WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important that we ourselves as parents and that we help our kids to be able to navigate the whole world of your feelings.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, can you identify what you're feeling?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Can you have some self compassion for yourself when you're struggling with some uncomfortable feelings?
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[SPEAKER_00]: can you express them rather than act them out?
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[SPEAKER_00]: If we're not aware of what we're feeling and can't do any processing of it in a healthy way, we tend to just act it out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We, for angry, we might hurt others and lash out at others, or if we're sad, we might withdraw in some unhealthy ways.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So just helping kids to be able to and ourselves to be able to deal with our own emotions in a way that they're a source of valuable information and the enrich our lives.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't have to be afraid of them, but we also don't have to be overly controlled by them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is Diane Bowden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: In today's conversation, I'm joined by Clinical Psychologist and Stanford, a junked facility member, Dr. Celeste Berkhafer, for a conversation about a powerful truth.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The mental health your child will have as an adult is being shaped right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But this isn't about perfect parenting.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's about understanding the everyday experiences and relationships that help children develop
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[SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Berkoffer walks us through five essentials for long-term mental health.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We also explore what good enough parenting looks like and why children need opportunities to struggle.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Building tolerance from boredom, frustration and discomfort, how parenting strategies may need to shift for children with ADHD.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and much, much more, but quickly before we get there, if you've been enjoying the content here on the minimalist mom's podcast, be sure to hit five stars and leave a rating and review.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the best ways you can support the show.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And as always, say to you guys, I know there's so much content you can be consuming, so it doesn't go unnoticed that you continue to show up listening to the minimalist mom's podcast week after week.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being here, and I hope this episode is helpful to you today as I know it was for me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So with that said, let's get into the conversation with Dr.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into it, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the listeners?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I see.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm on the adjunct clinical faculty at Stanford.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I help train the psychiatry residents and I am an author of a new book that's coming out September 1, called Beyond Quick Fixes, a sexual ingredients for better mental health and if a filling life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think I want to stay here here at the beginning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about the idea of quick fixes and why in our culture, especially it feels like we're drawn to quick fixes for not just our health, but like in our homes or in our relationships.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm curious just to know here from the beginning, why you think that we are drawn to quick fixes, especially when it comes to our mental health.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think the reason is that it's human nature to not want to be in pain and to want to feel happy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and we have available to us in our current culture, so many different ways that you can get a kind of a quick high.
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[SPEAKER_00]: feel good or a quick escape from something that is causing you pain.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so part of having better mental health actually is finding healthier ways to take care of both of those needs.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so it's we come by it honestly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're not just out trying to cause havoc, you know, wrap our lives, but it's like there are a lot of unhealthy, easily available things that we can do
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[SPEAKER_00]: to begin either feel better or get out of pain kind of as quick as possible that don't really serve us in the long run.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, they keep us on that dopamine cycle where I think that's where it gets at a hand because people are looking for a little bit of dopamine but then it needs to be far greater each time and then that's where I feel like we can get into really bad habits.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely and I'm you know, I want to make clear then I'm not against quick fixes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I use some myself like I love to watch a little Netflix TV show or something at the end of the day Some you might call that kind of a quick fix, but it's like, you know, but there are some that are healthier than others like another example of a more obvious not a healthy quick fix is drinking too much alcohol
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[SPEAKER_00]: or using too many drugs or developing a compulsive shopping at kind of addiction because that's kind of easy to do as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So there's you know I'm I'm there are times when it's important to have a way to go and just get a quick
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[SPEAKER_00]: dose of feeling good and, you know, having bringing some pleasure into your life, you know, getting a break from the things that are hard until you can go back and revisit it and deal with it more constructively.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But what you just have to be careful about is your tendencies and your habits, or you know, you don't want to solely be relying on these kind of
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[SPEAKER_00]: quick fixes and not developing yourself as a person and internal resources that will help you just deal with life more effectively and be able to create fulfillment and not get yourself into trouble.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I like that you mentioned that you will at the end of the day occasionally, maybe every day too.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Watch Netflix or watch a show to decompress and yes, it adds to dopamine.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But it seems like it's an intentional choice on your part.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And on the minimalist mum's podcast, we do talk about intentional living.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that is key to sustainability when it comes to fixing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the root cause of our issue.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if you'd like to speak to that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like how can we get to the root causes to sustainably have healthy long-term while being?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think in a way this, I mean, the book that I wrote, I hopefully will help people to be better informed about, you know, what are the things that are, I end up talking about five essential things to make sure you're developing within yourself so that you have, like a sturdier foundation from which to live your life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And,
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to say more about those.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I really like what you're asking, you're mentioning about intentionality.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that is so critical on its great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What you two on your show is to help people, all of us live with more intention to slow down a little bit and really decide what are our values, what really matters most, what's really going to help us create the life that we long for ourselves and help for ourselves.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then involves making a lot of choices
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[SPEAKER_00]: saying no to more things, being more selective about how we spread, how often we spread ourselves.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And there's just again, we live in a world that's just full of abundance of all kinds of abundance of good and unhealthy things.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have to be thoughtful about not letting ourselves get totally knocked around by just the whims or this or that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's end to
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[SPEAKER_00]: And to just periodically be checking in on ourselves to say, is this really important to me?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is this really how I want to be using my time?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is this choice?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it will feel good right now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll have very much regret about it, you know, two weeks from now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of a thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So...
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and you mentioned the five essential ingredients that you have.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I would love for you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to go into too much depth because I want to save some mystery for your book.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, if you want to highlight maybe at one point of each of those five, I'd love for you to do that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, and the thing I would also say, especially since this podcast for a lot of moms, is that what's really important is to remember as a parent that
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[SPEAKER_00]: that you taking care of your own mental health and well-being is really good for your children.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you become a role model and you're also better equipped to deal with the hard parts about being a parent.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's stressful.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I raised two children too, and so I know that that there's a lot of demands on us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So these five things apply to you and then there are also things to keep in mind for what you want to be helping your child develop.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so the first one
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[SPEAKER_00]: And a healthy sense of self is a little more than just good self esteem.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's important to have our kids help our kids really have self worth and to understand that they're worthy of love and respect, and we want them to feel proud of themselves and good about the skills they're developing and things like that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We also want to teach them agency, so a healthy sense of self includes really feeling like you have the power to impact your own life, you know, to kind of direct it in certain ways.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So those are like some, there's other things about a healthy sense of self, but that's a little example of and it's built on, you know, helping them to
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[SPEAKER_00]: have positive regard for themselves, but also be humble, you know, to know that we're all in perfect too, you know, so that and to not overly praise our kids for just accomplishments, but to really call attention to like when they're kind to others, or when they really put effort forth for something and they worked hard, like to to notice that, and more than
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you got another A, or something, something of the sort.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're really reinforcing the goodness of who they're becoming.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The second thing is emotional intelligence.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important that we ourselves as parents and that we help our kids to be able to navigate the whole world of your feelings.
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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, can you identify what you're feeling?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Can you have some self-compassion for yourself when you're struggling with some uncomfortable feelings?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Can you express them and rather than act them out?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if we don't, if we're not aware of what we're feeling and can't do any processing of it in a healthy way, we tend to just act it out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We, for angry, we might hurt others and lash out at others, or
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, if we're sad, we might withdraw in some unhealthy ways.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So just helping kids to be able to, and ourselves to be able to, you know, deal with our own emotions in a way that they're a source of valuable information and they enrich our lives and we don't have to be afraid of them, but we also don't have to be overly controlled by them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's mental capacities, I would say summarize that as more about just being self-aware and insightful and mindful being able to pause to help yourself slow yourself down when you can tell that you're in a kind of agitated difficult state or you're feeling reactive so kind of slow down and think whoa what's going on here for me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What do I need to be aware of what insight could I have?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's all things about developing good judgment and
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[SPEAKER_00]: and then relationships skills is the fourth thing that's really important.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like how do we, you know, the research shows strongly that having good quality relationships is highly correlated with living a good satisfying life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to be able to develop things that help us get along well with others.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that includes things like being able to have empathy or have mutual respect to know that you're also an individual with your own needs and desires as am I and we have to have a healthy way to kind of talk about that when our needs might be clashing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Communication skills, teaching our kids and ourselves how to find that sweet spot of being assertive with what we need and want.
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[SPEAKER_00]: not be too aggressive about it and not be too passive, where we're never advocating for ourselves.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the last category and in a resource you want to develop is effective coping strategies.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of related to what we started talking about with quick fixes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, do you have, I would say that the hallmark of effective coping is really having good attitudes,
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[SPEAKER_00]: and a willingness to really solve problem-solve issues.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So the attitude I like to summarize as I can deal with hard things, like we want to teach ourselves in our kids, like life can be hard at times.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just there's no way around it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so you want to really believe like, okay, it's hard, you want to have some self-compassion for yourself when it's difficult.
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[SPEAKER_00]: but you want to think, okay, but what can I do to try to make this situation or this moment a little less painful than it is for me right now?
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[SPEAKER_00]: In healthy ways, you know, how can I work through this?
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[SPEAKER_00]: As a parent, we want to talk to our kids when they're having an interpersonal difficulty or something hard is going on at school or with a friend and not try to solve it for him but to try to encourage them to
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[SPEAKER_00]: think it through.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What options have they considered are knee jerk response usually is to rush in and try to fix it for them or tell them how to make it better or something like that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't teach them how to think it through themselves.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're like a sounding board.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's the last category is developing effective coping.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And being aware of some of the ways you might have learned to cope growing up that worked back then, but are not serving you well now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and to see if you might be able to do about modifying that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm really glad that we are starting to blend what it looks like to parent our children.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we spend the second half of the podcast talking a little bit more about kids.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You've obviously given us a pretty solid foundation on where to go.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I will say, I am noticing in my own kiddos right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Specifically, I noticed at my boys, this is my example.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're at the pool, it's respiratory.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so they immediately want to get a snack from the snack bar.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just because they're not being stimulated anymore by the pool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But then if they get a snack, which I don't do every time, then they want something else before the rest period.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like that 10 minutes of uncomfortability.
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[SPEAKER_01]: they need to fill with some kind of simulation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, go figure it out, go play.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm like, maybe if I added more structure, and this is in the summer when we're at the pool, this isn't happening all the time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there are moments like that where it's like, yeah, I don't want to rescue from this, and I can also just see that you're looking for that next hit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't know how to just sit and be still.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So my children are six and nine.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think this could look different at those ages than for teenagers, but I'll let you speak to that in any facet.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think that's great that you're already aware of like you want them to, there's some moments you're thinking they could be ready to handle that little space of time without having to kind of have something to do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that you're doing the right thing by encouraging them to maybe saying,
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know you think you're hungry, but we're going to have lunch in a half an hour.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just go on out there and see if you can't occupy yourself for a little bit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you're kind of validating that they're craving something.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And yet you're not, you're also telling them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But we're going to wait.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's more important that we just let's take this 15 minutes to just
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[SPEAKER_00]: do nothing, just have fun, lie here on the pool cushion and just relax a little bit, and food will be coming, but we're just not going to do it right now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that with our kids validating the need or what we think they're asking for, but not necessarily satisfying it, right in the moment.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because in some ways it can be more comfortable for us to just keep them comfortable.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But then you're right, then are we ever giving them a chance to tolerate discomfort, which is such an important thing to be able to do because that's the very thing that leads us to unhealthy kind of
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[SPEAKER_00]: grabbing hold of just anything to fill us up because we don't have it learned how to tolerate just the little ups and downs of how the day goes and some moments are more pleasant than others and some moments are kind of boring and uncomfortable.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When we can develop that resilience to not have to be always stimulated in some positive way, we're going to end up healthier.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and I think I guess specifically with this the pool example, I understand that you're in a on a high for that 45 minutes that you're swimming you're really you are really overstimulated probably there's a lot of noise and some chaos so to come down for 10 minutes and to rest I understand that can be difficult for younger children and pull themselves out of and then their example is we're recently school just started back up and so my son and I are in the car for a good 10 to 15 minutes at the drop off that as we wait for the building to open.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to, I want him to understand like you can read a book during this time, you can just be quiet before you enter your school day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not always having to, as you said, rescue them from feeling discomfort.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I guess even if you feel discomfort, it's not always that they have to just sit there quietly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like a book is a healthy option to opt into.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A really healthy one.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just something that's maybe not electronic or overly stimulating or
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[SPEAKER_00]: Just like, and, and, yeah, saying, this is just the time we're going to have be a little more quiet, find something quiet to occupy ourselves.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So for people listening and I do have an episode coming up on this of about managing ADHD.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm excited to dive deeper into that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know if you want to speak to if there are certain brains that are a little bit more likely to opt into some of these more stimulating or I guess bad behaviors for lack of a better word.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, that's, that's going to be, that's going to be hard a little bit hard because we do want to try to know our child and understand them and help them find like the healthiest versions of of creating a way of them kind of moving through the day in the world that
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[SPEAKER_00]: that is sensitive to the way they operate and the way they're brain operates and so trying to force a child with ADHD to be sitting down quietly and meditating with you or being books or not having an outlet for their kind of energy in the way they process.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think just becoming a little bit
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[SPEAKER_00]: the temperament of your child, or if they have things like you think word they have ADHD, so that you can be trying to head them in a direction that'll be good for them in their growth, but that you're not overly imposing something on them that doesn't really kind of fit exactly who they are.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think I guess what I'm getting to is there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm speaking maybe for myself.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a lot more impulsive and compulsive than my husband is, especially in moments of stress.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure listeners that are similar find themselves again shopping.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Online shopping at night when their range just can't turn off and they go to that as a fix.
19:21.263 --> 19:34.333
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I do think that's something we have to learn how to navigate and another thing I wanted to talk about is when we do get it wrong a rupture in the way that we are parenting them why the repair part is so important to come back to.
19:35.277 --> 19:36.277
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to be perfect.
19:36.817 --> 19:37.658
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course not.
19:37.818 --> 19:38.158
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:38.258 --> 19:48.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, one of my favorite things I came across in the literature way back, and I was so relieved about is that it's not important to be a perfectly attuned parent.
19:48.841 --> 19:56.403
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, woo, you know, we don't all have to feel guilty and worried and stress them of always just being at our optimal best with our kids.
19:56.463 --> 19:57.283
[SPEAKER_00]: We can be human.
19:58.023 --> 20:20.394
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually it's really important that because because our kids need to learn that's who they're going to be interacting with in the world real people who have good days and bad days and so they get to sort it out with us the way that you develop a sense of security and a sense of trust is again not by having perfect interactions with people but by having things go wrong.
20:21.074 --> 20:23.415
[SPEAKER_00]: and then seeing that they can be repaired.
20:23.916 --> 20:25.537
[SPEAKER_00]: So repair is critical.
20:26.097 --> 20:38.204
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, then something we lose our temper with our kids and we yell or we're kind of really impatient with them and we can then when we can collect ourselves, we can say in the cars, we're driving to school.
20:38.264 --> 20:39.385
[SPEAKER_00]: Whew, I'm sorry.
20:39.405 --> 20:44.188
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so, I was rushing you and my tone of voice was a little harsh.
20:44.848 --> 20:48.951
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt a little stressed and worried about being on time and yet I wish I
20:49.951 --> 20:53.675
[SPEAKER_00]: could have kept been kinder in my way of hurling you up.
20:54.616 --> 21:01.963
[SPEAKER_00]: Something that something of admitting you're on, what you feel about, what you wish you could do different.
21:02.392 --> 21:04.012
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, or just even opening up.
21:04.032 --> 21:05.813
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was kind of a hard moment between us.
21:05.873 --> 21:06.593
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you okay?
21:06.713 --> 21:07.574
[SPEAKER_00]: Or sorry.
21:07.634 --> 21:09.554
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry that that didn't go better or or.
21:10.654 --> 21:16.556
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that what's important is not again that that hard things don't ever happen between people.
21:16.956 --> 21:25.119
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're modeling many things for them that you can trust that things are repairable with people and that if you're the one that has.
21:26.859 --> 21:33.041
[SPEAKER_00]: been in the wrong doing more that you can admit it and say, sorry about that, I'll do better.
21:33.381 --> 21:43.484
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be working on that or something like that so that they also then know that they can do that too, that they don't have to be perfect, but they can redirect themselves apologize.
21:44.024 --> 21:50.406
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a lot of healthy things that happen in these moments of repair as compared to
21:54.927 --> 22:02.133
[SPEAKER_00]: your out of sorts with your kids, and then you've learned for whatever reasons like, well, it just let's just let this blow over.
22:02.153 --> 22:03.454
[SPEAKER_00]: I was saying nothing.
22:04.095 --> 22:11.000
[SPEAKER_00]: They're left with a lot of confusion and uncomfortable feelings and a sense of kind of anxiety and insecurity a little bit.
22:11.040 --> 22:16.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, ooh, when's that going to happen again and how long are we going to be at odds with each other?
22:17.533 --> 22:24.276
[SPEAKER_00]: and it's like just this waiting to see getting signs that maybe it's okay to approach the parent again or something like that.
22:24.356 --> 22:29.738
[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to give them a more clear signal that let's try to talk about this.
22:30.418 --> 22:40.802
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think if we're in the habit of maybe occasionally we don't always repair and it's really important that you said we do do that and go back to it because
22:43.843 --> 22:46.645
[SPEAKER_01]: They have said, I've never heard, I'm sorry, from my mom.
22:46.665 --> 22:50.647
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I wish my mom would back and say, fill in the blank.
22:51.148 --> 22:54.450
[SPEAKER_01]: And these are women like we're in our late 30s, early 40s.
22:54.510 --> 22:56.211
[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't go away.
22:56.411 --> 22:58.593
[SPEAKER_01]: How much could just a simple, I'm sorry.
22:58.653 --> 23:02.335
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is why it doesn't mean that it's going to like fully,
23:04.079 --> 23:09.380
[SPEAKER_01]: like fully fixed it necessarily, but I think it'll make great strides if we put that effort for it now.
23:09.900 --> 23:10.180
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
23:10.260 --> 23:10.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
23:10.581 --> 23:10.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:11.341 --> 23:11.521
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:11.581 --> 23:19.963
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad you're also making me think of something else, which is it's okay for us too as parents to, you know, have a stern voice.
23:20.043 --> 23:23.704
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say our child is doing some of these little upsetting and frustrating.
23:23.864 --> 23:29.445
[SPEAKER_00]: And we make apologies when we really feel like we've kind of are disappointed in how we've handled it.
23:30.146 --> 23:35.024
[SPEAKER_00]: But there might be times when we don't necessarily need to be chronically apologizing, and more it's like
23:36.089 --> 23:55.321
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm pretty frustrated right now and I'm sure you can hear that in my tone of voice and we really need to turn this around and you do to get in the car now and ball about be it's like, and so that's not, you know, that's just kind of helping your child understand what's going on, you know, I'm here's what's happening.
23:55.561 --> 23:58.943
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like rather than just maybe yelling at them or something like that.
23:59.023 --> 24:01.745
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, I'm losing my patience now.
24:02.607 --> 24:24.932
[SPEAKER_00]: about two, three times, and now that it's more serious here, we are really, you know, and there's a seriousness in your tone of voice, and this isn't something that necessarily needs to be apologized for, you know, our apologies are more when we really feel like, oh, God, I wish I had not said that or I could have done that better, and I want to let them know.
24:25.512 --> 24:26.172
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm aware of that.
24:26.714 --> 24:52.940
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just naming it, I definitely, I do that because I used to be a lot more reactive yell, but now I can, it's like, okay, I said this once in a kind way, oh, I said it twice, now you're still doing it and I'm getting really frustrated, I'm feeling like more aggressive, more angry and I have to name it out loud because sometimes you can't tap into the prefrontal cortex where you are not just in the overdrive monkey brain and it's like, I have to stay
24:57.302 --> 24:58.063
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
24:58.464 --> 24:59.165
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
24:59.365 --> 25:12.204
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a silly expression name it to tame and or something that it really does help you when you can name a feeling it kind of it does awaken your prefrontal cortex rather than you just responding from your amygdala, you know, that's
25:12.364 --> 25:14.625
[SPEAKER_00]: all of the motion and really in the heated moment.
25:14.725 --> 25:23.929
[SPEAKER_00]: So being able to put words on, you know, label something that's happening in the process with your child, the same way we do for our kids when we see them starting to implode.
25:23.949 --> 25:37.755
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I can see you're really angry about Joe taking your football, you know, and so we're helping them to move from just the full emotionality of it into, all right, let's put some words on this.
25:38.175 --> 25:40.936
[SPEAKER_00]: And it does help kind of calm the system a little.
25:42.257 --> 25:47.879
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but one more thing I want to talk about, I'm sorry if this is like a total year from I guess it's it's related.
25:48.359 --> 25:54.982
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this concept of disavowl and it's how children learn to hide or suppress the parts of themselves that don't go welcome.
25:55.382 --> 26:00.144
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that this is related to everything that we talk about, maybe in our reaction they feel like they have to hide.
26:00.584 --> 26:09.191
[SPEAKER_01]: I just really think this is an important thing to talk about here because I think that that just creates if we are hiding who we are long term, how are we going to continue to do that in adulthood.
26:09.231 --> 26:14.015
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, go to the quick fix because we can't fully be who it is we are meant to be.
26:14.075 --> 26:14.655
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:14.815 --> 26:15.196
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:15.456 --> 26:15.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:15.896 --> 26:18.078
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm glad you picked up on that from the book.
26:18.575 --> 26:30.563
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as we're, it's so important to us to be loved and cared by our caregivers, our parents that we are pretty perceptive about what they can and can't handle and what they can tolerate about us.
26:30.884 --> 26:44.914
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there are times when if we feel like our parents can't handle us being sad or they don't know how to deal with us when we're angry and frustrated or something and they just, you know, they kind of shut us down right away or send us to our room or
26:45.754 --> 26:54.303
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to be met with some kind of welcoming empathy, you know, like I want to know you I want to understand what you're going through.
26:54.343 --> 26:55.584
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me about your experience.
26:55.664 --> 26:56.585
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing?
26:57.386 --> 27:03.532
[SPEAKER_00]: And because if we when we can't when it's too hard for us as a parent for whatever our set of
27:07.660 --> 27:10.023
[SPEAKER_00]: learns to hide that aspect of themselves.
27:10.564 --> 27:24.241
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not safe to be sad in front of my mom or dad or to be demanding or to ask for what I want or that's kind of not okay here or to ask questions or to, you know, question authority or something like that.
27:24.681 --> 27:32.445
[SPEAKER_00]: So then they learn to kind of shut that aspect of themselves down and they, and it just makes it harder.
27:32.465 --> 27:38.948
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to have to work harder later to really welcome back all parts of themselves, all feelings are welcome.
27:39.388 --> 27:47.332
[SPEAKER_00]: And then then the next step after you can realize that all your feelings are understandable and welcome and how do you constructively deal with your feelings.
27:47.752 --> 27:56.417
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, they don't even get to step two if the message seemed to be like, like, in my family, we didn't really share feelings and it was a real disservice.
27:56.437 --> 28:12.546
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't until I got into college and I realized this was a valuable, really critical thing to do because when you don't, when I didn't know how to deal with all the emotions that I had, I ended up overeating and over exercising and those were my kind of ways that I kept shoving the feelings down.
28:13.066 --> 28:14.547
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and my parents were very
28:16.208 --> 28:40.863
[SPEAKER_00]: they didn't mean harm to me, but they just didn't understand the value of, you know, and I also thought somehow I got the message that it's like, don't be a trouble maker, don't be like, be good, be good was the thing that was welcome, you know, and yet I'm like little human being, it's like kids aren't always good, you know, and so I felt like at a lot of pressure to be, you know, became a little perfectionistic and
28:42.188 --> 28:44.530
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's just a little bit of repercussions.
28:44.570 --> 28:54.417
[SPEAKER_00]: We need as parents to do the best we can to accept our kids for who they are in all their messiness and to really, really have empathy for what they're going through.
28:54.477 --> 28:59.921
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean we tolerate them misbehaving, you know, or we have to give them direction.
29:00.481 --> 29:07.846
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're accepting of who they are and we're going to help them learn how to deal effectively
29:08.887 --> 29:23.360
[SPEAKER_00]: who they are, who they're becoming, what their desires are, what their feelings are, so that they can kind of move forward in some positive way, rather than ward off, disavow, deny shove aside parts of themselves.
29:23.400 --> 29:31.286
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a patient who was very super exuberant child and her mom had a terrible depression, so I felt bad about that and her dad was
29:32.147 --> 29:33.527
[SPEAKER_00]: didn't want noise in the house.
29:33.687 --> 29:53.532
[SPEAKER_00]: And so all of this life energy of hers, her excitement, her constant questions that she wanted to ask, you know, like all of that had to just get stuffed away because there just there wasn't enough kind of safety and room for her and it took a lot of work for her to wake back up to herself, you know, later in life.
29:54.157 --> 29:54.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:54.878 --> 30:08.768
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and well, and kind of full circle here from where we started, I think that that's why it's so important for us to do the work and seeking whatever it is that we need beyond the quick fixes because it's not our child's
30:09.448 --> 30:27.951
[SPEAKER_01]: that shouldn't be the burden of our children to our work that we haven't done, and so I think if we, yeah, again, just kind of like full circle moment here, that if we are doing the inner work, then we can better show them what it looks like, and then they don't have to, they're probably going to have to navigate something, but not as many things sit down the road.
30:28.371 --> 30:28.831
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?
30:28.911 --> 30:29.531
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
30:29.551 --> 30:32.312
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, our own personal growth is so important.
30:32.372 --> 30:37.313
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, there's such a tendency when your kid is struggling to like, let's get them in therapy, and then,
30:39.053 --> 30:45.015
[SPEAKER_00]: pause to kind of take a look at what are the ways that I am still carrying some woundedness that shows up in other ways.
30:45.275 --> 30:52.217
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so to take care of ourselves with our own healing and personal growth, it's really helpful to our kids and so many different ways.
30:52.577 --> 30:53.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
30:53.997 --> 30:58.859
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, where can listeners, if they want to grab a copy of your book, do so or connect with you online?
31:00.140 --> 31:02.362
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, my website is probably the best place.
31:02.782 --> 31:08.166
[SPEAKER_00]: www.solestebergoffer.com and it gives information about my book.
31:08.206 --> 31:14.431
[SPEAKER_00]: You can order my book, uh, the on quick fixes, essential ingredients for better mental health and fulfilling life.
31:14.551 --> 31:19.434
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on Instagram and Facebook and I write a column for psychology today and things like that.
31:19.474 --> 31:21.596
[SPEAKER_00]: But all those links you can find on my website.
31:22.032 --> 31:22.452
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
31:22.592 --> 31:27.276
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as we wrap things up here, I always ask my guests just to final questions at the end get to know you a little bit better.
31:27.296 --> 31:35.163
[SPEAKER_01]: The first one is what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners and it doesn't have to do with what we talked about today, just anything to get to know you.
31:37.320 --> 31:48.710
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Kristen Neff's work on self-compassion, and I'm really, I'm just more and more a believer from my own personal experience and working with patients.
31:49.191 --> 31:55.036
[SPEAKER_00]: How critical it is for us to hold ourselves with a degree of self-compassion.
31:56.237 --> 32:05.341
[SPEAKER_00]: And it helped me when I learned that there's a difference too that she talks about, she's the leading research on self-compassion, about tender or fierce self-compassion.
32:05.902 --> 32:15.006
[SPEAKER_00]: And so tender compassion is really like when you're really hurting that you find ways to comfort yourself and to help suit yourself as you're going through your difficulty.
32:15.546 --> 32:17.807
[SPEAKER_00]: Fear of self-compassion looks a little bit different.
32:17.947 --> 32:20.648
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like really taking a stand for yourself.
32:24.030 --> 32:33.458
[SPEAKER_00]: to take care of why you're hurting is to maybe set a boundary or say no or really advocate for yourself about something.
32:33.998 --> 32:38.962
[SPEAKER_00]: And so sometimes people get this idea that self compassion is just kind of soft and fluffy.
32:39.522 --> 32:44.626
[SPEAKER_00]: And it actually also includes a really looking after yourself and a more assertive way.
32:44.907 --> 32:49.991
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think this idea of self compassion is just really important when you can be compassionate for
32:51.832 --> 32:59.338
[SPEAKER_00]: it's like it's like I think it's like a healing moment and it enables you then to deal with whatever this difficult thing is more effectively.
33:01.160 --> 33:12.569
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah absolutely I think I had I've had another guest mention her I'll have to dive a little bit deeper into her work and I'll be sure to include her in the show notes for listeners so thanks for sharing that last question is what is something you can't stop talking about?
33:14.130 --> 33:16.452
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay something that I can't stop talking about
33:19.923 --> 33:21.464
[SPEAKER_00]: that comes out September 1st.
33:21.624 --> 33:37.934
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been took this about a four-year process of writing it, and so there's lots of excitement about about getting a book out into the world that I really deeply hope will just help people to understand themselves better and understand other people better and the way the mind works.
33:38.955 --> 33:49.504
[SPEAKER_00]: so that it clears up some confusion about why life is difficult sometimes and why we end up with some mental health struggles and how to really help ourselves.
33:49.604 --> 34:00.654
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I lost my own son to a mental illness and sadly he died by suicide after a nine year battle with bipolar disorder and it's like this was the inspiration for writing this book.
34:00.714 --> 34:02.716
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it anybody who's still able
34:03.356 --> 34:10.886
[SPEAKER_00]: to learn about themselves and take really exquisitely good care of their inner life and their mental health.
34:11.487 --> 34:15.212
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them, I want to inspire them to do that because it really matters.
34:15.273 --> 34:19.719
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, thankfully those scary worst case scenarios don't happen frequently.
34:20.279 --> 34:33.787
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, if you, a lot, the rest, many of us just are kind of in this more in-between place, where we're just getting by and we think we should have good mental health just naturally or something, but it takes a lot more effort than that.
34:33.947 --> 34:46.935
[SPEAKER_00]: It really, it takes care and attention, and I want people to know what kind of things to focus on, and how to really invest in yourself, so that you just give yourself the best chance possible to live a good life.
34:47.377 --> 34:47.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:48.078 --> 34:50.100
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm really, really sorry to hear that.
34:50.160 --> 35:08.616
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, I know that this book will impact people and to recognize that you're right when we are seeking those quick fixes like life is hard and I don't think we understand that those quick fixes end up making it so much harder like if we just get to that route that we talked about the beginning, then knowing of the self to I think that.
35:09.497 --> 35:10.679
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we don't want to face it.
35:10.740 --> 35:11.841
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what keeps us stuck.
35:11.881 --> 35:13.324
[SPEAKER_01]: I have my own things that keep me stuck.
35:13.404 --> 35:17.912
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I just know that this book will be impactful and I thank you for writing and joining me, sir.
35:18.573 --> 35:19.715
[SPEAKER_00]: But thank you for having me.
35:21.248 --> 35:22.509
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think of the episode?
35:22.689 --> 35:24.271
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
35:24.751 --> 35:42.908
[SPEAKER_01]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book, minimalismoms, living and parenting with simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
35:43.568 --> 35:54.980
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do, is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
35:55.620 --> 36:04.810
[SPEAKER_01]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with plus.
00:00.091 --> 00:07.834
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important that we ourselves as parents and that we help our kids to be able to navigate the whole world of your feelings.
00:08.134 --> 00:10.034
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, can you identify what you're feeling?
00:10.094 --> 00:15.256
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you have some self compassion for yourself when you're struggling with some uncomfortable feelings?
00:15.716 --> 00:18.961
[SPEAKER_00]: can you express them rather than act them out?
00:19.201 --> 00:25.669
[SPEAKER_00]: If we're not aware of what we're feeling and can't do any processing of it in a healthy way, we tend to just act it out.
00:25.850 --> 00:32.178
[SPEAKER_00]: We, for angry, we might hurt others and lash out at others, or if we're sad, we might withdraw in some unhealthy ways.
00:32.238 --> 00:41.843
[SPEAKER_00]: So just helping kids to be able to and ourselves to be able to deal with our own emotions in a way that they're a source of valuable information and the enrich our lives.
00:41.943 --> 00:46.145
[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't have to be afraid of them, but we also don't have to be overly controlled by them.
00:46.859 --> 00:50.122
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Diane Bowden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
00:50.602 --> 01:00.610
[SPEAKER_01]: In today's conversation, I'm joined by Clinical Psychologist and Stanford, a junked facility member, Dr. Celeste Berkhafer, for a conversation about a powerful truth.
01:01.211 --> 01:05.354
[SPEAKER_01]: The mental health your child will have as an adult is being shaped right now.
01:05.895 --> 01:07.636
[SPEAKER_01]: But this isn't about perfect parenting.
01:08.076 --> 01:12.740
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about understanding the everyday experiences and relationships that help children develop
01:16.423 --> 01:20.288
[SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Berkoffer walks us through five essentials for long-term mental health.
01:20.708 --> 01:25.794
[SPEAKER_01]: We also explore what good enough parenting looks like and why children need opportunities to struggle.
01:26.275 --> 01:32.682
[SPEAKER_01]: Building tolerance from boredom, frustration and discomfort, how parenting strategies may need to shift for children with ADHD.
01:33.623 --> 01:42.371
[SPEAKER_01]: and much, much more, but quickly before we get there, if you've been enjoying the content here on the minimalist mom's podcast, be sure to hit five stars and leave a rating and review.
01:42.611 --> 01:44.512
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the best ways you can support the show.
01:44.773 --> 01:52.859
[SPEAKER_01]: And as always, say to you guys, I know there's so much content you can be consuming, so it doesn't go unnoticed that you continue to show up listening to the minimalist mom's podcast week after week.
01:53.400 --> 01:57.623
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being here, and I hope this episode is helpful to you today as I know it was for me.
01:57.964 --> 02:00.286
[SPEAKER_01]: So with that said, let's get into the conversation with Dr.
02:08.773 --> 02:12.136
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into it, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the listeners?
02:13.638 --> 02:14.558
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I see.
02:14.678 --> 02:18.922
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm on the adjunct clinical faculty at Stanford.
02:18.942 --> 02:32.395
[SPEAKER_00]: I help train the psychiatry residents and I am an author of a new book that's coming out September 1, called Beyond Quick Fixes, a sexual ingredients for better mental health and if a filling life.
02:33.549 --> 02:33.829
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
02:34.450 --> 02:37.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think I want to stay here here at the beginning.
02:37.733 --> 02:49.422
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about the idea of quick fixes and why in our culture, especially it feels like we're drawn to quick fixes for not just our health, but like in our homes or in our relationships.
02:49.803 --> 02:56.148
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm curious just to know here from the beginning, why you think that we are drawn to quick fixes, especially when it comes to our mental health.
02:57.835 --> 03:05.499
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think the reason is that it's human nature to not want to be in pain and to want to feel happy.
03:06.200 --> 03:15.245
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and we have available to us in our current culture, so many different ways that you can get a kind of a quick high.
03:16.085 --> 03:20.526
[SPEAKER_00]: feel good or a quick escape from something that is causing you pain.
03:21.066 --> 03:30.088
[SPEAKER_00]: And so part of having better mental health actually is finding healthier ways to take care of both of those needs.
03:30.328 --> 03:32.529
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so it's we come by it honestly.
03:32.589 --> 03:42.231
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not just out trying to cause havoc, you know, wrap our lives, but it's like there are a lot of unhealthy, easily available things that we can do
03:43.171 --> 03:50.498
[SPEAKER_00]: to begin either feel better or get out of pain kind of as quick as possible that don't really serve us in the long run.
03:50.879 --> 04:05.293
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, they keep us on that dopamine cycle where I think that's where it gets at a hand because people are looking for a little bit of dopamine but then it needs to be far greater each time and then that's where I feel like we can get into really bad habits.
04:06.187 --> 04:10.791
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely and I'm you know, I want to make clear then I'm not against quick fixes.
04:10.892 --> 04:28.528
[SPEAKER_00]: I use some myself like I love to watch a little Netflix TV show or something at the end of the day Some you might call that kind of a quick fix, but it's like, you know, but there are some that are healthier than others like another example of a more obvious not a healthy quick fix is drinking too much alcohol
04:29.229 --> 04:37.313
[SPEAKER_00]: or using too many drugs or developing a compulsive shopping at kind of addiction because that's kind of easy to do as well.
04:37.453 --> 04:45.017
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's you know I'm I'm there are times when it's important to have a way to go and just get a quick
04:45.217 --> 04:56.006
[SPEAKER_00]: dose of feeling good and, you know, having bringing some pleasure into your life, you know, getting a break from the things that are hard until you can go back and revisit it and deal with it more constructively.
04:56.546 --> 05:05.074
[SPEAKER_00]: But what you just have to be careful about is your tendencies and your habits, or you know, you don't want to solely be relying on these kind of
05:05.734 --> 05:17.545
[SPEAKER_00]: quick fixes and not developing yourself as a person and internal resources that will help you just deal with life more effectively and be able to create fulfillment and not get yourself into trouble.
05:17.806 --> 05:18.426
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
05:19.007 --> 05:23.651
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that you mentioned that you will at the end of the day occasionally, maybe every day too.
05:23.671 --> 05:24.972
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
05:25.012 --> 05:29.677
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch Netflix or watch a show to decompress and yes, it adds to dopamine.
05:30.017 --> 05:32.598
[SPEAKER_01]: But it seems like it's an intentional choice on your part.
05:32.718 --> 05:35.479
[SPEAKER_01]: And on the minimalist mum's podcast, we do talk about intentional living.
05:36.099 --> 05:40.840
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that is key to sustainability when it comes to fixing.
05:40.860 --> 05:44.261
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the root cause of our issue.
05:44.321 --> 05:45.861
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if you'd like to speak to that.
05:45.941 --> 05:51.563
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how can we get to the root causes to sustainably have healthy long-term while being?
05:53.338 --> 06:12.740
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think in a way this, I mean, the book that I wrote, I hopefully will help people to be better informed about, you know, what are the things that are, I end up talking about five essential things to make sure you're developing within yourself so that you have, like a sturdier foundation from which to live your life.
06:13.621 --> 06:13.821
[SPEAKER_00]: And,
06:14.365 --> 06:16.165
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to say more about those.
06:16.225 --> 06:20.406
[SPEAKER_00]: But I really like what you're asking, you're mentioning about intentionality.
06:20.606 --> 06:23.147
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that is so critical on its great.
06:23.227 --> 06:40.431
[SPEAKER_00]: What you two on your show is to help people, all of us live with more intention to slow down a little bit and really decide what are our values, what really matters most, what's really going to help us create the life that we long for ourselves and help for ourselves.
06:40.791 --> 06:42.532
[SPEAKER_00]: And then involves making a lot of choices
06:44.452 --> 06:49.494
[SPEAKER_00]: saying no to more things, being more selective about how we spread, how often we spread ourselves.
06:50.055 --> 06:57.478
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's just again, we live in a world that's just full of abundance of all kinds of abundance of good and unhealthy things.
06:58.058 --> 07:07.742
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have to be thoughtful about not letting ourselves get totally knocked around by just the whims or this or that.
07:07.862 --> 07:08.583
[SPEAKER_00]: It's end to
07:09.623 --> 07:14.350
[SPEAKER_00]: And to just periodically be checking in on ourselves to say, is this really important to me?
07:14.430 --> 07:16.653
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this really how I want to be using my time?
07:16.773 --> 07:17.935
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this choice?
07:17.955 --> 07:20.538
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it will feel good right now.
07:20.638 --> 07:23.923
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll have very much regret about it, you know, two weeks from now.
07:24.083 --> 07:24.944
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of a thing.
07:25.044 --> 07:25.325
[SPEAKER_00]: So...
07:26.043 --> 07:29.824
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and you mentioned the five essential ingredients that you have.
07:30.184 --> 07:30.865
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love for you.
07:30.885 --> 07:34.726
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to go into too much depth because I want to save some mystery for your book.
07:35.006 --> 07:40.247
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, if you want to highlight maybe at one point of each of those five, I'd love for you to do that.
07:40.848 --> 07:41.588
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, great.
07:42.388 --> 07:50.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, and the thing I would also say, especially since this podcast for a lot of moms, is that what's really important is to remember as a parent that
07:52.050 --> 07:57.435
[SPEAKER_00]: that you taking care of your own mental health and well-being is really good for your children.
07:57.675 --> 08:03.860
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you become a role model and you're also better equipped to deal with the hard parts about being a parent.
08:03.900 --> 08:04.700
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's stressful.
08:04.720 --> 08:08.603
[SPEAKER_00]: I raised two children too, and so I know that that there's a lot of demands on us.
08:09.264 --> 08:17.470
[SPEAKER_00]: So these five things apply to you and then there are also things to keep in mind for what you want to be helping your child develop.
08:17.891 --> 08:18.831
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the first one
08:20.973 --> 08:24.415
[SPEAKER_00]: And a healthy sense of self is a little more than just good self esteem.
08:24.615 --> 08:40.802
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's important to have our kids help our kids really have self worth and to understand that they're worthy of love and respect, and we want them to feel proud of themselves and good about the skills they're developing and things like that.
08:41.822 --> 08:52.053
[SPEAKER_00]: We also want to teach them agency, so a healthy sense of self includes really feeling like you have the power to impact your own life, you know, to kind of direct it in certain ways.
08:52.994 --> 09:02.403
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are like some, there's other things about a healthy sense of self, but that's a little example of and it's built on, you know, helping them to
09:03.064 --> 09:26.070
[SPEAKER_00]: have positive regard for themselves, but also be humble, you know, to know that we're all in perfect too, you know, so that and to not overly praise our kids for just accomplishments, but to really call attention to like when they're kind to others, or when they really put effort forth for something and they worked hard, like to to notice that, and more than
09:26.830 --> 09:29.713
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you got another A, or something, something of the sort.
09:29.813 --> 09:32.936
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're really reinforcing the goodness of who they're becoming.
09:33.877 --> 09:36.419
[SPEAKER_00]: The second thing is emotional intelligence.
09:37.000 --> 09:44.928
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important that we ourselves as parents and that we help our kids to be able to navigate the whole world of your feelings.
09:45.248 --> 09:47.130
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, can you identify what you're feeling?
09:47.190 --> 09:52.374
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you have some self-compassion for yourself when you're struggling with some uncomfortable feelings?
09:52.874 --> 09:56.958
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you express them and rather than act them out?
09:57.098 --> 10:04.464
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if we don't, if we're not aware of what we're feeling and can't do any processing of it in a healthy way, we tend to just act it out.
10:04.644 --> 10:07.846
[SPEAKER_00]: We, for angry, we might hurt others and lash out at others, or
10:08.787 --> 10:11.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, if we're sad, we might withdraw in some unhealthy ways.
10:11.708 --> 10:26.515
[SPEAKER_00]: So just helping kids to be able to, and ourselves to be able to, you know, deal with our own emotions in a way that they're a source of valuable information and they enrich our lives and we don't have to be afraid of them, but we also don't have to be overly controlled by them.
10:27.675 --> 10:50.852
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's mental capacities, I would say summarize that as more about just being self-aware and insightful and mindful being able to pause to help yourself slow yourself down when you can tell that you're in a kind of agitated difficult state or you're feeling reactive so kind of slow down and think whoa what's going on here for me.
10:51.032 --> 10:53.894
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I need to be aware of what insight could I have?
10:53.994 --> 10:56.456
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's all things about developing good judgment and
10:57.196 --> 11:01.057
[SPEAKER_00]: and then relationships skills is the fourth thing that's really important.
11:01.197 --> 11:10.780
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how do we, you know, the research shows strongly that having good quality relationships is highly correlated with living a good satisfying life.
11:11.200 --> 11:16.282
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to be able to develop things that help us get along well with others.
11:17.162 --> 11:31.286
[SPEAKER_00]: And that includes things like being able to have empathy or have mutual respect to know that you're also an individual with your own needs and desires as am I and we have to have a healthy way to kind of talk about that when our needs might be clashing.
11:32.006 --> 11:38.968
[SPEAKER_00]: Communication skills, teaching our kids and ourselves how to find that sweet spot of being assertive with what we need and want.
11:39.488 --> 11:45.232
[SPEAKER_00]: not be too aggressive about it and not be too passive, where we're never advocating for ourselves.
11:45.832 --> 11:51.396
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the last category and in a resource you want to develop is effective coping strategies.
11:51.416 --> 11:54.618
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of related to what we started talking about with quick fixes.
11:55.158 --> 12:02.843
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, do you have, I would say that the hallmark of effective coping is really having good attitudes,
12:03.443 --> 12:08.004
[SPEAKER_00]: and a willingness to really solve problem-solve issues.
12:08.084 --> 12:16.246
[SPEAKER_00]: So the attitude I like to summarize as I can deal with hard things, like we want to teach ourselves in our kids, like life can be hard at times.
12:16.586 --> 12:18.026
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just there's no way around it.
12:18.126 --> 12:24.528
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you want to really believe like, okay, it's hard, you want to have some self-compassion for yourself when it's difficult.
12:25.128 --> 12:33.194
[SPEAKER_00]: but you want to think, okay, but what can I do to try to make this situation or this moment a little less painful than it is for me right now?
12:33.715 --> 12:36.236
[SPEAKER_00]: In healthy ways, you know, how can I work through this?
12:36.897 --> 12:47.165
[SPEAKER_00]: As a parent, we want to talk to our kids when they're having an interpersonal difficulty or something hard is going on at school or with a friend and not try to solve it for him but to try to encourage them to
12:47.925 --> 12:48.625
[SPEAKER_00]: think it through.
12:49.046 --> 12:56.889
[SPEAKER_00]: What options have they considered are knee jerk response usually is to rush in and try to fix it for them or tell them how to make it better or something like that.
12:56.969 --> 13:00.571
[SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't teach them how to think it through themselves.
13:00.611 --> 13:02.052
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're like a sounding board.
13:02.672 --> 13:08.015
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's the last category is developing effective coping.
13:08.135 --> 13:16.399
[SPEAKER_00]: And being aware of some of the ways you might have learned to cope growing up that worked back then, but are not serving you well now.
13:17.059 --> 13:21.121
[SPEAKER_00]: and to see if you might be able to do about modifying that.
13:21.701 --> 13:22.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
13:22.662 --> 13:27.544
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm really glad that we are starting to blend what it looks like to parent our children.
13:27.584 --> 13:30.886
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we spend the second half of the podcast talking a little bit more about kids.
13:30.966 --> 13:34.247
[SPEAKER_01]: You've obviously given us a pretty solid foundation on where to go.
13:34.667 --> 13:38.309
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say, I am noticing in my own kiddos right now.
13:38.549 --> 13:42.211
[SPEAKER_01]: Specifically, I noticed at my boys, this is my example.
13:42.491 --> 13:44.492
[SPEAKER_01]: We're at the pool, it's respiratory.
13:44.533 --> 13:47.415
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they immediately want to get a snack from the snack bar.
13:47.795 --> 13:51.057
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just because they're not being stimulated anymore by the pool.
13:51.518 --> 13:56.161
[SPEAKER_01]: But then if they get a snack, which I don't do every time, then they want something else before the rest period.
13:56.201 --> 13:58.383
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like that 10 minutes of uncomfortability.
13:58.943 --> 14:01.384
[SPEAKER_01]: they need to fill with some kind of simulation.
14:01.484 --> 14:03.704
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, go figure it out, go play.
14:03.724 --> 14:08.185
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm like, maybe if I added more structure, and this is in the summer when we're at the pool, this isn't happening all the time.
14:08.205 --> 14:14.687
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there are moments like that where it's like, yeah, I don't want to rescue from this, and I can also just see that you're looking for that next hit.
14:14.867 --> 14:16.927
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't know how to just sit and be still.
14:17.007 --> 14:20.488
[SPEAKER_01]: So my children are six and nine.
14:20.868 --> 14:25.369
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this could look different at those ages than for teenagers, but I'll let you speak to that in any facet.
14:25.998 --> 14:26.678
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
14:27.199 --> 14:40.107
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think that's great that you're already aware of like you want them to, there's some moments you're thinking they could be ready to handle that little space of time without having to kind of have something to do.
14:40.668 --> 14:45.051
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that you're doing the right thing by encouraging them to maybe saying,
14:45.771 --> 14:49.594
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you think you're hungry, but we're going to have lunch in a half an hour.
14:49.754 --> 14:55.518
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just go on out there and see if you can't occupy yourself for a little bit.
14:55.558 --> 14:59.000
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're kind of validating that they're craving something.
15:00.041 --> 15:03.523
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet you're not, you're also telling them.
15:03.803 --> 15:04.664
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're going to wait.
15:05.304 --> 15:09.407
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's more important that we just let's take this 15 minutes to just
15:10.628 --> 15:20.814
[SPEAKER_00]: do nothing, just have fun, lie here on the pool cushion and just relax a little bit, and food will be coming, but we're just not going to do it right now.
15:20.834 --> 15:32.360
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that with our kids validating the need or what we think they're asking for, but not necessarily satisfying it, right in the moment.
15:32.680 --> 15:36.743
[SPEAKER_00]: Because in some ways it can be more comfortable for us to just keep them comfortable.
15:37.523 --> 15:52.282
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you're right, then are we ever giving them a chance to tolerate discomfort, which is such an important thing to be able to do because that's the very thing that leads us to unhealthy kind of
15:53.210 --> 16:08.339
[SPEAKER_00]: grabbing hold of just anything to fill us up because we don't have it learned how to tolerate just the little ups and downs of how the day goes and some moments are more pleasant than others and some moments are kind of boring and uncomfortable.
16:09.420 --> 16:17.885
[SPEAKER_00]: When we can develop that resilience to not have to be always stimulated in some positive way, we're going to end up healthier.
16:22.132 --> 16:50.287
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and I think I guess specifically with this the pool example, I understand that you're in a on a high for that 45 minutes that you're swimming you're really you are really overstimulated probably there's a lot of noise and some chaos so to come down for 10 minutes and to rest I understand that can be difficult for younger children and pull themselves out of and then their example is we're recently school just started back up and so my son and I are in the car for a good 10 to 15 minutes at the drop off that as we wait for the building to open.
16:51.067 --> 16:58.190
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to, I want him to understand like you can read a book during this time, you can just be quiet before you enter your school day.
16:58.290 --> 17:03.272
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not always having to, as you said, rescue them from feeling discomfort.
17:03.652 --> 17:08.234
[SPEAKER_01]: But I guess even if you feel discomfort, it's not always that they have to just sit there quietly.
17:08.254 --> 17:10.896
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a book is a healthy option to opt into.
17:11.516 --> 17:12.336
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
17:12.596 --> 17:12.936
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:12.956 --> 17:14.017
[SPEAKER_00]: A really healthy one.
17:14.177 --> 17:18.199
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just something that's maybe not electronic or overly stimulating or
17:18.959 --> 17:27.087
[SPEAKER_00]: Just like, and, and, yeah, saying, this is just the time we're going to have be a little more quiet, find something quiet to occupy ourselves.
17:34.012 --> 17:39.455
[SPEAKER_01]: So for people listening and I do have an episode coming up on this of about managing ADHD.
17:39.495 --> 17:41.015
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm excited to dive deeper into that.
17:41.035 --> 17:53.581
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know if you want to speak to if there are certain brains that are a little bit more likely to opt into some of these more stimulating or I guess bad behaviors for lack of a better word.
17:55.953 --> 18:17.113
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, that's, that's going to be, that's going to be hard a little bit hard because we do want to try to know our child and understand them and help them find like the healthiest versions of of creating a way of them kind of moving through the day in the world that
18:18.094 --> 18:36.583
[SPEAKER_00]: that is sensitive to the way they operate and the way they're brain operates and so trying to force a child with ADHD to be sitting down quietly and meditating with you or being books or not having an outlet for their kind of energy in the way they process.
18:36.603 --> 18:38.484
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think just becoming a little bit
18:41.935 --> 19:00.808
[SPEAKER_00]: the temperament of your child, or if they have things like you think word they have ADHD, so that you can be trying to head them in a direction that'll be good for them in their growth, but that you're not overly imposing something on them that doesn't really kind of fit exactly who they are.
19:01.300 --> 19:01.681
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
19:01.921 --> 19:02.241
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
19:02.602 --> 19:04.864
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think I guess what I'm getting to is there.
19:05.505 --> 19:06.726
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm speaking maybe for myself.
19:06.987 --> 19:12.113
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a lot more impulsive and compulsive than my husband is, especially in moments of stress.
19:12.493 --> 19:16.778
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure listeners that are similar find themselves again shopping.
19:16.838 --> 19:20.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Online shopping at night when their range just can't turn off and they go to that as a fix.
19:21.263 --> 19:34.333
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I do think that's something we have to learn how to navigate and another thing I wanted to talk about is when we do get it wrong a rupture in the way that we are parenting them why the repair part is so important to come back to.
19:35.277 --> 19:36.277
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to be perfect.
19:36.817 --> 19:37.658
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course not.
19:37.818 --> 19:38.158
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:38.258 --> 19:48.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, one of my favorite things I came across in the literature way back, and I was so relieved about is that it's not important to be a perfectly attuned parent.
19:48.841 --> 19:56.403
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, woo, you know, we don't all have to feel guilty and worried and stress them of always just being at our optimal best with our kids.
19:56.463 --> 19:57.283
[SPEAKER_00]: We can be human.
19:58.023 --> 20:20.394
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually it's really important that because because our kids need to learn that's who they're going to be interacting with in the world real people who have good days and bad days and so they get to sort it out with us the way that you develop a sense of security and a sense of trust is again not by having perfect interactions with people but by having things go wrong.
20:21.074 --> 20:23.415
[SPEAKER_00]: and then seeing that they can be repaired.
20:23.916 --> 20:25.537
[SPEAKER_00]: So repair is critical.
20:26.097 --> 20:38.204
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, then something we lose our temper with our kids and we yell or we're kind of really impatient with them and we can then when we can collect ourselves, we can say in the cars, we're driving to school.
20:38.264 --> 20:39.385
[SPEAKER_00]: Whew, I'm sorry.
20:39.405 --> 20:44.188
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so, I was rushing you and my tone of voice was a little harsh.
20:44.848 --> 20:48.951
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt a little stressed and worried about being on time and yet I wish I
20:49.951 --> 20:53.675
[SPEAKER_00]: could have kept been kinder in my way of hurling you up.
20:54.616 --> 21:01.963
[SPEAKER_00]: Something that something of admitting you're on, what you feel about, what you wish you could do different.
21:02.392 --> 21:04.012
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, or just even opening up.
21:04.032 --> 21:05.813
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was kind of a hard moment between us.
21:05.873 --> 21:06.593
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you okay?
21:06.713 --> 21:07.574
[SPEAKER_00]: Or sorry.
21:07.634 --> 21:09.554
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry that that didn't go better or or.
21:10.654 --> 21:16.556
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that what's important is not again that that hard things don't ever happen between people.
21:16.956 --> 21:25.119
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're modeling many things for them that you can trust that things are repairable with people and that if you're the one that has.
21:26.859 --> 21:33.041
[SPEAKER_00]: been in the wrong doing more that you can admit it and say, sorry about that, I'll do better.
21:33.381 --> 21:43.484
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be working on that or something like that so that they also then know that they can do that too, that they don't have to be perfect, but they can redirect themselves apologize.
21:44.024 --> 21:50.406
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a lot of healthy things that happen in these moments of repair as compared to
21:54.927 --> 22:02.133
[SPEAKER_00]: your out of sorts with your kids, and then you've learned for whatever reasons like, well, it just let's just let this blow over.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was saying nothing.
22:04.095 --> 22:11.000
[SPEAKER_00]: They're left with a lot of confusion and uncomfortable feelings and a sense of kind of anxiety and insecurity a little bit.
22:11.040 --> 22:16.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, ooh, when's that going to happen again and how long are we going to be at odds with each other?
22:17.533 --> 22:24.276
[SPEAKER_00]: and it's like just this waiting to see getting signs that maybe it's okay to approach the parent again or something like that.
22:24.356 --> 22:29.738
[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to give them a more clear signal that let's try to talk about this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think if we're in the habit of maybe occasionally we don't always repair and it's really important that you said we do do that and go back to it because
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[SPEAKER_01]: They have said, I've never heard, I'm sorry, from my mom.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I wish my mom would back and say, fill in the blank.
22:51.148 --> 22:54.450
[SPEAKER_01]: And these are women like we're in our late 30s, early 40s.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't go away.
22:56.411 --> 22:58.593
[SPEAKER_01]: How much could just a simple, I'm sorry.
22:58.653 --> 23:02.335
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is why it doesn't mean that it's going to like fully,
23:04.079 --> 23:09.380
[SPEAKER_01]: like fully fixed it necessarily, but I think it'll make great strides if we put that effort for it now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad you're also making me think of something else, which is it's okay for us too as parents to, you know, have a stern voice.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say our child is doing some of these little upsetting and frustrating.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we make apologies when we really feel like we've kind of are disappointed in how we've handled it.
23:30.146 --> 23:35.024
[SPEAKER_00]: But there might be times when we don't necessarily need to be chronically apologizing, and more it's like
23:36.089 --> 23:55.321
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm pretty frustrated right now and I'm sure you can hear that in my tone of voice and we really need to turn this around and you do to get in the car now and ball about be it's like, and so that's not, you know, that's just kind of helping your child understand what's going on, you know, I'm here's what's happening.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like rather than just maybe yelling at them or something like that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, I'm losing my patience now.
24:02.607 --> 24:24.932
[SPEAKER_00]: about two, three times, and now that it's more serious here, we are really, you know, and there's a seriousness in your tone of voice, and this isn't something that necessarily needs to be apologized for, you know, our apologies are more when we really feel like, oh, God, I wish I had not said that or I could have done that better, and I want to let them know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm aware of that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just naming it, I definitely, I do that because I used to be a lot more reactive yell, but now I can, it's like, okay, I said this once in a kind way, oh, I said it twice, now you're still doing it and I'm getting really frustrated, I'm feeling like more aggressive, more angry and I have to name it out loud because sometimes you can't tap into the prefrontal cortex where you are not just in the overdrive monkey brain and it's like, I have to stay
24:57.302 --> 24:58.063
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
24:58.464 --> 24:59.165
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a silly expression name it to tame and or something that it really does help you when you can name a feeling it kind of it does awaken your prefrontal cortex rather than you just responding from your amygdala, you know, that's
25:12.364 --> 25:14.625
[SPEAKER_00]: all of the motion and really in the heated moment.
25:14.725 --> 25:23.929
[SPEAKER_00]: So being able to put words on, you know, label something that's happening in the process with your child, the same way we do for our kids when we see them starting to implode.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I can see you're really angry about Joe taking your football, you know, and so we're helping them to move from just the full emotionality of it into, all right, let's put some words on this.
25:38.175 --> 25:40.936
[SPEAKER_00]: And it does help kind of calm the system a little.
25:42.257 --> 25:47.879
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but one more thing I want to talk about, I'm sorry if this is like a total year from I guess it's it's related.
25:48.359 --> 25:54.982
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this concept of disavowl and it's how children learn to hide or suppress the parts of themselves that don't go welcome.
25:55.382 --> 26:00.144
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that this is related to everything that we talk about, maybe in our reaction they feel like they have to hide.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just really think this is an important thing to talk about here because I think that that just creates if we are hiding who we are long term, how are we going to continue to do that in adulthood.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And again, go to the quick fix because we can't fully be who it is we are meant to be.
26:14.075 --> 26:14.655
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm glad you picked up on that from the book.
26:18.575 --> 26:30.563
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as we're, it's so important to us to be loved and cared by our caregivers, our parents that we are pretty perceptive about what they can and can't handle and what they can tolerate about us.
26:30.884 --> 26:44.914
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there are times when if we feel like our parents can't handle us being sad or they don't know how to deal with us when we're angry and frustrated or something and they just, you know, they kind of shut us down right away or send us to our room or
26:45.754 --> 26:54.303
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to be met with some kind of welcoming empathy, you know, like I want to know you I want to understand what you're going through.
26:54.343 --> 26:55.584
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me about your experience.
26:55.664 --> 26:56.585
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing?
26:57.386 --> 27:03.532
[SPEAKER_00]: And because if we when we can't when it's too hard for us as a parent for whatever our set of
27:07.660 --> 27:10.023
[SPEAKER_00]: learns to hide that aspect of themselves.
27:10.564 --> 27:24.241
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not safe to be sad in front of my mom or dad or to be demanding or to ask for what I want or that's kind of not okay here or to ask questions or to, you know, question authority or something like that.
27:24.681 --> 27:32.445
[SPEAKER_00]: So then they learn to kind of shut that aspect of themselves down and they, and it just makes it harder.
27:32.465 --> 27:38.948
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to have to work harder later to really welcome back all parts of themselves, all feelings are welcome.
27:39.388 --> 27:47.332
[SPEAKER_00]: And then then the next step after you can realize that all your feelings are understandable and welcome and how do you constructively deal with your feelings.
27:47.752 --> 27:56.417
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, they don't even get to step two if the message seemed to be like, like, in my family, we didn't really share feelings and it was a real disservice.
27:56.437 --> 28:12.546
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't until I got into college and I realized this was a valuable, really critical thing to do because when you don't, when I didn't know how to deal with all the emotions that I had, I ended up overeating and over exercising and those were my kind of ways that I kept shoving the feelings down.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, and my parents were very
28:16.208 --> 28:40.863
[SPEAKER_00]: they didn't mean harm to me, but they just didn't understand the value of, you know, and I also thought somehow I got the message that it's like, don't be a trouble maker, don't be like, be good, be good was the thing that was welcome, you know, and yet I'm like little human being, it's like kids aren't always good, you know, and so I felt like at a lot of pressure to be, you know, became a little perfectionistic and
28:42.188 --> 28:44.530
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's just a little bit of repercussions.
28:44.570 --> 28:54.417
[SPEAKER_00]: We need as parents to do the best we can to accept our kids for who they are in all their messiness and to really, really have empathy for what they're going through.
28:54.477 --> 28:59.921
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean we tolerate them misbehaving, you know, or we have to give them direction.
29:00.481 --> 29:07.846
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're accepting of who they are and we're going to help them learn how to deal effectively
29:08.887 --> 29:23.360
[SPEAKER_00]: who they are, who they're becoming, what their desires are, what their feelings are, so that they can kind of move forward in some positive way, rather than ward off, disavow, deny shove aside parts of themselves.
29:23.400 --> 29:31.286
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a patient who was very super exuberant child and her mom had a terrible depression, so I felt bad about that and her dad was
29:32.147 --> 29:33.527
[SPEAKER_00]: didn't want noise in the house.
29:33.687 --> 29:53.532
[SPEAKER_00]: And so all of this life energy of hers, her excitement, her constant questions that she wanted to ask, you know, like all of that had to just get stuffed away because there just there wasn't enough kind of safety and room for her and it took a lot of work for her to wake back up to herself, you know, later in life.
29:54.157 --> 29:54.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:54.878 --> 30:08.768
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and well, and kind of full circle here from where we started, I think that that's why it's so important for us to do the work and seeking whatever it is that we need beyond the quick fixes because it's not our child's
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[SPEAKER_01]: that shouldn't be the burden of our children to our work that we haven't done, and so I think if we, yeah, again, just kind of like full circle moment here, that if we are doing the inner work, then we can better show them what it looks like, and then they don't have to, they're probably going to have to navigate something, but not as many things sit down the road.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?
30:28.911 --> 30:29.531
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, our own personal growth is so important.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, there's such a tendency when your kid is struggling to like, let's get them in therapy, and then,
30:39.053 --> 30:45.015
[SPEAKER_00]: pause to kind of take a look at what are the ways that I am still carrying some woundedness that shows up in other ways.
30:45.275 --> 30:52.217
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so to take care of ourselves with our own healing and personal growth, it's really helpful to our kids and so many different ways.
30:52.577 --> 30:53.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
30:53.997 --> 30:58.859
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, where can listeners, if they want to grab a copy of your book, do so or connect with you online?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, my website is probably the best place.
31:02.782 --> 31:08.166
[SPEAKER_00]: www.solestebergoffer.com and it gives information about my book.
31:08.206 --> 31:14.431
[SPEAKER_00]: You can order my book, uh, the on quick fixes, essential ingredients for better mental health and fulfilling life.
31:14.551 --> 31:19.434
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on Instagram and Facebook and I write a column for psychology today and things like that.
31:19.474 --> 31:21.596
[SPEAKER_00]: But all those links you can find on my website.
31:22.032 --> 31:22.452
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as we wrap things up here, I always ask my guests just to final questions at the end get to know you a little bit better.
31:27.296 --> 31:35.163
[SPEAKER_01]: The first one is what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners and it doesn't have to do with what we talked about today, just anything to get to know you.
31:37.320 --> 31:48.710
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Kristen Neff's work on self-compassion, and I'm really, I'm just more and more a believer from my own personal experience and working with patients.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How critical it is for us to hold ourselves with a degree of self-compassion.
31:56.237 --> 32:05.341
[SPEAKER_00]: And it helped me when I learned that there's a difference too that she talks about, she's the leading research on self-compassion, about tender or fierce self-compassion.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so tender compassion is really like when you're really hurting that you find ways to comfort yourself and to help suit yourself as you're going through your difficulty.
32:15.546 --> 32:17.807
[SPEAKER_00]: Fear of self-compassion looks a little bit different.
32:17.947 --> 32:20.648
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like really taking a stand for yourself.
32:24.030 --> 32:33.458
[SPEAKER_00]: to take care of why you're hurting is to maybe set a boundary or say no or really advocate for yourself about something.
32:33.998 --> 32:38.962
[SPEAKER_00]: And so sometimes people get this idea that self compassion is just kind of soft and fluffy.
32:39.522 --> 32:44.626
[SPEAKER_00]: And it actually also includes a really looking after yourself and a more assertive way.
32:44.907 --> 32:49.991
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think this idea of self compassion is just really important when you can be compassionate for
32:51.832 --> 32:59.338
[SPEAKER_00]: it's like it's like I think it's like a healing moment and it enables you then to deal with whatever this difficult thing is more effectively.
33:01.160 --> 33:12.569
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah absolutely I think I had I've had another guest mention her I'll have to dive a little bit deeper into her work and I'll be sure to include her in the show notes for listeners so thanks for sharing that last question is what is something you can't stop talking about?
33:14.130 --> 33:16.452
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay something that I can't stop talking about
33:19.923 --> 33:21.464
[SPEAKER_00]: that comes out September 1st.
33:21.624 --> 33:37.934
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been took this about a four-year process of writing it, and so there's lots of excitement about about getting a book out into the world that I really deeply hope will just help people to understand themselves better and understand other people better and the way the mind works.
33:38.955 --> 33:49.504
[SPEAKER_00]: so that it clears up some confusion about why life is difficult sometimes and why we end up with some mental health struggles and how to really help ourselves.
33:49.604 --> 34:00.654
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I lost my own son to a mental illness and sadly he died by suicide after a nine year battle with bipolar disorder and it's like this was the inspiration for writing this book.
34:00.714 --> 34:02.716
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it anybody who's still able
34:03.356 --> 34:10.886
[SPEAKER_00]: to learn about themselves and take really exquisitely good care of their inner life and their mental health.
34:11.487 --> 34:15.212
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them, I want to inspire them to do that because it really matters.
34:15.273 --> 34:19.719
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, thankfully those scary worst case scenarios don't happen frequently.
34:20.279 --> 34:33.787
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, if you, a lot, the rest, many of us just are kind of in this more in-between place, where we're just getting by and we think we should have good mental health just naturally or something, but it takes a lot more effort than that.
34:33.947 --> 34:46.935
[SPEAKER_00]: It really, it takes care and attention, and I want people to know what kind of things to focus on, and how to really invest in yourself, so that you just give yourself the best chance possible to live a good life.
34:47.377 --> 34:47.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:48.078 --> 34:50.100
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm really, really sorry to hear that.
34:50.160 --> 35:08.616
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, I know that this book will impact people and to recognize that you're right when we are seeking those quick fixes like life is hard and I don't think we understand that those quick fixes end up making it so much harder like if we just get to that route that we talked about the beginning, then knowing of the self to I think that.
35:09.497 --> 35:10.679
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we don't want to face it.
35:10.740 --> 35:11.841
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what keeps us stuck.
35:11.881 --> 35:13.324
[SPEAKER_01]: I have my own things that keep me stuck.
35:13.404 --> 35:17.912
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I just know that this book will be impactful and I thank you for writing and joining me, sir.
35:18.573 --> 35:19.715
[SPEAKER_00]: But thank you for having me.
35:21.248 --> 35:22.509
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think of the episode?
35:22.689 --> 35:24.271
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
35:24.751 --> 35:42.908
[SPEAKER_01]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book, minimalismoms, living and parenting with simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
35:43.568 --> 35:54.980
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do, is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
35:55.620 --> 36:04.810
[SPEAKER_01]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with plus.
