Kendra Blake: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Mama Thrive. Today I have the absolute pleasure of being joined by Claire Judd. Claire is a therapist specializing in supporting mothers who feel overwhelmed, anxious or caught in cycles of anger and guilt. Through her work she helps mothers understand the deeper emotional and nervous system patterns that are showing up in parenting, particularly the experience of maternal rage which so many women feel but rarely speak about openly. Hello Claire and welcome to the episode of MAMA Thrive. It is wonderful having you here. Thank you for joining me today. ⁓
Claire: Hi Kendra, it's really good to be here and I've been really excited about this conversation because I love the information that you put out and how you talk about care for mothers. So yeah, I'm excited to be here.
Kendra Blake: Well, I want to know a little bit about you then. So everything that I ask in this, I ask with the idea that we're going to have mums listening in as well as professionals. So Claire, could you tell us a little bit about the work that you focus on? It's something that still carries quite a lot of stigma, maternal anger and rage. Can you share a little bit about your own experience of early motherhood and possibly what led you to specialize in this work in this field? Claire's approach is compassionate and deeply validating. She supports mothers in making sense of their reactions, understanding the roots of their overwhelm, and developing healthier ways to respond, both to themselves and their children. am so excited to dive into today's conversation and can't wait for you to hear it.
Claire: Yeah, so yeah, my own experience is absolutely why I focus on anger and rage and motherhood. It's something I battled with for a long time before reaching out for help. And, you know, it started when my eldest was just a few weeks old. it was such like a visceral feeling that I got like having this, I remember like when it first, I remember that very first time she was crying and crying, feeding wasn't going well. Like it just felt like I was failing at everything. And my husband was out at the time. I had been like, yeah, yeah, go out, like go make mom and dad friends and come back and make sure we've got this group. Like I was just so desperate to try and create a group of friends with a baby. So I sent him out to, to see the NCT group and I was just, it just came over me at a hundred miles an hour and I was, it scared me so much because I wanted to just throw her off me. And I remember putting her down in the crib ⁓ ⁓ my husband and saying, you need, you need to come home. You need to come home now. Like ⁓ cannot, I cannot be alone. ⁓ it's still, you know, I can still feel that. emotion when I talk about it because it was such a like afterwards not mentioning anything to my husband like I was very much like I'm upset like I can't do this but I didn't say anything about that feeling and that experience of like literally like I have to put her down now otherwise I'm gonna throw her and just yeah I still feel that sadness for that me that didn't know it was you know, such a common experience have that anger and rage come over you from absolutely nowhere. ⁓ I kept that so quiet. It wasn't until she was about 18 months old that finally everything, I'd returned to work. ⁓ was a teacher then and I'd gone back to work. I was head of department. ⁓ Like I had things coming at me and I was like, you know, so career minded then as well. I was like, I need to achieve, I need to get back in it. I need to prove myself because I've been on maternity leave. And I just absolutely crumbled. But it had been such a journey to get into that crumbling point battling and trying to contain rage at any thing like when. she wouldn't allow me to get her dress for example, you know how they are at like one year old and they just want to crawl about and do everything else apart from what you want to do or you know being upset about getting in a car seat like and it would it was just always there like right under the surface and so yeah that stigma is one of the reasons that I focus on this ⁓ we so alone with it and it stops us reaching out.
Kendra Blake: think that piece is really powerful. I mean, you're naming something there about it being such a visceral experience. This idea that somatically your body, this just felt so overwhelming. ⁓ And think a little bit about ⁓ how of control we can often feel in motherhood anyway, and how ⁓ this overwhelming arises in your body and it's ⁓ the of, don't know how to contain it. When ⁓ what the moment where you realized that this is not just a you? issue clear, that it's not just you who struggles with rage or struggles with anger and motherhood and then decide it's subsequent to that to start speaking about it.
Claire: You know, I don't think it was until I was with the therapist that I stuck with. And I say with the therapist I stuck with because I tried one therapist before her and it just didn't gel and it took me a little while to then find the right person. And once I'd found her, that was when I realised when we were talking about it and she slowly just gave me that space. to talk about the stuff that was actually going on. Because previously, I'd got to the point where I was driving to work and I was like, what if I just drive my car off the road? would be easier for everyone. And it wasn't with suicidal intention. It was just like, that would be the easiest option right now. That would be better for my daughter. That would be better for my husband because at that point I was waking up at like two or three in the morning. sobbing and he would say like what's wrong what can I do and I would just shout at him I'd be like you don't understand like there's no way you can understand all of this so I when I first reached out I wasn't necessarily going for the anger and rage it was like I got to a point where there was no other option I'd been to the GP and they'd given me antidepressants ⁓ that kind of like did it do? It didn't really get rid of the feelings, it just kind of made me feel flatter with it. And I was like, this isn't me either. This isn't, I'm still lost. And that's why I reached out to a therapist. So even when I first reached out, even when I first started therapy, I didn't go and say in that first session, ⁓ I'm really angry. I'm feeling this rage. Like I'm worried I'm going to hurt my child or I grabbed her too roughly when I was putting her shoes on the other day. Like I didn't say of that. It was only in having that kind of nurturing ⁓ where started to come out and I started to realise that it was okay to say that. And her response was so like, yeah, I've been there. And I was like, just ⁓ being like, what? Like, you've been there and I, you know, because I kind of put her on a pedestal as well. And like, ⁓ know, at that point I was like, therapists are different to other people. And just sat there and she just, she just allowed me to cry after that revelation ⁓ just ⁓ how
Kendra Blake: Bye.
Claire: I had been containing everything. And that's, I think that's the moment when I realized, it took a while. And then slowly as I started talking about it more, and that didn't happen straight away. Like I'm thinking about talking to my mum friends and stuff. I didn't just go, do you feel this rage too? Just slowly as I was going through therapy, I just became a bit more confident that I wasn't on my own. And I'd say something to a friend like, my God, when this happened the other day, I felt so like, and just put it into some body based words of like what it ⁓ like. they were like, my God, me too. Like I've had those moments. And so it kind of built up gradually that idea that I wasn't on my own. Yeah. It really takes me back talking about this. ⁓
Kendra Blake: you Yeah. Yeah, I can really see it, Claire. And I think something that really stands out to me is just how disconcerting those first couple of months are in becoming a mum. So much of our sense of self has changed anyway, to let alone start to recognise and reconcile. With that, and now a huge emotional shift, and especially the version of ourselves that we thought or presumed we'd be as mothers is probably what's really sitting there for me. Because I think in part what I'm hearing your therapist offered was a space of acceptance of that this is actually my reality and I don't need to fight it. I can name that I'm a human going through motherhood and occasionally finding myself in spaces of rage or anger or sadness or... joy, combination of it all really. And ⁓ part of me that is quite curious around this is how did you think you were going to be stepping into motherhood? ⁓ was that part of what maybe ⁓ ⁓ overwhelming feeling of ⁓ and rage that occasionally arose ⁓ unbearable?
Claire: Yeah, you know what? Looking back, I didn't think too much about what I was going to be like as a mum. I'd thought about what the nursery was going to contain, what the nursery was going to look like. I thought about all the stuff that we were getting and the fact we were getting this baby. And I had, I'd had previous miscarriages and I had some fertility treatment and I was just like, well, got this baby now. Like we're going to have this baby and everything's going to be great. Beyond that. ⁓
Kendra Blake: I'm
Claire: I don't think I really get, there'd been so much going on in the background. I don't think I really gave it that much thought. And as well, because my husband and I were both teachers at the time, it was kind of like, well, we've got this, like we're with children all the time. But also looking back, like I was so career focused, like, you know, I was going to be the head teacher. I was going to be the like, you know, change things in schools, like.
Kendra Blake: ⁓
Claire: all of that, like, and I, and I just thought, yes, I'm going to take my turn to leave. And then I'm going to go back to normal. I'm going to, have this child at home and have my daughter, but I'm also going to be having my career and doing all of this. And it's just not possible. I think I was really entrenched in that, that myth that we can
Kendra Blake: Bye!
Claire: have it all and do it all and I hadn't realised how little support flexibility and everything else that isn't there that I actually needed in order to do that. ⁓ Yeah, so think it's partly like not
Kendra Blake: Mm. Yeah.
Claire: not really considering the day-to-day life, but also that assumption that I can just do it because I work with children and because it's just what you do, isn't it? You become a mum and you just know what to do. It's that mothering instinct. And actually on that, like I remember when I first had her in hospital ⁓ I feel that first rush of love. that everybody talks about so much like, or the first time you hold the baby it is amazing and I didn't feel that ⁓ she'd been induced and it had been a long labour, almost ended in a C-section but didn't and I think I just felt so shell-shocked and I think that was when it started that kind of that point at which I was like, maybe ⁓ I'm not cut to be a mother. Maybe I don't have this mother in instinct. Maybe I'm cold. Maybe I'm, I know, maybe there's something missing in me. I didn't think all of that then, ⁓ but back, I'm like, that was like the point that something was going on.
Kendra Blake: Yeah, there's so many layers actually, Claire, as I'm listening to you. It's not just rage or anger. There's layer upon layer of things that ultimately cultivate this perfect condition for... overwhelm and our nervous system reacting. So maybe with that in mind, could you tell us a little bit about what maternal anger actually is and maybe what's actually happening in our body and nervous system as mothers? Because something I find, and I wonder if you've experienced it too in this work in holding spaces for mothers, is that the moment we almost demystify what's going on for us, we provide context and theory to our experience. found for myself personally, and also for the women I work with, it almost... validates the experience and then de-shames it in the same process. So I'm hoping that's what we can offer those listening today.
Claire: Yeah, yeah. And I love that because there is so much underneath anger and rage. And I very much talk to my clients about anger and rage being our bodies going into protective mode, our bodies going into fight or flight. Like there's been so much going on that our bodies are overwhelmed and now they are like, I have to protect myself at all costs. So like at the time when, you know, a few weeks in when my baby was crying, and I felt that first visceral rage, it was like, well, I've got to get her off me because my brain thinks I'm being attacked by a bear. this is such a, it felt like such an attack me that that anger rage is there to protect you. ⁓ I think that's ⁓ Like with motherhood, there is so much overwhelm. So like overwhelm in the moment, but also the stuff that we bring with us into motherhood. that our system just copes as best it can. thinking about my experience, I coping using the coping mechanisms I've used throughout life. ⁓ I you know, containing, pushing through, trying to be good at it, using all the tracking things in the tracking apps, but which side breastfed from ⁓ and when last went to the toilet and like, ⁓ you know, of those things and trying to do it the best that I could because that's the patterns that I had grown up with. it wasn't possible to maintain that any longer. And so anger was coming out because it was like, this isn't working anymore. I need to do something about it. And I very much talk about anger being like a, there's much stigma behind it because we are meant to be these calm, nurturing mothers. We're raised as girls, women, moms. to be that reliable one, one that people turn to, to care for others at all times. so anger goes directly against that. And so we see it as this bad emotion, whereas actually it's almost like a little best friend, a little part of you that is your own best friend. ⁓ Which sounds really weird, like if you're experiencing anger and rage right now, it won't feel like that. It'll feel like this thing that you want to contain and you want to stop and this awful thing. And I totally get that. But it's saying to you something is too much. It's saying you can't go on like this. It's saying you need to change something for us to be able to feel okay, to feel a sense of contentment, to readjust things and feel like ourselves. It's like when you are, I don't know, you're when you're young and you're going out this boy that isn't so good for you or something and you've got your best friend that's going, I don't think you should do this. Do you think, you know, are you OK? Like maybe that wasn't a great, a great decision. It's like that kind of voice coming in. But because it got to such a state of overwhelm and everything, you are at capacity with absolutely everything. It has to shout really loud to be heard. And I think the more we
Kendra Blake: Thank
Claire: the more we try and fight that, the louder it shouts and the more visceral it feels. Yeah, so it's very much for me, your nervous system and your body well, body completely overwhelmed and at capacity saying has to change here for us to live.
Kendra Blake: Mm-hmm. I loved the slip of words, they body-welm. It really works. really works. And I it's interesting because I think you're bringing in something here quite systemic about the experience of motherhood, which is, ⁓ so we these as individuals in our own experience of motherhood, but it's layered with these, ⁓
Claire: Yes, body now. Absolutely.
Kendra Blake: these standards that are unrelenting and exceptionally high for us as women, modern mothers, and that's that kind of perfect mother myth. But I'm also hearing something else, Claire, as you're speaking, which is this idea of stepping into motherhood as quite a high achieving, driven individual, and that almost being part of the catalyst alongside these unrelenting standards that we can never achieve because, well, life. babies ⁓ being this ultimate mixing pot ⁓ that to all
Claire: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kendra Blake: of Does feel fair to say?
Claire: Yeah, absolutely. And like I mentioned, the miscarriages that I'd had early on and the fertility journey I went through and me being in that, wanting to be that high achiever and having that drive and wanting to do everything right and achieve, achieve, achieve, meant that I was containing, even before I had a baby, I was containing so much emotion. I had a miscarriage and I went back to work.
Kendra Blake: you
Claire: I didn't tell anybody, I just got on with it. ⁓ didn't allow myself to feel the feelings ⁓ all of those ⁓ everything, all ⁓ up. then when I had a baby and I wasn't able to keep achieving and all of that and use my coping mechanisms, it had else to go. ⁓ And it out as anger. And I think many, so many of the mums that I work with are those ⁓ high achieving standards. have those high achieving standards. And it's kind of patterns that we learn often so much tied to self-worth that is ⁓ I do if I just keep going, if I just achieve, then I'm going to be accepted. I'm going to get to this end goal ⁓ that feels all the time out of reach and ⁓ we keep and keep going until
Kendra Blake: Mm.
Claire: we can't anymore because like you said, like motherhood, there isn't the space in motherhood. We don't have the care systems in place for mums be able to have the passions that we had before childhood and maintain those and lean into that as well as caring for our baby in the way that we are told we should do and we have to, and we have to be attentive and we have to be there all the time, but also have a career and do all of this. massive.
Kendra Blake: Mm, yeah. That, what you've just named there about not being able to see the whole woman within motherhood is such a significant part of that because we are under-resourced in terms of both systemic support, but equally just, I suppose, the stigma that is around being a mum that... You should be, as you say, that self-sacrificing, people-pleasing, all-giving mother who's not there to put herself ahead of her child. And the irony is, I mean, you've named it in the reflection around how you took the coping strategies you'd taken on from being the good girl into motherhood. We then just need to do it all ourselves a little bit more. We need to cope a little bit better and...
Claire: you
Kendra Blake: hold things a little bit more and be more organized and we start to self-punish in a way for the experience of just being human. And I think ultimately what that perpetuates is a sense of further self abandonment. by doing that, eventually are going to explode. And I there's something so powerful in being able to see what you've just named there Claire, which is there are layers upon layers of historical impacts that lead us to who we are currently as mothers. ⁓ And then stuff external to us that influence how we perform or show up in motherhood. And all of is it's not our fault ultimately in the way that we then end up being as mums. That being said, I also feel strongly that we do have a level of self-responsibility that comes into recognising these patterns. So how would you support somebody who feels really under supported by society, who can hear themselves and what you're bringing here Claire, and goes, well, how do I work with maternal overwhelm, rage, anxiety, because I just need to cope better surely.
Claire: And you know, that's why I hear all the time and it's absolutely what I went with when I first went to therapy. Like I just need to be able to cope. Give me coping strategies. Like how can I be better? How can I push it all down and just carry on? It's you know, it's what we're taught to do, isn't it? That just keeping going. And as part of that, just coping and keeping going, I think we lose connection with our bodies. ⁓
Kendra Blake: Ready? Yeah. you
Claire: and what our bodies are trying to tell us and the gut instincts we have and you know the potential for that that mother's instinct to to come through. And so a lot of the work that I do is centered around learning to listen to the body again and developing self-compassion. Like with the stigma of anger and rage there is so much shame that comes with that.
Kendra Blake: Mm-hmm.
Claire: that keeps us quiet and shame loves silence. If it can keep us quiet about something so we don't share it, shame becomes stronger. And so having that opportunity to say those, ⁓ deepest, darkest things that we're thinking and feeling lessen that grip that shame has on us and that ultimately. ⁓
Kendra Blake: next.
Claire: soften our anger over time because we're not containing all of this by ourselves. in doing that we have to overcome those parts of us ⁓ want to contain it and cope and keep everything in which is where I work with ⁓ body in just noticing for example ⁓ sensations ⁓ we're experiencing. So let's say I'm working with a client and we're talking about something very rationally ⁓ I just noticed the shift they have in their chair or just a prick of tears in their eyes or a ⁓ or something changes and just pausing with them and saying, what are you noticing with sensations in your body right now? ⁓ And might often say like a really common one is I'm feeling this lump in my throat. And it's like that, that strong protective coping mechanism. has realised we've touched on something that hurts, that is uncomfortable, a bit of that emotion that we've contained, that we've contained for so long and that feels like a lump in their throat because they're trying to contain it and just taking a moment for example to sit with that and just putting our attention there without trying to change it, without saying we're going to open the floodgates and it's going to be really scary. but just noticing it and talking to that part of us that is protecting that as well. Like I see you, like I understand why you are protecting me. This feels really scary right now. therapy with me is very much about dipping in and out of things like that ⁓ when we've contained those emotions ⁓ so long, it can feel so scary and overwhelming. Like we're gonna open the floodgates and we're not gonna be able to put it all back in. So being able to use like the body as grounding technique, with grounding techniques to enable us to come away from the emotions realize are current. Sorry, I just knocked the ⁓ whole be able to come back to our surroundings and notice where we are and check in and feel our feet on the floor and take a moment just to realise the chair is supporting us and we're here in this space together. We're not in then with all of the emotions that are contained around what's happened maybe in the past. are here now and we can come away from that ⁓ we need to, when it feels too much. So very much like I work out the pace of the client. Like it totally depends where somebody is and they've experienced and where they are with their feelings ⁓ how it feels sharing things. ⁓ some clients might come and they're like, I to get this off my chest and I need to tell you all of this stuff. And that's really helpful in kind of lightening the load and the weight on the shoulders that they've had. ⁓ And others might come and go, I know I need to do this. but it feels really scary. There's so many layers there and I feel like the listening to the body side of it really allows us a safe way to explore that.
Kendra Blake: Mm-hmm. something so beautiful about that Claire and ⁓ love parts work. I love being able to dip into a part and then ⁓ out of it and recognising there's an angry part but there's also a present part for example and ⁓ we allow ourselves to be able oscillate, pendulate ⁓ between It gives us a sense of being able to regulate ourselves ⁓ but meet ourselves where we're at ⁓ and I That piece is really powerful because named it earlier in the session, really, through expression of what was being so tightly contained and wound. Things soften, but needs to be done in a way that is ⁓ for nervous system because the only way safety has been through containment previously. So it's all a new learning process. How do you hold yourself as a therapist around all of this, Claire? I mean, you're a mum too, so I can anticipate that, I'm assuming maybe rather, ⁓ of the stuff that is brought into your session spaces with mums is also your own lived experience and ⁓ do you hold yourself within all of that too?
Claire: Thank you, You know, gone into this work intentionally in setting up my private practice ⁓ and space I create for myself exactly because of that, ⁓ because I've ⁓ the of experience of trying to keep going, like, and I didn't want that for myself. I want to be able to provide ⁓ a good level of capacity for my clients and holding them as well as giving me the space to hold the emotions of my children and my partner and myself. Like, oh my God, like it's a lot having children and being a therapist and holding everything that people come with. And so for me, it's about making sure I first and foremost have the support around me that I need. Like I dip in and out of therapy myself, for example.
Kendra Blake: Thank
Claire: And sometimes it will be because new things come up for me, like as my children grow older, ⁓ are different triggers that come up and it ignites different parts of me and I'm like, I really need to go and have a look at that and see what's going on. But also it can be about supporting somebody like you say, who has very similar patterns to you or similar experiences and it just reignites that. that old part of me or something that I just need to be aware of so that I can give them the space that they need and stay with them rather than going into my own stuff and therefore not giving them the depth of the work that will benefit them. So for me, it's absolutely about going into therapy in and out whenever I feel the need. I've also been really intentional with choosing my supervisor.
Kendra Blake: in our midst.
Claire: I've chosen a supervisor who has children a similar age me. It's very about the human experience and the fact that ultimately therapists are human. Like we're not these super humans that don't feel and have emotions. There's space for it all in those supervision sessions. And I can take to her whatever comes up personally for me. It's not just about business or client work. It's essentially about me and allowing me to hold. the mums that come to me. But it's also been about how I set my day up. So I see no more than three clients ⁓ day because I want, I don't want to do, I never want to do back to back therapy. Like I know ⁓ I not have capacity for that at this stage of my life. And so I always have space in between clients. I never see a client before 10 o'clock in a morning. maybe the odd occasion when people shift about a little bit because I know sometimes school drop-off for example can be a lot and you know my kids at the minute are very happy going to school but there been times when they haven't and I've come back and I've needed some space for myself dance around the kitchen like a crazy person to it off to like just recenter myself before I can go into a session and hold space for somebody else. ⁓
Kendra Blake: and
Claire: I think ultimately it just comes down to caring for myself. I think that's the same for mums in general, as well as therapists holding mums. ⁓ we can care for ourselves in the way that we need with compassion, as well as the actually creating space in life, then we have more capacity for the things that up.
Kendra Blake: You know what, as you're saying that, that is actually the piece that really drew me to wanting to have you on the podcast because I think part of what I loved seeing, having stalked your Instagram profile Claire, is that real part of you that, the word that I'm looking for? I suppose really self-prioritized and really attuned to yourself. I remember seeing a-
Claire: All of that.
Kendra Blake: a story where you had named that actually you had cancelled clients because you needed to attend to something at home and that there wasn't a part of you that was going to apologise for it because you're human and it's been able to navigate those boundary settings for yourself. So maybe I want to speak to that because something that I know all too well being in this field myself is that will often cancel. because life arises and equally you too as a woman in this space will need to navigate your own own life experiences. do you safeguard your work within all of that ⁓ the sense that life ⁓ How you make this a sustainable business?
Claire: ⁓ always in the back of my mind. And it is difficult. Like if I think back to just January, life was life. My daughter was really struggling at school and we did a whole change of primary schools for her. And there were times when I was like, I don't have capacity right now. So I need to do something about that. like client work, but also moving people around. Like we are all moms and working with moms. Everybody gets it. I get it. when a client comes to me and go, my child's sick and I'm not at nursery and like, great, can we find another time? Which I can do because I only see three clients a day. So if occasionally someone needs to move and I happen to have four on that day and two on that day, then I've still got the space that I need for that. So there's always the potential to move people around like that. But also like I have a day where I don't see any clients within that as well. And that is my kind of future thinking day. So it's, for example, at the moment I'm working on a program for a small group of moms who can come together and work on anger, who might not be able to do one-to-one therapy, find the time or the money or whatever else that might come up. ⁓ it means I can support ⁓ people in less ⁓ So thinking about aspects like that that I can bring in as well to future proof things for me and also provide the support that I want, that I want to give the kind of support that I would have wanted back then that I might have done. So it comes with all of that and that's not without like, you know, with worries or the odd feeling of guilt or, you know, all of those things that come up, like my typical old patterns are around, I think for many of us, managing other people's emotions and not wanting to upset people and keeping the peace. so ⁓ been a real steep learning curve for me being in private practice of holding those boundaries ⁓ not apologizing for them. ⁓ And reframing how I see it as well as like this is by me holding my boundaries, I'm giving the mums I work with permission to hold their boundaries as well. Almost like, almost doing the work that I do makes me embody everything so much more that I am helping my clients with. It's like every day, every session is another reminder that I need to care for myself. that there's a reason for boundaries and there's a reason for my day set up with that whenever those thoughts of I need to do more I should be I don't know doing more speaking events or whatever else comes along. It's that constant reminder to do as you say, what do you say it? ⁓
Kendra Blake: . That's how. Yeah. I love that Claire, and that's why love bringing in a little bit of an insight into the professional behind this work because I find so often come into the space preaching what it is that we've needed but the greatest piece is the embodiment of what it is to allow. I suppose the modeline, as you said, for other women to be able to go, ⁓ okay, I can do that too. And I think that's where ultimately that's where the systemic change happens. And that's where motherhood support is then suddenly valued and mothers too are valued in the way that they hold space and do the care work. So thank you for that insight. That was so, so useful. So with that in mind, knowing that you are fully in this work, you share a little bit about what it is that you offer in terms of support for the mums out there as we start to wrap up our chat together?
Claire: Yeah, so primarily I offer one to one support for mums. And that is very much a therapy on a weekly or a fortnightly basis that is for as long on a short as they need it. Like I'm very much about mums being in control of what they need and knowing what they need and what feels right for them. I also have a couple of things that I hold on my website that are just free access for people to use that's about understanding the body and the nervous system, how anger presents. So for example, I have a ⁓ quiz available where you can just like, it's got eight or nine questions where you are saying typically how the anger shows up and what you're experiencing. And it'll just give you a little bit of insight into what might be going on. for you, also ⁓ masterclass that I've run a few times, but it's still on my website to access that is talking about the body and that protective anger ⁓ ⁓ strategies as well that we can take away to use in the moment, as well as creating longer term capacity there as well. I'm currently working on a program, like I said, for a small group of mums. I'm going to be talking about that soon. on Instagram, which is where I spend most of my time on Instagram. But that's also an important platform for me because it's about breaking that stigma. Like it's not just for me, what I do isn't just about the one-to-one therapy and the mums that I work with on that basis, but it's about putting the word out there. that this is really common so that whether mums seek support with me or with someone else, doesn't matter. It makes them get past that bit of shame enough to be able to reach out and talk to somebody.
Kendra Blake: Mm-hmm, yeah, I love that, Claire, because it is all about this into greater awareness for mums and for others, ultimately, so support can be ⁓ readily accessible for those that need it. So thank you so much for the work that you do and for giving of your time today to do this episode. I really appreciate it. It's been really wonderful chatting to you. ⁓ thank you, thank you so much.
Claire: Yeah. ⁓ It's been lovely Kendra, thanks so much for having me. ⁓
Claire: Hi Kendra, it's really good to be here and I've been really excited about this conversation because I love the information that you put out and how you talk about care for mothers. So yeah, I'm excited to be here.
Kendra Blake: Well, I want to know a little bit about you then. So everything that I ask in this, I ask with the idea that we're going to have mums listening in as well as professionals. So Claire, could you tell us a little bit about the work that you focus on? It's something that still carries quite a lot of stigma, maternal anger and rage. Can you share a little bit about your own experience of early motherhood and possibly what led you to specialize in this work in this field? Claire's approach is compassionate and deeply validating. She supports mothers in making sense of their reactions, understanding the roots of their overwhelm, and developing healthier ways to respond, both to themselves and their children. am so excited to dive into today's conversation and can't wait for you to hear it.
Claire: Yeah, so yeah, my own experience is absolutely why I focus on anger and rage and motherhood. It's something I battled with for a long time before reaching out for help. And, you know, it started when my eldest was just a few weeks old. it was such like a visceral feeling that I got like having this, I remember like when it first, I remember that very first time she was crying and crying, feeding wasn't going well. Like it just felt like I was failing at everything. And my husband was out at the time. I had been like, yeah, yeah, go out, like go make mom and dad friends and come back and make sure we've got this group. Like I was just so desperate to try and create a group of friends with a baby. So I sent him out to, to see the NCT group and I was just, it just came over me at a hundred miles an hour and I was, it scared me so much because I wanted to just throw her off me. And I remember putting her down in the crib ⁓ ⁓ my husband and saying, you need, you need to come home. You need to come home now. Like ⁓ cannot, I cannot be alone. ⁓ it's still, you know, I can still feel that. emotion when I talk about it because it was such a like afterwards not mentioning anything to my husband like I was very much like I'm upset like I can't do this but I didn't say anything about that feeling and that experience of like literally like I have to put her down now otherwise I'm gonna throw her and just yeah I still feel that sadness for that me that didn't know it was you know, such a common experience have that anger and rage come over you from absolutely nowhere. ⁓ I kept that so quiet. It wasn't until she was about 18 months old that finally everything, I'd returned to work. ⁓ was a teacher then and I'd gone back to work. I was head of department. ⁓ Like I had things coming at me and I was like, you know, so career minded then as well. I was like, I need to achieve, I need to get back in it. I need to prove myself because I've been on maternity leave. And I just absolutely crumbled. But it had been such a journey to get into that crumbling point battling and trying to contain rage at any thing like when. she wouldn't allow me to get her dress for example, you know how they are at like one year old and they just want to crawl about and do everything else apart from what you want to do or you know being upset about getting in a car seat like and it would it was just always there like right under the surface and so yeah that stigma is one of the reasons that I focus on this ⁓ we so alone with it and it stops us reaching out.
Kendra Blake: think that piece is really powerful. I mean, you're naming something there about it being such a visceral experience. This idea that somatically your body, this just felt so overwhelming. ⁓ And think a little bit about ⁓ how of control we can often feel in motherhood anyway, and how ⁓ this overwhelming arises in your body and it's ⁓ the of, don't know how to contain it. When ⁓ what the moment where you realized that this is not just a you? issue clear, that it's not just you who struggles with rage or struggles with anger and motherhood and then decide it's subsequent to that to start speaking about it.
Claire: You know, I don't think it was until I was with the therapist that I stuck with. And I say with the therapist I stuck with because I tried one therapist before her and it just didn't gel and it took me a little while to then find the right person. And once I'd found her, that was when I realised when we were talking about it and she slowly just gave me that space. to talk about the stuff that was actually going on. Because previously, I'd got to the point where I was driving to work and I was like, what if I just drive my car off the road? would be easier for everyone. And it wasn't with suicidal intention. It was just like, that would be the easiest option right now. That would be better for my daughter. That would be better for my husband because at that point I was waking up at like two or three in the morning. sobbing and he would say like what's wrong what can I do and I would just shout at him I'd be like you don't understand like there's no way you can understand all of this so I when I first reached out I wasn't necessarily going for the anger and rage it was like I got to a point where there was no other option I'd been to the GP and they'd given me antidepressants ⁓ that kind of like did it do? It didn't really get rid of the feelings, it just kind of made me feel flatter with it. And I was like, this isn't me either. This isn't, I'm still lost. And that's why I reached out to a therapist. So even when I first reached out, even when I first started therapy, I didn't go and say in that first session, ⁓ I'm really angry. I'm feeling this rage. Like I'm worried I'm going to hurt my child or I grabbed her too roughly when I was putting her shoes on the other day. Like I didn't say of that. It was only in having that kind of nurturing ⁓ where started to come out and I started to realise that it was okay to say that. And her response was so like, yeah, I've been there. And I was like, just ⁓ being like, what? Like, you've been there and I, you know, because I kind of put her on a pedestal as well. And like, ⁓ know, at that point I was like, therapists are different to other people. And just sat there and she just, she just allowed me to cry after that revelation ⁓ just ⁓ how
Kendra Blake: Bye.
Claire: I had been containing everything. And that's, I think that's the moment when I realized, it took a while. And then slowly as I started talking about it more, and that didn't happen straight away. Like I'm thinking about talking to my mum friends and stuff. I didn't just go, do you feel this rage too? Just slowly as I was going through therapy, I just became a bit more confident that I wasn't on my own. And I'd say something to a friend like, my God, when this happened the other day, I felt so like, and just put it into some body based words of like what it ⁓ like. they were like, my God, me too. Like I've had those moments. And so it kind of built up gradually that idea that I wasn't on my own. Yeah. It really takes me back talking about this. ⁓
Kendra Blake: you Yeah. Yeah, I can really see it, Claire. And I think something that really stands out to me is just how disconcerting those first couple of months are in becoming a mum. So much of our sense of self has changed anyway, to let alone start to recognise and reconcile. With that, and now a huge emotional shift, and especially the version of ourselves that we thought or presumed we'd be as mothers is probably what's really sitting there for me. Because I think in part what I'm hearing your therapist offered was a space of acceptance of that this is actually my reality and I don't need to fight it. I can name that I'm a human going through motherhood and occasionally finding myself in spaces of rage or anger or sadness or... joy, combination of it all really. And ⁓ part of me that is quite curious around this is how did you think you were going to be stepping into motherhood? ⁓ was that part of what maybe ⁓ ⁓ overwhelming feeling of ⁓ and rage that occasionally arose ⁓ unbearable?
Claire: Yeah, you know what? Looking back, I didn't think too much about what I was going to be like as a mum. I'd thought about what the nursery was going to contain, what the nursery was going to look like. I thought about all the stuff that we were getting and the fact we were getting this baby. And I had, I'd had previous miscarriages and I had some fertility treatment and I was just like, well, got this baby now. Like we're going to have this baby and everything's going to be great. Beyond that. ⁓
Kendra Blake: I'm
Claire: I don't think I really get, there'd been so much going on in the background. I don't think I really gave it that much thought. And as well, because my husband and I were both teachers at the time, it was kind of like, well, we've got this, like we're with children all the time. But also looking back, like I was so career focused, like, you know, I was going to be the head teacher. I was going to be the like, you know, change things in schools, like.
Kendra Blake: ⁓
Claire: all of that, like, and I, and I just thought, yes, I'm going to take my turn to leave. And then I'm going to go back to normal. I'm going to, have this child at home and have my daughter, but I'm also going to be having my career and doing all of this. And it's just not possible. I think I was really entrenched in that, that myth that we can
Kendra Blake: Bye!
Claire: have it all and do it all and I hadn't realised how little support flexibility and everything else that isn't there that I actually needed in order to do that. ⁓ Yeah, so think it's partly like not
Kendra Blake: Mm. Yeah.
Claire: not really considering the day-to-day life, but also that assumption that I can just do it because I work with children and because it's just what you do, isn't it? You become a mum and you just know what to do. It's that mothering instinct. And actually on that, like I remember when I first had her in hospital ⁓ I feel that first rush of love. that everybody talks about so much like, or the first time you hold the baby it is amazing and I didn't feel that ⁓ she'd been induced and it had been a long labour, almost ended in a C-section but didn't and I think I just felt so shell-shocked and I think that was when it started that kind of that point at which I was like, maybe ⁓ I'm not cut to be a mother. Maybe I don't have this mother in instinct. Maybe I'm cold. Maybe I'm, I know, maybe there's something missing in me. I didn't think all of that then, ⁓ but back, I'm like, that was like the point that something was going on.
Kendra Blake: Yeah, there's so many layers actually, Claire, as I'm listening to you. It's not just rage or anger. There's layer upon layer of things that ultimately cultivate this perfect condition for... overwhelm and our nervous system reacting. So maybe with that in mind, could you tell us a little bit about what maternal anger actually is and maybe what's actually happening in our body and nervous system as mothers? Because something I find, and I wonder if you've experienced it too in this work in holding spaces for mothers, is that the moment we almost demystify what's going on for us, we provide context and theory to our experience. found for myself personally, and also for the women I work with, it almost... validates the experience and then de-shames it in the same process. So I'm hoping that's what we can offer those listening today.
Claire: Yeah, yeah. And I love that because there is so much underneath anger and rage. And I very much talk to my clients about anger and rage being our bodies going into protective mode, our bodies going into fight or flight. Like there's been so much going on that our bodies are overwhelmed and now they are like, I have to protect myself at all costs. So like at the time when, you know, a few weeks in when my baby was crying, and I felt that first visceral rage, it was like, well, I've got to get her off me because my brain thinks I'm being attacked by a bear. this is such a, it felt like such an attack me that that anger rage is there to protect you. ⁓ I think that's ⁓ Like with motherhood, there is so much overwhelm. So like overwhelm in the moment, but also the stuff that we bring with us into motherhood. that our system just copes as best it can. thinking about my experience, I coping using the coping mechanisms I've used throughout life. ⁓ I you know, containing, pushing through, trying to be good at it, using all the tracking things in the tracking apps, but which side breastfed from ⁓ and when last went to the toilet and like, ⁓ you know, of those things and trying to do it the best that I could because that's the patterns that I had grown up with. it wasn't possible to maintain that any longer. And so anger was coming out because it was like, this isn't working anymore. I need to do something about it. And I very much talk about anger being like a, there's much stigma behind it because we are meant to be these calm, nurturing mothers. We're raised as girls, women, moms. to be that reliable one, one that people turn to, to care for others at all times. so anger goes directly against that. And so we see it as this bad emotion, whereas actually it's almost like a little best friend, a little part of you that is your own best friend. ⁓ Which sounds really weird, like if you're experiencing anger and rage right now, it won't feel like that. It'll feel like this thing that you want to contain and you want to stop and this awful thing. And I totally get that. But it's saying to you something is too much. It's saying you can't go on like this. It's saying you need to change something for us to be able to feel okay, to feel a sense of contentment, to readjust things and feel like ourselves. It's like when you are, I don't know, you're when you're young and you're going out this boy that isn't so good for you or something and you've got your best friend that's going, I don't think you should do this. Do you think, you know, are you OK? Like maybe that wasn't a great, a great decision. It's like that kind of voice coming in. But because it got to such a state of overwhelm and everything, you are at capacity with absolutely everything. It has to shout really loud to be heard. And I think the more we
Kendra Blake: Thank
Claire: the more we try and fight that, the louder it shouts and the more visceral it feels. Yeah, so it's very much for me, your nervous system and your body well, body completely overwhelmed and at capacity saying has to change here for us to live.
Kendra Blake: Mm-hmm. I loved the slip of words, they body-welm. It really works. really works. And I it's interesting because I think you're bringing in something here quite systemic about the experience of motherhood, which is, ⁓ so we these as individuals in our own experience of motherhood, but it's layered with these, ⁓
Claire: Yes, body now. Absolutely.
Kendra Blake: these standards that are unrelenting and exceptionally high for us as women, modern mothers, and that's that kind of perfect mother myth. But I'm also hearing something else, Claire, as you're speaking, which is this idea of stepping into motherhood as quite a high achieving, driven individual, and that almost being part of the catalyst alongside these unrelenting standards that we can never achieve because, well, life. babies ⁓ being this ultimate mixing pot ⁓ that to all
Claire: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kendra Blake: of Does feel fair to say?
Claire: Yeah, absolutely. And like I mentioned, the miscarriages that I'd had early on and the fertility journey I went through and me being in that, wanting to be that high achiever and having that drive and wanting to do everything right and achieve, achieve, achieve, meant that I was containing, even before I had a baby, I was containing so much emotion. I had a miscarriage and I went back to work.
Kendra Blake: you
Claire: I didn't tell anybody, I just got on with it. ⁓ didn't allow myself to feel the feelings ⁓ all of those ⁓ everything, all ⁓ up. then when I had a baby and I wasn't able to keep achieving and all of that and use my coping mechanisms, it had else to go. ⁓ And it out as anger. And I think many, so many of the mums that I work with are those ⁓ high achieving standards. have those high achieving standards. And it's kind of patterns that we learn often so much tied to self-worth that is ⁓ I do if I just keep going, if I just achieve, then I'm going to be accepted. I'm going to get to this end goal ⁓ that feels all the time out of reach and ⁓ we keep and keep going until
Kendra Blake: Mm.
Claire: we can't anymore because like you said, like motherhood, there isn't the space in motherhood. We don't have the care systems in place for mums be able to have the passions that we had before childhood and maintain those and lean into that as well as caring for our baby in the way that we are told we should do and we have to, and we have to be attentive and we have to be there all the time, but also have a career and do all of this. massive.
Kendra Blake: Mm, yeah. That, what you've just named there about not being able to see the whole woman within motherhood is such a significant part of that because we are under-resourced in terms of both systemic support, but equally just, I suppose, the stigma that is around being a mum that... You should be, as you say, that self-sacrificing, people-pleasing, all-giving mother who's not there to put herself ahead of her child. And the irony is, I mean, you've named it in the reflection around how you took the coping strategies you'd taken on from being the good girl into motherhood. We then just need to do it all ourselves a little bit more. We need to cope a little bit better and...
Claire: you
Kendra Blake: hold things a little bit more and be more organized and we start to self-punish in a way for the experience of just being human. And I think ultimately what that perpetuates is a sense of further self abandonment. by doing that, eventually are going to explode. And I there's something so powerful in being able to see what you've just named there Claire, which is there are layers upon layers of historical impacts that lead us to who we are currently as mothers. ⁓ And then stuff external to us that influence how we perform or show up in motherhood. And all of is it's not our fault ultimately in the way that we then end up being as mums. That being said, I also feel strongly that we do have a level of self-responsibility that comes into recognising these patterns. So how would you support somebody who feels really under supported by society, who can hear themselves and what you're bringing here Claire, and goes, well, how do I work with maternal overwhelm, rage, anxiety, because I just need to cope better surely.
Claire: And you know, that's why I hear all the time and it's absolutely what I went with when I first went to therapy. Like I just need to be able to cope. Give me coping strategies. Like how can I be better? How can I push it all down and just carry on? It's you know, it's what we're taught to do, isn't it? That just keeping going. And as part of that, just coping and keeping going, I think we lose connection with our bodies. ⁓
Kendra Blake: Ready? Yeah. you
Claire: and what our bodies are trying to tell us and the gut instincts we have and you know the potential for that that mother's instinct to to come through. And so a lot of the work that I do is centered around learning to listen to the body again and developing self-compassion. Like with the stigma of anger and rage there is so much shame that comes with that.
Kendra Blake: Mm-hmm.
Claire: that keeps us quiet and shame loves silence. If it can keep us quiet about something so we don't share it, shame becomes stronger. And so having that opportunity to say those, ⁓ deepest, darkest things that we're thinking and feeling lessen that grip that shame has on us and that ultimately. ⁓
Kendra Blake: next.
Claire: soften our anger over time because we're not containing all of this by ourselves. in doing that we have to overcome those parts of us ⁓ want to contain it and cope and keep everything in which is where I work with ⁓ body in just noticing for example ⁓ sensations ⁓ we're experiencing. So let's say I'm working with a client and we're talking about something very rationally ⁓ I just noticed the shift they have in their chair or just a prick of tears in their eyes or a ⁓ or something changes and just pausing with them and saying, what are you noticing with sensations in your body right now? ⁓ And might often say like a really common one is I'm feeling this lump in my throat. And it's like that, that strong protective coping mechanism. has realised we've touched on something that hurts, that is uncomfortable, a bit of that emotion that we've contained, that we've contained for so long and that feels like a lump in their throat because they're trying to contain it and just taking a moment for example to sit with that and just putting our attention there without trying to change it, without saying we're going to open the floodgates and it's going to be really scary. but just noticing it and talking to that part of us that is protecting that as well. Like I see you, like I understand why you are protecting me. This feels really scary right now. therapy with me is very much about dipping in and out of things like that ⁓ when we've contained those emotions ⁓ so long, it can feel so scary and overwhelming. Like we're gonna open the floodgates and we're not gonna be able to put it all back in. So being able to use like the body as grounding technique, with grounding techniques to enable us to come away from the emotions realize are current. Sorry, I just knocked the ⁓ whole be able to come back to our surroundings and notice where we are and check in and feel our feet on the floor and take a moment just to realise the chair is supporting us and we're here in this space together. We're not in then with all of the emotions that are contained around what's happened maybe in the past. are here now and we can come away from that ⁓ we need to, when it feels too much. So very much like I work out the pace of the client. Like it totally depends where somebody is and they've experienced and where they are with their feelings ⁓ how it feels sharing things. ⁓ some clients might come and they're like, I to get this off my chest and I need to tell you all of this stuff. And that's really helpful in kind of lightening the load and the weight on the shoulders that they've had. ⁓ And others might come and go, I know I need to do this. but it feels really scary. There's so many layers there and I feel like the listening to the body side of it really allows us a safe way to explore that.
Kendra Blake: Mm-hmm. something so beautiful about that Claire and ⁓ love parts work. I love being able to dip into a part and then ⁓ out of it and recognising there's an angry part but there's also a present part for example and ⁓ we allow ourselves to be able oscillate, pendulate ⁓ between It gives us a sense of being able to regulate ourselves ⁓ but meet ourselves where we're at ⁓ and I That piece is really powerful because named it earlier in the session, really, through expression of what was being so tightly contained and wound. Things soften, but needs to be done in a way that is ⁓ for nervous system because the only way safety has been through containment previously. So it's all a new learning process. How do you hold yourself as a therapist around all of this, Claire? I mean, you're a mum too, so I can anticipate that, I'm assuming maybe rather, ⁓ of the stuff that is brought into your session spaces with mums is also your own lived experience and ⁓ do you hold yourself within all of that too?
Claire: Thank you, You know, gone into this work intentionally in setting up my private practice ⁓ and space I create for myself exactly because of that, ⁓ because I've ⁓ the of experience of trying to keep going, like, and I didn't want that for myself. I want to be able to provide ⁓ a good level of capacity for my clients and holding them as well as giving me the space to hold the emotions of my children and my partner and myself. Like, oh my God, like it's a lot having children and being a therapist and holding everything that people come with. And so for me, it's about making sure I first and foremost have the support around me that I need. Like I dip in and out of therapy myself, for example.
Kendra Blake: Thank
Claire: And sometimes it will be because new things come up for me, like as my children grow older, ⁓ are different triggers that come up and it ignites different parts of me and I'm like, I really need to go and have a look at that and see what's going on. But also it can be about supporting somebody like you say, who has very similar patterns to you or similar experiences and it just reignites that. that old part of me or something that I just need to be aware of so that I can give them the space that they need and stay with them rather than going into my own stuff and therefore not giving them the depth of the work that will benefit them. So for me, it's absolutely about going into therapy in and out whenever I feel the need. I've also been really intentional with choosing my supervisor.
Kendra Blake: in our midst.
Claire: I've chosen a supervisor who has children a similar age me. It's very about the human experience and the fact that ultimately therapists are human. Like we're not these super humans that don't feel and have emotions. There's space for it all in those supervision sessions. And I can take to her whatever comes up personally for me. It's not just about business or client work. It's essentially about me and allowing me to hold. the mums that come to me. But it's also been about how I set my day up. So I see no more than three clients ⁓ day because I want, I don't want to do, I never want to do back to back therapy. Like I know ⁓ I not have capacity for that at this stage of my life. And so I always have space in between clients. I never see a client before 10 o'clock in a morning. maybe the odd occasion when people shift about a little bit because I know sometimes school drop-off for example can be a lot and you know my kids at the minute are very happy going to school but there been times when they haven't and I've come back and I've needed some space for myself dance around the kitchen like a crazy person to it off to like just recenter myself before I can go into a session and hold space for somebody else. ⁓
Kendra Blake: and
Claire: I think ultimately it just comes down to caring for myself. I think that's the same for mums in general, as well as therapists holding mums. ⁓ we can care for ourselves in the way that we need with compassion, as well as the actually creating space in life, then we have more capacity for the things that up.
Kendra Blake: You know what, as you're saying that, that is actually the piece that really drew me to wanting to have you on the podcast because I think part of what I loved seeing, having stalked your Instagram profile Claire, is that real part of you that, the word that I'm looking for? I suppose really self-prioritized and really attuned to yourself. I remember seeing a-
Claire: All of that.
Kendra Blake: a story where you had named that actually you had cancelled clients because you needed to attend to something at home and that there wasn't a part of you that was going to apologise for it because you're human and it's been able to navigate those boundary settings for yourself. So maybe I want to speak to that because something that I know all too well being in this field myself is that will often cancel. because life arises and equally you too as a woman in this space will need to navigate your own own life experiences. do you safeguard your work within all of that ⁓ the sense that life ⁓ How you make this a sustainable business?
Claire: ⁓ always in the back of my mind. And it is difficult. Like if I think back to just January, life was life. My daughter was really struggling at school and we did a whole change of primary schools for her. And there were times when I was like, I don't have capacity right now. So I need to do something about that. like client work, but also moving people around. Like we are all moms and working with moms. Everybody gets it. I get it. when a client comes to me and go, my child's sick and I'm not at nursery and like, great, can we find another time? Which I can do because I only see three clients a day. So if occasionally someone needs to move and I happen to have four on that day and two on that day, then I've still got the space that I need for that. So there's always the potential to move people around like that. But also like I have a day where I don't see any clients within that as well. And that is my kind of future thinking day. So it's, for example, at the moment I'm working on a program for a small group of moms who can come together and work on anger, who might not be able to do one-to-one therapy, find the time or the money or whatever else that might come up. ⁓ it means I can support ⁓ people in less ⁓ So thinking about aspects like that that I can bring in as well to future proof things for me and also provide the support that I want, that I want to give the kind of support that I would have wanted back then that I might have done. So it comes with all of that and that's not without like, you know, with worries or the odd feeling of guilt or, you know, all of those things that come up, like my typical old patterns are around, I think for many of us, managing other people's emotions and not wanting to upset people and keeping the peace. so ⁓ been a real steep learning curve for me being in private practice of holding those boundaries ⁓ not apologizing for them. ⁓ And reframing how I see it as well as like this is by me holding my boundaries, I'm giving the mums I work with permission to hold their boundaries as well. Almost like, almost doing the work that I do makes me embody everything so much more that I am helping my clients with. It's like every day, every session is another reminder that I need to care for myself. that there's a reason for boundaries and there's a reason for my day set up with that whenever those thoughts of I need to do more I should be I don't know doing more speaking events or whatever else comes along. It's that constant reminder to do as you say, what do you say it? ⁓
Kendra Blake: . That's how. Yeah. I love that Claire, and that's why love bringing in a little bit of an insight into the professional behind this work because I find so often come into the space preaching what it is that we've needed but the greatest piece is the embodiment of what it is to allow. I suppose the modeline, as you said, for other women to be able to go, ⁓ okay, I can do that too. And I think that's where ultimately that's where the systemic change happens. And that's where motherhood support is then suddenly valued and mothers too are valued in the way that they hold space and do the care work. So thank you for that insight. That was so, so useful. So with that in mind, knowing that you are fully in this work, you share a little bit about what it is that you offer in terms of support for the mums out there as we start to wrap up our chat together?
Claire: Yeah, so primarily I offer one to one support for mums. And that is very much a therapy on a weekly or a fortnightly basis that is for as long on a short as they need it. Like I'm very much about mums being in control of what they need and knowing what they need and what feels right for them. I also have a couple of things that I hold on my website that are just free access for people to use that's about understanding the body and the nervous system, how anger presents. So for example, I have a ⁓ quiz available where you can just like, it's got eight or nine questions where you are saying typically how the anger shows up and what you're experiencing. And it'll just give you a little bit of insight into what might be going on. for you, also ⁓ masterclass that I've run a few times, but it's still on my website to access that is talking about the body and that protective anger ⁓ ⁓ strategies as well that we can take away to use in the moment, as well as creating longer term capacity there as well. I'm currently working on a program, like I said, for a small group of mums. I'm going to be talking about that soon. on Instagram, which is where I spend most of my time on Instagram. But that's also an important platform for me because it's about breaking that stigma. Like it's not just for me, what I do isn't just about the one-to-one therapy and the mums that I work with on that basis, but it's about putting the word out there. that this is really common so that whether mums seek support with me or with someone else, doesn't matter. It makes them get past that bit of shame enough to be able to reach out and talk to somebody.
Kendra Blake: Mm-hmm, yeah, I love that, Claire, because it is all about this into greater awareness for mums and for others, ultimately, so support can be ⁓ readily accessible for those that need it. So thank you so much for the work that you do and for giving of your time today to do this episode. I really appreciate it. It's been really wonderful chatting to you. ⁓ thank you, thank you so much.
Claire: Yeah. ⁓ It's been lovely Kendra, thanks so much for having me. ⁓
