Ripley on Netflix: Navigating Adaptation and Identity

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Victor: Welcome everybody to another
episode of Need Some Introduction.
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In today's episode, I'll be discussing
the new Netflix series, Ripley, based
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on the classic Patricia Highsmith
novel, newly available on Netflix.
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First, I'm going to give you some
background on the project, on Highsmith
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herself, on the history of this book,
which has been adapted multiple times.
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And after getting that introductory
content out of the way, I'll be discussing
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with Sona the first three episodes.
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of the series.
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And in that section, we will begin with no
spoilers at all, and then spoil the first
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three episodes and only the first three
episodes, which is all that she has seen.
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However, I have seen the entire thing.
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And then after that segment of the
conversation, I'll be solo again,
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talking about not only the remainder
of the series, how I appreciated
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the show more as it went along.
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So I wasn't fully engaged in those first
three episodes, but I actually very much
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did enjoy the series by the conclusion.
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And I'll get into all those thoughts
Plus, along the way, as I break all of
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that down, I will also be discussing the
previous adaptations of this very book,
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the Ripley character in general, and of
course many recommendations along the way
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as we touch on these different topics.
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All right, to kick things off, this
series directed by and written by Steve
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Zalian was actually originally produced
for Showtime, and you'll see it at the
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very beginning title sequence of the
series that it is a Showtime production.
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And if you are long time listeners of
this podcast, you would know that when
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Sona and I begin discussing shows on here,
one of the first things I mentioned to
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her is that, hey, we should Watch that
Ripley show when it finally comes to
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showtime and we brought that up because
I'll get into this But the legacy of this
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work itself you think about all these
charming esoteric Sociopaths that are so
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popular in the movies and series of today.
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They all harken back really to this Tom
Ripley character But as I mentioned,
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this was in production in 2019, maybe
perhaps before the pandemic, even I'm
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not sure exactly of the dates, but then
it was supposed to air back in 2020.
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And then it was delayed and delayed.
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And then eventually Netflix acquired
it, which I actually at the time thought
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was a good idea because of the series.
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You, one of the most successful
Netflix series heavily indebted to
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the Ripley character and Netflix
using its algorithm could easily plug.
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The trailers for this series in front
of everybody who'd watched you, which
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is quite a large number of people.
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So a little bit about Steve's alien.
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First of all, Sona and I have
also discussed this on the
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podcast here as a recommendation.
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One of the most recent things he had
done before producing this series.
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Was the absolutely excellent,
really highly recommended.
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You must track this series down if
you have HBO or max, the one for HBO,
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a series called the night of, which
is an adaptation, another adaptation
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of a British crime procedural, but
just one of the very best series I've
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seen in the past five to 10 years.
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Definitely track that down.
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He began all the way back in the 1990s.
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writing and directing a film
called Searching for Bobby Fisher.
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He is more famous as a
screenwriter for other directors.
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And this is just some, just some
of the incredible screenplays
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he's been involved with.
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Schindler's List, just a little
film called Schindler's List.
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The original Mission Impossible.
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Hannibal, the adaptation of
the Hannibal Lecter novel.
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Moneyball, excellent
screenplay for Moneyball.
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The U.
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S.
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version of The Girl
with the Dragon Tattoo.
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And multiple Martin Scorsese movies,
including The Irishman, also a Netflix
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production from a few years back.
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Excellent script there as well.
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And he has directed
here and there as well.
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Directed, just to name a few, the Bobby
Fischer movie, as I mentioned, A Civil
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Action, the film adaptation of the non
fiction book starring John Travolta.
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And of course, as I mentioned,
the TV series, The Night Of.
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This film, uh, this series, I should
say, stars Andrew Scott as Ripley.
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You'll recognize him as
Moriarty from Sherlock, still
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available on Netflix, I believe.
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If you haven't watched
that, very entertaining.
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Also memorable in an episode of
Black Mirror, also on Netflix.
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Very Netflix heavy here.
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Became probably most famous recently
for playing Hot Priest on Fleabag, for
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anybody who saw Season 2 of Fleabag.
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And, of course, very recently was
in award contention for his role
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in All of Us Strangers, which
is available on Hulu right now.
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I definitely want to have a
conversation about that film, a
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film that I thought was excellent
until the end, but features a twist.
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Once again, I don't want to spoil anything
here, but features a twist, which I
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thought was completely unnecessary.
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and hurt the film to a large extent.
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However, all that being said,
Andrew Scott gives a excellent
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performance in that film.
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As Dickie Greenleaf, we have Johnny
Flynn, a musician turned actor.
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I have recommended another film here.
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If you want to just start writing down
your recommendations, I will probably
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put together a letterboxed list of
recommendations for this episode.
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And do check out my letterbox.
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I'll put, once again, the
Link in the show notes.
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It's just easier for me
to put everything there.
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You'll see that I have put movie reviews,
things I don't actually cover here on the
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show, as well as lists and recommendations
associated to these episodes.
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So do, there's my little
advertisement, do check out Letterboxd.
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The link is in the show notes once again.
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It doesn't cost you anything.
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So yes, the recommendation,
Johnny Flynn related.
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I don't know much that he's done.
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He actually had a series here
on Netflix that was pretty
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popular when he was much younger.
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Started as a musician, became an actor.
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I think he has an interesting thing.
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energy as an actor.
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Interesting that he's cast here
as Dickie Greenleaf, and I'll get
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into my thoughts on him once the
conversation with Sona begins.
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But the film I would recommend is a
film starring him, but primarily, uh,
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mainly around Jesse Buckley, who to
a large extent emerged with this low
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budget psychological horror film called
Beast, where I think that Flynn's awkward
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charisma is probably best used And I
don't want to spoil anything in that film,
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but you'll have to watch it to know why.
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I think he kind of fits
better in that type of role.
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Anyway, just another
recommendation for all of you.
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Do check out Beast and features an
incredible performance, by the way,
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Jesse Buckley's performance there, which
really launched her whole entire career.
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And she's, to me, one of the most
exciting actresses working today.
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And also Dakota Fanning
here as Marge Sherwood.
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Also, I got to call out one
more technical detail here.
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This entire series is.
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DP, Director of Photography,
Cinematography, however you want to
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annotate it, by Robert Elswit, who's
been working for a very long time.
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He started off doing special effects
work all the way back in early 80s.
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E.
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T., for example, just one of the films he
worked on, of many very large blockbusters
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he did early in his career, transitioned
into being a director of photography, all
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the way back with Paul Thomas Anderson's
first film, Hard Eight, and he stuck
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with Anderson for quite some time.
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Anderson is primarily
shooting his own films now.
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But just some really memorable,
visually memorable, and
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striking films he's worked on.
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Punch Drunk Love, PTA once
again, Paul Thomas Anderson.
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There Will Be Blood, obviously.
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Anyone who's seen that, you know
the incredible images in that film.
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And he's also become the go to guy for
Dan Gilroy, including another film we've
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discussed here on the show, Nightcrawler.
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He's also had a very interesting
collaboration with George Clooney,
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although Clooney is the actor and
sometimes just occasionally the
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producer on some of these films, he
has become the cinematographer of
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choice for most of Clooney's films.
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Most notably, Good Night and Good
Luck, which Clooney directed, also
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shot in black and white, which almost
certainly is the reason he got this
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particular project, along with the fact
that, of course, he was also zillions.
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director of photography in the really
strikingly photographed The Night
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Of, once again, that same series.
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He's also done several of the Mission
Impossible movies, speaking of Mission
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Impossible Connection, Ben Affleck's movie
The Town, and Angelina Jolie's action film
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Salt, all very visually striking films.
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So really, he is a total pro, but
maybe never more so than he is
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here with the absolutely stunning
black and white photography.
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Every frame of this film
could be a postcard.
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And that could be a little distracting
to be totally honest with you, but
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regardless of how it's deployed, I
have to say the visuals here are so
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stunning that I think if you don't
enjoy the narrative, you'll probably
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appreciate the visuals if nothing else.
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I watched this movie and I think
to myself, why isn't everything
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shot in black and white?
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I'm going to desaturate my TV screen
and watch everything in black and white.
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Okay, one more ingredient here before
we get into the conversation with Sona,
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we got to talk about Patricia Highsmith
herself, a really interesting character.
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This book, as dark as it is, It was
written in 1955 by Patricia Highsmith.
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She was still in her twenties.
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Actually, let's go back a
step, came out of college.
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She had already started writing stories,
short stories, sometimes under an alias.
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She would write lesbian fiction.
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She was a lesbian, but closeted at the
time, you needed to be professionally,
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but had also started to write thrillers
and she found that she really had
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a knack for writing thrillers.
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She kept a diary her whole entire life,
so this is all very well documented
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if you read her diary entries.
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And after graduating from college, she
went to Barnard, actually, in New York.
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She did some advertising work.
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She worked at Marvel for a little
while, actually briefly dated Stan
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Lee at Marvel, and wrote some comics.
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And then still in her 20s, she
wrote Strangers on a Train,
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and the book became a huge hit.
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And then she adapted her own book
for the Hitchcock movie, which was a
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huge hit in the in 1951, I believe,
about a year after the book came out.
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And that made her career.
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She was basically set
for life at that point.
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About five years later, she wrote
a book called The Price of Salt.
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She's still now in her
late 20s, let's say.
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All the women, this is, uh, there's
a reason I'm going to get into her
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personal life here, but all these
women that she had affairs with, had
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over time, eventually settled down,
gotten married, had children, and there
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was a lot of internalized antagonism,
and maybe some self loathing that
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Highsmith reflects in her diaries.
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As a matter of fact, at this period
of time, she had been recommended by
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her psychotherapist, recommended that
she go to a support group for latent,
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quote unquote, latent lesbians, women
who had started traditional lives
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and were using the support group as a
way to vent their internal struggles.
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And she did decide to attend this, but
primarily in her diaries mentioned that
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she wanted to seduce some of these women.
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Now, how much of this is her self
mythologizing or being sarcastic
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and how much of it is real is
all open to interpretation.
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But what is important here is that
at this moment in time, she worked
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part time when she was still trying
to get her finances in order.
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and discover her career path.
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She worked as a counter girl
at a department store and she
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interacted with a very glamorous
older woman and then fantasized an
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affair between her and that woman.
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And that of course became the novel,
The Price of Salt, which if that plot
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sounds familiar, you've probably seen
the movie Carol from a few years back.
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The Academy Award nominated
film featuring Cate Blanchett
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and Rooney Mara in those roles.
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Now, interestingly, her novels from
this point on are almost all thrillers
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and extremely psychologically dark.
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But in this film, not only is it
a romance, but there is a happy
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ending for the protagonists.
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But there's a dark side to this.
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In real life, she began to
stalk this woman for which she
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wrote this, this fantasized plot
around her interactions with her.
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And at one point became so obsessed
with her that she started to
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fantasize about killing this woman.
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And in her diaries, once again,
she describes that she envisioned
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homicide was a form of lovemaking.
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So that kind of gives you a little
insight into the psychology that
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she was, uh, or where she was at
psychologically at this moment.
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So, I say all this because this is
also the same year that she writes the
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first Tom Ripley novel, known as Mr.
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Ripley, just Mr.
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Ripley, or The Talented Mr.
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Ripley, depending on
which edition you have.
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Which, of course, is the foundation
of this entire series we're
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going to discuss here with you
today, the season of the show.
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She was so obsessed with the Tom character
that she began to sign her notes Tom.
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So she very much, if you have
any question in your mind, which
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character in the story she is aligning
herself to, she very much sees Tom.
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herself in the Tom Ripley character.
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And you can imagine that the sexual
confusion and the misanthropic view of
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these characters around her are very much
her personal diary entries, practically
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transcribed to a fictionalized storyline.
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So when doing press following the release
of the book, which was very successful at
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the time, there's actually been multiple
sequels, five books, I believe five Ripley
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books before she passed away in the 1990s.
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She had stated that her goal was to quote
show the unequivocal triumph of evil
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over good Unquote but also to not just
represent it but to have the readers quote
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rejoice in it so the goal is to have us as
the reader reluctantly or Enthusiastically
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put ourselves in Tom's shoes and root for
him to get away with murder Literally, and
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of course the legacy of that is all over
prestige TV and pop culture in general.
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Think about Hannibal Lecter.
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Think about the series You on Netflix.
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Think about Dexter, the serial killer
who kills other serial killers.
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And really a generation of films and TV
series where we have these Moralizing
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psychopaths that rationalize their
behavior that we secretly or overtly
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root for and not to mention all of
the antiheroes in our prestige TV,
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whether that is Tony Soprano or Walter
White or a litter of other antiheroes.
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I Smith's diaries also reflect
the fact that she was very
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antisemitic, oftentimes racist.
249
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She also hated women.
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She was physically attracted
to them, but hated them.
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She loved the company of men who she found
to be intellectually smarter than women.
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In her assessment, that's not my
assessment, but was uninterested in sexual
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relationships with them, although she
sometimes did have them, but she described
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it in her diaries as kissing a man was
like kissing the side of a cereal box.
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All this is to say she's a very
complicated character, but all of this
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00:14:06,239 --> 00:14:10,600
hatred of other people, this misanthropy,
this racism, this antisemitism, but
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across the board, not only did she hate
pretty much everybody, she hated herself.
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And I think you see the psychology
of this extremely judgmental and yet
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extremely self loathing character
in all of her antiheroes, and never
260
00:14:23,965 --> 00:14:26,144
more so than in the Ripley character.
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And I think that's what makes these
books still so fascinating to read today.
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Okay, so let me get into
the conversation with Sona.
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Once again, no spoilers
to start things off.
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Then we will get into spoilers.
265
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We'll give you a warning.
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We get into spoilers in
the first three episodes.
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So if you haven't watched anything We'll
go spoiler free, and then we will discuss
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00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:48,869
the first three episodes, if you've seen
only part of the series, and then by
269
00:14:48,869 --> 00:14:52,699
myself, I will be back at the end of the
episode to break down the final episodes,
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00:14:52,699 --> 00:14:57,929
but more importantly, for me to discuss
my own thoughts on the adaptation of
271
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this story versus previous adaptations.
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00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,410
And I'm always very interested in
the process of adaptation, what
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the creator of the show or movie
decides to include and exclude.
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It's more interesting than the
story itself, oftentimes to me.
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And I will do a little comparison
with other Ripley films.
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All right, Sona.
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So any eclipse plans for today?
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RipleySona: Um, I am going to pick
my son up at the end of the regular
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school day instead of having him
attend the after school program.
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And tentative plan is to watch from
right outside our building, which has
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like a little elevated overpass area,
hoping that that will be a good view.
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How about you?
283
00:15:43,281 --> 00:15:43,491
Do
284
00:15:43,681 --> 00:15:46,731
Victor: I mean, I'm picking her up right
at the peak of the eclipse, so probably
285
00:15:46,731 --> 00:15:49,161
just going to stare directly at the sun.
286
00:15:49,481 --> 00:15:49,921
No, just kidding.
287
00:15:50,071 --> 00:15:50,501
But, uh,
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RipleySona: have your eclipse glasses?
289
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Victor: They gave her some at school.
290
00:15:54,296 --> 00:15:57,536
I am just going to, I don't have,
I didn't pick up any for myself.
291
00:15:57,536 --> 00:16:01,076
I'm just going to use sunglasses and
a pinhole, just basically a pinhole.
292
00:16:01,341 --> 00:16:01,751
RipleySona: Okay.
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00:16:02,161 --> 00:16:04,771
I'm very proud of myself for
remembering to order the glasses
294
00:16:04,771 --> 00:16:06,080
from Amazon two weeks ago.
295
00:16:06,286 --> 00:16:06,766
Victor: Good job.
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00:16:06,786 --> 00:16:07,196
Excellent.
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00:16:07,851 --> 00:16:08,291
RipleySona: Thank you.
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Victor: Another apropos of nothing,
considering we're going to be
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discussing today, I did want to
let you know that there is a new
300
00:16:13,616 --> 00:16:15,196
episode of Bluey currently available.
301
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It's cute, nothing, uh, super fancy
about it, but all of that is just a
302
00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:23,006
little teaser for a 30 minute episode.
303
00:16:23,016 --> 00:16:27,046
The longest Bluey episode ever is from
here this week, this upcoming week.
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So check that out.
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00:16:28,341 --> 00:16:31,481
RipleySona: Wait, so now Disney is just
getting these episodes up one at a time?
306
00:16:31,501 --> 00:16:32,311
What's happening?
307
00:16:33,111 --> 00:16:35,441
Victor: I don't know why
they did the one episode.
308
00:16:35,441 --> 00:16:38,301
It gets, it's like a, just a left,
I don't know if it's a leftover
309
00:16:38,331 --> 00:16:41,021
or if it's something from next
season that they're previewing just
310
00:16:41,071 --> 00:16:43,361
because, you know, the thing is
such a phenomenon now that I guess
311
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they're just trying to keep it going.
312
00:16:45,331 --> 00:16:47,871
But the 30 minute special was
something they've had planned.
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00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:51,321
Obviously they've probably been producing
this for like a year to, to, this is
314
00:16:51,321 --> 00:16:52,641
the longest episode they've ever done.
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00:16:53,071 --> 00:16:56,291
So that it's been in the works,
but I don't know why we got this
316
00:16:56,291 --> 00:17:00,461
random new episode other than just
to, I guess, as a way to remind
317
00:17:00,461 --> 00:17:02,681
people that the special is coming.
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00:17:03,111 --> 00:17:05,591
RipleySona: Is it something that
has already come out in Australia?
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00:17:06,001 --> 00:17:07,391
Victor: No, I think it is a worldwide.
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00:17:07,391 --> 00:17:10,551
This is for the first time, by the
way, this is a worldwide Disney plus
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turning this into a true worldwide brand.
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00:17:12,811 --> 00:17:13,921
So if you are a bluey fan,
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RipleySona: Yeah, I support that.
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00:17:15,631 --> 00:17:15,931
Great.
325
00:17:15,931 --> 00:17:16,471
Let's do it.
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Victor: I'm always a fan.
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00:17:17,586 --> 00:17:20,066
So we've already seen the new episode.
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We just watched it yesterday, actually.
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And it's cute.
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Like I said, cute, a haunted, uh,
they pretend that be that the house is
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00:17:25,436 --> 00:17:26,576
haunted when they're trying to sell it.
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So, okay.
333
00:17:29,356 --> 00:17:31,156
So now, so we're talking about Ripley.
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I did a intro, which will be before
this conversation in the episode itself,
335
00:17:36,156 --> 00:17:40,026
where I talk about, you know, Patricia
Highsmith and actually something I wanted
336
00:17:40,026 --> 00:17:41,526
to mention to you, a couple of things.
337
00:17:41,946 --> 00:17:46,096
One was part of the reason I wanted to
have this conversation with you about
338
00:17:46,766 --> 00:17:50,156
Season of this show or just this show
in general was because I don't don't
339
00:17:50,156 --> 00:17:53,066
even know if you remember this, but
this was originally gonna be on Showtime
340
00:17:53,396 --> 00:17:56,876
and probably like some two years ago,
I was like, oh, since you like the show
341
00:17:56,876 --> 00:18:01,616
you, when we, that Ripley show comes
out, two and a half years ago when it
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was originally supposed to come out.
343
00:18:03,056 --> 00:18:04,086
We should talk about it.
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00:18:04,406 --> 00:18:07,206
And now here we are years later,
it was a Showtime production.
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You see it right in the title card here.
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Eventually, I don't know what
happened for some reason.
347
00:18:11,016 --> 00:18:12,486
Showtime never put it on the air.
348
00:18:12,786 --> 00:18:15,836
And then there were delays with
the writer strike with a pandemic.
349
00:18:16,186 --> 00:18:17,476
So this thing has just been dragging on.
350
00:18:17,506 --> 00:18:20,826
And then I think it was probably
when we were covering maybe
351
00:18:20,826 --> 00:18:22,536
the Dexter reboot or something.
352
00:18:22,706 --> 00:18:24,666
I mentioned that, Oh, Netflix owns it now.
353
00:18:24,666 --> 00:18:28,811
So maybe after you wraps up,
they'll Put it on the air.
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00:18:28,811 --> 00:18:30,421
And that's probably a
year ago at this point.
355
00:18:30,451 --> 00:18:34,371
And still now, finally, after
all of that, we get Ripley.
356
00:18:34,761 --> 00:18:38,001
But a few things, one was that we've
discussed it in passing multiple times.
357
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Also, it intersects with things
we've discussed here on the show.
358
00:18:40,571 --> 00:18:44,341
Obviously Dexter, another sociopath,
your love of the show, Hannibal,
359
00:18:44,341 --> 00:18:47,161
another very esoteric sociopath, right?
360
00:18:47,221 --> 00:18:51,901
A very moralizing, uh, sociopath, uh,
the, the show, all of these shows are
361
00:18:51,981 --> 00:18:54,911
basically very indebted to the original.
362
00:18:55,131 --> 00:18:57,051
Recipe Ripley character.
363
00:18:57,441 --> 00:19:00,201
Uh, and of course we have even other
connections here in the podcast.
364
00:19:00,441 --> 00:19:05,091
We covered the sh the movie, um, do
Revenge, which is loosely based on
365
00:19:05,301 --> 00:19:08,421
Strangers on a Train, which of course
was written by Patricia Highsmith,
366
00:19:08,421 --> 00:19:10,901
also the author of the Ripley novels.
367
00:19:11,371 --> 00:19:14,491
And one last thing, of course, we
did Dark Water, which is also based
368
00:19:14,491 --> 00:19:16,081
on a Patricia Highsmith novel.
369
00:19:16,081 --> 00:19:20,091
So we've been circling around , the
Ripley character, and Patricia Highsmith
370
00:19:20,091 --> 00:19:22,161
in general on this podcast for a while.
371
00:19:22,661 --> 00:19:25,371
RipleySona: Did not realize
all those connections.
372
00:19:25,501 --> 00:19:25,821
Victor: I see.
373
00:19:25,821 --> 00:19:26,271
Now, you know,
374
00:19:26,711 --> 00:19:31,761
RipleySona: And it seems what you have
really been saying to me underneath the
375
00:19:31,761 --> 00:19:36,171
surface is that I have a bizarre interest
in sociopaths, which is probably true.
376
00:19:36,621 --> 00:19:37,191
, also
377
00:19:37,251 --> 00:19:39,941
Victor: but aren't we all given the
fact that of all those things that
378
00:19:39,941 --> 00:19:43,391
just described that, you know, are
very culturally relevant even now,
379
00:19:43,431 --> 00:19:44,781
aren't we all right, basically,
380
00:19:45,951 --> 00:19:46,821
RipleySona: Yes, fair.
381
00:19:46,831 --> 00:19:47,861
I'm in good company.
382
00:19:48,151 --> 00:19:51,791
And also something that I think we
haven't discussed, but that, um, I
383
00:19:51,791 --> 00:19:55,571
was reminded of when I was watching
these first few episodes is six
384
00:19:55,571 --> 00:19:59,701
degrees of separation, which is a dated
reference probably for a lot of people.
385
00:19:59,991 --> 00:20:04,141
I started thinking like, is there
this whole genre of people of movies?
386
00:20:04,576 --> 00:20:09,446
about people trying to be fraudulently
entering into high society and I
387
00:20:09,446 --> 00:20:10,976
just never really paid attention.
388
00:20:10,986 --> 00:20:13,906
Like it might be its own
little subcategory of movies.
389
00:20:14,461 --> 00:20:15,261
Victor: it certainly has.
390
00:20:15,291 --> 00:20:15,761
I think.
391
00:20:15,771 --> 00:20:19,681
And , Ripley, I think is so foundational
to this mythology, but I, I probably
392
00:20:19,681 --> 00:20:23,481
would have to go back and think of some
of the, like the, um, Jim Thompson novels,
393
00:20:23,931 --> 00:20:28,531
1930s and forties, which probably had
a lot of these motifs in it as well.
394
00:20:28,691 --> 00:20:31,211
But I think really the
idea of like the stylish.
395
00:20:31,746 --> 00:20:34,636
Sycophantic sociopath, the popular.
396
00:20:35,156 --> 00:20:39,806
Representation of that character, which
is all over the cinema of the eighties
397
00:20:39,806 --> 00:20:43,086
and nineties and currently, obviously,
and not only that, but I think there's
398
00:20:43,086 --> 00:20:46,496
something that we can talk about the
cultural relevance of this show at this
399
00:20:46,496 --> 00:20:52,656
moment, we all have this parasocial sick
relationship with celebrities, this love,
400
00:20:52,656 --> 00:20:54,406
hate relationship with the super rich.
401
00:20:54,791 --> 00:20:57,981
And I think, uh, all of that's
been there all along, basically.
402
00:20:58,111 --> 00:21:01,561
And I think Ripley is an origin
story to a lot of that mythology.
403
00:21:01,901 --> 00:21:05,271
We just, it's just so in the culture,
you don't even think about it anymore,
404
00:21:05,271 --> 00:21:06,961
but it's been there for a very long time.
405
00:21:07,381 --> 00:21:09,301
So the other reason I wanted to
bring this up to you is we have
406
00:21:09,321 --> 00:21:13,181
in passing mentioned the original
of the original, not the original.
407
00:21:13,181 --> 00:21:18,931
Actually, I take that back, but the 1999,
a very important year in 1999, by the
408
00:21:18,931 --> 00:21:21,591
way, 25th anniversary of the talented.
409
00:21:21,836 --> 00:21:22,156
Mr.
410
00:21:22,156 --> 00:21:26,136
Ripley with Matt Damon, a very important
moment in his career, obviously, and
411
00:21:26,136 --> 00:21:29,716
everybody in that film, that year's the
year the matrix came out that year,
412
00:21:29,726 --> 00:21:32,996
fight club that came out that year,
uh, the sixth sense came out that year,
413
00:21:32,996 --> 00:21:35,316
a huge year for, for movies in 99.
414
00:21:35,566 --> 00:21:37,946
And this, one of those
movies was the talented Mr.
415
00:21:37,946 --> 00:21:41,486
Ripley, but a movie that you
have told me puts you to sleep.
416
00:21:42,676 --> 00:21:43,996
So to that point,
417
00:21:45,561 --> 00:21:49,341
RipleySona: have tried at least three
separate times to watch that movie and
418
00:21:49,341 --> 00:21:53,671
I swear it's at the same point every
time right after the Philip Seymour
419
00:21:53,671 --> 00:22:00,191
Hoffman character is introduced I cannot
keep my eyes open any longer and it
420
00:22:00,211 --> 00:22:04,151
doesn't make any sense to me because
I'm interested in the movie and that's
421
00:22:04,161 --> 00:22:08,741
why I tried it three times and somehow
my body just shuts down involuntarily
422
00:22:08,741 --> 00:22:10,351
every time I try and watch it.
423
00:22:10,661 --> 00:22:10,761
Mm
424
00:22:10,896 --> 00:22:13,516
Victor: I saw that I have to tell you
that in, and I'm going to discuss it in
425
00:22:13,516 --> 00:22:17,426
greater detail here in the podcast, this
adaptation and the previous adaptations,
426
00:22:17,426 --> 00:22:19,716
the ones that I've watched, there's some
that I haven't watched, but the ones that
427
00:22:19,716 --> 00:22:23,296
I have watched and compare and contrast,
because I'm a very interested, obviously
428
00:22:23,316 --> 00:22:29,576
adaptation is the beats of the plot
are nearly identical in these different
429
00:22:29,586 --> 00:22:34,006
movies, but what you include, what you
exclude the additional conversations you
430
00:22:34,006 --> 00:22:38,351
put in there, the Supplemental details
are very interesting because it really
431
00:22:38,351 --> 00:22:40,481
changes the context of the characters.
432
00:22:40,481 --> 00:22:42,681
And that's really interesting to me,
like the whole idea of doing that
433
00:22:42,901 --> 00:22:44,441
and why you do some of those choices.
434
00:22:44,821 --> 00:22:49,021
But all that is to say that, , in
recapping or remembering the
435
00:22:49,021 --> 00:22:54,246
details of that film, It's almost
a perfect adaptation for large
436
00:22:54,246 --> 00:22:56,176
stretches of the novel itself.
437
00:22:56,216 --> 00:22:58,936
And yet it didn't really work for me.
438
00:22:59,196 --> 00:23:00,806
It's incredibly impeccably made.
439
00:23:00,806 --> 00:23:02,036
This is the 99 movie I'm talking about,
440
00:23:02,416 --> 00:23:02,556
RipleySona: hmm.
441
00:23:03,036 --> 00:23:03,406
Mm hmm.
442
00:23:03,566 --> 00:23:04,246
Victor: for me either.
443
00:23:04,626 --> 00:23:06,996
And I saw that in the theater
and I have tried to watch it
444
00:23:06,996 --> 00:23:08,606
again, uh, on cable or whatever.
445
00:23:08,606 --> 00:23:10,186
And similarly, I just tune it out.
446
00:23:10,186 --> 00:23:13,396
And I don't know why, because just
visually it's so stunning and everybody's
447
00:23:13,396 --> 00:23:15,416
so attractive in the film itself.
448
00:23:15,546 --> 00:23:18,336
You'd figure you could just, there'd
be enough there to, you know, Keep me
449
00:23:18,336 --> 00:23:20,126
engaged, but, but I do struggle with it.
450
00:23:20,126 --> 00:23:23,796
But by the way, one real highlight
is I think, , Philip Seymour Hoffman
451
00:23:23,796 --> 00:23:27,496
playing, uh, Freddie is really maybe the
highlight of that whole entire movie.
452
00:23:27,631 --> 00:23:28,091
RipleySona: Sure.
453
00:23:28,481 --> 00:23:30,391
I mean, the one scene I saw, absolutely.
454
00:23:30,796 --> 00:23:32,176
Victor: Well, he's only in
a few seats to be honest,
455
00:23:32,241 --> 00:23:32,881
RipleySona: Is that right?
456
00:23:32,921 --> 00:23:33,621
I wouldn't know.
457
00:23:33,926 --> 00:23:35,996
Victor: that first, the first couple
of scenes where he's there, he's
458
00:23:36,006 --> 00:23:39,486
really the whole screen of like such
a star and such a loss, by the way.
459
00:23:40,221 --> 00:23:41,281
RipleySona: Yes, absolutely.
460
00:23:41,501 --> 00:23:44,221
Victor: 10th year anniversary of
him passing just a few weeks ago.
461
00:23:45,141 --> 00:23:48,961
RipleySona: I mean, I think also there
is just something for me personally
462
00:23:49,031 --> 00:23:55,451
about that film noir feel that
makes me very sleepy, I will say.
463
00:23:55,481 --> 00:23:55,801
Victor: Yes.
464
00:23:56,071 --> 00:24:01,021
Well, so that's a good segue here that,
the, that is very much one of those sun
465
00:24:01,031 --> 00:24:02,811
drenched Noirs, if you can even call
466
00:24:02,816 --> 00:24:03,596
RipleySona: Mm hmm.
467
00:24:03,821 --> 00:24:08,511
Victor: Uh, this very much is leaning
into, I'm not sure if this It qualifies
468
00:24:08,551 --> 00:24:11,731
as a noir for the fact that it just
doesn't have some of the components of it.
469
00:24:11,971 --> 00:24:16,311
It is very much in the genre of,
or I should say , , , adjacent
470
00:24:16,341 --> 00:24:17,271
to noir for sure.
471
00:24:17,471 --> 00:24:19,831
But of course they've decided
to make it in black and white.
472
00:24:19,831 --> 00:24:23,031
So very much winking at that
style of those noir films
473
00:24:23,041 --> 00:24:24,091
from the 1930s and forties.
474
00:24:24,301 --> 00:24:28,271
So given everything you just said,
Sona, I kind of thought this would
475
00:24:28,281 --> 00:24:31,601
also put you to sleep, but it seems
like you did like it more than, than
476
00:24:31,601 --> 00:24:33,011
you did the, for the previous version.
477
00:24:33,946 --> 00:24:36,706
RipleySona: so I, I will say first
of all, I probably don't know the
478
00:24:36,706 --> 00:24:38,486
technical definition of film noir.
479
00:24:38,496 --> 00:24:41,796
I just think of it as anything
with that 1940s kind of feel to it.
480
00:24:41,886 --> 00:24:46,376
Um, so I'm using it very loosely, so
I am probably using it incorrectly,
481
00:24:46,376 --> 00:24:49,466
but you know what I mean, that
feel of those 1940s movies and the
482
00:24:49,466 --> 00:24:51,676
way people talk and all of that.
483
00:24:51,726 --> 00:24:55,706
They generally are quiet movies compared
to what we have now, things that are
484
00:24:55,896 --> 00:24:57,396
generally set in the current day.
485
00:24:57,786 --> 00:25:01,086
, Although past lives also very quiet, um,
486
00:25:01,366 --> 00:25:01,686
Victor: Yes.
487
00:25:01,726 --> 00:25:02,046
Yes.
488
00:25:02,416 --> 00:25:03,276
RipleySona: brings to mind.
489
00:25:03,326 --> 00:25:07,846
But yeah, so obviously I was
watching these with the intention
490
00:25:07,906 --> 00:25:09,356
of talking about it with you.
491
00:25:09,396 --> 00:25:12,526
So that might've given me a
little bit of an extra boost.
492
00:25:12,906 --> 00:25:15,726
I did find, and we texted about this.
493
00:25:16,146 --> 00:25:18,356
It's not only quiet, it's very slow.
494
00:25:19,636 --> 00:25:25,186
So there are definitely long scenes where
I'm kind of like, yeah, I got the message.
495
00:25:25,846 --> 00:25:26,136
Victor: Yes.
496
00:25:27,246 --> 00:25:30,376
RipleySona: My very 2024
state of mind short attention
497
00:25:30,376 --> 00:25:31,646
span, let's keep it moving.
498
00:25:32,036 --> 00:25:35,376
But I did feel there was
enough going on here.
499
00:25:35,406 --> 00:25:37,636
And I guess because I never
really did watch that first
500
00:25:37,636 --> 00:25:38,576
movie all the way through.
501
00:25:39,016 --> 00:25:42,156
I didn't feel like I had seen it all
and, , I already know what's going to
502
00:25:42,166 --> 00:25:43,846
happen, so let's hurry up and get to it.
503
00:25:43,846 --> 00:25:46,676
Like I kind of was focusing more
on it than I had in the past.
504
00:25:47,106 --> 00:25:48,516
So I did enjoy it.
505
00:25:48,526 --> 00:25:52,696
What do you think about the decision
to make it in black and white?
506
00:25:52,706 --> 00:25:56,406
Because, yeah, in contrast to the
Matt Damon movie, which was so,
507
00:25:56,846 --> 00:26:00,256
Beautiful, like sun drenched, like
you said, and the beautiful colors.
508
00:26:00,256 --> 00:26:04,096
And this is so beautifully shot
that I think like, gosh, it would
509
00:26:04,106 --> 00:26:06,326
be even more breathtaking in color.
510
00:26:06,326 --> 00:26:09,676
, I wonder what this decision was
about to do it in black and white.
511
00:26:10,366 --> 00:26:10,586
Victor: Yeah.
512
00:26:10,636 --> 00:26:13,256
, there's going to be a bunch of
recommendations in this podcast
513
00:26:13,306 --> 00:26:16,316
and I'm going to start with
not only the 99 talented Mr.
514
00:26:16,316 --> 00:26:18,646
Ripley, which like you mentioned,
you don't even need to see the
515
00:26:18,656 --> 00:26:19,906
whole movie to get a feel for that.
516
00:26:19,976 --> 00:26:22,926
So not last night, I just rewatched the
trailer, , it's one of those trailers
517
00:26:22,926 --> 00:26:25,096
that gives away the entire plot of
the movie for some bizarre reason.
518
00:26:25,436 --> 00:26:26,826
I was trying to remember.
519
00:26:26,826 --> 00:26:30,076
In the 99 version, doesn't
Matt Damon approach him on the
520
00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:31,466
beach and it's a crowded beach.
521
00:26:31,726 --> 00:26:32,426
And when they.
522
00:26:32,676 --> 00:26:36,166
run into Freddie, aren't they
among like a large group of people?
523
00:26:36,166 --> 00:26:38,816
So it just seemed like a much more
boisterous atmosphere that he's kind of
524
00:26:39,206 --> 00:26:42,576
RipleySona: Yeah, it was like in a
cafe, but like more crowded, right?
525
00:26:42,696 --> 00:26:42,876
Yeah.
526
00:26:43,136 --> 00:26:43,646
Victor: exactly.
527
00:26:43,656 --> 00:26:45,446
It's a much more kind of like resort area.
528
00:26:45,466 --> 00:26:46,936
And I'm like, , maybe I'm misremembering.
529
00:26:46,986 --> 00:26:49,306
And of course I watched the trailer and
all those scenes are in the trailer.
530
00:26:49,306 --> 00:26:50,936
So I'm like, Nope, there's a
whole bunch of people around.
531
00:26:51,626 --> 00:26:53,836
I got everything I needed
for watching the trailer.
532
00:26:54,606 --> 00:26:56,156
RipleySona: Maybe they
didn't have a big budget.
533
00:26:56,166 --> 00:26:59,326
So they had to really narrow down
the amount of people in this movie.
534
00:26:59,326 --> 00:26:59,436
They
535
00:26:59,546 --> 00:27:01,476
Victor: I mean, you could
pretty easily get at least
536
00:27:01,476 --> 00:27:02,736
another two people on the beach.
537
00:27:02,736 --> 00:27:04,256
It was like pretty, pretty sparse.
538
00:27:04,516 --> 00:27:07,066
So once again, I think very
intentional to your point and also
539
00:27:07,066 --> 00:27:10,566
making it black and white is once
again, a very intentional thing.
540
00:27:10,786 --> 00:27:13,746
It's changing the feel
of those interactions.
541
00:27:13,746 --> 00:27:13,956
Right.
542
00:27:14,371 --> 00:27:15,241
RipleySona: Yeah, for sure.
543
00:27:15,541 --> 00:27:19,121
Victor: I have a photography degree and
there's a general idea that when you
544
00:27:19,121 --> 00:27:22,651
shoot something in color, your reason
you're shooting something in color should
545
00:27:22,661 --> 00:27:24,721
be because you, the colors add something.
546
00:27:24,741 --> 00:27:28,491
And to your point, this beautiful
locale, obviously in color is one thing
547
00:27:28,781 --> 00:27:31,981
as opposed to when you , shoot in
black and white, you are drawing your
548
00:27:31,981 --> 00:27:34,071
attention a to people's expressions.
549
00:27:34,401 --> 00:27:35,511
and their facial details.
550
00:27:35,571 --> 00:27:39,161
And of course, architecturally
to like the lines on the screen.
551
00:27:39,331 --> 00:27:45,071
So I can see kind of the intention
with the, architectural elements.
552
00:27:45,791 --> 00:27:48,641
And of course, the intimacy of the
facial expressions, but I know you
553
00:27:48,641 --> 00:27:49,801
only watched the first three episodes.
554
00:27:50,171 --> 00:27:53,011
I'm not sure if they're already leaning
heavily into the whole Caravaggio
555
00:27:53,161 --> 00:27:56,421
parallel, which is something that's
been added by this, , filmmaker.
556
00:27:56,766 --> 00:27:58,926
RipleySona: it's come up several times.
557
00:27:58,926 --> 00:28:01,076
They've gone to see some of the paintings.
558
00:28:01,791 --> 00:28:02,821
Victor: It's very pronounced.
559
00:28:02,861 --> 00:28:06,881
They have a, whole sequence where
Caravaggio, , is on, , The lamb that this
560
00:28:06,881 --> 00:28:09,631
is a parallel that zillion has added to
561
00:28:09,761 --> 00:28:10,831
RipleySona: talked about this.
562
00:28:10,831 --> 00:28:11,231
Yes.
563
00:28:11,681 --> 00:28:14,061
Victor: But to that point, the
Caravaggio paintings, which are
564
00:28:14,071 --> 00:28:16,971
beautiful, even in black and white
are, big part of the plot here.
565
00:28:16,971 --> 00:28:18,571
But once again, you're shooting
them in black and white.
566
00:28:18,571 --> 00:28:19,551
So you're removing a big.
567
00:28:20,481 --> 00:28:22,861
detail, even from the
appreciation of the art itself.
568
00:28:23,081 --> 00:28:24,521
So obviously , very intentional.
569
00:28:24,711 --> 00:28:28,460
So , I have the same question you
have as to why the decision is made
570
00:28:28,850 --> 00:28:32,050
to make this in black and white,
but that all circles back to a
571
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:35,150
recommendation I think I have for you
specifically that you may appreciate.
572
00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:38,530
For me, this is the most entertaining
version of the Ripley story.
573
00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:42,520
There's a French movie called
Purple Noon was made in 1960.
574
00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:48,580
So it's only, , three years after the
first novel was available in Europe,
575
00:28:48,970 --> 00:28:53,505
and , this is a fictionalized town,
Of, , Positano basically in the, and I
576
00:28:53,505 --> 00:28:58,965
believe it was shot in Positano, but in
beautiful pastels, incredible colors.
577
00:28:59,365 --> 00:29:01,495
And I do recommend it for
you, Sona, for two reasons.
578
00:29:01,505 --> 00:29:05,685
One is that the visuals are just
beautiful to hear this, Italian music
579
00:29:05,945 --> 00:29:09,905
and the style that you're seeing here,
but to hear it in its contemporary time
580
00:29:09,905 --> 00:29:11,305
is really great to see like a true.
581
00:29:11,610 --> 00:29:12,700
Like moment in time.
582
00:29:12,990 --> 00:29:14,450
The cast is very attractive.
583
00:29:14,450 --> 00:29:18,410
A lot of fun to watch that as
a sun drenched noir in a way,
584
00:29:18,410 --> 00:29:19,700
like to your point earlier.
585
00:29:20,130 --> 00:29:23,420
, and lastly, because it has an ending
that's different than the novel
586
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,170
and a very entertaining ending.
587
00:29:25,170 --> 00:29:28,030
And I don't not want to give it away, but
especially even if you read the book and
588
00:29:28,050 --> 00:29:30,760
it, cause it completely changed it, you're
like, boy, I didn't see that coming.
589
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,530
And it's a lot of fun.
590
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:33,130
And that's called purple noon, by the way.
591
00:29:33,150 --> 00:29:34,330
I think it's easily available to stream.
592
00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:38,520
Oh, by the way, speaking of Steve
Zalian, going all the way back to
593
00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:42,460
the writer director of this series,
two things, one, I know you do love,
594
00:29:42,530 --> 00:29:43,940
He's done a lot of screenplays.
595
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,340
He's written for Spielberg, for Scorsese.
596
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,530
He wrote the, , American version
of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
597
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,890
He's, , basically got many Academy
Award nominations as a screenwriter.
598
00:29:54,130 --> 00:29:55,250
But I have two things for you.
599
00:29:55,250 --> 00:29:57,540
One, you've seen, I know if
you've seen for sure, which is
600
00:29:57,540 --> 00:29:58,880
The Night of, which is a great,
601
00:29:58,910 --> 00:29:59,540
RipleySona: Mhm.
602
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:00,330
Sure.
603
00:30:00,350 --> 00:30:01,350
Yeah, that's amazing.
604
00:30:01,370 --> 00:30:01,760
Yeah.
605
00:30:01,925 --> 00:30:05,255
Victor: same cinematographer, , not in
black and white, obviously, but beautiful
606
00:30:05,735 --> 00:30:08,235
photography of New York in that series.
607
00:30:08,435 --> 00:30:10,315
Great performances, yada, yada, yada.
608
00:30:10,795 --> 00:30:13,745
Another thing, , that he's done
that I recommend to you is the first
609
00:30:13,745 --> 00:30:17,015
film he ever directed and wrote
was searching for Bobby Fischer,
610
00:30:17,015 --> 00:30:18,675
which I know your son loves chess.
611
00:30:18,685 --> 00:30:20,105
So maybe something to watch with him.
612
00:30:20,115 --> 00:30:22,695
Maybe he'd be a couple of years
older, maybe a couple of years old.
613
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:23,870
RipleySona: Right, right.
614
00:30:24,255 --> 00:30:24,575
Victor: Okay.
615
00:30:24,575 --> 00:30:29,145
So first things first, , . What did
you think of Andrew Scott as Ripley?
616
00:30:29,490 --> 00:30:34,990
, RipleySona: in a way I'm comparing him
to Matt Damon, who again, my memory of
617
00:30:34,990 --> 00:30:40,360
the film is fuzzy, but I feel like it
is a, , grittier take on the character.
618
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,310
What do you think?
619
00:30:41,875 --> 00:30:46,985
Victor: I think this is the truest
to the novel version of Ripley.
620
00:30:47,135 --> 00:30:51,405
Ripley is pretty much a sociopath
from the get, , in the book.
621
00:30:51,805 --> 00:30:55,255
I think that the Matt Damon version,
they are trying to make him , A little
622
00:30:55,255 --> 00:31:01,125
naive and he becomes more slips into
this sociopathy over the time, of
623
00:31:01,125 --> 00:31:03,755
course, but I think you're supposed
to be sympathetic towards him, which
624
00:31:03,845 --> 00:31:05,975
I do not believe that is the case.
625
00:31:06,545 --> 00:31:09,625
, in the novel, the novel, , you are
basically rooting for a bad guy.
626
00:31:09,625 --> 00:31:12,955
You're not like a bad guy or I should
say good guy who is,, fighting for
627
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:13,430
RipleySona: In bad
628
00:31:13,595 --> 00:31:14,725
Victor: ends up doing bad things.
629
00:31:14,765 --> 00:31:15,125
Exactly.
630
00:31:16,025 --> 00:31:16,515
RipleySona: Right.
631
00:31:16,535 --> 00:31:20,895
It definitely seems like a harsher
portrayal than I was expecting.
632
00:31:20,895 --> 00:31:25,895
And this might just have to do with
Matt Damon as an actor generally.
633
00:31:25,995 --> 00:31:29,235
, or maybe it's the take on the character,
but , , less charismatic, right?
634
00:31:29,305 --> 00:31:32,485
, I'm more like, why are you letting
this guy hang around you so much?
635
00:31:34,475 --> 00:31:37,645
I didn't really remember questioning
in the original, uh, not original
636
00:31:37,665 --> 00:31:38,705
in the Matt Damon version.
637
00:31:38,935 --> 00:31:41,595
Let's just call it, I'm going to keep
calling it the Matt Damon version.
638
00:31:41,605 --> 00:31:42,275
Victor: Yeah, that's fine.
639
00:31:42,865 --> 00:31:44,355
I think that's how everybody
thinks of it anyway.
640
00:31:45,125 --> 00:31:48,255
What's strange about it to me, I'm
going to say some really negative things
641
00:31:48,275 --> 00:31:52,145
about the show, even though, honestly,
I'm just going to put it out there
642
00:31:52,145 --> 00:31:55,705
that , over the course of the show,
especially after the third episode, I
643
00:31:55,705 --> 00:31:57,895
really got into the vibe of the show.
644
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,570
And I started to understand more
of what it was trying to do.
645
00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:05,700
You haven't gotten this deep into the
show, but I do recommend you finish it.
646
00:32:05,930 --> 00:32:09,250
And there is an element where you
start seeing these rich people want
647
00:32:09,290 --> 00:32:13,540
to hang out with Marge because
they know , Oh, this tragedy.
648
00:32:13,670 --> 00:32:16,970
So they're , hangers on, they're
kind of bored and, and there's a
649
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:21,120
lot of negative, uh, critique of this
kind of this generation of wealthy.
650
00:32:21,465 --> 00:32:26,530
Americans living in Europe at this time
and you see them like starting to Enjoy
651
00:32:26,550 --> 00:32:32,160
the we're trying to glom on to these
folks because of the celebrity associated
652
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,670
to this crime itself, which is something
that's not explored as deeply in the
653
00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:38,920
book, but regardless, I think that
there's something interesting there in
654
00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:43,470
its exploration of that, and to your
point that how methodical episode three
655
00:32:43,690 --> 00:32:47,610
is very drawn out for the big sequence
that takes place in the middle there, or
656
00:32:48,005 --> 00:32:50,025
in the whole back half of that episode.
657
00:32:50,415 --> 00:32:54,215
And there's a lot of this very procedural,
, stuff that you see, like he's trying
658
00:32:54,215 --> 00:32:58,615
to escape eventually just minor
spoilers here, but eventually they're
659
00:32:58,695 --> 00:33:00,425
after him for this potential crime.
660
00:33:00,695 --> 00:33:04,705
And you see him trying to get from one
hotel to the other without being a raising
661
00:33:04,705 --> 00:33:07,475
any alarms, but then the phone rings
and then there's someone at the door and
662
00:33:07,625 --> 00:33:11,905
you see like in my new detail, just how
difficult that is for him to just try to
663
00:33:12,190 --> 00:33:18,220
Escape circumstance for the moment , so
it is very interesting to see that aspect
664
00:33:18,220 --> 00:33:22,730
of the of the series and it gets more
and more into that as the show goes on.
665
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:23,420
So I do recommend it.
666
00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:28,010
In that regard, but I have some
big question marks about some of
667
00:33:28,010 --> 00:33:32,160
the decisions in the adaptation
itself, like the black and white.
668
00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:34,730
I think it's absolutely
stunningly beautiful.
669
00:33:34,890 --> 00:33:40,290
I'm not sure if it adds to what the
show is trying to say, potentially.
670
00:33:40,665 --> 00:33:43,165
But the big thing for me is
the age of these characters.
671
00:33:43,195 --> 00:33:47,185
, in my mind, in reading the book
and obviously seeing the 99 version
672
00:33:47,215 --> 00:33:49,835
of the film, these people are
supposed to be like in their 20s.
673
00:33:49,845 --> 00:33:52,615
These are people who are
like lost after college.
674
00:33:53,155 --> 00:33:54,965
, and that's my, another
question I have for you.
675
00:33:55,255 --> 00:33:58,105
Are we supposed to believe these
people are younger than they are?
676
00:33:58,105 --> 00:34:00,525
Because these actors are
nowhere near 25 years old.
677
00:34:00,535 --> 00:34:01,125
That's what I want to,
678
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:04,800
, RipleySona: that's a good question.
679
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:09,130
I think we're supposed to believe
they're in their early 30s.
680
00:34:09,720 --> 00:34:10,800
That's the sense I get.
681
00:34:11,175 --> 00:34:16,590
Victor: but I mean, I think
Andrew Scott is 45, 47.
682
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,280
RipleySona: did look older in the 1940s.
683
00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:19,700
Victor: is true.
684
00:34:19,870 --> 00:34:20,450
This is true.
685
00:34:21,795 --> 00:34:25,615
, RipleySona: like you always see those
memes about like , whatever actor was
686
00:34:25,665 --> 00:34:29,375
40 years old when you film this movie
and it's like somebody from Cocoon or
687
00:34:29,375 --> 00:34:30,555
something, you know, like, I don't know.
688
00:34:30,855 --> 00:34:34,315
, that's a very specific reference, but
I think you know what I, what I mean.
689
00:34:34,795 --> 00:34:38,515
Like the Golden Girls are my age now,
or, you know, something like that.
690
00:34:38,855 --> 00:34:43,295
So I don't know, I think maybe
believable as a period piece
691
00:34:43,785 --> 00:34:44,975
that they're in their early
692
00:34:45,330 --> 00:34:45,670
Victor: That's it.
693
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:45,960
That's it.
694
00:34:45,970 --> 00:34:46,910
That's how they've aged.
695
00:34:47,620 --> 00:34:47,910
RipleySona: Yes.
696
00:34:48,650 --> 00:34:49,930
Smoking, drinking.
697
00:34:49,930 --> 00:34:51,230
I don't know.
698
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:52,220
No sunscreen.
699
00:34:53,910 --> 00:34:54,230
Victor: Okay.
700
00:34:54,270 --> 00:34:58,640
I've been avoiding any explicit spoilers
until now, but we're going to spoil.
701
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,110
I'm going to ask Sona directly
questions about the plot in
702
00:35:01,110 --> 00:35:02,470
the first three episodes.
703
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,190
, I don't know if you want to
just do a general recommendation
704
00:35:04,190 --> 00:35:05,770
before we get into any spoilers.
705
00:35:06,450 --> 00:35:09,960
RipleySona: No, I mean, so far I'm
enjoying it, but I'm only three
706
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,760
episodes in, so it's hard to say.
707
00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:13,720
But it, , I have stayed awake.
708
00:35:13,780 --> 00:35:15,140
It is holding my interest.
709
00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:17,670
And, uh, and I like it.
710
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:23,420
I'm interested to see how after
this really critical, key event in
711
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:25,370
episode three, what develops next.
712
00:35:25,785 --> 00:35:27,605
Victor: So you're committed
to finish it, do you think?
713
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,120
RipleySona: I think so.
714
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,910
Victor: And before we get into any
kind of spoilers, I also recommend
715
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:34,020
do check out through episode three.
716
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,980
, you may be intrigued by the first couple
episodes as to like what direction
717
00:35:36,980 --> 00:35:40,470
the show's going in, but I think if
you haven't made it to episode three,
718
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:44,470
there's a, there's key moment in
episode three, a key event probably
719
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:46,680
is make or break for whether you want
to watch the rest of the show or not.
720
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,130
So give it the first three episodes.
721
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:50,950
, if you're in on that, then you're
going to enjoy the rest of the show.
722
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:53,830
I think if you're not interested
at that point, I don't think you're
723
00:35:53,830 --> 00:35:55,010
going to suddenly get into the show.
724
00:35:55,050 --> 00:35:56,630
, use that as your own, , barometer there.
725
00:35:57,070 --> 00:35:57,340
Okay.
726
00:35:57,350 --> 00:36:00,180
So now I'm going to get into specific
questions and spoilers for you.
727
00:36:00,310 --> 00:36:04,010
The first thing I want to bring up is once
again, going to the age of the actors,
728
00:36:04,090 --> 00:36:07,230
I think it's weird to have aged them up.
729
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:09,350
The book takes place in the mid fifties.
730
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:13,910
This in the title card is 1961 and
then they flashback six months.
731
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:17,740
So it's either the beginning
of 61 or maybe even still 1960.
732
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:19,980
So still in the general.
733
00:36:20,405 --> 00:36:23,035
range of time from the original book.
734
00:36:23,295 --> 00:36:27,585
And think about Europe in the
late fifties, 1960, et cetera,
735
00:36:27,635 --> 00:36:28,685
especially Italy, right?
736
00:36:28,995 --> 00:36:35,075
Italy lost World War II,
signed the truce in 1947, right?
737
00:36:35,295 --> 00:36:37,075
So when the book is written,
it's eight years later.
738
00:36:37,255 --> 00:36:40,655
That's something very important
to the context of the book,
739
00:36:40,895 --> 00:36:44,035
.
The U S economy has boomed,
especially in shipping, right?
740
00:36:44,035 --> 00:36:45,845
They like have all the ships
have all the other ships have
741
00:36:45,845 --> 00:36:47,145
been sunk all over the world.
742
00:36:47,435 --> 00:36:50,945
So they have the only shipping
freight , and this person has
743
00:36:50,945 --> 00:36:56,475
probably become incredibly wealthy
and a 25 year old son disappointed
744
00:36:56,475 --> 00:37:00,545
as he is by his son that he wants him
to take over the shipping business.
745
00:37:00,705 --> 00:37:02,325
This is Dickie Greenleaf's father.
746
00:37:02,790 --> 00:37:06,000
I'm talking about here that
he is a 20 something year old.
747
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,400
He's graduated from college.
748
00:37:07,530 --> 00:37:11,110
He, of course, was a child during
the war, has no idea what his
749
00:37:11,110 --> 00:37:13,140
dad has gone through, has no idea
what the country has gone through.
750
00:37:13,390 --> 00:37:18,000
As many 20 something year olds I can
speak to of my nephew, who has no context
751
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,750
of what he's describing half the time,
but, , have that expectations and
752
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:23,530
they want to go and enjoy their lives.
753
00:37:23,530 --> 00:37:23,930
They're young.
754
00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:25,460
And of course, going to.
755
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:30,120
Italy, where a generation
earlier, men went to die in a war.
756
00:37:30,270 --> 00:37:34,320
And now just a decade later, they're going
there to lay about and enjoy the riches
757
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,120
of life and, , have this, , artistic
life, this Bohemian, uh, beatnik type
758
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,370
life, which was very common, by the way,
in the, in that generation, like the
759
00:37:41,370 --> 00:37:44,100
beatniks before the hippies, obviously,
like a decade earlier than that.
760
00:37:45,220 --> 00:37:46,270
So that's very important.
761
00:37:46,540 --> 00:37:50,860
Um, context, you have a 40 year old
actor in there, and let's say even 30
762
00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:53,830
something years old, this is a guy who
potentially could would have fought in
763
00:37:53,830 --> 00:37:55,550
the war eight years, 10 years earlier.
764
00:37:55,550 --> 00:38:01,220
So it's, it's strange to age these
characters up and maybe I'm putting too
765
00:38:01,220 --> 00:38:04,470
much emphasis on it, but it did confuse
me because I'm trying to think someone,
766
00:38:04,530 --> 00:38:09,700
even in their thirties would have
been intimately familiar with the war.
767
00:38:09,710 --> 00:38:12,930
And, , it just, it's a , very
different context to me to see a
768
00:38:12,930 --> 00:38:17,000
40 year old man, you know, deciding
to live this way in Europe, , just
769
00:38:17,020 --> 00:38:18,310
a decade after the war ended.
770
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:19,340
I think it's very strange.
771
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,150
Okay.
772
00:38:20,370 --> 00:38:23,150
RipleySona: Well, first of all, as you
can probably tell from my comments, I was
773
00:38:23,150 --> 00:38:24,990
convinced this took place in the 1940s.
774
00:38:25,330 --> 00:38:29,200
So I'm just processing all of that now.
775
00:38:29,410 --> 00:38:33,160
I guess I did not think about the
World War Two situation and how that
776
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,740
would impact things because history
has never really been my strong suit.
777
00:38:39,315 --> 00:38:41,835
And I feel like it has
a feel from the 1940s.
778
00:38:41,835 --> 00:38:44,625
I'm not sure I understand
this show as much knowing
779
00:38:44,625 --> 00:38:48,895
that it's with this realization
that it's being set in the 60s.
780
00:38:49,895 --> 00:38:52,705
, Victor: just to, , add to what you're
just saying that just the decision
781
00:38:52,705 --> 00:38:55,835
to make this in black and white
when this is set in 1961, right?
782
00:38:55,845 --> 00:38:56,715
, it's strange.
783
00:38:56,715 --> 00:38:58,125
, it's not like we did not have color film.
784
00:38:58,615 --> 00:38:59,105
Like once
785
00:38:59,305 --> 00:38:59,875
RipleySona: Oh, wait.
786
00:38:59,995 --> 00:39:04,215
Victor: Sans Soleil, the purple
noon is a film from 1960.
787
00:39:04,345 --> 00:39:08,145
It was released in 1960 and has
beautiful colors, like beautiful colors.
788
00:39:08,145 --> 00:39:08,915
Yes.
789
00:39:09,045 --> 00:39:09,655
.
RipleySona: It's weird.
790
00:39:09,655 --> 00:39:13,575
I remember seeing that title placard, but
I guess I didn't really process it because
791
00:39:13,585 --> 00:39:17,875
even in those New York scenes, which
by the way, also felt very 1940s to me.
792
00:39:18,135 --> 00:39:22,945
Um, I was thinking like, wow, this is a
very big African American population in
793
00:39:22,975 --> 00:39:27,955
New York City for the 1940s, which maybe
it was, I don't know the statistics.
794
00:39:27,955 --> 00:39:30,065
I kind of made a mental
note to, to look it up.
795
00:39:30,190 --> 00:39:35,080
, the way they were, , very much a part of
those opening scenes, wherever he went, it
796
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,020
was kind of like, whoa, I didn't realize
the city was that integrated that early.
797
00:39:39,050 --> 00:39:40,060
But, , that explains that.
798
00:39:41,845 --> 00:39:42,335
, , I don't know.
799
00:39:42,335 --> 00:39:43,485
What about Dakota Fanning?
800
00:39:43,495 --> 00:39:44,635
What about her age?
801
00:39:45,035 --> 00:39:47,165
Victor: I think she is younger,
but I wouldn't think it's
802
00:39:47,175 --> 00:39:49,395
uncommon for, , an older man to,
803
00:39:49,445 --> 00:39:50,015
RipleySona: Agree.
804
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:53,770
Victor: younger woman, especially
at that point in time as well.
805
00:39:54,115 --> 00:39:55,325
RipleySona: Yeah, I don't know.
806
00:39:55,325 --> 00:39:58,335
I don't know that, , the father
son relationship really makes that
807
00:39:58,335 --> 00:40:01,365
much sense either if he's older.
808
00:40:01,385 --> 00:40:03,455
Because at that point you think
your parent would have just written
809
00:40:03,455 --> 00:40:05,935
you off , if it hasn't happened
yet, it's not going to happen.
810
00:40:05,935 --> 00:40:09,555
And like, rather than, , orchestrating
this whole thing to get him to come
811
00:40:09,555 --> 00:40:12,715
back home, that seems like a weird
thing to do for someone who is,
812
00:40:12,715 --> 00:40:14,410
you know, approaching middle age.
813
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,770
Victor: That actor, by the way, who
I did not think gave a very good
814
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:19,770
performance, but I want to call out
that that is Kenneth Lonergan, the
815
00:40:19,780 --> 00:40:24,440
screen, , writer and, , playwright who
wrote, has written multiple movies and
816
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,180
plays, including Manchester by the Sea,
by the way, also directed and wrote.
817
00:40:27,540 --> 00:40:29,260
But, uh, but I do not think
he's a very good actor.
818
00:40:29,810 --> 00:40:30,620
Yes, the dad, yes.
819
00:40:30,690 --> 00:40:30,980
RipleySona: Yeah.
820
00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:31,350
Okay.
821
00:40:31,740 --> 00:40:32,720
Victor: Not a very good actor, by the way.
822
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,240
I hate to say it.
823
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:38,110
RipleySona: yeah, I feel like the story
only makes sense to me if these people
824
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,480
are in their early thirties at the oldest.
825
00:40:40,615 --> 00:40:41,105
Victor: Exactly.
826
00:40:41,105 --> 00:40:42,855
They have to be post college.
827
00:40:42,885 --> 00:40:45,435
And that's the other thing that's strange
tell me if you have a different read
828
00:40:45,435 --> 00:40:47,195
on this, but how did they even find.
829
00:40:47,610 --> 00:40:53,330
Tom, because I'll let you know something
about the book that Tom is very much
830
00:40:53,370 --> 00:40:54,870
like the Tom Ripley we see here.
831
00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:58,660
He's just running scams in New
York, but unlike this, or maybe
832
00:40:58,670 --> 00:41:00,820
it's in implicit here as well,
833
00:41:01,180 --> 00:41:02,510
he may not have even gone to college.
834
00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:03,700
We don't know anything about his bio.
835
00:41:03,700 --> 00:41:04,970
He's basically just a cipher.
836
00:41:04,970 --> 00:41:07,710
We do not know anything about
his past, , other than everything
837
00:41:07,710 --> 00:41:08,660
he says is pretty much a lie.
838
00:41:08,660 --> 00:41:11,630
So we're not certain of what is
possibly true and what is not.
839
00:41:12,060 --> 00:41:14,430
, and he ends up going to a party.
840
00:41:14,430 --> 00:41:18,740
He tries to hang on and get his way
into these upper crust parties just
841
00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:20,390
to feel like a person, I guess.
842
00:41:20,830 --> 00:41:22,120
And that's hint to that earlier on.
843
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:24,000
And he borrows a jacket.
844
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,060
And this is the same in
the book, by the way.
845
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:26,680
I mean, this is the same in the.
846
00:41:27,075 --> 00:41:30,975
film adaptation, the 99 one, that he
borrows a jacket because it's cold.
847
00:41:31,125 --> 00:41:34,965
He grabs a Princeton jacket,
which is actually Tom's jacket.
848
00:41:34,965 --> 00:41:36,915
They end up being at the same party.
849
00:41:37,335 --> 00:41:40,405
And then what happens is that the
dad eventually sees him wearing this
850
00:41:40,405 --> 00:41:45,085
jacket and assumes, Oh, My son went
to that school, graduated that year.
851
00:41:45,405 --> 00:41:46,615
So, , maybe you know him.
852
00:41:46,835 --> 00:41:48,385
And then he just says,
Oh yeah, I know him.
853
00:41:48,385 --> 00:41:48,635
Right.
854
00:41:48,835 --> 00:41:51,835
Which makes a lot of sense in that
regard that he's obviously a con man.
855
00:41:51,935 --> 00:41:53,145
He has an opportunity to go to Europe.
856
00:41:53,155 --> 00:41:53,595
Great.
857
00:41:54,015 --> 00:41:57,065
In this regard, yes, we have the same
biography that he's just as con man,
858
00:41:57,445 --> 00:42:02,025
but then he has a private investigator
locates him, which assumes that he
859
00:42:02,045 --> 00:42:04,005
does have an actual relationship with,
860
00:42:04,005 --> 00:42:05,495
RipleySona: It was very unclear.
861
00:42:05,525 --> 00:42:07,995
Victor: Isn't that very strange
and very confusing choice
862
00:42:08,285 --> 00:42:09,705
to make that detail change?
863
00:42:09,705 --> 00:42:12,405
Because it doesn't tell us,
once again, it just confuses
864
00:42:12,405 --> 00:42:13,305
the plot, I think in some ways.
865
00:42:13,725 --> 00:42:15,095
RipleySona: It was very unclear.
866
00:42:15,115 --> 00:42:19,725
And he mentions when they meet on the
beach, we met at so and so's party.
867
00:42:20,290 --> 00:42:23,940
And then, , Dickie says,
Oh, I don't remember that.
868
00:42:23,950 --> 00:42:26,850
But then when they get introduced
to Freddie, Freddie says,
869
00:42:26,860 --> 00:42:28,360
I know you from that party.
870
00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:33,630
, and it just added more confusion
for me as to like, whether he
871
00:42:33,630 --> 00:42:35,370
really was at this party or not.
872
00:42:35,450 --> 00:42:36,370
, and what's happening?
873
00:42:36,370 --> 00:42:40,820
Yeah, I think they needed just a couple
of throwaway lines of exposition there
874
00:42:40,820 --> 00:42:47,430
to establish Why the private investigator
would conclude that they knew each other.
875
00:42:47,825 --> 00:42:52,185
Victor: Yeah, especially because it's
such so well delineated in the original
876
00:42:52,215 --> 00:42:53,755
text that it's just, , serendipity.
877
00:42:53,755 --> 00:42:54,805
He borrows his jacket.
878
00:42:55,305 --> 00:42:56,475
It's a mistaken identity.
879
00:42:56,555 --> 00:43:01,215
And then of course, Freddie immediately,
, at this point in the novel and in
880
00:43:01,215 --> 00:43:05,675
the, that previous film that when
Freddie shows up, he really throws
881
00:43:05,735 --> 00:43:09,325
a wrench in the works because he's
ingratiated himself with, Dickie.
882
00:43:09,755 --> 00:43:11,875
And then, , he's like, yeah,
remember him from school?
883
00:43:11,875 --> 00:43:13,895
Because, , Tom has like,
been, Oh, I was that guy.
884
00:43:13,895 --> 00:43:14,455
Remember that guy?
885
00:43:14,455 --> 00:43:16,835
, you do that thing where you , created
memories of the person's mind.
886
00:43:17,085 --> 00:43:18,405
And Freddie's like, this is all baloney.
887
00:43:19,325 --> 00:43:22,645
So , this third party had like,
really throws a wrench in this.
888
00:43:22,795 --> 00:43:25,775
So instead of being like, no, we met at
this party and yes, they actually did.
889
00:43:26,115 --> 00:43:29,226
And not only that, that the father
would be looking at, , all the possible
890
00:43:29,226 --> 00:43:33,086
people he could send and this guy,
like, how do they even know he's in
891
00:43:33,086 --> 00:43:35,396
the same social circles?, because
they went to a party at the same
892
00:43:35,396 --> 00:43:37,116
time, like all of that seems very odd
893
00:43:37,525 --> 00:43:38,475
RipleySona: Yeah, I agree.
894
00:43:38,476 --> 00:43:38,785
I
895
00:43:39,176 --> 00:43:39,716
Victor: and confusing.
896
00:43:39,716 --> 00:43:39,856
Yeah.
897
00:43:39,906 --> 00:43:41,116
, unneedlessly confusing.
898
00:43:41,615 --> 00:43:44,215
RipleySona: mean, they did have a
throwaway line that like they had
899
00:43:44,215 --> 00:43:46,465
approached other people and not gotten any
900
00:43:46,736 --> 00:43:47,626
Victor: He's the only one.
901
00:43:47,626 --> 00:43:48,166
Yeah, exactly.
902
00:43:48,845 --> 00:43:52,695
RipleySona: but it still doesn't
explain how that came to exist.
903
00:43:53,276 --> 00:43:53,446
Victor: Yeah.
904
00:43:53,446 --> 00:43:56,356
Theoretically it would be that maybe
we are talking about the same party
905
00:43:56,406 --> 00:43:59,826
that exists in novelization and they
literally knew everybody who was
906
00:43:59,826 --> 00:44:01,186
there and started tracking them down.
907
00:44:01,546 --> 00:44:03,856
Maybe but that's a very,
that's quite a stretch.
908
00:44:04,175 --> 00:44:05,355
RipleySona: Yeah, I agree.
909
00:44:05,696 --> 00:44:09,921
Victor: This person who plays Freddie,
by the way, non binary, so they, I
910
00:44:09,921 --> 00:44:11,561
guess they use the, they pronouns.
911
00:44:11,591 --> 00:44:16,221
By the way, I don't know if you knew this,
, Stings and Trudy's one of their children.
912
00:44:16,915 --> 00:44:20,015
RipleySona: I knew that because I
just read it in a headline online
913
00:44:20,091 --> 00:44:21,311
Victor: That's the only
reason I knew as well.
914
00:44:21,575 --> 00:44:25,835
RipleySona: Yes, but I definitely see
the similarity when I knew that before
915
00:44:25,835 --> 00:44:29,505
I watched it and it was actually like
the connection to me was very clear.
916
00:44:29,891 --> 00:44:30,231
Victor: Yes.
917
00:44:30,411 --> 00:44:32,231
After the fact, I was like,
Oh yes, I see the connection.
918
00:44:33,801 --> 00:44:35,621
Not a great Freddie for me.
919
00:44:35,631 --> 00:44:36,601
I got to say, what did you think?
920
00:44:37,135 --> 00:44:38,025
RipleySona: I mean, I assume we're going
921
00:44:38,091 --> 00:44:39,281
Victor: you haven't seen enough of it yet.
922
00:44:39,291 --> 00:44:40,671
You haven't seen enough
of the character yet.
923
00:44:40,681 --> 00:44:44,831
I would say, a striking person,
obviously, but , I'm once again, maybe
924
00:44:44,911 --> 00:44:49,051
unfairly comparing it to Philip Seymour
Hoffman, who I think like steals every
925
00:44:49,051 --> 00:44:51,071
scene he's in, in the original film.
926
00:44:51,231 --> 00:44:55,461
So it's, , it's tough, , but a more
important character as the series
927
00:44:55,471 --> 00:44:58,461
progresses, obviously once, okay,
we're full spoiler territory here.
928
00:44:58,461 --> 00:45:02,505
And, , Episode three, the big thing is
that, , Tom kills, , Dickie on the boat.
929
00:45:02,755 --> 00:45:05,725
, same as in the book, same as
in the previous adaptations.
930
00:45:05,735 --> 00:45:08,555
That event is always pretty much
the same across all adaptations.
931
00:45:08,556 --> 00:45:08,935
It's
932
00:45:09,015 --> 00:45:12,335
, RipleySona: just to go back for a
second, there's something about, I'm
933
00:45:12,335 --> 00:45:16,055
still processing this being in the
1960s and how I miss that, but, , the
934
00:45:16,055 --> 00:45:20,485
feel of this movie to me, like,
everyone has a stilted delivery.
935
00:45:20,735 --> 00:45:24,765
So I didn't consider Freddie's
any more stilted than
936
00:45:24,765 --> 00:45:26,815
everybody else's line readings.
937
00:45:26,815 --> 00:45:30,405
, and while I was watching it, it was kind
of like, is that how people talked back
938
00:45:30,435 --> 00:45:32,775
then with no filler words whatsoever?
939
00:45:32,785 --> 00:45:36,625
Nobody ever says, um, or ah,
or, I mean, I know the idea of
940
00:45:36,625 --> 00:45:38,745
saying like is very recent, right?
941
00:45:38,745 --> 00:45:41,015
That, , we use that as a
filler word so often now.
942
00:45:41,395 --> 00:45:45,625
But everybody is just speaking in
the shortest possible sentences.
943
00:45:45,965 --> 00:45:48,055
And nobody interrupts each other.
944
00:45:48,055 --> 00:45:49,965
Nobody overlaps with each other.
945
00:45:49,965 --> 00:45:50,465
Nobody.
946
00:45:50,795 --> 00:45:54,265
I mean, it's just very weird to me.
947
00:45:54,315 --> 00:45:56,215
Um, yeah, right.
948
00:45:56,225 --> 00:45:58,785
In a book, it would make sense, I suppose.
949
00:45:58,825 --> 00:46:02,325
But in a movie, I mean, this is part
of the reason, you know, I'll often
950
00:46:02,675 --> 00:46:08,260
joke about my unrefined taste in
movies, and I'll say I don't want
951
00:46:08,260 --> 00:46:09,620
to watch anything set in the past.
952
00:46:10,830 --> 00:46:14,300
But part of the reason is because
they talk like this and it bothers me.
953
00:46:14,330 --> 00:46:15,870
I don't find it natural.
954
00:46:16,220 --> 00:46:18,750
Victor: Well, they're all British actors
also playing Americans, which is odd,
955
00:46:19,290 --> 00:46:21,280
RipleySona: So they're
focusing so hard on the accent.
956
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:23,290
Victor: Work on the accent so clearly.
957
00:46:25,310 --> 00:46:28,870
I do want to talk about the,
once again, a change from the
958
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:30,810
novel, which I don't understand.
959
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:33,360
It's making me ask questions
I shouldn't be asking,
960
00:46:33,380 --> 00:46:35,080
unfortunately, and it's a big one.
961
00:46:35,490 --> 00:46:42,040
Why does Dickie take Tom out on
that boat and why does he stop it
962
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,340
and have that conversation with
him in such a vulnerable point?
963
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,040
It seems so, once
964
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,550
RipleySona: How did this happen
in the Matt Damon version?
965
00:46:49,550 --> 00:46:50,300
I couldn't remember.
966
00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:52,620
This is actually, strangely,
right around where I fall asleep.
967
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:55,760
Victor: yes, that is a
weird place for you to quit.
968
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,220
It is similar to the
way it is in the book.
969
00:46:59,220 --> 00:47:00,990
So in the book, let me
just go back to that.
970
00:47:01,230 --> 00:47:05,110
In the book Dickie has a tendency
to fall in love with his friends
971
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:10,130
and he's very strange change here,
by the way, I feel that let me
972
00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:11,710
just focus on this one performance.
973
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,050
I think that Johnny Flynn's performance
as Dickie doesn't work for me.
974
00:47:15,050 --> 00:47:19,710
I think it's a big problem with the
film because unlike for me, the Jude Law
975
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:22,310
character and, , I'm not a huge fan of
976
00:47:23,435 --> 00:47:24,235
,
RipleySona: Gwyneth Paltrow.
977
00:47:24,250 --> 00:47:27,700
Victor: when the Paltrow, , in general,
but I really do like her in that.
978
00:47:28,145 --> 00:47:33,635
Film and the idea that he is in this
these two people who are madly in love
979
00:47:33,635 --> 00:47:38,205
and they're like Beautifully blonde and
tanned and the the colors of that place
980
00:47:38,405 --> 00:47:41,545
You could imagine him falling in love
with the place falling in love with them
981
00:47:41,855 --> 00:47:47,795
and just being in the sun and warmth of
these Beautiful people he's so pale in
982
00:47:47,795 --> 00:47:50,845
that movie as well although he you know
gets tanned over the course of the film
983
00:47:50,845 --> 00:47:54,805
obviously, but It's , this contrast to
who he is and how he's attracted to that.
984
00:47:55,085 --> 00:47:58,775
And then all of a sudden he starts
feeling that this son, this, that he's
985
00:47:58,785 --> 00:48:03,355
getting from the Jude law Jude law
character, Dickie is, um, is fading.
986
00:48:03,355 --> 00:48:06,295
Like he's kind of losing interest
in him, which is a pattern he
987
00:48:06,295 --> 00:48:07,935
finds out from other people.
988
00:48:08,075 --> 00:48:08,595
Well, yeah.
989
00:48:08,595 --> 00:48:12,145
Once he gets bored with you, he kind
of moves on to the next person and
990
00:48:12,145 --> 00:48:13,555
he's feeling that that's happening.
991
00:48:13,825 --> 00:48:14,095
And.
992
00:48:14,505 --> 00:48:15,625
He's going to get cut off.
993
00:48:15,685 --> 00:48:17,235
They're basically going on this trip.
994
00:48:17,525 --> 00:48:21,405
And this is for them to have like a
one last trip together and have a blast.
995
00:48:21,445 --> 00:48:24,285
Same thing in the book, by the way,
but during the trip, he's going to
996
00:48:24,355 --> 00:48:27,905
give them the bad news that you know
what he really you're too clingy.
997
00:48:27,925 --> 00:48:30,115
And I just don't want this anymore.
998
00:48:30,125 --> 00:48:30,455
Right.
999
00:48:30,905 --> 00:48:33,805
And it's kind of like breaking
up with a friend on that trip.
1000
00:48:34,175 --> 00:48:35,105
And that's the plan.
1001
00:48:35,105 --> 00:48:35,985
And he, uh, yeah.
1002
00:48:36,455 --> 00:48:40,055
And , there's some differences between
the book as far as March March in the
1003
00:48:40,055 --> 00:48:45,915
book very much like this doesn't like Tom
at all in the movie, uh, Gwyneth Paltrow
1004
00:48:45,945 --> 00:48:50,775
actually very sympathetic to Tom and it's
like break his don't break his heart.
1005
00:48:50,775 --> 00:48:51,735
Don't be too hard on him.
1006
00:48:51,785 --> 00:48:53,325
They've actually become
very close in a way.
1007
00:48:53,325 --> 00:48:57,955
They even remain close after the murder,
uh, as opposed to in the book where Marge
1008
00:48:57,955 --> 00:48:59,035
is just like, I don't like that guy.
1009
00:48:59,635 --> 00:49:00,915
Get rid of as soon as possible.
1010
00:49:00,915 --> 00:49:04,145
Right, which is more like what
we saw in the in this adaptation.
1011
00:49:04,145 --> 00:49:04,225
Yeah.
1012
00:49:05,220 --> 00:49:07,930
But all that is to say that it is
that he knows that he's going to
1013
00:49:07,940 --> 00:49:10,820
basically be dumped and that he's
going to lose this lifestyle because
1014
00:49:10,950 --> 00:49:12,050
he doesn't have his own money.
1015
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:15,120
It's just Dickie splurging on
him and he starts to think, what
1016
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,050
if I just take over his life?
1017
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:21,010
, I do not want to go back to being
this miserable rat in New York City
1018
00:49:21,330 --> 00:49:22,580
and, , and he decides to kill him.
1019
00:49:23,084 --> 00:49:24,534
There's also definitely sexual tension.
1020
00:49:24,574 --> 00:49:26,814
I want to talk about that because
it's different in these different
1021
00:49:26,814 --> 00:49:33,694
adaptations, but there's some overt or
subversive sexual jealousy there as well.
1022
00:49:34,074 --> 00:49:39,699
But he decides the only way to keep things
going is to take over, imitate Dickie.
1023
00:49:40,029 --> 00:49:41,119
Which he's already started to do.
1024
00:49:41,129 --> 00:49:44,049
That happens in the book as well when he
like dresses like him, starts imitating
1025
00:49:44,049 --> 00:49:45,714
his voice and he catches him doing it.
1026
00:49:45,714 --> 00:49:47,829
It happens in all the
adaptations once again.
1027
00:49:48,009 --> 00:49:50,259
So all of that also
creeps out Dickie as well.
1028
00:49:50,639 --> 00:49:54,099
So he starts to see himself
in the role of imitating him.
1029
00:49:54,439 --> 00:49:55,389
I think he could do it better.
1030
00:49:55,779 --> 00:49:58,619
And it's pretty cold blooded in the film.
1031
00:49:58,619 --> 00:50:01,409
They try to make Tom more
sympathetic across the board.
1032
00:50:01,779 --> 00:50:05,959
And in that case, Dickie actually
is insulting him is mocking him as
1033
00:50:05,959 --> 00:50:07,109
saying, you know, you're such a loser.
1034
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:10,509
You're such a hanger on, but
you see how people treat you
1035
00:50:10,739 --> 00:50:13,714
.
He's basically overtly bullying him.
1036
00:50:13,864 --> 00:50:16,824
and telling him that, and he already
knows that he's getting sick of him.
1037
00:50:17,024 --> 00:50:22,004
Same basic rationalization, but he is
physically slapping him in the boat
1038
00:50:22,024 --> 00:50:23,284
being like, why don't you fight back?
1039
00:50:23,304 --> 00:50:24,164
Why don't you do something?
1040
00:50:24,164 --> 00:50:25,364
So he's really like goading him.
1041
00:50:25,754 --> 00:50:27,964
And then he hits him with
the oar the first time.
1042
00:50:28,384 --> 00:50:30,734
And it's a great sequence, by
the way, hits him with the oar.
1043
00:50:31,064 --> 00:50:33,184
And then you see Jude Law just
turns around and looks at him.
1044
00:50:33,524 --> 00:50:36,814
And then all of a sudden just blood
starts pouring from the scalp.
1045
00:50:37,274 --> 00:50:38,914
And at first you don't even
think he's hit him that hard.
1046
00:50:38,934 --> 00:50:40,464
And it's, it's a really shocking moment.
1047
00:50:40,464 --> 00:50:41,154
It's really well done.
1048
00:50:41,384 --> 00:50:44,454
And then of course he just, uh, he
actually gets assaulted by Jude Law.
1049
00:50:44,454 --> 00:50:46,634
He starts fighting him in the
boat and then he just keeps
1050
00:50:46,634 --> 00:50:47,754
beating him until he kills him.
1051
00:50:47,924 --> 00:50:50,704
But it's almost like an accidental
or even self defense at the end.
1052
00:50:50,934 --> 00:50:53,704
Potentially you could read
it as self defense when Jude
1053
00:50:53,704 --> 00:50:54,849
Law starts to attack him.
1054
00:50:55,214 --> 00:50:59,184
RipleySona: So, but your question
is the same then for any version of
1055
00:50:59,184 --> 00:51:02,494
this, why are they out on this boat
alone or is it just in this version?
1056
00:51:02,769 --> 00:51:06,529
Victor: well, it's Dickies wants
to take him out on this, , boat
1057
00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:08,899
and then they start getting
into, in one case, an argument.
1058
00:51:08,899 --> 00:51:10,459
The other one is completely premeditated.
1059
00:51:10,469 --> 00:51:13,499
What's strange about this
one, I'd say specifically is
1060
00:51:13,499 --> 00:51:15,189
that he takes the boat, right?
1061
00:51:15,189 --> 00:51:18,819
And it is Dickie's choice, basically,
although I think maybe Tom suggested
1062
00:51:18,819 --> 00:51:21,349
here, I forget exactly the details,
but they go out on this boat
1063
00:51:21,349 --> 00:51:23,574
together and then he stops the boat.
1064
00:51:23,914 --> 00:51:26,494
And he reads the letter from his
dad, which is not in the original
1065
00:51:26,574 --> 00:51:29,744
versions, by the way, the dad
is not the one who's on to Tom.
1066
00:51:30,194 --> 00:51:32,594
So he stops there to like, say,
this is what my dad told me.
1067
00:51:32,644 --> 00:51:33,524
Let me read this to you.
1068
00:51:33,594 --> 00:51:35,534
And then he has this whole thing
in the middle of the ocean being
1069
00:51:35,534 --> 00:51:37,104
like, so I'm cutting you off.
1070
00:51:37,124 --> 00:51:41,094
And I'm telling you now, once
again, the plan with the previous
1071
00:51:41,094 --> 00:51:43,804
version was that they're going
to have a guy's weekend away.
1072
00:51:44,219 --> 00:51:46,849
And he's going to break the bad
news to him over the course of that.
1073
00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:48,759
And Tom just happens
to know ahead of time.
1074
00:51:48,849 --> 00:51:50,709
. So that's relatively
the same across these.
1075
00:51:51,839 --> 00:51:54,999
I'm just talking about the logistics
of the moment of being , I know
1076
00:51:54,999 --> 00:51:57,029
this guy's going to get , really
upset when I give him this news.
1077
00:51:57,159 --> 00:52:00,419
So I'm going to take the boat into
middle of nowhere, cut the engine
1078
00:52:00,629 --> 00:52:02,029
and have this conversation with him.
1079
00:52:02,209 --> 00:52:04,129
I'm just talking about
that moment, the decision.
1080
00:52:04,189 --> 00:52:05,899
It just makes no sense to me at all.
1081
00:52:05,899 --> 00:52:08,429
It's just a really,
it's so stagy basically.
1082
00:52:09,084 --> 00:52:12,614
RipleySona: The only thing that I
could think of is, , there's some
1083
00:52:12,764 --> 00:52:16,574
comment and I can't remember the
context of it about how he's afraid
1084
00:52:16,574 --> 00:52:19,234
of water and he's not a good swimmer.
1085
00:52:19,254 --> 00:52:20,834
And, , do you remember that?
1086
00:52:21,069 --> 00:52:21,469
Victor: Yes.
1087
00:52:22,154 --> 00:52:24,324
RipleySona: And I, I
didn't know if it was true
1088
00:52:24,344 --> 00:52:25,294
Victor: I don't know if it's true.
1089
00:52:25,334 --> 00:52:25,734
I agree.
1090
00:52:25,794 --> 00:52:27,254
, RipleySona: he said that he told him that.
1091
00:52:27,604 --> 00:52:28,244
Assume he did.
1092
00:52:28,574 --> 00:52:33,804
But, um, I don't know that maybe he would
feel more vulnerable in the ocean, but
1093
00:52:33,804 --> 00:52:37,654
then I questioned, given what happens with
the boat after that, I questioned whether
1094
00:52:37,994 --> 00:52:42,764
any of it is true because he did fine
considering ridiculous circumstances that
1095
00:52:42,774 --> 00:52:44,404
almost seem like slapstick comedy to me.
1096
00:52:44,684 --> 00:52:50,494
So, , maybe trying to capitalize on making
him uncomfortable by being in the water.
1097
00:52:51,034 --> 00:52:51,494
Victor: You know what?
1098
00:52:52,014 --> 00:52:54,134
This is my read on it in the moment.
1099
00:52:54,184 --> 00:52:56,624
And then I forgot this, but
now I'm circled back to it by
1100
00:52:56,624 --> 00:52:57,604
the time we get to the end.
1101
00:52:58,044 --> 00:53:01,414
Honestly, when I watched this the
first time and he pulls out that letter
1102
00:53:02,044 --> 00:53:03,254
because I knew it was going to happen.
1103
00:53:03,254 --> 00:53:06,544
Obviously I've read, I've read and
seen multiple versions of this story.
1104
00:53:06,954 --> 00:53:13,249
And also because unlike other versions
of Dickie, he's this, Johnny Flynn is
1105
00:53:13,259 --> 00:53:15,989
not playing him as this charismatic guy.
1106
00:53:15,989 --> 00:53:19,139
He's playing him as a depressive
who's not good at anything
1107
00:53:19,139 --> 00:53:20,099
he's trying to be good at.
1108
00:53:20,479 --> 00:53:23,279
And people start reading that maybe
he's suicidal, which by the way, is
1109
00:53:23,289 --> 00:53:26,919
the same kind of rationale that plays
out in the other adaptations as well.
1110
00:53:27,279 --> 00:53:30,039
But I started to think , maybe
that's not Tom making that up.
1111
00:53:30,249 --> 00:53:31,649
Maybe this guy is suicidal.
1112
00:53:31,649 --> 00:53:34,889
I actually thought that because I
just felt like he seemed depressed.
1113
00:53:34,889 --> 00:53:37,959
And of course the tone of the
show, the show itself is a
1114
00:53:37,959 --> 00:53:39,039
little depressed to be honest.
1115
00:53:40,059 --> 00:53:43,299
And then when he stops it and he like
basically goads Tom with the letter,
1116
00:53:43,359 --> 00:53:47,009
I honestly was watching this stuff
going , does he want Tom to kill him?
1117
00:53:48,329 --> 00:53:52,349
And now I'm not sure I was wrong
in that read at that moment, right?
1118
00:53:52,349 --> 00:53:52,689
Because
1119
00:53:52,864 --> 00:53:53,244
RipleySona: Mm hmm.
1120
00:53:53,349 --> 00:53:56,379
, Victor: If you're going to break
the bad news to somebody, do you,
1121
00:53:57,399 --> 00:54:00,069
especially if you think maybe they're
erratic, he doesn't seem to believe
1122
00:54:00,069 --> 00:54:02,069
that, but March has been wary of him.
1123
00:54:02,069 --> 00:54:05,319
And once again, I'm bringing the
context of the other adaptations
1124
00:54:05,529 --> 00:54:08,999
where in the book, for example, March
specifically says he's dangerous.
1125
00:54:09,029 --> 00:54:09,589
Be careful
1126
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:10,249
RipleySona: hmm.
1127
00:54:10,249 --> 00:54:10,469
Mm
1128
00:54:10,629 --> 00:54:11,634
Victor: I'm bringing all that to you.
1129
00:54:11,794 --> 00:54:15,454
, in with my read to this as
well, but would you put yourself
1130
00:54:15,454 --> 00:54:16,274
out in the middle of nowhere?
1131
00:54:17,354 --> 00:54:19,694
and is that where you
decide to break the news?
1132
00:54:19,744 --> 00:54:20,374
I don't know.
1133
00:54:20,394 --> 00:54:23,484
That's that seems a little odd
to me, unless it was intentional.
1134
00:54:23,534 --> 00:54:25,104
Maybe he truly was depressed.
1135
00:54:25,144 --> 00:54:29,254
And, , some of what, , is, , said
about him after the fact is maybe true.
1136
00:54:30,159 --> 00:54:33,939
, RipleySona: I was questioning it as
well, which is why I went to that idea
1137
00:54:33,949 --> 00:54:37,399
of him being scared of water and being
a bad swimmer that maybe he thought
1138
00:54:37,399 --> 00:54:39,629
somehow it was going to give him
the upper hand because that was the
1139
00:54:39,629 --> 00:54:40,869
only way I could make it make sense.
1140
00:54:41,699 --> 00:54:45,859
Victor: It's an very odd choice, you can
just wait until you make it to the island.
1141
00:54:45,859 --> 00:54:49,359
Like there, there's no reason,
there's no, there's no rush in
1142
00:54:49,359 --> 00:54:50,709
breaking out that letter on the boat.
1143
00:54:51,539 --> 00:54:54,909
Yeah, it's like giving him
a perfect moment to act.
1144
00:54:55,009 --> 00:54:55,909
RipleySona: Yes, I agree.
1145
00:54:56,244 --> 00:54:59,744
Victor: I do like very much though,
in this moment, and we see it
1146
00:54:59,744 --> 00:55:01,154
throughout the rest of the book.
1147
00:55:01,504 --> 00:55:05,074
film, how it really goes into the
nitty gritty of how hard it is to do
1148
00:55:05,074 --> 00:55:08,554
some of these things that we take for
granted in your traditional Matlock
1149
00:55:08,574 --> 00:55:11,474
episode or something, where everything
is neatly resolved in 15 minutes.
1150
00:55:11,884 --> 00:55:13,774
It's that killing this
guy is really hard, right?
1151
00:55:13,774 --> 00:55:15,734
He can't even get the anchor removed.
1152
00:55:15,744 --> 00:55:17,874
He has to burn part of the
boat to get the anchor off.
1153
00:55:18,234 --> 00:55:22,334
And then he, , tries to, , , sink him and
then he accidentally knocks himself out
1154
00:55:22,334 --> 00:55:26,174
of the boat and then he gets back smashed
in the back of the head by the anchor.
1155
00:55:26,174 --> 00:55:29,074
And it's just like one disaster
after another, which is
1156
00:55:29,134 --> 00:55:30,904
also comedic in its own way.
1157
00:55:30,904 --> 00:55:31,034
And
1158
00:55:31,259 --> 00:55:32,419
RipleySona: I laughed out loud.
1159
00:55:32,634 --> 00:55:33,784
Victor: there is a lot of comedy.
1160
00:55:34,074 --> 00:55:36,944
, I think there's a lot of very
subtle comedy in this as well.
1161
00:55:37,164 --> 00:55:39,494
I love everyone's reaction
to seeing Dickie's art.
1162
00:55:40,154 --> 00:55:40,954
It's always great.
1163
00:55:45,094 --> 00:55:47,904
Wait till you see this investigator in
the next episode, the investigator who
1164
00:55:47,904 --> 00:55:51,754
starts who's a big, once again, a big
character in all of the adaptations.
1165
00:55:52,144 --> 00:55:55,084
There's this cat and mouse
between Tom and this, uh, Italian
1166
00:55:55,084 --> 00:55:56,464
investigator who's pursuing him.
1167
00:55:56,864 --> 00:55:58,934
And he also goes to
interview all the suspects.
1168
00:55:58,934 --> 00:56:02,394
And every time he encounters,
, , Dickie's artwork, it's very funny.
1169
00:56:02,724 --> 00:56:05,554
And, uh, I love when he talks to Marge and
Marge goes, well, you know, he was here to
1170
00:56:05,554 --> 00:56:07,744
do some art and he's like, yes, his art.
1171
00:56:10,364 --> 00:56:10,804
It's great.
1172
00:56:10,824 --> 00:56:12,664
Every time they refer to
his art is really funny.
1173
00:56:13,064 --> 00:56:16,324
I like how Tom can't really hide
his disdain for neither, , the bad
1174
00:56:16,334 --> 00:56:18,054
artwork or for, Marge's writing.
1175
00:56:18,484 --> 00:56:20,814
Yeah, and then you see even
beyond that, you see him trying
1176
00:56:20,814 --> 00:56:21,914
to dispose of the boat, right?
1177
00:56:21,984 --> 00:56:23,014
Very badly, by the way.
1178
00:56:23,084 --> 00:56:26,984
I do like this, oftentimes in these shows,
the killers are somehow super adept at
1179
00:56:27,374 --> 00:56:28,964
cleaning up after themselves or whatever.
1180
00:56:29,384 --> 00:56:31,654
And, , in this regard, you
see how he , sinks the boat.
1181
00:56:31,654 --> 00:56:34,189
He, he doesn't even sink it
enough to, you know, hide , , the
1182
00:56:34,189 --> 00:56:35,329
motor, the top of the motor.
1183
00:56:35,389 --> 00:56:39,079
But not only that, if you've been to
the, these waters around Italy, anybody
1184
00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:40,579
on the cliff can see a submerged boat.
1185
00:56:41,059 --> 00:56:42,679
you can see straight through
to the bottom of the, the
1186
00:56:44,109 --> 00:56:46,739
RipleySona: Yeah, it was like,
weren't you paying attention to what
1187
00:56:46,749 --> 00:56:48,449
happened with the fire the first time?
1188
00:56:48,459 --> 00:56:53,099
Like, when you didn't set the entire
boat on fire the first time, there is
1189
00:56:53,099 --> 00:56:56,919
no reason for you to believe you would
have a different result 10 minutes later.
1190
00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:59,939
I mean, yes, a little bit more gasoline
or whatever, maybe you're not thinking
1191
00:56:59,939 --> 00:57:04,249
clearly in those circumstances, I
felt like I was a little bit unclear
1192
00:57:04,249 --> 00:57:06,719
whether it was supposed to be
intentionally comedic or not, but I
1193
00:57:06,739 --> 00:57:08,209
did find it very funny, all of it.
1194
00:57:08,584 --> 00:57:10,924
Victor: Oh no, I very much think it's
supposed to be intentionally like
1195
00:57:10,934 --> 00:57:12,104
watching movies or something, right?
1196
00:57:12,124 --> 00:57:12,934
Oh, that's all you have to do.
1197
00:57:12,934 --> 00:57:14,474
And it's just like,
that's not how boats work.
1198
00:57:14,474 --> 00:57:17,164
These, these boats have been around
for, you know, decades, not going to
1199
00:57:17,164 --> 00:57:18,834
just catch up like, uh, like Tinder.
1200
00:57:19,214 --> 00:57:23,334
So now I think we've pretty much
covered the most pressing things that
1201
00:57:23,354 --> 00:57:24,954
happened in those first three episodes.
1202
00:57:25,479 --> 00:57:27,269
RipleySona: I'm looking
forward to see how it develops.
1203
00:57:27,269 --> 00:57:30,809
I'm looking forward to visually
see, because this is a beautiful
1204
00:57:30,839 --> 00:57:33,229
show, , exactly what they do.
1205
00:57:33,289 --> 00:57:35,979
, especially because now we've really
reached a part where I have no
1206
00:57:35,979 --> 00:57:37,799
familiarity with the storyline any longer.
1207
00:57:37,799 --> 00:57:40,699
We've exhausted the point to
which I was able to stay awake.
1208
00:57:41,019 --> 00:57:43,139
, so yeah, it's going to
be a new story for me.
1209
00:57:43,199 --> 00:57:44,449
I'm interested in it.
1210
00:57:44,579 --> 00:57:48,819
And I think you had mentioned maybe
watching it at a slightly faster
1211
00:57:48,819 --> 00:57:50,119
speed, so I might look into that.
1212
00:57:50,799 --> 00:57:55,249
Victor: Yes, I watched most of
these episodes at one and a quarter
1213
00:57:55,249 --> 00:57:58,739
speed full disclosure, , after
maybe the third episode, I think I
1214
00:57:58,739 --> 00:58:02,239
probably watched most of them, uh,
at one and a third quarter speed.
1215
00:58:02,239 --> 00:58:04,319
Unless I forgot to turn it back
on again, by the way, there were
1216
00:58:04,319 --> 00:58:07,519
definitely sections I watched at
normal speed, but I will tell you.
1217
00:58:07,859 --> 00:58:12,679
That oftentimes when I forgot or enabled
the one and a quarter speed and disabled
1218
00:58:12,679 --> 00:58:14,769
it, I really couldn't tell the difference.
1219
00:58:15,369 --> 00:58:18,199
So, if you decide to do the same thing,
or if you do that pretty regularly,
1220
00:58:18,329 --> 00:58:21,659
this is a show you really won't notice
you're going at one and a quarter speed.
1221
00:58:22,864 --> 00:58:23,804
And the visuals.
1222
00:58:23,804 --> 00:58:25,894
Yes, they'll, you're
going to see them in Rome.
1223
00:58:25,944 --> 00:58:29,564
, you're going to see different locales,
beautifully shot at most of these on
1224
00:58:29,564 --> 00:58:33,344
location in this incredible black and
white, just some of the architecture.
1225
00:58:33,344 --> 00:58:35,094
, I really want to travel
to some of these locales.
1226
00:58:35,094 --> 00:58:37,174
It's just stunning to see where they go.
1227
00:58:37,334 --> 00:58:43,174
Oh, one thing I did want to touch on
is the sexuality aspect to this series,
1228
00:58:43,244 --> 00:58:47,054
which I guess I won't talk too much in
detail here because it does spoil some
1229
00:58:47,054 --> 00:58:51,114
things later on, but just to say that it's
interesting that . The sexuality of the
1230
00:58:51,114 --> 00:58:57,454
characters is in all of the adaptations to
some extent, even in that 1960 adaptation,
1231
00:58:57,454 --> 00:59:03,014
although it's more subversive, which also
is the case for the book written in 1955.
1232
00:59:03,244 --> 00:59:08,089
But Patricia Highsmith was a lesbian and
she If anything associated herself with
1233
00:59:08,089 --> 00:59:11,029
the character Tom, as a matter of fact, a
little creepy here, but not only did she
1234
00:59:11,029 --> 00:59:15,269
stalk somebody, she has thousands of pages
in the diary and she talks about stalking
1235
00:59:15,269 --> 00:59:19,639
someone and describing, fantasizing
about killing them and thinking of it
1236
00:59:19,679 --> 00:59:24,569
as a form of lovemaking, by the way, so
mentally ill woman, apparently, but she,
1237
00:59:24,609 --> 00:59:27,729
, also, , Signed her personal letters, Tom.
1238
00:59:28,069 --> 00:59:31,319
So , if you had any question who
she associates herself to in these
1239
00:59:31,599 --> 00:59:35,579
characters, uh, Ripley is definitely
her surrogate in these stories.
1240
00:59:35,894 --> 00:59:38,734
, so obviously she dealt, , with
some of these, , questions
1241
00:59:38,734 --> 00:59:40,924
of her own sexuality as well.
1242
00:59:41,234 --> 00:59:45,274
So that is a definitely subtext
in the original book, nothing
1243
00:59:45,334 --> 00:59:49,214
overt, but definitely more overt
in every one of these adaptations.
1244
00:59:49,664 --> 00:59:51,054
So interesting that they added it.
1245
00:59:51,334 --> 00:59:54,934
I don't know if being overt about some of
these things makes it more interesting.
1246
00:59:54,934 --> 00:59:57,854
I think leaving it more subversive
is more interesting to me personally.
1247
00:59:58,264 --> 01:00:02,134
, but it is interesting that they make
this a key point in the plot, multiple
1248
01:00:02,134 --> 01:00:05,704
times I don't know if you want to go
back, circle back to that point about
1249
01:00:06,054 --> 01:00:08,334
the possible attraction between Tom and
1250
01:00:09,334 --> 01:00:12,604
RipleySona: There is that one
really funny time that he, I can't
1251
01:00:12,604 --> 01:00:16,164
remember the context, but, , Tom
says, I like girls in the
1252
01:00:16,379 --> 01:00:16,569
Victor: yes,
1253
01:00:18,094 --> 01:00:20,174
RipleySona: unconvincing way possible.
1254
01:00:20,249 --> 01:00:23,039
Victor: it was like the taxi scam,
the taxi scam, that was hilarious.
1255
01:00:23,039 --> 01:00:26,029
By the way, the girl is literally
two feet away from the taxi.
1256
01:00:26,029 --> 01:00:26,429
It's very,
1257
01:00:26,464 --> 01:00:27,024
RipleySona: Yes.
1258
01:00:27,654 --> 01:00:31,984
So, I mean, I think it's, it's
interesting and it is something that
1259
01:00:32,324 --> 01:00:37,544
whether we're the 1940s or in fact
reality is the 1960s, I think is
1260
01:00:37,544 --> 01:00:44,254
very true to that time of discomfort
with any kind of open discussion of
1261
01:00:44,254 --> 01:00:46,614
that, even when it is known to exist.
1262
01:00:46,664 --> 01:00:51,274
I also liked on the, the beach, , where
the guys are making the pyramid , and
1263
01:00:51,274 --> 01:00:54,984
he, Dickie explains, , these are
gay guys and he goes, so what?
1264
01:00:54,984 --> 01:00:55,954
It's still impressive.
1265
01:00:55,989 --> 01:00:56,939
Victor: It's impressive.
1266
01:00:57,859 --> 01:00:58,419
Exactly.
1267
01:01:00,214 --> 01:01:04,794
RipleySona: I think it's an interesting,
, Narrative thing that's going on there
1268
01:01:04,794 --> 01:01:07,534
that, , feels very true to that period.
1269
01:01:07,859 --> 01:01:10,199
Victor: You'll see even more of it as
you go through the series, but there
1270
01:01:10,199 --> 01:01:11,719
are multiple times when there's there.
1271
01:01:11,759 --> 01:01:16,339
It's implied once again, not from
the original text, but very much here
1272
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:19,659
that one of the reasons that Dickey
might be on the lamb and might have
1273
01:01:20,039 --> 01:01:24,149
become suicidal over time might be
Him dealing with his sexuality, there
1274
01:01:24,149 --> 01:01:25,879
are times when they never say it.
1275
01:01:25,929 --> 01:01:29,799
They just go like, because you know, what
they said about him, you know, just like
1276
01:01:29,979 --> 01:01:34,489
this is implied that the, you know, means
something that is never overtly said.
1277
01:01:34,489 --> 01:01:36,309
Cause it's just something
that's never spoken of.
1278
01:01:36,724 --> 01:01:39,824
Yeah, and maybe we'll touch base again
when you see the rest of the show.
1279
01:01:39,824 --> 01:01:43,594
And a couple more things I wanted to
mention before we wrap up , , another
1280
01:01:43,594 --> 01:01:46,324
reason, , that people may be
interested in , , seeing this Ripley
1281
01:01:46,644 --> 01:01:50,204
show, which is popular by the way,
and getting good audience scores,
1282
01:01:50,224 --> 01:01:51,404
I thought audiences might.
1283
01:01:51,674 --> 01:01:52,264
Dislike it.
1284
01:01:52,264 --> 01:01:53,634
The critic scores are pretty high.
1285
01:01:53,774 --> 01:01:54,814
Audience scores are pretty high.
1286
01:01:54,814 --> 01:01:55,794
A little surprised by that.
1287
01:01:55,794 --> 01:01:58,964
I thought people might lose their
patience with a show that's so
1288
01:01:59,364 --> 01:02:00,564
deliberately paced, let's say.
1289
01:02:00,964 --> 01:02:02,784
But, , also, , Saltburn.
1290
01:02:02,784 --> 01:02:07,054
So Saltburn was a, , mild hit at the
box office around Christmas time.
1291
01:02:07,094 --> 01:02:10,114
And then after it had only been out
of theaters for a few weeks and had
1292
01:02:10,114 --> 01:02:13,754
been doing pretty well, they released
it on Amazon Prime and it became a
1293
01:02:13,764 --> 01:02:15,934
huge, huge success on Amazon Prime.
1294
01:02:16,224 --> 01:02:19,724
The song that's used in the
final credits became a top 40
1295
01:02:19,724 --> 01:02:21,014
hit for the first time ever.
1296
01:02:21,014 --> 01:02:25,744
It was like the song from the early 2000s
that was at a murder on the dance floor.
1297
01:02:25,744 --> 01:02:26,854
I think it was called anyway.
1298
01:02:26,904 --> 01:02:27,324
RipleySona: Mm-Hmm.
1299
01:02:27,579 --> 01:02:29,449
Victor: it was a phenomenon
basically on streaming.
1300
01:02:29,809 --> 01:02:33,909
, all that is to say that, uh, it
is a very indebted to the Ripley
1301
01:02:33,919 --> 01:02:37,239
story, but I do recommend it to
you because it , verges on camp.
1302
01:02:37,249 --> 01:02:40,489
It is a lot of fun where this
one is very dour, to be honest.
1303
01:02:41,164 --> 01:02:44,004
And, , that one doesn't fully work for me
either, but it is definitely interesting.
1304
01:02:44,004 --> 01:02:45,594
And you'll definitely
remember having seen it.
1305
01:02:46,164 --> 01:02:46,704
Let's say that.
1306
01:02:47,184 --> 01:02:50,904
So it has its moments, but that is a
very entertaining version of the story.
1307
01:02:50,904 --> 01:02:53,214
If you'd like to see it from
a very different perspective,
1308
01:02:53,264 --> 01:02:54,194
it's not beat for beat.
1309
01:02:54,194 --> 01:02:56,264
So don't feel like, Oh,
I've already seen Ripley.
1310
01:02:56,264 --> 01:02:57,114
I've seen that story.
1311
01:02:57,124 --> 01:03:00,114
It's significantly different,
but obviously inspired once
1312
01:03:00,114 --> 01:03:02,264
again, the character of Ripley.
1313
01:03:02,674 --> 01:03:06,434
So one more possible connection
for everybody to seek out that is
1314
01:03:06,434 --> 01:03:07,554
still available on Amazon prime.
1315
01:03:07,984 --> 01:03:12,594
And yeah, finish this one out, Sona, and,
uh, maybe we'll, uh, get final, final
1316
01:03:12,594 --> 01:03:14,044
word on that in our next conversation.
1317
01:03:14,654 --> 01:03:14,834
All right.
1318
01:03:14,834 --> 01:03:16,224
Thanks again for the conversation.
1319
01:03:16,364 --> 01:03:17,134
I'll talk to you soon.
1320
01:03:17,559 --> 01:03:17,769
RipleySona: Great.
1321
01:03:17,769 --> 01:03:18,519
Talk to you soon.
1322
01:03:18,519 --> 01:03:18,520
Bye.
1323
01:03:21,090 --> 01:03:21,350
Victor: All right.
1324
01:03:21,350 --> 01:03:22,980
So that was my conversation with Sona.
1325
01:03:23,390 --> 01:03:27,000
She will be finishing the rest
of the series or the season.
1326
01:03:27,390 --> 01:03:30,650
If this is successful, and maybe this
is why they cast someone older, there
1327
01:03:30,650 --> 01:03:35,870
may very well be adaptations of the
following subsequent Ripley books as well.
1328
01:03:36,260 --> 01:03:40,465
I'm going to spoil the rest of
the season of the show beyond the
1329
01:03:40,855 --> 01:03:44,805
murder of Dickie and give you some
of my thoughts on that as well.
1330
01:03:45,205 --> 01:03:48,695
As I already touched on here, I find
it strange that they came up with this
1331
01:03:48,715 --> 01:03:53,835
alternate version of how Tom would
have had any association with Dickie.
1332
01:03:54,215 --> 01:03:57,625
And it's hard for me to believe that
these actors are supposed to be in
1333
01:03:57,625 --> 01:04:03,345
their twenties, maybe even early
thirties, off by 10 years or more,
1334
01:04:03,695 --> 01:04:07,545
which once again is problematic, even
in someone in their thirties, when
1335
01:04:07,545 --> 01:04:13,180
you consider that Italy even, let's
see, 1961 is 14 years out of the war.
1336
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,110
So someone in their early thirties would
have been a teenager during the war.
1337
01:04:16,110 --> 01:04:21,370
So maybe maybe, but it does seem
a little odd and a change in the
1338
01:04:21,370 --> 01:04:25,500
adaptation that doesn't necessarily add
anything to the read of the material.
1339
01:04:25,870 --> 01:04:26,190
. Okay.
1340
01:04:26,190 --> 01:04:28,300
Huge plot contrivance here for me.
1341
01:04:28,700 --> 01:04:32,270
We have this very entertaining cat
and mouse chase that plays out between
1342
01:04:32,340 --> 01:04:35,370
this very charismatic, interesting
actor who I've never seen before
1343
01:04:35,370 --> 01:04:37,300
playing the investigator here.
1344
01:04:37,685 --> 01:04:41,525
But interesting, one of the things that I
think works really well here is how this
1345
01:04:41,525 --> 01:04:47,555
crime is happening in plain sight, how the
forensics of the current time would have
1346
01:04:47,555 --> 01:04:50,955
never allowed this to happen, obviously,
and that obviously is very intentional.
1347
01:04:50,995 --> 01:04:54,535
This could have only happened
where you're using someone's
1348
01:04:54,535 --> 01:04:58,455
signature, someone's typewriter
as a fingerprint to identify them.
1349
01:04:58,455 --> 01:05:02,335
And of course that just mopping
up some blood off the hardwood
1350
01:05:02,335 --> 01:05:05,245
floor is enough to cover up a
murder scene where now, of course.
1351
01:05:05,650 --> 01:05:08,480
Forensics would have identified
blood all over that apartment.
1352
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,650
, especially when you consider
Freddie's murder, for example.
1353
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,760
So all of that is fun, setting it in
this time period before this happens.
1354
01:05:15,060 --> 01:05:19,100
The choice of black and white is strange,
probably a wink at, let's say, some of
1355
01:05:19,110 --> 01:05:24,480
these Italian classics like The Bicycle
Thiefs or La Dolce Vita, all shot in
1356
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:28,410
black and white, of course, and also late
fifties, early sixties for those films.
1357
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:33,385
And maybe the most contemporary
aspect of this is not only Ripley's
1358
01:05:33,395 --> 01:05:36,765
love hate relationship with
the wealthy people around him,
1359
01:05:37,165 --> 01:05:40,315
something that I think culturally
has become just a sport nowadays.
1360
01:05:40,730 --> 01:05:45,090
Our fascination with these rich people
that we claim to hate, but do we really?
1361
01:05:45,460 --> 01:05:47,410
And it does explore that
in a very subtle way.
1362
01:05:47,410 --> 01:05:52,300
I think it's very clever in how they
explore that theme oftentimes just
1363
01:05:52,300 --> 01:05:53,890
the framing of a character's face.
1364
01:05:54,270 --> 01:05:58,030
The addition of the Caravaggio, and
it's his history as a murderer that
1365
01:05:58,380 --> 01:06:02,570
was traipsing around Europe as well,
very much parallels Tom's story.
1366
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,650
And that's interesting, an addition here
from Zalian, not in the original text.
1367
01:06:06,155 --> 01:06:09,955
And lastly, I also like the fact that
everybody has their own bias, even
1368
01:06:09,965 --> 01:06:14,925
this really intelligent police officer,
honestly, just because he refuses to
1369
01:06:14,925 --> 01:06:18,935
listen to the hysterical woman Marge
could have probably cracked the case
1370
01:06:18,955 --> 01:06:23,585
and caught Tom if he didn't have his
own biases in ignoring her testimony.
1371
01:06:23,915 --> 01:06:27,275
So I do like the fact that everybody's
blind in a slightly different way.
1372
01:06:27,435 --> 01:06:32,195
Marge is fixated on the fact that Tom
didn't love her or maybe was gay and
1373
01:06:32,195 --> 01:06:35,165
that's why he wasn't in a relationship
with her, wasn't willing to commit to her.
1374
01:06:35,540 --> 01:06:38,940
And that becomes her prism in which
she sees the events playing out.
1375
01:06:39,300 --> 01:06:43,150
Dickie, for example, doesn't see
the scam of , the girl in the taxi
1376
01:06:43,150 --> 01:06:47,920
ride, and yet can see the mafioso
sees the risk of that immediately.
1377
01:06:48,250 --> 01:06:49,350
And this is across the board.
1378
01:06:49,380 --> 01:06:53,170
Everybody has a certain blind spot and
misses what is right in front of their
1379
01:06:53,170 --> 01:06:58,560
face because of their own pre assumptions
or their own prejudices, which does
1380
01:06:58,580 --> 01:07:02,920
lead me to something that I think
is intentional and thematic and yet.
1381
01:07:03,340 --> 01:07:08,690
A huge plot hole that this super
adept, dogged investigator never
1382
01:07:08,690 --> 01:07:11,170
sees a photograph of Dickey.
1383
01:07:11,570 --> 01:07:15,780
Under any other circumstances, I
would buy this hook, line, and sinker.
1384
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:17,510
Someone said, I saw the guy.
1385
01:07:17,660 --> 01:07:19,080
Someone said he signed his paperwork.
1386
01:07:19,090 --> 01:07:20,480
Someone says that's a signature.
1387
01:07:20,530 --> 01:07:21,840
Someone said that's his typewriter.
1388
01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:26,250
And the reality is 90 percent of us
would simply say, yep, I have a story
1389
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:27,810
that's convenient to my beliefs.
1390
01:07:27,900 --> 01:07:30,030
So therefore I'm in accordance.
1391
01:07:30,060 --> 01:07:30,660
I got it.
1392
01:07:31,010 --> 01:07:33,070
But this woman, Marge, is.
1393
01:07:33,550 --> 01:07:38,350
writing a book about her experiences with
Dickie and has photographs everywhere.
1394
01:07:38,350 --> 01:07:41,030
She is a photographer, not
a great one, but regardless,
1395
01:07:41,030 --> 01:07:42,050
there are photos everywhere.
1396
01:07:42,430 --> 01:07:46,330
And if he had simply said, please
give me photos of all the main
1397
01:07:46,330 --> 01:07:49,830
players here so I could stick them
up on my corkboard, this whole thing
1398
01:07:49,830 --> 01:07:51,580
would have been cracked long before.
1399
01:07:51,790 --> 01:07:54,650
And that is a little bit of
a, one contrivance that I
1400
01:07:54,660 --> 01:07:56,520
find a little too convenient.
1401
01:07:56,890 --> 01:08:00,540
So do send me an email, need
some introduction at gmail.
1402
01:08:00,540 --> 01:08:00,840
com.
1403
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,515
Tell me if these plot holes Annoyed you?
1404
01:08:03,525 --> 01:08:04,315
Irritated you?
1405
01:08:04,545 --> 01:08:05,565
Detracted from the film?
1406
01:08:05,565 --> 01:08:08,925
Or maybe I miss reading these things
and you have a more elegant or
1407
01:08:08,925 --> 01:08:11,785
charitable way to read some of these
things that I see as plot holes.
1408
01:08:12,165 --> 01:08:14,915
And check in later this week, I'll
be having a conversation about
1409
01:08:14,915 --> 01:08:19,785
the films of Alex Garland and then
reviewing his new film, Civil War,
1410
01:08:19,995 --> 01:08:21,075
which is coming out on Friday.
1411
01:08:21,465 --> 01:08:23,235
Oh, and of course, check out my letterbox.
1412
01:08:23,635 --> 01:08:27,285
list attached to this, to the show
notes of this episode where I have
1413
01:08:27,285 --> 01:08:31,205
all of those recommendations for
other Ripley adjacent films and TV
1414
01:08:31,205 --> 01:08:32,345
series you might want to check out.
1415
01:08:32,755 --> 01:08:33,285
I'll talk to you soon.