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This is an Aero.
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Mmm.
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And this is the sound of its minty bubbles. Conjuring
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melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
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moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
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Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
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Irish beef is all about trust, from grass-based diets to
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complete traceability. M & S select farmers in Cork rear
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their cattle with real respect for the land and the animal.
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It's that care, right from the start, that delivers depth
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of flavour.
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On the plate.
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This is Irish beef done properly. This is not just food,
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this is M & S food.
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If you know me, you know that I love music
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and songs like the one right there. I mean, come on.
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That voice, those lyrics. I wish you could see me
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rocking out right now. But can you feel it? Melissa
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Etheridge is one of rock music's great female icons. She
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burst onto the American rock scene as a singer-songwriter back
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in 1988 with her self-titled debut album and has not
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left since. Melissa found her love for music early on,
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picking up a guitar at age eight, strumming until her
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fingers bled. Melissa was writing songs by age 11 when
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she found her voice. Known for her raspy vocals and
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confessional lyrics, Melissa has remained one of America's favorite female
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singer-songwriters for more than three decades. with two Grammys and
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15 nominations, an Academy Award, five platinum albums, and much
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more over the course of her prolific career. She is
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a rock star, a mother, an activist, and a trailblazer,
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and she never shies away from speaking her mind. She
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mirrors the same raw honesty you hear in her music
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in her life, using her songs to share her message.
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Early in her recording career, while performing at a celebration
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of the inauguration of President Bill Clinton, Melissa came out
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to the crowd announcing that she was gay. Her album,
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Yes I Am, followed later that year, featuring hits like
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I'm the Only One and Come to My Window, that
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powerful song that we can't help but rock out to,
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which won her a Grammy for Best Female Rock Vocal Performance.
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But with the highs came the lows. She endured a
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difficult childhood, a public battle with breast cancer in 2004,
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and the heartbreaking loss of her son Beckett in 2020.
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Through it all, music has been her constant, helping her
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find strength to carry on. And Melissa is opening up
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about all of it in her latest memoir, Talking to
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My Angels. As a longtime fan of her music, I
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wanted to meet this Melissa Etheridge, the survivor, the one
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behind the lyrics, offstage and out of the spotlight. She's
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endured the unimaginable throughout her life, yet she chooses joy
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every day. And even after all this time, she is
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still evolving onstage and in life. Now, this is someone
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I want to learn from. I sat down with Melissa
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to talk about the lessons she's learned, the wisdom she
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has to share, and at the heart of it all,
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she says, everything is love. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to
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my podcast, Making Space. First of all, I love sitting
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with you. Melissa, I have to tell you something. This book,
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Talking to My Angels, which I'm holding in my hand,
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is so surprising in so many ways to me. It's
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a beautiful book. It's a book that I couldn't put down.
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And it's full of epiphanies. Everyone finds their light through something.
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Sometimes they have a near-death experience. Sometimes, I don't know,
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all kinds of things happen. But for you, what was
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the thing that happened that... Turn the lights on inside
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your house.
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How you begin the book?
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Oh, well, actually, really, the first thing that happened was
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I had an accidental overdose of cannabis. I ate an
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edible and it was too much, which is a common thing. Unfortunately,
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I had kind of that epiphany thing that one has
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about life. And shortly thereafter, I was diagnosed with breast
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cancer in 2004. So those two things together completely changed
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my life outlook, my whole what I thought life was.
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It's interesting because I feel like there are people who
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seek things. They seek answers. They seek enlightenment. There are
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people who find those things, and then there are people
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who go one step further and apply them. It becomes
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part of their life. Okay. The seeking part for you
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was something I feel like you've been after your whole life.
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Tell me about that pursuit. I feel like you've been looking. Like,
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show me, tell me, somebody. Someone used to say I
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wrote a lot of songs about somebody. Somebody bring me
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some water. Somebody do this.
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And yeah, I think choosing the path of the artist,
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of the musician, of the rock star was one of
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really searching for Mass acceptance, you know, whether it was
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I didn't get enough from my mom or any of
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those excuses in the, you know, in the past we
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can have.
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This was a good.
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30, 40 years of kind of searching for myself through
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my art, through what I enjoy.
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And then, you know, looking for meaning. Sometimes you don't
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know you're lost.
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Until you actually look and see that you're on a path,
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you know, and then you're like, oh, there's the path.
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Well, I feel like you were seeking love a lot.
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You wanted love. You wanted someone to love you. You
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wanted someone to tell you you were okay. And you
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were the kind of person who just stayed in relationships,
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good or bad. It didn't matter. But you wanted them.
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You wanted them to love you.
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Yeah.
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Growing up with kind of a distant mother, I think
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that had a real influence on it.
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And my older sister was unkind. She had her own issues.
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Because she also had a distant mother, she just dealt
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with it differently. I had that longing to have sort
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of a nurturing, a kind of nurturing. And I would
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find this emotional response when I would sing. I would
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play these really sad songs and I would feel this, oh, this, oh,
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kind of a hug. And so I kept searching for that.
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When your initial relationships aren't so good, then the ones
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that come after, you're still looking to fix those.
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So it's kind of a rough road sometimes.
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A lot of people march all the way through life
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and go straight to their grave, just carrying it. You know,
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that's what we carry. But you didn't do that. You
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decided that was not for you. But recognizing that you
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are in a relationship where your mom, you know, was
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distant and cold, doesn't resolve it. It just makes you
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recognize it. So you must have done something. Did you
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do something to put down that baggage? Yeah, it's a practice.
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I call it a practice.
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It's not, it's not like one day I went, this
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is it. And I changed.
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It's a, wait a minute, this isn't working for me anymore.
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This is harmful to me. This is making me unhappy.
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And when I had my breast cancer diagnosis 19 years ago,
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I'm 19 years cancer-free now. And so when I had
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that diagnosis, I was like, wait a minute, I think
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these bad feelings, this emptiness, this ache I have inside
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actually becomes illness. It becomes dis-ease. And that is where
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my cancer came from. To me, this was my journey.
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So to me, being happy is the difference between life
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and death. And so really, really starting a path where
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my main concern was finding my joy.
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And that's a practice every day. It's not like.
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A graduation diploma you get or something, and then everything's fine.
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You just practice it every day and it gets easier.
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I want to talk about just how it started because
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to get where you are, you had to go through it.
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And you describe in your book what it was like
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to grow up with a mother who hardly looked your way.
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You were practically tap dancing and spinning plates like, mom,
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over here, I'm over here. But she wasn't having it
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and she wasn't interested in And your sister was, you
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described her as unkind. And that's a real, that's a
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lot for a little kid to carry around.
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You know, children have all kinds of, you know, situations
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growing up. And I'm sure there's some that were worse
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than mine. Mine was just, my mother was depressed. My
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mother had a hard time. She was, ended up really
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supporting the family. My father was a teacher and Gosh,
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teachers just don't make enough money in this world. So
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she had a lot of issues herself. And it takes
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someone growing up. and actually realizing that their parents were humans.
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You not only forgive, but you let it go. You just,
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you know, there's no need to hold on to that stuff.
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Were you scared of carrying on patterns? Because a lot
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of stuff's so ingrained in us, we may try to
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do the exact opposite of our parents. But there are
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so many patterns that, you know, I mean, I look
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inside myself and when I see a part of me,
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I'm like, oh my God, that's my dad. Oh, that's
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my mom. But did you sort those out? Because you've got,
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you know, your children to make sure that that wasn't
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going to be part of the way you raised them.
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The good news is I had a really great father.
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My father was just a blast. He was, he grew
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up like in the dust bowl. He grew up, you know,
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a migrant farmer. He grew up in poverty. So everything
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that he got, he was very grateful for. Someone helped
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him get a scholarship to college, a sports scholarship. So
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he was able to get his life together and become
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a teacher. And so he had such gratitude about every
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little thing in life. And gratitude is just great medicine.
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If you can just do appreciation every day, you will
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be better. You will find so much joy. So he
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really helped me do that. So I had that to
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kind of model after I said, I'm just going to
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be like my dad, you know, and that's how I parent.
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You know, some people think my kids don't have a dad,
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but my father parented me. So I think I parent
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like a father, you know, and so it really worked
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out in my life, walking a path of how my
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father loved me and just loved kids, just love them.
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You know what?
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I was asking a lady on our show, I said,
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how did you parent your adult children? Because they're She
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had beautiful kids who were in the studio. They just
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happened to be on the plaza and we brought them inside.
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And she goes, oh, it's easy. She said, it's four words.
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And I said, oh, what is it? And she said,
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listen and love, love, love.
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Yeah.
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She said, that's it.
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You have nothing else you have to do. And then
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get out of the way, basically.
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Yeah.
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Some people think you have to show them right from wrong.
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They come in. They know.
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Human beings, when they're born, they know so much. And
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they are They evidently already know, you know, iPhones and
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computers when they're born, obviously. So, you know, they, they
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come in with this and, and just letting them be
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who they are and letting, letting them find their.
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Their way.
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That's the, this is, this is a, a journey, a
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story and letting them build their own is.
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Is I think what, what you need to do. You
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talk about so many cool things.
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Like you say, sometimes it's easy to lose the parts
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of you in your life when you're a a celebrity, basically,
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because you're just in this different world, and it's hard
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to pinpoint. And I was thinking about how life is
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full of exclamation points. You got the Grammy. You're getting married.
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It's a boy. Yay, yay. And then it also has
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the lows, getting divorced, a loss, et cetera. But most
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of the days of our lives are just Wednesdays. They're
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not those days. They're regular days. And I was just wondering...
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How are your Wednesdays? My Wednesdays are fantastic.
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I have been practicing finding my joy every day for
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20 years now.
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And I've gotten pretty good at it.
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And I love my Wednesdays. I love my every days.
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And when my down days come, I know, hey, it's
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not going to be like this forever. So, you know,
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let me now I know what I want because I
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know what I don't want. And then when my crazy
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updates come, I'm like, yeah, this is great. I know
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it's not going to be like this forever. But, you know,
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it's and you just ride this beautiful wave and it's
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it's delicious.
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I love it.
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Coming up, Melissa opens up about the loss of her
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son Beckett and her journey to heal. Stay with us.
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This is an Aero.
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Mmm.
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And this is the sound of its minty bubbles. Conjuring
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melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
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moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
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Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
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Remember wobbling along on your first bike or grinding gears
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during driving lessons? Practice makes perfect. Well, selling property is
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exactly the same. You mightn't have sold very often, but
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Sherry Fitzgerald has for over 40 years. With so much experience,
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you can trust any of our 100-plus offices nationwide to
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streamline every step of your sale. All while our online portal, MySherryFits,
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showcases your property 24-7. Sherry Fitzgerald. Trusted selling starts here.
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On the Connolly family farm in Monaghan, every egg tells
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a story. Free-range hens, high welfare standards, and a family
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that manages every step themselves. It's simple food done with integrity.
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Rich yolks, honest flavour, and proudly Irish. This is not
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just food, this is M & S food.
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M & S I love how you say at the
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end of it all is love. At the end of
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the greatest despair is love. At the end of the
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highest high is love. As the storm passes, that's it.
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It's just there. And I think that's such a beautiful sentiment.
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How did you come to that understanding given the loss
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you've been through? Well, I have a deep belief that
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we're all here in this reality or life or whatever
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we want.
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To call it to create. And, and I also believe that,
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that it's, it's one thing. It's one, it's like a
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yin and a yang, and you've got the light and
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the dark and the positive and the negative and the
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good and the bad, yet it's all one thing.
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And that one thing is love.
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And when you can look at the bad and say, okay,
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this is the contrast to the white. I wouldn't know the, the, the,
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you know, the, the, I'm thinking of the white and
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the black and the yin and yang, but it's, you know,
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the light and dark. If I wouldn't know the light,
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if I didn't know the dark. And so, yes, this
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hurts today and it might hurt for a while, but
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this is what makes my life rich.
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And, and this is also love.
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And this teaches me, teaches me how much when I
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lost my son, I learned how much my capacity for
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love was, you know, that not only loving him and
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missing him and being okay, but loving myself enough not
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to go into major depression and guilt and shame, which
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so many families that lose loved ones to opioid addiction,
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just the shame is too big.
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It's huge.
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So I had to believe that there's an over-surrounding love
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to everything.
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Everything is love.
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To come to that epiphany, and as you said, you
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lost Beckett during the pandemic. So many people were going
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through loss and isolation, kind of, and there wasn't a
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community to help and to hug and to care for
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everybody who needed it like you. But to come to
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that place of letting go of guilt and shame, how
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long did that take? What was it like in those
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initial days and when did you get there?
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Well, again, it's a practice.
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There can be days where the shadow comes on me
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and I find myself thinking, oh, what if I had
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done this? What if I had only done that? And
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that doesn't serve me and it causes me pain. So
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My practice is to go, no, he has gone from
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this physical world and he's in non-physical. And we only
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perceive 4% of the energy that actually is. So he
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is part of that larger non-physical space. And that space
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doesn't have the contrast, doesn't have the resistance that we
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have here, that we are choosing that causes growth. The
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non-physical is... is that heaven, is that joyous space. And
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for me to feel him there, I need to be
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in that joyous space. So when I'm in a dark space,
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I'm away from all.
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Of my loved ones.
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So it's my job to find my space again of
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loving myself, going, no, no, no, I did the best
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I could. And he made his choices. And There are
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some that check out. There are some that leave earlier
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than others. And he could not handle his life at
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this time.
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Yeah.
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When do you feel him the most, Melissa?
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In the mornings.
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You know, when you're first waking up, that's when, that's when,
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you know, the, the times I used to always text
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with him and talk with him.
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And, and so it's, it's like, he's there. I'm like, okay,
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good morning.
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You know, I was being watch out for me all
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day or, you know, whatever I'm, you know, him and
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my father too. I lost my father very, I lost
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my father when I was 30. So, you know, I'd
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already been kind of, you know, pulling on his energy
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and asking that.
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And so, you know, I really feel surrounded. That's why
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I call it Talking to My Angels.
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That's why the book is titled that, because that energy,
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those lives, those souls that I have known that have
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been a part of my heart are still supporting me.
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You talk about just how spiritual you are and you
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always have been. And you said church was part of
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your life when you were younger. How does your spirituality,
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I mean, you've obviously grown through so much, but how
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has it changed or evolved over time?
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Where are you today, I guess?
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Yeah.
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No, I loved church when I was a kid. We
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went to the Methodist church and I loved the music
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and I loved the fellowship. I loved all the people.
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And then I had friends in school that started taking
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me to like church camps and I played the guitar. So,
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you know, it's the seventies and I'm, I'm playing the
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guitar and sing and pass it on. And, you know,
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it's that, that was the thing you did. And it
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was cool to be the, the person who played guitar.
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And so I, I, I really loved that. And I
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went to Baptist church camp. And so, and I enjoyed
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sort of the, um, I enjoyed the stories and I, the,
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the very center of all the religions, all our great, uh,
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religions of the world the center is love one another
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like you would love yourself so if it's that sort
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of if you you want to love someone like you
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love yourself so you got to love yourself and if
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you want them to love you you know so it's
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it's a lot about you know giving yourself that love
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and and know that you know we're all one it's
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it's you know that's in christianity too and i did
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a lot of um work with a youth group in
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high school. We did Godspell, you know, and I found
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that even when I discovered I was gay, I went
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to a chaplain and talked to him. And he even said,
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bless his heart, he said, look, there might be people
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here that would say it's wrong, but I cannot believe
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that God would make a love that is wrong. And
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that just set my path for me right there at
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the age of 19. I was like, oh, right on.
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And so I never felt like I needed to push
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against religion. I did not find an organized religion after
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that that I related to, but I always had a
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spirituality of there is something else other than this, you know,
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see it.
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Hear it, smell it, taste it, touch reality that we have.
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There's something else, and it's part of me, and it's
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part of all of us, you know, and I just
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walk with that.
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Spirituality.
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You said love yourself, and that is a thing that's
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hard to come by. In reading your book, we talk
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about your relationships and how you didn't have that, and
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then somehow you did. Was it a moment? What moment
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was it where you decided, wow, this is what I
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needed all along?
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It's a bunch of little moments. Again, it's a practice.
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It took me to understand to kind of, you know,
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we talked about organized religion, to kind of get rid
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of the idea that there was a judgmental force, you know,
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whether it's a judgmental God or whatever, that there's a
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00:23:37.829 --> 00:23:43.049
judgmental force out there looking at me saying, you know,
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you're not.
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Doing this right, you're doing this wrong.
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00:23:45.789 --> 00:23:52.609
And when you have that, it's very hard to love
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00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:57.769
yourself when you're looking to please something out there. For me,
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00:23:57.809 --> 00:24:01.470
it started to become fame. I had to please the press,
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00:24:01.650 --> 00:24:05.890
the media, the people, the whatever is in the moment.
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I had to please them for me to be okay.
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And that was tearing me apart. And it tears apart.
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00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:17.720
I see it tear apart celebrities all the time. And
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00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:22.200
when you give that power away, that's a great unhappiness.
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And so right after cancer, I made a choice. I said,
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what other people think about me is none of my business.
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I've got to think that I'm okay. I got to
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love the music that I make. I got to love
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the people that are around. I got to love the
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choices I'm making or else no, you know, the answer
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is no. And the more I walk that every day,
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the more it helped me in my relationships because I,
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I would, it would not be, I wasn't against, you know,
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my partner. I was just like, no, I need this
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00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:04.819
for me. And that split up my second marriage. So, so,
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you know, it was just, I changed and, and that's
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what happens.
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00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:10.319
Yeah, it does.
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I mean, yeah, you change and evolve. And it's interesting about,
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I was just thinking, I went through breast cancer and
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I remembered coming out of it all, And I'm a
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00:25:19.690 --> 00:25:21.809
pleaser too. I'm like, do they like me? Am I
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00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:25.089
doing it right? Is everyone okay with me? And I
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00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:28.250
remembered having this weird epiphany. I woke up, I was
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just laying in my apartment. I was by myself and
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I looked around and I got four words. I got,
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you can't scare me. And all of a sudden I
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was like, this is so weird. It's kind of out
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of body. And I remember I was working at Dateline.
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00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.390
I marched into my big boss's office. I went to
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the 52nd floor like a crazy person. I go, let
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00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:51.089
me tell you something. There's a new hour of today.
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It's for me. I'll tell you why. I'm not afraid.
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I went through this whole speech, and he was kind
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of like, who the hell let her in here? But afterwards,
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I ended up getting that gig, and I remembered thinking...
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the scariest, just like the epiphanies that you got from
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cancer and how it changed you and how you weren't
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00:26:09.910 --> 00:26:12.609
pleasing anymore. You were pleasing yourself. You were like, I
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got to do this for me. So big monumental changes.
446
00:26:16.609 --> 00:26:20.390
You had cancer, the loss of your son. Do you
447
00:26:20.410 --> 00:26:24.180
think those were probably the big tectonic plate shifts in
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your life?
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Yeah, I hope that's all. I mean, life does this.
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00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:31.400
And yes, they were.
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00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:33.700
They were huge.
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The cancer, because just because it was so long ago,
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I was able to really see that what I thought
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and what I did affected me physically. And so that, that,
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you know, I changed the way I ate. I changed
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the way I thought, changed my exercise, my, you know,
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00:26:52.789 --> 00:26:58.519
the joy of life, all of that. Beckett, Beckett really
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00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:03.589
taught me I can't afford any guilt or shame in
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my life or it or it will it will destroy me.
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00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:09.410
And that and then I'm no good for my other
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00:27:09.450 --> 00:27:12.170
three children. How you know, how does that work? That's
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not right.
463
00:27:12.730 --> 00:27:17.660
So, yeah. So I keep those those. Yes, we're definitely
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00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.380
the two big changes in my life.
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00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:24.559
Up next, the role music has played in Melissa's life
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00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.759
and what it's like being on tour these days. That's
467
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:28.279
after the break.
468
00:27:33.380 --> 00:27:34.660
This is an Aero.
469
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.980
Mmm.
470
00:27:38.779 --> 00:27:44.789
And this is the sound of its minty bubbles. Conjuring
471
00:27:44.869 --> 00:27:52.710
melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
472
00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:55.930
moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
473
00:27:57.029 --> 00:27:59.450
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
474
00:28:04.369 --> 00:28:07.289
On the Connolly family farm in Monaghan, every egg tells
475
00:28:07.349 --> 00:28:11.779
a story. Free-range hens, high welfare standards, and a family
476
00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:16.380
that manages every step themselves. It's simple food done with integrity.
477
00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:20.519
Rich yolks, honest flavour, and proudly Irish. This is not
478
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:22.319
just food, this is M & S food.
479
00:28:23.769 --> 00:28:27.049
Remember wobbling on your first bike? Practice made perfect and
480
00:28:27.130 --> 00:28:30.720
selling properties the same. Sherry Fitzgerald streamlines every sale thanks
481
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.359
to over 40 years experience, over 100 offices nationwide and
482
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:38.539
cutting edge technology. Sherry Fitzgerald. Trusted selling starts here.
483
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:49.240
The music is throughout this book, which I love. I
484
00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:52.109
love the lyrics. I love how you play everything in beautifully.
485
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:55.970
And music has been your, that's been the, there's a
486
00:28:56.009 --> 00:28:59.690
constant that goes the thread through everyone's life and that's yours.
487
00:29:00.950 --> 00:29:02.809
Did music save you? What saved you?
488
00:29:04.009 --> 00:29:06.309
You could say, I mean, I had music.
489
00:29:06.390 --> 00:29:09.670
I always, when I felt something emotionally, I would go
490
00:29:09.730 --> 00:29:11.549
to my room and I would pick up my guitar
491
00:29:11.589 --> 00:29:14.109
and I would play and I would be able to
492
00:29:14.609 --> 00:29:18.039
work through it. So yeah, you could say music saved me.
493
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:20.980
I don't know how to do anything else. So it's
494
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.339
a good thing that This is how I make my living,
495
00:29:23.859 --> 00:29:27.759
you know, and I'm grateful people actually enjoy my music.
496
00:29:27.819 --> 00:29:28.980
So it works.
497
00:29:29.529 --> 00:29:31.769
How does it feel now? Like you're on tour now.
498
00:29:32.289 --> 00:29:35.170
I mean, look, we all know all the songs. What
499
00:29:35.230 --> 00:29:37.970
is it like being on tour today? Is there a
500
00:29:38.089 --> 00:29:41.470
difference in how you... like when you're not pleasing anymore,
501
00:29:41.609 --> 00:29:45.079
you're just loving it. You're just doing your thing. How
502
00:29:45.259 --> 00:29:47.220
has your performing kind of changed?
503
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:48.319
Yeah.
504
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.619
19 years ago, I decided that I wanted to be
505
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:54.240
the rock star I wanted to be, not what I, again,
506
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:57.529
thought somebody else wanted me to be. And when I
507
00:29:57.569 --> 00:30:00.930
did that, I started playing the guitar better. If you
508
00:30:00.970 --> 00:30:03.220
come see me in concert, you will be surprised at
509
00:30:03.259 --> 00:30:04.380
how well I play the guitar.
510
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.480
You won't know that. And that's one of.
511
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:09.759
My favorites, especially when I see the husbands or the
512
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:13.259
boyfriends that have been dragged along to the show, you know,
513
00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:14.220
and they look at.
514
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:17.309
Me and they're like, hey, she's good.
515
00:30:17.549 --> 00:30:18.849
You know, this is all right.
516
00:30:18.869 --> 00:30:20.490
And by the end, they're rocking.
517
00:30:21.049 --> 00:30:24.970
But, you know, so the more fun I have, the
518
00:30:25.009 --> 00:30:28.230
more fun the audience has. So that is just what
519
00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:30.990
it's all about. My musicians, when the four of us
520
00:30:31.049 --> 00:30:36.150
are clicking and it's rocking, you can't beat that.
521
00:30:36.210 --> 00:30:37.029
That's what it's all about.
522
00:30:37.690 --> 00:30:40.200
One of my dear friends is Maria Shriver. I love her.
523
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:42.259
You guys are very similar in a lot of ways
524
00:30:42.339 --> 00:30:44.779
in terms of how you see the world. But she
525
00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:48.740
always says, envision your life as you would at, how
526
00:30:48.769 --> 00:30:50.720
would you like to see yourself, she says to me,
527
00:30:50.769 --> 00:30:54.390
at 60, at 70, at 80. How do you see yourself,
528
00:30:54.490 --> 00:30:56.690
if you were to close your eyes and transport yourself
529
00:30:56.690 --> 00:31:01.769
10 years ahead, how do you see yourself at 70.
530
00:31:01.769 --> 00:31:02.470
At 80?
531
00:31:02.470 --> 00:31:05.789
At 70 and 80, I believe I will have practiced
532
00:31:06.170 --> 00:31:15.339
this way of life every day, and I see myself
533
00:31:15.700 --> 00:31:20.140
filled with love. surrounded by loved ones doing what I love.
534
00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:21.019
Oh, my God.
535
00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:24.000
Is that what it's all about?
536
00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:24.759
Yes.
537
00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:25.380
That's so good.
538
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:25.910
I win.
539
00:31:26.259 --> 00:31:27.319
You do win.
540
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:28.440
You do win.
541
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:33.140
Oh, my God. Hey, who are you listening to these days? Oh, God.
542
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.440
Every time anyone asks me that, all of my acting
543
00:31:36.460 --> 00:31:40.470
goes right out of my head. Right out of my head.
544
00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:44.150
I love the band Greta Van Fleet. If you've never
545
00:31:44.170 --> 00:31:47.819
heard them, They sound like Led Zeppelin and they're amazing.
546
00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:51.359
The lead singer has a voice that will absolutely slay you.
547
00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:57.500
I love the Italian rock group, Maneskin, I think is
548
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.059
how it's, Maneskin.
549
00:31:59.319 --> 00:31:59.599
I know.
550
00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:02.460
Yeah, no, well, I have two 16-year-olds. I listen to
551
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:05.519
all kinds of music, you know, so it's cool. The
552
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.289
title of this podcast, Melissa, is Making Space. It's about
553
00:32:08.329 --> 00:32:10.990
when you hit pause on your life and say, I'm
554
00:32:11.029 --> 00:32:14.339
making space for myself. When you have a blank slate day,
555
00:32:14.710 --> 00:32:16.759
you got no gigs, you got no kids, you got
556
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:19.839
no nothing, and you open your eyes in the morning,
557
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:22.279
how do you make space for yourself? How do you
558
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:28.319
fill that day? Oh, there's so many wonderful things on
559
00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:32.309
a day like that. I will probably go outside. I'll
560
00:32:32.329 --> 00:32:34.890
probably work in my garden. I love to get my
561
00:32:34.930 --> 00:32:37.890
hands in dirt. I will take a walk.
562
00:32:38.450 --> 00:32:39.410
Every day I walk.
563
00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:41.970
I love walking. Walking is so important. If you do
564
00:32:42.049 --> 00:32:47.430
nothing else, walk at least 20, 30 minutes a day. That, man,
565
00:32:47.509 --> 00:32:52.799
it would change your life. So I will walk. Hopefully
566
00:32:52.819 --> 00:32:55.019
I'll be with my wife because she always makes my
567
00:32:55.059 --> 00:32:58.960
day that much more fun and my kids too. And
568
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:03.400
just really relax and love and cook. I love to
569
00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:06.299
cook too. So that's probably me making a good dinner
570
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:07.460
You know what?
571
00:33:07.539 --> 00:33:11.079
I love that day. That's a beautiful day. Melissa, you
572
00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:14.579
said when you come to the East Coast to New York,
573
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.059
we're coming. We're coming to your concert. We're coming to
574
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:17.539
my window.
575
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:19.339
Come see the show, yeah.
576
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:21.529
Thank you so much. Love you, honey. All right, good.
577
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.680
Hey guys, thank you so much for listening and for
578
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:32.789
coming on this journey with me. If you like what
579
00:33:32.809 --> 00:33:35.049
you heard, and I hope that you do, please give
580
00:33:35.170 --> 00:33:39.240
Making Space a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts.
581
00:33:39.750 --> 00:33:41.609
And make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on
582
00:33:41.670 --> 00:33:45.930
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making
583
00:33:45.970 --> 00:33:48.490
Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and
584
00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:52.920
Alexa Kasavecchia, along with Amanda Sidman, Abigail Russ, Kate Saunders,
585
00:33:52.940 --> 00:33:57.059
and our production assistant is Megan Cilio. Our associate audio
586
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:02.099
engineer is Juliana Mastrorilli. Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory
587
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:07.809
and Katherine Anderson. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes
588
00:34:07.869 --> 00:34:11.369
is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop-Parsons is our
589
00:34:11.409 --> 00:34:14.630
executive producer. Charisse Williams-Laredo is our senior producer.
590
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:31.679
This is an Arrow.
591
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:39.000
Mmm, and this is the sound of its minty bubbles.
592
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:49.619
Conjuring melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into
593
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:52.969
the moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
594
00:34:54.369 --> 00:34:56.489
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
1
00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:01.459
This is an Aero.
2
00:00:01.480 --> 00:00:04.799
Mmm.
3
00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:11.589
And this is the sound of its minty bubbles. Conjuring
4
00:00:11.669 --> 00:00:19.510
melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
5
00:00:19.550 --> 00:00:22.750
moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
6
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:26.280
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
7
00:00:30.629 --> 00:00:34.310
Irish beef is all about trust, from grass-based diets to
8
00:00:34.350 --> 00:00:37.729
complete traceability. M & S select farmers in Cork rear
9
00:00:37.750 --> 00:00:40.270
their cattle with real respect for the land and the animal.
10
00:00:40.829 --> 00:00:43.770
It's that care, right from the start, that delivers depth
11
00:00:43.810 --> 00:00:44.490
of flavour.
12
00:00:44.289 --> 00:00:44.750
On the plate.
13
00:00:45.350 --> 00:00:48.590
This is Irish beef done properly. This is not just food,
14
00:00:48.939 --> 00:00:49.939
this is M & S food.
15
00:01:01.619 --> 00:01:03.500
If you know me, you know that I love music
16
00:01:03.579 --> 00:01:07.060
and songs like the one right there. I mean, come on.
17
00:01:07.340 --> 00:01:10.459
That voice, those lyrics. I wish you could see me
18
00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:14.549
rocking out right now. But can you feel it? Melissa
19
00:01:14.689 --> 00:01:19.189
Etheridge is one of rock music's great female icons. She
20
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.560
burst onto the American rock scene as a singer-songwriter back
21
00:01:22.659 --> 00:01:27.239
in 1988 with her self-titled debut album and has not
22
00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:31.019
left since. Melissa found her love for music early on,
23
00:01:31.099 --> 00:01:33.719
picking up a guitar at age eight, strumming until her
24
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:38.040
fingers bled. Melissa was writing songs by age 11 when
25
00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:41.640
she found her voice. Known for her raspy vocals and
26
00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:46.239
confessional lyrics, Melissa has remained one of America's favorite female
27
00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:50.480
singer-songwriters for more than three decades. with two Grammys and
28
00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:56.030
15 nominations, an Academy Award, five platinum albums, and much
29
00:01:56.109 --> 00:01:59.769
more over the course of her prolific career. She is
30
00:01:59.950 --> 00:02:04.069
a rock star, a mother, an activist, and a trailblazer,
31
00:02:04.530 --> 00:02:07.640
and she never shies away from speaking her mind. She
32
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:11.000
mirrors the same raw honesty you hear in her music
33
00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.300
in her life, using her songs to share her message.
34
00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:18.080
Early in her recording career, while performing at a celebration
35
00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:21.860
of the inauguration of President Bill Clinton, Melissa came out
36
00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:25.169
to the crowd announcing that she was gay. Her album,
37
00:02:25.330 --> 00:02:28.590
Yes I Am, followed later that year, featuring hits like
38
00:02:29.090 --> 00:02:31.930
I'm the Only One and Come to My Window, that
39
00:02:32.169 --> 00:02:34.789
powerful song that we can't help but rock out to,
40
00:02:35.169 --> 00:02:39.280
which won her a Grammy for Best Female Rock Vocal Performance.
41
00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:48.090
But with the highs came the lows. She endured a
42
00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:52.830
difficult childhood, a public battle with breast cancer in 2004,
43
00:02:52.830 --> 00:02:57.610
and the heartbreaking loss of her son Beckett in 2020.
44
00:02:57.610 --> 00:03:00.710
Through it all, music has been her constant, helping her
45
00:03:00.770 --> 00:03:04.150
find strength to carry on. And Melissa is opening up
46
00:03:04.210 --> 00:03:07.400
about all of it in her latest memoir, Talking to
47
00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:10.659
My Angels. As a longtime fan of her music, I
48
00:03:10.699 --> 00:03:14.020
wanted to meet this Melissa Etheridge, the survivor, the one
49
00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:17.979
behind the lyrics, offstage and out of the spotlight. She's
50
00:03:18.060 --> 00:03:23.110
endured the unimaginable throughout her life, yet she chooses joy
51
00:03:23.349 --> 00:03:26.870
every day. And even after all this time, she is
52
00:03:26.930 --> 00:03:32.379
still evolving onstage and in life. Now, this is someone
53
00:03:33.020 --> 00:03:36.280
I want to learn from. I sat down with Melissa
54
00:03:36.340 --> 00:03:38.819
to talk about the lessons she's learned, the wisdom she
55
00:03:38.860 --> 00:03:41.060
has to share, and at the heart of it all,
56
00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:45.539
she says, everything is love. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to
57
00:03:45.599 --> 00:04:01.389
my podcast, Making Space. First of all, I love sitting
58
00:04:01.430 --> 00:04:05.550
with you. Melissa, I have to tell you something. This book,
59
00:04:05.610 --> 00:04:08.509
Talking to My Angels, which I'm holding in my hand,
60
00:04:09.569 --> 00:04:13.830
is so surprising in so many ways to me. It's
61
00:04:13.889 --> 00:04:16.850
a beautiful book. It's a book that I couldn't put down.
62
00:04:17.750 --> 00:04:22.089
And it's full of epiphanies. Everyone finds their light through something.
63
00:04:22.730 --> 00:04:25.990
Sometimes they have a near-death experience. Sometimes, I don't know,
64
00:04:26.269 --> 00:04:30.350
all kinds of things happen. But for you, what was
65
00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:34.879
the thing that happened that... Turn the lights on inside
66
00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:35.360
your house.
67
00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:36.300
How you begin the book?
68
00:04:37.100 --> 00:04:41.439
Oh, well, actually, really, the first thing that happened was
69
00:04:41.670 --> 00:04:46.750
I had an accidental overdose of cannabis. I ate an
70
00:04:46.790 --> 00:04:50.949
edible and it was too much, which is a common thing. Unfortunately,
71
00:04:51.730 --> 00:04:55.060
I had kind of that epiphany thing that one has
72
00:04:55.220 --> 00:05:00.360
about life. And shortly thereafter, I was diagnosed with breast
73
00:05:00.379 --> 00:05:06.199
cancer in 2004. So those two things together completely changed
74
00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:11.720
my life outlook, my whole what I thought life was.
75
00:05:12.220 --> 00:05:15.199
It's interesting because I feel like there are people who
76
00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:21.110
seek things. They seek answers. They seek enlightenment. There are
77
00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:24.149
people who find those things, and then there are people
78
00:05:24.230 --> 00:05:27.310
who go one step further and apply them. It becomes
79
00:05:27.430 --> 00:05:31.019
part of their life. Okay. The seeking part for you
80
00:05:31.060 --> 00:05:33.600
was something I feel like you've been after your whole life.
81
00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.660
Tell me about that pursuit. I feel like you've been looking. Like,
82
00:05:38.860 --> 00:05:41.839
show me, tell me, somebody. Someone used to say I
83
00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:44.959
wrote a lot of songs about somebody. Somebody bring me
84
00:05:45.019 --> 00:05:46.730
some water. Somebody do this.
85
00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:50.689
And yeah, I think choosing the path of the artist,
86
00:05:50.730 --> 00:05:53.769
of the musician, of the rock star was one of
87
00:05:53.829 --> 00:05:58.300
really searching for Mass acceptance, you know, whether it was
88
00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:00.319
I didn't get enough from my mom or any of
89
00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.579
those excuses in the, you know, in the past we
90
00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:03.139
can have.
91
00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:05.519
This was a good.
92
00:06:05.230 --> 00:06:10.529
30, 40 years of kind of searching for myself through
93
00:06:10.569 --> 00:06:13.009
my art, through what I enjoy.
94
00:06:13.029 --> 00:06:16.269
And then, you know, looking for meaning. Sometimes you don't
95
00:06:16.310 --> 00:06:17.370
know you're lost.
96
00:06:17.110 --> 00:06:20.300
Until you actually look and see that you're on a path,
97
00:06:20.339 --> 00:06:22.279
you know, and then you're like, oh, there's the path.
98
00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.459
Well, I feel like you were seeking love a lot.
99
00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:27.899
You wanted love. You wanted someone to love you. You
100
00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:30.839
wanted someone to tell you you were okay. And you
101
00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:35.230
were the kind of person who just stayed in relationships,
102
00:06:35.310 --> 00:06:39.329
good or bad. It didn't matter. But you wanted them.
103
00:06:39.649 --> 00:06:40.649
You wanted them to love you.
104
00:06:40.670 --> 00:06:41.310
Yeah.
105
00:06:41.670 --> 00:06:44.050
Growing up with kind of a distant mother, I think
106
00:06:44.250 --> 00:06:46.139
that had a real influence on it.
107
00:06:46.149 --> 00:06:49.829
And my older sister was unkind. She had her own issues.
108
00:06:51.009 --> 00:06:54.009
Because she also had a distant mother, she just dealt
109
00:06:54.050 --> 00:06:58.449
with it differently. I had that longing to have sort
110
00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:02.980
of a nurturing, a kind of nurturing. And I would
111
00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:07.339
find this emotional response when I would sing. I would
112
00:07:07.899 --> 00:07:12.689
play these really sad songs and I would feel this, oh, this, oh,
113
00:07:12.769 --> 00:07:16.170
kind of a hug. And so I kept searching for that.
114
00:07:16.670 --> 00:07:20.149
When your initial relationships aren't so good, then the ones
115
00:07:20.189 --> 00:07:22.430
that come after, you're still looking to fix those.
116
00:07:22.490 --> 00:07:25.110
So it's kind of a rough road sometimes.
117
00:07:25.610 --> 00:07:27.750
A lot of people march all the way through life
118
00:07:27.829 --> 00:07:32.470
and go straight to their grave, just carrying it. You know,
119
00:07:32.550 --> 00:07:35.569
that's what we carry. But you didn't do that. You
120
00:07:35.589 --> 00:07:40.410
decided that was not for you. But recognizing that you
121
00:07:40.470 --> 00:07:42.730
are in a relationship where your mom, you know, was
122
00:07:42.769 --> 00:07:46.569
distant and cold, doesn't resolve it. It just makes you
123
00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:49.720
recognize it. So you must have done something. Did you
124
00:07:49.779 --> 00:07:55.839
do something to put down that baggage? Yeah, it's a practice.
125
00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:57.040
I call it a practice.
126
00:07:57.139 --> 00:08:00.889
It's not, it's not like one day I went, this
127
00:08:00.949 --> 00:08:02.410
is it. And I changed.
128
00:08:02.550 --> 00:08:06.410
It's a, wait a minute, this isn't working for me anymore.
129
00:08:06.790 --> 00:08:11.629
This is harmful to me. This is making me unhappy.
130
00:08:11.709 --> 00:08:16.649
And when I had my breast cancer diagnosis 19 years ago,
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I'm 19 years cancer-free now. And so when I had
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that diagnosis, I was like, wait a minute, I think
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these bad feelings, this emptiness, this ache I have inside
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actually becomes illness. It becomes dis-ease. And that is where
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my cancer came from. To me, this was my journey.
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So to me, being happy is the difference between life
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and death. And so really, really starting a path where
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my main concern was finding my joy.
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And that's a practice every day. It's not like.
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A graduation diploma you get or something, and then everything's fine.
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You just practice it every day and it gets easier.
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I want to talk about just how it started because
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to get where you are, you had to go through it.
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And you describe in your book what it was like
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to grow up with a mother who hardly looked your way.
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You were practically tap dancing and spinning plates like, mom,
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over here, I'm over here. But she wasn't having it
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and she wasn't interested in And your sister was, you
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described her as unkind. And that's a real, that's a
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lot for a little kid to carry around.
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You know, children have all kinds of, you know, situations
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growing up. And I'm sure there's some that were worse
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than mine. Mine was just, my mother was depressed. My
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mother had a hard time. She was, ended up really
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supporting the family. My father was a teacher and Gosh,
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teachers just don't make enough money in this world. So
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she had a lot of issues herself. And it takes
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someone growing up. and actually realizing that their parents were humans.
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You not only forgive, but you let it go. You just,
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you know, there's no need to hold on to that stuff.
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Were you scared of carrying on patterns? Because a lot
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of stuff's so ingrained in us, we may try to
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do the exact opposite of our parents. But there are
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so many patterns that, you know, I mean, I look
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inside myself and when I see a part of me,
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I'm like, oh my God, that's my dad. Oh, that's
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my mom. But did you sort those out? Because you've got,
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you know, your children to make sure that that wasn't
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going to be part of the way you raised them.
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The good news is I had a really great father.
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My father was just a blast. He was, he grew
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up like in the dust bowl. He grew up, you know,
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a migrant farmer. He grew up in poverty. So everything
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that he got, he was very grateful for. Someone helped
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him get a scholarship to college, a sports scholarship. So
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he was able to get his life together and become
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a teacher. And so he had such gratitude about every
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little thing in life. And gratitude is just great medicine.
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If you can just do appreciation every day, you will
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be better. You will find so much joy. So he
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really helped me do that. So I had that to
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kind of model after I said, I'm just going to
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be like my dad, you know, and that's how I parent.
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You know, some people think my kids don't have a dad,
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but my father parented me. So I think I parent
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like a father, you know, and so it really worked
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out in my life, walking a path of how my
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father loved me and just loved kids, just love them.
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You know what?
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I was asking a lady on our show, I said,
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how did you parent your adult children? Because they're She
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had beautiful kids who were in the studio. They just
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happened to be on the plaza and we brought them inside.
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And she goes, oh, it's easy. She said, it's four words.
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And I said, oh, what is it? And she said,
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listen and love, love, love.
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Yeah.
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She said, that's it.
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You have nothing else you have to do. And then
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get out of the way, basically.
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Yeah.
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Some people think you have to show them right from wrong.
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They come in. They know.
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Human beings, when they're born, they know so much. And
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they are They evidently already know, you know, iPhones and
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computers when they're born, obviously. So, you know, they, they
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come in with this and, and just letting them be
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who they are and letting, letting them find their.
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Their way.
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That's the, this is, this is a, a journey, a
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story and letting them build their own is.
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Is I think what, what you need to do. You
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talk about so many cool things.
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Like you say, sometimes it's easy to lose the parts
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of you in your life when you're a a celebrity, basically,
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because you're just in this different world, and it's hard
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to pinpoint. And I was thinking about how life is
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full of exclamation points. You got the Grammy. You're getting married.
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It's a boy. Yay, yay. And then it also has
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the lows, getting divorced, a loss, et cetera. But most
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of the days of our lives are just Wednesdays. They're
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not those days. They're regular days. And I was just wondering...
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How are your Wednesdays? My Wednesdays are fantastic.
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I have been practicing finding my joy every day for
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20 years now.
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And I've gotten pretty good at it.
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And I love my Wednesdays. I love my every days.
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And when my down days come, I know, hey, it's
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not going to be like this forever. So, you know,
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let me now I know what I want because I
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know what I don't want. And then when my crazy
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updates come, I'm like, yeah, this is great. I know
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it's not going to be like this forever. But, you know,
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it's and you just ride this beautiful wave and it's
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it's delicious.
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I love it.
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Coming up, Melissa opens up about the loss of her
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son Beckett and her journey to heal. Stay with us.
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This is an Aero.
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Mmm.
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And this is the sound of its minty bubbles. Conjuring
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melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
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Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
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Remember wobbling along on your first bike or grinding gears
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during driving lessons? Practice makes perfect. Well, selling property is
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On the Connolly family farm in Monaghan, every egg tells
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a story. Free-range hens, high welfare standards, and a family
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that manages every step themselves. It's simple food done with integrity.
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Rich yolks, honest flavour, and proudly Irish. This is not
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just food, this is M & S food.
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M & S I love how you say at the
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end of it all is love. At the end of
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the greatest despair is love. At the end of the
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highest high is love. As the storm passes, that's it.
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It's just there. And I think that's such a beautiful sentiment.
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How did you come to that understanding given the loss
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you've been through? Well, I have a deep belief that
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we're all here in this reality or life or whatever
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we want.
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To call it to create. And, and I also believe that,
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that it's, it's one thing. It's one, it's like a
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yin and a yang, and you've got the light and
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the dark and the positive and the negative and the
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good and the bad, yet it's all one thing.
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And that one thing is love.
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And when you can look at the bad and say, okay,
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this is the contrast to the white. I wouldn't know the, the, the,
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you know, the, the, I'm thinking of the white and
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the black and the yin and yang, but it's, you know,
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the light and dark. If I wouldn't know the light,
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if I didn't know the dark. And so, yes, this
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hurts today and it might hurt for a while, but
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this is what makes my life rich.
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And, and this is also love.
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And this teaches me, teaches me how much when I
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lost my son, I learned how much my capacity for
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love was, you know, that not only loving him and
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missing him and being okay, but loving myself enough not
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to go into major depression and guilt and shame, which
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so many families that lose loved ones to opioid addiction,
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just the shame is too big.
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It's huge.
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So I had to believe that there's an over-surrounding love
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to everything.
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Everything is love.
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To come to that epiphany, and as you said, you
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lost Beckett during the pandemic. So many people were going
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through loss and isolation, kind of, and there wasn't a
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community to help and to hug and to care for
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everybody who needed it like you. But to come to
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that place of letting go of guilt and shame, how
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long did that take? What was it like in those
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initial days and when did you get there?
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Well, again, it's a practice.
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There can be days where the shadow comes on me
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and I find myself thinking, oh, what if I had
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done this? What if I had only done that? And
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that doesn't serve me and it causes me pain. So
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My practice is to go, no, he has gone from
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this physical world and he's in non-physical. And we only
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perceive 4% of the energy that actually is. So he
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is part of that larger non-physical space. And that space
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doesn't have the contrast, doesn't have the resistance that we
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have here, that we are choosing that causes growth. The
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non-physical is... is that heaven, is that joyous space. And
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for me to feel him there, I need to be
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in that joyous space. So when I'm in a dark space,
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I'm away from all.
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Of my loved ones.
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So it's my job to find my space again of
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loving myself, going, no, no, no, I did the best
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I could. And he made his choices. And There are
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some that check out. There are some that leave earlier
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than others. And he could not handle his life at
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this time.
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Yeah.
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When do you feel him the most, Melissa?
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In the mornings.
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You know, when you're first waking up, that's when, that's when,
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you know, the, the times I used to always text
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with him and talk with him.
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And, and so it's, it's like, he's there. I'm like, okay,
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good morning.
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You know, I was being watch out for me all
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day or, you know, whatever I'm, you know, him and
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my father too. I lost my father very, I lost
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my father when I was 30. So, you know, I'd
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already been kind of, you know, pulling on his energy
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and asking that.
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And so, you know, I really feel surrounded. That's why
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I call it Talking to My Angels.
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That's why the book is titled that, because that energy,
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those lives, those souls that I have known that have
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been a part of my heart are still supporting me.
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You talk about just how spiritual you are and you
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always have been. And you said church was part of
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your life when you were younger. How does your spirituality,
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I mean, you've obviously grown through so much, but how
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has it changed or evolved over time?
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Where are you today, I guess?
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Yeah.
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No, I loved church when I was a kid. We
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went to the Methodist church and I loved the music
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and I loved the fellowship. I loved all the people.
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And then I had friends in school that started taking
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me to like church camps and I played the guitar. So,
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you know, it's the seventies and I'm, I'm playing the
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guitar and sing and pass it on. And, you know,
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it's that, that was the thing you did. And it
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was cool to be the, the person who played guitar.
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And so I, I, I really loved that. And I
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went to Baptist church camp. And so, and I enjoyed
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sort of the, um, I enjoyed the stories and I, the,
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the very center of all the religions, all our great, uh,
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religions of the world the center is love one another
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like you would love yourself so if it's that sort
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of if you you want to love someone like you
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love yourself so you got to love yourself and if
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you want them to love you you know so it's
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it's a lot about you know giving yourself that love
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and and know that you know we're all one it's
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it's you know that's in christianity too and i did
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a lot of um work with a youth group in
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high school. We did Godspell, you know, and I found
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that even when I discovered I was gay, I went
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to a chaplain and talked to him. And he even said,
373
00:22:12.930 --> 00:22:14.970
bless his heart, he said, look, there might be people
374
00:22:14.990 --> 00:22:17.970
here that would say it's wrong, but I cannot believe
375
00:22:17.990 --> 00:22:21.210
that God would make a love that is wrong. And
376
00:22:21.829 --> 00:22:25.950
that just set my path for me right there at
377
00:22:26.049 --> 00:22:28.380
the age of 19. I was like, oh, right on.
378
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:30.970
And so I never felt like I needed to push
379
00:22:31.049 --> 00:22:35.130
against religion. I did not find an organized religion after
380
00:22:35.170 --> 00:22:38.490
that that I related to, but I always had a
381
00:22:38.529 --> 00:22:44.859
spirituality of there is something else other than this, you know,
382
00:22:45.460 --> 00:22:45.759
see it.
383
00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:49.220
Hear it, smell it, taste it, touch reality that we have.
384
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.819
There's something else, and it's part of me, and it's
385
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.829
part of all of us, you know, and I just
386
00:22:55.890 --> 00:22:56.730
walk with that.
387
00:22:57.369 --> 00:22:58.250
Spirituality.
388
00:22:58.750 --> 00:23:02.470
You said love yourself, and that is a thing that's
389
00:23:02.490 --> 00:23:05.970
hard to come by. In reading your book, we talk
390
00:23:05.990 --> 00:23:08.619
about your relationships and how you didn't have that, and
391
00:23:08.660 --> 00:23:13.039
then somehow you did. Was it a moment? What moment
392
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.619
was it where you decided, wow, this is what I
393
00:23:16.660 --> 00:23:17.519
needed all along?
394
00:23:17.539 --> 00:23:22.029
It's a bunch of little moments. Again, it's a practice.
395
00:23:22.190 --> 00:23:26.680
It took me to understand to kind of, you know,
396
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:29.619
we talked about organized religion, to kind of get rid
397
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:34.509
of the idea that there was a judgmental force, you know,
398
00:23:34.549 --> 00:23:37.750
whether it's a judgmental God or whatever, that there's a
399
00:23:37.829 --> 00:23:43.049
judgmental force out there looking at me saying, you know,
400
00:23:43.309 --> 00:23:43.769
you're not.
401
00:23:43.690 --> 00:23:45.769
Doing this right, you're doing this wrong.
402
00:23:45.789 --> 00:23:52.609
And when you have that, it's very hard to love
403
00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:57.769
yourself when you're looking to please something out there. For me,
404
00:23:57.809 --> 00:24:01.470
it started to become fame. I had to please the press,
405
00:24:01.650 --> 00:24:05.890
the media, the people, the whatever is in the moment.
406
00:24:06.029 --> 00:24:09.329
I had to please them for me to be okay.
407
00:24:09.890 --> 00:24:12.970
And that was tearing me apart. And it tears apart.
408
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:17.720
I see it tear apart celebrities all the time. And
409
00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:22.200
when you give that power away, that's a great unhappiness.
410
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.339
And so right after cancer, I made a choice. I said,
411
00:24:27.500 --> 00:24:30.420
what other people think about me is none of my business.
412
00:24:30.819 --> 00:24:34.680
I've got to think that I'm okay. I got to
413
00:24:34.819 --> 00:24:38.240
love the music that I make. I got to love
414
00:24:38.259 --> 00:24:41.720
the people that are around. I got to love the
415
00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:46.490
choices I'm making or else no, you know, the answer
416
00:24:46.529 --> 00:24:49.670
is no. And the more I walk that every day,
417
00:24:50.500 --> 00:24:53.180
the more it helped me in my relationships because I,
418
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:57.680
I would, it would not be, I wasn't against, you know,
419
00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:00.279
my partner. I was just like, no, I need this
420
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:04.819
for me. And that split up my second marriage. So, so,
421
00:25:04.859 --> 00:25:08.740
you know, it was just, I changed and, and that's
422
00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:09.220
what happens.
423
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:10.319
Yeah, it does.
424
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:13.029
I mean, yeah, you change and evolve. And it's interesting about,
425
00:25:13.049 --> 00:25:16.289
I was just thinking, I went through breast cancer and
426
00:25:16.309 --> 00:25:19.650
I remembered coming out of it all, And I'm a
427
00:25:19.690 --> 00:25:21.809
pleaser too. I'm like, do they like me? Am I
428
00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:25.089
doing it right? Is everyone okay with me? And I
429
00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:28.250
remembered having this weird epiphany. I woke up, I was
430
00:25:28.269 --> 00:25:30.670
just laying in my apartment. I was by myself and
431
00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:34.059
I looked around and I got four words. I got,
432
00:25:34.299 --> 00:25:37.240
you can't scare me. And all of a sudden I
433
00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:40.240
was like, this is so weird. It's kind of out
434
00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:43.259
of body. And I remember I was working at Dateline.
435
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.390
I marched into my big boss's office. I went to
436
00:25:46.410 --> 00:25:49.410
the 52nd floor like a crazy person. I go, let
437
00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:51.089
me tell you something. There's a new hour of today.
438
00:25:51.130 --> 00:25:53.670
It's for me. I'll tell you why. I'm not afraid.
439
00:25:53.730 --> 00:25:55.480
I went through this whole speech, and he was kind
440
00:25:55.500 --> 00:26:00.460
of like, who the hell let her in here? But afterwards,
441
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.740
I ended up getting that gig, and I remembered thinking...
442
00:26:03.890 --> 00:26:07.250
the scariest, just like the epiphanies that you got from
443
00:26:07.329 --> 00:26:09.869
cancer and how it changed you and how you weren't
444
00:26:09.910 --> 00:26:12.609
pleasing anymore. You were pleasing yourself. You were like, I
445
00:26:12.630 --> 00:26:16.230
got to do this for me. So big monumental changes.
446
00:26:16.609 --> 00:26:20.390
You had cancer, the loss of your son. Do you
447
00:26:20.410 --> 00:26:24.180
think those were probably the big tectonic plate shifts in
448
00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:24.680
your life?
449
00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:29.500
Yeah, I hope that's all. I mean, life does this.
450
00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:31.400
And yes, they were.
451
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:33.700
They were huge.
452
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.259
The cancer, because just because it was so long ago,
453
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:42.099
I was able to really see that what I thought
454
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:46.470
and what I did affected me physically. And so that, that,
455
00:26:46.490 --> 00:26:48.509
you know, I changed the way I ate. I changed
456
00:26:48.910 --> 00:26:52.769
the way I thought, changed my exercise, my, you know,
457
00:26:52.789 --> 00:26:58.519
the joy of life, all of that. Beckett, Beckett really
458
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:03.589
taught me I can't afford any guilt or shame in
459
00:27:03.609 --> 00:27:06.789
my life or it or it will it will destroy me.
460
00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:09.410
And that and then I'm no good for my other
461
00:27:09.450 --> 00:27:12.170
three children. How you know, how does that work? That's
462
00:27:12.230 --> 00:27:12.650
not right.
463
00:27:12.730 --> 00:27:17.660
So, yeah. So I keep those those. Yes, we're definitely
464
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.380
the two big changes in my life.
465
00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:24.559
Up next, the role music has played in Melissa's life
466
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.759
and what it's like being on tour these days. That's
467
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:28.279
after the break.
468
00:27:33.380 --> 00:27:34.660
This is an Aero.
469
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.980
Mmm.
470
00:27:38.779 --> 00:27:44.789
And this is the sound of its minty bubbles. Conjuring
471
00:27:44.869 --> 00:27:52.710
melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
472
00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:55.930
moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
473
00:27:57.029 --> 00:27:59.450
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
474
00:28:04.369 --> 00:28:07.289
On the Connolly family farm in Monaghan, every egg tells
475
00:28:07.349 --> 00:28:11.779
a story. Free-range hens, high welfare standards, and a family
476
00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:16.380
that manages every step themselves. It's simple food done with integrity.
477
00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:20.519
Rich yolks, honest flavour, and proudly Irish. This is not
478
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:22.319
just food, this is M & S food.
479
00:28:23.769 --> 00:28:27.049
Remember wobbling on your first bike? Practice made perfect and
480
00:28:27.130 --> 00:28:30.720
selling properties the same. Sherry Fitzgerald streamlines every sale thanks
481
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.359
to over 40 years experience, over 100 offices nationwide and
482
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:38.539
cutting edge technology. Sherry Fitzgerald. Trusted selling starts here.
483
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:49.240
The music is throughout this book, which I love. I
484
00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:52.109
love the lyrics. I love how you play everything in beautifully.
485
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:55.970
And music has been your, that's been the, there's a
486
00:28:56.009 --> 00:28:59.690
constant that goes the thread through everyone's life and that's yours.
487
00:29:00.950 --> 00:29:02.809
Did music save you? What saved you?
488
00:29:04.009 --> 00:29:06.309
You could say, I mean, I had music.
489
00:29:06.390 --> 00:29:09.670
I always, when I felt something emotionally, I would go
490
00:29:09.730 --> 00:29:11.549
to my room and I would pick up my guitar
491
00:29:11.589 --> 00:29:14.109
and I would play and I would be able to
492
00:29:14.609 --> 00:29:18.039
work through it. So yeah, you could say music saved me.
493
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:20.980
I don't know how to do anything else. So it's
494
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.339
a good thing that This is how I make my living,
495
00:29:23.859 --> 00:29:27.759
you know, and I'm grateful people actually enjoy my music.
496
00:29:27.819 --> 00:29:28.980
So it works.
497
00:29:29.529 --> 00:29:31.769
How does it feel now? Like you're on tour now.
498
00:29:32.289 --> 00:29:35.170
I mean, look, we all know all the songs. What
499
00:29:35.230 --> 00:29:37.970
is it like being on tour today? Is there a
500
00:29:38.089 --> 00:29:41.470
difference in how you... like when you're not pleasing anymore,
501
00:29:41.609 --> 00:29:45.079
you're just loving it. You're just doing your thing. How
502
00:29:45.259 --> 00:29:47.220
has your performing kind of changed?
503
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:48.319
Yeah.
504
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.619
19 years ago, I decided that I wanted to be
505
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:54.240
the rock star I wanted to be, not what I, again,
506
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:57.529
thought somebody else wanted me to be. And when I
507
00:29:57.569 --> 00:30:00.930
did that, I started playing the guitar better. If you
508
00:30:00.970 --> 00:30:03.220
come see me in concert, you will be surprised at
509
00:30:03.259 --> 00:30:04.380
how well I play the guitar.
510
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.480
You won't know that. And that's one of.
511
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:09.759
My favorites, especially when I see the husbands or the
512
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:13.259
boyfriends that have been dragged along to the show, you know,
513
00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:14.220
and they look at.
514
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:17.309
Me and they're like, hey, she's good.
515
00:30:17.549 --> 00:30:18.849
You know, this is all right.
516
00:30:18.869 --> 00:30:20.490
And by the end, they're rocking.
517
00:30:21.049 --> 00:30:24.970
But, you know, so the more fun I have, the
518
00:30:25.009 --> 00:30:28.230
more fun the audience has. So that is just what
519
00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:30.990
it's all about. My musicians, when the four of us
520
00:30:31.049 --> 00:30:36.150
are clicking and it's rocking, you can't beat that.
521
00:30:36.210 --> 00:30:37.029
That's what it's all about.
522
00:30:37.690 --> 00:30:40.200
One of my dear friends is Maria Shriver. I love her.
523
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:42.259
You guys are very similar in a lot of ways
524
00:30:42.339 --> 00:30:44.779
in terms of how you see the world. But she
525
00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:48.740
always says, envision your life as you would at, how
526
00:30:48.769 --> 00:30:50.720
would you like to see yourself, she says to me,
527
00:30:50.769 --> 00:30:54.390
at 60, at 70, at 80. How do you see yourself,
528
00:30:54.490 --> 00:30:56.690
if you were to close your eyes and transport yourself
529
00:30:56.690 --> 00:31:01.769
10 years ahead, how do you see yourself at 70.
530
00:31:01.769 --> 00:31:02.470
At 80?
531
00:31:02.470 --> 00:31:05.789
At 70 and 80, I believe I will have practiced
532
00:31:06.170 --> 00:31:15.339
this way of life every day, and I see myself
533
00:31:15.700 --> 00:31:20.140
filled with love. surrounded by loved ones doing what I love.
534
00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:21.019
Oh, my God.
535
00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:24.000
Is that what it's all about?
536
00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:24.759
Yes.
537
00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:25.380
That's so good.
538
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:25.910
I win.
539
00:31:26.259 --> 00:31:27.319
You do win.
540
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:28.440
You do win.
541
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:33.140
Oh, my God. Hey, who are you listening to these days? Oh, God.
542
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.440
Every time anyone asks me that, all of my acting
543
00:31:36.460 --> 00:31:40.470
goes right out of my head. Right out of my head.
544
00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:44.150
I love the band Greta Van Fleet. If you've never
545
00:31:44.170 --> 00:31:47.819
heard them, They sound like Led Zeppelin and they're amazing.
546
00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:51.359
The lead singer has a voice that will absolutely slay you.
547
00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:57.500
I love the Italian rock group, Maneskin, I think is
548
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.059
how it's, Maneskin.
549
00:31:59.319 --> 00:31:59.599
I know.
550
00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:02.460
Yeah, no, well, I have two 16-year-olds. I listen to
551
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:05.519
all kinds of music, you know, so it's cool. The
552
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.289
title of this podcast, Melissa, is Making Space. It's about
553
00:32:08.329 --> 00:32:10.990
when you hit pause on your life and say, I'm
554
00:32:11.029 --> 00:32:14.339
making space for myself. When you have a blank slate day,
555
00:32:14.710 --> 00:32:16.759
you got no gigs, you got no kids, you got
556
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:19.839
no nothing, and you open your eyes in the morning,
557
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:22.279
how do you make space for yourself? How do you
558
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:28.319
fill that day? Oh, there's so many wonderful things on
559
00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:32.309
a day like that. I will probably go outside. I'll
560
00:32:32.329 --> 00:32:34.890
probably work in my garden. I love to get my
561
00:32:34.930 --> 00:32:37.890
hands in dirt. I will take a walk.
562
00:32:38.450 --> 00:32:39.410
Every day I walk.
563
00:32:39.470 --> 00:32:41.970
I love walking. Walking is so important. If you do
564
00:32:42.049 --> 00:32:47.430
nothing else, walk at least 20, 30 minutes a day. That, man,
565
00:32:47.509 --> 00:32:52.799
it would change your life. So I will walk. Hopefully
566
00:32:52.819 --> 00:32:55.019
I'll be with my wife because she always makes my
567
00:32:55.059 --> 00:32:58.960
day that much more fun and my kids too. And
568
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:03.400
just really relax and love and cook. I love to
569
00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:06.299
cook too. So that's probably me making a good dinner
570
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:07.460
You know what?
571
00:33:07.539 --> 00:33:11.079
I love that day. That's a beautiful day. Melissa, you
572
00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:14.579
said when you come to the East Coast to New York,
573
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.059
we're coming. We're coming to your concert. We're coming to
574
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:17.539
my window.
575
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:19.339
Come see the show, yeah.
576
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:21.529
Thank you so much. Love you, honey. All right, good.
577
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.680
Hey guys, thank you so much for listening and for
578
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:32.789
coming on this journey with me. If you like what
579
00:33:32.809 --> 00:33:35.049
you heard, and I hope that you do, please give
580
00:33:35.170 --> 00:33:39.240
Making Space a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts.
581
00:33:39.750 --> 00:33:41.609
And make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on
582
00:33:41.670 --> 00:33:45.930
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making
583
00:33:45.970 --> 00:33:48.490
Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and
584
00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:52.920
Alexa Kasavecchia, along with Amanda Sidman, Abigail Russ, Kate Saunders,
585
00:33:52.940 --> 00:33:57.059
and our production assistant is Megan Cilio. Our associate audio
586
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:02.099
engineer is Juliana Mastrorilli. Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory
587
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:07.809
and Katherine Anderson. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes
588
00:34:07.869 --> 00:34:11.369
is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop-Parsons is our
589
00:34:11.409 --> 00:34:14.630
executive producer. Charisse Williams-Laredo is our senior producer.
590
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:31.679
This is an Arrow.
591
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:39.000
Mmm, and this is the sound of its minty bubbles.
592
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:49.619
Conjuring melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into
593
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:52.969
the moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
594
00:34:54.369 --> 00:34:56.489
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
