Healthy Churches Multiplying in Colombia

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This is Missio Ecclesia, sharing stories from the mission field, engaging ideas with charity, and recovering the church as the center of missions.
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Sam, this is episode six, our final episode of season one.
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And it turns out it's a pretty historic moment for us.
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Yeah, it's been pretty great.
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I've been excited by the response that we've been getting.
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Yeah, this is actually the first episode that we've recorded since the podcast went live.
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So our moms have gotten to hear from us.
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And it turns out that our moms have actually shared the podcast with a couple of their friends.
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It's been encouraging.
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Yeah, it's been pretty encouraging so far, the response that we've gotten, and just hopeful that it's helpful to folks and that people are encouraged by what God is doing around the world.
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Yeah.
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Amen to that.
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Yeah, I've been really encouraged by the feedback and the engagement.
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That's been a really fun part of doing this.
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But this is, as I said, our last episode of season one.
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And so I was hoping that you could give us maybe a little bit of a trailer for what's to come in season two before we get to our guests for today.
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Yeah.
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So in season two, we are looking at talking about suffering and risk in missions with a really dear brother who is serving in the Middle East, pastoring a local church there.
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We are hoping to have a conversation about hospitality in missions.
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We want to talk about the idea of the priesthood of all believers and the important role that that plays in missions, but also sometimes how it's misunderstood.
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So we're looking forward to all of that and more in the coming season.
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So if you've been benefited from what's been going on so far in season one, we'd ask that you just leave us a rating and maybe even a review.
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And that'll help people to find us as we plow ahead into some of these topics coming up.
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Perfect.
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Yeah, I'm looking forward to those conversations in season two.
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But today we have with us Will Becknal and Pastor Nicolás hailing all the way from Bogotá, Colombia.
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Will, Pastor Nicolás, welcome, brothers.
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Thank you so much for taking time to be with us today.
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And we want to jump right in.
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So if each of you could just give us a little bit about yourselves and what you're currently doing there in Bogotá.
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Yeah, it's so good to be with you guys.
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And I have enjoyed the episode so far as well.
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So thank you guys for doing this.
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Did we tell you about that or did our moms reach No, my name is Will.
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Yeah, I serve here in Bogotá.
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I'm the city strategy leader for our org.
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And my job is to really connect well with U.S.
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churches and Colombian churches to see the gospel go forth.
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And so we as a team walk alongside our local churches.
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As I'm sure we're going to talk about, the Lord's done an incredible work here among Pillar Churches that are growing and thriving and doing an amazing work.
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And so, really, honestly, I get to brag.
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I really think I have the best job.
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The Lord has just been so kind to us that when I do work, it's not work.
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Just hanging out with some brothers and sisters who love the Lord.
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And so it's it's exciting to be here.
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And I'm Nicolás Osorio.
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I'm a pastor here in Bogotá.
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I've been a pastor for 14 years already.
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The church I'm pastoring is Iglesia Bautista Renacer.
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It's like New Birth Baptist Church.
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I also work with the Charles Simeon Trust.
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I'm associate director for Spanish Initiatives.
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So I'm always involved with pastors from Latin America, seeing what's going on in their churches and the church in Latin America, especially through preaching, but I can see other things as well, like church planting and the growth that the church is having in Latin America.
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So yeah, that's what I do.
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Brothers, this is so encouraging for us, and we're really glad to have you with us.
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Some of my teammates were just in Bogotá a month or so ago attending a pastor's conference there for Pillar Churches from across Colombia.
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And they came away super encouraged by the maturity of these churches, by the heart that these churches have for the nations.
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We want to hear more about what God's doing in the network, but some of our listeners are probably not at all familiar with what Pillar is, much less Pillar Colombia.
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So can you tell us a little bit about what that is and how it came to be?
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So we were a group of friends, actually.
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We were pastors who were friends and we were trying to do things together.
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There were many ministries that connected us.
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For example, TGC or a big conference here in Colombia that is called Muestra Cristo.
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It's a conference that a publishing house does every year.
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So there were these ministries that connected us, but those ministries were not for church planting or missions or anything like that.
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So we were trying to do things like, for example, helping pastors to grow in a healthier understanding of their church and the gospel.
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We were trying to do conferences by ourselves.
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So that's when the Pillar Network came through a pastor in the coast of Colombia.
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His name is Juan Hernández.
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He has this capacity to connect people.
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So he met the Pillar Network and he brought it to Colombia to help the whole country, not just his church or his region, but the whole country.
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So we started to have an annual conference with them and partnerships and then church planting through the Pillar Network.
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Because what the Pillar Network does here is helping us to keep doing what we were already doing.
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So they give us resources, connections, and it's just helping us to do that in a more effective way.
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Well, maybe you could share a little bit more about how you fit into this network, your role as a missionary, how you're able to serve, connect, encourage, how pushing the work forward, and also just a little more of the connection to Pillar in the US.
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Yeah, you know, we're a legacy field here.
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We've had personnel here for a long time.
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Colombia is a very interesting setting because of the violence and some of the things that the country has dealt with.
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We've never really had the huge presence that maybe some of the other Latin American countries had in terms of missionary presence and work.
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But recently, Latin America and specifically Colombia has seen a growth in prosperity Gospel and has done a lot of damage, a lot of damage, including to some of our legacy work.
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A lot of our legacy work has been damaged by prosperity gospel.
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And so when we got here, really it was really difficult for us because of just how damaged the work was and how influential the prosperity gospel had become.
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And when I met some of these brothers like Nicolás and some of the other Pillar guys, there was just an immediate affinity towards each other because we're like-minded, because we see the gospel clearly and because we love the local church and we want to see it thrive as the bride of Christ here in Colombia.
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And so we really, about three years ago, as a team, really decided, man, these brothers are doing incredible work.
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What would it look like for us to just be champions for them?
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How could we come alongside them and be their support here in country, but then also be a voice for them in the United States?
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And so we started reaching out to our connections at Pillar Churches in the United States and we connected with Dave Keene.
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And it's just been an incredible partnership, really, between the three, between our organization, between Pillar Colombia, and between Pillar US, just to come alongside.
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And I love what Nicolás said.
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Well, we didn't come in and teach them anything.
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Honestly, these brothers were doing it already.
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The Lord was doing and is doing an incredible work in them.
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We just came alongside and said, How can we help?
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How can we help you do more?
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How can we help you train more?
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How can we help you continue to grow?
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And U.S.
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Pillar has walked alongside of us and has been an incredible partner.
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That's encouraging.
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Just out of curiosity, Will, are you a member at Nicolás's church?
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I am not.
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He wouldn't let me.
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Uh no.
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No, I am a member of another one of our Pillar Churches.
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It is up on not far from Nicolás's church, but we've been there now for about two years. But we do have other personnel that are in the membership process at Nicolás's church.
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Oh, that's encouraging.
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That's good.
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A minute ago, Sam referenced his teammates that were there in Bogotá, which maybe it sounds a little odd, missionaries in Central Asia showing it in Bogotá at a pastor's conference, , but they weren't just there on vacation.
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We had heard from you, Will, and from guys like Dave Keene at Pillar U.S.
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that the Colombian church really has a heart for the nations and really has a heart for church planting, not just locally there in Colombia or Latin America, but worldwide.
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And so just a couple weeks ago, I spoke to a member of Nicolás's church that seems to have a substantive, sincere desire to come to Central Asia as a cross-cultural worker.
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And I was just super encouraged by this brother.
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And I think it's realistic to imagine a world in which he's here in the not too distant future serving on the ground with one of our teams.
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And so, Nicolás, I would just love to hear from you a little bit to what do you credit this sort of recent surge in maturity and in growth among these Pillar churches?
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Yeah, I think the main route for this revival would be a focus on the local church and what a healthy church is.
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We have been working for a long time, understanding what is a healthy church.
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And when you think about that, when you grow in that, you will naturally start to think about church planting and missions.
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So we have been working with other pastors for more, probably almost 10 years already, trying to help others, and of course, first ourselves understanding what is a healthy church, but then helping other pastors who are coming from these different contexts.
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So we already mentioned the prosperity gospel, that's very common here, and many pastors are in this transition, understanding that they need to grow in doctrine and their ecclesiology needs to be better, more biblical, and they seek us and they ask for help if we can guide them in that transition.
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So that's a very common issue here.
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You're talking, brother, about pastors in these churches where the prosperity gospel is prominent, are seeking you guys out for help?
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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This is the typical transition.
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They start to watch videos from Paul Washer, John MacArthur, John Piper.
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They typically start to listen to other voices.
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Even some preachers here in Latin America, like Sugel Michelen and Miguel Núñez, and they start to see other aspects of the gospel or the doctrine, the Bible that they didn't know.
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So they want help to understand how they can move from what they understand now, that is a bad doctrine, to a good doctrine.
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And that's where they seek for help.
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So, as I said, we have been doing this for a long time, and now we are in the point where we see that we need to do this with new churches.
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So church planting is like the next step for us.
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There are many churches right now who are planting churches here in Colombia, like healthy churches, and then missions.
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I think it's like the realization that we as Latin Americans are able to send missionaries.
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That's like a discovery for us.
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We always thought like the Americans send missionaries and we just pray, you know.
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But now we understand, hey, there are places where for us it's easier to get in.
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Even when we don't have the resources, we can help each other to do that because now we are not thinking about missions like a single church, but as a group of churches, as a network.
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So that's probably what has been happening here in Colombia.
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Yeah.
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That's really encouraging to hear about even how people are coming out of a prosperity background and coming to see the value of the local church and even getting greater clarity on the gospel.
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And we praise the Lord for that.
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I wonder if you could just kind of paint a picture for us, because I don't really know, about what Colombia looks like spiritually, just more generally.
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What is the spiritual climate like in Colombia?
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Are people going to assume Roman Catholicism is predominant, or people going to church?
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Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
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Yeah, so Colombia really is a mixed bag.
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We obviously have the Roman Catholicism influence that is strong.
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I would say it tends to be stronger in the smaller villages and towns than it does in the big cities.
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The big cities tend to be more postmodern, more socialistic, more rejecting any sort of belief in a God, period.
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Many people, , just yesterday I was talking to a young couple in the plaza of one of our towns here, just on the outside of Bogotá.
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And when I asked her what she believed, she started and said, I'm Catholic.
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And I said, Okay, so let's talk about that.
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We started to talk.
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She said, Well, I don't believe in God and I don't read the Bible.
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And so the reality is she's Catholic because grandma and grandpa were Catholic.
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But today she doesn't have any sort of faith or practice.
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She may go to the Catholic Church because , you know, on Mother's Day or something like that, because that's what grandma wants.
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But the reality is they don't really have that stronghold of a religion.
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And then you've got the huge prosperity gospel churches.
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We have some of the largest prosperity gospel churches in Latin America here in Colombia and in Bogotá.
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And so the reality is most people that we talk to either are going to say they're Catholics, but they don't practice, or they reject the church because they went to a Christian church, a so-called Christian church, and the only person who got rich was the pastor and they left with no money and their family has no savings, and now they want to reject the church altogether.
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And so you have that as kind of the background in which we're seeing the Lord do some incredible work, is either people coming from this weak Catholic background, this intellectual, postmodern type background, or they've been seriously hurt by the so-called Christian church and they don't want any religion.
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That's good.
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Nicolás, anything you would add to that, brother?
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Yeah, I would add that there are many good churches as well, but they are typically very small and they are by themselves.
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There's a lot of division here among Christians.
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So there are the fundamentalist church who are always like fighting against themselves and they are not willing to have friends from other camps.
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There are the Reformed Baptists that are super reformed, and if you sing another thing that is not a psalm, you are not reformed, and that kind of mentality.
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So something we have been trying to do is to promote unity in those camps, but yeah, that has been hard as well.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Thanks for helping to paint the picture for us, both of you.
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That's actually really interesting.
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One of the other notes that you've been striking is this concern that both of you have and that the Pillar Network there in Colombia has for healthy church.
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But it seems like a concern for healthy church has not stopped a really encouraging work of God there in Colombia in terms of evangelism, in terms of church planting, missions, investing in church leaders.
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Make the connection for us.
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Why is that true that a focus on healthy church has not stifled expansion, if we can use that word?
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That's a great question that Dean's asking.
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And I think sometimes people assume that a focus on things like that will slow things down.
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I'm really interested to hear it too, what you have to say.
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Yeah, I would say that the Lord is doing a movement here.
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He is doing a movement of spreading healthy churches across this country that are planting more healthy churches and now want to send missionaries to help with healthy churches.
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And a lot of it honestly has been there are so many unhealthy churches and broken churches here that people are feeling the emptiness of it.
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They were reached in some manners of that word, but the reality is they weren't formed as disciples.
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And so they're being raised up in these churches.
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And one of the things that's happening across these churches is these churches have made a commitment to expository preaching.
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And over and over and over again, we hear from people that are leaving these other churches or coming in from no church background, and they're saying this phrase I've never heard the Bible explained like that.
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I've never heard the Bible preach like that.
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I never realized that before.
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And so, with this renewal of expository preaching, a commitment to true, authentic, regenerate church membership is causing these people to really truly experience what is the local body of Christ.
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And when they experience it to this level, it just overflows.
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I mean, so many of our churches are looking for what do we do now?
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We're running out of space in our building, so let's plant.
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One of the things that Renacer has experienced is they've planted multiple times to give them more space in their building, and every time they've planted, the Lord has brought them more.
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And so we've not seen a focus on healthy church stunt anything.
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But rather it's grown more because they're teaching, they're investing, they're discipling, and as an outflow of that, the gospel is going forth.
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Yeah, I would add that when you realize that God wants to display his glory through the church, now you start to understand that you need to plan churches, for example.
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So if you think, well, any church as they do ministry, it's okay since there are churches, you won't do anything if you think like that.
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But when you understand that this is about the glory of God, this is about how we are showing his grace, and as we'll said, what the word is saying deeply, and we see that other churches are not doing that, then you understand, okay, we need to plan churches, we need to share this with others.
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So I think that the conviction of what a healthy church is and how that manifests the glory of God to others, that gives you that motivation to spread these in other places.
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As I'm listening to you guys, it's really encouraging, and the most of my heart is encouraged, but there's also this little thought in my brain like, why did I not decide 15 years ago to move to Colombia instead of to Central Asia?
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You know, we all kind of want to get caught up in a work of God.
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But in seriousness, you know, the gospel is not progressing everywhere in the world like it is there among your churches.
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And while we rejoice in that, there is a discouragement that can sneak into the heart of national believers, of missionaries, when they don't see the scale of progress in their place of service like you guys are seeing in Colombia.
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So, what encouragement, and Sam, you too, feel free to jump in here, might you offer to our brothers and sisters, missionaries or national believers, if the progress seems slow where they are?
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Well, I I would say that we have been there.
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And at the beginning is frustrating.
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I remember setting like a meeting for pastors, and we invited a famous pastor here in Latin America, his name is Sugel Michelen, and he was with us for dinner and a meeting.
00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:57.279
And we were trying so hard to do something like very structured, like a conference or even like an association or things like that.
00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:03.759
And he said, Hey, just be friends, just be friends, and this will happen in time.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:14.480
And that helped me a lot to be patient because what I saw there was, yeah, we are friends, we are doing stuff together, but I want more.
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:16.799
I want to see something bigger.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:24.400
And where you are, you just promote friendship among pastors, promote friendship among churches.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.279
That's a very good first step.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:32.480
It's probably at the beginning is not like much, but it will be in time.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:59.759
One thing I would say to folks that are living in a context like that is to trust that God means to accomplish what He intends to accomplish in gathering a people from every tribe, tongue, language, and nation that Revelation seven nine in vision is going to come about that when Jesus says that the gospel will be preached and proclaimed to the whole world.
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:04.960
That that's not a conditional clause.
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:06.880
That's something that's going to happen.
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It's certain.
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God is sovereign and he will bring these things about.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:18.000
And so as we go about the work, Hudson Taylor famously said that God's work done in God's way will never lack God's supply.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:27.680
If hard be it for me to improve on that quotation, but I would add to it that God's work done in God's way will also bring forth what God intends to bring forth in his time.
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My word which goes out from my mouth will not return to me void.
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God will accomplish it.
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And what he is asking from us who labor in the harvest fields of the world is simply to labor faithfully, labor according to his word and the principles that he has laid out in his word, which includes a caring concern for healthy churches, for churches that have a meaningful understanding of membership, that guard the gospel, that train up qualified elders, and that are on mission to see the gospel go forward to the nations from places like Colombia, even to Central Asia.
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.559
Yeah, I would say that in one way, help is coming.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:18.720
That's the encouragement thing, is that as the Lord moves in these other ways, He's moving among these churches.
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:31.680
I mean, currently, right now, we've actually got five candidates in the pipeline right now from these churches that are all looking at going somewhere and serving where the gospel is not or where churches are small.
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:38.960
And so, in this sense, we're getting to see the beauty of the body of Christ be mobilized from different areas and from different regions.
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:53.279
And so, even in some of those hard places that our people have been struggling to continue to just proclaim the gospel faithfully without seeing much from that, the good news is the gospel is going forth and it is doing its work in so many different areas.
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.519
And those people are responding to the call and they're saying, yes, I'll go.
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:04.720
And so as the Lord continues to move here, it is going to overflow from this country into so many other places.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:12.640
Will please have all five of those folks that are in the pipeline take a long look at Central Asia.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.039
We would love to talk to them.
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:16.640
I'm not kidding.
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:23.759
It's been really good to have you, brothers, and the things that you shared are super encouraging about the work that God is doing in your midst.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.200
So thanks for coming on.
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:28.000
But just want to sort of give you the final word.
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:34.640
Pastor Nicolás, will any final reflections that you would want to share with our listeners?
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.119
Yeah, I would say one I'm thankful.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.039
I'm thankful for this conversation.
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:47.039
We have been season ticket holders with front row seats to what the Lord is doing over here, and it has been just an absolute joy.
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.759
Sure, there have been struggles through that.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:55.599
Sure, there have been some times in which it's been harder than others, but just overall, it's worth it.
00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:01.039
It's worth it to invest in this work, it's worth it to love the local church well.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.359
I just think of the church we're at.
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It's a small church.
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:09.839
We only have about 28 members, , maybe 50 on a Sunday morning.
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:14.000
And they just recently started praying for an unreached people group.
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.599
And they just started recently thinking about what part could we play?
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:21.200
We're in a lower economic region of Bogotá.
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:30.160
We don't have a lot of money, and yet these people are loving the Lord, they're loving the church, they're being trained, they're being discipled, and they're saying, and what can we do?
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:40.079
And so I just want to encourage all the listeners and our brothers and sisters that are faithfully working around the world that the Lord is doing his work and it's fun to be a part of it.
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:40.720
Yeah.
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.599
I would add, please pray for a missions conference we are having this month.
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.720
Actually, Will will be the main speaker there.
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:59.680
Several churches are coming to the church where I pastor, and we will have a weekend just talking about missions, talking about how the church can be involved in missions.
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:09.039
We are praying for maybe young guys who are willing to go, and the conviction for pastors as well to support missions.
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:14.720
We as a church in Latin America are able to send, and we are called to send.
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It's our mission as well.
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:31.440
So the fact that we are more fitting to go to some places where probably Americans won't it won't be easier for them to go there, but for Latin Americans it will be easier.
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.240
The color of the skin, the culture.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:40.480
I I went to Morocco a year ago, and I felt like in the downtown of Bogotá.
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:42.480
I mean, it was very similar.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:49.200
So it's easier for us to go to some places, and the Lord has given that call to us as well.
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:55.279
So that's what we are trying to do, and there is this sense growing in our churches.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:58.480
What you guys shared is super encouraging.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.640
Like my heart is lifted, yeah, really, and a little jealous.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.640
Like, why did I not go to Bogotá 15 years ago?
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.880
That's okay.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.079
That's okay.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:11.039
Anyway.
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:13.200
Friends, that's it for this episode.
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Thanks for tuning in.
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.079
Thank you to Pastor Nicolás and to Will for being with us and to our audience.
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We do hope that you will join us in the conversation.
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:22.880
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