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A man walked into a room with a gun, a grievance, and nothing left to lose. The person who talked him down had spent 20 years learning one thing: the moment you make someone feel understood, the whole situation changes.
Meet Derek Gaunt; he spent 29 years in law enforcement, 20 of those on hostage negotiation teams in the DC metro area. Now an instructor and expert coach at the Black Swan Group — Chris Voss’s firm — Derek brings the same tactical empathy that resolved life-or-death standoffs into every boardroom, difficult conversation, and parenting moment he trains. He’s the author of Ego Authority Failure and the newly released Fight Less, Win More — a practical companion to Never Split the Difference. In this episode, Derek joins Jon and Will to break down what tactical empathy really is, why your tone does 13 times more work than your words, and how to get more of what you want by getting people to say no.
IN THIS EPISODE:
1. What tactical empathy actually is — and why 95% of people aren’t getting it anywhere
2. No-oriented questions: why asking for no gets you more than pushing for yes
3. The three levels of listening — and which one most people are stuck in
4. The three voices: accommodator, late-night FM DJ, and the BISS voice to never use
5. The blue flame, ego authority failure, and why rapid promotion creates toxic leaders
More about Derek Gaunt:
1. Website: https://www.blackswanltd.com
2. Book: Ego, Authority, Failure: Using Emotional Intelligence Like a Hostage Negotiator to Succeed as a Leader (2nd Edition) — on Amazon and blackswanltd.com
3. Book: Fight Less, Win More: How Master Negotiators Influence Hearts, Minds, and Deals (co-authored with Jonathan B. Smith, foreword by Chris Voss) — on Amazon
4. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-gaunt-2943a824/
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Produced by Robert Lopez | https://www.cratesaudio.com/
