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Hi, I'm Bob La Liberté with theCUBE Research, and welcome to this analyst angle on reskilling the network workforce for an AI-driven era.
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Now, today we're talking about one of the most pressing and often least discussed challenges in enterprise networking, that being people and skills.
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As AI reshapes how networks are designed and operated, we're also facing a major generational shift in the workforce with a significant portion of experienced network professionals approaching retirement.
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So joining me to unpack what this really means and how Cisco is thinking about reskilling at scale are Par Marat, the VP of Learn with Cisco, and Ryan Rose, Director of Skills and Certifications Product Management, Learn with Cisco.
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Well, it's great to have two CUBE alumni joining me for this video.
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And we've got a lot of ground to cover.
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So why don't we get started?
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Par, for the first question, you know, we keep hearing that a large percentage of network operations talent could retire in the next five years.
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Now, I guess this also happens at the same time where AI is fundamentally changing operations.
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So from your perspective, you know, what's the real issue here?
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Is this a talent shortage, skill shift, or is it going to be both?
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Uh it's a both and.
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So even before AI, there was significant pressure and a skill gap and a talent shortage.
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Um, but this is where it gets very critical.
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Um you're spot on.
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I mean, according to the uh Bureau of Labor Statistics, there is a high concentration of what you know we can refer to as early gen engineers.
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And these were the individuals who really built the original enterprise backbone.
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And, you know, when you think about it, over the last 30 years, we together have gone through the age of the internet, uh, the age of mobile, and the age of cloud, to where we are now living in a world literally woven together by these interconnected networks.
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And it's complex.
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Now, at the same time, because of AI, the demand on the network has never been higher and it's increasing.
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Every digital interaction happens on the network.
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And a lot has, you know, evolved over that period of time, starting with, you know, one of the programs that uh Ryan and I both were on and actually spoke about on theCUBE in the past, and that was a DevNet, where we started how do we start to build skills around automation?
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And so we started that skill shift, but it's even more pressing now with network automation as a need for the modernizing these networks, as well as AI ops.
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So it's not just about the uh aging out, if you will, but it's also about the efficiency.
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It's about capturing the logic of these complex networks so that we can have that business continuity and be safe and reliable going forward.
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Um when we start to look at this too, um, it is it's it is as par said, it's that um yes and uh it's both and uh it's it's because of an intersection between skill readiness and network readiness.
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Like when you, you know, as you pointed out, like AI is fundamentally changing operations, and you start having a lot of organizations all over the world thinking of the network as an enabler.
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To Parr's point about how with these demands, there are a bunch of new demands on the network.
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But there's also all of these advancements that are happening on the network, whether it's advancements in things like um, you know, NetOps and AI ops, or even uh literal technology like Wi-Fi 7.
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And so that is actually opening up a lot of opportunities as far as the need for skilled network engineers.
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It's just that the changing nature of the expectations of those skills is the thing that is uh really widening that horizon of all of these engineers that, as we look at the people that have been building the networks for the last 30 years and those that will build the networks for the next 30 years, um, uh those expectations of what they know is also then changing because of those demands from AI and because of that new technology that's also coming out every single day.
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Yeah.
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The the last thing I'd say, and I'm sorry, Bob, I cut you off.
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Go ahead.
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No, go ahead.
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Yeah, I I I I'd also say that that you know the skill shifts are happening within each of those domains as well.
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Uh, going from the traditional builder style from where you're configuring to having to look at this as more from a systems standpoint.
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So the foundational skills are still critical.
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Um if anything, it's a broader skill set in order to make sure that these skills are there to design and to operate and to oversee, uh especially in these AI workload-intensive networks.
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So the good news is uh we are addressing that as we have in the past.
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We're addressing it and have been addressing it.
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And we're gonna talk about a lot more of that today.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And so I think all of that's great.
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One of the things that I've known from covering networking over a long time is that the network engineering team tends to be uh a lot more practical, they tend to be a lot more cautious.
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Um, a lot of them are still very CLI centric, especially that older group that's starting to age out.
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I'm wondering what you're seeing in terms of getting these network engineers over that time to comfort with AI, and what actually helps those experienced engineers be able to adopt the AI uh without feeling like they're giving up control?
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Uh, this is a great question.
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I'm happy to jump in on this one.
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Um so I agree with you.
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Um, network engineers that I've known all my life uh definitely fit into that practical and cautious um uh bucket.
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Um, but I will say this network engineers, by their nature, are also curious and they love to experiment.
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Um uh most of the engineers that I work with that I know, they have a lab at home.
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They have technology that they're constantly experimenting with.
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There's always some new tool or some interest that they're starting to drive into or try to understand.
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Uh, and so I think for us, from a learning perspective and from a skills enabler perspective, we want to be able to build on that natural tendency of network engineers to look for the practical, to look for the um the experiential.
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And so for us to really drive that time to comfort, it's not just a matter of updating our certifications, which we have to list AI inside of those skill sets that we want to see in network engineering.
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It's also being able to update our training and to be able to provide those opportunities to make it real.
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Um, and I think that that's one of the things that, for example, a lot of Cisco executives have done at Cisco Live.
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You know, whenever we're doing things now or announcing things, there's always an accompanied live demo to really make it real.
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And I think that's what network engineers want to see.
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And so for us, we've really expanded a lot of tutorials, for example, on Cisco U that really show those real use cases of where you can apply AI, not just look at it conceptually or theoretically, but at that practical application level.
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And that's really that bridge into time to comfort.
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And then showing those exact same things as here's where you can experiment safely with that in your neck of the woods, in your network.
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And so where we can show those opportunities and show those gains, I think are important.
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And then to also then say, not only can you do these things by doing this, just like we did with automation training, for example, we can now unlock you to be able to do other things, like think about stuff at an architectural level, start to untie knots from a design perspective and using AI to be able to do that.
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But it always comes back to for network engineers, make it real for me.
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And that's a thing that we really try to do in the training and uh connecting it to the certifications.
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Yeah, I think that's um a lot of the engineers must be from Missouri, right?
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The show me state.
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Totally.
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They want to be able to see it happen.
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And I think that the other important part to that, though, is that their jobs are on the line, right?
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When they're doing this.
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So their ability to trust something, they'll trust it, but they need to verify it.
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And like you said, a big part of that is you being able to demonstrate and show them how things work in that AI model, what the results are.
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And I know in a lot of the technology Cisco's brought forth, there's a lot of transparency as well.
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So they're able to follow the steps that the AI is taking so that it they can validate it and feel comfortable with it.
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So I think that's um, yeah, I think that's something that's going to continue to progress as um as the technology evolves, and we'll be seeing more and more of that.
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Absolutely.
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So, Parr, I wanted to go back to you because I know that Cisco uh recently brought Networking Academy learning and certifications together under the Learn with Cisco umbrella.
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Um, could you talk a little bit about that, what problems you were trying to solve, what you're trying to accomplish by having everything together?
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It it wasn't a particular problem.
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We we had multiple programs addressing the entry level all the way up to that expert level.
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But when we formed uh Learn with Cisco, we were building on the idea that the way to empower individuals through technology uh was also to make sure that they had easy access to education.
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And it it really was more of a nod to the pace of innovation that is taking place right now and how it is underpinned, uh supported by skills.
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And in the world of AI, we're all learning.
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We are all learning this together.
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And so we knew that it wasn't just that entry level that was going to need the literacy, that learning was going to be a continuum and constant.
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And so bringing these programs together enabled us to make a lot more connection points.
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It enables us to truly meet our community uh where they are.
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Some people may already be a little more advanced with AI, others are brand new and beginners.
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So really providing a multidisciplined, multifaceted approach to do that.
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And of course, we are meeting all of these people and being able to not only teach them through uh instructor-led courses, but also through our e-digital learning like Cisco U.
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But I think something that makes our program so truly unique is the vibrant community of individuals that want to learn together, that share support, share informal sorts of mentorships.
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So it's it really was a natural synergy to bring these two things together to continue to drive that impact.
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You know, NetAcademy has to date uh trained 28 million individuals.
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And we know it's impactful because 96 percent of those students attribute going through Net Academy uh with being successful in their next opportunity and job opportunities.
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In fact, I heard a data point the other day uh in the last two years, 23% of our CCIEs, uh recent CCIEs in the last two years actually started in NetAcademy.
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And so that is a tremendous amount of synergy that you're seeing.
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We're also able to now address the broader literacy around AI through these programs.
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And of, and of course, you know, keeping our certifications very germane, very industry leading, and the trust in those certifications is so critical.
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Yeah.
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If I could even dig in a little bit more on Parr's answer, that that holistic approach is what makes all of this great.
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You know, you were talking about the veteran network engineers.
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Um uh just as just as our new uh, you know, as Par pointed out, those new CCIEs, so many of them started at um at AnetiCad.
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Um, what's also been great is by being able to pull together all of these forces, um we've been able to unlock things like working with our veteran network community and being able to provide them opportunities to give back to the networking academies and to actually help build that next generation.
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Um, really, that power of the community that Parr was talking about is there.
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Um likewise, being able to also pull together all of these curricula into holistic learning journeys is also great.
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I think anybody that's building learning journeys today, especially in this AI world, recognizes that you have to have multiple entry points and multiple exit points.
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And now we're able to plan for all of that.
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So even with AI, if you're looking for that AI literacy, as Parr was pointing out, you're going to netacad.com.
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You're able to learn about the introduction to modern AI, how to apply it in your everyday.
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As you want to build up those professional skills, we now have the hooks into things in Cisco U, where you can build up those technical practitioner certifications that I know we're going to be talking about.
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Uh, if you want to take that even further, you can find how to build not just AI with your job, but build AI networks and then even take that next step and get certified.
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So having these worlds come together for us and for our community, I think also just really connects that learning journey from end to end.
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And it's exciting to see so many people go through it.
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In fact, I have a member of my own team uh who started in a neticad, uh, got Cisco certified, and is now building the programs that we have people in.
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So it's great.
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Yeah, that's that's a great example.
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One of the things that that came out in your answers that I wanted to highlight was that so many times organizations, companies in particular, are looking at these certifications as what the value is going to be to the company and how it's going to help the company progress.
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But one of the things I really like when I when I have conversations about these learning programs and the certifications is also the personal value that's achieved.
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Whether you had mentioned some of those stats about, you know, coming out of the network academy, you know, going on to get jobs in the industry, getting their sort of technical certifications and things like that.
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There's so many people, and these are some of the ones that are starting to retire now, are the ones who've made a whole career off being a CCIE and getting that certification and building on it.
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So a lot of great benefits for both not only the organizations that they work for, but for the individual individuals themselves that go through these these learning programs.
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That's exactly right.
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And we, you know, part of our core mission is making sure that that trust uh and that value is double-sided.
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And I I have to tell you, I've I've yet to be in another organization that has so much dedication towards accomplishing that mission.
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And they wake up every day uh excited about the value that they're bringing to our instructors who are teaching students and helping them change their lives, to our instructors and our ecosystem of partners that are also scaling out our learning.
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It it's something that we hold very dear.
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You know, you you mentioned the employer side.
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Another statistic uh that that we have uh looked at is according to Lightcast data, where uh network engineer job postings are requiring a specific industry certification, and 77% of those Cisco certifications are specified.
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So, you know, we we look at this from we've you know upskilled, we've created the industry skills that are needed for networking and beyond, and we're gonna continue to do that.
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I think that's that's great.
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It's it's it's that's a great stat to be able to highlight as well for for people thinking about getting into this uh and where to go to get your skills training from.
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Um Ryan, you talked about you know how you're changing how you're doing the training, right?
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Being able to provide the demo, showing it's real.
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Um, also, I think in our conversations previously, you've talked about moving away from that rote memorization and trying to tilt the training more towards applied skills, critical thinking, um, especially as AI is going to be able to offload a lot of those mundane tasks.
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Wondering how that's changing how you design uh your curricula and your certifications.
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Yeah, um, this is a great topic.
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And it's one that, again, anybody that's in the work of skill building is recognizing some of where this change is going.
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And in fact, I would say that PAR has really been uh driving uh as a leader for our entire organization this goal of how do we bring in more practice-based experience, how do we bring in more scenario-based experience?
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Um, and it's really some of this is being driven by AI, but it's really kind of the changing nature of expected skilling.
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Um, you know, you think about how um when we when we're trying to build up skills, one of the first things that we try to do is uh find those experiences to apply them.
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So not just have that time in education or have that time um working with a mentor, but really have those opportunities to apply the skill.
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And so for us, we've been really focused on bringing all of these scenario-based or practice-based opportunities directly into our training.
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So that way, as you're learning a concept, it's like concept theory practice.
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Um, I think that everyone who uh leverages our Cisco learning knows we really lean into the labs.
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We really lean into those practical experiences.
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And that is something that we are accelerating.
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Uh, being able to provide people those hands-on opportunities uh and safe, and safe opportunities, I'll also say, so that way they can experiment safely uh to really see those skills in action.
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What's more is we that can't just be on the learning side.
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That also has to be on the skill verification side.
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And so uh one of the things that we've started to do more and more in our exams across all levels is find those opportunities where we can also have those practical skill experiences tested with scenarios, with uh, you know, walk me through how you would solve this.
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Uh so that way we're not just testing someone's ability to remember a lot of the things.
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Again, that's critical.
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You got to have that knowledge, but then to be able to also verify their applied skills.
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This also fits with where the industry is going, if I could say, where you have a lot of network engineers that when they're applying for jobs or they're coming into a new uh company that they want to work with, they're getting tested, they're getting scenarios, they're getting labs already to say, hey, you know, we want to make sure that you have the skills that you say you have.
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And that's where I feel like if we can do that, and you can say if we can do that in the certification process, then we're letting companies all over the world know you can hire a Cisco certified individual and know that their skills have been tested, not just their knowledge of the network, but their ability to apply that knowledge in their task.
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Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.
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And as part of that, in that transition, do you see that really evolving what that certification means from today versus what it was 20 years ago?
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Where maybe that was here's the written test, take it, and now it's that practical skill, that hands-on that has to be demonstrated in order to achieve those certifications.
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I, you know, it's it's interesting.
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The Cisco certification program has been around for more than three decades.
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And so the certification program has always been changing to meet the needs of the industries that we're serving as well as our community.
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Um, and so that wasn't just a matter of keeping those certs and those line above uh updated.
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We've been always kind of pushing that edge of piloting things like um uh you know, the CCIE exam is well known for its ability to not just test your knowledge, but to also then have that intense lab experience, an eight hour lab experience.
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Experience where we are testing your skills.
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That type of innovation has really been something that we keep kind of chasing down.
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So even with this change, I would say this has just been a part of our process of always making sure that those certifications, that the topics don't just stay relevant, but the methods and how we're testing the skills stay relevant.
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And again, I think this is what the industry wants.
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I think this is where when you're looking to have skills plus technologies, equal outcomes, that you want to ensure that those people have not only the knowledge, but the applied skills.
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So I think this has been a natural evolution for us.
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Yeah.
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I'll also add, you know, the CCIE, that's why it is such a gold standard.
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It it the difference is it had taken years to obtain that kind of experience.
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Um, you know, just hearing how people have to prepare and the mental stamina and the physical stamina and how the community supports one another going into there, it would sound like they're going in to play the Super Bowl.
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Um, I think what's also changing in the industry is the pace at which technology is evolving and changing.
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There is also a need to accelerate that time to expertise.
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And so when we talk about reshaping our curriculum so that it is project-based, that the the people that are feeling that probably more than others, where there's more pressure, is at that entry level.
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Because a lot of those tasks are being automated.
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And so a traditional entry-level individual, you would get a lot of that experience by doing.
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Well, now that shift has changed.
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And so you need to come in with these practical skills.
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So we are redesigning that curriculum to be more project-based throughout, as uh Ryan pointed out, but we were actually also just um accredited with uh acknowledgement in a uh world economic white paper for the way we are doing it to specifically address that entry level in our NetAcademy uh data science with Python course, because it is that new way of looking at getting those practical skills, that that experience, if you will.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:28.799
Excellent.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:36.799
That's and that's great to hear you're being recognized for it so that others can emulate what you're doing and try and uplift the the entire sector.
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:44.720
You know, and it is you mentioned how exciting it is right now, and I couldn't agree more, which which ties back to how we started with hey, there's a whole bunch of people thinking about retiring.
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:50.640
And when you think about it, those are the that was the last time networking was really, really cool was the internet boom.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:25:10.079
And now those people who've grown up with the internet are now getting to see this massive transition to AI as they as they sail off into the sunset, but it provides an awesome opportunity for people who are coming into the workforce who are entering it during this time because of the distributed nature of these modern networks and these modern AI environments.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:17.279
The network is cool again, and you're helping them understand how to make it even cooler with all the skills and the learnings that you're bringing together.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:21.440
So, Parr, Ryan, thank you so much for joining me today.
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:22.160
Thank you.
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:22.880
Thank you.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.319
And I want to thank everyone for watching this as well.
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:33.359
For more information uh on Learn with Cisco and Cisco Networking Academy, make sure you check out Cisco's website.
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:37.519
And as always, thank you for watching this Analyst Angle on theCUBE.
00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:14.960
Hi, I'm Bob La Liberté with theCUBE Research, and welcome to this analyst angle on reskilling the network workforce for an AI-driven era.
00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:23.600
Now, today we're talking about one of the most pressing and often least discussed challenges in enterprise networking, that being people and skills.
00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:34.960
As AI reshapes how networks are designed and operated, we're also facing a major generational shift in the workforce with a significant portion of experienced network professionals approaching retirement.
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:52.079
So joining me to unpack what this really means and how Cisco is thinking about reskilling at scale are Par Marat, the VP of Learn with Cisco, and Ryan Rose, Director of Skills and Certifications Product Management, Learn with Cisco.
00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:56.079
Well, it's great to have two CUBE alumni joining me for this video.
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And we've got a lot of ground to cover.
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So why don't we get started?
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Par, for the first question, you know, we keep hearing that a large percentage of network operations talent could retire in the next five years.
00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:14.159
Now, I guess this also happens at the same time where AI is fundamentally changing operations.
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So from your perspective, you know, what's the real issue here?
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Is this a talent shortage, skill shift, or is it going to be both?
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Uh it's a both and.
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So even before AI, there was significant pressure and a skill gap and a talent shortage.
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Um, but this is where it gets very critical.
00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:38.000
Um you're spot on.
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I mean, according to the uh Bureau of Labor Statistics, there is a high concentration of what you know we can refer to as early gen engineers.
00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:52.239
And these were the individuals who really built the original enterprise backbone.
00:01:52.480 --> 00:02:11.439
And, you know, when you think about it, over the last 30 years, we together have gone through the age of the internet, uh, the age of mobile, and the age of cloud, to where we are now living in a world literally woven together by these interconnected networks.
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:12.800
And it's complex.
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Now, at the same time, because of AI, the demand on the network has never been higher and it's increasing.
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Every digital interaction happens on the network.
00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:44.879
And a lot has, you know, evolved over that period of time, starting with, you know, one of the programs that uh Ryan and I both were on and actually spoke about on theCUBE in the past, and that was a DevNet, where we started how do we start to build skills around automation?
00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:56.080
And so we started that skill shift, but it's even more pressing now with network automation as a need for the modernizing these networks, as well as AI ops.
00:02:56.240 --> 00:03:03.360
So it's not just about the uh aging out, if you will, but it's also about the efficiency.
00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:13.759
It's about capturing the logic of these complex networks so that we can have that business continuity and be safe and reliable going forward.
00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:30.400
Um when we start to look at this too, um, it is it's it is as par said, it's that um yes and uh it's both and uh it's it's because of an intersection between skill readiness and network readiness.
00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:42.080
Like when you, you know, as you pointed out, like AI is fundamentally changing operations, and you start having a lot of organizations all over the world thinking of the network as an enabler.
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To Parr's point about how with these demands, there are a bunch of new demands on the network.
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But there's also all of these advancements that are happening on the network, whether it's advancements in things like um, you know, NetOps and AI ops, or even uh literal technology like Wi-Fi 7.
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And so that is actually opening up a lot of opportunities as far as the need for skilled network engineers.
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It's just that the changing nature of the expectations of those skills is the thing that is uh really widening that horizon of all of these engineers that, as we look at the people that have been building the networks for the last 30 years and those that will build the networks for the next 30 years, um, uh those expectations of what they know is also then changing because of those demands from AI and because of that new technology that's also coming out every single day.
00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:37.839
Yeah.
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The the last thing I'd say, and I'm sorry, Bob, I cut you off.
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Go ahead.
00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:43.199
No, go ahead.
00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:54.000
Yeah, I I I I'd also say that that you know the skill shifts are happening within each of those domains as well.
00:04:54.160 --> 00:05:04.079
Uh, going from the traditional builder style from where you're configuring to having to look at this as more from a systems standpoint.
00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:08.720
So the foundational skills are still critical.
00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:23.839
Um if anything, it's a broader skill set in order to make sure that these skills are there to design and to operate and to oversee, uh especially in these AI workload-intensive networks.
00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:29.439
So the good news is uh we are addressing that as we have in the past.
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We're addressing it and have been addressing it.
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And we're gonna talk about a lot more of that today.
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Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.279
And so I think all of that's great.
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One of the things that I've known from covering networking over a long time is that the network engineering team tends to be uh a lot more practical, they tend to be a lot more cautious.
00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:56.879
Um, a lot of them are still very CLI centric, especially that older group that's starting to age out.
00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:14.000
I'm wondering what you're seeing in terms of getting these network engineers over that time to comfort with AI, and what actually helps those experienced engineers be able to adopt the AI uh without feeling like they're giving up control?
00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:16.399
Uh, this is a great question.
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.160
I'm happy to jump in on this one.
00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:20.560
Um so I agree with you.
00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:27.680
Um, network engineers that I've known all my life uh definitely fit into that practical and cautious um uh bucket.
00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:34.160
Um, but I will say this network engineers, by their nature, are also curious and they love to experiment.
00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:39.759
Um uh most of the engineers that I work with that I know, they have a lab at home.
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They have technology that they're constantly experimenting with.
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There's always some new tool or some interest that they're starting to drive into or try to understand.
00:06:51.120 --> 00:07:08.240
Uh, and so I think for us, from a learning perspective and from a skills enabler perspective, we want to be able to build on that natural tendency of network engineers to look for the practical, to look for the um the experiential.
00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:20.720
And so for us to really drive that time to comfort, it's not just a matter of updating our certifications, which we have to list AI inside of those skill sets that we want to see in network engineering.
00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:27.199
It's also being able to update our training and to be able to provide those opportunities to make it real.
00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:32.480
Um, and I think that that's one of the things that, for example, a lot of Cisco executives have done at Cisco Live.
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You know, whenever we're doing things now or announcing things, there's always an accompanied live demo to really make it real.
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And I think that's what network engineers want to see.
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And so for us, we've really expanded a lot of tutorials, for example, on Cisco U that really show those real use cases of where you can apply AI, not just look at it conceptually or theoretically, but at that practical application level.
00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:03.519
And that's really that bridge into time to comfort.
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And then showing those exact same things as here's where you can experiment safely with that in your neck of the woods, in your network.
00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:18.319
And so where we can show those opportunities and show those gains, I think are important.
00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:39.840
And then to also then say, not only can you do these things by doing this, just like we did with automation training, for example, we can now unlock you to be able to do other things, like think about stuff at an architectural level, start to untie knots from a design perspective and using AI to be able to do that.
00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.840
But it always comes back to for network engineers, make it real for me.
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And that's a thing that we really try to do in the training and uh connecting it to the certifications.
00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:55.279
Yeah, I think that's um a lot of the engineers must be from Missouri, right?
00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:56.320
The show me state.
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Totally.
00:08:57.919 --> 00:08:59.360
They want to be able to see it happen.
00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:03.279
And I think that the other important part to that, though, is that their jobs are on the line, right?
00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:04.320
When they're doing this.
00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:08.320
So their ability to trust something, they'll trust it, but they need to verify it.
00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:16.000
And like you said, a big part of that is you being able to demonstrate and show them how things work in that AI model, what the results are.
00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.559
And I know in a lot of the technology Cisco's brought forth, there's a lot of transparency as well.
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:27.519
So they're able to follow the steps that the AI is taking so that it they can validate it and feel comfortable with it.
00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:36.559
So I think that's um, yeah, I think that's something that's going to continue to progress as um as the technology evolves, and we'll be seeing more and more of that.
00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:37.840
Absolutely.
00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:50.639
So, Parr, I wanted to go back to you because I know that Cisco uh recently brought Networking Academy learning and certifications together under the Learn with Cisco umbrella.
00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:57.600
Um, could you talk a little bit about that, what problems you were trying to solve, what you're trying to accomplish by having everything together?
00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:01.440
It it wasn't a particular problem.
00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:09.440
We we had multiple programs addressing the entry level all the way up to that expert level.
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:27.840
But when we formed uh Learn with Cisco, we were building on the idea that the way to empower individuals through technology uh was also to make sure that they had easy access to education.
00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:39.279
And it it really was more of a nod to the pace of innovation that is taking place right now and how it is underpinned, uh supported by skills.
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And in the world of AI, we're all learning.
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We are all learning this together.
00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:54.720
And so we knew that it wasn't just that entry level that was going to need the literacy, that learning was going to be a continuum and constant.
00:10:55.039 --> 00:11:01.039
And so bringing these programs together enabled us to make a lot more connection points.
00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:07.039
It enables us to truly meet our community uh where they are.
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:13.600
Some people may already be a little more advanced with AI, others are brand new and beginners.
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:20.080
So really providing a multidisciplined, multifaceted approach to do that.
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:33.519
And of course, we are meeting all of these people and being able to not only teach them through uh instructor-led courses, but also through our e-digital learning like Cisco U.
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:48.399
But I think something that makes our program so truly unique is the vibrant community of individuals that want to learn together, that share support, share informal sorts of mentorships.
00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:57.440
So it's it really was a natural synergy to bring these two things together to continue to drive that impact.
00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:04.639
You know, NetAcademy has to date uh trained 28 million individuals.
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:19.039
And we know it's impactful because 96 percent of those students attribute going through Net Academy uh with being successful in their next opportunity and job opportunities.
00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:33.120
In fact, I heard a data point the other day uh in the last two years, 23% of our CCIEs, uh recent CCIEs in the last two years actually started in NetAcademy.
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:38.480
And so that is a tremendous amount of synergy that you're seeing.
00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:46.399
We're also able to now address the broader literacy around AI through these programs.
00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:57.840
And of, and of course, you know, keeping our certifications very germane, very industry leading, and the trust in those certifications is so critical.
00:12:58.559 --> 00:12:58.879
Yeah.
00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:05.360
If I could even dig in a little bit more on Parr's answer, that that holistic approach is what makes all of this great.
00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:08.000
You know, you were talking about the veteran network engineers.
00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:18.720
Um uh just as just as our new uh, you know, as Par pointed out, those new CCIEs, so many of them started at um at AnetiCad.
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:37.440
Um, what's also been great is by being able to pull together all of these forces, um we've been able to unlock things like working with our veteran network community and being able to provide them opportunities to give back to the networking academies and to actually help build that next generation.
00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:42.080
Um, really, that power of the community that Parr was talking about is there.
00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:50.159
Um likewise, being able to also pull together all of these curricula into holistic learning journeys is also great.
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:58.720
I think anybody that's building learning journeys today, especially in this AI world, recognizes that you have to have multiple entry points and multiple exit points.
00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.039
And now we're able to plan for all of that.
00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:07.519
So even with AI, if you're looking for that AI literacy, as Parr was pointing out, you're going to netacad.com.
00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.519
You're able to learn about the introduction to modern AI, how to apply it in your everyday.
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:21.919
As you want to build up those professional skills, we now have the hooks into things in Cisco U, where you can build up those technical practitioner certifications that I know we're going to be talking about.
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:33.440
Uh, if you want to take that even further, you can find how to build not just AI with your job, but build AI networks and then even take that next step and get certified.
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:42.240
So having these worlds come together for us and for our community, I think also just really connects that learning journey from end to end.
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.120
And it's exciting to see so many people go through it.
00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:53.200
In fact, I have a member of my own team uh who started in a neticad, uh, got Cisco certified, and is now building the programs that we have people in.
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:54.480
So it's great.
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:56.240
Yeah, that's that's a great example.
00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:10.480
One of the things that that came out in your answers that I wanted to highlight was that so many times organizations, companies in particular, are looking at these certifications as what the value is going to be to the company and how it's going to help the company progress.
00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:19.360
But one of the things I really like when I when I have conversations about these learning programs and the certifications is also the personal value that's achieved.
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:28.320
Whether you had mentioned some of those stats about, you know, coming out of the network academy, you know, going on to get jobs in the industry, getting their sort of technical certifications and things like that.
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:38.159
There's so many people, and these are some of the ones that are starting to retire now, are the ones who've made a whole career off being a CCIE and getting that certification and building on it.
00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:49.360
So a lot of great benefits for both not only the organizations that they work for, but for the individual individuals themselves that go through these these learning programs.
00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:50.960
That's exactly right.
00:15:51.200 --> 00:16:01.759
And we, you know, part of our core mission is making sure that that trust uh and that value is double-sided.
00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:12.720
And I I have to tell you, I've I've yet to be in another organization that has so much dedication towards accomplishing that mission.
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:28.960
And they wake up every day uh excited about the value that they're bringing to our instructors who are teaching students and helping them change their lives, to our instructors and our ecosystem of partners that are also scaling out our learning.
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:32.240
It it's something that we hold very dear.
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.240
You know, you you mentioned the employer side.
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:57.200
Another statistic uh that that we have uh looked at is according to Lightcast data, where uh network engineer job postings are requiring a specific industry certification, and 77% of those Cisco certifications are specified.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:09.920
So, you know, we we look at this from we've you know upskilled, we've created the industry skills that are needed for networking and beyond, and we're gonna continue to do that.
00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:11.839
I think that's that's great.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:20.480
It's it's it's that's a great stat to be able to highlight as well for for people thinking about getting into this uh and where to go to get your skills training from.
00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:27.359
Um Ryan, you talked about you know how you're changing how you're doing the training, right?
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:30.400
Being able to provide the demo, showing it's real.
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:49.039
Um, also, I think in our conversations previously, you've talked about moving away from that rote memorization and trying to tilt the training more towards applied skills, critical thinking, um, especially as AI is going to be able to offload a lot of those mundane tasks.
00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:55.680
Wondering how that's changing how you design uh your curricula and your certifications.
00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.880
Yeah, um, this is a great topic.
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:06.160
And it's one that, again, anybody that's in the work of skill building is recognizing some of where this change is going.
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:19.839
And in fact, I would say that PAR has really been uh driving uh as a leader for our entire organization this goal of how do we bring in more practice-based experience, how do we bring in more scenario-based experience?
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:27.920
Um, and it's really some of this is being driven by AI, but it's really kind of the changing nature of expected skilling.
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:39.279
Um, you know, you think about how um when we when we're trying to build up skills, one of the first things that we try to do is uh find those experiences to apply them.
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:49.839
So not just have that time in education or have that time um working with a mentor, but really have those opportunities to apply the skill.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:19:01.440
And so for us, we've been really focused on bringing all of these scenario-based or practice-based opportunities directly into our training.
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:06.880
So that way, as you're learning a concept, it's like concept theory practice.
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:13.519
Um, I think that everyone who uh leverages our Cisco learning knows we really lean into the labs.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.559
We really lean into those practical experiences.
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:20.000
And that is something that we are accelerating.
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:33.200
Uh, being able to provide people those hands-on opportunities uh and safe, and safe opportunities, I'll also say, so that way they can experiment safely uh to really see those skills in action.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:37.920
What's more is we that can't just be on the learning side.
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.960
That also has to be on the skill verification side.
00:19:41.119 --> 00:20:00.319
And so uh one of the things that we've started to do more and more in our exams across all levels is find those opportunities where we can also have those practical skill experiences tested with scenarios, with uh, you know, walk me through how you would solve this.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:05.839
Uh so that way we're not just testing someone's ability to remember a lot of the things.
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.799
Again, that's critical.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:13.519
You got to have that knowledge, but then to be able to also verify their applied skills.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:33.200
This also fits with where the industry is going, if I could say, where you have a lot of network engineers that when they're applying for jobs or they're coming into a new uh company that they want to work with, they're getting tested, they're getting scenarios, they're getting labs already to say, hey, you know, we want to make sure that you have the skills that you say you have.
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:55.359
And that's where I feel like if we can do that, and you can say if we can do that in the certification process, then we're letting companies all over the world know you can hire a Cisco certified individual and know that their skills have been tested, not just their knowledge of the network, but their ability to apply that knowledge in their task.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:58.400
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:09.200
And as part of that, in that transition, do you see that really evolving what that certification means from today versus what it was 20 years ago?
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:20.319
Where maybe that was here's the written test, take it, and now it's that practical skill, that hands-on that has to be demonstrated in order to achieve those certifications.
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.200
I, you know, it's it's interesting.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:28.000
The Cisco certification program has been around for more than three decades.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:36.400
And so the certification program has always been changing to meet the needs of the industries that we're serving as well as our community.
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:41.359
Um, and so that wasn't just a matter of keeping those certs and those line above uh updated.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:59.759
We've been always kind of pushing that edge of piloting things like um uh you know, the CCIE exam is well known for its ability to not just test your knowledge, but to also then have that intense lab experience, an eight hour lab experience.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.640
Experience where we are testing your skills.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:08.480
That type of innovation has really been something that we keep kind of chasing down.
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:22.559
So even with this change, I would say this has just been a part of our process of always making sure that those certifications, that the topics don't just stay relevant, but the methods and how we're testing the skills stay relevant.
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:25.119
And again, I think this is what the industry wants.
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:37.680
I think this is where when you're looking to have skills plus technologies, equal outcomes, that you want to ensure that those people have not only the knowledge, but the applied skills.
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:40.960
So I think this has been a natural evolution for us.
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:41.599
Yeah.
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:47.839
I'll also add, you know, the CCIE, that's why it is such a gold standard.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:54.880
It it the difference is it had taken years to obtain that kind of experience.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:23:06.799
Um, you know, just hearing how people have to prepare and the mental stamina and the physical stamina and how the community supports one another going into there, it would sound like they're going in to play the Super Bowl.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:15.839
Um, I think what's also changing in the industry is the pace at which technology is evolving and changing.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:22.000
There is also a need to accelerate that time to expertise.
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:36.559
And so when we talk about reshaping our curriculum so that it is project-based, that the the people that are feeling that probably more than others, where there's more pressure, is at that entry level.
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:40.559
Because a lot of those tasks are being automated.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:47.119
And so a traditional entry-level individual, you would get a lot of that experience by doing.
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:49.920
Well, now that shift has changed.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.599
And so you need to come in with these practical skills.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:24:27.519
So we are redesigning that curriculum to be more project-based throughout, as uh Ryan pointed out, but we were actually also just um accredited with uh acknowledgement in a uh world economic white paper for the way we are doing it to specifically address that entry level in our NetAcademy uh data science with Python course, because it is that new way of looking at getting those practical skills, that that experience, if you will.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:28.799
Excellent.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:36.799
That's and that's great to hear you're being recognized for it so that others can emulate what you're doing and try and uplift the the entire sector.
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:44.720
You know, and it is you mentioned how exciting it is right now, and I couldn't agree more, which which ties back to how we started with hey, there's a whole bunch of people thinking about retiring.
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:50.640
And when you think about it, those are the that was the last time networking was really, really cool was the internet boom.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:25:10.079
And now those people who've grown up with the internet are now getting to see this massive transition to AI as they as they sail off into the sunset, but it provides an awesome opportunity for people who are coming into the workforce who are entering it during this time because of the distributed nature of these modern networks and these modern AI environments.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:17.279
The network is cool again, and you're helping them understand how to make it even cooler with all the skills and the learnings that you're bringing together.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:21.440
So, Parr, Ryan, thank you so much for joining me today.
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:22.160
Thank you.
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:22.880
Thank you.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.319
And I want to thank everyone for watching this as well.
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:33.359
For more information uh on Learn with Cisco and Cisco Networking Academy, make sure you check out Cisco's website.
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:37.519
And as always, thank you for watching this Analyst Angle on theCUBE.
