Life Between Coasts S3 E2: Nobody Warned About The Rage

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Hi there.
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Welcome to Life Between Coasts, the podcast where we dive into our personal journeys connected through synchronicity.
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So grab your coffee, light a candle, and let's begin.
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I'm your host, Leah, and we're glad you're here.
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Today we're sitting down with Jennifer.
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Welcome.
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Thank you.
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How are you today?
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Fantastic.
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Really excellent.
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Oh, I'm ecstatic for you to be here because I don't know a whole lot about you, but um there was a couple keywords that popped up when Alexis had mentioned messaged me earlier.
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And um, so I'm excited to hear about some of those things because you know it's it's real life and and very important.
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So I'm gonna give the floor over to you.
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And and Jennifer, tell us about you.
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Yeah, my name's Jen Gallagher.
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I am a therapist.
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I've been a therapist for over 20 years.
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So I've been doing this a long time.
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It's my dream job.
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I love it.
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And I specialize in working with women in midlife.
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And more recently, I have a special focus on working with the rage women experience in midlife.
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So that is what I'm doing with my time.
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Okay.
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And now have you always been in Michigan?
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I have, yeah.
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I'm Michigan born and bred.
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Okay, perfect.
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Perfect.
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And so what is um, how did you get into that kind of work?
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Well, working a couple of ways.
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I mean, working with women in midlife, just hearing some of the issues that come up, including anger and rage.
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I didn't attend to it a whole lot.
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I uh came down with autoimmune disease back in 2021.
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Okay.
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I was very sick.
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It hit me like a freight train.
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Okay.
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Really knocked me off my feet.
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In a lot of pain, a lot of fatigue.
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I had to cut back on my work.
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Very attention getting.
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Right.
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And I really felt like, is this gonna be the rest of my life?
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It was a difficult time.
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And I became determined to do everything that I can do to get well and have this not be the story of the rest of my life at the time, 48 years old.
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Right.
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I went the functional medicine route, integrative medicine, worked really hard on that.
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It really helped.
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In the process of working on my physical health, I stumbled into needing to work on my emotional health.
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Okay.
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So I'm I'm always I love studying, reading, researching.
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I'm always doing that.
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So of course I was doing that about autoimmune disease.
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Came across some work by uh Dr.
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Gabor Mate.
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Okay.
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He's a psychiatrist, I believe.
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He talks about the correlation between, well, one, it's very prevalent among women pervasively, and the correlation between autoimmune disease and people who are the kindest, generous, most giving, sacrificial, put themselves last.
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And so I looked in the mirror, realized I really, you know, that is me.
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And if I'm going to get well more, I need to look at that and address that.
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So my journey began that landed me to discover that I had a lot of suppressed rage.
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That I'm a fiery person, I'm an Aries.
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Does she believe in that sort of thing?
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Very much so.
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Yeah.
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But I had prided myself on having that well managed, didn't have a temper, you know, being grateful and positive thinking, and those are all good things.
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Right.
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But it really cut me off from important parts of me, including my anger and rage.
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And now that I have discovered that and devoured everything I can on that topic and talked to other women in at this stage of life, it's very common for rage to be circusing.
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There's a lot of silence and shame around that.
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And I realized this is an on a topic that has not been is not talked about, isn't addressed, a perimenopause, midlife conversation.
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Right.
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And I want to make that happen.
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Right.
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Yes.
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Well, I I think that's amazing because you're absolutely correct.
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There's there's not the conversation.
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I mean, you're starting to see some commercials, but they're pushing a pill, usually, you know, that and that's the problem is is, you know, oh, here, just take this, you'll feel better.
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It's like that's not, you're just masking it, you know, that's not fixing it, that's not researching it, that's not understanding it.
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And there's a lot of things that we push down, you know, through our entire life.
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And, you know, so all of that is building below the surface in addition to the hormone changes.
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100%.
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And so no wonder rage rooms are like, oh, perfect space.
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No wonder.
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That's like something that's like, yeah, I haven't been to one, but it sounds pretty fun to break things.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You know, do some demo.
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Yes, very much so.
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So, you know, because there's always that joke that the the therapist needs a therapist, you know.
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So how, you know, when you when you're taking in all of that, you're saying that, you know, you're suppressing things that you're proud of.
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I understand an Aries temper and and and temperament, you know, that fire, fire, fire, Mercury, Mars, and all of that go into it.
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Um, but how did you, you know, when did you recognize that it was it the diagnosis or was it leading up to that?
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Or it was a discovery process, like a gradual unfolding.
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So one thing that really got my attention is driving to the office one day.
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I live in Jackson, but my office is in Brooklyn.
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So I'm driving to the office and I need to get over in a lane because you know, another the lane's gonna shrink down.
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And I want to get over, and there's a pickup truck over here, one of those big pickup trucks.
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And I decide I'm gonna speed up a little bit and get past him.
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He's blowing pretty slow.
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So as I'm doing that, he speeds up in my mind to spite me.
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I think so, but so I speed up some more, which you know, I'm getting fired up, and he speeds up some more.
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And before I know it, I am up next to him, laying on my horn, giving him the finger.
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To know, you know, I mean, to what point?
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I've never acted that way in my life, right?
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So inevitably I get behind him because that's the way it's gonna go.
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And the first neighborhood I get to, I pull off into.
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And I am like, am I losing my mind?
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What is going on?
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Yeah.
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I'm shaking.
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I am not okay.
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You know, I realize that.
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Yeah.
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Whatever's going on, I need to be taking better care of myself.
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I need to figure out, figure this out and make some changes.
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So that was my first big clue, but I still didn't put together this piece about rage being is the issue.
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Right.
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I started in my process of reading and learning, reading a book about patriarchy, which made me appropriately angry.
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That led me to reading a book uh called Rage Becomes Her, which I have read to pieces now, with a lot of really good information about the Rage Woman experience across, you know, our lifetimes and cult cross-culturally and whatnot.
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It's really informative.
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You can't read a book without rage, without feeling rage.
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Right.
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So that's when I started to really put two and two together.
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And I would say another moment was being at a fundraising dinner.
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Uh, I'm at a table with a group of couples, and we're talking, we end up talking about midlife because I work in midlife.
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That's a lot to talk about.
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You know, women like and need to talk about that.
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And a a woman at the table starts talking about how full of rage she is and how that's showing up in her life, and her husband's nodding, complaining about it next to her.
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And the table went silent.
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I mean, nobody said anything, including me.
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Right.
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So I thought about that later and I was really bothered about it.
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I was like, what again, kind of asking myself, what was that about?
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And I realized that I had a I was really uncomfortable with women's rage and women's anger.
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And, you know, putting all of that together and doing my own deep dives, my own therapy, I uncovered that this was a really big part, uh, what was going on for me, my own judgments and pushing down of that.
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And how much that was affecting us as women.
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Right.
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And what was your now?
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So at what level do you think your rage like what was the peak of that?
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And how much do you feel it's under control?
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Like, or would do you because you're conscious and you you're acknowledging it.
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I think that's the first step is the acknowledgement side.
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You know, once you say, okay, this is the problem, when I feel it, I'm going to do this.
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You know, you start to make those choices.
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But, you know, when did you like when did you feel that you had it somewhat under control?
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Is it ever under control?
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I don't know.
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Because I didn't mean to laugh when you said about, you know, the truck and that.
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I mean, not even three days ago, I can tell you, I was driving down a 25 mile per hour street right here, and I was at a stop sign, and somebody came up behind me and left that stop sign with me.
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And they were right on my rear end, and they were so close that I couldn't eat this.
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Um, they were so close that I could not see their headlights.
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And I, if I hit my brakes, they would have rear-ended me.
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And um the the road splits into two lanes.
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Um, and so even before that happens, this person was already around me.
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And of course, they caught the red light.
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And it's yeah, it's 25 and it was 35, and there's a light, and he's sitting at the light.
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And I pulled up in the right lane right next to him and I put my window down.
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I'm like, it's 25 miles an hour.
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And I started screaming at him.
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And I'm thinking and I'm shaking.
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Yeah.
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And he's looking down like this this lady's crazy.
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And you know, I don't know what I yell at people all the time for speeding down that road, but I've never said anything too funny.
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So when you said that, I was like, oh gosh, I know what that is.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So where where were you?
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Like, how was like what was the peak?
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Like before you said, Oh, I really have to do something about this.
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It it was, I don't think there was a peak as much as there was an awareness.
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Like, I would even describe it as feeling it inside of me.
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Okay.
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Like a like a tension, like a red hot, kind of simmering type of fury that I got aware that I'm carrying.
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Part of what happens for people in general and women, and certainly to me, is we can get disconnected from our bodies, trauma, all sorts of things, life.
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And I that certainly was true for me.
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So I I wasn't aware of these things that were probably going on in my body.
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Because rage, I mean, all emotions are very physiological, but rage is very powerfully physically physiological rage and anger.
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So it really was like tuning in and noticing and getting curious about that and realizing I'm actually angry about a lot of things.
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And I think people carry their anger in different ways.
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On my website, I have a rage style quiz that it's like two minutes that you people can take and it starts to help you reflect.
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Like, how does rage show up for me?
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So mine was really like that suppressed, disconnected, not even knowing.
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And then when I paid attention to it, it's more like this kind of slow simmer kind of under the surface.
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But if I pay attention, I can feel it.
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Partly, I think me owning that I'm kind of a fiery person, right?
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And also, you know, we accumulate a lot of injustices and mistreatments and violations.
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Everybody does, but especially women.
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So that's in there that has to be dealt with.
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I like to think that I'm I have a healthy relationship with my rage now.
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So it's not that it's gone, but it doesn't consume me.
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It doesn't take me over generally.
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And it's not, I'm I'm not disowning it, right?
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I'm seeing real value in it.
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And that's part of what I want to help other women be able to have, like be able to see the value in rage instead of it's something to be ashamed of, and it's something, you know, it's the antithesis of happiness.
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It's actually essential to happiness and being the fullest version of ourselves.
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I've always said that too.
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It's like you have to feel, you have to feel like ever be able to feel every emotion, happiness and sadness, and joy and frustration and anger and rage.
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I mean, all of those things, you know, to say, you know, because if you just say I've only been happy or I've only been sad, uh there it's a a rainbow of of emotions, and you have to be able to feel all of them to have a fulfilled life, I think.
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Absolutely.
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And and it's okay.
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I mean, life is hard, it's going to hurt, you know, and there's going to be those sad times and there's going to be the difficult times, but the acknowledgement and how you deal with it is the big thing.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Numb or disalm one emotion without numbing others.
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So, how are you getting your message out?
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How are you teaching or or trying to help people understand the value of the rage?
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Yeah.
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And what what is what do you think the value of the rage is, I should say, before we go there, because what do you think the value is?
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Yeah.
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Rage, we have neuro, I love neuroscience too.
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Neuroscience says we have like seven emotional systems in our brain.
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And one of them is called a rage system.
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And it's an approach emotion.
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So, like when we think about the fear system, that's a withdrawal emotion, like designed to help us pull away.
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Right.
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Uh, rage is designed to make us approach something.
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So generally, it can be there's a a barrier in our way, like a pickup truck, and we need to mobilize our energy to like overcome that barrier.
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It could be some our boundaries are being violated.
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That's the other way it shows up, and we need to mobilize our energy to push back that.
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It can be that our nervous system is just overwhelmed and flooded, and it shows up that way too.
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But that mobilization gives us uh courage to do things that we're scared to do, like make really difficult changes in our life, like face if we're being mistreated or we're putting up with things we shouldn't be putting up with, which as women we do a lot of.
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Yeah.
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You know, that's scary to do.
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So if we aren't connected with our rage, we aren't protecting ourselves, we aren't able to stand up for ourselves, we aren't able to face the uh loss or danger or risk that comes with that.
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Difficult choices, changes we need need to make in our lives, facing uh, you know, relationships that are hurting us or not serving us, the loss with that.
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And it's it's so it's vital and important.
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And a lot of uh energy for transformation and passion comes from that rage system.
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I feel more alive than I ever have.
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Owning that part of me and embodying that.
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Yeah.
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You do.
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It I think there isn't like an almost like an electric feeling when it comes through you.
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Um it's it's very, you know, because my experiences obviously um from my listening audience would know from the Lynd disease, the neurological side of it.
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Um, and so I've experienced that from a different perspective.
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And so, and I can tell you from being on both having the neurological line disease and then and going into perimenopause.
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This is a real thing.
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Um there is a difference in the rage.
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Um, and and I think what the uh the other rage was is I couldn't control it.
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It was a drop of the hat.
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It just it came up inside of me like in a heartbeat.
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:32.359
You know, there was nothing that I could do to stop it.
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:39.879
Um, but it would take an outside whatever to start it, you know, and that trigger whatever it was.
00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:45.159
Um, but the perimenopause side is just a shorter fuse.
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.480
Um, it's things that I would let go.
00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:49.879
You know, now it's it's like gamma.
00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.519
Yeah, game support driver that ungated me.
00:17:53.879 --> 00:18:04.200
It's weird because I would never, I would because, you know, as my mister would describe me, oh you're you're just that you know, grown old girl, that hippie chick, you know, just like pretty cool and and and I like the flow.
00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:05.000
But you're right.
00:18:05.159 --> 00:18:14.519
I mean, I was talking with um a colleague earlier today, and she said, um it's those check marks about being ignored, overlooked.
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:19.960
Um, you know, you might be a top producer, but they don't even know your name.
00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:22.119
And, you know, so you just have those check boxes.
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:29.480
You don't even know who I am, you don't, and then finally it just reaches a certain point, and you like, and then you decide, make that decision.
00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.679
But it is hard to leave some of those relationships in place.
00:18:33.399 --> 00:18:37.720
Now is the is your main clientele just females or predominantly.
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:40.679
I have some men that I see, but yeah, I mostly see females.
00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:41.079
Okay.
00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:43.240
Women, mostly midlife on hop.
00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:43.879
Uh right.
00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:45.960
I think it's exactly it.
00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:46.599
It makes sense.
00:18:46.679 --> 00:18:47.079
It makes sense.
00:18:47.159 --> 00:18:50.599
Now, do you do workshops or what else do you do to try to help?
00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:53.559
Yeah, right now I'm doing individual therapy.
00:18:53.639 --> 00:18:53.960
Okay.
00:18:54.200 --> 00:19:01.960
I also am doing podcasts trying to get the word out and break the stigma on the sirens on this topic.
00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:07.879
And I have interviewed women from all over the country about midlife rage.
00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:27.159
So that has been really informative and really electric too, because women have been so eager to talk about it and emphatic about the need to get the word out more because it is so lonely and isolating and heavy to carry and so prevalent.
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:27.799
Right.
00:19:27.879 --> 00:19:28.279
Yeah.
00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:41.879
And what um now, what do you think um overall, just from talking to people all over the country and and and things, uh, what's the common thread that that brings everybody together?
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:44.839
What do you think that what you what are you hearing the most?
00:19:45.879 --> 00:19:54.759
Because you know, when you're sitting at that table, it, you know, an event and that and one person says that, you do freeze because you're not sure what to say.
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:58.599
Um, and you weren't at the point of being able to say, I feel that too.
00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:09.559
You know, and there's times because there'll be times when somebody says something and you know, you're sitting at that table, but you don't say something and then you kick yourself because you never said anything, but you weren't ready to say anything then.
00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:10.519
Now you are.
00:20:10.679 --> 00:20:15.639
So it's just like, you know, it's like how did how do you get that to the masses?
00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:16.919
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:37.079
And and that's a a comment women often brought up is like, uh, I talked, I had some of the women I interviewed were therapists, so they themselves are like, I'm gonna start talking about this with my therapist colleagues, with my book club, you know, like it's contagious once we start opening the door.
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:37.639
Right.
00:20:37.879 --> 00:20:40.200
So spreading the word that way.
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:42.599
And that was a common theme.
00:20:43.159 --> 00:20:47.000
Really, that there's a lot of shame with anger.
00:20:47.159 --> 00:21:12.440
Now, I talk to some of the women I talk to and of course work with who are on the other side of it, uh, have developed a real like love for that part of themselves, which is awesome, and also talk about feeling more authentic, more uh fulfilled in their life, ready to do new things that they weren't doing before, ready to speak up about their feelings, but weren't doing that before.
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:13.559
Yeah.
00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:21.639
Um heard a lot of really compelling stories about what this what women go through.
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:37.639
What um what would you recommend as like the first step after you know hearing the stories from other people, you know, and and then knowing yourself and what you know, you questioning yourself before doing that deep dive.
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:43.240
What would be the first step that you would recommend to somebody um to get into this?
00:21:43.639 --> 00:21:46.119
Yeah, now I would say take this rage quiz.
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:51.879
It tells you, gives you some insight about where you're at, how you carry your rage or how you express it.
00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:52.359
Right.
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:58.919
And it also talks about how it showed might what might be happening in your body because it is so physiological.
00:21:59.159 --> 00:22:06.200
We have adrenaline and cortisol running through our system and these kinds of things that affect our health and our behavior, our mood.
00:22:06.679 --> 00:22:10.440
And then it gives you some baseline, some suggestions about where it gets started.
00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:20.359
I think also evaluating like how rage wasn't even on my radar when I this whole journey started.
00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:20.759
Right.
00:22:21.159 --> 00:22:25.240
And, you know, again, I'm big would be the person, oh.
00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:32.759
Always smiling, kind, always listening, always uh ready to support people.
00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:39.960
I would be the last person who would have ever thought rage mattered or would want anything to do with it.
00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:43.639
I'm kind of surprised here I am in my life as a spokesperson for rage.
00:22:44.919 --> 00:22:47.079
Yeah, but it's been as surprising.
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:50.759
So, you know, just even paying attention to rage at all.
00:22:50.919 --> 00:22:54.279
Like, how do you feel towards your own rage?
00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:57.480
Do you e even notice if you have any, right?
00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:59.799
Because chances are it's in there.
00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:00.279
Yeah.
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:04.279
And how do you feel towards other people's rage or other women's rage?
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:05.480
What happens for you?
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:14.039
And just starting to consider your own, our own socialized aversion to it that might be there.
00:23:14.919 --> 00:23:16.679
Some women really embrace it.
00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:25.240
They're and maybe they're even consumed by it, which is another, you know, there's a whole continuum of how rage can be affecting us.
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:35.639
And the idea ideal is to be able to be yourself and also be able to choose what you're doing with your rage instead of it taking you over, right?
00:23:35.879 --> 00:23:37.480
Or being cut off from it.
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:37.960
Right.
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:51.960
And this is done in what it as a therapist, is it during what do you uh what are you using like journaling or exercises like get out in nature?
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:54.839
I mean, there's a lot of things that there's a lot of things that you can do.
00:23:54.919 --> 00:23:58.519
I mean, sometimes people do need to be medicated as well, but that's sure that's different.
00:23:58.679 --> 00:24:00.519
I mean, there are certain points.
00:24:00.679 --> 00:24:16.440
I mean, there's always um, but like I said, always pushing a pill just because somebody has night flat or hot sweats and and a little bit of and some rage, but it's the underlying that's really that has to be dealt with because the rage itself can most likely be dealt with, you know.
00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:24.279
Um, but it's the the things that we've ignored all of our lives, and you know, and of course I would say all of our past lives as well.
00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:26.919
So so I'll go as deep as that.
00:24:27.399 --> 00:24:35.559
So now what um so going back like to your beginnings then, you know, what why fly why psychology?
00:24:35.639 --> 00:24:36.440
Why did you want to go?
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:37.720
That's a good question.
00:24:37.879 --> 00:24:38.759
Yeah, why did you go there?
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:40.839
I love the brain, so me too.
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:41.799
My favorite.
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:47.879
You know, I was in middle school and one of my friends said, What do you want to be when you grow up?
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:53.399
And I I said, I want to be that person who understands people's behavior.
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:58.119
I didn't even know what it was called because of my family life, of course.
00:24:58.359 --> 00:25:01.000
And uh he said, Oh, a psychologist?
00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:02.279
And I'm like, Yeah, that's it.
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:04.279
And I've been really attached to it ever since.
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:11.799
So yeah, I I've been one I considered journalism at one point, but by the time I got to college, I I've been one track.
00:25:11.879 --> 00:25:14.599
I love psychology, I love the brain.
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.480
Studying all of those things has made my life so much better.
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:21.879
And this again, this is my dream job.
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:22.919
Yeah, cool.
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.279
And I don't know how it happened.
00:25:24.919 --> 00:25:25.799
That's that's amazing.
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:32.359
What what um who who would be your favorite uh psychoanalysis or analyst?
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:34.759
Yeah, I have a couple.
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.240
I don't know how well well known they'd be.
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:43.480
They're more uh not ancient ones, you know, old theories, although all of that's good.
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:45.159
One is Dr.
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:46.119
Dan Siegel.
00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:47.720
I don't know if you've ever heard of his work.
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:48.839
Sounds familiar.
00:25:49.079 --> 00:26:01.159
Yeah, he's his theory is interpersonal neurobiology, which is really a combination of how relationships and our brains help us evolve and emerge.
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:01.480
Right.
00:26:01.639 --> 00:26:06.919
So we can have influence over that in a lot of course neuroscience there.
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.480
And then Julianne Taylor Shore, I've studied her a lot and I trained with her.
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:13.399
She's in Austin, Texas.
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:19.799
And her approach is experiential, which is really being in what's happening in the present moment for you.
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:27.240
It doesn't mean the past won't come up, but staying anchored in what's happening inside of you, your thoughts, feelings, sensations.
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:27.879
Right.
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:40.200
And how the brain changes, because we can do such so much more effective therapy when we are understanding how change happens in the brain, like it can be more efficient and expedient.
00:26:40.679 --> 00:26:40.919
Yeah.
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:42.279
So those are a couple people.
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:43.879
No, I like I do.
00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:49.240
Um I like um I like some of the older guys though, too.
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:51.159
I mean, obviously Carl Jung is my number one.
00:26:51.399 --> 00:26:53.720
So I'm sorry if he he's my he's mine.
00:26:54.200 --> 00:27:14.039
But um, but you know, the same thing is just I like um the the reason, you know, it and the brain has always been something to me, but then when I lost it, that's that's really where it's like, oh my gosh, you know, when you you have that moment of of blankness that you don't know what's going on, and then that comes back.
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:24.359
And and I'm like, I feel for the aging population that goes into dementia and and Alzheimer's, and because they don't come back from that, they don't have the opportunity to come back from that.
00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:26.119
They might have a moment of clarity.
00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:29.319
Um, but that's that once that diagnosis sets in.
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:37.319
And there's so many things that we can do to try to combat that, you know, um, making better food choices and and certain things that will feed our brain.
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:47.559
And, you know, but it I find it just really interesting how there are differences in the hormones and how a woman's brain versus a man's brain and all of the things that aren't studied about that.
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:49.399
We have so far to go.
00:27:49.639 --> 00:27:50.519
Oh, there's so much.
00:27:50.679 --> 00:27:55.000
I mean, so but just starting with just the what you're doing right now is is perfect.
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:56.839
But you should, I think, do some workshops.
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:02.519
I think you would draw in much more um just to get the conversation started.
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:06.599
Um, because there's a lot of people that I think are afraid to ask the question.
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:07.639
Oh, sure.
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:18.679
And I agree, and I I've gotten a lot of feedback like that, and that is definitely on my to-do list because also we heal in community and in being able to talk about this with other women.
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:27.720
Even if it's such and that's I mean, uh Siegel, you said connection, and then you said presence, and you know, and those are two, those two things alone.
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:48.839
I mean, it's the human connection, and we're lacking that in so many areas um because of the screens, you know, there's you know, Zoom calls or texting, or nobody's even having phone calls anymore because they're like afraid of of another person's voice, you know, or they're sick of, you know, AI trying to teach us how to like get through to somebody, you know.
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:57.159
But the uh again, it's getting that kindness back and and getting that connection back because I think that that's the chunk that's missing from us.
00:28:57.480 --> 00:28:57.720
Yeah.
00:28:57.879 --> 00:29:08.200
I mean, that's part of what happens again when I've in the women I've talked to and women I work with, rage gets worse in part because we're carrying too much alone.
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:13.240
I talked to one woman and she had four kids.
00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:16.679
Her husband worked a lot, she worked full-time.
00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:17.159
Right.
00:29:17.399 --> 00:29:28.679
Her kids had sports, she was doing essentially everything by herself, I mean, and doing everything she can and screaming and yelling all day long and going to therapy and feeling terrible about it.
00:29:28.919 --> 00:29:34.519
And at the end of the day, her nervous system is too maxed out and there's no relief for her.
00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:38.119
And she's doing it again predominantly by herself.
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:39.559
She had very little support.
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:40.119
Right.
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:51.960
So when you think about how much better off we are when we can be a village and we can work together, that's a big component of it.
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:59.960
I think that that's uh one of the ignored things, you know, because neighbors aren't neighbors anymore.
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:03.079
It it they there are some some neighborhoods that you do get that.
00:30:03.159 --> 00:30:10.759
Um, but I just knowing what we grew up with, I mean, we're fairly close in age um within a few years.
00:30:10.919 --> 00:30:16.039
And so it's just like, you know, when you they talk about that age group, it's like we were outside all the time.
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:20.359
We didn't see the inside of a house for most of the summer, unless it was winter time.
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.440
Um, but even then we were at the school.
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:24.519
I mean, I was participated in drama club and things.
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:28.839
So I was at the school until eight o'clock at night most nights and and back at it the next day.
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:33.960
So we were always busy doing something else, and but we were engaging with other people at the same time.
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.559
So we always had that um camaraderie.
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:44.119
And if you looked like you were sad or if you were struggling with something, somebody would always come up to you and say, Hey, what's going on?
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:45.480
What can we do for you?
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.279
And and and we're lacking in that.
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:56.759
Um, you know, instead of, you know, like even somebody broken down on the side of the car, you know, side of the road, it's oh, they have a cell phone, they'll figure it out.
00:30:56.919 --> 00:31:01.000
Yeah, it's like, no, it's okay to stop.
00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:03.960
It's not, you know, you shouldn't leave somebody stranded.
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:06.200
You know, it's it's it's okay to be human.
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:16.359
And and I think that women especially need to recognize we're human and it's okay to not be perfect.
00:31:16.519 --> 00:31:21.639
Um, you know, um, I love the term wabi sabi, which is a natural thing, uh Japanese term.
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:25.079
Oh yeah, the imperfections of natural items, you know.
00:31:25.159 --> 00:31:27.159
So I use it in just everyday things.
00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:33.799
I don't like to have perfect things, you know, I'm not a perfect specimen by any means.
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:40.279
Um, but you know, like when you I reference, like I buy things and and I I'm a clearance shopper.
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:41.559
I like clearance, you know.
00:31:41.639 --> 00:31:48.679
And if there's a, you know, a something, a tear or or a stain or something, I'm like, oh, I can get that out, no big deal, because I'm not paying full price for it.
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:52.440
And if I damage something, I'm like, oh, I spent a hundred bucks on it.
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:53.799
No, I spent 10 bucks on it.
00:31:53.879 --> 00:31:55.000
It's not that big of a deal.
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:58.359
You know, it to me it's it's okay if it's not perfect.
00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:03.240
Um, but there's a lot of people that have to think that I need that Instagram life.
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:05.399
And I can't be going through this rage.
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:19.480
And I have to make sure all the kids get to soccer, baseball, football, and then ballet, and then this and this, and and make sure they do the test and then they have this, and you know, because they're trying to let her in three different sports and you know, whatever ice and be a stellar community member.
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:20.679
And you can't do it.
00:32:21.159 --> 00:32:27.079
Why thing you can't do it, and they can't do it, and that facade is going to crack and it's going to break and it's going to collapse.
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:31.720
And and then you're useless to the people that you were hoping to help.
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:32.200
Sure.
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:34.119
And I feel like that's part of what happened with me.
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:36.519
I was just going, going, going, going, going.
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.359
Look like I had it all together, thought I had it all together, right?
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:41.879
And then crash.
00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:43.399
Like, and and that was that.
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:44.039
Yeah.
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.319
I had to face it and deal with it and face myself.
00:32:47.879 --> 00:33:00.279
And and I'm thinking about Carl Young to circle back to that because coming into my mind about some of what I've thought about with rage too, and including other parts of ourselves, is accepting that part of ourselves, our shadow self.
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:00.599
No.
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:07.480
And that we have to do that in order again to be the fullest versions of who we are.
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:13.559
And that can be scary and that can feel threatening and like something's wrong with us.
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:19.879
But when we can embrace all of that, then we can be more at ease.
00:33:20.919 --> 00:33:22.119
And we're better.
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:22.839
Yeah.
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:29.319
I think we're better people when we embrace it because that acknowledgement says, okay, it's part of me.
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:30.759
I I understand it.
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:31.319
I know it.
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:32.359
I feel it.
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.200
Um, it's just part of my thread that makes me who I am.
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:36.599
Yeah.
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:45.399
And, you know, and that and that's what holds me together, you know, and and that's the part I think that a lot of people don't want to face.
00:33:45.639 --> 00:33:55.240
And and I'm glad that you're out there making sure that people are doing this and and and at least acknowledging, at least with your with with your clients, your current clients.
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:55.960
Yeah.
00:33:56.200 --> 00:34:04.599
And I I love to be a space where women can come and you know, your rage, everything you say is welcome here, and I can handle it.
00:34:04.679 --> 00:34:08.920
It's nothing I'm scared of or bothered about or judging or intimidated about.
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:17.400
And I'm thinking about a a woman I worked with, kind of changed some of the details, but uh, we'll call her Kate.
00:34:18.200 --> 00:34:27.000
And she, you know, had raised her kids, been a full-time mom, now was out in the work uh working world.
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:30.360
And her kids had left the house.
00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:38.920
And every time her husband would walk in the door, she said I she felt fury, this deep seething fury inside.
00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:43.559
And like this sense of like bracing and cringing.
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:46.279
And she described him as a nice a nice man.
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:49.400
And she felt really bad about that, like ashamed.
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:50.759
Like, what's wrong with me?
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:51.559
I'm a bad person.
00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:53.480
I don't want to feel this way about my husband.
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:53.880
Right.
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:56.679
And I keep feeling this way every time he comes home.
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:08.759
And in our process, just being able to like say that and talk about that and realize that over time that was an okay way to feel.
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:11.719
That wasn't a reflection of her being a bad person.
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:12.119
Right.
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:14.360
Or her not loving her husband.
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:14.840
Right.
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:18.199
She started to feel better and started to heal.
00:35:18.279 --> 00:35:20.279
And we did a lot of other work.
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:27.960
And at the end of our work together, she didn't really feel that way when her husband came.
00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:28.599
It was great.
00:35:28.759 --> 00:35:32.599
I never know what's gonna happen when I'm working with people I don't know what the end of the story is.
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:34.119
Well, because they have to do the work too.
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.400
And that's the thing is because they can only do the work on the inside for themselves.
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:44.199
You know, you can give them the guidance and say this is the direction that you should take this, but they have to do the work.
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:47.400
So when you see a good outcome, it's because she did the work.
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:48.519
Yeah, it's great.
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:54.039
And she got involved in the community, she started traveling by herself.
00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:56.360
She wouldn't do that before because she would feel too guilty.
00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:56.519
Right.
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:04.519
So, you know, she she was happy and living a much more fulfilled life with a lot more ease at the end.
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:06.519
So that's what it can look like.
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:13.239
But I you know, I hear so often women have these thoughts, like, you know, really hostile sauce.
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:16.440
You know, and you can come and say those, right?
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:18.279
And it's it doesn't make you a bad person.
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:19.960
It makes you really normal.
00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:22.440
It has yet better when you talk about it.
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:22.920
It does.
00:36:23.719 --> 00:36:25.079
I think that's a it's a release.
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:28.759
As soon as you say it out loud, you're like, okay, I'm good.
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.400
Let's let's now let's we've acknowledged it.
00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:32.679
Yeah, we've opened the door.
00:36:32.759 --> 00:36:35.400
Yeah, let's walk through and see what where it takes us.
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:36.039
I love that.
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:37.000
You know, yeah.
00:36:37.159 --> 00:37:07.000
So it's just because there's resentment probably has built up over the years, you know, in those kind of situations, I think too, because there is the expectation, even if a you hate to say it, but even in traditional households, uh, whoever the feminine is, um, in a traditional household of any of any sort, you know, because there's a lot of stay-at-home man um dads too, which so I don't want to take them, but it's their keeping house or whatever, because it would, it's the role, it's not the person necessarily.
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:07.400
Right.
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:21.239
But it's like if if you are designated as the care main caregiver and the main house care, you know, cleaner and and food cooker and whatever else, and you decide to take a full-time job, nobody is helping you take care of those other things.
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:26.119
They're like, oh, you're adding that on to you, um, because those were your expected roles to begin with.
00:37:26.279 --> 00:37:38.360
And I'm not saying, you know, like I said, because that's usually discussed before you have kids, you know, it's like, okay, I make more money, so you're gonna stay home or very, you know, whatever, because childcare is so darn expensive and and things like that, right?
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:57.559
And so when that person say starts to do a full-time job because the kids get a little bit older, so there's less that they have to be part of, um, and they're still required or expected to do the house cleaning and or the kids move out and they're still expected to do the house cleaning and the cooking and and everything else.
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:03.719
You know, they're that resentment can it's a lot of invisible labor, yes, that doesn't get noticed or acknowledged.
00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:04.279
Exactly.
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:15.559
It affects I mean, there's it's a 40 hour a week job just at home, and then you add 40 hours, that's 80 hours, and and there's only so much time to get sleep and do have some personal time for yourself.
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:18.360
And that's why I think we set ourselves aside so often.
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:18.840
Right.
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:21.000
Something's gotta give, it's gonna be us.
00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:25.880
Yeah, and then usually it could be a door or a cupboard or yeah, yeah.
00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:28.679
Something else, you know, when nobody's looking.
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:30.360
Yes, yes, yes.
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.880
I've apologized to a few boxes that I've kicked around.
00:38:34.279 --> 00:38:37.000
Like I know you didn't do anything to me, but you were just there.
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:50.279
Yeah, I a woman I talked to said she uh was getting a bag of chips out of the cupboard and she was trying to open and it wasn't work, and she just went, just and she said, I don't know what happened to me, but I'm like, yeah.
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.559
I would have to say it probably happens at least once a day, you know.
00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:06.119
Uh and it's uh you laugh afterwards, and it's just it's funny because my mister he he recognizes it and he's like, Oh, it's just that change, you know, that hormonal thing.
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:08.039
And he just like kind of brushes it off.
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:13.480
So he's he's good, but he just but he makes it kind of like a joke just to ease the tension.
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:13.719
Yeah.
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:27.159
But it's you know, we are really good at, you know, having like we could have a five-minute argument and then be done with it and put it to bed, but that's because we're a lot more in business together, too.
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:30.519
So we're used to arguing about business and less about personal stuff.
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:34.119
Um, so it's it's easier to disassociate.
00:39:34.279 --> 00:39:43.000
But his problem was carrying that business into our personal life, and so that was where we had to find the separation, but because you get lost in it, you know, so there's a lot of different things.
00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:44.360
So work with my husband too.
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:45.799
So you understand.
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:57.880
So it's very, very difficult sometimes that especially then you take on um more of their work because again, you just do it, you know, and then you start that resentment, and then that adds those layers underneath that rage and and everything else, too.
00:39:58.039 --> 00:39:58.440
So yeah.
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:12.119
And it's hard to even notice it and then to get to a place of being able to step back from doing a spot trip, well, you know, whatever you might need to do, uh ease your own burden.
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:12.759
Right.
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:22.599
And what um so for you personally with your relationship with a rage right now, what is the number one thing that you do?
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:25.960
Like if you feel like something coming up, what's the thing that you do for you?
00:40:26.199 --> 00:40:26.679
Yeah.
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:28.759
I have to think about that.
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:32.599
I I I know the first thing that happens is I notice that.
00:40:32.759 --> 00:40:36.360
Like I know what my rage feels like on the inside.
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:41.639
And that's one of the things that uh I like to work with women on.
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:47.239
It's like what it is that feeling like in your body, because it's different for everybody, you know.
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:51.880
It might be, you know, tension in your fists, it might be a heat come up here.
00:40:51.960 --> 00:41:00.519
And I for me, I guess it's um like I start feeling hot, you know, warm, and I start just feeling a heaviness inside of me.
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:02.920
I I can kind of imagine it now.
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:06.039
So I notice it and I give it credence.
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:10.039
You know, I think I one, I didn't even notice it before.
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:13.000
And two, if I would have, I probably would have dismissed it.
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:14.119
And I think that happens.
00:41:14.279 --> 00:41:17.400
Like, you know, we talk ourselves out of a lot of things.
00:41:17.799 --> 00:41:18.679
Just calm down.
00:41:18.759 --> 00:41:20.360
Like, I don't do any of that anymore.
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:20.920
Right.
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:24.599
I go, if I'm feeling angry, there's a reason for it.
00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:26.679
And that it that's important and it matters.
00:41:26.759 --> 00:41:28.279
So let me figure out what's going on.
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:34.360
And of course, sometimes I might know really readily, sometimes I might not, and I need to think about it.
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:34.840
Right.
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:38.279
So I'm able to stop and reflect.
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:44.119
Ideally, you know, we can have a pause and be noticing, but it that's definitely been an evolution for me.
00:41:44.279 --> 00:41:44.599
Right.
00:41:44.759 --> 00:41:53.480
And then I I am very adamant about taking action on it because I know if I don't, it's gonna get worse.
00:41:54.519 --> 00:42:15.480
So that helps me face difficult things, like if I'm needing to talk to my husband about something that's bothering me or deal with a situation at work or what I'm I'm gonna deal with it because you know, my old self might have avoided that more, but it's just it's gonna come at my expense.
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:18.199
And then it's not gonna turn out well anyway.
00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:18.599
Right.
00:42:18.759 --> 00:42:40.279
So when I stay on top of it and I really deal with things, so it gives me courage to deal with things, you know, to say no when I might have said yes before, to set a I'm I really value setting boundaries because I know if I don't, I'm gonna be the one who gets resentful and grouchy and it's gonna come at my expense.
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:43.719
And especially because I know that affects my health.
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:50.440
And, you know, my autoimmune disease is really well managed right now and really grateful for that, but it's not gone.
00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:50.920
Right.
00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:56.599
I have to be mindful about how I'm taking care of myself physically and emotionally.
00:42:57.079 --> 00:42:58.519
So I'm really motivated.
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:10.679
I mean, I I would have really considered I what did consider myself like I put everyone else first and don't even think about myself, and that's somehow admirable because I think society teaches us that.
00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:13.159
I certainly pick that up along the way.
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:13.559
Right.
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:18.360
That that was my job, and that was, you know, other people were more important than me.
00:43:18.519 --> 00:43:22.279
And in my process, I got to where I'm not less important.
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:24.519
I don't even like saying because I'm a little embarrassed.
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:30.440
Oh, I used to feel that way, but I really realized wait a minute, I'm not less important than anybody else.
00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:34.599
And I I don't want to be more important than anybody else, but I am equal.
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:42.199
And so how I feel and what I need is not less important than what somebody else thinks or feels or needs, right?
00:43:42.279 --> 00:43:45.000
And so now I take it a lot more seriously.
00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:46.360
It's a long answer.
00:43:46.759 --> 00:43:50.119
No, you're fine, but how long did it take you to get to that point?
00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:51.880
That's the question.
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:58.519
Because you know, because that because the acknowledgment's the door, but it it it takes that word to get there.
00:43:58.759 --> 00:44:01.639
Yeah, and I do still, like I said, I have to stay on top of it.
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:01.880
Right.
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:03.719
I didn't, I could easily slip back.
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:06.920
I'm just really motivated because I've learned I needed to it.
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:13.239
Yeah, I mean, I got sick with autoimmune disease in early 2021.
00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:14.599
So what's that?
00:44:14.759 --> 00:44:16.360
Five years, five and a half.
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:21.480
And I probably started uncovering my rage two or three years into that.
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.279
So maybe three years process.
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:24.759
Yeah.
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:27.400
And I've been here for a little while.
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:33.880
I'm not sure how long I have a track for a while, but but no, well, you didn't expect to get that question either.
00:44:34.279 --> 00:44:36.440
So but the but but you're right.
00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:37.960
I mean, because it is it's a process.
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.759
Like I said, you open the door and then you have to work on yourself and it's not an overnight, you know.
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:53.719
Some people need more work because it's the when you said um I'm not less important and I don't want to put myself more important, but but at least equal.
00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:54.199
Yes.
00:44:54.360 --> 00:45:04.840
Um, and I I like that because the when you're doing work on yourself, you're you're used to pushing yourself down.
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:06.360
Oh, you're not worthy of it.
00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:09.079
You so your own self-worth has to be built back up.
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:10.360
That's the first part.
00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:12.840
Like I'm I've got to be here first.
00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:16.840
And I'm it's okay that I feel this is second.
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:24.039
And and then third is like, how do I work with it and let it flow through me rather than try to to break it?
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:30.759
And you know, I I don't uh unfortunately that's that's the part that's in me right now because that's that's what you'll read.
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:38.279
Um I give in my gift that I gave you, um, you know, so you'll you'll hear a lot of those those same words coming through that.
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:46.279
So I think that this was, you know, the divine universe bringing us together because everything you were saying, and like check, check, and check.
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:50.039
It's like all of these things in such a similar um background.
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:53.400
Um, not me not being a therapist, but always loving all of that.
00:45:53.559 --> 00:46:04.840
Um I think I'm um too much of a talker to to I I do I'm a good listener, but I'm too much of a talker about like I want to have much more like quick action.
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:15.000
And and I think that that is um where is me sitting and being a therapist because I can't control the person to get them to do the things, you know, it and that would be the part that would stop me.
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:27.639
It's like I I would want to force them to do the work, and you can't, you know, because it's uh it's like, you know, my dad smoked cigarettes for 55 years, you know, and it it's just you can't quit until you're ready.
00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:29.320
You know, it's as simple as that.
00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:34.360
And and he wasn't ever ready until you know, 55 years into it.
00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:43.480
But you know, so it's just like you can tell somebody to stop because of bad for them, but until they're ready to do it, there's nothing that you can do for them.
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:47.079
And that's the part that I would get stuck on um in your position.
00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:50.199
Like, you're gonna do this and you're gonna love it.
00:46:50.519 --> 00:47:03.639
Yeah, I I'm I uh have deeply ingrained the idea that so that I don't do that, I don't believe it, is that uh everyone has their own journey to walk.
00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:09.960
I do, but because it's an inside job, I actually have no idea what anybody else should do.
00:47:10.279 --> 00:47:14.199
It's it's humbling, yeah, but it's really honest.
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:29.719
And so because clients will come in and you know, one worry about being judged because it's a normal way to feel, or start to feel self-conscious that they're not doing something that they think they should be doing in course of therapy.
00:47:30.279 --> 00:47:43.159
So I really am emphatic about you need to do exactly what you're doing right now, and I'm happy to help you change anything that you want to help in the way that you want, whatever direction you want to go.
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:44.759
But I actually don't know the answer.
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:48.599
Or sometimes people ask me what what do I do?
00:47:48.759 --> 00:47:50.039
Yeah, tell me what to do.
00:47:50.279 --> 00:47:53.960
I I hate to say it, but I said, you know, actually I do not know you should do.
00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:55.799
I can tell you some options.
00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:57.880
We can talk about the pros and cons.
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:06.279
You know, if you really sometimes people really insist, I can tell you what I think, but I have to be honest, I really do not know.
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:06.679
Right.
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:11.320
And and frankly, earlier in my career, I probably more readily offered advice.
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:17.719
I still I've never been a big advice giver because I don't want to be responsible for the consequences if it doesn't go well.
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:21.960
But um people don't do it anyway because they're not ready.
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:23.960
They're not ready, it isn't fit for them.
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:26.119
But yeah, that's it's so true.
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:27.239
So yeah.
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:29.239
Now um, how do people find you?
00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:30.440
So, what is your website?
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:32.920
Yeah, it's Jen Gallagher Counseling.com.
00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:33.239
Okay.
00:48:33.400 --> 00:48:34.840
Yeah, pretty straightforward.
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.400
And you can pop on there and take the rage quiz.
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:38.679
It's it's a fun little thing to do.
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:39.239
Excellent.
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:43.000
Well, we have a resource page on our website, so we always connect um right to you.
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:48.039
So when they come on to see your show, they'll be able to see that resource page right from there as well.
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:55.559
And then, of course, one of the last questions that we ask as we get kind of down to the end here um is what is your personal anthem, Jen?
00:48:55.719 --> 00:49:02.679
You know, what what's the song that just speaks to you, that drives you, that gets you out of bed to, you know, keep going and and not killing.
00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:04.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:05.960
Because, you know, that that's one thing.
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:14.679
Last thing on the rage part, I gotta tell you, is you know, they show those shows um on TV, like snapped and they said, I just blacked out, I don't know what happened.
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:18.360
But that essentially is is the extreme end of rage.
00:49:18.519 --> 00:49:27.719
There's there are times where if if you don't control it or you don't recognize it, or if you're not acknowledging it, and it goes to that point, that can actually happen.
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:28.920
That actually can happen.
00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:30.039
Yeah, totally.
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:31.960
So the scary side of it, right?
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:34.360
But it's because it's so powerful.
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:43.880
You know, but that if you learn about it and get connected with it, that means you have that much power to change your life exactly.
00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:45.559
And so it's yeah.
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:49.000
Yeah, we we have no, but yeah, you have the power.
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:49.880
That's the key.
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:51.320
It's it's in us.
00:49:51.799 --> 00:49:54.440
We have the power in ourselves to change it.
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:55.960
So nobody else can change it.
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:57.320
Nobody is going to save us.
00:49:57.639 --> 00:49:59.000
We have to do it for ourselves.
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:05.559
And that's the first step in in acknowledging and and moving forward, you know, is it's only us that can work on us.
00:50:05.799 --> 00:50:07.239
You know, and that's that's key.
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:08.920
So going back to your anthem, yeah.
00:50:09.079 --> 00:50:09.799
So what's your anthem?
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:10.679
I'm excited for this one.
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:14.119
Mine is uh Into the Mystic by Van Morrison.
00:50:14.279 --> 00:50:18.279
I thought about it, I thought, should I that is genuinely my favorite song.
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:18.759
I love it.
00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:19.079
Yes.
00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:21.159
But I thought, should I have something peppier?
00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:22.519
But yeah, that's a good song.
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.079
I listen I hear that song at least once a day.
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:26.199
So I love that song.
00:50:26.279 --> 00:50:26.519
That's it.
00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:36.440
I I really love the mystical synchronicities, and it just resonates with me so much and it puts me in such a peaceful place.
00:50:36.759 --> 00:50:44.440
So you have those little confirmations, you know, when you see the number or or something happens that you're like, did that just no?
00:50:44.759 --> 00:50:51.079
And and you know, so it's just the winks, you know, it's like I'm doing the right thing, I'm in, I'm in the in the right lane.
00:50:51.480 --> 00:51:02.199
Yeah, I I was thinking at coming into the podcast, remembering about of time a client said, it's like we're doing archaeology of the soul.
00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:04.119
And at this, it was so cool.
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:05.320
I did tell her this.
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:08.679
I was reading a book called Archaeology of the Mind when she said that.
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:12.360
Like literally, I had been listening into audio tape on the right end of the office.
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:15.480
So that was so cool, like just a little wing, right?
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:19.000
Yes, that's that's somebody speaking to you saying, Oh, we're welcome.
00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.000
Same round using the word archaeology.
00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:26.440
Never, not unless you're an archaeologist, or you're digging up the Roanoke colony.
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:29.880
I always tend on I find myself on that on that geo every now and again.
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:31.799
I'm like, oh, I'm interested, you know.
00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:33.159
So I I'm I'm in there.
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:36.199
But but Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:37.799
I really appreciate the conversation.
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:41.079
This this is a really good, very important conversation to have.
00:51:41.239 --> 00:51:48.279
Um, and I look forward to um hearing about you doing some workshops in the future because I think that's that's gonna be fun for that.
00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:56.039
Yeah, it's there they do some wilderness ones, I think, um, where women go out and scream in the woods.
00:51:56.119 --> 00:51:58.519
And you know, that's kind of a little bit frightening to me.
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:09.159
Yeah, but um I think just the conversation and being able to know that you can scream and and just get it out, you know, um, and just having just figuring out different avenues is is key.
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:10.920
Yeah, you know, so very exciting.
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:12.199
Thanks so much for having me.
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:13.000
Oh, thank you.
00:52:13.159 --> 00:52:17.400
And thank you again for joining us on this week's episode of Life Between Coasts.
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:21.639
Please remember to like, share, and subscribe so we can continue to grow our listening audience.
00:52:21.799 --> 00:52:24.279
And we'd like to thank Jennifer again for joining us.
00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:25.639
And we hope you have a great week.
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:27.639
And until then, bye bye.