What Bitcoin Makes Possible | Frank Corva

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There's a book I'm reading right now where he has a very, very simple way of explaining love.
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Everything is love. It already exists. Love is like sunlight. We're either allowing clouds to
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block it or purposely creating those clouds in our life to block it. The love comes through
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automatically. That's our natural state. And I agree with that. I really believe this. I'm not
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just saying it because I read it in a book. So think about the clouds that are in the way. Are
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Are you putting those clouds there?
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Welcome to Live with Bitcoin, where we explore the human side of Bitcoin through personal transformations and life stories.
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I'm your host Ivy Lumi. Thank you for tuning in.
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If you enjoy these conversations and would like to support our mission of shining light on the human side of Bitcoin,
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remember to subscribe, leave a comment or send a few stats from the link in the description.
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Today we have a very special guest, Frank Corva, joining Live with Bitcoin for the first time.
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Frank and I first came across in the conference team and then had our first chance to have a real conversation a couple years back at Bitcoin Mina, I believe.
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And what has always stood out for me since then is Frank's perspective wasn't solely formed from Bitcoin.
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And it's a combination of live experience.
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And long before covering Bitcoin adoption around the world for Forbes and serving as Bitcoin magazine's first White House correspondent,
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Frank was already exploring people, culture and the systems that shapes our lives.
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He's lived in the Venezuelan burial. Is that how you pronounce it?
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Correctly.
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Barrio, if we're going to be super fancy about it.
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Worked in rural Ghana and taught academic writing to recent immigrants in New York City.
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Spent years in music management, managing brands and managing tours, artists, and later found himself covering politics at the highest level in D.C.
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And after spending years observing how people navigate through opportunities, adversity, freedom, and change across very, very different environments, he's cooking on something that's even more.
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And it's more than ever.
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And one thing I really do appreciate about Frank's story is that Bitcoin doesn't seem to be the beginning of it.
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It feels more like one chapter in a much larger exploration of people and how they live.
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So journalism, education, travel, countless conversations.
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Frank has been in the front row seats to the ways individual communities and societies attempt to build their better future for themselves.
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So today we'll have the opportunity to explore what those experiments taught him about human nature, what Bitcoin has revealed about people, and how responsibility, hope, freedom, and meaningful change show up in our lives.
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Frank, welcome to Live with Bitcoin.
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That was the kindest and nicest introduction I have ever been given or ever had said about me for a podcast. So thank you so much. I appreciate that.
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Before we delve into the real conversation, I also wanted to say thank you for being such an ally from the beginning of my music journey as Ivy Lumi.
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I remember showing you the demos and you were giving me feedbacks and very supportive and warming words that supported me to this day and beyond.
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Thank you, Frank, for all of your kind words and help there too.
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The pleasure is all mine. I've worked with many artists in my day and I've been going to music.
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and I was at a show last night in New York.
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I've been going to shows and concerts for,
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I don't even want to say,
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I don't want people to be able to figure out my age,
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but for more than two decades now,
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you have something in you that needs to be expressed
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and you're doing it through your music
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and you're doing it through this podcast as well.
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And I'm a big proponent of what you're doing
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and I believe that the universe will come to your aid
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in the process of your doing it.
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So thank you for, again,
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for having me be a part of this journey with you.
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Amazing, amazing.
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Well, keep building the world that we all wish to see,
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right? And your story is very much along this line and documenting this process for yourself
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and for others. And before Bitcoin, there was already a lot of life for you. And you've lived
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in Venezuelan, Berlin. Beautiful. You got it. Yeah. You've worked in rural Ghana and taught
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immigrants in New York, covered politics in Washington, and now spending your days around
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Bitcoiners. One thing that I really love about your story is that Bitcoin is not just the
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beginning of it or the centerpiece of it, it really comes as one element, one chapter in a
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much bigger exploration. So looking back with every experience you've had now and all of the spaces
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you've engaged with, which are those experiences that have shaped you the most? That's a fantastic
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question. As I get older, to be honest, some of those experiences don't even feel real. It just
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feels like a dream from a former life or something like that I also try to practice staying in the present as much as possible So it hard to tell which experiences shaped me the most and how but there are beautiful moments
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and memories that come to mind sometimes enough to bring me to tears. Some of those are in that
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barrio that I lived in. And for those who are unfamiliar with this term, a barrio is a term for
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a lower income neighborhood in Latin America, in any Latin American country, not just Venezuela.
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So I worked. I not only lived in that barrio, but I taught there. And I didn't just randomly show up in like a poor Latin American neighborhood. I have family that in the 1980s did some work in that neighborhood with a food cooperative and a school system there called Fe y Alegría. That means faith and happiness.
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And my cousin, it's amazing, I had an aunt and an uncle, they moved down to Venezuela at first with three kids, had a fourth child down there.
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But they had kids from ages zero to, I think, 11.
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And, you know, living in a tin shack and doing really great work with the community in the 1980s, one of those cousins, one of their children, ended up marrying a girl from that barrio, became the principal of that school there.
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And I ended up teaching there.
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So all of those experiences were amazing because those neighborhoods you often can't just walk into.
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You sort of have to have an invitation from the community and the respect of the community.
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So it was a tremendous privilege to be there and to feel the depths of the way that the members of that community supported one another.
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It's truly beautiful and almost unlike anything else I've ever experienced.
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Probably the most comparable thing was living in a rural region of Ghana.
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But those moments are truly special because I think one of the things you have to do is really try to strip away all of your own conditioning, your preconceived notions, and just try to be present to people and to learn from them and to harmonize with them.
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So to be to be a part of their community, obviously not to dictate what goes on in that community.
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That would just be silly. Not to judge what goes on in the community, not to do anything other than to be present to them and to learn from them.
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And honestly, in Venezuela, to dance with them, we would just on Saturday nights or something, we would sit on the porch in some of these places.
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Someone would put on some music. We would be dancing in the streets or dancing in their living room.
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Really just absolutely gorgeous moments.
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You know, not all of my experiences in traveling revolved around living in places like rural Africa or inner city Venezuela, places where people don't have as many resources.
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I lived in Italy for a while where I studied the arts.
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I lived in Japan for a little while where I taught at different universities and played in their underground music scene.
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So it's not just not just sort of humanitarian centered work.
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It's a sort of joy of life.
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Joie de vivre.
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I don't speak French.
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So pardon me if I pronounce that wrong.
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But I don't know.
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So there's just a there's there's I guess I march in some ways to my own rhythm.
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Sometimes that rhythm brings me into an underground club in the heart of Tokyo.
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Sometimes it brings me into the White House press room.
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And I just try to stay grateful along the way and try to make the best of it as we go.
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Yeah, totally. And over time, I've realized that's really the best approach we can take to life because we're we're oftentimes throwing situations.
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And sometimes we throw ourselves into situations.
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And the best we can do is to adapt because we're already there.
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And to go to where we want to go from where we are, then the direction is forward and it's up to us to see which direction is forward and how do we get there.
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And to have that open mindedness, opening ourselves up for side quests, doing our best to absorb the world around us and ourselves is truly, truly a special process.
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And you're someone who lived in from one place to another, from one culture to another.
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It's totally different and it's all about perspective.
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So in this process of living in so many places and interacted with so many different kinds of people, Bitcoiners or not, how have your thoughts around opportunities and success changed?
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That's a great, that's a really good question.
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And also something came to mind as you were speaking.
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I don't know why it came to mind, this particular thing.
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But I remember just a quick fun memory I wanted to add to that list of memories I was just sharing was being in the backseat of a cab with you in Hong Kong last year at a conference and you telling me about your music.
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I remember in that moment just being like, I have this thought frequently.
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There are plenty of, I don't have regrets, but there are plenty of things that I look
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back on and say, hey, maybe I could have done that differently.
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But then I also think about where everything in life has led me.
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And sometimes it leads me to the backseat of a cab with someone like yourself talking
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about music.
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And I'm like, nope, everything's fine.
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It's all good.
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So, and we're just enjoying the ride.
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Thank you for sharing.
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Definitely.
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In the end, I don't know about you.
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Like I'm very deterministic in that regard.
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So I always tell myself that everything happens for a reason for the better.
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And even though I cannot see it right now, and I just need to believe it and act as such.
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That's what we're together for.
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Thank you for sharing.
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These are moments that I cherish dearly as a musician.
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And the question I had was, after living in these different places,
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looking at and interviewing so many different kinds of people, different walks of life,
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How have your assumptions or thoughts around opportunity, like how do you think about opportunity and success differently if it did change?
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Yeah it a great question Actually as I was thinking about that like the amount even just the amount of people I interviewed or the people I spent time with around the world it brings tears to my eyes because it such an immense privilege My father passed away some years ago I used to say to him
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when am I going to be normal? When am I not going to want to pick up and leave to go to a different
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country or do this or take on some new hobby when in reality I should be focusing on a job and
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paying bills or something like that, something adultish. He would say, you've made the world
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your home. And that always stuck with me. He's like, you have people around the world
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who really care about you and you care about them. And he's like, don't underestimate that.
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And he was a homebody, my father. So it was not coming from someone who had lived that exact sort
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of life or whatever. I think you did touch on one point. I'll get to the point about success
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in a second. But I think also what I have noticed is that, and I noticed this a lot in the last two
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years, I traveled a lot in 2025. And it's that while people are different, I think there are some
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fundamental things about people that are all the same everywhere. And I think most people want a
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chance at success. Everyone wants love. On some level, everybody wants to be a part of a community
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and everybody wants to be heard. They want their voice to be heard. And everybody does have something
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to say and everybody does have their own genius. I believe in all of those things fundamentally.
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And as an educator, I wrote my thesis. I did a master's degree in teaching English to speakers
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of other languages and applied linguistics. And that was here in New York, I did that.
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And in the process of getting that degree, I learned that the root of the word education
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comes from the Latin word educare. And that doesn't mean to put in, it means to educe,
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which means to bring out. So when we're educating, we're bringing out the genius in people.
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And that's what I feel like my role is as a writer and just as a traveler, somebody who's,
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you know, jet setting around the planet, living with different people of different cultures,
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interacting with them constantly. Because I think when, if you can be present to someone
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and they sense that the person sitting in front of them is not judgmental, that they have a genuine
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interest in them, that they're looking for the common ground that you have with them,
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they don't just want to do small talk, they want to get into some substance.
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I think most people will react to that by sharing something very genuine about themselves.
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And that can be very affirming. It took me a long time to get to such a place because I did look at
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things a little bit more through this culture is like this and this culture is like that. And I
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still see that and that's fine you have to keep those things in mind especially for surface level
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reasons if there's a certain thing a culture does you should respect that while you're in the culture
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so that's more of the surface level stuff but at the end of the day there's someone that comes to
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mind actually i have to share this guy his name is tanabe san tanabe san san is the japanese
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honorific after his name he played rhythm guitar in a band that i put together when i lived in
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Japan. I had a nine piece band there and we recorded some music in 2015 and 16. Yeah, it was
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a lot of fun. It's that's a whole different podcast and a different story. But he Tanabe-san was this
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guy who did not speak very good English and my Japanese never got very good. When I see Tanabe-san
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still, I saw him after Hong Kong last year. I went to Japan for a few days and had dinner. I had
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dinner with him and his family, his daughter and everything. We don't we don't speak the same
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language like I do the best I can in Japanese. He does the best he can in English, but it's not
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there, but we communicate. We exist on the same frequency. We laugh at the same things. We have a
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similar taste in music. So when you bring up the name of a band, we're both this feeling of like
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a sigh of like, oh, that band is the best. Like, I love that band sort of thing. And that's the
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thing that I'm constantly, I think, looking for. It's not that you connect deeply with every person
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you meet. You connect on various levels, depending on the frequency that person is operating on,
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depending on many different variables.
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And also on that note,
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it's not that one frequency is better than the next.
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It's just where you are in life.
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And sometimes you tend to sort of meet somebody else
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who feels like they're almost
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in that exact same sort of place.
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But the biggest thing I think people want
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and they need is just space.
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It's space to say what they really feel about something.
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And it's space to express themselves
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because I think we were just talking about this
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a little bit off camera.
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I went through in my 20s,
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like really, really nasty depressive bouts,
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like really, really, really nasty depressive bouts,
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It's like hospitalized for depression and stuff.
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And I learned in that time, in that period, that the opposite of depression is not joy,
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it's expression.
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Even if you look at the prefix of the word, D versus X.
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So you have expression versus depression.
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And I realized during a lot of those years, I was doing a whole bunch of things that I
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thought I should do.
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And I don't like that word should, or that people were telling me to do, or that I had
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been trained to do.
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And it took me a lot of time to unlearn that.
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I don't think I even fully unlearned it until, unfortunately, it took my father passing and me.
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I moved to Japan shortly after my father passed just to have some space and just to go into a different place to sort of decompress and process it.
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And we should we ideally should find ourselves in places where we're free to express ourselves.
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And no matter what where we are, wherever we are in the world, we should be giving people that space or holding that space for people to share what they want to share.
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One of the things I used to do for Bitcoin Magazine that I truly loved was the Live Desk.
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And we had people, we would have people from all over the world on the Live Desk with us.
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What I loved about it was everyone got to have this really cool moment where they speaking to whatever it was tens of thousands of people who are watching or hundreds of thousands of people who are watching And I liked not only the moment where I got to like help them offer them a question that they wanted to speak about but also you know a question that they wanted to respond to but also to speak with them beforehand to say hey like chill out
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Like this is an opportunity, obviously, to speak to a lot of people, but just talk to me.
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Just say what's, speak from your heart.
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Just talk to me and tell me what's on your mind and share it.
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And it's funny, you would very quickly see people start to open up. And it's also it's a matter of how we react to people. If they're saying something and it's from the heart, we should be nodding along. We should be encouraging them to keep talking about these things.
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And I think that these things are really, really tough because especially in the age of phones distracting us and everything else distract, whatever, all this kind of stuff to really, really be present to people and to listen to them, to leave our own thoughts about whatever their topic they're talking about by the sidelines for a minute.
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We'll have an opportunity to share our thoughts.
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Ideally, we do that in a respectful way.
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I think it's really, really important because oftentimes I think people want to feel respect.
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They want to feel loved.
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They want to feel heard.
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And if you give them some space to do that, all of a sudden, the dynamic changes, the air around the situation changes. And I have not noticed that that's any different, whether you're in rural Ghana, inner city of Venezuela, top of a building in Japan, whatever that is, it seems to be the same for most people.
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So it's probably my biggest takeaway. And it's, it's one of the main principles that I try to apply, whether I'm on the live desk for Bitcoin magazine, or interviewing somebody for Fetty, where I work now, or doing my own podcast. It's just saying, hey, like, I'm here to listen. I'm here to learn from you. I'm here to listen to you. And I'm here to sort of respect what you have to bring to the conversation.
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conversation. Yeah, definitely. That takes us to have less ego. That takes us to have almost no
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ego. And I used to say that this is something that worked for me. I've realized that the distance
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between you and me, like any individual, I feel like the distance between you and me is the sum
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of our ego. That's really good. That's what I feel like, just interacting with everybody. Right now,
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the society doesn't really encourage authentic behaviors. If you look at the society right now,
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where we're really like authenticity is really not encouraged. Like that's problem number one
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on the grand scheme of things. And the problem number two is how to what extent individuals
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feel pressured from externalities or trauma or depression to stop themselves expressing themselves.
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And either that's due to fear of rejection, fear of being wrong. And oftentimes that's like ego,
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related or want to be right and want to win this fight and that's like and that's also a
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framework of separation so so the fact if we open the space for people to to just be themselves and
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allow ourselves be ourselves and allow others to be others and then if we find alignment we get
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together if we don't we part ways and and it's really that simple sometimes all the time not
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even sometimes. I think all the time. Yeah, it really is that simple. And there's nothing wrong
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with just saying, hey, like, I don't think that person is going to be my best friend, or I may not
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have another conversation. You don't have to hate that person. You don't have to be eternally at
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odds with that person. You just simply say like, that's where they're at. That's where I'm at.
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Neither one of us is right or wrong or better or worse. It's not a matter of that. I think that
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that's a really, really, really important way to deal with things. And also, I think when you do
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that something else also happens i remember when i was still teaching at the college level i think
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that was still it was during the first trump presidency and i had a student i think he was
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from colombia i used to teach immigrants here in new york and he we were talking about politics
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nothing super in-depth that just was part of the conversation it came up and he wanted to make it
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known that he was like an ardent trump supporter i said okay i was like no i said okay tell me
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why are you an ardent Trump supporter? That's fine. I'm happy. And I say this because I think
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as most people know in academia, it's like, you can't say that. That's terrible. And academics,
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I'm sorry, I have a little bit of trauma around this, but they have all the answers, academics,
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and they know everything and blah, blah, blah. And they know Trump is wrong and blah, blah, blah.
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So you could tell the student had all of his teachers basically tell him he was wrong when
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he would say something like this. But he came from a situation in a country where a lot of what he was
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hearing from the other side in politics felt like what he was hearing from people who were making
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promises in his country and he was tired of hearing it and he was he felt what Trump was saying was
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refreshing and blah blah blah anyway he came at me kind of defensive and I just looked at him I said
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okay that's that's a fair that's a fair stance or something just didn't didn't want to fight him on
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it and I think the class was I don't know how they felt I would imagine some people were like why
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isn't Frank gonna say Trump is the worst thing that ever happened and blah blah blah blah one I
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I don't inherently think that.
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And two, it's just this moment of like, what is that going to do?
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It's going to have this student dig in deeper and just want to be against me and want to
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be against everybody that disagrees with them.
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So he stated his piece.
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And I said, OK, that makes sense.
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Like, incorporate that into the next thing you write.
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Feel free to share it, whatever.
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And I think oftentimes when.
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People are really dug into a position really deeply.
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It's often from a, James Baldwin used to write about this.
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James Baldwin is one of the most famous
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African-American writers of all time.
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He wrote a book, he wrote many, many books,
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but one of my favorite of them is called
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The Fire Next Time.
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Just an amazing book if you get a chance to read it.
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I'm saying that to the audience.
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James Baldwin said oftentimes
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when it came to something like racism,
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really disliking someone else because of their race,
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maybe that was a white American
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disliking an African-American or a black American.
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And what's usually fueling that is some sort of like inexplicable pain.
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That person is in pain.
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So that student is in pain and he's gravitated towards having a certain stance and grasping
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onto that because he's defending, he's protecting some sort of pain inside of him.
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And I think that's the same for most people oftentimes.
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And also for people who have gravitated to Bitcoin, you know, maybe they just chose Bitcoin.
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They could have gravitated to anything that has sort of a cult-like following.
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And I have no problem saying that.
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I know we're all totally insane in this space.
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So it's like, it is what it is.
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But there could be pain there as well. I mean, for me, when I started writing, I was actually far more antagonistic because there was pain. I didn't understand. I thought I had done everything right. And when I looked at my student loan debt and all of the other things that I was struggling with financially, at one point I was working seven jobs in New York. It was this feeling of like, what am I doing wrong?
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And then when I learned about monetary debasement and how that steals your time and energy and all this stuff, I was mad for a while. I was really defensive for a while. And especially if people told me Bitcoin was a scam or it wasn't the answer. And especially if those were boomers telling me that, the people who I was, you know, they've put me in this situation, these boomers, everybody else I was blaming but myself.
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But there tends to be a pain there. And so if you sort of let people air their grievance and say like, hey, look, I get it. I get your frustrations. Like, I might not agree with your solution to it, whether that's your political beliefs or what you've chosen as your, you know, whether or not you think Bitcoin is a solution, whatever it is.
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I think it's important to stop trying to convince people.
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And I think you actually become more convincing when you stop trying to either proselytize or tell people they're right or wrong or whatever it is.
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So I think ultimately it sounds challenging to let go of the ego in those situations.
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But in reality, it still even benefits you in the long term or even in the relative short term.
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It still benefits you to say like, hey, I don't want to go there with you.
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So I'm just going to say like I respect your opinion.
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And that's that.
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And ultimately, it's also about show, don't tell, right? And this is why I started with Bitcoin,
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because I realized, okay, so most people in the space are still into finance or economics. I know
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that based on everybody's definition of Bitcoiner, there are so many people out there that could be
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exposed to Bitcoin and really into the value and have changed themselves that are not doing that
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because the cohort of our content
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from the Bitcoin space created by Bitcoiners
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are not speaking to them, right?
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And that's on us.
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That's on us.
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And I was thinking how, okay,
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so if I got lucky, he got a Bitcoin job
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and then game come to the space
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and become a Bitcoiner
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while being hopeless romantic.
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Like there are so many more hopeless romantics out there.
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How can we bring all of the hopeless romantics
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into the Bitcoin world?
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Like that's really my angle.
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And how do we bring people who love life,
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like who love gardening,
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who do parenting
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because we all have kids and we do these things to live, right?
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Like we're humans.
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And being human, it's something go beyond race.
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Being human, it's something that goes beyond gender,
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goes beyond values even.
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Because before you have values, you're a human
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and you're capable enough and grown to the point.
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So I wanted to connect people through positive energy,
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through the life itself on Bitcoin Standard
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because Bitcoin can go to zero tomorrow.
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But what I've lived,
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the life I've lived on the Bitcoin standard in the Bitcoin,
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nobody can take that away from me.
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And ultimately we are here for these moments,
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for every present that we get to have in the space for us.
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And if we just basically just put our money where our mouth is
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and really carry our words,
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practice our own preach basically,
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then over time,
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hopefully people will be inspired to create,
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to join along and to think, oh, what do I stand for?
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And then they would be standing firm on that.
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And whatever that is, right?
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Like I'm not judgmental like that.
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And if you ultimately become a villain in the story,
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but you're coherent, then our world needs both roles.
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Like there's no white without black, right?
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Like we need the day and night.
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We need the love and grief to come together to form unity.
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And this is what we're here for.
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But we need the coherence We need the authenticity start to shine through whoever you are And this is I guess our joint mission to inspire people to be And speaking from your journey in Bitcoin and it been diverse roles many diverse perspectives many kind of tricky situations How have you how have Bitcoin helped you understand people in this journey Yeah it a great great question I think Bitcoin tends to be like jet fuel for amplifying personalities
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Maybe it's like a mirror.
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Maybe that's an easier way to put it.
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It tends to be a bit of a mirror for people.
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And again, there's no judgment in that statement.
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It's more just it tends to show what you're all about.
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So for me, I've always been deeply attracted to different cultures.
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I don't know why.
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And I don't even say that from like a humanitarian lens.
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Like I want to help somewhere.
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It's just, I love being around people of different cultures and I love learning from them and I love traveling to different places and all this kind of stuff.
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But the bigger thing there, the one thing it's amplified within myself, I'll start there and answer your question, is I've studied and worked in a lot of different systems where I've tried to, I'm going to use this word very loosely because I don't love it, but I've tried to help, whether that's as a teacher, to help somebody write better.
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I did some work some very very brief work with the United Nations in Namibia that was after Japan
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and I thought that that was the way for a while and that was the most that's that's what I really
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thought was the best thing to do at that time I came back and did a little bit more work creating
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an online course for early childhood development with you with the UN as well and what I what what
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what I realized with Bitcoin was it was the first thing that I found that didn't feel like a band-aid
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or a top-down approach.
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Like it was a catalyst for people on the ground up
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to start to feeling genuinely empowered
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and to then not only make decisions
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that better their own life,
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but then become community leaders in the process.
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So I think I didn't even realize
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what I was looking for was like,
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I'm not coming into your country to be the white savior.
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I would deeply prefer to like play anything but that role.
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And I think what's amazing about Bitcoin,
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especially the educational efforts meet premier bitcoin and a lot of the circular economy stuff
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which is the stuff that i love to write about the thing that feels amazing for me to see and i'll
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add a caveat here my the trauma that i've worked through in my life revolves around taking care of
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other people close family members my father was sick for a long time so i always i have this weird
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feeling of like i have to fix this i have to do this i have to do this and bitcoin it sort of was
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like, wait, it's this tool where, yeah, we do have to work together for sure. But once people get it,
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they start fixing it for themselves. They start fixing other things in their lives, and then they
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start helping other people in their communities do the same. And I felt this tremendous sense of
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relief that I didn't even know I was looking for. It's like, dude, you don't have to keep being out
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there trying to be the support for everyone or this or that. And I'm not saying that from a
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stance that that's what I was actually accomplishing. It was my own sort of psychosomatic
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issue, feeling that in my body that I had to do this, blah, blah, blah, blah. But to the point,
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it's made the journey. I always had a sense, especially after living in Venezuela,
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that if systems weren't oppressive, people would free themselves. So it doesn't need,
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we don't need all of these NGOs and we don't need all of these state-sponsored programs.
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If people actually just felt empowered and free, things would just start getting better.
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And one of the best stories I've come across in the Bitcoin space, and the fact that I got to
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help tell this story to the broader world is one of my, the biggest honors of my lifetime.
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But the largest informal settlement in Africa, another word for informal settlement is slum.
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I don't like this term, but the largest informal settlement in Africa is a place called Kibera.
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It's within the city limits of Nairobi in Kenya. And within this place, there is a Bitcoin circular
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economy. It's called Afribit. The person who runs it, his name is Rani Maduida. He's a living saint.
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When you're in his presence, you can feel it. You can, oh, hey there. When you're in, when you're in,
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when you're with him, he has this really soft spoken, beautiful demeanor. And he's just kind,
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he's like kindness embodied. And I wrote a piece for Forbes on what was happening there.
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It had this effect where a correspondent for the BBC read the Forbes piece, went to the community
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himself and was like, I want to see this. I want to see this thing with my own two eyes.
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BBC did a four minute segment on how real this was. Associated Press saw it. They went there.
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Reuters saw it. They went there. And everybody was like, this is a very real thing. Like Bitcoin
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actually is doing something here. It validated this thing in my mind of like, the people who I
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lived with in that barrio were super smart. They were super resourceful. They just didn't have a
403
00:30:19,108 --> 00:30:22,568
ton of opportunities, but you almost have to become resourceful when you don't have a lot
404
00:30:22,568 --> 00:30:25,348
of resources, right? That's the whole thing. You have to learn how to economize when you don't
405
00:30:25,348 --> 00:30:29,788
have money. It's just the way things work. And what you're seeing is Bitcoin then becomes this
406
00:30:29,788 --> 00:30:34,108
catalyst and this, not just as an asset, but as a permissionless network and all of this stuff.
407
00:30:34,488 --> 00:30:38,848
And not only that, the social dimension of this circular economy being linked to this one and
408
00:30:38,848 --> 00:30:42,648
people sharing best practices and people feeling that they're a part of a global movement.
409
00:30:42,648 --> 00:30:48,588
All of this stuff leads to, wait a second, if we just take these oppressive systems off
410
00:30:48,588 --> 00:30:52,128
the neck of all these people globally, things might just get better.
411
00:30:52,228 --> 00:30:56,228
If they start using a different network, this Bitcoin network, things might get better.
412
00:30:56,348 --> 00:30:57,488
Bitcoin doesn't solve everything.
413
00:30:57,608 --> 00:31:01,628
There's still everyday legal, analog, whatever stuff that they have to deal with that makes
414
00:31:01,628 --> 00:31:03,708
things tough, but it can serve as a catalyst.
415
00:31:03,708 --> 00:31:22,824
So I say that because I spent so much of my life before Bitcoin looking for a solution like this without even knowing that I was looking for a solution like this thinking that the way I was doing that whether through an educational lens or organizational lens was the only way to do it Whereas I realized again so many of the people that I work with globally
416
00:31:23,004 --> 00:31:24,544
there were such brilliant people.
417
00:31:25,064 --> 00:31:28,384
I mean, in Ghana, I've never felt so useless in my whole life
418
00:31:28,384 --> 00:31:29,704
than when I lived in rural Africa,
419
00:31:30,324 --> 00:31:32,844
how good people were with their hands.
420
00:31:32,844 --> 00:31:35,084
We were building structures while I was there,
421
00:31:35,204 --> 00:31:37,884
what they could do with their carpentry skills
422
00:31:37,884 --> 00:31:41,284
and what they were able to build with like minimal resources.
423
00:31:41,584 --> 00:31:43,764
I'm coming from being like a publicist in the music business.
424
00:31:43,904 --> 00:31:45,004
Like, oh, I know how to write emails.
425
00:31:45,004 --> 00:31:47,884
Like, what does that even mean when you're watching someone like construct a house with
426
00:31:47,884 --> 00:31:49,724
like some wood and two nails or something?
427
00:31:49,824 --> 00:31:51,644
I just felt so utterly useless.
428
00:31:51,944 --> 00:31:55,284
And I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, if they have these skills, if people have these skills,
429
00:31:55,284 --> 00:31:59,404
they have more skills than I do on a very tangible level.
430
00:31:59,564 --> 00:32:01,464
What I'm seeing with Bitcoin is these problems being solved.
431
00:32:01,564 --> 00:32:04,644
So again, I'm deviating a little bit far from the question.
432
00:32:04,644 --> 00:32:30,624
But, you know, there's other people in the Bitcoin space who, you know, they're building financial products on top of Bitcoin and this and that. It's not my favorite thing, but maybe that's what they do. It amplifies what they're able to do. Okay, great. You know, there's other people, too, who maybe come to it. And I don't mean this meaning in a mean or insulting way. It's like maybe they maybe they feel a sense of permanent lack. So they want more and more Bitcoin forever and they'll never be satisfied till they get all the Bitcoin. I don't know.
433
00:32:30,624 --> 00:32:36,784
I don't know what it is, but whatever that either the hole that we have inside of us, some people come to Bitcoin to try to fill that.
434
00:32:37,164 --> 00:32:39,384
And we all do have some level of a hole.
435
00:32:39,564 --> 00:32:41,244
I love the social dimension to Bitcoin.
436
00:32:41,484 --> 00:32:44,484
And I think for me, I have a tendency sometimes to get lonely.
437
00:32:44,684 --> 00:32:48,344
So it's like it's I love going to conferences and seeing people and all this kind of stuff.
438
00:32:48,424 --> 00:32:49,924
So I think it's great for that reason.
439
00:32:50,284 --> 00:32:52,984
But I think it just tends to amplify both the things.
440
00:32:53,164 --> 00:32:55,964
I don't I don't even want to quantify these things as like pros and cons.
441
00:32:56,064 --> 00:32:58,604
It just tends to amplify things about us.
442
00:32:58,604 --> 00:33:24,564
Some of those things might be our loving nature. Some of those things might be our greediness. Some of those things might be our fear. Whatever it is, it tends to amplify those things. That's fine. I mean, if you could just simply take that objectively as a moment to look in the mirror and say, okay, this is what I'm all about. Maybe that will then cause you to examine those things. Why do you want to do that? For me, it caused me to examine why was I flying to all these countries trying to work on this program and that program?
443
00:33:24,564 --> 00:33:37,324
What was that? It made me have to think twice about that and be grateful for the fact that there's now a tool out there that helps people to solve some of their own problems instead of having to rely on some top down institution or something like that.
444
00:33:37,324 --> 00:33:42,324
I know I went on a little bit of a tangent there, but I think for me, it surely was a mirror.
445
00:33:42,524 --> 00:33:46,924
And I went through even the greedy stage of like, I want more of it and I want more of it at any cost.
446
00:33:46,984 --> 00:33:51,584
And I'm going to cut whatever corners I can to save as much as I can and get all this dirty fiat out of my hands.
447
00:33:51,784 --> 00:33:54,804
But what happened there was I watched that backfire on me.
448
00:33:55,184 --> 00:33:58,344
I got into Bitcoin during two bear markets ago, 2018.
449
00:33:59,224 --> 00:34:04,224
And I'm going to say this, and I know you're not supposed to, as a Bitcoiner, and you're not supposed to have any fiat,
450
00:34:04,224 --> 00:34:06,644
and you're supposed to just be a good Bitcoiner, blah, blah, blah.
451
00:34:06,644 --> 00:34:11,064
But I was overexposed to Bitcoin during the last drawdown, the 2022 drawdown.
452
00:34:11,224 --> 00:34:12,544
It was physically painful.
453
00:34:12,684 --> 00:34:13,824
I lost sleep over it.
454
00:34:13,884 --> 00:34:14,664
It was miserable.
455
00:34:14,964 --> 00:34:16,124
I will never do that again.
456
00:34:16,264 --> 00:34:18,384
And that came from learning, came from being greedy.
457
00:34:18,804 --> 00:34:23,064
It came from just saying like, look, you love Bitcoin, love being a part of the network.
458
00:34:23,224 --> 00:34:27,044
It doesn't mean that there aren't still fiat bills to pay and there isn't still a fiat
459
00:34:27,044 --> 00:34:28,104
world to deal with.
460
00:34:28,404 --> 00:34:32,864
Come to that, find that balance for yourself and take some time to look in the mirror.
461
00:34:32,864 --> 00:34:42,324
I think that those are not that you asked for any advice, but if you're going to if Bitcoin is going to amplify certain things about you and those things don't feel great, examine those things a little bit.
462
00:34:42,504 --> 00:34:50,144
I think this is the journey every Bitcoiners ought to have is to expose themselves to those imbalances.
463
00:34:50,724 --> 00:34:56,704
So you first identify them and then it's up to you to decide from that point what you're going to do with it.
464
00:34:56,704 --> 00:34:58,864
Right. Because you can you can stop there.
465
00:34:58,864 --> 00:35:04,264
you can just feel like the imbalance is balanced and feel like, oh, that's it's Sats that I'm after.
466
00:35:04,444 --> 00:35:08,404
But is it really? Is it really that like how much Sats would be enough?
467
00:35:08,484 --> 00:35:10,764
And then you'll realize that they wouldn't have an answer themselves.
468
00:35:11,104 --> 00:35:14,484
And what Bitcoin, at what price would you feel like that you had enough?
469
00:35:14,564 --> 00:35:16,484
And you will realize that they don't have the answer.
470
00:35:16,864 --> 00:35:17,844
And it's not about that.
471
00:35:18,144 --> 00:35:20,644
To go back to the practicality thing about it.
472
00:35:20,684 --> 00:35:26,664
And this is why like European people and the North American people are the worst to orange peel in a way
473
00:35:26,664 --> 00:35:30,364
because they have all of the financial tools available to them.
474
00:35:30,504 --> 00:35:31,544
So what's the use of this?
475
00:35:31,604 --> 00:35:32,664
We already have this, right?
476
00:35:32,704 --> 00:35:35,924
So it's hard for them to see versus if you go to developing countries,
477
00:35:36,084 --> 00:35:41,484
the resources available to them are so limited to the point that you have to be practical.
478
00:35:41,764 --> 00:35:47,304
You can't afford to be unpractical because it's about survival and it's not about being pure.
479
00:35:47,464 --> 00:35:49,324
It's just not a consideration at all.
480
00:35:49,524 --> 00:35:53,904
Like you are, your kids are starving and you're working without a roof.
481
00:35:53,904 --> 00:35:55,984
Like you have to fix these things first.
482
00:35:55,984 --> 00:35:59,504
like a thousand million steps before you start thinking about if you're pure.
483
00:35:59,804 --> 00:36:03,244
Like it's just the reality of it.
484
00:36:03,344 --> 00:36:07,344
So I certainly get sad and frustrated when I see some Bitcoiners
485
00:36:07,344 --> 00:36:11,704
are starting to go on the wrong tangent for themselves and for the community
486
00:36:11,704 --> 00:36:18,044
and thinking that, you know, like it can save them or because we ultimately we live our lives.
487
00:36:18,304 --> 00:36:34,160
And it seems like you feel like you believe that Bitcoin is something that reveals people who already are So is it a case Or do you think Bitcoin changes people or review who they already are where it a ratio I think a lot about this statement
488
00:36:34,420 --> 00:36:36,520
I want to recontextualize this,
489
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:37,140
if you don't mind.
490
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:37,940
Go for it.
491
00:36:38,180 --> 00:36:40,140
As I said earlier,
492
00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:43,080
it might reveal some sort of hole within ourselves,
493
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,240
some sort of insecurity or something like that.
494
00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:45,920
And that's fine.
495
00:36:46,220 --> 00:36:48,520
Don't let that make you cringe and blah, blah, blah.
496
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:49,320
Just accept it.
497
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,520
Just accept it and then deal with it appropriately.
498
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,120
this is going to sound a little this is going to sound kind of crazy like this is like very kind of
499
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:02,600
hippy dippy sort of stuff but we are all we are all i want to say this without sounding super hippie
500
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:10,720
who we are is an extension of love of the eternal love of of of the universe which i believe is is
501
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:16,260
love predominantly so i think it's more of an application it has a tendency to amplify our
502
00:37:16,260 --> 00:37:21,480
insecurities who we are i if it was amplifying who we are then we'd already be living in a
503
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:27,700
world where everybody was more loving because of Bitcoin. I was more giving and more grateful
504
00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:32,520
because of Bitcoin. We're not necessarily there because we all have work to do on ourselves.
505
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:39,480
We all have a lot of work to do. I wish I didn't wake up every day and meditate or have to go to
506
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,120
yoga three times a week to feel balanced and to feel that I'm making progress in life. But I do,
507
00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:50,180
this is life. I can't change that and it is what it is. But ideally, there's one thing that I think
508
00:37:50,180 --> 00:37:55,680
is going to happen when more of the world maybe gets past their greedy stage with Bitcoin.
509
00:37:55,820 --> 00:37:56,540
I want more sats.
510
00:37:56,620 --> 00:37:57,060
I want this.
511
00:37:57,220 --> 00:38:01,160
And I say that because there's also, there's a lot of people who will make comments like,
512
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:04,080
you can never have enough Bitcoin, or I didn't stack hard enough, or this or that.
513
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,680
My humble thoughts on that is like, no, you absolutely can't have enough Bitcoin.
514
00:38:08,940 --> 00:38:10,940
You probably, you know, like it's, you can.
515
00:38:11,180 --> 00:38:15,080
And if it's facilitating, if you feel maybe a little bit more financially secure because
516
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,660
you have some Bitcoin and it's facilitating a better life for yourself and those around
517
00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:20,140
you, then you, yeah, you're doing good.
518
00:38:20,180 --> 00:38:21,020
You're doing really well.
519
00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:25,340
And there's going to be a point of diminishing returns when it comes to obsessing over how much Bitcoin you have.
520
00:38:25,380 --> 00:38:27,980
It's going to actually have a negative effect when you do that.
521
00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:31,160
What I think Bitcoin has the potential to do, I'm going to do this very quickly.
522
00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:33,080
There's a book called Power Versus Force.
523
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,200
I've talked to you about this.
524
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,580
And there's a calibration scale of human consciousness in this book.
525
00:38:37,660 --> 00:38:40,600
I have it above my computer here, so I'll quickly read it to everybody.
526
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,880
At the bottom of the scale, you have shame, guilt, apathy, grief, fear, desire, pride.
527
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:53,240
The dividing line between getting above all of those things and getting to a more loving, joyous, etc. life is courage and integrity.
528
00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:57,700
And so you have to live a life of integrity and live a life of courage, doing what you believe is right.
529
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:03,040
When you get above that line, you get to neutrality, willingness, acceptance, reason, love, joy, peace, enlightenment.
530
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:05,080
There are ways to calibrate this.
531
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:06,160
It's a long story.
532
00:39:06,260 --> 00:39:08,680
If you ever want to read the book, I highly recommend it to the audience.
533
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,920
Power versus Force by Dr. Richard Hawkins.
534
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:18,100
I watched a talk in Colombia on somebody who is like a complete believer in this process, and he calibrated Bitcoin.
535
00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:22,240
Bitcoin calibrates on this level that I just talked about goes between zero and a thousand.
536
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:28,920
Bitcoin, according to the people who calibrated it with him, calibrates at 650, which is like unconditional love.
537
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:35,620
So if the world is using this thing to transact with one another, that calibrates at unconditional love.
538
00:39:35,620 --> 00:39:41,760
This guy gave a presentation on this in Columbia. It's the top five Bitcoin presentation I've ever
539
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:47,280
seen, and it's barely ever been shared. It was one of the most beautiful presentations I've ever
540
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,220
seen, but he talked about the way the world would be transformed. I think he said something like
541
00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:57,420
fiat calibrates somewhere between fear and desire, which is like 100 or 125.
542
00:39:58,140 --> 00:40:03,480
If we had this thing that maybe has the potential to bring everybody's frequency level up,
543
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:09,400
And I really believe this. I know this might sound totally insane and nobody's ever going to read anything I write again, but like I'm going to say this out loud.
544
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:16,440
I believe Bitcoin has the potential to raise the frequency of our world and to raise each of our frequencies in the process.
545
00:40:16,620 --> 00:40:25,440
Jeff Booth talks a lot about this and he says that's the beauty about Bitcoin is because once you actually get comfortable using it, every transaction feels like an act of love.
546
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,860
And that took me a really long time to see, but I fully believe that.
547
00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:35,760
One of the things I highly recommend to people who are listening, if you've adopted like the hodl only mindset, that's it.
548
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:36,660
Like you only hodl.
549
00:40:37,220 --> 00:40:41,740
Here's a very small challenge I have for you.
550
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,100
Go on to Geyser Fund.
551
00:40:43,540 --> 00:40:53,980
Find a project somewhere in the world, a circular economy, something like Bitcoin Dada, a program that's educating African women doing this amazing work over there.
552
00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:56,420
Donate to Meet Premier Bitcoin or whatever it is.
553
00:40:56,420 --> 00:41:01,960
go go send some sats to them and just see how you feel now at first it's going to be hard because
554
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,160
you're parting with it it's like breaking the seal right it's like no i have all these bitcoin
555
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:09,240
and they're in cold storage and they're never moving and i'm holding forever but once you break
556
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:14,820
that seal it's almost like this river starts to flow and then it's just like oh this feels really
557
00:41:14,820 --> 00:41:19,320
good like i love sending bitcoin to people i pay the person who produces my podcast and bitcoin i
558
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,700
love sending big it's just it's this feeling of like oh i'm doing this there's this mutual there's
559
00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:28,940
this transaction taking place and I'm giving this thing that I really care about to someone else.
560
00:41:28,940 --> 00:41:32,440
Ideally, you know, they're going to appreciate having it and blah, blah, blah.
561
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,840
There's something really, really beautiful that starts to happen when you get a little bit more
562
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,960
comfortable using it. And I think that as the world, as that happens more
563
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:42,597
more and more in the world, the world will change.
564
00:41:42,697 --> 00:41:47,397
There's something about how beautiful of an instrument it is to transact with
565
00:41:47,397 --> 00:41:48,857
and to give it to someone else.
566
00:41:48,997 --> 00:41:51,837
And even if it is a little bit difficult to part with, that's part of the beauty.
567
00:41:51,957 --> 00:41:53,857
You're giving something you love away, right?
568
00:41:53,897 --> 00:41:57,357
You're giving this thing that your ego is telling you to hold on to.
569
00:41:57,417 --> 00:41:58,097
There won't be enough.
570
00:41:58,157 --> 00:41:59,777
If I give it away, I'll never get it back.
571
00:41:59,837 --> 00:42:01,457
And the price will run away from me and blah, blah, blah.
572
00:42:01,797 --> 00:42:02,797
You will get it back.
573
00:42:02,897 --> 00:42:03,617
You will get it back.
574
00:42:03,697 --> 00:42:06,637
Or even start taking part in like the Noster zapping world.
575
00:42:06,777 --> 00:42:09,437
Yeah, I remember the first few times I zapped bigger amounts and I'm like,
576
00:42:09,437 --> 00:42:14,337
oh my god i'm so crazy why would i ever do that i've always it's always been a net positive for
577
00:42:14,337 --> 00:42:18,897
me on nostr i've always made more than i've zapped i probably should zap even harder but it's almost
578
00:42:18,897 --> 00:42:23,937
like this thing of like if you want love in the world be love if you want respect in the world
579
00:42:23,937 --> 00:42:29,357
give respect to people if you want more sats give some sats to people again like i hesitate to say
580
00:42:29,357 --> 00:42:33,577
all this stuff because i think people are they think i'm totally crazy but i i genuinely hold
581
00:42:33,577 --> 00:42:38,497
bitcoin in this regard and i think it has the potential to transform humanity in these ways
582
00:42:38,497 --> 00:42:41,657
because I think deep down, we all really do love giving.
583
00:42:41,917 --> 00:42:42,817
We do love sharing.
584
00:42:42,997 --> 00:42:44,517
We do love supporting one another
585
00:42:44,517 --> 00:42:46,957
and doing so via Geyser Fund initiatives
586
00:42:46,957 --> 00:42:49,417
or circular economy initiatives or through Noster.
587
00:42:49,717 --> 00:42:52,857
These are really beautiful ways to sort of test those waters
588
00:42:52,857 --> 00:42:55,597
and see how it feels like and to kind of enjoy that process
589
00:42:55,597 --> 00:42:57,777
of being a part of something that's bigger than yourself.
590
00:42:58,097 --> 00:42:58,597
Yeah, totally.
591
00:42:58,937 --> 00:43:01,537
I definitely, I'm on the same plane there.
592
00:43:01,677 --> 00:43:05,517
So don't feel you're alone here with the whole frequency series
593
00:43:05,517 --> 00:43:10,197
and how Bitcoin really has the power of being the mirror for ourselves first.
594
00:43:10,397 --> 00:43:16,337
And then to the point that individually we rise our frequency with Bitcoin being the tool,
595
00:43:16,437 --> 00:43:24,077
being the catalyst so that the society will be a different place because of those movement.
596
00:43:24,677 --> 00:43:30,537
And on that note, what quality do you feel like Bitcoin would reward for Bitcoiners,
597
00:43:30,537 --> 00:43:32,957
for people who get into it themselves?
598
00:43:32,957 --> 00:43:39,437
what qualities do you think bitcoin rewards long term i'm not sure i fully understand it but i have
599
00:43:39,437 --> 00:43:44,437
an answer i have a feeling as you ask this question and i totally love it i just said i think bitcoin
600
00:43:44,437 --> 00:43:48,897
calibrates around the level of unconditional love i think it rewards unconditional love
601
00:43:48,897 --> 00:43:55,557
i think because it exists on that frequency what it rewards is the non-judgmental i i appreciate
602
00:43:55,557 --> 00:44:03,957
you unconditionally love you, I think it rewards that mindset because it's like in giving you
603
00:44:03,957 --> 00:44:09,597
receive. And I think the other thing that you start to realize is that it's not about how much
604
00:44:09,597 --> 00:44:15,097
Bitcoin you're holding and how good your security is and how many sats you've stacked and all that
605
00:44:15,097 --> 00:44:20,257
kind of stuff. What have you given back to the community that you feel aligned with? Because
606
00:44:20,257 --> 00:44:25,417
let's just say this. I want to have a perfect example for how to frame what I'm trying to say
607
00:44:25,417 --> 00:44:31,037
here. When I first started writing a Substack over five years ago now, I started writing because
608
00:44:31,037 --> 00:44:35,877
I was like, I'm so tired of the mainstream media, their portrayal of Bitcoin, and I want to join
609
00:44:35,877 --> 00:44:40,397
this conversation. It was really difficult for me. It was really, really difficult. And I purposely
610
00:44:40,397 --> 00:44:45,237
did it just under my name, which is frankcorvett.substack.com. I did that because I wanted
611
00:44:45,237 --> 00:44:49,337
it to be like, yes, that's the Frank who's a college professor and who's done all these other
612
00:44:49,337 --> 00:44:53,177
things and blah, blah, blah. He really likes Bitcoin, that guy. And if you have a question
613
00:44:53,177 --> 00:44:57,477
about why he likes it go to him. I didn't want to write it. I just I want to be very clear about
614
00:44:57,477 --> 00:45:02,697
who was saying what it was me saying this thing. And I did that thinking, OK, well, now you're
615
00:45:02,697 --> 00:45:07,257
putting a target on your back. Bitcoin is a bearer asset. You're now putting yourself out there to be
616
00:45:07,257 --> 00:45:12,537
to be a target. And so, OK, I can I have to I have to live with that. Have I? Yeah, I think I've
617
00:45:12,537 --> 00:45:16,417
gotten just about 100 percent comfortable with that. It just is what it is. Yeah, sure. That
618
00:45:16,417 --> 00:45:20,277
could happen. I just don't I don't want to live my life in fear. And if Bitcoin is just going to
619
00:45:20,277 --> 00:45:24,297
be like ubiquitous then we all have to get used to that being a reality there was something that
620
00:45:24,297 --> 00:45:29,157
happened an extension of bitcoin i would call nostr an extension of bitcoin similar principles
621
00:45:29,157 --> 00:45:34,277
you can use bitcoin on nostr i don't think i have to explain what nostr is for your audience but you
622
00:45:34,277 --> 00:45:39,437
know for let's just call it a decentralized uh identity or social media more more decentralized
623
00:45:39,437 --> 00:45:48,057
identity platform my nostr nsec was was exposed i don't know how i i probably plugged it into some
624
00:45:48,057 --> 00:45:53,457
Noster client and it got whatever, but it kind of sucked because I had 4,000 followers. And once
625
00:45:53,457 --> 00:45:57,897
your NSEC, it's like your private key. Once it's exposed, that's it. You can't, I mean, basically
626
00:45:57,897 --> 00:46:01,377
you just can't use it anymore. It's the same with your Bitcoin private key. Once it's exposed,
627
00:46:01,477 --> 00:46:05,477
you have to move that Bitcoin to a different address. And it really sucked. I was like,
628
00:46:05,477 --> 00:46:09,297
I don't feel like starting from scratch. I had 4,000 followers and all this kind of stuff. It's
629
00:46:09,297 --> 00:46:13,397
like, ah, this is like whatever. And it was brutal. I was just like, I don't, I just didn't
630
00:46:13,397 --> 00:46:19,537
feel like dealing with it. And Daniel from Noster, Daniel Modell, who I know from here,
631
00:46:19,637 --> 00:46:24,297
he's part of the Harlem Bitcoin community in New York. Milyan from Primal, a few other people
632
00:46:24,297 --> 00:46:32,037
helped me out, helping me migrate over. Odell reached out to me, verified that it was me and
633
00:46:32,037 --> 00:46:35,577
all this kind of stuff. And there was this sense of community. And the reason I bring this up is
634
00:46:35,577 --> 00:46:40,017
because I used to think like, okay, well, if I'm going to be an advocate for Bitcoin and a journalist,
635
00:46:40,137 --> 00:46:41,477
a writer, a voice in this space.
636
00:46:41,737 --> 00:46:43,717
Maybe even if I get all my Bitcoin hacked
637
00:46:43,717 --> 00:46:45,097
and someone robs me and blah, blah, blah,
638
00:46:45,297 --> 00:46:47,257
maybe people from the community would say,
639
00:46:47,377 --> 00:47:00,393
hey you know what You provided a lot of value to me Frank Like here some Bitcoin And I not saying that anyone owes that to me or whatever but just sort of from a community perspective Frank is a good guy And then like you know what I want to support him And I done that for
640
00:47:00,393 --> 00:47:04,053
people, people I found out lost some Bitcoin. I think I had a few different people. It's like,
641
00:47:04,073 --> 00:47:06,573
I've just sent them some Bitcoin. It's yours. Thank you for what you've done. I've always
642
00:47:06,573 --> 00:47:11,833
valued your work or whatever. And when that Nostra thing happened and people sort of came to my aid,
643
00:47:11,873 --> 00:47:16,733
I was just like, man, that was the feeling. That's why I did this. And that's why I do what I do in
644
00:47:16,733 --> 00:47:21,013
the space with the most integrity possible. There are moments that I probably could have been
645
00:47:21,013 --> 00:47:25,793
a little bit more, have a little more integrity, but we're human beings. There's other people. We
646
00:47:25,793 --> 00:47:30,153
could be people pleasers. We could do whatever. But I do my best to stay as high integrity as
647
00:47:30,153 --> 00:47:34,193
possible. And that's fine. The days that I slip, I forgive myself. We get back and we get back on
648
00:47:34,193 --> 00:47:39,933
the horse. But that feeling with Nostra was like, oh, it happened. The thing you feared the most,
649
00:47:40,113 --> 00:47:44,253
well, it's not the same as exposing your NSEC is not the same as exposing your Bitcoin private key,
650
00:47:44,253 --> 00:47:50,413
but it happened something vulnerable happened and the community came to my aid and that that's the
651
00:47:50,413 --> 00:47:54,973
experience that you get when you join this community when you send sats to people when
652
00:47:54,973 --> 00:47:59,713
you do the right thing in the space and all that kind of stuff so i i think it rewards integrity i
653
00:47:59,713 --> 00:48:04,513
think it rewards generosity i think it rewards love especially unconditional love and i think
654
00:48:04,513 --> 00:48:10,013
it rewards being a member of the community and wanting to make things better for the community
655
00:48:10,013 --> 00:48:14,753
at large. And I think that most people don't see it that way because we talk about notions like
656
00:48:14,753 --> 00:48:19,333
self-sovereignty and the individual and all this kind of stuff. And that's fine, but nobody acts
657
00:48:19,333 --> 00:48:23,293
completely alone. Everybody acts on some level where we're interdependent on one another.
658
00:48:23,653 --> 00:48:29,393
What Bitcoin does is it joins us in a different way. We're here trying to build and defend this
659
00:48:29,393 --> 00:48:33,753
network together. When you step out of your fear of spending a little bit of that Bitcoin or
660
00:48:33,753 --> 00:48:38,633
speaking up or whatever, all of a sudden you start to get a little bit more embraced by this world.
661
00:48:38,633 --> 00:48:40,773
and then that reinforces the idea of,
662
00:48:40,893 --> 00:48:42,113
oh, I should defend this world.
663
00:48:42,273 --> 00:48:43,553
I should be a part of this thing.
664
00:48:43,853 --> 00:48:46,033
And I think we just do that for each other little by little.
665
00:48:46,253 --> 00:48:48,013
It's just every day, it's little gestures,
666
00:48:48,233 --> 00:48:50,633
little moments, it's a little zap, it's a little support.
667
00:48:50,833 --> 00:48:53,853
You had an experience where the community supported your music.
668
00:48:54,133 --> 00:48:56,333
I'll stop rambling on and on here
669
00:48:56,333 --> 00:48:57,993
and maybe share that for a second.
670
00:48:58,073 --> 00:49:00,273
What did it feel like to have people get you
671
00:49:00,273 --> 00:49:03,013
above the threshold you needed to get to via Geyser Fund?
672
00:49:03,413 --> 00:49:05,833
Wow, I love being asked questions on my own podcast.
673
00:49:06,673 --> 00:49:08,333
One of my favorite things, actually.
674
00:49:08,633 --> 00:49:09,673
So I'll answer this.
675
00:49:09,873 --> 00:49:12,073
Yeah, like it's a it's a amazing experience.
676
00:49:12,073 --> 00:49:14,813
And I didn't have it didn't have expectation.
677
00:49:15,393 --> 00:49:21,653
And it was scary for me to come out as a creator and say, this is my work and support me with
678
00:49:21,653 --> 00:49:26,833
sats like that was scary for me to go there in the first place, because the podcast has
679
00:49:26,833 --> 00:49:30,793
been around for two years and it's still a community project with no like sponsors, right?
680
00:49:30,793 --> 00:49:35,753
Like I that was an intentional decision in a way because I was afraid to go there as a
681
00:49:35,753 --> 00:49:43,013
creator. And to see people kind of tuning in to the music and sharing their genuine feedback,
682
00:49:43,573 --> 00:49:49,473
see them back me up with sets for the pins, for the CDs, like that's a real good feeling.
683
00:49:49,893 --> 00:49:54,533
And that's motivation for me every day to keep going because I know there are people
684
00:49:54,533 --> 00:50:00,873
who enjoy what you're doing. You are a source of inspiration by carrying out your own dream,
685
00:50:00,993 --> 00:50:04,713
whatever it takes. And I want to ultimately be a source of inspiration and say,
686
00:50:04,713 --> 00:50:12,413
if I could do it, you could too. And if I started this from just hearing random melodies in my head
687
00:50:12,413 --> 00:50:17,853
and writing it down and take it somewhere, then you have your unfair advantage. You have your
688
00:50:17,853 --> 00:50:24,533
source of passion. And how can we, how can you cultivate that, cultivate the spark of hope,
689
00:50:24,593 --> 00:50:29,913
of love, and manifest that into something bigger for you? Because you also believe that love is the
690
00:50:29,913 --> 00:50:35,133
cure and just don't know where to start and i wanted to be the lighthouse to provide this dim
691
00:50:35,133 --> 00:50:41,093
and distant light and this is why ivy loomy like the dim and distant light like the new luminous
692
00:50:41,093 --> 00:50:48,393
aspect of it oh i like that i love to to be the candle lit in the darkness because you don't need
693
00:50:48,393 --> 00:50:54,673
a lot of light to to know where you're going in the dark so it's although it's not gonna be
694
00:50:54,673 --> 00:51:01,813
a big fire and give provide all that warmth just like the sun but at least I want to be that candle
695
00:51:01,813 --> 00:51:09,133
lit in the darkness for people who are questioning love who are who are having doubt about what this
696
00:51:09,133 --> 00:51:15,133
is all about it is about love and love is the cure and once we operate from love is the cure
697
00:51:15,133 --> 00:51:22,053
perspective like I immediately got so much peace then the perspective of number go up and that was
698
00:51:22,053 --> 00:51:29,073
like the biggest takeaway, like me restructuring my routine and coming to really walk that talk of
699
00:51:29,073 --> 00:51:35,453
time is irrelevant, only love prevails. And how do we live a life that prioritizes self-love,
700
00:51:35,673 --> 00:51:41,893
prioritize kindness first towards ourselves so that we have abundance from within. So if we're
701
00:51:41,893 --> 00:51:47,953
for people who are after sats, they operate from this mentality of lacking. I need more sats. I
702
00:51:47,953 --> 00:51:50,833
don't have enough of sets of whatever.
703
00:51:50,833 --> 00:51:52,153
And that's a mentality lacking.
704
00:51:52,153 --> 00:51:57,013
And if we truly want to be in peace, then we need to operate from a source, from a place
705
00:51:57,013 --> 00:52:11,809
of abundance is we already have everything and the art is already there We just need to carve it out Just like you said like the aspect of education How can we educate ourselves to the point that we reveal the art in ourselves
706
00:52:11,929 --> 00:52:21,449
Like these are the things that I am increasingly be more interested in and want to share with people through my content, through music, through different creative endeavors.
707
00:52:21,449 --> 00:52:29,809
So the message can travel far and wide for people to start thinking about these things.
708
00:52:29,969 --> 00:52:38,809
And once they get on the path of healing, of self-love, they will find Bitcoin on that journey because they were asking the right questions.
709
00:52:39,469 --> 00:52:41,769
And a perfect segue into my next question to you.
710
00:52:42,109 --> 00:52:50,449
There's one theme that comes often on this show is that Bitcoin's biggest impact is almost never financial for individuals.
711
00:52:50,449 --> 00:52:56,009
individuals. And people talk about becoming more patient, more responsible, more intentional,
712
00:52:56,549 --> 00:53:04,249
and long-term orientated. So in that process, we change ourselves or we change the way we
713
00:53:04,249 --> 00:53:08,409
interact with world. And the big winners talk about sovereignty and freedom a lot.
714
00:53:09,009 --> 00:53:14,489
And when it comes to sovereignty, it comes with responsibility with ourselves and towards others.
715
00:53:14,809 --> 00:53:19,669
What do you think is the relationship between responsibility and freedom? Do you think the
716
00:53:19,669 --> 00:53:23,809
grow together? Like, how do you think the two manifest each other?
717
00:53:24,089 --> 00:53:29,209
That's a I love that question. This is like very close to my heart, this concept. I think freedom
718
00:53:29,209 --> 00:53:35,409
is a lot like health. So everybody wants health, but health doesn't just magically happen. It
719
00:53:35,409 --> 00:53:38,849
happens because you make conscious decisions about what you eat. It happens because you go
720
00:53:38,849 --> 00:53:43,849
and exercise. It happens because you don't allow stress to eat you alive. Like it happens for many
721
00:53:43,849 --> 00:53:47,869
reasons. It's the same with freedom. Freedom happens because you take certain precautions,
722
00:53:47,869 --> 00:53:54,009
You take certain responsibilities. You you do certain things to make sure you ensure and protect that freedom.
723
00:53:54,289 --> 00:53:59,369
And so there's two ways to look at freedom. Well, as well, there's always like the internal freedom.
724
00:53:59,709 --> 00:54:04,089
We you talked about abundance coming from within. I think freedom comes from within, too.
725
00:54:04,149 --> 00:54:06,529
We have to feel free. We have to feel free internally.
726
00:54:06,529 --> 00:54:14,829
But there's the other freedom of the reality in this in this 3D world or the meat space of, you know, let's talk about what happened in Chicago this week.
727
00:54:14,829 --> 00:54:22,889
the governor of Chicago just placed a 0.2% tax on all Bitcoin transactions. That includes
728
00:54:22,889 --> 00:54:27,949
moving your Bitcoin from an exchange, all Bitcoin transactions, including moving your Bitcoin from
729
00:54:27,949 --> 00:54:32,749
an exchange to a wallet. If you don't pay that tax, you can go to jail for up to five years,
730
00:54:32,749 --> 00:54:39,349
I believe. That's a lack of freedom. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, I didn't mean to ruin
731
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:44,029
the vibes. Yeah. Yeah. So we do have to think about freedom. So there's the internal freedom,
732
00:54:44,029 --> 00:54:47,109
how free we feel to be ourselves and to express ourselves.
733
00:54:47,489 --> 00:54:49,009
And then there's the world,
734
00:54:49,249 --> 00:54:51,409
the way that the system in this meat space
735
00:54:51,409 --> 00:54:54,029
is either taking freedoms away from us or blah, blah, blah.
736
00:54:54,229 --> 00:54:57,369
We have to, freedom is a constant effort.
737
00:54:57,769 --> 00:54:58,769
Freedom is like weight.
738
00:54:59,169 --> 00:55:01,749
If you're looking to like, or whatever, freedom is your health.
739
00:55:01,829 --> 00:55:03,229
Like I said, if you're looking to stay in shape,
740
00:55:03,249 --> 00:55:04,329
if you're looking to be healthy,
741
00:55:04,329 --> 00:55:06,509
you have to make conscious decisions about these things.
742
00:55:06,609 --> 00:55:07,649
If you want to stay free,
743
00:55:07,709 --> 00:55:09,629
you have to make conscious decisions about these things.
744
00:55:09,849 --> 00:55:11,169
I wish that weren't the case.
745
00:55:11,169 --> 00:55:16,589
I say that as someone who trains for like half Ironman events and I've trained for even full Ironman events.
746
00:55:16,709 --> 00:55:19,449
I unfortunately got injured right before doing an official full Ironman.
747
00:55:19,549 --> 00:55:21,029
The process is difficult.
748
00:55:21,329 --> 00:55:26,149
And the older I get and the more my metabolism slows down, the more I have to take that process seriously.
749
00:55:26,329 --> 00:55:30,349
And it's just like, I wish this weren't true, but it's very, very similar with freedom.
750
00:55:30,749 --> 00:55:32,609
There's almost a constant diligence.
751
00:55:33,329 --> 00:55:40,529
There's a constant having to pay attention to the government overstepping its boundaries or whatever it is.
752
00:55:40,529 --> 00:55:40,869
It's funny.
753
00:55:40,869 --> 00:55:44,529
I think about this a lot. When I was doing the work as the White House correspondent,
754
00:55:44,929 --> 00:55:49,689
I thought a lot about what I was reporting on. And I thought there was a day that someone from
755
00:55:49,689 --> 00:55:53,289
the White House reached out and they were like, we want you to be the person to introduce that
756
00:55:53,289 --> 00:55:57,709
J.D. Vance is speaking at the Bitcoin conference. And my thoughts were like, oh, I don't want to do
757
00:55:57,709 --> 00:56:01,069
that. It's just like, that's not what I look at as my role as the White House correspondent.
758
00:56:01,589 --> 00:56:08,089
My role there was, it was not, so Bitcoin exists, it is freedom and people can use it.
759
00:56:08,089 --> 00:56:12,069
My role was to make sure that the government wasn't imposing on our ability to use it.
760
00:56:12,229 --> 00:56:12,729
That was it.
761
00:56:12,909 --> 00:56:15,869
Like that was in my mind, it was just it was sort of like the Second Amendment.
762
00:56:16,349 --> 00:56:17,929
Everyone is free to use guns.
763
00:56:18,049 --> 00:56:20,349
I'm not I know using saying guns isn't the best example.
764
00:56:20,349 --> 00:56:25,609
But but the idea of the Second Amendment is the government doesn't have a right to impose on people's right to use those.
765
00:56:26,029 --> 00:56:27,489
So I look at Bitcoin in a similar way.
766
00:56:27,549 --> 00:56:30,769
You don't. I'm not worried so much about what the government says we can do.
767
00:56:30,889 --> 00:56:32,309
Bitcoin lets us do all that stuff.
768
00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:39,709
It's let us do that before this administration, before the previous, before whatever, before the, you know, the quote unquote, like pro Bitcoin administration.
769
00:56:39,929 --> 00:56:43,989
In some ways they have been. So my thoughts were always like, I'm just here to defend it.
770
00:56:44,229 --> 00:56:47,129
Like it's doing it's doing what it doesn't need the government to do anything.
771
00:56:47,249 --> 00:56:51,389
It already does all the things. I'm just here to make sure we can use it as freely as possible.
772
00:56:51,389 --> 00:56:53,709
And I think that there are still a lot of Bitcoin people.
773
00:56:53,709 --> 00:56:57,669
So I haven't said this that much, but there was a part.
774
00:56:57,929 --> 00:57:05,229
One of the reasons I stepped back from covering politics in that role is that I'm very conscious of when I feel like I'm giving my power away.
775
00:57:05,389 --> 00:57:09,189
We got to a point as Bitcoiners where we engage so much with politicians.
776
00:57:09,189 --> 00:57:10,469
And I don't think that was bad.
777
00:57:10,509 --> 00:57:25,226
I think it better to do things in the daylight and have conversations But there a point where it becomes antithetical to the nature of Bitcoin If we just here begging for permission to use it it like no no no no no no It like I not going to give that power away If I were in Illinois right now I probably leave the state
778
00:57:25,226 --> 00:57:28,606
and say, I'm going to go to a place that's more friendly to this. That's easier said than done.
779
00:57:28,646 --> 00:57:32,466
I get it. The basic premise here is that we have to remain awake the same way we have to
780
00:57:32,466 --> 00:57:36,226
eat good food, the same way we have to exercise and all these things. You have to sit there and
781
00:57:36,226 --> 00:57:41,946
say, this is something I'm willing to defend. And I think that it very much has the chance to be a
782
00:57:41,946 --> 00:57:46,706
peaceful revolution. Part of the reason that I write about what I write about, which is closer
783
00:57:46,706 --> 00:57:50,226
to what I was doing before I joined Bitcoin Magazine, which is documenting a lot of what
784
00:57:50,226 --> 00:57:55,746
Bitcoin adoption looks like around the world, is because in my humble opinion, well, this isn't my
785
00:57:55,746 --> 00:58:01,126
humble opinion. I genuinely believe all human beings are an extension of eternal love. And I
786
00:58:01,126 --> 00:58:07,606
think that that sensation that the BBC, that that reporter from the BBC had when he read my Forbes
787
00:58:07,606 --> 00:58:13,246
piece, went to Aphrabit, went to Kibera and saw what was going on there and said, I can't deny
788
00:58:13,246 --> 00:58:19,286
this. This is making life better for human beings. I believe everybody has the capacity to have that
789
00:58:19,286 --> 00:58:23,106
experience. I might be wrong. My schooling has taught me I'm wrong for a while. I finished like
790
00:58:23,106 --> 00:58:28,126
a little over half of my degree to be a clinical therapist. So I used to counsel people and things
791
00:58:28,126 --> 00:58:33,926
like that. And then you'll read certain things in psychology, like this person is a sociopath or
792
00:58:33,926 --> 00:58:37,786
a psychopath or this or that. Okay. Like some of that stuff, I don't know, I guess on some level
793
00:58:37,786 --> 00:58:42,466
it exists, but I do think love is more powerful than all of that. And that if you show the world
794
00:58:42,466 --> 00:58:47,726
enough examples of how powerful Bitcoin can be, especially for people who are maybe in some of
795
00:58:47,726 --> 00:58:52,906
the most vulnerable situations in the world, I just think it will have this effect. We're all
796
00:58:52,906 --> 00:58:56,926
thinking like, well, what about the regulation in this? It's like, no, no, no, no, that's fine.
797
00:58:56,966 --> 00:59:01,926
We do have to think about that and we have to get that right. What about shining light on all of the
798
00:59:01,926 --> 00:59:07,886
good that it's doing. And I feel like I have the right to say that because I put my money where my
799
00:59:07,886 --> 00:59:12,226
mouth was. I left the White House to say, no, no, I want to go back just shining light on all the
800
00:59:12,226 --> 00:59:16,546
good that it's doing. And I think that there's more power in that than most people realize.
801
00:59:17,306 --> 00:59:20,406
Don't ever have me on your podcast again. I'm not good at answering your question.
802
00:59:21,286 --> 00:59:27,686
Please. I just go off on tangents, but I appreciate you giving me the floor to do that. So thank you.
803
00:59:27,686 --> 00:59:33,026
Definitely. I sense that too. And then there's, I do feel like there's a responsibility that comes
804
00:59:33,026 --> 00:59:37,606
with understanding Bitcoin. Bitcoiners understanding Bitcoin to a certain degree
805
00:59:37,606 --> 00:59:43,926
and being in certain positions compared to rest of the world, right? It seems like you're taking
806
00:59:43,926 --> 00:59:50,666
that responsibility. And in your definition, it's in your approach, it's about shining light on
807
00:59:50,666 --> 00:59:56,986
the good stuff, on the love and hope in Bitcoin. What do you think? What responsibility do you feel
808
00:59:56,986 --> 01:00:00,546
like generally comes with understanding Bitcoin for everybody.
809
01:00:00,846 --> 01:00:02,526
I think that's different for everyone.
810
01:00:02,786 --> 01:00:08,366
So I'll talk about my specific, what I always used to look at as my responsibility as a writer,
811
01:00:08,646 --> 01:00:09,546
what I write about.
812
01:00:09,546 --> 01:00:12,426
My job, I don't have such a technical mind.
813
01:00:12,626 --> 01:00:18,086
And because I live in absolute privilege in New York, able-bodied male, I have a lot of
814
01:00:18,086 --> 01:00:19,106
things going for me.
815
01:00:19,266 --> 01:00:25,366
So my job is, my job is to defend and to not only defend, my job is to amplify the beautiful
816
01:00:25,366 --> 01:00:30,746
things happening within vulnerable communities and it's to protect developers so i also covered
817
01:00:30,746 --> 01:00:36,626
like the the tornado cash trial and the samurai trial and all this stuff i don't even i say this
818
01:00:36,626 --> 01:00:40,726
and i know people may get mad but like i i don't like the way samurai talked i don't like their
819
01:00:40,726 --> 01:00:44,906
rhetoric i don't like the whole welcome russian oligarchs use our service because i think that
820
01:00:44,906 --> 01:00:48,966
that does damage to the people who really need these privacy preserving services but i still
821
01:00:48,966 --> 01:00:53,706
defend them because i think what they created is important i work for fetty which is a privacy
822
01:00:53,706 --> 01:00:58,886
the layer three of Bitcoin, all this kind of stuff. But my job, in my humble opinion as a writer,
823
01:00:59,126 --> 01:01:05,146
is to shine as much light as possible on the importance of developers being able to do their
824
01:01:05,146 --> 01:01:11,506
work without retribution, fear of retribution, legal retribution, and the importance of not only,
825
01:01:12,006 --> 01:01:16,786
I don't even want to say defending people in the vulnerable communities. I don't think that that's
826
01:01:16,786 --> 01:01:21,786
it. I think it's highlighting the beauty of what's happening in these communities. That's the real
827
01:01:21,786 --> 01:01:28,106
job. It's to say someone, a guy shared this this morning. I just wrote a long piece on a person.
828
01:01:29,086 --> 01:01:34,226
I'm going to pronounce his name kind of wrong. It's a French name. It's Gloho. It's glory in
829
01:01:34,226 --> 01:01:39,326
French. It's Gloho. He's a Bitcoiner in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Nonchalantly,
830
01:01:39,506 --> 01:01:43,346
he said these things to me during our conversation. He's like, well, I moved from one region of the
831
01:01:43,346 --> 01:01:46,786
Congo to others so that I could have the internet to work better. Now, this is something that most
832
01:01:46,786 --> 01:01:49,606
of us listening are just going to take for granted. We're listening to this podcast,
833
01:01:49,606 --> 01:01:51,066
thanks to the internet and everything else.
834
01:01:51,106 --> 01:01:52,426
This guy's like, well, I have to move cities
835
01:01:52,426 --> 01:01:54,366
so that I can actually do this work with Bitcoin.
836
01:01:54,686 --> 01:01:56,286
The other thing he said in passing was like,
837
01:01:56,326 --> 01:01:58,186
well, Bitcoin is great because right now,
838
01:01:58,226 --> 01:02:00,466
like rebels have taken over the city that I live in
839
01:02:00,466 --> 01:02:02,626
and, you know, Bitcoin helps us
840
01:02:02,626 --> 01:02:03,646
because all the banks are shut down.
841
01:02:03,926 --> 01:02:06,126
And again, it's like rebels have taken over the city
842
01:02:06,126 --> 01:02:06,686
that I live in.
843
01:02:06,746 --> 01:02:08,926
Like this isn't everybody's lived experience.
844
01:02:09,386 --> 01:02:10,586
And if you're gonna,
845
01:02:11,026 --> 01:02:12,826
let's just say some academic reads that,
846
01:02:12,906 --> 01:02:14,806
I'm not trying to like start beef with academics,
847
01:02:14,986 --> 01:02:16,306
but like I said, I have a little bit of trauma
848
01:02:16,306 --> 01:02:17,166
around that still.
849
01:02:17,566 --> 01:02:18,846
Some academic reads that,
850
01:02:18,846 --> 01:02:24,126
Some academic that's just hell bent on saying Bitcoin is only for money launderers and this and that and blah, blah, blah.
851
01:02:24,466 --> 01:02:29,946
And they read about Bitcoin being like a financial tool, a monetary tool that people can use when...
852
01:02:29,982 --> 01:02:34,322
when a city has been taken over by rebels and people don't have any other reasons.
853
01:02:34,702 --> 01:02:38,982
If you're going to be against that, you have an immense amount of work to do on yourself.
854
01:02:39,102 --> 01:02:39,942
That's all I can say.
855
01:02:40,002 --> 01:02:40,922
And I don't mean that meanly.
856
01:02:40,962 --> 01:02:42,682
You just have a lot of work to do on yourself.
857
01:02:43,262 --> 01:02:46,722
So I feel that my job, there's also another woman, Tandi.
858
01:02:46,942 --> 01:02:48,142
I'm going to shout out Tandi.
859
01:02:48,342 --> 01:02:51,202
I'm not going to try to pronounce her last name because I'm going to butcher it.
860
01:02:51,202 --> 01:02:54,922
And Tandi M. from the Women of Satoshi Cooperative in Malawi.
861
01:02:55,342 --> 01:03:06,442
Tandi is in rural Malawi right now going around, working especially with women who are either illiterate, didn't finish formal schooling, making sure that they understand what Bitcoin is, how to use FETI and all this kind of stuff.
862
01:03:06,662 --> 01:03:07,622
These are saints.
863
01:03:07,902 --> 01:03:09,202
These are saints in our world.
864
01:03:09,202 --> 01:03:12,762
People that are that selfish, self, not selfish, selfless.
865
01:03:13,102 --> 01:03:14,462
These are really beautiful things.
866
01:03:14,562 --> 01:03:19,722
The Royal Mahboobs of the world, the Faridas of the world, the Lorraine Marcells of the world.
867
01:03:20,082 --> 01:03:24,182
These are when you're in their presence, you feel how beautiful these people are.
868
01:03:24,182 --> 01:03:48,102
It's not a, oh, that's so nice what you do. You feel it. It's a deep feeling of like you're a saint. You're a wonderful human being. And so when I think about sometimes I get frustrated because I'm like, why don't more people want to tell these stories? And then part of me is just like, dude, there's nothing to be mad about there. Like if the world is giving you all those stories to tell, like just say thank you and keep telling them, you know, just keep just keep sharing them as much as you can.
869
01:03:48,102 --> 01:03:59,782
And it's truly a blessing because I think when humanity on a larger level wakes up to what Bitcoin is and they see and experience all of these stories, I think it's going to bring many people to tears.
870
01:03:59,982 --> 01:04:03,242
I think it's truly going to bring many people to tears and it's going to heal.
871
01:04:03,482 --> 01:04:12,302
It's not only helping people in communities around the world on various levels, but the people that see that beauty, it helps them heal as well.
872
01:04:12,422 --> 01:04:15,002
It discharges whatever emotions they've been holding on to.
873
01:04:15,002 --> 01:04:22,782
They see this beauty in the world and that beauty not overrides, it transmutes all of the negative energy that they're holding on to in their body.
874
01:04:23,102 --> 01:04:28,182
Again, I almost want to say like, please don't release this podcast because everyone's going to think I'm totally insane.
875
01:04:28,262 --> 01:04:30,742
But this is how I think about Bitcoin and the work that I do.
876
01:04:30,982 --> 01:04:33,102
I totally agree with you. And I can attest to that.
877
01:04:33,182 --> 01:04:36,122
Just a couple of days ago, I was at a Fetty intro workshop.
878
01:04:36,122 --> 01:04:39,742
So I totally get the community vibe and the passion.
879
01:04:39,742 --> 01:04:46,342
And that was really a great opportunity for me to learn more about Fetty because I know about Fetty, know about what they were doing.
880
01:04:46,482 --> 01:05:08,222
But it's so much depth to dig around in the application, to create your own space and to see the practicality aspect of it and to put it situation based and see if I were in this position, this can really be a huge, huge helper that no other tools or very few tools that have covered in the Bitcoin space.
881
01:05:08,222 --> 01:05:12,842
So definitely really grateful for all of the amazing work the Fedi team has been doing.
882
01:05:13,642 --> 01:05:15,842
And yeah, like you're right.
883
01:05:15,922 --> 01:05:17,942
It's about the transformation.
884
01:05:18,422 --> 01:05:24,642
It's about doing in ways to really help ourselves and help the people around us.
885
01:05:24,822 --> 01:05:32,962
And you've spent years observing people trying to improve their lives through education, through politics, entrepreneurship, community building, Bitcoin, like name it.
886
01:05:32,962 --> 01:05:43,902
And many people want change, but far fewer seem to experience or appreciate the ups and downs of the real transformation.
887
01:05:45,102 --> 01:05:55,122
And then being in the grassroots, being in the institutional setting, you have seen Bitcoin being adapted from ground up and top down.
888
01:05:55,122 --> 01:06:04,302
And this is a question that oftentimes gets debated in the Bitcoin industry, is that where the impact is actually coming from?
889
01:06:04,402 --> 01:06:09,642
So after everything you've seen, where do you think lasting change actually comes from?
890
01:06:09,842 --> 01:06:12,062
Yeah, I don't have a simple answer to that, unfortunately.
891
01:06:12,422 --> 01:06:13,462
I think it comes from both.
892
01:06:13,682 --> 01:06:17,502
I think it's important that we engage with our elected officials.
893
01:06:17,942 --> 01:06:19,002
We live in a civil society.
894
01:06:19,082 --> 01:06:23,042
I'm going to shout out Ludmila Koslowska, the president of the Open Dialogue Foundation.
895
01:06:23,042 --> 01:06:28,902
Ludmela does she does amazing amazing amazing work not only advocating for bitcoin globally but
896
01:06:28,902 --> 01:06:35,662
freedom tech so like even what's happening right now in the uk with the digital id laws trying to
897
01:06:35,662 --> 01:06:39,522
children under 16 can't use social media and all this kind of stuff you know she's someone who
898
01:06:39,522 --> 01:06:44,222
understands that this is not about the children this is about digital id and everybody having to
899
01:06:44,222 --> 01:06:48,202
whatever scan their face to get on the internet and she's one of the people on the front lines of
900
01:06:48,202 --> 01:06:54,302
making sure that this does not go any further. And it is very thankless work a lot of the time.
901
01:06:54,382 --> 01:06:58,702
But what she said to me is something very powerful. And she's like, we live in a civil society. This
902
01:06:58,702 --> 01:07:03,302
is how things get done in a civil society on a policy level. And that's really, really important
903
01:07:03,302 --> 01:07:08,182
to look at things like that. So I'm not looking to live in a completely lawless culture where
904
01:07:08,182 --> 01:07:12,482
there are no laws. I'm looking to, I will have conversations with people. There might come a
905
01:07:12,482 --> 01:07:17,262
point where there needs to be civil disobedience. If I were living in Illinois and I couldn't get
906
01:07:17,262 --> 01:07:21,722
out. Maybe I have to spend a few years in jail or something because I made a Bitcoin transaction,
907
01:07:21,842 --> 01:07:26,142
as scary as that is to say out loud, but to prove a point. But I think that it has to happen from
908
01:07:26,142 --> 01:07:31,322
both places. I love the work that the Bitcoin Policy Institute does. High integrity people
909
01:07:31,322 --> 01:07:35,682
doing amazing work, teaching members of our government about Bitcoin. I love the work that's
910
01:07:35,682 --> 01:07:47,625
happening in Afribit in Kibera I love the work that happening I love what the model that was created in Bitcoin Beach the Bitcoin circular economy model Just got off a call yesterday with my friend Herman from Bitcoin Akazi I love all of it
911
01:07:47,805 --> 01:07:49,085
I think it's all really important.
912
01:07:49,345 --> 01:07:59,085
If anybody is out there furthering, you know, really being present to people and educating people about what Bitcoin is, teaching them how to use it, how to experience it, not just teaching them about it theoretically.
913
01:07:59,345 --> 01:08:00,865
I think that you're doing good work.
914
01:08:00,965 --> 01:08:02,405
And that's not the only thing that's good work.
915
01:08:02,405 --> 01:08:04,425
There's other people doing all sorts of good work in the world.
916
01:08:04,425 --> 01:08:11,005
But as far as this pertains to Bitcoin, I don't know if one is more important than the other, the top down or the bottom up.
917
01:08:11,265 --> 01:08:13,025
Just do whatever feels right.
918
01:08:13,165 --> 01:08:14,025
And that's from your heart.
919
01:08:14,365 --> 01:08:18,625
I believe John Dennehy, who founded Me Premier Bitcoin, that's what he was supposed to do.
920
01:08:18,725 --> 01:08:23,325
He was supposed to create the biggest open source Bitcoin education platform the world has ever seen.
921
01:08:23,425 --> 01:08:27,385
I believe David Zell, who founded the Bitcoin Policy Institute, that's what he was supposed to do.
922
01:08:27,425 --> 01:08:29,245
He was supposed to interface with all these people.
923
01:08:29,245 --> 01:08:48,965
I believe Frank Corva, even though he really loves writing about Bitcoin in Africa and Southeast Asia and everything else, should go to the White House and speak on behalf of Bitcoiners globally. So I think that's just the way it is. We need to have conversations with people at all levels. And on a quick note there, I'm not going to comment on the administration or my feelings or my political beliefs or anything.
924
01:08:48,965 --> 01:08:53,785
but there's one thing that does come to mind a lot there's you know there was a lot of people in
925
01:08:53,785 --> 01:08:58,905
my life that were like how could you do this how blah blah blah and one the people that i did
926
01:08:58,905 --> 01:09:02,925
interface with they were all very kind to me like the people in the white house so i don't have any
927
01:09:02,925 --> 01:09:07,825
i don't have any on a personal level i don't have anything negative to say on i've voiced some other
928
01:09:07,825 --> 01:09:11,545
issues you know i think some of the stuff with ice and what we saw in minneapolis this year was
929
01:09:11,545 --> 01:09:15,685
very concerning to me and i said stuff about that publicly but the people that i interface with were
930
01:09:15,685 --> 01:09:21,865
very nice. And I think deep down, again, we're all an extension of an eternal love. And I think that
931
01:09:21,865 --> 01:09:26,785
they're doing the best that they can do as we all are. Two, I'm spacing out on your question again,
932
01:09:26,805 --> 01:09:33,585
and I really wanted to answer it. It was the top down and bottom up stuff. I've told the story a
933
01:09:33,585 --> 01:09:38,365
few times, but there was a day that I was in the White House press room and Carolyn Levitt called
934
01:09:38,365 --> 01:09:44,745
on me and she asked me a question. I forget what it was. Frank, it was around the week that the
935
01:09:44,745 --> 01:09:48,285
the Genius Act was being signed. And I said to her, I said, is the president still
936
01:09:48,285 --> 01:09:54,585
considering the de minimis tax exemption for Bitcoin? And she said, yes, blah, blah, blah.
937
01:09:54,665 --> 01:09:58,305
And it's like, this was a moment in Bitcoin history. And I remember as it was happening,
938
01:09:59,245 --> 01:10:04,285
one, I'll give you a really funny sort of inside information on this. So they did ask me to come
939
01:10:04,285 --> 01:10:07,825
in. There was no like, this is the question you're going to ask and blah, blah, blah. They did ask
940
01:10:07,825 --> 01:10:12,165
me to come in because it was like crypto week in DC and they wanted to have somebody from the broader
941
01:10:12,165 --> 01:10:16,425
crypto industry in the, you know, asking a question, which was great. I was honored. They
942
01:10:16,425 --> 01:10:19,805
called me the night before, jumped on a train the next morning, but they were, they allowed me to
943
01:10:19,805 --> 01:10:23,665
ask whatever I wanted to ask. There was no like, you have to say this and we're going to say this
944
01:10:23,665 --> 01:10:28,225
and blah, blah, blah. It wasn't like that. So, but what was weird was she started the press
945
01:10:28,225 --> 01:10:32,525
conference off by saying like, and we have Frank Corvo from Bitcoin Magazine here today. And I
946
01:10:32,525 --> 01:10:38,565
remember as it was happening, I'm like, am I on drugs? Like, am I, it's just like, it's just,
947
01:10:38,565 --> 01:10:43,465
But totally calm, just like, what is happening right now?
948
01:10:43,905 --> 01:10:56,025
And when I asked that question, I got messages from all over the world, Peru, South Africa, whatever, people being like, yo, our government is going to see this and they need to see this.
949
01:10:56,205 --> 01:10:59,625
They just heard the White House talking about Bitcoin as money.
950
01:10:59,865 --> 01:11:01,785
That is going to have a profound effect on people.
951
01:11:02,005 --> 01:11:03,485
It wasn't like North America.
952
01:11:03,545 --> 01:11:06,245
I mean, some people from the industry got in touch and said nice things or whatever.
953
01:11:06,245 --> 01:11:17,685
Like many people said nice things, but but it was a lot of international people who and this is around the time when we sort of were quite hopeful with what we'd see accomplished from the administration and stuff like that.
954
01:11:17,725 --> 01:11:23,065
And some of that stuff has come to fruition, which is great. But there was this feeling of like the world is still paying attention.
955
01:11:23,065 --> 01:11:30,245
And more than that, I actually felt this sense of calmness like that's why I'm here. I'm not just here for American Bitcoiners. I'm not just here for whatever.
956
01:11:30,245 --> 01:11:41,385
Like I'm here to to have these conversations with people at this level and to make it known that there is a huge contingent of people on planet Earth that believe in Bitcoin as money, that want it used as money.
957
01:11:41,585 --> 01:11:45,245
And I'm not going to be here saying you better make it money tomorrow and start a fight with them.
958
01:11:45,545 --> 01:11:48,225
I'm just going to try to hold the president to his word.
959
01:11:48,345 --> 01:11:54,025
I think Trump was in the Oval Office a few weeks before that, talking about putting a de minimis exemption into the big, beautiful bill.
960
01:11:54,205 --> 01:11:56,185
He said, hey, we would really love that.
961
01:11:56,285 --> 01:11:58,205
We would love if he could actually do that.
962
01:11:58,205 --> 01:12:04,765
And I know a lot of people these days, they've been piling on David Bailey for multiple reasons and everything else.
963
01:12:05,125 --> 01:12:10,745
But the only reason Trump said that that day, hey, we might put the de minimis exemption in it, that's David in his ear.
964
01:12:10,885 --> 01:12:17,765
And David has played a really important role because he's been the one Bitcoin-only voice amongst the broader crypto industry.
965
01:12:17,965 --> 01:12:22,165
That is a really difficult role to play because that broader crypto lobby is very, very powerful.
966
01:12:22,465 --> 01:12:25,645
So I've been in the rooms with David and that lobby and all that kind of stuff.
967
01:12:25,645 --> 01:12:27,245
and the role that David has had to play
968
01:12:27,245 --> 01:12:28,325
has been very, very difficult.
969
01:12:28,525 --> 01:12:30,125
But I think that to answer your question,
970
01:12:30,205 --> 01:12:32,065
one, top down, bottom up, both important.
971
01:12:32,765 --> 01:12:35,125
Also for everyone who wants to get mad at David Bailey
972
01:12:35,125 --> 01:12:35,665
and blah, blah, blah,
973
01:12:35,665 --> 01:12:37,965
understand that he took a massive risk
974
01:12:37,965 --> 01:12:40,265
in interfacing with the most powerful government on earth
975
01:12:40,265 --> 01:12:42,765
for the sake of Bitcoin and advocated for Bitcoin.
976
01:12:43,005 --> 01:12:44,605
Very, very difficult to do.
977
01:12:44,845 --> 01:12:46,645
Very, very difficult decision to make.
978
01:12:46,985 --> 01:12:49,005
So try not to think about it in terms of a binary.
979
01:12:49,185 --> 01:12:59,708
David Bailey is all bad or all good or this or that He did the best he could with the situation at hand And knowing what I know without getting into it I think things from a Bitcoin perspective
980
01:13:00,068 --> 01:13:04,028
strictly a Bitcoin perspective, would have been very, very difficult under a different
981
01:13:04,028 --> 01:13:08,488
administration. And I'm not saying you have to like or dislike or whatever Trump, Harris,
982
01:13:08,548 --> 01:13:12,308
that's not the point I'm trying to make here. It's just that we all make our decisions. We
983
01:13:12,308 --> 01:13:16,788
defend things that we love in this world. A lot of us really love Bitcoin. And for people like
984
01:13:16,788 --> 01:13:21,028
myself, who their dream job was not to be a White House correspondent. They just somehow found
985
01:13:21,028 --> 01:13:25,428
themselves in that role. They did the best they could. I did the best I could in trying to
986
01:13:25,428 --> 01:13:30,028
represent, I think, Bitcoin's core values and what it really is to people who either didn't
987
01:13:30,028 --> 01:13:35,508
understand it or maybe didn't like it or whatever. And, you know, we do the best we can to push
988
01:13:35,508 --> 01:13:40,688
things forward in the ways that we feel we can be most effective. Yeah. So super. A lot of
989
01:13:40,688 --> 01:13:46,468
appreciation goes to you, Frank, to take that spot and play that role, not only for yourself,
990
01:13:46,468 --> 01:13:51,708
finding yourself in that position trying to get by but really on behalf of bitcoiners and hoping
991
01:13:51,708 --> 01:13:59,048
for the the best future ever for bitcoin and bitcoiners and whoever it's about to impact in
992
01:13:59,048 --> 01:14:05,628
in the broader world as an extension of eternal love right and and it's it's when we see change
993
01:14:05,628 --> 01:14:11,108
and one thing that realized over the past five and a half years in bitcoin like just very intense
994
01:14:11,108 --> 01:14:17,788
lifestyle and and what i realized is that you have to be in the room sometimes and it's not about
995
01:14:17,788 --> 01:14:24,668
it's not about the room itself is life is continuous and then we find ourselves beyond
996
01:14:24,668 --> 01:14:28,828
the this is beyond the bitcoin lens like we as human beings like navigating in this world
997
01:14:28,828 --> 01:14:35,548
beyond ourselves with interacting with everything that's outside of us but really also us to the
998
01:14:35,548 --> 01:14:41,808
level of things take shape one after another. And you are in this room for whatever reason,
999
01:14:42,448 --> 01:14:46,988
and you don't know what you're in there for. And you find yourself there and you start talking to
1000
01:14:46,988 --> 01:14:52,508
people and then they lead you somewhere else. Whatever happens in this room lead you to the
1001
01:14:52,508 --> 01:14:58,828
next room. It's never about this room. And if you get frustrated about whatever room it is,
1002
01:14:58,868 --> 01:15:03,948
it's being too far, we're too dirty, we're not enough furniture, like no chair, nowhere to sit,
1003
01:15:03,948 --> 01:15:08,748
no coffee like you go on right that you can go on the list and find find reasons why you don't want
1004
01:15:08,748 --> 01:15:16,348
to go there but ultimately what's what's next to to that you won't have access to because you refuse
1005
01:15:16,348 --> 01:15:21,848
to go there it's just like you're playing a video game you can't get to the next level without going
1006
01:15:21,848 --> 01:15:29,908
through this this path and that's yes that's the very point of the journey and this is how i'm being
1007
01:15:29,908 --> 01:15:34,928
deterministic here. Like there's a reason I'm in this position, shitty position it is or great
1008
01:15:34,928 --> 01:15:42,028
position it is like I'm trying to, I also try to remind myself not to get over my feet, like get my
1009
01:15:42,028 --> 01:15:48,568
feet totally like swept away when it's when the time is good, because it's fluid. And I'm even
1010
01:15:48,568 --> 01:15:53,348
myself here is the vehicle is an instrument for something that's bigger. And I think you have the
1011
01:15:53,348 --> 01:16:01,768
same revelation and take that responsibility through ourselves being instrument and as much
1012
01:16:01,768 --> 01:16:07,588
as possible while taking care of ourselves for sustainability, for sovereignty as an individual.
1013
01:16:07,588 --> 01:16:11,808
But on the grand scheme of things, we're really the vessel, we're really the instrument there.
1014
01:16:11,808 --> 01:16:18,868
And I see people start to act differently, start to believe in different things once they
1015
01:16:18,868 --> 01:16:25,108
kind of make that mental shift. So question here, you've spent years in environments where people
1016
01:16:25,108 --> 01:16:31,268
face poverty, political division, instability and limited opportunity. And you've also spent time
1017
01:16:31,268 --> 01:16:37,048
around some of the most optimistic people and capable people in Bitcoin. So the question is,
1018
01:16:37,368 --> 01:16:45,548
what keeps people hopeful? And what have you seen people do once they genuinely believe a better
1019
01:16:45,548 --> 01:16:53,028
future is possible either is through bitcoin or or just once they restore that hope in themselves
1020
01:16:53,028 --> 01:16:58,828
through love or bitcoin or whatever endeavors what do they do next that's a great great question
1021
01:16:58,828 --> 01:17:04,568
there's the first thing that comes to mind is this moment that i had i had a gentleman named
1022
01:17:04,568 --> 01:17:11,188
luthando nabambi on my podcast this was before i even joined bitcoin magazine and luthando nabambi
1023
01:17:11,188 --> 01:17:17,508
is the person who has onboarded most of the shops in Bitcoin Akazi, which is one of the first
1024
01:17:17,508 --> 01:17:22,808
circular economies in Africa, first Bitcoin circular economies in Africa. And Hermann told
1025
01:17:22,808 --> 01:17:28,488
me this story about how not only had Bitcoin physically changed his life, he moved out of a
1026
01:17:28,488 --> 01:17:33,288
house with a very poor structure, I think no plumbing, to a proper place because he had saved
1027
01:17:33,288 --> 01:17:37,468
in Bitcoin and it financially had helped him in that regard. That was great. He quit drinking
1028
01:17:37,468 --> 01:17:41,068
because of Bitcoin, because he said, I'm not going to waste my money on that. I'm going to
1029
01:17:41,068 --> 01:17:46,268
save it in Bitcoin and I'm going to save it for my child who I now spend more time with thanks to
1030
01:17:46,268 --> 01:17:52,248
Bitcoin. I have more free time, again, savings, a little bit more purchasing power, not having to
1031
01:17:52,248 --> 01:17:57,548
hustle as much. I spend more time with my partner because of Bitcoin. I don't go out to the club.
1032
01:17:57,748 --> 01:18:01,208
I don't go out and do all this other stuff that I just feel like would be a waste of my time and
1033
01:18:01,208 --> 01:18:13,231
energy And in that moment I had this feeling I have a lot of family members who are a little bit more traditionally on the left and that the idea of Bitcoin is just abhorrent to them that the government can fix
1034
01:18:13,231 --> 01:18:18,551
everything is just like beyond their imagination. And I say it with some frustration. I love them,
1035
01:18:19,131 --> 01:18:23,371
you know, these members of my family, but it can be a little bit frustrating for them to not
1036
01:18:23,371 --> 01:18:27,891
give Bitcoin the credit it deserves, especially when it comes straight from the mouth of somebody
1037
01:18:27,891 --> 01:18:30,251
who's living in a very vulnerable situation,
1038
01:18:30,391 --> 01:18:33,191
a black South African who lived under apartheid,
1039
01:18:33,231 --> 01:18:36,051
whose life is now markedly better because of Bitcoin.
1040
01:18:36,271 --> 01:18:39,211
When I heard that, I got this feeling in my stomach.
1041
01:18:39,531 --> 01:18:41,611
It was actually a lack of a feeling in my stomach.
1042
01:18:42,091 --> 01:18:43,131
It was just this peace.
1043
01:18:43,431 --> 01:18:45,631
It was like, okay, I get it.
1044
01:18:45,771 --> 01:18:47,271
Like I get what I'm here to do.
1045
01:18:47,771 --> 01:18:50,951
I'm here to help people tell as many of these stories
1046
01:18:50,951 --> 01:18:53,851
as possible, to help as many of these stories exist
1047
01:18:53,851 --> 01:18:54,991
and to defend Bitcoin
1048
01:18:54,991 --> 01:18:57,471
because it's gonna take all of us to defend it.
1049
01:18:57,471 --> 01:19:08,391
And to make sure we do the best we can do to have a billion other stories, seven billion other stories like Luthan Nonobambi, where somebody's life has become better on multiple levels.
1050
01:19:08,391 --> 01:19:17,371
And they've chosen for Bitcoin to be a catalyst in their life, for them to make certain changes where their personal life, their relationships are better, their physical life is better.
1051
01:19:17,631 --> 01:19:18,511
All of these things.
1052
01:19:18,511 --> 01:19:24,211
And this is someone who, when he first learned about Bitcoin, he was joking with me in that conversation.
1053
01:19:24,211 --> 01:19:28,971
He's like, dude, Herman came to me and he's telling me about some guy named Satoshi and this and that.
1054
01:19:29,131 --> 01:19:31,371
Like zero idea. Zero, zero idea.
1055
01:19:31,511 --> 01:19:35,211
Like didn't know what it was. Didn't graduate from an educational standpoint.
1056
01:19:35,331 --> 01:19:37,071
I don't think Luthando graduated from high school.
1057
01:19:37,531 --> 01:19:41,751
So it wasn't like he was just able to very quickly grasp every single one of these concepts.
1058
01:19:41,951 --> 01:19:43,811
But he spent the time and he did it.
1059
01:19:43,991 --> 01:19:49,671
And I say this because I think you asked me, like, what do you see from some of the most optimistic people as well as some people in vulnerable positions?
1060
01:19:49,671 --> 01:19:56,331
I think Lutando is a perfect example of a deeply optimistic human being who also came from one of those vulnerable positions.
1061
01:19:56,571 --> 01:20:09,031
I think most of the people that I met in Kibera, Rani Maduida, people who have been working in poor communities and in vulnerable communities for a while who start to see the transformative effect of Bitcoin.
1062
01:20:09,031 --> 01:20:14,191
One of the things that you get from some of the women in Kibera is I'm saving from my child's education.
1063
01:20:14,571 --> 01:20:21,671
It's one of the most beautiful, beautiful, beautiful things about Bitcoin, especially especially I'll say Bitcoin in Africa and Latin America.
1064
01:20:22,831 --> 01:20:25,191
Is it's not about the person who's saving it.
1065
01:20:25,311 --> 01:20:26,711
They want better for their family.
1066
01:20:26,911 --> 01:20:29,651
They want better for their children, future generations.
1067
01:20:30,271 --> 01:20:33,951
And that's really like that's the Bitcoin story.
1068
01:20:34,251 --> 01:20:37,031
And that's what at some point the American dream was that, right?
1069
01:20:37,031 --> 01:20:45,411
You want it better for your children than you had. And what you're getting, I'm hesitant to use that term, but you're getting some version of that globally now.
1070
01:20:45,551 --> 01:20:51,471
Oh, wait, you're saying if I save this for a period of time, my child isn't going to have to go through the same struggles I went through.
1071
01:20:52,031 --> 01:20:59,191
Sign me up, like sign me up. I'm in and I'm going to make changes in my life to make sure I hold on to a chunk of this for my children.
1072
01:20:59,191 --> 01:21:02,911
But what does that come with? It comes with that needs to be defended.
1073
01:21:03,411 --> 01:21:07,451
People in that sort of situation, sure, they can take part in defending it, not saying that.
1074
01:21:07,711 --> 01:21:11,731
But oftentimes, they're still in a hustle that's far more of a hustle than my hustle.
1075
01:21:12,111 --> 01:21:13,511
So what can I do in the meantime?
1076
01:21:13,851 --> 01:21:15,731
I can go and interface with the powers that be.
1077
01:21:15,731 --> 01:21:23,671
I can make sure we're protecting developers who help people around the world transact more privately to maintain their anonymity, to maintain their privacy.
1078
01:21:24,131 --> 01:21:26,631
So it's like we all have a job to do.
1079
01:21:27,231 --> 01:21:29,731
I've become personally far more optimistic.
1080
01:21:29,891 --> 01:21:32,311
I was way more nihilistic before I found Bitcoin.
1081
01:21:32,311 --> 01:21:34,311
I'm far more optimistic now
1082
01:21:34,311 --> 01:21:35,931
So I'm one of those optimistic people
1083
01:21:35,931 --> 01:21:37,691
And then I think that there's
1084
01:21:37,691 --> 01:21:40,271
With other people
1085
01:21:40,271 --> 01:21:41,431
I think there's also maybe
1086
01:21:41,431 --> 01:21:43,731
Not a false optimism
1087
01:21:43,731 --> 01:21:46,071
But an optimism that hasn't been tested enough
1088
01:21:46,071 --> 01:21:47,551
Meaning some people
1089
01:21:47,551 --> 01:21:49,171
What I struggle with with some of
1090
01:21:49,171 --> 01:21:50,331
Especially the bigger
1091
01:21:50,331 --> 01:21:53,471
Bitcoin podcasts where there's a lot of like
1092
01:21:53,471 --> 01:21:54,651
Yeah and fill us out
1093
01:21:54,651 --> 01:21:55,811
Bitcoin's going to change the world
1094
01:21:55,811 --> 01:21:56,391
It's going to do this
1095
01:21:56,391 --> 01:21:59,551
Sometimes I think you're sort of brushing over
1096
01:21:59,551 --> 01:22:01,051
Also how difficult it is
1097
01:22:01,051 --> 01:22:05,331
to make the changes within yourself to allow Bitcoin to quote unquote change the world.
1098
01:22:05,651 --> 01:22:11,051
And or how difficult it is to actually properly educate people around the world about Bitcoin
1099
01:22:11,051 --> 01:22:13,671
and best practices and self-custody and all of these things.
1100
01:22:13,831 --> 01:22:17,911
It's great to orange pill your taxi driver when you're in Peru next week or something.
1101
01:22:17,991 --> 01:22:21,171
But if there's never any follow up there and that guy just has no idea what to do with
1102
01:22:21,171 --> 01:22:25,551
this wallet of Satoshi thing you just had him download, like it's not the same sort
1103
01:22:25,551 --> 01:22:25,871
of thing.
1104
01:22:25,971 --> 01:22:30,471
There's a lot of legwork to be done when it comes to getting people to at least get on
1105
01:22:30,471 --> 01:22:36,291
a path where they can, they're like, okay, they at least know where the resources are to educate
1106
01:22:36,291 --> 01:22:40,191
themselves more and all that kind of stuff. So I would say for those who are overly optimistic
1107
01:22:40,191 --> 01:22:45,511
that Bitcoin has already won and Bitcoin is inevitable, I personally, I don't go that far
1108
01:22:45,511 --> 01:22:50,311
with it. And what I would say there is if you feel that way, test that out, go and teach somebody
1109
01:22:50,311 --> 01:22:55,011
who, go and teach somebody about it and see what their reaction to it is. I mean, most people will
1110
01:22:55,011 --> 01:22:59,511
tell you, most Bitcoiners will tell you like, I can't get most members of my family to understand
1111
01:22:59,511 --> 01:23:03,991
this thing. It's like, well, then is it really that inevitable? Are we really on that trajectory?
1112
01:23:05,511 --> 01:23:10,791
I think that there's, test your optimism. See if your optimism is warranted. Let me put it that way.
1113
01:23:10,791 --> 01:23:15,911
But then also in that process, you'll come across other people whose optimism is very much
1114
01:23:15,911 --> 01:23:19,951
warranted, who's had a lived experience that has been quite challenging,
1115
01:23:19,993 --> 01:23:23,613
and who feels quite different as a result of Bitcoin being a part of their life.
1116
01:23:23,773 --> 01:23:29,193
So it's a journey that you should go on, test it, and let it unfold you in the process.
1117
01:23:29,353 --> 01:23:32,973
I think there's a little bit of a risk there when it comes to relying on community.
1118
01:23:33,173 --> 01:23:36,233
Because, for example, I didn't grow up with a sense of community.
1119
01:23:36,613 --> 01:23:43,693
Everybody was, in my circle, fairly isolated in their small family, not even extended family.
1120
01:23:44,273 --> 01:23:49,173
And you live in cities where you don't really necessarily know your neighbors.
1121
01:23:49,173 --> 01:23:51,293
And it's not like a community at all.
1122
01:23:51,533 --> 01:24:00,613
And it was really until me in Bitcoin community when I started to grasp the concept of what is a community and what it does.
1123
01:24:00,913 --> 01:24:09,753
And then I feel like people, a lot of people who come in Bitcoin community, they already recognize the community aspect of it and they love it.
1124
01:24:10,013 --> 01:24:13,993
But they're outsourcing personal responsibilities a little bit.
1125
01:24:13,993 --> 01:24:16,213
Like I can see it from some people there.
1126
01:24:16,633 --> 01:24:28,073
They're like whenever they're in deep, deep trouble or in a situation where they need some support or some kindness or some love or some stats.
1127
01:24:28,073 --> 01:24:31,753
And they come to the community and say, big winners, please help me.
1128
01:24:32,073 --> 01:24:35,013
And expecting support from communities.
1129
01:24:35,213 --> 01:24:39,653
And then later on, like I believe I genuinely believe like do ask for help.
1130
01:24:39,653 --> 01:24:41,393
And it's really, really important.
1131
01:24:41,393 --> 01:24:45,913
but I also see people get into the situation where they do that and then they get support
1132
01:24:45,913 --> 01:24:51,553
and then they would say oh some true big winters sorted me out you know what I mean like it's we
1133
01:24:51,553 --> 01:24:59,953
big winters don't owe each other in that in that sense to to agree right like if you get support
1134
01:24:59,953 --> 01:25:04,153
like good for you and I'm happy for you like the community is happy that one of the community
1135
01:25:04,153 --> 01:25:08,833
member is safe and sound and be able to do whatever but to to go to the extent and say
1136
01:25:08,833 --> 01:25:14,913
whoever didn't help me like to even to imply that right like to grow there was not okay for me so
1137
01:25:14,913 --> 01:25:19,773
and then we see that community support this community support this what how are you that's
1138
01:25:19,773 --> 01:25:24,633
one aspect of it and yes we need to support each other from the community level but where is
1139
01:25:24,633 --> 01:25:31,373
are your is your proof of work backing it up yep right like it's yeah well it's also think to
1140
01:25:31,373 --> 01:25:35,553
yourself like if you're going to ask for that how many times have you been there to support someone
1141
01:25:35,553 --> 01:25:40,193
else as well. I think that that's a piece of it. It's not that we're keeping score. It's not a
1142
01:25:40,193 --> 01:25:44,653
tally chart, but it's oftentimes, if we're looking for something, it's also important to reflect on
1143
01:25:44,653 --> 01:25:47,973
how much we're giving that thing we're looking for, how much we have given that thing in the
1144
01:25:47,973 --> 01:25:52,233
past. I think it's oftentimes good to reflect, to look inward a little bit there before we start
1145
01:25:52,233 --> 01:25:56,233
throwing stones at all the Bitcoiners who didn't help, quote unquote. I think that's a really,
1146
01:25:56,233 --> 01:26:01,193
really good way to look at it. And I think giving in and of itself, and even if you do give,
1147
01:26:01,193 --> 01:26:04,613
Do not give in the expectations that you will one day get back.
1148
01:26:04,713 --> 01:26:05,953
That is not the reason to do it.
1149
01:26:06,353 --> 01:26:07,313
That's not the reason.
1150
01:26:07,713 --> 01:26:10,173
But yeah, I think that that's definitely a thing.
1151
01:26:10,593 --> 01:26:12,913
And it's a human ego thing.
1152
01:26:13,013 --> 01:26:14,353
Maybe it's a feeling of vulnerability.
1153
01:26:15,233 --> 01:26:16,993
And I'm happy certain people did help.
1154
01:26:17,093 --> 01:26:21,613
But then you also have to just say, look, not everybody's in the position to help all the time for various reasons.
1155
01:26:21,693 --> 01:26:26,053
You have no idea the way they're maybe helping behind the scenes and not publicizing it.
1156
01:26:26,093 --> 01:26:29,413
Or if they're in a tough financial situation themselves and just not making that known.
1157
01:26:29,413 --> 01:26:33,813
just accept that that could be the case and that whoever helped be grateful for that and don't worry
1158
01:26:33,813 --> 01:26:38,133
too much about everyone who didn't and then having a vendetta against all those people
1159
01:26:38,133 --> 01:26:43,553
afterwards as a result not not not going to help you in the long term yeah and it's it's when it
1160
01:26:43,553 --> 01:26:48,373
comes to that it's always it's also about framing right i was reading this post about someone sharing
1161
01:26:48,373 --> 01:26:53,813
their experience like when being on the street and saw this father and son together and they the
1162
01:26:53,813 --> 01:26:58,953
father like dressed really well like suit and clean decent and the kid like too you can see that
1163
01:26:58,953 --> 01:27:04,473
they're fairly well off. And then as the person was walking past them, the dead was pointing at
1164
01:27:04,473 --> 01:27:10,713
the homeless people on the street and said to his son, keep working so that one day you can give
1165
01:27:10,713 --> 01:27:17,693
these people a home. Like that's like the sense of community. And that's the sense of the self
1166
01:27:17,693 --> 01:27:25,173
and proof of work, like where we can channel ourselves, our effort into. And I get it. Like
1167
01:27:25,173 --> 01:27:30,753
sometimes with all of the trauma and fear in ourselves, it's hard to start self-love. Like,
1168
01:27:30,873 --> 01:27:36,833
it's hard to start love to ourselves. But although that's the right way to do it, right? Although you
1169
01:27:36,833 --> 01:27:42,353
want to have overflowing self-love to the point you can extend to others, but some people find it,
1170
01:27:42,413 --> 01:27:47,933
most people find it maybe difficult to start from loving ourselves. Maybe it's easier to love others.
1171
01:27:47,933 --> 01:27:52,973
Maybe it's easier to love our pet, to love our parents, to love our lover, to love our spouse,
1172
01:27:52,973 --> 01:27:56,553
kids. And then we learn to love ourselves through loving them.
1173
01:27:57,173 --> 01:28:02,133
100%. And that's great. I think the other thing, there's a, I don't know why this clicked for me
1174
01:28:02,133 --> 01:28:06,693
so hard. I've read a bunch of other books from that author, Richard Hawkins, the guy who wrote
1175
01:28:06,693 --> 01:28:11,253
Power Versus Force, who I mentioned earlier. And there's a book I'm reading right now where he has
1176
01:28:11,253 --> 01:28:16,553
a very, very simple way of explaining love. Everything is love. It already exists. Love is
1177
01:28:16,553 --> 01:28:23,313
like sunlight. We're either allowing clouds to block it or purposely creating those clouds in
1178
01:28:23,313 --> 01:28:41,450
our life to block it The love comes through automatically That our natural state And I agree with that I really believe this I not just saying it because I read it in a book So it think about the clouds that are in the way Are you putting those clouds there Or sometimes maybe subconsciously like for example part of our evolution
1179
01:28:41,910 --> 01:28:46,170
this has been an unfortunate, not unfortunate, I don't want to say that. Part of getting older,
1180
01:28:46,490 --> 01:28:49,850
some of my friends, even some that I had for a long time, I just realized we were on different
1181
01:28:49,850 --> 01:28:55,430
trajectories. Neither one was better. We were just on different ones. But what was happening
1182
01:28:55,430 --> 01:28:59,750
in that relationship did feel like a cloud. It did feel like a cloud blocking the sunlight.
1183
01:29:00,350 --> 01:29:04,530
It's not, I'm not trying to put them in sort of a negative light there. It just wasn't working for
1184
01:29:04,530 --> 01:29:08,990
me. Maybe it would work with them and someone else. I don't know what it was, but when I took,
1185
01:29:09,330 --> 01:29:13,410
when you take that cloud out of the way, and sometimes clouds can simply be the way we think
1186
01:29:13,410 --> 01:29:17,710
about things. It might be the situations we put ourselves in. It could be a number of things.
1187
01:29:18,050 --> 01:29:22,470
The natural state then becomes love. The natural state. It's not like, oh, now that I got these
1188
01:29:22,470 --> 01:29:25,490
clouds out of the way. I have to work on love. It's like, no, no, it's just automatic at that
1189
01:29:25,490 --> 01:29:30,490
point. It's just stop thinking. Even a cloud could be a thought that I'm less than, or I don't
1190
01:29:30,490 --> 01:29:35,130
deserve this, or I'm whatever it is. Get those things out of your mind. Understand that those
1191
01:29:35,130 --> 01:29:38,770
are thoughts. That's conditioning. This is something you're telling yourself. This is not
1192
01:29:38,770 --> 01:29:45,270
God Almighty speaking to you, saying you're this or that. And I think doing the best you can to just
1193
01:29:45,270 --> 01:29:50,770
allow the sunlight to come through. That's it. It's there. It wants to come through. It's a natural
1194
01:29:50,770 --> 01:29:55,550
state of things do the best you can to let it come through that's it and and whatever way that
1195
01:29:55,550 --> 01:29:59,690
that works there's no i try i try not to be prescriptive with that for me it's a combination
1196
01:29:59,690 --> 01:30:06,430
of some working out some eating well some yoga some meditation some playing music some talking
1197
01:30:06,430 --> 01:30:10,970
bitcoin whatever it's a bunch of things and for everyone it's going to be different but just try
1198
01:30:10,970 --> 01:30:15,550
to stick to the things that animate you and the things that make you feel calm and and and comfortable
1199
01:30:15,550 --> 01:30:20,110
in your own skin and definitely and seems like you've and the journey that you have come through
1200
01:30:20,110 --> 01:30:35,130
So there's a lot of very tightly packed lessons, lots of side quests, lots of journeys and lots of stories that you told and consequentially had a lot of had this unique experience for yourself.
1201
01:30:35,130 --> 01:30:37,730
So what's next for Frank Corva?
1202
01:30:37,890 --> 01:30:45,890
It's a very good question. I'm going to say this. I can't I'm not trying to make an announcement of an announcement, but I'm going to say it like this.
1203
01:30:45,890 --> 01:30:50,810
I am working on what I believe is going to be the most ambitious project I've ever taken on.
1204
01:30:51,030 --> 01:30:55,490
And if it works, it will also be, I think, well, I don't want to say if it works.
1205
01:30:56,050 --> 01:30:56,770
It's going to work.
1206
01:30:56,790 --> 01:30:57,410
Let me phrase this.
1207
01:30:57,710 --> 01:30:58,370
According to the book.
1208
01:30:58,370 --> 01:30:59,090
Well, we hope so.
1209
01:30:59,630 --> 01:31:00,630
Yeah, we hope so.
1210
01:31:00,810 --> 01:31:02,410
But I'll put it this way.
1211
01:31:02,610 --> 01:31:07,730
I had the thought, and it was similar to that feeling I had when I spoke with Luthando, where I just felt this peace in my body.
1212
01:31:07,870 --> 01:31:09,250
It wasn't like, oh, that's a good idea.
1213
01:31:09,330 --> 01:31:10,370
It wasn't a cognitive thing.
1214
01:31:10,430 --> 01:31:13,070
It was like, no, no, your body is like, dude, that's it.
1215
01:31:13,150 --> 01:31:13,730
That's the path.
1216
01:31:13,770 --> 01:31:14,350
You got to go there.
1217
01:31:14,350 --> 01:31:43,070
It will include, I'll be doing work in a South American country, starting my own business in that country. It will be Bitcoin related, but it'll be much bigger than that as well. If it comes together the way I envision it, it will be a win for all parties involved. In my humble opinion, a deeply symbiotic win, something that would be good for Bitcoin, good for the country, even good for the US, good for all different people involved. And we'll be sharing more about this soon. We're in the process of fundraising and getting everything off the ground right now.
1218
01:31:43,070 --> 01:31:51,650
but it has me so excited and not in like a not in a not in an artificial way and it but it has me
1219
01:31:51,650 --> 01:31:55,610
feeling like i don't want i don't want to keep saying if this thing comes to life because we've
1220
01:31:55,610 --> 01:32:00,350
already done a few we've already gotten over a few hurdles that have been so much easier than we
1221
01:32:00,350 --> 01:32:05,290
thought and it's been like oh it's like this is meant to be like we're gonna go through more
1222
01:32:05,290 --> 01:32:11,030
hurdles too i'm positive it's just the way life is but but thus far the reaction to it has been
1223
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:13,030
And so like, that's what you're going to do.
1224
01:32:13,070 --> 01:32:15,030
Like, I'm in like I'm behind you.
1225
01:32:15,110 --> 01:32:16,450
Like we're like, let's go.
1226
01:32:16,590 --> 01:32:18,650
And again, we'll be sharing it soon.
1227
01:32:18,650 --> 01:32:23,450
But what's the most beautiful thing about it for me is that this is also part of like
1228
01:32:23,450 --> 01:32:25,850
what I've had to get over with the Irish Catholic culture.
1229
01:32:26,050 --> 01:32:27,930
I come from half an Irish Catholic background.
1230
01:32:28,290 --> 01:32:31,730
There's a lot of like the only way to do good in the world is to be a martyr.
1231
01:32:31,970 --> 01:32:33,210
You have to just give up something.
1232
01:32:33,350 --> 01:32:35,870
You have to burn out to light someone else's candle, etc.
1233
01:32:36,410 --> 01:32:37,690
And I don't believe that.
1234
01:32:37,830 --> 01:32:39,010
I really don't believe that.
1235
01:32:39,010 --> 01:32:41,750
And it's taken me a long time to get over that.
1236
01:32:41,870 --> 01:32:45,310
If I wasn't suffering in the process, it wasn't legit.
1237
01:32:45,690 --> 01:32:47,250
And I don't want to live that way.
1238
01:32:47,810 --> 01:32:53,310
I'll quote Jeff Booth, someone I've been very, very lucky to have become a friend of mine.
1239
01:32:53,470 --> 01:32:58,050
And one of my favorite sayings from him is Bitcoin is 8 billion people in service to 8 billion people.
1240
01:32:58,210 --> 01:32:59,610
And I fully believe that.
1241
01:32:59,610 --> 01:33:03,490
And what this would do would be a great example of that.
1242
01:33:03,490 --> 01:33:09,650
and there's going to be a lot of interfacing with characters that I think might be challenging
1243
01:33:09,650 --> 01:33:14,390
to interface with and I'm studying a lot of things right now I'm studying Gandhi right now
1244
01:33:14,390 --> 01:33:20,150
I'm studying like very peaceful yeah I'm just trying to study like look I want to change I know
1245
01:33:20,150 --> 01:33:24,450
some people might be reluctant to see this sort of change or might not fully understand it right
1246
01:33:24,450 --> 01:33:29,890
away and I may have to be in rooms with people that doesn't get it no I don't want to say that
1247
01:33:29,890 --> 01:33:32,630
because I think intuitively they all get it or they all will get it.
1248
01:33:33,310 --> 01:33:35,630
Make it a priority to gold there, I guess.
1249
01:33:35,770 --> 01:33:36,790
Now, I want to say it even differently.
1250
01:33:36,990 --> 01:33:38,150
I'm going to be in rooms.
1251
01:33:38,630 --> 01:33:51,506
So with people who were born into very difficult positions have had to make a lot of really tough choices that they probably didn want to make but they did so for the sake of survival and everything else And now they in positions of power and they in a tough position
1252
01:33:51,746 --> 01:33:56,766
And my voice might be the last thing that they want to listen to, but I'm probably going to have to interface with these people.
1253
01:33:57,006 --> 01:34:04,686
But I look forward to that challenge because if I can do it, and I'm deeply grateful to the likes of David Bailey for giving me the opportunity at the White House,
1254
01:34:04,686 --> 01:34:07,966
because if I didn't do that, I wouldn't have the confidence to do this next thing.
1255
01:34:07,966 --> 01:34:12,186
And I know that the next thing, it's not just going to be like telling lovely stories.
1256
01:34:12,526 --> 01:34:14,266
And this is what Bitcoin is doing for the world.
1257
01:34:14,306 --> 01:34:15,606
It's going to be a real challenge.
1258
01:34:15,746 --> 01:34:19,766
But the most beautiful part about it is it's the first time I get to really contribute.
1259
01:34:19,826 --> 01:34:23,086
Like, I feel like I get to really contribute a beautiful story to Bitcoin.
1260
01:34:23,346 --> 01:34:25,806
And that to me is what motivates me more than anything.
1261
01:34:25,986 --> 01:34:32,146
It's like my job thus far has been telling a lot of these stories and all of that.
1262
01:34:32,146 --> 01:34:39,166
But to be able to give one of these stories to the Bitcoin space, to contribute one of them, would be the biggest honor.
1263
01:34:39,546 --> 01:34:47,726
And not only that, but I would be revisiting a place that I've lived and worked and potentially contributing to that place on a social level.
1264
01:34:48,146 --> 01:34:52,466
So when you put all of that together, and I'm truly excited about that.
1265
01:34:52,526 --> 01:34:56,586
So again, not trying to like create too much drama here by saying all that without of it.
1266
01:34:56,666 --> 01:34:59,346
Once we make the announcement, maybe this will make a little bit more sense.
1267
01:34:59,346 --> 01:35:04,606
but if you can you know send us some good some love and some some some vibes we're doing the
1268
01:35:04,606 --> 01:35:08,726
best we can to get the clouds out of the way right now and to sort of let the love and the
1269
01:35:08,726 --> 01:35:14,186
good vibes guide us and thus far they are and it's coming together so I'm really really excited and
1270
01:35:14,186 --> 01:35:19,246
maybe maybe we can have another chat about that when it's when it has come to fruition definitely
1271
01:35:19,246 --> 01:35:24,426
very very excited for you Frank and whatever you come up with I know with your approach
1272
01:35:24,426 --> 01:35:28,886
and your values and your experience behind you
1273
01:35:28,886 --> 01:35:29,986
in all sorts of rooms,
1274
01:35:30,106 --> 01:35:31,166
seeing all sorts of stories
1275
01:35:31,166 --> 01:35:32,966
and learning from them and making your own.
1276
01:35:33,046 --> 01:35:35,366
And I think that's the ultimate journey
1277
01:35:35,366 --> 01:35:37,486
everybody, Bitcoin or not,
1278
01:35:37,486 --> 01:35:42,006
is that we are all unique already
1279
01:35:42,006 --> 01:35:44,406
in our DNAs, in our surroundings,
1280
01:35:44,406 --> 01:35:46,606
and we're already unique enough.
1281
01:35:46,926 --> 01:35:49,086
And our combination of experience
1282
01:35:49,086 --> 01:35:51,086
ultimately shape us into who we are.
1283
01:35:51,186 --> 01:35:54,046
And that's a continuous journey.
1284
01:35:54,426 --> 01:36:01,206
And for me, like I try to experience time without, I try to experience past, present and future at the same time.
1285
01:36:01,206 --> 01:36:09,366
So you adapt to different mindset when it comes to time to create a better future for ourselves and for others.
1286
01:36:09,666 --> 01:36:22,286
And I think this is where the lesson is for everybody to really look at our experience before and be really, really honest with ourselves on all of the things.
1287
01:36:22,286 --> 01:36:38,086
Like, what have I said before? What have I done to each one on one relationship you had? And then make peace, like be kind to ourselves, make peace to the mistakes we've had and learn from them and strive to do better in the future.
1288
01:36:38,086 --> 01:36:40,426
and then really adapt these learnings
1289
01:36:40,426 --> 01:36:45,326
doing our best every single day for love,
1290
01:36:45,446 --> 01:36:46,706
like for loving ourselves,
1291
01:36:46,906 --> 01:36:48,566
for loving the people that we love,
1292
01:36:48,646 --> 01:36:49,706
for loving the world,
1293
01:36:49,966 --> 01:36:53,226
for wanting to create a better world
1294
01:36:53,226 --> 01:36:55,546
for our love for others, right?
1295
01:36:55,706 --> 01:36:56,566
And through that,
1296
01:36:56,706 --> 01:36:58,946
and we can all find something
1297
01:36:58,946 --> 01:37:01,066
that's only unique to ourselves
1298
01:37:01,066 --> 01:37:02,366
and nobody can do as well.
1299
01:37:02,446 --> 01:37:04,686
So really, really excited for you,
1300
01:37:04,766 --> 01:37:06,786
for your journey, for the next steps
1301
01:37:06,786 --> 01:37:10,046
and really appreciate what you've done
1302
01:37:10,046 --> 01:37:13,706
for Bitcoiners, for yourself, I guess,
1303
01:37:14,166 --> 01:37:16,966
to have all this fun, all this sidequests
1304
01:37:16,966 --> 01:37:19,446
and all these lessons that not only will benefit you,
1305
01:37:19,546 --> 01:37:21,686
but right now all of the Bitcoiners
1306
01:37:21,686 --> 01:37:23,926
who are ready for the teacher.
1307
01:37:24,266 --> 01:37:24,646
We'll see.
1308
01:37:24,826 --> 01:37:25,206
Yeah, we'll see.
1309
01:37:25,266 --> 01:37:26,306
I appreciate all of that.
1310
01:37:26,446 --> 01:37:29,786
And before we wrap up, a quick question, same to you.
1311
01:37:29,906 --> 01:37:32,166
When are the next Ivy Lumi songs coming out?
1312
01:37:32,166 --> 01:37:34,426
This is the real question at hand here.
1313
01:37:34,426 --> 01:37:40,726
Yes, Ivy Lumi is at work, writing new songs, producing new songs.
1314
01:37:41,126 --> 01:37:45,806
At the moment, I'm producing my first long album as a singer-songwriter.
1315
01:37:46,286 --> 01:37:50,506
And that will be a first after the five original song EP, after the singles.
1316
01:37:51,066 --> 01:37:55,286
Right now, the plan is I'll have one or two singles to release.
1317
01:37:55,426 --> 01:37:56,806
We're in production phase.
1318
01:37:57,106 --> 01:38:02,166
And after that, we'll be focusing on creating the full album, creating the visual,
1319
01:38:02,166 --> 01:38:04,306
creating the universe that comes with it.
1320
01:38:04,426 --> 01:38:21,246
And so far, just been really grateful for the community that I'm actively building in the dream world of Ivy Lumi for people to either get exposed to Ivy Lumi's music via Bitcoin or from Noster or just from random places.
1321
01:38:21,246 --> 01:38:28,786
And I hope one day that dream universe will come together while people being inspired to love themselves, love others, love the world.
1322
01:38:28,786 --> 01:38:32,246
they will find Bitcoin on that path.
1323
01:38:32,666 --> 01:38:35,186
And then they can watch live with Bitcoin.
1324
01:38:35,346 --> 01:38:38,406
And now with me and my amazing guests.
1325
01:38:39,066 --> 01:38:40,846
And everybody gets to have a blast, right?
1326
01:38:40,906 --> 01:38:43,966
So that's also like some big plans coming up
1327
01:38:43,966 --> 01:38:46,486
and want to bring everybody and everything together
1328
01:38:46,486 --> 01:38:49,626
for the maximum amount of synergy, maximum amount of impact
1329
01:38:49,626 --> 01:38:52,026
so that people self-help, basically.
1330
01:38:52,286 --> 01:39:08,442
I love it And I super proud of you and motivated I don think I told you this I starting to play music again myself I starting a band here in New York Yeah So yeah we both be getting back into the trenches so to speak in terms of getting music out there into the world
1331
01:39:08,442 --> 01:39:28,582
But I'm really proud of you. And I think that one of the most beautiful things that I saw when I was in the music business, this was a career from many moons ago for me. I started in the music business in 1999, did it through 2006. And one of the things that what's beautiful about it is you meet all different types in that business, just like the Bitcoin space, you meet all different types in the space.
1332
01:39:28,582 --> 01:39:37,242
And it's really, really refreshing when people have a very clear vision and they can articulate it in so many words for what they're trying to accomplish as an artist.
1333
01:39:37,562 --> 01:39:48,382
And you have that. And I think that having that level of intention, knowing exactly what you're trying to accomplish, the way that you accomplish it might end up being a little bit different than you expected.
1334
01:39:48,662 --> 01:39:54,762
Maybe not. No idea. I mean, I'm sure you've had your the way you thought it would go versus the way it has gone sort of moments.
1335
01:39:54,762 --> 01:40:02,102
yeah but but but be grateful it's it's a gift to to to be able to know what you feel and to
1336
01:40:02,102 --> 01:40:07,682
articulate it that that uh that well because it's not coming from a place of ego it's not coming
1337
01:40:07,682 --> 01:40:11,442
from a place of i want to be famous i want to be rich i want to be this there's a real deep
1338
01:40:11,442 --> 01:40:16,902
intention there and people will feel that and it also makes it i had this i knew this one person
1339
01:40:16,902 --> 01:40:22,122
who really wanted to be a poet and he ended up going into teaching instead and and and a lot of
1340
01:40:22,122 --> 01:40:26,202
people really loved him as a teacher and he said something to me once and this this stuck with me
1341
01:40:26,202 --> 01:40:30,442
it kind of haunted haunted me it surely haunted him he said you know i see all these people
1342
01:40:30,442 --> 01:40:35,382
clapping for me in the t as a teacher and i can't feel it like it's just not it doesn't mean anything
1343
01:40:35,382 --> 01:40:38,982
to me and i said to him they're probably not clapping for what you wanted them to be clapping
1344
01:40:38,982 --> 01:40:44,242
for and he just looked at me and he was like oh no like like and i didn't mean to i didn't mean
1345
01:40:44,242 --> 01:40:49,062
i'm not trying to like ruin your life or like whatever but but but but what i would say is this
1346
01:40:49,062 --> 01:40:51,182
like for the people that did contribute to the,
1347
01:40:51,302 --> 01:40:54,022
to the campaign that you did and help you put out your record.
1348
01:40:54,102 --> 01:40:54,662
Those are,
1349
01:40:54,762 --> 01:40:59,282
I'm sure that felt magical and that will feel better than having Madison
1350
01:40:59,282 --> 01:41:01,282
square garden clap for you for the wrong thing.
1351
01:41:01,382 --> 01:41:01,822
You know what I mean?
1352
01:41:01,822 --> 01:41:02,342
For the raw.
1353
01:41:02,342 --> 01:41:02,662
And I,
1354
01:41:02,722 --> 01:41:04,022
and so I think if I could,
1355
01:41:04,262 --> 01:41:08,742
a little piece of like advice is just enjoy each of the small victories.
1356
01:41:08,742 --> 01:41:09,202
That's all.
1357
01:41:09,262 --> 01:41:12,622
Just enjoy each of the little milestones and don't,
1358
01:41:12,742 --> 01:41:14,482
don't move the goalposts when you,
1359
01:41:14,602 --> 01:41:14,842
when you,
1360
01:41:14,922 --> 01:41:15,582
when you do it,
1361
01:41:15,902 --> 01:41:16,962
celebrate them fully,
1362
01:41:16,962 --> 01:41:18,682
then create the next goal,
1363
01:41:18,682 --> 01:41:19,782
but don't move the goal,
1364
01:41:19,842 --> 01:41:21,002
but don't not celebrate them.
1365
01:41:21,162 --> 01:41:22,442
Don't just want more.
1366
01:41:22,902 --> 01:41:24,582
Appreciate the process as you do it.
1367
01:41:24,722 --> 01:41:24,942
Definitely.
1368
01:41:25,022 --> 01:41:25,222
Definitely.
1369
01:41:25,302 --> 01:41:27,022
This is very, very good lesson.
1370
01:41:27,142 --> 01:41:27,862
And last time we chat,
1371
01:41:27,922 --> 01:41:29,142
you gave me this other pointer
1372
01:41:29,142 --> 01:41:33,442
that I revisit every time I work on music.
1373
01:41:33,562 --> 01:41:34,502
Last time you told me
1374
01:41:34,502 --> 01:41:37,022
that one thing you wish that you did more
1375
01:41:37,022 --> 01:41:38,122
in your music career
1376
01:41:38,122 --> 01:41:40,942
was to push a bit more when you could,
1377
01:41:41,182 --> 01:41:41,742
when you could have.
1378
01:41:41,982 --> 01:41:45,522
And it haunts me all the time.
1379
01:41:45,542 --> 01:41:46,902
And every time I make music
1380
01:41:46,902 --> 01:41:48,422
and I'm like, is this my best?
1381
01:41:48,422 --> 01:41:54,322
this is my best am i like living to frank standard no no no no no for for real like so definitely
1382
01:41:54,322 --> 01:41:58,602
like i really appreciate you keeping me accountable here because i need that and i we need these
1383
01:41:58,602 --> 01:42:04,822
source of inspirations and we we need people who who give give us these feedbacks in in the sense
1384
01:42:04,822 --> 01:42:11,242
that they're they're they walked the life before and and and i i completely see it because now i'm
1385
01:42:11,242 --> 01:42:17,042
in it and then sometimes it could be about growth it could be about oh what else i can do and you're
1386
01:42:17,042 --> 01:42:19,302
in this mindset of FOMO a little bit,
1387
01:42:19,782 --> 01:42:22,042
what fear of missing out and wanting to do more.
1388
01:42:22,442 --> 01:42:23,762
But the flip side of it,
1389
01:42:23,822 --> 01:42:25,742
your community is here with you already
1390
01:42:25,742 --> 01:42:28,462
and engage with them and cherish them
1391
01:42:28,462 --> 01:42:30,522
and include them in the journey
1392
01:42:30,522 --> 01:42:31,802
and make everybody happy
1393
01:42:31,802 --> 01:42:34,422
and keep being that source of inspirations
1394
01:42:34,422 --> 01:42:36,462
without losing my own hair, right?
1395
01:42:37,082 --> 01:42:39,902
So that's a daily practice.
1396
01:42:40,222 --> 01:42:42,322
And I can see that you have been on that practice
1397
01:42:42,322 --> 01:42:44,302
very much in different endeavors
1398
01:42:44,302 --> 01:42:53,662
And I really appreciate you sharing so candidly and openly to our audience so that everybody who tuned into this episode can learn from you and your journey.
1399
01:42:54,002 --> 01:42:55,502
The pleasure is all mine.
1400
01:42:55,742 --> 01:42:58,682
I wouldn't share everything that I've shared with everybody.
1401
01:42:58,902 --> 01:43:02,842
So it's a testament to who you are and the space that you hold for people as well.
1402
01:43:02,922 --> 01:43:04,302
So thank you so much for having me on.
1403
01:43:04,362 --> 01:43:06,902
And thank you for being who you are.
1404
01:43:07,082 --> 01:43:07,402
Amazing.
1405
01:43:07,642 --> 01:43:08,462
And one last question.
1406
01:43:08,562 --> 01:43:09,562
We can do it rapid fire.
1407
01:43:09,562 --> 01:43:15,202
Whenever we have guests speaking another language than English, I'd like to ask them one question.
1408
01:43:15,542 --> 01:43:18,922
What is a word you like in your language?
1409
01:43:19,122 --> 01:43:21,422
This is like, I got to say two things.
1410
01:43:21,562 --> 01:43:22,302
Two things here.
1411
01:43:22,722 --> 01:43:32,042
I brought up that guy, that Japanese guy who like when we're around each other, we don't really speak each other's languages that well.
1412
01:43:32,142 --> 01:43:34,682
Like our first languages, but we feel each other.
1413
01:43:34,682 --> 01:43:36,582
when we were rehearsing
1414
01:43:36,582 --> 01:43:38,302
to play the record release show
1415
01:43:38,302 --> 01:43:40,862
for the two song EP that I recorded in Japan
1416
01:43:40,862 --> 01:43:42,682
we would play
1417
01:43:42,682 --> 01:43:44,962
and there was this phrase he would say afterwards
1418
01:43:44,962 --> 01:43:46,622
and it's like I use it as like
1419
01:43:46,622 --> 01:43:48,522
what's the word? Almost like a mantra
1420
01:43:48,522 --> 01:43:49,822
it's the most beautiful
1421
01:43:49,822 --> 01:43:52,722
he would go and he would like say it with his whole body
1422
01:43:52,722 --> 01:43:53,222
he would go
1423
01:43:53,222 --> 01:43:57,142
and it means
1424
01:43:57,142 --> 01:43:58,982
like the feeling that's it
1425
01:43:58,982 --> 01:44:01,262
and what it is is like oh we got it
1426
01:44:01,262 --> 01:44:02,802
we got that take was it
1427
01:44:02,802 --> 01:44:03,522
like he would just go
1428
01:44:03,522 --> 01:44:04,662
Oh no, kanji-gis.
1429
01:44:04,662 --> 01:44:05,222
Yeah.
1430
01:44:05,222 --> 01:44:06,462
And he was like, he would just like,
1431
01:44:06,462 --> 01:44:08,162
he could see his bottle like set,
1432
01:44:08,162 --> 01:44:09,942
his body would like settle into it as
1433
01:44:09,979 --> 01:44:15,539
said it and i was just like travesan like we are we are spiritual beings that have found each other
1434
01:44:15,539 --> 01:44:21,039
on this planet and i'm very grateful for you the other thing that i love is in spanish the way to
1435
01:44:21,039 --> 01:44:26,859
say don't worry you don't speak any spanish no i don't the way to say don't worry in spanish the
1436
01:44:26,859 --> 01:44:34,039
literal translation so no te preocupes it means don't preoccupy yourself i love that phrase so
1437
01:44:34,039 --> 01:44:39,839
don't worry means literally don't preoccupy your mind those two phrases whenever i'm stressed i'm
1438
01:44:39,839 --> 01:44:45,279
like am i preoccupying myself or am i just not finding the feeling am i just not like they i keep
1439
01:44:45,279 --> 01:44:49,759
both of those things in mind very very frequently wow wow thank you for proving how much i love this
1440
01:44:49,759 --> 01:44:55,739
question yeah it's it's a great question teach me please what is the what are the two phrases i'm
1441
01:44:55,739 --> 01:45:05,179
gonna try saying okay japanese is easier for me that was good yes and i actually always get this
1442
01:45:05,179 --> 01:45:08,419
one wrong so i have to actually have to think about i always put the stress on the wrong word
1443
01:45:08,419 --> 01:45:10,959
So it's, I think it's no te preocupes.
1444
01:45:11,159 --> 01:45:12,959
No te preocupes.
1445
01:45:13,719 --> 01:45:14,239
That's it.
1446
01:45:14,339 --> 01:45:28,599
You got it That it Yeah Yeah Okay I not going to say it a second time to ruin the first it might make it easier to put it this way we do it one more time so no is obviously just no te means yourself when you use it in this way in spanish so you saying don do this to
1447
01:45:28,599 --> 01:45:36,299
yourself so no te is is you and then preocupes is like preoccupy oh yeah don't preoccupy yourself
1448
01:45:36,299 --> 01:45:38,619
not te preoccupes
1449
01:45:38,619 --> 01:45:40,239
that's it
1450
01:45:40,239 --> 01:45:42,339
not te preoccupes
1451
01:45:42,339 --> 01:45:43,299
thank you
1452
01:45:43,299 --> 01:45:45,399
don't preoccupy
1453
01:45:45,399 --> 01:45:46,499
go take a walk
1454
01:45:46,499 --> 01:45:48,039
don't preoccupy yourself with this
1455
01:45:48,039 --> 01:45:49,619
come back to it with a clear head
1456
01:45:49,619 --> 01:45:51,219
on that note
1457
01:45:51,219 --> 01:45:52,639
everybody
1458
01:45:52,639 --> 01:45:54,919
not te preoccupes
1459
01:45:54,919 --> 01:45:56,459
there you go
1460
01:45:56,459 --> 01:45:57,439
let's go
1461
01:45:57,439 --> 01:45:58,599
take a walk
1462
01:45:58,599 --> 01:45:59,419
and thank you so much
1463
01:45:59,419 --> 01:46:00,759
for tuning in this conversation
1464
01:46:00,759 --> 01:46:02,579
I've had a lot of fun
1465
01:46:02,579 --> 01:46:03,599
a lot of insight from you
1466
01:46:03,599 --> 01:46:04,459
as always Frank
1467
01:46:04,459 --> 01:46:05,759
thank you so much for joining us
1468
01:46:05,759 --> 01:46:11,079
and sharing. We hope to see you again sometime on the show. And I'm so looking forward to
1469
01:46:11,079 --> 01:46:16,879
connecting in real life, jamming together music and have more chats about Live with Bitcoin very,
1470
01:46:17,019 --> 01:46:20,759
very soon. Man, peace and much love to everybody. Thank you again for having me on.
1471
01:46:21,019 --> 01:46:25,579
All right. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for tuning in another episode of Live
1472
01:46:25,579 --> 01:46:28,599
with Bitcoin. I'm your host Ivy Lumi and we'll see you next time.