E71: 📚 Accidental scholars — Responding to teaching and learning gaps in the Trades

WEBVTT
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I'm right there with you, Ryan. Like I never would have called myself a researcher
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on things, just somebody who wants things to be the best that they can be.
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So yeah, putting a label on it, I'm a very informal kind of individual.
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I don't like the accolades of, "Oh, you did the research on this.
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Congratulations." No, I just, I'm just doing things because I want to see them improve.
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So putting a label on it is still challenging for me, but you're absolutely
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right. That is what we're doing every day.
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Yep, we are researchers.
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Music.
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This is Learning Innovation, the Teaching and Learning podcast,
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also known as LITL-Pod.
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We are created by Lethbridge Polytechnic's Centre for Teaching,
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Learning and Innovation, located in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada on the traditional
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lands of the Blackfoot Confederacy.
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In the spirit of Equity, Diversity, Inclusion and Niitsitapi’ksimpstaan
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(Real Thinking), we play host to a spectrum of guests from the teaching and learning community.
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As we highlight and explore innovation in education, we hope to kindle warm
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conversations, expand perspectives and foster lasting partnerships today, tomorrow, and beyond.
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The future of learning starts now.
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Oki, and welcome. I am your host, Donna McLaughlin, and I am a learning experience
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designer at Lethbridge Polytechnic.
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When Ryan Mann, faculty development facilitator at SAIT's Centre for Academic
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Development and Innovation,
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created a guidebook for educators on how to use AI in teaching and learning,
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he didn't consider it scholarly research.
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And when Eric Mitchell, an automotive services instructor at Lethbridge Polytechnic,
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developed an after-hours micro-
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credential to help students develop basic vehicle maintenance skills,
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he didn't label it as scholarly work.
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Ryan and Eric don't see themselves as scholars, but it doesn't change the fact
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that they are still engaged in scholarly teaching and learning.
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While Ryan and Eric think they're just doing their jobs,
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Jaddon Park, academic services manager at Lethbridge Polytechnic,
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believes it may be beneficial to call it scholarly work like it is,
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not just for the title, but because it expands the impact of the amazing work happening.
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Also joining our discussion today is Craig McCarthy, a learning experience designer
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at Lethbridge Polytechnic.
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I'm Eric. Most everyone knows me here, but Ryan, nice to meet you.
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I've been here at the polytechnic for, this is my fourth year here,
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coming from industry. I am an automotive mechanic, Red Seal mechanic.
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Let's see, a little about me. I like to look for ways to improve things,
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to change things, to improve things.
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Sometimes it fails, sometimes it's good. I used to work at a custom camper van
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building place, and so I got to really experiment and try new things.
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It wasn't a traditional customer needs brakes, customer needs wheel alignment.
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It was building, it was creating, and that really fueled my creative side, I guess.
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Never really classified myself as the artistic style of person,
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but getting to create, I would say that to me is my art.
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So I've been a carpentry instructor for 11 years before starting the last year
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and a half as a faculty development facilitator at the, what are we called now?
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The Teaching and Learning Commons. We've gone through a few name changes as
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we're re-forming everything.
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And so a lot of my, you know, I can piggyback almost exactly what you kind of
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said, Eric, about, you know, always wanting to sort of tweak things,
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improve things, try things.
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And so I think people get kind of annoyed with me sometimes because I'm always
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like, hey, have you tried this before? Have you thought about this?
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Maybe I could implement this. Oh my gosh.
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So, you know, with that often comes this idea of a pilot — trying something to
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see if you can get a little bit of understanding if it's going to work,
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create a use case or something like that so that you can kind of get the data you need to do it.
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And I never even thought of anything that I did as scholarly activities,
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SoTL, whatever, maybe a little bit of scholarly teaching.
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But at the same time, it was just all about improvement. And so new terms,
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you know, in the last year and a half for me, but this is a good thing.
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Good morning, everyone.
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Ryan, really nice to meet you. My name is Jaddon Park.
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I am the academic services manager with the Centre for Teaching,
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Learning, and Innovation at Lethbridge Polytechnic.
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Over the past year and a bit now, I've been kind of collaborating and working
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with Donna to try to support growth,
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interest, and engagement in the Scholarship of Teaching and Learning and scholarly
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teaching and action research across the polytechnic.
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I'm Craig McCarthy. I'm also a learning experience designer here at Lethbridge Polytechnic, and I'm
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I am just kind of hanging out today. I did meet Ryan briefly at the Trades conference
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at SAIT a year or two ago or so.
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So we've kind of connected over AI a little bit. So I've been meaning to get
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back to you about AI, Ryan, by the way, but I haven't gotten around to it.
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So someday soon, but yeah, related to what you were saying about like being
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the guy who kept like nudging people or whatever.
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I was like, when I was teaching, I was in the staff room one time and was going on about something.
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And then I like left, but I could still hear the conversation when the guy's
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like, that guy's always on about something. He's always got like something he's
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fired up about or whatever.
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I think I exhaust people sometimes that way. All right.
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Well, it's wonderful to meet everyone and so thankful to have you join me today
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for this great conversation.
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So I'm curious to know how each of you define scholarly teaching and learning
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and maybe also SoTL, Scholarship of Teaching and Learning.
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So yeah, feel free to jump in whoever would like to go first.
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I'll go because when you asked me, I'm like, okay, I remember hearing about
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this in ICPs, but I did so many of them so quick.
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So anyways, I went back and looked at some, actually one of your old podcasts that you did.
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And I'm like, oh, right. So without stealing anybody else's description of it,
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I formulated my description of it.
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To me, it is looking for a need, whether it's in the classroom, institute, or
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larger, and looking for a need, looking for seeing and recognizing those gaps
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because they're there. There's gaps.
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For example, I think it was my first year here, we were missing a dual overhead
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camshaft engine, right?
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It's in the modules. It's what we teach about.
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It's what's in modern vehicles. We did not have a decent cutaway of that.
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So I had a little bit of time on my hands. So I went to work,
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you know, cutting it apart so that it would work.
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So I saw a need, I tried something and every single cut that I made on that engine was...
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An educated wish that it would work.
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So, yeah, to me, that's how I would define it.
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Seeing, recognizing those gaps and then following your curiosity and seeing
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how it will benefit the students.
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Great. Thanks, Eric. Great example that you used as well. Thank you.
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Ryan, would you like to add to that?
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Absolutely. So I think just
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kind of adding to that piece is
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the scholarly teaching is it it's about
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getting better and you do that by trying
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stuff, you get that by reading and looking at what's out there and
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what other people are doing in your community as well and that there
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to me before I started sort of figuring out what scholarly teaching and learning
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and and SoTL and scholarly activity was it was just about being better.
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And I didn't really have words for it, but now I do.
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And, you know, and then there's the SoTL part, which is specific to, you know,
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research and publication, but really where I kind of see all the work that I've
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been doing in the last couple of years is it's just sort of generically scholarly activity, I think.
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Great. Thank you so much, Ryan. As an educator and a kind of supporter of teacher
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development, I would kind of look at scholarly teaching as sort of that...
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You know, it's embedded in the idea of critical reflection. So you're constantly
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reflecting on your own practice. How can I teach better?
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How can I support my students to be more successful learners?
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With the scholarly teaching, we're obviously kind of reaching out,
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looking for new ideas, reading more, teaching ourself about new strategies and
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innovations that we can then try out in our classroom.
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So it really is about kind of a systematic and strategic implementation of new
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ideas, trying it out, see if it works.
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Talking to Eric this morning about trying out things like an exit slip.
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Doesn't work at the end of the day, I'm going to try it at the start of the day as an entrance slip.
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Kind of iterative process of trying out innovations to see what connects and
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works with students to ultimately support student success.
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Yeah, I can tell you that conversation we were having earlier with the exit
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slips, right? It's the end of the day.
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My students are ready to go. They got other things on their mind.
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They're kind of checked out. They're going to go home. They're going to reset.
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They're going to come back to their books. They're going to study for a couple hours.
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And then when they come in in the morning, they're fresh. They're vibrant.
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They're ready to go. At that point, I was like, okay, take 10 minutes,
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write down a question on a piece of paper, and it will be anonymous questions.
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I've had a last two years of students haven't wanted to ask,
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have not wanted to ask questions.
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So with the entrance slips, they were awake, they wrote down something about
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what they read the night before, and then we could have a real, genuine conversation.
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And actually some of the best, best learning and discussion I would say came
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out of those very organic questions — and nobody felt like they were being judged.
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So I saw something, tried it,
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I wouldn't say I failed, but I definitely had to readjust.
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And then the readjustment was actually great. That's a great example. Thank you, Eric.
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For me, I think my perspective on scholarly teaching and learning has been rather informal.
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I think I've always been focused more on the reflective practice than on the
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formal sharing of knowledge.
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And so that's something I'm getting to do more in my role now as a learning
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experience designer, where I'm getting to go present at, you know,
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at the conference or just share at some of our local...
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Teaching and learning conferences or presentations and things like that.
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So I think my focus has always been more on the experiential and kind of like
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lowercase 'r' research and not on like the more formal research process.
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And I just, I find so much value in, in hearing the experiences of instructors.
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And often I feel like I get more value out of having those experiential conversations
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than out of a formal research paper.
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But I think that there's a place for both. But my focus has always kind of been
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on the more informal side.
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So Ryan and Eric, I'm curious, I hinted at your projects in the intro,
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but I'd really love to hear the details.
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Ryan, can you start us off and tell us more about your AI teaching and learning
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guidebook for educators? Absolutely.
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Basically, what ended up happening was SAIT, every year for the last couple
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of years, has done a teaching innovators program.
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And it's a whole big application process and all that kind of stuff.
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But I actually didn't intend on being part of it until my dean at the time said,
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"It's the day that everything's due and I haven't seen your application yet,
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so I would like to see that soon."
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I was like, okay, sounds good. So I basically just wanted to answer a few questions at the time.
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And it was about moving into authentic assessment within, you know,
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our non-lab Trades classes. I wanted to talk about how we can figure out how
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we could address some of our neurodivergent students and our EAL students.
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And also, I wanted to find out how my life could be made easier with some sort
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of like, how do we accomplish the tasks that are in front of us?
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Because there's a mountain and it feels like we're just basically taking out
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little pinecones at a time.
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So I kind of started diving
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into ChatGPT at the time and really found it to be this incredible resource
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that was so empowering and so enabling to all of the questions that I had, plus a whole bunch more.
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And so I started figuring, I started tackling a bunch of my own stuff and I
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was like, I really should spread the word in a sense and get that out.
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And so I, I started working on this publication, which is a guide to generative AI for educators.
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And...
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You know, I kind of finished it up last summer and, you know,
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sent it out to a few people to get feedback on it.
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And it kind of actually blew up, which was really weird.
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It's kind of all over Western Canada at all levels of education right now.
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And it's kind of bizarre. It feels weird.
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Wow, that's really exciting. That's really exciting to hear.
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Were there any challenges in creating this?
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I mean, anytime you're creating something off the side of your desk,
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absolutely. There's time challenges. There's all that.
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It became just about prioritizing time. So instead of doing one thing,
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I worked on this during certain points just to try and get it finished.
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And, you know, that's just the way that all of our time ends up being, right?
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Like everything, almost everything we do that isn't, you know,
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related directly to our job is off the side of our desks.
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And what have been some of the outcomes? I mean, you mentioned that this has
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really spread. People have really taken it on. What sort of things are you hearing back?
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A whole bunch of people saying that they just have seen, like,
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their Bright Space shells are improved.
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The resources for their students, the way that they teach has changed as they
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kind of get different ways to deliver material rather than just talking in front of a class, which,
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you know, we all kind of probably know is not always the best way to do everything. You know...
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The fact that we have AI sort of enabled new instructors in the Trades at SAIT
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right now after running an AI, well,
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part of an AI program with them, and them sort of not floundering at the beginning
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of their careers as instructors at SAIT has been such a cool thing to see.
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And, you know, they're building faster than I've seen anybody else build anything in their careers so far.
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Oh, that's really fantastic. Can you walk us through an example from the guidebook?
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Yes. So the guidebook is very practical in the sense that it gives ideas of
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how you can use it, but it's also not going into how to prompt,
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how to do all these kinds of things for each task.
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So, you know, if an instructor is actually going back to that idea of not standing
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in front of a classroom and chatting for an hour and a half or two or whatever,
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then, you know, go into ChatGPT and say, hey, I'm doing a lesson on whatever it is, wall framing.
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Here's some of the topics that we're going to be discussing.
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And how could I do some participatory learning in that class and give me 10
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examples so that then you can pick what works,
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adapt it to your own, because of course, you always have to
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have the human element and and deliver
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your class differently you know and try it out if it
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works great if it doesn't try something
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else. Ryan I just wanted to uh to comment on what you're doing there because
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as you're talking about this what you're doing with the AI you know I thought
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okay well my you know Trades are often well they're hands-on right? And in
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the classroom, yeah, how do you get them going?
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So as you're talking about using AI, I'm like, well, I've done that.
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I've done that too, but I guess I never really considered that scholarly, right?
00:17:30.107 --> 00:17:33.927
Like that was just, I heard about it and then started playing with it.
00:17:34.547 --> 00:17:40.287
I, you know, that human aspect that you mentioned is super important because
00:17:40.287 --> 00:17:44.387
at the end of the day, we are the professionals in our trade.
00:17:44.507 --> 00:17:47.047
We are the professionals to know what, what is being talked,
00:17:47.247 --> 00:17:48.427
what we need to talk about.
00:17:48.627 --> 00:17:51.687
You know, if I ask, if I ask a student to define insulation,
00:17:52.227 --> 00:17:56.387
they'll hop on Google and they'll Google it. And next thing I know,
00:17:56.627 --> 00:17:59.307
they're talking about insulation in a wall or something like that.
00:17:59.507 --> 00:18:05.067
Well, I'm a mechanic and we don't have insulation in the walls of vehicles.
00:18:05.767 --> 00:18:12.667
We're talking about electrical. So using AI is a little smarter than Googling,
00:18:12.887 --> 00:18:19.487
I found, but yet there are still a few little things that need to be tweaked and touched up on that.
00:18:19.667 --> 00:18:22.727
So I'm very, very interested in what you're doing. And actually,
00:18:23.207 --> 00:18:26.347
we have an instructor's conference coming up, a transportation instructors conference
00:18:26.347 --> 00:18:31.007
coming at the end of the month, first that week, end of April, beginning of May.
00:18:31.167 --> 00:18:36.847
And Craig is actually going to be presenting a session on AI. So glad you're here.
00:18:37.598 --> 00:18:44.198
Awesome. Yeah. And Craig, when he came and talked at the Alberta Dean's Association
00:18:44.198 --> 00:18:50.518
of Trades conference here at SAIT, it was really, really cool to see what he was doing as well.
00:18:50.618 --> 00:18:54.198
But I do want to just go back to what you're saying about context,
00:18:54.198 --> 00:19:01.478
because I think there's such a big piece to understanding that when we interact
00:19:01.478 --> 00:19:04.778
with AI, we need to give that context.
00:19:05.018 --> 00:19:10.998
And also, it's not just about going and asking the first question and believing
00:19:10.998 --> 00:19:14.178
that. It's about working towards the correct answer.
00:19:14.358 --> 00:19:19.538
So if you say something like, tell me about insulation, and it says,
00:19:19.698 --> 00:19:23.218
well, we have blah, blah, blah in walls, versus, oh, no, actually,
00:19:23.258 --> 00:19:26.398
I was talking about electrical insulation in here, and then you get the right answer.
00:19:26.538 --> 00:19:30.838
And the number of people that I talk to that say, well, I tried ChatGPT,
00:19:30.918 --> 00:19:35.118
and it gave me the wrong answer. And that was it.
00:19:35.838 --> 00:19:39.118
That's not how we're supposed to interact with it. Yep. So I
00:19:39.118 --> 00:19:42.818
think that was a very good point Eric. The way that
00:19:42.818 --> 00:19:45.478
you need to interact with AI I guess like or I guess a rule
00:19:45.478 --> 00:19:48.358
of thumb that we've kind of come up with is that it's really difficult
00:19:48.358 --> 00:19:51.678
to get AI to do something that you don't know how to do yourself and so
00:19:51.678 --> 00:19:54.618
like you can use it for learning and like there's really positive ways
00:19:54.618 --> 00:19:57.878
you can use it for learning but if you're trying to like do a task like come up
00:19:57.878 --> 00:20:00.738
with or you know like some a project
00:20:00.738 --> 00:20:03.518
for for teaching or like those kind of tasks... if you
00:20:03.518 --> 00:20:06.358
don't have an idea of what that lesson
00:20:06.358 --> 00:20:09.178
actually looks like like I could try to do that same thing that you you talked
00:20:09.178 --> 00:20:13.098
about Ryan — like give me 10 ideas for participatory learning in this for this
00:20:13.098 --> 00:20:16.318
outcome but because I don't know anything about mechanics I wouldn't be able
00:20:16.318 --> 00:20:18.958
to look at that list and then be like oh this is a good idea this isn't a good
00:20:18.958 --> 00:20:24.858
idea and so... even though like it can generate all this information we could ask
00:20:24.858 --> 00:20:28.858
the exact same questions but if the user doesn't have that expertise it's hard to make it,
00:20:29.397 --> 00:20:33.277
useful — or you might get lucky and get something that works but often AI is being
00:20:33.277 --> 00:20:36.057
used kind of like irresponsibly where someone will try to do something they
00:20:36.057 --> 00:20:39.037
don't know how to do they'll get this list of things and they'll pick one and
00:20:39.037 --> 00:20:40.657
it doesn't actually make sense for the context and so,
00:20:41.357 --> 00:20:44.977
that's a similar trap for students like you're describing of like you can use
00:20:44.977 --> 00:20:47.657
AI and you can think that you're getting the right answer, but when you really
00:20:47.657 --> 00:20:51.657
don't know you can be led astray and so that's where we really just emphasize
00:20:51.657 --> 00:20:54.437
that instructor experience or like an expertise that...
00:20:55.357 --> 00:21:00.237
It's most valuable for you when you're doing something that you are kind of an expert in
00:21:00.477 --> 00:21:04.557
that kind of way it can really it can reduce your workload but it's it's it
00:21:04.557 --> 00:21:08.217
doesn't replace you you're still the person like you said Ryan is like the person
00:21:08.217 --> 00:21:11.997
is so necessary for that process. Well it's it's it's a tool right? You know I
00:21:11.997 --> 00:21:13.897
think about my toolbox and I have...
00:21:14.457 --> 00:21:17.597
Many many tools that are made out of metal, you know?
00:21:17.597 --> 00:21:20.597
I have a torque wrench made out of metal, it's
00:21:20.597 --> 00:21:23.357
quite heavy. I'm not going to use that torque wrench
00:21:23.357 --> 00:21:26.477
to drive out a ball joint, right? I
00:21:26.477 --> 00:21:31.357
I would use a hammer for that — so you have to be aware of the tools that are
00:21:31.357 --> 00:21:35.397
in your toolbox and how to properly use that tool and that's where that expertise
00:21:35.397 --> 00:21:41.257
comes in. I actually, I took a picture on ChatGPT of a vehicle engine bay — I didn't
00:21:41.257 --> 00:21:44.937
say anything about what the vehicle was or anything, I just took a picture of it,
00:21:45.097 --> 00:21:47.977
said, this vehicle is overheating, what should I do?
00:21:48.177 --> 00:21:53.357
And it wrote out quite a long list of things to do and check and things like that.
00:21:53.397 --> 00:21:57.457
But if you don't know where you're looking and how to, you know,
00:21:57.537 --> 00:22:00.977
change that thermostat because it's overheating, you'll get an idea,
00:22:01.097 --> 00:22:02.897
but you won't be able to accomplish the job.
00:22:03.357 --> 00:22:07.397
And I just want to try to kind of tie a little bit of a bow around some of these
00:22:07.397 --> 00:22:12.757
conversations where we're taking AI as the example and the guidebook that Ryan's developed.
00:22:12.997 --> 00:22:18.517
What I get really excited about is hearing that there's lots of people using that guidebook.
00:22:18.677 --> 00:22:23.577
And to me, there's a great example of kind of promoting scholarly teaching across
00:22:23.577 --> 00:22:29.617
your field and your discipline, where it's all about a resource, a tool,
00:22:30.017 --> 00:22:36.917
some ideas that are kind of being integrated with your pedagogical expertise
00:22:36.917 --> 00:22:42.677
and your knowledge of your discipline to improve your teaching practice and
00:22:42.677 --> 00:22:43.757
the student experience.
00:22:44.297 --> 00:22:49.197
So scholarly teaching is happening in many different dimensions within kind
00:22:49.197 --> 00:22:53.817
of the AI guidebook and that torque wrench you're talking about, Eric.
00:22:54.379 --> 00:22:58.939
We're covering a lot of ground here, and it's great to hear the looking at it
00:22:58.939 --> 00:23:04.619
through the scholarly teaching lens as well, from AI to torque wrenches. That's fantastic.
00:23:05.659 --> 00:23:10.419
Eric, I'm curious to know now about the project that you've been working on.
00:23:10.539 --> 00:23:14.899
Can you tell us about the auto maintenance micro-credential that you've developed?
00:23:15.159 --> 00:23:20.119
Yeah, so that it's, I will clarify, it's not fully developed. It's in works.
00:23:20.619 --> 00:23:23.659
Actually I have a meeting a little bit later today with the
00:23:23.659 --> 00:23:28.559
Extensions program on this, but last I think it was the beginning of the year
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.699
someone from our marketing came up and they're like oh it'd be great if you guys
00:23:31.699 --> 00:23:35.559
offered this I'm like that would be great that would be great and kind of put
00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:40.679
it on the back shelf and thought about it and what that would look like and I've given other...
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:47.339
Small lessons to you know youth groups and things like that — the Boy Scouts and things like that but,
00:23:47.879 --> 00:23:50.899
it was a couple months later I was down in CTLI
00:23:50.899 --> 00:23:53.999
there and Trevor pops his head out and he's like "Hey do you know what'd be great?
00:23:53.999 --> 00:23:58.339
I want to do... learn more about my vehicle." Okay
00:23:58.339 --> 00:24:01.379
there's two people that have talked to me about this in the last you
00:24:01.379 --> 00:24:06.019
know four or five months. So Trevor and I, we sat down threw out some ideas what
00:24:06.019 --> 00:24:11.179
you'd like to see. I reflected on it some more now here at the polytechnic we
00:24:11.179 --> 00:24:16.019
offer the apprenticeship through AIT we have all four years offered here. But
00:24:16.019 --> 00:24:21.339
we also offer a certificate program for students that are wanting to get into the trade,
00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:26.679
but are not able to land that first-year apprenticeship, which is always the hardest for them to get.
00:24:26.879 --> 00:24:30.539
So they can come in for the eight months, for the two semesters.
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.859
That basically gets them the first two years of schooling. And then employees
00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:39.099
are always more willing to hire those students because they do have a little bit of experience.
00:24:39.659 --> 00:24:43.019
But that's a time commitment. That's a financial commitment.
00:24:43.659 --> 00:24:48.099
We also have a lot of other programs here with our STEM project and our youth
00:24:48.099 --> 00:24:52.999
initiatives where they're bringing up high school students into getting intro
00:24:52.999 --> 00:24:57.679
to the Trades, all of that programming that we have going on here.
00:24:57.819 --> 00:25:03.719
But that's more tailored to younger students, grade 10, 11, 12, and as they come up.
00:25:03.859 --> 00:25:07.979
So I kind of viewed it as we have our apprenticeship. That's the goal.
00:25:08.179 --> 00:25:11.139
To get there, if you can't land a job, there's the...
00:25:11.861 --> 00:25:14.721
Certificate program. To get into that to get some learning there
00:25:14.721 --> 00:25:18.101
is the you know the Intro to the Trades and all
00:25:18.101 --> 00:25:21.041
the other programs what about the individual who's maybe
00:25:21.041 --> 00:25:24.241
a little further on in their career they they really enjoy
00:25:24.241 --> 00:25:29.801
the hobbies of working on their vehicle, maybe they'd like to make a career change
00:25:29.801 --> 00:25:34.461
but I don't know if I really want to right? I don't know if I want to take the
00:25:34.461 --> 00:25:38.101
two-semester commitment, I don't know if I want to take the financial commitment.
00:25:38.101 --> 00:25:42.821
So, what about if we offer this micro-credential in the evenings?
00:25:43.001 --> 00:25:46.841
So that way people that are working all day long, they can come for a couple
00:25:46.841 --> 00:25:51.161
hours a night for a number of weeks and they can dabble in it.
00:25:51.161 --> 00:25:53.341
They say, you know what, I actually really enjoy this.
00:25:54.201 --> 00:25:57.941
I will, you know, take the commitment to make a career change.
00:25:58.081 --> 00:26:02.761
We saw a gap there, saw that something could be added in there.
00:26:03.301 --> 00:26:07.741
Now, we have quite a few students that have watched Fast and the Furious and,
00:26:07.921 --> 00:26:10.361
you know, all these car shows, right?
00:26:10.541 --> 00:26:15.841
And they're working there in the cars on the scene. And it's not exactly quite like that, right?
00:26:16.001 --> 00:26:22.061
It's all nice-looking on the TV screen, but down in the nitty gritty of it...
00:26:22.301 --> 00:26:26.661
So we have students that, you know, partway through the first semester,
00:26:26.741 --> 00:26:30.181
they're like, this is not like The Fast and the Furious or Gone in 60 seconds.
00:26:30.461 --> 00:26:32.801
And then they're gone in 60 seconds, right?
00:26:33.021 --> 00:26:38.841
So if we can introduce the micro-credential, people can play with it.
00:26:39.081 --> 00:26:43.221
They can come in and say, I really like this. I want to make a career change.
00:26:43.361 --> 00:26:47.721
We had a student, my first year here was a welder, licensed welder,
00:26:47.881 --> 00:26:50.621
made good money out in the Trades, but it's not what he wanted to do.
00:26:50.821 --> 00:26:55.841
So he was in a financial position where he could make that change and he came
00:26:55.841 --> 00:26:57.761
in, but not everyone's in that position.
00:26:58.241 --> 00:27:02.221
So that's kind of where we're at with the micro-credential and where that came about.
00:27:02.461 --> 00:27:07.601
Oh, that's really neat. Yeah, you found a gap and then found a way to address
00:27:07.601 --> 00:27:09.901
that gap. It sounds almost like a sample.
00:27:10.161 --> 00:27:13.541
Yes, yeah, a little hors d'oeuvre platter for them to try out.
00:27:14.904 --> 00:27:21.364
How has that work with that or some of the other work you've done improved your
00:27:21.364 --> 00:27:26.604
teaching and learning? Well, it's definitely given me the opportunity to interact
00:27:26.604 --> 00:27:29.624
with different departments, which has helped me.
00:27:30.164 --> 00:27:34.584
Just talking the other day with another person in CTLI there,
00:27:34.604 --> 00:27:36.704
we were talking about classroom management and stuff like that.
00:27:36.924 --> 00:27:40.444
How am I going to deliver this, the classroom management aspect of it?
00:27:40.544 --> 00:27:45.324
It's gotten me out there and pushed me beyond my comfort zone to ask questions
00:27:45.324 --> 00:27:48.744
of other people and rely on other people's expertise as well, right?
00:27:49.804 --> 00:27:55.064
This process here has shown me that there are actually a lot of people that
00:27:55.064 --> 00:28:00.364
are very happy to support you and give assistance so, if people are so
00:28:00.364 --> 00:28:04.844
willing to help me I can be willing to help others. And that's what I need to
00:28:04.844 --> 00:28:08.284
be that's what I am doing I love to see people succeed.
00:28:08.764 --> 00:28:14.404
Their success is my success. Oh that's wonderful. Ryan, I'm curious — you've had
00:28:14.404 --> 00:28:18.724
kind of a journey into the teaching and learning area at SAIT.
00:28:19.064 --> 00:28:22.384
Is yours, your experience similar to Eric's?
00:28:23.004 --> 00:28:26.684
So, you know, very, very similar in a lot of ways, you know,
00:28:26.844 --> 00:28:32.484
like it's about that continual improvement piece as you're kind of going through your career.
00:28:32.624 --> 00:28:38.604
And my career has been, you know, I was teaching for 11 years in a bunch of
00:28:38.604 --> 00:28:42.164
different programs, like carpentry-related programs at SAIT.
00:28:42.564 --> 00:28:46.964
And each time you learn new pieces. So, you know, I started off teaching apprenticeship
00:28:46.964 --> 00:28:49.084
and I moved to teaching dual credits.
00:28:49.544 --> 00:28:55.264
I went into teaching carpentry for SAIT at the Calgary Correctional Centre.
00:28:56.024 --> 00:29:02.044
Very, very cool. And truthfully, I ended up creating a bunch of small sort of
00:29:02.044 --> 00:29:06.204
certificates that the offenders there could walk away with that were from SAIT.
00:29:06.964 --> 00:29:12.104
Then came back sort of during COVID, you know, a whole new teaching and learning
00:29:12.104 --> 00:29:13.584
environment there for sure.
00:29:13.584 --> 00:29:23.704
And, you know, my new role as a faculty development facilitator in our TLC is,
00:29:24.004 --> 00:29:31.404
has just, it's almost been like a natural sort of movement into there where you gain all of these,
00:29:31.684 --> 00:29:34.744
you know, insights throughout a career, whether it's, you know,
00:29:34.804 --> 00:29:37.524
working with artificial intelligence, whether it's working with,
00:29:37.704 --> 00:29:40.664
you know, creating little certificates or micro-credentials,
00:29:41.424 --> 00:29:44.304
or just how you learn how to teach better.
00:29:44.564 --> 00:29:51.344
And I've had the opportunity to really move into supporting faculty.
00:29:51.584 --> 00:29:57.924
And I support trade-specific faculty at SAIT, and it's been a very, very cool space.
00:29:58.284 --> 00:30:06.084
I think what's interesting hearing Ryan kind of talk about his journey—as a journeyman—
00:30:07.100 --> 00:30:12.500
There's, it's kind of building on the sort of the technical and extensive trade
00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:18.280
experience, but then kind of blending that over time with the teaching experience
00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:21.260
and sort of obviously reflecting, learning,
00:30:22.040 --> 00:30:24.680
adapting to different student populations.
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:29.560
But all the time, kind of that practice and knowledge around teaching and learning
00:30:29.560 --> 00:30:33.900
has evolved to the point where SAIT sees value,
00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:41.160
recognizes the value you can bring pedagogically to then share out with other instructors.
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:46.080
So there's like that scholarly teaching at its best and at its finest.
00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:52.620
And there's so many elements, kind of parts of that SoTL process there,
00:30:52.780 --> 00:30:55.400
that dissemination and sharing of experience.
00:30:55.400 --> 00:31:01.760
It may not be through kind of the publications, but you're facilitating workshops,
00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:07.040
you're developing resources for the benefit of your colleagues at SAIT.
00:31:07.040 --> 00:31:11.700
So lots of really amazing examples of kind of SoTL and scholarly teaching happening.
00:31:12.120 --> 00:31:16.840
Well, I think you can build on everything, right? Like I'm hearing this is scaffolding, right?
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:20.220
Like everything just builds on and builds on.
00:31:20.300 --> 00:31:24.340
I can tell you that four years ago when I started here, I wouldn't have thought
00:31:24.340 --> 00:31:28.440
that I would be where I'm at and participating in the projects that I'm participating in.
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:33.800
And it has been wonderful. I can actually look back through my life all the
00:31:33.800 --> 00:31:38.180
way back to when I was a teenager starting to play with motors and stuff like that.
00:31:38.320 --> 00:31:42.640
My little brother used to stand behind my left shoulder there and it would drive
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:44.800
me crazy. But mom said to be nice.
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.400
So, okay, here we go. So try and teach him and show him what I'm doing.
00:31:50.340 --> 00:31:55.940
That has now developed into where I am today. So, and hopefully I can continue
00:31:55.940 --> 00:32:03.200
on this path with this growing and developing and having a contribution to other individuals.
00:32:03.600 --> 00:32:07.800
Yeah, bridging that experience and the pedagogy, scholarly teaching. Great.
00:32:08.576 --> 00:32:14.976
I want to jump a little bit from the scholarly teaching into the research side of things.
00:32:15.216 --> 00:32:21.656
And so for both Eric and for Ryan, have you done any formal research before?
00:32:21.876 --> 00:32:24.076
And how do you view formal research?
00:32:24.676 --> 00:32:29.556
This past year I've been working on a formal research, had to go through the
00:32:29.556 --> 00:32:35.756
whole research ethics board stuff and I will say that was one of the most painful processes of my life.
00:32:36.676 --> 00:32:42.376
Did not enjoy it. You know I I kind of actually shake my head a little bit I
00:32:42.376 --> 00:32:47.736
understand if you're if you're you know taking human samples and this and that
00:32:47.736 --> 00:32:49.856
and you know like actually dangerous as things,
00:32:49.976 --> 00:32:55.456
but I just wanted to ask some questions and get some answers and be able to share those answers.
00:32:55.636 --> 00:33:00.016
And so I felt like the process was a little tedious for what I was trying to
00:33:00.016 --> 00:33:03.596
accomplish. But the idea is, is I have a podcast as well.
00:33:03.716 --> 00:33:06.756
It's specific to the fourth-year carpentry curriculum.
00:33:08.576 --> 00:33:15.456
And the whole point of the research project is to test the validity or the effectiveness
00:33:15.456 --> 00:33:22.796
of podcast resources for students as a supplemental resource for their learning.
00:33:23.016 --> 00:33:28.836
And so, you know, it's been fun. I say that very tongue-in-cheek.
00:33:28.896 --> 00:33:32.096
It's very fun interacting with the students. It's very fun collecting data.
00:33:33.036 --> 00:33:38.496
But the step by step and the, you know, the real sort of how you have to introduce,
00:33:38.676 --> 00:33:43.256
how you have to get consent, how you have to, you know, store and delete and
00:33:43.256 --> 00:33:47.856
all the pieces with the data is very, very, very tedious.
00:33:48.016 --> 00:33:54.316
But I do understand that you do have to protect information that relates to people. So I get it.
00:33:54.936 --> 00:34:00.636
Ryan, that sounds absolutely amazing as a podcast host and just a general fan of podcasts.
00:34:01.316 --> 00:34:04.516
Will we be able to provide a link to your podcast in our show notes?
00:34:05.016 --> 00:34:07.756
I would say not right now. It is
00:34:07.756 --> 00:34:11.416
the Under Construction podcast and it is currently under construction so...
00:34:11.416 --> 00:34:14.656
Yeah no it's um
00:34:14.656 --> 00:34:17.416
I have a backlog of video editing to do so that's
00:34:17.416 --> 00:34:20.216
where I'm at. Okay well you'll have to keep us up to date on
00:34:20.216 --> 00:34:25.276
that because I won't speak for everyone here — but I suspect I may speak for
00:34:25.276 --> 00:34:29.096
everyone here — that we'd be very interested to to hear it and to learn about
00:34:29.096 --> 00:34:35.016
how your research progresses with that. Yeah, absolutely. I haven't had a chance
00:34:35.016 --> 00:34:38.376
to do any like formal research or anything like that.
00:34:38.576 --> 00:34:41.356
Colleague and friend of mine here at the polytechnic, Josh Hill,
00:34:41.516 --> 00:34:47.156
he has with the STEM project and he and I are quite close with each other.
00:34:47.336 --> 00:34:48.996
We discuss this stuff all the time.
00:34:49.356 --> 00:34:54.596
So he's shared with me some of his research as far as how STEM and...
00:34:55.478 --> 00:34:58.158
Trades-minded individuals learn, and the way
00:34:58.158 --> 00:35:01.338
that they they develop their skills and stuff like that. And he
00:35:01.338 --> 00:35:04.178
actually he's got his paper
00:35:04.178 --> 00:35:07.738
getting published here he said it's in the Canadian Journal
00:35:07.738 --> 00:35:10.518
of Educational and Society Studies and that'll be coming out
00:35:10.518 --> 00:35:13.378
in May. So even though it's not
00:35:13.378 --> 00:35:17.118
me personally doing the formal research having having
00:35:17.118 --> 00:35:20.118
discussed with him about it, it's very exciting.
00:35:20.118 --> 00:35:22.998
Yeah I really really enjoy what he's done
00:35:22.998 --> 00:35:26.718
with that study and can't wait to actually read it so. Does that,
00:35:26.718 --> 00:35:29.538
does that spark an interest in trying it out
00:35:29.538 --> 00:35:32.418
yourself? Yeah it does. And honestly, even preparing for
00:35:32.418 --> 00:35:35.238
this podcast and stuff like this after that first conversation that
00:35:35.238 --> 00:35:37.998
we had it has given me the opportunity to to do
00:35:37.998 --> 00:35:42.538
more research kind of okay I got 10 minutes here so instead of you know going
00:35:42.538 --> 00:35:46.758
through stuff that I already know about or you know the dreaded social media
00:35:46.758 --> 00:35:53.318
hole, let's let's do some research you know about things that I could do to improve
00:35:53.318 --> 00:35:56.318
of the class or, you know, new technologies and things like that.
00:35:56.558 --> 00:36:01.658
So yeah, it has definitely inspired me and got me excited for it.
00:36:02.098 --> 00:36:05.458
Oh, well, it'd be interesting to see what you end up diving into.
00:36:06.398 --> 00:36:08.638
I would, I just like to add to that, that.
00:36:09.468 --> 00:36:17.688
That's where I see real opportunity for people who have to be involved in actual
00:36:17.688 --> 00:36:21.868
SoTL research, you know, people who are involved in degree programs and stuff like that.
00:36:22.088 --> 00:36:26.348
You know, there's a lot of research that goes on and into, for example,
00:36:26.488 --> 00:36:28.548
applied learning, which is what the Trades do.
00:36:28.868 --> 00:36:33.808
And so little of the research that's done is actually applied in our space.
00:36:34.148 --> 00:36:38.068
So it would be really cool to have more of that collaboration so we can grow
00:36:38.068 --> 00:36:40.848
the body of research within the Trades.
00:36:41.208 --> 00:36:46.668
Yeah, Josh has been a actually a really good liaison between Trades and research
00:36:46.668 --> 00:36:50.948
and stuff like that, because he is a licensed electrician.
00:36:51.048 --> 00:36:55.508
When I started here, he was teaching the electrician — can't remember what year it was,
00:36:55.668 --> 00:36:56.948
but he was teaching in the apprenticeship.
00:36:57.188 --> 00:37:00.488
And then he was working on his master's degree in psychology.
00:37:00.828 --> 00:37:05.888
So part of his master's, you know, he he's had to do research and then he's
00:37:05.888 --> 00:37:09.728
also done this research for so for the STEM so he is quite,
00:37:10.208 --> 00:37:13.048
He's quite good at it. Yeah I also want to just comment on
00:37:13.048 --> 00:37:15.948
like the the the value of what you're describing before like
00:37:15.948 --> 00:37:19.408
I really appreciated your your kind of initial definition of of SoTL
00:37:19.408 --> 00:37:22.228
or of like just seeing something
00:37:22.228 --> 00:37:25.548
like a need and trying to to do that thing and I think just that
00:37:25.548 --> 00:37:28.568
more informal approach is so valuable and
00:37:28.568 --> 00:37:31.308
it's often like a much more rapid process where you're saying okay I
00:37:31.308 --> 00:37:34.048
want to get students to reflect on what they're learning and so you tried
00:37:34.048 --> 00:37:36.628
okay well we'll try doing at the end of class okay that's not working I'll try doing at the
00:37:36.628 --> 00:37:39.868
start of class we'll try doing it this way and that can
00:37:39.868 --> 00:37:42.728
be just a really effective way of figuring out what works
00:37:42.728 --> 00:37:45.788
in your context that can be more you know in certain cases can be more effective
00:37:45.788 --> 00:37:50.508
than reading a paper about this is what people say about this but in your specific
00:37:50.508 --> 00:37:53.608
context like you're saying there's not as much research about how does Trades
00:37:53.608 --> 00:37:56.528
specifically... how does this work in a Trades classroom because it's so different
00:37:56.528 --> 00:38:00.688
from a from like a formal academic classroom and stuff like that so just doing
00:38:00.688 --> 00:38:02.488
that type of stuff and being able to find like this is
00:38:02.868 --> 00:38:06.128
what I found worked for my class and sharing at these, you know,
00:38:06.228 --> 00:38:09.248
like kind of local conferences and stuff like that, not necessarily like a published research.
00:38:09.388 --> 00:38:13.828
There's so much value in that more informal scholarship as well.
00:38:14.636 --> 00:38:17.636
Like you were saying about walking out of the lunchroom and people going,
00:38:17.756 --> 00:38:19.516
"Oh, my goodness, does that guy ever stop?"
00:38:21.116 --> 00:38:25.076
Sometimes I ask that about myself. I'm like, oh, jeepers, why don't I just slow down for a second?
00:38:25.216 --> 00:38:29.316
But, you know, if you want to find out more, you're going to want to find out more.
00:38:30.196 --> 00:38:35.096
I think what's interesting, too, is the Trades are constantly evolving.
00:38:35.456 --> 00:38:41.796
New technologies, new engines, new techniques for insulation and new materials.
00:38:41.796 --> 00:38:48.776
It's just a part of your responsibilities as an instructor to stay up to date
00:38:48.776 --> 00:38:55.116
on current requirements, codes, innovations, safety standards.
00:38:55.396 --> 00:38:59.696
And again, scholarly teaching, I think really supports that because it's promoting
00:38:59.696 --> 00:39:05.596
and encouraging that continual learning and kind of improvements that reflective
00:39:05.596 --> 00:39:08.476
practice, try something new, How is this going to work?
00:39:09.076 --> 00:39:13.256
And that's just kind of, to me, the two kind of are embedded.
00:39:13.736 --> 00:39:20.296
And it just seems like a really great discipline in which scholarly teaching can thrive.
00:39:21.276 --> 00:39:27.296
Jaddon, can you speak to where action research might sit in what you've heard
00:39:27.296 --> 00:39:30.736
in the discussion? I think the action research piece, you know,
00:39:30.736 --> 00:39:33.656
it's very much kind of an individual focus.
00:39:34.056 --> 00:39:39.076
So Eric's given a couple examples of trying out what works for him,
00:39:39.276 --> 00:39:41.296
for his class and his students.
00:39:41.296 --> 00:39:48.096
So it's that sort of small-scale iterative process of trying out a new innovation
00:39:48.096 --> 00:39:52.856
in teaching or a new tool in the classroom, assessing how that works,
00:39:53.076 --> 00:39:56.256
making some adjustments, and then trying it again.
00:39:56.256 --> 00:40:00.116
So it's that cyclical process, continual improvement throughout.
00:40:00.396 --> 00:40:05.056
With action research as well, though, it's like, okay, this tool worked really well.
00:40:05.256 --> 00:40:09.156
There's going to be some sharing or disseminating of that knowledge and experience
00:40:09.156 --> 00:40:13.896
with colleagues, but maybe not on such a large scale as I'm going to publish
00:40:13.896 --> 00:40:16.196
this in a journal or present at a conference.
00:40:16.196 --> 00:40:21.536
But certainly with colleagues, within in-house workshops, that's where action
00:40:21.536 --> 00:40:27.316
research can kind of uh disseminate that new knowledge. So that's where you're
00:40:27.316 --> 00:40:30.396
sitting around the lunchroom or coffee break and discussing — "Hey, I tried
00:40:30.396 --> 00:40:31.956
this and it actually worked really good." And
00:40:32.576 --> 00:40:37.096
just sharing that casually around the water cooler. Yeah and I think a lot of
00:40:37.096 --> 00:40:43.116
CTLIs across post-secondaries recognize the value of that type of reflective,
00:40:43.116 --> 00:40:47.056
kind of professional development and they're there to support you,
00:40:47.416 --> 00:40:51.116
support faculty who may be new to research and be like, "Ethics?
00:40:51.336 --> 00:40:53.436
Eek, do I need this or not?"
00:40:53.576 --> 00:40:57.496
But kind of dipping a toe into some classroom research.
00:40:58.540 --> 00:41:01.640
Yeah, I think there's also the value from action research of having people who
00:41:01.640 --> 00:41:02.420
are on the ground, right?
00:41:02.720 --> 00:41:06.140
Either you are the person that's on the ground or you're partnering with someone
00:41:06.140 --> 00:41:10.680
who's on the ground to be trying these things in a real context and not like
00:41:10.680 --> 00:41:11.800
in a laboratory-type setting.
00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:14.680
Because you know like you're saying you can you could try one thing that's
00:41:14.680 --> 00:41:17.660
like oh you know it's good to do reflections but then it just did not
00:41:17.660 --> 00:41:21.440
work in your context and so yeah the like the importance of actually having
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:26.900
someone who's who's in the the in the action, right? That's that's right there
00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:29.840
they can kind of test when something is like oh you know what that did not work
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:34.880
at all for these very real practical reasons. And I think like I look at — I used
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:36.940
Kahoot a lot, I still use Kahoot quite a bit.
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.740
That worked really well last year and the year before. This year,
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:45.720
not as well. So am I going to throw that out?
00:41:46.100 --> 00:41:51.880
Absolutely not. I'm going to try it again next year. If it works, great.
00:41:52.080 --> 00:41:58.520
If it doesn't, then I will adapt then. So don't get too discouraged if something
00:41:58.520 --> 00:42:01.380
that was working doesn't work quite as well.
00:42:01.900 --> 00:42:09.520
Try it again, readjust, move on. What are your thoughts on calling yourself
00:42:09.520 --> 00:42:14.480
a researcher or doing sort of research work or scholarly activity?
00:42:14.900 --> 00:42:19.700
Do you think of yourself that way? Is it important to label it as that?
00:42:19.700 --> 00:42:23.640
The action research that everybody's been talking about, that sort of iterative
00:42:23.640 --> 00:42:30.080
process of improvements and trying things and maybe failing and sharing it with your colleagues.
00:42:31.420 --> 00:42:36.660
If that's... that's what's happening in all of our classrooms.
00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:41.420
And so that technically makes us all researchers, but we probably don't call ourselves that.
00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:47.140
In fact, I would never have called myself a researcher until I actually got
00:42:47.140 --> 00:42:49.220
involved in formal research. And
00:42:49.220 --> 00:42:53.900
then I do now only because I had to go through all the steps and hoops.
00:42:54.900 --> 00:42:59.800
But yeah, I see that happening everywhere that I look.
00:43:00.060 --> 00:43:03.480
And none of us are calling ourselves researchers necessarily.
00:43:04.780 --> 00:43:09.060
I'm right there with you, Ryan. I never would have called myself a researcher on things.
00:43:09.380 --> 00:43:14.080
Just somebody who wants things to be the best that they can be.
00:43:14.700 --> 00:43:18.780
So yeah, putting a label on it, I'm a very informal kind of individual.
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.120
I don't like the the accolades of, "Oh you
00:43:22.120 --> 00:43:25.220
did the research on this — congratulations!" No I just, I'm just
00:43:25.220 --> 00:43:28.620
doing things because I want to see them improve. So putting
00:43:28.620 --> 00:43:31.460
a label on it is still challenging for
00:43:31.460 --> 00:43:36.420
me, but you're absolutely right. That is what we're doing every day. Yep we are
00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:40.700
researchers. Yeah I guess to me it's more of like a I guess maybe I see it more
00:43:40.700 --> 00:43:44.900
as like a mindset of yeah I wouldn't have called myself a researcher as a teacher
00:43:44.900 --> 00:43:48.680
but at the same time I was in that same mindset of like, I want to make this
00:43:48.680 --> 00:43:50.240
better. I want to try new things. I want to do this.
00:43:50.900 --> 00:43:52.940
And so just by...
00:43:53.517 --> 00:43:56.117
Doing that constantly, I guess, you know, we would have to do these professional
00:43:56.117 --> 00:43:58.277
growth plans of like, what are you going to be doing to try and improve?
00:43:58.397 --> 00:44:01.177
And I just felt like, well, everything I'm doing is a professional growth plan,
00:44:01.177 --> 00:44:03.697
you know? Like every, when you're, when you kind of have that mindset,
00:44:03.697 --> 00:44:05.277
if I want to learn, I want to try new things.
00:44:06.237 --> 00:44:08.517
You're, you're kind of participating in that process constantly,
00:44:08.517 --> 00:44:12.277
but you can also be just because you're a teacher doesn't mean you're being reflective.
00:44:12.317 --> 00:44:14.717
It doesn't mean you're trying new things, but there's so much value,
00:44:14.737 --> 00:44:19.297
I think in, in the experience of teachers who are actively reflecting,
00:44:19.417 --> 00:44:22.977
trying these different things that can be really hard to capture in like a more
00:44:22.977 --> 00:44:26.917
formal, rigorous academic kind of study.
00:44:27.177 --> 00:44:33.957
I just wanted to add in terms of as educators, we reflect on our practice to continually improve.
00:44:35.037 --> 00:44:40.737
One piece that I feel we've kind of not spoken too much about is we have talked
00:44:40.737 --> 00:44:43.877
a lot about kind of the student experience at the polytechnic.
00:44:44.037 --> 00:44:48.097
One of our imperatives is providing an exceptional student experience.
00:44:48.717 --> 00:44:54.237
And I think it's important to recognize that your students really are partners
00:44:54.237 --> 00:44:56.517
in that kind of research journey with you.
00:44:56.737 --> 00:45:02.537
So whether it's a Kahoot or the exit slips, they're engaged,
00:45:02.677 --> 00:45:06.717
they're participating in that sort of that research little study,
00:45:06.897 --> 00:45:09.037
informal study that you're doing with your students.
00:45:09.177 --> 00:45:15.217
The feedback they're giving you is letting you know whether this is working or not.
00:45:15.377 --> 00:45:18.837
So they are players and they are partners in that research process
00:45:18.837 --> 00:45:21.977
and I think you can look at different levels of engagement
00:45:21.977 --> 00:45:24.797
in which you want students to be a part of that but it's
00:45:24.797 --> 00:45:30.677
I think it's a really important learning opportunity for your students as well
00:45:30.677 --> 00:45:36.477
and it can empower them as part of that kind of learning journey in your class.
00:45:36.477 --> 00:45:40.757
How can we make this lesson better? Getting feedback, getting input from them
00:45:40.757 --> 00:45:43.177
as well is a really, a real key piece of that...
00:45:43.849 --> 00:45:45.209
that improvement that we're all
00:45:45.209 --> 00:45:49.829
seeking in the classroom. I think there's something really powerful there,
00:45:49.849 --> 00:45:55.109
because if we are, if we are getting feedback from our students and we are demonstrating
00:45:55.109 --> 00:45:59.689
that we are using that feedback from our students, we're creating that culture
00:45:59.689 --> 00:46:04.549
that that feedback actually matters and, and their voice does have...
00:46:05.449 --> 00:46:06.749
Power to change things.
00:46:06.749 --> 00:46:10.489
And if you're able to constantly demonstrate that it, it causes,
00:46:10.489 --> 00:46:15.749
it causes more feedback to come and better feedback to come and it will shape
00:46:15.749 --> 00:46:16.949
your teaching practice for sure.
00:46:17.509 --> 00:46:21.709
Yeah, I agree with that 100%. If the student feels, you know,
00:46:22.009 --> 00:46:27.009
validated in their opinion, I never really thought about this until just you were saying this.
00:46:27.349 --> 00:46:31.729
I've asked students, I'm like, hey, can you, you know, as you're wiring up this
00:46:31.729 --> 00:46:34.769
window motor to demonstrate how it works outside of the vehicle,
00:46:34.929 --> 00:46:39.009
I said, if you do a good job, I'll include that in my classroom.
00:46:39.349 --> 00:46:42.649
And so that got them excited to know that a part of them and
00:46:42.649 --> 00:46:45.669
a part of their experience here is going to live on here
00:46:45.669 --> 00:46:49.449
in other people's learning. So if I
00:46:49.449 --> 00:46:52.329
were to you know make a conscious effort to let the
00:46:52.329 --> 00:46:56.169
students know at the beginning of the year you guys are going to help me grow
00:46:56.169 --> 00:47:02.629
this program to make others better in the future that will probably I would
00:47:02.629 --> 00:47:06.869
like to hypothesize that that's going to make them better. And right now there's
00:47:06.869 --> 00:47:10.909
there's a research aspect right? So I can go into the fall semester...
00:47:11.449 --> 00:47:17.929
Okay, I'm going to watch to see how these students receive the invitation to
00:47:17.929 --> 00:47:21.889
grow and to be part of my research and then see where we go at the end of the year.
00:47:22.669 --> 00:47:24.629
There's a SoTL study. There you go!
00:47:25.809 --> 00:47:31.729
So on that note, Jaddon, if someone wants to do as Ryan has done and kind of
00:47:31.729 --> 00:47:36.369
take that next step from scholarly teaching, but to move into kind of research,
00:47:36.369 --> 00:47:39.509
Are there some suggestions to make it
00:47:40.302 --> 00:47:44.622
a little less painful? To go through those processes, especially for the first time?
00:47:44.902 --> 00:47:48.702
I would start by reaching out to your Centre for Teaching and Learning.
00:47:48.902 --> 00:47:56.082
They have a team there with experience that can support faculty with the research journey,
00:47:56.262 --> 00:48:02.002
whether they want to dive into a full SoTL-type study or just kind of follow
00:48:02.002 --> 00:48:05.682
more of a systematic action research process.
00:48:05.862 --> 00:48:10.222
Either way, there's folks there that can support. And then, you know,
00:48:10.482 --> 00:48:17.582
there's a plethora of other resources online that can kind of give faculty some
00:48:17.582 --> 00:48:20.142
basic information about SoTL.
00:48:20.562 --> 00:48:25.982
There are some, you know, a SoTL study has certain kind of requirements you're going to be doing.
00:48:26.202 --> 00:48:29.542
One, it has to be grounded in kind of student learning.
00:48:29.722 --> 00:48:33.562
There needs to be, it needs to be done in partnership with students.
00:48:33.702 --> 00:48:37.662
So what Eric was just talking about, there's the partnership element.
00:48:37.662 --> 00:48:41.262
It does need to be methodologically sound.
00:48:41.582 --> 00:48:48.082
There needs to be a research method and some ethics approvals,
00:48:48.082 --> 00:48:50.942
and you would have to go through your ethics research board.
00:48:50.942 --> 00:48:56.562
So there are the wonderful steps that Ryan was talking about and having such
00:48:56.562 --> 00:48:58.762
a positive experience going through.
00:48:59.082 --> 00:49:03.882
And there's also an expectation that they're going to share that resource and
00:49:03.882 --> 00:49:09.542
that research and that new knowledge publicly, be it as an open education resource
00:49:09.542 --> 00:49:13.682
presenting at a conference or some type of a publication.
00:49:14.702 --> 00:49:16.802
And Ryan, do you have advice for
00:49:16.802 --> 00:49:19.662
others who would want to follow in your footsteps in doing that research?
00:49:19.742 --> 00:49:23.882
Or what has helped you? Find somebody who has done it before.
00:49:24.322 --> 00:49:31.042
So I, I leaned heavily on somebody I knew had been involved in research,
00:49:31.042 --> 00:49:35.802
has a good knowledge of what the research ethics board is looking for,
00:49:35.802 --> 00:49:44.162
and was able to sort of shape my initial application such that it wouldn't be
00:49:44.162 --> 00:49:48.422
a huge sort of rework when it came back to me with changes.
00:49:48.662 --> 00:49:54.822
And so really the best thing that I think is get that person, find that person.
00:49:55.082 --> 00:49:59.722
And, you know, SAIT has people who do that. I'm sure Lethbridge Poly does too.
00:50:00.162 --> 00:50:05.342
Great. Thank you. That's wonderful advice. I'm curious to know what is next
00:50:05.342 --> 00:50:10.222
for both Eric and Ryan. You're both really busy innovators.
00:50:10.402 --> 00:50:13.822
So I'm curious what projects you have coming up on the horizon?
00:50:15.082 --> 00:50:20.842
Well, just yesterday I was approached about doing a motorcycle maintenance course. So...
00:50:21.370 --> 00:50:23.710
We'll see where that goes. I got a meeting at two o'clock on that one.
00:50:23.930 --> 00:50:30.170
So, but no, with the curriculum changes in the Alberta apprenticeship for first
00:50:30.170 --> 00:50:34.010
and second year in the automotive trade, we have new modules coming out.
00:50:34.170 --> 00:50:40.090
We have introduced air conditioning, identification, recovery into first year
00:50:40.090 --> 00:50:41.430
where it used to be in fourth year.
00:50:41.610 --> 00:50:46.710
But in our certificate program here, we're actually doing all of air conditioning.
00:50:46.710 --> 00:50:54.370
So I need to develop and get some labs going and get some lesson plans going and things like that.
00:50:54.630 --> 00:50:57.350
Luckily, I have, like you're saying, with the research part of it,
00:50:57.430 --> 00:51:01.430
I do have people to lean on and ask questions and give me a hand.
00:51:01.590 --> 00:51:06.290
But you can bet that I'm probably going to be putting a thing or two into ChatGPT
00:51:06.290 --> 00:51:09.630
and see what kind of ideas they can give me.
00:51:10.490 --> 00:51:17.690
Sounds exciting. I love that. So it's interesting how doing these things and,
00:51:17.690 --> 00:51:21.190
you know, like micro-credentials in your case, Eric,
00:51:21.390 --> 00:51:27.850
or creating a guide or doing, you know, research on podcasting and the podcast itself.
00:51:27.990 --> 00:51:33.330
It's amazing how stuff like that, activities like that, end up sort of putting
00:51:33.330 --> 00:51:36.750
you in places that you might not have necessarily been in.
00:51:37.270 --> 00:51:42.050
So, you know, right now I'm working at sort of updating my guide a little bit with a few things.
00:51:42.630 --> 00:51:45.850
But also, I have about a year of research to do ahead of me.
00:51:46.310 --> 00:51:50.790
And on top of that, you know, like I was kind of hinting at,
00:51:50.950 --> 00:51:58.330
the AI guide has set me onto a path that has allowed me to sort of work and continue to work.
00:51:58.450 --> 00:52:03.690
And we're trying to figure out how to shape AI-use at SAIT right now.
00:52:03.810 --> 00:52:08.210
And so that's going to be the big sort of push over the next little bit for me, I think.
00:52:08.850 --> 00:52:15.130
Ryan, is there, you know, any way to access that? How do I personally get my hands on that guide?
00:52:16.096 --> 00:52:20.236
Craig has it. Oh, well, perfect. Is it posted on your website, Ryan?
00:52:20.556 --> 00:52:26.856
It's posted on our, I don't, I can't really guide you to a website that doesn't exist anymore, really.
00:52:27.276 --> 00:52:32.716
The old, so we used to be CADI, which is the Centre for Academic Development and Innovation.
00:52:35.096 --> 00:52:37.416
But realistically, I can probably
00:52:37.416 --> 00:52:41.376
get it to a few key people at Lethbridge Poly that get it out to you.
00:52:41.696 --> 00:52:45.176
That would be great. Yeah, because I know myself and my team teacher,
00:52:45.316 --> 00:52:49.676
both of us have, you know, looked at it, dabbled with it, but it'd be great to have a guide.
00:52:50.296 --> 00:52:54.696
Absolutely. Thanks. We're always interested in hearing firsthand stories,
00:52:54.696 --> 00:52:59.796
so are there any stories that you can share of, you know, sort of firsthand
00:52:59.796 --> 00:53:05.056
impact, some of the impact that what you've done has had on a learner or learners?
00:53:06.016 --> 00:53:11.896
Yeah. So one of the things that we saw coming up about a year ago,
00:53:12.136 --> 00:53:15.896
we were going to have some serious growth in the Trades.
00:53:16.196 --> 00:53:24.776
So we had 52, I think, new faculty starts this year in our Trades programs.
00:53:25.476 --> 00:53:31.256
And myself and one of my colleagues created a new instructor coaching program.
00:53:31.256 --> 00:53:37.156
So the idea is everything that we wanted, we wish we would have known when we
00:53:37.156 --> 00:53:42.236
started teaching, we wanted to provide that to them in sort of small chunks
00:53:42.236 --> 00:53:44.216
over the course of about six months,
00:53:44.556 --> 00:53:46.316
12 sessions, two hours a piece.
00:53:47.136 --> 00:53:51.976
And in a real sort of coaching format where we're guiding a discussion,
00:53:51.976 --> 00:53:57.176
we're not standing in front of anybody talking, but we wanted them to sort of
00:53:57.176 --> 00:54:01.396
talk about AI. We wanted them to talk about Bright Space, which is our learning management system.
00:54:01.616 --> 00:54:06.316
We wanted them to explore other educational technologies.
00:54:07.076 --> 00:54:11.216
We wanted them to explore classroom management and neurodivergent students and
00:54:11.216 --> 00:54:12.356
the whole kitten caboodle.
00:54:13.236 --> 00:54:18.756
And so, you know, a couple of those faculty that have started and,
00:54:18.816 --> 00:54:24.756
you know, I kind of hinted at the faculty member that was new and using AI.
00:54:24.756 --> 00:54:30.596
And I just I'm I'm incredibly optimistic for the group who started because they're
00:54:30.596 --> 00:54:34.816
really starting off on the right foot with, you know, getting help from AI.
00:54:35.136 --> 00:54:38.856
They know how to use our learning management system. We've talked about and
00:54:38.856 --> 00:54:45.076
we've constantly talked about classroom management and and UDL and neurodivergent
00:54:45.076 --> 00:54:49.436
students and EAL students and how we can make our classrooms better for them.
00:54:49.436 --> 00:54:54.176
And so, you know, seeing a few of those people just really blossom at a very,
00:54:54.356 --> 00:54:57.056
very early point in their career has been extremely rewarding.
00:54:57.911 --> 00:55:01.951
Yeah, that's very exciting. And that's a big group of faculty. That's fantastic.
00:55:02.351 --> 00:55:05.811
And we're doing them in small groups. So it's a lot of small groups,
00:55:06.071 --> 00:55:13.091
but it's, you know, five to seven people at a time having a very sort of intimate,
00:55:13.091 --> 00:55:16.651
it's not really the best word, but that's the word I'm going to use, sort of setting.
00:55:17.171 --> 00:55:20.971
Yeah, it sounds like you would have very rich discussion. I might take mine
00:55:20.971 --> 00:55:23.371
a little bit different instead of the instructor side of it,
00:55:23.491 --> 00:55:27.271
the learner side of it, Just trying to think of, you know, what have I seen
00:55:27.271 --> 00:55:31.791
in the last four years as far as, you know, including students.
00:55:32.071 --> 00:55:36.331
And now I'm realizing that having the students be part of my,
00:55:36.491 --> 00:55:39.371
you know, my research, I'd mentioned the window wiper motor.
00:55:40.551 --> 00:55:44.631
That student that I had do that, actually, the year before the student came
00:55:44.631 --> 00:55:46.871
in, she wanted to do the student for the day.
00:55:47.271 --> 00:55:50.871
Women in the Trades is a little, you know, it's, we're getting more and more
00:55:50.871 --> 00:55:54.591
in. And she was a very petite individual, was nervous that she wasn't going
00:55:54.591 --> 00:55:56.071
to have the physical stature to do it.
00:55:56.171 --> 00:56:01.111
So came in for the student for the day program, signed up, really loved it,
00:56:01.371 --> 00:56:03.491
signed up, came in, did the whole program.
00:56:03.991 --> 00:56:09.191
With that student there, I was able to, you know, engage her to say,
00:56:09.311 --> 00:56:13.571
OK, you're building this window wiper motor, make it nice.
00:56:13.851 --> 00:56:15.691
And I'll include that in the classroom.
00:56:16.311 --> 00:56:19.451
She really enjoyed electrical really grasped it
00:56:19.451 --> 00:56:22.151
really really well which is always exciting for me because that's one
00:56:22.151 --> 00:56:25.131
of my favorite topics. The lab book
00:56:25.131 --> 00:56:30.831
that I had there it was an iteration of other instructors lab books that I've
00:56:30.831 --> 00:56:34.871
changed and tweaked and and afterwards she came to me she's like, "You know it'd
00:56:34.871 --> 00:56:39.371
be great if instead of just going straight into the calculations portion of
00:56:39.371 --> 00:56:42.311
circuits if we could have practice pages."
00:56:43.112 --> 00:56:45.792
Well, that's perfect. You know, there's, there's the suggestion there.
00:56:46.192 --> 00:56:49.232
So I've, I implemented that into this year's lab book.
00:56:49.312 --> 00:56:51.972
So now they go through, they learn about the circuit series,
00:56:52.132 --> 00:56:56.852
then they do calculations for the series, and then they go in and they do the one that's for marks.
00:56:57.232 --> 00:57:01.292
So with that student's suggestions, I was able to ask any other,
00:57:01.532 --> 00:57:04.492
you know, what do you suggest? What would you like to see?
00:57:04.632 --> 00:57:07.832
And then honestly taking that in and not just being, you know what,
00:57:07.852 --> 00:57:09.132
I'm the instructor, I'm smarter than you.
00:57:09.332 --> 00:57:13.232
No, because they're trying to work through and read through.
00:57:13.332 --> 00:57:16.932
I know what they want, but sometimes maybe my language isn't clear in that lab book.
00:57:17.372 --> 00:57:20.932
And so to rely on my students to get a little bit more clarification.
00:57:21.532 --> 00:57:27.752
This student is now sitting part of the Alberta Youth Apprenticeship Initiative.
00:57:27.752 --> 00:57:29.532
I can't remember the exact title to it.
00:57:29.792 --> 00:57:37.792
So it's been great to see a student go from, I don't know if I can physically do this career path —
00:57:37.932 --> 00:57:43.752
I really like this — to now I'm working with the minister of advanced education.
00:57:44.172 --> 00:57:49.172
You know, she's met her a few times and worked with her. So I would say that's a bit of a success story.
00:57:49.312 --> 00:57:52.952
I know she'd mentioned something about meeting somebody from Toronto as well
00:57:52.952 --> 00:57:54.832
on the federal side of things. Amazing.
00:57:55.092 --> 00:57:58.312
So I'm curious to see where that goes because that to
00:57:58.312 --> 00:58:01.772
me I would say that's one of those impactful stories
00:58:01.772 --> 00:58:05.272
and it helped me develop my
00:58:05.272 --> 00:58:08.672
course better by having student input. Oh what
00:58:08.672 --> 00:58:14.292
an amazing journey. Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to jump in Ryan's comment about or
00:58:14.292 --> 00:58:18.412
the story about how they have the new instructor orientation program that's
00:58:18.412 --> 00:58:23.872
over six months to me what kind of jumped out was... that's a great example
00:58:23.872 --> 00:58:25.292
of scholarly teaching again,
00:58:25.532 --> 00:58:29.632
but sort of like a Community of Practice where you have new instructors that
00:58:29.632 --> 00:58:31.192
are coming together regularly,
00:58:31.472 --> 00:58:35.952
talking about the challenges they're facing, talking about what's working, what's not,
00:58:36.352 --> 00:58:40.772
and likely sharing best practices, sharing new ideas.
00:58:41.032 --> 00:58:45.672
So that sort of cross-fertilization of knowledge and experience.
00:58:46.677 --> 00:58:53.837
Great example, again. Is there a unique perspective that you bring to your teaching
00:58:53.837 --> 00:58:56.937
coming from the Trades background?
00:58:57.777 --> 00:59:05.057
I alluded to sort of my unique experience in being a mechanic for a private
00:59:05.057 --> 00:59:07.517
business in town, in Lethbridge, here.
00:59:07.637 --> 00:59:13.677
And then that developed into the customized camper van building, right?
00:59:13.677 --> 00:59:16.617
So I didn't have any lab book or sorry any
00:59:16.617 --> 00:59:19.277
(I'm stuck on lab books) I didn't have any workshop manuals or
00:59:19.277 --> 00:59:22.197
things like that we were doing four-wheel drive
00:59:22.197 --> 00:59:25.237
conversions on you know passenger vans we
00:59:25.237 --> 00:59:28.477
were building interiors wiring all of
00:59:28.477 --> 00:59:31.177
that stuff I was figuring it out myself so it really gave me
00:59:31.177 --> 00:59:34.997
the opportunity like I said to be creative. To discover.
00:59:34.997 --> 00:59:37.817
Well that didn't work and let's try something else
00:59:37.817 --> 00:59:41.017
here. And so my personal background on
00:59:41.017 --> 00:59:44.137
this of is one of discovery because I
00:59:44.137 --> 00:59:47.317
worked at a location where I got to explore
00:59:47.317 --> 00:59:51.357
and I got to experiment. So that
00:59:51.357 --> 00:59:54.997
would be I would say it would be my personal background on that. Okay, that's
00:59:54.997 --> 00:59:59.737
amazing yeah so you've brought that to your teaching (Yeah.) pedagogy. Yep, yep. I
00:59:59.737 --> 01:00:06.837
would say that first the way that Trades people are taught and the way that
01:00:06.837 --> 01:00:09.757
we tend to learn is very relational.
01:00:10.277 --> 01:00:15.117
And so, you know, you're learning from a journey person or you're learning from,
01:00:15.337 --> 01:00:16.697
you know, an instructor.
01:00:17.077 --> 01:00:22.317
And so there's this idea of sharing knowledge and experience that exists within
01:00:22.317 --> 01:00:24.517
the Trades that I think is very, very cool.
01:00:24.937 --> 01:00:33.897
The other part that I sort of see a lot of is that Trades people are big problem solvers.
01:00:33.897 --> 01:00:40.337
We go in and fix stuff or we go in to create something new to solve a problem.
01:00:40.637 --> 01:00:44.557
And so, you know, when you think about, you know, we talked about action research,
01:00:44.557 --> 01:00:48.657
that's about sort of constantly problem solving, seeing something,
01:00:49.137 --> 01:00:54.717
trying something, changing it, moving on, sharing that, the relational side.
01:00:54.717 --> 01:01:00.577
And that I think is what I see the most of in our Trades instructors here at
01:01:00.577 --> 01:01:05.977
SAIT and what we all sort of as Trades people bring to education.
01:01:06.397 --> 01:01:10.457
Thank you, Ryan. Yeah, that's really a fascinating perspective.
01:01:10.917 --> 01:01:13.097
I think what's exciting again is,
01:01:14.071 --> 01:01:17.831
It's happening. It's happening every day. It's just kind of organically happening
01:01:17.831 --> 01:01:19.851
in your classrooms and Trades.
01:01:20.031 --> 01:01:23.331
And I just think as someone working in a CTLI...
01:01:24.431 --> 01:01:31.691
I'd like to help promote that or help people recognize what it is they're doing
01:01:31.691 --> 01:01:36.851
and kind of celebrate the value of kind of engaging in scholarly research.
01:01:37.231 --> 01:01:41.591
Action research, and so on and recognize, "Hey, we do this a lot.
01:01:41.731 --> 01:01:46.171
We're pretty damn good at it." And as someone who has, you know,
01:01:46.211 --> 01:01:49.511
my four years here, CTLI is my second home.
01:01:49.731 --> 01:01:54.491
Come up there, give you guys a hard time, but you guys have always been so helpful
01:01:54.491 --> 01:01:58.591
helping me, you know, through any questions, any problems that I've had,
01:01:58.731 --> 01:02:00.231
giving me new ideas that work with me.
01:02:00.351 --> 01:02:04.671
So I just want to thank you from myself and, you know, everyone that I work
01:02:04.671 --> 01:02:05.911
with who's utilized you.
01:02:05.911 --> 01:02:10.951
Yeah, I'll just say too that the, I think the, not just the Trade instructor's
01:02:10.951 --> 01:02:14.531
perspective, but also just the way that Trades are taught, I think lends itself
01:02:14.531 --> 01:02:17.691
so well to like really great teaching practices.
01:02:18.031 --> 01:02:21.191
A few weeks ago on the podcast, we were talking about how, you know,
01:02:21.311 --> 01:02:25.411
how much effort we had to put in to make an online course more relational or more
01:02:25.411 --> 01:02:27.451
like personal and that sort of thing.
01:02:27.451 --> 01:02:30.571
And I think, Ryan, like you're saying, Trades, I think, very naturally,
01:02:30.811 --> 01:02:34.311
you're teaching hands-on learning in a small group setting where,
01:02:34.311 --> 01:02:41.031
you know, it lends itself so well to these really wonderful teaching practices
01:02:41.031 --> 01:02:43.171
where you get to know your students very well.
01:02:43.371 --> 01:02:45.651
It's not teaching in a lecture hall with 100 people.
01:02:45.891 --> 01:02:48.911
It's not going through slides for hours and hours.
01:02:49.051 --> 01:02:52.911
You're experiencing the work that you're doing. So I think there's like a lot
01:02:52.911 --> 01:02:57.071
that we can learn from Trades instruction and what is working well there.
01:02:57.071 --> 01:03:00.631
Because I think in a lot of ways, it is the thing that other classrooms are
01:03:00.631 --> 01:03:02.831
trying to aspire to, but it's difficult to get there.
01:03:03.031 --> 01:03:05.731
It's easy to make the connection, the real-world connection in the Trades,
01:03:05.851 --> 01:03:07.471
I find, because everyone's driven a vehicle.
01:03:08.371 --> 01:03:11.211
Everyone's gone into a building. Everyone's flushed a toilet.
01:03:11.531 --> 01:03:13.811
You know, there's three Trades right there.
01:03:14.491 --> 01:03:19.031
And others as well, right? You know, welders welding up beams and things like
01:03:19.031 --> 01:03:21.771
that. So, yeah, there's, it's easy to draw that connection.
01:03:22.131 --> 01:03:27.351
I just wanted to say one more thing. As Eric was talking about kind of the excitement
01:03:27.351 --> 01:03:31.551
of his job where he was creating and just the joy of discovery.
01:03:31.911 --> 01:03:37.811
And I think helping faculty kind of step into that research journey,
01:03:38.211 --> 01:03:45.491
being it just scholarly teaching or SoTL, it really does. It is all about discovery and ways of...
01:03:46.011 --> 01:03:49.951
providing a more enriching student experience. So, yeah.
01:03:50.411 --> 01:03:55.191
Yeah. And the creative part is really a big part of it. For sure. Yeah.
01:03:55.531 --> 01:04:00.271
All right. Well, thank you very much, all of you, for joining me today.
01:04:00.531 --> 01:04:04.931
It's been an absolutely amazing conversation that's gone in many different directions,
01:04:04.931 --> 01:04:10.511
but very, very fascinating and so exciting to hear about the wonderful work that everyone is doing.
01:04:10.771 --> 01:04:15.551
I'll be very interested to hear about the future work that you're doing as well
01:04:15.551 --> 01:04:20.831
and some of the different collaborations, it's very inspiring to hear.
01:04:21.191 --> 01:04:23.191
Thanks, Donna. It's been a pleasure and an honour.
01:04:23.991 --> 01:04:28.031
Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you. It's been great. This has definitely helped me out.
01:04:28.351 --> 01:04:32.811
Yeah, thanks so much. This is very, very cool to connect with another school
01:04:32.811 --> 01:04:35.611
and our friends at Lethbridge Poly.
01:04:36.111 --> 01:04:40.431
This episode featured Donna McLaughlin as host and Ryan Mann,
01:04:40.811 --> 01:04:44.651
Eric Mitchell, Jaddon Park, and Craig McCarthy as guests.
01:04:45.451 --> 01:04:50.291
Jordana Gagnon was our producer. Ryan Robinson was our sound technician and editor.
01:04:51.031 --> 01:04:56.791
Special thanks to Julie Mooney, educational developer at SAIT's Centre for Teaching
01:04:56.791 --> 01:04:59.291
and Learning for connecting us with Ryan Mann.
01:04:59.791 --> 01:05:04.171
Our podcast is funded by Lethbridge Polytechnic's Centre for Teaching,
01:05:04.451 --> 01:05:09.991
Learning and Innovation and recorded on the traditional lands of the Blackfoot Confederacy.
01:05:10.351 --> 01:05:16.611
For more episodes, head to learninginnovation.ca Thanks for listening and take care.