WEBVTT
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:06.160
I saw some statistic that over a ten year period more people have died from opioids than in the Vietnam conflict.
00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:11.839
I mean, it it's like they're it's just horrendous the the amount of lives that are being lost on a regular basis by it.
00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:12.320
Yeah.
00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:14.160
And it relates to overdose.
00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:18.559
You know, it it isn't even like alcohol long-term progressive things.
00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:19.679
It it's overdose.
00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:31.920
And I think that's why this project, this film, the hotline really stood out, is because there's the moment of life and death in opioid use is seconds to minutes.
00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:51.520
Where if you are someone who frequently uses, or you're someone who one time is using, or you're someone who has someone's handed you a pill that they say is sex, like clonopin or something, it could be laced with fentanyl and you could overdose, and and within minutes, you could die.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:52.880
Nerdy.
00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:54.560
Nostalgic.
00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:56.479
Madly inappropriate.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:58.159
This is nerd hat.
00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:00.000
Nerd hat, I'm with late.
00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:02.560
Why am I robot?
00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:13.519
Nerdheaders, if you've been with us for a while, you know that we love to have fun on our podcast.
00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:19.519
But occasionally we do cover a film that is more serious.
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:21.200
This is no exception.
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:27.680
Hotline deals with opioid addiction, fentanyl, overdose, and death.
00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:33.439
So if those subjects are triggering for you, I recommend skipping this episode.
00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:40.719
If you or someone you know is struggling with opioid addiction, help is available.
00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.000
Here are two resources which the filmmakers recommend.
00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:49.200
First is SAMHSA.gov, that's S A-M-H-S-A.gov.
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:52.000
That is kind of an all-in-one resource.
00:01:52.159 --> 00:02:01.040
You can look up your state, your county within the United States of America, and find local resources to help you in battling addiction.
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:06.319
The other is the Never Use Alone Hotline, which is featured in the documentary itself.
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:10.400
That number is 1-877-696-1996.
00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:15.199
That's 1-877-696-1996.
00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:18.000
Please reach out if you need help.
00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:20.960
Now on to today's episode.
00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:23.599
All right, nerdheaders.
00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:32.479
I am here with Ricky Stern and Jesse Sweet, who are the co-directors of the short documentary, Hotline.
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.400
So that recently appeared you coming on to talk about your film.
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:36.800
Thank you.
00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:37.599
Thanks for having us.
00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:38.240
Absolutely.
00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:44.319
So Ricky, I I know this was not your first time in Winston-Salem, but uh Jesse, had you been to Winston before?
00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:46.800
This was my first time at Riverrun.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:51.199
I'd been to uh Winston-Salem like documentaries you're filming all the time.
00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:53.919
So I've done some filming at Wake Forest with some professors in the past.
00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:54.639
Nice.
00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:54.960
Okay.
00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:55.360
Yeah.
00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:57.199
But this is my first time at the festival.
00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.319
So well, Jill, Ricky, had you been to River Run before?
00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:02.319
I had not been to River Run.
00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.879
And in fact, I really haven't been to Winston-Salem for many years.
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:07.599
But you're right.
00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:15.360
I when I filmed the trials of Daryl Hunt, we were filming in the 90s or then when Daryl was getting released early 2000s.
00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:19.120
But I haven't really been back in almost 15 or so years.
00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:20.800
And it's really changed.
00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:28.000
It's this happening, funky little cool, you know, coffee bars and all that kind of stuff all over the place.
00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:31.199
I just kept saying to Jesse, I was like, oh my God, this is like, look at that.
00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:34.639
They, you know, there's a little French pastry, you know, pastry shop here.
00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:36.560
It just radically changed.
00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:39.840
Um, but I'd never been to the festival and the heard a lot about it.
00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:42.240
And the festival is spectacular.
00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:44.879
It's really, I was so impressed with the audience.
00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.800
People are really coming to the screenings.
00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:48.639
The venues are really beautiful.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:49.840
It was a great experience.
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:50.560
Awesome.
00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.039
Well, welcome and welcome again, so to speak.
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.039
So I know they were glad to have you all.
00:03:55.120 --> 00:04:00.400
And yeah, it's just I've been really impressed with the staff, uh, with the new executive director, Michael.
00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:03.599
So yeah, it's really cool things, I think, ahead for Riverrun.
00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:17.839
So was there, I know for the two of you, at least from what I saw on your IMDB listings, pretty much your entire careers have been kind of in the documentary filmmaking, whether it be features or or TV, is that accurate for the most part?
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:24.879
Or I have also worked a little bit in scripted very early in my career, and I took a time.
00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:27.199
I wrote some children's books for a while.
00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:28.160
Oh, nice.
00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:29.199
Yeah, animated.
00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:30.319
I'm illustrated.
00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.279
But mostly for me, it has been a documentary.
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:34.720
Aaron Powell I've mainly been documentary.
00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:38.319
I do some branded things here and there to kind of like fill the gaps.
00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:46.160
And I the one time I actually I did produce one very independent feature film with a lot of North Carolina School of the Arts people.
00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:51.199
So there's a little bit of Nate Meyer and David Gordon Green was an executive producer on it.
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:52.480
It was called Seagirl Run.
00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:54.319
And I Nate Rowan directed it.
00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.800
Jane Ritzo also School of the Arts edited it.
00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:00.800
And that was, I don't know, that was a fun project with uh Adam Scott and Robin Tony.
00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:02.240
Jesse, I didn't even know that.
00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:03.680
I like to keep a couple of things.
00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:05.360
Did you even talk about that?
00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:06.160
I did.
00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:06.480
I know.
00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:06.959
It was a bit?
00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:08.240
Did I remember?
00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:08.879
Did I forget?
00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:09.920
No, I don't think I did.
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:14.000
So majority of your time in that, but obviously filmmaking in general.
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:29.360
And uh the question I like to ask as you were growing up, you know, college age, et cetera, was there a particular film, or maybe it was a TV series, something that grabbed you and made you say, I would like to do that.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:35.040
Like I would like to be a filmmaker, I would like to make these types of films, or was the process more gradual for you?
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:36.480
And you guys can take turns answering that.
00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:37.600
You want to go first, Jesse?
00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:38.800
I'll go about that.
00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:43.279
Because I remember when I was in college, I did a an internship for the Telluride Film Festival.
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:48.720
And I went out there and saw the Errol Morris film Fast Sheep and Out of Control.
00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:49.439
It was that summer.
00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:53.519
And that was like kind of like mind-blowing like documentaries can do that.
00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.639
They're not all polar bears and nature shots.
00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:02.160
It's like they can be apocalyptic and funny and scary and exciting and cinematic.
00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:04.560
And that really was a documentary.
00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:08.560
And I remember being out there and that being like, oh my God, and can you do that for a living?
00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:18.399
And I like that was one where it was just like kind of opened my eyes to like what's possible to do and made me very I don't know if I left the theater and was like, and I'm gonna be a documentary filmmaker.
00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:22.720
But it certainly got me excited about documentaries in a way I hadn't been before.
00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:23.439
It's interesting.
00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:24.240
You know, it's so funny.
00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.480
I was gonna say Errol Maris as well.
00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:37.199
If you if you said films, I mean, I always say for me, the Wizard of Oz was just one of those mind-blowing experiences that I when I first saw it, I was like, is she dreaming?
00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:47.199
Is this like it just brought me into like the fantasy and the everything about it, even now when I see Wizard of Oz, I just can't get every time I watch it, it's something different.
00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:55.759
Anyway, I know that sounds stupid, but but I was gonna say, Errol Morris, because the Temple Grandin documentary about, I think it was called Stairway to Heaven.
00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:57.279
Something like that.
00:06:57.360 --> 00:06:57.519
Yeah.
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:07.199
Something about where she she creates that circular maze for the cows to go through so they don't feel anxiety as they're going to the slaughterhouse.
00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.360
I watched that movie and I was and it was beautiful.
00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.319
And I think I even shot in black and white or whatever it was.
00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:18.000
I just thought same thing, like the this character-driven film, something about that as a documentary.
00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:21.839
And then there's a couple other films of Errol Morris that really struck me.
00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:24.879
But from my background, I I was more doing theater.
00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:42.079
And so what I liked about documentary or and what I tend to try to focus on is character and what motivates someone in the same way you would have an arc of a character in a scripted film or an arc of a character in a play, this narrative arc.
00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.199
I'm always looking for that in the stories that we're telling.
00:07:45.439 --> 00:08:04.800
For me as a woman, getting in coming, you know, getting into film, documentary way back then, was just an easier way into telling stories visually because Hollywood was still very closed off to it was an old boys club and might still be, but you know, it was not even looking for women's directors and things like that.
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:05.360
Okay.
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:11.920
So both he influenced by Errol Morris and displaying my ignorance, I had not heard of him yet.
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:19.519
Now it's possible I may have heard of one of his films, but that's a realm for myself that I need to dive more into documentaries.
00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:21.680
I've been thinking about that more recently, actually.
00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:22.800
So I'll keep that.
00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:29.120
He probably did one of the first, what what do you would call almost true crime in um what was it?
00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:29.519
His one.
00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:30.800
Thin Blue Line.
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:32.000
Thin Blue Line.
00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:32.159
Yeah.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:32.799
Yes.
00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:34.559
1988, I'm seeing here.
00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:35.600
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:53.519
That's what the maybe one to watch first because it really set sort of a a pattern for t a new way of telling a story about I mean it's a a conviction that then he re-examines in this documentary, or I don't know if it was a conviction, I can't even remember, or like an accusation, right?
00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:55.919
Or police bungled maybe on purpose.
00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.559
But anyway, it it it really was before true crime was true crime.
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:04.639
And I I think he would probably not like me to compare it to true crime, but whatever.
00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:10.559
Yeah, I I know so many people are waiting in that pool nowadays, especially in the podcasting world.
00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:11.360
Right.
00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:16.159
And I I noticed, sorry, this is maybe uh it just made me think of it.
00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:20.639
I noticed in looking at Breakthrough Films and just at the about page.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.679
So obviously you both worked there, and I think Ricky, you were involved in founding it, is that correct?
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.519
I started it in 1990, yeah.
00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:34.320
So I noticed that among the many awards that you all have either been nominated for or have won that there were two Peabody Awards.
00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:37.600
And if I'm not mistaken, that's related to radio productions, is it not?
00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:39.039
So have you or am I am I wrong?
00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:42.639
There's Peabody Awards are also for documentaries.
00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.039
They have their own Peabody sections.
00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:45.600
Yeah.
00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:48.000
Well, Jesse and I, so I I did start it.
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:51.600
I worked with a filmmaker named Annie Sundberg on many of my projects.
00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:56.080
And then Jesse and I have worked on many projects, and then he works on things separately.
00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:14.480
It's kind of that type of well, people are doing it all different ways, but for us, I think just having the ability to tell stories when we want to tell them is is really drives us versus starting a company where you're constantly having to, you know, have a lot of overhead and it it's tried to keep it lean and mean so that we could do projects.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:37.360
And and very much like the Hotline, which came up very spontaneously, the our short film about the opioid, opioid crisis, but through this very intimate storytelling through this hotline, we just were able to just go and do it with friends and film it and not have to raise significant funds, which you would if it were a feature, just because there's just at a certain point you're shooting so many days.
00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:47.919
A short, and I think Jesse and I are both sort of trying to get it into in the student body, just like go do a short because it's its own challenge.
00:10:48.080 --> 00:11:00.799
It has its own way of storytelling, just like a short story in some ways, but it allows you to tell the story quicker, faster with less funds up front and can be very effective.
00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:06.080
Now, with that topic, I mean, obviously fentanyl addiction is one that's been in the news.
00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:08.399
I mean, I've certainly heard of it in the news.
00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:12.399
I've not dove that deeply into researching it myself.
00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.759
How did you all come to choose that particular topic?
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:17.360
You said it kind of happened spontaneously.
00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:21.600
Was there someone that you said someone just kind of recommended it or?
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:25.360
I'm gonna let Jesse speak, but I'll just say very briefly.
00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:37.759
I just because it it did come, I I did listen to a radio show, and um the never use alone is this uh um 800 hotline that is run by volunteers.
00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:43.200
And I was listening to this radio program telling the story of it, and it was so moving.
00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:55.600
I tracked down the guy who started it and asked if I could meet him on a Zoom with some of the people, and very quickly they said, Yes, you can come do this, you know, a film, which I knew was going to be a short, a short about it.
00:11:55.759 --> 00:12:08.399
And I personally have lost people to overdose and uh have several family members who are EMTs and encounter overdose very often, and Narcan has saved many people, and mentioned it to Jesse.
00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:14.320
Jesse and I had just finished Nature of the Crime, which is about the parole process for HBO.
00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:16.159
And this is a hard subject.
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.559
And it so I just thought if Jesse were interested, it would be a project to do together.
00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:27.840
It's always nice to have a partner and something that is emotional and tough, and you're entering people's lives in this very difficult time.
00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:31.440
So and then I'll pass it to Jesse to say why he said yes.
00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:50.879
As soon as Ricky shared it with me the concept and sort of told me about the people involved, I was definitely all in because I had directed a couple of years ago part of a Netflix series called The Business of Drugs, which it was a six-part series, and it sort of took almost like a freakonomics look at narcotics and said, There's so much judgment involved.
00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:54.240
What if we like looked at what are the financial decisions that are driving this?
00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:01.279
We think it's like, oh, this underworld, which it is in some ways, but it's also people making rational economic choices based on what's ahead of them.
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:08.960
And what's what's driving the sale of drugs and rise of drugs is no different than what's driving Walmart's stock prices or Amazon's efficiency campaign.
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.799
And so it was a fascinating look into this world, but it was very clinical in a way.
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.559
And you know, while doing it, I did one of my episodes was actually on opioids.
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:25.519
And so I was interacting with people who were using or had used or were in it, but we kind of didn't tell that side of the story, which felt just because of the format, it didn't fit into that.
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:28.960
And it it had been something I'd been interested since then.
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:37.120
Like Ricky, I knew people who had been battling with addiction problems and and felt like that was something that I did want to look at at some point.
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:40.000
And this seemed like a perfect opportunity when Ricky brought it up.
00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:53.919
So I was very sort of, you know, it's having such a devastating impact on our country and the world in general that it feels like one of those things that everyone who can be talking about it should be talking about it because the carnage is just truly horrible.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:14:02.080
And and the way these people in our film are dealing with it, you know, I think we both found inspiring and compassionate and really changing the the paradigm of it.
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:04.320
So I was excited from the second I heard about it.
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:06.480
Yeah, I was um I was not aware.
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:13.679
I saw the statistic and that really stood out to me that it is the leading cause of death for people aged 18 to 44.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.480
Do you know the number of deaths per year?
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.720
I know CDC data maybe is not as reliable as it used to be in recent days.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:28.639
I saw some statistic that like over a 10-year period m more people have died from opioids than the than in the Vietnam conflict.
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:34.639
I mean, it it's like they're it's just horrendous, you know, the the amount of lives that are being lost on a regular basis by it.
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:35.120
Yeah.
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:36.879
And it relates to overdose.
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:41.279
You know, it it isn't even like alcohol long-term progressive things.
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:42.399
It it's overdose.
00:14:42.480 --> 00:15:13.600
And I think that's why this project, this film, the hotline really stood out, is because there's the moment of life and death in opioid use is seconds to minutes, where if you are someone who frequently uses, or you're someone who one time is using, or you're someone who has someone's handed you a pill that they say is X, like clonapin or something, it could be laced with fentanyl and you could overdose and within minutes, you could die.
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:22.080
And so the the thing that was so compelling about this hotline is there's no judgment, there's no effort.
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:29.679
I mean, they will provide resources for people who have substance abuse and who want to try to get off of it, but they're not going to force you.
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:34.799
And what opioid, frequent opioid users say is I would have taken it regardless.
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.879
Like there's you can't convince me in a moment when I'm gonna take a hit.
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:46.720
And so they're just there to say, if you do overdose, we will call a 911 on this national 911 hotline.
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:53.600
We will get a an EMT there, EMS will be called, and hopefully you'll have a second chance.
00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.279
And so that was the thing.
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.519
And the thing about the statistics that it is the leading cause.
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.679
It's the overdosing because there is such an unregulated.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.440
And now I don't know if you you know, but the federal government has just cut hotline funding, federal.
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.159
This does this program doesn't have federal funding.
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:22.559
It's a volunteer, but they've cut all federal funding to hotlines, to harm reduction organizations and to things like needle exchange.
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:33.360
And I think the fear is within community of people who work with people who have this substance issues, is that it you will have higher rates of mortality.
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.960
Aaron Ross Powell I can only imagine, yeah, if there's not as much access to help.
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:45.039
And given the nature of the approach that this particular organization takes, is have they encountered some controversy?
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:52.799
Because I know there's others who I mean, obviously there's some who want to take a more punitive approach to dealing with this and criminalize it.
00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.159
And that just doesn't seem to do any good at the end of the day.
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:00.159
But has there been a lot of um I don't know what the right word?
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:05.680
Have there been complaints that they've had to deal with, like from local authorities or things because of their approach?
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.559
Have they been maybe accused of being enablers at times?
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:09.119
Yeah.
00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:10.799
Jesse, I think you want to answer.
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:30.640
Yeah, I mean I think we I think you see there's a pendulum that swings back and forth between are we going to treat addiction as, like you said, a punitive, uh, a criminal offense that should be dealt with with the criminal justice system, or is a medical issue that should be dealt with by how do you help keep people alive to get them to a point where they can make a decision to stop using.
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:41.839
And I think a while ago, certainly like Reagan era, like all in on war on crime, I think there was a moment where there was more openness to this is a medical issue, how can we give people help?
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.000
And I think it feels like it's swinging back.
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:51.119
And because of that, like I don't want to say that Ricky might know more than me, that they've had someone like try to shut them down or anything.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:57.440
I think there's just a stigma that they confront kind of a regular basis, like as you said, like where you're basically giving people the green light to use.
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:01.680
And you're you're you're kind of holding their hand while they do it and helping them through the process.
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:03.759
And it's just a stigma they have to deal with every day.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:04.559
I imagine so.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:04.960
Yeah.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:22.160
And I would say one of the moms, there's a mom in our short film who helps out on the hotline, and her son has struggled with substance abuse and has had an opioid addiction and tells the story of basically he had an injury and he was given some opioids.
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.200
So he was medically provided with them immediately for him.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:29.759
He felt better, just was one of these drugs that he was, I'm I'm gonna get this.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:40.400
And the mom talks about where she feels there is a stigma even in having substance abuse, where her son is sick, but she doesn't have, she can't talk about it.
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:45.200
If she says if he had had cancer, everyone would be there for me, supporting me.
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:52.400
But to live with someone who's her child who has a substance abuse, who who she's had to bring back to life.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:54.160
She's had to be there for him.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.799
It's so painful and so out of control.
00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.920
But there is so much judgment around it.
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:14.240
And that's what we found so moving about all the stories and meeting the people who are manning and women the hotline is that they're just there to say, I am here to support you.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:15.599
I care about you.
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.160
I don't want you not to be alive.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:25.599
And I'm going to let you use your drug, and I'm going to call an ambulance if you need it.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:33.920
And two people in the film found that experience so powerful for them, they've stopped using one woman, both of them, it's been a year.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:36.880
One of them has overdosed on the hotline.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:46.319
And he just just the compassion and the care of the people who and he even says the EMT, this was someone, the police came, they didn't.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.599
It was a uh state that has um what is it called?
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:50.880
Good Samaritan.
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.880
Good Samaritan Good Samaritan laws, North Carolina, good Samaritan laws.
00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:04.000
So you don't get arrested if you call in someone who's had overdose or drugs, the cops aren't there to penalize you or arrest you.
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.599
They're they're there to also help save a life.
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.720
It's very powerful.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:26.319
So even though you could say, well, you're enabling them because you're on a phone with them and you're providing this safe place for them to take their drugs because call the ambulance, it's actually had a very positive impact on many people, not just the two in our film, to have a chance to have a second chance.
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:44.960
Yeah, I noticed the I cannot recall her name right now, but uh the one lady that Heather was now volunteering said she had called it what something like 150 times before eventually getting clean herself and Well I think one of the things you realize when you start talking to people is the people trying to get through their day.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:46.960
They're not going to a party and using at night.
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:52.000
It's like once you once you go down this path, like people are using five times a day.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.839
You you know, if you're gonna be Because of the withdrawal.
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.279
Because it's but that's why they're using it five times a day.
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:01.839
You're withdrawing every couple hours.
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:02.240
Yes.
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.680
And the withdrawal is like the worst flu you've ever had.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:17.519
It was just like that's where her life ended up before you know she was luckily able to make these decisions.
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:24.000
Aaron Powell I was thinking a bit about kind of pivoting a little bit to your approach to storytelling within this film.
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:32.079
How did you all settle on the approach of there's no voice over narration, I notice, and there's not even any audio from a questioner.
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:43.200
It was just you're hearing the people's stories, you're kind of zooming in to their lives with the overhead shots, and then you zoom in and it's just very intimate and you're just hearing from them.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.039
That was a somewhat unique approach, at least amongst the documentaries I've seen.
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.400
So I'm curious what the process was of kind of coming to that decision.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.000
Like this is how we're gonna structure it.
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:59.359
Well, I th I think we wanted it to feel very observational, and we wanted to literally feel like you could zoom in.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.000
To any window on any street in America.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.359
And you may find this because it is an epidemic.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.599
And it is, it crosses all socioeconomic divide.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:23.359
And there were people calling in from their cars from Brooklyn to the hotline we happened to be in Tennessee, where one of the calls was being answered, or calling in from their parents' bedroom in California.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:48.319
And so we wanted to put the viewer in this sense of just give you a portrait of what it's like to both be someone who is addicted and feels this need, and then someone on the other side who is a nameless, faceless person who's there to basically save their life.
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.359
And it's such an incredibly tense, emotional, heightened moment.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:58.720
And we wanted to people to experience that so that these conversations can come out of it.
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:04.400
So we can start to talk about why people use what can be done, how to help support.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.279
And there's no sort of solutions in the film.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:10.880
It's really just a provocative look to spark conversation.
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:11.920
And Jesse?
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:21.200
And I think one of the other like stylistic structure of decisions we made early on was how to treat the phone calls themselves and the importance of the audio recordings.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:30.720
Because as you know, we we do go pretty heavy on them because we realize that's the power of the film in a lot of ways, the voice, this conversation that's stark.
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.799
It's a caller and an operator.
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.960
And for 10 minutes, literally, lives are on the line.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:51.519
And really kind of in some ways finding the key conversations, which there were a lot of them, and figure out what are the key ones that sort of illustrate different aspects of the story, and kind of anchoring the story, the other the film and its its structure on that, and stripping back a lot.
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.079
So it's really visuals are pretty stark.
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.000
You're in the call and it is as immersive as possible.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:11.119
Not to be gratuitous and say, look at this horrible moment, but to really say this is the reality of people's lives on a daily basis and pull you into both what they're doing and how these calls are having a huge impact in helping them.
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.799
Now I noticed this was not directly unless I missed it.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:20.799
I didn't see it being directly addressed in the film that the uh the first gentleman that that appears on screen.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:29.359
Did I pick this up correctly that he had either adopted or took in the daughter of someone he knew who had overdosed?
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.079
Was that Mike founded?
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:32.799
Sorry, go ahead.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:35.119
He was the founder of the organization.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:37.599
Yes, he founded it.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:50.799
He talks about his best friend, this woman, who he had this child with, his daughter, and she was using he was also someone who had died several times from overdose.
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.839
He had had been an opioid user.
00:24:54.240 --> 00:25:03.519
And she he recorded her phone call so he could play it back to her to s to show her how out of it and how scary it it was for him.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:16.319
And within the next time she died overdosing on a on a call that um he didn't record, but but you know, they didn't know that she had Narcan in the bathroom and she overdosed and she died.
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:23.200
And so for him, he came up with this idea that you should never use alone, which is the 800 hotline number, never use alone.
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:35.039
And because that had he been on the line with her, had he been able to call and have someone there, uh, he felt like there was a way that he could have helped her.
00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:38.559
And then now his daughter, the her daughter lives with him.
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:39.039
Yeah.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.559
I thought that was that's pretty cool that he was who him to take her in.
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:48.799
I I can imagine it's always a tough decision about whether to include a a child or not in in a documentary like that.
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.680
But I think that definitely connected me to that story.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:56.880
I mean, obviously, having children myself and some around her age, just seeing the impact.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:57.599
And yeah.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.200
So yeah, thank you.
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:02.079
Thank you all for for working on important projects like this.
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:19.279
Well, the one thing I'll say about the family is I think we we were both compelled, both for this and the the reason on kind of the flip side we included Vanessa, who's a mother to someone who's a user, is like what you realize and what illustrates, I think, is this isn't just something that's affecting individuals, but it's rippling through communities.
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:23.039
And it's gonna affect the mother, the daughter, the friend, the neighbor.
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:38.000
That this is really this opioid addiction is like an infection that once it gets in, it's it's just kind of ripping through communities, and it's gonna require that sort of community-wide approach to deal with it as well, because that's the type of problem it is.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.640
Aaron Powell Yeah, obviously there's the hotline itself.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:54.400
And are there any other resources that you all ran across in your research that you would recommend places for people to get help or maybe more like re I don't know, free hub centers or some dedicated to that?
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:00.400
If you go to the website, it's a federal website, SAMHSA, S-A-M-H-S-A.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:14.079
It has you put in your state, you put in your county, and it it lists whole different resources for some are harm reduction resources and some meaning that they don't require total abstinence.
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:23.359
They have different ways for you to stay alive as maybe you're trying to get sober, you're trying to come off drugs, methadone and suboxin programs.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:36.400
And then there are some that are different, and they're not harm reduction, they're total abstinence project uh programs, but there's a whole range, and there's thousands of them around the United States, and that website can connect you to it.
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:38.079
Yeah, see if you find it.
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.400
So this is Sam SAMHSA.gov.
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:41.440
Yep.
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:47.119
So I see they have a crisis line there, and that can link you to the other resources.
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:47.920
Yep.
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.799
And then what is the official name of the organization that that runs the hotline?
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.319
If you look up Never Use Alone, Never Use Alone.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:58.640
The film will be on HBO in the fall.
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:02.799
We're working on possibly having some resources at the end of the film as well.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:10.400
So for people to but the 800 line for never usealone, they also will put people in touch with resources.
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.000
The operators they have sent out, they have Narcan.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.319
Narcan is kind of expensive.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:19.839
And Mike will send you some Narcan if you want to have it.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:21.279
Uh it saves lives.
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.440
So they're a great resource themselves.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.359
Yeah, it's not one to come up for me.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.599
But yeah, neverusealone.com.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:31.680
So most of our listeners are in the US, but we do have some internationally as well.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:35.920
Did you all run across is this a widespread problem internationally?
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.839
Obviously, it's a big one here in the US, so I imagine it's probably growing.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:46.000
It is a widespread um and Canada, I think their statistics are very high as well.
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:53.519
I know that there's some similar hotlines out of Canada that they've been talking about sort of sharing resources.
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:57.759
But yeah, it I mean, opioid fentanyl, fentanyl poisoning.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:59.279
I don't know the statistics.
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:00.160
It's a good question.
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:01.119
We should look that up.
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:04.720
But um, it's definitely um a crisis in in many countries.
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:07.519
Well, we're running up on our time here.
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:21.519
Um obviously it's a very serious topic, and uh we do cover those from time to time on nerdhat, but we we typically like to end our interviews, not to pull away at all from from the topic we were just discussing, but just to end on a little bit lighter note.
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:26.240
Uh, question we like to ask all of our guests is um basically, what's in your nerd hat?
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:34.799
Is there whether it's uh whether it's a TV show, a film, maybe it's a novel, uh, it could be a Broadway play you saw recently.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:40.400
Is there something recently it just has got you so excited that you're sharing it with your friends, you're nerding out about it?
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:44.240
It's like, oh, I love this, or maybe it's an escape for you at the end of the day.
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.440
Uh just something you're really enthused about at present.
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.559
I just went to see Rocky Horror on Broadway.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:51.519
Oh, nice.
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:58.960
And my friend Rachel Dratch is in it, and she's fantastic, and that is something to nerd out about for sure.
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:01.039
She's great and it's a really fun show.
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:04.640
That doesn't help as you're not able to come to New York and see it.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:06.640
Let me think about other Jesse.
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:08.000
What are you nerding out about?
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:20.319
Me and my kids, we've been like obsessively watching that show Company Retreat, which is like the follow-up to the show Jury Duty, which I think as a documentary filmmaker, appreciate that you know, what do you know the construct?
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.240
Basically it's I'm not okay.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:22.960
So it's a comedy.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:24.799
It's so good.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:31.039
The original was it was about jury, and it's like one of the creators, I think, of Community or Parks and Rack, one of those shows.
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:31.359
Okay.
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:33.519
And so it seems like it's a documentary.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:35.519
Everyone's an actor except one person.
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:48.400
And so they say we're gonna the first season was called Jury Duty, and they say the documentarians want to make a documentary about like uh jury duty, and everyone starts doing increasingly crazy, surreal things and saying, like, does the normal guy like figure it out or not?
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:57.759
And the new one's about a company retreat where again it's this company, a hot sauce company, and they're on a company retreat and just everything goes wrong, and everyone's an actor, but one guy thinks it's a documentary.
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.680
It's like the reverse of what Sasha Baron Cohen did with some of his movies.
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:04.799
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:05.359
Exactly.
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:06.160
Exactly.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:07.279
Everyone else is there.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:08.319
Oh, that sounds fun.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:09.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:14.079
And I know Rocky Horror, like I know it's playing other places too, it's such a popular one.
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.599
I think we had our local theater here did uh not too long ago, I think.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.759
Oh, did they do the play or did they do players?
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:27.119
We have some local, some local playhouses here, like the little Little Theater of Winston-Salem, and then there's a couple others, obviously the Haynesbrand Theater.
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:32.400
I believe I remember hearing of them doing Rocky Horror recently, but but you said currently it's playing, is that on Broadway?
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:34.799
It's uh it's a play on Broadway.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.880
I think it originated as a play, it became a movie, and now it's back to being a play.
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:46.000
It's playing at Studio 54, the famous Studio 54 that was at one point a dance nightclub.
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:48.880
And it's now back to a theater and it's great.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.880
It's yeah, it's getting a lot of attention.
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:57.359
Uh it is where if you are someone who follows Rocky Horror, it's fun to go and see it live again.
00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:05.279
Yeah, and I I listened uh kind of leading up to this, I listened to your episode with Rachel Dretch on Woo-Woo, her podcast, where you talked about surviving death.
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:12.319
And uh it seemed like y'all had a lot of fun and uh obviously got into some UFOs and all that fun stuff.
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:13.680
Just yeah, fascinating stuff.
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:16.559
I imagine that's probably a podcast you would recommend.
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:20.480
Uh, do you all have any other podcast recommendations, ones that you love listening to?
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:21.680
I do like Woo Woo.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.079
I like for podcasts, Rachel Drash's Woo-woo.
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:25.920
I watch I listen to every podcast.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:27.039
How to choose one.
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:28.400
There's so many, right?
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:29.680
Oh my gosh.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:30.240
Yeah.
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:32.480
Now I feel like I can't say a single one.
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:34.720
What do you what do you listen to, Jesse?
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.799
I will say my podcasts are kind of boring.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:38.559
Like I do a lot of New York Times podcasts.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:42.079
Like I do like a lot of like the daily and like decline.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.960
Uh and I'm I'm I go pretty deep in serial.
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:48.000
Serial is good.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:48.640
Oh, yeah.
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:53.519
Jesse, I just listened to that, the one you told me, wings win winds of change.
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:54.720
Wind of change.
00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:54.960
Yeah.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.480
That's an excellent one for your audience.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:58.079
My favorite podcast of all time.
00:32:58.400 --> 00:32:58.880
Winds of Change.
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:19.920
Just say the premise is about So the basic premise is um Patrick Reedner Keefe, the investigative journalist, gets a job, uh, a grant to like be inside the CIA doing research and starts hearing this rumor that the song Wind of Change by Scorpion was an operation run by the CIA to destabilize the Soviet Union and make people want freedom.
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:25.599
And so he goes down this deep rabbit hole of was Scorpion really a CIA front?
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:27.440
And it's just amazing in all.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:29.680
I think I've listened to that one now that I think about it.
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:30.000
Yeah.
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.400
Yeah, it's about halfway through it.
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:33.039
It's so good.
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:34.000
Yeah.
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:36.400
Yeah, I I love a good limited series.
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:37.599
What do you like, Richard?
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:38.079
What is it?
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:39.279
So I like a good limited series.
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:39.839
I'm like you.
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:40.319
Yeah.
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:42.960
What's your go-to podcast?
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.160
Well, yeah, so I have I have different ones.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:48.880
I have some I go to just for laughs or to escape.
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:54.799
Like uh there's uh how did these get made is is one that I enjoy just for kind of an escape.
00:33:54.880 --> 00:34:08.000
And but yeah, if I'm if I'm getting a little more serious or if I want to do some research, I I usually get something that's like MPR adjacent or kind of I really like the I haven't listened to their newest season, I don't think, but uh Reveal.
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:12.239
Uh it's a really good investigative, like independent investigative journalism podcast.
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:14.639
They kind of do some real deep dives into things.
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.400
Let's see, there was another one.
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:18.559
Shoot, my brains are on a blank through line.
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.880
Through line, which I think is MPR, if I'm not mistaken.
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:28.159
I like I like how they they trace the history from the past up until present present tense.
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.159
Because yeah, I'm often wondering like how did we get here or or what's the origins of this?
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:34.239
Or yeah, so they answer a lot of those questions.
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:48.800
Yeah, so I I like to nerd out about those, but then I I love some good entertainment podcast and love some good audio dramas, like Q Code puts out a lot of excellent stuff, like full production with some mainstream actors too, really good writing.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:49.440
So yeah.
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:50.880
I'm kind of all over the place.
00:34:51.119 --> 00:35:01.519
But uh, but yeah, I do often listen to the How Did This Get Made, and yeah, that's kind of my go-to escape podcast, I think, these days, at least here recently.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:02.639
So yeah.
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:04.400
Well, thank you both so much.
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:22.079
I know we went over just a little bit, but uh I've just really enjoyed talking to both of you and uh thank you for taking time to come on the podcast and congrats on getting the I know it was honorable mention with with River Run, and I'm sure you've gotten some other awards and will again in the future, getting picked up on HBO as well.
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:23.119
So y'all look out for that.
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:24.559
You say it's coming in the fall, correct?
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:25.280
Hotline.
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.039
So yeah, so listeners look out for that uh coming to HBO in the fall.
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:29.760
Thank you.
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:30.559
Awesome.
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:31.519
Great to meet you.
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.480
Thank you so much.
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:43.360
The Nerdhat podcast was produced in partnership with Nerdhat Productions, which is owned by me, Richard Best.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.679
So it's produced by me.
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:48.320
Wait, what is this music?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.159
Hold on just a second.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.639
Let me see if I can find my normal music.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:55.440
Hmm.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:58.079
There we go.
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:05.440
Okay, so the Nerdhat Podcast is produced by Nerdhat Productions.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:13.599
Uh I want to give a big thank you to my co-hosts Will Boyer and Laura Morales.
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:18.079
They have been such a big part of the success of this podcast.
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:20.000
It would not be possible without them.
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:21.199
I mean that sincerely.
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.920
I would have quit a long damn time ago.
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:34.000
Uh thanks also to all of our many collaborators and guests over the years, and most recently Elijah Miller, for giving us a new logo.
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:37.280
While I was involved in creating it, I did not do the artwork.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:39.760
He did it, and it was amazing.
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:51.840
So, the Nerd High Podcast was recorded by me, Richard Best, and edited by me, Richard Best, with a little bit of assistance from Riverside.fm.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.519
I appreciate that program.
00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:00.159
It has been very helpful for virtual recordings like on snow days, you know, things like that.
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:01.199
You name it.
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:03.199
Anyway, I digress.
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:09.519
Until next time, nerds, nerdhatters, nerdhets, assorted nerd persons.
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:13.760
Live long and prosper.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:06.160
I saw some statistic that over a ten year period more people have died from opioids than in the Vietnam conflict.
00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:11.839
I mean, it it's like they're it's just horrendous the the amount of lives that are being lost on a regular basis by it.
00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:12.320
Yeah.
00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:14.160
And it relates to overdose.
00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:18.559
You know, it it isn't even like alcohol long-term progressive things.
00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:19.679
It it's overdose.
00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:31.920
And I think that's why this project, this film, the hotline really stood out, is because there's the moment of life and death in opioid use is seconds to minutes.
00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:51.520
Where if you are someone who frequently uses, or you're someone who one time is using, or you're someone who has someone's handed you a pill that they say is sex, like clonopin or something, it could be laced with fentanyl and you could overdose, and and within minutes, you could die.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:52.880
Nerdy.
00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:54.560
Nostalgic.
00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:56.479
Madly inappropriate.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:58.159
This is nerd hat.
00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:00.000
Nerd hat, I'm with late.
00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:02.560
Why am I robot?
00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:13.519
Nerdheaders, if you've been with us for a while, you know that we love to have fun on our podcast.
00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:19.519
But occasionally we do cover a film that is more serious.
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:21.200
This is no exception.
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:27.680
Hotline deals with opioid addiction, fentanyl, overdose, and death.
00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:33.439
So if those subjects are triggering for you, I recommend skipping this episode.
00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:40.719
If you or someone you know is struggling with opioid addiction, help is available.
00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.000
Here are two resources which the filmmakers recommend.
00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:49.200
First is SAMHSA.gov, that's S A-M-H-S-A.gov.
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:52.000
That is kind of an all-in-one resource.
00:01:52.159 --> 00:02:01.040
You can look up your state, your county within the United States of America, and find local resources to help you in battling addiction.
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:06.319
The other is the Never Use Alone Hotline, which is featured in the documentary itself.
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:10.400
That number is 1-877-696-1996.
00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:15.199
That's 1-877-696-1996.
00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:18.000
Please reach out if you need help.
00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:20.960
Now on to today's episode.
00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:23.599
All right, nerdheaders.
00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:32.479
I am here with Ricky Stern and Jesse Sweet, who are the co-directors of the short documentary, Hotline.
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.400
So that recently appeared you coming on to talk about your film.
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:36.800
Thank you.
00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:37.599
Thanks for having us.
00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:38.240
Absolutely.
00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:44.319
So Ricky, I I know this was not your first time in Winston-Salem, but uh Jesse, had you been to Winston before?
00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:46.800
This was my first time at Riverrun.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:51.199
I'd been to uh Winston-Salem like documentaries you're filming all the time.
00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:53.919
So I've done some filming at Wake Forest with some professors in the past.
00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:54.639
Nice.
00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:54.960
Okay.
00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:55.360
Yeah.
00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:57.199
But this is my first time at the festival.
00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.319
So well, Jill, Ricky, had you been to River Run before?
00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:02.319
I had not been to River Run.
00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.879
And in fact, I really haven't been to Winston-Salem for many years.
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:07.599
But you're right.
00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:15.360
I when I filmed the trials of Daryl Hunt, we were filming in the 90s or then when Daryl was getting released early 2000s.
00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:19.120
But I haven't really been back in almost 15 or so years.
00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:20.800
And it's really changed.
00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:28.000
It's this happening, funky little cool, you know, coffee bars and all that kind of stuff all over the place.
00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:31.199
I just kept saying to Jesse, I was like, oh my God, this is like, look at that.
00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:34.639
They, you know, there's a little French pastry, you know, pastry shop here.
00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:36.560
It just radically changed.
00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:39.840
Um, but I'd never been to the festival and the heard a lot about it.
00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:42.240
And the festival is spectacular.
00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:44.879
It's really, I was so impressed with the audience.
00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.800
People are really coming to the screenings.
00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:48.639
The venues are really beautiful.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:49.840
It was a great experience.
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:50.560
Awesome.
00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.039
Well, welcome and welcome again, so to speak.
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.039
So I know they were glad to have you all.
00:03:55.120 --> 00:04:00.400
And yeah, it's just I've been really impressed with the staff, uh, with the new executive director, Michael.
00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:03.599
So yeah, it's really cool things, I think, ahead for Riverrun.
00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:17.839
So was there, I know for the two of you, at least from what I saw on your IMDB listings, pretty much your entire careers have been kind of in the documentary filmmaking, whether it be features or or TV, is that accurate for the most part?
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:24.879
Or I have also worked a little bit in scripted very early in my career, and I took a time.
00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:27.199
I wrote some children's books for a while.
00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:28.160
Oh, nice.
00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:29.199
Yeah, animated.
00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:30.319
I'm illustrated.
00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.279
But mostly for me, it has been a documentary.
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:34.720
Aaron Powell I've mainly been documentary.
00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:38.319
I do some branded things here and there to kind of like fill the gaps.
00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:46.160
And I the one time I actually I did produce one very independent feature film with a lot of North Carolina School of the Arts people.
00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:51.199
So there's a little bit of Nate Meyer and David Gordon Green was an executive producer on it.
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:52.480
It was called Seagirl Run.
00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:54.319
And I Nate Rowan directed it.
00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.800
Jane Ritzo also School of the Arts edited it.
00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:00.800
And that was, I don't know, that was a fun project with uh Adam Scott and Robin Tony.
00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:02.240
Jesse, I didn't even know that.
00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:03.680
I like to keep a couple of things.
00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:05.360
Did you even talk about that?
00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:06.160
I did.
00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:06.480
I know.
00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:06.959
It was a bit?
00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:08.240
Did I remember?
00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:08.879
Did I forget?
00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:09.920
No, I don't think I did.
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:14.000
So majority of your time in that, but obviously filmmaking in general.
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:29.360
And uh the question I like to ask as you were growing up, you know, college age, et cetera, was there a particular film, or maybe it was a TV series, something that grabbed you and made you say, I would like to do that.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:35.040
Like I would like to be a filmmaker, I would like to make these types of films, or was the process more gradual for you?
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:36.480
And you guys can take turns answering that.
00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:37.600
You want to go first, Jesse?
00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:38.800
I'll go about that.
00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:43.279
Because I remember when I was in college, I did a an internship for the Telluride Film Festival.
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:48.720
And I went out there and saw the Errol Morris film Fast Sheep and Out of Control.
00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:49.439
It was that summer.
00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:53.519
And that was like kind of like mind-blowing like documentaries can do that.
00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.639
They're not all polar bears and nature shots.
00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:02.160
It's like they can be apocalyptic and funny and scary and exciting and cinematic.
00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:04.560
And that really was a documentary.
00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:08.560
And I remember being out there and that being like, oh my God, and can you do that for a living?
00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:18.399
And I like that was one where it was just like kind of opened my eyes to like what's possible to do and made me very I don't know if I left the theater and was like, and I'm gonna be a documentary filmmaker.
00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:22.720
But it certainly got me excited about documentaries in a way I hadn't been before.
00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:23.439
It's interesting.
00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:24.240
You know, it's so funny.
00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.480
I was gonna say Errol Maris as well.
00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:37.199
If you if you said films, I mean, I always say for me, the Wizard of Oz was just one of those mind-blowing experiences that I when I first saw it, I was like, is she dreaming?
00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:47.199
Is this like it just brought me into like the fantasy and the everything about it, even now when I see Wizard of Oz, I just can't get every time I watch it, it's something different.
00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:55.759
Anyway, I know that sounds stupid, but but I was gonna say, Errol Morris, because the Temple Grandin documentary about, I think it was called Stairway to Heaven.
00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:57.279
Something like that.
00:06:57.360 --> 00:06:57.519
Yeah.
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:07.199
Something about where she she creates that circular maze for the cows to go through so they don't feel anxiety as they're going to the slaughterhouse.
00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.360
I watched that movie and I was and it was beautiful.
00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.319
And I think I even shot in black and white or whatever it was.
00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:18.000
I just thought same thing, like the this character-driven film, something about that as a documentary.
00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:21.839
And then there's a couple other films of Errol Morris that really struck me.
00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:24.879
But from my background, I I was more doing theater.
00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:42.079
And so what I liked about documentary or and what I tend to try to focus on is character and what motivates someone in the same way you would have an arc of a character in a scripted film or an arc of a character in a play, this narrative arc.
00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.199
I'm always looking for that in the stories that we're telling.
00:07:45.439 --> 00:08:04.800
For me as a woman, getting in coming, you know, getting into film, documentary way back then, was just an easier way into telling stories visually because Hollywood was still very closed off to it was an old boys club and might still be, but you know, it was not even looking for women's directors and things like that.
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:05.360
Okay.
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:11.920
So both he influenced by Errol Morris and displaying my ignorance, I had not heard of him yet.
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:19.519
Now it's possible I may have heard of one of his films, but that's a realm for myself that I need to dive more into documentaries.
00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:21.680
I've been thinking about that more recently, actually.
00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:22.800
So I'll keep that.
00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:29.120
He probably did one of the first, what what do you would call almost true crime in um what was it?
00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:29.519
His one.
00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:30.800
Thin Blue Line.
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:32.000
Thin Blue Line.
00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:32.159
Yeah.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:32.799
Yes.
00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:34.559
1988, I'm seeing here.
00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:35.600
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:53.519
That's what the maybe one to watch first because it really set sort of a a pattern for t a new way of telling a story about I mean it's a a conviction that then he re-examines in this documentary, or I don't know if it was a conviction, I can't even remember, or like an accusation, right?
00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:55.919
Or police bungled maybe on purpose.
00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.559
But anyway, it it it really was before true crime was true crime.
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:04.639
And I I think he would probably not like me to compare it to true crime, but whatever.
00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:10.559
Yeah, I I know so many people are waiting in that pool nowadays, especially in the podcasting world.
00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:11.360
Right.
00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:16.159
And I I noticed, sorry, this is maybe uh it just made me think of it.
00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:20.639
I noticed in looking at Breakthrough Films and just at the about page.
00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.679
So obviously you both worked there, and I think Ricky, you were involved in founding it, is that correct?
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.519
I started it in 1990, yeah.
00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:34.320
So I noticed that among the many awards that you all have either been nominated for or have won that there were two Peabody Awards.
00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:37.600
And if I'm not mistaken, that's related to radio productions, is it not?
00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:39.039
So have you or am I am I wrong?
00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:42.639
There's Peabody Awards are also for documentaries.
00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.039
They have their own Peabody sections.
00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:45.600
Yeah.
00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:48.000
Well, Jesse and I, so I I did start it.
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:51.600
I worked with a filmmaker named Annie Sundberg on many of my projects.
00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:56.080
And then Jesse and I have worked on many projects, and then he works on things separately.
00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:14.480
It's kind of that type of well, people are doing it all different ways, but for us, I think just having the ability to tell stories when we want to tell them is is really drives us versus starting a company where you're constantly having to, you know, have a lot of overhead and it it's tried to keep it lean and mean so that we could do projects.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:37.360
And and very much like the Hotline, which came up very spontaneously, the our short film about the opioid, opioid crisis, but through this very intimate storytelling through this hotline, we just were able to just go and do it with friends and film it and not have to raise significant funds, which you would if it were a feature, just because there's just at a certain point you're shooting so many days.
00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:47.919
A short, and I think Jesse and I are both sort of trying to get it into in the student body, just like go do a short because it's its own challenge.
00:10:48.080 --> 00:11:00.799
It has its own way of storytelling, just like a short story in some ways, but it allows you to tell the story quicker, faster with less funds up front and can be very effective.
00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:06.080
Now, with that topic, I mean, obviously fentanyl addiction is one that's been in the news.
00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:08.399
I mean, I've certainly heard of it in the news.
00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:12.399
I've not dove that deeply into researching it myself.
00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.759
How did you all come to choose that particular topic?
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:17.360
You said it kind of happened spontaneously.
00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:21.600
Was there someone that you said someone just kind of recommended it or?
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:25.360
I'm gonna let Jesse speak, but I'll just say very briefly.
00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:37.759
I just because it it did come, I I did listen to a radio show, and um the never use alone is this uh um 800 hotline that is run by volunteers.
00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:43.200
And I was listening to this radio program telling the story of it, and it was so moving.
00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:55.600
I tracked down the guy who started it and asked if I could meet him on a Zoom with some of the people, and very quickly they said, Yes, you can come do this, you know, a film, which I knew was going to be a short, a short about it.
00:11:55.759 --> 00:12:08.399
And I personally have lost people to overdose and uh have several family members who are EMTs and encounter overdose very often, and Narcan has saved many people, and mentioned it to Jesse.
00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:14.320
Jesse and I had just finished Nature of the Crime, which is about the parole process for HBO.
00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:16.159
And this is a hard subject.
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.559
And it so I just thought if Jesse were interested, it would be a project to do together.
00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:27.840
It's always nice to have a partner and something that is emotional and tough, and you're entering people's lives in this very difficult time.
00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:31.440
So and then I'll pass it to Jesse to say why he said yes.
00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:50.879
As soon as Ricky shared it with me the concept and sort of told me about the people involved, I was definitely all in because I had directed a couple of years ago part of a Netflix series called The Business of Drugs, which it was a six-part series, and it sort of took almost like a freakonomics look at narcotics and said, There's so much judgment involved.
00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:54.240
What if we like looked at what are the financial decisions that are driving this?
00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:01.279
We think it's like, oh, this underworld, which it is in some ways, but it's also people making rational economic choices based on what's ahead of them.
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:08.960
And what's what's driving the sale of drugs and rise of drugs is no different than what's driving Walmart's stock prices or Amazon's efficiency campaign.
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:12.799
And so it was a fascinating look into this world, but it was very clinical in a way.
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.559
And you know, while doing it, I did one of my episodes was actually on opioids.
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:25.519
And so I was interacting with people who were using or had used or were in it, but we kind of didn't tell that side of the story, which felt just because of the format, it didn't fit into that.
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:28.960
And it it had been something I'd been interested since then.
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:37.120
Like Ricky, I knew people who had been battling with addiction problems and and felt like that was something that I did want to look at at some point.
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:40.000
And this seemed like a perfect opportunity when Ricky brought it up.
00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:53.919
So I was very sort of, you know, it's having such a devastating impact on our country and the world in general that it feels like one of those things that everyone who can be talking about it should be talking about it because the carnage is just truly horrible.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:14:02.080
And and the way these people in our film are dealing with it, you know, I think we both found inspiring and compassionate and really changing the the paradigm of it.
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:04.320
So I was excited from the second I heard about it.
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:06.480
Yeah, I was um I was not aware.
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:13.679
I saw the statistic and that really stood out to me that it is the leading cause of death for people aged 18 to 44.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.480
Do you know the number of deaths per year?
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.720
I know CDC data maybe is not as reliable as it used to be in recent days.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:28.639
I saw some statistic that like over a 10-year period m more people have died from opioids than the than in the Vietnam conflict.
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:34.639
I mean, it it's like they're it's just horrendous, you know, the the amount of lives that are being lost on a regular basis by it.
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:35.120
Yeah.
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:36.879
And it relates to overdose.
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:41.279
You know, it it isn't even like alcohol long-term progressive things.
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:42.399
It it's overdose.
00:14:42.480 --> 00:15:13.600
And I think that's why this project, this film, the hotline really stood out, is because there's the moment of life and death in opioid use is seconds to minutes, where if you are someone who frequently uses, or you're someone who one time is using, or you're someone who has someone's handed you a pill that they say is X, like clonapin or something, it could be laced with fentanyl and you could overdose and within minutes, you could die.
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:22.080
And so the the thing that was so compelling about this hotline is there's no judgment, there's no effort.
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:29.679
I mean, they will provide resources for people who have substance abuse and who want to try to get off of it, but they're not going to force you.
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:34.799
And what opioid, frequent opioid users say is I would have taken it regardless.
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.879
Like there's you can't convince me in a moment when I'm gonna take a hit.
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:46.720
And so they're just there to say, if you do overdose, we will call a 911 on this national 911 hotline.
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:53.600
We will get a an EMT there, EMS will be called, and hopefully you'll have a second chance.
00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.279
And so that was the thing.
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.519
And the thing about the statistics that it is the leading cause.
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.679
It's the overdosing because there is such an unregulated.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.440
And now I don't know if you you know, but the federal government has just cut hotline funding, federal.
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.159
This does this program doesn't have federal funding.
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:22.559
It's a volunteer, but they've cut all federal funding to hotlines, to harm reduction organizations and to things like needle exchange.
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:33.360
And I think the fear is within community of people who work with people who have this substance issues, is that it you will have higher rates of mortality.
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.960
Aaron Ross Powell I can only imagine, yeah, if there's not as much access to help.
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:45.039
And given the nature of the approach that this particular organization takes, is have they encountered some controversy?
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:52.799
Because I know there's others who I mean, obviously there's some who want to take a more punitive approach to dealing with this and criminalize it.
00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.159
And that just doesn't seem to do any good at the end of the day.
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:00.159
But has there been a lot of um I don't know what the right word?
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:05.680
Have there been complaints that they've had to deal with, like from local authorities or things because of their approach?
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.559
Have they been maybe accused of being enablers at times?
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:09.119
Yeah.
00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:10.799
Jesse, I think you want to answer.
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:30.640
Yeah, I mean I think we I think you see there's a pendulum that swings back and forth between are we going to treat addiction as, like you said, a punitive, uh, a criminal offense that should be dealt with with the criminal justice system, or is a medical issue that should be dealt with by how do you help keep people alive to get them to a point where they can make a decision to stop using.
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:41.839
And I think a while ago, certainly like Reagan era, like all in on war on crime, I think there was a moment where there was more openness to this is a medical issue, how can we give people help?
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.000
And I think it feels like it's swinging back.
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:51.119
And because of that, like I don't want to say that Ricky might know more than me, that they've had someone like try to shut them down or anything.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:57.440
I think there's just a stigma that they confront kind of a regular basis, like as you said, like where you're basically giving people the green light to use.
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:01.680
And you're you're you're kind of holding their hand while they do it and helping them through the process.
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:03.759
And it's just a stigma they have to deal with every day.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:04.559
I imagine so.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:04.960
Yeah.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:22.160
And I would say one of the moms, there's a mom in our short film who helps out on the hotline, and her son has struggled with substance abuse and has had an opioid addiction and tells the story of basically he had an injury and he was given some opioids.
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.200
So he was medically provided with them immediately for him.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:29.759
He felt better, just was one of these drugs that he was, I'm I'm gonna get this.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:40.400
And the mom talks about where she feels there is a stigma even in having substance abuse, where her son is sick, but she doesn't have, she can't talk about it.
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:45.200
If she says if he had had cancer, everyone would be there for me, supporting me.
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:52.400
But to live with someone who's her child who has a substance abuse, who who she's had to bring back to life.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:54.160
She's had to be there for him.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.799
It's so painful and so out of control.
00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.920
But there is so much judgment around it.
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:14.240
And that's what we found so moving about all the stories and meeting the people who are manning and women the hotline is that they're just there to say, I am here to support you.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:15.599
I care about you.
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.160
I don't want you not to be alive.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:25.599
And I'm going to let you use your drug, and I'm going to call an ambulance if you need it.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:33.920
And two people in the film found that experience so powerful for them, they've stopped using one woman, both of them, it's been a year.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:36.880
One of them has overdosed on the hotline.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:46.319
And he just just the compassion and the care of the people who and he even says the EMT, this was someone, the police came, they didn't.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.599
It was a uh state that has um what is it called?
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:50.880
Good Samaritan.
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.880
Good Samaritan Good Samaritan laws, North Carolina, good Samaritan laws.
00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:04.000
So you don't get arrested if you call in someone who's had overdose or drugs, the cops aren't there to penalize you or arrest you.
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.599
They're they're there to also help save a life.
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.720
It's very powerful.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:26.319
So even though you could say, well, you're enabling them because you're on a phone with them and you're providing this safe place for them to take their drugs because call the ambulance, it's actually had a very positive impact on many people, not just the two in our film, to have a chance to have a second chance.
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:44.960
Yeah, I noticed the I cannot recall her name right now, but uh the one lady that Heather was now volunteering said she had called it what something like 150 times before eventually getting clean herself and Well I think one of the things you realize when you start talking to people is the people trying to get through their day.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:46.960
They're not going to a party and using at night.
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:52.000
It's like once you once you go down this path, like people are using five times a day.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.839
You you know, if you're gonna be Because of the withdrawal.
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.279
Because it's but that's why they're using it five times a day.
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:01.839
You're withdrawing every couple hours.
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:02.240
Yes.
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.680
And the withdrawal is like the worst flu you've ever had.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:17.519
It was just like that's where her life ended up before you know she was luckily able to make these decisions.
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:24.000
Aaron Powell I was thinking a bit about kind of pivoting a little bit to your approach to storytelling within this film.
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:32.079
How did you all settle on the approach of there's no voice over narration, I notice, and there's not even any audio from a questioner.
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:43.200
It was just you're hearing the people's stories, you're kind of zooming in to their lives with the overhead shots, and then you zoom in and it's just very intimate and you're just hearing from them.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.039
That was a somewhat unique approach, at least amongst the documentaries I've seen.
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.400
So I'm curious what the process was of kind of coming to that decision.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.000
Like this is how we're gonna structure it.
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:59.359
Well, I th I think we wanted it to feel very observational, and we wanted to literally feel like you could zoom in.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.000
To any window on any street in America.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.359
And you may find this because it is an epidemic.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.599
And it is, it crosses all socioeconomic divide.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:23.359
And there were people calling in from their cars from Brooklyn to the hotline we happened to be in Tennessee, where one of the calls was being answered, or calling in from their parents' bedroom in California.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:48.319
And so we wanted to put the viewer in this sense of just give you a portrait of what it's like to both be someone who is addicted and feels this need, and then someone on the other side who is a nameless, faceless person who's there to basically save their life.
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.359
And it's such an incredibly tense, emotional, heightened moment.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:58.720
And we wanted to people to experience that so that these conversations can come out of it.
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:04.400
So we can start to talk about why people use what can be done, how to help support.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.279
And there's no sort of solutions in the film.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:10.880
It's really just a provocative look to spark conversation.
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:11.920
And Jesse?
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:21.200
And I think one of the other like stylistic structure of decisions we made early on was how to treat the phone calls themselves and the importance of the audio recordings.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:30.720
Because as you know, we we do go pretty heavy on them because we realize that's the power of the film in a lot of ways, the voice, this conversation that's stark.
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.799
It's a caller and an operator.
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.960
And for 10 minutes, literally, lives are on the line.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:51.519
And really kind of in some ways finding the key conversations, which there were a lot of them, and figure out what are the key ones that sort of illustrate different aspects of the story, and kind of anchoring the story, the other the film and its its structure on that, and stripping back a lot.
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.079
So it's really visuals are pretty stark.
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.000
You're in the call and it is as immersive as possible.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:11.119
Not to be gratuitous and say, look at this horrible moment, but to really say this is the reality of people's lives on a daily basis and pull you into both what they're doing and how these calls are having a huge impact in helping them.
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.799
Now I noticed this was not directly unless I missed it.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:20.799
I didn't see it being directly addressed in the film that the uh the first gentleman that that appears on screen.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:29.359
Did I pick this up correctly that he had either adopted or took in the daughter of someone he knew who had overdosed?
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.079
Was that Mike founded?
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:32.799
Sorry, go ahead.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:35.119
He was the founder of the organization.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:37.599
Yes, he founded it.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:50.799
He talks about his best friend, this woman, who he had this child with, his daughter, and she was using he was also someone who had died several times from overdose.
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.839
He had had been an opioid user.
00:24:54.240 --> 00:25:03.519
And she he recorded her phone call so he could play it back to her to s to show her how out of it and how scary it it was for him.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:16.319
And within the next time she died overdosing on a on a call that um he didn't record, but but you know, they didn't know that she had Narcan in the bathroom and she overdosed and she died.
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:23.200
And so for him, he came up with this idea that you should never use alone, which is the 800 hotline number, never use alone.
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:35.039
And because that had he been on the line with her, had he been able to call and have someone there, uh, he felt like there was a way that he could have helped her.
00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:38.559
And then now his daughter, the her daughter lives with him.
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:39.039
Yeah.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.559
I thought that was that's pretty cool that he was who him to take her in.
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:48.799
I I can imagine it's always a tough decision about whether to include a a child or not in in a documentary like that.
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.680
But I think that definitely connected me to that story.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:56.880
I mean, obviously, having children myself and some around her age, just seeing the impact.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:57.599
And yeah.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.200
So yeah, thank you.
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:02.079
Thank you all for for working on important projects like this.
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:19.279
Well, the one thing I'll say about the family is I think we we were both compelled, both for this and the the reason on kind of the flip side we included Vanessa, who's a mother to someone who's a user, is like what you realize and what illustrates, I think, is this isn't just something that's affecting individuals, but it's rippling through communities.
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:23.039
And it's gonna affect the mother, the daughter, the friend, the neighbor.
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:38.000
That this is really this opioid addiction is like an infection that once it gets in, it's it's just kind of ripping through communities, and it's gonna require that sort of community-wide approach to deal with it as well, because that's the type of problem it is.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.640
Aaron Powell Yeah, obviously there's the hotline itself.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:54.400
And are there any other resources that you all ran across in your research that you would recommend places for people to get help or maybe more like re I don't know, free hub centers or some dedicated to that?
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:00.400
If you go to the website, it's a federal website, SAMHSA, S-A-M-H-S-A.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:14.079
It has you put in your state, you put in your county, and it it lists whole different resources for some are harm reduction resources and some meaning that they don't require total abstinence.
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:23.359
They have different ways for you to stay alive as maybe you're trying to get sober, you're trying to come off drugs, methadone and suboxin programs.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:36.400
And then there are some that are different, and they're not harm reduction, they're total abstinence project uh programs, but there's a whole range, and there's thousands of them around the United States, and that website can connect you to it.
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:38.079
Yeah, see if you find it.
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.400
So this is Sam SAMHSA.gov.
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:41.440
Yep.
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:47.119
So I see they have a crisis line there, and that can link you to the other resources.
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:47.920
Yep.
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.799
And then what is the official name of the organization that that runs the hotline?
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.319
If you look up Never Use Alone, Never Use Alone.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:58.640
The film will be on HBO in the fall.
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:02.799
We're working on possibly having some resources at the end of the film as well.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:10.400
So for people to but the 800 line for never usealone, they also will put people in touch with resources.
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.000
The operators they have sent out, they have Narcan.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.319
Narcan is kind of expensive.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:19.839
And Mike will send you some Narcan if you want to have it.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:21.279
Uh it saves lives.
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.440
So they're a great resource themselves.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.359
Yeah, it's not one to come up for me.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.599
But yeah, neverusealone.com.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:31.680
So most of our listeners are in the US, but we do have some internationally as well.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:35.920
Did you all run across is this a widespread problem internationally?
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.839
Obviously, it's a big one here in the US, so I imagine it's probably growing.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:46.000
It is a widespread um and Canada, I think their statistics are very high as well.
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:53.519
I know that there's some similar hotlines out of Canada that they've been talking about sort of sharing resources.
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:57.759
But yeah, it I mean, opioid fentanyl, fentanyl poisoning.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:59.279
I don't know the statistics.
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:00.160
It's a good question.
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:01.119
We should look that up.
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:04.720
But um, it's definitely um a crisis in in many countries.
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:07.519
Well, we're running up on our time here.
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:21.519
Um obviously it's a very serious topic, and uh we do cover those from time to time on nerdhat, but we we typically like to end our interviews, not to pull away at all from from the topic we were just discussing, but just to end on a little bit lighter note.
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:26.240
Uh, question we like to ask all of our guests is um basically, what's in your nerd hat?
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:34.799
Is there whether it's uh whether it's a TV show, a film, maybe it's a novel, uh, it could be a Broadway play you saw recently.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:40.400
Is there something recently it just has got you so excited that you're sharing it with your friends, you're nerding out about it?
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:44.240
It's like, oh, I love this, or maybe it's an escape for you at the end of the day.
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.440
Uh just something you're really enthused about at present.
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.559
I just went to see Rocky Horror on Broadway.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:51.519
Oh, nice.
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:58.960
And my friend Rachel Dratch is in it, and she's fantastic, and that is something to nerd out about for sure.
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:01.039
She's great and it's a really fun show.
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:04.640
That doesn't help as you're not able to come to New York and see it.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:06.640
Let me think about other Jesse.
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:08.000
What are you nerding out about?
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:20.319
Me and my kids, we've been like obsessively watching that show Company Retreat, which is like the follow-up to the show Jury Duty, which I think as a documentary filmmaker, appreciate that you know, what do you know the construct?
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.240
Basically it's I'm not okay.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:22.960
So it's a comedy.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:24.799
It's so good.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:31.039
The original was it was about jury, and it's like one of the creators, I think, of Community or Parks and Rack, one of those shows.
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:31.359
Okay.
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:33.519
And so it seems like it's a documentary.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:35.519
Everyone's an actor except one person.
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:48.400
And so they say we're gonna the first season was called Jury Duty, and they say the documentarians want to make a documentary about like uh jury duty, and everyone starts doing increasingly crazy, surreal things and saying, like, does the normal guy like figure it out or not?
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:57.759
And the new one's about a company retreat where again it's this company, a hot sauce company, and they're on a company retreat and just everything goes wrong, and everyone's an actor, but one guy thinks it's a documentary.
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.680
It's like the reverse of what Sasha Baron Cohen did with some of his movies.
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:04.799
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:05.359
Exactly.
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:06.160
Exactly.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:07.279
Everyone else is there.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:08.319
Oh, that sounds fun.
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:09.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:14.079
And I know Rocky Horror, like I know it's playing other places too, it's such a popular one.
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.599
I think we had our local theater here did uh not too long ago, I think.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.759
Oh, did they do the play or did they do players?
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:27.119
We have some local, some local playhouses here, like the little Little Theater of Winston-Salem, and then there's a couple others, obviously the Haynesbrand Theater.
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:32.400
I believe I remember hearing of them doing Rocky Horror recently, but but you said currently it's playing, is that on Broadway?
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:34.799
It's uh it's a play on Broadway.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.880
I think it originated as a play, it became a movie, and now it's back to being a play.
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:46.000
It's playing at Studio 54, the famous Studio 54 that was at one point a dance nightclub.
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:48.880
And it's now back to a theater and it's great.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.880
It's yeah, it's getting a lot of attention.
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:57.359
Uh it is where if you are someone who follows Rocky Horror, it's fun to go and see it live again.
00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:05.279
Yeah, and I I listened uh kind of leading up to this, I listened to your episode with Rachel Dretch on Woo-Woo, her podcast, where you talked about surviving death.
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:12.319
And uh it seemed like y'all had a lot of fun and uh obviously got into some UFOs and all that fun stuff.
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:13.680
Just yeah, fascinating stuff.
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:16.559
I imagine that's probably a podcast you would recommend.
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:20.480
Uh, do you all have any other podcast recommendations, ones that you love listening to?
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:21.680
I do like Woo Woo.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.079
I like for podcasts, Rachel Drash's Woo-woo.
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:25.920
I watch I listen to every podcast.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:27.039
How to choose one.
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:28.400
There's so many, right?
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:29.680
Oh my gosh.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:30.240
Yeah.
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:32.480
Now I feel like I can't say a single one.
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:34.720
What do you what do you listen to, Jesse?
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.799
I will say my podcasts are kind of boring.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:38.559
Like I do a lot of New York Times podcasts.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:42.079
Like I do like a lot of like the daily and like decline.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.960
Uh and I'm I'm I go pretty deep in serial.
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:48.000
Serial is good.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:48.640
Oh, yeah.
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:53.519
Jesse, I just listened to that, the one you told me, wings win winds of change.
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:54.720
Wind of change.
00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:54.960
Yeah.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.480
That's an excellent one for your audience.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:58.079
My favorite podcast of all time.
00:32:58.400 --> 00:32:58.880
Winds of Change.
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:19.920
Just say the premise is about So the basic premise is um Patrick Reedner Keefe, the investigative journalist, gets a job, uh, a grant to like be inside the CIA doing research and starts hearing this rumor that the song Wind of Change by Scorpion was an operation run by the CIA to destabilize the Soviet Union and make people want freedom.
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:25.599
And so he goes down this deep rabbit hole of was Scorpion really a CIA front?
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:27.440
And it's just amazing in all.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:29.680
I think I've listened to that one now that I think about it.
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:30.000
Yeah.
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.400
Yeah, it's about halfway through it.
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:33.039
It's so good.
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:34.000
Yeah.
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:36.400
Yeah, I I love a good limited series.
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:37.599
What do you like, Richard?
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:38.079
What is it?
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:39.279
So I like a good limited series.
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:39.839
I'm like you.
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:40.319
Yeah.
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:42.960
What's your go-to podcast?
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.160
Well, yeah, so I have I have different ones.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:48.880
I have some I go to just for laughs or to escape.
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:54.799
Like uh there's uh how did these get made is is one that I enjoy just for kind of an escape.
00:33:54.880 --> 00:34:08.000
And but yeah, if I'm if I'm getting a little more serious or if I want to do some research, I I usually get something that's like MPR adjacent or kind of I really like the I haven't listened to their newest season, I don't think, but uh Reveal.
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:12.239
Uh it's a really good investigative, like independent investigative journalism podcast.
00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:14.639
They kind of do some real deep dives into things.
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.400
Let's see, there was another one.
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:18.559
Shoot, my brains are on a blank through line.
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.880
Through line, which I think is MPR, if I'm not mistaken.
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:28.159
I like I like how they they trace the history from the past up until present present tense.
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.159
Because yeah, I'm often wondering like how did we get here or or what's the origins of this?
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:34.239
Or yeah, so they answer a lot of those questions.
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:48.800
Yeah, so I I like to nerd out about those, but then I I love some good entertainment podcast and love some good audio dramas, like Q Code puts out a lot of excellent stuff, like full production with some mainstream actors too, really good writing.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:49.440
So yeah.
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:50.880
I'm kind of all over the place.
00:34:51.119 --> 00:35:01.519
But uh, but yeah, I do often listen to the How Did This Get Made, and yeah, that's kind of my go-to escape podcast, I think, these days, at least here recently.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:02.639
So yeah.
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:04.400
Well, thank you both so much.
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:22.079
I know we went over just a little bit, but uh I've just really enjoyed talking to both of you and uh thank you for taking time to come on the podcast and congrats on getting the I know it was honorable mention with with River Run, and I'm sure you've gotten some other awards and will again in the future, getting picked up on HBO as well.
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:23.119
So y'all look out for that.
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:24.559
You say it's coming in the fall, correct?
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:25.280
Hotline.
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.039
So yeah, so listeners look out for that uh coming to HBO in the fall.
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:29.760
Thank you.
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:30.559
Awesome.
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:31.519
Great to meet you.
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.480
Thank you so much.
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:43.360
The Nerdhat podcast was produced in partnership with Nerdhat Productions, which is owned by me, Richard Best.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.679
So it's produced by me.
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:48.320
Wait, what is this music?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.159
Hold on just a second.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.639
Let me see if I can find my normal music.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:55.440
Hmm.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:58.079
There we go.
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:05.440
Okay, so the Nerdhat Podcast is produced by Nerdhat Productions.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:13.599
Uh I want to give a big thank you to my co-hosts Will Boyer and Laura Morales.
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:18.079
They have been such a big part of the success of this podcast.
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:20.000
It would not be possible without them.
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:21.199
I mean that sincerely.
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.920
I would have quit a long damn time ago.
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:34.000
Uh thanks also to all of our many collaborators and guests over the years, and most recently Elijah Miller, for giving us a new logo.
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:37.280
While I was involved in creating it, I did not do the artwork.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:39.760
He did it, and it was amazing.
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:51.840
So, the Nerd High Podcast was recorded by me, Richard Best, and edited by me, Richard Best, with a little bit of assistance from Riverside.fm.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.519
I appreciate that program.
00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:00.159
It has been very helpful for virtual recordings like on snow days, you know, things like that.
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:01.199
You name it.
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:03.199
Anyway, I digress.
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:09.519
Until next time, nerds, nerdhatters, nerdhets, assorted nerd persons.
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:13.760
Live long and prosper.
