Gene Feldman: All right, everybody, welcome to our latest episode of Neon Protocol coming to you live from Augmented Enterprise Summit 2026, occurring in Atlanta, Georgia. So we have myself, Gene. We also have Ron, Mike, Dan, and Lucky. And we're really excited. The conference has been going on for two days now. So we really are excited to get a chance to hear from Lucky Dan and Mike and some and hopefully some other surprise guests on how the show's going. So guys, let's just get straight to it. How's the show going? What are guys hearing, seeing? What what's how what's the vibe?
Mike Vann: So we're in Atlanta this year. Last year we were all in Dallas together
Ash Gobindram: Yeah.
Mike Vann: for this event. So we're in Atlanta this year. I think first of all, whenever AES moves to an a new city or a city they haven't
Ash Gobindram: I think personally.
Mike Vann: been to in a while, you get a nice influx of industry from the local area. Atlanta has kind of been cranking for the last twenty years, right, in terms of attracting enterprise and corporate headquarters, those
Ash Gobindram: I see the flux district, three, Atlanta, Fascata, tracking, and cars and
Mike Vann: types of things. So I think we can all agree like it's a strong crowd. It's there are good representation from real, you know, enterprise scale companies here, just as much or more than last year. so they're here. you know, lucky and I have to like tackle in the in the hallways to be able to talk to but we're getting there.
Gene Feldman: Very nice.
Mike Vann: They're excited to spend money.
Lucky Gobindram: And they're excited to spend money it seems, guys. They they they they seem enthusiastic about the upcoming year and investing in space it feels really invigorated compared to last year in Dallas in my opinion.
Ron: So so Lucky,
Gene Feldman: Nice.
Ron: what are the hot areas of interest?
Lucky Gobindram: I mean people are obviously interested in glasses, right? Even though you can't do everything they dream of and then that's a big conversation point. Everybody's talking about glasses and what it might be. hardware's always a conversation, like what's the latest and greatest I think is a very common conversation. In fact, people are people are just genuinely excited about what the possibilities are of where the technology's going.
Mike Vann: I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in on top of that. So I mean glasses are such a big topic that even Dan is wearing a pair right now. So like can we so there's something happening. no we I mean we so we'll talk a little bit more about it is a little quiet on like the big announcement front, but what every you can almost feel it, there's this anticipation for hardware that is coming, right? Like and and for me and this is Partially we're s we're involved in some of the early parts of this, but I've talked to ten people already that have asked about AI enabled safety glasses, right? Like AR safety glasses, not XR, but AR AI enabled safety glasses. There's no less than three viable pieces of hardware coming from an NVIDIA partnership, a Qualcomm partnership, and some others. so ever all the a lot of these companies are like When that's a real thing, when we have a light pair of affordable glasses that can do, you know, over the shoulder vi live video and AI intelligence, for the frontline workforce, they all want it. So there's a lot of buzz around that. And then there's obviously new lighter XR, you know, headsets that are ki are kinda hitting right now. So the other guys can probably talk more a little bit more about, you know, Android XR and Samsung and some and, you know, I mean meta our favorite, you know. company is not really here, but they are. But they're not.
Gene Feldman: Very nice. So is there one particular tool one particular, I guess, headset or hardware that 'cause I know in the past years, you there the quest two was really popular or, you know, the Apple Vision Pro, there was always kind of one that kind of stood out. Is there one that that is coming that people are that seems to be that everybody's kind of gearing for that particular vehicle?
Dan: I'm I'm not getting that sensation
Lucky Gobindram: I'm I'm not getting it.
Dan: at all. It it it seems like in fact, if anything, it's the complete opposite that there's a signal for at you know, as he was saying, you know, these safety rated XR devices and it seems like there's no offerings. Well, there there's some, but they're like very niche, but there's not that generalist kind of XR device that would be used for multiple Use cases. Now there were a few hardware manufacturers here, but they had very bespoke purposes behind them. you know, and they're and they're well made for what they're intended. But this general use, safety rated, where OSHA's not going to get any of your chili type device, it seems like a lot of people want that, but that wasn't a topic of discussion. And I found that that very lacking.
Gene Feldman: Yeah, especially since L Lenovo had that had that solution going for the past couple of years and just this year decided to pull the plug on it. So it seems kind of weird that it's coming back up right as one of the one of the premier offerings closed shop, if that makes sense.
Lucky Gobindram: Pico would love to be that person. They're here full tilt. but I don't know if they've had the response they they're hidden in the back closet pretty usually. Secrets secrets are no fun, right? the devices you can't see in
Gene Feldman: So w what do you think is causing people to kinda be standoff as a pico?
Dan: Well I'm the defense guy on this call and I got obvious reasons. But you know, I mean great hardware, but I I just can't use because of of where they're sourced. And that's a showstopper. Welcome to Life in America.
Gene Feldman: Sorry. And we also have Ash on. He's been trying to chime in, but we're having trouble picking up his mic. So so up so apologies. We are coming
Dan: I'm sorry, Ash. good.
Ash Gobindram: Okay,
Gene Feldman: live. So keep in mind that w we are we are pushing technology to its ultimate limit at this moment for all of our listeners.
Ash Gobindram: Doing pretty well.
Gene Feldman: So what about well let's talk about besides the safety, is there any interesting AI solutions that maybe we should
Ash Gobindram: See for now because I think we're saying also.
Gene Feldman: start being aware of that of people there presenting more practical use cases? You know, I know Lucky Nash, I know you guys are presenting, you know, the solutions that you've had, but are there any other solutions that are kind of rising to the top, kind of like what Ramble or AI did last year?
Ash Gobindram: I mean, I think you see a lot of AI across the offerings and you know the products that are kind of exhibiting here. I mean, you see everything from AI assisted standardization of processes for you know spatial education and training tools to the kinds of things that we're doing. there seems to be you know, a couple of other guys out here that while their solutions don't look as nice as Kinemeric's, but they're definitely, you know, doing some stuff in the same kind of playing field. So
Gene Feldman: Very nice. You know, and I go ahead.
Ash Gobindram: Yeah. No, I mean I I was just agreeing with Eugene. I think, you know, AI, aside from the, you know, the the holy grail, you know, glasses that everybody's looking for, I think AI is definitely a major invigorating factor at this year's show.
Dan: Well, I had I had something
Gene Feldman: Nice.
Dan: that's kind of under the hood. So there's a visual positioning system that I'm interested in integrating. And and I
Ash Gobindram: Things the stuff is interested in integrating and
Dan: said, Hey, I'm a bit of a generalist. I'm not that much of a computer scientist
Ash Gobindram: stuff that that much.
Dan: and your your documentation's a bit dense. And then he came back saying, not to worry, we just redid our documentation, so it's cloud friendly. So when you want to integrate it, you can just agentically talk to your code and get it to work with your solution. So it's not like AI was forward, it's more like It's under the hood and part of the development process. So I I had kind of mixed feelings about it because it's like, great, you know, I'm gonna be able to use this VPS like right off the bat. But also it's like, well, I'd also like to understand how the bloody thing works, you know, before I put make it a part of my architecture. So it's a bit of a dilemma. Like, yay, but also, hmm, that's different. So that's my observation of AI here.
Mike Vann: Yeah, another thing that we're seeing a lot of I mean this partially this is Nianic Spatial is a big sponsor here and so they're making quite a bit of noise, but there's other companies around this area, but there's a lot going on in spatial and specifically, you know, this generation of world models and Gaussian splatting, the idea of capturing environments, whether that's you know, city scale or industrial facility scale with this quickly accelerating capture technology and tr and converting that stuff into usable 3D models, which is this is just advancing to the point where, you know, it's becoming much more reasonable to create a digital twin that is usable, which is good news.
Gene Feldman: No, absolutely, because you I yeah, because I, you know, I've been always a big supporter of functional twins, not digital twins, you know, having something that you can create. Now, going on this AI theme, I'm wondering if it's being talked about what's been going on with Claude and some of the other AI engines that have been jailbreaking this week. So you had the PS PlayStation, you know, that got jo jailbreaked with AI and all the games that they never said would back are would be backwards compatible. They're playing them all on the system. Or what it recently just happened with Adobe. Where they had an AI system recreate all of Adobe's software and release it for free. is there any concern or conversations going on about how to protect your IP?
Dan: no, it's the other way around. It's all about drawing up the moat because, you know, hey, in shittification, it's ruin it for everybody. And now these companies that that have kind of stalled growth because of their moats, they don't have an excuse anymore. And w with the discussions I had with other other developers, it's like, well, it's not n about, you know, the software that you send that you send out into the world. It's more about your expertise that you put into your solution that you're offering. That that The agents just aren't going to figure out on their own because you have all these years of experience to tailor it. So the the software becomes invisible and it's more about what what you offer creatively to the industry. so honestly a lot of people are are like looking up to it, like, hey, this is actually solves a lot of problems that we're having, as opposed to just worrying about IV. But yeah, that's the take that I'm having with conversations that I've had with people.
Gene Feldman: Nice. Now w with that, because I always worry about the startups, but let's get to the startups because I know this is Ron's one of Ron's favorite topics because every time we're typically there, we spend a lot of time in the startup aisle. Are there any startups or younger companies that you're seeing that could that could be a great that have a just either a great potential for a use case or a solution that could really kind of help mold the future? You know, I know in years past we had Space Top and we had Zapper and a couple others. So I'm just curious if if you guys have seen anything in the startup field.
Mike Vann: So I'll I'll make a quick comment. It's clear to me there are less small small startup companies here than there were last year. Like I'm talking less than half of what we had last year in terms of the the smaller startup single or two people, you know, bringing their bringing their stuff. I'm not sure why that is. maybe there just wasn't as much attention paid to that, in terms of bringing them in. Unfortunately, Ron, as you know, like that's the kind of lifeblood of Of kind of keeping the funnel going and getting people in and allowing the bigger companies to see the the smaller companies with really good ideas that they're executing quickly on. So that was noticeable. Because I'm like, I'm one of those guys. I'm in the five by five over on the the wall and there's there's there's space over there. so that said, there are a couple of interesting things. Some of them are a little bigger and funded, some of them are giant, but one that I spent a little time with today was called Spexi, S-P-E-X-I. they do have a partnership with Niantic. They're drone they're doing a drone drone capture video that they're converting to digital twin assets. So like the Niana guys are doing the ground level stuff. These guys are doing drone level and those things those are getting meshed so that not only do you have, you know, your ground level world model, but now you're you've got it from, you know, five hundred feet and down up in into into into the air, which is a nice way to kind of give you the full picture. So Spexy was interesting. Take a look at that.
Gene Feldman: So besides the floor, any good presentations? Have you guys been a chance? I know you guys are all work working your own boost, but you got a chance to hear anybody's stories or any of the stories that are calling you out?
Mike Vann: So these guys are giant and but they're here, which is interesting and good, I think, and it's UPS. they they're here. the nice thing about some of the really big companies are here, they're really truly they're sending people to learn and to talk to the industry. it isn't so much that they're trying to force their thing. They're these guys are here trying to understand what's going on, what's coming, which is nice and refreshing. They're sending the right kind of people, they're sending researchers and engineers. but UPS specifically was really focused on their whole smart facility, smart package, RFID technology. And they know very soon, in addition to all this all the hardware and software they're running inside their logistics facilities, they know very quickly classes wearables are gonna be enabled on people and then ultimately you know there's gonna be robotics in humanoids and other types of robots and drones in those in those locations that can all contribute to this kind of data capture and data collection and tracking of everything. so they're also trying to understand, okay, what kind of headsets are out there that we can put on people now or glasses that are coming in the next six months, with that we can start testing. And from the enterprise side of things, just being in a couple of conversations, companies are talking about this. They they want to be in the mix when these You know, NVIDIA Vitcher glasses hit or when the Samsung something sense sense AI. I I'll have to get the name on that. There's a couple of partnerships coming for these safety glasses, that are just it's gonna be an interesting watch.
Gene Feldman: Nice. Yeah, it seems like we're firing what
Dan: Yeah, I I agree with you on that, Mike. They there there there was a lot of people that were just looking for information. So there there's a hunger for stuff that is new, at least with the people that that walk by where where my stand is, where all these companies are are just trying to get updated on on what the heck is happening with this industry, which kind of makes me scratch my head. It's like, well, you know, if is there just not enough good information on what's being developed, you know, that's out there. Yeah. I I have no idea.
Gene Feldman: Yeah, and it it Yeah, please.
Ron: Yeah, I got a question. okay, so the I think the industry is going through a bit of a transformation. because the hardware hasn't evolved as fast and is as easy to use as people would like, and the price points are still a bit of a challenge and the ROI is certainly a challenge for enterprises. And I think that somehow these use cases with XR and AIXR somehow just aren't getting up to the senior people in enterprises. I don't know why that is, but they they they are aware of it, but there's nothing really compelling or to make this strategic to get more attention or bigger budget or to scale these pilots.
Dan: You you you you hit it right there, Ron. It it's like when I when I talk to these people and again remember I'm from the defense industry. I'm on a dog in this fight, so I'm completely learning. And they explain to me the problem that they're trying to solve. And I'm like, that's a big problem, dude, and I think XR could fix it. And then then they're like, Yeah, but we're not spending the money on it because we haven't found exactly what right what's right. You know, and I'm here to find it, whatever that that what right is. and that was a story that I kept on seeing over and over again. So Ron, yeah, you you begged it. Yeah. They gotta find what's right so they can talk to their their
Ron: Yeah. 'Cause one of the things with the
Dan: C suite and convince them to
Ron: Right. Yeah, 'cause one of the elements of trying to get attention is anticipating what the need is or what the opportunity is or the solution needs to be. And people kind of operate in the basis, I don't really know what I want, but I'll know it when I see it. And one of the things with XR is it's a very visual kind of thing. So if you can kind of show them the solution and it's very visual, it creates an aha moment. or a big question mark. And I think there've been way more question marks than aha moments. And so we're hoping that somehow by bringing AI into the picture, you're adding more intelligence to the process and to the solution to get past that.
Dan: It has Ron and and you do you do have a point about the AR I mean the AI stuff. However, a lot of the guys that I talked to has said some of their equipment is aging out. So they're figuring out what to do next because, you know, they have these old headsets that barely function anymore, you know, that have been used completely, or the company that they got them from kept on switching hands with how they're gonna get supported and their unsupported devices. So that's a that's something that they're contending with and You know, obviously with everything that's going on with AI, it seems like all their old stuff looks really old now, with all these problems that you talked about that are keeping from adoption in the first place. So yeah, you nailed it.
Ron: Yeah. So
Ash Gobindram: Yeah. And I mean, Ron, just to add to that, I mean, from, you know, our perspective at our booth, you know, we've heard quite a few people say, you know, we're just out here trying to see what's out there. You know, this would be they sense that this intersection of AI and XR has something valuable, but they're not sure exactly what it is. So they're they're combing around to try to see what actually, you know, lights up that light bulb for them. So, you know, there's definitely interest.
Ron: So it you know what this is about? It's about thinking like Steve Jobs. And you know what his mantra was? You know, what's market research when we should be able to figure out what people will want? And he did a really good job on that. And and so it turns out that that ability is extremely valuable. So who's got the vision here and who can you know. show something tangible that will meaningfully improve outcomes of enterprises. That's what the
Ash Gobindram: Yeah, how do you how do you massage the right ingredients together, you know, to to make it very clear
Ron: Yeah, yeah.
Ash Gobindram: for other people?
Ron: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think that's why like Apple, you know, should be in this space for sure, and some other people, and they want to, but I think they're struggling with the mix of the technologies, the the how to make it easy to use, quick gratification, you know, create these aha moments. And and that's sort of a thing where if Apple is challenged with that, then everybody is. And with Lenovo pulling back and Pico and the other ones pulling back, they're obviously aware of it as well. So it's kind of a regrouping and a transformation phase, I think, going on because of these things.
Ash Gobindram: something that has access to X5 plus T. Sure. And hopefully the, you know, the Vision Pro, if you know some of the mixed results has given them enough data to make, you know, better successive decisions on whatever their next, you know, incarnation is of their device.
Ron: Yeah. Well I've always maintained is I don't think that this space, XR in general, is going to get very far until when people wear hardware, they look like lucky these glasses. And there's built-in intelligence and you just can talk to it and explore easy and get good answers back and then go into some, you know, domain where you really learn fast and it's interesting and rewarding. So it's just that whole environment has to be like that for it to be, you know, a a big play, a big opportunity. That's how we
Ash Gobindram: Agree with you.
Ron: Yeah, yeah.
Gene Feldman: No, very nice. Now, with the some of these companies that are looking to learn, do you what do you think? Because I know, you know, over the past couple months, you know, IT and tech and a lot of these companies have had a lot of big layoffs. Even Netflix had one today, you know, of a thousand people that was, you know, from tech to product all the way to HR. But so I guess my question is, are you seeing people that are are tenured in the space or more of people that have kind of come in to fill these open vacancies that that the companies have created. Cause 'cause my concern was when these layoffs start happening, is it going to push companies back to where they they feel like they're starting over again that may have had some great success early on in the movement per se.
Mike Vann: I mean, Gene, you know this story all too well, right? The problem is when you remove institutional knowledge and the person who's championing the technology, and this is probably happening in a lot of places, it it's really difficult for those companies, even though they're y even though these are massive companies, it's really difficult for them to regain that position. And I mean the problem is is that there is exciting and good new hardware coming and the software side of this is accelerated because of AI. the developers can move extremely fast helping these companies build real applied applications for these for these headsets and and classes. Like on on our side we can do so much more with with less resources and and and and more rapid development, but the the enterprise companies have to be in a position where they have the people to to put these programs in place and and champion getting the pilots through and if they remove the people that have that capability, it's not gonna happen. You know? So that's a problem for sure. I haven't had any of those discussions today, but I would imagine there's people walking around thinking like, you know, if if if they take out part of our group or all of our group, like this is never gonna happen, right?
Gene Feldman: Yeah. Yeah, because I because I just wonder how gun shy maybe some people are now from all that. So all right. And so any other I I want to keep this really short for you guys because th there's a lot of commotion as well as you know that these conferences for those that are listening, these conferences are one of the best things about them that make them great is the networking. getting a chance to talk to a lot of different companies. Honestly, that's how that this podcast even started. We've all been friends by meeting at the conferences for the past couple of years and have just enjoyed each other's feedback and and conversation. So I don't want you guys to miss that opportunity because I know right now is about happy hour time on free drinks. So I don't want you guys to miss it. so I'm gonna give you guys the final protocol. what what's something that you would like to leave with the listeners as a takeaway from the conference so far?
Mike Vann: Yeah, I'll go first. So I I just feel like there's palpable momentum right now. And Lucky and I were talking a little bit earlier. That hasn't resulted in contracts and actual projects being greenlit, but the n the number of real discussions around real opportunities to to leverage some of what's coming out on the hardware side and on the on the you know, Android XR or NVIDIA XR AI. there there's real increased activity there from the enterprise side. Doesn't you know, we're we've all been in this long enough not to bank on that, but it is very different from a year ago. So that's good and we're hoping we can convert those things.
Gene Feldman: Nice.
Lucky Gobindram: I I echo what Mike said real quick. What I can tell from the conversations, people continue to say they have budget. They have problems they wanna solve. There's budget. And they don't have time but they have money. Right? So how how do they actually materialize that is to be seen. I mean the contracts aren't signed yet, think it's not on the paper, but you know, the word on the street is like we have money, we wanna invest in this and this is the time that we're gonna do it. So I hope that that materializes, but I think the energy is there
Ash Gobindram: Yeah, I'd add to that and I'd say it's the the right kinds of organizations, you know, through like American institutions, blue chip companies that, you know, have had some success and are thinking about, you know, how do they push it to the next level with some of the solutions that are coming to the surface now. so I think if they're able to systemize it and produce results with it, then that only speaks to, you know, the domino effect that could occur with, you know, other mid sized, you know, less smaller organizations within the country. So
Gene Feldman: No, very nice. Glad to hear. Especially glad to hear that there's excitement building again. Cause last year I remember kind of leaving that there was almost a feeling of doom in air because we didn't know what AI was gonna do. But it's nice to kind of see that it it's the excitement's coming back. So it kinda gives some some great hope for the future. Yeah. So all right guys, so we are at thirty minutes, so or a little bit less, but I'm gonna go ahead and let you guys go. Thank you all for joining the latest episode of Neon Protocol. Again, you can catch us on all the main on all the main listening services as well as on LinkedIn. So get go ahead and take a listen and follow along. And please share along. So with everybody, thank you so much for joining, guys, and have a blast at the rest of the conference. And next week we're going to be recording our next episode. So we'll do a little, again, a rehash afterwards and kind of see what everybody's vibe was coming out of it. So thank you guys so much and have safe travels back.
Mike Vann: So we're in Atlanta this year. Last year we were all in Dallas together
Ash Gobindram: Yeah.
Mike Vann: for this event. So we're in Atlanta this year. I think first of all, whenever AES moves to an a new city or a city they haven't
Ash Gobindram: I think personally.
Mike Vann: been to in a while, you get a nice influx of industry from the local area. Atlanta has kind of been cranking for the last twenty years, right, in terms of attracting enterprise and corporate headquarters, those
Ash Gobindram: I see the flux district, three, Atlanta, Fascata, tracking, and cars and
Mike Vann: types of things. So I think we can all agree like it's a strong crowd. It's there are good representation from real, you know, enterprise scale companies here, just as much or more than last year. so they're here. you know, lucky and I have to like tackle in the in the hallways to be able to talk to but we're getting there.
Gene Feldman: Very nice.
Mike Vann: They're excited to spend money.
Lucky Gobindram: And they're excited to spend money it seems, guys. They they they they seem enthusiastic about the upcoming year and investing in space it feels really invigorated compared to last year in Dallas in my opinion.
Ron: So so Lucky,
Gene Feldman: Nice.
Ron: what are the hot areas of interest?
Lucky Gobindram: I mean people are obviously interested in glasses, right? Even though you can't do everything they dream of and then that's a big conversation point. Everybody's talking about glasses and what it might be. hardware's always a conversation, like what's the latest and greatest I think is a very common conversation. In fact, people are people are just genuinely excited about what the possibilities are of where the technology's going.
Mike Vann: I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in on top of that. So I mean glasses are such a big topic that even Dan is wearing a pair right now. So like can we so there's something happening. no we I mean we so we'll talk a little bit more about it is a little quiet on like the big announcement front, but what every you can almost feel it, there's this anticipation for hardware that is coming, right? Like and and for me and this is Partially we're s we're involved in some of the early parts of this, but I've talked to ten people already that have asked about AI enabled safety glasses, right? Like AR safety glasses, not XR, but AR AI enabled safety glasses. There's no less than three viable pieces of hardware coming from an NVIDIA partnership, a Qualcomm partnership, and some others. so ever all the a lot of these companies are like When that's a real thing, when we have a light pair of affordable glasses that can do, you know, over the shoulder vi live video and AI intelligence, for the frontline workforce, they all want it. So there's a lot of buzz around that. And then there's obviously new lighter XR, you know, headsets that are ki are kinda hitting right now. So the other guys can probably talk more a little bit more about, you know, Android XR and Samsung and some and, you know, I mean meta our favorite, you know. company is not really here, but they are. But they're not.
Gene Feldman: Very nice. So is there one particular tool one particular, I guess, headset or hardware that 'cause I know in the past years, you there the quest two was really popular or, you know, the Apple Vision Pro, there was always kind of one that kind of stood out. Is there one that that is coming that people are that seems to be that everybody's kind of gearing for that particular vehicle?
Dan: I'm I'm not getting that sensation
Lucky Gobindram: I'm I'm not getting it.
Dan: at all. It it it seems like in fact, if anything, it's the complete opposite that there's a signal for at you know, as he was saying, you know, these safety rated XR devices and it seems like there's no offerings. Well, there there's some, but they're like very niche, but there's not that generalist kind of XR device that would be used for multiple Use cases. Now there were a few hardware manufacturers here, but they had very bespoke purposes behind them. you know, and they're and they're well made for what they're intended. But this general use, safety rated, where OSHA's not going to get any of your chili type device, it seems like a lot of people want that, but that wasn't a topic of discussion. And I found that that very lacking.
Gene Feldman: Yeah, especially since L Lenovo had that had that solution going for the past couple of years and just this year decided to pull the plug on it. So it seems kind of weird that it's coming back up right as one of the one of the premier offerings closed shop, if that makes sense.
Lucky Gobindram: Pico would love to be that person. They're here full tilt. but I don't know if they've had the response they they're hidden in the back closet pretty usually. Secrets secrets are no fun, right? the devices you can't see in
Gene Feldman: So w what do you think is causing people to kinda be standoff as a pico?
Dan: Well I'm the defense guy on this call and I got obvious reasons. But you know, I mean great hardware, but I I just can't use because of of where they're sourced. And that's a showstopper. Welcome to Life in America.
Gene Feldman: Sorry. And we also have Ash on. He's been trying to chime in, but we're having trouble picking up his mic. So so up so apologies. We are coming
Dan: I'm sorry, Ash. good.
Ash Gobindram: Okay,
Gene Feldman: live. So keep in mind that w we are we are pushing technology to its ultimate limit at this moment for all of our listeners.
Ash Gobindram: Doing pretty well.
Gene Feldman: So what about well let's talk about besides the safety, is there any interesting AI solutions that maybe we should
Ash Gobindram: See for now because I think we're saying also.
Gene Feldman: start being aware of that of people there presenting more practical use cases? You know, I know Lucky Nash, I know you guys are presenting, you know, the solutions that you've had, but are there any other solutions that are kind of rising to the top, kind of like what Ramble or AI did last year?
Ash Gobindram: I mean, I think you see a lot of AI across the offerings and you know the products that are kind of exhibiting here. I mean, you see everything from AI assisted standardization of processes for you know spatial education and training tools to the kinds of things that we're doing. there seems to be you know, a couple of other guys out here that while their solutions don't look as nice as Kinemeric's, but they're definitely, you know, doing some stuff in the same kind of playing field. So
Gene Feldman: Very nice. You know, and I go ahead.
Ash Gobindram: Yeah. No, I mean I I was just agreeing with Eugene. I think, you know, AI, aside from the, you know, the the holy grail, you know, glasses that everybody's looking for, I think AI is definitely a major invigorating factor at this year's show.
Dan: Well, I had I had something
Gene Feldman: Nice.
Dan: that's kind of under the hood. So there's a visual positioning system that I'm interested in integrating. And and I
Ash Gobindram: Things the stuff is interested in integrating and
Dan: said, Hey, I'm a bit of a generalist. I'm not that much of a computer scientist
Ash Gobindram: stuff that that much.
Dan: and your your documentation's a bit dense. And then he came back saying, not to worry, we just redid our documentation, so it's cloud friendly. So when you want to integrate it, you can just agentically talk to your code and get it to work with your solution. So it's not like AI was forward, it's more like It's under the hood and part of the development process. So I I had kind of mixed feelings about it because it's like, great, you know, I'm gonna be able to use this VPS like right off the bat. But also it's like, well, I'd also like to understand how the bloody thing works, you know, before I put make it a part of my architecture. So it's a bit of a dilemma. Like, yay, but also, hmm, that's different. So that's my observation of AI here.
Mike Vann: Yeah, another thing that we're seeing a lot of I mean this partially this is Nianic Spatial is a big sponsor here and so they're making quite a bit of noise, but there's other companies around this area, but there's a lot going on in spatial and specifically, you know, this generation of world models and Gaussian splatting, the idea of capturing environments, whether that's you know, city scale or industrial facility scale with this quickly accelerating capture technology and tr and converting that stuff into usable 3D models, which is this is just advancing to the point where, you know, it's becoming much more reasonable to create a digital twin that is usable, which is good news.
Gene Feldman: No, absolutely, because you I yeah, because I, you know, I've been always a big supporter of functional twins, not digital twins, you know, having something that you can create. Now, going on this AI theme, I'm wondering if it's being talked about what's been going on with Claude and some of the other AI engines that have been jailbreaking this week. So you had the PS PlayStation, you know, that got jo jailbreaked with AI and all the games that they never said would back are would be backwards compatible. They're playing them all on the system. Or what it recently just happened with Adobe. Where they had an AI system recreate all of Adobe's software and release it for free. is there any concern or conversations going on about how to protect your IP?
Dan: no, it's the other way around. It's all about drawing up the moat because, you know, hey, in shittification, it's ruin it for everybody. And now these companies that that have kind of stalled growth because of their moats, they don't have an excuse anymore. And w with the discussions I had with other other developers, it's like, well, it's not n about, you know, the software that you send that you send out into the world. It's more about your expertise that you put into your solution that you're offering. That that The agents just aren't going to figure out on their own because you have all these years of experience to tailor it. So the the software becomes invisible and it's more about what what you offer creatively to the industry. so honestly a lot of people are are like looking up to it, like, hey, this is actually solves a lot of problems that we're having, as opposed to just worrying about IV. But yeah, that's the take that I'm having with conversations that I've had with people.
Gene Feldman: Nice. Now w with that, because I always worry about the startups, but let's get to the startups because I know this is Ron's one of Ron's favorite topics because every time we're typically there, we spend a lot of time in the startup aisle. Are there any startups or younger companies that you're seeing that could that could be a great that have a just either a great potential for a use case or a solution that could really kind of help mold the future? You know, I know in years past we had Space Top and we had Zapper and a couple others. So I'm just curious if if you guys have seen anything in the startup field.
Mike Vann: So I'll I'll make a quick comment. It's clear to me there are less small small startup companies here than there were last year. Like I'm talking less than half of what we had last year in terms of the the smaller startup single or two people, you know, bringing their bringing their stuff. I'm not sure why that is. maybe there just wasn't as much attention paid to that, in terms of bringing them in. Unfortunately, Ron, as you know, like that's the kind of lifeblood of Of kind of keeping the funnel going and getting people in and allowing the bigger companies to see the the smaller companies with really good ideas that they're executing quickly on. So that was noticeable. Because I'm like, I'm one of those guys. I'm in the five by five over on the the wall and there's there's there's space over there. so that said, there are a couple of interesting things. Some of them are a little bigger and funded, some of them are giant, but one that I spent a little time with today was called Spexi, S-P-E-X-I. they do have a partnership with Niantic. They're drone they're doing a drone drone capture video that they're converting to digital twin assets. So like the Niana guys are doing the ground level stuff. These guys are doing drone level and those things those are getting meshed so that not only do you have, you know, your ground level world model, but now you're you've got it from, you know, five hundred feet and down up in into into into the air, which is a nice way to kind of give you the full picture. So Spexy was interesting. Take a look at that.
Gene Feldman: So besides the floor, any good presentations? Have you guys been a chance? I know you guys are all work working your own boost, but you got a chance to hear anybody's stories or any of the stories that are calling you out?
Mike Vann: So these guys are giant and but they're here, which is interesting and good, I think, and it's UPS. they they're here. the nice thing about some of the really big companies are here, they're really truly they're sending people to learn and to talk to the industry. it isn't so much that they're trying to force their thing. They're these guys are here trying to understand what's going on, what's coming, which is nice and refreshing. They're sending the right kind of people, they're sending researchers and engineers. but UPS specifically was really focused on their whole smart facility, smart package, RFID technology. And they know very soon, in addition to all this all the hardware and software they're running inside their logistics facilities, they know very quickly classes wearables are gonna be enabled on people and then ultimately you know there's gonna be robotics in humanoids and other types of robots and drones in those in those locations that can all contribute to this kind of data capture and data collection and tracking of everything. so they're also trying to understand, okay, what kind of headsets are out there that we can put on people now or glasses that are coming in the next six months, with that we can start testing. And from the enterprise side of things, just being in a couple of conversations, companies are talking about this. They they want to be in the mix when these You know, NVIDIA Vitcher glasses hit or when the Samsung something sense sense AI. I I'll have to get the name on that. There's a couple of partnerships coming for these safety glasses, that are just it's gonna be an interesting watch.
Gene Feldman: Nice. Yeah, it seems like we're firing what
Dan: Yeah, I I agree with you on that, Mike. They there there there was a lot of people that were just looking for information. So there there's a hunger for stuff that is new, at least with the people that that walk by where where my stand is, where all these companies are are just trying to get updated on on what the heck is happening with this industry, which kind of makes me scratch my head. It's like, well, you know, if is there just not enough good information on what's being developed, you know, that's out there. Yeah. I I have no idea.
Gene Feldman: Yeah, and it it Yeah, please.
Ron: Yeah, I got a question. okay, so the I think the industry is going through a bit of a transformation. because the hardware hasn't evolved as fast and is as easy to use as people would like, and the price points are still a bit of a challenge and the ROI is certainly a challenge for enterprises. And I think that somehow these use cases with XR and AIXR somehow just aren't getting up to the senior people in enterprises. I don't know why that is, but they they they are aware of it, but there's nothing really compelling or to make this strategic to get more attention or bigger budget or to scale these pilots.
Dan: You you you you hit it right there, Ron. It it's like when I when I talk to these people and again remember I'm from the defense industry. I'm on a dog in this fight, so I'm completely learning. And they explain to me the problem that they're trying to solve. And I'm like, that's a big problem, dude, and I think XR could fix it. And then then they're like, Yeah, but we're not spending the money on it because we haven't found exactly what right what's right. You know, and I'm here to find it, whatever that that what right is. and that was a story that I kept on seeing over and over again. So Ron, yeah, you you begged it. Yeah. They gotta find what's right so they can talk to their their
Ron: Yeah. 'Cause one of the things with the
Dan: C suite and convince them to
Ron: Right. Yeah, 'cause one of the elements of trying to get attention is anticipating what the need is or what the opportunity is or the solution needs to be. And people kind of operate in the basis, I don't really know what I want, but I'll know it when I see it. And one of the things with XR is it's a very visual kind of thing. So if you can kind of show them the solution and it's very visual, it creates an aha moment. or a big question mark. And I think there've been way more question marks than aha moments. And so we're hoping that somehow by bringing AI into the picture, you're adding more intelligence to the process and to the solution to get past that.
Dan: It has Ron and and you do you do have a point about the AR I mean the AI stuff. However, a lot of the guys that I talked to has said some of their equipment is aging out. So they're figuring out what to do next because, you know, they have these old headsets that barely function anymore, you know, that have been used completely, or the company that they got them from kept on switching hands with how they're gonna get supported and their unsupported devices. So that's a that's something that they're contending with and You know, obviously with everything that's going on with AI, it seems like all their old stuff looks really old now, with all these problems that you talked about that are keeping from adoption in the first place. So yeah, you nailed it.
Ron: Yeah. So
Ash Gobindram: Yeah. And I mean, Ron, just to add to that, I mean, from, you know, our perspective at our booth, you know, we've heard quite a few people say, you know, we're just out here trying to see what's out there. You know, this would be they sense that this intersection of AI and XR has something valuable, but they're not sure exactly what it is. So they're they're combing around to try to see what actually, you know, lights up that light bulb for them. So, you know, there's definitely interest.
Ron: So it you know what this is about? It's about thinking like Steve Jobs. And you know what his mantra was? You know, what's market research when we should be able to figure out what people will want? And he did a really good job on that. And and so it turns out that that ability is extremely valuable. So who's got the vision here and who can you know. show something tangible that will meaningfully improve outcomes of enterprises. That's what the
Ash Gobindram: Yeah, how do you how do you massage the right ingredients together, you know, to to make it very clear
Ron: Yeah, yeah.
Ash Gobindram: for other people?
Ron: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think that's why like Apple, you know, should be in this space for sure, and some other people, and they want to, but I think they're struggling with the mix of the technologies, the the how to make it easy to use, quick gratification, you know, create these aha moments. And and that's sort of a thing where if Apple is challenged with that, then everybody is. And with Lenovo pulling back and Pico and the other ones pulling back, they're obviously aware of it as well. So it's kind of a regrouping and a transformation phase, I think, going on because of these things.
Ash Gobindram: something that has access to X5 plus T. Sure. And hopefully the, you know, the Vision Pro, if you know some of the mixed results has given them enough data to make, you know, better successive decisions on whatever their next, you know, incarnation is of their device.
Ron: Yeah. Well I've always maintained is I don't think that this space, XR in general, is going to get very far until when people wear hardware, they look like lucky these glasses. And there's built-in intelligence and you just can talk to it and explore easy and get good answers back and then go into some, you know, domain where you really learn fast and it's interesting and rewarding. So it's just that whole environment has to be like that for it to be, you know, a a big play, a big opportunity. That's how we
Ash Gobindram: Agree with you.
Ron: Yeah, yeah.
Gene Feldman: No, very nice. Now, with the some of these companies that are looking to learn, do you what do you think? Because I know, you know, over the past couple months, you know, IT and tech and a lot of these companies have had a lot of big layoffs. Even Netflix had one today, you know, of a thousand people that was, you know, from tech to product all the way to HR. But so I guess my question is, are you seeing people that are are tenured in the space or more of people that have kind of come in to fill these open vacancies that that the companies have created. Cause 'cause my concern was when these layoffs start happening, is it going to push companies back to where they they feel like they're starting over again that may have had some great success early on in the movement per se.
Mike Vann: I mean, Gene, you know this story all too well, right? The problem is when you remove institutional knowledge and the person who's championing the technology, and this is probably happening in a lot of places, it it's really difficult for those companies, even though they're y even though these are massive companies, it's really difficult for them to regain that position. And I mean the problem is is that there is exciting and good new hardware coming and the software side of this is accelerated because of AI. the developers can move extremely fast helping these companies build real applied applications for these for these headsets and and classes. Like on on our side we can do so much more with with less resources and and and and more rapid development, but the the enterprise companies have to be in a position where they have the people to to put these programs in place and and champion getting the pilots through and if they remove the people that have that capability, it's not gonna happen. You know? So that's a problem for sure. I haven't had any of those discussions today, but I would imagine there's people walking around thinking like, you know, if if if they take out part of our group or all of our group, like this is never gonna happen, right?
Gene Feldman: Yeah. Yeah, because I because I just wonder how gun shy maybe some people are now from all that. So all right. And so any other I I want to keep this really short for you guys because th there's a lot of commotion as well as you know that these conferences for those that are listening, these conferences are one of the best things about them that make them great is the networking. getting a chance to talk to a lot of different companies. Honestly, that's how that this podcast even started. We've all been friends by meeting at the conferences for the past couple of years and have just enjoyed each other's feedback and and conversation. So I don't want you guys to miss that opportunity because I know right now is about happy hour time on free drinks. So I don't want you guys to miss it. so I'm gonna give you guys the final protocol. what what's something that you would like to leave with the listeners as a takeaway from the conference so far?
Mike Vann: Yeah, I'll go first. So I I just feel like there's palpable momentum right now. And Lucky and I were talking a little bit earlier. That hasn't resulted in contracts and actual projects being greenlit, but the n the number of real discussions around real opportunities to to leverage some of what's coming out on the hardware side and on the on the you know, Android XR or NVIDIA XR AI. there there's real increased activity there from the enterprise side. Doesn't you know, we're we've all been in this long enough not to bank on that, but it is very different from a year ago. So that's good and we're hoping we can convert those things.
Gene Feldman: Nice.
Lucky Gobindram: I I echo what Mike said real quick. What I can tell from the conversations, people continue to say they have budget. They have problems they wanna solve. There's budget. And they don't have time but they have money. Right? So how how do they actually materialize that is to be seen. I mean the contracts aren't signed yet, think it's not on the paper, but you know, the word on the street is like we have money, we wanna invest in this and this is the time that we're gonna do it. So I hope that that materializes, but I think the energy is there
Ash Gobindram: Yeah, I'd add to that and I'd say it's the the right kinds of organizations, you know, through like American institutions, blue chip companies that, you know, have had some success and are thinking about, you know, how do they push it to the next level with some of the solutions that are coming to the surface now. so I think if they're able to systemize it and produce results with it, then that only speaks to, you know, the domino effect that could occur with, you know, other mid sized, you know, less smaller organizations within the country. So
Gene Feldman: No, very nice. Glad to hear. Especially glad to hear that there's excitement building again. Cause last year I remember kind of leaving that there was almost a feeling of doom in air because we didn't know what AI was gonna do. But it's nice to kind of see that it it's the excitement's coming back. So it kinda gives some some great hope for the future. Yeah. So all right guys, so we are at thirty minutes, so or a little bit less, but I'm gonna go ahead and let you guys go. Thank you all for joining the latest episode of Neon Protocol. Again, you can catch us on all the main on all the main listening services as well as on LinkedIn. So get go ahead and take a listen and follow along. And please share along. So with everybody, thank you so much for joining, guys, and have a blast at the rest of the conference. And next week we're going to be recording our next episode. So we'll do a little, again, a rehash afterwards and kind of see what everybody's vibe was coming out of it. So thank you guys so much and have safe travels back.
