WEBVTT
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Hi, how are you?
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This is Dr.
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Damaris Maria Grossman, and this is the Mindfully Integrative Show.
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And today we have an amazing mindful chat with Dr.
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Andrew Neville.
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He is a naturopathic doctor, an expert, and 20 years devoting to his patients and also the adrenal fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome.
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So I really can't wait for you guys to chat with him and on his perspective and how he's helped heal and give his patients what they need and maybe help one of you that is listening.
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Thank you.
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Appreciate it.
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Yeah.
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So thanks for being on the show.
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And I always kind of say a little fun fact somebody may not know about you.
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Fun fact.
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So I uh I have a thing for rhinoceri rhinos.
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My favorite.
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I don't even know.
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My favorite thing?
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What does that mean?
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My favorite animal is a rhinoceros.
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And I I read a book uh this is decades ago about uh rhinoceros and the symbolism in it is what I liked, right?
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Rhinoceros are their rhinos are pretty docile most of the time, uh kind of state of themselves for the for the most part, but they've got this kind of two-inch thick skin, right?
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You ever see like birds standing up like and as a naturopathic doctor treating adrenal fatigue, which is a condition that's kind of questioned in conventional medicine, you kind of need that two-inch thick skin, actually.
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Um, and they're pretty just kind of state of themselves, but they've got this horn uh just in case uh somebody gets in their way.
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So I've got rhinos here and there actually uh in and around uh around my office.
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Oh, that's cool.
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Yeah, I'm uh I like elephants.
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Those are ones, elephants and turtles, those are mine.
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Yeah, yeah, I love it.
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No, I great symbol elephants as as well.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, those are my top two, usually.
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Um, so yeah, let's get to it.
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So what um I know, so one, you're a naturopathic doctor.
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So those that haven't been listening to my show, what is a naturopathic doctor?
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Most people should know by now because I've had a few of you guys on.
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You're doctors.
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So um, but and where and your specialty is, and then explain what your specialty is.
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Yeah, sure thing, sure thing.
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So, naturopathic doctors, um, there are naturopathic medical schools, right, which is specific where um it's a four-year degree, very similar to conventional doctors, um, where we learn all the didactic stuff, the science um and your your uh you know, pharmacology, biology, all those basic things.
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Um, and then you go beyond that and into clinical practice um as well.
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So it's a four-year degree.
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We're trained, uh I went to school out in Washington at Best Year University, where we are trained and licensed as basically like GPs, um, you know, prescriptive rights and things like that.
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I practice in Pennsylvania, so I practice um a little differently um out here than I would, but we're I I kind of see us as a bit of a bridge between um kind of more alternative medicines, right?
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And conventional medicine over here.
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We kind of you're my integrative bridge.
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You definitely would say, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
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Yeah, I work a lot with um NDs um recently more and yeah, definitely integrative bridge because it needs we need to have that conversation more instead of like uh a competition.
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It's like there's no oh indeed.
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You know, I'm an NP, but you know, um I've noticed in my field I've had to really bridge a lot.
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Like, no, no, there's more out there, there's more info.
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Yeah, that's why I started the podcast at a out of passion, trying to integrate as much as possible.
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Yeah, it it all has its place for sure, right?
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And uh the one thing that drew me to naturopathic philosophy, because I didn't grow up, you know, hugging trees or anything.
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You know, I grew up kind of with a pretty, pretty standard upbringing, um, you know, kind of mired in the the you know, one drug for one disease kind of a model, right?
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And um, you know, it was when I started having problems with with what turned out to be adrenal fatigue, um, where I was looking for answers, right?
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And I can be pretty persistent in trying to find answers.
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And um that drew me towards uh kind of away from conventional medicine and towards uh more alternative medicine, whether it's chiropractic and um it was a chiropractor actually who who mentioned uh naturopathic medicine, which I had never heard of before.
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And once I looked at the philosophy of naturopathic medicine, which is about, you know, finding and treating the cause, um, you know, utilizing the healing power of nature, um, you know, reestablishing kind of the basis for for health, right?
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Not just kind of the treatment of disease, but for health.
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Um, once I learned about that philosophy, I mean, my my kind of path was chosen for me.
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And um, you know, so I ended up going to uh going out to Washington to do my naturopathic medical training.
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It was out there, actually, that I I discovered uh what was going on.
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I discovered my predecessor's book um about adrenal fatigue.
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Okay.
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I had had some uh I had had some symptoms that were problematic and and I had mixed results.
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And I had plenty of practitioners trying to treat, you know, whether it was my high blood pressure with meds or my anxiety or my gut problems or my Epstein bar that would reactivate and people would chase after those things, which actually kind of continued in naturopathic medical school.
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Um, they were brilliant doctors um and very good, but they were kind of dancing around um, kind of what I have learned to be the kind of the underlying cause, right?
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And once I found this this book, which was uh changed, the original version of this was called the adrenal syndrome.
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And he wrote that book back in the 70s.
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He changed the name to Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000, and back in 2000, because adrenal fatigue, if you take that to the nth degree, it can turn into a diagnosable condition, right?
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Chronic fatigue syndrome.
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Um, once I opened that book and read that book, I mean, he described kind of everything that had been going on for me.
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And it kind of put all these pieces of the puzzle together.
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Why the anxiety, why the Epstein bar, why the gut problems, why the food allergies, why um, and my path was forever changed.
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Uh yeah.
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I can I can only imagine.
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And so from there, then it became working on your health, and then now we're helping others.
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Indeed.
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Indeed.
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I mean, it was uh people ask me my story quite a bit, my patients, right?
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They seem to like to know that I've suffered uh alongside them.
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I know.
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I you know, they all want to know why we suffered.
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We're like, yes, this is why we're helping you now.
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That's exactly right.
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That's exactly right.
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Um and like, how long did it take you to heal?
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Right.
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And I'm like, well, I was in med school when I figured out what was wrong with me.
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I had my first child around that same time.
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Like, my fatigue on top of fatigue.
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My my bucket of of tolerance for sure, my bucket was full at the time, right?
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Right.
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So it took me some time, but I was able to, through the book and through talking to Dr.
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Posenecker and actually coming out and doing kind of preceptorships with him and learning things and his guidance, I was able to kind of stay afloat, right, and gradually work on healing.
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Um, ultimately, I did a a residency with him uh for a year or two years before he passed away and then kind of took over um his practice.
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And he had specialized in adrenal fatigue 30 years, for 30 years prior to me even coming here.
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And um since then I've been doing it for 20.
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Really, just kind of my life's work is this effort to help people understand what adrenal fatigue is and and try to catch it as early as possible.
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Um, because it's really a a truly deep kind of underlying cause of a lot of what I would consider even secondary or tertiary conditions, um like my Epstein bar, or um, even the anxiety I was having, or the food allergies that I developed to the kin, those kinds of things.
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These are different triggers that inflat like made an inflammatory response to to this, or it could be multiple.
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It's always multiple, right?
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To me, I see us as having um, we kind of have so so I'll I'll go this way.
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Yeah, let's talk about that.
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Adrenal fatigue is tough because it's uh very poorly understood out there.
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Um conventional medicine does not, they're not taught that it's a thing.
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Yeah, so I feel like on my functional medicine group, even their take on it, they come they do address it, but the the overview is saying talking about how conventional approach doesn't believe in it.
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And I think like I think when you just say nothing, when you put a mask over something and say it doesn't exist, that that always kind of concerns me.
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So it's like, why is that?
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And and explain to us what adrenal fatigue is.
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Yeah, sure.
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Because it does exist, obviously.
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It does exist or whatever you want to call it, yes, there is a stress response that is happening.
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And that's the problem, right?
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It's the you know, like come on, let's talk about the naming of it.
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Um, they're taught that if you don't have Addison's disease, that if your adrenals haven't completely failed, that you don't have an adrenal problem.
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That's pretty much it.
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Right, right, right.
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They they will chase after and acknowledge the symptoms that we associate with adrenal fatigue, which I'll mention.
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You know, even if I think about that logically, if we look at the rest of the endocrine system, right?
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You're you're allowed to have a thyroid problem that's short of complete failure.
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You're allowed to have a problem with your ovaries or testes short of complete failure, not your adrenals.
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Like if your adrenals are functioning at all, it doesn't make you go, you go, it's still a machine.
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Like, why is that all of a sudden just like a standoff?
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All right, it doesn't exist, just like the appendix.
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Oh, it doesn't exist.
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Like I'm just putting out the appendix or the liver.
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All right, something the liver and the pancreas are, you know, why do we have all these?
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That's a whole other conversation.
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Talk about it another day.
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But understood, understood.
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Yeah, so it's it doesn't make it doesn't make sense, right?
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And it didn't make sense to me.
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Um, if we go away from conventional medicine, broaden our our horizons a little bit, look towards integrative medicine, you'll find doctors that believe in it and test for it and even find it.
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But at times it's like they've kind of just grabbed hold of a tail of something that's a little bigger than they anticipated.
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Because the adrenals, if we think about it, um, the adrenals are definitely part of the problem because they're producing the cortisol and adrenaline, which I give a bad rap to all the time because of all the damage that causes, right?
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But it's life-saving.
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Like we wouldn't be here.
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Right or flight or the needs, yeah.
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But the adrenals don't decide whether or not to release those hormones, right?
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So somebody tells them what to do.
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So if there's an adrenal problem, there's got to be a problem with whoever yells at the adrenals, right?
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So, you know, we have to look at the hypothalamus and pituitaries.
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But this gets us to the hormone side of the stress response system.
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There's this other side of the stress response system, which is all your nerves, basically your autonomic nervous system, right?
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Controlling all your organs.
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Those systems work together.
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I tease them apart because treatment and symptoms can be a little varied.
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But neither of those divisions of your stress response system actually call the shots, right?
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The limbic system, just above that hypothalamus, right?
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That kind of deep central part of our lizard brain, like that's the CEO of your stress response, right?
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Constantly looking for and assessing our environment for danger, right?
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Whether that's external environment through senses, perception, internal environment, through chemicals and the blood supply.
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And when it receives that information, it's got to react, right?
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Is this stimulus harmful, dangerous?
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Can this kill me?
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Do I got to jump this body into fight or flight, right?
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Hormones, nerves, or is it the opposite?
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Is it harmless, innocuous, and I can chill out in vacation mode and just let it pass, right?
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Well, what we know is that with a bit of a genetic predisposition and enough chronic stress over time of any kind, that limbic system gets trigger happy.
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It gets sensitized, right?
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So that minor stressors don't generate a minor response, right?
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You've got a minor stress, but it's now a major response.
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So this limbic system's kind of making mountains out of molehills.
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Now we're overinterpreting our environment as dangerous, and we start getting stuck physiologically in fight or flight.
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And to me, this is remember those days.
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Yeah, right.
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Sadly, I do.
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Unfortunately, I wish I wasn't one of your I wasn't one of your patients, but I probably should have and and patients will say that.
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They're like, Well, that's that's what I feel like.
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Like I'm always in fight or flight.
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I'm like, I know that's the problem, right?
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But the stress might not even be there anymore.
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It's just the limbic system is wound really tight.
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Yeah.
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So so the most accurate name, in my opinion, to call adrenal fatigue is actually not a very sexy name, but we would call it a stress response system dysfunction.
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Because it's important, right?
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But I mean, well, then you'd have to write a book on it.
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I know.
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Oh my gosh, I was just having this conversation both with my staff and um a group of my patients where I do these group calls.
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They're like, Dr.
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Noble, um, share this.
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Well, I'm trying to I'm trying to write like a book right now, so I totally know.
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And then I'm trying to do a collaborative with all the guests.
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And um, you know, uh, as we're chatting with this, you know, you can do the book with the stories of all your patients and then your story.
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Indeed.
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Indeed.
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At some point, perhaps some help.
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It's in the works.
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That's another combo.
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Yeah.
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Now, conventional medicine will look at the symptoms that come from being stuck in a stress response, right?
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Whether it's fatigue or pain or insomnia or weight.
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We do, yeah.
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That's I feel like that's anxiety, go-to depression, all that stuff, right?
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And if which I'm not against symptomatic treatment, right?
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But like so, you go to your doctor and you've got um sleep problems or anxiety.
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Well, you know, take this med for that, and this, and if you're lucky enough to pick the right drug, I mean, you might cover up the symptom, but you haven't fixed the underlying problem, right?
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And this damage persists over time, right?
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So using meds or herbs, right?
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I mean, whether either I mean supplement anything, right?
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Right.
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If you're just covering up the symptom, you're kind of like putting a little piece of tape over the check engine in your car, that check engine light, and and obviously not fixing the problem.
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And it can get worse over time.
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Yeah.
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Now that's kind of confusing enough for a lot of us, right?
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But it's worse than that because when you're stuck in fight or flight, you're suppressing some pretty important stuff, right?
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Um, because you're going to activate the organs that'll save your life, right?
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Your heart, your lungs, your sugar metabolism, right?
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There's four major organs that we suppress uh when we're in stress physiology: immune, digestive, reproductive, thyroid.
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And we know that.
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That's conventional research, right?
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We know that.
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And it makes sense too, right?
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You're fighting a tiger.
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You don't want to waste energy with inflammation or fighting a chronic infection, right?
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Don't don't waste energy digesting, absorbing.
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Don't really want you to have a bowel movement right now, like there's a tiger.
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Same thing with your ovarian hormones, right?
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We don't care about your periods or your sex life, or don't really want you to procreate, right?
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There's this tiger.
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What we also know, which I didn't learn about in med school, it was kind of afterwards, was that excess cortisol goes to the hypothalamic pituitary thyroid hormone axis and suppresses it at every level it possibly can.
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Oh, at every I didn't know that either.
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I knew that it it definitely suppresses, but I didn't know it would be every level.
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It's wild the way that works.
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It even goes so far as to convince the thyroid to release an inactive form of thyroid hormone called reverse T3.
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Verse, right, right, right.
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Right.
00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:05.009
Um, just in case it missed blunting the thyroid hormone anywhere else.
00:16:05.170 --> 00:16:10.210
Let's release this inactive format thyroid hormone, bind up all the receptors so it really doesn't work.
00:16:10.450 --> 00:16:12.850
So then now things work right, right.
00:16:13.009 --> 00:16:16.129
So now, of course, you do that once in a while, it'll save your life, right?
00:16:16.290 --> 00:16:26.690
Conserve energy here, deal with the threat, turn that stuff back on later, do it chronically, you're gonna have all these immune problems, digestive problems, reproductive hormone problems, thyroid problems.
00:16:27.009 --> 00:16:33.810
But what's happening on a bigger scale is that you're suppressing the organs that we use for healing and repair.
00:16:34.370 --> 00:16:44.930
So we've got this kind of physiologic equation over the months and years and decades, sometimes of excess wear and tear coupled with suppressed healing and repair.
00:16:45.810 --> 00:16:49.330
Not a great equation for good health and vitality.
00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:51.730
Because that your body's just not able to heal.
00:16:52.050 --> 00:16:52.850
It won't.
00:16:53.090 --> 00:16:55.009
Even from a genetic standpoint, right?
00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:59.649
If we talk about the genetic, like you're you total genetic switch, epigenetic switch, right?
00:16:59.730 --> 00:17:01.810
When you're in fight or flight, you're geared up for survival.
00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:08.289
You don't care about healing or repairing bones or growing hair or like all that stuff is shut off.
00:17:08.529 --> 00:17:13.170
So the the ultimate goal is we've got to shift this physiology, right?
00:17:13.329 --> 00:17:15.730
Turn off the wear and tear, turn on the healing and repair.
00:17:15.970 --> 00:17:23.089
So from a naturopathic standpoint, to me, you know, we talk about the healing power of nature, which is which is good.
00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:25.089
We can use herbs and vitamins and things like that.
00:17:25.250 --> 00:17:26.129
That's nature.
00:17:26.450 --> 00:17:30.529
But to me, turning on this physiology, right?
00:17:30.609 --> 00:17:38.529
That rest and digest healing and repair state of physiology is initiating, you know, our body's own healing and repair mechanisms.
00:17:38.609 --> 00:17:40.849
And I mean, that's what heals people.
00:17:41.009 --> 00:17:46.449
Like I've got all kinds of vitamins I can give people and herbs and things, but supplements.
00:17:46.689 --> 00:17:50.769
I I tell patients that like supplements don't fix you, right?
00:17:50.929 --> 00:17:53.730
Supplements are they're kind of aptly named, right?
00:17:53.809 --> 00:17:56.209
They're supplemental to a bunch of other stuff.
00:17:56.369 --> 00:17:56.529
Right.
00:17:56.849 --> 00:18:01.250
To me, to me, the supplements are like uh it's like we're gonna repair a house, right?
00:18:01.329 --> 00:18:07.409
And you know, we got to deliver all the tools and equipment and lumber and get all that stuff to that job site, right?
00:18:07.730 --> 00:18:12.209
But if nobody tells the crew to show up, nothing happens, right?
00:18:12.369 --> 00:18:14.129
So that's all the supplements and herbs.
00:18:14.449 --> 00:18:16.609
To me, we got to tell the crew to show up.
00:18:16.689 --> 00:18:25.730
We got to turn on the genetic cellular machinery of healing, and that's when we can use all that other stuff that we need to be able to orchestrate healing.
00:18:25.889 --> 00:18:27.169
Um, I love it.
00:18:27.329 --> 00:18:28.929
I love I love being able to shift.
00:18:29.409 --> 00:18:34.369
What do you think has been the number or or or the obviously must have seen patterns?
00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:41.089
What are number one patterns or patterns that that come up for you with these patients or for yourself?
00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:46.289
With regard to this, why they have right, why they have the city.
00:18:46.529 --> 00:18:47.169
No, it's a good one.
00:18:47.409 --> 00:18:53.569
So again, it's that genetic predisposition and enough stress over time to overwhelm the genetics.
00:18:53.730 --> 00:19:00.529
Um in this, I view stress in that we all have just this one stress response system, right?
00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:03.089
The hormones, the nerves, the limbic system, and the brain.
00:19:03.169 --> 00:19:04.609
So I picture it like a bucket.
00:19:04.849 --> 00:19:07.889
Um, you know, we all have a certain size bucket genetically, right?
00:19:07.970 --> 00:19:09.569
Half from mom, half from dad.
00:19:09.809 --> 00:19:11.009
Some small, some big.
00:19:11.089 --> 00:19:17.970
I mean, you can overwhelm anybody's bucket if you throw enough at them, but the bucket wasn't designed for the stress we have today, right?
00:19:18.049 --> 00:19:21.409
It's designed for hardship, like old school stress.
00:19:21.569 --> 00:19:25.809
You know, give me a good old-fashioned famine or a plague or a breath.
00:19:26.529 --> 00:19:30.929
Bucket fills up, jump into fight or flight to deal with it, hopefully.
00:19:31.169 --> 00:19:35.009
And if we live, the bucket drains, we shift out of fight or flight.
00:19:35.089 --> 00:19:39.970
So we turn off the wear and tear, turn on the healing and repair, live to fight another day.
00:19:40.929 --> 00:19:43.250
Most of us don't have stress like that these days, right?
00:19:43.569 --> 00:20:01.009
But we start filling up this bucket left and right, you know, all of it goes into so physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, social, diet and nutrition, toxins, uh, accidents, surgeries, injuries, especially head injuries will predispose somebody.
00:20:01.089 --> 00:20:10.609
But even past trauma, abuse, jobs, relationships, divorces, death, politics, finances, social media, like it all goes into that same bucket.
00:20:11.169 --> 00:20:13.970
So everybody's bucket is a little different, right?
00:20:14.129 --> 00:20:18.289
But I picture um, you know, there's you know, heavy metals, right?
00:20:18.369 --> 00:20:22.609
Mercury would be in there, or Candida would be in that bucket, a layer in that bucket.
00:20:22.849 --> 00:20:25.089
Um, you know, but everything's in there.
00:20:26.049 --> 00:20:37.569
In addition to all that various stuff, people who develop adrenal fatigue tend to kind of be cut from the same cloth, in that we're pretty good at filling up our bucket on our own, right?
00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:43.169
So we can be a little more caring, um, a little more sensitive, maybe.
00:20:43.409 --> 00:20:45.730
Um we're doers, right?
00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:52.769
And because we care about what we do, we tend to do things well, and then uh then people ask us to do things because we do things well, and then that feels good.
00:20:52.849 --> 00:20:54.449
And then we do more things, and now we become a little more.
00:20:54.769 --> 00:20:57.089
Oh, but then your your bucket keeps getting you got it.
00:20:57.169 --> 00:20:58.129
We're filling up our bucket, right?
00:20:58.209 --> 00:21:02.929
So overachieving perfection is type A.
00:21:03.009 --> 00:21:05.009
So we're we're kind of good at filling up our bucket.
00:21:05.169 --> 00:21:22.209
Not that it's you're saying that some there's a lot of individuals that are in this category of chronic fatigue, adrenal to chronic that have this, you know, these other ancillary things, but addition also have a similar behavior.
00:21:22.769 --> 00:21:27.009
Um that's that I that's a whole other way of talking.
00:21:27.169 --> 00:21:40.529
I wasn't even going into the psychological behavioral part because I've even so like um just seeing like patients or clients that I'll see, you know, I'll have them kind of give me an idea, like I'll try to find out their behavior um or their learning style.
00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:50.769
And it's interesting that you say that specifically, or majority of the patients you're saying, or clients that you see have a very similar pattern or similar personality.
00:21:51.009 --> 00:21:53.409
They do per personality or behavior, behavior.
00:21:53.649 --> 00:21:59.490
Every bit is behavior, it's behavior, a little bit, a little bit of personality too, but um, yeah, behaviors and that's interesting.
00:21:59.809 --> 00:22:02.449
They might have served us uh in the past, right?
00:22:02.529 --> 00:22:06.049
But it they can get us, they can get us in trouble uh in times, right?
00:22:06.129 --> 00:22:11.490
So so part of what we have to do is you know pay at least a little bit of attention to that.
00:22:11.970 --> 00:22:22.929
Um I was just having a a conversation with some coaches that I'm training for this, and they um we were talking about how uh uh people who develop adrenal fatigue had tend to be a little more sensitive.
00:22:23.169 --> 00:22:24.449
Sensitive than the average person.
00:22:26.369 --> 00:22:29.250
Is that like empathic sensitive or just sensitive in general?
00:22:29.569 --> 00:22:33.250
In general, but including uh including empathic.
00:22:33.409 --> 00:22:36.209
Um and I and uh there's this question, right?
00:22:36.369 --> 00:22:43.569
Well, is it is it that the adrenal fatigue causes the sensitivity, or are just sensitive people more prone to adrenal fatigue?
00:22:43.649 --> 00:22:46.529
And my answer to that is that's so interesting.
00:22:46.849 --> 00:22:47.649
Both are true.
00:22:47.970 --> 00:22:48.849
It's like a chicken egg.
00:22:49.169 --> 00:23:01.569
Both are true, yeah, because when we know that with stress over time, um when we keep hitting this limbic system with stress hormone, it becomes trigger happy, it becomes sensitized.
00:23:01.730 --> 00:23:14.769
And in the research, they call that central sensitization for the central nervous system, where now the limbic system is, you know, those minor stressors aren't generating a measured response, they're generating a heightened response.
00:23:14.929 --> 00:23:21.009
Well, that sensitization actually happens throughout the nervous system, including even the sensory nerves.
00:23:21.329 --> 00:23:32.529
So by the time patients come into me, and it's been long enough, a lot of them are, you know, they're like, I'm sensitive to these bright lights, Doc, and loud sounds bother me, and harsh chemicals and smells, even touch.
00:23:32.849 --> 00:23:41.809
You touch one of my patients, and their limbic system registers it as pain, which to a large degree is fibromyalgia, right?
00:23:41.970 --> 00:23:43.569
Because I mean, what is fibromyalgia?
00:23:43.730 --> 00:23:45.009
Like it's a name, right?
00:23:45.169 --> 00:23:48.129
You know, four pounds of pressure and 11 out of 18 tender points.
00:23:48.369 --> 00:23:50.209
I don't know, that doesn't mean anything to me.
00:23:50.369 --> 00:23:53.169
I want to know about why on earth would that happen?
00:23:53.329 --> 00:23:56.129
Why can I just touch somebody and they feel pain?
00:23:56.289 --> 00:24:02.289
This sensitization is part of that, so we become sensitive on so many levels, uh, as a matter of fact.
00:24:02.449 --> 00:24:03.329
I mean, it makes sense.
00:24:03.409 --> 00:24:07.490
The energetic like um pathways are just like probably on fire.
00:24:07.889 --> 00:24:09.089
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:24:09.250 --> 00:24:13.329
That you know, we just tend to overperceive everything, right?
00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:18.849
Which is tough because I mean, and the limbic system's trying to protect us, right?
00:24:18.929 --> 00:24:21.089
From you know, but it's not very evolved, right?
00:24:21.169 --> 00:24:25.809
It still thinks we're living in the plains of Africa, you know, being stalked by a lion, right?
00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:28.449
Where if you were hyper-vigilant, like that would save your life.
00:24:28.529 --> 00:24:35.970
Like you want your pupils to dilate, your ears to be hyper-acoustic, you know, the faster you detect a lion, the better your chance of survival.
00:24:36.289 --> 00:24:38.209
You know, we don't live that way anymore.
00:24:38.289 --> 00:24:45.009
We live in today's world, which is loud and toxic and fast-paced and obnoxious a lot of times, right?
00:24:45.089 --> 00:24:49.730
So we bombard this sensitized system, I mean, left and right.
00:24:49.889 --> 00:24:51.329
Um, so it's tough.
00:24:51.490 --> 00:24:52.129
Uh, it's tough.
00:24:52.209 --> 00:24:54.849
We've got to create some space in people's bucket.
00:24:54.929 --> 00:24:56.289
And, you know, we want to hit that.
00:24:56.369 --> 00:25:08.769
I mean, the what the only way that I've figured out how to do this is kind of look at try to determine what everybody's therapeutic puzzle looks like from this perspective, because they all they're all different, right?
00:25:08.849 --> 00:25:09.730
We're all a little different.
00:25:09.889 --> 00:25:33.329
I mean, the physiology is the same, so there's some commonality, but figure out what that therapeutic puzzle looks like, again, in the direction of fixing this underlying problem, not necessarily chasing after symptoms, not even necessarily chasing after these uh secondary or tertiary dysfunctions, because it it it a lot of times trying to fix these problems, right?
00:25:33.649 --> 00:25:41.329
The immune, the gut, the hormones, all that stuff, trying to fix those problems while your body is still purposely suppressing them.
00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:46.609
It's kind of like trying to push a car that has a parking brake still engaged, right?
00:25:46.769 --> 00:25:53.730
Like kind of release that release that brake, and then those systems can turn on on their own, right?
00:25:53.889 --> 00:25:55.889
Let's turn on the vagus nerve, right?
00:25:55.970 --> 00:25:57.889
And then maybe the gut has a chance to work, right?
00:25:57.970 --> 00:25:58.369
Stuff like that.
00:25:58.769 --> 00:26:01.970
That I mean it it makes a lot of sense as how how you're placing it.
00:26:02.049 --> 00:26:12.529
I mean, and from my work from just this I called stress transformation, I didn't even think of where you're going with the other parts or not even coming on, you know.
00:26:12.689 --> 00:26:21.409
So I it's another avenue um that I'm even gonna look in perspective because I mean I just did it out of necessity to learn for my own.
00:26:21.649 --> 00:26:29.009
And I I don't even think I even went to the right people to to teach me initially or to learn, you know, to to get the right answers.
00:26:29.089 --> 00:26:31.009
So yeah, I think it's quite interesting.
00:26:31.329 --> 00:26:34.129
It's funny, and we were you know so we're talking about a a book, right?
00:26:34.369 --> 00:26:39.889
Like, well, I need to be able to write this book because the the information and the research is all out there.
00:26:40.209 --> 00:26:43.250
Oh, so for yeah, just video it like uh what's it called?
00:26:43.409 --> 00:26:47.409
Uh I speak it on a on a and have someone transcribe it, a computer transcribe it.
00:26:47.649 --> 00:26:48.049
You should do that.
00:26:48.129 --> 00:26:49.970
I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna that's what I do.
00:26:51.009 --> 00:26:53.329
I'll get some tips from you on how to make this happen.
00:26:53.970 --> 00:26:56.049
Because the information is all there.
00:26:56.449 --> 00:26:59.409
It's just in so many disparate places.
00:26:59.569 --> 00:27:05.169
Like you can uh, you know, you can talk about the you know, to the neurologists or the psychiatrists, right?
00:27:05.250 --> 00:27:08.209
Or the neuroscientists or the cardiologists.
00:27:08.369 --> 00:27:27.409
I mean, the research on stress and digestive problems, cardiovascular problems, immune system problems, all that stuff, even the central sensitization, the dysautonomia, the the adrenals, like you know, basically just the need is there, right, to tie this stuff together.
00:27:27.490 --> 00:27:29.730
And then um, you know, what does that look like?
00:27:29.889 --> 00:27:40.369
So instead of instead of continuing to chase after all these symptoms, I mean, even depression, right, which is like the number one reason for disability uh these days.
00:27:40.609 --> 00:27:51.569
I mean, if you put a rat in a model of what they call chronic unpredictable mild stress, this cums model they call it chronic unpredictable mild stress, that rat develops depression.
00:27:51.889 --> 00:27:55.250
Pretty sure that's not a psychological problem, right?
00:27:55.329 --> 00:28:01.490
There's when you hit the brain with a bunch of stress hormone, it's very predictable what happens, right?
00:28:01.569 --> 00:28:05.409
We see depression, anxiety, we see insomnia, we see brain fog.
00:28:05.730 --> 00:28:08.849
And we're, you know, and there's originally, you know, and then they're like, oh, that's a pill.
00:28:08.929 --> 00:28:13.970
And you're like, I mean, why are we not looking at the inflammatory response and the stress response that's coming out of that?
00:28:14.849 --> 00:28:17.250
I don't know what it is.
00:28:17.649 --> 00:28:18.209
I don't know.
00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:30.449
I'm not I that's why I'm like, I love meeting individuals like yourself and individuals that are talking about this different perspective, because it it needs to be like a normal conversation.
00:28:30.609 --> 00:28:42.689
Like, so mental health providers that are on or those that are listening, like, yes, maybe you have severe XYZ, but there could there's most of the time there's something else in life.
00:28:42.929 --> 00:28:44.769
Well, there can there can be, absolutely.
00:28:44.929 --> 00:28:50.129
And it's not that it's not that we shouldn't treat you, you shouldn't have therapy and and meds, like some of that stuff is necessary.
00:28:50.209 --> 00:28:51.409
Uh course, yeah, yeah.
00:28:51.970 --> 00:28:55.250
Speaking of them uh, you know, too just too narrow-minded, right?
00:28:55.329 --> 00:28:57.089
Like none of this stuff exists in a vacuum, right?
00:28:57.169 --> 00:28:58.289
Everything's connected.
00:28:58.529 --> 00:29:05.889
Um, it just takes takes a lot of time basically to have these conversations with patients and to work on these things.
00:29:06.049 --> 00:29:12.289
And you know, conventional medicine unfortunately isn't they're not set up to be able to to kind of provide that time.
00:29:12.369 --> 00:29:16.049
And that all goes into the psychiatric kind of realm, right?
00:29:16.129 --> 00:29:17.329
Like, oh, that's therapy.
00:29:17.409 --> 00:29:20.209
Like I only get 10, 15 minutes with my patient.
00:29:20.289 --> 00:29:24.129
Like, it's hard to have these conversations, unfortunately, stuck in that model.
00:29:24.209 --> 00:29:27.169
They're they're stuck in a tough, it's a tough model for sure.
00:29:27.409 --> 00:29:29.970
Yeah, that's why I kind of changed my whole practice model.
00:29:30.369 --> 00:29:32.049
Yeah, couldn't handle it anymore.
00:29:32.129 --> 00:29:33.889
I was like, I have to do something different.
00:29:34.209 --> 00:29:35.409
Yeah, yeah, I agreed.
00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:39.730
I mean, I didn't like I didn't grow up as a kid even thinking I wanted to be a doctor, right?
00:29:39.809 --> 00:29:43.250
I just I had problems and nobody could really find answers.
00:29:43.329 --> 00:29:45.889
And I can I can be a little persistent, right?
00:29:46.049 --> 00:29:48.769
That rhino may be a little focused, right?
00:29:48.929 --> 00:29:51.089
And you know, that takes me all the way to med school.
00:29:51.169 --> 00:29:55.169
I it conventional medicine had already kind of not really worked for me.
00:29:55.329 --> 00:29:58.529
Um, you know, they weren't kind of finding underlying problems.
00:29:58.609 --> 00:30:00.929
Like I had high blood pressure and I was 25 years old.
00:30:01.169 --> 00:30:03.730
You know, like take the blood pressure medication.
00:30:03.809 --> 00:30:07.569
I'm like, okay, but why do I have high blood pressure?
00:30:07.649 --> 00:30:10.449
I'm supposed to be in the prime of my life, I'm 25 years old, you know.
00:30:10.609 --> 00:30:18.369
Um, and like, no, just take the and I didn't really tolerate the meds, so it was kind of easy for me to kind of say, all right, I gotta, I gotta figure something else out.
00:30:18.529 --> 00:30:24.529
And you know, nature pathic medicine just uh just made sense because I could get all that other, all that education that I needed.
00:30:24.609 --> 00:30:27.809
I mean, I need you know, all my patients are medicated, so I need all that pharmacology.
00:30:27.889 --> 00:30:30.449
I need to know all that stuff to be able to handle that right.
00:30:30.529 --> 00:30:35.409
Um, but then learn how to, you know, how to heal people and how to really shift this physiology.
00:30:35.569 --> 00:30:37.730
So um yeah, I love it.
00:30:38.609 --> 00:30:39.649
I'm passionate about it.
00:30:39.970 --> 00:30:40.529
That's great.
00:30:40.689 --> 00:30:41.089
I love it.
00:30:41.250 --> 00:30:43.250
I I'm so glad for you to be on the show.
00:30:43.409 --> 00:30:45.569
Um, do you have how can those uh reach you?
00:30:45.730 --> 00:30:54.209
At first, do you have like one quick uh you've given so much knowledge today, but do you have another uh one quick um that you like to leave?
00:30:54.529 --> 00:31:01.970
Yeah, so over the past, I don't know, 10 years or so, as far as my kind of evolution and thinking about this stuff.
00:31:02.129 --> 00:31:06.689
Um, one of the things I'm most excited about is this concept of neuroplasticity.
00:31:06.929 --> 00:31:07.169
Right.
00:31:07.250 --> 00:31:12.289
And you know well, the research, it's phenomenal and so exciting to me, right?
00:31:12.369 --> 00:31:23.569
To be able to change the brain, to be able to rewire the brain, to be able to stimulate stem cells and nerve growth factors, whether that's with um, and there's a variety of tools that can do that.
00:31:23.649 --> 00:31:29.250
Certainly there's um a few supplements and herbs, but also relaxation exercise and meditation.
00:31:29.329 --> 00:31:40.289
But if I had to boil down all that neuroplasticity research that I've looked at in books and things, it'd kind of be boiled down to this one thing of being present, right?
00:31:40.529 --> 00:31:44.609
Being intensely present in each moment, right?
00:31:44.769 --> 00:31:48.449
This concept of mindfulness, which is so incredibly difficult.
00:31:48.609 --> 00:31:56.369
I actually just I was driving, so my son, I had to bring him just work today, and he was late, of course.
00:31:56.529 --> 00:31:59.809
And I uh I'm trying to teach him a lesson, so I'm not gonna wake him up.
00:31:59.889 --> 00:32:01.089
So this now makes me late, right?
00:32:01.169 --> 00:32:05.809
So I'm fortunate because you're trying to get through the day and trying to do your one, yeah.
00:32:06.209 --> 00:32:06.529
Exactly.
00:32:06.609 --> 00:32:08.289
This is the one thing I had to do, and now I've got this.
00:32:08.369 --> 00:32:09.730
So now it messes up my whole day.
00:32:09.809 --> 00:32:14.049
I'm driving back to the clinic in my Jeep, and I'm thinking this is what I'm thinking about.
00:32:14.129 --> 00:32:15.409
He screwed up my whole day, blah, blah, blah.
00:32:15.569 --> 00:32:18.289
I'm like, okay, doc, focus.
00:32:18.449 --> 00:32:20.529
Like, get out of it you're not fixing anything there.
00:32:20.689 --> 00:32:21.490
Just be present, right?
00:32:21.569 --> 00:32:30.529
You're you're in your nice old Jeep that you like, you the top's down, the sun is is beating on your head, and just just be, right?
00:32:30.689 --> 00:32:31.089
Just be.
00:32:31.169 --> 00:32:33.649
So it's it's these reminders that we all need, right?
00:32:34.369 --> 00:32:38.049
It's it's definitely, and then also his suffering is not your suffering.
00:32:38.529 --> 00:32:40.769
So just keep changing the pattern, right?
00:32:40.929 --> 00:32:42.849
You have to help change his pattern, right?
00:32:43.089 --> 00:32:44.769
So that you know what I mean?
00:32:44.849 --> 00:32:49.970
It's like I had to forcefully learn being present because I wasn't present.
00:32:50.049 --> 00:32:53.089
Yeah, and I was to the point of hotly rock bottom.
00:32:53.329 --> 00:32:57.490
So my my obsession with mindfulness is because of necessity.
00:32:57.809 --> 00:32:58.129
Yeah.
00:32:58.369 --> 00:33:02.209
Um, now it's it's just the way I live, and that's why I talk about it every day.
00:33:02.529 --> 00:33:04.049
Yeah, as do I, as do I.
00:33:04.129 --> 00:33:04.609
So I agree.
00:33:05.089 --> 00:33:05.409
You do, right?
00:33:05.490 --> 00:33:07.409
So that's one of the biggest things.
00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:08.049
Yeah.
00:33:08.289 --> 00:33:12.209
And it just becomes something where it's like, okay, he has he doesn't know yet.
00:33:12.369 --> 00:33:13.409
So you gotta teach him.
00:33:13.649 --> 00:33:14.289
Oh yeah.
00:33:15.250 --> 00:33:16.769
But he may not listen right away.
00:33:16.849 --> 00:33:17.730
That's all, you know.
00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:20.449
Well, he's a he's a teacher, right?
00:33:20.529 --> 00:33:22.849
So uh they kind of know everything at that point.
00:33:23.169 --> 00:33:29.409
But I I think I appreciate you saying that being present because, you know, and knowing that we can come back to it when you're not.
00:33:29.730 --> 00:33:30.289
Indeed.
00:33:30.529 --> 00:33:33.409
Because it it's it's uh it's an evolving thing.
00:33:33.569 --> 00:33:37.409
It doesn't just happen every day, you know, every single it's a it's a hard thing, right?
00:33:37.490 --> 00:33:39.889
And I'm you know, I've been doing this for a long time, right?
00:33:39.970 --> 00:33:41.649
But I still will catch myself.
00:33:41.730 --> 00:33:43.569
It's oh better at it, right?
00:33:43.649 --> 00:33:45.409
But it's uh it takes work, right?
00:33:45.490 --> 00:33:46.449
It it does take work.
00:33:46.689 --> 00:33:47.569
It totally does.
00:33:47.649 --> 00:33:50.209
Yeah, it's a daily, it's a it's a every day.
00:33:50.369 --> 00:33:50.769
Every day.
00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:51.730
Indeed, indeed.
00:33:51.809 --> 00:33:52.289
It's a habit.
00:33:52.529 --> 00:33:54.849
So it's such a pleasure having you on the show.
00:33:54.929 --> 00:33:59.409
And first, let's I know I'm gonna have in the show notes your information, but how can they reach you?
00:34:00.369 --> 00:34:02.289
Um, drandre neville.com.
00:34:02.529 --> 00:34:05.409
Um, you can reach out and and uh talk to.
00:34:05.569 --> 00:34:15.570
I even have uh uh my care team, my my uh consultants, um they offer kind of free calls to talk to people about some of this stuff um to see if there's any if a match.
00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:20.769
And but I've got tons of I've got a YouTube channel and Instagram and like tons of videos about this stuff as well.
00:34:20.929 --> 00:34:23.730
So um, yeah, by all means uh reach out.
00:34:23.970 --> 00:34:24.530
That's great.
00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:26.929
And I thank you so much for being on the show.
00:34:27.170 --> 00:34:27.650
Thank you.
00:34:27.809 --> 00:34:28.769
I I appreciate it.
00:34:28.849 --> 00:34:30.130
It was a pleasure talking to you.
00:34:30.449 --> 00:34:36.370
And thank you guys for listening in to the Mindfully Integrative Show and make sure you find a mindful way each and every day.
00:00:25.089 --> 00:00:26.050
Hi, how are you?
00:00:26.210 --> 00:00:26.690
This is Dr.
00:00:26.769 --> 00:00:30.210
Damaris Maria Grossman, and this is the Mindfully Integrative Show.
00:00:30.370 --> 00:00:32.929
And today we have an amazing mindful chat with Dr.
00:00:33.009 --> 00:00:33.730
Andrew Neville.
00:00:34.289 --> 00:00:44.929
He is a naturopathic doctor, an expert, and 20 years devoting to his patients and also the adrenal fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome.
00:00:45.090 --> 00:00:56.290
So I really can't wait for you guys to chat with him and on his perspective and how he's helped heal and give his patients what they need and maybe help one of you that is listening.
00:00:57.890 --> 00:00:58.370
Thank you.
00:00:58.530 --> 00:00:59.170
Appreciate it.
00:00:59.489 --> 00:00:59.810
Yeah.
00:01:00.049 --> 00:01:01.329
So thanks for being on the show.
00:01:01.409 --> 00:01:05.489
And I always kind of say a little fun fact somebody may not know about you.
00:01:06.769 --> 00:01:07.489
Fun fact.
00:01:07.650 --> 00:01:12.290
So I uh I have a thing for rhinoceri rhinos.
00:01:12.530 --> 00:01:12.930
My favorite.
00:01:13.569 --> 00:01:14.049
I don't even know.
00:01:14.209 --> 00:01:15.969
My favorite thing?
00:01:16.049 --> 00:01:16.450
What does that mean?
00:01:16.689 --> 00:01:18.609
My favorite animal is a rhinoceros.
00:01:18.689 --> 00:01:25.810
And I I read a book uh this is decades ago about uh rhinoceros and the symbolism in it is what I liked, right?
00:01:25.969 --> 00:01:35.490
Rhinoceros are their rhinos are pretty docile most of the time, uh kind of state of themselves for the for the most part, but they've got this kind of two-inch thick skin, right?
00:01:35.730 --> 00:01:49.170
You ever see like birds standing up like and as a naturopathic doctor treating adrenal fatigue, which is a condition that's kind of questioned in conventional medicine, you kind of need that two-inch thick skin, actually.
00:01:49.250 --> 00:01:55.810
Um, and they're pretty just kind of state of themselves, but they've got this horn uh just in case uh somebody gets in their way.
00:01:55.890 --> 00:02:02.130
So I've got rhinos here and there actually uh in and around uh around my office.
00:02:02.370 --> 00:02:03.010
Oh, that's cool.
00:02:03.090 --> 00:02:04.290
Yeah, I'm uh I like elephants.
00:02:04.370 --> 00:02:06.689
Those are ones, elephants and turtles, those are mine.
00:02:06.930 --> 00:02:07.890
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
00:02:07.969 --> 00:02:10.770
No, I great symbol elephants as as well.
00:02:10.849 --> 00:02:11.009
Yeah.
00:02:11.250 --> 00:02:13.569
Yeah, those are my top two, usually.
00:02:13.889 --> 00:02:15.650
Um, so yeah, let's get to it.
00:02:15.810 --> 00:02:19.409
So what um I know, so one, you're a naturopathic doctor.
00:02:19.490 --> 00:02:23.969
So those that haven't been listening to my show, what is a naturopathic doctor?
00:02:24.049 --> 00:02:27.009
Most people should know by now because I've had a few of you guys on.
00:02:27.250 --> 00:02:28.049
You're doctors.
00:02:28.210 --> 00:02:32.689
So um, but and where and your specialty is, and then explain what your specialty is.
00:02:32.849 --> 00:02:34.050
Yeah, sure thing, sure thing.
00:02:34.129 --> 00:02:50.849
So, naturopathic doctors, um, there are naturopathic medical schools, right, which is specific where um it's a four-year degree, very similar to conventional doctors, um, where we learn all the didactic stuff, the science um and your your uh you know, pharmacology, biology, all those basic things.
00:02:51.009 --> 00:02:55.330
Um, and then you go beyond that and into clinical practice um as well.
00:02:55.409 --> 00:02:56.530
So it's a four-year degree.
00:02:56.610 --> 00:03:06.289
We're trained, uh I went to school out in Washington at Best Year University, where we are trained and licensed as basically like GPs, um, you know, prescriptive rights and things like that.
00:03:06.450 --> 00:03:19.490
I practice in Pennsylvania, so I practice um a little differently um out here than I would, but we're I I kind of see us as a bit of a bridge between um kind of more alternative medicines, right?
00:03:19.569 --> 00:03:21.009
And conventional medicine over here.
00:03:21.090 --> 00:03:22.689
We kind of you're my integrative bridge.
00:03:22.849 --> 00:03:27.569
You definitely would say, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
00:03:27.810 --> 00:03:37.890
Yeah, I work a lot with um NDs um recently more and yeah, definitely integrative bridge because it needs we need to have that conversation more instead of like uh a competition.
00:03:37.969 --> 00:03:39.409
It's like there's no oh indeed.
00:03:39.490 --> 00:03:43.729
You know, I'm an NP, but you know, um I've noticed in my field I've had to really bridge a lot.
00:03:43.969 --> 00:03:46.210
Like, no, no, there's more out there, there's more info.
00:03:46.689 --> 00:03:51.250
Yeah, that's why I started the podcast at a out of passion, trying to integrate as much as possible.
00:03:51.490 --> 00:03:54.050
Yeah, it it all has its place for sure, right?
00:03:54.129 --> 00:04:00.689
And uh the one thing that drew me to naturopathic philosophy, because I didn't grow up, you know, hugging trees or anything.
00:04:00.770 --> 00:04:09.330
You know, I grew up kind of with a pretty, pretty standard upbringing, um, you know, kind of mired in the the you know, one drug for one disease kind of a model, right?
00:04:09.569 --> 00:04:18.930
And um, you know, it was when I started having problems with with what turned out to be adrenal fatigue, um, where I was looking for answers, right?
00:04:19.009 --> 00:04:22.129
And I can be pretty persistent in trying to find answers.
00:04:22.209 --> 00:04:35.409
And um that drew me towards uh kind of away from conventional medicine and towards uh more alternative medicine, whether it's chiropractic and um it was a chiropractor actually who who mentioned uh naturopathic medicine, which I had never heard of before.
00:04:35.649 --> 00:04:49.169
And once I looked at the philosophy of naturopathic medicine, which is about, you know, finding and treating the cause, um, you know, utilizing the healing power of nature, um, you know, reestablishing kind of the basis for for health, right?
00:04:49.250 --> 00:04:51.729
Not just kind of the treatment of disease, but for health.
00:04:51.889 --> 00:04:57.250
Um, once I learned about that philosophy, I mean, my my kind of path was chosen for me.
00:04:57.409 --> 00:05:03.489
And um, you know, so I ended up going to uh going out to Washington to do my naturopathic medical training.
00:05:03.729 --> 00:05:08.849
It was out there, actually, that I I discovered uh what was going on.
00:05:08.929 --> 00:05:12.849
I discovered my predecessor's book um about adrenal fatigue.
00:05:13.169 --> 00:05:13.489
Okay.
00:05:13.889 --> 00:05:19.329
I had had some uh I had had some symptoms that were problematic and and I had mixed results.
00:05:19.409 --> 00:05:36.129
And I had plenty of practitioners trying to treat, you know, whether it was my high blood pressure with meds or my anxiety or my gut problems or my Epstein bar that would reactivate and people would chase after those things, which actually kind of continued in naturopathic medical school.
00:05:36.209 --> 00:05:47.009
Um, they were brilliant doctors um and very good, but they were kind of dancing around um, kind of what I have learned to be the kind of the underlying cause, right?
00:05:47.089 --> 00:05:53.810
And once I found this this book, which was uh changed, the original version of this was called the adrenal syndrome.
00:05:53.889 --> 00:05:55.810
And he wrote that book back in the 70s.
00:05:55.969 --> 00:06:06.769
He changed the name to Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000, and back in 2000, because adrenal fatigue, if you take that to the nth degree, it can turn into a diagnosable condition, right?
00:06:06.929 --> 00:06:08.129
Chronic fatigue syndrome.
00:06:08.289 --> 00:06:14.449
Um, once I opened that book and read that book, I mean, he described kind of everything that had been going on for me.
00:06:14.609 --> 00:06:18.129
And it kind of put all these pieces of the puzzle together.
00:06:18.209 --> 00:06:26.529
Why the anxiety, why the Epstein bar, why the gut problems, why the food allergies, why um, and my path was forever changed.
00:06:26.689 --> 00:06:28.289
Uh yeah.
00:06:28.849 --> 00:06:30.369
I can I can only imagine.
00:06:30.609 --> 00:06:37.569
And so from there, then it became working on your health, and then now we're helping others.
00:06:37.889 --> 00:06:38.289
Indeed.
00:06:38.449 --> 00:06:38.849
Indeed.
00:06:38.929 --> 00:06:43.089
I mean, it was uh people ask me my story quite a bit, my patients, right?
00:06:43.250 --> 00:06:46.689
They seem to like to know that I've suffered uh alongside them.
00:06:47.089 --> 00:06:47.409
I know.
00:06:47.489 --> 00:06:49.569
I you know, they all want to know why we suffered.
00:06:49.729 --> 00:06:51.649
We're like, yes, this is why we're helping you now.
00:06:51.810 --> 00:06:52.689
That's exactly right.
00:06:52.849 --> 00:06:53.810
That's exactly right.
00:06:54.049 --> 00:06:56.609
Um and like, how long did it take you to heal?
00:06:56.769 --> 00:06:56.849
Right.
00:06:56.929 --> 00:07:00.209
And I'm like, well, I was in med school when I figured out what was wrong with me.
00:07:00.369 --> 00:07:03.009
I had my first child around that same time.
00:07:03.089 --> 00:07:05.409
Like, my fatigue on top of fatigue.
00:07:05.649 --> 00:07:10.209
My my bucket of of tolerance for sure, my bucket was full at the time, right?
00:07:10.449 --> 00:07:10.609
Right.
00:07:10.849 --> 00:07:15.009
So it took me some time, but I was able to, through the book and through talking to Dr.
00:07:15.089 --> 00:07:26.369
Posenecker and actually coming out and doing kind of preceptorships with him and learning things and his guidance, I was able to kind of stay afloat, right, and gradually work on healing.
00:07:26.449 --> 00:07:35.569
Um, ultimately, I did a a residency with him uh for a year or two years before he passed away and then kind of took over um his practice.
00:07:35.729 --> 00:07:41.889
And he had specialized in adrenal fatigue 30 years, for 30 years prior to me even coming here.
00:07:42.049 --> 00:07:44.609
And um since then I've been doing it for 20.
00:07:45.009 --> 00:07:56.129
Really, just kind of my life's work is this effort to help people understand what adrenal fatigue is and and try to catch it as early as possible.
00:07:56.369 --> 00:08:16.209
Um, because it's really a a truly deep kind of underlying cause of a lot of what I would consider even secondary or tertiary conditions, um like my Epstein bar, or um, even the anxiety I was having, or the food allergies that I developed to the kin, those kinds of things.
00:08:16.689 --> 00:08:25.089
These are different triggers that inflat like made an inflammatory response to to this, or it could be multiple.
00:08:25.489 --> 00:08:26.529
It's always multiple, right?
00:08:26.609 --> 00:08:31.729
To me, I see us as having um, we kind of have so so I'll I'll go this way.
00:08:32.210 --> 00:08:32.929
Yeah, let's talk about that.
00:08:33.169 --> 00:08:37.009
Adrenal fatigue is tough because it's uh very poorly understood out there.
00:08:37.250 --> 00:08:40.850
Um conventional medicine does not, they're not taught that it's a thing.
00:08:41.090 --> 00:08:53.409
Yeah, so I feel like on my functional medicine group, even their take on it, they come they do address it, but the the overview is saying talking about how conventional approach doesn't believe in it.
00:08:53.810 --> 00:09:02.210
And I think like I think when you just say nothing, when you put a mask over something and say it doesn't exist, that that always kind of concerns me.
00:09:02.370 --> 00:09:03.649
So it's like, why is that?
00:09:03.730 --> 00:09:05.649
And and explain to us what adrenal fatigue is.
00:09:05.810 --> 00:09:06.210
Yeah, sure.
00:09:06.370 --> 00:09:07.810
Because it does exist, obviously.
00:09:07.970 --> 00:09:12.450
It does exist or whatever you want to call it, yes, there is a stress response that is happening.
00:09:12.690 --> 00:09:13.570
And that's the problem, right?
00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:17.330
It's the you know, like come on, let's talk about the naming of it.
00:09:17.490 --> 00:09:24.050
Um, they're taught that if you don't have Addison's disease, that if your adrenals haven't completely failed, that you don't have an adrenal problem.
00:09:24.129 --> 00:09:25.009
That's pretty much it.
00:09:25.410 --> 00:09:26.290
Right, right, right.
00:09:26.690 --> 00:09:32.930
They they will chase after and acknowledge the symptoms that we associate with adrenal fatigue, which I'll mention.
00:09:33.090 --> 00:09:37.250
You know, even if I think about that logically, if we look at the rest of the endocrine system, right?
00:09:37.330 --> 00:09:40.930
You're you're allowed to have a thyroid problem that's short of complete failure.
00:09:41.570 --> 00:09:47.009
You're allowed to have a problem with your ovaries or testes short of complete failure, not your adrenals.
00:09:47.090 --> 00:09:51.330
Like if your adrenals are functioning at all, it doesn't make you go, you go, it's still a machine.
00:09:51.410 --> 00:09:53.649
Like, why is that all of a sudden just like a standoff?
00:09:53.730 --> 00:09:55.410
All right, it doesn't exist, just like the appendix.
00:09:55.490 --> 00:09:56.290
Oh, it doesn't exist.
00:09:56.370 --> 00:09:58.930
Like I'm just putting out the appendix or the liver.
00:09:59.090 --> 00:10:02.610
All right, something the liver and the pancreas are, you know, why do we have all these?
00:10:03.090 --> 00:10:04.290
That's a whole other conversation.
00:10:04.690 --> 00:10:05.730
Talk about it another day.
00:10:06.050 --> 00:10:07.170
But understood, understood.
00:10:07.250 --> 00:10:09.970
Yeah, so it's it doesn't make it doesn't make sense, right?
00:10:10.050 --> 00:10:11.410
And it didn't make sense to me.
00:10:11.490 --> 00:10:20.769
Um, if we go away from conventional medicine, broaden our our horizons a little bit, look towards integrative medicine, you'll find doctors that believe in it and test for it and even find it.
00:10:21.009 --> 00:10:27.810
But at times it's like they've kind of just grabbed hold of a tail of something that's a little bigger than they anticipated.
00:10:28.290 --> 00:10:40.050
Because the adrenals, if we think about it, um, the adrenals are definitely part of the problem because they're producing the cortisol and adrenaline, which I give a bad rap to all the time because of all the damage that causes, right?
00:10:40.210 --> 00:10:41.410
But it's life-saving.
00:10:41.490 --> 00:10:42.210
Like we wouldn't be here.
00:10:42.610 --> 00:10:44.769
Right or flight or the needs, yeah.
00:10:45.090 --> 00:10:49.170
But the adrenals don't decide whether or not to release those hormones, right?
00:10:49.330 --> 00:10:50.769
So somebody tells them what to do.
00:10:50.930 --> 00:10:55.730
So if there's an adrenal problem, there's got to be a problem with whoever yells at the adrenals, right?
00:10:55.889 --> 00:10:59.090
So, you know, we have to look at the hypothalamus and pituitaries.
00:10:59.730 --> 00:11:02.930
But this gets us to the hormone side of the stress response system.
00:11:03.090 --> 00:11:08.850
There's this other side of the stress response system, which is all your nerves, basically your autonomic nervous system, right?
00:11:08.930 --> 00:11:10.210
Controlling all your organs.
00:11:10.450 --> 00:11:11.889
Those systems work together.
00:11:12.050 --> 00:11:16.050
I tease them apart because treatment and symptoms can be a little varied.
00:11:16.450 --> 00:11:21.170
But neither of those divisions of your stress response system actually call the shots, right?
00:11:21.250 --> 00:11:24.370
The limbic system, just above that hypothalamus, right?
00:11:24.610 --> 00:11:31.410
That kind of deep central part of our lizard brain, like that's the CEO of your stress response, right?
00:11:31.570 --> 00:11:36.530
Constantly looking for and assessing our environment for danger, right?
00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:43.170
Whether that's external environment through senses, perception, internal environment, through chemicals and the blood supply.
00:11:43.250 --> 00:11:47.009
And when it receives that information, it's got to react, right?
00:11:47.250 --> 00:11:50.210
Is this stimulus harmful, dangerous?
00:11:50.370 --> 00:11:51.090
Can this kill me?
00:11:51.250 --> 00:11:54.129
Do I got to jump this body into fight or flight, right?
00:11:54.370 --> 00:11:57.570
Hormones, nerves, or is it the opposite?
00:11:57.730 --> 00:12:02.530
Is it harmless, innocuous, and I can chill out in vacation mode and just let it pass, right?
00:12:02.850 --> 00:12:14.530
Well, what we know is that with a bit of a genetic predisposition and enough chronic stress over time of any kind, that limbic system gets trigger happy.
00:12:14.850 --> 00:12:16.610
It gets sensitized, right?
00:12:16.690 --> 00:12:19.889
So that minor stressors don't generate a minor response, right?
00:12:19.970 --> 00:12:23.090
You've got a minor stress, but it's now a major response.
00:12:23.330 --> 00:12:26.850
So this limbic system's kind of making mountains out of molehills.
00:12:27.090 --> 00:12:33.889
Now we're overinterpreting our environment as dangerous, and we start getting stuck physiologically in fight or flight.
00:12:33.970 --> 00:12:35.730
And to me, this is remember those days.
00:12:35.970 --> 00:12:36.610
Yeah, right.
00:12:37.970 --> 00:12:39.250
Sadly, I do.
00:12:39.330 --> 00:12:45.410
Unfortunately, I wish I wasn't one of your I wasn't one of your patients, but I probably should have and and patients will say that.
00:12:45.570 --> 00:12:47.170
They're like, Well, that's that's what I feel like.
00:12:47.250 --> 00:12:48.450
Like I'm always in fight or flight.
00:12:48.530 --> 00:12:50.050
I'm like, I know that's the problem, right?
00:12:51.009 --> 00:12:53.090
But the stress might not even be there anymore.
00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:55.810
It's just the limbic system is wound really tight.
00:12:56.050 --> 00:12:56.530
Yeah.
00:12:56.850 --> 00:13:07.570
So so the most accurate name, in my opinion, to call adrenal fatigue is actually not a very sexy name, but we would call it a stress response system dysfunction.
00:13:07.889 --> 00:13:09.410
Because it's important, right?
00:13:09.649 --> 00:13:11.970
But I mean, well, then you'd have to write a book on it.
00:13:12.290 --> 00:13:12.769
I know.
00:13:12.930 --> 00:13:19.490
Oh my gosh, I was just having this conversation both with my staff and um a group of my patients where I do these group calls.
00:13:19.570 --> 00:13:20.050
They're like, Dr.
00:13:20.210 --> 00:13:21.170
Noble, um, share this.
00:13:21.330 --> 00:13:23.649
Well, I'm trying to I'm trying to write like a book right now, so I totally know.
00:13:23.730 --> 00:13:26.450
And then I'm trying to do a collaborative with all the guests.
00:13:26.610 --> 00:13:33.649
And um, you know, uh, as we're chatting with this, you know, you can do the book with the stories of all your patients and then your story.
00:13:33.889 --> 00:13:34.370
Indeed.
00:13:34.530 --> 00:13:34.930
Indeed.
00:13:35.410 --> 00:13:36.690
At some point, perhaps some help.
00:13:38.690 --> 00:13:39.570
It's in the works.
00:13:39.889 --> 00:13:40.930
That's another combo.
00:13:41.330 --> 00:13:41.649
Yeah.
00:13:41.889 --> 00:13:48.450
Now, conventional medicine will look at the symptoms that come from being stuck in a stress response, right?
00:13:48.530 --> 00:13:52.610
Whether it's fatigue or pain or insomnia or weight.
00:13:53.009 --> 00:13:53.570
We do, yeah.
00:13:53.649 --> 00:13:57.330
That's I feel like that's anxiety, go-to depression, all that stuff, right?
00:13:57.410 --> 00:14:01.570
And if which I'm not against symptomatic treatment, right?
00:14:01.730 --> 00:14:05.410
But like so, you go to your doctor and you've got um sleep problems or anxiety.
00:14:05.490 --> 00:14:16.129
Well, you know, take this med for that, and this, and if you're lucky enough to pick the right drug, I mean, you might cover up the symptom, but you haven't fixed the underlying problem, right?
00:14:16.210 --> 00:14:19.009
And this damage persists over time, right?
00:14:19.250 --> 00:14:21.570
So using meds or herbs, right?
00:14:21.649 --> 00:14:24.370
I mean, whether either I mean supplement anything, right?
00:14:24.610 --> 00:14:24.690
Right.
00:14:24.769 --> 00:14:34.050
If you're just covering up the symptom, you're kind of like putting a little piece of tape over the check engine in your car, that check engine light, and and obviously not fixing the problem.
00:14:34.210 --> 00:14:36.450
And it can get worse over time.
00:14:36.769 --> 00:14:37.090
Yeah.
00:14:37.410 --> 00:14:39.970
Now that's kind of confusing enough for a lot of us, right?
00:14:40.210 --> 00:14:45.970
But it's worse than that because when you're stuck in fight or flight, you're suppressing some pretty important stuff, right?
00:14:46.129 --> 00:14:49.410
Um, because you're going to activate the organs that'll save your life, right?
00:14:49.490 --> 00:14:52.450
Your heart, your lungs, your sugar metabolism, right?
00:14:52.769 --> 00:15:02.769
There's four major organs that we suppress uh when we're in stress physiology: immune, digestive, reproductive, thyroid.
00:15:03.009 --> 00:15:03.889
And we know that.
00:15:04.050 --> 00:15:05.810
That's conventional research, right?
00:15:05.889 --> 00:15:06.210
We know that.
00:15:06.290 --> 00:15:07.330
And it makes sense too, right?
00:15:07.410 --> 00:15:09.330
You're fighting a tiger.
00:15:09.410 --> 00:15:15.009
You don't want to waste energy with inflammation or fighting a chronic infection, right?
00:15:15.090 --> 00:15:17.649
Don't don't waste energy digesting, absorbing.
00:15:17.810 --> 00:15:20.930
Don't really want you to have a bowel movement right now, like there's a tiger.
00:15:21.170 --> 00:15:23.410
Same thing with your ovarian hormones, right?
00:15:23.649 --> 00:15:28.530
We don't care about your periods or your sex life, or don't really want you to procreate, right?
00:15:28.610 --> 00:15:29.490
There's this tiger.
00:15:29.730 --> 00:15:44.129
What we also know, which I didn't learn about in med school, it was kind of afterwards, was that excess cortisol goes to the hypothalamic pituitary thyroid hormone axis and suppresses it at every level it possibly can.
00:15:44.450 --> 00:15:45.970
Oh, at every I didn't know that either.
00:15:46.129 --> 00:15:49.410
I knew that it it definitely suppresses, but I didn't know it would be every level.
00:15:49.490 --> 00:15:51.250
It's wild the way that works.
00:15:51.490 --> 00:15:57.810
It even goes so far as to convince the thyroid to release an inactive form of thyroid hormone called reverse T3.
00:15:58.210 --> 00:15:59.490
Verse, right, right, right.
00:15:59.649 --> 00:16:00.050
Right.
00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:05.009
Um, just in case it missed blunting the thyroid hormone anywhere else.
00:16:05.170 --> 00:16:10.210
Let's release this inactive format thyroid hormone, bind up all the receptors so it really doesn't work.
00:16:10.450 --> 00:16:12.850
So then now things work right, right.
00:16:13.009 --> 00:16:16.129
So now, of course, you do that once in a while, it'll save your life, right?
00:16:16.290 --> 00:16:26.690
Conserve energy here, deal with the threat, turn that stuff back on later, do it chronically, you're gonna have all these immune problems, digestive problems, reproductive hormone problems, thyroid problems.
00:16:27.009 --> 00:16:33.810
But what's happening on a bigger scale is that you're suppressing the organs that we use for healing and repair.
00:16:34.370 --> 00:16:44.930
So we've got this kind of physiologic equation over the months and years and decades, sometimes of excess wear and tear coupled with suppressed healing and repair.
00:16:45.810 --> 00:16:49.330
Not a great equation for good health and vitality.
00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:51.730
Because that your body's just not able to heal.
00:16:52.050 --> 00:16:52.850
It won't.
00:16:53.090 --> 00:16:55.009
Even from a genetic standpoint, right?
00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:59.649
If we talk about the genetic, like you're you total genetic switch, epigenetic switch, right?
00:16:59.730 --> 00:17:01.810
When you're in fight or flight, you're geared up for survival.
00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:08.289
You don't care about healing or repairing bones or growing hair or like all that stuff is shut off.
00:17:08.529 --> 00:17:13.170
So the the ultimate goal is we've got to shift this physiology, right?
00:17:13.329 --> 00:17:15.730
Turn off the wear and tear, turn on the healing and repair.
00:17:15.970 --> 00:17:23.089
So from a naturopathic standpoint, to me, you know, we talk about the healing power of nature, which is which is good.
00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:25.089
We can use herbs and vitamins and things like that.
00:17:25.250 --> 00:17:26.129
That's nature.
00:17:26.450 --> 00:17:30.529
But to me, turning on this physiology, right?
00:17:30.609 --> 00:17:38.529
That rest and digest healing and repair state of physiology is initiating, you know, our body's own healing and repair mechanisms.
00:17:38.609 --> 00:17:40.849
And I mean, that's what heals people.
00:17:41.009 --> 00:17:46.449
Like I've got all kinds of vitamins I can give people and herbs and things, but supplements.
00:17:46.689 --> 00:17:50.769
I I tell patients that like supplements don't fix you, right?
00:17:50.929 --> 00:17:53.730
Supplements are they're kind of aptly named, right?
00:17:53.809 --> 00:17:56.209
They're supplemental to a bunch of other stuff.
00:17:56.369 --> 00:17:56.529
Right.
00:17:56.849 --> 00:18:01.250
To me, to me, the supplements are like uh it's like we're gonna repair a house, right?
00:18:01.329 --> 00:18:07.409
And you know, we got to deliver all the tools and equipment and lumber and get all that stuff to that job site, right?
00:18:07.730 --> 00:18:12.209
But if nobody tells the crew to show up, nothing happens, right?
00:18:12.369 --> 00:18:14.129
So that's all the supplements and herbs.
00:18:14.449 --> 00:18:16.609
To me, we got to tell the crew to show up.
00:18:16.689 --> 00:18:25.730
We got to turn on the genetic cellular machinery of healing, and that's when we can use all that other stuff that we need to be able to orchestrate healing.
00:18:25.889 --> 00:18:27.169
Um, I love it.
00:18:27.329 --> 00:18:28.929
I love I love being able to shift.
00:18:29.409 --> 00:18:34.369
What do you think has been the number or or or the obviously must have seen patterns?
00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:41.089
What are number one patterns or patterns that that come up for you with these patients or for yourself?
00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:46.289
With regard to this, why they have right, why they have the city.
00:18:46.529 --> 00:18:47.169
No, it's a good one.
00:18:47.409 --> 00:18:53.569
So again, it's that genetic predisposition and enough stress over time to overwhelm the genetics.
00:18:53.730 --> 00:19:00.529
Um in this, I view stress in that we all have just this one stress response system, right?
00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:03.089
The hormones, the nerves, the limbic system, and the brain.
00:19:03.169 --> 00:19:04.609
So I picture it like a bucket.
00:19:04.849 --> 00:19:07.889
Um, you know, we all have a certain size bucket genetically, right?
00:19:07.970 --> 00:19:09.569
Half from mom, half from dad.
00:19:09.809 --> 00:19:11.009
Some small, some big.
00:19:11.089 --> 00:19:17.970
I mean, you can overwhelm anybody's bucket if you throw enough at them, but the bucket wasn't designed for the stress we have today, right?
00:19:18.049 --> 00:19:21.409
It's designed for hardship, like old school stress.
00:19:21.569 --> 00:19:25.809
You know, give me a good old-fashioned famine or a plague or a breath.
00:19:26.529 --> 00:19:30.929
Bucket fills up, jump into fight or flight to deal with it, hopefully.
00:19:31.169 --> 00:19:35.009
And if we live, the bucket drains, we shift out of fight or flight.
00:19:35.089 --> 00:19:39.970
So we turn off the wear and tear, turn on the healing and repair, live to fight another day.
00:19:40.929 --> 00:19:43.250
Most of us don't have stress like that these days, right?
00:19:43.569 --> 00:20:01.009
But we start filling up this bucket left and right, you know, all of it goes into so physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, social, diet and nutrition, toxins, uh, accidents, surgeries, injuries, especially head injuries will predispose somebody.
00:20:01.089 --> 00:20:10.609
But even past trauma, abuse, jobs, relationships, divorces, death, politics, finances, social media, like it all goes into that same bucket.
00:20:11.169 --> 00:20:13.970
So everybody's bucket is a little different, right?
00:20:14.129 --> 00:20:18.289
But I picture um, you know, there's you know, heavy metals, right?
00:20:18.369 --> 00:20:22.609
Mercury would be in there, or Candida would be in that bucket, a layer in that bucket.
00:20:22.849 --> 00:20:25.089
Um, you know, but everything's in there.
00:20:26.049 --> 00:20:37.569
In addition to all that various stuff, people who develop adrenal fatigue tend to kind of be cut from the same cloth, in that we're pretty good at filling up our bucket on our own, right?
00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:43.169
So we can be a little more caring, um, a little more sensitive, maybe.
00:20:43.409 --> 00:20:45.730
Um we're doers, right?
00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:52.769
And because we care about what we do, we tend to do things well, and then uh then people ask us to do things because we do things well, and then that feels good.
00:20:52.849 --> 00:20:54.449
And then we do more things, and now we become a little more.
00:20:54.769 --> 00:20:57.089
Oh, but then your your bucket keeps getting you got it.
00:20:57.169 --> 00:20:58.129
We're filling up our bucket, right?
00:20:58.209 --> 00:21:02.929
So overachieving perfection is type A.
00:21:03.009 --> 00:21:05.009
So we're we're kind of good at filling up our bucket.
00:21:05.169 --> 00:21:22.209
Not that it's you're saying that some there's a lot of individuals that are in this category of chronic fatigue, adrenal to chronic that have this, you know, these other ancillary things, but addition also have a similar behavior.
00:21:22.769 --> 00:21:27.009
Um that's that I that's a whole other way of talking.
00:21:27.169 --> 00:21:40.529
I wasn't even going into the psychological behavioral part because I've even so like um just seeing like patients or clients that I'll see, you know, I'll have them kind of give me an idea, like I'll try to find out their behavior um or their learning style.
00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:50.769
And it's interesting that you say that specifically, or majority of the patients you're saying, or clients that you see have a very similar pattern or similar personality.
00:21:51.009 --> 00:21:53.409
They do per personality or behavior, behavior.
00:21:53.649 --> 00:21:59.490
Every bit is behavior, it's behavior, a little bit, a little bit of personality too, but um, yeah, behaviors and that's interesting.
00:21:59.809 --> 00:22:02.449
They might have served us uh in the past, right?
00:22:02.529 --> 00:22:06.049
But it they can get us, they can get us in trouble uh in times, right?
00:22:06.129 --> 00:22:11.490
So so part of what we have to do is you know pay at least a little bit of attention to that.
00:22:11.970 --> 00:22:22.929
Um I was just having a a conversation with some coaches that I'm training for this, and they um we were talking about how uh uh people who develop adrenal fatigue had tend to be a little more sensitive.
00:22:23.169 --> 00:22:24.449
Sensitive than the average person.
00:22:26.369 --> 00:22:29.250
Is that like empathic sensitive or just sensitive in general?
00:22:29.569 --> 00:22:33.250
In general, but including uh including empathic.
00:22:33.409 --> 00:22:36.209
Um and I and uh there's this question, right?
00:22:36.369 --> 00:22:43.569
Well, is it is it that the adrenal fatigue causes the sensitivity, or are just sensitive people more prone to adrenal fatigue?
00:22:43.649 --> 00:22:46.529
And my answer to that is that's so interesting.
00:22:46.849 --> 00:22:47.649
Both are true.
00:22:47.970 --> 00:22:48.849
It's like a chicken egg.
00:22:49.169 --> 00:23:01.569
Both are true, yeah, because when we know that with stress over time, um when we keep hitting this limbic system with stress hormone, it becomes trigger happy, it becomes sensitized.
00:23:01.730 --> 00:23:14.769
And in the research, they call that central sensitization for the central nervous system, where now the limbic system is, you know, those minor stressors aren't generating a measured response, they're generating a heightened response.
00:23:14.929 --> 00:23:21.009
Well, that sensitization actually happens throughout the nervous system, including even the sensory nerves.
00:23:21.329 --> 00:23:32.529
So by the time patients come into me, and it's been long enough, a lot of them are, you know, they're like, I'm sensitive to these bright lights, Doc, and loud sounds bother me, and harsh chemicals and smells, even touch.
00:23:32.849 --> 00:23:41.809
You touch one of my patients, and their limbic system registers it as pain, which to a large degree is fibromyalgia, right?
00:23:41.970 --> 00:23:43.569
Because I mean, what is fibromyalgia?
00:23:43.730 --> 00:23:45.009
Like it's a name, right?
00:23:45.169 --> 00:23:48.129
You know, four pounds of pressure and 11 out of 18 tender points.
00:23:48.369 --> 00:23:50.209
I don't know, that doesn't mean anything to me.
00:23:50.369 --> 00:23:53.169
I want to know about why on earth would that happen?
00:23:53.329 --> 00:23:56.129
Why can I just touch somebody and they feel pain?
00:23:56.289 --> 00:24:02.289
This sensitization is part of that, so we become sensitive on so many levels, uh, as a matter of fact.
00:24:02.449 --> 00:24:03.329
I mean, it makes sense.
00:24:03.409 --> 00:24:07.490
The energetic like um pathways are just like probably on fire.
00:24:07.889 --> 00:24:09.089
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:24:09.250 --> 00:24:13.329
That you know, we just tend to overperceive everything, right?
00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:18.849
Which is tough because I mean, and the limbic system's trying to protect us, right?
00:24:18.929 --> 00:24:21.089
From you know, but it's not very evolved, right?
00:24:21.169 --> 00:24:25.809
It still thinks we're living in the plains of Africa, you know, being stalked by a lion, right?
00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:28.449
Where if you were hyper-vigilant, like that would save your life.
00:24:28.529 --> 00:24:35.970
Like you want your pupils to dilate, your ears to be hyper-acoustic, you know, the faster you detect a lion, the better your chance of survival.
00:24:36.289 --> 00:24:38.209
You know, we don't live that way anymore.
00:24:38.289 --> 00:24:45.009
We live in today's world, which is loud and toxic and fast-paced and obnoxious a lot of times, right?
00:24:45.089 --> 00:24:49.730
So we bombard this sensitized system, I mean, left and right.
00:24:49.889 --> 00:24:51.329
Um, so it's tough.
00:24:51.490 --> 00:24:52.129
Uh, it's tough.
00:24:52.209 --> 00:24:54.849
We've got to create some space in people's bucket.
00:24:54.929 --> 00:24:56.289
And, you know, we want to hit that.
00:24:56.369 --> 00:25:08.769
I mean, the what the only way that I've figured out how to do this is kind of look at try to determine what everybody's therapeutic puzzle looks like from this perspective, because they all they're all different, right?
00:25:08.849 --> 00:25:09.730
We're all a little different.
00:25:09.889 --> 00:25:33.329
I mean, the physiology is the same, so there's some commonality, but figure out what that therapeutic puzzle looks like, again, in the direction of fixing this underlying problem, not necessarily chasing after symptoms, not even necessarily chasing after these uh secondary or tertiary dysfunctions, because it it it a lot of times trying to fix these problems, right?
00:25:33.649 --> 00:25:41.329
The immune, the gut, the hormones, all that stuff, trying to fix those problems while your body is still purposely suppressing them.
00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:46.609
It's kind of like trying to push a car that has a parking brake still engaged, right?
00:25:46.769 --> 00:25:53.730
Like kind of release that release that brake, and then those systems can turn on on their own, right?
00:25:53.889 --> 00:25:55.889
Let's turn on the vagus nerve, right?
00:25:55.970 --> 00:25:57.889
And then maybe the gut has a chance to work, right?
00:25:57.970 --> 00:25:58.369
Stuff like that.
00:25:58.769 --> 00:26:01.970
That I mean it it makes a lot of sense as how how you're placing it.
00:26:02.049 --> 00:26:12.529
I mean, and from my work from just this I called stress transformation, I didn't even think of where you're going with the other parts or not even coming on, you know.
00:26:12.689 --> 00:26:21.409
So I it's another avenue um that I'm even gonna look in perspective because I mean I just did it out of necessity to learn for my own.
00:26:21.649 --> 00:26:29.009
And I I don't even think I even went to the right people to to teach me initially or to learn, you know, to to get the right answers.
00:26:29.089 --> 00:26:31.009
So yeah, I think it's quite interesting.
00:26:31.329 --> 00:26:34.129
It's funny, and we were you know so we're talking about a a book, right?
00:26:34.369 --> 00:26:39.889
Like, well, I need to be able to write this book because the the information and the research is all out there.
00:26:40.209 --> 00:26:43.250
Oh, so for yeah, just video it like uh what's it called?
00:26:43.409 --> 00:26:47.409
Uh I speak it on a on a and have someone transcribe it, a computer transcribe it.
00:26:47.649 --> 00:26:48.049
You should do that.
00:26:48.129 --> 00:26:49.970
I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna that's what I do.
00:26:51.009 --> 00:26:53.329
I'll get some tips from you on how to make this happen.
00:26:53.970 --> 00:26:56.049
Because the information is all there.
00:26:56.449 --> 00:26:59.409
It's just in so many disparate places.
00:26:59.569 --> 00:27:05.169
Like you can uh, you know, you can talk about the you know, to the neurologists or the psychiatrists, right?
00:27:05.250 --> 00:27:08.209
Or the neuroscientists or the cardiologists.
00:27:08.369 --> 00:27:27.409
I mean, the research on stress and digestive problems, cardiovascular problems, immune system problems, all that stuff, even the central sensitization, the dysautonomia, the the adrenals, like you know, basically just the need is there, right, to tie this stuff together.
00:27:27.490 --> 00:27:29.730
And then um, you know, what does that look like?
00:27:29.889 --> 00:27:40.369
So instead of instead of continuing to chase after all these symptoms, I mean, even depression, right, which is like the number one reason for disability uh these days.
00:27:40.609 --> 00:27:51.569
I mean, if you put a rat in a model of what they call chronic unpredictable mild stress, this cums model they call it chronic unpredictable mild stress, that rat develops depression.
00:27:51.889 --> 00:27:55.250
Pretty sure that's not a psychological problem, right?
00:27:55.329 --> 00:28:01.490
There's when you hit the brain with a bunch of stress hormone, it's very predictable what happens, right?
00:28:01.569 --> 00:28:05.409
We see depression, anxiety, we see insomnia, we see brain fog.
00:28:05.730 --> 00:28:08.849
And we're, you know, and there's originally, you know, and then they're like, oh, that's a pill.
00:28:08.929 --> 00:28:13.970
And you're like, I mean, why are we not looking at the inflammatory response and the stress response that's coming out of that?
00:28:14.849 --> 00:28:17.250
I don't know what it is.
00:28:17.649 --> 00:28:18.209
I don't know.
00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:30.449
I'm not I that's why I'm like, I love meeting individuals like yourself and individuals that are talking about this different perspective, because it it needs to be like a normal conversation.
00:28:30.609 --> 00:28:42.689
Like, so mental health providers that are on or those that are listening, like, yes, maybe you have severe XYZ, but there could there's most of the time there's something else in life.
00:28:42.929 --> 00:28:44.769
Well, there can there can be, absolutely.
00:28:44.929 --> 00:28:50.129
And it's not that it's not that we shouldn't treat you, you shouldn't have therapy and and meds, like some of that stuff is necessary.
00:28:50.209 --> 00:28:51.409
Uh course, yeah, yeah.
00:28:51.970 --> 00:28:55.250
Speaking of them uh, you know, too just too narrow-minded, right?
00:28:55.329 --> 00:28:57.089
Like none of this stuff exists in a vacuum, right?
00:28:57.169 --> 00:28:58.289
Everything's connected.
00:28:58.529 --> 00:29:05.889
Um, it just takes takes a lot of time basically to have these conversations with patients and to work on these things.
00:29:06.049 --> 00:29:12.289
And you know, conventional medicine unfortunately isn't they're not set up to be able to to kind of provide that time.
00:29:12.369 --> 00:29:16.049
And that all goes into the psychiatric kind of realm, right?
00:29:16.129 --> 00:29:17.329
Like, oh, that's therapy.
00:29:17.409 --> 00:29:20.209
Like I only get 10, 15 minutes with my patient.
00:29:20.289 --> 00:29:24.129
Like, it's hard to have these conversations, unfortunately, stuck in that model.
00:29:24.209 --> 00:29:27.169
They're they're stuck in a tough, it's a tough model for sure.
00:29:27.409 --> 00:29:29.970
Yeah, that's why I kind of changed my whole practice model.
00:29:30.369 --> 00:29:32.049
Yeah, couldn't handle it anymore.
00:29:32.129 --> 00:29:33.889
I was like, I have to do something different.
00:29:34.209 --> 00:29:35.409
Yeah, yeah, I agreed.
00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:39.730
I mean, I didn't like I didn't grow up as a kid even thinking I wanted to be a doctor, right?
00:29:39.809 --> 00:29:43.250
I just I had problems and nobody could really find answers.
00:29:43.329 --> 00:29:45.889
And I can I can be a little persistent, right?
00:29:46.049 --> 00:29:48.769
That rhino may be a little focused, right?
00:29:48.929 --> 00:29:51.089
And you know, that takes me all the way to med school.
00:29:51.169 --> 00:29:55.169
I it conventional medicine had already kind of not really worked for me.
00:29:55.329 --> 00:29:58.529
Um, you know, they weren't kind of finding underlying problems.
00:29:58.609 --> 00:30:00.929
Like I had high blood pressure and I was 25 years old.
00:30:01.169 --> 00:30:03.730
You know, like take the blood pressure medication.
00:30:03.809 --> 00:30:07.569
I'm like, okay, but why do I have high blood pressure?
00:30:07.649 --> 00:30:10.449
I'm supposed to be in the prime of my life, I'm 25 years old, you know.
00:30:10.609 --> 00:30:18.369
Um, and like, no, just take the and I didn't really tolerate the meds, so it was kind of easy for me to kind of say, all right, I gotta, I gotta figure something else out.
00:30:18.529 --> 00:30:24.529
And you know, nature pathic medicine just uh just made sense because I could get all that other, all that education that I needed.
00:30:24.609 --> 00:30:27.809
I mean, I need you know, all my patients are medicated, so I need all that pharmacology.
00:30:27.889 --> 00:30:30.449
I need to know all that stuff to be able to handle that right.
00:30:30.529 --> 00:30:35.409
Um, but then learn how to, you know, how to heal people and how to really shift this physiology.
00:30:35.569 --> 00:30:37.730
So um yeah, I love it.
00:30:38.609 --> 00:30:39.649
I'm passionate about it.
00:30:39.970 --> 00:30:40.529
That's great.
00:30:40.689 --> 00:30:41.089
I love it.
00:30:41.250 --> 00:30:43.250
I I'm so glad for you to be on the show.
00:30:43.409 --> 00:30:45.569
Um, do you have how can those uh reach you?
00:30:45.730 --> 00:30:54.209
At first, do you have like one quick uh you've given so much knowledge today, but do you have another uh one quick um that you like to leave?
00:30:54.529 --> 00:31:01.970
Yeah, so over the past, I don't know, 10 years or so, as far as my kind of evolution and thinking about this stuff.
00:31:02.129 --> 00:31:06.689
Um, one of the things I'm most excited about is this concept of neuroplasticity.
00:31:06.929 --> 00:31:07.169
Right.
00:31:07.250 --> 00:31:12.289
And you know well, the research, it's phenomenal and so exciting to me, right?
00:31:12.369 --> 00:31:23.569
To be able to change the brain, to be able to rewire the brain, to be able to stimulate stem cells and nerve growth factors, whether that's with um, and there's a variety of tools that can do that.
00:31:23.649 --> 00:31:29.250
Certainly there's um a few supplements and herbs, but also relaxation exercise and meditation.
00:31:29.329 --> 00:31:40.289
But if I had to boil down all that neuroplasticity research that I've looked at in books and things, it'd kind of be boiled down to this one thing of being present, right?
00:31:40.529 --> 00:31:44.609
Being intensely present in each moment, right?
00:31:44.769 --> 00:31:48.449
This concept of mindfulness, which is so incredibly difficult.
00:31:48.609 --> 00:31:56.369
I actually just I was driving, so my son, I had to bring him just work today, and he was late, of course.
00:31:56.529 --> 00:31:59.809
And I uh I'm trying to teach him a lesson, so I'm not gonna wake him up.
00:31:59.889 --> 00:32:01.089
So this now makes me late, right?
00:32:01.169 --> 00:32:05.809
So I'm fortunate because you're trying to get through the day and trying to do your one, yeah.
00:32:06.209 --> 00:32:06.529
Exactly.
00:32:06.609 --> 00:32:08.289
This is the one thing I had to do, and now I've got this.
00:32:08.369 --> 00:32:09.730
So now it messes up my whole day.
00:32:09.809 --> 00:32:14.049
I'm driving back to the clinic in my Jeep, and I'm thinking this is what I'm thinking about.
00:32:14.129 --> 00:32:15.409
He screwed up my whole day, blah, blah, blah.
00:32:15.569 --> 00:32:18.289
I'm like, okay, doc, focus.
00:32:18.449 --> 00:32:20.529
Like, get out of it you're not fixing anything there.
00:32:20.689 --> 00:32:21.490
Just be present, right?
00:32:21.569 --> 00:32:30.529
You're you're in your nice old Jeep that you like, you the top's down, the sun is is beating on your head, and just just be, right?
00:32:30.689 --> 00:32:31.089
Just be.
00:32:31.169 --> 00:32:33.649
So it's it's these reminders that we all need, right?
00:32:34.369 --> 00:32:38.049
It's it's definitely, and then also his suffering is not your suffering.
00:32:38.529 --> 00:32:40.769
So just keep changing the pattern, right?
00:32:40.929 --> 00:32:42.849
You have to help change his pattern, right?
00:32:43.089 --> 00:32:44.769
So that you know what I mean?
00:32:44.849 --> 00:32:49.970
It's like I had to forcefully learn being present because I wasn't present.
00:32:50.049 --> 00:32:53.089
Yeah, and I was to the point of hotly rock bottom.
00:32:53.329 --> 00:32:57.490
So my my obsession with mindfulness is because of necessity.
00:32:57.809 --> 00:32:58.129
Yeah.
00:32:58.369 --> 00:33:02.209
Um, now it's it's just the way I live, and that's why I talk about it every day.
00:33:02.529 --> 00:33:04.049
Yeah, as do I, as do I.
00:33:04.129 --> 00:33:04.609
So I agree.
00:33:05.089 --> 00:33:05.409
You do, right?
00:33:05.490 --> 00:33:07.409
So that's one of the biggest things.
00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:08.049
Yeah.
00:33:08.289 --> 00:33:12.209
And it just becomes something where it's like, okay, he has he doesn't know yet.
00:33:12.369 --> 00:33:13.409
So you gotta teach him.
00:33:13.649 --> 00:33:14.289
Oh yeah.
00:33:15.250 --> 00:33:16.769
But he may not listen right away.
00:33:16.849 --> 00:33:17.730
That's all, you know.
00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:20.449
Well, he's a he's a teacher, right?
00:33:20.529 --> 00:33:22.849
So uh they kind of know everything at that point.
00:33:23.169 --> 00:33:29.409
But I I think I appreciate you saying that being present because, you know, and knowing that we can come back to it when you're not.
00:33:29.730 --> 00:33:30.289
Indeed.
00:33:30.529 --> 00:33:33.409
Because it it's it's uh it's an evolving thing.
00:33:33.569 --> 00:33:37.409
It doesn't just happen every day, you know, every single it's a it's a hard thing, right?
00:33:37.490 --> 00:33:39.889
And I'm you know, I've been doing this for a long time, right?
00:33:39.970 --> 00:33:41.649
But I still will catch myself.
00:33:41.730 --> 00:33:43.569
It's oh better at it, right?
00:33:43.649 --> 00:33:45.409
But it's uh it takes work, right?
00:33:45.490 --> 00:33:46.449
It it does take work.
00:33:46.689 --> 00:33:47.569
It totally does.
00:33:47.649 --> 00:33:50.209
Yeah, it's a daily, it's a it's a every day.
00:33:50.369 --> 00:33:50.769
Every day.
00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:51.730
Indeed, indeed.
00:33:51.809 --> 00:33:52.289
It's a habit.
00:33:52.529 --> 00:33:54.849
So it's such a pleasure having you on the show.
00:33:54.929 --> 00:33:59.409
And first, let's I know I'm gonna have in the show notes your information, but how can they reach you?
00:34:00.369 --> 00:34:02.289
Um, drandre neville.com.
00:34:02.529 --> 00:34:05.409
Um, you can reach out and and uh talk to.
00:34:05.569 --> 00:34:15.570
I even have uh uh my care team, my my uh consultants, um they offer kind of free calls to talk to people about some of this stuff um to see if there's any if a match.
00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:20.769
And but I've got tons of I've got a YouTube channel and Instagram and like tons of videos about this stuff as well.
00:34:20.929 --> 00:34:23.730
So um, yeah, by all means uh reach out.
00:34:23.970 --> 00:34:24.530
That's great.
00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:26.929
And I thank you so much for being on the show.
00:34:27.170 --> 00:34:27.650
Thank you.
00:34:27.809 --> 00:34:28.769
I I appreciate it.
00:34:28.849 --> 00:34:30.130
It was a pleasure talking to you.
00:34:30.449 --> 00:34:36.370
And thank you guys for listening in to the Mindfully Integrative Show and make sure you find a mindful way each and every day.
