00:00:01Addressing Uncomfortable Conversations in the Workplace
00:12:10Member Benefits and Insights
00:23:03Navigating Apps and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
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How can you transform difficult workplace conversations into opportunities for growth? Inspired by Sarah Noel Wilson's "Don't Feed the Elephants," we unpack the metaphor of "elephants in the room"—those unspoken issues that can hinder trust and productivity. Through strategies like building conflict capacity, compassionate curiosity, and intentional engagement, we explore how you can address these uncomfortable truths head-on. Our discussion aims to equip you with the tools to improve team dynamics and foster a culture of vulnerability and understanding.
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McGowan Braebender is an independent, visionary benefits broker dedicated to reimagining employee benefits.
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With a rich history of over 50 years, mb continues to deliver personalized healthcare solutions to complex benefits challenges.
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Our approach, combining customized plan designs with strategic innovative thinking and one-on-one support, ensures comprehensive management of our clients' workforce and their benefits.
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Driven by our commitment to innovation and affordability, mv offers key service areas that empower our clients to navigate their benefits plan confidently.
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Our services include data analytics and reporting, compliance support, population health management, communication, engagement and advocacy.
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Through these services, we not only address current challenges, but also anticipate upcoming trends reimagining the future of employee benefits.
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For more information, contact Matt Heine, executive Vice President of Indiana.
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Welcome to MICE, the podcast where we empower HR excellence, one conversation at a time.
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Welcome back everyone.
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Today we're diving into an insightful book Don't Feed the Elephants by Sarah Noel Wilson.
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Sarah explores the dynamics of difficult conversations and unaddressed issues in both personal and professional relationships.
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The elephants in this context represent the problems, conflicts and uncomfortable truths that people avoid confronting.
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Sarah provides insights into why these elephants exist, how they impact interactions and strategies for addressing them effectively.
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Now this book has become quite the resource for leaders and teams, offering practical advice on handling those uncomfortable situations we often dodge at work.
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And when we talk about elephants, we're not just referring to problems.
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It's about the unspoken issues, those giant topics in the room we don't address right.
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Some examples of these uncomfortable situations are addressing poor performance, giving negative feedback, discussing salary, setting boundaries and so many other situations.
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That can be hard to address is to do the right thing, and I use that core value as my guideline when I am bringing up or addressing issues of favoritism, discrimination or other unfair practices within the workplace.
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This can be exceptionally hard when you are also navigating different work styles.
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Sarah really explores this idea of elephants in the workplace, those unsaid things we actively avoid talking about.
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She uses the metaphor of not feeding elephants to illustrate that when we give these unspoken issues attention or feed them, they grow bigger and more daunting.
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The book dives deep into what these elephants are and why we need to address them before they wreak havoc on team dynamics.
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Sarah identifies that elephants are the unspoken issues we avoid because of fear, discomfort or the belief that avoiding them will preserve harmony.
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These elephants can take many forms workplace conflicts, unresolved misunderstandings or ingrained cultural problems.
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By feeding the elephants, ignoring them, we inadvertently make them bigger and more disruptive Over time.
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They affect trust, productivity and overall well-being, and she breaks down some of the common elephants too.
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For instance, there's the fear of conflict, the tendency to please people or even the assumption that speaking up will lead to repercussions.
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It's like how many times have we been in a meeting where everyone is skirting around the actual problem, saying everything except what needs to be said?
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One of the most valuable parts of the book is how it outlines why we avoid these conversations in the first place.
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Noel Wilson suggests that it's often a natural human reaction.
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We're hardwired to avoid discomfort, especially when it comes to interpersonal conflict.
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But what's interesting is that she says this avoidance can become habitual and even part of the team's culture.
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So the more we avoid addressing issues, the more entrenched these elephants become.
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And that brings up her concept of emotional feeding.
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When we avoid conversations, we're feeding the elephant with emotions like fear, anxiety and stress.
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Over time, this feeding makes the issue more complex.
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But here's the thing the longer we wait, the harder it gets to address it.
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Why do we avoid elephants?
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The book delves into common reasons for avoiding difficult conversations, such as fear of conflict.
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Many people avoid confrontation due to fear of negative outcomes or the discomfort it may bring.
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Emotional safety Addressing an elephant often involves being vulnerable, which can feel risky.
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In environments lacking psychological safety and skill gaps, people might not have the tools or communication skills needed to effectively navigate tough conversations.
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Sarah Noel Wilson really nails it when she talks about the cost of feeding these elephants.
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It's not just about the personal stress for individuals.
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It's about the collective impact on team performance, trust and overall company culture.
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She gives examples of how avoiding crucial conversations can result in a lack of transparency, reduced productivity and sometimes even a toxic work environment.
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And what's really helpful is that the book doesn't just identify the problem, it offers solutions.
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Noel Wilson introduces strategies to recognize when an elephant is present and how to address it without making it worse by avoiding these conversations, the problems don't disappear.
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Instead, they grow and impact various aspects of our lives In the workplace.
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This leads to a decline in communication, employee engagement and team dynamics.
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It can also create a culture where distrust and resentment fester.
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She suggests building conflict capacity within teams, which is all about increasing everyone's comfort level of having tough conversations.
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She provides practical steps for doing this.
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One strategy that stood out to me is the idea of preparing for compassionate curiosity.
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Instead of approaching these conversations with judgment or a set agenda, she suggests starting from a place of curiosity, ask questions like what might be going on here or what assumptions am I making?
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It's about creating a safe space where people feel heard and validated, which can open the door to more honest dialogue.
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That's key right.
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The idea is to shift from avoidance to intentional engagement.
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It's about fostering a culture where addressing elephants becomes part of the norm, not the exception, and noel wilson talks about the power of vulnerability in these moments.
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She suggests that where addressing elephants becomes part of the norm, not the exception, and Noel Wilson talks about the power of vulnerability in these moments.
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She suggests that leaders and team members own their feelings and perspectives when approaching these conversations, for instance, saying something like I feel uneasy about this situation and I'd like us to talk through it.
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She also emphasizes the importance of listening during these discussions.
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One of the elephants she highlights is the tendency to jump to conclusions or assume we know what others are thinking.
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The book encourages active listening, where you not only hear but also understand the emotions and concerns behind someone's words.
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It's a reminder that sometimes addressing an elephant is more about listening than talking.
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That point about listening is so important.
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Noel Wilson discusses that addressing these issues is not about having a one-size-fits-all approach.
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Each conversation will be different depending on the people and the context.
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Sometimes it's about clearing up a misunderstanding, while other times it's unpacking deeper systemic issues within the team or organization, and the process is ongoing.
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It's not like you address the elephant once and it's gone forever.
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Noel Wilson suggests that building a team culture where elephants are consistently addressed requires continual effort and practice.
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Leaders need to model this behavior, showing that it's okay and necessary to talk about tough subjects.
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What are some strategies to stop feeding the elephants?
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Identify the elephants.
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The first step is to recognize when elephants are present.
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This requires self-awareness and a willingness to observe both your environment and interactions.
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Cultivate curiosity.
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Wilson suggests approaching these conversations with a mindset of curiosity rather than judgment.
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By being open and seeking to understand others' perspectives, you can reduce defensiveness, embrace vulnerability.
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Being open about feelings and concerns can help foster a safe space for others to share and engage in honest dialogue.
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Practical conversation techniques the book provides scripts and methods for starting difficult conversations, such as using I notice Statements and asking open-ended questions.
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To encourage dialogue.
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Create a culture of feedback.
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A significant point is the need for organizations to build a culture that normalizes feedback and supports open, honest communication.
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When people feel safe to speak up, elephants are less likely to thrive.
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It's empowering to think that by not feeding these elephants, you're actively creating a healthier work environment.
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One of the most compelling takeaways from the book is the idea that conflict isn't inherently bad.
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In fact, productive conflict is necessary for growth, innovation and building trust within teams.
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The book offers a new perspective on how we view conflict.
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Instead of seeing it as something to avoid, noel Wilson encourages us to see it as an opportunity to connect, learn and improve.
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By addressing these elephants, we can turn what seems like a negative into a positive force for change.
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Wilson encourages readers to become elephant tamers those who proactively address issues rather than allowing them to grow.
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This involves being brave, empathetic and intentional in fostering a culture of open dialogue.
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It means leading by example, showing others that it's okay to address uncomfortable topics for the sake of growth and better relationships.
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And to wrap it up, don't Feed the Elephants really challenges us to be braver in the workplace.
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It's about embracing discomfort for the sake of building stronger, more authentic relationships at work.
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The practical strategies and real-life examples in the book make it an essential read for anyone looking to improve team dynamics, whether you're a leader or a team member.
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The key takeaway is that avoiding conversations doesn't make issues go away.
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It only makes them grow.
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By facing these elephants head-on, we can create a work environment where openness and honesty lead to better collaboration and success.
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Addressing elephants requires curiosity, vulnerability and the right communication tools.
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Creating a supportive environment that values honest conversations is crucial for personal and organizational health.
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If you haven't read Don't Feed the Elephants yet, I'd highly recommend picking up a copy.
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Don't Feed the Elephants is a practical guide to tackling difficult conversations and transforming unspoken issues into opportunities for growth.
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By addressing the elephants in our lives, we can build healthier relationships, more effective teams and more transparent workplaces.
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Wilson's strategies empower readers to confront the discomfort of these conversations, ultimately leading to stronger, more authentic interactions For our listeners.
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If you've had experiences addressing or avoiding elephants in the room, we'd love to hear your stories.
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That's all for today's episode.
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Until next time, remember, don't feed the elephants.
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Coming up next a member spotlight interview.
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Hi everyone.
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Today, featuring our member spotlight with Naira, I have Lisa Mungovan, who's the owner of Mungovan HR Consulting LLC.
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Lisa, welcome, tell us what NYRA means to you.
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Thank you for hosting me, nyra.
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I have been a member for a long time.
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I was a member before it was NYRA, it was PYRA, and I've always relied on it number one to be at to educate me on topics.
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I think that's the biggest one, but the networking is important too.
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I've met so many people through NIRA and have been on committees.
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I enjoy the annual meeting that is held in May, again learning a lot of things, but also just meeting a lot of different people and they work for all different industries, so learning about the industries as well Awesome.
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As far as I know, and you brought up Pyra and I had recently actually learned of that and I was like, oh, wow, that's an interesting fact about how it's evolved in that.
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Lisa, are you a SHRM member?
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Yes, I am, and how?
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Approximately how long have you been a SHRM member?
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Since 2006.
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Okay, okay, how do you feel like there's been a lot of evolution of SHRM in?
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those years, absolutely Early on, when NYRA was first, we actually had resource.
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We attempted the board attempted to have resource pages so that they, our members, could get information, and more of us became NIRA members and SHRM members at the same time so we could get the information from them.
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But yeah, the white papers, the resources, the templates that SHRM has, I get the magazine and I read that and I share it with colleagues as well.
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So a lot of those things.
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I have never been to a national conference, as I understand it.
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They're very large and they have a lot of really good speakers to those as well.
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So I know way back when it was not the case.
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Wow, yeah, that's on my list.
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I have not, either, been to a national and I definitely would like to have that experience.
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This will be a good year.
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It's in Chicago, so it's not too far.
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I know Very close.
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So, lisa, tell us why you chose human resources.
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Well, back when I had graduated from high school, I sat out a year.
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I had everything ready to go to college and I just decided I just didn't want anything to do with it.
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So I worked two jobs and the manager of the grocery store that I worked for suggested I take just one class.
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And so I started in operations management at IU and knew that I liked the way things needed to be managed.
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But then when I took my first HR related class and I had students in there that were most of them were working adults.
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They talked about all the different things that they got to do in HR, and some of them focused on specializing and other ones focused on more of the generalist role.
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It sounded it was a good fit for me.
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I can't agree more with that.
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I think I had a similar kind of experience with just learning about how much what could be involved in HR and all the opportunities.
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So, lisa, what would you say?
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What would be a part of HR, of that, your experience, that you enjoy the most?
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The variety, I think, is you never.
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Most days you want to try to plan, but things change and can change in a minute and in 2020,.
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We experienced so much where everybody said you have to pivot, and I'm thinking but HR people pivot all the time.
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One of my primary reasons is just watching people succeed that don't always think that they can, and, with given the right amount of coaching and training, seeing them just the light shine behind with them, that it's like gosh.
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I did this and I didn't think I could, but I really appreciate you being there for me.
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I think those are the bigger ones.
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Yeah, and that means so much.
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That means so much for that person that might not see that and, yeah, I love that you shared that.
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I thought that was really great.
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Lisa, what would you say are your top three things that you consider to be beneficial about being a NIRAM member?
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And I know you highlighted them at the welcoming of the beginning of our podcast, but what are some other?
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Maybe we have some additional things, but what are those those things you consider?
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The networking is important because we can rely on each other.
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I I've if I need someone that is working in recruiting and I've got a client that needs that and I know that I'm not the best capable person I I do warm introductions to my clients, to them so that they can find the most qualified candidates quickly.
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The education, I think, is just it's ongoing and I've not met an HR person that isn't a lifelong learner.
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We're always eager to learn things and more efficient ways of doing things, because things that have has evolved a lot, and more efficient ways of doing things because things that have has evolved a lot, whether it be the automated systems and the AI and all of those things that are coming our way, but learning how we can then help our employees.
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In my case, clients know how they can be more accepting of it and not be afraid of it.
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But this is how things may evolve and, as we know more, I'm not one to put out speculation from attorneys on some of the laws that may be changing until we know for sure and I've gotten feedback from them that they really appreciate that they don't need a lot of emails that this may be.
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This may happen, like with the new FLSA rules.
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But it's good to know that, and I'm able to get that not only from NYaira, but I attend law webinars and those types of things to keep up to date on things too.
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Yeah, valuable information from all those aspects for sure, and with Naira, I think Naira has done a great job of expanding, educating us.
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Not only is it the weekly or monthly meetings, but the HR Power talk, the legal ease, the membership breakfast.
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Those are all things that were not happening previously.
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I was on the board through 19 and we had the monthly meetings and they were good, but I think now the expansion of a lot of other things are keeping people in our industry up to date on things.
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Yeah, and Lisa, I also wanted to add, for everyone listening too that, yeah, you served as a board member on NYRA and you said that you just said that was back in 2019 timeframe, so you also had that insight and I know me I'm a new board member that has so enlightened me on so many things personally, professionally, all aspects.
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But we're thank you for your volunteerism too, for serving on Naira and your time and and wanted to add that in too so for your experiences that you've had with the monthly luncheons.
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Do you have a favorite speaker that stands out or something you'd like to share, who that is and why you thought they stood out as your favorite, Sure, the most recent ones.
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Dr Martise Hammons, I think, was the one that I enjoyed the most.
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It was very animated, but the message that he was able to convey about biases and helping all of us understand our own biases, whether they be implicit or otherwise, the graphs that he showed and the diagrams that he showed were I'm a very visual learner and so it just really helped me understand that more.
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And as I watched and I watch people so watching at the meetings and I was watching individuals and there were just a lot of aha moments that I saw going on.
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So he's the most recent one.
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Back in 2008, my job had been eliminated from the company that I had worked for and I was just floundering.
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I wanted a company that had the same culture we had built in that particular company.
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But Steve Gilliland was the one that was a keynote speaker back then and he was hilarious, but he just gave us some fundamental things that really aligned with how I, my values, are.
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But then he came back in 2015 and part of his sentence, or statement, or putting sentence, was can you believe it's been seven years?
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And it just hit me as, oh my gosh, I plan to be at this respective employer for two years and then move on into something else at this respective employer for two years and then move on into something else.
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Now I held three jobs at that particular company, but it was just like my strategy was two years and seven.
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He had said seven years and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I just it, it didn't even occur to me, Wow.
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And he said some of the same things that he said back in 2008 and I didn't care, but that was just very eye-opening for me.
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Okay, yeah, that intrigued me.
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That was before I became a member, so I couldn't recall that one with Steve, but I feel like the same.
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I think it's true what you said.
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The observations made by Dr Martiz were.
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I noticed that too in the room, so I'm glad you shared.
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That was one of your memorable speakers for Naira.
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So I have some, of course, I like to add in some fun questions so we can learn a little different side of our members.
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But, lisa, if you could choose one song that you played every time you walked into a room, what song would that be and why?
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I really like Coldplay.
00:21:28.224 --> 00:21:38.683
Got to see them for the first time in 2017 at Soldier Field in Chicago, and the song that I really liked just because of the music and the beat and it's upbeat is called the Adventure of Lifetime.
00:21:38.683 --> 00:21:46.411
The lyrics have nothing to do with human resources nothing at all but I would play it every day.
00:21:46.411 --> 00:21:47.683
It was just very upbeat.
00:21:47.683 --> 00:21:55.608
I was taking my grandson to kindergarten and, at different ages, I would play it every day and we would just bounce around and not sing along.
00:21:55.608 --> 00:21:56.652
It was just the song.
00:21:56.652 --> 00:22:06.555
And when they played it in 2017, chicago had the worst storms come through that day and we were going in an Uber in the storm.
00:22:06.555 --> 00:22:11.847
They had already canceled five of the opening acts and we weren't sure if they were going to play.
00:22:11.847 --> 00:22:13.744
Get there and the seats are wet.
00:22:13.744 --> 00:22:15.289
We've got class left.
00:22:15.289 --> 00:22:19.967
Sorry, sorry, the plastic things over us, just in case.
00:22:20.086 --> 00:22:36.550
And it stopped all the rain stopped and the sky cleared and so they were able to come out and play and they were able to get all the three other sets done, and then it started raining and I'm very safety focused so I'm thinking, oh my gosh, they're on the stage with all that equipment and they want to keep playing.
00:22:36.550 --> 00:22:48.296
And it's like I mean, when they played that song, the crowd just roared and they had cannons that were blowing, confetti, colored confetti all over the place and all the lights.
00:22:48.296 --> 00:22:49.423
It was just a really cool song.
00:22:50.366 --> 00:22:51.028
Sounds fun.
00:22:51.028 --> 00:22:54.848
Yeah, it sounds like fun and I know their tunes are definitely upbeat.
00:22:54.848 --> 00:22:57.506
You'll have to check that one out.
00:22:57.506 --> 00:23:02.503
Yeah, I know some of them, so they are some good tunes.
00:23:02.503 --> 00:23:06.984
I like this question and it's always intriguing to me.
00:23:06.984 --> 00:23:11.842
You know what others would consider to be their top three apps.
00:23:11.842 --> 00:23:15.167
If you could have just three, which ones would those be?
00:23:16.089 --> 00:23:23.602
My three are primarily for survival for me, so Maps is definitely one, google if I need to find something.
00:23:23.602 --> 00:23:36.473
But LinkedIn has been a great app for me, not only for myself to connect with people that I've never met before, but also to share and comment and to grow my business During 2020,.
00:23:36.473 --> 00:23:49.549
I'm a real people person I think most HR people are and it really bugged me that I couldn't go out and meet with people and so I just decided I'm just going to link with people that I've never met, but I thought they had a really cool job, and so that's what I did.
00:23:49.549 --> 00:23:57.144
I linked in with some executive directors of some nonprofits in the area that I'd never met, but I heard really good things about them and they were willing to talk.
00:23:57.144 --> 00:24:00.852
So we did virtual meetings and then after 2020 and we could get together.
00:24:00.852 --> 00:24:04.825
We still get together, so I really enjoy that.
00:24:05.266 --> 00:24:07.450
Yeah, and it is a for a moment.
00:24:07.450 --> 00:24:13.828
I think not that I want to say my age or how old I feel, but I'm like what before apps?
00:24:13.828 --> 00:24:19.226
It's amazing that we have these at our fingertips especially on those, these apps now.
00:24:19.787 --> 00:24:23.392
So I'm just thinking, yeah, it's just fun stuff.
00:24:23.392 --> 00:24:29.491
So, lisa, do you, or would you, or do you have a favorite quote?
00:24:29.491 --> 00:24:41.126
Not necessarily quote, you could be a saying or motto, that that you stand by or that you'd like to share with everybody when I started my business, and I was never one that wanted to open start own business.
00:24:41.728 --> 00:24:51.094
But I found my why, and that was we have so many small businesses in Northeast Indiana that can't afford to have a full HR person.
00:24:51.094 --> 00:24:54.028
They have their administrative person that processes payroll, etc.
00:24:54.028 --> 00:25:16.565
But, as I learned with many people starting businesses, there's this imposter syndrome that lurks in our brain to let us know that we're not necessarily qualified to do this, and so one of the presentations that I had gone to she had presented that imposter syndrome is not a clue that you're unqualified, it's a sign of hidden potential.
00:25:16.565 --> 00:25:22.128
When you think others are overestimating you, it's more likely that you're underestimating yourself.
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:30.468
Yeah, that is I had, that's just.
00:25:30.468 --> 00:25:31.529
Yeah, it's a.
00:25:31.529 --> 00:25:32.471
I like that.
00:25:32.471 --> 00:25:34.134
I like that you shared that.
00:25:34.134 --> 00:25:37.368
It puts a different perspective right.
00:25:37.368 --> 00:25:37.809
It does.
00:25:38.310 --> 00:25:55.516
Yeah for sure it does, and I find that with newer HR people, I've just finished a project where I've been developing a newer hr person and she had, I think, about seven months in retail, 11 months in payroll, but she's bilingual and very talented young lady, um.
00:25:55.516 --> 00:26:03.082
But it was just getting her what she needed, that foundation, so that she could make the decisions and feel confident about it, and I've done that.
00:26:03.122 --> 00:26:42.929
A lot in my role is helping those administrators that either hate HR because they don't know it well enough, but once they get to know it, then it's okay, I can do this, yeah, so yeah, and thank you for I think whoever connects with you or has your guidance, your clients and everything I can even just in the time we've talked, your passion for that and, like you said, wanting to see that through, to develop someone and see that I can see that passion and that's awesome, cause I think that's when that's genuine and authentic from an HR person.
00:26:42.929 --> 00:26:45.692
I think that it can just unfold so many things.
00:26:45.692 --> 00:26:47.681
So, thank you, it's just great.
00:26:47.681 --> 00:26:49.247
Lisa, thank you for what you do.
00:26:49.247 --> 00:26:49.709
Yes.
00:26:50.311 --> 00:27:03.632
And I had the benefit of having good mentors as I was going through my career, and I had some bad bosses too, but I learned from them that I would never treat people that way, and so I try to teach that as well.
00:27:05.721 --> 00:27:07.747
Paying it forward, right, carrying it forward?
00:27:07.747 --> 00:27:09.290
Absolutely yes.
00:27:09.290 --> 00:27:17.288
So, lisa, do you have any encouraging words for someone who's listening that's considering to join Naira?
00:27:17.288 --> 00:27:18.320
I?
00:27:19.203 --> 00:27:20.588
talk about Naira all the time.
00:27:20.588 --> 00:27:22.263
When I meet with my clients.
00:27:22.263 --> 00:27:23.930
I encourage them to consider it.
00:27:23.930 --> 00:27:26.007
I suggest that they come as a guest.
00:27:26.007 --> 00:27:30.511
I have them go to Nairaorg and look at the different speakers that are going to be presenting.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:39.131
I just finished working with a nonprofit and the executive assistant is going to be doing HR, and so I started explaining to her different resources that are available.
00:27:39.131 --> 00:27:46.781
Naira, of course, was one of them, and so she's so excited.
00:27:46.781 --> 00:27:48.126
She looked at Nairaorg, looked at what the things are.
00:27:48.126 --> 00:27:50.435
She's signed up for the annual meeting already and the one thing is encouraging them.
00:27:50.435 --> 00:28:00.409
If they don't want to come because they don't know anybody is, I will meet you and you can sit with us and I will introduce you to people so that you can feel more comfortable with that.
00:28:00.409 --> 00:28:16.463
But if they can just take one thing, just one thing away from the speaker, I have some colleagues that think that they know a lot and we all do, especially if we've worked in HR for quite some time but there hasn't been one speaker that I've heard that there wasn't at least one thing I could take away.
00:28:18.247 --> 00:28:21.172
Excellent and we we, the efforts are there.
00:28:21.172 --> 00:28:30.070
We're trying to our board, trying to work at adding that value for those lunch, monthly luncheons and speakers.
00:28:30.070 --> 00:28:52.829
And, lisa, we appreciate you as a member and in what you've just said and shared about assisting with those new members and making people feel welcome and making people feel that opening that up and helping them interact and talk to people, because while most of us are people, there are some introverts in the room and so that helps.
00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:58.626
So thank you for doing that and what you do to help promote NYRA as well.
00:28:58.626 --> 00:29:03.875
So that wraps up our interview for the Member Spotlight.
00:29:03.875 --> 00:29:07.166
Lisa, thank you so much for your time on this.
00:29:07.166 --> 00:29:08.932
I've enjoyed talking with you.
00:29:08.932 --> 00:29:12.983
Thank you for listening.
00:29:12.983 --> 00:29:14.971
Stay tuned for our next episode.
00:00:01.340 --> 00:00:07.233
McGowan Braebender is an independent, visionary benefits broker dedicated to reimagining employee benefits.
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Our services include data analytics and reporting, compliance support, population health management, communication, engagement and advocacy.
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Through these services, we not only address current challenges, but also anticipate upcoming trends reimagining the future of employee benefits.
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For more information, contact Matt Heine, executive Vice President of Indiana.
00:01:02.621 --> 00:01:07.712
Welcome to MICE, the podcast where we empower HR excellence, one conversation at a time.
00:01:11.221 --> 00:01:12.524
Welcome back everyone.
00:01:12.524 --> 00:01:18.325
Today we're diving into an insightful book Don't Feed the Elephants by Sarah Noel Wilson.
00:01:18.325 --> 00:01:25.786
Sarah explores the dynamics of difficult conversations and unaddressed issues in both personal and professional relationships.
00:01:25.786 --> 00:01:32.932
The elephants in this context represent the problems, conflicts and uncomfortable truths that people avoid confronting.
00:01:32.932 --> 00:01:41.001
Sarah provides insights into why these elephants exist, how they impact interactions and strategies for addressing them effectively.
00:01:41.001 --> 00:01:50.852
Now this book has become quite the resource for leaders and teams, offering practical advice on handling those uncomfortable situations we often dodge at work.
00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:54.953
And when we talk about elephants, we're not just referring to problems.
00:01:54.953 --> 00:02:00.132
It's about the unspoken issues, those giant topics in the room we don't address right.
00:02:00.132 --> 00:02:10.712
Some examples of these uncomfortable situations are addressing poor performance, giving negative feedback, discussing salary, setting boundaries and so many other situations.
00:02:10.712 --> 00:02:31.193
That can be hard to address is to do the right thing, and I use that core value as my guideline when I am bringing up or addressing issues of favoritism, discrimination or other unfair practices within the workplace.
00:02:31.193 --> 00:02:36.092
This can be exceptionally hard when you are also navigating different work styles.
00:02:36.092 --> 00:02:43.584
Sarah really explores this idea of elephants in the workplace, those unsaid things we actively avoid talking about.
00:02:43.584 --> 00:02:52.943
She uses the metaphor of not feeding elephants to illustrate that when we give these unspoken issues attention or feed them, they grow bigger and more daunting.
00:02:52.943 --> 00:03:00.007
The book dives deep into what these elephants are and why we need to address them before they wreak havoc on team dynamics.
00:03:00.628 --> 00:03:08.712
Sarah identifies that elephants are the unspoken issues we avoid because of fear, discomfort or the belief that avoiding them will preserve harmony.
00:03:08.712 --> 00:03:15.913
These elephants can take many forms workplace conflicts, unresolved misunderstandings or ingrained cultural problems.
00:03:15.913 --> 00:03:22.921
By feeding the elephants, ignoring them, we inadvertently make them bigger and more disruptive Over time.
00:03:22.921 --> 00:03:29.747
They affect trust, productivity and overall well-being, and she breaks down some of the common elephants too.
00:03:29.747 --> 00:03:37.923
For instance, there's the fear of conflict, the tendency to please people or even the assumption that speaking up will lead to repercussions.
00:03:37.923 --> 00:03:46.002
It's like how many times have we been in a meeting where everyone is skirting around the actual problem, saying everything except what needs to be said?
00:03:46.644 --> 00:03:52.364
One of the most valuable parts of the book is how it outlines why we avoid these conversations in the first place.
00:03:52.364 --> 00:03:56.612
Noel Wilson suggests that it's often a natural human reaction.
00:03:56.612 --> 00:04:01.812
We're hardwired to avoid discomfort, especially when it comes to interpersonal conflict.
00:04:01.812 --> 00:04:08.086
But what's interesting is that she says this avoidance can become habitual and even part of the team's culture.
00:04:08.086 --> 00:04:13.125
So the more we avoid addressing issues, the more entrenched these elephants become.
00:04:13.125 --> 00:04:16.733
And that brings up her concept of emotional feeding.
00:04:16.733 --> 00:04:23.182
When we avoid conversations, we're feeding the elephant with emotions like fear, anxiety and stress.
00:04:23.182 --> 00:04:26.672
Over time, this feeding makes the issue more complex.
00:04:26.672 --> 00:04:30.869
But here's the thing the longer we wait, the harder it gets to address it.
00:04:30.869 --> 00:04:33.062
Why do we avoid elephants?
00:04:33.463 --> 00:04:39.103
The book delves into common reasons for avoiding difficult conversations, such as fear of conflict.
00:04:39.103 --> 00:04:44.841
Many people avoid confrontation due to fear of negative outcomes or the discomfort it may bring.
00:04:44.841 --> 00:04:50.810
Emotional safety Addressing an elephant often involves being vulnerable, which can feel risky.
00:04:50.810 --> 00:05:00.514
In environments lacking psychological safety and skill gaps, people might not have the tools or communication skills needed to effectively navigate tough conversations.
00:05:00.514 --> 00:05:05.802
Sarah Noel Wilson really nails it when she talks about the cost of feeding these elephants.
00:05:06.324 --> 00:05:09.132
It's not just about the personal stress for individuals.
00:05:09.132 --> 00:05:14.471
It's about the collective impact on team performance, trust and overall company culture.
00:05:14.471 --> 00:05:24.680
She gives examples of how avoiding crucial conversations can result in a lack of transparency, reduced productivity and sometimes even a toxic work environment.
00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:30.266
And what's really helpful is that the book doesn't just identify the problem, it offers solutions.
00:05:30.266 --> 00:05:41.173
Noel Wilson introduces strategies to recognize when an elephant is present and how to address it without making it worse by avoiding these conversations, the problems don't disappear.
00:05:41.173 --> 00:05:50.961
Instead, they grow and impact various aspects of our lives In the workplace.
00:05:50.961 --> 00:05:52.586
This leads to a decline in communication, employee engagement and team dynamics.
00:05:52.586 --> 00:05:55.336
It can also create a culture where distrust and resentment fester.
00:05:55.336 --> 00:06:04.252
She suggests building conflict capacity within teams, which is all about increasing everyone's comfort level of having tough conversations.
00:06:04.252 --> 00:06:07.184
She provides practical steps for doing this.
00:06:07.925 --> 00:06:13.103
One strategy that stood out to me is the idea of preparing for compassionate curiosity.
00:06:13.103 --> 00:06:25.814
Instead of approaching these conversations with judgment or a set agenda, she suggests starting from a place of curiosity, ask questions like what might be going on here or what assumptions am I making?
00:06:25.814 --> 00:06:32.701
It's about creating a safe space where people feel heard and validated, which can open the door to more honest dialogue.
00:06:32.701 --> 00:06:34.204
That's key right.
00:06:34.204 --> 00:06:38.072
The idea is to shift from avoidance to intentional engagement.
00:06:38.072 --> 00:06:44.545
It's about fostering a culture where addressing elephants becomes part of the norm, not the exception, and noel wilson talks about the power of vulnerability in these moments.
00:06:44.545 --> 00:06:48.107
She suggests that where addressing elephants becomes part of the norm, not the exception, and Noel Wilson talks about the power of vulnerability in these moments.
00:06:48.107 --> 00:07:01.173
She suggests that leaders and team members own their feelings and perspectives when approaching these conversations, for instance, saying something like I feel uneasy about this situation and I'd like us to talk through it.
00:07:01.173 --> 00:07:06.069
She also emphasizes the importance of listening during these discussions.
00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:12.944
One of the elephants she highlights is the tendency to jump to conclusions or assume we know what others are thinking.
00:07:12.944 --> 00:07:20.516
The book encourages active listening, where you not only hear but also understand the emotions and concerns behind someone's words.
00:07:20.516 --> 00:07:25.690
It's a reminder that sometimes addressing an elephant is more about listening than talking.
00:07:25.690 --> 00:07:28.485
That point about listening is so important.
00:07:28.485 --> 00:07:34.709
Noel Wilson discusses that addressing these issues is not about having a one-size-fits-all approach.
00:07:34.709 --> 00:07:38.983
Each conversation will be different depending on the people and the context.
00:07:38.983 --> 00:07:49.586
Sometimes it's about clearing up a misunderstanding, while other times it's unpacking deeper systemic issues within the team or organization, and the process is ongoing.
00:07:49.586 --> 00:07:53.430
It's not like you address the elephant once and it's gone forever.
00:07:53.430 --> 00:08:01.350
Noel Wilson suggests that building a team culture where elephants are consistently addressed requires continual effort and practice.
00:08:01.350 --> 00:08:07.603
Leaders need to model this behavior, showing that it's okay and necessary to talk about tough subjects.
00:08:08.245 --> 00:08:11.012
What are some strategies to stop feeding the elephants?
00:08:11.012 --> 00:08:12.702
Identify the elephants.
00:08:12.702 --> 00:08:16.172
The first step is to recognize when elephants are present.
00:08:16.172 --> 00:08:22.213
This requires self-awareness and a willingness to observe both your environment and interactions.
00:08:22.213 --> 00:08:24.163
Cultivate curiosity.
00:08:24.163 --> 00:08:30.048
Wilson suggests approaching these conversations with a mindset of curiosity rather than judgment.
00:08:30.048 --> 00:08:37.510
By being open and seeking to understand others' perspectives, you can reduce defensiveness, embrace vulnerability.
00:08:37.510 --> 00:08:45.011
Being open about feelings and concerns can help foster a safe space for others to share and engage in honest dialogue.
00:08:45.011 --> 00:08:56.870
Practical conversation techniques the book provides scripts and methods for starting difficult conversations, such as using I notice Statements and asking open-ended questions.
00:08:56.870 --> 00:08:58.234
To encourage dialogue.
00:08:58.234 --> 00:09:00.322
Create a culture of feedback.
00:09:00.322 --> 00:09:08.495
A significant point is the need for organizations to build a culture that normalizes feedback and supports open, honest communication.
00:09:08.495 --> 00:09:12.890
When people feel safe to speak up, elephants are less likely to thrive.
00:09:12.890 --> 00:09:19.494
It's empowering to think that by not feeding these elephants, you're actively creating a healthier work environment.
00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:25.253
One of the most compelling takeaways from the book is the idea that conflict isn't inherently bad.
00:09:25.253 --> 00:09:31.552
In fact, productive conflict is necessary for growth, innovation and building trust within teams.
00:09:31.552 --> 00:09:35.471
The book offers a new perspective on how we view conflict.
00:09:35.471 --> 00:09:43.433
Instead of seeing it as something to avoid, noel Wilson encourages us to see it as an opportunity to connect, learn and improve.
00:09:43.433 --> 00:09:49.273
By addressing these elephants, we can turn what seems like a negative into a positive force for change.
00:09:50.019 --> 00:09:57.191
Wilson encourages readers to become elephant tamers those who proactively address issues rather than allowing them to grow.
00:09:57.191 --> 00:10:03.000
This involves being brave, empathetic and intentional in fostering a culture of open dialogue.
00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:11.269
It means leading by example, showing others that it's okay to address uncomfortable topics for the sake of growth and better relationships.
00:10:11.269 --> 00:10:17.129
And to wrap it up, don't Feed the Elephants really challenges us to be braver in the workplace.
00:10:17.129 --> 00:10:23.288
It's about embracing discomfort for the sake of building stronger, more authentic relationships at work.
00:10:23.288 --> 00:10:33.347
The practical strategies and real-life examples in the book make it an essential read for anyone looking to improve team dynamics, whether you're a leader or a team member.
00:10:33.931 --> 00:10:37.923
The key takeaway is that avoiding conversations doesn't make issues go away.
00:10:37.923 --> 00:10:39.447
It only makes them grow.
00:10:39.447 --> 00:10:47.273
By facing these elephants head-on, we can create a work environment where openness and honesty lead to better collaboration and success.
00:10:47.273 --> 00:10:53.072
Addressing elephants requires curiosity, vulnerability and the right communication tools.
00:10:53.072 --> 00:10:59.812
Creating a supportive environment that values honest conversations is crucial for personal and organizational health.
00:10:59.812 --> 00:11:05.332
If you haven't read Don't Feed the Elephants yet, I'd highly recommend picking up a copy.
00:11:05.332 --> 00:11:14.326
Don't Feed the Elephants is a practical guide to tackling difficult conversations and transforming unspoken issues into opportunities for growth.
00:11:14.326 --> 00:11:21.993
By addressing the elephants in our lives, we can build healthier relationships, more effective teams and more transparent workplaces.
00:11:21.993 --> 00:11:32.528
Wilson's strategies empower readers to confront the discomfort of these conversations, ultimately leading to stronger, more authentic interactions For our listeners.
00:11:32.528 --> 00:11:38.267
If you've had experiences addressing or avoiding elephants in the room, we'd love to hear your stories.
00:11:38.267 --> 00:11:40.607
That's all for today's episode.
00:11:40.607 --> 00:11:43.990
Until next time, remember, don't feed the elephants.
00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:50.905
Coming up next a member spotlight interview.
00:11:52.629 --> 00:11:53.250
Hi everyone.
00:11:53.250 --> 00:12:01.365
Today, featuring our member spotlight with Naira, I have Lisa Mungovan, who's the owner of Mungovan HR Consulting LLC.
00:12:01.365 --> 00:12:06.875
Lisa, welcome, tell us what NYRA means to you.
00:12:07.659 --> 00:12:10.168
Thank you for hosting me, nyra.
00:12:10.168 --> 00:12:11.813
I have been a member for a long time.
00:12:11.813 --> 00:12:21.486
I was a member before it was NYRA, it was PYRA, and I've always relied on it number one to be at to educate me on topics.
00:12:21.486 --> 00:12:25.360
I think that's the biggest one, but the networking is important too.
00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:29.394
I've met so many people through NIRA and have been on committees.
00:12:29.394 --> 00:12:42.128
I enjoy the annual meeting that is held in May, again learning a lot of things, but also just meeting a lot of different people and they work for all different industries, so learning about the industries as well Awesome.
00:12:42.970 --> 00:12:52.380
As far as I know, and you brought up Pyra and I had recently actually learned of that and I was like, oh, wow, that's an interesting fact about how it's evolved in that.
00:12:52.380 --> 00:12:55.283
Lisa, are you a SHRM member?
00:12:55.283 --> 00:12:58.726
Yes, I am, and how?
00:12:58.726 --> 00:13:01.909
Approximately how long have you been a SHRM member?
00:13:01.909 --> 00:13:03.392
Since 2006.
00:13:03.392 --> 00:13:13.668
Okay, okay, how do you feel like there's been a lot of evolution of SHRM in?
00:13:13.948 --> 00:13:19.462
those years, absolutely Early on, when NYRA was first, we actually had resource.
00:13:19.462 --> 00:13:33.222
We attempted the board attempted to have resource pages so that they, our members, could get information, and more of us became NIRA members and SHRM members at the same time so we could get the information from them.
00:13:33.222 --> 00:13:42.466
But yeah, the white papers, the resources, the templates that SHRM has, I get the magazine and I read that and I share it with colleagues as well.
00:13:42.466 --> 00:13:44.331
So a lot of those things.
00:13:44.331 --> 00:13:47.703
I have never been to a national conference, as I understand it.
00:13:47.703 --> 00:13:52.169
They're very large and they have a lot of really good speakers to those as well.
00:13:52.169 --> 00:13:55.288
So I know way back when it was not the case.
00:13:55.869 --> 00:13:59.147
Wow, yeah, that's on my list.
00:13:59.147 --> 00:14:04.006
I have not, either, been to a national and I definitely would like to have that experience.
00:14:04.006 --> 00:14:05.230
This will be a good year.
00:14:05.230 --> 00:14:07.044
It's in Chicago, so it's not too far.
00:14:07.044 --> 00:14:08.990
I know Very close.
00:14:08.990 --> 00:14:14.913
So, lisa, tell us why you chose human resources.
00:14:16.321 --> 00:14:20.892
Well, back when I had graduated from high school, I sat out a year.
00:14:20.892 --> 00:14:25.543
I had everything ready to go to college and I just decided I just didn't want anything to do with it.
00:14:25.543 --> 00:14:31.926
So I worked two jobs and the manager of the grocery store that I worked for suggested I take just one class.
00:14:31.926 --> 00:14:39.528
And so I started in operations management at IU and knew that I liked the way things needed to be managed.
00:14:39.528 --> 00:14:46.528
But then when I took my first HR related class and I had students in there that were most of them were working adults.
00:14:46.528 --> 00:14:55.272
They talked about all the different things that they got to do in HR, and some of them focused on specializing and other ones focused on more of the generalist role.
00:14:55.272 --> 00:14:57.327
It sounded it was a good fit for me.
00:14:58.100 --> 00:14:59.719
I can't agree more with that.
00:14:59.719 --> 00:15:08.904
I think I had a similar kind of experience with just learning about how much what could be involved in HR and all the opportunities.
00:15:08.904 --> 00:15:11.509
So, lisa, what would you say?
00:15:11.509 --> 00:15:17.764
What would be a part of HR, of that, your experience, that you enjoy the most?
00:15:19.187 --> 00:15:21.412
The variety, I think, is you never.
00:15:21.412 --> 00:15:28.225
Most days you want to try to plan, but things change and can change in a minute and in 2020,.
00:15:28.225 --> 00:15:33.904
We experienced so much where everybody said you have to pivot, and I'm thinking but HR people pivot all the time.
00:15:33.904 --> 00:15:50.169
One of my primary reasons is just watching people succeed that don't always think that they can, and, with given the right amount of coaching and training, seeing them just the light shine behind with them, that it's like gosh.
00:15:50.169 --> 00:15:54.549
I did this and I didn't think I could, but I really appreciate you being there for me.
00:15:54.549 --> 00:15:56.202
I think those are the bigger ones.
00:15:57.184 --> 00:15:58.727
Yeah, and that means so much.
00:15:58.727 --> 00:16:05.211
That means so much for that person that might not see that and, yeah, I love that you shared that.
00:16:05.211 --> 00:16:07.607
I thought that was really great.
00:16:07.607 --> 00:16:17.548
Lisa, what would you say are your top three things that you consider to be beneficial about being a NIRAM member?
00:16:17.548 --> 00:16:23.826
And I know you highlighted them at the welcoming of the beginning of our podcast, but what are some other?
00:16:23.826 --> 00:16:28.072
Maybe we have some additional things, but what are those those things you consider?
00:16:28.755 --> 00:16:31.485
The networking is important because we can rely on each other.
00:16:31.746 --> 00:16:49.447
I I've if I need someone that is working in recruiting and I've got a client that needs that and I know that I'm not the best capable person I I do warm introductions to my clients, to them so that they can find the most qualified candidates quickly.
00:16:50.208 --> 00:16:57.328
The education, I think, is just it's ongoing and I've not met an HR person that isn't a lifelong learner.
00:16:57.909 --> 00:17:18.541
We're always eager to learn things and more efficient ways of doing things, because things that have has evolved a lot, and more efficient ways of doing things because things that have has evolved a lot, whether it be the automated systems and the AI and all of those things that are coming our way, but learning how we can then help our employees.
00:17:18.541 --> 00:17:20.885
In my case, clients know how they can be more accepting of it and not be afraid of it.
00:17:20.885 --> 00:17:36.891
But this is how things may evolve and, as we know more, I'm not one to put out speculation from attorneys on some of the laws that may be changing until we know for sure and I've gotten feedback from them that they really appreciate that they don't need a lot of emails that this may be.
00:17:36.891 --> 00:17:39.769
This may happen, like with the new FLSA rules.
00:17:39.769 --> 00:17:48.310
But it's good to know that, and I'm able to get that not only from NYaira, but I attend law webinars and those types of things to keep up to date on things too.
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:58.711
Yeah, valuable information from all those aspects for sure, and with Naira, I think Naira has done a great job of expanding, educating us.
00:17:58.711 --> 00:18:06.294
Not only is it the weekly or monthly meetings, but the HR Power talk, the legal ease, the membership breakfast.
00:18:06.294 --> 00:18:10.034
Those are all things that were not happening previously.
00:18:10.034 --> 00:18:20.691
I was on the board through 19 and we had the monthly meetings and they were good, but I think now the expansion of a lot of other things are keeping people in our industry up to date on things.
00:18:21.579 --> 00:18:45.791
Yeah, and Lisa, I also wanted to add, for everyone listening too that, yeah, you served as a board member on NYRA and you said that you just said that was back in 2019 timeframe, so you also had that insight and I know me I'm a new board member that has so enlightened me on so many things personally, professionally, all aspects.
00:18:45.791 --> 00:19:00.701
But we're thank you for your volunteerism too, for serving on Naira and your time and and wanted to add that in too so for your experiences that you've had with the monthly luncheons.
00:19:00.701 --> 00:19:11.480
Do you have a favorite speaker that stands out or something you'd like to share, who that is and why you thought they stood out as your favorite, Sure, the most recent ones.
00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:14.997
Dr Martise Hammons, I think, was the one that I enjoyed the most.
00:19:14.997 --> 00:19:34.567
It was very animated, but the message that he was able to convey about biases and helping all of us understand our own biases, whether they be implicit or otherwise, the graphs that he showed and the diagrams that he showed were I'm a very visual learner and so it just really helped me understand that more.
00:19:34.567 --> 00:19:43.385
And as I watched and I watch people so watching at the meetings and I was watching individuals and there were just a lot of aha moments that I saw going on.
00:19:43.385 --> 00:19:45.191
So he's the most recent one.
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:52.473
Back in 2008, my job had been eliminated from the company that I had worked for and I was just floundering.
00:19:52.700 --> 00:19:56.411
I wanted a company that had the same culture we had built in that particular company.
00:19:56.411 --> 00:20:07.044
But Steve Gilliland was the one that was a keynote speaker back then and he was hilarious, but he just gave us some fundamental things that really aligned with how I, my values, are.
00:20:07.044 --> 00:20:16.007
But then he came back in 2015 and part of his sentence, or statement, or putting sentence, was can you believe it's been seven years?
00:20:16.007 --> 00:20:29.069
And it just hit me as, oh my gosh, I plan to be at this respective employer for two years and then move on into something else at this respective employer for two years and then move on into something else.
00:20:29.069 --> 00:20:32.278
Now I held three jobs at that particular company, but it was just like my strategy was two years and seven.
00:20:32.278 --> 00:20:38.411
He had said seven years and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I just it, it didn't even occur to me, Wow.
00:20:38.411 --> 00:20:45.471
And he said some of the same things that he said back in 2008 and I didn't care, but that was just very eye-opening for me.
00:20:46.472 --> 00:20:49.865
Okay, yeah, that intrigued me.
00:20:49.865 --> 00:20:57.732
That was before I became a member, so I couldn't recall that one with Steve, but I feel like the same.
00:20:57.732 --> 00:20:59.365
I think it's true what you said.
00:20:59.365 --> 00:21:03.087
The observations made by Dr Martiz were.
00:21:03.087 --> 00:21:06.903
I noticed that too in the room, so I'm glad you shared.
00:21:06.903 --> 00:21:09.571
That was one of your memorable speakers for Naira.
00:21:09.571 --> 00:21:17.720
So I have some, of course, I like to add in some fun questions so we can learn a little different side of our members.
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:24.907
But, lisa, if you could choose one song that you played every time you walked into a room, what song would that be and why?
00:21:26.721 --> 00:21:28.224
I really like Coldplay.
00:21:28.224 --> 00:21:38.683
Got to see them for the first time in 2017 at Soldier Field in Chicago, and the song that I really liked just because of the music and the beat and it's upbeat is called the Adventure of Lifetime.
00:21:38.683 --> 00:21:46.411
The lyrics have nothing to do with human resources nothing at all but I would play it every day.
00:21:46.411 --> 00:21:47.683
It was just very upbeat.
00:21:47.683 --> 00:21:55.608
I was taking my grandson to kindergarten and, at different ages, I would play it every day and we would just bounce around and not sing along.
00:21:55.608 --> 00:21:56.652
It was just the song.
00:21:56.652 --> 00:22:06.555
And when they played it in 2017, chicago had the worst storms come through that day and we were going in an Uber in the storm.
00:22:06.555 --> 00:22:11.847
They had already canceled five of the opening acts and we weren't sure if they were going to play.
00:22:11.847 --> 00:22:13.744
Get there and the seats are wet.
00:22:13.744 --> 00:22:15.289
We've got class left.
00:22:15.289 --> 00:22:19.967
Sorry, sorry, the plastic things over us, just in case.
00:22:20.086 --> 00:22:36.550
And it stopped all the rain stopped and the sky cleared and so they were able to come out and play and they were able to get all the three other sets done, and then it started raining and I'm very safety focused so I'm thinking, oh my gosh, they're on the stage with all that equipment and they want to keep playing.
00:22:36.550 --> 00:22:48.296
And it's like I mean, when they played that song, the crowd just roared and they had cannons that were blowing, confetti, colored confetti all over the place and all the lights.
00:22:48.296 --> 00:22:49.423
It was just a really cool song.
00:22:50.366 --> 00:22:51.028
Sounds fun.
00:22:51.028 --> 00:22:54.848
Yeah, it sounds like fun and I know their tunes are definitely upbeat.
00:22:54.848 --> 00:22:57.506
You'll have to check that one out.
00:22:57.506 --> 00:23:02.503
Yeah, I know some of them, so they are some good tunes.
00:23:02.503 --> 00:23:06.984
I like this question and it's always intriguing to me.
00:23:06.984 --> 00:23:11.842
You know what others would consider to be their top three apps.
00:23:11.842 --> 00:23:15.167
If you could have just three, which ones would those be?
00:23:16.089 --> 00:23:23.602
My three are primarily for survival for me, so Maps is definitely one, google if I need to find something.
00:23:23.602 --> 00:23:36.473
But LinkedIn has been a great app for me, not only for myself to connect with people that I've never met before, but also to share and comment and to grow my business During 2020,.
00:23:36.473 --> 00:23:49.549
I'm a real people person I think most HR people are and it really bugged me that I couldn't go out and meet with people and so I just decided I'm just going to link with people that I've never met, but I thought they had a really cool job, and so that's what I did.
00:23:49.549 --> 00:23:57.144
I linked in with some executive directors of some nonprofits in the area that I'd never met, but I heard really good things about them and they were willing to talk.
00:23:57.144 --> 00:24:00.852
So we did virtual meetings and then after 2020 and we could get together.
00:24:00.852 --> 00:24:04.825
We still get together, so I really enjoy that.
00:24:05.266 --> 00:24:07.450
Yeah, and it is a for a moment.
00:24:07.450 --> 00:24:13.828
I think not that I want to say my age or how old I feel, but I'm like what before apps?
00:24:13.828 --> 00:24:19.226
It's amazing that we have these at our fingertips especially on those, these apps now.
00:24:19.787 --> 00:24:23.392
So I'm just thinking, yeah, it's just fun stuff.
00:24:23.392 --> 00:24:29.491
So, lisa, do you, or would you, or do you have a favorite quote?
00:24:29.491 --> 00:24:41.126
Not necessarily quote, you could be a saying or motto, that that you stand by or that you'd like to share with everybody when I started my business, and I was never one that wanted to open start own business.
00:24:41.728 --> 00:24:51.094
But I found my why, and that was we have so many small businesses in Northeast Indiana that can't afford to have a full HR person.
00:24:51.094 --> 00:24:54.028
They have their administrative person that processes payroll, etc.
00:24:54.028 --> 00:25:16.565
But, as I learned with many people starting businesses, there's this imposter syndrome that lurks in our brain to let us know that we're not necessarily qualified to do this, and so one of the presentations that I had gone to she had presented that imposter syndrome is not a clue that you're unqualified, it's a sign of hidden potential.
00:25:16.565 --> 00:25:22.128
When you think others are overestimating you, it's more likely that you're underestimating yourself.
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:30.468
Yeah, that is I had, that's just.
00:25:30.468 --> 00:25:31.529
Yeah, it's a.
00:25:31.529 --> 00:25:32.471
I like that.
00:25:32.471 --> 00:25:34.134
I like that you shared that.
00:25:34.134 --> 00:25:37.368
It puts a different perspective right.
00:25:37.368 --> 00:25:37.809
It does.
00:25:38.310 --> 00:25:55.516
Yeah for sure it does, and I find that with newer HR people, I've just finished a project where I've been developing a newer hr person and she had, I think, about seven months in retail, 11 months in payroll, but she's bilingual and very talented young lady, um.
00:25:55.516 --> 00:26:03.082
But it was just getting her what she needed, that foundation, so that she could make the decisions and feel confident about it, and I've done that.
00:26:03.122 --> 00:26:42.929
A lot in my role is helping those administrators that either hate HR because they don't know it well enough, but once they get to know it, then it's okay, I can do this, yeah, so yeah, and thank you for I think whoever connects with you or has your guidance, your clients and everything I can even just in the time we've talked, your passion for that and, like you said, wanting to see that through, to develop someone and see that I can see that passion and that's awesome, cause I think that's when that's genuine and authentic from an HR person.
00:26:42.929 --> 00:26:45.692
I think that it can just unfold so many things.
00:26:45.692 --> 00:26:47.681
So, thank you, it's just great.
00:26:47.681 --> 00:26:49.247
Lisa, thank you for what you do.
00:26:49.247 --> 00:26:49.709
Yes.
00:26:50.311 --> 00:27:03.632
And I had the benefit of having good mentors as I was going through my career, and I had some bad bosses too, but I learned from them that I would never treat people that way, and so I try to teach that as well.
00:27:05.721 --> 00:27:07.747
Paying it forward, right, carrying it forward?
00:27:07.747 --> 00:27:09.290
Absolutely yes.
00:27:09.290 --> 00:27:17.288
So, lisa, do you have any encouraging words for someone who's listening that's considering to join Naira?
00:27:17.288 --> 00:27:18.320
I?
00:27:19.203 --> 00:27:20.588
talk about Naira all the time.
00:27:20.588 --> 00:27:22.263
When I meet with my clients.
00:27:22.263 --> 00:27:23.930
I encourage them to consider it.
00:27:23.930 --> 00:27:26.007
I suggest that they come as a guest.
00:27:26.007 --> 00:27:30.511
I have them go to Nairaorg and look at the different speakers that are going to be presenting.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:39.131
I just finished working with a nonprofit and the executive assistant is going to be doing HR, and so I started explaining to her different resources that are available.
00:27:39.131 --> 00:27:46.781
Naira, of course, was one of them, and so she's so excited.
00:27:46.781 --> 00:27:48.126
She looked at Nairaorg, looked at what the things are.
00:27:48.126 --> 00:27:50.435
She's signed up for the annual meeting already and the one thing is encouraging them.
00:27:50.435 --> 00:28:00.409
If they don't want to come because they don't know anybody is, I will meet you and you can sit with us and I will introduce you to people so that you can feel more comfortable with that.
00:28:00.409 --> 00:28:16.463
But if they can just take one thing, just one thing away from the speaker, I have some colleagues that think that they know a lot and we all do, especially if we've worked in HR for quite some time but there hasn't been one speaker that I've heard that there wasn't at least one thing I could take away.
00:28:18.247 --> 00:28:21.172
Excellent and we we, the efforts are there.
00:28:21.172 --> 00:28:30.070
We're trying to our board, trying to work at adding that value for those lunch, monthly luncheons and speakers.
00:28:30.070 --> 00:28:52.829
And, lisa, we appreciate you as a member and in what you've just said and shared about assisting with those new members and making people feel welcome and making people feel that opening that up and helping them interact and talk to people, because while most of us are people, there are some introverts in the room and so that helps.
00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:58.626
So thank you for doing that and what you do to help promote NYRA as well.
00:28:58.626 --> 00:29:03.875
So that wraps up our interview for the Member Spotlight.
00:29:03.875 --> 00:29:07.166
Lisa, thank you so much for your time on this.
00:29:07.166 --> 00:29:08.932
I've enjoyed talking with you.
00:29:08.932 --> 00:29:12.983
Thank you for listening.
00:29:12.983 --> 00:29:14.971
Stay tuned for our next episode.
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