speaker-0: So welcome back everyone to another episode of Making the Time Podcast, where we are focusing on a self-care guide today, our wiser elder self. My guest today is Annie Gelfand. Annie is a master certified coach, credentialed by the International Coach Federation and ICF Master Certified Coach, Assessor, and an Advanced Certified Mentor Coach. And she was awarded the ICF PCC and MCC Mentor Coach Specialization Designations. She is the creator of the Essence of Mastery program. She now specializes in mentoring experienced coaches on the path of coaching mastery. Annie is certain that Coaching Mastery has the secret sauce it takes to help us be better human beings. Which is actually her true motivation for all she does. Annie started off by coaching individuals, and I was one of them, teams and relationships to make radical change in nineteen ninety-seven. With over four decades under her belt as an entrepreneur, she founded the Wisdom Foundation, a humanitarian, philanthropic, community-based not for profit service. She holds a master's Business administration degree. She's a certified professional coactive coach and has trained in organizational and relationship systems coaching and team coaching. She was personally mentored by Dr. Peter Gerlach in Inner Family Systems. She has multiple certifications and holistic modalities, lived seven years in India. began practicing yoga at the age of nine and started daily practice of meditation at the age of sixteen. Wow, hi Annie!
speaker-1: That's a lot of words. That's a lot.
speaker-0: That's a you've done a lot in those 40 years.
speaker-1: Well today I'm sixty eight, so hopefully I mean as of today. Not today is my birthday.
speaker-0: Okay. Wow. Yes. All right. You're almost at the seventy club. You can join us.
speaker-1: Getting there, getting there.
speaker-0: Good. So welcome to the podcast. And I always like to start off asking guests how you define self-care in general for you.
speaker-1: That is such a good question. And I remember well our time working together, Pam. And self-care was such a big aspect of it. And you know, it's been a big aspect of my life pretty much since the mid 1980s when I recognized that I was living fully out of alignment with my inner wisdom. And the way I knew that was because I was not happy. And I think happiness. Is a pretty good gauge of where you're at in your life. If you're not happy, then something's out of sync. And so my awareness began with, okay, well, what do I need to do to bring myself back into alignment? Because I'm out, completely out. And the beginning of self-care was that recognition. Number one, are you living in alignment with who you want to be, with who you, what your values are? Are you, you know, we we have this, especially coaches, I find, we're so well-intentioned and we so want to help other people that sometimes we forget ourselves. And the the bottom line and truth of it is, is that if you don't look after yourself, you're not good to anybody else. So taking care of yourself is actually a first priority, even though it's completely counter what we've been trained. To do. So it it feels selfish. It feels, how could I put myself first? But it's that sort of analogy of being on the plane next to you know a child, let's say, and you you want your inclinations. I've got to look after the child. But if you don't put on your own oxygen mask first, that kid's not going to be any good to anyone because they won't know how to do it. So did I kind of answer your question? absolutely.
speaker-0: Absolutely. I've used that the oxygen mask many times because that's how I see self-care too. We have to take care of ourselves. And our training has often been, no, everyone else comes first. So absolutely just I I agree. So with with the self-care cards, I came up with 11 areas of self-care and And in processing the cards and learning how to put together a deck, I knew I had to have 14 of them because I wanted a 56 card deck. And I thought, what are the other three? And I thought immediately of my wiser elder self. And the other one was my inner child, which we often talked about in coaching. And then the last one was celebrate. And so this wise elder self. And that's why I thought of you because I remember the very first time we coached. That was you got
speaker-1: You
speaker-0: right you helped me see it right away. And we're going to talk about a little bit more about how to embody that. So how would you describe this wise elder self? I I've called it your wise one within. to anyone that's never considered this before. 'Cause I think there are a lot of people that just kinda look they kinda look at me funny when I talk about wise elder yourself.
speaker-1: Well, let's begin with I kinda wanna go in a number of directions, so let me just get myself here. Every single human being knows themselves better than anybody else. Only you know when you're hungry. Only you know whether you like broccoli or cauliflower or the color red. No one can tell you that. I mean, they can try, but you still know. Like there's an inner knowing inside, an inner wisdom inside. There's always it's always there. Oftentimes what happens through school, teachers, parents, society in general, that inner wisdom, that inner voice gets covered up. You're often told as a child, I know better for you. Someone knows better. There's a better expert out there. And so as you grow up, you grow up believing that everybody else knows better than you. So what point do you graduate and get handed that I know? what's right for me card. It doesn't happen. It didn't happen for me. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, in my late twenties, you know, I had a successful career. I had a really successful career. I had a suite of offices on the mountain in Montreal. I had a, you know, an assistant. I was working with the president and d and and VPs of of the hospital board. They thought I was crazy, but I left. I, you know, I left because of that recognition that I'm not happy. I'm walk I'm looking around and I'm seeing everybody out there doing the same thing, working crazy hours or you know, whatever, nine to five even, but only living for the weekends and vacations. And life stops on Monday morning. And I remember dreading Sunday nights. All throughout school, throughout my career, working in organizations, I never liked Sunday nights. And I thought this this gotta be a better way to live. And and so that was the inkling of the inner wisdom coming through because I began to question. Questioning everything is what I have done my whole life. And I believe that when you question everything, that makes you a highly intelligent human being. Because just taking what people tell you is not your truth. And you have to do that, that's our role, each one of us, is to discover what that inner truth or inner wisdom or wise elder is. It's not outside you, it's not in what people tell you. It's buried oftentimes deep, deep, deep beneath. And you come to know that you're out of alignment with this when you aren't happy. That's one of the first symptoms. I'm not happy. right?
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. th that alignment, coming back to that alignment again, yes. And and you weren't the only one that dreaded Sunday Sunday afternoons and Sunday evenings. Yeah.
speaker-1: I know.
speaker-0: I know. So I you know, many years ago you taught me about my inner wisdom, even though it was there, by calling it out or ask, you know, you called me forth is what we used to call it in coaching. to see it, could see it myself. and and so I remember you asked me to get into mountain if I did yoga, what was my favorite pose It was mountain pose And I remember I was in my happened to have a little this office because I I didn't have a classroom at the time. And he said, I want you to stand there. And I thought, but wait, there are other people in the other room and get into a mountain pose. And so I did. Now, what do you feel? And and so often when I'm that mountain pose, I think of that when there's a question. gather, you know, my body up, embodying. And so talk a little bit about the the body-mind connection and self-care.
speaker-1: Yeah, body, mind, and self, I would add. So self-care is also self-acceptance. It's self-love. It's loving yourself no matter what. And I'll get to the body, mind, and self in a sec, but I want to just tell you a really quick little story. And I don't know if I ever told you this story. I was going for an advanced coach training on the way the brain works. I can't remember what it was called, but it was a very interesting course. And it was held in downtown Toronto. And, you know, downtown Toronto doesn't have a lot of trees or green space. But it was a summer afternoon or a spring afternoon. And I was I'm a I'm a nature girl. I love the outdoors. I need to be outside and especially on a nice day. Anyway, it had been raining a lot and I was all in white. I was Staying over at a friend's house, which was a half an hour walk from the venue. And I decided to go, we had a break at lunch and I decided to go for a walk. There was like a park there. And I was like, yay, there's a park. So I went into the park and I'm like walking happily, enjoying myself, breathing in the air of the trees and just being in nature. And I I didn't realize that right in front of me, because it had been raining, was a very slick. mud, muddy path that it didn't look like it was muddy, it looked completely like solid. I had no idea, but I put my foot down and woo, I went up and I landed on my side. And everybody it was funny because you know when those things happen, everything slows down. So I could see everybody's face like kind of going, tracking me, right? And I just got up. I jumped up and I went, ta-da.
speaker-0: Uh-huh.
speaker-1: Out at myself, my beautiful white outfit, and I am covered in mud, just covered in mud. So I I I walked away, kind of like, okay, this is interesting. I can't easily change my clothes. What am I gonna do? So I went to the washroom and I I started to try to scrub the mud off. But if you know mud, it just becomes more muddy, right? So I I kind of looked down at it and I thought, you know what? I can't do anything here. I'm just gonna go with it. I'm just gonna go with it. And I decided to own it. So I walked back into the classroom, the meeting room, and the instructor, the facilitator, looks over at me and she goes, my God, Annie, where did you get that outfit? It's gorgeous. And told her the story and she was on the floor laughing. It was, but it was such a testimony to not judging yourself. Such a testimony to being present and being okay with whatever is. And that, you know, like every single day, I still learn what self-love is, what acceptance is, what that wise elder is, that inner wisdom. Every day I learn this, and I hope we all do. But that was such a and then everyone came into the classroom and they're all admiring my outfit. I'm like laughing. I guess I must have done it artistically when I was doing the mud. They thought I was cleaning the mud. But that to me is the epitome of the body-mind self connection. Because it was you know, if you one of my favorite things, and I don't know if I ever showed you, shared this with you in coaching is slow time down. And so in that moment, I just kind of I I realized I'm at choice. I have a choice right now. I can get upset and my God, I'm, you know, I'm a mess and I I can't, I won't be able to enjoy the class and I won't be able to join anyone. But that doesn't feel very light or fun or and that's not who I am. What other choice do I have? I can really have fun with this. That's what I went with. So it's that slowing time down of recognizing you have a choice. And that's getting present with yourself, with your inner self. The body connection is what is the wisdom of my body? What's it telling me? What does it need? And it always tells you. You might ignore it a lot, but it will always tell you. That little crink in the neck tells you you're not sitting properly. You know, that pain in the low back means you might have to get up and walk around. The self connection, it's the kind of connector of both, the body and the mind, expressed through self, because there is only you. There is no one else like you, no one else who has had your experience, your exposure to situations and circumstances and family background and DNA and whatever else makes us each. unique and that's brilliant to be so unique.
speaker-0: Thank you for that. Yeah. And it's interesting, you I I've often heard body, mind, and spirit. You're talking about body, mind, and self. And isn't that what our spirit is? It's ourself. Our self is that spirit.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's funny 'cause I delayed a moment that slow time down. I made a choice there too. Is it body, mind, spirit? Everybody talks about that, but what the heck is spirit? And what do people know that to be? So to me, self is more inclusive. Everything I'm
speaker-0: Going, I've got things going on here. Whoa,
speaker-1: I
speaker-0: sorry.
speaker-1: That's okay. Let's go with the moment.
speaker-0: Did go to the moment. I didn't turn the phone off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that connection, self and spirit. Good. Yeah. So what attitudes and values reflect this this inner wisdom and do we need to not only recognize, but we have to develop, we have to practice them.
speaker-1: The foundation of it of it has to be self-love. And I know just based on my own experience that that's a very rare thing. My my observation of our world around us is that most people are judging the heck out of themselves. And if they're judging the heck out of themselves, believe me, they're judging everyone else too. Because if you're you can't if you can't love and accept yourself for who you are and what you are. it becomes projected outside because you are you get where you're at. So if you get a lot of judgment, it's probably because you're doing a lot of judgment on yourself first. So let's see. What was the actual question you asked? I want to make sure I answer it.
speaker-0: What key attitudes and values reflect this inner wisdom? And how do we because we have them, but sometimes we need to develop them more and practice them.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: But I think I just be as you're thinking that what you're saying is is is so true, that self-judgment. And I remember l learning that or that aha moment that if you are difficult with yourself, if you judge yourself harshly, which I did, then you probably judge others. It was like, no, I don't want to do that. So it's it's noticing for me.
speaker-1: And you got you developed your whole brand around self-compassion. Right? I mean, that self-compassion, you have to be kind to yourself. I mean, kindness is such a a highly rated value in this world. But self-kindness is comes back to that self-care. You know, it's it's that oxygen mask thing again. You can't be. kind to somebody unless you're kind to you. Not really. So a value of self, they're they're There has to be, it's the slow time down thing. It's there has to be space in in making a choice. Every moment of every single day, we are at choice, whether we acknowledge it or we don't. Yeah. We're making a choice. We're making a choice to get upset. We're making a choice to be in the flow. We're making a choice to. Take care of ourselves in this moment. I need to actually sit home, take a hot bath, meditate. And my girlfriends, they can go out another time. They can go out without me. Tonight, I need to take care of myself. Yeah. We're making a choice where I committed something to someone. I committed, say, meeting with them for lunch, and I have a million assessments to do, and I'm not going to get them in on time if I take that time. So am I valuing myself if I go ahead because I made a commitment? Or will my friend understand me if I say, I am so swamped, I'm so sorry. Can I take a rain check? We have to trust our like a lot of times our choices are made because we don't trust that person in front of us to also be in kind regard to us.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: We teach the world how to treat us, right? Yeah. So, you know, if I make a plan with you, Pam, and I say, let's go for lunch. And then we made that plan a month ago, let's say. And I think to myself, well, I committed to Pam. I have to go. But then I'm at lunch with you and my attention's on all the assessments that I have to do instead of being with you. How kind am I being to you?
speaker-0: Exactly. Yeah. You did. And I I had an example of that. just this past week. I I was going to go to Toronto to visit to see this woman that I've met online. She's in Ontario. And when I decided I thought, I could go to Toronto, I could take the train down. And then the closer the weekend got, I realized, dear. I realized the energy. I re realized where my energy was. And I realized it I'm not gonna spend any time with her. She's busy with her whatever she was doing. And so I wrote to her and said, I I have to reconsider. Let's plan something else. So that just reinforces that it was okay. It's it's giving ourselves permission too. And that to me comes from that wisdom. And I and I still remember a phrase you used years ago. you know. in these 10 seconds or in this very moment, you know, in I have a choice. And I've often said that to clients, you know, okay, now when we become aware, we're at choice. So yeah, thank you.
speaker-1: And choice creates awareness, right? Every time you make a choice. So when you made that choice, I'm going to take care of myself today. How did you feel?
speaker-0: relieved. Relieved.
speaker-1: That's that's the key. Whereas, you know, and again it conflict comes from values being at odds with each other, right? So if you're making a conflict of I care what others think of me, sorry, if you're making a value of what others think of me versus what I think of myself and how I feel about myself, and that becomes more important, then you're not gonna honor yourself. You're gonna honor your value of what others think of me. And then you're gonna go and feel maybe feel awful, maybe you'll feel great. But in the 10 seconds that you're making that choice, how does it feel to not honor yourself? How does it feel to put others before you in the moment where you really need that attention? There are times, don't get me wrong, there are times where putting others before you does work. Yeah. But if it's continually at your own expense, that's cutting off your limbs to fit into a box that is never gonna work for you. Ultimately it it will never work.
speaker-0: It it's on the road to burnout, I would guess. Emotional
speaker-1: Yes, I would.
speaker-0: emotional or work or whatever, yeah.
speaker-1: Pam, you and I both know it leads to burnout. I'm I'm I know it leads to burnout. That's how we spent the first 30 years of my life. Mm-hmm. Cutting off pieces of myself to to to fill what others wanted of me. Mm-hmm. And that was the hardest thing I've ever done was to turn that around. But I did. Yeah.
speaker-0: So how about now, Annie? What what is hard for you or what what are some of the obstacles that might come up for you now? Because you do, you know, you're sharing and I've seen you, you know. But gets difficult.
speaker-1: Everyday life.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: I mean, it's difficult for everyone, isn't it? There's a a friend who doesn't like the choice you're making and they're mad at you. There's financial issues all of a sudden that weren't there before. There's I said something I wish I hadn't, and you're beating yourself up for it. I mean, there's so many different things that happen in our everyday lives. And again, it comes down to what choice am I making in this moment? That works best. Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: I didn't think of this until right this second, but if you were to picture and describe your wise elder self that wisdom, what would she look like?
speaker-1: my goodness, I love that question. Pam, do you remember in I can't remember what the course was called, the very, very first in person coaches training institute course?
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. It was foundations, yeah. Foundations.
speaker-1: Okay. In that course, at the end of that session, do you remember they went around the room and they asked everyone to tell each other, at least in my year that I took it, which was like 2004, I think. what what is the essence or what it how did they put it? What do you what does that person remind you of? Do you remember what how did they phrase it?
speaker-0: Well I I can I only remember that it was the the saboteurs what we were picturing. the one
speaker-1: no, this was the D C as the greatest essence or of who Pam is or who Annie is. Yeah. And we went around the room. So they changed it, I guess. Anyway, they went around as the highlight of my training, honestly. Yeah. They went around the room and we told each other what we saw of each other.
speaker-0: yes, I do remember that, yes.
speaker-1: They all said to me, Lady of the lake. Wow. They saw Lady of the Lake. And I I sat with that. Because to have someone really truly see you, that's the gift of a good coach. Right? That's a gift of a good coach. And those coaches got it. That that was me. I am lady of the lake. It just resonated. And whenever I get into life's difficulties, which happens all the time because I'm a human being and who doesn't, I come back, I go shoulders down, barriers down, breathe. And then I think of Lady of the Lake and her majesty and her inner confidence and her self-awareness and her connection to source and I instantly go there.
speaker-0: Mm-hmm.
speaker-1: the most powerful imagery I can come up with for me. And I s I use it to this day.
speaker-0: And and I d and when the ver first time you ever asked me about this, you said I see an elder within you and describe her. And for me, because I'm short, I'm only five foot one, for me she was very tall and had long hair. I have short hair. So that's i interesting you that your experience with that activity impacted when you and I coached together. impacted me. I think I think that's the that foundation of where that you know concentrating on self-compassion, giving people permission, giving clients permission came from.
speaker-1: Nobody gets to be wrong.
speaker-0: I love that.
speaker-1: Nobody gets to be wrong. That's why I I really truly, that's why I'm mentoring coaches on the path of coaching mastery, because I've come to realize that the essence of an of a masterful coach is self-love, no judgment. Nobody gets to be wrong. You always find the two percent of what's right. Even when you disagree, find the two percent of what's true here, because there always is. Yeah. We don't have a lot of training as a society for how to navigate conflict in this world. We don't know how to disagree with each other without making the other an enemy. Yeah. But it's all over the place right now in politics, in government, in in organizations, in families. But love is the antidote to all of that. And honest to God, Pam. Love is the foundation of masterful coaching. And I don't mean romantic love. I mean love in the universal sense, the true sense. Yeah. Where you really get to quiet as a coach, you get to quiet who's the majority of your audience.
speaker-0: women over forty.
speaker-1: Okay. Coaches, any of them?
speaker-0: I'm I'm not sure. I hope so.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: it's still new, so people haven't let me know who they are that are listening, so
speaker-1: Okay, gotcha. So that over forty, the older that we get, and you know this too, the less we judge ourselves, the more permission we give ourselves to be ourselves without really giving quote unquote a rat's ass, what others think. I remember that Helen House in in our w in fulfillment, I think it was. in CTI impacted me so deeply, I will quote it forever. And Helen House, especially, because she was just such a beloved leader, facilitator to me. but she she got me up in front of the room to do a coaching, which, you know, yeah, let me just spill my guts in front of the world, right? But what she created, and that's why cultivating safety and trust is a core competency within ICF, because You have to have that trust because if you do not, then forget it. You're not going to make any progress as a client. Helen exuded that safety and trust. When I noticed it, she looked at me and she said, That's because you have it, Annie. And I realized she was she was right. Everything that we admire in another is something that we have within, or you would never recognize it. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah. I went on to share that with other with the groups. If you if you see that, then you possess it. Own it, as you said at the very beginning. Own it. Wow. We're at about 30 minutes and so what I'd like to do is invite you back to finish this conversation because I I love to I'd love to pull in my cards and see what kind of wisdom you can share with us there. So we'll end here and we'll be back next week.
speaker-1: Thanks, Pam
speaker-1: That's a lot of words. That's a lot.
speaker-0: That's a you've done a lot in those 40 years.
speaker-1: Well today I'm sixty eight, so hopefully I mean as of today. Not today is my birthday.
speaker-0: Okay. Wow. Yes. All right. You're almost at the seventy club. You can join us.
speaker-1: Getting there, getting there.
speaker-0: Good. So welcome to the podcast. And I always like to start off asking guests how you define self-care in general for you.
speaker-1: That is such a good question. And I remember well our time working together, Pam. And self-care was such a big aspect of it. And you know, it's been a big aspect of my life pretty much since the mid 1980s when I recognized that I was living fully out of alignment with my inner wisdom. And the way I knew that was because I was not happy. And I think happiness. Is a pretty good gauge of where you're at in your life. If you're not happy, then something's out of sync. And so my awareness began with, okay, well, what do I need to do to bring myself back into alignment? Because I'm out, completely out. And the beginning of self-care was that recognition. Number one, are you living in alignment with who you want to be, with who you, what your values are? Are you, you know, we we have this, especially coaches, I find, we're so well-intentioned and we so want to help other people that sometimes we forget ourselves. And the the bottom line and truth of it is, is that if you don't look after yourself, you're not good to anybody else. So taking care of yourself is actually a first priority, even though it's completely counter what we've been trained. To do. So it it feels selfish. It feels, how could I put myself first? But it's that sort of analogy of being on the plane next to you know a child, let's say, and you you want your inclinations. I've got to look after the child. But if you don't put on your own oxygen mask first, that kid's not going to be any good to anyone because they won't know how to do it. So did I kind of answer your question? absolutely.
speaker-0: Absolutely. I've used that the oxygen mask many times because that's how I see self-care too. We have to take care of ourselves. And our training has often been, no, everyone else comes first. So absolutely just I I agree. So with with the self-care cards, I came up with 11 areas of self-care and And in processing the cards and learning how to put together a deck, I knew I had to have 14 of them because I wanted a 56 card deck. And I thought, what are the other three? And I thought immediately of my wiser elder self. And the other one was my inner child, which we often talked about in coaching. And then the last one was celebrate. And so this wise elder self. And that's why I thought of you because I remember the very first time we coached. That was you got
speaker-1: You
speaker-0: right you helped me see it right away. And we're going to talk about a little bit more about how to embody that. So how would you describe this wise elder self? I I've called it your wise one within. to anyone that's never considered this before. 'Cause I think there are a lot of people that just kinda look they kinda look at me funny when I talk about wise elder yourself.
speaker-1: Well, let's begin with I kinda wanna go in a number of directions, so let me just get myself here. Every single human being knows themselves better than anybody else. Only you know when you're hungry. Only you know whether you like broccoli or cauliflower or the color red. No one can tell you that. I mean, they can try, but you still know. Like there's an inner knowing inside, an inner wisdom inside. There's always it's always there. Oftentimes what happens through school, teachers, parents, society in general, that inner wisdom, that inner voice gets covered up. You're often told as a child, I know better for you. Someone knows better. There's a better expert out there. And so as you grow up, you grow up believing that everybody else knows better than you. So what point do you graduate and get handed that I know? what's right for me card. It doesn't happen. It didn't happen for me. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, in my late twenties, you know, I had a successful career. I had a really successful career. I had a suite of offices on the mountain in Montreal. I had a, you know, an assistant. I was working with the president and d and and VPs of of the hospital board. They thought I was crazy, but I left. I, you know, I left because of that recognition that I'm not happy. I'm walk I'm looking around and I'm seeing everybody out there doing the same thing, working crazy hours or you know, whatever, nine to five even, but only living for the weekends and vacations. And life stops on Monday morning. And I remember dreading Sunday nights. All throughout school, throughout my career, working in organizations, I never liked Sunday nights. And I thought this this gotta be a better way to live. And and so that was the inkling of the inner wisdom coming through because I began to question. Questioning everything is what I have done my whole life. And I believe that when you question everything, that makes you a highly intelligent human being. Because just taking what people tell you is not your truth. And you have to do that, that's our role, each one of us, is to discover what that inner truth or inner wisdom or wise elder is. It's not outside you, it's not in what people tell you. It's buried oftentimes deep, deep, deep beneath. And you come to know that you're out of alignment with this when you aren't happy. That's one of the first symptoms. I'm not happy. right?
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. th that alignment, coming back to that alignment again, yes. And and you weren't the only one that dreaded Sunday Sunday afternoons and Sunday evenings. Yeah.
speaker-1: I know.
speaker-0: I know. So I you know, many years ago you taught me about my inner wisdom, even though it was there, by calling it out or ask, you know, you called me forth is what we used to call it in coaching. to see it, could see it myself. and and so I remember you asked me to get into mountain if I did yoga, what was my favorite pose It was mountain pose And I remember I was in my happened to have a little this office because I I didn't have a classroom at the time. And he said, I want you to stand there. And I thought, but wait, there are other people in the other room and get into a mountain pose. And so I did. Now, what do you feel? And and so often when I'm that mountain pose, I think of that when there's a question. gather, you know, my body up, embodying. And so talk a little bit about the the body-mind connection and self-care.
speaker-1: Yeah, body, mind, and self, I would add. So self-care is also self-acceptance. It's self-love. It's loving yourself no matter what. And I'll get to the body, mind, and self in a sec, but I want to just tell you a really quick little story. And I don't know if I ever told you this story. I was going for an advanced coach training on the way the brain works. I can't remember what it was called, but it was a very interesting course. And it was held in downtown Toronto. And, you know, downtown Toronto doesn't have a lot of trees or green space. But it was a summer afternoon or a spring afternoon. And I was I'm a I'm a nature girl. I love the outdoors. I need to be outside and especially on a nice day. Anyway, it had been raining a lot and I was all in white. I was Staying over at a friend's house, which was a half an hour walk from the venue. And I decided to go, we had a break at lunch and I decided to go for a walk. There was like a park there. And I was like, yay, there's a park. So I went into the park and I'm like walking happily, enjoying myself, breathing in the air of the trees and just being in nature. And I I didn't realize that right in front of me, because it had been raining, was a very slick. mud, muddy path that it didn't look like it was muddy, it looked completely like solid. I had no idea, but I put my foot down and woo, I went up and I landed on my side. And everybody it was funny because you know when those things happen, everything slows down. So I could see everybody's face like kind of going, tracking me, right? And I just got up. I jumped up and I went, ta-da.
speaker-0: Uh-huh.
speaker-1: Out at myself, my beautiful white outfit, and I am covered in mud, just covered in mud. So I I I walked away, kind of like, okay, this is interesting. I can't easily change my clothes. What am I gonna do? So I went to the washroom and I I started to try to scrub the mud off. But if you know mud, it just becomes more muddy, right? So I I kind of looked down at it and I thought, you know what? I can't do anything here. I'm just gonna go with it. I'm just gonna go with it. And I decided to own it. So I walked back into the classroom, the meeting room, and the instructor, the facilitator, looks over at me and she goes, my God, Annie, where did you get that outfit? It's gorgeous. And told her the story and she was on the floor laughing. It was, but it was such a testimony to not judging yourself. Such a testimony to being present and being okay with whatever is. And that, you know, like every single day, I still learn what self-love is, what acceptance is, what that wise elder is, that inner wisdom. Every day I learn this, and I hope we all do. But that was such a and then everyone came into the classroom and they're all admiring my outfit. I'm like laughing. I guess I must have done it artistically when I was doing the mud. They thought I was cleaning the mud. But that to me is the epitome of the body-mind self connection. Because it was you know, if you one of my favorite things, and I don't know if I ever showed you, shared this with you in coaching is slow time down. And so in that moment, I just kind of I I realized I'm at choice. I have a choice right now. I can get upset and my God, I'm, you know, I'm a mess and I I can't, I won't be able to enjoy the class and I won't be able to join anyone. But that doesn't feel very light or fun or and that's not who I am. What other choice do I have? I can really have fun with this. That's what I went with. So it's that slowing time down of recognizing you have a choice. And that's getting present with yourself, with your inner self. The body connection is what is the wisdom of my body? What's it telling me? What does it need? And it always tells you. You might ignore it a lot, but it will always tell you. That little crink in the neck tells you you're not sitting properly. You know, that pain in the low back means you might have to get up and walk around. The self connection, it's the kind of connector of both, the body and the mind, expressed through self, because there is only you. There is no one else like you, no one else who has had your experience, your exposure to situations and circumstances and family background and DNA and whatever else makes us each. unique and that's brilliant to be so unique.
speaker-0: Thank you for that. Yeah. And it's interesting, you I I've often heard body, mind, and spirit. You're talking about body, mind, and self. And isn't that what our spirit is? It's ourself. Our self is that spirit.
speaker-1: Yeah, it's funny 'cause I delayed a moment that slow time down. I made a choice there too. Is it body, mind, spirit? Everybody talks about that, but what the heck is spirit? And what do people know that to be? So to me, self is more inclusive. Everything I'm
speaker-0: Going, I've got things going on here. Whoa,
speaker-1: I
speaker-0: sorry.
speaker-1: That's okay. Let's go with the moment.
speaker-0: Did go to the moment. I didn't turn the phone off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that connection, self and spirit. Good. Yeah. So what attitudes and values reflect this this inner wisdom and do we need to not only recognize, but we have to develop, we have to practice them.
speaker-1: The foundation of it of it has to be self-love. And I know just based on my own experience that that's a very rare thing. My my observation of our world around us is that most people are judging the heck out of themselves. And if they're judging the heck out of themselves, believe me, they're judging everyone else too. Because if you're you can't if you can't love and accept yourself for who you are and what you are. it becomes projected outside because you are you get where you're at. So if you get a lot of judgment, it's probably because you're doing a lot of judgment on yourself first. So let's see. What was the actual question you asked? I want to make sure I answer it.
speaker-0: What key attitudes and values reflect this inner wisdom? And how do we because we have them, but sometimes we need to develop them more and practice them.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: But I think I just be as you're thinking that what you're saying is is is so true, that self-judgment. And I remember l learning that or that aha moment that if you are difficult with yourself, if you judge yourself harshly, which I did, then you probably judge others. It was like, no, I don't want to do that. So it's it's noticing for me.
speaker-1: And you got you developed your whole brand around self-compassion. Right? I mean, that self-compassion, you have to be kind to yourself. I mean, kindness is such a a highly rated value in this world. But self-kindness is comes back to that self-care. You know, it's it's that oxygen mask thing again. You can't be. kind to somebody unless you're kind to you. Not really. So a value of self, they're they're There has to be, it's the slow time down thing. It's there has to be space in in making a choice. Every moment of every single day, we are at choice, whether we acknowledge it or we don't. Yeah. We're making a choice. We're making a choice to get upset. We're making a choice to be in the flow. We're making a choice to. Take care of ourselves in this moment. I need to actually sit home, take a hot bath, meditate. And my girlfriends, they can go out another time. They can go out without me. Tonight, I need to take care of myself. Yeah. We're making a choice where I committed something to someone. I committed, say, meeting with them for lunch, and I have a million assessments to do, and I'm not going to get them in on time if I take that time. So am I valuing myself if I go ahead because I made a commitment? Or will my friend understand me if I say, I am so swamped, I'm so sorry. Can I take a rain check? We have to trust our like a lot of times our choices are made because we don't trust that person in front of us to also be in kind regard to us.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: We teach the world how to treat us, right? Yeah. So, you know, if I make a plan with you, Pam, and I say, let's go for lunch. And then we made that plan a month ago, let's say. And I think to myself, well, I committed to Pam. I have to go. But then I'm at lunch with you and my attention's on all the assessments that I have to do instead of being with you. How kind am I being to you?
speaker-0: Exactly. Yeah. You did. And I I had an example of that. just this past week. I I was going to go to Toronto to visit to see this woman that I've met online. She's in Ontario. And when I decided I thought, I could go to Toronto, I could take the train down. And then the closer the weekend got, I realized, dear. I realized the energy. I re realized where my energy was. And I realized it I'm not gonna spend any time with her. She's busy with her whatever she was doing. And so I wrote to her and said, I I have to reconsider. Let's plan something else. So that just reinforces that it was okay. It's it's giving ourselves permission too. And that to me comes from that wisdom. And I and I still remember a phrase you used years ago. you know. in these 10 seconds or in this very moment, you know, in I have a choice. And I've often said that to clients, you know, okay, now when we become aware, we're at choice. So yeah, thank you.
speaker-1: And choice creates awareness, right? Every time you make a choice. So when you made that choice, I'm going to take care of myself today. How did you feel?
speaker-0: relieved. Relieved.
speaker-1: That's that's the key. Whereas, you know, and again it conflict comes from values being at odds with each other, right? So if you're making a conflict of I care what others think of me, sorry, if you're making a value of what others think of me versus what I think of myself and how I feel about myself, and that becomes more important, then you're not gonna honor yourself. You're gonna honor your value of what others think of me. And then you're gonna go and feel maybe feel awful, maybe you'll feel great. But in the 10 seconds that you're making that choice, how does it feel to not honor yourself? How does it feel to put others before you in the moment where you really need that attention? There are times, don't get me wrong, there are times where putting others before you does work. Yeah. But if it's continually at your own expense, that's cutting off your limbs to fit into a box that is never gonna work for you. Ultimately it it will never work.
speaker-0: It it's on the road to burnout, I would guess. Emotional
speaker-1: Yes, I would.
speaker-0: emotional or work or whatever, yeah.
speaker-1: Pam, you and I both know it leads to burnout. I'm I'm I know it leads to burnout. That's how we spent the first 30 years of my life. Mm-hmm. Cutting off pieces of myself to to to fill what others wanted of me. Mm-hmm. And that was the hardest thing I've ever done was to turn that around. But I did. Yeah.
speaker-0: So how about now, Annie? What what is hard for you or what what are some of the obstacles that might come up for you now? Because you do, you know, you're sharing and I've seen you, you know. But gets difficult.
speaker-1: Everyday life.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: I mean, it's difficult for everyone, isn't it? There's a a friend who doesn't like the choice you're making and they're mad at you. There's financial issues all of a sudden that weren't there before. There's I said something I wish I hadn't, and you're beating yourself up for it. I mean, there's so many different things that happen in our everyday lives. And again, it comes down to what choice am I making in this moment? That works best. Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: I didn't think of this until right this second, but if you were to picture and describe your wise elder self that wisdom, what would she look like?
speaker-1: my goodness, I love that question. Pam, do you remember in I can't remember what the course was called, the very, very first in person coaches training institute course?
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. It was foundations, yeah. Foundations.
speaker-1: Okay. In that course, at the end of that session, do you remember they went around the room and they asked everyone to tell each other, at least in my year that I took it, which was like 2004, I think. what what is the essence or what it how did they put it? What do you what does that person remind you of? Do you remember what how did they phrase it?
speaker-0: Well I I can I only remember that it was the the saboteurs what we were picturing. the one
speaker-1: no, this was the D C as the greatest essence or of who Pam is or who Annie is. Yeah. And we went around the room. So they changed it, I guess. Anyway, they went around as the highlight of my training, honestly. Yeah. They went around the room and we told each other what we saw of each other.
speaker-0: yes, I do remember that, yes.
speaker-1: They all said to me, Lady of the lake. Wow. They saw Lady of the Lake. And I I sat with that. Because to have someone really truly see you, that's the gift of a good coach. Right? That's a gift of a good coach. And those coaches got it. That that was me. I am lady of the lake. It just resonated. And whenever I get into life's difficulties, which happens all the time because I'm a human being and who doesn't, I come back, I go shoulders down, barriers down, breathe. And then I think of Lady of the Lake and her majesty and her inner confidence and her self-awareness and her connection to source and I instantly go there.
speaker-0: Mm-hmm.
speaker-1: the most powerful imagery I can come up with for me. And I s I use it to this day.
speaker-0: And and I d and when the ver first time you ever asked me about this, you said I see an elder within you and describe her. And for me, because I'm short, I'm only five foot one, for me she was very tall and had long hair. I have short hair. So that's i interesting you that your experience with that activity impacted when you and I coached together. impacted me. I think I think that's the that foundation of where that you know concentrating on self-compassion, giving people permission, giving clients permission came from.
speaker-1: Nobody gets to be wrong.
speaker-0: I love that.
speaker-1: Nobody gets to be wrong. That's why I I really truly, that's why I'm mentoring coaches on the path of coaching mastery, because I've come to realize that the essence of an of a masterful coach is self-love, no judgment. Nobody gets to be wrong. You always find the two percent of what's right. Even when you disagree, find the two percent of what's true here, because there always is. Yeah. We don't have a lot of training as a society for how to navigate conflict in this world. We don't know how to disagree with each other without making the other an enemy. Yeah. But it's all over the place right now in politics, in government, in in organizations, in families. But love is the antidote to all of that. And honest to God, Pam. Love is the foundation of masterful coaching. And I don't mean romantic love. I mean love in the universal sense, the true sense. Yeah. Where you really get to quiet as a coach, you get to quiet who's the majority of your audience.
speaker-0: women over forty.
speaker-1: Okay. Coaches, any of them?
speaker-0: I'm I'm not sure. I hope so.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: it's still new, so people haven't let me know who they are that are listening, so
speaker-1: Okay, gotcha. So that over forty, the older that we get, and you know this too, the less we judge ourselves, the more permission we give ourselves to be ourselves without really giving quote unquote a rat's ass, what others think. I remember that Helen House in in our w in fulfillment, I think it was. in CTI impacted me so deeply, I will quote it forever. And Helen House, especially, because she was just such a beloved leader, facilitator to me. but she she got me up in front of the room to do a coaching, which, you know, yeah, let me just spill my guts in front of the world, right? But what she created, and that's why cultivating safety and trust is a core competency within ICF, because You have to have that trust because if you do not, then forget it. You're not going to make any progress as a client. Helen exuded that safety and trust. When I noticed it, she looked at me and she said, That's because you have it, Annie. And I realized she was she was right. Everything that we admire in another is something that we have within, or you would never recognize it. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah. I went on to share that with other with the groups. If you if you see that, then you possess it. Own it, as you said at the very beginning. Own it. Wow. We're at about 30 minutes and so what I'd like to do is invite you back to finish this conversation because I I love to I'd love to pull in my cards and see what kind of wisdom you can share with us there. So we'll end here and we'll be back next week.
speaker-1: Thanks, Pam
