Lost Hunter: Ronald Gray's disappearance in Idaho's Bitterroot Wilderness

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JOE ERATO: Thousands of people
have mysteriously vanished in
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America's wilderness. Join us as
we dive into the deep end of the
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unexplainable and try to piece
together what happened. You are
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listening to Locations Unknown.
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What's up everybody and welcome
back to another episode of
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Locations Unknown. I'm your
co-host Joe E. Rodlin. With me
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as always is the guy who coined
the term, coined the term, so he
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coined the term, Mike
Vandebogart.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Thank you,
Joe. And thank you once again to
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all of our loyal listeners for
tuning in. Just a couple of
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announcements before we get
going here. New Patreon shout
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outs to Jamie Drexler, Amelia
Haverkamp, and Carrie Tetch. I
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think I got that.
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Sure sure we don't know but
thank you for supporting the
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show yes thank you very much we
greatly appreciate it if you
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want to call the show or send
the show a text i've been
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texting back and forth with i
still gotta share all this with
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you after the show i'll share i
have like 100 pictures now of a
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individual who claims to be the
son of glenn hyde oh we should
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maybe bring that we will bring
that to the live stream Yeah,
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maybe.
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JOE ERATO: We can talk through
the whole thing.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I don't know
that I have permission to share
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any of it yet.
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JOE ERATO: Well, we'll figure it
out.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, we'll
figure it out. But very
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interesting. The more and more
pictures I see, the more I'm
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convinced he's telling the
truth.
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JOE ERATO: He's brought
receipts.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah.
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JOE ERATO: I guess.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I guess.
Partial receipts so far. I
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wouldn't mind seeing some
official documents or something.
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JOE ERATO: Right on.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I don't
think I said the number. You can
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call 208-391-6913 or text the
show. 208.
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JOE ERATO: 391-6913 call it
leave a message text us because
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when we do our live stream we're
going to go through all of them
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funny stuff serious stuff
whatever there's these girls who
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always call and sing us songs
which isn't really hilarious and
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we'll open it up live on the
show too so that could be
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dangerous we tested that it
works oh man it could be our
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downfall and we got to get a
hold of Evan write that on the
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table I got the sharpie here
Call Evan.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: All right.
If you want to check out any of
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the other podcasts on our
network, we've got Peanut and
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Butter Mountain Podcast, Off the
Trails, The Weirdos We Know, Who
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00:03:03,422 --> 00:03:07,125
Runs This Park, and Crime Off
the Grid. If you want to support
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00:03:07,126 --> 00:03:10,250
the show, you can support us on
Patreon, YouTube memberships,
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premium subscriptions on Apple
and Spreaker, and X maybe
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someday. And what else?
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JOE ERATO: I have the update and
markowski one of our fans let us
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know that i've been using this
the word swag incorrectly since
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we started saying it apparently
when do you say it i don't even
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at the end but i'm like if you
want to get some sweet sweet
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swag but swag is apparently an
acronym for stuff we all get
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free stuff yeah apparently it's
supposed to mean like just
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everyone gets it Like that's why
you get a swag bag.
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So this is how slow I am.
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I just use terms sometimes i'm
like oh everyone calls it swag
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okay and then i don't ever care
to look into the etymology of
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the word when you join our
Patreon channel you do get a
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free bumper sticker so that
that's swag yeah so yeah but but
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that's why i guess i gotta
change i just gotta change to
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merch there's merchandise yeah
so i i got i got learned today
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all right you got about that yep
all right everybody let's gear
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up and get out to explore
locations unknown September 23rd
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2008 A Marine Corps veteran and
retired Massachusetts State
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Police Captain was on an elk
hunt with friends in the Selway
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Bitterroot area of the Nez Perce
National Forest.
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He decided to stay a few extra
days alone after his friends
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left. The plan was to meet back
with his friends a few days
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later. However, when he never
arrived, authorities were
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notified and the search began.
Join us this week. As we
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investigate the curious case of
Ronald Scott Gray.
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The End all right so we are
going to the Nez pierce
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Clearwater National Forest hurt
i believe it's called purse as
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purse and his official missing
date was the 19th at the 23rd it
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is okay i'm sorry that's okay
we'll re-record it no we won't
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the cellway bitterroot
wilderness is a 1.3 million acre
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area in north central Idaho and
western Montana including the
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bitterroot mountain range so
this does take place in the
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north central Idaho and western
Montana region.
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It was established in 1908 and
sees roughly 550,000 visitors
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per year. So it's not heavily
trafficked.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: No.
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JOE ERATO: Compared to its
counterparts in the area. Some
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habitation history of the area.
Archaeological evidence
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indicates that indigenous
peoples have occupied this
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region for over 8,000 years.
Notably, sites inside the Weiss
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Rock Shelter, located
approximately 13 kilometers
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south of Cottonwood, Idaho.
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Which has yielded artifacts
dating back to this period.
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Another significant site is the
Suli, situated about 40
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kilometers east of Lewiston,
Idaho. Additionally, a Buffalo
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Eddy site approximately 30
kilometers south of Lewiston
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features petroglyphs estimated
to be from around 2500 BC.
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The Nez Perce people, or Nimipu,
have been the primary
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inhabitants of the area with the
traditional territory
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encompassing parts of
present-day Idaho, Oregon, and
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Washington. Their lands include
the river valleys of the Snake,
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Salmon, and Clearwater Rivers,
extending eastward to the
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Bitterroot Mountains.
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By the early 19th century, the
Nez Perce had established over
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100 permanent settlements with
populations ranging from 50 to
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600 individuals per village.
They engaged in fishing,
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hunting, and gathering, and were
known for their expertise in
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horse breeding, particularly the
Appaloosa breed.
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The mid-19th century brought
increased tensions as white
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settlers encroached on Nez Perce
lands, especially following the
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discovery of gold in the region.
In 1855, the Nez Perce signed a
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treaty ceding approximately 7.5
million acres of their territory
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in exchange for monetary
compensation and infrastructure
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development. However, the U. S.
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Government failed to honor the
treaty's terms leading to the
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further reduction of the Nez
Perce lands in 1863. These
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actions contributed to the Nez
Perce War of 1877, during which
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several bands, including Chief
Joseph's, were driven from their
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homeland. In the early 20th
century, the U. S.
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Government designated large
portions of this region as
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national forests to manage and
conserve the area's natural
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resources. The Nez Perce
National Forest and Clearwater
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National Forest were both
established on July 1, 1908. In
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2012.
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These two forests were
administratively combined to
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form the Nez Perce Clearwater
National Forest, encompassing
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much of the traditional Nez
Perce Territory. So here are
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some interesting facts about
Idaho. Did you know that Idaho
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has a seaport? The Port Of
Lewiston is the farthest inland
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port on the west coast of the U.
S. It is 465 miles upriver from
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the Pacific Ocean.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Did not know
that.
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JOE ERATO: Did not know that
either. In 1928, Idaho was the
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first State to feature... A
graphic on a license plate. It
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was the Idaho potato. First
license plate graphic was a
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potato. That's awesome. Idaho is
called the gem State because
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almost every gem has been found
in Idaho at one point. I don't
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understand that one. Like every
gem ever?
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Like every
type of gem.
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JOE ERATO: Oh, every type of
gem. That makes a lot more
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sense. Nearly 85% of all
commercial trout sold in the U.
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S. Is produced in the Hagerman
Valley. That's really cool.
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That's a lot of trout.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: It is.
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JOE ERATO: 63% of Idaho is
public land.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Sorry about
that.
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JOE ERATO: Too many kids. Your
immune system will catch up in
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about five years.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Someday.
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JOE ERATO: The deepest river
gorge in North America is
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Idaho's Hell's Canyon at 7,900
feet deep.
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I think we
covered a case, Hell's Canyon.
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JOE ERATO: Yes, we did. Oh, we
got window shares. What's going
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on here? Oh, you missed it. Oh,
they're running away?
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MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: We got
mooned.
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JOE ERATO: Like legitimately?
Not legit. Oh, okay. That would
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have been way more upset if we
legitimately got mooned in the
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window. I'll talk a little bit
about the climate. The climate
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in this part of Idaho's high
country is continental and
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strongly influenced by
elevation. By late September and
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October, autumn has set in with
rapidly cooling temperatures.
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In the lower elevations near
wilderness, September days
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average around 65 to 75 degrees
Fahrenheit or 18 to 21 degrees
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Celsius, with nights dipping to
the low 40s or 4 to 5 degrees
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Celsius. We were asked by an
Australian listener if we could
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throw back in kilometers and
things. So we're starting to
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have all those listeners
Overseas. Yep. By October,
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average highs drop.
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Two lows and 50s 11 degrees
celsius and nighttime lows hover
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around 30 32 so about freezing
or zero degrees celsius higher
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elevations experience even
colder conditions ridges above 6
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000 feet often see frost at
night even in early September
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and daytime temperature is much
cooler than the valleys early
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falls relatively dry in the
region region but moisture
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begins to increase going into
October.
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On average, September brings
about 1.1 inches or 28
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millimeters. Of total
precipitation in the Elk City
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area, whereas October doubles
that to around 2.3 inches or 58
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millimeters. Much of September's
weather is clear and crisp, but
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by late September, the first
Pacific storm system can reach
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Idaho, bringing chilly rain at
lower elevations and snow at
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higher elevations.
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Snowfall becomes a concern by
the end of September and
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throughout October. It is also
not uncommon for higher terrain
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in the Selway Bitterroot to
receive an early dusting of snow
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in late September, with more
significant snow possible in
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October. In fact, during the
search for Gray in early fall
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2008, authorities noted that
snow could hit the Nez Perce
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National Forest today.
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Perhaps one of the most critical
factors is how quickly weather
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can change in the area. The
Selway Bitterroot is known for
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mountain microclimates. A sunny
60-degree afternoon can give way
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to a cold, wet evening and
temperatures plunging towards
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freezing in front. As a front
moves in.
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Conditions in deep canyons, they
can trap warm air. It might
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differ markedly from the exposed
peaks, which can be buffeted by
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cold winds and gather storm
clouds. Sudden thunderstorms or
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cold rain squalls are possible
in early fall and later in the
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season, even in mid-morning, can
turn into a snowstorm by night.
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So it sounds like it's just
crazy rapidly changing weather
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out there.
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Search and rescue accounts
emphasize that fall weather in
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Idaho backcountry is
unpredictable, noting instances
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of mild days that turn to snow
overnight. So a little bit about
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the terrain. The region is
characterized by rough, jagged
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peaks and deep forested canyons,
a glaciated terrain of rigid and
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towering mountains dropping into
steep valley corridors.
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So it sounds super aggressive,
which means it's probably
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beautiful. Elevation ranges from
around 1,700 feet in the lowest
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river valleys to over 10,000
feet at the highest summits.
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Trapper Peak on the Montana side
reaches 10,157 feet.
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So major waterways originated
here. Both the Lokshua River and
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the Selway River begin in these
mountains and flow westward to
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meet Lowell, Idaho. The wild and
scenic Selway River cuts a
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47-mile course through the heart
of...
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The wilderness its canyon so
remote that access is limited to
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a single permitted raft launch
per day that's crazy yeah dense
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coniferous forest blanket the
slopes interspersed with alpine
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meadow and granite outcrops
making for a landscape that is
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beautiful as it is challenging
to traverse so some of the
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dangers you're going to see out
here are elk black bear mountain
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00:13:47,728 --> 00:13:50,478
lions Gray wolves which were
reintroduced in the 90s.
223
00:13:51,601 --> 00:13:54,886
Grizzly bears once inhabited the
region but have been gone for
224
00:13:54,906 --> 00:13:58,835
many decades. However, this area
has been identified as a prime
225
00:13:58,894 --> 00:14:02,898
habitat for the reintroduction
of grizzly bears in the future.
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00:14:04,948 --> 00:14:08,249
While the area where Gray went
missing is characterized by very
227
00:14:08,349 --> 00:14:10,649
rugged and mountainous terrain,
researchers described it as
228
00:14:10,868 --> 00:14:14,372
vertical rocks and trees like
nothing I've ever seen. It
229
00:14:14,450 --> 00:14:17,310
overwhelms you, referring to the
difficulty of traversing the
230
00:14:17,333 --> 00:14:20,864
wilderness. So that sounds
pretty ridiculous for search and
231
00:14:20,865 --> 00:14:22,927
rescue to say, like, ah, this is
the worst.
232
00:14:23,005 --> 00:14:24,114
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: This is the
worst, yes.
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00:14:25,005 --> 00:14:27,989
JOE ERATO: Weather and exposure
can be issues. So the terrain
234
00:14:28,067 --> 00:14:31,489
hazards alone are bad. And then,
again, nights in October
235
00:14:31,536 --> 00:14:34,036
routinely drop below freezing.
So injured people, sick.
236
00:14:34,156 --> 00:14:37,960
People cannot move and find
shelter and have a high risk for
237
00:14:37,979 --> 00:14:41,003
hypothermia sudden snow or fog
can drastically reduce
238
00:14:41,042 --> 00:14:45,085
visibility and bury tracks
thwarting both navigation and
239
00:14:45,147 --> 00:14:49,608
search efforts so there are no
roads or settlements inside the
240
00:14:49,609 --> 00:14:52,960
wilderness so access is by foot
horseback or occasionally small
241
00:14:53,053 --> 00:14:57,225
aircraft there's a couple of
grass airstrips that exists in
242
00:14:57,272 --> 00:15:00,100
other parts of wilderness, but
none near where Gray was.
243
00:15:00,940 --> 00:15:04,423
The nearest trailheads, or
primitive roads, are many miles
244
00:15:04,445 --> 00:15:07,687
away, and those are accessible
only via long gravel routes from
245
00:15:07,808 --> 00:15:09,687
small towns like Elk City or
Lowell.
246
00:15:12,054 --> 00:15:14,351
So the Selway Bitterroot
Wilderness is notorious for its
247
00:15:14,437 --> 00:15:17,421
faint and rugged trails. Many
trails see very light use and
248
00:15:17,437 --> 00:15:21,437
minimal maintenance. Years of
wildfire activity have caused
249
00:15:21,484 --> 00:15:25,202
blowdowns and erased sections of
the trail, and vegetation can
250
00:15:25,296 --> 00:15:28,109
grow over old paths. A
backpacking guide describes the
251
00:15:28,124 --> 00:15:31,408
area as so remote The most of
the trails are in poor condition
252
00:15:31,449 --> 00:15:33,090
and they will be hard to follow
at times.
253
00:15:33,607 --> 00:15:36,049
Hikers frequently encounter
trails that disappear into
254
00:15:36,111 --> 00:15:39,408
fallen logs or thick brush.
Topographic maps show some
255
00:15:39,471 --> 00:15:43,135
trails that on the ground are
nearly invisible. In some areas,
256
00:15:43,392 --> 00:15:46,486
there are simply no trails at
all for many miles. It's truly
257
00:15:46,611 --> 00:15:47,877
wilderness in every sense.
258
00:15:48,049 --> 00:15:48,689
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Sounds
pretty cool.
259
00:15:49,017 --> 00:15:51,596
JOE ERATO: That sounds actually
like exactly what I would like
260
00:15:51,597 --> 00:15:54,533
to go camping. Yes. So one
outdoorsman familiar with the
261
00:15:54,549 --> 00:15:56,752
region said, The Selway
Bitterroot is a maze of
262
00:15:56,814 --> 00:16:00,217
pine-robed mountains, ranges,
and... Untrailed canyons,
263
00:16:00,518 --> 00:16:03,721
essentially 100 miles of solid
nothing in terms of human
264
00:16:03,779 --> 00:16:05,143
presence or infrastructure.
265
00:16:06,264 --> 00:16:09,869
Jeez. So the psychological
aspect of navigation here is
266
00:16:09,947 --> 00:16:13,494
also significant. Hikers often
report that in the Selway
267
00:16:13,510 --> 00:16:17,010
Bitterroot, distances feel much
farther than expected. The land
268
00:16:17,011 --> 00:16:20,275
is so broken and vertical that
traveling even a mile off trail
269
00:16:20,322 --> 00:16:21,494
can be exhausting and slow.
270
00:16:23,494 --> 00:16:26,241
It's easy to become exhausted
and injured. Which then makes
271
00:16:26,281 --> 00:16:28,903
navigation errors more likely.
Furthermore, the remoteness
272
00:16:28,983 --> 00:16:32,287
means there are no obvious
backstops like roads or towns to
273
00:16:32,327 --> 00:16:35,772
eventually stumble into. The
wilderness goes on and on. A
274
00:16:35,787 --> 00:16:38,412
lost person can travel for days
and not find a road.
275
00:16:38,897 --> 00:16:41,412
Getting out usually requires
retracing one's steps or
276
00:16:41,436 --> 00:16:44,272
correctly navigating tens of
miles to the wilderness
277
00:16:44,366 --> 00:16:48,100
boundary, a daunting task if
your turnaround or your maps are
278
00:16:48,147 --> 00:16:52,100
lost. Unfortunately, the history
of this wilderness includes
279
00:16:52,162 --> 00:16:55,268
numerous cases of people
becoming lost or stranded. So
280
00:16:55,649 --> 00:16:59,571
after that, I think that
severely beat into our skulls
281
00:16:59,891 --> 00:17:02,414
how remote and crazy this place
is. Let's learn about Ronald.
282
00:17:02,453 --> 00:17:04,336
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, I
wanted to make sure to really
283
00:17:04,899 --> 00:17:08,360
emphasize how remote this
section of the country is.
284
00:17:08,985 --> 00:17:10,000
JOE ERATO: I think you
succeeded.
285
00:17:10,742 --> 00:17:14,367
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, where
Ronald was. So the name of our
286
00:17:14,461 --> 00:17:18,133
subject today is Ronald Scott
Gray. He was born July 16th of
287
00:17:18,134 --> 00:17:26,837
1976. He went missing September
19th of 2008. His remains have
288
00:17:26,897 --> 00:17:33,728
not been found. He was a male,
age 62. Joe's pulling up some
289
00:17:33,743 --> 00:17:35,649
maps of this place. It is crazy
looking.
290
00:17:36,329 --> 00:17:37,806
JOE ERATO: I'm not there yet.
Don't say that. I didn't share
291
00:17:37,829 --> 00:17:38,290
anything yet.
292
00:17:39,868 --> 00:17:41,313
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Sorry, I was
just taking some water. I was
293
00:17:41,314 --> 00:17:44,970
hoping it was on the screen. He
was 62 at the time of his
294
00:17:45,017 --> 00:17:49,407
disappearance. He was 5'10 ",
200 pounds, Gray hair, brown
295
00:17:49,485 --> 00:17:49,735
eyes.
296
00:17:51,828 --> 00:17:55,271
He had some notable features
including a scar on his left leg
297
00:17:56,172 --> 00:18:00,836
and he was missing a middle
finger on his left hand clothing
298
00:18:00,875 --> 00:18:05,180
or gear he was last seen in so
this guy was very well prepared
299
00:18:05,305 --> 00:18:09,469
for his hiking or hunting trip
so he was last seen wearing
300
00:18:09,531 --> 00:18:12,953
camouflage pattern hunting
clothes appropriate for elk
301
00:18:12,969 --> 00:18:17,047
hunting and he was dressed for
the outdoors prepared to blend
302
00:18:17,156 --> 00:18:22,467
into the woodland train so While
he was very prepared for being
303
00:18:22,528 --> 00:18:26,072
out there and for elk hunting,
not very good attire for being
304
00:18:26,131 --> 00:18:27,854
found by search and rescue.
305
00:18:28,690 --> 00:18:33,057
So he pretty much blended in
with the surroundings. So it'd
306
00:18:33,058 --> 00:18:35,002
be very hard for you to see that
from the air.
307
00:18:37,986 --> 00:18:43,033
He was equipped for an extended
stay and he packed like Joe and
308
00:18:43,034 --> 00:18:44,846
I do. He had an estimated.
309
00:18:45,706 --> 00:18:49,729
JOE ERATO: 100 pounds of gear oh
wow so well it was for an elk
310
00:18:49,730 --> 00:18:52,772
hunt too so i'm sure a lot of
that could be ammunition knives
311
00:18:52,893 --> 00:18:55,378
things that are like take up a
lot of weight take up a ton of
312
00:18:55,417 --> 00:18:58,956
weight yeah so he had a large
backpack with 100 pounds of gear
313
00:18:59,957 --> 00:19:03,206
it contained supplies and he had
both hunting and fishing gear
314
00:19:03,237 --> 00:19:04,862
with him he.
315
00:19:04,878 --> 00:19:06,972
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Was also
known to be armed carrying
316
00:19:07,003 --> 00:19:11,034
hunting weapons and had survival
tools such as fire starting
317
00:19:11,065 --> 00:19:15,259
equipment. He also carried
navigation and communication
318
00:19:15,299 --> 00:19:20,886
devices. Reportedly, he had
multiple GPS device units, and
319
00:19:21,324 --> 00:19:27,394
he had a solar-powered 2A radio,
though such electronics can be
320
00:19:27,535 --> 00:19:32,480
unreliable this deep in the
wilderness. He also made use of
321
00:19:32,558 --> 00:19:37,824
pre-placed Outfitter supply
caches in the area to resupply
322
00:19:37,949 --> 00:19:38,886
during his hunt.
323
00:19:39,542 --> 00:19:45,491
JOE ERATO: So this might be one
of the most well-prepared people
324
00:19:45,551 --> 00:19:49,275
we've discussed on the show so
like he set the caches up like
325
00:19:49,314 --> 00:19:52,478
fill them with or they're just
existing outfitters oh
326
00:19:52,517 --> 00:19:55,283
outfitters put them out there
for the hunters in case they
327
00:19:55,322 --> 00:20:01,072
need to use them is it caches or
caches cash cash yeah okay i
328
00:20:01,073 --> 00:20:04,087
wasn't gonna call you out but
call me out all right it's it's
329
00:20:04,150 --> 00:20:12,337
cash cash so in fact searchers
later found one of Gray's
330
00:20:12,416 --> 00:20:14,103
backpacks at an Outfitter.
331
00:20:15,078 --> 00:20:17,299
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Campsite
near Highline Lake, which is
332
00:20:17,321 --> 00:20:20,905
about 5,000 feet of elevation,
containing his journals
333
00:20:20,983 --> 00:20:24,846
detailing his gear, vitamins,
and other personal items. This
334
00:20:24,948 --> 00:20:30,331
suggested that he had visited
the cache and left the pack
335
00:20:30,674 --> 00:20:36,174
intending to return for it. So,
very well prepared. This is,
336
00:20:36,502 --> 00:20:42,487
like I said, the most prepared
person we've ever covered on the
337
00:20:42,518 --> 00:20:44,206
show up to this point.
338
00:20:46,367 --> 00:20:51,073
Personality of Ron he friends
described him as someone who is
339
00:20:51,210 --> 00:20:56,174
very direct and honest yet easy
to get along with he's not he's
340
00:20:56,237 --> 00:20:59,737
not politically correct tells
you what he thinks and he likes
341
00:20:59,823 --> 00:21:04,651
everybody said a longtime friend
this kind of sounds like a
342
00:21:04,698 --> 00:21:10,604
typical Marine veteran veteran
of law enforcement kind of a a
343
00:21:10,635 --> 00:21:16,682
nice guy but you know blunt and
to the point yes As far as
344
00:21:16,722 --> 00:21:20,202
medical issues go, he was
reportedly in good health at the
345
00:21:20,222 --> 00:21:21,464
time of his disappearance.
346
00:21:23,022 --> 00:21:27,100
At 62, he was physically fit for
his age. He had no known chronic
347
00:21:27,163 --> 00:21:32,046
illnesses that might have
contributed to the incident. And
348
00:21:32,202 --> 00:21:35,249
from everything I could find
during my research, friends and
349
00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:38,968
officials did not cite any
medical condition like heart
350
00:21:38,983 --> 00:21:41,952
problems or diabetes that could
have caused him to become
351
00:21:42,061 --> 00:21:47,461
incapacitated. So For his age, a
very healthy man.
352
00:21:49,602 --> 00:21:55,645
So nothing on the medical front
gives me pause. Occupation
353
00:21:55,707 --> 00:22:02,121
hobby. So Ron was a dedicated
much of his life to service. He
354
00:22:02,122 --> 00:22:07,418
was a retired U. S. Marine and a
Vietnam War veteran.
355
00:22:11,137 --> 00:22:12,559
I need to look something up
here.
356
00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:14,449
JOE ERATO: What did you see?
357
00:22:15,018 --> 00:22:19,163
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Well, so in
my character profile, I had a
358
00:22:19,182 --> 00:22:25,686
date of birth of 1976, which is
obviously not right if he was a
359
00:22:25,710 --> 00:22:26,608
Vietnam veteran.
360
00:22:29,952 --> 00:22:34,483
So I'm going to quick, because I
am curious now, we're going to
361
00:22:34,484 --> 00:22:37,655
pause the show. We'll record
over this.
362
00:22:38,202 --> 00:22:38,702
JOE ERATO: No, we won't.
363
00:22:41,483 --> 00:22:43,061
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I must have
typed that wrong.
364
00:22:46,766 --> 00:22:52,010
But there is no way he was born
in 19... Ah, there we go. Typed
365
00:22:52,011 --> 00:22:56,775
it wrong. Born in 1946. There
you go. Okay, typo.
366
00:22:56,776 --> 00:23:01,182
JOE ERATO: You just cost us like
10 followers.
367
00:23:01,924 --> 00:23:02,658
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: For getting
it right?
368
00:23:02,728 --> 00:23:04,197
JOE ERATO: Yep, no, getting it
wrong initially.
369
00:23:05,572 --> 00:23:07,900
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: It's your
fault. It is all my fault. Well,
370
00:23:07,963 --> 00:23:12,978
hey, when I read he was a Marine
Vietnam veteran, I'm like, oh,
371
00:23:12,979 --> 00:23:13,635
that's interesting.
372
00:23:13,942 --> 00:23:18,047
Was born a year after the
Vietnam War ended so how could
373
00:23:18,086 --> 00:23:25,894
that be so all right he was born
in 1946 people not 76 yeah and
374
00:23:26,497 --> 00:23:31,715
yeah he was a Marine Vietnam war
veteran served two tours in
375
00:23:31,746 --> 00:23:35,449
Vietnam with the first battalion
ninth Marines or the famed
376
00:23:35,621 --> 00:23:39,933
walking dead unit during his
military service he was noted
377
00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:44,109
for bravery Members of his unit
were known for their commitment
378
00:23:44,249 --> 00:23:46,031
and refusal to quit the fight.
379
00:23:47,073 --> 00:23:50,034
After the Marines, Gray embarked
on a long law enforcement
380
00:23:50,035 --> 00:23:53,339
career. He served with the
Massachusetts State Police for
381
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,323
35 years, eventually retiring at
the rank of State Police
382
00:23:57,363 --> 00:23:57,823
Captain.
383
00:23:59,948 --> 00:24:02,589
Earlier in his law enforcement
career, he had been an officer
384
00:24:02,652 --> 00:24:06,855
with the Metropolitan District
Commission Police, working as a
385
00:24:06,886 --> 00:24:11,457
canine handler and patrolling
wilderness areas like the
386
00:24:11,918 --> 00:24:14,226
Quabbin Reservoir in
Massachusetts.
387
00:24:16,847 --> 00:24:21,352
Excuse me. Colleagues described
him as a highly competent and
388
00:24:21,411 --> 00:24:24,618
top-notch officer. He was
well-respected in law
389
00:24:24,657 --> 00:24:27,938
enforcement circles. Even the
Massachusetts lieutenant
390
00:24:28,001 --> 00:24:30,977
governor reached out to Idaho
officials during the search,
391
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,243
underscoring how valued Gray was
to his friends.
392
00:24:35,759 --> 00:24:40,212
Experience in the wilderness, so
given his background, Gray had
393
00:24:40,352 --> 00:24:44,548
extensive wilderness survival
training. As a Marine combat
394
00:24:44,607 --> 00:24:46,849
veteran, he would have been
trained in survival, land
395
00:24:46,890 --> 00:24:52,395
navigation, and endurance under
harsh conditions. And even the
396
00:24:52,513 --> 00:24:56,520
Idaho County Sheriff's Office
was aware of his extensive
397
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:59,184
survival training and took that
into account during their
398
00:24:59,263 --> 00:24:59,583
search.
399
00:24:59,958 --> 00:25:00,989
JOE ERATO: Yeah, like, look at
all this.
400
00:25:01,708 --> 00:25:02,489
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, it's
crazy.
401
00:25:02,490 --> 00:25:05,583
JOE ERATO: It is just nothing.
It's super aggressive mountains.
402
00:25:05,786 --> 00:25:05,927
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah.
403
00:25:06,911 --> 00:25:09,645
JOE ERATO: It's just, yeah, you
just go forever, and there's no
404
00:25:09,755 --> 00:25:13,603
roads. There's literally
nothing. Yeah. Here's like the
405
00:25:13,663 --> 00:25:16,326
line of towns right here, but
that's it.
406
00:25:16,904 --> 00:25:19,029
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: This is
another area, like when I was
407
00:25:19,088 --> 00:25:22,693
thinking back of all the hiking
trips we've done, we never even,
408
00:25:23,256 --> 00:25:24,396
probably didn't even know of
this place.
409
00:25:24,615 --> 00:25:26,873
JOE ERATO: Yeah, it's like a
corridor of small towns and then
410
00:25:26,874 --> 00:25:29,678
to the left, just look at this.
411
00:25:30,756 --> 00:25:32,365
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I mean, that
would be true backcountry
412
00:25:32,428 --> 00:25:32,787
hiking.
413
00:25:33,568 --> 00:25:35,318
JOE ERATO: Yeah, there's
nothing. Yeah.
414
00:25:37,381 --> 00:25:41,443
That's wild. There's so much
like land.
415
00:25:43,787 --> 00:25:48,293
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Land it's
good to have land so yeah beyond
416
00:25:48,294 --> 00:25:52,059
his formal training Gray was by
all accounts a seasoned
417
00:25:52,098 --> 00:25:57,520
outdoorsman friends describe him
as having top-notch outdoorsman
418
00:25:57,598 --> 00:26:01,160
skills and being well trained
and able to survive in the
419
00:26:01,192 --> 00:26:04,645
wilderness on his own he had
decades of experience with
420
00:26:04,692 --> 00:26:08,535
camping hunting and living off
the land for example he was
421
00:26:08,567 --> 00:26:11,301
comfortable reliling fires,
constructing shelter if needed.
422
00:26:12,010 --> 00:26:15,693
And knew how to safely approach
wilderness survival. When he
423
00:26:15,754 --> 00:26:19,439
went into the Idaho wilderness
in 2008, he was well-prepared
424
00:26:19,459 --> 00:26:20,557
with gear and knowledge.
425
00:26:23,705 --> 00:26:25,861
JOE ERATO: He's like the type of
guy who you'd want to have with
426
00:26:25,885 --> 00:26:29,486
you in the class. Oh, yeah,
100%.
427
00:26:29,487 --> 00:26:33,596
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: So not only
was he just generally
428
00:26:34,096 --> 00:26:38,830
experienced everything outdoor,
he also had experience...
429
00:26:39,298 --> 00:26:43,803
Specific experience with solo
wilderness camping because he
430
00:26:43,885 --> 00:26:47,627
had done this on one prior
occasion occasion where he
431
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:51,814
stayed in the field alone for a
few extra days after the hunting
432
00:26:51,853 --> 00:26:55,861
group left so he actually had
done this before so it's not out
433
00:26:55,862 --> 00:26:59,970
of the realm of possibilities
for him yeah familiar with the
434
00:27:00,002 --> 00:27:04,049
area knows how to work use the
tools yeah he actually hunted in
435
00:27:04,050 --> 00:27:07,549
this area twice before this
trip. So he's, you know...
436
00:27:08,166 --> 00:27:13,426
Been here before so he kind of
knew what to expect so yeah it
437
00:27:14,129 --> 00:27:18,367
it's kind of shocking you know
that he went missing so our
438
00:27:18,406 --> 00:27:27,883
timeline starts on September
14th of 2008 so Ron arrived in
439
00:27:27,992 --> 00:27:32,274
Idaho for an elk hunting trip
with two friends the group
440
00:27:32,399 --> 00:27:37,798
entered the remote Nez Perce
National Forest to hunt elk They
441
00:27:37,978 --> 00:27:40,822
set up a camp in the Selway
Bitterroot Wilderness area.
442
00:27:41,781 --> 00:27:46,425
Like I said, Gray was in good
health and been here twice
443
00:27:46,464 --> 00:27:50,714
before. And he was also, like I
said, equipped with extensive
444
00:27:50,753 --> 00:27:55,558
gear, packed just like Joe and I
did, had a 100-pound backpack,
445
00:27:56,636 --> 00:28:01,199
and had knowledge of Outfitter
supply caches in the area that
446
00:28:01,449 --> 00:28:04,589
he could help that had extra
food or supplies if needed.
447
00:28:06,339 --> 00:28:12,873
So It's now September 14th to
September 19th of 2008. So over
448
00:28:13,377 --> 00:28:18,600
the next several days of
hunting, Ron exhibited some
449
00:28:18,639 --> 00:28:20,827
unusual behavior noted by his
companions.
450
00:28:20,905 --> 00:28:25,006
So he cached food, batteries,
and other supplies in greater
451
00:28:25,069 --> 00:28:30,709
amounts than expected for just a
short stay. One hunting partner
452
00:28:30,772 --> 00:28:34,678
reported that Gray had even
spent nights away from the camp
453
00:28:34,741 --> 00:28:39,455
alone during one night outing.
Ron became confused in the dark
454
00:28:39,574 --> 00:28:43,276
after losing his flashlight and
had to be guided back to camp by
455
00:28:43,334 --> 00:28:43,897
another hunter.
456
00:28:45,713 --> 00:28:48,416
In a written statement to the
Idaho County Sheriff's Office,
457
00:28:48,940 --> 00:28:51,557
the friend said he appeared to
be reliving some of his
458
00:28:51,635 --> 00:28:55,205
experiences from Vietnam,
suggesting that Gray's military
459
00:28:55,283 --> 00:28:59,236
past might have influenced his
behavior or mindset in the
460
00:28:59,252 --> 00:28:59,752
wilderness.
461
00:29:00,815 --> 00:29:04,955
But despite these incidents, Ron
continued hunting and did not
462
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,713
indicate. Any serious problems
to his companions but either way
463
00:29:09,832 --> 00:29:17,643
that is a little troubling that
he might have had some kind of
464
00:29:17,686 --> 00:29:24,550
episode where he got confused
and started reliving past things
465
00:29:24,551 --> 00:29:26,557
he did while he was serving in
Vietnam.
466
00:29:27,417 --> 00:29:28,097
JOE ERATO: Yeah, that's too bad.
467
00:29:29,354 --> 00:29:31,401
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: We know he
didn't have any reported medical
468
00:29:31,464 --> 00:29:38,448
issues, but maybe he still
suffered from PTSD from his time
469
00:29:38,511 --> 00:29:41,401
serving in Vietnam or even his
time as a law enforcement
470
00:29:41,464 --> 00:29:47,546
officer. We don't know though.
So it's now September 19th of
471
00:29:47,647 --> 00:29:53,288
2008. This would be the day that
he ended up disappearing.
472
00:29:58,296 --> 00:30:05,530
And sorry, I lost my spot. So
this was the planned end date of
473
00:30:05,546 --> 00:30:06,264
the group's hunt.
474
00:30:07,124 --> 00:30:10,671
So Ron's two friends packed up
and left the forest on the 19th
475
00:30:11,311 --> 00:30:15,706
while Gray opted to stay behind
to continue hunting on his own
476
00:30:15,764 --> 00:30:22,928
for a few more days hey there's
our site yeah like i said
477
00:30:23,006 --> 00:30:27,303
earlier this decision was not
unprecedented he had extended
478
00:30:27,389 --> 00:30:31,631
his solo hunting trips in the
past the understanding was that
479
00:30:31,694 --> 00:30:34,725
he would exit the wilderness a
few days later he arranged to
480
00:30:34,772 --> 00:30:38,350
meet an Outfitter at the
specified rendezvous point at
481
00:30:38,897 --> 00:30:44,274
Otter Butte area near, at the
Otter Butte area in the Nez
482
00:30:44,356 --> 00:30:49,199
Perce National Forest on
September 23rd, 2008.
483
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,805
His friends departed, making
September 19th the last
484
00:30:52,844 --> 00:30:57,547
confirmed time Gray was seen by
anyone in person. Like I said,
485
00:30:57,548 --> 00:31:00,438
he was dressed in camouflage
hunting clothes and carried his
486
00:31:02,016 --> 00:31:05,609
substantial pack and weapons as
he remained in the backcountry
487
00:31:05,656 --> 00:31:12,698
alone. So it's now September
23rd. The rendezvous date that
488
00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:14,300
he failed to meet at.
489
00:31:16,462 --> 00:31:20,403
So he was supposed to meet there
the day so he could be picked up
490
00:31:20,489 --> 00:31:25,052
or resupplied, but no one saw
him at the meeting spot. By the
491
00:31:25,231 --> 00:31:29,692
end of the 23rd, it was clear
that he was overdue. The remote
492
00:31:29,755 --> 00:31:32,802
area has limited or no cell
phone service. Shocking.
493
00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:38,798
He did carry two radios,
including a solar-powered radio
494
00:31:38,959 --> 00:31:42,601
and possibly a GPS unit for
communication. However, those
495
00:31:42,621 --> 00:31:47,285
devices may not have been
working reliably in the deep
496
00:31:47,371 --> 00:31:51,347
canyons and thick forest. Now,
this is interesting.
497
00:31:51,972 --> 00:31:55,550
There were unconfirmed reports
of a radio transmission around
498
00:31:55,597 --> 00:31:59,441
this time. One report indicated
that Gray transmitted a message
499
00:31:59,503 --> 00:32:02,519
saying he had injured his knee
and was trying to get back to
500
00:32:02,566 --> 00:32:06,931
camp. But it's unclear when that
transmission occurred, and it
501
00:32:06,932 --> 00:32:09,876
was never definitively linked to
him.
502
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:16,001
But it does appear he never made
it back to camp or, obviously,
503
00:32:16,064 --> 00:32:20,782
the rendezvous point. So a
couple interesting things so far
504
00:32:20,798 --> 00:32:24,970
in the case. We have the report
by his friends that he was
505
00:32:25,751 --> 00:32:30,454
acting odd one of the nights,
and then a potential unconfirmed
506
00:32:30,548 --> 00:32:31,689
radio transmission where...
507
00:32:32,524 --> 00:32:35,647
They heard him say he had
injured his knee and was trying
508
00:32:35,648 --> 00:32:40,729
to get back to camp. So
interesting. And because it was
509
00:32:40,730 --> 00:32:45,299
a radio transmission, you know,
not a cell phone call, it's
510
00:32:45,354 --> 00:32:49,143
probably nearly impossible to
figure out where it originated
511
00:32:49,205 --> 00:32:52,143
from. Yeah. Unless somebody had
recorded it.
512
00:32:54,018 --> 00:33:03,853
So it's now September 24th, 2008
to September 26th, 2008. So, you
513
00:33:03,854 --> 00:33:07,738
know, people started growing
more concerned as the days
514
00:33:07,816 --> 00:33:11,664
passed with no sign of him. His
hunting companions who had
515
00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:15,124
expected he might show up late
waited about three days after he
516
00:33:15,164 --> 00:33:18,656
missed their meeting before
formally reporting him missing.
517
00:33:19,984 --> 00:33:23,093
By September 26th, he was
officially reported as a missing
518
00:33:23,124 --> 00:33:27,718
person to the Idaho County
authorities. But in fact, local
519
00:33:27,749 --> 00:33:31,796
authorities were alerted even
earlier by September 24th.
520
00:33:32,460 --> 00:33:38,708
Due to the missed Outfitter
rendezvous so essentially by the
521
00:33:38,747 --> 00:33:41,712
day after Gray's no-show
searchers had began mobilizing
522
00:33:41,713 --> 00:33:45,133
in the area and the friends
confirmed his disappearance on
523
00:33:45,134 --> 00:33:48,313
the 26th he had now been missing
in the wilderness for at least
524
00:33:48,501 --> 00:33:52,844
three days with no contact his
wife Nancy Gray who lived back
525
00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:56,860
in Massachusetts was notified
and family members began to fear
526
00:33:56,922 --> 00:34:00,594
that something had gone very
wrong Nancy told reporters she
527
00:34:00,672 --> 00:34:04,425
was not concerned about him
finding food given his survival
528
00:34:04,483 --> 00:34:08,272
skills she said i'm concerned
about his name i think he's hurt
529
00:34:08,350 --> 00:34:16,883
and i want more people out there
searching So during that time,
530
00:34:16,982 --> 00:34:19,824
initial search and rescue
efforts kicked off in the Nez
531
00:34:19,887 --> 00:34:22,945
Perce National Forest, focused
around the Otter Butte
532
00:34:22,992 --> 00:34:26,930
Rendezvous Area and the last
places Gray was believed to have
533
00:34:26,969 --> 00:34:28,414
been hunting.
534
00:34:29,133 --> 00:34:32,094
Idaho County Sheriff's Office
organized the response with the
535
00:34:32,312 --> 00:34:36,125
Idaho County Sheriff's search
and rescue posse teams heading
536
00:34:36,203 --> 00:34:40,719
into the field. By the 24th,
ground searchers were combing
537
00:34:40,750 --> 00:34:45,485
the trails and ranges near his
route. Some attention was given
538
00:34:45,525 --> 00:34:48,987
to the Jim Creek area, a spot
Gray had mentioned he might
539
00:34:49,069 --> 00:34:51,812
visit to go fishing before
leaving the wilderness.
540
00:34:53,534 --> 00:34:57,894
Like Joe initially mentioned,
the terrain was extremely rugged
541
00:34:57,895 --> 00:35:02,276
and remote, part of the 1.3
million acre Selway Bitterroot
542
00:35:02,386 --> 00:35:07,480
Wilderness area. So despite the
difficulty, search crews knew
543
00:35:07,526 --> 00:35:13,104
that covering ground quickly was
critical given that Gray was an
544
00:35:13,184 --> 00:35:15,125
older adult potentially in need
of help.
545
00:35:17,304 --> 00:35:23,347
So it's now late September 2008.
So as the days progressed, the
546
00:35:23,410 --> 00:35:26,988
search operation expanded. The
sheriff's office received
547
00:35:27,027 --> 00:35:29,980
assistance from multiple
agencies and volunteers. The
548
00:35:30,121 --> 00:35:32,996
Army National Guard provided
support, notably deploying
549
00:35:33,433 --> 00:35:36,293
helicopters to conduct aerial
searches over the wilderness.
550
00:35:37,855 --> 00:35:42,345
Private aviation firm Hillcrest
Aircraft Co. Also volunteered a
551
00:35:42,366 --> 00:35:45,928
helicopter and pilot to help
scour the backcountry from the
552
00:35:45,991 --> 00:35:46,147
air.
553
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:51,795
On the ground, teams of trained
sheriff's volunteers and other
554
00:35:51,897 --> 00:35:55,498
searchers work through dense
forests, steep ridges, and river
555
00:35:55,537 --> 00:35:59,686
valleys. Like we've mentioned,
this terrain is just unforgiving
556
00:36:00,342 --> 00:36:02,889
and they face challenging
conditions. Many trails were
557
00:36:02,952 --> 00:36:08,452
faint or had been affected by
past forest fires and regrowth,
558
00:36:09,905 --> 00:36:12,546
which Made navigation very
difficult.
559
00:36:14,567 --> 00:36:17,712
By the end of September,
approximately 50 people were in
560
00:36:17,713 --> 00:36:21,134
the area. This included official
searchers and many hunters who
561
00:36:21,135 --> 00:36:24,079
were arriving for the general
hunting season and had been
562
00:36:24,181 --> 00:36:26,579
asked to keep watch for any sign
of Gray.
563
00:36:29,548 --> 00:36:32,345
Even though this is a pretty
large search rescue, you know,
564
00:36:32,485 --> 00:36:36,803
looking at this terrain, 50
people is...
565
00:36:36,803 --> 00:36:37,845
JOE ERATO: That's nothing.
566
00:36:38,267 --> 00:36:41,738
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I mean...
And with how experienced he was
567
00:36:41,958 --> 00:36:46,340
and how fit he was, he could
have, I mean, he could have gone
568
00:36:47,024 --> 00:36:49,786
deep into the wilderness before
hurting his knee.
569
00:36:50,184 --> 00:36:50,387
JOE ERATO: Yeah.
570
00:36:51,004 --> 00:36:52,270
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: And they
don't know which way he went
571
00:36:52,286 --> 00:36:54,770
because there's really no
trails. He could have gone
572
00:36:54,809 --> 00:36:55,653
anywhere. I mean.
573
00:36:56,465 --> 00:36:59,372
JOE ERATO: Yeah, you're not
going to see. No. Any trace of
574
00:36:59,373 --> 00:37:03,840
him at all. Yeah. It's just
wild. Yeah, there's no trails on
575
00:37:03,841 --> 00:37:04,340
all trails.
576
00:37:04,981 --> 00:37:05,137
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah.
577
00:37:06,903 --> 00:37:09,961
JOE ERATO: There's a couple real
far away, but. This is the first
578
00:37:09,981 --> 00:37:13,184
time i opened this app and
there's just nothing yeah like
579
00:37:13,364 --> 00:37:16,426
even like in remote areas like
oh there's this one path that
580
00:37:16,465 --> 00:37:19,188
some guy made there's just
literally nothing yeah we've
581
00:37:19,212 --> 00:37:23,430
covered some remote areas but
this is probably wins yeah this
582
00:37:23,454 --> 00:37:26,360
is the most remote this is
almost more remote than some of
583
00:37:26,361 --> 00:37:29,032
the places we've covered in
Alaska i.
584
00:37:29,063 --> 00:37:32,423
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Mean if you
think about you look at this in
585
00:37:32,424 --> 00:37:37,593
the totality of at least this
area yeah you go 100 miles in
586
00:37:37,834 --> 00:37:42,940
any direction in some spots and
not hit anything which is wild
587
00:37:43,178 --> 00:37:48,264
yeah it looks beautiful though i
would love to absolutely hike
588
00:37:48,288 --> 00:37:57,256
this so some of the conditions
searchers faced i always like
589
00:37:58,006 --> 00:38:02,303
giving a a paint a picture of
what they went through during
590
00:38:02,319 --> 00:38:06,109
the search so The incident
commander, Idaho County Chief
591
00:38:06,148 --> 00:38:10,290
Deputy Sheriff John Nita, gave
frequent updates to the media.
592
00:38:10,349 --> 00:38:12,747
He noted that Gray was
well-equipped and knowledgeable
593
00:38:12,748 --> 00:38:17,154
about survival, which at the
time gave hope that Ron could
594
00:38:17,193 --> 00:38:24,575
hold out until found. Excuse me.
Gray reportedly carried
595
00:38:24,685 --> 00:38:28,091
fire-starting tools and was
armed for hunting, so he could
596
00:38:28,107 --> 00:38:30,919
defend himself or signal with
gunshots in an emergency.
597
00:38:33,404 --> 00:38:35,467
Like we also said, they
mentioned that he had
598
00:38:35,506 --> 00:38:39,791
familiarity with other preset
wilderness cache sites and might
599
00:38:39,889 --> 00:38:43,592
use those supplies if needed.
However, sadly, no distress
600
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:45,233
signals were observed.
601
00:38:47,295 --> 00:38:51,358
That includes campfire smoke,
signal fires, mirror flashes, or
602
00:38:51,436 --> 00:39:00,985
visible SOS messages were
detected during the search. K-9
603
00:39:01,467 --> 00:39:04,399
search units were offered by
volunteers, but in the first
604
00:39:04,460 --> 00:39:08,600
week of the sheriff's office, In
the first week, the sheriff's
605
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,883
office did not deploy search
dogs due to the extremely rugged
606
00:39:12,145 --> 00:39:13,984
terrain and logistical
challenges.
607
00:39:14,746 --> 00:39:17,309
Officials said if the search
remained unproductive, they
608
00:39:17,348 --> 00:39:21,395
would consider trying anything,
including dogs, as time went on.
609
00:39:24,090 --> 00:39:26,543
A little bit of good news during
the search was that the weather
610
00:39:26,544 --> 00:39:29,402
in late September was favorable
for search operations.
611
00:39:31,043 --> 00:39:32,855
JOE ERATO: Searches. The one
time it's favorable. It's in the
612
00:39:32,918 --> 00:39:33,668
middle of nowhere.
613
00:39:33,762 --> 00:39:34,246
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, right.
614
00:39:36,105 --> 00:39:41,117
The Deputy Nita reported that
conditions were clear and mild
615
00:39:41,157 --> 00:39:44,942
initially. This allowed
helicopters to fly on most days
616
00:39:44,961 --> 00:39:47,883
and ground teams to traverse the
area without dealing with rain
617
00:39:47,907 --> 00:39:51,110
or snow in the first week.
Daytime temperatures were
618
00:39:51,149 --> 00:39:55,219
reasonable, though nights were
undoubtedly cold in the
619
00:39:55,235 --> 00:39:59,594
mountains. As the search moved
towards October, forecasts
620
00:39:59,610 --> 00:39:59,969
indicated.
621
00:40:00,088 --> 00:40:03,692
Major change clouds are rolling
in by the end of September and
622
00:40:03,811 --> 00:40:07,837
snow is expected in the high
country by the first days of
623
00:40:07,915 --> 00:40:12,684
October so it's just one of
those it's too bad he was
624
00:40:12,778 --> 00:40:16,809
dressed in camouflage because oh
it just makes it this is one of
625
00:40:16,810 --> 00:40:19,840
the first impossible yeah one of
the where they had like clear
626
00:40:19,872 --> 00:40:23,934
and mild days like they keep the
helicopters up every day and
627
00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:27,637
you've got this dense vegetation
and you've got a guy dressed in
628
00:40:27,778 --> 00:40:33,356
camouflage to blend in yeah I
mean, nearly impossible to see
629
00:40:33,415 --> 00:40:34,196
someone at that point.
630
00:40:34,336 --> 00:40:36,239
JOE ERATO: Yeah, anyone who's
watching the monitor just.
631
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,821
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, so
crazy.
632
00:40:38,822 --> 00:40:43,407
JOE ERATO: Aggressive, rugged,
looks gorgeous, but you're not
633
00:40:43,461 --> 00:40:44,188
finding anybody.
634
00:40:44,547 --> 00:40:45,204
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: No, no.
635
00:40:47,571 --> 00:40:53,149
So the looming weather changes
added some urgency to the
636
00:40:53,211 --> 00:40:58,180
search. So, you know, if he was
out there, you know.
637
00:40:58,744 --> 00:41:01,946
Snowfall could worsen his
situation and complicate search
638
00:41:02,007 --> 00:41:06,911
efforts so they were really
hoping to find something before
639
00:41:06,935 --> 00:41:13,419
all that came in so it's now
October 1st of 2008 so nearly a
640
00:41:13,521 --> 00:41:16,388
week into the search crews had
scoured many miles of the
641
00:41:16,389 --> 00:41:20,919
wilderness with no substantial
leads on October 1st searchers
642
00:41:20,966 --> 00:41:24,888
came across a discarded towel on
the ground in the forest it was
643
00:41:24,903 --> 00:41:28,810
the first potential clue found
but it was not clear if it
644
00:41:28,811 --> 00:41:29,730
belonged to Ron.
645
00:41:30,812 --> 00:41:31,771
Aside from that, they had...
646
00:41:31,772 --> 00:41:33,794
JOE ERATO: What are the odds it
belonged to anyone else? Right?
647
00:41:34,056 --> 00:41:36,298
That's kind of what I'm saying
is, like, they found a human
648
00:41:36,415 --> 00:41:38,236
thing? Yeah. Like, it's Ron's.
649
00:41:38,759 --> 00:41:41,986
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Could be.
Good chance. Yeah. Aside from
650
00:41:42,025 --> 00:41:44,720
that, they had found no fresh
footprints, camps, or other
651
00:41:44,767 --> 00:41:48,111
personal belongings during the
initial sweeps. The search
652
00:41:48,236 --> 00:41:53,079
effort continued at full force.
However, the National Guard
653
00:41:53,126 --> 00:41:54,970
helicopter was unavailable on
this day.
654
00:41:56,316 --> 00:42:01,242
So searching relied on ground
teams exclusively. Eight trained
655
00:42:01,301 --> 00:42:04,285
searchers from the sheriff's
department covered as much
656
00:42:04,363 --> 00:42:08,449
terrain as possible on foot that
day. By evening, they noted the
657
00:42:08,512 --> 00:42:12,215
weather was still holding clear,
but cloud cover was increasing,
658
00:42:13,168 --> 00:42:15,402
anticipating snow by the next
day or so.
659
00:42:18,683 --> 00:42:23,637
By October 2nd of 2008, this is
when a major break in the case
660
00:42:23,683 --> 00:42:24,090
occurred.
661
00:42:24,246 --> 00:42:28,462
Searchers actually found the
Ronald's backpack in the
662
00:42:28,481 --> 00:42:33,929
wilderness so the pack was
discovered near Highline Lake at
663
00:42:33,948 --> 00:42:37,507
approximately 5 000 feet
elevation so i don't know if you
664
00:42:37,530 --> 00:42:47,054
can find Highline Lake out here
yeah let me look so while Joe's
665
00:42:47,116 --> 00:42:49,788
looking that up i'll continue so
it was located in Outfitter's
666
00:42:49,819 --> 00:42:54,210
camp essentially a preset camp
where guides had pitched a tent
667
00:42:54,335 --> 00:42:58,053
for the season Ron's pack
appeared to have been left there
668
00:42:58,094 --> 00:42:58,715
intentionally.
669
00:42:58,895 --> 00:43:02,600
It was not dropped haphazardly
on the trail, but found at a
670
00:43:02,639 --> 00:43:06,260
campsite, as if Gray had placed
it down while using the camp
671
00:43:06,323 --> 00:43:06,619
spot.
672
00:43:08,627 --> 00:43:11,791
Wow, so that's up there. 5,000
feet elevation, it said. Yeah.
673
00:43:12,807 --> 00:43:15,057
So, yeah, there's an Outfitter
camp nearby there. I don't know
674
00:43:15,058 --> 00:43:16,073
if you can see that on the...
675
00:43:17,619 --> 00:43:17,932
JOE ERATO: I see.
676
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:21,057
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: You zoom in,
if you can see anything at the
677
00:43:21,323 --> 00:43:21,432
lake.
678
00:43:21,433 --> 00:43:22,760
JOE ERATO: Oh, like right at the
lake you're saying?
679
00:43:22,761 --> 00:43:23,901
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah,
they're saying that Outfitter
680
00:43:23,916 --> 00:43:25,104
had a campsite set up.
681
00:43:29,076 --> 00:43:29,717
Not that we would.
682
00:43:29,957 --> 00:43:32,640
JOE ERATO: Yeah, I know. Yeah,
sometimes, like, if it's an
683
00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:34,761
outfield, they, like, probably
put stuff in the same space.
684
00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:36,765
That's what I'm looking for.
Yeah. Anything that looks not
685
00:43:36,766 --> 00:43:37,003
natural.
686
00:43:37,081 --> 00:43:40,386
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Because they
leave a tent up all season that
687
00:43:40,409 --> 00:43:41,167
can be used.
688
00:43:44,409 --> 00:43:45,518
JOE ERATO: Yeah, I'm not seeing
anything.
689
00:43:47,550 --> 00:43:50,893
Let's see if there's any street
view stuff. Nowhere.
690
00:43:51,315 --> 00:43:51,440
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: No.
691
00:43:51,472 --> 00:43:56,440
JOE ERATO: That's wild.
692
00:43:56,909 --> 00:43:57,847
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah. So.
693
00:43:59,701 --> 00:44:03,226
So he made it up there. So he
wasn't injured yet. Cause I
694
00:44:03,227 --> 00:44:06,448
mean, if you had a bum knee,
you're not going to go up to a
695
00:44:06,468 --> 00:44:08,952
lake at 5,000 feet elevation.
Yeah.
696
00:44:11,233 --> 00:44:16,101
So inside the backpack searchers
found various personal items and
697
00:44:16,132 --> 00:44:21,163
logs, found a journal detailing
the gear Gray was carrying his
698
00:44:21,257 --> 00:44:24,741
vitamins and other small
supplies. And even a checkbook
699
00:44:24,819 --> 00:44:30,571
bank book were in the pack.
Uh... Crucially, no notes or SOS
700
00:44:30,651 --> 00:44:34,614
message was left in the pack.
There was nothing indicating his
701
00:44:34,696 --> 00:44:37,138
plans or that he was in
distress.
702
00:44:38,981 --> 00:44:42,122
So to law enforcement, this
suggested that when he left the
703
00:44:42,123 --> 00:44:45,864
pack, he did not anticipate an
emergency. He perhaps meant to
704
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,872
return to that spot. The sheriff
stated the pack may have been
705
00:44:49,952 --> 00:44:53,795
left behind because Gray planned
to return to that campsite after
706
00:44:53,834 --> 00:44:58,299
a short excursion elsewhere. The
location of the pack, Highline
707
00:44:58,338 --> 00:45:03,627
Lake, is in very rugged country
not far from Mirror Lake Ridge,
708
00:45:04,182 --> 00:45:06,166
another landmark noted in some
reports.
709
00:45:06,823 --> 00:45:10,151
This is still within the broad
search zone, but finding the
710
00:45:10,166 --> 00:45:14,432
pack helped narrow the focus of
the search operations to the
711
00:45:14,448 --> 00:45:17,967
surrounding area. Upon this
discovery, search teams
712
00:45:18,528 --> 00:45:22,149
redoubled their efforts in the
Highline Lake Otter Butte
713
00:45:22,672 --> 00:45:25,751
vicinity, looking for any
tracks, broken branches, or
714
00:45:25,852 --> 00:45:30,782
signs that he went in a
particular direction from that
715
00:45:30,837 --> 00:45:31,180
camp.
716
00:45:33,297 --> 00:45:39,313
It's now October 3rd, 2008 to
October 4th, 2008. So by the
717
00:45:39,329 --> 00:45:42,172
first days of October, the
search had been running for over
718
00:45:42,204 --> 00:45:47,492
a week. Additional personal
Personnel arrived to assist. Two
719
00:45:47,632 --> 00:45:51,095
of Ron's close friends, both
retired Massachusetts State
720
00:45:51,134 --> 00:45:54,216
Troopers, flew out west to join
the search on the ground.
721
00:45:56,318 --> 00:45:59,826
They met with local officials at
the search base near Otter Butte
722
00:46:00,583 --> 00:46:04,615
and provided information on
Gray's habits and skills, hoping
723
00:46:04,616 --> 00:46:09,208
to aid the effort. Around
October 3rd, unfortunately, the
724
00:46:09,318 --> 00:46:11,208
much-anticipated weather change
hit.
725
00:46:11,771 --> 00:46:17,667
Snowfall blanketed parts of the
national forest deputy Nita
726
00:46:18,245 --> 00:46:22,045
noted that snow is expected to
hit that weekend and indeed the
727
00:46:22,065 --> 00:46:26,331
temperatures dropped sharply so
this really had a two-fold
728
00:46:26,370 --> 00:46:30,815
effect it made searching vastly
more difficult and potentially
729
00:46:30,862 --> 00:46:35,768
dangerous in higher elevations
and it also raised hopes that if
730
00:46:36,768 --> 00:46:40,034
he was mobile and sheltering
somewhere the cold and snow
731
00:46:40,127 --> 00:46:43,763
might compel him to walk out to
lower elevations or signal for
732
00:46:43,824 --> 00:46:50,252
help so searchers remained
vigilant scanning the fresh snow
733
00:46:50,291 --> 00:46:54,892
for any new tracks unfortunately
no new footprints or clues were
734
00:46:54,931 --> 00:46:58,845
found beyond the backpack there
was no signs around the Highline
735
00:46:58,861 --> 00:47:03,127
Lake camp such as a struggle or
injury it simply looked like
736
00:47:03,142 --> 00:47:07,220
Gray left his campsite left his
camp set up and went elsewhere
737
00:47:07,392 --> 00:47:12,530
intending to come back, So
throughout this period, daily
738
00:47:12,650 --> 00:47:14,550
search operations were reported
in the media.
739
00:47:14,669 --> 00:47:19,371
The story gained attention in
both Idaho and Massachusetts due
740
00:47:19,372 --> 00:47:24,113
to his background. His wife,
Nancy Gray, and other family
741
00:47:24,152 --> 00:47:26,785
back home grew increasingly
concerned as each day passed
742
00:47:26,816 --> 00:47:31,910
without rescue. The
Massachusetts press reported
743
00:47:31,911 --> 00:47:35,878
that relatives feared not enough
was being done, though Idaho
744
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:39,535
authorities had indeed deployed
significant resources. And we
745
00:47:39,582 --> 00:47:39,816
always...
746
00:47:42,498 --> 00:47:45,981
Excuse me. We always mention
this. This comes up a lot in
747
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,766
searches that sometimes
families, you know, feel that
748
00:47:50,368 --> 00:47:54,547
not enough is being done when,
in fact, you know, the searchers
749
00:47:54,649 --> 00:47:59,774
are giving it their all. And a
lot of times the resources are
750
00:47:59,836 --> 00:48:03,586
stretched, you know, to the max
to help search.
751
00:48:04,196 --> 00:48:08,008
And in a remote place like this,
the fact that they had as many
752
00:48:08,102 --> 00:48:11,734
people as they did is pretty
amazing. Because everything
753
00:48:11,754 --> 00:48:16,497
we've looked at, this is one of
the most remote places you could
754
00:48:16,540 --> 00:48:21,247
hike in the lower 48, I would
say. I can't think of many more
755
00:48:21,286 --> 00:48:22,567
places that are more remote.
756
00:48:22,887 --> 00:48:25,864
JOE ERATO: Yeah. It's definitely
one of the most remote ones that
757
00:48:25,911 --> 00:48:27,387
we've covered for sure.
758
00:48:29,606 --> 00:48:32,575
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: So volunteer
interest was still high at this
759
00:48:32,637 --> 00:48:36,278
point. Many people offered to
help or donate. The Idaho County
760
00:48:36,356 --> 00:48:39,684
Sheriff's Office set up a fund
for donations to support the
761
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:40,622
costly search.
762
00:48:41,529 --> 00:48:45,692
The helicopter flight time alone
was about 890 dollars per hour
763
00:48:46,313 --> 00:48:51,020
so not cheap and that's your
best bet yeah i mean you can't
764
00:48:51,075 --> 00:48:54,903
cover that ground no that's if
you're a thousand people out
765
00:48:54,942 --> 00:48:56,747
there i feel like you wouldn't
be able to cover the ground
766
00:48:56,841 --> 00:49:00,255
that's your best bet and like we
i keep saying you know what he
767
00:49:00,256 --> 00:49:04,552
was dressed in makes aerial
searching really hard yeah yeah
768
00:49:04,645 --> 00:49:08,871
absolutely it'd be one thing if
it was like a deer hunter in
769
00:49:08,951 --> 00:49:11,912
Wisconsin You'D Be dressed in
blaze orange yes you would stand
770
00:49:11,974 --> 00:49:15,216
out like a sore thumb yep
absolutely especially after it
771
00:49:15,295 --> 00:49:21,365
snowed but yeah so by October
4th the general hunting season
772
00:49:21,366 --> 00:49:23,888
in the region opened bringing
even more hunters into the
773
00:49:23,889 --> 00:49:28,216
mountain mountains all of whom
were alerted to keep watch for
774
00:49:28,295 --> 00:49:34,560
any trace of Ron despite the
wide net of observers and
775
00:49:34,591 --> 00:49:39,034
searchers No further evidence
was discovered in the wilderness
776
00:49:39,116 --> 00:49:43,260
beyond the one backpack and the
earlier discarded towel.
777
00:49:43,784 --> 00:49:50,083
So, it's now mid-October 2008.
After approximately three weeks
778
00:49:50,163 --> 00:49:53,808
of intensive searching, the
official search was scaled back.
779
00:49:54,468 --> 00:49:57,652
By mid-October, heavy snow had
blanketed the higher elevations
780
00:49:57,714 --> 00:50:01,972
of the search area, effectively
closing off the wilderness until
781
00:50:02,074 --> 00:50:06,659
spring. The Idaho County
Sheriff's Office reluctantly
782
00:50:06,784 --> 00:50:10,222
suspended full-scale search
operations, though they
783
00:50:10,284 --> 00:50:14,644
continued to follow up on any
new leads that arose and
784
00:50:14,769 --> 00:50:15,409
maintained.
785
00:50:16,438 --> 00:50:22,222
Patrols on the periphery as
weather allowed so general
786
00:50:22,285 --> 00:50:26,050
hunting continued through
October so authorities kept in
787
00:50:26,066 --> 00:50:30,394
contact with hunters and asked
them to report anything unusual
788
00:50:30,995 --> 00:50:36,011
sadly no clues ever emerged the
search that had begun on
789
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,120
September 24th ultimately turned
up no signs of Ron's whereabouts
790
00:50:41,136 --> 00:50:48,660
so kind of crazy they found you
know as pack and that towel and
791
00:50:48,901 --> 00:50:57,446
nothing else so in the following
months and years since his
792
00:50:57,492 --> 00:51:00,571
disappearance the case has
remained open but with no fresh
793
00:51:00,649 --> 00:51:04,117
leads his family and friends
have dealt with the painful
794
00:51:04,399 --> 00:51:08,086
uncertainty his information was
entered into the national
795
00:51:08,117 --> 00:51:12,883
missing persons database name us
and the Idaho State missing
796
00:51:12,930 --> 00:51:17,763
persons clearinghouse but There
are no hits or reports of anyone
797
00:51:17,865 --> 00:51:18,285
seeing him.
798
00:51:18,826 --> 00:51:24,970
So periodically small scale
search efforts were mounted when
799
00:51:25,174 --> 00:51:28,877
snow melted. For example, local
volunteers and deputies did
800
00:51:29,135 --> 00:51:33,541
limited searches in the summer
of 2009 in accessible areas, but
801
00:51:33,572 --> 00:51:35,119
these yielded nothing
conclusive.
802
00:51:37,838 --> 00:51:43,775
So to this day, his case is
considered just a lost or
803
00:51:43,869 --> 00:51:44,994
injured missing person.
804
00:51:48,048 --> 00:51:50,532
Pretty wild, case.
805
00:51:54,115 --> 00:51:58,215
You know, the weather during the
search was pretty good early on.
806
00:51:58,661 --> 00:52:00,403
And then obviously the snow
moved in.
807
00:52:03,215 --> 00:52:07,293
You know, the lack of rain meant
scent tracking dogs. It was a
808
00:52:07,294 --> 00:52:10,387
little difficult for them, but
at least the crews did not have
809
00:52:10,403 --> 00:52:14,215
to contend with mud or
thunderstorms. Temps during the
810
00:52:14,216 --> 00:52:18,785
day were pretty moderate. But
likely dropped below freezing at
811
00:52:18,845 --> 00:52:21,869
night. So if he was injured or
exposed, that would be tough
812
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:24,830
though. He had a lot of, you
know, survival gear with them,
813
00:52:24,853 --> 00:52:26,431
but still that's a tough
environment to.
814
00:52:27,470 --> 00:52:33,916
JOE ERATO: It really comes down.
Do you think that, the radio
815
00:52:34,041 --> 00:52:35,119
signal that they heard was him?
816
00:52:37,291 --> 00:52:40,562
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I don't
know. I, I think it was. I mean,
817
00:52:40,563 --> 00:52:41,403
how many other people are out
there?
818
00:52:41,404 --> 00:52:42,665
JOE ERATO: I was going to say,
like, what else are they going
819
00:52:42,666 --> 00:52:45,009
to pick up? Yeah. Like, who's
out there? Especially if it
820
00:52:45,010 --> 00:52:48,766
wasn't even season yet. That's
where you get lucky. You can
821
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:50,993
have a lot of guys going out in
the woods that are hunting that
822
00:52:51,016 --> 00:52:54,915
can stumble upon that stuff.
Yeah. But, yeah, I don't know.
823
00:52:55,516 --> 00:52:57,360
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, so,
you know, the weather obviously
824
00:52:59,298 --> 00:53:03,110
deteriorated as the search went
on. So the snowfall and cold
825
00:53:03,141 --> 00:53:07,282
temperatures had an immediate
effect on the search. Fresh snow
826
00:53:07,376 --> 00:53:09,969
can actually help trackers spot
new footprints, but none.
827
00:53:11,499 --> 00:53:15,743
Belonging to Ron were found in
the area. The snow also
828
00:53:15,821 --> 00:53:19,930
increases the risk of
hypothermia for anyone lost. So,
829
00:53:20,946 --> 00:53:24,633
you know, if he were conscious
and mobile, he would likely have
830
00:53:24,672 --> 00:53:28,282
made a fire for warmth or
signal. No signal fires were
831
00:53:28,297 --> 00:53:29,313
spotted by aircraft.
832
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,938
And even though the storm came
in, it didn't completely halt
833
00:53:33,954 --> 00:53:39,547
the search, but it signaled the
approaching winter conditions
834
00:53:39,704 --> 00:53:44,783
after about two weeks in the
field with snow on the ground
835
00:53:44,822 --> 00:53:47,763
and no leads search managers
face the tough decision of when
836
00:53:47,904 --> 00:53:54,990
to scale back the active
operations so yeah this is a
837
00:53:55,013 --> 00:53:59,177
puzzling one because we've got a
situation here where we've got a
838
00:53:59,193 --> 00:54:03,162
very experienced well-trained
healthy individual who's done
839
00:54:03,163 --> 00:54:11,186
this before who is very well
prepared and It appears he left
840
00:54:11,226 --> 00:54:14,446
his gear at one of those
Outfitter campsites because he
841
00:54:14,447 --> 00:54:15,766
was going to go do like a day
hike.
842
00:54:16,669 --> 00:54:22,391
So you got to think how far is
he, you know, he knows what he's
843
00:54:22,446 --> 00:54:29,196
doing. And if his goal is to
come back to the campsite, how
844
00:54:29,352 --> 00:54:33,118
far is he going to really go in
that day hike?
845
00:54:33,774 --> 00:54:33,915
JOE ERATO: Yeah.
846
00:54:34,508 --> 00:54:37,555
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: So like you
think like, all right, in that
847
00:54:37,633 --> 00:54:41,388
rugged terrain, like how.
Possible is it to even travel
848
00:54:42,171 --> 00:54:42,892
five miles.
849
00:54:44,674 --> 00:54:46,395
JOE ERATO: And you assume he's
got some sort of injury.
850
00:54:47,074 --> 00:54:48,856
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Well, I'm
thinking at some point after he
851
00:54:48,875 --> 00:54:51,137
dropped his pack off, he injured
his knee.
852
00:54:51,138 --> 00:54:52,914
JOE ERATO: I'm wondering, did he
drop his pack off because he
853
00:54:52,953 --> 00:54:55,399
injured his knee and he
realized, I mean, if you've got
854
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:56,258
a huge pack.
855
00:54:56,578 --> 00:54:58,078
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Why wouldn't
he just stay at the campsite?
856
00:54:59,196 --> 00:55:00,875
JOE ERATO: Maybe he thought he
could make it to the butte.
857
00:55:01,953 --> 00:55:04,063
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I mean, I
feel like he's experienced
858
00:55:04,064 --> 00:55:08,172
enough. Like, if you're injured,
like you're at a campsite,
859
00:55:08,297 --> 00:55:10,422
there's a tent, get a big fire
going.
860
00:55:11,422 --> 00:55:13,016
JOE ERATO: And he's also a
Marine.
861
00:55:13,344 --> 00:55:13,547
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah.
862
00:55:13,906 --> 00:55:16,208
JOE ERATO: You might just be
like i'm gonna make it but i
863
00:55:16,209 --> 00:55:19,392
mean it's not like a tough dude
that's probably like no no
864
00:55:19,494 --> 00:55:21,978
business you know like the joke
they say like if a farmer shows
865
00:55:21,994 --> 00:55:26,462
up at a hospital yeah and the
doctor asks did he come here on
866
00:55:26,463 --> 00:55:29,783
his own or is he with his wife
and if he got there on his own
867
00:55:30,056 --> 00:55:34,103
then did he finish the job yeah
no he didn't finish the job he's
868
00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:37,556
doing okay this is a serious
emergency yeah like it's kind of
869
00:55:37,557 --> 00:55:40,525
one of those type of dudes i bet
that's just like I hurt my knee,
870
00:55:40,526 --> 00:55:41,197
but I'll make it.
871
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,987
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah. No, I
think I... If I were in that
872
00:55:45,047 --> 00:55:49,069
situation, and I made it to that
camp and I was injured, I
873
00:55:49,093 --> 00:55:49,632
wouldn't move.
874
00:55:51,952 --> 00:55:55,179
I could see why you might not
want to start a fire down in the
875
00:55:55,296 --> 00:55:59,640
thick wooded area. You might
risk a forest fire.
876
00:55:59,718 --> 00:56:01,921
JOE ERATO: Yeah, but next to
that lake, it looked like it was
877
00:56:02,030 --> 00:56:02,765
pretty wide open.
878
00:56:02,766 --> 00:56:04,171
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: If it's a
campsite, you've got to assume
879
00:56:04,202 --> 00:56:08,030
maybe they have a fire pit or
something there. Yeah. And even
880
00:56:08,031 --> 00:56:11,390
if they don't, you could make
it.
881
00:56:11,391 --> 00:56:12,280
JOE ERATO: Get some smoke going.
882
00:56:12,466 --> 00:56:13,747
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Get
something going. I mean, that's
883
00:56:13,748 --> 00:56:18,050
a perfect area to signal. Yeah,
you're right on the top of a
884
00:56:18,210 --> 00:56:21,456
mountain. Yeah, and you're at
5,000 feet. You've got a clear
885
00:56:21,511 --> 00:56:24,300
view of the horizon. You would
see search helicopters up in the
886
00:56:24,301 --> 00:56:24,761
distance.
887
00:56:26,097 --> 00:56:30,527
So I don't think he was injured
before he got to the camp. I
888
00:56:30,542 --> 00:56:34,527
think he dropped his gear and he
was going on a day hike and
889
00:56:34,730 --> 00:56:39,339
injured his knee because he said
in the transmission, I'm trying
890
00:56:39,340 --> 00:56:40,167
to get back to camp.
891
00:56:40,794 --> 00:56:41,074
JOE ERATO: Okay.
892
00:56:41,255 --> 00:56:42,736
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I wonder if
he was talking about that
893
00:56:42,775 --> 00:56:43,338
campsite.
894
00:56:43,617 --> 00:56:44,697
JOE ERATO: Good point. That
could be.
895
00:56:45,216 --> 00:56:48,041
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: So I'll go
through just a couple of the
896
00:56:48,060 --> 00:56:50,146
theories that law enforcement
had.
897
00:56:50,162 --> 00:56:51,607
JOE ERATO: All right, you do
that. I'll keep messing with the
898
00:56:51,623 --> 00:56:51,888
camera.
899
00:56:52,123 --> 00:56:53,006
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, what's
going on with it?
900
00:56:53,123 --> 00:56:55,287
JOE ERATO: It's just overheated.
Now it's not coming back on. But
901
00:56:55,288 --> 00:56:55,826
just keep going.
902
00:56:55,827 --> 00:56:58,545
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: It's fine.
All right. So the leading theory
903
00:56:58,670 --> 00:57:01,310
was obviously injury or medical
emergency.
904
00:57:03,404 --> 00:57:06,545
So this theory is that he
suffered an injury such as a
905
00:57:06,546 --> 00:57:09,904
knee injury mentioned in the
unconfirmed radio call or
906
00:57:10,298 --> 00:57:14,943
Another medical emergency while
alone. You know, so if he hurt
907
00:57:14,944 --> 00:57:18,205
his knee badly enough, he may
have been unable to hike out
908
00:57:18,206 --> 00:57:22,486
even or even move, potentially
leaving him stranded in a
909
00:57:22,572 --> 00:57:24,189
difficult to spot location.
910
00:57:25,689 --> 00:57:28,814
Searchers considered this
scenario very plausible, which
911
00:57:28,815 --> 00:57:32,596
is why they scoured likely
travel routes between his last
912
00:57:32,642 --> 00:57:36,908
campsite and the rendezvous
point. His wife also strongly
913
00:57:36,939 --> 00:57:42,961
believed he was hurt, citing his
knee. And that he was waiting
914
00:57:43,041 --> 00:57:47,586
for help to arrive. Despite
this, no shelter or makeshift
915
00:57:47,629 --> 00:57:50,371
campsite where an injured person
might hunker down was found.
916
00:57:52,809 --> 00:57:56,660
Another theory was
disorientation or psychological
917
00:57:56,707 --> 00:58:00,598
factors. So, you know, the
account from his friend about
918
00:58:00,645 --> 00:58:06,442
him reliving Vietnam experiences
raised the possibility that his
919
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:10,055
mindset in the woods might have
been altered. Or might have been
920
00:58:10,135 --> 00:58:11,275
altering his behavior.
921
00:58:12,137 --> 00:58:16,080
You know, as a combat veteran,
it's speculated he might have
922
00:58:16,842 --> 00:58:20,408
been pushing himself to survive
using old military instincts
923
00:58:20,447 --> 00:58:24,025
like Cho was saying earlier. For
example, intentionally spending
924
00:58:24,049 --> 00:58:27,432
nights out alone or moving
without a light to maintain
925
00:58:27,557 --> 00:58:27,900
stealth.
926
00:58:35,197 --> 00:58:39,282
This could have led him to stray
off planned routes. Or not
927
00:58:39,322 --> 00:58:43,542
return to his base camp as
expected. It's also possible in
928
00:58:43,543 --> 00:58:46,225
a State of confusion or
overconfidence he could have
929
00:58:46,245 --> 00:58:49,565
traveled further into the
wilderness than intended.
930
00:58:49,682 --> 00:58:55,081
However, this theory is hard to
confirm. It mainly provided
931
00:58:55,143 --> 00:58:58,612
context that his actions might
not have been entirely routine
932
00:58:59,034 --> 00:59:00,612
in the days before he
disappeared.
933
00:59:03,675 --> 00:59:07,771
So, you know, people also keep
hanging their hat on the
934
00:59:07,831 --> 00:59:13,416
extended solo hunt so another
angle considered was that he was
935
00:59:13,455 --> 00:59:18,483
perhaps chose to he perhaps
chose to extend his solo hunt
936
00:59:18,561 --> 00:59:22,342
longer than he told his friends
using the extra caches of food
937
00:59:23,053 --> 00:59:27,772
he stashed the fact that he he
you know put more supplies than
938
00:59:27,787 --> 00:59:30,319
necessary for a short trip and
left his backpack with
939
00:59:30,366 --> 00:59:34,881
non-essentials like his bank
book at an Outfitter camp
940
00:59:34,959 --> 00:59:37,622
suggests he might have planned
to Planned a side excursion.
941
00:59:38,144 --> 00:59:39,531
For example, a multi-day...
942
00:59:42,300 --> 00:59:46,163
You know stock of game or a
fishing trip to remote creek it
943
00:59:46,183 --> 00:59:48,948
didn't sound like that would be
out of the ordinary no so that
944
00:59:49,167 --> 00:59:50,769
sounds like it's something he
would just be like i'm gonna
945
00:59:50,808 --> 00:59:53,370
stay out here a bit longer yeah
and then you know expecting
946
00:59:53,409 --> 00:59:56,152
return to his pack in this
scenario something could have
947
00:59:56,238 --> 00:59:59,675
happened during that excursion
like an accident or getting lost
948
00:59:59,753 --> 01:00:04,269
that prevented his return so you
know the remote and rugged
949
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:08,066
nature of the cellway bitter
wilderness means a wrong turn
950
01:00:08,581 --> 01:00:12,154
turn could lead to a lone hunter
into impassable terrain.
951
01:00:13,255 --> 01:00:16,517
He was carrying a rifle and a
possible sidearm. If he
952
01:00:16,536 --> 01:00:20,865
encountered dangerous wildlife,
bears or mountain lions, he was
953
01:00:20,982 --> 01:00:24,685
armed, but an animal attack was
considered less likely since no
954
01:00:24,825 --> 01:00:26,646
sign of a struggle or blood was
found.
955
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:35,771
I think, you know, it's injury
and environmental hazards. So is
956
01:00:35,818 --> 01:00:38,083
the main theory. So the
wilderness where he vanished is
957
01:00:38,099 --> 01:00:39,740
characterized by steep ravines.
958
01:00:40,588 --> 01:00:45,830
Thick forests and swift rivers
one theory is he might have
959
01:00:45,849 --> 01:00:51,767
fallen into a canyon or crevasse
where his remains are hidden
960
01:00:51,830 --> 01:00:55,853
from view a fall could have been
fatal or left him incapacitated
961
01:00:57,814 --> 01:01:02,549
in a spot that aerial searchers
couldn't easily see you know
962
01:01:02,580 --> 01:01:07,377
like under a tree or at the
bottom of a cliff he could have
963
01:01:07,392 --> 01:01:11,894
also slipped into a river or a
creek so, if he had drowned in
964
01:01:11,994 --> 01:01:15,458
say the Selway River or a
tributary, his body might've
965
01:01:15,478 --> 01:01:16,556
been carried downstream.
966
01:01:17,318 --> 01:01:20,798
Search teams did check the water
areas, but did not find evidence
967
01:01:21,626 --> 01:01:23,587
in the immediate search area.
968
01:01:25,548 --> 01:01:28,767
So people, you know, were
throughout this whole thing,
969
01:01:30,158 --> 01:01:35,439
people kept talking about his
survival training and, you know,
970
01:01:35,470 --> 01:01:38,486
all that stuff. And it led to a
lot of speculation of how long
971
01:01:38,517 --> 01:01:41,304
do you think? He could survive
out here, you know, because
972
01:01:41,345 --> 01:01:45,146
searchers, you know, kept hope
alive for a while that they were
973
01:01:45,165 --> 01:01:45,744
going to find him.
974
01:01:46,427 --> 01:01:49,583
So, you know, many people who
knew him felt that if anyone
975
01:01:49,622 --> 01:01:53,787
could survive such an ordeal, it
was him. He was, like I said
976
01:01:53,849 --> 01:01:59,052
earlier, regarded as a very
capable outdoorsman. He had
977
01:01:59,146 --> 01:02:02,052
shelter gear, fishing equipment,
firearms, and knowledge of
978
01:02:02,083 --> 01:02:05,083
edible plants and wildlife.
And...
979
01:02:05,272 --> 01:02:07,575
This led people to think that
maybe he was intentionally
980
01:02:07,634 --> 01:02:11,017
hunkering down and waiting for
rescue or maybe trying to
981
01:02:11,099 --> 01:02:17,728
self-rescue at a slow pace due
to injury. But unfortunately, as
982
01:02:17,767 --> 01:02:21,384
the days turned into weeks and
the lack of any signal from him,
983
01:02:21,415 --> 01:02:26,415
no fires, no flare, no further
radio contact, and the onset of
984
01:02:26,446 --> 01:02:28,931
winter made this increasingly
doubtful.
985
01:02:31,056 --> 01:02:34,621
You know, if he had been
conscious and able, he likely
986
01:02:34,641 --> 01:02:37,583
would have made some attempt to
indicate his presence to the
987
01:02:37,644 --> 01:02:41,548
searchers. So the complete
silence suggests that either he
988
01:02:41,606 --> 01:02:46,056
was incapacitated or no longer
alive during the search. So this
989
01:02:46,235 --> 01:02:51,790
is also an interesting, so
coupled with him injuring his
990
01:02:51,899 --> 01:02:59,228
knee, so I wonder if he, so he
left his pack at that lake
991
01:02:59,306 --> 01:03:02,243
campsite, and then he went for a
day hike.
992
01:03:02,660 --> 01:03:05,641
Or he went for like a couple day
excursion, maybe at a day pack
993
01:03:05,881 --> 01:03:09,461
that he carried some gear with,
not his big hundred pound pack.
994
01:03:10,879 --> 01:03:14,559
He gets deep in there, maybe he
goes in a day, injures his knee,
995
01:03:15,426 --> 01:03:19,223
and he's like, all right. He
sends the radio message, I'm
996
01:03:19,239 --> 01:03:20,004
heading back to camp.
997
01:03:21,208 --> 01:03:25,645
Something happens from that
point to when he tries to get
998
01:03:25,661 --> 01:03:29,879
back to camp. So he's injured,
but still mobile. And maybe at
999
01:03:29,942 --> 01:03:39,269
this point he falls. And becomes
incapacitated because the theory
1000
01:03:39,351 --> 01:03:42,515
makes a good point of if he was
still alive with his training,
1001
01:03:42,531 --> 01:03:48,336
he would have tried to signal
them in some way, like a fire or
1002
01:03:48,337 --> 01:03:49,781
a signal.
1003
01:03:49,922 --> 01:03:50,968
JOE ERATO: And he had a radio.
1004
01:03:51,109 --> 01:03:51,890
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: And he had a
radio.
1005
01:03:52,125 --> 01:03:54,422
JOE ERATO: So as they're getting
closer to that area, they should
1006
01:03:54,423 --> 01:03:57,406
be able to pick up the
transmissions.
1007
01:03:57,734 --> 01:04:01,862
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, so I
wonder if... Something happened
1008
01:04:01,863 --> 01:04:04,944
to him after that radio
transmission where he either
1009
01:04:05,365 --> 01:04:10,893
sadly passed away or was to the
point where he was unable to
1010
01:04:10,987 --> 01:04:15,393
make any kind of communication
with searchers because it
1011
01:04:15,416 --> 01:04:20,604
doesn't make sense that if so if
you think like he injured his
1012
01:04:20,666 --> 01:04:22,744
knee you think on the radio
transmission he would say
1013
01:04:22,838 --> 01:04:28,333
something like i've injured my
knee i can't move yeah He didn't
1014
01:04:28,373 --> 01:04:28,693
say that.
1015
01:04:28,694 --> 01:04:31,137
He said, I'm heading back to
camp, which makes me think that
1016
01:04:31,138 --> 01:04:32,301
he was still mobile.
1017
01:04:33,461 --> 01:04:35,484
JOE ERATO: Yeah, but that's
where I come in like tough guy,
1018
01:04:36,570 --> 01:04:40,911
Ex-Marine, like cop. Like, I
hurt my knee, I'm heading back
1019
01:04:40,912 --> 01:04:43,334
to camp? Yeah. Is that like his
way of saying, like, hey, it
1020
01:04:43,335 --> 01:04:45,094
might be pretty bad, but he's
not going to say that?
1021
01:04:46,078 --> 01:04:46,836
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Maybe. I
don't know.
1022
01:04:46,957 --> 01:04:48,141
JOE ERATO: I'm just throwing it
out there. Yeah.
1023
01:04:48,938 --> 01:04:51,961
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I mean, who
knows? Could be. But I think
1024
01:04:52,305 --> 01:04:55,383
something happened to him after
that transmission, something
1025
01:04:55,524 --> 01:05:01,414
serious. Like, he, you know,
with the injured knee, he wasn't
1026
01:05:01,430 --> 01:05:05,430
very, you know, he's probably
not focused on where he's
1027
01:05:05,508 --> 01:05:10,017
walking as much. And Based on
all of our descriptions of this
1028
01:05:10,076 --> 01:05:13,720
terrain, it's very rugged. He
could have easily slipped and
1029
01:05:13,779 --> 01:05:14,181
fallen.
1030
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:15,220
JOE ERATO: Yeah.
1031
01:05:17,099 --> 01:05:18,568
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: So, I don't
know. What's your theory?
1032
01:05:19,208 --> 01:05:22,607
JOE ERATO: I just feel like
there was some sort of injury or
1033
01:05:22,630 --> 01:05:23,787
he got turned around.
1034
01:05:24,208 --> 01:05:24,396
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah.
1035
01:05:25,724 --> 01:05:27,787
JOE ERATO: Which I think is
highly unlikely, but it can
1036
01:05:27,849 --> 01:05:28,568
still happen.
1037
01:05:29,271 --> 01:05:29,412
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah.
1038
01:05:29,802 --> 01:05:31,162
JOE ERATO: Because, I mean,
what's the alternative?
1039
01:05:33,380 --> 01:05:37,382
He didn't make it. So, like,
what stopped him? With all the
1040
01:05:37,402 --> 01:05:39,646
stuff he had, all his
experience, equipment, all of
1041
01:05:39,647 --> 01:05:39,765
it.
1042
01:05:40,566 --> 01:05:45,329
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I think a
catastrophic accident.
1043
01:05:45,368 --> 01:05:48,454
JOE ERATO: Like wrong step, took
a tumble off a cliff, injured
1044
01:05:48,493 --> 01:05:50,618
badly enough he can't move, and
then you just succumb to the
1045
01:05:50,657 --> 01:05:51,032
elements?
1046
01:05:51,314 --> 01:05:55,868
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, either
killed in the fall or during the
1047
01:05:55,915 --> 01:06:00,384
fall, all of his gear goes
flying in every direction. And
1048
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,353
he's busted up enough that he
can't move at that point. He
1049
01:06:04,384 --> 01:06:09,157
might still be alive, but... Now
he can't, you know, he can't
1050
01:06:09,196 --> 01:06:10,899
make a call on his radio. He
can't.
1051
01:06:11,661 --> 01:06:14,001
JOE ERATO: No, I'm with you on
that one. I think that makes the
1052
01:06:14,020 --> 01:06:14,501
most sense.
1053
01:06:14,626 --> 01:06:16,985
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I think that
radio transmission was him. I
1054
01:06:17,008 --> 01:06:18,165
think he was still mobile.
1055
01:06:19,587 --> 01:06:20,946
JOE ERATO: Yeah, what else are
you going to, like, randomly
1056
01:06:21,008 --> 01:06:23,555
pick up out there that's
relevant to what you're doing?
1057
01:06:23,977 --> 01:06:25,649
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, and
hunting season hadn't started
1058
01:06:25,696 --> 01:06:29,212
yet, so it wasn't like there was
a ton of hunters out there. And
1059
01:06:29,243 --> 01:06:32,805
like you said, I mean, this is
so remote. It's so remote. How
1060
01:06:32,868 --> 01:06:37,935
many people were out? In the
100-mile radius of him during
1061
01:06:37,955 --> 01:06:38,435
this time.
1062
01:06:38,475 --> 01:06:40,074
JOE ERATO: I mean, 100-mile
radius.
1063
01:06:40,355 --> 01:06:44,398
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: 50, let's
say 25-mile radius.
1064
01:06:44,399 --> 01:06:47,273
JOE ERATO: 25? I don't even know
what distances are here.
1065
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,117
Oh, everything's in kilometers
now. What's happening?
1066
01:06:53,383 --> 01:06:56,023
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Switch the,
if you click it on the bottom,
1067
01:06:56,039 --> 01:06:56,586
it might go to.
1068
01:06:57,539 --> 01:06:57,852
JOE ERATO: Oh, yeah.
1069
01:06:58,617 --> 01:06:59,898
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Maybe, maybe
not. Nope.
1070
01:07:02,336 --> 01:07:03,820
JOE ERATO: Okay, switch it to
miles.
1071
01:07:05,038 --> 01:07:10,023
Nautical miles yeah right there
miles was down there it was yeah
1072
01:07:10,445 --> 01:07:18,968
go down more there you are it's
like 30 30 miles to like a city
1073
01:07:19,554 --> 01:07:22,774
but that's 30 miles through what
we've been looking at i'm just
1074
01:07:22,814 --> 01:07:26,014
saying like that's crazy
probably within like let's say
1075
01:07:26,075 --> 01:07:29,875
20 mile radius of wherever he
was when that radio and
1076
01:07:29,876 --> 01:07:33,536
transmission was sent probably
not another person yeah well
1077
01:07:33,739 --> 01:07:37,739
just because of the train like
yeah if you're at the top of a
1078
01:07:37,778 --> 01:07:40,981
mountain you can get farther but
odds are he wasn't up at the top
1079
01:07:40,997 --> 01:07:44,262
of a mountain and you got to
think okay.
1080
01:07:44,372 --> 01:07:49,170
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: So radio
transmission you know If he's
1081
01:07:49,230 --> 01:07:51,893
down in one of the valleys, it's
going to be harder to pick up
1082
01:07:51,913 --> 01:07:56,336
that transmission. So you got to
assume he's at a higher
1083
01:07:56,399 --> 01:08:01,981
elevation when he sends that
transmission, which would lead
1084
01:08:02,020 --> 01:08:04,848
to my theory that after he sent
that, he had some kind of
1085
01:08:05,723 --> 01:08:11,051
catastrophic injury, like
accident and fell.
1086
01:08:15,692 --> 01:08:19,664
Yeah, I think. I think that's
the most likely. Obviously,
1087
01:08:19,825 --> 01:08:21,666
animal attack is very rare.
1088
01:08:22,707 --> 01:08:24,008
JOE ERATO: I wouldn't think
animal attack.
1089
01:08:24,387 --> 01:08:27,512
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, he was
armed. Yeah. And, I mean, you
1090
01:08:27,513 --> 01:08:31,832
have mountain lions and black
bears, but, you know, he had a
1091
01:08:31,833 --> 01:08:36,200
rifle, probably a sidearm. And,
obviously, as an Ex-Marine, he's
1092
01:08:36,981 --> 01:08:38,621
trained in how to use those
weapons.
1093
01:08:41,559 --> 01:08:43,871
JOE ERATO: Yeah, I'm thinking he
just got lost.
1094
01:08:44,012 --> 01:08:47,293
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: I mean, the
other possibility is something.
1095
01:08:48,658 --> 01:08:52,418
You know, his friends made the
comment about that weird episode
1096
01:08:52,419 --> 01:08:55,238
he had that one night. I mean,
there's a chance.
1097
01:08:55,239 --> 01:08:57,461
JOE ERATO: Oh, like the accident
could have came as a result of
1098
01:08:57,476 --> 01:08:58,758
like a flashback or something?
1099
01:08:58,797 --> 01:09:01,141
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, maybe
something happened.
1100
01:09:02,461 --> 01:09:04,164
JOE ERATO: That might be very
likely.
1101
01:09:05,062 --> 01:09:06,969
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Maybe he got
lost and then that triggered
1102
01:09:07,062 --> 01:09:12,641
something and he had some kind
of breakdown or something. Like
1103
01:09:12,937 --> 01:09:17,823
something from his past military
experience came out. That led to
1104
01:09:17,883 --> 01:09:21,208
his disappearance. I have no
evidence of that. I'm just...
1105
01:09:22,048 --> 01:09:23,427
JOE ERATO: I just randomly found
my way back.
1106
01:09:26,708 --> 01:09:28,614
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: It's like a
perfect area for a campsite.
1107
01:09:28,911 --> 01:09:33,435
JOE ERATO: Yeah, it is. I went
through the historical just to
1108
01:09:33,481 --> 01:09:36,606
see if I could find like a
square tent somewhere. And I'm
1109
01:09:36,622 --> 01:09:39,981
not seeing anything that looks
like it's been inhabited at all.
1110
01:09:40,106 --> 01:09:41,872
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: That would
be a perfect spot to like...
1111
01:09:42,628 --> 01:09:47,172
Send up a signal oh yeah look at
this it's not heavily forested
1112
01:09:47,173 --> 01:09:49,996
so you don't have to worry about
starting a giant fire yeah you
1113
01:09:49,997 --> 01:09:51,613
can see the smoke from
everywhere it's one of the
1114
01:09:51,636 --> 01:09:54,261
higher points in the area even
if you didn't want to start a
1115
01:09:54,277 --> 01:09:57,066
fire you could get like a stick
and put like a bright colored
1116
01:09:57,199 --> 01:10:00,129
shirt on it like a flag and just
yeah put it on the top of the
1117
01:10:00,130 --> 01:10:05,254
ridge make SOS out of rocks like
yeah you know anything i have no
1118
01:10:05,394 --> 01:10:09,410
doubt that anything in threes
that's why i would like i would
1119
01:10:09,519 --> 01:10:10,394
stay at that spot.
1120
01:10:10,816 --> 01:10:10,957
Yep.
1121
01:10:11,832 --> 01:10:13,334
JOE ERATO: No, that's a
recommendation. Always stay
1122
01:10:13,373 --> 01:10:13,834
where you are.
1123
01:10:13,995 --> 01:10:15,797
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Problem is,
if there's no campsite there,
1124
01:10:15,836 --> 01:10:20,063
that's pretty exposed. Yeah. So,
you know, if you're worried
1125
01:10:20,079 --> 01:10:25,008
about weather coming in, I mean,
there's not a lot of, there's
1126
01:10:25,063 --> 01:10:26,266
nowhere really to take shelter.
1127
01:10:27,993 --> 01:10:34,133
JOE ERATO: Well, I can look back
around 2008.
1128
01:10:34,149 --> 01:10:35,711
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: That's wild.
They have.
1129
01:10:35,743 --> 01:10:37,290
JOE ERATO: Look how not good it
is.
1130
01:10:38,055 --> 01:10:38,243
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah.
1131
01:10:39,274 --> 01:10:40,727
JOE ERATO: Yeah, I mean, it was
still pretty barren.
1132
01:10:41,937 --> 01:10:43,298
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah, you're
not going to get a lot of
1133
01:10:43,318 --> 01:10:49,625
shelter from the elements there.
But if the weather is good and
1134
01:10:49,664 --> 01:10:53,125
all you're dealing with is, you
know, low temps and you have the
1135
01:10:53,164 --> 01:10:53,930
gear that he had.
1136
01:10:54,649 --> 01:10:57,930
JOE ERATO: Yeah.
1137
01:10:57,931 --> 01:10:58,555
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: That looks
brutal.
1138
01:10:59,180 --> 01:11:00,711
JOE ERATO: Yeah, just all the
snow.
1139
01:11:05,383 --> 01:11:08,289
Yeah, I don't know. I think it's
elements, unfortunately.
1140
01:11:08,524 --> 01:11:08,680
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Yeah.
1141
01:11:10,904 --> 01:11:13,908
JOE ERATO: So. All right. Yeah,
I think we want all of your
1142
01:11:13,947 --> 01:11:16,131
opinions. But thanks again for
tuning into our show. We
1143
01:11:16,150 --> 01:11:18,693
appreciate you all for listening
and sharing Locations Unknown
1144
01:11:18,775 --> 01:11:19,830
with your friends and family.
1145
01:11:20,057 --> 01:11:21,517
MIKE VAN DE BOGERT: Promise I'll
be healthy next week.
1146
01:11:21,635 --> 01:11:23,939
JOE ERATO: Probably not. Be sure
to like and follow us on
1147
01:11:23,978 --> 01:11:26,142
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
and YouTube, where you can find
1148
01:11:26,182 --> 01:11:29,447
videos of each episode, even
though my camera just went out.
1149
01:11:29,822 --> 01:11:31,385
I'm going to have to, like,
warranty that thing or
1150
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,994
something. It's not turning back
on. Also, if you'd like to
1151
01:11:35,025 --> 01:11:37,353
support the show monetarily, you
can visit our Facebook store or
1152
01:11:37,369 --> 01:11:39,525
buy some cool, sweet merch.
1153
01:11:40,092 --> 01:11:43,933
Not swag. Additionally, you can
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1154
01:11:44,773 --> 01:11:48,133
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1155
01:11:48,195 --> 01:11:51,476
events and additional shows for
paid customers only. Lastly,
1156
01:11:51,898 --> 01:11:54,078
when enjoying the beauty of
nature, whether backpacking,
1157
01:11:54,117 --> 01:11:57,617
camping, or simply taking a
walk, always remember to leave
1158
01:11:57,898 --> 01:12:01,180
no trace. Thanks, and we will
see you all next time.