Standards Over Stress: How Self-Leadership Heals Burnout and Brings Fulfillment

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Welcome back to Leveraging Leadership, where we unpack the art of business leadership.
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I'm your host, Emily Sander, executive advisor to founders, CEOs, leadership teams, and chiefs of staff.
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This show is all about finding your points of greatest influence and leveraging them to better serve those around you.
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Most people think they have a motivation problem.
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Today's guest says that's not the case.
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They have a self-leadership problem.
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Bobby Shelton is the author of Easy Hard vs Hard Hard and the host of the Self-Leadership Lab.
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He helps people understand why they struggle to follow through, why their habits don't match their beliefs, and how to build the kind of internal discipline that actually holds up under pressure.
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If you've ever felt stuck despite knowing what to do, this conversation is going to challenge the way you think about growth.
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Bobby, welcome to the show
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Hey, thanks for having me.
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I've been looking forward to this for a while
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me too, me too, likewise.
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Um, so let's just get right into it.
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What is easy hard versus har- har- hard hard, and how does that fit into, to your story?
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So easy hard versus hard hard is simply defined as think of easy hard as your doing side.
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It's the things you do.
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Um, mostly it's, it's geared to seeking the approval of others or gaining status, degrees, certifications, that sort of thing.
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Whereas hard hard is the work that you truly want to do.
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It's your being side.
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It's who is Bobby Shelton, who is Emily, you know, et cetera.
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And I think why I got to this is because I-- my personal struggle.
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I was going through my 20s, 30s, hit 40s, and I realized that I was never satisfied.
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It was always like,"What's next?" Well, the reason for that was I was always working for somebody else.
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I was chasing the next thing, but yet I let-- my soul was unsatisfied.
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I'd go to bed at night and not be satisfied.
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No matter how much of work I got accomplished that day, I never felt to the next level.
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At the same time, I was dealing with the depression, anxiety, and it was kind of just my way, my military way, the easy hard and hard hard.
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You know, we like to, we like to use words like that.
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It was my way of coming to terms with the work I was doing and kind of finding my why and then recrea-recreating or correcting the path that I was on to go seek after what I was after versus what the world or you or anyone else was looking for me
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Hmm.
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And you, you've, I know you've recounted your personal story in other places, but life is often about losing oneself and then finding oneself, and losing oneself and finding oneself again.
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And you've talked about there was a time when you lost yourself
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Yeah, yeah.
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I was completely lost.
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I had no idea who I was.
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And, and I, my story was very dramatic.
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I was so far lost that I saw myself as a bad person.
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I never understood why anyone would wanna be around me because I didn't wanna be around myself.
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So I had to change that whole image.
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And while it was a little bit painful to go through it, and I made a lot of mistakes, like I thought initially that I had to suffer.
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I thought I had to out-suffer the suffering I was in, and I did it with a weight loss journey.
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Lost 180 pounds.
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That gave me no satisfaction.
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And then I thought, well, what do I hate even more than that?
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Well, reading and writing corresponded with an email I got from my university, the inter doctoral program.
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I'm like,"That's it.
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That's, I- if I become Dr.
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Shelton, I'll like myself." Well, all of those things brought me to where I am today, but they weren't the catalyst.
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The catalyst was relatively simple.
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I had to look into my soul, look into my heart and say,"Who am I?" And once I did, I realized that, yeah, I'm not the person that I was portraying myself to be.
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The person that if you met me six years ago, you might say,"Oh, he's a good guy.
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He's a fun guy.
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He cares about people." the problem was I wasn't caring for myself, and that was all generated through a theory called the self-leadership theory, which simply put means you can't lead others until you lead yourself.
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But for me, I've kind of transformed that definition to you have to govern your inner world so that your external world displays your passions, your vision, your mission, whatever word you wanna put on it.
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But it's that key inner world because if you don't know where your inner world is and you don't know who you are and how you're operating, you're always gonna be lost.
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You're always gonna be seeking the next or, you know, we...
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Burnout's very popular in our industry right now and around the world.
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Well, burnout probably is because I'm chasing you, what you want from me, and no matter how well I know you and how caring and loving you are to me, can never really know what you're thinking about me.
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Ch-- You know, in reality, probably nobody's thinking about me anyways.
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I mean, maybe for the moment or two that I'm in front of you, you're like,"Oh, he's got crazy hair, blue eyes," something like that, but then five minutes down the road you're dealing with your own stuff.
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And so I think that leading ourselves allows us to both interact with others, but also more importantly, interact with ourselves
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And I think so many people can relate to the next degree or the next title or the next accolade or achievement externally.
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And a lot of people spend a lot of energy presenting themselves in a certain way and upholding that image externally on social media or just to other people.
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And the, the bigger the gap is between that external image and our internal, like, this is actually who I am, that, that can get us into trouble, and at the very least, we expend so much energy doing that.
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So I think what you're talking about is like making those two things one or at least closer together.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And, and you know, it's exhausting to try to live your life as an Instagram or a Facebook wants you to.
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A- I mean, it, it's great when you get the accolades, but there's a...
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One of my big inspirations is a guy named David Goggins.
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if you've ever heard of him.
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Yeah
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SEAL, real extreme athlete kind of guy.
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You know, he spoke to me in the words that I needed to hear.
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I'm not saying he's right for everybody, but he was right for me at the time.
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But he has a famous saying,"What are you gonna do when the music stops?" what are you gonna do when you don't get that 400th like, or that repost, or, you know, the promotion, or maybe you fail one of your exams, or something like that.
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And, and I think that is what we've got to guard against.
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And I am certainly not saying ambition and success and all those things you shouldn't do, but it needs to be appropriately applied to what you really want to do.
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I talk to people all the time who get to their midlife, and this whole midlife crisis that we've got, maybe it's not anything to do with our age.
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Maybe it has to do with what we're pursuing and the way that we're interacting with that pursuit every single day, because does, it, it wears you down.
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But I, I'm telling you, once I shifted my mindset, probably work harder than I did before, but I never feel burned out.
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I never feel tired.
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I never feel at the end of the day like I didn't do enough.
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In fact, it's given me freedom.
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Because I take care of me and I'm really in tune with what I want to do, I do take...
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Before we jumped on the show, we were talking about the weekend plans or whatever.
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A- and like you said, you're just gonna, you're gonna take it easy.
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Well, you know, there was a period of my life where I could never even accept that.
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And so now every, every week, I at least take one day.
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I call it my Sabbath day and, you know, from biblical, uh, traditions.
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But for that day to not do anything when you're an entrepreneur, and you know, you're, you're building your
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It's tough, yeah
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doing podcasts and all, it, it, it's, it's hard, but once you can do it, it's so beneficial
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I think, I mean, for me, at least every quarter, roughly speaking, I just have to actively do nothing, and that just recharges, replenishes, nourishes, all those, all those things.
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So I'm, I'm able to run faster for a longer period of time because I too do take those active rests.
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Um, so you were talking about you don't have to give up your pursuits, and a lot of people would be like,"Okay, if this guy's telling me just to not do anything, um, you know, I'm gonna click off." But if it's like, no, no, no, you wanna pursue things, and you can even pursue them better if you're aligned with who you are and what you're about.
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That's kind of what I'm, what I'm picking up on.
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H- how does one do that?
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You know, I, I, I think it's pretty simple.
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If you're in alignment with what you truly want or your heart hard, it's what do you think about when you have nothing left to think about?
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What do you think about right before you go to bed, I wish I would've done that, or my whole life I wanted to do this, I wanted to do that I, I think that's the simplest test.
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I also think that once you do find what you want, that's where true ambition, that's where true motivation, inspiration, whichever word you wanna apply to it, comes into play because, you know, there's a lot of talk about finding your purpose, finding your meaning in life.
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Well, that is your purpose and meaning in life, and maybe-- I was talking to a gentleman yesterday, and he was a CPA, and, you know, doing all the Wall Street things, doing everything that his parents or society wanted him to do, but he was miserable, and he left all that to go become a Navy SEAL.
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Now, both of those are massively impressive things, but he found his personal inner being, his inner, I don't know, success from being a Navy SEAL.
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So I-- You know, that, that's certainly an awesome thing, and I'm not gonna tell someone,"Oh, don't go be a Navy SEAL.
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Don't go be a Wall Street stockbroker or CPA or whatever you wanna be." just make sure you align it because if you outsource your soul and you outsource what you truly wanna do for the likes and approval of others, that's gonna wear away at you, and you're gonna become like me.
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Hopefully not.
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Hopefully th- everyone gets the warning order today, and they don't get that'cause that's my whole purpose in life.
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you're gonna come to a point where you don't know who you are, and if you don't know who you are, then you have no purpose, and more drastically, you don't have any meaning in life.
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And that is so scary to me because I lived it, I also know that it's, it's a simple just self-evaluation, self-assessment of where you're at right now and make small changes.
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I'll also say, and look, another thing I would-- don't say,"Don't burn the boats." Like, a lot of these people, when
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Yeah.
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you get this kind of thing, you're like,"Oh, I'm gonna quit my job.
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I'm gonna move to a new state." No.
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No, no, no, because that's gonna cause you more stress, more anxiety, and probably make, make you make decisions to get the instantaneous results or whatever.
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Do it slowly.
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Hmm.
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you know, I, I do a lot of coaching, and I-- through the coaching training that, that I went through, lot of people wanted to quit their nine-to- fives and become a coach immediately.
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And, you know, I just realized very soon, if you wanna be a coach or whatever you wanna be, but let's just use this as the example, what a great opportunity to coach people where you're at.
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Yeah
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where your feet are right now doesn't mean you gotta be stuck in that same mindset, but be very gentle about it.
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So I also wanna put a warning order on what I'm saying too.
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I'm not saying don't go after it with all you've got because trust me, I, I, I would be, I would be held, uh, guilty in a court if I, if I said that on my own life, right?
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I, I've got a lot of things going, but they're the right things, and once you get that, it, it'll give you joy, it'll give you satisfaction, and I think your whole life will improve.
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I think the scariest thing, one of the scariest things in life is realizing you've been hustling and grinding and sacrificing for the wrong things, and you go,"Oh.
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Oh, no." And when that realiz- realization dawns on you, some people deny it and go,"No, no.
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I just need more of the thing.
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I just need the, the next promotion, the next raise." And then they're like,"Oh, no, no, no." Um, and so I think that can be terrifying for people to stop and be like,"Okay, let me get done with my surface level thinking here and, like, look myself in the mirror and go,'Okay, what's going on?
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Who am I?
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What am I about?
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What do I want?'" That is, like, terrifying to a lot of people.
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Um, and so is that, is that where kind of the hard hard comes in, where it's like this is the real work?
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I mean, you can talk about work and being productive out there, but looking yourself in the mirror and going,"Okay, what am I gonna be about?" Is, like, the, the hard work.
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Yeah, I'm so glad you used the mirror analogy because it, it is like that.
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So when I, when I started my weight journey, um, I thought,"Oh, if I lose weight, I'll like myself." And so I was doing the workouts.
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I mean, I was pretty committed to it.
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And when I say pretty, because, like, if you called me up and said,"Hey, let's go watch a movie," or,"Let's go to dinner," or something like that, I hadn't got my workout in, probably would've abandoned it to go with you.
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But one day I'm looking, it's like 4:00 o'clock in the morning'cause I had to go somewhere, and it was cold and rainy, and I didn't wanna do it.
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And I'm just, like, looking at myself in the mirror, and I'm like,"Well, you don't have to do it.
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Like, what's the real reason?" Well, for whatever reason, I kind of had a bolt of lightning hit me that day, and I was like,"Well, the reason isn't to lose weight.
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The reason is to become a happier, better person." And so my why shifted at that very s- moment because I was looking in the mirror trying, trying to give myself excuses to not do something, yet at the same time, I found the answer, and so it became a lot easier to go do it.
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And I found myself a lot more committed to it and dedicated to it.
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And I know because that, that why changed, that that was gonna be, I, I was gonna have, um, the ability to keep going on.
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Whereas if you're kind of half committed...
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Have you ever heard about the, the analogy of breakfast?
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The, uh, the chicken participates, but the hog commits.
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Yeah.
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And, and, so, so a friend of mine, we used to talk about this when we played golf.
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We'd say,"Hey, we call it hogging, to go practicing,'cause we're gonna commit to get better." Well, it's kind of that commitment point.
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But the only way you're gonna do it is to ask yourself questions.
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And I'll tell you what, it's very scary to be honest with yourself, because most of us have been lying to ourselves for a long time.
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How many times have we say,"I'll do this next week.
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I'll do this next week"?
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And the more and more you do that, the harder it is to change.
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The brain will try to protect you from doing that the more you say,"I'm gonna do it," and then not do it.
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So get into that core, get into that mirror exercise and, and really...
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I, I say you're gonna ask yourself questions that you may not like the answer to, in a year from now, a month from now, you are gonna like it because you're gonna start seeing those changes in everything that you do
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So you've said you've reached these catalyst moments where it's like,"And that was the moment where things shifted for me." If I were to ask you today, what is your hard heart or what is your purpose, what would you, what would you say?
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My purpose is to help as many people as I can not become like me.
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Start seeing these signs before they hit rock bottom.
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So I came from a military environment, of course I still kind of am in that community, and I've seen way too many people take the ultimate out.
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And if I can get one person, whether they're suicidal or not, to live a better life, that means the world's gonna be a better place, and that is my one purpose.
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So yeah, I know that's kind of obtuse and it sounds kind of lofty, so to narrow it down, every day I try to make one person's life better.
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嗯
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be a smile while I'm walking my dog, raising my...
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You know, waving to them as they drive by.
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In fact, I, I d- I do this all the time and my wife's always like,"Who's that?" I'm like,"I have no idea." But maybe that person just needed a big
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Yeah
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a couple of stupid dogs to, to wave and show them that there's happiness in the world.
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And then the way I talk, you know, encourage people, you know, try to be present with them, try to, you know, no matter what I'm feeling, if I'm sick or if, you know, and I have off days too.
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I know on these podcasts it sounds like,"Oh man, this guy's got it figured out, he's like a ball of joy." Ask my wife.
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She'll tell you there are days that I'm, I'd be grumpy.
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In fact, the other day I was coming back from a trip, she's like,"You know you can't be grumpy when you get home." And I'm like,"Yeah, I can be, but I choose not to be grumpy." A- and those are the kind of decisions that you kind of make.
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You start building these standards for your life that, like, no matter how I am.
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And so that is my purpose, and everything I do around that I kind of can question, is this gonna make, you know, my life better first as a self leader, but then is it gonna make everyone else's life better around me?
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And you mentioned, um, kind of the expectation sentiment there.
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I think a big part of leading yourself is knowing what expectations or standards you hold for yourself.
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'Cause so many times we're running around trying to meet other people's expectations or rise to other people's standards when that might be a moving target, and we don't go,"But what do I stand for?
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And what do I stand against?
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And what, what values do I hold and that are immovable?
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What values that I held when I was a kid'cause I was given those by my parents or society, but now I'm gonna put those down." So, how does that initial process of, like, learning how to lead yourself come about?
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Is it the, the pain point of like,"Oh my gosh, I'm chasing after all these things and it's empty.
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It's nothing," and you have to figure it out?
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Or is there kind of some prompts or guidance that you can, um, throw out there to help people with like,"Oh, yeah.
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Okay, if I was gonna start leading myself, here's maybe where I'd start"?
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Yeah, yeah.
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A- and I'm glad you said standards because I think that's the one thing we kind of miss in Western culture today, is we don't have standards, and we, we waver from them so easily.
00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:41.500
So I think whenever you decide to go make a change, Marcus Aurelius refers to standards as you're a rock in the ocean and the waves just crash against you, but you're still a rock.
00:17:41.691 --> 00:17:45.490
No matter what hits you day in and day out, you, you're gonna be the same person.
00:17:45.871 --> 00:17:52.661
And so I do believe that part of self-leadership is building this, uh, philosophy, standards that, that you're gonna guide by.
00:17:52.861 --> 00:18:03.621
Now, it's not gonna come immediately, and a lot of people make the mistake of, you know, setting the expectation as the standard, and it can't be that way.
00:18:03.810 --> 00:18:06.310
So take me at 354 pounds.
00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:08.391
Let's just say my goal was to run a marathon.
00:18:08.441 --> 00:18:11.691
Well, at that time, I probably couldn't run to the end of my driveway.
00:18:11.951 --> 00:18:16.601
So if I went out immediately and say,"The standard is I'm gonna run 10 miles a day," you're not gonna do it.
00:18:16.911 --> 00:18:19.661
Now, a lot of experts in the field kind of disagree with me.
00:18:19.661 --> 00:18:26.500
They think you should put the marathon out there and then break them into sub-standards, but I think your standard should be move every day.
00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:31.891
So simplify it to the m- the big- the smallest level that you can, and make it, make it a thing.
00:18:31.921 --> 00:18:34.020
And don't put a timeframe around it initially.
00:18:34.020 --> 00:18:39.361
Don't put kinda any kinda like all these trackers and stuff that we've got out now that tell you how many steps you take and all that.
00:18:39.851 --> 00:18:44.250
Just you know more e- that you can do more today than you did yesterday.
00:18:44.441 --> 00:18:46.810
And you know, a lot of people say the 1% better.
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:52.730
So pick your standard and then make it 1% more every week, every month, whatever works for you.
00:18:52.931 --> 00:18:53.401
You gotta...
00:18:53.510 --> 00:18:59.451
Burger King always said,"Have it your way," and that's kinda how we have to see our, our self-development and our self-improvement.
00:19:00.340 --> 00:19:03.060
Have it your way, but have a standard.
00:19:04.300 --> 00:19:08.651
I do like one audacious kind of standard that you do.
00:19:08.661 --> 00:19:13.280
Like mine, and this is really weird, it's the first time I've ever said this on a podcast, so this is fresh for you.
00:19:13.681 --> 00:19:14.101
The...
00:19:14.590 --> 00:19:18.770
I, I used to love M&M's, I have nothing against M&M's.
00:19:18.790 --> 00:19:20.560
I, you know, they're probably great.
00:19:20.871 --> 00:19:28.070
But I one day just said,"The standard is I will not eat an M&M anymore." And I know that sounds kinda really stupid, but M&M's are everywhere, right?
00:19:28.070 --> 00:19:31.550
You go at a cookie tray at a reception or something, they got M&M's on them.
00:19:31.550 --> 00:19:34.550
So, so it just gives you one thing that you can walk away from.
00:19:34.951 --> 00:19:35.621
And think about it.
00:19:35.631 --> 00:19:44.211
If you're living a life of defeat, whether or not you verbalize it or really have internalized it yet, we- we're defeated in so many things that we attempt.
00:19:44.221 --> 00:19:53.131
So this small standard of not eating an M&M, think how good you feel when you walk away from the table and you're like,"I didn't eat an M&M." Now, I also do crazy things.
00:19:53.131 --> 00:20:01.290
Like if I'm at a conference or something and they have M&M's, I'll line up every color in front of me at my table or desk just to like test myself and say,
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:02.039
Wow
00:20:02.201 --> 00:20:03.000
deep is your standard?
00:20:03.181 --> 00:20:13.553
And I know this is a kind of a, a glib example here, but Find what your standard is, establish it, attack it, win it, and then establish the next standard.
00:20:13.553 --> 00:20:17.833
But what I really don't want people to do is go out there and try to change everything in one day.
00:20:17.833 --> 00:20:19.252
Rome wasn't built in a day.
00:20:19.442 --> 00:20:24.553
You didn't get to where you're at today, your dis- dissatisfaction with your life, so take it slow.
00:20:24.603 --> 00:20:31.133
And, and be steady with it, but be consistent,'cause consistency will outweigh a day of effort every single time
00:20:31.923 --> 00:20:34.544
I think it's consistency over intensity.
00:20:34.544 --> 00:20:50.814
So if you're going,"I'm gonna be consistent, but incrementally I'm gonna get better," that's more powerful than,"I'm gonna give it all today and then be dead for the next six months." Um, you've kind of mentioned faith, philosophy in, in a couple different things you've said.
00:20:50.814 --> 00:20:55.394
I'm wondering, how does, how does faith and philosophy play into self-leadership?
00:20:57.671 --> 00:21:06.691
Yeah, I definitely, philosophy is, is something that everyone has to wrestle with, and I think when you couple it with faith, it makes it more powerful.
00:21:06.810 --> 00:21:14.840
Um, because a lot of the philosophies that are out there, whether it's Zen or Stoicism or, or Confucianism, a lot of these, uh, they, they don't have...
00:21:15.141 --> 00:21:19.740
They kinda have like an ambiguous kind of, I don't know, metaverse kind of thing out there.
00:21:20.750 --> 00:21:25.330
I personally, my faith is kinda what was the final straw for me.
00:21:25.361 --> 00:21:32.611
Now, I grew up in a Christian home, and I was well-versed in all these kinda things, but I turned my back on them because I didn't think I need them.
00:21:32.611 --> 00:21:41.040
And I don't know how familiar you are, and I don't know how far if this is third rail or not, but in the Bible, the, the two greatest commandments are love the Lord your God, love your neighbor, love yourself.
00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:49.250
and I realized at one point that I had made myself my God, and I didn't love myself.
00:21:49.371 --> 00:21:53.931
I didn't even like myself, how in the world could I love my neighbor?
00:21:54.351 --> 00:21:58.570
So, when I read this in my 40s, even though I'd heard it, and we've all heard it, right?
00:21:58.570 --> 00:22:01.060
It's like the golden rule, do unto others, all that kinda stuff.
00:22:01.060 --> 00:22:04.070
It's kinda devolved over t- time to, to modern vernacular.
00:22:04.070 --> 00:22:11.191
But to me, knowing that that faith and then going and finding my God and knowing that I can...
00:22:11.330 --> 00:22:14.320
'Cause it, it gives, it gives to your purpose.
00:22:14.330 --> 00:22:24.971
It's greater than you, and I think, you know, a lot of times self-leadership, people are like,"Oh, that sounds very selfish because the word self in there." No, it's selfless, at the same time, it's gotta have some kinda fuel in there.
00:22:24.971 --> 00:22:35.000
So, I'm a big believer in faith, and then r- I realized that, like, in my analysis of my own faith, I needed standards, so I needed a philosophy.
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:36.671
So, here's another third rail.
00:22:36.681 --> 00:22:44.490
I, I've kinda been combining Stoicism and Christianity together because they both were at the same period.
00:22:44.540 --> 00:22:46.020
They both kinda say the same thing.
00:22:46.030 --> 00:22:47.300
"Don't worry about tomorrow.
00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:50.401
Tomorrow has enough problems of its own," can be found in both texts.
00:22:50.851 --> 00:23:05.520
And, but, but the Stoics say,"Control what you can control, and leave what you can't control." And I think that's one of the things that, like, was really important to me, especially in when you're in a recovery or, uh, you're trying to get better, there's so many things you can't control.
00:23:05.661 --> 00:23:07.641
Like, let's go back to the example of that run.
00:23:07.701 --> 00:23:14.701
I couldn't control the weather that day, but what I could control was whether or not I went out and did the work that I said I was gonna go do.
00:23:15.181 --> 00:23:16.911
Um, so I hope that answers your question.
00:23:16.911 --> 00:23:18.601
I know it was kinda, like, all over the place.
00:23:19.059 --> 00:23:19.619
No, it was good.
00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:20.029
I like it.
00:23:20.029 --> 00:23:36.829
I think that, um, a lot of times when we go after these external things, we're trying to feed our notion of ourselves, our ego, and when you bust out of that and you go,"There's something more powerful than me," whatever you wanna call that, but there's something more powerful.
00:23:36.869 --> 00:23:44.960
I'm, I am a small but important part of something much larger, and, uh, I'm part of someone else's story.
00:23:45.009 --> 00:23:47.579
I'm not the main character of my own story.
00:23:47.730 --> 00:23:58.599
When that flip actually happens, everything looks different, and all the experiences and all the interactions and all the choices you have going forward look different.
00:23:58.609 --> 00:23:59.450
So I don't know.
00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:02.150
I mean, that's just what came up when, when you were speaking.
00:24:02.150 --> 00:24:14.180
But, um, when it's, you know, love God and love your neighbor as yourself, uh, you've gotta do those two things, and they can happen in a million different ways, but it's about...
00:24:14.210 --> 00:24:15.309
It's not about you.
00:24:15.329 --> 00:24:30.359
It's not about egocentric, and it's, and it's almost like when you're all about yourself and you're in your own little small world, you kind of cave in on yourself and you're like a black hole, um, sucking your own self in.
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:40.309
And so it's like opening yourself up and like,"Look, let's just, let's just be external and, and go towards something bigger." Anyway, that was my, that was my ramble response to what you said.
00:24:40.530 --> 00:24:51.800
if I can reply to that real quick, I, I love the way you said that because something that I've been thinking is, like, self-leadership is actually kind of removing yourself, and that's exactly what you're talking about.
00:24:51.800 --> 00:24:55.461
Because the self is, like, people have names.
00:24:55.471 --> 00:24:56.601
You know, I'm Bobby.
00:24:57.040 --> 00:25:00.540
But really am I Bobby, or is Bobby just a name that we...
00:25:00.627 --> 00:25:01.188
Hmm.
00:25:01.391 --> 00:25:01.540
I'm
00:25:01.627 --> 00:25:02.018
Yeah
00:25:02.201 --> 00:25:07.631
from a guy th- uh, that I was talking to yesterday, but he said that they just gave me a name so they don't lose me in a department store.
00:25:07.641 --> 00:25:10.990
Like, where's, where's that guy or where's that little man or whatever?
00:25:10.990 --> 00:25:12.681
No one would know what you're talking about, but where's Bobby?
00:25:12.681 --> 00:25:13.020
Okay.
00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:16.461
then we start identifying with what Bobby is.
00:25:16.490 --> 00:25:21.760
And, you know, as we, as we grow up, you know, our parents have, you know, they, they set the standards.
00:25:22.030 --> 00:25:23.490
They tell you what they wanna do.
00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:29.320
You know, if you go to the school, they, they help reinforce that, or a church or, or any civic organization that you're a part of.
00:25:30.131 --> 00:25:42.431
And, and really what self-leadership is about, and I'm coming to terms with this and we're kinda noodling this right here on the show, r- maybe, maybe not the wisest choice, but it's removing yourself to become, like you said, part of the, the greater good.
00:25:42.750 --> 00:25:48.221
And, you know, like, that the self is a vessel but the soul is what really what...
00:25:48.280 --> 00:25:49.980
Maybe this should be called soul leadership.
00:25:50.020 --> 00:25:50.631
I don't know.
00:25:50.631 --> 00:25:54.020
But, uh, it, I, I love exactly what you said, so let me thank you for letting me-
00:25:54.410 --> 00:25:55.309
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:25:55.329 --> 00:25:57.980
Like, the last thing I'll say on this is I, I believe it was St.
00:25:57.980 --> 00:26:05.700
Irenaeus that said, um,"The glory of God is a human being fully alive." So it's not competitive.
00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:08.880
It's not like I have to diminish myself and make myself disappear.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.319
No, no, no.
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:21.460
Like, you need to be full, vibrant to all your faculties and beyond, and that's, uh, what gives, what gives glory to God or honor to the universe or honoring your neighbor or whatever you wanna go, um, about it that way.
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:26.720
But yeah, like to be fully alive, I'm like, ooh, what does that mean?
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:29.690
Like, what does that mean for humans, and what does that mean for me specifically?
00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:31.119
What does that mean for me right now?
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:31.720
That's a...
00:26:32.130 --> 00:26:33.500
I mean, that's an interesting question
00:26:33.724 --> 00:26:39.575
Yeah, that's, that's, that's really philosophical, and that may, that may, uh, solve the debate of everyone wants to be present and all that.
00:26:39.575 --> 00:26:42.865
May- maybe the only way to be pr- fully present is to be fully alive.
00:26:42.894 --> 00:26:55.875
And I would say, how can you be fully alive if you're trapped work or going about your life in a manner that doesn't align with what your soul, your heart, your being wants you to be?
00:26:56.295 --> 00:26:57.994
And yeah, this is, this is pretty deep.
00:26:58.005 --> 00:26:58.674
We should, uh, we
00:26:58.811 --> 00:26:59.402
I know.
00:26:59.484 --> 00:27:00.025
on this later.
00:27:00.025 --> 00:27:00.525
Yeah, this is
00:27:00.652 --> 00:27:01.842
Philosophical, yeah.
00:27:01.991 --> 00:27:14.102
Well, I think it's important because, you know, I- we're roughly the same age, and I think at, like, midlife point, a lot of my life was dictated by, okay, like, uh, my parents and my family, like,"You're gonna go do these things.
00:27:14.102 --> 00:27:14.731
You're gonna go to college.
00:27:14.731 --> 00:27:16.582
You're gonna go do these things," which are fine and great.
00:27:16.892 --> 00:27:23.321
But then you get to, like, your 20s, 30s, certainly your 40s, and it's like, oh, I'm an adult now.
00:27:24.082 --> 00:27:25.912
I decide what I'm going to do.
00:27:26.682 --> 00:27:31.122
So the rest of my life is based off my decisions and my agency.
00:27:31.122 --> 00:27:33.612
It's like, okay, so what is that gonna be about?
00:27:33.622 --> 00:27:38.251
And I think that's, uh, again, both terrifying and thrilling and exhilarating all the same, all the same time.
00:27:39.133 --> 00:27:39.682
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:39.682 --> 00:27:47.603
It's, it is funny that, you know, you talk to a 30-year-old or a 20-year-old now and, like, the perspective is so different, and you see a lot of yourself in that.
00:27:47.603 --> 00:27:48.482
But yeah, you're right.
00:27:48.982 --> 00:28:00.482
It is freeing, but then when you have responsibilities and employees or job roles or whatever, it's like sometimes it's like, ooh, now you gotta deal with that nuance that like, hey, it's not about me anymore.
00:28:00.482 --> 00:28:05.522
And maybe that's where a lot of awakening, and maybe that's why you see so many people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s kinda waking up
00:28:05.561 --> 00:28:05.932
Yeah
00:28:06.383 --> 00:28:08.502
they, they, they're shifting their mind.
00:28:08.512 --> 00:28:17.942
They, they have enough love, they have enough money, they have enough whatever to get them through their lives that then they can start really start, you know, being fully alive as you were talking about earlier.
00:28:18.951 --> 00:28:24.021
Well, I think one of the things you said that really resonated with me is y- y- you don't get burned out.
00:28:24.092 --> 00:28:25.122
I mean, you get tired.
00:28:25.192 --> 00:28:29.491
I think as entrepreneurs we get tired, but we never get burned out in the same way.
00:28:29.662 --> 00:28:32.471
I worked for, um, a startup, and there was, uh...
00:28:32.771 --> 00:28:36.321
the founder was my boss, and he was, um, a great guy.
00:28:36.491 --> 00:28:44.842
He was relentless, like in all the connotations of the word, relentless all the time, and he was going after his dream, and he had a big transaction, um, sold his company.
00:28:45.021 --> 00:28:51.352
And I was, like, working 16, 18 hours a day and killing myself for his dream, for literally for his company.
00:28:51.731 --> 00:28:57.602
And at the end of that, I was like,"I got some good experience from that, but I'm never doing that again.
00:28:57.852 --> 00:28:58.902
I'm never doing that again.
00:28:58.922 --> 00:28:59.481
I'll do it.
00:28:59.721 --> 00:29:00.811
I'll make my own dream.
00:29:00.882 --> 00:29:13.301
I'll make my own kind of path in the world, but I'm not gonna break myself and burn myself out for someone else, um, ever, ever again in that kind of direct, direct way." Uh, so how do people...
00:29:13.301 --> 00:29:16.491
If they're like,"I, I want that, but I have no idea what that is.
00:29:16.521 --> 00:29:31.321
I'm so caught up in my own little world," Bobby, how do you even start figuring out,"Here's what would make me so energized and so, um, ready to, to run over time that it, that it lasts"?
00:29:31.944 --> 00:29:34.755
Yeah, and I mean, that's gonna be different for everyone.
00:29:35.234 --> 00:29:41.244
Um, but, uh, the most simple thing you can do is just start being satisfied with what you've got today.
00:29:41.714 --> 00:29:44.075
So often it's like,"Oh, I wanna do this.
00:29:44.085 --> 00:29:48.565
If I get this car or this house," or whatever you, you, you label it as.
00:29:49.184 --> 00:29:59.785
But if you're like,"Hey, I've got what I need right now," that will calm your mind enough to then say,"Okay, well what does the future look like?" And I think laying out a little bit of a plan and kind of...
00:30:00.005 --> 00:30:05.194
You know, it's really hard because, you know, an ideal is h- the way you perceive the world today.
00:30:05.265 --> 00:30:10.505
So it is a little bit dangerous to say,"Well, in five years this, 12 years this," whatever the, the timeframe is.
00:30:11.914 --> 00:30:17.234
But I think if you're, if you really take away all these, like, things that bother you, all the stressors.
00:30:17.244 --> 00:30:23.444
So, you know, so many people say,"I don't wanna look at my phone all the time," and, but yet they do look at their phone all the time.
00:30:23.444 --> 00:30:27.585
Well, just, just turn your phone off or put it in your car or, you know, remove it.
00:30:27.825 --> 00:30:32.755
So remove all of those obstacles will then allow you to then go focus on these kind of things,
00:30:32.786 --> 00:30:33.135
Yeah
00:30:33.275 --> 00:30:41.505
And then for the people that are in jobs like you describe, where they're working these 16, 18 hours a day, um, you know, take, learn from it.
00:30:41.734 --> 00:30:48.045
Like, don't say,"Oh man, I, I'm, I, I have to do this." Well, you, you agreed to do to it, so you don't have to do it.
00:30:48.045 --> 00:30:49.765
I mean, the option is always to quit.
00:30:49.775 --> 00:30:52.994
In most states in the, in the US you can quit your job whenever you want to.
00:30:53.005 --> 00:30:54.065
I think all of them, right?
00:30:54.065 --> 00:30:54.805
And, and you know.
00:30:54.805 --> 00:30:59.005
And, and so remember, d- don't be a mercenary for mercenary's sake.
00:30:59.335 --> 00:31:01.095
Take that time and learn.
00:31:01.184 --> 00:31:04.615
Like, everything that you do in life is, is an example.
00:31:05.335 --> 00:31:07.565
could be a good example or it could be a bad example.
00:31:07.974 --> 00:31:09.375
But it is what you see it.
00:31:09.484 --> 00:31:14.984
So if you're working for someone who's running you down to, to meet their vision, well either, one, quit.
00:31:15.115 --> 00:31:24.214
You know, a lot of times in society and these high-performing people will say,"Oh, nobody likes a quitter." Well, if I told you I quit doing heroin, would you be like,"Bobby, you're stupid.
00:31:24.214 --> 00:31:24.944
Why did you quit?
00:31:24.954 --> 00:31:26.954
Man, you gotta keep going," or I quit smoking or whatever.
00:31:27.234 --> 00:31:29.914
So if it's harming you, quit it.
00:31:30.555 --> 00:31:32.855
But again, I'm not saying that that's the ultimate job.
00:31:33.164 --> 00:31:33.664
My, my...
00:31:33.674 --> 00:31:36.194
What I'd prefer you do is go in there with a new attitude.
00:31:36.204 --> 00:31:37.634
What can I learn today?
00:31:37.855 --> 00:31:39.664
What can I learn that I don't wanna be?
00:31:40.045 --> 00:31:45.954
I was talking to a gentleman right before we, we filmed today and, you know, h- he's really burned out in his job.
00:31:46.345 --> 00:31:51.144
And he's having a hard time motivating his employees to, to, to move forward.
00:31:51.464 --> 00:31:55.085
And I said,"Well, what good can come of this?" Because I knew he was gonna start his own company soon.
00:31:55.085 --> 00:32:02.644
I said,"What lessons can you learn when you build your company to make sure the same situation never happens again?" And immediately this guy was like,"Yeah.
00:32:03.045 --> 00:32:04.255
You know, this is my purpose.
00:32:04.255 --> 00:32:09.565
I can learn bad mistakes and correct them in the future." And I said,"Yeah, that doesn't mean you're gonna, you're gonna get it all right either," right?
00:32:09.565 --> 00:32:10.484
None of us get it all right.
00:32:10.944 --> 00:32:14.684
But giving yourself that allowance and that space to really look at something.
00:32:14.694 --> 00:32:22.315
There was a, a French philosopher, I think, and I, and I'm terrible with names and remembering names, but it said,"Whether you're happy or sad is up to you."
00:32:22.885 --> 00:32:23.316
Uh-huh
00:32:23.580 --> 00:32:29.351
Imagine if we apply that to the work that we're doing now that we feel stuck in or we're in a situation where we're working long hours.
00:32:30.790 --> 00:32:39.451
Just look at the situation differently and say before you walk in, and it's not, not, not being fake or whatever, but just say,"What do I need for today?
00:32:39.461 --> 00:32:43.300
What c- would make me happy today while I'm in this situation?" And just see what happens.
00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:45.740
I think most people will find benefit in that
00:32:47.049 --> 00:32:52.630
And a lot of people go,"Oh, that's easier said than done'cause I have this horrible situation." It is 100% in your control,
00:32:53.628 --> 00:32:53.959
Yeah.
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:54.099
is-
00:32:54.179 --> 00:32:54.409
It,
00:32:54.849 --> 00:32:55.240
Yeah
00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:56.348
not, it's not easy.
00:32:56.348 --> 00:32:58.179
I mean, I know I'm standing and saying it's easy.
00:32:58.199 --> 00:32:59.459
It's gonna take time.
00:32:59.898 --> 00:33:09.868
But what you do is if you go into work tomorrow and it's a rough day, well maybe it was only rough 10% of the time, and that's better than 90% of the time where you hate it.
00:33:09.949 --> 00:33:13.679
I, I mean, I, I used to hate my job, and I, I'm an entrepreneur.
00:33:13.679 --> 00:33:14.788
I kinda do my own thing.
00:33:14.788 --> 00:33:16.739
But of course, you never really truly work for yourself.
00:33:16.739 --> 00:33:18.489
You always work for someone, a customer, a
00:33:18.698 --> 00:33:20.397
You always have someone to answer to, yes.
00:33:20.429 --> 00:33:21.298
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:21.638 --> 00:33:27.699
But one day my wife just basically said to me, she said,"You know, what you do allows you to do all these other things.
00:33:27.739 --> 00:33:27.878
It
00:33:27.958 --> 00:33:28.238
Yeah
00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:29.088
you to write your books.
00:33:29.088 --> 00:33:31.288
It allows you to do your podcast." And you know what?
00:33:31.429 --> 00:33:34.679
That alone, that little just snap of reality is like, yeah.
00:33:35.469 --> 00:33:42.338
then I can't tell you how many examples I have to, to write the next newsletter that come from the situation that I used to hate.
00:33:42.568 --> 00:33:48.739
And, and I tell you what, I wouldn't have recognized it because I went in there with such a bad attitude and I was like,"Oh, woe is Bobby, you know, this is terrible.
00:33:48.749 --> 00:33:50.179
How am I gonna make it to 5:00?
00:33:50.429 --> 00:33:53.108
How am I gonna get out of here?" Well now, now I'm there.
00:33:53.108 --> 00:33:59.999
I'm gonna have to be there anyways, so might as well take it as a learning opportunity and really enjoy what, what the process is.
00:34:00.229 --> 00:34:02.929
And that's what a lot of people say, enjoy the process, not the end result.
00:34:03.138 --> 00:34:04.739
Well, that's what I'm talking about.
00:34:04.878 --> 00:34:09.148
Take it day by day, and again, you're not gonna nail it every day.
00:34:09.148 --> 00:34:17.119
I can tell you all, I, what, it's Friday, I, I probably missed it a couple days this week myself, and it's, it's okay.
00:34:17.188 --> 00:34:22.048
You gotta be okay with that because if you, if you beat yourself up too hard, you're just gonna get back to the same spot
00:34:22.505 --> 00:34:22.835
Yeah.
00:34:23.065 --> 00:34:37.675
And I think the realization, I used to go like,"Life happens to me, and I hope today is okay, and I hope people treat me this way, and I hope I don't have any hard meetings." Um, and then, like, for some reason one day I just made a switch and was like,"I decide.
00:34:37.846 --> 00:34:45.206
I'm in 100% control all the time of how this goes." Now, that doesn't mean I can control, like, external events or anything, but I can control...
00:34:45.206 --> 00:34:48.195
I'm in charge of my response and what I make it mean.
00:34:48.456 --> 00:34:53.246
And as soon as I unlocked that, I was like boosh, okay, you can't touch me in, in the way you could before.
00:34:53.246 --> 00:34:55.626
You can't affect my day in the way you could before.
00:34:55.626 --> 00:34:59.545
So that was very freeing and liberating when I embraced that fully.
00:34:59.766 --> 00:35:06.865
Um, as we wind down here, Bobby, uh, I know in my life the definition of success has changed and evolved quite a bit.
00:35:06.876 --> 00:35:10.746
So I'm wondering, it sounds like you've done a lot of self-reflection and self-work.
00:35:10.956 --> 00:35:13.735
Where are you sitting now with your definition of success?
00:35:15.527 --> 00:35:19.106
I think it goes back to what you just said prior to asking that question.
00:35:19.396 --> 00:35:26.467
If every day I can control my attitude and behaviors and see the positive in it, um, and...
00:35:27.327 --> 00:35:34.336
'Cause success i- i- is making everyone's life as better, as best as I can, you know, and giving.
00:35:34.376 --> 00:35:39.237
And so if I can control myself and be that positive influence for them, that's success.
00:35:39.237 --> 00:35:47.297
Now, it's not measurable because a lot of people will read something I write or listen to a podcast, and I'll never know if it influences their life.
00:35:47.297 --> 00:35:51.657
Sometimes you do, and I don't know about you, I'm sure you get emails sometimes and it just lights your day up.
00:35:51.657 --> 00:35:52.956
That dopamine hit's great.
00:35:53.567 --> 00:35:58.896
So success there is if I cannot waste every day,'cause we're not promised tomorrow.
00:35:59.487 --> 00:36:06.126
And if I can make every single day the best possible I can, that is success.
00:36:06.856 --> 00:36:18.016
And it has nothing to do with salary or jobs won or any of that stuff anymore, because all that stuff happens, and you'll hear a million people say once you get to this mindset, everything else takes care of itself.
00:36:18.367 --> 00:36:21.876
Well, I'm gonna tell you right now, everything is taking care of itself anyways.
00:36:22.077 --> 00:36:24.166
That doesn't mean we, we, we haven't had hard times.
00:36:24.166 --> 00:36:26.856
I mean, I've lost l- I've grown businesses, lost them.
00:36:27.077 --> 00:36:28.516
I, you know, that all happens.
00:36:28.516 --> 00:36:31.197
But in the end of the day, everything's okay.
00:36:31.856 --> 00:36:38.056
And n- your recognition that everything's okay is probably the most valuable thing.
00:36:38.077 --> 00:36:44.436
If, and you take one thing out of this podcast today, control how you look at things and make that your success.
00:36:44.786 --> 00:36:47.936
And as Kermit the Frog say,"May success and its survival be yours."
00:36:49.277 --> 00:36:49.898
Beautiful.
00:36:50.047 --> 00:36:55.197
We will end on that note, but Bobbie, thank you so much for coming on and sharing a whole bunch of your insights.
00:36:55.438 --> 00:37:00.748
If someone is like,"Where do I get this book?" Or,"How do I reach out to Bobbie?" What is the best place to contact you?
00:37:01.373 --> 00:37:06.253
Yeah, um, you can get everything at a website, battlecatcoaching.com.
00:37:06.293 --> 00:37:10.222
Um, it's a coaching, but I kinda, I ad hoc coach, so I'm not gonna sell you anything.
00:37:10.222 --> 00:37:10.853
Don't worry about that.
00:37:10.853 --> 00:37:11.512
But it'll have links.
00:37:11.512 --> 00:37:20.913
But the book's on Amazon, and of course, if you're interested in more of these kind of discussions and interviews around this topic, uh, the Self Leadership Lab, which is on all the places that podcasts are found
00:37:21.833 --> 00:37:24.063
And we will have all that information in the show notes.
00:37:24.094 --> 00:37:25.474
And Bobby, thank you so much once
00:37:25.911 --> 00:37:26.311
Thank you
00:37:28.311 --> 00:37:35.811
If today's episode gave you a new idea, a fresh perspective, or something practical to try, please consider sharing it with a friend or colleague.
00:37:36.391 --> 00:37:39.840
People deserve great leaders, and becoming one is harder than it looks.
00:37:40.630 --> 00:37:46.181
Let's keep learning, growing, and getting a little bit better together, one conversation at a time.