speaker-0: Was there a moment or like a mentality that you adopted to kind of break through that ceiling?
speaker-1: So we just hired a new vice president of marketing. He was the head of marketing for Lamborghini. He came with totally different industry, right? But he came with a new set of eyes.
speaker-0: There's an emotive component that you have to like pour yourself into. And if you're checking emails and you're managing this and you're doing all these other things, like you don't really have the bandwidth to pour into it.
speaker-1: You wouldn't think that would matter, but it does.
speaker-0: Welcome to Let's Fix Post, a show about making post-production smoother, smarter, and more collaborative for creative teams and editors alike. Hit subscribe now so you don't miss out on future episodes. Today I'm talking with Jeff Wilhoyt, who works on video and content marketing at Big Cedar Lodge, a resort that spans over 4,600 acres in Riddale, Missouri. With over 26 years at the resort, Jeff started out as a training manager. Who wanted to make orientation videos more entertaining for his employees? His creativity in these videos got him pulled into a full-time role in marketing and video for Big Cedar and its sister brands, including Bass Pro. Today, he's currently the marketing manager of Big Cedar Lodge and is responsible for creating and overseeing their photo and video content. What stands out about his job is the sheer scale of it. He's often shooting in the morning and turning around a video by that same afternoon. He captures everything that happens within Big Cedar, from golf and bowling to museums, restaurants, family events, and even boat rentals. His process shifts from quick, guerrilla-style timelines with 3 a.m. editing sessions to a structured, communicated system with his team. In our conversation, Jeff also shares a candid look at revisions, including one golf course video that went through 46 rounds of notes with Johnny Morris himself, the Bass Pro and Big Cedar founder. And why Jeff had to learn to take himself out of the equation completely to best serve Johnny's vision. It's a conversation that you won't want to miss. I gained a lot from our time together and I hope that you will too. Let's get into it. Thanks for joining me today, Jeff. I know you like we're just chatting out, like you have a lot of travel going on. You're always it's rare it seems like you're actually in the office. So I appreciate the fact that you're willing to spend an you know the next hour, maybe a little less with me. So thank you for being willing to hop on and chat. Yeah, and I mean it'd be helpful just to kind of get a lay of the land or you know, catch me up in terms of I know you mentioned your role has pivoted since, but I know you've been at Big Cedar for quite a while and have seen a lot of different you've overseen a lot of different parts of the role there. And so just walk me through a little bit of your history.
speaker-1: Yeah, so my parents brought me to Big Cedar Lodge right after it opened in nineteen ninety. And I remember everything about our vacation at Big Cedar. I just remember thinking, even as you know, I think it was like a freshman in high school, I just remember it's so such a magical experience. And just always wondered what it would be like to work here. fast forward to graduation day, I went to the school at the University of Missouri in Columbia. and got a degree in travel and tourism, had the cap and gown on, had no clue what I wanted to do in life, did not know what the next day was gonna hold for me. And our commencement speaker that day was Johnny Morris, the founder of Bass Pro Shops. And I walked across the stage and I got my diploma from the dean, then I shook Johnny's hand. And you know, I just I just knew somehow, some way I was gonna work for this man someday. I didn't know I would work directly with them. I thought, well, maybe, you know, work for Bass Pro or something, but I didn't know I'd be working directly with them. And it wasn't anything that I did. the Lord made it work out, but it's been amazing. so I started working at Big Cedar Lodge, which Johnny Morris and Bass Pro Shops owns in January of 2000. So it's been over 26 years at Big Cedar, and I've gotten to watch it grow. For those of you that don't know what Big Cedar is, it is 4,600 acres on Table Rock Lake, just a few miles south of Branson. And it is a massive resort. It's spread out, you know, over a huge area. And we're known for golf right now. So it when I started, we were not known for golf at all. We had one golf course, it was a nine-hole Jack Nichols design golf course, and that's it. Very small resort. And over a very short period of time, we have grown to six golf courses. And just just a few days ago, we were named Paynes Valley, our course designed by Tiger Woods, was named the number one course in the US. so and then last year we were yeah, last year we were named the number one golf resort in America by USA Today. So it's go grown Very quickly, and we've got these amazing world-class courses, but that's not all. We just have so much to do. there's so many lake activities. We have huge two huge marinas. You can rent boats, you can you can go on these incredible nature adventures where you drive an electric cart through a cave, there's a bar inside of it. We've got like 10 restaurants, there's you know, bowling go-karts. there's so many outdoor nature-based activities. It's just It's gigantic. You go to the website bigseater.com and you're like, it's like a resort. But then you every single time I tour someone, they pull in, they're like, I had no idea it was this big. It's it's massive. So yeah. So there's a lot. So with that, there's a lot of stuff to film here.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean and the concert venue, right? Like I mean you've got and and the hotels and the lodging, right?
speaker-1: David, I haven't even touched on half the activities. We'd be here, the whole podcast would be about the activities. Yes, we have a brand new Thunder Ridge Nature Arena opened two years ago with Morgan Wallen on Memorial Day weekend. it seats 18,000 people. Johnny built it to be the best, most beautiful outdoor amphitheater in the world. And it is absolutely stunningly beautiful. it just has these incredible sunset views overlooking Table Rock Lake. And yeah, we've even last year we hosted the Rolling Stones. That's right. I remember that. Little Ridgedale, Missouri. so it's it's amazing.
speaker-0: That's incredible. And I mean the fact that you've gotten to witness all of that too in your tenure. Like instead of like you kinda walked in and this was already set up, like like you said, you weren't even known for golf at the beginning. And now that's like kind of like one pin in the board as far as all the different things that are covered. This is incredible. So when you got brought on initially out of college, what what role did you start doing? And then like, you know, I don't know What were the big like career beats compared to you know, where you are today?
speaker-1: Originally when I started, they wanted me to be the training manager. That's what I was brought on to do. They had not had a training manager before. So I did all the new higher orientations and group training for housekeeping and all the different areas of the resort. And so I I, you know, first thing I wanted to do is turn to what what are some like off the shelf videos? First thing I wanted to do is make orientation fun. So normally you go to an orientation, it is not a fun experience. It's one of your worst days. It's boring. You're filling out all the new higher paperwork. And I wanted to make that a fun experience. And so one of the ways I wanted to make it fun was with videos. So there are a certain number of things you have to do in a new hire orientation, especially safety-wise, to train folks on, especially their first day. And You know, I looked at these training videos back then. It was on VHS tape. Yes, DVD was not even invented yet. so you know that yes, Marriott would sell these VHS tapes, they were $800 for a 15-minute training on bloodborne pathogens. And let me tell you, they were the most boring videos ever. I did that for about a year. We bought some of these. Videos on safety. And I'm like, you know what? I think I was always interested in video in college and in high school. very interested in video and made a lot of videos. And so I'm like, you know what? Purchase, buy, buy the equipment for me and let's make our own train training videos and let's make it fun. Let's make it so fun that people actually want to come to the training to see what kind of video this is. And so That's what we did. And they bought all the editing equipment. They bought all the cameras for me. And I just figured it out. And I made so many funny videos that people would come up to me afterwards and they're like, Okay, that was the best, that was the best safety training thing I've ever had. So it just started from there and more and more people got the word out, and I just started making training videos that way.
speaker-0: So do any of them exist today? Can you find one still Jeff? I doubt it. Not that you're willing to share.
speaker-1: Okay. That's right. Yeah, but they were really fun. And so that went great. And then they started seeing my creativity side. So they moved me into marketing. And I started making marketing videos for Big Cedar and and then drones were invented and you know, started flying drones around. It's such a it's like the perfect place for drone videos, especially for the golf courses. And so started making lots of marketing videos. and then they started seeing those and then Johnny saw a few and then he's like, Let's make more of these and and then it just turned into full time making videos.
speaker-0: That's awesome. Man, I mean, especially if it was like a passing interest of yours. Like I that's really interesting to hear that you went to school for you said like hotel and
speaker-1: Travel and tourism. Travel and tourism. Not video. Yeah, so we hi it was getting so busy and you had you know, especially with social media videos, you gotta turn those things so quickly. And I was filming something till ten o'clock at night and just putting my camera on my desk, going home, going to bed, and then the next morning waking up and then they're like, Okay, go film this over here. All this footage still lies on the memory card, right? I couldn't even edit it because it was still on Yes. And so I think that's about the time I I contacted you and Archaeus Creative and you guys helped us out on some videos, which I was very appreciative because we needed somebody just to edit. I I looked forever like, is there a company that just edits for you? Because that's what takes so much time. I'm out busy shooting, and so that helped greatly. And then we hired someone to take my place kind of and And that has been a huge load off. And so he is such a fast editor, and that really helps. And so now it's kind of more directing. So he'll go film something, he'll edit the video and do a a first draft, and I'll watch it and then I'll I'll just make notes and say, okay, what if we move this scene and I think we've got a better scene. About four years ago, I filmed this, and I think that's on a hard drive somewhere in the cabinet. And let's use that scene. Yeah, it helps I have that history. and then knowing big cedar frontwards and backwards, you know, for twenty six years I know kind of what to film and and where to be, but I I'm not actually out there doing it right now.
speaker-0: That's gotta be a huge relief. I mean, like as much as you fall in love with the craft, it's like I knew very early on, I was like, this production's not for me. Like I I'm much r r I'm much better at sitting and tinkering and like thinking about it than like being there on set. But I mean like for the people that love it, I one thing I have heard a lot is like I love doing it, but like it's all the things around pressing record. Right, like the travel and then being away from your family or being in different time zones and then like I don't know, different personalities on set. Just there's a lot of logistics that get, you know, that go along with the territory of filming. So I could understand that in your situation, it's like, you know, you could hop in if you needed to, I'm sure. I mean, but to have that kind of like a fallback with somebody else on your team that's like, you know, maybe younger in their career and like isn't is more excited to be on site, I could see that being a relief.
speaker-1: And he's better than me though. So I'm I'm happy, I'm happy to admit that he is way better than me and way faster. So a lot of our stuff in the turntime, you know, it's like same day. It's like you shoot it in the morning and we need it edited and up, you know, in the afternoon. So he's he's so much better on the turn time.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean you've gotta I would imagine if in a more senior role or you know, marketing manager, you're dealing with probably a lot more outside of just one specific video. But especially with editing, and you know this firsthand, it's like you kind of gotta like shut everything else out that just lock in to get the edit done. I think especially for hospitality, that would be important, I would imagine, and maybe you could push back or validate this, where it's like you're trying to evoke a feeling. And you're trying to give this demonstration of like this is what it's like to be here versus like we're just, you know, an instructional video or something that you're just checking boxes on. It's like there's an emotive component that you have to like pour yourself into. And if you're checking emails and you're managing this and you're doing all these other things, like you don't really have the bandwidth to pour into it. Is that what you found too?
speaker-1: Yes, it is. And I will say we are so we just hired a new vice president of marketing, and he came for he was the head of marketing for Lamborghini. And and then before that yes, definitely different industry, and so he came with which was great, totally different industry, right? But he came with a new set of eyes, and so that was awesome. He's like and he's from France. And he's like, Why how come all your pictures no there's nobody in in the in the pictures? It's just empty buildings. We show a restaurant and it's just the the restaurant's empty. We show the rooms and it's it's empty. And I'm like, Well, I I don't know. I never thought of it. He goes, You've got to show people in it to to create the so they can picture themselves in those pictures. So we're going back through. And we're reshooting a lot of things and taking a lot of updating a lot of pictures and putting people before we had this direction of don't show any p people. Now it's like, no, we want people in the in the shots. So we're going back through and and and changing that. But it just shows you that, you know, we before we'd always hired people in the hospitality industry. And so this is like a new set of eyes. It's still Kind of hospitality when someone purchased a a new Lamborghini, you know, it was they they definitely rolled out the red cart, but it's not like a typical go in a go in a a dealership and and buy a buy a car, right? So but he has lots of great ideas. Yeah, he has lots of great ideas. And then we are building a new boat delivery center for Bass Pro Shops in Springfield. And So, Johnny, we've toured lots of car manufacturers. We went to Porsche. We went to Tesla out in California to see how they deliver that hospitality experience when you purchase a brand new vehicle and you pick it up like at the factory or at the experience center. What does that look like and how do they show hospitality? And so we learned a lot of great things at Porsche and Tesla and from Lamborghini of how when you pick up your new car. How they roll out the red carpet. And we're going to try to do similar things for when you buy a new boat from us. So Bass Pro Shops, maybe you're not aware, but that is the largest boat company in the world. It's crazy. We sell them in like 46 countries, so they have everything from tracker, nitro, regency pontoons, all the way up to Hatteras yachts. So Everything in between Tahoe, everything from fishing boats to to massive yachts. So you're gonna whenever you order one, you're gonna be able to check a little box that says, I want to pick it up at Big Cedar or I want to pick it up at Bass Pro Shops. And so we're gonna try to roll out that experience to some folks. So that's why this you know, getting people from other industries has helped.
speaker-0: Absolutely. Yeah. I was gonna say that like getting that outside perspective versus like the echo chamber, right? And I think it helps break that sort of like we've always done it this way mentality or like this is the industry standard or this is how it's done. so like that's great that he, you know, offered this pushback of like how come there aren't people in the shots? And then for you you and your team to have the humility to be like, I don't know, let's go get some if that's gonna help, you know? Yeah versus like No, like this is you don't know hospitality. So like yeah, I think that open mindedness is gonna serve you well, in adopting the boat the boat experience. So I'd like to kind pivot a little bit here and and think about kind of some of the flow of how video is produced at at a hospitality organization or with a a a team of hospitality professionals. So I think just going back again to what you mentioned, like you know, the lasting impression that going on site left on you as, you know, you said like a freshman or whatnot when you were younger or the first time you went, and then you know, carrying that through all the way to where this was your career, like an impression was formed for sure, on you when you went on site. And then you mentioned that bringing guests for the first time, they're like, wow, I had like no idea this is how it was. Do you feel like that is a common challenge that's presented when you're producing video is to capture in such a way that like gives the viewer enough of a preview of what their experience is going to be while still leaving some of that novelty of like when they actually arrive on site.
speaker-1: Right. So you want to leave a little bit of that sense of discovery of when they get here. but you kind of want to whet their appetite. And it is challenging at this resort because of the size and scope. like I said earlier, you go to our website, you're like, you have no idea how big it is. It's just it's so hard to show that in a in a like a short social media video. and so you kind of try to show all the different things that that is possible when you when you arrive here and all the activities that you can do. because it is overwhelming and it is kind of challenging to navigate on the website to show all the different activities that you can do, you know, because there's not a lot of places you can golf in the morning, be on the lake in the afternoon, go to a a world-class Smithsonian level museum at night and then have dinner overlooking the lake and a cannon firing from the civil war and bagpipes. And it's just there's just it's overwhelming how many things. You know, a lot of places if you went to a regular hotel, you'd be like, well, you could go to dinner at night. That's that's about it. It's maybe the pool. The pool offs. Yeah. So there's so many things to do. So yes, it is definitely challenging to show all of the different things, but still leave some some room for discovery of how families can can enjoy it or couples
speaker-0: Maybe.
speaker-1: that's the other thing is you know, you're to there's you have different audiences. You have you have young couples, maybe it's their honeymoon, you have families. We opened in 1988. We have lots of people that came as a kid, like I did, and they're bringing their families here now. And they're growing up at Big Cedar. There's just a lot of different age groups and and age brackets that come to Big Cedar. It's not just simply like a golf resort. You know, there's some resorts that that's all the option is is to golf. that and that is definitely not the case here.
speaker-0: You know, you have this opportunity with like legacy customers, w guests, right? Like legacy guests. Like you said, like they came when it first opened. I guess me and Big Cedar are the same age 'cause I was born at eighty eight. And then so their fortieth is coming up, but so you know, they've they've experienced it throughout their life and and how that perception changes and how you can kinda, you know, lean into like the nostalgia factor, right? Yeah.
speaker-1: And then you bring in this nature aspect of the resort and then the connection with Bass Pro Shops. You know, Johnny Morris is considered the greatest conservationist since Teddy Roosevelt. So we're an Audubon rated resort, which is I think we're one of the only resort, and I we're I we are definitely the only resort that all six golf courses are Audubon Gold certified. So we definitely take care of the environment and the whole everything about the resort is nature based. so that plays a lot in the video. We want to show we want to show that stuff off in our video. So you'll see a lot of wildlife and stuff. You're not gonna see cars, you're not gonna see parking lots, concrete. we we focus mainly on the nature part of the resort.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's huge. I think I didn't realize that about the Audubon classification, but that or the certifications, that's amazing. so knowing I mean like so the nature element is like one lens that you're trying to, you know, focus on while telling the stories. Kind of getting in the weeds a little bit in production, right? It'll be especially helpful knowing that you have dynamics experiences working with editors other than yourself, right, being the one to shoot and edit. You've worked with Chris, you've worked with us, I'm sure there have been other folks along the way who've collaborated. What what would you say is one of the main challenges that that comes to bear when you're trying to translate the intention of what the video is supposed to be from the production then to post production?
speaker-1: I think it's just timelines, you know, it's if if we had a month to shoot a video, that'd be great. But we have, you know, hours. So and then we gotta move on to the next one. So I think it's timeline is is the biggest thing for us. We've gotta just move on to the to the next one.
speaker-0: Timeline really lights that fire, but if something were to break down or, you know, there's a something that isn't quite working, do you feel like it's mu mainly a communication piece or like a planning piece, or is there some other element that maybe maybe the technology or something or the system, something that might cause friction, or that you've found it has been really helpful to making sure that that doesn't happen?
speaker-1: Before I transition to this, I would make a video and they and I would like spend the night here, like work till 3 a.m. on a video, you know, and then they get it the next day and they're like, this is great. Yeah, we probably will post this in a couple of weeks, you know. So I if I would have known that. So having that communication of from the social team or who wherever the video is going, maybe it's going to the website, maybe it's going to social, but or maybe it's just gonna live on YouTube. so having that communication, that clear communication, okay, we're gonna post it at this time. We need the video done. At this time, it needs to be a 15 second video. We need it vertical, having all those steps down of the communication of of where the video is gonna live is very, very helpful. because maybe the timeline's not that important. So
speaker-0: Since spending the night there doing it, have there have you been able to roll out systems that do get everybody aligned on like timeline expectations and needs?
speaker-1: Yes. yeah, our social team now, you know, gives us clear guidelines like this is what we need, and then we go shoot it. sometimes, sometimes we'll go shoot it. like Chris this morning went out and got so wildlife you know, in in just putting it in the in the can and for when we do a post about conservation. and so sometimes we'll do it that way, but most of the time the social team or the the marketing director will say we need a video that does this maybe it's to sell rooms maybe we are needing to sell rooms we're not needing to sell golf so we don't need to post about golf but so we need but what we do need is when the golfers are here we need to drive them into activities our golf is filled up luckily we're very blessed to have you know, it it's very difficult to get a tea time here because we're it's it's become it's beginning to be so popular. And so, but those same people that are golfing, they need to know what to do after they golf. So maybe it's a buddy's trip and it's a bunch of guys and they don't know about Harry's, our incredible bourbon bar, and they don't know that we've got the best and most bourbon in the whole entire Midwest of the US.
speaker-0: Don't tell Kentucky.
speaker-1: That's right. so they need to know about these things and how to get those word the word out about all the things you can do around the resort.
speaker-0: So it sounds like you've worked out a system at least or communication between you and the social team, you know, who I guess maybe they're kind of like the end user. Maybe not the end user, but they're the distributor, right? The end user, I guess, would be like the get the prospective guests or people viewing the content. But they're the distributing partner being the social arm. And now you have communication over both timeline and then like the requirements for the video, like what the goal is. Are there any other I know I'm kinda like digging into your systems, but that's kinda like my thing. It's like understanding like Is it like a one sheet that that has everything lined, you know, with blanks that you fill out so you know that you've covered everything? Or is it more like a conversational tone, or is it like a meeting that you go down each one? Like how what are the mechanisms of how that information is transferred? Because I feel like that's a big gap that exists a lot of times. Is like the distributor needs it a certain way, and what do you know? It's due yesterday, and then the production team is like playing catch up. Just stressing and then it's like if those don't align, then like you've lost even more time and you've burned out your team and like I you know, the risks are real. So I'm just curious, like how does that take shape for you?
speaker-1: So it is a meeting and we sit down and look at the calendar and our social team usually tries to do it a month in advance of what we're putting out. Now, there's definitely gonna be times like we didn't know last week that we were gonna be named the number one golf Pain's Valley won the number one golf resort or golf course in North America. So we didn't know we were gonna win that and that came out. So then it's like all hands on deck. Let's put together a you know a video about that. so there are those types of things that happen, but we definitely now try to plan it a month in advance with our social team of what we're what we're putting out. And then when when we're not putting out those social videos, then we're working on getting content around the resort that we can use for television commercials because we do advertise on TV. we just we had a commercial on the masters just a few weeks ago.
speaker-0: Did you end up producing the video for the Pain's Valley Award that was received? Yes. Or is that still in the works? okay. Yeah, yeah. If you can send that to me, I'd love to link it just to I want to showcase the work that y'all are doing over there too. So it'd be great. That's a very nice pointed one. Okay, so that's helpful to know that it's, you know, a collaborative cross team like meeting that ends up happening and it's like, yeah, the best laid plans are a month out, but what do you know like the news happens, right? And you need to be able to react and be nimble around those sorts of things. So so I'm curious, like, what about taking this to scale, right? Like I know that you've mentioned needing to create a lot of content. Like it sounds like it's pretty run and gun between like, okay, that one's done in the can, gotta move on to the next one. So there's this I would imagine that there's this pressure, this need to make sure that everything that you're creating in such quick succession lines up holistically from like a brand perspective. So what like what tools or resources do you have to make sure that like you know, an edit between you or an edit between Chris or any other vendor or anybody else using the footage looks and feels like big cedar and you're not creating a bunch of content that it's like, what brand is this? Like yeah, we've got all kinds of stuff, but it doesn't feel like any one through line in terms of style.
speaker-1: I don't think I touched on this, but we manage more than one brand. so we we have no we have some other properties. So we have big Cypress Lodge, which is in the pyramid in Memphis. So it's in the sixth largest pyramid in the world in Memphis, Tennessee. And there is a hotel inside the pyramid, and you can stay inside of a Bass Pro Shops and you could wake up in the store.
speaker-0: That
speaker-1: And it is I forgot how many million square feet it is insides, but it is a massive, massive pyramid. so that that looks different than Big Cedar. That's called Big Cypress Lodge, and that looks different than Big Cedar. So that's a dip that's one style. Then we have an 1830s mill that has been restored about 40 minutes from here, and it is it's kind of like what Chip and Joanna did with the silos. There's there's a you know, there's an old restored mill that underneath it, there's a speakeasy that's in tunnels under underground with an amazing bar. There is a chapel you can get married. There's a working farm operation, and the the the food, the food that's raised on the farm goes into the food in the mill. There is a coffee shop. So it's like a huge complex. That is a completely different vibe. and and different coloring grading even on the videos. yeah. So we have we do have brand style guides. Okay. and this is the font we need to use, this is the coloring. this is kind of how it needs to look. I'll kind of look at the the big cedar ones especially and just even down to the music, like we we don't you know we wouldn't use like rock music, it's more acoustic, nature-y.
speaker-0: no way.
speaker-1: bird sounds, you know, things like that. we wouldn't use certain things and and we wouldn't show certain things. I'm always looking at what's in the background. Every video I look at, it's like, what's in the background? And a lot of people are just like worried about what's like right in front, but I'm always like, is there a truck parked in the background or or what's in the background? So it's needs to be more nature based things. so yes, there's definitely different style guides for the different brands.
speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like my dad is that way. Like every time we watch a movie, he's like, Did you notice the painting that was on the wall when they were in the house? And I'm like, No, I was watching the lady crying in the foreground. He's like Yeah And he's always like disappointed in me. He's like, You didn't notice it was a Monet? And I'm like, I'm sorry, dad, I'm a big disappointment, I know. Yeah.
speaker-1: So we're we're big on attention to detail. so which which leads into you know, we make a lot of versions of the video. We we have to go back and we're everything like to this even right before I walked in to do this, we made a video on our landscaping team. And we did an interview with our head landscaper, and then we had you know, you can't even believe the amount of flowers that we have at Big Cedar, and one of the One of the shots in this video, it pans across and there is this beautiful flower. I don't know the name of the flower, but it's some purple flower. And one of the petals is broken. It's got like a hole in it. And so we had to, you know, we had to wipe that shot from well, yes, yes. So we tried that.
speaker-0: Generative Phil. Wow. Well, I mean, if it's a video about landscaping, I could see how they would be like critical of their own work, right? Wow, but talk about yeah, like you're saying attention to detail. It's like one shot, one flower, one petal, one hole in the petal. It's like
speaker-1: Yeah, and I know. And that goes back to our founder, Johnny Morris. He his eye for detail is it's legendary. Like it is off the charts. the door handles every single thing at Big Cedar is custom made. So we have our own fabrication shop that makes all this stuff.
speaker-0: wow. I did not realize that. That's amazing to see that the that his you know that strength of like attention. It reminds me of like Disneyland, right? Where like everything is just so like you don't see the trash getting taken out. I forget what exactly it is, but like there's so meticulous about it. And to see that that successfully translates like up and down the organization into and you're living it, right? Like into the video department and making sure that all the content that you're putting out, like
speaker-1: yes, every
speaker-0: That's again, it's like it feels on brand, even if it is like big cedar versus big cypress versus the mill, it's like that all still falls under this quality standard.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean that that a lot of people call him the Walt Disney of the outdoors and that's where he gets the name. He's just atten cr he's just very atten attention to detail.
speaker-0: I guess that's a great segue too, 'cause one of the other things we were chatting ab about before the call was like the revision process, right? And this idea of like revision cycles, how there's a point of like revision fatigue that can come up. you know, this this idea of like what even calling back earlier to our conversation where it's like, you spent the night working on a project that like still well, I guess you didn't say that it didn't work out, but like the timing right wasn't quite there. So I just I'm curious like what comes to mind when you hear revisions or like how maybe maybe how does that take shape at Big Cedar? Because I assume you've got a stake in it, social has a stake in it, sounds like the department itself might have a stake in it.
speaker-1: Yeah, we talked about Johnny's legendary attention to details. When we opened the new golf course, opened the fourth of July last year. It's called Cliffhangers. And all these other five courses have these, you know, famous des golf designers. and then the sixth one Johnny designed himself. And so when we rolled it out, we had 7.2 billion media impressions. and a lot of it is fo it's so unique. It's just so there's nothing else in the world. Like one of the holes is inside of a cave. and there's a waterfall in front of you. You hit through the waterfall to get to the hole. So he designed it, right? And so we wanted to roll it out with a commercial on a PGA tour event, and we wanted to unveil it, right? So I edited I was editing the video. And making the video. And he literally sat with me and he would say, you know, then I would or if he wasn't there, I would text him the next version of it, and then he would say, Move this, move that. no, we need this shot. And so I mean, I think the one that finally aired, it was it was version 46, is the one that finally aired. So Wow, you know. And it's a it was a thirty second commercial. So you know, a lot of revisions for thirty seconds.
speaker-0: And how how how did how did you live that like as the main creative behind it? Like were you kind of going into it being like, only 46? Or did you come out of it thinking like wow, that was a lot? And how did you handle that along the way?
speaker-1: If it was early in my career in the first twenties, in the first couple of years of the twenty six, I would have been like, Wow, that is forty six. I've never heard of anything like that. But now it's like no, it it didn't phase me one bit. I knew it would, you know, he'd have a lot of changes. but the the good thing is looking at the first version versus forty six, it's forty six is way better than the first version. It's not like well, we We had this on the first version. No, 46 was way way better. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and he being the customer, he was he was right. And he he absolutely was right. it ended up being better. And but yeah at the end of the day, you know what? It it it's not it it does not hurt my feeling. When sometimes I think when people, especially if you shoot it and you're editing it and someone says I don't like that scene. You're like hurt. You're not as the artist. Because you're an artist, right? And you're like, that was the shot I loved. And you know what? I and at the very beginning, I was like that. I I do admit I was like that. I was like, got went home and like my feelings were hurt. Like, I thought that was one of the best shots. Right. And now and now it's it it doesn't phase me one bit because I want I just want him to be happy and I want. the best product possible. And I don't care who shoots it or if I shot it great, if I didn't, I don't care. I just want it to be the best possible product. And at the end of the day, if it takes forty six tries to get it right, it it doesn't matter to me.
speaker-0: Was there a moment or like a mentality that you adopted to kind of break through that ceiling of like because I think a lot of creatives get stuck there, right? Where that's like it's super personal. It's like, like this piece is me. And if you're criticizing it, you're criticizing me. Versus like kind of, I don't know, on one hand it's like It's it's in the hospitality nature, right, to say like, well, I want the customer to be happy, you know, what they say is what's gonna be best. But on the other hand, it's also like this is a business, and so you have to kind of cut that line, I would assume, where it's like I'm making this for somebody and that's you know, it's going to serve business purposes. So if it ends up changing, it's not because my art wasn't good or whatever. It's because it needs to hit certain benchmarks to be a successful piece of content for a business. So I don't know, was there a mentality or a moment that helped you embrace that?
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I think I finally just realized you know, you're thinking too highly of yourself, Jeff. you need to take you out of the equation. And this is just to make guests want to come to Big Cedar. And however you do that is it's up to you. But you need to take yourself out of the equation. It's not this video isn't for you. Right. So yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah. And you still have that V one that you could be like that one wouldn't.
speaker-1: That's right. That's right.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. I think it's a tricky balance, but I mean like it sounds like you've navigated it well and then to be, you know, smiling on the other side of a forty six version edit, then it's like, you know, you I think you've achieved it, Jeff.
speaker-1: Well, I mean, I think y you just gotta be humble and it's like, you know, I I definitely don't know best. I mean, this guy, Johnny Morris is legendary, right? So who am I to say that V one was the one we should go with?
speaker-0: Totally. Totally. So okay, like one or two more questions for you. Okay. So that's a very specific example where Johnny, the man himself, right, is like weighing in. But what's like a typical like revision phase experience at Big Cedar? Like who are the stakeholders and like where are they usually inject like where does their input usually come from? You know, like I know that Everyone's favorite is like legal always looks at the end and they have a certain lens that they're looking at it from. But like maybe take like the landscaping example or if another one comes to mind, like what's more standard for you guys?
speaker-1: I think the more standard is Chris we we come up with okay, we need a video about landscaping and we need a couple interviews and we need to show the beauty of the resort. Go make that happen. He comes out with version one and shows it to me, and then I'll make my tweaks, and then once I make my tweaks, then we send it out to like the vice president of marketing and the marketing director and get their Thoughts on it. And and then we are able to send it out. And that's usually, it sounds like a long process. This is all happening, you know, within a couple of hours. So it's it's a very quick process, but still I I think I, you know, I look at it first just to give my spin on it. and and I know it's fairly close if I if I, you know, like it. and then yeah, usually no, it would not go to the owner. for for no, it would not go to Yeah, Johnny wouldn't be watching every video. We w we would never get anything done, right?
speaker-0: You're probably yeah. Yeah, yeah. He'd just be watching big cedar videos all day. Yeah.
speaker-1: But commercials definitely television commercials, he defin the owner, Johnny does watch those and does approve those. you know, and also the president of hospitality would watch those as well.
speaker-0: Okay. Okay. And in the so in the landscaping example, it sounded like you'd mentioned that the department, someone in the department themselves noticed you know, a flaw or like something in the shot post posting or post it going live, right? Is that a common thing or like to have alternate stakeholders aside from within the marketing channel, it sounds like?
speaker-1: Right. So if it's a video like that, I want to I would want to them to look at it to make sure it's technically correct. Like maybe we showed something, maybe food and beverage wise. I definitely send it to the vice president of food and beverage and all the the senior leadership team of food and beverage. I want to make sure, you know, they don't look at it like, wait, no, we wouldn't that must have been a mistake. We would never serve. That side dish with this entree, there must have been a mistake, you know. and so I want to make sure that it's technically correct as far as the products and everything. and then also housekeeping. If we show like the interior of a room, I would send it to the head of housekeeping. Maybe we have a maybe we have we're showing something that I don't even realize is wrong with the room because I'm not in those rooms every day. Maybe something in the cabin is off. And that share is not supposed to be there. so I would want to make sure it's all correct.
speaker-0: And some of it could be like like a trickery of editing, right? Where like if you're splicing going back to like the food and beverage, like I'm splicing shots of them sending the salad out from the first course with shots of them also preparing something from the main course and then but when you play it back, it looks like they were served in the same moment, and that's where it starts to feel weird, right? but for an editor it's just like, I was just trying to show the food being prepped.
speaker-1: Right. Yeah. And we don't we don't know. We're not food experts. Like the last week this happened. we showed you know, we we have this tour that you can go on and you go to all these different re restaurants at the resort and you get on a shuttle, you have like an appetizer here, then you have the main course here, and we were showing the appetizer looked amazing. I thought that was the main course. We were showing that as the main course. I didn't know. Yeah. So that The food and beverage team said, Yeah, this is great, but this is actually the appetizer. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah. that's great. You used a very important word, I think, like once or twice, where you said, like, are there is there anything like technically wrong with it? So what's your pro tip if you had like one way to avoid too many cooks in the kitchen, sort of a thing, where now suddenly, you know, the person that's the head of a department is kind of giving feedback that's outside their lane, where it's like, I don't like the music, or like this feels too fast, or something, right? It's like that's not what you were l doing the Curtis professional courtesy of looping them in on you wanted to know if it's factually correct. What's your pro tip to get that type of response?
speaker-1: man, that is a tough one. I don't know. I think it's You know, don't send it to unless you feel really, really good about it. I'd never send just like a rough draft of like, I don't know, we're thinking about using this music, but I don't know. I I wouldn't I wouldn't send it until I'm pretty comfortable with it. And usually, you know, they stay in their lane. Usually they're like, Yeah, we focus on food.
speaker-0: So it's like it maybe what I'm hearing is like the more polished the video looks where it's like this is done. It just needs to make sure it's like not, you know, technically incorrect. I keep going back to that. But like it so is that a solid takeaway is like the more completed and like we're ready to post this as soon as you give us the thumbs up, then that usually keeps them straying into like kind of these other avenues of feedback.
speaker-1: Yes, and and what I yes, in every little detail, even like things that you wouldn't think matter, one thing that comes to mind is the thumbnail.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Especially on like frame where you can't choose what it is or whatever.
speaker-1: We use Vimeo is what we use. And I usually text the video out. And you know, the thumbnail that comes up on your on your iPhone or whatever, if that is not like a good scene or something, and sometimes I think we might get in a hurry and we just like it, whatever it land, you know, so it'll do it automatically, the thumbnail, right? And so whatever it lands on, if it's some crazy scene, it's whatever. Well Before they even click play, they already have in their mind, this isn't gonna be good. And this has happened several times. They've not even clicked play, they're like, I don't like this. And so I know. I I think even the thumbnail matters. It's that kind of attention to detail and making sure that it is as close to polished and perfect as possible. I've found that out really early at my
speaker-0: Analytics, you're like they haven't even played it yet.
speaker-1: career here about some of the folks that watch it. You they they can't imagine what it's gonna be like with you can't say, well, we're gonna use different music or or send it without music and then say, well, we're gonna add music. They they can't they can't imagine that.
speaker-0: Or not color graded, right?
speaker-1: Right. It's like when I say that, the first message I get back is this looks horrible. This looks all flat. There's no color. I go, yeah, I know. Remember me saying
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. that's interesting.
speaker-1: Yeah, don't s I that would be my pro tip is make sure you're sending it the way you would want to view it, not add all these little asterisk and say, We're gonna color it later, we're gonna add music later.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's a great point. I think I that is lost on me. I think it's kind of this curse of knowledge for me, right? Where I'm like, Yeah, I in my mind's eye, I'm filling those gaps. Where I'm like, it's not gonna look like that, like I already know. And if I if I have to send it out for interest of time and don't mention that, then it's like, yeah, the the client could lose all confidence, right? Where it's like, what is this? And then but then I think even like inside, so we do internal revision rounds, right? Much like you and Chris. Where it's like you'll go back and forth and if he shows you something that's not color graded, I doubt you go like hang up, you know. Like that
speaker-1: That's right. You know, so yeah, to your point, it matters who you're sending it to. If you sent me something and said it needs to be color graded, I'd I'd be totally fine with it, you know. And I can imagine what it would look like, you know, saturated and looking great. but there's a lot of people that are if you're not into video and in the video world, it's and you're maybe you're a food and beverage director, you know, and you're not gonna be able to visualize what it's gonna look like.
speaker-0: Yeah, and then catering to that audience and making sure to to keep instilling the confidence that it's like, don't start out already hating it before you've pressed play. Like I love that hit that pro tip about the thumbnail because I don't know that you could change it on frame. They just fairly recently in the last year or so released like a pretty big update. We use frame IO for our revision process. And so I haven't checked if you can customize the thumbnail when you send it, but I assume Vimeo lets you at least like, you know. Because I know on the player for Vimeo you can obviously upload an image or whatever. So so you will part of your sending out process is to modify what is on the thumbnail, whether it's for every single time. Every single time. That's huge. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that gets it in the right you know, mind that gets them in the right mindset out the gate rather than, like you said, instantly just like
speaker-1: Every You w you wouldn't think that would matter, right? Like you wouldn't think that would matter. But
speaker-0: I wouldn't no.
speaker-1: I know, I know.
speaker-0: It's like a layman thing, right? Where it's like I guess when you're s I guess the closest I can think is like if I'm scrolling on YouTube and I'm like, which one of these videos about how to fix my sink am I gonna watch? I'm gonna want the one that has something in the thumbnail that looks relevant versus like, they probably just upload maybe a sink isn't the best example. But you know what I mean? Like that's probably the closest I get to those shoes. Well, great. I had one final question and then anything else you'd like to throw in before we wrap here, but what do you feel like is some of the one or two biggest like unlocks when it comes to a video team being able to successfully work within the hospitality space? Like whether that's an internal team and the systems that they need to have or an external vendor that you're bringing on and like the communication style or the the knowledge of the industry, like what are some of the key characteristics that really can make or break a video team's success specifically within hospitality?
speaker-1: I think one of the biggest things that people struggle with is they they think they know about the hours of hospitality, but they don't I don't know if you realize there is no sign that says we don't turn a sign that says closed. So it's twenty four hours a day. That there's there's no door locks on any of the doors up there. So it's it's all yeah, it's twenty four seven.
speaker-0: Legitimately.
speaker-1: Wow. Yeah, it's a resort. So it's going 247. So it's you're not having to video 247, but you know, a lot of these dinners and stuff happen at night, and then you're still gotta be here early in the morning. And so it it does the it is long hours. Hospitality is long hours because it is going all the time and it's not it's not Monday through Friday. A lot of the big things happen on the weekends for hospitality. So that's one thing. And then I would just say, you know, the biggest thing with teams working together is communication as as any industry. It really is just you gotta have great communication to to gel as a team, especially when you're you know, in in the video world and trying to capture all this content and you've you've got to have great communication.
speaker-0: Yeah, I can double down on that too. I think like some of the most convolute like we're obviously not an in house team, that's kind of like the whole point. But like some of our longest communication chains are like, you know, we are hired by well, actually let me start earlier. So it's like an editor sends it to a supervisor who sends it to, you know, the project manager who is then speaking on behalf of our team, and then our team is contracted by a post or a production company that has actually gotten, you know been accumulating the footage and they tend to have a producer, an executive producer, or someone with an opinion, I'll put it that way. And then that team, the production team is hired by an agency. And some or multiple people at that agency have opinions about the work that was created like way back here by the editor. And then the agency is then the one that speaks to the to the end client or like, you know, in our case like a resort or you know a destination or something like that. So To double down on your point about communication, it's like I I wish I could control what happens outside of like my space when it comes to like how messaging gets transferred. But like we just try to do the best we can between the editor and the production team and then hope you know and then we set it on its way and hope that the production team and agency relay or you know, connect things. So a lot can break down quick.
speaker-1: Yes, especially in your business, communication is key. I mean, I remember when when you know we used your your archaeist to help us edit. You gotta have great communication because you weren't there to film it. You're simply there to edit it. So how would you know that the fourth guy from the right in this group of people is actually the founder of the company? That's the main focus of the video. I mean, you don't know these little details, right? Unless someone like me says, hey, make sure in this scene the fourth guy from the right is the founder. So you've got to have great communication when you're sending the footage to an external place to be edited.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I mean, yeah, that makes sense. And I mean we lived it right. And I think a big thing that helps I've found is like similar to how you said that you'll do a lot of the scheduling conversation with the social team like in a conversation, right? It's a call or a meeting or something. We do a lot of that too. So a lot of like, let's just talk this out. Like I've seen other companies where it's more hands off, it's more like you upload your footage, maybe you type out one or two sentences about you want and then We put it in the black box and then something comes out. You never actually engage with the human. And I'm like, I don't know how you do that. I mean, there's companies that exist and clearly they have maybe there's a certain type of video or relationship where that works out just fine and really well. But I think it's just not our style. We'd much rather like get on a call and be, you know, kind of in that sort of like in-house give that in-house feeling of like, yeah, we're we're all people that can talk and we're all stateside. I think that that helps, right? to be able to have these conversations and and suss out some of these details ahead of time instead of like, you know, version forty six or whatever. Yeah. Exactly. Cool. Well, well thank you so much, Jeff. I don't know if there's any other points you want to bring up or anything they going on for Cedar Lodge, Big Cedar, other than the the award.
speaker-1: No. One of the other things I get into being creative director is sometimes people want to film a movie at Big Cedar. cool. Especially at Christmas. It looks like a Hallmark movie. And so they are coming in the next few weeks, Hallmark is to film a Christmas movie here. So those are Yes. So those are some of the things that I get to do as well, even though w you know, we're not having th anything to do with filming, it's just helping with locations and and those types of things. Yeah.
speaker-0: With that, like, is there an ideal place where people can get familiar with Big Cedar's work and like connect with you directly if that's your something something that you're open to?
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. big cedar dot com is the best place to learn about Big Cedar. And I'm on LinkedIn under Jeff Wilhoit and I'd love to connect with y'all.
speaker-0: Awesome. Well I'll make sure and include that link. But thank you so much for your time today, Jeff. It's always a pleasure getting
speaker-1: It was an honor to be on this podcast. This is so cool.
speaker-0: Hey, well thank you so much. I feel like we could nerd out all day on video stuff. So round two in a couple of months, we'll see. That's
speaker-1: Sounds good.
speaker-0: Thanks for joining my conversation with Jeff. My biggest takeaway was the point about taking yourself out of the equation. The idea that after 46 revisions, it's not about whether your first cut was right. It's about making sure the final product actually serves the person watching it. I know it's a bit extreme, but Jeff's experience highlights a critical point in our industry. It's easy to get precious about your own work or to take revision notes personally. But Jeff reminds us that the goal was never to be right on the first try. It's to end up with something that makes people want to walk through the door. It's so important to remember that while your instincts as a creative matter, you also need to keep the bigger picture in mind. What does the client, the founder, the viewer actually need to see in order to drive business results? If you want to see the video that took 46 revisions to get right, Check out the show notes for Big Cedar's Cliffhangers announcement, celebrating their Paynes Valley course being named the number one public golf course in the country. I've also linked another example of Jeff's handiwork with a video that overviews all of Big Cedar's beautiful courses. And if you want to follow Jeff's journey in hospitality video marketing, I've included his information in the description as well. Don't forget to hit subscribe. This has been Let's Fix Post.
speaker-1: So we just hired a new vice president of marketing. He was the head of marketing for Lamborghini. He came with totally different industry, right? But he came with a new set of eyes.
speaker-0: There's an emotive component that you have to like pour yourself into. And if you're checking emails and you're managing this and you're doing all these other things, like you don't really have the bandwidth to pour into it.
speaker-1: You wouldn't think that would matter, but it does.
speaker-0: Welcome to Let's Fix Post, a show about making post-production smoother, smarter, and more collaborative for creative teams and editors alike. Hit subscribe now so you don't miss out on future episodes. Today I'm talking with Jeff Wilhoyt, who works on video and content marketing at Big Cedar Lodge, a resort that spans over 4,600 acres in Riddale, Missouri. With over 26 years at the resort, Jeff started out as a training manager. Who wanted to make orientation videos more entertaining for his employees? His creativity in these videos got him pulled into a full-time role in marketing and video for Big Cedar and its sister brands, including Bass Pro. Today, he's currently the marketing manager of Big Cedar Lodge and is responsible for creating and overseeing their photo and video content. What stands out about his job is the sheer scale of it. He's often shooting in the morning and turning around a video by that same afternoon. He captures everything that happens within Big Cedar, from golf and bowling to museums, restaurants, family events, and even boat rentals. His process shifts from quick, guerrilla-style timelines with 3 a.m. editing sessions to a structured, communicated system with his team. In our conversation, Jeff also shares a candid look at revisions, including one golf course video that went through 46 rounds of notes with Johnny Morris himself, the Bass Pro and Big Cedar founder. And why Jeff had to learn to take himself out of the equation completely to best serve Johnny's vision. It's a conversation that you won't want to miss. I gained a lot from our time together and I hope that you will too. Let's get into it. Thanks for joining me today, Jeff. I know you like we're just chatting out, like you have a lot of travel going on. You're always it's rare it seems like you're actually in the office. So I appreciate the fact that you're willing to spend an you know the next hour, maybe a little less with me. So thank you for being willing to hop on and chat. Yeah, and I mean it'd be helpful just to kind of get a lay of the land or you know, catch me up in terms of I know you mentioned your role has pivoted since, but I know you've been at Big Cedar for quite a while and have seen a lot of different you've overseen a lot of different parts of the role there. And so just walk me through a little bit of your history.
speaker-1: Yeah, so my parents brought me to Big Cedar Lodge right after it opened in nineteen ninety. And I remember everything about our vacation at Big Cedar. I just remember thinking, even as you know, I think it was like a freshman in high school, I just remember it's so such a magical experience. And just always wondered what it would be like to work here. fast forward to graduation day, I went to the school at the University of Missouri in Columbia. and got a degree in travel and tourism, had the cap and gown on, had no clue what I wanted to do in life, did not know what the next day was gonna hold for me. And our commencement speaker that day was Johnny Morris, the founder of Bass Pro Shops. And I walked across the stage and I got my diploma from the dean, then I shook Johnny's hand. And you know, I just I just knew somehow, some way I was gonna work for this man someday. I didn't know I would work directly with them. I thought, well, maybe, you know, work for Bass Pro or something, but I didn't know I'd be working directly with them. And it wasn't anything that I did. the Lord made it work out, but it's been amazing. so I started working at Big Cedar Lodge, which Johnny Morris and Bass Pro Shops owns in January of 2000. So it's been over 26 years at Big Cedar, and I've gotten to watch it grow. For those of you that don't know what Big Cedar is, it is 4,600 acres on Table Rock Lake, just a few miles south of Branson. And it is a massive resort. It's spread out, you know, over a huge area. And we're known for golf right now. So it when I started, we were not known for golf at all. We had one golf course, it was a nine-hole Jack Nichols design golf course, and that's it. Very small resort. And over a very short period of time, we have grown to six golf courses. And just just a few days ago, we were named Paynes Valley, our course designed by Tiger Woods, was named the number one course in the US. so and then last year we were yeah, last year we were named the number one golf resort in America by USA Today. So it's go grown Very quickly, and we've got these amazing world-class courses, but that's not all. We just have so much to do. there's so many lake activities. We have huge two huge marinas. You can rent boats, you can you can go on these incredible nature adventures where you drive an electric cart through a cave, there's a bar inside of it. We've got like 10 restaurants, there's you know, bowling go-karts. there's so many outdoor nature-based activities. It's just It's gigantic. You go to the website bigseater.com and you're like, it's like a resort. But then you every single time I tour someone, they pull in, they're like, I had no idea it was this big. It's it's massive. So yeah. So there's a lot. So with that, there's a lot of stuff to film here.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean and the concert venue, right? Like I mean you've got and and the hotels and the lodging, right?
speaker-1: David, I haven't even touched on half the activities. We'd be here, the whole podcast would be about the activities. Yes, we have a brand new Thunder Ridge Nature Arena opened two years ago with Morgan Wallen on Memorial Day weekend. it seats 18,000 people. Johnny built it to be the best, most beautiful outdoor amphitheater in the world. And it is absolutely stunningly beautiful. it just has these incredible sunset views overlooking Table Rock Lake. And yeah, we've even last year we hosted the Rolling Stones. That's right. I remember that. Little Ridgedale, Missouri. so it's it's amazing.
speaker-0: That's incredible. And I mean the fact that you've gotten to witness all of that too in your tenure. Like instead of like you kinda walked in and this was already set up, like like you said, you weren't even known for golf at the beginning. And now that's like kind of like one pin in the board as far as all the different things that are covered. This is incredible. So when you got brought on initially out of college, what what role did you start doing? And then like, you know, I don't know What were the big like career beats compared to you know, where you are today?
speaker-1: Originally when I started, they wanted me to be the training manager. That's what I was brought on to do. They had not had a training manager before. So I did all the new higher orientations and group training for housekeeping and all the different areas of the resort. And so I I, you know, first thing I wanted to do is turn to what what are some like off the shelf videos? First thing I wanted to do is make orientation fun. So normally you go to an orientation, it is not a fun experience. It's one of your worst days. It's boring. You're filling out all the new higher paperwork. And I wanted to make that a fun experience. And so one of the ways I wanted to make it fun was with videos. So there are a certain number of things you have to do in a new hire orientation, especially safety-wise, to train folks on, especially their first day. And You know, I looked at these training videos back then. It was on VHS tape. Yes, DVD was not even invented yet. so you know that yes, Marriott would sell these VHS tapes, they were $800 for a 15-minute training on bloodborne pathogens. And let me tell you, they were the most boring videos ever. I did that for about a year. We bought some of these. Videos on safety. And I'm like, you know what? I think I was always interested in video in college and in high school. very interested in video and made a lot of videos. And so I'm like, you know what? Purchase, buy, buy the equipment for me and let's make our own train training videos and let's make it fun. Let's make it so fun that people actually want to come to the training to see what kind of video this is. And so That's what we did. And they bought all the editing equipment. They bought all the cameras for me. And I just figured it out. And I made so many funny videos that people would come up to me afterwards and they're like, Okay, that was the best, that was the best safety training thing I've ever had. So it just started from there and more and more people got the word out, and I just started making training videos that way.
speaker-0: So do any of them exist today? Can you find one still Jeff? I doubt it. Not that you're willing to share.
speaker-1: Okay. That's right. Yeah, but they were really fun. And so that went great. And then they started seeing my creativity side. So they moved me into marketing. And I started making marketing videos for Big Cedar and and then drones were invented and you know, started flying drones around. It's such a it's like the perfect place for drone videos, especially for the golf courses. And so started making lots of marketing videos. and then they started seeing those and then Johnny saw a few and then he's like, Let's make more of these and and then it just turned into full time making videos.
speaker-0: That's awesome. Man, I mean, especially if it was like a passing interest of yours. Like I that's really interesting to hear that you went to school for you said like hotel and
speaker-1: Travel and tourism. Travel and tourism. Not video. Yeah, so we hi it was getting so busy and you had you know, especially with social media videos, you gotta turn those things so quickly. And I was filming something till ten o'clock at night and just putting my camera on my desk, going home, going to bed, and then the next morning waking up and then they're like, Okay, go film this over here. All this footage still lies on the memory card, right? I couldn't even edit it because it was still on Yes. And so I think that's about the time I I contacted you and Archaeus Creative and you guys helped us out on some videos, which I was very appreciative because we needed somebody just to edit. I I looked forever like, is there a company that just edits for you? Because that's what takes so much time. I'm out busy shooting, and so that helped greatly. And then we hired someone to take my place kind of and And that has been a huge load off. And so he is such a fast editor, and that really helps. And so now it's kind of more directing. So he'll go film something, he'll edit the video and do a a first draft, and I'll watch it and then I'll I'll just make notes and say, okay, what if we move this scene and I think we've got a better scene. About four years ago, I filmed this, and I think that's on a hard drive somewhere in the cabinet. And let's use that scene. Yeah, it helps I have that history. and then knowing big cedar frontwards and backwards, you know, for twenty six years I know kind of what to film and and where to be, but I I'm not actually out there doing it right now.
speaker-0: That's gotta be a huge relief. I mean, like as much as you fall in love with the craft, it's like I knew very early on, I was like, this production's not for me. Like I I'm much r r I'm much better at sitting and tinkering and like thinking about it than like being there on set. But I mean like for the people that love it, I one thing I have heard a lot is like I love doing it, but like it's all the things around pressing record. Right, like the travel and then being away from your family or being in different time zones and then like I don't know, different personalities on set. Just there's a lot of logistics that get, you know, that go along with the territory of filming. So I could understand that in your situation, it's like, you know, you could hop in if you needed to, I'm sure. I mean, but to have that kind of like a fallback with somebody else on your team that's like, you know, maybe younger in their career and like isn't is more excited to be on site, I could see that being a relief.
speaker-1: And he's better than me though. So I'm I'm happy, I'm happy to admit that he is way better than me and way faster. So a lot of our stuff in the turntime, you know, it's like same day. It's like you shoot it in the morning and we need it edited and up, you know, in the afternoon. So he's he's so much better on the turn time.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean you've gotta I would imagine if in a more senior role or you know, marketing manager, you're dealing with probably a lot more outside of just one specific video. But especially with editing, and you know this firsthand, it's like you kind of gotta like shut everything else out that just lock in to get the edit done. I think especially for hospitality, that would be important, I would imagine, and maybe you could push back or validate this, where it's like you're trying to evoke a feeling. And you're trying to give this demonstration of like this is what it's like to be here versus like we're just, you know, an instructional video or something that you're just checking boxes on. It's like there's an emotive component that you have to like pour yourself into. And if you're checking emails and you're managing this and you're doing all these other things, like you don't really have the bandwidth to pour into it. Is that what you found too?
speaker-1: Yes, it is. And I will say we are so we just hired a new vice president of marketing, and he came for he was the head of marketing for Lamborghini. And and then before that yes, definitely different industry, and so he came with which was great, totally different industry, right? But he came with a new set of eyes, and so that was awesome. He's like and he's from France. And he's like, Why how come all your pictures no there's nobody in in the in the pictures? It's just empty buildings. We show a restaurant and it's just the the restaurant's empty. We show the rooms and it's it's empty. And I'm like, Well, I I don't know. I never thought of it. He goes, You've got to show people in it to to create the so they can picture themselves in those pictures. So we're going back through. And we're reshooting a lot of things and taking a lot of updating a lot of pictures and putting people before we had this direction of don't show any p people. Now it's like, no, we want people in the in the shots. So we're going back through and and and changing that. But it just shows you that, you know, we before we'd always hired people in the hospitality industry. And so this is like a new set of eyes. It's still Kind of hospitality when someone purchased a a new Lamborghini, you know, it was they they definitely rolled out the red cart, but it's not like a typical go in a go in a a dealership and and buy a buy a car, right? So but he has lots of great ideas. Yeah, he has lots of great ideas. And then we are building a new boat delivery center for Bass Pro Shops in Springfield. And So, Johnny, we've toured lots of car manufacturers. We went to Porsche. We went to Tesla out in California to see how they deliver that hospitality experience when you purchase a brand new vehicle and you pick it up like at the factory or at the experience center. What does that look like and how do they show hospitality? And so we learned a lot of great things at Porsche and Tesla and from Lamborghini of how when you pick up your new car. How they roll out the red carpet. And we're going to try to do similar things for when you buy a new boat from us. So Bass Pro Shops, maybe you're not aware, but that is the largest boat company in the world. It's crazy. We sell them in like 46 countries, so they have everything from tracker, nitro, regency pontoons, all the way up to Hatteras yachts. So Everything in between Tahoe, everything from fishing boats to to massive yachts. So you're gonna whenever you order one, you're gonna be able to check a little box that says, I want to pick it up at Big Cedar or I want to pick it up at Bass Pro Shops. And so we're gonna try to roll out that experience to some folks. So that's why this you know, getting people from other industries has helped.
speaker-0: Absolutely. Yeah. I was gonna say that like getting that outside perspective versus like the echo chamber, right? And I think it helps break that sort of like we've always done it this way mentality or like this is the industry standard or this is how it's done. so like that's great that he, you know, offered this pushback of like how come there aren't people in the shots? And then for you you and your team to have the humility to be like, I don't know, let's go get some if that's gonna help, you know? Yeah versus like No, like this is you don't know hospitality. So like yeah, I think that open mindedness is gonna serve you well, in adopting the boat the boat experience. So I'd like to kind pivot a little bit here and and think about kind of some of the flow of how video is produced at at a hospitality organization or with a a a team of hospitality professionals. So I think just going back again to what you mentioned, like you know, the lasting impression that going on site left on you as, you know, you said like a freshman or whatnot when you were younger or the first time you went, and then you know, carrying that through all the way to where this was your career, like an impression was formed for sure, on you when you went on site. And then you mentioned that bringing guests for the first time, they're like, wow, I had like no idea this is how it was. Do you feel like that is a common challenge that's presented when you're producing video is to capture in such a way that like gives the viewer enough of a preview of what their experience is going to be while still leaving some of that novelty of like when they actually arrive on site.
speaker-1: Right. So you want to leave a little bit of that sense of discovery of when they get here. but you kind of want to whet their appetite. And it is challenging at this resort because of the size and scope. like I said earlier, you go to our website, you're like, you have no idea how big it is. It's just it's so hard to show that in a in a like a short social media video. and so you kind of try to show all the different things that that is possible when you when you arrive here and all the activities that you can do. because it is overwhelming and it is kind of challenging to navigate on the website to show all the different activities that you can do, you know, because there's not a lot of places you can golf in the morning, be on the lake in the afternoon, go to a a world-class Smithsonian level museum at night and then have dinner overlooking the lake and a cannon firing from the civil war and bagpipes. And it's just there's just it's overwhelming how many things. You know, a lot of places if you went to a regular hotel, you'd be like, well, you could go to dinner at night. That's that's about it. It's maybe the pool. The pool offs. Yeah. So there's so many things to do. So yes, it is definitely challenging to show all of the different things, but still leave some some room for discovery of how families can can enjoy it or couples
speaker-0: Maybe.
speaker-1: that's the other thing is you know, you're to there's you have different audiences. You have you have young couples, maybe it's their honeymoon, you have families. We opened in 1988. We have lots of people that came as a kid, like I did, and they're bringing their families here now. And they're growing up at Big Cedar. There's just a lot of different age groups and and age brackets that come to Big Cedar. It's not just simply like a golf resort. You know, there's some resorts that that's all the option is is to golf. that and that is definitely not the case here.
speaker-0: You know, you have this opportunity with like legacy customers, w guests, right? Like legacy guests. Like you said, like they came when it first opened. I guess me and Big Cedar are the same age 'cause I was born at eighty eight. And then so their fortieth is coming up, but so you know, they've they've experienced it throughout their life and and how that perception changes and how you can kinda, you know, lean into like the nostalgia factor, right? Yeah.
speaker-1: And then you bring in this nature aspect of the resort and then the connection with Bass Pro Shops. You know, Johnny Morris is considered the greatest conservationist since Teddy Roosevelt. So we're an Audubon rated resort, which is I think we're one of the only resort, and I we're I we are definitely the only resort that all six golf courses are Audubon Gold certified. So we definitely take care of the environment and the whole everything about the resort is nature based. so that plays a lot in the video. We want to show we want to show that stuff off in our video. So you'll see a lot of wildlife and stuff. You're not gonna see cars, you're not gonna see parking lots, concrete. we we focus mainly on the nature part of the resort.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's huge. I think I didn't realize that about the Audubon classification, but that or the certifications, that's amazing. so knowing I mean like so the nature element is like one lens that you're trying to, you know, focus on while telling the stories. Kind of getting in the weeds a little bit in production, right? It'll be especially helpful knowing that you have dynamics experiences working with editors other than yourself, right, being the one to shoot and edit. You've worked with Chris, you've worked with us, I'm sure there have been other folks along the way who've collaborated. What what would you say is one of the main challenges that that comes to bear when you're trying to translate the intention of what the video is supposed to be from the production then to post production?
speaker-1: I think it's just timelines, you know, it's if if we had a month to shoot a video, that'd be great. But we have, you know, hours. So and then we gotta move on to the next one. So I think it's timeline is is the biggest thing for us. We've gotta just move on to the to the next one.
speaker-0: Timeline really lights that fire, but if something were to break down or, you know, there's a something that isn't quite working, do you feel like it's mu mainly a communication piece or like a planning piece, or is there some other element that maybe maybe the technology or something or the system, something that might cause friction, or that you've found it has been really helpful to making sure that that doesn't happen?
speaker-1: Before I transition to this, I would make a video and they and I would like spend the night here, like work till 3 a.m. on a video, you know, and then they get it the next day and they're like, this is great. Yeah, we probably will post this in a couple of weeks, you know. So I if I would have known that. So having that communication of from the social team or who wherever the video is going, maybe it's going to the website, maybe it's going to social, but or maybe it's just gonna live on YouTube. so having that communication, that clear communication, okay, we're gonna post it at this time. We need the video done. At this time, it needs to be a 15 second video. We need it vertical, having all those steps down of the communication of of where the video is gonna live is very, very helpful. because maybe the timeline's not that important. So
speaker-0: Since spending the night there doing it, have there have you been able to roll out systems that do get everybody aligned on like timeline expectations and needs?
speaker-1: Yes. yeah, our social team now, you know, gives us clear guidelines like this is what we need, and then we go shoot it. sometimes, sometimes we'll go shoot it. like Chris this morning went out and got so wildlife you know, in in just putting it in the in the can and for when we do a post about conservation. and so sometimes we'll do it that way, but most of the time the social team or the the marketing director will say we need a video that does this maybe it's to sell rooms maybe we are needing to sell rooms we're not needing to sell golf so we don't need to post about golf but so we need but what we do need is when the golfers are here we need to drive them into activities our golf is filled up luckily we're very blessed to have you know, it it's very difficult to get a tea time here because we're it's it's become it's beginning to be so popular. And so, but those same people that are golfing, they need to know what to do after they golf. So maybe it's a buddy's trip and it's a bunch of guys and they don't know about Harry's, our incredible bourbon bar, and they don't know that we've got the best and most bourbon in the whole entire Midwest of the US.
speaker-0: Don't tell Kentucky.
speaker-1: That's right. so they need to know about these things and how to get those word the word out about all the things you can do around the resort.
speaker-0: So it sounds like you've worked out a system at least or communication between you and the social team, you know, who I guess maybe they're kind of like the end user. Maybe not the end user, but they're the distributor, right? The end user, I guess, would be like the get the prospective guests or people viewing the content. But they're the distributing partner being the social arm. And now you have communication over both timeline and then like the requirements for the video, like what the goal is. Are there any other I know I'm kinda like digging into your systems, but that's kinda like my thing. It's like understanding like Is it like a one sheet that that has everything lined, you know, with blanks that you fill out so you know that you've covered everything? Or is it more like a conversational tone, or is it like a meeting that you go down each one? Like how what are the mechanisms of how that information is transferred? Because I feel like that's a big gap that exists a lot of times. Is like the distributor needs it a certain way, and what do you know? It's due yesterday, and then the production team is like playing catch up. Just stressing and then it's like if those don't align, then like you've lost even more time and you've burned out your team and like I you know, the risks are real. So I'm just curious, like how does that take shape for you?
speaker-1: So it is a meeting and we sit down and look at the calendar and our social team usually tries to do it a month in advance of what we're putting out. Now, there's definitely gonna be times like we didn't know last week that we were gonna be named the number one golf Pain's Valley won the number one golf resort or golf course in North America. So we didn't know we were gonna win that and that came out. So then it's like all hands on deck. Let's put together a you know a video about that. so there are those types of things that happen, but we definitely now try to plan it a month in advance with our social team of what we're what we're putting out. And then when when we're not putting out those social videos, then we're working on getting content around the resort that we can use for television commercials because we do advertise on TV. we just we had a commercial on the masters just a few weeks ago.
speaker-0: Did you end up producing the video for the Pain's Valley Award that was received? Yes. Or is that still in the works? okay. Yeah, yeah. If you can send that to me, I'd love to link it just to I want to showcase the work that y'all are doing over there too. So it'd be great. That's a very nice pointed one. Okay, so that's helpful to know that it's, you know, a collaborative cross team like meeting that ends up happening and it's like, yeah, the best laid plans are a month out, but what do you know like the news happens, right? And you need to be able to react and be nimble around those sorts of things. So so I'm curious, like, what about taking this to scale, right? Like I know that you've mentioned needing to create a lot of content. Like it sounds like it's pretty run and gun between like, okay, that one's done in the can, gotta move on to the next one. So there's this I would imagine that there's this pressure, this need to make sure that everything that you're creating in such quick succession lines up holistically from like a brand perspective. So what like what tools or resources do you have to make sure that like you know, an edit between you or an edit between Chris or any other vendor or anybody else using the footage looks and feels like big cedar and you're not creating a bunch of content that it's like, what brand is this? Like yeah, we've got all kinds of stuff, but it doesn't feel like any one through line in terms of style.
speaker-1: I don't think I touched on this, but we manage more than one brand. so we we have no we have some other properties. So we have big Cypress Lodge, which is in the pyramid in Memphis. So it's in the sixth largest pyramid in the world in Memphis, Tennessee. And there is a hotel inside the pyramid, and you can stay inside of a Bass Pro Shops and you could wake up in the store.
speaker-0: That
speaker-1: And it is I forgot how many million square feet it is insides, but it is a massive, massive pyramid. so that that looks different than Big Cedar. That's called Big Cypress Lodge, and that looks different than Big Cedar. So that's a dip that's one style. Then we have an 1830s mill that has been restored about 40 minutes from here, and it is it's kind of like what Chip and Joanna did with the silos. There's there's a you know, there's an old restored mill that underneath it, there's a speakeasy that's in tunnels under underground with an amazing bar. There is a chapel you can get married. There's a working farm operation, and the the the food, the food that's raised on the farm goes into the food in the mill. There is a coffee shop. So it's like a huge complex. That is a completely different vibe. and and different coloring grading even on the videos. yeah. So we have we do have brand style guides. Okay. and this is the font we need to use, this is the coloring. this is kind of how it needs to look. I'll kind of look at the the big cedar ones especially and just even down to the music, like we we don't you know we wouldn't use like rock music, it's more acoustic, nature-y.
speaker-0: no way.
speaker-1: bird sounds, you know, things like that. we wouldn't use certain things and and we wouldn't show certain things. I'm always looking at what's in the background. Every video I look at, it's like, what's in the background? And a lot of people are just like worried about what's like right in front, but I'm always like, is there a truck parked in the background or or what's in the background? So it's needs to be more nature based things. so yes, there's definitely different style guides for the different brands.
speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like my dad is that way. Like every time we watch a movie, he's like, Did you notice the painting that was on the wall when they were in the house? And I'm like, No, I was watching the lady crying in the foreground. He's like Yeah And he's always like disappointed in me. He's like, You didn't notice it was a Monet? And I'm like, I'm sorry, dad, I'm a big disappointment, I know. Yeah.
speaker-1: So we're we're big on attention to detail. so which which leads into you know, we make a lot of versions of the video. We we have to go back and we're everything like to this even right before I walked in to do this, we made a video on our landscaping team. And we did an interview with our head landscaper, and then we had you know, you can't even believe the amount of flowers that we have at Big Cedar, and one of the One of the shots in this video, it pans across and there is this beautiful flower. I don't know the name of the flower, but it's some purple flower. And one of the petals is broken. It's got like a hole in it. And so we had to, you know, we had to wipe that shot from well, yes, yes. So we tried that.
speaker-0: Generative Phil. Wow. Well, I mean, if it's a video about landscaping, I could see how they would be like critical of their own work, right? Wow, but talk about yeah, like you're saying attention to detail. It's like one shot, one flower, one petal, one hole in the petal. It's like
speaker-1: Yeah, and I know. And that goes back to our founder, Johnny Morris. He his eye for detail is it's legendary. Like it is off the charts. the door handles every single thing at Big Cedar is custom made. So we have our own fabrication shop that makes all this stuff.
speaker-0: wow. I did not realize that. That's amazing to see that the that his you know that strength of like attention. It reminds me of like Disneyland, right? Where like everything is just so like you don't see the trash getting taken out. I forget what exactly it is, but like there's so meticulous about it. And to see that that successfully translates like up and down the organization into and you're living it, right? Like into the video department and making sure that all the content that you're putting out, like
speaker-1: yes, every
speaker-0: That's again, it's like it feels on brand, even if it is like big cedar versus big cypress versus the mill, it's like that all still falls under this quality standard.
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean that that a lot of people call him the Walt Disney of the outdoors and that's where he gets the name. He's just atten cr he's just very atten attention to detail.
speaker-0: I guess that's a great segue too, 'cause one of the other things we were chatting ab about before the call was like the revision process, right? And this idea of like revision cycles, how there's a point of like revision fatigue that can come up. you know, this this idea of like what even calling back earlier to our conversation where it's like, you spent the night working on a project that like still well, I guess you didn't say that it didn't work out, but like the timing right wasn't quite there. So I just I'm curious like what comes to mind when you hear revisions or like how maybe maybe how does that take shape at Big Cedar? Because I assume you've got a stake in it, social has a stake in it, sounds like the department itself might have a stake in it.
speaker-1: Yeah, we talked about Johnny's legendary attention to details. When we opened the new golf course, opened the fourth of July last year. It's called Cliffhangers. And all these other five courses have these, you know, famous des golf designers. and then the sixth one Johnny designed himself. And so when we rolled it out, we had 7.2 billion media impressions. and a lot of it is fo it's so unique. It's just so there's nothing else in the world. Like one of the holes is inside of a cave. and there's a waterfall in front of you. You hit through the waterfall to get to the hole. So he designed it, right? And so we wanted to roll it out with a commercial on a PGA tour event, and we wanted to unveil it, right? So I edited I was editing the video. And making the video. And he literally sat with me and he would say, you know, then I would or if he wasn't there, I would text him the next version of it, and then he would say, Move this, move that. no, we need this shot. And so I mean, I think the one that finally aired, it was it was version 46, is the one that finally aired. So Wow, you know. And it's a it was a thirty second commercial. So you know, a lot of revisions for thirty seconds.
speaker-0: And how how how did how did you live that like as the main creative behind it? Like were you kind of going into it being like, only 46? Or did you come out of it thinking like wow, that was a lot? And how did you handle that along the way?
speaker-1: If it was early in my career in the first twenties, in the first couple of years of the twenty six, I would have been like, Wow, that is forty six. I've never heard of anything like that. But now it's like no, it it didn't phase me one bit. I knew it would, you know, he'd have a lot of changes. but the the good thing is looking at the first version versus forty six, it's forty six is way better than the first version. It's not like well, we We had this on the first version. No, 46 was way way better. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and he being the customer, he was he was right. And he he absolutely was right. it ended up being better. And but yeah at the end of the day, you know what? It it it's not it it does not hurt my feeling. When sometimes I think when people, especially if you shoot it and you're editing it and someone says I don't like that scene. You're like hurt. You're not as the artist. Because you're an artist, right? And you're like, that was the shot I loved. And you know what? I and at the very beginning, I was like that. I I do admit I was like that. I was like, got went home and like my feelings were hurt. Like, I thought that was one of the best shots. Right. And now and now it's it it doesn't phase me one bit because I want I just want him to be happy and I want. the best product possible. And I don't care who shoots it or if I shot it great, if I didn't, I don't care. I just want it to be the best possible product. And at the end of the day, if it takes forty six tries to get it right, it it doesn't matter to me.
speaker-0: Was there a moment or like a mentality that you adopted to kind of break through that ceiling of like because I think a lot of creatives get stuck there, right? Where that's like it's super personal. It's like, like this piece is me. And if you're criticizing it, you're criticizing me. Versus like kind of, I don't know, on one hand it's like It's it's in the hospitality nature, right, to say like, well, I want the customer to be happy, you know, what they say is what's gonna be best. But on the other hand, it's also like this is a business, and so you have to kind of cut that line, I would assume, where it's like I'm making this for somebody and that's you know, it's going to serve business purposes. So if it ends up changing, it's not because my art wasn't good or whatever. It's because it needs to hit certain benchmarks to be a successful piece of content for a business. So I don't know, was there a mentality or a moment that helped you embrace that?
speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I think I finally just realized you know, you're thinking too highly of yourself, Jeff. you need to take you out of the equation. And this is just to make guests want to come to Big Cedar. And however you do that is it's up to you. But you need to take yourself out of the equation. It's not this video isn't for you. Right. So yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah. And you still have that V one that you could be like that one wouldn't.
speaker-1: That's right. That's right.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. I think it's a tricky balance, but I mean like it sounds like you've navigated it well and then to be, you know, smiling on the other side of a forty six version edit, then it's like, you know, you I think you've achieved it, Jeff.
speaker-1: Well, I mean, I think y you just gotta be humble and it's like, you know, I I definitely don't know best. I mean, this guy, Johnny Morris is legendary, right? So who am I to say that V one was the one we should go with?
speaker-0: Totally. Totally. So okay, like one or two more questions for you. Okay. So that's a very specific example where Johnny, the man himself, right, is like weighing in. But what's like a typical like revision phase experience at Big Cedar? Like who are the stakeholders and like where are they usually inject like where does their input usually come from? You know, like I know that Everyone's favorite is like legal always looks at the end and they have a certain lens that they're looking at it from. But like maybe take like the landscaping example or if another one comes to mind, like what's more standard for you guys?
speaker-1: I think the more standard is Chris we we come up with okay, we need a video about landscaping and we need a couple interviews and we need to show the beauty of the resort. Go make that happen. He comes out with version one and shows it to me, and then I'll make my tweaks, and then once I make my tweaks, then we send it out to like the vice president of marketing and the marketing director and get their Thoughts on it. And and then we are able to send it out. And that's usually, it sounds like a long process. This is all happening, you know, within a couple of hours. So it's it's a very quick process, but still I I think I, you know, I look at it first just to give my spin on it. and and I know it's fairly close if I if I, you know, like it. and then yeah, usually no, it would not go to the owner. for for no, it would not go to Yeah, Johnny wouldn't be watching every video. We w we would never get anything done, right?
speaker-0: You're probably yeah. Yeah, yeah. He'd just be watching big cedar videos all day. Yeah.
speaker-1: But commercials definitely television commercials, he defin the owner, Johnny does watch those and does approve those. you know, and also the president of hospitality would watch those as well.
speaker-0: Okay. Okay. And in the so in the landscaping example, it sounded like you'd mentioned that the department, someone in the department themselves noticed you know, a flaw or like something in the shot post posting or post it going live, right? Is that a common thing or like to have alternate stakeholders aside from within the marketing channel, it sounds like?
speaker-1: Right. So if it's a video like that, I want to I would want to them to look at it to make sure it's technically correct. Like maybe we showed something, maybe food and beverage wise. I definitely send it to the vice president of food and beverage and all the the senior leadership team of food and beverage. I want to make sure, you know, they don't look at it like, wait, no, we wouldn't that must have been a mistake. We would never serve. That side dish with this entree, there must have been a mistake, you know. and so I want to make sure that it's technically correct as far as the products and everything. and then also housekeeping. If we show like the interior of a room, I would send it to the head of housekeeping. Maybe we have a maybe we have we're showing something that I don't even realize is wrong with the room because I'm not in those rooms every day. Maybe something in the cabin is off. And that share is not supposed to be there. so I would want to make sure it's all correct.
speaker-0: And some of it could be like like a trickery of editing, right? Where like if you're splicing going back to like the food and beverage, like I'm splicing shots of them sending the salad out from the first course with shots of them also preparing something from the main course and then but when you play it back, it looks like they were served in the same moment, and that's where it starts to feel weird, right? but for an editor it's just like, I was just trying to show the food being prepped.
speaker-1: Right. Yeah. And we don't we don't know. We're not food experts. Like the last week this happened. we showed you know, we we have this tour that you can go on and you go to all these different re restaurants at the resort and you get on a shuttle, you have like an appetizer here, then you have the main course here, and we were showing the appetizer looked amazing. I thought that was the main course. We were showing that as the main course. I didn't know. Yeah. So that The food and beverage team said, Yeah, this is great, but this is actually the appetizer. Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah. that's great. You used a very important word, I think, like once or twice, where you said, like, are there is there anything like technically wrong with it? So what's your pro tip if you had like one way to avoid too many cooks in the kitchen, sort of a thing, where now suddenly, you know, the person that's the head of a department is kind of giving feedback that's outside their lane, where it's like, I don't like the music, or like this feels too fast, or something, right? It's like that's not what you were l doing the Curtis professional courtesy of looping them in on you wanted to know if it's factually correct. What's your pro tip to get that type of response?
speaker-1: man, that is a tough one. I don't know. I think it's You know, don't send it to unless you feel really, really good about it. I'd never send just like a rough draft of like, I don't know, we're thinking about using this music, but I don't know. I I wouldn't I wouldn't send it until I'm pretty comfortable with it. And usually, you know, they stay in their lane. Usually they're like, Yeah, we focus on food.
speaker-0: So it's like it maybe what I'm hearing is like the more polished the video looks where it's like this is done. It just needs to make sure it's like not, you know, technically incorrect. I keep going back to that. But like it so is that a solid takeaway is like the more completed and like we're ready to post this as soon as you give us the thumbs up, then that usually keeps them straying into like kind of these other avenues of feedback.
speaker-1: Yes, and and what I yes, in every little detail, even like things that you wouldn't think matter, one thing that comes to mind is the thumbnail.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Especially on like frame where you can't choose what it is or whatever.
speaker-1: We use Vimeo is what we use. And I usually text the video out. And you know, the thumbnail that comes up on your on your iPhone or whatever, if that is not like a good scene or something, and sometimes I think we might get in a hurry and we just like it, whatever it land, you know, so it'll do it automatically, the thumbnail, right? And so whatever it lands on, if it's some crazy scene, it's whatever. Well Before they even click play, they already have in their mind, this isn't gonna be good. And this has happened several times. They've not even clicked play, they're like, I don't like this. And so I know. I I think even the thumbnail matters. It's that kind of attention to detail and making sure that it is as close to polished and perfect as possible. I've found that out really early at my
speaker-0: Analytics, you're like they haven't even played it yet.
speaker-1: career here about some of the folks that watch it. You they they can't imagine what it's gonna be like with you can't say, well, we're gonna use different music or or send it without music and then say, well, we're gonna add music. They they can't they can't imagine that.
speaker-0: Or not color graded, right?
speaker-1: Right. It's like when I say that, the first message I get back is this looks horrible. This looks all flat. There's no color. I go, yeah, I know. Remember me saying
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. that's interesting.
speaker-1: Yeah, don't s I that would be my pro tip is make sure you're sending it the way you would want to view it, not add all these little asterisk and say, We're gonna color it later, we're gonna add music later.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's a great point. I think I that is lost on me. I think it's kind of this curse of knowledge for me, right? Where I'm like, Yeah, I in my mind's eye, I'm filling those gaps. Where I'm like, it's not gonna look like that, like I already know. And if I if I have to send it out for interest of time and don't mention that, then it's like, yeah, the the client could lose all confidence, right? Where it's like, what is this? And then but then I think even like inside, so we do internal revision rounds, right? Much like you and Chris. Where it's like you'll go back and forth and if he shows you something that's not color graded, I doubt you go like hang up, you know. Like that
speaker-1: That's right. You know, so yeah, to your point, it matters who you're sending it to. If you sent me something and said it needs to be color graded, I'd I'd be totally fine with it, you know. And I can imagine what it would look like, you know, saturated and looking great. but there's a lot of people that are if you're not into video and in the video world, it's and you're maybe you're a food and beverage director, you know, and you're not gonna be able to visualize what it's gonna look like.
speaker-0: Yeah, and then catering to that audience and making sure to to keep instilling the confidence that it's like, don't start out already hating it before you've pressed play. Like I love that hit that pro tip about the thumbnail because I don't know that you could change it on frame. They just fairly recently in the last year or so released like a pretty big update. We use frame IO for our revision process. And so I haven't checked if you can customize the thumbnail when you send it, but I assume Vimeo lets you at least like, you know. Because I know on the player for Vimeo you can obviously upload an image or whatever. So so you will part of your sending out process is to modify what is on the thumbnail, whether it's for every single time. Every single time. That's huge. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that gets it in the right you know, mind that gets them in the right mindset out the gate rather than, like you said, instantly just like
speaker-1: Every You w you wouldn't think that would matter, right? Like you wouldn't think that would matter. But
speaker-0: I wouldn't no.
speaker-1: I know, I know.
speaker-0: It's like a layman thing, right? Where it's like I guess when you're s I guess the closest I can think is like if I'm scrolling on YouTube and I'm like, which one of these videos about how to fix my sink am I gonna watch? I'm gonna want the one that has something in the thumbnail that looks relevant versus like, they probably just upload maybe a sink isn't the best example. But you know what I mean? Like that's probably the closest I get to those shoes. Well, great. I had one final question and then anything else you'd like to throw in before we wrap here, but what do you feel like is some of the one or two biggest like unlocks when it comes to a video team being able to successfully work within the hospitality space? Like whether that's an internal team and the systems that they need to have or an external vendor that you're bringing on and like the communication style or the the knowledge of the industry, like what are some of the key characteristics that really can make or break a video team's success specifically within hospitality?
speaker-1: I think one of the biggest things that people struggle with is they they think they know about the hours of hospitality, but they don't I don't know if you realize there is no sign that says we don't turn a sign that says closed. So it's twenty four hours a day. That there's there's no door locks on any of the doors up there. So it's it's all yeah, it's twenty four seven.
speaker-0: Legitimately.
speaker-1: Wow. Yeah, it's a resort. So it's going 247. So it's you're not having to video 247, but you know, a lot of these dinners and stuff happen at night, and then you're still gotta be here early in the morning. And so it it does the it is long hours. Hospitality is long hours because it is going all the time and it's not it's not Monday through Friday. A lot of the big things happen on the weekends for hospitality. So that's one thing. And then I would just say, you know, the biggest thing with teams working together is communication as as any industry. It really is just you gotta have great communication to to gel as a team, especially when you're you know, in in the video world and trying to capture all this content and you've you've got to have great communication.
speaker-0: Yeah, I can double down on that too. I think like some of the most convolute like we're obviously not an in house team, that's kind of like the whole point. But like some of our longest communication chains are like, you know, we are hired by well, actually let me start earlier. So it's like an editor sends it to a supervisor who sends it to, you know, the project manager who is then speaking on behalf of our team, and then our team is contracted by a post or a production company that has actually gotten, you know been accumulating the footage and they tend to have a producer, an executive producer, or someone with an opinion, I'll put it that way. And then that team, the production team is hired by an agency. And some or multiple people at that agency have opinions about the work that was created like way back here by the editor. And then the agency is then the one that speaks to the to the end client or like, you know, in our case like a resort or you know a destination or something like that. So To double down on your point about communication, it's like I I wish I could control what happens outside of like my space when it comes to like how messaging gets transferred. But like we just try to do the best we can between the editor and the production team and then hope you know and then we set it on its way and hope that the production team and agency relay or you know, connect things. So a lot can break down quick.
speaker-1: Yes, especially in your business, communication is key. I mean, I remember when when you know we used your your archaeist to help us edit. You gotta have great communication because you weren't there to film it. You're simply there to edit it. So how would you know that the fourth guy from the right in this group of people is actually the founder of the company? That's the main focus of the video. I mean, you don't know these little details, right? Unless someone like me says, hey, make sure in this scene the fourth guy from the right is the founder. So you've got to have great communication when you're sending the footage to an external place to be edited.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I mean, yeah, that makes sense. And I mean we lived it right. And I think a big thing that helps I've found is like similar to how you said that you'll do a lot of the scheduling conversation with the social team like in a conversation, right? It's a call or a meeting or something. We do a lot of that too. So a lot of like, let's just talk this out. Like I've seen other companies where it's more hands off, it's more like you upload your footage, maybe you type out one or two sentences about you want and then We put it in the black box and then something comes out. You never actually engage with the human. And I'm like, I don't know how you do that. I mean, there's companies that exist and clearly they have maybe there's a certain type of video or relationship where that works out just fine and really well. But I think it's just not our style. We'd much rather like get on a call and be, you know, kind of in that sort of like in-house give that in-house feeling of like, yeah, we're we're all people that can talk and we're all stateside. I think that that helps, right? to be able to have these conversations and and suss out some of these details ahead of time instead of like, you know, version forty six or whatever. Yeah. Exactly. Cool. Well, well thank you so much, Jeff. I don't know if there's any other points you want to bring up or anything they going on for Cedar Lodge, Big Cedar, other than the the award.
speaker-1: No. One of the other things I get into being creative director is sometimes people want to film a movie at Big Cedar. cool. Especially at Christmas. It looks like a Hallmark movie. And so they are coming in the next few weeks, Hallmark is to film a Christmas movie here. So those are Yes. So those are some of the things that I get to do as well, even though w you know, we're not having th anything to do with filming, it's just helping with locations and and those types of things. Yeah.
speaker-0: With that, like, is there an ideal place where people can get familiar with Big Cedar's work and like connect with you directly if that's your something something that you're open to?
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. big cedar dot com is the best place to learn about Big Cedar. And I'm on LinkedIn under Jeff Wilhoit and I'd love to connect with y'all.
speaker-0: Awesome. Well I'll make sure and include that link. But thank you so much for your time today, Jeff. It's always a pleasure getting
speaker-1: It was an honor to be on this podcast. This is so cool.
speaker-0: Hey, well thank you so much. I feel like we could nerd out all day on video stuff. So round two in a couple of months, we'll see. That's
speaker-1: Sounds good.
speaker-0: Thanks for joining my conversation with Jeff. My biggest takeaway was the point about taking yourself out of the equation. The idea that after 46 revisions, it's not about whether your first cut was right. It's about making sure the final product actually serves the person watching it. I know it's a bit extreme, but Jeff's experience highlights a critical point in our industry. It's easy to get precious about your own work or to take revision notes personally. But Jeff reminds us that the goal was never to be right on the first try. It's to end up with something that makes people want to walk through the door. It's so important to remember that while your instincts as a creative matter, you also need to keep the bigger picture in mind. What does the client, the founder, the viewer actually need to see in order to drive business results? If you want to see the video that took 46 revisions to get right, Check out the show notes for Big Cedar's Cliffhangers announcement, celebrating their Paynes Valley course being named the number one public golf course in the country. I've also linked another example of Jeff's handiwork with a video that overviews all of Big Cedar's beautiful courses. And if you want to follow Jeff's journey in hospitality video marketing, I've included his information in the description as well. Don't forget to hit subscribe. This has been Let's Fix Post.
