Nerd Sesh - T-Wolves in trouble, Rockets soaring, Bucks figuring it out?

00:00:01
Speaker 1: The volume. Oh my god, how could he do that? Charles Darwin? The nerves is where it's at.

00:00:23
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody back NERD session as always, I'm Carson Reverend alongside me Isla Camden, and it is just a wonderful time of year. We got Thanksgiving right.

00:00:33
Speaker 3: Around the corner.

00:00:34
Speaker 2: The holiday season is really picking up. I personally am experiencing tons of cheer and whimsy and merriment. But you know who, unfortunately, is probably not experiencing all those joyful emotions, Logan, the Minnesota Timberwolves, who are sitting at eight and nine. They've had some rough losses over the last couple of weeks. How concerned are you about the Timberwolves Logan and what is wrong with them?

00:00:59
Speaker 1: I'm a little concerned, But honestly, Carson, I think I'm more optimistic about the Timberwolves than a lot of Timberwolves fans long term. And if you asked me what team I thought was most likely to do a one eighty from right now to the end of the season or from right now to the end of next season, I would say it's probably Minnesota. I think they're the team in the NBA that I feel the most different about relative to their record. I think they're I guess my sleeper. And we did our Top ten Contenders episode a couple of weeks back. I had Philadelphia in my top ten. I also had Los Angeles. I think I would slot Minnesota in there over Philadelphia. Still, even with their struggles, and you mentioned some of the heartbreakers. They were down nineteen versus Boston, they clawed all the way back in to barely lose that game. They were down eighteen versus Houston last night, they clawed all the way back in the fourth quarter to you know, just lose at the end. And that has been a big problem for Minnesota digging themselves these really big holes. They're still a little disjointed offensively, They're committing bad and undisciplined turnovers. The half court offense has been stalling out, and their defense isn't as dominant. Right, that was what the foundation of this basketball team was built upon. Last year they were number one in defensive rating. Now their twelfth in defensive rating. They were they were the number five transition defense last year. Now they're number fourteen. They're just league average. But I kind of see the vision, and I ultimately lean on the side of I think this team is going to figure it out.

00:02:38
Speaker 4: One because they have.

00:02:39
Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards, but also because I think they just have too many good basketball players in the rotation for them to not eventually figure it out. And I want to be clear about something when I say this, I think the Timberwolves have actively gotten worse from last year. Obviously, if you could go back and not do the Cat trade, I wouldn't do it because I think it was a fundamental misstep in this franchise. Right you got closer to the NBA Finals than you ever have been before, and then you sell your soul. Basically, you just give up on that future and that potential. And I get it because of the salary cap implications and stuff like that. But I just can't believe that Minnesota is actually this bad. Like, they just have so many good basketball players that I believe in, and I just think they're figuring it out. Carson. I think we're just in that like weird transition phase where this team is gelling together and trying to figure out the Kingston. Don't get me wrong, I think there's there's genuine holes in this rotation. I would love if they had another defensive minded big man off the bench or another big defensive wing. I think nas Reed playing a ton of five minutes. He's not a big defender. Right With go Baron Kat, you could have quality center play. It may not be elite defense, but go Baron Kat could float you for the entire game. I think that you're feeling the effects of Mike Conly struggling and not being out on the court. He struggled this entire year. Dante DiVincenzo has struggled this entire year shooting the basketball right. I'm not saying there haven't been issues, but they don't feel that far away to me. I still believe this team is really talented top to bottom, and I just think they're figuring out the kinks of a lot of new basketball players in the city. So a lot of my faith in this team has to do with my belief in Anthony Edwards as one of the building blocks of the NBA right now, one of the core guys that you would want more than anybody else in basketball. With Gobat still being able to bring your defense up to a certain baseline, and Julius Randall's played better than I thought like honestly, Julius Randall hasn't. He hasn't been great, but he's been better than I expected. So I just think there's too and there's too many talented guys that I believe in and I don't know, man, I really rock with Rob dylan An too. He doesn't really have a big I just wanted to give him a shout out here at the end. I like Rob dilling An minutes. Man. He gave them some juice last night against Houston, and I really like his long term prospects with this team. But it's strange, Carson, every Timberwolves fan. I talked to our friend Donnie, some friends of the show in our discord and stuff. They're all dejected. They are all miserable right now. They are down in the depths. They are really pessimistic about this basketball team. They are in turmoil. So I tend to be more optimistic about this team. Where do you come down? Are you optimistic about their long term prospects and where do you think they've come up short in the beginning of this season.

00:05:40
Speaker 2: I'm more worried about the Timberwolves than you are. And I've been saying even before they went into this skid where they've dropped six of eight, and they lost back to back games to the Blazers, and they lost to the Raptors, which are some really bad losses that out of the teams who preseason in the West had high expectations but early in the year have been hovering around five hundred. If that's Dallas, if that's Denver. Out of that group, I've been most concerned about Minnesota. Some of this stuff I do think is going to get better. Dante DiVincenzo has been in a brutal slump, and he's an elite shooter. I absolutely think that he will play better basketball later in the year. I also think it's not that surprising when you make a major change like they did, that you would have issues with fit early in the year. That was one of my concerns with the Randall trade, that you are coming off of your high point as a team and now you're hitting the reset button to some extent, because we saw how difficult the first year with Kat and Gobert was, so it's not some shocker that they would have some growing pains in some early season struggles now that they have brought in Randall and changed up this roster. But I think that there is a lot wrong. Beyond that, to me, there is cause for long term concern here. I think there are structural problems with this roster. There is just not enough offensive skill here, and I think that you're seeing that in new numerous ways. I think that you are feeling the lack of a lead playmaker in this offense, which is where Mike Conley has been so important as that sort of steady, good decision maker who's just going to be able to run, pick and roll and get the ball to the right guys in the right spots. Anthony Edwards is not meant to be a lead playmaker. Julius Randall obviously is not that. And particularly I think you're seeing just sort of a divide between those primary ball handlers and Rudy Gobert.

00:07:29
Speaker 3: In this offense.

00:07:29
Speaker 2: Right now, there is less faith in Gobar than ever before. He's attempting six point two shots per game. That is easily his lowest since twenty sixteen. He led the league in paint touches last year with almost eleven a game. He's just eleventh in paint touches this year, under nine per game. And I think you see that Randall and Ant just don't trust him. They don't trust him because of his bad hands, They don't trust him because of his lack of skill as a finisher. They don't trust him because if you send two to the ball and he's catching the ball with a four on three but he's closer to the free throw line, that they don't necessarily trust his ability to make decisions in those circumstances. But if you don't pass him the ball and the defense is sending two to the ball when you're running pick and roll, you're negating your advantages. Right, You're basically just saying, Okay, now can I dribble out of this situation? And we're just gonna reset. And Gobert has many limitations offensively. The lack of skill that he does have is the reason that I don't think you've ever been able to argue that he's a real positive offensive player, although some have tried. This has always been an issue, but it's worse now than ever before. They don't want to get him the ball. And then on top of that, you add that Conley, who I mentioned, has been important because of his decision making and his passing in this offense has just been brutal. Now he's been out the last few games, but he's seven points per game on the year, forty eight percent through shooting, averaging point six field goals made per game inside the arc. So that's a guy who you're not even sure that you can really play. His age may have just hit a wall and regressed for good. Then you add in the fact that I didn't like the Julius Randall trade because I don't think he's as reliable in offensive number two, because he's obviously a shooting downgrade from Kat And that's another problem that this offense has right now. The spot up, shooting, the spacing is not good. Jaden McDaniels is a problem offensively right now. He's under thirty percent from deep and you see in the Rockets game they are willing to aggressively help off of him leave him, and the Minnesota offense isn't punishing them for that. So McDaniels absolutely has to be better than this. He's never going to be a high volume three point shooter. But when he's not taking a lot of them, and he's not making them, and he's not really bringing you much else in terms of anything off the bounce right or playmaking, that's problematic. That's a hole in this offense. And you'll look at Minnesota's bottom line three point shooting numbers, and they're not bad, right. They're seventh in makes, they're eleventh and three point percentage. A lot of that is just ants pull up shooting, though, and I think that Ant's three point shooting in general this year has been doing a lot to carry this whole offense. Minnesota is actually twenty fourth in catch and shoot makes, they're twenty third in catch and shoot percentage. They haven't been good there. At has just been out of his mind putting up twelve threes a night, making forty two percent of them. But you see he's not as confident attacking downhill with this spacing. His free throws per game are down almost two from last season. He's driving two fewer times per game. His assists are at their lowest since his rookie season. So offensively, I have real concerns here, and I absolutely think that they've taken a step back from last year in terms of playmaking, in terms of spacing, in terms of how much I trust their number two, And on top of that, their defense has taken a big step back. Randall is a significant downgrade from Kat at the four because of what Kat did on the glass, because of what Kat did guarding the post, because of what he did as a secondary rim protector. As we've talked about, bad defense, much better defensive four than Julius Randall is, who really is just consistently pretty disengaged and very limited on that end. Rudy hasn't been the same defender that he was last year. He's only holding opposing players six and a half percent below their average field goal percentage at the rim. That is not the DePoy level defender they were used to that we saw last year. And I don't think their focus and their effort has been the same defensively, and that's a concern with this team. The chemistry right now is bad. You have against the Raptors. I believe it was go Bear taking the offensive three second call late in the game, and then he and Ant are going at it like the vibes are horrible here and the vibes can get better. Okay, maybe that stuff does improve, but I'm telling you, the roster construction, to me, is too flawed. They're obviously gonna play better than this. I don't think they're a sub five hundred team. But do I think they are in any world a contender. No, I don't.

00:11:54
Speaker 4: No, they're not right now, They're not close.

00:11:56
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm saying is I think these kinks are gonna have to work themselves out over probably another season. I think this season is sadly just a punt, you know what I mean. I think you're punting to a different timeline, and that's always painful when you have a guy like Anthony Edwards when you were so close last year the three second call that sucked because Gobart clearly had the smaller defender on him where he had gotten the seal. And it's like, bro, just throw him the ball. Like, if go Beart misses that layup, I don't even care. He's probably gonna get the offensive rebound and go right back up with that MF like. It is frustrating, though, Carson, you know, I was always afraid of the baseball. I played baseball for a very long time, dude. It was my sport. I played it for over.

00:12:38
Speaker 4: A decade, and I sucked.

00:12:41
Speaker 1: I was horrible. I was a horrible baseball player for the first five or six years that I played. Why I was scared of the baseball. You know what broke me out of it. I got hit square in between my eyes with a fly ball, and I cut myself. You could see the seam of the baseball imprinted on my forehead. For a long time after that, I wasn't scared of the baseball anymore, and I became a really good player. It is shocking to me that, like go beart, dude, he's gangly, he's uncoordinated, and he's scared of the basketball. Dude, he just doesn't want it. So I understand, Like, I.

00:13:15
Speaker 2: Don't think it's on him. I think that he does want it. He's not good when it's in his hands. But again, if you are just negating an advantage, you're losing.

00:13:24
Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying it's a balance. I think there's sometimes where Gobert is genuinely afraid of getting the ball in his hands, and then it's other times where Randal and Ant are probably so fed up with him losing the rock or missing a layup, and they're like, well, I'd rather just take a pull up jumper and live with it and see what happens. So I can understand it on both sides, is what I'm I think it's a double sided you know, I think it's both sides of the coin. But I tend to agree with you. If you're getting doubled, just make the smart play and live with it.

00:13:51
Speaker 2: Like, and I don't actually think that Gobert is a bad short role decision maker, right, Like, yes, he can be flustered, absolutely, he can travel like he has major coordination skill issues. But if he is able to just get a clean opportunity to dissect a four on three, he can do it right, he can find the shooter. But I really think it's a lack of faith from the other dudes in this offense, because I think that Cat and Conley are the only dudes who actually trust Gobert to finish around the rim. And you also see this, it's not just off the role caton Conley. But Cat's gone now, Oh from last year, he was a guy who you could actually trust to hit Gobert with a laydown pass to run their big on big pick and roll. And now you've lost him from this offense. And at the end of the day, if you get a massive dude the ball around the rim, things tend to happen. Like, yeah, it's frustrating he's going to fumble some of these situations. He's not a good offensive player, but a lob to Rudy Gobert is a good play generally, if you find him off the roll against a much smaller defender, it's generally a good play. If you even feed him with a mismatch off of a post up that was really effective.

00:15:03
Speaker 3: Last year.

00:15:04
Speaker 2: Gobart was an eighty seven percentile post scorer. And it's gonna be ugly as hell, and like, yeah, there's gonna be some spot three. You go, dude, how did you not score there? But he's only doing it selectively when he has an obvious mismatch. In this year, go Bear is averaging a third of the post ups. He was averaging one point two post ups per game last year. He's averaging point four this season. So they're just not giving him the ball, And like, I get it, but also it's too much. It's to the detriment of this offense.

00:15:32
Speaker 1: And traditional basketball theory says too, when you get a paint touch, good things are gonna happen. Defenders on the outside collapse in he can either you know, kick it out to an open shooter. But that's where I kind of am with this team. I view it as not a lack of talent. I view it as a chemistry thing. And I think you bring up some valid concerns with their skill sets and how it isn't conducive to, you know, easy offense. It's not, you know, the go bear stalwarts that he you know, it's a wall that walls you all from having easy offense when you have a guy out there like Gobert. But I tend to think that this team is just too talented to not eventually work out these kinks and figure this out. And again, I don't know if it's gonna be this year. This could be problematic the entire year, and they may not figure it out until a year from now. But I just think they're too talented. In some crazy stats, I found Carson the third best five man lineup minimum one hundred possessions this year. This is based on point differential. Third best lineup is Minnesota Mike Conley, Dante, DiVincenzo, Nikkeil, Alexander Walker, Naz Reid and Rudy Gobaert. The sixth best five man lineup in basketball this season is also Minnesota, Anthony Edwards Dante DiVincenzo Nikkeil, Alexander Walker, Julius Randall, and nas Reed.

00:16:50
Speaker 3: Like I do think sample size is important with this.

00:16:53
Speaker 1: These are small samples, but I'm saying is that they have I don't think this is a I think this is a chemistry issue. I don't think this is a basketball talent issue. I think Conley's regression is real. I think the offensive fit issues are real.

00:17:07
Speaker 4: But I just think this team is a lot better than this.

00:17:10
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I think Randal and Edwards have to trust go Bear more.

00:17:18
Speaker 2: But have you ever seen a big man trusted less?

00:17:21
Speaker 1: No with And this has been a I think it's been.

00:17:24
Speaker 2: A thing, but it's worse now than ever before. I mean to play that high drop where for all intensive purposes they're sending two to the ball and just wouldn't even look at Gobert half the time. But now it's worse. I mean by every metric, Fewer paint touches, fewer field goal attempts. And I do think I think from this offense, I agree with this out.

00:17:43
Speaker 1: A well connected team is always gonna beat a team with more talent that is playing disjointed basketball that is just fundamentally true when you were playing, and that is the hump that I think Minnesota has to get over. Carson. I think this is gonna sound so corny. I'm gonna sound like Jackie Moon from Semi pro E l E. Everybody love everybody, but it's you gotta go fight for your brother. You gotta love him, and more importantly, you have to trust him, and he's gonna fuck up. That's the Go Bear experience. Go Bear is going to screw up. But I agree with you. I don't think Randal and Edwards like go Beart, and I think that's a problem too. Is just like fundamentally, I think they would probably not have rather not have him on the team, and I think they gotta trust him, and I think they got to figure this out, and I'm not confident that they're gonna figure this out this year, but I think again, man, I just come back to it. I look at this team top to bottom, and I think they're too talented to be this bad.

00:18:40
Speaker 2: They are too talented to be this bad. But that doesn't erase my concerns. And I really think what they need to figure out is how to replace Mike Conley. And I don't think that happens this year, but they were always You don't.

00:18:51
Speaker 1: Think it fig you don't think it's Rob Dillingham.

00:18:54
Speaker 3: I really like Rob.

00:18:56
Speaker 2: I really do too gifted score, he's shifty, he's a dynasm any shotmaker. Off the bat, he's got playmaker.

00:19:02
Speaker 1: I kind of like how he tease up the offense. I mean, this team plays faster, they get out in transition when Rob's on the floor. And for the most part, I like his decision making, like I like how he will set guys up for success.

00:19:15
Speaker 2: It's not a talent thing with Rob, it's a Mike Conley has been winning basketball games in the NBA since two thousand and seven, and Conley, for his athletic limitations, defensively, is a more functional cog in the machine. He's bigger, he's got long ass arms, He's a very smart defensive player because of all of his experience. He's a reliable over the last couple of years, forty percent three point shooter. And I still trust his decision making more than I do a Dillingham. That's what they're going to need to figure out. And maybe it is Dillingham long term, right, somebody who is more of a true playmaker in this offense, but they don't have it right now, and they are really feeling that absence. And I think that they're twenty fifth in assist to turnover percentage. Right Like, all these metrics are just saying we don't have enough playmaking, we don't have enough shooting right now outside of Ant just doing this ridiculous stuff. It's concerning. I think there's a lot of cost for concern. Jayden just needs to be way better. Also, like Jaden has been a bad offensive player this year. So yeah, I don't feel good about the Timberwolves at all.

00:20:17
Speaker 1: And that's what sucks too, is just fundamentally like Houston last night, right Like, you're content with is leaving Gobert alone because nobody's gonna get him the ball. You're content with leading McDaniels alone because he's not gonna make you pay. And like I said, there's so much wrong right now that I think the pendulum is gonna swing back in Minnesota's favor. And I don't know, man, I felt something last night watching that Houston game, watching Rob step on the court and they go on this run to close the gap, and I saw life for the first time out of Minnesota in what felt like weeks And what sucks too is the end of this game. I'm not putting this on ant and is the only reason this team is relevant. He is a superstar, but like you know, he takes a pull up jumper at the end, and I'm like, damn, man, and I don't know, like you said, there's structural issues too, like the spacing sucks. I think it's gonna balance itself out, man. I think the Timberwolves. Donnie friend of the show always keeps telling me, Man, it just feels like twenty twenty two. It feels like twenty twenty two, and that may be the reality of the situation is that it's just not this year.

00:21:22
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's old though. That's hard when you have major paton it is. He says, who are gonna need it? Is bro replaced And you were just in the Western Conference finals last.

00:21:31
Speaker 1: Year and hear me out, my crystal ball says, Rob Dillingham is the guy, Okay that he is gonna be able to step into a bigger role next season. You've got Terrence Shannon Junior tearing it up in the G League. I think he is going to be a rotational guy. Next season because you got off a cat, you can pay nas Reed. You know you're hopefully you're able to keep in a dub you're able to keep. You know, you've got McDaniels and an under contract. It's not perfect. I mean, I think in an ideal scenario, you just hold on the cat and let this thing ride.

00:21:59
Speaker 2: And yeah, you still need to figure out the Gobert situation. Offensively, you need to see as a number two option you can trust and if he can play at a capable level defensively, do you think we could reach anything?

00:22:14
Speaker 1: Logan, do you think you could we could reach a point this season or next that you look at, Goberts just spoil goods with this team and it may just be better to lean into like an offensive oriented attack. Or does he do too much defensively?

00:22:26
Speaker 2: He does too much defensively. I mean, I think that this team would be in a brutal spot defensively without him this year, even though he hasn't been as.

00:22:32
Speaker 3: Good as we're used to.

00:22:34
Speaker 2: My concern with Gobert is, yeah, he does limit you offensively, but I think he is so essential to this team defensively that they can't move off of him. But he does limit their offensive ceiling, and he is just getting older, and like, if you are going to give up on your number two to say, okay, we want to be more flexible long term, which is what they did with Kat basically in my eyes, because I don't think that they thought Julius Randall was a better basketball player than Kat. Well, that's difficult to do when Mike Conley's thirty seven and Rudy Gobert is thirty two at this point. That's what's hard for me With Minnesota. I'm gonna hold on that they've clearly, clearly taken a step back at a time when it was not ideal to do so.

00:23:18
Speaker 1: I completely agree, But I'm holding onto my Minnesota stock man. I'm hoping, I'm praying, and I'm optimistic that this is the absolute bottom for Minnesota.

00:23:27
Speaker 2: Look, the window's going to be open with Ant for a long time, so long as things don't get so bad that he asks out right. So that is the saving grace of all this. It's just tough when you were that close and you had a really good formula in place, and you shook things up in a way that we didn't like at the time, and that hasn't looked good at all so far, but let's give some credit to the team that beat them Logan last night. Most recently, because the Houston Rockets have been one of the most impressive teams in the league this year, and they've been hot as of late. They've won eight of ten. They're thirteen and six, third in the West. Is is this a team that can win a playoff series?

00:24:02
Speaker 1: Not right now. I wouldn't pick Houston to win a playoff series. And they really have been impressive. Man, they are the thirteen and six. They're eight and two over their last ten. They're number one in defensive rating ninety eight point seven. That's over the last ten, that's ridiculous, the number two in net rating plus twelve. Still in this stretch, they are tied twentieth an offensive rating at one ten point seven. And I really trust this defense. They have so many disruptive defenders Amen Thompson, Dylan Brooks, Jabari Smith Junior, Tarry Easton. There's just nobody to attack. And Seng Goon, as we brought up last show, has really improved as a rim protector. He's eleventh in defensive field goal percentage inside six feet that's minimum ten games played, five defensive field goal attempts per game, but he's holding players eight point seven percent worse than their average field goal percentage inside six feet. That's a four percent improvement from last season, which is a big step up. And I was always opt to mystic about Sengoon as a rim protector relative to guys in his archetype. Right. I think the first guy that you point to is a Demonta Sabonis in Sacramento, and Sabonis is not a rim protector at all, right, but Sengoon at least had some verticality to him where you could go, okay, maybe he could be a rim protector. And I think you've seen him improve there. And that is the identity of this basketball team. And I got to tip my cap to Emo Udoka and all these young guys for buying in and making that the foundation of their basketball team. They are number one in field goal attempts per game. They are great at creating extra possessions and grinding you out. They're number one in rebounds per game, They're number three in rebound percentage. There are number two in offensive rebound percentage, and they're number seven in stocks per game. I texted you this before the show just because it fascinated me. Too small sample sized, Granted, like I mentioned with Minnesota, they have the best five man lineup in basketball right now with Voleet, Amen Thompson, Dylan Brooks, Jabari Smith Junior and Sengoon. And I think you tweeted out about Brooks and Thompson when they shared the floor together too.

00:26:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have an insanely low defensive rating together, and if you put Tari into that trio makes the sample size even smaller. But the defensive rating is even naster somewhere in the eighties when I checked several days ago.

00:26:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just there's no personnel to attack. They that five man lineup as a plus thirty six point four point differential per one hundred possessions. Ridiculous. The thing we circle back to, I just don't trust their offense enough, man, I just really don't. And they would really need to have someone reliable step up as their offensive leader. Their number sixteen in offensive rating, they are number twenty four and a half court offensive rating, and I was really hoping it was gonna be Jayalen Green this season. Jayalen Green is the fourth lowest true shooting percentage of any fifteen point game score. Fred Van Vliet has the six lowest true shooting percentage of any fifteen point per game scorer. So it's like, I can already see what's gonna happen when the Rockets get to the playoffs. They're gonna muck it up. It is gonna be a rock fight, a defensive, grimy, nasty series. But I just don't know if they're gonna produce enough offensively to pull it out. They don't have a perimeter creator that I believe in. And you know you said this a couple of weeks ago, Carston, and I was optimistic that, I don't know, Jalen Green would have a better stretch or something like that, or I'd get a glimpse of hope. At this point, dude, I just don't want him on my basketball team. I think i'd rather trade Jellen Green for a winner, a guy who is going to play smart, winning basket. I think he might be spoiled goods. And it's not the talent we always talk. It's not the talent at all, dude. He gives you the flashes every single game, but it's about knowing how to weaponize your talent and to create advantages and to generate high quality shots. And Jalen Green doesn't do that. He uses all this talent and ability to shoot low quality and generate low quality shots. And people might point, oh, well, you know they've got seng Gooon too. It's not just Van Vliet and uh Jalen Green. I don't trust send Goon enough to be like your offensive hub or number one. And so that's where I'm at. I love the foundation, I love the identity. I love this ceiling. I love a lot of the guys up and down this roster, and it's gonna win Houston a lot of regular season games because they're gonna out hustle you, they're gonna outwork you, they're gonna win defensive basketball games. But when we look through the prism to a basketball playoff series, I just don't trust their offense enough. And there's I don't know if there's anything that can happen this season outside of Jalen Green turning the corner or Sengoon turning into a offensive number one that is gonna make me fundamentally move off of that.

00:28:51
Speaker 4: I really like Houston.

00:28:53
Speaker 1: I don't love Houston and what is stobbing me from loving them is their limitations offensively.

00:28:58
Speaker 2: I'm with you, and look, this has been a super or successful season for Houston. I think because of how young they are, and I think that they're achieving their goals. When they went out and they brought in Van Vliet and they brought in Dylan Brooks, it was, hey, we're gonna add a winning mentality and that's what imo Udoka was all about. And we've got all the young talent, all the draft picks in the world. We don't need to keep racking up these top picks, even though they did it again last year with Reed Sheppard. We want to become a professional basketball team because a couple of years ago, I mean, this felt more like an AAU team than anyone else in basketball.

00:29:29
Speaker 3: And they have.

00:29:30
Speaker 2: Unequivocally achieved that. What they are doing defensively, considering how young their core is, is wildly impressive. And there's actually been a trend this year. I tweeted about this the other day, but of the eight youngest teams in the league, four of them have top six defenses right now. We've seen it with OKC, We've seen it with Orlando, We've seen it with at Memphis, and we've really seen it with Houston. These young perimeter athletes who are high motor guys balls to the wall are coming in and making really pronounced impacts, and that's what Houston has. But that is in many ways like the prototypical formula for good regular season team, underwhelming playoff team. They remind me a lot of the Memphis teams from like twenty twenty one to twenty twenty three, if they didn't have a Ja Morant, because those teams were deep, they were well coached, they were going to play their asses off defensively, they were young, they were hungry, but they were a really bad half court offense. And that's what Houston is, right. They're a seventeenth percentile half court offense. The only difference is at least Jaw could go out there and with his flaws, had the ability to play a superstar at his level for a few games. There's nobody in this Houston offense who can do that. There is no number one in this offense. So I love their defense, I love their athleticism, I love him and Thompson. I think he's going to be a star. I've been saying that since he was drafted. I love Tar Easton. I think he is one of the most winning young players in basketball. Shanng Goun deserves his credit for really improving defensively, but you don't win a playoff series with a seventeenth percentile half court offense. There's really not a single dude here who I trust to consistently create a good shot in this offense in the half court. I do really like shng Goon as a playmaking hub and as a skilled post scorer, but as we talked about, he still struggles with efficiency. He's not bringing the floor spacing you would want. He can fall a little bit too much in love with some of those tougher touch shots, mid range shots where it's not super efficient. So, like, do I believe in him as a playoff number one who can go out there and win you a series.

00:31:32
Speaker 3: I don't.

00:31:33
Speaker 2: And the shooting here is bad. They're twenty fifth and three is made twenty fifth and three point percentage. I like Van Vliet's playmaking, but when you're that limited an athlete, right, it's just tough to consistently create good shots. He's really reliant on his pull up shooting and Jalen Green, Man, I don't even know if I had a full understanding of how brutal the numbers are. I mean, I've been watching a ton of the Rockets this year, and I have been critical of Jalen Green, but this is insane, Dude. He's thirty percent from deep, he is twenty three percent from mid range, and he's taking a lot of those shots. He's ten of forty three. He is twenty one percent in the paint outside the restricted airgage.

00:32:11
Speaker 1: I mean, he's just driving into crowded lanes. Dude.

00:32:14
Speaker 3: It's so really, it's so brutal.

00:32:17
Speaker 2: The shot selection is so so bad, and he's competing more defensively, but there are just dudes who are significantly better defenders still, who are going to make more winning plays and who aren't going to take your offense out of rhythm and force bad shots in a way that a Jalen Green is.

00:32:36
Speaker 1: You all just wait some questions, dude.

00:32:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do need somebody on this roster to step up as an offensive number one, but I don't think it's Jalen Green. I just haven't seen the growth that I would have needed offensively. I mean, this has been his worst season offensively, arguably.

00:32:53
Speaker 3: Which is tough for the Rockets.

00:32:54
Speaker 2: But at the same time, you don't need him, you have so much talent around him. I think the people have been too hard on Jabari Smith. There was like this whole reckoning earlier in the year about how Jabari Smith was a bust. First of all, I think a lot of people didn't know what to expect from Javari Smith.

00:33:09
Speaker 3: And I've talked about this before. He was never some.

00:33:11
Speaker 2: Dazzling wing who's beating dudes off the bounds.

00:33:14
Speaker 3: No, he was Smith.

00:33:15
Speaker 1: He's a winner, he's.

00:33:17
Speaker 3: A two way player.

00:33:18
Speaker 2: He's a really good shooter, and he hasn't been as good of a shooter as I would have hoped he was as a prospect, but he was also just in a really bad slump earlier this year. He's a solid, two way, winning one.

00:33:28
Speaker 4: I think he's a dog defensively, man, he is.

00:33:31
Speaker 2: He's a really really good defensive player. That was his entire value as a prospect to me. I was like, this, dude is a big ass three and D wing, And that's why I never thought that he was. In conversations with Cheed, I never thought he was as good of a prospect as Paolo, but I still think that he's a guy who I want on my team at the end of the day. So tons to like with Houston, But yeah, they are again basically the prototype for that can win high forties, maybe fifty regular season games on the back of their defense and their effort and their athleticism. But you get them in a playoff series against a Dallas or a Denver or the Lakers, or Phoenix or Golden State, all these teams that have superstars.

00:34:11
Speaker 3: All these teams that have much better.

00:34:13
Speaker 2: Half court offenses, that have better shooting, that have more reliable decision makers, and there's just no chance that I'm betting on the Rockets offense.

00:34:23
Speaker 1: I got a couple of questions about Reed Shepherd. Okay, one, do you think he could be the number one offensive? Do you see that kind of ceiling with with Reed? Not as a scorer necessarily, but just as a guy who can generate good looks and score more efficiently.

00:34:40
Speaker 2: Honestly, I see an older Red as playing a pretty similar role to Van Vliet, where he's more of a floor general. He's an awesome pull up shooter. I think he's a better shooter than Van Vliet. I think that he can be a better defender. But both guys who are undersized but are dogs defensively make the absolute most most of their physical gifts there. But I don't think that Reid has the shot creation or the next level playmaking to be.

00:35:08
Speaker 3: A number one offensively. I never have.

00:35:10
Speaker 2: I've always thought super high floor guy, dude to I would love to have as my third option. Think kind of a potential Derek White. Not as great defensively, but that sort of winning impact Derek White is insane. I'm not saying as good of a version, but that archetype, but not a number one.

00:35:27
Speaker 4: Do you think they'd be better if they gave him more burn now?

00:35:31
Speaker 2: No, not really. I mean he's kind of struggled this year. I haven't really been super impressed by a lot of his shifts, and I don't think that they need him out there. I mean, I think they get their big athletes on the floor. I kind of love that they've really just been playing these seven dudes all a lot of minutes. Because you're getting Tari out on the floor for twenty five minutes a night, you're getting a man on the floor for close to thirty minutes a night. Recently, it's felt like I don't think that they need to be overplaying Reid because he's not as impactful as these other guys right now.

00:36:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, the only reason why I said it is just it sucks that you're so close, you feel like you know on one side of the basketball, and then on the other you're just it feels like they're far away, and far away enough to where I wouldn't favor them in a play, even if they were the high seed, even if they have home court, I would pick them to get beat by a lot of as what I as what I think ant big dogs.

00:36:23
Speaker 4: You in that series.

00:36:25
Speaker 3: It's hard.

00:36:25
Speaker 2: It's hard if you don't have that guy, and it's hard if you don't even have that offensive skill in the aggregate. But again, I think that Reid has look a little outmatched athletically at times. I think he's struggled scoring inside the arcs. So I don't think that he's the answer for this year. Shout out to the Kentucky guards him and Rob Dillingham. Both we're talking about what they can do for their teams, But I don't think that either one is the answer right now. And again, Houston's got other dudes who deserve to be playing over him. Shall we talk about another team in the great State of Texas Logan, Another young team that is making a playoff early in the year, the San Antonio Spurs Logan have won four straight games now, and a lot of that was on the back of NBA Player of the Week Harrison Barnes. Can we give a quick round of applause to Western Conference Player the Week Harrison Barnes? A lot of it also, though, even though they did a couple of wins without Wemby, is because the victor won Moonyama, who has been playing incredible basketball as of late.

00:37:25
Speaker 3: Do you think Wemby can carry the Spurs to the playoffs? Logan?

00:37:29
Speaker 4: No, No, I.

00:37:33
Speaker 3: Mean, like, great segment, thank you, there is a way.

00:37:40
Speaker 1: I'm gonna save that for later in the show. But I just think there's teams that just have way more talent like that I believe in, Like, what Wemby's doing is kind of ridiculous. Recently you mentioned the four game winning streak. This is just Wemby's last six games. He's thirty three eleven and four on sixty eight percent true shooting with three and a half blocks per game. Dude, he's pulling thirteen threes a night and he's banging them.

00:38:11
Speaker 4: It's kind of ridiculous, Like, dude, his.

00:38:14
Speaker 1: I think it's going in when when Wemby starts in that triple threat and gives a jab step or just pulls up. I mean, is Wenby just gonna be an elite shooter? Is he just gonna do this? I don't know, man, It's like an unblockable shot, like if Wenby figures it out from behind the art. Dude, I'm pulling thirteen threes a game. I mean, he's making them like. It's ridiculous. Bro. I he's got Walker Kesseler standing on him and he it doesn't matter. Man, he's dropping bombs. I still think the Spurs just rotationally are too far away. I will give them credit, though, man, Chris Paul, I think was such an awesome ad just having that stabilizing presence. I know that everybody talked about that in the offseason in the beginning of this year, but it's true. Just having a guy that can feed Wemby in the right spots and run some two man game and pick and roll and create little advantages for him has made all the difference in the world because Wenby is Wemby is the greatest prospect that we've ever seen with his ability, with his skill and talent rolled up into this kind of body, and how we can change the game defensively. Having a guy that could just set the table for him makes his life so much easier. And it's been him. It's having a real NBA player in Harrison Barnes. But the rest of this roster I think is just too young and too far away. But I don't know, man, if this is a real again, it's a small sample size, Like if you look back ten games, he's down to like thirty eight percent, right, which is still very very good for Wemby, don't get me wrong, but over forty percent has a lot to expect for an extended jump. But I don't know, man. If Wenby keeps hitting three is like this, dude, I'm afraid for the league. Bro.

00:39:57
Speaker 4: This is an unstoppable, unblockable shot.

00:40:00
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I honestly think that overall, his percentage where it's at right now on the year, which is thirty four point.

00:40:07
Speaker 3: Five, is similar to where it'll end up.

00:40:10
Speaker 2: Maybe he gets up to like a thirty six, but he was really struggling early in the year, and now he's been super hot as of late. I think overall he's gonna settle somewhere in that thirty five thirty six percent range. But I mean, he's been out of his mind, and this is the top fifteen player that we hope to see. This is why early in the year when we talked about some of the struggles that he was having offensively and really relying on the jumpers and creating from the perimeter and not getting as much of that easy offense manufactured for him. Those were all issues at the time. I also made sure to say, don't underestimate how much better this dude can start playing like that, because this was the arc last year. Right, he comes out of the gate and he's struggling with efficiency, and a couple months into the season, all of a sudden, he's playing like a star. And then later in the season he's playing like a top twenty guy. Right, he just keeps getting better and better, sometimes exponentially, and on the year.

00:41:04
Speaker 3: Now you mentioned his stats are over the last six games.

00:41:07
Speaker 2: As a whole, he's giving you twenty four to ten three five stocks a night on sixty percent through shooting absolutely playing better basketball than he was last year. It is awesome that he's shooting so much better. I also think when it comes to his three point volume, the kinds of shots that he's taking matter to me. I really like picking pop looks for him. I like looks as a transition trailer for him. I understand that he shot better on pull ups last year than he did on shots off the catch. Overall, though, I just prefer in most ways Wenby not being asked to create off the bounce. And I think we've seen this year right when is he efficient as a roller that includes pops but he gives you one point one to nine points per possession, that's awesome. He's either popping and he has this KP likability. That's really who it reminds me of most. When I watch him shoot to stand twenty eight feet out right, he's got the deep range and he can just shoot these lasers and nobody can get out and contest him. They can't affect him at all. That kind of range at that height is really ridiculous. But he's either getting those pop looks or he's rolling and he's the biggest target around the rim that we've ever seen transition. He's always been great because of what he can do as a trailer. He's also just faster than other bigs, and in the open court, if you can find him around the rim.

00:42:21
Speaker 3: That's unstoppable.

00:42:22
Speaker 2: As a post player, sixty seventh percentile efficiency, Right, he's not the most comfortable post player yet, but he's still just so massive that he has real advantages there and he's skilled enough to score pretty efficiently. Where's he inefficient on the flip side of that when you ask him to create out of isolation? Twenty eighth percentile? When you ask him to create out a pick and roll, He's only been eighteenth percentile as a pick and roll ball handler this year. Small sample size, sure, but as I've always said, the dude is incredibly skilled for seven foot four. He is not a wing though, and he can have some trouble with the handle. He can have some trouble getting a step on dudes getting down. So I still think he's taking a really really high volume of threes because even when you compare him to like the other elite floor spacing bigs, right, Kat takes five threes a game. KP takes about five threes a game. The difference that I can hear out is that those guys are much more grown men, and so they are much more effective post scores. They are more comfortable scoring inside the arc, and I get that Wemby isn't at that stage yet, but I don't want him to become overly reliant on the three ball.

00:43:31
Speaker 3: Right now.

00:43:32
Speaker 2: Here're the only dude's taking more threes per game than Victor wan Manyama, who's taking nine point three Lamello, Aunt Tatum, Luca, Brandon Miller, Tyler Hero, Steph Malik Beasley. He is right in front of Damian Lillard, Derek White, Donovan Mitchell, Kobe White, Tyrese Haliburt, and Trey Young, Peyton Pritchard. Like it's it's a bit crazy to me, and he is making them right now. But as we talked about earlier, good things happen when you get paint touches, especially for a massive human being like Victor wen Manyama, So I think there's still a little bit more of a balance to be struck there. Also, more than the threes, I don't love the mid range for him, because he's been taking more mid range jumpers this year and he's just shooting thirty four percent. All that to say, these are the little things that I would like to see Wemby adjust. But he's having a monstrous, monstrous, superstar level impact on the game. And we're talking about his offense because that's where the numbers have just been eye popping as of late. But at this point, I think he'd also have to be your defensive player of the year. I mean, the fact that he has this Spurs group as a top ten defense is incredible. And obviously he's leading the league in blocks by far, no surprise there. The defense is seven and a half points per one hundred possessions better. With him on the floor, he's holding opposing players twenty percent below their average field goal percentage at the rim.

00:44:49
Speaker 3: It's just incredible.

00:44:50
Speaker 2: I mean, just his sheer size alone makes such a massive impact on the game, and then when the skills stuff is clicking along with that, it's just nothing you can I mean, he's just going to dominate on both ends. I don't think the Spurs are a playoff team though. Unfortunately, I just think the West is too good. I think the West is too talented, and I do like the CP three fit here. And I know that you didn't like Harrison barnes slogan, he is at least a professional basketball player.

00:45:19
Speaker 3: He is.

00:45:19
Speaker 2: He's a veteran grown up basketball player and Vasel hopefully throughout the rest of the year, will be healthier. He's a good basketball player. They got him back for a few games, then he's been down again since.

00:45:33
Speaker 3: Like, this isn't a bad roster around Wenby.

00:45:35
Speaker 2: I've been impressed with the level they've defended at. I've liked Castle in his rookie season. But it's just the competition you're comparing them to, right it's the team's right around them. Minnesota is right behind them right now, Sacramento is behind them. Those are still more talented basketball teams who I expect to turn it around. It's really really tough to be a top ten team in the West. That's not a Wemby thing. It's just the Spurs roster to me, improved from last year, but isn't in a position where they're gonna go out there and win forty eight games like you might have to to make the playoffs in this West.

00:46:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's versa in the East. I say they're a shoeing to make sho Yeah, Like, no, doubt. I'm glad you bring up off the dribble point because I'm telling you, man, when Wemby sets like and he just gets his feet balanced and like even, I think it's going in. When he can get up and set up out of that triple threat and you know, give a jab step or whatever and get that little initial space like when he gets even, I think Wenby's a really good shooter. But I agree with you too. I think long term, just you got more counters to guys, they're not just gonna worry about you spotting up. You're and again you're you're not going. More importantly, Wenby isn't gonna lull himself into just becoming like you know, cause you're just gonna settle for that. We've seen that with guys like Aunt, sometimes.

00:46:53
Speaker 4: With guys like the Aaron Fox.

00:46:54
Speaker 1: You know where you're hitting them, and then that becomes basically an entire shot diet, and you're just kind of eliminating other really easy aspects of your offensive game. But I think it's more I think it's more encouraging that he's hitting him it's clipped than anything else.

00:47:09
Speaker 2: I don't disagree. I mean, it's such a ridiculous weapon. I've always viewed the perimeter stuff as the garnish on his game, right the thing that puts him over the top from being already one of the craziest talents that we've seen to the craziest talent certainly at least in the last twenty years, one of the three greatest prospects in basketball history. But it's more than garnish right now. I mean, this is a foundational aspect of his game. When these shots are falling like this, I just also think, you know, the guy shooting eighty percent in the restricted area right like, he is the single most ludicrous lob target, a rim finishing target in basketball. And I want to make sure that the situation that he's in is always maximizing that.

00:47:53
Speaker 3: And I want to.

00:47:53
Speaker 2: Make sure that he does grow more comfortable playing with physicality, and that he does fill out his frame, and that he does be an even more effective, high volume post player, because all of that is in there, and it's already incredible obviously, the level that he's playing at and how much he has started to play better even within this season, the dude is a freak, one of a kind talent. I just want to make sure that he becomes the absolute best version of himself. Getting some holiday shopping done this weekend. Pick up some touchdowns. They're on sale at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. What else would you expect from the number one place to bet touchdowns?

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00:49:59
Speaker 3: Let's talk about.

00:49:59
Speaker 2: The Milwaukee Bucks slogan, because this is a team that has been at the center of a whole lot of panic early in this year, got off to a brutal.

00:50:06
Speaker 3: Brutal start.

00:50:07
Speaker 2: Now they've won five straight. They're sitting at nine to nine in the East. That's good for the five seed. How much are you moved by this win streak that they're on.

00:50:18
Speaker 1: Not much, But I am a little bit. I'm a little bit more encouraged. I'm cautiously optimistic about the Bucks. And they have won five straight. They've got wins over Houston, over Chicago, over Indiana, over Charlotte, and over Miami. Four of those games we're at home in Milwaukee until this most recent one in Miami, and that's where I gotta start. I gotta give them credit. A great job closing out Miami. Dame gives you a thirty seven piece. This is without Giannis and Chris Middleton, who's still not on the floor. Aj Green came up clutching that game. He had some big threes, So I got a tip my captain them for finishing off Miami without Janis. That was a good win. And over their last five games, they're sixth in offensive rating, they're sixth and net rating, and they're eleven the defensive rating. The biggest thing to me, the two biggest things at least have been on the offensive end, and that's one just them shooting the basketball. They're shooting forty four percent over their last five games from behind the arc. That should be the basis of this team. It should be Jannis and Dame two man game and them feeding shooters around them. That should be where this offense generates their looks. And I think they've been spamming more Yiannis and Dame combinations. I think that has been to the benefit of this offense. I also think Giannis and Dame have just been playing better. But guys have been shooting really well. Gary Trent over the stretch fifty seven percent on eight threes or more than eight threes a game. AJ Green six threes a night. He's making forty five percent of them. Brook Lopez is shooting fifty four percent on five threes a game. So that's where I'm I'm I'm excited about. I think the Bucks are figuring out a little bit more offensively that Damon Giannis two man game. Feed them, let them go to work, set up shooters outside, and the shooters are knocking down shots.

00:52:06
Speaker 4: That's where I'm most encouraged. I'm just not really moved.

00:52:10
Speaker 1: By this depth or this defense yet, and that is where I still worry about Milwaukee. This is still an old team. They're still not great defensively. I still think that there's perimeter defenders I like. I like AJ Green as a perimeter defender. I like Andre Jackson Junior as a perimeter defender. But I still think they lack in those areas. And then.

00:52:35
Speaker 5: I just.

00:52:37
Speaker 1: Those holes are too glaring to me to overlook. And then the depth I still don't love. I don't think this is a particularly deep team. And the guy that I've kind of soured on the most is like Bobby Portis. Man, I used to really love Bobby Portis. Do you think he just sucks now? Like, don't dude, he you know, because my old thought about Bobby Portis was, yeah, man, he can, you know, play some backup four and some backup five for you. He's got a nice little post game, and maybe it was just last night that left his sour taste in my mouth, But like, I don't know, dude, he's shooting these dumbass early shot clock over the shoulder, turn around mid range jumpers that are inefficient, bad looks where he's not moving the basketball. He's not really a good defender. I don't know, man, Bobby Ports used to be one of my favorite bench guys in the league, and I just kind of wonder if he just sucks now.

00:53:30
Speaker 2: I mean he's been doing that all year, bro, I mean, he's been super inefficient. He loves going his little turnarounds, getting to a little bagwork out of the post, and he's also been shooting.

00:53:40
Speaker 3: Poorly from three.

00:53:41
Speaker 2: Like, don't get me round, dude, I want to be playing twenty four minutes a night.

00:53:44
Speaker 1: It's a sexy shot when it goes in, but when you're not hitting it.

00:53:47
Speaker 2: For the discuss, I've always been a fiend for the post. But it's interesting, you know, Bobby early in his career seemed like he was just destined to be one of those dudes who puts up fourteen a night in situations where it doesn't matter at all, like he was doing in Chicago and he was doing in Washing and then he found a way to be a valuable contributor to a championship team. But he's been bad this year for sure.

00:54:09
Speaker 1: There was just a stretch, dude in the second quarter where I think Bobby missed like six or seven shots in a row, and I'm like, pass the ball. Bobby puts a lot of shots up.

00:54:18
Speaker 3: He puts a lot of shots up for.

00:54:20
Speaker 1: Sure, volume shooter. But those are my problems at the end of the day, man, I.

00:54:25
Speaker 4: Still love the depth.

00:54:27
Speaker 1: I don't love the defense. And that's what I've been saying about Milwaukee though. Man Is I think you just got to lean in full borne to the offense and try to outgun some teams and outshoot them. And they've been doing that recently. But I want to see some improvement from the defense, and I want to see them get some wins against real playoff contenders. I don't think any of these wins in this stretch have been over real contenders.

00:54:50
Speaker 2: To me, This is a funny Bobby Port his stat he attempts more shots per minut it than Dame. He's only behind Giannis in terms of field goal attempts per thirty six on the team. I think encouraged is the word that I would use, maybe more than truly moved by this Milwaukee win streak. A turnaround was always inevitable, right You could look at this stretch of the schedule and say, Okay, it's going to soften up. They're going to rack up some wins. And there was never a moment where I doubted that Milwaukee would be in the playoffs, right. I think that you just can't. With Philly as deep a hole as they've dug, and with them health is more of a concern. I still can't see them missing the playoffs.

00:55:28
Speaker 3: The East is just too bad.

00:55:29
Speaker 2: So that hasn't been the concern that you know, they were a four to nine team for good. But I also have been legitimately encouraged by some of the stuff we've seen. Beyond just them winning games. They've looked more capable defensively. They're fifteenth the defensive rating on the year now, and I think that they've started to play the right role players, more guys who do bring a little bit more of that two way value. We're seeing more Aj Green, who's just a good basketball player. I mean, he is a lights out shooter forty eight percent from three. He competes defensively, and they're eight points per one hundred posessions better with him on the floor. They've been starting Andre Jackson, which is something we've discussed for the last two years, because he's been the best perimeter defender on their roster. My concern was always just he's too limited offensively. Can you make that work? He's made a big difference defensively, he really has. He's a guy you can throw at primary ball handlers and he can give them much more trouble than anybody else. And he's active as a team defender. Players are shooting thirty eight percent when guarded by Andre Jackson, and their defense is ten points per one hundred posessions better. So they are making these marginal improvements mitigating some of their limitations with the right role players. Is this something that in terms of my real big picture thoughts with Milwaukee really moves me?

00:56:55
Speaker 3: Though not really.

00:56:57
Speaker 2: It makes me feel a little bit better about them, but I still worry about it and Andre Jackson in a playoff series as a starter, because I think the teams are just going to ignore him offensively.

00:57:06
Speaker 3: That's a problem.

00:57:07
Speaker 2: And with him out there, your defense it's definitely been better, but overall you're still an average defense. Right, So they're finding guys who can play both ends more capably, and their offense is picking.

00:57:18
Speaker 3: Up their offense. I've never been as worried about.

00:57:20
Speaker 2: They have issues in terms of direction organization there, but they're too talented to not be like a top ten offense. But the same big picture things, right, they still don't have good role players here.

00:57:31
Speaker 3: They still don't.

00:57:32
Speaker 2: Have athletes around Giannis on the defensive end. And the one thing that I still think we need to see figured out logan is why Damian Lillard plays so much better when Giannis is not out there. I mean, he just looks so much more comfortable as an offensive number one. He really truly does. When he can just run the show and run high, pick and roll all game, he goes crazy. I mean he looks like he's still got it one hundred percent. And this isn't a one off thing. We have fourteen games games of Dame without Yannis since last season he gives you thirty one points per game on sixty five percent true shooting. With Yannis, he's under twenty four a night on fifty eight percent true shooting. So I still don't think that they've really figured out that fit and that they've really figured out how to maximize Dame alongside Yannis. So, like I say, marginal improvement encouraging stuff, is this really really moving the needle where I would take them over at Cleveland, where I would take them over in New York. No, they had the potential to win a playoff series, but that never has been something that we've written off. And Middleton will make them better when he's out there, but he doesn't solve the core issues we're talking about of being slow, of being old, of not being athletic. So I think of that top three in the East is still very much locked, and really the only truly moving thing from Milwaukee would be if they were able to rejoin that group that you would have had them in preseason.

00:58:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the way to do that would be to get better role players and to get guys that can fill out the bottom of this rotation. Like I would love if Milwaukee could get another another point guard, you know, another guy that could you know, take on some responsibility as a playmate, a high level guy, you know, a high impact guy.

00:59:18
Speaker 4: If they had more athletic defensive wings.

00:59:23
Speaker 1: Basically, if the Bucks had you know, three really good basketball player, you know, three more really good basketball players, I think it would make a big difference. And I hate to point the finger on a positive Bucks segment, but again, you look at the draft pick this year, and they could have addressed a rotation spot with that pick. That's the thing I've come to kind.

00:59:43
Speaker 4: Of learn about the NBA.

00:59:46
Speaker 1: The reason that I think that some people struggle to watch it or struggle. It's the fastest moving sport in the world. Nothing changes quicker then basketball. Man, it can change on a dime. One move, one little thing, and everything can fall apart, and one move can make the difference. And I feel like the Bucks. That's why I'm hoping that the trade deadline they make a move to get another rotation guy or they get you know, the season's not lost and they're playing better basketball, they're just not where they need to be. Again, the standard for a team like the Bucks, when we look at expectations right, the Rockets expectations.

01:00:24
Speaker 4: Are not to win a title this year.

01:00:26
Speaker 1: The Rockets expectations are to make the playoffs and maybe win a playoff series. The Bucks expectations and goal since making the Damian Lillard trades, it's winning a title or to win another title because you have Giannisntetukumpo, one of the best players on the planet, and they're just not there yet. So I hope they could maybe make a move and I'd give up Bobby Portis man, I wouldn't care. I don't think Bobby Portis wins you games anymore.

01:00:49
Speaker 3: I'm I think that's a no brainer. The question like wants Bobby.

01:00:52
Speaker 1: Porters, that's a great point. I would look to make a couple moves before the trade, and I don't know what intriguing assets you have to give another team, but.

01:01:01
Speaker 3: You have nothing at this point.

01:01:03
Speaker 1: You have Dame and you have Giannis. I don't know why you're worried about the future, you know what I mean? Maybe Giannis decides to leave and you could make moves that dig yourself a bigger hole that you need to get out of. I'm on the side of fuck the future. We could maybe win right now, I'm going all in on what we got, and so I would mortgage all of my assets to try and get better and to try to get closer to winning a title. I don't know that sets.

01:01:28
Speaker 3: They don't have a first until twenty thirty one.

01:01:30
Speaker 1: I'm giving it up, man, I'm giving it up.

01:01:33
Speaker 2: This is the dilema they've put themselves in. They had to move faster, right. I think they had to move off Brooke faster. I think arguably they had to move off Middleton just for availability, not because of his ability, but because of availability and some of the specific shortcomings of your roster in terms of athleticism and whatnot. Listen, things are looking better right. Everybody's playing better basically. Gary Trent Junior, awesome shooter, has started a knock down shots. He was super cool to start the year. Brook has been quite good in this wind streak, and I do think that they've had less breakdowns defensively. I think that they've just looked more connected, but they just have fundamental personnel limitations that can't be solved as things are currently constructed. You know who's trying to just blow shit up? Logan who should have been doing this for oh I don't know about four years now, the Chicago Bulls once again, we have the delight of Chicago Bulls trade rumors. It never happened with DeMar, but now we're hearing about it with Levine, and we're hearing about it with Vouch. We've been hearing about it with these guys, but we're hearing it again, and this time apparently Karnisovus is taking it seriously. What destinations would you actually like for those guys, Logan, Let's start with Levine. Where would you like to see zach Lavine end up if you were to be traded?

01:02:51
Speaker 1: So I've got three hypothetical trades for Levine, I've got five hypotheticals for Vuca. I want to hear your thoughts. You tell me who says no in each of the scenarios. And to preface this, I actually think you know I wanted Chicago to get off Tomorrow earlier. I wanted Chicago to get off Leavine and Vouch earlier. Right below that core up asap. I wonder if they've played their hand right just because of well, the only reason I say that is just because these guys I feel like have higher value than they did last year. They're playing better because they're playing better ball. Right now, Levine has given you twenty two to five and four on nearly sixty five percent true shooting. He's got the seventh highest true shooting percentage of any twenty point per game scores. I'm just saying, optics wise, sure, maybe a team would be willing to pony up a little bit more to get these guys because they're playing better ball. The first destination the one that I think makes the most sense, and again Levin is a little harder to trade for because he has the forty three million dollar deal that you have to match.

01:03:47
Speaker 4: The first destination that I think.

01:03:48
Speaker 1: Makes sense is the Miami Heat. And my hypothetical is Terry Rosier, Duncan Robinson and two Miami first round picks, the one for this year and the one for twenty twenty. Who do you think, says no ooh.

01:04:05
Speaker 2: I think Miami would prefer to avoid giving up two firsts for Zach Lavine on that contract.

01:04:13
Speaker 3: Well, the only reason how hurd he was last year.

01:04:15
Speaker 2: But I think if maybe you make it a first and two seconds and I think we're in business.

01:04:21
Speaker 4: Is that mutually beneficial?

01:04:22
Speaker 1: Do you think those teams.

01:04:23
Speaker 3: I love the trade for Miami.

01:04:24
Speaker 2: Actually, that has been one of my two main destinations that I've wanted to see Zach Lavine go for the last couple of years because they've needed more dynamic offensive talent in the backcourt. Now Hero has been awesome this year, I still think having a little more offensive punch is what they need to be a more serious playoff team. And if you can get Levine to buy in defensively, that would make Miami definitely a more serious playoff team. And I don't think that there's a lot of value there that you're totally losing sleepover. And if you're Chicago and you get a first, I mean, that's really the main selling point for them. Maybe they would try to squeeze two first out of it. I don't know if Lavine is going to get that on this contract.

01:05:03
Speaker 1: The only reason I go with the two first is one again, you have to make up value, so Chicago wants it.

01:05:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that would be fine.

01:05:10
Speaker 2: If I were Miami, I'd be okay with that because I think, otherwise, what are you doing right? This is the spot that they've been in and since their finals run, which we know was a bit crazy, just stagnant content with talent that isn't going to contend. But they still have Jimmy and Bam and Hero playing better now. So honestly, yeah, I'll say your initial trade even is a win.

01:05:29
Speaker 1: Win, and not only does it help you win playoff games, I think it helps you win regular season games with Jimmy's inconsistencies too. So that's my first spot. The next spot I alluded to this a little bit earlier. I ever down the San Antonio Spurs, and my hypothetical trade here is you accelerate the timeline. If you're San Antonio, you get another winning basketball player right now that compliments Wemby and CP. The hypothetical you give up Devin Vasel, you give up Trey Jones, and you give up you give Chicago's first round pick back to them for this season. I also can consider doing Keldon Johnson and Trey Jones and then a.

01:06:10
Speaker 3: First Well, that's a big difference.

01:06:12
Speaker 1: It is a big difference. I agree.

01:06:14
Speaker 2: Personally, I don't think that Levine is enough of a needle mover for where the Spurs are at right now to move off of Vaselle. Not that I think that Vassell is a future star I just think he's a really good number three, right. I think that he's a nice offensive player, has defensive tools, and like the Spurs, if they do bring in a Zach Levine, there's still not a team that we look at and think, oh, they're gonna win a playoff series in the West, and you give up a first on top of that. To me, he's not enough of a win now asset for a team that is still so far away from contending. And I would like to keep on to Bseell.

01:06:52
Speaker 1: Okay, I think I agree with that too. It is a little much. The last one I've written down is with the Toronto Raptors. Again, the timeline's a little iffy, but I think they need some half court offensive creation. And because of the contract that this guy signed, you would have to wait until after December fifteenth to pull the trigger. But my hypothetical is a manual quickly and Davion Mitchell straight up for Levigne.

01:07:18
Speaker 3: Hmmm.

01:07:20
Speaker 1: And I thought about throwing it a first, but just considering where Toronto is, I think that would just be a hard sale because Toronto is definitely gonna be in the lottery.

01:07:28
Speaker 2: This one, to me is kind of a little bit of a case of why would Toronto do that? Does Toronto really want to get like I don't know if I would say marginally better but in the big picture, marginally better when they suck right now and clearly they believe in IQ they paid IQ. I don't like that one so much, all right, I think Chicago would be happy with it, probably getting IQ. I mean, although their backwards already kind of crowded. It is because you've got obviously Giddy and Kobe.

01:07:57
Speaker 3: And Lonzo and Ioh. So that's not my favorite.

01:08:00
Speaker 1: I've tried other teams, but again, it is really hard to make this money work with Levine because you have to have a guy that is on that kind of contract, and there's just not that many guys that are on that contract that are less valuable than Levine.

01:08:13
Speaker 4: So do you have any yes, potential destinations.

01:08:17
Speaker 3: Let me pitch you my Levine trade. So I mentioned with Miami.

01:08:19
Speaker 2: They're one of the two teams that for these past couple of years and we've had these conversations before, I've been looking for as big time Levine targets, teams that I think he would move the needle for. The most Golden State is the other I would love him to the Warriors the stuff that we've talked about with a second reliable offensive star that they have needed, having that extra offensive punch where it's not just a redux of the twenty twenty three series against the Lakers, right where they are just able to so singularly key in on Steph and challenge everybody else in that offense to beat them. Levine would provide that. I'm optimistic that he could be more engaged defensively and obviously is a hell of an athlete, but just has never bought in on that end. But with what we've seen from their collective buy in right now, I'm a little more optimistic you could get.

01:09:10
Speaker 3: That out of him.

01:09:10
Speaker 2: And I think he's an awesome offensive fit, not just because he brings that punch, but also because of what he can do as a movement shooter, what he can do off ball, such a special shooter. I really like it if he's able to play capable defense for you. Here's the thing. The contracts are weird there right. I don't know how you give up Andrew Wiggins when he's playing like this.

01:09:31
Speaker 3: I wouldn't.

01:09:32
Speaker 2: Wiggins has been phenomenal this year. He has been exactly the sort of two way forward that they have needed that he was for them in twenty twenty two. So here's what I would be willing to offer. I would be willing to compromise your depth to make it happen. Tell me what you think about this trade. There's a lot of pieces involved because it's a lot of mid size contracts. What if you give up Danthony Meltin, Gary Payton, the second Kyle In Jonathan Kaminga being obviously the jewel of this Gui Santos that is just purely to make the contracts work, and a second for Levigne, And if you need to make that second a first, fine, I'd do it. That wouldn't hold me back. If I'm Golden State.

01:10:16
Speaker 1: I mocked up a trade to the Warriors, and the only reason I didn't do it was because the deal breaker was I didn't want to give up Gary Payton and send him out of Golden State.

01:10:25
Speaker 2: Okay, but can I tell you who that would leave you with if you're Golden State?

01:10:29
Speaker 1: Well no, no, I love that. I love that deal because when I went back to it, I was like, well, you either got to give up Wiggins and I don't want to give up Wiggins right now. I would do that trade. I think that makes a lot of sense for Golden State. You just can't give up Wiggins right now.

01:10:42
Speaker 3: No, you can't. But do you think that that would need a first? As a picker? Do you think Kaminga's enough?

01:10:48
Speaker 1: I think Cominga's enough of bait to get a second. I mean, I still think teams and again, Chicago's timeline isn't you know they already punted to get Josh Giddy? All right, well fine, let's pun Let's get King. I think that makes sense.

01:11:02
Speaker 2: And I understand that, like it's kind of a jumbled, convoluted trade because there's so many pieces. But if you're the bulls, are you really gonna get a much better asset than Jonathan Kaminga for zactly?

01:11:11
Speaker 3: Mean?

01:11:11
Speaker 2: Are you getting multiple firsts? And you know, I'm not the biggest Kaminga guy. We've talked about this. I don't think he's going to be a star, but he has that ability that I think is intriguing. I mean, this is a former seventh overall pick in the draft. So that would leave you if you're going State with a rotation of Steph Levine Wiggins Dre TJD, Buddy, Healed, Pods, Moody, Lindy Waters Looney.

01:11:38
Speaker 1: That to me is like an Actually, you don't give a Melton either, right, Well.

01:11:42
Speaker 2: Mountain's done for the year. Do give him up, but just to make the contracts work. But yeah, that's they use their mid level exception on him and he's not gonna be.

01:11:51
Speaker 3: Able to play. But that's a title contender.

01:11:54
Speaker 2: I think logan because like, yes, you're you're losing a little something.

01:11:57
Speaker 1: The team's got offensive juice.

01:11:59
Speaker 2: Man, they've got offensive juice. You're losing a little wing defense and athleticism on the wings. Sure, but I still think that you're maintaining good depth. I mean, play Moody more minutes, play Lindy Waters more minutes. These are dudes who are in that same archetype, who are good, who play quality minutes when they're on the floor, and Pods will play better, I believe as the year goes along. Buddy obviously has been so good for them, but you have now four really high level basketball players. If Wiggins keeps playing like this and introducing a Zach Levine who gives you that extra offensive juice that you need, I would love that for Golden State.

01:12:35
Speaker 3: I would. I think that'd be a real, real needle mover.

01:12:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, those in my That in Miami is probably my favorite. Two destinations for Levine. I think they just make the most sense.

01:12:44
Speaker 3: Agreed, People are always gonna talk Lakers.

01:12:47
Speaker 1: Nah, what fuck did the Lakers need Levine for?

01:12:50
Speaker 3: Yeah? Is it's not my favorite?

01:12:52
Speaker 2: Okay, how about Vouch? You have five Voochs trades? Let's hear them.

01:12:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and the only reason I mean Vooch is a lot more movable right because he's a twenty million dollar contract.

01:13:02
Speaker 4: And again he also I feel like has decent value right now.

01:13:06
Speaker 1: He is the second highest true shooting percentage of any twenty point per game score, so the first one. Although he has been playing good basketball, and I don't love some of these, but Brook Lopez and a Pelicans first round pick to send him to the Bucks.

01:13:21
Speaker 2: No, the last thing the Bucks need to do is get worse defensively.

01:13:26
Speaker 1: Okay. I also mocked up a Warriors trade just because I didn't mock up one for Lavigne, And I said, Melton Anderson and Golden State's first round pick this year. And my thought process there was, you have another lineup combination offensively with Vouch, and then you have a big body that in some potential matchups maybe he works in just because he's bigger.

01:13:51
Speaker 3: That's interesting. That is interesting.

01:13:56
Speaker 2: Because I mean, Melton's done for the year, right, So that's a zero asset for you for the Warriors. I mean, I definitely like the idea of the Dubs getting another big. I don't know that they play him a crazy amount. But here's the thing with Vouch. Because he's only a twenty million dollar contract, it's not like you're eating nearly as much value. And he is playing unbelievable offensive basketball this year. I mean, he's fifty eight percent from the field, forty six percent from the deep. Has been the offensive player that Chicago would have hoped for when they got him. Really, just when he's knocking down his threes consistently, he's a really really good offensive player.

01:14:34
Speaker 3: I don't hate that. I don't hate that.

01:14:36
Speaker 2: I think that addresses a need for the Warriors. If I were to choose between that or the Levine deal, I definitely prefer the Levine deal.

01:14:42
Speaker 3: But that's not bad.

01:14:44
Speaker 4: Definitely, I think so too.

01:14:45
Speaker 1: And again, you just get a little more offensive firepower from a spot where you don't have it, and you get some size. The next one, maybe you think the timeline doesn't work here, so I understand if you turn this one.

01:14:58
Speaker 4: Down, but it's not a big contra.

01:15:01
Speaker 1: I had one mocked up also to san Antonio, just Keldon Johnson, and you send Chicago's first round pick back to them. Again, the timeline doesn't really work there, but it was more like you got some floor spacing with Wemby and Voods.

01:15:14
Speaker 3: If I'm san Antonio, I want that first. I want that first a hell of a lot more than I.

01:15:18
Speaker 2: Want Boots, and I don't want any more Wemby minutes not playing at the five. I just think that is so clearly better at the five than the four.

01:15:24
Speaker 1: Okay, the next one, I got Memphis Brandon Clark, John Conchar and two second round picks. And the reason I did that one was just again lineup versatility. Not that front court is a big need for Memphis, but now you have Edie, Triple J and Vouch, you would have forty eight minutes of eating and Voots. You kind of have a little bit of lineup versatility with those guys, and you just have more offensive firepower, which is what I think Memphis needs, you.

01:15:53
Speaker 2: Know, it's hilarious. I considered almost this exact deal. I had Clark conchar in a future for instead of two seconds, And that's a pretty easy price to live with if you're Memphis. I mean, also, you're so deep, You've been so great at developing players right where you're getting out of Jalen Wells now we're getting out.

01:16:10
Speaker 3: Of Scotty Pippen Junior.

01:16:11
Speaker 2: You just have so many dudes who can play. The reason that even though the price is very easy for Memphis to part with that I don't love it is they already have Edie as like they're slow footed five who they can play alongside Triple J. I don't think they want another slow big in their fast paced, defense oriented sort of system and identity. I think that they want the Triple J and eedy minutes and then they want the Triple J at the five minutes. I don't think that they want to feel like they should be playing an actual center for like forty eight minutes. You know. But I considered that too, because I mean, he would give them more offensive punch, and that's something that Memphis has needed for years. But I don't think that he's the cleanest fit when they addressed it, and maybe a little bit more of a cost effective way with Edie who's not obviously not as good but similar sort of Marchet type and a better RINP protector.

01:17:08
Speaker 4: All right, And then the last trade.

01:17:10
Speaker 1: I don't really think this one makes a ton of sense either, just with like timelines and stuff. But this was the last one that I thought made maybe a little sense considering their injuries and depth at the position. I wrote down the Hornets Grant Williams, the sile mesicch and Dallas's first round pick in twenty seven. I mean, that's the only reason is you get a first round pickback. None of the players matter. Again, I was just trying to come up with spots where I think a team needs because a lot of teams don't really need another five on their roster. But Charlotte, with their injuries in depth, I felt made a little bit of sense.

01:17:47
Speaker 2: I still think that Charlotte's really far away, I don't know, and maybe someday Mark Williams will be healthy again. Personally, I don't like that. I don't really like that too much for either side. I have a couple of pitches though that I'd like to give you. Okay, one of these I considered. I ultimately decided it's not worth it. But I did consider maybe a sneaky little voots to the Nuggets, which would be a package of them giving up I try the other backup centers. Yeah, well, it's sort of a weird trade. Here's what I have ready, Zeke Nausey, Sarich, DeAndre Jordan, and you throw in Jalen Picket, and then maybe you throw in a first.

01:18:23
Speaker 3: I think you have to.

01:18:24
Speaker 1: I love it.

01:18:25
Speaker 3: I love it, zero value.

01:18:26
Speaker 1: If you could, if you could make it happen, I would do that trade if I was Denver.

01:18:31
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, because I definitely think that that makes Denver better. Is it worth it to be dedicating twenty million in cap, even acknowledging that the four other guys who they're dedicating like eighteen million two in the cap and the aggregate between nause you say you pick it, DeAndre Jordan, all those guys are completely unplayable in a playoff setting, So they're kind of wasting that money right now. But is it worth it to give up twenty million and a first? A future first? I think he doesn't have to give.

01:18:59
Speaker 1: Does it fit ten.

01:19:00
Speaker 3: Minutes a games too?

01:19:02
Speaker 1: Or no? Does it have what does it have apron implications?

01:19:06
Speaker 2: Or no?

01:19:07
Speaker 3: Uh no it shouldn't.

01:19:08
Speaker 2: I mean it's there would only be a difference of like a million in the cap. They have to basically have the salary.

01:19:13
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think Denver's so close. I think it would be worth it to just help a competent big to bring off the bench. And obviously that was supposed to be Pomes but.

01:19:21
Speaker 3: Right, so I don't disagree.

01:19:25
Speaker 2: And maybe if this were the alternative versus nothing right, if it were only one or the other, actually, then maybe I could get behind this. Here's my thought though, if they are going to make a move for a backup center, wouldn't you be better off doing it for like a Larry Nance who's eleven million and then is expiring, so then Deron Holmes can take over next long is not still committed to vouch at twenty million a year.

01:19:49
Speaker 4: As long as you don't have to give up that first, yeah.

01:19:51
Speaker 3: You wouldn't. I wouldn't think.

01:19:52
Speaker 2: I think you give up nause and I don't know, you can throw and pick it in a second or two.

01:19:59
Speaker 3: That just feels like.

01:20:00
Speaker 2: A more efficient deal to me to get fifteen minutes of quality backup center play.

01:20:07
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

01:20:08
Speaker 2: I mean, this would be interesting. It would be kind of a crazy role for Vouch to take. And again it's just like, is that worth twenty million and giving up a first?

01:20:16
Speaker 3: Probably not? Is where I landed on it.

01:20:18
Speaker 2: If there's more efficient alternatives to explore, here's the one that I think is a little more interesting. What if logan the Phoenix Suns gave up NRK. They're twenty thirty one first and the twenty twenty six second. I think that that makes Phoenix even worse defensively. You have two slow footed, bad defensive bigs. But at least Nirk is a better rimp protector than Vuchvuch is a really bad rimp protector. NRK is okay there, But I think it's a much bigger offensive upgrade than it is defensive down grade.

01:20:55
Speaker 1: What do you think, damn man, this is not gonna play defense? Do you really do you THINKRK has been Do you think Nurk is I don't think.

01:21:04
Speaker 3: It's been that bad this year offensively versus Vouch. I think huge different.

01:21:08
Speaker 4: Well, no, I think there's a big difference offense.

01:21:11
Speaker 3: The post scoring.

01:21:12
Speaker 1: I just don't think play. I just don't think NRK's played that bad this year.

01:21:16
Speaker 2: I think Nurk might be shooting like forty one percent from the field this year. I'm not gonna lie to you. Forty one percent from the field is what he shooting.

01:21:23
Speaker 1: I mean, he's never been a good offensive player, Like, well, let's not disrespect twenty nineteen.

01:21:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, before the foot injury, I actually think that he was a good offensive player.

01:21:35
Speaker 3: But it's tough.

01:21:36
Speaker 2: I mean, he's trying to do more of the floor spacing stuff and it turns out that he he sucks at shooting threes and it's never been something he's capable of doing. You don't like that, You think that's too compromising defensively for Phoenix Because my thoughts kind of Nerk's not a good defensive big. I think it's a really good offensive big.

01:21:51
Speaker 1: I think it would just be kind of funny.

01:21:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be kind of funny.

01:21:55
Speaker 2: But it's like they're already all win, they're already all in on this window. Maybe try to make yourself a little better. But it's also kind of weird for Chicago because then it's like our gem is a twenty thirty one first, that's the only one that Phoenix can give up everything up until then, they've traded.

01:22:09
Speaker 1: Vuch Is on a value deal though, so maybe it's.

01:22:11
Speaker 3: Not you that's the thing. There's zero cap.

01:22:13
Speaker 2: I mean they're basically on the exact same contract. I think Nork's making nineteen million this year and Vuch's making twenty million.

01:22:19
Speaker 3: And I just think Vouch is.

01:22:20
Speaker 2: A much better basketball player than Nirk I do.

01:22:22
Speaker 3: I understand that everybody hates Vouch.

01:22:25
Speaker 1: I mean he's a really skilled offensive player and he's a really good that player.

01:22:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if I were Phoenix, I would do that. It is not addressing their big need necessarily, but with the improvements they've made on the wings athletically and defensively, and with how great Katie has been and how much better they've looked when he's on the floor this year, and I could just get a better player at center, and his flaw is basically the same as my inferior center's flaw.

01:22:52
Speaker 3: I think I do it. I think I would do that.

01:22:54
Speaker 2: There you have it, folks, Nikolavucevich trades that you need to consider happy things, giving everybody to all those who celebrate. I hope that you have a wonderful time. I hope that you have a blast with your loved ones and hug them and kiss them on the top of their heads. Logan, what are you most excited for about Thanksgiving?

01:23:11
Speaker 1: Grubbing?

01:23:11
Speaker 4: I'm not well, always just seeing my family, but stuff in my face.

01:23:14
Speaker 3: Now, you can be real. You want to grub You want to just bite on a turkey leg, don't you.

01:23:18
Speaker 4: I'm not you know, I like turkey ham.

01:23:21
Speaker 1: Honestly, I'm probably most excited to do some mac and cheese and some potatoes. Man, I love Thanksgiving, dude. Thanksgiving is such an elite holiday.

01:23:27
Speaker 3: Now, talk to me about this mac and cheese. Do you have bread crumbs there?

01:23:31
Speaker 1: Oh? Not?

01:23:32
Speaker 2: My grandma just makes like a castle role, you know, a mac and cheese castrole.

01:23:37
Speaker 1: Well, like I say, I've meant, you know, like in one of the castle role tins.

01:23:41
Speaker 3: But his shirt yeah right, right right, But there's no layer of bread crumbs on top. It's just straight mac and cheese.

01:23:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. It's just like a cheese on cheese on cheese.

01:23:49
Speaker 3: Right. I've always preferred a mash of bread crumbs. I'm not gonna lie to you.

01:23:54
Speaker 1: What's your favorite thanks something to.

01:23:56
Speaker 3: Break up the straight cheese.

01:23:57
Speaker 2: If I get a mac and cheese with bread crumbs, that would be my number one. You know, I enjoyed mashed potatoes. Sometimes we'll get a snazzy dessert from a from an ant. I have an aunt who's a good baker. She'll bring in some some you don't see comming. Maybe I like pumpkin pie with a little whipped cream.

01:24:12
Speaker 3: Classic.

01:24:13
Speaker 2: My uncle does a nice smoke turkey. I don't know if he's on turkey duties this year, but if he is, i'd be excited for that.

01:24:19
Speaker 3: And you know, I really like stuffing. And you know I love just a good old fashioned bread if it's really done right.

01:24:26
Speaker 1: These are phenomenal takes. I love them. Pecan pie would probably be my number one overall pick.

01:24:31
Speaker 3: But are you a big pie guy overall?

01:24:34
Speaker 1: Oh?

01:24:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah right, settle.

01:24:36
Speaker 2: Down, buddy, I'm not as huge a pie guy.

01:24:41
Speaker 3: I'm a little bit off put by cooked fruit.

01:24:44
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I've never heard that before.

01:24:47
Speaker 2: It's not my favorite texture. And you know I love fruit. I don't love fruit.

01:24:52
Speaker 3: Dessert so much.

01:24:53
Speaker 2: In general, I like a I like a good old fashioned chocolate dessert.

01:24:56
Speaker 3: But when you get.

01:24:57
Speaker 2: Pumpkin pie, you don't have the cooked fruit tech.

01:25:00
Speaker 3: You know, it's just a filling.

01:25:01
Speaker 2: It's just a much nicer texture.

01:25:04
Speaker 3: To me. I love the crust of a pie. Oh I love a pie crust.

01:25:07
Speaker 1: But I'm not saying you cooked fruit, dude. My number one food all time. This is gonna sound really dumb, all time all time.

01:25:14
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving are just world period.

01:25:16
Speaker 1: My high school used to have these hot collar greens they would make every day.

01:25:20
Speaker 3: Huh.

01:25:20
Speaker 1: And my school, the school lunch is sucked, like school lunch is always sucked, but the lunch ladies would make these hot collar greens man, and I swear I'd be excited for lunch.

01:25:31
Speaker 3: My number one food all time is a ribbi steak.

01:25:34
Speaker 1: Want some hot collar greens man?

01:25:36
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, dude, hell yeah, I would love it if we could do a ribi at Thanksgiving.

01:25:41
Speaker 1: You know, just let's let's change the culture. Man.

01:25:44
Speaker 3: Let's see, my dad has been pushing this for years. He's Canadian.

01:25:47
Speaker 1: Of course he might be.

01:25:48
Speaker 4: He might be onto something, man, he might be onto something.

01:25:50
Speaker 2: I kind of think so, because how many people do you hear logan and you just said it, And actually, at this point the take that. I'm about to say, I think has already been beaten to death and overdone. But I'm gonna say it nonetheless. You say, yeah, I don't love turkey. It's the centerpiece of the meal and it doesn't really excite anybody. It is a low tier meat. It is a low tier meat dish.

01:26:10
Speaker 3: Turkey.

01:26:11
Speaker 1: I mean, we always have it accompanied with some ham, either some you know, some some country ham, or just.

01:26:16
Speaker 2: Some One time my great aunt made some ham. She left it out for multiple days. Nobody touched it, you know. But that's the sort of wacky encounters you have a family get together. But now that I think about it, you do need some sort of central animal that the group can collectively dismember. Right, That's what brings us together. And I understand there's a historic significance of the turkey, right, isn't there?

01:26:37
Speaker 3: Although really all.

01:26:38
Speaker 2: The stories are made up about Thanksgiving, I think. But you can't really just do like burgers, you know, or steaks. It's too individualistic. We need something collective. But what if we just brought in a cow and we each took a part of the cow. You know, I'll take the chuck, you'll take a surloin.

01:27:00
Speaker 1: I would bring testicles.

01:27:02
Speaker 2: You'll take the testicles, of course, and you'll eat them raw. And you won't even eat them, you'll just fondle them. Anyways, have some ideas for the holiday season, just throwing shit out there. Hope everybody has a great Thanksgiving. It's a great holiday logan, it's your number one holiday correct.

01:27:17
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love it. Well. I always just associate man old school stealers Ravens man. You know, sit down, watch the Ravens somehow steal a win from the Steelers. But criminal.

01:27:28
Speaker 4: I love Thanksgiving man.

01:27:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully the football games are good. We'll be back on Friday, folks. We'll be talking about who knows what. It'll depend on how the next forty eight hours of life goes.

01:27:37
Speaker 3: But appreciate you guys.

01:27:40
Speaker 2: Love you guys, and if you love us and you want more of our stuff, it's everywhere YouTube. You got all of our full shows, NBA, NFL, and all of our video breakdowns there as well our video essays where we go more in depth on a single topic. You can listen to all of our shows across audio platforms. You can follow us across social media TikTok and sta at nerd Sash, Twitter at nerd Underscore Sash, and you can join our discord if you want. The link to that is at the link tree across our social media bios. You can also check out our merch at our link tree that is at breakingtea dot com. We've got some shirts up there, and I hope that we have some hats. I'm not one hundred percent sure if they're up by now, but if they are, then they are and you can get them at breaking tea dot com. So with that, as always appreciate you guys. I've been Carson Braber

01:28:26
Speaker 1: I've been Logancanden and this was nerd Sash