits that identify and resonate and make you feel like you're contributing more within that.
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If you work as much as I'm sure you do, I think I know you do, and and I tend to, it's foolish to say it's not part of your identity.
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It hasn't sort of formed a big part of your identity.
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And it is.
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And who I how I feel about myself, it is absolutely integral to that.
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So a big, big chunk of who I am is my professional life without doubt.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.
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Yeah, maybe.
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Who are you if you're not being that role, if you're not a dentist?
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Aaron Ross Powell So uh Cherno, I I'm not trying to restructure your question, but I guess it's what part of my job do I find most fulfilling?
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And my passion is to help people flourish.
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And the the place where we've curated that down the most is within the realm of dentistry.
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So seeing dentists who are already flourishing and helping them grow more to people who are struggling, people who are considering leaving the profession, um, and putting them in a position where they can they can choose a path that feels beautiful to walk down.
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That probably means more to me than anything.
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A lot of my career was, as you you probably know, was in a hospital.
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I just saw a lady from the from the hospital this morning, actually, uh, who is an NHS patient and can't get any help anywhere.
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And I just agreed to see her free of charge.
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And seeing patients like that who have had big cancerous sections and their quality of life is in the gutter, and you can build them back up.
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I I love that as well.
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I love and I I hope it's not indulgent.
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I hope it is.
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I'm trying to work out in my own head, it's not just because it's like really hard and low, look at me, I can do it.
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But it's actually you do actually get to see someone flourishing and get their life back.
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So it goes beyond the dentistry technical bit.
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Yeah, dentistry is a vessel, isn't it?
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It's like if you give someone an amazing smile or they're they're in pain, you take the pain away, it's a it's an incredible thing.
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If you if you look and there's evidence to back this up, if you look at somebody's circulating cortisol level, their stress hormone and you know their inflammatory status, and you do your beautiful work, Fran, and give them a better smile, you can measure their blood and you can measure their stress levels and the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal access, and it drops.
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They flourish more because of what we do.
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Powerful.
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For dentistry, it's amazing.
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Like people think that you think you're drilling and filling.
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You're not, you're really, really making a difference to someone's life.
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I like when somebody's terrified and then they actually come and like fall asleep in your lap.
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Aaron Powell Yeah.
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I like that.
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Do you?
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Yeah.
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That brings you satisfaction.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah.
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I just think you've you've managed to it's hard to make someone less anxious about anything.
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But then if they And I think you have to surrender as as a patient.
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And then if you've managed to do that you've made somebody trust you who was terrified.
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I think that's I agree with you.
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I think that's a big plus.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I mean that that's a segue to some of the things we were talking about before we came on camera, but because what you just said that I think is really important.
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It's you.
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It's not the profession, it's not your equipment.
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They've connected with you, and you have then put them in that state of dere relaxation.
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That's the magic.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And that's what the podcast's about.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Is it the people behind the drill, you know?
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, because dentists do get dehumanized a bit, don't they?
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, everyone hates us as well.
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And you get told you hate it.
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But I have this joke, a million people have heard it already, but you've probably had it too, is where you're you're at work and the next patient walks in, you've never seen them, and they look in and go, I hate the dentist.
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I'll do it on camera, I hate the dentist.
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And I would say, can you imagine going to Sainsbury's and you buy a loaf of bread and you go, I hate checkout stuff.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: You know, security come and kick you out.
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Whereas we take it on the chin.
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I'm so sorry.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, like you're on a train and they or they have posters everywhere now, don't they?
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Even on the bus, and it says we will not accept harassment of our staff.
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For sure.
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Or even in Space NK the other day, I saw it behind the checkout, and you think, who is mad in Space NK?
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Everyone's Junior, I was getting on the tube yesterday, and there was a lady who'd been sort of preaching very vocally outside the tube, and they shut Oxford Circus tube when the stairwell was absolutely full.
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And the chap was on at the bottom saying, Could you back up, please?
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And she started hitting people on the head with her banner.
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These people were just kicking randomly on just a banner that says be nice.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Be kind to everyone and you think, Welcome to London.
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Welcome to London.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: But it's interesting, friend, that you I'm sorry, this yeah, I know you're not Trevor Burrus You're interviewing me.
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Yeah, I am a little bit now.
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But that brings you that's the one thing you said.
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It brings you satisfaction to change someone's sort of emotional state.
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And that's obviously landing points with you.
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It's landing home as significant.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I think as well, when you've been in when you've done the job for a while and you've not you're always going to be challenged by certain clinical bits.
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But when you've got a grasp on the clinical, you almost the job is m much more of like a conveyor belt of of things.
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So you're almost looking for a wider meaning to what you're doing once you've got that bit sorted, I think.
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Aaron Ross Powell I completely agree.
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Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
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I completely everyone's looking for growth.
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And like when you're a dental student, you learn like Krebs cycle, which is a stupid thing to have on the curriculum, by the way.
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And you learn about the sphenoid bone.
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And in dentistry, if you ever see the sphenoid bone, you've you've gone too deep down that margin.
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But you you go through your growth, don't you?
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And you have to achieve your exams and then you do your foundation year and you achieve something.
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And the growth is always there.
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But you're right.
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When you reach a level clinically and you think, okay, this is not causing me anxiety now.
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I'm kind of I've got my systems.
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Yeah.
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Then you your mind does cast its uh net further out and you think, well, what what else can I grow?
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How can I grow?
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Yeah.
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That's a long-a long career.
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It can't just be all about drilling and fitting.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Do you know I think it's I think you know the human-to-human connection for me is easily the most important thing because you'll never you'll never tire of that.
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And I hope you never tire of it.
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And so it is helping the person.
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It is and I don't mean the teeth, I mean the person who happens to own the teeth or the mouth.
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It is that connection.
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And that will never get dull.
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You know, humans are fundamentally social creatures.
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Not just social creatures, but we're social creatures that we do not do well on our own.
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Like it's really not good for us.
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Loneliness and isolation is evolutionarily used to mean dead.
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Aaron Ross Powell And that is dentistry most of the time.
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Trevor Burrus Yeah.
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In a room like this big on your own, maybe a lot smaller in some London practices actually.
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Maybe with a nurse that you get on with, maybe with a nurse that doesn't get on with you.
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Trevor Burrus Yeah.
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And maybe a nurse is a stranger to you.
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And you're aligned.
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Trevor Burrus, And it changes every day.
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Yeah.
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No lateral light.
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And then you're just thinking with patients that hate you or are very nervous.
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We're really setting the profession correctly.
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But it can be very isolating.
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Trevor Burrus And you can then think I'm required to do to a given standard something I don't think I'm actually that good at.
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Like you know, if I'm talking about comfort with competence, I would say to any delegate, would you write your name on a piece of paper and have Fran watch you do it and she's got her camera on and 30 other dentists watching you, would you write your name on a piece of paper and they'll say, Yeah, I would do that.
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Okay, would you do Mo Lorendo with with 50 dentists watching you?
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You may not.
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And the only difference is you don't believe, you don't have the confidence in the outcome.
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Now, if you're doing that day in, day out on people, and particularly if you have that big sense of responsibility, that's a stress.
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So giving people comfort and confidence with their competencies is is really important.
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Because at least then you can take that anxiety away.
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I'm always wondering, you know, the I ask everyone, how often do you get Sunday night syndrome?
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Like who who starts thinking right.
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Sunday scaries.
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Yeah, Sunday scaries, that's a better name for it.
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Thanks.
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You can have that one.
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It's not mine.
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So I'm taking notes here again.
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I'm taking notes when I'm trying to speak.
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And uh Yeah, and and th they can creep in.
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They can creep in on Sunday morning.
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And you get people to open up and about it and they say, yeah, I do.
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I'm worried.
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I've definitely had that earlier on in the in in the career.
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Yeah, it's a horrible feeling.
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It's a horrible feeling thinking you're required to do something clinically and you're not entirely sure how.
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So there's doubt.
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Aaron Ross Powell And a horrible feeling that you've you've done all the degree and so you know on paper you've got it.
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That's your job then for the rest of your life if you're not going to change.
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And yet you're still nervous on a Sunday like going to school.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, and and we'll see if you agree with this.
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And you know, some of the other competences competencies I think people need are I'm not trying to drag our conversation to connection straight away, but if if I ask a group of dentists, put your hand up if you've met a patient you really, really don't like, maybe even hate, it's every dentist.
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And then I will say to them, and put your hand up if it was their teeth or their personality.
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You know, which and it's always personality.
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Aaron Ross Powell Oh, 100 percent.
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It's never the teeth.
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And you know, if there's a problem with the teeth, you can refer it.
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It can refer it to you, and you can refer it to a specialist or a friend, you can get help.
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But dealing with a a person.
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And I don't see that on the curriculum.
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I don't I don't see I don't see people being taught that.
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We had uh quite a big communications uh module.
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I I did my degree at Sheffield.
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Um and I think we were one of the first batches, I'm not sure what it's like now, but I remember being maybe it was useful and we didn't know we had it and others didn't, but um we'd be put in scenarios where one's the patient, one's the dentist opposite each other, like this.
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Yeah.
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And there'd be a script or someone you'd you'd be like, right, you're an angry patient, be angry at Fran.
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And you'd have to that's very hard.
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Or or this is a procedure they don't understand.
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Keep going.
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Yeah, okay.
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And I think that maybe is more was more helpful than I realised.
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Do you think it moved the needle then on your communication skills?
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Do you know what I don't think anything Well maybe maybe that's a big statement.
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I was gonna say I don't think anything prepares you till you're there.
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I agree.
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I agree.
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Yeah, I just I I I I think it's an infinite skill.
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And I think it's something that should be highlighted as foundational to the outcome of your career and how you feel about your job.
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I think it should be elevated to that status.
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I again I think that's what the ancient ancient philosophy and every philosophy since has taught us.
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It is your ability to see as well as you possibly can into the minds and hearts of the people you're dealing with and understand them.
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And if you can do that, you can you can at least have agency.
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You can at least connect if you choose to connect or withdraw if you want to withdraw.
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.919
But you have to understand the fundamentals of human thinking to be able to do that.
00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:16.799
I think so, like psychology and empathy together.
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:17.679
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:20.559
I mean, yeah, psychology is the big title.
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:23.360
Like why does a human think and feel how they think and feel?
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:24.960
Where does it come from?
00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:28.559
And then when you're dealing with the human mind, we have to work with models.
00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:30.799
It's infinite, and so you have to use a model.
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:32.480
And the models are pretty good.
00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:38.240
I mean, they're probably in impossibly naive for the vast complexity of humanity, but they work.
00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:38.639
Yeah.
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.639
They're reproducible, they're demonstrable, and they're very effective.
00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:44.559
And I think some of those models should be taught.
00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:48.320
And then once you look at the models, understand the skills you can use to deploy them.
00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:50.639
I mean, we I I do teach this.
00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:53.120
You know, it's one of the most enjoyable things to teach.
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:57.600
Aaron Ross Powell So your kind of working week now, Richard, is more teaching than clinical.
00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:01.759
Aaron Ross Powell It's a mixture because it was 50-50 until I left the NHS.
00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.039
I was a restorative consultant for you know the better part of 20 years.
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:13.039
And a lot of that was teaching embedded into that role, masters of it clinically, and then I'd probably have two days teaching, specifically just teaching.
00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:13.440
Okay.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:15.919
And then that has shifted a little bit.
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:24.720
But what we've done here, the the big thing we wanted in the center was to integrate live clinical encounters into the teaching.
00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:26.720
So there's a lot of crossover there now.
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:27.200
Yeah.
00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:44.559
And that means I can see a patient upstairs and I can do everything, including all the audio in crystal clear clarity and all of the clinical procedures, and that can be watched live on site, on a big cinema screen, or transmitted anywhere around the world.
00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:46.240
So it's trying to combine those two.
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:53.120
So when you talk about communication, like I would love you to pick your worst ever patient, put them in my chair, and let's let's have a discussion.
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:53.600
Uh-huh.
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:56.720
And then you can pick it apart afterwards and think, well, what's the real motivation here?
00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:57.519
Where's that coming from?
00:14:57.679 --> 00:14:59.759
What are those unspoken words?
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:02.000
What does that body language tell you?
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:04.960
You know, because you're because I'll just tell you now, and I'm not watching you for now.
00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:05.600
No, no, no.
00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:06.559
You can tell you are.
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.759
Your body is speaking all of the time.
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.240
Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, and nonverbal is massive, isn't it?
00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.279
It's it's so i it it definitely is.
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.120
I I'm just gonna do a quick qualifier.
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:21.600
People say it's it's it's it's body language first, then tone, and then words, and that's true.
00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:23.519
But that doesn't mean your words don't matter.
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:25.440
They're about seven percent of communication.
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:26.080
Okay.
00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:28.960
Unless you're just texting, then they become a hundred percent.
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.279
If it's just a letter, then it's a hundred percent.
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:37.120
But body language is it predates our evolution of language.
00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:43.519
So you and I had to be able to communicate nonverbally and survive as a species before we evolve language.
00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:46.799
So yeah, it's massively effective.
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:52.720
And it's I mean, the some of the studies are hilarious on predictive outcomes from body language tells.
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:55.120
Aaron Ross Powell I mean you see patients come in, don't you?
00:15:55.279 --> 00:16:00.320
And you Or you go out to I had a guy actually yesterday and uh he was squeezed in.
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:01.200
I know him quite well.
00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:03.679
I went out and I was like, oh.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:04.639
Hi, come in.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.799
And I I looked at him and I said, You're in pain, aren't you?
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:07.120
Yeah.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.279
He's like, you have no idea.
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:13.120
And you could see his eyes were just in pain.
00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:15.759
And um He didn't say anything.
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:16.240
Aaron Ross Powell No.
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:17.200
And didn't need to.
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:17.679
Yeah.
00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:20.000
Maybe because I know him already a little bit.
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:28.480
Well maybe I mean familiarity tells, like your subconscious mind is looking at familiarity amongst people you know and reading them, you know, far, far more effectively.
00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:32.159
But there are universal body language signals that we can pick up.
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.000
You can walk into a room and feel tension.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:34.320
Yeah.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.840
And you can see someone who's who's angry before they've even come near you.
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:47.120
You know, we are we're we're phenomenal threat detectors when we stop listening to words and we actually pay attention to our our what we're actually seeing, what our mind is seeing.
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.720
We're very, very good at it.
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.799
And we we can tell when someone is at ease, when someone's being honest.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:53.840
We're good at it.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:56.399
And that's the fundamentals of communication.
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:58.879
Like, do you teach this here then?
00:16:59.200 --> 00:16:59.279
Yeah.
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:00.480
Yeah.
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:01.759
How?
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:07.759
So it takes a while, but f first of all you have to understand there are skills.
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:09.039
There are skills.
00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:10.960
And the skills are pretty infinite.
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:14.559
Like you can you can develop the skills, like you can play the piano.
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:20.960
So I could play twinkle, twinkle, little star, or you can play lists piano concerto number two, Hungarian, whatever.
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:27.039
You know, you can go as far as you like with communication skills, and that's why I love it so much, because you're you never stop being a student.
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:27.599
Yeah.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:43.599
If you teach the fundamentals of human psychology, which we all have we all have, they're all the same, in almost everyone, with small variations that make us individual, unique people, then if you understand that, then you can deploy it.
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:53.519
So the philosophy behind it is, I would say to you, Fran, you are on a journey of self-discovery, and you will be until your last hour of life, and so am I.
00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:56.880
And you're never going to fully know yourself, and neither am I.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.599
We're going to find out about ourselves on this journey.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:03.680
But it is unbelievably connecting and engaging.
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:12.160
If I stop finding out about myself and I just ask you about your journey and prove to you I'm curious about how you are, how you're feeling.
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.960
So the fundamentals of communication are curiosity.
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:16.559
It starts with curiosity.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:25.279
And if you're my patient, I if I'm teaching this, I will demand, demand that you prove you're deeply curious about the person in front of you.
00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.960
And if you demand it, you'll see it because I'll be focused on you.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:31.680
And you uh let I'll expand one little thing.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:37.599
So when someone is stressed or feeling threatened, the blink rate will go up.
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:42.960
So let my fake blink rate go up when I start doing this during the interview, and you will know I'm slightly uncomfortable.
00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:47.599
The opposite with a blink rate dropping down isn't that you blink slower.
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:49.200
You blink slower when you're focused.
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:49.680
Yeah.
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:51.519
So I'm not analyzing you.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:52.240
Don't take it the wrong way.
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.880
And your blink rate has almost gone down to three a minute.
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.279
Like you'll really focus on this conversation.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.000
So you but your subconscious mind sees it.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:05.839
And all we will do occasionally is just say, like, your body language tells are always there.
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.160
Like, let me give your listeners a challenge.
00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:13.039
Look through your phone and look at your last selfie and see if in your selfie you do this.
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:13.519
Okay?
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:21.039
See if you've tilted your head to the left or the right and exposed your carotid artery for the photo.
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:22.400
What message?
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:23.839
So a photo is a message.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:24.160
Yeah.
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:25.200
It's a signal.
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.839
Any photo you've ever seen of anyone, they are saying, this is the signal I want you to notice about me.
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:30.319
Yeah.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:31.839
And your subconscious, yeah.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.240
Your subconscious, and people say my subconscious is in control.
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:38.880
Okay, well, you tell me what you're going to dream about three nights from now, or you tell me if your subconscious is going to do it.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:43.359
And if you grind your teeth, you tell me you're choosing to do that, or your subconscious is making you do that.
00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:44.960
Your subconscious is in control.
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:46.960
And the photo comes and you go like this in the picture.
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:48.240
Have you got your phone, Frank?
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:49.119
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:51.599
I I genuinely don't take selfies.
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:52.640
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: No, good.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:53.599
Well, not good.
00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:59.440
You people can take selfies, but uh it's a very common thing for people to tilt their head in a selfie.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.680
And that is exposing an artery.
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:06.400
And it is you're exposing a big artery, you're exposing your carotid, and you're saying, I'm no threat.
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:08.319
It's a no-threat signal.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.759
Aaron Ross Powell So interesting.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.039
So body language you can teach to infinite level, and I love to get people engaged in this.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:16.880
And then we teach tone.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.480
So there's different tonalities.
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:20.319
There are different tonalities.
00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:22.319
I hate the dentist.
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:23.680
I hate the dentist.
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:24.880
I hate the dentist.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.839
You know, there's tonalities to everything you can say.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:28.240
Yeah.
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:30.079
And then you have the words that go with it.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:31.119
And we teach all of those.
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.039
We teach body, words, and tone.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:44.240
So that you can convince the patient you're trying to see where they are on their journey, and for that tiny moment, the curated journey of their life whilst they're in the dental practice, whilst they're in your chair.
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:51.440
And if you're committed to seeing them and understanding them, how that communication is just it's more important than anything else.
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:52.559
It's almost been proven.
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:59.440
Daniel Kahneman talks about he was the first psychologist to win the Nobel Prize in economics for money.
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:02.480
So a psychologist winning the Nobel Prize in money.
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:15.279
And it was people would rather do business with someone they like and trust than someone they don't, even if the person they like and trust is less able to do the job and is more expensive.
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:25.359
So in dental terms, that is patients like dentists who they like and trust, I would rather have dentistry with them, even if they're crap at dentistry, are more expensive.
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:27.279
That's a Nobel Prize.
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:28.480
So it's hard to argue against.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:31.680
So it's proving you're trying to connect if that's the right thing to do.
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:32.079
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:37.759
Yeah, and I I can see that completely because if they're comfortable, that's all they care about.
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:38.240
Yeah.
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:39.599
If they fall asleep in your chair.
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:40.079
Yeah.
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.799
It's like watch my body language.
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:44.559
That's how that's how comfortable I am.
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:45.359
Expensive now.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:45.680
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.880
So when that happens, do they sit up and get expensive enough, no doubt.
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.200
Do they sit up and go, I can't believe I fell asleep?
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:52.319
Aaron Powell It's interesting.
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:53.920
It's kind of fifty fifty.
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.279
Some of them are in denial.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:55.839
Really?
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.759
And they'll say, um My nurse is quite fun.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.440
She at the moment she'll deliberately say, Oh, you had a little cat cat nap then.
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:08.720
And um some of them are like, I did not fall asleep.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:10.480
She's like, well, you you were snoring.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:11.200
Seriously.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.039
I mean seriously, it's your nurse is like the judge and jury here.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.000
You were definitely asleep.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:18.559
I don't know if I dare do it, like, oh, you fell asleep.
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:19.039
Yeah.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:24.559
Otherwise, people are just like, oh, I can't believe I fell asleep.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:25.519
Yeah, it's lovely then.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:30.720
Especially when I always give this pre-chat before I'm putting rubber dam on.
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:34.799
And you know, a lot of them, if they haven't had it before, you are putting something on.
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:36.400
It's all m it's very claustrophobic.
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.920
And or if you're not warning them, you're coming at them with something over their mouth.
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.920
And I talk about surrendering and just like, you know, you're safe and blah.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:45.599
You can do all of these things with it on.
00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.680
And it's amazing at the end when they weren't sure.
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:51.359
And they're like, I love that thing.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:51.759
Yeah.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:57.440
I'm like, it See, it's it's very interesting, but it's a barrier between what we're doing.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:03.680
And I always say to them, unfortunately, modern life is so busy that this is a forced rest with the dentist.
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:04.400
Even with the drinking.
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:05.039
Dark glasses.
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:09.839
Dark glasses, and usually I say bring your headphones, listen to something else while once it's on.
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:16.640
Aaron Ross Powell And Because it's like that mini nap you sometimes get when you're lying in the garden or you're watching TV and you just nod off and you think, oh my God, that was so peaceful.
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.000
How did that happen?
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.039
And yeah, with that and if you can generate that in the environment.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:26.640
Trevor Burrus I read somewhere it it also is when you you don't move your body for a certain amount of time.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.960
So it makes sense why you fall asleep in a car or a train or like you say.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:34.960
Because your brain just thinks I can't do anything, so may as well fall asleep.
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:35.920
Yeah, I love that.
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.000
How do we make our brains do nothing?
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:41.039
I need some of that.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:43.519
I might I'm gonna give myself some caries and book images.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.440
Like the weighted blanket and things.
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:45.839
Yeah.
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:47.039
Same thing.
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:51.359
Well it's and you know, and if you think of a baby, like a baby, they get wrapped.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.440
You know, they're like swaddled, aren't they?
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:55.920
You know, when they're first born, they're like this and they're just like out.
00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:58.480
So maybe that maybe that circuitry is still in us.
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:01.279
Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, someone said that's why you fall asleep in the cinema.
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.359
Just like going back in the womb.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:04.400
Wow.
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:05.839
Wow.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:06.640
Depends on what you're watching.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:06.880
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:08.000
Yeah.
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:10.319
Got a drink and a snack and it's dark.
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:11.440
Aaron Powell Could be.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:14.319
And certainly the dark glasses, I think, do it.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.680
And then the sense of trust and you're lying down, you're supine.
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.680
And for me, the rubber dam, I think it externalizes the teeth.
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:29.839
And you know it's a multifunctional orifice and and but you kind of it's like the teeth are out.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:31.680
Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, I'll always show them.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.319
Some people d decline to see anything, don't they?
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:38.559
But show them in the mirror and like, look, all I'm doing is working on that those few teeth now.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.920
And it y when you can see the uh contrast and they get I think they get it.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:50.000
Trevor Burrus Do you think maybe it's also I mean this is just an idea that it's they know their airway is not being challenged as well.
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:56.240
Because when there's loose things in your mouth and you know and the rubber dam with a beautiful seal, we're we're really selling the rubber dam here.
00:24:57.359 --> 00:24:58.720
This wasn't uh intentional.
00:24:59.039 --> 00:24:59.119
No.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.200
No, I talked about safety with it.
00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:01.440
Yeah.
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:01.920
Okay.
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.359
I always say I I'm pretty sure this will become mandatory with time.
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:05.839
Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:07.200
I love a bit of history.
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:08.559
Sanford Barnum.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:08.880
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:09.359
Oh, really?
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:10.559
I didn't know the name of the guy.
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:11.599
No, for 1800.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:11.920
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:12.720
Yeah, 1854.
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:13.039
Yeah.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.200
At the California Dental Association meeting.
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:16.319
And he did it with a napkin.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:18.480
So he had a napkin like you get and he cut the corner off.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.799
And he said, if I get a cloth napkin, I push it over the tooth, I get much better dryness.
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:24.720
And that was where it sort of started.
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:26.319
Yeah, it's nuts, isn't it?
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:27.519
It is.
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:33.839
I can imagine making something like that for uh mechanical, just a little a little kind of metal ring.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:34.160
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:34.799
It was a little hole.
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:35.279
That's what it was.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:38.319
And we kind of do it now just with a clamp and some non-litex.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:40.480
I think Marshall Kelleher taught me that a long time ago.
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:41.599
Yeah.
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:42.400
Crazy.
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:48.960
So when you're doing all of this teaching You must come across uh dentists who are struggling.
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:49.519
Yeah.
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:56.319
What do you think are there any kind of patterns on the ones that are struggling or the ones that seem to be thriving?
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:59.039
Are there kind of any similarities?
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:01.039
Yeah, I mean that's broad, friend.
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:04.720
So I think it can start at the beginning.
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.519
I think some people go into dentistry because they're made to.
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:13.039
I think they're made to, you know, through parental pressures and family pressures and stuff like that.
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:19.119
And if you're walking down a path you don't want to walk down, and it's quite a hard path, it feels brutal.
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:25.200
If you're walking down a path you really, really want to walk down, obstacles are just fun things to overcome.
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.519
And that's a big, big difference.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.400
One of them is free motivation.
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.759
It's just fun and enjoyable, and you s you lean into it.
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:35.599
And the other one, you're having to rely on willpower.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:38.640
And if you're relying on willpower, it is finite.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:49.200
And you will then have more disposition to work in an easier environment or an environment where you challenge yourself less and you might cut corners.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:27:01.119
And so there are personality characteristics as well where you can measure in people, which are things like hard work and attention to detail, which are normally distributors in human psychology.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:10.799
And if somebody isn't into attention to detail and finds hard work, which you measure by how many tasks do you start but also complete, not how many you start, but how many do you complete.
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.200
So like you set up a podcast and you are recording episodes, you've completed those tasks.
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:16.880
Then people said, I must do a podcast.
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:18.480
And I said, Well, how many episodes have you done?
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:19.519
Zero.
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:32.720
So if you have someone who's attention to detail oriented, walking a path they want to walk, and has the hard work built into them, like that conscientiousness is the personality characteristic we call it.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.920
That's made up of industriousness and orderliness.
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:41.680
If you have those things, then those people tend to do well as long as they can connect with patients.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.920
If you can't connect, you don't like your job, you're struggling with it.
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:52.559
And we've had people turn up on the course front and say, like, I've got two GDC cases at the moment, I had four last year.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.920
You know, thing I'm really struggling, I'm here for you to wave your magic wand.
00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:56.960
Literally, I've heard those words.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:59.039
Just wave your magic wand and fix it for me.
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:07.440
And I can say, well, I can teach you technical dentistry and I can try and teach you psychology, but you're going to need a journey of self-discovery to see.
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.720
To see if this aligns with who you are and what you want.
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:17.440
I always say to people, if you're doing it just for money, I promise you, go and work in the markets.
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:18.960
Go and work in the broking.
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:20.240
Go and broker commodities.
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:21.440
Yeah.
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.119
Go and work at Goldman Sachs.
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:24.640
Trevor Burrus, there's easier ways to make money.
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:25.599
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And big money.
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:29.920
You know, you might sell your practice for 10 million quid or something, but I know people get that as an annual bonus.
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.359
They get as an annual bonus when they were 28 years old.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:34.559
Aaron Ross Powell Especially London.
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:35.119
Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:38.640
Less so now, but you know, they all seem to be comfortable.
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:41.920
The guys I was at school with who did that.
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:42.400
Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:42.880
Yeah.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.720
So I people do struggle.
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:52.400
I think the thing they struggle with most is, you know, it comes back to them getting an environment where they're pressured to compromise on time.
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:54.160
Maybe we should do a little little thing.
00:28:54.400 --> 00:29:02.880
How I say to you, so if you you're not my student, Friday, you don't need to learn anything from me, but I would say when you do a consultation, how long do you want?
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:04.079
And I didn't say get.
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:06.400
I didn't say get or need.
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:07.839
How long do you want?
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:09.599
And that's the key.
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:13.839
And other people will say, well, actually, if I want, I really would like an hour.
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:15.359
You know, I want an hour.
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:16.960
And then we'll say, well, how long do you get?
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:18.799
And they'll say, well, 15 minutes.
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.039
Okay, well that's that's tough.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:23.440
Because you you're not getting what you want.
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:25.279
And you've got to want to be there.
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:30.960
And then you can get into difficult habits and you know, are you squaring off your admin cleanly every day?
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:32.079
Are you getting your notes done?
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:34.880
Are you are you reporting on every radiograph?
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:37.039
Are you are you doing all your attention to detail?
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:39.039
Have you got the equipment you want?
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:42.319
You know, have you got your caries die?
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:42.799
Yeah.
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:44.240
Or are you guessing?
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:45.440
And how does that feel?
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:53.440
And I think it's all those those moments and experiences that can accumulate in people and it starts to feed into their concept of themselves.
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:57.920
And then they don't like being having that identity tied into being a dentist.
00:29:58.079 --> 00:29:58.640
And I get it.
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:00.079
And I we see that a lot.
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:00.720
Yeah.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:01.440
A lot.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:07.680
It's like um I'm just thinking back to some of the worst jobs I've had and what's the worst?
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:09.519
It's probably exactly what you're saying.
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:14.559
When you're being encouraged down a path of doing it a way that doesn't align to who you are.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:15.839
Yeah, a hundred percent that.
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.960
So every day you're lying to yourself.
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:19.599
Yeah.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.559
Um it's it can be quite um subtle.
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:26.079
Because it can creep.
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:27.440
Yeah, creep in.
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.079
Was that working in practice?
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:31.279
Yes.
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:32.079
Yeah.
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:35.599
Actually um talked about this on another podcast very briefly.
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:42.799
But I've walked out of a couple of jobs and people were shocked at listening to it as if I don't know.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:48.240
I the way I see it is that you're self-employed protects you as well as the practice.
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:59.440
And if something's not working for you the same way that it's not working for a practice, and if things are actually wrong and incorrect with it not being there, that is your way of getting out.
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:00.240
Yeah, it is, yeah.
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.680
Um it's actually better than being employed in in that r respect.
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:04.079
Yeah.
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:14.960
But um there was a I probably can't say things for legal reasons, but there was a a practice I worked for that was the first of their kind in the UK.
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:19.200
And it wasn't quite open, so it was due to be open.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.400
So I was there at the start.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:22.400
No medical emergencies box.
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:22.960
Yeah.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:30.160
There were salespeople employed as treatment coordinators who'd been selling kitchens and cars the week before.
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:30.559
Wow.
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:32.319
Taking OPGs.
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:33.279
Wow.
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.200
And then with marker pens putting where implants would go.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:37.519
Wow.
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:39.839
And no one had even asked me if I did implants.
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:49.599
Now this is probably seems quite extreme, but the way it was sold to me was that I was going to have a salary plus what um private income I had a proportion.
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:54.880
So it was very appealing because I was trying to get you know, pursue my career.
00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:55.599
It is.
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:59.839
It felt qu like a a good in-between going from NHS to private.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:09.119
And um I kept raising these things, and they, you know, you're I was being filmed because I was apparently going against company policy, speaking out.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:15.680
And in the end, you just have to almost hold your own and just keep remembering that no, this is not okay.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:15.920
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:17.599
Because that was just you must comply.
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:19.680
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yes, you must comply.
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:24.480
They wanted me to see there'd be patients in multiple rooms and I'd go between.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:25.920
So numb someone up.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.960
And and it was just a lot um Did this go on for long?
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:29.519
Were you there long?
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:30.319
Six weeks.
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:30.880
Wow.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:44.480
Um I took and I didn't see very many patients in that time either, but I had a salary, so I was given time and thinking they knew, you know, let's just like they employed someone um eventually to try and help them get up to CQC standards, that kind of thing.
00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:46.240
Aaron Ross Powell You're supposed to do that before you're open.
00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:47.279
Yeah.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:50.799
But I remember them saying, you know, there's a patient out there.
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:54.000
I was like, oh, we can't see anyone, there's no medical emergencies box.
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:56.799
And they said, well, he's not going to have a heart attack.
00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:58.319
That's not how it works.
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.000
It's not there because everyone's going to have a heart attack.
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:06.160
It's just a necessity.
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:18.240
But yeah, I I took my little suitcase and I have so much stuff of my own on a on a really early in the morning, just as reception pulled up, just didn't say a word, just took all my stuff and left.
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:22.240
I had to block every number and just emailed head office.
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:24.160
Aaron Ross Powell Oh my god, this is like proper.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:27.519
Yeah, because I felt very intimidated at the same time.
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:30.240
And I think I was a lot younger.
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:32.720
I'd it I wouldn't have lasted six weeks now.
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.440
Aaron Ross Powell And if I can paint a scenario or ask you a question.
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:44.559
If it hadn't been quite so bad but was deteriorating and they'd started paying you, do you think you Because I see some people get caught in the financial trap as well.
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:48.160
Like their lifestyle adjusts and the money's coming in a little bit as well.
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:53.839
And I see it even in the NHS, and people say, well, I've got this and I've you know I've kind of bought into this lifestyle.
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.599
Now I'm on this hamster wheel.
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:57.200
Aaron Powell I think that would make it even worse.
00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:57.920
Yeah, I do.
00:33:58.319 --> 00:33:59.440
Because then they've got a hold on you.
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:00.240
Aaron Powell Yeah, they have.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:01.839
And you've got outgoings.
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:03.920
And you think, well, now I need to walk out.
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:05.039
And you walked out.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:06.000
Aaron Ross Powell I did.
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:11.440
I did do I did demand the salary for the six weeks I got it.
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:12.000
Trevor Burrus Did you?
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:12.400
Yeah.
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:13.119
Nice.
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:14.320
You're quite strong.
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:17.840
They can only say no, can't they?
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:22.239
But I just wrote down every single point of the contract they'd gone against.
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:24.639
Trevor Burrus So I mean these contracts exist.
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:25.920
Yeah.
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:26.559
Yes.
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.760
And you are relying on the system there, though.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:30.400
Yeah.
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:32.719
And then their integrity.
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:49.440
Because you know, in building this i uh my comparison, and I don't know if I have my naivety removed, but dealing with our profession, which is quite heavily regulated, and arguably over-regulated, certainly has been argued in the past that we are.
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.360
I'm not sure we are.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:35:03.440
Because dealing with builders and contractors who are not regulated, and I promise you it whatever if if anyone watching this is married to one uh or knows one, you'll probably agree.
00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:08.559
It is brutal, ruthless, and cutthroat.
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:23.760
And anyone coming into the industry with full integrity, you are not brutal, ruthless, and cutthroat enough, and you will be chewed up and spat out and bankrupt, which means it's a self-perpetuating cycle in the construction industry of we'll work alongside each other, but I am watching you.
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:26.559
And if there's any weakness, I'll have you.
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:36.239
And if there's anything you do, and if there's any debatable, there's even in this room you're in for and we've got debatable things on one cord over here, and there's a power line too close to a data cable.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:36.960
So we're getting sound.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:39.039
It's like, well, who's going to pay to have it fixed?
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:41.360
And they're just like, well, I'm not, well, I'm not.
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:42.239
And it's just conflict.
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:43.679
It's conflict all the way through.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.760
And embezzlement and theft.
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:47.119
Not with a lot of them.
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.360
Our contractors have built this that are actually very good, but we we've it's unbelievable.
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:54.320
So I think we need we need to.
00:35:56.559 --> 00:35:57.679
Because it shows there's display.
00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:58.000
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:58.800
It's absolutely fair.
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:00.480
Yeah, I agree.
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:01.039
I agree.
00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:02.000
I agree with you.
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:03.039
It's absolutely fair.
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:12.800
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I think sometimes as well, dentistry is an odd an odd industry that you talk to I have friends in other jobs and other industries, and they just think it's crazy.
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:14.320
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.400
In the way that I've described that people think that's brave walking out of that job.
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:22.559
Like I've got friends in other positions who would just be like, well, it's not right, so you're out.
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:25.360
It's not crazy.
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:29.599
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Juno, I know we're supposed to be sharing things, so I'll share something with you.
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:35.280
I wanted to leave the NHS hospital job I was in for a number of reasons.
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:41.119
And I don't want to speak ill of anyone, because I got to work with some wonderful people, incredible surgeons, helped so many patients.
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:41.760
It was amazing.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.679
But it's definitely time for me to go.
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.519
And I I don't mean it arrogantly or boastfully, but there was a bit of me that kept me there.
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:49.519
I was like, well, if I go, what's going to happen?
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:51.199
You know, who's going to treat so-and-so?
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:52.559
Who's going to finish this case?
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:54.480
Who's going to be able to do this?
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:58.800
And you realize the world will keep spinning when you walk out.
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:00.800
You're not that important, Rich.
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:04.159
And everything kind of just carries on.
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:05.920
It certainly doesn't circulate around you.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.760
And you left- I left and I just remember thinking.
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:11.920
It's a similar thing to what you're saying, that people walk out and they say, I'm out.
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:12.639
I'm gone.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.719
And everything will will carry on.
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:16.000
Advertise your job again.
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:16.639
Trevor Burrus, Yeah, they will.
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:17.440
They will.
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:20.559
And you know, I I I tell our delegates this with the NHS.
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:24.800
I don't think the NHS is a particularly good employer, I'm afraid.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:32.960
Because particularly for dentists, because they hold all of the authority but don't take any of the responsibility.
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:41.119
Like if you have an error as a dentist, you don't go in the dock with an NHS representative by your side saying, I'm complicit in this error or this outcome.
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:43.039
You're all on your own.
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:47.360
And it it does it it almost traps you into it.
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:51.920
I find it a very difficult employer from that point of view.
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:59.519
And if you leave or you exit or you have a nervous breakdown, all they're going to say is who's going to see the patients?
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:00.480
Who's next?
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:01.599
Where's the locum list?
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:02.320
Get someone in.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:03.440
Yeah, yeah, I hope you're right.
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:04.159
Get better soon.
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:05.599
Let us know when you're coming back.
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.840
Return to work interview, book it in.
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:11.519
I d I don't f find it cares.
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:13.119
Am I being cynic?
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:18.159
No, but I I think you could argue that on any job, the employer in the end.
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:21.840
They have their own needs to be met in a work capacity.
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:22.079
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:22.400
They do.
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:29.199
So yes, they might be sad if someone after 30 years has decided, do you know what, I don't want to work here anymore.
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.320
And they're not retiring, they're going somewhere else.
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:39.199
But as soon as they've got over that that day, or then it's like, okay, we we need to advertise the job.
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:39.920
That's true.
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:43.840
Which is why you have to advocate for yourself.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:45.199
Yeah, I okay.
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:45.760
I like that.
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:46.800
I mean I think you're right.
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:48.480
I I just I miss the human touch.
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:48.800
Yeah.
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:51.199
You know, I miss I I it saddens me slightly.
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:51.440
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:52.239
Maybe I'm a bit caught.
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:53.440
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: No, no, I don't think you are.
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:55.119
I think you're a realist, and I think that's true.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:00.880
But I will um I I will die on the hill of believing humans need connection.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:01.679
Definitely.
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:02.559
And there's value in it.
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:03.119
Aaron Powell Definitely.
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:04.000
Trevor Burrus And there's value in it.
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:13.679
I'm very lucky now to work in a practice where it definitely feels more than work and we can all get on and there's a bigger kind of thing.
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:17.039
And I never feel Sunday scary going into work.
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:17.679
That's so cool.
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.639
Do you know people hearing that will because you've just shown them it's possible.
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:23.360
It's so nice.
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:34.719
Aaron Ross Powell I remember shadowing a lady in um Sheffield who was in community dentistry before I started dental school and she said she never dreaded going into work.
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:36.480
And it's one of the reasons I did it.
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:36.960
Aaron Powell Yeah.
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:39.199
It's such an important message though.
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:42.320
Trevor Burrus And I remember thinking, wow, she never dreads work.
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:46.960
Because I I grew up with people, you know, saying, Oh God, we've got to go to work tomorrow.
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:50.880
And it's I was like, gosh, she never dreads getting in the car going to work.
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:52.320
What a lovely career.
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:57.519
If you can if you can travel to work and think, I'm actually looking forward to being there, I'm excited by my day.
00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:58.079
Yeah.
00:39:58.480 --> 00:39:59.280
What a lovely feeling.
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:01.039
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, it is a privilege.
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:01.840
Yeah.
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:04.400
And and you know, being a gratitude plays into that as well.
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:10.400
But your work circumstances, your concept of how you rank in terms of your ability to deliver.
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:24.239
And you get a call from the ward and say, we think your patient's having an embolism.
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:25.280
Can you come and manage it?
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:30.719
And you've got BDS, maybe MFDS, and you think, well, that's going to be a challenge.
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:34.480
You know, I remember the shape of the sphenoid bone, is that relevant?
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:39.760
For me, it was always the lack of competency.
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:48.320
But if you if if you can go to work, I would argue if there's any business owners watching this, your biggest and best asset and your biggest liability are staff.
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:50.559
But if you've got good staff, you should cherish them.
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:51.599
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And happy staff.
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:54.079
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, if they're cherished, they will be.
00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:55.199
So if you're an associate.
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:56.079
Valued.
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:56.880
Yeah.
00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:00.079
If you were my staff, I would say, right, Fran, unbelievable.
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:01.119
Cash cow.
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:03.840
Really good at her job, lovely to have around.
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.000
How do I make sure she never wants to leave?
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:08.880
That would be a daily thought going through my mind.
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:11.679
I need I need her to see all these other jobs.
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:12.960
People are going to poach her.
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:14.480
She's going to go, Are you mad?
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:16.000
Do you think I'm ever leaving a spire?
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:16.639
Of course not.
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:28.480
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I think a lot of practices miss that though, that there's a focus on we don't want them here anymore, but they're missing the elephant in the room is the ones that are there, and they don't want them to leave.
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:28.719
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:31.280
It's because they don't call them fran, they call them a performer number.
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:33.039
They say you this is your performer number.
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:33.280
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.880
I have not thought about that for a long time.
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:35.679
I can still remember it.
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:36.719
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, don't give me a box.
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:37.840
I'm not if I want a number.
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:38.960
Who's the person?
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:41.119
Aaron Ross Powell I'm just 43031.
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:44.159
I like that.
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:44.800
Yeah.
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:45.440
Yeah.
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.719
But that's that's I I think all of the you know back to your original question about what are the challenges in dentry.
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:52.159
I think it we we summed it up there.
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:53.599
It's all of those put together.
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:55.599
And I think people can get into a pickle.
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:59.039
And we try and help them as much as we can here.
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:02.000
Aaron Ross Powell What's your advice to them then if they're struggling?
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:05.280
Trevor Burrus So uh i everything starts with know yourself.
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:07.440
Everything starts to know yourself.
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:10.480
And if if you want to know yourself, you should know all of yourself.
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:15.039
Not just the bits you want to see, but the bits you don't want to see and the bits you don't like to show.
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:15.440
Yeah.
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:17.760
And that is an inward journey that lasts forever.
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:19.679
But know what your motivations were.
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:23.440
So you're gonna have some realistic goals in life.
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:32.239
And if you haven't got a goal, so the I the way I teach it is this is imagine you have an infinite load of directions, you're in a sphere, and you can go in any direction.
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:41.440
You only find out if the direction you're walking along the path is meaningful and pleasant to you and pleasing and joyful once you started walking it.
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:44.320
And if it's not, then it doesn't feel fulfilling.
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:46.480
So life doesn't feel fulfilling.
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:48.400
Sunday night scaries.
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:57.599
If you have got some curated direction, so let's say we just make it a circle, like a compass, and I can say, well, I don't I don't want any of these directions.
00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:01.440
I don't want any of that, but I like that sort of range, this 30-degree range.
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:03.760
At least we can curate the direction you want.
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:05.440
And is that family?
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:06.480
Is it money?
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:07.840
Is it working week?
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:08.559
Is it freedom?
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:09.360
Is it opportunity?
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:10.079
Is it security?
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:11.199
Yeah, what time is it?
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:13.599
Yeah, and and really do the work.
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:16.239
And that's we call that a future authoring exercise.
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:29.280
So we'll ask everyone to do a future authoring exercise, and you'd have to go into your own head and think, what and you know, one of the questions, for example, I would give to you, Fran, is like two years from now, describe to me your average Tuesday.
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:30.960
Okay, who are you with?
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.119
How often do you see, let's pick, for example, your mum.
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.800
Do you get to take it for lunch as much as you want and spend time with her?
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:42.960
And if that's important to you, we're going to book it on a Tuesday and we're going to create that life.
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:48.000
And once you've got direction for that, life feels to work towards.
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:49.519
And then your future.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:52.880
So how you feel in the moment, believe it or not, this is another psycho.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:54.000
I'm not trying to do a psychology.
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:54.880
No, no, no.
00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:58.559
How you feel in the moment has very little to do with your past.
00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:59.760
It's a lie, like my past.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.599
Past traumas and stuff like that.
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:03.840
It's your brain predicting your future.
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:06.320
Based on patterns it already knows.
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.079
Aaron Powell Well, so it's based on memories.
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:11.519
It is based on memories and experiences and the emotions we attach to them.
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:26.719
But if I example it in an extreme way, imagine your past has been full of security, opportunity, freedom, love, everything you wanted, and you had abundance and wealth, and you've lost it all, everything.
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:33.280
You're now living in a skip, eating old crisps out of a discarded packet, and you're cold and alone and unloved.
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:37.360
Don't tell me your past makes you feel different in the future.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:38.480
Yeah, that's very true.
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:39.599
Flip it around.
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.400
You've had a terrible past.
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:43.760
You were alone.
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:45.760
You struggled for money.
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:47.760
Food wasn't abundant.
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:51.440
You lived in a very impoverished way, and now that's gone.
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:52.800
And you have love, friend.
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:55.119
You have abundance, you have freedom, security.
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:56.960
How do you feel in the moment?
00:44:57.199 --> 00:44:58.000
You feel good.
00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:07.199
Your brain is a prediction machine, and it's taking everything that's happened and everything you know and everything you're connected with and making predictions for your future, and it will give you feelings, those feelings in the moment.
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:09.199
And that's how we experience life.
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:10.800
We think it's our past, it's not.
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.800
Your brain is fundamentally a prediction machine and it's predicting things.
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.599
And if we can predict a better future, we feel great in the moment.
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:21.599
So we try and future author for people and align their values.
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:23.199
Make them think what they do want.
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:28.719
Find out what's in their heart with their values, connect it with the goals, and if they're aligned, moving forward.
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:32.960
You've got to have the values and you've got to have your goals and have them aligned.
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:47.360
And if they're not aligned, like if your if your goals are money and your values are something completely different, which is like free time and creativity, it's you're gonna it's gonna be difficult to f-quit and be an artist.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:47.599
Trevor Burrus, Yeah.
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:48.400
Well, exactly.
00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:49.199
Beautiful.
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:49.920
You don't even need it.
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:51.199
That's the exact thing you have to do.
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:53.519
Yeah.
00:45:53.920 --> 00:46:05.679
You know, it's I always think if I wasn't gonna go down a route that I needed income, one of the um driving reasons I went to university was to make sure I had a better income than I grew up with.
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:06.320
Yeah.
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:07.039
Me too.
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:09.039
I I wouldn't have done dentistry.
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:16.000
I would have gone and been an artist or gone and done French and Because I think Do your listeners know you're an incredible artist?
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:18.079
I'm not going to embarrass you.
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:20.239
I'm talking to them now, not you.
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:21.199
You're amazing.
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:22.079
I love looking at your work.
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:28.559
It's it's a privilege, I think, to go and do something without the money being there.
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:30.239
For sure.
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:31.519
For sure, yeah.
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:32.079
Yeah.
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:33.920
And that that that's the financial trap.
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:34.320
Yeah.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:35.840
That is the financial trap.
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:37.840
And if money's no object, what would you do?
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:43.280
Aaron Ross Powell Maybe if this whole thing that's coming in that Elon says is coming in, I might be an artist.
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:53.119
Either minimum income's coming in or saying don't don't save for retirement, because by the time we get there, there'll be no need.
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:56.559
Do you know it's hard to bet against him?
00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:58.159
You hit a trillion.
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:01.039
And you send these rockets into space, it's hard to bet against him.
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.199
But uh Yeah, it's very interesting.
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:04.639
I don't know the answer to that question.
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:07.920
I know in this country we can't afford our pension debt, so we're in trouble with that.
00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:10.239
So I hope he's right in a way.
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:12.320
Otherwise, we're going to be working too well.
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:13.519
86.
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:19.119
Have you ever been in a in a part of your career where you thought, do you know what I'm struggling?
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:19.599
And youth.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:20.400
Oh, for sure.
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:20.800
Yeah.
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:22.159
Oh, definitely.
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:27.280
Do you know I and I won't mention names, but I'm blessed with some of the people I've come across.
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:34.320
And I I I don't think I'm alone in thinking I got to where I got to in no small part by some elements of luck.
00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:38.239
Like I think most dentists I speak to say, General, I got lucky.
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:42.639
And that's not imposter syndrome, but like meeting you was luck.
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:44.159
You know, it is.
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:44.719
I feel lucky.
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:48.239
And now it's led to me talking to you here and having this experience.
00:47:48.480 --> 00:48:01.920
And you can pick up I've picked up things from people which feel lucky to me that have either pulled me through or have shown me a way that resonates with my values, a value that was uncovered in my heart.
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:06.159
Like I can remember I won't mention because they might see it, and I don't want to embarrass them.
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:16.559
But a couple of people where my work ethic was one way, and I'd meet someone else, and I could see their work ethic, and it was like someone turned on a light, and I remember thinking, I love that work ethic.
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:20.559
And then you find out that's that journey of self-discovery, and you think, that's who I am.
00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:24.400
I've d I just found a little bit about myself and it can pull you through.
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:37.519
And the most uncomfortable times in my career are when you have a predicted outcome or a predicted experience and you're either not capable, competent, or surprised or betrayed.
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:50.559
You know, so if if there's if you've tried to to say I can do a job or a particular procedure and you can't, I find that awful.
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:52.800
And that was really in my junior days.
00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:58.159
And that's why I ran back to do postgraduate training for the rest of my life.
00:48:58.400 --> 00:48:58.719
Uh-huh.
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:06.639
I do remember I, you know, when I was a foundation year, it was in the very early days of UFC fighting.
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:07.440
Okay.
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:08.159
Yeah.
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:09.360
I wasn't one of them.
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.440
But I had a patient who was.
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.440
And he's a lovely kind guy, like a lethal weapon.
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:19.599
And it was uh I hope you don't mind me indulging in the story.
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:20.159
No, no.
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:25.280
And he he and so I graduated from Guy's, and you know, I felt I was really reasonably well trained.
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:36.960
And I was working in a practice, and I'd had to take a tooth out the day before, and when I'd been handed the forceps to deliver this now loose tooth, a crusted autoclaved cusp was on the beaks of the forceps from a previous patient.
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.119
That was where I was working.
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:44.719
And in this situation, this guy had caries that went into a pulp, into the pulp in his lower right six.
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:48.880
And I said to my nurse, could I have the rubber dam and the file systems?
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:50.719
Um I need to extirpate this.
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:52.719
And they asked us, What's rubber dam?
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:55.119
And I think we got a file.
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:55.760
Okay.
00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:57.599
And so there was no rubber dam.
00:49:57.760 --> 00:49:58.719
You're asked to do endo.
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:00.639
This is an approved foundation you practice.
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:10.000
And they had one file for endo, which was autoclaved at the time, because it's pre-CJD, and you had to put a ring on your finger with a little chain on it and try and remember those.
00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:11.280
Yeah, and extirpate.
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:13.519
And I was trying to do this as best I could for this guy.
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.599
And my endo was obviously appalling.
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.880
And he developed a big fat face and had to go to hospital, and he missed his shot at the world championships.
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:26.559
And I remember thinking, right, there's about 42,000 dentists in the country, and I'm the worst.
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:32.079
And I'm not I I'm either going to leave or I'm going to improve.
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:36.639
And I and I genuinely remember thinking like And that was VT VT.
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:38.000
That was my vocational, yeah.
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:38.239
Yeah.
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:39.760
And everything else was fine.
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:43.519
Like doing doing composites seemed fine at the time.
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:46.880
Like managing perio communication, I was okay at.
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:55.440
It was anything where there was that level of technical expertise, which I didn't possess, I definitely didn't possess, I didn't have the experience, and we definitely didn't have the equipment.
00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:58.079
And I there weren't mentors I could rely on.
00:50:58.559 --> 00:50:59.920
And I put this guy in hospital.
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:01.519
He had to go to the John Ratcliffe.
00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:07.840
And he was under max fax there, and he had his tooth taken out, and he was better and fine, but he missed his fight.
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:11.440
And I remember thinking, that I can't have a career of that.
00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:16.239
So I went back to hospital and I got a job at the Royal London.
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:20.159
And then I didn't leave for the next couple of days.
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:25.519
Yeah, and I'm it was that sense of inadequacy.
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:26.239
I think it was that.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:27.360
I couldn't live with that.
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:28.400
Yeah.
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:32.719
And like outside dentistry, are you that kind of person in life as well?
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:34.079
Like driven for results?
00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:35.280
You seem to be.
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:37.280
I guess.
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:42.800
So then it is really hard when you can't perform clinically, I think.
00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:43.360
Oh, yeah.
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.960
If you're that personality, and a lot of people are who go into these careers.
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:48.320
Yeah, I yes.
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:58.079
I I I mean, I we I don't know if we're going to talk about insecurities, but e everyone, most people are motivated on some level by some hidden level of subconscious insecurity.
00:51:58.239 --> 00:52:00.480
And every single person alive has this.
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:04.559
And they're either aware of it consciously because they've done the work or they're not aware.
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:10.639
And the people who are not aware, the insecurities will be controlling you far, far more than being aware.
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:17.280
And so, in terms of performance, like uh the the the big insecurities people have are significance.
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:21.920
An insecurity is something you can't create yourself and you need from other people.
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:22.719
It's a need.
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:24.960
So these come from a position of lack.
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:36.880
And the big six are significance, approval, acceptance, being perceived as very bright, intellectual, um conscripting pity.
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:41.119
Conscripting pity or being powerful, like super dominant.
00:52:41.199 --> 00:52:45.280
Aaron Ross Powell So they want pity or they they don't have attention.
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:50.719
Yeah, and they they use pity to gather which would be similar to the first one significance, yeah.
00:52:51.519 --> 00:53:05.039
If you if you can control pity if you generate a lot of pity and you're a perpetual victim, it's a form of control over other people because you can't be persecuted as a victim and other people's behavior has to change around you because you're the victim.
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:06.320
So that's one thing.
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:11.760
And and you know, I do a lot of work in psychology now, and you have to go through the journey of self-discovery.
00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:13.519
And for me, I think it's significance.
00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:20.400
I definitely like being able to perform so I l I lean into difficult things and doing them live now.
00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:20.960
Okay.
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:27.519
Because if I can do that live, it just feels it feels good to do it live because it's a challenge.
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:30.559
And I get to prove to myself that I am who I think I am.
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:30.960
Ah.
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:35.199
But it's a nervousness before, but you probably don't get very much anymore.
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.440
Um Do you feel nervous before?
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:41.760
I I think I've well, maybe I'm kidding myself, but I've learnt to enjoy that.
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:44.559
Like it's it's the same with doing physical training.
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:52.559
If you do physical training to a level where you think all I have is pain, and I'm just gonna do more, you can find yourself smiling.
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:53.360
Yeah.
00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:56.880
It's like when you work to exhaustion in the gym.
00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:57.840
I find that really funny.
00:53:58.079 --> 00:53:58.320
Yeah.
00:53:58.639 --> 00:53:59.599
Like you don't do that at work.
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:01.199
You get better and better, you do.
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:02.239
Yeah, you do.
00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:11.440
It's and it's yeah, because uh so we're in one of our development groups, we'll have everyone wear a heart rate monitor, and we say, okay, we have to take our heart rate up for the next five minutes to over 95%.
00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:14.800
And and should we just go to a hundred?
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:20.800
And should we just hold and let's just bounce around 95 to 100 and you think.
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:23.360
I think you're smiling because it's almost like sadistic.
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:24.880
It is a bit sadistic.
00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:27.679
But it's it's like it's like discovering yourself.
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:27.920
Aaron Powell, Jr.
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:29.840
Yeah, and knowing the real limits.
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:30.800
Yeah.
00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:31.440
Yeah.
00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:32.639
And pushing through them.
00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:33.840
Pushing through them.
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:37.760
So I i if you don't ask me questions for I'm gonna keep talking.
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:38.320
That's the problem.
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:40.079
This is what makes my job easy.
00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:42.639
Aaron Ross Powell So there's a personality characteristic.
00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:49.599
And it has the name neuroticism, but what it means so the the personality model we tend to use is called the big five.
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:53.599
And it's made up of openness, and your openness is astronomically high.
00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:54.239
Aaron Ross Powell Really?
00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:55.119
Uh without doubt.
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:59.039
We'll do the test when you're off camera and you're gonna be like 99 out of 100.
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:10.239
There is conscientiousness, hard work, ambition, drive, extroversion, which is your sensitivity and propensity to experience positive emotions.
00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:11.840
Really?
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:12.719
Is that the definition?
00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:13.199
Yeah.
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:14.719
That's what extroversion is.
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:16.639
That's interesting.
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:17.199
Yeah.
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:20.159
It's your it's the realm of positive emotion.
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:22.000
So joy, fulfillment, pleasure.
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:22.480
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:25.280
So you're more open to joy as an extrovert.
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:27.360
You find it easier to access.
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:28.880
Aaron Ross Powell That's so interesting.
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:30.719
I've never thought of it like that.
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:35.039
Trevor Burrus Your personality psychology, you could do a whole like we I teach that over like 12 weeks.
00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:36.880
It's an incredible subject.
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:38.400
There's agreeableness.
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:44.639
Agreeableness, which is compassion and empathy and kindness and warmth, that natural disposition.
00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:48.960
And you will know people who are just sort of it's like being around an angel when you're just close to them.
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:50.800
They're just massively agreeable.
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:55.119
And then there's the realm of negative emotion, sensitivity to negative emotion.
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:57.519
And that's called neuroticism.
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:02.480
Now, none of your listeners have ever woken up because they're too happy with how a procedure went.
00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:06.000
You've never lost sleep because your composite was so good.
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:06.960
No.
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:09.599
But if if you get the letter or the complaint.
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:10.079
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:10.719
Maybe that's to come.
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:15.039
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Or the post-op sensitive, well, congratulations, you won the composite world award then.
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:17.920
But if if you but you can worry.
00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:19.360
You can worry forever.
00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:23.440
No one treats a patient and goes home and says, I'm smiling because everything was so good today.
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:25.760
But you can be anxious about work forever.
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:28.239
You can worry about the patient all night.
00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:31.599
You can lose sleep and have wake-ups because you've got that.
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:38.079
So humans are far more disposed to the N than the E, the extraversion, the positive, we're far more disposed to that.
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:41.440
And it's normally distributed.
00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:42.639
Does that make sense?
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:44.800
So we've got this normal distribution.
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:57.599
And your neuroticism score, if it's very, very high, you experience consciously and subconsciously events that land and cause more impact and are harder to recover from at an emotional level.
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:00.400
You can think of neurocism as a threat sensor.
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:00.639
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:02.239
So you're feeling things deeper.
00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:06.559
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, and anticipating them more and seeing threats that might not even be there.
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:09.599
And it's a really important facet.
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:11.679
Now these schools aren't fixed.
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:13.440
They're not fixed.
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:19.519
So the number one thing we are asked for when we teach this is someone says, look, I am on an anxiolytic.
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:22.320
I am anxious about all sorts of stuff.
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:23.280
And I don't know why.
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:24.000
There's nothing specific.
00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:25.039
I said, what are you anxious about?
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:25.760
I don't know.
00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:27.199
I just feel anxiety.
00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:28.159
Yeah, run on anything.
00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:30.559
That is someone running on a high end.
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:32.159
And then they'll say, Is it something I can do?
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:33.679
And I said, of course there's something you can do.
00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:34.159
Of course.
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:34.880
This isn't fixed.
00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:36.400
Yeah, you can fix it.
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:37.360
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Thinking of people.
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:38.239
Yeah, well, good.
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:46.000
So the same bit of your brain that tells you to worry is the same bit of your brain that says don't get in Richard's ice baths upstairs.
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:50.079
The same bit of your brain because I promise you, if you want to do it after the podcast, we'll go upstairs.
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:51.119
No, no, no.
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:54.320
Not today.
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:59.519
Trevor Burrus The same bit of your brain that says don't do that is the same bit of your brain that gives you the worry.
00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:09.760
And you can take conscious control of it and you can say, this is one example, and say, I'm going to get into this horrible, life-threatening cold environment, and I'm going to breathe my way through it, and you can watch the scores drop.
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:14.880
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So are there people that that end score is so low, they're the ones that we all know them where.
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:17.039
They just seem to be attracted to danger almost.
00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:19.360
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yes, yes.
00:58:19.519 --> 00:58:23.519
And they're not looking at the danger.
00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:24.320
Trevor Burrus Yeah.
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:26.960
And they they have unbelievable tolerance to stress.
00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:30.400
But it's the extremes of any of these scores you have to be careful.
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:37.280
Because if your neurotism score is like zero or one, that that's the first diagnostics for a psychopath.
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:40.239
Like psychopaths have unbelievable stress tolerance.
00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:41.119
Trevor Burrus Interesting.
00:58:41.199 --> 00:58:42.239
Trevor Burrus They have very little impulse to be able to do that.
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:48.719
Trevor Burrus Yeah, I mean and psychopathy doesn't mean you want to hurt people.
00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:54.159
Psychopathy is impulse control and stress tolerance.
00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:56.480
Like you have no impulse control, because why would you?
00:58:56.719 --> 00:59:00.400
And you're infinitely these people I've worked with a couple of psychopaths.
00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:02.480
You could set the operating theater on fire.
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:03.519
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:05.840
laughing because I'm sure a lot of people would say this.
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:12.159
For surgeons in the NHS, it's it's like close to eight percent.
00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:14.239
Aaron Ross Powell can be diagnosed with psychopathy.
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:17.039
Trevor Burrus And how many What's the percent in the general public?
00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:18.239
About 1.2.
00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:19.840
Aaron Ross Powell And it's eight in NHS.
00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:21.199
So it's about one in fifty people.
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:27.360
I mean one in fifty people will have some form of personality disorder or characteristic.
00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:32.880
It's psychopathy, which is impulse control and unbelievable stress tolerance.
00:59:33.519 --> 00:59:35.519
Machiavellianism, which is Who is that?
00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:43.119
So that it comes from Nicolai Machiavelli, a 16th-century Italian politician who gave the famous question, is it better to be feared or loved?
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:49.679
And Machiavellianism is your ability to manipulate and taking and using manipulation to your advantage.
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:56.079
And that's a nice ethical question, because if you manipulate someone to be healthy, you know, is that a good thing or is that a bad thing?
00:59:56.239 --> 01:00:00.159
But in that in that context, it's really to your advantage and their disadvantage.
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:01.840
That's Machiavellianism.
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:04.880
There's narcissism, and that's a spectrum.
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:09.519
Everyone's a little bit of a narcissist, but it's when it becomes very, very significant.
01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:15.280
And the best way to think of narcissism is you're in a movie and you are the star of the movie.
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:20.559
And everyone else, literally everyone else, even your own children and family, are extras in the movie.
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:21.039
Okay.
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:26.000
And the movie star is the star, can't be questioned as the star.
01:00:26.239 --> 01:00:27.440
And they're the hero.
01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:33.280
And if you help the hero, you get cast in the movie and you are rewarded.
01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:37.440
But if you challenge the hero.
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:38.159
You die.
01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:40.000
You've got a baddie in the movie.
01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:44.079
And then the last one is sadism, which is just horrible because that's pleasure and other people's suffering.
01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:44.639
Yeah.
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:44.800
Yeah.
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.199
And you'll often see combinations therein.
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:48.239
Aaron Ross Powell That's so interesting.
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:56.239
Trevor Burrus Yeah, but you do you know the the Well, they're not all those four, but they have incredible stress tolerance.
01:00:56.400 --> 01:01:02.000
And you look at prisoners, they're similar, you know, that that you in there are some sex distribution differences between these things.
01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:04.159
It's fascinating to say it is fascinating.
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:10.079
Because and I I dentists like there will be dentists watching this who will see a patient walks in who's got that.
01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:13.039
And you might meet someone who enjoys it when you're upset.
01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:14.159
They might enjoy it.
01:01:14.239 --> 01:01:15.679
I mean, can you think of that?
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:19.840
Like they meet a highly agreeable, warm, kind, compassionate person.
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:26.079
And those people tend to make contracts with the world that if I'm nice, the world will be nice back, which isn't true.
01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:31.599
And then you then you meet a predator who finds pleasure when you're upset.
01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:32.800
It's real.
01:01:33.039 --> 01:01:34.960
I know I'm oh God, I've gone dark.
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:36.079
It has gone dark.
01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:37.440
Should we talk about the telescope?
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:39.760
But it's real.
01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:45.360
Are there any specific traits that are more common in dentistry?
01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:55.760
I think we get such a spectrum of people coming through, and there's no evidence that I can pull out that I know of of personality characteristics and dentistry.
01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:59.360
The two things you will see so let's brighten it up.
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:06.559
Because what you can say, if if you look at a combination of psychometrics in a human, which ones predict success?
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:09.840
And can we measure that and see what the correlation is?
01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:12.239
And that's fabulous, because we can do that.
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:17.039
So the first one is IQ, and that is equally normally distributed.
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:22.480
And if you have got into dentry a stem field degree, you're really like 115 plus.
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:33.519
And because it's normally distributed, I I say to anyone, if you don't know what to put in your gratitude diary, if you've got an IQ of 115, the flip side on the other side of the curve is 85.
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:36.800
You know, 15 up, because the hundred is always set as the average.
01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:37.199
Okay.
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:40.719
There's as many people below 85 as there are over 115.
01:02:41.119 --> 01:02:45.679
And if you're below 85, you will struggle to operate a till at McDonald's or a pocket calculator.
01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:52.400
So if you're at 115 and above, you should wake up every day and you were given a brain, and my God, thank you for that.
01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:52.960
Yeah.
01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:56.559
So IQ is correlates with outcome.
01:02:56.800 --> 01:03:00.000
It doesn't correlate as highly as conscientiousness.
01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:04.000
Hard work is more predictive than IQ.
01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:06.480
But if you combine the two, it's cumulative.
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:09.039
So IQ correlates at about 0.25.
01:03:09.920 --> 01:03:15.679
Um hard work, high conscientiousness, correlates at about 0.35 and they accumulate.
01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:16.000
Okay.
01:03:16.239 --> 01:03:19.280
So now we're we're close to 0.6, which is really good correlation.
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:23.039
If you add an extra version for an, you can add another 0.2.
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:31.039
So if you are joyful, high low threshold for feeling good about stuff, optimism.
01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:35.039
Hardworking and bright, that's kind of the best combination you can have.
01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:42.559
Openness, which is your realm of creativity, you you know I I know the joy you get from drawing, because you smile whenever I say the word draw.
01:03:42.880 --> 01:03:48.159
You smile on the D of draw, and I'm similar, is neutral.
01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:52.480
High neuroticism, sensitivity to negative emotion is slightly negatively correlated.
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:54.320
This is with income and career success.
01:03:55.039 --> 01:03:59.119
Um, and high agreeableness is negatively correlated as well.
01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:06.639
So the perfect like this isn't the perfect life, but this is career success, bright, hardworking, and happy.
01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:10.880
Openness is irrelevant, creativity is largely irrelevant.
01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:18.320
You don't suffer much in your head, like your tough mental resilience, and you're not very nice all the time.
01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:19.920
You're willing to have some boundaries.
01:04:20.320 --> 01:04:24.159
The best example of that is you're willing to walk out of a job after six weeks of not being happy.
01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:25.679
I think you you got it all.
01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:27.360
It's true though.
01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:32.719
I think if you if anyone else had been in that job you six weeks is probably too long, though.
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:34.400
Well, maybe you're just tough.
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:36.400
No, it was bad.
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:37.199
I love it.
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:43.519
Um let's briefly go back to connection, because it was running a bit um over.
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:48.960
How would how do you think people can get more connection?
01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:55.119
So the only thing that stops us from being connected to someone else is us thinking about ourselves.
01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:57.039
So move yourself out your own way.
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:06.239
And I I don't mean stare like a weirdo on the tube, but I mean stare metaphorically at the person you're looking at.
01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:08.719
So I'm not going to make it weird, but a bit weird.
01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:14.639
When I stare at Euphran, I'm looking at your mind.
01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:16.159
I'm trying to look at your mind.
01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:16.639
Okay.
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:18.559
Because it's mind-to-mind connection.
01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:18.960
Yeah.
01:05:19.039 --> 01:05:19.199
Yeah.
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:22.800
And you and I are our minds, and our minds live in our brains.
01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:25.840
And those brains give us emotions, feelings, and thoughts.
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:29.440
And those emotions, feelings, and thoughts become our actions.
01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:29.760
Yeah.
01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:33.440
Now youfran can only know me through my actions.
01:05:33.679 --> 01:05:33.920
Yeah.
01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:37.920
So you can only know my mind through my actions.
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:40.880
And I can only know your mind through yours.
01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:43.840
But what we're trying to do is a mind to mind connection.
01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:44.320
Okay.
01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:52.400
So it's understanding that my behaviors, thoughts, tone, words, movements are my only vessel for connecting with your mind and yours and mine.
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:54.719
And we that's how you do it.
01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:58.400
So the first way to do that is to be curious about yourself and your own mind.
01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:03.760
And then once you've taken In that to a certain level, be massively curious about other people's minds.
01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:05.440
Trevor Burrus And genuine curiosity.
01:06:05.519 --> 01:06:05.760
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:07.440
Oh, you've got oh you can't fake it.
01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:09.920
If you fake it, they're going to feel violated.
01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:13.280
It's faked when you meet a salesperson and they go, oh, how are you today?
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:15.440
It's like you don't care how I am, you want my money.
01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:21.519
But if you genuinely are curious, and I think you should be curious, because it might all end tomorrow.
01:06:22.480 --> 01:06:24.719
I've seen enough patients at the end of their life.
01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:27.039
Life is precious and short.
01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:29.280
So be curious, be massively curious.
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:36.000
And once you're curious and you start to see it, you will innately become passionate.
01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:44.079
So that the path to any internal motivation system is curiosity, passion, purpose, autonomy, and mastery.
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:46.320
It's a five-step process.
01:06:46.559 --> 01:06:50.719
Start with curiosity, then become passionate about connecting with people and understanding them.
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:55.440
And then it then you know if you can feed it into your job, it becomes purpose.
01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:58.239
Then you don't need to learn to do it, you just get better at doing it on your own.
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:00.880
And then people say to you, wow, you're so good at speaking to people.
01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:03.679
And you've hit that sort of mastery zone.
01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:05.199
But it starts with curiosity.
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:16.239
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, I'm just thinking if if you genuinely do like people chatting to patients isn't very hard because you're genuinely interested in the answer.
01:07:17.119 --> 01:07:23.519
It's like it's when certain people come through the door and you you're just chat-chat-chatting and then you're like, I need to do I need to do my job.
01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:23.920
Yeah.
01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:25.199
Because you've clicked with them.
01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:26.559
Some people it's very hard.
01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:26.880
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:27.679
Yeah, I agree.
01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:33.280
And if people are monosyllabic, you know, but then you can see why they're not speaking to you.
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:34.079
Yeah.
01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:39.280
And then remember that person, I promise, still wants connection.
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:47.199
So all you have to do is say to them, I see you and I see why you might be speaking that way.
01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:48.800
And I fully understand it.
01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:50.320
That's the harder type.
01:07:50.719 --> 01:07:52.639
That's that's uh but that's called a label.
01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:55.679
So a label is when you name how someone is feeling.
01:07:55.840 --> 01:08:01.039
And even if you get it wrong, they don't care because you're still saying, I'm curious, and I'm here.
01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:02.159
You care enough to ask.
01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:02.320
Yeah.
01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:05.679
Yeah, I'm showing you, I'm trying to tune in on how you're feeling.
01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:09.039
And it's the intent, it's not the outcome, it's the intent.
01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:12.079
And you're saying, I'm not in my way, I'm after your mind.
01:08:12.559 --> 01:08:13.280
That's all it is.
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:14.159
That's the label.
01:08:14.239 --> 01:08:16.159
That's that's one of the first skills we teach.
01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:20.720
First skills we teach in communication with real skills are mirroring and labeling.
01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:24.319
And a mirror is when you will use the patient's words.
01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:26.640
So you say to me, I say, Fan, how was your day?
01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:27.680
And you say it was fine.
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:30.720
And I would just put a tone into that and say it was fine.
01:08:32.399 --> 01:08:33.680
And you will fill that void.
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:34.800
You'll go, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:35.039 --> 01:08:36.079
And you've just heard me.
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:39.119
Because I've used your words, I prove to you I've heard you.
01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:43.760
You know, and if someone says, I you know, I don't like the dentist, you don't like the dentist?
01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:47.039
And they will fill the gap and give you that information.
01:08:47.199 --> 01:08:47.279
Yeah.
01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:50.319
At the same time, they've heard, you've heard me.
01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:51.920
And then you can use a label.
01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:54.640
It sounds like that was an upsetting experience for you.
01:08:54.800 --> 01:08:56.079
Like you've named my feelings.
01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:57.680
My God, how much do you love me?
01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:01.359
Mirror and label, it's a beautiful set of opening skills.
01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:05.920
We teach people and and we do we encourage people to do role play with it.
01:09:06.399 --> 01:09:11.680
And and like you can send people home and send them home with skills and say, right, you're gonna get in your Uber.
01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:17.760
You need to do skills three to seven and twelve on your Uber driver tonight and watch what happens.
01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:18.800
Aaron Ross Powell, interesting.
01:09:19.119 --> 01:09:20.399
It's a it's uh it's incredible.
01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:23.840
Aaron Ross Powell So being open really to it to connect more.
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:24.800
Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
01:09:25.039 --> 01:09:25.359
Yes.
01:09:25.520 --> 01:09:30.800
Being open to you know, the hardest thing is convincing people that there's value in this.
01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:31.359
Yeah.
01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:34.159
And I think it's because everyone could communicate.
01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:43.760
They will say, but I I am all you know, we like to think we're good at stuff, and I can speak to my mum and dad, and patients seem to like me, and I have an okay relationship with a receptionist.
01:09:43.920 --> 01:09:54.399
But you might be operating at a two out of ten, and that might be good enough, but you have no idea of the opportunities in life when you get to three, let alone six, let alone eight.
01:09:54.640 --> 01:09:56.560
And it's a continuous journey.
01:09:56.800 --> 01:10:01.279
Um so I I try to convince people that that connection is key.
01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:02.640
We teach dentistry too.
01:10:02.960 --> 01:10:03.760
Yeah, yeah.
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:04.159
Yeah.
01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:09.920
Those fantasies are uh, yeah, you know the fantastic patients.
01:10:10.319 --> 01:10:10.960
We love the right bird.
01:10:11.199 --> 01:10:12.000
Oh, wouldn't it be nice?
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:14.000
Maybe that's what we should get Elon to do next time.
01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:15.840
Maxillas, they can just drop them off.
01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:16.640
I know.
01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:23.439
I uh it sounds awful, but I'm sure everyone has those days where I think it'd be nice to just do it with no one.
01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:24.720
Dentistry is fun.
01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:27.039
The dentry is actually it's like colouring in.
01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:28.479
It's it's fun.
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:31.680
It's the thing it's attached to that all the challenges come from.
01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:32.399
Yeah.
01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:34.479
It is should have all been technicians.
01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:34.880
Yeah.
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:39.279
Everyone's got a cup of tea, and it's a lot of things.
01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:42.079
Yeah, bits of bits of plaster all over the nicely messy.
01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:43.520
Yeah, little flames everywhere.
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:45.039
It's like you're in a candlelit room.
01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:45.520
I love it.
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:47.760
Let's uh let's round everything up.
01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:48.239
Okay.
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:54.720
What advice would you give or do you wish you'd received if you went right back to the beginning of a career?
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:55.600
Wow.
01:10:55.920 --> 01:10:57.760
Wow, you've absolutely flawed me.
01:10:58.079 --> 01:10:59.600
What do I wish I'd been told?
01:11:01.279 --> 01:11:03.279
Um Invest your money.
01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:04.640
Don't waste it.
01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:05.840
Use money.
01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:19.760
Because you're you're gonna have some left over and invest that in there's a guy called Jason Greystone who talks about investment and put that aside because it would just money like it's not money for money's sake, but money gives you security, opportunity, and freedom.
01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:24.560
I wish I'd invested earlier, even when you don't even when you're skint.
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:24.960
Yeah.
01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:26.079
Even if it was tiny.
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:26.800
Yeah, tiny.
01:11:26.960 --> 01:11:27.119
Yeah.
01:11:27.520 --> 01:11:30.640
I promise Warren Buffett talks about it, you know.
01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:31.920
Compound interest.
01:11:32.319 --> 01:11:32.880
Natural interest.
01:11:33.199 --> 01:11:34.960
Compound interest, compound interest.
01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:39.199
And you won't get the reward straight away, but the compound interest is worth a lot.
01:11:39.520 --> 01:11:48.560
Um if you just push as hard as you can when you have the energy and align your values and your goals as quickly as you can.
01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:50.399
Find out who you are, find out what you're good at.
01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:55.600
Remember, a lot of people are going to try and sabotage you, because a lot of people don't want you to succeed.
01:11:55.840 --> 01:11:57.920
Learn to see where that's coming from.
01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:01.600
Relentlessly follow your your truth.
01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:03.439
But know your truth first of all.
01:12:03.760 --> 01:12:08.239
I wish I'd done that more instead of meandering a little bit and then thinking, do you know what?
01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:09.119
They're wrong.
01:12:09.359 --> 01:12:10.640
They're they're they're misleading me.
01:12:10.720 --> 01:12:11.920
I'm I'm I'm right.
01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:13.600
And push for it.
01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:18.399
Build systems for removing friction.
01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:24.960
Like the best thing that's happened to me recently is AI no creation.
01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:28.000
Aaron Ross Powell One of my friends has uh his own business with that.
01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:29.119
Good for him.
01:12:29.359 --> 01:12:29.520
Yeah.
01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:30.159
I love him.
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:32.800
I don't uh I don't maybe I'm spending money with him already.
01:12:33.279 --> 01:12:41.520
But you know, a little microphone like this or a simple uh simple app on your phone and any of the big engines, you can you can create Yeah.
01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:44.720
Like my boss said, it's probably saved him an hour a day minimum.
01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:45.199
Yeah.
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:46.399
Massive, isn't it?
01:12:46.479 --> 01:12:46.560
Trevor Burrus.
01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:54.720
And the bigger the case, and everyone who's ever met a very difficult patient here will know that's the one you've got to write the most notes on.
01:12:54.960 --> 01:13:00.319
Whereas if you just say, well, here's a full transcript and populate the relevant notes and keep the transcript.
01:13:01.359 --> 01:13:03.199
Like the and people say you're allowed to do that.
01:13:03.359 --> 01:13:08.079
Well, when you discuss something with a patient, you have to write down patient said this, I said this, patient said this.
01:13:08.159 --> 01:13:10.000
I'm just doing it for the whole conversation.
01:13:10.560 --> 01:13:15.680
So I I I love being able to write incredibly good notes within about three minutes.
01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:17.039
So nice.
01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:17.920
Yeah.
01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:19.760
And that gives you time.
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:20.560
So I yes.
01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:21.439
AI notes.
01:13:22.159 --> 01:13:22.960
Invent AI notes.
01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:24.479
I think that's the advice I would have given, though.
01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:26.720
Not that not the AI notes bit, but everything before that.
01:13:26.880 --> 01:13:28.560
Just know who you are.
01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:33.039
Know who you are and shamelessly pursue it with passion and enjoy it.
01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:34.880
That's great advice.
01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:35.359
Thanks.
01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:36.960
Thank you for your thank you for your time.
01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:38.079
Thank you for making the journey.
01:13:38.159 --> 01:13:38.880
It's so nice to see you again.
01:13:39.760 --> 01:13:40.560
Ice bar for next time.
01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:42.079
And in a lovely podcast studio.
01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:42.960
It's cool, isn't it?
01:13:43.199 --> 01:13:43.600
Yeah.
01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:44.319
Thank you.
01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:45.520
Not at all.