00:00:00
Speaker 1: As the official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings and the NFL, Ticketmaster is the safest and most convenient marketplace to score fully verified Vikings tickets. So get those touchdown celebrations ready and score your tickets today at Ticketmaster.com slash Vikings. Sundays are about to get even better with the new NFL Powerball X's and O's game from the Minnesota Lottery. Choose eight NFL team logos for your chance at the jackpot. You must be 18 or older to play. Join Paul Allen and Alec Lewis this Friday, October 30th at the Buffalo Wild Wings in Roseville for Friday Football Feast presented by Coors Light. Visit vikings.com slash BWW for full schedule and details. Before kickoff, there's one sign that it's game time, and that's when the mountains turn blue. Be sure to get your mountain cold Coors Light at U.S. Bank Stadium. Hey, everyone. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of The Tailgate. Thanks for listening to our podcast feed. Chad is out this week. He's on a honeymoon over in Europe. And so the great Zach Martina, who has been on time and time again to discuss his favorite team, the Lions, joined me. Just always a blast when he's on. A lot of back and forth trash talk. A lot of fun information. I hope you guys enjoy the show. Boom! I'm hot today. Wreck it. Wreck it. That's a bad man.
00:01:30
Speaker 2: Come on, baby. Turn me up. Yeah!
00:01:32
Speaker 1: Touchdown! Hey everybody, welcome back to the Vikings Tailgate, brought to you by Ticketmaster, the official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings. I'm your host, Cy Amundsen. Your Minnesota Vikings are 6-0, and it is Lions Week, and that can only mean one thing. Despite the absence of the great Chad Daniels, our favorite Detroit fanatic is back. Ladies and gentlemen... Please welcome the one, the only, the talented Zach Martina. Hi, Zachary.
00:02:07
Speaker 2: Hey, Cy. Chad, you're dead to me forever.
00:02:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, he can't come through for everybody all the time. I don't want to waste any time, Zach. I want to know.
00:02:18
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
00:02:19
Speaker 1: Listen to me. Best division in football. Both our teams.
00:02:21
Speaker 2: No question.
00:02:22
Speaker 1: Both our teams are battling. I think... I'm going to be fair. I think my team is... Taking a lot of heat right now, despite being the number one team in the division. I think there's a lot of haters. I think there's a lot of doubters. We can get into that later.
00:02:37
Speaker 2: But... Well, I think you guys are the most surprising team in the league so far.
00:02:40
Speaker 1: I think you're the most surprising team in the league so far.
00:02:42
Speaker 2: I mean, that was kind of a compliment. Like, who doesn't love a good surprise?
00:02:47
Speaker 1: There was a negative comment, and you know it.
00:02:49
Speaker 2: It was not. I come on here to be friendly. I come on here to see my friends. And you just... You're making it all... real green bay well.
00:02:59
Speaker 1: Let me compliment you i'm surprised i think it's surprising that your team puts their shoes on and takes the field every week the point is zach i i know that wasn't great but you started it the point here zach i started by being nice it was a backhanded compliment and you i come from the state of passive aggressiveness you don't think i understand oh you're the most surprising team in the league isn't that neat You.
00:03:24
Speaker 2: Said that you're catching a lot of heat. So that's because you are surprising. People aren't buying in. I didn't say I wasn't buying in. I was speaking from an NFL perspective.
00:03:34
Speaker 1: Why did your coach go for it on fourth down from his own 20-some yard line in the fourth quarter?
00:03:39
Speaker 2: That was, of all the fourth down calls he's made, that was bizarre. Honestly, the only thing I can think of is that it was, in that first half, LeFleur was just, fourth downing down our throat and uh it was it was a you know bad decision uh but we we pulled it out that was that was rough you've.
00:03:58
Speaker 1: Been coming on here for four or five seasons and every single time you come on here i ask you this question and i am now going to ask it again in the face of that fourth down because you're new to success you're like the family that won the lottery and bought a lake house you didn't inherit the lake house from your banker dad. And I actually think that's admirable. I think that's a likable trait about the Detroit Lions fan base.
00:04:24
Speaker 2: Why are you hitting me with the back of your hand the way that you are? This does not seem complimentary at all.
00:04:30
Speaker 1: But my question is, at what point, and I've asked this over and over again, at what point do you start worrying about the crazy risks and crazy gambles being the thing that ultimately prevents you from getting to where you want to go, which is a Super Bowl and winning a Super Bowl trophy. Because, Zach, I say, you know, as our fan base worries about our offense, the thing about winning a Super Bowl is you have to succeed minimum against three really good teams in a row, if not four.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: Well, neither of us really know what it takes to win a Super Bowl.
00:05:09
Speaker 1: I understand that, but I'm asking you, where has your worry meter grown to or has it stayed the same like where are you at in terms of this like do i believe dan campbell can three or four games in a row against the best teams in the league not go for on fourth down when he should take field goals and not go for it from zone 20 like has that is this more alarming to you than it's ever been or are you.
00:05:35
Speaker 2: Just still riding high Well, I think you're looking at just one side of the coin. There have been plenty of times where he's settled for field goals in ranges that he would have gone for it. Obviously, the fourth down call against Green Bay at the 20, that's something people are going to notice, something people are going to see. I'm not worried about it until it costs us something.
00:05:59
Speaker 1: But it did already. It's something big. It did already.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: What?
00:06:01
Speaker 1: It cost you the game against the Packers in the playoffs that you should have won. It did cost you that game. He went for it on two fourth downs when he should have kicked field goals a couple years ago in the playoffs.
00:06:12
Speaker 2: I don't know that we played. We didn't lose to the Packers in the playoffs.
00:06:15
Speaker 1: Who was it against? It doesn't matter. Who was he playing against?
00:06:17
Speaker 2: It does matter. I don't want you coming out saying that we lost to the Packers.
00:06:21
Speaker 1: Oh, sorry. I slipped up. You're the greatest at it. It was the NFC Championship game. The 49ers. 49ers.
00:06:29
Speaker 2: And that was more than his fourth down calls. That was what was.
00:06:32
Speaker 1: More than something, but the something still makes.
00:06:35
Speaker 2: Up the everything. That's why I'm not worried about it. The greatest risk, the thing that cost us that NFC championship, and the same thing that is costing us games this year is our defense. That is my worry. Our defense over. Oh, my God. You're not looking at the numbers, dude.
00:06:53
Speaker 1: I never look at the numbers. I never look at the numbers.
00:06:55
Speaker 2: Our defense was statistically worse than our 0-16 team up until Arizona. We didn't win a game. And the defense that we are out now with 3-2 was worse than that. Thank God our offense is, you know, putting up points and getting yards and doing what they got to do. But, yeah, the defense is historically bad. It was historically bad coming into the Arizona game. I don't know where it stands overall in the annals of history, but the defense is bad. Don't you come at me telling me that.
00:07:26
Speaker 1: I think your defense, it doesn't matter how bad they are. You kick those field goals, you'd have won the NFC Championship game. But let's go here.
00:07:33
Speaker 2: We blew a multiple touchdown lead in the second half.
00:07:38
Speaker 1: And it could have been multiple touchdowns and two more field goals. It's very interesting what our two fan bases are going through because you have one of the top, if not the top offenses in the league.
00:07:50
Speaker 2: Right.
00:07:51
Speaker 1: And a defense that everybody's worried about. And we have the number one defense in the league and an offense that everybody's worried about. No, by the way, we have a really good special teams unit. It's I will say I'm curious how it's being received in your fan base, because I think defensive football and and like because the one thing you can say about the offense, they're not turning the ball over. They're number one in turnover differential and they're number two in clock control, time of possession. That is a real metric, but it's just not pretty. And I think that is alarming to people and maybe justifiably so. But what is the vibe? Are people as worried in Detroit about the defense as people all here seem to be about the offense? Because I have this theory. I think other people in town here have it too. It's like, If we had the number one offense and a defense that was struggling, I think you'd have less angst.
00:08:48
Speaker 2: Well, based on the numbers that I was just referencing, if you skipped forward, go ahead and skip back and you'll hear exactly what I was talking about. But I think that the worry on the defense here, especially in those first three weeks, was... I mean, I can't remember being more worried about anything.
00:09:08
Speaker 1: Okay. It was bad. I mean, we had.
00:09:11
Speaker 2: that whole Terry on Arnold situation, which is just, I don't even want to get into it. Brian branches back. And I think that made a difference. You could definitely feel his presence against screen Bay. It is not the sky is falling anymore, but if you looked up to the sky right now, there'd still be some cracks.
00:09:27
Speaker 1: Another thing you were really confident about over the past few years that hasn't really come home to roost. And I don't want to say this before the Vikings play you guys. And then it burns me. You're going to, I'm going to cushion it. You and I both sat here and thought, oh, like you thought, yay. And I thought, oh, no, the Lions have Jamison Williams. And man, like, I'm not saying he hasn't put up good numbers and he hasn't been a valuable football player. But I was worried when you guys got that guy that he was a dominate the division, like winner. 1B to Justin Jefferson type guy. And I think you thought that too. Where are we at in the Jamison Williams experience?
00:10:09
Speaker 2: First three games were disappointing. But in these last two games, I'd encourage you to take a look at the numbers. Jamison Williams has seemingly pulled it together. He has He has brought in a lot of balls and he has racked up a lot of yards. Two touchdowns and three touchdowns in the last three games. Over 100 against Arizona. 91, I think, against Green Bay. Lots of targets. Jared Goff definitely trusts him. I'm still all in on James. And a guy that is built like him, that's like a string bean that's supposed to be speed and everything. He's out there throwing blocks. He does what he's supposed to do. I love him. I love him.
00:10:50
Speaker 1: It will be really fascinating because a lot of the critique that the Vikings are getting is you haven't played anybody worth anything. because even the two teams you played, the Packers did not have Micah Parsons or their running back. And when you played the Bears, it was a rain game that neutralized everything. And so I think everybody's looking at this next four game stretch where you have Lions into Bills into Niners in Mexico, and then the Packers or vice versa on those two. They're like, oh, now, now not only are we going to find out about the team, but I think you even feel it nationally. Like, let's see what it looks like. But I think a lot of people, when they think about that, are thinking Bills and Niners, but you guys are the real test. With the numbers that you guys are putting up with the way Jameer is playing, I think you guys are the real litmus test here. What are you thinking going into this game when your offense meets this defense?
00:11:51
Speaker 2: I mean, I was thinking about it today. I'm really looking forward to it. It's going to be a good test. We have our starting line and I mean, before he came back, Cade Mays, he's our starting center. Juice Scruggs was as far as the numbers go, so I wouldn't expect you to know anything about it. The best center in the league. So we've got a good line, and I'm curious to see how it all gels, particularly with Blake Miller at right tackle. with the blitz schemes that Brian Flores does. He brings it in from everywhere. I'm a little less concerned than I would be if our skill positions didn't block the way that they do. I mean, you should see some of these blocks that Jameer Gibbs is putting up. He is, I mean, he's not pancaking anyone, but he's not being pancaked. You know, he's... That guy doesn't get enough credit for how tough he is. I think... You know what it's going to be? It's going to calm anyone's nerves on what Drew Petzig can do as an offensive coordinator. Because this is one mind going against another great mind in Brian Flores. And I think this is a big game for our offensive coordinator. I think this is a big game to make Detroit feel, forget about Ben Johnson in a sense.
00:13:03
Speaker 1: I think it will be, it will be, you will never forget it. What do you mean? Forget about Ben Johnson. He went and has the most talented quarterback in the NFL, sans my homes. And even then some of these throws that Caleb throws, you're like, Oh boy. And they're doing what I, I don't know. You're never going to forget this. That's like saying like, that's like saying a good defensive coordinator. You'll forget all about the fact that you had Mike Tomlin. No, we won't. We had Mike Tomlin.
00:13:29
Speaker 2: If you want to make this a Bears podcast, we absolutely can. I'll tell you all the problems. This crap that he's pulling out there as a head coach, I don't think it's going to work out.
00:13:38
Speaker 1: It's clearly already working out.
00:13:40
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily working out. I mean, they haven't won anything.
00:13:44
Speaker 1: They have won as much as you've won and more in one season.
00:13:48
Speaker 2: Not true.
00:13:48
Speaker 1: How far did they go last year? They went to the second round.
00:13:52
Speaker 2: The second round.
00:13:52
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good. I mean, how far did you guys go last year?
00:13:54
Speaker 2: Do you want to take that? The year before?
00:13:56
Speaker 1: How far did you guys go last year? Last year, how far did you guys go?
00:13:59
Speaker 2: We're... Now you're... You're... I just.
00:14:02
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Constructing little narratives. I'm not constructing narratives. I just don't think you can be a grown-up.
00:14:08
Speaker 2: You're changing.
00:14:09
Speaker 1: Let me throw this at you. And by the way, Drew Petskin was on our team first. It doesn't matter. Let me... Let me.
00:14:14
Speaker 2: Maybe I won't forget if you're remembering Drew Petskin was a position coach for you.
00:14:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm a grown-up. I know who's on my team, Zach. Well, you'd be.
00:14:21
Speaker 2: Surprised how many people don't.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you right now. You could... No one's watching. No one's listening. You get to make this decision in the darkness. And somebody goes, right now, moving forward without any hurt feelings because Dan Campbell would go get another great job and be happy and everything would be great somewhere else. You can continue down the path you're on or you can just flip flop and Ben Johnson is your head coach. What are you doing?
00:14:46
Speaker 2: I'm taking Dan Campbell.
00:14:48
Speaker 1: You're a crazy person. I think Campbell's great. I just think, here's what I think of.
00:14:55
Speaker 2: What I want from my head coach is a guy that guys will play for. Not a guy that people, no one is going around saying, you know, Dan, I don't like what he's doing. I don't like how this is this or that or anything. I want my coordinators to be, I want that side of the ball to love them. I want them to be knowledgeable. I want what Dan Campbell is, and he's a leader of people.
00:15:15
Speaker 1: I think Dan Campbell is great. I've been saying that for years. But you started this conversation by undermining Ben Johnson.
00:15:24
Speaker 2: I didn't undermine anything.
00:15:25
Speaker 1: You undermined him.
00:15:27
Speaker 2: I did not.
00:15:28
Speaker 1: I just think it's sour grapes. I think the grapes are so sour that your lips are stuck inward. Like, I just... You're coming at.
00:15:37
Speaker 2: Me with more heat than you've ever come at me on this podcast, and I think you're afraid about Sunday. I think you're pretty, pretty scared, all right? You are showing right now as my favorite and something that I know about from my past years as a Lions fan. You're coming at me as a fan who's scared.
00:15:55
Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, I'm not scared. Second of all, it's called I'm Worried, Zach, and it's not new to this week. I'm always worried. Listen to me.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: Confidence, Cy. Confidence is a much better color on you, Cy. I mean, you want to call me sour grapes? You got bitter cherries over there.
00:16:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was born with bitter cherries.
00:16:16
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that. We've had some lovely conversations. Very jovial, very elevating. You're not always bitter.
00:16:24
Speaker 1: Not about football.
00:16:26
Speaker 2: Don't let him fool you. He's a sweetheart. He is a friggin' sweetheart.
00:16:30
Speaker 1: Listen to me. I'm not worried. I'm actually I think there's a lot of people nationally, locally, media who are like they're worried about this stretch. I'm not worried about it at all. Now, does that mean I'm confident that we're going to run through these teams? I just think it's fun. I think before, I think people are forgetting. Like if you'd have told everyone, hey, before the season starts, you're 6-0. You're second in the league in time of possession. You're first in the league in turnover margin. You have the best defense in the league. You have potentially the best special teams in the league. And the offense just is not figuring it out. But you are 6-0 and you're about to face all these great teams. Would you sign up for that? every fan signs up for that and it wouldn't like what what given the expectations going into the year and how strong the division is I think it's going to I think everybody also assumes that what has happened in every game is automatically going to be the game flow of this game and they're never going to figure it out and I don't know man I'm not a football coach I never played but I do I do think it is going to be really fun to see how the defense stacks up and there is some element of when you need it, right? Because I think right now this defense and special teams have been so good that as the offense figures it out, there's a part of like, Hey, control the clock, control the ball. Don't lose it. And let, let these power units do their job. And let's, let's work as a three phase football team. Now, if you go into Detroit and, and you fall down 14 points and all of a sudden you need, or, or they score first or whatever the situation may be, you know, urgency sometimes lets you throw a little caution to the wind and perhaps some caution to the wind, uh, sets the sale a little bit. And I just, I think everybody thinks exactly what you've seen so far is exactly what you're going to see these next four games, only it's better teams. And perhaps that is the case. But I'm not going to be there until I see it. Because there's too many good football players on that side of the ball. The head coach is on that side of the ball. He's always been good. I just think there's too much over there to assume that we can't get going the right direction in some important games.
00:18:57
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you feel that way. What do you want me to say?
00:19:01
Speaker 1: I'm just responding to your accusation of me being scared.
00:19:05
Speaker 2: Oh, we went back. We went all the way back to that.
00:19:07
Speaker 1: You just, it was like 45 seconds ago, a minute and a half ago at most.
00:19:10
Speaker 2: 45 seconds ago. You're now, these, I don't know if these bitter grapes have turned fermented in some way because now you're talking drunk. 45 seconds. What is happening, Cy?
00:19:22
Speaker 1: I just think, I think it is also, Such a like because everybody's looking forward to the Bills, the Niners, the Packers. There's a Bears game to end the season. I know you guys have big games coming up. This is quietly an exceptionally pivotal game for both teams.
00:19:41
Speaker 2: 100 percent. Like you said earlier, you've got the best defense going against potentially the best offense. And um it's a division game you've already won two division games that's what i'm saying one division game but we've won it i mean this is for this is a big swing in the division as far as uh as far as standings go and and and and what it looks like moving forward It's a huge game. It's a huge game.
00:20:06
Speaker 1: Also, just in each of these teams' individual paths, I think the Vikings, in theory, could more handle the adversity of a loss because you only moved to 6-1. But the upside for them with a win is 7-0 and 3-0 in the division, which is wild. That is a wild start to the season.
00:20:24
Speaker 2: That's fantastic, yeah.
00:20:26
Speaker 1: The upside for the Lions is beating the top team currently in the division... boosting yourself. The downside, if you drop this game, because who do you have after us? Who are the next couple games?
00:20:38
Speaker 2: After you, next week we have Miami on Monday night, and then I believe it's the Germany game.
00:20:43
Speaker 1: And then... Where do you guys got in Germany? New England. That's a tough game. If you drop this one, you're now a game away, a mistake away from 500 in an NFC that projects to be because of the north and the west pretty top heavy i mean you can see a situation where it is 10 and 7 is the worst team that gets in from a wild card standpoint if not 11 and 6 i mean this maybe it doesn't land there but this thing could really go off to the races so I think a lot to gain for the Vikings, a lot to gain for the Lions, but also a significant amount to lose for the Lions.
00:21:25
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a significant amount to lose for the Vikings as well, because if you do drop this game against, as you put it, the team that no one cares about going into as far as, you know, you got Buffalo coming in, you got Green Bay coming in, you got all these good games coming up, and these are your first big tests. If you drop the one that nobody is adding to that list... that could affect some transition. You could have a, that could be the beginning of a four games, four game drop. Now, all of a sudden you're, you're six and four.
00:21:53
Speaker 1: I think one thing we can agree on Zach is locker rooms are interesting places. They're weird. They're unique. Like, I think I've talked about this a lot on this show and other shows, the cliches that come out of locker rooms is we make fun of them a lot, but I think ultimately the, Some of it is media speak, but some of it is believed. You know, like when you hear a team go, nobody believed in this. It's like, well, you were picked to finish first in your division. So yeah, it's like it's not crazy. You're holding a trophy right now. But I do think those places are their own culture, their own like almost like a bomb shelter from the world. And this really unique thing happens. We saw it a couple of years ago when they were winning all those one possession games when Kirk was the quarterback. When you start doing a thing and then it happens a few times and you start believing that that's what's going to happen, any sport, right? It just compiles and you start to believe that's who you are. So the other thing that the Vikings have at stake here that they could gain or let float by is they've kind of won ugly in a lot of people's eyes through these first six games. Like if you go... beat Detroit by whatever means you have a big kick return the defense gets a couple turnovers the offense squeaks a couple drives through like you win like that again and then you get to play the bills and hell something crazy like you win that one as well and now all of a sudden you're eight no everybody in that locker room looks around and goes well this is how it works And then all of a sudden you're in December and January and you're looking around. It doesn't matter who's on the other side of the field and that you're down six in the fourth quarter. You go, well, this is what we do. We're comfortable in this place. And I think there has to be a little credit, you know, despite the people putting the Vikings 10th and 11th on their power rankings across the national media. There has to be a little credit given to this team's ability to like, no matter who you're playing, oh, you're down seven in the fourth quarter. Oh, you're down 20 against the Packers. Oh, it's not going the right way and you need a goal line stop. Like, I do think that could snowball.
00:24:05
Speaker 2: Yes, but on the flip side, you lose to Detroit, you lose to Buffalo. They're looking around and they're like, oh my gosh, we're playing good teams. This is who we are. Yeah, sure.
00:24:13
Speaker 1: That's the other side of it, Zach.
00:24:18
Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure that was out there.
00:24:20
Speaker 1: I understand how I just I.
00:24:22
Speaker 2: Just I just wanted to make sure that was out there. So everybody knew that like forever, you know, I just want I'm the other side of the coin. I'm that beautiful bird on the back of a quarter, baby.
00:24:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. Are you saying that because the bird has a short memory and you want to be the guy who forgets about Ben Johnson on your team? What do you mean by bird? What's the bird metaphor?
00:24:42
Speaker 2: George Washington is on one side.
00:24:43
Speaker 1: I understand. I just wanted to bring Ben Johnson back up. Tell me.
00:24:48
Speaker 2: I picked tails because Lions have tails. And if the Vikings had tails, they would tag it between their legs and run home before they even get to Detroit.
00:24:57
Speaker 1: The Vikings defense.
00:24:58
Speaker 2: Because they're scared, just like you.
00:25:00
Speaker 1: Have given up three points in the fourth quarter this year.
00:25:03
Speaker 2: Three points.
00:25:05
Speaker 1: KG, Kevin Garnett once famously said, come fourth quarter, bring it to the ticket. Something like that. I'm probably butchering it. But that feels right. And.
00:25:16
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:25:17
Speaker 1: Get this football team to a fourth quarter. Let the offense roll a little bit and get this football team to a fourth quarter and let's see what happens.
00:25:26
Speaker 2: I mean, that's when the offense... The second half is when the Lions' offense is also the best. That's when we're putting up the most points.
00:25:31
Speaker 1: Okay, well, bring the heat. Let's see what happens.
00:25:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you bring the heat. You bring the heat.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: I have the heat. I'm... Clearly ready to give you some of the heat. We'll do two versions of this. The first one, if the Lions.
00:25:46
Speaker 2: Both sides of the coin.
00:25:48
Speaker 1: If the Lions... You are a bird brain. If the Lions win this Sunday, it will look like what?
00:25:59
Speaker 2: As far as how the game goes?
00:26:00
Speaker 1: When the game's over, what will be the story of the game? If the Lions have won, why will they have won?
00:26:06
Speaker 2: The story of the game is one unit, either your offense or our defense, is going to outperform expectation. I think that both our offense and your defense is coming ready to play because that's what we're going to put the chips in with always is our offense. And you guys are going to do the same with your defense. They're coming prepared to play. Whoever wins this game, it is going to be because our defense continues to improve as it has, or as you put it, your offense squeaks out some drives and gets it done, which I don't think is going to happen. I, yeah, the other interesting factor is the special teams. Mm-hmm.
00:26:54
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys had an, I believe it was an old Viking, DJ Wanam, who saved Dan Campbell from a press nightmare with that fingertip on the football. Was that DJ Wanam?
00:27:04
Speaker 2: It was DJ Wanam.
00:27:05
Speaker 1: DJ Wanam!
00:27:08
Speaker 2: He's been so good.
00:27:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:27:10
Speaker 2: He's been outstanding.
00:27:13
Speaker 1: I have this habit of remembering who was on my team. I remember who was on my team. I do understand who used to be on my team.
00:27:19
Speaker 2: I remember who was on your team, too. I know a lot about the Vikings.
00:27:22
Speaker 1: I think there's a chance.
00:27:23
Speaker 2: I remember who's in my division because I'm a fan. I know who's, I know what the enemy is. I know exactly what's supposed to be going on.
00:27:32
Speaker 1: I think to your point, your face is too close to the camera and I hate it. I think there is a possibility that it is co-neutralization. It's neutralization across the board. And the defining factor is the special teams.
00:27:54
Speaker 2: Sure.
00:27:55
Speaker 1: And if the defining factor... That's how a vote goes.
00:27:58
Speaker 2: If you have three sections, the best two win. That's how it goes.
00:28:02
Speaker 1: And then I'm feeling pretty good. We got the best kicker in the league. We got the best return man in the league. We might have a pro bowler just from being a blocker on kick coverage. This DJ Dallas dude, unbelievable. He is unbelievable. Yeah. So this special teams group, if it comes down to special teams group, I'm pushing my chips in on our football team.
00:28:27
Speaker 2: I hope you do, because I'll push my chips in against that all day long.
00:28:30
Speaker 1: On your special teams unit?
00:28:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will. I think you can say you have the best kicker in the league.
00:28:37
Speaker 1: We do have the best kicker in the league.
00:28:38
Speaker 2: We have the biggest, biggest, most consistent leg in the league.
00:28:43
Speaker 1: I don't even think that's right.
00:28:44
Speaker 2: Of course you don't, because all you see is purple and yellow. You're like... You see Fry Kids from McDonald's. Just those purple and yellow mops everywhere. Rah, rah, rah.
00:28:53
Speaker 1: Who's going to win this division?
00:28:55
Speaker 2: The Lions.
00:28:56
Speaker 1: The Lions. You're certain of that?
00:28:58
Speaker 2: I push my chips in on it, yeah. I already have.
00:29:01
Speaker 1: You believe that... It is really weird that all of these fan bases have their hopes built into this. We're like... And it's not like one of the groups is aging out. That's kind of the super... special part of it. Jordan Love is young. That defense is really young over there. They have a young coach. Jared Goff is still in his prime. Jameer Gibbs is really young. The wide receivers are young. Amon Ra is young. The defense is not great or even good, but they're young, right? Dan Campbell is not. an elder coach.
00:29:36
Speaker 2: We've got three levels. We've got building blocks on all three levels.
00:29:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm saying you're young. This isn't a new thing. It's not like you're at the end of the run. This isn't Brett Favre throwing the interception against the Giants and everybody's like, well, that was kind of it. Or Aaron Rodgers and Devontae Adams texting about the last dance. The Bears, Ben Johnson, all these young players, Caleb Williams is just coming into his prime. And over on this side of the ball, I mean, you have, you know, Jefferson's in his prime. Addison's young. You know, Hawkinson's older, but the O-line is youngish, primish for the most part. A couple elder statesmen. The defense is so young. They are so, so young. And the special teams is incredibly young.
00:30:16
Speaker 2: What's your contract situation like?
00:30:19
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know stuff like that. You know who's on your team, but not how long. You mean like my personal contract to do this show? I got to tell you, it's not good enough to go through this conversation. More than two times. We can't play each other in the playoffs, I can tell you that much. I'm going to need a new contract situation. It's just fascinating because lost in the who's going to come out of potentially the best division in football this year with how competitive this could be, it's also like, oh, they're all just getting started. What is this going to look like for the next few years? It's pretty unusual.
00:30:53
Speaker 2: I would agree. It's certainly unusual, but that, you know, to be the best division in football and to have every divisional game feel like a playoff game going in. Now, if it goes that way during whatever, but going into the game, it feels like this is a playoff game. I love that. I love that. I love the competition of it. I love.
00:31:17
Speaker 1: And you now know, you now can draw that comparison because you guys have been in the playoffs.
00:31:23
Speaker 2: Twice.
00:31:24
Speaker 1: Twice. Pretty big deal.
00:31:27
Speaker 2: And you know what? You know what I love about the Vikings? And I just, it's that we can relate over it is as far as this best division in football goes, we're the only two teams who don't have a Lombardi.
00:31:38
Speaker 1: That's true. I don't, I mean, I think we've had walked different paths just to be fair.
00:31:43
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're in Minneapolis.
00:31:45
Speaker 1: We're in Detroit. They're, they're going to be different paths. I mean, you've won almost nothing for the entirety of your entire history. You even told me you think the franchise was probably cursed and, You know, we did.
00:31:55
Speaker 2: I didn't say that it was cursed. I simply told you about the curse. And, you know.
00:32:01
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of saying you're cursed.
00:32:04
Speaker 2: We won world championships. We have never won a Super Bowl, but there are championship banners in our stadium.
00:32:10
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be fun if the whole division goes to the playoffs?
00:32:15
Speaker 2: Has that ever happened? Can that happen?
00:32:17
Speaker 1: It's never happened. Not in this realignment. I do not believe it's ever happened. You know, and I think with the way you beat each other up, it would be pretty hard because, you know, with the Rams starting the way they started, it's more possible. But that Quentin Nelson going to the Seahawks and the way they looked against the Chiefs, I really don't see them losing less than 11 games or winning less than 11 games.
00:32:45
Speaker 2: They're bringing back all their backs and everything. I mean, Quentin Nelson's going to open some holes. Yeah, they're going to be a good team.
00:32:50
Speaker 1: I don't know how the math works out, but, yeah, I mean, if every one of these teams gets in, which is, I believe, a mathematical potential, like, it can happen. How fun would it be if they all get in, and then the two that, you know, they all kind of get through, and they're the four teams left in the division? That, to me, what a fun football thing that would be.
00:33:15
Speaker 2: Oh, let's all get together on Lake Michigan and just watch it. Neutral ground.
00:33:21
Speaker 1: That's not, it's literally called Lake Michigan. That's not, I know it touches the other state, but it's not, that's not neutral grounds. Listen, I'm not, I'm not convinced it's going to be Lake Michigan when it gets there. I'd love it to be Lake Minnesota. Is that what we're doing? Sign me up. Zach, why don't you, why don't you go add a couple of your tears to the shores of Lake Minnesota after this Sunday's game? Because I know you're worried and I know you want to squeeze a few out.
00:33:45
Speaker 2: Why do you want more lakes when the land of 10,000 lakes is so clearly majority man-made lakes?
00:33:53
Speaker 1: They're not. If the man is Paul Bunyan. That's not a man.
00:33:59
Speaker 2: That's a mythological figure. You're going to tell me Babe the Blue Oxen.
00:34:03
Speaker 1: It's his footprints. That's what created the lakes. He's not that big. They're not man-made lakes.
00:34:11
Speaker 2: DeForest Buckner just got traded to the 49ers.
00:34:13
Speaker 1: You're a buffoon. That sucked. I shouldn't have called you a buffoon. But I just didn't like the man-made lakes thing. You can talk a lot of trash, Zach, but it's just like us. You lay off our lakes and I'll lay off your cars that are on fire on a regular street that nobody lives on. We stay out of what each other is known for, okay?
00:34:32
Speaker 2: I mean, that's more of a how people take care of their things.
00:34:35
Speaker 1: You lay off our lakes and I'll lay off... I'm going to let it go. I'm going to let it go. I'm going to let it go. contractually, I'm going to let it go.
00:34:46
Speaker 2: Well, you know what? You've got plenty of options to go fill those with tears.
00:34:48
Speaker 1: Enjoy your spaghetti sandwiches.
00:34:51
Speaker 2: I care about you. Have you had?
00:34:53
Speaker 1: No, I haven't had a spaghetti sandwich. I used to put spaghetti on the garlic toast and then bite the garlic toast.
00:34:58
Speaker 2: Yes, that's very good. That's very good. But I'll tell you, you put some spaghetti on like Wonder Bread or a soft white bread, it's real good.
00:35:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, does it just taste like bread and spaghetti at the same time? It's not like a heat.
00:35:10
Speaker 2: You know what?
00:35:10
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm I don't know what this energy is, Zach. I think you're right. I think I am a little keyed up. What's the score going to be, Zach Martina?
00:35:20
Speaker 2: Well, you will first because you're away and I think that you should and then I will end. Oh, guests first.
00:35:28
Speaker 1: We're a polite show. We like to have the guests go first.
00:35:30
Speaker 2: Well, technically, you're going to be the guests in our house.
00:35:33
Speaker 1: I understand, but this show is my house and you're in my house and you're the guests, so guests first.
00:35:40
Speaker 2: Oh, boy. Well, I do think it's going to be a historic game. I do think it's going to be historic in that the Lions put up 56, and for the first time in history, Minnesota will get negative points.
00:35:55
Speaker 1: I'm going to refrain from making a prediction. I just think it's unbecoming.
00:36:01
Speaker 2: Go back to the archives.
00:36:04
Speaker 1: Zach, I love you a lot.
00:36:05
Speaker 2: I love you too, buddy.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing the show. I will not be speaking to you on Sunday. And, uh, I just, here's the thing. I wanted to text you during that Dan Campbell thing, but if somebody would text me during that, like, and I wasn't even going to like make fun of you. I was just going to be like, what is going on here? But if somebody would.
00:36:22
Speaker 2: Exactly the question that was going on in my house, my wife and I were like, what? He's at the 20. What's what's going on.
00:36:27
Speaker 1: If somebody would have, if he would have made it, would you have still thought it was a bad decision? Yeah. Okay. Well, at least, at least you're not like, you don't have some weird football Stockholm syndrome.
00:36:40
Speaker 2: No, that would have been that. That was just a bad call. The game wasn't on the line. It wasn't like you got to go or you're going to win. Like you're going to lose that. That call was that was rough.
00:36:51
Speaker 1: Well, I respect and appreciate you will speak after the game is over and after all the emotions have come and gone because I'm not a big trash talk guy.
00:36:59
Speaker 2: Do you want to you just listen to this episode? And you tell me you're not a trash talker.
00:37:04
Speaker 1: I'm not like, here's the thing. I don't mind a little trash talk going into it. I just don't like reveling in other people's disappointment. That's not fun.
00:37:12
Speaker 2: Karmically, I don't believe in it either.
00:37:14
Speaker 1: I think that. It's not fun. I think we all want our team to win. And I like if my team loses, I'm bummed. And that is that sucks enough. I don't need somebody to come in and go. It's not fun.
00:37:26
Speaker 2: People that talk trash to traditionally and historically cannot take being talked trash to the best trash talkers cannot take it.
00:37:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also traditionally the best trash talkers are not fulfilled as human beings emotionally. So I don't want to do that. I hope we win. I hope you don't win. I hope it's fun for me and I'm not going to pile on you. The best of luck to.
00:37:51
Speaker 2: Everything you said, but the opposite for me.
00:37:53
Speaker 1: Okay, well... Thank you, Zach Martina, for joining us. Hey, and thank you to all you guys for listening to our podcast feed. While you're here, make sure you give us a good review. Sure would help us out a lot. Finally, a huge shout out to Ticketmaster, the official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings, for helping make this show happen. Enjoy the game, everybody.
Speaker 1: As the official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings and the NFL, Ticketmaster is the safest and most convenient marketplace to score fully verified Vikings tickets. So get those touchdown celebrations ready and score your tickets today at Ticketmaster.com slash Vikings. Sundays are about to get even better with the new NFL Powerball X's and O's game from the Minnesota Lottery. Choose eight NFL team logos for your chance at the jackpot. You must be 18 or older to play. Join Paul Allen and Alec Lewis this Friday, October 30th at the Buffalo Wild Wings in Roseville for Friday Football Feast presented by Coors Light. Visit vikings.com slash BWW for full schedule and details. Before kickoff, there's one sign that it's game time, and that's when the mountains turn blue. Be sure to get your mountain cold Coors Light at U.S. Bank Stadium. Hey, everyone. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of The Tailgate. Thanks for listening to our podcast feed. Chad is out this week. He's on a honeymoon over in Europe. And so the great Zach Martina, who has been on time and time again to discuss his favorite team, the Lions, joined me. Just always a blast when he's on. A lot of back and forth trash talk. A lot of fun information. I hope you guys enjoy the show. Boom! I'm hot today. Wreck it. Wreck it. That's a bad man.
00:01:30
Speaker 2: Come on, baby. Turn me up. Yeah!
00:01:32
Speaker 1: Touchdown! Hey everybody, welcome back to the Vikings Tailgate, brought to you by Ticketmaster, the official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings. I'm your host, Cy Amundsen. Your Minnesota Vikings are 6-0, and it is Lions Week, and that can only mean one thing. Despite the absence of the great Chad Daniels, our favorite Detroit fanatic is back. Ladies and gentlemen... Please welcome the one, the only, the talented Zach Martina. Hi, Zachary.
00:02:07
Speaker 2: Hey, Cy. Chad, you're dead to me forever.
00:02:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, he can't come through for everybody all the time. I don't want to waste any time, Zach. I want to know.
00:02:18
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
00:02:19
Speaker 1: Listen to me. Best division in football. Both our teams.
00:02:21
Speaker 2: No question.
00:02:22
Speaker 1: Both our teams are battling. I think... I'm going to be fair. I think my team is... Taking a lot of heat right now, despite being the number one team in the division. I think there's a lot of haters. I think there's a lot of doubters. We can get into that later.
00:02:37
Speaker 2: But... Well, I think you guys are the most surprising team in the league so far.
00:02:40
Speaker 1: I think you're the most surprising team in the league so far.
00:02:42
Speaker 2: I mean, that was kind of a compliment. Like, who doesn't love a good surprise?
00:02:47
Speaker 1: There was a negative comment, and you know it.
00:02:49
Speaker 2: It was not. I come on here to be friendly. I come on here to see my friends. And you just... You're making it all... real green bay well.
00:02:59
Speaker 1: Let me compliment you i'm surprised i think it's surprising that your team puts their shoes on and takes the field every week the point is zach i i know that wasn't great but you started it the point here zach i started by being nice it was a backhanded compliment and you i come from the state of passive aggressiveness you don't think i understand oh you're the most surprising team in the league isn't that neat You.
00:03:24
Speaker 2: Said that you're catching a lot of heat. So that's because you are surprising. People aren't buying in. I didn't say I wasn't buying in. I was speaking from an NFL perspective.
00:03:34
Speaker 1: Why did your coach go for it on fourth down from his own 20-some yard line in the fourth quarter?
00:03:39
Speaker 2: That was, of all the fourth down calls he's made, that was bizarre. Honestly, the only thing I can think of is that it was, in that first half, LeFleur was just, fourth downing down our throat and uh it was it was a you know bad decision uh but we we pulled it out that was that was rough you've.
00:03:58
Speaker 1: Been coming on here for four or five seasons and every single time you come on here i ask you this question and i am now going to ask it again in the face of that fourth down because you're new to success you're like the family that won the lottery and bought a lake house you didn't inherit the lake house from your banker dad. And I actually think that's admirable. I think that's a likable trait about the Detroit Lions fan base.
00:04:24
Speaker 2: Why are you hitting me with the back of your hand the way that you are? This does not seem complimentary at all.
00:04:30
Speaker 1: But my question is, at what point, and I've asked this over and over again, at what point do you start worrying about the crazy risks and crazy gambles being the thing that ultimately prevents you from getting to where you want to go, which is a Super Bowl and winning a Super Bowl trophy. Because, Zach, I say, you know, as our fan base worries about our offense, the thing about winning a Super Bowl is you have to succeed minimum against three really good teams in a row, if not four.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: Well, neither of us really know what it takes to win a Super Bowl.
00:05:09
Speaker 1: I understand that, but I'm asking you, where has your worry meter grown to or has it stayed the same like where are you at in terms of this like do i believe dan campbell can three or four games in a row against the best teams in the league not go for on fourth down when he should take field goals and not go for it from zone 20 like has that is this more alarming to you than it's ever been or are you.
00:05:35
Speaker 2: Just still riding high Well, I think you're looking at just one side of the coin. There have been plenty of times where he's settled for field goals in ranges that he would have gone for it. Obviously, the fourth down call against Green Bay at the 20, that's something people are going to notice, something people are going to see. I'm not worried about it until it costs us something.
00:05:59
Speaker 1: But it did already. It's something big. It did already.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: What?
00:06:01
Speaker 1: It cost you the game against the Packers in the playoffs that you should have won. It did cost you that game. He went for it on two fourth downs when he should have kicked field goals a couple years ago in the playoffs.
00:06:12
Speaker 2: I don't know that we played. We didn't lose to the Packers in the playoffs.
00:06:15
Speaker 1: Who was it against? It doesn't matter. Who was he playing against?
00:06:17
Speaker 2: It does matter. I don't want you coming out saying that we lost to the Packers.
00:06:21
Speaker 1: Oh, sorry. I slipped up. You're the greatest at it. It was the NFC Championship game. The 49ers. 49ers.
00:06:29
Speaker 2: And that was more than his fourth down calls. That was what was.
00:06:32
Speaker 1: More than something, but the something still makes.
00:06:35
Speaker 2: Up the everything. That's why I'm not worried about it. The greatest risk, the thing that cost us that NFC championship, and the same thing that is costing us games this year is our defense. That is my worry. Our defense over. Oh, my God. You're not looking at the numbers, dude.
00:06:53
Speaker 1: I never look at the numbers. I never look at the numbers.
00:06:55
Speaker 2: Our defense was statistically worse than our 0-16 team up until Arizona. We didn't win a game. And the defense that we are out now with 3-2 was worse than that. Thank God our offense is, you know, putting up points and getting yards and doing what they got to do. But, yeah, the defense is historically bad. It was historically bad coming into the Arizona game. I don't know where it stands overall in the annals of history, but the defense is bad. Don't you come at me telling me that.
00:07:26
Speaker 1: I think your defense, it doesn't matter how bad they are. You kick those field goals, you'd have won the NFC Championship game. But let's go here.
00:07:33
Speaker 2: We blew a multiple touchdown lead in the second half.
00:07:38
Speaker 1: And it could have been multiple touchdowns and two more field goals. It's very interesting what our two fan bases are going through because you have one of the top, if not the top offenses in the league.
00:07:50
Speaker 2: Right.
00:07:51
Speaker 1: And a defense that everybody's worried about. And we have the number one defense in the league and an offense that everybody's worried about. No, by the way, we have a really good special teams unit. It's I will say I'm curious how it's being received in your fan base, because I think defensive football and and like because the one thing you can say about the offense, they're not turning the ball over. They're number one in turnover differential and they're number two in clock control, time of possession. That is a real metric, but it's just not pretty. And I think that is alarming to people and maybe justifiably so. But what is the vibe? Are people as worried in Detroit about the defense as people all here seem to be about the offense? Because I have this theory. I think other people in town here have it too. It's like, If we had the number one offense and a defense that was struggling, I think you'd have less angst.
00:08:48
Speaker 2: Well, based on the numbers that I was just referencing, if you skipped forward, go ahead and skip back and you'll hear exactly what I was talking about. But I think that the worry on the defense here, especially in those first three weeks, was... I mean, I can't remember being more worried about anything.
00:09:08
Speaker 1: Okay. It was bad. I mean, we had.
00:09:11
Speaker 2: that whole Terry on Arnold situation, which is just, I don't even want to get into it. Brian branches back. And I think that made a difference. You could definitely feel his presence against screen Bay. It is not the sky is falling anymore, but if you looked up to the sky right now, there'd still be some cracks.
00:09:27
Speaker 1: Another thing you were really confident about over the past few years that hasn't really come home to roost. And I don't want to say this before the Vikings play you guys. And then it burns me. You're going to, I'm going to cushion it. You and I both sat here and thought, oh, like you thought, yay. And I thought, oh, no, the Lions have Jamison Williams. And man, like, I'm not saying he hasn't put up good numbers and he hasn't been a valuable football player. But I was worried when you guys got that guy that he was a dominate the division, like winner. 1B to Justin Jefferson type guy. And I think you thought that too. Where are we at in the Jamison Williams experience?
00:10:09
Speaker 2: First three games were disappointing. But in these last two games, I'd encourage you to take a look at the numbers. Jamison Williams has seemingly pulled it together. He has He has brought in a lot of balls and he has racked up a lot of yards. Two touchdowns and three touchdowns in the last three games. Over 100 against Arizona. 91, I think, against Green Bay. Lots of targets. Jared Goff definitely trusts him. I'm still all in on James. And a guy that is built like him, that's like a string bean that's supposed to be speed and everything. He's out there throwing blocks. He does what he's supposed to do. I love him. I love him.
00:10:50
Speaker 1: It will be really fascinating because a lot of the critique that the Vikings are getting is you haven't played anybody worth anything. because even the two teams you played, the Packers did not have Micah Parsons or their running back. And when you played the Bears, it was a rain game that neutralized everything. And so I think everybody's looking at this next four game stretch where you have Lions into Bills into Niners in Mexico, and then the Packers or vice versa on those two. They're like, oh, now, now not only are we going to find out about the team, but I think you even feel it nationally. Like, let's see what it looks like. But I think a lot of people, when they think about that, are thinking Bills and Niners, but you guys are the real test. With the numbers that you guys are putting up with the way Jameer is playing, I think you guys are the real litmus test here. What are you thinking going into this game when your offense meets this defense?
00:11:51
Speaker 2: I mean, I was thinking about it today. I'm really looking forward to it. It's going to be a good test. We have our starting line and I mean, before he came back, Cade Mays, he's our starting center. Juice Scruggs was as far as the numbers go, so I wouldn't expect you to know anything about it. The best center in the league. So we've got a good line, and I'm curious to see how it all gels, particularly with Blake Miller at right tackle. with the blitz schemes that Brian Flores does. He brings it in from everywhere. I'm a little less concerned than I would be if our skill positions didn't block the way that they do. I mean, you should see some of these blocks that Jameer Gibbs is putting up. He is, I mean, he's not pancaking anyone, but he's not being pancaked. You know, he's... That guy doesn't get enough credit for how tough he is. I think... You know what it's going to be? It's going to calm anyone's nerves on what Drew Petzig can do as an offensive coordinator. Because this is one mind going against another great mind in Brian Flores. And I think this is a big game for our offensive coordinator. I think this is a big game to make Detroit feel, forget about Ben Johnson in a sense.
00:13:03
Speaker 1: I think it will be, it will be, you will never forget it. What do you mean? Forget about Ben Johnson. He went and has the most talented quarterback in the NFL, sans my homes. And even then some of these throws that Caleb throws, you're like, Oh boy. And they're doing what I, I don't know. You're never going to forget this. That's like saying like, that's like saying a good defensive coordinator. You'll forget all about the fact that you had Mike Tomlin. No, we won't. We had Mike Tomlin.
00:13:29
Speaker 2: If you want to make this a Bears podcast, we absolutely can. I'll tell you all the problems. This crap that he's pulling out there as a head coach, I don't think it's going to work out.
00:13:38
Speaker 1: It's clearly already working out.
00:13:40
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily working out. I mean, they haven't won anything.
00:13:44
Speaker 1: They have won as much as you've won and more in one season.
00:13:48
Speaker 2: Not true.
00:13:48
Speaker 1: How far did they go last year? They went to the second round.
00:13:52
Speaker 2: The second round.
00:13:52
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good. I mean, how far did you guys go last year?
00:13:54
Speaker 2: Do you want to take that? The year before?
00:13:56
Speaker 1: How far did you guys go last year? Last year, how far did you guys go?
00:13:59
Speaker 2: We're... Now you're... You're... I just.
00:14:02
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Constructing little narratives. I'm not constructing narratives. I just don't think you can be a grown-up.
00:14:08
Speaker 2: You're changing.
00:14:09
Speaker 1: Let me throw this at you. And by the way, Drew Petskin was on our team first. It doesn't matter. Let me... Let me.
00:14:14
Speaker 2: Maybe I won't forget if you're remembering Drew Petskin was a position coach for you.
00:14:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm a grown-up. I know who's on my team, Zach. Well, you'd be.
00:14:21
Speaker 2: Surprised how many people don't.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you right now. You could... No one's watching. No one's listening. You get to make this decision in the darkness. And somebody goes, right now, moving forward without any hurt feelings because Dan Campbell would go get another great job and be happy and everything would be great somewhere else. You can continue down the path you're on or you can just flip flop and Ben Johnson is your head coach. What are you doing?
00:14:46
Speaker 2: I'm taking Dan Campbell.
00:14:48
Speaker 1: You're a crazy person. I think Campbell's great. I just think, here's what I think of.
00:14:55
Speaker 2: What I want from my head coach is a guy that guys will play for. Not a guy that people, no one is going around saying, you know, Dan, I don't like what he's doing. I don't like how this is this or that or anything. I want my coordinators to be, I want that side of the ball to love them. I want them to be knowledgeable. I want what Dan Campbell is, and he's a leader of people.
00:15:15
Speaker 1: I think Dan Campbell is great. I've been saying that for years. But you started this conversation by undermining Ben Johnson.
00:15:24
Speaker 2: I didn't undermine anything.
00:15:25
Speaker 1: You undermined him.
00:15:27
Speaker 2: I did not.
00:15:28
Speaker 1: I just think it's sour grapes. I think the grapes are so sour that your lips are stuck inward. Like, I just... You're coming at.
00:15:37
Speaker 2: Me with more heat than you've ever come at me on this podcast, and I think you're afraid about Sunday. I think you're pretty, pretty scared, all right? You are showing right now as my favorite and something that I know about from my past years as a Lions fan. You're coming at me as a fan who's scared.
00:15:55
Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, I'm not scared. Second of all, it's called I'm Worried, Zach, and it's not new to this week. I'm always worried. Listen to me.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: Confidence, Cy. Confidence is a much better color on you, Cy. I mean, you want to call me sour grapes? You got bitter cherries over there.
00:16:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was born with bitter cherries.
00:16:16
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that. We've had some lovely conversations. Very jovial, very elevating. You're not always bitter.
00:16:24
Speaker 1: Not about football.
00:16:26
Speaker 2: Don't let him fool you. He's a sweetheart. He is a friggin' sweetheart.
00:16:30
Speaker 1: Listen to me. I'm not worried. I'm actually I think there's a lot of people nationally, locally, media who are like they're worried about this stretch. I'm not worried about it at all. Now, does that mean I'm confident that we're going to run through these teams? I just think it's fun. I think before, I think people are forgetting. Like if you'd have told everyone, hey, before the season starts, you're 6-0. You're second in the league in time of possession. You're first in the league in turnover margin. You have the best defense in the league. You have potentially the best special teams in the league. And the offense just is not figuring it out. But you are 6-0 and you're about to face all these great teams. Would you sign up for that? every fan signs up for that and it wouldn't like what what given the expectations going into the year and how strong the division is I think it's going to I think everybody also assumes that what has happened in every game is automatically going to be the game flow of this game and they're never going to figure it out and I don't know man I'm not a football coach I never played but I do I do think it is going to be really fun to see how the defense stacks up and there is some element of when you need it, right? Because I think right now this defense and special teams have been so good that as the offense figures it out, there's a part of like, Hey, control the clock, control the ball. Don't lose it. And let, let these power units do their job. And let's, let's work as a three phase football team. Now, if you go into Detroit and, and you fall down 14 points and all of a sudden you need, or, or they score first or whatever the situation may be, you know, urgency sometimes lets you throw a little caution to the wind and perhaps some caution to the wind, uh, sets the sale a little bit. And I just, I think everybody thinks exactly what you've seen so far is exactly what you're going to see these next four games, only it's better teams. And perhaps that is the case. But I'm not going to be there until I see it. Because there's too many good football players on that side of the ball. The head coach is on that side of the ball. He's always been good. I just think there's too much over there to assume that we can't get going the right direction in some important games.
00:18:57
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you feel that way. What do you want me to say?
00:19:01
Speaker 1: I'm just responding to your accusation of me being scared.
00:19:05
Speaker 2: Oh, we went back. We went all the way back to that.
00:19:07
Speaker 1: You just, it was like 45 seconds ago, a minute and a half ago at most.
00:19:10
Speaker 2: 45 seconds ago. You're now, these, I don't know if these bitter grapes have turned fermented in some way because now you're talking drunk. 45 seconds. What is happening, Cy?
00:19:22
Speaker 1: I just think, I think it is also, Such a like because everybody's looking forward to the Bills, the Niners, the Packers. There's a Bears game to end the season. I know you guys have big games coming up. This is quietly an exceptionally pivotal game for both teams.
00:19:41
Speaker 2: 100 percent. Like you said earlier, you've got the best defense going against potentially the best offense. And um it's a division game you've already won two division games that's what i'm saying one division game but we've won it i mean this is for this is a big swing in the division as far as uh as far as standings go and and and and what it looks like moving forward It's a huge game. It's a huge game.
00:20:06
Speaker 1: Also, just in each of these teams' individual paths, I think the Vikings, in theory, could more handle the adversity of a loss because you only moved to 6-1. But the upside for them with a win is 7-0 and 3-0 in the division, which is wild. That is a wild start to the season.
00:20:24
Speaker 2: That's fantastic, yeah.
00:20:26
Speaker 1: The upside for the Lions is beating the top team currently in the division... boosting yourself. The downside, if you drop this game, because who do you have after us? Who are the next couple games?
00:20:38
Speaker 2: After you, next week we have Miami on Monday night, and then I believe it's the Germany game.
00:20:43
Speaker 1: And then... Where do you guys got in Germany? New England. That's a tough game. If you drop this one, you're now a game away, a mistake away from 500 in an NFC that projects to be because of the north and the west pretty top heavy i mean you can see a situation where it is 10 and 7 is the worst team that gets in from a wild card standpoint if not 11 and 6 i mean this maybe it doesn't land there but this thing could really go off to the races so I think a lot to gain for the Vikings, a lot to gain for the Lions, but also a significant amount to lose for the Lions.
00:21:25
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a significant amount to lose for the Vikings as well, because if you do drop this game against, as you put it, the team that no one cares about going into as far as, you know, you got Buffalo coming in, you got Green Bay coming in, you got all these good games coming up, and these are your first big tests. If you drop the one that nobody is adding to that list... that could affect some transition. You could have a, that could be the beginning of a four games, four game drop. Now, all of a sudden you're, you're six and four.
00:21:53
Speaker 1: I think one thing we can agree on Zach is locker rooms are interesting places. They're weird. They're unique. Like, I think I've talked about this a lot on this show and other shows, the cliches that come out of locker rooms is we make fun of them a lot, but I think ultimately the, Some of it is media speak, but some of it is believed. You know, like when you hear a team go, nobody believed in this. It's like, well, you were picked to finish first in your division. So yeah, it's like it's not crazy. You're holding a trophy right now. But I do think those places are their own culture, their own like almost like a bomb shelter from the world. And this really unique thing happens. We saw it a couple of years ago when they were winning all those one possession games when Kirk was the quarterback. When you start doing a thing and then it happens a few times and you start believing that that's what's going to happen, any sport, right? It just compiles and you start to believe that's who you are. So the other thing that the Vikings have at stake here that they could gain or let float by is they've kind of won ugly in a lot of people's eyes through these first six games. Like if you go... beat Detroit by whatever means you have a big kick return the defense gets a couple turnovers the offense squeaks a couple drives through like you win like that again and then you get to play the bills and hell something crazy like you win that one as well and now all of a sudden you're eight no everybody in that locker room looks around and goes well this is how it works And then all of a sudden you're in December and January and you're looking around. It doesn't matter who's on the other side of the field and that you're down six in the fourth quarter. You go, well, this is what we do. We're comfortable in this place. And I think there has to be a little credit, you know, despite the people putting the Vikings 10th and 11th on their power rankings across the national media. There has to be a little credit given to this team's ability to like, no matter who you're playing, oh, you're down seven in the fourth quarter. Oh, you're down 20 against the Packers. Oh, it's not going the right way and you need a goal line stop. Like, I do think that could snowball.
00:24:05
Speaker 2: Yes, but on the flip side, you lose to Detroit, you lose to Buffalo. They're looking around and they're like, oh my gosh, we're playing good teams. This is who we are. Yeah, sure.
00:24:13
Speaker 1: That's the other side of it, Zach.
00:24:18
Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure that was out there.
00:24:20
Speaker 1: I understand how I just I.
00:24:22
Speaker 2: Just I just wanted to make sure that was out there. So everybody knew that like forever, you know, I just want I'm the other side of the coin. I'm that beautiful bird on the back of a quarter, baby.
00:24:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. Are you saying that because the bird has a short memory and you want to be the guy who forgets about Ben Johnson on your team? What do you mean by bird? What's the bird metaphor?
00:24:42
Speaker 2: George Washington is on one side.
00:24:43
Speaker 1: I understand. I just wanted to bring Ben Johnson back up. Tell me.
00:24:48
Speaker 2: I picked tails because Lions have tails. And if the Vikings had tails, they would tag it between their legs and run home before they even get to Detroit.
00:24:57
Speaker 1: The Vikings defense.
00:24:58
Speaker 2: Because they're scared, just like you.
00:25:00
Speaker 1: Have given up three points in the fourth quarter this year.
00:25:03
Speaker 2: Three points.
00:25:05
Speaker 1: KG, Kevin Garnett once famously said, come fourth quarter, bring it to the ticket. Something like that. I'm probably butchering it. But that feels right. And.
00:25:16
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:25:17
Speaker 1: Get this football team to a fourth quarter. Let the offense roll a little bit and get this football team to a fourth quarter and let's see what happens.
00:25:26
Speaker 2: I mean, that's when the offense... The second half is when the Lions' offense is also the best. That's when we're putting up the most points.
00:25:31
Speaker 1: Okay, well, bring the heat. Let's see what happens.
00:25:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you bring the heat. You bring the heat.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: I have the heat. I'm... Clearly ready to give you some of the heat. We'll do two versions of this. The first one, if the Lions.
00:25:46
Speaker 2: Both sides of the coin.
00:25:48
Speaker 1: If the Lions... You are a bird brain. If the Lions win this Sunday, it will look like what?
00:25:59
Speaker 2: As far as how the game goes?
00:26:00
Speaker 1: When the game's over, what will be the story of the game? If the Lions have won, why will they have won?
00:26:06
Speaker 2: The story of the game is one unit, either your offense or our defense, is going to outperform expectation. I think that both our offense and your defense is coming ready to play because that's what we're going to put the chips in with always is our offense. And you guys are going to do the same with your defense. They're coming prepared to play. Whoever wins this game, it is going to be because our defense continues to improve as it has, or as you put it, your offense squeaks out some drives and gets it done, which I don't think is going to happen. I, yeah, the other interesting factor is the special teams. Mm-hmm.
00:26:54
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys had an, I believe it was an old Viking, DJ Wanam, who saved Dan Campbell from a press nightmare with that fingertip on the football. Was that DJ Wanam?
00:27:04
Speaker 2: It was DJ Wanam.
00:27:05
Speaker 1: DJ Wanam!
00:27:08
Speaker 2: He's been so good.
00:27:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:27:10
Speaker 2: He's been outstanding.
00:27:13
Speaker 1: I have this habit of remembering who was on my team. I remember who was on my team. I do understand who used to be on my team.
00:27:19
Speaker 2: I remember who was on your team, too. I know a lot about the Vikings.
00:27:22
Speaker 1: I think there's a chance.
00:27:23
Speaker 2: I remember who's in my division because I'm a fan. I know who's, I know what the enemy is. I know exactly what's supposed to be going on.
00:27:32
Speaker 1: I think to your point, your face is too close to the camera and I hate it. I think there is a possibility that it is co-neutralization. It's neutralization across the board. And the defining factor is the special teams.
00:27:54
Speaker 2: Sure.
00:27:55
Speaker 1: And if the defining factor... That's how a vote goes.
00:27:58
Speaker 2: If you have three sections, the best two win. That's how it goes.
00:28:02
Speaker 1: And then I'm feeling pretty good. We got the best kicker in the league. We got the best return man in the league. We might have a pro bowler just from being a blocker on kick coverage. This DJ Dallas dude, unbelievable. He is unbelievable. Yeah. So this special teams group, if it comes down to special teams group, I'm pushing my chips in on our football team.
00:28:27
Speaker 2: I hope you do, because I'll push my chips in against that all day long.
00:28:30
Speaker 1: On your special teams unit?
00:28:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will. I think you can say you have the best kicker in the league.
00:28:37
Speaker 1: We do have the best kicker in the league.
00:28:38
Speaker 2: We have the biggest, biggest, most consistent leg in the league.
00:28:43
Speaker 1: I don't even think that's right.
00:28:44
Speaker 2: Of course you don't, because all you see is purple and yellow. You're like... You see Fry Kids from McDonald's. Just those purple and yellow mops everywhere. Rah, rah, rah.
00:28:53
Speaker 1: Who's going to win this division?
00:28:55
Speaker 2: The Lions.
00:28:56
Speaker 1: The Lions. You're certain of that?
00:28:58
Speaker 2: I push my chips in on it, yeah. I already have.
00:29:01
Speaker 1: You believe that... It is really weird that all of these fan bases have their hopes built into this. We're like... And it's not like one of the groups is aging out. That's kind of the super... special part of it. Jordan Love is young. That defense is really young over there. They have a young coach. Jared Goff is still in his prime. Jameer Gibbs is really young. The wide receivers are young. Amon Ra is young. The defense is not great or even good, but they're young, right? Dan Campbell is not. an elder coach.
00:29:36
Speaker 2: We've got three levels. We've got building blocks on all three levels.
00:29:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm saying you're young. This isn't a new thing. It's not like you're at the end of the run. This isn't Brett Favre throwing the interception against the Giants and everybody's like, well, that was kind of it. Or Aaron Rodgers and Devontae Adams texting about the last dance. The Bears, Ben Johnson, all these young players, Caleb Williams is just coming into his prime. And over on this side of the ball, I mean, you have, you know, Jefferson's in his prime. Addison's young. You know, Hawkinson's older, but the O-line is youngish, primish for the most part. A couple elder statesmen. The defense is so young. They are so, so young. And the special teams is incredibly young.
00:30:16
Speaker 2: What's your contract situation like?
00:30:19
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know stuff like that. You know who's on your team, but not how long. You mean like my personal contract to do this show? I got to tell you, it's not good enough to go through this conversation. More than two times. We can't play each other in the playoffs, I can tell you that much. I'm going to need a new contract situation. It's just fascinating because lost in the who's going to come out of potentially the best division in football this year with how competitive this could be, it's also like, oh, they're all just getting started. What is this going to look like for the next few years? It's pretty unusual.
00:30:53
Speaker 2: I would agree. It's certainly unusual, but that, you know, to be the best division in football and to have every divisional game feel like a playoff game going in. Now, if it goes that way during whatever, but going into the game, it feels like this is a playoff game. I love that. I love that. I love the competition of it. I love.
00:31:17
Speaker 1: And you now know, you now can draw that comparison because you guys have been in the playoffs.
00:31:23
Speaker 2: Twice.
00:31:24
Speaker 1: Twice. Pretty big deal.
00:31:27
Speaker 2: And you know what? You know what I love about the Vikings? And I just, it's that we can relate over it is as far as this best division in football goes, we're the only two teams who don't have a Lombardi.
00:31:38
Speaker 1: That's true. I don't, I mean, I think we've had walked different paths just to be fair.
00:31:43
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're in Minneapolis.
00:31:45
Speaker 1: We're in Detroit. They're, they're going to be different paths. I mean, you've won almost nothing for the entirety of your entire history. You even told me you think the franchise was probably cursed and, You know, we did.
00:31:55
Speaker 2: I didn't say that it was cursed. I simply told you about the curse. And, you know.
00:32:01
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of saying you're cursed.
00:32:04
Speaker 2: We won world championships. We have never won a Super Bowl, but there are championship banners in our stadium.
00:32:10
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be fun if the whole division goes to the playoffs?
00:32:15
Speaker 2: Has that ever happened? Can that happen?
00:32:17
Speaker 1: It's never happened. Not in this realignment. I do not believe it's ever happened. You know, and I think with the way you beat each other up, it would be pretty hard because, you know, with the Rams starting the way they started, it's more possible. But that Quentin Nelson going to the Seahawks and the way they looked against the Chiefs, I really don't see them losing less than 11 games or winning less than 11 games.
00:32:45
Speaker 2: They're bringing back all their backs and everything. I mean, Quentin Nelson's going to open some holes. Yeah, they're going to be a good team.
00:32:50
Speaker 1: I don't know how the math works out, but, yeah, I mean, if every one of these teams gets in, which is, I believe, a mathematical potential, like, it can happen. How fun would it be if they all get in, and then the two that, you know, they all kind of get through, and they're the four teams left in the division? That, to me, what a fun football thing that would be.
00:33:15
Speaker 2: Oh, let's all get together on Lake Michigan and just watch it. Neutral ground.
00:33:21
Speaker 1: That's not, it's literally called Lake Michigan. That's not, I know it touches the other state, but it's not, that's not neutral grounds. Listen, I'm not, I'm not convinced it's going to be Lake Michigan when it gets there. I'd love it to be Lake Minnesota. Is that what we're doing? Sign me up. Zach, why don't you, why don't you go add a couple of your tears to the shores of Lake Minnesota after this Sunday's game? Because I know you're worried and I know you want to squeeze a few out.
00:33:45
Speaker 2: Why do you want more lakes when the land of 10,000 lakes is so clearly majority man-made lakes?
00:33:53
Speaker 1: They're not. If the man is Paul Bunyan. That's not a man.
00:33:59
Speaker 2: That's a mythological figure. You're going to tell me Babe the Blue Oxen.
00:34:03
Speaker 1: It's his footprints. That's what created the lakes. He's not that big. They're not man-made lakes.
00:34:11
Speaker 2: DeForest Buckner just got traded to the 49ers.
00:34:13
Speaker 1: You're a buffoon. That sucked. I shouldn't have called you a buffoon. But I just didn't like the man-made lakes thing. You can talk a lot of trash, Zach, but it's just like us. You lay off our lakes and I'll lay off your cars that are on fire on a regular street that nobody lives on. We stay out of what each other is known for, okay?
00:34:32
Speaker 2: I mean, that's more of a how people take care of their things.
00:34:35
Speaker 1: You lay off our lakes and I'll lay off... I'm going to let it go. I'm going to let it go. I'm going to let it go. contractually, I'm going to let it go.
00:34:46
Speaker 2: Well, you know what? You've got plenty of options to go fill those with tears.
00:34:48
Speaker 1: Enjoy your spaghetti sandwiches.
00:34:51
Speaker 2: I care about you. Have you had?
00:34:53
Speaker 1: No, I haven't had a spaghetti sandwich. I used to put spaghetti on the garlic toast and then bite the garlic toast.
00:34:58
Speaker 2: Yes, that's very good. That's very good. But I'll tell you, you put some spaghetti on like Wonder Bread or a soft white bread, it's real good.
00:35:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, does it just taste like bread and spaghetti at the same time? It's not like a heat.
00:35:10
Speaker 2: You know what?
00:35:10
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm I don't know what this energy is, Zach. I think you're right. I think I am a little keyed up. What's the score going to be, Zach Martina?
00:35:20
Speaker 2: Well, you will first because you're away and I think that you should and then I will end. Oh, guests first.
00:35:28
Speaker 1: We're a polite show. We like to have the guests go first.
00:35:30
Speaker 2: Well, technically, you're going to be the guests in our house.
00:35:33
Speaker 1: I understand, but this show is my house and you're in my house and you're the guests, so guests first.
00:35:40
Speaker 2: Oh, boy. Well, I do think it's going to be a historic game. I do think it's going to be historic in that the Lions put up 56, and for the first time in history, Minnesota will get negative points.
00:35:55
Speaker 1: I'm going to refrain from making a prediction. I just think it's unbecoming.
00:36:01
Speaker 2: Go back to the archives.
00:36:04
Speaker 1: Zach, I love you a lot.
00:36:05
Speaker 2: I love you too, buddy.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing the show. I will not be speaking to you on Sunday. And, uh, I just, here's the thing. I wanted to text you during that Dan Campbell thing, but if somebody would text me during that, like, and I wasn't even going to like make fun of you. I was just going to be like, what is going on here? But if somebody would.
00:36:22
Speaker 2: Exactly the question that was going on in my house, my wife and I were like, what? He's at the 20. What's what's going on.
00:36:27
Speaker 1: If somebody would have, if he would have made it, would you have still thought it was a bad decision? Yeah. Okay. Well, at least, at least you're not like, you don't have some weird football Stockholm syndrome.
00:36:40
Speaker 2: No, that would have been that. That was just a bad call. The game wasn't on the line. It wasn't like you got to go or you're going to win. Like you're going to lose that. That call was that was rough.
00:36:51
Speaker 1: Well, I respect and appreciate you will speak after the game is over and after all the emotions have come and gone because I'm not a big trash talk guy.
00:36:59
Speaker 2: Do you want to you just listen to this episode? And you tell me you're not a trash talker.
00:37:04
Speaker 1: I'm not like, here's the thing. I don't mind a little trash talk going into it. I just don't like reveling in other people's disappointment. That's not fun.
00:37:12
Speaker 2: Karmically, I don't believe in it either.
00:37:14
Speaker 1: I think that. It's not fun. I think we all want our team to win. And I like if my team loses, I'm bummed. And that is that sucks enough. I don't need somebody to come in and go. It's not fun.
00:37:26
Speaker 2: People that talk trash to traditionally and historically cannot take being talked trash to the best trash talkers cannot take it.
00:37:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also traditionally the best trash talkers are not fulfilled as human beings emotionally. So I don't want to do that. I hope we win. I hope you don't win. I hope it's fun for me and I'm not going to pile on you. The best of luck to.
00:37:51
Speaker 2: Everything you said, but the opposite for me.
00:37:53
Speaker 1: Okay, well... Thank you, Zach Martina, for joining us. Hey, and thank you to all you guys for listening to our podcast feed. While you're here, make sure you give us a good review. Sure would help us out a lot. Finally, a huge shout out to Ticketmaster, the official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings, for helping make this show happen. Enjoy the game, everybody.
