speaker-0: We're doing due diligence to the end product, but we're also doing it in a way that fits within the budget constraints. How do we make things efficient without losing quality?
speaker-1: Yeah, and stay creative, not limit the work and ideally enable it. If you're over explaining or like over prescribing what the end product is going to be from like a creative director standpoint, you're likely losing a lot of the heart or like what could really end up making a big impact down the road.
speaker-0: I'm more also the person who's like, give me your vision and I can help refine it versus I have this vision.
speaker-1: I know that there are a lot of filmmakers I've spoken to that it's hell sitting behind the computer looking at the same thing over and over and I think that's where you and I are like, but that's where we come alive. Welcome to Let's Fix Post, a show about making post-production smoother, smarter, and more collaborative for creative teams and editors alike. Hit subscribe now so you don't miss future episodes. Today I'm chatting with Raquel Robles, a senior editor and supervisor at Arceus Creative who has been in the trenches with us since 2018. What's really valuable about Raquel's perspective is her focus on the editor's seat. She gives us a look at the unique mindset required to thrive in post-production. What I genuinely appreciate about Raquel is that she views every project not just as a task, but as a complex jigsaw puzzle that needs a specific kind of patience to solve. And after having done a few escape rooms together, I know the project is in great hands whenever she's on board. In our conversation today, Raquel and I talk about why a student mindset is the secret weapon for surviving a brutal round of revisions. Raquel explains how approaching an edit with humility allows you to treat feedback as a learning opportunity rather than a personal critique. We discussed the Frankenstein method of stitching together authentic stories and why happy accidents in the footage are things that AI just simply can't replicate. I really enjoyed our conversation and I hope that you do too. Let's get into it. Raquel, thank you for joining me on Let's Fix Post. I don't think I really have to explain the channel much to you because you've helped us develop it. I just think that there's a really unique opportunity to get our own team's perspective. Just like, you know, your experience sitting in the editor seat at a post house. I think that is a unique and valuable ⁓ perspective to keep in mind here. But before we get into that, tell the people a little bit about you and like, I don't know, kind of your journey. maybe pre-Archaus and kind of how you came into this field.
speaker-0: Yeah, for sure. Thank you, Dave, for having me on this podcast. Very honored to be part of it. there we go. I guess to give context to who I am now. So I am currently a team member with Arceus. I wear a lot of hats. I don't know if my hat has a label. It changes. Currently, I'm editing, supervising a little bit of project management, a little bit of behind the scenes type of business.
speaker-1: Check that
speaker-0: planning and stuff with you and another one of our team members, Alex, who I'm sure will be on this as well. Part of this, was not planning to be a video editor or anything like that. I had planned to be a history teacher. And in my last year of college, I worked on a family project. The idea was like a docudrama type thing. So it was a documentary of my grandparents' story of how they met. And then we as grandchildren reenacted their meeting and courtship and it was shown at like their 50th anniversary. And in that process, I was like, ⁓ I'm in the wrong field. Like I don't want to be a teacher. I want to edit. Just being in that aspect of storytelling and just creating films. Like I just really loved it. In my last year of college, I just kind of like really tried to find opportunities to figure out how to build this skill because like I previously didn't have any, like I had things in high school video projects or whatever, but like I didn't have any like formal training. So I looked for opportunities with like internships, freelance work, also just doing projects on my own as well. ⁓ cause I felt like I'm a very learn by doing person. like I can open up a textbook, I could open up a book, I could watch podcasts, but by doing the thing that I wanted to do, I was gaining the most experience and also kind of finding what part of filmmaking that I really liked. I knew I really liked editing, but I also felt like it's the end thing. like to do that, I had to also find videos and things. So I had to like either create it or find someone who had it to edit. The biggest learning aspect for me has just been doing and refining that through feedback and things like that. Working with other people who have better skills than I do too, like to become a better editor and everything like that.
speaker-1: Yeah, so really having kind of like the student mindset, right? Like you're you're there to learn you don't know everything. I think that's a good quality to have just I think that we look for that when we recruit to write like somebody who there has to be that innate skill and you have to like bring some amount of passion and talent to the table. But also especially like we'll get into like revisions later. But as you know, revisions like almost every project. right? It's pretty rare that a project wouldn't have revision. So in that comes a certain amount of humility of needing to be like, Oh, I recognize, you know, what can I learn from this situation? I kind of want to back up to like, it seemed like you alluded to in the college project, but like, what about editing in particular really drew you in? And maybe what about the other elements, maybe particularly production, right? Didn't you like maybe I'm just biased, but I think it's more common that like people will fall in love with the filmmaking part of it, the on site part. That's where all the cool gadgets come in. If you have like celebrities, right, like there's a certain amount of like prestige that goes with that there's more visibility than the editor. And it'd be interesting to hear what about it drew you in because I feel like it's a more rare breed that people might not realize that there are people out there that really do like being behind the computer. You know, I just everything that comes with that.
speaker-0: What drew me to editing was probably just like, I'm a person who loves doing puzzles. Like I love, like on my table right now is actually a puzzle. And like, I did saw a puzzle, yes. ⁓ I also love board games, which you know, gotta drop that one in there. I feel like when I started editing, it felt like a puzzle that the pieces weren't created. Not only was I figuring out the puzzle, but I was like creating the pieces of the puzzle, kind of like, yes.
speaker-1: Like, jigsaw puzzle. Check, yeah.
speaker-0: there's footage and things that are the puzzle pieces, but I'm trimming them down to create a puzzle piece kind of thing to then create this like end product. And so I feel like being a person who just really likes to solve something and create something out of something that doesn't quite seem like it could be something or piecing together aspect really always like intrigued me. And then I realized pretty quickly that I'm someone who doesn't get bothered by like watching the same thing over and over.
speaker-1: Yeah
speaker-0: Which I felt like is a super important quality as like an editor. Like I would be editing sometimes without headphones and like, you you just hear that same like thing over and over and like whoever would be in the room, like my sister or something, be like, stop, please stop. And I'm like, I have to watch this and make sure the cut is right. But it didn't bother me. Like I loved just sitting in it for, you know, however long it needed to be to sort that out. I don't know what type of person that is. Maybe. shouldn't put a label on it, but I know that I'm that type of person that I like to like spend the time to figure out how to make something out of it and to like, you know, refine something. As far as the other aspects for like things that like I didn't like for like the pre and production side of it, I think there's parts of it that still do attract me to it. But I think by nature, I still am a like, I'm a cave person. Like I like to like, I'm like a very introverted. I'm like, I like to, you know, be in my little bubble, but I'm mostly that person where I feel like people who are within production are a little bit more outgoing and like kind of like just like to be in in the mix of things and I'm a much more like sedentary person. Like I'm not the person that needs to be running around all day and doing all these things. Like I'm a person who like send me down with the puzzle and I'll sit with it for you know hours kind of thing versus like I want to go and get this and that and this and that that kind of thing. I think I also I struggle with ⁓ giving direction and like having a vision, I guess, kind of thing. Like I feel like I'm the person who's like, give me your vision and I can help refine it versus I have this vision. Like I tend to feel like I fall in that category. So I think that's another reason why I like editing because it's like a lot of that is done and now I can help create something out of that.
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's like the difference between being the one who's like planting the seed versus the one who's watering the seed, right? Like, I struggle with the same thing. I remember, like, I applied to the film school at SC, I didn't get into the film school, but I went to the like, the general school part of what I think really, I just didn't put in the effort. And like, just felt very counter characteristic was like, you know, you had to write like submit like a creative essay, essentially, that was like, I think it was supposed to kind of be like a short story that you could adapt into film or something like that. And I just like phoned it in so hard. I struggle like you with being like the originator of the concept and thriving more into like, ⁓ I see what you're doing there. What if also this or what if we think of that but like having that initial idea and also to your point of like the extrovert kind of introvert or like, know, someone that wants to be out there doing the thing versus somebody who wants to kind of sit with it. It's just like a very symbiotic relationship because I know that there are a lot of filmmakers I've spoken to that like, you know, they're just like, it's hell sitting behind the computer looking at the same thing over and over. And I think that's where you and I are like, but that's where we come alive. We look at this internally in our culture too, I feel like is find people who are passionate about like the one thing. And then, you know, we can fill in each other's gaps or on weaknesses or however you want to look at it. But I remember one of the phrases is like, a well rounded team of sharp individuals, right? So each person is like in a nor narrow field or narrow contribution. But, you know, they're the best and they're interested in that. And then collectively, you put that together and then you get, you know, it's like, another common phrase, like the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. If you've heard that. So yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a lot of that in there. And then yeah, to your point about like, somebody else being in the room, listening while you're editing, like I have very vivid memory of my wife Brittany sitting in the room and being like, and it's just the same little tiny, not even a second, maybe of the song that she just keeps hearing. And she's like, Why do you need to watch that so many times? I'm like, well, I'm looking for something different each time, right? Like, I might be looking at like, where's the eyeline go? And then I'm looking at like, where's the pacing does or does it make sense from a continuity standpoint, there's just so many different little details about it. Yes, to look at while you're repeating the same little section.
speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like ⁓ as an editor too, it's like, it's not only like you're looking to refine that idea and that moment and you're watching it over and over again. But like for me too, I'm like, I'm going to try this and like spend 20 times to kind of get that moment right. And then I'm going to say, well, what about this and try another idea? And I feel like that's kind of the way like our brains fit. Like my brain is always working of like the trial and error thing. And yes, that pops up in other things of like, do I want to go to that thing or maybe I just want to stay home or maybe again, I'm a cape person, but like we kind of see a lot of branching opportunities as an editor because you have 10 different opportunities and things to open a film and it's like, I'm going to try it that way. I'm going to do it this way. And so I feel like, yeah, as the editor, we're always looking for what are the opportunities that I have with the footage provided and then what is the best one out of those things. I think that that's one of the things that I've tried to I guess get better at to make those snap decisions or those decisions quicker as an editor. think I need to like refine that skill of like, I can't sit with everything for a day. Like I have to make decisions. And so I have to figure out what are the things that are like going to make this film better and why. And like, so that I can immediately identify what those moments are. Like I would watch a speech and the brother would tell a really great story, funny about like them going to Disneyland and blah, blah, blah. That's not gonna fit into the film, but the end of that story has this concluding line or something that kind of sums up everything. And that's what I need to go for. And so like every next time I watch a film, I'm looking for that moment that's gonna like stand out amongst everything. But I do feel like that's something as an editor, I try to figure out ways to get to those like decisions quicker and like with reasoning behind them, whether it's like, I know that this isn't gonna fit in the film or I know that... This is great for interpersonal things, but it's not as impactful as like this other moment. so like option A is better than option B kind of thing.
speaker-1: You're in a really unique position now, because you are a part of the leadership team with, you know, me and a few others. So you see the business side now more clearly than you probably did when you only sat in the editor seat. So now this conundrum of needing to make decisions faster, and like more, you know, accurate to the clients and visions that it doesn't come back in revisions and cause more time, you're starting to see how that factors into the profitability of the company because particularly with like a flat rate project, right, where there is $5,000 to work on this project, and that 5000 needs to get split up between profit, overhead expenses, the wages, the taxes, my boat fund, like, you know, all the different don't care about boats, I'm just kidding. All the different things that just factor into what a budget has to cover and the editor's time on a first cut. Well, actually, the editor's time is one component, but then we even truncate that down further to time on the first cut, time on the revisions, someone else coming in for supervision. I'm preaching to the choir, but just for everyone else to understand how we look at budgets. So basically, that all results in an hour allotment that the editor is given. to operate within and you've been really instrumental in crafting the quotes and the rates and the budgets and everything that go out to clients because you do still sit in the editor seat. It's just such a valuable perspective because this is something I found is like the further removed I get from the discipline of editing, the faster I think it should go. Or I'm like, ⁓ you know, a three to five minute wedding highlight. Yeah, you could do that in like four hours. And it's like laughable, right? Where, I mean, there's tons of variables that factor into that. But that's like a pretty low, unreasonable, and reasonable bar to set. Whereas you would look at that same scope of work and say, like, that's like a good like week and a half. You know, it's just like, very, very different. So having you behind some of these numbers and whatnot, really getting that perspective is super valuable to our operations. You now are seeing both sides and we started to like, ⁓ pull the curtain back or like give more information to the team to see how their contribution on a project like really affects things in an overall way. So I don't know, I just think it's interesting that you have that perspective now.
speaker-0: think our allotments as an editor still like really scare me. ⁓ But being on the other side of it and like knowing we're not creating like these videos just to create them. For example, like, you know, the family film project that I worked on with my cousins and stuff like that took months, like a really long time versus like if that had been done like, you know, professionally and like with a budget and type like we would have had to have deadlines and strict things and like, you know, and so that's what we're working in right now. Yeah, we have to stick within these parameters of our allotments and deadlines and due dates and things like that. It's striking like a really interesting balance. Like we've had a lot of conversations about how can we make our workflow efficient enough that we're doing due diligence to the end product and like the work that we're doing, but we're also doing it in a way that fits within the budget constraints that are offered to us by the end client that they only have a certain amount of budget and that they can pay for these projects, which is understandable. And so we then have to fit that in with our time constraints and create workflows and systems that can like allow for a good product out of that kind of thing. think that's been like the big question in the big like, how do we make things efficient without losing quality?
speaker-1: Yeah, and stay creative, just putting these constraints in place that don't limit the work and ideally like enable it because I remember we were reading a book. I've mentioned it before on here hurting tigers by Todd Henry where he mentions like, you know, having constraints or limitations or like I think of it like a box right like a finite area in which to be creative is actually paradoxically like super helpful for an editor for a creative right to operate within versus the opposite being true where it's like, do whatever you want. It's like you could just sit there and accomplish anything. I least I would write just as a creative. I'm like, I need some limitations.
speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like there's a term for it. Like it's like that like option overload kind of thing where like if you're presented three options, then you can easily make a decision versus like if you're presented like 30 options, you're like kind of your brain kind of overloads. I think we try to do two things. Like I think one with like the client side in terms of like budgets, like we offer our clients different levels of like, what can you present our editors? Like, can you give them less options when it comes to sound bites? Can you give us the sound, you know, ⁓ someone might have a project where they go and get candid interviews. And typically when we go and edit that, it takes quite a while to identify the sound bites that are the best sound bites and then to then identify the sound bites that are usable. And then, you know, like it takes a lot. It's a lot for the editor to do that. And so we then have to add. the appropriate amount of time to the budget so that it accounts for that time. So then we can then go to the client and say, hey, if you narrow down the sound bites and you select like, I want to use, you know, time code, you know, one minute to two minutes from this interview and three minutes from that interview, then we can take that to the editor. The editor now has a much smaller amount of footage and sound bites to kind of go through. And then create a film and not have to spend a bunch of time I don't need this I don't need that also second guess things like that thing that we were talking about earlier it's like to an editor they'll say like this sound by a is great and send out sound by B is great and they don't have the context that the client might have of like well sound by B is like what we're talking about or ⁓ and sound by a actually mentioned someone we don't want to talk about so we've got to go with sound by you know B So the client is able to get to those sound bites and things like that a little bit quicker than maybe the editor. There's some pros to them also doing it that way. And then now when we get to the edit, we can now lower the amount of time that the editor has to work on the film because they don't have to spend the time going through all of the sound bites from raw and they go down and use these selects. And now they just have to focus on sorting those sound bites into a really good narrative, which is I think we like. really excel at here.
speaker-1: So knowing that there is this exchange of time, that's how I look at it, right? Like if you spend more time to the client, right? If you spend more time in the front, it'll save us time on the backend, which translates into cost savings. Are there any other costs that you can think of being associated where the client isn't tasking the creative team, the editors, with choosing what they feel is best? Like does the project suffer at all?
speaker-0: if the client doesn't choose what's best.
speaker-1: If the client does choose what's so they take on the task of like picking out soundbites, is there a cost to the project?
speaker-0: There can be. So for example, like I feel like sometimes we as editors, I don't know if it's a technical term, but we'll like Frankenstein things together. like reality TV does it all the time where they like really pull all sorts of stuff and make something, you know, entertaining or whatever that wasn't quite there. I mean, I don't think we go to the extreme of like reality, like TV where it's not the truth kind of thing. We are able to refine something. that is kind of like a very long-winded speech, but we're able to like get that down to like a really solid like story or sound bite or something. I think we as editors can identify that and be like, ⁓ this is a really long-winded speech, but I can get that to be a, you know, 10 second great moment. If the client isn't thinking that way, they can be like, ⁓ too much, it's too long, next kind of thing and kind of overlook something that's ⁓ like someone who's thinking in the terms of like editing and what can be done from that could miss. think secondly, there's also potential for like sometimes the clients like to in the project. A few times where people will say, ⁓ this person wasn't great on film. Like they were really nervous. You're not going to use them. But as the editor or someone coming in fresh, you have like new eyes to that thing and you see it from a different perspective and you're like the nervousness doesn't come across and they actually said something really great here. And also just having a fresh pair of eyes on something always helps kind of bring a new perspective and potential like other options and things that can come out of that.
speaker-1: Yeah, this term Frankensteining that I don't remember where exactly it came from in our nomenclature. But yeah, we very much throw that around. This idea of like stitching together, right, like different pieces that weren't related. But now they make sense in a way that conveys an endpoint that is authentic to what was being communicated, which I think is where it might deviate from reality TV is that inauthentic, you know, they're trying to portray something else sometimes. And then, yeah, I mean, I know that there are tons of times, especially when it's like ⁓ like more guerrilla style or like candid style shoots versus science super produced where they're like, those happy accidents where they're like, I didn't even know we got that like, the mic was still running. And we found some little hook that we could use to open the film with something that wasn't planned or like there were some films are like the way they move their camera at the end of the shot before they hit stop on the recording. And then we use that either reverse it or like just some transitional element where If you're over explaining or like over prescribing what the end product is going to be from like a creative director standpoint, you're likely losing a lot of the heart or like what could really end up making a big impact down the road. think that starts to tiptoe into this conversation of like generative AI. I've had some conversations lately where it's like, it could go any number of ways, but like the two big ways are that either it the bubble bursts and it pops and we're all like back to square one with where we were. Or the tools become so good that now companies are looking at like, do we hire a DP? Or do we like generate this thing? And it's now like jobs are at risk and all this sort of a thing. One of my rebuttals or thoughts to just add into the mix is like, I would imagine that you lose all potential for happy accidents of like things that you didn't think would work that would. I think especially with a lot of the candid stuff that we do, like interview based stuff where it's like, ⁓ look, they all of the guests that you interviewed spoke to this one part of the resort that like no one was expecting. And now we can spin up this whole new deliverable that like serves, you know, some other purpose for the, for the resort or whatnot. having kind of a human there to mine through all of the coal to find the diamonds, right. Arrange them in such a way. I just would imagine that would get lost with. like AI generated content.
speaker-0: There's a level of authenticity like that. That word got thrown around a lot, especially like when we were looking for music, ⁓ it's got to be authentic. What does that mean? And I feel like nowadays it kind of actually is something you can identify, like things that are authentic versus not. And, and I feel like a lot of times AI it's not authentic. It's not human made. It doesn't have that like spark of life. doesn't have like, there's a coldness to a lot of. A lot of the things I've seen from AI, voiceover, video, that kind of thing. I haven't done too much experimentation with video generation, but what I have experimented with with the voiceover stuff, there's a miss to it. For example, we just did a project with a voiceover and we got several different talents kind of thing to audition for it. And so we got to hear how 10 different people approached the same voiceover, real people. And one of them who wasn't selected as the end person, like really kind of like nailed in on a certain word where they like said it with like a little bit of like rough to it. Like I can't remember what the word was, but they said it that way. They had that human element of like, I'm going to say it like amazing, you know, like how or whatever it was. And so like the client was like, I like that. Can you ask, you know, Sarah to say it that way? I don't think we have that with AI. Like, I don't think we have like this like.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: I mean maybe, again I haven't experimented with it but yeah I feel like with humans we just we have different ways of approaching things different like you said happy accidents they were like I didn't mean like I didn't even know I was recording
speaker-1: The tools aren't there yet. I wonder that fork in the road is going to come where they're like, ⁓ they can deliver on all this stuff now. And it tricks the eye enough to not feel cold. And it tricks the ear enough to sound authentic or like organic or whatever. Right. Like I think the tools have the potential to get there, whether or not they're there in their current state is like, you know, another conversation. But I was thinking back to like the situation of like a client like overprescribing. the details to a project or not giving specific enough direction. as an editor and often as the person who needs to then translate what the client said to the editor, you might not be the one pushing the buttons at the end of it, but you're still the one taking in the information. If you could like rank, I don't know, maybe pick like three, you know, three variables ⁓ around the things that we found being helpful for an editor to know. like at the very start of a project to really nail the V1 as close to the client's vision or as close to like accomplishing the goal of the project. What would you put at the top of the list?
speaker-0: And this is like a project that has a script or doesn't have a script.
speaker-1: Yeah, let's say it's candid, unscripted.
speaker-0: First and foremost, like one of the most helpful things is having some like creative samples that the client wants to emulate. And along with that, the things that they identify as the things that they like and maybe don't like as well. Sending a video and saying like, I love the opening of this or I love the narrative of this. And so if we're trying to recreate certain aspects of it or they want to kind of get certain types of feel, I think having samples are super helpful. So that's probably number one. Maybe. ⁓ Maybe I won't rank these. I'll just kind of say this. So that's one of them. I think another really important aspect is to know who the end audience is. Yeah, knowing that, you know, this is going to go to this certain demographic, you know, like seniors or something, then we can aim to like tailor the message or the visuals to be what's most relatable to that. to that demographic or viewers or whatever. I feel like knowing the end audience is also really important. I mean, there's all the like technical things of like the due date and that kind of thing. But let's say it's based on interviews, like you said, like if there's any sort of information that was like on the shoot date, kind of like that, that nervousness ⁓ info about that person, like there's anything like that where it's like, ⁓ this person went off script and it was great. you should probably look to that first. Like that way the editor can kind of go towards that as like a a guideline of like, ⁓ yeah, I'm going to go to that interview first and then I'm going to kind of go through the other ones. Or if there's like, we interviewed 10 people, but like eight and nine, we just interviewed them because like they were there and we didn't, we didn't want to like make them feel bad. Don't include them, but like an editor would be like, I got to include everyone or something like that. like knowing, knowing like some shoot details like that, or kind of like where to start and what is like the most important information to convey from those. so like the key points to hit those types of things, I think are super helpful. If there are requirements, like we, we need to include person A and C, ⁓ ideally can we get B in there if not for runtime then. leave them out. So details like that are super important too because my perspective I'm like they filmed 10 people I need to get all 10 people in kind of thing sometimes like sometimes I'll put myself at that box but that's not like what is needed for the project kind of thing.
speaker-1: Or it would trigger like you reaching out and now there's like a slight delay in the project versus they communicate that upfront. And then now you're just like off to the races as soon as you get the media. I guess I'd summarize like inspiration pieces, right? For the first one with, with validation or like key details of why two would be the end audience who's the target demographic. And then three, was thinking like production notes or something that happened like on set, but it sounds like it's even bigger than that. Basically like legacy knowledge, think might be a higher umbrella where it's like, what would the editor not know about who's involved in this project without being in all these earlier conversations or being on set? Yeah.
speaker-0: Correct, yeah. Like an important organization needs to be mentioned in this edit and the editor has no idea and that was just casually mentioned in one moment and it's like they're not going to remember that. So you just need to like inform the people who working on it. This needs to be hit and we need to like get that in there some way, or form.
speaker-1: All so let's fast forward in the process slightly and say, you know, draft has gone out revisions, right? That's the next logical, like almost you can count on it, right? It's very few projects that they're like, perfect, wrap it up. It's always some minor tweaks, which is to be expected in creative work. So now that you've been both on the receiving end as an editor and then in the middle seat in our processes, like the internal quality control seat is like the supervisor. That's the term that we use for that position. What have you learned having sat in the editor seat that maybe has guided the way that you give revisions and then like kind of, you know, back that out to like, it'd be really helpful if clients gave revisions in these same sort of ways. Like this is really helpful when it's always, you know, included or phrased or whatever. And then this, like these sorts of revisions are like not helpful.
speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like I always try to give some sort of context to the note that I'm giving and the why. And then also I try to give a suggestion of like what I think would work best for the change that I'm asking. Like the reasoning that I'll do that is because I feel like if I got a note where it's like, this doesn't work and that was the only note and it's like, well, what do you, what do you want me to take it out? Do you want me to replace it? Do you want me like.
speaker-1: So why?
speaker-0: why isn't it working kind of thing. And so like, I feel like when I'm leaving the notes, I'll try to be like, ⁓ this shot was awkward because of this. Could we maybe take it out and extend the other shots around it? Or could we find something that matches the a-roll a little bit better? You know, something where it's like, explain, say what's not working. And then I'll say like, my idea is this. And then like, I'm totally open to... editor coming back and being like, I can't do that, but I can do this. And I think that's always like the best kind of response because like I might not know the footage and the things that they're working with. So they know best. They've been sitting in that project for days or weeks or whatever. Weeks is a long time, but they've been sitting in it way longer than I have. So they know what they can actually do. So yeah, I always try to offer an idea or suggestion just to like get the momentum going on that change, but always willing to hear what other option there is to address the initial concern. So that's how I try to phrase any changes that I ask.
speaker-1: Yeah, and I think that that could translate in varying degrees to like an end client, right? They might not have the familiarity with even how to express alternatives for how to solve the problem. And I've started to actually try to practice this a little bit in my supervision of things where I'm like, this isn't really working for this reason. And I like won't offer creative solutions to do it. Like, I'm trying the opposite, right? Like, it's kind of what you're talking about earlier, where it's like, you know, we might try different intros to see what fits best for a video. It's like, I'm trying a little different ⁓ supervision approaches with editors to see what happens. Because I just worry again about like the over prescription where they're like, okay, I had to find that. But to your point, like they could often come back and say like, well, I can't do that, but I can do this. So it's not like they'll force it through or just not do it. It's like that creativity can still come up. But I've been playing around with a little bit more vagueness. But I do agree that like the context of why something isn't working like this isn't working. because the color changed too much or this isn't working because the continuity is messed up. I definitely double down on that as an editor that why like what about it isn't working. Yeah. So one last question because I don't want to just run all of your time today because I know you have projects to get to. But I feel like there's a lot of ways that we could take this conversation. I would love to in future episodes. But for now, kind of like my parting question to you is timely based on the situation that we as a company are finding ourselves in right now, or we're starting to toy with this idea of growth. And so we're going to be in the situation where we're needing to find a new editor. And part of that chain of events that's going to happen is needing to evaluate the characteristics and the qualities that somebody in that role is going to have. And while that is like specific to our situation as a company, I think it also could apply to listeners who are just needing to find a solution to their post-production, regardless of which direction it is. It could be a B2B solution like us, it could be an in-house hire, so an actual employee, or it could be like a freelancer or a network of freelancers. But I think regardless of what their choice is, there are still these core characteristics in that person or that team that they would be looking for. So as a supervisor on our team, as we think about growing, what do you think our like must haves are for the characteristics of an editor.
speaker-0: They need to know how to edit. ⁓ Know how to operate a mouse, a smart mouse. No. There's a lot of like interpersonal skills that I think an editor should have. Like yes, technical skills and all of those things are super duper important. They need to know how like software works and you know, codecs and frame rates and those are like also very important to know. Aside from knowledge skills, I think communication is super duper important.
speaker-1: Have premiere.
speaker-0: in our field to be available, but also like to recognize like when I need to reach out. Like I said, like I'm a cave person, I like to be and I like to you know, and I get scared to like raise my hand and ask questions kind of thing. But I think it's super important because I feel like I'm going to use your analogy, but you talk about that digging a hole and like you're going to like an edit is like digging a hole. And if you dig that hole in one spot, but it was actually supposed to be, you know, 10 feet over, it's like a lot of work to go back and do that. So I feel like, especially if someone is new to things, like never be afraid to ask questions. Never be afraid to reach out and say like, this isn't working or like, I can't figure this out or whatever. A lot of times even just like typing out or asking that question of like, I can't figure this out. Like, and then I'd reach out to my supervisor and be like, I'm having trouble with this. And like, just by me typing it out. was like already getting my gears turning of like how to fix it. I would still reach out and ask kind of thing, but like, feel like even just like having that mentality of like, I don't know the answer to this and I don't know. So I need to like collaborate. So I think like having open communication in general is super important and like not thinking you have all the answers, not feeling like you know everything because no one does. We're all learning. We're all on this journey together kind of thing. Some people do have more knowledge than others. It doesn't mean they have the answers to everything kind of. So you don't have the answers. So don't be afraid to ask, have humbleness and humility around like, I don't know this and I would like help figuring it out. I think there's like also, like I said, balance of like reach out, but also know how to use Google. like, sometimes the reaching out isn't to your supervisor, but to Google, how do I do this? So like, just being willing to like. figure things out and in different ways. The willingness to learn and the willingness to like accept critique. We're critiqued all the time. Like this doesn't work, blah, blah. Like you just spent a day working on the edit and blah, blah, doesn't work. I mean, I know no one on our team is going to give that feedback of this doesn't work because they don't like the person. Like it's never a personal thing. Having a certain level of like ego that does it, like that allows for critique. because we see something this way and we do it this way and then when that person cut like you give it to the supervisor, the end client, whoever, they're going to have their own opinions and their own things that they're going to want to change. Like you said, almost like nine times out of 10, the edit will have revisions. So never feel like you have to take things personal, always be open to that back and forth. So I don't know what the name of that characteristic is, but like to just have that openness as well. I'm sure there's so many others. Like for us, I feel like a huge thing is just like... like the people that you work with, like get along. ⁓ Yeah, just like, but just a friendly attitude of just like, you know, everyone on the team, like no one is like, we're not on survivor. we're, you know, it's okay. You can, you can be friends or like have a friendly interaction. There's no like, yeah, maybe there's some like, I want to have the best edit this month. I want to get a bunch of stuff or whatever, but that doesn't mean that there's no like animosity between team members or anything like that.
speaker-1: culture fit, ⁓ you're saying like with on the team itself, not between client and team member.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think we always try to look out for the best of for our clients kind of thing. And so like, we're never, I guess, assuming anything like the worst from our clients as well assume the best in people.
speaker-1: I think those are great characteristics to look for in whoever is handling your post or even like creative projects at large. I think that all of these have a reverse lens to look through for the client. Like, you know, this is something that we look for when we're evaluating the fit of a relationship, right? It's like, if we ask a question, because we're not sure how is that going to be met? Are they going to be? meeting us with annoyance and like grievance or like expecting that we should have known that and like we're less than now that we had to reach out for clarification. Or do they show up and understand like, this person that I hired is trying to do their best job and they are seeking deeper understanding. I value that and I'm gonna maybe it takes some time out of my day to reply to an email that I thought should have been common sense. But I'm here to facilitate them doing their best work on the job that I hired them to do. You know, so I think that all of these ideas could be flipped around and say like at now editors like look for this in the clients that you are wanting to work with.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's always like a plus, I guess, when we have that more, again, I guess, humanness with clients of just like when they have correspondence, it's like more friendly and personable, but being open to ask questions, like for the client as well, being open to answer those questions. Someone who is willing to, yeah, take that of like, it's not always clear for everyone. So it might be very obvious to me, but maybe to this person who's asking that question, there's. there's some context that they don't have and that's why it's not as clear.
speaker-1: Yeah, all of your answers make a lot of sense to me from the position that we're in. But what's interesting is like, feel like there is like a big asterisk at the end of all of this. It's like, but not every relationship requires these things or like, these are not the things that are most valuable in that speaking from more post production perspective, like there are definitely solutions out there that are like completely transactional. As a client, you do not speak to the editor, you don't speak to a project manager, like it's all form based and you just send it on a portal and then you get back the thing and then you use the thing and what you said and it's just like very again transactional and we come from a very relational standpoint. We're not interested in starting engagements that function primarily transactional like there has to be a transactional nature to it. But I think one of the things that we have qualified about right fit clients for us is that it doesn't stop there. There is a relational component to do our best work and the type of projects that we get brought in that we are best at. It's like there's a certain level of passion or like personal investment that has to come from our side that I think is only enhanced by having all of the things that you just talked about in terms of the relationship with the client. Like it all just helps to enable us to do our best work for them. Well, cool. Well, I really appreciate you coming on for this. I feel like there's like tons of other topics that I would love to get into from your perspective. But at least for today, I think covered a great range. So I want to thank you so much for coming on. if anybody wants to see Raquel's handiwork, it is all over the Arceus website. So just check that out. And yeah, just really appreciate you coming on. Coming out of the cave.
speaker-0: coming out of the cave. mean, I'm still in my cave. This is my cave. but, uh, yeah, I appreciate being the Guinea pig as the first team member on this channel. whoever's up next, hope they have a great time as well and can speak a little bit more concisely than I have because I spoke in some circles, but, um, but yeah, that's fun. Thanks for having me. Thanks so much.
speaker-1: You set a high bar. Thanks for joining Raquel and I in our conversation. These days, it's so easy for the post-production process to become transactional, but Raquel reminds us that the best work comes from a relational standpoint. One of my biggest takeaways was her focus on the why behind feedback. It's not just about telling an editor that something isn't working, it's about providing the context of the problem so the editor can use their expertise to find a solution that might not have been considered. To see Raquel's editing chops in action, You can find her handy work all over the Arceus Creative website. We'll be sure to include her contact information in the show notes. If you're interested in learning how to make revision rounds as efficient as possible, be sure to check out our free FixPost framework. It's got a revisions best practices guide along with a few other resources to help you skip the chaos and get to creating meaningful and effective videos as smoothly and efficiently as possible. Lastly, don't forget to hit subscribe. This has been Let's Fix Post.
speaker-1: Yeah, and stay creative, not limit the work and ideally enable it. If you're over explaining or like over prescribing what the end product is going to be from like a creative director standpoint, you're likely losing a lot of the heart or like what could really end up making a big impact down the road.
speaker-0: I'm more also the person who's like, give me your vision and I can help refine it versus I have this vision.
speaker-1: I know that there are a lot of filmmakers I've spoken to that it's hell sitting behind the computer looking at the same thing over and over and I think that's where you and I are like, but that's where we come alive. Welcome to Let's Fix Post, a show about making post-production smoother, smarter, and more collaborative for creative teams and editors alike. Hit subscribe now so you don't miss future episodes. Today I'm chatting with Raquel Robles, a senior editor and supervisor at Arceus Creative who has been in the trenches with us since 2018. What's really valuable about Raquel's perspective is her focus on the editor's seat. She gives us a look at the unique mindset required to thrive in post-production. What I genuinely appreciate about Raquel is that she views every project not just as a task, but as a complex jigsaw puzzle that needs a specific kind of patience to solve. And after having done a few escape rooms together, I know the project is in great hands whenever she's on board. In our conversation today, Raquel and I talk about why a student mindset is the secret weapon for surviving a brutal round of revisions. Raquel explains how approaching an edit with humility allows you to treat feedback as a learning opportunity rather than a personal critique. We discussed the Frankenstein method of stitching together authentic stories and why happy accidents in the footage are things that AI just simply can't replicate. I really enjoyed our conversation and I hope that you do too. Let's get into it. Raquel, thank you for joining me on Let's Fix Post. I don't think I really have to explain the channel much to you because you've helped us develop it. I just think that there's a really unique opportunity to get our own team's perspective. Just like, you know, your experience sitting in the editor seat at a post house. I think that is a unique and valuable ⁓ perspective to keep in mind here. But before we get into that, tell the people a little bit about you and like, I don't know, kind of your journey. maybe pre-Archaus and kind of how you came into this field.
speaker-0: Yeah, for sure. Thank you, Dave, for having me on this podcast. Very honored to be part of it. there we go. I guess to give context to who I am now. So I am currently a team member with Arceus. I wear a lot of hats. I don't know if my hat has a label. It changes. Currently, I'm editing, supervising a little bit of project management, a little bit of behind the scenes type of business.
speaker-1: Check that
speaker-0: planning and stuff with you and another one of our team members, Alex, who I'm sure will be on this as well. Part of this, was not planning to be a video editor or anything like that. I had planned to be a history teacher. And in my last year of college, I worked on a family project. The idea was like a docudrama type thing. So it was a documentary of my grandparents' story of how they met. And then we as grandchildren reenacted their meeting and courtship and it was shown at like their 50th anniversary. And in that process, I was like, ⁓ I'm in the wrong field. Like I don't want to be a teacher. I want to edit. Just being in that aspect of storytelling and just creating films. Like I just really loved it. In my last year of college, I just kind of like really tried to find opportunities to figure out how to build this skill because like I previously didn't have any, like I had things in high school video projects or whatever, but like I didn't have any like formal training. So I looked for opportunities with like internships, freelance work, also just doing projects on my own as well. ⁓ cause I felt like I'm a very learn by doing person. like I can open up a textbook, I could open up a book, I could watch podcasts, but by doing the thing that I wanted to do, I was gaining the most experience and also kind of finding what part of filmmaking that I really liked. I knew I really liked editing, but I also felt like it's the end thing. like to do that, I had to also find videos and things. So I had to like either create it or find someone who had it to edit. The biggest learning aspect for me has just been doing and refining that through feedback and things like that. Working with other people who have better skills than I do too, like to become a better editor and everything like that.
speaker-1: Yeah, so really having kind of like the student mindset, right? Like you're you're there to learn you don't know everything. I think that's a good quality to have just I think that we look for that when we recruit to write like somebody who there has to be that innate skill and you have to like bring some amount of passion and talent to the table. But also especially like we'll get into like revisions later. But as you know, revisions like almost every project. right? It's pretty rare that a project wouldn't have revision. So in that comes a certain amount of humility of needing to be like, Oh, I recognize, you know, what can I learn from this situation? I kind of want to back up to like, it seemed like you alluded to in the college project, but like, what about editing in particular really drew you in? And maybe what about the other elements, maybe particularly production, right? Didn't you like maybe I'm just biased, but I think it's more common that like people will fall in love with the filmmaking part of it, the on site part. That's where all the cool gadgets come in. If you have like celebrities, right, like there's a certain amount of like prestige that goes with that there's more visibility than the editor. And it'd be interesting to hear what about it drew you in because I feel like it's a more rare breed that people might not realize that there are people out there that really do like being behind the computer. You know, I just everything that comes with that.
speaker-0: What drew me to editing was probably just like, I'm a person who loves doing puzzles. Like I love, like on my table right now is actually a puzzle. And like, I did saw a puzzle, yes. ⁓ I also love board games, which you know, gotta drop that one in there. I feel like when I started editing, it felt like a puzzle that the pieces weren't created. Not only was I figuring out the puzzle, but I was like creating the pieces of the puzzle, kind of like, yes.
speaker-1: Like, jigsaw puzzle. Check, yeah.
speaker-0: there's footage and things that are the puzzle pieces, but I'm trimming them down to create a puzzle piece kind of thing to then create this like end product. And so I feel like being a person who just really likes to solve something and create something out of something that doesn't quite seem like it could be something or piecing together aspect really always like intrigued me. And then I realized pretty quickly that I'm someone who doesn't get bothered by like watching the same thing over and over.
speaker-1: Yeah
speaker-0: Which I felt like is a super important quality as like an editor. Like I would be editing sometimes without headphones and like, you you just hear that same like thing over and over and like whoever would be in the room, like my sister or something, be like, stop, please stop. And I'm like, I have to watch this and make sure the cut is right. But it didn't bother me. Like I loved just sitting in it for, you know, however long it needed to be to sort that out. I don't know what type of person that is. Maybe. shouldn't put a label on it, but I know that I'm that type of person that I like to like spend the time to figure out how to make something out of it and to like, you know, refine something. As far as the other aspects for like things that like I didn't like for like the pre and production side of it, I think there's parts of it that still do attract me to it. But I think by nature, I still am a like, I'm a cave person. Like I like to like, I'm like a very introverted. I'm like, I like to, you know, be in my little bubble, but I'm mostly that person where I feel like people who are within production are a little bit more outgoing and like kind of like just like to be in in the mix of things and I'm a much more like sedentary person. Like I'm not the person that needs to be running around all day and doing all these things. Like I'm a person who like send me down with the puzzle and I'll sit with it for you know hours kind of thing versus like I want to go and get this and that and this and that that kind of thing. I think I also I struggle with ⁓ giving direction and like having a vision, I guess, kind of thing. Like I feel like I'm the person who's like, give me your vision and I can help refine it versus I have this vision. Like I tend to feel like I fall in that category. So I think that's another reason why I like editing because it's like a lot of that is done and now I can help create something out of that.
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's like the difference between being the one who's like planting the seed versus the one who's watering the seed, right? Like, I struggle with the same thing. I remember, like, I applied to the film school at SC, I didn't get into the film school, but I went to the like, the general school part of what I think really, I just didn't put in the effort. And like, just felt very counter characteristic was like, you know, you had to write like submit like a creative essay, essentially, that was like, I think it was supposed to kind of be like a short story that you could adapt into film or something like that. And I just like phoned it in so hard. I struggle like you with being like the originator of the concept and thriving more into like, ⁓ I see what you're doing there. What if also this or what if we think of that but like having that initial idea and also to your point of like the extrovert kind of introvert or like, know, someone that wants to be out there doing the thing versus somebody who wants to kind of sit with it. It's just like a very symbiotic relationship because I know that there are a lot of filmmakers I've spoken to that like, you know, they're just like, it's hell sitting behind the computer looking at the same thing over and over. And I think that's where you and I are like, but that's where we come alive. We look at this internally in our culture too, I feel like is find people who are passionate about like the one thing. And then, you know, we can fill in each other's gaps or on weaknesses or however you want to look at it. But I remember one of the phrases is like, a well rounded team of sharp individuals, right? So each person is like in a nor narrow field or narrow contribution. But, you know, they're the best and they're interested in that. And then collectively, you put that together and then you get, you know, it's like, another common phrase, like the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. If you've heard that. So yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a lot of that in there. And then yeah, to your point about like, somebody else being in the room, listening while you're editing, like I have very vivid memory of my wife Brittany sitting in the room and being like, and it's just the same little tiny, not even a second, maybe of the song that she just keeps hearing. And she's like, Why do you need to watch that so many times? I'm like, well, I'm looking for something different each time, right? Like, I might be looking at like, where's the eyeline go? And then I'm looking at like, where's the pacing does or does it make sense from a continuity standpoint, there's just so many different little details about it. Yes, to look at while you're repeating the same little section.
speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like ⁓ as an editor too, it's like, it's not only like you're looking to refine that idea and that moment and you're watching it over and over again. But like for me too, I'm like, I'm going to try this and like spend 20 times to kind of get that moment right. And then I'm going to say, well, what about this and try another idea? And I feel like that's kind of the way like our brains fit. Like my brain is always working of like the trial and error thing. And yes, that pops up in other things of like, do I want to go to that thing or maybe I just want to stay home or maybe again, I'm a cape person, but like we kind of see a lot of branching opportunities as an editor because you have 10 different opportunities and things to open a film and it's like, I'm going to try it that way. I'm going to do it this way. And so I feel like, yeah, as the editor, we're always looking for what are the opportunities that I have with the footage provided and then what is the best one out of those things. I think that that's one of the things that I've tried to I guess get better at to make those snap decisions or those decisions quicker as an editor. think I need to like refine that skill of like, I can't sit with everything for a day. Like I have to make decisions. And so I have to figure out what are the things that are like going to make this film better and why. And like, so that I can immediately identify what those moments are. Like I would watch a speech and the brother would tell a really great story, funny about like them going to Disneyland and blah, blah, blah. That's not gonna fit into the film, but the end of that story has this concluding line or something that kind of sums up everything. And that's what I need to go for. And so like every next time I watch a film, I'm looking for that moment that's gonna like stand out amongst everything. But I do feel like that's something as an editor, I try to figure out ways to get to those like decisions quicker and like with reasoning behind them, whether it's like, I know that this isn't gonna fit in the film or I know that... This is great for interpersonal things, but it's not as impactful as like this other moment. so like option A is better than option B kind of thing.
speaker-1: You're in a really unique position now, because you are a part of the leadership team with, you know, me and a few others. So you see the business side now more clearly than you probably did when you only sat in the editor seat. So now this conundrum of needing to make decisions faster, and like more, you know, accurate to the clients and visions that it doesn't come back in revisions and cause more time, you're starting to see how that factors into the profitability of the company because particularly with like a flat rate project, right, where there is $5,000 to work on this project, and that 5000 needs to get split up between profit, overhead expenses, the wages, the taxes, my boat fund, like, you know, all the different don't care about boats, I'm just kidding. All the different things that just factor into what a budget has to cover and the editor's time on a first cut. Well, actually, the editor's time is one component, but then we even truncate that down further to time on the first cut, time on the revisions, someone else coming in for supervision. I'm preaching to the choir, but just for everyone else to understand how we look at budgets. So basically, that all results in an hour allotment that the editor is given. to operate within and you've been really instrumental in crafting the quotes and the rates and the budgets and everything that go out to clients because you do still sit in the editor seat. It's just such a valuable perspective because this is something I found is like the further removed I get from the discipline of editing, the faster I think it should go. Or I'm like, ⁓ you know, a three to five minute wedding highlight. Yeah, you could do that in like four hours. And it's like laughable, right? Where, I mean, there's tons of variables that factor into that. But that's like a pretty low, unreasonable, and reasonable bar to set. Whereas you would look at that same scope of work and say, like, that's like a good like week and a half. You know, it's just like, very, very different. So having you behind some of these numbers and whatnot, really getting that perspective is super valuable to our operations. You now are seeing both sides and we started to like, ⁓ pull the curtain back or like give more information to the team to see how their contribution on a project like really affects things in an overall way. So I don't know, I just think it's interesting that you have that perspective now.
speaker-0: think our allotments as an editor still like really scare me. ⁓ But being on the other side of it and like knowing we're not creating like these videos just to create them. For example, like, you know, the family film project that I worked on with my cousins and stuff like that took months, like a really long time versus like if that had been done like, you know, professionally and like with a budget and type like we would have had to have deadlines and strict things and like, you know, and so that's what we're working in right now. Yeah, we have to stick within these parameters of our allotments and deadlines and due dates and things like that. It's striking like a really interesting balance. Like we've had a lot of conversations about how can we make our workflow efficient enough that we're doing due diligence to the end product and like the work that we're doing, but we're also doing it in a way that fits within the budget constraints that are offered to us by the end client that they only have a certain amount of budget and that they can pay for these projects, which is understandable. And so we then have to fit that in with our time constraints and create workflows and systems that can like allow for a good product out of that kind of thing. think that's been like the big question in the big like, how do we make things efficient without losing quality?
speaker-1: Yeah, and stay creative, just putting these constraints in place that don't limit the work and ideally like enable it because I remember we were reading a book. I've mentioned it before on here hurting tigers by Todd Henry where he mentions like, you know, having constraints or limitations or like I think of it like a box right like a finite area in which to be creative is actually paradoxically like super helpful for an editor for a creative right to operate within versus the opposite being true where it's like, do whatever you want. It's like you could just sit there and accomplish anything. I least I would write just as a creative. I'm like, I need some limitations.
speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like there's a term for it. Like it's like that like option overload kind of thing where like if you're presented three options, then you can easily make a decision versus like if you're presented like 30 options, you're like kind of your brain kind of overloads. I think we try to do two things. Like I think one with like the client side in terms of like budgets, like we offer our clients different levels of like, what can you present our editors? Like, can you give them less options when it comes to sound bites? Can you give us the sound, you know, ⁓ someone might have a project where they go and get candid interviews. And typically when we go and edit that, it takes quite a while to identify the sound bites that are the best sound bites and then to then identify the sound bites that are usable. And then, you know, like it takes a lot. It's a lot for the editor to do that. And so we then have to add. the appropriate amount of time to the budget so that it accounts for that time. So then we can then go to the client and say, hey, if you narrow down the sound bites and you select like, I want to use, you know, time code, you know, one minute to two minutes from this interview and three minutes from that interview, then we can take that to the editor. The editor now has a much smaller amount of footage and sound bites to kind of go through. And then create a film and not have to spend a bunch of time I don't need this I don't need that also second guess things like that thing that we were talking about earlier it's like to an editor they'll say like this sound by a is great and send out sound by B is great and they don't have the context that the client might have of like well sound by B is like what we're talking about or ⁓ and sound by a actually mentioned someone we don't want to talk about so we've got to go with sound by you know B So the client is able to get to those sound bites and things like that a little bit quicker than maybe the editor. There's some pros to them also doing it that way. And then now when we get to the edit, we can now lower the amount of time that the editor has to work on the film because they don't have to spend the time going through all of the sound bites from raw and they go down and use these selects. And now they just have to focus on sorting those sound bites into a really good narrative, which is I think we like. really excel at here.
speaker-1: So knowing that there is this exchange of time, that's how I look at it, right? Like if you spend more time to the client, right? If you spend more time in the front, it'll save us time on the backend, which translates into cost savings. Are there any other costs that you can think of being associated where the client isn't tasking the creative team, the editors, with choosing what they feel is best? Like does the project suffer at all?
speaker-0: if the client doesn't choose what's best.
speaker-1: If the client does choose what's so they take on the task of like picking out soundbites, is there a cost to the project?
speaker-0: There can be. So for example, like I feel like sometimes we as editors, I don't know if it's a technical term, but we'll like Frankenstein things together. like reality TV does it all the time where they like really pull all sorts of stuff and make something, you know, entertaining or whatever that wasn't quite there. I mean, I don't think we go to the extreme of like reality, like TV where it's not the truth kind of thing. We are able to refine something. that is kind of like a very long-winded speech, but we're able to like get that down to like a really solid like story or sound bite or something. I think we as editors can identify that and be like, ⁓ this is a really long-winded speech, but I can get that to be a, you know, 10 second great moment. If the client isn't thinking that way, they can be like, ⁓ too much, it's too long, next kind of thing and kind of overlook something that's ⁓ like someone who's thinking in the terms of like editing and what can be done from that could miss. think secondly, there's also potential for like sometimes the clients like to in the project. A few times where people will say, ⁓ this person wasn't great on film. Like they were really nervous. You're not going to use them. But as the editor or someone coming in fresh, you have like new eyes to that thing and you see it from a different perspective and you're like the nervousness doesn't come across and they actually said something really great here. And also just having a fresh pair of eyes on something always helps kind of bring a new perspective and potential like other options and things that can come out of that.
speaker-1: Yeah, this term Frankensteining that I don't remember where exactly it came from in our nomenclature. But yeah, we very much throw that around. This idea of like stitching together, right, like different pieces that weren't related. But now they make sense in a way that conveys an endpoint that is authentic to what was being communicated, which I think is where it might deviate from reality TV is that inauthentic, you know, they're trying to portray something else sometimes. And then, yeah, I mean, I know that there are tons of times, especially when it's like ⁓ like more guerrilla style or like candid style shoots versus science super produced where they're like, those happy accidents where they're like, I didn't even know we got that like, the mic was still running. And we found some little hook that we could use to open the film with something that wasn't planned or like there were some films are like the way they move their camera at the end of the shot before they hit stop on the recording. And then we use that either reverse it or like just some transitional element where If you're over explaining or like over prescribing what the end product is going to be from like a creative director standpoint, you're likely losing a lot of the heart or like what could really end up making a big impact down the road. think that starts to tiptoe into this conversation of like generative AI. I've had some conversations lately where it's like, it could go any number of ways, but like the two big ways are that either it the bubble bursts and it pops and we're all like back to square one with where we were. Or the tools become so good that now companies are looking at like, do we hire a DP? Or do we like generate this thing? And it's now like jobs are at risk and all this sort of a thing. One of my rebuttals or thoughts to just add into the mix is like, I would imagine that you lose all potential for happy accidents of like things that you didn't think would work that would. I think especially with a lot of the candid stuff that we do, like interview based stuff where it's like, ⁓ look, they all of the guests that you interviewed spoke to this one part of the resort that like no one was expecting. And now we can spin up this whole new deliverable that like serves, you know, some other purpose for the, for the resort or whatnot. having kind of a human there to mine through all of the coal to find the diamonds, right. Arrange them in such a way. I just would imagine that would get lost with. like AI generated content.
speaker-0: There's a level of authenticity like that. That word got thrown around a lot, especially like when we were looking for music, ⁓ it's got to be authentic. What does that mean? And I feel like nowadays it kind of actually is something you can identify, like things that are authentic versus not. And, and I feel like a lot of times AI it's not authentic. It's not human made. It doesn't have that like spark of life. doesn't have like, there's a coldness to a lot of. A lot of the things I've seen from AI, voiceover, video, that kind of thing. I haven't done too much experimentation with video generation, but what I have experimented with with the voiceover stuff, there's a miss to it. For example, we just did a project with a voiceover and we got several different talents kind of thing to audition for it. And so we got to hear how 10 different people approached the same voiceover, real people. And one of them who wasn't selected as the end person, like really kind of like nailed in on a certain word where they like said it with like a little bit of like rough to it. Like I can't remember what the word was, but they said it that way. They had that human element of like, I'm going to say it like amazing, you know, like how or whatever it was. And so like the client was like, I like that. Can you ask, you know, Sarah to say it that way? I don't think we have that with AI. Like, I don't think we have like this like.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: I mean maybe, again I haven't experimented with it but yeah I feel like with humans we just we have different ways of approaching things different like you said happy accidents they were like I didn't mean like I didn't even know I was recording
speaker-1: The tools aren't there yet. I wonder that fork in the road is going to come where they're like, ⁓ they can deliver on all this stuff now. And it tricks the eye enough to not feel cold. And it tricks the ear enough to sound authentic or like organic or whatever. Right. Like I think the tools have the potential to get there, whether or not they're there in their current state is like, you know, another conversation. But I was thinking back to like the situation of like a client like overprescribing. the details to a project or not giving specific enough direction. as an editor and often as the person who needs to then translate what the client said to the editor, you might not be the one pushing the buttons at the end of it, but you're still the one taking in the information. If you could like rank, I don't know, maybe pick like three, you know, three variables ⁓ around the things that we found being helpful for an editor to know. like at the very start of a project to really nail the V1 as close to the client's vision or as close to like accomplishing the goal of the project. What would you put at the top of the list?
speaker-0: And this is like a project that has a script or doesn't have a script.
speaker-1: Yeah, let's say it's candid, unscripted.
speaker-0: First and foremost, like one of the most helpful things is having some like creative samples that the client wants to emulate. And along with that, the things that they identify as the things that they like and maybe don't like as well. Sending a video and saying like, I love the opening of this or I love the narrative of this. And so if we're trying to recreate certain aspects of it or they want to kind of get certain types of feel, I think having samples are super helpful. So that's probably number one. Maybe. ⁓ Maybe I won't rank these. I'll just kind of say this. So that's one of them. I think another really important aspect is to know who the end audience is. Yeah, knowing that, you know, this is going to go to this certain demographic, you know, like seniors or something, then we can aim to like tailor the message or the visuals to be what's most relatable to that. to that demographic or viewers or whatever. I feel like knowing the end audience is also really important. I mean, there's all the like technical things of like the due date and that kind of thing. But let's say it's based on interviews, like you said, like if there's any sort of information that was like on the shoot date, kind of like that, that nervousness ⁓ info about that person, like there's anything like that where it's like, ⁓ this person went off script and it was great. you should probably look to that first. Like that way the editor can kind of go towards that as like a a guideline of like, ⁓ yeah, I'm going to go to that interview first and then I'm going to kind of go through the other ones. Or if there's like, we interviewed 10 people, but like eight and nine, we just interviewed them because like they were there and we didn't, we didn't want to like make them feel bad. Don't include them, but like an editor would be like, I got to include everyone or something like that. like knowing, knowing like some shoot details like that, or kind of like where to start and what is like the most important information to convey from those. so like the key points to hit those types of things, I think are super helpful. If there are requirements, like we, we need to include person A and C, ⁓ ideally can we get B in there if not for runtime then. leave them out. So details like that are super important too because my perspective I'm like they filmed 10 people I need to get all 10 people in kind of thing sometimes like sometimes I'll put myself at that box but that's not like what is needed for the project kind of thing.
speaker-1: Or it would trigger like you reaching out and now there's like a slight delay in the project versus they communicate that upfront. And then now you're just like off to the races as soon as you get the media. I guess I'd summarize like inspiration pieces, right? For the first one with, with validation or like key details of why two would be the end audience who's the target demographic. And then three, was thinking like production notes or something that happened like on set, but it sounds like it's even bigger than that. Basically like legacy knowledge, think might be a higher umbrella where it's like, what would the editor not know about who's involved in this project without being in all these earlier conversations or being on set? Yeah.
speaker-0: Correct, yeah. Like an important organization needs to be mentioned in this edit and the editor has no idea and that was just casually mentioned in one moment and it's like they're not going to remember that. So you just need to like inform the people who working on it. This needs to be hit and we need to like get that in there some way, or form.
speaker-1: All so let's fast forward in the process slightly and say, you know, draft has gone out revisions, right? That's the next logical, like almost you can count on it, right? It's very few projects that they're like, perfect, wrap it up. It's always some minor tweaks, which is to be expected in creative work. So now that you've been both on the receiving end as an editor and then in the middle seat in our processes, like the internal quality control seat is like the supervisor. That's the term that we use for that position. What have you learned having sat in the editor seat that maybe has guided the way that you give revisions and then like kind of, you know, back that out to like, it'd be really helpful if clients gave revisions in these same sort of ways. Like this is really helpful when it's always, you know, included or phrased or whatever. And then this, like these sorts of revisions are like not helpful.
speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like I always try to give some sort of context to the note that I'm giving and the why. And then also I try to give a suggestion of like what I think would work best for the change that I'm asking. Like the reasoning that I'll do that is because I feel like if I got a note where it's like, this doesn't work and that was the only note and it's like, well, what do you, what do you want me to take it out? Do you want me to replace it? Do you want me like.
speaker-1: So why?
speaker-0: why isn't it working kind of thing. And so like, I feel like when I'm leaving the notes, I'll try to be like, ⁓ this shot was awkward because of this. Could we maybe take it out and extend the other shots around it? Or could we find something that matches the a-roll a little bit better? You know, something where it's like, explain, say what's not working. And then I'll say like, my idea is this. And then like, I'm totally open to... editor coming back and being like, I can't do that, but I can do this. And I think that's always like the best kind of response because like I might not know the footage and the things that they're working with. So they know best. They've been sitting in that project for days or weeks or whatever. Weeks is a long time, but they've been sitting in it way longer than I have. So they know what they can actually do. So yeah, I always try to offer an idea or suggestion just to like get the momentum going on that change, but always willing to hear what other option there is to address the initial concern. So that's how I try to phrase any changes that I ask.
speaker-1: Yeah, and I think that that could translate in varying degrees to like an end client, right? They might not have the familiarity with even how to express alternatives for how to solve the problem. And I've started to actually try to practice this a little bit in my supervision of things where I'm like, this isn't really working for this reason. And I like won't offer creative solutions to do it. Like, I'm trying the opposite, right? Like, it's kind of what you're talking about earlier, where it's like, you know, we might try different intros to see what fits best for a video. It's like, I'm trying a little different ⁓ supervision approaches with editors to see what happens. Because I just worry again about like the over prescription where they're like, okay, I had to find that. But to your point, like they could often come back and say like, well, I can't do that, but I can do this. So it's not like they'll force it through or just not do it. It's like that creativity can still come up. But I've been playing around with a little bit more vagueness. But I do agree that like the context of why something isn't working like this isn't working. because the color changed too much or this isn't working because the continuity is messed up. I definitely double down on that as an editor that why like what about it isn't working. Yeah. So one last question because I don't want to just run all of your time today because I know you have projects to get to. But I feel like there's a lot of ways that we could take this conversation. I would love to in future episodes. But for now, kind of like my parting question to you is timely based on the situation that we as a company are finding ourselves in right now, or we're starting to toy with this idea of growth. And so we're going to be in the situation where we're needing to find a new editor. And part of that chain of events that's going to happen is needing to evaluate the characteristics and the qualities that somebody in that role is going to have. And while that is like specific to our situation as a company, I think it also could apply to listeners who are just needing to find a solution to their post-production, regardless of which direction it is. It could be a B2B solution like us, it could be an in-house hire, so an actual employee, or it could be like a freelancer or a network of freelancers. But I think regardless of what their choice is, there are still these core characteristics in that person or that team that they would be looking for. So as a supervisor on our team, as we think about growing, what do you think our like must haves are for the characteristics of an editor.
speaker-0: They need to know how to edit. ⁓ Know how to operate a mouse, a smart mouse. No. There's a lot of like interpersonal skills that I think an editor should have. Like yes, technical skills and all of those things are super duper important. They need to know how like software works and you know, codecs and frame rates and those are like also very important to know. Aside from knowledge skills, I think communication is super duper important.
speaker-1: Have premiere.
speaker-0: in our field to be available, but also like to recognize like when I need to reach out. Like I said, like I'm a cave person, I like to be and I like to you know, and I get scared to like raise my hand and ask questions kind of thing. But I think it's super important because I feel like I'm going to use your analogy, but you talk about that digging a hole and like you're going to like an edit is like digging a hole. And if you dig that hole in one spot, but it was actually supposed to be, you know, 10 feet over, it's like a lot of work to go back and do that. So I feel like, especially if someone is new to things, like never be afraid to ask questions. Never be afraid to reach out and say like, this isn't working or like, I can't figure this out or whatever. A lot of times even just like typing out or asking that question of like, I can't figure this out. Like, and then I'd reach out to my supervisor and be like, I'm having trouble with this. And like, just by me typing it out. was like already getting my gears turning of like how to fix it. I would still reach out and ask kind of thing, but like, feel like even just like having that mentality of like, I don't know the answer to this and I don't know. So I need to like collaborate. So I think like having open communication in general is super important and like not thinking you have all the answers, not feeling like you know everything because no one does. We're all learning. We're all on this journey together kind of thing. Some people do have more knowledge than others. It doesn't mean they have the answers to everything kind of. So you don't have the answers. So don't be afraid to ask, have humbleness and humility around like, I don't know this and I would like help figuring it out. I think there's like also, like I said, balance of like reach out, but also know how to use Google. like, sometimes the reaching out isn't to your supervisor, but to Google, how do I do this? So like, just being willing to like. figure things out and in different ways. The willingness to learn and the willingness to like accept critique. We're critiqued all the time. Like this doesn't work, blah, blah. Like you just spent a day working on the edit and blah, blah, doesn't work. I mean, I know no one on our team is going to give that feedback of this doesn't work because they don't like the person. Like it's never a personal thing. Having a certain level of like ego that does it, like that allows for critique. because we see something this way and we do it this way and then when that person cut like you give it to the supervisor, the end client, whoever, they're going to have their own opinions and their own things that they're going to want to change. Like you said, almost like nine times out of 10, the edit will have revisions. So never feel like you have to take things personal, always be open to that back and forth. So I don't know what the name of that characteristic is, but like to just have that openness as well. I'm sure there's so many others. Like for us, I feel like a huge thing is just like... like the people that you work with, like get along. ⁓ Yeah, just like, but just a friendly attitude of just like, you know, everyone on the team, like no one is like, we're not on survivor. we're, you know, it's okay. You can, you can be friends or like have a friendly interaction. There's no like, yeah, maybe there's some like, I want to have the best edit this month. I want to get a bunch of stuff or whatever, but that doesn't mean that there's no like animosity between team members or anything like that.
speaker-1: culture fit, ⁓ you're saying like with on the team itself, not between client and team member.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think we always try to look out for the best of for our clients kind of thing. And so like, we're never, I guess, assuming anything like the worst from our clients as well assume the best in people.
speaker-1: I think those are great characteristics to look for in whoever is handling your post or even like creative projects at large. I think that all of these have a reverse lens to look through for the client. Like, you know, this is something that we look for when we're evaluating the fit of a relationship, right? It's like, if we ask a question, because we're not sure how is that going to be met? Are they going to be? meeting us with annoyance and like grievance or like expecting that we should have known that and like we're less than now that we had to reach out for clarification. Or do they show up and understand like, this person that I hired is trying to do their best job and they are seeking deeper understanding. I value that and I'm gonna maybe it takes some time out of my day to reply to an email that I thought should have been common sense. But I'm here to facilitate them doing their best work on the job that I hired them to do. You know, so I think that all of these ideas could be flipped around and say like at now editors like look for this in the clients that you are wanting to work with.
speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's always like a plus, I guess, when we have that more, again, I guess, humanness with clients of just like when they have correspondence, it's like more friendly and personable, but being open to ask questions, like for the client as well, being open to answer those questions. Someone who is willing to, yeah, take that of like, it's not always clear for everyone. So it might be very obvious to me, but maybe to this person who's asking that question, there's. there's some context that they don't have and that's why it's not as clear.
speaker-1: Yeah, all of your answers make a lot of sense to me from the position that we're in. But what's interesting is like, feel like there is like a big asterisk at the end of all of this. It's like, but not every relationship requires these things or like, these are not the things that are most valuable in that speaking from more post production perspective, like there are definitely solutions out there that are like completely transactional. As a client, you do not speak to the editor, you don't speak to a project manager, like it's all form based and you just send it on a portal and then you get back the thing and then you use the thing and what you said and it's just like very again transactional and we come from a very relational standpoint. We're not interested in starting engagements that function primarily transactional like there has to be a transactional nature to it. But I think one of the things that we have qualified about right fit clients for us is that it doesn't stop there. There is a relational component to do our best work and the type of projects that we get brought in that we are best at. It's like there's a certain level of passion or like personal investment that has to come from our side that I think is only enhanced by having all of the things that you just talked about in terms of the relationship with the client. Like it all just helps to enable us to do our best work for them. Well, cool. Well, I really appreciate you coming on for this. I feel like there's like tons of other topics that I would love to get into from your perspective. But at least for today, I think covered a great range. So I want to thank you so much for coming on. if anybody wants to see Raquel's handiwork, it is all over the Arceus website. So just check that out. And yeah, just really appreciate you coming on. Coming out of the cave.
speaker-0: coming out of the cave. mean, I'm still in my cave. This is my cave. but, uh, yeah, I appreciate being the Guinea pig as the first team member on this channel. whoever's up next, hope they have a great time as well and can speak a little bit more concisely than I have because I spoke in some circles, but, um, but yeah, that's fun. Thanks for having me. Thanks so much.
speaker-1: You set a high bar. Thanks for joining Raquel and I in our conversation. These days, it's so easy for the post-production process to become transactional, but Raquel reminds us that the best work comes from a relational standpoint. One of my biggest takeaways was her focus on the why behind feedback. It's not just about telling an editor that something isn't working, it's about providing the context of the problem so the editor can use their expertise to find a solution that might not have been considered. To see Raquel's editing chops in action, You can find her handy work all over the Arceus Creative website. We'll be sure to include her contact information in the show notes. If you're interested in learning how to make revision rounds as efficient as possible, be sure to check out our free FixPost framework. It's got a revisions best practices guide along with a few other resources to help you skip the chaos and get to creating meaningful and effective videos as smoothly and efficiently as possible. Lastly, don't forget to hit subscribe. This has been Let's Fix Post.
